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< 1407045191 307696 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1407045191 546046 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407045357 860605 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407045476 178929 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could it be? A themed language with few tokens that isn't a BF derivative?
< 1407046141 422405 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :last night I was lying in bed pondering an octal assembly/ML languag.e
< 1407046224 977767 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1407046331 467070 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would make it octal?
< 1407046346 575862 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean that the structure would be 3-bit aligned?
< 1407046464 121393 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@athedsl-16485.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1407046662 813863 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Noctal
< 1407047183 599449 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: i like that
< 1407047316 956030 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: Yeah. 3-bits for the instruction would give you precisely 8 instructions (7 usable), then another multiple of 3 for the address and data.
< 1407047411 994973 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I snuck some octal coded messages in my last game project, and last night I was playing with a PDP-8 and some ideas for a "game" about poking around on a foreign OS. Somehow that lead to 'lets do a virtual machine and build all the instructions for octal instead of hex'. XD
< 1407047414 268725 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine some old archs fit that
< 1407047449 424660 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :close: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-8#Instruction_set
< 1407047452 809538 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the PDPs used octal.
< 1407047465 186775 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know some do work better with octal, such as if it has a multiple of three bits in one byte.
< 1407047474 163401 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp, je, inc, dec, mov
< 1407047477 979822 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmp
< 1407047487 374748 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also use octal for 7-segment patterns)
< 1407047517 724548 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: What game project and what message is it? What such "game"?
< 1407047520 28981 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe jl if you want to give some freedom
< 1407047538 674642 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go :p
< 1407047594 414431 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I did a roguelike, handhRL, based on a tabletop RPG I published. The opening 'cinematic' text contains some 'garbage data' that actually decodes from octal to "YOU ARE DOOMED". :D
< 1407047706 423359 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is tubes in the "work in progress" list?
< 1407047735 640147 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: did somebody know if there is some easy framework to build roguelikes for android on?
< 1407047855 496360 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: Ah, OK
< 1407047956 893190 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other project I've done so far is BlueBox, which is a graphics library powered by libtcod for simulating an old-school microcomputer. It's what my esolang VIOLET runs on. But what I thought about doing for an actual game was something that replicates the experience of exploring an unfamiliar command line OS. :D
< 1407048013 375209 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407048020 805491 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also try to write programs directly for an old microcomputer.
< 1407048185 306783 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen cool-old-term?
< 1407048211 401639 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have now. :D THat looks cool.
< 1407048230 454125 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :didnt the umix icfp contest have an unfamliar command line os?
< 1407048232 153698 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one I've seen like that for OS X, but, well, OS X.
< 1407048276 956851 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a hacking game bsaed on an unfamliar command line os? that would be fun
< 1407048301 658166 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://telehack.com/
< 1407048320 690047 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: Yeah. That was the idea. You get dumped in as a guest user on a strange OS and have X amount of time to solve a target goal.
< 1407048410 477440 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen telehack? :)
< 1407048445 25127 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do from cmd line with " telnet telehack.com
< 1407048450 929299 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so youc an run it in cool-old-term if you want
< 1407048470 749930 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the instructions http://telehack.com/telehack.html
< 1407048556 240144 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice.
< 1407048908 329317 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1407049020 289885 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407049056 104212 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeeze, he's got a full working BASIC and 6502 assembler in there, and apparently a VAX simulator as well?
< 1407049088 672300 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Previously I thought I'd be insane to develop my idea on an actual virtual machine, now I feel like I'd be inadequate if I didn't. ;)
< 1407049866 937338 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, but I sometimes like to write program for Nintendo Famicom. It is also 6502, but decimal mode doesn't work.
< 1407049958 156414 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have some people used a Bacon cipher with Baudot encoding instead of the one Bacon used?
< 1407053648 707426 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1407068417 200920 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1407072080 259320 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1407074197 531270 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi
< 1407074204 417409 :scoofy!~blah@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1407074227 224539 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ʰi
< 1407074274 223361 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making a Befunge-98 interpreter in Ruby. I believe that's a first :P
< 1407074303 376752 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :My old one in Python is too messy and I don't want to do all of that again in the same language, so I'm doing it in Ruby.
< 1407074304 96081 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should make a Ruby interpreter in Befunge-98.
< 1407074355 302738 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes because that's something anyone can do in a lifetime.
< 1407074387 946598 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :though someone has made a Befunge-98 to ANSI C compiler in Befunge-98 iirc
< 1407074429 617777 :MoALTz_!~no@user-31-174-95-221.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407074540 182752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlikely
< 1407074543 832229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge-98 is not easy to compile
< 1407074578 94893 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it actually possible to compile or is it one of those parsing perl things
< 1407074620 416748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has self-modification.
< 1407074622 317319 :MoALTz!~no@user-31-174-95-221.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1407074636 493891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really a parsing perl thing.
< 1407074843 103821 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info/befunge/befc2.php
< 1407074850 75041 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not support self-modification
< 1407074910 626215 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or x or j, for that matter. (There's a later written-in-C compiler from the same source that does those.)
< 1407075031 88641 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as Funge-98 programs go, it's still quite a big one.
< 1407075166 182774 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the name of that website.
< 1407075193 621007 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :"egnufeB">:#,_@
< 1407075956 685927 :MoALTz_!~no@user-31-174-95-221.play-internet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1407076004 780937 :MoALTz_!~no@user-31-174-95-221.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407077995 1668 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Any recommendations for static web site setup? Thinking some markdown based thingy
< 1407078021 733897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used any of those thingies. I'm sure they're all fine though
< 1407078037 761489 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right
< 1407078049 649664 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about you?
< 1407078091 180214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :build/%.html: src/%.html ; echo "
" >$@; cat $< >>$@
< 1407078121 853668 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't need or in HTML5??
< 1407078136 443420 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't realise it was quite that free-form
< 1407078150 762064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct
< 1407078165 110638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :html5 is actually pretty usable as an authoring format so I'm not entirely joking her
< 1407078168 116239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1407078272 838379 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My website runs on a bit of Python and files containing HTML snippets and some special comment markers.
< 1407078296 136547 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just plain HTML(5) for the actual content parts.
< 1407078321 287856 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I did use markdown for a user's guide thing for a thing at work.
< 1407078508 994543 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407078546 36685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :html5 is awkward for code blocks because of escaping though
< 1407078633 339310 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I do have a bit of Python for that.
< 1407078689 764079 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... blocks are extracted and passed through some command-line syntax highlighter.
< 1407078698 459273 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, thunderstorm
< 1407078703 545495 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just escaped and put in a
-alike if x is "text".
< 1407078718 978206 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net
< 1407078783 226317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, Europe looks impressively thundery.
< 1407078787 675699 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nothing in our corner.)
< 1407079323 118786 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, though it hasn't really reached us yet
< 1407079327 745625 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it will in the evening
< 1407081141 204460 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1407083933 502465 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: Holy crap! I'm on fire!
< 1407085983 832016 :sektor1610!~sektor@41.193.160.110 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407086971 373021 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1407087010 179297 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407089468 811439 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1407090551 109597 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.138.70 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407090873 964813 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are making a new kind of Huffman coding where once a character is output it just leads to another state instead of necessarily starting over from the first state, then what is this called?
< 1407090996 444073 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds
< 1407091300 306424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it would be nice if HTML5 had heredocs or something.
< 1407091338 382258 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there's a bunch of articles on compression with weighted finite automata. they probably use arithmetic coding on top of that but there's no reason why that couldn't be done by a huffman code.
< 1407091360 797714 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I agree with such thing; things that compile into HTML5 (as well as various other formats too) could convert such heredocs
< 1407091408 256893 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: What is a weighted finite automata?
< 1407091446 540556 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a finite automaton with some sort of weights on the transitions; in the data compression case, the weights will be probabilities.
< 1407091526 638668 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I was thinking of, there are no weights after it is compiled; each state consists of: next state in case of 0, next state in case of 1, character output in case of 0, character output in case of 1; all parts are optional.
< 1407091723 844643 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: unrelated to data compression, there are finite automata with output: Moore and Mealy machines. (Personally, I never found those concepts very helpful.)
< 1407091943 483840 :sektor1610!~sektor@41.193.160.110 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
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< 1407092268 913405 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: so, a Markov Chains?
< 1407092364 245221 :MoALTz_!~no@user-31-174-95-221.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1407092370 587759 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: With probabilities as weights: yes.
< 1407092501 237419 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Ah, no, but the concepts are closely related. The difference is, with a weighted automaton you have multiple transition matrices; which one is used depends on the input.
< 1407092549 677065 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: um, ok
< 1407092845 921802 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: this sentence (from Wikipedia) is illustrative of the difference: "A finite state machine can be used as a representation of a Markov chain. Assuming a sequence of independent and identically distributed input signals (for example, symbols from a binary alphabet chosen by coin tosses), if the machine is in state y at time n, then the probability that it moves to state x at time n + 1 depends only on the current...
< 1407092851 918138 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :...state."
< 1407092878 83997 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :note the assumption that the sequence be i.i.d.; in practice that assumption will not hold for, say, text inputs.
< 1407093028 886403 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And this problem does not simply go away by considering higher order Markov chains; weighted automata can track properties that depend on the whole history of events so far. For example, they could tell whether the number of 0 bits seen so far is odd or even.)
< 1407093047 301418 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.65.240 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407093138 991374 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he's making any sense.
< 1407093306 957990 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: dunno, sorry
< 1407093315 988874 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't think of such stuff now
< 1407093403 77950 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407093957 877386 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Never seen this in a programming book before: "Exercise 12. Now relax, eat, sleep, and then tackle the next chapter. "
< 1407094520 329757 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How fast is a Commodore 64 compared to Nintendo Famicom?
< 1407094578 393507 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ask on #tasvideos
< 1407094813 326874 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-163-205.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What would a heredoc be in the context of html5?
< 1407094836 14302 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, the processor is the same, so it reall comes down to how the support chips make things easier or not for the CPU.
< 1407094853 513212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: something to let you have a bunch of text that doesn't need escaping, for code snippets.
< 1407094876 109603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like
< 1407094877 859544 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-163-205.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it not have CDATA?
< 1407094905 953129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, would that work for <pre>?
< 1407094910 666984 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-163-205.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that XML-only?
< 1407094925 502645 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 6502 in the NES clocks higher.
< 1407094926 624087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3302648/should-i-use-cdata-in-html5 XHTML5 only and only allowed in certain elements
< 1407095122 142391 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: This post lacks hard numbers, but seems a reasonable summary: http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14988
< 1407095211 618367 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't the c64 have a proper 6502 whereas the famicom has a cheaper variant?
< 1407095330 134815 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm "proper"
< 1407095344 419066 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiki says the Ricoh chip in the NES is missing BCD mode but otherwise seems to add more things than it removes.
< 1407095346 735453 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning "all the undocumented opcodes that hackers love work"?
< 1407095378 55021 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: is that one of those that add some 16-bit stuff?
< 1407095401 898500 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-163-205.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, so in HTML5 it’s only allowed in embedded XML. In XML to the best of my understanding it’s allowed anywhere literal text is.
< 1407095431 89391 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407095606 633720 :hektor!972ad8f5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.42.216.245 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407095667 704847 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricoh_2A03
< 1407095793 170803 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1407095860 692790 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: All unofficial opcodes of NMOS 6502 do work; only decimal mode doesn't work.
< 1407095919 784219 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but msot of those unofficial opcodes don't do anything useful, do they? except for one right shift instruction that was found a big buggy so it was deemed unofficial, or something
< 1407095955 188029 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f949-238.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This all reminds me that I've a c64 assembly tutorial I wanted to play with soon.
< 1407095997 550384 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: No, maybe half of the unofficial opcodes are useful, I think.
< 1407096000 710890 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This year's Assembly's "oldskool demo" competition had a total of two (2) entries, both for the Amiga 500 (500).
< 1407096035 559143 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game "Attribute Zone" uses several unofficial opcodes.
< 1407096056 843265 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: really? wow
< 1407096071 854258 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone
< 1407096083 245288 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then the "real wild" compo had two Commodore PETs and a VIC-20.
< 1407096103 852125 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok, if you say so
< 1407096113 517599 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a silly quirk in the rules that the "oldschool platforms" are limited to a fixed set, instead of the released-commercially-in-the-given-timeframe criteria they used to have.
< 1407096146 186231 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On the other hand, the party organizers provide the hardware for running them, so I guess the fixed set is just what they and their friends had.)
< 1407096149 390556 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them are not useful because they are unstable; others are the same function as official opcodes so they could be used if you want those specific bit patterns for the instructions rather than other ones.
< 1407096197 697689 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The set consists of: C64, Plus/4, A500, Atari STf and 130xe, MSX1, Speccy 128k and an Amstrad CPC6128.)
< 1407096226 677168 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :See http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/CPU_unofficial_opcodes and http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Programming_with_unofficial_opcodes for details about unofficial opcodes.
< 1407096440 886204 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z80 has an undocumented opcode "in f, (c)" which reads from an I/O port into the flags register.
< 1407096503 296720 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I suppose it is normally not useful unless you are connecting special devices to the I/O port; if you are then it probably can help though.
< 1407096546 449199 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it can (theoretically, anyway) be useful if you're interested in a bit that happens to coincide with one of the flags for which there are conditional jumps.
< 1407096611 969833 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the "z80undoc" document mentions something about "some older Z80" locking up.
< 1407096797 5059 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a left shift that 1-fills the least significant bit, that can be useful. (It's there in the instruction set where the "missing" shift instruction out of the "{logical, arithmetic} shift {left, right}" quadruplet should be.)
< 1407096936 181088 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's the same as a "scf; rl" pair, except in one instruction.)
< 1407096978 129295 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it can be useful; 6502 has no such single instruction
< 1407097539 528897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, interesting; it's not really the opposite of an arithmetic shift right
< 1407097547 529962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that would fill the low bit only if the number was odd
< 1407098012 509954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1407098099 644282 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407098144 358996 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: "Logically" (no pun intended) the opcode in fact corresponds to a *logical* shift left; the "arithmetic shift left" opcode is the regular left shift.
< 1407098161 796451 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, right
< 1407098172 592190 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arithmetically, it's a times-2-plus-1 operation
< 1407098181 641024 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is certainly something I've used in the past
< 1407098282 884047 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is in fact the very useful thing
< 1407098800 624964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407099489 227633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: the thing I linked said you can only use it with script and style in XHTML5 I think
< 1407099633 154806 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407099805 538327 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
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< 1407100823 101522 :FreeFull_!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1407102917 132582 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1407103124 261735 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.65.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow z80 code golf is pretty mindblowing! here's one i made earlier http://bpaste.net/raw/552075/
< 1407103701 791980 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now can you do a 6502 code golf?
< 1407103963 236934 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.65.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't tried. this works with anarchy golf's z80 emulator's IO which is just "putchar at $8000, getchar at $8003"; i guess you could do the same on a 6502
< 1407104403 686394 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unofficial MagicKit uses the same address for putchar and getchar on standard I/O (however, this function is rarely used anyways since MagicKit is a compiler, so standard I/O is normally only used for debugging).
< 1407104580 671672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407104852 811913 :qlkzy!~qlkzy@li559-28.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1407104935 179003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1407105273 809253 :FreeFull_!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover NICK :FreeFull
< 1407105475 827953 :vifino!~vifino@ip-37-24-78-77.hsi14.unitymediagroup.de QUIT :Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...
< 1407105671 681677 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gently mapoles fungot before his vacation
< 1407105672 29540 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: see? who cares about ie". i guess it's just because he doesn't ever talk. i'd like to design a good embedded scheme user environment.
< 1407105694 800988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, are we going to be boilyless?
< 1407105710 504862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: i use ie hth
< 1407105710 954462 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ( or put it up somewhere else, 1 sec... one school put up some text on the distinction between tags and types aren't first-order. take the list monad
< 1407105734 378876 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed. I'll be on the other side of the Great Puddle until August 12.
< 1407105760 989304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my side!
< 1407105783 5062 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, but I'll be a little be South.
< 1407105807 560923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere in the francophonie?
< 1407105825 479680 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more South. in the South of Spain.
< 1407105828 211297 :qlkzy!~qlkzy@li559-28.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1407105870 762876 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :beware of the spanish inquisition.
< 1407105907 107033 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION never has been in spain, which makes him an unusual norwegian.
< 1407105948 604362 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean I'll be meeting a lot of Norwegians?
< 1407105968 446971 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prepares himself for spotting tall blond people in the field
< 1407105969 54251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible.
< 1407105982 529881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially retired ones.
< 1407106017 921778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think my aunt spends most of her time in the canaries these days.
< 1407106027 281117 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the European version of snowbirds. I understand.
< 1407106060 721452 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :retired Québécois all flock down to Florida.
< 1407106060 920164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it
< 1407106250 784329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, that's the traditional place that first got them. nowadays there are also a lot in turkey and some in thailand, and probably other places.
< 1407106412 392468 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't been any of those places either.
< 1407106469 204458 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never went to Florida. I should try Thaïland some day, to learn more about their cuisine.
< 1407106582 103993 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1407106629 327543 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ï confuses me a bit, because the ai is pronounced as one syllable; but then i remember that french uses it to mean it's not a single vowel.
< 1407106762 70232 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did they eventually stop making VCRs record LP?
< 1407106840 400066 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: everything is a single vowel in French, except when it isn't.
< 1407106847 596153 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm getting a parse error from that.
< 1407106855 165081 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: LP?
< 1407106870 13306 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"long play" (record, presumably vinyl)
< 1407106873 706948 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :o caille
< 1407106886 286362 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that may be my mistake.
< 1407106911 696244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, also mine
< 1407106922 567609 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.65.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: <ai> is /ɛ/ in french
< 1407106932 436026 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that only confuses me more. what has a vinyl record got to do with a VCR.
< 1407106932 634742 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean vinyl records; I mean a recording mode where the tape is four hours long.
< 1407106938 304534 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.65.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(<aï> is /ai/)
< 1407106961 555996 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: i know that
< 1407106962 558616 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: je proteste. <ai> is /e/, not /ɛ/.
< 1407106991 384302 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. it's called VCR-LP.
< 1407107008 944057 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: except that in "caille", it's apparently /ɑ/
< 1407107024 599964 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1407107032 170154 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :«caille» is /kaj/.
< 1407107040 28281 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.65.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: contre-argument: t'es québécois
< 1407107048 476642 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(câille, on the other hand...)
< 1407107062 520930 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: en effet.
< 1407107079 906920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/caille#Pronunciation
< 1407107097 273645 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY LIE! IT'S NOT TRUE!
< 1407107153 115867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does québécöís have the /ɑ/ vs. /a/ distinction?
< 1407107166 712753 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course.
< 1407107173 539171 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The VCR I have cannot record onto VHS in LP mode; only SP and EP are supported. It can record onto DVD in SP, LP, and EP mode, though.
< 1407107183 215878 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(heh. québécöís. :D)
< 1407107277 388164 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.65.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently belgian french makes the distinction but i was taught metropolitan french even though i live in belgium
< 1407107304 847977 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.65.240 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whispers to himself "patte. pâââââte. patte")
< 1407107330 785634 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poil. poêle. la. là.
< 1407107368 216032 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I can't help you there. SP has best quality, EP has the longest recording time; perhaps LP is a compromise that few people desire. Supporting three recording speeds would make the device more complex (mechanically). OTOH for DVD it's just a matter of specifying a target bit rate to the encoder.
< 1407107375 848165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mainly remembers the word "caille" from the dish in babette's feast ("Caille en Sarcophage avec Sauce Perigourdine")
< 1407107447 500545 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1407107520 419122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babette's_Feast
< 1407107545 433149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babette's_Feast#The_menu
< 1407107598 823357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's of course an enormous spoiler if you haven't seen the movie
< 1407107702 929202 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pope Francis has identified Babette's Feast as his favorite film."
< 1407107738 491883 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no click for me then.
< 1407108838 632838 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/infiniteworldproblems ← nothing better to keep you sane. saaaaaaaane.
< 1407108913 646009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought fifthworldproblems was already sane enough
< 1407109626 546665 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea; using the Famicom's tape port to connect together two Famicom units.
< 1407109657 210343 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be doable even just using the expansion port and not using the tape port, but if the software is using the keyboard, then you can use the tape port.
< 1407109658 667226 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :networking
< 1407109684 292376 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it is two players game with two keyboard and two screens.