00:00:05 where: i have doubts that there ever was an implementation. 00:01:15 digerati's other languages GodScript and Genome aren't implemented either. 00:04:05 int-e: i think fungot has doubts 00:04:06 @ping 00:04:06 pong 00:04:06 oerjan: ( ( mm)) the one that's next month in rawley but they just gave me a 00:04:18 thought i was going to ping out there 00:04:36 `botsnack 00:04:36 ​>:-D 00:04:41 !botsnack 00:04:43 ​^_^ 00:04:49 ^botsnack 00:04:59 ... 00:05:07 -!- where has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 00:05:11 hm do none of the bots respond to /ping 00:05:42 !botsnack 00:05:42 ​^_^ 00:05:49 apparently not 00:12:50 You know, it's never quite made sense to me that you can discover the Euclidean distance formula from simple axioms or whatever. 00:13:39 Like, we can define distance however we want. Manhattan distance, that other kind of distance, D&D distance, whatever. What makes Euclidean distance so special? 00:15:39 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 00:16:49 It has... economic significance 00:17:47 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 00:18:13 Ooh, I just remembered that one lovely proof of the Pythagorean theorem. 00:18:45 you make it sound like there is only one lovely one... 00:19:17 What would D&D distance be? 00:19:18 The determiner "that one" doesn't imply uniqueness. 00:19:45 tswett: It could be read that way, though. 00:20:03 it could also be read as a scarring indictment of nazi economic policy 00:20:46 tswett: To be fair, all "sound" in that text message is obviously my own. 00:21:14 FireFly: it's defined for lattice points. The distance between (0, 0) and (a, b), where 0 ≤ a ≤ b, is floor((3/2) * a + (b - a)). 00:21:21 scathing, that's the word, scathing 00:21:35 Which I guess is the same as floor(a / 2 + b). 00:21:42 Anyway, that one proof. 00:22:03 Suppose you have some triangle ABC. Let T(x) be the area of a triangle similar to ABC whose hypotenuse has length x. 00:22:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:22:30 T(c) is just the area of triangle ABC. 00:23:42 T(a) is the area of triangle ADC, where D is the projection of C onto line AB. 00:23:54 T(b) is the area of triangle DBC. 00:24:26 Since triangle ABC is the disjoint union of triangles ADC and DBC, T(a) + T(b) = T(c). 00:24:42 Finally, T(x) is proportional to x^2. 00:24:48 me, i just draw squares 00:24:58 So, essentially: 00:25:35 "You know how the Pythagorean theorem is usually illustrated using three squares? Instead, illustrate it using triangles similar to the original triangle. It starts to look kind of obvious." 00:31:34 -!- conehead has quit (Excess Flood). 00:32:33 -!- conehead has joined. 00:32:53 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 00:35:33 -!- idris-bot has joined. 00:37:06 tswett: I saw it demonstrated using a weird blobby shape 00:41:07 There are many different proof of Pythagorean theorem. 00:44:06 wrong 00:44:59 the plural of proof is preef. 00:46:10 I have seen many different ones, including the one I made up while resting on the couch. 00:46:12 no, it's profess. As in professor. 00:46:23 FUll of truths those guys. 00:53:57 ^ 00:54:03 /_\ 00:54:15 you found the master sword 00:55:19 you've found a triangle with a slightly displaced apex 00:55:40 http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130701021023/disney/images/5/52/Opening_bill_transparent.png 00:55:44 isn't that what a sword boils down to 00:59:28 lifthrasiir: maybe it's that pyramid from discworld 01:00:09 I guess so, just wanted to suggest the (in)flexibility of ASCII approximation 01:06:58 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:10:29 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:11:22 Apparently, until 5 days ago, a website I often go on was using PHP4 01:11:46 Make that a week ago, actually 01:12:11 -!- centrinia has joined. 01:13:34 I would like SQLite extension to do such things as manipulating MIDI files, manipulating a file system, and for accessing weather data on the internet, astronomical data, news report, and others 01:14:24 And a pony? 01:15:25 A pony? What? 01:15:58 A pony is seen as something desirable but difficult to acquire. 01:16:22 pikhq is suggesting that, as long as you already want all those other things, you might as well add a pony to the list. 01:16:29 Well, I don't need a pony, but maybe you do. 01:16:38 Thanks, shachaf. 01:16:42 Doesn't Yahoo have something for ... Internet stuff? 01:16:48 npikhq 01:17:02 "The YQL (Yahoo! Query Language) platform enables you to query, filter, and combine data across the web through a single interface. It exposes a SQL-like syntax that is both familiar to developers and expressive enough for getting the right data." 01:17:15 ponies are tasty. their meat is very lean and goes well in hamburgers. 01:17:43 I guess that's not an SQLite extension though 01:17:46 I wanted to access it through SQLite command line interface though rather than a web browser, and to be able to use it with SQLite database files 01:18:14 Wonder if you could make a custom source of data that when manipulated via YQL, does stuff to some SQLite db file 01:18:31 boily: I'll take your word for it for now -- I'm pretty sure there's no good source here. 01:22:17 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:24:52 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 346 seconds). 01:28:43 -!- foobarbaz has joined. 01:30:09 -!- erdic has joined. 01:30:14 -!- erdic has quit (Changing host). 01:30:14 -!- erdic has joined. 01:30:43 -!- foobarbaz has quit (Client Quit). 01:38:42 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:41:06 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:45:21 -!- erdic has joined. 01:45:27 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 01:48:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: EPIGENETIC CHICKEN). 01:51:31 -!- erdic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:56:32 -!- scounder has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:57:19 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 257 seconds). 01:59:18 [wiki] [[User:Oj742]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40849 * Oj742 * (+73) 02:01:36 int-e: I wanted to @tell but lambdabot is gone. :-( 02:02:32 hmmm. 02:03:24 -!- erdic has joined. 02:05:15 provider says "Troubleshooting some network issues." 02:08:17 -!- quintopia has joined. 02:10:49 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:10:49 -!- CADD_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:11:07 -!- CADD has joined. 02:11:08 -!- quintopia has joined. 02:13:05 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 02:13:05 int-e: I @told someone something and then lambdabot quit with Excess Flood. 02:13:11 How likely is it that it actually went through? 02:13:25 I have no clue. 02:15:35 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:15:40 -!- AndoDaan_ has changed nick to AndoDaan. 02:16:50 -!- lambdabot has joined. 02:17:55 @bot 02:17:56 :) 02:19:06 -!- scounder has joined. 02:29:38 -!- shikhin has joined. 02:32:52 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:22:35 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: restart). 03:28:24 -!- Bike has joined. 03:34:41 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:55:16 [wiki] [[MNNBFSL]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40850 * AndoDaan * (+2032) Basic page creation. 03:59:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:01:00 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40851&oldid=40837 * AndoDaan * (+14) Added MNNBFSL 04:04:04 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:26:30 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:29:20 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:34:39 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 04:34:54 -!- lambdabot has joined. 05:32:16 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:34:18 -!- FreeFull has joined. 05:39:39 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 05:55:17 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:55:53 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:14:30 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:43:50 -!- ashi has joined. 06:45:10 -!- ashi has left ("Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients"). 07:19:30 -!- conehead has quit (Excess Flood). 07:26:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:29:11 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:29:12 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 07:40:18 -!- nyuszika7h_ has changed nick to nyuszika7h. 07:48:22 -!- jameseb- has joined. 07:49:40 -!- jameseb has quit (*.net *.split). 08:30:39 -!- drdanmaku has quit. 09:01:01 How much do you like of these kind of thing? http://principiadiscordia.com/memebombs/?action=list&o=random&m=100 09:03:32 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:10:38 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:15:37 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 09:37:21 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:39:38 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:57:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:01:09 -!- augur has joined. 10:02:02 -!- FreeFull has joined. 10:02:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:06:40 -!- jameseb- has changed nick to jameseb. 10:09:09 -!- centrinia has joined. 10:17:20 -!- mosasaur has joined. 10:17:43 `relcome mosasaur 10:17:44 ​mosasaur: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 10:19:03 thanks, but I was actually looking for stuff about Ouspensky and Gurdjieff ... 10:19:44 #esoteric at irc.dal.net is empty 10:22:09 but #occult has one dude 10:27:02 maybe efnet 12 users 10:34:41 -!- mosasaur has left. 10:42:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:42:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:43:38 Let's see if Wikipedia has it 10:44:21 Yes, of course they do. 10:54:25 -!- viznut_ has changed nick to viznut. 10:55:41 -!- Melvar has joined. 10:59:51 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 11:00:01 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523\unfoog. 11:01:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:17:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:18:08 [wiki] [[Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40852&oldid=40833 * TomPN * (+0) /* Array and pointer */ 11:22:44 -!- boily has joined. 11:27:07 hemsktmyckethejly 11:29:08 according to swedish wikipedia, the composers refused a request by bbc to have that translated into english 11:29:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:32:31 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:37:23 boerjan matin! 11:37:38 @massages-loud 11:37:38 shachaf said 9h 30m 21s ago: http://chu.stanford.edu/ might be a better introduction to Chu spaces than Wikipedia. 11:37:39 shachaf said 9h 18m 37s ago: http://chu.stanford.edu/ might be a better introduction to Chu spaces than Wikipedia. 11:38:10 schellochellof. I was confused by the wikipédiarticle. this may help me more. 11:38:44 oerjan: I think it's better if the hemicketskt remains incomprehensible. 11:40:44 boily: I guess lambdabot did get the message the first time. 11:42:01 clearly lambdabot needs a drastically reduced pH 11:42:55 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523\unfoog. 11:43:44 boily: I don't know what hilight I need to match the things you do to my nick. 11:43:58 I suspect it's hopeless. 11:44:02 The real question is where that first c came from. 11:44:07 muah ah ah. 11:44:19 People keep thinking "schachaf" for whatever reason. 11:44:32 muscle memory? German invasion? 11:46:40 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:48:26 argh noisy construction machine 11:52:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:52:56 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:56:21 -!- idris-bot has joined. 12:00:09 oerjan: what is being constructed? 12:01:02 [wiki] [[User talk:Bataais]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40853&oldid=40848 * Bataais * (-28) Undo revision 40848 by [[Special:Contributions/Bataais|Bataais]] ([[User talk:Bataais|talk]]) 12:02:40 i believe the pavement just outside my apartment, after they digged it up _again_ to search for a leak down to the parking cellar complex which they've been spending a year to try to plug 12:04:43 [wiki] [[Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40854&oldid=40852 * TomPN * (+11) /* Loops */ 12:05:52 and there they put it on again 12:06:48 An "ordinary" ball is called a 3-ball, but its boundary is called a 2-sphere? Why? 12:07:03 it's some kind of sand compactor, so i hope that means they'll soon be laying down the asphalt and actually declare it finished 12:07:19 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40855 * TomPN * (+5758) Created page with "'''Quantum Dimensions''' is an adaptation of [[Dimensions]], where the program operates on qubits instead of numbers. Quantum Dimensions was invented in 2014 by Tom Price-Nich..." 12:07:22 shachaf: because that's the dimension of the sets in question 12:07:38 Ah, I see. 12:07:51 I guess that should be obvious in retrospect. 12:08:09 [wiki] [[Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40856&oldid=40854 * TomPN * (+77) /* See also */ 12:08:22 [wiki] [[Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40857&oldid=40856 * TomPN * (+1) /* See also */ 12:08:34 shachaf: you can imagine there's some more convoluted reason and this is just after-the-fact rationalization if that helps 12:08:40 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40858&oldid=40855 * TomPN * (+1) /* See also */ 12:08:43 Especially with the wiki activity going on. 12:09:17 [wiki] [[Musical notes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40859&oldid=40828 * TomPN * (+78) /* See also */ 12:09:29 [wiki] [[Musical notes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40860&oldid=40859 * TomPN * (+0) /* See also */ 12:09:37 [wiki] [[Musical notes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40861&oldid=40860 * TomPN * (+0) /* See also */ 12:09:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:10:06 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:10:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 12:10:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:10:28 [wiki] [[User talk:TomPN]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40862&oldid=40829 * TomPN * (+34) /* Dimensions */ 12:10:39 [wiki] [[User talk:TomPN]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40863&oldid=40862 * TomPN * (+1) /* Other esolangs */ 12:10:40 "has dimension n" just means that each point has a neighborhood homeomorphic to R^n? 12:11:57 shachaf: there are several definitions of dimension, many of which tend to agree for manifolds 12:12:29 What if you don't have a manifold? 12:15:36 i am somewhat partial to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension#Lebesgue_covering_dimension since i've actually published articles where that was relevant 12:15:53 that's pretty general 12:16:23 the inductive dimensions in the next section may be easier intuitively, though. 12:16:59 Oh, I remember reading an intuition about that in http://xorshammer.com/2011/07/09/a-logical-interpretation-of-some-bits-of-topology/ 12:17:17 and hausdorff dimension (which requires a metric) is also cool because fractals 12:19:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MASKED CHICKEN). 12:20:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:20:08 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 12:20:15 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Changing host). 12:20:15 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 12:22:06 lebesgue covering dimension 1 is cool because the refined covering essentially splits into a bipartite graph of open and closed sets 12:23:01 which allows an easy proof that the measures we were studying were trivial (which here means they were lebesgue measures) on those spaces 12:24:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:24:31 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:24:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 12:24:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:25:05 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:37:53 oerjan: I should learn all these things properly. :-( 12:39:05 good, good 12:39:34 how should i do that 12:40:04 don't ask me i never did it properly hth 12:40:30 does that mean you learned all of it rather than a proper subset of it 12:40:34 blargh. I forgot how my own variable declarations are supposed to work. 12:40:55 no, it mean i never had a proper course and picked up pieces in a haphazard way. 12:40:58 *+s 12:41:04 J_Arcane: int foo = 1; 12:42:00 what's a good haphazard way twh 12:43:21 currently working on this https://github.com/jarcane/heresy, but I've forgotten which definition of LET I decided to run with. 12:44:38 shachaf: find a math library and spend time in it 12:44:47 (reading) 12:48:56 you gotta read, too? 12:49:31 surprise! 12:58:24 -!- scarf has joined. 12:58:29 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523\unfoog. 12:58:55 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:00:18 Are there any dangers to consider if one were to host an irc bot from his or her own computer? 13:00:45 Depends what the bot can do? 13:01:05 AndoDaan: the same dangers as exposing any service to the internet 13:01:27 Which are legion, I imagine. 13:01:37 Yes. 13:01:44 if your code deals with any kind of external resource like the filesystem or other network services and exposes functionality based on that, you should be running it in some kind of sandbox at the very least 13:01:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:01:56 if it's just, like, brainfuck code hooked up to netcat you should be fine 13:02:14 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit (Disconnected by services). 13:02:17 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523\unfoog. 13:02:28 The frequency of bogus connects try-racket.org blocks is measured in *seconds*. Such is ye olde internets. 13:02:40 It'd be more like that, just basic language interpretation. 13:03:42 AndoDaan: if the language doesn't have any more IO than brainfuck then you should be fine. of course you can't rule out compromise of the IRC account (like, if someone can make you send \r\nPRIVMSG Nickserv :set password owned) 13:03:43 And I suppose some language are safer to implement a bot on than others. 13:03:51 (so you should be sanitising even that IO) 13:03:52 elliott: well if it's a bf implementation that doesn't check array boundary, you're _theoretically_ in trouble right? 13:04:02 Right. 13:05:14 Hmm. Array boundries. So like, where I store the the value on the bf data tape could be compromised? 13:05:24 If i'm not careful, i mean. 13:05:31 oerjan: I was assuming a memory-safe language 13:05:36 (I'm usually not.) 13:05:42 AndoDaan: i mean if they can move the tape pointer out of bounds 13:05:49 if you're considering exposing code written in a memory-unsafe language to the network, consider: don't 13:05:57 elliott: OKAY 13:06:10 I'm serious. humans aren't good enough to do that kind of thing. 13:06:12 I notice that's possible with the anarchy golf version of BF. 13:06:15 at least not if you can't afford a professional audit. 13:06:25 AndoDaan: I think that's a weird intentional feature rather than an exploit, where you can read your own code 13:06:37 buffer overflow overflows. ;) 13:06:43 at least I hope so 13:06:54 AndoDaan: what language are you using to write the bot/interpreter? 13:07:03 Hmm, didn't consider that. Seems to such the fun out of BF golf though. 13:07:26 Lua... I hate it, but I'm not proficiant in anything else yet. 13:07:45 no need to worry about array bounds, then 13:07:56 Really, I should knuckle down and finish learning python. 13:08:02 AndoDaan: haskell beckons you ... 13:08:07 AndoDaan: If you know Lua, Python's trivial to pick up. Try the Codecademy course. 13:08:09 * oerjan cackles evilly 13:09:13 if you know lua python will be so boring :p 13:09:59 It is. I mean, I force myself to start with the basic, but my mind soons wanders after a while. 13:10:26 I think i'm 25 percent done with the khan code academy lessons of python. 13:10:39 maybe 52 percent. near there. 13:10:51 honestly, if you don't feel like you're getting anything out of it I'd suggest learning a language less similar to lua than python 13:11:12 Started C++ a week ago. Ha. 13:11:20 ok, maybe not that dissimilar 13:11:27 ^ 13:12:53 I feel like I could probably fit good C++ knowledge and experience in my head if I tried now, after ten years of programming in a great many languages. that definitely wasn't the case, like, six years ago :p 13:13:01 it's a very complex behemoth of a language 13:14:16 (I've never actually sat down to probably learn it, though. I know about the design issues at play and have a good sense for why the language is like how it is, but honestly I'm more experienced in C++ template metaprogramming than C++ itself...) 13:16:06 I saw a C++ template when I was looking at the deadfish implementations. What is a c++ template?' 13:17:02 that was elliott's 13:17:11 a C++ template's basically a function or class (or possibly other things?) where you can substitute out some of the identifiers, normally for types or integers 13:17:23 Um, I'm not sure how to justify them if you're only experienced with dynamically-typed languages 13:17:29 e.g. one of the simplest examples is "template T id(T& x) {return x;}" 13:17:37 but they're basically compile-time metaprogramming, used for type-generic (and otherwise) programming in C++ 13:17:50 then, for instance, id would be "char id (char& x) {return x;}" 13:17:51 (such as implementing a generic vector type that you can instantiate to be a vector of ints, or of strings, or such) 13:17:57 but they're... rather hideously powerful in C++ 13:18:01 to the point where you can implement deadfish in them 13:18:29 elliott: I've heard that when templates were being designed, someone noticed early on that they were TC and mentioned it to Stroustrup 13:18:41 and he told them he was happy for them to stay that way 13:18:52 I think they were expecting him to change it to be sub-TC 13:18:59 ais523\unfoog: I thought everyone was surprised it turns out they accidentally implemented the world's most bizarre functional programming language 13:19:21 elliott: yes but they found out very early on, when it wasn't too late to change 13:19:32 heh 13:19:48 just nerfing templates doesn't seem that compelling 13:19:56 as opposed to entirely replacing them with something less horrible 13:20:16 they work pretty well in simple cases, except that I sometimes have trouble working out where you're meant to put the template argument 13:20:23 You'd just end up with java 13:20:51 also, has anyone done `olist yet? just noticed there are only 5 pages of discussion 13:21:00 so I might have been the first here to notice 13:21:11 Jafet: I don't think java is reasonable C++, no 13:21:33 I don't think it satisfies very many of C++'s goals 13:21:58 That is, generics are nerf foam templates 13:22:00 I don't think Java was trying to be C++ 13:23:10 right, generics are boxing hell though, like the rest of java 13:23:59 one thing that amuses me is how many languages leave out generics because they think they're complicated and they don't need them 13:24:10 and then end up having to add them later 13:24:13 Before java 8 it was even sillier. The type system was not actually strong enough to express generic programming without type casts 13:24:34 Hm, they changed that in Java 8? 13:24:44 it still doesn't understand {co,contra}variance, right? 13:25:12 elliott: Java's had variance annotations for ages 13:25:16 List 13:25:19 List * List 13:25:27 ais523\unfoog: List is still broken right, though? 13:25:30 *broken, right, 13:25:32 elliott: List is invariant 13:25:43 It does now, but most java programmers don't and never will 13:25:52 ais523\unfoog: is it still possible to use List as List and then push a Cat to it 13:26:02 I really can't imagine java would break compatibility with that brokenness 13:26:14 (*ArrayList, whatever) 13:26:26 elliott: oh, I think there might be variance annotations on the accessors, but they should still prevent that 13:26:38 bleh, the JDK isn't even in my browser autocomplete any more? 13:26:42 how long have I been not teaching Java? 13:26:48 it was definitely possible in the past, since this is an infamous fundamental java brokenness 13:26:56 if they broke compatibility to fix it that would be really good but I'd be very surprised 13:27:26 elliott: it was possible to do that with /arrays/ 13:27:55 hmm 13:28:16 right 13:28:30 arrays are still broken though, yeah? 13:28:34 elliott: looking at this, the bulk operations all seem to have variance annotations 13:28:38 and yes, arrays are still broken 13:28:49 default void sort(Comparator c) 13:28:50 and yeah -- I just misremembered the problem, you are right 13:29:02 arrays breaking the type system is still pretty bad though :p 13:29:27 default Spliterator spliterator() 13:29:28 wtf 13:29:48 what a great word 13:29:57 "Operations using a Spliterator that cannot split, or does so in a highly imbalanced or inefficient manner, are unlikely to benefit from parallelism." 13:30:01 I'll obspliterate you 13:30:10 what's the point of a spliterator that can't split? 13:30:16 it can erate 13:31:57 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:32:10 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40864&oldid=40858 * TomPN * (+62) /* def function */ 13:32:18 -!- ais523\unfoog has joined. 13:32:25 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40865&oldid=40864 * TomPN * (+2) /* def function */ 13:32:47 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40866&oldid=40865 * TomPN * (-6) /* def function */ 13:33:07 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40867&oldid=40866 * TomPN * (+2) /* def function */ 13:33:37 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40868&oldid=40867 * TomPN * (-26) /* def function */ 13:34:05 ais523\unfoog: an `olist was done yesterday 13:34:32 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40869&oldid=40868 * TomPN * (+30) /* def function */ 13:34:45 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40870&oldid=40869 * TomPN * (+2) /* def function */ 13:34:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:35:06 oh 13:35:06 oh no 13:35:06 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:35:06 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523\unfoog. 13:35:14 [13:33] elliott: are you going to warn me not to read that? 13:35:16 [13:33] I'm worried about what I'll find if I do 13:35:18 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40871&oldid=40870 * TomPN * (+13) /* def function */ 13:35:26 ais523\unfoog: not to read what? 13:35:29 oh, quantum dimensions? 13:35:36 I'm sure it's splendid 13:37:13 also, that's the second time I've been DCed, reconnected, then seen lines I've said earlier 13:37:13 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit (Excess Flood). 13:37:40 -!- ais523\unfoog has joined. 13:41:04 -!- DeadFishBot has joined. 13:41:11 DeadFishBot: help 13:41:15 !df iiiiso 13:41:16 what's that thing's prefix? 13:41:21 no help yet. 13:41:28 also, it should have said 16 13:41:33 !df iiio 13:41:39 OK, I'm reading quantum dimensions 13:41:45 that fish seems dead 13:41:55 hmm, that should have done something. 13:42:26 !die 13:42:33 won't listen at all. 13:42:56 oh, hmm 13:43:21 unlike other "quantum" esolangs, this is basically a stupid syntax for a perfectly ordinary quantum programming language 13:43:30 -!- DeadFishBot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:43:53 except that the only way to do loops involves I/O 13:44:28 just need to shor it up a bit 13:46:10 quantum deadfish can do shor's algorithm pretty easily 13:46:17 err, quantum dimensions 13:46:31 by basically being just a syntax encoding 13:46:57 `olist 967 13:46:58 olist 967: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 13:47:33 quantum deadfish sounds amazing 13:47:36 quantum deadfish wouldn't be any more powerful than regular deadfish, would it? 13:47:40 it'd be quantum 13:47:46 Well, yes 13:47:47 so it could solve P = NP. 13:47:52 in constant time. 13:48:00 * elliott braces for swatting 13:48:33 I don't think quantum computers can solve P=NP in constant time 13:48:38 I wonder where oerjan put the swatter 13:49:26 ais523\unfoog: I SAID THERE'D BEEN AN `OLIST 13:49:30 HTH 13:49:35 oerjan: but I was DCed and couldn't see you 13:49:38 also I checked today's logs 13:50:14 which was bad since it was done yesterday 13:51:16 * oerjan swats elliott -----### 13:51:23 sorry, was a bit backlogged 13:51:27 in constant time. 13:51:43 thanks, little do you know I'm a masochist and will continue stating falsehoods to promote more swatting 13:52:05 fiendish 13:52:26 i guess constant time is taking it one step further than the usual lie 13:52:55 oh not to mention the confusion of "solving P = NP" 13:53:03 oerjan: also I very specifically said "solving P = NP" -- yes :p 13:53:12 you know, actually that was a thing of beauty 13:53:13 it produces a proof that P = NP, in constant time, by existing. 13:53:23 -!- DeadFishBot has joined. 13:53:31 !df iiiiio 13:53:37 So I am presented with a strange question: Do I make this bastard spawn of Scheme and BASIC pure-functional or not ... 13:53:40 Fi! 13:54:08 Why would DeadFishBot work in a channel I made, but not here? 13:54:13 J_Arcane: yes 13:54:25 AndoDaan: are you matching on the name of that channel? 13:54:35 oerjan: IT would be a lot easier than trying to solve the LET name conflict between the two. 13:54:49 J_Arcane: fancy 13:55:27 That's probably it, but the join channel is given by argv 13:55:37 J_Arcane: your strange capitalization inspires me to tell you to just call one of them IT 13:56:19 J_Arcane: also you know LET is optional in most basics right 13:56:37 !rd6 13:56:42 J_Arcane: neither scheme or basic is purely functional, so yes. 13:56:47 *nor, I suppose. 13:56:50 oerjan: I actually haven't 100% decided on a capitalization rule. And yeah, LET has been basically optional since slightly after Dartmouth BASIC. 13:56:59 alright. 13:57:12 -!- DeadFishBot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:57:17 J_Arcane: you could distinguish them by including = in the basic one, maybe? 13:57:21 But otherwise BASIC doesn't have a strict assignment/definition command besides just the =. 13:58:55 -!- DeadFishBot has joined. 13:58:57 oerjan: I was thinking about overloading DEF into DEF FN and DEF VAR; it's a Lisp-1 so it's purely a syntax shortcut either way (I considered doing this in CL so I could match the split namespace and have an excuse to use GOSUB, but Racket macros are sooo flexible.) 13:58:57 !df iiiio 13:59:02 !die 13:59:17 -!- DeadFishBot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:59:42 well it died 13:59:48 :D 14:00:00 Yeah, but I had to slap him from over here. 14:00:07 AndoDaan: you know you'll have to paste the code soon if this continues 14:00:53 Gonna take a step back, and (give up) go through the code. 14:01:08 J_Arcane: hm in scheme the DEF FN is just distinguished by putting the FN inside a list... 14:01:28 are you not using parentheses, in which case this might be more like a LOGO than a scheme 14:02:01 heck you might consider LOGO to _be_ a bastard child of scheme and basic 14:02:06 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:02:07 vaguely. 14:02:10 oerjan: Yeah, I also thought of that too. If I make lambda into fn like Clojure does, then essentially you can just do DEF name FN (args), which is a bit backwards but works. 14:02:54 oerjan: Oh there's direct relationship between LOGO and Lisp IIRC, it just doesn't show up at the basic levels. But no, I'm using S-expressions, because I haven't learned how to write reader macros yet. 14:03:45 -!- heroux has joined. 14:04:22 mhm 14:11:41 -!- DeadFishBot has joined. 14:11:44 !df iiiiioso 14:11:44 -!- DeadFishBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:11:56 Weird. 14:13:06 -!- DeadFishBot has joined. 14:13:08 !df iiiiioso 14:13:08 -!- DeadFishBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:13:14 I give up. 14:15:36 paste, i said 14:15:46 -!- DeadFishBot has joined. 14:15:50 !df iiisso 14:15:51 -!- DeadFishBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:15:57 DAMMIT. 14:16:11 I can't. I have to clean up my code first. 14:16:33 OKAY 14:16:48 The bot is basically a frankenstein's monster. 14:17:46 `? AndoDaan 14:17:46 AndoDaan? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:17:57 But thanks for the offer. Idk, I guess I should work on my code shiness. 14:18:07 Show off. 14:18:34 `help how do i build an irc bot? 14:18:34 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 14:18:43 that's no help. 14:23:24 @faq can Haskell help me build an IRC bot? 14:23:25 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ 14:23:27 öh 14:23:30 right 14:23:33 eh* 14:23:39 It got replaced 14:23:40 oh well 14:23:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:24:11 @hoogle Can Haskell help me build an irc bot? 14:24:12 Parse error: 14:24:12 Can Haskell help me build an irc bot? 14:24:12 ^ 14:24:20 close enough. 14:24:51 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:24:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:25:05 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523\unfoog. 14:25:08 @help faq 14:25:09 faq. Link to FAQ on wiki. 14:25:52 -!- monotone has quit (Quit: Rebooting server). 14:28:07 -!- monotone has joined. 14:29:47 -!- AndoDaan has quit. 14:30:02 -!- shikhout has joined. 14:33:13 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:40:18 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 15:09:16 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:10:33 -!- nycs has joined. 15:13:50 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:14:35 AndoDaan: if that helps, here are some basics: on initial connection, you send "NICK " and "USER * * :". obviously, don't include <>. username is this part: foo (~bar@baz.com). real name is what shows up next to the hostname in whois usually, can be anything you like. 15:14:52 on receiving a message that starts with "PING", send the message back with "PING" replaced by "PONG". 15:15:17 recv: "PING foo", send: "PONG foo" | recv: "PING :foo bar", send: "PONG :foo bar" 15:15:18 the second and third fields in a USER command can be pretty much anything 15:15:20 yeah 15:15:34 they're ignored by modern ircds 15:15:39 they're meant to be details of the connection you're using, but the other end ignores them because it'd be a security risk to honour them 15:16:55 usually if the second space-separated token of the message is "376", that means "End of /MOTD command" - this is usually where you auto-join channels and such, unless you need to identify to nickserv. 15:17:39 ais523\unfoog: not in all RFCs 15:17:49 one RFC changed it to, be, uh, something or other and an initial umode, or something, I think 15:17:54 so yeah, total mess 15:18:03 haha, seriously? :-) 15:18:10 yeah 15:18:15 I think nobody cares about that updated RFC though? 15:18:24 I think the IRC 3.0 thing is based on the original RFC. 15:18:28 IRC is a mess. 15:18:31 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 15:18:48 nyuszika7h: is there any actual reason to wait for the end of the motd before sending JOINs? 15:19:50 elliott: some ircds will say "You are not registered" if you send the join too early 15:20:04 can be probably sent earlier like around 251 or what it was, but 376 is the most common 15:20:18 AndoDaan: theres an IRC bot written in haskell on the haskell-wiki 15:20:34 if you want to identify to nickserv, then either you should use SASL or if you have a cloak, on freenode and charybdis-based networks, 396 will work too 15:20:37 it - however - can only write to a single hardcoded channel 15:20:52 probably should catch only the *first* occurrence of 376 and 396 per connection 15:20:57 on freenode, you should just use PASS. 15:21:04 if not sasl 15:21:09 well 15:21:13 PASS actually just turns into a /msg nickserv 15:21:17 so unfortunately it doesn't do any better in terms of cloaks 15:21:21 Client-side certificates hth 15:21:33 but it's easier to send it at the start if you don't want to deal with, like, TLS and SASL and all that mess. careful about your deadfish IRC bot opsec 15:21:36 fizzie: they don't do much better either, until freenode implements SASL EXTERNAL :( 15:21:48 freenode does support client-side certificates, I believe? 15:21:51 it does 15:21:58 but, like, who cares. 15:22:00 but not SASL EXTERNAL, which identifies you early when using CertFP 15:22:11 !blsq_uptime 15:22:11 8d 55m 39s 15:22:19 oh, you can have a cloak failure with the certificate approach? 15:22:27 that justifies my lazy sticking with normal SASL 15:22:38 yeah you can still end up joining before cloaked 15:22:47 because nickserv handles identifying still 15:23:01 but regular SASL passwords are fine? 15:23:16 I mean, not that cloaks are life-and-death, but. 15:24:27 Oh, that's the silliest if true. I mean, certificate validation happens so early in the connection, it should just work. 15:24:51 Also I forgot to say "hello" from Tampere, I think there were some channelfolk living there. 15:33:54 elliott: SASL identifies you early, yeah, whatever mechanism you use 15:34:56 I use both SASL PLAIN and CertFP, so that I get automatically identified after services come back in case they split or something 15:35:24 five nines on your nickserv identification 15:35:26 Perhaps you should also add a script that polls for services every three minutes. 15:35:55 I guess there's no SLA for freenode. 15:36:11 I don't think freenode manage very many nines. 15:38:07 "Have them put a decimal point after the ninety nine and see how many nines they can tack on behind it." (From a book.) 15:50:36 -!- mihow has joined. 15:58:36 -!- vanila has joined. 15:58:41 hi 16:14:39 hi 16:14:57 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 16:23:39 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:28:37 !blsq "132"Pp 16:28:38 No output! 16:28:54 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 16:28:56 !blsq "132"Pp"123"{pPFi}m[ 16:28:57 {ERROR: Burlesque: (_+) Invalid arguments!} 16:29:01 !blsq "132"Pp"123"XX{pPFi}m[ 16:29:01 {ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arguments! "132" '1 ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Inval 16:29:07 !blsq "132"Pp"123"XX{pPfI}m[ 16:29:07 {ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arguments! "132" '1 ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Inval 16:29:15 !blsq "132"PppP 16:29:15 "132" 16:29:26 !blsq "132"Pp"123"XX{pPFi}m[ 16:29:26 {ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Invalid arguments! "132" '1 ERROR: Burlesque: (fi) Inval 16:29:29 !blsq "132"Pp"123"XX{pPjFi}m[ 16:29:29 {0 2 1} 16:29:42 !blsq "132"Pp"123"XX{pPjFi?i}m[ 16:29:42 {1 3 2} 16:30:25 !blsq "132"Pp"123"XX{pPjFi}m[ 16:30:25 {0 2 1} 16:30:53 !blsq "132"Pp"123"XX{pPjFi}m[2CO 16:30:53 {{0 2} {2 1}} 16:31:05 !blsq "132"Pp"123"XX{pPjFi}m[2CO{p^.<}m[ 16:31:05 {0 1} 16:31:56 !blsq "214365879"Pp"123456789"XX{pPjFi}m[2CO{p^.<}m[ 16:31:57 {1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0} 16:32:09 !blsq "214365879"Pp"123456789"XX{pPjFi}m[J2CO{p^.<}m[ 16:32:09 {1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0} 16:32:12 !blsq "214365879"Pp"123456789"XX{pPjFi}m[J2CO{p^.<}m[#s 16:32:12 {{1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0} {1 0 3 2 5 4 7 6 8}} 16:32:31 !blsq "214365879"Pp"123456789"XX{pPjFi}m[J2CO{p^.<}m[j2CO{p^.-}m[#s 16:32:32 {{-1 3 -1 3 -1 3 -1 2} {1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0}} 16:32:45 !blsq "214365879"Pp"123456789"XX{pPjFi}m[J2CO{p^.<}m[j2CO{^p.-}m[#s 16:32:45 {{1 -3 1 -3 1 -3 1 -2} {1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0}} 16:33:17 !blsq "214365879"Pp"123456789"XX{pPjFi}m[J2CO{p^.<}m[j2CO{^p.-ab?i}m[#s 16:33:17 {{2 4 2 4 2 4 2 3} {1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0}} 16:33:28 !blsq "214365879"Pp"123456789"XX{pPjFi}m[J2CO{p^.<}m[j2CO{^p.-ab?i}m[** 16:33:29 {1 2 0 4 1 2 0 4 1 2 0 4 1 2 0 3} 16:34:21 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 16:34:33 something like that 16:34:37 but that's way too ugly 16:34:43 need better approach 16:34:53 (leapfrogging) 16:49:43 my alternative approach seems far worse than the first i tried, and which i managed to shorten to tie int-e 16:49:52 (i suspect his approach is similar) 17:08:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:22:37 Okay... How do I subtract two elements in a block like {3 1} to give {2}? 17:23:19 nyuszika7h: Thanks, I'll have to check that. 17:24:02 oh and to send a message: PRIVMSG #channel :message 17:24:22 to join a channel, "JOIN #channel" 17:24:43 mroman: Could I possible use the haskell irc bot to call external (lua) code, while itself handles interacting with irc? 17:25:46 I think my faulty bot was only looking for PRIVMSGs, but even after I broaden what it recognizes, still nop. 17:28:22 it would be a lot simpler to just write the bot in lua 17:28:33 compared to adapting the haskell code for that and plugging everything together 17:30:03 I don't think I can pull off 'simple', but you're probably right. mroman was most likely just nudging me to learn Haskell. :) 17:31:09 I could take a look at your code? 17:31:59 I think I need an alternate naming style for predicate functions in Heresy; the scheme pred? style just doesn't feel very basic to me. 17:32:02 *BASIC 17:55:18 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 17:57:44 elliott: Thanks for the offer. I'm still kinda shy about my code. I'm just gonna try cleaing it up, and make sure I'm not missing something embarrassingly obvious. 17:58:16 you probably are, but won't notice until someone else points it out :p 17:58:18 that's how programming usually goes 17:58:48 I should buy a duck. 17:59:37 quack. 17:59:51 like, an actual duck 18:00:00 10x better than the rubberised equivalent for debugging 18:00:42 And if doesn't work out... well that would be dinner sorted. 18:00:46 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:00:57 -!- ais523\unfoog has joined. 18:05:09 -!- DTSCode has changed nick to dts. 18:05:12 -!- conehead has joined. 18:05:21 -!- conehead has quit (Changing host). 18:05:21 -!- conehead has joined. 18:05:33 -!- dts has changed nick to DTSCode. 18:13:48 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:13:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:15:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:15:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:18:14 -!- nycs has joined. 18:19:17 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:26:05 oh actually it seems that lambdabot got off lightly 18 hours ago. the provider hat trouble with a switch and half of the servers were unreachable for 3 hours and more instead of 50 minutes. 18:32:11 `` ls 18:32:12 ​:-( \ 113500 \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ etc \ factor \ head \ hej \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test.c \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 18:54:20 ais523: I'd already olisted. 18:54:33 * shachaf considers giving olist state. 18:54:47 bleh, no matter how much trouble I go to to verify the absence of past olists 18:55:00 they frequently seem to have have happened 18:58:20 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:04:03 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:07:16 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:17:42 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 19:28:27 [wiki] [[Portal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40872&oldid=40245 * 152.26.69.32 * (+0) /* Instructions */ learn to count, silly! 19:31:36 what the heck? there's now a third one? 19:33:07 oh no, it just got worse 19:33:18 HackEgo doesn't have access to logs anymore, right? 19:34:22 Are cell based data structures one and the same as tape base data structures? 19:34:35 shachaf: right, the logs are no longer in its filesystem 19:34:48 so you'd have to get `olist to update a file itself 19:37:08 AndoDaan: I think so, although "cell-based" could also apply if you had more than 1 dimension 19:37:10 say, 52 19:38:04 52? 19:38:35 Hmm, and I suppose Cells can also indicate how the code is stored. So not soley to do with data. 19:38:54 [wiki] [[Hello++]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40873&oldid=38253 * 86.148.171.225 * (-145) 19:38:55 `` printf "%c" 33 19:38:56 3 19:39:21 wait ... 19:39:35 `` printf "%d" 33 19:39:35 33 19:40:00 shouldn't the first one be an exclamation mark... 19:40:19 aaah. 19:40:21 33 is the ascii value of ! 19:40:33 `` printf "%c" ABC 19:40:34 A 19:40:45 not what I wanted, but ok 19:40:47 one character byte. 19:41:11 I wanted C semantics, where the argument has int type. 19:42:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:42:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:43:24 `` printf "%c" $'\x21' 19:43:25 ​! 19:43:31 tmnh 19:44:12 `` python -c 'print "%c"%33' 19:44:12 ​! 19:44:31 `` python -c 'print "%c"%387' 19:44:32 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "", line 1, in \ OverflowError: unsigned byte integer is greater than maximum 19:44:33 `` python -c 'print "%c"%38' 19:44:33 ​& 19:44:56 Really, unsigned byte integer? 19:45:12 the "Portal" example makes no sense. 19:45:30 `` python -c 'print u"%c"%387' 19:45:32 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "", line 1, in \ UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u0183' in position 0: ordinal not in range(128) 19:45:42 What a scow. 19:46:29 I think that each 'o' invocation is supposed to reverse the direction of execution... but as o+++++]]]]]o is executed in reverse, the right o "portal" is moved to the right before any of the "+" are executed. *mumbles* 19:48:06 so let's see what the interpreter actually does :/ 19:50:49 So apparently what actually happens is that the second o transfers control back to the first. "Move the pointer to the other o portal" is an awful description. 19:51:49 -!- ais523 has quit. 19:52:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:56:59 [wiki] [[Portal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40874&oldid=40872 * 213.162.68.192 * (+51) clarify 'o' behavior 19:58:35 [wiki] [[Portal 2]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40875&oldid=40256 * 213.162.68.192 * (-1) What was this about counting? 20:01:18 [wiki] [[Portal 2]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40876&oldid=40875 * 213.162.68.192 * (+102) Clarify 'o' and '0' 20:01:54 hmm, same captcha three times in a row. I though there were several? 20:02:19 *thought 20:05:26 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:11:19 -!- mihow has joined. 20:20:33 [wiki] [[Portal 2]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40877&oldid=40876 * 213.162.68.192 * (+107) /* Example */ indicate instruction pointer in trace 20:22:30 int-e: not any more 20:23:55 [wiki] [[Portal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40878&oldid=40874 * 213.162.68.192 * (+59) /* Example */ indicate instruction pointer in trace 20:25:36 (Hmm I tried to make the * red but there doesn't seem to be an easy way) 20:26:20 The problem is to replicate the style of a
 block, so that one can use markup inside.
20:26:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
20:26:31  int-e: The current thought is that if there's only one captcha, it's easier to replace if/when it gets manually broken, and having only one does not seem to be any weaker.
20:26:52  fizzie: I'm not complaining, just wondering aloud :)
20:27:04  Thanks for the explanation.
20:27:29  I've still been idly thinking about trying out something in the http://thingelstad.com/stopping-mediawiki-spam-with-dynamic-questy-captchas/ vein, but the current setup seems to be more or less working.
20:27:32  int-e: can't you just use an explicit 
?
20:27:48  elliott: what's an explicit 
?
20:27:55  as in 
...markup...
20:27:59 as opposed to prefixing with spaces 20:28:12 elliott: that's what I'm using 20:28:31 (that's what the original author used, too) 20:28:47 oh, okay. I didn't look at the diff or anything. 20:29:08 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:29:57 -!- shikhin has joined. 20:32:54 hmm hmm. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Template_talk:Pre 20:36:54 https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=381506 20:37:01 ...uh. 20:37:04 why is that an eclipse bug? 20:37:12 oh! 20:37:15 my advice was the wrong way around 20:37:18 you should use spaces instead of
.
20:38:27  elliott: ah thanks, that will work.
20:40:46  [wiki] [[Portal]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40879&oldid=40878 * 213.162.68.192 * (+569) /* Example */ add some color
20:42:25  [wiki] [[Portal 2]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40880&oldid=40877 * 213.162.68.192 * (+1346) /* Example */ add some color
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20:56:27  [wiki] [[Len(language,encoding)]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40881 * 68.189.222.97 * (+2261) Created page with "'''Len(language,encoding)''' is not a single programming language, but rather a large family of related programming languages, inspired by [[Lenguage]] and [[Unary]].  == Synt..."
20:57:19 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
20:57:55  [wiki] [[Len(language,encoding)]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40882&oldid=40881 * 68.189.222.97 * (-1) mistake in ASCII to binary
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21:00:21  [wiki] [[Unary]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40883&oldid=40720 * 68.189.222.97 * (+29) /* See also */
21:00:56  [wiki] [[Len(language,encoding)]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40884&oldid=40882 * 68.189.222.97 * (-35) Not a brainfuck equivalent
21:02:07  [wiki] [[Lenguage]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40885&oldid=40781 * 68.189.222.97 * (+73) 
21:11:00  o
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21:58:48  groupon backed down from the gnome trademark... that was fast
21:58:57  what, already?
21:59:09  hmm, I wonder how much money Gnome raised before that happened?
21:59:45  ais523: http://www.gnome.org/groupon/ says 68629 USD so far (might not be accurate)
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22:09:33 -!- ais523 has quit.
22:15:45  Wow, *that* was fast.
22:15:59  It said something like $20k or $30k a very short time ago.
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22:51:21  [wiki] [[MNNBFSL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40886&oldid=40850 * BCompton * (+1) /* Commands */ Fixed typo
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23:20:55  hellørjan.
23:21:02  hjullello.
23:21:58  Hello
23:23:41  Tanelle!
23:23:59  (you're still the only one whom I address in the vocative case.)
23:24:58 * oerjan whistles innocently
23:25:32  boily: hellørjan could be vocative, it's definitely not 2. declination
23:25:38  Today I went to a seminar on Forth
23:25:52  oerjan: 2.?
23:26:08  Taneb: how was it?
23:26:19  boily, the seminar proved interesting
23:26:24  The language seems... odd
23:26:34  But an interesting odd
23:26:37  boily: -us/-um -i, the only one that generally has separate vocative iirc
23:26:43  (for the -us ones)
23:27:03  I wouldn't know for sure, I never got Latin imprinted into me during my schoolyears.
23:27:11  oerjan, some are also -er, eg. puer
23:27:16  oh right
23:27:28  IIRC, I went with the generic *PIE vocative ending.
23:27:34  boily: OKAY
23:27:47  Well, that's really suffixless in nom. and voc., but I think they're all -er
23:28:21 * boily feels complete now that he received his daily OKAYRJAN
23:29:06  one of the tidbits i recall about czech is that it has vocative -o ending for female names in -a
23:29:20  but none for masculine names iirc
23:29:31  (or possibly i just didn't pick that up)
23:32:11  norwegian is relatively light on case, but my dialect has a way of adding pronouns as articles before proper names that means vocative is slightly different, by leaving it out
23:32:34  hain ørjan vs. ørjan
23:33:25  (literally "he ørjan")
23:34:09  lui là, l'ørjan.
23:34:51  you can also inflect the pronoun for genitive
23:34:58  hainnes ørjan = ørjan's
23:35:09  Can anyone think of any implemented languages, other than ColorForth, where colour has semantics?
23:35:24  (text-based, I mean, so not like Piet)
23:35:45  oerjan: which is your dialect?
23:36:10  coppro: northern norwegian
23:36:20  oerjan: where do you livE?
23:36:22  *live
23:36:32  paintfuck+ /
23:37:09  farthest north I've been is Trondheim, though I think my favourite place I visited was Alesund
23:37:18  i live in trondheim, which may have the same dialect feature (i'm having trouble deciding just by remembering) but it's not the same dialect
23:37:20  (A with a ring; don't have an international keyboard atm)
23:37:35  ah, cool. Trondheim is also a pretty awesome place
23:40:05  i've also been to Alesund and Trondheim
23:40:21  AndoDaan, I don't think paintfuck+ has colours in the source code
23:41:00  trondheim dialect is considered trøndersk, not northern norwegian though, but several features apply to both regions
23:41:18  Oh. 
23:42:21  to distinguish trondheim dialect from any other in norway, ask them to talk about their car; it's the only dialect in which the word for car is feminine
23:43:39  (iirc bergen dialect, on the other hand, can be distinguished as the only which doesn't _have_ feminine)
23:43:53  *only one
23:45:13  What is it otherwise?
23:51:39  no:bil = en:car is usually masculine
23:52:12  definite form bilen, vs. trondheim bila
23:53:57  definite form?
23:54:41  I seem to have guessed the etymology.
23:55:47  Melvar: from automobile, right. iirc the word was supposedly chosen by a poll in a danish newspaper, and spread throughout scandinavia
23:56:11  whoa, like bus
23:56:25  shachaf: which is "buss" in norwegian
23:56:57  ("bus" in danish, which spells long consonants differently from norwegian)
23:58:08  shachaf: also, in norwegian nouns and adjectives are inflected according to number, gender (for adjectives, nouns just have them) and definiteness
23:58:33  bil, bilen, biler, bilene = car, the car, cars, the cars
23:59:00  although when an adjective gets added, we have an article in _addition_ to the suffix
23:59:22  What about case?