< 1412467341 408122 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412467899 305680 :augur!~augur@73.163.157.101 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1412468390 748131 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-izysmxfhtffamwjn JOIN :#esoteric < 1412468491 877986 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1412468573 811188 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat106.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1412470118 670855 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.163.36.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412470522 805321 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.163.36.90 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1412471828 331769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412473025 30774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's snprintf's behaviour on buffer overflow? < 1412473044 270876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, does it use the last remaining character for a NUL. or is it like strncat? < 1412473167 856096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't figure it out from the docs < 1412473367 160215 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1412473564 441323 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the docs are quite clear < 1412473568 525994 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if by docs you mean standard < 1412473574 771902 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always adds a null < 1412473588 55472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using the man page < 1412473591 507139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, anyway < 1412473596 575321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(was checking chasonr's pull request) < 1412473601 130227 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :man c < 1412473729 802234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :new golf, and _all_ the haskellers have 2 less chars than the obvious impl... < 1412473801 441920 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you play Pokemon Card, what is most number of cards you have in your draw pile left over at the end of the game if your opponent has none (if you can remember)? Just now I ended up with forty cards and no side cards, while opponent has no more cards left and still has six side cards. < 1412473813 691969 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I haven't done more than forty, though. < 1412473828 288319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are there any trainer cards that let you put cards back into your draw pile? < 1412473843 109301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better, Pokémon Powers < 1412473847 549257 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; MAINTENANCE and GAMBLER and RECYCLE and MR.FUJI are a few. < 1412473848 578356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just attack effects < 1412473855 148996 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any powers or attacks that do, though. < 1412473879 43625 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I didn't use any such cards this time, as it turns out. < 1412473908 654963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's probably going to be a way to end up with 57 in the draw pile, 2 in play (your active Pokémon and one Energy), and one in hand (the Prize Card you drew as you won the game) < 1412473939 754928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait just one less char < 1412473949 87704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, if you win by decking, you don't need the Energy, although then you'd have a Prize Card (none in hand, though) < 1412473955 580812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 57 because I miscounted first time < 1412473968 56077 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1412473986 968806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, going to get antilunch < 1412473989 429474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be back later < 1412473989 791557 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I don't know if anyone has ever managed that < 1412473995 325783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: antilunchtime < 1412474018 947221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting ['A'..'Z'] is longer than "POCKET", so it isn't obviously better to cheat. < 1412474026 450654 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it was my opponent's own fault for running out of cards) < 1412474115 469450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a language like sed the cheat is obviously better, though. < 1412474173 141947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically you're supposed to remove the letters POCKET from each line, but there are no other upper-case chars) < 1412474283 222383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the obvious sed cheat is precisely the length everyone has on that < 1412474346 239391 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the programs only get tested against the listed sample inpust? < 1412474351 300756 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1412474356 600052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can cheat < 1412474374 83097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ideally you should mark your answer if you do < 1412474434 782991 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's remarkable how many haskell options get thrown out immediately because of the length of import statements. < 1412474445 978566 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1412474459 838155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot is a somewhat more interesting golf environment for that reason. < 1412474526 811025 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they are using ghc 7.4, which means you don't even have the (->) monad by default. < 1412474539 952559 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, 7.4 < 1412474551 84837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just 2 years ago or so? < 1412474635 231358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not quite sure if 7.10 will include applicative syntax in the prelude, or just the class names < 1412474641 863023 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i could check < 1412474654 782669 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean ApplicativeDo? < 1412474663 949919 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it does, then 7.10 should be a _lot_ more golfable < 1412474676 15623 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, i mean simply that <*> <$> operators < 1412474678 718588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1412474680 256035 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1412474692 412348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows? I've washed my hands of caring about Haskell. < 1412474701 647773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are messing it up. It'll be getting steadily worse forever. < 1412474710 13027 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the jerks < 1412474717 629951 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1412474725 465609 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um these are supposed to be improvements. < 1412474751 934442 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you sound like trolling. < 1412474781 278602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm exaggerating. < 1412474837 867618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've told you a million times not to do that. < 1412474909 837846 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"exec is denied" means you can't use the system call? < 1412474916 475654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume < 1412474950 590546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :people still manage in bash < 1412475025 157110 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although maybe that's excluded, because that length everyone has is the same as for tr -d A-Z < 1412475026 682425 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, 38 characters for POCKET is easy enough. I wonder if everyone's solution cheats. < 1412475057 762378 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Exec is denied" means there is a limit to number of executing external programs; it doesn't apply for shell scripts though < 1412475073 24334 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1412475082 804750 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And usually the limit is just enough to get the interpreter to start, although sometimes there is a bit more) < 1412475105 412917 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The source-codes are available so that you can see how it is working. < 1412475122 236806 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: this one isn't closed yet < 1412475140 665951 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean the source-codes for the service < 1412475145 760914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1412475160 725334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to submit a program for testing without submitting it for use? < 1412475166 177431 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: ANDROÏDOÏD CHICKEN < 1412475181 72054 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There is a testing form < 1412475252 971293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, I can make my solution non-cheating easily enough. < 1412475260 874685 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1412475660 492132 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at source-codes, it look like you can use the "broken keyboard" scoring by making the problem name ending with " broken keyboard". < 1412475847 820312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's still cheating. < 1412475854 647533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1412476626 402437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412476920 260356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Haskell have an equivalent to OCaml's (|>) by default? < 1412476922 184811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (|>) < 1412476923 395860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snoc s s a a => s -> a -> s < 1412476930 383739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1412476933 706846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's a different |> < 1412476935 525914 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is (|>) = flip ($)? < 1412476939 63785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes < 1412476941 986202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lens calls it (&) < 1412476949 774895 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it got into base for the next version of GHC. < 1412476958 630215 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it did? < 1412476960 49996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a disaster. < 1412476967 662184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it pretty useful for writing things in an order I can actually read < 1412476977 808981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i think shachaf is just being exaggerating again < 1412476984 271590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find I have to read Haskell right to left < 1412476992 644336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they could have had a better naming scheme < 1412476999 351883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I read in the order a language would evaluate, if it were strict < 1412477001 762155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be more inclined to accept (&) if there was a reversed composition operator. < 1412477020 381130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um >>> hth < 1412477038 897308 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdnh hth < 1412477050 467830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :People write (x & h & g & f) even though they wouldn't write (f $ g $ h $ x) < 1412477065 711075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anything & would be a good name for reversed composition. < 1412477081 269739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is (f . g . h) more idiomatic for that? < 1412477091 723187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, (f . g . h) x < 1412477091 928995 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1412477102 441436 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that. Or f . g . h $ x < 1412477108 39697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in OCaml, the equivalent of f $ g $ h $ x is definitely more idiomatic < 1412477108 936370 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If nothing else then because it can be eta-reduced. < 1412477151 200582 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm only moderately exaggerating. < 1412477182 656443 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got so annoyed about (&) that I left almost all the Haskell channels I was in. < 1412477197 233294 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it was only a proximate cause) < 1412477554 626889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were planning to leave anyway, but (&) was what helped you make up your mind? < 1412477562 977230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :offtopic conversation's like that for me in some channels < 1412477605 485508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, come on, you started this one. < 1412477721 742868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm not complaining about this one < 1412477730 187766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm not even sure it's offtopic < 1412477732 732753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just observing < 1412477786 426332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric hasn't been obnoxiously offtopic for a while < 1412477791 227773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even talks about esolangs sometimes < 1412477870 118244 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Rice's theorem about the connectedness of some topological space? If so, which one? < 1412477985 211208 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1412478114 258481 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible in Linux to use escape codes to access the number of columns of the screen? < 1412478180 303594 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1412478213 122551 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rice's theorem can never be off topic here hth < 1412478221 360177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, no clue) < 1412478225 4916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, pizza) < 1412478253 40035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the method you're "meant" to use is an ioctl; however, I think it might be possible to move the cursor to the bottom-right, then ask for the cursor position < 1412478254 696655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and find out that way < 1412478301 759053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nothing else, you could move the cursor to the top left, ask for the position; move one column to the right, ask again; repeat until the cursor doesn't move any more < 1412478326 727034 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what happens when you have a scrolling region set. < 1412478327 742585 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose then you have to disable line wrapping mode < 1412478338 821282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until just now I completely forgot about scrolling regions. < 1412478383 265203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well if the cursor position goes back to 1, it probably wrapped < 1412478388 738654 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says the codes CSI 5i and CSI 4i are used to turn on and off the printer. How commonly is this implemented? < 1412478399 570079 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, I could do that too < 1412478403 76321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, though, terminals are quite inconsistent: http://nethack4.org/blog/portable-terminal-codes.html < 1412478411 56128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt the printer, I think most terminals ignore it, some log to a file < 1412480009 714852 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:16:38] But there's at least one documented case of an intentional trap. < 1412480009 894517 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[05:16:40] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sgeo/null-edit-detector < 1412480012 394347 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm documented! < 1412480098 971835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why do you have a trap for null edits? just because you can, or is there a better reason? < 1412480105 591865 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I can < 1412480118 843318 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1412480134 23098 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made it over 8 years ago < 1412480390 435706 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23mediawiki/20140526.txt < 1412480401 787070 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am very curious how the unintentional stuff came into existence < 1412480531 360815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, #mediawiki dislike Wikia too, interesting < 1412481208 950184 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If local echo is on will it print the local echo too if CSI 5i is activated? < 1412481447 181066 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1412481521 347240 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that entry text != result text kind of creeps me out < 1412481881 950453 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1412482656 521729 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1412482898 991007 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-izysmxfhtffamwjn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1412483780 746057 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :be afraid < 1412483921 20316 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.89.172 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1412485170 628253 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zdbkxwouqyvndeax JOIN :#esoteric < 1412486808 272600 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Prelude exports the scan* functions ... useful, but somehow I wasn't aware of that. < 1412486817 706218 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Haskell) < 1412486863 170944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote lens < 1412486863 771009 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :895) Taneb: STOP TRYING TO GET LENS INTO EVERYTHING Bike: You should use lens! NEVER shachaf: i'm getting mixed messages here \ 984) Bike: I think you're ready to learn about lens. oh god fiora help somebody help anybody \ 1186) in that thread Taneb admits to his sins < 1412486877 520263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1186 < 1412486878 157172 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1186) in that thread Taneb admits to his sins. i know this because that comment showed up in my friends list oerjan, today I pushed 217 lines of documentation into lens [...] Say 10 Hail Marys and make 3 more lens commits and your sins shall be forgiven. < 1412486902 746070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is being scared of lens a #esoteric meme? < 1412486905 587631 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am i in two different quotes about some library i've never used < 1412486907 400802 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 217 < 1412486907 840006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just Bike? < 1412486908 18131 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :217) HELLWORLD! It's like HELLO WORLD, except not *quite*. There is more agony. < 1412486923 673265 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because whenever people talk about it they sound like spivak and write about as clearly < 1412486930 749812 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because lens is not idiomatic Haskell, it's its own language < 1412486935 697241 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Weren't you saying Spivak was supposed to be clear the other day? < 1412486940 947565 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a math way < 1412486943 533724 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not good at math < 1412486961 700267 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I,I http://math.mit.edu/~dspivak/teaching/sp13/ < 1412486963 83352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't spivak just a few pronouns? < 1412486963 786972 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's just adiffeomorphism on the chu space of reverse topological dynamics < 1412486972 468377 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he also wrote some math textbooks < 1412486977 872328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1412486981 532242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spivak the person, not the language < 1412486983 55687 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm good at math, but lens scares me. < 1412486994 984345 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually the same person behind the language and the math < 1412487006 807691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lens is a large library based on relatively few important ideas < 1412487051 888905 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of it is boilerplate in a sense. < 1412487067 706190 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://31.media.tumblr.com/92d0f2626cc975a59a8c7457f79a3ce9/tumblr_nbnhwdTI7c1r7tprao1_1280.jpg < 1412487093 930784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also very bad at abstractions for a few reasons -- the insides are all over the exposed interface. < 1412487104 378531 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Right, lens as a dependency is way too heavy-weight for my taste. I understand how it got there (edward takes implementing lenses for common libraries upon himself rather than coercing maintainers into providing lenses for their stuff), but it still seems wrong.) < 1412487154 633404 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think that the basic lens type has been abstracted beyond recognition. < 1412487179 723845 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lens is a trade-off between a lot of different forces < 1412487203 626053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of the complexity is my fault. :-( But it was worse beforehand, really. < 1412487237 837480 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the sheer number of infix operators is intimidating. < 1412487275 213459 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :concepts, too. Ok, so there are lenses and prisms ... wth is a bazaar? < 1412487295 872546 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Bazaar is a traversal applied to a structure. < 1412487320 727940 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but I just wanted to access record fields elegantly... < 1412487321 631136 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1412487322 813632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traversals are the central concept of lens. Or they were before profunctors got involved. < 1412487329 926529 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to know about Bazaar to use lens. < 1412487337 875981 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.66.143 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412487349 942681 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, that's my fault, trying to understand the library in details rather than following tutorials.) < 1412487364 194375 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, that should explain tings nicesly < 1412487364 620830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, understand Bazaar is good. < 1412487383 183176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ing < 1412487383 362123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: right < 1412487437 947002 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I still have not used lens; I'm warily eyeing it from a distance (except maybe once trying to decipher some golfing on #haskell) < 1412487474 643724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what Traversal is? It's pretty straightforward. < 1412487498 937324 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in so many words. < 1412487544 568625 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least my vague memory resembled "A Traversal a b c d is a generalization of traverse from Traversable." (which doesn't explain so much, yet) < 1412487557 825759 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1412487569 188173 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm going to talk about lens I probably shouldn't drown out this channel... < 1412487577 483789 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess the generalisation has a similar motivation as giving lenses four parameters instead of two. < 1412487623 699485 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four parameters is pretty natural. < 1412487637 105564 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can talk about it in #haskell-overflow if you're interested. < 1412487643 671405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike can come too! < 1412487663 589746 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :busy watching people silently play video games in the dark < 1412487668 837092 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is, after banging your head against a wall a few times ;-) < 1412487849 260771 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION s t a b s shachaf from behind. < 1412487866 677719 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess you could've been in #-overflow all along. < 1412487927 86923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"s t a b" is my fault too. It was a b c d before that. < 1412487998 426269 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm usually not there. < 1412488011 635183 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too many lenses ;-) < 1412488020 186659 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( shards ) < 1412488036 815742 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and please don't tell me that the lens library has shards. < 1412488060 181078 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. It does have bokehs. < 1412488073 933891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can't pluralize that. < 1412488081 726009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess you can. < 1412488944 291309 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you just love hearing yourself type?! *ducks* < 1412488997 151699 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I'm trying to gather my thoughts for an introduction that I'm going to write someday. < 1412489006 717384 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you might know all this too well to be a target audience for it, though. < 1412489430 390867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm bitcoin looks crashy < 1412489502 418000 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever, like, really looked at your bitcoins < 1412489680 437532 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :all zero of them. < 1412489697 361896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just like looking at the graph occasionally. < 1412490641 443345 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only like it if these bitcoin fanboys start to cry < 1412490674 879276 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even 2600 uses bitcoins now. < 1412490967 593358 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the music for staffroll in Pokemon Card GB2? < 1412491085 695820 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's too tall < 1412493099 996700 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.65.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412493183 728106 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.66.143 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1412493184 69383 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.65.250 NICK :AndoDaan < 1412494217 331606 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1412494600 244215 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you heard of the following quotation before? "Satanism is a Christian's way of becoming enlightened." < 1412495172 801584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1412496127 532249 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that it might have a Zen kind of correctness. (maybe) < 1412496173 289565 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Law = X/0 < 1412496594 447524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if i'd trust the satanists on that, _even_ if the christians need enlightenment. < 1412496643 204533 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't, but that isn't what I think of it at all, at least. < 1412497673 46113 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.65.250 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1412497725 261501 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412497858 441286 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, more golf. < 1412498112 959936 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1412498228 973798 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I made a first effort, now waiting for henkma to overtake me. < 1412498251 17706 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1412498313 550912 :MoALTz!~no@user-164-127-43-38.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1412498505 127340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1222 < 1412498505 708551 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1222) we have today opened a smoking zone behind the hemicycle < 1412498556 413720 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i '1222s/we/[...] we/;1222s/$/ [...]/' quotes < 1412498557 943019 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1412498559 729191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1222 < 1412498560 264126 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1222) [...] we have today opened a smoking zone behind the hemicycle [...] < 1412498667 526035 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: what's with this pattern < 1412498745 683693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i misread the beginning < 1412498853 54017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1412498853 654033 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :931) ais523: I'm not sure my grasp of the English language is getting better by visiting this channel.. < 1412498863 132611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1412498863 664875 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :38) Reality isn't a part of physics < 1412498865 103149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1412498865 680021 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :201) mtve, now he's an expert idler. mtve: kitty kitty kitty < 1412498867 604290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1412498868 189861 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :155) How much do mainframes cost these days? I mean, they're obsoleteish, right? My notebook's much more powerful? So surely, they're cheap? < 1412498869 919041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1412498870 486096 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :423) cigaretes and drunking "lame highs for lame people" yeah if it doesn't make you go crazy and shoot at people, it's not worth it. take it from a norwegian. < 1412499843 662782 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any extensions turned on for this golf thing? < 1412501309 698120 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not, extrapolating from BangPatterns, which are not available. < 1412501923 260110 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A file without a final newline is valid, right? < 1412501957 272654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the obvious approach isn't anywhere close to int-e's 85 so a few characters here and there won't save me. < 1412502318 420457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here again i'm stuck at int-e+1 < 1412502605 66655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1412502693 748548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :84 >:D < 1412502732 736644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to wait for the competition to trounch me again < 1412502741 370256 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the clever trick is. < 1412502785 523033 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how is trounch actually spelled < 1412502802 156066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :trounce? < 1412502815 318345 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds plausible < 1412502871 936942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The special case for the first line is annoying. Perhaps there's a way to do without it. < 1412503366 691375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "trounce" is probably the word you're looking for < 1412503374 952816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1412503434 52138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the pattern for that hello hello world puzzle? < 1412503441 517390 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :trinary counting < 1412503454 183413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ternary < 1412503463 921340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it looked like ternary < 1412503466 644509 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looked like a bizarre sort of base 3 until I remembered how 0 works. < 1412503467 927223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not quite < 1412503533 302304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, Perl doesn't have a function for converting numbers to an arbitrary base < 1412503549 657364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm, I have an evil idea < 1412503558 436709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has, but not without a verbose import < 1412503581 881250 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's verbose even after the import. < 1412503600 193673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose < 1412503605 439501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t showIntAtBase < 1412503606 269034 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Show a, Integral a) => a -> (Int -> Char) -> a -> ShowS < 1412503630 966418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe that actually works well for thise use case. < 1412503631 182901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, sadly it has that fixed Char type < 1412503641 754194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it does. What a scow. < 1412503683 726276 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :putStr, putStrLn, unlines, unwords, etc. are so verbose < 1412503714 847056 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had an idea that i thought would shave off 3 more chars, but sadly my output started sprouting extra whitespace < 1412503754 386873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had all sorts of whitespace problems and dealt with them in awful ways. < 1412504011 19042 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412504035 704527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on the leaderboard! < 1412504108 257847 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.83.70 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1412504108 475276 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.161 NICK :AndoDaan < 1412504382 398195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Perl is apparently ten characters better than your Python < 1412504403 374046 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For which problem? < 1412504425 728362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello hello world < 1412504434 984759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, your Haskell < 1412504455 537833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've no intention of trying to compete against other languages < 1412504478 982804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that doesn't really work, indeed < 1412504494 629810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think golfscript would do better than that, though < 1412504550 696584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's leading but only by about half < 1412504554 219819 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412504585 35171 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.161 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1412504585 419163 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.44 NICK :AndoDaan < 1412504589 288990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the same could be said of burlesque *ogles AndoDaan* < 1412504616 789544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the strange thing, though, is that this is pretty close to idiomatic Perl < 1412504617 134474 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, it's the first burlesque code < 1412504627 141015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess there's an amount of incompressible text in the problem < 1412504630 893893 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've written over 10 characters < 1412504649 204807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the compiler warning and the normal trick where you replace one numeric constant with $$ < 1412504676 930954 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how not to use "world" and "world!" in my code. < 1412504698 950770 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a way to copy and modify it, but i don't know how. < 1412504708 458884 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to ask mroman_ < 1412504719 548134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's $$? < 1412504733 132851 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess it's the pid. What's the trick? < 1412504737 770856 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an annoying duplication that i cannot see how to remove without making it longer < 1412504762 197450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: basically ensuring that the PID is the number you happen to want < 1412504769 406477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people used to run lots of junk programs to do that < 1412504784 153684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then shinh implemented a PID setting script in order to reduce the server load < 1412504794 133567 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1412504795 301822 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ugh. < 1412504865 758093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, reducing the duplication of "world" isn't worth it; it costs me three bytes because the deduplication machinery is quite heavy and "world" is only five characters long < 1412504898 672474 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In one case I have it saving nothing. < 1412504903 483389 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm... < 1412504903 667440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you interested in my algorithm, btw, in case it translates to Haskell? or would you prefer no spoilers? < 1412504918 568260 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's only when I use m=[" world"," hello"," world!"] in order to avoid unwordsing. Which is probably not worth it. < 1412504928 142624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i could actually shorten my code by _removing_ the effort to construct "world!" < 1412504975 392177 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I mind spoilers at this point. I'm probably not going to submit a solution. < 1412504985 786560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i mind < 1412505020 951007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this algo almost certainly doesn't translate well to Haskell anyway < 1412505034 381138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could translate well to GolfScript, though < 1412505112 383623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no, it's missing relevant builtins < 1412505163 233184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a special case for 0? < 1412505181 856631 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, perl has that only in some modules < 1412505188 548777 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :does golf.shinh still limit you to 3 input/output pairs when submitting problems? < 1412505264 923638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, I don't < 1412505289 869188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: a common workaround is to give hundreds of input lines and hundreds of matching output lines < 1412505293 106796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then force the program to run in a loop < 1412505300 207577 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e $t="x";for(1..99){$t++;$t=~y/a/x/;print" $t"} # there's some tricks but they're too long < 1412505300 774384 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ y z xx xy xz yx yy yz zx zy zz xxx xxy xxz xyx xyy xyz xzx xzy xzz yxx yxy yxz yyx yyy yyz yzx yzy yzz zxx zxy zxz zyx zyy zyz zzx zzy zzz xxxx xxxy xxxz xxyx xxyy xxyz xxzx xxzy xxzz xyxx xyxy xyxz xyyx xyyy xyyz xyzx xyzy xyzz xzxx xzxy xzxz xzyx xzyy xzyz xzzx xzzy xzzz yxxx yxxy yxxz yxyx yxyy yxyz yxzx yxzy yxzz yyxx yyxy yyxz yyyx yyyy yy < 1412505335 743722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ooh, that's clever; I was considering a solution that worked along those lines < 1412505351 773329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably want to start with $t at w < 1412505363 999372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that algo will beat mine for the actual puzzle, though < 1412505384 476811 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1412505405 932454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does Burlesque typically compare to GolfScript? < 1412505445 322690 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not well versed enough, but I say it can compete. < 1412505448 1263 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e $t="x";for(1..99){$t=~y/a/x/;print$t++,$"} < 1412505448 474552 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x y z xx xy xz yx yy yz zx zy zz xxx xxy xxz xyx xyy xyz xzx xzy xzz yxx yxy yxz yyx yyy yyz yzx yzy yzz zxx zxy zxz zyx zyy zyz zzx zzy zzz xxxx xxxy xxxz xxyx xxyy xxyz xxzx xxzy xxzz xyxx xyxy xyxz xyyx xyyy xyyz xyzx xyzy xyzz xzxx xzxy xzxz xzyx xzyy xzyz xzzx xzzy xzzz yxxx yxxy yxxz yxyx yxyy yxyz yxzx yxzy yxzz yyxx yyxy yyxz yyyx yyyy yyyz < 1412505468 594297 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the average score is maybe a little lower than golfscript's though < 1412505523 191348 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/lranking.rb < 1412505577 310661 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know like lots of different solutions if you wanted to use base conversion in actual perl programs, but they don't work in golf < 1412505591 287456 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm burlesque's average is 4th only to golfscript, flogscript and gs2 < 1412505598 50130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed there wasn't a base conversion in standard library < 1412505602 37305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I came up with something else < 1412505663 246662 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. there's conversion only for some particular bases. you can do 10, 26, and most powers of 2 easily. < 1412505703 351612 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you go to programs somewhat longer than what typically comes up in golf, you can do pretty nice arithmetic in concise perl < 1412505708 981566 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some examples on perlmonks < 1412505737 872923 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I can arithmetic GF(128) values in three lines of perl < 1412505815 943062 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=849259 I do hexadecimal bignum arithmetic in pure perl < 1412505822 893057 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's like lots of modules as well < 1412505835 284552 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=863110 does the GF(128) computation < 1412505922 346226 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's easier if you only want to increment numbers, not add them < 1412506039 5545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :made it shorter /and/ fixed the warning, nice < 1412506111 632673 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, you should always consider straightforward solutions like repeated division/multiplication for conversion and doing the arithmetic with ordinary numbers < 1412506141 878088 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we know since the roman numbers golf that it's always the best to do the arithmetic with builtins and convert both ways < 1412506248 559190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1412507671 991254 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412510336 682454 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Golfscript is usually at an advantage due to shorter built-ins < 1412510363 477956 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for stuff where Golfscript and burlesque solutions are very similar (in how they work) < 1412510369 827052 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Golfscript one will be only 50% in size < 1412510413 267265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1412510424 596648 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. duplicate stdin, reverse, append < 1412510428 991054 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :is probably three bytes in gs < 1412510433 968610 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it's at least 6 in blsq < 1412510447 714565 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means blsq will only receive 5k points < 1412510560 255243 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.83.44 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1412510988 338583 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1412511137 66180 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1412511484 774741 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.94.14 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412512071 218917 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the average of a language with < 100 submissions isn't really saying anything < 1412512169 235479 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :gs2 really decreased the averages of pretty much every language :) < 1412512185 313096 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :blsq was in the 9k range with golfscript, flogscript I think < 1412512199 294953 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfscript is now at 7.8k < 1412512221 538461 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is for example gs2 has a 1 byte built-in for certain challenges < 1412512226 452919 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :where other languages need 30B < 1412512228 403330 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means < 1412512233 617225 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :gs2 get's 10k at that challenge < 1412512242 261095 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every other language scores 0.5k < 1412512898 515260 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1412513377 833150 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.94.14 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1412513421 482060 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: TARRAGONIFIED CHICKEN < 1412513454 108965 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.87.216 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412513737 494499 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1412514010 382079 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now really glad I have a backup keyboard < 1412515110 505301 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1412515214 231662 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ocitniyknfgufayf JOIN :#esoteric < 1412515372 284938 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1412515533 27360 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.87.216 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1412515607 117276 :King2218!79363688@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.54.54.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412515718 693837 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, golf.shinh.org allows garbage on stderr... < 1412515725 11294 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasty. < 1412515878 11040 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1412516369 600456 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1412516669 315178 :King2218!79363688@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.54.54.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's all this about? < 1412516705 293221 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1412516816 854198 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.82.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412516881 575232 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome King2218 < 1412516882 223667 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :King2218: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1412516899 392321 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rello, king < 1412516945 617402 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`felcome < 1412516946 146053 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: felcome: not found < 1412517041 868990 :King2218_!79363688@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.54.54.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412517082 674973 :King2218!79363688@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.54.54.136 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1412517220 185741 :King2218_!79363688@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.54.54.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :woops < 1412517220 363804 :King2218_!79363688@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.54.54.136 NICK :King2218 < 1412517481 655816 :King2218!79363688@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.54.54.136 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1412517488 234238 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`/bin/sh < 1412517518 747821 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1412517539 963088 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, that actually worked < 1412517567 710728 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you guys have a playground for this thing? < 1412517896 69930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "playground"? < 1412517949 803770 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our bots are free-range < 1412517990 630322 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-185.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1412517996 507026 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq_uptime < 1412517996 694843 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d 19h 8m 11s < 1412518027 250577 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-185.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1412518027 491464 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1412518842 285771 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.82.31 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1412519395 997953 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1412519414 753798 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`uptime < 1412519415 353339 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ 14:30:02 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 < 1412519416 129794 :MoALTz_!~no@user-164-127-43-38.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1412519422 872226 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1412519433 922821 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i get it < 1412519438 160699 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /proc < 1412519438 707629 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 \ 10 \ 2 \ 281 \ 285 \ 286 \ 287 \ 288 \ 289 \ 290 \ 291 \ 292 \ 3 \ 4 \ 47 \ 49 \ 5 \ 51 \ 6 \ 68 \ 7 \ 76 \ 77 \ 8 \ 9 \ buddyinfo \ bus \ cgroups \ cmdline \ config.gz \ consoles \ cpuinfo \ crypto \ devices \ diskstats \ driver \ execdomains \ exitcode \ filesystems \ fs \ interrupts \ iomem \ ioports \ irq \ kallsyms \ kcore \ kmsg \ kpageco < 1412519442 862916 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not. < 1412519571 244176 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :LordCreepity: Did you see anything in the reply to `uptime ? < 1412519586 518249 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1412519587 575273 :MoALTz!~no@user-164-127-43-38.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1412519610 567411 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1412519616 679572 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what’s up there, since idris-bot saw “14:30:02 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00”. < 1412519648 709860 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, thats what i don't get < 1412519666 822933 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how cna you start up 0 seconds before a command < 1412519668 742091 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can < 1412519695 35813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel might just have a habit of lying to you if you ask for privileged/confidential infomraiotn < 1412519697 115409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*information < 1412519699 332085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hostname < 1412519699 897270 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umlbox < 1412519711 762819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is in the nature of sandboxes < 1412519711 995950 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`uname -a < 1412519712 497426 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux < 1412519721 790479 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, its using user-mode-linux < 1412519726 338226 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it < 1412519747 548104 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never actually gotten that thing to work correctly < 1412519847 195509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`date < 1412519847 845567 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sun Oct 5 14:37:15 UTC 2014 < 1412519862 79333 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, but the uptime isn't really confidental information for a process on Linux. they know that anyway from the monotonous clock which starts from zero on Linux, except maybe there could be a difference if the system's been hibernating. < 1412519868 911439 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1412519880 595136 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my system i can run uptime as a normal user just fine < 1412519903 187961 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1412520039 374020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umlbox is a little weird about what it lets you do, sometimes < 1412520105 407013 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.89.207 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412520142 835235 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it might just be an implementation thing. I believe uptime reads the uptime from an old /proc file that gives the uptime only to seconds precision < 1412520223 914815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/uuid < 1412520225 356314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/uuid < 1412520225 825831 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :c03e16c4-a27c-470d-bd76-2faa903a7ff1 < 1412520227 492957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/uuid < 1412520228 76958 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :930154b8-2b97-47c2-ad5f-2e0e55f9a9d4 < 1412520236 129152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it is different each time, at least < 1412520241 756618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be amusing if it wasn't :-) < 1412520301 884787 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1412520321 369854 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could troll really badly right now with a cat /dev/random < 1412520329 695452 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not < 1412520340 219215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, the bot's meant to be impossible to break < 1412520343 447054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /dev/random < 1412520353 709665 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mena < 1412520355 145342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's an interesting approach < 1412520355 395691 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mean < 1412520362 906080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1412520363 621160 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1412520366 445051 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would mess with the clients < 1412520373 831007 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1412520382 351439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bots are meant to filter out implausible output < 1412520390 62430 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1412520390 362109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, I think it just timed out < 1412520401 81905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a bot who wasn't sanitizing its output recently < 1412520411 30378 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1412520412 988137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which caused a bit of a row, but we brought it under control < 1412520417 149863 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the messed up terminals < 1412520439 895656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst things you can do are terminal control codes, but the only person it actually affected was Melvar (who's using some sort of custom framework for idris-bot) < 1412520441 389535 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`od -tx1 -N16 /dev/urandom < 1412520442 673671 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :od: invalid character ` ' in type string `x1 -N16 /dev/urandom' < 1412520456 339303 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cmd od -tx1 -N16 /dev/urandom < 1412520456 797087 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cmd: not found < 1412520460 230918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you mean `run < 1412520462 415672 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run od -tx1 -N16 /dev/urandom < 1412520463 107821 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000 37 90 97 8f de b8 00 9d cb b4 82 ff 49 9c cc 17 \ 0000020 < 1412520466 493443 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1412520475 519217 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably random, but of course you can't tell < 1412520481 507382 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the point of randomness) < 1412520542 333360 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.89.207 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1412520594 240095 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not sure what you mean by custom framework … it’s straight off hackage. < 1412520626 471651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, in that case, it's a framework that isn't used widely enough for protection against terminal control codes to have been implemented < 1412520673 742911 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, it’s simpleirc with debug logging turned on, and the debug log puts out literal raw messages. < 1412520696 720390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, and the fix would be for the debug log to escape control codes < 1412520701 18871 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it messes up the terminal, but the bot itself is not affected. < 1412521002 906883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps we need another bot to send terminal reset codes, to put the terminal back to normal < 1412521022 254116 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: the bot has to filter CR and LF, because those can affect the bot itself, eg. steal its nickserv password < 1412521044 610082 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1412521051 523552 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION formulates an evil plan < 1412521061 102489 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kid < 1412521121 484545 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`whoami < 1412521122 80115 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000 < 1412521124 43899 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.75.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412521124 532831 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it can steal the password. < 1412521127 806082 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1412521134 703965 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, i was joking < 1412521155 368514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /etc/shadow < 1412521155 817845 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: /etc/shadow: No such file or directory < 1412521163 444537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /etc/passwd < 1412521163 926596 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: /etc/passwd: No such file or directory < 1412521169 228114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's going to break a few things < 1412521176 156505 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah crap < 1412521181 718032 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's up for that? < 1412521188 689795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`su < 1412521189 239837 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :su: Cannot determine your user name. < 1412521206 209419 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat cat < 1412521206 811756 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meow~~ < 1412521210 389412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be hilarious if su was defeated via the means of not giving it any way to figure out a name/number mapping < 1412521218 262445 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1412521218 621971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't accept numbers as arguments < 1412521220 765878 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat < 1412521223 496669 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`kill -9 1 < 1412521224 93533 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill: invalid option -- '9' \ \ Usage: \ kill [options] [...] \ \ Options: \ [...] send signal to every listed \ -, -s, --signal \ specify the to be sent \ -l, --list=[] list all signal names, or convert one to a name \ -L, --table list all sig < 1412521227 773424 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run kill -9 1 < 1412521228 342027 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: line 0: kill: (1) - Operation not permitted < 1412521235 317216 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run kill -9 * < 1412521235 837106 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: line 0: kill: :-(: arguments must be process or job IDs \ bash: line 0: kill: a.out: arguments must be process or job IDs \ bash: line 0: kill: bdsmreclist: arguments must be process or job IDs \ bash: line 0: kill: bin: arguments must be process or job IDs \ bash: line 0: kill: binpipes: arguments must be process or job IDs \ bash: line 0: k < 1412521237 708219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run kill -9 $$ < 1412521238 192130 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killed < 1412521246 896601 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run kill -9 1 2 3 4 5 < 1412521247 409650 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: line 0: kill: (1) - Operation not permitted \ bash: line 0: kill: (2) - Operation not permitted \ bash: line 0: kill: (3) - Operation not permitted \ bash: line 0: kill: (4) - Operation not permitted \ bash: line 0: kill: (5) - Operation not permitted < 1412521251 171605 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1412521259 689013 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ps < 1412521260 200894 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ PID TTY TIME CMD \ 286 ? 00:00:00 init \ 288 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 290 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 291 ? 00:00:00 cat < 1412521263 780779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run kill 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 < 1412521264 357141 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1412521267 276126 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`kill -9 288 < 1412521267 832253 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill: invalid option -- '9' \ \ Usage: \ kill [options] [...] \ \ Options: \ [...] send signal to every listed \ -, -s, --signal \ specify the to be sent \ -l, --list=[] list all signal names, or convert one to a name \ -L, --table list all sig < 1412521272 350762 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run kill -9 288 < 1412521272 820772 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1412521273 715620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1412521276 113766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run kill -0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 < 1412521276 668424 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: line 0: kill: (1) - Operation not permitted \ bash: line 0: kill: (2) - Operation not permitted \ bash: line 0: kill: (3) - Operation not permitted \ bash: line 0: kill: (4) - Operation not permitted \ bash: line 0: kill: (5) - Operation not permitted \ bash: line 0: kill: (6) - Operation not permitted \ bash: line 0: kill: (7) - Operation no < 1412521278 484647 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the command that said "You don't exist. Go away. < 1412521286 739755 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"? < 1412521344 862288 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cc < 1412521345 645232 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/../../../x86_64-linux-gnu/crt1.o: In function `_start': \ (.text+0x20): undefined reference to `main' \ collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status < 1412521352 31184 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1412521357 734373 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can compile nothing? < 1412521372 264833 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/compile/link < 1412521373 29693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can try, but it fails due to the absence of main < 1412521390 604882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ld < 1412521391 91638 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld: no input files < 1412521391 641458 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but this was cc with no args < 1412521397 68341 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes no sense < 1412521398 663787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc with no args is not ld with no args < 1412521402 807733 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1412521404 234894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some default args, like crt1.o < 1412521410 462212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cc --version < 1412521411 104267 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/a.c:1:1: error: expected identifier or ‘(’ before ‘--’ token < 1412521417 343165 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1412521417 717487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1412521423 232499 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a C interpreter < 1412521437 582939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cc int main(void) { puts("test\n"); return 0; } < 1412521438 178862 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/a.c: In function ‘main’: \ /tmp/a.c:1:23: warning: missing terminating " character [enabled by default] \ /tmp/a.c:1:1: error: missing terminating " character \ /tmp/a.c:2:1: warning: missing terminating " character [enabled by default] \ /tmp/a.c:2:1: error: missing terminating " character \ /tmp/a.c:2:1: error: expected expression at < 1412521454 904991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's most likely a buggy C interpreter < 1412521461 411825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c puts("test"); < 1412521462 295115 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1412521471 890458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the working one < 1412521478 198817 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1412521562 615574 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c execl("/bin/ls", "ls", "/bin", (char*)0); < 1412521563 627185 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ findmnt \ fuser \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ kmod \ less \ < 1412521568 744022 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1412521649 83465 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :know of any c interpreters for linux? googled some before but couldn't seem to find one < 1412521660 19101 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know plan 9 has one included with it < 1412521664 521965 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't use that < 1412521672 115866 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The `cc is just an echo "$@" to a temporary file + gcc on it. < 1412521683 323880 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1412521693 76882 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.75.224 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1412521699 771347 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think CINT (the thing ROOT used to run on) had a C mode, though it's more of a C++ interpreter. < 1412521715 437539 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurr < 1412521738 880193 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I think they're moving to Cling. < 1412521742 283514 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://root.cern.ch/drupal/content/cling < 1412522392 461900 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.89.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412523021 544686 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c printf(argv[0]); < 1412523022 559938 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/compiled.299 < 1412523073 566775 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The number is the process ID.) < 1412523133 488579 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.188.67.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412523209 429180 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.89.76 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1412523210 165512 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.188.67.106 NICK :AndoDaan < 1412523220 728924 :LordCreepity!~davis@cpe-74-129-137-239.swo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk < 1412523286 957683 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude NICK :G33kDude < 1412526015 419418 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1412526020 929562 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1412526144 398140 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1412526154 43547 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1412526195 485124 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.67.106 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1412526446 915140 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1412527175 308462 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.74.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412527242 999966 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1412527627 477840 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1412527966 361179 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.74.192 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1412528562 487222 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1412530332 212415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^prefixes < 1412530332 212638 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! < 1412530491 577256 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 'hi' < 1412530492 171032 :j-bot!~j-bot@li339-21.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hi < 1412530506 833885 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say remove the jconn entry, he doesn't come here anymore < 1412530526 835105 :evalj!~jeval@54000DEC.dsl.pool.telekom.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1412530528 961031 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :] 'evalj doesn''t either, I rarely start it' < 1412530529 673686 :evalj!~jeval@54000DEC.dsl.pool.telekom.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: evalj doesn't either, I rarely start it < 1412530551 650159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many J bots do we have? 3? < 1412530587 46932 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's all the same bot, but instances ran by different people. there were like six instances so far, some of them dead for years because their running people disappeared < 1412530622 391194 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, technically, NotJack wrote a J bot that wasn't derived from it, plus buubot had a J plugin that I wrote that was derived from it but isn't the same) < 1412530639 76924 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the notable part about NotJack's bot is that he wrote it in J) < 1412530694 887776 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:bd17:f15b:aeef:dab5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412531348 3966 :Maunz25!~Maunz25@HSI-KBW-078-042-148-172.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1412531487 506102 :maunz26!~test@HSI-KBW-078-042-148-172.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1412531488 246768 :maunz26!~test@HSI-KBW-078-042-148-172.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1412531813 979346 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:bd17:f15b:aeef:dab5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1412531814 209911 :Maunz25!~Maunz25@HSI-KBW-078-042-148-172.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1412531826 986834 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:ed44:d2b6:12e0:64a0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412532053 234805 :maunz26!~test@HSI-KBW-078-042-148-172.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Quit: < 1412532873 696217 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412533148 297793 :G33kDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1412533443 538706 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1412533620 412607 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412533667 44642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1412534238 768046 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1412534316 852697 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: q#Rc! is btw. duplicate bottom ;) < 1412534391 86930 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhelloman_. < 1412534987 139491 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's burlesque related topic < 1412535005 427408 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :is #Q#q#j#J#s#Sif turing complete < 1412535021 603560 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what's the minimal subset of builtins + #Q#j#j#J#s#S to make it turing complete < 1412535093 625200 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#s < 1412535093 916043 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{#s}} < 1412535100 754042 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#s#j < 1412535100 953827 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {#s #j} < 1412535106 229558 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#Q#s#j < 1412535106 432924 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {#Q #s #j} < 1412535114 853673 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#Q#s#j#s#j < 1412535115 51755 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {#Q #s #j #s #j} < 1412535119 953333 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#Q#s#j#s#j#s#j < 1412535120 157273 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {#Q #s #j #s #j #s #j} < 1412535129 791819 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#Q#s#Q#j#s#j#s#j < 1412535130 30712 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {#Q #s #Q #j #s #j #s #j} < 1412535132 881696 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1412535136 465708 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#Q#s#Q#J#s#j#s#j < 1412535136 675400 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! < 1412535141 640437 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#Q#s#Q#J#s < 1412535142 250639 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {#Q #s #Q #J #s} < 1412535149 61193 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#s#Q#J#s < 1412535149 263429 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {#s #Q #J #s} < 1412535154 291429 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq #Q#s#Q#J#s#J < 1412535154 482138 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {#s #Q #J #s #J} < 1412535159 987887 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1412535224 671619 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have "hello hello world" an initial Forth go, and ended up with 150 characters. :) < 1412535563 743810 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is an initial Forth go? < 1412535634 880391 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just writing a thing in Forth with a general "don't waste code" idea in mind, but not doing any editing afterwards. < 1412536475 650012 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, mplayer's playback speed twiggle just resamples instead of properly time-stretching. < 1412536748 879707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there's a filter. < 1412536792 606726 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem to be a terribly high-quality one. < 1412536853 149818 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't mplayered in a long time. my life is becoming orthogonal with my priorities. < 1412536950 47485 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: EIGEN CHICKEN < 1412538021 207940 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: uh, ok < 1412538468 411786 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:ed44:d2b6:12e0:64a0 QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif < 1412538576 582381 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1412538578 425883 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1412538968 779379 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, mroman_, tell me which is the state stack, and which the normal stack. < 1412539005 219492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone else answer, or does it have to be mroman_? < 1412539023 881098 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please. < 1412539096 737401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The state stack is just a secondary stack that you access with those pP PP Pp things, with the distinction that the state stack's the same stack even inside blocks you are m['ing or f['ing or whatever, where the code inside won't normally access the global stack. < 1412539169 544510 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that was my understanding, but when i try and peek and pop, pop goes my interpreter. < 1412539183 632758 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you put anything there to peek/pop? < 1412539244 251295 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 5 6{1 1 1}{pP}m[ would...> < 1412539259 817656 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 5 6{1 1 1}{pP}m[ would...?* < 1412539283 557166 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing on the state stack to pP from, I don't think. < 1412539303 775765 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0Pp "foo bar baz quux"wd{PP+.JPp ?+}m[ < 1412539303 976187 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"foo1" "bar2" "baz3" "quux4"} < 1412539315 339727 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an example of using the state stack to do a manual counter. < 1412539355 495223 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'm sure that particular example would be better with some sort of zip-based thing. < 1412539399 252672 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, the firs PP puts "foo" too here0Pp < 1412539402 349692 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1412539415 530023 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 0Pp puts a 0 on the (initially empty) state stack, yes. < 1412539452 754265 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the PP moves it back from the state stack to the normal stack, the +. increments it, and the JPp puts a copy back on the state stack for the next round. < 1412539482 159884 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not empty < 1412539486 848660 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains stdin < 1412539506 365627 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, like, stdin is on both stacks initially? < 1412539510 453022 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq p\ < 1412539510 657031 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : No output! < 1412539519 51627 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: On anagol it is. < 1412539528 751498 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I didn't know that. At any rate. < 1412539529 499706 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i think i see my misunderstanding < 1412539570 354284 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to mess around a bit, thanks! < 1412539588 861290 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fizzie explained it perfectly otherwise < 1412539678 789810 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the record, "foo bar baz quux"wd1R@{?+}Z] would presumably be better for the particular example I used. < 1412539708 460584 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some implications for laziness though when using the secondary stack < 1412539715 521138 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bslq 0Pp{1 1 1}{PP.+Pp}m[pP < 1412539724 191679 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0Pp{1 1 1}{PP.+Pp}m[pP < 1412539724 369256 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1412539727 141369 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1412539734 135026 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm understanding. < 1412539740 154082 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1R@{JPp}m[10.+ < 1412539740 359278 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10} < 1412539748 132032 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1R@{JPp}m[10.+pP < 1412539748 334458 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! < 1412539752 183955 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1412539777 430518 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing a pP here will make the code never terminate < 1412539820 507307 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1412539871 708265 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because theoretically the last element on the stack would be the last element of 1R@ but 1R@ doesn't have a last element) < 1412539944 526338 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though you may think with 10.+ the state stack will only contain 10 elements as well... < 1412539955 510999 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not the case :) < 1412540039 719043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have some sort of a general policy to make operands that take "block, int" kind of arguments to be usable also in "int, block" order? < 1412540069 859484 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1412540074 465067 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 10{1 2 3 4}.+ < 1412540074 672175 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {1 2 3 4} < 1412540088 329087 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes < 1412540107 296696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed that was the case for .+ and some others, but not e.g. !!. < 1412540120 932626 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1412540139 727996 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1412540140 738359 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "e.g." is wrong, !! is the only thing I ran across, really. < 1412540159 901636 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1412540165 113994 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1{1 2 3 4}!! < 1412540165 315832 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Burlesque: (!!) Invalid arguments! < 1412540168 352607 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 2{1 2 3 4}!! < 1412540168 532189 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Burlesque: (!!) Invalid arguments! < 1412540170 20239 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 2{1 2 3 4}ch < 1412540170 208039 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1412540185 517923 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'll add it to the todo list < 1412540275 78504 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know about ch. But the n! makes it not quite the same as !!. < 1412540280 230350 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1412540302 524278 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for < 1412540312 645323 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1{"yes""no"}ch < 1412540312 824539 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "yes" < 1412540319 494683 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a shorter way to do that < 1412540325 885539 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 'e {1 1}{{'a 'b}{'c 'd}}D! < 1412540326 79522 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Burlesque: (D!) Invalid arguments! < 1412540328 91318 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1"yes no"cw < 1412540328 288644 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Unknown command: (cw)! < 1412540329 980106 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1"yes no"CW < 1412540330 182182 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "yes" < 1412540347 364087 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly because "yes no"wd is shorter than {"yes""no"} < 1412540353 169563 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CW is wdch < 1412540364 338598 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: other way around < 1412540389 268615 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {{'a 'b}{'c 'd}}{1 1}'e D! < 1412540389 461157 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{'a 'b} {'c 'e}} < 1412540399 387289 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 PRIVMSG #esoteric :great! thanks < 1412540446 242912 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the actual policy is if something is < 1412540470 620695 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Block x, Foo b (where Foo is not Block) that it would be nice if it also works for Foo b, Block x as well < 1412540491 604536 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you happen to come across a built-in where a reversed argument order can be added just give me a heads-up < 1412540502 134701 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what doesn't work is Block f, Any a for example < 1412540507 385739 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a could also be a block < 1412540575 643900 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :[+ Str a, Char b < 1412540587 602783 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could also support Char b, Str a < 1412540640 336489 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1412540642 960122 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1412540644 67137 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1412540652 245097 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of built-ins where you could do that < 1412540656 552050 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :CO, co < 1412540669 275169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I was missing was to go from '1 to 1 in one instruction; I couldn't think of anything shorter than [-ri (or some other two-instruction alternatives). Though I don't know how common that is, and two instructions isn't very much. < 1412540697 26150 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :C! as well < 1412540727 678167 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq '1ti < 1412540727 860411 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Burlesque: (td) Invalid arguments! < 1412540732 851055 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq '1ri < 1412540733 45487 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1412540736 707649 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq '2ri < 1412540736 906479 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1412540753 264217 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, yes, I also wanted to go from '0 to 0 and '2 to 2, not just '1 to 1. < 1412540804 941973 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The "ri tests chars for alpha-numericness" was a nice twist.) < 1412540819 308313 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there was one < 1412540822 769707 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't find it < 1412540877 949062 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq '2XXti "also works"vv < 1412540878 130022 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1412540898 521109 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hu? < 1412540902 565602 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq '2XX < 1412540902 758329 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "2" < 1412540906 739355 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1412540920 299568 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah < 1412540924 311285 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know XX does that < 1412540926 240896 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess XX and [- do the same for a char argument. < 1412540946 44779 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1412540961 607129 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ti could actually do Char -> Int < 1412540989 901876 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. gn8. < 1412541059 748253 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, B! could accept Char in addition to String (and then b0, b6 would be short ways to convert digit characters to numbers). < 1412542208 135489 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of to make up a variant of Pokemon type matrix where it mathematically is an actual matrix. < 1412542732 742999 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 QUIT :Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- < 1412542904 446104 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time I start a D&D campaign DM'd by someone called Liam, in the first encounter I get messed up by corvids... < 1412542945 81497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the same Liam every time? < 1412542951 447391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this just a general property of Liams? < 1412543028 225939 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-16-225.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1412543534 312460 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1412544109 506335 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412544406 657959 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can scanf("%*1[ ]") be a proper C code? < 1412544505 142157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, because you didn't give it enough arguments < 1412544515 237854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't think that 1 is legal in that context < 1412544571 997728 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why is that? How should it be? < 1412544573 61330 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the * means there's no argument < 1412544587 21689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: did I confuse scanf with printf? < 1412544601 58478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought * meant it consumed an argument to get a count < 1412544614 485117 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I'm not sure it's legal or standard or anythin < 1412544618 911443 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look it up < 1412544663 57676 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you want to execute it? I think if you never execute it then it's leval < 1412544666 522188 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :legal < 1412544681 383997 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hey, sorry for nitpicking, but we're on that channel) < 1412544710 465671 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it has happened with two different Liams < 1412544739 396088 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes if it is executed how do you expect it to work < 1412544768 419693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you can normally assume that here, there's a decent chance that we're looking for an answer to the question we actually asked, even if it seems insane < 1412544814 381194 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: from looking it up, yes, I think it is valid, and will skip a single space. the star makes sure it doesn't try to assign to anywhere and doesn't expect an argument. < 1412545030 32006 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is something like if(scanf("\e[%d;%dR",&y,&x)!=2) a proper way to read the cursor position (after printf("\e[6n"))? < 1412545034 514243 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1412545038 724608 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not counting locale and wide character and that kind of complications, which I probably don't understand) < 1412545050 820498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1412545064 862474 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, because you may get other input from the terminal before that reply < 1412545079 461561 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Well, perhaps the program could first set the locale to the C locale before doing anything else, if that can help. < 1412545081 420638 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this may partially match that other input, consuming a prefix < 1412545096 590011 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :\e is also not one of the standard escape sequences, though it's quite common. < 1412545097 662344 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the locale is already the C locale unless you specifically set it otherwise < 1412545107 322379 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's trickier in a library of course < 1412545126 337673 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other input from the terminal will come up? < 1412545135 528773 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what a user happens to type, if there's some lag < 1412545154 43098 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I intend to check the cursor position before the user types anything < 1412545170 361116 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: he may have typed something before you first read anything, and it's still in the buffer, < 1412545172 858668 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't prompt for anything at that point in the program < 1412545180 281097 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or before that point, either. < 1412545205 8085 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in a program like nethack, you probably need to parse all kinds of terminal input sequences properly anyway (keystrokes, mouse, etc) < 1412545218 929173 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just use that and treat \e[1;1R as any other keyboard input < 1412545235 318730 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might use a library for that, like libtermkey, or roll your own < 1412545278 34382 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does this only at the beginning of the program, anyways; it never requests a cursor position after that. < 1412545317 435911 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if you type in a terminal that will keep the cursor at the last column when a character is typed there and wrap only after another character is typed, what will be the response for the cursor request? < 1412545339 779064 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: OK I can understand you but this is not Nethack and stuff like that < 1412545394 186326 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: dunno, tias, it might depend on the terminal < 1412545450 568509 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as for the scanf, well, I think it's not the proper way, but it might work well enough as a kludge. you can at least try to read as much from the input nonblockingly as there is before you emit the query to make the kludge less likely to fail. < 1412545452 121667 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I want to detect the wrapping mode of the terminal as well as the number of rows and columns. < 1412545495 430815 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1412545500 334711 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1412545502 125906 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask ais about that maybe < 1412545546 726270 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a remote terminal, so system calls cannot necessarily be used. < 1412545548 937332 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat106.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1412545581 325147 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: terminal size is forwarded well enough on remote terminals, through telnet and ssh and all that < 1412545634 303311 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :telnet and ssh have a protocol for that, and then they tell the kernel about the size for the master side of the pty with an ioctl, so that you can then read the terminal size from the slave side of the pty with another ioctl fine < 1412545647 795860 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like with "real' terminals < 1412545649 842097 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1412545673 177470 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about the only information you can usually trust to be relayed well through ssh and telnet < 1412545683 136329 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really trust the terminal type < 1412545713 521693 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can probably also use the cursor position query to find the size instead, if that's supported < 1412545778 277206 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-16-225.access.telenet.be QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1412545808 96585 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: for the terminal size, you can try to check what ais does in libuncursed < 1412545826 219676 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about wrapping, but it's worth a try to ask him < 1412545826 397426 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program can also be run on Windows (although then you have to use non-ANSI mode if the standard Windows terminal window is used). < 1412545838 939712 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I still also want to know the wrapping modes. < 1412545965 175528 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: libuncursed uses the cursor location query to detect whether the encoding of the terminal is a byte encoding or utf-8 < 1412546042 739281 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1412546113 677555 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.247 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412546215 661628 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I can see that can help, but in my case I don't need any non-ASCII characters anyways. < 1412546362 578530 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1412546447 882445 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure, I'm just saying he might know how to do this < 1412546927 492140 :evalj!~jeval@54000DEC.dsl.pool.telekom.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1412547506 379313 :shikhout!~shikhin@120.59.229.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1412547510 181095 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that PuTTY can use CSI [18t to figure out the terminal size, although this isn't listed in Wikipedia or anything like that and doesn't appear to be a standard command; also it doesn't detect wrapping modes. < 1412547532 382124 :shikhout!~shikhin@120.59.229.6 NICK :Guest75924 < 1412547683 931452 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1412547901 965887 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for this wrapping, PuTTY returns the position where the cursor is displayed. < 1412547941 211387 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have Linux on your computer, can you test to see what it does on Linux? < 1412548352 433877 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1412548394 276385 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1412549096 79119 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1412551192 492567 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1412551514 937693 :tromp__!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1412551653 61383 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1412553107 876666 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric