00:04:23 -!- nys has joined. 00:06:38 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:11:04 -!- Oren has joined. 00:59:38 -!- Oren has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:02:30 -!- adu has joined. 01:02:40 http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2014/n4210.pdf -trigraphs 01:02:47 die die die 01:04:06 how rude 01:06:17 A major motivation at the time trigraphs were added was to support people with keyboards that lack 01:06:20 these characters and we believe this continues today. 01:06:25 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit). 01:08:40 2017, it's a standard named 2017 and they're concerned with keyboards lacking square brackets 01:08:45 don't they /make/ keyboards? 01:09:04 supportin the budget customers 01:09:42 ibm always stands up for the lil guy 01:10:08 hopefully C++ will add support for writing numbers like int x = ??twentythree; to accomodate users like me when my number keys broke 01:10:28 elliott: Why not simply use voice input? 01:10:33 #define MAX_SIZE ??sixtyfivethousandfivehundredandfiftysix 01:12:15 Pink XD quotes 23 semicolon 01:13:11 EBCDIC is still important? 01:14:11 C++ already supports user-defined literals 01:14:17 I thought “it would be hilarious if there’s a variant of UTF-8 based on EBCDIC” and googled. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-EBCDIC 01:14:24 "twentythree"_number 01:14:42 operator "" _number 01:15:20 ion: didn't you see "non-EBCDIC Unicode" in the pdf? 01:15:31 a terrifying phrase by what it implies the existence of 01:16:40 I think zzo38 or someone has discussed UTF-EBCDIC in here before. 01:16:55 Sounds on-topic at least 01:17:05 now i have to check for unicode encodings based on other obscure encodings of the 1890s 01:17:38 There is 9-bit and 18-bit Unicode variants too 01:17:55 gb18030 is an ascii superset. boooooriiiiiiing 01:18:03 Great Britain 18030 01:18:14 "There are real customers who use EBCDIC. " 01:18:38 UTF-9 is really VLQ but with 9-bits in one byte so 8 data bits and 1 continuation bit. 01:18:39 zzo38: those were Aprils' fools specs, though 01:18:40 oh, utf-ebcdic encodes c1 as single bytes 01:18:43 so useful 01:18:53 c1? 01:18:58 i suppose this implies someone's actually using c1 01:19:05 elliott: c1 control characters 01:19:14 UTF-1 is best UTF 01:19:26 single byte encodings that are like ESC FUCK or whatever in ascii 01:19:28 C0 control characters are more commonly used I think 01:19:40 ...where did the name UTF-1 come from? 01:19:57 “We’re number 1!” 01:20:01 when i was thinking about what a soviet ternary homecomputer might be like, i found myself designing a balanced ternary version of the soviet gost character set 01:20:41 viznut_: Do you have a posted of such a thing? 01:21:05 i didn't publish anything about that project 01:21:08 still disappointed i can't find a copy of that book on soviet space computers 01:21:41 I've heard of a channel on Freenode about ternary computers 01:21:44 Unicode is bad in general, although if you are using it then UTF-8 is best as it is compatible both with programs that use Unicode as well as programs that do not use Unicode and allows many things still working even in programs that do not use Unicode. 01:22:13 i wonder if i still have the book mark even 01:22:22 had an ISBN high code of like 13 or some shit 01:46:49 -!- adu has joined. 01:47:07 "never odd or even" spelled backwards is never.odd or even 01:47:25 it's clearly "neve ro ddo reven" 01:47:47 :/ you type fast 01:47:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:48:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:50:31 -!- Oren has joined. 01:58:36 language defined by reference interpreter or compiler. pro? con? 01:58:48 e.g. Perl 5 01:59:04 pro: turing complete parsing 01:59:07 con: turing complete parsing 01:59:40 fuk the chomskiarchy 01:59:49 smash the chomskiarchy 01:59:59 what is chomkiarchy 02:00:13 I'm not a politician 02:00:25 shrug 02:03:23 after googling, i guess it's a pun on 'patriarchy' and the chomsky hierarchy? 02:03:56 holy crap noam chomsky is still alive 02:04:07 how is he still alive? 02:05:16 he's only like 02:05:17 uh 02:05:18 Well, I suppose if he didn't get dead yet, then, he can still be alive. 02:05:20 @google noam chomsky age 02:05:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky 02:05:20 Title: Noam Chomsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 02:05:31 he's 86. not unreasonable 02:05:35 He is almost 86 years old from Wikipedia 02:05:35 85 02:05:45 same difference 02:06:04 wow. he's 17 years older than my grandpa 02:06:25 only my greatgranduncle is that old 02:06:45 maybe it's because i have centenarians in the family 02:07:00 he's like 1.6 obamas 02:07:12 that's less than 2 obamas 02:07:59 my family has people who died at 98 on one side, and 23 on the other 02:08:01 i don't... in terms of age? 02:08:08 in terms of obamas 02:08:15 but yes 02:08:16 thasnks obama 02:10:06 so i'm 0.4 obamas old? 02:11:38 -!- GeekDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:14:06 did you guys have a good knee-high socks day? 02:15:22 yes but I didn't wear any knee-high socks 02:17:50 was that today? mainly i just vomited, is that moe 02:19:26 according to some poeple in japan it is 02:19:50 moemoe stomach-acid 02:21:51 sno't worry i'm toning it down, I'm at school right now 02:22:13 don't worry, I love this channel's ever-advancing downward spiral 02:26:07 -!- tlewkow has joined. 02:30:01 -!- tlewkow_ has joined. 02:31:23 IPv6 yeah! 02:33:34 -!- tlewkow has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:35:17 aww ipv6 wnt away 02:50:23 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:53:54 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41233&oldid=41231 * SuperJedi224 * (+291) 02:57:50 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41234&oldid=41233 * SuperJedi224 * (+92) 02:59:59 -!- lollo64it has joined. 03:00:54 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:08:16 [wiki] [[Talk:GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41235&oldid=41207 * Orenwatson * (+158) 03:13:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:15:00 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41236&oldid=41234 * SuperJedi224 * (+909) 03:16:05 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41237&oldid=41236 * SuperJedi224 * (-30) 03:17:21 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41238&oldid=41237 * SuperJedi224 * (+195) /* Basic Program Format */ 03:21:33 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:41:30 most common labels in my C programs: heaven: and hell: 03:50:38 I don't use same label names so much all the time 03:54:34 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41239&oldid=41238 * SuperJedi224 * (+1249) 03:54:53 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41240&oldid=41239 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) /* SWITCH RANDOM|value|!value|=value|!=value */ 03:56:03 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41241&oldid=41240 * SuperJedi224 * (-10) /* Some Commands */ 03:59:26 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:04:39 -!- Dulnes has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:27:20 -!- GeekDude has joined. 04:33:56 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:52:44 -!- cluid has joined. 04:57:13 goto heaven; goto hell; goto valhalla; 04:58:08 :( I have had a really bad night's sleep 04:59:43 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 05:04:40 I think Return Oriented Programming is an esolang 05:05:00 it's been said 05:05:02 nah, too useful ;-) 05:05:58 What is return oriented programming? 05:06:28 a technique for exploiting buffer overflows on the stack that works with non-executable stacks 05:06:39 Taneb, basically you scrape together a programming language out of the suffixes of compiled function bodies 05:06:51 the idea is to put a sequence of return addresses on the stack, all poiting near the end of library functions 05:07:07 such that when those are executed, something useful (to the attacker) happens. 05:07:24 Hmm 05:10:09 the feeling is certainly similar to that of some esolangs. "Oh, here I can set register x to a value on the stack", up to "here I can write a byte in register foo to the address r+42 where r is another register"; usually the operations have side effects (like setting register y would read some memory and destroy register z) 05:10:31 (third hand experience, I've read a paper on ROP once or twice) 05:11:08 the reason ROP is effective is the same reaosn most turing tarpits are TC 05:11:46 I would like to add ROP to the wiki because it is a cool esolang but it also arose naturally unlike most constructed esolangs 05:12:10 is there such thing as a "natural programming language"? 05:12:13 yes 05:12:17 of course it's a whole class of programming languages. 05:12:23 e.g. forth 05:12:28 lambda calculus 05:12:37 how are they natural? 05:12:58 well Chuck Moore says forth was discovered, not invented 05:12:59 (Different programs, different library versions, different platforms, all lead to different flavours of ROP.) 05:13:05 and I feel that too 05:13:19 and Wadler said the the only thing we will definitely have in common with aliens is lambda calculus 05:13:27 Oren: they evolved rather than being conceived through intelligent (or less...) design. 05:14:02 oh I see, ROP is a natural language becuae the people who wrote the code that enables it did not intend to do so. 05:14:24 (Speaking of ROP. I don't agree that Forth falls inside that category.) 05:14:25 yeah it's like how bugs come live in dark spaces 05:14:32 the interpreter is not by design it is accidental 05:15:50 it's funny. by that definition, "natural languages" aren't. 05:16:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:16:22 Is "natural number" a natural language then? I don't quite know that either? 05:16:22 hi oerjan 05:16:54 well, no-one intended to screw up norman french and anglo-saxon to make english it just happened while they were getting on with their lieves 05:17:08 hi cluid 05:17:15 @messages- 05:17:15 mroman said 14h 47m 9s ago: It's not my website 05:17:31 wow mroman is actually offline 05:17:32 Does anyone know a nice implementation of ColorForth I can use? 05:18:36 @tell mroman i used the word in the en:you = de:man sense 05:18:36 Consider it noted. 05:20:19 so I think this could be nice but i gues its a bit subjective 05:20:47 Hmm I wonder whether fizzie and I use the same encoding for Dominosa ... 05:20:57 any comments 05:21:09 I guess it' boils down to "trits or bits?" 05:26:36 a bit trite question 05:27:04 -!- Dulnes has joined. 05:28:22 quite. 05:31:34 How do you... Make your own language And get people to use it > _ > 05:31:44 you cna't get people to use it 05:32:02 Also why are all my msgs faded 05:32:21 wipe your screen 05:32:33 with a cloth soaked in vodka 05:32:38 There 05:33:03 Oren what is knee high socks day¿ is that a joke 05:33:13 oerjan, I asked about ROP here a moment ago, do you have an comments 05:33:30 knee high socks day is november 28 05:33:41 on japanese twitter 05:33:54 cluid: no, since the logs for yesterday are long as sin 05:34:18 Verbose fuck is a very "extensive" alter for bf 05:34:27 11 = ii = good 28 = nihachi which sounds like knee high 05:34:31 I want to add it to the wiki 05:34:36 i dont know if it will be accepted 05:35:23 I am not sure about "the only thing we will definitely have in common with aliens is lambda calculus". Who is this Wadler anyways? 05:35:35 cluid: we don't precisely reject a lot 05:35:38 soo 11/28 = good knee highs day 05:35:44 zzo38, he researches in functional languages 05:35:55 oerjan, ok but is this good? 05:36:00 or should i not bother 05:36:13 to get people to use your language you need to make a cool thing where the interface is your langiuage 05:36:25 i don't know, i'm telling you the logs are long as sin which means you _might_ ask me again in five hours or so. 05:36:32 like C got popular becuase of Unix 05:36:40 i dont really understand that 05:36:59 would you liketo rad the previous conversation? it is 20 lines or so I can paste it somewhere 05:37:04 oerjan: don't worry, it's mostly me and fizzie trying to use speech recognition 05:37:19 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:38:09 I need ideas 05:38:12 elliott: ok 05:38:20 :( 05:38:34 Dulnes: Ideas of what? 05:38:51 A new language 05:39:17 also today 11:29 is meat day 05:39:22 zzo38: wadler is one of the main haskell designers, but i don't think he's been that active in the community for at least a decade. as an FP researcher he _would_ be biased on the universality of lambda calculus, i guess. 05:39:22 Don't you know esolang wiki includes a list of ideas? 05:39:25 11/29 i mean 05:39:30 Shh 05:39:59 zzo38: also, this gives me the idea of intelligent aliens without any concept of naming, which sounds scary somehow 05:40:11 if it is possible at all 05:40:18 -!- int-e has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:40:41 Meat day? 05:40:59 29 = ni kuu = niku = meat 05:41:01 zzo38: link? 05:41:09 so today is meat day 05:41:14 :/ 05:41:19 it's a pun 05:41:22 Why so many holidays 05:41:32 there are 365 days in the year Dulnes 05:41:32 because we like to partay 05:41:38 Very punny? 05:41:40 -!- int-e has joined. 05:41:42 i just want some advice on contributing to the wiki 05:41:51 be bold 05:41:53 Donate your soul 05:42:03 a rop article would be nice 05:42:05 eat a hamburger it's meat day 05:42:22 a rop article would be nice 05:42:31 Ye do that 05:42:59 are you repeating things I Say 05:43:02 *s 05:44:02 * is not recognized as an internal or external command 05:44:13 oerjan: Maybe it is possible I don't know, but I would think intelligent alien monsters must study some mathematics, although it might not resemble our own mathematics unless you look really closely (which may be difficult I don't know), and may be considered as a different order; concept of natural numbers would probably be had due to its usefulness in mathematics although maybe it wouldn't be called "natural". So, possibly the mathematics of lamb 05:44:33 It doesn't, however, mean it has exactly the same use of programmers you know! 05:45:51 you got cut off after "the mathematics of lamb" 05:45:54 therer are lots of different weird models of natural numbers 05:46:03 Make a bot in malbolge 05:46:12 -!- password2 has joined. 05:46:32 So, possibly the mathematics of lambda calculus may be studied too, by some degree. 05:46:57 perhaps the aliens naturally think in grothendieck-like levels of abstraction and have trouble getting to something as concrete as numbers 05:47:36 maybe they use computers for concretion instead of abstraction 05:47:44 loll 05:47:51 oerjan: I do suggest that is possible, but it doesn't mean numbers won't exist. 05:48:35 Dulnes: at least that might be _possible_. 05:48:39 They think with high number equations that humans will never use 05:48:47 well, they have to have invented spaceships. 05:49:10 It is unknown. 05:49:14 oerjan: there was a story vaguely like that 05:49:19 Mmmm i like malbolge its very [abstract] than others 05:49:40 Dulnes: i'm pretty sure abstract is _not_ the word you want 05:49:54 Yup 05:49:55 It that why it is in brackets? 05:49:56 (for malbolge) 05:49:59 oerjan: i think it was http://www.negrophonic.com/pdfs/ted_chiang_-_story_of_your_life.pdf 05:50:15 Its very 05:50:22 You put the word 05:51:45 elliott: maybe they invented incremental garbage collection in the type system and the spaceships were just an accidental side effect hth 05:52:28 what 05:52:56 Dulnes: i think it's pretty much overall designed to fit the word "hellish" in there 05:55:49 Thank 05:56:16 So oerjan i got that video 05:57:31 -!- Oren has quit (Quit: Page closed). 05:58:23 But what would the bot do and how would that be possible oerjan 06:02:43 i don't know about any video. 06:03:13 the bot would be able to do some simple reponses that don't require much memory. 06:03:55 malbolge has a strictly limited memory and it takes a lot of cleverness just not to waste a lot of it 06:04:12 * Dulnes Completely ignores that idea and makes the biggest sloppiest bulk bot in malbolge 06:04:24 I now about a video 06:04:39 also, i don't actually know how to concretely program in malbolge 06:04:41 Mmm pickles 06:05:55 Look woman i just wanna work on something very hard and i need a crap language no one uses to do it 06:06:10 hm perhaps what you could do is to implement something compact like forth in it. 06:06:23 I'm curious as to how this assumption of oerjan's gender came about :p 06:06:35 Its an it 06:06:39 * oerjan wasn't noticing that 06:06:47 No one knows eachothers genders 06:07:01 Pretty sure elliott is a girl 06:07:04 some of us may have revealed them. 06:07:21 oerjan is definitely a girl 06:07:24 foolishly 06:07:34 * oerjan swats elliott -----### 06:08:08 do you have some kind of problem with oyrur femininity, oerjan 06:08:26 not as much as with your spelling. 06:08:34 Heh 06:08:39 Dulnes: I don't know about nobody uses it, unless it is unimplemented; however there are some that only one or two people use 06:08:39 Any ways 06:09:00 Like huh?++ 06:09:56 Whatever ill try what oerjan said and compact fourth 06:10:25 i think if you could write a program in malbolge that implemented a simple forth interpreter and managed to compress what's in the rest of memory into its initial data then the rest would be somewhat easy 06:10:50 hth 06:10:58 It does help 06:11:45 Wasted 3 years in learning malbolge i guess i can put this to use 06:12:05 But ill do this tommorow im gonna watch a movie 06:12:10 Bye 06:12:14 bye 06:14:46 * Sgeo wonders if anyone developed a protocol that would make sense for the Discworld Clacks 06:14:54 Preferably including replicating defects 06:15:40 it's semaphore, isn't it? 06:17:23 ... o.O 06:18:13 i don't speak o's 06:18:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_line i mean 06:20:02 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:20:06 Bicyclidine: it's like Ook! just more compact hth 06:20:11 I didn't think they existed in reality 06:20:22 Although I also don't think any real system likely had protocols for sending images 06:20:36 -!- Oren has joined. 06:21:01 Sgeo: wait there's an old obsolete technology which you _don't_ know about? 06:21:15 Sgeo: Then you're reading Pratchett wrong. Almost all technology that exists on Discworld also exists on Earth; it just tends to work in slightly different ways. 06:21:44 well, i was briefly a voy scout. they still teach flag semaphore. 06:22:05 int-e: I thought it was a mashup of telegram and TCP/IP 06:22:08 but no, i don't think images were ever sent over optical telegraph. 06:22:27 optical telegraph is a pretty obvious solution imo. i mean presumably you've heard of signal fires and lights. 06:22:59 Sgeo: Oh, I thought the thing with putting gargoyles on the clacks was somewhat like the step towards directed radio transmission. 06:23:01 oh, there are even older ones http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_telegraph 06:23:10 now this one i hadn't heard of, but is again obvious 06:23:10 int-e: I haven't read/don't remember that. 06:23:43 * Sgeo just watched Going Postal. Read the book but that was years ago 06:23:52 i recall that story about one of the first times they sent images from a phone booth and it got ruined because the phone operator couldn't grasp the concept that they _really_ didn't want her to interrupt to tell they needed to put on more coins 06:24:44 apparently telegraphy was one of the first uses of electromagnetic induction, which i think is neat 06:25:03 like, they tested to see if it would work before they worked out the physical laws 06:25:23 There is a very powerful concise string rewriting language 06:25:29 based on CFG 06:25:59 first you define syntax like this: ::= 00 | 01 | 1 06:26:17 Sgeo: I don't know which book, but at some point they transmit pictures over the clacks, which requires rather high data rates. 06:26:22 then you define rewrite laws like this: 1100 S:x S:y --> x, 11101 S:x S:y S:z --> 11xz1yz 06:26:35 ths implements BCL for example, but you could implement other things 06:26:38 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 06:26:52 Probably Monstrous Regiment. Also occurs in Going Postal but as more of a side note. At least in the TV adoptation 06:27:09 i don't remember clacks even existing in monstrous regiment 06:27:12 They didn't show the vampire turning to dust in the TV adoption of Going Postal 06:27:15 They definitely did 06:27:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 06:27:26 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 06:27:31 And The Truth, a little 06:27:31 i haven't read a discworld book since highschool, ha ha 06:27:33 going postal 06:27:38 it was going postal 06:27:43 they had a race 06:27:59 mail and clacks who sends the book first 06:28:39 I have read every book Sir T.P. has ever published 06:29:21 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:29:37 anyway the mail dude gave the part of the book with all the pictures so the clacks dudes 06:29:47 would have to take time to encode it 06:30:27 Can the initial contents of the inventory be changed without using scripts? 06:30:36 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:31:05 -!- jix_ has joined. 06:31:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:31:39 Sorry, mispaste 06:31:46 -!- dianne_ has joined. 06:37:51 -!- MDude has joined. 06:37:54 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:55 -!- applybot has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:55 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 06:37:55 -!- dianne has quit (*.net *.split). 06:39:34 -!- applybot has joined. 06:45:23 -!- password2 has joined. 06:46:28 There's no adaptation of Making Money :( 06:46:32 And I haven't read it yet either 06:50:11 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 06:51:08 you should 06:51:28 there's a hilarious bit about economic modeling 06:51:41 I'm gonna feel like crap today, I've had next to no sleep :( 06:55:57 why don't you go back to bed? 06:56:07 I'm wide awake now 06:56:17 (I believe it's Saturday so it might be an option) 06:59:13 Actually, yeah 06:59:18 I could just go back to bed 07:06:20 -!- tlewkow_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:06:53 But then how will you make a language based on the power of sleep deprivation? 07:14:51 this is a man who takes his keyboarding seriously ... http://mykeyboard.co.uk/ 07:16:07 esolang wiki is down? 07:16:31 @echo hi 07:16:31 echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "freenode", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo hi"]} target:#esoteric rest:"hi" 07:16:34 oops 07:16:36 `echo hi 07:16:41 and HackEgo 07:16:47 Gregor, ping 07:16:57 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:16:58 (it is all on Gregor's server, right?) 07:17:17 yes, but Gregor has a tendency to be absent for long stretches of time 07:17:25 especially on weekends, i think 07:17:28 hi 07:17:43 oh it's just extremely slow 07:17:45 -!- tlewkow_ has joined. 07:18:13 Ah, esolangs seems to be slooooooooooow but not dead too 07:20:09 someone poke me in an hour <-- did anyone remember? 07:20:31 Remember? I didn't even notice 07:20:37 I remembered because I'm smart and competent 07:20:38 When did elliott say that 07:20:41 yay 07:20:48 elliott, when did you say that? 07:20:55 elliott: i notice *pumpkin isn't here though 07:21:11 also, he should totally add bipumpkin 07:21:47 oerjan: he returned. 07:21:58 ok not on the network at all 07:22:54 Taneb: in the logs 07:22:55 -!- tlewkow_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:23:17 far more than an hour ago 07:23:57 OK, then, I was probably doing something else 07:24:48 well you weren't speaking around that time, anyway 07:25:23 Sometimes I am here but do not speak, normally because I haven't got anything to say 07:25:30 But sometimes because I have no idea what's going on 07:25:44 shocking 07:25:51 And sometimes because I'm busy in another channel which is attracting all of my attention 07:26:37 blasphemy 07:27:00 'The Sorting Engine, designed by "Bloody Stupid" Johnson to have a wheel with a pi equal to exactly three, which bends reality to the point that it occasionally puts out letters from the past, the future, or even from alternate realities (ones where the check really was in the post, for example).' 07:27:06 Now I'm sad that wasn't in the adoption 07:27:52 you can't animate pi=3 physical fact 07:29:07 Researching keyboards, I think I realized just now that I've been mis remembering how the IBM keyboards worked. 07:30:25 I am going to go back to bed now 07:30:31 Good morning. 07:31:23 I barely remember the book 07:31:52 I did remember the jamming of the clacks and was waiting for that while watching, but I don't know if I remember that fromt the books or from reading about the books 07:31:55 *book 07:33:14 -!- password2 has joined. 07:34:11 -!- shikhout has joined. 07:34:37 Someone please ping me if there's a Thief of Time adoptation, I loved the book in high school and gave it to a teacher to read 07:34:54 When running to school sometimes I would think to myself 'HERE COMES THE CLOCK' 07:35:41 IBM buckling spring keyboards don't necessarily have more travel than, say, Cherry switches, it's that they don't bottom out the same: the mechanism stops before the key hits flat with the base, but rather stops against the frame of the switch. 07:36:54 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:40:59 heh hendrik's and henkma's A057755 solutions are literally identical (and expectedly very close to mine) 07:41:34 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 07:41:55 -!- dts has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:42:29 -!- tlewkow has joined. 07:45:09 @tell int-e darn if i had knew my 1+2^n`div`54426 was so close to working... 07:45:09 Consider it noted. 07:46:59 -!- tlewkow has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:48:07 @tell int-e *known 07:48:07 Consider it noted. 07:56:49 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 08:01:03 * oerjan has arrived at the point in the logs where fizzie and fungot get indistinguishible 08:01:03 oerjan: the one that symbolizes our family: each saves a million right words to you, you'd become instantly paralyzed with a life-shattering fear, for many people! 08:01:30 fungot: how apocalyptic of you 08:01:30 oerjan: that you all for them, i have come up with a new saddest thing ever!!... which is also nice, until a really attractive friend of theirs shows, interviews, documentaries about me, make new friends, and start a life of lies? 08:01:40 ^style 08:01:40 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz* sms speeches ss wp youtube 08:05:08 * Sgeo vaguely recalls disliking The Colour of Magic but liking The Light Fantastic. I think The Light Fantastic was the first Discworld book I read. Sadly, The Colour of Magic has an adoptation while The Light Fantastic doens't seem to 08:07:10 oh I see 08:07:12 you read the logs 08:07:18 Also, I had no idea that you could only get n-key rollover on a PS/2 keyboard. I wonder why that is? 08:12:14 cluid: ? 08:12:36 The USB HID protocol involves sending the full keypress state of the keyboard 08:14:22 Sgeo: cluid is a bit slow hth 08:14:50 as am i 08:14:52 J_Arcane: it's easier to connect keys in some sort of grid than to have a wire (plus ground) to each individual key 08:15:28 the 5 hours is probably going to be a gross underestimate today 08:15:42 int-e: Yeah, but what I found odd is that some keyboards have n-key but only if you use the PS2 connector. 08:16:18 It seems to specifically a limitation in the connector protocol, as Jafet says. 08:16:39 Hmm. I dunno. I thought in those old protocols keyboards would just send differential "this key was pressed" and "this key was released" messages. 08:16:50 There's a _THIRD_ Moist von Lipwig book? 08:17:38 And by "thought" it means I made this assumption based on the AT keyboard controller's programming interface. 08:17:45 ... 08:18:22 Sgeo: yes. Going Postal, Making Money, and Raising Taxes. 08:18:41 Raising Steam, I thought? 08:18:51 taxing steam 08:18:52 (the ... was for typo-ing "I" as "it") 08:19:17 Oh wait. 08:19:36 Haha. There's some foreshadowing on taxes at the end of that book, isn't there... 08:20:50 Yeah. 08:21:06 Anyway, my wife balked at me spending €135 on a keyboard, so instead I'm just going to try a Durandal; just can't decide which switches I want. Leaning towards the Blues and getting some o-rings to put on it. 08:27:18 Do you know the Famicom keyboard protocol? It allows you to push all the keys since it just reads a bit for each key pushed or not. 08:29:12 J_Arcane: after a bit of research, what one gets from the controller is also what happens on the wire, so from the PS2 protocol perspective there is no reason for this limitation. In fact http://blog.controlspace.org/2010/08/n-key-rollover-what-it-is-and-how-to.html says that USB limits rollover but PS2 doesn't. 08:29:33 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:29:58 @tell Vorpal Is there a way to say to cabal "fix mixed versions"? I.e rebuild any packages depending on different versions of a package so that everything just works, and I don't get weird errors. <-- apart from the sandbox thing, i vaguely think that if you install all the packages as _one_ cabal install command it will seek versions that work with all simultaneously 08:29:58 Consider it noted. 08:30:18 J_Arcane: I think I interpreted your statement wrong, because I'd never heard of n-key-rollover. My bad. 08:31:18 -!- tlewkow has joined. 08:31:32 ("n" is not meant as a limitation to some particular n, but means "unbounded".) 08:33:32 int-e: Yeah. N-key (as opposed to 3-key, 6-key etc.) means you can hit all the keys at once; each are detected individually. Most membrane keys are only 3-key. 08:34:38 -!- Dulnes has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:35:55 why would anyone type with both shift keys pressed... 08:35:58 ;) 08:36:00 USB is apparently limited to 6-key + 4 mod-keys. 08:36:09 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:36:50 HE QUIK BROWN FO JUPS OER HE LA DOG <-- I wonder whether one could recognize keyboard models that way 08:37:09 int-e: I've had problems in the past with things like Emacs or IDE shortcuts based on symbols, because I have a Finnish keyboard, and AltGr is a pain in the arse. 08:39:23 > map head.group.sort$"HE QUIK BROWN FO JUPS OER HE LA DOG" 08:39:24 " ABDEFGHIJKLNOPQRSUW" 08:41:19 -!- dts has joined. 08:42:39 I don't think this has been much of an issue for me ever since I stopped playing Bomberman against others. 08:43:17 I get: H UCK BON FOX JUMPD OV H LAZY DOG 08:43:24 MS Comfort Curve. 08:44:04 huck on fox jumpd ov h lazy dog 08:44:55 -!- InvalidCo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:46:49 Other nice perk of getting a Cherry MX based board: stuff like this: http://keypuller.com/dsa-retro/ 09:09:39 -!- Oren has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:15:34 -!- cluid has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:34:16 -!- weissschloss has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:39:28 -!- weissschloss has joined. 10:07:19 -!- nooga has joined. 10:25:16 There was an attempt to add some flags that disable nested functions, but that ran into some other issue that I forget. <-- well the first issue is that gcc simply doesn't _have_ a flag to turn it off. 10:25:33 i think there was talk about other hacks to achieve it, though. 10:25:56 that is, it doesn't have a flag to turn off that specifically. 10:46:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:57:19 -!- InvalidCo has joined. 11:04:17 -!- password2 has joined. 11:07:27 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:08:33 -!- dts has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:25:06 -!- password2 has joined. 11:38:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:39:38 -!- augur has joined. 11:39:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:40:06 -!- augur has joined. 11:56:19 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:14:39 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:27:00 -!- password2 has joined. 12:45:09 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:57:27 -!- password2 has joined. 13:10:07 -!- Oren has joined. 13:12:30 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:19:06 -!- S1 has joined. 13:24:20 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 13:31:39 Wait, irssi has an UPGRADE command? Why didn't I try that... 13:34:03 -!- shikhout has joined. 13:37:35 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:47:10 -!- password2 has joined. 13:55:23 -!- CADD has joined. 14:04:12 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:08:00 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41242&oldid=41241 * SuperJedi224 * (+401) /* Some Commands */ 14:15:16 Just ordered this: http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/01G1XX1NOBK 14:15:44 -!- password2 has joined. 14:16:22 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 14:17:00 -!- password2 has joined. 14:42:55 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:54:18 -!- int-e has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:54:43 -!- int-e has joined. 14:58:09 -!- password2 has joined. 14:58:46 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 15:00:34 -!- password2 has joined. 15:06:51 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 15:09:28 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:26:07 -!- password2 has joined. 15:29:59 -!- tlewkow has joined. 15:57:09 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:59:18 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:21:50 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 16:27:20 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:30:29 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 16:35:23 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 16:41:11 http://regexcrossword.com/ 16:45:09 ಠ_ಠ 16:48:06 -!- tlewkow has joined. 16:56:43 Last I looked, those were a lot simpler than the MIT Mystery Hunt one, though I think they only had categories up to "Double Cross" then. 17:19:30 userreport.com ... really?! 17:20:57 what about it? 17:20:58 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:21:45 -!- MDude has joined. 17:27:17 -!- MDud has joined. 17:27:31 -!- MDud has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:28:00 -!- MDud has joined. 17:28:33 -!- EvanR has joined. 17:30:31 [ABC]\s(LU|LP)]* <-- what kind of regex is that supposed to be... 17:30:35 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:31:09 I tried one of the "Experienced" ones, and there seems to be lots of redundant information 17:31:13 -!- benzrf has joined. 17:31:17 oh lol 17:31:26 > test 17:31:27 [Char]> 17:31:29 Hi benzrf 17:31:35 hi FireFly 17:31:52 > :doc Group 17:31:53 :1:1: parse error on input ‘:’ 17:31:58 heuh 17:32:00 * FireFly isn't sure whether `relcome is appropriate or not 17:32:01 -!- benzrf has left. 17:32:06 ...I guess not 17:35:40 is php on topic here? 17:36:55 Heh. "PHP considered esoteric" would be good Hacker News bait. ;) 17:37:01 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:38:19 `relcome EvanR 17:38:21 ​EvanR: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:38:56 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:43:43 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:44:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:44:41 ouch 17:50:46 PHP can be esoteric depending on programming practices 17:50:55 it has arcana 17:51:42 Like suppose you disallowed access to variable except through that $GLOBALS thingy 17:52:01 a dialect like that would be quite esoteric 17:52:50 but then a lot lof languages have easily abuasble parts 17:53:08 or you cant assign locals without using extract 17:53:09 s/buas/busa 17:53:29 or $$ 17:53:46 yeah that sort of thing. IIRC there is a dialect of Ruby on the wiki somewhere 17:56:29 blah blah "You can go ahead and be proud. You are now among the elite group of poultry who has completed our most prestigious Experienced challenge." ... nah, those were easy. 17:56:42 And poultry, seriously?! 17:57:59 -!- password2 has joined. 17:58:01 "you're too chicken for this challenge" 17:58:16 ilove eating chickens 18:05:55 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:11:58 Right, I'm awake 18:18:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:19:39 -!- password2 has joined. 18:19:48 good morning! 18:20:17 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:20:27 Well, it's 20 past 6 in the evening now 18:20:56 ohayou~~ guten morgen~ buongiorno 18:21:00 -!- password2 has joined. 18:21:22 it's about midday where I am 18:23:43 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 18:24:52 -!- idris-bot has joined. 18:25:27 -!- centrinia has joined. 18:28:44 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:29:30 -!- HackEgo has joined. 18:29:56 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:39:50 -!- MDude has joined. 18:42:36 -!- Oren has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:43:59 -!- MDud has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:46:17 -!- nyuszika7h has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:51:57 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:52:00 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:52:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:55:58 int-e: /upgrade does terrifying things 18:56:27 int-e: it uses the "exec keeps our fds" trick and is a huge scary hack :p 18:56:38 I remember looking up the details on how it passes the state. 18:56:46 remember when I made mcmap do it? 18:56:52 Vaguely. 18:57:12 nice, my running irssi is over four years out of date 18:57:19 xmonad also has a --restart which does a serialize-state-and-so-on thing. 18:57:21 that restart'll be a doozy 18:57:28 I hope this doesn't have any security holes 18:57:44 xmonad does it in a less terrifying way, I think, though 18:57:53 I assume it keeps the X socket alive across it, still. Though I haven't checked. 18:58:03 I do know it serializes the state into a command line argument. 18:58:49 oh, also /upgrade disconnects you from TLS servers 18:58:50 boring 18:58:59 wouldn't help me at all then 18:59:00 Unsurprising though. 18:59:09 pikhq_: it could serialise that state too 18:59:14 Because after I do xmonad --restart, the process command line is like "xmonad-x86_64-linux --resume StackSet {current = Screen {workspace ... layout = "Choose L (ModifiedLayout (ConfigurableBorder Never []) (ModifiedLayout (AvoidStruts (fromList [U,D,R,L])) (Choose L (HintedTile {nmaster = 1, delta = 3 % 100, frac = 1 % 2, alignment = TopLeft, orientation = Tall}) (Choose ..." and so on. 18:59:25 [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41243&oldid=41101 * 106.216.167.230 * (+129) /* Normal implementations */ 18:59:33 (Welp, saunatime.) 18:59:34 -!- adu has joined. 18:59:51 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit). 19:00:25 elliott: Yeah, but OpenSSL has a lot of state. 19:00:58 yeah. 19:00:59 [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41244&oldid=41243 * 106.216.167.230 * (+13) /* Normal implementations */ 19:01:09 trying to do this kind of upgrade functionality ad-hoc is sort of hopeless. 19:01:40 if you wnat /upgrade with TLS, run a local proxy to do the TLS for you and connect to that I suppose 19:01:45 *want to 19:08:37 yes split the program into processes that can be rebooted separately 19:08:49 thats what i was thinking for a mud server 19:08:57 reload the game without disconnecting users 19:09:58 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 19:13:04 fizzie: it can't be more horrible than fvwm's restart mechanism 19:13:38 (which does the xmonad thing, serialize state to disk, exec keeping the X11 fd, reload...) 19:14:05 or perhaps not keeping the X11 fd, I forgot. 19:15:09 why would it have to keep the x11 fd? can't it just reconnect? 19:15:15 hmm, if only dominosa numbered squares from 1, I could now save 4 strokes in my dc solution. 19:15:38 b_jonas: yeah. I think it does that. 19:16:05 does X at least try to make this kind of restarting easy by giving windows a unique id that isn't reused quickly? 19:18:42 -!- centrinia has joined. 19:21:42 -!- centrinia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:21:58 zzo38: so http://esolangs.org/wiki/REGXY is basically a useful subset of sed, except that it allows backreferences to more than nine capture groups (that limit in painful sed because there are no non-capturing parens)? 19:34:01 -!- shikhout has joined. 19:34:48 -!- dts has joined. 19:37:11 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:38:25 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:40:59 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 19:47:09 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41245&oldid=41242 * SuperJedi224 * (+2100) 19:48:13 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41246&oldid=41245 * SuperJedi224 * (-75) /* Command Summary */ 19:48:29 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 19:48:50 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 19:49:04 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41247&oldid=41246 * SuperJedi224 * (+62) /* Command Summary */ 19:50:46 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41248&oldid=41247 * SuperJedi224 * (+66) /* Command Summary */ 19:51:19 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41249&oldid=41248 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) /* Command Summary */ 20:08:22 -!- Oren has joined. 20:10:16 int-e: I don't think irssi used the disk. 20:10:36 int-e: I'm not sure if it was irssi or some other program, but I distinctly remember something using a shared memory block for that. 20:15:11 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:15:57 what did mcmap do again? 20:15:59 -!- tlewkow has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:15:59 I remember it being horrible 20:16:48 It was a sort of in-between server 20:25:05 That's not the horrible part. 20:25:23 -!- dts has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:26:07 g_file_open_tmp("mcmap.XXXXXX"), raw write(2) of a couple of structures, execl, add an --upgrade command line argument that takes an fd number as argument. 20:26:57 The fd argument being the temporary file those things were written. 20:27:14 [wiki] [[Talk:GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41250&oldid=41235 * SuperJedi224 * (+106) 20:27:29 Taneb: I know that much, considering how much code I wrote for it :p 20:27:35 fizzie: right. 20:29:20 I've been using GNU stow to manage ~/local/ but now I'm wondering if I should use the "modules" thing -- http://modules.sourceforge.net/ -- we use at the university, instead. I'm not sure I want to have all kinds of silly stuff in path all the time. (Just most of it.) 20:30:20 fizzie: have you seen cpressey's toolshelf? 20:30:24 @google cpressey toolshelf 20:30:25 https://github.com/cpressey/dotfiles/commits/master 20:30:30 @google cpressey toolshelf github 20:30:30 https://github.com/catseye/toolshelf/commits/master 20:30:36 @google catseye toolshelf 20:30:37 https://bitbucket.org/catseye/toolshelf 20:30:40 @google catseye toolshelf github 20:30:41 https://github.com/catseye/toolshelf 20:30:45 finally 20:32:38 I think I remember seeing that. 20:33:05 But I don't remember how it differs from stow. 20:33:18 I guess the automatic building part. 20:34:36 (Where "building" means source-fetching, configuring, building and installing.) 20:35:50 -!- dts has joined. 20:36:09 (Yesterday's successful speech recognition chat inspired me to try getting a working copy of our lab's thing at home.) 20:36:31 that some definition of success 20:36:38 hello speech recognition 20:36:50 It did make me laugh multiple times. 20:38:06 just on my honeymoon 20:38:48 fizzie: um what? 20:39:06 b_jonas: What what? 20:39:20 what was yesterday's successful speech recognition chat? I 20:39:27 don't think I've heared of it 20:39:41 Well, you're in luck, I collected the highlights to a paste. 20:39:43 Just a moment. 20:39:44 was when I hope Chelsea defender 20:39:52 http://sprunge.us/hChg there you go 20:39:53 thanks 20:39:54 fizzie: oh, god, did you show other people this? 20:40:02 elliott: Just ineiros. 20:40:34 elliott: He had the gall to suggest using speech recognition for IRC might lead to "misunderstandings". 20:40:43 Had to prove him wrong, you see. 20:40:53 oh! 20:41:06 I think I saw some of that, I remember the "somethign something is shaped" 20:41:12 but I didn't know it was speech recognition 20:41:23 You just thought we've all lost our minds? 20:41:58 no, that sentence didn't seem too off at this channel 20:42:05 "autobots truck driver" was really good 20:44:03 "F you and G oh T" nice 20:44:29 elliott: That was "-- what device are you using [hesitation] or software", I think. 20:45:05 I may have made some sort of non-lexical sound. 20:45:35 "oh you meant Ahmed lemon finance 10m kinetic Thunderhead Gangnam 20:45:36 " 20:45:37 lol 20:45:44 That was all me trying to say "Taneb". 20:46:07 I'm not sure how it got "finance" out of that. 20:46:40 Or, well, any of the others, either. 20:46:46 Ahmed I can see 20:46:59 It's got the right vowels 20:47:30 And a nasal sound in the middle, and a plosive at the end. Okay, it's somewhat reasonable. 20:49:01 I don't know how I missed this 20:50:16 nice 20:50:17 fizzie: thanks 20:50:52 “xD O'Toole” is the best thing ever. 20:53:30 well, it seemed to work well 21:00:21 if i wanted to make an esolang, what should i do 21:01:37 read the entire wiki and figure out what hasnt been done yet 21:04:30 Have an idea, write it down 21:07:40 -!- MoALTz has joined. 21:12:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:12:46 -!- hjulle has joined. 21:14:47 There's a page of free-to-all ideas too, IIRC. 21:14:54 (Disclaimer: the ideas might not be good ones.) 21:16:27 -!- tlewkow has joined. 21:17:04 just whatever you do, DON'T MAKE A BRAINFUCK-DERIVED LANGUAGE 21:18:34 :D 21:19:11 I have yet to write a brainfuck. I almost went through one of the Racket #lang tutorials for doing one, but got distracted making something else and realized it didn't really show me anything I couldn't figure out myself. 21:19:50 I've got most of a brainfuck implementation in Scheme 21:20:53 (in particular, a lot of the tutorials on defining your own #lang modules conveniently fail to go into the dependency issues involved in setting up anything larger than a single sourcefile ...) 21:21:27 -!- tlewkow has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:22:46 -!- adu has joined. 21:26:10 write a specification 21:26:47 or an implementation 21:27:58 no.1 is the normal approach, no.2 is the Perl approach 21:28:24 -!- Oren has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:28:45 -!- ORen has joined. 21:29:36 J_Arcane: I'm still actively try to resist writing one. I have an idea on the ideas page that I could turn into a brainfuck-like, but I don't want to. I need some other simple language to modify instead. 21:29:38 is it more common for a spec to exist first, or an implementation 21:29:57 for esolangs that is 21:30:13 -!- Dulnes has joined. 21:30:14 implementation-first is more usual than spec-first 21:30:18 for all languages 21:30:21 actually 21:30:23 probably not for esolang 21:30:24 s 21:30:24 I wrote VIOLET with a spec first. Heresy doesn't have a spec though, it just has Ground Rules. But it's a lab language for me, really. 21:30:28 Can you recommend me a simple enough language that is definitely not brainfuck, and has some sort of parenthesis that have to be balanced, like the brakcets in bf? 21:30:56 Javascript 21:30:58 b_jonas: regexp? ;) 21:31:15 Dulnes: simple, I said simple 21:31:30 That is simple! 21:31:37 lisp 21:31:58 a minimal lisp could be very minimal 21:32:08 ORen: hmm yeah, somethign like that could work 21:32:39 (I have a small lisp implementation, though it's not really good, it bothers me that it doesn't have a |let| builtin, nor a way to define macros) 21:32:45 I'll think if I can modify it 21:32:50 Javascript is simple idk what you are on about b_jonas 21:33:15 though I was also thinking of making a syntax for a lips that looks like BancSTAR 21:33:27 hmm, I wonder if I could combine these two 21:33:54 b_jonas: implement PILOT with s-expressions. 21:33:58 javascript is too C-like 21:34:20 ALGOL dialects are hard to parse 21:35:38 lisp on the other hand is almost trivial to write a parser 21:35:43 If cars could run off code then I'd be set. 21:35:59 ORen: yeah. (read ...) ;) 21:36:07 Its how you use javascript that makes it C like 21:36:13 "everything is easy in lisp, read, eval" 21:36:16 ORen: in Python there's a standard library that basically already does the necessary string-split routine. 21:37:23 javascriPt++ or was it JAVASCRIpT++ idk which letter it was 21:37:52 the problem with ALGOL dialects is the precedence rules. it requires a lot of mulstmt := mulstmt '*' expstmt grabage 21:38:05 Indeed 21:38:29 people use bison for parsers? 21:38:32 or what 21:39:09 Use XML and be done with it 21:39:24 I have used bison, but any language with a decent grammar doesn't need it imo 21:39:29 ORen: increasingly, I find myself unable to be excited by a language if I see curly braces in it. 21:39:30 XML, thats another esoteric language people dont usually think of 21:39:39 Also what are you trying to do b_jonas 21:39:54 dunno, I'll have to think more of this 21:39:57 EvanR: I have a friend who works at a shop with an inhouse scripting language implemented entirely as xml tags. 21:40:05 !!! 21:40:07 unclosed? 21:40:31 i guess its real xml if they are "leveraging" the reader 21:41:49 J_Arcane: It's a surprisingly common thing, sadly. 21:42:43 EvanR: Yeah, Bison is still pretty common for parsers. 21:42:59 It ain't the best, but it is at least well-supported everywhere and does at least do the job. 21:43:44 Someone recommend a amazing parsing language 21:43:55 attoparsec 21:44:02 Wait what was the question we were on 21:44:06 b_jonas: what about underload? 21:44:13 Also thanks EvanR 21:45:13 "My skin is made of paper my bones are made of glass" 21:45:36 elliott: I dunno... maybe that could work, but the problem is that I don't really understand underload 21:45:48 any decent language can be parsed with no backtracking and no lookahead 21:46:15 prove it! 21:46:27 b_jonas: you can view it as either a self-modifying language based on strings, or a simple stack-based functional language 21:46:58 you know what I should do? 21:47:04 Nothing 21:47:27 I should try to collect all the strange ideas I've had about what esolangs I should make, and then try to see how many I could satisfy together with a single esolang. 21:47:49 Some of them are certainly contradictory, but still 21:48:06 Why not mix every esolang together and make a new hybrid 21:48:18 Group project 21:48:19 Dulnes: because that would be a brainfuck-alike, silly 21:48:31 Shoot 21:48:43 Darn you bf 21:48:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:49:05 bf is still too algol-like 21:49:23 hi, ais 21:49:51 it has the hegemonic dijkstraic while loop 21:49:52 what are lambdabot's syntax's i forgot 21:50:02 ?help 21:50:02 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 21:50:04 @help 21:50:04 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 21:50:07 Thank 21:50:12 @source 21:50:12 Unknown command, try @list 21:50:13 hi b_jonas 21:50:24 ?list 21:50:24 What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. 21:50:27 bleh, I've been obsessed with LCRNGs over the last few days 21:50:38 ais523: whatRNGs? 21:50:51 Ill go play with lambdabot later 21:50:56 state' = (state * a + b) mod c 21:50:57 b_jonas: LCRNGs generally 21:51:05 the best loop structure for any problem is loop( ... if(cond)end; ... ) 21:51:22 ais523: but what is an LCRNG? 21:51:25 I should go complain about Rust on Reddit 21:51:48 b_jonas: Linear congruential, I'm guessing. 21:51:52 ah! 21:51:54 that makes sense 21:51:59 the best loop structure is a list 21:52:16 they say the best loops in life are free 21:52:47 If the universe were a curved in the right way, you'd have a perfect loop right there, for free 21:52:52 the condition should be able to go anywhere inside the loop, not just at the start 21:53:05 b_jonas: newsham's formula is correct 21:53:22 Sgeo: is that a new esolang? ;) 21:53:30 but dijkstra-inspired people want to take away my break; statment 21:53:35 The infinite loop string in bash is very fun 21:53:39 Yes. We're all living in an esolang right now. 21:53:52 Sgeo: agreed 21:53:55 we so are 21:54:02 we're just the holographic projection of an esolang 21:54:09 that exists on the surface of our universe 21:54:19 of the boundary of our universe 21:54:38 The horizon of the universe where matter is faster than light 21:54:47 forget loops, no loops 21:55:12 so only gotos 21:55:13 alternatively, everything infinitely loops 21:55:36 Infinite loops while :; do echo 'Hit example key'; sleep 1; done 21:56:51 no backward branches, only infinite programs? 21:57:12 yes the program itself is infinite 21:57:23 solving part of the issue right there 21:58:02 i will use a finite looping program to generate an infinite program, ok? 21:58:11 boring 21:58:14 Hf with that 21:58:28 describe the program in a timeless manner 21:59:35 ORen: kinda misses the "structure" in "structured programming" 21:59:48 let the program be a mapping from the ordinals 22:00:00 Im gonna puke brb 22:01:01 down with dijkstra 22:01:10 f n | even n = emit state | otherwise = state := state + 1 22:01:31 YES 22:01:40 Oh my 22:02:35 if you want the program to halt you put | n > N : nop 22:02:56 now assign numeric values to each operation, and take its fourier transform... 22:03:05 or some more interesting condition that beomes forever true 22:03:17 I BETTER NOT SEE ANY FINITE SIGNAL AT ANY FINITE FREQUENCY! 22:03:32 these are good ideas 22:03:49 periodic programs == looping!@# 22:04:15 specifically infinite looping 22:05:11 the kernel better continue its infinite looping 22:05:19 or else 22:05:43 (er, interrupt handling, nevermind) 22:06:35 how about concurrent esolangs 22:08:55 prog p n = toEnum ((collatz p !! n) `mod` maxBound) 22:09:13 `mod` maxBound sounds like a nop 22:09:15 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mod`: not found 22:09:26 er, no 22:09:34 `mod` maxBound is id unless the argument is maxBound I guess 22:09:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mod`: not found 22:09:59 maxBound of program instructions enum 22:10:35 collatz n | even n = n : collatz (n `div 2) | otherwise = n : collatz (3 * n + 1) 22:10:44 i thought about using collatz somehow 22:11:21 does (prog p) loop for some arbitrary p? 22:13:47 wouldnt !! n crash on a list too short 22:14:07 or is it infinite 22:14:17 ok 22:14:19 collatz is an infinite sequence 22:14:51 thats a good one 22:15:06 > let collatz n = if (even n) then n : collatz (n `div` 2) else n : collatz (3*n + 1) in collatz 55 22:15:08 [55,166,83,250,125,376,188,94,47,142,71,214,107,322,161,484,242,121,364,182,... 22:15:08 1 is odd so it become 4 22:15:28 4 2 1 4 2 1 4 2 1.. 22:15:33 > let collatz n = if (even n) then n : collatz (n `div` 2) else n : collatz (3*n + 1) in collatz 4 22:15:34 [4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2... 22:16:29 > let collatz n = if (even n) then n : collatz (n `div` 2) else n : collatz (3*n + 1) in length (takeWhile (/= 1) (collatz 55)) 22:16:30 112 22:17:31 -!- tlewkow has joined. 22:21:10 data INSTR = NOP | PRINTSTATE | INPUT | SUB | ACCUM 22:21:34 I want to add the ability for the host program to give a library of functions to a scrip7 script... but i'm not sure what the best way to do this is 22:21:36 4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,... = ACCUM, INPUT, PRINTSTATE, ACCUM, INPUT, PRINTSTATE 22:22:18 -!- tlewkow has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:22:20 newsham: that is awesome 22:22:23 -!- adu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:23:16 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:24:54 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 22:25:17 mybe a H (for 'host call') instruction 22:26:12 fine what that last one was my wife crying ← I found that impressive (re. speech recognition) 22:27:35 Hm? 22:29:51 well, I want a scrip7 script to be able to access C functions particular to the host program 22:30:33 like for example "draw sprite" in a game 22:31:23 but the architecture of such a 'host call' brings up conflicts of C vs scrip7 semantics 22:31:38 FireFly: In case it wasn't clear, that was she trying to say "fungot". 22:32:03 Speaking of which, where is it. 22:32:37 fizzie: I did realise that, but the second line tripped me up for a split second yesterday before realising crying ~ trying 22:32:39 Hm, is holmes.freenode.net not answering. 22:32:52 " the Mondeo system also I love smoking bowl out of snow" what was that supposed to be? 22:32:57 The latter half, that is 22:33:11 fungot [fis@selene.zem.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:33:28 that happened at 17:22 22:33:36 Oh, never mind, I see you got it right after a while 22:33:45 FireFly: "The module system also allows installing multiple versions", and yes. 22:34:31 -!- fungot has joined. 22:34:33 fizzie: I like how the word your wife wants to say in #esoteric is just "fungot". 22:34:33 elliott: you said " mycorand works" soon after pasting it after module imports should work). i did not intend quine statement by itself to see if a socket read would block or not... 22:34:36 why say anything else in #esoteric. 22:38:01 Quite so. Though I think it was in response to my unsuccessful attempts. 22:39:00 I know! 22:39:22 I'll allow host program to "register" new operations 22:39:57 before calling interpreter 22:41:00 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:43:08 -!- ORen has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:51:24 -!- EvanR has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:52:04 An April Fools' Day article about Magic The Gathering detailed a supposed ultimate deck that "never allows your opponent to deal lethal damage" and "ends games quickly". It actually consisted entirely of ways to trigger a "you automatically lose" condition. 22:52:08 * Sgeo wants to read this 22:55:56 Sgeo: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/fastest-turn-1-kill-guaranteed/ 22:57:44 But I think there are some decks that will be able to deal lethal damage before you have a chance to lose. 23:00:41 [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41251&oldid=41249 * SuperJedi224 * (+259) /* Command Summary */ 23:00:48 -!- nys has joined. 23:03:33 ty shachaf 23:11:22 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:12:58 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Client Quit). 23:15:41 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:16:47 I think I'll try and enter the IOCCC next year 23:17:30 I have the advantage that I'm terrible at C so most of my C is obfuscated 23:18:36 -!- tlewkow has joined. 23:18:55 Taneb: you should enter the underhanded c code contest instead 23:19:10 shachaf, that makes me feel guilty 23:19:24 ok, you should enter it in addition 23:23:16 -!- tlewkow has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:24:39 -!- boily has joined. 23:33:11 Taneb: instead of going to spain you could go to california 23:33:24 Perl 23:33:25 I was thinking maybe Hampshire 23:33:31 Mr krabs daughter 23:33:39 Or Kent! I know people in Kent! 23:34:17 how about New Hampshire 23:35:30 What's even in New Hampshire 23:35:38 Elves 23:36:01 I'm British, I can find elves anywhere. 23:36:10 Elvis 23:36:11 I've even been accused of being an elf myself 23:36:17 Happy birthday Taneb 23:36:19 ion, I thought he was in Cornwall 23:36:31 Dulnes, I don't think it is my birthday 23:36:56 Im obviously talking to your alternate universe self 23:37:00 -!- Oren has joined. 23:37:13 I don't think it is my alternate universe self's birthday either 23:37:19 Psht 23:37:41 That's in June 23:38:33 How was your day 23:38:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:39:00 Also why are perl bots so annoying to make 23:39:00 Well, I woke up about 6 hours ago 23:39:22 Elves are terrific, they beget terror 23:39:40 Taneb: 5 hours here hth 23:39:53 oerjan, that... 23:39:54 terry pratchett - lords and ladies 23:39:59 I don't think time zones work like that 23:40:07 ... 23:40:13 i don't work like time zones indeed 23:40:52 Of course, I woke up at four simultaneous times in a single rotation of the time cube 23:41:01 good, good 23:41:36 Time Cube does have some good advice in it 23:41:43 "Seek Awesome Lectures" for example 23:41:44 for example? 23:42:07 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [). 23:42:24 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:42:42 scoofy, it gets a lot of things wrong, such as the number of faces on a cube 23:42:54 hah. 23:42:57 hey i never realized that 23:43:07 does he think a cube has 4 faces? 23:43:31 well does he say the time cube is 3-dimensional, otherwise there are many options 23:44:06 hypercubes would have 2d faces 23:44:37 @{[ $text =~ /\b[A-Z]+\b/g ]} >3; replace + with {2,} 23:44:55 trying to make sense of time cube somehow would be a bit like trying to implement TURKEY BOMB, no? 23:45:06 I have no idea 23:45:12 http://timecube.com/TimeCube_com_newpicture_EarthCube.jpg 23:45:12 What a time cube is 23:45:29 TURKEY BOMB, the first known programming-language-cum-drinking-game 23:45:37 ... 23:45:40 I parsed that totally wrong 23:45:51 Oren: ARGH CANNOT UNSEE 23:45:57 they are using the latin word cum but I read it as.... 23:46:04 (mind you, i'm not really upset) 23:46:07 Cum drinking game 23:46:12 What 23:46:15 exactly 23:46:17 * oerjan swats Dulnes -----### 23:46:25 DON'T EXPLAIN THE JOKE 23:46:25 :T 23:46:30 Heh 23:46:50 Im thoroughly done 23:46:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:47:26 oerjan, where is that from? 23:47:30 afk 23:47:32 Oren, rather 23:47:32 oerjan: There's a locally famous Finnish person with a somewhat similar theory about how everything is made out of ether vortices, he spends time selling his self-published books about it at universities and such. 23:47:42 https://github.com/catseye/Specs-on-Spec/blob/master/turkey-bomb/turkey-bomb.markdown 23:47:53 from here, firstline 23:47:55 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kauko_Nieminen.jpg 23:48:54 I don't think the TURKEY BOMB rules preclude using cum as the drink 23:49:14 ((programming language) cum (drinking game)) 23:49:23 yes. I know. I'm just saying. 23:49:38 The women in these men's lives clearly had NO idea what was going on the the back yard. Free-range kids and turkey frying just DONT go together. 23:49:41 not (programming language ((cum drinking) game)) 23:51:58 -!- GeekDude has joined. 23:52:00 this is why formal grammars are important 23:52:42 Guys 23:53:25 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [). 23:53:27 yah? 23:53:38 Stop talking about this 23:53:45 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:53:45 TURKEY BOMB, the first known programming-language-cum-drinking-game 23:53:47 what's wrong with cum drinking 23:53:49 Leaves 23:53:57 Well for one 23:54:05 STDS 23:54:09 high in protein 23:54:21 To much protein 23:54:34 good for your gainz 23:54:37 lol 23:54:46 Also this is off topic 23:54:53 TURKEY BOMB, the first known programming-language-cum-drinking-game 23:54:55 What if a new guy came in and saw 23:54:58 That 23:55:16 `quote read the bible 23:55:18 407) So... God has jizzed on everything? have you even READ the bible? 23:55:42 Welp 23:56:00 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Client Quit). 23:56:19 The first time I went on here we were discussing someithing worse 23:56:21 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:56:29 I have a list of files with mmddyy_nnnnn format 23:56:40 why? 23:56:41 What were you discussing 23:56:54 necrophilia iirc 23:57:04 Im done 23:57:25 Why? Oren why 23:57:37 look in the logs for three days ago 23:57:46 it shouldbe there 23:57:49 Im kinda scared 23:58:11 mmddyy? You monster 23:58:12 wasn't it vore 23:58:29 oh right 23:58:34 it was 23:58:38 Well i remember that 23:58:46 I started it 23:59:08 and I came on here and that was the first topic 23:59:13 How do I find the file with highest number in postfix "nnnnn" using perl 23:59:29 par for the course on the internet of course 23:59:59 I think some one set that as topic