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00:19:56 <int-e> tswett: pretty annoyed, I think.
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00:21:27 <int-e> tswett: should "querj" be "quearj"?
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00:22:36 <tswett> Chug'c quoug yu hyutiloj.
00:22:41 <int-e> good, then I just don't understand the rule for some of the "i".
00:23:13 <tswett> I just stuck some "i"s in to make it more pronounceable.
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00:36:32 <int-e> tswett: Ockosyuurri yuh iea semgyumao ge nupo gikec ryupo gfug.
00:43:10 <tswett> You didn't actually decipher it without foreknowledge, did you?
00:45:39 <int-e> > let s = "FOI, OZUSGRI FEQU UMMEIOJ QUERJ OBOLIEMO VO YUH YU CIKEPO OMGYULORI YUM (U CRYUTFIGRI NEJYUHYUOJ BOLCYUEM EH) URYUOMOCO? YUG YUC YUMJOOJ CENO CELG EH CAVCIGYUGAGYUEM SYUHOL." in reverse $ sort $ map (\x -> (length x, head x)) $ group $ sort $ map (take 2) $ tails s
00:45:40 <lambdabot> [(15,"YU"),(6," Y"),(5," C"),(4,"O "),(4,"J "),(3,"UM"),(3,"UH"),(3,"UE"),(3...
00:46:04 <int-e> after I did that, things became much easier :P
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00:54:22 <int-e> tswett: actually I still don't know where the code comes from; I find lots of Futurama references, but they only seem to be using a special font.
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01:06:58 <izabera> let's play cat replacer! fun for all the family
01:08:00 <izabera> `run ed -s twolines <<< ,p
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01:18:41 <fizzie> We had a departmental christmas party game built around that, I think.
01:18:56 <fizzie> The twist was that after each thing, the commands used for that were removed from the system.
01:19:53 <izabera> i can play that for a while
01:20:19 <fizzie> I liked the spam game more.
01:20:20 -!- L8D has joined.
01:20:36 <fizzie> The goal was to write an email that gets the highest score from SpamAssassin.
01:21:34 <int-e> `` dd if=twolines status=none | tac | tac | sort
01:21:35 <HackEgo> dd: invalid status flag: `none' \ Try `dd --help' for more information.
01:21:47 <int-e> `` dd if=twolines | tac | tac | sort
01:21:48 <HackEgo> 0+1 records in \ 0+1 records out \ 13 bytes (13 B) copied, 0.000631 s, 20.6 kB/s \ first \ second
01:23:03 <izabera> oh i didn't read the first one D:
01:23:24 <HackEgo> dd (coreutils) 8.13 \ Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>. \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by Paul Rubin, David MacKenzie, and Stuart Kemp.
01:24:20 <izabera> well, just use 2>/dev/null :P
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01:27:10 <int-e> `` grep s twolines
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01:30:32 <izabera> `` ex -sc "1,$p|q" twolines
01:31:06 <int-e> oerjan: less acts like cat if the output is not a terminal
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01:31:38 * oerjan never tried running it that way, obviously
01:31:55 <int-e> `` cp twolines /dev/stdout
01:32:15 <int-e> `` mv twolines /dev/stdout
01:32:16 <HackEgo> mv: inter-device move failed: `twolines' to `/dev/stdout'; unable to remove target: Read-only file system
01:32:45 <int-e> head and tail will also work (since the file is short)
01:32:48 <ais523> what a detailed error message
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01:33:18 <oerjan> `` mv twolines /dev/fnord
01:33:19 <HackEgo> mv: inter-device move failed: `twolines' to `/dev/fnord'; unable to remove target: Read-only file system
01:33:32 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access /dev/fnord: No such file or directory
01:33:58 <oerjan> ais523: not very precise that last message
01:34:41 <oerjan> `` mv twolines /hackenv/twolines
01:34:41 <HackEgo> mv: `twolines' and `/hackenv/twolines' are the same file
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01:35:38 <fizzie> `run while read f ; do printf "%s\n" $f; done < twolines
01:35:39 <oerjan> i wonder how it gets to give "unable to remove target" when the target doesn't exist, given that it has to check whether they're the same file before it can try the removal.
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01:36:36 <izabera> `run mapfile < twolines; printf %s "${MAPFILE[@]}"
01:37:03 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mapfile: not found
01:37:18 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
01:37:26 <HackEgo> mapfile: mapfile [-n count] [-O origin] [-s count] [-t] [-u fd] [-C callback] [-c quantum] [array] \ Read lines from the standard input into an indexed array variable. \ \ Read lines from the standard input into the indexed array variable ARRAY, or \ from file descriptor FD if the -u option is supplied. The variable MAPFILE \
01:37:30 <int-e> `` lynx -source twolines 2>/dev/null
01:37:59 <int-e> `` lynx -source twolines
01:38:00 <HackEgo> \ Configuration file "/etc/lynx-cur/lynx.cfg" is not available.
01:38:36 <fizzie> `run perl -pe '' twolines
01:38:41 <oerjan> are you having a "write cat" competition
01:38:47 <int-e> `` lynx -cfg=/dev/null -source twolines
01:38:48 <HackEgo> \ Lynx file "/etc/lynx-cur/lynx.lss" is not available.
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01:41:59 <oerjan> this is _so_ messing up my obsessive logreading order
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01:43:06 <fizzie> `run pod2text --code twolines
01:43:27 <oerjan> darn you did both sed and perl already
01:43:37 <oerjan> i suppose those were too easy
01:44:25 <elliott> izabera: how do you know about all these obscure bash things
01:44:30 * int-e is mostly looking for things that act like cat on the specific given input, but aren't.
01:44:49 <elliott> weren't you just denying being a nerd earlier :p
01:45:55 <elliott> that very fact makes you 100% nerd
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01:46:15 <izabera> what if i had a non-nerd-o-meter?
01:46:43 <fizzie> `run interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 <(echo ',[.,]') < twolines # except if you start this way, there's going to be no end
01:46:51 <elliott> anything involving having meters that in some way correlate to your nerdiness is inherently nerdy
01:47:09 <elliott> fizzie: doesn't work for files with nul bytes!
01:47:14 <oerjan> `` cpp -o /dev/output twolines
01:47:16 <HackEgo> cc1: fatal error: opening output file /dev/output: Read-only file system \ compilation terminated.
01:47:31 <HackEgo> \ \ 2015-03-22 01:07 twolines Page 1 \ \ \ first \ second
01:47:37 <HackEgo> # 1 "twolines" \ # 1 "<command-line>" \ # 1 "twolines" \ first \ second
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01:50:20 <elliott> get random bytes from FILE
01:50:37 <elliott> just have to craft a file that makes it output files in order
01:50:39 <oerjan> `` xargs -n1 <twolines
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01:50:59 <izabera> elliott: i doubt it even exists :P
01:51:09 <elliott> well, it should for any given file
01:51:14 <elliott> and probably any given file of a certain line length?
01:51:28 <elliott> the question is whether the prefixes stay the same though
01:51:37 <elliott> as in whether the file for length n + 1 lines is an extension of the file for length n lines
01:51:41 <elliott> it would depend on the algorithm shuf uses
01:53:30 <fizzie> `run echo "~:1+!#@_," > /tmp/tmp.bf && interps/befunge/bef.bin /tmp/tmp.bf < twolines
01:53:50 <int-e> `` { nc -q1 -l -p 12345 < twolines > /dev/null & }; sleep 1; nc 127.0.0.1 12345 < /dev/null
01:54:36 <fizzie> `run socat STDIN STDOUT < twolines
01:55:02 <fizzie> (Thanks to nc for inspiration.)
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01:57:10 <izabera> `` gzip -c twolines | zcat
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02:01:59 <oerjan> `` rev <twolines | rev
02:02:29 <oerjan> (inspired by int-e's tacs)
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02:05:22 <izabera> i tried to play this in other channels and i was muted / banned / insulted / ignored
02:05:42 <elliott> thankfully there is no signal-to-noise ratio to ruin here!
02:05:48 <fizzie> `run bzip2 -c twolines | bzcat # in the spirit of trivial variations
02:07:03 <HackEgo> bash: whicg: command not found
02:07:10 <HackEgo> /usr/bin/xz \ /usr/bin/lzma
02:08:59 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input "$@" | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M
02:09:06 <elliott> `run rot13 twolines | rot13
02:09:32 <izabera> `run rot13 < twolines | rot13
02:10:23 <int-e> `` first() { echo first; }; second() { echo second; }; source twolines
02:10:51 <oerjan> int-e: i guess that's perfection
02:11:34 <oerjan> we're approaching a narcissist variant
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02:12:09 <int-e> there's also the destructive variant: true > twolines
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02:13:08 <elliott> I like useless use of cat :(
02:13:36 <izabera> zsh is way cool with its MULTIOS system
02:13:37 <int-e> It's funny that $(< foo) works
02:13:46 <int-e> I didn't know that.
02:14:38 <zzo38> Finally I got my domain name corrected
02:15:05 <oerjan> zzo38: that took a while
02:15:48 <elliott> your shell knowledge scares me
02:16:08 <elliott> multios sounds like some ancient precursor to multics
02:16:21 <int-e> . o O ( Ghost in a shell. )
02:16:49 <elliott> :>* is a good zsh program to ruin everything in your cwd
02:17:01 <elliott> it's a pointy smiley with an evil goatee
02:17:21 <oerjan> this shell does not sound cat-proof
02:17:37 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes it did take a while because they did not have time to fix it before, but now they did.
02:19:04 <oerjan> pikhq: how ghosty of you
02:19:25 <HackEgo> [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE]
02:20:00 <oerjan> i don't think there were any message characters at all
02:20:30 <oerjan> (irssi/putty seemed to think the line stopped there)
02:21:02 <oerjan> it doesn't seem to keep track of trailing spaces
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02:22:14 <pikhq> oerjan: That was just my terminal freaking out on me.
02:22:16 <int-e> IRC does not really support empty messages.
02:24:16 * oerjan cannot remember the irssi command to make a raw irc command (it's _not_ /raw)
02:24:17 <zzo38> If you try to send empty message you will get a 412 error message.
02:24:31 <zzo38> But you can add spaces and then it will work
02:26:44 <zzo38> At least in IRC client I am using it is /RAW to send raw data to the remote host, although I have never needed it and is probably unnecessary; it does absolutely no processing on the data if doing this and doesn't even add CRLF (you must add that by yourself)
02:27:53 <izabera> but writing a \n will be hard
02:28:44 <zzo38> Well, in the client I use, you can push CTRL+P before any character to insert that character raw into the input buffer, so you can do it that way
02:28:56 <izabera> the server will interpret it
02:29:52 <zzo38> Once it is sent it will, yes
02:30:24 <izabera> so yeah writing \n may be easy but receiving it is not
02:30:45 <oerjan> i recall irssi used to have a /quote version that didn't append \r\n but i cannot find it again
02:31:21 <oerjan> i managed to ping out because of it before i realized it wasn't the useful command
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02:31:45 <zzo38> (Also if the raw data contains a space, you will need to put a colon in front, because the client interprets the commands in the same way of the server interpreting commands.)
02:31:48 <oerjan> (presumably the text got prepended to the following PONG
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02:32:16 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes I would suppose that's why it does that
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02:33:43 <zzo38> Still, I have never needed /RAW because the default processing of commands in this client works good enough
02:35:18 <zzo38> The purposes of /RAW are things that never seem necessary, but are: Sending commands in lowercase, sending commands that start with a slash or space, prevent automatically changing the channel, and send other control characters that the server might use but aren't IRC commands (this probably never happens, but just in case)
02:35:38 <zzo38> Or, perhaps, sending mispaired CR/LF for testing purposes
02:36:44 <int-e> Or sending nonstandard commands (I have aliases NS = QUOTE NICKSERV and CS = QUOTE CHANSERV)
02:36:46 <zzo38> But, I don't know if anyone has ever needed such a thing at all.
02:36:59 <zzo38> int-e: No it isn't needed for the client I am using.
02:38:01 <zzo38> Also the IRC server already supports NS and CS commands directly.
02:38:34 <zzo38> If you type "NS INFO" then you can see the information of your account.
02:39:43 <int-e> well I'm not using your client
02:40:22 <zzo38> OK, although, the IRC server already can use NS and CS commands
02:40:27 <zzo38> At least, Freenode can.
02:40:38 <int-e> and irssi doesn't have its own builtin commands for ns/nickserv or cs/chanserv.
02:40:57 <int-e> (NICKSERV and NS are aliases on the server side)
02:41:27 <izabera> doesn't irssi send unknown commands as raw?
02:41:33 <zzo38> Yes, so the server already supports it; the client doesn't need its own builtin commands for such things
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02:45:14 <int-e> Yes but in *this* client, /quote is how you issue server side commands that the client doesn't support directly.
02:46:04 <zzo38> Still the client doesn't need it builtin if it has such thing as that too
02:46:38 <zzo38> Anyways NS and CS isn't a standard IRC command, but some IRC servers do add extra commands on for various reasons and it is sometimes useful to have.
02:49:08 <zzo38> Such as my own IRC adds a FLUSH command to cause it to flush the file buffer to output to the log files of the specified channel. Many add NS and CS, and some have additional services too. There is also a standard SUMMON command although as far as I know, nobody except me implements it.
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02:53:52 <zzo38> Private messages aren't logged; only permanent channels are logged, and the log files are public.
02:54:22 <int-e> izabera: say hello to clog and glogbot
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02:54:31 * oerjan _only_ logs private messages, mostly because #esoteric is already publically logged
02:54:56 <int-e> (they're the bots feeding the two public logs in the topic)
02:55:01 <shachaf> oerjan: so it sounds like you and zzo38 together log all messages
02:55:02 <elliott> izabera: (this channel is logged >_>)
02:55:03 <zzo38> Well, to log private message you send and receive, for your own purpose, is OK
02:55:06 <elliott> and google indexes the logs
02:55:24 <izabera> having server-wide logs is creepy
02:55:26 <zzo38> Although, in my case I am logging all public messages to permanent channels in public.
02:56:10 <zzo38> Still I don't (and don't want to) log private messages.
02:56:31 <oerjan> shachaf: if we only were logging the same server
02:57:04 <zzo38> So you can still seend a message to another client directly without being logged (I won't see the message either, unless I am the recipient).
02:58:10 <zzo38> (In such case you can still get logged by the sender and/or receiver of the message, but not by any other clients nor by the server.)
02:59:25 <fizzie> The IRCnet ircd still supports SUMMON, though it's not enabled by default, or in the IRCnet servers.
03:00:06 <fizzie> (It does the write(1)-style of thing of writing to the specified user's tty.)
03:00:30 <scarf> how does the ircd have perms to write to a tty?
03:00:36 <scarf> do they have to be on the local system?
03:00:37 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523.
03:00:44 <ais523> as in, the user has to be on the same system as the ircd
03:00:57 <fizzie> ais523: Yes, that's how it has always worked.
03:01:29 <ais523> probably not very useful for most modern uses of IRC, then
03:01:42 <fizzie> "The SUMMON command can be used to give users who are on a host running an IRC server a message asking them to please join IRC. This message is only sent if the target server (a) has SUMMON enabled, (b) the user is logged in and (c) the server process can write to the user's tty (or similar)."
03:01:49 <fizzie> Yes, it's very much of a relic.
03:02:08 <izabera> irc servers can write to the user's tty. take this, facebook chat
03:03:31 <fizzie> Giving them the proper sgid settings is also not part of the standard install, you have to manually arrange for that too.
03:03:36 <ais523> also requires IRC username to match UNIX username
03:03:51 <ais523> I guess you could SUMMON by username anyway
03:04:07 <fizzie> Yes, you give it a username.
03:04:37 <fizzie> But IRCnet is all dedicated servers, so it wouldn't be very useful.
03:05:21 <fizzie> (You don't have to be on the same server, you can "SUMMON user some.other.server" too.)
03:06:41 <fizzie> Also a relic: write(1). I wouldn't be surprised if these days it's major use was to be a mild annoyance at people who are trying to look at the man page for write(3) but neglect to specify the section.
03:13:44 <izabera> oh fuck not again this stupid tcl man page
03:15:47 <zzo38> On my own computer I use sounds to implement SUMMON, although when working on UNIX systems I do tend to tell them that they can just write to my tty or I can write to their tty, although the other people tend to prefer otherwise
03:17:11 <ais523> I have 6 virtual terminals open right now
03:17:18 <ais523> so people writing to them wouldn't know which one I wanted them to write to
03:17:25 <ais523> (and I'm currently not looking at any of them)
03:18:01 <zzo38> Which ones are you logged into though?
03:18:23 <zzo38> All of them or only some?
03:18:23 <ais523> they're running with my perms
03:18:34 <ais523> I have another 6 running from getty but I'm not logged into any of those
03:18:52 <ais523> (although I used one earlier to kill a process that was causing swapping)
03:18:54 <elliott> fizzie: this makes me want networked wall
03:19:01 <elliott> wait that was literally what that XP thing was
03:19:08 <elliott> back when you could pop up an alert box for anyone just by knowing their IP
03:19:15 <elliott> remember how microsoft released an operating system with that feature??
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03:20:08 <fizzie> I remember when they released Windows 3.11 for Workgroups, yes.
03:20:08 <zzo38> Well, the other method is if you have a IRC server then SUMMON can be used, and then can be implemented according to how it is wanted to implemented.
03:20:53 <zzo38> Or use the message send protocol
03:22:25 <ais523> elliott: you wouldn't even have to know their IP, sending to every IPv4 address in the address space is within the reach of modern computers/connectinos
03:22:39 <elliott> ais523: that involves knowing their IP though
03:22:45 <elliott> I mean that is a method of finding their IP
03:22:51 <elliott> okay this is an epistemological objection
03:23:00 <ais523> you still wouldn't know what their IP was even after the message had been sent
03:23:15 <elliott> but you would know their IP
03:23:17 <elliott> just not that it's theirs.
03:23:39 <fizzie> In the same way everyone knows all the IPs?
03:23:39 <elliott> okay let's stop this conversation right here before we get deep into semiotics
03:23:40 <ais523> I'm not sure I agree with your semantics there
03:23:56 <elliott> but we don't "know" all the IPv6s in a concrete sense. okay, this is incoherent
03:24:08 <ais523> just because there are too many of them?
03:25:15 <elliott> if we have an action to be performed on an IPv4 address
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03:25:18 <ais523> I mean, even 4 billion is a big number
03:25:24 <elliott> and we want that action to be performed on the address owned by a certain person
03:25:35 <elliott> uh, depending on what the action is
03:25:36 <ais523> even 3714444 is a big number (which is the number of tests my NH4 testsuite wants to run)
03:25:47 <HackEgo> 3714444: 2 2 3 3 3 163 211
03:25:51 <elliott> "come to know whether or not the address belongs to a pre-specified person" is not a valid action
03:26:05 <ais523> as long as it's a write-only action
03:26:20 <elliott> but the point is that we can't do the same for IPv6, because brute force isn't a viable strategy there; you need more information.
03:26:30 <elliott> ais523: right. IPv4 -> (), in a sense.
03:26:49 <elliott> or, even, IPv4 -> only things derivable from communicating with that address. oh, god, somebody stop me
03:26:54 <ais523> in a sense that allows some sort of side effect
03:27:18 <ais523> oh, a couple of days ago I met an F# fan
03:27:29 <ais523> but they weren't talking about F#, so it wasn't very informative in that respect
03:29:41 <elliott> anyway, the point is that Windows XP SP0 wouldn't have had as huge a spam problem if we had moved to IPv6-only before then
03:29:48 <elliott> draw whatever conclusions you wish
03:34:10 <ais523> new technologies tend to be widely deployed before people think about their security implications
03:36:09 <elliott> thank you, but I actually said draw, not type
03:36:15 <elliott> please do that again but as an image
03:36:41 <ais523> can't you just take a screenshot?
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03:43:20 <oerjan> elliott: i think an interpretive dance would be better hth
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03:44:09 <shachaf> oerjan: careful you might evoke the wrath of edwardk hth
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03:45:50 <oerjan> i am sorry i wasn't aware that edwardk hated interpretive dance
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03:49:56 <oerjan> also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAJBuGwQEHg
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04:06:20 <zzo38> 7-Zip can support many file formats, but I want to add also support of Hamster archive (without autodetection). I have successfully used 7-Zip to load .lzh files and .dmg files, as well as .rar files. (Probably hamarc is a better program to deal with Hamster archives, but still it can be useful to support many format in case someone has 7-Zip and try to load it)
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04:17:11 <fizzie> In the tube, there was a charity ad for something called the "Orbis Flying Eye Hospital".
04:17:15 <fizzie> I think I parsed it wrong.
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04:17:59 <fizzie> (Although flying isn't quite floating.)
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04:37:48 <Jafet> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/The_Original_Advertisement.jpg
04:48:18 <izabera> did you see github's unicorn?
04:51:50 <izabera> http://i.imgur.com/9ILmkTW.png here it is
04:52:39 <L8D> isn't that d. shaw's user icon?
04:52:57 <izabera> idk, i've seen it today for the first time
04:53:13 <L8D> there's some person in the same group as zed shaw who uses that pic on twitter
04:54:03 <izabera> they used it during their downtime today
04:54:39 <L8D> I don't think it was that unicorn in specific
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05:09:01 <oerjan> not to diminish his grief, but has anyone other than b_jonas heard about that Matoušek guy before
05:11:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Nadinepi * New user account
05:11:57 <ais523> any bets on whether or not that's a spambot account?
05:12:13 <ais523> it sort-of looks like it could be, but "pi" is a bit shorter than their normal surnames
05:12:40 <oerjan> i initially parsed it as 4 random cv syllables
05:12:58 <oerjan> which is something a spambot might also do
05:13:32 <ais523> hasn't hit the abuse log yet
05:13:40 <oerjan> ais523: you will be sorry when she posts her magnificent circular language
05:14:00 <oerjan> or possibly elated, it's that magnificent
05:14:24 <oerjan> shachaf: ME AM PLAY LINGUIST
05:14:30 <shachaf> What is a circular language?
05:14:47 <oerjan> shachaf: i dunno but anyone named pi surely knows how to make one
05:15:02 <shachaf> oerjan: You reminded me of elementary school English class, where they taught us that you double the second consonant in the "-ing" form of a word when you have a word of the form CVC
05:15:08 <shachaf> For instance, run->running
05:15:31 <shachaf> I have no idea if this rule is legitimate. It surely has exceptions, and at least this differs between US and UK English.
05:15:53 <shachaf> Anyway I probably haven't thought about the c/v thing since then.
05:16:13 <ais523> shachaf: the normal rule is that you have to double the consonant if it'd affect the pronunciation of the last vowel in the word
05:16:15 <oerjan> i've been rereading the language construction kit recently
05:16:19 <ais523> e.g. "runing" would have a long "u"
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05:16:39 <shachaf> I didn't like that class very much.
05:16:55 <shachaf> What do you do for e.g. "cancel"?
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05:16:56 <oerjan> shachaf: you forgot the hth how can edwardk bot impersonate you if you keep changing
05:17:22 <shachaf> oerjan: where did you hear about that twh
05:18:24 <oren> travelling, sinning, fapping... but it doesn't work for eating or jumping
05:18:45 <oerjan> <shachaf> What do you do for e.g. "cancel"? <-- develop a US/UK split, imo
05:20:07 <ais523> shachaf: "cancelling", "travelling" in UK english
05:20:42 <oren> Canadian english tends to be halfway between the two
05:22:03 <oren> hmm, so p, n, and l tend to double while t and d don't
05:22:26 <oren> no wait, adding does
05:22:58 <oren> screw it english has no damn rules
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05:24:23 <ais523> oren: "add" has two d's already
05:24:23 <oren> OH. it's sort of phonetc
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05:24:57 <oren> see, rapping has a short vowel while raping has a long vowel
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05:25:46 <oren> So if the word has a long vowel like eat, there is no double.
05:26:56 <oren> consider hearing versus herring
05:27:50 <oren> bite biting, blit blitting
05:28:09 <oren> holy shit my world is changed]
05:29:05 <oren> shachaf that is a compund word though. ear ring
05:30:02 <shachaf> you'll be earring from my lawyer
05:30:08 <oren> which is why cupboard isn't cubberd
05:31:17 <oren> if someone is runing they are clearly carving runes
05:34:12 <oren> anyway to me "Nadinepi" looks like "na-di-ne-pi"
05:34:57 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: where did you hear about that twh <-- check the logs hth
05:35:16 <shachaf> oerjan: a quick search with /last didn't find it hth
05:36:29 <oerjan> now if i only kept logs
05:37:03 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: 20:32 <edwardk> one of these days i'll write a shachaf bot that takes random text and puts hth on the end and i,i at the start at random intervals throughout
05:37:14 <oerjan> I THINK I'VE FOUND THE CULPRIT HTH
05:38:03 <shachaf> that works better if you pronounce j like jack
05:38:44 <shachaf> jack pronounces j like y, though
05:39:00 <oerjan> <oren> anyway to me "Nadinepi" looks like "na-di-ne-pi" <-- that's equivalent to what i said hth
05:41:51 <oren> tar -xvzf songs.tgz
05:43:20 <oren> xkcd claims tar commands are hard to remember but i know them well
05:44:49 <oren> What I don't like is that I don't know how to run ssh and scp in the same terminal
05:46:10 <zzo38> When I am using tar I just use pipes with tar though
05:49:47 <oren> zzo38: is there a way to tar at this end and make a pipe to the other computer?
05:50:04 <oren> and then run tar -x at the other end
05:51:04 <zzo38> Yes you can use netcat
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05:52:49 <lambdabot> ENVA 220520Z 16005KT 130V200 9999 -SN FEW013 BKN032 M00/M03 Q1012 RMK WIND 670FT 19015KT
05:53:07 <oerjan> WHY IS THERE SNOW OUTSIDE
05:53:36 <oerjan> (ok it's melting, but still...)
05:53:43 <oren> you're in scandinavia in march hth
05:54:21 <oren> there is snow outside here too
05:55:17 <lambdabot> CYYZ 220500Z 30016KT 15SM FEW030 M06/M14 A3014 RMK SC1 SC TR SLP215
05:55:55 <oerjan> pesky bragging canadians
05:56:40 <lambdabot> KSJC 220553Z 29005KT 10SM BKN200 14/10 A3014 RMK AO2 SLP207 T01440100 10222 20144 51013
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05:57:27 <oerjan> pesky bragging californians
05:58:45 <lambdabot> LLBG 220550Z 27012KT 9999 FEW040 16/06 Q1019 NOSIG
06:02:45 <oerjan> pesky bragging californian jews
06:03:59 <oerjan> i wasn't sure whether to leave in the californian
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06:11:46 <Sgeo> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ceekars-4d-headphones-for-vr-games-movies-music why is this a thing
06:11:57 <Sgeo> this should not be a thing, this should be done in software afaik
06:12:42 <oerjan> from this and xkcd we deduce that it will become immensely popular
06:12:44 <oren> your ears have two channels... why does any douns system have more than two channels
06:13:15 <oren> how the hell did I spell sound that badly
06:14:13 <Sgeo> oren: well, in theaters, it's hard to make ear A not hear what is intended for ear B
06:14:20 <oerjan> oren: it makes sense in a room with several listeners but not in headphones i think
06:15:05 <oren> Sgeo: that would suggest you should only have one channel
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06:18:17 <oren> or are you suggesting the four channels use synced waves to cancel out the left channel at the right ear and cancel the right channel at the left ear?
06:20:16 <Sgeo> I have no idea. I guess I'm imaging several surrounding channels used to fake positions poorly, as an imitation of what can be done with true 2 channel audio
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06:21:02 <oren> Hmm... yeah that might work. I'm glad I own earbuds though.
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06:21:49 <oren> Theatres should put headphone jacks on the seats like on an airplane
06:22:51 <Sgeo> Why does that word look so weird
06:23:40 <oren> because the word imagine breaks the "e makes vowels long" rule
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06:30:00 <oren> hold on, what is up with the word poor? sometimes when I say it it rhymes with door, and sometimes with boor.
06:31:15 * oerjan has no idea how boor is pronounced
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06:36:06 <oren> lol. go to this page and click on the play buttons to annoy people
06:36:09 <oren> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_vowel_chart_with_audio
06:38:04 <oren> like "dude, wtf" "AAHH UUHH OOHH EEE" "come on, stop it!" "AYYY OOUU AWWW"
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07:12:47 <myname> oren: are you singing system of a down songs?
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08:07:19 <lambdabot> git clone git://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot.git
08:07:49 <oerjan> > let (a,g) = System.Random.random (System.Random.mkStdGen 4) in a :: Int
08:07:51 <lambdabot> No instance for (System.Random.Random t0)
08:07:51 <lambdabot> arising from the ambiguity check for ‘g’
08:07:51 <lambdabot> The type variable ‘t0’ is ambiguous
08:08:15 <oerjan> most ridiculous failure of type inference ever?
08:15:09 <ais523> :t System.Random.random
08:15:10 <lambdabot> (Random a, RandomGen g) => g -> (a, g)
08:15:26 <oerjan> > let (a,_) = System.Random.random (System.Random.mkStdGen 4) in a :: Int
08:15:47 <ais523> oerjan: I don't believe the type of System.Random.random has any implication that the types of a and g are in any way connected
08:16:02 <ais523> which explains both the results you show there
08:16:25 <oerjan> the problem is that g is _clearly_ of type StdGen in both cases
08:17:04 <oerjan> the type of _that_ is not polymorphic at all. so why does whether it is named or not affect whether the rest types?
08:17:51 <oerjan> it does affect what the _value_ of g is.
08:19:12 <oerjan> (this was an SO question btw)
08:19:51 <ais523> but Haskell's types aren't meta-polymorphic, in that if you have a variable of type g, that determines whether it's also of type h for any type h
08:21:34 <ais523> if I have a function that I know outputs a value of type JComponent
08:21:44 <ais523> that doesn't let me determine whether the output is, say, of type JFrame
08:21:59 <ais523> whereas, in Haskell, if a function outputs a StdGen, I know it's a StdGen and nothinge lse
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08:54:46 <b_jonas> oerjan: I dunno, but people keep asking questions about computational geometry on irc and other forums, and these questions are getting more and more relevant these days just like how machine vision is getting more relevant, so I think it can't hurt if at least the mathematically inclined people hear about him.
08:57:55 <b_jonas> oren: sure, you can use ssh somecomputer tar cC somedir . | tar xv
08:58:26 <b_jonas> but be careful because the shell will reinterpret that command on the other machine, so you have to quote some characters two or three levels
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12:45:42 <fizzie> shachaf: Re the CVC + double-consonant + -ing theory, mix -> mixxing?
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12:50:44 <fizzie> Or in general with 'w' in the end. (paw, row, saw, sew, tow.)
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15:13:37 <olsner> boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes
15:14:13 <boily> olsner: no problem. always at people's service.
15:14:20 <HackEgo> Jumbo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
15:14:45 <oren> is django that python CGI thing?
15:15:00 <boily> hellolsner, helloren.
15:15:00 <ais523> boily: you broke the streak
15:15:12 <ais523> olsner being in all the django quotes was hilarious
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15:15:32 <boily> oren: it's (probably) the most popularest python web framework.
15:15:47 <ais523> clearly you should do Python websites with twisted
15:16:12 <ais523> what would be less appropriate
15:16:16 <ais523> numpy? that's arguably more appropriate though
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15:16:27 <ais523> as well as less likely to be used by mistake
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15:16:33 <olsner> fwiw, I've never used django, but have done things with twisted
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15:16:50 <oren> I'm only really familiar with PHP/zend, PHP/codeigniter and Perl/abomination written by dad
15:16:59 <boily> I did stuff with django. it was interesting, but I prefer pyramid
15:17:03 <ais523> I've "used" twisted in the sense of working from existing code without understanding it
15:17:05 <boily> (twisted is just abhorrent.)
15:17:13 <ais523> and just copying lines of code and experimenting until things worked
15:17:22 <ais523> therefore, statistically speaking
15:17:29 <ais523> it's likely to be the worst code I've written in the past 5 years or so
15:17:46 <shachaf> fizzie: I never said this rule was reliable. I think I found it suspicious even then in 3rd grade or whenever it was when I hardly spoke any English.
15:18:01 <ais523> are there any reliable rules in English?
15:18:11 <ais523> "single letters pluralize with apostrophe-s" perhaps
15:18:18 <ais523> that one has to be taught because it's so different from everything else
15:18:22 <shachaf> fizzie: Some people might argue that x really stands for ks in this case, and that w isn't quite a consonant since it sort of forms a diphthong.
15:18:27 <ais523> and only affects 26 words, so…
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15:18:45 <shachaf> I don't pluralize with apostrophes, in general.
15:18:51 <ais523> shachaf: nobody does in almost any case
15:18:54 <ais523> that's why the letters are weird
15:19:00 <oren> I was taught to use names for letters
15:19:03 <shachaf> If it would be ambiguous I quote with an apostrophe in on both sides, as in "'a's".
15:19:06 <ais523> (probably because 'a' to 'as', 'i' to 'i's just doesn't work)
15:19:30 <ais523> apostrophe both sides could work, I guess
15:19:36 <oren> aes bees cees dees ees efs gees
15:19:37 <ais523> (ofc, the plural of "I" is actually "we")
15:20:27 <ais523> YAELI: you start with a sequence of letters of your choice, then you can only apply standard English tense formation rules to it
15:20:34 <ais523> well, pluralizing, noun→verb, and so on
15:20:47 <ais523> whether this can be TC rather depends on how absurd the rules are
15:21:01 <ais523> shachaf: \Sigma_{i \in us}, surely?
15:21:29 <ais523> I'm just used to the use of i as a loop variable
15:21:39 <oren> also H's is supposed to be "aitches".
15:22:01 <shachaf> all the cat's are out of the bag
15:22:12 <ais523> huh, given the context
15:22:21 <ais523> I interpreted "cat's" as the pluralization of the UNIX command cat
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15:22:58 <ais523> (because the plural of the animal is "cats", and because "cat" the command can sensibly be written in tt-font, and the single letters are sensibly interpreted as tt-font too)
15:23:39 <shachaf> If you're using a different font you don't need to disambiguate.
15:23:56 <oren> but it is biguated by context
15:24:32 <ais523> what principle are you removing the "am-" prefix on?
15:24:53 <ais523> it's not like "co-" or "un-" which in #esoteric prefix can be cancelled on another "co-" or "un-" respectively
15:25:02 <oren> hydrous anhydrous
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15:25:30 <ais523> and there aren't any prefix-changing prefixes involved
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15:26:02 <oren> ais523: the N undergoes a labialization to M because of the B
15:26:20 <ais523> hmm, I'm not used to "anb" to "amb" but I can believe it
15:27:13 <ais523> oren: I'm not convinced that that ever had an an- prefix
15:27:25 <oren> I am not aware of any words with "nb" cluster anyway
15:27:48 <ais523> there have to be lots, surely
15:27:52 * ais523 greps /usr/share/dict/words
15:28:40 <ais523> we don't say "umbreakable"
15:29:03 <boily> fungot: do you umbreak?
15:29:03 <fungot> boily: ah...... use what you like
15:29:13 <boily> fungot: thanks! umbreakable it is, then!
15:29:14 <fungot> boily: yay. no more than any other oo system i've seen outperform sisc reliably by more than an order of magnitude
15:29:52 <oren> ais523: I'm having trouble distinctly saying unbreakable without it being un *glottal stop* breakable
15:30:25 <ais523> I have 61 "unb-" words, 15 "umb-" words
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15:30:49 <ais523> and the "umb-" words are things like "umbrella" where the root seems to contain the m and b together
15:31:19 <oren> Oh. example symbiosis
15:31:34 <oren> with syn + biosis
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15:32:13 <b_jonas> There's also the question whether when "n" is turned to the labiodental nasal [M] in eg. "information", it should be transcribed as "n" or "m".
15:32:30 <b_jonas> As in, when it turns to "m" like in "embiggen", it's usually written as "m".
15:32:53 <ais523> b_jonas: the first "n" in "information" is definitely pronounced as an "n" for me
15:33:19 <b_jonas> ais523: I pronounce it as a labiodental nasal, that is, at the same place of articulation as the [f]: with the lower lips and upper teeth
15:33:23 <boily> symphony is the canonical labiodental example.
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15:33:30 <ais523> boily: I definitely don't
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15:33:37 <b_jonas> the question is whether that is more similar to "n" or "m".
15:33:38 <boily> ais523: wikipedia does.
15:33:51 <ais523> I guess it depends on accent a lot
15:34:11 <b_jonas> boily: but is that a modified "n" etymologycally?
15:34:15 <oren> um.. i'mma say it should be written as whichever it is in source language
15:34:48 <b_jonas> oren: that applies if it's a greek or latin borrowing as a whole, but what about new words with the in- prefix?
15:36:17 <oren> hmm... infertile, inflame infect... seems like 'nf' is how you write such clusters
15:37:44 <ais523> why would you change "in-" before "f"? "f" is a vowel
15:38:00 <b_jonas> ais523: what? "f" is a consonant
15:38:12 <ais523> b_jonas: you can hold an "f" indefinitely
15:38:14 <b_jonas> ais523: and for the same reason why you usually change it to "m" before a "p"
15:38:16 <ais523> you can't do that with true consonants like "b"
15:38:29 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, because the "f" is a fricative, the "b" is a plosive
15:38:30 <ais523> (actually I think the normal term is "semi-vowel")
15:38:33 <oren> ais523: f is a hissing noise between lower lip and upper teeth
15:38:55 <b_jonas> ais523: "s" is a fricative too, which is why you can hold "s" indefinitely too, or at least as long as you're out of breath
15:39:36 <b_jonas> as long as you're _not_ out of breath
15:39:40 <ais523> quite a lot of apparent consonants can be held
15:39:46 <ais523> "l", "r", "p" at a stretch
15:39:53 <oren> 'synchronous' changes it to /ŋk/
15:40:15 <ais523> there's also something in the "g"/"j" space that can be held but it's not exactly either letter
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15:40:33 <ais523> probably the Chinese "zh" actually
15:40:46 <b_jonas> oren: yes, before a "k" or "g" the "n" usually changes to a "ng" sound
15:41:03 <oren> the chinese zh is /ts/ iirc
15:41:05 <ais523> "m" and "n" can be held; "kh" can be; "r" can be
15:41:24 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, the [ʃ] and [ʒ] sounds are fricatives (they work almost the same as [s] and [z]) and thus can be held indefinitely
15:41:25 <ais523> oren: I thought it was the second half of an English "j" (the first half is a "d")
15:42:14 <b_jonas> ais523: the [n] has a so called "release" which you can do only once and not hold, and is similar to the release of the [b], and this is preceded by a nasal sound
15:42:41 <ais523> b_jonas: is it possible to not do the release at all?
15:42:45 <b_jonas> ais523: the English j is very similar or the same as a [dʒ]
15:42:49 <ais523> I guess I can get a [n] to trail off
15:43:02 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, but then people will think you're French, and _then_ it counts as a vowel
15:43:05 <ais523> b_jonas: so now you can explain to me what a Hungarian "gy" is
15:43:26 <ais523> it sounds similar to "j" to a Brit, but it definitely isn't exactly the same
15:43:30 <b_jonas> ais523: the Hungarian "gy" is a plosive, it's like a "d" or a "g" but it's articulated somewhere between the two
15:43:49 <ais523> b_jonas: huh, I think I can pronounce that
15:43:52 <ais523> and it does sound a lot like "j"
15:43:54 <b_jonas> it's a plosive so it also has a hold and a release, but you put the tongue between the two
15:44:14 <b_jonas> ais523: but be careful, there's probably two or three different plosives like that, depending on where you put your tongue
15:44:39 <b_jonas> ais523: http://www.madore.org/~david/misc/linguistic/ipa/ is a good resource, though it's not complete, so it doesn't tell everything
15:44:39 <ais523> I normally don't care that much about pronouncing foreign languages without an accent
15:44:44 <ais523> just, about pronouncing them intelligibly
15:44:59 <ais523> also, isn't David Madore an esolanger?
15:45:14 <ais523> inventor of Unlambda, apparently
15:48:05 <b_jonas> what that writeup doesn't explain is how the vowels work
15:48:14 <b_jonas> there's a blog entry somewhere that explains part of that, but not completely
15:48:26 <b_jonas> however, the consonants you asked about are in here
15:49:20 <b_jonas> ais523: anyway, the point is, [ʒ] is a fricative, which means you can hold it forever, just like [z], but you put the tongue to a slightly different place.
15:50:33 <b_jonas> and if you're speaking some Slavic languages, you can produce not two but like four or five different fricative variants that are all velar (which means your tongue is pushed against the top of your mouth) like [z] and [ʒ]
15:50:35 <oren> ʒ is voiced version of english "sh"
15:50:50 <b_jonas> but I've no idea how to pronounced all the different versions of those, or how to hear the difference between them
15:51:26 <ais523> b_jonas: huh, I don't put the tongue to the top of my mouth for [z]
15:51:43 <ais523> the main differentce between it and [ʒ] is the position of my teeth
15:52:04 <b_jonas> ais523: you put it on the sides of the palate
15:52:17 <b_jonas> and argh, yes, it's not called "velar" but "palatal" or something
15:52:20 <ais523> I put it a bit behind my teeth
15:52:36 <b_jonas> or maybe it's called something different, let me look in that article I linked to
15:52:51 <b_jonas> that doesn't even mean anything
15:53:43 <shachaf> velar vs. uvular fricative is difficult for me to distinguish
15:54:16 <oren> alveolar versus dental is hard for me, uvular and velar are pretty easy, because uvular makes me choke
15:55:03 <b_jonas> whatever, all that stuff apart from labials ([p]), dentals ([t], [θ]), labiodentals ([f], [ɱ]) are somewhere inside your mouth, impossible to see where, and I can't follow which is where
15:55:07 <oren> or did you means distinguish upone hearing it
15:56:26 <b_jonas> labial is obvious, except at the start of words, because you have to close your lips for it. dental is obvious because if you do it wrong you spit salvia. labiodental is obvious because you have to put your teeth towards your lips while your lips aren't closed.
15:56:50 <b_jonas> the rest is complicated because yuo have to do stuff with your tongue that's invisible without X-rays or something
15:57:10 <b_jonas> mind you, people _have_ done x-ray photos for this for educational purposes
15:57:26 <b_jonas> yuo don't see it in everyday life
16:00:08 <b_jonas> most children learn the rest by reverse-engineering what they hear, but only up to the equivalence classes used in their particular language
16:02:17 <b_jonas> it's a bad system. phonetics should be taught open-source rather than everyone having to reverse-engineer compatible ways to produce the sounds
16:03:25 <b_jonas> and I mean, taught open source to most people, not just the few that have speaking or hearing disabilities
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16:06:34 <b_jonas> for reference, http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2013-05-06.2138.voyelles-cardinales.html is the entry that tells part of the story about vowels
16:06:55 <tswett> `run bash -c $(sed 's//echo /' twolines)
16:06:56 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression \ bash: -c: option requires an argument
16:07:20 <tswett> `run bash -c $(sed -e 's//echo /' twolines)
16:07:21 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression \ bash: -c: option requires an argument
16:07:41 <tswett> I guess I don't understand how sed works.
16:07:59 <elliott> `run bash -c $(sed -e 's/^/echo /' twolines)
16:08:02 <b_jonas> HackEgo: try double quotes around the $()
16:08:08 <elliott> `run bash -c "$(sed -e 's/^/echo /' twolines)"
16:08:35 <b_jonas> `sed -e 's/^/echo /' twolines
16:08:36 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 2: unknown command: `''
16:08:41 <b_jonas> `run sed -e 's/^/echo /' twolines
16:09:30 <tswett> echo No output. > twolines
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17:01:33 <Melvar> < oren> but it is biguated by context – It’s actually ambi- + agere.
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18:36:38 <izabera> `run sed -e 's/^/echo /e' twolines
18:40:11 <boily> there's an “e” switch for sed regexps'?
18:41:21 <izabera> it basically passes the whole line to system()
18:41:33 <izabera> it's also a valid command in gnu sed
18:41:48 <izabera> `` sed e <<< 'echo hurr durr durr'
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18:48:15 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dog: not found
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18:50:12 <HackEgo> bin/danddreclist \ bin/define \ bin/delquote \ bin/delvs \ bin/dis86 \ bin/dontaskdonttelllist \ bin/don'taskdon'ttelllist
18:50:47 <boily> hmm... sounds ominous. what's a vs?
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19:13:13 <int-e> the code looks like an old version of https://github.com/L8D/delvs/ before it acquired socket operations
19:13:40 <int-e> (it's a brainfuck with some extra operations)
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19:42:17 <int-e> Or it would be if the code for skipping to the closing ] were correct.
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20:24:09 <oerjan> `` quote django | tail -3
20:24:10 <HackEgo> 884) <oerjan> `pastequotes django <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5404 <olsner> I'm still in all of them :( <olsner> someone else get quoted saying django please \ 1101) <metasepia> `addquote \item <elliott\_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst par
20:24:19 <oerjan> `` quote django | tail -2
20:24:20 <HackEgo> 1101) <metasepia> `addquote \item <elliott\_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ <olsner> elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes. \ 1115) <boily> I love django.
20:25:09 <boily> hellørjan. reminiscing about the djangiraffe madness?
20:25:13 <elliott> `addquote <olsner> boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes
20:25:19 <HackEgo> 1236) <olsner> boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes
20:25:55 <boily> olsner: apparently 87,5% was too low. enjoy your eternal acute djangoness hth
20:26:08 <oerjan> boily: belloily. just logreading. i think elliott may be evil hth
20:27:09 <oerjan> ...i should know that one.
20:27:27 <oerjan> olsner: 's ok just remember 8 is a lucky number
20:29:45 <boily> I don't believe in elliott's evilness. maybe he ranks at about 3 or 4 millioerjans, which is statistical background noise.
20:30:03 <FireFly> `` cat dog # this exists, right?
20:34:37 <boily> rep, as in lifting?
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20:45:36 <oerjan> @tell ais523 i think as and is work fine as is hth
20:45:58 * oerjan may or may not actually mean that
20:51:01 * boily is verily tempted to mapole oerjan hth
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20:53:48 <oerjan> @tell ais523 un- is a germanic prefix while an- is latin the labialization only applies to the latter hth
20:54:15 <oerjan> @tell ais523 no wait, greek.
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20:55:52 <oerjan> @tell ais523 except it doesn't because greek actually uses a- before consonants. latin in- works that way, though.
20:56:38 <oerjan> @tell ais523 also ambiguous doesn't actually have an am- prefix.
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21:00:36 <boily> @tell ais523 yes it does. consider biguity.
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21:02:52 <oerjan> @tell boily avocabulant isn't a word hth
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21:06:30 <oerjan> @tell ais523 looking at wiktionary, the amb- in ambassador is cognate to ambi- but the path it took is really convoluted.
21:06:52 <oerjan> @ask int-e did you fix the bug where lambdabot drops messages if you get too many twh
21:09:23 <int-e> I know of that bug.
21:10:03 <oerjan> oh you're still there. my attempt to force my sleeping rhythm later has failed in such a way that my mind thinks it's after midnight already.
21:10:04 * int-e is looking at the fallout from ghc-7.10.1
21:10:48 <int-e> its dependencies, mostly
21:16:08 <oerjan> int-e: well the bug hampers my ability to harass^Wadvise ais523 in absentia tdnh
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21:17:30 <int-e> patience, the bug has been there for years, surely it can wait a few weeks more
21:18:13 <int-e> now why does lambdabot depend (indirectly though) on shake...
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21:22:15 <int-e> oerjan: how do you feel about applying https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot/blob/79c694230952a8c560e7032b458b42f26661827a/patches/unlambda-0.1.3-ghc-7.10.patch to http://hackage.haskell.org/package/unlambda and making a new release?
21:23:33 <oerjan> i'm actually never been the maintainer for that package despite it descending from my code
21:24:06 <olsner> ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django
21:24:26 <oerjan> `addquote <olsner> ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django
21:24:28 <HackEgo> 1237) <olsner> ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django
21:24:54 <int-e> oerjan: well there is no maintainer, so you can likely claim it for yourself easily :P
21:24:59 <oerjan> @tell boily you are right i'm more evil than elliott hth
21:25:17 <oerjan> int-e: except i don't have a github account hth
21:25:28 <elliott> oerjan: that quote should include me adding the previous one to the qdb, ideally
21:25:35 <elliott> in the spirit of django quotes being unfunny and confusing
21:25:38 <int-e> oerjan: the unlambda thing isn't on github anyway
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21:29:14 <oerjan> elliott: but then i'd have to actually find where you did that.
21:29:45 <elliott> oerjan: you can reconstruct it from the previous quote
21:32:27 <oerjan> `` quote django | tail -2
21:32:29 <HackEgo> 1236) <olsner> boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes \ 1237) <olsner> ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django
21:34:06 <int-e> oerjan: hmm, mokus has an unlambda repository on github... I wonder...
21:35:07 <oerjan> `addquote <elliott> `addquote <olsner> boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes [...] <olsner> ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django
21:35:09 <HackEgo> 1237) <elliott> `addquote <olsner> boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes [...] <olsner> ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django
21:35:15 <oerjan> `` quote django | tail -2
21:35:16 <HackEgo> 1236) <olsner> boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes \ 1237) <elliott> `addquote <olsner> boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes [...] <olsner> ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django
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22:32:20 <oerjan> <Melvar> < oren> but it is biguated by context – It’s actually ambi- + agere. <-- oh. so _both_ parts of amgiguous and ambassador are cognates...
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22:34:20 <oerjan> @tell ais523 in fact Melvar mentioned the two parts "ambiguous" come from, and they're cognate to the two parts of "ambassador" :P
22:36:18 <oerjan> @tell ais523 essentially both words are originally from something meaning "moving around"
22:37:59 <oerjan> @tell ais523 oh and the -m- never was a -n-, as far back as proto-indoeuropean.
22:43:25 <oerjan> int-e: you'll tell ais523 what he missed, right?
22:44:15 <oren> Consider it biguated.
22:46:52 <oerjan> <oren> syn phony <-- actually συμφωνία has a μ in greek hth
22:47:40 <oren> Consider it membered
22:48:02 <oerjan> membered, for the first time
22:48:31 <oerjan> member. not even once.
22:49:31 <oren> why do people derstand these simple words?
22:50:41 <oerjan> because they're so azing
22:51:28 <Melvar> (re- + memor, under + stand)
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23:10:40 <zzo38> When trying to unzip on a Linux system I got "-bash: /net/home/black/bin/unzip: No such file or directory"
23:11:00 <zzo38> But now how am I going to fix it please?
23:14:47 <oerjan> aha, so that's why cpressey's webpage system is called chrysoberyl
23:15:11 <int-e> zzo38: huh, so what is that unzip file?
23:16:02 <int-e> zzo38: I would guess that the file exists, but perhaps is referring to an ld.so or shared library that doesn't.
23:16:52 <zzo38> That's what I thought
23:17:03 <zzo38> Since someone told me before thing like that is caused
23:17:21 <zzo38> I found where I can download the binaries, but how to figure out what libc is needed?
23:17:56 <int-e> I thought most linux distributions ship some kind of unzip
23:18:25 <int-e> other ideas ... does jar understand compressed zip files?
23:18:51 <fizzie> I think most .jars are compressed zip files.
23:19:10 <zzo38> Yes, .jar is also a ZIP archive
23:19:17 <fizzie> At least I've always assumed it's all DEFLATE.
23:19:24 <zzo38> Although the system I am using doesn't have jar either
23:19:25 <int-e> fizzie: I have not looked in over a decade; they used to be uncompressed.
23:19:37 <Melvar> Aren’t jars just zips with a certain metadata file or files inside?
23:19:55 <fizzie> Melvar: Yes, but you don't need to compress a zip.
23:20:00 <int-e> Melvar: the idea was to use jar to unpack the zip file.
23:20:03 <fizzie> (As in, there's a "store" compression method.)
23:20:55 <zzo38> It doesn't have 7-Zip either; I checked that too
23:21:24 <fizzie> int-e: FWIW, a randomly chosen .jar (/usr/share/tomcat7/lib/tomcat-util.jar) was compressed.
23:22:01 <zzo38> The computer I am trying to use is x86_64 GNU/Linux and 3.2.0-77-generic #114 Ubuntu
23:22:20 <Melvar> Does the compression method affect anything germane to the idea of using jar to decompress an arbitrary zip?
23:22:46 <fizzie> Melvar: If all .jar files are uncompressed, the jar tool might not support any compression methods.
23:22:59 <fizzie> Melvar: I mean, hypothetically. They're compressed, and it does.
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23:27:43 <int-e> oerjan: look at this wonderful hack: http://sprunge.us/VcXA?sh ;-)
23:30:49 <zzo38> Well, I tried one, and it didn't work
23:31:14 <int-e> what distribution are you using anyway?
23:31:46 <zzo38> It says "Linux beryllium 3.2.0-77-generic #114-Ubuntu SMP Tue Mar 10 17:26:03 UTC 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux"
23:31:56 <zzo38> I have no administration access
23:32:32 <int-e> okay, but you can still fetch a .deb for unzip... which are ar files containing tgz files, the binary will be in data.tar.gz (or is it tgz...)
23:32:32 <zzo38> So, I cannot use the package manager.
23:33:12 <fizzie> And you can use dpkg-deb to unpack debs without having any special access.
23:33:13 <int-e> that should have a better chance of working than looking for random binaries
23:35:04 <int-e> then you have a working unzip binary?
23:36:34 <zzo38> I still don't know what to do though, yes I do have dpkg-deb but don't know where to find the package or what need to be done with it
23:37:45 <fizzie> For Ubuntu, you can get them at http://packages.ubuntu.com/
23:37:53 <fizzie> You can do "lsb_release -a" to figure out the Ubuntu version.
23:37:56 <int-e> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=unzip should find the .deb file; onoce unpacked it'll give you an unzip binary
23:38:32 <fizzie> int-e's link has list of versions of unzip for each release.
23:39:48 <fizzie> The page for a particular version has a "Download unzip" table for architectures, and Ubuntu's name for x86_86 is "amd64".
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23:40:34 <fizzie> And dpkg-deb's (rather poor) user interface is "dpkg-deb -x unzip.deb some-directory-name", to extract the package files into some-directory-name, and afterwards you should find a binary in some-directory-name/usr/bin/unzip.
23:42:34 <zzo38> Which one is the correct package though?
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23:45:03 <fizzie> If you mean which one out of "lucid", "precise", "trusty", "utopic", "vivid" (holy moly, are they up to V already?), lsb_release -a should have a 'codename' field matching one of them. Unless it's a no-longer-supported version of Ubuntu.
23:46:45 <zzo38> I didn't know lsb_release command
23:47:27 <int-e> the kernel version suggests 12.04
23:48:40 <zzo38> Yes, that's the response I got when I troed lsb_release -a
23:49:39 <fizzie> There are probably many ways to determine current Ubuntu version. lsb_release is a "standard" tool from the Linux Standard Base, so it can work on other distributions, too. I don't know how widely supported it is.
23:49:47 <int-e> (s/version/metadata/, the compilation time probably has the most information contents in there)
23:50:47 <int-e> works in debian (no surprise there), doesn't work in Arch. I wonder about Gentoo...
23:51:58 <int-e> cat /etc/issue is another idea
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23:57:36 <zzo38> OK I figured out how to unpack it now
23:58:31 <zzo38> I did it by: dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile unzip_6.0-4ubuntu2.3_amd64.deb | tar xO ./usr/bin/unzip > ~/bin/unzip
23:59:21 <zzo38> (I used apt-get download to download the package first; the webpage says using aptitude and I looked at the man page so I figured out now)