00:04:53 -!- Koen_ has joined. 00:16:12 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:16:13 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Changing host). 00:16:13 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:16:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:16:23 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:17:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 00:17:40 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:19:56 tswett: pretty annoyed, I think. 00:20:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:21:27 tswett: should "querj" be "quearj"? 00:22:03 Yeah, it should. 00:22:09 -!- heroux has joined. 00:22:36 Chug'c quoug yu hyutiloj. 00:22:41 good, then I just don't understand the rule for some of the "i". 00:23:13 I just stuck some "i"s in to make it more pronounceable. 00:23:45 nasty. 00:32:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:32:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:34:06 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:34:06 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 00:36:32 tswett: Ockosyuurri yuh iea semgyumao ge nupo gikec ryupo gfug. 00:43:10 You didn't actually decipher it without foreknowledge, did you? 00:43:19 I did. 00:45:39 > let s = "FOI, OZUSGRI FEQU UMMEIOJ QUERJ OBOLIEMO VO YUH YU CIKEPO OMGYULORI YUM (U CRYUTFIGRI NEJYUHYUOJ BOLCYUEM EH) URYUOMOCO? YUG YUC YUMJOOJ CENO CELG EH CAVCIGYUGAGYUEM SYUHOL." in reverse $ sort $ map (\x -> (length x, head x)) $ group $ sort $ map (take 2) $ tails s 00:45:40 [(15,"YU"),(6," Y"),(5," C"),(4,"O "),(4,"J "),(3,"UM"),(3,"UH"),(3,"UE"),(3... 00:46:04 after I did that, things became much easier :P 00:53:18 -!- iamevn has joined. 00:54:22 tswett: actually I still don't know where the code comes from; I find lots of Futurama references, but they only seem to be using a special font. 01:03:07 -!- Koen_ has left. 01:06:58 let's play cat replacer! fun for all the family 01:07:04 `run cat twolines 01:07:05 first \ second 01:07:11 `run sed '' twolines 01:07:14 first \ second 01:07:17 `run awk 1 twolines 01:07:18 first \ second 01:08:00 `run ed -s twolines <<< ,p 01:08:01 first \ second 01:08:19 your turn 01:09:23 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:18:41 We had a departmental christmas party game built around that, I think. 01:18:56 The twist was that after each thing, the commands used for that were removed from the system. 01:19:46 well that's fun 01:19:53 i can play that for a while 01:20:10 `run tr a a < twolines 01:20:12 first \ second 01:20:19 I liked the spam game more. 01:20:20 -!- L8D has joined. 01:20:26 which one? 01:20:36 The goal was to write an email that gets the highest score from SpamAssassin. 01:20:41 LOL 01:21:34 `` dd if=twolines status=none | tac | tac | sort 01:21:35 dd: invalid status flag: `none' \ Try `dd --help' for more information. 01:21:41 sniff. 01:21:47 `` dd if=twolines | tac | tac | sort 01:21:48 0+1 records in \ 0+1 records out \ 13 bytes (13 B) copied, 0.000631 s, 20.6 kB/s \ first \ second 01:21:59 status=none 01:23:03 oh i didn't read the first one D: 01:23:16 so that's not gnu dd? 01:23:23 `dd --version 01:23:24 dd (coreutils) 8.13 \ Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later . \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by Paul Rubin, David MacKenzie, and Stuart Kemp. 01:23:30 mmhhhh 01:23:31 just dated 01:23:34 oh 01:23:37 8.13 01:24:20 well, just use 2>/dev/null :P 01:25:38 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 01:25:44 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:26:12 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:26:37 `m4 twolines 01:26:44 first \ second 01:27:10 `` grep s twolines 01:27:11 first \ second 01:27:28 -!- idris-bot has joined. 01:27:54 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:28:16 `` cut -f1- twolines 01:28:17 first \ second 01:28:46 -!- L8D has joined. 01:29:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:29:56 `` less twolines 01:30:00 first \ second 01:30:15 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 01:30:32 `` ex -sc "1,$p|q" twolines 01:30:40 `` which less 01:30:44 first \ second 01:30:44 ​/usr/bin/less 01:31:06 oerjan: less acts like cat if the output is not a terminal 01:31:08 ic 01:31:08 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:31:38 * oerjan never tried running it that way, obviously 01:31:55 `` cp twolines /dev/stdout 01:31:56 first \ second 01:32:15 `` mv twolines /dev/stdout 01:32:16 mv: inter-device move failed: `twolines' to `/dev/stdout'; unable to remove target: Read-only file system 01:32:19 ah. 01:32:41 wow 01:32:45 that's cool 01:32:45 head and tail will also work (since the file is short) 01:32:48 what a detailed error message 01:33:16 -!- GeekDude has joined. 01:33:18 `` mv twolines /dev/fnord 01:33:19 mv: inter-device move failed: `twolines' to `/dev/fnord'; unable to remove target: Read-only file system 01:33:30 `ls /dev/fnord 01:33:32 ls: cannot access /dev/fnord: No such file or directory 01:33:58 ais523: not very precise that last message 01:34:24 `` pwd 01:34:24 ​/hackenv 01:34:41 `` mv twolines /hackenv/twolines 01:34:41 mv: `twolines' and `/hackenv/twolines' are the same file 01:34:44 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:35:38 `run while read f ; do printf "%s\n" $f; done < twolines 01:35:39 i wonder how it gets to give "unable to remove target" when the target doesn't exist, given that it has to check whether they're the same file before it can try the removal. 01:35:39 first \ second 01:36:22 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 01:36:22 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:36:36 `run mapfile < twolines; printf %s "${MAPFILE[@]}" 01:36:36 first \ second 01:37:02 `mapfile --help 01:37:03 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mapfile: not found 01:37:11 it's a bash builtin 01:37:15 ah right 01:37:17 `help mapfile 01:37:18 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 01:37:24 `` help mapfile 01:37:26 mapfile: mapfile [-n count] [-O origin] [-s count] [-t] [-u fd] [-C callback] [-c quantum] [array] \ Read lines from the standard input into an indexed array variable. \ \ Read lines from the standard input into the indexed array variable ARRAY, or \ from file descriptor FD if the -u option is supplied. The variable MAPFILE \ 01:37:30 `` lynx -source twolines 2>/dev/null 01:37:35 No output. 01:37:48 works for me :P 01:37:59 `` lynx -source twolines 01:38:00 ​ \ Configuration file "/etc/lynx-cur/lynx.cfg" is not available. 01:38:36 `run perl -pe '' twolines 01:38:38 first \ second 01:38:41 are you having a "write cat" competition 01:38:47 `` lynx -cfg=/dev/null -source twolines 01:38:48 ​ \ Lynx file "/etc/lynx-cur/lynx.lss" is not available. 01:38:53 oerjan: yess :D 01:39:32 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:41:59 this is _so_ messing up my obsessive logreading order 01:42:52 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:43:06 `run pod2text --code twolines 01:43:13 first \ second 01:43:27 darn you did both sed and perl already 01:43:37 i suppose those were too easy 01:43:46 `strings twolines 01:43:47 first \ second 01:44:25 izabera: how do you know about all these obscure bash things 01:44:30 * int-e is mostly looking for things that act like cat on the specific given input, but aren't. 01:44:35 i live in #bash 01:44:43 oh okay 01:44:49 weren't you just denying being a nerd earlier :p 01:45:15 lainerd 01:45:32 i'm 37% nerd, ok 01:45:40 i have a nerd-o-meter 01:45:55 that very fact makes you 100% nerd 01:46:06 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:46:15 what if i had a non-nerd-o-meter? 01:46:24 `` which recode 01:46:25 No output. 01:46:36 `` which dos2unix 01:46:37 No output. 01:46:43 `run interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 <(echo ',[.,]') < twolines # except if you start this way, there's going to be no end 01:46:44 first \ second 01:46:51 anything involving having meters that in some way correlate to your nerdiness is inherently nerdy 01:46:58 dammit 01:47:09 fizzie: doesn't work for files with nul bytes! 01:47:14 `` cpp -o /dev/output twolines 01:47:16 cc1: fatal error: opening output file /dev/output: Read-only file system \ compilation terminated. 01:47:22 oops 01:47:29 `pr twolines 01:47:31 ​ \ \ 2015-03-22 01:07 twolines Page 1 \ \ \ first \ second 01:47:36 `` cpp -o - twolines 01:47:37 ​# 1 "twolines" \ # 1 "" \ # 1 "twolines" \ first \ second 01:47:44 ok not that :P 01:47:57 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:48:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:48:52 `` shuf twolines 01:48:53 second \ first 01:48:54 `` shuf twolines 01:48:55 second \ first 01:48:58 `` shuf twolines 01:48:58 first \ second 01:49:01 yay 01:50:07 izabera: ooh ooh 01:50:11 can you set shuf's seed 01:50:20 --random-source=FILE 01:50:20 get random bytes from FILE 01:50:21 yesss 01:50:37 just have to craft a file that makes it output files in order 01:50:39 `` xargs -n1 first \ second 01:50:47 yay 01:50:50 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 01:50:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:50:59 elliott: i doubt it even exists :P 01:51:09 well, it should for any given file 01:51:11 for arbitrary size files 01:51:14 and probably any given file of a certain line length? 01:51:17 er, count of lines I mean 01:51:28 the question is whether the prefixes stay the same though 01:51:37 as in whether the file for length n + 1 lines is an extension of the file for length n lines 01:51:41 it would depend on the algorithm shuf uses 01:53:30 `run echo "~:1+!#@_," > /tmp/tmp.bf && interps/befunge/bef.bin /tmp/tmp.bf < twolines 01:53:31 first \ second 01:53:50 `` { nc -q1 -l -p 12345 < twolines > /dev/null & }; sleep 1; nc 127.0.0.1 12345 < /dev/null 01:53:51 first \ second 01:53:58 oh nice 01:54:28 `` nl twolines | cut -f2- 01:54:30 first \ second 01:54:36 `run socat STDIN STDOUT < twolines 01:54:38 first \ second 01:55:02 (Thanks to nc for inspiration.) 01:55:12 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:57:04 you're all disgusting 01:57:10 `` gzip -c twolines | zcat 01:57:12 first \ second 01:57:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:57:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:57:27 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:00:41 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:00:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:00:56 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:01:43 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:01:59 `` rev first \ second 02:02:29 (inspired by int-e's tacs) 02:03:54 -!- L8D has joined. 02:04:06 `` echo "$( first \ second 02:05:22 i tried to play this in other channels and i was muted / banned / insulted / ignored 02:05:42 thankfully there is no signal-to-noise ratio to ruin here! 02:05:47 :D 02:05:48 >_> 02:05:48 `run bzip2 -c twolines | bzcat # in the spirit of trivial variations 02:05:49 first \ second 02:07:02 `` whicg xz lzma 02:07:03 bash: whicg: command not found 02:07:07 `` which xz lzma 02:07:10 ​/usr/bin/xz \ /usr/bin/lzma 02:08:58 `cat bin/rot13 02:08:59 print_args_or_input "$@" | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M 02:09:06 `run rot13 twolines | rot13 02:09:07 twolines 02:09:32 `run rot13 < twolines | rot13 02:09:34 first \ second 02:09:51 this counts for you :P 02:10:23 `` first() { echo first; }; second() { echo second; }; source twolines 02:10:24 first \ second 02:10:34 haha 02:10:51 int-e: i guess that's perfection 02:11:10 int-e: well, close. 02:11:34 we're approaching a narcissist variant 02:11:52 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:12:09 there's also the destructive variant: true > twolines 02:12:18 -!- L8D has joined. 02:12:27 useless use of true :P 02:13:04 oh, so it is 02:13:08 I like useless use of cat :( 02:13:15 `` < twolines 02:13:16 No output. 02:13:20 < twolines works in zsh 02:13:24 ah 02:13:25 yeah 02:13:36 zsh is way cool with its MULTIOS system 02:13:37 It's funny that $(< foo) works 02:13:46 I didn't know that. 02:14:38 Finally I got my domain name corrected 02:15:05 zzo38: that took a while 02:15:48 your shell knowledge scares me 02:16:08 multios sounds like some ancient precursor to multics 02:16:21 . o O ( Ghost in a shell. ) 02:16:49 :>* is a good zsh program to ruin everything in your cwd 02:17:01 it's a pointy smiley with an evil goatee 02:17:01 :>* 02:17:12 haha 02:17:21 this shell does not sound cat-proof 02:17:37 oerjan: Yes it did take a while because they did not have time to fix it before, but now they did. 02:18:37 02:18:38 02:19:04 pikhq: how ghosty of you 02:19:24 `unidecode 02:19:25 ​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] 02:20:00 i don't think there were any message characters at all 02:20:30 (irssi/putty seemed to think the line stopped there) 02:20:35 test 02:20:50 oh scratch that 02:21:02 it doesn't seem to keep track of trailing spaces 02:22:09 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:22:14 oerjan: That was just my terminal freaking out on me. 02:22:16 IRC does not really support empty messages. 02:22:31 i suppose 02:24:16 * oerjan cannot remember the irssi command to make a raw irc command (it's _not_ /raw) 02:24:17 If you try to send empty message you will get a 412 error message. 02:24:27 zzo38: ok 02:24:31 But you can add spaces and then it will work 02:26:00 ok it was /quote 02:26:44 At least in IRC client I am using it is /RAW to send raw data to the remote host, although I have never needed it and is probably unnecessary; it does absolutely no processing on the data if doing this and doesn't even add CRLF (you must add that by yourself) 02:27:04 nice 02:27:53 but writing a \n will be hard 02:28:26 indeed 02:28:44 Well, in the client I use, you can push CTRL+P before any character to insert that character raw into the input buffer, so you can do it that way 02:28:56 the server will interpret it 02:29:52 Once it is sent it will, yes 02:30:24 so yeah writing \n may be easy but receiving it is not 02:30:45 i recall irssi used to have a /quote version that didn't append \r\n but i cannot find it again 02:31:21 i managed to ping out because of it before i realized it wasn't the useful command 02:31:23 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:31:45 (Also if the raw data contains a space, you will need to put a colon in front, because the client interprets the commands in the same way of the server interpreting commands.) 02:31:48 (presumably the text got prepended to the following PONG 02:31:49 ) 02:32:03 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 02:32:16 oerjan: Yes I would suppose that's why it does that 02:32:48 -!- int-e has left ("CATATONIC CHICKEN"). 02:32:48 -!- int-e has joined. 02:33:43 Still, I have never needed /RAW because the default processing of commands in this client works good enough 02:35:18 The purposes of /RAW are things that never seem necessary, but are: Sending commands in lowercase, sending commands that start with a slash or space, prevent automatically changing the channel, and send other control characters that the server might use but aren't IRC commands (this probably never happens, but just in case) 02:35:38 Or, perhaps, sending mispaired CR/LF for testing purposes 02:36:44 Or sending nonstandard commands (I have aliases NS = QUOTE NICKSERV and CS = QUOTE CHANSERV) 02:36:46 But, I don't know if anyone has ever needed such a thing at all. 02:36:59 int-e: No it isn't needed for the client I am using. 02:38:01 Also the IRC server already supports NS and CS commands directly. 02:38:34 If you type "NS INFO" then you can see the information of your account. 02:39:43 well I'm not using your client 02:40:22 OK, although, the IRC server already can use NS and CS commands 02:40:27 At least, Freenode can. 02:40:38 and irssi doesn't have its own builtin commands for ns/nickserv or cs/chanserv. 02:40:57 (NICKSERV and NS are aliases on the server side) 02:41:27 doesn't irssi send unknown commands as raw? 02:41:33 Yes, so the server already supports it; the client doesn't need its own builtin commands for such things 02:45:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:45:11 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 02:45:14 Yes but in *this* client, /quote is how you issue server side commands that the client doesn't support directly. 02:46:04 Still the client doesn't need it builtin if it has such thing as that too 02:46:38 Anyways NS and CS isn't a standard IRC command, but some IRC servers do add extra commands on for various reasons and it is sometimes useful to have. 02:49:08 Such as my own IRC adds a FLUSH command to cause it to flush the file buffer to output to the log files of the specified channel. Many add NS and CS, and some have additional services too. There is also a standard SUMMON command although as far as I know, nobody except me implements it. 02:51:56 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 02:52:45 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:52:46 -!- scarf has joined. 02:52:55 you shouldn't log 02:52:59 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:53:52 Private messages aren't logged; only permanent channels are logged, and the log files are public. 02:54:02 that's creepy 02:54:22 izabera: say hello to clog and glogbot 02:54:27 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:54:30 hello clog and glogbot 02:54:31 * oerjan _only_ logs private messages, mostly because #esoteric is already publically logged 02:54:56 (they're the bots feeding the two public logs in the topic) 02:55:01 oerjan: so it sounds like you and zzo38 together log all messages 02:55:02 izabera: (this channel is logged >_>) 02:55:03 Well, to log private message you send and receive, for your own purpose, is OK 02:55:06 and google indexes the logs 02:55:14 that's ok 02:55:24 having server-wide logs is creepy 02:55:26 Although, in my case I am logging all public messages to permanent channels in public. 02:55:52 oh server-wide 02:56:10 Still I don't (and don't want to) log private messages. 02:56:31 shachaf: if we only were logging the same server 02:57:04 So you can still seend a message to another client directly without being logged (I won't see the message either, unless I am the recipient). 02:58:10 (In such case you can still get logged by the sender and/or receiver of the message, but not by any other clients nor by the server.) 02:59:25 The IRCnet ircd still supports SUMMON, though it's not enabled by default, or in the IRCnet servers. 03:00:06 (It does the write(1)-style of thing of writing to the specified user's tty.) 03:00:30 how does the ircd have perms to write to a tty? 03:00:36 do they have to be on the local system? 03:00:37 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523. 03:00:44 as in, the user has to be on the same system as the ircd 03:00:57 ais523: Yes, that's how it has always worked. 03:01:29 probably not very useful for most modern uses of IRC, then 03:01:42 "The SUMMON command can be used to give users who are on a host running an IRC server a message asking them to please join IRC. This message is only sent if the target server (a) has SUMMON enabled, (b) the user is logged in and (c) the server process can write to the user's tty (or similar)." 03:01:49 Yes, it's very much of a relic. 03:02:08 irc servers can write to the user's tty. take this, facebook chat 03:03:31 Giving them the proper sgid settings is also not part of the standard install, you have to manually arrange for that too. 03:03:36 also requires IRC username to match UNIX username 03:03:42 err, IRC nick 03:03:46 or hmm 03:03:51 I guess you could SUMMON by username anyway 03:04:07 Yes, you give it a username. 03:04:37 But IRCnet is all dedicated servers, so it wouldn't be very useful. 03:05:21 (You don't have to be on the same server, you can "SUMMON user some.other.server" too.) 03:06:41 Also a relic: write(1). I wouldn't be surprised if these days it's major use was to be a mild annoyance at people who are trying to look at the man page for write(3) but neglect to specify the section. 03:13:37 man proc 03:13:44 oh fuck not again this stupid tcl man page 03:13:46 man 5 proc 03:15:47 On my own computer I use sounds to implement SUMMON, although when working on UNIX systems I do tend to tell them that they can just write to my tty or I can write to their tty, although the other people tend to prefer otherwise 03:17:11 I have 6 virtual terminals open right now 03:17:18 so people writing to them wouldn't know which one I wanted them to write to 03:17:25 (and I'm currently not looking at any of them) 03:18:01 Which ones are you logged into though? 03:18:23 All of them or only some? 03:18:23 they're running with my perms 03:18:34 I have another 6 running from getty but I'm not logged into any of those 03:18:52 (although I used one earlier to kill a process that was causing swapping) 03:18:54 fizzie: this makes me want networked wall 03:19:01 wait that was literally what that XP thing was 03:19:08 back when you could pop up an alert box for anyone just by knowing their IP 03:19:15 remember how microsoft released an operating system with that feature?? 03:19:20 -!- L8D has joined. 03:20:08 I remember when they released Windows 3.11 for Workgroups, yes. 03:20:08 Well, the other method is if you have a IRC server then SUMMON can be used, and then can be implemented according to how it is wanted to implemented. 03:20:29 "feature" 03:20:53 Or use the message send protocol 03:22:25 elliott: you wouldn't even have to know their IP, sending to every IPv4 address in the address space is within the reach of modern computers/connectinos 03:22:29 *connections 03:22:39 ais523: that involves knowing their IP though 03:22:45 I mean that is a method of finding their IP 03:22:51 okay this is an epistemological objection 03:23:00 you still wouldn't know what their IP was even after the message had been sent 03:23:10 right, okay 03:23:15 but you would know their IP 03:23:17 just not that it's theirs. 03:23:24 hmm 03:23:39 In the same way everyone knows all the IPs? 03:23:39 okay let's stop this conversation right here before we get deep into semiotics 03:23:40 I'm not sure I agree with your semantics there 03:23:44 fizzie: right. 03:23:56 but we don't "know" all the IPv6s in a concrete sense. okay, this is incoherent 03:24:08 just because there are too many of them? 03:25:00 right. 03:25:15 if we have an action to be performed on an IPv4 address 03:25:17 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:25:18 I mean, even 4 billion is a big number 03:25:24 and we want that action to be performed on the address owned by a certain person 03:25:30 we can accomplish this 03:25:32 ... 03:25:35 uh, depending on what the action is 03:25:36 even 3714444 is a big number (which is the number of tests my NH4 testsuite wants to run) 03:25:44 `factor 3714444 03:25:47 3714444: 2 2 3 3 3 163 211 03:25:51 "come to know whether or not the address belongs to a pre-specified person" is not a valid action 03:25:54 this is hard! 03:26:05 as long as it's a write-only action 03:26:20 but the point is that we can't do the same for IPv6, because brute force isn't a viable strategy there; you need more information. 03:26:30 ais523: right. IPv4 -> (), in a sense. 03:26:49 or, even, IPv4 -> only things derivable from communicating with that address. oh, god, somebody stop me 03:26:54 in a sense that allows some sort of side effect 03:27:11 hmm 03:27:18 oh, a couple of days ago I met an F# fan 03:27:29 but they weren't talking about F#, so it wasn't very informative in that respect 03:29:41 anyway, the point is that Windows XP SP0 wouldn't have had as huge a spam problem if we had moved to IPv6-only before then 03:29:48 draw whatever conclusions you wish 03:34:10 new technologies tend to be widely deployed before people think about their security implications 03:36:09 thank you, but I actually said draw, not type 03:36:15 please do that again but as an image 03:36:41 can't you just take a screenshot? 03:40:18 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 03:43:20 elliott: i think an interpretive dance would be better hth 03:43:38 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:44:09 oerjan: careful you might evoke the wrath of edwardk hth 03:44:33 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:45:50 i am sorry i wasn't aware that edwardk hated interpretive dance 03:46:49 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:49:56 also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAJBuGwQEHg 03:50:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:50:33 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 03:50:47 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 03:56:41 -!- newsham_ has joined. 03:56:44 -!- newsham has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:00:43 -!- newsham_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:01:30 -!- newsham has joined. 04:06:20 7-Zip can support many file formats, but I want to add also support of Hamster archive (without autodetection). I have successfully used 7-Zip to load .lzh files and .dmg files, as well as .rar files. (Probably hamarc is a better program to deal with Hamster archives, but still it can be useful to support many format in case someone has 7-Zip and try to load it) 04:07:04 -!- adu has joined. 04:13:33 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:16:41 Oh, speaking of NH. 04:16:57 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:17:11 In the tube, there was a charity ad for something called the "Orbis Flying Eye Hospital". 04:17:15 I think I parsed it wrong. 04:17:26 -!- L8D has joined. 04:17:59 (Although flying isn't quite floating.) 04:18:14 -!- adu has joined. 04:18:53 ? 04:19:08 Evil Eye Hospital 04:24:33 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:25:47 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:25:52 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 04:26:04 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 04:27:25 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:29:26 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 04:29:47 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 04:30:01 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:30:02 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 04:32:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:32:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 04:35:19 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:37:48 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/The_Original_Advertisement.jpg 04:48:18 did you see github's unicorn? 04:51:50 http://i.imgur.com/9ILmkTW.png here it is 04:52:39 isn't that d. shaw's user icon? 04:52:56 zed shaw 04:52:57 idk, i've seen it today for the first time 04:52:58 someone 04:53:13 there's some person in the same group as zed shaw who uses that pic on twitter 04:54:03 they used it during their downtime today 04:54:14 i mean, yesterday 04:54:39 I don't think it was that unicorn in specific 04:54:49 nvm 04:56:20 the corn isn't unique 05:08:51 -!- password2_ has joined. 05:09:01 not to diminish his grief, but has anyone other than b_jonas heard about that Matoušek guy before 05:11:19 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Nadinepi * New user account 05:11:57 any bets on whether or not that's a spambot account? 05:12:13 it sort-of looks like it could be, but "pi" is a bit shorter than their normal surnames 05:12:26 oh nadine 05:12:40 i initially parsed it as 4 random cv syllables 05:12:58 which is something a spambot might also do 05:13:30 oh, consonant vowel 05:13:32 hasn't hit the abuse log yet 05:13:40 ais523: you will be sorry when she posts her magnificent circular language 05:14:00 or possibly elated, it's that magnificent 05:14:24 shachaf: ME AM PLAY LINGUIST 05:14:30 What is a circular language? 05:14:47 shachaf: i dunno but anyone named pi surely knows how to make one 05:15:02 oerjan: You reminded me of elementary school English class, where they taught us that you double the second consonant in the "-ing" form of a word when you have a word of the form CVC 05:15:08 For instance, run->running 05:15:31 I have no idea if this rule is legitimate. It surely has exceptions, and at least this differs between US and UK English. 05:15:53 Anyway I probably haven't thought about the c/v thing since then. 05:16:13 shachaf: the normal rule is that you have to double the consonant if it'd affect the pronunciation of the last vowel in the word 05:16:15 i've been rereading the language construction kit recently 05:16:19 e.g. "runing" would have a long "u" 05:16:26 i,i runïng 05:16:27 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:16:39 I didn't like that class very much. 05:16:55 What do you do for e.g. "cancel"? 05:16:55 -!- ^v has joined. 05:16:56 shachaf: you forgot the hth how can edwardk bot impersonate you if you keep changing 05:16:59 Or "travel"? 05:17:01 cancelling 05:17:22 oerjan: where did you hear about that twh 05:18:24 travelling, sinning, fapping... but it doesn't work for eating or jumping 05:18:45 What do you do for e.g. "cancel"? <-- develop a US/UK split, imo 05:20:07 shachaf: "cancelling", "travelling" in UK english 05:20:42 Canadian english tends to be halfway between the two 05:22:03 hmm, so p, n, and l tend to double while t and d don't 05:22:26 no wait, adding does 05:22:58 screw it english has no damn rules 05:23:06 -!- rodgort` has joined. 05:24:23 oren: "add" has two d's already 05:24:23 OH. it's sort of phonetc 05:24:24 -!- ais523 has quit. 05:24:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 05:24:57 see, rapping has a short vowel while raping has a long vowel 05:25:06 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:25:06 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:25:07 -!- newsham_ has joined. 05:25:46 So if the word has a long vowel like eat, there is no double. 05:26:28 ear -> earring 05:26:56 consider hearing versus herring 05:27:50 bite biting, blit blitting 05:28:09 holy shit my world is changed] 05:29:05 shachaf that is a compund word though. ear ring 05:30:02 you'll be earring from my lawyer 05:30:08 which is why cupboard isn't cubberd 05:31:17 if someone is runing they are clearly carving runes 05:34:12 anyway to me "Nadinepi" looks like "na-di-ne-pi" 05:34:57 oerjan: where did you hear about that twh <-- check the logs hth 05:35:16 oerjan: a quick search with /last didn't find it hth 05:36:29 now if i only kept logs 05:37:03 oerjan: 20:32 one of these days i'll write a shachaf bot that takes random text and puts hth on the end and i,i at the start at random intervals throughout 05:37:12 oerjan: oh 05:37:14 I THINK I'VE FOUND THE CULPRIT HTH 05:37:51 what is i,i? 05:37:55 scoerjan 05:38:03 that works better if you pronounce j like jack 05:38:17 i don't hth 05:38:44 jack pronounces j like y, though 05:39:00 anyway to me "Nadinepi" looks like "na-di-ne-pi" <-- that's equivalent to what i said hth 05:41:51 tar -xvzf songs.tgz 05:41:57 crap 05:43:20 xkcd claims tar commands are hard to remember but i know them well 05:44:49 What I don't like is that I don't know how to run ssh and scp in the same terminal 05:46:10 When I am using tar I just use pipes with tar though 05:49:47 zzo38: is there a way to tar at this end and make a pipe to the other computer? 05:50:04 and then run tar -x at the other end 05:51:04 Yes you can use netcat 05:52:41 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:52:49 @metar ENVA 05:52:49 ENVA 220520Z 16005KT 130V200 9999 -SN FEW013 BKN032 M00/M03 Q1012 RMK WIND 670FT 19015KT 05:53:07 WHY IS THERE SNOW OUTSIDE 05:53:36 (ok it's melting, but still...) 05:53:43 you're in scandinavia in march hth 05:54:21 there is snow outside here too 05:55:16 @metar CYYZ 05:55:17 CYYZ 220500Z 30016KT 15SM FEW030 M06/M14 A3014 RMK SC1 SC TR SLP215 05:55:55 pesky bragging canadians 05:56:40 @metar KSJC 05:56:40 KSJC 220553Z 29005KT 10SM BKN200 14/10 A3014 RMK AO2 SLP207 T01440100 10222 20144 51013 05:57:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:57:27 pesky bragging californians 05:58:45 @metar LLBG 05:58:45 LLBG 220550Z 27012KT 9999 FEW040 16/06 Q1019 NOSIG 06:02:45 pesky bragging californian jews 06:03:36 whoa whoa whoa 06:03:59 i wasn't sure whether to leave in the californian 06:04:48 -!- password2_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:11:46 https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ceekars-4d-headphones-for-vr-games-movies-music why is this a thing 06:11:57 this should not be a thing, this should be done in software afaik 06:12:42 from this and xkcd we deduce that it will become immensely popular 06:12:44 your ears have two channels... why does any douns system have more than two channels 06:13:15 how the hell did I spell sound that badly 06:14:13 oren: well, in theaters, it's hard to make ear A not hear what is intended for ear B 06:14:20 oren: it makes sense in a room with several listeners but not in headphones i think 06:15:05 Sgeo: that would suggest you should only have one channel 06:15:35 * oerjan carefully moves away 06:18:16 -!- ^v^v has joined. 06:18:17 or are you suggesting the four channels use synced waves to cancel out the left channel at the right ear and cancel the right channel at the left ear? 06:20:16 I have no idea. I guess I'm imaging several surrounding channels used to fake positions poorly, as an imitation of what can be done with true 2 channel audio 06:20:53 -!- password2_ has joined. 06:21:02 Hmm... yeah that might work. I'm glad I own earbuds though. 06:21:38 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:21:49 Theatres should put headphone jacks on the seats like on an airplane 06:22:45 imagining 06:22:51 Why does that word look so weird 06:23:40 because the word imagine breaks the "e makes vowels long" rule 06:24:08 imaginning 06:25:00 -!- password2_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:25:23 -!- newsham_ has quit (*.net *.split). 06:27:04 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 06:30:00 hold on, what is up with the word poor? sometimes when I say it it rhymes with door, and sometimes with boor. 06:31:15 * oerjan has no idea how boor is pronounced 06:31:25 like lure 06:31:35 okau 06:31:36 with a /u/ 06:34:55 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:36:06 lol. go to this page and click on the play buttons to annoy people 06:36:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_vowel_chart_with_audio 06:38:04 like "dude, wtf" "AAHH UUHH OOHH EEE" "come on, stop it!" "AYYY OOUU AWWW" 06:40:43 -!- newsham has joined. 06:41:51 -!- iamevn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:42:21 -!- password2_ has joined. 06:45:42 -!- hjulle has joined. 07:12:47 oren: are you singing system of a down songs? 07:14:20 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:28:00 -!- password2_ has joined. 07:57:07 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:58:52 -!- olsner has joined. 08:02:14 -!- L8D has joined. 08:06:54 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:07:19 @version 08:07:19 lambdabot 5.0 08:07:19 git clone git://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot.git 08:07:49 > let (a,g) = System.Random.random (System.Random.mkStdGen 4) in a :: Int 08:07:51 No instance for (System.Random.Random t0) 08:07:51 arising from the ambiguity check for ‘g’ 08:07:51 The type variable ‘t0’ is ambiguous 08:08:15 most ridiculous failure of type inference ever? 08:15:09 :t System.Random.random 08:15:10 (Random a, RandomGen g) => g -> (a, g) 08:15:20 oh and 08:15:26 > let (a,_) = System.Random.random (System.Random.mkStdGen 4) in a :: Int 08:15:28 -258552320774346181 08:15:47 oerjan: I don't believe the type of System.Random.random has any implication that the types of a and g are in any way connected 08:16:02 which explains both the results you show there 08:16:25 the problem is that g is _clearly_ of type StdGen in both cases 08:17:04 the type of _that_ is not polymorphic at all. so why does whether it is named or not affect whether the rest types? 08:17:40 oh hm 08:17:51 it does affect what the _value_ of g is. 08:18:15 (a's type) 08:19:12 (this was an SO question btw) 08:19:51 but Haskell's types aren't meta-polymorphic, in that if you have a variable of type g, that determines whether it's also of type h for any type h 08:20:07 wat 08:21:23 well, say in Java 08:21:34 if I have a function that I know outputs a value of type JComponent 08:21:44 that doesn't let me determine whether the output is, say, of type JFrame 08:21:59 whereas, in Haskell, if a function outputs a StdGen, I know it's a StdGen and nothinge lse 08:23:41 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:28:08 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:37:39 -!- password2_ has joined. 08:54:46 oerjan: I dunno, but people keep asking questions about computational geometry on irc and other forums, and these questions are getting more and more relevant these days just like how machine vision is getting more relevant, so I think it can't hurt if at least the mathematically inclined people hear about him. 08:55:08 ok 08:57:55 oren: sure, you can use ssh somecomputer tar cC somedir . | tar xv 08:58:26 but be careful because the shell will reinterpret that command on the other machine, so you have to quote some characters two or three levels 09:06:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:14:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:20:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:23:23 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:23:46 -!- ^v^v has joined. 09:34:36 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 09:34:36 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:03:09 -!- _AndoDaan_ has joined. 10:04:00 -!- _AndoDaan_ has changed nick to AndoDaan. 10:06:24 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:10:44 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:19:38 -!- L8D has joined. 10:21:48 -!- password2_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:33:14 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 10:35:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:38:32 -!- password2_ has joined. 10:50:49 -!- ais523 has changed nick to callforjudgement. 10:50:55 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 10:50:57 -!- ais523 has changed nick to scarf. 10:51:02 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523. 10:54:36 -!- password2_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:56:01 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 11:09:18 -!- password2_ has joined. 11:26:49 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 11:27:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:27:08 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 11:43:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:56:20 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:58:02 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:00:47 -!- kapil___ has joined. 12:04:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:05:37 -!- CADD has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:09:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:09:27 -!- password2_ has joined. 12:32:08 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:37:46 -!- password2_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:45:42 shachaf: Re the CVC + double-consonant + -ing theory, mix -> mixxing? 12:46:21 Also, bow -> bowwing. 12:47:13 -!- nys has joined. 12:50:44 Or in general with 'w' in the end. (paw, row, saw, sew, tow.) 12:51:50 (Ditto for x.) 12:53:04 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 12:54:07 -!- L8D has joined. 12:54:52 -!- password2 has joined. 12:58:48 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 242 seconds). 13:11:58 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:22:48 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:31:23 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:31:51 -!- ^v^v has joined. 13:31:53 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:40:13 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 13:40:53 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:40:54 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:59:30 -!- boily has joined. 14:06:04 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 14:07:32 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:07:43 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 14:24:20 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 14:25:54 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:25:59 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 14:50:25 -!- kapil___ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 14:56:13 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 15:02:47 -!- Jumbo has joined. 15:03:57 Hello 15:08:21 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:09:41 Jumbhello! 15:13:37 boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes 15:14:13 olsner: no problem. always at people's service. 15:14:19 `relcome Jumbo 15:14:20 ​Jumbo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:14:23 `thanks boily 15:14:24 Thanks, boily. Thoily. 15:14:45 is django that python CGI thing? 15:15:00 hellolsner, helloren. 15:15:00 boily: you broke the streak 15:15:10 ais523: I know. 15:15:12 olsner being in all the django quotes was hilarious 15:15:19 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:15:32 oren: it's (probably) the most popularest python web framework. 15:15:47 clearly you should do Python websites with twisted 15:16:07 or, hmm 15:16:12 what would be less appropriate 15:16:16 numpy? that's arguably more appropriate though 15:16:20 -!- Jumbo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:16:27 as well as less likely to be used by mistake 15:16:31 -!- Jumbo has joined. 15:16:33 fwiw, I've never used django, but have done things with twisted 15:16:44 -!- Jumbo has left. 15:16:50 I'm only really familiar with PHP/zend, PHP/codeigniter and Perl/abomination written by dad 15:16:59 I did stuff with django. it was interesting, but I prefer pyramid 15:17:03 I've "used" twisted in the sense of working from existing code without understanding it 15:17:05 (twisted is just abhorrent.) 15:17:13 and just copying lines of code and experimenting until things worked 15:17:22 therefore, statistically speaking 15:17:29 it's likely to be the worst code I've written in the past 5 years or so 15:17:46 fizzie: I never said this rule was reliable. I think I found it suspicious even then in 3rd grade or whenever it was when I hardly spoke any English. 15:18:01 are there any reliable rules in English? 15:18:11 "single letters pluralize with apostrophe-s" perhaps 15:18:18 that one has to be taught because it's so different from everything else 15:18:22 fizzie: Some people might argue that x really stands for ks in this case, and that w isn't quite a consonant since it sort of forms a diphthong. 15:18:27 But I have no idea. 15:18:27 and only affects 26 words, so… 15:18:28 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 15:18:45 I don't pluralize with apostrophes, in general. 15:18:47 w is a vowel in Welsh 15:18:51 shachaf: nobody does in almost any case 15:18:54 that's why the letters are weird 15:19:00 I was taught to use names for letters 15:19:03 If it would be ambiguous I quote with an apostrophe in on both sides, as in "'a's". 15:19:06 (probably because 'a' to 'as', 'i' to 'i's just doesn't work) 15:19:17 * 'i' to 'is' 15:19:22 s/in // 15:19:30 apostrophe both sides could work, I guess 15:19:36 aes bees cees dees ees efs gees 15:19:37 (ofc, the plural of "I" is actually "we") 15:20:10 i,i s/i,i/we/ 15:20:27 YAELI: you start with a sequence of letters of your choice, then you can only apply standard English tense formation rules to it 15:20:34 well, pluralizing, noun→verb, and so on 15:20:37 in a tight loop 15:20:42 \Sigma_{i \in we} ... 15:20:47 whether this can be TC rather depends on how absurd the rules are 15:21:01 shachaf: \Sigma_{i \in us}, surely? 15:21:14 Wouldn't it be me in us? 15:21:23 err, I guess so, yes 15:21:29 I'm just used to the use of i as a loop variable 15:21:39 also H's is supposed to be "aitches". 15:22:01 all the cat's are out of the bag 15:22:12 huh, given the context 15:22:21 I interpreted "cat's" as the pluralization of the UNIX command cat 15:22:26 i did too 15:22:50 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 15:22:58 (because the plural of the animal is "cats", and because "cat" the command can sensibly be written in tt-font, and the single letters are sensibly interpreted as tt-font too) 15:23:39 If you're using a different font you don't need to disambiguate. 15:23:56 but it is biguated by context 15:24:32 what principle are you removing the "am-" prefix on? 15:24:53 it's not like "co-" or "un-" which in #esoteric prefix can be cancelled on another "co-" or "un-" respectively 15:25:02 hydrous anhydrous 15:25:16 that's an- not am- 15:25:28 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:25:30 and there aren't any prefix-changing prefixes involved 15:25:44 -!- AndoDaan_ has changed nick to AndoDaan. 15:26:02 ais523: the N undergoes a labialization to M because of the B 15:26:20 hmm, I'm not used to "anb" to "amb" but I can believe it 15:26:32 ambassador 15:27:13 oren: I'm not convinced that that ever had an an- prefix 15:27:25 I am not aware of any words with "nb" cluster anyway 15:27:48 there have to be lots, surely 15:27:52 * ais523 greps /usr/share/dict/words 15:28:20 oh yes, loads 15:28:35 such as "unbreakable" 15:28:40 we don't say "umbreakable" 15:29:03 fungot: do you umbreak? 15:29:03 boily: ah...... use what you like 15:29:13 fungot: thanks! umbreakable it is, then! 15:29:14 boily: yay. no more than any other oo system i've seen outperform sisc reliably by more than an order of magnitude 15:29:52 ais523: I'm having trouble distinctly saying unbreakable without it being un *glottal stop* breakable 15:30:25 I have 61 "unb-" words, 15 "umb-" words 15:30:49 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 15:30:49 and the "umb-" words are things like "umbrella" where the root seems to contain the m and b together 15:31:19 Oh. example symbiosis 15:31:34 with syn + biosis 15:31:36 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:31:48 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 15:31:48 yeah, I'll buy that 15:32:13 There's also the question whether when "n" is turned to the labiodental nasal [M] in eg. "information", it should be transcribed as "n" or "m". 15:32:30 As in, when it turns to "m" like in "embiggen", it's usually written as "m". 15:32:53 b_jonas: the first "n" in "information" is definitely pronounced as an "n" for me 15:33:19 ais523: I pronounce it as a labiodental nasal, that is, at the same place of articulation as the [f]: with the lower lips and upper teeth 15:33:23 symphony is the canonical labiodental example. 15:33:23 -!- S1 has joined. 15:33:30 boily: I definitely don't 15:33:34 -!- S1 has left. 15:33:37 err, *b_jonas: 15:33:37 the question is whether that is more similar to "n" or "m". 15:33:38 ais523: wikipedia does. 15:33:51 I guess it depends on accent a lot 15:34:02 boily: hmm 15:34:11 boily: but is that a modified "n" etymologycally? 15:34:15 um.. i'mma say it should be written as whichever it is in source language 15:34:21 * boily shrugs 15:34:24 b_jonas: perhaps. 15:34:42 syn phony 15:34:48 oren: that applies if it's a greek or latin borrowing as a whole, but what about new words with the in- prefix? 15:34:53 as in, new English words 15:36:17 hmm... infertile, inflame infect... seems like 'nf' is how you write such clusters 15:37:44 why would you change "in-" before "f"? "f" is a vowel 15:38:00 ais523: what? "f" is a consonant 15:38:12 b_jonas: you can hold an "f" indefinitely 15:38:14 ais523: and for the same reason why you usually change it to "m" before a "p" 15:38:16 you can't do that with true consonants like "b" 15:38:29 ais523: yes, because the "f" is a fricative, the "b" is a plosive 15:38:30 (actually I think the normal term is "semi-vowel") 15:38:33 ais523: f is a hissing noise between lower lip and upper teeth 15:38:34 no 15:38:55 ais523: "s" is a fricative too, which is why you can hold "s" indefinitely too, or at least as long as you're out of breath 15:39:32 um 15:39:36 as long as you're _not_ out of breath 15:39:40 quite a lot of apparent consonants can be held 15:39:46 "l", "r", "p" at a stretch 15:39:53 'synchronous' changes it to /ŋk/ 15:40:15 there's also something in the "g"/"j" space that can be held but it's not exactly either letter 15:40:31 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:40:33 probably the Chinese "zh" actually 15:40:46 oren: yes, before a "k" or "g" the "n" usually changes to a "ng" sound 15:41:03 the chinese zh is /ts/ iirc 15:41:05 "m" and "n" can be held; "kh" can be; "r" can be 15:41:24 ais523: yes, the [ʃ] and [ʒ] sounds are fricatives (they work almost the same as [s] and [z]) and thus can be held indefinitely 15:41:25 oren: I thought it was the second half of an English "j" (the first half is a "d") 15:42:10 [ʈʂ] 15:42:14 ais523: the [n] has a so called "release" which you can do only once and not hold, and is similar to the release of the [b], and this is preceded by a nasal sound 15:42:20 ais523: correct 15:42:41 b_jonas: is it possible to not do the release at all? 15:42:45 ais523: the English j is very similar or the same as a [dʒ] 15:42:49 I guess I can get a [n] to trail off 15:43:02 ais523: yes, but then people will think you're French, and _then_ it counts as a vowel 15:43:05 b_jonas: so now you can explain to me what a Hungarian "gy" is 15:43:26 it sounds similar to "j" to a Brit, but it definitely isn't exactly the same 15:43:30 ais523: the Hungarian "gy" is a plosive, it's like a "d" or a "g" but it's articulated somewhere between the two 15:43:49 b_jonas: huh, I think I can pronounce that 15:43:52 and it does sound a lot like "j" 15:43:54 it's a plosive so it also has a hold and a release, but you put the tongue between the two 15:44:14 ais523: but be careful, there's probably two or three different plosives like that, depending on where you put your tongue 15:44:39 ais523: http://www.madore.org/~david/misc/linguistic/ipa/ is a good resource, though it's not complete, so it doesn't tell everything 15:44:39 I normally don't care that much about pronouncing foreign languages without an accent 15:44:44 just, about pronouncing them intelligibly 15:44:59 also, isn't David Madore an esolanger? 15:45:14 inventor of Unlambda, apparently 15:46:53 ais523: yes 15:48:05 what that writeup doesn't explain is how the vowels work 15:48:14 there's a blog entry somewhere that explains part of that, but not completely 15:48:26 however, the consonants you asked about are in here 15:49:20 ais523: anyway, the point is, [ʒ] is a fricative, which means you can hold it forever, just like [z], but you put the tongue to a slightly different place. 15:50:33 and if you're speaking some Slavic languages, you can produce not two but like four or five different fricative variants that are all velar (which means your tongue is pushed against the top of your mouth) like [z] and [ʒ] 15:50:35 ʒ is voiced version of english "sh" 15:50:50 but I've no idea how to pronounced all the different versions of those, or how to hear the difference between them 15:50:55 oren: correct 15:51:26 b_jonas: huh, I don't put the tongue to the top of my mouth for [z] 15:51:43 the main differentce between it and [ʒ] is the position of my teeth 15:52:04 ais523: you put it on the sides of the palate 15:52:17 and argh, yes, it's not called "velar" but "palatal" or something 15:52:20 stupid latin 15:52:20 I put it a bit behind my teeth 15:52:36 or maybe it's called something different, let me look in that article I linked to 15:52:46 "alveolar" 15:52:51 that doesn't even mean anything 15:52:53 ok, whatever 15:53:00 make it "alveolar" 15:53:43 velar vs. uvular fricative is difficult for me to distinguish 15:54:16 alveolar versus dental is hard for me, uvular and velar are pretty easy, because uvular makes me choke 15:55:03 whatever, all that stuff apart from labials ([p]), dentals ([t], [θ]), labiodentals ([f], [ɱ]) are somewhere inside your mouth, impossible to see where, and I can't follow which is where 15:55:07 or did you means distinguish upone hearing it 15:55:23 oren: either 15:56:26 labial is obvious, except at the start of words, because you have to close your lips for it. dental is obvious because if you do it wrong you spit salvia. labiodental is obvious because you have to put your teeth towards your lips while your lips aren't closed. 15:56:50 the rest is complicated because yuo have to do stuff with your tongue that's invisible without X-rays or something 15:57:10 mind you, people _have_ done x-ray photos for this for educational purposes 15:57:15 so you can look that up 15:57:16 but still 15:57:26 yuo don't see it in everyday life 16:00:08 most children learn the rest by reverse-engineering what they hear, but only up to the equivalence classes used in their particular language 16:02:17 it's a bad system. phonetics should be taught open-source rather than everyone having to reverse-engineer compatible ways to produce the sounds 16:03:25 and I mean, taught open source to most people, not just the few that have speaking or hearing disabilities 16:04:45 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 16:05:12 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 16:05:48 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:05:52 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 16:06:34 for reference, http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2013-05-06.2138.voyelles-cardinales.html is the entry that tells part of the story about vowels 16:06:55 `run bash -c $(sed 's//echo /' twolines) 16:06:56 sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression \ bash: -c: option requires an argument 16:07:15 So uh. 16:07:20 `run bash -c $(sed -e 's//echo /' twolines) 16:07:21 sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression \ bash: -c: option requires an argument 16:07:41 I guess I don't understand how sed works. 16:07:59 `run bash -c $(sed -e 's/^/echo /' twolines) 16:08:00 No output. 16:08:02 HackEgo: try double quotes around the $() 16:08:05 this isn't zsh/tcsh 16:08:08 `run bash -c "$(sed -e 's/^/echo /' twolines)" 16:08:09 first \ second 16:08:17 `run echo thanks b_jonas 16:08:18 thanks b_jonas 16:08:27 `cat twolines 16:08:27 first \ second 16:08:28 Sweet. 16:08:35 `wc twolines 16:08:35 `sed -e 's/^/echo /' twolines 16:08:36 ​ 2 2 13 twolines 16:08:36 sed: -e expression #1, char 2: unknown command: `'' 16:08:41 `run sed -e 's/^/echo /' twolines 16:08:42 echo first \ echo second 16:09:30 echo No output. > twolines 16:13:05 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 16:15:06 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:17:32 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 16:18:19 -!- ^v has joined. 16:24:12 -!- S1 has joined. 16:26:37 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:27:09 -!- S1 has quit (Client Quit). 16:30:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:30:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:31:44 -!- L8D has joined. 16:35:12 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 16:36:58 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:37:10 -!- iamevn has joined. 16:38:34 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:45:37 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:49:41 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:49:56 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 17:01:33 < oren> but it is biguated by context – It’s actually ambi- + agere. 17:03:21 -!- Enki has joined. 17:03:34 -!- Enki has changed nick to Enki01. 17:07:08 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 17:13:44 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 17:13:48 -!- Enki01 has left ("Leaving"). 17:14:54 -!- ^v has joined. 17:16:00 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 17:16:17 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:16:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:27:47 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 17:30:04 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:30:12 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 17:39:52 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 17:40:14 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 17:41:12 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:41:17 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 17:43:38 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:46:04 -!- G33kDude has joined. 17:46:14 -!- G33kDude has quit (Changing host). 17:46:14 -!- G33kDude has joined. 17:47:34 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:47:43 -!- G33kDude has changed nick to GeekDude. 17:48:51 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 17:50:13 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 18:07:47 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 18:23:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:33:21 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:36:38 `run sed -e 's/^/echo /e' twolines 18:36:39 first \ second 18:36:56 you meant that one 18:40:11 there's an “e” switch for sed regexps'? 18:40:14 * boily shudders 18:40:52 it's a gnu extension 18:41:21 it basically passes the whole line to system() 18:41:33 it's also a valid command in gnu sed 18:41:48 `` sed e <<< 'echo hurr durr durr' 18:41:50 hurr durr durr 18:45:52 -!- nys has left ("Leaving"). 18:48:14 `dog 18:48:15 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dog: not found 18:49:35 -!- hjulle has joined. 18:50:11 `` ls bin/d* 18:50:12 bin/danddreclist \ bin/define \ bin/delquote \ bin/delvs \ bin/dis86 \ bin/dontaskdonttelllist \ bin/don'taskdon'ttelllist 18:50:32 `? delvs 18:50:32 delvs? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:50:36 `delvs 18:50:37 Usage: delvs 18:50:47 hmm... sounds ominous. what's a vs? 19:04:44 -!- zadock has joined. 19:13:13 the code looks like an old version of https://github.com/L8D/delvs/ before it acquired socket operations 19:13:40 (it's a brainfuck with some extra operations) 19:15:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:18:46 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:21:33 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:38:31 -!- iamevn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:40:56 -!- iamevn has joined. 19:42:17 Or it would be if the code for skipping to the closing ] were correct. 19:47:33 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 19:49:53 -!- mitchs_ has quit (Quit: mitchs_). 20:01:30 -!- mitchs has joined. 20:01:57 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:03:21 -!- bb010g has joined. 20:07:29 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 20:09:14 -!- L8D has joined. 20:13:52 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:16:37 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:20:43 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:21:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:22:19 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:22:39 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSleep. 20:24:09 `` quote django | tail -3 20:24:10 884) `pastequotes django http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5404 I'm still in all of them :( someone else get quoted saying django please \ 1101) `addquote \item `addquote two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst par 20:24:19 `` quote django | tail -2 20:24:20 1101) `addquote \item `addquote two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes. \ 1115) I love django. 20:25:07 oh right, I was going to 20:25:09 hellørjan. reminiscing about the djangiraffe madness? 20:25:13 `addquote boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes 20:25:19 1236) boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes 20:25:55 olsner: apparently 87,5% was too low. enjoy your eternal acute djangoness hth 20:26:08 boily: belloily. just logreading. i think elliott may be evil hth 20:26:35 `` quote django | wc 20:26:36 ​ 9 245 1622 20:26:47 > 7/9 20:26:48 0.7777777777777778 20:26:53 um no 20:27:00 > 8/9 20:27:01 0.8888888888888888 20:27:09 ...i should know that one. 20:27:27 olsner: 's ok just remember 8 is a lucky number 20:29:45 I don't believe in elliott's evilness. maybe he ranks at about 3 or 4 millioerjans, which is statistical background noise. 20:30:03 `` cat dog # this exists, right? 20:30:07 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 20:30:16 boily: fair enough 20:32:50 just 9 more rep... 20:34:37 rep, as in lifting? 20:34:46 as in stackoverflow 20:35:07 (reputation) 20:35:27 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:45:36 @tell ais523 i think as and is work fine as is hth 20:45:36 Consider it noted. 20:45:58 * oerjan may or may not actually mean that 20:51:01 * boily is verily tempted to mapole oerjan hth 20:51:04 -!- iamevn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:53:48 @tell ais523 un- is a germanic prefix while an- is latin the labialization only applies to the latter hth 20:53:48 Consider it noted. 20:54:15 @tell ais523 no wait, greek. 20:54:15 Consider it noted. 20:54:29 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 20:55:52 @tell ais523 except it doesn't because greek actually uses a- before consonants. latin in- works that way, though. 20:55:52 Consider it noted. 20:56:38 @tell ais523 also ambiguous doesn't actually have an am- prefix. 20:56:38 Consider it noted. 20:58:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:00:36 @tell ais523 yes it does. consider biguity. 21:00:36 Consider it noted. 21:00:57 * oerjan swats boily -----### 21:01:01 hi hi hi ^^ 21:01:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: AVOCABULANT CHICKEN). 21:02:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:02:52 @tell boily avocabulant isn't a word hth 21:02:52 Consider it noted. 21:03:14 -!- iamevn has joined. 21:06:30 @tell ais523 looking at wiktionary, the amb- in ambassador is cognate to ambi- but the path it took is really convoluted. 21:06:30 Consider it noted. 21:06:52 @ask int-e did you fix the bug where lambdabot drops messages if you get too many twh 21:06:52 Consider it noted. 21:08:52 @messages-clear 21:08:53 Unknown command, try @list 21:09:23 I know of that bug. 21:10:03 oh you're still there. my attempt to force my sleeping rhythm later has failed in such a way that my mind thinks it's after midnight already. 21:10:04 * int-e is looking at the fallout from ghc-7.10.1 21:10:29 on lambdabot? 21:10:48 its dependencies, mostly 21:16:08 int-e: well the bug hampers my ability to harass^Wadvise ais523 in absentia tdnh 21:17:12 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 21:17:22 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: rebooting). 21:17:30 patience, the bug has been there for years, surely it can wait a few weeks more 21:17:37 :P 21:18:13 now why does lambdabot depend (indirectly though) on shake... 21:21:49 -!- Melvar has joined. 21:22:15 oerjan: how do you feel about applying https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot/blob/79c694230952a8c560e7032b458b42f26661827a/patches/unlambda-0.1.3-ghc-7.10.patch to http://hackage.haskell.org/package/unlambda and making a new release? 21:23:33 i'm actually never been the maintainer for that package despite it descending from my code 21:23:37 *i've 21:24:06 ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:24:26 `addquote ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:24:28 1237) ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:24:54 oerjan: well there is no maintainer, so you can likely claim it for yourself easily :P 21:24:59 @tell boily you are right i'm more evil than elliott hth 21:24:59 Consider it noted. 21:25:17 int-e: except i don't have a github account hth 21:25:25 _or_ a hackage one. 21:25:28 oerjan: that quote should include me adding the previous one to the qdb, ideally 21:25:35 in the spirit of django quotes being unfunny and confusing 21:25:38 oerjan: the unlambda thing isn't on github anyway 21:25:46 oh. 21:27:47 -!- f|`-`|f_ has joined. 21:28:40 -!- idris-bot has joined. 21:28:51 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:28:57 -!- f|`-`|f_ has changed nick to f|`-`|f. 21:29:14 elliott: but then i'd have to actually find where you did that. 21:29:45 oerjan: you can reconstruct it from the previous quote 21:32:15 ooh good point 21:32:27 `` quote django | tail -2 21:32:29 1236) boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes \ 1237) ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:34:06 oerjan: hmm, mokus has an unlambda repository on github... I wonder... 21:34:55 `revert 21:35:00 Done. 21:35:07 `addquote `addquote boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes [...] ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:35:09 1237) `addquote boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes [...] ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:35:15 `` quote django | tail -2 21:35:16 1236) boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes \ 1237) `addquote boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes [...] ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:45:54 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:46:19 -!- ^v^v has joined. 21:53:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:56:22 -!- Zefphex has joined. 21:58:14 -!- L8D has joined. 22:01:53 ^\s+|$\s+ 22:02:35 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:09:33 ㅜㅡㅜ 22:10:08 -!- Zefphex has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:10:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:21:43 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:23:12 -!- gde33 has joined. 22:24:15 -!- oren has joined. 22:29:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:32:20 < oren> but it is biguated by context – It’s actually ambi- + agere. <-- oh. so _both_ parts of amgiguous and ambassador are cognates... 22:32:31 fancy 22:33:24 -!- zadock has joined. 22:34:20 @tell ais523 in fact Melvar mentioned the two parts "ambiguous" come from, and they're cognate to the two parts of "ambassador" :P 22:34:20 Consider it noted. 22:36:18 @tell ais523 essentially both words are originally from something meaning "moving around" 22:36:18 Consider it noted. 22:37:59 @tell ais523 oh and the -m- never was a -n-, as far back as proto-indoeuropean. 22:37:59 Consider it noted. 22:43:25 int-e: you'll tell ais523 what he missed, right? 22:44:15 Consider it biguated. 22:46:52 syn phony <-- actually συμφωνία has a μ in greek hth 22:47:40 Consider it membered 22:48:02 membered, for the first time 22:48:31 member. not even once. 22:49:31 why do people derstand these simple words? 22:50:41 because they're so azing 22:51:28 (re- + memor, under + stand) 22:54:25 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:57:39 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:01:40 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:10:12 oerjan: unlikely 23:10:35 -!- Vorpal has joined. 23:10:40 When trying to unzip on a Linux system I got "-bash: /net/home/black/bin/unzip: No such file or directory" 23:10:42 UNACCEPTABLE 23:11:00 But now how am I going to fix it please? 23:12:10 * int-e curses 23:14:47 aha, so that's why cpressey's webpage system is called chrysoberyl 23:15:11 zzo38: huh, so what is that unzip file? 23:16:02 zzo38: I would guess that the file exists, but perhaps is referring to an ld.so or shared library that doesn't. 23:16:52 That's what I thought 23:17:03 Since someone told me before thing like that is caused 23:17:21 I found where I can download the binaries, but how to figure out what libc is needed? 23:17:56 I thought most linux distributions ship some kind of unzip 23:18:25 other ideas ... does jar understand compressed zip files? 23:18:51 I think most .jars are compressed zip files. 23:19:10 Yes, .jar is also a ZIP archive 23:19:17 At least I've always assumed it's all DEFLATE. 23:19:24 Although the system I am using doesn't have jar either 23:19:25 fizzie: I have not looked in over a decade; they used to be uncompressed. 23:19:37 Aren’t jars just zips with a certain metadata file or files inside? 23:19:55 Melvar: Yes, but you don't need to compress a zip. 23:20:00 Melvar: the idea was to use jar to unpack the zip file. 23:20:03 (As in, there's a "store" compression method.) 23:20:55 It doesn't have 7-Zip either; I checked that too 23:21:01 It does have wget 23:21:24 int-e: FWIW, a randomly chosen .jar (/usr/share/tomcat7/lib/tomcat-util.jar) was compressed. 23:21:35 (With DEFLATE.) 23:22:01 The computer I am trying to use is x86_64 GNU/Linux and 3.2.0-77-generic #114 Ubuntu 23:22:20 Does the compression method affect anything germane to the idea of using jar to decompress an arbitrary zip? 23:22:46 Melvar: If all .jar files are uncompressed, the jar tool might not support any compression methods. 23:22:59 Melvar: I mean, hypothetically. They're compressed, and it does. 23:23:05 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 23:27:43 oerjan: look at this wonderful hack: http://sprunge.us/VcXA?sh ;-) 23:30:49 Well, I tried one, and it didn't work 23:31:14 what distribution are you using anyway? 23:31:46 It says "Linux beryllium 3.2.0-77-generic #114-Ubuntu SMP Tue Mar 10 17:26:03 UTC 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux" 23:31:55 O KAY 23:31:56 I have no administration access 23:32:32 okay, but you can still fetch a .deb for unzip... which are ar files containing tgz files, the binary will be in data.tar.gz (or is it tgz...) 23:32:32 So, I cannot use the package manager. 23:33:12 And you can use dpkg-deb to unpack debs without having any special access. 23:33:13 that should have a better chance of working than looking for random binaries 23:34:33 And then what? 23:35:04 then you have a working unzip binary? 23:36:34 I still don't know what to do though, yes I do have dpkg-deb but don't know where to find the package or what need to be done with it 23:37:45 For Ubuntu, you can get them at http://packages.ubuntu.com/ 23:37:53 You can do "lsb_release -a" to figure out the Ubuntu version. 23:37:56 http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=unzip should find the .deb file; onoce unpacked it'll give you an unzip binary 23:38:32 int-e's link has list of versions of unzip for each release. 23:39:48 The page for a particular version has a "Download unzip" table for architectures, and Ubuntu's name for x86_86 is "amd64". 23:40:33 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 23:40:34 And dpkg-deb's (rather poor) user interface is "dpkg-deb -x unzip.deb some-directory-name", to extract the package files into some-directory-name, and afterwards you should find a binary in some-directory-name/usr/bin/unzip. 23:41:04 O, OK thanks 23:42:34 Which one is the correct package though? 23:43:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:45:03 If you mean which one out of "lucid", "precise", "trusty", "utopic", "vivid" (holy moly, are they up to V already?), lsb_release -a should have a 'codename' field matching one of them. Unless it's a no-longer-supported version of Ubuntu. 23:46:40 OK, now I see 23:46:45 I didn't know lsb_release command 23:47:27 the kernel version suggests 12.04 23:47:58 ("precise") 23:48:40 Yes, that's the response I got when I troed lsb_release -a 23:49:39 There are probably many ways to determine current Ubuntu version. lsb_release is a "standard" tool from the Linux Standard Base, so it can work on other distributions, too. I don't know how widely supported it is. 23:49:47 (s/version/metadata/, the compilation time probably has the most information contents in there) 23:50:47 works in debian (no surprise there), doesn't work in Arch. I wonder about Gentoo... 23:51:58 cat /etc/issue is another idea 23:52:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:52:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:57:36 OK I figured out how to unpack it now 23:58:31 I did it by: dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile unzip_6.0-4ubuntu2.3_amd64.deb | tar xO ./usr/bin/unzip > ~/bin/unzip 23:59:21 (I used apt-get download to download the package first; the webpage says using aptitude and I looked at the man page so I figured out now)