< 1406678447 218898 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although maybe there is better way? < 1406678644 932152 :myndzi\!~myndzi@cpe-24-55-45-217.austin.res.rr.com QUIT : < 1406678693 681467 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1406678959 770340 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1406679010 191073 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406679191 333456 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all! I am in a panicking state! I'm trying to make windows boot! < 1406679206 968027 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry to hear that. < 1406679243 789210 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have creatively destroyed the EFI on a friend's machine. < 1406679254 79181 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in some very dubious and artistics maneuvers...) < 1406679519 566371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure they were also EFIcient < 1406679592 160140 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1406679839 777093 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you deserve a thorough mapole, you fiend. < 1406679907 733632 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the automated repair didn't work, rebuilding the BCD didn't work, on to the nuclear option. < 1406679943 292381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll check if blitzortung picks it up < 1406680103 53620 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lightning that far east in canada, it seems < 1406680120 230609 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :blitzortung? < 1406680147 771187 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.blitzortung.org/Webpages/index.php?lang=en&page_0=30 hth < 1406680372 686328 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdh. shiny! < 1406680433 106248 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, the EFI mystery persists. everything seems to be in the right place, I can select bootmgfw.efi from either grub or refind, but every time the machine just beeps and reboot. < 1406680441 146572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and don't forget to select the "detectors" button < 1406680627 586865 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shines with lines. < 1406681149 462317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask Deewiant elliott: So complete copies of the code for different deltas? Hasn't been done in -98 afaik. (The resulting binary size, think of the floppies!) <-- isn't that what fizzie's jit did? although i don't recall him ever finishing it. < 1406681150 20138 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1406681176 565136 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1406681789 862304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the forecast lightning here doesn't seem to be materializing. < 1406681904 836173 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the windows disc now suddenly refuses to repair windows for no apparent reason. screw me. < 1406682118 432983 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1406682233 927134 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uftflbobnyoxyejq JOIN :#esoteric < 1406682899 85034 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1406683246 259331 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1406683342 840921 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b JOIN :#esoteric < 1406683386 321002 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu NICK :ZuuGates < 1406683836 767122 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1406684266 426914 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1406684795 713665 :MoALTz_!~no@user-31-174-197-32.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1406684920 988059 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. I went the lazy way, and just installed that **** de câlisse de bâtard de **** in virtualbox. < 1406684930 224871 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to go home. I need sleep. < 1406684936 326672 :boily!~alexandre@bas1-montreal48-1096716506.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2 < 1406684966 792123 :MoALTz!~no@user-31-174-197-32.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1406686123 572191 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1406686338 128436 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1406686518 819382 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1406686674 702867 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.116.67 QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1406686701 427519 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.116.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406686819 108271 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.116.67 QUIT :Client Quit < 1406688888 407009 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1406689968 174930 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1406690046 244673 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found that someone has figured out how to do open source bitstream generation for FPGA without needing to figure out the bitstream format; it is done by making a bunch of small bitstreams for each primitive and then putting them together. http://www.isi.edu/~nsteiner/publications/soni-2013-bitstream-fccm13.pdf < 1406690111 212975 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1406690116 313931 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really sad that that had to be done, though. < 1406690144 133455 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i'm living in a proprietary world and i am a proprietary girl" < 1406690149 704244 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt that how the song goes? < 1406690278 183426 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: Holy crap! I'm on fire! < 1406690848 161239 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could possibly do it even further, by making sets of microbitstreams that have corresponding sets for different FPGA models (including different vendors), and then store them in a ROM chip, and then you can program a FPGA without ever even touching the bitstreams at all! < 1406690948 314086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo, 2000 SO rep < 1406690960 924853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that went a lot faster than the first 1000 < 1406690966 205201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott may be right < 1406691159 187398 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: might have a big efficiency cost < 1406691191 163818 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie. if fpga blocks can do function of 6 inputs, and you end up only using functions of 2 inputs as your building block < 1406691224 16909 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- didnt read the paper < 1406691366 564149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whoa, you're practically ahead of me < 1406691433 159230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you guess what people are asking for when they're unclear without pointing it out they'll just keep being unclear :'( < 1406691438 282394 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: Yes, if you want maximum compatibility, but you could have a "microbitstream archive" which contains the bitstreams and rule files to combine them and the capability files, and then if you are tuning the compilation to specific systems you can use those otherwise you could only use a portable set, I think. < 1406691499 411678 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@93-58-3-33.ip156.fastwebnet.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1406691517 579952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wait are you referring to any of my answers here < 1406691523 47168 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: upgrade < 1406691534 947152 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1406691541 909924 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be kind of rude though < 1406691582 732658 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _do_ remember that there were a number of occasions when i got the right answer long after everyone else had misinterpreted the question. < 1406691587 669584 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1406691619 498130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, since i don't visit SO _all_ the time, that's probably how i get most of the ones i get < 1406691697 503389 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well nah < 1406691709 157508 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i just remember something slightly obscure < 1406691986 123778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my _last_ answer was of course something trivial which just popped up and i couldn't resist because it would put me over 2000) < 1406692213 86767 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it would help though, if they can make up a single chip which can be compatible with the format of this: http://blog.notdot.net/2012/10/Build-your-own-FPGA < 1406693868 127577 :MoALTz!~no@user-31-174-197-32.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1406693895 917703 :skarn!skarn@unaffiliated/skarn QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1406694125 892489 :MoALTz_!~no@user-31-174-197-32.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1406695057 729807 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia NICK :nicklimitsarenin < 1406695074 932133 :nicklimitsarenin!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia NICK :quintopia < 1406698006 260387 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie said 7h 19m 18s ago: Yes, and it should output "2 3 1". (The K cells "conceptually" pushed by y are on top of the existing contents of the stack, so if the argument to y is K+N, the picked cell should be the N'th counting from the top, not bottom.) <-- fair enough, should be an easy enough fix, but I *probably* won't have time until the weekend. Have you told Deewiant about it? He mig < 1406698006 450025 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ht want to improve the test in mycology. < 1406698018 353634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did < 1406698021 521614 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1406698028 409919 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl work < 1406698063 360385 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and, this means nobody is using y for pick very much I think. Otherwise this would have been found way sooner < 1406698071 601566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1406698338 448140 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also is it still Gregor that runs HackEgo? < 1406698344 707218 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And EgoBot < 1406698362 877959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1406698433 460294 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, EgoBot's cfunge version will need updating after this is fixed < 1406698438 853321 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, bbl now, really < 1406698575 239060 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with Befunge? Spec issue, issue in popular implementations? < 1406698875 856810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue in cfunge, which mycology's test accidentally doesn't catch < 1406698944 622298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(y numbering stack elements in reverse order) < 1406698963 79016 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't catch it because the test picks the middle element of the stack < 1406699491 541224 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uftflbobnyoxyejq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1406699552 418466 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think using y for picking is kinda-sorta considered cheating by some. < 1406699676 737869 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention that it might be quite slow in unoptimilized implementations. < 1406699828 519088 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1406700767 586694 :MoALTz!~no@user-31-174-197-32.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1406701115 587210 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey < 1406701797 237447 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1406702059 155450 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan Possibly, I don't remember; fizzie would know. (But then, as you said, it was never finished, so the floppies still live.) < 1406702059 400212 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1406702640 328915 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would I know? < 1406702903 775454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the delta thing. No, jitfunge didn't do that; only the different iterations of ff, a '93 interpreter. < 1406702970 66157 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :jitfunge was a tracing jit (interpret, but also collect instruction traces while executing; then when re-encountered, compile traces with constant-propagation and such), which I consider to be a p. natural way of JITting Funge-98. < 1406703147 833954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't compile across "computed goto" kind of dynamic things (j or x with non-constant arguments and the like), but those are (a) rare and (b) can be considered to separate "basic blocks" that you can compile to native code and then connect with conditional jumps. < 1406703354 606802 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also quite a lot of not-so-hard-but-tedious bookkeeping to figure out everything that needs to be invalidated when a 'p' is executed, at least if you want to try doing it somewhat optimally. Things like tracking which traces go across which playfield cells, and treating ;;-jumps (only a p of ';' matters) and stringmode (can be fixed by modifying the pushed constant) differently. And ... < 1406703360 628846 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... tracking which wrapping traces would hit the new cell if boundaries are extended. < 1406703404 545691 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan NO (but see logs for details) < 1406703404 985350 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1406704656 966940 :skarn!skarn@binary.firrre.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1406704657 757873 :skarn!skarn@binary.firrre.com NICK :Guest95819 < 1406704806 132366 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1406704886 359929 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1406705295 215596 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1406705310 36996 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1406705744 867220 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@212.251.54.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406706003 460565 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys, can anyone on Linux (who has Python) check if this works right on Linux? https://github.com/TieSoul/Multilang < 1406706013 807168 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1406706045 684085 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1406706112 890003 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :did my message just now arrive in chat? < 1406706116 360456 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1406706116 550152 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1406706122 582683 :Guest95819!skarn@binary.firrre.com QUIT :Changing host < 1406706122 772216 :Guest95819!skarn@unaffiliated/skarn JOIN :#esoteric < 1406706123 570562 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not peak hour here < 1406706130 752694 :Guest95819!skarn@unaffiliated/skarn NICK :skarn < 1406706136 621313 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :most folk are away asleep/at work < 1406706153 522915 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will try to test your code < 1406706157 95039 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I asked because I was force-quitted < 1406706206 103138 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shell, and I'm most concerned with the directory stuff and file execution. < 1406706215 226770 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1406706217 344119 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it works cross-platform < 1406706225 797328 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i get it running, tell me commands to test < 1406706231 941147 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :dir < 1406706233 216833 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd < 1406706238 694894 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and f < 1406706245 581370 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have any files to test on < 1406706268 396308 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1406706269 997067 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1406706275 595333 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :complete commands < 1406706279 423226 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1406706295 401515 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have any brainfuck/befunge files to test on? < 1406706301 634529 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or random) < 1406706313 381448 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also can you call dir ls instead (at least alias it) < 1406706346 57361 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1406706349 893608 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll alias it < 1406706415 653622 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1406706449 144955 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you just make a file containing "!dlroW olleH"bk,@ ? < 1406706459 821480 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and save it as something.b98? < 1406706466 670664 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could test with that < 1406706672 936351 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :having nets issues on linux box hold please < 1406706774 412803 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :cloning now < 1406706826 853550 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :run Multilang.py when you're done cloning < 1406706866 814276 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i can't < 1406706871 827114 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have python 3 installed < 1406706872 961123 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1406706877 837708 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1406706904 183353 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well < 1406708543 962747 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works -- http://sprunge.us/iVBQ -- for me. < 1406708572 149261 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :First time I see a "Pascal string" in a Funge-98 hello-world, also. < 1406708632 458504 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406708688 312688 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a Pascal string? < 1406708705 843994 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gnirts"6 as opposed to 0"gnirts". < 1406708715 955701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :0a"!dlroW olleH">:#,_@ is the conventional one. < 1406708756 713674 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1406708764 948503 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though I always write 25* in place of a due to Befunge-93 roots.) < 1406709170 217849 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 19+. < 1406709335 209954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :55+ gets some use, too. < 1406709346 289702 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why I got stuck with 25*, but here we are. < 1406709775 429896 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1406709804 652090 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the department's mailing list, in a note about someone's Master's thesis presentation: "-- our meeting room has AIR CONDITIONING --" < 1406709813 652572 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's one way to ensure an audience. < 1406709879 206780 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This building in general doesn't do AC, it being considered a bit of a luxury in Finland when it was built, since it's so seldom needed here.) < 1406709891 512528 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1406709911 645529 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does the note also mention free food or drinks? < 1406710408 938049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, since we don't tend to do those at thesis presentations. If it did, they'd probably run out of space in the meeting room. < 1406711216 745485 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, and then you'd have to overflow to non-air-conditioned rooms < 1406711602 586554 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :These last few days, it has been generally 28..29°C in this office. < 1406711602 812542 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today it's only 27°C. < 1406713390 649469 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "our meeting room has a heater" < 1406713407 559201 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :soom big old lecture rooms get really cold in winter < 1406713409 176928 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*some < 1406713432 338326 :shachaf_!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1406713442 261060 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406713453 828583 :int-e_!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1406713468 890926 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :*.net *.split < 1406713469 429348 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe QUIT :*.net *.split < 1406713469 904255 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :*.net *.split < 1406713470 93704 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1406713470 93755 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :*.net *.split < 1406713482 979695 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe JOIN :#esoteric < 1406713587 181301 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@64.62.173.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406713658 183081 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Around these parts, we know about heating but not about cooling. < 1406714983 531188 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm implementing Whirl. Does Whirl use integers or floats? < 1406715079 732727 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406717332 388544 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reference implementation (in C++) has a memory made out of 'int's. I guess that's the thing to follow. < 1406717400 45715 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1406717417 383897 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking because the flash interpreter uses floats < 1406717446 746947 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was too lazy to check the other implementations < 1406718574 591058 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: GALACTIC CHICKEN < 1406720037 952439 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone JOIN :#esoteric < 1406720234 656903 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1406721052 998916 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1406721209 919951 :shachaf_!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1406721210 148455 :shachaf_!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1406721220 429064 :shachaf_!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf NICK :shachaf < 1406721458 332473 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1406721975 418750 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1406722439 819959 :impomatic_!~digital_w@167.156.125.91.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Quit: http://retroprogramming.com < 1406725754 809569 :fowl!~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1406726096 433073 :prooftechnique!~NihilistD@65-183-137-193-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1406726274 758328 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1406727574 332334 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1406727764 979862 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406727947 171657 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody wrote an interpreter with flash < 1406727950 186485 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1406727953 101293 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :how unesoteric < 1406727965 39315 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although flash < 1406727977 329073 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume Flash is a platform and the language behind it is afaik this ActionScript < 1406728139 183866 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, yes, but arguably you could still call something that depends on the platform's features to be written "in Flash". < 1406729501 76372 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to implement another esolang. Any suggestions? :P < 1406729550 4140 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :twoducks < 1406729597 487731 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :the irc esolang or snusp < 1406729795 486433 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :or zombie ^^ < 1406729828 407187 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do SNUSP < 1406729842 986464 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like multi-dimensional languages < 1406729883 854818 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@212.251.54.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1406729958 461314 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@212.251.54.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406730837 289974 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1406731604 772124 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406732454 622269 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :k, finished SNUSP (modular) < 1406732457 209574 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1406732510 66601 :spiette!~spiette@2607:fad8:4:6:a288:b4ff:fe60:a3b0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406733063 984106 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1406733523 414549 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :TieSoul: yeah snusp is easy to implement :) < 1406733545 486263 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was quite easy indeed < 1406733547 609838 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language did you use? < 1406733553 266979 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python < 1406733561 845900 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1406733563 48830 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Python for everything < 1406733641 855838 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 years ago I made a BF2Text, oklopol battled me and his implementation was awesome, also writtein in python < 1406733642 248494 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :check out https://github.com/TieSoul/Multilang. It's a shell for all languages I've written implementations of. < 1406733642 438247 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1406733675 521664 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice :) < 1406733831 828222 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :TieSoul: I've made a Chip8 Interpreter, but its in java -.-, maybe you could recycle it < 1406733843 397564 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :including an assembler *g* < 1406733944 697677 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone JOIN :#esoteric < 1406733949 931086 :fenris_kcf!~fenris@p4FFE4371.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1406734237 428805 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@212.251.54.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1406734648 354167 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@93-58-3-33.ip156.fastwebnet.it QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1406735261 199264 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :TieSoul: is this python 3? It doesn't work with python 2.7.3 < 1406735417 906053 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, it is. print(chr(s[i]), end="") < 1406735432 711189 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok thx < 1406735766 774399 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1406735839 728229 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406737387 834554 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie Just pushed a fix for that cfunge issue. < 1406737388 24519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1406737440 163031 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor You might want to update to latest cfunge trunk in EgoBot for the Befunge98 command. I fixed a bug with using y as pick counting incorrectly. < 1406737440 625549 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1406737488 325437 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :TieSoul, Latest cfunge should now work correctly for y < 1406737530 966491 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should seriously move from launchpad to bitbucket or something at some point < 1406738388 315089 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rustyfunge < 1406738392 391960 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :This should be a thing, maybe < 1406738399 826245 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1406738412 649495 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe IronFunge < 1406738426 42090 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rustyfunge better, because fungus < 1406738469 534207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iron* is C# < 1406738658 563972 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wondered about that, why Iron* for C# < 1406738676 434870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question. idk < 1406739160 455971 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406739790 175612 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 NICK :quintopia < 1406739799 442269 :quintopia!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :Changing host < 1406739799 631959 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1406739937 698887 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406739975 5971 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so the saga of "get a working copy of Visual Studio on a non-Internet connected system" continues < 1406740002 496572 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried installing Visual Studio Express 2012 (rather than 2013), which I have successfully done before via doing the registration on another computer < 1406740030 618081 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this started out fine, but the form you have to fill in to register it is not working, in the sense that the Continue button does nothing < 1406740054 524278 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no indication of any required fields missing < 1406740075 60755 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case it was a client-side scripting error, I edited the JS so that it would submit the form without validation, but the same page just reloads, again with no indication of anything I'd done wrong < 1406740124 522106 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now going to try 2010, because VS2012 Express didn't appear in the list of topics that Microsoft offer support with (maybe it's been discontinued?), but VS2010 Express did < 1406740207 802222 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't there CD-Versions of it available? < 1406740212 857164 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Did you mean microsoft visual studio express 2020?" < 1406740215 804532 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I'm using the CD versions < 1406740224 198424 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they nonetheless require registration over the Internet < 1406740236 995317 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though Microsoft specifically say that registration is optional, apparently Visual Studio doesn't follow the same rules < 1406740297 230568 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :searching Microsoft's search engine for VS2010 failed, but DuckDuckGo found within one link of the appropriate page < 1406740301 555112 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see what happens here < 1406740381 142099 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft don't even give a sensible method of reporting that their website is broken < 1406740396 433609 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1406740406 411162 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, VS2010 is advertised as using the same registration method as VS2012, so in theory it should work unless the website is broken in the same way for both products < 1406740413 642291 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, fewer allcaps in the menu, which has to help < 1406740420 215380 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, looks like it prompts for registration even if you download the offline version < 1406740426 178437 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a sham. < 1406740428 907103 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shame < 1406740432 709680 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says that before you download < 1406740444 146460 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not malicious or misleading, just stupid < 1406740457 598868 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft must really want that marketing data < 1406740592 944846 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Microsoft discontinued support for VS 2012 Express because they thought nobody was using it because they got no new registrations < 1406740625 306123 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that broken button (which must be broken for everyone, seeing as the mistake seems to be server-side) affects not just my unusual setup, but the most common setup for VS2012 Express < 1406740686 449353 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1406740738 182467 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I use 2010 Ultimate from MSDNAA. Can't you get something like that too? I thought you worked at a university even < 1406740756 391314 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but I won't necessarily be here forever < 1406740764 532651 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, those licenses don't expire < 1406740776 381406 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they have limitations for academic use only, though, or whatever < 1406740776 839476 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some non-commercial clauses and such but that is it < 1406740788 240725 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, non-commercial. But I thought Express had that too? < 1406740804 31034 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Express actually has a business option although it's meant to be for evaluation only < 1406740819 268899 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the limitation really is "noncommercial" only, that's possibly good enough for me < 1406740831 32160 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really I prefer to do things in a way that other people can reproduce < 1406740833 703881 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, pretty sure that is the case < 1406740847 431957 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, anyway, even if it wasn't, who would ever know? < 1406740874 45486 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is not the approach I have towards the law < 1406740880 95258 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1406740908 836438 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, It seems like a minor detail though in this case. I'm not suggesting using that as an argument for murder! < 1406740921 953733 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err argument is wrong English word < 1406740932 614509 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse? < 1406740956 257993 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :reason? < 1406740976 778889 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, in general, I have a policy that companies that put ridiculous restrictions on their customers should have to live with the effects of their own policies < 1406740984 469943 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, licenses generally < 1406740990 345632 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1406741038 890060 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, What would you think about a static analysis tool evaluation version that limited the number of results you opened by double clicking on the result (or right clicking and selecting goto). But listed file and line number in the result < 1406741057 37089 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you just continue using it and opening the file manually? < 1406741077 377905 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a reduced-feature version of software < 1406741079 283503 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, This is not a theoretical question btw, there really is such a piece of software < 1406741087 476652 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1406741090 650768 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was clear that the developer was happy with people using the reduced-feature version indefinitely, I'd be fine with it < 1406741099 576855 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, if it wasn't clear? < 1406741105 199173 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'd probably avoid it < 1406741115 267378 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1406741130 869792 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I prefer to avoid closed-source software generally because it is so hard to fix bugs in it < 1406741153 349375 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah < 1406741168 609974 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the thing that immediately started all this off was "open-source software which I want to fix a bug in but it only compiles in Visual Studio", but that's a distant goal now; I'm just trying to get Visual Studio installed at all, mostly to see if I can get aimake to work with it) < 1406741174 685146 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I fixed a bug in a compiled binary today though < 1406741183 121847 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :via hex editing? < 1406741212 37061 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, via hte, (debian package ht) which is somewhat smart hex editing, showing the disassembly live while editing and such < 1406741219 531464 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and tracing jumps and what not) < 1406741238 110461 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, it was looking for kernel major = 2 && minor > some-number-I-forgot < 1406741241 299157 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a 3.x kernel < 1406741260 358717 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I adjusted the jump to basically kill the check < 1406741268 88666 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, that mistake < 1406741287 917489 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is apparently why Windows 7 gives its version number as 6.1 if requested via the version number API < 1406741294 451997 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that programs checking for major = 6 don't break < 1406741304 551127 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, also setarch --uname-2.6 didn't work, since it read /proc/sys/kernel/osrelease < 1406741314 735145 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 7 is pretty similar to Vista (6.0) bfrom a developer's point of view < 1406741358 459005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :major/minor numbers for ABI type things are just a mistake. < 1406741364 521823 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I dislike Visual Studio for being excessively complicated, among other things < 1406741374 842023 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, the tool is part of Intel Parallel Studio's tool to inject static analysis by wrapping your build system and recording compiled files < 1406741382 263630 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :You thought intel would get it right... < 1406741408 537960 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yep < 1406741423 839096 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, When intellisense works properly it is pretty nice < 1406741429 877310 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work well for C++ at all though < 1406741436 74589 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really what I was talking about < 1406741443 586550 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1406741449 173383 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with that sort of feature existing, and it is very helpful for Java and C# < 1406741460 64000 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking more of the build system interface < 1406741463 771419 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, we use Visual Studio at work, but we disabled intelisense and use a separate third party add-on for better intelisense < 1406741474 918442 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :InteliSense for non-.NET just sucks < 1406741490 460711 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in the older version of VS that we have < 1406741525 433295 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, oh god the property sheet hell indeed < 1406741539 466034 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, we are moving to a cmake-based system at work to get rid of that < 1406741555 167937 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also in the longer term we are moving to linux as well) < 1406741670 142967 :conehead!~conehead@67.10.235.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406741678 198745 :conehead!~conehead@67.10.235.179 QUIT :Changing host < 1406741678 388132 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1406741701 126373 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, another thing I'd be happy with would be to download a time-unlimited copy of the command-line compiler < 1406741707 137640 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just use msbuild or aimake or something as glue < 1406741719 386486 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Microsoft doesn't support that any more either, they made it part of Visual Studio < 1406741908 225381 :maurer!~maurer@MIMUNG.ECE.CMU.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what static analysis tool is this? < 1406741937 624546 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :maurer, the one that had that evaluation thing? < 1406741963 568920 :maurer!~maurer@MIMUNG.ECE.CMU.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1406741964 646583 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :maurer, a Windows-only tool that integrates with Visual Studio called "PVS Studio". It is okay. < 1406741972 552103 :maurer!~maurer@MIMUNG.ECE.CMU.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK < 1406741975 730472 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I've heard of that, but don't know what it does < 1406741979 26214 :maurer!~maurer@MIMUNG.ECE.CMU.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a binary static analysis thing < 1406741982 107595 :maurer!~maurer@MIMUNG.ECE.CMU.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes back to his corner
< 1406741984 541406 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, source code < 1406742033 317791 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not too many false positives in my experience. Lint is pretty useless for example unless you use it from the get-go < 1406742092 723792 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :splint is worse, because AFAICT it's too buggy to be useful < 1406742114 636288 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found very minor, meaning-preserving changes to programs which would completely change its output < 1406742160 775315 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1406742255 569028 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys < 1406742595 627444 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, yes splint is useless < 1406742606 356264 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, the clang static analysis is pretty nice too, but rather limited < 1406742614 22608 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting better every version though < 1406742623 905197 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've wanted a "splint done properly" for a while, but then Mozilla went and invented Rust < 1406742644 176525 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which looks pretty close to that, except better in every respect except it isn't a subset of C (which is only arguably an advantage) < 1406742683 2646 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, Try clang static analysis, it can find rather complex control flows leading to an error. I have seen it detect an error that happens after 30 steps of control flow < 1406742727 348974 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried it myself, but apparently another NH4 developer runs it every now and again < 1406742737 353343 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1406742830 927427 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1406742860 832287 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, The intel one is nice too. When it doesn't check the kernel version that is ;P < 1406742898 846679 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so apparently attempting to use system restore to uninstall Visual Studio (because installing versions of software out-of-order tends to cause DLL problems), it now won't boot; the loading screen finishes, then there's a black screen rather than the login screen which doesn't respond to input and has no mouse cursor < 1406742946 299336 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION force-reboots twice to get the repair screen to come up
< 1406742985 549469 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, ouch < 1406742998 877275 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There was a problem with refreshing your PC. No changes were made." < 1406743009 313307 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, so uninstall didn't work? < 1406743011 617801 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch < 1406743046 172187 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try another System Restore to an earlier restore point < 1406743173 906349 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, do you have a proper backup? < 1406743179 430553 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would likely work better < 1406743203 219015 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of all my files as of recently, yes; for Windows itself, there's just the recovery partition < 1406743207 369650 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I fear it might uninstall Linux < 1406743216 786767 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't keep files I care about on the Windows side < 1406743237 850329 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I meant like a disk image to overwrite windows with < 1406744097 277439 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, well the system restore just got stuck on "Initialising..." < 1406744199 722744 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know what the Windows Event Viewer is called from the command line? I got to a working command line < 1406744300 46217 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I have two drives, X: and C: < 1406744308 748940 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seem similar but not identical < 1406744333 914163 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if I try to load files from C:, it sometimes looks in X: and then says they aren't there < 1406744339 444103 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a /very/ good argument for text-based log formats < 1406744393 870017 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, X: seems reminiscent of an initramfs or the like < 1406744406 322439 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has the directory structure I'd expect for C:, but a different set of programs and no user data < 1406744516 281980 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts a "System Restore Undo"
< 1406744532 25677 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems slightly more promising, in that it shows no signs of having got stuck yet < 1406744609 254585 :int-e_!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de NICK :int-e < 1406744972 957001 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"System Restore failed while restoring the registry from the restore point. An unspecified error occurred during System Restore. (0x80070002) < 1406745314 906336 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais < 1406745658 469848 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1406745667 425786 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ended up making Windows unbootable trying to get a working Visual Studio < 1406745683 549534 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is a corrupted registry < 1406745689 105476 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's only a very wild guess < 1406745971 698631 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was ambivalent towards the registry but now I am close to certain that it's a bad idea < 1406746070 829898 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, I have a thoguht < 1406746088 838185 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the minimum number of files in /etc for which a standard Linux distribution (Ubuntu, etc.) can boot with full functionality? < 1406746140 272327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :define full functionality < 1406746182 249409 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a typical user would assume that it was merely an uncustomized / weirdly-configured system, rather than a cut-down system < 1406746315 114013 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start-up Repair couldn't repair your PC < 1406746331 217839 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Press "Advanced options" to try other options to repair your PC, or "Shut down" to turn off your PC. < 1406746344 755887 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Log file: C:\Windows\System32\Logfiles\Srt\SrtTrail.txt < 1406746353 21365 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I now have a log file that might give a clue about what the problem is < 1406746443 339342 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Root cause found: Unspecified changes to system configuration might have caused the problem." < 1406746483 769149 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it tried to fix it via "", "System Restore", and "System files integrity check and repair", which failed with error codes 0x32, 0x1f, and 0x490 respectively. < 1406746576 162687 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux side still works < 1406746618 892681 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a backup/reinstall may be a worthwhile thing to try < 1406746748 938682 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I wanted to ask something < 1406746757 249567 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to ask it < 1406746767 392626 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no backup/reinstall for me now, anyway, because I don't have backup media handy < 1406746795 336524 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I borrowed a book on formal languages but it's not on the topic I need < 1406746831 235432 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a book that tells more about parsers for context-free languages, like LR parsers and modified variants of it < 1406746841 587714 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you recommend a book? < 1406746849 964614 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone on this channel had recommended Alfred V. Aho, < 1406746858 364942 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeffrey D. Ullman., "The theory of parsing, translation, and compiling" < 1406746878 823087 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I haven't borrowed yet because it's summer and libraries are mostly closed, but I will probablytry < 1406746892 874445 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you might be able to recommend something too < 1406747023 622251 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I learned it from a book by Bornat called something like "understanding and writing compilers", but I can't remember the exact name < 1406747030 184750 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was quite a good book, if very old < 1406747082 204522 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the record, other possible books suggested were Alfred Vaino Aho et al, "Compilers, principles, techniques, and tools"; and Charles N. Fisher, Richard J. LeBlanc, Jr., "Crafting a compiler with C") < 1406747107 486904 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Bornat... let me search that < 1406747125 3058 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.eis.mdx.ac.uk/staffpages/r_bornat/ has a pdf < 1406747149 225693 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: thanks < 1406747169 972424 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: claims to, but it appears to be a broken link < 1406747182 10585 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no < 1406747182 674916 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :?! < 1406747183 274327 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: v @ ? . < 1406747184 532577 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for me < 1406747194 596473 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a section link to a section that's so near the bottom of the page that no scroll is involved < 1406747238 5712 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks about right < 1406747239 586614 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: seems to work for me < 1406747252 367901 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the paper version was better formatted than the PDF, I doubt b_jonas will care about that that much < 1406747301 875093 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I do care about the formatting, but I'll still look at the pdf first to tell if this is the book I need, and will likely read it if the paper book is not available < 1406747806 434543 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh argh < 1406747824 2186 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1406747825 949959 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought for a minute the book was available in a library, but no, it's a completely different maths book by the same author < 1406747830 644253 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity < 1406747845 370182 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. unfortunate < 1406748136 319184 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to read some of this pdf later when I'm less tired. It seems terse but useful. < 1406748142 90994 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_ and int-e: thanks for the hint < 1406748589 396779 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1406749365 858480 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1406749782 110614 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406749786 381090 :vifino!~vifino@ip-37-24-78-77.hsi14.unitymediagroup.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1406750313 430699 :vifino!~vifino@ip-37-24-78-77.hsi14.unitymediagroup.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt there a bot that allows shell execution? < 1406750365 335282 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run yes no < 1406750372 717785 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's not here. < 1406750390 941892 :vifino!~vifino@ip-37-24-78-77.hsi14.unitymediagroup.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how that worked < 1406750406 66070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UML < 1406750422 797133 :vifino!~vifino@ip-37-24-78-77.hsi14.unitymediagroup.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1406750428 204890 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :user-mode linux. < 1406750452 962945 :vifino!~vifino@ip-37-24-78-77.hsi14.unitymediagroup.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1406750484 730042 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that comment is more fun if you interpret it as referring to unified modelling language < 1406750545 624890 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about: the communist party of nepal < 1406750844 846999 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1406750875 724759 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406750879 808074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. < 1406750892 541969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again with the not rejoining automatically. < 1406750978 167732 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`man splain < 1406750978 915933 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config < 1406751275 240679 :vifino!~vifino@ip-37-24-78-77.hsi14.unitymediagroup.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "test" < 1406751276 77344 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1406751285 816784 :vifino!~vifino@ip-37-24-78-77.hsi14.unitymediagroup.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sauce < 1406751286 460898 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sauce: not found < 1406751290 331826 :vifino!~vifino@ip-37-24-78-77.hsi14.unitymediagroup.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`source < 1406751291 22817 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: source: not found < 1406751294 177703 :vifino!~vifino@ip-37-24-78-77.hsi14.unitymediagroup.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1406751465 180040 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :See https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot < 1406752429 944106 :not^v!~notnot^v@198.109.114.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406753143 337273 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07SYCPOL14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40225&oldid=40162 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (-2) 10/* (categories) */ unimplemented ➡ implemented < 1406753188 163133 :fenris_kcf!~fenris@p4FFE4371.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PART #esoteric :"ISON NickServ " < 1406754393 910399 :not^v!~notnot^v@198.109.114.66 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1406754733 2460 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Nucular 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Nyan.png10]]" < 1406754760 16166 :impomatic_!~digital_w@167.156.125.91.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1406755012 622979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are pop tarts in the public domain < 1406755163 556664 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BytePusher14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40227&oldid=39219 5* 03Nucular 5* (+313) 10New program: Nyan Cat < 1406755262 415037 :prooftechnique!~NihilistD@65-183-137-193-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net QUIT :Quit: return () < 1406757165 832055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1406757683 30872 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406757977 988848 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr JOIN :#esoteric < 1406758127 34913 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1406758180 799564 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr JOIN :#esoteric < 1406758411 989981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-look < 1406758412 564825 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant said 15h 39m 13s ago: Possibly, I don't remember; fizzie would know. (But then, as you said, it was never finished, so the floppies still live.) < 1406758412 791943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said 15h 16m 47s ago: NO (but see logs for details) < 1406758654 446264 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello fellas < 1406758668 573410 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome imp9 < 1406758669 233871 :not^v!~notnot^v@198.109.114.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406758669 644777 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​04imp9: 07Welcome 08to 09the 02international 06hub 13for 04esoteric 07programming 08language 09design 02and 06deployment! 13For 04more 07information, 08check 09out 02our 06wiki: 13. 04(For 07the 08other 09kind 02of 06esoterica, 13try 04#esoteric 07on 08irc.dal.net.) < 1406758733 509941 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i apparently entered the wrong room < 1406758739 455328 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a newbie to the max < 1406758745 855544 :not^v!~notnot^v@198.109.114.66 NICK :^4 < 1406758759 2059 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :but while I'm here may I bother some of you guys with some pretty asinine questions regarding programming < 1406758762 121999 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not the first < 1406758787 133801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh _that_ you're in the right channel for. well if the questions are crazy enough. < 1406758804 155037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are unusual in that you have decided to shift gears to programming rather than leaving, though :P < 1406758823 709642 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i am a computer technician by education but my education is prepostrous and lately i've realized how much lacking I am in IT department < 1406758825 602744 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he didn't say which channel he _meant_ to join < 1406758835 669479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh, sorry, this isn't ##php" < 1406758846 767296 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :years of switching from IT to graphic design brought me to a place where I don't know what github even is < 1406758848 255041 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1406758858 332111 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I fire couple questions, please? < 1406758864 353442 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a hub for gits, of course < 1406758873 239818 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloody gits < 1406758876 259903 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasty buggers < 1406758879 947014 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously fellas < 1406758892 599758 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll start with the asinine question #1 < 1406758903 66576 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :may I? < 1406758930 169878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. let's hope that the non-fellas in the channel aren't the ones who have the answers you sek < 1406758960 344933 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know any programming, apart from some basic level CSS...if you can call that "programming".....so I need to start from the ground up. my question is - how the hell people know how to program < 1406758962 484410 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :bare with me < 1406758967 615806 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do they know how to talk to computer < 1406758982 215136 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, computer! < 1406758988 733844 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example Quake is my favorite game (peep my nick) and I've saw a Carmack documentary yesterday < 1406759000 246519 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the fuck does Carmack know how to WRITE a damn engine from scratch? < 1406759016 744784 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you write...a game engine from notepad.txt (figuratively speaking) < 1406759023 86898 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :by having done it multiple times before, in his case < 1406759023 831249 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't wrap my mind aroudn that. < 1406759054 691483 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :few people can. it's too big, start smaller. much smaller. < 1406759055 440842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by writing a bunch of calls to the operating system's graphics APIs and a bunch of math for the 3D computations. < 1406759062 941348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :broadly speaking. < 1406759079 896964 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that imply that Carmack in this example is a mathematical genius? < 1406759118 268843 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :does he "see" the code that he writes, for example if someone writes HTML and CSS without even checking the browser? < 1406759153 743801 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an experienced programmer tries to write code without checking it at all on a computer, they'll make a bunch of mistakes, ranging from stupid to subtle < 1406759160 319718 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the code will normally be approximately right < 1406759169 560344 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok but let me go one step back < 1406759189 152477 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :carmack is pretty good at math. he mostly talks about haskell and oculus rift nowadays. < 1406759197 492953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he tests it a lot and writes it incrementally < 1406759200 846364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't write a game engine all in one go. < 1406759206 465863 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :who made the language? if carmack for exampel used command "bind X bind Y" (im rambling obviously) - how does my computer KNOW what that means? how does it interpret that? < 1406759209 704001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write little parts of a game engine until thy work and then wire them all together. < 1406759224 844963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's another program that tells the computer what it means. < 1406759225 121049 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best I can describe is that as you learn programming, you assemble larger and larger building blocks (while also remembering how to make those from smaller parts - that's what you have to do when programming from the ground up). No programmer will get anything done by thinking about individual statements in isolation. < 1406759235 593705 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imp9: programming languages are written in terms of other languages, going back through history; eventually you reach machine code, which the processor is designed to understand when it's made < 1406759241 742291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :either by turning it into the computer's native machine code, or by being a program that interprets it as it goes. < 1406759247 131189 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I believe every programmer has started on that level. < 1406759260 786794 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is some heavy philosophical shit fellas, i'm excited reading this you don't even know it < 1406759266 621512 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, programming is about writing complex things in terms of simpler things < 1406759272 928256 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :imp9: don't overdo it < 1406759275 51167 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Quake existed when the first computer was made < 1406759282 145854 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1406759283 301071 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody knew the "code" how to make it < 1406759284 445554 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1406759289 806568 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok sorry i got ahead of myself :D < 1406759291 25213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're a platonist... < 1406759296 999633 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quake couldn't have been written on the first computer, but only because it wasn't powerful enough to run it < 1406759297 288456 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah well fuck plato. < 1406759313 367786 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais but hypothetically if it were powerful enough < 1406759314 599053 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you took the first computer ever and scaled it up and made it faster, you could write Quake on that < 1406759318 757698 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a concrete version of how knowledge works elsewhere. i could talk to you about dendritic spines for hours but it wouldn't mean shit to you without some basic neuro knowhow. < 1406759320 430860 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my philosophy. software is created, not discovered. < 1406759339 731371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if quake did not exist, it would be necessary to invent it -- neechy, 1684 < 1406759339 961565 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably nobody would have thought of it at the time < 1406759340 435010 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok lets go further a bit < 1406759346 245820 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :when people say "Carmack wrote" < 1406759357 767400 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they mean it in the same when as "Jobs made Apple" < 1406759361 816223 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they generalize < 1406759368 307573 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did Carmack did it himself < 1406759369 322283 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :alone < 1406759372 162118 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally alone < 1406759372 353604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write a 3D engine by yourself. < 1406759376 570370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :carmack definitely could. < 1406759381 313510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether he did it entirely himself or not. < 1406759384 549491 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Carmack did all of Quake alone, but it's certainly possible for one person to do most of that < 1406759393 542076 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is he did most of it but someone else did the graphics < 1406759400 901378 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be pretty impressive to write a book on your own too, but not impossible < 1406759403 815216 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rare to get someone who's good both at programmign and at 3D modelling < 1406759421 854179 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Michael Abrash was involved in the engine part of Quake. He wrote a book about it. < 1406759428 383879 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks int < 1406759433 658323 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole id era fascinates me < 1406759443 860447 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to romanticize that era of computing < 1406759448 954667 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming doesn't scale so well, two people will not work twice as fast as one person < 1406759454 972050 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :being born in 84 thats pretty obvious < 1406759478 338575 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although 100 people will collectively work much faster than 1 person if the task is easy to split up and well defined and they aren't brought onto the project at the last minute < 1406759491 950593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mythical fella-month < 1406759501 488267 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ah, but this is not purely about productivity, it's about having the right ideas. < 1406759508 718442 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1406759517 741344 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, historically idea people tend to overestimate how important they are < 1406759522 251011 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1406759522 902112 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideas are important though < 1406759561 358455 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just to make sure I'm getting it right < 1406759568 754081 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :every movement on the screen in Quake, or any videogame < 1406759573 494463 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :every single move < 1406759575 613622 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :was coded < 1406759581 949870 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :with layered graphics < 1406759583 685696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to press enter every few words. < 1406759583 875271 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top < 1406759587 382715 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imp9: you code patterns < 1406759590 147362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's layered graphics? < 1406759596 871355 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you don't write separate code for moving left and for moving right < 1406759620 724137 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write code for moving horizontally, which will be the same for left and right just with the signs flipped (i.e. you use positive for left, negative for right, or the other way round) < 1406759627 346485 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :slapped on top of the polygons that were made "alive" by programming? or am I misinterpreting something? < 1406759637 171807 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then code for moving forward and backward will be slightly more different, but still quite similar < 1406759638 32811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but you're not making much sense. < 1406759645 721413 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Of course they both implemented their own ideas, too. < 1406759646 449262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the philosophising is helping you here :p < 1406759658 646036 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can I make sense I don't know what code is :D < 1406759674 519201 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the code I ever wrote aside the css shit, was in elementary < 1406759685 700152 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had Logo 4.0 in computer class and I drew with the turtle < 1406759690 214871 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let code = fix ((0:) . scanl (+) 1) in code < 1406759692 151902 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,... < 1406759707 302302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :logo is a pretty sophisticated programming language underneath < 1406759710 787763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a lisp dialect) < 1406759721 25146 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes but most of the intro classes don't bother with the actual programming part of it :-( < 1406759758 65964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I used logo as an excuse to do actual programming, once. just wrote straight up recursive numeric code in it with not a single draw call. didn't bother saying I knew how to program, just showed it off < 1406759764 674126 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :over here, they start new programmers on a turtle graphics library which doesn't have complex lisp stuff underneath < 1406759776 269899 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just repeat-n-times loops and nonrecursive functions < 1406759788 78228 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is still enough power to make the point, but really really weak < 1406759789 536697 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. a sequence of move/draw/turn instructions isn't really programming. but you can easily use loops, recursion, etc. < 1406759790 888393 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I need to go < 1406759796 951154 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1406759801 40928 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais what? you serious? they really start programming teachings with logo in 2014? < 1406759820 529914 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not?\ < 1406759836 302327 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives immediate satisfaction (pictures), and it's an ok language < 1406759873 925266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :logo is one of the best languages I can think of to start with < 1406759876 700908 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the end, the programming language itself is not important, it's the concepts beneath. statements, loops, functions. < 1406759879 670364 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought that C++ was the only language "real programmers" use < 1406759887 986429 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah that's dumb < 1406759895 562499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not true and besides beginning programmers don't need to be saddled with real-world practical bullshit < 1406759899 549198 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :real programmers use snobol exclusively < 1406759944 707419 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ isn't even that popular anymore. Not that C# or Java are so much nicer ... (and let's forget about PHP) < 1406759961 562225 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok but I must retract guys, you are obviously well versed in this while I'm obviously not. who made the machine code, the bare essence? does anyone have the example how does that language look like? < 1406759988 509958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like a bunch of bytes. < 1406759993 864874 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably missing the entire concept because I was born and raised on GUI and WYSIWYG so that's how my brain works...I did use DOS, but for games only so that doesn't count. < 1406760009 445050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write assembly which has a bunch of text mnemonics for the basic instructions and they get turned into the raw encoded instruction bytes. < 1406760012 872457 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The machine code is a bunch of high and low voltages (or is it high and low something else?) It's interpreted by the CPU, via ... I guess transistors encoded by doping silicon in certain ways < 1406760014 733560 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a sure recipe for indygestion < 1406760021 271259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs because the people at intel made hardware which reads those bytes and then acts accordingly. < 1406760037 410781 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't help faux philosophize when I read that < 1406760042 260659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell. < 1406760051 201369 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that means that there are so many gems of software in my computer here < 1406760056 865502 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :only I can't decode them LOL < 1406760066 355154 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't make them work, but someone will, at some point. < 1406760072 299295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. < 1406760078 658403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what you mean by that, but it seems to please you, so yes. < 1406760088 833560 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cmon man, I'm not that unreasonable. < 1406760098 63107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure! I just don't know what you mean. < 1406760110 325684 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :imp9: I think the appropriate term is "incoherent" < 1406760117 710641 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :encoded transistors, huh < 1406760128 154185 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of piano. that's just keys. I can walk to a piano and hideous noise will come out if I try to play it. but someone, with the right knowledge, will make beautiful melody. and it's the same exact piano. < 1406760132 745982 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :little does sgeo realize that i play #esoteric on my reverseable crabputer < 1406760163 291259 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about reversible computation to understand how that would falsify what I said < 1406760165 449996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the CPU is the piano here and the beautiful melody is a program that actually works, then sure, I guess. < 1406760166 431442 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I mean, the keys on the piano are just sitting there < 1406760176 426293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. yes they are. < 1406760184 468357 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an ascii art of a llizard (don't ask) sitting at a piano, asking "So... which button do I press to get this thing going?" < 1406760191 874913 :ZuuGates!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu NICK :ZuuTorvalds < 1406760192 99894 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :D < 1406760204 989984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keys are all yours, imp9. welcome to your new home < 1406760209 511433 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1406760211 915017 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there are no transistors in my crabputer < 1406760216 913875 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is made out of crabs < 1406760217 326549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, do you know a guy called itidus20? < 1406760224 470050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd get along well < 1406760226 133415 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :who, me? < 1406760231 212423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1406760231 905927 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I insstalled xchat 2 days ago < 1406760237 983822 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming is easier than playing the piano. you can take all the time you want. < 1406760238 314614 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly well acquianted on IRC < 1406760248 152149 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you could do reverseable computing with transistors though < 1406760257 926570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: not a fan of john cage, I take it < 1406760258 665109 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of don't want to remember CMOS enough to be sure < 1406760261 401016 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: programming may be more like composing music for a pinao < 1406760263 312350 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :piano < 1406760279 295406 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can take all the time you want with that too. Playing would be more like... manual interpretation? < 1406760289 730974 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that analogy is good too, yea < 1406760294 838693 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: even with 4'37" the timing is of utmost importance < 1406760301 649780 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 33" < 1406760307 779819 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1406760315 615282 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should've googles < 1406760316 351075 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1406760317 218878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: the extended mix is so much better. < 1406760327 829024 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking you these questions because I fell into career crisis lately and when I see what am I missing and how many things I don't know about, it makes my head hurt < 1406760328 654676 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imp9: but with computers, you would get the piano to play the sheet music by itself. Or get the piano to turn the sheet music into a different kind of sheet music that the piano could play by itself. < 1406760342 330270 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i prefer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6ZRKfZ-eHk < 1406760345 906003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: see, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_Slow_as_Possible < 1406760368 515788 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Damn, now I'm imagining the cacophony of playing the source code of, say, Firefox ;-) < 1406760371 354936 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :imp9: some of the people involved in inventing the basic ideas used for computing were geniuses by all measures. like von neumann who got the idea of putting the program of a computer in the same memory as its data. that would have been one of the first machine codes. < 1406760403 988431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkp376ZcToc < 1406760419 841765 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :god what the fuck is nightcore < 1406760423 174573 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it something to do with anime < 1406760433 596730 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :these damn computers man....I mean I'm desensitized by em, everyone is, people are just using them like owens, and they're the greatest damn tools ever made on earth < 1406760434 688228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's exactly like regular core but at night < 1406760439 257820 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1406760454 800933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :owens?? < 1406760455 584229 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :good god my father played with clay cowboys and indians and here we are now 50 years later... < 1406760475 226816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers very existed in 1964 < 1406760481 463718 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: sped up and modified music. Often associated with anime-ish women because who knows < 1406760485 930719 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :figuratively 50 years ago :) < 1406760503 265392 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google... "Nightcore is the glorified term to describe the style of speeding up Eurodance, Hands Up and Trance, emerged in the mid 2000s[12] on YouTube. It is characterized by a tempo of between 160 and 180 beats per minute[13] with high-pitched vocal. It is originated by the Norwegian DJ duo of the same name back in 2002" < 1406760509 845677 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, thanks, but no thanks. < 1406760515 828320 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :glorified < 1406760519 818429 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :feeling the glorty here < 1406760541 829941 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(source: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/subcultures/nightcore ) < 1406760554 656197 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :night of the long cores < 1406760570 691269 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ nightcore, dear lord who listen to this at home haha < 1406760575 791737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anime-ish? < 1406760583 600815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"she's only, like, 46% anime" < 1406760598 729504 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is music for people who see 256 colors < 1406760684 46624 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can someone learn to program without formal education? < 1406760690 104889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1406760690 513977 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : [...] when I see what am I missing and how many things I don't know about, it makes my head hurt <-- that applies to everyone, no matter what they are doing. no exceptions. < 1406760696 865629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I self-taught programming starting at 8. < 1406760715 415084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also quit formal education in general not too long after that.) < 1406760727 53315 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm old as hell I feel I could never catch up < 1406760738 492923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old? < 1406760744 739453 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :bout to turn 30 soon < 1406760751 573030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not old. oerjan is way older than you. < 1406760762 336112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even fizzie is older than you, I think. (did he ever turn 30?) < 1406760780 517888 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I need to catch up....my skills now have no intrinsic value < 1406760788 113874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you were in your 40s or 50s then the programming job market might be less friendly to you, sure. < 1406760803 160494 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1406760803 626868 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1406760810 691871 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck graphic design, it's replacable, unless you're Jon Ive level deeply embedded in a corporation like Apple, you're just a material < 1406760812 190120 :metasepia!~metasepia@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1406760846 712988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've had a guy here who was even older than me. that cobol guy, btiggins or whatever. < 1406760849 316411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most programmers are fungible, too. < 1406760855 890618 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that programming is any different. < 1406760859 107609 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody values my work and I'm sick of having presenting it to clients who tell me "oh let me get back when my wife says what she thinks about it" < 1406760863 332365 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1406760874 381112 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you deploy a program, nobody's wife will make suggestions < 1406760883 304647 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :"can you please clean up that last part of code, that would be sweet" < 1406760885 542062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they will. < 1406760895 106702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're telling programmers you know more about what programming is like than them...? < 1406760904 878374 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no ... sorry not trying to be like that < 1406760918 508538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an lot of professional programming is just collaborative doing what you're told. like most professional things < 1406760965 931790 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't be about colors, but you will get bug reports, feature requests, complaints that your software is stupid and claims that 6 year olds write better code than you do. < 1406760971 665008 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok not trying to argue that...but if you go freelance as a programmer...I think you are way more valued than someone like me who does graphics < 1406760993 543122 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everyone and their momma thinks they know graphics, or photography, or any other similar prostituted artform of the new millenium < 1406761010 225271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're a contractor, then you're still doing what people tell you to do. < 1406761022 408124 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why isn't this working?" "That's what you told us it should do" <--paraphrase of conversations that have occured way too often < 1406761030 22058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to program something off the top of your head and get rich off it, well, you can make an iPhone game and get lucky or something. < 1406761047 126746 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm honestly not thinking about money < 1406761049 638328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming is more invisible than graphic design anyway. < 1406761053 498077 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :just my values, my skillset < 1406761062 885913 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes thats true but programming is everything < 1406761067 583773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everonye can see that a graphic designer makes pretty things with their skill < 1406761068 758907 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not when there are highly visible bugs, it's not invisible < 1406761075 977947 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol sgeo < 1406761092 841238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not invisible when software just works either, but people don't think about the programming that goes into things usually. < 1406761116 30605 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why programmers can have better rates, i think that's obvious < 1406761127 6870 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can find graphic designer right now if you look outside your window < 1406761132 257551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that. < 1406761175 53856 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside my window is trees and dead rabbits < 1406761189 649480 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1406761203 949094 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :if those rabbits were alive man... :D < 1406761211 799359 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :imp9: you might find http://worrydream.com/MagicInk/ interesting < 1406761241 110097 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a behemoth article, what's the scoop, what's it about? < 1406761252 294602 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts with an abstract < 1406761308 284216 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to me as a programmer, it's about how programmers produce bad user interfaces because they are not thinking about information like normal people. < 1406761340 989340 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how graphic designers ought to help them out. < 1406761350 88456 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is all about collaborations, synthesis and all that...Jobs and Woz, Gates and Allen, Carmack and Romero etc :D < 1406761373 284983 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of those fellas would be anything if they went DIY route < 1406761379 547004 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :they would probably all be bums < 1406761404 468557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really are like itidus. < 1406761432 744260 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's that man and why am I being occused of being him? < 1406761443 67304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say you are him. just you're alike. < 1406761453 881790 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever considered exhibiting a matrix of solidity < 1406761454 829457 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :run a check on me, I'm a douche from croatia europe wandering about things I know nothing about haha < 1406761460 962411 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :a what? < 1406761472 826220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway attributing programs, or things in general, to the work of single geniuses is generally not a great way at looking at entire subjects, or history in general. < 1406761473 29139 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a matrix of solidity < 1406761514 670575 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you mean bike, and I've googled that term with no direct results so... *kanye shrug* < 1406761525 214108 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck matrix of solidity < 1406761525 863327 :metasepia!~metasepia@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- No relevant information < 1406761535 160769 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot I just watched Pirates of Silicon Valley few days ago - and I can only agree < 1406761541 985515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man_theory and so on. < 1406761555 852437 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Movieposterposv.jpg oh jesus. < 1406761573 340754 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this "winners write the history books" type of theory? < 1406761581 298349 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an obvious one, ain't it < 1406761586 503354 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1406761600 37909 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "history is driven by a bunch of single dudes and i do mean dudes who are magically awesome" < 1406761613 271903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's talking about jobs and woz and gates and allen and garmack and romero like they're the only people on earth involved in making the things they're famous for < 1406761643 153679 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is about everyone at ID, if we're talkin about Quake < 1406761656 592090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we? I can't even tell any more. < 1406761658 353790 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it cannot be denied that, in this case, Carmack pulled the most weight < 1406761666 816838 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was the Michael Jordan of ID < 1406761667 264107 :^4!~notnot^v@198.109.114.66 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1406761682 864212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not a comparison I would have thought of myself. < 1406761689 506199 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iD was known early on for a Super Mario clone. < 1406761704 949724 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did certainly not look for a new perspective on life on IRC ;-) < 1406761712 32093 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involved some pretty clever programming, and also was a super mario clone < 1406761720 942366 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dave? < 1406761723 412633 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1406761735 563593 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :well everything is a copy of something, if that's what you mean < 1406761741 995074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: doesn't that just make imp9 the mike tyson of using a computer? < 1406761752 949185 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you understand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj4HJkeQSg0 < 1406761762 483797 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what? he hasn't bitten off any ears yet, I think < 1406761774 501988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :speak for yourself. < 1406761789 885894 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know they were sued < 1406761796 718400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: the ? blocks doing nothing is so beautifully sad < 1406761801 830750 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :inorite < 1406761808 757332 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they weren't sued, that's just what they called it < 1406761852 666362 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1406761854 900795 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like to think of myself as the hypatia of using computers < 1406761869 744043 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much like the whole PARC thing with jobs and gates, right? < 1406761878 450782 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the what < 1406761892 361225 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :when Jobs snatched gui from parc < 1406761899 584790 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1406761910 154441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to think of myself as the gandhi of sleeping. < 1406761911 256 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody remembers them anymore (parc guys) < 1406761914 854589 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just meant these people steal all kindsa shit and generally can't do shit by themselves < 1406761939 658600 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it goes I guess... < 1406761957 645153 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat the path < 1406761970 139106 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parc guys had the chance to make their project go live when they pitched it to Xerox HQ in NY...but they probably lacked Jobs' reality distortion skills or something < 1406762001 748863 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that's the kind of thing i mean. reality distortion skills? he's a human being < 1406762013 310209 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not anymore < 1406762019 224293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbf, jobs was very charismatic (and brutal) < 1406762020 744524 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao damn! < 1406762030 848172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly a role model though < 1406762032 979997 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :jobs, in my opinion, was nuts < 1406762040 736669 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he had sociopathic tendencies < 1406762048 60192 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1406762065 48010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he always seemed like a pretty awful person to work for. < 1406762068 210483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :made a lot of money though < 1406762069 252605 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way the Jobs movie was awful < 1406762075 381785 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :he and pretty much everybody else in upper management. < 1406762119 206286 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have to admit until I saw Pirates movie, I never realized how damn exciting and dare I say - epic - those 80s were in computer era...really fascinating decade < 1406762142 841280 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that movie was in rhyming couplets you are forbidden from calling it epic < 1406762145 371080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :steve jobs for the win < 1406762164 574555 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew I didnt have to use that word < 1406762167 33153 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :D < 1406762184 162239 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :epic failure < 1406762190 518778 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :scnr < 1406762197 648327 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did it for the lulz < 1406762283 744012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at all the lulz we're having together < 1406762294 893286 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :we avin a laff mate :) < 1406762300 232524 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i already compared myself to someone with my skin removed < 1406762300 993801 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: lulz? < 1406762301 315484 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: we let him do that because evolving the browser environment above a certain level of support is required to understand the " functions" < 1406762323 661870 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right on topic. fungot is marvellous sometimes. < 1406762323 913014 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: so inherently it's bad. what's worse is it was the number of functions in < 1406762330 1620 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if you're that interested you might like reading some biographical material, like Coders at Work. something less apotheosistic than anything relating to jobs < 1406762332 958750 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1406762358 751239 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll find that a lot of Important Programmers got into it because they flunked a math class or weren't very good at jazz or whatever < 1406762369 977400 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is apotheosistic a word, oh well < 1406762393 549291 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha i was just googling that word, apparently it isnt :D < 1406762396 328139 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halcyon_Days_%28book%29 hey, this one's free < 1406762414 501410 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apotheosizing < 1406762418 557263 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :introduction by romero oh my < 1406762419 54437 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it is. I don't know what it means, but it is a fine word nonetheless. I like words. < 1406762454 382181 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apotheosis_of_George_Washington.jpg this is apotheosis < 1406762469 366947 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any essential documentary on these subjects? < 1406762472 829186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :romero is just a guy, y'know. he has hair and a wife. he showers regularly and eats food every day. probably. < 1406762496 517961 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :romero has a lot of hair, in fact < 1406762499 431289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1406762503 998452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read romero's hair care tips < 1406762505 557009 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's not just a guy, he made a mark on the entertainment industry, not exactly what everyone can claim :) < 1406762523 622331 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol he does have a majestic hair, almost unfair amount of follicular majesty < 1406762531 340385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, he did things. he's still just a guy. making idols of people doesn't really get anyone anywhere < 1406762555 990758 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously though, coders at work is good, even though the publisher is kind of noticeably shitty. it even has interviews with... women < 1406762559 230632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure my hair is longer than romero's. life achievements < 1406762574 226119 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike LOL < 1406762624 887536 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a doom documentary on the tube...why doesn't quake get the love...the best damn video game of all time < 1406762661 509116 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: did you accept the trade offer? < 1406762682 121829 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: you signed off too fast! < 1406762747 631311 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr PRIVMSG #esoteric :im out < 1406762748 952129 :imp9!~imp9@224-95.dsl.iskon.hr QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1406762758 553901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, but I was having fun. < 1406762772 737118 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :good move, now I can sleep. :P < 1406762776 936532 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I didn't, I had to make supper and eat. I know, I'm selfish... < 1406762791 177689 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: sign back on so you can get a portal 2 < 1406762811 362176 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in about half an hour. food is being included in me. < 1406762846 234313 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could be has happenedening while it eats < 1406762855 839100 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION chokes
< 1406762861 127149 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :“happenedening”? < 1406762861 316685 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-47-173.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this weird urge to act as a marathon fanboy... < 1406762875 222925 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you'd choke on "it" < 1406762885 76549 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a knight of ni. < 1406762895 569526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : `addquote i thought you'd choke on "it" < 1406762918 625038 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :good one < 1406762922 637644 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtle. < 1406762958 111092 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't mind if you did add it though. but you probably would. < 1406762967 430421 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo no bot < 1406762968 76341 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bot < 1406762975 823247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not actually funny. < 1406762985 452194 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you had an extra space though < 1406762987 293656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: \x20 < 1406762990 891140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1406762992 321891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :intentional < 1406762998 813643 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is a grumpy dadaist. < 1406763006 716272 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nada < 1406763024 886156 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i lol'd a bit. but it wouldn't be funny out of this context, i agree. < 1406763102 807877 :vifino!~vifino@ip-37-24-78-77.hsi14.unitymediagroup.de QUIT :Quit: Me sais Laptop sleepy. < 1406763298 309352 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1406763419 360472 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Excess Flood < 1406764010 268874 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1406764150 936016 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-joktnrcyarboonww JOIN :#esoteric < 1406764532 193133 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1406764568 258299 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: TELEOLOGICAL CHICKEN < 1406764570 871607 :metasepia!~metasepia@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1406764636 946972 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-088-078-156-068.088.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated