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00:08:47 <Sgeo> > 5 & id .~ 6
00:08:48 <lambdabot>  6
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03:35:09 <quintopia> how's the progress coming zzo38 
03:44:25 <zzo38> What progress?
03:45:36 <zzo38> I read about "No leveling up of your character between each match, for example. No collecting cards." and yes it is one way to do it; like, to play Magic: the Gathering or whatever in Limited format, any cards you may collect don't affect any further games played, they only affect that one so it doesn't affect later on.
03:50:21 <oerjan> > Just "hello" & _Just <<<>~ "world"
03:50:23 <lambdabot>  ("hello",Just "helloworld")
03:51:07 <zzo38> What are these & and _Just and <<<>~ operators here?
03:51:25 <Bike> :t (<<<>~)
03:51:26 <lambdabot> Monoid r => Optical' (->) q ((,) r) s r -> r -> q s (r, s)
03:51:35 <Bike> I'm glad we've transcended letterforms
03:51:38 <oerjan> they are from lens.  & is just flip ($)
03:51:46 <newsham> give a man a (<<>~) or teach a man to (<<<>~)
03:51:53 <oerjan> _Just is a prism for Just
03:52:00 <nooodl> <<<>~ is a good operator
03:52:36 <newsham> smoooth operator
03:53:06 <oerjan> > Just "hello" & _Just <<%~ (<> "world")
03:53:07 <lambdabot>  ("hello",Just "helloworld")
03:54:04 <oerjan> <<<>~ combines <<%~ with <>, the latter is mappend.
03:55:05 <oerjan> <<%~ applies a function to the targets of a traversal (prisms are traversals) and also returns the old value
03:55:10 <oerjan> hm
03:55:33 <oerjan> > Just ["hello ", "goodbye "] & traverse <<%~ (<> "world")
03:55:35 <lambdabot>  Couldn't match type ‘GHC.Types.Char’ with ‘[GHC.Types.Char]’
03:55:35 <lambdabot>  Expected type: [[GHC.Types.Char]] -> [GHC.Types.Char]
03:55:35 <lambdabot>    Actual type: [GHC.Types.Char] -> [GHC.Types.Char]
03:55:37 <oerjan> oops
03:56:01 <oerjan> > ["hello ", "goodbye "] & traverse <<%~ (<> "world")
03:56:03 <lambdabot>  ("hello goodbye ",["hello world","goodbye world"])
03:56:49 <oerjan> oh it uses <> to combine old values
04:02:05 <newsham> > "o" <> "hai"
04:02:07 <lambdabot>  "ohai"
04:56:20 <zzo38> `danddreclist 55
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05:11:15 <Sgeo_> How well do I have to play wisp in dota 2 to read and write files in Haskell?
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05:22:47 <oerjan> well since i don't know how to do the former at all, but do know some ways of doing the latter, i am guessing "not at all" hth
05:27:21 <Sgeo_> http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Wisp
05:28:45 <oerjan> my guess remains hth
05:57:42 <shachaf> oerjan: perhaps you have a latent ability to do the former
05:58:55 <shachaf> also io jokes are old-hat hth
06:00:39 <oerjan> ... i didn't connect that.
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07:03:19 <oerjan> > (1,2) & _2 <.~ 3
07:03:21 <lambdabot>  (3,(1,3))
07:04:46 <oerjan> :t uncurry (id <.~)
07:04:48 <lambdabot> (t, b) -> (t, t)
07:04:59 <oerjan> :t uncurry (id <<.~)
07:05:01 <lambdabot> (t, s) -> (s, t)
07:07:02 <shachaf> :t view swapped
07:07:03 <lambdabot> (Swapped p, MonadReader (p a b) m) => m (p b a)
07:07:05 <shachaf> pft
07:07:07 <shachaf> :t view swapped :: (a,b) -> (b,a)
07:07:09 <lambdabot> (a, b) -> (b, a)
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07:42:02 <shachaf> fizzie: "I wrote you OHHEA in Finnish instead ONNEA!= that means luck. ( because in Russian H=N)"
07:42:05 <shachaf> mystery solved
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07:51:32 <b_jonas> shachaf: oh! thanks for the update
08:13:17 <fizzie> I don't like it when people use H when they mean Н. :/
08:14:06 <scoofy> what do u like instead
08:14:23 <fizzie> When they just use Н, if that's what they want.
08:16:16 <shachaf> how do you feel when they use O when they mean О
08:16:31 <shachaf> or similarly for E/Е and A/А
08:17:55 <fizzie> Almost the same.
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09:36:43 <Taneb> I was thinking about a language with neither lazy nor eager evaluation but something inbetween
09:38:14 <Taneb> For stream processing
09:38:34 <Taneb> So you can do "give me as many as you can of these in 2 seconds"
09:39:01 <Taneb> Or "have this computing in the background"
09:40:00 <Taneb> Might be able to do that in Haskell with Conduit or Pipes or something
09:40:52 <Taneb> But I don't know those libraries well enough
09:45:10 <Taneb> Also I want this for a Python program
09:45:46 <coppro> hmm
09:46:13 <coppro> actually that sounds fairly easy to implement at the low level
09:47:16 <coppro> pick method of timing as choice; while (timeout > 0) { select(args, timeout); do stuff; recalculate the timeout; }
09:47:56 <coppro> maybe only do the check after the select call
09:48:27 <coppro> so that you can get whatever is instantaneously available
09:51:00 <coppro> Also, Conduit/Pipes wouldn't actually help with this, except inasmuch that they abstract the notion of a source so that the consumer of the input doesn't need to care what you're doing in the background
09:51:11 <coppro> For background computing, look into joinable threads
09:51:17 <coppro> you can renice threads independently on Linux
10:09:17 <Taneb> What does "renice" mean?
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10:21:32 <coppro> Taneb: change the priority
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13:52:10 <TieSoul> I might be implementing things in my Befunge-98 interpreter in the wrong order lol, I'm doing fingerprints before I've implemented p.
14:00:51 <ais523_> you can try mycology order if you want feedback on what you're doing
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14:16:40 <TieSoul> there's a bug if ` reflects, it says "BAD: ects" lol
14:17:02 <TieSoul> mycology
14:19:20 <fizzie> I looked at the mycology ` test code, and it seems fine to me.
14:20:17 <fizzie> I especially like the way how it sums up '2' and '3' to get 'e'.
14:23:44 <fizzie> The relevant code is http://sprunge.us/GfVT and it seems like it should print "BAD: ` reflects" if interpreted correctly.
14:25:08 <fizzie> Perhaps your ] is the wrong way around.
14:25:38 <fizzie> Because that would take it directly from "stce" to " :DAB".
14:34:54 <TieSoul> maybe
14:34:57 <TieSoul> It could be
14:35:21 [unexpected log event :(]
15:07:32 <elliott> it's a bit hard for mycology to test for things being broken in every possible order
15:08:08 <ais523_> yes
15:08:22 <ais523_> although it does decently by using the method of not using an opcode until it's been fully tested
15:14:58 <TieSoul> I like how mycology just exits without a BAD message when ; reflects.
15:15:15 <TieSoul> ?
15:15:17 <TieSoul> wait what
15:15:24 <TieSoul> ; shouldn't reflect
15:15:29 <TieSoul> wat
15:15:44 <TieSoul> maybe it's doing something with k and ;?
15:15:49 <ais523_> ; isn't really an instruction, it's more of a method of making the playfield even less euclidean
15:15:58 <ais523_> and yeah, k with ; is the sort of thing Mycology tests
15:16:07 <ais523_> because it likes looking at corner cases in the spec
15:16:28 <TieSoul> wait, k isn't implemented yet
15:17:05 <b_jonas> what...
15:17:29 <TieSoul> probably it's doing something like ;;;
15:17:39 <b_jonas> what's this semicolon thing? what funge variant?
15:17:49 <TieSoul> Funge-98, comments.
15:17:59 <TieSoul> skips until next ;
15:18:21 <TieSoul> it can also be a nop if there's no other ; on the line lel
15:18:23 <b_jonas> how does that work...
15:18:36 <TieSoul> for example
15:18:48 <TieSoul> !befunge98 5;3;.@
15:18:50 <EgoBot> 5
15:19:17 <b_jonas> but the three characters ";3;" are still part of the field, right?
15:19:24 <ais523_> TieSoul: it's not exactly a nop, just the same ; is seen as the first and second ;
15:19:27 <b_jonas> so it's just a jump instruction that finds the next ";" in the direction
15:19:29 <ais523_> because it's the next ; on the same lahey-line
15:19:38 <ais523_> b_jonas: it's not a jump instruction because it isn't an instruction
15:19:51 <b_jonas> ais523_: ok, so how does it work?
15:20:00 <ais523_> !befunge98 "xxx"3k.
15:20:01 <EgoBot> 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0 120 120 120 0
15:20:05 <ais523_> !befunge98 "xxx"3k.@
15:20:06 <EgoBot> 120 120 120 0
15:20:17 <ais523_> OK, so that program runs the "." four times
15:20:34 <ais523_> because 3k. repeats the . three more times
15:20:41 <ais523_> !befunge98 "xxx"3k;this is a comment;.@
15:20:41 <EgoBot> 120 120 120 0
15:20:49 <TieSoul> it makes the interpreter treat anything between the ;s as spaces, including the ;s themselves.
15:20:51 <ais523_> now, if ; were an instruction, the k would copy the ; rather than the .
15:21:08 <ais523_> but because it isn't an instruction, the k just ignores it and looks for the next actual instruction, which is the .
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15:22:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Portal]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40245 * 106.120.28.78 * (+2571) Wang-B Machine
15:22:37 <TieSoul> wait wait wait. I made it incredibly hard for myself to implement k without making the code almost twice as long because executing a character isn't a function :S
15:22:55 <TieSoul> I need to go refactor
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15:23:19 <ais523_> now I'm wondering how k interacts with "
15:23:38 <TieSoul> it toggles stringmode x amount of times I would think
15:23:49 <ais523_> !befunge98 "xxx"1k"y""z"5k.@"q"5k.@
15:23:49 <EgoBot> No output.
15:24:00 <ais523_> !befunge98 "xxx"1k"y""z"5k.@""q"5k.@
15:24:00 <EgoBot> 113 64 46 107 53 65
15:24:04 <ais523_> that's better
15:24:33 <ais523_> although I'm still not sure exactly what the code did
15:24:39 <ais523_> I think you're right, I guess the y actually executed
15:24:41 <TieSoul> try replacing the .s with ,s
15:24:50 <elliott> I remember nested k being fun.
15:24:50 <ais523_> !befunge98 "xxx"1k"y""z"5k,@""q"5k,@
15:24:51 <EgoBot> q@,k5A
15:25:04 <ais523_> or, hmm, no, that looks like part of the program
15:25:13 <TieSoul> A is the result of "x"y
15:25:19 <ais523_> right
15:25:27 <ais523_> and the rest of it is just part of the program being interpreted literally
15:25:31 <TieSoul> yup
15:25:34 <ais523_> !befunge98 "xxx"1k"y""z"5k,@""q"fk,@
15:25:35 <EgoBot> q@,k5Axx
15:26:54 <TieSoul> so yeah, it toggles stringmode x times.
15:28:33 <ais523_> I remember back when cfunge was being brought up to 100% compliant with the mycology spec
15:28:44 <ais523_> not sure which interp !befunge98 is using, and I've also forgotten how to find out
15:28:46 * ais523_ looks it up
15:29:31 <ais523_> huh, the link on esolangs.org is broken
15:29:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Portal 2]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40246 * 106.120.28.78 * (+2414) Portal 2
15:29:44 <ais523_> a web search suggests quadium.org for the funge-98 spec
15:31:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Portal 2]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40247&oldid=40246 * 106.120.28.78 * (-2) 
15:32:18 <ais523_> !befunge98 3y:,884**/:,884**/:,884**/:,@
15:32:18 <EgoBot> NUFC
15:32:21 <ais523_> cfunge
15:32:33 <ais523_> !befunge98 4y.@
15:32:34 <EgoBot> 90
15:32:41 <ais523_> and that's the version number
15:36:37 <fizzie> TieSoul: The 5 is executed in an unrelated code path, the $ is just compensating.
15:36:45 <TieSoul> ah
15:36:54 <fizzie> Mycology does quite a lot of "push and pop" as opposed to "# over push", even in places where it could.
15:37:47 <fizzie> fungot does a couple of space-saving uses of things like _ for a combination of (say) $ and > when it's known that there's a zero on the stack.
15:37:47 <fungot> fizzie: it wouldn't make any profit :p. i think cl has a macro system
15:37:58 <fizzie> Yeah, it doesn't make any profit.
15:39:06 <ais523_> it avoids $
15:39:10 <ais523_> how can it possibly make any profit
15:40:27 <fizzie> fungot: Why don't you mine some bitcoins or something to earn your living? 
15:40:28 <fungot> fizzie: what is scheme48 compared to r5rs? :) ( i.e. how are things going these days, right? assume non-tail recursion is free to rearrange the order to squeeze out the last files from the server
15:40:40 <fizzie> (Bitcoin-mining on Funge-98: probably not cost-effective.)
15:42:07 <ais523_> I don't really think you need the "probably" qualifier there
15:42:35 <fizzie> The current instance of the bot has been running since July 15th (approx. 21 days) and used a total of 17 minutes of CPU time, so at least it's not costing terribly much to run.
15:48:25 <elliott> okay Portal 2 has a great name
15:48:35 <TieSoul> let's mention fungot a lot so he's more expensive to run :P
15:48:36 <fungot> TieSoul: but it was unnecessary. that's why they picked, it looks good to all people), internet multiplayer and it gives you back that function's setter function. functions)
15:48:54 <elliott> someone make a conway's game of life variant with half the complexity so it can be called Half-Life
15:49:20 <int-e> "half the complexity", hmm. looking only at 4 neightbours rather than 8?
15:49:38 <elliott> oh, Portal 2 was better when I thought Portal wasn't created just now
15:49:46 <int-e> (where did that 't' come from? I must have typed it, but why?)
15:49:51 <elliott> int-e: something like that. as long as you can justify it as being life but half I'm down with it.
15:49:58 <elliott> it's a silent t.
15:50:03 <ais523_> elliott: I immediately checked that to see if it was spam, and decided it wasn't
15:50:05 <elliott> like the first t in my name.
15:50:16 <ais523_> but yes, it would be better if Portal were older
15:50:25 <TieSoul> fungot: You should upgrade to Trefunge.
15:50:25 <fungot> TieSoul: well it fnord about?)
15:50:44 <TieSoul> or does it already run Trefunge?
15:52:23 <ais523_> fungot doesn't run Befunge, in much the same way as thutubot doesn't run Thutu
15:52:24 <fungot> ais523_: " pretty fast" has a problematic connotation i had no interpreter to tets them with _my mind_, though
15:55:18 <TieSoul> I found a typo in fungot.
15:55:19 <fungot> TieSoul: you sure have it easy.
16:00:10 <fizzie> Heh.
16:01:41 <fizzie> (There's a command to execute "raw" Befunge-98, but it's owner-only, since it's potentially dangerous.)
16:02:03 <fizzie> fungot: Also your mind *is* an interpreter.
16:02:03 <fungot> fizzie: it's weird, either the melatonin or my low adrenal state is making time seemingly pass very slowly. or maybe it's supposed to snow today
16:02:30 <fizzie> Typo in the source or typo in the babble?
16:02:34 <TieSoul> babble
16:02:48 <TieSoul> >tets them with _my mind_
16:04:08 <TieSoul> very minor, but meh
16:04:53 <fizzie> 2005-07-28 21:12:34 <calamari> GregorR: I think I write the conversions, yeah.. but I had no interpreter to tets them with
16:05:13 <fizzie> That's where it's derived from.
16:10:32 <TieSoul> ahh
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16:21:44 <TieSoul> so in mycology, I get this:
16:21:56 <TieSoul> BAD: n does not clear 15-cell stack,  _v#nv#fkf>5 executes 5 thrice
16:23:03 <TieSoul> I don't see how that fragment would execute 5 at all
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16:23:25 <TieSoul> oh wait lel
16:23:31 <TieSoul> no wait
16:23:32 <TieSoul> no
16:23:35 <TieSoul> this is weird
16:24:01 <TieSoul> nevermind my last 4 posts
16:24:04 <TieSoul> 5
16:24:06 <TieSoul> 6
16:24:08 <TieSoul> whatever
16:25:14 <TieSoul> oh right wrapping
16:25:35 <TieSoul> so erm that can't be right since n does clear the stack D:
16:25:48 <TieSoul> it does "ip.stackstack[-1] = []"
16:25:59 <TieSoul> don't see how that would not clear a stack.
16:27:30 <TieSoul> it used to be "ip.stackstack[-1].clear" but I changed that because of this error.
17:07:22 <Phantom_Hoover> ^source
17:07:22 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
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17:10:12 <fizzie> I like how it starts in this really "structured Befunge" mode with comments and one-conceptual-operation-per-line and all that, then devolves a little bit to a more spaghetti-y mess by the time it gets to IRC PRIVMSG parsing, and then finally the babbling code actually looks a bit like real Befunge.
17:10:53 <Phantom_Hoover> ^bf [+]
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17:11:05 <Phantom_Hoover> oh this is just faffing
17:11:31 <fizzie> ^bf +[] does take a moment of CPU time, I'm sure.
17:11:35 <fungot>  ...out of time!
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17:13:09 <fizzie> ^bf +[]   ...just checking
17:13:13 <fungot>  ...out of time!
17:13:45 <Phantom_Hoover> ^code 99*:9p
17:14:05 <fizzie> Well, /proc/pid/sched's "se.vruntime" went from 231243698.908466 to 231248532.202064 and nr_switches incremented by 95 for a single +[].
17:14:14 <fizzie> I don't know the unit for the former, though.
17:14:19 <Phantom_Hoover> ^code 99*:g.
17:14:28 <fizzie> It doesn't run ^code from untrusted sources.
17:14:37 <fizzie> Also even if it did, the . wouldn't go to IRC.
17:14:40 <Phantom_Hoover> you crafty bastard!
17:15:43 <TieSoul> also you used p wrong
17:16:54 <Phantom_Hoover> how?
17:17:12 <fizzie> The value goes on the bottom.
17:17:28 <fizzie> 123p puts a 1 at the place where 23g would read it from.
17:17:54 <Phantom_Hoover> ah
17:18:09 <Phantom_Hoover> yeah, i read the spec wrong
17:23:44 <fizzie> Sorry, when I said 17 minutes back there, it was in fact 17 seconds instead.
17:23:51 <fizzie> ^bf +[]   one more try
17:23:55 <fungot>  ...out of time!
17:24:06 <fizzie> That takes a whopping 4 CPU seconds.
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17:24:44 <fizzie> It's at 30 seconds now. So today accounts for approximately half of its total CPU use for the last three weeks.
17:24:58 <fizzie> fungot: How about if I ask you to babble? 
17:24:58 <fungot> fizzie: does anybody else here who ever wrote ( and ( x z) ( y x))
17:25:07 <fizzie> 0.02 seconds.
17:29:17 <fizzie> ...I just DOS'd it...
17:29:25 <TieSoul> should s wrap or expand space?
17:29:32 <TieSoul> I think it should expand :P
17:30:02 <ais523_> space is conceptually infinite
17:30:31 <ais523_> it won't be infinite in practice, but your job as a Funge-98 implementor is to hide that
17:30:35 <fizzie> And since it says to write in (position + delta), that's probably what it should do.
17:30:40 <TieSoul> yeah
17:30:40 <ais523_> or well, not quite infinite due to not using bignums
17:30:42 <TieSoul> probably
17:30:53 <TieSoul> well, Ruby automatically uses bignums.
17:30:55 <ais523_> fizzie: hmm, can you write outside the playfield bounds like that?
17:31:24 <TieSoul> !befunge98 '.s
17:31:24 <EgoBot> 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
17:31:31 <TieSoul> well, seems it wraps
17:32:07 <TieSoul> and I think cfunge passed Mycology
17:32:34 <ais523_> mycology maybe isn't perfect
17:32:39 <ais523_> we find bugs in it sometimes, whenever a new Funge implementation comes along
17:33:05 <ais523_> it might be worth asking Deewiant, who is the expert on whether a particular behaviour is a Mycology bug, Funge specification bug, or not a bug at all
17:34:18 <TieSoul> anyway, I was trying to figure out what caused mycology to say that 'vs doesn't place v (it does)
17:34:52 <Deewiant> ais523_: Which behaviour is it now?
17:35:02 <ais523_> Deewiant: wrapping behaviour of s
17:35:04 <TieSoul> !befunge98 '.s
17:35:04 <EgoBot> 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
17:36:01 <TieSoul> also, what does BAD: getting (-3 -2) after putting there results in wrong value mean
17:36:13 <TieSoul> it prints just after k tests
17:36:23 <Deewiant> TieSoul: p is put and g is get
17:36:30 <TieSoul> oh
17:36:34 <Deewiant> So g gave back something that wasn't p'd
17:36:36 <TieSoul> I read that wrong
17:36:37 <TieSoul> lel
17:37:20 <Deewiant> Seems to me that s shouldn't wrap, so space after executing the s should be  '.s.
17:38:11 <TieSoul> which would not result in an infinite loop of 0 output.
17:38:27 <Deewiant> FWIW this is how CCBI seems to behave
17:39:00 <ais523_> ooh, CCBI and cfunge disagree on something? Vorpal isn't here, though, so I can't meaningfully ping them to complain
17:39:26 <Deewiant> ais523_: There was also another disagreement last time TieSoul was around, IIRC.
17:39:52 <ais523_> I am happy with Funge-98 development conversation, it normally leads to interesting esolanging discussions, even if they're of the "pin-down-the-spec" form
17:39:54 <Deewiant> It might've been the "y as pick instruction" thing, which cfunge had flipped?
17:40:00 <TieSoul> I'm the guy who points out Funge inconsistencies lol
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17:40:05 <ais523_> Funge-98 has half the advantages of a nomic
17:40:29 <fizzie> !befunge98 ;@.g0+aa.g00;#;_1'xs
17:40:29 <EgoBot> 59 32
17:40:34 <fizzie> ^ I don't quite get that.
17:40:43 <elliott> which one is s again
17:40:50 <Deewiant> "store character"
17:40:54 <fizzie> The x did not end up to (0, 20) -- the cell after the s -- but it did not end up at (0, 0) either.
17:41:02 <fizzie> I must've messed something up, but I'm not sure what.
17:42:35 <Deewiant> cfunge doesn't have a debugger so who knows
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17:43:35 <ais523_> it has gdb, but that's stretching a little
17:43:53 <Deewiant> I was just about to say that Vorpal would probably retort with gdb
17:44:11 <ais523_> actually, what you could do
17:44:15 <ais523_> is insert line labels into the code
17:44:18 <fizzie> I think he had a set of gdb macros or something that made it more bearable. And/or just "workflows".
17:44:21 <Deewiant> Anyway, its tracer doesn't say where the s wrote to, only that the next cell it went to was the ; at (0, 0) so it can't have been there
17:44:22 <ais523_> then you could debug it with COME FROM statements
17:44:23 <TieSoul> what y should push TOSS length again?
17:44:31 <ais523_> err, NEXT FROM, you need to resume afterwards
17:44:48 <fizzie> case 's': ip_forward(ip); fungespace_set(stack_pop(ip->stack), &ip->position); break;
17:44:51 <Deewiant> I rarely remember the y offsets
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17:45:44 <fizzie> ip_forward does do wrapping, so that's arguably "wrong".
17:45:44 <TieSoul> (actually I don't think there's a set one for TOSS length but there is for BOSS length)
17:46:19 <fizzie> !befunge98 ;@.g0-10;#;_1'xs
17:46:20 <EgoBot> 120
17:46:25 <fizzie> *There* it is.
17:46:26 <TieSoul> !befunge98 yby.@
17:46:27 <EgoBot> 2
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17:46:31 <fizzie> It ends up at (-1,0).
17:46:34 <TieSoul> !befunge98 yay.@
17:46:34 <EgoBot> 0
17:46:40 <TieSoul> !befunge98 ycy.@
17:46:41 <EgoBot> 0
17:46:48 <elliott> I wonder if you could make a nice funge-98 debugger with lldb or something.
17:47:44 <Deewiant> fizzie: Oh right, this is because of cfunge's Mycology optimization and its strange way of handling markers (or only semicolon)
17:48:06 <elliott> the Mycology/fungot trick is so ridiculous.
17:48:06 <fungot> elliott: btw, opennic also mirrors the standard icann tlds.
17:48:08 <Deewiant> It preallocates a space just large enough to include all of Mycology, including the negative areas it dynamically writes to (I still refuse to call this a coïncidence)
17:48:19 <elliott> fungot too, I think?
17:48:19 <fungot> elliott: whatever the os finds appropriate.'
17:48:22 <Deewiant> And evidently ip_forward skips over spaces but not semicolons
17:48:24 <elliott> maybe only because fungot is strictly smaller though
17:48:24 <fungot> elliott: how can i
17:48:42 <Deewiant> elliott: I think fungot's underload and whatever interpreters can go quite far out
17:48:43 <fungot> Deewiant: which do you prefer books or tv? umm......do you like the climate in atlanta? what about it
17:48:53 <Deewiant> Depends on the program, of course
17:52:05 <fizzie> @tell Vorpal Having "s" at edge of the playfield causes the placed character to go where wrapping puts it; there seems to be a vague consensus that s should not wrap. See http://sprunge.us/dZdS for most of the relevant context.
17:52:06 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:52:12 <fizzie> I sure hope sprunge doesn't time-out that.
17:52:39 <fizzie> (I don't know their paste-expiration schedule.)
17:53:23 <TieSoul> sprunge rhymes with funge
17:53:36 <TieSoul> coincidence? I think KNOT
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17:53:59 <fizzie> "TONK"4(
17:54:21 <Deewiant> That's an excellent name for a fingerprint :-D
17:54:37 <TieSoul> ... is there actually a KNOT fingerprint? If there isn't I'll have to find an application.
17:54:50 <TieSoul> also it's fun to write TONK
17:54:50 <Deewiant> I suggest it applies knot-theoretic concepts to Funge-Space
17:56:12 <TieSoul> I think that would only be applicable in Trefunge?
17:57:18 <Deewiant> Eh, I'm sure you could do something to make it work in lower dimensions, e.g. infer imaginary z-values from the cell values or something
17:57:34 <TieSoul> hrm... Is there a brainfuck-like memory fingerprint yet?
17:57:48 <TieSoul> I'm sure that'd have some use
17:58:00 <elliott> it's called g/p
17:58:10 <Deewiant> And 1+/1-
17:58:54 <TieSoul> yeah sure but that requires more effort to keep track of :P
17:59:03 <TieSoul> (slightly)
17:59:31 <Deewiant> You can always write brainfuck verbatim in your funge code and write a small interpreter for it inline
18:00:19 <TieSoul> and writing things like "110gg1+110gp" is kind of tedious
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18:08:26 <fizzie> fungot's brainfuck interpreter keeps the X index of the input program on top-of-stack, and X index of the brainfuck tape pointer below that.
18:08:27 <fungot> fizzie: this?). in the vi section. something came up at work. we're largely a perl shop.
18:08:30 <quintopia> how hard would it be to come up with a code golfing challenge specifically designed to require more characters in GolfScript than in some particular other (reasonably compact but otherwise arbitrarily chosen TC) language?
18:09:49 <scarf> quintopia: there was that anarchy golf "compression challenge" where you had to output a particular sequence of digits
18:10:02 <scarf> that just happened to be that generated by a particular RNG with its default seed
18:10:24 <quintopia> haha
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18:17:11 <elliott> scarf: that's great
18:17:30 <scarf> it was pretty clever
18:18:10 <elliott> scarf: it might have been unintentional
18:18:22 <elliott> scarf: if you want to create random data for your challenge so that it's incompressible...
18:18:42 <scarf> hmm, yes
18:19:08 <quintopia> actually the golfscript solution to this is REALLY CHEAP: http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Ghost+leg+solver but I have to admit I've solved problems the same way before :P
18:26:25 <TieSoul> okay so what is wrong with this code http://bpaste.net/show/aGXL8WSB8OrmE4MngGBd/
18:26:39 <TieSoul> look at the storage offset part.
18:26:59 <TieSoul> because Mycology says that's wrong
18:28:24 <TieSoul> also http://bpaste.net/show/V20S5hIpeAbR21vHsVXE/ <here's the p code, the way I handle negative fungespace is really weird btw.
18:31:10 <TieSoul> and I know I have much too many globals, will refactor someday
18:37:19 <Deewiant> Assuming you have the x value in ip.storeoffset[0] those pushes seem to be the wrong way around, the y should be on top
18:37:44 <Deewiant> In the { code I mean
18:39:25 <TieSoul> oh right, I used to have them that way around but then for some reason I thought to reverse it :P
18:39:42 <TieSoul> anyway I reversed it because of the error
18:39:57 <Deewiant> Looks okay to me otherwise
18:40:15 <TieSoul> what about the p code, otherwise that it's really funky?
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18:40:22 <TieSoul> other than that*
18:41:34 <Deewiant> No idea what's going on with the bounds stuff but otherwise seems right :-P
18:42:20 <TieSoul> I think I found it
18:42:21 <Deewiant> Messing with ip.x and ip.y seems error-prone, you might have to correct ip.storeoffset as well?
18:42:41 <TieSoul> g seems to not use the $origin variable
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18:43:46 <TieSoul> alright that does not fix it
18:44:39 <TieSoul> no, origin functions pretty much like an additional storage offset
18:46:35 <TieSoul> erm, so for some reason, the origin alterations and stuff seems to be bork'd
18:46:53 <TieSoul> if the y coordinate is negative.
18:46:54 <Deewiant> How do ip.x/ip.y relate to ip.coords
18:47:08 <TieSoul> aliases for ip.coords[0] and ip.coords[1]
18:47:11 <TieSoul> respectively
18:47:47 <Deewiant> Then ip.storeoffset = ip.coords.clone may need some $origin correction?
18:48:35 <TieSoul> Ah! Thanks!
18:49:53 <TieSoul> alright that was the problem
18:50:15 <TieSoul> so now I find out my } code is bork'd
18:50:27 <TieSoul> :P
18:50:30 <TieSoul> brb
18:50:41 <Deewiant> I'd suggest grepping over every use of ip.x/ip.y/ip.coords and check that $origin is used appropriately
18:51:28 <TieSoul> ip.coords/ip.y/ip.x is not used in }
18:51:30 <TieSoul> so that's fine
18:51:50 <Deewiant> Doesn't mean you don't have other issues lurking :-P
18:52:38 <elliott> what is $origin
18:53:02 <Deewiant> elliott: I think it's the offset of (0,0) from where his stored funge-space starts
18:53:18 <Deewiant> In other words, it's the negation of the minimum stored point
18:53:41 <TieSoul> ^
18:53:47 <TieSoul> that is what it is
18:54:04 <elliott> it sounds like TieSoul could use abstracting away the fungespace.
18:55:04 <TieSoul> what does it mean when Mycology says "10 0 0 " after the "BAD: } transfers cells incorrectly"?
18:55:18 <TieSoul> Does it output the stack after that or something?
18:55:31 <Deewiant> Typically that means that something got confused, lemme check
18:57:21 <Deewiant> Seems to me like your interpreter got lost and shouldn't be doing that
18:57:48 <TieSoul> alright then
18:57:50 <Deewiant> It should say "Stopping due to fear of corrupt stack stack..." and then stop
18:57:50 <TieSoul> anyway
18:58:03 <TieSoul> it does say that, but after it says "10 0 0 "
18:58:23 <TieSoul> and it says it without parens
18:58:26 <Deewiant> That's strange because the code executed to print that corruption fear is >:#,_@
18:59:22 <TieSoul> well, anyway, I've got to go now. I'll fix it tomorrow :P
18:59:26 <TieSoul> cya
18:59:34 <Deewiant> Bye
19:00:11 <quintopia> mycology is the mycologiest
19:00:32 <Deewiant> fizzie: Re. ; you can usually get the same cheating effect with ", it's just not as convenient
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19:08:34 <Deewiant> fizzie: And re. push-then-pop vs. #-over-push that might be because I prefer using an instruction from multiple directions whenever possible, even if it's executed only in order to move across it; not sure how much thought I've given it, though
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19:18:20 <fizzie> I don't use " to cheat either.
19:19:04 <Deewiant> I suppose the fact that it has other uses makes it less of a "cheater's command"
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19:27:16 <fizzie> Deewiant: "Substantial noninfringing uses" is the term, I think.
19:29:29 <Deewiant> I guess it could be argued that # is as cheating as ;, or are there any necessary uses for it?
19:29:52 <ais523_> # is great for tight loops
19:30:24 <Deewiant> Yes, and ; also helps with making tight code, which I took as the essence of the "cheating" :-P
19:31:28 <fizzie> It's not cheating if it was in Befunge-93, is my definition. :p
19:31:47 <fizzie> Also if it's in "the spirit of" '93, like a..f.
19:32:17 <Deewiant> I see :-P
19:49:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Darkgamma/SB2]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40248&oldid=40242 * 94.68.93.112 * (+1429) /* Variables */
19:50:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Darkgamma/SB2]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40249&oldid=40248 * Darkgamma * (-1) /* Variables */
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19:58:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Darkgamma/SB2]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40250&oldid=40249 * Darkgamma * (+261) /* Variables */
19:59:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Darkgamma/SB2]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40251&oldid=40250 * Darkgamma * (+13) /* Language Idea */
20:09:21 <quintopia> Hello, I am the BytePusher. I have two hundred and sixteen colors, sixteen megabytes of RAM, eight bit sound, sixteen keys, and a single instruction CPU, and I'm, like, so minimalist and sexy, but I can't keep running properly unless my window is in focus.
20:16:06 <J_Arcane> heh heh.
20:18:30 <b_jonas> quintopia: I don't find it sexy
20:18:50 <b_jonas> but then to each their own taste
20:22:07 <newsham> doyou need tables to do math in bytepusher?
20:23:00 <newsham> hmm.. how do youdo conditionals?
20:28:24 <int-e> quintopia: 216 colors seems a bit excessive
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21:00:58 <Taneb> Evening
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21:05:31 <Taneb> Saw an interesting talk this evening wherein a webhosting company person described a number of interesting failures they've had
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21:12:05 <quintopia> b_jonas: i have no opinion on its sexiness. in fact, i like ibniz more. but i was merely quot< 1407275316 779034 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-59-115.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN #esoteric
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21:50:37 <myname> one can see your d&d games?
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21:50:58 <zzo38> myname: There is the recording.
21:51:25 <zzo38> I type it after each session. It is: http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex and level20.dvi for the compiled one
21:59:33 <Taneb> Anyone know a language based on reshaping unlabeled binary trees?
22:00:01 <zzo38> I don't know
22:00:22 <Taneb> I mean, most combinator calculus are reshaping labeled binary trees
22:00:36 <Taneb> Or can be interpreted as such
22:03:11 <Bicyclidine> couldn't you interpret many things based on rewriting in such a way
22:03:16 <Bicyclidine> like haskell probably
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22:10:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Darkgamma/SB2]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40252&oldid=40251 * Darkgamma * (+211) /* Language Idea */
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22:15:00 <Taneb> Bicyclidine, that's not trivial, esp. with explicit recursion
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22:45:47 <Sgeo> I think I would like a language with configurable laziness
22:46:12 <Sgeo> Something more... tweakable than.... here, here's a box, peak and the box is evaluated, and you can never close the box again, 
22:47:17 <Sgeo> I want to manipulate the box as needed
22:47:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Darkgamma/SB2]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40253&oldid=40252 * Darkgamma * (+119) /* Variables */
22:51:11 <Melvar> Sgeo: How else do you want to manipulate the box?
22:51:37 <Sgeo> Reclaiming the memory and turning it back into its original thunk
22:52:07 <Sgeo> If, e.g., the results of evaluation are significantly larger than the thunk
22:52:57 <Melvar> Hm. Store the function for producing the box along with the box and replace the box with a new one when you want?
22:54:19 <Sgeo> I thought the box already contained the function
22:54:27 <Sgeo> It just loses it when it's opened
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22:57:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GML]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40254&oldid=39196 * 68.10.94.234 * (+94) 
22:57:22 <Melvar> The function to compute the *result*; I mean you store the function that makes the *box*, so you can replace the forced one with a fresh one later.
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23:28:09 <oerjan> i would like to point out that at least in ghc, the box contains merely a pointer to the function, as well as any needed arguments.
23:28:39 <oerjan> whether or not this is smaller than the result, may depend.
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23:59:43 <oerjan> `addquote <ais523_> Funge-98 has half the advantages of a nomic
23:59:45 <HackEgo> 1214) <ais523_> Funge-98 has half the advantages of a nomic