< 1413676853 438039 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnociiosucafumua PRIVMSG #esoteric :h-have you looked at windows? < 1413676854 690204 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what would a well curated app store be like? isn't the basic problem that everyone thinks they can get rich form writing closed source apps that don't exist yet and selling them on appstore, but then a hundred people think the same, and so a hundred people write bad closed source apps individually and none get rich? < 1413676888 707665 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are all the malware apps the problem? < 1413676918 875057 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :malware + low quality apps (+ bad permission system) < 1413676960 701033 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if Apple had its way, and the web was brand new, they would not allow web browsers, iiuc < 1413676962 617394 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:( < 1413676991 176146 :zzo38!~zzo38@d154-5-164-186.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The official app store should be screened better so that you can check for malware and stuff. However, you should always be allowed to put your own programs without using app store at all, and I believe it more important to have the way to put files independently than to have an app store, although it is good idea to have both < 1413677028 713057 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnociiosucafumua PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously though, ms has an app store now, don't they? < 1413677041 127966 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnociiosucafumua PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it's pretty empty < 1413677058 736969 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnociiosucafumua PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can certainly go outside it, so the only thing left now is for people to write apps... < 1413677061 361170 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :drdanmaku: my understanding is that that's only for 'Metro' apps, which seems like a bit of a shame, considering Windows isn't used just for Metro < 1413677072 286387 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could be wrong < 1413677104 176909 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :drdanmaku: no idea, I think nobody buys windows programs, everyone uses cracked ones with malware instead, so nobody knows about the store or if it exists < 1413677109 182169 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnociiosucafumua PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem to have distanced themselves from the Metro stuff in Windows 10, so maybe that'll change < 1413677133 603925 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't they just renamed it? < 1413677134 155153 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnociiosucafumua PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah, that sounds about right < 1413677177 1511 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnociiosucafumua PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well, they brought the normal desktop with the start menu back is what i mean. the apps are in normal windows instead of giant if you have a keyboard < 1413677207 822414 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnociiosucafumua PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know the specifics of how "metro" worked since i didn't use windows 8 at all < 1413677240 754692 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :drdanmaku: uh, but that's just the UI part. aren't metro style apps also about a saner permission system that doesn't allow all the kludges to support old programs that write their data directly to a hardcoded "C:\foo", to encourage better programming style? < 1413677310 446601 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that was the primary end-user noticable thing about Metro, rather than the UI, I would gladly use Metro apps < 1413677348 292107 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: as an end user, sure, but developers might not want to write them < 1413677359 323595 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they especially might not want to port all their existing programs to it < 1413677370 726324 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnociiosucafumua PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: maybe the problem with the app stores is that, if you're a big company putting lots of effort in to maintaining a store, why would you want to let people just go around it? < 1413677428 348955 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you could still look 'user-friendly' to people by maintaining it. I guess though a lot of developers might not bother putting their apps in if they can just tell users 'go around it' < 1413677438 530141 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's a difficult approval process < 1413677465 164413 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnociiosucafumua PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, hard to approve + workaround doesn't seem like a stable setup < 1413677574 729701 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible at all to make the app store more user friendly than the web in general if the content is 100 different 50 cent apps for letting you switch the built-in led of your phone as a flashlight while showing ads on the screen and uploading all your personal data? < 1413677633 790257 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like the Android app store, I don't know if the iOS app store is similar at all < 1413677644 545061 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess there's also 100 apps that don't even bother to let you switch the led, they only put the flashlight thing in the name and icon and description so you download them. < 1413677660 335994 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's got to be. the motivation of the developers is the same < 1413677681 900066 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well, maybe there's somewhat fewer apps on the ios store because more people try to develop for android? < 1413677684 900018 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno really < 1413677740 495773 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how smartphones work these days < 1413677780 661462 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it could depend a lot on how much the company policies and restricts what apps are allowed on the app store < 1413677797 893795 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but they can't always make the developers keep those policies < 1413677806 883356 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely they don't allow malware either < 1413677831 102855 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iOS has a review process, to my understanding < 1413678755 964593 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat106.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1413681287 350432 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre NICK :cholera-virus < 1413682050 316813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the android app store is much more open than the ios one < 1413682078 459510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple exercise a lot of quality control (ymmv though -- there's still a ton of shitty flashlight apps but I don't think there's quite so much crap and outright lies compared to android) < 1413682454 546400 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1413682503 615015 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iOS has a settings app rather than having the various apps put settings in undiscoverable menus, right? < 1413682523 716909 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I think Google's trying to get rid of menus, but ... Samsung still likes them I think :/ < 1413682914 573771 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Settings is akin to Windows Control Panel, hmm < 1413683077 439435 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see < 1413683352 703174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this euclidean norm thing isn't making my haskell look any good < 1413683374 61295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably why no one else has tried. < 1413683406 698490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial in haskell _except_ for getting the output format exactly right. < 1413683420 504441 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then post a variant with saner output format < 1413683428 827514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i note fizzie complained about that in other places) < 1413683472 911309 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well i'm not sure there's _any_ format that wouldn't be awkward for some language. < 1413683514 173904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :even using a fixed number of decimals would only cut some of the cruft. < 1413683538 435658 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reconsider visual indicators of physicality and realism. Bezels, gradients, and drop shadows sometimes lead to heavier UI elements that can overpower or compete with the content. Instead, focus on the content and let the UI play a supporting role." < 1413683544 385845 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't this a recent change of heart by Apple? < 1413683687 600642 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: TRANSNISTRIAN CHICKEN < 1413684426 447219 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i like menus too < 1413684458 847899 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also, android has settings app like that < 1413684474 281511 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Google's against them, and I kind of have to agree that if you don't have a menu indicator, having to guess whether or not there are menus is a bad thing < 1413684493 932029 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: for its own settings, or can third-party apps extend it? < 1413684949 491220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not so much a change of heart so much as people getting usurped < 1413684980 359073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiui, jobs and forstall loved skeumorphism; ive hates it < 1413685081 56914 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fits. < 1413685092 30263 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jobs does seem to have always adored skeumorphism. < 1413685206 76876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like how obsessed with flat/borderless mush Ive seems to be from a usability perspective, but I am glad iCal no longer looks like http://cdn.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/ical-big.png. < 1413685382 305946 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's no chance of iOS and OSX supporting custom theming? < 1413685435 432476 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I remember years ago seeing someone on iOS use an app, and some kind of number selector that looked like a wheel. Is that UI element still similar? < 1413685445 560693 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, one of those toy encryption thingies < 1413685529 883465 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://timroadley.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/RolePicker.jpg < 1413685533 820900 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks very skeumorphic < 1413685572 323415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pre-iOS 7. < 1413685600 756829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iOS 7 was when Forstall got ousted and Ive got to put his grubby^Wspotless, pristinely crafted hands all over things. < 1413685691 423923 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that control look like in iOS 7? < 1413685804 156370 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, the answer is 'boring' < 1413685837 798016 :cholera-virus!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre NICK :nisstyre < 1413686026 424329 :zzo38!~zzo38@d154-5-164-186.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried compressing Zork I by using gzip and the result isn't very good. Do you know what can be better way? < 1413686049 507237 :Xnuk!~Xnuk@110.70.56.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413686094 338217 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invent algorithm intended to compress games in that format? < 1413686102 111098 :Xnuk!~Xnuk@110.70.56.231 PART :#esoteric < 1413687204 1115 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :solution: Microsoft Bob (also solution to everything) < 1413687348 521995 :zzo38!~zzo38@d154-5-164-186.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that DEFLATE expects 8-bit data, and Z-machine packed text contains 5-bit characters, so maybe this has something to do with it? However, the compression software cannot always guess correctly whether it is text or other data, and has to work regardless of such thing. < 1413687390 822565 :zzo38!~zzo38@d154-5-164-186.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is also not always predictable the alignment of the data) < 1413687433 897244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Bob was there, too < 1413687659 995229 :zzo38!~zzo38@d154-5-164-186.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also try to think of, how I can use shift-reduce parsing in text-adventure game. < 1413687874 80146 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1413688497 929264 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413688790 936779 :zzo38!~zzo38@d154-5-164-186.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know much about shift-reduce parser? < 1413689470 28243 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fyzvgdwacdraenfr QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1413690254 443090 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macbuntu does't seem to be booting < 1413691145 818139 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413691436 434853 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: sleep < 1413691698 39196 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't Ubuntu think my VirtualBox VM is x64? < 1413691715 18203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it isn't or you booted a 32-bit operating system < 1413691731 603265 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDream < 1413691749 607932 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean as host? Because guest failed due to seeing i686 instead of x86-64 it was expecting < 1413691826 104994 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remaking VM and selecting Ubuntu (64-bit) seems to work < 1413691860 431807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the vm was 32-bit. < 1413691884 113366 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a setting in the VM settings for that though < 1413691894 525840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look harder :p < 1413691920 239779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it is in the processor tab < 1413691931 335073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it has to be set at vm creation time < 1413692089 952163 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu seems to be a bit Mac like with the menu and the launcher... exept launcher icons are too big and it's on the left, pretty sure latter can be changed at least. What was ais saying the difference between Mac doc and the other thing was? < 1413692217 50730 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is installing Guest Additions in a LiveCD VM likely to confuse VirtualBox when the VM is shut down and guest additions aren't present anymore? < 1413692321 501894 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, VirtualBox Guest Additions need a restart, don't they :/ < 1413692377 171505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't move it from the left unless they compromised on that < 1413692379 911643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can move the dock to the left. < 1413692384 530267 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rrdndznnqnwlexjz JOIN :#esoteric < 1413692418 100187 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he was talking about something relating to folders though < 1413692519 802817 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't pretty much /every other Linux distro/ come with virtual machine stuff in the kernel already? < 1413692524 538984 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... something? < 1413692536 170974 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, most of them have no problem quickly going fullscreen, which is all I really want < 1413693127 273913 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION starts reading Thinking Forth
< 1413694762 397347 :MoALTz__!~no@user-188-33-15-107.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1413694946 105448 :MoALTz_!~no@user-188-33-15-107.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1413700265 630746 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413700517 700607 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1413700623 663898 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413701067 637955 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1413702346 258655 :zzo38!~zzo38@d154-5-164-186.bchsia.telus.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1413703849 753129 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn LLVM < 1413704022 37491 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://safecode.cs.illinois.edu/ why isn't this used for all C and C++ code? < 1413705813 776046 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re skeuomorphism, http://interfacehallofshame.eu/www.iarchitect.com/realcd.htm and most of the other in-depth reviews on the same site. < 1413705842 40267 :Hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1413706300 114451 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably http://interfacehallofshame.eu/www.iarchitect.com/phone.htm even more so. < 1413706387 408095 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slist 10/19 < 1413706387 963919 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :slist 10/19: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot < 1413706408 998844 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/slist < 1413706409 519592 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ Taneb \ atriq \ Ngevd \ Fiora \ Sgeo \ ThatOtherPerson \ alot < 1413706418 897857 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHat was that thing about it deleting itself? < 1413706466 994161 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think oerjan removed that feature. < 1413706475 202501 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/8470be3ffda0 < 1413706499 310715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :slist is back? < 1413706515 681113 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's all written out but it's updating a bit at a time? < 1413706525 337792 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1413706567 781111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a fancy bash variable thing. < 1413706630 577556 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: not all written out, apparently < 1413706919 36491 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jnociiosucafumua QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1413708585 241203 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1413712293 495272 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1413713585 270070 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF9320F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1413715372 455031 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan Oops, your hello hello world solution is much closer to my "local optimum" than I expected; apparently I had to rewrite the program in order to realize that the shared "world" string could be picked up from the final result list (having only one list helped). I had only tried a:b=["world","hello",a++"!"], resulting in 86 characters. Funny. < 1413715372 608372 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1413715710 110462 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There may be an advantage to run-time metaprogramming compared to eariler-than-runtime-metaprogramming... it may be easier for other languages to call into that language without inadvertantly being forced not to use your metaprogramming constructs < 1413715739 813024 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking of Factor's bindings into Python, where it can call things like getattr and setattr < 1413717059 652365 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF9320F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1413720144 661513 :MoALTz__!~no@user-188-33-15-107.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1413720184 301073 :MoALTz!~no@188.33.15.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413721089 632989 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1413722477 560484 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1413722857 260989 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413724315 501503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi boily < 1413724411 103270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We like controlling the startup of the system with shell scripts that are readable" I wish prominent systemd criticism didn't almost always leave the distinct impression that the author has never actually seen or used sysvinit. < 1413724627 697411 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloiott < 1413724647 827161 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: SYN SYN ENQ? < 1413724741 399217 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I firmly believe systemd is a huge step in the right direction. < 1413724778 520548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether or not systemd is the answer, sysvinit certainly isn't < 1413726197 73440 :MDream!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1413729495 747268 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we see systemd being very prone to mission creep and bloat" is closer to my personal worries < 1413729677 885166 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's a bit too much policy baked into systemd already; a while ago I was looking for a hook for the action taken on closing the lid of a laptop, and there doesn't appear to be one, just a few options for tweaking the builtin policy of whether to suspend or not) < 1413730226 820464 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, systemd is a better approximation of what I want than sysvinit. (Every serious distribution had its own infrastructure of init helper scripts for managing dependencies, and that functionality is better off in init itself. To me that would seem to be a good place to stop, but the systemd folks have bigger plans.) < 1413730279 326144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. I think there is space for reasonable systemd criticism < 1413730344 19248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, all the /prominent/ criticism seems to amount to pure conservatism / very vague philosophical objections / accusing everyone in sight of corruption / outright personal nastiness < 1413730388 174473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what do you expect from someone threatening to create a fork named "Pure Debian by Veteran Unix Admins" < 1413730460 806059 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is such a thing as PDVUA? bletch. < 1413732292 380404 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/stateless.html < 1413732343 35570 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so init modifies /etc/passwd /etc/shadow and /etc/groups, how quaint. < 1413732393 25447 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :[where init=systemd] < 1413732576 127099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbf, "some component systemd does X" is very far away from "pid 1 does X" < 1413732613 536062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of systemd < 1413732656 97978 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So has anybody forked systemd yet? < 1413732684 392909 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really dislike how it is used as a vehicle for pushing visions like this one, http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html < 1413732720 930092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but not the kind of people you'd want to associate with :p < 1413732739 349370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which I mean: yes, 4chan has, the worse parts of 4chan even < 1413732754 961037 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :o-kay. < 1413732989 461032 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/a/ wrote a systemd fork? < 1413732998 368891 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: a useless fork of systemd http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ < 1413733076 774885 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :this debian fork website is cute < 1413733078 179811 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Debian leaders can go on evaluating more init systems, just not impose one that ignores the needs of most of its users." < 1413733091 384593 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think these guys actually know anything about the debian userbase < 1413733668 322684 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: interesting, thanks < 1413734465 470097 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1413735068 811416 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck bitwidth conversions14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40628&oldid=40259 5* 03Rdebath 5* (+854) 10Rambling about I/O < 1413735123 632562 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.244 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413735934 78286 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: INCRIMINATING CHICKEN < 1413736556 222234 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1413736681 512915 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1413736722 514816 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it annoys em when people use "called as" to mean "called". "called as" should be reserved for describing API calls < 1413737464 896586 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION called as his mom's cell phone.
< 1413737509 645235 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: that's a serious identity crisis you're having there < 1413737577 939365 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dials up MDude
< 1413737595 17128 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish there was an easier way to reach that guy < 1413737689 878291 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here's one i saw: "Electrodes used in neuroscience are called as multielectrode array..." < 1413737776 81649 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the author's native language? < 1413737830 789796 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's just ungrammatical < 1413737867 88442 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is english < 1413737902 6352 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also kind of nonsensical, sometimes you do use an electrode by itself < 1413738702 83692 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or call an electrode as itself < 1413738865 777155 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's what you mean by pointers? < 1413738897 878424 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are we discussing dogs now? < 1413738936 27492 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1413738966 112241 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_%28dog_breed%29 < 1413738966 288749 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Page fetching < 1413738975 626259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1413739269 321696 :zzo38!~zzo38@d50-92-137-100.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413739793 675775 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going on a quest to get decent food on a Sunday evening < 1413739796 511874 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wish me luck < 1413740013 635424 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could make pasta! < 1413740042 175036 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck making pasta < 1413740162 794124 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413740239 620623 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.244 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1413740262 788100 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413740263 655981 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413740263 883935 :applybot!~applybot@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :*.net *.split < 1413740294 267181 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413740365 643843 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1413742456 918040 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1413742576 139235 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there's selectwords :) < 1413742580 382954 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wdjsiwD < 1413742580 558820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1413742637 695162 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: you're gonna have to teach me how to use GO and GZ later... (if you feel like it) < 1413742665 762698 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1413742679 468800 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO is ro{}m[ < 1413742680 441276 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1413742687 123446 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 10ro{?i}m[ < 1413742687 578201 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! < 1413742692 269517 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 10ro{?i}m[ < 1413742692 437577 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11} < 1413742698 337847 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 10{?i}GO < 1413742698 505706 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11} < 1413742734 390981 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to map over a range from zero or one you can use GO/GZ < 1413742744 596970 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example all squares from 0..9 < 1413742755 759628 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 9{J.*}GZ < 1413742755 929636 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81} < 1413742760 26517 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the same thing as < 1413742764 596368 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 9ro{J.*}m[ < 1413742764 766901 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81} < 1413742789 712832 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's good. < 1413742814 543141 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also B! automatically maps over lists < 1413742820 790328 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 99rz3B! < 1413742820 990382 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"0" "1" "2" "10" "11" "12" "20" "21" "22" "100" "101" "102" "110" "111" "112" " < 1413742827 415903 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see some of your best answer use it. < 1413742829 141123 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't need m[ for that. < 1413742856 373728 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's normally base right? < 1413742864 464458 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :B! is base, yes < 1413742875 392556 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like ?i for example, it auto-detects lists < 1413742878 320649 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3}? < 1413742878 487912 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: (line 1, column 9): < 1413742879 644999 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3}?i < 1413742879 810568 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {2 3 4} < 1413742886 533937 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah this would work for hello hello world < 1413742890 677682 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1413742890 890079 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think. < 1413742903 4440 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :99rz{3B!}m[ is the same thing as 99rz3B! < 1413742906 898167 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't looked at those post mortems yet. < 1413742916 692305 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my 44b was pathetic, lol. < 1413742966 217182 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language ref mentions deepzip2 for ConvertBase (B!) < 1413742992 256604 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i never got into deepzip... can you give me the cliff notes? < 1413743007 695356 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure i've used it, but maybe with not much understanding. < 1413743011 435675 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the lref mentions either deepmap, deepzip or deepzip2 it means that the command auto-detects lists and acts accordingly < 1413743043 218496 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan_: deepmap means, that a Command that takes no arguments will map itself over a list if it's given a list < 1413743052 403766 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a command that takes one arguments < 1413743071 156870 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cos for example < 1413743075 332404 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 4Tc < 1413743075 498623 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : -0.6536436208636119 < 1413743080 703784 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3}Tc < 1413743080 872619 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {0.5403023058681398 -0.4161468365471424 -0.9899924966004454} < 1413743085 577250 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3}{Tc}m[ < 1413743085 743825 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {0.5403023058681398 -0.4161468365471424 -0.9899924966004454} < 1413743102 565445 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- Tc detects that you provided a list instead of a Number and will automatically call map (m[) for you < 1413743111 443709 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :this behaviour is called deepmap < 1413743159 504114 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {10 11 12}{3 4 5}.% < 1413743159 671247 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {1 3 2} < 1413743182 369730 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :.% has deepzip behaviour. That means it detects if you provide two lists and will call zipWith for you < 1413743188 238698 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {10 11 12}{3 4 5}{.%}Z] < 1413743188 443684 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {1 3 2} < 1413743203 116337 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- .% automatically calls Z] for you < 1413743218 252316 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1413743227 176183 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}{5 6}|| < 1413743227 339156 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {5 6} < 1413743231 609191 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}{5}|| < 1413743231 820548 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {5} < 1413743235 359442 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}5|| < 1413743235 527103 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {5 7 7 5} < 1413743245 794823 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or (||) has deepzip2 behaviour < 1413743264 887538 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :deepzip2 behaviour means, that the command will detect if you provided it a list and will boxcycle the non-list argument < 1413743270 207075 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1413743284 146640 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}5bxcy{||}Z] < 1413743284 311951 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {5 7 7 5} < 1413743290 555986 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- this is deepzip2 < 1413743299 485132 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :|| does the bxcy{}Z] automatically < 1413743313 600987 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}3B! < 1413743313 782047 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"1" "2" "10" "11"} < 1413743316 868483 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is actually < 1413743323 604252 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}3bxcy{B!}Z] < 1413743323 784221 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {"1" "2" "10" "11"} < 1413743378 723963 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}m[ is deepmap, {}Z] is deepzip and bxcy{}Z[ is deepzip < 1413743386 47611 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bxcy{}Z] is deepzip2 < 1413743430 865449 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand: You just need to know that if there's a deep* mentioned for a command, that command will work magically with lists too :) < 1413743458 122985 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps for example mentiones deepmap < 1413743459 723934 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means < 1413743465 95997 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"5 5.+" "6"}ps < 1413743465 309629 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{5 5 .+} {6}} < 1413743475 624201 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic. I like magic < 1413743486 461023 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :will magically work :) < 1413743515 323671 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {" 5 5.+" "6"}{ps}m[p^ < 1413743515 493029 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {} < 1413743523 737266 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"5 5.+" "6"}{ps}m[p^ < 1413743523 904356 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {5 5 .+} < 1413743536 147896 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :this can be shortenend too < 1413743542 962456 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"5 5.+" "6"}pe < 1413743543 130243 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {6} < 1413743553 871792 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*m[^p < 1413743572 69980 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan_: The terminology is < 1413743583 996220 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :applying a function to every element to a list is called a "map" < 1413743610 549832 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking elements from two listts and apply a function to them is called "zipwith" < 1413743624 521468 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3}{4 5 6}{.+}Z] < 1413743624 689343 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {5 7 9} < 1413743631 568332 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really should know that, but it never solidifies in my brain. maybe this time. < 1413743642 829301 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- that's a zip. It's {(1 + 4) (2 + 5) (3 + 5)} < 1413743662 545790 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good stuff. < 1413743677 296566 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a list and one non-list < 1413743680 692923 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. {1 2 3 4}5 < 1413743686 964444 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use zipWith because 5 isn't a list < 1413743690 237429 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something that zip zips? < 1413743697 601191 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}5{.+}Z] < 1413743697 820538 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Burlesque: (m[) Invalid arguments! < 1413743700 773603 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- wont work < 1413743701 394276 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or map zips, or stuff like that? < 1413743709 267670 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1413743710 291343 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can convert the 5 into an inifinet list of 5s < 1413743718 633027 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}5bxcy{.+}Z] < 1413743718 806025 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {6 7 8 9} < 1413743719 830091 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1413743741 813070 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :?+ does this automatically for you < 1413743741 982971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: v @ ? . < 1413743746 813152 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}5?+ < 1413743747 199061 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {6 7 8 9} < 1413743758 56876 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :map zips? < 1413743763 729152 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipWith is actually zip + map < 1413743769 202247 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3}{4 5 6}z[ < 1413743769 373495 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{1 4} {2 5} {3 6}} < 1413743777 108247 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1413743777 575911 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3}{4 5 6}z[{p^.+}m[ < 1413743777 748609 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {5 7 9} < 1413743787 35427 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- that's what zipWithPush does < 1413743803 613601 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipWith is zip followed by a map < 1413743824 738942 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src zipWith < 1413743824 909357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipWith f (a:as) (b:bs) = f a b : zipWith f as bs < 1413743824 909535 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipWith _ _ _ = [] < 1413743835 448832 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know Haskell? < 1413743862 656069 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the lref says Z[ "Defined as z[\/m[" < 1413743884 309191 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3}{4 5 6}z[U[ < 1413743884 480240 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {4 10 18} < 1413743896 381498 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1413743903 706462 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1413743912 701543 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3}{4 5 6}z[u[ < 1413743912 874191 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {4 5 6} < 1413743915 308974 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1413743916 833599 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :u[ is unzip < 1413743925 588544 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just reverse what a zip does < 1413743934 997075 :not^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413743962 245118 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope I made some things clear :) < 1413743982 679065 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not.. just ask :) < 1413743987 496000 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot clearer. i'm sure i'll have some questions later. < 1413743990 76606 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! < 1413744054 650558 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :my solution is based no si for hello hello world < 1413744067 771643 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}{0 0 1 1 2 2}si < 1413744067 945528 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {1 1 2 2 3 3} < 1413744083 769149 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :si takes a list and a list of indices < 1413744097 849961 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will pick the elements out from the first list < 1413744130 12878 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :sw is selectwords which is si but it works on words < 1413744142 25807 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "hi there you cat"{0 2 1 3}sw < 1413744142 196844 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "hi you there cat" < 1413744192 894486 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*based on si < 1413744322 742895 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to go. i'll bbl. thanks again. < 1413744607 798393 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.83.198 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1413744957 622921 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1413744960 751079 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im approaching 130WPM < 1413744993 820452 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is actually very impressing < 1413745005 890213 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 12 charecters per second. < 1413745011 704139 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :characters < 1413745151 456083 :not^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1413746631 944682 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat dontaskdonttelllist < 1413746632 474168 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: dontaskdonttelllist: No such file or directory < 1413746646 47480 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat donttelldonktasklist < 1413746646 581562 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: donttelldonktasklist: No such file or directory < 1413746649 158300 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1413746650 321116 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1413746652 131003 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​:-( \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ etc \ factor \ head \ hej \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test.c \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf < 1413746657 287802 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin/ < 1413746658 17285 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ ! \ ? \ ¿ \ @ \ ؟ \ ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ \  \  \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addwep \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ as86 \ aseen \ bf \ bienvenido \ botsnack \ bseen \ buttsnack \ calc \ CaT \ catcat \ cats \ cc \ cdecl \ c++decl \ chroot \ coins \ CoInS \ complain \ complaints \ danddreclist \ define \ delquo < 1413746665 476592 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls bin/ | grep ask < 1413746666 207460 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dontaskdonttelllist < 1413746682 327872 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/dontaskdonttelllist < 1413746682 869804 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | sed 's/./&​/g' | xargs; exit \ quintopia \ coppro \ myname \ mroman(use query) < 1413746702 51173 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: :( < 1413746708 124418 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :highlight? < 1413746712 263732 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`dontaskdonttelllist < 1413746712 830600 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1413746712 985252 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dontaskdonttelllist: q​u​i​n​t​o​p​i​a​ c​o​p​p​r​o​ m​y​n​a​m​e​ m​r​o​m​a​n​(​u​s​e​ ​q​u​e​r​y​)​ < 1413746755 685383 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask ais532 can you do a "programming languages with no Hello world" list? < 1413746755 848250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1413746780 155006 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask ais523 can you do a "programming languages with no Hello world" list? < 1413746780 312235 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1413747073 862613 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mcnofidurlgvnpjp JOIN :#esoteric < 1413747566 333648 :zzo38!~zzo38@d50-92-137-100.bchsia.telus.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1413748678 62094 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My new motto is 'minimize different' < 1413748761 311101 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turns out vlc does not work over ssh X forwarding. Shouldn't have been surprising really < 1413748810 339335 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might work better via xpra. < 1413748820 902440 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that < 1413748842 250279 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1413748924 239602 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, interesting, without -X to ssh I get ASCII art < 1413748933 98342 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also pulse is fucking up badly on this laptop < 1413748940 517359 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :xpra is a fairly spiffy X forwarding thing. Basically it runs your app in Xvfb and acts as a compositing window manager to get the rendering of it. And then it encodes to h.264 before streaming over the network. < 1413748943 282667 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I disable pulse on Ubuntu... < 1413748952 88194 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get jack or something instead... < 1413748962 485822 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ugh < 1413748968 886544 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically it replaces X remoting with a much better protocol. < 1413748970 575598 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so the quality will not be as good < 1413749000 604455 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but what do you *want* from a generic network display rendering schema? < 1413749006 679602 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1413749017 320951 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Low-latency video encoding is pretty much the only viable solution. < 1413749017 769088 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is why X forwarding is nicer < 1413749029 918054 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :vlc could just forward the video data as is < 1413749035 72700 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :without re-encoding it < 1413749059 429912 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :X forwarding *would be* nicer if a) Xlib didn't suck as bad b) users of X used its primitive operations instead of basically using it as a stupidly inefficient framebuffer renderer. < 1413749064 600006 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1413749094 429865 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that using X forwarding for a video display program would be shoving the *decoded* video over the network. < 1413749107 333117 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now how to solve: [0x7f8790000b78] main input error: ES_OUT_SET_(GROUP_)PCR is called too late (pts_delay increased to 300 ms) < 1413749107 489507 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0x7f8790000b78] main input error: ES_OUT_RESET_PCR called < 1413749109 952234 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, unless you're on quite an awesome link, Isn't Going To Work. < 1413749118 308477 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which happens with locally playing the files < 1413749123 704140 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, this is lan < 1413749158 660790 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a 10 gigabit lan? < 1413749174 413477 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Nope, it is 1 gbit ethernet < 1413749202 264026 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, however, what I'm saying, since I'm playing a mp4 anyway, it can just forward that compressed data < 1413749214 413273 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And let it be decoded by the local GPU on the target system < 1413749217 966987 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it *can't*! < 1413749222 689264 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :X doesn't work that way. < 1413749230 774189 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since if played locally vlc it would be decoded using the GPU < 1413749233 945719 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no but it should < 1413749256 778353 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1413749256 932097 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1413749333 480644 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In *theory* you can just barely do 1080p30 on that link, but you will literally be using all the capacity. < 1413749351 964793 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's assuming that you're doing nothing more than shoving the raw video on Ethernet frames... < 1413749356 221293 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which you're not. :) < 1413749371 393262 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well the video is 480p < 1413749378 366419 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now I scped it to local < 1413749387 787465 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it is 30 fps < 1413749403 252824 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, then if you're *not scaling* then it'll maybe hypothetically work over X on that LAN. < 1413749440 243667 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used mplayer -vo x11 over SSH-forwarded X. < 1413749446 809680 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :More of a slideshow than a video feed, though. < 1413749469 865825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: xpra supports multiple encodings, not just h.264 < 1413749473 661199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including lossless ones < 1413749487 145565 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. It can stream PNG over the network too, can't it? < 1413749502 98501 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1413749509 695789 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think h.264 is the default though. < 1413749510 750565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus simpler RLE type stuff < 1413749518 952042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can even do vp8 if you want to for some reason < 1413749519 209919 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what, sshfs is easier at this point < 1413749520 51893 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works quite well for me. < 1413749541 818153 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riiight, yeah! I remember having it built wrong and it didn't have h.264 but did have vp8 at one point. < 1413749553 61577 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :VP8 is *not* a low latency codec. :) < 1413749640 602046 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1413749663 757466 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 2fps for "mplayer -vo x11" of a 574p video from the work-workstation to home over two SSH's (can't connect to workstations directly) and a 10M VDSL2 link. < 1413749687 531830 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall this working better when I was living in the university student apartments, which network-topologically speaking were quite a lot closer. < 1413749743 761608 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1413749762 428981 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about between devices on your lan? < 1413749839 51321 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I have any convenient devices to test with, without booting up the laptop. < 1413749864 247389 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The headless boxes don't seem to have mplayer installed. < 1413749888 394449 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1413749896 548206 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sensible < 1413749931 189414 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is funny that playing this over sshfs works just fine < 1413749957 766215 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how does one do software mixing with pure alsa now again? PA clearly isn't working out for me < 1413749969 440992 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It just works". < 1413749982 174126 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah. sshfs is a bit hackish, but you've got a lot of things going for you. Like "streaming encoded video instead of decoded". < 1413750004 610633 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's supposed to just work, but I seem to have ended up with an .asoundrc like http://sprunge.us/CMaK for some reason. < 1413750017 761568 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I was like "I don't want to have to set up fucking nfs on this laptop, even though that desktop with the files has it" < 1413750030 52287 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1413750033 662787 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :May NFS be fucked. < 1413750033 978121 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've completely forgotten what *didn't* work that made me fiddle with that. < 1413750037 918262 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well I tried to just set the real sound output in vlc settings, (alsa), didn't work out < 1413750047 734336 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, nfs is great, much lower overhead than cifs < 1413750065 850593 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, makes a massive difference when streaming 1080p videos from the RPi < 1413750087 154284 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, i.e. it works over nfs3, but not cifs. Haven't tried nfs4 < 1413750115 92449 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my scripts had stopped working due to some NFS-related file locking thing; I had kind of assumed they'd ironed out those kinks. < 1413750149 822098 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's some sort of "enterprise" storage system behind it. < 1413750187 728335 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It did an exclusive lock on a file to make sure only one copy of a thing was running at a time, and some change or another made it never able to lock the file.) < 1413750241 755305 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advisory locks? < 1413750261 482390 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I think. < 1413750264 601104 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1413750277 757438 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue how it works really < 1413750294 400456 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it just does a pgrep on the command, which is such a hack, but works fine in practice. < 1413750326 210426 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1413750338 72818 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not a local lock file? < 1413750341 441783 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :why an nfs one < 1413750389 477382 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, pgrep will have race conditions < 1413750423 331492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, it was in the "home directory" of the tool. It could lock some /tmp file in theory, I guess. I doubt I have any access to anything else local on that system. < 1413750448 754873 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay firefox on this laptop is WEIRD. If I log into google, google mail and google search result gets into a instant reload-cycle < 1413750455 397175 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works fine if I'm not logged in < 1413750460 866009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's curious. There's the same path mounted over NFS3 and NFS4 at two different mount points. < 1413750467 150176 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume they've been fiddling with the setup. < 1413750472 356493 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1413750484 891057 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the reason why it stopped working out of the blue, too. < 1413750608 615923 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm what init daemon does Android use? < 1413750617 31762 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not systemd I assume < 1413750645 17805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something custom, I believe. < 1413750655 965502 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1413750708 778424 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But closer to a sysv style "rc scripts" than a full-blown "does everything" thing like systemd. < 1413750715 393835 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, these days it seems that the only option to avoid systemd in the future will be gentoo pretty much, with openrc. Debian is going to switch in next release. So is Ubuntu at some point < 1413750718 843296 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "system server" too, though. < 1413750734 453702 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian is having a debate about it again around this time. < 1413750735 408785 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and it definitely doesn't use PA, but instead something that works < 1413750744 756693 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh really? That is good < 1413750775 746753 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I don't want an init daemon that does more than just handle processes. Having init crash is the worst possible thing that could happen really. < 1413750793 840276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't follow the details, but AIUI someone insisted on a General Resolution, which means all developers could theoretically comment on it. < 1413750803 190624 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch, there are already CVEs for systemd < 1413750803 874087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the debate is kind of ridiculous < 1413750818 319962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like 2-3 weeks before feature freeze and it's explicitly designed to ensure gnome gets removed from jessie < 1413750830 760777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... basically just spiteful legislative trolling? < 1413750831 346895 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right < 1413750839 380205 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they are going into feature freeze soon < 1413750843 336521 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1413750867 673303 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, it was a Technical Committee decision the last time. Though I follow Debian politics really poorly. < 1413750880 347993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've actually heard of systemd-the-pid-1 crashing on anyone. < 1413750885 128707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those CVEs actually for pid 1? < 1413750910 622184 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's Ubuntu doing these days, still Upstart or moving to systemd following Debian or what? < 1413750917 805383 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm that is a good question, my firefox just crashed (good thing that isn't integrated into upstart which this laptop uses!) < 1413750923 199304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: planning to move to systemd < 1413750939 958053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm typing this on a systemd Debian server, FWIW. < 1413750944 666177 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/server/system/ < 1413750958 687516 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, could one use daemontools for pid 1? < 1413750967 480885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really I would not write systemd and I don't like a lot of its decisions but there honestly is an awful lot of FUD and nastiness surrounding it. < 1413750972 236849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: only with hacks < 1413750972 727124 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like the optimal solution after initramfs finished < 1413750974 125856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :use runit if you want that < 1413750976 16076 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww < 1413750982 839444 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1413750984 795183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that's what it's designed to be < 1413751000 635400 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, KISS daemon supervision basically < 1413751003 303597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/chneukirchen/ignite < 1413751047 790745 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not on arch any more, but thanks all the same < 1413751049 88673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoiler, though: probably the only thing you'll personally experience by zealously avoiding systemd is just more fuss for yourself. I'm not saying that's a defence of anything but it is really not a burden to use systemd in practice and you can probably toggle off whatever you don't like about it. < 1413751062 520836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just saying there are alternatives that are not gentoo < 1413751079 63255 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that is good at least < 1413751099 97170 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last I looked at systemd it didn't support remote syslog (since it swallows syslog) < 1413751101 338422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alpine linux uses musl/busybox/openrc < 1413751114 50218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I doubt that. it has always been able to forward syslog right on to an actual syslog daemon. < 1413751124 851879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if you were running rsyslogd before, you could always tell systemd to just forward it on to that. < 1413751140 612226 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right okay, so to local rsyslogd, then to remote rsyslogd < 1413751164 794620 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alpine uses musl, which is a problem for me, since I use some binary programs where I don't have the source, and that use glibc < 1413751171 198957 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel Compiler for example < 1413751185 175522 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also last I looked musl had some locale issues iirc < 1413751223 344079 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20141019-boot.svg so much stuff in a system, though < 1413751267 479475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can just install glibc too? < 1413751276 889038 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? Okay < 1413751280 963011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, why not? < 1413751286 264570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the executables could statically link glibc... < 1413751312 254030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if it dynamically links to like big huge libraries that you only have built with musl and there's ABI problems then maybe (but musl is ABI-compatible with glibc to some degree) < 1413751318 634941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of an awful way to distribute binaries though :p < 1413751324 270585 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The feeling I've gotten from Android is not that the systems are any sort of bastion of cleanliness and good design, when it comes to the Linux parts underneath. < 1413751352 97128 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well right < 1413751354 793627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, bionic seems to be about half of a libc. < 1413751390 473106 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes Android has issues definitely < 1413751450 658494 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413751460 868373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I think runit type systems are a bit underwhelming, there are some nice things in systemd that I would miss in them; they are certainly way better than sysvinit though < 1413751469 424981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly run launchd on linux! < 1413751487 161980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :launchd is probably pretty much to "blame" for systemd anyway since systemd started as basically ripping off launchd for linux without xml < 1413751492 515188 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what "colord.service" is in that boot log. A color profile thing? < 1413751518 539036 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently. < 1413751526 510512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Starting infrequently used on-demand socket-based daemons from launchd seems like it could open the main system process to a potential denial of service attack. I have not explored this idea or researched to see if it has already been tried, but I would opt for inetd/xinetd over launchd." < 1413751533 652419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay launchd FUD is... way weirder than systemd FUD < 1413751619 287486 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? < 1413751622 521100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: incidentally, you can add cpressey to the list of UK (former) #esoteric people, apparently < 1413751628 220751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hm to which part? < 1413751635 170163 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think I knew that. < 1413751656 160914 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Makes sense, though. Isn't there something very British about Befunge? < 1413751657 116163 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on demand socket? So it basically xinetd/inetd as well? < 1413751667 730938 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would it be more prone to DOS than those < 1413751673 348091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: launchd/systemd both do socket activation of services < 1413751678 594822 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1413751681 148861 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did chris pressey stop being active on the esoteric wiki? < 1413751684 917700 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Same as xinetd/inetd then < 1413751690 454894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what if you DoS pid 1?" has to be the oddest objection I've heard to that < 1413751705 122531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"better use inetd instead, everyone knows that's secure and robust" < 1413751730 924119 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Incidentally, despite the cliché, apparently it rains more here than it does in London, at least when looking at total precipitation numbers. < 1413751733 132526 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well okay, xinetd crashing is less of a problem than pid 1 crashing, I'll admit that. < 1413751776 742265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you'd be in london, then? < 1413751792 259413 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish this laptop had a nicer screen. IPS or something < 1413751792 945706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Thereabouts, yes, if I take the deal. < 1413751803 73635 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate this TN viewing angle nonsense < 1413751816 283368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I hear germany is totally awful. < 1413751825 650219 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably going to prod the Germans soon, if I don't hear from them. < 1413751885 107942 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as places-to-live go, it seemed quite nice; it's a lot different from London, though, being a city of about 250k people. < 1413751917 892369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 250k is about the population of the UK. < 1413751952 337571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It" being the place in Germany that job would be in, not Germany in general. < 1413751988 154140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :germany has twenty five thousand million people in it. < 1413752013 222416 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, what a terribly large city < 1413752031 235156 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the error bars on these population counts < 1413752043 430507 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Larger than the absolute value of the measurement. < 1413752049 840905 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be negative people. < 1413752062 350036 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're saying there might be sixty thousand million people in germany < 1413752064 541321 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty intense < 1413752080 405829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: there are by now < 1413752088 309956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :germany's rate of immigration is very high < 1413752092 19472 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 70k people per km² < 1413752100 730973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have very small apartments. < 1413752114 635473 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :168k for the sixty thousand million < 1413752134 148956 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :.1681 people per m². doable < 1413752143 929073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone who moved in in the past few seconds is a partner of someone already living there, they share the apartment < 1413752147 670755 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, they have very high buildings, with many subsurface levels as well < 1413752160 290780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, germans have yet to discover architecture < 1413752165 991479 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh okay < 1413752167 836471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't spread lies < 1413752183 173392 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have those AA towers from wwii and other than that they have to live in pelt tents < 1413752206 689857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it's kind of weird to think you sort of could house sixty thousand million people in germany < 1413752211 181097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like they'd be really cramped but... < 1413752219 679711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that figure is kinda workable < 1413752225 570191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really, really wanted to < 1413752226 699131 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, in an arcology, maybe. < 1413752238 452457 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, what, six square metres per person? < 1413752239 714982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said anything about archaeology? < 1413752246 218467 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :who indeed < 1413752251 274384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, ".1681 people per m²". < 1413752279 886416 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like one sixth of a person, yes. < 1413752284 365838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1413752293 266562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure there are apartments in NYC smaller than that < 1413752298 397323 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.9488 m² per person < 1413752318 16184 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it suddenly seems kind of weird that we use surface area in these measurements < 1413752325 389912 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that i'm sitting in the fifth floor of a building atm < 1413752330 728359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sink, toilet, put the bed a layer up, got enough space for like, a fridge and a microwave and a chair, maybe < 1413752347 346687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you tried really, really hard < 1413752358 910109 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to say where the ceiling of a country is, if you wanted to use volume instead. < 1413752364 271835 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : it suddenly seems kind of weird that we use surface area in these measurements <-- as opposed to? < 1413752371 478098 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1413752385 268595 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the main problem is that you need other things too, like, is every one of these 6 m² blocks also a farm and sewage treatment plant < 1413752396 255045 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, I mean what else than m² would you use < 1413752396 505631 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both. manure. < 1413752405 331634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now there would be a problem that you couldn't fill the space with anything but houses < 1413752408 889525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1413752413 461323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people could run stores out of their apartments < 1413752417 745037 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :genius < 1413752419 486562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :supplies could come in through the roof, dropped off by air < 1413752425 145975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd keep a map of the Grid < 1413752426 976598 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each of the 6 square-metre plot of land must clearly be an entirely self-sufficient tower, then you have no problems. < 1413752434 577655 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that makes sense < 1413752441 594027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, yet to discover architecture... keep up :p < 1413752470 969414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't stop imagining this overpopulated german hellscape... < 1413752484 340952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew. you sure don't want to live there, do you, fizzie? < 1413752501 262020 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that one time HR Giger designed arcologies for Switzerland shaped like satanic pyramids, and sent the design to the swiss chancellor < 1413752506 641282 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of his best work imo < 1413752507 373003 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the canonical population count of Trantor? w < 1413752515 353479 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :45 billion, apparently. < 1413752521 854405 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't trantor have underwater oceans and farms < 1413752528 346320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't actually sound like all that much. < 1413752534 256245 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it doesn't /now/ < 1413752537 775370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: did they get built? < 1413752561 969465 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: alas, there were some issues with the plan to use felons to man the radioactive waste disposals in the pyramid cores < 1413752563 82344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Its land surface of 194,000,000 km² (75,000,000 miles², 130% of Earth land area) --" it's even bigger. < 1413752570 778782 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't trantor like the home of the secrect second foundation peeps? < 1413752589 698136 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretend farmers. < 1413752590 142600 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Trantor from now again? < 1413752593 836425 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard the name before < 1413752594 586590 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foundation. < 1413752595 389560 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: No, it was the center of the Empire. < 1413752598 137466 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the foundation series. < 1413752599 380982 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1413752601 542597 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: that was after the empire collapsed < 1413752603 195127 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't read it < 1413752606 277761 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but after the fall < 1413752608 372745 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1413752610 79998 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think they were < 1413752610 329595 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably should < 1413752617 470190 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: The Foundation was placed in Terminus. < 1413752621 941993 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if every person on earth got 6 m² we could fit 86 trillion peeps < 1413752624 906127 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds legit tbh < 1413752627 201833 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the outer rings. < 1413752635 735583 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :stand on zanzibar mother fuckers < 1413752639 651706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: we'd have to do something about the oceans...? < 1413752644 581069 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck the oceans < 1413752665 18678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm ready for this horrifying dystopia of torment < 1413752667 430105 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 25.07 trillion if you stick to land like a fucking wuss < 1413752670 470087 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alpha centauri was an ocean. in the second foundation series. < 1413752679 825003 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i almost elided that .07 but then i remembered that was over ten times the actual population < 1413752682 800453 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people there wanted to turn themselves into dolphins. < 1413752692 253784 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't those not by asimov < 1413752705 240384 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third series wasn't, but the second was. < 1413752720 794234 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone remember that short story "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" by vonnegut, it fucked me up < 1413752721 684900 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :greg bear, and two other wrote the third. < 1413752730 847910 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :overpopulation is kind of a dogwhistle but whatever < 1413752733 477737 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway if every person on earth got 6 m² we could fit 86 trillion peeps <-- don't forget it takes more than an apartment to sustain a person. You need to produce food and so on too < 1413752747 536502 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh dude scroll up we already decided everyone runs shit farms < 1413752754 906030 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah okay < 1413752774 103918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we... decided that? < 1413752781 843059 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad farms, but literal shit farms? would that work? do we have the technology < 1413752792 661942 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i decided that, and you're within seven meters of me, so we're pretty much the same < 1413752801 411434 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: like, using the shit as fertilizer. totally sensible < 1413752813 912529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could do something below the housing units? < 1413752827 505919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just poop directly into the endless vast expanse of the underground shit farm < 1413752831 288500 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try this with volume now < 1413752836 825156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am I participating in this < 1413752839 784303 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much is 6 m³? i don't even know < 1413752841 368451 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That certainly sounds better than on top. < 1413752861 88020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is an underground shit farm < 1413752862 249809 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 m³ is a 2×2×2 block, right < 1413752862 886766 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the human centipede on a planetwide scale... < 1413752879 943884 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :look have you ever been to a farm irl, they are disgusting, that's just how it works < 1413752882 481437 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two square metres of area in a reasonable-height room is 6 cubic metres. < 1413752897 935389 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything you eat is regurgitated fixed nitrogen mother fucker < 1413752937 907816 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, if everyone gets a 6 m³ block we can fit 1.805 × 10²⁰ people in the earth's volume. i ahve solved overpopulation. < 1413752941 448585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we just going to invent the matrix here < 1413752963 329121 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, in the earth volume. Right, good luck with that < 1413752968 136116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> compare (10^20) (2^80) < 1413752970 465808 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : LT < 1413752982 899717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1413752983 240794 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should count the volume of a shell around earth, up to a reasonable height < 1413752986 860995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck answer was I expecting < 1413752990 646152 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes this is clearly the only difficult proposal so far < 1413752995 825764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"can we fit more than 2^80 things anywhere in the universe" < 1413752999 203047 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i believe we can do it < 1413753038 392872 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if so, there isn't an x86 extended floating point value for everyone? < 1413753077 43479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is it 10^80, not 2^80 < 1413753086 166380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the number for the observable universe again < 1413753088 579449 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh okay, yeah that is bigger < 1413753104 445781 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, number of protons? < 1413753116 569832 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the. If I type in "2^80 bytes" in Google, the result is "1.20892582 yottabytes". These are some sort of decimal-based byte counts. < 1413753127 824655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :number of planck volumes? :p < 1413753132 263660 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's correct < 1413753135 196806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, google use those now < 1413753142 625025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it'd be "yebi"?? < 1413753149 319312 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yobi < 1413753153 7791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, right < 1413753158 323706 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoshi < 1413753166 13491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu and OS X and maybe windows also use decimal for showing file sizes now < 1413753169 290460 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. It sounds more silly than kibi. < 1413753172 539558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow SI prefixes are spontaneously winning < 1413753184 990012 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're winning because consistency is king < 1413753193 779564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they still overload it for RAM though < 1413753215 907749 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not in the manufacturers' best interest :P < 1413753216 243422 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently exabyte -> exbibyte, not ebibyte. < 1413753234 933952 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1413753244 498041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/4118/how-many-bytes-can-the-observable-universe-store alright < 1413753251 23300 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, it doesn't make sense to not use power of 2 for ram, due to how it is constructed < 1413753278 838867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let's say 10^120 < 1413753283 205888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :any number bigger than that you can give up on < 1413753312 840696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it doesn't make sense to not use powers of 2 for SSDs < 1413753327 573322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and indeed SSDs are often sold with binary prefixes, I think, sigh < 1413753359 386852 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, There is the issue that some space may be reserved though there < 1413753362 605910 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and generally is < 1413753367 952869 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah < 1413753377 716455 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internal data structures, overprovisioning, and more < 1413753384 934887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but I mean you buy a 256 GB SSD, it's actually 256 GiB and also you don't get all of that < 1413753395 238992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you buy an 80 GB SSD, maybe it's actually something close to 80 GB, no i, who knows < 1413753406 182893 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1413753415 33624 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My SSD reports itself as having 1000215216 sectors of 512 bytes. < 1413753423 969222 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, we will see what my 512 GB SSD that I ordered yesterday will be < 1413753448 749687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but it probably doesn't actually deal with 512-byte sectors :p < 1413753528 592519 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what fs should I use on an SSD these days? < 1413753543 978045 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I will install Ubuntu LTS on it (14.04 atm I believe?) < 1413753546 430486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btrfs or ext4 < 1413753553 542751 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is btrfs stable now>? < 1413753558 258835 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/>// < 1413753559 681672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on-disk format is stable < 1413753567 214136 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And actual code? < 1413753569 479515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tools are mostly okay / getting better < 1413753573 762256 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1413753580 342713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual filesystem shouldn't, like, lose your data I don't think, but you do backups, right? < 1413753586 558528 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well sure < 1413753593 811396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're more boring you can just do ext4. < 1413753595 943037 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is still annoying when things break < 1413753610 724772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could use something exciting and obscure like nilfs < 1413753614 72916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :People on a neighboring channel have still been having trouble with btrfs, but they're testing the bleeding-edge btrfs code. < 1413753617 760633 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I heard good things about f2fs iirc < 1413753622 932342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe go all the way to ZFS?!?!?! < 1413753626 195461 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably what ends up in "stable" software is different. < 1413753638 874982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f2fs is for, like, SD card type things more I think < 1413753644 188581 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh okay < 1413753651 156900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1413753675 770880 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm made by samsung, and my SSD is a samsung one < 1413753689 937853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, use a partitioning tool that will align properly like gdisk but who really cares, blah blah blah, SSDs are boring nowadays < 1413753702 162345 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1413753704 413575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but I think f2fs comes out of like, their phones. < 1413753716 372199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's great for SSDs, I don't know. < 1413753717 79021 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1413753725 967226 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :phoronix tests I guess < 1413753731 1731 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Partitions will be aligned on 2048-sector boundaries" makes one wonder if that's just "let's use some giant power of two, that's surely enough for everyone". < 1413753731 194777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btrfs has SSD-specific knowledge iirc < 1413753732 27515 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to read those < 1413753744 401404 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wonder how this will work with dm-crypt < 1413753750 946734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: boringly < 1413753752 765074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading about nilfs several years back in the context of SSDs. < 1413753756 606637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you set up luks, put btrfs on it < 1413753764 882139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the luks stuff will get the alignment right by default nowadays < 1413753772 897397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btrfs is getting native encryption support at some point I think? < 1413753776 774494 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, that makes the data uncompressible, which iirc causes issues with SSDs < 1413753782 491978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all SSDs compress < 1413753788 273406 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah okay < 1413753789 383151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know of SanDisks doing that by default? < 1413753798 152097 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the sandforce controllers do it < 1413753802 425274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, right. < 1413753804 784445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really you don't need kid gloves with SSDs these days. < 1413753809 761011 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1413753811 466151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just do whatever and it's fine. < 1413753824 858336 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should I just use the built in encryption in the SSD? Do I even trust that? < 1413753829 631712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1413753835 376058 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1413753837 966743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least I don't < 1413753844 438435 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably shouldn't use it at all even < 1413754025 153411 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMART report on my system SSD says "Remaining_Lifetime_Percentage" has a value of 29. < 1413754028 143996 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1413754035 22035 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what that's based on. < 1413754049 642766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its internal supply of human blood < 1413754073 638351 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have 33019 Power_On_Hours, so it's not exactly new. < 1413754219 363784 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Max_PE_Count_Spec 10000, Average_Erase_Count 7176; given that 1-7176/10000 is close to 29%, it's probably that. < 1413754292 417144 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rounds the other way, though. < 1413754387 729539 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, time to consider a new drive soon then < 1413754398 190280 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :The drive I'm getting have 10 year warranty < 1413754403 821469 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that is good at least < 1413754565 460435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing shows SSDs survive a lot longer than they say they'll do, IIRC < 1413754586 367611 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which is even better < 1413754721 370784 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, that just means they haven't figured out how to reliably make it fail after a specific amount of time yet :P < 1413755409 331145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1413755480 769045 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Notice: Undefined variable: node in _watcher_node_type_enabled() (line 2840 of /home/joe/staging/beta/sites/all/modules/watcher/watcher.module)" looks very promising < 1413755496 257895 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the site's built by some Joe. < 1413755638 166286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had that regular spinning-disk disk fail two weeks after the three-year warranty period, which shows they've honed those down to science. < 1413756120 180448 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages- < 1413756120 337336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e said 11h 19m 7s ago: Oops, your hello hello world solution is much closer to my "local optimum" than I expected; apparently I had to rewrite the program in order to realize that the shared "world" string could be picked up from the final result list (having only one list helped). I had only tried a:b=["world","hello",a++"!"], resulting in < 1413756120 337491 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :86 characters. Funny. < 1413756154 343883 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep < 1413756158 249289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e i had w:r=["world","hello",w++"!"] in a previous version. < 1413756158 404632 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1413756159 801449 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh you took on the horrible text formatting problem < 1413756177 927210 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which is why I got a hdd with 5 year warranty last time < 1413756178 719848 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(euclidean distance ;-) ) < 1413756276 685524 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also an enterprise disk, since that is made for 24/7 operation. And surprisingly it was pretty much the same price as a comparable non-enterprise hdd. < 1413756278 12797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yep. i surely thought importing something would help, but my current best version has no imports and beats the one using Numeric by 1 char. (Text.Printf _should_ have won except for stupid lack of defaulting to Double.) < 1413756279 424509 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what was your 85 characters version? < 1413756287 250518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413756370 567533 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: do you mean the rounding off stuff of Euclidian norm? < 1413756396 465493 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: rounding, omitting trailing zeros, etc. < 1413756416 226221 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i kinda f'ed that up... < 1413756430 35860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a great esolanging announcement < 1413756436 531414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have solved a problem which has been open since 1996 < 1413756440 844624 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the funny thing is... i wanted to use something in burlesque that would have helped just that. < 1413756462 605413 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, ais523? < 1413756475 430541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by my estimate of your age i take it you didn't create the problem. < 1413756476 855186 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i mean, which open problem. < 1413756525 199381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((((#65535$#65535)~((V32((?32((?32(.4$.2)~(#0$#65535))$.1)~(#0$#65535))$(?32((((V32((&32(.4$.2)~(#0$#65535))$.9)~(#0$#65535))$#0)~(#32767$#1))$.2)~(#0$#65535)))~(#0$#65535))$#65535))$.4)~(#0$#65535))$.9) <- '"?.1$.2"~"#0$#65535"'$'"&.1$.2"~"#0$#65535"' < 1413756532 724381 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course! < 1413756534 106095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to add two numbers in a single INTERCAL expression < 1413756538 753162 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1413756541 774001 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful < 1413756552 713115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, wait, that's a mix of two different syntaxes < 1413756560 244031 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION takes back esoaward
< 1413756562 683434 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably very impressive, bike. < 1413756577 27407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to write a new interpreter just to be able to run this code < 1413756577 243978 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right ... () vs. '" < 1413756579 276038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takse four minutes < 1413756582 933545 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, adding in base ten? < 1413756592 273253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL numbers are numbers < 1413756596 980556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just adding them numerically < 1413756604 456817 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... church numbers? < 1413756607 698922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't an inherent base, although all the operators you can use on them are bitwise < 1413756612 144897 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i seem not to have saved an 85 char version. < 1413756616 778458 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've only read up on it a bit. < 1413756618 928864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: INTERCAL onespots are like C shorts < 1413756624 824970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a functional language < 1413756629 347506 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok. < 1413756649 64159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : DO :2 <- :1/"'"'#65535$#65535'~'"'?"'"'V"'&.4$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$.9'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~'#32767$#1'"$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#65535'"$.4'~'#0$#65535'"$.9 < 1413756650 548419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : DO :1 <- '"?.1$.2"~"#0$#65535"'$'"&.1$.2"~"#0$#65535"' < 1413756652 48558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : DO .1 <- "?.2$.4" < 1413756661 131804 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think adding would depend that much on base used? < 1413756663 816685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it in proper INTERCAL syntax, split out into three lines for clarity and portability < 1413756677 127797 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i'm confusing unlambda with intercal now. sorry. < 1413756680 872518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it was much more similar to my final one than to your "local optimum", though. < 1413756760 76594 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: words"world hello world!" looked so nice, I kept putting it back :) < 1413756827 869653 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm indeed. < 1413756838 68593 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ais523, let me say congratulations. I have no idea how hard the feat is, but i have no doubt it would be beyond me in this lifetime. < 1413756864 666910 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the end, the statistics pretty much convinced me that henkma's code didn't contain that string and used the [...w++"!"] trick instead. < 1413756865 126869 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People pay hundreds of dollars for a Forth environment? < 1413756886 654401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: My current backup disk is nominally a "surveillance storage" disk, because the price was the same, and the warranty slightly longer (3 years vs. 2 years) than the most basic consumer devices, plus it said something about being suitable for an "always-on" operation. < 1413756894 652903 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (WD "Pruple" series.) < 1413756895 242294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: this all came about because I was trying to write a contract bridge AI < 1413756896 124649 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :people pay hundreds of dollars for bird nests made into food < 1413756899 384613 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purple, not pruple. < 1413756926 106058 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah my desktop disks are WD Se disks < 1413756934 431166 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the alternative would have been WD Black < 1413756941 914048 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i actually read that article that... eric(i think) wrote, you're one of the foremost experts on intercal, right? < 1413756959 666723 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bird nests have a supply limit argument going for them, though. < 1413756962 634368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: yes, thus it's not surprising I ended up in this channel < 1413756963 799117 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh and there's a new problem there, "Belgian Numbers". < 1413756968 367327 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, a bridge ai... in intercal??? < 1413756973 358795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: no, in Prolog < 1413756976 925341 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew. < 1413756981 162150 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my backup disks are not on all the time and are thus cheaper and slower external USB3 disks < 1413757005 644400 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Last I looked it was mostly about the colors (Blue, Green, Black, Red, Purple); I don't know what these Se, Re, Xe, Ae signify. < 1413757042 560547 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how could that possibly be related to adding number in that language. < 1413757052 869251 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(These desktop disks are now "Seagate Barracuda 7200.14"'s.) < 1413757056 634911 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry if i'm showing my profound ignorance. < 1413757089 1359 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe ordering hands... < 1413757101 77055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: well, what's the maximum number of points a bridge hand can be worth, on the normal point counting system? (that's 4 for an ace, 3 for a king, 2 for a queen, 1 for a jack, and 1 for every card beyond the fourth in a suit) < 1413757129 283501 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 cards per hand, right? < 1413757134 483652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1413757139 273251 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a while since i've bridged. < 1413757143 308468 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Se, Re and Xe are enterprise disks. Not sure about Ae < 1413757143 592872 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1413757150 933341 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 19 < 1413757154 661756 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and there is also the velicoraptor on the side < 1413757159 412143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can get the answer in less than about 5 minutes, you're doing better than my bridge AI was < 1413757185 123311 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :30? < 1413757188 372026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1413757217 16492 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh 4444333322221 = 37 < 1413757228 836646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1413757231 784380 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ae is apparently for "archive" use. < 1413757250 708292 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1413757268 254939 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think Xe is SAS only < 1413757270 43529 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, and intercal counts like that, somehow? < 1413757298 910133 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Moving cold data to value-optimized archive media delivers significant TCO savings by freeing up expensive performance-critical storage system capacity." It's like they've designed their ad copy for buzzword bingo. < 1413757315 322432 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1413757333 868398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: no, but trying to evaluate INTERCAL reverse assignments is a similar sort of optimization problem < 1413757356 315928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"find a hand that's worth 37 points" is pretty much the same sort of operation as "find a number which, when selected with itself, gives #5" < 1413757376 269339 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeeeh < 1413757392 98841 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the former has a solution :) < 1413757410 722548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, henkma used the trick that 99l lexes as 99 + l. funny that popped into my mind earlier today... < 1413757412 285123 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Xe seems like DC velicoraptor basically hm < 1413757421 762807 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i kinda see. < 1413757426 423201 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I did that too < 1413757440 485861 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you had an ai look for the expression. < 1413757441 53042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: indeed < 1413757455 29487 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't remember what Re is for < 1413757468 795623 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I remember figuring out that Se was basically DC black < 1413757477 127662 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roman numerals could work pretty well with scientific notation. < 1413757505 548463 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :II*X^VI < 1413757510 677584 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, henkma's and my code ended up almost identical anyway < 1413757548 732511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh indeed, and quite different from mine < 1413757583 357774 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should say "isomorphic" < 1413757591 180432 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they _are_ identical, except for naming and a switch between ; and newline < 1413757598 305789 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, alpha-equivalent < 1413757604 106340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1413757608 673493 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the ; doesn't really count) < 1413757638 150572 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that I have all my shinh haskell golf code in a single file and that's easier to manage when the code is all on one line. < 1413757666 916533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. i seem to have switched from ; to newlines after i found out how to count chars in a block in vim < 1413757675 797465 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alpha-equivalent would be a neat band band name. < 1413757711 634348 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't count. http://sprunge.us/hbfF < 1413757731 694164 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the --- thing is the best known solution, I put my own above if it's optimal :) < 1413757873 407878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : phew. <-- you mean DISAPPOINTING hth < 1413757875 574611 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so far I have not run into a problem that *needs* newlines. < 1413757901 462530 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't dare to be so hard. < 1413757924 772581 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know my limitations, and what ais523, or even you guys do is beyond me, and impressive. < 1413757982 698946 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, oerjan wrote an unlambda interpreter in intercal < 1413757982 852799 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, i've only taken an interest in the nitty gritty of programming and such, these last few months. < 1413757995 230259 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess from that perspective, a bridge AI looks at least doable. < 1413758157 170496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i'm not that efficient. my Golf.hs file contains a lot of sometimes nested {- -}'s which confuse vim's syntax coloring no end. < 1413758285 40097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: to _need_ newlines you'd have something with two do blocks or the like in it, i think, so that you cannot put both at the end. < 1413758302 494210 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do and where blocks, right. < 1413758322 837984 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't had a use for where or let yet, the seem too verbose compared to the alternatives. < 1413758325 844081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thye < 1413758330 444896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*they :P < 1413758349 279749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, this newsreader is ridiculous < 1413758363 446435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a drop-down menu to choose the Encoding header you want, with a choice of valid options < 1413758371 858434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the message itself is always sent in latin-1 < 1413758375 849788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _did_ use a do block once, but then you beat me and i had to find another solution. < 1413758430 136584 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, I do have *one* where so far, and I wouldn't know how to replace it without making that particular code longer. < 1413758477 636851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1413758518 715872 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I could use let...in... at the same cost) < 1413758525 383031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I just sent my program + documentation to alt.lang.intercal < 1413758527 529457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a sharchive < 1413758552 991260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: is that code revealed yet? (or ever.) < 1413758560 613483 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1413758565 120739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1413758664 551258 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible one of my not-yet-revealed solutions _could_ give you a hint to improve that. then maybe not. :P < 1413758687 387936 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1413759017 482434 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map length ["(\f->)$val","where f=val"] < 1413759019 982242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [9,11] < 1413759036 417377 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.109 QUIT : < 1413759069 121601 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you just improve it yourself :) < 1413759080 375917 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. it's not applicable. < 1413759088 223903 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1413759119 246293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also _still_ longer than the hint you might get. < 1413759127 569790 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1413759186 679741 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :we also both know about infix operators, which can also sometimes help in that context. < 1413759205 734049 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway. < 1413759372 427958 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1413759390 928976 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1413759398 602334 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i haven't actually got my trick to be the _best_ option yet, alas. < 1413759414 366619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think it's only a matter of time. < 1413759418 343622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1413759429 172297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413759487 444805 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what you mean. But it's still not applicable. :) < 1413759509 855175 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you think you do? < 1413759553 254554 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a certain haskell 2010 novelty. < 1413759579 255185 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah hinting too much again :P < 1413759650 56114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason i can see why it wouldn't be applicable is if you are using several guards that the where needs to scope over. < 1413759659 372264 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice one, I should find a use for it :) < 1413759670 805421 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except then a let ... in wouldn't work? < 1413759740 748097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose they could be structured completely differently. < 1413759755 771309 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're on the wrong track < 1413759760 517835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1413759800 146793 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f|True=1;f|False=2 in f < 1413759802 97369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Conflicting definitions for ‘f’ < 1413759802 250688 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bound at: :1:5 < 1413759802 250896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:14 < 1413759818 543343 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f|True=1|False=2 in f < 1413759820 596340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1413759834 99234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1413759841 607521 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1::Bool < 1413759845 798227 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Bool) < 1413759845 951577 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the literal ‘1’ < 1413759858 237958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait duh < 1413759947 555600 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess I shouldn't show that particular line to a Haskell beginner, even with proper whitespace added) < 1413759982 33831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f|True,True=1|False=2 in f < 1413759983 854564 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1413759995 529492 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently
< 1413760023 496954 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1413760046 850785 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i wasn't on the wrong track anyhow? :) < 1413760073 345001 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> case () of _|True<-True->True < 1413760075 59575 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1413760094 839250 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> case () of _| True<-True,True->True < 1413760096 432363 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1413760150 70757 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> case () of _| True|True<-True,True->True -- alas < 1413760152 139958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:19: parse error on input ‘|’ < 1413760190 4324 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also! It was Coruscant (which, to be fair, I've heard to be Trantor-inspired) with the more ridiculous canonical population figure, of approximately one trillion. < 1413760192 655427 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know what the semantics of that are supposed to be) < 1413760248 309109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> case () of _| True,True<-True,True->True < 1413760249 993462 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1413760254 772759 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413760367 449820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's only like 100 times the population density of the Earth < 1413760382 33145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that'd be achievable with the technology level of that universe < 1413760392 126015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially given that planets are three-dimensional < 1413760409 724267 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem that always comes up is removing waste heat < 1413760437 431028 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, they need to be able to break laws of thermodynamics < 1413760446 324343 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the canonical thing. People have written oodles of text about how that's a problem, and also about how that's not a problem. < 1413760468 733546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't be surprised that people have looked into whether this would be feasible < 1413760475 644282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't really considered it < 1413760498 388869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irregular Webcomic had comics referring to it < 1413760508 189919 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1413760594 241494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mqallen.com/2013/05/16/coruscant-heat-dissipation-and-basic-worldbuilding/ claims it's not a problem. < 1413760609 294887 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413760808 889550 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a number of places that claim it is, including, yes, IWC. < 1413760870 195000 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rrdndznnqnwlexjz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1413760900 728233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that article thinks it's not a problem if one trillion people live there < 1413760907 655101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it also estimates the population at one quintillion < 1413760935 445314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would definitely cause heat dissipation problems < 1413761052 484773 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the official novels mention the heat-to-space thing. < 1413761153 584479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I want is to fill germany with fertiliser < 1413761187 888486 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fertilizer was in you all along, elliott < 1413761200 526689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1413762235 301156 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is my solution to belgian numbers 3 chars longer than int-e's hmm < 1413762315 105338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1413762349 302441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1413762528 584509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1413762537 797872 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he found out why < 1413762539 129217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no wait < 1413762542 471868 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not < 1413762556 232879 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hard is haskell to learn? < 1413762562 141377 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably twelve or so < 1413762573 80157 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth. < 1413762573 353778 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a little, a lot? < 1413762595 835770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's occasionally claimed that it's not so hard unless you've had your brain ruined by other languages first. < 1413762598 280160 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's twelve, what more do you want from me < 1413762611 480762 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an exact, quantitative measurement < 1413762611 652437 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan, if you go into it thinking it's going to be hard, it's going to be hard. If you go into it thinking it's going to be easy, it might be easy < 1413762615 712261 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know a few languages... a couple. < 1413762617 553533 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I found it pretty easy) < 1413762625 822632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: then you're DOOMED hth < 1413762641 149057 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you can grasp programming without mutability you'll probably be fine) < 1413762641 394635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: but you only knew Piet beforehand, no? < 1413762652 275225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was actually a step _down_ < 1413762660 114092 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Piet, a little VB.Net, JavaScript, PHP, Python < 1413762668 25325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1413762672 193438 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget snobol < 1413762683 387931 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snobol's about 18 hard to learn, if you need a comparison < 1413762685 380273 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok let's say that it was the Piet that saved your brain. like unlambda mine. < 1413762710 510146 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually broke my laptop writing very bad Python trying to solve a Project Euler problem < 1413762725 601010 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it started thrashing and I sort of messed up stopping then recovering < 1413762767 327796 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now a better programmer than I used to be < 1413762774 128142 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey I started with some Basic, machine code, Pascal, Assembly, Logo, Scheme, C ... with some scripting languages inbetween. lambda calculus, haskell. < 1413762778 947972 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, "haskell guy" < 1413762779 103821 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good for creating prototype... languages, right? i was looking at the icfp competition and haskell does alright. < 1413762805 913686 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so tired of Lua making my life difficult. < 1413762807 612365 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when coupled with a parser written in something convenient like snobol, perhaps < 1413762819 277689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: yes ... *swats Bike -----### < 1413762824 970166 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could I join the asking a question queue < 1413762835 605835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i'm sure < 1413762847 221029 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: just don't expect it to be like the programming languages that you already know. you'll often have to learn new ways of solving old problems. < 1413762860 635060 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has to be a good thing. < 1413762883 644554 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could someone explain to me why only prime n make 2^n - 1 prime? < 1413762893 320204 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been said that snobol is not so hard unless you've had your brain ruined by other languages first < 1413762901 891000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: 2^(mn)-1 is divisible by 2^m-1 < 1413762905 503728 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: because 2^a-1 divides 2^(a*b)-1 < 1413762920 272883 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: because oerjan and int-e said so. < 1413762926 242569 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're so efficient! < 1413762955 730177 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: it is a good thing. it's very frustrating at times, but it gives you a rather pleasing high when you can make it work with clean mathematical principles. < 1413762960 530084 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you < 1413762976 177688 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good. < 1413762980 846316 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna try it. < 1413762984 57712 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it's a special case of the fact that k-1 divides k^n-1 for all k>1 and n>=0. < 1413762993 659306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I have decided that Prolog is an esolang < 1413762993 913053 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, why does that hold? < 1413762998 426313 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks. < 1413763004 456541 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sounds legit < 1413763008 327255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: cobol is 13 hard but only because your brain keeps falling asleep < 1413763018 474192 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a legitimate concern! < 1413763019 881848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nothing like pretty much any other language, and it tends to have terrible library support < 1413763023 173291 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: if you haven't read it yet, you should peruse Learn You a Haskell for Great Good. < 1413763029 456999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(put it this way: I have to write my own maps and folds in Prolog) < 1413763033 900897 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :going there now. < 1413763053 901451 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's where mroman got the title for his burlesque's tutorial < 1413763060 120541 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, paraphrased. < 1413763080 778096 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.71.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Read Learn you a Burlesque for no good!" < 1413763085 416149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: (k^n-1) = (k^(n-1)+k^(n-2)+...+1)*(k-1), proof by cancelling terms < 1413763091 476801 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: prove it by induction. intuitively, if you multiply (k^(n-1)+...+k^2+k+1) by (k-1), you get k^n-k^(n-1)+k^(n-1)..-k+k-1, and most terms cancel. < 1413763098 96001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :EFFICIENT < 1413763098 776517 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: stop reading my mind! < 1413763111 233907 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I pretend that is a standard result for my number theory assignment? < 1413763118 836474 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess there is only this standard explanation) < 1413763123 240887 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of want a copy of mathematics made difficult just so i can spout answers from it < 1413763124 702781 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes < 1413763145 836483 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: of course I'm the wrong person to ask :P < 1413763154 60471 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see, you want to prove limit cycles exist. well, first, i'll need to tell you about types with holes < 1413763158 114315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: there's probably a fancier one that's very short and elegant < 1413763164 168750 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: but it is a standard result. < 1413763186 231853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, k^n == 1^n (mod k-1), come to think of it