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00:45:26 <FireFly> That's a bit annoying for J golfing
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01:12:28 <Sgeo> I should play Nomyx
01:12:34 <Sgeo> Is Nomyx the new PerlNomic
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02:54:58 <zzo38> Why does this program crash when "i" or "i-" or "i_" is specified but not "i-_" and "i_-"?
02:55:00 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/iedA
02:57:35 <PixelToast> zzo38, i dunno but i made you http://i.imgur.com/hnRkv1R.png
03:20:19 <vanila> would that be logical and
03:26:54 <newsham> 2047 = 2^11 - 1, a fine bitmask.
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03:41:43 <zzo38> It is bitwise, but I don't expect that would explain it crashing?
03:43:54 <zzo38> O nevermind I found the mistake.
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04:46:59 <Sgeo> Is it just me or does Nomyx have a lot of infrastructure that is not rules?
04:49:03 <PixelToast> Sgeo, i dunno but i made you http://ptoast.tk/logo/SGEO.png
04:50:55 <Sgeo> I thought you were a bot
04:51:31 <Sgeo> Still think you're maybe running a script
04:53:12 <PixelToast> the logo thing isnt though, i just got bored and generated logos for you
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04:59:47 <elliott> http://ptoast.tk/logo/PENIS.png ok.
05:03:39 <Sgeo> Wait what? There doesn't seem to be a script there, QNTM didn't work
05:04:08 <Sgeo> Oh there's a listing of all files and I can only assume PENIS was there for some reason
05:04:57 <PixelToast> elliott, my bot generates the logos, and my friends like to mess with eachother
05:08:17 <PixelToast> this should work http://i.imgur.com/jvdKyAi.png
05:12:07 <Sgeo> All the YouTube spammers seem to have decided that my name is Alex. I'm not sure why.
05:12:33 <Sgeo> "Hey Alex this is the pretty at the restaurant!"
05:12:42 <Sgeo> I... who calls themselves 'the pretty'?
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05:33:14 <int-e> @tell oerjan I think the 62 characters "prime numbers" solution relied on n+k-patterns. (meaning, I have a 62 characters version that works with n+k-patterns). The timing is right; ghc accepted them before 7.0, and 7.0.1 was released in November 2010.
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05:59:24 <int-e> @tell oerjan and btw I've browsed previous solutions a bit; there doesn't seem to be a magical primality test besides the Fermat one.
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07:07:35 <zzo38> Why are some SQL implementations not supporting triggers on views? I find it to be a very useful feature.
07:12:52 <int-e> sounds tricky to implement.
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07:20:44 <int-e> I guess it's easy enough for projections, managable for views that just filter rows of a single table by some not-so-clever where clause, and gets exceedingly complicated if views are defined by arbitrary select statements. how do you explain which cases will work and which won't?
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07:24:40 <zzo38> int-e: Well, if it is INSTEAD OF INSERT, then it is easy. For INSTEAD OF UPDATE and INSTEAD OF DELETE, the implementation can internally do a SELECT on it and call the triggers according to the ones that match the WHERE clauses of the UPDATE and DELETE statements. (Triggers other than INSTEAD OF may be more complicated for views, but I don't need them anyways, and SQLite doesn't implement them.)
07:28:46 <zzo38> So I do not quite understand everything you are meaning.
07:30:19 <int-e> I see. So you do not want something that triggers when the underlying tables are changed; instead, you want to translate updates on the view into updates on the underlying tables. That sounds quite a bit less scary.
07:31:34 <zzo38> I like the way SQLite does it: Doing an INSERT, UPDATE, or DELETE on a view only calls all of the applicable attached triggers and does nothing else (if there are no triggers of the correct type, it is an error).
07:32:24 <zzo38> So it won't automatically know how to write to the underlying table and stuff like that; you have to put it in yourself if you want it.
07:33:43 <zzo38> The INSTEAD OF keyword indicates its working like this.
07:33:54 <int-e> I did not consider "instead of" triggers at all. So we were talking cross purposes.
07:34:24 <zzo38> (If you want it to trigger when the underlying tables are changed, you can put triggers on the tables themselves. Tables in SQLite support BEFORE and AFTER triggers; not INSTEAD OF. Views support only INSTEAD OF; not BEFORE and AFTER.)
07:34:39 <int-e> (nor did I consider applying updates to a view rather than tables)
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07:58:48 <zzo38> I find that I rarely use triggers other than INSTEAD OF INSERT, although they are sometimes useful.
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08:48:11 <zzo38> Do you use SQL sometimes, and do you use views and triggers often?
08:49:36 <mroman> prime substrings are substrings that represent primes?
08:50:09 <mroman> !blsq 2{"33"jCO}GO\[ri
08:50:09 <blsqbot> Ain't nobody got time fo' dat!
08:50:14 <mroman> !blsq 2{"33"jCO}GO\[)ri
08:50:18 <mroman> !blsq 2{"33"jCO}GO\[ri
08:50:32 <mroman> !blsq 2{"33"jCO}GO\[ri{fCL[2==}m[
08:50:39 <mroman> !blsq 2{"33"jCO}GO\[ri{fCL[}m[
08:50:46 <mroman> !blsq 2{"33"jCO}GO\[ri{fCL[1==}m[
08:50:52 <mroman> !blsq 2{"33"jCO}GO\[ri{fCL[1==Sh}m[\[
08:51:08 <mroman> !blsq 5{"37373"jCO}GO\[ri{fCL[1==Sh}m[\[
08:51:46 <mroman> !blsq 5{"37373"jCO}GO\[ri{fCU_}m[\[
08:51:46 <blsqbot> {1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1}
08:53:01 <mroman> !blsq 5{"37373"jCO}GO\[ri{fC[-z?Sh}m[\[
08:53:18 <mroman> fizzie: Do you use fC[-z? as a prime check?
08:55:41 <fizzie> I used that originally, but working around zero cost more than using fcL[2== instead (which deals with zero properly).
08:55:50 <blsqbot> That line gave me an error
08:56:15 <fizzie> Well, "properly" is a matter of opinion, but suitably-for-this-purpose anyway.
08:56:26 <b_jonas> what? isn't there a bulit-in prime check in blsq?
08:57:13 <fizzie> (0fC gives a "divide by zero" error.)
08:58:31 <mroman> b_jonas: nope there isn't
08:59:15 <mroman> fc is horribly slower than fC
08:59:30 <mroman> I guess 0fC should return {0} or something
09:00:03 <mroman> I'll add a prime check built-in in 1.7.4
09:00:21 <mroman> that uses trial divisions for small integers and miller rabin for larger ones
09:00:30 <fizzie> I also tried Jfcpd== but it's no shorter than fcL[2== and fails for 1.
09:01:13 <fizzie> It works for zero, due to {}pd being 1.
09:01:36 <mroman> fizzie: I defined {}pd as 1 because math told to do so
09:01:52 <blsqbot> ERROR: Burlesque: (r[) Empty list!
09:02:15 <mroman> nah that won't help either :)
09:02:38 <mroman> b_jonas: theres factor and prime-factors
09:03:06 <blsqbot> {2 3 4 5 7 8 9 11 13 16 17 19 23 25 27 29 31 32}
09:03:07 <b_jonas> mroman: and one for divisors too?
09:03:25 <blsqbot> {2 3 4 5 7 8 9 11 13 16 17 19 23 25 27 29 31 32 37 41 43 47 49 53 59 61 64 67 71
09:03:50 <b_jonas> list of positive divisors of a number
09:03:57 <mroman> that's what factors does
09:04:20 <blsqbot> {1 2 3 4 6 8 9 12 16 18 24 36 48 72 144}
09:04:33 <mroman> @oeis 23,25,27,29,31,32,37,41,43
09:04:36 <lambdabot> Powers of primes. Alternatively, 1 and the prime powers (p^k, p prime, k >= ...
09:04:59 <blsqbot> {{2} {3} {2 2} {5} {7} {2 2 2} {3 3} {11} {13} {2 2 2 2} {17} {19} {23} {5 5} {3
09:05:32 <j-bot> b_jonas: 144 144 144 144 144 144 144 144 144 144 144 144 144 144 144
09:06:37 <j-bot> b_jonas: 1 2 3 4 6 8 9 12 16 18 24 36 48 72 144
09:07:57 <mroman> that looks unreadable as hell.
09:08:15 <j-bot> mroman: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 12...
09:08:21 <j-bot> mroman: |syntax error
09:08:25 <j-bot> mroman: |syntax error
09:08:37 <mroman> You got me. I don't know J.
09:09:52 <mroman> 100ro{fCsm}f[ is just 1..100, calculate prime factors and filter for lists where all elements are the same
09:11:17 <blsqbot> {1 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 0
09:11:23 <blsqbot> {1 2 3 5 6 7 10 11 13 14 15 17 19 21 22 23 26 29 30 31 33 34 35 37 38 39 41 42 4
09:12:03 <mroman> @oeis 7,10,11,13,14,15,17,19,21,22
09:12:07 <lambdabot> Squarefree numbers (or square-free numbers): numbers that are not divisible ...
09:12:59 <mroman> there should be FO and FZ like GO and GZ
09:13:14 <mroman> 100{fCU_}FO instead of 100ro{fCU_}f[
09:14:08 <mroman> sometimes you can workaround the 0 by doing
09:14:36 <mroman> i.e. instead of 100rz{...}f[ -> 100ro{...}f[0
09:15:31 <fizzie> I guess, but here it's the individual substrings that are occasionally 0.
09:16:59 <fizzie> Since a 0 is what I need as the output for 0, what I did was J{...}if which is not too bad, but still 5B.
09:18:45 <AndoDaan> I worked so hard to get J{}if out of my first solution... and here you have it, and your code is still 5B shorter
09:19:14 <fizzie> AndoDaan: I mean, I had J{}if before; I don't have it any more.
09:19:14 <mroman> fizzie: Your recommendation for 0fC is what?
09:20:07 <blsqbot> Ain't nobody got time fo' dat!
09:20:20 <fizzie> mroman: 1fC seems to be {}, so maybe 0fC could be too. But I don't know.
09:20:39 <mroman> yeah. {} is probably best
09:20:49 <mroman> fc for negative numbers should contain -1
09:20:59 <AndoDaan> 0fC gives a dived by zero error. i think.
09:22:33 <mroman> so -8fc should probably be {-1 -2 -4 -8 1 2 4 8}?
09:23:19 <blsqbot> ERROR: Unknown command: (ng)!
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09:24:21 <fizzie> Couldn't you use the same logic to argue that 8fc should be that too?
09:24:57 <mroman> but that wouldn't be what a Burlesque-user would expect it to do :D
09:25:10 <mroman> I don't know what a Burlesque-user expects -8fc to be
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09:25:30 <AndoDaan> mroman: I was thinking about a command that might be helpful. you have z?, which is useful in filtering false results. So i thought a o?, is one?, could come in handy.
09:25:58 <mroman> which isn't exactly "is one"
09:26:14 <mroman> !blsq {"a" "" "bc" "" "d"}:z?
09:26:17 <mroman> !blsq {"a" "" "bc" "" "d"}:nz
09:26:39 <mroman> !blsq {1 0 1 0 0 1}{}f[
09:27:09 <mroman> AndoDaan: by "is one" you mean "integer 1"?
09:27:45 <AndoDaan> i know 1== is only three char, but for it to work with :
09:27:59 <AndoDaan> it has to be a singly command, right?
09:28:24 <AndoDaan> unless i overlooked something very useful.
09:28:42 <mroman> yes. : only takes a single command
09:30:12 <fizzie> Do ){...} and :{...} mean anything? If not, you could use them as one-byte-saving shorthand for {...}m[ and {...}f[. Though it's a bit silly.
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09:32:01 <blsqbot> {{+. ap} 1 {+. ap} 2 {+. ap} 3}
09:32:26 <blsqbot> {{+. +]} 1 {+. +]} 2 {+. +]} 3}
09:32:37 <blsqbot> {{bx +.} 1 {bx +.} 2 {bx +.} 3}
09:33:21 <fizzie> Oh, I guess it does have a meaning.
09:33:24 <mroman> fizzie: yes @ ){} and :{}
09:33:49 <fizzie> Right, so ){...} is just {{...}}m[.
09:34:13 <mroman> fizzie: but I can add m{...} and f{...} instead of {}m[ or {}f[
09:34:27 <blsqbot> {{) +.} 1 {) +.} 2 {) +.} 3}
09:34:52 <blsqbot> {{pP +.} 1 {pP +.} 2 {pP +.} 3}
09:36:23 <AndoDaan> is there anything that can shorten ]muN ?
09:41:06 <fizzie> AndoDaan: You can turn something like ln{...}]muN into {...Sh}WL at least. There are so many commands, maybe there's some way of also avoiding the Sh.
09:45:06 <AndoDaan> see dammit. I knew I was messing up with ln everytime.
09:47:20 <b_jonas> mroman: what is the command for computing the exp of a floating point number in blsq?
09:50:11 <b_jonas> mroman: also, what's the command for getting all infixes of a particular length of a block, given the length? and what's the command for getting non-overlapping infixes of a particular length, except the last one may be shorter?
09:51:07 <b_jonas> mroman: and what's the command for getting all prefixes of a block, or all suffixes?
09:52:51 <blsqbot> ERROR: Burlesque: (z[) Invalid arguments!
09:53:31 <blsqbot> {{'m 'o} {'o 'n} {'n 's} {'s 't} {'t 'e} {'e 'r}}
10:03:40 <mroman> b_jonas: there's su (substrings)
10:03:54 <mroman> and 1.7.4 has inits and tails
10:04:00 <mroman> (1.7.3 doesn't have that yet)
10:04:20 <blsqbot> ERROR: Burlesque: (**) Invalid arguments!
10:04:24 <blsqbot> ERROR: Unknown command: (.^)!
10:05:41 <blsqbot> {1.0 6.5808859910179205 19.812990745274643 43.30806042677592 79.43235916621322 1
10:05:50 <blsqbot> {2.718281828459045 7.3890560989306495 20.085536923187664 54.59815003314423 148.4
10:06:13 <blsqbot> {"2.718" "7.389" "20.086" "54.598" "148.413" "403.429" "1096.633" "2980.958" "81
10:06:50 <blsqbot> {"m" "n" "o" "s" "t" "mo" "ns" "on" "st" "mon" "nst" "ons" "mons" "onst" "monst"
10:06:59 <b_jonas> ok, but how do I get only the 3-long substrings,
10:07:25 <b_jonas> ok, and how about breaking to non-overlapping substrings?
10:08:09 <b_jonas> oh, it might be right there
10:08:23 <b_jonas> !blsq "non-overlapping infixes"3co
10:08:23 <blsqbot> {"non" "-ov" "erl" "app" "ing" " in" "fix" "es"}
10:08:34 <b_jonas> I should have searched for "chunk"
10:09:01 <mroman> I thought you meant count occurrences of a substring without overlap
10:10:26 <mroman> but that would be a nice builtin!
10:10:35 <mroman> oc - occurences, OC - non-overlapping occurences
10:11:28 <b_jonas> !blsq {0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1}{}fi
10:11:37 <b_jonas> [ 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 i.1
10:11:50 <b_jonas> !blsq {0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0}{}fi
10:13:49 <b_jonas> !blsq {"hello" "world"}{XX}m[tp
10:13:49 <blsqbot> {{'h 'w} {'e 'o} {'l 'r} {'l 'l} {'o 'd}}
10:14:23 <b_jonas> !blsq {"hello" "world"}{XX}m[tp{\[}m[
10:14:24 <blsqbot> {"hw" "eo" "lr" "ll" "od"}
10:14:43 <b_jonas> !blsq {"hello" "world"}{XX}m[tp{}\m
10:14:43 <blsqbot> {'h 'w 'e 'o 'l 'r 'l 'l 'o 'd}
10:14:48 <b_jonas> !blsq {"hello" "world"}{XX}m[tp{\[}m[
10:14:48 <blsqbot> {"hw" "eo" "lr" "ll" "od"}
10:15:09 <mroman> !blsq {"hello" "world"})XXtp)\[
10:15:09 <blsqbot> {"hw" "eo" "lr" "ll" "od"}
10:15:27 <mroman> !blsq "hello""world"z[)\[
10:15:27 <blsqbot> {"hw" "eo" "lr" "ll" "od"}
10:15:44 <mroman> ) is a prefix for maps
10:15:58 <mroman> )ab = {ab}m[, )5 = {5}m[ and so forth.
10:18:24 <mroman> () "quotes" a command so it is pushed to the stack rather than being executed
10:18:48 <blsqbot> ERROR: Burlesque: (e!) Invalid arguments!
10:19:06 <mroman> nobody probably needs that but it's there :D
10:19:59 <mroman> ((9)) is shorter than "(9)"Q fwiw
10:22:25 <b_jonas> ok... that's the part I'm not sure I want to understand now
10:25:01 <mroman> meh. it's pretty simple
10:25:16 <mroman> ( ) just wraps something in a "Quoted"
10:25:31 <mroman> and if the interpreter sees a "Quoted" it unwraps it and pushes the thing inside to the stack
10:26:35 <mroman> (.+ produces an error because there are no numbers on the stack)
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10:32:32 <mroman> What happens if I clone a repository from github
10:32:45 <mroman> make some committs, merge those committs into my master branch
10:32:58 <mroman> and then someone makes committs to the repository on github I cloned from
10:33:27 <mroman> can I just pull those committs?
10:33:44 <mroman> (technically I have to remotes)
10:34:28 <mroman> my local repository -> my repository on bitbucket and the official repository on github
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11:11:14 <lambdabot> int-e said 5h 37m 59s ago: I think the 62 characters "prime numbers" solution relied on n+k-patterns. (meaning, I have a 62 characters version that works with n+k-patterns). The timing is right; ghc accepted them before 7.0, and 7.0.1 was released in November 2010.
11:11:14 <lambdabot> int-e said 5h 11m 49s ago: and btw I've browsed previous solutions a bit; there doesn't seem to be a magical primality test besides the Fermat one.
11:11:50 <oerjan> which means you must have beat me on something _else_...
11:12:12 <oerjan> or possibly my naive prime test is too naive...
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11:23:18 <oerjan> hm shortening that x<2 test is exactly what n+k-patterns would be good at, isn't it.
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12:20:57 <oerjan> wait i didn't finish reading the logs yesterday
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14:27:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40774&oldid=40424 * 67.78.57.11 * (+29) /* Derivative Ideas */
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16:10:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40775&oldid=40774 * 67.78.57.11 * (+141) /* Joke/Silly Ideas */
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18:33:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Element]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40776 * 67.78.57.11 * (+2753) Created page with "'''Element''' is a simple language by [http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/2867/phiNotPi phiNotPi]. It is supposedly designed as "very compact and human-readable". Each in..."
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19:22:11 <tswett> Someone please create a type theory that only describes functions whose output length is at most a polynomial function of the input length.
19:22:58 <tswett> Such a theory would have the neat property that you can't prove that the unary naturals are isomorphic to the binary naturals, because the function from the binary naturals to the unary naturals grows too fast.
19:23:28 <tswett> Likewise, exponentiation can't be defined as a function unat -> unat -> unat or bnat -> bnat -> bnat; the best you can do is bnat -> unat -> bnat.
19:23:57 <tswett> Sounds ultrafinitistic, doesn't it?
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19:27:18 <b_jonas> you'll have to ask people who are good in algebraic logic.
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19:28:32 <vanila> 11:24:49 <tswett> Someone please create a type theory that only describes functions whose output length is at most a polynomial function of the input length.
19:28:36 <vanila> isnt that simple typed lambda calculus/
19:29:24 <vanila> https://archive.org/stream/arxiv-cs0701022/cs0701022_djvu.txt
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19:45:26 <tswett> vanila: good question.
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19:49:08 <tswett> Can the STLC represent the modulo function?
19:49:59 <b_jonas> tswett: with what encoding of the numbers?
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19:54:25 <tswett> I guess the STLC has a bunch of different kinds of Church numerals.
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20:23:01 <int-e> vanila: it's definitely not the simply typed lambda calculus. the extended polynomials arise from restricting to input Church numerals to a single type N(*) where N(t)=(t -> t) -> t -> t and * is a base type. If one allows t to vary, one gets larger growth easily. <n> <m> with <n> :: N(* -> *) and <m> :: N(*) grows exponentially, for example. (It reduces to <n^m> : N(*))
20:24:59 <int-e> But thanks, now I finally know where people get that claim.
20:26:37 <int-e> (I've seen the claim that simply typed lambda calculus corresponds to polynomially bounded functions several times and never figured out how such an obviously wrong idea could become so widely spread.)
20:30:46 <tswett> Does there exist a type t such that exponentiation can be defined as a function (C t -> C t) -> C t, where C t = (t -> t) -> t -> t?
20:32:32 <int-e> I don't understand that type.
20:34:12 <int-e> I mean, f :: (C t -> C t) -> C t has one argument of type C t -> C t. Now, ok, that could be a Church Numeral, but I expected a second argument somewhere?
20:34:56 <tswett> I meant C t -> C t -> C t.
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20:36:16 <int-e> I don't know, though it would surprise me. I don't even know the theory behind the C * result.
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21:19:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40777&oldid=40762 * 216.207.42.140 * (+11) Added Ante
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21:30:46 <zzo38> Are there any leap seconds in future?
21:30:57 <zzo38> If so, what are they? Wikipedia only lists up to now.
21:32:22 <vanila> the leap second community decides when they occur
21:33:37 <vanila> IERS http://www.iers.org/nn_10828/IERS/EN/Service/Glossary/leapSecond.html
21:33:58 <fizzie> There's a proposal going around to dispense with them, I haven't heard any news about how that's going.
21:34:41 <b_jonas> zzo38: the can't be determined long in advance. they're decided like a year or two before.
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21:35:08 <b_jonas> there's a rule for them but it depends on astronomical measurements of earth's position
21:35:32 <zzo38> But, there is software to measure the Earth's position in advance.
21:36:40 <fizzie> I don't think the rotation is predictable enough, with that amount of accuracy, since it's so wobbly.
21:38:49 <fizzie> I mean, look at that thing: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Deviation_of_day_length_from_SI_day.svg
21:42:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ante]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40778 * 216.207.42.140 * (+2116) Ante programming language
21:45:21 <zzo38> I know that Swiss Ephemeris requires an external leap second table, in order to perform accurate calculations.
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22:16:57 <zzo38> I prefer to use BC/AD notations for abbreviations rather than using BCE/CE, although when writing them out in long I will generally prefer to say "common era". (Terms like "before Christ" aren't even accurate, actually.)
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22:38:26 <Taneb> Right, I have 4 weeks to prepare a half hour talk on the lambda calculus
22:41:32 <^v> i like your name
22:41:32 <^v> http://ptoast.tk/logo/DIcqa.png
22:41:52 <Bike> "Have you ever wanted a system of computation that can be mostly explained in ten minutes and isn't based on ticker tape? No? Well, fuck you then"
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23:36:03 <FireFly> Bike: might be hard to stretch that into 30 minutes
23:38:30 <fizzie> takeFor (30 minutes) $ cycle "Have you ever [...]."
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23:53:26 <elliott> that would be good performance art
23:53:46 <elliott> fizzie: so I bet this new job of yours is in hexham, right
23:55:23 <fizzie> I think I mentioned it was in London. (Also I *still* don't quite have the contract signed, which is slightly unnerving.)
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