< 1409702749 993658 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409703134 853928 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:747d:ad1e:b403:310e JOIN :#esoteric < 1409703282 419447 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`danddreclist 56 < 1409703283 28311 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :danddreclist 56: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex < 1409704781 337559 :tromp__!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409704887 460004 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1409706662 499481 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@adsl-ull-56-52.42-151.net24.it QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1409707575 353065 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@adsl-ull-216-52.42-151.net24.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1409708777 944794 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.87.20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409712085 97481 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:747d:ad1e:b403:310e NICK :^8 < 1409712791 219032 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Wordfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40386&oldid=40327 5* 03Imaginer1 5* (-2) 10 < 1409712936 441324 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Imaginer114]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40387&oldid=40384 5* 03Imaginer1 5* (+115) 10 < 1409714186 583784 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1409716157 523029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Nat < 1409716159 140826 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Nat’ < 1409716400 712598 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@instances Monoid < 1409716402 170965 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(), (a -> b), (a, b), (a, b, c), All, Any, Dual a, Endo a, First a, Last a, Maybe a, Ordering, Product a, Sum a, [a] < 1409716428 108240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nothing suitably lazy < 1409716463 511124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think of instance (Monoid m, Applicative f) => Monoid (f m) where mempty = pure mempty; mappend = liftA2 mappend < 1409716474 691836 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than the obvious incompatibility with a bunch of monoid instances < 1409716506 249606 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say no due to possible incompatibility (even though, it is in fact a correct monoid) < 1409716513 742915 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a newtype wrapper, I suppose < 1409716518 479461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you pick m = () and f = [] you get Nat but with multiplication instead of addition < 1409716542 667198 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you pick m = () and f = ZipList you get Nat but with min and +infty as your monoid < 1409716551 955438 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo those are p. good monoids < 1409716553 439149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that i need the special property of Nat that (1 + undefined) + 1 >= 2 < 1409716588 410981 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.87.20 QUIT : < 1409716619 706513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was trying to see if i could find in reasonably "standard" modules a counterexample to typeclassopedia's claim that foldMap f = foldMap f . toList < 1409716624 25185 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, those are ways to make up monoids < 1409716642 777031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to construct one, but i don't see how to do it without defining a new instance < 1409716652 248661 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think someone has made a "monoid transformers" library which does exactly that; transforms a monoid with an applicative to make a new monoid. < 1409716689 939294 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way i mean Conat not Nat of course < 1409716694 390006 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though they're the same < 1409716694 656154 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 + undefined) + 1 >= 2 is hard to achieve in practice. I guess you can use the unambiguous choice operator to get therer. < 1409716743 790508 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm oh maybe it isn't true for the Nat i'm thinking od < 1409716744 955134 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait. you're using S x + y = S (y + x) < 1409716745 296797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of < 1409716763 407139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i realized that's not quite enough < 1409716801 53887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you reversed them < 1409716803 601401 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work < 1409716810 67555 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do you get a monoid then? < 1409716811 363795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but feels like cheating < 1409716820 410062 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I,I S-expressions < 1409716877 17286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe foldMap f = foldMap f . toList _is_ true for well-ordered foldables < 1409716889 953649 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 + _|_) + 1 = S S undefined, but 1 + (_|_ + 1) = 1 + _|_ = S _|_ < 1409716900 901139 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well-ordered? < 1409716913 189959 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/undefined/_|_/, I missed one instance < 1409716916 682981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's easy to break with Last and a reverse list foldable < 1409716923 4775 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1409716932 555517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you only have finite Foldables then it's true. < 1409716934 778578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm having trouble doing it with Data.Tree < 1409716951 6819 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean a tree which is undefined in the middle? < 1409716963 856340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if int-e's S x + y = S (y + x) really _does_ work < 1409717014 563197 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a monoid, so all bets are off. < 1409717031 332990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1409717072 526797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking let n = Node 1 $ repeat (Node 0 []) in Node 1 $ repeat n as the counterexample tree < 1409717088 752197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :toList will only contain the first two 1's < 1409717116 6646 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you could write a sufficiently lazy Nat to pick up the rest... < 1409717143 609158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the point was to use only pre-existing Foldables and Monoids < 1409717173 708161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except not Last? < 1409717294 763005 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how about this one Monoid a => Monoid (Maybe a) ... Just x <> Just y = Just (x <> y); Just x + Nothing = Just x; Nothing + _ = Nothing. < 1409717331 475387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Last is fine, but Data.Tree doesn't give last elements. oh wait... < 1409717342 733536 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can < 1409717356 737080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a tree with undefineds in the middle subtrees. < 1409717378 669020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let tree = Node 0 [Node 0 $ repeat 0, Node 1 []] < 1409717381 631021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1409717400 792864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Last < 1409717401 928330 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a -> Last a < 1409717412 575420 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldMap (Last . Just) tree < 1409717414 105751 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) < 1409717414 261378 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘M894916986005060275817702.show_M8949169860050602758... < 1409717414 261517 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous < 1409717414 261608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Note: there are several potential instances: < 1409717414 261698 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : instance [safe] GHC.Show.Show < 1409717418 105069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1409717426 127004 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh it's just another non-monoid. hah. < 1409717426 900216 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t tree < 1409717428 399944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Num (Tree a), Num a) => Tree a < 1409717434 53830 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops :P < 1409717437 500452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undef < 1409717437 672911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined. < 1409717457 96755 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what's wrong with Last? < 1409717478 111013 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nothing is wrong with Last, but the thing I gave is utterly wrong. < 1409717487 56150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let tree = Node 0 [Node 0 $ repeat (Node 0 []), Node 1 []] < 1409717489 517299 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1409717494 482074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldMap (Last . Just) tree < 1409717495 989052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldMap (\x -> Last (Just x)) $ Node 0 [Node 1 undefined, Node 2 []] < 1409717497 194469 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Last {getLast = Just 1} < 1409717497 570773 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Last {getLast = Just 2} < 1409717510 714486 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldMap (Last . Just) $ toList tree < 1409717510 870075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldMap (\x -> Last (Just x)) . F.toList $ Node 0 [Node 1 undefined, Node 2 []] < 1409717511 744873 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: ‘toList’ < 1409717511 900073 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant one of these: < 1409717513 17731 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : ‘F.toList’ (imported from Data.Foldable), < 1409717514 994722 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : can't find file: L.hs < 1409717516 996347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : ‘IS.toList’ (imported from Data.IntSet), < 1409717518 783249 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldMap (Last . Just) $ F.toList tree < 1409717518 997460 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : ‘S.toList’ (imported from Data.Set) < 1409717523 256168 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1409717526 950432 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldMap (Last . Just) $ F.toList tree < 1409717533 92470 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1409717533 247719 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: ExitFailure 1 < 1409717541 570641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's an example < 1409717752 963838 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, you need a monoid where _|_ <> Foo = Foo. < 1409717763 695206 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some Foo < 1409717798 400427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1409717809 727288 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you just have to replace the _|_ by something that is infinite as a list. < 1409717913 475064 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely < 1409718680 698560 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is fairly sure that his exchange is incorrect < 1409718696 996995 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, that's based more on testing than understanding, so may take a bit to fix < 1409719473 422205 :^8!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:747d:ad1e:b403:310e QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif < 1409720799 991887 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409720952 318817 :tromp__!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1409722433 923700 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1409722463 910212 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409723765 315851 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :moin < 1409723802 391904 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wth are SQL based polls? < 1409723810 230493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :morn < 1409723813 506345 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The unoptic mechanism is what my exchange is supposed to be? < 1409723828 272027 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the participant have to write INSERT INTO stateements? < 1409723830 155635 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come I see code for unchoice? < 1409723837 787727 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you could only turn around isos < 1409723841 712057 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*participants *statements < 1409723894 684280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall edwardk saying that _not_ using profunctor lenses cost you the ability to undo prisms, so presumably you can do it with them < 1409723948 655355 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDream < 1409723957 290719 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is undoing a prism? Turning it into a getter with the same function used to turn around an iso? Or something else? < 1409723967 965165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: remit < 1409723973 261556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or re < 1409723975 709614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it's called in lens now < 1409723986 921158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except it retains the other side so you can flip back) < 1409724045 315724 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could follow this thing's convention and use un for both: http://lpaste.net/103359 < 1409724051 241277 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc < 1409724077 761908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the point of from, yes. < 1409724107 552922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can turn any optic around. < 1409724113 540426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of Iso, what you get is another Iso. < 1409724167 817069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of Prism (a partial isomorphism), you get effectively a getter; getting does "the other way" of the partial isomorphism, same as turning around an Iso for a constructor. < 1409724183 882016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you actually get an unprism that you can turn back around again to get a full prism; no information is ever lost < 1409724225 174438 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/23uzpg/lens_is_unidiomatic_haskell/ch13df1 < 1409724301 391071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :5th last paragraph < 1409724305 767329 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm not getting _that_ much value for using a system I understand slightly less < 1409724348 688313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :profunctor lenses are way more elegant and simple and if you are doing things in a system where you are not under the constraints lens itself has you should probably use them < 1409724458 569141 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except traversals but I think I can use my lazy list idea for them... I can imagine how to turn a traversal function into something that works in that system... < 1409724485 389270 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming immutable data though... I think my idea would break if traversing twice over the same structure occured in non-identical orders < 1409725874 122300 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My exchange code... looks correct, comparing it to the profunctor lenses paste < 1409726058 188853 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hu < 1409726064 528782 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does cabal install cabal install cabal? < 1409726265 294096 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1409726277 125081 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it used to install into ~/.cabal/bin < 1409726396 565297 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. cabal != cabal-install < 1409726730 761447 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So where does the cabal-install's cabal install cabal-install cabal install cabal-install, cabal? < 1409727176 797085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much cabal would a cabal-install install, if a cabal-install could install cabal? < 1409727529 611926 :evalj!~jeval@4E5C5105.dsl.pool.telekom.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409727716 659892 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't cabal-install distinguish between cabal and Cabal? < 1409727825 659220 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I discovered a confusing case of generics in Racket < 1409728186 555911 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pasterack's being slow... but basically, defining the implementation of a generic also shadows the generic's name, so if you attempt to use the same generic function on a different struct, you end up using the one you're defining, instead of the one you want < 1409728207 157810 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/Sgeo/racket-optics/blob/master/profunctors.rkt#L58 < 1409728220 649041 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That line calls _exchange_'s dimap, not driver's dimap < 1409728283 742748 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot how to permalink to a specific version easily < 1409728319 516920 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net QUIT :Quit: restart < 1409728349 170863 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boom permalink the slow way https://github.com/Sgeo/racket-optics/blob/6eacd94d0fede97d693385e69fecfc20340ca485/profunctors.rkt#L58 < 1409728351 335298 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409728477 796743 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/CrazyM4n/brainfunge yet another paragon of innovations < 1409729159 384384 :evalj!~jeval@4E5C5105.dsl.pool.telekom.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1409729611 477222 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409729840 213019 :MDream!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409730209 724522 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4C7D7.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1409730492 218172 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/9523463# < 1409730496 78448 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That second string gets printed < 1409730610 202178 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1409730685 248893 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to get me a VPS one of these days. < 1409731421 932882 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand when UnChoice and UnStrong would be used... nothing's calling unleft unright unfirst unsecond. un-ing a lens or prism shoudldn't cause those functions to magically be called when they weren't before < 1409732906 368136 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Where is the "brain" part? < 1409732943 487337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they are used in instances for un. < 1409732955 4974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the haskell code you pasted. it looks incomplete. < 1409732964 649497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably someone did not fully explore the theory < 1409732995 506745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I also like how ^ is both "set direction up" and exponentiation. < 1409733071 841009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's a "BrainFunge2" in the wiki, but not 1.) < 1409733902 488183 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1409734295 387293 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mzbnjkcqfjvlrsrk QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1409735187 285902 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1409735303 508623 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409735812 490730 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1409736295 566884 :AxelBob!~Android@2E6BB5B1.catv.pool.telekom.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409736392 322456 :AxelBob!~Android@2E6BB5B1.catv.pool.telekom.hu QUIT :Client Quit < 1409736410 33255 :AxelBob!~Android@2E6BB5B1.catv.pool.telekom.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409736740 383423 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1409736974 411609 :yaowenrui!~yaowenrui@27.155.122.215 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409738033 290117 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curious compilation issue: gcc complaining about undefined references to 'dlopen' and 'dlerror' in one of the included shared libraries, even when linking with -ldl. < 1409738098 531847 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permute the command line arguments < 1409738523 554982 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was tried. (Should've mentioned.) < 1409738543 735118 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not all permutations, it was a 9-line command from a build system. < 1409738551 497662 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with -ldl as last, at least. < 1409739117 608216 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409739335 987860 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1409739406 576338 :mikkelrobin!4df32864@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.243.40.100 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409739492 596427 :mikkelrobin!4df32864@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.243.40.100 PART :#esoteric < 1409740253 960647 :AxelBob!~Android@2E6BB5B1.catv.pool.telekom.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1409740965 390962 :yaowenrui!~yaowenrui@27.155.122.215 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1409741538 530485 :yorick_!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick NICK :yorick < 1409742176 47200 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: BANSHEE CHICKEN (screeeeeeeeeetch!) < 1409742669 608829 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1409743492 46467 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1409745782 105062 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1409748027 150108 :impomatic_!~digital_w@81.174.174.142 PART :#esoteric < 1409748062 153680 :impomatic_!~digital_w@81.174.174.142 QUIT :Quit: impomatic_ < 1409749520 526451 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1409751267 600257 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1409753213 773528 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40388&oldid=40358 5* 0366.249.85.53 5* (+125) 10/* Based on dimensions */ Time-based Language < 1409753321 752963 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I interpreted those as plurals. < 1409754682 596543 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :* A programming language that takes compiler errors as input . < 1409754734 475484 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1409754747 365710 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :A programming language consisting of commands given as integers < 1409754756 322141 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :where only integers are legal whose collatz sequence reaches 1 < 1409754813 551413 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or A programming language where the program is to be treated as a single integer whose collatz sequence has to reach 1 < 1409754818 475301 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1409754846 691060 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page is longer than I remembered. < 1409755002 961743 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should get off my ass and bother getting things so I can SSH over IPv4 innto my desktop. < 1409755612 976204 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, a while back I tried to write a language that was TC if and only if the collatz conjecture was false < 1409755795 79660 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a trivial way to do that < 1409755876 616772 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1409756093 498294 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be more interesting to create a language that is TC iff the collatz conjecture is true < 1409756096 451680 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1409756138 41121 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1409756197 789152 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's easy; do a collatz sequence from i before the i'th instruction < 1409756603 995866 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you only need some finite number of instructions for a UTM it could be TC regardless, couldn't it < 1409756645 590808 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A less trivial language: given a mapping f: Z^+ -> instruction, the program n runs the instructions f n, f (collatz n), ... < 1409756656 217006 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's what i was thinking < 1409756662 74706 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it sounds like a pain < 1409756709 239887 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or the mapping can be part of the program, if it has finite support) < 1409756756 740502 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but if all infinite collatz chains are aperiodic, finite mappings are not TC) < 1409756869 415050 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com NICK :`^_^v < 1409757790 174185 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language that is only turing complete if it is not turing complete < 1409757823 615050 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough paradoxical logic to know if that's even remotely possible < 1409757843 610125 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably even means that that language can't actually exist < 1409757918 27271 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :No problem. The wiki is full of languages that don't actually exist < 1409759264 398243 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1409759428 563801 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, I think it means that the language is not turing complete < 1409760076 600534 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Iota14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40389&oldid=8009 5* 03Imaginer1 5* (+182) 10 < 1409760294 333764 :lifthras1ir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409760448 22213 :monotone_!~monotone@room208.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1409760517 400287 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409760518 94481 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409760518 94639 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409760531 570534 :scounder!~scounder@2a01:7a0:10:151:236:17:48:1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409760531 570685 :skarn!skarn@unaffiliated/skarn QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409760531 570911 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409760579 501866 :scounder!~scounder@2a01:7a0:10:151:236:17:48:1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409760683 561470 :skarn!skarn@binary.firrre.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1409760693 585964 :skarn!skarn@binary.firrre.com NICK :Guest10538 < 1409760698 722138 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e JOIN :#esoteric < 1409760852 842560 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lhysxgnpvgursvrq JOIN :#esoteric < 1409760870 923678 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1409760877 31477 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1409761092 609429 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1409761174 494578 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1409761618 171800 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net NICK :CaretVeePomm < 1409761667 106234 :CaretVeePomm!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net NICK :^v < 1409763090 931962 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :woring with two keybords of duffrnte size is e fraking heall < 1409763219 654642 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isnte there STndRD FAR SPCNG BOTWOON JOPBORDS/ < 1409763258 394047 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try resizing your hands. < 1409763269 373476 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying < 1409763269 930999 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :between what?! < 1409763277 132426 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1409763287 311407 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*between keyboard keys < 1409763313 727861 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :My keyboard at work has different spacings < 1409763332 430986 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you turn 'E' into 'O', hmm. Must be Dvorak? < 1409763332 586453 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes at least 5 minutes to get accustomed to my private keyboard's spacing < 1409763338 672649 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Dvorak. < 1409763487 734440 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :different spacing really messes up blind and fast typing < 1409763562 304876 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5g0opjSYf1r94e9jo1_500.gif) < 1409763588 633911 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's interestingly creepy < 1409764353 598157 :masoudd!~masoudd@95.82.1.181 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409765465 118492 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1409765492 959660 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1409765536 35384 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that from Ghost in the Shell? < 1409765610 662622 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1409765614 614125 :lollo64it!~lorenzo@adsl-ull-216-52.42-151.net24.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1409765793 976746 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1409766536 360772 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :anti-selfie bill < 1409766538 162151 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth is this < 1409766690 810891 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :USA? < 1409766732 140847 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/09/03/14/anti-selfie-bill-still-limbo < 1409766755 344526 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phillipines, actually. < 1409766804 560221 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cebudailynews.inquirer.net/40900/bill-vs-techy-intruders-mistaken-as-anti-selfie-bill < 1409767051 359033 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/09/03/14/anti-selfie-bill-still-limbo calls it the anti-selfie bill and cites the offenses, which seem to be targeted at paparazzis really. < 1409767069 430432 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :how one can do that in the same article is beyond me. < 1409767115 313658 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :politics: the same shit, just different toilets. ;) < 1409767778 231484 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's odd that out of all the scenes, the typing is the one that I quote most often < 1409767960 304487 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's that or "i can't go swimming, i would sink" < 1409768284 331359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409768925 494908 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1409769063 971954 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: Sorry I cannot answer your question; I was sleeping. Now I can try to answer it. < 1409769124 545462 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No a participant will not necessarily have to write INSERT INTO statements, but rather all data nevertheless is in the SQLite formats so all statistics and so on are accessed using SQL. < 1409769253 333335 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL is too oldschool < 1409769260 996645 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hipsters like me use acid-state < 1409769386 186669 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means what? < 1409769898 684206 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :< J_Arcane> http://cebudailynews.inquirer.net/40900/bill-vs-techy-intruders-mistaken-as-anti-selfie-bill – I am amused at the quote at the bottom because of the typical code-switching. < 1409769898 978863 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1409770408 135874 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://acid-state.seize.it/ < 1409770678 784528 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some hip database haskellish thingy < 1409770729 413680 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've a book in my bookmarks about making a Scheme in Haskell, but I'm not sure if or when I'll get round to that. < 1409770807 851326 :tromp__!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409770825 598747 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: Sorry, I can't resist: How did you fit an entire book into a bookmark? < 1409770839 642193 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the magic of science. < 1409770904 153762 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you see, a book about implementing scheme is a very small book. < 1409770906 491610 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or just very narrow type: http://smbc.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/bookmark-double-pack ) < 1409770962 13119 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1409770989 175609 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :More seriously, though, it's a Wikibook: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Write_Yourself_a_Scheme_in_48_Hours < 1409771103 603286 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably also use http://longnow.org/membership/10k as a bookmark, but be careful not to scratch it. < 1409771142 21871 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1409771319 536883 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1409772331 81913 :impomatic_!~chatzilla@81.174.174.142 NICK :impomatic < 1409772669 158411 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well if you are using Haskell, then I suppose using Acid-State is going to work. < 1409772838 548137 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409772949 575050 :impomatic!~chatzilla@81.174.174.142 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1409773119 500093 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I use SQL < 1409773278 596040 :wagner!4d0b6c66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.108.102 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409774208 435693 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1409774242 962320 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1409774493 546256 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1409774719 503807 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409774857 816981 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1409774858 12872 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Client Quit < 1409774869 493917 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1409775095 559443 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1409775389 716687 :wagner!4d0b6c66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.11.108.102 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1409775633 994392 :MoALTz!~no@user-31-174-132-216.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1409776831 766634 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40390&oldid=40359 5* 0387.79.59.163 5* (-1) 10 < 1409777242 610747 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4C7D7.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1409778187 471980 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1409778226 965948 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1409778478 789382 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1409778588 857837 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1409778630 513723 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1409778753 774144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1409779150 773284 :miko__!~miko@xdsl-87-79-59-163.netcologne.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1409779203 245114 :miko__!~miko@xdsl-87-79-59-163.netcologne.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. I remember there was a "hyper turing complete" esolang. < 1409779215 991172 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409779224 738976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :miko__: "uncomputable"'s the normal term < 1409779226 883140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are several of those < 1409779300 887862 :miko__!~miko@xdsl-87-79-59-163.netcologne.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a brain fuck derivate that solved the halting problem. There was a operator (or operator pair) that enclosured a brainfuck programm. If it halted it wrote a 1 to the tape or 0 if not. < 1409779327 707444 :miko__!~miko@xdsl-87-79-59-163.netcologne.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the details, but something like that. Does anybody no the name? < 1409779351 636797 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the wiki has a category for languages that are impossible to implement. i'd look for something named something-fuck in that category. < 1409779358 415747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainhype ? < 1409779383 664108 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, almost got it, but not quite < 1409779416 873540 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :'super turing complete' seems dumb. wouldn't it more properly have post degree 0' or something like that < 1409779430 971278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like onoz better < 1409779464 264165 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 0'' i guess < 1409779476 161674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, onoz looks like fun < 1409779483 402758 :miko__!~miko@xdsl-87-79-59-163.netcologne.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it was brainhype. < 1409779484 757519 :miko__!~miko@xdsl-87-79-59-163.netcologne.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1409779548 900936 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is onoz recursive? < 1409779579 941533 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if you run into a loop while in a loop is it just a brainfuck loop or an onoz loop. < 1409779582 928473 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1409779611 532078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, from the spec < 1409779619 150867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm not sure if it matters for the behaviour < 1409779628 483707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe oerjan would know, but he isn't here < 1409779655 63318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask oerjan in onoz, do nested [] have BF or onoz semantics? and does it matter for the purpose behind the language? < 1409779655 256387 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1409779725 750403 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i mean, the program [+[>+]] behaves differently, doesn't it? +[>+] as a brainfuck program doesn't halt but as an onoz program it does. < 1409779834 763246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: obviously the semantics are different < 1409779843 756106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the language may fulfil its purpose either way < 1409779931 815829 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the purpose, exactly? < 1409779935 20096 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you're probably right but < 1409779954 55264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: a language which is a) computable; b) cannot be proven to not halt < 1409779988 366648 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ah, hm. < 1409780571 610558 :miko__!~miko@xdsl-87-79-59-163.netcologne.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds > 1409781313 240439 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781317 361944 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781317 877166 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781353 349574 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781357 470806 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781357 985976 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781393 397250 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781397 519781 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781398 34849 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781438 451812 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781442 572713 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781443 88425 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781483 513025 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781487 632979 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781488 147592 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781528 571969 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781532 693939 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781533 209018 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781568 623818 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781572 745920 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781573 260625 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781608 674743 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781612 795402 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781613 310267 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781648 722958 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781652 847546 JOIN :#esoteric > 1409781653 363043 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409781659 710412 :glogbot!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1409781712 51834 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1409781782 492838 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1409781820 580658 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409782555 293120 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another kind of halting oracles, for sequent calculus based systems, can be an axiom schema |- ORACLE x for all nontheorems |- x < 1409782593 162562 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you try to add other things it will likely cause paradoxes and/or inconsistencies, though) < 1409782812 563053 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409783342 903134 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This reminds me that I read a thing on SciAm today about using closed-time-loops in computing. < 1409783362 526354 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, OK and how is that working? < 1409783405 188605 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1409783417 767707 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theoretically (and possibly confirmed in simulation), due to the nature of a CTC, you could create a quantum computer that could send its own processes backward in time and simply keep retrying them for free until the iteration reached the required calculation. < 1409783435 402526 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine a zero-runtime for loop. < 1409783500 57243 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/time-travel-simulation-resolves-grandfather-paradox/ < 1409784151 231295 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: I've been to a talk on that. It turns out that (depending on the model of CTCs you use) you usually can't get anything useful out of it < 1409784172 13214 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's quantum, you can't just read the value stored in the CTC without disturbing it < 1409784193 229062 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to get a stable "compute + read" loop, which it turns out is almost always equivalent to just not having a CTC to begin with < 1409784249 368802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409784331 583569 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409784354 611446 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, could someone lend me a hand making a language that I wrote turing complete? < 1409784372 580374 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says that "Hawking and many other physicists find CTCs abhorrent, because any macroscopic object traveling through one would inevitably create paradoxes where cause and effect break down" but I think cause and effect aren't necessary and rather something more related to a constraint system. < 1409784394 185075 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cause and effect is then emergent instead of fundamental. < 1409784402 963702 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's just a guess, of course.) < 1409784466 920436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409784475 139640 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n_: Making it turing-complete? Is it on esolangs? < 1409784493 238152 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, some mathematical formulas have multiple solutions (or none at all), isn't it? < 1409784498 841096 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1409784518 695223 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1409784529 732100 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on github, i've never edited a wiki or anything < 1409784533 460105 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure of the standards < 1409784534 479508 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think CTCs are that abhorrent, after all, quantum physics is a situation where we see multiple possible solutions to a system and the universe picks one at random < 1409784548 208021 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n_: Is there a plain-language description of it? < 1409784565 750796 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea < 1409784571 364009 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on, let me get the link < 1409784579 729490 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/CrazyM4n/brainfunge/blob/master/README.txt < 1409784592 174734 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stack based, woohoo for originality < 1409784621 200925 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does ! do on an empty stack? < 1409784639 130985 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, just looking at it, I'm 99% sure it's TC < 1409784639 695254 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is pick one at random, and even calculation of the probabilities of such thing, but at least I think it must fundamentally be made of mathematics. But then you have to consider gravity too, which is also considered difficult to solve perfectly. < 1409784653 648082 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can solve the wire-crossing problem with 0! or something similar < 1409784657 665795 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, 0` < 1409784675 731471 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the wires can cross already < 1409784681 273211 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the spaces < 1409784687 261742 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, hmm < 1409784699 991182 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have a way to reach down the stack < 1409784715 48537 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that probably makes it fail to be TC, since you can only address two stack bits at a time < 1409784720 164980 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking of adding a second stack/turn it into a tape, kind of like BF < 1409784739 115160 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you added stack rotation that should be enough < 1409784739 262046 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use [ and ] to navigate the tape < 1409784747 460229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n_: It defines the ^ symbol twice < 1409784754 206323 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, meant to remove that < 1409784760 569781 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ goes up, not exponentiation < 1409784776 256806 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, pop two values x and y, and put y on the stack x cells deep < 1409784785 957634 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that that's enough to get TC < 1409784790 683762 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, is that the stack is infinite < 1409784796 88511 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1409784799 275564 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might work < 1409784806 79698 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stack is not infinite < 1409784809 413233 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is of unbounded size < 1409784820 900574 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 maybe knows the requirements for TC in a stack-based language better than I < 1409784832 819146 :MDream!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409784851 437369 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"zeroStack :: Stack; zeroStack = repeat 0" the stack starts as an infinitely sized array of 0 < 1409784852 598697 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait, nevermind, it definitely is enough < 1409784875 846998 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can use even locations to represent "forward" cells on the TM tape, an odd locations for "backward" cells < 1409784884 580468 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no wait, that fails, hmm < 1409784895 525839 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking to add an operator < 1409784896 989949 :MDream!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1409784919 139750 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that pops the top of the stack, and accesses a value at that index, and brings it to the top < 1409784928 331530 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's equivalent < 1409784932 373647 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so suc=re < 1409784933 212545 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sure < 1409784943 523271 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yea, that's kinda what you said haha < 1409784959 450029 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine went down, but you can implement either with the other < 1409784967 990542 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :two stacks is enough for TC < 1409784980 339878 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if one is, when implemented as such < 1409784992 35333 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my friend suggested just adding a seperate stack also < 1409784993 9593 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :although actually < 1409784998 401237 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your stack is infinite < 1409785002 678946 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can address any cell < 1409785008 589149 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just an infinite register bank < 1409785013 635353 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just make it a "memory block" instead of a stack? i could have an infinite array of stacks < 1409785014 285826 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is enough < 1409785021 161445 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'll do that < 1409785021 897117 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1409785029 41202 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, rotation is enough < 1409785029 188109 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :access at x index < 1409785044 341809 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, rotation is impossible on an infinite array < 1409785048 996440 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my concern < 1409785053 477426 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :even addressed rotation I mean < 1409785079 299595 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically as long as you can implement "retrive value at index x" and "store value at index x" on your stack, it's equivalent to a von neumann machine < 1409785113 846658 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's gonna have really awkward syntax considering the rest of the syntax is just one character a piece < 1409785114 690960 :Guest10538!skarn@binary.firrre.com QUIT :Changing host < 1409785114 837713 :Guest10538!skarn@unaffiliated/skarn JOIN :#esoteric < 1409785154 552787 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n_: the operation you described above is enough < 1409785155 571447 :Guest10538!skarn@unaffiliated/skarn NICK :skarn < 1409785182 672472 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll work on that and see how weird it feels < 1409785186 873415 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I can pop x, and then move the value at x to the top of the stack, I can do so n times < 1409785204 558129 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see < 1409785208 186642 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409785243 65036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523 maybe knows the requirements for TC in a stack-based language better than I ← another stack < 1409785254 976464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it can be subtle < 1409785257 222948 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stack rotation is enough too, I'm pretty sure < 1409785263 974509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: then the bottom of the stack is another stack < 1409785270 173101 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1409785276 204756 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in CrazyM4n_'s case, there is no bottom < 1409785279 598623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other subtle places to find it are the call stack, and inside the structure of stack elements < 1409785286 302809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well you can't rotate a stack without having a bottom < 1409785295 285203 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can do a partial rotate < 1409785305 452964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's a pick instruction, in which case you can create extra stacks anywhere, or just use it like a tape < 1409785311 887689 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1409785377 850728 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"- | = pop the top of the stack, then move the value from that index to the top - . = pop the top of the stack, then move the next top value to that index" sounds good? < 1409785428 527125 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1409785476 23416 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, last question: would you rather have arithmatic pop the top two numbers and do things with them, or just do things with them without popping them then push the answer to the stack < 1409785484 263237 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*arithmetic < 1409785641 30282 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n_: yes, those two operations together are definitely enough < 1409785646 85407 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on second thought, having arithmetic not pop the stack would make for some really interesting solutions to code golf challenges < 1409785655 835370 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer that arithmetic pops, but yes, that second thing is true < 1409785666 992836 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, you should make a page at esolangs.org :) < 1409785671 133125 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the fibonacci sequence would be "1>+O<" < 1409785695 936021 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yells at confusing cloud < 1409785698 885468 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm terrible with wikis, but i'll try to base it off of some better page < 1409786088 475920 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409786122 966418 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1409786129 758370 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a truth machine is really easy in my language < 1409786140 658085 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing one right now, it kinda looks really cool < 1409786278 484082 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Client Quit < 1409786301 174061 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know how to make sublime text not automatically delete whitespace on an empty line? < 1409786322 709356 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, if you press enter on a line with only whitespace < 1409786966 291701 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could make my language like piet, and make each pixel represent one of the commands < 1409787625 968441 :thomasfuston!~user@x2f28d04.dyn.telefonica.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1409787736 145731 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is the top of the stack index 0 or is the top of the stack index 1 < 1409788500 221567 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409788552 941479 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1409788580 205241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember the Visual Studio issues I had a while ago? < 1409788608 567618 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully no < 1409788617 265414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, you weren't here < 1409788753 556314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I finally solved my original problem by taking some precompiled binaries and modifying the binaries < 1409788753 739933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was easier than getting the program to compile < 1409788753 740085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using objdump -d from Linux and just comparing the binaries and the source < 1409788753 911277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :string literals are pretty useful at figuring out what corresponds to what