00:00:00 well we have -s suffix on nouns which is sort of genitive, but really the same as english 's so barely counts 00:00:15 la bus (/bys/): you're from Eastern or Northern Québec; le bus (/bʌs/): you're from Southern Québec or Ottawa. 00:00:56 oerjan: number or just plurality? 00:01:46 plurality 00:02:00 oerjan: How about that Swedish thing of having a possessive pronoun, an adjective (with the definite-style -a suffix) but no suffix? 00:02:15 fizzie: um example? 00:02:28 oerjan: In Hebrew a noun/adjective can be male/female and singular/plural. But articles work a little bit differently so I'm not sure I can directly compare. 00:02:35 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:02:43 You do put a definite article on every adjective. 00:02:50 So maybe it's the same sort of thing. 00:03:11 oerjan: Something like "den gamla bilen" but "min gamla bil". 00:03:15 fizzie: there are circumstances in which the definite suffix on nouns is dropped when the prefixed article is added; danish does this obligatory but neither norwegian nor swedish iirc 00:03:22 (And there are no indefinite articles.) 00:03:52 Verbs can be male/female, singular/plural, first/second/third person, and past/present/future tense. 00:04:11 Or imperative, which is its own tense, I guess, and always second person. 00:04:49 fizzie: oh right. yes norwegian does that too, although there are _two_ different options. "min gamle bil" or "den gamle bilen min". my dialect only allows the latter in most situtations, while conservative bokmål/oslo prefers the former 00:05:19 shachaf: Imperative is usually classified as a mood, not a tense. 00:05:20 oerjan: Good to see you've managed to complicate it more than the Swedes. 00:06:00 fizzie: my dialect has at least three ways of expressing possession 00:06:40 bil'n te hain ørjan, hain ørjan sin bil, bil'n hainnes ørjan 00:06:53 (i don't actually have a car) 00:07:22 I am coming to the conclusion that colorForth was an elaborate joke in the early 2000s 00:07:37 the first two also work with non-proper nouns 00:07:41 Melvar: I'm not sure the distinction is pointful here. 00:08:30 shachaf: oh hm we also have an indefinite article in the singular, like english does, and that's used more or less the same 00:08:48 shachaf: Well, I don’t know if you have any more moods; if you do, it probably is. 00:08:49 even if we also have noun inflection 00:09:07 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Hebrew_verb_conjugation 00:09:35 Taneb: I think colorForth falls in the unintentionally-esoteric language category. 00:09:53 boily: I do think that is an important category too, probably. 00:11:11 obviously languages with no articles are the best 00:11:26 shachaf: norwegian has lost all person suffixes on verbs, and never had gender. we still have past/present/imperative, pretty much like english (but we have no progressive forms) 00:11:35 shachaf: the lack of vowels disturbs me. without niqqud so many conjugations are written the same :/... 00:11:47 zzo38: most possibly. 00:11:54 boily: so compact 00:11:55 I think you should write an article, if there is no article. 00:12:14 日本語万歳! 00:12:22 generally our verbs are simpler than english ones, i think 00:12:41 while it's the other way with nounds and adjectives 00:12:45 *-d 00:12:56 boily: Indeed. 00:13:00 shachaf: I'm francophone. I'm used to an overabundance of unused letters. 00:13:06 In German, adjectives inflect for three levels of a definitenesslike distinction, but only certain combinations of gender and case have different forms. 00:13:34 Newspaper headlinese is one of those languages without articles. 00:13:37 pikhq: こんばんは!おひさしぶり 00:13:44 Area linguist shoots man, escapes police, flees scene. 00:14:02 Fortunately newspapers include articles directly below the headlines. 00:14:10 boily: Un, hisashiburi ne (IME nai, gomen) 00:16:53 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 00:17:46 “Linguist Shoots Man, Escapes Police, Flees Scene” should become the canonical headline when discussing languages. 00:18:56 One thing I have wanted to do is making a Japanese-style manga book that is written in English, but the title is written using Japanese writing and some of the signs in the picture also have some writing with Japanese, but, the main text is in English. 00:21:44 pikhq: 心配しないで(^_^) お元気ですか?何が新しいのか? 00:22:34 * Taneb goodnight 00:22:55 * boily waves Taneb a goodnightaneb 00:23:06 boily: Un, genki desu. Ima koso... ano sa. Atarashii mono wo oboeru no ga muzukashii ne. 00:24:20 そうですね?残念ですよ… 00:25:03 でも、おげんきはもっとも重要な 00:25:29 Now I have all of the Akagi manga up to 28 00:25:40 (I really ought to get back to having classes. my Japanese's getting way too rusty and corroded... 00:25:43 ) 00:25:52 (I hear ya, I have been slacking off myself.) 00:26:11 Darned work keeping me busy. :P 00:29:23 zzo38: the Akagies are in my backlog. meanwhile, I got the complete Slam Dunk. 00:46:27 boily: That one I don't know. But, in this most recent Akagi, he manages to do something that hasn't been done before even though I have predicted it (kind of). If you read it, then you can see... 00:49:27 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:08:26 I just watched the first episode of Baccano. it's going to be an interesting series... 01:08:37 it's goood 01:09:44 non-linear Gravity's Rainbow in book form, non-linear Baccano in anime form... 01:09:56 there should be a non-linear boardgame out there to complete that. 01:10:09 (does Red November count?) 01:20:31 boily: Time Agent? 01:26:35 “Or rather, that their race was always on top.” I think it fits the bill. 01:42:06 it always bothers me that I can read Japanese (somehow) but cannot write in that 02:03:17 I am not very good reading/writing Japanese, but I can a little bit, at least. 02:12:11 today's kanji: 韓【かん】Korea. 02:13:09 (nothing like a Chinese character, with a Japanese pronunciation, about a third country.) 02:13:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LATERAL CHICKEN). 02:29:39 -!- shikhout has joined. 02:32:26 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:42:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:00:42 -!- FreeFull has joined. 03:22:50 [wiki] [[MNNBFSL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40887&oldid=40886 * AndoDaan * (+146) Added an interpreter. 03:29:25 [wiki] [[User:AndoDaan]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40888&oldid=40477 * AndoDaan * (+14) Hey guys! *cough* I mean, added MNNBFSL implementation mention. 03:29:29 -!- adu has joined. 03:32:35 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 03:41:06 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:27:06 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:36:02 Morning reading: http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST-WITHDRAWN/ECMA-116,%201st%20edition,%20June%201986.pdfhttp://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST-WITHDRAWN/ECMA-116,%201st%20edition,%20June%201986.pdf 04:36:17 Arg, malformed link: http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST-WITHDRAWN/ECMA-116,%201st%20edition,%20June%201986.pdf 05:06:13 Will ABCDEF ever get a non-dead link? 05:08:30 if you make one 05:08:47 If only I had a perfect memory 05:11:44 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:11:49 -!- DTSCode has changed nick to dTS. 05:11:51 -!- L8D has joined. 05:11:57 -!- dTS has changed nick to dTSCode. 05:12:11 LISP, FORTH, Io, Brainfuck... what am I missing? 05:12:42 and how is the bfjoust hill doing? 05:14:00 missing from what 05:14:48 elegantly-simple languages 05:15:12 I'm thinking about which languages I should incorporate in a game I'm theorizing 05:15:15 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Thatguy25252525 * New user account 05:15:19 I want to play that game 05:15:21 can you tel me about it 05:15:25 also prolog 05:15:38 so there is this matrix of bytes 05:15:56 and you as the player have this character which is just a program 05:16:07 that you can write in any of the above languages 05:16:15 and they all have they're own strengths and weaknesses 05:16:34 but your program essentially is supposed to continously traverse this matrix 05:16:38 and can find other programs 05:16:57 and then you can delegate code to try and eliminate or try to communicate with these other programs 05:17:10 that sounds so cool! 05:17:52 so the world is represented as an ever-expanding matrix of bytes, and there is a 'tick' every few minutes or so 05:18:04 and each tick evaluates each step in a program 05:18:14 so like with brainfuck a single tick would run a single instruction 05:18:29 but with LISPs ticks are a lot slower and stuff 05:18:38 are you sure Io is slow 05:18:42 sorry simple 05:18:50 well I don't know about Io really 05:19:06 I think I'd need to create a subset or something 05:19:19 but the syntax and structure behind is really elegant 05:19:31 so I can make something that a user can build upon 05:19:47 but I'd need a way of making a 'tick' of the program more concrete or evident 05:19:56 i really like th sound of this 05:20:10 and give some kind of power to the higher-level languages to prevent people from using brainfuck-generating scripts 05:20:22 but another big problem is how I would implement the structure behind this all 05:20:27 and how to make it scale 05:20:53 I'll probably just use erlang 05:21:03 but for now I'm focusing on the design of the game 05:21:18 vanila: you're in #haskell right? 05:21:39 yes but dont hold it against me 05:21:58 but yeah I looking for languages that are simple and elegant 05:22:09 me too 05:22:33 I guess Io is too bloated but I can see myself writing a subset or forking the repo and stripping the standard library out 05:23:08 Lisp, Forth, and brainfuck can be used at least; I don't know much about the Io programming language, so I could not answer you about that. 05:23:18 Prolog 05:24:12 maybe even lua 05:24:18 nah 05:24:37 http://barrywatson.se/cl/cl_metacircular.html 05:24:37 I was wondering if there were any nice esoteric languages other than brainfuck that fit the bill 05:24:42 look 05:25:23 yeah prolog is very similar to erlang but still very complex to implement 05:25:34 prolog is very very simple to implement from scratch 05:25:45 well the syntax is quite crazy 05:26:08 that's what I meant by similar to erlang 05:26:10 the syntax is extemely simple, on level with Lisp plus some infix operators 05:26:30 the language itself is quite differnet to erlang since it has unification and nondeterminism 05:27:26 okay I'll consider 05:27:28 it 05:27:37 ooo what about assembly? 05:27:58 Unefunge? 05:28:15 you dont have to include it in your game but I just wanted to express that prolog is very simple and belongs on the list 05:28:35 AndoDaan: what 05:28:49 AndoDaan: waaay to complicated 05:28:50 assembly.. could use something stupid like subleq 05:28:54 Unefunge is Befunge limited to one dimension. 05:29:03 Alright. 05:29:28 it doesn't look like one dimension :/ 05:31:46 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:36:07 -!- dTSCode has changed nick to DTSCode. 05:37:00 I saw some things saying that when doing Huffman coding you need a EOF code or an indication of the length in the header. Actually, you only need three bits at the beginning of the file to tell you when it ends, or depending on the tree in use, possibly even less than three bits. 05:37:29 how? 05:37:56 that seems wrong to me anyway 05:38:07 oh 05:38:12 the number of bits out of the last byte 05:38:56 -!- reynir has changed nick to reynir_. 05:39:12 -!- reynir_ has changed nick to reynir. 05:39:18 [wiki] [[Talk:Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40889&oldid=34356 * Thatguy25252525 * (+586) /* ATZ */ new section 05:39:26 Yes. 05:39:52 [wiki] [[Talk:Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40890&oldid=40889 * Thatguy25252525 * (+1) /* ATZ */ 05:41:45 does esoteric archive other sites e.g. http://strlen.com/programming-languages 05:42:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_M%C3%BCller 05:43:02 [wiki] [[Talk:Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40891&oldid=40890 * Thatguy25252525 * (+2) /* ATZ */ 05:44:33 [wiki] [[Talk:Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40892&oldid=40891 * Thatguy25252525 * (-1) /* ATZ */ 05:45:10 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:48:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_Fuck_Scheduler 05:51:13 [wiki] [[Talk:Main Page]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40893&oldid=37931 * Thatguy25252525 * (+577) /* ATZ */ new section 05:52:33 -!- b_jonas has joined. 05:52:38 [wiki] [[ATZ]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40894 * Thatguy25252525 * (+590) Created page with "The ATZ programming language is an esoteric programming language designed by Arvin Zadeh in 2014. It has yet to be implemented and no interpreters have yet been made. Since it..." 05:56:41 -!- vanila has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:08:10 -!- DTSCode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:10:52 -!- DTSCode has joined. 06:10:54 [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40895&oldid=40851 * Thatguy25252525 * (+10) Added the ATZ programming language. 06:34:10 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:42:56 Do you know the "Schroedinger's Directory"? 06:43:58 ls fldrA fldrB fldrC rmdir fldrA rmdir: fldrA: Not a directory cat fldrA cat: fldrA: Is a directory ... So, which is it? 06:44:07 I think it is a file containing the text "cat: fldrA: Is a directory" 06:52:06 zzo38: some other process has changed it in between? 06:52:23 I suppose that can be a possibility too 06:52:50 What exactly will happen if it is a symlink? 06:53:27 zzo38: ah, that's possible 06:53:32 if it's a symlink to a directory 06:53:47 because rmdir won't follow it, cat will 07:16:25 -!- augur has joined. 07:27:55 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:28:55 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:34:00 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 07:34:00 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 07:37:20 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:40:31 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:42:37 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 07:42:37 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 07:45:48 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:49:31 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:56:09 -!- L8D has joined. 07:56:10 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:03:00 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 08:05:50 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:17:09 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:17:10 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:20:33 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:24:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:24:59 -!- centrinia has joined. 08:27:36 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:29:49 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:31:17 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:31:18 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:32:33 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:34:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:35:07 -!- Patashu has quit (Client Quit). 08:37:43 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:42:27 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 08:42:47 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:45:57 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:47:46 -!- clog has joined. 09:07:07 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:14:23 -!- clog has joined. 09:18:47 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:48:42 "The company name is FEDERAL GOVERNMENT APPROVED COMPANY, Nigeria Federal Government approved this company because some bank and courier company are using their office to scam many other people all over the World --" well, that's an imaginative name. 09:50:17 Only the most naive person would still respond to something like that. Just the type they're looking for. 09:51:19 though, leading them on is fun for a while. 09:51:52 http://www.419eater.com/ 09:52:28 It would only cost $8000 to get my $10.5 million, and I can pay most of it when I receive the money, they just need $180 now "to enable them approve your delivery from Nigeria Federal High Court of Justice". 09:52:59 Also the company name keeps changing, now it's called "FEDERAL GOVERNMENT APPROVE FEDEX COMPANY". 09:53:54 "Stop contacting Western union Or those evil Bank because they can't transfer your fund rather they will kept demeaning money one after another." 09:54:04 Oh no, they will demean the money. 09:54:38 fizzie: You should ask them to send you $20 to confirm their bank account is real, after which you'll send them the full $200. 09:56:21 I don't think I'm enterprising enough. 10:00:14 Anyone know of any dynamically typed BASIC dialects? 10:05:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:19:53 AndoDaan: you can invoke other processes using Haskell yes 10:19:59 that's what I do with blsqbot as well 10:20:19 blsqbot launches the blsqinterpreter in a new process 10:20:33 for security reasons I guess 10:20:41 because this way I can have a timeout in the interpreter 10:20:55 (which is about 0.04s or something iirc) 10:21:08 and a 2s timeout for the process 10:23:02 also that's the way rlisp works as well 10:23:11 !rlisp (add $0 1) 10:23:11 Value 1 10:23:33 !rlisp (head $0) 10:23:33 (line 1, column 2): 10:23:38 bleh 10:26:41 also Burlesque is becoming object something-oriented 10:26:51 in a way 10:31:42 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40896&oldid=40871 * TomPN * (+4) /* def function */ 10:35:18 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40897&oldid=40896 * TomPN * (+155) /* Qubits */ 11:08:04 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:18:15 -!- clog has joined. 11:19:02 -!- boily has joined. 11:28:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:40:06 I am going to try and write a really optimizing brainfuck implementation at some point 11:53:57 this sound like a threat. “I'm going to write you a brainfuck optimizer, you vile slimy fungot!” 11:53:58 boily: but some people just born to marry fnord with that and 11:56:47 fungot: any predictions about the comet and the lander mission? 11:56:47 b_jonas: oh you did 11:56:59 fungot: no, I mean any prediction from you? 11:56:59 b_jonas: so i don't really have that much time but she was very pleased and was showing everybody you know and 11:57:15 fungot: trust your instincts 11:57:16 b_jonas: ( ( ah ah)) to talk to meet people you know talking about travel i wish i did 11:57:51 fungot: which one of your girlfriends was showing everybody? 11:57:51 boily: i think ' cause that's what they 12:09:06 fungot: hi 12:09:06 mroman: i don't know how i exactly how i feel you know i get it um yeah i knew one day i just made up my mind you know certain certain subways don't go to bars so i have to 12:09:24 fungot: walk to bars? 12:09:25 mroman: what kind of products they sell okay laughter you know like he's chasing her all over the place laughter and so it's it's crazy 12:15:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:15:57 bars selling laughter, chasing prospects all over the place. 12:16:22 oerjan: good mœrjaning. careful, fungot is being sentient today. 12:16:22 boily: i well i want what liz taylor has i want to collect it 12:16:50 -!- boily has quit (Quit: APOSTATIC CHICKEN). 12:17:08 boily: fungot wants to marry a dozen times? 12:17:09 oerjan: if it's a ban on everybody then you can purchase that gives you a ah destination and something fun to do scrapbooking do you do any sewing any actual sewing or laughter you know 12:17:36 oh he left, how rude. 12:19:46 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:27:24 Closest thing to a first peek at what I've been working on: https://twitter.com/J_Arcane/status/532501084120809472 12:28:34 "Hersey"? 12:28:40 -!- lesocratic has joined. 12:29:35 Heresy, yes. 12:29:36 J_Arcane: if you link a pdf here, you could at least _mention_ that it's > 50 Mb 12:29:52 oerjan: Oh shit, sorry about that, I didn't realize it was so big. 12:30:08 wait 12:30:12 you're mentally ill? 12:30:52 `? mad 12:30:53 ​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 12:30:57 mroman: Well, I am diagnosed with clinical depression, but I'd like to think it's unrelated to this project. ;) 12:30:58 -!- lesocratic has left. 12:31:01 it's not _just_ a joke. 12:32:16 mroman: that's kind of a weird thing to randomly ask somebody 12:32:49 elliott: Not If that Somebody has a blog article mentioning it. 12:33:09 ...if they have, then do you need to ask in the first place? 12:33:42 I wasn't asking for a "fact" 12:33:50 It's a "surprise" kind of question. 12:34:00 like 12:34:10 "I hit him in the face." "You did?" 12:34:23 how surprising that somebody could have illnesses and still talk about esoteric programming languages on IRC. 12:34:28 well 12:34:31 that's not surprising 12:34:39 I'm diagnosed with depression as well 12:34:55 in fact, I'm living in a mental health facility right now 12:35:40 been there, done that. (good luck, btw) 12:36:39 sorry for the sarcasm, anyway; I have a bit of a hair trigger about the topic. 12:36:52 It was an odd question. 12:36:54 It's a sensitive issue for sure. 12:37:10 My social skills aren't impressively good ;) 12:37:13 A lot of stigma around it still, though it's starting to get better, at least about depression. 12:37:14 my experiences with the mental health care system have not been positive 12:37:46 I keep getting good therapists and then having to move and losing them ... :( 12:38:33 J_Arcane: that sucks 12:38:40 mroman: also, they let you have internet? 12:38:41 luxury. 12:38:53 elliott: It's not full stationary 12:39:07 I have to consult leo.org for a moment 12:39:28 I'm also still on a sub-therapeutic dose of my medication, and the doctor here won't approve a bigger one for at least another two weeks, maybe longer. Big city health services in Finland can mean long wait times. 12:39:36 it's the kind of thing where you are not 100% in the clinic 12:39:49 mroman: outpatient? 12:39:51 more like 50% 12:39:56 I work during day hours 12:40:03 ah 12:40:43 you sleep there and stuff 12:40:55 for me, it was 24/5; I was allowed to go home on weekends. to start with (until I was uncooperative), and months later when they ran out of excuses to keep me sleeping there, it became an outpatient thing. (I was a minor at the time.) 12:41:17 I sincerely hope you are getting better treatment than I did :p 12:42:00 I think they are trying to get rid of me.. 12:42:37 not in the evil sense 12:43:06 just in the "you should think about leaving soon" sense 12:44:40 The problem is that if you can't answer the question 12:44:46 "Well, how can we help you?" 12:45:34 things get difficult. 12:45:46 yes. yes they do. 12:46:04 my experience was considerably less voluntary :p 12:46:28 elliott: the place i stayed was also pretty lenient about internet 12:46:36 I just wrote the word "lexicuton", and was struck by a strong feeling that it should mean something, but I don't think it does. 12:46:44 (Was attempting to write "lexicon".) 12:46:45 We have internet from 17:30 to 23:00 in the clinic 12:46:48 no WLAN though. 12:46:50 (obviously, since i kept coming here) 12:47:06 oerjan: right. I suspect that is more common in facilities for adults. 12:47:36 They don't actually know all my "symptoms" 12:47:41 you miss out on the "IRCing until 4 am every day on a smuggled iPhone from a mental health care facility" experience, though 12:47:48 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:47:50 elliott: aww 12:47:51 because I'm blocked/too scared/whatever to tell them the whole story 12:48:05 elliott: well that _is_ something to write in your autobiography 12:48:06 I'm so good at iPhone typing now. 12:48:52 oerjan: my autobiography would be 2000 pages long and panned as being completely unrealistic 12:48:57 The thing that shuts down internet isn't DST aware though 12:49:04 for a short time it cut you off at 22:00. 12:49:50 mroman: how does the blocking work? does it just completely cut the connection or does it, like, hijack HTTP to redirect to a "stop using the internet" page? 12:50:07 I'm not thinking about that thing that tunnels TCP over DNS but I'm thinking about that thing that tunnels TCP over DNS. 12:50:15 no 12:50:18 it cuts the connection 12:51:14 I'm not really planning on using internet after 23:00 anyway 12:51:18 that's usually the time I go to sleep 12:52:19 weirdo. 12:52:20 :p 12:52:21 "lexicuton" looks like "L-execution" 12:53:01 mroman: that could be because of the one week difference in America versus Europe DST 12:53:14 I was thinking of something like a particle physics analogue but in a language context. 12:53:31 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:53:56 mroman: as in, the DST offset changed on 2014-10-26 in Europe, but one week later in much of the US 12:54:00 The thing that mediates the interaction between two lexicons. 12:54:35 Or maybe you learn new words by absorbing lexicutons, or something. 12:56:08 b_jonas: the explanation is much simpler I think 12:56:20 you turn the clock one hour back 12:56:29 so what previously was 23:00 is now 22:00 12:56:39 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40898&oldid=40897 * TomPN * (+2) /* Output */ 12:56:51 if you don't turn the clock one hour back in the "cut internet of" thing it will think it's 23:00 when it's really just 22:00 12:57:08 mroman: sure, it's possible that they just misconfigured it 12:57:23 it's probably even something that just cuts power of the modem/router 12:57:56 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitschaltuhr#mediaviewer/File:Digitale_Zeitschaltuhr.jpg <- something like that 12:58:18 it might just be using UTC, sounds more likely than anything american involved 12:58:19 I'd guess it'd be a feature of the router. they often have a lot of "parental control" type things 12:58:21 mroman: hmm... I'd more guess it's a setting on the router, but that's possible too 12:58:52 anyway... if you have smartphone with internet connection you can use internet all day long 12:59:01 (I have no internet contract for my smartphone though) 12:59:03 mroman: "can" in what sense? 12:59:18 b_jonas: you "can" and it's allowed. 12:59:47 which makes the policy of "no internet past 23:00" kinda obsolete actually 13:00:19 I don't think they pay by the hour :) 13:00:44 It might be a legal thing though 13:01:13 how filtered is their internet? :p 13:01:20 they are somehow responsible for what you do while you are there 13:01:37 elliott: well... I can ssh out of it 13:01:48 I can play League of Legends 13:01:51 for a short tim 13:01:52 *time 13:02:05 the connection somehow breaks always after some time 13:02:27 hearthstone works as well 13:05:28 We had one of those things which rotate and then you stick in pins to configure the time. 13:05:56 fizzie, we use one of those for christmas lights 13:06:07 what, a time-turner? 13:06:10 see, configure the time, get it. never mind 13:06:18 Yes, ha ha. 13:06:34 hehe, time-turner 13:06:54 http://indoorgardensupplies.com/wp-content/uploads/TN311C-T-6-Timer.jpg -- this sort of thing, except much more... er, I can't figure out a better description except "German-looking", which is probably horribly inappropriate. 13:07:04 the joke is I interpreted fizzie's line as referring to time travel. 13:07:15 HEAVY DUTY 13:08:45 fizzie: I hate the ones that rotate 13:08:48 they generate noise 13:13:27 This evening I have an opportunity to fulfil my life-long dream 13:13:36 which is? 13:13:47 To be a contestant on University Challenge 13:13:54 My uni's try-outs are this evening 13:16:23 (University Challenge is a British quiz show which pits teams of students against eachother) 13:16:32 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40899&oldid=40898 * TomPN * (+1556) /* Example programs */ 13:16:38 on TV? 13:16:55 *in TV 13:16:57 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40900&oldid=40899 * TomPN * (+0) /* Hello World! */ 13:17:01 probably in? 13:17:02 or is it on 13:17:20 It's on TV 13:17:22 hm. on sounds better actually 13:17:25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fd1ywxn8ig 13:17:34 so Taneb is going on a TV. 13:17:39 Maybe 13:17:58 If I make the try-out, then the second round of selection, then the team is good enough to go on TV 13:19:55 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40901&oldid=40900 * TomPN * (+3) /* Hello World! */ 13:20:15 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40902&oldid=40901 * TomPN * (+2) /* Storing qubits in cells */ 13:22:52 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:23:35 [wiki] [[Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40903&oldid=40857 * TomPN * (+0) /* Velocity */ 13:24:39 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40904&oldid=40902 * TomPN * (+11) /* Example programs */ 13:25:30 [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40905&oldid=40904 * TomPN * (-11) /* Hello World! */ 13:37:18 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 13:38:57 xkcd is doing something weird again... 13:41:10 Whatever it is id doesn't work in my Chrome so I couldn't figure what. 13:41:30 Ahh, now it's working. Just blank before. 13:41:54 "Volume 4783" wow, that's a big number. 13:41:57 ah it showed 13:48:44 someone made http://xkcd1446.org/ 13:51:19 why do people embed jquery from jquery.com rather than hosting their own copy... (though I guess I like that better than loading it from google.com) 13:57:41 Taneb: good luck for that. tell us how the try-out went. 14:09:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:14:50 -!- CADD has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:16:42 int-e: dammit your comment about waiting for henkma's 120 byte solution was too close to accurate :( 14:17:10 124. 14:17:34 i said "too close to", not "exactly" hth 14:17:56 I wasn't contradicting you. 14:18:24 Otoh you seem to agree on the 68 for Brainfuck Optimization. 14:18:29 yes! 14:19:19 i'm a little surprised you didn't find that, it's _almost_ the completely obvious thing to do 14:19:22 anyway, plenty of time left for desparation 14:19:30 yeah 14:19:34 I didn't try too hard 14:20:02 so don't count me out yet :P 14:20:06 right :) 14:21:32 hm henkma's 124 solution uses as many alphanums but much fewer symbols 14:24:41 perhaps that means he's using some verbosely named function, or even an import 14:25:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:26:49 import Data.Mysterious.Bag.Of.Golf.Tricks;main=doWhatIMean 14:27:08 (it's a bag, hence in data) 14:28:26 i actually tested Data.Map, it was one char longer than Data.List with sort 14:30:13 -!- shikhout has joined. 14:30:47 -!- shikhout has changed nick to Guest86977. 14:32:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:32:59 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:57:18 Who here has been looking at Rust? 14:57:37 looking at rust forming, now there's a hobby 14:58:25 "However, due to the quantum nature of the program, this will only occur ≈99% of the time. " Well, there are deterministic quantum algorithms too 15:02:32 -!- hjulle has joined. 15:04:48 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:10:42 Go Philae go 15:10:50 indeed 15:11:23 if the harpoons don't work it will just bounce of the comet back into space? 15:11:27 *off 15:11:43 mroman: no 15:11:50 *bounce off from the comet? 15:12:18 -!- augur has joined. 15:12:22 hm no 15:12:38 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 15:13:18 It's "bounce off the comet", right? 15:13:25 the thruster may still work, and even if it doesn't, there's dampers so he doesn't bounce too high so gravity may still help, and after that he can anchor himself like a rock climber 15:13:40 b_jonas: but I've read that gravity isn't really strong 15:13:46 (on said comet) 15:13:53 the bounce off is the unlikely worst case 15:14:04 sure, it's not strong, it's a small (four kilometer size) comet 15:14:39 this news site says it only weighs 4 grams on the comet 15:14:53 which suggests that if I threw a golf ball at it it would just bounce off into space again 15:14:55 the lander still slows down a lot before landing, those thursters work. it's just the reverse thruster that weakly pushes the lander _towards_ the comet _after_ touching down that may have a problem 15:15:07 since the rebound is probably stronger than the gravity 15:15:11 mroman: yes, but there's nobody throwing golf balls that far up 15:17:11 If it really says "weighs 4 grams" and not something like "equivalent of 4 grams on Earth" or anything, that must've annoyed quite a few readers. 15:17:37 well 15:17:47 it's obvious that it means "equivalent of 4 grams on earth" 15:17:58 (to me) 15:18:28 It may be obvious, but I wouldn't be surprised it'd still annoy people. It kind of does that to me. 15:19:39 *yawn* 15:25:44 I see fizzie did basic brainfuck optimizations 15:26:06 *yawn* 15:27:02 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:30:29 -!- Gregor has joined. 15:38:19 Does anyone know of a channel where I can ask basic APL questions? 15:48:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:50:12 try stackoverflow?! 15:50:54 are there any irc channels for those J / K languages? 15:52:09 b_jonas knows some J 15:52:13 [ 5 15:52:13 tromp, there is but I am not sure if that is the right place to be asking about APL? 15:52:13 mroman: 5 15:52:26 [ i.5 15:52:26 mroman: 0 1 2 3 4 15:52:34 [ 1+i.5 15:52:35 mroman: 1 2 3 4 5 15:53:08 [ i.5+i.5 15:53:09 mroman: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 15:53:09 mroman: 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 15:53:09 mroman: 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 15:53:09 mroman: 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 15:53:09 mroman: 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 15:53:09 mroman: ... 15:53:15 hu 15:53:25 [ +i.5i.5 15:53:25 mroman: |ill-formed number 15:53:35 [ (i.5)+i.5 15:53:36 Taneb: 0 2 4 6 8 15:54:04 !blsq 4rz4rz?+ 15:54:04 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 15:54:08 !blsq 4rz4rz?+ 15:54:08 {0 2 4 6 8} 15:55:27 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:56:11 i thought those are the modern derivates of APL 15:56:40 blsq is really modern . 15:57:59 !blsq {2 2 3 1}{2 2 2 2}ct 15:57:59 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 15:58:02 !blsq {2 2 3 1}{2 2 2 2}ct 15:58:02 1.0 15:58:31 !blsq {2 2 3 1}{2 2 2 2}ct4 0.95cq 15:58:31 9.487729036781156 15:58:43 !blsq {2 2 3 1}{2 2 2 2}ct4 0.95cq.< 15:58:44 1 15:58:53 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:58:57 !blsq {0 2 5 1}{2 2 2 2}ct4 0.95cq.< 15:58:58 1 15:59:04 !blsq {0 0 7 1}{2 2 2 2}ct4 0.95cq.< 15:59:04 0 15:59:35 -!- augur has joined. 15:59:45 hm 15:59:52 !blsq {2 2 3 1}SD 15:59:52 0.816496580927726 16:00:48 !blsq "Hello, world!"tt{**32.-2B!7'0P[}m[sa^^8.%8\/.-.+'0[P8co{2B!}\m 16:00:48 {81 22 100 201 227 0 87 159 74 100 64 32} 16:01:55 mroman: I pretty much did the same as the ubiquitous sed, so it's p. boring. 16:02:07 !blsq {81 22 100 201 227 0 87 159 74 100 64 32}{2B!8'0P[}\m6co{L[6==}f[{2B!32.+L[}\m 16:02:07 "419DR>, 5Y]*9$ @" 16:02:13 hm 16:02:15 this seems buggy 16:02:26 oh well. 16:03:10 !blsq "1234"<-3co)<-<-',IC 16:03:11 "1,234" 16:03:19 !blsq "1234567"<-3co)<-<-',IC 16:03:19 "1,234,567" 16:04:44 !blsq 1234567<-3co)<-<-',IC 16:04:44 {ERROR: Burlesque: (_+) Invalid arguments!} 16:04:51 !blsq 1234567 3co 16:04:51 {123 456 7} 16:06:45 !blsq 1234567<-3co)<-<-',[] 16:06:45 {1 ', 234 ', 567} 16:06:54 !blsq 1234567<-3co)<-<-',[]im 16:06:54 ERROR: Burlesque: (++) Invalid arguments! 16:06:57 !blsq 1234567<-3co)<-<-',[] 16:06:57 {1 ', 234 ', 567} 16:07:02 !blsq 1234567<-3co)<-<-(,)[] 16:07:03 {1 , 234 , 567} 16:07:05 !blsq 1234567<-3co)<-<-(,)[]im 16:07:05 ERROR: Burlesque: (++) Invalid arguments! 16:07:07 !blsq 1234567<-3co)<-<-(,)[] 16:07:07 {1 , 234 , 567} 16:07:11 !blsq 1234567<-3co)<-<-(,)[]sp 16:07:11 [Sh, "\n", 1, "\n", Sh, "\n", ,, "\n", Sh, "\n", 234, "\n", Sh, "\n", ,, "\n", S 16:07:17 !blsq 1234567<-3co)<-<-(,)[]bs 16:07:17 "1 , 234 , 567" 16:07:21 !blsq 1234567<-3co)<-<-(,)[]BS 16:07:21 1 , 234 , 567 16:07:24 !blsq 1234567<-3co)<-<-',[]BS 16:07:24 1 , 234 , 567 16:07:59 !blsq 1234567<-3CO)<-<-',[]BS 16:07:59 123 , 234 , 345 , 456 , 567 16:21:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:22:50 I guess it's Touchdown for Philae 16:26:16 -!- augur has joined. 16:31:54 fungot: Do you live on a comet? 16:31:54 mroman: i fnord you for being able to exercise sigh 16:33:53 Not too many exercise possibilities on comets, I guess. 16:34:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:35:56 the hard part is not falling off while you do it 16:36:51 I've heard harpoons work on comets. 16:37:08 yeah there's some recent evidence. 16:40:43 guys 16:40:58 LISP, FORTH, Bf, possibly Io... what am I missing here? 16:41:05 prolog has been suggested but I don't know 16:41:14 I'm writing an MMO similar to bfjoust 16:41:35 L8D: when reading the logs, i _was_ going to suggest underload until i saw you needed interactivity. 16:42:04 the brief summary is: There's a matrix of bytes (octets), you write a program that continuously traverses this matrix and finds other programs 16:42:13 you should just prod ais523 to finish underlambda, i guess. 16:42:36 L8D: what are the requirements for the language? 16:42:36 what makes underload useful? 16:42:55 tromp: simple to learn/parse syntax, libary-less semantics 16:42:58 L8D: i thought you wanted elegant and simple, not useful hth 16:43:08 APL? 16:43:12 L8D then how about binary lambda calculus (BLC) ? 16:43:18 I mean... what makes underload elegant and simple? 16:43:28 tromp: is that something that is easy to learn and parse? 16:43:44 I thought that was just an encoding for doing ski combinators 16:43:53 L8D: see http://www.ioccc.org/2012/tromp/hint.html 16:44:05 no, it's not SK based 16:44:21 ^ul (It is )((very easy)*)^(S):!^ 16:44:22 It is very easy 16:44:22 underload has simple semantics 16:44:26 i can be parsed and interpreted in 29 bytes 16:44:30 i->it 16:44:31 and an elegant concatenative paradigm 16:44:37 this will be code that would be edited inside browsers BTW 16:45:04 the game itself would have a fancy UI 16:45:09 and be web based 16:45:13 hmm, blc is not suitable for writing code in directly:( 16:45:20 yeah... 16:45:30 one sec I have some examples 16:46:14 Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 16:46:23 all of the programs would be equivalent: http://lpaste.net/114179 16:46:25 but it comes with a BLC assembler so maybe that is doable 16:46:35 it's psuedo-code at the moment however 16:47:16 that ioccc link has an example program for reversing input that looks like "\a a ((\b b b) (\b \c \d \e d (b b) (\f f c e))) (\b \c c)" 16:47:28 -!- Guest86977 has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:47:48 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:50:32 I'm not really looking for hard-to-code-in or really-effing-abstract programming languages 16:50:41 which I guess is what most esoterics are 16:50:45 but you're asking this channel? :p 16:50:53 yeah... should've expected it 16:51:03 but I know this channel would definitely be interested 16:51:16 BLC is both hard-to-code-in and really-effing-abstract :-( 16:51:36 as well as really simple:-) 16:52:20 L8D, I'm still inclined to suggest something APL-like, such as J 16:52:25 Not sure how good at IO they are, though 16:53:11 nah they don't need good IO 16:53:19 I can just inject the stuff in-memory 16:53:24 or somethign 16:54:36 hm... J is actually quite interesting 16:54:56 although it gets quite crazy fast 16:58:48 what about some kind of lambda calculus thing? 16:58:52 not ski combinators but lambdas 16:58:58 and well... not lisp 16:59:03 Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download :) 16:59:05 something Haskell-y 16:59:18 Taneb: what? 16:59:43 L8D, an esolang I made 17:00:07 it's the COBOL dialect of binary lambda calculus:) 17:00:11 It has the ease-of-programming of binary lambda calculus with the terseness of COBOL! 17:00:14 ah 17:00:24 (I meant it as a purely functional BIT) 17:00:46 In terms of semantics, other than IO it's identical to BLC 17:00:55 tromp: what about a Haskell dialect of lambda calculus? 17:01:08 that's, uh, haskell 17:01:12 or lambda calculus 17:01:15 depending on what you mean 17:01:21 I mean like.... 17:01:25 everything's a function 17:01:28 and you have lambdas 17:01:31 lambda calculus? :p 17:01:37 well yeah 17:01:40 elliott, maybe with binding names? 17:01:42 then you end up with hard to program 17:01:47 Taneb: LC has name binding! 17:01:51 (\name -> body) defn 17:01:52 but I'm looking for an existing LANGUAGE that models LC 17:02:02 elliott, syntaxy binding names 17:02:06 Haskell fits but haskell has other things 17:02:14 I want something that is stricty LC 17:02:20 lambda calculus is a language... 17:02:31 which could be a LISP but LISP has other things 17:02:42 elliott: like there is a specific language named "lambda calculus" ? 17:02:50 L8D: yes. 17:03:00 -.- 17:03:02 there are actual implementations of pure lambda calculas. 17:03:04 blc is just lambda calculus with the means to do IO 17:03:24 got it 17:03:33 and written in binary:( 17:03:35 so like... I could do peano numerals and all that? 17:03:35 L8D: the lambda calculus was one of the very first programming languages, really 17:03:39 it just wasn't thought of in that way originally 17:03:53 you have to define you numerals from scratch 17:03:57 I know 17:03:57 since we didn't have computers to evaluate it yet 17:04:04 I went through the CS lectures too ;) 17:04:14 but yes, you can write a lambda calculus evaluator in like half a page of haskell code, if that 17:04:17 the blc prime number generator doesn't even use a number representation 17:04:21 I'm talking about implementations though 17:04:35 are there implementations of LC that do it properly and lazily and such 17:04:44 -!- mihow has joined. 17:04:51 see that ioccc link 17:05:02 elliott: how would it be typesafe? 17:05:23 L8D: you hide the recursion behind a data type 17:05:26 it would be untyped 17:05:47 I want to enter IOCCC but I can never think of a good thing to write that isn't like, way too ambitious 17:05:54 elliott: but you'd still run into problems with GHC not letting you do recursively ambiguous types 17:05:57 no? 17:05:59 L8D: or just don't do it metacircularly 17:06:04 I don't know what you mean by that 17:06:12 newtype LC = LC (LC -> LC) -- this type models the lambda calculus, albeit uselessly 17:06:25 and that compiles without warnings?! 17:06:30 of coure 17:06:31 course 17:06:34 data List a = Nil | Cons a (List a) 17:06:39 L8D: what would the warning be? 17:06:42 you couldn't do much of anything without recursive types 17:07:04 int-e: cannot determine type of this type 17:07:11 actually, GHC's inliner does have a bug when you use this trick to implement the Y combinator directly, embarrassingly. I don't think it's that easy to trigger though. 17:07:31 L8D: it's even inhabited 17:07:32 I understand recursive data structures, I'm not a noob to haskell 17:07:33 in practice I'd just use newtype LC a = Var a | App (LC a) (LC a) | Lam (LC (Maybe a)). 17:07:49 well, the type of LC is *. :p 17:07:56 Here's a walk through for building a lambda-calculus language in Racket, with sample code: http://matt.might.net/articles/compiling-up-to-lambda-calculus/ 17:08:01 (unlike things like newtype Foo = Foo Foo) 17:08:07 L8D: do you believe that newtype LC = LC (Int, LC) is a type? 17:08:15 inhabited by, for instance, x = LC (123, x) 17:08:17 elliott: sure, it's a comonad too 17:08:29 L8D: OK. do you believe that newtype LC = LC (Int -> LC) is a type? 17:08:33 sure 17:08:40 newtype LC = LC (LC -> Int)? 17:09:01 newtype LC = LC (LC -> LC) is inhabited by LC id, for example. or LC (const (LC id)) 17:09:02 sure, but wouldn't the problem rely when there aren't any other types that GHC can infer other than functions 17:09:10 inhabited by e.g. x = LC (\_ -> 123), y = LC (\(LC k) -> k (LC k) + 1) 17:09:19 I don't see why 17:09:27 do you believe newtype LC = LC (LC, LC) is a type? 17:09:37 I mean, functions aren't really special here 17:09:55 IN JUST OVER AN HOUR I WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO BECOME ONE STEP CLOSER TO ACHIEVING MY DREAM 17:09:58 I know it's a type, but I don't get why GHC doesn't throw a fit 17:09:58 (okay, they are if you're trying to have a sound language like proof systems have to worry about, because of variance. but Haskell doesn't care about non-terminating programs) 17:09:59 or LC (\LC f -> LC (f . f)) -- which would be the Church numeral 2. 17:10:08 I mean, I don't get why GHC would :) 17:10:14 uhm LC (\(LC f) -> LC (f . f)) 17:10:30 L8D: what about data LC = Foo | LC (LC -> LC)? 17:10:47 I could see that as fine 17:10:49 then you have really boring inhabitants like Foo, LC (\_ -> Foo), LC (\case Foo -> Foo; LC _ -> LC (const Foo)) 17:11:02 L8D: okay, and you believe there are values of LC that completely ignore Foo? 17:11:11 yes 17:11:21 let's say they all, whenever they consume an LC, map Foo to undefiend and just extract the function out of the LC 17:11:24 and let's say they never produce a Foo 17:11:27 Really, newtype LC = LC (LC -> LC) it's a perfectly good type. It's not even all that obvious that you cannot do anything useful with it. 17:11:31 then do you believe we can just take Foo away? 17:11:47 sure 17:11:52 from a types standpoint 17:11:56 as a type it makes sense 17:11:59 int-e: I agree, but I am actually interested in the reasoning here... to me I can understand balking at newtype LC = LC (LC, LC) 17:12:07 but I can't quite understand accepting that but not (LC -> LC) 17:12:20 (without some deeper kind of mumbling about being strictly positive) 17:12:26 because then you couldn't actually get the function to eval as a thunk without ! 17:12:41 and I assume GHC would pick up on that 17:12:56 I'm not sure what you mean by that 17:12:57 because GHC can get any useful data out of those functions so why bother? 17:13:05 L8D: a type is all that it has to be for the compiler to accept it without complaining. 17:13:08 well, you can't get useful data out of (() -> ()) either 17:13:10 ignoring _ 17:13:16 *ignoring _|_ (i.e. without ! or such) 17:13:16 exactly 17:13:25 you expect the compiler to reject (() -> ())...? 17:13:26 so is it not complaining because it doesn't know? 17:13:34 I expect a warning about () -> () 17:13:38 I don't. 17:13:53 do you expect a warning about (main :: IO ())? :p 17:13:57 L8D: it's not complaining because there's nothing wrong 17:14:04 () -> () is isomorphic to () without _|_. 17:14:13 if you don't think () values should cause warnings then there's no reason for any of these to either 17:14:20 because with () -> () GHC will either assume it's unsafe, will bottom, or just never evaluate it 17:14:34 and those are warning-worthy to me 17:14:46 (\() -> ()) is a perfectly good value of type () -> () 17:14:51 and yes you might actually need that 17:14:53 consider generic programming 17:15:03 you often fix type variables to () when you don't need to use the more advanced form of a function 17:15:06 > fmap id (Right ()) 17:15:08 Right () 17:15:11 and then have to supply glue functionality like that to use the function 17:15:15 (() -> ()) only makes sense with "!" 17:15:20 no. 17:15:32 then when would you ever use it? 17:15:46 consider thingy :: (a -> b) -> [(a,Int)] -> IntSetWith b 17:15:49 just because there is only one inhabitant doesn't mean that a type useless. () is proof of that. 17:15:50 pardon the ridiculousy data structure 17:15:57 *is useless 17:16:01 then (thingy id . map ((),)) :: [Int] -> IntSetWith () 17:16:12 this is a contrived example. there are less contrived examples. 17:16:22 this kind of thing does pop up frequently in polymorphic programming 17:16:37 but it's still kind of useless 17:16:43 (I guess "IntSetWith" is also known as "Map Int") 17:16:48 it's there to fill an empty/unused gap 17:16:57 no, it's not useless. it's trivial. there's a difference 17:17:04 but it's unused 17:17:05 if thingy is the API you get, this is a perfectly reasonable use of it 17:17:07 no, it's used. 17:17:19 () is quite heavily used in Haskell 17:17:22 (() -> ()) means the function will either throw, bottom or do nothing 17:17:28 I'm not talking about () 17:17:34 I'm just talking about (() -> ()) 17:17:34 can you stop repeating yourself without addressing what I said? 17:17:38 I gave you some code that uses (() -> ()). 17:17:38 () -> () will, usually, be just id. 17:17:55 (which I guess is what you mean by "do nothing") 17:17:59 elliott: but that's to just fill types that you don't use 17:18:02 L8D: ok, I give you this API. mapFromList :: (a -> b) -> [(k,a)] -> Map k b 17:18:07 L8D: you want to write a function [Int] -> Map Int () 17:18:13 however, there's value in such a function because it can be passed to higher-order functions 17:18:14 if you don't think Map Int () is a useful type, consider that it is exactly Set Int. 17:18:18 L8D: please write this function for me 17:18:21 > (id *** succ) ((), 1) 17:18:23 ((),2) 17:18:30 you will find that you inevitably write a function (() -> ()) (it will be id) 17:18:42 if the compiler gave a warning for that it would be ridiculous. you're doing something perfectly reasonable with a perfectly reasonable API 17:18:43 \xs -> M.fromList (map ((),) xs) 17:18:50 *sigh* 17:18:53 you don't get Data.Map. 17:18:57 you get mapFromList. it's a thought experiment. 17:19:02 :( 17:19:03 pretend it's MyFancyMap instead of Map if you'd rather. 17:19:21 (yes, in this case the API is pointlessly more complicated than fromList. But there are many legitimate situations where you want to do something like this.) 17:19:40 mapFromList (const ()) 17:19:46 something in that vein 17:19:53 :t const () 17:19:54 b -> () 17:19:56 @let data MyMap k a = Dummy 17:19:57 ^ 17:19:58 Defined. 17:20:07 @type Data.Map.fromSet -- hmm 17:20:08 (k -> a) -> S.Set k -> M.Map k a 17:20:13 @let mapFromList :: (a -> b) -> [(k,a)] -> MyMap k b; mapFromList = undefined 17:20:14 Defined. 17:20:23 @type mapFromList (const ()) :: [Int] -> MyMap Int () 17:20:24 Couldn't match type ‘(Int, a0)’ with ‘Int’ 17:20:25 Expected type: [Int] -> MyMap Int () 17:20:25 Actual type: [(Int, a0)] -> MyMap Int () 17:20:32 @type mapFromList (const ()) . map ((),) :: [Int] -> MyMap Int () 17:20:33 Couldn't match expected type ‘Int’ with actual type ‘()’ 17:20:33 In the expression: () 17:20:33 In the first argument of ‘map’, namely ‘((),)’ 17:20:38 @type mapFromList (const ()) . map (,()) :: [Int] -> MyMap Int () 17:20:39 [Int] -> MyMap Int () 17:20:42 L8D: correct. I have bad news for you. 17:20:47 do you know what the type of (const ()) in context is there? 17:20:52 () -> () 17:20:56 yep. 17:21:04 but it's not useless. 17:21:06 it's doing exactly what you want. 17:21:10 but that's when you're doing polyfilling 17:21:20 okay, I'm bored of this 17:21:22 polywhat? 17:21:31 some web thing 17:21:32 I'm talking about when you do somethign where you could just use unit 17:21:43 and that's not what I mean by polyfilling 17:21:52 when you use unit to substitute some unused type 17:22:44 here's the last thing I say before I let myself get sucked back into this in a few minutes: if you had your way GHC would produce thousands of spurious warnings on vast swathes of high-quality, idiomatic Haskell code that would only be worsened by trying to work around it. 17:22:52 there is no problem. 17:23:08 *I'll say 17:23:19 wait... 17:23:31 in mapFromList (const ()) . map (,()) 17:23:37 const () is Int -> () 17:23:46 but whatever 17:23:47 wrong. 17:24:02 :t \f -> mapFromList f . map (,()) 17:24:03 (() -> b) -> [k] -> MyMap k b 17:24:19 > mapFromList (const () :: Int -> ()) [1, 2, 3] 17:24:21 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (L.MyMap k0 ())) 17:24:21 arising from a use of ‘M389555805829656213922168.show_M3895558058296562139... 17:24:21 arising from a use of ‘e_1123’ 17:24:47 ;t mapFromList (const () :: Int -> ()) 17:24:49 :t mapFromList (const () :: Int -> ()) 17:24:50 [(k, Int)] -> MyMap k () 17:24:58 your job was to write [Int] -> MyMap Int () 17:25:01 not that 17:25:06 :t mapFromList (const () :: Int -> ()) . map (,()) 17:25:07 Couldn't match expected type ‘Int’ with actual type ‘()’ 17:25:07 In the expression: () 17:25:07 In the first argument of ‘map’, namely ‘(, ())’ 17:25:09 :t mapFromList (const () :: () -> ()) . map (,()) 17:25:10 [k] -> MyMap k () 17:25:28 touche 17:25:39 I'm too old for bickering angrily on IRC like this. I should be too old for bickering on IRC like this, anyway... 17:25:42 * L8D is the dumbest person in this channel 17:26:05 L8D: btw GHC uses GHC.Exts.Any rather than () to fill unused types hth 17:26:21 I doubt that, but I'm the most irritable, that's worse. 17:26:39 sorry for ranting over something that doesn't matter. 17:27:13 I was going to say fungot probably is but that's just mean. fungot has made more sense than people in this channel before 17:27:13 elliott: seeing she was like that's ' cause we especially kids watching the news because you never know 17:27:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: The harpoons never fired?). 17:27:55 who is fungot ? 17:27:55 L8D: yeah exactly and if pays good then it's all right it's okay for adults too you probably wouldn't be the best way to find out 17:28:13 what? 17:28:16 fungot 17:28:17 L8D: and it seems like some kids a lot better it's a lot of 17:28:19 oh I see 17:28:45 ^source 17:28:46 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 17:28:47 ^style 17:28:47 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher* fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 17:28:50 ^style irc 17:28:50 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 17:28:51 fungot fungot 17:28:51 L8D: that would be first-class, and they need to raise our hopes too high, yes. 17:28:53 fungot: be more coherent 17:28:53 elliott: see: unicode!?! :p) then performed operations on it, it's not a 17:28:58 fungot: you can do bette than this 17:28:58 elliott: lambda the ultimate 17:29:00 haha 17:29:02 *better 17:29:08 `addquote elliott: lambda the ultimate 17:29:08 elliott: interfaces should never ask to save 17:29:10 1223) elliott: lambda the ultimate 17:30:48 fungot: You hypocri-bot with your ^save command. 17:30:49 fizzie: the only difference between proper lists dotted lists is the wrong way 17:31:01 Deep. 17:31:22 ^yoda fungot 17:31:32 *cries* 17:31:39 "fungot" 17:31:39 L8D: matthew integrated that fix, but i 17:31:48 "fungot" 17:31:48 L8D: since people get to take 6.001. i realized that 17:31:54 "fungot" 17:31:54 L8D: translates ' good night' to people and sympathize with them. these were designed in. from what i understand 17:32:04 `delquote 1223 17:32:06 ​*poof* elliott: lambda the ultimate 17:32:07 it lost its charm 17:41:03 `quote I thought that was 17:41:04 938) did you know that likes follow you around the internet and steal your browser? I thought that was Phantom_Hoover 17:41:20 Meh, I'm a narcissist 17:41:25 Last night I made a pun. 17:41:42 -!- DTSCode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:42:01 Bah, I'm getting anxious, I'm gonna go for a walk 17:43:00 -!- DTSCode has joined. 18:02:05 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:06:37 -!- augur has joined. 18:46:39 -!- vanila has joined. 18:53:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:53:45 http://lpaste.net/114191 18:53:53 bubble sort in i ment what i sed 18:54:43 http://lpaste.net/114192 18:59:45 oh, i guess /// is better than this! 19:01:07 -!- augur has joined. 19:06:43 hi augur 19:09:27 omg its augur 19:09:39 itz augur guys 19:09:43 look see 19:12:08 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:19:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:19:53 -!- variable has joined. 19:21:34 -!- L8D has left. 19:21:46 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:23:05 vanila: hey 19:23:08 what are you doing here 19:24:01 i made an esolang but /// is better 19:29:36 vanila: whyd you make an esolang? 19:29:38 and what kind is it? 19:30:21 http://lpaste.net/114191 http://lpaste.net/114192 19:30:34 because i couldnt sleep :S 19:36:19 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:37:34 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:39:03 -!- heroux has joined. 19:41:09 tromp: #jsoftware is the irc channel 19:44:13 thx; b_jonas, i suggest Taneb tries his APL questions there 20:00:44 is there any language which distinguishes the first-person plural when it does or does not include the addressee of the conversation as well? 20:00:51 ("we" vs. "we and you", basically) 20:03:08 Yes, very many. 20:03:48 It’s called “clusivity” (inclusive vs. exclusive (of the second person)). 20:17:06 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:19:10 [wiki] [[ATZ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40906&oldid=40894 * 199.254.2.56 * (+7) 20:20:43 [wiki] [[ATZ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40907&oldid=40906 * 199.254.2.56 * (-7) 20:22:55 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 20:30:32 -!- shikhout has joined. 20:33:11 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:35:06 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 20:51:22 -!- blsqbot2 has joined. 20:51:43 !blsQ %:"age" 19 "money" 1000V 20:51:44 1000 20:51:48 hm 20:51:50 what 20:52:19 !blsQ %:0"age" 19 "money" 1000V 20:52:19 <"age",19><"money",1000> 20:52:24 yay 20:53:49 !blsQ nm19"age"mi 20:53:49 <"age",19> 20:54:03 b_jonas: ^- maps 20:54:31 !blsQ %p=%:0"age"19V 20:54:31 No output! 20:54:35 !blsQ %p=%:0"age"19V%p? 20:54:36 <"age",19> 20:55:04 pretty cool huh 20:55:09 -!- blsqbot2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:56:21 mroman: mutable maps? 20:56:27 oh wait 20:56:30 mroman: are those variables? 20:56:42 %p is a variable 20:56:52 -!- blsqbot2 has joined. 20:56:58 great! 20:57:06 !blsQ %foo=9 %foo? %foo? ?* 20:57:07 81 20:57:25 !blsQ %square{^^?*} 9 %square! 20:57:26 ERROR: Burlesque: (e!) Invalid arguments! 20:57:31 !blsQ %square={^^?*} 9 %square! 20:57:31 81 20:57:38 %foo= is an assignment 20:57:42 %foo? is a "get" 20:57:48 and %foo! is a "call" 20:57:56 and %: is a map 20:58:10 !blsQ %m=%:0%:0 9 9V8V 20:58:11 No output! 20:58:15 !blsQ %m=%:0%:0 9 9V8V%m? 20:58:15 <<9,9>,8> 20:58:24 that's a map with a map as a key 20:58:44 %:0 9 8V creates a map with key 9 and value 8 20:58:55 the 0 is the "default" value returned by lookups if no value was found 20:59:03 !blsQ %:0 1 2 3 4 5 6V 20:59:03 <1,2><3,4><5,6> 20:59:13 !blsQ %:0 1 2 3 4 5 6V8 7mi 20:59:14 <1,2><3,4><5,6><7,8> 21:00:30 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:03:15 which means you can also do recursion 21:03:23 !blsQ %q={%q!}%q! 21:03:23 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 21:03:25 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Voidpigeon * New user account 21:03:44 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 21:04:00 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 21:04:58 [wiki] [[Talk:Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40908&oldid=40892 * Voidpigeon * (-588) moving atz 21:05:18 [wiki] [[Talk:Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40909&oldid=39056 * Voidpigeon * (+589) moved atz 21:09:00 [wiki] [[Talk:ATZ]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40910 * Voidpigeon * (+181) Created page with "==Documentation== On [[Talk:Joke_language_list|the joke language list]], it says that documentation is said to be released upon request. This is a request to see the document..." 21:12:32 Hah, this newsthing spends a paragraph on describing the stink of the landed-on comet. 21:12:38 !blsQ %q={%q={}%q!}%q! 21:12:38 No output! 21:12:46 !blsQ %q={%q={9}%q!}%q! 21:12:46 9 21:16:23 !blsQ %q={%q={9 8"q"sv}%q!}%q! 21:16:24 9 21:16:31 !blsQ %q={%q={9 "q"8sv}%q!}%q! 21:16:31 9 21:16:42 !blsQ 9"abc"sv 21:16:43 No output! 21:16:45 !blsQ 9"abc"sv"abc"gv 21:16:45 9 21:17:16 !blsQ %q={9"q"sv%q?}%q! 21:17:16 9 21:17:33 !blsQ %0=9 21:17:33 No output! 21:17:47 !blsQ {5 5?+}s0%0! 21:17:47 10 21:18:08 ERROR: (line 1, column 25): 21:18:16 Any questions? No? Good. 21:18:20 -!- blsqbot2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:25:36 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:37:01 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 21:39:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:40:02 -!- augur has joined. 21:41:50 -!- S1 has joined. 21:42:40 [wiki] [[Talk:Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40911&oldid=40909 * 70.211.156.73 * (-589) /* ATZ */ 21:43:08 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:43:30 -!- TodPunk has joined. 21:43:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:48:22 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:48:51 -!- TodPunk has joined. 21:52:28 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:52:50 -!- TodPunk has joined. 21:56:17 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:56:47 -!- TodPunk has joined. 21:58:18 -!- augur has joined. 22:01:59 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:02:20 -!- TodPunk has joined. 22:02:53 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:03:22 -!- TodPunk has joined. 22:03:42 [wiki] [[Container]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40912 * Por gammer * (+1929) Created page with ""Container" is an esoteric programming language created by the user [[user:Por Gammer]]. The language models a finite set of nonnegative integers (denominated "containers") th..." 22:04:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:07:41 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:08:02 -!- TodPunk has joined. 22:12:15 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Dimensions There isn't an implementation for this language, is there 22:13:35 Well, it didn't seem to have existed at all before the 8th of november 22:13:39 I suppose there isn't one 22:14:18 I imagine it needs to be implemented in some sort of sparse manner 22:14:19 I'd like to see one, too 22:16:22 there is n-funge... 22:16:50 If you constrain yourself to just two cells in every direction, that's 2^52 cells 22:17:05 I don't have that much RAM 22:17:08 the problem of dimensionality, they call it. 22:17:27 The curse of dimensionality 22:17:32 as if it was allocated all at once 22:17:46 Bicyclidine: n-funge is not listed on esolang wiki, is it? 22:18:21 it's mentioned in the befunge article 22:18:49 there's not a lot to specify, really, just add one instruction for arbitrary velocity and then two for each dimension 22:20:14 https://sbjoshi.wordpress.com/2013/03/27/paradox-about-high-dimensional-spheres/ High-dimensional stuff is weird 22:20:18 Bicyclidine: this one? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fungeoid 22:20:31 no, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge 22:20:48 "The closest relative, and most direct extension, of Befunge-93 is Befunge-98 of the Funge-98 family of languages. Each Funge extends the central concepts of Befunge to a given number of dimensions (for example, Unefunge is one-dimensional, Trefunge is three-dimensional, Nefunge is n-dimensional, etc.). " 22:20:48 I meant the n-funge one 22:21:04 I see 22:21:20 http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1110/1110.2832.pdf this is a succint abstract 22:24:56 The paradox is cool 22:26:31 Unefunge and Trefunge are specified in spec98 (in addition to Befunge-98) 22:50:58 The Hello World example in 'Dimensions' is so lame 22:51:24 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:51:30 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:52:31 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:53:07 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:53:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:54:52 -!- CADD has joined. 22:57:42 -!- vanila has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:02:51 -!- vanila has joined. 23:03:22 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 23:09:44 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:09:47 -!- augur has joined. 23:10:57 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:11:05 -!- augur has joined. 23:12:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:13:31 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:16:40 No one here's talking about .NET? 23:17:10 You are, for one. 23:17:12 I don't know a lot about .NET 23:17:15 it's not a language 23:17:41 .нет 23:17:50 russian .net? 23:17:55 no 23:18:38 Bicyclidine: but .no is norway 23:19:52 `quote cross-platform 23:19:53 No output. 23:19:57 boily keeps asking, but people respond with neither coördinates norway 23:20:01 `quote sgeo 23:20:01 50) What else is there to vim besides editing commands? \ 63) Where's the link to the log? THERE'S NO LOG. YOUR REQUEST IS SUSPICIOUS AND HAS BEEN LOGGED. \ 93) And... WTF is it doing. :( Is it sexing? \ 102) what's the data of? [...] Locations in a now deceased game called Mutat 23:20:13 `quote microsoft 23:20:13 116) Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on \ 247) * Received a CTCP VERSION from nyuszika7h * VERSION Microsoft IRC# 2011 64-bit (Windows 8 Beta, x64, 2GB RAM) Gregor: Windows 8 Be 23:20:21 116 no longer applicable? 23:20:53 that's optimistic. 23:21:17 -!- centrinia has joined. 23:21:20 not even a swat :'( 23:21:45 I'm cautiously optimistic about open .NET. 23:23:39 shachaf: your pun israelly bad but doesn't deserve a swat 23:24:28 * S1 snorts :| 23:25:58 S1: when it comes to puns, i'm german 23:26:12 when it comes to puns, i'm luxembourgish 23:26:26 oerjan: ;) 23:32:27 `quote 247 23:32:27 247) * Received a CTCP VERSION from nyuszika7h * VERSION Microsoft IRC# 2011 64-bit (Windows 8 Beta, x64, 2GB RAM) Gregor: Windows 8 Beta? o_O A small benefit of my brief time as an intern at MS. 23:32:35 oerjan: what do i gotta do to fuel my swat masochism 23:33:07 I guess that quote is a bit dated 23:33:11 i guess you could join a swat team 23:33:26 whoa, nyuszika7h has been here before? 23:33:30 my memory is slipping 23:33:45 fascinating! 23:34:27 lambdabot: have you been good today? 23:34:52 @botspark 23:34:52 :) 23:42:57 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:43:05 Oh Agatha has a hard time second-guessing herself, but at least she's trying :) 23:44:20 Also we've seen a pile of metal that needs scrapping fairly recently. The possibilities! 23:47:44 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:50:27 -!- S1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:50:56 -!- S1 has joined. 23:57:43 -!- MDude has joined.