00:00:02 <oerjan> oh wait that's obviously buggy
00:03:34 <oerjan> hm the fact that henkma managed to get the slow solution down to 53 chars is intriguing, since i haven't managed to get my fast ones down to 54...
00:03:47 <Taneb> I need to make my computer not-broken :(
00:04:01 <oerjan> Taneb: you need an un-axe hth
00:04:16 <Taneb> oerjan, I ordered one off Amazon
00:04:39 <oerjan> be careful to keep it away from firewood btw
00:04:56 <oerjan> don't want a tree suddenly growing in the living room
00:05:38 <oerjan> shachaf: i suggest testing that far from inhabited areas hth
00:05:46 <oerjan> possibly away from the planet
00:09:05 <Taneb> oerjan, we don't have a fireplace, that's not much of an issue
00:09:09 <Taneb> But I'll bear that in mind
00:18:02 <Taneb> How would you go about making a gold-backed cryptocurrency?
00:18:42 <vanila> Taneb, that doesn't make sense
00:18:51 <Taneb> vanila, that's half the point
00:18:54 <vanila> the point of a cryptocurrency is that its backed by crypto
00:19:00 <lambdabot> ESSA 202350Z 03005KT 6000 BR SCT009 BKN013 04/04 Q1030 R88/29//95 TEMPO 4000 BKN004
00:19:02 <vanila> you can't e.g. speed up encryption with gold
00:19:08 <vanila> unless you count the gold parts in your computer
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00:19:28 <Taneb> (essentially, this is me being silly and wondering if it is actually possible)
00:19:47 <lambdabot> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_coin_(United_States)
00:19:48 <lambdabot> Title: Dollar coin (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
00:19:50 <elliott> @google dollarcoin proof of dollar
00:19:55 <lambdabot> http://catalog.usmint.gov/presidential-2014-one-dollar-coin-proof-set-PE4.html
00:19:55 <lambdabot> Title: Presidential 2014 One Dollar Coin Proof Set - US Mint
00:20:03 <oerjan> Taneb: i think i've seen the idea somewhere
00:20:08 <oerjan> i suspect so has elliott
00:20:16 <elliott> @google dollarcoin sigbovik
00:20:17 <Taneb> oerjan, I maaaaay have mentioned it in the past, but dollarcoin? HMMM
00:21:36 <oerjan> you know, that could actually be interesting if it was still otherwise anonymous...
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00:23:42 <vanila> http://alexey.radul.name/ideas/2013/cleverness-of-compilers/
00:24:20 -!- nasabot has changed nick to dts.
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00:26:49 <oerjan> i don't think IE likes that mandelbrot program :(
00:27:10 <vanila> are you on windows 96?
00:28:11 <oerjan> it just froze for a few seconds, but it wasn't as bad as i feared
00:34:16 * FireFly confiscates oerjan's swatter
00:34:53 <oerjan> it's ok, it always gets back somehow
00:35:19 <shachaf> that's because it's not an actual swatter, it's just you pressing some keys on your keyboard to type some ascii art
00:35:27 <int-e> > cycle "swatter "
00:35:28 <lambdabot> "swatter swatter swatter swatter swatter swatter swatter swatter swatter swa...
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00:35:52 <oerjan> i'd swat you but someone stole my swatter.
00:36:16 <int-e> shachaf has a point; next time, we should confiscate oerjan's keys
00:37:23 <int-e> AAnn eexxttrraa sseett ooff kkeeyyss wwoouulldd ssuurreellyy cccoommee iinn hhaannddyy..
00:37:27 <shachaf> oerjan: i was looking for past swattings in logs but i keep finding bf programs hth
00:37:46 <int-e> oh, a triplicate c, how did that happen.
00:38:22 <int-e> ttyyppiinngg lliikkee tthhiiss iiss ssuurrpprriissiinnggllyy hhaarrdd..
00:38:40 <oerjan> hm programming challenge: write "Hello, world!" in your favorite language, but using only doubled characters
00:39:21 <oerjan> (a hello world program, that is)
00:39:29 <vanila> i'd be surprised if thats possible!
00:39:41 <oerjan> there's probably _some_ language_ in which it is.
00:39:44 <int-e> let's see. brainfuck is out; unlambda is out; haskell is out ...
00:40:03 <MDude> The "" always mathcing with itself could be a problem.
00:40:08 <oerjan> are you sure brainfuck is out? hm i guess you can only get even byte values
00:40:56 <shachaf> my favorite language is cut -c1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,27,29 hth
00:42:01 <oerjan> is haskell on the ghci command line out
00:42:38 <vanila> invent new language where even second byte is ignored
00:42:57 <oerjan> i think we shall ignore previously undefined languages
00:43:14 <oerjan> you can just start with vv
00:43:35 <oerjan> admittedly every second line must be empty
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00:43:49 <shachaf> newlines have to be doubled too
00:43:51 <oerjan> but this seems not as obviously impossible
00:44:00 <oerjan> shachaf: that's equivalent to what i said
00:44:16 <shachaf> if i had read what you said i wouldn't have said what i said
00:44:44 <int-e> What about BLC, hmm. The text version won't do the trick, but the 8 bit version could have enough degrees of freedom.
00:46:24 <shachaf> oerjan: hmm, in haskell you can write [[qq||bbllaahh||]]
00:46:39 <shachaf> conveniently qq is a doubled letter and all the quasiquoters are called qq
00:47:06 <shachaf> But I don't think you'll manage to import anything to use them.
00:47:41 <oerjan> shachaf: inconveniently, {{--##LLAANNGGUUAAGGEE QQuuaassiiQQuuoottees##--}} isn't what you want
00:47:55 <int-e> -- aatt lleeaasstt yyoouu ccaann hhaavvee ccoommmmeennttss..
00:48:09 <shachaf> oerjan: oh, come on, jjuusstt ppuutt iitt in the cabal file
00:48:13 <shachaf> that doesn't have to be doubled
00:48:17 <int-e> oerjan: you forgot to double the 's' there, hth
00:48:55 <oerjan> ...ok maybe that's a bit too far
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00:51:32 <int-e> oerjan: yeah, maybe.
00:52:04 <ion> wwee mmiigghhtt nneeeedd ttoo ddiissaabbllee llooccaall eecchhoo..
00:52:25 <shachaf> oerjan: at least you can compile c files
00:53:02 <oerjan> the combinator calculus style can be used somewhat
00:53:41 <oerjan> ((((KK))((KK)))) gives K
00:53:57 <int-e> ``((II))MN works for application
00:53:58 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `((II))MN: not found
00:54:15 <int-e> oh, that's not even necessary
00:54:20 <oerjan> int-e: you can mix styles? although you don't need it
00:54:23 <MDude> Is there a language where two escape characters causes the character after the second escape character to be ignored?
00:54:38 <oerjan> so the question is, can we get S
00:55:09 <elliott> oerjan: you have K, so yes.
00:55:39 <int-e> ((00)) is a shorter K.
00:55:54 <oerjan> int-e: i didn't know you could mix styles, i said
00:57:09 <int-e> ((KK((KK))SS)) looks kind of pretty
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01:18:57 <ion> http://www.varissuonliikekeskus.fi/staff/12-K-Supermarket_Annika_7757.jpg
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01:27:43 <FreeFull> I should learn how to work with SKI calculus at some point
01:30:33 <Taneb> It's generally easier to work in lambda calculus and translate
01:37:12 <Taneb> I can't get in my head what a quotient group is :(
01:37:42 <Bicyclidine> it's like, you have a group, but then add an equivalence class based on some other group.
01:37:53 <int-e> why? you just take the congruence classes of a congruence relation on some group.
01:38:18 <Bicyclidine> because when someone asks what it is they say something like that, int-e
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01:40:12 <int-e> If examples work for you, that's how you get from addition on Z to addition in Z/kZ (i.e. modulo k): you take the relation that relates a and b if a-b is divisible by k.
01:47:02 <oerjan> the special thing about groups and things inheriting from groups is that the congruence relations are determined by the set of elements congruent to the identity.
01:47:25 <oerjan> this does not hold e.g. for semigroups and monoids
01:48:58 <Bicyclidine> i guess i think of it with sameness. Z/2Z is the integers except all even integers (2Z) are the same. so 2 = 4 = 6. Since 3 = 2 + 1, 3 = 5 = 7. so you're left with {0,1} and they add in a modulary way.
01:53:54 <int-e> Right, where 0 is a representative for 2Z and 1 represents 2Z+1.
01:57:55 <oerjan> <Taneb> TONIGHT I WILL BAKE A CAKE MAYBE <-- did this happen
01:58:07 <Taneb> Did other things instead
01:58:18 <oerjan> WELL THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM
01:58:19 <Taneb> And tomorrow instead of going to cakenight I will be playing D&D
01:59:18 <int-e> . o O ( drunk & depressed )
02:00:40 <Taneb> I don't think that is why I didn't make cake
02:01:32 <MDude> Fumbled your baking roll?
02:02:53 <oerjan> critical failure, cake eaten by monster
02:03:06 <oerjan> (also ate half of party)
02:03:16 <Taneb> (joining an in-progress game as a barbarian)
02:04:07 <Taneb> Which is a little out of my comfort zone, but it could be fun
02:04:18 <oerjan> timeo barbaros, et placentas ferentes
02:06:07 <Taneb> If my Latin is up to scratch, that summarizes most of my D&D characters
02:06:45 <Taneb> Although my character in an upcoming not-D&D game is definitely neither, being literally Silvio Burlusconi
02:07:30 <oerjan> is the misspelling intentional twh
02:09:10 <Taneb> The game will be about; the year is 2020 and the G8 are having to deal with First Contact
02:09:58 <Taneb> Anyway I should sleep
02:10:16 <oerjan> so literally fictionally literally
02:13:00 <Taneb> (I'm assuming as soon as his bad on holding public office is over Berlusconi will weasel his way back into power)
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02:52:45 <shachaf> How does Anagol scoring work? Do you get 10000 points per language per problem if you're the only person to solve that problem with that language?
02:54:02 <shachaf> It sounds like if you wanted to get lots of points, you would autogenerate inefficient solutions for every available language for every problem, rather than spend time golfing.
03:02:46 <FireFly> I think only the shortest solution overall for a problem gets 10000
03:04:36 <shachaf> What, so people writing in golfscript or what have you always get the points?
03:05:24 <FireFly> If by golfscript you mean burlesque
03:06:25 <FireFly> I don't think the score is accumulated anyhow, so I'm not sure how meaningful it is
03:07:36 <oerjan> pretty sure golfscript sometimes beats burlesque...
03:08:39 <oerjan> also yes it is http://golf.shinh.org/u.rb
03:10:01 <shachaf> oerjan: is there anything i can do at this point to not appear on that page twh
03:10:53 * oerjan doesn't actually know but thinks shachaf should chill
03:13:38 <oerjan> huh i'm already at 28th place in haskell
03:16:02 <oerjan> hm zzo38 is a bit below but he has a better average
03:16:17 <oerjan> there should be some way to sort by average
03:17:08 <int-e> shachaf: I suppose if you were to send the owner a mail asking nicely then he'd remove you from the database.
03:17:38 <shachaf> int-e: i have decided to chill
03:19:12 <oerjan> int-e: i think i essentially found your 57 char solution
03:20:16 <int-e> oh I had not found the per language user lists.
03:21:21 <int-e> ok, that rank is not very meaningful.
03:21:40 <oerjan> when you have >9000 average the rest is basically just stamina
03:26:32 <oerjan> i have a hunch the only non-alpha difference is that you use ; where i use newline
03:27:35 <shachaf> Aren't those both non-alpha?
03:27:45 <oerjan> shachaf: alpha equivalence, i mean
03:27:57 <shachaf> I thought you were counting symbols.
03:28:10 <oerjan> thus concluding int-e uses ;
03:28:21 <oerjan> (which is no surprise since he always does)
03:28:37 <oerjan> http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?different+letters+parity
03:28:57 <oerjan> i couldn't bring myself to remove the quotes while it's still erroring out at the end
03:29:05 <shachaf> I wonder how leonid did 26 characters in Ruby.
03:34:03 <shachaf> You have 51 characters for a cheating solution?
03:35:03 <oerjan> i haven't started on the cheating yet
03:35:12 <oerjan> just found out how you got the 162450548
03:35:47 <shachaf> Oh, you said you found the 57 solution. Never mind.
03:38:17 <oerjan> first cheat attempt was longer than the proper one :P
03:39:00 <int-e> embedding "0010111000110011011101011001" gives me 52 characters.
03:39:17 <shachaf> int-e: Yes. That one's easy.
03:39:37 <oerjan> so converting from a number doesn't pay, ok
03:39:40 <shachaf> I was wondering whether you could go lower while embedding it as a string, but I don't think so.
03:40:21 <shachaf> int-e: that's a long way of writing True. 1>0 is shorter hth
03:40:45 <int-e> shachaf: thanks for the advice
03:40:49 <oerjan> int-e: i just sort of assumed if you get that close, it's more likely you just adjusted that a bit...
03:41:21 <oerjan> maybe thinking like that is a reason i don't get the golfing :(
03:42:30 <oerjan> i'm not even sure how you get the PID in haskell, but i'm assuming it needs an import.
03:42:47 <int-e> oerjan: well you know it's wrong; but it's really hard to get over one self and start a solution from scratch.
03:43:30 <oerjan> wait, are we talking golfing or life guidance here
03:44:37 <int-e> The easiest is System.Posix.getProcessID I think
03:45:32 <int-e> oerjan: I'm talking about golf, but that doesn't mean what I'm saying is not more widely applicable.
03:45:57 <shachaf> int-e: is it applicable to code golf too?
03:47:19 <int-e> shachaf: ... I'd clarify but you know exactly what I meant. Where'd that mapole bat get to?
03:48:37 <shachaf> all we have left are hungus prods and saucepans
03:48:54 <shachaf> and oerjan's hoarding the saucepan
03:49:12 <oerjan> well boily has the mapole, but he's not around
03:49:33 <int-e> oerjan: can you test the resonant frequency of that pan on shachaf?
03:49:34 <shachaf> he's usually pretty gentle with it, anyway
03:49:57 <int-e> I should think of a weapon of my own.
03:50:12 <oerjan> something more int-elligent
03:51:02 <shachaf> what does your nick mean, anyway
03:51:07 * int-e sprays shachaf with grey goo
03:51:25 <int-e> (I hope that's intelligent enough.)
03:53:36 <HackEgo> olist 968: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti
04:01:25 <shachaf> Oh, that's how the 51 solution works.
04:04:07 <oerjan> cojna's statistics seem a bit different
04:05:01 <int-e> oerjan: easy, don't use `` and don't use ;
04:05:36 <int-e> oh you have one more letter... interesting.
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04:08:54 <shachaf> fromEnum is also a v. long name
04:10:01 <oerjan> did you get a hint from my solution ...
04:10:25 <shachaf> Oh, there are several somewhat different 51 solutions.
04:10:33 <oerjan> i now have a second 51
04:10:49 <int-e> no hard hint, but the idea that one could get the same length with different number of alphanums put me on the right track
04:11:52 <int-e> and it's funny, I cannot match henkma's statistics.
04:12:31 <oerjan> which however match cojna's
04:13:44 <shachaf> is comparing solutions of the same length with someone else frowned upon
04:14:59 <int-e> I wouldn't do it. It's quite likely that there are distinct ideas in there.
04:15:16 <int-e> (which can be combined)
04:15:29 <shachaf> but can be combined by both parties
04:15:42 <int-e> putting third parties at a disadvantage
04:16:23 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure anagolf explicitly says you're allowed to release spoilers
04:17:10 <int-e> It does. I still wouldn't do it. :)
04:22:41 <oerjan> this is strangely similar to that A057755 sequence
04:23:17 <oerjan> once again, i have an idea for shortening by 2 that fails because it produces everything in the wrong order
04:23:18 <int-e> I don't know why you're stuck on A057755.
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04:24:00 <oerjan> well or 1 in the other case
04:24:07 <shachaf> That one was length (show (2^2^n))?
04:24:27 <int-e> shachaf: that's 2 spaces and another chracter too long
04:24:51 <int-e> (possibly 2, but that depends on the context)
04:25:33 <shachaf> i'm not golfing i'm communicating hth
04:26:17 <int-e> shachaf: just getting back at you for the "1>0 is shorter" snipe
04:26:32 <oerjan> anyway, the most trivial solution to that i thought of is 54 chars, which is 1 char too long.
04:26:52 <oerjan> and all my other approaches end up longer.
04:27:35 <oerjan> and int-e's solution is much faster than the trivial one.
04:27:52 <oerjan> although henkma's _isn't_, so maybe you can get it that way
04:28:14 <int-e> I still consider submitting the fast one a psychological success so far :P
04:28:45 <oerjan> shachaf: imprecisely, though
04:29:29 <shachaf> i have six slightly different 51 solutions
04:30:08 <oerjan> i just have 3. well i guess i erased some.
04:30:53 <lambdabot> (!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]]
04:30:56 <lambdabot> [show(sum$scanl div(100^n)[1..[4..]!!n])!!n|n<-[0..]]
04:31:36 <int-e> [4..]!!n <-- ouch, isn't that just n+4.
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04:32:17 <shachaf> > [show(sum$scanl div(100^n)[1..[4..]!!n])!!n|n<-[0..]]
04:32:19 <lambdabot> "271828182845904523536028747135266249775724709369995957496696762772407663035...
04:32:35 <int-e> > [show(sum$scanl div(100^n)[1..n+4])!!n|n<-[0..]]
04:32:36 <lambdabot> "2718281828150208757*Exception: Prelude.(!!): index too large
04:33:33 <shachaf> [0..]!! is another way to do fromInt
04:34:34 <J_Arcane> anyone have any thoughts on this? https://github.com/jarcane/heresy/issues/5
04:42:03 <int-e> damn, how did henkma do it...
04:45:54 <shachaf> oerjan: do you want to compare 51s
04:50:50 <shachaf> does anagol only check stdout?
04:51:12 <shachaf> what's the shortest way to write _|_?
04:51:30 <shachaf> well. to write a _|_ that crashes the program
04:51:33 <int-e> usually some kind of pattern match failure
04:51:36 <shachaf> or is terminating with timeout ok?
04:51:49 <shachaf> timing out with the right output
04:53:42 <oerjan> 1/0 looks pretty short
04:54:39 <oerjan> i've also had output get cut off when i tried to error out in pure code
04:54:51 <oerjan> as in, using interact rather than mapM print
04:55:59 <oerjan> if anagolf has blackholes enabled, then x=x should work...
04:56:04 <Sgeo> I wish I understood enough about My Little Pony to understand all of this https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD873B11F5D796B41
04:58:03 <oerjan> ah indeed blackholes work
04:58:42 <shachaf> Ah, that's one shorter than []!!0
04:58:55 <shachaf> Unless I use it more than once.
04:59:53 <shachaf> Right. Unless you use it more than once.
05:00:36 <int-e> in which case you may be bitten by the dreaded monomorphism restriction
05:01:08 <oerjan> in theory, you shouldn't
05:02:35 <shachaf> This approach is at 57 right now. I doubt it'll work.
05:02:57 <oerjan> well is it a non-cheating one
05:03:48 <oerjan> (where in this problem we define that as "actually solves the general problem rather than just printing the right output")
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05:12:39 <int-e> shachaf: I don't think I've ever written an explicit bottom while code golfing Haskell. Writing function with undefined cases, otoh, I've done quite a bit.
05:13:48 <shachaf> so that brings me back to 51
05:13:50 <int-e> and then there's this recurring pattern: m@main=getLine>>=f>>m, with termination on end of input because getLine fails.
05:15:42 <shachaf> is there a better way to write a _|_ base case than f n|n>0=...?
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05:20:10 * oerjan reverse engineer's shachaf's idea
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05:25:59 <int-e> oh I had one in my Make 24 entry, but indeed that wasn't worth it.
05:29:29 <int-e> > length "c%(x:y)|(a,b)<-divMod c x=b:a%y" - length "c%(x:y)=mod c x:(div c x)%y"
05:29:46 <int-e> err, and that's still 2 characters too long
05:30:16 <int-e> > length "c%(x:y)|(a,b)<-divMod c x=b:a%y" - length "c%(x:y)=mod c x:div c x%y"
05:31:01 <shachaf> I was pleased with this solution but it's too long. :-(
05:34:27 <int-e> > scanl (\x k->2*x+k+1) 0 [0,0,1,0,1,1,1,0,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1] -- hmm, no.
05:34:29 <lambdabot> [0,1,3,8,17,36,74,150,301,603,1207,2416,4834,9669,19339,38680,77362,154725,3...
05:34:38 <int-e> > foldl (\x k->2*x+k+1) 0 [0,0,1,0,1,1,1,0,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1]
05:35:08 <int-e> > foldl (\x k->2*x+k+1) 0 $ reverse [0,0,1,0,1,1,1,0,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1]
05:35:55 <shachaf> > preview binary "0010111000110011011101011001"
05:36:00 <shachaf> > preview binary $ reverse "0010111000110011011101011001"
05:36:46 <Dulnes> hhh what are you talking about now?
05:36:51 <oerjan> i've wanted to use 48445273 but i cannot get things to come out in the right order
05:37:24 <Dulnes> Why do you need binary?
05:37:45 <int-e> Dulnes: in essence, we're compressing this string: 0010111000110011011101011001
05:37:49 <oerjan> Dulnes: trying to solve a golfing problem with compression
05:38:21 <shachaf> Do people object to me posting 51 solutions?
05:39:02 <Dulnes> why would they object to 51?
05:39:27 <int-e> it's fun to discover tricks onself
05:40:27 <int-e> but I guess we've discussed this problem so much now that only getting below 51 is still a bit of a mystery
05:42:12 <shachaf> I used divMod for f(x,y)|x>0=print y>>f(x`divMod`2);main=f(215443002,0)
05:42:27 <shachaf> In theory it could actually help with that approach, maybe.
05:43:34 <Dulnes> Mmm have fun golfing im still trying not to break stuff
05:44:08 <int-e> > let f(x,y)|x>0=show y++f(x`divMod`2) in f(215443002,0)
05:44:09 <lambdabot> "0010111000110011011101011001*Exception: <interactive>:3:5-36: Non-exhaustiv...
05:45:15 <Dulnes> im awful at compressing stuff when it comes to this
05:46:47 <oerjan> wait what's the difference between 215443002 and 162450548 here
05:47:06 <int-e> > (162450548 + 2^28)`div`2
05:47:31 <shachaf> > let f(x,y)|x>0=show y++f(x`divMod`2) in f(162450548,0)
05:47:32 <lambdabot> "0001011100011001101110101100*Exception: <interactive>:3:5-36: Non-exhaustiv...
05:49:07 <oerjan> Dulnes: you can probably check if idris-bot is around in your client somehow
05:50:35 <oerjan> (trying to tab complete works for me)
05:51:04 <Dulnes> yeh /msg works but idk if it still shows functions it didnt last time i tried it didnt respond
05:51:40 <oerjan> um it cannot respond if it's not online
05:51:44 <int-e> shachaf is really close to a 49 character solution.
05:52:33 <shachaf> int-e: too late, i already gave up
05:52:40 <shachaf> but maybe now with your SPOILERS i'll try again
05:52:58 <Dulnes> 50 is more achievable imo
05:53:52 <shachaf> i like how |x<- is the same length as \x->
05:55:03 <Dulnes> oerjan: also you could have said it wasnt online so i didnt have to look for it
05:55:46 <oerjan> Dulnes: i've noticed you giving commands when it isn't here before, so i'd rather you find out how to check that yourself :P
05:56:07 <Dulnes> i never check the online tab tbh
05:56:24 <Dulnes> brb i must take that calc else where
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06:00:17 <int-e> (Of course, the divMod is not worth it in the end.)
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06:01:07 <Dulnes> whoops i didnt div it crap
06:01:13 <oerjan> um the variations with div and mod split are also 51
06:02:52 <shachaf> Dulnes: what are you doing
06:02:58 <shachaf> i don't understand any of the things you're saying
06:03:02 <shachaf> are you talking to someone here?
06:05:36 <Dulnes> myself idk whatever making notes?
06:06:06 <int-e> oerjan: I don't know how you could end up with 51 :)
06:06:41 <shachaf> Is oerjan just talking about f n|n>0=print(n`mod`2)>>f(n`div`2);main=f 162450548 ?
06:07:23 <oerjan> shachaf: no, i'm talking about main=f 162450548;f n|n>0=print(mod n 2)>>f(div n 2) hth
06:07:48 <int-e> oerjan: okay, but that's not shachaf's version.
06:08:09 <oerjan> int-e: it's what i reversed engineered from his hints before
06:08:44 <int-e> Anyway, I think I've said too much for you, and probably too little for shachaf.
06:09:43 <oerjan> (also, i had exactly those variable names)
06:11:09 <int-e> I had main=f 162450548;f n|n>0=print(n`mod`2)>>f(n`div`2)
06:11:35 <oerjan> i also don't see how the 215443002 thing would work without divMod and be shorter
06:11:56 <shachaf> did you also have main=mapM(\n->print$162450548`div`2^n`mod`2)[0..27]
06:12:00 <shachaf> or main=mapM print[mod(162450548`div`2^n)2|n<-[0..27]]
06:12:48 <oerjan> main=mapM print[mod(div 162450548$2^n)2|n<-[0..27]] hth
06:13:13 <oerjan> i have a point-free variant of the former
06:13:32 <shachaf> main=mapM(\n->print$162450548`div`2^n`mod`2)[0..27]
06:13:32 <shachaf> main=mapM(\n->print$mod(162450548`div`2^n)2)[0..27]
06:13:33 <shachaf> main=mapM(print.(`mod`2).div 162450548.(2^))[0..27]
06:13:33 <shachaf> main=mapM print[162450548`div`2^n`mod`2|n<-[0..27]]
06:13:33 <shachaf> main=mapM print[mod(162450548`div`2^n)2|n<-[0..27]]
06:13:52 <int-e> Now there's a route I didn't try at all.
06:14:07 <oerjan> see what you've done, now int-e will get 48
06:14:17 <int-e> that is ... unlikely.
06:14:18 <Dulnes> ( off topic ) whats the easiesr way to measure the curvature of a circle and a siclicle shape? )
06:14:51 <int-e> siclicle <-- you may want to check the spelling of that.
06:15:06 <oerjan> no, that's obviously a very sharp icicle
06:15:44 <int-e> oerjan: "i also don't see how" <-- that's your problem right there ;-)
06:17:46 <oerjan> shachaf: i think we shall be happy they don't usually have icicles in sicily or we would all be dead
06:18:08 <shachaf> oerjan: not to mention siclicles
06:18:37 <Dulnes> I spelt a word wrong whatever
06:18:53 <oerjan> Dulnes: are you using a compass and ruler
06:19:30 <oerjan> you need to find the center of the circle, the curvature is the inverse of the radius iirc
06:19:59 <int-e> also there are mathworld and wikipedia articles on curvature
06:20:21 <int-e> including formulas in terms of derivatives, ready to plug stuff in
06:20:26 <Dulnes> like the exact x y z cordinates of a curvature
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06:20:50 <oerjan> ...a curvature is a number, not a point
06:20:57 <Dulnes> wiki is awful mathworld is bleh ill just whatever ive got dis
06:21:32 <shachaf> oerjan: are you sure it's not secretly a linear map hth
06:21:51 <oerjan> shachaf: well there's probably _some_ way to make it that. there always is.
06:27:55 <int-e> oerjan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curvature_vector#Normal_or_curvature_vector hth
06:30:36 <Dulnes> welp nvm that was helpful int-e
06:31:10 <Bike> curvature's only a number in 2d, aka worst-d
06:31:31 <shachaf> Bike: p. sure 3d is worst-d
06:31:39 <Bike> 2d doesn't even have chaos
06:31:41 <Bike> imo? fuck that
06:32:14 <shachaf> 3d is full of all sorts of scow
06:32:31 <Dulnes> bike go turn a sphere inside out
06:32:38 <Bike> i used to be a boy scout, you know
06:32:54 <shachaf> Look, Dulnes, what are you doing here?
06:33:00 <shachaf> I really don't understand.
06:33:23 <Dulnes> And? im only asking i do code stuff during the day
06:33:51 <vanila> Have you tried Windows 93
06:34:07 <Bike> anyway, curvature is bilinear in three dee.
06:34:15 <Bike> i hear physicists care about this for some reason.
06:34:15 <vanila> Bike, Do you kno anything about 3d knots?
06:34:54 <oerjan> Bike is a bike, so he has no use for shoelaces
06:35:15 <shachaf> oerjan: in my experience bikes like to eat shoelaces
06:35:39 <Bike> i guess curvature is a tensor (field) in 2d too, but nobody cares since it's pretty boring tensorwise.
06:35:58 <Bike> and i guess saying "bilinear in three dee" is wrong too, in a way.
06:36:03 <Bike> no wonder nobody likes math.
06:36:16 <int-e> Bike: don't jump to conclusions like that
06:36:32 <int-e> Bike: but I'm curious what the variables are when you say that curvature is bilinear.
06:36:51 <Bike> int-e: directional vectors on the 2-manifold
06:36:51 <int-e> "nobody likes math" is definitely untrue.
06:37:00 <Bike> the... 2d manifold? words are also bad
06:37:25 <Bike> int-e: i mean, you know. if you have a sphere and a saddle point, they might have the same curvature in one direction along the manifold but not another.
06:38:38 <Bike> wow i just confused levi-civita symbols with levi-civita connections. again, no wonder nobody likes math
06:39:03 <Bike> wikipedia even says "not to be confused with". but what did I do? i confused with. i'm terrible. no wonder nobody likes Bike.
06:39:11 <Dulnes> vanila 93 isnt existent unless you think of the multiverse theory where there is a universe that has it
06:39:26 <vanila> Dulnes, yes its real I run it web browser http://www.windows93.net/
06:40:04 <Dulnes> i thought you meant something that was sold
06:40:35 <Dulnes> Its your childhood OS on acid
06:41:39 <Dulnes> Ok you hooligans get back to your compression stuff
06:41:52 <Dulnes> Didnt mean to interupt
06:44:21 <oerjan> int-e: THX TDH HTH HAND
06:44:40 <int-e> oerjan: did or didn't?
06:45:00 <oerjan> i don't use D to mean didn't, i think
06:45:32 <int-e> oerjan: glad to help (GTH ... ah, better not abbreviate it like that.)
06:46:46 <oerjan> now if uncurry were shorter, divMod _might_ help
06:49:07 <oerjan> we can only assume that poor cojna has forgot to remove two spaces.
06:49:27 <int-e> shachaf: A very useful trick in golfing is to exploit the special syntax that Haskell offers for two-argument functions.
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06:54:54 <shachaf> int-e: Yes, I've done that plenty of times.
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08:57:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41101&oldid=41012 * 134.169.181.220 * (+42) /* Normal implementations */
09:05:32 <mroman> @tell oerjan You can remove me from the dontaskdonttelllist
09:05:54 <mroman> or someone in here who knows sed well enough can do it
09:07:33 <int-e> `` sed -i 5d bin/dontaskdonttelllist
09:09:39 <int-e> sed -i /mroman/d bin/dontaskdonttelllist would've been clearer, I guess.
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09:18:04 <shachaf> int-e: I spent so much time earlier trying to figure out how to get rid of the parentheses in (x`div`2)#(x`mod`2)
09:18:22 <shachaf> Now I came back to the computer and saw it right away, of course.
09:18:55 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: quintopia coppro myname
09:19:00 <int-e> shachaf: but that's normal, missing the blatantly obvious because one is preoccupied with looking for clever tricks.
09:19:22 <shachaf> I was trying things out with an operator earlier but I couldn't get the precedence working.
09:19:55 <shachaf> I assume your solution is alpha-equivalent to mine now.
09:20:11 <int-e> why is everybody using # out of the four possibilities (#, %, !, ?)?
09:20:44 <shachaf> But I got odd errors and I thought maybe Data.Ratio was imported by default (it wasn't).
09:20:46 <int-e> shachaf: I have two solutions, one based on your earlier code, one quite a bit different (but also using an infix operator for profit).
09:21:40 <shachaf> ! is taken for BangPatterns. ? is taken for ImplicitParams.
09:21:51 <shachaf> % is taken for Data.Ratio. # is taken for MagicHash.
09:22:26 <shachaf> Not to mention all sorts of Unicode symbols.
09:22:35 <shachaf> I guess length is measured in bytes, though.
09:22:43 <int-e> which don't help in anagol, because ... exactly.
09:24:56 <shachaf> By the way, turns out PatternGuards are in Haskell 2010.
09:25:10 <int-e> yes, they're useful
09:25:14 <int-e> less useful is FFI.
09:25:18 <shachaf> It can be a compact substitute for let if in some cases, if nothing else.
09:25:30 <shachaf> It was pretty useful for that thing that imported C rand.
09:25:47 <int-e> exactly. and that has been the only case so far.
09:26:39 <shachaf> Golfed programs tend to be hard to read, so I keep having this urge to make my programs hard to read so they'll be shorter.
09:27:17 <shachaf> As long as it manifests itself as not writing spaces, it kind of works...
09:27:27 <shachaf> But I need a better heuristic.
09:32:41 <mroman> int-e: by convention you use #
09:35:42 <int-e> no, I use ? by convention ;)
09:36:58 <mroman> That's not how conventions work.
09:40:08 <int-e> I disagree. It is a convention, because I'm consistent about this. Maybe there's another, more generally accepted convention, but that's besides the point.
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11:22:13 <mroman> I bet you use camelCase when programming in LISP!
11:31:09 <int-e> unlikely; that would make the code look inconsistent if I use any standard functions
11:34:22 <int-e> but for ? vs. # I see no reason whatsoever to prefer # over ?.
11:35:19 <int-e> (as a rule I'm not using implicit parameters; I'm more likely to use MagicHash)
11:35:33 <mroman> because notogawa prefers # over ?
11:35:39 <mroman> and he's like the god of haskell golfing
11:36:09 <int-e> I didn't know notogawa when I made the choice to prefer ?.
11:37:09 <fizzie> I always worry I use the wrong variable/function/whatnot names when doing something involving names.
11:37:12 <int-e> right now I'm wondering about leapfrogging. 121 is nice, but still one character behind henkma.
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11:49:59 <shachaf> oerjan: whoa, i just found out that Roald Dahl is norwegian??
11:50:09 <shachaf> oerjan: perhaps some jokes have gone over my head here
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12:34:02 <fizzie> You sure leapfrogged the competition. (Groan.)
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12:59:04 <scoofy> does brainfuck traditionally signed or unsigned char?
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12:59:58 <b_jonas> scoofy: either unsigned, or unsigned with overflow and underflow forbidden
13:00:32 <scoofy> either with, or without overflow?
13:00:53 <int-e> of course unsigned is indistinguishable from signed with wrap-around on overflow and underflow.
13:01:06 <b_jonas> range 0..255 is always allowed, if you overflow it depends on the implementation: some implementations have larger ranges, some just wrap around modulo 256
13:01:09 <scoofy> well, question is about interpretation.
13:01:17 <FireFly> int-e: except for I/O I guess
13:01:20 <int-e> 0..255 is the usual interpretation.
13:01:40 <int-e> FireFly: even there, what difference does it make?
13:01:57 <FireFly> I guess it's just a matter of convention even for byte values
13:02:10 <b_jonas> int-e: sure, it's just definitely not signed char, because it's safe to go over 127
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13:20:30 <fizzie> The conventional bfjoust conceptual interpretation is [-127, 128]. :)
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13:21:07 <fizzie> (Sure, it's a whole different language.)
13:21:16 <b_jonas> fizzie: what? don't you mean [-128..127]?
13:24:52 <fizzie> b_jonas: No, the halfway point is generally considered to be 128, not -128.
13:25:05 <b_jonas> fizzie: is that just to be different? ok
13:25:21 <b_jonas> it doesn't affect semantics anyway
13:26:06 <b_jonas> I guess that's just a shiboleth: if someone gives dumps containing -128, you recognize them as an unexperienced newbie bfjouster.
13:27:53 <fizzie> I was going to say that that's how it's shown by tools like EgoJSout, but that's slightly arguable -- the tape dumps show a hex number. But the graphical tape plotter shows hex values 01..80 as "positive" (above the zero axis) and 81..FF as "negative" (below).
13:28:26 <fizzie> (And that's the way it's described on the wiki.)
13:29:35 <b_jonas> right, so you that tool isn't written by a bfjoust newbie
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13:47:08 <lambdabot> EFHK 211320Z 04009KT 1400 R04R/P1500D R15/P1500N R22L/P1500N R04L/P1500N SN VV005 M02/M03 Q1027 NOSIG
13:47:34 <lambdabot> ESSA 211320Z 01002KT 8000 -DZ BR BKN005 BKN013 02/02 Q1027 R88/29//95 BECMG SCT006 BKN015
13:48:39 <fizzie> There's it's just negative Drizzt.
14:32:17 <elliott> fizzie: speaking of drizzles, when are you moving?
14:36:34 <mroman> !blsq "+++++++++."".""X"r~"-""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!-.256.%{vvvv}c!sa\/"r~"+""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!+.256.%{vvvv}c!sa\/"r~"[""{"r~"]""}{\/^^{vvvv}c!!!}w!"r~">""+."r~"<""-."r~"X""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!L[+]\/+]\/+]^^3\/.+1RAp^\/+]\/[-1RA^^-]\/[-\/"r~"\'\'1 128r@{vv0}m[0"\/.+pse!vvvv<-sh
14:37:10 -!- blsqbot has joined.
14:37:16 <mroman> !blsq "+++++++++."".""X"r~"-""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!-.256.%{vvvv}c!sa\/"r~"+""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!+.256.%{vvvv}c!sa\/"r~"[""{"r~"]""}{\/^^{vvvv}c!!!}w!"r~">""+."r~"<""-."r~"X""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!L[+]\/+]\/+]^^3\/.+1RAp^\/+]\/[-1RA^^-]\/[-\/"r~"\'\'1 128r@{vv0}m[0"\/.+pse!vvvv<-sh
14:38:08 <mroman> !blsq "-[+>+<[+<]>]>+."".""X"r~"-""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!-.256.%{vvvv}c!sa\/"r~"+""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!+.256.%{vvvv}c!sa\/"r~"[""{"r~"]""}{\/^^{vvvv}c!!!}w!"r~">""+."r~"<""-."r~"X""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!L[+]\/+]\/+]^^3\/.+1RAp^\/+]\/[-1RA^^-]\/[-\/"r~"\'\'1 128r@{vv0}m[0"\/.+pse!vvvv<-sh
14:38:08 <blsqbot> | Ain't nobody got time fo' dat!
14:38:32 <mroman> !blsq "++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+."".""X"r~"-""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!-.256.%{vvvv}c!sa\/"r~"+""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!+.256.%{vvvv}c!sa\/"r~"[""{"r~"]""}{\/^^{vvvv}c!!!}w!"r~">""+."r~"<""-."r~"X""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!L[+]\/+]\/+]^^3\/.+1RAp^\/+]\/[-1RA^^-]\/[-\/"r~"\'\'1 128r@{vv0}m[0"\/.+pse!vvvv<-sh
14:41:40 <fizzie> elliott: Or, depending on definition, somewhen in February, which is hopefully when we'll be moving to some more permanent place and shipping stuff from Finland.
14:42:12 <elliott> in the meantime you will take up residency in a Small, yet Comfortable Hole, in the ground
14:45:11 <fizzie> Actually, I just got booking confirmations from the temporary place.
14:46:10 <fizzie> (Although it was relatively light on the details.)
14:48:24 <fizzie> It's that place with the the £250/week Internet if you use more than 1 gigabyte in a day, except it's relatively possible that's actually not part of the terms for this particular place.
14:49:29 <fizzie> Yes, it was entirely ridiculous.
14:49:35 <fizzie> (The first gigabyte's free.)
14:50:32 <fizzie> "As a guide additional charges include, but is not limited to the following: -- Broadband charges including data download exceeding 1GB (1024MB) per day - £250 per week or part of week."
14:50:43 <elliott> fizzie: that's pretty good internet for a hole
14:51:03 <elliott> fizzie: incidentally I'm pretty sure the 3G dongles you can get at $any_mobile_shop are cheaper than that.
14:52:29 <fizzie> I'm having a slight culture shock what with your "just about everything has a data cap" thing.
14:52:41 <fizzie> They used to be almost unheard-of here, although Finland's been catching up lately.
14:52:52 <mroman> 250 Pounds A WEEK is like uhm
14:53:01 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Unknown command: (/4)!
14:53:01 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Unknown command: (*4)!
14:53:11 <mroman> that many times too much
14:55:08 <fizzie> We're currently paying something (it's negotiated for the whole building and part of the upkeep costs, so this is an estimate) like 5€/month for 10M/10M unlimited broadband, and I used to pay another 5€/month for no-data-cap-but-real-slow-bandwidth-cap (512Kbps, I think) 3G mobile thing.
14:57:48 <fizzie> (Before switching to a prepaid data thing that costs 20€/(10 GB valid for 6 months) aka 3.34€/month, since I use it for about 100MB/month. So I do have *something* with a data cap, now. It's just something I don't use.)
15:00:05 <mroman> instead of fixing javascript
15:00:14 <mroman> you just bork around it
15:01:29 <FireFly> £35/month seems like it should get you 100/100 without caps, at least
15:01:51 <fizzie> Yes, but £35/day even more so.
15:01:57 <FireFly> so £35/*day* seems quite unreasonable :P
15:03:10 <FireFly> mroman: those parens are redundant hth
15:03:13 <fizzie> Take that £250/week figure with a grain of salt -- I mean, it's listed on the website of the company as an example, but when I asked about Internet and any limits regarding our booking, they just said it's included and it's approximately 10-16M/1M, and didn't mention any traffic caps.
15:03:30 <mroman> FireFly: It doesn't help
15:03:57 <FireFly> also return~-x is even shorter
15:03:58 <mroman> I'd rather write func add1(x : int) : int { return x+1; }
15:03:59 <fizzie> Maybe you can push all your JavaScript through the C preprocessor and #define INTIFY 0| return INTIFY x+1;
15:04:09 <FireFly> mroman: you can write return Math.floor(x + 1)
15:04:14 <FireFly> Which is less golfed and easier to read
15:04:15 <mroman> func add1(x) { x=x|0; return (x+1)|0; }
15:04:49 <FireFly> If someone actually uses tricks like |0 in meant-to-be-readable code I want to hit them
15:05:01 <FireFly> Well, not actually hit them, but mentally
15:05:10 <mroman> it's used as type annotations
15:05:14 <mroman> for static checkers and what not
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15:13:05 <elliott> FireFly: that's "idiomatic JS"
15:20:45 <FireFly> elliott: I think asm.js is meant to be a compiler target
15:21:10 <elliott> I don't think Math.floor works, doesn't | also clamp to 32 bits?
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15:28:24 <mroman> !blsq 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999fp
15:28:25 <blsqbot> | -10000000000000000000000000000000000000000
15:28:39 <mroman> !blsq 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999fp
15:28:39 <blsqbot> | -1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
15:28:57 <mroman> !blsq 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999fpb2
15:28:58 <blsqbot> | That line gave me an error
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15:56:17 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Unknown command: (+1)!
15:56:18 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Unknown command: (--)!
15:56:18 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Unknown command: (--)!
15:57:00 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 6):
15:58:05 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 1):
15:58:05 <blsqbot> | expecting "\"", "-", digit, "'" or "["
15:58:15 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 2):
15:58:15 <blsqbot> | expecting "\"", "-", digit, "'" or "["
15:58:49 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 4):
15:58:54 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 3):
15:59:06 <mroman> fun fact "ra" expects characters to be 'a' rather than 'a
16:00:50 <mroman> !blsq "['a','b']"ps2sH
16:00:54 <mroman> !blsq "['a','b']"ps0sH
16:00:57 <mroman> !blsq "['a','b']"ps1sH
16:01:02 <mroman> !blsq "['a','b']"ps3sH
16:01:44 <mroman> !blsq "1,2,3,4"ps(,);;
16:01:45 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Burlesque: (;;) Invalid arguments!
16:01:50 <mroman> !blsq "1,2,3,4"ps(,)j;;
16:01:50 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Burlesque: (;;) Invalid arguments!
16:02:05 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Burlesque: (;;) Invalid arguments!
16:03:41 <mroman> !blsq "1,2,3,4"pssg~]\[
16:04:31 <fizzie> elliott: By the way, if I understood correctly, the hole will be somewhere between the 9th and 13th floor, which is also quite high up for a hole. (I suppose it's possible the numbers mean below-the-ground floors, though.)
16:05:14 <elliott> fizzie: that's just how bad the hole is (9th and 13th flaw), and also how floored by how bad it is you'll be
16:06:26 -!- adu has joined.
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16:11:35 <mroman> fizzie: psShra is a nice trick btw
16:11:56 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Burlesque: (ri) Invalid arguments!
16:11:56 <blsqbot> | ERROR: Burlesque: (;;) Invalid arguments!
16:12:08 <mroman> mainly because ;; wants a string
16:12:16 <mroman> (which is fixed in 1.7.4 though)
16:12:42 <mroman> although ri won't work with heterogenous lists of course
16:12:46 <mroman> !blsq "1,2,3,4"",";;ri
16:12:50 <mroman> !blsq "1,2,3.0,4"",";;ri
16:12:51 <blsqbot> | That line gave me an error
16:12:55 <mroman> !blsq "1,2,3.0,4"",";;rd
16:13:01 <mroman> !blsq "1,2,3.0,4"psShra
16:13:23 <mroman> !blsq "1,2,3.0,4,'a'"psShra
16:13:24 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 2):
16:13:24 <blsqbot> | expecting "\"", "-", digit, "'" or "["
16:13:32 <mroman> !blsq "1,2,3.0,4,'a"psShra
16:13:33 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 28):
16:13:33 <blsqbot> | expecting "\"", "-", digit, "'", "[" or "]"
16:13:39 <mroman> !blsq "1,2,3.0,4,a"psShra
16:13:40 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 2):
16:13:40 <blsqbot> | expecting "\"", "-", digit, "'" or "["
16:24:23 -!- adu has joined.
16:33:14 <blsqbot> | ERROR: (line 1, column 1):
16:33:14 <blsqbot> | expecting "\"", "-", digit, "'" or "["
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17:26:18 <J_Arcane> https://github.com/nomic-io/nomic
17:28:48 <S1> kind of evolution
17:32:38 <S1> Code that randomly changes the @nomic-io Github password, so no human has access to the account
17:32:47 <S1> fascinating
17:35:58 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
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17:50:56 <idris-bot> Can't resolve type class Num (Integer -> Integer)
17:51:12 <Dulnes> get out of there astris
17:51:37 <idris-bot> flip (\{meth0} => \{meth1} => prim__sdivBigInt meth meth) 73866 : Integer -> Integer
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18:25:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Light Pattern]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41102&oldid=40968 * BCompton * (+24) /* Original Hello, World */
18:50:38 <Gregor> J_Arcane: The "ASL" at the bottom is clearly the work of twits.
18:59:07 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
19:09:38 <elliott> Gregor: 12 hours/code/github, u?
19:10:40 <fizzie> Oh, I used up my conversation allowance demoing it to colleagues.
19:13:12 <fungot> FireFly: is ur paper, there are 3 words... ' today its me... because i m quite free these days la
19:13:33 <FireFly> yes, it does indeed stand for three words
19:13:52 <fizzie> fungot: Have you been thinking about trying out internet dating?
19:13:53 <fungot> fizzie: no one might wish us n bring us presents again, but we know that we miss you guys.
19:14:38 <shachaf> fungot: how do you do american sign language over irc
19:14:38 <fungot> shachaf: send to someone else have already liked her sis one last amendmentto make. so i wait for u.:)
19:19:55 <Gregor> I didn't realize that fungot had an "annoying twelve year old" mode.
19:19:55 <fungot> Gregor: thank u. please tell lucy i forgot to tell me what u thinking just now leh. at ard decimal tmr at the coffeeshop near their office
19:20:06 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms* speeches ss wp youtube
19:20:19 <fungot> Selected style: oots (Order Of The Stick)
19:20:25 <shachaf> fungot: whoa, since when do you have that
19:20:25 <fungot> shachaf: my master and answer the charges that rely on the more traditional torture methods. which is to say, " i", thus ruining the spell " haste" if the good. or any room with my prisoners, and i would not be so dismissive of.
19:20:47 <shachaf> fizzie: where are the transcriptions from?
19:22:27 <fizzie> shachaf: http://wing.comp.nus.edu.sg/SMSCorpus/
19:22:37 <fizzie> Oh, I thought it was still in SMS style.
19:23:24 <fizzie> I think I scraped http://oots.wikia.com/ or something.
19:23:40 <fizzie> Yes, this looks familiar. I think that's it.
19:26:16 <fizzie> I tested 4 comments (since that's the limit) of the SMS style when showing off, and managed to get something that pretty well reproduces the tone of short SMS message system messages: http://sprunge.us/NJHQ
19:26:28 <fizzie> Except for the "sword alone can't stop" scenario in the last.
19:27:59 <shachaf> i thought S stood for Simple
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19:44:02 <olsner> "short SMS message system" is a very redundant acronym redundancy
19:44:30 <olsner> (but it seems to be 'service', not system)
19:44:33 <shachaf> i think that's the idea, olsner
19:44:57 <shachaf> perhaps fizzie types "SMS messages" but then thought that the pedants would swoop in and cry redundancy
19:45:06 <olsner> I thought it was accidental
19:45:29 <shachaf> so he added "short SMS message system messages" so it would be completely obvious that he's being redundant on purpose and people wouldn't be like that
19:45:36 <shachaf> but apparently that's not good enough
19:45:44 <olsner> nope, not nearly enough
19:47:21 <fizzie> shachaf: You will be burned as a witch for such accurate clairvoyance.
19:48:58 <fizzie> (The "system"/"service" part was inexcusable, however. Mea culpa.)
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20:56:54 <scoofy> did anyone ever do 16 bit arithmetic in 8 bit brainfuck?
20:59:50 -!- Patashu has joined.
21:02:34 <fizzie> To quote the awib design report: "For instance, 8-bit centric developers often implement 16-bit airthmetic by relying on 255 incremented becoming 0, which will fail miserably in any other cell size." Sadly, it doesn't cite examples.
21:03:02 <fizzie> I can only think of some programs with arbitrary-precision stuff implemented with 8-bit cells, not specifically 16-bit arithmetic.
21:03:46 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
21:05:43 <Gregor> fizzie: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_bitwidth_conversions <-- examples
21:06:48 <fizzie> Fancy. And I was right at [[Brainfuck algorithms]] and even looked at "See also", don't know why I missed it.
21:07:19 <Gregor> I should hope I'd remember that page since I wrote it.
21:07:28 <olsner> is it possible to do it cell size agnostically?
21:08:00 <Gregor> olsner: You can CHECK for cell size and then have code specialized to many different cell sizes.
21:37:42 -!- zzo38 has joined.
21:39:12 <elliott> olsner: you can just pretend it's boolfuck
21:43:47 <elliott> is the subset of BF complete given by +<>[] and you can only write to a cell once TC
21:44:35 <zzo38> If arbitrary jumps are allowed then it is TC but other than that I don't know
21:45:49 -!- FreeFull has joined.
21:46:09 <Gregor> I doubt that it's possible to simulate a rewritable tape using a write-once tape.
21:46:21 <vanila> hi zzo38 I enjoyed your gopher:// site
21:46:47 <elliott> Gregor: it feels sort of like reversible computing to me
21:47:01 <elliott> in that maybe you can do it just by accumulating lots and lots of garbage
21:48:13 <zzo38> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_B-machine
21:49:17 <vanila> the cool thing about Janus (reversible language) is that it acn simulate itself withour generating lots of garbage
21:56:35 -!- S1 has joined.
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22:11:08 <vanila> brainfuck gets a lot of popularity
22:11:18 <vanila> shouldn't we program in subleq more
22:11:23 -!- adu has joined.
22:13:28 <S1> I didn't see brainfuck being mentioned here in about.... a looong time :|
22:14:12 <S1> it's just not esoteric enough it seems
22:15:17 <vanila> S1, I think subleq is hard to program in though
22:15:26 <vanila> like you can program BF by yourself, but not subleq
22:15:32 <vanila> so one would require a compiler
22:16:05 <S1> Didn't read the article, sry
22:16:12 <S1> quite busy atm
22:16:15 -!- adu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
22:16:36 <vanila> its an assembly instruction set
22:16:48 <S1> yea I did read the first few sentences though
22:16:58 <FireFly> "subtract and branch if less than or equal to"
22:17:18 -!- adu has joined.
22:17:26 <FireFly> The instruction name quite accurately summarizes the whole instruction set
22:18:28 <S1> is it turing complete?
22:19:43 -!- tlewkow_ has joined.
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22:20:06 <zzo38> What is it called if you are using base two numbers but the possible digits are 1 and 2 instead of 0 and 1?
22:20:31 <S1> still binary
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22:21:23 <zzo38> No this is a different kind
22:21:29 <fizzie> zzo38: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bijective_numeration
22:21:42 <fizzie> (That's the general concept for base k with digits 1..k.)
22:22:04 <zzo38> Yes this is what it is
22:22:15 <zzo38> It is what I meant
22:22:19 -!- adu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
22:24:04 <zzo38> I have made up a kind of run length coding using bijective binary numbers; 1 and 2 is represented by bit 0 and 1 and then the next bit tell you if there is more bits or not.
22:32:08 <zzo38> I made up a new kind of sokoban compression which I used to compress the original 50 sokoban levels from the original DOS version into less than one eighth of their original size.
22:32:55 <zzo38> First is stored 18-bits to tell the player's starting position and the board size. Next the walls are RLE'd in a horizontal boustrophedon starting at the top-left, skipping the player's starting position.
22:33:35 <zzo38> After that the targets are encoded in a similar way, but vertically and the walls are skipped but the player isn't. Finally the position of boxes is coded.
22:34:28 <zzo38> (It assumes there is the same number of boxes as targets, boxes that do not start on targets are more likely than ones that do start on targets, and that there isn't any box that isn't initially on a target in a position where it is impossible to be moved from.)
22:38:52 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
22:39:03 <zzo38> Are there better ways which aren't too much more complicated?
22:40:48 <S1> I don't know what this actually is, what you're encoding but 1/8 sounds good ^-^
22:41:34 <vanila> I ha vlooked for other gopher:// sites but there aren't many [which aren't very old and bad]d
22:41:55 <vanila> interesting to use boustrophedon
22:44:01 <zzo38> Yes there aren't a lot, although there are some
22:44:38 <zzo38> I used boustrophedon dince it ends up working much better with this kind of encoding numbers for RLE
22:47:45 -!- nooga has joined.
22:47:58 <nooga> this place is full
22:50:12 <quintopia> zzo38: does boustrophedon work better than spiral for grouping walls?
22:50:30 -!- boily has joined.
22:51:26 <zzo38> I didn't try spiral so I don't know
22:55:31 <quintopia> anyway, maybe boustrophedon is best
22:56:48 <nooga> indeed, hi elliott
22:57:42 <nooga> wow, I'm mentioned in the wisdom file
22:59:46 <shachaf> you're either wisdom or you're againsdom
23:00:04 <nooga> I'm sure it's the latter
23:07:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[REBEL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41103&oldid=40976 * BCompton * (+12) /* External resources */
23:08:51 -!- tlewkow has joined.
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23:16:27 <boily> quintopia: quinthellopia!
23:16:37 <boily> what does the elliott say?
23:17:00 <boily> speaking of wisdom, I haven't updated it in a looong time...
23:20:45 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1).
23:22:02 <nooga> I recently stumbled upon K and Arthur Whitney's stuff
23:22:18 <nooga> seems pretty eso, are you guys familiar with that?
23:23:28 <nooga> http://nsl.com/papers/origins.htm now this is pretty indie
23:24:20 <Taneb> J and K are based on APL right?
23:24:25 <lambdabot> CYUL 212300Z 27011G20KT 15SM SKC M06/M15 A3033 RMK SLP274
23:24:29 <Taneb> I've been playing with APL recently
23:25:57 <Sgeo> http://www.fark.com/comments/8499094/Fark-Two-computer-scientists-respond-to-a-predatory-journal-with-7-words-complete-with-charts-graphs-Total-WTF-The-journal-prints-it-Not-safe-for-work-Language
23:26:34 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:26:59 <oerjan> int-e: wat you're soundly beating henkma on leapfrogging
23:28:11 <nooga> Sgeo: I remember reading about guys who were invited to speak on a conference after submiting papers generated using markov chains
23:28:32 <lambdabot> mroman said 14h 22m 58s ago: You can remove me from the dontaskdonttelllist
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23:33:43 <oerjan> <int-e> shachaf: but that's normal, missing the blatantly obvious because one is preoccupied with looking for clever tricks. <-- i have to keep wondering what blatantly obvious thing i'm missing on the A[057]* one
23:34:07 -!- zlsa has joined.
23:34:43 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !
23:34:47 <boily> zlsa: please yourself!
23:35:05 <oerjan> some of those aren't around these days
23:35:15 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
23:35:31 <zlsa> ^python print("hello world")
23:35:49 <zlsa> oh that's right, this is #esoteric
23:35:49 <oerjan> boily seems to have dropped joining metasepia after int-e stole metar
23:36:08 <shachaf> ^bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
23:36:08 <oerjan> zlsa: bf = brainfuck, ul=underload, those are your options
23:36:41 <zlsa> brb, learning brainfuck
23:36:44 <oerjan> HackEgo and EgoBot have several languages, though
23:37:00 <boily> oerjan: yes. I'm still jealous about that :P
23:37:16 <boily> (meanwhile, I'm learning rust, and probably will make a new IRC bot.)
23:37:47 <oerjan> (HackEgo includes most of EgoBot's ones in the ! subcommand.)
23:37:54 <int-e> oerjan: It was strange. I did a lot of hard work on leapfrogging and then I found something simple that saved 7 characters.
23:38:40 <oerjan> and iirc i still haven't managed to beat my initial one
23:38:43 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
23:38:53 <zlsa> it is running in a sandbox, right?...
23:38:55 <oerjan> although i've not tried that much with it
23:39:02 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing.
23:39:32 <fungot> shachaf: if the power, as duly noted. i've been up on the mountain, with two gates lost, we know that we're going.
23:39:52 <oerjan> zlsa: although i'm less sure about it's unhackability than i used to be. there have been some disturbing bugs showing up lately.
23:40:14 <oerjan> (and of course, a _real_ expert could probably break it, anyway.)
23:40:19 <zlsa> `run echo "foobar"
23:40:29 <HackEgo> bash: emacs: command not found
23:40:37 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux
23:40:50 <HackEgo> 23:40:15 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 \ USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT
23:41:07 <HackEgo> bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ findmnt \ fuser \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ kmod \ less \
23:41:24 <fizzie> oerjan: Is there a way to get the usual EgoBot language listing from HackEgo?
23:41:24 <HackEgo> alternatives \ java-6-openjdk
23:41:43 <HackEgo> agpgart \ audio \ audio1 \ audio2 \ audio3 \ audioctl \ console \ core \ dsp \ dsp1 \ dsp2 \ dsp3 \ fd \ full \ kmem \ loop0 \ loop1 \ loop2 \ loop3 \ loop4 \ loop5 \ loop6 \ loop7 \ mem \ midi0 \ midi00 \ midi01 \ midi02 \ midi03 \ midi1 \ midi2 \ midi3 \ mixer \ mixer1 \ mixer2 \ mixer3 \ mpu401data \ mpu401stat \ null \ port \ ptmx \ pts \ ram \
23:41:58 <oerjan> also, it doesn't have the userinterp part
23:42:16 <fizzie> oerjan: That's kind of crude, compared to the version that has the split to eso- and non-teric parts.
23:42:18 <oerjan> it could be reimplemented in HackEgo of course.
23:42:34 <HackEgo> whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000
23:42:38 <oerjan> fizzie: i haven't seen that in HackEgo, but i may not have looked carefully.
23:42:50 <HackEgo> whoami: invalid option -- 'n' \ Try `whoami --help' for more information.
23:42:55 <zlsa> `run ls /dev/s*
23:42:57 <HackEgo> /dev/sequencer \ /dev/shm \ /dev/smpte0 \ /dev/smpte1 \ /dev/smpte2 \ /dev/smpte3 \ /dev/sndstat \ /dev/stderr \ /dev/stdin \ /dev/stdout
23:43:03 <shachaf> int-e: what are you expecting exactly
23:43:30 <HackEgo> zlsa: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
23:43:37 <int-e> shachaf: numerical output, but it was the wrong command.
23:43:46 <shachaf> int-e: but `whoami gave numerical output
23:44:06 <shachaf> That advice is said to be outdated, by the way.
23:44:13 <nooga> maybe try dd-ing one device to another
23:44:23 <shachaf> oerjan: Did you logread today?
23:44:43 <shachaf> Er, no, #esoteric on irc.dal.net is gone.
23:44:46 <int-e> shachaf: maybe esoterically minded persons can still find a way to contact it
23:44:56 <fizzie> nooga: There aren't any very interesting devices to dd from/to.
23:46:10 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm in the process
23:46:11 <zlsa> i've discovered more languages in the last ten minutes than I have in the last year
23:46:38 <zemhill> zlsa: I do !bfjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
23:46:38 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
23:46:43 <EgoBot> EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ . Cheers and patches (preferably hg bundles) can be sent to Richards@codu.org , PayPal donations can be sent to AKAQuinn@hotmail.com , complaints can be sent to /dev/null
23:46:51 <zlsa> !help languages
23:46:51 <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
23:46:59 <nooga> I'm fed up with languages lately
23:47:00 <Taneb> `quote Northumberland
23:47:02 <HackEgo> 622) <oerjan> shachaf: wait, _you_ are in northumberland? <shachaf> No. <oerjan> whew <oerjan> we don't have room for more esolangers there. <shachaf> oerjan: Wait, *you* are in Northumberland? <oerjan> no <shachaf> Whew. <shachaf> We don't have room for more esolangers there.
23:47:22 <Taneb> To my knowledge, we are at a record shortage of Northumbrian esolangers
23:47:52 <zlsa> somebody wrote a brainfuck interpreter in haskell
23:47:58 <zlsa> ... talk about the pot calling the kettle black
23:48:10 <fizzie> Several somebodies, I'm sure.
23:48:12 <ion> A Haskell interpreter in brainfuck would be cooler.
23:48:22 <shachaf> Taneb: whoa, newcastle isn't in northumberland?
23:48:51 <shachaf> but #trains was talking about newcastle the other day
23:48:52 <Taneb> Newcastle is in Tyne and Wear
23:48:56 <nooga> I just seen brainfuck implemented using Rust macros
23:49:27 <nooga> it's not even fun anymore
23:49:28 <int-e> . o O ( echo nobody:x:500:515161:Odysseus:/bin/bash >> /etc/passwd )
23:50:57 <int-e> I recall times when 500 was the first assigned user id for normal users.
23:51:19 <shachaf> but there are no more normal users
23:51:36 <fizzie> I have the vaguest feeling Slackware had some smallish (less than 1000) number.
23:52:19 <oerjan> zlsa: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fueue#Brainfuck_interpreter hth
23:52:45 <oerjan> that's like the pot and the kettle having a mud wrestling match
23:54:04 <zzo38> How do you mean, there are no more normal users?
23:54:54 <oerjan> it would be so fitting if zzo38 was the only one left
23:55:44 <zzo38> What exactly is a "normal user" anyways?
23:56:00 <oerjan> yes, shachaf, exactly what is a normal user
23:56:00 <int-e> I meant a non-system user
23:56:08 <int-e> I'm not sure what shachaf meant.
23:57:33 <fizzie> oerjan: I think it has something to do with an uniform distribution of body parts no matter how you disassemble one.
23:58:02 <oerjan> fizzie: that sounds more like a zombie user to me hth
23:58:27 <int-e> `cat /proc/288/cmdline
23:58:29 <HackEgo> sh.-c.'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' 'cat' '/proc/288/cmdline' | cat.