00:07:07 Fascinating. 00:07:42 Kinda want toplay minesweeper now. 00:08:01 ...And lookfor ways to cheat. 00:13:27 the most infamous is the Dreamboard 00:13:52 Windows 3.1 Minesweeper has only a limited number of possible boards 00:14:00 that one is the easiest, and many players memorized it 00:14:14 and there's huge debate about whether Dreamboard records count 00:14:30 the problem being a) did they just reset until they got the Dreamboard; b) did they recognise it after a couple of moves 00:18:23 Hmm. Seems like arguing that trying to go forthe record invalidates the attempt. 00:18:25 and which of those count 00:18:50 here it is, btw: http://www.minesweeper.info/wiki/images/b/b3/Dreamboard-10-MattMcGinley-270601.jpg 00:20:05 The dreams of it is not immediately obvious to me. 00:20:17 Haven't played in years. 00:20:45 Edge bombs? 00:20:53 I mean, more of them? 00:21:00 basically it's that all the mines are concentrated together, and you have islands of wide open areas, and islands of miens 00:21:02 *mines 00:21:09 meaning that solving the level requires fewer clicks than normal 00:21:21 which is obviously desirable for a world record, especially if you have the layout memorized 00:22:32 Ah. They're looking to just clear the negative space as quickly as possible, ratherthan pinpointing bombms. 00:22:38 yep 00:22:42 because that's the win condition 00:23:23 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:23:29 I see it now. Near three vast expances. 00:23:40 *exspances. 00:24:02 nope, Idk how to expand on my spelling of 'expand'. 00:25:04 "expanses" is the correct spelling, I think 00:25:14 at least, my spellchecker likes it 00:25:29 ex-pants 00:30:48 Thanks. The spellcheck underline things is near invisible in HexChat. 00:30:52 Minesweeper is np-complete, right? or was it pspace-complete? 00:31:00 np complete. 00:31:18 I remember that vaguely. 00:31:34 np-complete? 00:31:36 what? 00:32:01 I was just thinking if I was misremembering if it was turing complete or np complete. 00:32:10 it can't be TC, it's only finitely large 00:32:24 ah right, it can't be above NP because all moves are irreversible 00:32:49 Instantly evident to those who are not me. :) 00:32:49 meaning that the number of moves is polynomial-time 00:32:57 or, put it this way 00:33:56 if you have a potential solution to a Minesweeper board 00:34:13 you can check whether it's genuine simply by counting the number of mines around each number 00:34:29 that means that minesweeper is at most NP 00:34:48 proving that it's actually NP-complete is harder, ofc 00:35:29 dulla: "NP-complete" is a little awkward to define, but intuitively, it means that given any puzzle for which a solution can be checked for correctness in polynomial time, there's some Minesweeper board that's equivalent to that puzzle 00:35:33 I think it was proof by equating it to an already established np complete problem. 00:35:54 NP-completeness and PSPACE-completeness are two common ways to translate the notion of Turing-completeness down to finite programs 00:36:02 That's even more vaguely remembered. I'm gonna look it up. 00:39:44 Reduced from 3SAT, apparently. 00:40:22 -!- boily has joined. 00:40:24 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 00:42:58 people always use 3SAT, or nearly so 00:43:24 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:43:27 although when I proved the generalized RNG-reversing problem NP-complete, I used the subset sum problem 00:43:39 *LCRNG-reversing 00:44:32 they should use planar 3-coloring more 00:44:41 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 00:46:04 it doesn't translate too well to different genres of problem, I guess 00:46:26 same reason that we show languages TC by implementing BCT or Brainfuck or Fractran, rather than INTERCAL 00:47:48 I'm working on lengthening the esointerpreter chain a bit, and that fact is really annoying. 00:48:13 maybe I should work more on underlambda 00:48:27 which might make esointerpreters obsolete, at least for the TC languages 00:48:42 Nearly got a kipple to MNNBFSL interpreter, but behind kipple it's OOP ork. 00:56:43 is it just me, or is Pig a really awful language? 00:58:42 [wiki] [[Befunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41929&oldid=41916 * 203.99.128.1 * (+43) /* Instructions */ 00:59:48 [wiki] [[Befunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41930&oldid=41929 * 203.99.128.1 * (+16) /* Instructions */ 01:01:46 [wiki] [[Befunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41931&oldid=41930 * 203.99.128.1 * (+122) /* Instructions */ 01:02:12 [wiki] [[Befunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41932&oldid=41931 * Ais523 * (-5) /* Instructions */ fix typo 01:04:33 [wiki] [[Befunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41933&oldid=41932 * 203.99.128.1 * (+71) /* Instructions */ 01:08:56 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:09:23 -!- Lymia has joined. 01:19:48 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:20:34 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 01:26:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:50:20 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 02:08:58 -!- adu has joined. 02:25:07 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:26:51 -!- dianne has joined. 02:33:46 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ACROBATIC CHICKEN). 02:46:47 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 02:48:33 b_jonas: now I'm curious as to what your solution to "utf8 to unicode" on anagolf was 02:48:43 *echm* 02:48:43 it ran faster than mine, so maybe it's not loading libraries? 02:48:43 id 02:49:10 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:49:45 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 02:50:41 the annoying thing there is that it would be trivial to write if only we could set command-line options, but we can't (the #!perl trick doesn't work for Unicodiness) 02:55:34 -!- Zefphex has joined. 03:02:43 Mmm 03:16:07 Ooh, I should create an "esoteric programming language" that's just an NP-complete problem. 03:16:40 I should delete the internet 03:19:06 that might be difficult, and a huge amount of valuable information would be lost 03:19:09 I'd recommend against it 03:21:03 DDOS the internets biggest servers 03:21:15 And saturate them so they can't defend? 03:21:21 Would that do it 03:21:27 DDOSing works less well on large servers than small servers 03:21:36 for reasons that should be obvious if you think about it 03:21:43 Makes a DDOS machine 03:21:52 And the owners of some of them tend to have huge budgets. 03:22:06 ddos's from the moon 03:22:18 have you any idea how little bandwidth there is on the Moon? 03:22:30 Very little 03:22:31 For instance, I imagine if your DDOS was enough of a threat Google could actually afford a gun DOS on your DDOS operation. 03:22:56 what's a gun dos again 03:23:01 (there is a communications satellite network around Mars, though; I don't know how much bandwidth it has for connecting with Earth) 03:23:04 That's where they shoot you. 03:23:10 Meh 03:23:19 comes back as a ghost 03:23:43 I don't think Google would need assassinations to stop a DDOS 03:23:48 now to haunt Google servers with large ammounts of lag 03:23:48 but the right way to think about it is 03:24:04 No, but if that's what it would take *they probably could*. 03:24:08 Google gets a huge number of Internet connections /anyway/ 03:24:19 Google would just reroute the internet around your attack 03:24:20 or, take Facebook 03:24:24 But yes, Google is practically running under a massive DDOS anyways. 03:24:38 it's getting hammered by a large proportion of human Internet users at any given time 03:24:38 Can't I just burn the buildings holding Google servers down 03:24:40 What most sites call "a DDOS" Google calls "Tuesday". 03:24:48 They do own a killer robot company now, so they could plausibly assassinate you if they wanted to 03:24:59 lol well 03:25:13 How would you go about ddosing the internet 03:25:16 in theory 03:25:18 I wouldn't 03:25:34 10^10^100 packets p/sec 03:26:04 I don't think there's enough electrons for that. 03:26:56 technically you could use the same electrons for each packet 03:27:00 The root zone servers don't actually see much traffic due to caching, right? 03:27:04 and just shove them through the wires really fast 03:27:17 faster than light 03:27:17 Sgeo: yep, pretty much everyone knows where, say, the .com servers are anyway 03:27:22 so they don't have to ask 03:27:37 .onion 03:27:38 they're probably seeing a bit more traffic now with all the weird suffixes ICANN opened up in their recent cash grab 03:27:39 But on the other hand, DDOSing them might not be helpful for the same exact reason 03:27:41 but probably not that much 03:27:51 DDOS .com nses? 03:27:53 And the root zone servers are actually done pretty bizarrely as well... 03:28:09 Several hosts that share IP addresses, relying on how DNS is stateless. 03:28:51 There's gotta be a theoretical maximum to how much information you can send through a wire. 03:29:12 There's nominally only, like, 6 root zone servers, but there's a few dozen servers that actually host the root zone. 03:29:53 more than 6 03:29:58 Ah, 13. 03:30:02 they're named after letters of the alphabet, so it has to be 26 or less 03:30:09 but I'm pretty sure there's more than 6 03:30:12 China is apparently ddosing Canada atm 03:30:21 There's 13. 03:30:23 no, the Internet doesn't work like that 03:30:41 what you mean is that some people in China are attempting to DDOS various targets within Canada, presumably with varying levels of success 03:30:46 It may be possible for a country to totally disconnect another country 03:30:50 And all but 3 of them are nominally located in the US. 03:30:53 -!- skj3gg has joined. 03:30:54 Google could possibly DDOS an entire country 03:30:58 I think China could pull the plug on NK? 03:30:59 ye 03:31:02 But that's not DDOS 03:31:10 * Zefphex pets sgeo 03:31:14 thanks 03:31:32 Internet warfare would be scary 03:31:40 But safer maybe 03:31:43 No wait 03:31:53 Zefphex: some country accidentally blocked YouTube for much of the Internet 03:31:57 Sgeo: I assume there are internet connections directly between north korea and south korea 03:31:57 Again not a DDOS 03:31:58 although I'm not sure 03:32:02 Sgeo: that was a DNS blackholing 03:32:22 you claim to offer a shorter path to the site people are looking for, then discard the traffic 03:32:22 Conclusion: The best way to attack the Internet is probably not DDOS 03:32:34 Nuke Google HQ 03:32:43 that only works because of other ASes trusting your routes, though 03:32:45 ais523: Probably, but it's also probably a pretty lightweight link. 03:32:54 if you do that sort of thing too often, they stop trusting them 03:32:59 Nuke the underwater cables! 03:33:14 also, I'd like to point out that the entire original purpose of the Internet was to survive nuclear attack 03:33:35 Does splitting in two temporarily count as surviving? 03:33:57 yes 03:34:10 but even then it's connected enough that splitting it in two is unlikely 03:34:49 If a big country internet usage wise say Europe would take on US servers who would win? 03:35:17 Also who wants to buy a copy of cs6 03:35:42 it's not like a country magically owns all the internet connections inside it 03:35:56 also europe isn't a country 03:36:01 Hard to say. It's not entirely meaningful to even speak of "a country's servers" really... Things are sufficiently international these days that damage to most any country, hurts most all countries. 03:36:36 Can we just all vote 03:36:43 For instance, if China goes down the US is *hosed*. 03:36:44 to destroy humanity 03:36:58 Like just destroy it all 03:37:12 Its a big fuck up for nature to have made humans 03:37:40 http://www.vhemt.org/ ? 03:37:41 All humans have a large potential to be evil and destroy 03:38:07 (Note: My linking does not imply that I endorse the views expressed therein) 03:38:17 Some painless way of vaporising every human on earth 03:39:55 Like... antimater? 03:41:26 I'm down for dat 03:41:50 lets all mate with our anti-selves 03:45:00 this is getting increasingly offtopic 03:45:03 also really depressing 03:45:19 it'd be completely out of line for me to kick you, as you haven't really done anything wrong 03:45:24 but I'm tired and irritable right now 03:47:34 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 03:49:15 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: .). 03:50:31 -!- skj3gg has joined. 03:52:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:52:50 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 03:57:40 -!- zemhill__ has joined. 03:58:28 hi zemhill_ 03:58:54 -!- skj3gg has joined. 04:00:26 [wiki] [[SickPig]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41934 * 122.37.11.94 * (+490) Created page with "SickPig is similar to the language [[Pig]], but it simulates a pig that is sick. ==Usage== SickPig follows the same syntax rules as [[Pig]]. You write the name of the text fil..." 04:00:36 -!- zemhill_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:00:51 nah 04:01:12 [wiki] [[SickPig]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41935&oldid=41934 * 122.37.11.94 * (+7) 04:01:23 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 04:02:21 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41936&oldid=41927 * 122.37.11.94 * (-10) 04:03:38 [wiki] [[Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41937&oldid=41924 * 122.37.11.94 * (+59) 04:05:55 -!- zemhill___ has joined. 04:10:21 -!- zemhill__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:11:20 "For example, imagine that a north-south–oriented ice skater, in orbit over the equator of a black hole and rotationally at rest with respect to the stars, extends her arms." 04:12:44 -!- skj3gg has joined. 04:13:11 this is north and south with respect to the poles of the black hole? 04:13:16 how does she figure out where they are? 04:13:59 Zefphex: "ddos's from the moon" is almost literally the plot of a book i'm trying to write 04:14:30 Is actually a phsycic 04:15:18 i hear the moon is a harsh mistress has already been written hth 04:16:53 ais523: maybe it's a kerr newman black hole and she has a magnemometer? 04:19:42 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 04:19:44 oerjan: i thought they just threw rocks in that book 04:20:08 yes, and how could _your_ version not be lame in comparison, i'm saying 04:20:34 Huh, black holes can possess angular momentum. 04:20:40 also charge 04:22:00 [wiki] [[Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41938&oldid=41937 * 122.37.11.94 * (+0) 04:22:15 is there a real word for a magnemometer? 04:22:44 depends what it means 04:23:19 something that measures strength and direction of th magnetic field 04:24:01 in that case merely replace the second m by a t hth 04:24:03 -!- skj3gg has joined. 04:24:11 oh. 04:24:48 greek: fiendish, logical, or both? 04:25:13 lately i;ve been having a problem with my laptop screen where it starts going white, until I hit it. 04:25:58 you need to respect that your laptop has a different color identity. 04:26:37 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 04:28:21 I think there's a connector loose inside, otherwise how would hitting it help? 04:30:32 [wiki] [[DeadPig]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41939 * 122.37.11.94 * (+394) Created page with "DeadPig is a version of the language [[Pig]], where the pig has obviously died. ==Usage== DeadPig uses the same syntax rules as [[Pig]], where you write the title of the text ..." 04:30:37 Go get it fixed 04:30:48 Its has a display problem 04:30:54 -!- skj3gg has joined. 04:30:56 Did you drop it somewhere 04:31:53 [wiki] [[Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41940&oldid=41938 * 122.37.11.94 * (+58) 04:35:31 -!- Zefphex has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:36:14 Zefphex: Not that I know of. It's not worth fixing, given that the machine cost CA$200. I'll just buy a new one if this happens too often. 04:39:25 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 04:39:59 -!- skj3gg has joined. 04:40:19 at this rate we're going to need Category:حَرَام 04:44:35 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 04:45:59 -!- skj3gg has joined. 04:48:19 11 hours of thirst coming up :( 04:49:05 And a medical procedure 04:49:27 waterectomy 04:49:39 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 04:52:31 Can I just sleep through thirst? 04:52:53 depends how tired you are 04:53:09 Not tired at all, I slept through do-not-need-to-deprive-myself-of-food-and-water time 04:53:46 did you wake up just when it was too late to eat and drink tdnh 04:53:54 I manage 11 hours without water frequently, even when awake 04:54:11 the only place to get bottles of water at 4:54 AM charges £1.40 for them, which is really excessive 04:54:15 No, and drinking water right now during the 6 minutes I have left 04:54:47 if i don't drink before going to bed i tend to have chaffed lips when i awake 04:54:58 I'm scared of sedation 04:55:50 ais523: birmingham doesn't have drinkable tap water? 04:55:57 And of having a tube stuck down my throat 04:56:01 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:56:17 oerjan: it has excellent tap water, but the problem is finding a mains-connected tap and a container to drink from 04:56:36 dammit spilled coke on my sweater 04:56:52 * Sgeo tends to buy bottles of water just for the container 04:57:01 At work I buy one a week, not sure if that''s particularly unsanitary 04:57:06 also t-shirt but that was going into the laundry soon anyway 04:57:07 Is it an invasive prodecure? 04:57:18 Then again, I may not be the best person to ask for advice on sane behavior 04:57:26 MDream: are endoscopys considered invasive? 04:57:34 It's a tube down my throat but I'm not being cut open 04:57:56 I dunno. 04:58:31 I got an MRI once, though, and it turns out I didn't actually need to be sedated since I was good at laying still on my own anyway. 04:58:50 ais523: so birmingham has a tap shortage? 04:58:55 I of course found this out after going several hours without eating. 04:59:08 Wait, not eating is for sedation? 04:59:17 oerjan: well taps tend to be confined to residential houses and food preparation areas 04:59:19 I thought it was to not vomit while there's a tube in my throat 04:59:22 i simply cannot imagine anywhere in norway where it's further to a tap than to a shop 04:59:25 But I would imagine they don't want to risk you gagging on the endoscoping camera. 04:59:33 and toilets, which are plentiful, but which I don't really want to drink from 05:00:32 Possibly that too, but also so the sedatives don't make you release an absolutely gigantic bowel movement as easily. 05:01:49 ok i guess _inside_ a shopping center. 05:01:52 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 05:02:14 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Client Quit). 05:02:22 Quassel seriously hits a nerve sometimes 05:02:27 * oerjan guesses he has no idea where ais523 spends his days 05:02:53 I would like to carry cleaning equipment with me to areas with water fountains. 05:03:26 oerjan: oh, the shops aren't open at 5am 05:03:40 the massively overpriced water comes from a small vending machine about 10m from here 05:03:43 Because there is one gym I'd visit every few years for some reason or another. 05:04:08 when the shops are open, I can by a 2 litre bottle of sparkling or still water for 50p, which is much better value 05:04:11 And there was a water fountain that has a single distinctive booger hanging on it for most of those several years. 05:04:18 (again, the price is mostly for the container, I think) 05:04:18 No once thouching it, no one cleaning. 05:04:36 actually, it's a pity that the ASDA isn't near here: they literally sell bottles of tap water for like 15p 05:06:15 also i distinctly recalling having a cup when i was at university. 05:06:36 well more than one. 05:06:53 the one with the nice math on it broke when i was washing it ): 05:06:54 part of my problem is I have nowhere to store things, really 05:07:07 ah 05:08:14 I would buy bottles of tap water 05:08:17 Or empty plastic bottles 05:08:28 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 05:09:14 the thing is, I can't exactly carry empty bottles around with me all day 05:09:40 my current solution is to buy a lot of water during daytime, and drink it 05:09:43 then not drink water overnight 05:11:32 I do much the same with food, actually 05:11:36 because I'm not sure how long it'll keep 05:19:23 "Polaris and Omnipotence both require level 5 to be trained in order to even start training level 1. Even if a drunken Dev/GM threw an Omnipotence book at you, you'd never be able to start training it. Same with Polaris." 05:27:09 -!- Oolicile has joined. 05:29:37 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:33:27 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:37:42 -!- skj3gg has joined. 05:46:01 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 05:49:35 -!- skj3gg has joined. 05:54:00 [wiki] [[Talk:DeadPig]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41941 * AndoDaan * (+487) PIGFARMER idea. 05:57:43 [wiki] [[Talk:DeadPig]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41942&oldid=41941 * AndoDaan * (+16) Noticed SICKPIG.... 06:05:25 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 06:06:47 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 06:08:33 `relcome Oolicile 06:08:34 ​Oolicile: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:08:46 gay 06:11:17 o.O 06:16:17 -!- skj3gg has joined. 06:16:50 What? 06:16:57 Oh rainbows. 06:17:47 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 06:18:01 doesn't even look like a rainbow 06:18:27 looks very dark 06:18:49 rainbows are Red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet 06:19:28 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 06:26:09 Oolicile: IRC color codes don't send exact colors 06:26:12 they just send suggestions 06:26:19 so your client is presumably using dark interpretations of the color codes in it 06:27:51 -!- skj3gg has joined. 06:40:43 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:41:03 -!- adu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:41:43 -!- adu has joined. 06:43:41 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:43:46 ais523: ah! now I've reproduced the 27 character solution at http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?utf8+to+unicode 06:44:01 ais523: the 30 character solution simply hard-codes the three output numbers in decimal 06:44:07 oh, right 06:44:12 the 27-char solution is not cheating 06:44:45 it even checks that the input is valid UTF-8 06:45:06 because the function that doesn't check for that and simply sets the "this is UTF-8" flag has a name that's very slightly longe 06:45:08 *longer 06:47:49 the short ruby solution is also non-cheating 06:49:06 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 06:49:07 Good night 07:01:57 -!- Oolicile has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:30:52 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:38:53 -!- oren has joined. 07:44:09 nortti: you're an Evillious Chronicles person, right? 07:44:22 Why is the new song Clockwork Lullaby 7 if there's no lu li la la la? 07:45:17 Oh, it's there 07:46:36 four hands and an axe, that elephant guy probably has double strike => http://www.pbfcomics.com/271/ 08:07:26 dulla: this is your second warning (re: "gay") 08:07:34 o: 08:08:47 b_jonas: I think that is Ganesh 08:09:36 dulla: I get the impression you don't much care 08:09:52 I'm a race to the bottom and it's my first week here 08:09:56 pretty terrible 08:11:15 [wiki] [[Talk:DeadPig]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41943&oldid=41942 * AndoDaan * (-16) Undo revision 41942 by [[Special:Contributions/AndoDaan|AndoDaan]] ([[User talk:AndoDaan|talk]]) 08:12:02 I think future historians might be baffled as to how in the span of one century, "gay" changed meanings three times 08:12:11 I mean slurs on day 1 already gave me pretty low patience. please don't make the channel shittier 08:14:23 Ok, maybe not historians. students of history perhaps. In the same way that I am baffled with the causes of the Crimean War 08:14:44 [wiki] [[Talk:DeadPig]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41944&oldid=41943 * AndoDaan * (-487) Removing unasked for, and hastily given idea. 08:14:45 too much crime 08:14:47 it's right there in the name 08:15:10 deadpig should be pig + deadfish imo 08:15:56 wikipedia: "The immediate cause involved the rights of Christian minorities in the Holy Land, which was controlled by the Ottoman Empire." Me: "So they fought about in Crimea? Lolwut." 08:17:03 It may have made sense at the time, but it doesn't now. 08:20:22 oren: I'm only aware of one outdated meaning ("happy", which is pretty innocuous) 08:21:57 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:24:51 ais523: the sequence was: bright,happy -> homosexual (slang) -> homosexual (official) -> general pejorative 08:25:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:26:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:27:52 The associated press now calls for "gay" over "homosexual" when once the reverse was preferred in proper writing 08:31:43 And recently 08:31:47 defents in armor 08:31:57 is now a slang for the chinese 08:32:21 haven't heard of that colloquialism since what? 08:32:30 The Opium Wars? 08:35:58 dulla: Well, racists use that word all the time. LAst time I recall hearing it was some hobo in a McDonalds yelling at a Korean family who were conversing in Korean. 08:36:11 Huh 08:38:17 Well, at least I know 98% of people are straight 08:38:23 I'm not deluded in that respect 08:39:59 Toronto has a big problem with homeless and crazy people. 08:39:59 Lol that's off by a lot, dude 08:41:13 well fuck 2010 08:42:01 why that year? It wasn't that bad a year... 08:42:32 Census year 08:43:01 Anyways, must be all this "Queering Agriculture" and "Queering Geology and Environmentalism" 08:43:08 You can thank Maryland for that 08:45:00 The way people bring politics into science is a problem, but not a new one. In my father's day there was "Lysenkoism" and "communist science" 08:45:46 Well, this is the information age 08:46:06 There is too much opinion, and not enough fact to dissuade all these new age peddlers 08:47:17 dulla: That has always been the case. Those who print the textbooks and newspapers have the power to mold the perception of reality. 08:47:44 And business weekly came out with unsurprising figures about the most generous donors to media 08:48:06 not sure about academia, but the liberalism there is far from classical, neo-, rather 08:48:37 dulla: but for the first time in history, it is practically free to post your opinion to the entire world. 08:49:18 bit late, but at zero marginal cost it's a terrible supply side 08:52:58 This level of marginal cost means that opinions are in heavy competition, and it is possible for someone to read news exclusively tailored to their views. 08:53:56 -!- ski has joined. 08:55:59 Because of this, people can exist within their own "reality" where within reason, what they want to be true, is true. 08:56:38 those problems will only get worse as long as countries pay more attention to their GDP than to minimum and median incomes as a measure of economic performance and wealth. 08:58:07 int-e: the problems with people being able to select their own reality, or the problems with poverty? 08:58:45 the latter 08:58:51 Well 08:58:53 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 08:59:09 It would be great if they realised the tax only screws everyone but the plutocrats 08:59:50 The former isn't a problem per se, though it probably has some undesirable real world implications. 09:01:28 (Hmm, has anybody ever blamed Google for contributing to catching people in a bubble of radical ideas that are internally consistent?) 09:02:29 I know people blame Reddit for that a lot, and DuckDuckGo claims not doing that as one of its marketing points 09:02:56 dulla: I think they do; it's intentionally designed that way. Politicians get their share in the form of thinly disguised bribes. 09:03:29 ...thinly veiled... 09:03:38 Eh, why are public services such good laundering grounds 09:03:52 ais523: thanks, interesting. 09:04:23 Well, at least we can make cracks about how the Pentagon used USA Today as a credible source on Putin's neurotype 09:04:44 Poor show, and even then, it only means you are getting slapped around by an atypical 09:05:11 I just bubble-hop when reading the news: RT, Fox, Xinhuanet, Asahi Shinbun, BBC. 09:06:16 * dulla shrugs 09:06:24 I simply don't use google to find things 09:06:31 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 09:06:41 I google things with Bing 09:06:48 ew 09:08:42 baidu is a good portal to a different bubble 09:12:36 [wiki] [[DeadPig]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41945&oldid=41939 * 122.37.11.94 * (+144) 09:12:56 Deadpig. Mxlnt! 09:27:44 http://dilbert.com/strip/2005-08-21 09:28:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:30:46 good mroing 09:33:11 -!- adu has joined. 09:59:43 did youknow you can make popcorn in bacon fat? 10:16:00 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:18:09 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:28:33 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 10:48:54 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 10:50:49 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:08:34 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 11:23:59 -!- boily has joined. 11:30:51 Boily. What's with you and chicken? 11:35:04 -!- AndoDaan_ has changed nick to AndoDaan. 11:38:06 AndhelloDaan! 11:38:15 chicken is good. 11:38:34 AhoiBoiBoily. 11:38:38 HYPERCRITICAL CHICKEN 11:39:24 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 11:40:53 That's your answer? It's good? 11:42:53 see, int-e understands the chicken. 11:43:07 (also, int-hello!) 11:43:17 hoily world 11:43:26 it's very zen to qualify chickens. therefore it's good. 11:44:06 it's a transcendential thing 11:44:25 (1044) DO REINSTATE CHICKENS 11:44:47 PLEASE CHICKEN OUT 11:45:03 b_jhellonas! 11:45:57 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:48:37 roily 11:49:41 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:52:13 Chickens are just a co-monad in the category of birds. 11:52:55 mroman, I am not sure that that makes sense 11:53:05 What is composition in the category of birds? 11:53:45 an egg 11:54:12 That makes more sense 11:54:28 -!- augur has joined. 11:56:37 mrhelloman. Tanelle. 11:56:56 mroman: if monads are monoids in the category of endofunctors, what are comonads? 11:57:51 comonoids in the dual category of endofunctors I think 11:58:40 Although I am not convinced that comonoids are a thing that is different from monoids 11:58:58 * AndoDaan wonders if we're still talking about chicken 11:59:31 * boily brains suffered an out of memory error. 12:01:30 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 12:02:38 int-e: do you know enough CT to assert that comonoids are a thing, and if so how they relate to comonads? 12:02:42 they are 12:02:48 ! 12:02:55 dun dun dun ♪ 12:03:01 comonads are comonoids in the category of endofunctors, like you'd expect 12:03:08 however comonoids in Hask or such are boring 12:03:28 you get blah :: a -> () and bleh :: a -> (a,a) with laws that make it so that bleh x must be (x,x) 12:03:36 so they're all trivial 12:03:47 (as opposed to mempty :: () -> a and mappend :: (a,a) -> a) 12:04:13 bleh indeed. 12:05:06 sorry, it disappointed me too 12:05:13 if it helps there's some kinda relationship to linear logic. 12:05:22 like !A is a comonoid, I think. 12:06:18 what is linear logic? 12:06:40 uhhhh, that's a whole 'nother story 12:06:42 wikipedia knows 12:07:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:08:44 I'll be wikipédiaing later. too much blood in my coffeestream now. 12:08:56 isn't blah and bleh the same thing? 12:09:24 oh 12:09:27 a -> () 12:09:37 a -> a and a -> (a,a) should be pretty much the same thing 12:10:02 it's an isomorphism after all? 12:14:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MYRIAD CHICKEN). 12:15:03 It's like ten thousand Chickens when all you need is some rice. 12:15:36 man, I need sleep. 12:18:53 All you need is a thread pool full of chickens laying eggs. 12:19:10 Just make sure they put their eggs into an MVar. 12:19:36 Maybe Chicken: Just Hen | Cock 12:20:57 Is an Mvar a type of basket? 12:26:19 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:27:04 yeah 12:27:16 You should learn Haskell ;) 12:27:43 I forgot how I was going to make the eggs in one baskett(?) joke. 12:29:10 I probably should. I'm getting adept with JS at the moment. A vast improvement over Lua. But I feel like it doesn't contribute much to any deeper understanding of programming. 12:30:08 It's all "Developers! Developers! Developers!" 12:31:16 I've started that Haskell online book twice now. But lost focus. 12:33:34 Programming is easy 12:33:37 developping is hard 12:34:41 True enough. 12:37:59 but that's no excuse to not learn haskell 12:38:57 How would learning haskell help me better understand esoteric languages? 12:40:34 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 12:43:45 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:44:42 well 12:44:49 Haskell *is* an esoteric language 12:45:14 Unintentionally? 12:45:38 @pl let f x y z = (x && y) && (z || y || x) in f 12:45:38 ap (ap . (((.) . (&&)) .) . (&&)) ((flip (||) .) . flip (||)) 12:45:48 see 12:45:55 "ap (ap . (((.) . (&&)) .) . (&&)) ((flip (||) .) . flip (||))" looks pretty esoteric too me 12:47:43 What are the dots? 12:49:13 function composition 12:49:21 f(g(h(x)) = f .g . h $ x 12:49:34 > (+1) . (*3) $ 4 12:49:35 13 12:50:02 @type ($>) 12:50:03 Not in scope: ‘$>’ 12:50:04 Perhaps you meant one of these: 12:50:04 ‘>>’ (imported from Control.Monad.Writer), 12:50:13 @define let ($>) = flip ($) 12:50:13 Parse failed: Parse error: EOF 12:50:17 @define ($>) = flip ($) 12:50:20 Defined. 12:50:29 > 4 $> (*3) $> (+1) 12:50:31 13 12:50:54 > 4 $> (*3) $> (+1) $> ([]) 12:50:55 Couldn't match expected type ‘b0 -> c’ with actual type ‘[t0]’ 12:50:58 bleh 12:51:01 > 4 $> (*3) $> (+1) $> (\c -> [c]) 12:51:03 [13] 12:51:11 > 4 $> (*3) $> (+1) $> (\c -> [c,c]) $> map (*2) 12:51:13 [26,26] 12:51:28 Yep, definitely looks esoteric to me. Well made point. 12:52:21 you whish! 12:52:33 > 5 $> (Just) $> fmap (+1) 12:52:35 Just 6 12:52:38 yeah 12:52:48 > 5 $> (Just) $> fmap (+1) `mappend` (Just 6) 12:52:49 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show b0) 12:52:49 arising from a use of ‘M42903801347602899049054.show_M42903801347602899049... 12:52:49 The type variable ‘b0’ is ambiguous 12:52:52 ... 12:52:53 hm 12:52:56 @type mappend 12:52:57 Monoid a => a -> a -> a 12:53:08 > (5 $> (Just) $> fmap (+1)) `mappend` (Just 6) 12:53:10 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show b0) 12:53:10 arising from a use of ‘M31568903824889092139084.show_M31568903824889092139... 12:53:10 The type variable ‘b0’ is ambiguous 12:53:17 wtf 12:53:24 > Nothing `mappend` Nothing 12:53:25 Nothing 12:53:31 Monoids are one input variable functions? 12:53:33 > (Just 5) `mappend` (Just 6) 12:53:34 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) 12:53:34 arising from a use of ‘M44189842421378468049108.show_M44189842421378468049... 12:53:34 The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous 12:53:48 > ((Just 5) `mappend` (Just 6)) :: Just Int 12:53:49 Expected a type, 12:53:50 but ‘Data.Maybe.Just GHC.Types.Int’ has kind ‘Data.Maybe.Maybe *’ 12:53:58 > ((Just 5) `mappend` (Just 6)) :: Maybe Int 12:53:59 No instance for (Data.Monoid.Monoid GHC.Types.Int) 12:53:59 arising from a use of ‘Data.Monoid.mappend’ 12:54:07 damn 12:54:33 > ((Just 5) `mappend` (Just 6)) :: Maybe () 12:54:34 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num ()) arising from the literal ‘5’ 12:54:41 > ((Just ()) `mappend` (Just ())) :: Maybe () 12:54:42 Just () 12:54:46 yeah! 12:54:48 :) 12:55:02 > foldl1 mappend [Just (), Just (), Nothing] 12:55:04 Just () 12:55:07 > foldl1 mappend [Just (), Just (), Nothing, Just ()] 12:55:09 Just () 12:55:36 @info First 12:55:36 First 12:55:40 @type First 12:55:41 Maybe a -> First a 12:55:46 I feel like I've just witnessed a fascinated argument in Esperanto. 12:55:48 @hoogle First 12:55:50 Data.Monoid First :: Maybe a -> First a 12:55:50 Data.Monoid newtype First a 12:55:50 Control.Arrow first :: Arrow a => a b c -> a (b, d) (c, d) 12:55:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:56:06 @hoogle ALl 12:56:06 Prelude all :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool 12:56:07 Data.List all :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool 12:56:07 Data.Monoid All :: Bool -> All 12:56:24 foldl1 mappend [All True, All False] 12:56:29 > foldl1 mappend [All True, All False] 12:56:30 All {getAll = False} 12:56:34 hehe 12:56:40 what's foldl1 mappend again? 12:56:56 I thought there was a shortcut for that 12:57:12 @hoogle foldl1 mappend 12:57:13 No results found 12:57:25 @hoogle fold 12:57:26 Data.Foldable fold :: (Foldable t, Monoid m) => t m -> m 12:57:26 Data.IntSet fold :: (Key -> b -> b) -> b -> IntSet -> b 12:57:26 Data.IntMap fold :: (a -> b -> b) -> b -> IntMap a -> b 12:57:30 hm 12:57:37 > foldl [All True, All False] 12:57:38 Couldn't match expected type ‘b -> a -> b’ 12:57:38 with actual type ‘[Data.Monoid.All]’ 12:57:41 > fold [All True, All False] 12:57:42 All {getAll = False} 12:59:03 so lists are foldable 12:59:03 ok 12:59:29 AndoDaan: [] is a Foldable and All is a Monoid 12:59:29 so 12:59:31 it works! 13:01:22 Folding is like Burlesque's reduction? 13:01:34 yeah 13:01:48 !blsq_uptime 13:01:51 hm 13:02:10 -!- blsqbot has joined. 13:02:13 !blsq {1 1 1 1}r& 13:02:13 | 1 13:02:15 !blsq {1 1 0 1}r& 13:02:16 | 0 13:02:18 fwiw 13:02:23 thats fold [All ...] 13:04:08 if you know haskell you can extend burlesque! 13:06:28 I don't think I'd ever be adept enough to mess with anybody their well crafted work. 13:06:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:08:00 muahah 13:08:05 as if Burlesque were well crafted 13:08:40 http://mroman.ch/lisp/spec.html 13:08:43 this is much more well crafted 13:09:01 It's the first esolang I learned to program in. It holds a special place in my esteem. 13:09:42 (http://codepad.org/kZPDim0y) 13:10:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:10:05 (^- you can use this program to circumvent firewalls) 13:18:27 If you'd like to help go ahead :D 13:18:57 There's lots of things that need doing that can be done in the language itself 13:19:02 so no haskell knowledge is required 13:19:19 (for example a lib to read/write PPM images or stuff like that) 13:19:27 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 13:21:46 or you could write an interpreter in Java/Python for it 13:21:47 whatever 13:21:49 that'd help too 13:21:53 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:23:11 or perl, or php 13:23:16 @tell oerjan I do not have information of fungot's migration route. Although I could compute a lower bound. 13:23:16 Consider it noted. 13:23:30 I think I'm still a ways away from implenting something as complex as Burlesque. 13:23:46 What was it, 349 commands? 13:24:06 no 13:24:06 -!- AndoDaan_ has changed nick to AndoDaan. 13:24:11 I meant implementing my Lisp Dialect 13:24:22 It's always good to have multiple implementations available 13:24:32 Ah. Sorry. 13:24:51 reimplementing Burlesque is WAAAAAAY TOOOOO MUCH effort 13:25:06 !blsq ?_ 13:25:06 | "I have 358 non-special builtins!" 13:25:11 358 :) 13:25:13 Hmm, I'll look into that. Do you have a more informal description of P~. 13:25:26 but the newest dev version is around 380 :) 13:25:57 Bloody hell. 13:26:46 P~ is more or less just a LISP dialect 13:27:01 I can give you lots of example code 13:27:20 What sets it apart from LISP? 13:28:10 http://codepad.org/tUx6pq4G 13:29:49 It looks funnier? :D 13:30:19 No let*, no set* 13:30:21 no lambda 13:30:35 that's probably what sets it apart the most. 13:32:03 TIL that proving the Knaster-Tarski fixed point theorem becomes really hard if you mix up the definitions of least and post fixed points :P [for some reason, the least element of a complete lattics is not a fixed point of most monotone functions...] 13:32:31 It has good multithreading built-in 13:32:42 don't know what LISP has to offer there but I'm sure LISP has multithreading too 13:33:06 just think of it as yet another LISP dialect 13:33:08 ;) 13:33:42 I like experimenting with stuff I guess 13:33:52 I haven't done anything with Lisp since I've read Godel, Escher, Bach years ago. 13:34:09 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 13:34:14 Or mathemagical themas... one of those two. 13:34:58 and 13:35:03 Me too, but I don't seem to have your knack of producing viable offspring out of experimentation. 13:35:04 you can always just add Burlesque to it :) 13:35:08 It galls me. 13:35:21 like uhm 13:35:44 (`XX++` 123) 13:35:52 maybe 13:36:04 digitsum -> (`XX++` $0) 13:36:11 :p 13:36:15 but no 13:36:19 That's not my plan 13:41:04 AndoDaan: galls you? 13:43:15 Over the past few months, I've workend on maybe half a dosen ideas for my own language, but I never seem to be able to output anything. 13:43:48 s/dosen/dozen 13:44:19 I'm doing that wrong, I think. 13:46:59 Anyways. I know I'm nowhere near as skilled as any of the group here, but I was hoping enthousiasm would help me to add something of myself. 13:47:56 Bah. I'm chatty today. Sorry. 13:54:29 pff 13:54:35 How do you think I feel around here? 13:54:58 it's nice to see some activity even without fungot here :P 13:57:35 In your element? 14:00:41 Wait. Befunge was the first esoteric language I coded in, Burlesque second. Sorry. 14:04:47 what... 14:04:59 try some really esoteric languages 14:05:48 Like Interlingua? 14:06:01 If haskell is esoteric than burlesque true enough esoteric. 14:09:18 Maybe @in my element 14:09:30 but compared to 99% of the people in here I know shit about anything 14:15:12 -!- skj3gg has joined. 14:41:33 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 14:44:05 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:47:07 -!- skj3gg has joined. 14:54:02 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:00:22 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 15:01:38 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:04:36 -!- nycs has joined. 15:19:33 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 15:20:15 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 15:21:38 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 15:36:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:40:11 -!- skj3gg has joined. 15:45:59 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 15:46:29 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Client Quit). 16:00:44 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:02:22 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:15:14 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:15:23 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:16:33 -!- mihow has joined. 16:16:55 I've had a ridiculous idea on how to implement Eodermdrome 16:17:54 Does it involve living things? 16:17:55 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:18:22 fizzie, only incidentally 16:18:22 -!- augur has joined. 16:19:16 -!- perrier has joined. 16:19:38 -!- augur_ has joined. 16:21:27 Taneb, what is it 16:21:55 Phantom_Hoover, transpiling it into a research language one of my lecturers made that has similar semantics 16:22:01 And is already implemented 16:22:44 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:23:15 i mean the subgraph search is the main barrier to implementation, right? 16:23:32 if the implementation does that then you could just reuse it 16:23:54 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:26:10 That is a fair point 16:26:34 However I do not know the license on this code 16:28:20 slow wiki day 16:28:30 does it not say? and if not you can always ask the lecturer 16:29:05 (could it be down?) 16:30:27 -!- vanila has joined. 16:30:33 hi 16:36:15 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:39:11 Phantom_Hoover, I could do 16:46:37 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 16:47:22 -!- augur has joined. 16:48:42 HTTP 2 is approved! 16:56:16 :/ 16:58:59 vanila: ? 16:59:04 you don't like it? 16:59:20 i dontknow about it 17:01:03 Hmm. Do I write my next Lisp in JavaScript or F# ... XD 17:01:22 next Lisp ?? 17:01:52 a guy in #scheme is writing a nice js one which runs in a abrowser 17:02:17 Well, I already wrote Heresy. 17:02:49 vanila: HTTP/2 has a lot of cool things. Most importantly, it allows all content needed from a server to be served over a single connection 17:03:03 ok coppro 17:03:12 so for instance, if you visit a page with lots of images, all the images would be sent as requested, rather that negotiating separate connections for each one 17:03:13 that's definitely an improvement 17:04:08 and unlike existing pipelining, it doesn't rely on a specific order of content 17:04:18 so the server can respond to the requests in whatever order it wants 17:04:29 coppro, the web make me sad though 17:04:51 Right now though I think I want to write a basic string-format function for Heresy. 17:05:13 HTTP/2: so SPDY. 17:06:15 I kinda wish Heresy had a Haskell style 'show'. It would be a lot easier to write said string-formatter. 17:06:36 well why dont you add it 17:06:48 I should. It's a good idea. 17:06:54 I look forward to the end of sharding. 17:06:59 i guess its tricky to copy typeclasses 17:07:07 but you can dynamically dispatch to show 17:07:43 Yeah, I probably won't go that far. But a simple (show ...) or (str ...) function that turns most arguments into their string representation should be good. 17:09:50 -!- TieSoul has joined. 17:10:02 I could just extend str$ to accept lists really; or even just to (print ...) to an open string value, which would be quite easy. 17:12:39 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:13:10 -!- TieSoul has joined. 17:14:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:15:58 -!- augur has joined. 17:17:14 -!- augur_ has joined. 17:17:28 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:20:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:24:22 do you have an new ideas 17:24:25 any 17:27:16 no 17:27:21 all my ideas are recycled 17:27:32 new ideas are over-rated. 17:27:42 im bored help me out :) 17:27:49 has anyone veen looking into anything cool 17:27:52 New ideas for languages, presumably? 17:27:58 anything 17:29:21 I dunno about new, but there's stuff I haven't seen implemented or talked about much. 17:29:28 oh yeah? 17:32:03 Hmm. what char to use for the templat value signal. 17:34:58 Lisp tradition tends to use ~, C tradition is %, and the BASIC standard (seldom implemented) is #. 17:35:24 I also thought of using _, just because it seemed like a value less likely to be needed as a regular character. 17:35:33 Hmm, I thought I had something bookmarked. 17:35:57 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:36:03 use the letter e 17:36:48 And theen usee thee usual trick of doubling thee eescapee characteer to seelf-inseert. 17:37:05 :D 17:37:57 Racket supports Unicode. A shame there's not a Unicode value for the Elder Sign. 17:39:16 -!- skj3gg has joined. 17:39:30 -!- TieSoul has joined. 17:39:49 Various kinds of non-classical logic can be interesting. 17:40:34 I don't really see much being done with those. 17:40:48 -!- koo7 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:41:25 what sort of logic? 17:41:51 Well, fuzzy logic actually is pretty well known for AI stuff. 17:42:28 I don't remember reading about modal logic being used for computation, but a quick search turned up a pdf on it. 17:43:38 I'm trying to find the article on Gsome reek logic of discussion system or whatever. 17:45:40 modal 17:46:15 as long as it doesn't completely go to pseudoprobablity on that fuzzy logic 17:46:38 I like my chances in [0,1] 17:49:38 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:52:59 -!- augur has joined. 17:54:29 Anyway, another idea I'll try to write about some later is on chatbots. 17:55:22 Basically taking a regular chat bot, and using it as a node in a network that passes messages to each other. 17:56:09 So, to start with you'd have a learning bot that tries to mimmic visitors, but it'd pick up dumb stuff from people messing with it. 17:57:18 But if you had a non-learning chatbot trained to just paraphrase anything said to it politely, you could use it to filte anything said to the first bot. 17:57:56 That'd put heavy weight on the filter 17:58:05 So the pair of bots as a network would appear as one bot that sort of mimmics people, but tries to sound polite. 17:58:33 Hum 17:58:50 If you find that Gsome reek logic thing 17:58:55 send it to me 17:59:47 Wee! That was as easy as I expected. 18:00:17 ? 18:00:17 That's just whatever it is where categories of thigns are descriped as "all x are y", "some x are y", "not all x are y", and "no x are y". 18:00:44 And I think is used in the type of argument that involves two postulates and one conclusion? 18:00:55 ??? 18:00:59 Wrote my first version of a string formatter. 18:05:01 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 18:08:12 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:08:25 I can't remember any of the terms I want to sue here. 18:08:28 *use 18:08:49 I should just eat and take a nap. 18:15:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:26:08 -!- spiette has joined. 18:37:49 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 18:41:05 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 18:43:19 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 18:44:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:45:02 I talked a bit about reversible computation in #haskell 18:45:04 you can read it if you like 18:45:44 -!- NotSoul has joined. 18:46:07 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:46:20 -!- NotSoul has changed nick to TieSoul. 18:46:29 -!- TieSoul_ has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:49:22 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 18:53:28 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:00:56 huh? vanila 19:01:31 Reversible computation sounds nice. 19:01:38 join #haskell 19:01:38 it's a fascinating subject! 19:01:43 it's over 19:01:47 but you can see the logs 19:03:01 Here we go, he thing I was thinking of. 19:03:13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_proposition 19:04:55 you lied to me vanila , you are strawberry 19:04:58 surely that'd be "strawbery"? 19:04:59 haha 19:09:19 So anyway, what about a programming language with classes, in which classes are described in terms of categorical propositions? 19:09:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:10:32 I guess logic programming is a basic example of this 19:10:41 -!- augur has joined. 19:10:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:10:49 where you write out assertions of facts 19:11:05 -!- augur has joined. 19:12:00 https://github.com/jeffreycwitt/catlogic this was linked from the wiki page 19:12:14 why are you peddling LogicT, by the way, vanila 19:12:29 i never talked about it 19:13:14 shit's reversible 19:13:18 lol 19:13:34 i feel like it's a different type of reversible, not sure.. 19:15:20 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:18:00 oh darn, im having a problem with xz 19:18:05 blu 19:18:07 I see now 19:27:20 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 19:31:56 This is what I did for fun this evening: https://github.com/jarcane/heresy/blob/master/lib/string.rkt#L78 19:33:32 -!- skj3gg has joined. 19:36:54 -!- mihow has joined. 19:56:52 I've been working on http://orteil.dashnet.org/randomgen/?gen=http://mdude1350.webs.com/generators/random-code/IBNIZ-basic-generator.txt 19:59:19 ? 20:00:53 It produces random texts which, most of the time, are syntactically valid IBNIZ programs. 20:00:55 ahh 20:00:55 neat 20:01:56 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:02:07 Mostly I'm trying to reduce the probability of boring programs without making the results too predetermined. 20:02:26 So you are making completely random ones? 20:02:42 also, I have 1.7e21 heavenly chips 20:02:45 That's what I'm trying to do. 20:03:31 http://orteil.dashnet.org/randomgen/?gen=http://mdude1350.webs.com/generators/random-code/IBNIZ-simple-generator.txt 20:03:46 This is a earlier version of it. 20:04:07 The thing is, I want to avoid stuff like adding a number only to immediately pop it. 20:04:41 Or putting two constants in and doing an operation that just makes a third constant. 20:04:43 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:05:04 Since that just uses up space. 20:05:11 So I want them to be random, but terse. 20:05:36 The other is that adding commands completely randomly causes stack over and underflows. 20:06:12 So at first, I was just trying to string together commands that added up to a net change of zero to the number of items in the stack. 20:06:50 But that can still cause underflows early in the program depending on what order things end up in. 20:07:31 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 20:08:42 It'd be easier to made random programs in a language that groups with parentheses, I think. 20:08:56 Or at least has a BNF definition written up. 20:10:11 -!- skj3gg has joined. 20:12:58 -!- augur has joined. 20:13:22 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:21:54 -!- MDude has joined. 20:22:43 As I was saying before my computer turned off, most languages don't do A/V as simply as IBNIZ does. 20:23:24 But I could try making something for http://wurstcaptures.untergrund.net/music/ which is audio-only. 20:29:49 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:32:44 -!- vanila has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:03:35 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:06:09 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:08:43 MDude: BY A/V you mean audio and video? 21:12:05 architecture/ventriloquism 21:15:49 -!- bb010g has joined. 21:23:41 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 21:25:17 -!- aretecode has joined. 21:25:32 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 21:33:30 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:34:25 Yeah, audeio/video. That's what IBNIZ does with whatever's on the stack after each cycle the programs runs. 21:37:02 -!- FreeFull has joined. 21:39:07 MDude: IBNIZ is a pretty great thing. 21:40:34 That is the case. 21:42:34 I would think it'd be simple to generate arbitrary programs in this text generator, but it seems to really not like recursion. 21:54:29 -!- koo7 has joined. 22:00:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:03:28 Or, I forgot to define what operators are. 22:03:39 Both porbably. 22:42:11 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:02:44 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:17:28 -!- _AndoDaan has joined. 23:18:00 <_AndoDaan> Is the wiki down? 23:18:43 -!- _AndoDaan has changed nick to AndoDaan. 23:26:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:26:58 hey oerjan 23:27:12 some guy asked about the wiki, "it down?" 23:27:13 @messages- 23:27:13 fizzie said 10h 3m 56s ago: I do not have information of fungot's migration route. Although I could compute a lower bound. 23:27:22 fizzie: fiendish 23:27:27 ?? 23:28:01 looks down 23:28:05 Hi. Some Guy here. 23:28:08 i am not someone who can fix it. 23:28:22 also, may i recommend downforeveryoneorjustme 23:28:24 Should we call in Stallman? 23:28:35 no, fizzie or Gregor 23:28:58 sadly they both look idle 23:29:17 fizzie are terrorists attacking your servers? You may need to do something about it 23:29:42 dulla: the server is known to be crap, it's free hosting. 23:29:55 so outages are to be expected. 23:30:08 @echo hi 23:30:08 echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "freenode", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo hi"]} target:#esoteric rest:"hi" 23:30:11 oops 23:30:14 `echo hi 23:30:30 oh HackEgo isn't even here 23:30:42 it's likely the server is physically down, then. 23:30:49 fizzie rescind that previous statment, did a stiff breeze cause the servers to reformat? 23:31:18 dulla: fizzie is likely to be asleep, he's in britain and has a job... 23:31:27 and has been idle for 5 hours 23:31:45 Gregor has also been idle for 5 hours, but is normally in canada these days 23:32:20 site admins that sleep 23:32:36 scratch that, site admins that are awake 23:32:52 Okay. Thanks for the downforeveryone... tip. Didn't know about that. Handy. 23:33:06 unfortunately there are only those two that can access the server as opposed to just the wiki. 23:33:14 and for _some_ things, only Gregor can. 23:33:49 yep, it's nifty 23:34:02 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:34:12 does it send multiple requests from different locations? 23:34:23 i don't know 23:34:31 I know a free proxy view site 23:34:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:35:01 it's a great way to get around robot.txt 23:35:11 anyway, i consider the tests conclusive enough for the moment. 23:36:12 also, Gregor while nominally more likely to be awake, also has a history of being much less active here than fizzie. 23:37:41 sounds like having an invisible pink unicorn in a world that only has unicorns, and no invisibility capabilities 23:38:16 OKAY 23:48:33 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 23:51:14 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:54:45 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 23:55:36 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 23:56:21 it's a great way to get around robot.txt 23:56:34 is the best way to do that not to just... ignore robots.txt? 23:56:55 this is what you need to do with third-parties that respect robot.txt 23:58:30 fiendish