00:02:11 <madbr> wouldn't it be phởn? :3
00:02:32 <boily> chicken is chicken. it is everything. to deny it is to distance oneself from the true path. without denial, one can't find the Chicken.
00:02:51 <HackEgo> Phở là một món ăn truyền thống của Việt Nam, cũng có thể xem là một trong những món ăn đặc trưng nhất cho ẩm thực Việt Nam.
00:03:11 <Sgeo> Hmm, having a menu bar at the top means tabbed browsers don't have infinitely high tabs
00:03:16 <Sgeo> I think I would hate that
00:04:07 <madbr> HackEgo : 100 points to anyone who can pronounce that :D
00:04:43 <elliott> Sgeo: afaik only chrome does
00:04:45 <boily> I tried to pronounce a few vietnamese words. I abysmally can't.
00:04:45 <shachaf> Sgeo: what!! that's barely an update
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00:04:49 <elliott> and even then I think it doesn't on linux
00:04:57 <elliott> other browsers have stuff closer to the top
00:05:29 <Sgeo> elliott: Firefox does on Windows these days
00:05:38 <Sgeo> They're trying to copy the Chrome chrome it seems
00:05:49 <elliott> does the click target actually reach the very top pixel of the screen?
00:05:59 <elliott> anyway really you have to manoeuvre horizontally to pick a tab anyway...
00:06:20 <boily> madbr: btw, do you happen to be a vietnamese soup connoisseur?
00:06:25 <Sgeo> elliott: seems so (re click target reaching top of screen)
00:06:54 <Sgeo> I wonder how many people on Mac realize closing window doesn't close application
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00:07:16 <Sgeo> I know we've had product people at the company get confused by that, thinking they restarted the browser when they didn't
00:08:15 <madbr> boily : well, I like scarfing it down yes :D
00:08:43 <elliott> Sgeo: it's rather obvious when the app isn't pinned to the dock
00:09:07 <elliott> also, some (even apple) apps do close when you close the window, and it's not always obvious why one would follow one behaviour :/
00:09:25 <ais523> I think the idea is meant to be that it doesn't matter whether the application has any windows open or not
00:09:31 <ais523> the problem being that this is a false statement
00:09:40 <shachaf> oerjan: Did you see the paper I linked to above?
00:09:48 <ais523> Windows 8 Metro has exactly the same issue
00:10:28 <elliott> ais523: OS X explicitly has a concept of "open but with no windows", unlike Windows
00:10:31 <madbr> boily : now you're making me want it x_x
00:10:34 <elliott> it's just weakened it recently
00:10:40 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't recall.
00:10:52 <ais523> elliott: Windows has a state of "open but with no windows" but it's a pain to interact with
00:10:55 <elliott> System Preferences and the App Store and Contacts and Notes close when you close their sole window. Maps and Reminders don't.
00:10:58 <boily> madbr: what are your approximate coördinates? do you live in a soup-friendly city?
00:11:03 <ais523> you can see the process in task manager, but it's hard to do anything to it, other than kill it
00:11:13 <elliott> neither does iBooks, despite it being basically like the App Store except for ebooks
00:11:17 <shachaf> boily: Is that the new question?
00:11:27 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you know about the X -o F(X) notion of derivative?
00:11:33 <elliott> err... iBooks stays open when you close its window, until you focus another app
00:11:46 <madbr> I have multiple choices for pho :D
00:12:15 <boily> shachaf: I just tried to subtly slide it into the conversation :P
00:12:35 <oerjan> shachaf: no, and i don't think my brain wants to know.
00:12:35 <boily> madbr: attends un peu, toi. viens pas me dire que tu restes à Montréal aussi.
00:12:56 <boily> j'ai comme une impression de déjà vu...
00:13:37 <elliott> boily: did you ever work out the answer to the question you were asking the questions for?
00:14:01 <boily> elliott: >_>'... <_<... I... kinda stumbled upon the maths.
00:14:10 <elliott> wasn't there an online thing to calculate it
00:14:12 <shachaf> oerjan: but you're my only hope for tangent spaces
00:14:25 <boily> elliott: there's an online thing for that?
00:14:33 <elliott> what was it you were calculating again?
00:14:39 <madbr> boily : je sais pas si on se connait
00:14:47 <boily> elliott: the center of mass of the chännel.
00:15:25 <boily> madbr: ça se peut. la dernière fois qu'un autre montréalais s'est enfargé dans le channel ça s'est adonné que c'était un ami à mon frère.
00:15:27 <elliott> http://calculator.tutorvista.com/center-of-mass-calculator.html guess this doesn't really help
00:15:32 <oerjan> shachaf: lasciate ogni speranza
00:15:36 <elliott> whatever, just pay a grad student to do it
00:15:49 <boily> I know just the right grad student for the task!
00:15:55 <boily> (paying grads? since when?)
00:16:07 <elliott> I seem to remember we plotted points on a globe with some tool based on our geographic coordinates or something at some point.
00:18:10 <oerjan> boily: montreal is the new hexham
00:18:42 <boily> oerjan: yup, and it's disturbing.
00:20:18 <madbr> boily : hmm, faudrait voir si on a pas un millieu en common d'abord
00:21:51 <shachaf> oerjan: At least X -o F(X) makes sense, right?
00:21:59 <shachaf> It takes an X and puts it into a structure somewhere.
00:22:11 <boily> madbr: quel genre de milieu?
00:22:29 <madbr> moi j'ai genre la demoscene de montreal (et les trucs connexes comme la chiptune), le foulab, la bédé québécoise, euhh...
00:22:53 <boily> ooooh, y'a une scene à mourial? ah bin!
00:23:01 <madbr> une année particulière des gens en génie logiciel à l'université laval
00:23:15 <boily> j'ai fait mon bac en génie informatique à laval.
00:23:58 <boily> oerjan: disturbing I said? more like very disquieting, terrifying, canadianing.
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00:24:36 <oerjan> ok this does it, i'll put the whole log through GT...
00:24:37 <madbr> connais-tu joel bouchard lamontagne?
00:24:41 <GeekDude> I'm trying to implement the mandelbrot set without using any floats. I happen to be very bad at this, apparently
00:25:11 <madbr> bon, probablement pas de connection d'abord
00:25:27 <madbr> GeekDude : trying to make it run on an ARM?
00:25:28 <boily> GeekDude: how can you mandel without floats? isn't it the point of having enough precision to plot precise colours?
00:25:48 <GeekDude> Trying to implement it in piet, actually, with an ascii output
00:26:11 <GeekDude> boily: The point is that fractals are cool
00:26:31 <boily> madbr: je suis dans la scène plus boardgaming, et le fameux Douteux du lundi soir au Broue.
00:27:04 <boily> GeekDude: indeed. I remember having lost quite some time doing a haskell program to output a postscript file with L-systems.
00:27:22 <boily> (also animating slices of strange attractors. that one was quite nice!)
00:27:49 <madbr> ok je vais très occasionellement au douteux :3
00:28:01 <madbr> en fait faudrait que j'y aille plus souvent
00:29:14 <boily> GeekDude: do you know where I could be posting an avi file on the intarwebs and have it play?
00:29:39 <madbr> genre y aller avec mon cousin (qui habite pas loin non plus)
00:30:13 <elliott> avis could contain anything
00:30:43 <boily> GeekDude: if you ever heard a sudden facepalm just about now, it wasn't me. probably even only an auditory illusion.
00:31:16 <GeekDude> That sound was me reading about snapchat's recent
00:31:47 <boily> (meanwhile, 13 minutes remaining while it uploads to dropbox...)
00:34:57 <oerjan> i'm not sure whether i find your original french or google's attempted translation most readable. also it does strange things to the parts in english...
00:38:01 <boily> oerjan: parts in English?
00:39:09 <oerjan> <oerjan> ok this does it, i'll put the whole log through GT...
00:40:06 <boily> ah. aaaaah. heh ^^
00:40:07 <GeekDude> aha! no floats http://i.imgur.com/jKexwd3.png
00:40:54 <GeekDude> The code for it https://db.tt/Z7smLgTF
00:46:20 <boily> oerjan: GT is weird. why is it capitalizing whole random words?
00:46:52 <shachaf> you accidentally set the target language to german hth
00:46:54 <boily> GeekDude: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/video.avi
00:48:13 <GeekDude> IT's not playing. Either it needs to download more or its bork
00:49:55 <boily> it's hideoulsy uncompressed.
00:50:46 <elliott> does it work in, like, mplaye
00:50:54 <boily> it works in mplayer.
00:51:03 <elliott> why did you upload it in this format. just curious.
00:52:29 <boily> I can't remember. the file is from...
00:53:27 <elliott> congrats, it won't even play in mpv
00:53:32 <boily> (and it probably is even older, as it sounds like it's been copied over to my desktop from my university laptop.)
00:54:04 <boily> of a bunch of dejong attractors.
00:54:16 <boily> http://paulbourke.net/fractals/peterdejong/
00:56:02 <elliott> compiling mplayer so I can play some random uncompressed video...
00:56:49 <boily> GeekDude: DLA is one of my favourite methods to generate fractals. 'tis sad it's so slow...
01:03:00 <GeekDude> Peeerfect http://i.imgur.com/qOKek1o.png
01:04:00 <GeekDude> I just have to convert to a piet program now
01:04:18 <GeekDude> I see a lot of ROLLing in my future
01:04:45 <GeekDude> I could just cheat and use the C-like compiler
01:05:02 <boily> and against the grain of the esoteric spirit.
01:05:21 <elliott> boily: that was so not worth it
01:05:34 <GeekDude> I wrote my own piet interpreter and editor (This is the editor) http://i.imgur.com/W5pTmdk.png
01:06:02 <ais523> GeekDude: I'm disappointed, I was hoping that'd be the source code rather than a screenshot
01:06:14 <GeekDude> http://github.com/G33kDude/Piet
01:06:23 <GeekDude> I'm in the list of piet third party resources :)
01:06:30 <ais523> but now it turns out it isn't even written in piet :-(
01:06:47 <ais523> although, AutoHotKey, seriously?
01:07:07 <boily> elliott: so what. it's the compiling that counts, or something like that.
01:07:23 <boily> (unless you are referring to my very stupid and bad pun, then it's always worth it.)
01:08:21 <GeekDude> I don't think I caught the pun
01:08:41 * boily shows himself away.
01:09:21 <GeekDude> http://www.reddit.com/r/dailyprogrammer/comments/2j5929/10132014_challenge_184_easy_smart_stack_list/cl8qe5g
01:09:56 <elliott> reasons not to use autohotkey: people will pester you constantly about programming in autohotkey, because seriously
01:10:16 <ais523> elliott: but here, "seriously?" is a complement
01:10:24 <elliott> https://github.com/G33kDude/MyRC/blob/master/Socket.ahk oh good god
01:10:42 <GeekDude> That was written by an especially crazy german fellow
01:10:46 <elliott> oh, at least you didn't write that
01:10:48 <dianne> is "oh good god" a compliment too
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01:11:10 <GeekDude> elliott: Before that was a token based system
01:11:19 <GeekDude> and before that was a label based token based system
01:11:30 <ais523> there's a point where you move from impressed to seriously scared
01:11:32 <GeekDude> This is the best iteration of the autohotkey sockets library yet
01:12:15 <GeekDude> ais523: Does the fully fledged scintilla scripts editor written in autohotkey count for "seriously scared"? That one wasn't by me, but I do beta testing for it
01:13:09 <ais523> GeekDude: no, merely programming something massive in an utterly unsuitable language still just counts as impressive
01:13:42 <GeekDude> Speaking of which, I need to finish implementing the channel switcher in my RichEdit based IRC bot
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01:14:11 <GeekDude> As opposed to maestrith's (scintilla editor author) scintilla based IRC client
01:14:22 <GeekDude> I figured richedit was simpler and better suited to my use
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01:35:52 <GeekDude> Converting this into a bitmap is going to be buckets of fun
01:36:14 <GeekDude> I'm up to 51 lines of psudeo-assembly
01:38:11 <GeekDude> and haven't even finished the qualifier for the while statement
01:38:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Jasp]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40617 * 70.114.225.120 * (+2897) A minimal Scheme using JSON in place of S-Expressions
01:39:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Jasp]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40618&oldid=40617 * 70.114.225.120 * (+8) /* Jasp */
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01:56:45 <zzo38> In order to try to make a format for a program to decide how to arrange blocks (which may include gaps and references) into a file, I made up: http://sprunge.us/aVQa I am trying to decide: [1] If this is good so far [2] How the format of the "Edit" structure should be made
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01:58:00 <zzo38> (Or even if they are really needed at all)
02:01:38 <MDude> What are the blocks for?
02:03:33 <zzo38> They would be blocks of data which are placed into a file. For example the blocks might be text strings or subroutines or it might be something else
02:04:42 <zzo38> Since, some file formats use pointer of addresses of blocks so it might help to make them to overlap and fill in gaps with other blocks to make it optimal
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02:23:33 <shachaf> Taneb: oh, you invented d-modules, right?
02:23:56 <shachaf> i bet you can answer all my questions about tangent bundles and all those things
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03:44:14 <GeekDude> madbr: I managed to do something at least
03:44:21 <GeekDude> http://i.imgur.com/bEQHgCF.png
03:44:34 <GeekDude> which means that it's executing, at least
03:44:39 <GeekDude> It doesn't seem to be doing what I want though
03:45:07 <Bike> those are definitely stars.
03:45:27 <madbr> what language is that?
03:45:50 <GeekDude> So, piet, underneath autohotkey
03:46:57 <GeekDude> Just made a debug view in npiet
03:47:07 <GeekDude> Right off the bat I forgot to push 13
03:58:39 <GeekDude> It appears I've forgotten to pop a value somewhere
04:15:48 <ais523> >-[-[-<]>>+<]+> (15, 5) wrapping
04:15:50 <ais523> >-[-[-<]>>+<]> (14, 5) wrapping
04:16:00 <ais523> I was going to say "these can't both be right"
04:16:10 <ais523> but actually they can, the top one has a useless use of +
04:16:17 <ais523> so presumably it got generated by some sort of script?
04:17:02 <ais523> also for some reason we have 8 different ways to write 77
04:17:25 <Bike> that's pretty good. does that give you a (13, 5) solution?
04:19:08 <Sgeo> Can I store things that are not UI related in nib files?
04:19:27 <ais523> Bike: the (14, 5) is the (15, 5) with the UUo+ removed
04:19:41 <ais523> so someone's already done the obvious optimization
04:19:46 <Bike> oh, wait nvm yeah
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04:39:39 <GeekDude> madbr: http://i.imgur.com/ptcY3Y2.png
04:40:00 <GeekDude> Source code: http://i.imgur.com/lBn7KGy.png
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05:22:14 <Sgeo> Apparently Active Worlds has a Mac version these days
05:36:09 <Sgeo> Wish Apple was making money by selling the OS rather than hardware... the software's what I'm interested in
05:36:38 <Sgeo> Maybe with 'official' hardware that they guarantee a best experience with, but allow (but disclaim as likely lower quality) other hardware
05:37:01 <Sgeo> They don't seem to allow their customers to choose a lower 'quality' experience
05:38:30 <elliott> everyone knows disclaimers prevent people from having reaction to things
05:39:00 <Sgeo> People are a problem
05:39:30 <elliott> everyone also knows apple aren't very deliberately positioning themselves as higher-quality and upmarket and not spending resources catering to creating cheaper, lower-quality things
05:41:35 <Sgeo> I still don't understand the iPhone size thing. I thought they were keeping things the same resolution, or a multiple of it, to make development easier
05:41:45 <Sgeo> Now there's all different size iPhones
05:42:00 <Sgeo> Guess could still keep same resolution on different size devices
05:42:06 <Sgeo> But... could that be slightly ugly?
05:42:22 <elliott> http://www.paintcodeapp.com/news/iphone-6-screens-demystified
05:42:55 <elliott> the number of "points" was already changed: iphone I think 5 increased the height of the screen
05:43:13 <elliott> (and there is already ipad, in terms of multiple ios "point" resolutions)
05:44:44 <fizzie> This is exactly the most relevant question you could ask, but why is the "a" on the "Points: The content is defined mathematically --" row translucent on the "Original iPhone" but opaque on the iPhone sixes?
05:45:19 <elliott> fizzie: they only added backgrounds in the iphone 3gs
05:45:25 <elliott> before that all iphones were transparent.
05:49:13 <Sgeo> Notification Center is a really confusing name. Too similar to NSNotificationCenter, which afaik is unrelated
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07:09:06 <mroman> AutohotKit reminds me of AutoIt
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07:11:05 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/public/csvHelper.au3 <- I've used lots of AutoIt in my windows-administrator and software-deployment past :)
07:11:50 <mroman> We had several tools for OS-migration user-migration etc. written in AutoIt
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07:14:28 <mroman> ais523: Does MediaWiki have a "Blame" feature?
07:14:48 <ais523> mroman: not an easy one, as far as I know
07:15:00 <ais523> there's enough data stored to calculate it, but I don't know if anything actually does the calculation
07:16:16 <mroman> Grepping history isn't possible as well I guess
07:16:41 <mroman> (like grepping for who changed foobaz to foobar)
07:18:00 <ais523> it wouldn't surprise me if someone had written a blame calculator by now
07:18:10 <ais523> although it'd probably be on the toolserver, thus wikimedia-specific
07:19:38 <mroman> I might have added the 14b for 33
07:20:12 <mroman> hm no. That one got removed
07:20:22 <mroman> because it leaves the tape to the left
07:22:05 <mroman> Performance wise it's not very wise to use these constants :)
07:22:19 <mroman> some of the small solutions I found spend like 5k cycles
07:23:02 <ais523> what if they get optimized into constants?
07:23:34 <mroman> I know some bf implementations can do that
07:24:01 <ais523> balanced loop polynomializing is the normal standard optimization for this sort of thing
07:24:09 <ais523> but the really crazy constants use unbalanced loops
07:25:35 <fizzie> Heh, got a very strongly worded letter from IEEE about some over-length page charges that were allegedly due in May.
07:25:49 <fizzie> It mentions "numerous messages" they've sent, none of which I've received.
07:26:06 <fizzie> Wonder where those have all gotten to.
07:26:28 <mroman> ^- is this unbalanced?
07:26:33 <ais523> yes, [-<] is unbalanced
07:26:44 <ais523> the number of < doesn't equal the number of >
07:27:05 <ais523> now I'm interested in BF busy beavers
07:27:06 <mroman> well... but it saves you 3B from the other solutions!
07:27:14 <fizzie> There's that binary search thing that's vaguely blame-like.
07:27:28 <ais523> come to think of it, blame would work poorly on Wikipedia
07:27:31 <ais523> due to all the reverts
07:27:39 <mroman> I used my crunchfuck thingy and a friend of mine who ran it over night to find those constants
07:28:14 <ais523> mroman: was the particular form of that program something that you were explicitly looking for? or did you just try random programs?
07:28:27 <fizzie> The http://wikipedia.ramselehof.de/wikiblame.php?lang=en&article=Esoteric_programming_language thing.
07:28:36 <fizzie> (For Wikipedia, not for our wiki.)
07:29:09 <mroman> ais523: it was an exhaustive search of all combinations of ><.+-[] up to 15B
07:29:33 <mroman> so I generated every variation/combination, checked if it's a legal brainfuck program, then executed it with max 5k cycles
07:29:59 <ais523> so if there are any better sub-15 constants than the ones on the wiki, they run for even more than 5k cycles?
07:30:01 <mroman> however, the interpreter wrapped around on leave-the-tape-to-the-left
07:30:08 <mroman> so some short solutions it found weren't correct
07:30:38 <mroman> which means there might still be solutions <=15B that run in under than 5k cycles
07:30:56 <lifthrasiir> mroman: so to say, any listed solutions which size is <= 15B is proved optimal?
07:31:19 <ais523> lifthrasiir: proved to be optimal within 5k cycles
07:31:42 <mroman> my interpreter had a fixed amount of cells with wrap-around behaviour
07:31:54 <ais523> oh, within 5k cycles and a relatively small number of cells
07:32:07 <ais523> I guess you could just use 5k cells, then lightspeed would mean that the fixed width wouldn't matter
07:32:09 <mroman> My program for example told me 13B 200 +[-->-[-<]>]>
07:32:11 <lifthrasiir> is it hard to classify non-terminating or long-lasting programs automatically, just like what was done with busy beavers?
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07:32:23 <mroman> which I had to correct to >+[-->-[-<]>]> to not leave the tape to the left
07:32:33 <mroman> which means there *could* be another 13B solution to 200
07:33:18 <mroman> ais523: you could fix the leave-tape issue in my crunchfuck.c
07:33:21 <mroman> then run it over night
07:33:46 <mroman> I think up to 15B can be done in a weekend for 5k cycles
07:33:56 <mroman> and it's a single-core program
07:34:05 <ais523> <lifthrasiir> is it hard to classify non-terminating or long-lasting programs automatically ← you're getting /suspiciously/ close to the halting problem, there
07:34:21 <lifthrasiir> of course. but some optimizations can be done.
07:34:54 <lifthrasiir> I suspect some clever generation algorithm can eliminate a whole class of redundant simulations...
07:35:35 <coppro> lifthrasiir: you can certainly eliminate some programs from consideration
07:35:49 <elliott> katla (IIRC?) was once on a project to find the shortest BF program whose termination status is unknown
07:36:03 <coppro> for instance, you can pick some N, and if a program gets stuck in a loop in N or fewer steps, then it doesn't terminate
07:36:10 <coppro> if it halts in N or fewer steps, it obviously does
07:36:20 <elliott> by doing a lot of simulation to weed out quick-halting ones, more advanced analysis to deduce some of the rest as non-halting, and manual review for what's left, I believe
07:36:23 <ais523> knowing the busy beaver behaviour of BF would be very helpful
07:36:41 <ais523> but probably just as difficult as solving the original problem
07:36:47 <elliott> I think it would be an interesting project; I wonder how long programs would be before running into a program that this channel can't figure out the halting behaviour of
07:37:27 <elliott> intuitively I'd guess that we could figure any given, like, length 10 BF programs easily
07:37:52 <elliott> but I doubt you have to go too high before finding something that stumps humans
07:37:58 <ais523> even 10's long enough to write programs where it'd at least take us several minutes, I think
07:38:20 <elliott> like, what is the kolgomorov complexity of checking the goldbach conjecture?
07:38:50 <Sgeo> Must... not... spend... hundreds of dollars on a desktop environment I will probably get bored of
07:38:57 <ais523> the problem is, finding programs with ambiguous halt behaviour is harder than trying to work out halt behaviour manually
07:39:00 <ais523> Sgeo: don't, seriously
07:39:03 <AndoDaan> mroman: the implementation you use, is it 256 non-wrap, and 30K cells wrap-around?
07:40:01 <Sgeo> What's the closest equivalent to an OSX-like environment in the Linux world? KDE?
07:40:07 <elliott> ais523: if you can execute a lot of BF programs in parallel you can run a lot of them for a lot of cycles pretty easily, and filtering out trivial infinite loops is easy
07:40:21 <Sgeo> KDE is all C++y though :/
07:40:33 <ais523> Sgeo: Ubuntu Unity has something that works almost identically to the OS X dock
07:40:37 <elliott> you'd need more advanced analysis on top of that for length 10, but with dedicated humans getting through whatever's left after that...
07:40:41 <ais523> except for pinning files
07:41:00 <ais523> which is completely different
07:41:06 <Sgeo> I'm thinking more in terms of development
07:41:09 <ais523> but then, Windows 7 is pretty similar to both
07:41:29 <ais523> in terms of development, OS X uses its own entire programming languages (Objective-C and Swift) that nobody else uses
07:43:54 <Sgeo> What about libraries and programs interacting with other programs in the DE?
07:44:04 <Sgeo> A DE with an equivalent of AppleScript, for example
07:45:01 <ais523> KDE does most of that stuff through dbus
07:45:12 <elliott> if sgeo wants to buy a mac v. ais523 doesn't want sgeo to buy a mac carries on long enough it will be worth the cost of a mac for me to stop having to see it. what i'm saying is, keep arguing if you want sgeo to receive a free mac
07:45:13 <ais523> I haven't found a way to make most Gnome programs scriptable at all
07:45:32 <ais523> elliott: atm we're discussing Linux
07:45:42 <ais523> although, hmm, we were having an ontopic conversation before this
07:46:42 <Sgeo> They sometimes have Macs at libraries, right?
07:46:51 <Sgeo> I still want one in a VM though, and don't trust BitTorrent
07:47:14 <ais523> hmm, I'm wondering if this is reaching the point where it's impossible to give Sgeo good advice because he's Sgeo
07:47:20 <elliott> what don't you trust about bittorrent, exactly
07:48:11 <ais523> elliott: it worries network administrators, annoys ISPs, and you have to at least trust the other end to give you the file you want (like with an HTTP or FTP download)
07:48:38 <Sgeo> Anyone could easily be monitoring who's downloading the file
07:48:51 <Sgeo> Rather than just one server (and anyone in between if http)
07:49:02 <Sgeo> "Smalltalk-based pure object-oriented environment to work with Mac OS X software." this sounds appealing
07:49:32 <ais523> Smalltalk + interacting with anything outside Smalltalk sounds /appealing/?
07:49:40 <ais523> remember, it was my disgust at the situation that lead me to invent Feather
07:49:42 <ais523> Feather, of all things!
07:49:48 <elliott> even in america i'm pretty sure you never get more than an isp letter for first violation
07:49:48 <ais523> this needs more exclamation marks
07:50:22 <elliott> of course private trackers exist
07:50:35 <elliott> Sgeo: also, anyone between you and any machine you talk to can monitor any unencrypted communication
07:50:44 <elliott> that's kind of how the internet works
07:50:58 * elliott runs some traceroutes for fun and profit
07:51:25 <elliott> (and downloading some known file over https isn't really opaque; the size is enough to give it away a lot of the time)
07:51:33 <Sgeo> But it might be easier for spying entities to connect to a tracker than to MITM/work with company/ISP with MITP capability
07:51:55 <Sgeo> Or at least, that's what I keep thinking. Maybe that's not accurate
07:52:07 <elliott> Sgeo: have you seen all the internet routing accidents?
07:52:17 <elliott> where random ASes say "hey, I serve [gigantic block of IPs] now"
07:52:31 <elliott> and a ton of .govs suddenly get routed through china (seriously, this happened recently)?
07:52:38 <ais523> well, we know from the Prenda Law stuff that there are some highly incompetent people who can monitor a tracker in such a way that they accidentally make all the downloads from their honeypot legal, but not intercept HTTP
07:53:27 <elliott> (there is some level of filtering done to routing announcements. but not enough to prevent regular disasters like that. the internet's routing is based on trust, even more than, like, the CA system)
07:53:53 <ais523> elliott: the amount of filtering used increases every time something like this happens
07:53:56 <ais523> which is quite frequently
07:54:16 <ais523> there was that time a while back where a government decided to block YouTube by blackholing its IP
07:54:23 <elliott> ais523: sure, but AFAIK it doesn't help many hops later
07:54:24 <ais523> and the block leaked quite some distance beyond national borders
07:54:43 <elliott> and you don't need disasters this dramatic to do things
07:55:47 <Sgeo> Assuming that Intel Graphics is still a euphemism for suck, the only Mac notebook with decent graphics is $2499
07:56:22 <elliott> so are regular intel graphics, up to a point
07:56:43 <elliott> also, don't you, like, have a computer with a graphics card already?
07:56:44 <ais523> I actually seek out intel graphics because the Linux drivers have better packaging
07:56:57 <ais523> the nvidia packaging is really obnoxious when it goes wrong
07:58:14 <Sgeo> elliott: I'm thinking if I were to start switching to Mac for some insane reason
07:59:45 <Sgeo> (this is not particularly likely at this point)
07:59:47 <mroman> AndoDaan: It had 256 wrap-around and 256 cells
07:59:48 <elliott> maybe you should try a platform before making a decision like that, given that the added expense of doing so kind of pales in comparison to how much it'd cost you anyway, if you require discrete graphics.
08:00:04 <mroman> some incredibly short solution used all those 256 cells :)
08:00:10 <mroman> and wrapped around memory a few times
08:04:09 <Sgeo> Wonder if a WINE-like thing for Cocoa would ever be written
08:04:20 <Sgeo> Not requiring recompilation
08:04:46 <elliott> something like that was done, I think, for command-line os x programs
08:04:59 <AndoDaan> ah. ok, thanks. Are you only searching for number constants?
08:05:11 <fizzie> ais523: Re "trust the other end to give you the file you want", surely bittorrent blocks are hash-verified, if you get the torrent file from a reliable source?
08:05:45 <ais523> fizzie: yes but you need someone to give you a reliable version of the hash
08:06:02 <ais523> it's the self-signed cert problem, you can verify that you're communicating with someone securely, but have no idea who it is
08:06:14 <elliott> almost sort of like downloading literally anything
08:06:21 <ais523> I did make that point earlier
08:06:34 <elliott> breaking news: bittorrent unreliable, knowing whether anything or true or not is possible, world collapsing
08:06:44 <elliott> ...er, impossible. but how do you know?
08:06:47 <ais523> ofc, my solution to it is kind-of inevitable if you know me
08:08:03 <fizzie> ais523: Well, you get the torrent files from the corresponding (HTTPS) project websites, I guess.
08:08:25 <Sgeo> I have no way to know whether an OSX I download is genuine OSX. But since it will be in a VM, my level of concern is fairly low
08:08:37 <Sgeo> Assuming I never log into anything ever from the VM
08:08:39 <ais523> fizzie: sure, that'd work, and it's what I use to verify downloads from people like Microsoft
08:09:50 <elliott> Sgeo: if you're able to google "os x [version] hash" and click a lot of links, you can get high levels of certainty you have genuine OS X
08:09:58 <elliott> microsoft even provide official install cd hashes
08:10:03 <elliott> don't think apple do though
08:10:21 <ais523> elliott: Microsoft provide their official install CD for download full stop, though
08:10:27 <Sgeo> But are things like Niresh actually straight OSX? I doubt it
08:10:30 <ais523> just it doesn't work without activation
08:10:31 <elliott> (actually, spoiler, the really useful thing microsoft provide is file sizes, because you can search for them in some torrent search engines (but not file hashes, that I've seen))
08:10:47 <elliott> I guess they realised it was a terrible idea to let literally anyone run windows illegally with zero effort
08:10:53 <ais523> elliott: a couple of days ago someone downloaded their tool for downloading the official install CD, and it worked
08:11:02 <elliott> without an existing windows install?
08:11:07 <ais523> just the link to it is kind-of hidden because their website organization is terrible
08:11:16 <ais523> they had an existing install, it wasn't working
08:11:20 <ais523> needed the download to reinstall
08:11:34 <elliott> okay, well, I mean if you want it illegally like sgeo :p
08:11:55 <ais523> why would I want it illegally?
08:12:04 <Sgeo> I'd be happy to pay for it if only I could put it on this machine in a VM
08:12:20 <ais523> doing things legally wrt closed-source software has almost become a case of malicious compliance for me at this point
08:12:40 <fizzie> What's the situation with Windows licenses and VMs again, can you do that for e.g. all retails versions, or is it special?
08:12:48 <elliott> ais523: you're having a serious problem distinguishing yourself from sgeo
08:13:13 <ais523> elliott: I'm different from him in that our clearly absurd behaviour is in a different direction
08:13:30 <ais523> also, I'm aware that most people consider my behaviour absurd
08:13:43 <elliott> I mean, you're answering things I say wrt sgeo as if they were wrt you :p
08:14:13 <ais523> fizzie: I know there's at least a "each VM counts as a different computer" restriction; IIRC there's no restriction on putting retail on a VM besides that, but I might be remembering wrong
08:14:48 <ais523> elliott: "<elliott> okay, well, I mean if you want it illegally like sgeo :p" was clearly directed at me, you don't refer to someone in the second person and third person in the same sentence
08:14:56 <fizzie> I guess you can't put an OEM copy in a VM because there's no E involved.
08:15:01 <elliott> you're trolling me, right?
08:16:02 <ais523> I wasn't planning to troll you specifically, but I'm tired which gives me a tendency to intentionally drive conversations towards the absurd, which is a subset of trolling the channel generally
08:21:05 <shachaf> I don't think the driving conversations toward the absurd is a subset of trolling.
08:21:11 <Sgeo> I wish Apple event was more googlable
08:22:22 <Sgeo> "tell app "Sketch" to set the x position of rectangle 1 of document "SketchDocOne" to 25"
08:22:27 <Sgeo> AppleScript looks gross
08:24:04 <fizzie> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/about-licensing/virtualization.aspx#tab=2 er, was this really the optimal way of presenting this information?
08:24:48 <fizzie> (It was all about volume licensing stuff, anyway.)
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08:26:06 <fizzie> "Do I need a Windows VDA subscription license to remotely access my work PC (licensed to run Windows 8.1 Pro) in the office from my home PC (licensed to run Windows 7 Home Premium)?" "The Windows VDA subscription license is not required if you are the single primary user of the licensed device (work PC in the office). In that case, you may remotely access that PC from any device. Non-primary users may access that PC if the remote device is separately lic
08:26:18 <fizzie> I wouldn't even have thought of the question in the first place.
08:27:56 <ais523> <fizzie> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/about-licensing/virtualization.aspx#tab=2 er, was this really the optimal way of presenting this information? ← what the, seriously?
08:27:56 <Sgeo> "non-polio entereovirus" that makes it sound like polio is an entereovirus
08:28:07 <Sgeo> "non-polio entereovirus" that makes it sound like polio is an entereovirus
08:28:13 <Sgeo> Apparently it is
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08:28:55 <elliott> there's nothing I love more than watching videos about windows licensing.
08:29:13 <elliott> fizzie: got cut off at "if the remote device is separately lic"
08:29:50 <fizzie> -- if the remote device is separately licensed to run Windows 8.1 Pro or the remote device has the active Windows VDA subscription license." these are deep waters
08:30:07 <fizzie> Did something unload my splitlong.pl.
08:32:00 <ais523> AFAICT this video is just text with random animations added to fill space, that don't seem to obey any consistent scheme for conveying information
08:32:46 <ais523> really, this is the second-worst idea in license advertising since the old CLC-INTERCAL license agreement
08:33:48 <ais523> err, license communication?
08:36:44 <ais523> actually, this is pretty worrying too: http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/about-licensing/briefs/winserv2012-rds.aspx
08:36:59 <ais523> not the PDF itself (I haven't read it), but the wrapper page
08:37:09 <elliott> what was the old CLC license, again?
08:37:37 <ais523> I'm not sure, it had to be compiled before use
08:38:14 <ais523> and I don't have a CLC-INTERCAL version with that license agreement, IIRC (or that's old enough to compile it successfully)
08:38:29 <ais523> I guess it was presumably written in IACC?
08:39:19 <fizzie> ais523: Here's how I managed to make the video look by clicking around for a while: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20141015-video.png
08:39:31 <fizzie> It's very informative.
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08:59:14 <elliott> fizzie: that's basically what using windows feels like
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09:05:58 <HackEgo> 138) <Phantom_Hoover> It's only been 2 months since anyone last made a commit! <alise> WRONG 8 WEEKS \ 352) <ais523_> meanwhile, I've been running a program for over 24 hours (getting close to 48 now) which is calculating digits of pi, in binary <ais523_> so far, it has found four digits <ais523_> I hope it will find the fifth some time this wee
09:06:18 <ais523> right, 352 is what I was looking for
09:06:27 <HackEgo> 352) <ais523_> meanwhile, I've been running a program for over 24 hours (getting close to 48 now) which is calculating digits of pi, in binary <ais523_> so far, it has found four digits <ais523_> I hope it will find the fifth some time this week
09:06:34 <ais523> only one letter got cut off, so…
09:06:48 <coppro> what language was this program written in?
09:06:57 <mroman> how do binary digits work?
09:07:38 <coppro> mroman: the first decimal place is 1/2, the second is 1/4, the third is 1/8, etc
09:07:42 <ais523> coppro: to give some context, this program operated on computable reals with no dynamic storage
09:08:05 <ais523> it's like the worst possible coding style for the problem it was solving, we did it just to prove it was possible
09:08:24 <coppro> please tell me that's in the pdf
09:09:00 <ais523> basically, imagine Haskell except it uses call-by-name not call-by-need, then imagine the optimization nightmare that happens when you try to do list processing
09:10:26 <mroman> is call-by-name implemented by inlining?
09:10:37 <mroman> or are there more advanced techniques?
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09:10:56 <elliott> it's implemented by closure-passing, really
09:11:15 <ais523> in our Verity implementation, it's implemented via dynamic reconnection
09:11:27 <elliott> I meant in general, but yeah
09:11:30 <ais523> basically, think inlining only you have just the one copy of the function and dynamically change where it is in the code
09:11:51 <elliott> that sounds interesting. you should explain fpgas to me sometime :p
09:12:04 <ais523> do you know what a multiplexer is?
09:12:07 <elliott> or, I guess "dynamic reconnection" sounds fancier than it actually is.
09:12:24 <elliott> I was thinking of wires, like, physically moving, except possible somehow.
09:12:32 <elliott> I really should be getting to sleep though.
09:12:33 <ais523> it's basically just and and or gates
09:13:09 <ais523> actually it's surprisingly difficult to get right, and harder to get efficient, with all possible call patterns (including higher-order functions and tuples)
09:13:53 <ais523> trying to optimize out obvious inefficiencies in it is my current project
09:15:34 <mroman> AndoDaan: yes @number constants
09:17:05 <mroman> I guess I could write a multi-threaded variant of crunchfuck
09:17:12 <mroman> that doesn't have the same bug :)
09:17:29 <coppro> man oracle writes such crap
09:17:50 <mroman> then with enough time you can state that every program <15B is optimal for <5k cycles
09:18:00 <ais523> and I'd prefer it if I didn't use the reasoning of "if «single-bit memory location» is 0 here, we have UB, thus it must be 1"
09:18:14 <ais523> I'd prefer to prove that it's 0 (because it will be, in those cases, barring compiler bugs)
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09:49:51 <mroman> the wikidump size doubles every two year or so
09:50:15 <mroman> 2012 it was barely 20MB
09:50:49 <ais523> that's slower than generalized moore's law
09:52:13 <coppro> how complex is it to find the bitwise closure of a set of numbers
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09:54:21 <coppro> closure under bitwise AND, OR, XOR, specifically
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09:55:01 <ais523> that's simple: any bit position where all the numbers are 0, you can only have a 0
09:55:18 <ais523> because you can't apply the operations to bits individually
09:55:26 <ais523> sorry, was in INTERCAL mode for a moment
09:55:46 <coppro> I may just optimize and assume that you can
09:55:55 <coppro> someone else can figure out an efficient way to do this
09:56:03 <ais523> NP-complete, even with just OR you have the subset sum problem
09:56:19 <coppro> I just want the concept patch to go in so that people will support it
09:56:38 <ais523> there might be a shortcut, depending on what you're trying to do
09:56:55 <coppro> ais523: I'm not convinced you can reduce general subset sum to it
09:57:51 <coppro> I'm trying to make clange understand flag type enums so that it won't warn if you assign enum_const_1 | enum_const_3 to an object of enum type
09:58:36 <ais523> coppro: my suggestion would be, check that all the enum constants are powers of 2
09:58:50 <ais523> if so, accept any enum value that happens to contain only bits that are represented by enum constants
09:58:54 <ais523> this is close to what structdesc does
09:59:15 <ais523> also, I thought of the wrong NP-complete problem
09:59:30 <ais523> I was thinking of exact cover
09:59:34 <ais523> which does reduce to that pretty simply
10:00:37 <ais523> how do you prevent multiple uses of the same value?
10:03:13 <ais523> it still feels NP-complete but I'm less sure of a concrete proof
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10:06:58 <coppro> oh, it's a fairly simple reduction from SAT
10:08:07 <coppro> actually wait, without NOT, I'm not sure that works
10:08:17 <coppro> (also I want to rescind XOR from my original specification)
10:08:25 <coppro> I do agree it feels NP-complete
10:13:09 <ais523> you can use the http://esolangs.org/wiki/Not_The_Main_Worb trick for that
10:13:15 <ais523> represent any value as two bits, either 01 or 10
10:13:23 <ais523> actually, no, that doesn't obviously work
10:13:29 <ais523> it might help but I'm not sure it does
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10:19:50 <coppro> now I'm curious about what groups subset-sum is NP-complete for
10:22:23 <Jafet> Isn't it trivial to compute enum_1 | enum_3 at compile time
10:23:24 <ais523> Jafet: yes, but it's nontrivial to determine that the resulting value is valid for the enum
10:23:29 <ais523> however, this raises a separate solution
10:23:46 <ais523> why not just not warn if the expression being assigned is made up only of and/or/xor/enumconstant /tokens/?
10:23:47 <Jafet> Aren't enums, you know, enumerated
10:24:08 <ais523> enums as bitfields is a little awkward, indeed
10:24:22 <ais523> but the other alternatives are even less suitable, assuming you want an actual integer rather than a struct
10:41:46 <boily> Jafet: enums are enums, unless you are in the Java world.
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11:14:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Boat]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40619&oldid=17005 * 134.225.2.132 * (+3)
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12:29:15 <mroman> "If Your Cloud Vendor Goes Out of Business, Are You Ready?"
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12:35:07 <mroman> They fall down to earth as rain, get soaked up by earth.
12:35:23 <mroman> until the data vapors and starts to build new clouds.
12:37:37 <Phantom_Hoover> oh is this that whole thing where none of the cloud companies are actually making money
12:38:06 <mroman> They aren't making money?
12:39:47 <mroman> Amazon is losing money apparentely.
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12:46:05 <int-e> doesn't look dramatic
12:47:07 <int-e> they increased their R&D investment by 240M and incurred a loss of 126M in the last quarter.
12:48:50 <fizzie> Was that EC2-specific or across Amazon as a whole?
12:50:19 <fizzie> I have a friend who went from our research group to Amazon's new speech technology thing in Germany a year ago, maybe that 240M was his wages. Then again, maybe not. (But based on conference appearances, they're really expanding that team; maybe it's indicative of some sort of a trend.)
12:50:56 <b_jonas> that always reminds me to http://www.xkcd.com/908/
12:52:10 <mroman> You can rent storage space in my cloud
12:52:18 <mroman> proudly backed up by floppy disks
12:52:32 <mroman> so in case I go belly-up I'll just send you the floppy
12:53:05 <mroman> (No files larger than 1.44MB please)
12:53:27 <fizzie> I hope you have some sort of an escrow account for the mailing costs on the floppy.
12:57:45 <mroman> That's covered by the rent.
13:01:28 <mroman> That's covered by the rent which is transferred partly to some escrow agreement.
13:02:52 <mroman> I can also offer you 0.5kB of inmemory storage
13:03:24 <mroman> with a $1 fine per bit you exceed it
13:03:52 <mroman> (you'll also get 0.5kb per Month)
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13:35:25 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: quintopia coppro myname mroman(use query)
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13:36:30 <oerjan> <coppro> I do agree it feels NP-complete <-- it's not, with or without xor, unless the number of _bits_ is exponentially large.
13:36:31 <fizzie> oerjan: Should that particular list escape the nicknames so that they don't highlight (but you can still see them)?
13:37:24 <fizzie> Oh, does it already do it?
13:37:44 <oerjan> took me a while to get that into HackEgo with sed
13:37:48 <fizzie> I thought I was having an Idea™, but apparently it was just a copy. :/
13:38:52 <oerjan> especially as i didn't want to highlight people while i was doing it
13:38:59 <fizzie> sed 's/./&/g' looks patently silly on first glance, before looking at it closer.
13:39:36 <fizzie> I was about to say that perhaps that's overly escaped, but then I forgot some people have partial nickname highlights, so maybe that's for the best.
13:40:16 <oerjan> if the list gets long enough that it starts overrunning limits, we can rethink it.
13:40:47 <oerjan> i guess just changing . to .. or ... would work.
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13:41:20 <fizzie> My initial instinct would've been ^., but the only partial nick-highlight I know of is at the wrong end for that to work.
13:43:15 <oerjan> technically i also do a partial search when i'm logreading. also at the wrong end.
13:43:30 <fizzie> Perhaps s/^\(.\)\(.*\)\(.\)$/\1\2\3/ but that's both ugly and overly complicated.
13:44:10 <oerjan> oklopol might have an initial one, not that he's here these days
13:45:03 <fizzie> Today we had a departmental lunch at the nearby Turkish place, and people started talking about the aliasing effects visible in the gap pattern of the lampshade.
13:45:17 <fizzie> Made me wonder if it's a frequently asked question there, whether that's intentional or not.
13:46:13 <fizzie> (It's a circular lampshade with this |-shape thin holes going around it, so if you watch through the near and far rims, there's a moiré thing.)
13:47:49 <oerjan> come to think of it, .. and ... won't work because there's at least one person here with a 2-char nick
13:48:15 <fizzie> .. with the \u200b in the middle should work.
13:48:30 <fizzie> You can't meaningfully escape a single-character nick, anyway.
13:48:42 <oerjan> right, but that's a more complicated regexp
13:49:17 <oerjan> indeed, but i don't think they're free on freenode anyway
13:49:31 <fizzie> Right, it'd be s/\(.\)\(.\)/\1\2/g.
13:49:53 <fizzie> The thing where sed regexps are BRE-style with meaningful ()s need \s is quite annoy.
13:50:09 <lambdabot> EFHK 151320Z 03012KT 9999 SCT018 BKN030 04/M00 Q1016 NOSIG
13:50:30 <lambdabot> ENVA 151320Z 17007KT 140V200 CAVOK 11/03 Q1014 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 17020KT
13:52:13 <fizzie> Forecast here suggests sub-zero temperatures for the Thu/Fri and Fri/Sat nights. (Which has usually been my cue to stop biking to work.)
13:54:34 <oerjan> coppro: to elaborate, you can find the atoms of the related boolean algebra/lattice in time polynomial in the total number of bits and number of sets to combine
13:55:38 <oerjan> coppro: and then it's just a matter of checking whether the test set is the union of the atoms it contains
13:56:38 <oerjan> hm actually lattice (without xor) is more complicated than algebra, but i _think_ it still holds.
13:57:58 <oerjan> then you need something more than atoms, i guess. oh hm.
13:58:12 <oerjan> ok i'm not entirely sure without xor any more.
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14:10:47 <oerjan> coppro: oh wait it's simple without xor too. let G be your set of generating numbers. For each bit position n, let G_n=intersection{m\in G|n is set in m}, and then M is in the closure iff M == union {G_n | n set in M}.
14:11:28 <oerjan> *n'th bit, in a couple places
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14:12:34 <oerjan> if you _do_ include xor, then just add {(union G) minus m|m\in G} to your generator set first.
14:13:10 <oerjan> (i.e. all the complements relative to the union.)
14:13:42 <oerjan> s/minus/xor/ to keep within the operations given
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14:57:47 <Melvar> < fizzie> The thing where sed regexps are BRE-style with meaningful ()s need \s is quite annoy. – sed -r ?
14:59:15 <fizzie> That wouldn't be POSIXly compliant. But I guess it'd be a reasonable workaround on HackEgo.
15:04:20 <coppro> oerjan: I don't follow
15:04:40 <coppro> M == union {G_n | n set in M}; M is a number, the union is a set
15:06:27 <oerjan> coppro: i may not be distinguishing bit sets and numbers here
15:07:47 <oerjan> coppro: all the sets are also numbers hth
15:08:35 <coppro> oerjan: G_n is not a bit set though
15:08:50 <coppro> it's a set of generators
15:09:03 <oerjan> no, it's the intersection of them
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15:10:33 <oerjan> basically this problem is _about_ bit sets in essence, so the numbers are just confusing
15:10:40 <coppro> oerjan: that doesn't work
15:11:04 <coppro> oh, nvm, you're including AND, right?
15:11:11 <coppro> I thought you were talking about just OR
15:11:44 <oerjan> AND and OR, and optionally XOR
15:12:03 <oerjan> of course if you have OR and XOR, you also have AND
15:12:52 <coppro> ... wait, how do you get AND from OR and XOR if you don't have access to 0?
15:14:30 <oerjan> to get 1, just OR all the generators, this suffices for this purpose.
15:15:09 <oerjan> for this purpose it's true. it's not the true 1 but it works for constructing AND with.
15:15:17 <coppro> oerjan: you'll need to do 0 XOR 0
15:16:02 <coppro> > let x = 5 `xor` 5 in x `xor` x
15:17:49 <oerjan> if you have just OR, it's also simply, just take the union of all the generators contained in your number
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15:34:54 <lambdabot> a(0) = 0, a(n) = a(n-1) XOR n.[0,1,3,0,4,1,7,0,8,1,11,0,12,1,15,0,16,1,19,0,...
15:35:03 <lambdabot> a(0) = 0, a(n) = a(n-1) XOR n.[0,1,3,0,4,1,7,0,8,1,11,0,12,1,15,0,16,1,19,0,...
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15:53:06 <Slereah> Try not recording any scat porn in Africa
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16:12:11 <quintopia> i need to make a language called Blast
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16:15:45 <AndoDaan> center origin for the code, it mixes, reacts and explodes. and where the pieces fly and lie is the program?
16:32:06 <MDude> One time my brother was talking with Comcast over changing around the internet setup at his office.
16:34:14 <MDude> After noticing it on his bill, he was paying $50 a month for "something called Blast", and asked what it was. The person on the other end had no idea.
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18:04:19 <fizzie> http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?A006520/teebee_1412040120&oct man, I never think of things like this because I come to Octave from MATLAB, where assignment is definitely not an expression.
18:04:54 <fizzie> (Mine was the two characters longer bitand(1:500,511:-1:12) instead.)
18:05:44 <quintopia> i think i'll stick with matlab anyway
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18:06:22 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/JNiY
18:06:46 <fizzie> There have been occasions where MATLAB's restricted syntax has been an annoyance.
18:07:14 <fizzie> Not for including assignments as an expression, except maybe for some sort of while a=... kind of loop perhaps.
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18:10:18 <int-e> the author of this dialog should be shot. http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/yesno.png
18:12:23 <int-e> (It's a completely useless deviation from the pervasive "are you sure" template that gives "no" the same meaning as "cancel")
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18:22:57 <fizzie> MATLAB also won't let you subscript an arbitrary expression (except by a really ugly subsref() function call), just a variable.
18:23:10 <fizzie> elliott: It's a Thunderbird/Icedove dialog, I'm pretty sure.
18:23:16 <fizzie> Because I saw it just today.
18:24:03 <Melvar> It looks to be very clear about what the buttons mean.
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19:45:30 <fizzie> I just wasted at least an hour catching up with someone who had beaten my Befunge-93 pocket solution. This golf thing is dangerously addictive. :/
19:48:17 <mroman> fizzie: that's the point of golfing :)
19:50:20 <fizzie> I thought it was just harmless, good, clean fun. :/
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19:55:39 <fizzie> I didn't just catch up, I went past by two bytes *happy*
19:58:16 <Somelauw> i wrote my first brainfuck program to compute fibonacci numbers. it is 451 bytes long and i used some snippets from esolangs.org
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19:59:25 <fizzie> I've been told that both S-Q-L and sequel are acceptable.
19:59:38 <fizzie> "SQL (/ˈɛs kjuː ˈɛl/,[4] or /ˈsiːkwəl/; --"
20:00:06 <Bicyclidine> a guy told me he was working with sequel databases and i had no idea what he was talking about
20:01:23 <fizzie> "SQL, n. Pronunciation: Brit./ɛskjuːˈɛl/ , /ˈsiːkw(ə)l/ , U.S. /ˌɛsˌkjuˈɛl/ , /ˈsikw(ə)l/" says OED.
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20:02:49 <fizzie> To be fair, it is a derivative of SEQUEL ("Structured English Query Language"), if you look at the history.
20:03:11 <fizzie> "The acronym SEQUEL was later changed to SQL because "SEQUEL" was a trademark of the UK-based Hawker Siddeley aircraft company."
20:03:24 <Bicyclidine> oh, here i was thinking it was always just structured query.
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20:10:55 <mroman> fizzie: it is good fun
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20:14:16 <fizzie> Actually, didn't we have
20:14:23 <fungot> echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping def a thanks tmp2 8ball
20:14:26 <fungot> 0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55.89.144.233.377.610.987.1597.2584.4181.6765.10946.17711.28657.46368.75025.121393.196418.317811.514229.832040.1346269.2178309.3524578.5702887.9227465.14930352.24157817.39088169.632459 ...
20:14:31 <fungot> >+10>+>+[[+5[>+8<-]>.<+6[>-8<-]+<3]>.>>[[-]<[>+<-]>>[<2+>+>-]<[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>[-]>+>+<3-[>+<-]]]]]]]]]]]+>>>]<3][]
20:14:41 <fizzie> Speaking of Fibonacci and brainfuck.
20:15:40 <mroman> ^unscramble ^scramble fibonacci
20:16:20 <fizzie> Perhaps there should be a ^. command that'd chain two, though that sounds like a hassle.
20:16:23 <fungot> hi there i there there there here ere re e
20:16:42 <fungot> Thanks, fungot. Thungot.
20:16:54 <fizzie> I wrote that when HackEgo was being down.
20:17:06 <fizzie> And it wasn't entirely trivial to replace the exact logic of `thanks.
20:17:08 <fungot> >2,[>,]+15[>+6>+7>+3>+2<4-]>-6.>-.-7.+13.-3.+8.>-.>+2.<5[<]>[.>]>3+2.>.<3.<2[<]>[[-<2+>+>]+<-97[-4[-4[-6[-6[-4[>-<[-]]]]]]]>[[>]>2-11.<3[<]<.>3[.>]>3.>5][-]>]<3[[<]>2[.>]>5.>2]
20:17:19 <fizzie> I'm sure it could be simplified, but still.
20:17:32 <fungot> ............................................................................................................................................................................................................... ...
20:17:37 <fungot> I think you mean @tell instead?
20:17:51 <fungot> ............................................................................................................................................................................................................... ...
20:18:01 <fizzie> Just someone playing around, I think.
20:18:17 <fizzie> \n and \r get filtered to '.' though.
20:18:35 <fungot> >2,[<2+>2[-<2[->+2<]>[-<+>]>],]<2.
20:19:07 <fizzie> "tmp" is what I redefine to test the bytecode compilation occasionally.
20:19:25 <fungot> \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/
20:19:26 <myndzi> | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c |
20:19:26 <myndzi> | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c |
20:19:26 <myndzi> |\ c.c /^\ |\| | |\ c.c >\ | /< | >\ c.c /´\
20:19:26 <myndzi> /| c.c >\ >\| | /`\ c.c /`\ | |\|/`\ c.c /<
20:19:47 <fizzie> That looks rather duplicatey.
20:20:08 <mroman> Great. This will be helpful once I plan to spam this channel
20:20:11 <fizzie> The invasion of the four-legged mutants.
20:20:35 <elliott> oblig. http://neilblr.com/post/58490668107
20:21:01 <mroman> not sure what it matches there
20:21:59 <mroman> Everytime I use some of that myndzi will spam /o\
20:22:36 <mroman> I wont be useng / o\ and \ o / then anymore
20:25:53 <fizzie> The hands (\m/ \m/) can be somewhat picky w.r.t. positioning, from what I recall.
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20:26:01 <fizzie> Still with the legs, I see.
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20:27:25 <fizzie> 'test' seems to output 2**n, where n is the sum of the raw byte values of all input.
20:28:00 <fizzie> (That was with \x06 as the input, leading to 2**6 = 64 = '@'.)
20:28:40 <fizzie> Not sure what it's for. Not terribly useful on fungot in particular, since all other inputs except \x00 .. \x07 output nothing, and you can't input \x00 over IRC.
20:28:40 <fungot> fizzie: a ring of conflict is a long-drawn-out affair. fresh whole tripe calls for a woman dare not leave her baby alone in the distance, incongruent with the creation of a pine tree about a piece of v-shaped metal with a sling and a rock mole is a terrible thing to waste.
20:28:58 <fizzie> Best description of a ring of conflict, though.
20:29:25 <fizzie> Also I hope we will all agree that a rock mole is a terrible thing to waste.
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22:06:30 <lambdabot> ENVA 152150Z 10011KT CAVOK 06/M01 Q1015 RMK WIND 670FT 12011KT
22:06:44 <oerjan> supposedly will dip below zero tomorrow
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22:11:25 <lambdabot> EFHK 152150Z 04012KT 9999 FEW025 BKN030 02/M02 Q1016 NOSIG
22:11:53 <fizzie> Supposedly shouldn't this night, but the next.
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22:13:26 <Somelauw> I wrote my first fibonacci in brainfuck http://paste.eu.pn/index.php?show=1812
22:16:37 <oerjan> ^bf >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[--------------------------------------<[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<>++++++++++<[->>>+<<<]>>>[<<[<+>>+<-]>[<+>-]>-]<<[-]<[-<+>]<>,----------]<>>+<<[->><[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>>>++++++++++<<[->+>-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<<]>>[-]>>>++++++++++<[->-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<]>[-]>>[>++++++[-<++++++++>]<.<<+>+>[-]]<[<[->-<]++++++[->++++++++<]>.[-]]<<++++++[-<++++++++>]<.[-]<<[ ...
22:16:50 <oerjan> just a little too long
22:17:45 <oerjan> btw if you used that wiki-code for printing numbers, i think fungot has a better one
22:17:45 <fungot> oerjan: they say that nobody expects a unicorn horn means you've missed the bunch. turning round again with a magical herald's staff consisting of intertwined serpents, the titans, the watch was long and cold.' there was no closer to the sea; there's no food.
22:17:51 <fungot> >>,[-<+2>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<2[>+6[<+8>-]<-.[-]<]+10.
22:17:58 <Somelauw> i used wiki code for printing numbers
22:18:06 <Somelauw> but i wrote my own for parsing the input
22:18:09 <oerjan> (fungot uses run-length encoding)
22:18:09 <fungot> oerjan: they say that a polymorph trap is magic and magic armour which no sword in hand; long time the manxome foe he sought so rested he by the roadside for ninety-nine years is nearly up, so perfectly constructed that no one really subscribes to rec.games.roguelike.nethack.
22:18:14 <Somelauw> probably not the shortest one possible
22:18:23 <fungot> Somelauw: shad*: shades are undead creatures. a tree, unless it was one of a number of people who said they had encountered a sasquatch inn near the tang, becoming more pronounced towards the point.
22:18:40 <oerjan> oh they're both that way
22:18:52 <fungot> >>,[[-<+2>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<2[>+6[<+8>-]<-.[-]<]+32.[-]>>,]
22:19:06 <oerjan> fizzie: i think you forgot to save after you removed the newline
22:19:17 <fizzie> Did I remove the newline? I don't think I did that.
22:19:26 <fizzie> I just advocated using ord in place of asc.
22:19:41 <fizzie> Now that you mention it, I could just replace the latter with the former.
22:20:32 <fizzie> ^def asc bf >>,[[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>,]
22:20:43 <fungot> >2,[[-<+2>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<2[>+6[<+8>-]<-.[-]<]+32.[-]>2,]
22:20:56 <fizzie> As an extra benefit, the initial >> in ord got turned into a proper >2.
22:21:06 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
22:21:19 <fizzie> (There used to be a bug in the parser that didn't handle >>> right.)
22:21:33 <Somelauw> asc doesn't print anything for me
22:21:38 <oerjan> ^str 0 set >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[--------------------------------------<[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<>++++++++++<[->>>+<<<]>>>[<<[<+>>+<-]>[<+>-]>-]<<[-]<[-<+>]<>,----------]<>>+<<[->><[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>>>++++++++++<<[->+>-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<<]>>[-]>>>++++++++++<[->-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<]>[-]>>[>++++++[-<++++++++>]<.<<+>+>[-]]<[<[->-<]++++++[->++++++++<]>.[-]]<<++++++[-<++++++++>]
22:21:38 <fungot> Set: >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[--------------------------------------<[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<>++++++++++<[->>>+<<<]>>>[<<[<+>>+<-]>[<+>-]>-]<<[-]<[-<+>]<>,----------]<>>+<<[->><[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>>>++++++++++<<[->+>-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<<]>>[-]>>>++++++++++<[->-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<]>[-]>>[>++++++[-<++++++++>]<.<<+>+>[-]]<[<[->-<]++++++[->++++++++<]>.[-]]<<++++++[-
22:21:42 <Somelauw> but maybe the numbers have a special meaning
22:22:04 <fizzie> Somelauw: It's a simple encoding for repetition, +2 is ++ and >4 is >>>> and so on.
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22:22:28 <oerjan> ^str 0 add <.[-]<<[-<+>]<
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22:23:01 <fizzie> oerjan: You just overwrote an existing fib, thanks for that.
22:23:04 <Somelauw> hmm, i'm writing my own generator which expands 2+ into '++'
22:23:15 <oerjan> fizzie: well you can ^reload
22:23:30 <fizzie> In theory. I always feel slightly iffy about it.
22:23:36 <fizzie> Let's live dangerously.
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22:23:39 <Bicyclidine> Somelauw: maybe you should use the "standard" bfjoust encoding.
22:23:44 <fizzie> The existing one doesn't parse input, so it's less fun.
22:23:55 <fungot> >+38[-38<[->2+<2]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<>+10<[->3+<3]>3[<2[<+>2+<-]>[<+>-]>-]<2[-]<[-<+>]<>,-10]<>2+<2[->2<[->2+<2]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<2[->2+>+<3]>3[-<3+>3]<[-<+>]<3]>4+10<2[->+>-[>+>2]>[+[-<+>]>+>2]<6]>2[-]>3+10<[->-[>+>2]>[+[-<+>]>+>2]<5]>[-]>2[>+6[-<+8>]<.<2+>+>[-]]<[<[->-<]+6[->+8<]>.[-]]<2+6[-<+8>]<.[-]<2[-<+>]<
22:23:57 <fizzie> I have a feeling ^reload doesn't load the commands.
22:24:06 <oerjan> fizzie: oops that's stupid
22:24:24 -!- fungot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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22:24:41 <fungot> 0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55.89.144.233.377.610.987.1597.2584.4181.6765.10946.17711.28657.46368.75025.121393.196418.317811.514229.832040.1346269.2178309.3524578.5702887.9227465.14930352.24157817.39088169.632459 ...
22:24:54 <fizzie> In retrospect, that probably should be called "fibs", and "fib" should be an input-parsing one.
22:25:11 <fizzie> Also that should use spaces in place of newlines. And so on and so forth.
22:25:32 <oerjan> fizzie: clearly you need fungot's save to use a proper repository, like HackEgo
22:25:33 <fungot> oerjan: i was just thinking that most westerners would find that very hard to find new ways of writing things. i'd better just stick with cmuscheme.el for both
22:25:58 <fizzie> oerjan: I'm going to go with fungot's opinion on that.
22:25:59 <fungot> fizzie: are you sure? public janitors?). it's syntactic sugar over such alists ( and the built-in macro is called?" " to hang from").
22:26:20 <fizzie> Though "to hang from" is a stupid macro name.
22:27:29 <oerjan> anyway, maybe fungot isn't the right thing for testing this new fib
22:27:30 <fungot> oerjan: that's levenshtein distance in unary.
22:27:42 <oerjan> `fetch http://paste.eu.pn/?dl=1812
22:27:45 <HackEgo> 2014-10-15 22:27:17 URL:http://paste.eu.pn/?dl=1812 [457/457] -> "index.html?dl=1812" [1]
22:27:46 <Somelauw> @bf +17 >>,[[-<+2>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<2[>+6[<+8>-]<-.[-]<]+32.[-]>>,]
22:28:19 <oerjan> Somelauw: the numbers are just used by fungot on output, they're not part of bf proper
22:28:19 <fungot> oerjan: i see, thanx :p ( i guess). the last cdr is () non-atomic?
22:29:24 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
22:29:56 <fizzie> They're not even part of fungot's own ^bf input, while they arguably should.
22:29:57 <fungot> fizzie: sarahbot later tell gnomon i gave the link early, said " lisp is the whole thing will be flattened out to 133.
22:30:13 <oerjan> `run echo <<<(echo hi)
22:30:14 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `echo <<<(echo hi)'
22:31:01 <oerjan> `run interp bf `echo '!9'; cat "index.html?dl=1812" -`
22:31:46 <oerjan> `run interp bf `echo '!3'; cat "index.html?dl=1812" -`
22:32:11 <oerjan> oh wait the paste already has the !9 in it
22:32:58 <oerjan> `run sed -i '/!9/d' "index.html?dl=1812"
22:33:17 <oerjan> `cat index.html?dl=1812
22:33:17 <HackEgo> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[--------------------------------------<[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<>++++++++++<[->>>+<<<]>>>[<<[<+>>+<-]>[<+>-]>-]<<[-]<[-<+>]<>,----------]<>>+<<[->><[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>>>++++++++++<<[->+>-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<<]>>[-]>>>++++++++++<[->-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<]>[-]
22:33:24 <oerjan> `wc index.html?dl=1812
22:33:24 <HackEgo> 2 1 455 index.html?dl=1812
22:33:35 <oerjan> `run interp bf `echo '!3'; cat "index.html?dl=1812"`
22:34:23 <oerjan> `run interp bf ',[.,]!hi'
22:34:33 <oerjan> `run interp 'bf ,[.,]!hi'
22:35:25 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow).
22:35:44 <oerjan> i thought EgoBot's !bf supported ! but maybe it didn't
22:35:49 -!- mihow has joined.
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22:37:38 <oerjan> `interp bf8 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
22:37:47 <oerjan> `interp bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
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22:38:25 <oerjan> i think it may have trouble with missing input
22:38:43 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/interp
22:39:32 <fizzie> `run echo 'DIY saves the day' | interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 <(echo ',[.,]')
22:40:14 <oerjan> istr it used not to be
22:40:16 <Somelauw> what's the diff between ord and asc, except that ord runs in a loop, there seem to be small differences between the code itself as well, like one ends on 10+ and the other on 32+
22:40:28 <FireFly> fungot: any wise words today?
22:40:29 <fungot> FireFly: thanks, and i'd expect that that second fnord one. hope i didn't forget about the whole thing
22:40:51 <fizzie> Somelauw: There are no other differences, and I just replaced asc with ord since the latter is handier.
22:40:54 <fungot> >2,[[-<+2>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<2[>+6[<+8>-]<-.[-]<]+32.[-]>2,]
22:40:57 <fungot> >>,[[-<+2>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<2[>+6[<+8>-]<-.[-]<]+32.[-]>>,]
22:41:15 <fizzie> They're the same now, modulo the >> bug.
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22:41:41 <fizzie> ^def ord bf >>,[[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>,]
22:41:47 <Somelauw> one thing which is better is that unlike the one on the wiki this one works for number >>256
22:42:41 <Somelauw> another difference with the wiki, is that this one destroys the number
22:42:44 <fizzie> Somelauw: I got it from http://mazonka.com/brainf/ I believe.
22:42:58 <fizzie> The "base expansion" code.
22:43:01 <oerjan> `run echo '9' | interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 <"index.html?dl=1812"
22:43:12 <Somelauw> not a problems, since i can copy
22:43:25 <oerjan> `run echo '9' | interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 "index.html?dl=1812"
22:44:48 <oerjan> `run echo '99' | interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 "index.html?dl=1812"
22:45:04 <oerjan> I DON'T THINK THAT WORKS FOR >>256
22:46:57 <fizzie> `run echo '99' | interps/egobf/src/egobfi64 "index.html?dl=1812"
22:47:10 <fizzie> Not optimilized for 64-bit cells, I take it?
22:47:34 <fizzie> Perhaps that was a bit too much to ask, anyhow.
22:47:51 <fizzie> `run echo '20' | interps/egobf/src/egobfi64 "index.html?dl=1812"
22:48:34 <HackEgo> [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER]
22:49:01 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
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22:49:26 <fizzie> `run unidecode $(echo '20' | interps/egobf/src/egobfi64 "index.html?dl=1812")
22:49:27 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in <module> \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode(input, err
22:49:35 <fizzie> Well, that's even worse.
22:49:40 <fizzie> Not well-formed UTF-8, presumably.
22:50:13 <oerjan> i thought irssi would default to that windows charset then
22:51:57 <Sgeo> This translation also has a Japanese transliteration. They're rendering the English as "lu li la" and the Japanese transliteration as "ru ri ra"
22:53:05 <oerjan> `run ord $(echo '20' | interps/egobf/src/egobfi64 "index.html?dl=1812")
22:53:06 <HackEgo> Malformed UTF-8 character (unexpected continuation byte 0x9d, with no preceding start byte) in ord at -e line 1, <> line 1. \ 0 52 54
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22:54:02 <Somelauw> okay, i found a way to make ord usable in my program, whenever you are at a point of printing, you need to start doing <<[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]< and then use a single loop of the ord program, because it destroys 2 inputs on the left and this compensates for that
22:54:51 <Somelauw> without the leading << actually
22:55:16 <Somelauw> it copies the value from x[n] to x[n+2]
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23:04:54 <Somelauw> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[--------------------------------------<[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<>++++++++++<[->>>+<<<]>>>[<<[<+>>+<-]>[<+>-]>-]<<[-]<[-<+>]<>,----------]<>>+<<[->><[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
23:05:34 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
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23:07:13 <Somelauw> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[--------------------------------------<[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]++++++++++<[->>>+<<<]>>>[<<[<+>>+<-]>[<+>-]>-]<<[-]<[-<+>],----------]>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>
23:08:08 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
23:08:49 <Somelauw> @bf 20+>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>
23:11:01 <Somelauw> @bf ++++++++++++++++++++>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>
23:12:09 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
23:12:47 <Somelauw> that snippet produces 6765 when running it in my own interpreter
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23:15:04 <Somelauw> @bf ++++++++++>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>
23:20:04 -!- tromp_ has joined.
23:22:14 <oerjan> `run ln -s interps/egobf/src/egobfi bin/bf
23:22:30 <oerjan> `bf <(++++++++++>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>)
23:22:30 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bf: not found
23:23:00 <Lymia> Sgeo, just be glad you haven't seen the abysmal translations yet
23:23:05 <Lymia> Trust me when I say you don't want to
23:23:31 <oerjan> `run ln -s ../interps/egobf/src/egobfi bin/bf
23:23:32 <HackEgo> ln: failed to create symbolic link `bin/bf': File exists
23:23:43 <oerjan> `run ln -s ../interps/egobf/src/egobfi bin/bf
23:23:49 <oerjan> `bf <(++++++++++>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>)
23:23:49 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bf: not found
23:24:53 <oerjan> `run ln -s ../interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 bin/bf
23:24:57 <oerjan> `bf <(++++++++++>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>)
23:24:57 <HackEgo> <(++++++++++>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>): No such file or directory
23:25:23 <oerjan> `bf <(echo '++++++++++>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>')
23:25:24 <HackEgo> <(echo '++++++++++>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>'): File name too long
23:25:32 <oerjan> `run bf <(echo '++++++++++>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>')
23:25:55 <oerjan> Somelauw: i'm afraid HackEgo agrees with lambdabot
23:26:42 <oerjan> `run interps/egobf/src/egobfi16 <(echo '++++++++++>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>')
23:26:52 <oerjan> `run interps/egobf/src/egobfi64 <(echo '++++++++++>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>')
23:27:58 <oerjan> Somelauw: anyway why is the snippet ending with a useless [-]>>
23:28:15 <Somelauw> my own interpreter leaves the state in 55 (5, array('B', [0, 34, 55, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0]))
23:30:23 <oerjan> Somelauw: what's your cell size
23:31:43 <oerjan> so egobfi8 should work, then
23:31:54 <oerjan> unless you mean 256 bits
23:32:12 <Somelauw> i tried 256 and infinite, but in both cases i got the same
23:32:51 <Somelauw> can any of them print the stack using #?
23:34:08 <oerjan> `run interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 --help
23:34:08 <HackEgo> Use: egobfi{width} [options] [file] \ Options: \ -eof {0|-|n} \ set EOF mode: 0, -1 or no-change (respectively) \ [default: 0] \ -debug \ activate the # command [default off] \ -unicode {on|off} \ set unicode mode on or off [default off] \ -wrap {on|off} \ set wrappong on or off [default on]
23:34:48 <oerjan> `run interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 -debug <(echo '++++++++++>+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>#')
23:34:48 <HackEgo> 1 0:10|1|0|0|*0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|
23:35:39 <fungot> >2,[[-<+2>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<2[>+6[<+8>-]<-.[-]<]+32.[-]>2,]
23:37:03 <Somelauw> @bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>
23:38:01 <oerjan> `run interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 --help | tail
23:38:01 <HackEgo> Use: egobfi{width} [options] [file] \ Options: \ -eof {0|-|n} \ set EOF mode: 0, -1 or no-change (respectively) \ [default: 0] \ -debug \ activate the # command [default off] \ -unicode {on|off} \ set unicode mode on or off [default off] \ -wrap {on|off} \ set wrappong on or off [default on]
23:38:03 <Somelauw> ok, i'm completely confused now. 25 is what i get as well for that one
23:39:59 <oerjan> i suppose you should check if you've really running the same snippet both places
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23:42:53 <Somelauw> `run interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 -debug <(echo ' ++++++++++ >+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>> # ')
23:42:54 <HackEgo> 0:10|*1|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|
23:44:41 <Somelauw> `run interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 -debug <(echo ' +++++ >+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>> ')
23:44:48 <Somelauw> `run interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 -debug <(echo ' +++++ >+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>># ')
23:44:49 <HackEgo> 0:5|*1|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|
23:47:14 <Somelauw> oh, i think i might see a problem
23:47:23 <Somelauw> `run interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 -debug <(echo '>>>>>>>> +++++ >+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>># ')
23:47:23 <HackEgo> 0:0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|5|*1|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|
23:47:36 <fizzie> `run rm bin/bf; echo $'#! /bin/bash\n[[ $# > 0 ]] || { echo "Run what?"; exit 1; }\nci="$*"\necho -n "${ci#*!}" | echo /hackenv/interps/egobfi/src/egobfi8 <(echo -n "${ci%%!*}")' > bin/bf; chmod +x bin/bf
23:47:44 <HackEgo> /hackenv/interps/egobfi/src/egobfi8 /dev/fd/63
23:47:50 <fizzie> I forgot my debug echo.
23:48:00 <fizzie> `run rm bin/bf; echo $'#! /bin/bash\n[[ $# > 0 ]] || { echo "Run what?"; exit 1; }\nci="$*"\necho -n "${ci#*!}" | /hackenv/interps/egobfi/src/egobfi8 <(echo -n "${ci%%!*}")' > bin/bf; chmod +x bin/bf
23:48:05 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/bf: line 4: /hackenv/interps/egobfi/src/egobfi8: No such file or directory
23:48:15 <fizzie> And I keep typoing it "egobfi" instead of "egobf".
23:48:21 <fizzie> `run rm bin/bf; echo $'#! /bin/bash\n[[ $# > 0 ]] || { echo "Run what?"; exit 1; }\nci="$*"\necho -n "${ci#*!}" | /hackenv/interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 <(echo -n "${ci%%!*}")' > bin/bf; chmod +x bin/bf
23:48:25 <fizzie> (The directory, that is.)
23:48:50 <fizzie> `bf ,[.,]!testing!this!logic!too
23:48:57 <Somelauw> @bf >>>>>>>>>> +++++ >+<<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>> # [->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+> [-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>#
23:49:00 <fizzie> Got it the right way round, I think.
23:49:37 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
23:49:42 <fizzie> (No facilities for passing extra arguments to egobfi in that script, though.)
23:51:29 <Somelauw> @bf >>>>>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++ >+<[->[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>> # [->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<++>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+> [-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[-<+>[<[-]+>->+<[<-]]]]]]]]]]>]<<[>++++++[<++++++++>-]<-.[-]<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>>#
23:57:48 -!- boily has joined.
23:58:48 <Somelauw> funny things where happening when having more << than >