00:02:41 <Phantom_Hoover> FreeFull, what Jafet said, it's uncomputable in general
00:02:43 <Jafet> GAP and Pari/GP can work with finite structures
00:02:58 <Jafet> I don't think they accept group presentations as input though
00:03:35 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm sure it's well-behaved on some sufficiently small subset that includes the quaternions, though
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00:07:56 <FreeFull> I'm not looking for anything that's more powerful than a human
00:08:56 <Jafet> There are also equational logics that can probably decide equivalence between two given quaternions
00:18:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Jafet, i mean it's not like working out a canonical form for a given quaternion is in any way hard
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00:19:09 <lambdabot> ENVA 182350Z 09005KT 050V110 CAVOK M02/M03 Q1028 RMK WIND 670FT 11007KT
00:19:17 <Jafet> If you know they're quaternions, sure
00:19:26 <Phantom_Hoover> (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_problem_for_groups#Examples)
00:19:47 <Jafet> If all you have is some smtlib code that happens to implement quaternions
00:19:54 <Jafet> But you don't know that yet
00:20:25 <oerjan> quaternions have the property that the additive basis is a multiplicative subgroup
00:20:37 <Dulnes> oerjan: minter cuz its cold and wtf is a wint, minter sounds better
00:20:51 <oerjan> generates one. that is finite.
00:21:25 <Phantom_Hoover> well i mean we're implicitly talking about the unit quaternion group here
00:21:42 <Dulnes> how much can lambdabot compute/solve btw lets say in the e+ range
00:22:14 <lambdabot> 3.7182818284590452353602874713526624977572
00:23:02 <Jafet> > exp 1000000 :: CReal
00:23:14 <Jafet> > exp 1000 :: CReal
00:23:15 <lambdabot> 1970071114017046993888879352243323125316937985323845789952802991385063850782...
00:24:06 <Dulnes> uh well 1 e = how many zeros come after the last digit i have. eg; 254e+9
00:24:24 <oerjan> > 10 * (exp 1 + 1) :: CReal
00:24:26 <lambdabot> 37.1828182845904523536028747135266249775725
00:24:52 <oerjan> huh CReal show only limits digits after the decimal point
00:25:16 <oerjan> (there's a function to adjust that, though)
00:25:19 <Jafet> show doesn't use scientific notation
00:25:48 <Dulnes> i meant will the bot shorten it to e
00:25:49 <Jafet> > read "1e100" :: CReal
00:25:51 <lambdabot> 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000...
00:26:10 <oerjan> Dulnes: not with any of the standard types, no. (or CReal for that matter).
00:26:42 <oerjan> it's not a computer algebra system, it's a haskell interpreter
00:26:57 <oerjan> you could write a CAS in haskell, presumably
00:27:18 <Jafet> Hmm, mathematica over irc
00:28:05 <Jafet> Mathematica's text I/O is crap though
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00:29:13 <Jafet> Well, compared to the notebook interface
00:31:27 <Dulnes> > read "3e20" :: CReal
00:32:42 <Dulnes> Also is this the original lambdabot?, ive come across alot of copies on my irc adventure
00:34:55 -!- b_jonas has joined.
00:35:04 <FireFly> Otherwise it wouldn't be named 'lambdabot' (on Freenode)
00:35:19 <int-e> What identifies a bot?
00:35:51 <int-e> Has lambdabot stopped being the original lambdabot when Cale (I think) took over from dons?
00:37:44 <Dulnes> Unless Cale changed lambdabot's code then no
00:38:07 <lambdabot> git clone git://github.com/int-e/lambdabot.git
00:38:32 <Dulnes> Also this one seems more Helpful/responsive than others
00:39:56 <oerjan> Registered : Aug 31 10:04:41 2005 (9 years, 11 weeks, 4 days, 14:34:36 ago)
00:40:17 <oerjan> that's the freenode account it's using
00:40:23 <oerjan> which is older than mine
00:40:52 <int-e> Anyway, I would agree that it's fair to call this one the original. There's a straight line from the original lambdabot on #haskell to this one.
00:41:46 <lambdabot> LOWI 190020Z AUTO 00000KT 9999 FEW005 SCT010 BKN080 04/04 Q1011
00:42:03 <lambdabot> ESSA 190020Z 06008KT CAVOK 04/03 Q1029 R01L/19//95 R01R/19//95 R08/19//95 NOSIG
00:42:07 <int-e> There's the one unofficial command.
00:42:25 <int-e> (Meaning the hackage version of lambdabot doesn't know it.)
00:42:52 <int-e> lambdabot is... undermaintained (is that a word? let's pretend it is.)
00:42:57 <Dulnes> that means its original
00:43:04 <FireFly> And it's used in approximately one channel (the command, that is)
00:43:42 <Dulnes> i could never haskell like this
00:44:03 <oerjan> hey int-e is even older. and here i keep thinking of you as nearly a newbie, which you are on #esoteric i guess.
00:44:28 <int-e> oerjan: I took a leave of absence from #esoteric
00:44:36 <oerjan> Registered : Apr 24 14:51:11 2004 (10 years, 30 weeks, 0 days, 09:51:43 ago)
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00:46:07 <oerjan> int-e: if it were german or norwegian, asking whether the equivalent of "undermaintained" is a word would be nonsense, no? :P
00:46:31 <int-e> 2004-04-24-raw.txt:< 1082848258 ? :int-e!~noone@td9091b33.adsl.terralink.de JOIN #esoteric
00:47:38 <Dulnes> Im amazed at how long you've stayed on irc int-e
00:47:43 <oerjan> Dulnes: it's a horrible pun in the shape of romantic math hth
00:47:50 <int-e> Dulnes: screen is amazing
00:48:58 <FireFly> I've been on IRC for ten years, then, but not on Freenode (was it even Freenode back then?)
00:48:59 <int-e> It's just simple arithmetic.
00:49:43 <Dulnes> Im only 27 and havent used irc in this entire time
00:50:13 <oerjan> int-e: you never know with date and time.
00:50:31 <oerjan> suddenly they skip a couple weeks for silly reasons
00:51:01 <int-e> But! Easter celebration is a serious matter.
00:51:22 <FireFly> That reminds me of the Swedish calendar, which I learned about the other day
00:51:55 <FireFly> Apparently we had the silliest idea for transitioning to the Gregorian calendar of all countries
00:52:04 <oerjan> talk about backpedalling
00:53:49 <Dulnes> i was 17 when int-e started irc
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00:55:42 <int-e> oerjan: Ok, so basically I was on #esoteric for some time in 2005 and 2006, then disappeared for almost 7 years.
00:56:25 <FireFly> HackEgo doesn't have access to logs anymore, does it?
00:56:37 <FireFly> Though those probably didn't go that far back anyway
00:57:55 <Dulnes> send me a.link to the logs
00:57:59 <oerjan> i thought HackEgo had downloaded some older ones from tunes or the like
00:58:07 <oerjan> Dulnes: it's in the topic
00:58:10 <HackEgo> :-( \ 113500 \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dir \ dog \ etc \ factor \ faith \ head \ hej \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ script.py \ share \ src \ test.c \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf \ you
00:58:28 <oerjan> FireFly: i think the logs show up better on google now than they used to, though.
00:58:55 <int-e> `` ls -la complaints
00:58:55 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Sep 12 13:29 complaints -> /dev/null
00:59:08 <int-e> `` cat bin/complain
00:59:09 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input "$@" >> complaints; echo Complaint filed. Thank you.
00:59:47 <int-e> I love this one. It must've been inspired by the BOFH.
01:00:13 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `hej you': No such file or directory
01:01:07 <HackEgo> <!DOCTYPE html> \ <html lang="en" dir="ltr" class="client-nojs"> \ <head> \ <title>Wierd - Esolang</title> \ <meta charset="UTF-8" /> \ <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.20.4" /> \ <link rel="alternate" type="application/x-wiki" title="Edit" href="/w/index.php?title=Wierd&action=edit" /> \ <link rel="edit" title="Edit" href="/w/ind
01:01:18 <FireFly> https://www.google.com/search?q=site:codu.org+inurl:2008+FireFly I suppose I never joined in the 2008 then
01:01:27 <FireFly> (which was when I first found the wiki)
01:01:39 <oerjan> i've noticed a nick i don't really know doing HackEgo tests in private, i think those two files are from there
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01:02:42 <HackEgo> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[--------------------------------------<[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<>++++++++++<[->>>+<<<]>>>[<<[<+>>+<-]>[<+>-]>-]<<[-]<[-<+>]<>,----------]<>>+<<[->><[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>>>++++++++++<<[->+>-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<<]>>[-]>>>++++++++++<[->-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<]>[-]
01:02:58 <FireFly> `` ibin/brainfuck <index.html*
01:02:59 <HackEgo> bash: ibin/brainfuck: No such file or directory
01:03:18 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ . lib/interp \ \ # Get the bitwidth from the command \ BW=`echo "$CMD" | sed 's/bf//'` \ if [ "$BW" = "" ] ; then BW=8 ; fi \ \ interp_file ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi$BW
01:03:46 <oerjan> `` \! bf <<<index.html
01:04:00 <oerjan> hm i guess maybe it doesn't do anything
01:04:13 <oerjan> well there's a , and no . in what's showing
01:04:20 <FireFly> the file is called.. somtehing weird
01:04:51 <FireFly> `` grep -o \\\. index.html*
01:05:42 <int-e> `` echo abcde | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:05:46 <Dulnes> im looking through these logs
01:05:55 <int-e> `` echo abcdf | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:06:07 <Dulnes> you guys had alot of fun
01:06:56 <int-e> oerjan: it does something :)
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01:08:41 <int-e> "alot" indicates too small an allottment of space
01:10:24 <int-e> s/ott/ot/ Spelling is hard.
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01:14:21 <FireFly> `` echo a | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:14:25 <FireFly> `` echo aa | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:15:22 <FireFly> Looks like the char-code plus the index of the character?
01:15:56 <int-e> `` echo aaa | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:16:03 <int-e> `` echo aaaa | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:17:34 <FireFly> `` echo -e '\0\0' | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:18:28 <int-e> `` echo 1 | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:18:32 <int-e> `` echo 01 | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:18:36 <int-e> `` echo 2 | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:18:39 <int-e> `` echo 3 | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:18:42 <int-e> `` echo 4 | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:18:46 <int-e> `` echo 5 | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:18:51 <int-e> I see a pattern there.
01:19:13 <FireFly> `` echo -e '20' | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:19:51 <int-e> > let f = 0 : scanl (+) 1 f in f!!20 `mod` 256
01:20:22 <int-e> > let f = 0 : scanl (+) 1 f in f!!5 `mod` 256
01:20:27 <int-e> > let f = 0 : scanl (+) 1 f in f!!21 `mod` 256
01:20:36 <FireFly> `` for i in $(seq 15); do ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html* <<<$i; done
01:20:36 <HackEgo> 12358132134558914423312198219
01:20:53 <FireFly> `` for i in $(seq 15); do ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html* <<<$i; echo; done
01:20:53 <HackEgo> 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 121 \ 98 \ 219
01:21:36 <int-e> `` echo 257 | ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 index.html*
01:22:01 <HackEgo> :-( \ 113500 \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dir \ dog \ etc \ factor \ faith \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ script.py \ share \ src \ test.c \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
01:22:34 <HackEgo> --[------->++<]>-.[->+++<]>.+++++.-----------.+++++++++.+++++++++.+[->+++<]>++.+.--[--->+<]>-.--[->++<]>.--[->++<]>-.+.++[->+++<]>++.+++++.++++++.[->+++++<]>+++.+[--->+<]>+++.++[->+++<]>.>++++++++++.-[->++++<]>-.[->+++<]>.+++++.-----------.+++++++++.+++++++++.+[->+++<]>++.+.--[--->+<]>-.--[->++<]>.--[->++<]>-.+.++[->+++<]>++.+++++.+++++.++++++.[
01:22:48 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
01:22:51 <HackEgo> -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 2316 Oct 31 00:50 113500
01:23:18 <FireFly> `` grep -r '[+-><.]{10}' .
01:23:44 <oerjan> int-e: that was an lpaste i fetched 2 weeks ago
01:23:47 <FireFly> Hm, should've used --only-filename
01:25:18 <FireFly> `` grep -EHo -r '[-+><.]{10}' .
01:25:38 <oerjan> and i also fetched the index.html* thing 4 weeks ago
01:25:49 <HackEgo> ./prefs:++++++++++ \ ./prefs:>+++++>++> \ ./prefs:++++++++>+ \ ./prefs:+++++++<<< \ ./prefs:>----.>>>- \ ./prefs:.<++++.<++ \ ./prefs:++.>>+.++. \ ./prefs:<<<+++++++ \ ./prefs:++++++++++ \ ./prefs:++++++++++ \ ./prefs:++++++++.+ \ ./prefs:.>>>------ \ ./prefs:---.<++++. \ ./prefs:>----.<--- \ ./prefs:--.<++++++ \ ./prefs:++++++++++ \ ./prefs:+++
01:26:12 <FireFly> `` grep -EHo -r '[-+><.]{10}' . | cut -d: -f1 | uniq
01:26:35 <oerjan> basically the weird filenames is because they're generated from urls.
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01:28:49 <oerjan> `` grep -EHo -r '[-+><.]{10}' . | cut -d: -f1
01:29:20 <HackEgo> ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs \ ./prefs
01:29:45 <oerjan> `` grep -EHo -r '[-+><.]{10}' . | cut -d: -f1 | uniq
01:29:54 <int-e> oh come on, use grep -l
01:30:20 <FireFly> Oh, *that* is what it's called
01:30:31 <oerjan> is it just timing out?
01:30:34 <FireFly> I searched the manpages but couldn't find it
01:31:02 <int-e> FireFly: searching for -l works just fine ;-)
01:31:25 <FireFly> Right, but searching for "only" (as in --only-matching") doesn't
01:31:35 <FireFly> I expected --only-filename or some such
01:32:00 <FireFly> ``grep -Elr '[-+><.]{10}' . | uniq
01:32:01 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `grep: not found
01:32:05 <FireFly> `` grep -Elr '[-+><.]{10}' . | uniq
01:32:14 <int-e> hmm, it's --files-with-matches ... I don't think I'll try and remember that.
01:32:15 <HackEgo> ./prefs \ ./bin/emmental \ ./bin/macro \ ./bin/searchlog \ ./share/lua/5.2/luarocks/fs/lua.lua \ ./pref \ ./index.html?dl=1812 \ ./src/ploki/try/poly.poly \ ./src/emmental.hs \ ./113500 \ ./paste/paste.10124 \ ./paste/paste.31138 \ ./paste/paste.27038 \ ./paste/paste.30032 \ ./paste/paste.29969 \ ./paste/paste.24049 \ ./paste/paste.30902 \ ./pas
01:32:34 <int-e> but you don't need the -uniq either
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01:33:03 <FireFly> That makes sense, I didn't think that through
01:33:39 <FireFly> oh, right, some of those are probably --------- comments
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01:41:22 * int-e found the answer to http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/test.html ; it was rendered correctly. (I've added a link to the CSS specification there.)
01:45:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Malbolge]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41030&oldid=41020 * Oerjan * (+46) It doesn't count as signed without timestamp hth
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01:52:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:My Unreliable Past]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41031&oldid=41028 * Oerjan * (+145) ...or a nick. Or either. Or both.
01:56:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Oerjan]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41032&oldid=39074 * 213.162.68.152 * (+87) What about signatures without comments, I wonder?
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02:00:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Oerjan]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41033&oldid=41032 * Oerjan * (+107) AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
02:01:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41034&oldid=40307 * Oerjan * (+6) AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
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02:09:16 <oerjan> hmph haskell.org is giving me a cloudflare error page
02:11:32 <int-e> hmm. "You can follow the progress on #haskell-infrastructure on Freenode"
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02:28:06 <Dulnes> hmm whats wrong with haskell.org
02:28:18 <oerjan> Dulnes: maintenance apparently
02:28:25 -!- adu has joined.
02:30:46 <int-e> unscheduled RAID disk failure
02:34:29 <int-e> http://www.mail-archive.com/haskell@haskell.org/msg25054.html
02:34:49 <int-e> (of course the mailman archive is down, too...)
02:36:20 <Dulnes> how the fuck did it lose its raid disk
02:36:21 <int-e> because of tuesday
02:37:14 <int-e> ok, that was weak, let me check with BOfH
02:38:13 <int-e> "MAGNETS! Wrap your disks up in a pillow case with lots of magnets - Solar Flares hate that."
02:38:18 <int-e> That would explain it.
02:39:56 <Dulnes> there was a solar flare?
02:40:31 <int-e> http://bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/0000/bastard06.php
02:49:54 <Dulnes> doesnt answer that question
02:56:26 <int-e> oh perhaps you wanted http://www.tesis.lebedev.ru/en/sun_flares.html?m=11&d=17&y=2014
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04:03:59 * Dulnes stabs chat to see if it died
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04:20:25 <MDude> I should work on making things, but what?
04:27:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Karma]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41035&oldid=38299 * 128.62.56.69 * (+5) /* Examples */
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05:37:51 <Dulnes> haskell.org/ghc/ is working but still slow as shit
05:38:10 <Dulnes> also wiki is "working" barely
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06:21:14 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
06:22:25 <int-e> Dulnes: did you ever get that sleep you wanted?
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06:53:19 <Dulnes> https://system76.com/laptops/gazelle i must buy this
07:29:11 <Sgeo> Hey Google? This is not English, believe it or not: https://twitter.com/mothy_akuno
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07:43:31 <Sgeo> Maybe there shouls be an Evillious List
07:43:36 <Sgeo> Or I should get an RSS reader
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07:49:11 <Sgeo> OOh Factor 0.97 is out
07:50:47 <Sgeo> Factor can talk to Python now
08:34:47 <mroman> !blsq ,#Q2 SH ~- ",#Q" \/ .+ sh
08:34:47 <blsqbot> | ,#Q2 SH ~- ",#Q" \/ .+ sh
08:35:19 <mroman> (a *real* quine in Burlesque)
08:46:08 <blsqbot> | 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
08:47:15 <blsqbot> | Ain't nobody got time fo' dat!
08:48:22 <mroman> I just rediscovered @ can do that
08:48:38 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Unknown command: (.5)!
08:49:43 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 1):
08:49:43 <blsqbot> | expecting "\"", "-", digit, "'" or "["
08:51:34 <HackEgo> mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function.
08:52:09 <mroman> `learn_append mroman He invented the identity function.
08:52:11 <HackEgo> Learned 'mroman': mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function.
08:54:03 <HackEgo> identity function? ¯\(°_o)/¯
08:54:34 <mroman> shachaf: Perhaps you meant indentity function
08:58:24 <mroman> `ls wisdom just screwed up my terminal
08:58:31 <mroman> with some formating codes and what not
09:01:31 <HackEgo> indentity function is the function that measures how indented source code is.
09:02:07 <shachaf> That's not the thing HackEgo says you invented, though.
09:05:33 <mroman> I didn't invent the indentity function
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10:11:59 <HackEgo> The identity function is a mockingbird.
10:13:05 <mroman> @tell oerjan learn should probably warn if you are about to overwrite an existing entry.
10:20:55 <shachaf> oerjan: Would you be happier if slashlearn was //-separated?
10:32:18 <shachaf> `` sed -i -e '3a [ -e wisdom/"$topic" ] && op='\''Overwrote'\'' || op='\''Wrote'\''' -e 's/Learned/$op/' bin/slashlearn
10:34:32 <shachaf> `slashlearn identity function/The identity function is an identity bird.
10:34:34 <HackEgo> Overwrote «identity function»
10:34:40 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/identity\ function
10:34:41 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wisdom/identity\\ function': No such file or directory
10:34:48 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/identity function
10:35:03 <shachaf> `slashlearn identity function/The identity function is a mockingbird.
10:35:05 <HackEgo> Overwrote «identity function»
10:37:34 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | cut -d / -f 1) \ [ -z "$topic" ] && exit 1 \ [ -e wisdom/"$topic" ] && op='Overwrote' || op='Wrote' \ value=$(echo "$1" | cut -d / -f 2-) \ echo "$value" > wisdom/"$topic" && echo "$op «$topic»"
10:39:02 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/identity function
10:39:14 <shachaf> `` [ -e wisdom/'identity function' ] && echo a || echo b
10:39:30 <shachaf> `slashlearn identity function/The identity function is a mockingbird.
10:39:31 <HackEgo> Overwrote «identity function»
10:39:38 <shachaf> I must be missing something obvious.
10:40:36 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/identity function
10:41:43 <shachaf> `` topic=$(echo "identity function/The identity function is a mockingbird." | lowercase | cut -d / -f 1); echo "$topic"; [ -e wisdom/"$topic" ] && echo a || echo b
10:44:11 <fizzie> I couldn't think of anything else than «op='Overwrote'» being a non-success, but that should not (and does not seem to) be the case.
10:44:43 <shachaf> I was thinking maybe $topic is somehow an empty string there and it's checking the existence of wisdom/
10:44:50 <shachaf> But it looks like that's not it?
10:45:24 <fizzie> It's not an empty string when echoed at the end. I don't know.
10:46:11 <shachaf> `` (cat bin/slashlearn | head -n-1; echo 'echo $op') > /tmp/foo; chmod +x /tmp/foo; /tmp/foo 'identity function/blah'
10:46:41 <shachaf> `` slashlearn 'identity function/blah'
10:46:43 <HackEgo> Overwrote «identity function»
10:46:57 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/identity function
10:47:05 <shachaf> I should do it in one go so it doesn't change hg history.
10:48:05 <fizzie> `` (cat bin/slashlearn | head -n-1; echo 'echo $op') > /tmp/foo; chmod +x /tmp/foo; /tmp/foo 'identity function/blah'; rm /wisdom/'identity function'; slashlearn 'identity function/blah'; rm /wisdom/'identity function'
10:48:07 <HackEgo> Overwrote \ rm: cannot remove `/wisdom/identity function': No such file or directory \ Overwrote «identity function» \ rm: cannot remove `/wisdom/identity function': No such file or directory
10:48:32 <shachaf> `` (cat bin/slashlearn | head -n-1; echo 'echo $op'; tail -n1 bin/slashlearn) > /tmp/foo; chmod +x /tmp/foo; /tmp/foo 'identity function/blah'; rm -f wisdom/'identity function'
10:48:32 <HackEgo> Wrote \ Wrote «identity function»
10:48:50 <shachaf> Er, wait, I think I interfered with your thing.
10:49:35 <fizzie> Oh, I kept writing /wisdom.
10:50:14 <shachaf> `` rm -f wisdom/'identity function'; (cat bin/slashlearn | head -n-1; echo 'echo $op'; tail -n1 bin/slashlearn) > /tmp/foo; chmod +x /tmp/foo; /tmp/foo 'identity function/blah'; rm -f wisdom/'identity function'
10:50:15 <HackEgo> Wrote \ Wrote «identity function»
10:50:32 <shachaf> `` rm -f wisdom/'identity function'; slashlearn 'identity function/blah'; rm -f wisdom/'identity function'
10:50:52 <shachaf> `` slashlearn 'identity function/blah'; rm -f wisdom/'identity function'
10:51:00 <fizzie> Well, that's all quite correct.
10:51:44 <fizzie> `slashlearn identity function/just verifying
10:51:45 <HackEgo> Overwrote «identity function»
10:51:54 <fizzie> Yeah, you hit a snag that's very cleverly hidden.
10:52:14 <fizzie> Or at least I believe it's that.
10:52:32 <shachaf> Oh, it's nondeterministic.
10:52:55 <fizzie> It's executed twice, is the thing.
10:53:09 <fizzie> When the script makes modifications to the repository, it involves rerunning the command.
10:54:17 <fizzie> I wrote a concise explanation about this (and a convoluted example), but I've partially forgotten the details.
10:54:27 <fizzie> I'll see if I can find it and/or remind myself.
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10:56:43 <fizzie> Right. So it runs things in general with no locking, but when it detects a modification, it obtains an exclusive lock, and reruns the command.
10:57:04 <shachaf> Not on a pristine repository?
10:57:17 <fizzie> No. It updates the checked-out copy, but doesn't "reset" it.
10:57:25 <fizzie> Arguably, it perhaps should do that.
10:57:37 <shachaf> Not a difficult argument to make.
10:57:59 <shachaf> I guess one thing to do would be to write a status file the first time the command runs and then delete it the second time.
10:58:16 <fizzie> Or, well, to be more exact, it cleans up the repository part.
10:58:19 <shachaf> Of course you could run into locking issues that way.
10:58:27 <shachaf> Right, but it should start fresh.
10:59:11 <fizzie> It does a hg status -umad and tries to remove all those files.
10:59:49 <fizzie> In fact, I'm not sure why that's not sufficient to make slashlearn work, since it should report the new "wisdom/identity function" as modified, and remove that.
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11:00:05 <fizzie> At any rate, I would hesitate a guess that it's related to this double-execution somehow.
11:01:03 <fizzie> If I read that right, it will have problems with file names with spaces in them when cleaning up.
11:01:25 <fizzie> f = sline.split(" ")[1] where sline is the hg status output.
11:01:57 <elliott> fizzie: I think that is maybe my code :/
11:02:07 <elliott> hopefully gregor actually rewrote it so it's not my fault
11:02:42 <elliott> I do remember writing hg status -umad.
11:02:49 <elliott> it was too perfect that those were exactly the options I needed.
11:03:11 <fizzie> elliott: I can't ever remember the URL for the web-browsable repository for the bot sources itself, so I was just reading it directly.
11:03:14 <fizzie> It's somewhere, though.
11:04:22 <fizzie> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/hg/index.cgi/file/tip/multibot_cmds/PRIVMSG/tr_60.cmd
11:04:40 <fizzie> Wait, that's different.
11:05:42 <fizzie> Must be an old version.
11:06:22 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/UjDb?py is anyway the current code.
11:07:00 <elliott> okay this looks like maybe gregor rewrote it based on what I wrote
11:07:07 <fizzie> I'm thinking a least-amount-of-changes fix would be s/sline.split(" ")/sline.split(" ", 1)/
11:09:54 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | cut -d / -f 1) \ [ -z "$topic" ] && exit 1 \ value=$(echo "$1" | cut -d / -f 2-) \ echo "$value" > wisdom/"$topic" && echo "Learned «$topic»"
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11:11:19 <shachaf> Bah, cut with a multi-character delimiter doesn't work.
11:11:33 <fizzie> shachaf: Aw, you missed a great chance to work around the issue by having the first iteration communicate with the second one via /tmp (also not cleaned).
11:12:02 <shachaf> fizzie: Yes, I suggested that earlier.
11:12:12 <shachaf> But you run into locking issues that way.
11:12:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41036&oldid=41017 * TomPN * (-58)
11:12:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41037&oldid=41018 * TomPN * (-398)
11:13:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41038&oldid=41036 * TomPN * (+142) /* Example programs */
11:15:28 <fizzie> Scratch that, /tmp is in fact cleared, I was just reading it wrong. The only way you can pass information from the first run to the second is via /hackenv/. Though you could still write a status file with a space in the file name.
11:15:38 <fizzie> On the other hand, I could just go ahead and fix that part.
11:15:59 <elliott> fizzie: y'know, the hg repo for hackego is on bitbucket
11:16:26 <fizzie> And it was in fact my browser history.
11:17:01 <fizzie> https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/src/tip/multibot_cmds/PRIVMSG/tr_60.cmd?at=default seems current.
11:17:26 <fizzie> I could make a bull request or suggest a patch or whatever one does on bitbucket.
11:17:44 <shachaf> make a bull request to the stock market
11:18:13 <elliott> is Lymia really still on HackEgo's ignore list -_-
11:18:32 <elliott> anyway, this actually is based on my horrible code, woo
11:19:52 <fizzie> I'm pretty sure I had a bitbucket account, but I don't know what it is.
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11:22:08 <fizzie> Oh, "fizzie". How inventive.
11:25:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41039&oldid=41008 * TomPN * (+777) /* Syntax */
11:27:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41040&oldid=41039 * TomPN * (+54)
11:29:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41041&oldid=41040 * TomPN * (+0) /* 1 qubit transformations */
11:29:31 <fizzie> And 'hg status' will indeed output it verbatim with no escaping.
11:29:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41042&oldid=41041 * TomPN * (+0) /* 2 qubit transformations */
11:29:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41043&oldid=41042 * TomPN * (+0) /* 3 qubit transformations */
11:30:01 <elliott> -0 --print0 end filenames with NUL, for use with xargs
11:32:02 <shachaf> If you're fixing it you might as well do that.
11:32:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41044&oldid=41043 * TomPN * (+262) /* Output */
11:32:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41045&oldid=41044 * TomPN * (+1) /* Loops */
11:32:59 <shachaf> `` touch hmm; touch $'hmm\n? hello'
11:33:03 <fizzie> I added a comment about it at https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/pull-request/3/fix-repository-cleanup-wrt-spaces-in-paths/diff -- that's as far as I'll go for the moment.
11:34:29 <fizzie> There's also -n --no-status hide status prefix which might simplify things.
11:35:19 <fizzie> I'm not sure which one is better, "U no mad" or "U mad now?"
11:35:27 <shachaf> Something can be worked out. -b isn't an option to hg status, anyway.
11:35:33 <shachaf> I was thinking of "nomad".
11:36:41 <elliott> -n0umad is the most obnoxious one.
11:37:18 <shachaf> I think the correct solution is to run it in an entirely clean environment.
11:39:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Quantum Dimensions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41046&oldid=41045 * TomPN * (+295) /* Syntax */
11:49:38 <fizzie> I think the reason it doesn't do that is due to EgoBot architecture -- multibot_cmds/PRIVMSG/tr_60.cmd (the handler for `) isn't supposed to be so tightly coupled to the repository checkout/removal process, which happens in some place I can't even locate. (Granted, the whole hg status + cleanup + up dance inside is already there, so.)
11:54:00 <fizzie> In fact, as far as I can tell, there's actually just the one shared checked-out copy, and not separate ones like I assumed.
12:00:20 <HackEgo> The identity function is a mockingbird.
12:04:43 <elliott> fizzie: yes, checkout would probably add a lot of overhead
12:06:53 <shachaf> What is the simplest way to make slashlearn split on // rather than on /?
12:10:03 <fizzie> awk comes to mind, though I don't remember if it has a nice shorthand for cut "2-" equivalent.
12:11:42 <fizzie> Seems not to be the case.
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12:15:13 <fizzie> `run echo 'foo bar//baz quux//zuul' | perl -naF"'//'" -e 'print join("//", @F[1..$#F]);' # and there's this but I hesitate to call it simple, let alone "simplest"
12:18:12 <shachaf> Probably simplest to give up on bash and just use some other language.
12:18:32 <fizzie> Oh, you could also use bash itself for the splitting.
12:19:23 <fizzie> ${foo%%//*} and ${foo#*//}.
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12:20:11 <fizzie> `run topic="foo bar//baz quux//zuul"; echo "[${topic%%//*}] [${topic#*//}]" # that's quite simple
12:20:13 <HackEgo> [foo bar] [baz quux//zuul]
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12:20:52 <shachaf> maybe one day i'll know all these bash things
12:20:55 <shachaf> or at least know that they exist
12:23:17 <Taneb> Hey, remember a few months/years back someone was gonna write an article on esolangs for Washington Post or something?
12:23:23 <fizzie> I can only remember that they exist, but never (a) which one of #/% removes a prefix/suffix and (b) which one of #/## (resp. %/%%) is the shortest-matching/longest-matching. Though I guess for (b) a reasonable mnemonic would be that ## is longer than #.
12:23:35 <fizzie> I think it was some other newspaper.
12:23:49 <Taneb> Did anything ever come of that?
12:23:52 <elliott> the dude basically said he couldn't make a good article out of it :p
12:24:03 <Taneb> Ahahahaha, makes sense
12:24:12 <elliott> which is understandable since cpressey was pretty close to trolling him the entire time and the rest of us are boring weirdos
12:25:10 <Taneb> I can agree with that
12:25:43 <Taneb> The other day I spent a lecture writing a factorial function in GHC's type system.
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12:25:55 <Taneb> And then when I got home I vastly improved it
12:26:13 <int-e> I trust you were not the lecturer?
12:26:27 <int-e> Or should I say, hope...
12:27:37 <Taneb> Still got a few years yet at least before that could be the case
12:27:58 <Taneb> As in, I'm a lowly undergrad right now
12:30:20 <int-e> oh just over 3 hours until I find out how the Python people saved that one last character...
12:30:40 <int-e> (I have a 68 character version of "Wow" on anagol)
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12:48:52 <fizzie> I wondered about that, too. Didn't have any intermediate 68B stage, personally. Have you compared symbol/alnum statistics?
12:52:35 <mroman> no List of Pink Floyd Songs by release date
12:53:00 <shachaf> Just sort https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_Pink_Floyd by year.
12:59:37 <mroman> maybe it wasn't pink floyd
13:08:04 <elliott> that's, uh... a difficult mixup to make
13:09:42 <Taneb> mroman, was it the one that goes na na na na na naaaa na nana na na na na?
13:16:11 <J_Arcane> #5, #4, and #2 here are quite programming relevant. http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-trivial-things-with-armies-crazy-advocates/
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13:25:01 <mroman> That would be easy to find
13:25:17 <mroman> it either ends in batman or "hey hey goodbye"
13:26:16 <Taneb> mroman, I was going for So What, by Pink
13:26:26 <mroman> it's are we all we are
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13:35:00 <J_Arcane> https://github.com/rails/rails/issues/17671
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13:54:45 <elliott> does that mean if you have a Human model rails will automatically map it to a table called humen
13:55:54 <ais523_> elliott: NetHack's pluralizer has a special case for that
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14:18:13 <elliott> nice, almost half of the debian technical committee have resigned in less than two weeks...
14:18:39 <ais523_> how does that split between the people who supported systemd, and the people who opposed it
14:19:20 <elliott> I think 1 anti-systemd (the latest, ian jackson, who raised the GR) and the other 2 nominally pro (but maybe one or both were neutral to some extent? I forget)
14:19:30 <ais523_> (incidentally, my current opinion on systemd is "it's actually a sensible and reasonable idea, but given its provenance, I don't trust it to be remotely bug-free, and it'd be nice if it were more loosely coupled to the rest of userland"
14:19:36 <elliott> there's also been one or two more non-committee devs resigning in that timespan
14:19:54 <ais523_> the TC was only 7 or 8 devs?
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14:20:34 <elliott> they're meant to be a last resort, AIUI
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14:41:28 <lambdabot> mroman said 4h 28m 22s ago: learn should probably warn if you are about to overwrite an existing entry.
14:45:55 <oerjan> hasn't been barking for over a week
14:51:29 <fizzie> (Source: apartment description, "-- the one bedroom apartment comprises of Two double bedrooms, --")
14:54:10 <fizzie> No, it was an email from an accommodation provider company.
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14:54:58 <oerjan> fungot: don't run away like that :(
14:54:58 <fungot> oerjan: i just tried to get in the helpdesk.... anyone have that available? i'll take that as no
14:55:11 <fizzie> I don't know where fungot was, it hadn't "read failed"ed, but it was just stuck.
14:55:12 <fungot> fizzie: will need to have a little more facile with scheme, though. but i just found the fnord, the fnord brewing. :) archive.org is sometimes a very lonely place......
14:55:54 <oerjan> fungot: i don't think looking for fnords in archive.org is a healthy thing to do.
14:55:54 <fungot> oerjan: i'll keep that in mind. :d): http://koti.mbnet.fi/ yiap/ fnord/ fnord
14:59:14 <elliott> fizzie: is fungot going to develop a british accent?
14:59:15 <fungot> elliott: this is java 1.4, who knows. monads and stuff, instead of the force i-have)
14:59:22 <elliott> oh no, worse, ported to java
15:00:02 <oerjan> we all know that won't actually help.
15:00:57 <fizzie> Currently it has a force, I see.
15:01:18 <oerjan> fungot: are you a jedi
15:01:18 <fungot> oerjan: am i now? :d did i leave? except to wish me good night, sarahbot. foxfire would have been
15:01:30 <fizzie> "Renteln and Dundes (2005) give the following (bad) mathematical jokes about poles: -- Q: Why did the mathematician name his dog "Cauchy?" A: Because he left a residue at every pole. --" thank you, MathWorld, for reproducing these bad jokes about poles.
15:02:19 <fizzie> (Renteln, P. and Dundes, A. "Foolproof: A Sampling of Mathematical Folk Humor." Notices Amer. Math. Soc. 52, 24-34, 2005 seems to be worth a closer look, though.)
15:02:34 <oerjan> just keep the poles out of planes
15:02:39 <oerjan> or you know what happens
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15:07:47 <oerjan> someone is golfing in CLC-INTERCAL
15:08:30 <ais523_> it's probably a better golf language than C-INTERCAL
15:09:14 <oerjan> is %20 a regular competitor, or what you get if you don't fill in the name field
15:09:38 <elliott> %20 is a whitespace programmer
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15:11:03 <oerjan> Wow expires in under an hour
15:20:40 -!- adu has joined.
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15:59:59 <int-e> oh, nasty; if you bother with ffi you can just use ffi for output as well (Python)
16:01:24 <fizzie> int-e: I had a hypothesis that that might've been the difference, but couldn't construct a 68B solution with native output, thanks to the print statement newline/whitespace adding.
16:02:05 <fizzie> int-e: What was yours like, if you don't mind sharing it?
16:03:35 <int-e> from ctypes import*;print"%c"*765%eval("CDLL('').rand()%95+32,"*765)
16:08:00 <int-e> tails' and my dc solutions are actually quite different... tails has a ring buffer and exploits that to terminate the initialisation vector without any conditional, but pays for it by a couple of O% operations.
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16:08:16 <int-e> I have a linear buffer for the hole sequence
16:08:31 <int-e> but cannot inline the printing, as far as I can see.
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16:10:35 <int-e> oerjan: I hope you can derive some pleasure from the alternative Haskell solution. :)
16:12:40 <Dulnes> So imagine windows 7 set up.like windows XP with a vista theme
16:13:07 <Dulnes> but like filled to the brim with virus's and malware
16:13:20 <int-e> Dulnes: sounds ... normal?
16:14:46 <Dulnes> It auto installs malware when ever you go into the browser its probably the most attrocious thing ive ever seen
16:15:50 <int-e> well, do the right thing, throw it into the closest blast furnace
16:15:54 <elliott> is this what you have installed on your computer with one broken core
16:18:02 <ais523_> <Dulnes> It auto installs malware when ever you go into the browser its probably the most attrocious thing ive ever seen <- I'm not quite sure you understand how malware works
16:18:50 <Dulnes> Its the morning im tired
16:18:50 <ais523_> that's even /more/ unlikely
16:20:01 <Dulnes> whatever ill just fall back asleep to tired
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16:35:19 <fizzie> "-- in the interest of fairness and to ensure the best service for all guests limits the data download to a maximum limit of 1GB (1024MB) per day -- Broadband charges including data download exceeding 1GB (1024MB) per day - £250 per week or part of week --" wow, that's a lotta money for bytes.
16:35:44 <ais523_> this is the AWS pricing model, I think
16:35:58 <ais523_> offer a free service with low caps, and hope that people go over so that you can charge them a huge amount in overage fees
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16:36:37 <ais523_> one of my top priority when looking for a VPS provider was to find one that wouldn't charge for overage (but rather, would just put physical caps on the use)
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16:46:34 <oerjan> what, you can do foreign imports without a pragma in haskell?
16:46:47 -!- NATT_SiM has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
16:50:24 <int-e> oerjan: part of Haskell 2010
16:50:29 <int-e> I was surprised, too.
16:51:58 <int-e> there, improved the dc solution a bit more. it's now producing trailing whitespace...
16:52:43 <int-e> which was the real trick for inlining the printing in tails' code.
16:53:05 <int-e> sadly the cute B0A is gone.
16:54:36 <int-e> anyway, I guess somebody wrote that stupid test of glibc's random number generator and felt amazed when they spotted the "Wow" substring fairly early on.
16:56:22 <ais523_> now I have an idea for an anagolf problem
16:56:31 <ais523_> compression challenge, where the output is a long hex string
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16:56:44 <int-e> oh my ... http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?Wow/PatchiKnowsWhatsUp_1415208522&py even includes a space between print and ".
16:56:49 <ais523_> that's obtained by hashing some relatively short terms (but long enough to bruteforce)
16:57:16 <ais523_> err, long enough that you can't bruteforce
16:57:22 <ais523_> then I'd win that challenge by knowing what they are
16:57:49 <int-e> yeah, no fun in that
16:58:13 <int-e> Wow was barely ok because there really isn't much you can do inside 45 characters of C code.
16:58:35 <ais523_> glibc's RNG uses an algorithm known to be easy to reverse-engineer
16:59:04 <ais523_> the GolfScript solution actually just implements the algo in question
16:59:09 <int-e> especially after guessing main(){for(;;){putchar(...%95+32);}}
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16:59:38 <int-e> ais523_: I'd suppose that tails followed the same approach as I did: write the C solution, then look at glibc's source code.
17:00:07 <ais523_> I actually have glibc's algo memorized apart from the constants
17:00:28 <ais523_> new seed = old seed * something + something, output value = seed >> something
17:00:44 <ais523_> it's pretty simple as algos go
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17:02:02 <int-e> let r = zipWith (+) (0:0:0:r) $ [16807^i `mod` (2^31 - 1) | i<-[0..30]] ++ r in map (\n -> n `mod` 2^32 `div` 2) r
17:02:06 <int-e> > let r = zipWith (+) (0:0:0:r) $ [16807^i `mod` (2^31 - 1) | i<-[0..30]] ++ r in map (\n -> n `mod` 2^32 `div` 2) r
17:02:07 <lambdabot> [0,8403,141237624,811325037,492480232,713292089,1046430673,542994004,1442217...
17:02:31 <int-e> > let r = zipWith (+) (0:0:0:r) $ [16807^i `mod` (2^31 - 1) | i<-[0..30]] ++ r in map (\n -> n `mod` 2^32 `div` 2) (drop 313 r)
17:02:33 <lambdabot> [1804289383,846930886,1681692777,1714636915,1957747793,424238335,719885386,1...
17:03:11 <int-e> `c main(){for(;;)printf("%d,",rand());}
17:03:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: c: not found
17:03:44 <int-e> `ibin/c main(){for(;;)printf("%d,",rand());}
17:03:50 <HackEgo> 1804289383,846930886,1681692777,1714636915,1957747793,424238335,719885386,1649760492,596516649,1189641421,1025202362,1350490027,783368690,1102520059,2044897763,1967513926,1365180540,1540383426,304089172,1303455736,35005211,521595368,294702567,1726956429,336465782,861021530,278722862,233665123,2145174067,468703135,1101513929,1801979802,1315634022,63
17:04:44 <int-e> `ibin/haskell main = let r = zipWith (+) (0:0:0:r) $ [16807^i `mod` (2^31 - 1) | i<-[0..30]] ++ r in print $ map (\n -> n `mod` 2^32 `div` 2) r
17:04:45 <HackEgo> ./interps/ghc/runghc: line 5: /opt/ghc/bin/runhaskell: No such file or directory
17:05:34 <int-e> 16807 is easy to remember because it's 7^5
17:06:08 <FireFly> > let r = zipWith (+) (0:0:0:r) $ [16807^i `mod` (2^31 - 1) | i<-[0..30]] ++ r in map (\n -> n `mod` 2^32 `div` 2) r
17:06:09 <lambdabot> [0,8403,141237624,811325037,492480232,713292089,1046430673,542994004,1442217...
17:10:37 <int-e> the first 313 values are dropped. (in the C code it's 310, but it turned out to be convenient to shift the sequence a bit)
17:10:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DNA-Sharp]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41047&oldid=40137 * 149.69.108.53 * (-80) I unfortunately don't know where the interpreter is, but it's not at the listed link...
17:11:22 <int-e> FireFly: I had already run them in lambdabot, but I see I had also copied the wrong command in the HackEgo attempt.
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17:39:34 <ais523> wow, I could block like 90% of my spam by simply dropping any message that doesn't have my address in the To: line
17:40:57 <ais523> not counting mailing lists, is it possible for someone who isn't a spambot to send email with an incorrect To: address even by accident
17:41:26 <fizzie> If someone Bcc's you, perhaps.
17:42:16 <ais523> fizzie: oh right, obviously
17:42:28 <J_Arcane> Oh sweet heavenly angels I finally have bourbon.
17:42:47 <fizzie> I don't recall what the copy you get looks in that case.
17:43:01 <ais523> it doesn't have your name anywhere in To: or Cc:
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17:43:38 <fizzie> I get something like 90% of the spam my zem.fi addresses get filtered by a simple dnsbl blacklist (Spamhaus' zen and SpamCop) check.
17:44:19 <ais523> most of these spambots are pretty transparent
17:44:33 <ais523> some even send the entire list of emails they're spamming in the To: line
17:46:29 <fizzie> Sometimes the To: address is f<somethingelse> in the same domain, which makes me think it's the first address in a batch of messages or something.
18:05:54 <Gregor> I reduced my spam intake by very nearly 100% by using e4ward.com and deleting email addresses that get spam :3
18:10:30 <Taneb> I've got a friend who uses a different email for each service
18:12:03 <Taneb> (He has one for every valid uuid or something)
18:12:48 <Gregor> Taneb: That's what I do w/ e4ward.
18:12:51 <fizzie> Gregor: Did you notice the comment about newlines?
18:13:14 <Gregor> Yes, but I think your patch should do fine. I'm not sure how much I care about newlines in filenames X-D
18:13:18 <Taneb> I'm too lazy and sometimes like to look at spam and laugh at it
18:13:34 <fizzie> I've used suffixes (user+servicename@) for some places, and a spamtrap hotmail address for random websites that I wouldn't really want make an account for but who insist.
18:13:34 <Gregor> fizzie: I know it's still wrong... lemme put it this way: If you want to fix it, I'll happily merge another patch. Otherwise, meh.
18:13:46 <fizzie> Gregor: "I'll think about it."
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18:27:23 <elliott> fizzie: I've had things strip off the +foo, I think.
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18:57:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[My Unreliable Past]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41048&oldid=41029 * BCompton * (+2278)
19:03:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:My Unreliable Past]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41049&oldid=41031 * Ais523 * (+396) /* IO */ any nondeterministic method's OK
19:06:19 <Dulnes> Some one made a bootleg version of windows 2003 for the nintendo
19:06:58 <Melvar> Oh, I thought it was in response to the NaN. Should’ve looked at the timestamps first.
19:06:59 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
19:08:05 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !
19:08:13 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated).
19:08:19 <ais523> Melvar: sorry about your bot
19:08:23 <ais523> I didn't expect that to happen
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19:09:22 <Melvar> Nobody does, but idris happens to crash when asked that. The best thing I can really do is teach my bot to start a new idris when this happens.
19:10:11 <Dulnes> Idris crashed when he divided by zero
19:11:54 <Melvar> Specifically, if you do it in the repl, some top-level handler catches it and goes back to the prompt, but when idris runs in ideslave mode, that handler isn’t present. I’m not sure where to look for the problem or how to fix it.
19:12:55 <Dulnes> just review every part of your code
19:14:44 <Dulnes> How many lines is Idris?
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19:17:04 <Melvar> How should I count them?
19:19:53 <Dulnes> There should be an end variable depending on what you use? that tells you how many lines are in it
19:20:08 <Dulnes> idk what you use so its differdent for me
19:20:55 <ais523> Dulnes: a large project like Idris is spread across a ton of different files, many of which are in different languages, some of which are build system or the like, some of which are documentation
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19:21:47 <Dulnes> if theres an error its going to be hell finding it
19:22:08 <Melvar> I meant whether to include empty lines, comment lines, doc lines, etc. and if there’s a convenient utility implementing your choice.
19:22:25 <ais523> well, a crash upon dividing by zero is unlikely to be in the documentation…
19:22:51 <Melvar> wc on src/ reports 38515 lines total.
19:23:35 <ais523> huh, that's smaller than I was expecting
19:24:29 <Dulnes> yeah the way ais523 worded it i thought it would be larger
19:24:31 <ais523> NetHack 4 is 167762 by the same counting method
19:25:21 <Dulnes> Melvar it would be best to find whats causing that thats a very simple crash bug
19:26:14 <Dulnes> Cant you just black list the area that trys to divide by zero?
19:26:15 <ais523> Dulnes: not really; in this case, we told it to divide by zero and it divided by zero
19:26:40 <Dulnes> So it doesnt divide by zero but anything else
19:26:47 <ais523> so the problem's to find the situation in which it should actively not do what it's told
19:26:52 <ais523> and substitute an appropriate outcome
19:27:01 <Jafet> So what, the repl has a signal handler?
19:27:09 <ais523> if you defined, say, 0 `div` 0 as 0, then that would avoid the crash, but it would be wrong
19:27:31 <ais523> and `div` is probably a compiler primitie
19:27:36 <idris-bot> Can't resolve type class Integral a
19:27:45 <idris-bot> \{meth1} => prim__sdivBigInt 4 meth : Integer -> Integer
19:28:06 <ais523> so it's being compile down to other languages' divisions
19:28:46 <idris-bot> \{meth1} => prim__sdivBigInt 5 meth : Integer -> Integer
19:29:05 <Dulnes> so if its not by zero it can do it
19:29:13 <Jafet> You could try to install your own signal handler
19:29:31 <idris-bot> \{meth1} => prim__sdivBigInt 0 meth : Integer -> Integer
19:30:16 <ais523> it didn't run, I only gave it one argument
19:30:30 <ais523> so I asked it for the concept of dividing 0 by something
19:30:37 <idris-bot> flip (\{meth0} => \{meth1} => prim__sdivBigInt meth meth) 0 : Integer -> Integer
19:30:45 <ais523> whereas that's the concept of dividing something by zero
19:30:53 <Melvar> The thing is, idris is written in Haskell. The repl uses a haskell implementation, which for that primitive throws an exception. The repl runs under an appropriate catch, ideslave does not. The question is how and where to insert the catch into ideslave and produce a proper response in the protocol.
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19:36:12 <Dulnes> so when the math/compilation section/file made
19:36:27 <J_Arcane> ... https://github.com/naetech/nightrain
19:37:31 <Dulnes> i already know of this
19:40:28 <Dulnes> > 551672727178263718277272/8766
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19:54:00 <idris-bot> flip (\{meth0} => \{meth1} => prim__sdivBigInt meth meth) 65 : Integer -> Integer
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20:01:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rasen]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41050&oldid=40985 * 192.52.109.131 * (-10) /* Cat Program */
20:01:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
20:01:56 <J_Arcane> Unicomp wants $68 to ship one of their Keyboards to Finland ...
20:06:19 -!- ais523 has joined.
20:07:41 <ais523_> so this is why my laptop is running out of power while suspended
20:07:42 <J_Arcane> Dulnes: PRobably because they only ship internationall through FedEx (which is grossly overpriced) and because the keyboard weighs 5.5 lbs...
20:07:48 <ais523_> something's making it spontaneously turn itself on
20:07:58 <ais523_> just this time, it was close enough to a wi-fi access point that I caught it on IRC
20:11:57 <ais523_> hmm, now I'm wondering why no pingout
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20:22:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:My Unreliable Past]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41051&oldid=41049 * BCompton * (+209) /* IO */
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20:33:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:My Unreliable Past]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41052&oldid=41051 * Ais523 * (+517) /* IO */ fail chance of Hello World
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20:46:30 <ais523_> is it just me, or is the proportion of the wiki made of bad BF derivatives going down?
20:46:36 <ais523_> or did someone just rig up Special:Random to disfavour them?
20:47:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:My Unreliable Past]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41053&oldid=41052 * BCompton * (+139) /* IO */
20:48:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[My Unreliable Past]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41054&oldid=41048 * BCompton * (-11) /* Hello, world! */
20:48:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:My Unreliable Past]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41055&oldid=41053 * BCompton * (+86) /* IO */ Forgot my sig
20:51:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:My Unreliable Past]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41056&oldid=41055 * BCompton * (+4) /* IO */
20:52:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[My Unreliable Past]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41057&oldid=41054 * BCompton * (+7) /* Hello, world! */
20:53:43 <ais523_> bleh, 11, if I count C-INTERCAL as a language I created
20:53:58 <ais523_> which I guess I do because I put in so many of the features that make it different from other impls
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21:45:54 <newsham> http://studio.code.org/s/frozen/stage/1/puzzle/1
21:48:36 <int-e> http://studio.code.org/assets/spinner-big-c3078e9dccaffcd3763893a183dde788.gif
21:49:03 <int-e> Why does nothing ever work without Javascript anymore. Oh well I guess that saves me a ton of time.
21:49:22 <ais523_> int-e: I was looking at some web pages in w3m earlier
21:49:46 <ais523_> and complaining "why does this page need frames" and "why does that page need the ability to show the 'title' of an element"
21:52:01 <vanila> its good that this uses javascript
21:52:11 <vanila> something like this would normally be using flash
22:02:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:My Unreliable Past]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41058&oldid=41056 * Ais523 * (+322) /* IO */ that looks about right
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22:06:19 <ais523_> wow, has TDWTF screwed up their website
22:06:34 <ais523_> it has horizontally scrolling portions that you can't actually scroll because they're covered by transparent clickable areas
22:09:03 <Taneb> How oddly appropriate
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22:23:48 <L8D> what's that one esoteric LC with just s, k and ` ?
22:24:19 <ais523_> L8D: are you thinking of Unlambda?
22:24:25 <ais523_> that's a Turing-complete subset of Unlambda
22:24:28 <ais523_> although it has other commands
22:24:35 <ais523_> you might also be thinking of Lazy K
22:24:46 <L8D> someone from this channel authored it
22:24:50 <ais523_> or "SK combinator calculus" which is the mathematical name for that subset
22:25:16 <L8D> yes I'm familiar with sk combinator calculus
22:25:30 <L8D> someone figured out a way to denote precedence using only a single character
22:25:40 <ais523_> that's copied from Unlambda
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22:26:04 <L8D> that was the other language they mentioned
22:26:04 <elliott> there's that bird one slereah did
22:26:09 <ais523_> you can compile SK into Underload
22:26:15 <elliott> it sounds like unlambda to me though
22:26:24 <elliott> except unlambda has extra stuff
22:26:26 <L8D> they had some sort of name for it though
22:26:26 <ais523_> (that's how Underload was originally proved TC)
22:26:31 <ais523_> but it has a bunch of extra stuff
22:26:40 <ais523_> L8D: perhaps you're thinking of Iota? only that has just the one combinator
22:27:27 <L8D> the name has something to do with binary or byte
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22:28:21 <tromp_> why do you need to denote precedence with s&k ?
22:28:44 <L8D> because: s (k s)
22:28:55 <L8D> is different than: s k s
22:29:10 <tromp_> but these esolangs use prefix apply, where it's not an issue
22:29:19 <ais523_> those examples are `s`ks and ``sks in Unlambda syntax
22:29:33 <ais523_> tromp_: well, you can think of prefix apply as being a precedence marker
22:29:41 <ais523_> just like $ exists mostly for precedence in Haskell
22:30:27 <tromp_> so L8D, how does what you have in mind differ from Lazy K?
22:30:48 <tromp_> using a binary notation?
22:31:01 <L8D> because the interpreter was an entry to some competition on obfuscated C
22:31:08 <L8D> and it didn't have i
22:31:17 <tromp_> my precursor to BLC was a binary combinatory logic
22:31:22 <ais523_> L8D: if you want binary notation, Jot?
22:31:33 <L8D> I remember jot being mentioned
22:32:04 <L8D> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Binary_lambda_calculus
22:32:09 <L8D> ^ it was an interpreter for that
22:32:30 <tromp_> http://www.ioccc.org/2012/tromp/hint.html
22:32:42 <tromp_> http://www.ioccc.org/2012/tromp/tromp.c
22:33:13 <tromp_> so that's not s and k :)
22:35:38 <L8D> I wish I had an awesome last name like "tromp"
22:35:49 <tromp_> just a regular Dutch name
22:36:36 <L8D> I wish I had an awesome Dutch name
22:36:51 <L8D> tromp_: is 'biel' a ditch last name?
22:36:57 <L8D> I thought it was french
22:36:57 <vanila> http://homepages.cwi.nl/~tromp/
22:37:14 <vanila> your sokoban link is deda http://www.gamegate.com/othergames.jsp?NAVID=1&GAMEID=12
22:37:47 <tromp_> i don't know any Dutch called biel
22:38:32 <L8D> why are there so many programmers in the netherlands?
22:38:54 <L8D> I've met like 50
22:40:56 <Taneb> I inherited an awesome dutch surname
22:41:01 <tromp_> http://www.gamegate.com/games.jsp was still working on jun 28 2014; maybe they'll come back
22:41:34 <ais523_> tromp_: now I'm trying to remember exactly what it is
22:43:17 <Taneb> ais523_, do you want me to tell you?
22:43:22 <Taneb> (it's pretty easy to find)
22:43:25 <tromp_> google Taneb and you'll see :)
22:43:48 <ais523_> it's been mentioned on here before, you may as well mention it again
22:44:04 <ais523_> I thought it might be that, but I wasn't sure
22:44:15 <ais523_> hmm, that name arguably becomes even more awesome if overkerned
22:44:25 <Taneb> ais523_, see my article on the wiki
22:44:34 <Taneb> In a graphical browser
22:45:18 <ais523_> is that /intentionally/ overkerned?
22:45:24 <ais523_> or is the font just broken?
22:45:50 <ais523_> haha, I didn't even know it was possible to put styling in DISPLAYTITLE
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22:46:11 <ais523_> it is very slightly too wide to work correctly on this browser, though
22:46:23 <Taneb> It looks overoverkerned to me
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22:48:06 <ais523_> it's underoverkerned if you want it to actually look exactly like an 'm'
22:48:10 <vanila> i want to work on an esolang thing, any ideas
22:48:46 <Dulnes> So windows 9 cant be a thing because of the legacy source
22:49:32 <Dulnes> Also someone jailbroke and bootlegged a windows 2003 server onto The NES
22:49:58 <Dulnes> i know just wondering why ita terrible
22:50:09 <vanila> the NES has a 6502 CPU
22:50:14 <vanila> how do you run windows 2003 on that
22:50:23 <Dulnes> yeah my friends me a.link
22:50:30 <Dulnes> i just wanna see if its true
22:50:31 <ais523_> vanila: Dulnes apparently runs IRC bots on Windows 95, that connect via the web interface
22:50:43 <vanila> I use internet explorer on Windows 95
22:51:19 <elliott> I used windows 95 in a VM as my main OS for a short while
22:51:23 <elliott> the aesthetic is definitely good
22:51:37 <vanila> I just need a hard drive and thn I can use windows 95 for real
22:51:49 <ais523_> elliott: I used Windows 95 back when it was the world's most widely used consumer OS
22:51:58 <ais523_> it was a step forwards from many things
22:51:58 <Taneb> I have a Windows 98 computer somewhere
22:52:06 <Taneb> It hasn't been turned on in a while but it still probably works
22:52:10 <vanila> I don't know how to get a cheap hard drive
22:54:00 <ais523_> I saw lots of posts recommending Newegg on Slashdot, but I'm suspicious because they have the same owner
22:54:17 <ais523_> and Slashdot's owners have infinite mod points
22:54:23 <vanila> what is the cutting edge in esolang research?
22:54:33 <ais523_> I posted My Unreliable Past recently
22:55:49 <ais523_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/My_Unreliable_Past
22:56:02 <ais523_> Esolang URLs are predictable enough that you can just type them, rather than using Google
22:56:08 <ais523_> @google my unreliable past
22:56:09 <lambdabot> http://productforums.google.com/d/msg/youtube/ZIP2LmHL1Ro/_8uLjgZEJYoJ
22:56:19 <ais523_> I don't know if I want to follow that link
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22:58:18 <Taneb> ais523_, some I wouldn't want to type
22:58:25 <oerjan> ^wiki My Unreliable Past
22:58:25 <fungot> http://esolangs.org/wiki/My Unreliable Past
22:58:28 <Taneb> Like Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
22:58:35 <ais523_> ^^wiki needs to URL escape
22:58:43 <oerjan> fungot: you need better escaping hth
22:58:43 <fungot> oerjan: once you know how hard it would be great if we actually had a thought lately. i feel fnord
22:58:46 <Taneb> Or Eodermdrome (because I can never remember how to spell it)
22:58:58 <ais523_> Taneb: you spelt it correctly
22:59:14 <ais523_> but even if you can't remember, just keep moving the letters around until they don't form a planar graph
22:59:57 <Taneb> Oh, heh, I didn't realise it was a non-planar graph
23:00:28 <oerjan> Taneb: eodermdrome is a word constructed to be the shortest possible representation of a complete graph of 5 letters
23:00:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
23:00:43 <oerjan> and it's older than the language
23:00:59 <Taneb> Much like Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
23:01:35 <Taneb> Which is also designed to be a complete graph, or something
23:01:56 <ais523_> the word inspired the language
23:02:10 <fungot> +15[>+4>+7>+7>+8<4-]>3-.>-4..<2+7.<-2.-11..>2-3.<+3.>2-5.-3.<-4.>+2.<+6.<.<-.>3+.+3.<.<2+.>+4.>+2.+2.-2.<2.,[.,]
23:02:28 <Taneb> I think with Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download, the language was created to fill the name
23:02:31 <ais523_> that looks suspiciously bf_txtgenned
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23:02:43 <Taneb> But I kind of wanted to make a language like that already
23:02:46 <oerjan> ais523_: it's basically just printing http://esolangs.org/wiki/ and then an ordinary cat
23:02:54 <ais523_> Taneb: was that a spambot name? or did you just want something that looked like a spambot name
23:03:02 <ais523_> and the constant string is bf_txtgenned
23:03:05 <Taneb> ais523_, it was a spambot name
23:03:14 <Taneb> I believe elliott suggested it should be made a language
23:03:17 <oerjan> so making it escape will take some major expansion
23:03:23 <ais523_> you can tell because it uses two working cells of size 7*15
23:03:45 <olsner> I guess it should be possible to find the IRC logs of when that happened
23:04:04 <vanila> (Set A to 100 with high probability... around 1/589 chance of failure)
23:04:26 <oerjan> hm i recall there was this spam page name everyone agreed needed to be made a language but no one has iirc
23:05:07 <Taneb> codu.org doesn't seeeeeem to be loading
23:05:08 <oerjan> vanila: on the wiki. i don't remember the name, also the page may have been deleted (it was spam, after all)
23:05:15 <oerjan> Taneb: i noticed, switched to tunes
23:05:43 <oerjan> i thought my connection was flaky again, but downforeveryoneorjustme agreed
23:05:50 <Taneb> Awww, I have to download a .zip of pre-2013 logs
23:06:11 <oerjan> Gregor: codu.org seems to be down hth
23:06:39 <vanila> this is very interesting ais523_
23:07:04 <ais523_> I try to make my languages interesting
23:07:07 -!- augur has joined.
23:07:14 <ais523_> the life of creating 100 awful BF derivatives is not for me
23:07:18 <oerjan> Gregor: google doesn't know that acronym tdnh
23:07:20 <vanila> i wouldnt' want to program in it though
23:07:46 <ais523_> since when was "people want to program in it" a requirement for an esolang? :-)
23:07:53 <ais523_> although apparently at least one person does want to prorgam in it
23:07:54 <Gregor> The nameserver is down >_O
23:08:15 <Taneb> I try to have an idea then make a language out of it
23:08:34 <Taneb> Like, Fueue was mostly "Underload with a queue instead of two stacks"
23:08:46 <Gregor> Yeah, codu isn't down, its nameservers are down and everybody's abandoned it because of that.
23:08:57 <vanila> maybe i coul contribute to esolangs some way other than inventing one
23:09:02 <vanila> any suggestions for that?
23:09:09 <Gregor> oerjan: It seemed unlikely that codu was down since I'm connected thru it :3
23:09:20 <Taneb> vanila, try implementing Eodermdrome!
23:09:33 <ais523_> vanila: writing interpreters; computational class analyses; writing programs; cross-implementation (i.e. implementing one esolang in another)
23:10:02 <oerjan> Gregor: well i meant the web page, naturally
23:10:15 <oerjan> `echo other things not included
23:10:26 <vanila> are there any markers on the wiki for things that need done?
23:10:51 <oerjan> vanila: Category:Stubs is the closest thing
23:10:52 <vanila> reading about Eodermdrome
23:10:53 <Gregor> oerjan: The web page is up... by some definition ;)
23:11:11 <fizzie> Category:Unimplemented exists, too, but it's not quite that.
23:12:18 <ais523_> Eodermdrome is NP-hard to implement efficiently, isn't it?
23:12:40 <olsner> something graph isomorphism something?
23:12:40 <oerjan> ais523_: well except for the bounded number of letters
23:12:52 <oerjan> which means it's _technically_ in P, i think.
23:13:16 <oerjan> although probably with quite a high exponent
23:14:10 <oerjan> also some people have suggested the spec does not exclude unicode letters (which won't change it from P since unicode is also finite, but may make it easier to program)
23:15:00 <Taneb> Found the logs about how Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download gained its name
23:15:34 <vanila> I thought of anew keyboard layout but i made a mistake
23:15:40 <Taneb> And huh, I made the language before the name?
23:16:26 <ais523_> oerjan: it was meant to, but I sort-of believe that esolangs can outgrow their authors
23:16:31 <oerjan> vanila: make it one that doesn't leave out alot of spaces after as hth
23:16:36 <ais523_> unless the spec is obviously nonsensical or self-contradictory
23:17:07 <vanila> http://i.imgur.com/NoylOuA.png
23:17:54 <oerjan> vanila: it's jumps not jumped, otherwise you miss s
23:18:17 <vanila> I need a list of all valid sentences which use every letter once
23:18:25 <vanila> then I can choose the best keybaord layout from it
23:18:38 <ais523_> vanila: there are a lot of such sentences
23:18:39 <vanila> idea: the keys chance every time you press one in some permutation
23:18:44 <ais523_> infinitely many, most likely
23:18:55 <vanila> there is less than 26!
23:18:55 <oerjan> you probably want to drop the duplicate letters
23:19:09 <vanila> when I said once I meant not more than once and not less
23:19:13 <oerjan> vanila: um there are probably no valid sentences that do that
23:20:02 <oerjan> for one thing, vowels are too much rarer than consonants
23:20:10 <ais523_> oerjan: there are some very contrived sentences
23:20:27 <ais523_> or, well, the one that was the solution to the Enigma metapuzzle at Agora is two sentences
23:20:33 <ais523_> "Zing! Vext cwm fly jabs Kurd qoph"
23:21:14 <fizzie> I think I've seen the "Mr. Jock, TV quiz PhD, bags few lynx" one (one of the first google-hits) somewhere.
23:21:25 <fizzie> http://www.fun-with-words.com/pang_example.html lists six examples.
23:21:31 <oerjan> i suppose welsh helps with the vowels :P
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23:22:01 <vanila> Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex bud.
23:22:01 <Sgeo> Was at JSSummit today
23:22:14 <oerjan> vanila: i spot two i's
23:22:18 <Sgeo> One of the presenters apparently didn't try out their examples and didn't understand people's confusion
23:22:59 <oerjan> and assuming all letters are there, that's all
23:23:19 <oerjan> > sort "Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex bud"
23:23:38 <ais523_> oerjan: it has all letters
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23:25:20 <vanila> howdo i find all graph based esolangs?
23:25:58 <ais523_> not sure we have a category for that
23:26:02 <oerjan> you can search for "graph" if not
23:26:13 <vanila> TURKEY BOMB, the first known programming-language-cum-drinking-game, evolved independently on four seperate continents and was widely used as an implementation base for computer operating systems for several centuries.
23:26:14 <fizzie> Category:Non-textual is not large.
23:26:24 <fizzie> Assuming all of them have been correctly categorized.
23:26:34 <oerjan> fizzie: um eodermdrome isn't non-textual, but still graph-based
23:27:19 <fizzie> Well, Eodermdrome's not in any useful category, so clearly there are none.
23:27:37 <fizzie> http://www.rinkworks.com/words/pangrams.shtml "Glum Schwartzkopf vex'd by NJ IQ."
23:27:55 <oerjan> there might not be that many. i recall kolmogorov machine and andrei machine, or something.
23:28:24 <oerjan> hm Graph mentions Cvlemar
23:29:07 <fizzie> On the Rinkworks page, the 29-letter "Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow" is very non-contrived.
23:29:18 <vanila> so I like the idea of graph based languages
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23:29:28 <vanila> but it should be efficient to implement
23:29:44 <oerjan> anyway, searching for "graph" throws up several relevant pages.
23:29:50 <fizzie> There's Grasp, but it's sadly incomplete.
23:29:59 * Sgeo decides to repeat himself here
23:30:06 <Sgeo> FnOnce occurs in nature, outside of Rust: Languages like Python that support generators can use an easy syntax for some monads. Which monads? Exactly those monads whose >>= takes an FnOnce as a continuation. Option, but not List
23:30:12 <vanila> or are you using google?
23:30:13 <oerjan> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?search=graph&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=1
23:30:31 <vanila> when I used search ti took me straight to graph page, i gues theres another search box
23:30:47 <elliott> we have seriously differing definitions of the word "nature"
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23:31:12 <oerjan> vanila: no, but you need to use the "containing" option in the menu if there is a page by the same name
23:31:13 <vanila> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wire-crossing_problem
23:31:19 <vanila> I should make a language based on planar graphs
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23:35:32 <oerjan> Sgeo: i think that may be the same monads as https://hackage.haskell.org/package/STMonadTrans works for
23:36:10 <Sgeo> Ooh so Rust is more type safe than Haskell?
23:36:25 <oerjan> in that case, presumably
23:36:42 <oerjan> haskell lacks those pesky uniqueness types
23:37:14 <Sgeo> If I see a mistake in a Stackoverflow answer, should I just fix it?
23:37:22 <Sgeo> It's a trivial mistake but a compilation error nontheless
23:38:05 <oerjan> Sgeo: no. make a comment instead. i've been burned on that myself.
23:38:20 <Sgeo> "Edits must be at least 6 characters; is there something else to improve in this post?"
23:38:26 <Sgeo> But... it's a 5 character mistake.
23:38:51 <oerjan> unless you've got enough rep _not_ to need it confirmed by random strangers who may not even know the language you're fixing, don't even try
23:39:42 <oerjan> i got so annoyed at SO's policy on code edits that i pledged not to do them again.
23:39:59 <oerjan> (even though i now _do_ have enough rep)
23:41:22 <Sgeo> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27022848/how-to-mutate-struct-field-in-method#comment42580981_27023282
23:43:20 <oerjan> i think that went well
23:44:04 <Sgeo> The original author can make smaller edits apparently
23:44:17 <vanila> I couldn't figure out how to use ST with ListT
23:44:34 <vanila> someone said it could be done with MonadPrompt but it is hard
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23:45:06 <vanila> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esoteric_Awards
23:45:33 <Sgeo> Am I expected to upvote that reply?
23:45:43 <oerjan> Sgeo: i don't think so
23:46:43 <oerjan> upvotes are for useful information, afaict
23:47:16 <vanila> http://www.vb-helper.com/FourColorMap1Solved.gif
23:47:36 <vanila> i dont know what the language is yet though
23:48:21 <vanila> you would draw the graph and color it in i guess
23:48:35 <vanila> with 4 cours other wise the program is invalid
23:48:52 <oerjan> vanila: have you seen piet? that's not graph-based though, only color
23:49:40 <Sgeo> "Hmmm... I think it would classify as days+1 days"
23:49:53 <vanila> I wonder how to make ti into something programmable
23:49:55 <tromp_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_machine
23:50:21 <oerjan> tromp_: was mentioned, also in the search link
23:50:52 <vanila> something like game of life is turing complete
23:50:57 <vanila> so it should be easy to make this turing complete
23:51:02 <vanila> but it willb e hard to make it human programmable
23:53:16 <vanila> if you input a picture for your pogram its not turing complete
23:53:22 <vanila> at least not just by recoloring the graph
23:53:29 <vanila> yu'd need a way to store unbounded amounts of data
23:53:35 <vanila> i dont know how that is possible
23:58:29 <vanila> http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%84%92