00:00:54 <int-e> 11786 bytes fungot.dat file, sha1sum 836cb8a6797db5578498bfdb829cc321b76d0bea fungot.dat
00:00:54 <fizzie> It gives me a "download" option, at least.
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00:01:44 <fizzie> If 7 hex digits is good enough for git, probably 5 is good enough for this.
00:02:08 <fizzie> I'm not sure if that's the most recent version or not.
00:02:26 -!- fnordbot has joined.
00:03:13 <fnordbot> echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2
00:03:20 <fizzie> That seems very short.
00:03:27 <fizzie> It must've been an old version. But at least it worked.
00:03:44 <int-e> ^rot13 hello jbeyq
00:03:57 <fizzie> I got it from ˜/src/fungot/data/fungot.dat on the laptop, because it was easier to boot than the actual fungot server and/or the desktop.
00:04:09 <fizzie> (Come on, even the ˜ is some freaky thing.)
00:04:47 <int-e> I guess it's a small device
00:05:03 <fizzie> You could use ˜ if you have a strict quota on your home directory.
00:05:23 <fizzie> This is one of these "phablets", so it's not even that small.
00:07:34 -!- skj3gg has joined.
00:08:01 <int-e> fizzie: yes, 7 hex digits is enough since no malice was involved here. but it was easier to copy the whole output :)
00:09:30 <fizzie> What is weird is that the fungot.dat I provided also has (some) empty lines in the first 10.
00:09:42 <fizzie> According to my working hypothesis about empty lines, that shouldn't have worked.
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00:10:19 <int-e> I'm running with cfunge-0.3.3
00:10:38 <fizzie> Ohhh, ok. That makes "sense".
00:11:24 <int-e> (I only compiled the other versions on my home PC, not on that server)
00:11:58 <fizzie> But I'm pretty sure what's on the fungot-server is some source-control checkout that's later than the 0.9 release, and at least with the fungot.dat it has that works.
00:12:07 <fizzie> Although maybe the newer fungot.dat no longer has any empty lines.
00:12:45 <fizzie> I really should have just copied that, since I'm pretty sure I even put that somewhere on the laptop just in case. But a quick 'locate' only found the one.
00:13:05 <fizzie> (Probably the new one was inside a tarball or something.)
00:14:19 <fizzie> Well, good enough for today, I think I'm off to sleep.
00:17:01 <int-e> cheers, good night
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03:32:29 <zzo38> Do you know how to set up a situation in Magic: the Gathering where you can control what cards both players will have in their hand in the subgame? Remember that opponent can mulligan, so you have to take that into consideration, too!
03:42:45 -!- ProofTechnique has joined.
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03:46:52 <oren> It seems that to make anything with multiple monitors work, you need to write some sh scripts that call xrandr
03:47:31 <oren> and work out the transformation matrices yourself.
03:47:51 <oren> luckily, i have taken a course on transformation matrices.
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04:07:15 <oren> xrandr --output VGA1 --transform -0.948611,0,1366,0,-0.948611,800,0,0,1
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04:08:21 <oren> See, this is shy I keep different fonts on different terminals
04:16:13 <oren> crap. xfce's window placer keeps placing windows offscreen
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04:29:12 <oren> seems like I can't take a picture of my computer with my computer
04:44:35 <zzo38> Do you know if there is query URL for the book/chapter/verse of World English Bible?
04:48:15 <oren> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?version=WEB&search=2%20Timothy%201:7
04:49:05 <oren> But, unfortunately that includes abunch of other stuff in the page
04:51:58 <oren> http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=Mt.+10%3A34&ver=web
04:58:12 <oren> http://holy.be/web/verse/genesis-chapter-30-verse-4/
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04:58:23 <oren> This one doesn't seem to be a search url
05:00:02 <oren> And you can isolate the verse by looking for the div like <div id="single-verse">She gave him Bilhah her servant as wife, and Jacob went in to her.</div>
05:01:03 <zzo38> I notice their FAQ says "May I change or translate the World English Bible?" and their answer begins with "Yes and no. Because the World English Bible is God's Word, you may not do anything to change the meaning of the text. That is God's rule, not mine or any rule of man-made law. ..."
05:01:40 <oren> I dunno if the bible says that anywhere though
05:01:54 <zzo38> But really my opinion is, the Bible is just some small book compared to God's Word; but it is still something, and certainly does not make it worthless!! Nevertheless, if you do change the meaning, please don't call the new version the Bible.
05:02:05 <zzo38> It would be improper to do so.
05:02:36 <zzo38> I don't know what are your opinions of such thing
05:03:36 <oren> I guess the bible is definitely a historical text where the only "proper" version would be the one in hebrew and greek (and some aramaic)
05:04:51 <oren> Just like you can't change herodotus's Histories or Marx's Das Capital and claim it's the same text
05:06:08 <oren> And translations of those books are not really the same
05:07:16 <oren> Texts have names, this one is called "the bible", and to call any other text "the bible" is obviously improper
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05:14:00 <oren> I guess I'm skeptical of any attempt to translate any work from any language into any other language
05:16:38 <oren> Even dumb comedy anime are completely butchered when they are translated. How could a book of mixed poetry, law, history and mythology like the bible hold up?
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05:17:03 <zzo38> Well, they try to be as accurate as possible; you will probably inevitably lose something, although footnotes are often added for this and other reasons.
05:19:07 <zzo38> Of course mistakes are sometimes made; one section says "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", but some now believe that a better translation might be "poisoner".
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05:26:55 <oren> I wasn't really thinking of mistakes, more... Languages sort of carry around the culture they come from around with them...
05:28:08 <oren> So you have weird things like people in anime saying "the club president is a nice person, right?" which is sooo stilted it's not even funny
05:28:28 <zzo38> Yes, that too; also the text in the Bible is very old, so that the culture is old too
05:30:09 <oren> So we might not even know enough about the culture to make a correct interpretation.
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05:32:46 <zzo38> That is correct; but you can try to do best you can. Put relevant stuff about the way the old text was originally written in footnotes, stuff about culture, and keep the originals available so that people who understand it and can study it, will do so, and if more studies are made possibly you will figure out something new and fix it a bit better too.
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05:36:42 <oren> Now I'm annoyed that translated manga don't have footnotes
05:37:47 <oren> I mean it would obviously be easier for them to find out the relevant information about modern japan!
05:38:22 <zzo38> I agree that I would like to have some footnotes in there too
05:39:10 <zzo38> Not as many as the Bible, but it would help to sometimes put in a few
05:39:46 <zzo38> Also they should have page numbers; I see many manga without page numbers, even though the page numbers are referenced in the table of contents.
05:39:55 <oren> like "it's totally normal to refer to someone by their title when directly addressing them"
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05:40:52 <oren> page numbers. yes. they need them
05:45:10 <oren> Although some of these "translators" are too lazy to translate the table of centents
05:47:23 <zzo38> Even the Japanese version lacks page numbers even though it is referenced in the table of contents.
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05:48:06 <oren> huh. All the japanese manga I have have them
05:50:41 <zzo38> I have Akagi, by Fukumoto
05:53:10 <oren> hataraku maou by wagahara, kirumi-beibe- by kaduho, nichijou by arawi keiichi, nanoha strikers the comics by uh... nagatani?
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05:54:55 <oren> I don't know how many of those kanji are part of his family name and how many his personal name
05:56:22 <oren> oh, it's hasegawa
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06:01:19 <oren> aqua by amano kozue, nadesiko by asamiya kia
06:01:25 <oren> ok now i'm just bragging
06:02:24 <oren> anyway, all those have page numbers...
06:02:48 <oren> well, not on all pages, but on enough
06:03:32 <oren> but I've seen many translators cut out the page numbers
06:04:01 <oren> (i think it might be a space-saving measure to make smaller archives?)
06:05:34 <zzo38> All I know is that Fukumoto manga doesn't have page numbers
06:05:57 <oren> hm... do you have digital or a real copy?
06:06:12 <oren> all those I listed were paper books
06:07:37 <oren> that's pretty odd not to have page numbers, in a digital release it would make sense, but not on paper
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06:19:45 <oren> For example, Akagi is available on the kindle store.
06:23:26 <oren> holy crap, a lot of manga is available for really cheap on kindle store!
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06:30:13 <oren> which has now motivated me to get out my credit card, and make my second-ever online transaction
06:38:55 <zzo38> I have it on paper
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06:40:44 <oren> ah... beats me then :P
06:54:33 <oren> well you could always just write the numbers in then??
06:59:53 <oren> some people don't like it when I write in my books...
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07:09:09 <oren> but my copy of linux in a nutshell annotated by me and my father has saved my ass several times
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07:57:54 <oren> Zenon Pylyshyn has an awesome name.
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08:06:45 <oren> He's only mentioned once in my KRR textbook, but I wish he was mentioned more than once
08:15:02 <doesthiswork> I just misread a sentence from his presidential address as "American foreign policy against the Unix operating system"
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08:18:39 <oren> i assume it actually said "ISIS"
08:22:18 <oren> oh, apparently it was in 1986...
08:26:42 <Taneb> What do you call those electronic music things with the squares
08:27:22 <oren> Dance Dance Revolution?
08:28:12 <oren> ohh, you mean Launchpad
08:29:09 <oren> I parsed that as (electronic (music things)) first
08:30:29 <Taneb> The ones that look like a 4 by 4 array of squares
08:30:34 <Taneb> And pressing the squares does things
08:31:40 <Taneb> Oooh yes, it is Launchpad
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09:25:41 <oren> somehow I can't accept this book using "formulas"
09:25:57 <oren> It has to be "formulae"
09:27:19 <oerjan> i think you're going to find this a hard policy
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09:31:23 <oerjan> oren: they are both officially allowed, but "formulas" has more than 4 times as many google hits (with the quotes)
09:32:31 <oren> what's next, axises? lemmas? forums?
09:32:59 <oren> instead of axes, lemmata, and fora?
09:33:36 <Jafet> Their defiantly superior.
09:34:31 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure lemmas already won. i think axes is still hanging on.
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09:35:31 <oren> oh god, what if people start referring to ninjas?
09:36:10 <oerjan> NOW YOU'RE JUST BEING SILLY
09:36:21 <oerjan> does japanese even _have_ a plural?
09:36:30 <Jafet> Ninjas, stealthy, inconspicuous spies and assassins
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09:36:42 <oren> exactly it doesnt! one ninja, two ninja
09:37:02 <oren> one tsunami, two tsunami
09:37:07 <Jafet> Red ninja, blue ninja
09:37:10 <oerjan> Jafet: surely you mean hashashins
09:37:51 <oren> What about seraphim and mujahidin?
09:38:08 <oren> Are we going to essify them too?
09:38:28 <oerjan> seraphim is kept because it's cute. mujahedin is kept because people don't think of it as a plural.
09:38:57 <oerjan> although i guess seraphs is used...
09:39:31 <oerjan> White-Rabbit: comes with a free dagger
09:39:52 <oren> and some brownies
09:40:07 <White-Rabbit> Hey now woah there... I prefer to call them tiny swords.
09:40:49 <oren> brownies are a common way to serve hashish
09:41:17 <oerjan> just because hashashins have dark skin you don't get to call them brownies, oren
09:41:42 <oerjan> (did they, even? syrians aren't very dark.)
09:42:48 <oren> uhh... in Canada "brownies" means a sort of choclate cake cut into small pieces which can have fruit or coconut (or in this case, hashish) mixed in
09:43:31 <Taneb> oren, oerjan was making a joke
09:44:25 <oren> oh. I thought this was another place where Canadian is different from English or
09:44:31 <White-Rabbit> Sooooo confused....... *brain leaks out of ear a little*
09:45:04 <oerjan> White-Rabbit: if you have brain leak problems i don't recommend staying in this channel hth
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09:45:51 <oerjan> i've had brownies (no fruit, though) in the local coffee bars.
09:46:09 <oerjan> at least they called them that
09:46:30 <Jafet> The hashishin didn't serve brownies, you lawless anachronist
09:46:48 <oerjan> Jafet: only because they didn't have chocolate hth
09:47:21 <oerjan> i'm sure they had other things to poison
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09:49:01 <oerjan> White-Rabbit: i'm not very up to date (especially in the middle ages) to middle-east sweets and cakes
09:49:02 <HackEgo> White-Rabbit: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
09:49:12 <oren> Hackego is slow today
09:49:13 <oerjan> slowest bot in the west
09:50:13 <oerjan> it's often been slower when it's been idle a while, i think the VM needs to get up and running
09:50:42 <oerjan> also with your nick you should get this at once:
09:50:46 <HackEgo> "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
09:51:40 <oren> I can literally hear my dad's voice in my head reading that...
09:52:09 <oerjan> a sure sign of madness.
09:52:14 <White-Rabbit> Ha, I imagine a voice reminiscent of the Stanley Parable voice.
09:52:17 <Taneb> oren, oerjan is your father
09:52:34 <oerjan> Taneb: i find that thought disturbing
09:52:46 <oren> IT CAN'T BE! IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!
09:53:10 <oerjan> seek your feelings, you know it to be hogwash
09:53:20 * oren hasn't actaully watched any of the star wars movies
09:53:43 <oerjan> oren: i think 99% of what i know about star wars i got from reading darths & droids
09:53:55 <oerjan> ok maybe a _slight_ overestimate there
09:54:26 <oerjan> however, d&d has just done that scene (twisted _and_ double twisted)
09:56:20 * oerjan actually watched empire strikes back once, the only one he's seen in a proper cinema. although he didn't remember everything.
09:57:25 <Taneb> I saw Revenge of the Sith in the cinema
09:57:39 <Taneb> I was slightly too young for any of the others
09:57:43 <Taneb> Especially the original trilogy
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09:59:50 <White-Rabbit> I'm getting sleepy, good night, day, evening to you all.
09:59:52 <oerjan> it's possible i could have watched some of the original trilogy on original release if they got to the small town i'm from, but i didn't.
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10:00:30 <oerjan> i haven't really gone to the cinema that much overall.
10:00:49 * oerjan vaguely recalls watching ET in cinema
10:03:55 <oerjan> i also recall going to watch woody allen's Zelig because the blurb somehow intrigued me; however i didn't actually see it because the cinematographer begged me not to insist that he put it on for just one person :P
10:05:54 <oren> The last movie i watched in a theatre was Apollo 18
10:07:28 <oerjan> i think the last i watched was Prisoner of Azkaban
10:08:07 <oerjan> accompanying a young cousin
10:08:33 <Taneb> The last time I went to the cinema was... last Wednesday
10:10:01 <FireFly> The last time I went to the cinema was last weekend... though before that it was probably three or so years ago
10:12:19 <Taneb> I went to the cinema the week before, too
10:12:24 <Taneb> I like going to the cinema
10:12:40 <Taneb> It's so rare when a film I want to see comes out but then like 4 happen at once
10:17:40 <HackEgo> [U+02C6 MODIFIER LETTER CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT]
10:22:07 <Taneb> Although I don't know if I can see Big Hero 6
10:27:46 <Taneb> b_jonas, I managed to see Kingsman and Jupiter Ascending
10:27:51 <mroman> Can't cabal tell me what dependencies I need for my own package?
10:28:13 <Taneb> Didn't get to see Predestination, but that saw a really limited release anyway, and I still need to see Big Hero 6
10:29:01 <b_jonas> the last one I saw in a cinema was Gru 2. It's not bad, but I didn't completely like it because it's sort of short. The villain is defeated before he even has a chance to start to rule the world with his minions.
10:31:42 <mroman> i.e. cabal inspect foo.hs and it will print the versions and names of all imported modules
10:31:44 <b_jonas> (apparently there's a third film in the works, prepared for 2017)
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10:53:44 <dulla> Apparently all the females are pretty neat in Big Hero 6
10:54:01 <dulla> From the comments that all the artists I scoot around seem to say
11:19:07 <zzo38> Is this correct? http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.2
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11:26:31 <b_jonas> zzo38: dunno, but it's scary. four black lotuses in your hand, plus a Mindslaver and other heavy duty cards…
11:29:47 <zzo38> You can't actually cast Black Lotus or Mindslaver at these times though
11:30:14 <b_jonas> the opponent has Wishes but nothing relevant in his sideboard? interesting
11:30:31 <b_jonas> nor do you have anything relevant
11:31:20 <b_jonas> so the first step solving the puzzle is to figure out the opponent's plan(s)
11:31:29 <b_jonas> in particular, whether he can win this turn
11:31:48 <b_jonas> oh, he has a Concordant Crossroad
11:31:53 <b_jonas> so he can win by attacking
11:32:19 <b_jonas> but he also has a Copper Tablet
11:32:44 <b_jonas> what's a "Somberworld Sage"?
11:33:14 <b_jonas> zzo38: what's "Somberworld Sage"?
11:33:24 <zzo38> A 0/1 creature with "{T}: Add three manas of one color into your mana pool; can be used only to cast creature spells."
11:34:00 <zzo38> Yes its name is typoed; thanks
11:34:25 <zzo38> The proper name is "Somberwald Sage"
11:38:12 <b_jonas> ok, so now I have to figure out whether the opponent has some sneaky way to cast the Mirrorweave and win with Biovisionary even if you somehow kill his Emrakul
11:39:31 <b_jonas> you have a Saharazad in your library? this puzzle is getting even more scary
11:41:49 <zzo38> Yes, you do have Shahrazad
11:43:44 <b_jonas> maybe that's what the wishes are for
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11:58:21 <zzo38> You can learn if it is or not.
11:58:31 <zzo38> (Or if they are for anything...?)
12:00:31 <oerjan> is there a card to turn wishes into horses
12:01:04 <b_jonas> sure, a horse in your sideboard
12:01:55 <b_jonas> Nightmare is the bestest one
12:03:01 * oerjan learns of the existence of The Wishing Horse of Oz
12:17:09 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker.
12:17:20 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti.
12:20:04 <oren> why did he change his name and then change it back
12:21:21 <oerjan> i generally assume that's because people are making a joke on another channel
12:21:45 <oerjan> although i've got this vague feeling nortti has used lawspeaker before
12:22:04 <oren> wait, nicks carry across channels?
12:22:19 <oerjan> on a single irc network
12:23:02 <olsner> it happens when nortti is creating laws in another channel
12:25:01 <oerjan> oren: in fact, it's possible to be on the network and _not_ on any channel, only speaking privately.
12:25:26 <oerjan> HackEgo got stuck that way for days recently
12:26:47 <nortti> olsner: in this case, I used it to test new auth system of oonbotti2
12:27:37 <oerjan> NOOO you broke my theory
12:28:14 <nortti> and usually I use it when I resolve disputes regarding the legal code of #osdev-offtopic
12:31:49 <oren> on the bright side, I finally got the dual monitor overhead to work
12:32:55 <oren> http://img.ctrlv.in/img/15/03/01/54f3069e5934c.png The upper part is suspended horizontally above my head
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12:38:01 <b_jonas> oerjan: indeed, I've even had two normal connections to freenode just to use a temporary alternate nick on a channel
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12:46:06 <int-e> @tell gamemanj What happened to fnordbot? <-- the bot doesn't reconnect by itself
12:46:06 <fnordbot> int-e:. " ford," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine," ford hissed at him, " two to the power of two hundred and thirty-nine thousand li
12:47:11 <int-e> But the main problem I have with the model is that it doesn't know when to stop.
12:48:28 <oerjan> clearly this bot doesn't have fungot's sublime intellect.
12:49:10 <fnordbot> nortti: too? " da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da
12:50:47 <oerjan> i'd say there's clear evidence it's still on the baby stage hth
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12:53:11 <nortti> wait, does it think I'm its father?
12:53:25 <nortti> no fnordbot, I'm not your da
12:53:25 <fnordbot> nortti: an invisible to himself, " to have turned into a bowl, " have you got a towel, it says, " is big. you must come with me?" said ford, " he was a hell of a lot. " so all i have to do in order to find this wretched," he said at last, " i don't know," said the vogon guard. " er, that was easy, i got a lift a finger to save you a lot. " so," said ford, " to have turned into a bowl, " have you got a towel, it says, " is big.
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13:16:58 <FireFly> Either it actually stopped this time, or it got lucky with the length cutoff
13:22:37 <int-e> "da da da dum" ... yeah I can see how that would loop
13:24:36 <int-e> Desperately [Ford] grabbed for the only bit of culture he knew offhand - he hummed the first bar of Beethoven's Fifth. "Da da da dum! Doesn't that stir anything in you?"
13:25:55 <Jafet> It did stir something in fnordbot.
13:25:56 <fnordbot> Jafet: would work, a mere nothingth of a second, and then his mind to have good ideas with, it must be said, some success. " so," said ford, " the vogons run the ship, the dentrassis. you want to go to work at," and he turned. " but the programme will take all the little white furry things with the cheese, unexpectedly to have blown up. it then?" he didn't look up. when we were kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the lang
13:27:09 <int-e> I love this bit, "but the programme will take all the little white furry things with the cheese, unexpectedly to have blown up." ... is it the cheese or the mice that blow up?
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13:29:08 <int-e> oerjan: It's good if it's stupid, I want the real fungot to come back eventually.
13:32:50 <oren> oh, the sun has risen
13:36:27 <int-e> oerjan: aren't you located in Japan?
13:36:54 <int-e> oren: Sorry, I meant to ask you.
13:37:02 <int-e> oerjan: I knew that. Tab completion failed me.
13:37:10 <oren> http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/pseudoscience-north-whats-happening-to-the-university-of-toronto/ nah i'm located in this god-forsaken place
13:37:15 <oerjan> that japanese exclave known as toronto
13:37:17 <int-e> possibly I pressed "e" instead of "r".
13:38:02 <int-e> One of the not-Americas on America.
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13:45:26 <HackEgo> [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+1542 CANADIAN SYLLABICS RE] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N]
13:45:53 <oerjan> clearly the correct spellin
13:50:06 <int-e> oh addendum to the topic: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/chuchus.png
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14:00:50 <oerjan> ah the monthly reappearance of that awful reddit ad
14:06:06 -!- boily has joined.
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14:14:26 <vanila> I liked it when reddit had a scam advert
14:14:38 <vanila> you know those ones that pretend to be an alert box, and it makes you download a malware .exe
14:14:54 <vanila> then the community complained about it and reddit said they wouldn't let that company buy ads again
14:16:58 <b_jonas> vanila: yeah, I've heared a lot about those fake antivirus stuff – not in the context of reddit in particular
14:18:38 <vanila> it was good how reddit people did something about it, and the site itself did too
14:18:54 <vanila> its rare people would get listened to
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14:28:07 <vanila> http://trevorjim.com/c-and-cplusplus-are-not-context-free/
14:28:37 <vanila> lexing depends on the result of parsing seems hilarious/awful
14:30:05 * int-e wonders about "The grammar is ambiguous"
14:33:55 <int-e> Oh it's just postulated that the grammar should be unambiguous. That's not entirely unreasonable, but not what people generally do in formal language theory when talking about context-free languages.
14:48:18 <olsner> I think only grammars can be ambiguous? so it seems it shouldn't show up when talking about the language
14:48:57 <vanila> i thinkt hey mean if you applied the CFG formalism, there would be an ambiguity in if/else handling - therefore it can't be context free
14:49:03 <myname> "On the road to Isengard our developers will continue to focus on removing old legacy code, usability and user friendliness."
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14:50:12 <int-e> olsner: "However, in practice we care about the actual parse tree determined by the grammar. In that sense, I think that for us to call the syntax context free we require an unambiguous grammar." <-- that's the argument from an earlier blog post
14:54:37 <olsner> I think the standard doesn'
14:55:13 <olsner> t specify that it must parse to a specific tree, but rather the as-if rule applies and you can use whatever grammar you want as long as it works the same way
14:56:20 <olsner> it might very well be impossible to make an unambiguous grammar, or a context-free one, but that's probably not what is being proved there
14:57:00 <vanila> and i think they are showing that
14:57:02 <int-e> It's besides the point anyway. The fact that using an undefined identifier is an error alone makes the languages context-sensitive.
14:57:37 <int-e> It's just that CFGs are a convenient way of over-approximating languages without losing too much precision.
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14:58:06 <vanila> thats a really cool way to look at it
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16:16:22 <mroman> fwiw I'm working on a lispified object notation with validation support
16:21:17 <vanila> what do you mean validation?
16:21:53 <int-e> validation against some sort of schema, I suppose
16:26:28 <FireFly> There's a schema thing for JSON as well, FWIW
16:33:40 <vanila> it's like a tree-regex
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16:51:15 <mroman> http://codepad.org/OQLzwnlF
16:51:24 <mroman> yes, validate against a schema
16:51:56 <vanila> why don't you use an s-expression syntax for the schema
16:53:06 <int-e> I like {} for repetition; it's nice and compact.
16:53:29 <int-e> I don't like the #RAW things
16:53:37 <int-e> vanila: I don't care much about s-expressions
16:53:48 <mroman> yeah #RAW sucks a little bit
16:53:54 <mroman> i think i can get rid of that
16:54:04 <vanila> then use XML or Json, not s-expressions
16:54:18 <int-e> vanila: though they are a natural notation for xml-without-attributes
16:54:38 <int-e> vanila: why does the schema have to use s-exp notation?
16:54:53 <int-e> this would just be the same mistake as xslt made
16:55:12 <int-e> xslt is powerful, but its syntax sucks.
16:55:50 <mroman> http://codepad.org/k8m37DeH
16:56:18 <vanila> it's not self-expressible
16:57:03 <mroman> but I don't care about that really :)
16:58:09 <int-e> I guess you could go the Relax NG route and have several syntaxes.
17:03:30 <int-e> It's a good example, I think. And I've only ever used the compact syntax.
17:03:35 <mroman> I'm not intending on validation validation files.
17:04:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[VerboseFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42065&oldid=37899 * 212.56.100.202 * (+0) MANDITORY -> MANDATORY (really glaringly obvious spelling)
17:06:49 <mroman> https://github.engineering.zhaw.ch/munt/RLON
17:11:47 <J_Arcane> I don't recall if Racket has an S-expression form for JSON.
17:11:49 <mroman> (persons is actually a raw match
17:12:01 <mroman> you can match against (#STRING 9)
17:12:04 <mroman> where 9 is a raw value
17:12:37 <mroman> *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(#STRING 9)" "('hi' 9)"
17:12:37 <mroman> *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(#STRING 9)" "('hi' 10)"
17:14:43 <mroman> *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(#STRING {9})" "('hi' 9 9 9)"
17:15:08 <mroman> {9 | 0} which would match against ('hi' 9 9 0 9 0) or something like that
17:15:13 <mroman> I guess that can be implemented
17:15:42 <mroman> not sure about the syntax thugh
17:17:47 <int-e> what about grouping... (foo 1 | 2 a | b) looks incomprehensible
17:18:06 <mroman> *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(#STRING {9 | 0})" "('hi' 9 9 0 0 9)"
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17:42:45 <mroman> (foo "bar" 9) and (foo 9 "bar")?
17:42:51 <int-e> mroman: I want foo with two items, one either 1 or 2, the other either a or b.
17:43:01 <int-e> (arguments, children, whatever)
17:43:02 <mroman> you want that as (foo "bar" 9 | 9 "bar")?
17:43:22 <mroman> you could still write it as (foo "bar" 9) | (foo 9 "bar")
17:43:26 <int-e> no, I'd want that as (foo "bar" 9) | (foo 9 "bar")
17:43:42 <int-e> but I don't want to multiply out cartesian products
17:43:43 <mroman> but 2 a itself is nothing
17:44:05 <int-e> (foo 1 a) | (foo 2 a) | (foo 1 b) | (foo 2 b)
17:45:21 <int-e> it might be handy to have a (#PERMUTE a b c)
17:57:34 <mroman> *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(<<1 | 2> | 3> <2 | 4>)" "(1 4)"
17:57:45 <mroman> gotta use < > for parantheses :D
17:58:48 <int-e> does <1 | 2 | 3> work, too?
17:59:47 <mroman> due to this left recursive thing
17:59:52 <mroman> parsec's not really good at
18:00:21 <int-e> you could try parsing that as <1 | <2 | 3>>
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18:00:58 <int-e> i.e. make it right-recursive, which generally works. there's also a manySepBy (or similar) combinator
18:01:29 <mroman> you shouldn't use OR in a schema anyway :)
18:01:50 <int-e> Sorry, I like ADTs (algebraic...) a lot.
18:02:03 <mroman> how do you do right recursive?
18:02:09 <mroman> parseFoo; char '|'; parseFoo;
18:02:12 <mroman> that won't work with parsec
18:02:26 <mroman> it will run out of memory and crash
18:02:59 <int-e> mroman: parseFoo = parseFooElem >> char '|' >> parseFoo <|> parseFooElem
18:03:47 <int-e> (well, it needs a 'try')
18:05:17 <int-e> (and it should probably be refactored so that the parseFooElem isn't done twice if the first alternative fails. I think I would use ... *looks up the actual name* sepBy1)
18:05:24 <mroman> *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(foo | bar <1 | 2> <7 | 8 | 9>)" "(bar 2 9)"
18:05:53 <mroman> 1 | 2 3 | 4 is the same thing as <1 | 2><3 | 4>
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18:06:25 <mroman> *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(foo | bar <1 | 2> <7 | 8 | 9>) | (no 0)" "(no 0)"
18:07:08 <mroman> you can't validate trees anyway I think
18:07:19 <int-e> mroman: As I said earlier, (foo 1 | 2 a | b) looks incomprehensible.
18:08:28 <mroman> you can't validate recursive stuff
18:08:58 <mroman> that would require definitons like uhm
18:09:18 <mroman> "node := (node #INTEGER <empty | node> <empty | node>)"
18:09:30 <vanila> it's bad that you're making up some complicated syntax to parse with haskell, just so you can validate (parse) some s-exps...
18:09:40 <int-e> #atree := (leaf #STRING) | (node #atree #STRING #atree)
18:09:43 <mroman> probably $node to not confuse it with the name thing
18:10:03 <mroman> vanila: why's that bad?
18:10:56 <mroman> that shouldn't be too hard to implement
18:16:04 <vanila> data ATree = Leaf String | Node ATree String ATree deriving Read
18:17:44 <int-e> data Wheel = Wheel | Reinvented Wheel
18:23:40 <mroman> *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "main ::= $tree tree ::= (leaf #INTEGER) | (node $tr
18:23:44 <mroman> ee #INTEGER $tree)" "(node (leaf 0) 1 (leaf 2))"
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18:25:34 <int-e> vanila: in any case, it's not sad. making wheels seems to be a good way to learn carpentry :)
18:25:55 <mroman> I always reinvent the wheel
18:25:59 <mroman> that's kinda my personality disorder
18:26:26 <mroman> is there yet a formal language to validate s-expressions?
18:27:06 <mroman> it's designed for S-Expressions
18:27:58 <mroman> I could even implement type parameters
18:30:14 <mroman> I'm planning on using RLON for some dataformats
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18:30:28 <mroman> and this way I can validate and parse them without writing specific parsers for each one
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18:35:14 <mroman> also from a scale on 1 to 10 i'm pretty high right now
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19:15:41 <mroman> everything I do is shit
19:23:35 <int-e> oh no, the dress has made it to xkcd (and I'm late looking at it)
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19:34:13 <int-e> the blue dress that some people think is white
19:34:38 <int-e> we discussed it yesterday? http://swiked.tumblr.com/post/112073818575/guys-please-help-me-is-this-dress-white-and
19:34:50 <int-e> (but you may have missed it)
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19:36:01 <mroman> or maybe blueish and brownish
19:36:09 <mroman> but what's the deal with that dress color?
19:36:28 <int-e> Well, apparently people genuinely disagree about its color.
19:37:08 <mroman> sure on the bottom there are some very clear blue stripes that could classify as white
19:37:11 <mroman> and some are dark as black
19:38:06 <mroman> but saying it's blue and black completely ignores that there's brown/gold in there?
19:38:07 <vanila> its an optical illusion
19:38:12 <int-e> http://motherboard.vice.com/en_ca/read/there-is-the-dress-and-only-the-dress has some images on top that may explain why
19:38:32 * gamemanj just read the logs, and now knows what the Friday XKCD was about. Thanks, it made no sense before...
19:38:37 <int-e> but I have not managed to coax the picture to look like the first one (where the dress does indeed look very much like a white one)
19:38:41 <b_jonas> it's appread in two webcomics already
19:38:50 <gamemanj> ...People disagree on the definition of colours.
19:38:59 <b_jonas> there's just not enough context on that image, because most of it is the dress
19:39:26 <Vorpal> It is just an optical illusion due to terrible white balancing.
19:39:38 <mroman> so all those three pictures have the same dress in it?
19:40:02 <mroman> if it were an optical solution a simple RGB check would tell you
19:40:13 <Vorpal> mroman, that link I haven't checked out.
19:40:15 <mroman> since optical illusions don't affect RGB values
19:40:35 <Vorpal> Just check the recent xkcd on the matter for example
19:40:47 <int-e> I understand the gold/black one; the material is dark, brownish. But given the bright environment, mistaking the dress for a white one is an unbelievable stretch to me. (the xkcd illustration is good, but the photo doesn't match the left version with the dark background)
19:40:53 <gamemanj> Terrible white balancing does affect RGB values-it's a post-processing filter.
19:42:39 <Vorpal> gamemanj, well, the terrible white balancing moved the apparently dark blue dress (I saw a link to the store that sold the dress somewhere) so it ended up just in the middle and ambiguous
19:42:39 <mroman> Then I don't give a shit about it until I have the actual dress in my hand
19:42:48 <int-e> (the matter is made worse because the dress fabric is very smooth, I bet highly reflective as fabrics go)
19:42:50 <mroman> RGB values don't match
19:42:55 <mroman> they have been tempered with
19:43:26 <Vorpal> mroman, in the photos at the top of the page? Yeah probably to illustrate the point
19:43:42 <Vorpal> Isn't the middle one the original?
19:44:12 <Vorpal> mroman, http://www.wired.com/2015/02/science-one-agrees-color-dress/
19:44:24 <Vorpal> And a billion other hits when just googling for "the dress"
19:45:21 <Vorpal> <int-e> I understand the gold/black one; the material is dark, brownish. But given the bright environment, mistaking the dress for a white one is an unbelievable stretch to me. (the xkcd illustration is good, but the photo doesn't match the left version with the dark background) <-- the middle dress does currently look white/brown to me, rather than blue, which it did when I first saw it. Can't flip it at will either.
19:45:30 <int-e> I've seen this (also crappy) photo of (allegedly) the same dress: http://media.tumblr.com/ec387ec0bb03230268a9e905d74097d9/tumblr_inline_nkebmcshcG1svicb3.jpg
19:46:24 <int-e> it's believable given how overexposed the "original" photo must be.
19:46:47 <Vorpal> Yes, that and terrible white balance
19:46:48 <int-e> Vorpal: not even in contrast with the black/white spotted chair in the background?
19:47:04 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/stichrot/
19:47:07 <Vorpal> http://media.tumblr.com/ec387ec0bb03230268a9e905d74097d9/tumblr_inline_nkebmcshcG1svicb3.jpg is blue
19:47:12 <mroman> I wish I still had this script :(
19:47:16 <int-e> Vorpal: mind, I see a light blue dress.
19:47:38 <int-e> Vorpal: the high reflectivity is rationalization.
19:47:42 <Vorpal> int-e, A white dress in blue light is what I see
19:47:53 <int-e> Vorpal: interesting.
19:47:59 <Vorpal> int-e, And I saw a blue dress in yellow light yesterday
19:48:33 <Vorpal> It is a god damn optical illusion, not more interesting than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grey_square_optical_illusion.PNG
19:48:39 <Vorpal> Both A and B are the same hue
19:48:46 <Vorpal> As shown in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Same_color_illusion_proof2.png
19:48:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Integral]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42066 * OriginalOldMan * (+2567) Created Integral
19:49:51 <int-e> Vorpal: I know all that. Maybe too well :)
19:50:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Integral]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42067&oldid=42066 * OriginalOldMan * (+41) Added Categories
19:51:31 <mroman> Anybody in here playing chess?
19:51:58 <gamemanj> ..."playing", as in in the current state of playing?
19:52:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42068&oldid=41936 * OriginalOldMan * (+15) Added Integral
19:52:47 <int-e> mroman: I know the rules ;)
19:53:27 <mroman> as in "sometimes plays it"
19:53:38 <mroman> I wanna get into chess a little bit
19:53:45 <mroman> curently I only know the rules
19:55:34 <Vorpal> mroman, I think zzo38 maybe? He did something with chess inspired games a couple of years ago at least
19:56:20 <int-e> Vorpal: The xkcd illustration works for me. But in the photo, the surroundings are always bright. So I haven't managed to see a white dress yet, except on the artificially white-balanced version.
19:56:49 * int-e shuts up (but for how long?)
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19:57:03 <Vorpal> The xkcd one is exaggerated to illustrate the point.
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19:59:06 <int-e> Hah. "The fact that a single image could polarize the entire Internet into two aggressive camps is, let’s face it, just another Thursday."
19:59:52 <vanila> its like that math problem
20:00:08 <vanila> http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/03/130312_SCI_FacebookMathQ.jpg.CROP.article250-medium.jpg
20:00:18 <vanila> (annoying and uninteresting)
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20:06:35 <int-e> Sorry, can't stop. I feel this article is quite informative (save the last sentence): http://www.wired.com/2015/02/science-one-agrees-color-dress/
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20:18:42 <Vorpal> mroman, int-e: This also explains the dress well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw0PlGpaqy4
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20:20:00 <FireFly> 'He even speculated, perhaps jokingly, that the white-gold prejudice favors the idea of seeing the dress under strong daylight. “I bet night owls are more likely to see it as blue-black,” Conway says.'
20:20:05 <Vorpal> FireFly, I linked that one just earlier
20:20:20 <FireFly> It'd be interesting to see what a survey would result in
20:20:28 <FireFly> Vorpal: oh, I guess I wasn't here then
20:22:31 <Vorpal> it is literally the first google hit for "the dress" right now...
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20:25:15 <mroman> does css3 have these thingies that can be resized?
20:25:31 <Vorpal> I'm sure you could use js for that?
20:25:58 <Vorpal> Static HTML with no scripts for the win
20:26:55 <Vorpal> Though that can be hard to find these days
20:27:01 <gamemanj> Why not go for Gopher, while you're on the slope to simplicity-then we're one step closer to finishing the Plan To Make Everyone Use Befunge Computers.
20:27:30 * gamemanj starts to cackle. It is very evil.
20:27:42 <Vorpal> gamemanj, talk to zzo38 for that, he runs a gopher server
20:27:48 <mroman> does resize work on phones?
20:27:53 <mroman> theres the resize css3 property
20:28:28 <Vorpal> I tested on website on my phone and tablet as well
20:28:35 <Vorpal> Though my site is very simple
20:28:45 <gamemanj> Vorpal:(on gopher) Yes, that's the server I found about Gopher on :) However, unfortunately the server says it's written in FreeBASIC...not good enough.
20:29:27 <Vorpal> I saw one in python a while ago
20:29:29 * gamemanj may have gone a little mad with befunge.
20:29:39 <mroman> but it's realy user unfriendly on phones :(
20:30:50 <Vorpal> mroman, what does the attribute do?
20:31:59 <mroman> Your browser will add a control at the bottom-right corner of the element
20:32:09 <Vorpal> And let you resize it? Okay
20:32:11 <mroman> which allows you to resize the element using drag and drop
20:32:17 <mroman> but it sucks on phones
20:32:26 <Vorpal> mroman, does it work on Opera Mini? Hehe
20:32:31 <mroman> it's not precise enough
20:32:34 <mroman> it works in google chrome
20:32:46 <mroman> but it's really hard to resize it correctly with your fingers
20:32:58 <mroman> so I'm using a combination of resize: vertical; overflow-y: scroll;
20:33:55 <Vorpal> I believe the bug reporting system at work allows resizing for example. Probably in JS thoug
20:34:34 <mroman> I think some browsers already had resizable elements before css3
20:34:41 <mroman> but usually just for textarea
20:37:10 <mroman> does css3 have a "expand on click"?
20:37:17 <mroman> that'd be better than scroll+resize actually
20:43:07 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude.
20:46:24 <mroman> Vorpal: http://mroman.ch/index.html
20:46:46 <mroman> you can match on input:checked + i + p#
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20:50:24 <mroman> although js is quite nice
20:50:34 <mroman> the comment system is javascript
20:50:40 <mroman> and it's quite cool that something like that exists
20:50:53 <mroman> you can just embed a little js snippet and your static site has a commenting system
20:51:51 <Vorpal> No it doesn't, unless you use an external site that has server side scripts
20:52:35 <gamemanj> Also, that "little js snippet" actually is just a loader for a VERY BIG script...
20:52:54 <Vorpal> Here is a fully static site: https://vorpal.se/
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20:56:38 <elliott> this is the dullest website :p
20:58:00 <gamemanj> Mind, ZZO38's website is even duller unless you have a network terminal and the Gopher RFC document...
20:58:17 <gamemanj> (and even then there's not much describing where to go)
20:58:58 <gamemanj> Vorpal at least has a decent index of projects :)
20:59:28 <Vorpal> <elliott> this is the dullest website :p <-- yes it is
21:00:00 <Vorpal> <gamemanj> Vorpal at least has a decent index of projects :) <-- I think I probably made some other stuff that is out there, and of course, a lot of unpublished stuff
21:00:29 <gamemanj> zzo38 has nothing as far as HTTP goes. "Please use the gopher service.",anyone?
21:01:04 <Vorpal> there are http proxies for gopher iirc
21:01:47 <gamemanj> That's what I used at first. Then I read the Gopher RFC, and then started work on a object-oriented language to compile to Befunge. (yes, those are related)
21:02:16 <gamemanj> 98, it needs the SOCK fingerprint.
21:02:29 <Vorpal> For object orientation??
21:02:46 <Vorpal> Which interpreter are you running it on?
21:03:19 <Vorpal> Hm I forget if efunge has SOCK
21:03:35 <Vorpal> Weird, is CCBI1 still around
21:04:02 <gamemanj> ...The archive is called: ccbi-2.1
21:05:04 <Vorpal> Looks like efunge is missing SOCK
21:06:52 <gamemanj> Currently the language is quite esoteric. Want to see a program which eats up all available RAM?
21:07:40 <gamemanj> In the "meant to be interpreted by a interpreter written in befunge" format or the "assembly-like" format?
21:08:06 <Vorpal> And the befunge code too
21:08:31 <gamemanj> ...Currently I'm still working on the language, so I'm using a testing interpreter written in Lua.
21:08:39 <Vorpal> gamemanj, I would like to see a functional language compiled to befunge, with closures and all that
21:09:13 <gamemanj> ...I'm probably not going to have closures, I'm trying to keep it REALLY simple.
21:09:33 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:09:38 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/index.html
21:09:50 <mroman> I has border radius right now
21:10:18 <gamemanj> But there's nothing stopping a interpreter(whichever language you want) being written to run on top of a interpreter(my language) written to run on a interpreter(befunge).
21:10:35 <gamemanj> mroman: Oooh, circular borders!
21:14:45 -!- rodgort has joined.
21:17:39 <gamemanj> Vorpal: Here's the instruction list: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/instructionlist.txt
21:17:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Integral]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42069&oldid=42067 * OriginalOldMan * (+6220) Added Fibonacci Number Program
21:19:07 <Vorpal> gamemanj, and you are compiling it to optimised befunge?
21:20:06 <gamemanj> Depends-again, this is all planned. For now, it's just being interpreted by a Lua interpreter while I work on making a decent language to use.
21:20:38 <gamemanj> I'm keeping the instructions simple so that when I'm done, it should be quick to get befunge output (compiled or interpreted)
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21:23:34 <Vorpal> @tell fizzie fungot is missing
21:24:12 <gamemanj> There's fnordbot, which is int-e's "temporary replacement".
21:24:13 <fnordbot> gamemanj: their way. " no you can't possibly, let out a wild whoop in major thirds, threw ford prefect, " it's dark," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the language. a towel, it says, " is big. you must come with me?" said ford, " you reckon, what's the problem? a sudden silence afterwards." " you just let the machines began to sink downwa
21:24:56 <Taneb> Vorpal, fungot is trapped in a house without internet
21:25:05 <Taneb> For at least two more weeks I think
21:25:50 <gamemanj> We are currently...fungotless. *dark evil thunderclouds magically appear*
21:26:48 <Vorpal> gamemanj, What prefix does it use?
21:27:10 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
21:27:12 <zemhill_> Vorpal: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
21:27:13 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
21:27:21 <gamemanj> ^bf ++++++++++[->++++++++++<].
21:27:38 <gamemanj> ^bf ++++++++++[->++++++++++<]>.
21:28:55 <gamemanj> ^bf ++++++++++[->++++++++++<]>+++++.<++++++++[->>++++<<]>>.<--------.+++++++++++++.
21:29:41 <gamemanj> ...Okay, so it doesn't respond to ^help, but it responds to bf.
21:30:38 <gamemanj> Time to [strikeout]steal[/strikeout] acquire a hello world program in Underload.
21:30:54 <gamemanj> Ah, this one on Esolang will do nicely.
21:31:32 <fnordbot> HiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHi ...too much output!
21:31:37 <fizzie> Vorpal: It's got an old copy of fungot.dat I gave int-e.
21:33:19 <fizzie> And Taneb's summary was correct. (Or technically the house will get internet in two days, but I won't be here to set it up for two weeks. (Great timing.))
21:34:03 <Vorpal> fizzie, where are you going?
21:34:48 <fizzie> Vorpal: Mountain View, Google HQ.
21:34:54 <Vorpal> fizzie, i experimented with the fish eye panorama feature in the google camera app yesterday, it wasn't too bad provided you didn't zoom in
21:35:10 <Vorpal> Because then the bad stitching showed up
21:35:29 <gamemanj> For now, at least we have fnordbot-WHAT??? Google HQ? ...really?
21:35:30 <fnordbot> gamemanj: more. " why," a voice said " i seem to be having tremendous difficulty in finding the floor. " what," said trillian, " but those of finely calculated the cumulative effect is this? all his heirs are now long dead, and this is frankie, " a simple one! " in a few seconds," he continued, " you just let the machines began to sink downward and to everyone else out there, the secret. at the moment. a slight hiss built into
21:36:01 <gamemanj> Is it just me or does that bot like to say "the machines began to sink downward"?
21:36:10 <fizzie> Vorpal: I haven't tried it yet. Maybe I should, now that I have a camera-equipped Android device.
21:36:43 <Vorpal> Thought it was hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
21:36:46 <gamemanj> No, the Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy.
21:37:01 <gamemanj> It's what int-e said, also "trillian", "ford prefect"???
21:37:25 <Vorpal> Then why the fuck did it claim to be irc
21:37:34 <fnordbot> Vorpal: because ford never learned to say his original purpose, which ford and was about to go for a walk to the bridge at that, i can tell. " you can't keep us out!" " what the hell am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to take you to the bridge at that, i can tell." " the mice were furious." " the day, arthur's mind. look at me: i design coastlines. a red star the size of a planet and they ask me to take you to the b
21:37:53 <Vorpal> Yeah definitely Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
21:38:06 <fnordbot> Selected style: Not really what you'd expect
21:38:24 <gamemanj> Not really what you'd expect is probably a big giveaway that it's a joke.
21:38:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, why doesn't ^help work though
21:38:44 <gamemanj> I have a style for fnordbot to use, but I'm not sure if it'll work.
21:38:44 <fnordbot> gamemanj:...?" " unfortunately, in a desperate that any man who can," a voice said " i seem to be having tremendous difficulty in finding the floor. " what," said trillian, " but those of finely calculated the cumulative effect is this? " the universe to it, you can't like it," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine," he said at last, " i don't know," said th
21:38:54 <gamemanj> ...Should've gone with "it"...
21:39:17 <gamemanj> ^help is a "defined command" or something...needs fungot's files to use.
21:39:32 <gamemanj> I don't know the exact details.
21:39:46 <gamemanj> (Or anything about how fungot works,really.)
21:40:40 <fizzie> Vorpal: Yes, it's not a built-in and the data file was too old.
21:41:29 <fizzie> Should have copied the current one, but had to jump through hoops due to lack of internet.
21:41:42 <gamemanj> Shouldn't it be possible to define it?
21:42:10 <fizzie> ^def help ul (Please define me.)
21:42:19 <fizzie> ^def help ul (Please define me.)S
21:42:46 <gamemanj> ^def help ul (Use ^bf for Brainf***, ^ul for Underload.)S
21:43:00 <fnordbot> Use ^bf for Brainf***, ^ul for Underload.
21:43:10 <fizzie> Yes, but that's owner-only.
21:43:51 <gamemanj> ...And come to think of it, this is int-e's bot, right?
21:44:15 <Vorpal> gamemanj, yes ^def is open, ^save is not
21:44:26 <Vorpal> ~/.znc/moddata/log $ du -sh
21:44:52 <Vorpal> The directory is massive, one log per channel per day
21:45:09 <gamemanj> ...Do you really need that big a log?
21:45:18 <gamemanj> ...When there's already channel logs?
21:45:45 <Vorpal> ^def help ul (^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool)S
21:45:56 <fizzie> Also, to elaborate, I think they call it the Googleplex or something.
21:46:00 <Vorpal> gamemanj, it logs all channels I'm not, not just #esoteric
21:46:11 <Vorpal> gamemanj, And I'm on like 80 channels over 10 networks
21:46:28 <Vorpal> gamemanj, probably closer to a hundred
21:46:49 <Vorpal> Still, need to do something with the logs
21:46:50 <gamemanj> I'm literally on 1 channel with my client set to alert me when fungot goes back online.
21:46:50 <fizzie> Logging all the channels you're *not* is pretty impressive.
21:47:17 <gamemanj> Well, Vorpal, you could always try gzip.
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21:47:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42070&oldid=42063 * Ypnypn * (+2457)
21:47:29 <Vorpal> fizzie, I'm on I meant
21:47:40 <Vorpal> gamemanj, step 1 would be to split it by year or channel
21:47:47 <Vorpal> by year to begin with, that is easier
21:47:54 <Vorpal> Because ls is taking ages in that directory
21:47:55 <gamemanj> ...Don't the channels already have logs for this?
21:48:36 <gamemanj> ...Well, maybe write a script which sorts them+clumps them into 1 file per year.
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21:49:59 <gamemanj> Vorpal: Do these logs run across decades?
21:50:57 <fizzie> Vorpal: I keep only the current year on the VPS, and the rest only locally. With "net/chan/YYYY-mm.log" filenames and a month per file.
21:51:05 <Vorpal> gamemanj, not on this host no, they just run since 2013, since I started using that bouncer back then
21:51:17 <Vorpal> fizzie, this is on my RPi
21:51:30 <Vorpal> gamemanj, I have older logs in different formats elsewhere, going back to mid 00s
21:51:37 <Vorpal> gamemanj, And before that I wasn't on IRC
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21:52:14 <Sgeo> My phone fell on the street snow and opened
21:52:24 <gamemanj> That generally isn't a good thing.
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21:52:50 <gamemanj> By "opened", what do you mean?
21:53:31 <Vorpal> Sgeo, you need an unbreakable phone. Like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ericsson_R310s
21:53:45 <Sgeo> gamemanj: the back and battery came off
21:53:54 <Sgeo> Snow got into the battery compartment and don't know where else
21:54:00 <gamemanj> ...That's not good, wait for it to dry.
21:54:07 <Sgeo> Right now have it opened and put silica gel packets on it
21:54:16 <Sgeo> How long should I wait?
21:54:22 <gamemanj> At least the battery came out *before* the phone got into the snow...
21:54:46 <gamemanj> Probably best to wait as long as you can.
21:54:48 <fizzie> Remember to not eat the silica gel when you're done.
21:54:51 <Sgeo> gamemanj: I'm not totally certain if it did or not
21:55:10 <gamemanj> Well, the phone's battery didn't pop out by itself.
21:55:24 <gamemanj> So it's likely it powered down before any water actually got in.
21:55:39 <gamemanj> (Not accounting for capacitors here, I know.)
21:55:41 <Sgeo> Also glad I didn't get run over
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21:56:04 <fizzie> Vorpal: "Silica gel, do not eat" was our stock phrase we used whenever the cat was eating something it wasn't supposed to be eating.
21:56:57 <Vorpal> Oh I need to update my znc
21:57:08 <zzo38> Do you mean even if it isn't silica gel?
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21:57:49 <fizzie> zzo38: Yes. In fact, I don't think the cat ever tried to eat silica gel.
21:58:26 <fizzie> Mostly just cardboard and paper stuff.
21:59:18 <fizzie> Sometimes headphone cables.
21:59:37 <b_jonas> Vorpal: how much time do your logs cover?
22:00:06 <b_jonas> maybe I should start logging irc if the logs are that small
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22:00:46 <b_jonas> gamemanj: yes, that's small
22:00:49 <gamemanj> For 2 years(okay, across 80 channels but whatever)
22:00:57 <fizzie> (I think I need to get to sleep, early flight to CA tomorrow.)
22:01:08 <Vorpal> b_jonas, as I said, on that computer, since 2013
22:01:19 <b_jonas> gamemanj: I work with videos, they've distorted my sense of size, sorry
22:01:38 <Vorpal> Let me ssh to the computer with my older logs
22:01:43 <gamemanj> b_jonas: I understand in the context of videos being big, they're videos.
22:02:10 <gamemanj> fizzie: I wish you well on your mission to do whatever it is you plan to do.
22:02:14 <b_jonas> gamemanj: some irc channels have a lot more traffic than this one
22:02:54 <gamemanj> ...This one has a decent amount of traffic whenever there's actually a chat going on. (When there isn't, then...)
22:03:37 <Vorpal> Or not, they are on an external HDD
22:03:40 <fizzie> gamemanj: Thanks. Though it's just a business trip. Google seems to want all new employees to be dazzled by their "main" campus for a week or two.
22:05:36 <b_jonas> gamemanj: come on, these days 2 GB of logs fits in the RAM and you can search it in a second
22:05:56 <zzo38> I don't have that much RAM though
22:06:15 <Vorpal> Really? My tablet has 2 GB RAM
22:06:37 <zzo38> Although I do have more than enough disk space, and they could be stored in a SQLite database in order to do search, too
22:06:39 <Vorpal> This old laptop has 4 GB RAM
22:06:56 <fizzie> Vorpal: Your RPi doesn't.
22:07:17 <Vorpal> fizzie, nor does my router
22:07:21 <fizzie> This phone's got 3, I think.
22:07:37 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
22:07:42 <fizzie> Didn't they put a gigabyte or something on the new RPi.
22:07:51 <zzo38> Yes, you could use PostgreSQL instead if you prefer, although I don't know how to write extensions for PostgreSQL, nor do I know about if it support such thing like recursive WITH clauses, views with triggers attached, etc
22:08:02 <fizzie> Vorpal: Nexus 6, the phablet one.
22:08:13 <Vorpal> How is it? As a phone?
22:08:24 <Vorpal> Also doesn't it have raw image support? Tried that yet?
22:08:32 <b_jonas> sure, this machine doesn't have 2G ram either, but I work with machines that have 8Gg or 16G
22:08:44 <fizzie> I kind of like it, but I'm a bit strange. Some people hate the form factor.
22:08:50 <Vorpal> fizzie, also what happened to your old N900?
22:08:53 <zzo38> I once asked before about name-mangling with DLL files, but as it turns out now, the DLLs I was using don't need name-mangling (the program disables name-mangling for the two functions it exports), and I was able to write it in C, after fixing the provided header file by adding a "#ifndef __cplusplus" area with typedefs in it.
22:09:29 <Vorpal> b_jonas, my desktop has 16 GB, my work laptop as well
22:09:37 <Vorpal> Though my next work laptop will have 32 GB
22:09:39 <fizzie> Vorpal: Holding my Finnish SIM card for the transition period. Not sure what to use it for after that.
22:09:44 <Vorpal> (Going to be replaced this summer)
22:10:25 <fizzie> The battery on the N900 is kind of dying.
22:10:50 <b_jonas> I don't need 2G to run an irc client of course
22:10:52 <Vorpal> Oh god, znc 1.6 needs C++11 which means GCC 4.8 not 4.6, which means I can't use distcc as I lack that compiler on my desktop
22:11:02 <Vorpal> So this will take a while
22:11:05 <fizzie> Although last I looked it was still easy to get replacements.
22:11:42 <Vorpal> fizzie, I use a Sony Xperia Z2 nowdays, works well. No raw image support currently thoug
22:11:54 <Vorpal> I hope they will add that in when it gets Android 5
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22:14:15 <fizzie> I picked a Nexus thing, since it seemed like the natural choice, given the circumstances.
22:14:43 <fizzie> Though it would probably be better to have a bit more device diversity among developers.
22:15:12 <Vorpal> fizzie, surely you have an array for testing the app with at work?
22:15:22 <Vorpal> Or do they expect you to use your private phone for that?
22:15:59 -!- sebbu has joined.
22:16:34 <fizzie> No, but the developers would be in the best position to fix the bugs if they encountered them in their day-to-day use.
22:17:29 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host).
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22:17:35 <fizzie> And this isn't entirely a private phone, in the sense that they paid for it.
22:18:00 <Vorpal> fizzie, I love the Nexus 10, sad they have discontinued big tablets in the Nexus series (since the battery in that thing is starting to die)...
22:18:15 <Vorpal> Means I'm going for something else next time
22:18:21 <Vorpal> Probably a Galaxy Tab or Note
22:19:00 <Vorpal> The xperia tablets are just 8"
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22:19:14 <Vorpal> Oh wait, that is the compact edition
22:19:54 <Vorpal> Is there no non-compact?
22:20:25 <zzo38> Did you read my latest session of level20.tex (and the previous one) yet? Do you like this? Is there a typographical error or something else that could be improved?
22:20:48 <fizzie> There's the Nexus 9. Though it's still pretty small.
22:23:20 <Vorpal> Yes, 10-11" is what I want
22:23:36 <fizzie> I have a 5, a 6, a 7v1 and a 7v2 nowadays. Though I only own the 6 and the 7v1, the other two are devel-device loaners.
22:23:40 <Vorpal> Yep, all the search results are Samsung
22:24:09 <Vorpal> On prisjakt.nu at least
22:24:16 <Vorpal> Which tends to be pretty good
22:25:18 <Vorpal> So it is Note, Tab or Tab Pro?
22:25:56 <Vorpal> Oh and a Gigaset device, whatever that is
22:26:05 <fizzie> I have no idea on those. Do they all do the pen thing, or is that just Note?
22:27:49 <Vorpal> Think that is just note
22:27:57 <Vorpal> I'm not a fan of Touchwiz though
22:28:19 <Vorpal> Not getting a Note one, because the pen will probably not work on a non-stock ROM
22:28:46 <Vorpal> Anyway I need to sleep, good night
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22:51:54 <ais523> I know #esoteric has seen it before
22:52:00 <ais523> but I'm going to link http://boundvariable.org/task.shtml again because it's so awesome
22:52:12 <ais523> (it kind-of hides the reason why it's awesome until you actually get some distance into the task, though)
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23:13:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42071&oldid=42070 * Ypnypn * (-24) /* Constants */
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23:33:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42072&oldid=42071 * Ypnypn * (+225) /* Constants */
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23:38:44 <zzo38> I have changed this puzzle http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.2
23:39:06 <zzo38> (Opponent now has 2x Sages of the Anima)
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