←2014-08-05 2014-08-06 2014-08-07→ ↑2014 ↑all
00:00:00 -!- hogeyui__ has joined.
00:12:32 -!- edwardk has joined.
00:26:45 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow).
00:34:13 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
00:40:52 -!- shikhin has joined.
00:44:06 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
00:45:22 -!- TodPunk has joined.
00:49:22 -!- edwardk has joined.
01:16:02 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
01:24:03 -!- mihow has joined.
01:45:20 <oerjan> `unidecode 
01:45:23 <HackEgo> U+EF01 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ee bc 81 UTF-16BE: ef01 Decimal: &#61185; \  () \ Uppercase: U+EF01 \ Category: Co (Other, Private Use) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
01:45:51 <shachaf> whoa
01:45:57 <shachaf> what's this  business
01:46:21 <oerjan> i dunno, someone made it in stackoverflow by accident with a phone
01:47:22 <shachaf> i guess it's just private-use
01:47:29 <shachaf> why does my thing render it
01:47:44 <oerjan> i dunno, i'm seeing a square
01:48:06 <Taneb> emoji, maybe?
01:48:09 <Bike> i'm seeing it rendered, as some kinda diacritic
01:48:15 <shachaf> ==Bike
01:49:44 <shachaf> http://s6.fi/ef01.png
01:51:31 <Bike> bit more bent for me, but basically the same.
01:51:36 <coppro> ^
01:51:39 <coppro> I see a forwardtick too
01:52:00 <Bike> using uh, i think this is dejavu sans mono.
01:52:01 <shachaf> that thing is longer than a forwardtick
01:54:06 <Bike> unassigned in CSUR...
01:54:20 * Taneb --> sleep
01:54:45 <Bike> also unassigned in MUFI
01:55:32 <Bike> `unidecode (  )
01:55:33 <HackEgo> U+0028 LEFT PARENTHESIS \ UTF-8: 28 UTF-16BE: 0028 Decimal: &#40; \ ( \ Category: Ps (Punctuation, Open) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored \ \ U+EF00 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ee bc 80 UTF-16BE: ef00 Decimal: &#61184; \  () \ Uppercase: U+EF00 \ Category: Co (Other, Private Use) \ Bidi: L (L
01:57:39 <Bike> http://utf8-chartable.de/unicode-utf8-table.pl?start=61184&number=128 man i have all the way up to ef19, wtf
02:07:39 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:07:43 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined.
02:19:40 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk.
02:42:05 <Sgeo> oerjan: even a pointer to a function and its arguments would presumably prevent the function and its arguments from being GCed...
02:44:43 <oerjan> Sgeo: the function itself is never GCed, as it's part of the program code...
02:45:23 <Sgeo> Its arguments, plus closure (what would that component be called? context?)
02:45:48 <Sgeo> Special kind of argument?
02:47:42 <oerjan> i think there's a little confusion here, i'm not really talking pointers to haskell functions, but to the C or assembly code used underneath.
02:47:46 <oerjan> *machine
02:48:37 <oerjan> and not just for haskell closures, but for arbitrary "enterable" boxes.
02:50:13 <oerjan> haskell closures of course are represented similarly, with the arguments to the C code dividing up into arguments for the closure itself and the "context" you mention
02:51:38 <oerjan> https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Commentary/Rts/Storage/HeapObjects#Typesofobject
02:53:40 <oerjan> "free variables" is the term used
02:56:15 -!- adu has joined.
02:56:56 <adu> ChanServ is so curteous.
02:57:44 <oerjan> the message is a changeable channel setting, anyway
02:58:50 <adu> I know, but most channel topics and the like are along the lines of "No pastes, use pasebin. Don't ask to ask, just ask. No LOL"
03:00:01 <oerjan> we're not big enough to need that kind much, i think
03:03:12 -!- visnu has joined.
03:04:15 <Bike> thankfully nobody asks to ask since most people here are jerks
03:04:31 <oerjan> wat
03:06:51 <zzo38> I agree you don't need to ask to ask, just ask; if you do ask to ask you should ask the intended question at the same time, atleast!!!
03:07:04 <Bike> should i
03:07:21 <oerjan> zzo38 lives by that motto
03:08:01 <adu> I'm not a big fan of any words that add little to no meaning to a sentance
03:08:06 <oerjan> Bike: should you what?
03:08:17 <oerjan> do what i just did?
03:08:37 <adu> oerjan: what did you just do?
03:08:43 <Bike> adu: 'm not fan'f meaningless words
03:09:31 <oerjan> Bike: are you drunk
03:09:38 <Bike> ye
03:09:43 <oerjan> i figured
03:12:17 <zzo38> I realized that using ARR #$FF helps me to save one cycle in the predicate decoding routine of this Famicom Z-machine implementation.
03:12:42 <oerjan> you cannot use that instruction, it's piracy
03:13:18 <zzo38> O no I can use it as much as I want to.
03:13:40 <oerjan> @arr shiver me timbers
03:13:41 <lambdabot> Ahoy mateys
03:13:42 <quintopia> oerjan: it's okay arrrrjan. i laughed
03:14:22 <adu> Bike: yey@
03:15:28 <quintopia> meaningless words are positively frabjous
03:29:56 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:30:05 -!- augur has joined.
03:44:41 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
03:50:42 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to wildebeest.
03:50:45 -!- wildebeest has changed nick to hyena.
03:50:51 -!- hyena has changed nick to copumpkin.
03:51:11 -!- visnu has quit (Quit: ThrashIRC v2.9 sic populo comunicated).
04:02:40 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
04:03:24 -!- nortti has joined.
04:11:31 -!- augur_ has joined.
04:12:11 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
04:17:15 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
04:18:19 -!- augur has joined.
04:49:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GML]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40255&oldid=40254 * Rdebath * (-94) Waste of time; YoYo GML is just a gutted C++ clone.
04:52:55 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
04:53:36 -!- elliott has joined.
05:03:06 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:21:26 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow).
06:03:31 -!- visnu has joined.
06:07:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Portal 2]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40256&oldid=40247 * Oerjan * (+0) gmr, bullets
06:24:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck bitwidth conversions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40257&oldid=31446 * Rdebath * (+724) The old code wasn't working; this code works and is very easy to prove at COMPILE time
06:31:20 <fizzie> Oh, the Portal 2 comment was about a thing in the wiki. That makes more sense.
06:31:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Darkgamma/SB2]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40258&oldid=40253 * Darkgamma * (+1) /* Variables */
06:33:14 -!- augur_ has joined.
06:33:25 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:35:55 <fizzie> The Wiki descriptions of Portal{, 2} are lacking the <> instructions.
06:36:39 <fizzie> And it's very confusing the way the official description uses the word "the pointer" interchangeably for the data and code pointers.
06:39:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck bitwidth conversions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40259&oldid=40257 * Rdebath * (+2) Regularise the pointer positions so that the > and < needed for cell double/quad code are in the code part.
06:39:11 <oerjan> going throuh the portal should switch those, surely
06:39:14 <oerjan> *+g
06:44:58 <fizzie> I don't know what "goging" means.
06:50:16 <oerjan> WELL LEAN SOM ENGLISH
06:57:17 -!- augur_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...).
07:08:46 <zzo38> The fact that bit0 of the flag register of 6502 corresponds to the carry flag, must be really useful. At least, it is useful to me.
07:14:40 <zzo38> This is an example of what I mean: http://sprunge.us/IHMF
07:15:11 <fizzie> Curiously enough, the carry flag is also bit 0 on the Z80 and the x86. Not that I've ever taken advantage of it.
07:15:46 <zzo38> Is it like that for the purpose of taking advantage of it?
07:15:56 <zzo38> Or is there a different reason?
07:22:11 <fizzie> I don't know. But it does make some sort of sense that you might want to get a 1 or 0 based on the carry flag.
07:22:30 <fizzie> (Though in x86 these days you could "setc al" no matter which bit it was.)
07:23:18 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
07:23:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
07:32:47 <zzo38> I am writing it in a 6502 code so you can't make "setc al", nor would it seem to help with what I did anyways.
07:34:08 <zzo38> (What I am doing is effectively trying to use two carry flags at once.)
07:43:15 -!- augur has joined.
07:43:38 -!- augur has changed nick to Guest19003.
07:43:52 -!- Guest19003 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:45:09 -!- augur_ has joined.
07:45:49 <zzo38> Is my program sensible to you?
07:49:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40260&oldid=40082 * Rdebath * (+2069) /* Sandbox -- Evil tables */ new section
07:49:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GML]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40261&oldid=40255 * GermanyBoy * (+206) YoYo GML is not a C++ clone, and even if it was, it is still a language.
07:51:54 -!- visnu has left ("Silentium est aureum").
07:52:34 -!- edwardk has joined.
07:55:00 -!- edwardk has quit (Client Quit).
07:56:53 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:58:56 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:05:02 -!- augur_ has joined.
08:12:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Dc]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40262&oldid=40236 * Rdebath * (+1) Fix the fake pipe
08:15:12 -!- Patashu has joined.
08:18:20 <fizzie> Well, I'm not much of a 6502 person. But I did catch the summation of two carry flags. I don't know the "<foo" notation, though. Low byte of a symbol?
08:22:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40263&oldid=40131 * Rdebath * (+86) /* Performance Matrix */
08:22:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services).
08:22:15 -!- Patashu_ has joined.
08:23:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40264&oldid=40263 * Rdebath * (-31) /* Performance Matrix */
08:24:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40265&oldid=40264 * Rdebath * (+14) /* Performance Matrix */
08:25:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40266&oldid=40265 * Rdebath * (+87) /* Current Version of the awk based converter */
08:25:49 <b_jonas> zzo38: how is it useful for you that the carry flag is in bit 0? I admit I don't really remember much of how the 6502 works.
08:26:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40267&oldid=40266 * Rdebath * (-1) /* Current Version of the awk based converter */
08:30:34 -!- mhi^ has joined.
08:35:00 <fizzie> b_jonas: You can push the flags, pull them to the accumulator and and with 1; then you can do an add-with-carry operation to essentially increment something by 0, 1 or 2 depending on two "carry flags".
08:35:16 <fizzie> b_jonas: At least something approximately like that seemed to be going on.
08:39:44 <b_jonas> fizzie: but can't you also just LDA #0; ADC #0; to load the carry flag more easily? on the 6502, apparently the load and bitwise instructions don't change the carry flag, but change other flags.
08:40:21 <b_jonas> is push-pull-and faster?
08:42:27 <b_jonas> or alternately, maybe just push the flags, do the other operation, then do the first increment, then pop flags, then do an ADC #0
08:43:45 <b_jonas> wait, there's an even better way
08:44:19 <b_jonas> LDA #0; ROL; loads the carry flag too, and is one byte shorter. or is the rotate operation too slow in runtime?
08:44:29 <fizzie> It changes the carry flag.
08:44:32 <fizzie> As does adc.
08:45:26 <b_jonas> ADC changes the carry flag of course, I'm saying LDA or XOR doesn't. let me check another manual thouhg
08:45:29 <fizzie> I guess you could at that point push it, and only then do whatever it is you want to do to get the second carry flag, though.
08:45:45 <fizzie> The bitwise operations don't, that is correct.
08:46:23 <b_jonas> hmm no, ROL is no good, it takes way more time than ADC
08:46:34 <b_jonas> (slow shifts. sounds like the 386.)
08:46:52 <fizzie> All those do involve wasting the value that was in a after you computed whatever it was to get that first carry flag, though.
08:47:08 <fizzie> (The php-pla-and #1 sequence doesn't.)
08:47:29 <b_jonas> oh, you mean you want to keep the carry flag and store it?
08:47:32 <b_jonas> why?
08:47:52 <fizzie> Not the carry flag, the value in A, for further use.
08:47:58 <b_jonas> oh
08:48:07 <fizzie> The "php" just stores it sneakily, and then you can continue on with whatever.
08:49:01 <b_jonas> makes sense
08:49:32 <fizzie> And "pla; and #1" is clearly shorter than something like "plp; lda #0; adc #0" that you'd have to do to if the carry flag wasn't bit 0.
08:49:42 <fizzie> Disclaimer: I'm not the one making the claim it's a useful property.
08:50:21 <b_jonas> I thought you'd do the first addition, store the accumulator, then do the LDA #0; ADC #0; to get the carry flag, save it, but I guess what you're saying could make sense sometimes
08:50:44 -!- augur__ has joined.
08:51:39 <fizzie> I guess it avoids one instance of "store the accumulator, then restore when the carry flag is safe".
08:53:25 -!- augur_ has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer).
08:53:26 -!- mhi^ has quit (Ping timeout: 266 seconds).
08:53:34 -!- qlkzy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 266 seconds).
08:53:38 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 266 seconds).
08:54:01 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
08:54:19 -!- Deewiant has joined.
08:55:10 -!- mhi^ has joined.
08:56:12 -!- qlkzy has joined.
08:56:36 -!- Zuu has joined.
08:56:56 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
08:57:00 -!- Zuu has changed nick to Guest50711.
09:02:58 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
09:25:53 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
09:29:07 <Sgeo> http://blog.dota2.com/wp-includes/js/jquery/jquery.js
09:40:39 -!- TieSoul has joined.
09:48:03 -!- ais523_ has joined.
09:52:43 -!- edwardk has joined.
10:02:31 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
10:15:36 -!- ais523 has joined.
10:20:37 -!- ais523 has quit.
10:20:39 -!- callforjudgement has joined.
10:28:52 <TieSoul> Hey guys
10:30:45 <callforjudgement> hi TieSoul
10:33:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
10:37:32 <fizzie> How goes the Befunge?
10:37:39 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:37:52 -!- callforjudgement has joined.
10:39:28 <TieSoul> well
10:39:39 <TieSoul> I can't figure out why Mycology says my } isn't working.
10:40:40 <TieSoul> here's the code for it: http://bpaste.net/show/rHfjWmCOwBCIh3eY7NGi/
10:40:55 <TieSoul> I've also tested it and it seems to be working correctly.
10:41:33 <TieSoul> it says it doesn't transfer correctly
10:42:40 <TieSoul> oh wait
10:42:55 <TieSoul> I think my code for if n > ip.stackstack[-1].length is wrong.
10:43:52 <fizzie> Yes, I was about to say so. It seems to prepend 0s to the SOSS itself, not the copied block.
10:44:24 <TieSoul> yeah
10:45:44 <TieSoul> so after fixing this Mycology still says it transfers incorrectly.
10:46:08 <fizzie> Also not sure about the number of 0s. If n is 5 and ip.stackstack[-1].length is 3, (n-ip.stackstack[-1].length-1) = (5-3-1) = 1 zero, not two.
10:47:36 <TieSoul> mhm, I fixed that too
10:47:44 <TieSoul> mycology still BADs
10:48:01 <TieSoul> there are no BADs before that btw
10:49:31 <TieSoul> oh also I found a minor Mycology bug, it has three dots that are supposed to be in stringmode but aren't.
10:50:31 <TieSoul> in a corrupt stackstack error
10:54:04 <fizzie> Heh, so it seems.
10:55:27 <fizzie> @tell Deewiant mycology.b98, line 72, columns 128..148 (1-based): "upt stack stack"...a should presumably have the ... inside string mode.
10:55:28 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
10:55:32 <fizzie> Best to report these things.
10:56:56 <TieSoul> alright, so do you know what could cause that BAD? I think my } code works correctly now.
10:57:42 <fizzie> I didn't catch anything in the code. Of course, I didn't see the new one. (Which BAD message it was, exactly?)
10:58:04 <Deewiant> Is there an @clear-messages or something
10:58:05 <Deewiant> @messages
10:58:09 <TieSoul> BAD: } transfers cells incorrectly
10:58:23 <TieSoul> Stopping due to fear of corrupt stack stack...
10:59:26 <Deewiant> fizzie: Fixed as of Thu Nov 1 13:44:46 2012 +0200
10:59:35 <fizzie> Oh.
10:59:41 <fizzie> Is my version that old?
10:59:54 <fizzie> I just went with what I had unzipped in ~/tmp/mycology/ in ages past.
10:59:55 <TieSoul> new code here http://bpaste.net/show/N1asth8vqyMpcvvZ8SP3/
11:00:09 <TieSoul> What? I just redownloaded Mycology and it had that in
11:00:13 <fizzie> (Also the command is exactly @clear-messages.)
11:00:37 <fizzie> "The latest version, 2010–04–01".
11:00:43 <Deewiant> It's possibly I haven't made a newer release
11:02:41 <Deewiant> http://sprunge.us/iGNa anyway that's what you're missing so it's not a big deal
11:03:36 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
11:09:29 <fizzie> !befunge98 9876543215{$$$$$$542}......@
11:09:30 <EgoBot> 4 5 6 7 8 9
11:09:55 <fizzie> TieSoul: You get the same output from the above? It's the simplified version of what mycology tests, though it also does the storage offset tests that complicate things.
11:10:20 <fizzie> (And all those $s are actually w's testing the {.)
11:10:31 <TieSoul> No I don't, I get 4 5 5 6 7 8 for some reason
11:10:58 <fizzie> Curious. Well, that's a lot simpler test case, at least.
11:11:04 <TieSoul> http://bpaste.net/show/4rf9GJaJDTOBCpZfPtBX/
11:11:12 <TieSoul> here is the debug mode output for that program
11:11:58 <fizzie> Hrm, that 5 is left in both the TOSS and SOSS.
11:12:21 <fizzie> "Stack: [5, 4, 3, 2, 1]" "SOSS: [9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 0, 0]" around line 115.
11:12:31 <fizzie> Perhaps double-check your {, then.
11:13:07 <TieSoul> mhm
11:14:18 <fizzie> Mycology seems to be kind of testing both the { and the } simultaneously there, in that it looks for 4 5 6 7 8 9 where the "4 5" is transferred with 2} and the "6 7 8 9" should be left behind by the earlier 5{.
11:15:33 <TieSoul> ip.stackstack[-2] = ip.stackstack[-2][0..-n] is where the error lies
11:15:45 <TieSoul> changing that to ip.stackstack[-2] = ip.stackstack[-2][0..-n-1] should fix the error
11:16:05 <TieSoul> wait
11:16:06 <TieSoul> no
11:16:08 <TieSoul> that's not it
11:17:45 <TieSoul> oh wait that was it
11:17:46 <TieSoul> lol
11:18:06 <TieSoul> phew, no errors in u
11:18:10 <TieSoul> now to implement y.
11:31:52 -!- edwardk has joined.
11:37:15 <fizzie> I wouldn't mind if there was something simpler than {0{2un02-u0} or some-such to do "{ except no storage offset change". (The quoted bit is not even really that; that would be something uglier like fyey0{2u\0{2u0} for 0{ or even worse for a non-zero argument of {.)
11:37:55 <fizzie> (Assuming I could make myself to use the stack stack in the first place, that is.)
11:41:05 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
11:51:10 -!- edwardk has joined.
11:51:22 -!- yorick has joined.
11:52:25 <fizzie> Aw, there's a Famous Guy giving a talk on the current state-of-the-art in speech synthesis, and I'm going to miss it. :/
11:52:26 <Deewiant> I found { useful in some of the fingerprint tests in mycology, possibly just because the y coordinate was getting tediously big
11:54:14 <ais523_> ooh, I had a great idea for representing fungespace in an interpreter
11:54:19 <ais523_> map fungespace to your address space
11:54:39 <ais523_> then whenever you want to access a particular area of space, you mmap an allocation over it if the memory's currently unaddressable
11:54:45 <fizzie> That sounds vaguely familiar.
11:54:55 <ais523_> would probably require reducing the size of an int to, say, 24
11:55:21 <fizzie> Possibly even less than that, since there's only 47 bits of userland address space on Typical Systems.
11:55:52 <fizzie> (And perhaps you'd want to use some of it for, say, the program.)
11:58:09 <ais523_> oh, I was assuming the entire 64-bit address space could be logical addresses, if not physical
11:58:20 <ais523_> if you don't even get logical access to most of it, that makes things worse
11:58:27 <fizzie> Sadly, no. The 48-bit canonical address restriction applies to virtual addresses.
11:58:44 <fizzie> Otherwise it wouldn't save in the number of page table hierarchy levels you'd need.
11:58:59 <fizzie> (And address translation hardware and whatnot.)
11:59:05 <TieSoul> what is this team number thing btw?
11:59:23 <Deewiant> A relic, ignore it
11:59:30 <TieSoul> so I can just push 0
11:59:31 <TieSoul> ?
11:59:38 <Deewiant> Yep
11:59:44 <TieSoul> alright
12:00:17 -!- augur has joined.
12:00:31 <ais523_> I disagree, I am closed to convinced that ccbi and cfunge are on different teams
12:00:41 -!- augur has changed nick to Guest90901.
12:00:42 -!- augur__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:00:50 <Deewiant> Haha, perhaps
12:00:54 <fizzie> While it's not quite kosher spec-wise, I'm sure a reasonable number of actual programs would run even in systems where the (potential) funge-space dimensions don't match the cell size.
12:01:06 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:01:22 <fizzie> (Also if you just mask out higher bits, you get an interesting space where the contents are duplicated in a grid-like thing.)
12:01:40 -!- Guest90901 has changed nick to augur_.
12:01:43 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
12:01:45 <fizzie> Analogous to having ROM pages visible at several addresses or whatnot.
12:02:03 <ais523_> that /would/ break many programs, if a lahey-line happened to hit one of the copies
12:02:14 <TieSoul> I think I'll call my interpreter RubyFunge
12:02:22 <TieSoul> then I can have the handprint RUFU
12:02:32 <TieSoul> :P
12:02:39 <Deewiant> Your handprint doesn't have to match your interpreter's name
12:03:13 <TieSoul> I know
12:03:24 <TieSoul> But I want it to
12:03:25 <TieSoul> :P
12:03:47 <fizzie> ais523_: Possibly not as much for non-flying deltas.
12:03:51 <TieSoul> how do you convert it again?
12:04:02 <ais523_> fizzie: was trying to work that out
12:04:15 <ais523_> orthogonals would be OK, but even diagonals would be bad
12:04:23 <fizzie> !perl print unpack('N', 'RUFU');
12:04:23 <EgoBot> 1381320277
12:04:33 <TieSoul> thanks
12:05:17 <TieSoul> what should I push as cell size? Ruby automatically uses bignums on overflow.
12:05:20 <fizzie> There are no x's in fungot either, I'm (again) "proud" to say.
12:05:20 <fungot> fizzie: you can always make a subclass called fnord and writes img fnord" in the list. i guess
12:05:38 <fizzie> Perhaps I shouldn't be so terribly proud of being unable to leverage the language features.
12:05:39 <TieSoul> should I push -1?
12:05:55 <Deewiant> -1 and 0 have been the two typically used with bignums, IIRC
12:06:06 <ais523_> is the fungespace also bignum?
12:06:22 <ais523_> -1 seems like the best option, though, it's infinity in one's complement
12:06:30 <ais523_> I guess 0 is infinity in two's complement
12:06:58 <Deewiant> fizzie: There should be a program that starts with a diagonal x and uses only ] and [ to change delta from then on
12:07:15 <TieSoul> yes, it is ais
12:07:27 <fizzie> fungot: How would you feel like being tilted 45 degrees?
12:07:27 <fungot> fizzie: i laughed out load at pikhq's last-but-one sentence in which you evaluate the whole thing from the outside?
12:08:18 <ais523_> now I'm wondering what pikhq's last-but-one sentence is
12:08:25 <ais523_> but without the logs in HackEgo, it's hard to tell
12:09:34 <Deewiant> On this channel, I believe it's 2014-07-20 03:15:13+0300 pikhq As it only uses lines that are on the cartridge port, you could just have a weird cartridge with a parallel port on it.
12:09:35 <fizzie> ais523_: It was in fact you doing the laughing, so you ought to remember.
12:09:57 <ais523_> fizzie: not sure if I remember everything I've laughed at in the past
12:09:57 <fizzie> ais523_: You also got a funny look from the person sitting next to you.
12:10:27 <ais523_> also I've got in trouble for laughing too much at #esoteric before now
12:10:54 <fizzie> Helpful log fairy: http://sprunge.us/VdiZ
12:11:31 <TieSoul> "As it only uses lines that are on the cartridge port, you could just have a weird cartridge with a parallel port on it."
12:11:41 <TieSoul> oh well someone already got it
12:12:11 <ais523_> fizzie: well, the line in question made me laugh /again/
12:12:14 <ais523_> so, I guess it's funny
12:13:28 <ais523_> I guess what you could do instead
12:13:35 <ais523_> would be for if(x); to set a global flag
12:13:41 <ais523_> then(y); to run y if the flag was true
12:13:47 <ais523_> else(z); to run z if the flag was false
12:13:51 <ais523_> doesn't FORTH do something like that?
12:16:06 <ais523_> the sane option is of course if_else(x,y,z);
12:19:01 <fizzie> FORTH syntax is <condition> IF <true-branch> ELSE <false-branch> THEN
12:19:19 <ais523_> right
12:19:35 <ais523_> this is the point where someone explains it to me again because I know it's for a good reason but I can't remember what it is
12:20:17 <fizzie> And it's all just jumps. The IF word pops a value, and jumps past the matching ELSE/THEN word if it was false, otherwise proceeds.
12:20:41 <ais523_> ah right, I did some searching of my own
12:20:50 <ais523_> and it's written the way it is because the else is optional
12:20:54 <fizzie> Yes.
12:21:09 <fizzie> <condition> IF <true-branch> THEN is also just fine.
12:21:20 <fizzie> gforth (IIRC) provides a (recommended?) alias of "ENDIF" for "THEN".
12:21:58 <fizzie> Which makes it a IF b ENDIF or a IF b ELSE c ENDIF depending on if an else is present.
12:22:55 <fizzie> Must be recommended, since the non-reference section of the manual on selection statements -- https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Docs-html/Selection.html -- only mentions the ENDIF.
12:22:57 <ais523_> this page also suggests that it's idiomatic to use + for boolean-or, and AND for boolean-and
12:23:08 <fizzie> Oh, it's there, I just missed it.
12:23:15 <ais523_> oh, I guess this is because true is -1
12:23:21 <fizzie> "You can use THEN instead of ENDIF. Indeed, THEN is standard, and ENDIF is not, although it is quite popular. We recommend using ENDIF, because it is less confusing for people who also know other languages (and is not prone to reinforcing negative prejudices against Forth in these people)."
12:23:23 <ais523_> (-1 * -1) + -1 is 0
12:23:43 -!- Patashu has joined.
12:23:52 <ais523_> so you need at least one of AND and OR in order to get working logicals
12:24:15 <ais523_> but you don't need both because you can get the other one via arithmetic
12:24:26 <ais523_> I guess there's also the chance of integer overflow if you use both + and * on booleans
12:24:42 <ais523_> and because addition is cheaper than multiplication, I guess you use + and AND
12:25:37 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
12:26:44 -!- edwardk has joined.
12:28:16 -!- visnu has joined.
12:30:11 -!- visnu has left.
12:33:53 <TieSoul> huh? Mycology says z takes 0 ticks when it doesn't and 5kz takes more than 3 ticks when it takes exactly 3.
12:35:56 <Deewiant> It's testing that multiple IPs are properly in sync, any number of things could be wrong
12:36:00 <fizzie> !forth true 64 0 [?do] dup + [loop] . true 64 0 [?do] dup or [loop] .
12:36:00 <EgoBot> 0 -1
12:36:13 <fizzie> ais523_: ^ it's still a bit of a problem.
12:36:39 <ais523_> I need to get better at Forth, really
12:36:55 <ais523_> one idea I've had is a completely from-the-metal compiler stack where everything that happens can easily be manually inspected
12:36:58 <ais523_> using minimal compilers, etc.
12:37:35 <ais523_> I was planning to start with 6502 machine code because it's a) reasonably legible, b) there are /tons/ of emulators, c) the bare metal is not impossible to find, d) it's old enough that it's unlikely to have a strong AI in it rewriting any programs that run to include backdoors
12:38:01 <ais523_> actually, we can probably assume that there's a certain filesize below which strong AI is impossible, that would make things easier
12:41:38 <Taneb> 17 bytes
12:42:44 <ais523_> that may be too small to do other, useful, non-strong-AI things, though
12:48:26 <TieSoul> woo, I made it through Mycology with only a few BADs :D
12:48:51 <TieSoul> http://bpaste.net/show/Te5ks6DC5LQiEgfBvyYU/
12:48:57 <TieSoul> here's the output :D
12:49:57 <TieSoul> oh btw you can see my environment variables because I forgot to snip lol
12:50:12 <TieSoul> not that I mind terribly
12:52:11 <TieSoul> well then, now my Ruby implementation is better than my Python one was :P
12:53:30 <Deewiant> TieSoul: FWIW I've planned to make that topmost UNDEF a BAD, just haven't got around to it
12:54:20 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:56:45 <Deewiant> Those 0 outputs from BASE also seem questionable
12:57:32 <TieSoul> I set it to output 0 if it encounters an ArgumentError
12:58:06 <Deewiant> Reflection would make more sense
12:58:54 <ais523_> hmm, I've had an idea for a Mycology test
12:59:03 -!- augur has joined.
12:59:08 <ais523_> get the int size from y; place " signs at opposite ends of the playfield
12:59:15 <ais523_> then see how many spaces the resulting string contains
12:59:27 -!- augur has changed nick to Guest17804.
12:59:39 <Deewiant> Not portable due to bignum interpreters
12:59:46 -!- Guest17804 has changed nick to augur_.
12:59:54 <Deewiant> There's already UNDEF: the empty string wrapped around the edge of space contains 1 character(s) (hopefully spaces)
12:59:59 <ais523_> you could UNDEF it on those
13:00:02 <ais523_> yeah, that UNDEF is what inspired me
13:00:08 <ais523_> it might be different if you hit the edge of the playfield
13:00:14 <Deewiant> Yeah, fair enough
13:01:10 <TieSoul> I made it actually output unary (00000...) and reflect on all other unrecognized bases now.
13:02:43 <TieSoul> see http://bpaste.net/show/cANhkUMEU3eQTolZXhbj/
13:03:33 <ais523_> hmm, perhaps Befunge2K would work better if all instructions had a random chance of reflecting, rather than if all instructions had a random chance of doing nothing
13:03:44 <ais523_> because in the latter version, ; was still 100% reliable
13:03:59 <Deewiant> In the former version, r is still 100% reliable ;-)
13:04:36 <ais523_> yeah, but that's what you'd expect from the semantics
13:04:39 <ais523_> rather than being a special case
13:04:58 <ais523_> it's an interesting thought experiment, though, trying to write 100% reliable Funge-98 programs if the instructions themselves are unreliable
13:05:12 <ais523_> because I vaguely liked the concept of Java2K, but the implementation is awful
13:05:19 <ais523_> so I wanted to make a better language
13:05:32 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
13:05:59 <Deewiant> Note that ; is a marker instead of an instruction, like space
13:06:30 <TieSoul> RubyFunge is so much faster than my Python implementation :P
13:06:57 <ais523_> Deewiant: yes, that's why I felt OK special-casing it
13:07:22 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*).
13:07:35 -!- Frooxius has joined.
13:07:35 -!- Froox has joined.
13:08:21 -!- Froox has quit (Client Quit).
13:08:33 <ais523_> !c int foo(void){}; int main(void){if(0) {asm volatile("comefrom foo"); puts("test");} foo(); return 0;}
13:08:37 <EgoBot> No output.
13:08:43 <ais523_> hmm
13:09:03 <ais523_> does it normally do that on invalid programs? I forgot the colons
13:09:13 <ais523_> !c int foo(void){}; int main(void){if(0) {asm volatile("comefrom foo" : : ); puts("test");} foo(); puts("bar"); return 0;}
13:09:15 <EgoBot> No output.
13:09:24 <ais523_> !c int main(void){
13:09:26 <EgoBot> Does not compile.
13:09:44 <ais523_> now I'm confused :-(
13:09:57 <ais523_> !c int main(void){puts("Hello, world!"); return 0;}
13:09:59 <EgoBot> No output.
13:10:00 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:10:13 <ais523_> !c puts("Hello, world!");
13:10:15 <EgoBot> Hello, world!
13:10:23 <ais523_> ah right, I guess I redefined main inside main, then didn't run it
13:10:41 <ais523_> !c int foo(void){}; if(0) {asm volatile("comefrom foo" : : ); puts("test");} foo(); puts("bar"); return 0;
13:10:43 <EgoBot> bar
13:10:47 <ais523_> OK
13:10:52 -!- perrier has joined.
13:15:42 <ais523_> !c int main(void) {puts("test");} main();
13:15:44 <EgoBot> test
13:16:06 <ais523_> !c int main(void) {int main(void) {puts("another test");} puts("test"); main();} main();
13:16:08 <EgoBot> test \ another test
13:16:19 <ais523_> this seems useful for the IOCCC, even though it isn't standard
13:17:53 <fizzie> There's an automatic main wrapper in !c? Didn't remember that.
13:18:39 <fizzie> Also didn't know that GCC nested functions can have the same name as the containing function, though in retrospect it's reasonable enough, since variables can, too.
13:21:07 <ais523_> fizzie: I didn't think there was either, but that should be conclusive proof
13:21:26 <TieSoul> hrm
13:21:43 <ais523_> anyway, there was some debate over whether compilers should be required to optimise out asm statements in untaken conditionals
13:21:55 <TieSoul> when Mycology loads ROMA then MODU it says M reflects, but when I try it in a test program it works fine.
13:21:59 <ais523_> whatever compiler EgoBot's using (presumably gcc) seems to, at least, even with asm volatile
13:22:36 <ais523_> it shouldn't be optimizing out my comefrom statement :-(
13:25:10 <TieSoul> "AMOR"4("UDOM"4(#@M.@ outputs 0 in my implementation but Mycology says M reflects in this case.
13:26:30 <ais523_> !funge98 "AMOR"4("UDOM"4(#@M.@
13:26:42 <TieSoul> !befunge98 "AMOR"4("UDOM"4(#@M.@
13:26:43 <EgoBot> 0
13:26:46 <ais523_> ah right
13:27:24 <TieSoul> "AMOR"4("UDOM"4(#@\M.@
13:27:28 <TieSoul> oops
13:27:32 <TieSoul> !befunge98 "AMOR"4("UDOM"4(#@\M.@
13:27:32 <EgoBot> 1
13:27:52 <TieSoul> this also outputs 1 in my interpreter
13:29:10 <TieSoul> !befunge98 "AMOR"4("UDOM"4(#@\M."UDOM"4)#@M."AMOR"4)#@M.@
13:29:10 <EgoBot> 1 1000
13:29:50 <TieSoul> also does this in RubyFunge
13:31:02 <Deewiant> !befunge98 "AMOR"4("UDOM"4(n#@M.@
13:31:03 <EgoBot> 0
13:31:21 <Deewiant> Perhaps that makes a difference?
13:31:43 <TieSoul> hrm
13:31:45 <TieSoul> lemme see
13:32:04 <TieSoul> yup, that seems to reflect
13:32:31 <TieSoul> I accidentally made it reflect if a == 0
13:32:41 <TieSoul> b == 0*
13:33:57 <TieSoul> okay now it's all GOODs
13:33:59 <TieSoul> :D
13:34:07 <TieSoul> that part anyway
13:34:49 <TieSoul> I like how you unload ROMA and then M has ROMA semantics :P
13:36:30 <Deewiant> That was an important test for some interpreter IIRC, likely RC/Funge-98
13:39:09 <TieSoul> http://bpaste.net/show/aUqZJFMrDzTbpc8jIduD/
13:39:10 <TieSoul> :P
13:42:48 <TieSoul> When MODE is unloaded, should hover/invert/switch/queuemode be disabled?
13:43:09 <TieSoul> and should other IPs inherit those modes in concurrent Funge?
13:44:15 <ais523_> Deewiant: why are you looking for unloaded commands on the playfield?
13:44:26 <Deewiant> ais523_: That's output from his interpreter
13:44:32 <Deewiant> TieSoul: Somewhat UNDEF, though I'd suggest no and yes respectively
13:44:35 <TieSoul> I meant "encountered"
13:44:45 <ais523_> Deewiant: oh, right
13:44:50 <TieSoul> going to change it to that too
13:45:42 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed).
13:51:20 -!- Guest50711 has changed nick to Zuu.
13:51:22 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host).
13:51:22 -!- Zuu has joined.
13:53:04 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
14:35:47 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
14:37:04 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
14:44:33 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
14:59:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BytePusher]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40268&oldid=40227 * Nucular * (+108) New VM implementation
15:13:16 -!- MoALTz has joined.
15:15:58 -!- nucular has joined.
15:25:17 -!- mhi^ has joined.
15:32:39 -!- mihow has joined.
15:42:41 <TieSoul> http://www.reddit.com/r/counting/ < this has got to be the best place on the internet.
15:43:16 <elliott> I find that unlikely for a place starting with reddit.com
15:43:39 <elliott> okay this is pretty terrifying
15:44:44 <elliott> http://www.reddit.com/r/counting/comments/2bj5fg/live_counting/ ...
15:44:46 <Bike> this is a good subreddit
15:44:58 <Bike> We reached 10k today (Congratulations to /u/KingCaspianX for the get).
15:45:05 <elliott> I think these people have even emptier lives than I do.
15:45:13 <Bike> live
15:45:14 <Bike> ~10 viewers
15:53:20 <Phantom_Hoover> they seem to have given up
15:54:38 <TieSoul> Not in the normal counting threads
16:05:01 <Phantom_Hoover> oh huh
16:05:07 <Phantom_Hoover> reddit killed the epic thread
16:17:21 <quintopia> oshit a NEW implementation of bytepusher?
16:18:36 <quintopia> well JsBP works but the audio is terrible :/
16:21:09 <nucular> yep
16:21:22 <nucular> also hi :P
16:21:28 <quintopia> hi
16:25:38 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: killed howso?
16:27:05 <Phantom_Hoover> they changed the archiving logic, now you can't reply to a comment if the original submission's over 6 months old
16:28:25 <elliott> oh, yeah
16:44:23 <TieSoul> what epic thread?
17:00:02 <zzo38> I have now read the replies to my message about the carry flag in bit0. I can tell you that using shift/rotate instructions on the accumulator is not slow; it is slow if operating on memory.
17:01:19 <zzo38> Also, in MagicKit, the < prefix means zero-page operation.
17:06:34 -!- vjoba has joined.
17:07:08 <Phantom_Hoover> TieSoul, google 'epic thread reddit', that should help
17:12:08 -!- vjoba has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.").
17:21:25 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
17:21:49 -!- Bike has joined.
17:31:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stapler]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40269 * Mobac * (+2699) Created page with "'' 'Staple' '' - [[esoteric programming language]], created in 2011 [http://speccy.info/Kakos_nonos Alexander Zavgorodny]. On the official website there is documentation on ..."
18:21:55 -!- edwardk has joined.
18:24:33 -!- shikhin has joined.
18:30:18 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:34:46 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
18:40:55 -!- shikhout has joined.
18:44:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services).
18:44:24 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin.
18:49:24 -!- augur has joined.
18:50:04 -!- augur has changed nick to Guest80630.
18:50:43 -!- Guest80630 has changed nick to augur_.
19:12:45 -!- drlemon has joined.
19:21:36 -!- turtlemansam has joined.
19:21:52 -!- turtlemansam has quit (Excess Flood).
19:22:22 -!- turtlemansam has joined.
19:28:48 -!- turtlemansam has quit (Excess Flood).
19:29:18 -!- turtlemansam has joined.
20:07:57 -!- turtlemansam has quit (Quit: join #penisball for a good time).
20:23:20 -!- impomatic_ has joined.
20:25:33 * impomatic_ is trying to archive a website which will disappear soon and is getting rather annoyed.
20:26:50 <impomatic_> It's in Polish and the text looks slightly different to the original when viewed on archive.org
20:27:33 <impomatic_> Some characters change, e.g. "Podstaw" -> "Podstaw?"
20:28:39 <elliott> sounds like an encoding issue
20:32:04 <impomatic_> That question mark displays as an a-ogonek here.
20:32:43 * impomatic_ wonders if the browser sometimes picks a charset depending on the TLD.
20:33:23 <zzo38> Regardless, if the header (or META, for HTML documents) specifies a charset it should use that one instead if possible.
20:33:57 <elliott> it's http header stuff.
20:34:04 <elliott> you can probably adjust the charset used in your browser's menus
20:36:49 <impomatic_> The header specifies Windows-1250 so I don't understand why it displays differently. I'll convert it to UTF-8 when I figure which is correct...
20:55:07 -!- `^_^v has joined.
20:55:54 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow).
20:59:46 -!- `^_^v has changed nick to nycs.
21:04:52 -!- Patashu has joined.
21:25:22 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:32:24 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:37:32 -!- mihow has joined.
21:52:31 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:00:11 <oerjan> @tell Deewiant <Deewiant> Is there an @clear-messages or something <-- yes.
22:00:12 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:00:30 <oerjan> @cl
22:00:31 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: clear-auto-reply clear-messages clear-topic pl
22:00:39 <oerjan> hmph
22:00:42 <oerjan> @clear-m
22:00:43 <lambdabot> Messages cleared.
22:03:03 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Client Quit) (Don't be sad).
22:17:17 <Melvar> shachaf, oerjan, Bike: I have found out about U+EF01 in DejaVu Sans, namely that it and the surrounding glyphs are pieces to compose tone contours with. This particular one appears to be the high-to-extrahigh element used for the sequence ˦˥ , which compare with  .
22:19:53 <oerjan> i'll like point out i cannot read most of your other characters either
22:19:56 <oerjan> *+to
22:25:00 <Melvar> `unidecode ˦˥
22:25:01 <HackEgo> ​[U+02E6 MODIFIER LETTER HIGH TONE BAR] [U+02E5 MODIFIER LETTER EXTRA-HIGH TONE BAR]
22:58:37 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow).
23:01:08 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:02:21 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined.
23:08:18 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
23:09:32 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:16:08 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
23:19:02 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
23:20:16 -!- MoALTz__ has joined.
23:22:27 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
23:22:55 -!- augur has joined.
23:24:07 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
23:34:31 * oerjan made a comment on the sillies /r/counting thread he found
23:34:35 <oerjan> *+t
←2014-08-05 2014-08-06 2014-08-07→ ↑2014 ↑all