00:02:38 -!- tlewkow_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:08:33 -!- jix has joined. 00:12:41 -!- tlewkow has joined. 00:12:52 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:13:04 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:13:07 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:16:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:30:54 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:32:56 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:33:36 -!- tlewkow has joined. 00:40:58 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:45:18 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:47:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:56:51 Dulnes: cute 01:01:22 -!- adu has joined. 01:02:58 -!- jix has joined. 01:13:27 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 01:13:42 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:13:49 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 01:28:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:28:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:36:00 you know your code is robust when your test passes even if you have misspelled mod as div 01:37:14 yes, let's go with that 01:37:15 oerjan: is that like https://github.com/mame/radiation-hardened-quine 01:37:54 POSSIBLY 01:37:54 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 01:39:07 (more seriously, having div caused a subtest to always pass, but it was redundant for the test case) 01:43:40 * oerjan tries submitting without the subtest too 01:44:24 case 1 and 3 still succeed then, but 2 actually needs it 01:45:25 (btw the test is for whether i'm at the end of a line, so that a domino cannot go on rightward) 01:46:52 another way of removing it failed all 3 01:52:03 Hehhehehhe >_> 01:52:16 Dulnes: hm? 01:52:54 [wiki] [[DNA-Sharp]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41130&oldid=41047 * 79.204.240.23 * (+80) Undo revision 41047 by [[Special:Contributions/149.69.108.53|149.69.108.53]] ([[User talk:149.69.108.53|talk]]) - Editor reuploaded, sorry for that. 01:54:15 * oerjan must stop this habit of absentmindedly editing his submitted entries without copying them first 01:54:44 [wiki] [[DNA-Sharp]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41131&oldid=41130 * 79.204.240.23 * (-80) Undo revision 41130 by [[Special:Contributions/79.204.240.23|79.204.240.23]] ([[User talk:79.204.240.23|talk]]) - There seems to be some problem, I will have to fix that in the near future. Link will be removed until then. 02:02:44 -!- adu has joined. 02:17:36 -!- GeekDude has joined. 02:17:38 shoot 02:17:45 I just realized I set my client to auto-join #estoeric 02:17:59 I miss your BF jousts 02:18:29 well it's a bit confusing right now 02:18:49 fizzie didn't get around to fix the bug in zemhill, then EgoBot came _back_ 02:19:30 so now we have two bots responding to the !bfjoust command, with different hills. and while zemhill _should_ be an improvement, it's currently buggy. 02:19:36 hmm 02:19:40 I'm, no good at BF 02:19:46 I just enjoyed the mass spam 02:19:50 heh 02:20:03 well there's quite a bit of burlesque spam :) 02:20:14 I'm still trying to figure out a good way to spam piet over IRC 02:20:24 OKAY 02:20:34 there aren't enough color codes 02:20:46 actually, there might be 02:20:50 they just aren't the right colors 02:25:12 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:25:21 -!- jix has joined. 02:28:24 * oerjan shaves off 5 bytes 02:30:55 ooh an idea 02:31:03 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:32:30 ooh this allows me to tie fizzie's burlesque with haskell :P 02:33:03 perhaps beat, if i can improve the formula 02:33:51 wait where did that bug come from :( 02:34:13 oh darn 02:34:45 the formula needs integers, not chars 02:38:08 oerjan: unfortunately it's not the bot, it's the server. (I still haven't implemented the regular flushing of state though, that's my fault. 02:39:00 I C 02:39:15 oerjan: "[host] has experiened a kernel panic. We have rebooted the node into the latest stable OpenVZ kernel. Your VPSs should be back up shortly." 02:40:18 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 02:41:27 at least my init script that restarts the bot's screen session is now well-tested. 02:42:54 ooh an even better idea, if this works 02:50:11 -!- bb010g has joined. 02:54:36 God i hate burlesque 02:54:41 No offense 02:54:52 To you ppls who use it 02:55:05 o_O 02:55:39 * oerjan doesn't actually use it, but are you on the right channel? 02:55:39 èoé 02:55:54 Its not like i hate hate it 02:56:15 I just dislike it when i have to use it to complete something 02:56:15 It is annoying when my scrollback is filled with Burlesque 02:56:29 But I can tolerate it 02:56:36 i cannot 02:56:39 It's not like I understand half the things in this channel in any case 02:57:13 I will flip shit if someone comes in here spouting malbolge 02:57:54 "when i have to use it" ... I don't follow. 02:57:58 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 02:58:33 There are so many esoteric languages, you can pick one that you actually like. 02:58:34 Idk like if i wanna do something with a friend 02:58:52 But they use burlesque 02:59:01 Dulnes: has this ever happened to you yet 02:59:08 Yes 02:59:11 once 02:59:20 It was awful 03:08:46 -!- vanila has joined. 03:12:21 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:12:48 -!- tlewkow has joined. 03:17:18 -!- tlewkow has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:19:46 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:38:54 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:43:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 03:44:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:45:41 -!- tlewkow has joined. 03:46:32 is there a simple algorithm to perform the optimal self modifying regex compression? 03:48:19 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:52:44 vanila: what do you mean by "compression"? 03:53:00 like, turning /foo|bar|baz/ into /foo|ba[rz]/? 03:53:59 vanila's been talking about it for a while. i think they mean shorter regex strings 03:54:16 _='h~world}me}you}all~ello } h~';for(i in g='}~')with(_.split(g[i]))_=join(pop());eval(_) 03:54:19 this one 03:54:25 which seems like it might be harder since it's more all over the place than some DFA shrinkage 03:54:40 vanila: did you take a look at regpack source code? 03:54:44 ah 03:54:47 yeah but I didn't understand it 03:54:52 the "optimal" one? I'm not sure about that though. 03:54:54 and I don't know if it uses the best algorithm 03:55:03 like a heuristic 03:55:10 im curious about how to do it at all though 03:55:20 just as most compressors use a (well-working) heuristic 03:56:26 vanila: it is essentially a crude version of LZ77 and it is hard to find the "optimal" compression 03:57:06 14 more bytes shaved off 03:57:12 im checking out lz77 03:59:34 oerjan: 15 more until you break even with my cheating solution 04:00:12 ooh 04:00:19 i think that might be hard 04:03:40 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 04:06:48 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:09:44 oerjan: sigh. I don't know how to do this properly without refactoring tons of code: https://github.com/int-e/lambdabot/commit/4d112c371e306e79983b262fd758693742d79430 04:10:25 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 04:10:30 it'll just have to do for now 04:10:54 int-e: you could use a lock hth 04:12:38 I guess what the code should be doing is use the create-new-temporary-file-and-rename idiom. 04:13:38 I dont think LZ77 is similar to the self modifying regex stuff 04:14:18 it is similar in that you encode repeated substrings. and I guess that's as far as the similarity goes. 04:14:40 -!- lambdabot has joined. 04:18:38 that module seems to only explicitly import things that everyone knows how to find, but not the lambdabot modules themselves :( 04:18:57 like, THAT'S THE OPPOSITE OF THE RIGHT PRIORITY 04:19:11 lambdabot code is horrible 04:19:35 i was like wondering where flushModuleState is defined 04:26:52 apparently "Sorry, forked repositories are not currently searchable." and int-e/lambdabot is a forked repository. 04:27:00 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:29:04 I wonder how to find a good and the best compression algorithm 04:29:08 for one thing 04:29:13 I can think, it's easy to find repeated substrings 04:29:28 but then which set should you replace with a substitution? 04:29:40 in which order to perform them 04:30:09 vanila: see kolmogorov complexity, then weep hth 04:30:42 noidont want to weep 04:30:47 just compress ;D 04:30:52 "hth" 04:30:53 lol 04:30:58 NO COMPRESSION WITHOUT BITTER TEARS 04:31:08 also See; Halting Problem, HTH "Hope that halts" 04:31:37 in exchage for algorithm I offer you 1 (one) cup of tears 04:33:14 but reall y I think compression is interesting because you can come up against complexity without getting into undeciable problems 04:33:28 IC 04:33:52 of course you have to prove your decompression language is not turing 04:39:42 oerjan: ok, this should help things: https://github.com/int-e/lambdabot/commit/de814c2bce21c588dd1d0dc82ba2c0e1b7e4df21 04:39:55 Hhhh i just found my Atari 04:40:01 ugly. sigh. 04:40:29 oerjan: just compress your tears 04:40:46 good, good 04:40:48 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 04:41:11 Dulnes: water is mostly incompressible hth 04:42:08 And yes, the whole lambdabot code is a bit messy. Some old cruft, some overengineering, a number of ugly hacks (like this flushing one) that have survived the tides of time... it all adds up. It's remarkable that it holds together overall. 04:45:02 -!- lambdabot has joined. 04:47:07 Pdp1 04:48:21 Also the only way i see lambda bot being held together would be large ammounts of virtual ductape 04:52:45 rewrite it in python or go 05:07:51 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:08:04 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 05:10:32 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:13:01 -!- tlewkow has joined. 05:16:23 -!- Deewiant has joined. 05:22:04 vanila: that will just result in a different, and likely bigger mess. 05:25:26 we 05:25:34 just compromise. write half of in haskell and half in python. 05:30:21 ... 05:30:30 Thanks, but I'll pass. 05:31:30 alternatively write it in C for speed 05:31:32 FTR, I actually like Python, but I don't think it'll mix well with Haskell. 05:31:56 why do you like python? 05:32:23 write it in double C for double speed 05:32:29 Double C??? 05:32:35 lol 05:32:36 twice as much C, so it's twice as fast 05:32:43 The usual, I guess. Easy going, quick to get started, and it has a pretty sane standard library. 05:32:47 it's closer to the metal 05:32:54 closerer 05:41:16 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:41:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 05:54:27 Bicyclidine: wth are you saying 05:54:34 Closerer 05:54:42 Double C 05:55:07 cc 05:56:22 Javascipt Thats actually C 05:56:38 Go home you're drunk 06:00:35 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:03:25 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:08:53 -!- tlewkow has joined. 06:19:44 `toroman 45 06:19:45 XLV 06:20:36 ( (flip div) 56843 06:20:36 flip (\{meth0} => \{meth1} => prim__sdivBigInt meth meth) 56843 : Integer -> Integer 06:22:42 Non 06:23:10 @ 0/0 06:23:20 Or what was it 06:34:12 oerjan: Shameful how much trouble I'm having getting Burlesque to beat Haskell there. (Just shaved it to be 1B better.) 06:34:22 ah 06:35:03 (dang) 06:37:34 Ooh, I think I see a 12B saving. 06:37:41 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 06:37:54 (Might not work out.) 06:38:58 Oh no, have to go to work first. 06:39:01 Well, we'll see later. 06:45:23 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 06:45:28 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:45:31 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Changing host). 06:45:31 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 06:45:35 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 07:03:55 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:21:25 Did I say 12B? I meant 14B. 07:25:47 so GNU C has __thread, but doesn't know what _Thread_local means. awesome. 07:28:16 Bicyclidine: ? 07:28:35 __thread is GCC's thread-local storage class keyword. 07:29:50 yes. _Thread_local is C11. 07:30:15 oh 07:30:28 I haven't looked at C11 very much I'm afraid 07:30:41 is there, like, a reason gcc doesn't just #define _Thread_local __thread somewhere 07:30:55 Bicyclidine: what if someone stringifies it? 07:31:01 or #ifdefs it? 07:31:05 god. fuck. god 07:31:15 GCC 4.9 supports _Thread_local 07:31:21 fizzie: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 07:31:30 oh, wonder what my version is 07:31:33 gonna be like 2.7 07:31:36 (you beat your own cheating bash version?) 07:31:46 oerjan: By 8B now, yes. 07:32:01 (I found another useless 7B in there. So sloppy.) 07:32:02 fizzie: You wrote a >100B Burlesque program? 07:32:05 u mad? 07:32:06 :) 07:32:35 mroman: what? what's wrong with that? 07:32:35 fizzie: O KAY 07:32:41 b_jonas: nothing. 07:32:49 @esolang Burlesque 07:32:49 Unknown command, try @list 07:32:50 mroman: it could be just a double-quoted string 07:32:54 Well, I mean, I wouldn't have, if I could just make it shorter. 07:33:04 There are no double-quoted strings in the program, FWIW. 07:33:14 but long Burlesque programs is usually an indicator that you have to manage state 07:33:27 and managing state is pure pain in the ass in Burlesque I'm afraid 07:33:56 4.8.2. not bad i guess. 07:34:30 fizzie: What would help to make it shorter? 07:34:40 ^wiki Burlesque 07:34:40 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Burlesque 07:34:41 (other than "add a builtin that exactly solves this problem". I won't do that) 07:35:15 I'm more looking for patterns that can be implemented to be useful for many other problems as well 07:35:18 like the Continuations 07:35:21 stuff like that. 07:36:04 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:36:30 mroman: I'm still saying, a builtin that pops a natural number, then picks the value from the stack that is that far from the top and pushes that to the stack, would help, because that takes five characters now 07:37:19 That would let you use the stack as the frame for local variables. 07:37:43 b_jonas: there's MV which pops a natural number and moves that element from the stack to the top 07:37:55 but there's no "copy" as of now 07:37:59 but it's on the todo list. 07:38:19 b_jonas: also 1.7.4 has variables 07:38:21 mroman: oh a rotator instruction. sounds nice. still, I'd like copy 07:38:34 mroman: global variables are nice, but this would be for when you need local variables 07:38:40 !blsq 9s010ro{g0?+}m[ 07:38:41 | {10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19} 07:38:49 mroman: and those mutable dictionary instructions you've added certainly help 07:38:59 ^- s0 set's the global variable "0" and g0 reads the global variable "0" 07:39:06 because you can use them to have sorta-efficient arrays, and mutable state 07:39:24 b_jonas: but you have to keep the dictionary around of course 07:39:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:39:36 mroman: oh! I thought the variables had fancy punctuation names, something with a percent sign or something 07:39:44 b_jonas: they do. 07:39:53 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:39:54 !blsq 9s0 %0? 07:39:55 | 9 07:40:05 but g0 is shorter than %0? 07:40:34 Anyway, I'm saying this pick instruction because it's already implementible (it's three blsq instructions), so it's easy to add. 07:40:35 (but it's they same. g0 is just a shortcut for %0?) 07:40:45 I see 07:40:45 s/they/the 07:41:12 !blsq {^^.*}s0 9%0! 07:41:12 | 81 07:42:16 hm. let me update blsqbot 07:42:41 hm can't right now. 07:43:13 b_jonas: other things I've added are builtins like 07:43:43 IfMap, SelectIf 07:44:16 {1 2 3 4 5}{0 1 1 0 1} returns {2 3 5} 07:44:55 {1 2 3 4 5}{2.%}{2.*} returns {1 4 3 8 5} 07:45:06 (i.e. it only applies the function if a condition matches) 07:45:21 (2dv actually instead of 2.%) 07:47:43 b_jonas: also maps allow you for "easy" multi-dimensional array I hope 07:47:57 I.e. you can use {0 1 2} as a key for 3d arrays 07:48:07 and you can specify a default value for lookups 07:48:24 (i.e. when no value is bound to a key the default value is returned) 07:49:37 mroman: Do you happen to have a stock way (less than 11B) of going from {{1 2} {3 4} {5 6} ...} to a prettified "1,2 3,4 5,6 ..."? I'm not terribly good at formatting things. 07:50:50 (Less than 10B, I mean. Can't ocunt, either.) 07:50:56 (Or apparently type.) 07:51:05 i tried using init(tail$show(x,y)) but it ends up longer than just writing it out :( 07:52:04 (wait did i just give fizzie a possibly translateable idea) 07:53:35 why $ 07:54:00 Actually, it's not quite as simple as all that. It has to go from {{a b} {c d} ...} to a prettified "i,j k,l ..." where there's a 8-character mapping from a -> i, b -> j etc. 07:54:00 init(tail show(x,y)) same ength, more readable, less confusing operators 07:54:05 vanila: it's a haskell shortcut operator for avoiding parentheses 07:54:12 oh imwrong 07:54:15 vanila: um that is not well typed 07:54:20 yeah 07:54:40 "1,2 3,4" or "1,2\n3,4"? 07:54:47 space 07:54:49 The first. 07:55:00 Currently I'm using {{...}]m',IC}m[wD where ... is the mapping I need for the numbers. 07:58:28 {1SH~-}m[wd but that's 11B 08:00:27 Since I can get my numbers to strings for "free" (I need to do a m[ anyway, and that can be ]m when it helps), I guess ',IC is better than 1SH~-. 08:01:20 I forget C wizardry. Is there some value I can set a jmp_buf to to mark it as invalid? 08:01:29 It's like... an array type... I don't know if I can null that. 08:01:45 -!- dts|airhocky has changed nick to dts. 08:01:51 oh, i suppose i can just set my own flag 08:02:21 f~ is too long anyway 08:02:27 !blsq "~,~"{1 2}f~ 08:02:27 | "1,2" 08:02:55 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:02:55 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:03:00 !blsq "~,"{1 2}f~ 08:03:00 | "1,2" 08:03:15 (you can always drop the last ~ btw ;) ) 08:04:36 fwiw MapUnlines and MapWords are on the todo list ;) 08:04:59 and FilterWords 08:05:04 (FilterUnlines already exists) 08:05:38 fiendish 08:05:50 FilterWords exists but it's not just f[wd 08:06:15 it would only save you one byte anyway 08:06:21 since you need Q 08:06:28 because m[wd doesn't pretty 08:06:57 !blsq "abc dac efg feg"qsow[ 08:06:57 | "abc efg" 08:07:09 ^- filter words 08:07:11 can i use a function call as an lvalue? Something like "*foo() = ...", where foo returns a double indirect. 08:09:00 you can use *p where p is a pointer (even an rvalue) as an lvalue, sure 08:09:13 shouldn't need to be double indirect 08:09:39 cool 08:09:42 is this regular C or Double C? 08:09:51 ok yeah it doesn't need to be double indirect, right 08:09:58 vanila: i'm using setjmp so it's probably, like, triple c 08:10:02 in that it requires triple sec 08:10:04 fizzie: other than 1.7.4 saves you one byte since {}m[ can now be written as m{} 08:10:28 do you really want to use setjmp :p 08:10:30 mroman: do you have a built-in that returns a list (block) of the values of a dictionary sorted by its keys? 08:10:44 mroman: That's not yet on anagol, right? 08:10:47 fizzie: nope 08:10:52 elliott: does anyone ever really want to use setjmp? 08:11:03 well... 08:11:09 i'm using it for delimited continuations. 08:11:11 anagol is 1.7.3 08:11:12 imo excellent plan 08:11:14 mroman: I mean, that's not really essential, but could be convenient 08:11:57 I have keys, values, valuesSortedByKey and keysSortedByValue 08:12:17 and swapKeysWithValues 08:12:19 mroman: Speaking of which, is there a shorter )> there's no nub-sorted 08:13:06 and even if it had one it wouldn't do )<> 08:13:11 but rather NB>< or NB<> 08:13:23 (probably) 08:13:27 but no, it doesn't have that 08:14:11 How about a variant of 2CB that returns all unordered pairs instead of ordered? 08:14:32 !blsq {1 2 3 4 5}2CB 08:14:32 | {{1 1} {1 2} {1 3} {1 4} {1 5} {2 1} {2 2} {2 3} {2 4} {2 5} {3 1} {3 2} {3 3} {3 4} {3 5} {4 1} {4 2} {4 3} {4 4} {4 5} {5 1} {5 2} {5 3} {5 4} {5 5}} 08:14:45 !blsq {1 2 3 4 5}2CB)> | {{1 1} {1 2} {1 3} {1 4} {1 5} {2 2} {2 3} {2 4} {2 5} {3 3} {3 4} {3 5} {4 4} {4 5} {5 5}} 08:15:11 It's not too long like that, I was just wondering. 08:15:37 ah I see 08:15:40 {2 1} == {1 2}? 08:16:02 In this case, yes. 08:16:07 I guess that can go on the todo list, yes 08:16:50 !blsq {1 5 0}<> 08:16:50 | {5 1 0} 08:16:52 !blsq {1 5 0}>< 08:16:52 | {0 1 5} 08:19:16 I can easily define it as )> (I.e. add a builtin that does )>NB) 08:21:05 also I think I'm starting to panic again 08:21:05 Found an unrelated 2B I can save, but it changes the search order so that examples 1 and 2 time out on anagol. :( (Not by much, but clearly enough; 1.5 seconds for both.) 08:21:39 yeah 08:21:46 shinh really oughta compile Burlesque with -O3 turned on 08:21:55 It makes a huge difference 08:23:45 And if I do one other +- 0 change that affects the search order (but keep that -2 change), it passes examples 1 and 2 but times out on 3. 08:24:15 hm 08:24:22 How efficient is Data.Map actually? 08:24:29 and how does it work? 08:25:06 looking up a Builtin in Burlesque is O(n) 08:25:53 just linear search? 08:25:59 @type lookup 08:26:00 Eq a => a -> [(a, b)] -> Maybe b 08:26:04 whatever lookup does 08:26:15 I assume it's probably O(n) 08:26:20 @source lookup 08:26:20 Unknown command, try @list 08:26:23 @src lookup 08:26:23 lookup _key [] = Nothing 08:26:23 lookup key ((x,y):xys) | key == x = Just y 08:26:23 | otherwise = lookup key xys 08:27:08 Oh, g_ does the analogous operation to blocks as l_. For some reason I thought it was only l_, even though that's just illogical. 08:27:35 Data.Map.Lazy has lookup as O(log n). 08:27:42 which makes sense since the key has to be Ord instead of just Eq 08:28:44 you should use Data.Map.Strict 08:29:00 (you should use Data.HashMap.Strict) 08:29:17 Firefox can't find the server at data.hashmap.strict. 08:29:17 fizzie: yep @g_ and l_ 08:29:41 WIll I still should use Data.HashMap.Strict in, like, a year say 08:30:14 why is strctness even important actually i'm kind of genuinely curious instead of just a sarcastic dickhead like usual 08:30:38 (That saved me three bytes.) 08:31:26 HashMap has been around for years 08:31:54 actually maybe Data.Map.Lazy is okay 08:32:02 some of the lazy structures are really ridiculous though, like State 08:32:08 i feel lied to 08:36:08 laziness is relative, most .Strict structures actually use plenty of laziness 08:36:38 look i'm just curious why you'd want a .strict thing over a .lazy thing or whatever you said 08:39:20 it's half past eight, I'm too tired to explain :( 08:39:23 [wiki] [[Talk:TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41132&oldid=41113 * Oerjan * (+172) Not quite 08:39:38 that's cool i'm tired and loaded up on triple sec longjmp 08:39:43 also i'll never use it anyway 08:39:51 so explaining it to me would be a waste of your time 08:40:52 I used setjmp once! 08:40:59 to survive sigsegv 08:41:04 :D 08:41:15 you can register the signal and jump out of the signal handler 08:41:26 and do stuff 08:41:54 the OS will kill the process hard though if another sigsegv occurs 08:43:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: sigzzzzz). 08:45:37 well now the stuff i'm doing seems completely reasonable. thank.s 08:45:39 Are you sure that's not just the signal handler resetting? There should be nothing illegal about recovering from sigsegv. (I did it in an early jitfunge version to make a hardware-assisted "pop 0 if empty" stack, though with setcontext to actually continue. 08:46:26 I'm not sure if the OS signals SIGKILL 08:46:27 Was more trouble than it was worth, because the handler haf to inspect the failing opcode to see where the 0 was expected.) 08:46:53 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Perl 08:47:43 lol C has signals in it, huh, i thought it was just posix 08:47:53 do not use this ever 08:48:10 Bicyclidine: I have a raise(SIGSEGV) as a "this should never happen" in memory allocation code :-) 08:48:32 admittedly, it's in a program that has a POSIX level of system specificity 08:48:39 (i.e. it has POSIX and Windows codepaths) 08:49:05 oh and SIGSEGV is standard C as of C11, it's implementation-defined whether it can ever happen except via raise() though 08:51:32 Hahaha 08:51:39 "System V also provides these semantics for signal(). This was bad because [bla bla bla] The [linux] kernel's signal() system call provides System V semantics." fucking incredible 08:51:42 this perl page 08:52:44 "By default, in glibc2 and later, the signal() wrapper function does not invoke the kernel system call [and uses BSD semantics instead]" seriously what the fuck, amazing 08:53:37 \o/ 08:57:53 im laughing at the esolang wiki 08:57:57 looking at random languages 08:57:58 You bastard! 08:58:03 X:D 08:58:09 This ain't no stinking laughing matter. 08:59:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:00:12 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:01:25 -!- Patashu has quit (Client Quit). 09:03:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:05:44 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Timeline_of_esoteric_programming_languages 09:10:33 -!- nooga has joined. 09:11:27 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:19:06 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:24:32 -!- Dulnes has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:30:52 Bicyclidine: that's because with glibc, depending on the feature set macros, you can compile programs to be more sysv-like or more bsd-like, and so signal uses the semantics more approperiate for it. glibc has lots of compatibility stuff like that. 09:31:51 the signal stuff doesn't come up much in modern programs, these days we have the variant functions for 64 bit file offset and inode number instead from feature macros. 09:36:29 -!- scounder has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 09:43:49 Bicyclidine: where is that 'do not use this ever' from? It reminded me of the gets(3) manpage, but that's 'never use this function' apparently 09:48:06 -!- nooga has joined. 09:51:37 -!- shikhin has joined. 10:03:19 -!- scounder has joined. 10:04:32 -!- tlewkow has joined. 10:08:49 -!- tlewkow has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:13:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:28:57 -!- applybot has joined. 10:43:21 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cluid Zhasulelm * New user account 10:48:37 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:49:15 -!- TodPunk has joined. 11:00:12 -!- dts has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:04:31 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41133 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+347) Page creation 11:06:27 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 11:09:14 "In Qbasic you only need to define a function once. Why redefine it again? Just use a different Fn name for each definition." aaaaaaagh. 11:13:42 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41134&oldid=41133 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+417) Add instrution 11:16:08 (from a forum argument about implementing DEF FN in QB64) 11:16:32 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41135&oldid=41134 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+417) Add Immediate 11:20:18 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41136&oldid=41135 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+555) ANDIX 11:21:09 -!- boily has joined. 11:23:28 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41137&oldid=41136 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+501) And-Xor 11:27:37 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41138&oldid=41137 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+554) Branch On Equal to Zero 11:29:44 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41139&oldid=41138 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+516) Branch On Less Than Zero 11:32:09 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41140&oldid=41139 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+532) Exchange 11:34:39 mroman: Burlesque documentation note: tw and dw for strings are documented to be defined as **tw\[ and **dw\[, respectively, but I think both are actually XXtw\[ and XXdw\[ instead. 11:35:15 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41141&oldid=41140 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+553) Or Immediate-Xor 11:37:40 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41142&oldid=41141 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+495) Or Xor 11:40:59 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41143&oldid=41142 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+681) Reverse Direction, Branch On Equal to Zero 11:42:55 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41144&oldid=41143 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+643) Reverse Direction, Branch On Less Than Zero 11:43:12 fizzie: I'll look into that 11:43:44 fizzie: yep, it's XX 11:44:36 fixed. Thx. 11:45:48 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41145&oldid=41144 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+385) Rotate Left 11:47:09 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41146&oldid=41145 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+385) Rotate Right 11:50:05 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41147&oldid=41146 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+511) Shift Left Logical-Xor 11:51:50 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41148&oldid=41147 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+519) Shift Right Arithmetic-Xor 11:54:25 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41149&oldid=41148 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+430) Exclusive Or 11:56:45 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41150&oldid=41149 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+469) Xor Immediate 12:02:43 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:03:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:11:06 > map length ["last(f:[t|p])", "if p then t else f"] 12:11:07 [13,18] 12:15:44 :t (|) 12:15:45 parse error on input ‘|’ 12:15:48 ... 12:16:12 “|” is not an operator? 12:16:38 * boily facepalms. 12:16:47 /clear 12:16:50 /flush 12:16:52 /abort! 12:21:57 ah... 12:23:22 I should take some inspiration leapfrogging. 12:24:23 [wiki] [[Pendulum Instruction Set Architecture]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41151&oldid=41150 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+2229) Added Notes and Example Code 12:27:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CERULEAN CHICKEN). 12:28:31 bingo. 12:31:18 what's jq? 12:32:49 a command-line tool for "JSON selectors" 12:33:07 among other things, possibly? I dunno, it's the jq I know about at least 12:33:13 mroman: there's a "version info" page linked from the anagol frontpage, which generally answers these questions 12:33:23 this time it links to https://github.com/stedolan/jq 12:34:06 Wait, uh 12:34:11 Are people golfing in jq? 12:34:14 @tell oerjan today I learned that runhaskell is not good for testing haskell programs, because its buffering of stdout is wrong. 12:34:14 Consider it noted. 12:34:36 FireFly: it was just added to anagol a couple of days ago. 12:34:43 Aha 12:44:20 Does Burlesque support JSON? 12:44:34 | yes, 1.7.4 12:45:48 [wiki] [[Janus]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41152 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+826) page creation 12:59:54 [wiki] [[Janus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41153&oldid=41152 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+1083) Added example code 13:14:06 [wiki] [[User:Cluid Zhasulelm]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41154 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+192) page creation 13:14:58 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:15:06 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 13:27:52 o 13:30:28 Great. A PDF file that shows up (in Chrome's native PDF viewer) only as "Please wait... If this message is not eventually replaced by the proper contents of the document, your PDF viewer may not be able to display this type of document." 13:30:48 I know people make websites with no static content, and everything loaded dynamically over AJAX, but I didn't know this had spread to PDF files too. 13:36:59 hey 13:37:06 PDF is the best game container file format! 13:41:00 [wiki] [[User:Cluid Zhasulelm]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41155&oldid=41154 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+90) added more here 13:43:38 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:43:53 what do you mean by "game container" 13:43:54 ? 13:44:37 b_jonas: game ((container file) format) 13:45:00 or perhaps game (container (file format)) 13:45:57 Are there any decent non-Turing-complete document formats? 13:46:10 is odf turing-complete? 13:46:14 without macros? 13:46:17 plaintext 13:46:21 (which are a nonstandard extension) 13:46:22 markdown 13:46:27 markdown isn't decent 13:46:28 troff 13:46:36 and as #irp shows, plaintext may be turing-complete 13:46:50 ais523: yes, but what kind of game and contained how? you don't just print the pdf and wrap deer in it before freezing? 13:47:32 b_jonas: I assume "game" as in videogame, not as in game animal 13:47:33 If I were to print out a document, I'd rather not print it as plain monospaced markdown 13:47:52 I read "game" as synonymous to "toy" 13:48:04 That would make sense at least 13:50:57 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 13:53:09 -!- hjulle has joined. 13:57:14 -!- vanila has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:04:21 ais523: RTF, but it's kind of annoying 14:07:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:07:21 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 14:07:31 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 14:14:49 * int-e wonders whether oerjan is cheating on dominosa by allowing dominos to wrap around 14:15:21 because ... it works for the examples, so it's quite tempting 14:46:11 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:46:53 -!- tlewkow has joined. 14:50:51 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Quit). 14:58:39 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:02:38 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:29:00 @tell oerjan PS: by "today I learned" I meant that today was the first time that I profited from that fact rather than finding out that my oh-so-cleverly-optimized program didn't work on anagol. 15:29:00 Consider it noted. 15:31:15 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:41:13 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:44:07 -!- tlewkow has joined. 15:45:03 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:48:04 -!- S1 has joined. 15:51:25 -!- shikhout has joined. 15:54:42 -!- tlewkow has joined. 15:54:44 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:55:14 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:55:24 b_jonas: you can embed stuff into PDFs 15:55:26 -!- tlewkow has joined. 15:56:19 b_jonas: you can embed multimedia shit into PDFs 15:56:21 like Flash 15:59:33 mroman: yeah, and javascript too 16:04:08 that's when PDF went downhill 16:04:19 for sure. 16:04:49 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:20:33 -!- hjulle has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:24:18 FireFly: man 2 signal. what it actually says is "avoid its use" and "do not use it for this purpose". 16:24:40 Ah 16:29:46 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:30:02 -!- tlewkow has joined. 16:31:31 I spent all day learning the Y-combinator. 16:31:44 I suspect it is of limited utility, but it was fun. 16:37:55 fixed point combinators are useful; Y itself, not so much 16:38:19 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:50:59 elliott: It's a neat little thing, but doesn't seem very efficient performance wise. 16:51:12 hmm, what do you mean? 16:51:26 i've seen a paper on using y in efficient compiles 16:51:51 Well, at least on Racket it isn't any better than simple recursion for the stuff I tried. 16:52:35 But that could be an optimization thing with how it handles recursions vs. how it does Y. 16:52:44 -!- spiette has joined. 16:53:00 (admittedly this is a point where I'm a bit out of my depth) 16:53:14 it's not really a high priority to optimize i don't think 16:53:20 because i mean why would it be, only nerds use it 16:53:57 :D Yeah. Other than the very rare case you want to recur inside a lambda I don't see myself using it ever again in all likelihood. XD 17:01:04 J_Arcane: well, I mean, you use Y in languages without explicit recursion 17:01:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:01:38 if you want a fixed-point combinator in a language with recursion just do (define (fix f) (letrec ((g (f (lambda (x) (g x))))) g)) 17:02:11 elliott: Ahh, yeah. Makes sense. 17:03:59 In Scheme it's mostly novelty because tail-call optimizations are a part of the standard, but I can see where it could be useful elsewhere. 17:05:38 it doesn't have much to do with tail calls, though :) 17:05:51 Y does general recursion, not just tail calls, and will use just as much stack 17:05:55 *just as much stack to do it 17:05:58 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 17:06:20 Ahh. I suppose that makes sense too. 17:06:55 -!- GeekDude has joined. 17:06:56 That was something I noticed watching it expand in DrRacket: "holy hell, this generates an awful lot of code ..." 17:07:08 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:07:40 factorial 2, done with Y, took 25 steps to finish expanding, and it practically doubled each time from there ... 17:09:49 really you should look at Y in a lazy language 17:09:55 you cannot write the real Y in scheme 17:09:56 it diverges 17:10:14 (you can write a similar but not identical fixed-point combinator though, which is probably what you did) 17:10:28 permit not the false y to live 17:11:09 elliott: Yeah. That's true. I should try it in Lazy Racket. 17:11:38 I'd recommend a toy symbolic lambda calculus reducer if you have one lying around 17:11:38 -!- GeekDude has quit (Client Quit). 17:11:43 that way you get to implement arithmetic too :) 17:14:08 is arithmetic even real? think about it 17:15:15 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 17:15:20 elliott: Church numerals broke my brain. 17:15:50 it's representing n as \f x. f^n(x), if that helps any 17:16:44 Well, part is also that I wasn't really clear on what the . means in that notation. 17:16:56 it means the parameter list is over and you're onto the body. 17:17:00 But the idea of representing numerals even as functions. 17:17:11 \f x . f^n(x) = (lambda (f x) ((power f n) x)) 17:17:24 (bear in mind I washed out of the math track at trig proofs in pre-calculus) 17:17:35 well, except you have the implicit whatever, so it's (lambda (f) (lambda (x) ((power f n) x))) 17:17:55 Lambda Calculus is not very similar to trig 17:18:10 thankfully, lambda calculus is programming, not calculus 17:18:11 http://dkeenan.com/Lambda/ you might be interested in 17:18:24 Taneb: in american schools, at least, trig is when they introduce proofs. 17:18:29 Hmm. Racket's timing function doesn't really seem to behave with #lang lazy, but it does appear more efficient there. 17:18:41 J_Arcane: you'll want to change the combinator 17:18:53 since what you have does not diverge in call-by-value Racket, it cannot be Y 17:18:56 elliott: Yup. Back to the one-true form. :) 17:19:05 -!- spiette has joined. 17:19:21 I'm doing a half-hour talk on lambda calculus next week 17:19:46 (define Y (λ(f)((λ(x)(f (x x)))(λ(x)(f (x x)))))), instead of having to wrap it in an extra lambda. 17:20:45 you can read that mess but not (\f.(\x.f (x x))(\x. f (x x)))? :) 17:20:50 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:21:21 *\x.f 17:21:26 does (define (fix f) (letrec ((g (f g))) g)) work 17:21:33 :D Well, Lisp is kinda my thing. 17:21:38 Bicyclidine: maybe in a lazy language 17:21:45 it does in Haskell 17:21:50 fix f = g where g = f g 17:21:55 Bicyclidine: Dunno, let's find out. :D 17:21:56 it's not Y though of course 17:21:58 well, yes, i thought arcane was using lazy racket now. 17:22:22 you have letrec. shouldn't bother with that nested lambda garbage if you don't have to, mon. 17:22:42 j'arcane 17:22:57 Bicyclidine: well, yeah, you should, if your interest is Y (and not fixed-point combinators) 17:23:09 all that fix tells you is how to piggyback on the implementation's value recursion 17:23:30 but y is so uuuuugly 17:23:32 Y is the real magic, since it is a non-recursive definition of recursion 17:23:38 maybe in lisp :p 17:23:52 it's pretty gross in lambda calculus too. BLA 17:23:57 Y = \f. F F where F = \x. f (x x) is pretty nice! 17:24:08 use M for Y = \f. M (\x. f (x x)), clearly 17:25:06 (let ((f (lambda (x) (f (x x))))) (f f)) i guessk 17:25:21 no, that's wrong. in my defense i just woke up 17:25:38 Bicyclidine: Yes, (define (fix f) (letrec ((g (f g))) g)) works in Lazy, as does the purely anonymous Y. 17:26:40 "The Imitation Game is at its best when it focuses on the collision between cryptography and proto-programming. The film’s efforts to function as a character study, on the other hand, are decidedly clumsy, with Cumberbatch working a little too hard at making Turing a socially inept robot who learns how to pass as human." 17:27:06 lol they gave it a worse review than the penguin movie 17:27:39 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:28:30 elliott: It's the "non-recursive definition of recursion" part oddly, and seeing how it expanded, that sort of made sense of it for me. I've read several tutorials now, and they all tend to walk through the proof with intermediate incomplete definitions, which my brain somehow didn't follow so well until I saw it in action. 17:29:13 I think the best way to see it is to prove that the (x x) is = Y f 17:29:18 and then the whole definition is clear 17:29:32 easier said than done, though 17:31:01 Ahahaha: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Y_combinator#BlitzMax 17:31:33 uh, wow. 17:31:53 Bicyclidine: penguin movie? 17:32:03 is this based on blitz basic 17:32:22 Bicyclidine: Yes. 17:32:31 elliott: Penguins of Madagascar, it's an animated kids movie 17:32:40 they gave it a B, and cumberbund got a B- 17:32:42 BlitzMax is the 'game programming' version. 17:33:03 i thought that was blitzbasic. 17:33:09 sounds better than "cumberbatch as gay autistic: the inevitable trainwreck" 17:33:17 well, pretty much yeah. 17:33:23 i donated a book on game programming in blitz basic to my middle school!! 17:33:29 Bicyclidine: I did a monologue from Breaking the Code in college acting. 17:34:39 A combinator engine in TCL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/4833 17:38:59 "It’s a very trendy take on a legendary figure, likely to look far more dated in decades hence than Breaking The Code does now." 17:39:06 -!- nycs has joined. 17:41:34 Derek Jacobi *is* amazing. 17:41:52 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:51:52 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 17:57:47 -!- tlewkow has quit. 18:02:47 -!- tlewkow has joined. 18:04:51 -!- tlewkow_ has joined. 18:04:53 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 18:07:37 -!- tlewkow has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:20:38 -!- dts has joined. 18:21:34 -!- mihow has joined. 18:40:30 -!- GeekDude has joined. 18:40:31 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host). 18:40:31 -!- GeekDude has joined. 18:44:21 -!- tlewkow_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:44:56 -!- tlewkow has joined. 18:45:01 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:45:07 -!- tlewkow has joined. 18:47:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:48:53 -!- dts has changed nick to dTS. 19:20:55 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:22:36 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:25:52 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:28:42 -!- tlewkow_ has joined. 19:29:00 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:29:37 -!- tlewkow has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:38:47 -!- Dulnes has joined. 19:38:52 -!- tlewkow_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:39:10 -!- tlewkow has joined. 19:39:12 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:39:21 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:41:34 Wtf is this prediction of 2023 19:44:19 castrating squirrels will finally be recognized as the united states's national sport. 19:50:13 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:02:16 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:03:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:26:06 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:26:26 -!- tlewkow has joined. 20:28:37 -!- nanyyyyy has joined. 20:32:30 -!- nanyyyyy has left. 20:36:09 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:02:01 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 21:24:45 -!- GeekDude has joined. 21:45:39 [wiki] [[MNNBFSL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41156&oldid=40931 * AndoDaan * (+3802) Added BLSQ implementation for MNNBFSL 21:48:13 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 21:51:36 -!- shikhout has joined. 21:55:23 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:04:33 -!- Dulnes has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:04:37 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:08:25 -!- dTS has changed nick to dts. 22:12:57 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:14:01 -!- ^v has joined. 22:25:35 -!- tlewkow has joined. 22:28:46 -!- Dulnes has joined. 22:28:51 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Keerthanakumar * New user account 22:29:13 Bicyclidine: ... 22:30:05 [wiki] [[DNA-Sharp]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41157&oldid=41131 * Keerthanakumar * (+10) /* Hello World Program */ 22:32:32 who 22:34:02 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Blight * New user account 22:34:42 Also what? Squirrels 22:36:36 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:36:58 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:51:12 -!- bb010g has joined. 23:01:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:02:36 @messages- 23:02:36 int-e said 10h 28m 21s ago: today I learned that runhaskell is not good for testing haskell programs, because its buffering of stdout is wrong. 23:02:36 int-e said 7h 33m 35s ago: PS: by "today I learned" I meant that today was the first time that I profited from that fact rather than finding out that my oh-so-cleverly-optimized program didn't work on anagol. 23:04:00 @tell int-e i've also found that buffering can be difficult; in particular erroring out at the end doesn't work well with interact. 23:04:01 Consider it noted. 23:04:07 -!- HackEgo has joined. 23:05:13 @tell int-e because ... it works for the examples, so it's quite tempting <-- um no it doesn't? not with the wrapping that's easy for me at least, see the logs where i discussed how removing that check made test cases fail. 23:05:13 Consider it noted. 23:06:19 @tell int-e i don't think i'm presently cheating at all. 23:06:20 Consider it noted. 23:06:45 @tell int-e oh wait, except for added final space. 23:06:46 Consider it noted. 23:06:55 just in case: http://golf.shinh.org/checker.html can run any anagol language, and you can give your own input. 23:06:59 -!- S1 has joined. 23:07:31 AndoDaan: i know. i find it awkward that it doesn't accept the program as a form, though. 23:08:18 form? 23:08:20 also, when i _do_ try to submit a file that way, i find that the file is locked until i leave the result page... 23:08:45 AndoDaan: the usual submission form on problems allows you to paste code directly. 23:09:05 Ah, right. 23:09:39 I was annoyed by that today. Or yesterday. 23:10:08 since i keep all my golfing in one file it's rather awkward to submit as a file, although i suppose it's still useable for speed testing. 23:10:11 write a program that takes the input and saves it to a temp file. Since exec isn't denied you can then have your program run that temp cod. 23:10:13 write a program that takes the input and saves it to a temp file. Since exec isn't denied you can then have your program run that temp code. 23:10:27 I'm guessing. 23:11:00 AndoDaan: but that would ruin it for speed testing _too_ 23:11:12 bah. 23:11:17 since you then get additional compilation. 23:11:41 10sec run time instead of 3. 23:12:15 but idk, i never really consider how fast my code runs. 23:12:33 I vague remember it being a problem once. 23:12:56 I find it annoying when all the "clever" bits get obsoleted due to something that's both simpler and shorter. 23:13:18 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:13:20 AndoDaan: my main reason for doing it would be if i am _constructing_ a golf problem, in which case it would be rather important to check that it's actually possible to solve in the allotted time (my half-designed idea has trouble with this...) 23:14:08 ah, the power of a little randomness. 23:14:53 or bruteforce. I'm trying that with bitwise counting. 23:14:54 -!- vanila has joined. 23:15:07 (Also I seem to have gotten slightly stuck at the current length of this thing. I've got some minor variations, but they're all of identical length.) 23:16:44 the dominosa problem, fizzie? 23:16:49 Right. 23:16:57 fizzie: annoyed by which of those things? 23:17:06 How about deleting all brainfuck derivatives from the wiki 23:17:22 oerjan: The fact that the performance checker page lacks the form submission option. 23:17:38 mhm 23:17:55 bbiab. 23:18:15 I generally keep problems in separate files, but also tend to have lots of miscellaneous cruft and notes in the files. 23:18:21 vanila: i have vaguely had popped up in my mind an idea to move them into their own namespace >:) 23:18:25 Could there be a preference that hides them all 23:18:32 namespace would be good 23:18:46 -!- tlewkow has joined. 23:18:52 And Burlesque (as far as I know) doesn't even have comments. I've used "this is a comment"vv but it's visually slightly distracting. 23:18:58 however this would ruin our traditional wikigame 23:18:58 http://esolangs.org/wiki/MNNBFSL 23:19:02 http://esolangs.org/wiki/DNA-Sharp 23:19:15 i just swa recetn adds to the wiki 23:19:18 very lame 23:19:23 no ffense 23:20:44 MNNBFSL less so 23:21:24 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:TrivialBrainfuckSubstitution 23:21:29 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Brainfuck_equivalents 23:21:40 there are very few "braifuck equivalent" 23:22:05 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:22:56 Random page => probably a BF derivative 23:23:02 language list => hard to see past BF derivatives 23:23:25 -!- tlewkow has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:24:29 there's probably not a good solution 23:24:53 vanila: but that random page is what our wiki game depends on :P 23:25:24 hm what was the scoring mechanism again 23:25:37 i'm pretty sure it was -1 point per bf derivative 23:25:56 it was +1 point for non-BF derivative 23:26:00 ah. 23:26:00 you lose when you hit one 23:26:06 oh. 23:26:25 drinking game variant: drink as much as your points when you hit one 23:26:58 "join esolang, the wiki with the most lethal drinking game!" 23:27:11 -!- tlewkow has joined. 23:27:50 hi :) 23:27:55 well, we already have TURKEY BOMB 23:28:13 we need to play that at an #esoteric meetup 23:28:18 How do you count, eg, MIBBLLII? 23:28:30 we should make a monthly esoteric magazine 23:28:47 just collect up some unusal stuff from the wiki or something 23:28:56 which would not easily be found by random 23:29:19 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Brainfuck_derivatives 23:29:30 http://esolangs.org/wiki//%CB%88%C3%A6mbi%CB%90%C9%9Bf/ i like this one 23:29:37 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:29:50 also that brainfuck restricted to bits is equivalent to normal bf 23:30:32 vanila: um we are too lazy to make a monthly magazine. we cannot even manage a monthly featured article... 23:31:24 Featured language 23:31:24 One of the best-known esoteric programming languages, brainfuck 23:31:33 lol 23:31:55 hm maybe it's bad to have that as featured article too long. 23:32:10 it would seem likely to _encourage_ derivatives. 23:32:19 I changed my mind and now like BF derivatives 23:32:34 (derivatives were a problem long before the feature, though.) 23:32:39 vanila: do you like my BF derivative 23:32:44 yes, what is it? 23:32:48 wait I have two arguably, fuck 23:32:56 and brain? 23:33:19 fizzie did you break https or is my connection broken 23:33:31 suddenly esolang wiki is stopped working 23:33:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:33:46 i was going to ask the same, i was trying to check that i hadn't remembered wrong which language is featured 23:33:59 I guess too many connnections at once (3) 23:34:09 heh 23:34:11 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 23:34:28 vanila: considering it's on a "free" VPS... yeah. 23:34:37 oerjan: just automate the monthly magazine 23:34:57 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:35:04 Special:Random and some stitching-together 23:35:08 -!- HackEgo has joined. 23:35:25 the previous featured language was Deadfish, which was the april fools issue. except i think it was _last_ year's april. 23:35:35 Oh, I guess the point was precisely to not Special:Random.. oh well 23:35:36 -!- bronson has joined. 23:35:44 vanila: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck/w/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk:Brainfuck/index.php https://esolangs.org/wiki/Not_a_brainfuck_derivative 23:35:49 FireFly: well i guess we can automatically exclude bf derivatives, at least 23:36:09 Or at least delegate them to an appendix 23:36:10 Is there any more information about Not a brainfuck derivative?? 23:36:32 do you need any more 23:40:52 -!- bronson has left ("Leaving"). 23:44:57 [wiki] [[Janus]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41158&oldid=41153 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+478) more information 23:47:10 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:48:53 soon the mccarthy function problem will expire, i have no clue how the others got it so short :( 23:49:22 whydon't you put that ^ as the featured langauge? 23:49:28 if you want to get branfuck off the frontpage 23:50:08 there is a candidate list 23:50:22 where? 23:50:38 we should get rid of the process and go back to my original idea 23:50:43 which was that sysops would just put whatever they like there 23:51:00 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Featured_languages/Candidates 23:51:02 that wasn't ~~democratic~~ enough for some people who afaik never participated in the process though 23:51:07 lol 23:51:10 -!- tlewkow_ has joined. 23:51:44 yes sysops should do it imo 23:51:45 elliott: i'm pretty sure brainfuck was selected completely outside the "democratic" process 23:52:04 oerjan: no, it was on the list 23:52:09 ok 23:52:22 well some languages were, anyway 23:52:31 the age of those candidates should show how useful community input is on a wiki as tiny as this one 23:53:23 elliott: what is needed is for the proposers to do more of the actual work too >:) 23:53:41 oerjan: then we will have even fewer featured languages 23:53:48 OKAY 23:54:42 so we're all agreed 23:55:21 what do you say we do funciton next, it's pretty and pretty much the opposite of brainfuck in every way 23:55:59 imho eodermdrome 23:56:14 it's new rather than old, visual rather than textual, functional rather than imperative 23:56:41 [wiki] [[Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41159&oldid=37409 * AndoDaan * (+100) /* List of candidates */ 23:57:01 vanila: i didn't agree. 23:57:03 funciton is new? 23:57:08 so we're all agreed, hth 23:57:12 @google funciton esolang 23:57:13 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Funciton 23:57:13 Title: Funciton - Esolang 23:57:15 elliott: er, not terribly new 23:57:25 At least a couple of years old 23:57:29 elliott: relatively new, compared to brainfuck. 23:57:30 yes I was just wondering about oerjan's definition 23:57:32 -!- tlewkow_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:57:43 i'm thinking before/after i joined here split, sort of :P 23:59:11 % grep '' ????-??-??.txt | head -n 1 23:59:11 2006-06-13.txt:00:38:54: hi gregorR 23:59:19 ah yes, recent