00:00:43 <CrazyM4n> int-e: I wouldn't know, I don't use emacs (or vim either, to avoid starting arguments :P)
00:01:27 <int-e> Just use $EDITOR, nuff said.
00:01:53 <|oren\> ed is the standard editor
00:02:10 <int-e> I *can* use ed to make simple edits.
00:03:03 <CrazyM4n> http://i.imgur.com/SS87Vwe.png I regret trying ed
00:03:12 <|oren\> anyone who knows vi well can use ed if they remeber which commands are new in vi
00:03:32 <int-e> CrazyM4n: possibly q! or Q if you actually managed to edit anything.
00:03:55 <CrazyM4n> I was in /dev with no root I think I'm safe
00:04:24 <int-e> yes, ed is world-renown for its informative error messages.
00:05:34 <olsner> ctrl-d seems to work to quit too (unless you've managed to get into some weird mode first)
00:06:06 * olsner just made a two-line text file in ed!
00:06:11 <|oren\> the easiest editor is cat. sometimes i write whole programs with cat.
00:07:18 <shachaf> binary search is so annoying to implement hth
00:07:55 <cluid> cat isn't a very good editor since you can't go back
00:08:27 <|oren\> cluid: that is why you must make up for it by being a great programmer!
00:08:43 <cluid> i sort of want to make an editor now
00:08:52 <cluid> similar to cat but more advanecd
00:09:13 <int-e> CrazyM4n: http://sprunge.us/RERS - it's just vi without the visual ;-)
00:09:15 <elliott> cluid: you can go back on the same line
00:09:32 <elliott> yeah because terminals are line-buffered
00:09:42 <elliott> did I just boost your workflow
00:11:06 <oerjan> surely 'sed -i' is the ed-derivative of choice
00:12:34 <CrazyM4n> int-e: Ed is actually, you know, kinda cool
00:13:55 <elliott> once I did some editing with ed just so I could say I did
00:14:28 <elliott> it's a good very bad editor. if you'd like a very bad editor I recommend ed
00:14:37 <|oren\> ok, i am now working on a crude editor which i shall call kitten.
00:15:20 <elliott> I think teco was less horrible to use but weirder
00:16:39 <oerjan> the mud i played back in 1992 or so had an internal editor that was ed-like. that was my gateway drug to vi.
00:18:11 <elliott> gateway drugs are meant to be towards worse things
00:18:24 <elliott> that's more like you kicked your meth habit to smoke weed
00:18:32 <int-e> oerjan: was it an lpmud?
00:19:22 <int-e> that ed actually produced helpful (well, sometimes) error messages :)
00:19:36 <CrazyM4n> I just realized how many gateway drugs I must have taken to get to liking esolangs
00:21:31 <|oren\> Forth, Scheme and APL are on the edge...
00:21:33 <oerjan> CrazyM4n: completely scrambled your brain, man
00:22:22 <oerjan> |oren\: hm i may have known about all those (possible another lisp instead) before starting esolanging
00:22:24 <CrazyM4n> Quick unrelated question - how do I get to emacs without a GUI (in the terminal)
00:22:35 <cluid> I don't really think so
00:22:41 <cluid> scheme seems like a completely reasonable programming language
00:22:50 <cluid> and so does forth too, but for a very specialized purpose
00:22:51 <oerjan> CrazyM4n: emacs should be a command?
00:23:06 <cluid> APL of course was used quite practically but only long ago
00:23:29 <oerjan> CrazyM4n: DISPLAY= emacs perhaps?
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00:23:49 <oerjan> (i guess elliott gave the better option)
00:24:26 <|oren\> cluid: the point is the
00:24:37 <CrazyM4n> Anyway, my gateway drug to programming was http://roblox.com/ (ofc)
00:24:49 <|oren\> "standard languages"are all ALGOL derivatives
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00:25:07 <|oren\> that is, at heart they are imperative
00:25:20 <CrazyM4n> http://i.imgur.com/GI6YACB.png Aaa what did I do
00:25:26 <cluid> scheme is an algol derivative
00:25:33 <|oren\> and they use a complex syntax
00:25:40 <cluid> that's why they call it the algolrithmic language scheme
00:25:54 <|oren\> scheme is not really, because its syntax is lisp
00:26:33 <|oren\> it might have some distant borrowings, but at heart it is functional and lispy
00:26:51 <oerjan> |oren\: i take it you prefer FORTRAN syntax then *runs and hides*
00:28:27 <|oren\> oerjan: i actually like scheme, but i like it because it is different from the other languages i know
00:28:34 <elliott> cluid: actually it's because scheme was generated by an algorithm
00:29:12 <|oren\> Phantom_Hoover: yes, but it ultimately derives from Fortran through ALGOL
00:29:31 <elliott> sussman was the name of guy l steele's computer
00:29:56 <|oren\> but most modern ALGOL derivatives derive from C it's true
00:29:58 <Phantom_Hoover> well, wp gives an algol -> cpl -> bcpl derivation anyway
00:30:20 <Phantom_Hoover> (i've been reading too much hatcher, i keep trying to parse that as an exact sequence of programming languages)
00:30:46 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: so what's the kernel of algol
00:31:40 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: that would mean that bcpl consists of precisely the parts of cpl that were orthogonal to algol
00:31:47 <elliott> (hence conjuring the spirits of the computer with our spells)
00:31:47 <Phantom_Hoover> exactness means they threw away everything from algol when they made bcpl, yes
00:34:29 <oerjan> they should have called programs spells and then lint would be a spell checker
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00:35:16 <|oren\> oerjan: from now on i will refer to programs as spells
00:35:49 <Melvar> There are at least two canons where spells are effectively programs.
00:36:33 <|oren\> Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu is one.
00:36:46 <elliott> what am I saying, yes it is
00:37:11 <oerjan> spell invocation canonically presented
00:40:43 <oerjan> hm i'm severaly mixed up there
00:41:18 <cluid> i cant decide what to work on
00:41:22 <cluid> programmign related thing..
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00:42:48 <CrazyM4n> ugh how can you remove a program that came with an install script
00:43:09 <cluid> run the installer backwards
00:47:46 <oerjan> hm someone should make a solution for clean uninstalls once and for all
00:48:06 <oerjan> (uninstalls of uncooperative software, that is)
00:48:12 <int-e> . o O ( this is why I typically install software in a dedicated subdirectory in /opt ... which I can then just remove completely.)
00:48:23 <elliott> oerjan: it's called a virtual machine :P
00:48:39 <CrazyM4n> Well, since I can't uninstall this at all
00:48:49 <HackEgo> azazel_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
00:48:50 <CrazyM4n> I'm going to install the version form the repo and hope to god that it overwrites the last one
00:49:03 <Phantom_Hoover> what's the overhead like on running every installed program on a separate vm?
00:49:15 <oerjan> elliott: that sounds very course-grained
00:49:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: depends what kind of VM, honestly
00:49:26 <lambdabot> Title: Sandboxie - Sandbox software for application isolation and secure Web browsing
00:49:29 <CrazyM4n> How do you do that? Installing programs into a specific folder
00:49:30 <elliott> (can't vouch for the security)
00:49:36 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: relcomw: not found
00:49:36 <int-e> oerjan: ah. I was wondering...
00:49:41 <Jafet> With proper paravirtualization, the computing overhead is minimal
00:49:53 <Jafet> However, there is the human overhead
00:50:06 <cluid> I use a chroot for some programs
00:50:06 <CrazyM4n> Dang, overwriting it didn't do anything
00:50:08 <HackEgo> azazel_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
00:50:10 <cluid> that only abstracts away the filesystem
00:50:16 <cluid> 'abstracts' is the wrong word..
00:50:43 <elliott> if all you care about is uninstalls you can just use linux namespace type things or even just chroots yeah
00:51:20 <int-e> hah, lunatic monster...
00:51:55 <Jafet> The revolutionary Che Root (now jailed)
00:52:00 <oerjan> `` elcomew azazel_ | rainwords
00:52:00 <HackEgo> bash: elcomew: command not found
00:52:08 <int-e> yes, we do have a lunatic monster to destroy. oh and a train that's wreaking havoc in the monastery.
00:52:14 <oerjan> `` emoclew azazel_ | rainwords
00:52:15 <HackEgo> (.ten.lad.cri no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .>/gro.sgnalose//:ptth< :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :_lezaza
00:52:45 <int-e> (my last two comments may not make sense if your name isn't oerjan.)
00:53:03 <elliott> int-e: I figured out the context pretty quickly
00:53:12 <elliott> bring back people talking about DF and homestuck in here without warning imo
00:53:25 <Melvar> Phantom_Hoover: Where’s the ‹e› come from?
00:54:58 <oerjan> int-e: bets on whether he intends to fulfil that promise
00:55:15 <oerjan> and if so, what's the catch
00:55:43 <oerjan> hm i guess he'd want the book back.
00:56:05 <Melvar> Phantom_Hoover: I say it without. Like “Groot” but with the ‹g› replaced by a ‹ch›.
00:56:24 <cluid> azazel_, what is the dumbest thing you have ever done
00:57:06 <azazel_> Locked myself out of my house
00:58:06 <azazel_> Also in code i, Made an infinite looper in my bot and it spammed a site and i didnt put anything to stop it in and i got banned ;-;
00:58:25 <int-e> oerjan: hmm, the book. where did the book end up? http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20141210 looks like a magic trick, lots of diversions and poof, the book is gone.
00:58:53 <int-e> oerjan: anyway, I think there'll be a catch that has nothing to do with the book; perhaps he'll send somebody with her.
00:59:05 <elliott> cluid: maybe it was forgetting it
00:59:10 <int-e> oerjan: and by "will" I mean "intends to"
00:59:22 <Phantom_Hoover> the other day i left the bag with all my diving stuff on a harbour somewhere
00:59:32 <int-e> oerjan: because it's not clear to me yet that the monks will cooperate in this plan :)
01:01:34 <oerjan> yeah a monk rebellion does not seem unlikely
01:01:53 <oerjan> except, he does have an army there.
01:01:56 <azazel_> I should go back to the wiki and look at some haskell stuff cuz i want to be good in it.
01:02:07 <oerjan> so probably not too overtly.
01:03:04 <int-e> oerjan: "fine distraction" ;)
01:04:08 <int-e> Anyway, the outcome is wide open. First they'll have to catch that train, and that'll be more fun if as many sparks as possible are involved. :)
01:04:57 <int-e> backstabbing, later.
01:07:48 <int-e> speaking of which, I wonder whether henkma will produce a 79 characters Collatz parity entry...
01:09:04 <oerjan> oh well i guess violetta took care of it, then. btw do you know if that monster on friday's page is a cameo from somewhere? it feels familiar.
01:09:19 <int-e> (he has three more spaces in their than I have, and only one can be attributed to a ; in my code)
01:09:55 <oerjan> well i dunno, i haven't tried that one
01:14:21 <int-e> oerjan: Oh cameo, I didn't think of that ... hmmm.
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02:10:37 <HackEgo> Categories are just a special case of bicategories.
02:10:40 <HackEgo> Bicategories are just categories where composition is only associative up to an isomorphism.
02:10:46 <shachaf> that's not very useful hth
02:14:42 <|oren\> it can't be true, i can tell that even though i know nothing about whatever this is
02:15:04 <|oren\> two things can't be special cases of each other
02:15:26 <shachaf> fortunately the bicategory entry doesn't say it's a special case of a category
02:16:12 <|oren\> it basically does? it says they are "just categories" except for some behaviour that is limited
02:16:57 <shachaf> in a category composition is really associative. in a bicategory it's only associative up to isomorphism, which is more general.
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02:25:50 <|oren\> shachaf: it looks like WP says bicategories are "weak 2-categories". if that's the case and not all categories are 2-categories, then there are categories that aren't 2-categories, and therefore aren't bi-categories
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02:37:04 <|oren\> shachaf: am i on the right track here?
02:42:14 <|oren\> ok, so it appears there are two usages of "category", on means things only with arrows between classes, and one means things with arbitrary levels of meta-arrows between arrows. in either case, there are categories that aren't 2-categories
02:44:48 <oerjan> i vaguely think categories are 1-categories
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02:50:00 <azazel_> HhOw do you keep annxiety attacks away?
03:07:26 <int-e> . o O ( don't worry )
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03:08:50 <CrazyM4n> Malbolge seems to help with anxiety and stress
03:09:57 <azazel_> And no CrazyM4n thats not helpful at all
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03:16:58 <azazel_> It says on the wiki most difficult langauge ever created
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03:20:44 <|oren\> By that logic, BASIC keeps anxiety attack away.
03:21:13 <CrazyM4n> I was thinking of other infuriating things to do
03:21:27 <CrazyM4n> And I thought of multi-platform bytecode polyglots
03:33:38 <newsham> too busy debugging to worry about anxiety attacks?
03:35:26 <azazel_> Im new to estoric stuff CrazyM4n and i have no idea what you just said
03:36:20 <CrazyM4n> Bytecode, like the stuff executables are made out of
03:36:46 <CrazyM4n> What if you hand created a .exe that works on multiple different architectures
03:37:03 <CrazyM4n> Now that'd be anxiety inducing :P
03:37:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41476&oldid=41465 * Oerjan * (-5) /* StaPLe */ Remove extra spaces
03:38:03 <oerjan> CrazyM4n: one main problem might be different magic numbers. but i don't know.
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03:40:08 <CrazyM4n> Probably, but that'd have to be changed
03:40:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41477&oldid=41472 * Oerjan * (+1) /* StaPLe */ Add one
03:41:05 <CrazyM4n> Or, you can force linux to execute it by running chmod +x afaik
03:42:05 <oerjan> um that's not what chmod +x does
03:42:27 <oerjan> or rather, it _never_ executes it if it's not, so it has nothing to do with the format
03:43:23 <CrazyM4n> Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that it'll execute it anyway
03:43:37 <oerjan> something like this has been discussed here before. iirc DOS .com files have no magic number
03:43:49 <CrazyM4n> And people write .com files by hand, don't they?
03:44:00 <pikhq> CrazyM4n: Not often, but some people do, sure.
03:44:15 <pikhq> A .com file has no magic number and no real structure.
03:45:04 <int-e> "programmer defined structure"
03:46:33 <oerjan> i expect windows may get away with it because it cares about file extensions for executables, unlike linux
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03:47:18 <CrazyM4n> Oh yeah, com files were just instructions
03:49:01 <oerjan> `` echo fnord >test; chmod +x test; ./test
03:49:04 <pikhq> oerjan: Also, all *other* executable file formats actually have magic numbers on Windows.
03:49:07 <CrazyM4n> So, I was gonna prove a point about every file on linux being maybe runnable
03:49:15 <HackEgo> ./test: line 1: fnord: command not found
03:49:17 <CrazyM4n> So I tried chmod +x'ing a .png
03:49:28 <CrazyM4n> http://i.imgur.com/gqk8OIt.png I almost want to know what that bottom error means
03:49:46 <oerjan> CrazyM4n: the shell tries to run it as a shell script.
03:49:51 <int-e> shiny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_binary#Combined_COM-style_binaries_for_CP.2FM-80_and_DOS
03:49:53 <pikhq> Oh, that's pretty normal weirdness.
03:50:04 <oerjan> but iirc that doesn't work if it isn't run from a shell
03:50:08 <pikhq> oerjan: Actually, it's the libc.
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03:52:03 <pikhq> Basically, all the exec functions but execve run a program in the shell if they don't parse as normal executables.
03:52:12 <oerjan> CrazyM4n: i think you got some zalgo in your png hth
03:53:18 <CrazyM4n> http://i.imgur.com/SWem1kZ.png S͉̜͓͉̳͕o̝͕̣̼͔ ̧͍̘̤̘ͅmu̖͇̳̤̤c͚̜̦̩͚̭̖h͙ ̝͈͈̟̬͖̬z̳͜a̛l͇͉͍͔̥̖̳g̮̤̙̤ͅǫ͖͍
03:53:43 <oerjan> pikhq: at least that means there is a test for "normal executable" that may fail.
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03:57:15 <pikhq> Yes. The kernel checks for an ELF header, the a.out header (if enabled), the #!, and any registered alternate binary formats.
03:57:33 <pikhq> And returns an error otherwise.
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04:13:50 <azazel_> Eye sea watt yew did their
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04:24:19 * pikhq loves that the kernel has alternate binary format support, FWIW
04:25:47 <int-e> it has sooo many switches to disable.
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04:36:12 <Sgeo> https://www.reddit.com/r/geek/comments/2pcyy0/letters_by_computer/
04:39:27 <GeekDude> I have my client to notify me whenever someone says "geek"
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04:52:38 <CrazyM4n> You know I'm just gonna follow you around random channels and mention the word geek, now, GeekDude
04:53:06 <GeekDude> I already get so many hilights from people mentioning geek squad in various help channels
04:54:04 <CrazyM4n> OH CRAP KSP BETA RELEASED TODAY
04:54:27 <GeekDude> oh, also, I got my robots to do a new interesting thing
04:55:52 <CrazyM4n> Gosh you can't just leave me hanging
04:56:44 <GeekDude> Basically, I'm in the process of rewriting a very old piece of software
04:56:54 <GeekDude> Said software was written for *shocker* Windows 98
04:57:36 <GeekDude> Said software allows you to drive your little yellow LEGO Mindstorms RCX robot around remotely, with a webcam feed
04:58:05 <GeekDude> I've got a php script that allows me to control the bot
04:58:27 <GeekDude> so now I've just gotta figure out webcam stuff, and I'm golden
04:59:10 <GeekDude> I can click a button on my website and make the robot move
04:59:22 <GeekDude> I've got sliders for speed and duration
05:00:00 <GeekDude> so far the website looks like this https://db.tt/GcRRnQTx
05:00:15 <GeekDude> The image on the left will be a feed from on the robot, the image on the right will be from overhead
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05:01:00 <GeekDude> http://www.brickvista.com/features/redRover/redRover.html
05:02:01 <CrazyM4n> Are you disassembling it? Or intercepting the signals? Or what?
05:02:48 <GeekDude> Careful study of existing reverse-engineered protocol specs
05:03:01 <GeekDude> http://www.mralligator.com/rcx/
05:04:20 <GeekDude> As far as I know, we're the last people actually using red rover
05:04:48 <CrazyM4n> "we're"? Is this for some sort of research project or something?
05:05:17 <GeekDude> I have a long backstory if you wanna hear it
05:06:35 <GeekDude> So, in 2010 I joined a "FIRST LEGO League" robotics team. The idea is that you build robots out of LEGO Mindstorms sets that do a certain set of tasks
05:07:16 <GeekDude> through this, I met our (now sadly deceased) local LEGO fanatic
05:07:44 <GeekDude> Before her passing, however, I became one of her biggest assistants
05:08:14 <GeekDude> One of the things that she did was run the Red Rover on our local college website
05:08:39 <GeekDude> However, we eventually lost funding and it was moved to one of my friends house
05:09:49 <GeekDude> Since then, the original owner of the Red Rover setup has passed, as I mentioned above
05:11:43 <CrazyM4n> I'd assume that model isn't really supported by anything anymore?
05:11:54 <GeekDude> So now my friend and I are the official caretakers of the red rover
05:12:32 <GeekDude> Interestingly enough, there are drivers for it included in the linux kernel
05:12:51 <CrazyM4n> Specifically for it? Or just generic ones that work with it?
05:13:09 <CrazyM4n> Also, that story was actually pretty depressing
05:13:29 <CrazyM4n> So can't you just use those? Or look at their source, at least
05:14:20 <GeekDude> The drivers just let you control the "IR Tower", but the actual information you send is up to yo
05:16:40 <GeekDude> Anyways, seeing as windows 98 desktop is a relatively bad platform for a webserver, I figured it needed an overhaul of some kind
05:16:59 <GeekDude> And since I actually have a bit of experience in web development, I figured I'd give it a go
05:18:49 <CrazyM4n> Seems like quite a nice project
05:20:24 <GeekDude> Seems like a very esoteric project to me
05:20:50 <GeekDude> I'm also reminded of this XKCD https://xkcd.com/1095/
05:22:40 <CrazyM4n> Now we just need a group of one or two people focused on hacking the motors in it.
05:23:55 <GeekDude> well, the motors are pretty simple
05:24:08 <GeekDude> They're literally just simple DC motors
05:25:22 <GeekDude> J_Arcane_: It won't let me connect
05:25:29 <CrazyM4n> Ooo, I was just browsing the internet and found http://countercomplex.blogspot.com/2011/10/algorithmic-symphonies-from-one-line-of.html
05:25:46 <CrazyM4n> I love stuff like this, creative coding-esq things
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07:03:14 <fizzie> The acoustics lab people had built a shout detector as a gift for a recent graduate, since one of his thesis papers was about shout detection.
07:03:17 <fizzie> It was built around an old army helmet (so that it's "robust"), and included a ring of LEDs around the rim. They lit up green when the wearer spoke, and red when he shouted, and there was also a loudspeaker that played out random samples from the shout corpus they had recorded for the paper when he shouted especially loudly.
07:03:22 <fizzie> All driven by a Raspberry Pi. We (a different research group in the same department) have a tradition of having some kind of a pun or a joke in the group gift, too, but that was a bit more elaborate than the norm.
07:08:05 <fizzie> They also presented him with a "triploma". See, around here you get a diploma when you finish your master's degree, so it makes sense the doctoral degree includes a triploma. (I'm not sure when you get the monoploma.)
07:09:32 <Taneb> Bachelor's degree?
07:10:42 <fizzie> Probably something like that.
07:10:53 <fizzie> We didn't used to have separate bachelor's degrees.
07:13:04 <shachaf> in hebrew a bachelor's degree is called a "first degree" and a master's degree is called a "second degree"
07:13:18 <shachaf> so this triploma thing seems reasonable
07:13:19 <Taneb> My course at uni isn't separate but I think most in the UK are
07:13:30 <Taneb> Anyway I am off now to get dinner
07:14:24 <fizzie> These days they've "harmonized" things here to include a mandatory distinct bachelor's degree step here too.
07:14:37 <fizzie> Bah, fcolor has broken down again.
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08:24:28 <Sgeo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZXW_8lHx-E
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10:47:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41478&oldid=40775 * 195.74.132.98 * (+41) /* General Ideas */ fertilisation
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10:55:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41479&oldid=41478 * 195.74.132.98 * (+68) /* Based on dimensions */
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11:31:42 <J_Arcane_> http://wcook.blogspot.fi/2012/07/day-functional-programming-changed.html
11:34:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Ragaraja]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41480&oldid=33418 * Mauriceling * (+91)
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13:15:21 <int-e> is there something like pangrams based on pairs of letters?
13:16:51 <int-e> I guess what I'm after is a text fragment in which every letter pair that appears in dictionary words (to be defined...) actually appears.
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14:04:00 <int-e> I stumbled on this little game, where one gets to kern some words manually. http://type.method.ac/
14:04:19 <int-e> The Internet is a strange place. :)
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14:10:02 <S1> I don't get this game
14:10:02 <fizzie> int-e: "Diphonetically complete."
14:10:05 <fizzie> (Not a real term, I just made it up, and anyhow you wanted graphemes instead of phonemes.)
14:10:09 <S1> What does to kern actually mean?
14:10:50 <oerjan> researchers are allowed to make up terms, it's their job
14:10:57 <S1> Oh now I get it
14:10:59 <fizzie> Also ITYM "one gets to kem some words" hth
14:13:47 <int-e> S1: kerning basically means to adjust the spaces between letters of a word (to make it look evenly spaced to the human eye). This may involve things like moving an e following a T a bit below the T.
14:13:58 <int-e> (disclaimer: I'm not a typographer)
14:14:23 <oerjan> don't listen to int-e he's an accomplished font designer
14:14:30 <S1> Yes I got it. Got 66 out of 100 points
14:14:37 <int-e> fizzie: I don't know what "kem" means, so definitely no.
14:15:34 <elliott> http://www.ironicsans.com/2008/02/idea_a_new_typography_term.html
14:16:00 <elliott> google messes with the kerning if you search for "kerning" or "keming"
14:16:21 <int-e> that does make sense actually.
14:17:10 <int-e> I had 77/100, and I completely failed one of them. Not too impressive.
14:19:11 <paul2520> 59/100. I should try again not on a tablet
14:19:23 <fizzie> elliott: I think I knew that.
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14:22:59 <fizzie> Ooh, I got a 100/100 for one. (It's also a bit clunky on this tablet.)
14:23:05 <int-e> elliott: I'm a bit disappointed though that the merchandise is not using an overlap of an r with an n...
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14:24:59 <oerjan> why isn't the pronunciation guide for that link in ipa :(
14:27:51 <fizzie> 83/100 as the final score.
14:28:50 <oerjan> not using ipa these days is the dictionary version of not using unicode. who's with me?
14:29:34 * oerjan prepares to swat those against. except shachaf.
14:30:50 <fizzie> oerjan: In that it's still inexplicably popular not to go IPA/Unicode?
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14:31:58 <oerjan> fizzie: something like that.
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14:33:03 <fizzie> E.g. I think Merriam-Webster is anti-IPA.
14:33:08 * oerjan dislikes it whenever he searches for the ipa pronunciation of a word and it doesn't show up in the search excerpt of any of the hits
14:33:44 <oerjan> fizzie: yes. i used to look at them anyway because they're otherwise pretty consistent but last i tried they've managed to make the _pronunciation guide_ unfindable.
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14:34:49 <oerjan> iirc their argument is that english pronunciation varies too much by dialect, which i guess isn't entirely unreasonable.
14:35:14 <elliott> I do better with the OED's system
14:35:24 <fizzie> "This pronunciation respelling key (prə-nun-see-ay-shən ree-spel-ing kee) is used in some Wikipedia articles to spell out the pronunciations of English words. It does not use special symbols or diacritics apart from the schwa, "ə", which is used (for example) for the a in about."
14:36:28 <elliott> maybe I don't mean the OED proper
14:36:39 <oerjan> fizzie: is that managing not to mark the stress tdnh
14:37:22 <fizzie> oerjan: Yes, even though it has a notation for it.
14:37:53 <fizzie> Copy-paste obliterated the small caps.
14:38:04 <fizzie> It was there in the original.
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14:38:48 <elliott> I prefer systems like that for general use, they're more accessible IMO
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14:38:54 <elliott> I doubt I will ever learn IPA
14:40:27 <fizzie> Well, they do vaguely suggest having both.
14:41:25 <oerjan> just make a template that constructs both should be easy
14:42:56 <oerjan> (the great thing about being known for joking all the time is that you sometimes don't have to decide whether you're joking or not.)
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15:38:19 <oren> that was the hardest easy exam i've ever written. it is web programming, plus i was already familiar with php and javascript, and on top of it, it is an open book exam. However, that doesn't mean that it is easy to write PHP and JS with a frikkin PEN for an hour and a half!
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15:38:46 <oren> Why can't e at least use typewriters?
15:39:20 <oerjan> just write in blackletter, that'll show them
15:40:25 <oren> i wrote in my standard chicken-scratch scrawl
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18:12:38 <oren> the modern latin alphabet is stupid. this whole time i thought they were hom clauses
18:13:04 <oren> when they were *horn clauses
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18:16:08 <cluid> the joy of fractur
18:16:39 <oren> yes that is what led me to this realization. i set firefox to fractur
18:18:09 <Phantom_Hoover> careful there, the nazis might come after you for that
18:19:34 <oren> actually any monospace font would help. the problem is that rn is indistinguishable from m in proportional sans fonts
18:20:00 <cluid> isn't that a kerning thing?
18:20:17 <coppro> it's not true of all fonts
18:22:17 <elliott> https://i.imgur.com/zpd4XvF.png why would anyone need fraktur? normal text is perfectly readable
18:22:50 <quintopia> fraktur still looks cool even if unnecessary
18:23:45 <oren> well, most fonts then. it is certainly the case in FreeMono
18:24:02 <oren> elliott: is that zapfino?
18:24:25 <cluid> haha ist hat zapfino
18:24:45 <quintopia> "Can someone give an example of the steepest descent that is not a gradient descent?" I could have sworn steepest descent was a specific type of gradient descent. isn't this question just wrong?
18:24:56 <cluid> http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/041/a/2/zapfino_phoenix_by_Nino2303.jpg my IRC client loks like this
18:26:06 <elliott> https://i.imgur.com/cyigKDn.png this is getting worryingly tolerable
18:26:09 <elliott> what if I actually use this
18:26:24 <elliott> everyone is so elegant now
18:27:38 <elliott> it's a shame the ridiculous ligatures don't work
18:27:44 <elliott> someone make a terminal that can display those please
18:28:38 <oren> it is also a shame zapfino doesn't have <> chars
18:29:05 <oren> those look like fallbacks to me
18:29:54 <oren> they look too small. + also
18:30:51 <oren> why the hell do different fonts, on the same point size, have completely different sizes?
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18:34:19 <oren> i want a terminal that rescales each character to fit in a box
18:40:57 <quintopia> have you tried zooming in until a single character is bigger than your monitor. if you can't do that, then you already have such a terminal.
18:42:07 <oren> i am getting used to { being ck, [ being ch, } being st and ] being tz. $ is a normal s.
18:42:38 <coppro> elliott: that is disturbingly tolerable
18:42:51 <coppro> ... I wish I was usingn an easier-to-configure terminal emulator
18:43:51 <oren> use xfce-terminal
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18:46:37 <oren> http://ctrlv.in/474692 <-- see? if(c==27)ck c=ALT|getch(); st
18:48:15 <Melvar> oren: Why are you using such a broken font?
18:49:04 <Phantom_Hoover> why is torbrowser not working when i try to search things on torrentz
18:49:16 <oren> Melvar: it is fun to mess people up. someone looking over your shoulder is like What...the..fuck.
18:50:59 <oren> besides, it works fine if you have good syntax highlighting.
18:52:25 <Melvar> What does it make of a *real* ‘ſ’?
18:52:47 <oren> fallback to sans mono
18:55:25 <oren> Or it might be ubuntu mono. http://ctrlv.in/474697
18:55:57 <oren> but you are like:
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18:59:49 <oren> Bell is a bad ISP
19:01:20 <oren> and nmcli doesn't work well
19:02:27 <oren> combine the two, it means i have to logout and login in order to switch wireless nets
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20:41:27 <oren> so i got fed up with the lack of profiles in xfce-terminal.
20:41:39 <oren> gnome-terminal ftw
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21:26:12 * |oren\ s Haxorus used Guillotine!
21:26:32 <|oren\> and that is how i lost a friend
21:30:23 <|oren\> back then there was no Fairy remember.
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21:49:24 * FireFly looks up the song in the background of that screenshot
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21:53:37 <fizzie> "f7ioe.c:31:: uavning: iuplicit oeclavation of function ftvuope Q-Dinplicit-fu"
21:53:47 <fizzie> ctrlv's OCR is not so happy about the font choice.
21:56:09 <fizzie> "f7ibe.c:13:6: uavning: unufeb paviable y Q-vunufeb-oaviableg"
21:57:14 <fizzie> 13:47 lelpav oven: why ave you ufing fuch a bvoten font
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22:00:02 <|oren\> coppvo ... 3 with 3 waf ufingn an eafiev-toconfiguve tevninal enulatov
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22:05:07 <oven> it is much more hilarious if you read it out loud
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22:08:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Xbony2 * New user account
22:09:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Xbony2]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41481 * Xbony2 * (+143) Created page with "I'm xbony2. Hi. View my Github [https://github.com/xbony2 here], I mostly make minecraft mods, but play around with other things too sometimes."
22:11:09 <oven> It appears cursive is just as bad : http://ctrlv.in/474781 <-- manning: compauloon eetween oioned and unaioned Lnteoeu expneooiono
22:12:18 <oven> what would it do for zapfino? Elliot?
22:13:21 <elliott> you have my screenshots, you can upload them to check if you want :p
22:14:09 <oven> for some reason i can't get it to take the image.
22:14:21 <elliott> probably too big or something?
22:14:27 <oven> it says "that type of image is not supported"
22:15:38 <oven> #define oioned signed
22:15:47 <elliott> the nice thing about transparent terminals is that you can carefully arrange what people can squint nosily at behind them
22:16:23 <oven> well, mostly it is whatever i hppened to be listening too
22:17:57 <elliott> yeah same. well here is me just running vi for no reason http://ctrlv.in/474785
22:17:58 <oven> i use youtube as a music player a lot of the time, (except when i need the internet bandwidth for something else)
22:20:03 <oven> elliott: the incongruousness (yay i can spell) of that screenshot is awsome
22:21:55 <elliott> http://ctrlv.in/474788 im JUST using my conmputer
22:22:58 <elliott> the best part of creating that screenshot was that installing emacs on my server also installed systemd
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22:24:01 <elliott> the other greatest part was the youtube recommendations. have you ever wanted to listen to a nightcore remix of late 90s eurodance hit blue by eiffel 65 for ten hours? well,
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22:36:00 <oven> i have listened to ten-hour videos, but not the kind that are ten hours of the same thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIBou1U-Sq0 <-- I have listened to this several times
22:36:20 <oven> 12 hours of the 90's eurodisco
22:36:53 <elliott> it's not a real ten hour video if it contains ten hours of actual content
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22:37:43 <elliott> I'm kind of worried my server wouldn't reboot if I tried. it hasn't been rebooted in almost a year. I bet that kernel has so many holes in it
22:38:12 <elliott> it has systemd and stuff now I guess if I tried to reboot it. a new era
22:38:50 <oven> one of my dad's servers hasn't been rebooted since 2003.
22:39:15 <oven> it runs AIX which i'm pretty sure doesn't even existanymore
22:40:12 <elliott> not running into a single kernel bug bad enough to need a reboot in that time is impressive
22:41:01 <elliott> also not having any important security updates for the kernel, though I guess that would require anyone to care about AIX
22:41:05 <oven> it runs a system for topologists to announce conferences. it was hacked together in the early 1990's in Perl 4 by my dad
22:42:36 <oven> it doesn't run updates or any of that. it still runs perl 4
22:43:09 <oerjan> AIX is IBM, ergo it will never stop existing hth
22:43:48 <oven> the other server runs linux kernel 2.0 or something like that
22:44:04 <oven> that is the backup
22:56:09 <fizzie> The 'p's on the reverse-video Emacs menu bar seem to have been slightly problematic too.
22:56:20 <fizzie> "Ootions" "LisoInteraction" "Helo"
22:57:27 <elliott> it also didnt recognise the Nightcore - Gangnam Style 10 hours at all
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