2015-03-01: 00:00:54 11786 bytes fungot.dat file, sha1sum 836cb8a6797db5578498bfdb829cc321b76d0bea fungot.dat 00:00:54 It gives me a "download" option, at least. 00:01:19 836cb matches. 00:01:43 -!- fnordbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:01:44 If 7 hex digits is good enough for git, probably 5 is good enough for this. 00:02:08 I'm not sure if that's the most recent version or not. 00:02:26 -!- fnordbot has joined. 00:03:13 ^show 00:03:13 echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 00:03:20 That seems very short. 00:03:27 It must've been an old version. But at least it worked. 00:03:44 ^rot13 hello jbeyq 00:03:45 uryyb world 00:03:57 I got it from ˜/src/fungot/data/fungot.dat on the laptop, because it was easier to boot than the actual fungot server and/or the desktop. 00:04:09 (Come on, even the ˜ is some freaky thing.) 00:04:20 ~ 00:04:30 `unidecode ˜ 00:04:33 ​[U+02DC SMALL TILDE] 00:04:39 `unidecode ~ 00:04:40 ​[U+007E TILDE] 00:04:47 I guess it's a small device 00:05:03 You could use ˜ if you have a strict quota on your home directory. 00:05:23 This is one of these "phablets", so it's not even that small. 00:05:27 (It's a Nexus 6.) 00:07:34 -!- skj3gg has joined. 00:08:01 fizzie: yes, 7 hex digits is enough since no malice was involved here. but it was easier to copy the whole output :) 00:09:30 What is weird is that the fungot.dat I provided also has (some) empty lines in the first 10. 00:09:42 According to my working hypothesis about empty lines, that shouldn't have worked. 00:10:05 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 00:10:19 I'm running with cfunge-0.3.3 00:10:38 Ohhh, ok. That makes "sense". 00:11:24 (I only compiled the other versions on my home PC, not on that server) 00:11:58 But I'm pretty sure what's on the fungot-server is some source-control checkout that's later than the 0.9 release, and at least with the fungot.dat it has that works. 00:12:07 Although maybe the newer fungot.dat no longer has any empty lines. 00:12:45 I really should have just copied that, since I'm pretty sure I even put that somewhere on the laptop just in case. But a quick 'locate' only found the one. 00:13:05 (Probably the new one was inside a tarball or something.) 00:14:19 Well, good enough for today, I think I'm off to sleep. 00:17:01 cheers, good night 00:17:41 Night. 00:19:11 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:47:37 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 00:48:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:57:22 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:03:57 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:39:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:48:25 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 01:49:49 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:53:25 -!- hjulle has joined. 02:06:08 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:07:06 -!- Froox has joined. 02:10:42 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:38:30 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:39:02 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:51:43 -!- skj3gg has joined. 02:54:53 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:56:22 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:59:33 -!- Melvar has joined. 03:09:52 -!- skj3gg has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:20:08 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:30:42 -!- skj3gg has joined. 03:31:50 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 03:32:29 Do you know how to set up a situation in Magic: the Gathering where you can control what cards both players will have in their hand in the subgame? Remember that opponent can mulligan, so you have to take that into consideration, too! 03:42:45 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 03:46:06 -!- oren has joined. 03:46:52 It seems that to make anything with multiple monitors work, you need to write some sh scripts that call xrandr 03:47:31 and work out the transformation matrices yourself. 03:47:51 luckily, i have taken a course on transformation matrices. 04:01:57 -!- seiken has joined. 04:07:15 xrandr --output VGA1 --transform -0.948611,0,1366,0,-0.948611,800,0,0,1 04:07:45 xrandr 04:07:46 -!- seiken has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:08:21 See, this is shy I keep different fonts on different terminals 04:16:13 crap. xfce's window placer keeps placing windows offscreen 04:16:42 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: .). 04:29:12 seems like I can't take a picture of my computer with my computer 04:44:35 Do you know if there is query URL for the book/chapter/verse of World English Bible? 04:47:13 hmm... 04:48:15 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?version=WEB&search=2%20Timothy%201:7 04:49:05 But, unfortunately that includes abunch of other stuff in the page 04:51:58 http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=Mt.+10%3A34&ver=web 04:58:12 http://holy.be/web/verse/genesis-chapter-30-verse-4/ 04:58:21 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:58:23 This one doesn't seem to be a search url 05:00:02 And you can isolate the verse by looking for the div like
She gave him Bilhah her servant as wife, and Jacob went in to her.
05:01:03 I notice their FAQ says "May I change or translate the World English Bible?" and their answer begins with "Yes and no. Because the World English Bible is God's Word, you may not do anything to change the meaning of the text. That is God's rule, not mine or any rule of man-made law. ..." 05:01:40 I dunno if the bible says that anywhere though 05:01:54 But really my opinion is, the Bible is just some small book compared to God's Word; but it is still something, and certainly does not make it worthless!! Nevertheless, if you do change the meaning, please don't call the new version the Bible. 05:02:05 It would be improper to do so. 05:02:36 I don't know what are your opinions of such thing 05:03:36 I guess the bible is definitely a historical text where the only "proper" version would be the one in hebrew and greek (and some aramaic) 05:04:51 Just like you can't change herodotus's Histories or Marx's Das Capital and claim it's the same text 05:06:08 And translations of those books are not really the same 05:07:16 Texts have names, this one is called "the bible", and to call any other text "the bible" is obviously improper 05:07:24 -!- adu has joined. 05:14:00 I guess I'm skeptical of any attempt to translate any work from any language into any other language 05:16:38 Even dumb comedy anime are completely butchered when they are translated. How could a book of mixed poetry, law, history and mythology like the bible hold up? 05:16:57 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:17:03 Well, they try to be as accurate as possible; you will probably inevitably lose something, although footnotes are often added for this and other reasons. 05:19:07 Of course mistakes are sometimes made; one section says "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", but some now believe that a better translation might be "poisoner". 05:19:17 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 05:19:55 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:20:28 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 05:23:39 -!- augur has joined. 05:26:55 I wasn't really thinking of mistakes, more... Languages sort of carry around the culture they come from around with them... 05:28:08 So you have weird things like people in anime saying "the club president is a nice person, right?" which is sooo stilted it's not even funny 05:28:28 Yes, that too; also the text in the Bible is very old, so that the culture is old too 05:30:09 So we might not even know enough about the culture to make a correct interpretation. 05:32:28 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:32:46 That is correct; but you can try to do best you can. Put relevant stuff about the way the old text was originally written in footnotes, stuff about culture, and keep the originals available so that people who understand it and can study it, will do so, and if more studies are made possibly you will figure out something new and fix it a bit better too. 05:35:16 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 05:36:42 Now I'm annoyed that translated manga don't have footnotes 05:37:47 I mean it would obviously be easier for them to find out the relevant information about modern japan! 05:38:22 I agree that I would like to have some footnotes in there too 05:39:10 Not as many as the Bible, but it would help to sometimes put in a few 05:39:46 Also they should have page numbers; I see many manga without page numbers, even though the page numbers are referenced in the table of contents. 05:39:55 like "it's totally normal to refer to someone by their title when directly addressing them" 05:40:18 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:40:52 page numbers. yes. they need them 05:45:10 Although some of these "translators" are too lazy to translate the table of centents 05:47:23 Even the Japanese version lacks page numbers even though it is referenced in the table of contents. 05:47:26 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:48:06 huh. All the japanese manga I have have them 05:50:25 By what authors? 05:50:41 I have Akagi, by Fukumoto 05:53:10 hataraku maou by wagahara, kirumi-beibe- by kaduho, nichijou by arawi keiichi, nanoha strikers the comics by uh... nagatani? 05:54:27 -!- augur_ has joined. 05:54:55 I don't know how many of those kanji are part of his family name and how many his personal name 05:56:22 oh, it's hasegawa 05:56:54 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:01:19 aqua by amano kozue, nadesiko by asamiya kia 06:01:25 ok now i'm just bragging 06:02:24 anyway, all those have page numbers... 06:02:48 well, not on all pages, but on enough 06:03:32 but I've seen many translators cut out the page numbers 06:04:01 (i think it might be a space-saving measure to make smaller archives?) 06:05:34 All I know is that Fukumoto manga doesn't have page numbers 06:05:57 hm... do you have digital or a real copy? 06:06:12 all those I listed were paper books 06:07:37 that's pretty odd not to have page numbers, in a digital release it would make sense, but not on paper 06:09:55 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:19:45 For example, Akagi is available on the kindle store. 06:23:26 holy crap, a lot of manga is available for really cheap on kindle store! 06:24:32 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 06:30:13 which has now motivated me to get out my credit card, and make my second-ever online transaction 06:38:55 I have it on paper 06:40:24 -!- Lymia has joined. 06:40:44 ah... beats me then :P 06:54:33 well you could always just write the numbers in then?? 06:59:53 some people don't like it when I write in my books... 07:02:00 -!- fnordbot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:09:09 but my copy of linux in a nutshell annotated by me and my father has saved my ass several times 07:13:00 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 07:21:14 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:22:39 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 07:26:32 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 07:57:54 Zenon Pylyshyn has an awesome name. 08:01:38 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:05:50 yes 08:06:45 He's only mentioned once in my KRR textbook, but I wish he was mentioned more than once 08:15:02 I just misread a sentence from his presidential address as "American foreign policy against the Unix operating system" 08:16:07 -!- chaosagent has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:18:39 i assume it actually said "ISIS" 08:22:18 oh, apparently it was in 1986... 08:24:37 I skipped an "and" 08:26:42 What do you call those electronic music things with the squares 08:26:54 mp3 players? 08:27:22 Dance Dance Revolution? 08:28:12 ohh, you mean Launchpad 08:29:09 I parsed that as (electronic (music things)) first 08:30:29 The ones that look like a 4 by 4 array of squares 08:30:34 And pressing the squares does things 08:31:40 Oooh yes, it is Launchpad 08:31:41 thanks 08:32:03 -!- Froox has joined. 08:34:52 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:56:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:59:47 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 09:00:07 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 09:07:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:15:43 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:16:34 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 09:17:11 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 09:17:32 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 09:17:36 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:23:18 -!- oren has joined. 09:25:41 somehow I can't accept this book using "formulas" 09:25:57 It has to be "formulae" 09:27:19 i think you're going to find this a hard policy 09:30:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:31:23 oren: they are both officially allowed, but "formulas" has more than 4 times as many google hits (with the quotes) 09:31:33 dangit 09:32:31 what's next, axises? lemmas? forums? 09:32:59 instead of axes, lemmata, and fora? 09:33:36 Their defiantly superior. 09:34:31 i'm pretty sure lemmas already won. i think axes is still hanging on. 09:34:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:35:16 not sure about fora. 09:35:31 oh god, what if people start referring to ninjas? 09:35:46 Jafet: *They're 09:35:57 * oerjan swats oren -----### 09:36:10 NOW YOU'RE JUST BEING SILLY 09:36:21 does japanese even _have_ a plural? 09:36:30 Ninjas, stealthy, inconspicuous spies and assassins 09:36:42 -!- White-Rabbit has joined. 09:36:42 exactly it doesnt! one ninja, two ninja 09:37:02 one tsunami, two tsunami 09:37:07 Red ninja, blue ninja 09:37:10 Jafet: surely you mean hashashins 09:37:42 That sounds like an amazing breakfast meal. 09:37:51 What about seraphim and mujahidin? 09:38:08 Are we going to essify them too? 09:38:28 seraphim is kept because it's cute. mujahedin is kept because people don't think of it as a plural. 09:38:34 (at least i don't.) 09:38:57 although i guess seraphs is used... 09:39:31 White-Rabbit: comes with a free dagger 09:39:52 and some brownies 09:40:07 Hey now woah there... I prefer to call them tiny swords. 09:40:13 oren: that's racist! 09:40:28 lol how? 09:40:49 brownies are a common way to serve hashish 09:41:17 just because hashashins have dark skin you don't get to call them brownies, oren 09:41:42 (did they, even? syrians aren't very dark.) 09:42:48 uhh... in Canada "brownies" means a sort of choclate cake cut into small pieces which can have fruit or coconut (or in this case, hashish) mixed in 09:43:31 oren, oerjan was making a joke 09:44:21 shocking, i know 09:44:25 oh. I thought this was another place where Canadian is different from English or 09:44:31 Sooooo confused....... *brain leaks out of ear a little* 09:44:48 American 09:45:04 White-Rabbit: if you have brain leak problems i don't recommend staying in this channel hth 09:45:10 -!- Froo has joined. 09:45:51 i've had brownies (no fruit, though) in the local coffee bars. 09:46:09 at least they called them that 09:46:30 The hashishin didn't serve brownies, you lawless anachronist 09:46:48 Jafet: only because they didn't have chocolate hth 09:47:21 i'm sure they had other things to poison 09:48:10 `relcome White-Rabbit 09:48:10 Like? 09:48:25 Hello! 09:49:00 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:49:01 White-Rabbit: i'm not very up to date (especially in the middle ages) to middle-east sweets and cakes 09:49:02 ​White-Rabbit: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 09:49:12 Hackego is slow today 09:49:13 slowest bot in the west 09:49:48 Ha, I just got that. It really is slow. 09:50:13 it's often been slower when it's been idle a while, i think the VM needs to get up and running 09:50:17 `echo hi 09:50:20 hi 09:50:25 slightly better 09:50:42 also with your nick you should get this at once: 09:50:45 `? mad 09:50:46 ​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 09:51:40 I can literally hear my dad's voice in my head reading that... 09:52:09 a sure sign of madness. 09:52:14 Ha, I imagine a voice reminiscent of the Stanley Parable voice. 09:52:17 oren, oerjan is your father 09:52:34 Taneb: i find that thought disturbing 09:52:46 IT CAN'T BE! IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!! 09:53:03 The results are in.... 09:53:10 seek your feelings, you know it to be hogwash 09:53:20 * oren hasn't actaully watched any of the star wars movies 09:53:43 oren: i think 99% of what i know about star wars i got from reading darths & droids 09:53:55 ok maybe a _slight_ overestimate there 09:54:26 however, d&d has just done that scene (twisted _and_ double twisted) 09:56:20 * oerjan actually watched empire strikes back once, the only one he's seen in a proper cinema. although he didn't remember everything. 09:57:25 I saw Revenge of the Sith in the cinema 09:57:39 I was slightly too young for any of the others 09:57:43 Especially the original trilogy 09:59:22 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 09:59:50 I'm getting sleepy, good night, day, evening to you all. 09:59:52 it's possible i could have watched some of the original trilogy on original release if they got to the small town i'm from, but i didn't. 10:00:03 -!- White-Rabbit has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 10:00:30 i haven't really gone to the cinema that much overall. 10:00:49 * oerjan vaguely recalls watching ET in cinema 10:03:55 i also recall going to watch woody allen's Zelig because the blurb somehow intrigued me; however i didn't actually see it because the cinematographer begged me not to insist that he put it on for just one person :P 10:05:54 The last movie i watched in a theatre was Apollo 18 10:07:28 i think the last i watched was Prisoner of Azkaban 10:08:07 accompanying a young cousin 10:08:33 The last time I went to the cinema was... last Wednesday 10:10:01 The last time I went to the cinema was last weekend... though before that it was probably three or so years ago 10:10:05 fiendish 10:12:19 I went to the cinema the week before, too 10:12:24 I like going to the cinema 10:12:40 It's so rare when a film I want to see comes out but then like 4 happen at once 10:17:39 `unidecode ˆ 10:17:40 ​[U+02C6 MODIFIER LETTER CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT] 10:22:07 Although I don't know if I can see Big Hero 6 10:27:00 Taneb: which ones? 10:27:06 also, hello everyone 10:27:46 b_jonas, I managed to see Kingsman and Jupiter Ascending 10:27:51 Can't cabal tell me what dependencies I need for my own package? 10:28:13 Didn't get to see Predestination, but that saw a really limited release anyway, and I still need to see Big Hero 6 10:29:01 the last one I saw in a cinema was Gru 2. It's not bad, but I didn't completely like it because it's sort of short. The villain is defeated before he even has a chance to start to rule the world with his minions. 10:31:42 i.e. cabal inspect foo.hs and it will print the versions and names of all imported modules 10:31:44 (apparently there's a third film in the works, prepared for 2017) 10:33:32 -!- gamemanj has joined. 10:35:17 What happened to fnordbot? 10:53:32 Taneb 10:53:44 Apparently all the females are pretty neat in Big Hero 6 10:54:01 From the comments that all the artists I scoot around seem to say 11:19:07 Is this correct? http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.2 11:25:08 -!- gamemanj has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:26:31 zzo38: dunno, but it's scary. four black lotuses in your hand, plus a Mindslaver and other heavy duty cards… 11:29:47 You can't actually cast Black Lotus or Mindslaver at these times though 11:30:14 the opponent has Wishes but nothing relevant in his sideboard? interesting 11:30:31 nor do you have anything relevant 11:31:20 so the first step solving the puzzle is to figure out the opponent's plan(s) 11:31:29 in particular, whether he can win this turn 11:31:48 oh, he has a Concordant Crossroad 11:31:53 so he can win by attacking 11:32:19 but he also has a Copper Tablet 11:32:44 what's a "Somberworld Sage"? 11:33:14 zzo38: what's "Somberworld Sage"? 11:33:24 A 0/1 creature with "{T}: Add three manas of one color into your mana pool; can be used only to cast creature spells." 11:33:35 is that a real M:tG card? 11:33:39 Yes. 11:33:40 if so, in what set? 11:33:44 is its name typoed? 11:33:55 Avacyn Restored 11:34:00 Yes its name is typoed; thanks 11:34:24 aha, Somberwald Sage 11:34:25 The proper name is "Somberwald Sage" 11:38:12 ok, so now I have to figure out whether the opponent has some sneaky way to cast the Mirrorweave and win with Biovisionary even if you somehow kill his Emrakul 11:39:31 you have a Saharazad in your library? this puzzle is getting even more scary 11:39:51 Shahrazad 11:41:49 Yes, you do have Shahrazad 11:43:44 maybe that's what the wishes are for 11:46:42 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:51:47 -!- arjanb has joined. 11:54:57 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:55:44 -!- Koen__ has joined. 11:55:45 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:58:21 You can learn if it is or not. 11:58:31 (Or if they are for anything...?) 12:00:31 is there a card to turn wishes into horses 12:01:04 sure, a horse in your sideboard 12:01:23 NOT WHAT I MEANT 12:01:55 Nightmare is the bestest one 12:03:01 * oerjan learns of the existence of The Wishing Horse of Oz 12:17:09 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 12:17:20 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 12:19:15 ummm 12:19:34 auuum 12:20:04 why did he change his name and then change it back 12:21:21 i generally assume that's because people are making a joke on another channel 12:21:45 although i've got this vague feeling nortti has used lawspeaker before 12:22:04 wait, nicks carry across channels? 12:22:12 sure 12:22:19 on a single irc network 12:23:02 it happens when nortti is creating laws in another channel 12:23:12 olsner: PLAUSIBLE 12:25:01 oren: in fact, it's possible to be on the network and _not_ on any channel, only speaking privately. 12:25:26 HackEgo got stuck that way for days recently 12:26:47 olsner: in this case, I used it to test new auth system of oonbotti2 12:27:37 NOOO you broke my theory 12:28:14 and usually I use it when I resolve disputes regarding the legal code of #osdev-offtopic 12:28:22 aha 12:31:49 on the bright side, I finally got the dual monitor overhead to work 12:32:55 http://img.ctrlv.in/img/15/03/01/54f3069e5934c.png The upper part is suspended horizontally above my head 12:35:23 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 12:38:01 oerjan: indeed, I've even had two normal connections to freenode just to use a temporary alternate nick on a channel 12:39:05 -!- diginet has quit (Quit: diginet has quit!). 12:41:34 -!- diginet has joined. 12:43:38 -!- fnordbot has joined. 12:46:06 @tell gamemanj What happened to fnordbot? <-- the bot doesn't reconnect by itself 12:46:06 Consider it noted. 12:46:06 int-e:. " ford," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine," ford hissed at him, " two to the power of two hundred and thirty-nine thousand li 12:46:33 another loop. 12:47:11 But the main problem I have with the model is that it doesn't know when to stop. 12:48:28 clearly this bot doesn't have fungot's sublime intellect. 12:49:09 fnordbot 12:49:10 nortti: too? " da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da 12:49:13 hmm 12:50:47 i'd say there's clear evidence it's still on the baby stage hth 12:52:31 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 12:53:11 wait, does it think I'm its father? 12:53:25 no fnordbot, I'm not your da 12:53:25 nortti: an invisible to himself, " to have turned into a bowl, " have you got a towel, it says, " is big. you must come with me?" said ford, " he was a hell of a lot. " so all i have to do in order to find this wretched," he said at last, " i don't know," said the vogon guard. " er, that was easy, i got a lift a finger to save you a lot. " so," said ford, " to have turned into a bowl, " have you got a towel, it says, " is big. 12:59:39 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:16:04 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:16:58 Either it actually stopped this time, or it got lucky with the length cutoff 13:22:03 da, hmm. 13:22:37 "da da da dum" ... yeah I can see how that would loop 13:24:36 Desperately [Ford] grabbed for the only bit of culture he knew offhand - he hummed the first bar of Beethoven's Fifth. "Da da da dum! Doesn't that stir anything in you?" 13:25:55 It did stir something in fnordbot. 13:25:56 Jafet: would work, a mere nothingth of a second, and then his mind to have good ideas with, it must be said, some success. " so," said ford, " the vogons run the ship, the dentrassis. you want to go to work at," and he turned. " but the programme will take all the little white furry things with the cheese, unexpectedly to have blown up. it then?" he didn't look up. when we were kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the lang 13:27:09 I love this bit, "but the programme will take all the little white furry things with the cheese, unexpectedly to have blown up." ... is it the cheese or the mice that blow up? 13:28:57 -!- Fleur has joined. 13:29:08 oerjan: It's good if it's stupid, I want the real fungot to come back eventually. 13:32:50 oh, the sun has risen 13:36:27 oerjan: aren't you located in Japan? 13:36:41 nope hth 13:36:42 hmpf 13:36:54 oren: Sorry, I meant to ask you. 13:37:02 oerjan: I knew that. Tab completion failed me. 13:37:10 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/pseudoscience-north-whats-happening-to-the-university-of-toronto/ nah i'm located in this god-forsaken place 13:37:15 that japanese exclave known as toronto 13:37:17 possibly I pressed "e" instead of "r". 13:37:35 Okay. 13:38:02 One of the not-Americas on America. 13:39:25 right. 13:42:56 oᕂn 13:43:32 `unidecode oᕂn 13:43:55 -!- vanila has joined. 13:44:41 No output. 13:45:19 `unidecode oᕂn 13:45:26 ​[U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+1542 CANADIAN SYLLABICS RE] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] 13:45:53 clearly the correct spellin 13:50:06 oh addendum to the topic: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/chuchus.png 13:55:53 -!- hjulle has joined. 14:00:50 ah the monthly reappearance of that awful reddit ad 14:06:06 -!- boily has joined. 14:06:32 afternoily 14:09:52 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:12:50 boerjan matin! 14:14:26 I liked it when reddit had a scam advert 14:14:38 you know those ones that pretend to be an alert box, and it makes you download a malware .exe 14:14:54 then the community complained about it and reddit said they wouldn't let that company buy ads again 14:16:58 vanila: yeah, I've heared a lot about those fake antivirus stuff – not in the context of reddit in particular 14:18:38 it was good how reddit people did something about it, and the site itself did too 14:18:54 its rare people would get listened to 14:25:33 -!- Ronan1 has joined. 14:26:03 -!- Ronan1 has left. 14:28:07 http://trevorjim.com/c-and-cplusplus-are-not-context-free/ 14:28:09 neat 14:28:37 lexing depends on the result of parsing seems hilarious/awful 14:30:05 * int-e wonders about "The grammar is ambiguous" 14:33:55 Oh it's just postulated that the grammar should be unambiguous. That's not entirely unreasonable, but not what people generally do in formal language theory when talking about context-free languages. 14:48:18 I think only grammars can be ambiguous? so it seems it shouldn't show up when talking about the language 14:48:57 i thinkt hey mean if you applied the CFG formalism, there would be an ambiguity in if/else handling - therefore it can't be context free 14:49:03 "On the road to Isengard our developers will continue to focus on removing old legacy code, usability and user friendliness." 14:49:10 a noble goal 14:49:40 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 14:50:12 olsner: "However, in practice we care about the actual parse tree determined by the grammar. In that sense, I think that for us to call the syntax context free we require an unambiguous grammar." <-- that's the argument from an earlier blog post 14:54:37 I think the standard doesn' 14:54:42 argh 14:55:13 t specify that it must parse to a specific tree, but rather the as-if rule applies and you can use whatever grammar you want as long as it works the same way 14:56:20 it might very well be impossible to make an unambiguous grammar, or a context-free one, but that's probably not what is being proved there 14:56:53 yes thats the claim 14:57:00 and i think they are showing that 14:57:02 It's besides the point anyway. The fact that using an undefined identifier is an error alone makes the languages context-sensitive. 14:57:36 true 14:57:37 It's just that CFGs are a convenient way of over-approximating languages without losing too much precision. 14:57:55 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:58:06 thats a really cool way to look at it 15:18:05 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:30:06 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:35:31 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MOSAIC CHICKEN). 15:37:33 -!- adu has joined. 15:39:58 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:08:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:11:04 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:16:02 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:16:22 fwiw I'm working on a lispified object notation with validation support 16:21:17 what do you mean validation? 16:21:53 validation against some sort of schema, I suppose 16:23:40 oh like XML? 16:26:28 There's a schema thing for JSON as well, FWIW 16:26:59 or s/FWIW/btw/ 16:33:40 it's like a tree-regex 16:33:41 ? 16:35:31 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:44:38 -!- Gregor has left ("Leaving"). 16:44:48 -!- Gregor has joined. 16:47:07 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:51:15 http://codepad.org/OQLzwnlF 16:51:24 yes, validate against a schema 16:51:56 why don't you use an s-expression syntax for the schema 16:53:06 I like {} for repetition; it's nice and compact. 16:53:21 its not s-expression 16:53:29 I don't like the #RAW things 16:53:37 vanila: I don't care much about s-expressions 16:53:48 yeah #RAW sucks a little bit 16:53:54 i think i can get rid of that 16:54:04 then use XML or Json, not s-expressions 16:54:18 vanila: though they are a natural notation for xml-without-attributes 16:54:38 vanila: why does the schema have to use s-exp notation? 16:54:53 this would just be the same mistake as xslt made 16:55:12 xslt is powerful, but its syntax sucks. 16:55:50 http://codepad.org/k8m37DeH 16:55:55 int-e: much better :) 16:56:04 [] is optional 16:56:12 {} is repetition 16:56:18 it's not self-expressible 16:56:59 true 16:57:03 but I don't care about that really :) 16:58:09 I guess you could go the Relax NG route and have several syntaxes. 17:02:41 thats lame :/ 17:03:30 It's a good example, I think. And I've only ever used the compact syntax. 17:03:35 I'm not intending on validation validation files. 17:03:37 :) 17:04:49 [wiki] [[VerboseFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42065&oldid=37899 * 212.56.100.202 * (+0) MANDITORY -> MANDATORY (really glaringly obvious spelling) 17:06:49 https://github.engineering.zhaw.ch/munt/RLON 17:06:58 ^- soure code 17:11:34 Awesome. 17:11:47 I don't recall if Racket has an S-expression form for JSON. 17:11:49 (persons is actually a raw match 17:11:51 like 17:11:53 I love it for HTML though. 17:12:01 you can match against (#STRING 9) 17:12:04 where 9 is a raw value 17:12:37 *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(#STRING 9)" "('hi' 9)" 17:12:37 True 17:12:37 *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(#STRING 9)" "('hi' 10)" 17:12:39 False 17:14:43 *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(#STRING {9})" "('hi' 9 9 9)" 17:14:44 True 17:14:49 there's no OR though 17:14:50 like 17:15:08 {9 | 0} which would match against ('hi' 9 9 0 9 0) or something like that 17:15:09 but 17:15:13 I guess that can be implemented 17:15:42 not sure about the syntax thugh 17:15:44 *though 17:16:02 hm | should work 17:17:47 what about grouping... (foo 1 | 2 a | b) looks incomprehensible 17:18:06 *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(#STRING {9 | 0})" "('hi' 9 9 0 0 9)" 17:18:07 True 17:18:21 grouping. hm... 17:18:24 right 17:31:30 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:33:33 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 17:41:18 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:42:06 what's 2 a anyway? 17:42:09 you mean (2 a)? 17:42:16 (foo 1) | (2 a) | b 17:42:23 2 a is nothing 17:42:30 i think 17:42:34 or wait 17:42:45 (foo "bar" 9) and (foo 9 "bar")? 17:42:51 mroman: I want foo with two items, one either 1 or 2, the other either a or b. 17:43:01 (arguments, children, whatever) 17:43:02 you want that as (foo "bar" 9 | 9 "bar")? 17:43:22 you could still write it as (foo "bar" 9) | (foo 9 "bar") 17:43:26 no, I'd want that as (foo "bar" 9) | (foo 9 "bar") 17:43:37 that's possible 17:43:42 but I don't want to multiply out cartesian products 17:43:43 but 2 a itself is nothing 17:44:05 (foo 1 a) | (foo 2 a) | (foo 1 b) | (foo 2 b) 17:44:13 I see 17:45:21 it might be handy to have a (#PERMUTE a b c) 17:57:34 *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(<<1 | 2> | 3> <2 | 4>)" "(1 4)" 17:57:36 True 17:57:45 gotta use < > for parantheses :D 17:58:48 does <1 | 2 | 3> work, too? 17:59:33 no 17:59:47 due to this left recursive thing 17:59:52 parsec's not really good at 18:00:21 you could try parsing that as <1 | <2 | 3>> 18:00:56 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:00:58 i.e. make it right-recursive, which generally works. there's also a manySepBy (or similar) combinator 18:01:29 you shouldn't use OR in a schema anyway :) 18:01:43 well 18:01:44 hm 18:01:49 I guess you should 18:01:50 Sorry, I like ADTs (algebraic...) a lot. 18:02:03 how do you do right recursive? 18:02:09 parseFoo; char '|'; parseFoo; 18:02:12 that won't work with parsec 18:02:26 it will run out of memory and crash 18:02:59 mroman: parseFoo = parseFooElem >> char '|' >> parseFoo <|> parseFooElem 18:03:25 yeah 18:03:28 that works 18:03:47 (well, it needs a 'try') 18:05:17 (and it should probably be refactored so that the parseFooElem isn't done twice if the first alternative fails. I think I would use ... *looks up the actual name* sepBy1) 18:05:24 *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(foo | bar <1 | 2> <7 | 8 | 9>)" "(bar 2 9)" 18:05:25 True 18:05:38 < > are optional 18:05:53 1 | 2 3 | 4 is the same thing as <1 | 2><3 | 4> 18:05:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:06:25 *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "(foo | bar <1 | 2> <7 | 8 | 9>) | (no 0)" "(no 0)" 18:06:28 True 18:07:08 you can't validate trees anyway I think 18:07:19 mroman: As I said earlier, (foo 1 | 2 a | b) looks incomprehensible. 18:08:23 I mean 18:08:28 you can't validate recursive stuff 18:08:46 not yet at least 18:08:58 that would require definitons like uhm 18:09:18 "node := (node #INTEGER )" 18:09:30 it's bad that you're making up some complicated syntax to parse with haskell, just so you can validate (parse) some s-exps... 18:09:40 #atree := (leaf #STRING) | (node #atree #STRING #atree) 18:09:43 probably $node to not confuse it with the name thing 18:09:49 $, whatever :) 18:10:03 vanila: why's that bad? 18:10:52 int-e: gimme a sec 18:10:56 that shouldn't be too hard to implement 18:16:04 data ATree = Leaf String | Node ATree String ATree deriving Read 18:17:44 data Wheel = Wheel | Reinvented Wheel 18:23:40 *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "main ::= $tree tree ::= (leaf #INTEGER) | (node $tr 18:23:44 ee #INTEGER $tree)" "(node (leaf 0) 1 (leaf 2))" 18:23:44 yeah 18:23:46 suck it 18:23:49 True 18:24:14 -!- Fleur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:25:34 vanila: in any case, it's not sad. making wheels seems to be a good way to learn carpentry :) 18:25:55 I always reinvent the wheel 18:25:59 that's kinda my personality disorder 18:26:17 vanila: well... 18:26:26 is there yet a formal language to validate s-expressions? 18:26:27 fwiw? 18:26:33 except EBNF probably 18:26:58 but this is cooler 18:27:06 it's designed for S-Expressions 18:27:58 I could even implement type parameters 18:28:07 tree a = (leaf a) 18:28:10 stuff like that 18:30:14 I'm planning on using RLON for some dataformats 18:30:28 -!- Fleur has joined. 18:30:28 and this way I can validate and parse them without writing specific parsers for each one 18:31:22 -!- Frooxius has joined. 18:35:14 also from a scale on 1 to 10 i'm pretty high right now 18:37:00 11? 18:37:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:38:42 now 18:38:43 about 9 18:38:45 *no 18:43:26 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:58:55 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 19:02:45 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 19:12:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:13:38 -!- Patashu has joined. 19:15:37 but I know 19:15:41 everything I do is shit 19:15:47 That's kinda my life 19:23:35 oh no, the dress has made it to xkcd (and I'm late looking at it) 19:27:15 -!- adu has joined. 19:33:03 the dress? 19:34:13 the blue dress that some people think is white 19:34:38 we discussed it yesterday? http://swiked.tumblr.com/post/112073818575/guys-please-help-me-is-this-dress-white-and 19:34:50 (but you may have missed it) 19:35:11 -!- gamemanj has joined. 19:35:45 it's blue and gold 19:36:01 or maybe blueish and brownish 19:36:09 but what's the deal with that dress color? 19:36:28 Well, apparently people genuinely disagree about its color. 19:36:39 but why? 19:37:08 sure on the bottom there are some very clear blue stripes that could classify as white 19:37:11 and some are dark as black 19:37:12 I guess 19:37:13 so 19:38:06 but saying it's blue and black completely ignores that there's brown/gold in there? 19:38:07 its an optical illusion 19:38:12 http://motherboard.vice.com/en_ca/read/there-is-the-dress-and-only-the-dress has some images on top that may explain why 19:38:32 * gamemanj just read the logs, and now knows what the Friday XKCD was about. Thanks, it made no sense before... 19:38:36 oh n, not the dress again 19:38:37 but I have not managed to coax the picture to look like the first one (where the dress does indeed look very much like a white one) 19:38:41 it's appread in two webcomics already 19:38:50 ...People disagree on the definition of colours. 19:38:59 there's just not enough context on that image, because most of it is the dress 19:39:26 It is just an optical illusion due to terrible white balancing. 19:39:38 so all those three pictures have the same dress in it? 19:40:02 if it were an optical solution a simple RGB check would tell you 19:40:13 mroman, that link I haven't checked out. 19:40:15 since optical illusions don't affect RGB values 19:40:35 Just check the recent xkcd on the matter for example 19:40:47 I understand the gold/black one; the material is dark, brownish. But given the bright environment, mistaking the dress for a white one is an unbelievable stretch to me. (the xkcd illustration is good, but the photo doesn't match the left version with the dark background) 19:40:53 Terrible white balancing does affect RGB values-it's a post-processing filter. 19:42:28 well 19:42:39 gamemanj, well, the terrible white balancing moved the apparently dark blue dress (I saw a link to the store that sold the dress somewhere) so it ended up just in the middle and ambiguous 19:42:39 Then I don't give a shit about it until I have the actual dress in my hand 19:42:48 (the matter is made worse because the dress fabric is very smooth, I bet highly reflective as fabrics go) 19:42:50 RGB values don't match 19:42:51 so 19:42:55 they have been tempered with 19:43:26 mroman, in the photos at the top of the page? Yeah probably to illustrate the point 19:43:42 Isn't the middle one the original? 19:44:12 mroman, http://www.wired.com/2015/02/science-one-agrees-color-dress/ 19:44:24 And a billion other hits when just googling for "the dress" 19:45:21 I understand the gold/black one; the material is dark, brownish. But given the bright environment, mistaking the dress for a white one is an unbelievable stretch to me. (the xkcd illustration is good, but the photo doesn't match the left version with the dark background) <-- the middle dress does currently look white/brown to me, rather than blue, which it did when I first saw it. Can't flip it at will either. 19:45:30 I've seen this (also crappy) photo of (allegedly) the same dress: http://media.tumblr.com/ec387ec0bb03230268a9e905d74097d9/tumblr_inline_nkebmcshcG1svicb3.jpg 19:46:24 it's believable given how overexposed the "original" photo must be. 19:46:47 Yes, that and terrible white balance 19:46:48 Vorpal: not even in contrast with the black/white spotted chair in the background? 19:46:58 Hm? 19:47:04 http://mroman.ch/stichrot/ 19:47:07 http://media.tumblr.com/ec387ec0bb03230268a9e905d74097d9/tumblr_inline_nkebmcshcG1svicb3.jpg is blue 19:47:12 I wish I still had this script :( 19:47:16 Vorpal: mind, I see a light blue dress. 19:47:38 Vorpal: the high reflectivity is rationalization. 19:47:42 int-e, A white dress in blue light is what I see 19:47:53 Vorpal: interesting. 19:47:59 int-e, And I saw a blue dress in yellow light yesterday 19:48:33 It is a god damn optical illusion, not more interesting than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grey_square_optical_illusion.PNG 19:48:39 Both A and B are the same hue 19:48:46 As shown in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Same_color_illusion_proof2.png 19:48:46 yeah who cares 19:48:48 [wiki] [[Integral]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42066 * OriginalOldMan * (+2567) Created Integral 19:49:51 Vorpal: I know all that. Maybe too well :) 19:50:12 int-e, oh? 19:50:28 [wiki] [[Integral]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42067&oldid=42066 * OriginalOldMan * (+41) Added Categories 19:51:31 Anybody in here playing chess? 19:51:58 ..."playing", as in in the current state of playing? 19:52:09 If so, then no. 19:52:29 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42068&oldid=41936 * OriginalOldMan * (+15) Added Integral 19:52:47 mroman: I know the rules ;) 19:53:22 no not current 19:53:27 as in "sometimes plays it" 19:53:38 I wanna get into chess a little bit 19:53:40 :H 19:53:45 curently I only know the rules 19:55:34 mroman, I think zzo38 maybe? He did something with chess inspired games a couple of years ago at least 19:56:20 Vorpal: The xkcd illustration works for me. But in the photo, the surroundings are always bright. So I haven't managed to see a white dress yet, except on the artificially white-balanced version. 19:56:42 Right 19:56:49 * int-e shuts up (but for how long?) 19:56:57 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:57:03 The xkcd one is exaggerated to illustrate the point. 19:57:54 -!- Froox has joined. 19:59:06 Hah. "The fact that a single image could polarize the entire Internet into two aggressive camps is, let’s face it, just another Thursday." 19:59:52 its like that math problem 20:00:08 http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/03/130312_SCI_FacebookMathQ.jpg.CROP.article250-medium.jpg 20:00:18 (annoying and uninteresting) 20:00:51 -!- Froox has quit (Client Quit). 20:01:32 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:06:35 Sorry, can't stop. I feel this article is quite informative (save the last sentence): http://www.wired.com/2015/02/science-one-agrees-color-dress/ 20:07:26 :/ 20:12:21 -!- idris-bot has joined. 20:17:45 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 20:18:42 mroman, int-e: This also explains the dress well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw0PlGpaqy4 20:19:10 int-e: nice article 20:19:54 -!- vanila has left ("Leaving"). 20:20:00 'He even speculated, perhaps jokingly, that the white-gold prejudice favors the idea of seeing the dress under strong daylight. “I bet night owls are more likely to see it as blue-black,” Conway says.' 20:20:05 FireFly, I linked that one just earlier 20:20:20 It'd be interesting to see what a survey would result in 20:20:28 Vorpal: oh, I guess I wasn't here then 20:22:31 it is literally the first google hit for "the dress" right now... 20:23:00 -!- nys has joined. 20:24:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:25:15 does css3 have these thingies that can be resized? 20:25:19 resizable divs? 20:25:31 I'm sure you could use js for that? 20:25:40 man fuck js 20:25:44 Agreed 20:25:58 Static HTML with no scripts for the win 20:26:55 Though that can be hard to find these days 20:27:01 Why not go for Gopher, while you're on the slope to simplicity-then we're one step closer to finishing the Plan To Make Everyone Use Befunge Computers. 20:27:30 * gamemanj starts to cackle. It is very evil. 20:27:42 gamemanj, talk to zzo38 for that, he runs a gopher server 20:27:48 does resize work on phones? 20:27:53 theres the resize css3 property 20:27:54 Try it? 20:28:28 I tested on website on my phone and tablet as well 20:28:35 Though my site is very simple 20:28:45 Vorpal:(on gopher) Yes, that's the server I found about Gopher on :) However, unfortunately the server says it's written in FreeBASIC...not good enough. 20:29:27 I saw one in python a while ago 20:29:29 * gamemanj may have gone a little mad with befunge. 20:29:30 yeah it works 20:29:32 But yeah, screw that 20:29:39 but it's realy user unfriendly on phones :( 20:30:50 mroman, what does the attribute do? 20:31:59 Your browser will add a control at the bottom-right corner of the element 20:32:09 And let you resize it? Okay 20:32:11 which allows you to resize the element using drag and drop 20:32:13 yep 20:32:17 but it sucks on phones 20:32:26 at least on mine 20:32:26 mroman, does it work on Opera Mini? Hehe 20:32:31 it's not precise enough 20:32:34 it works in google chrome 20:32:46 but it's really hard to resize it correctly with your fingers 20:32:55 Okay 20:32:58 so I'm using a combination of resize: vertical; overflow-y: scroll; 20:33:55 I believe the bug reporting system at work allows resizing for example. Probably in JS thoug 20:33:58 though* 20:34:34 I think some browsers already had resizable elements before css3 20:34:41 but usually just for textarea 20:37:04 hm 20:37:10 does css3 have a "expand on click"? 20:37:17 that'd be better than scroll+resize actually 20:38:51 hm 20:38:54 there's input:checked 20:38:57 that'd could work 20:38:58 hehe 20:43:07 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 20:46:24 Vorpal: http://mroman.ch/index.html 20:46:46 you can match on input:checked + i + p# 20:47:45 (it also uses resize) 20:49:27 -!- GeekDude has joined. 20:49:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:50:24 although js is quite nice 20:50:34 the comment system is javascript 20:50:40 and it's quite cool that something like that exists 20:50:53 you can just embed a little js snippet and your static site has a commenting system 20:51:51 No it doesn't, unless you use an external site that has server side scripts 20:52:08 He does-it's Disqus. 20:52:35 Also, that "little js snippet" actually is just a loader for a VERY BIG script... 20:52:40 Ah I have noscript on 20:52:46 Right 20:52:54 Here is a fully static site: https://vorpal.se/ 20:55:48 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 20:56:01 Nice and simple, it seems. 20:56:38 this is the dullest website :p 20:58:00 Mind, ZZO38's website is even duller unless you have a network terminal and the Gopher RFC document... 20:58:17 (and even then there's not much describing where to go) 20:58:58 Vorpal at least has a decent index of projects :) 20:59:28 this is the dullest website :p <-- yes it is 21:00:00 Vorpal at least has a decent index of projects :) <-- I think I probably made some other stuff that is out there, and of course, a lot of unpublished stuff 21:00:11 Maybe, but it's SOMETHING. 21:00:29 zzo38 has nothing as far as HTTP goes. "Please use the gopher service.",anyone? 21:00:53 Yeah 21:01:04 there are http proxies for gopher iirc 21:01:47 That's what I used at first. Then I read the Gopher RFC, and then started work on a object-oriented language to compile to Befunge. (yes, those are related) 21:02:07 gamemanj, 98 or 93? 21:02:10 I assume 98 21:02:16 98, it needs the SOCK fingerprint. 21:02:29 For object orientation?? 21:02:30 Weird 21:02:37 No, for Gopher. 21:02:46 Which interpreter are you running it on? 21:03:08 CCBI, for now. 21:03:19 Hm I forget if efunge has SOCK 21:03:27 gamemanj, not CCBI2? 21:03:35 Weird, is CCBI1 still around 21:04:02 ...The archive is called: ccbi-2.1 21:04:46 Ah 21:05:04 Looks like efunge is missing SOCK 21:06:52 Currently the language is quite esoteric. Want to see a program which eats up all available RAM? 21:07:13 Sure 21:07:40 In the "meant to be interpreted by a interpreter written in befunge" format or the "assembly-like" format? 21:07:48 First is more esoteric :) 21:07:52 Uh, source format? 21:08:06 And the befunge code too 21:08:31 ...Currently I'm still working on the language, so I'm using a testing interpreter written in Lua. 21:08:39 gamemanj, I would like to see a functional language compiled to befunge, with closures and all that 21:09:13 ...I'm probably not going to have closures, I'm trying to keep it REALLY simple. 21:09:33 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:09:38 http://mroman.ch/index.html 21:09:50 I has border radius right now 21:10:18 But there's nothing stopping a interpreter(whichever language you want) being written to run on top of a interpreter(my language) written to run on a interpreter(befunge). 21:10:35 mroman: Oooh, circular borders! 21:14:45 -!- rodgort has joined. 21:17:39 Vorpal: Here's the instruction list: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/instructionlist.txt 21:17:52 [wiki] [[Integral]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42069&oldid=42067 * OriginalOldMan * (+6220) Added Fibonacci Number Program 21:19:07 gamemanj, and you are compiling it to optimised befunge? 21:20:06 Depends-again, this is all planned. For now, it's just being interpreted by a Lua interpreter while I work on making a decent language to use. 21:20:38 I'm keeping the instructions simple so that when I'm done, it should be quick to get befunge output (compiled or interpreted) 21:20:51 -!- chaosagent has joined. 21:23:08 Where is fungot 21:23:10 fizzie, ! 21:23:34 @tell fizzie fungot is missing 21:23:34 Consider it noted. 21:23:46 @messages 21:23:47 You don't have any messages 21:24:12 There's fnordbot, which is int-e's "temporary replacement". 21:24:13 gamemanj: their way. " no you can't possibly, let out a wild whoop in major thirds, threw ford prefect, " it's dark," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the language. a towel, it says, " is big. you must come with me?" said ford, " you reckon, what's the problem? a sudden silence afterwards." " you just let the machines began to sink downwa 21:24:56 Vorpal, fungot is trapped in a house without internet 21:25:05 For at least two more weeks I think 21:25:50 We are currently...fungotless. *dark evil thunderclouds magically appear* 21:26:21 Ah 21:26:48 gamemanj, What prefix does it use? 21:27:06 ^help 21:27:10 @help 21:27:10 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 21:27:12 !help 21:27:12 Vorpal: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information. 21:27:13 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 21:27:21 ^bf ++++++++++[->++++++++++<]. 21:27:24 No idea. 21:27:29 ;help 21:27:32 ...Oh, forgot the >. 21:27:36 >help 21:27:38 ^bf ++++++++++[->++++++++++<]>. 21:27:39 d 21:27:47 ^source 21:27:51 Nope? 21:27:57 It isn't a fungot 21:28:55 ^bf ++++++++++[->++++++++++<]>+++++.<++++++++[->>++++<<]>>.<--------.+++++++++++++. 21:28:55 i an 21:29:25 ^help 21:29:41 ...Okay, so it doesn't respond to ^help, but it responds to bf. 21:30:00 ^ul 21:30:02 Hm 21:30:07 Forgot underload 21:30:38 Time to [strikeout]steal[/strikeout] acquire a hello world program in Underload. 21:30:54 Ah, this one on Esolang will do nicely. 21:30:56 ^ul (Hello, world!)S 21:30:57 Hello, world! 21:31:32 ^ul ((Hi)S:^):^ 21:31:32 HiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHiHi ...too much output! 21:31:37 Vorpal: It's got an old copy of fungot.dat I gave int-e. 21:31:45 Ah 21:33:19 And Taneb's summary was correct. (Or technically the house will get internet in two days, but I won't be here to set it up for two weeks. (Great timing.)) 21:33:57 fizzie, ah 21:34:03 fizzie, where are you going? 21:34:48 Vorpal: Mountain View, Google HQ. 21:34:54 fizzie, i experimented with the fish eye panorama feature in the google camera app yesterday, it wasn't too bad provided you didn't zoom in 21:35:10 Because then the bad stitching showed up 21:35:29 For now, at least we have fnordbot-WHAT??? Google HQ? ...really? 21:35:30 gamemanj: more. " why," a voice said " i seem to be having tremendous difficulty in finding the floor. " what," said trillian, " but those of finely calculated the cumulative effect is this? all his heirs are now long dead, and this is frankie, " a simple one! " in a few seconds," he continued, " you just let the machines began to sink downward and to everyone else out there, the secret. at the moment. a slight hiss built into 21:36:01 Is it just me or does that bot like to say "the machines began to sink downward"? 21:36:10 Vorpal: I haven't tried it yet. Maybe I should, now that I have a camera-equipped Android device. 21:36:18 ^style 21:36:18 Available: irc* 21:36:29 Really? 21:36:43 Thought it was hitchhikers guide to the galaxy 21:36:46 No, the Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy. 21:36:54 Exactly 21:36:59 It is that. 21:37:01 It's what int-e said, also "trillian", "ford prefect"??? 21:37:22 "Magrathea"? "a towel"? 21:37:25 Then why the fuck did it claim to be irc 21:37:33 fnordbot, ping 21:37:34 Vorpal: because ford never learned to say his original purpose, which ford and was about to go for a walk to the bridge at that, i can tell. " you can't keep us out!" " what the hell am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to take you to the bridge at that, i can tell." " the mice were furious." " the day, arthur's mind. look at me: i design coastlines. a red star the size of a planet and they ask me to take you to the b 21:37:43 Vorpal: A joke. 21:37:53 Yeah definitely Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy 21:38:01 Or #hgttg 21:38:05 ^style irc 21:38:06 Selected style: Not really what you'd expect 21:38:09 (if that exists) 21:38:24 Not really what you'd expect is probably a big giveaway that it's a joke. 21:38:27 fizzie, why doesn't ^help work though 21:38:44 I have a style for fnordbot to use, but I'm not sure if it'll work. 21:38:44 gamemanj:...?" " unfortunately, in a desperate that any man who can," a voice said " i seem to be having tremendous difficulty in finding the floor. " what," said trillian, " but those of finely calculated the cumulative effect is this? " the universe to it, you can't like it," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine," he said at last, " i don't know," said th 21:38:54 ...Should've gone with "it"... 21:39:17 ^help is a "defined command" or something...needs fungot's files to use. 21:39:22 Ah 21:39:32 I don't know the exact details. 21:39:46 (Or anything about how fungot works,really.) 21:40:40 Vorpal: Yes, it's not a built-in and the data file was too old. 21:41:29 Should have copied the current one, but had to jump through hoops due to lack of internet. 21:41:30 Very very old then 21:41:42 Shouldn't it be possible to define it? 21:41:51 Sure. 21:42:10 ^def help ul (Please define me.) 21:42:10 Defined. 21:42:19 ^def help ul (Please define me.)S 21:42:19 Defined. 21:42:20 ^help 21:42:20 Please define me. 21:42:36 Almos forgot the S. 21:42:42 Heh 21:42:46 ^def help ul (Use ^bf for Brainf***, ^ul for Underload.)S 21:42:47 Defined. 21:42:48 And ^save right? 21:42:57 ^heko 21:42:59 ^help 21:43:00 Use ^bf for Brainf***, ^ul for Underload. 21:43:07 There. Much more useful. 21:43:10 Yes, but that's owner-only. 21:43:14 brainfrick 21:43:31 ...except I'm not the owner. 21:43:51 ...And come to think of it, this is int-e's bot, right? 21:43:54 Ah 21:43:59 Yet fizzie defined something? 21:44:14 Anyone can do def. 21:44:15 gamemanj, yes ^def is open, ^save is not 21:44:23 ...Ah, I see. 21:44:26 ~/.znc/moddata/log $ du -sh 21:44:26 3,2G. 21:44:28 Oh fuck me 21:44:52 The directory is massive, one log per channel per day 21:44:57 $ ls | wc -l 21:44:58 41254 21:45:09 ...Do you really need that big a log? 21:45:18 ...When there's already channel logs? 21:45:45 ^def help ul (^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool)S 21:45:45 Defined. 21:45:56 Also, to elaborate, I think they call it the Googleplex or something. 21:46:00 gamemanj, it logs all channels I'm not, not just #esoteric 21:46:11 gamemanj, And I'm on like 80 channels over 10 networks 21:46:19 Seriously? 21:46:28 gamemanj, probably closer to a hundred 21:46:33 Haven't countet 21:46:38 in a while 21:46:49 Still, need to do something with the logs 21:46:50 I'm literally on 1 channel with my client set to alert me when fungot goes back online. 21:46:50 Logging all the channels you're *not* is pretty impressive. 21:47:17 Well, Vorpal, you could always try gzip. 21:47:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:47:25 [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42070&oldid=42063 * Ypnypn * (+2457) 21:47:29 fizzie, I'm on I meant 21:47:40 gamemanj, step 1 would be to split it by year or channel 21:47:47 by year to begin with, that is easier 21:47:54 Because ls is taking ages in that directory 21:47:55 ...Don't the channels already have logs for this? 21:48:03 gamemanj, not all no 21:48:36 ...Well, maybe write a script which sorts them+clumps them into 1 file per year. 21:48:45 *per year per channel 21:49:29 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:49:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:49:59 Vorpal: Do these logs run across decades? 21:50:57 Vorpal: I keep only the current year on the VPS, and the rest only locally. With "net/chan/YYYY-mm.log" filenames and a month per file. 21:51:05 gamemanj, not on this host no, they just run since 2013, since I started using that bouncer back then 21:51:17 fizzie, this is on my RPi 21:51:30 gamemanj, I have older logs in different formats elsewhere, going back to mid 00s 21:51:37 gamemanj, And before that I wasn't on IRC 21:51:41 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:52:14 My phone fell on the street snow and opened 21:52:23 ouch 21:52:24 That generally isn't a good thing. 21:52:34 -!- Froox has joined. 21:52:50 By "opened", what do you mean? 21:53:31 Sgeo, you need an unbreakable phone. Like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ericsson_R310s 21:53:45 gamemanj: the back and battery came off 21:53:54 Snow got into the battery compartment and don't know where else 21:54:00 ...That's not good, wait for it to dry. 21:54:07 Right now have it opened and put silica gel packets on it 21:54:16 How long should I wait? 21:54:22 At least the battery came out *before* the phone got into the snow... 21:54:31 (as in, during the impact) 21:54:46 Probably best to wait as long as you can. 21:54:48 Remember to not eat the silica gel when you're done. 21:54:51 gamemanj: I'm not totally certain if it did or not 21:55:00 fizzie, XD 21:55:10 Well, the phone's battery didn't pop out by itself. 21:55:24 So it's likely it powered down before any water actually got in. 21:55:39 (Not accounting for capacitors here, I know.) 21:55:41 Also glad I didn't get run over 21:55:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:56:04 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:56:04 Vorpal: "Silica gel, do not eat" was our stock phrase we used whenever the cat was eating something it wasn't supposed to be eating. 21:56:57 Oh I need to update my znc 21:57:08 Do you mean even if it isn't silica gel? 21:57:30 -!- skj3gg has joined. 21:57:47 fizzie, ha 21:57:49 zzo38: Yes. In fact, I don't think the cat ever tried to eat silica gel. 21:57:51 hah* 21:58:26 Mostly just cardboard and paper stuff. 21:59:18 Sometimes headphone cables. 21:59:37 Vorpal: how much time do your logs cover? 22:00:06 maybe I should start logging irc if the logs are that small 22:00:13 -!- CADD has joined. 22:00:34 b_jonas: 2 GB? Small? 22:00:46 gamemanj: yes, that's small 22:00:49 For 2 years(okay, across 80 channels but whatever) 22:00:57 (I think I need to get to sleep, early flight to CA tomorrow.) 22:01:08 b_jonas, as I said, on that computer, since 2013 22:01:19 gamemanj: I work with videos, they've distorted my sense of size, sorry 22:01:28 And uncompressed 22:01:29 Vorpal: thanks 22:01:38 Let me ssh to the computer with my older logs 22:01:43 b_jonas: I understand in the context of videos being big, they're videos. 22:02:10 fizzie: I wish you well on your mission to do whatever it is you plan to do. 22:02:14 gamemanj: some irc channels have a lot more traffic than this one 22:02:54 ...This one has a decent amount of traffic whenever there's actually a chat going on. (When there isn't, then...) 22:03:37 Or not, they are on an external HDD 22:03:40 gamemanj: Thanks. Though it's just a business trip. Google seems to want all new employees to be dazzled by their "main" campus for a week or two. 22:04:11 fizzie, heh 22:05:36 gamemanj: come on, these days 2 GB of logs fits in the RAM and you can search it in a second 22:05:56 I don't have that much RAM though 22:06:15 Really? My tablet has 2 GB RAM 22:06:19 My phone probably too 22:06:37 Although I do have more than enough disk space, and they could be stored in a SQLite database in order to do search, too 22:06:39 This old laptop has 4 GB RAM 22:06:42 And a Core 2 Duo 22:06:55 zzo38, or postgresql 22:06:56 Vorpal: Your RPi doesn't. 22:07:00 fizzie, Indeed 22:07:17 fizzie, nor does my router 22:07:21 This phone's got 3, I think. 22:07:27 fizzie, what model? 22:07:37 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:07:42 Didn't they put a gigabyte or something on the new RPi. 22:07:51 Yes, you could use PostgreSQL instead if you prefer, although I don't know how to write extensions for PostgreSQL, nor do I know about if it support such thing like recursive WITH clauses, views with triggers attached, etc 22:08:02 Vorpal: Nexus 6, the phablet one. 22:08:13 How is it? As a phone? 22:08:24 Also doesn't it have raw image support? Tried that yet? 22:08:32 sure, this machine doesn't have 2G ram either, but I work with machines that have 8Gg or 16G 22:08:44 I kind of like it, but I'm a bit strange. Some people hate the form factor. 22:08:50 fizzie, also what happened to your old N900? 22:08:53 I once asked before about name-mangling with DLL files, but as it turns out now, the DLLs I was using don't need name-mangling (the program disables name-mangling for the two functions it exports), and I was able to write it in C, after fixing the provided header file by adding a "#ifndef __cplusplus" area with typedefs in it. 22:09:29 b_jonas, my desktop has 16 GB, my work laptop as well 22:09:37 Though my next work laptop will have 32 GB 22:09:39 Vorpal: Holding my Finnish SIM card for the transition period. Not sure what to use it for after that. 22:09:44 (Going to be replaced this summer) 22:09:47 zzo38: good to hear 22:09:53 fizzie, ah 22:10:25 The battery on the N900 is kind of dying. 22:10:50 I don't need 2G to run an irc client of course 22:10:52 Oh god, znc 1.6 needs C++11 which means GCC 4.8 not 4.6, which means I can't use distcc as I lack that compiler on my desktop 22:10:57 (For ARM that is) 22:11:02 So this will take a while 22:11:05 Although last I looked it was still easy to get replacements. 22:11:13 Ah 22:11:42 fizzie, I use a Sony Xperia Z2 nowdays, works well. No raw image support currently thoug 22:11:45 though* 22:11:54 I hope they will add that in when it gets Android 5 22:14:07 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:14:15 I picked a Nexus thing, since it seemed like the natural choice, given the circumstances. 22:14:29 Right 22:14:43 Though it would probably be better to have a bit more device diversity among developers. 22:14:54 Yeah 22:15:12 fizzie, surely you have an array for testing the app with at work? 22:15:22 Or do they expect you to use your private phone for that? 22:15:59 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:16:34 No, but the developers would be in the best position to fix the bugs if they encountered them in their day-to-day use. 22:16:42 Right 22:17:29 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 22:17:30 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:17:35 And this isn't entirely a private phone, in the sense that they paid for it. 22:18:00 fizzie, I love the Nexus 10, sad they have discontinued big tablets in the Nexus series (since the battery in that thing is starting to die)... 22:18:15 Means I'm going for something else next time 22:18:21 Probably a Galaxy Tab or Note 22:19:00 The xperia tablets are just 8" 22:19:11 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:19:14 Oh wait, that is the compact edition 22:19:54 Is there no non-compact? 22:20:25 Did you read my latest session of level20.tex (and the previous one) yet? Do you like this? Is there a typographical error or something else that could be improved? 22:20:31 There isn't... 22:20:48 There's the Nexus 9. Though it's still pretty small. 22:21:04 8.9" or so. 22:23:20 Yes, 10-11" is what I want 22:23:36 I have a 5, a 6, a 7v1 and a 7v2 nowadays. Though I only own the 6 and the 7v1, the other two are devel-device loaners. 22:23:40 Yep, all the search results are Samsung 22:24:09 On prisjakt.nu at least 22:24:16 Which tends to be pretty good 22:25:18 So it is Note, Tab or Tab Pro? 22:25:56 Oh and a Gigaset device, whatever that is 22:26:05 I have no idea on those. Do they all do the pen thing, or is that just Note? 22:27:49 Think that is just note 22:27:57 I'm not a fan of Touchwiz though 22:28:00 So... 22:28:19 Not getting a Note one, because the pen will probably not work on a non-stock ROM 22:28:33 Yeah um... 22:28:46 Anyway I need to sleep, good night 22:31:04 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 22:31:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:31:12 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 22:34:13 Ditto. 22:39:00 -!- adu has joined. 22:44:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:44:52 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 22:46:26 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 22:46:43 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 22:47:48 -!- Vorpal has joined. 22:51:54 I know #esoteric has seen it before 22:52:00 but I'm going to link http://boundvariable.org/task.shtml again because it's so awesome 22:52:12 (it kind-of hides the reason why it's awesome until you actually get some distance into the task, though) 22:55:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:58:14 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: zzz). 23:00:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:03:47 ⍬ 23:08:41 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 23:13:20 [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42071&oldid=42070 * Ypnypn * (-24) /* Constants */ 23:24:58 -!- bb010g has joined. 23:33:13 [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42072&oldid=42071 * Ypnypn * (+225) /* Constants */ 23:33:14 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 23:38:44 I have changed this puzzle http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.2 23:39:06 (Opponent now has 2x Sages of the Anima) 23:45:22 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:55:35 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 23:55:51 -!- CADD has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:57:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:58:01 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 2015-03-02: 00:04:17 but I'm going to link http://boundvariable.org/task.shtml again because it's so awesome 00:04:27 No loop operations except load program... 00:04:40 it's usable as a goto 00:04:51 you can load the program you're currently running 00:04:57 but the interesting part isn't really the VM 00:05:04 but the program that runs on it 00:05:16 it's well worth implementing the VM just to run that program 00:05:17 Is it self-modifying? 00:05:22 Might be nice to reverse engineer it. 00:05:35 good luck reverse engineering it 00:05:43 it may be possible, but would be a bunch of effort 00:05:48 (also the source is public but that's cheating) 00:07:07 -!- skj3gg has joined. 00:08:04 Disassembly should be enough :P 00:09:18 Lymia: here, have a UM interpreter: http://sprunge.us/BOeA 00:09:21 so you can run the codex on it 00:09:39 (my first one was written in Perl but it was too slow) 00:10:07 (that's an updated version that works on 64-bit processors; a 32-bit version is much simpler because you can store a host machine pointer as a UM integer) 00:11:47 It appears to output another program. :P 00:12:35 err, yes 00:12:42 I mean, run that program 00:12:48 for a moment, I forgot it needed decompression 00:13:07 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 00:17:34 Interesting :P 00:17:40 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 00:19:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:20:32 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 00:23:04 -!- skj3gg has joined. 00:23:36 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:26:51 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 00:30:50 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:34:17 -!- skj3gg has joined. 00:36:58 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 00:41:22 -!- skj3gg has joined. 00:45:47 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 00:46:54 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:47:44 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:58:10 -!- skj3gg has joined. 01:01:15 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 01:02:15 -!- CADD has joined. 01:02:33 -!- skj3gg has joined. 01:06:07 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 01:12:19 Why are so many ads using data: URLs these days? 01:12:26 Does it bypass ad blockers or something? 01:13:05 -!- skj3gg has joined. 01:13:05 It may bypass some blockers I suppose, although you might be able to tell it to block data: URLs too 01:14:10 [wiki] [[User:Poiuyqwert]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42073&oldid=24867 * 50.152.240.108 * (+14) /* Contact */ 01:30:09 -!- Fleur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:35:49 Which random number generator are faster in 6502, is it Xorshift, ARCFOUR, or Mersenne? 01:36:58 -!- White-Rabbit has joined. 01:38:35 -!- White-Rabbit has quit (Client Quit). 01:39:24 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 01:50:33 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 02:05:44 -!- skj3gg has joined. 02:05:54 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 02:07:17 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:09:29 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 02:21:20 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:39:12 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:53:41 -!- koo7 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:58:18 -!- dulla has changed nick to f|`-`|f. 03:15:46 @tell ais523 http://pastebin.com/TscXMrUw < Bugging the interpreter worked very well. 03:15:46 Consider it noted. 03:34:34 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:39:30 -!- oren has joined. 03:43:13 -b+or-sqrt(b^2-4ac)/2a 03:44:20 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 03:52:40 is there any reason I should have that expression above memorized instead of googling it? 03:54:16 I am also increasingly skeptical as to whether in the future people will need to do algebra by hand 03:59:04 so overall, I think i'm becoming even more extreme than the #dontstayinschool guy 04:00:33 Maybe we need a curriculum that starts with the basics: logic, set theory and Lisp. 04:01:38 ah, new math? 04:02:48 Then after that, numbers and the infinitesimal calculus 04:03:59 discrete math, statistics, probability and information is another useful path 04:04:20 yeah, that would be grades 4-6 04:04:54 or maybe 5-8 04:05:20 lisp should probably come before logic and maybe set theory though 04:08:05 In addition they really should teach a course on "being a grownup" in high school: how to tie a tie, how to go to an interview, how to not be an incompetent weasel... 04:09:37 maybe that last one can't be taught... 04:10:51 no, they make classes like mandatory, which I hate 04:12:07 like => like that 04:12:41 Oh yes and: "How to cook your own food" 04:13:25 several of my colleagues are apparently afraid to turn on a stove 04:13:29 we actually had that class in high school, it was called home economics 04:13:41 yeah they don't have that in Canada 04:14:23 clearly your education system is a bit better then ours 04:18:20 "how to research" was taought to me, but it focused on how to write citations in the correct format, rather than how to find accurate information 04:19:07 yes that was taught just as poorly here 04:19:20 but we were also pointed at the citation machine 04:19:51 my approach to "how to cite properly" is "how to use bibtex" 04:24:04 coppro: my approach is "copypaste the citation link" 04:25:03 although to be honest it's been years since i've had to cite anythign 04:31:59 (well, formally, I mean. I cite things all the time, but the citation is usually just a bare url) 04:33:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:36:34 oh, I thought you meant export the citation in bibtext format, like the button here http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=367199 04:36:38 -!- skj3gg has joined. 04:37:45 *bibtex 04:38:30 my fingers get away from me sometimes 04:38:56 i know the feeling 04:39:33 fnordbot: how's your training going 04:39:33 oerjan: yet," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the language. " why," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the language. ford was running after him very fast? " very pretty," he said to a small lump of green and blue. a galactic civilization, leapt to th 04:40:03 hm a half-loop, fancy 04:40:59 f nord bot = f sud top 04:41:11 these days when I misspell something it is usually because my fingers went with a more probably letter sequence 04:41:49 sounds probably 04:41:56 it is like a half controlled markov chain 04:43:37 perhaps I should pay more attention 04:44:32 where's the fun in that 04:45:24 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 04:45:38 -!- skj3gg has joined. 04:46:39 when did people become persons? 04:47:42 people complained about it in the 19th century 04:49:14 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 04:49:16 aaaaugh what 04:50:20 -!- skj3gg has joined. 04:50:33 damn it that is some kind of... object of a type in the same kind as puns 04:52:48 your sentences seem like non-sequitors 04:53:32 because they are partially in the context of reading my KRR textbook 04:53:59 So without that context they have nothing to follow 04:54:31 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:55:16 maybe it would help if you told us wtf KRR means 04:55:36 Knowledge Representation and Reasoning 04:56:29 Krasnodar international airport 04:57:41 In other words, it is mostly about computers doing first order logic 05:01:28 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 05:02:00 -!- skj3gg has joined. 05:09:02 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:11:08 -!- Lymia has joined. 05:18:50 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:20:05 -!- White-Rabbit has joined. 05:20:19 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 05:23:19 -!- White-Rabbit has left. 05:30:35 I was going to put the rules for satisfaction of a formula by an interpretation in my notes, but I decided to just put "the rules for satisfaction are obvious" 05:31:19 you simply recapitulate the formula's internal logical structure in the external logic 05:33:29 which is a tedious and pointless process 05:34:34 Well, I still do algebra by hand at least, sometimes 05:34:57 Although if I have a lot of such quadratic formulas to calculate, I will put it into the computer 05:35:16 I just type them into wolfram alpha 05:35:47 I generally prefer to make such calculations locally though 05:40:32 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 05:41:02 -!- hjulle has joined. 05:46:03 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 05:49:28 -!- dianne has joined. 05:51:49 -!- skj3gg has joined. 05:55:33 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:55:57 How difficult is it to clone a mask image to make a IC out of? 06:04:09 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 06:08:37 -!- AnxiousGarlic has joined. 06:09:20 -!- AnxiousGarlic has left. 06:11:11 -!- skj3gg has joined. 06:23:09 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 06:23:59 -!- skj3gg has joined. 06:34:53 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-fJP9_CMAAd_nS.jpg 06:44:49 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:50:20 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:50:56 -!- lambdabot has joined. 06:52:08 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 06:59:09 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:59:48 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 07:05:44 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:19:44 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 07:26:17 what is fnord, oerjan 07:31:26 what is, i cannot say 07:31:53 god damn e_books 07:32:19 books, eh 07:33:05 -!- chaosagent has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:36:40 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:50:00 -!- v4s has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:01:04 -!- v4s has joined. 08:14:18 I should write a fnordbot 08:14:18 mroman: more a sort of... do it really, cosmically speaking, so stop whatever you're doing?" he just have to be," said vroomfondel in an awed whisper, " think our brains must a man walk down? he grinned a stupid hopeful. walk to the bridge at that, i can tell." " everyone? a sudden silence afterwards." a thought. arthur lolled. a million-gallon vat of custard? " then who is it," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a 08:14:24 lol what 08:14:38 there ARLEADY IS a fnordbot? 08:14:38 mroman: them, at the very moment the words i seem to be having tremendous difficulty in finding the floor. " what a dull name," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the language. " it was a tough assignment," he said to a small lump of green and blue. at the moment. a slight hiss built into a deafening roar the engines. he had no discernible 08:14:40 ^style 08:14:40 Available: irc* 08:14:45 uh that's fungot 08:14:55 fnordbot is temporarily filling in for our trapped fungot 08:14:55 oerjan: bulldozers? all his heirs are now long dead, and this is frankie, " a simple one! you home wreckers!" ford would have to go. " i don't want to go to work at," and he turned. " but who the man with the five heads all the tests, learning to distinguish between him pretending to be an out, " hey listen! i think we've got a deal," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at scho 08:16:00 It felt so empty without fungot 08:16:06 Like nobody to talk to 08:16:12 I mean there are people in here 08:16:20 but the most serious talks can only be held with fungot. 08:16:27 fnordbot: Isn't that right? 08:16:27 mroman: matrix, right," shouted ford. " i don't want to go to work at," and he turned. " but you will when i was a kid you just saved a lot. " so all i have to do in order to find this wretched," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the language. " why," a voice said " i seem to be having tremendous difficulty in finding the floor. " what a d 08:16:27 this replacement is a little _too_ verbose. 08:17:58 I should write my own IRC-Bot 08:18:02 with blackjack and hookers 08:24:07 -!- cooper has joined. 08:26:12 wtf 08:26:17 simpleirc is bugged 08:26:35 connect config False True 08:26:42 this should enter a listen loop 08:26:44 but it doesn't. 08:28:51 it terminates immediately after sending USER NICK 08:29:02 which suggests EOF? 08:29:31 or the irc server terminates the connection for some reason 08:29:54 Do you like to write IRC-Bot in SQL? I wrote a C program that implements IRC-Bot with SQL 08:30:23 I'm trying to figure out why simpleirc doesn't seem to be able to properly connect to irc.freenode.net 08:30:25 You can tell it to load the database containing configuration and triggers to tell it what it will cause. 08:30:37 It connects, but disconnects after sending USER 08:30:39 What is simpleirc? Maybe then we can learn why it doesn't work. 08:31:22 If I do not understand simpleirc then how can I answer your question please? 08:31:38 https://hackage.haskell.org/package/simpleirc-0.3.0/docs/src/Network-SimpleIRC-Core.html#connect 08:34:39 I get a disconnect event right after sending NICK followed by USER 08:35:19 Did you try a proxy to record it? 08:36:30 Maybe it doesn't properly wait for the response? 08:36:33 hm. 08:36:42 I could use my tcp relay program :D 08:39:04 >> :hobana.freenode.net NOTICE * :*** No Ident response 08:39:09 Lost connection... 08:41:09 ow 08:41:14 my ping timeout might be too low :D 08:42:08 haha 08:42:09 yeaaah 08:42:19 I thought those were milliseconds 08:42:43 -!- mroman has changed nick to bunbunbot. 08:44:13 -!- bunbunbot has changed nick to mroman. 08:45:17 no killer rabbits in the channel! 08:54:36 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 08:54:42 \^lol 08:54:43 NOOOOOOOOOO 08:54:49 danm. 08:54:50 :( 08:54:58 ^\lol 08:55:04 y u no working 08:55:05 :( 08:55:17 mroman: that doesn't sound good. do you not get even some message about why it's terminated you? 08:55:18 * oerjan starts preparing the holy hand grenade 08:55:20 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:55:26 oops 08:55:35 three, sir 08:55:43 b_jonas: simpleirc has a timeout after which it disconnects if it hasn't received a ping from the server 08:55:50 i set that timeout to like 0.00003 seconds 08:55:53 ah! 08:55:55 b_jonas: good man 08:56:02 now that explains it 08:56:03 so if simpelirc doesn't receive any message within 0.00003 seconds it will disconnect :D 08:56:54 bit impatient for a bot 08:59:38 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 08:59:51 Bs.isSuffixOf is apparanteley not working 08:59:56 *BS.isSuffixOf 09:01:15 oh wait 09:02:42 -!- cooper has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:03:39 -!- cooper has joined. 09:08:58 -!- oren has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:09:10 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 09:09:12 ^\lol 09:09:12 lulz 09:09:18 neat 09:09:28 ^\html

09:09:28 Error "(line 1, column 4):\nunexpected \"\\\"\"\nexpecting space or \">\"" 09:09:34 hm 09:09:40 ^\html foo 09:09:40 Node "b" [] [Text "foo"] 09:09:53 psst irc doesn't use html 09:09:56 ^\html foo 09:09:56 Node "b" [("weight","bold")] [Text "foo"] 09:10:04 well 09:10:07 bunbunbot does! 09:10:14 bunbunbot knows all about them HTMlz 09:10:38 so.. 09:10:41 any feature wishes? :D 09:11:11 what about a death ray 09:11:16 easy 09:13:50 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:15:18 does it use [i]bbcode[/i]? 09:22:04 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 09:22:06 ^\blsq 5 09:22:06 5 09:22:10 ^\blsq 5 5?+ 09:22:11 10 09:22:14 ^\blsq 1R@ 09:22:15 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 09:22:18 ^\blsq 1R@L[ 09:22:18 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 09:22:22 ^\blsq 1R@10.+ 09:22:22 {1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10} 09:22:29 thank you bunbunbot 09:22:32 ^\kill b_jonas 09:22:32 b_jonas: Fight me u lil bitch! 09:22:55 i think someone here in the channel dislikes that word hth 09:23:01 yeah 09:23:05 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:23:17 It's a meme I guess? 09:23:25 with that fluffy animal thingy? 09:26:33 i'd say something about someone here's response to that except someone here also dislikes when i put words in their mouth hth 09:29:44 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 09:29:51 ^ 09:29:55 ^\rc {x.x} 09:29:55 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:30:00 :( 09:30:40 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 09:30:43 ^\rc {x.x} 09:30:43 {x.(x)} 09:30:50 ^\rc ({x.x}y) 09:30:50 y 09:31:26 ^\rc ({x.(xx)}{x.(xx)}) 09:31:26 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 09:31:35 DISAPPOINT 09:31:43 ^\annoy oerjan 09:31:43 oerjan: What color does the dress have? 09:31:53 blue and black hth 09:32:24 i'm sure that's going to get shoutouts everywhere 09:32:38 ^\rc {f.{x.x(fx)}} 09:32:38 error: (line 1, column 8): 09:32:38 unexpected "(" 09:32:38 expecting white space or "}" 09:32:49 ^\rc {f.{x.(x(fx))}} 09:32:49 {f.{x.((x)((f)(x)))}} 09:32:56 ^\rc ({f.{x.(x(fx))}}q) 09:32:57 {x.((x)((q)(x)))} 09:33:04 ^\rc ({f.{x.(x(fx))}}qv) 09:33:04 (v(qv)) 09:33:13 although that was the original. on wired it looked gold and white. 09:34:13 ^\help 09:34:13 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:34:24 bunbunbot never helps :( 09:35:41 ^\ doesn't really clash with fungot because you cannot really define commands with symbolic chars 09:36:02 (they're all coerced to . or something) 09:36:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:38:05 ^style 09:38:05 Available: irc* 09:39:35 -!- koo7 has joined. 09:40:10 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 09:40:12 ^\help 09:40:12 Bun currently knows how to lol, html, annoy, blsq, rc or help. 09:40:37 ^\lol 09:40:37 lulz 09:41:06 ^\html

div
09:41:06 Node "div" [] [Text "div"] 09:41:09 ^\help html 09:41:09 Bun currently knows how to lol, html, annoy, blsq, rc or help. 09:41:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:41:19 oh. right. 09:41:26 I probably should add help for topics as well 09:45:25 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:45:46 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 09:45:48 ^\help_topic html 09:45:48 Bun currently knows how to lol, html, annoy, blsq, rc, help_topic or help. (Use ^\help_topic help_topic) 09:45:52 crap 09:46:29 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:46:45 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 09:46:46 ^\help 09:46:47 Bun currently knows how to lol, html, annoy, blsq, rc, help_topic or help. (Use ^\_help _help) 09:46:51 ^\_help _help 09:46:51 Little Bunny doesn't know how to handle that :( 09:47:13 hm 09:47:19 probably wrong case order :( 09:47:21 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:48:01 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 09:48:03 ^\_help html 09:48:03 Parses CoolHTML. Example: ^\html
div
09:48:10 ^\html
div
09:48:10 Node "div" [] [Text "div"] 09:48:14 ^\html
di 09:48:14 Error "(line 1, column 9):\nunexpected \"v\"\nexpecting \"/\"" 09:48:28 ^\blsq abc 09:48:28 ERROR: (line 1, column 4): 09:48:28 unexpected end of input 09:48:47 ^\blsq {{1 2 3}}BS 09:48:47 [1, 2, 3] 09:48:51 ^\blsq {{1 2 3}}uN 09:48:51 [1, 2, 3] 09:48:59 ^\blsq {1 2 3}uN 09:48:59 09:48:59 12 09:48:59 3 09:49:14 ow. ok this could be abused to spam the channel 09:49:19 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:50:03 -!- gamemanj has joined. 09:50:15 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 09:50:16 ^\blsq {1 2 3}uN 09:50:16 123 09:50:19 mroman: what? like j-bot which its owner has recently reconfigured to give up to twelve lines of reply rather than up to six lines which is what I've set? 09:50:28 yeah 09:50:32 don't want newlines actually 09:50:52 ^\blsq {1 2 3}{{1 2 3}{4 5 6}}?*BS 09:50:53 [1, 2, 3] [8, 10, 12] 09:51:03 ^\blsq 1 2 3 09:51:03 321 09:51:03 ^\blsq {1 2 3}{{1 2 3}{4 5 6}}?* 09:51:03 {{1 2 3} {8 10 12}} 09:51:12 could it at least add a space? 09:51:15 :D 09:51:16 NO! 09:51:19 alright 09:51:23 because it's you 09:51:26 thanks 09:51:27 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:54:59 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 09:55:01 ^\blsq 1 2 3 09:55:01 3 09:55:01 2 09:55:01 1 09:55:05 ^\blsq 1 2 3 4 5 09:55:05 5 09:55:05 4 09:55:05 3 09:55:14 ^\blsq {"hi" "there" "you"}uN 09:55:14 hi 09:55:14 there 09:55:14 you 09:58:15 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:08:49 ...What's "blsq"? 10:12:18 jesus christ all those libraries on hackage are fucking stupid 10:12:24 why would you only expose parseFile 10:12:27 but NOT parseString 10:12:29 I mean 10:12:33 Seriously 10:12:40 people who only expose parseFile SUCK 10:12:46 They shouldn't be allowed on hackage 10:12:58 gamemanj: a programming language 10:13:05 most closely related to APL or J 10:13:30 ^\blsq {{1 2 3}{4 5 6}}p^?*BS 10:13:30 4 10 18 10:13:42 ^\blsq {{1 2 3}{4 5 6}}p^?*CL 10:13:43 {{4 10 18}} 10:13:49 ^\blsq {{1 2 3}{4 5 6}}p^?*++ 10:13:49 32 10:13:58 ^\blsq {{1 2 3}{4 5 6}}p^?*++XXBS 10:13:58 3 2 10:14:10 ^\blsq {{1 2 3}{4 5 6}}p^?*++XX 10:14:10 {3 2} 10:14:19 ^\blsq "~ hi ~"{{1 2 3}{4 5 6}}p^?*++XXf~ 10:14:19 "3 hi 2" 10:14:35 any questions? 10:15:01 ^\blsq {1 0 0}iR 10:15:01 {{1 0 0} {0 0 1} {0 1 0}} 10:15:03 ^\blsq {1 0 0}iRBS 10:15:03 [1, 0, 0] [0, 0, 1] [0, 1, 0] 10:15:06 ^\blsq {1 0 0}iRbs 10:15:07 "[1, 0, 0] [0, 0, 1] [0, 1, 0]" 10:15:09 hm 10:15:12 ^\blsq {1 0 0}iRSP 10:15:12 "1 0 0\n0 0 1\n0 1 0" 10:15:15 ^\blsq {1 0 0}iRsp 10:15:15 1 0 0 10:15:15 0 0 1 10:15:15 0 1 0 10:15:18 I'm guessing bunbunbot's written in Haskell. 10:15:32 ^\blsq {0 1 0}iRsp 10:15:32 0 1 0 10:15:33 1 0 0 10:15:33 0 0 1 10:15:36 ^\blsq {0 0 1}iRsp 10:15:36 0 0 1 10:15:36 0 1 0 10:15:36 1 0 0 10:15:50 gamemanj: it is 10:16:58 ^\blsq {0 1 0}iRp^jCLsp 10:16:59 1 0 0 10:16:59 0 1 0 10:16:59 0 0 1 10:17:24 ^\blsq 1Jq.+12C! 10:17:24 377 10:17:24 233 10:17:24 144 10:17:30 ^\blsq 1Jq.+12C!CL 10:17:30 {377 233 144 89 55 34 21 13 8 5 3 2 1 1} 10:17:35 ^\blsq 1Jq.+12!CCL 10:17:35 {1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377} 10:17:49 ^\blsq 1Jq.+12!CCL3cosp 10:17:50 1 1 2 10:17:50 3 5 8 10:17:50 13 21 34 10:17:54 ^\blsq 1Jq.+12!CCL5cosp 10:17:54 1 1 2 3 5 10:17:54 8 13 21 34 55 10:17:54 89 144 233 377 10:18:08 ...What are you trying to parse? 10:18:18 parse where? 10:18:30 Your reference to "parseFile" 10:18:59 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-stacked-vm-0.1.1/docs/Language-SSVM-Parser.html 10:19:03 for example 10:19:43 technically only exporting parseSrting is better than just exporting parseFile 10:19:54 you can always do readFile f >>= return . parseString 10:20:00 but if they only export parseFile 10:20:03 you can't parse Strings :( 10:20:49 There's "parseVM" and "parseSourceFile". I don't know Haskell at all, but is there any way of subclassing IO? 10:21:52 A "FilePath" is a String anyway, and I think it also takes a IO if I'm reading these docs correctly(probably not) 10:22:31 what 10:22:34 subclassing I/O? 10:22:40 what 10:22:53 you don't know what IO means in haskell 10:22:57 ...Again, I don't know Haskell at all. 10:23:15 IO (Either ParseError Code) is the return type btw 10:23:20 foo :: a -> b -> c 10:23:24 the last one is always the return type 10:23:29 Ah, I see. 10:23:37 ...But why would it return an IO? 10:23:46 foo :: a -> b -> c is the same as foo :: a -> (b -> c) 10:23:54 gamemanj: because Monad 10:24:10 @type Just 5 10:24:12 Num a => Maybe a 10:24:21 @type foo a = Just a 10:24:22 parse error on input ‘=’ 10:24:27 @type let foo a = Just a 10:24:27 : not an expression: ‘let foo a = Just a’ 10:24:30 @type let foo a = Just a in foo 10:24:31 a -> Maybe a 10:24:47 @type let foo a = (return a) :: Int in foo 10:24:48 Couldn't match expected type ‘Int’ with actual type ‘m0 a1’ 10:24:48 Relevant bindings include 10:24:48 a :: a1 (bound at :1:9) 10:24:52 @type let foo a = (return a) :: IO Int in foo 10:24:53 Int -> IO Int 10:24:57 see 10:25:01 foo returns an IO Int know 10:25:24 generally all actions doing IO return IO a 10:25:51 > let foo a = (return a) :: IO Int in foo a + 9 10:25:52 Couldn't match expected type ‘GHC.Types.Int’ 10:25:52 with actual type ‘Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr’ 10:25:58 > let foo a = (return a) :: IO Int in foo 1 + 9 10:25:59 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num (GHC.Types.IO GHC.Types.Int)) 10:25:59 arising from a use of ‘GHC.Num.+’ 10:26:14 > let foo a = (return a) :: IO Int in ((foo 1) + 9) 10:26:15 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num (GHC.Types.IO GHC.Types.Int)) 10:26:15 arising from a use of ‘GHC.Num.+’ 10:26:30 that's just so you can't mix non IO stuff with IO stuff ;) 10:26:40 you can't add an (IO Int) and an Int together 10:26:52 some people say that is to make code "pure" 10:27:01 some people say there's no such thing as impure code in Haskell anayway 10:27:08 and some people say it's to screw with people 10:27:18 gamemanj: learnyouahaskell.org 10:27:40 Haskell seems to be designed around mathematics, not exactly programs in the sense we use the term. 10:27:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:27:55 (this from the last time I tried looking at haskell) 10:28:19 http://learnyouahaskell.com/a-fistful-of-monads 10:28:29 Well.. you can use haskell to write programs as well 10:28:34 obviously 10:28:46 there's the Perl 6 interpreter which is written in Haskell for example 10:29:09 there are webserver's written in Haskell 10:29:18 there are more than a few webframeworks in Haskell 10:30:16 gamemanj: http://codepad.org/C1Lw7fue 10:30:42 dir defines routes 10:30:49 so like mysite.com/hello/ 10:30:57 (which would result in "Hello, world") 10:31:35 I use haskell in production where I work actually 10:31:44 I'm getting paid for writing Haskell stuff 10:32:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:32:22 awesome 10:32:45 If nobody specifies the language I have to use I'll use Haskell 10:32:58 or if they forget to say it should be in Java I do it in Haskell :) 10:33:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:35:21 people who only expose parseFile SUCK <-- which library? 10:35:37 Hackage package:Language/SSVM, apparently 10:35:38 simple-stacked-vm 10:35:46 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-stacked-vm-0.1.1/docs/Language-SSVM-Parser.html 10:35:50 for example 10:36:00 and that's not the only one I have stumbled upon that doesn't expose a parseString 10:36:05 it seems to be a comman "mistake" 10:36:15 If I may say it is a "mistake" 10:36:27 (because I really think it is a poor API choice to not export parseString but just parseFile) 10:36:42 It's a mistake alright, unless your parser is forced to use files for some bizzare reason. 10:37:05 Exposing runParser would probably have done a lot, even though it's messy... 10:37:12 that would be a really, really, bizzare reason 10:37:35 Well, if the parser was written in Befunge, you might just get away with it. 10:37:42 parse :: Handle -> foo 10:37:45 mroman: oh i think you want parseVM 10:37:50 then you can export that 10:37:56 the FilePath is only to construct error messages 10:38:01 it's a Parsec thing 10:38:38 ...Looking at parseVM's code, that does actually seem to be the case. 10:38:46 the fact that it's type isn't IO _should_ make that obvious >:) 10:39:42 Though why it couldn't be called "parseSourceString"... 10:39:51 pff 10:39:52 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:39:58 wouldn't surprise me if it were to use unsafePeformIO 10:40:13 not having haddock comments is also a huge PITA 10:40:21 No, it doesn't. Look in Parser.hs: 10:40:26 I no. 10:40:30 *I know 10:41:14 Well, it's certainly missing function descriptions. 10:43:31 oerjan: but right 10:43:42 I was too stupid to catch the missing IO :( 10:43:48 I was focused on FilePath 10:44:05 Mind, the naming was...cryptic. Sort of suggested it was parsing something different. 10:45:07 mind you, given they use Parsec they should have exported the actual Parsec parser. 10:45:41 at least I'd expect parseString and parseFile 10:45:51 and maybe the actual parser, yes 10:45:58 gamemanj: in Parsec, it is idiomatic to name parsers according to what they parse _into_. 10:46:15 so it got a bit mixed there. 10:47:14 I tend to use parseThing 10:47:17 when it parses thing 10:47:18 like 10:47:20 parseSExp 10:47:34 hm oh the parser uses internal state, that makes it a bit messy to export i guess 10:49:05 ^\blsq "abc""abcd"~= 10:49:06 0 10:49:08 ^\blsq "abc""abcd"=~ 10:49:09 {} 10:49:16 ^\blsq "abc(.*)""abcd"=~ 10:49:16 {} 10:49:22 ^\blsq "abcd""abc"=~ 10:49:22 {} 10:49:26 ^\blsq "abcd""abc(.*)"=~ 10:49:26 {"d"} 10:50:00 ^\blsq "abcd""(.)"~? 10:50:00 {"a" "b" "c" "d"} 10:50:28 ^\blsq "9+2+3+4""([0-9]+[0-9])"~? 10:50:28 {} 10:50:37 ^\blsq "9+2+3+4""([0-9]\+[0-9])"~? 10:50:37 {"9+2" "3+4"} 10:50:53 hm 10:52:00 ^\blsq "9+2+3+4""([0-9]\+[0-9])"~& 10:52:00 {"" "9+2" "+3+4"} 10:53:00 something's wrong with clippy :( 10:53:18 and not just being an insane robot 10:53:52 who's clippy? 10:54:08 ...Wait, you don't mean OFFICE WORD Clippy??? 10:54:15 gamemanj: Burlesque is also a regex machine 10:54:21 this is clippy http://freefall.purrsia.com/ 10:54:45 although i was secretly hoping someone would misunderstand that 10:55:15 ^\blsq "9+2+3+4""([0-9])"q|I~a 10:55:16 ERROR: Burlesque: (~a) Invalid arguments! 10:55:16 {|I} 10:55:16 "([0-9])" 10:55:18 pff 10:55:19 mroman: that clippy => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Assistant and http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/744.html 10:55:19 hm 10:55:37 ^\blsq "9+2+3+4"q|i"([0-9])"~a 10:55:37 "10+3+4+5" 10:55:43 ah there we go 10:56:22 b_jonas: NOPE 10:56:53 ^\blsq "9+21+32+4"q|i"([0-9])"~a 10:56:53 "10+32+43+5" 10:57:00 a different clippy? 10:57:02 ^\blsq "9+21+32+4"{|i<-}"([0-9])"~a 10:57:02 "1+32+43+5" 10:57:19 hm 10:57:24 ^\blsq "9+21+32+4"{}"([0-9])"~a 10:57:24 "9+21+32+4" 10:57:28 [wiki] [[Hello, world!]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42074&oldid=40933 * 173.192.81.187 * (+48) 10:57:29 ^\blsq "9+21+32+4"{<-}"([0-9])"~a 10:57:29 "9+21+32+4" 10:57:32 wtf 10:57:43 ^\blsq "9+21+32+4"{<-}"([0-9]*)"~a 10:57:43 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 10:57:48 uhm? 10:57:57 what was regex for one ore more again? 10:58:07 mroman: + 10:58:18 ^\blsq "9+21+32+4"{<-}"([0-9]+)"~a 10:58:18 "9+12+23+4" 10:58:23 ^\blsq "9+21+32+4"{|i<-}"([0-9]+)"~a 10:58:23 "1+22+33+5" 10:58:26 there we go 10:58:36 gamemanj: see how cool blsq is 10:58:47 Wow, in-built regex support! 10:59:22 beret guy over at xkcd just keeps getting weirder 11:00:13 mroman: I did a esolang search a few minutes ago, didn't see it. Did a google search just now...is it a custom language of your own design by any chance? 11:00:33 oerjan: is he? I don't think he's weirder than he used to be 11:01:02 b_jonas: ok but he's reality-bending powers seem to be increasing 11:01:05 *his 11:01:21 He's someone who stapled his shoes to a tree and still kept up. 11:01:37 While asking why people acted so dignified. 11:01:54 b_jonas: also clippy from freefall hth 11:02:32 oerjan: he's bending reality way more in 1032 and 1395 11:02:45 ....Huh, just read today's XKCD. He's played with owning businesses before, but it's a surprise he's got someone to run it with. 11:03:16 (and 1293) 11:03:30 gamemanj: I'm not sure he has 11:03:43 ...b_jonas, you just gave the comic I was talking about 11:04:01 (Okay, admittedly it's not a real business, but...) 11:04:13 gamemanj: what? weren't you talking about 1493 11:04:13 ok business as usual, then 11:04:50 ...Ah, I misunderstood when you wrote "I'm not sure he has". 11:05:17 I thought you were talking about having played with owning businesses before... 11:05:25 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:05:25 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 11:05:35 I mean, I'm not sure he got someone to do business with me 11:05:43 um 11:05:46 no, not that 11:05:47 but something 11:06:08 hey oerjan go rollback https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42074&oldid=40933. thanks 11:06:30 b_jonas:3rd panel. Who is that person, if not someone working in his "company"? 11:06:41 http://www.optimaweb.co.id/public/images/seo_head.jpg is he an elf. i would never entrust my search engine optimisation to an elf 11:07:10 http://www.optimaweb.co.id/public/images/seo_step.jpg there is malice in his eyes. this elf man is not dedicated to my website rankings or my well-being 11:07:30 oh, you're right 11:07:45 ponytail girl is working with them 11:07:57 http://www.optimaweb.co.id/public/images/seo_rules_7.jpg what would a blog key even do 11:08:08 *mashes blog key furiously* WHY isn't it BLOGGING 11:08:32 elliott: clearly is an elf with fake human ears, yeah 11:08:48 ...Well, nobody uses caps lock anymore, elliott..so they decided to use the space for a new key! 11:09:34 that's completely false. i use my capslock constantly and with wild abandon 11:09:34 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:10:15 [wiki] [[Hello, world!]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42075&oldid=42074 * Oerjan * (-48) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/173.192.81.187|173.192.81.187]] ([[User talk:173.192.81.187|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Oerjan|Oerjan]] 11:13:57 thanks. i won't stand for this little elf man and his fraudulent search engine practices 11:14:05 * oerjan finally gets the title text of http://xkcd.com/1293/ 11:14:25 * gamemanj still doesn't know 11:14:53 it's how the word is pronounced when capitalized hth 11:18:22 Oh. My Goodness. 11:18:34 ...try entering "companyname.website" into the URL. 11:19:29 thanks icann 11:19:39 icann't see any problem with these new gtld 11:20:05 i know .website was registered, so it stands to reason that the rest would be 11:25:06 -!- boily has joined. 11:31:37 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:35:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:47:37 http://www.mezzacotta.net/dinosaur/?comic=36 i'm pretty sure several of those hadn't evolved in the cambrian 11:51:21 gamemanj: mroman.ch/burlesque 11:51:25 the language is called burlesque 11:51:30 blsq is just short for it 11:52:22 `? burlesque 11:52:41 HackEgo gone? 11:52:49 hm. no. still there 11:53:06 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:54:12 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:54:23 mrhelloman. sometimes the HackEgo needs some percussive maintenance. 11:54:29 * boily mapoles HackEgo 11:54:37 `? burlesque 11:55:51 `? fungot 11:56:22 who maintains HackEgo again? I'm drawing a blank... 11:56:28 Sir Fungellot cannot be stopped by that sword alone! 11:56:29 Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque) 11:56:29 Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque) 11:56:44 `? HackEgo 11:56:57 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 11:57:41 theoretically Gregor maintains HackEgo 12:03:25 hm 12:03:39 using B8.fromString is actually not so good with partially read data :D 12:03:42 because that might fail 12:04:12 @hoogle Handle -> Int -> IO [Word8] 12:04:14 Prelude zipWith :: (a -> b -> c) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] 12:04:14 Data.List zipWith :: (a -> b -> c) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] 12:04:14 Control.Monad zipWithM :: Monad m => (a -> b -> m c) -> [a] -> [b] -> m [c] 12:04:54 So If I want Word8 i need to BS.unpack and use hGet Handle -> Int -> IO ByteString? 12:12:16 -!- v4s has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:14:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: MAYBE). 12:17:26 ...Why on earth would someone write a bot that runs arbitrary commands and *asks* people to try and mess with it? 12:18:28 -!- v4s has joined. 12:26:04 gamemanj: because it's sandboxed like hell? 12:26:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MULTIPLICATIVE CHICKEN). 13:02:29 -!- gamemanj has quit (Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.10.5 -- Are we there yet?). 13:31:34 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:35:58 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:42:08 WAIT A SECOND 13:42:13 ^\blsq 1 0?/ 13:42:13 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:42:16 hahaha 13:42:18 I thought so 13:42:22 damn 13:45:56 -!- gamemanj has joined. 13:48:34 -!- cooper has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:48:50 -!- cooper has joined. 13:54:47 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:55:23 @hoogle NFData 13:55:24 Control.Parallel.Strategies class NFData a 13:55:24 Control.DeepSeq class NFData a 13:55:57 Can't make a derived instance of ‘NFData Exp’ 13:55:58 damn 13:57:45 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 13:57:47 ^\blsq 1 0?/ 13:57:47 Bun bun no happy with u now :( 13:57:54 ^\blsq 1R@<- 13:57:54 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 13:58:02 ^\pat main -> (main 9) 13:58:03 Nothing 13:58:36 ^\pat main -> (add 1 2) 13:58:36 Just 3 13:58:46 ^\pat main -> (atom (add 1 2)) 13:58:46 Just (atom (add 1 2)) 13:58:53 yay 13:59:03 ^\pat main -> (shell :(rm -rf)) 13:59:03 Bun bun no happy with u now :( 13:59:18 ^\pat main -> (putstrln (show 9)) 13:59:18 Bun bun no happy with u now :( 13:59:23 ok 13:59:29 ^\pat main -> 13:59:29 Bun bun no happy with u now :( 13:59:36 ^\pat main -> (add 0 :(1)) 13:59:37 Just {ERROR: (add 0 #(@1))} 13:59:47 have fun :) 14:00:15 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:01:25 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 14:01:27 ^\pat main -> (add 0 :(1)) 14:01:27 {ERROR: (add 0 #(@1))} 14:01:40 ^\pat main -> (eval (atom (add $0 1)) 2) 14:01:40 3 14:01:54 ^\blsq 3 14:01:54 3 14:03:50 ^\pat main -> (utf8_p #(255)) 14:03:50 NIL 14:04:03 ^\pat main -> (str #(65 65)) 14:04:03 #(@A @A) 14:04:16 ^\pat main -> :(Hi there) 14:04:16 #(@H @i @ @t @h @e @r @e) 14:04:57 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:05:06 Alright. Now it can do some lambda calculus, burlesque and some lisp 14:05:10 ^\help 14:05:10 Bun currently knows how to lol, html, annoy, blsq, rc, help_topic or help. (Use ^\_help _help) 14:05:21 and parse CoolHTML 14:05:26 forwhatever reason you'd need that 14:06:28 ^\pat main -> (str8 #(65 65)) 14:06:28 #(@A @A) 14:06:33 ^\pat main -> (str8 #(255)) 14:06:33 #(@�) 14:06:39 ^\pat main -> (str #(255)) 14:06:40 #(@ÿ) 14:09:20 -!- vanila has joined. 14:16:51 ^\pat main -> (cons @A :(B)) 14:16:51 #(@A @B) 14:17:21 -!- cooper has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:18:13 -!- cooper has joined. 14:19:04 -!- gamemanj has joined. 14:19:44 ^\blsq 2 2 .+ 14:19:45 4 14:23:02 gamemanj: \o/ Burlesque 14:23:02 | 14:23:02 /| 14:23:36 ^\blsq ""8{'1.+}E! 14:23:36 ERROR: Burlesque: (e!) Invalid arguments! 14:23:36 ERROR: Burlesque: (\[) Invalid arguments! 14:23:36 ERROR: Burlesque: (.*) Invalid arguments! 14:24:10 ^\blsq ""{'1.+}8E! 14:24:10 "11111111" 14:24:21 ...Yep, as I thought, I got it the wrong way around. 14:24:50 E! is an alias for .*\[e! 14:25:13 ^-blsq ""{'1.+}8.*\[e! 14:25:18 ^\blsq ""{'1.+}8.*\[e! 14:25:18 "11111111" 14:25:38 ^\blsq "1"cy8.+ 14:25:38 "11111111" 14:26:07 ^\blsq '1by8.+ 14:26:07 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 14:26:07 8 14:26:07 ERROR: Unknown command: (by)! 14:26:12 hm 14:26:14 ^\blsq '1b8.+ 14:26:14 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 14:26:14 ERROR: Unknown command: (b8)! 14:26:14 '1 14:26:17 ^\blsq '1bc8.+ 14:26:17 {'1 '1 '1 '1 '1 '1 '1 '1} 14:26:33 Strings arent Lists :) 14:27:10 ^\blsq ""{'1.+}{L[.<8}w! 14:27:10 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 14:27:27 ^\blsq ""{L[.<8}{'1.+}w! 14:27:27 ERROR: Burlesque: (w!) Invalid! 14:27:50 ^\blsq '0""{\/ 1 .+ ^^ .+ \/}8E! 14:27:50 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 14:27:50 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 14:27:50 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 14:28:02 ...That could've gone better :) 14:28:13 ^\blsq ""{'1.+}{L[.<2}w! 14:28:13 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 14:28:19 not sure why this doesn't work 14:28:24 ^\blsq ""{'1.+}{L[==2}w! 14:28:24 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 14:28:28 ^\blsq "11"{'1.+}{L[==2}w! 14:28:28 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 14:29:17 ^\blsq 2{?i}{.<9}w! 14:29:18 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 14:29:19 ^\blsq '0""{\/ +. ^^ .+ \/}8E! 14:29:20 "" 14:29:20 "111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 14:29:31 ^\blsq 2{?i}{0}w! 14:29:32 2 14:29:48 ^\blsq ""{'1.+}{L[8.<}w! 14:29:48 "11111111" 14:29:50 :D 14:29:54 dumb me 14:30:30 ^\blsq 2 1R@?^{.<100}TW 14:30:30 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 14:30:37 ^\blsq 2 1R@?^{100.<}TW 14:30:37 {2 4 8 16 32 64} 14:30:44 ^\blsq 2 1R@?^{1025.<}TW 14:30:44 {2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024} 14:31:27 ^\blsq 2 1R@?^{1025.<}TWvr 14:31:27 108832.04444444443 14:31:31 ^\blsq '0Pp""Pp{PP PP \/ +. ^^ .+ \/ Pp Pp}8E!PPPP 14:31:32 Bun bun no happy with u now :( 14:32:22 I assume you copied that snippet from somewhere :D 14:32:52 I'm just looking at the reference. 14:33:06 It didn't say what the global state stack was, so I'm guessing it's a second stack. 14:33:09 ^\blsq "2 2"pe10XXcy\/CO.+sp 14:33:09 1 0 14:33:09 0 1 14:33:15 ^\blsq "3 3"pe10XXcy\/CO.+sp 14:33:15 1 0 1 14:33:15 0 1 0 14:33:15 1 0 1 14:33:22 Of course, judging by the error, I'm guessing it's actually something a bit more sinister. 14:33:31 the global state stack is a second stack yes 14:33:40 but it's a little bit tmore sinister than that, yes 14:34:09 ^\blsq "5 3"pe10XXcy\/CO.+sp 14:34:09 1 0 1 14:34:09 0 1 0 14:34:09 1 0 1 14:34:13 ^\blsq "3 5"pe10XXcy\/CO.+sp 14:34:14 1 0 1 0 1 14:34:14 0 1 0 1 0 14:34:14 1 0 1 0 1 14:35:03 ^\blsq "2 2"psJPp++?d"*|"jCB{'*CNpP-]==}fuQ 14:35:03 **| 14:35:04 *|* 14:35:04 |** 14:35:17 ^\blsq "2 3"psJPp++?d"*|"jCB{'*CNpP-]==}fuQ 14:35:17 **|| 14:35:17 *|*| 14:35:17 *||* 14:35:28 ^\blsq "2 3"psJPp++?d"*|"jCB{'*CNpP-]==}Q 14:35:28 [*, CN, pP, -], ==] 14:35:28 {"****" "***|" "**|*" "**||" "*|**" "*|*|" "*||*" "*|||" "|***" "|**|" "|*|*" "|*||" "||**" "||*|" "|||*" "||||"} 14:35:32 ^\blsq "2 3"psJPp++?d"*|"jCB{'*CNpP-]==}f[ 14:35:33 {"**||" "*|*|" "*||*" "|**|" "|*|*" "||**"} 14:35:37 ^\blsq "2 3"psJPp++?d"*|"jCB{'*CNpP-]==}f[BS 14:35:37 **|| *|*| *||* |**| |*|* ||** 14:35:44 ^\blsq "2 4"psJPp++?d"*|"jCB{'*CNpP-]==}f[BS 14:35:45 **||| *|*|| *||*| *|||* |**|| |*|*| |*||* ||**| ||*|* |||** 14:36:16 Burlesque's fun 14:36:31 I'm guessing the state stack is for persistence? 14:36:36 yep 14:36:55 for example map/filter 14:37:04 ^\blsq {1 2 3 4}{1.+}m[ 14:37:04 {2 3 4 5} 14:37:10 ^\blsq 2Pp{1 2 3 4}{1.+}m[ 14:37:10 {2 3 4 5} 14:37:14 ^\blsq 2Pp{1 2 3 4}{pP.+}m[ 14:37:14 {3 4 5 6} 14:37:39 map/filter run the function on an empty stack 14:37:59 ^\blsq {1 2 3 4}{5 6 7}m[ 14:37:59 {7 6 5 1 7 6 5 2 7 6 5 3 7 6 5 4} 14:38:45 ^\blsq %dat=5 {1 2 3 4}|[%dat!y.+Y|]m[ 14:38:46 ERROR: Burlesque: (m[) Invalid arguments! 14:38:46 ERROR: Unknown command: (|])! 14:38:46 .+ 14:38:48 hm 14:38:52 ^\blsq %dat=5 {1 2 3 4}|[%dat!y.+Y]\m[ 14:38:52 ERROR: Burlesque: (m[) Invalid arguments! 14:38:52 ERROR: Unknown command: (]\)! 14:38:52 .+ 14:39:00 ^\blsq %dat=5 {1 2 3 4}|[%dat!y.+Y]|m[ 14:39:00 {ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! ERROR: Burlesque: (e!) Invalid arguments! 5 1 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! ERROR: Burlesque: (e!) Invalid arguments! 5 2 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! ERROR: Burlesque: (e!) Invalid arguments! 5 3 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! ERROR: Burlesque: (e!) Invalid arguments! 5 4} 14:39:10 ^\blsq %dat=5 {1 2 3 4}|[%dat?y.+Y]|m[ 14:39:11 {6 7 8 9} 14:39:13 ah there we go 14:39:15 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:39:36 newer but not released versions of Burlesque have global variables as well 14:39:36 ah ... um, what does Y do? 14:39:42 b_jonas: quote 14:39:47 ^\blsq "0"{\/ -] +. ^^ .+ [- \/ .+ \/}8E! 14:39:47 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 14:39:47 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 14:39:47 ERROR: Burlesque: ([-) Invalid arguments! 14:39:55 oh... right, you mentioned that 14:39:58 ^\blsq |[1 2.+3.*]| 14:39:58 {9} 14:40:04 ^\blsq |[1 2.+y3.*Y]| 14:40:04 {3 3 .*} 14:40:09 ^\blsq |[1 2.+y3.*Y]|E! 14:40:09 ERROR: Burlesque: (e!) Invalid arguments! 14:40:09 ERROR: Burlesque: (\[) Invalid arguments! 14:40:09 ERROR: Burlesque: (.*) Invalid arguments! 14:40:11 ^\blsq |[1 2.+y3.*Y]|e! 14:40:12 9 14:40:28 ^\blsq "0"{\/ ^^ -] +. ^^ .+ [- \/ .+ \/}8E! 14:40:28 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 14:40:28 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 14:40:28 ERROR: Burlesque: ([-) Invalid arguments! 14:40:35 ^\blsq %a=1 %b=2 {%a? %b?} 14:40:35 {__INTERNAL__ __INTERNAL__} 14:40:39 vs 14:40:46 ^\blsq %a=1 %b=2 |[%a? %b?]| 14:40:46 {1 2} 14:40:56 [ 5 + 1 2 3 4 14:40:57 b_jonas: 6 7 8 9 14:41:14 ^\blsq 5 4ro?+ 14:41:14 {6 7 8 9} 14:41:34 [ 6+i.4 14:41:35 b_jonas: 6 7 8 9 14:41:44 [ i:6j4 14:41:45 b_jonas: _6 _3 0 3 6 14:42:25 [wiki] [[List of quines]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42076&oldid=41984 * 86.185.150.240 * (+353) /* Real Quines */ 14:42:29 ^\blsq "0"{\/ ^^ -] +. [- \/ .+ \/}8E! 14:42:30 ERROR: Burlesque: (+.) Invalid arguments! 14:42:30 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 14:42:30 ERROR: Burlesque: ([-) Invalid arguments! 14:44:04 whats i: j? 14:44:11 ^\blsq ERROR: asd 14:44:21 ^\blsq "0"{\/ ^^ -] +. [- \/ .+ \/}8E! 14:44:21 ERROR: Burlesque: (+.) Invalid arguments! 14:44:21 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 14:44:21 ERROR: Burlesque: ([-) Invalid arguments! 14:44:33 ^\blsq ERROR: Burlesque: (+.) Invalid arguments! 14:44:33 ERROR: Unknown command: (s!)! 14:44:33 ERROR: Unknown command: (nt)! 14:44:33 ERROR: Unknown command: (me)! 14:44:58 \blsq ERROR: Unknown command: (me)! 14:45:03 ^\blsq ERROR: Unknown command: (me)! 14:45:03 ERROR: (line 1, column 30): 14:45:04 unexpected end of input 14:45:19 -.- 14:45:25 ^\annoy vanilla 14:45:25 vanilla: What color does the dress have? 14:45:58 you're bullying me 14:46:11 bunbunbot!*@* added to ignore list. 14:46:11 int-e!*@* added to ignore list. 14:47:09 It would be funnier to ask that question to color blind people 14:47:12 Is it green or is it red? 14:48:27 ^\blsq "0"{\/ ^^ -] +. \/ [- \/ .+ \/}8E! 14:48:27 ERROR: Burlesque: (-]) Invalid arguments! 14:48:27 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 14:48:27 ERROR: Burlesque: ([-) Invalid arguments! 14:49:25 ...Why would a bot have a "annoy" command? 14:49:41 ... for science 14:50:20 gamemanj: actually, I think that's the plugin name, and there's ten commands that call into that plugin 14:50:39 well 14:50:41 shut up then 14:50:42 :D 14:50:49 I'm here to annoy 14:50:51 It's my job 14:50:56 else I'd be useless in this channel 14:50:59 ...That's not the nicest job. 14:51:16 -!- skj3gg has joined. 14:51:47 I still hope that guy with the BANCStar interpreter will eventually turn up with the half-working interpreter floppy 14:51:50 ^\html annoy 14:51:50 Node "b" [] [Text "annoy"] 14:52:05 b_jonas: I really doubt that 14:52:14 ^\blsq "0"{\/ ^^ -] +. \/ [- \/ .+ \/}2.*e!2.*e!2.*e!e! 14:52:15 \/ 14:52:15 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 14:52:15 ERROR: Burlesque: ([-) Invalid arguments! 14:52:27 gamemanj: mroman.ch/burlesque 14:52:32 mroman: oh come on, we've seen someone ^\kill today already 14:52:32 there's also an online interpreter ;) 14:52:43 ^\kill b_jonas 14:52:43 Little Bunny doesn't know how to handle that :( 14:52:43 oh, you mean you doubt the BANCStar 14:53:56 bunbunbot is a burlesque, rc, and lisp bot 14:54:00 mostly 14:54:09 ^\html Hi 14:54:09 Error "(line 1, column 18):\nunexpected \"\\\"\"" 14:54:13 ^\rc ({x.xx}v) 14:54:13 error: (line 1, column 6): 14:54:13 unexpected "x" 14:54:13 expecting white space or "}" 14:54:20 ^\rc ({x.(xx)}v) 14:54:20 (vv) 14:54:47 b_jonas: that's not valid CoolHTML 14:54:58 ^\html 14:54:58 Node "script" [("language","javascript")] [Text "huehue"] 14:55:14 I wish mroman would leave 14:55:16 ^\html 14:55:16 Error "(line 1, column 18):\nunexpected \"\\\"\"" 14:55:25 vanila: well 14:55:31 I can give you my address and you can shoot me 14:55:34 if that helps you 14:55:46 that'd be illegal though 14:55:55 not in every country but in most 14:56:20 b_jonas: CoolHTML doesn't have " 14:56:43 CoolHTML??? 14:57:04 gamemanj: I'm crazy. 14:57:07 So 14:57:12 don't ask too many questions about what I do 14:57:27 it's a stripped down HTML 14:57:29 but 14:57:31 RLON is much cooler 14:57:39 I should integrate that into my bot too 14:58:01 somehow 14:58:02 but not today 14:58:39 ^\html 14:58:39 Error "(line 1, column 16):\nunexpected \"/\"" 14:58:48 ^\html a 14:58:48 Node "mark" [] [Node "foobar" [] [Text "a"]] 14:58:58 also there are no empty elements apparentely :D 14:59:51 ^\pat main -> (reverse #(1 2 3)) 14:59:51 #(3 2 1) 15:01:04 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 15:01:06 ^\html 15:01:06 Error "(line 1, column 10):\nunexpected \"\\\"\"" 15:05:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:05:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:05:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:06:33 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:06:37 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:06:38 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:07:36 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:07:40 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:07:41 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:08:39 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:08:44 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:08:44 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:09:43 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:09:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:09:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:10:46 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:10:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:10:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:11:26 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:11:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:11:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:12:06 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:12:10 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:12:11 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:12:46 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:12:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:12:51 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:13:26 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:13:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:13:31 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:13:46 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:13:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:13:51 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:14:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:14:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:14:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:15:53 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:15:57 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:15:57 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:16:56 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:17:00 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:17:01 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:17:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:18:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:18:04 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:19:02 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:19:04 -!- glogbot has joined. 15:19:06 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:19:07 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:22:16 -!- EgoBot has joined. 15:27:56 -!- FireFly has quit (Changing host). 15:27:56 -!- FireFly has joined. 15:30:53 -!- Lymia has joined. 15:37:29 J_Arcane: like my lisp has? 15:37:47 mroman: I haven't seen your full lisp, only the rlon stuff. 15:38:02 ^\pat main -> (atom (person (age 19) (weight 50))) 15:38:02 (atom (person (age 19) (weight 50))) 15:38:11 ^\pat main -> (e_args (atom (person (age 19) (weight 50)))) 15:38:11 #((atom (age 19)) (atom (weight 50))) 15:38:18 ^\pat main -> (head (e_args (atom (person (age 19) (weight 50))))) 15:38:18 (atom (age 19)) 15:38:24 ^\pat main -> (e_unatom (head (e_args (atom (person (age 19) (weight 50)))))) 15:38:24 {ERROR: (e_unatom (atom (age 19)))} 15:38:33 ^\pat main -> (e_args (head (e_args (atom (person (age 19) (weight 50)))))) 15:38:33 #((atom 19)) 15:38:39 ^\pat main -> (e_unatom (e_args (head (e_args (atom (person (age 19) (weight 50))))))) 15:38:39 {ERROR: (e_unatom #((atom 19)))} 15:38:45 oops 15:38:51 ^\pat main -> (e_unatom (head (e_args (head (e_args (atom (person (age 19) (weight 50)))))))) 15:38:51 19 15:38:54 there we go :) 15:39:11 that extracts the value of age out of it again 15:39:25 there are just primitives yet to work on such structures so it's rather annoying right now 15:39:37 but I was planning on adding more commands to work with such structures 15:40:04 (although my lisp doesn't use RLON yet) 15:40:17 but the plan was to eventually use it 15:42:24 J_Arcane: ^- those structures are just "closures" you can manipulate using built-ins 15:42:55 e_args returns the arguments 15:43:08 ^\pat -> (e_args (atom (add 5 8))) 15:43:08 Bun bun no happy with u now :( 15:43:23 ^\pat main -> (e_args (atom (add 5 8))) 15:43:23 #((atom 5) (atom 8)) 15:43:32 Ugh, why do I struggle so much with reading other people's code? 15:46:12 ^\pat -> map -> (if (head $1) (cons (eval $0 (head $1)) (map $0 (tail $1))) #()) main -> 9 15:46:12 Bun bun no happy with u now :( 15:46:19 ^\pat -> map -> (if (head $1) (cons (eval $0 (head $1)) (map $0 (tail $1))) #())) main -> 9 15:46:20 Bun bun no happy with u now :( 15:46:23 hm 15:47:18 ^\pat -> map -> (if (head $1) (cons (eval $0 (head $1)) (map $0 (tail $1))) #()) main -> 9 15:47:19 Bun bun no happy with u now :( 15:47:27 ^\pat map -> (if (head $1) (cons (eval $0 (head $1)) (map $0 (tail $1))) #()) main -> 9 15:47:27 9 15:47:33 ow. that -> in front was wrong 15:47:58 ^\pat map -> (if (head $1) (cons (eval $0 (head $1)) (map $0 (tail $1))) #()) main -> (map (atom (e_unatom $0)) (e_args (atom (add 1 2)))) 15:47:58 #(1 2) 15:48:00 mroman: The robot revolution has begun. "Bun bun no happy with u now...time to take over earth" :) 15:48:27 I guess bunbunbot should load prelude with some helpful functions :) 15:48:34 otherwise map isn't available etc. 15:50:21 J_Arcane: Do you have exceptions? 15:50:27 in Hersey 15:50:46 ^\pat main -> (try (error) 9) 15:51:12 uhm? 15:51:16 ^\pat main -> 2 15:51:16 2 15:51:34 ^\pat main -> (try (show (error)) (show 9)) 15:51:54 ^\pat main -> (try (show (error 0)) (show 9)) 15:56:18 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:56:58 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:57:05 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:57:41 looks like some thing I did breaks exceptions :( 15:58:27 mroman: I have error, but no try/catch I'm afraid. 16:01:52 catch (eval q) (\(e :: SomeException) -> ..) doesn't work anymore 16:02:38 yep. 16:04:08 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:05:29 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 16:07:38 ok that's weird 16:07:43 it only works if catch is outermost 16:09:16 weird 16:10:33 Your Lisp is typed? 16:13:33 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:13:45 J_Arcane: No 16:13:51 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 16:13:53 not yet :) 16:14:02 ^\pat main -> (try (show (error 0)) (show 9)) 16:14:02 Ahh. Was curious about the notation. 16:14:02 #(@{ @E @R @R @O @R @: @ @[ @0 @] @}) 16:14:09 huh 16:14:17 still broken :( 16:14:26 that catch was Haskell code :) 16:14:29 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:14:58 I didn't even realize Haskell had try/catch. XD 16:15:22 @faq can Haskell try/catch? 16:15:22 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ 16:15:42 -!- mihow has joined. 16:16:03 J_Arcane: It can 16:16:07 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 16:16:09 but I think there are some holes in it. 16:16:14 ^\pat main -> (try (show (error 0)) (show 9)) 16:16:14 #(@9) 16:16:18 better 16:16:35 ^\pat main -> (add (try (add (error 0) 0) 9) 9) 16:16:35 18 16:16:39 ok. works. 16:16:53 ^\pat main -> (add 0) 16:16:53 {ERROR: (add 0)} 16:17:02 ^\pat main -> (try (add 0) 0) 16:17:02 0 16:17:45 ^\pat main -> (type 0) 16:17:45 #(@I @N @T @E @G @E @R) 16:17:51 ^\pat main -> (type (error)) 16:18:04 fwiw there's no String type 16:18:06 only list 16:18:06 so 16:18:21 :D 16:18:22 @I is the character I (usually 'I' in other languages) 16:18:22 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 16:18:37 ^\pat main -> (putstr (show 9)) 16:18:37 Y u make me mad? 16:18:48 but I/O is disabled for the bot obviously 16:18:52 I like strings = list of char, a la Haskell. I know it's not performant for large-scale use, but for trivialities it's soooo much easier. 16:19:21 yeah 16:19:22 but! 16:19:29 What language is \pat? 16:19:30 the problem is if you aren't really well typed 16:19:31 To the extent that I wrote functions for Heresy explicitly to allow the handling of strings as lists of single character strings. 16:19:48 you have to convert your List of Character to haskell strings to do stuff and then back again 16:19:54 and since lists are heterogenous 16:20:02 ^\pat main -> #(@A 1) 16:20:02 #(@A 1) 16:20:10 mroman: Yeah. Heresy gets away with it by doing the conversion behind the scenes. 16:20:11 ^\pat main -> (unstr #(@A 1)) 16:20:11 #(65) 16:20:23 you always have to filter out non-characters 16:20:34 ^\pat main -> (str (unstr #(@A 1))) 16:20:34 #(@A) 16:20:35 So you have to use head$ and tail$ instead of head and tail, but otherwise it's as easy as pie. 16:20:42 gamemanj: it's still in development 16:20:45 but it's a lisp dialect 16:21:09 Ah, I see. 16:21:47 ^\pat main -> (str #(65 66 67 :(hi there))) 16:21:47 #(@A @B @C) 16:22:04 ^\pat main -> :(hi there) 16:22:04 #(@h @i @ @t @h @e @r @e) 16:22:19 although for inputting strings there's syntactic sugar in the form of :() 16:25:45 J_Arcane: so you have map$ and things like that as well? 16:25:51 map$, filter$? 16:25:55 mroman: Yup. 16:25:56 for working with strings? 16:25:58 I see 16:26:22 Here's the string library: https://github.com/jarcane/heresy/blob/master/lib/string.rkt 16:27:17 There's a couple supporting functions as well that live in base, mainly the list$ function that allows for making a list of a string in the first place. 16:27:30 gamemanj: mostly to screw around with parallel things 16:27:37 It's not as seamless as Haskell of course, but it's as close as I could get. 16:27:47 http://codepad.org/zBYmmupA 16:28:23 i.e. there's eval_par to spawn threads and chan/var for sync 16:28:31 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:29:36 I even wrote a basic tail-recursive string format function. XD 16:33:58 Actually, wait, maybe I don't technically have map$ and filter$, though they're as simple as doing (map f (list$ ... I suppose I should just add them. 16:40:57 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:45:45 -!- skj3gg has joined. 16:51:55 -!- gamemanj has quit (Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.10.5 -- Are we there yet?). 16:52:51 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:53:30 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 16:53:30 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:53:33 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:53:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:53:47 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:53:49 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:54:53 -!- serika has joined. 16:58:20 <`^_^v> what should my file systems gimmick be 16:58:49 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:09:16 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 17:10:06 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:12:17 -!- gamemanj has joined. 17:13:50 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:22:28 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 17:26:41 -!- skj3gg has joined. 17:37:41 -!- koo7 has left ("Leaving"). 17:49:28 I may be overcomplicating my befunge program development process... 17:51:37 `^_^v: strictly parameterized IO blocks? 17:51:42 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ^_^v:: not found 17:52:54 -!- arjanb has joined. 17:55:55 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:00:26 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:01:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:12:21 -!- Fleur has joined. 18:14:41 -!- Fleur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:17:04 -!- Fleur has joined. 18:23:30 -!- Fleur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:24:07 [wiki] [[Clip/Examples]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42077&oldid=42044 * Ypnypn * (+47) /* Quine */ 18:24:49 -!- Fleur has joined. 18:36:33 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 18:37:50 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 18:40:28 -!- skj3gg has joined. 18:46:36 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Martin Büttner * New user account 18:56:08 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 18:56:48 -!- Vorpal has joined. 19:05:15 -!- mihow has joined. 19:08:59 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:09:39 -!- adu has joined. 19:15:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:16:09 -!- heroux has joined. 19:21:10 * oerjan stalks martin büttner and finds https://github.com/mbuettner/retina 19:21:42 "As an example, I've implemented a 2-Tag System "interpreter" in Retina." 19:22:03 i say this guy belongs here 19:22:48 So, basically a more powerful substitution language. 19:23:12 ...with some extras. 19:24:58 Neat. Also, seeing as he joined Esolang, he may already be coming here... 19:26:15 * oerjan notes that he's in london and wonders if fizzie sent him to the wiki 19:27:25 somewhat unlikely though, his interests are such that he would find us eventually regardless 19:28:42 (mostly going by codegolf.stackexchange here) 19:31:26 Doing some rather detailed checking, I notice. 19:31:43 i've stopped now 19:33:50 my initial thought was "i should google him to see if it's likely to be a real esolanger or a spammer" 19:34:16 then it went downhill to stackexchange 19:34:53 of course in reality i know no spammer can grasp the letter ü 19:35:13 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:35:56 now that would be an annoying spam deterrent: require at least one accent in account name 19:36:10 is that why they started spamhaüs ? 19:36:34 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:36:44 there's no ü in Haus, newsham 19:37:00 are you süre? 19:37:07 qüite 19:41:15 ah, I love family reunions (yafgc) 19:42:01 hey no fair making that your first comment when i was going to do it! 19:42:12 (poor lewie) 19:42:27 at least we know he gets better 19:43:39 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:43:40 * oerjan checks girl genius again. nope. 19:44:06 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 19:44:21 wolkerstorfer is quite a guy 19:44:47 if they're going to send the beast down the elevator i hope humongulus won't get hurt 19:46:13 also i hope this army won't fulfil wolkerstorfer's prediction about krosp 19:46:28 *bear army 19:49:51 -!- elliott has joined. 19:51:43 -!- elliott has quit (Client Quit). 19:52:24 now that was short 19:54:23 -!- elliott has joined. 19:54:57 elliott: boo! 19:55:41 o.o 19:57:13 * oerjan yawns 19:57:14 Oh, good 19:57:31 Hopefully Büttner'll write an article for https://github.com/marbelous-lang/marbelous.py 19:57:34 my sleeping cycle is more like a rollercoaster these days 19:59:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:03:13 -!- Fleur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:03:37 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 20:04:30 -!- Fleur has joined. 20:15:29 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 20:16:51 -!- serika has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:22:07 -!- skj3gg has joined. 20:26:46 well. 20:26:48 good bye. 20:27:07 -!- mroman has left. 20:27:35 now what 20:28:29 ...Well, we could always discuss why it's never a good idea to take code in a object oriented language, compile it into a lower lever object oriented language, then to a even lower level language, then to befunge... 20:28:54 -!- blsqbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:29:09 it was a rhetorical question 20:29:51 ...Ah. 20:30:33 it's always a good idea to compile to a language that is hard to cimpile 20:33:40 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:34:54 ...I guess so, it's just I'm wondering if it's getting a bit big. 20:35:59 just wondering if it is possible to design a language which is easy to compile but hard to compile to 20:37:48 -!- Fleur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:38:12 2014 meets those conditions: very hard to compile a usable program to. 20:38:24 By which I mean "impossible"... 20:39:19 [wiki] [[Burlesque]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42078&oldid=40461 * 188.61.138.155 * (+53) * deadlinks 20:39:48 -!- Fleur has joined. 20:39:49 impossible is boring 20:40:08 it has to be a tc language 20:40:24 -!- Froox has joined. 20:40:43 myname: I’m guessing it’s hard to make it hard more than once. 20:41:23 -!- Froo has joined. 20:41:32 huh? 20:43:31 Explaination: After the language(A) can be compiled to by language(B), and language(B) is easy to compile to... 20:43:35 My skiing vacation in France starts in four days, yay. 20:43:43 I mean, it’s difficult to make a language hard to compile to where the problem is not solved in the process of making one compiler to it, but the difficulty must be repeated for any new compiler to it. 20:43:44 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:43:46 [wiki] [[User:Feuermonster]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42079&oldid=40435 * 188.61.138.155 * (-440) * deadlinks 20:44:37 Melvar: that wouldn't be that bad 20:44:59 [wiki] [[User:Feuermonster]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42080&oldid=42079 * 188.61.138.155 * (-407) /* About */ * deadlinks 20:45:14 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:46:26 What makes a language hard to compile to? 20:46:45 that is the question 20:46:54 [wiki] [[The Esoteric File Archive]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42081&oldid=40649 * 188.61.138.155 * (-48) * deadlink 20:48:32 [wiki] [[ESOSC]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42082&oldid=39502 * 188.61.138.155 * (-114) * remove deadlinks 20:48:38 Ah, the way it was phrased I was thinking there might be such languages already, but that those languages are hard to compile themselves 20:49:38 easy idea: something with very limited memory capabilities that forces you to do prime number factorization all the time 20:50:05 Game of Life springs to mind as something hard to compile to 20:50:11 or something with strange flow control 20:50:13 I know of a language hard to compile to, but unfortunately it's already "broken". 20:50:32 FireFly: oh! 20:50:53 gamemanj: what kind of broken? 20:51:16 As in, there's a sort-of compiler to it, from a language designed to make programming in it easy. 20:51:33 Which means that going though that, it's easy to write a compiler for all sorts of languages. 20:51:40 What language? 20:51:54 BytePusher. 20:53:26 -!- nycs has joined. 20:53:44 i like the idea about game of life, but is there a compiler for that? 20:54:16 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:54:22 I don't think so 20:54:32 [wiki] [[Burlesque]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42083&oldid=42078 * 188.61.138.155 * (-516) - remove deadlinks 20:55:12 I'm not even sure what compilation would do in that case 20:55:17 [wiki] [[User talk:188.61.138.155]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42084 * Oerjan * (+134) Stop that please 20:56:11 you'd have to define io for example 20:56:20 Yeah 20:56:59 You could define it as binary data being sent in/out as gliders (or lack of a glider for 0) 20:57:23 Assuming the program itself only uses finite space of the game field 20:57:58 you'd have to specify where the gliders are sent in/out, though 20:58:07 [wiki] [[Burlesque]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42085&oldid=42083 * 188.61.138.155 * (+59) /* Quines */ (added non cheating quine) 20:58:42 Or you could have a area "reserved" for communication. A set of 9 "blocks", 8 for data, 1 to cause a actual output. 20:58:55 you could define it as destroyment of any glider 20:58:59 WireWorld would also be fun as a compiler target, though it's more obvious to see how one would do that 20:59:29 I think destroying gliders is usually part of normal operation 20:59:52 myname: You'd have to define "destroyment", and G.O.L logic does that all the time. 21:01:01 but it would word globally 21:01:20 -!- serika has joined. 21:01:27 "would word globally"? 21:01:44 You could define the positions for I/O in terms of a bounding rectangle around the program 21:01:46 work 21:02:56 A bounding rectangle would avoid any accidental I/O triggering when it wasn't asked for. 21:05:04 But another question is input-how is that done? Spawning in gliders from nowhere? 21:07:50 -!- oren has joined. 21:09:46 That was what I meant, at least 21:09:53 in some well-defined position 21:10:18 [wiki] [[Stlang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42086&oldid=30618 * 188.61.138.155 * (-64) /* Implementation */ (has been lost years ago) 21:14:18 [wiki] [[Stlisp]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42087&oldid=32997 * 188.61.138.155 * (-239) * deadlink 21:15:21 I wrote a "sort-of assembler" for BytePusher, although I don't know if that counts... 21:15:49 ...Well, does it allow computation on the actual BytePusher VM? 21:16:06 [wiki] [[User talk:188.61.138.155]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42088&oldid=42084 * 188.61.138.155 * (+145) 21:16:19 Unfortunately I don't really know how to classify that. 21:17:07 Well, Sprites and Nyan Cat (for example) work by doing a ton of copies for each frame, then setting the next frame pointer. 21:17:11 Something a bit unusual about BytePusher is that the first BytePusher program was released before the first BytePusher VM implementation was released, and these two releases were by two different people. 21:17:41 ...Perhaps someone had a private VM. 21:17:52 Yes, that's possible, I suppose. 21:19:34 It's not that hard to write. I wrote a BytePusher VM for GTK+, since I needed debug info. 21:19:56 (Course, not sure if said VM follows GTK+ best practices, but it works and gives me debug info, so...) 21:20:20 Stuff in BytePusher uses table lookups, it doesn't do addition and stuff by itself. 21:20:31 zzo38: that's not unusual. the first program for UM was released before the first UM interpreter was released, because writing an interpreter was part of the task 21:20:38 Here is an example program using my assembler: http://zzo38computer.org/prog/BytePusher/Munching_Squares.pushem 21:20:52 b_jonas: Perhaps, although they were written by two different people in this case. 21:20:55 So, your program does do these table lookups at runtime? 21:21:51 gamemanj: Well, look at it to see how it is working. The tables are created at compile-time and lookup is made at runtime. 21:21:57 [wiki] [[User talk:188.61.138.155]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42089&oldid=42088 * Oerjan * (+157) Yep 21:22:14 ...I'd call that "computation", or at least in comparison. 21:22:57 In comparison to what? 21:23:23 See the source to Nyan Cat: There's no table lookups whatsoever in the result. 21:24:05 O, OK. 21:26:48 Have I mentioned yet that 2015 is apparently major version bump year? 21:26:59 Really? 21:27:05 At least three major software is bumping their version number: gcc, Linux, octave. 21:27:35 (Gcc because of the severe changes in libstdc++, octave because of the gui becoming stable, I don't know about Linux) 21:28:12 ...kernel.org has 4.0-rc1 listed. 21:28:15 And it's only March, so it's still time for other software to plan a bump as well. 21:29:02 And this is only the software I know of. 21:29:07 -!- Koen__ has joined. 21:29:41 Lua 5.3 released. Not major version, but 5.1 was released in 2006, 5.2 in 2013, so.... 21:29:49 (on 12 Jan 2015) 21:30:00 -!- Koen_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:30:04 wait, linux 4? 21:30:09 what 21:30:23 oh? I thought they'd released lua 5.3 last year. ok 21:30:28 indeed it's this year 21:30:36 myname:The kernel has it's own version number. 21:30:52 i know 21:31:11 it just was like yesterday that 3 came out 21:35:20 Wikipedia states it was in 2011 that kernel version 3.0 was released. 21:36:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ZZZOMBIFIED CHICKEN). 21:37:04 But version 2 was released in 1996... 21:37:12 Major version numbers are losing their value. 21:39:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:39:45 gamemanj: I remember firefox took forever to go from 2 to 3 21:39:54 then slightly less to go from 3 to 5 21:40:05 and then three days or so to go from 5 to 15 21:40:19 ...Not to mention the fact that Firefox is now on, what, version INT_MAX? 21:40:26 36 actually 21:40:26 (that is, massive?) 21:40:30 Ah. 21:40:33 only 36? 21:40:51 well i'm using 36.0 right now, so unless I've missed an update... 21:41:01 also is it a coincidence that the number ends in .0? 21:41:20 and it has the same bugs as it's had for over 20 versions 21:45:46 and still requires resource limiting and pkillnining to prevent it hanging my computer 21:48:39 A new major version every 6 weeks, crazy. 21:49:24 (and indeed "major" has lost its meaning here) 21:49:29 I think they just came to the "we're never going to bump the major number ever" conclusion 21:49:35 this happens in many software projects 21:49:46 I know that with C-INTERCAL, the major number had been permanently stuck at 0 foreer 21:49:48 *forever 21:50:04 so I swapped the meaning of the major and minor version numbers in the interests of nonconformity 21:50:15 (e.g. it goes 0.28, 1.28, 0.29…) 21:50:27 Classic C-INTERCAL. 21:50:40 poor packager 21:50:41 s 21:50:52 Hey, they already have to deal with the .pax files. 21:50:56 Version numbers should be integers. 21:51:04 yep, Debian screwed up and accidentally violated their own version number policy in a permanently irreversible way 21:51:43 (i.e. in order to be able to conform with the policy in future, you'd either need a change to dpkg, or else to retroactively change every single computer with C-INTERCAL installed via dpkg) 21:51:56 pikhq: but pax is a standard format 21:52:02 also it's forwards-compatible with tar 21:52:12 Well yes. But who *knows* that? :) 21:52:12 (the latter makes it pretty easy to use in practice) 21:52:27 * pikhq does know 21:52:33 apparently Apple, they've been known to distribute paxfiles on occasion 21:52:42 I'm also of the opinion that tar and cpio should be wrappers for pax. 21:53:44 $ file ick-0.-2.0.29.pax 21:53:45 ick-0.-2.0.29.pax: POSIX tar archive 21:53:55 you mean pax(1), presumably? I take it it handles CPIO too? 21:53:57 next you're going to suggest that zip, rar, arj, lha, etc. should be abandoned... 21:53:59 I generate paxfiles using GNU tar 21:54:05 Yes, pax(1) does handle CPIO. 21:54:10 which has an option to generate pax instead 21:54:24 (ordered in perceived popularity. or rar-ity) 21:54:31 Well, specifically, the version numbers used in software should be sequential positive integers. the ones used in marketig could be anything 21:54:31 s/in/by/ 21:54:33 It also handles ustar instead of pax, too. 21:54:49 ustar's basically an inferior version of pax, isn't it? 21:54:56 Ish. 21:55:30 ustar is an extensible tar format, pax is ustar with certain extensions defined. 21:55:34 wait, why do I get a lot of pony pictures when googling "rarity"? 21:55:48 int-e: it's the name of one of the my little pony main cast 21:55:54 rarity is the name of a character from MLP 21:56:09 I didn't want to know that! Google must hate me ;-) 21:56:54 (Or perhaps I should stop using it for spellchecking.) 21:56:54 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:57:00 oren: not just "a character", one of the main characters 21:57:07 * ais523 suspects fan might be malfunctioning 21:57:11 * ais523 runs an infinite loop to check 21:57:14 nope, it seems to be fine 21:57:30 lol, that a good way to check? 21:57:35 For the record, I'm slightly bemused but not genuinely upset. 21:57:45 on some computers it's pretty effective yes 21:57:55 you need to combine it with a temperature sensor though 21:58:00 in case the fan /isn't/ working 21:58:06 ais523: are there named non-main characters? 21:58:20 yes, tons 21:58:42 I don't watch it but I listen to a lot of music based on it 21:58:45 (it's hard to avoid this sort of knowledge, sadly, if you've been online in the past few years) 21:58:59 I mean with names other than "the dragon" or "the chimera" or whatnot 21:59:03 yes 21:59:36 hmm, looks like this laptop has two temperature sensors 21:59:51 one is currently measuring 49 degrees C, the other measuring 51 degrees C 21:59:58 well within the safe range for a CPU temperature sensor 22:00:30 (please don't use sarcasm right now cause I'm actually learning from what you say) 22:00:39 I'm not 22:01:53 one of my previous laptops had severe fan trouble 22:01:53 I think the fan was meant to turn on at 60? not sure, might have been 50 22:02:10 Are any BytePusher programs hand-coded? I know there is at least one hand-coded Z-machine program (ziptrap_002 is hand-coded); are there others? 22:02:59 My old computer used to run at about 130 degrees 22:03:48 Koen__: Most of the time, sarcasm is easy to detect even on IRC. 22:04:10 I try to read youtube comments on occasions 22:04:20 I'm pretty convinced some of them are sarcasm 22:04:58 I never read them 22:05:10 Except to find out song titles 22:06:09 -!- not^v has joined. 22:07:08 -!- delexus has joined. 22:08:37 oh, anyway, I had a question for #esoteric 22:08:53 something that looks like it might come out of my research is a system of inequalities 22:09:00 i.e. a != b, b != c, a != d, etc. 22:09:11 obviously you can solve this by making all the values different 22:09:11 I'd call those disequalities, carry on. 22:09:16 err, yes 22:09:27 I assume there's probably some algorithm to find the minimum number of values it's possible with, though 22:09:37 it's a graph coloring problem 22:09:44 graph coloring 22:10:00 specifically vertec coloring 22:10:23 ooh, ofc 22:10:25 each inequality is an edge 22:10:28 I didn't make the connection, but now I have 22:10:37 thanks, I should be able to take it from here 22:10:54 (sadly nothing forces these graphs to be planar, or the answer would be "4") 22:11:25 NP-hard, but compiler writers are interested in good approximations. 22:12:05 compiler writing is the context where this came up, eys 22:12:07 *yes 22:12:13 oh wow, and just /now/ I've made the connection to register allocation 22:12:25 thank you #esoteric 22:18:08 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:19:23 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 22:24:46 -!- ^v has joined. 22:26:38 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:38:27 -!- delexus has left ("Leaving"). 22:48:44 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:52:59 -!- boily has joined. 23:04:48 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 23:15:05 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:24:20 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:27:15 -!- adu has joined. 23:29:00 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:47:47 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 23:50:53 -!- hjulle has joined. 23:52:54 -!- Lymia has joined. 23:58:23 -!- chaosagent has joined. 23:59:36 -!- Fleur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2015-03-03: 00:00:50 -!- qlkzy has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 00:03:34 -!- chaosagent has quit (Quit: Bye.). 00:10:21 -!- MDude has joined. 00:13:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: IMPRINTED CHICKEN). 00:43:46 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:52:54 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:53:30 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:54:08 -!- skj3gg has joined. 00:58:02 -!- vanila has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:59:06 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 00:59:58 So, some notions of a "theory" admit a notion of a "free model" and some of them don't. 01:00:30 Suppose that by "theory" we mean "variety of algebras". I'm pretty sure a variety of algebras always has a free model. 01:00:52 -!- skj3gg has joined. 01:01:22 It's just the collection of all equivalence classes of constant expressions, where two expressions are equivalent if the axioms require them to be equal. 01:02:33 First-order logic doesn't admit a notion of a free model, though. 01:02:48 can anyone here think of a good use for the lda ($*,x) (where * is any 8-bit integer) instruction in 6502 assembler? 01:02:51 You can do the Henkin construction, but the Henkin construction requires making a lot of arbitrary choices. 01:02:59 (But not, conveniently enough, the axiom of choice.) 01:03:25 ais523: well, what does that do? 01:04:04 tswett: it's basically equivalent to *(c[X]) in C, where c is a constant pointer and X is a register; however, the resulting address has to be in the first 256 bytes of memory 01:05:27 -!- chaosagent has joined. 01:05:29 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 01:05:36 So c is an immediate value and X is the value in a register? 01:06:00 yep 01:06:21 the problem being that you can't really use this as an array of pointers because you have to put it in a particularly valuable bit of memory 01:06:21 ais523: As far as I remember I have not used that addressing mode 01:06:32 zzo38: neither have I, and I've written some 6502 assembler too 01:06:45 Although if I find it useful I might to do so 01:06:48 (also I'm not surprised you've worked on 6502 asm, although technically your statement doesn't imply that you have) 01:07:17 I don't quite remember all my addressing modes. 01:07:25 I have worked on 6502 asm, and what I have used is several unofficial opcodes, but not that 01:08:14 what did the unofficial opcodes do? 01:08:24 IIRC they're mostly random mixes of intended opcodes 01:08:57 There are many, for example ANC #immediate will act like AND #imm but also copies the high bit to the carry flag. 01:09:47 LAX will load into both A and X register, but the immediate form of this opcode is unstable so I don't use the immediate mode. (6502: Even the bugs have bugs.) 01:10:04 ANC looks like a pretty useful opcode 01:10:11 although presumably it works differently on different 6502s 01:11:03 On different version any unofficial opcode may fail, but it works on an actual 6502. 01:11:32 (However, what I am programming for isn't quite an actual 6502; it is an actual 6502 with a few traces cut so that decimal mode won't work.) 01:12:55 This is what it does on Famicom, and now Famicom VM is defined to do those things (although the purpose of unofficial opcodes wasn't defined before Super Nintendo was released, as far as I understand). 01:13:13 I'm thinking mostly about NES right now, which is quite similar to Famicom 01:13:48 -!- chaosagent has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:13:50 Yes, it is quite similar and the same CPU, APU, and PPU is in use too (except PAL NES) 01:14:10 The SED and CLD therefore, will still affect the decimal flag, but this flag does nothing except that it is visible when the flags are pushed to the stack. 01:15:56 What stuff have you written 6502 codes for? 01:17:17 I was writing for the BBC Micro 01:17:19 just for fun 01:17:25 BBC Micro B, specifically 01:17:28 it had a BASIC interpreter in ROM 01:20:42 -!- qlkzy has joined. 01:21:25 I think I have once worked with an emulator that emulates BBC Micro, although I didn't know much about the features specific to its BASIC interpreter 01:22:46 it also had an assembler in ROM 01:26:03 O, it did? I didn't know that either 01:26:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:27:15 -!- oren has joined. 01:28:48 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 01:29:04 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 01:30:44 -!- Sketra has joined. 01:30:50 Ya feks 01:32:23 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:32:46 -!- ^v has joined. 01:32:48 ? 01:35:14 its_some_kind_of_elvish_i_cant_read_it.jpg 01:35:36 -!- skj3gg has joined. 01:36:30 hm... what country is .za 01:37:51 Idk 01:38:20 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:39:03 I searched for "ya feks" and i got some stuff from .za, .su, and .ru 01:39:24 -!- Lymia has joined. 01:40:26 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 01:40:27 The national TLDs for Zouth Africa, Sumeria and Ruritania. 01:40:29 ya feks is a more toned down version 01:40:33 Of you fucks 01:41:12 I see... south africa, soviet union, and russia 01:41:51 What country do you live in oren 01:42:20 .ca 01:42:29 Canada 01:42:33 yup 01:42:37 Have fun 01:42:57 Canada is only fun in the winter 01:43:12 What if I just 01:43:20 Burned sanfransico down 01:43:36 It seems very likely someone will do it 01:43:49 uh... san francisco is in America 01:43:55 yes 01:43:58 I know 01:44:16 I never implied I was talking about Canada... 01:44:41 Uh... So why would you burn san francisco donw? 01:45:19 Idk 01:45:24 Its a scum hole 01:45:36 Also that already happened in 1906 01:45:40 See 01:45:43 Flammable 01:45:47 By an earthquake 01:45:52 -!- serika has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:45:59 lol 01:46:05 Even better 01:48:07 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/San_Francisco_in_ruin_edit2.jpg 01:49:24 their fault for building on a fault 01:49:49 this conversation is surprisingly offtopic even for this channel 01:50:14 You know what else is a surprise 01:50:24 unless destroying cities is somehow Turing-complete, and I don't think we can manage that due to only having finitely many cities 01:50:58 No one can arrest me if they are all on fire ais253 01:51:14 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523. 01:51:23 seriously, though? can't you find something more appropriate to talk about? 01:51:31 Fine 01:52:01 -!- chaosagent has joined. 01:52:07 I wish irc had some sort of msg delete system but its just really a real time logging system 01:52:28 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -o ais523. 01:52:54 Do you want a kitty ais253 01:53:02 I just got like 12 01:53:05 not particularly 01:53:08 k 01:53:44 How was your day then? 01:53:53 (^oωO^)] 01:54:51 I can make faces with this language ㅎ-ㅎ 01:54:55 I slept in, then spent the afternoon thinking about my job, and got some useful advice from #esoteric 01:55:31 ^ㅅ^ that's good 01:55:49 I think IRC doesn't need some kind of msg delete system 01:56:21 Think of how useful that would be though 01:56:37 I went to work with my project group at school, but I didn't do anything 01:56:47 If you ban someone it delete all there messages 01:57:03 No, I disagree 01:57:23 anyone could remember that the message had been said, though 01:57:42 even if you delete all electronic copies, you're not going to delete them from the minds of the recipients 01:57:44 You can, however, parse the logs and filter out any messages of people you don't want (whether because they are banned or for another reason) 01:57:44 I spent the time helping the artists get their files into the repository and reading manga 01:57:51 But memory is useless 01:58:17 They'll forget within days 01:58:49 Seeing a string of insulting text upon a LCD won't be remembered for long my Good sir 01:59:12 for some reason my first thought in reply to that was "I'll have to get a CRT" 01:59:20 I might have the wrong attitude for this conversation… 01:59:28 Well what if I enable logging on my client 01:59:52 I believe in freedom of speech 02:00:03 Right. Freedom of speech 02:00:34 You can say what you want, but you can't stop people from reacting to what you say 02:00:52 unless the reaction is illegal in its own right 02:00:53 I cannot detect attitude over the internet 02:01:29 ais523: I was thinking of verbal reactions, but yeah 02:01:34 well, in my case, assume that I'm intentionally trying to push conversations into the absurd in an attempt to derail them 02:01:55 http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1375919!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/aquaweb19f-3-web.jpg 02:01:57 oren: Well, yes, although you should still be allowed to keep it recorded; other people should be allowed to write comment/complaint on it too though 02:01:59 (at least for offtopic conversations; with ontopic conversations, pushing them into the absurd is normally impossible because they're already there) 02:02:12 What are turing machines 02:02:15 I have a CRT in my basement that we are not allowed to throw out 02:02:33 Sketra: basically it's a computational model 02:02:42 here: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Turing_machine 02:02:50 -!- skj3gg has joined. 02:03:01 Sorry but the esolangs wiki is infinitely loading for me 02:03:01 or I guess the Wikipedia article is probably better 02:03:05 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine 02:03:10 underwater bicycles? 02:03:23 All wiki pages are infinite load 02:03:27 oren: ? 02:03:48 the picture sketra linked to. underwater bicycles 02:03:58 oren its illegal in California to ride your bycicle in a pool 02:04:03 oh right, I'm not used to people following links 02:04:25 I didn't technically follow it. I wgot it 02:04:43 ais253 What would you gain from pushing topic into absurdity its human nature to reply to dumb topics 02:05:01 Why should you want to ride a bicycle underwater anyways? 02:05:15 To avoid getting sweaty? 02:05:23 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 02:05:24 Try for a more reasonable approach such as "Lets talk about Programming" would be ofc a better example 02:05:35 zzo38 Twice the exercise 02:05:39 I've found it one way to try to moderate a channel without having to ban anyone 02:05:39 Water drag 02:05:45 another method is to have some ontopic conversations ready 02:05:51 and to start them up with someone you know will join in 02:05:59 but that's hard to do at ~2am UTC 02:06:05 (easier than at ~6am UTC though) 02:06:09 Go to sleep my dear sir 02:06:23 Fix your sleep schedule 02:06:54 It seem like it will be difficult to try to ride a bicycle underwater, but you can try, but nevertheless try to be careful please 02:06:59 오 _ 오 02:07:19 ais523: What timezone are you at though? And, what timezone other people at, too? 02:07:32 zzo38: perhaps an underwater exercise bicycle would make for a better, or at least different, exercise experience 02:07:41 and the country I'm currently living in is currently at UTC+0 02:07:50 its 6:08pm I don't do time zones 02:08:12 I just read the clock you can figure it out yourself 02:08:15 you're at UTC-8 then 02:08:19 I need to Vaccuum 02:08:30 that normally indicates the western edge of the US, although there are other possibilities 02:08:46 The forthmost answer is correct 02:09:10 ais523: Yes, at least it would make a different kind of exercise; it would do that at least. 02:09:42 Zzo38 it would be best to strap them to the bottom and have straps on the peddles 02:09:55 You don't do timezones? 02:10:14 You don't have to 02:10:28 ._. 02:10:34 You could use solar time, but that isn't quite the same use on the clock and on computer etc 02:10:35 I implemented timezones in NetHack 4 a while back, it allows you to specify any 15-minute offset from UTC up to (IIRC) +/- 1200 02:10:44 but no DST rules 02:11:02 Why do you need timezones in NetHack? 02:11:02 basically because I thought there might be a potential for DST-related exploits (like there are in second-gen Pokémon games) 02:11:11 because some monsters are more dangerous at night 02:11:27 it probably also affects moon phases, although I'm not sure that it should 02:11:44 I am in -0500 according to date 02:12:07 that most commonly implies eastern US 02:12:11 on my client it lists me as being in 2:15 Pm 11/19/1947 02:12:18 So I guess I'm fine 02:12:26 hmm, that's a weird time 02:12:37 I wonder if it's 32-bit INT_MIN interpreted as a date 02:12:55 no 02:13:00 Internal clock must have goofed 02:13:10 ill fix it later 02:13:35 nope, that's in 1901 02:13:41 $ date -d @-2147483648 02:13:42 Fri Dec 13 20:45:52 GMT 1901 02:14:03 Thats also December 02:14:12 2038 is the max 02:14:19 is it? 02:14:42 I think my client runs off my computers internal clock 02:14:45 yes. in 2038 unix date times willneed to be 64 bit 02:15:19 I may have been messing with time setting ealier and fell asleep before I fixed them 02:15:23 oren: I ran into that problem already 02:15:31 when giving one of the traditional 24-year bans on the wiki 02:15:35 2014 + 24 = 2038 02:15:40 but apparently it got fixed by a wiki upgrade 02:16:08 Why would you ban for 24 years 02:16:20 I'm usually devastated when I'm banned from sites 02:16:28 That's a bit much 02:16:31 A year an hour. 02:16:54 it's not bans for humans 02:16:58 but for spambots 02:17:09 I ran into a spam bot once 02:17:14 Enough to have them banned for one day if they spend it in some kind of time chamber. 02:17:19 They are verg weird 02:17:22 Very* 02:17:37 I used to run into them a lot, but the spam filters and CAPTCHA on the wiki have been holding recently 02:17:49 Also how do spam bots spam on the wiki 02:18:02 same way a human would spam on the wiki: create account, create a page, put spam there 02:18:14 except that the spambots have the huge disadvantage that they haven't figured out newlines yet 02:18:20 which makes them quite easy to automatically detect 02:18:28 What is it 02:18:47 basically, they make a page using entirely
or
as line breaks 02:18:56 rather than two newlines, which is the way most humans do line breaks 02:18:57 lol 02:19:11 Watch out ais523. 02:19:23 MDude: ? 02:19:51 I may be a bot -///- You just never know what humans can make up 02:20:00 Just kidding 02:20:16 Exactly, you could be spying to find out the secret of newlines. 02:20:17 I'm vaccuming 02:20:21 JUST 02:20:23 LIKE 02:20:23 A 02:20:25 ROBOT 02:20:30 why would I spam 02:20:46 I just told you I would be devastated if I got banned 02:20:49 MDude: actually, one of the most damaging things you can do to spammers is to waste their time 02:21:27 because spam has pretty tight margins, especially when humans get involved 02:21:31 What was the most catastrophic thing to happen to esolangs 02:21:39 like server wise 02:21:59 the server's been moved a few times 02:22:07 and the site's been down during server moves 02:22:16 that's it 02:22:23 also, it's not technically the wiki, but as the topic says, fungot is trapped in a house with no internet 02:22:44 -!- skj3gg has joined. 02:22:46 lol 02:22:59 You are funny Ais253 02:23:59 good thing this went from setting people on fire to underwater bycicles to turing machines to spam bot protection 02:26:49 yay 02:26:57 gnight 02:27:05 I'm off to do some deeds 02:27:09 and wills 02:27:38 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 02:31:35 -!- Sketra has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:33:50 -!- chaosagent_ has joined. 02:34:23 -!- chaosagent has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:34:33 Do you like to make up "Phyrexian Nix" card of Magic: the Gathering? 02:35:12 There is a "Nix" card in Future Sight, but now we can make up the Phyrexian version? 02:46:31 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 02:46:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:49:56 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:50:14 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:52:04 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:58:45 -!- AnxiousGarlic has joined. 02:59:39 -!- AnxiousGarlic has left. 03:11:42 -!- bb010g has joined. 03:37:43 Looking up reversible computing terms, what I'm trying to do seems fairly similar to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rc-table.png 03:39:04 -!- Lymia has joined. 03:43:11 OK, but what does the "v@ = w;" and "v = @w;" stuff means there? It says "constructive assignment" but I still don't quite know 03:49:33 I'm not entirely sure. 03:49:51 By constructive it means reversible, though. 03:51:11 Probably I'll just stick with making the language I was going to and look into whatever this idea was later. 03:57:42 I'll try to get back to this in the morning now that I've started writing things down. 03:57:48 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:58:49 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 03:58:49 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:29:36 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:30:00 -!- Lymia has joined. 04:31:28 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:32:34 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:41:09 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 04:53:24 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:53:47 -!- password2 has joined. 04:55:24 -!- dianne has joined. 04:55:46 -!- cooper has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:56:38 -!- cooper has joined. 04:56:50 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:01:36 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:04:24 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:04:58 -!- skj3gg has joined. 05:06:58 -!- password2 has joined. 05:07:15 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 05:07:42 -!- adu has joined. 05:20:50 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 05:24:33 Hmm... it would help considerably if matlab would tell me how long a computation is going to take. 05:27:37 it's unlikely to know 05:27:45 I get the impression that Matlab is terribly coded internally 05:27:59 e.g. at one point Simulink started giving me incorrect answers, then crashed 05:28:30 zzo38: I always thought Nix was overcosted; that's an interesting way of making it cheaper 05:28:39 but it would probably be overpowered in Vintage (and unplayable elsewhere) 05:29:59 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:44:52 grr... cp with one argument should copy it into the current directory 05:51:35 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:55:10 -!- cooper has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:56:02 -!- cooper has joined. 06:00:10 you can give . as the second argument 06:02:28 i know but i'm lazy 06:02:29 -!- Froo has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 06:04:11 出来た！ https://github.com/orenwatson/jpeg_tailor 06:07:22 ais523: Yes, I thought that too 06:10:10 I decided to start putting things online so i can reference them 06:10:23 That it seems like might be a bit overcosted 06:11:50 Still, I don't know how overpowered it would be in Vintage though; I'm not completely sure, nevertheless it might work if restricted in Vintage 06:12:15 (Someone else told me the name "Phyrexian Nix" isn't good enough because it has two "X"s in it) 06:12:32 -!- kapil___ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:13:29 should it have fewer or more? 06:14:12 They said two is too many, apparently 06:14:42 But, I just made up the name to be descriptive; I don't actually know if it would be the proper name or not. 06:15:41 phairekzian nicks 06:16:18 wait... doesn't "nix" mean snow in Latin? 06:16:55 I don't know, but nevertheless it isn't what I was refering to. 06:17:14 But if you understand Latin, then perhaps you can know. 06:19:20 hmm i was right, but the card is just named for the english word 06:22:05 so a phyrexian nix would cost 1 unstead of U? 06:23:23 No, it would cost one blue mana or two life 06:48:27 How likely is a phone to catch fire if it sustained arbitrary saltwater+fall damage? 06:49:19 [wiki] [[GOTO 10]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42090 * Qpliu * (+3052) Add GOTO 10 06:50:15 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42091&oldid=42068 * Qpliu * (+14) /* G */ Add GOTO 10 06:51:32 Hmm... i think it would depend on whether it was fully charged or not 06:53:29 It seems to be fully charged now 06:53:33 It's working, apparently 06:53:40 I'm just wondering if using it is a terminally bad idea 06:55:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:02:16 -!- heroux has joined. 07:05:22 salt water can cause the batteries to short-circuit but if that hasn't happened then i doubt it will 07:05:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:05:46 I would clean it with alcohol though 07:08:54 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: bbl). 07:13:32 What does "Hocus pocus Domi Nocus" mean? 07:15:35 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:31:10 zzo38: i long ago read "hocus pocus" a corruption of the latin eucharist, although i now see there are other theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hocus_Pocus_(magic)#.E2.80.98Dog.E2.80.99_Latin , domi nocus could be a corruption of "dominus", Lord. 07:31:22 *was a corruption 07:51:25 btw, it's ais523 lawful good day today 07:51:32 I was thinking about not mentioning it and seeing if anyone noticed 07:51:37 but that wouldn't be very lawful of me 07:51:51 `? ais523 07:52:10 Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. 07:55:04 strangely enough, the lawful part seems harder 07:56:36 that's because laws are actually evil hth 07:56:44 not really 07:57:20 NA NA NA NA NOT LISTENING TO YOUR EVIL RATIONALIZATION 07:58:09 I meant "it didn't really help", but it isn't really true either 07:58:15 they're tools that can be used for both good and evil 07:58:22 Laws aren't necessarily evil. 08:02:17 Although, it can sometimes be... 08:02:25 what is that strange bright white thing reflecting in the neighbors' window 08:02:40 is it the fabled daystar 08:21:53 -!- adu has joined. 08:36:45 -!- chaosagent_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:40:44 I don't know; you would have to look by yourself 08:44:27 but it's too bright to look at! 08:56:49 Happy lawful good day, ais523 08:57:00 thanks 08:58:06 what the hell is a lawful good day? 08:58:45 "lawful good" is an "alignment" classification in the roleplaying game dungeons & dragons 08:58:49 it's a little hard to define well 08:58:59 i know that 08:59:07 and according to the learndb, I'm lawful good on march 2 08:59:09 *march 3 08:59:29 what 08:59:45 somebody defined it for you? 08:59:47 `? ais523 08:59:55 Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. 09:00:04 I suspect it was in response to something I mentioned 09:00:09 not sure if it was me who physically added it 09:00:14 but I tend towards lawful good most of the time anyway 09:00:30 I mean, I don't /feel/ that lawful, but I tend to see pretty much everyone else as chaotic 09:00:38 so I suspect I just have a skewed viewpoint 09:01:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:01:54 that sounds pretty normal for an alien 09:02:24 I seem to have ended up flitting around the good alignments 09:03:16 I think ng/cg are probably the most common alignments in real life 09:04:04 i want to be chaotic neutral 09:04:08 myname, bad 09:04:18 why 09:05:24 I don't think it's impossible to live with a CN character 09:05:30 but their carelessness can put people in danger 09:05:56 as long as it's not me 09:06:40 myname, you are bad in my viewpoint because you contradict my sense of morality 09:07:02 negligence is illegal for a reason 09:07:13 (and a good reason, at that) 09:14:20 I implemented timezones in NetHack 4 a while back, it allows you to specify any 15-minute offset from UTC up to (IIRC) +/- 1200 <-- what do you have against the samoans 09:14:42 oerjan: that's what the IIRC was for 09:14:43 (also tongans etc.) 09:14:50 I'd consider opening the range a bit further for that 09:15:02 however, if it's too wide, people can use it to dodge inconvenient calendar days 09:15:49 nethack depends on days? 09:16:00 i vaguely recall something about moon though 09:16:20 the only thing the timezone even matters for is realtime-dependent things 09:16:45 -12 to +14 09:16:47 are the existing timezones 09:17:06 just allow -23:45 to +23:45 to be sure :) 09:17:15 oh, my current range is -13 to +13 09:17:23 that's both too strict and too loose 09:17:26 let me see if I can change that without invalidating existing saves 09:17:38 also, I think there are a few not on 15-minute boundaries 09:17:44 not sure though 09:17:48 not even 15-minute boundaries? 09:18:04 okay, maybe not 09:18:13 ooh, it looks safe 09:18:16 looks like 30 and 45 minutes are the oddest ones 09:18:33 (I mean, for the minute fields) 09:18:54 (if I've missed a country near the dateline or one with a weird offset, let me know) 09:18:57 yep, I should change this 09:19:17 testing now 09:19:54 +14 is ridiculous tbh 09:20:26 I should get into NetHack 09:20:45 or dwarf fortress 09:22:03 dooorfs 09:22:05 I'll help you learn NetHack if I have spare time and am online at the same time as you, if you like 09:22:54 myname, I do play Dwarf Fortress 09:23:16 ais523, thank you, but I have a lecture in 42 minutes and I am still in my pyjamas 09:23:26 right, the offer didn't necessarily imply right now 09:23:39 (I assume this is not the sort of lecture that could reasonably be attended in pyjamas) 09:23:39 Maybe some other time 09:24:03 (it's the sort of lecture that no-one has tried to attend in pyjamas, although I could probably get away with it) 09:24:09 nethack is way easier than df 09:24:10 who should I credit for this timezone range fix? #esoteric as a whole? 09:24:19 myname: well DF doesn't actually have a victory condition 09:24:25 so they're quite hard to compare for difficulty in that respect 09:24:27 (the issue is that it is 2.7 degrees outside and the lecture is a mile's walk away) 09:24:30 NetHack's interface is better, neither is great 09:24:30 ais523: !!fun!! 09:24:51 i meant difficulty in terms of learning to play it 09:24:52 myname: Fun is probably easier in NetHack than DF, admittedly 09:25:07 I can't think of a way to creatively suicide in DF /quite/ as fast as you can in NetHack 09:26:12 this doesn't really need crediting at all, I guess 09:26:19 but it feels wrong to not mention credit on lawful good day 09:26:30 gah, I'm going to be stuck with this sort of dilemma all day, aren't I? 09:26:33 The last time I tried to play NetHack, I drank from a fountain and then there were snakes everywhere 09:27:14 i mess up sokoban way to often 09:27:24 hmm, I'm going to say "well don't do that then", rather than the typical reaction along the lines of "YOU GOT WHAT YOU DESERVED, DIRTY FOUNTAIN QUAFFER" 09:28:24 Taneb: well don't do that then 09:28:29 ais523: just credit it to me hth 09:28:31 ais523, I will bear that in mind 09:28:50 bleh, I suspect I'm being trolled 09:29:01 I'll credit it to you if you like, though 09:29:05 (does elliott want credit too?) 09:29:18 hm? 09:29:26 you can write my name as "Ørjan Johansen, my Lord and Master" hth 09:29:45 there are other ways to write your name too 09:29:50 elliott: for the NH4 timezone change 09:29:55 (just trying to remove all suspicion here) 09:29:57 i don't desire credit 09:30:31 OK, I think this solves my issue 09:30:38 of course i won't complain much if you countertroll by taking me literally 09:30:56 besides, it lets me fit more non-ASCII characters into the commit log 09:31:07 but I think I'll leave the bit after the comma off, it seems inappropriate 09:31:16 on reflection, i think counter-troll needs a hyphen 09:31:46 I should start writing my surname "van D∞m" 09:31:51 hmm 09:32:08 I doubt most spellcheckers would recognise it without the - 09:32:13 on the other hand, language has a tendency to evolve 09:32:26 the #esoteric version would probably use a diaeresis despite the fact that diaereses don't work like that 09:32:48 counterẗroll 09:32:53 `unidecode D∞m 09:32:54 ​[U+0044 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER D] [U+221E INFINITY] [U+006D LATIN SMALL LETTER M] 09:33:07 `unicode LATIN SMALL LETTER RN 09:33:12 No output. 09:33:17 ais523: cöunter-troll? 09:33:18 that's what I expected 09:33:27 coppro: that'd be pronounced "co-unter troll" 09:33:28 `unicode LATIN SMALL LETTER RN 09:33:30 No output. 09:33:46 which is quite a neat word, but which would sound noticeably different 09:33:49 ais523: well if you want to get technical, the diaresis should be on the u, I dunno how that's pronounced 09:33:57 we need boily here as the diäëresis authority 09:34:44 err, you're right 09:34:59 diaeresis basically just puts a syllable break between two vowels, causing them to be pronounced individually 09:35:11 back when I was young, it was still mentioned in some books that taught English 09:35:38 Outside of this channel I've only seen in it in some variations of the name Zoe 09:35:40 I have a theory that it was driven almost to extinction by the use of ASCII-based computers (and also printing presses and typewriters to some extent, but those are better at them) 09:35:59 Taneb: right, Zoë and Noël were probably the most common uses at the time 09:36:15 (oë is pronounced "oh-ee", as expected) 09:36:39 But now I see that quite often without diaereses 09:36:40 Taneb: don't forget the Encyclopædia Britannica 09:36:43 the co-unter trolls, coënslaving the coübertrolls 09:37:06 oerjan, the categoric dual of übertrolls? 09:37:15 yep 09:37:28 ais523: that and the fact that it's really inadequate in modern English 09:37:31 oerjan: I'm genuinely impressed at the way you managed to work "uber"/"über" in there, leaving it ambiguous 09:37:31 Or are they trolls that are coüber 09:38:22 uld be 09:38:29 coü̈bertrolls 09:38:40 due to loanwords and calques, and the rarity of two consecutive vowel sounds, it really isn't that good 09:39:09 I think the main issue is that the hyphen is normally pretty suitable, it serves almost the same purpose in that context 09:39:10 coppro, how uncooperative and unscientific of you 09:39:30 sci-ence 09:39:33 I don't like the hyphen 09:39:46 I prefer coöperate to co-operate, where ambiguous 09:40:06 Hmm, I actually pronounce "science" with the same vowel sound as "fire" 09:40:48 actually, yes 09:40:57 "co-operate" looks like it has a meaning of "to operate alongside with" 09:41:06 "the co-pilot is responsible for co-operating the plane" 09:41:38 coop erata 09:42:04 I'll need to recooperate after this discussion 09:42:22 it doens't help that no native english speaker reasonably expects to be able to pronounce the vowels in a word based on its spelling 09:42:42 do any non-native english speakers expect that after a little experience? 09:42:51 and I don't think the situation's quite that bad 09:42:52 I hope not 09:42:56 some words don't follow a pattern, but many do 09:43:22 there are enough common exceptions to break things, though 09:43:30 like 'though' and 'through' 09:43:45 coppro, that's tough 09:43:47 and trough 09:43:48 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:44:08 Someone ought to fix that 09:44:27 I'm not sure anyone has the power; and if anyone did, they would probably get in trouble for using it that way 09:44:43 also some variants of thorough 09:44:56 ais523, not if they're thorough 09:45:13 I'm pretty sure some speakers will use five different vowels for those five words 09:46:37 coppro, I think there are 10 or 11 different ways 09:46:58 hmm, I pronounce the vowels as though = show, through = who, tough = stuff, trough = cloth (although the final consonant is slightly different), and thorough has two vowels but the second seems to be a neutral er 09:47:09 but I'm having problems thinking of a word with a neutral er in right now 09:47:35 slightly weaker than the second vowel in "partner" I guess 09:48:15 banana 09:48:37 yeah, that's close enough 09:48:43 possibly /too/ neutral though 09:48:45 ais523: yeah, those match mine 09:48:50 bleh, English is so variable 09:48:59 I love how "banana" has three vowels with the same letter and three different pronunciations 09:48:59 coppro: and yet, your accident is unlikely to match mine, due to the nationality difference 09:49:23 ais523: right. 09:49:27 welcome to linguistics 09:49:28 ais523, I highly doubt our accents match very much, or even me and elliott 09:49:54 for me, the word "thorough" rhymes with "full" 09:50:07 you mean matching vowels? or an actual rhyme? 09:50:08 with a slightly weaker, but still audible, l sound 09:51:15 I should really get dressed and leave soon 09:51:22 you do that then 09:51:33 barring someone with founder status going crazy, #esoteric will still be here when you get back 09:52:00 hmm, and the founder status apparently belongs to freenode-staff 09:52:23 a little surprising, you'd expect it to either belong to one of the channel regulars, or belong to someone who hasn't been seen for years 09:52:37 Maybe the original founder was deregistered 09:52:52 I made a Magic: the Gathering puzzle.2 but it still has some things wrong with it; I have thought of a few things to try to fix it, though, but I can tell you what is wrong. I need to ensure that if you have bad luck, you cannot win the subgame, and that opponent is able to get the chance to cast Golden Wish on the turn after you have controlled him, but not during that turn. 09:57:30 But that nevertheless you can still win the main game regardless of how the cards are shuffled in the subgame, who goes first in the subgame, or how much your opponent mulligans during the subgame. 09:58:21 zzo38: in that case, why wouldn't you just concede the subgame? 09:58:23 rather than playing it out? 09:58:47 hmm, now I'm wondering how the changes to the Wish rules affect subgames 09:59:10 can you wish for main game cards from the subgame? and can you riftsweeper in main game cards from the subgame? 10:06:05 wait... Riftsweeper is another card with the ability of Pull from Eternity? I thought they made only one such card, even in the block with suspend 10:07:03 and in green too... strange 10:07:16 I thought this would be a white or blue ability only 10:07:21 it's a creature rather than an instant/sorcery 10:07:35 I guess it's understandible because green gets to recycle all types of cards from the graveyard 10:07:45 Taneb: i remember the founder used to be someone with a greek-sounding nick 10:08:35 andreou? 10:08:38 ais523: This puzzle http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.2 you can't win by just conceding the subgame 10:08:41 and they indeed got deregistered, which isn't surprising given they'd been gone for years 10:08:44 Phantom_Hoover: that was it 10:09:12 And I believe that the rules allow you to take cards from anywhere in the main game as if they were in your sideboard; someone else confirmed this. 10:09:31 (I'm not sure what happens with exiled face-down cards you own but aren't allowed to look at.) 10:09:42 "Black Lotus [4x]" 10:09:49 somehow I feel that makes it a little less elegant 10:09:55 also, the rules used to say that 10:10:05 but they changed a few years ago, and I don't know if the new rules still say that 10:10:18 It was the newest rules that I studied. 10:10:30 And that I asked about. 10:10:47 ah right 10:11:08 ok wait, which white card exiles creatures and says in the flavor text that they don't use death penalty? 10:11:24 I don't know. 10:12:34 The current rules prohibit you from taking exiled cards from the current game as if they were in your sideboard, but does allow taking them from exile zone in a game that this is a subgame of, as if they were in your sideboard. 10:13:34 b_jonas: swords to plowshares, path to exile, oust are the best-known white exilers 10:13:39 wait, oust doesn't exile 10:13:41 it returns to lirbary 10:13:44 probably path to exile 10:15:21 ais523: hehe, those are the ones the most used in competitions, but to me Unamake, Oblivion Ring, Journey to Nowhere, and some blinkers are more familiar 10:16:52 You can't just concede the subgame immediately because the point of entering the subgame isn't just to half your life total, to shuffle anyone's library, or to look at the cards in your library (which you already know anyways). Opponent can't concede because then he would lose the main game too. 10:17:44 See? 10:18:00 zzo38: well, suppose you enter the subgame 10:18:04 and your opponent gets first turn 10:18:11 then you immediately lose it due to drawing from an empty library 10:18:33 can't you still cast instants before that? 10:18:40 oh wait 10:18:41 yes but you have no cards in hand 10:18:48 you lose when drawing your initial hand? 10:18:48 you start the subgame with an empty library 10:18:53 err, hmm 10:18:59 oh, it's so empty you don't even get your starting 7 cards 10:19:02 lose while you're drawing those 10:19:03 I assumed either you wouldn't lose, or you could avoid losing via mulliganing to 0 10:19:06 I think we need a judge for this 10:19:14 no, I think it's in the rules 10:19:16 I think you lose 10:19:20 You can lose when drawing your initial hand (well, just afterward; you won't lose until someone gets priority); even if you mulligan, I think. 10:19:24 you could possibly pull it off in Conspiracy too 10:19:34 via running eight "reduce minimum deck size" conspiracies 10:19:36 But that won't happen if you solve the puzzle correctly... 10:19:57 you'd need to put more cards into your library first, then, I guess 10:20:17 Yes, of course 10:21:26 Can you see how? 10:21:40 I'm not actually trying to solve the puzzle 10:23:11 The fact that there is no mana burn in the current rules is important because otherwise you might lose due to mana burn, I think 10:23:47 yes, look Shahrazad even has a ruling 10:23:55 "At the start of the sub-game both players draw their initial hand (usually 7 cards). If one player has fewer cards than required, that player loses. If both have fewer than required, both players lose." 10:24:20 that might be obsolate, btu I think the first part still applies 10:24:28 because the rules definitely say you _draw_ seven cards 10:24:41 Some of the rulings for other cards are disputed, although I do not dispute this one. 10:25:15 That specific ruling looks correct to me. 10:25:27 zzo38: sure, some of them are definitely obsolate because the rules have changed since 10:28:22 -!- gamemanj has joined. 10:53:34 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: lunch). 11:05:48 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: switching to a new server). 11:08:25 -!- nortti has joined. 11:08:26 -!- nortti has quit (Client Quit). 11:08:37 -!- nortti has joined. 11:08:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:22:40 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:23:01 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:25:20 -!- boily has joined. 11:27:25 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 11:27:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:27:39 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 11:31:22 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:45:35 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:48:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:56:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:58:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: meeting). 12:06:32 Tough, trough, though, through, thorough, dough, plough, hiccough 12:08:08 Oh wait, dough isn't unique 12:16:15 Jafellot. why so much matinal suffering. 12:18:13 Jafet: wait, I have a list 12:18:37 here: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:B_jonas#Pronounciation_of_-ough_in_Englishhttps://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:B_jonas#Pronounciation_of_-ough_in_English 12:18:43 how many there are depends on the dialect 12:31:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: VORPAL CHICKEN). 13:07:37 -!- cooper has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:08:29 -!- cooper has joined. 13:08:46 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:17:06 -!- atehwa has joined. 13:24:33 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 13:31:39 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:31:41 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:32:03 -!- hjulle has joined. 13:35:16 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:45:32 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:53:59 -!- Lymia has joined. 13:54:59 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:01:14 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:11:01 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:11:38 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:16:56 Well, I made it to that lecture 14:17:01 It was a very useful lecture 14:17:08 I registered to vote during it 14:17:22 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:20:35 presumably not in pyjamas 14:20:53 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:22:25 No, it was cold outside 14:26:43 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 14:45:58 -!- gamemanj has left. 14:46:49 -!- skj3gg has joined. 14:49:55 -!- gamemanj has joined. 14:51:52 -!- adu has joined. 14:53:43 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 14:55:16 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 15:06:01 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:09:03 -!- skj3gg has joined. 15:21:12 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 15:41:32 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:45:26 is there any befunge-like language for more than two dimensions? 15:45:37 trefunge 15:45:50 I'm not sure it's been generalized past two though 15:45:51 err, past three 15:46:08 i don't know one 15:46:23 it'd be possible using gifs or the like, but i don't know any 15:46:59 trefunge uses formfeed to separate planes, just like befunge uses newline to separate lines 15:47:43 -!- cooper has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:49:25 That must be a pain to program in. 15:49:41 You'd need a special editor to know that stuff actually lined up. 15:51:20 I think Befunge IDEs exist, don't know if they generalise to Trefunge 15:56:24 Unefunge is a fun language too 15:56:37 even if it's basically just a subset of Befunge where you don't have to specify y coordinates 15:56:55 is unefunge proven to be tc? 16:02:39 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:03:03 I'm pretty sure unefunge-98 is (assuming at least one fingerprint that gives access to infinite memory in a non-insane way) 16:03:08 (or even cetain insane ways) 16:04:04 -!- idris-bot has joined. 16:10:24 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:26:48 -!- mihow has joined. 16:32:49 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:35:46 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:38:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:59:42 -!- ^v has joined. 17:28:37 -!- gamemanj has quit (Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.10.5 -- Are we there yet?). 17:31:06 -!- j-bot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:31:34 -!- Koen_ has joined. 17:31:39 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:41:13 -!- mhi^ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:41:22 -!- Koen_ has joined. 17:51:31 -!- arjanb has joined. 17:54:52 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 18:07:44 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:14:20 -!- GeekDude has joined. 18:15:42 -!- skj3gg has joined. 18:27:24 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:40:35 -!- naturalog has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:46:42 -!- naturalo1 has joined. 18:50:07 -!- naturalo1 has changed nick to naturalog. 18:57:05 -!- Lymia has joined. 18:57:09 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:57:29 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 18:57:35 -!- TodPunk has joined. 18:59:43 -!- skj3gg has joined. 19:02:17 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:06:47 -!- MDream has joined. 19:10:17 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:10:22 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:11:51 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:12:17 -!- TodPunk has joined. 19:18:31 -!- naturalog has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:24:54 -!- naturalog has joined. 19:44:32 -!- nisstyre has joined. 19:45:30 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 19:45:30 -!- nisstyre has joined. 19:50:05 -!- j-bot has joined. 19:55:05 -!- nys has joined. 20:01:48 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:02:40 -!- aloril has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:02:56 -!- aloril has joined. 20:04:56 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:05:09 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:14:39 -!- Soni has joined. 20:14:58 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 20:15:45 regex meets brainfuck: https://gist.github.com/SoniEx2/36d2ccf875ea025c8fe5 20:17:31 -!- skj3gg has joined. 20:21:34 wait, where's the brainfuck? >.> 20:23:18 I meant it's made to be very simple 20:23:57 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSleep. 20:24:34 * elliott nods 20:24:42 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:24:48 I kinda think of regexps as regexps meets brainfuck already 20:24:54 especially in the readability department 20:25:01 yeah 20:25:11 that's what using % to escape stuff instead of \ solves 20:25:15 (see also lua patterns) 20:27:10 \\\\\\\\ vs \\\\ (or with "raw strings" just \\) 20:29:38 I mean not counting additional string quoting there 20:29:50 though it's horrible to write regexps in languages where you have to use normal string syntax for it yeah 20:31:13 (abc|def) is clunky, Lua's issue of not being able to do [a-%%] is also clunky 20:31:17 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:31:38 I solve both while keeping it simple 20:32:32 and ofc I also support being able to put [] inside [] (which's just silly but w/e) 20:32:38 I kinda like (abc|def) 20:32:43 it's just a composition of (...) and | 20:32:52 (you can actually do foo|bar at the top-level) 20:32:53 things I'm lacking: anchors and precedence 20:33:06 it's annoying how syntactic grouping without creating a match group is (?:...), though 20:33:14 meh, [(foo)(bar)] parsing is easier to code 20:34:04 hmm 20:34:23 I don't specify if groups are match groups or just syntactic groups 20:34:26 :P 20:34:37 (I mean in normal regexps) 20:34:40 I guess that's what version 0.1 is for 20:34:49 yeah ik 20:37:26 -!- gamemanj has joined. 20:39:12 -!- crinzesi has joined. 21:04:11 interesting fact: memmove is much slower than using memcpy with a scrap buffer. 21:05:23 it would be kind of bad if a large memmove caused a large allocation I guess 21:05:35 I think that is what happens 21:06:35 And the memcpy is faster because the scrap buffer is allocated only once 21:07:02 I seriously doubt that's what happens 21:07:28 you just implement memmove by going backwards or whatever 21:07:35 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 21:07:38 -!- elliott has kicked crinzesi spamming. 21:07:38 -!- crinzesi has joined. 21:07:47 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b *!*crinzesi@*. 21:07:49 -!- elliott has kicked crinzesi crinzesi. 21:07:50 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 21:07:51 That is what I would do, but why would it be slower then? 21:08:00 stuff about caches or whatever 21:08:01 memmove typically needs to check which part of the buffer overlaps and then go forwards/backwards as apporpriate 21:08:15 yeah but I doubt one branch makes that much difference 21:08:26 unless oren is testing with really tiny n 21:09:02 my tests were in the context of https://github.com/orenwatson/jpeg_tailor 21:09:23 To remove one pixel from a scanline I copy the rest of the line back 21:10:06 So N is in [0,4K] or something 21:12:14 -!- FreeFull has joined. 21:15:38 Hm... Maybe something to do with SIMD instructions? 21:16:35 -!- skj3gg_ has joined. 21:19:25 -!- skj3gg has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:33:05 How esoteric would you define this to be?: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21184720/in.oshl 21:33:42 -!- skj3gg_ has quit (Quit: welp, see you later.). 21:34:53 In Pascal, SQL, and some versions of BASIC, there is no string escaping but you can make the string delimiter doubled to make quotations marks inside of the string. 21:36:10 So what would happen if you had to output BASIC with "" in from a program written in BASIC? """"? 21:38:03 gamemanj: you have to write it as PRINT CHR$(38)+CHR$(38) 21:39:13 """""" 21:40:24 I prefer hollerith 21:51:32 [wiki] [[Clip/Examples]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42092&oldid=42077 * Ypnypn * (+27) /* Quine */ 22:04:13 110 FORMAT (13HHello, World!) 22:04:29 10 WRITE (*,110) 22:04:37 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:08:28 -!- Melvar` has joined. 22:09:41 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:10:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:11:14 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:16:20 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:16:43 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 22:17:06 -!- idris-bot has joined. 22:17:37 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit). 22:26:00 Hm. Assuming ZFC is consistent, it's possible to explicitly define a countable model of ZFC. 22:26:15 It's not computable, but it's definable. 22:26:23 Convenient. 22:32:42 -!- hjulle has joined. 22:32:47 Gah what is your definition of convenient? 22:33:37 What /would/ it take to make set theory computable 22:33:46 -!- ^v^v has joined. 22:37:47 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:41:09 Are there any programming languages where sets are a first class data type? 22:46:36 Hmm... It actually might be harder than i thought. you need some way of manipulating infinite sets without reifying them 22:49:10 yes, there are 22:49:37 there's one or two on the wiki even 22:49:48 also type theory is famous for doing this (though with types rather than sets, but) 22:50:08 also there are constructive set theories. you can compute with them 22:50:12 (depending on what you mean by "computing" though) 22:53:35 Hm... I guess I don't know what I mean by computing, except that calculators generally don't do it and computers do... 22:54:45 -!- idris-bot has joined. 22:54:48 I guess it's something to do with the complexity of the input versus the output? 22:57:26 Nah... more like, a "computer" has the ability to be programmed with new behaviour. 22:57:56 Whereas a calculator generally can't 23:00:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:01:45 So a computer where there are no programming tools would IMO be just an advanced calculator, not a real computer 23:04:22 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:11:13 -!- augur_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 23:16:04 -!- mitchs has left. 23:21:41 oren, so like... a smartphone is an advanced calculator? 23:22:07 a games console is an advanced calculator? 23:25:42 -!- augur has joined. 23:26:26 pretty much. Their behaviour is too closely linked to their input... Unless the game is minecraft or dwarf fortress etc. 23:35:55 'their behaviour is too closely linked to their input' what does this even mean 23:45:26 I agree that a computer without programming tools won't be very good. 23:45:38 Any computer should include programming tools built-in. 23:48:47 Also there are programmable calculators too 23:49:56 ^ 23:50:02 that's how I first learned to program 23:54:56 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 2015-03-04: 00:16:07 oren: have you ever used a modern smartphone 00:16:24 wait do we have modern smartphones now? 00:16:57 I can't keep up if smartphones are already no longer modern 00:17:34 -!- mitchs has joined. 00:18:01 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 00:19:11 I have used one yes... 00:20:39 oren, honestly i don't see any point at all in setting up rigid taxonomies like this 00:20:49 i never understand why people are so keen on doing it 00:21:47 I dunno if it's a rigid taxonomy, but there are things i would call computers, and i think to call something a computer means you can program it 00:22:07 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:24:13 ok, but that gets complicated when you consider the large category of devices which are programmable, but not by themselves 00:25:16 this spans things which are very like 'computers' (smartphones, consoles) to things which are more on the 'advanced calculator' side of things (stuff with upgradable firmware) 00:25:45 drawing a dividing line is pointless 00:27:53 Maybe there's no dividing line, but theres certainly a value of computeriness 00:27:56 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 00:28:11 where a computer is one and a rock is zero 00:29:18 that's such an arbitrary concept there's nothing certain about it 00:29:47 everything is arbitrary but some things are useful 00:30:07 My increasing tendency to wear ties despite not wearing a tie-appropriate shirt is beginning to get attention 00:30:30 Dude, NOOOOO 00:30:58 you mean you wear a tie with a t-shirt? 00:31:12 No, far too cold 00:31:16 You will soon lead the world to a new age of freedom. 00:31:21 With a fleece or a hoodie, generally 00:31:37 At least my opinion is that a computer should have programming tools built-in; that is the minimal software it should come with, although it is useful to have more 00:31:51 Taneb: I... you... what 00:31:58 Or wardrobe freedom anyway. 00:32:19 oren, that is the reaction I get from most people 00:32:24 And the reaction I strive for in life 00:33:11 OK you know what, I'll do that tomorrow 00:33:19 i got that reaction for a while because of how i walked up the stairs in lectures 00:33:27 Phantom_Hoover, oh? 00:33:49 when giving them you mean? 00:33:59 no, when entering them 00:34:49 -!- cooper has joined. 00:35:05 So you enter via the downstairs entrance and then climb to your seat? 00:35:29 Phantom_Hoover, can you describe your stairclimbing method? 00:36:03 no, i never quite pinned down what was odd about it 00:38:38 -!- adu has joined. 00:38:44 Sometimes when I am sat in the middle of a row near the front and want to leave at the end of a lecture, I clamber over the seats in front of me rather than wait for the people around me to move 00:43:41 I do that too 00:47:15 Anyway what if wearing ties with inappropriate shirts becomes a trend? 00:47:53 Then I will be a trendsetter 00:52:40 Well I have a presentation, which Ubisoft will be seeing as guests, tomorrow, so we'll see... 01:02:56 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:15:51 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 01:20:09 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:23:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:28:09 Is your presentation on the importance to have arms, legs, and a neck? 01:29:06 I somehow doubt that oren is going out on a limb like that. 01:33:07 -!- boily has joined. 01:43:14 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 01:44:00 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:49:13 @metar CYUL 01:49:14 CYUL 040120Z 15014G20KT 1SM R24R/3500VP6000FT/U R24L/4500VP6000FT/U -SN DRSN VV008 M05/M07 A2970 RMK SN8 PRESFR SLP059 01:49:33 Taneb: TANELLE! AAAAAAAAAAAH! 01:56:12 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:57:03 Mdude: Hahahahaha holy shit dude. Nah, we're presenting the beta of our game 02:02:06 -!- bb010g has joined. 02:02:40 Sounds nice, hope that's going well then. 02:03:10 Maybe I should put up what I have for this language up on the wiki as a prelimenary design. 02:15:19 sounds goog 02:15:27 s/oog/ood 02:28:54 I making Famicom Z-machine; the full picture is 32x30 tiles, but some of recommended overscan amounts suggest 30x26 or 28x24 instead; how much do you think would be enough? 02:33:03 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:40:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: EQUIPROBABLE CHICKEN). 02:45:51 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:51:08 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:05:13 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:05:49 -!- augur has joined. 03:29:23 -!- GeekDude has joined. 03:51:01 [wiki] [[User:MDude/Sipper]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42093 * MDude * (+3084) Created page with "Sipper is a reversible programming language designed with the idea of reversible logic as a requisite of physically reversible computers that can used to increase energy effic..." 03:51:23 I don't know how to get thigns formatted. 03:51:28 This doesn't look bad, it just looks weird: http://ctrlv.in/511789 03:55:48 MDude: Uh, how do you want it formatted? 03:57:09 Mostly the list of commands made into a list. 03:57:52 I'll see how another page does it. 03:58:40 The first comment wasn't a comment on the article, it was acomment on wearing a tie with non-formal clothes 04:01:38 Figured that out. 04:02:10 But yeah, that is too much tag entering for this late at night. 04:07:29 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:18:02 So, apparently Chrome hilights detected XSS in red in view source 04:20:59 O, it does? 04:21:46 That's my best guess as to how something managed to get hilighted red 04:21:48 when I viewed source 04:25:18 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 04:29:59 -!- Froox has joined. 04:30:32 -!- Froo has joined. 04:31:02 -!- mtve- has joined. 04:31:13 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:33:22 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:34:50 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:35:26 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:47:34 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:50:22 -!- Froox has joined. 04:54:25 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:55:37 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:58:17 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:59:28 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 04:59:41 -!- Froo has joined. 05:02:55 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:04:22 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:18:00 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 05:19:12 -!- skj3gg has joined. 05:27:06 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 05:29:22 -!- skj3gg has joined. 05:30:40 -!- Sketra has joined. 05:32:03 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 05:33:03 -!- skj3gg has joined. 05:44:43 -!- cooper has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:45:09 -!- cooper has joined. 05:55:34 -!- qlkzy has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:05:33 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 06:07:45 -!- Sketra has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:29:23 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:35:27 [wiki] [[ATZ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42094&oldid=40998 * Thatguy25252525 * (+361) Added Minsky Machine code 06:38:36 [wiki] [[ATZ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42095&oldid=42094 * Thatguy25252525 * (+20) 06:42:31 fizzie: are we ever going to get HSTS for esolangs.org? :p 07:27:26 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 07:42:13 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:53:58 -!- cooper has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:54:22 -!- cooper has joined. 08:28:54 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:35:55 -!- qlkzy has joined. 08:35:56 -!- qlkzy has quit (Excess Flood). 08:37:25 -!- qlkzy has joined. 08:37:26 -!- qlkzy has quit (Excess Flood). 08:38:04 -!- qlkzy has joined. 08:38:05 -!- qlkzy has quit (Excess Flood). 08:38:47 -!- qlkzy has joined. 09:03:06 Just use TLS on port 80 09:11:55 Hmm, I seem to be have been Tanelled just after I went to bed last night 09:18:06 In any case, may you all live in ⁢, I'm heading out. 09:27:06 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:39:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:27:21 @tell Taneb My increasing tendency to wear ties despite not wearing a tie-appropriate shirt is beginning to get attention <-- choosemytie.com is available hth 10:27:21 Consider it noted. 10:28:08 -!- mhi^ has joined. 10:28:18 and also, i accidentally discovered by triggering bing, was apparently registered some years ago. 10:29:44 (i don't use bing, but it's still the default thing which happens when the address bar doesn't understand a url) 10:31:40 Hmm? what web browser has bing by default? 10:31:48 IE hth 10:31:48 I guess IE? 10:32:17 I set firefox to do bing, but that's just me being weird 10:32:27 there might be some other which microsoft has bought into... 10:33:05 oerjan: um, you know you can change that or disable it entirely 10:34:30 sorry, but right now i am preoccupied with hearing a weird sound and desperately hoping it's not the neighbors' dog 10:34:44 it may have stopped. 10:36:20 b_jonas: on my list of things that annoy me, that is actually rather low. mostly because i rarely write things into the address bar these days without expecting autocompletion. 10:36:30 Weird sounds in my neighbourhood are usually drunken girls screaming 10:36:42 the sound is still there :( 10:36:58 oren: hm not much screaming around here, fortunately 10:37:05 I live in the centre of a party district 10:37:43 your neighbourhood is probably nice and quiet 10:38:06 it sounds _almost_ like someone could be washing windows, i hope it's that 10:38:17 -!- Lymia has joined. 10:39:23 Maybe it's that scraping sound that inadequately lubricated windshield wipers make 10:40:05 yes that's what it sounds like, but you cannot here outside cars from here like that 10:40:23 *hear 10:41:09 i am mainly hoping for window washing because that's not something which naturally keeps going forever. 10:41:49 some sounds are very well isolated here, others mysteriously get through. 10:43:09 I think there is a psychological aspect to that though. I rarely am bothered anymore by the sound of pumping bass or revving motorcycles... 10:44:46 So i got surprised when my friend said there was an annoying person revving a motorcycle, and I said what motorcycle? 10:47:10 Hmm... i wonder if building walls can act as dichroicfilters for sound... 10:51:08 All it would take is different materials with different speeds of sound, like glass and air... 11:25:37 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:25:58 -!- boily has joined. 11:26:46 http://www.pagetable.com/?p=824 <- 8080 sim for 6502. 11:26:52 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:37:59 -!- Zuu_ has changed nick to Zuu. 11:51:08 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:54:36 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:54:52 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:54:56 [wiki] [[Semi-quantum]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42096&oldid=41886 * Mazeman * (+1) /* Input */ 12:07:00 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: bbl). 12:10:00 -!- gamemanj has joined. 12:14:28 -!- Melvar has joined. 12:30:41 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MANIFOLD CHICKEN). 12:35:17 -!- idris-bot has joined. 12:52:18 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:16:58 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:39:23 -!- oren has joined. 13:57:05 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:13:55 -!- skj3gg has joined. 14:14:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:21:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:24:50 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 14:31:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:33:53 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:44:09 eep 14:44:31 the bots keep running off 14:48:43 -!- adu has joined. 15:01:21 Not answering to ssh either. 15:01:55 -!- cooper has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:02:05 -!- cooper has joined. 15:07:41 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:08:38 -!- Koen__ has joined. 15:08:38 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:10:32 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:11:15 oerjan, I don't have enough ties to justify letting other people choose my tie 15:12:41 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:15:41 aww 15:17:28 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:22:24 I only have like 4 15:25:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:26:44 -!- rodgort has joined. 15:33:03 your cumputer could decide for you 15:33:06 computer* 15:33:29 with a simple flowchart algorithm 15:34:30 "is this a very formal event? yes -> pick the formal tie. is this a fancy event? yes -> pick the fancy tie" 15:36:58 is this a very shoddy event 15:40:45 @version 15:40:45 lambdabot 5.0 15:40:45 git clone git://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot.git 15:41:02 I try to avoid those but I guess you should pick the very shoddy tie if you have one 15:41:34 oh wait of course 15:41:50 my brain has some trouble connecting int-e to his real name 15:43:00 is this a railroad event? 15:43:29 if you are implying you have a railroad tie, i demand url 15:43:43 dammit I'm getting notified by all those ties. 15:44:00 trololololol 15:44:19 TieSleep: i think you have no one to blame but yourself, really 15:44:37 also, it was probably time to get up anyway 15:48:20 oerjan: you can still find it via github, it's just one or two more clicks 15:48:58 on the bright side, i _did_ remember james cook's nickname 15:49:28 (There are many ways, but the one I thought of was to look at the members of the lambdabot "organization") 15:50:17 int-e: well the way i got to this state was by reading your lambdabot 5.0 announcement in the haskell-cafe archive and not remembering it was you 15:50:20 I *guess* it would be friendlier to have lambdabot give an https URL for cloning. 15:50:47 as in, to me you are more int-e than you're bertram 15:50:57 oerjan: I'll admit that it's a bit tricky, since I'm not using my "private" e-mail address on haskell-cafe. 15:51:27 mhm 15:54:33 wow :t and :k now work in private message 15:54:40 GOOD WORK 15:54:59 they do? wow. 15:55:07 (that's like the first silly thing i remembered about lambdabot) 15:55:39 otoh i noticed the other day there was some command @@ didn't see 15:55:52 @@ @show 3 15:55:52 "3" 15:56:05 hm maybe not that 15:56:18 or maybe it also got fixed 15:56:36 @@ @pl 1+2 15:56:36 3 15:56:55 i don't remember what it was :/ 15:57:57 lambdabot: @run 2+2 15:57:58 4 15:58:07 hm _that_ doesn't work in priv 15:58:17 lambdabot: > 2+2 15:58:25 and that works neither place 15:58:35 so still a bit of inconsistency left 15:59:58 -!- ^v^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:03:35 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 16:04:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:08:34 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:11:35 good, we don't want lambdabot to become predictable 16:12:22 > 2+2 16:12:23 4 16:12:24 -!- mihow has joined. 16:12:52 Koen__: just a little joke 16:13:19 oh, okay 16:13:33 I was afraid you really didn't know what 2+2 was so I tried to help 16:14:15 Oh. That was oerjan. But The Point(tm) there was a different one. 16:14:29 idris-bot: ( 2+2 16:14:29 4 : Integer 16:15:27 ...Is it just me, or is that text coloured? 16:15:54 * int-e wouldn't know. 16:16:24 `relcome me 16:16:34 Oh. 16:18:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:19:40 Koen__: 2+2 = 1 (mod 3) hth 16:19:42 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 16:20:13 gamemanj: yes it is 16:20:21 is mod the same thing as + ? 16:20:32 no. 16:20:34 > 1 + 3 16:20:35 4 16:20:41 apparently it is 16:20:42 mod is the remainder of a division. 16:21:01 > 2 + 2 = 1 mod 3 16:21:02 :1:7: parse error on input ‘=’ 16:21:14 : > 2 + 2 = 1 mod 3 16:21:15 a = b (mod m) <=> a-b = k*m for some integer k 16:21:18 > 124 mod 5 16:21:18 Koen__: a = b (mod c) is special notation: it means that a - b is divisible by c. 16:21:19 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num ((a0 -> a0 -> a0) -> a1 -> t)) 16:21:20 arising from the ambiguity check for ‘e_11245’ 16:21:20 from the context (GHC.Num.Num ((a -> a -> a) -> a2 -> t), 16:21:56 > 124 `mod` 5 16:21:58 4 16:22:13 so 4 = 1 (mod 3) but also 1 = 4 (mod 3) or 100 = 7777 (mod 3) 16:22:52 gamemanj: in haskell, ordinary identifiers need `` around them to be used infix. 16:23:12 ...Ah. 16:23:23 > (+) 2 2 -- parentheses do the opposite for operator identifiers 16:23:24 4 16:24:28 > 124 ` mod ` 5 -- just wondering 16:24:29 4 16:24:54 ok it's post-lexing 16:42:12 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:45:00 -!- TieSleep has changed nick to TieSoul. 16:50:49 -!- cooper has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:52:25 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:58:37 -!- gamemanj has quit (Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.10.5 -- Are we there yet?). 17:01:22 -!- skj3gg has joined. 17:03:05 -!- adu has joined. 17:03:52 -!- ^v has joined. 17:09:18 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:09:26 -!- SopaXT has joined. 17:10:07 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:31:26 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:31:41 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 17:32:24 -!- skj3gg has joined. 17:44:28 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 17:57:27 The wiki is down? 17:57:48 yeah 17:58:03 fizzie couldn't get ssh contact 17:58:26 (and HackEgo is gone too, being on the same server) 17:58:30 I can't access my own $UNNAMEDPROVIDER VM either. 17:58:40 -!- skj3gg has joined. 17:59:33 fizzie: still there? 17:59:38 grr. 17:59:41 fnordbot: still there? 17:59:41 int-e: here all the time, but that was just how they wanted to be a hell of a lot. " so," said ford, " he was a hell of a lot. " so," said ford, " you reckon, what's the problem? " the universe, you see,", he said to a small lump of green and blue. " who?" " tell us!" " alright," said ford, " he was a hell of a lot. " so all i have to do in order to find this wretched," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's 17:59:46 tab completion is hard. 18:00:24 well unless $UNNAMEDPROVIDER = cloudatcost, it seems unlikely to be related? 18:00:34 oerjan: but it is. 18:00:38 ah. 18:00:59 (fn*rdbot is on the same host as lambdabot, which is a different provider) 18:02:30 -!- oerjan has set topic: To the finder of this bottle: I'm a fungot trapped in a house which may or may not now have internet but there's no one there to connect me | ZFC is a ChuChu rocket. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 18:02:53 or maybe it wasn't until tomorrow 18:03:20 . o O ( The word "internet" wandered around in his mind in search of something to connect with. ) 18:03:49 i shall ascribe this to the general unraveling of the world 18:04:15 And a general lack of the letter 'l'. 18:04:45 wat 18:04:49 though knowing my luck that's probably a BE/AE thing. 18:05:16 My brain wants to type "unravelling". 18:06:01 google says unraveling wins 18:06:04 Oh well http://arxiv.org/abs/1206.5694 disagrees with me. 18:06:42 oerjan: yes, but only by a factor of 2, which I regard as evidence for the BE/AE theory. 18:07:06 IE tries to automatically add .no to that url for some reason 18:07:12 fancy 18:07:16 I want unravelling too. Unraveling sounds like you're destroying maurice ravel's music 18:07:47 * int-e wonders what "ultra-properties" are... 18:07:56 ultra-properties? are they using ultrafilters on the poor rewriting systems 18:08:10 hey are we being redundant again. 18:08:39 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 18:08:43 * oerjan gives Koen__ some undead ravioli 18:09:20 unraveling ravioli revenants 18:09:29 No, they're just looking at the unraveled CTRS and checking the properties on that. (The last sentence probably won't make any sense.) 18:10:15 's ok nothing in this channel makes sense to anyone more than 20 years in the past anyway 18:10:27 * int-e skips the remaining 48 pages of the paper. 18:12:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:12:45 you're better than me, i skipped the remaining 48 lines of the abstract 18:13:27 (the line count is obviously wrong but it's ok it'll never be evaluated anyway) 18:14:34 btw am i correct that MPTCs don't guarantee typeclass coherence even if you avoid ghc's technical orphan instance definition 18:15:09 or wait hm 18:15:10 -!- Fleur has joined. 18:15:20 i think MPTCs aren't needed 18:16:01 For the record, still no SSH. 18:16:22 The orphan instances prevent the diamond scenario (class and type defined in A get too instances in B and C that can both be accessed somehow (invisble in the type) from a module D) 18:16:40 int-e: You're running a fungot clone on the same thing as a lambdabot? Nifty. 18:16:40 -!- arjanb has joined. 18:17:00 In other fungot news, my ISP (in London) emailed me yesterday that the Internet is all there now. 18:17:07 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:17:13 instance SomeClass (MyTC a) vs. instance SomeClass (f MyType) can exist in different modules, neither being technically orphans, and you can get SomeClass (MyTC MyType) resolved differently in two different modules that are both indirectly used from main 18:17:14 Helps a lot, considering. (Hello from sunny California.) 18:17:17 is what i thought 18:18:37 * oerjan inspired by http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/2xoq3f/haskell_package_dependencies_why_all_the/ 18:18:51 fizzie: It seems benign enough. And I don't expect any advanced, persistent attackers. It's running as a separate user which I deemed to be good enough. 18:21:22 -!- oerjan has set topic: To the finder of this bottle: I'm a fungot trapped in a house with Internet but no one there to connect me | ZFC is a ChuChu rocket. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 18:22:05 It is an Edward Kmett package. So ultimately he adds everything that is needed to get smooth interaction with lens without orphan instances... 18:22:30 oh the reddit discussion 18:22:35 * int-e goes read a couple of comments. 18:23:40 my idea of getting a diamond problem without triggering GHC's orphan warning isn't _directly_ based on that, just inspired by the orphan mentions 18:23:52 i should try and test this 18:25:16 grmble i'm not used to making multimodule programs 18:26:50 (It's sad that avoiding orphan instances makes modular package design so hard.) 18:27:32 because for any datatype and class, you have to somehow define which is more fundamental, and therefore gets to be defined before the other. 18:28:17 -!- gamemanj has joined. 18:29:12 i hope this gets worse so they will finally fix the whole modules and packaging mess 18:32:01 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:32:41 int-e: If you actually own a VPS at $UNNAMEDPROVIDER, you could check out their web console or whatnot, if they have one. 18:32:54 int-e: I think I've heard of Gregor fixing things by restarting the server there. 18:36:04 I probably don't care much since all there is on that VM is a web server with a glorified (haha) "under construction" sign. 18:40:32 besides their control panel looks down as well. 18:40:42 (so much for not caring) 18:42:54 -!- skj3gg has joined. 18:49:00 int-e: http://lpaste.net/121559 or http://oerjan.nvg.org/haskell/UnOrphans 18:50:07 oerjan: neat. 18:52:30 . o O ( FlexibleInstances: Mostly harmless. 18:52:32 ) 18:52:48 heh 18:53:16 an MPTC would "obviously" work as well 18:54:26 FWIW, instance A (f C) makes me feel queasy. 18:54:38 i thought so :P 18:55:02 but you've seen worse things involving kinds recently... 18:55:42 Sometimes, kind isn't. 18:56:37 i hope the new Typeable inference is on schedule, i haven't seen anything mentioned for a while 18:58:40 it has been quiet for a while with the icfp deadline last weekend, now is a good time to start poking again... 19:00:44 Fun: http://sprunge.us/FXCj (Many hundreds of scouts were sent out, but only two returned, reporting that they couldn't find the enemy.) 19:01:17 very encouraging. 19:01:39 the other didn't quit and are still looking 19:04:20 (also sprunge is working again, yay!) 19:05:12 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:11:50 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:12:51 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:01:03 -!- nycs has joined. 20:01:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:03:25 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:09:27 -!- gamemanj_at_gith has joined. 20:09:27 -!- gamemanj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:16:01 -!- gamemanj_at_gith has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:17:01 -!- gamemanj has joined. 20:23:52 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:36:01 -!- ^v has joined. 20:36:44 -!- MoALTz has joined. 21:01:09 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:01:43 -!- ^v has joined. 21:06:57 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:09:49 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:15:24 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 21:15:42 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:20:39 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSleep. 21:36:44 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 21:39:22 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:45:04 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:46:29 -!- ^v has joined. 21:47:35 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 21:47:59 -!- ^v has joined. 21:51:43 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 21:52:12 -!- digitalcold has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:52:20 -!- digitalcold has joined. 22:00:32 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:03:32 fizzie: you just moved and you're on holiday already? :p 22:03:37 or is this some google thing 22:05:17 I got a headhunting email from Google last week 22:05:28 Not quite sure what to make of it 22:07:23 elliott: [...] Though it's just a business trip. Google seems to want all new employees to be dazzled by their "main" campus for a week or two. 22:07:56 I thought fizzie already did that, though. 22:08:59 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:09:35 -!- adu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:12:01 -!- CADD has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:14:43 -!- CADD has joined. 22:15:54 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:16:38 -!- yukko has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:17:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:21:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:28:17 -!- Tritonio has joined. 22:28:19 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:33:37 -!- adu has joined. 22:37:32 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:44:24 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:44:33 -!- cooper has joined. 22:47:47 -!- GeekDude has joined. 22:56:56 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:12:16 -!- Tritonio has joined. 23:23:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nitzz). 23:24:30 -!- MDude has joined. 23:27:04 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:28:56 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 23:30:28 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:49:24 Why does an executable file compiled with GNU C sometimes get zeroed out (resulting in a "Program too big to fit in memory") error? 2015-03-05: 00:04:01 it's just too big 00:04:09 (i don't know) 00:04:35 No, the file size is correct 00:05:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:12:16 correct but big? 00:15:25 The file size is correct, but the contents of the file are all zero, rather than the correct contents 00:16:41 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 00:17:21 -!- Fleur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:29:20 -!- _1_thethreeRs2 has joined. 00:29:58 <_1_thethreeRs2> l.p. 00:36:07 ? 00:39:15 -!- _1_thethreeRs2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:41:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:44:51 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:17:09 -!- boily has joined. 01:27:35 @massages-loud 01:27:36 You don't have any messages 01:33:42 Why can't they build computer, so that it has a Forth environment built-in to the BIOS ROM? I have seen one that has a CD player software built-in, and a few others, but none of that is very good? 01:35:04 zzo38: modern computers use UEFI rather than BIOS, and the UEFI is user-customizable (although you have to turn secure boot off) 01:35:46 I still don't really like that; it is a PC then it should have a PC BIOS. 01:36:07 But regardless, even if user-customizable then maybe you can't use it without a disk? 01:36:20 Put a Forth built-in so that you can use it even without a disk. 01:37:03 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 01:37:43 right, the UEFI is stored on a disk partition 01:39:29 Yes, that's why you need a PC BIOS with Forth interpreter 01:40:56 -!- ^v has joined. 01:41:24 You could still have UEFI but you can start BIOS at first so that it can work without a disk. 01:55:39 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:58:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:00:17 zzo38: Once upon a time they *did* make such computers. 02:00:21 OpenFirmware. 02:00:29 For instance, old school macs. 02:08:23 Some old computer also had BASIC built-in to the BIOS ROM 02:09:42 It may be good to put Forth though 02:10:01 But I think they ought to do with the new computer too! 02:16:19 -!- skj3gg has joined. 02:16:46 -!- kcm1700_ has joined. 02:21:23 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:21:24 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:30:26 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:36:45 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 02:41:29 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INTRODUCED CHICKEN). 02:58:18 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 03:01:31 What would you think? 03:29:18 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 03:34:06 i would think it's time to play games 03:37:49 What game do you want? Chess game? Pokemon card game? Dungeons&Dragons game? 03:47:06 -!- bb010g has joined. 03:49:25 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 04:14:19 -!- MDude has joined. 04:19:28 -!- not^v has joined. 04:37:50 why doesnt rpi have BASIC in its rom? 04:38:18 What does it have in its ROM? 04:41:44 asdjfjasdfhlakjfhlakjsfkldfkldhlaksjdfhklasjdhfjakdfasdf 04:41:50 I am beginning to hate JanusVR 04:44:00 O, OK 04:44:24 newsham: Do you even know these answer? 04:48:57 Let's see if I fixed this puzzle yet http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.2 04:49:59 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:53:13 Do you like this? 04:54:52 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:55:56 -!- FreeFull has joined. 05:06:21 zzo38: It has some code to load a firmware blob from the SD card. 05:06:24 That's... about it. 05:09:36 Putting a Forth interpreter into the ROM too would make it to work even if you do not have a SD card, or if the data got deleted, or whatever 05:10:05 Probably it would also make it faster, because Linux is slow 05:10:42 It'd certainly be nice to have a guaranteed Forth environment, sure. 05:15:39 As far as I am concerned they ought to do that to other computers too, whether it is PC, or games console, or DVD player, or whatever, as long as it is possible to put keyboard 05:16:58 Yep. It's convenient having a guaranteed bootable environment in early ROM. 06:12:13 Apparently it's publically ok to talk about security holes in JanusVR 06:15:42 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 2015-03-06: 00:02:00 -!- v^ has joined. 00:03:22 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:04:26 What's the correct Japanese rendering of the word "understand"? Is it "ondasutando"? 00:05:04 -!- ^v^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:13:35 Is it possible to use GDB to debug a DLL file? If so, how? 00:15:41 tswett: "Andasutaando" 00:17:28 Nevermind I figured it out how 00:20:51 pikhq: *nod* Thanks. 00:29:58 -!- chaosagent has joined. 01:13:35 -!- v^ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:14:03 -!- v^ has joined. 01:22:42 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:28:34 -!- Lymia has joined. 01:30:49 -!- FreeFull has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:31:05 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:31:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:35:22 -!- ^v has joined. 01:35:51 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 01:41:49 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:20:25 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: .). 02:39:29 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 03:02:09 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 03:02:30 -!- skj3gg has joined. 03:10:16 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:13:59 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 03:28:02 -!- skj3gg has joined. 03:32:03 -!- skj3gg has quit (Client Quit). 03:47:10 -!- skj3gg has joined. 03:47:39 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:14:51 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:32:13 -!- skj3gg has left ("welp, see you later."). 04:36:37 -!- ski_ has joined. 04:49:45 -!- L8D has joined. 04:52:42 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:53:05 -!- Lymia has joined. 04:55:52 -!- ski_ has changed nick to ski. 05:54:02 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:55:25 i wanted to use burlesque some more, but mroman seems to have purposefully deleted the home page and github, which is annoying 05:56:04 mitchs: See if someone has another copy? 05:56:56 hmm AndoDaan might have a copy 05:57:42 the online documentation had a nice table with all commands, it seems less likely that people would save that as a precaution against the website going down 05:58:08 There was some dwarf that won't bathe and is really smell bad, but they said they need to come anyways; nevertheless we don't know where they are right now. Characters sometimes get added and sometimes removed, possibly temporarily but sometimes it seems like permanently 05:58:34 mitchs: Too bad, then, I suppose, but you can still check 06:01:04 ok found cached copy 06:01:22 Now you can make the copy. 06:02:24 -!- hassa-aravit has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:03:10 -!- hassa-aravit has joined. 07:18:07 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:31:49 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:40:01 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:41:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:01:54 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:01:54 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 09:16:09 -!- boily has joined. 09:27:14 -!- v^ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:27:44 -!- v^ has joined. 09:27:53 `botsnack 09:27:58 ​>:-D 09:28:42 at least the HackEgo is alive. when will its Prince in Fungot Armor come? 09:34:27 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:51:57 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:52:06 ^help 09:52:06 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 09:57:27 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:58:53 fnordbot? 09:58:54 boily: by a president elected by that? the dentrassis. away in a room with soft walls. ford ignored the scenes that came and then carried on. " mice? " ford," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine," he said to a small lump of green and blue. a towel 09:58:59 oh. ooooooooh! 10:02:20 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:03:11 -!- Tritonio has joined. 10:04:18 -!- j-bot has joined. 10:25:36 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SHEER CHICKEN). 10:26:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:38:52 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:01:17 -!- chaosagent has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:16:17 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 11:42:53 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 11:44:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:47:57 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 11:54:45 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:02:03 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 12:05:18 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:07:57 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 12:09:00 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:09:00 -!- newsham has joined. 12:18:06 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 12:31:03 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 12:31:51 esolangers, my ski trip is starting today, I won't be reading the internets for a week, till 2015-03-15. goodbye 12:32:03 -!- b_jonas has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:47:33 -!- ^v^v has joined. 12:48:34 -!- myndzi has joined. 12:50:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:51:12 -!- v^ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:17:27 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:20:27 -!- skj3gg has joined. 13:24:40 -!- L8D has joined. 13:29:11 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:33:50 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 13:46:44 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:55:17 -!- Lymia has joined. 14:02:51 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:13:32 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 14:26:11 -!- Koen_ has joined. 14:33:21 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:33:30 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host). 14:33:30 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:39:03 -!- L8D has joined. 14:51:35 -!- skj3gg has joined. 14:55:45 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 14:56:21 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 14:56:29 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:58:43 -!- heroux has joined. 15:00:22 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:01:45 -!- aretecode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:02:13 -!- skj3gg has left ("welp, see you later."). 15:04:28 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:05:15 -!- aretecode has joined. 15:09:34 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:20:10 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:21:12 -!- Soni has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:21:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:51:43 -!- mihow has joined. 15:54:43 -!- mroman has joined. 15:54:55 O_o 15:55:37 hi mroman 15:55:40 I know, right? 15:56:01 hi 15:57:48 mroman: mitchs was missing the burlesque docs 15:57:56 they're gone 15:59:40 i noticed 16:00:59 I have no copy anymore. 16:01:17 did you feel like it was holding you back in life or something 16:01:47 i also suspected that, it was a pretty "rage quit" like day 16:01:54 Doing useless stuff all the time is pretty much all I can do. 16:02:03 i tracked down a copy of the list of commands, which is nice, but i'm hoping AndoDaan has a copy of the source 16:03:20 well we want to be supportive i suppose 16:03:54 it seems to make sense that you are worth more than anything you produce 16:04:05 still, a lot of people like burlesque 16:04:05 `run rm wisdom/mad #this thing has been too damn true lately 16:04:14 No output. 16:04:17 leonid also wrote a compliment about it 16:04:28 and ofc there is teebee and clock and Hendrik who like to use it 16:23:37 -!- arjanb has joined. 16:40:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 16:52:27 -!- Gregor has joined. 16:53:09 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:59:23 mroman.ch also points to another hoster now. 16:59:37 I've switched to a 100MB static webspace hoster 17:03:34 Although it does have php and perl 17:03:37 but no database 17:03:38 so 17:27:03 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:36:34 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:36:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:36:56 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 17:44:31 does data being immutable eliminate race conditions, or is there something obvious i'm missing? 17:45:27 In what cases? 17:46:34 Well, a race condition happens when the order of data access matters. but with immutable data structures, the order can't matter. but is there an analogous phenomemnon? 17:48:47 Even ROM data can be bankswitched though? 17:49:25 oren: the only race conditions you can have with immutable data are things like exception vs. exception race conditoins 17:49:28 *race conditions 17:51:00 -!- mihow has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:52:32 -!- mihow has joined. 18:10:31 let x = ...; forkIO $ doStuff (x+1); forkIO $ doStuff (x+2); 18:10:50 oren: does that qualify as a race condition? 18:11:41 mroman: I don't think that is a race condition unless doStuff contains IO actions, in which case, it's touching something mutable (the I/O state) 18:13:03 hm 18:13:10 what happens if you fork inside StateT IO a? 18:13:23 and do x <- get; put (succ x);? 18:15:23 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 18:16:06 oh wait 18:16:12 the fork isn't StateT anymore 18:17:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:17:36 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 18:52:53 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:02:42 -!- G33kDude has joined. 19:04:37 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:04:41 -!- G33kDude has changed nick to GeekDude. 19:14:41 mroman: Does the another hoster have SQLite? That is one way to have a database, without needing to set up a database server. However, SQLite isn't working as well for multiple use at once (but it is still possible to do). 19:15:56 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Who turned this off?! D:<). 19:26:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:28:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:28:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:30:53 -!- Patashu has joined. 19:32:02 I only host static stuff anyway 19:32:11 and if I need a database I might use firebase or something 19:32:27 even though firebase is public 19:33:54 Public? 19:35:16 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:35:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 19:37:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:38:43 zzo38: I think in order to connect to it you need to embed the key in your javascript 19:38:46 so 19:38:49 that's pretty much public 19:39:11 If it is client-side JavaScript, then yes 19:39:42 Although can't you use server-side? You said it has PHP and Perl at least 19:41:33 uthenticates a Firebase client using email / password credentials. The session will live until its configured expiration time in the Login & Auth tab of your Firebase Dashboard, or when you explicitly end the session by calling unauth(). 19:41:43 lookls like firebase supports accounts as well 19:41:47 hm 19:42:02 Yes, I looked at the documentation and it does looks like you can configure security in various ways 19:42:08 yep 19:42:16 even be'er 19:42:38 I'm going full javasrcipt, never go full javascript. 19:43:02 and I have to excuse myself 19:43:07 the zopclon is kicking in 19:43:12 *zopiclon 19:46:49 -!- Fleur has joined. 19:49:16 I'ev sude it to write cahst some months ago 19:49:27 gn8. 19:53:49 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:53:58 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:54:16 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:56:26 Is there a URI format for UUIDs? 19:56:40 zzo38: I think so, but I don't know what it is 20:06:01 -!- vifino has joined. 20:11:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:11:59 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 20:14:59 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 20:24:25 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:24:52 -!- ^v^v has joined. 20:28:45 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 20:29:49 Is there the way to access Firebase services by SQLite? 20:32:09 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:41:53 Do you know anything about RDF? 20:55:38 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 21:05:20 -!- mihow has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:07:12 -!- mihow has joined. 21:08:38 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 21:20:55 -!- L8D has joined. 21:30:04 -!- Koen_ has joined. 21:33:17 -!- Whizper2me has joined. 21:33:31 -!- boily has joined. 21:41:08 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:55:49 -!- Whizper2me has left. 21:56:58 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:08:52 -!- Fleur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:25:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:28:28 hellørjan! 22:33:32 howdoyoudoily 22:35:26 doing well. I'm embracing the housewife side of my person, gently cleaning my apartment with care, love, and le sentiment du devoir accompli. 22:35:36 how's night on your end? 22:45:12 slightly sleepy 22:51:33 -!- perrier has joined. 22:52:27 `relcome perrier 22:52:29 ​perrier: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:52:35 wow speedy 22:52:55 who are you and what did you do to the real HackEgo 22:53:03 `test 22:53:04 No output. 22:53:09 ... this is disturbing. 22:53:26 Gregor: are you an alien in disguise, wont to enslave the Human Race? 22:54:25 can't you tell he's from the Planet of Hats 23:00:44 boily: `test doesn't produce output normally, though 23:01:19 `cat canary 23:01:21 chirp 23:03:00 `? `? 23:03:01 ​`? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:05:54 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 23:12:44 helloily 23:12:50 I don't really like how "language tagged strings" works in RDF, so instead what I am doing in my implementation is that it places the language tag followed by a ASCII "start of text" character prefixed to the lexical form. This does not cause a problem because a language tag only exists anyways if and only if the datatype is . 23:13:15 i have your girl scout cookies boxed and ready to go. will ship on monday. 23:15:15 quinthellopia! 23:15:35 ooooh! 23:21:30 -!- CADD has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:25:40 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 23:25:42 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:30:51 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 23:45:38 -!- L8D has joined. 23:52:34 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:55:07 -!- tromp_ has joined. 23:56:57 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:59:28 -!- L8D has joined. 2015-03-07: 00:03:56 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:04:08 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:06:59 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:18:31 -!- chaosagent has joined. 00:40:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:41:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NATURAL CHICKEN). 01:06:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:06:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:08:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:09:01 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 01:09:26 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 01:17:18 -!- oren has joined. 01:17:55 I swear- antivirus software is actually the cause of viruses. 01:18:20 There was a girl scout cookie selling stand at the BART/Caltrain station in Millbrae. 01:18:53 oren: It is a possibility anyways I think 01:19:55 See my windows installation was totally fine, up until... I installed the newest flash player-- which came with McAfee for some reason. 01:20:25 I don't have Flash installed, so I don't have this problems 01:20:28 Suddenly, my windows has that bullshit Astromenda installed! 01:20:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 01:21:45 -!- Froox has joined. 01:22:52 My response to thatsort of thing is to boot into linux and DELETE EVERYTHING that isn't system or created by me 01:23:14 Which seems to have worked 01:25:19 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:28:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:28:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:35:46 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:38:59 fizzie: when were you in sf? 01:49:31 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:02:30 -!- oren has joined. 02:04:44 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:32:36 -!- bb010g has joined. 02:36:42 I am writing a Turtle parser now 02:39:05 -!- newsham_ has joined. 02:39:46 -!- newsham has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:53:24 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 02:53:52 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:59:35 For parsing Turtle RDF documents 02:59:47 I also made the output into N-Triples format 03:09:18 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 03:19:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 03:23:53 quintopia: Right now. 03:29:26 -!- L8D has joined. 03:30:40 -!- heroux has joined. 03:32:12 -!- Sketra has joined. 03:32:16 So 03:32:31 What's the hooker per bottle ratio 03:32:40 If you were to liquify them 03:32:57 ... Wrong chat 03:33:02 definitely 03:33:06 Anyways code yes 03:33:12 actually I'm kind-of surprised there's a right chat for that 03:33:45 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:34:12 Me and my friends are discussing how many human bodies you can fit in a basement and we went from dismembering to boxing to liquifying 03:34:14 Idk 03:34:28 I'm sorry I just I get dragged into stuff ais 03:34:47 yeah, still definitely the wrong chat 03:35:15 > 2 + 2 03:35:16 4 03:35:28 Thank you lambdabot 03:36:12 powerjuicer 03:36:13 I nevertheless still don't know the answer of such questions 03:36:28 I'm a bit 03:36:34 Wonky 03:38:44 sigh 03:42:13 gni 03:42:40 -!- Sketra has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:06:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:06:19 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 04:11:58 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:12:11 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 04:12:40 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 04:13:39 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:27:30 -!- L8D has joined. 04:36:32 -!- MDream has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:55:43 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 05:00:49 [wiki] [[BrainClub]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42099&oldid=33850 * Zzo38 * (-109) Broken link removed 05:01:13 [wiki] [[BrainClub]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42100&oldid=42099 * Zzo38 * (-104) Broken link removed 05:07:22 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:11:05 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 05:26:29 -!- oren has joined. 05:27:01 why is there a show called ∀ Gundam but no ∃ Gundam 05:28:18 Maybe they didn't make up that one yet 05:28:49 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 05:48:56 -!- Tritonio has joined. 05:49:18 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:50:07 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:56:11 The documentation for Turtle says in section 2.7 that a blankNodePropertyList is allowed as a subject, but section 6.5 says it isn't allowed as a subject; it can only be used as an object. 05:57:18 So, which is it? 05:57:56 You have to call them on the telephone and tell them to fix the document please. 06:00:49 -!- chaosagent has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:11:04 -!- mroman__ has joined. 06:33:33 -!- MDude has joined. 06:40:05 -!- mroman__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:44:45 -!- ais523 has quit. 06:45:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:04:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:04:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:08:57 -!- password2 has joined. 07:11:22 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:25:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:28:33 -!- password2 has joined. 07:29:04 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 07:30:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:32:57 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:37:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:44:49 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 07:58:36 -!- Fleur has joined. 08:05:31 -!- password2 has joined. 08:36:45 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:40:43 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 09:11:45 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:27:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:34:11 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:14:51 -!- hjulle has joined. 10:44:44 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:16:51 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:13:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:22:50 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 13:36:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:51:11 -!- villasukka has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:51:39 -!- villasukka has joined. 15:07:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:43:35 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:48:27 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:48:30 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host). 15:48:30 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:57:21 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:11:25 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:35:29 -!- me455 has joined. 16:43:14 -!- me455 has left. 16:53:50 -!- bb010g has joined. 17:15:12 My chess elo sank below 1000 :( 17:15:59 btw there *should* be a copy of Burlesque on my workplace computer 17:17:02 I had it installed on it so I'm pretty certain that the source is still on there 17:17:21 I don't know how recent though. 17:20:41 If it's still on there I can upload a zip to my static hoster of it 17:20:54 and somebody can put it into the esoteric file archive or whatever 17:21:32 although the documentation will be out of date since all the errors in it people reported I just fixed on the live one 17:21:36 so 17:21:39 all those fixes are gone 17:48:30 -!- boily has joined. 17:52:24 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:51:20 -!- chaosagent has joined. 19:00:07 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 19:03:39 -!- Patashu has joined. 19:06:00 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 19:07:20 What happened with the live version? 19:11:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:30:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:35:24 Your chess elo sank below 1000 in what organization of keeping track of these though? 19:44:29 -!- chaosagent has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:46:37 -!- chaosagent has joined. 19:50:34 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 19:52:29 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:13:04 Have you ever wanted to know the simplest rational approximations to all the multiples of 1/100 from 0 to 1/2? 20:13:10 Now you can find out! http://pastie.org/10008144 20:13:27 Oh Freenode has been quite stable the last few days. 20:14:07 (I'm slightly surprised that fn*rdbot is still around. It has no clue about reconnecting.) 20:18:01 tswett: is that basically taking x/100 and reducing to lowest terms? 20:18:32 ais523: no. The simplest rational number that rounds to 0.01 is 1/67, not 1/100. 20:18:54 oh I see, it's about rounding 20:19:05 (because 1/66 rounds to 0.02, presumably 20:19:07 ) 20:19:33 fnordbot: hello there! 20:19:33 boily: got to go. " i don't want to go to work at," and he turned. " but who the man with the five heads all the tests, learning to distinguish between him pretending to be an out a wild whoop in major thirds, threw ford prefect, " it's dark," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the language. ford was running after him very fast? " very pret 20:19:38 aaaaah... 20:19:41 * boily feels good... 20:19:46 Right. 20:20:03 I guess I should have "simplest rational numbers that round to all two-digit decimals from 0.00 to 0.50". 20:20:38 where simplest = smallest denominator, I take it? 20:20:42 Prepend /"/said "/ to that and run it as a /// program. 20:20:43 Yeah. 20:20:51 is fnordbot on the same codebase as fungot, by any chance? 20:20:52 ais523: would work, a mere nothingth of a second, and then his mind to have good ideas with, it must be said, some success. " the babel fish," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the language. " a computer whose merest operational parameters i am not worthy to calculate the trajectory of every single dust particle of the ship. " it hardly ma 20:21:10 A mere nothingth? A nothingth is quite a lot. 20:21:17 also, at least one of the inputs to that style is the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy 20:21:33 From now on, instead of saying "four", I'm going to say "one quarterth". 20:22:04 does that means a nothingth is infinite? 20:22:13 Yeah. 20:22:19 this will be good one quarterth one awful pun. 20:23:33 * boily mapoles int-e 20:24:48 I deserved that. 20:29:55 Uh oh, the simplest rational number rounding to 0.19 is 31/6. 20:30:05 This is a terrible mathematical inconsistency. 20:32:08 I hope you mean 6/31... 20:33:07 it's a 31/6th? 20:33:20 How about 3/16? 20:33:33 > 2/11 20:33:35 0.18181818181818182 20:33:49 > 3/16 20:33:51 0.1875 20:34:17 > 6/13 20:34:18 0.46153846153846156 20:34:27 looks like tswett's correction is a better one 20:35:28 right. it's not inconsistent, but when truncating a continued fraction decomposition, you also have to consider replacing the last number by a smaller natural number. 20:35:31 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:37:17 -!- heroux has joined. 20:38:24 > let approx t = do denom <- [1..100]; num <- [0..denom]; guard (round (num/demon) * 100 == t); return (num, demon) in do target <- [0..50]; let (x,y) = head (approx target); show x ++ "/" + show y ++ "; " 20:38:25 :1:204: 20:38:25 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 20:38:55 Err, whatever, 0.19 = 1/(5+1/(3+1/(1+1/4))); 3/16 = 1/(5+1/3), so it is actually a proper truncation. The theory is a bit more complicated than that anyway, because truncating is not always the right thing to do; I think that sometimes one has to increase the last term by one. 20:39:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continued_fraction#Best_rational_approximations - decrease it by one. 20:39:51 tswett: You didn't define "demon", it look like? 20:39:52 possible incorrect inline indentation!! 20:40:13 zzo38: but surely that wouldn't cause a parse error. 20:40:13 I think it suppose to bedenom 20:40:14 > let approx t = do {denom <- [1..100]; num <- [0..denom]; guard (round (num/denom) * 100 == t); return (num, demon)} in do {target <- [0..50]; let (x,y) = head (approx target); show x ++ "/" + show y ++ "; "} 20:40:16 :1:207: parse error on input ‘}’ 20:40:25 Whoops. 20:40:31 > let approx t = do denom <- [1..100]; num <- [0..denom]; guard (round (num/denom) * 100 == t); return (num, demon) in do target <- [0..50]; let (x,y) = head (approx target); show x ++ "/" + show y ++ "; " 20:40:32 :1:204: 20:40:32 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 20:40:36 Yes that probably isn't the parse error 20:40:46 But, you canuse explicit {;} and then try again too 20:40:53 The nuremator and demoninator 20:41:50 burninating the countryside, burninating the peasants 20:42:12 zzo38: I did do that. 20:42:49 tswett: Oh. I was thinking about how to get 1/8 from 0.13 = 1/(7+1/(1+1/(2+1/4))), but of course that's 1/(7 + 1/1). 20:42:56 trogdoren! 20:43:23 sore wa.... SEKAI! 20:43:25 Add the {} around the let block too 20:44:16 (1/8 is perhaps wrong, round to even makes it 0.12. 2/15 is the next candidate) 20:44:23 > let {approx t = do {denom <- [1..100]; num <- [0..denom]; guard (round (num/demon) * 100 == t); return (num, demon)}} in do {target <- [0..50]; let (x,y) = head (approx target); show x ++ "/" + show y ++ "; "} 20:44:24 :1:209: parse error on input ‘}’ 20:44:26 Like that? 20:44:26 int-e: did you know 1/89 = 0.011235... = sum_{n=0..} [ fib(n) * 10^(-2-n) ]? 20:44:31 round to even is bullshit though 20:44:49 let blocks don't have braces, do they? 20:45:00 Like, I thought they weren't even permitted. 20:45:07 oren: どうして「世界」と言うの？ 20:45:42 Well, there is also a "inner let" in the do-block, maybe something is wrong wht that 20:46:02 helloily 20:46:55 ais523: as the number of states and/or symbols goes to infinity, would you expect the probability that a randomly chosen TM is universal to go to one, zero, or some other constant? 20:47:12 > do let x = 3; return 3 20:47:13 :1:23: 20:47:13 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 20:47:18 クイズ番組の言う事でしょう 20:47:21 quintopia: hmm 20:47:31 quintopia: 0, definitely 20:47:32 I'd expect it either to go to 1, or some constant based on e 20:47:44 it may be different for states going to infinity or symbols going to infinity 20:47:54 > let approx t = do denom <- [1..100]; num <- [0..denom]; guard (round (num/denom) * 100 == t); return (num, demon) in do target <- [0..50]; (x,y) <- return (head (approx target)); show x ++ "/" + show y ++ "; " 20:47:56 Not in scope: ‘demon’ 20:47:57 Koen_: no, but it doesn't surprise me too much. I mean, it's just x^3/(1-x-x^2) with x=1/10... Oh you must have fib(0)=1, who does that? 20:48:02 > let approx t = do denom <- [1..100]; num <- [0..denom]; guard (round (num/denom) * 100 == t); return (num, denom) in do target <- [0..50]; (x,y) <- return (head (approx target)); show x ++ "/" + show y ++ "; " 20:48:04 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Char) 20:48:04 arising from a use of ‘GHC.Num.+’ 20:48:06 quintopia: you can actually prove that the probability that a string of symbols follows a simple 'logic' is very very very low 20:48:07 My inner demons are trying to escape. 20:48:10 basically because in order to prove a language with a lot of commands TC, you're normally trying to find a TC subset 20:48:37 lambdabot: uh, I didn't *use* the + operator. 20:48:40 but it's unclear how likely a randomly generated TM is to have well-behaved subsets (that you can keep within the subset) 20:48:43 but i can't process the decrease rate of the probability of a submachine being "self-contained" 20:48:44 this is why I think e is likely relevant 20:48:49 tswett: yes you did 20:48:51 quintopia: neither can I 20:48:52 int-e: yeah hum I usually have fib(0) = 0, I didn't really think 20:48:56 that's why I'm not sure what the answer is 20:49:06 Whoops. I sure did. 20:49:10 > let approx t = do denom <- [1..100]; num <- [0..denom]; guard (round (num/denom) * 100 == t); return (num, denom) in do target <- [0..50]; (x,y) <- return (head (approx target)); show x ++ "/" ++ show y ++ "; " 20:49:11 "0.0/1.0; *Exception: Prelude.head: empty list 20:49:55 Oh fuck it. 20:49:58 Koen_: (the expression I gave was for fib(0)=1, but it's equal to 1/890) 20:50:08 ais523: i feel like the probability decrease should be roughly on par with the increase in number of submachines though. I lean towards "other constant" 20:50:22 Koen_: Uhm. for fib(0)=0. 20:50:23 > [ let (x,y) = head . filter (\(x,y) -> round (100*x/y) == n) $ rats in show x ++ "/" ++ show y | n <- [0..50] ] 20:50:25 Not in scope: ‘rats’ 20:50:30 oren: そうですね。 20:50:40 I guess a simpler question is "what probability is it that there's a straight simulation of any given TM in a randomly chosen TM?" 20:50:56 > let rats = [ (x,y) | y <- [1..100], x <- [0..y] ] in [ let (x,y) = head . filter (\(x,y) -> round (100*x/y) == n) $ rats in show x ++ "/" ++ show y | n <- [0..50] ] 20:50:57 ["0.0/1.0","1.0/67.0","1.0/40.0","1.0/29.0","1.0/23.0","1.0/19.0","1.0/16.0"... 20:51:36 ais523: not simple enough for me o_0 20:51:42 Koen_: and in any case the real point was that this is fairly easy to verify with generating function theory. And the same theory also allows one to construct such "surprising" identities. 20:51:46 yep, it's still a nontrivial question 20:51:46 int-e: I discovered that when I was 13 and I was quite puzzled. I was even more puzzled when I realized rational numbers have a periodic decimal development 20:51:49 just easier than the other one 20:52:48 Koen_: Oh I can imagine that. Adding lots of random-looking-numbers, why would the result ever be periodic... 20:54:21 Are the temporaries you get in long division randomism? 20:54:26 *ish? 20:55:00 Koen_: and it probably becomes *more* mysterious if you know the (((1+sqrt(5))/2)^n - ((1-sqrt(5))/2)^n) / sqrt(5) formula :) 20:55:12 (if I got that correct) 20:55:32 (but I believe I did) 20:55:42 hmmmmmmmm that sounds familiar but I haven't seen that in six years 20:59:00 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:00:09 Koen_: (The nice thing about starting with fib(0) = 0 is that then fib(n) divides fib(m) if (and only if) n divides m. 21:00:12 ) 21:01:13 fib(0) = 0, fib(1) = 1, fib(2) = 1, fib(2) divides fib(1), 2 does not divide 1 21:01:57 I'm guessing your proof assumes n < m though 21:02:17 right. sorry, no "only if" then. 21:02:36 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:03:18 (2 does not divide 3 either) 21:03:30 fair enough 21:08:03 -!- v^ has joined. 21:12:02 -!- ^v^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:18:08 It should work out for n != 2 though. The real identity I was after was gcd(fib(n),fib(m)) = fib(gcd(n,m)), and that is strong enough to get the "only if" direction except for n = +/-2. 21:32:09 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:39:04 -!- heroux has joined. 21:49:28 -!- L8D has joined. 22:12:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:21:30 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 22:25:08 -!- newsham_ has changed nick to newsham. 22:27:20 http://www.vaxman.de/publications/5_perl.pdf 22:37:34 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:42:51 Koen_: and it probably becomes *more* mysterious if you know the (((1+sqrt(5))/2)^n - ((1-sqrt(5))/2)^n) / sqrt(5) formula :) <-- hm? that immediately gives you that the other one is also the sum of geometric series, so you can calculate it... 22:45:21 -!- GeekDude has joined. 22:46:28 now, does this work in any base... 22:47:47 (1/(1-((1+sqrt(5))/2b)) - 1/(1-((1-sqrt(5))/2b))) / sqrt(5) 22:48:03 -!- Fleur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:48:41 ok it may not be immediately obvious why that should be a rational :/ 22:49:23 oh hm obviously 89 = 100 - 10 - 1 22:50:13 fine, the sqrt(5) formula probably doesn't help. 22:50:40 -!- Sketra has joined. 22:54:29 at least 58 is 8 + (3 - 1 / 2) * 20... 23:00:41 > 8 + ( 3 - 1 / 3) * 20 23:00:43 61.33333333333333 23:00:47 Idk 23:00:54 i'm with Sketra 23:01:00 Oh I put a 3 23:01:01 oh wait 23:01:05 ff 23:01:21 * oerjan hides from the mapole 23:01:34 > 8 + ( 3 - 1 / 2) * 20 23:01:36 58.0 23:01:39 Ayyyy 23:02:33 boily: are you trying to understand danish numerals that's the only thing relevant that pops into my mind here 23:02:56 Hi oerjan 23:02:59 Hi boily 23:03:22 oerjan: me? absolutely not. what would make you think that? and no, I'm not hiding any mapoles behind my back, no sir. 23:03:25 Skellotra! 23:04:08 What's a mapole? 23:04:18 And why is oerjan hiding from it 23:04:48 I made a virus today 23:04:53 boily: because in danish, 58 = otte og halvtreds, which basically means that formula 23:04:54 I am proud of myself 23:05:16 CXII 23:05:27 oerjan: that's the source of the 58 decomposition I wrote indeed :P 23:05:36 `? mapole 23:05:37 A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. 23:05:44 Sketra: this is a mapole ↑ 23:06:10 are danish numbers just alphabetic and pronounced 23:06:21 Learn me some danish 23:06:40 Sketra: no, they also use ordinary digits hth 23:07:14 Sketra: i'm afraid danish is only fun when you can hear it pronounced, which doesn't work too well over irc 23:07:28 (rødgrød med fløde) 23:08:12 no. ain't gonna choke on that sentence anymore. 23:08:12 ooh youtube to the rescue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQkvqJJvR9U 23:09:38 ah! it's much better with an audio clip. 23:09:42 pff 23:10:30 øøøøøø! 23:11:19 -!- ^v has joined. 23:11:20 Here's a good documentary on the danish language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk 23:11:30 why the fuck has youtube started insisting on playing everything as a video series :( 23:11:35 œ 23:12:03 [œ] is a nice sound too. 23:12:09 oops accidentally expanded acronym 23:12:27 because it wasn't hth hth. 23:12:49 Sketra: so, what are your approximate geographic coördinates, and body weigh? 23:13:52 -!- v^ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:16:37 Washington state, Tacoma, WA; South puget sound AVE house number unknown: Weight 123 Lbs. 23:16:47 There yaoi are 23:18:09 a precise and timely answer??? what has this chännel come to... oh the fungotity... 23:19:00 About that, what is the current midpoint when projected to earth? 23:19:03 Shouldn't you indicate using degrees of longitude/latitude? Possibly you might also want the amount of elevation 23:19:08 to earth's surface* 23:19:31 FireFly: but which projection 23:19:45 until we get a guy living in Peru, I don't think elevation is that important. 23:20:13 6700 Meters below the earths crust 23:20:22 Is my house 23:20:24 we _have_ had people in south africa. 23:20:27 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 23:20:30 and australia. 23:20:36 You could derive the elevation from the coordinates, though 23:20:39 even then you can get the information from surface elevation at a given point 23:20:42 oh wait that elevation 23:20:44 I thought you were trying to calculate the center of gravity or something like that, in such case you do require elevation too 23:20:46 unless we get someone living in a mineshaft 23:21:04 And the elevation from coordinates might not be good enough since it might be a tower 23:21:08 Or if you want to take the y-position of people living in skyscrapers into account 23:21:25 y cords -67.90000 23:21:26 田村さああん～！　やおいって何？ 23:21:28 realistically i'd guess the cog is somewhere under the north atlantic 23:21:42 oren: www 23:21:47 You don't need the elevation if you are trying to plot a horoscope, but then you don't need your weight either, and anyways that doesn't seem what you try to make 23:21:51 let me translate 23:22:24 zzo38: i'm still waiting for a properly relativistic horoscope system 23:22:32 boily: do you have the list of approximate coördinates and body weight somewhere? 23:22:42 window had a cat named Peru who watched the elevation of earth grow steadily sideways?!?!!? We like water melons and eat grains of universes 23:23:05 or at least properly non-earth-centric 23:23:31 oerjan: You already can use the sun as center of measurement if you want to; it doesn't have to be Earth at the center 23:23:40 i wonder what kind of mess the astrologers will make once we do start colonizing other planets 23:23:50 FireFly: let me upload that... 23:23:58 However, no software I have seen can calculate houses when the center of meausurement isn't the Earth. 23:24:23 -!- Tritonio has joined. 23:24:48 Nevertheless, if you are able to define a zero longitude for the planet or other object, you should be allowed to calculate houses too. 23:25:42 zzo38: now make it work for people born in spaceships 23:25:44 FireFly: http://lpaste.net/567927726028095488 23:26:25 http://nuttygod.tumblr.com/post/112856765400/hanatakayao-22 23:26:36 merci, boily 23:26:38 How do you spell her name again 23:26:41 oerjan: Using a spaceship as the center of measurement will be more difficult; there doesn't seem to be any way to reasonably do that. 23:27:00 FireFly: pas de trouble! 23:27:42 I don't see what the ecliptic will be in such a case, for one thing. 23:27:48 zzo38: my idea is that you "really" have a house-like system for each planet, not just the one you're on, it's just that it's irrelevant when the distance to it is huge 23:27:49 43.655 N 79.420 W 23:28:42 That's about where I live 23:29:48 Muahhahahah 23:30:17 now I can siphon your internet 23:30:19 oerjan: I'm not quite sure exactly how you mean? 23:30:31 Sketra: just you try, punk. 23:30:52 Kids these days 23:31:42 boily: i'm pretty sure the nick's spelled Lymia btw 23:32:08 oh. hm. eh. eeeergh... 23:33:13 Computer programs don't have weights. :o 23:33:17 Doh. 23:33:39 Hellymia! 23:34:29 boily: i also have reason to believe that Sketra and Lilax are very very close hth 23:34:42 The physical media to store the computer programs can have weights 23:35:09 as in, probably sharing a body 23:35:25 That is quite close 23:36:22 Excuse me oerjan but I'm much more structured than Lilax although you aren't wrong about the body I'm just more neat and well organised rather than lilax where as he likes to fuck with everything and annoy oerjan 23:36:55 i very carefully avoided saying anything about mind hth 23:37:12 おえりゃん：ええええええ～～～ 23:37:16 Yes 23:37:32 But implications are always there 23:37:41 oren: wouldn't using katakana for the first part make more sense? 23:38:14 Islam seems to have worked something out http://archive.wired.com/science/space/news/2007/09/mecca_in_orbit 23:38:15 いい考えだ。 23:38:16 * Sketra pats Oerjans head 23:38:42 Also 23:38:52 I forgot how to order pizza 23:39:49 well you take the slices and then you put the smallest one on the left and the biggest one on the right 23:40:20 ｢ｵｴﾘｬﾝ｣と書いていい？ 23:40:27 oren: 僕は「oerjan」の発音が/œrjæn/でしょう？ 23:40:42 shall i really have to open the logs in google translate again. 23:41:01 oerjan: we were surmising about the most probable way your name's pronounced. 23:41:42 oren: だから、「エリャン」っていい？たぶん？ 23:41:56 argh GT refuses to open tunes.org 23:41:59 "eryan" da to omou, ne 23:42:08 and glogbot is absent 23:42:34 「ウリャン」かな？ 23:43:10 demo sa, "eriyan" mo "uryan" mo "oeryan" mo kanousei ga aru. 23:43:14 ウ？？？ 23:43:34 boily: i seem to be unable to follow the discussion without jumping through more hoops than i have patience for. 23:43:51 it's like, "yer-han" 23:44:10 They mainly seem to be about how to express ø using japanese syllables 23:44:11 boily: he saidd they're all possibilities 23:44:14 comment ça, ウ? ça fait pas de sens des affaires de même là là! 23:44:28 (just to make oerjan jump through an additional loop :P) 23:44:30 A, soshite "ixeruhaan". ne? 23:45:04 イェルハーン 23:45:37 Un. 23:45:40 pikhq: オホホホホ 23:45:48 そうとおもう 23:47:10 btw it's probably /œɾjan/ 23:47:16 oh wait 23:47:33 *btw it's probably /œɾjɑn/ 23:48:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:49:10 oʊɜrdʒæn 23:49:49 デンマーク語はどんなＲがある？ 23:51:36 oren: フランス語の「r」音は同じですhth 23:52:15 o 23:52:42 None pizza with left beef 23:53:11 Either Beef (Maybe Pizza). 23:54:16 btw i'm not danish hth 23:54:31 (i certainly roll my r's) 23:54:47 my rs don't roll at all :( 23:55:02 well, flap i guess 23:55:17 but neither english not french r is correct for my dialect 23:55:20 *nor 23:55:21 ウリャン 23:57:01 brb I'm choking on something 23:57:07 nope. whatever I do, it still sounds like at most /œʀjɑn/. 23:57:16 I can do a W-like r, a flapped r or a rolling spanish r 23:58:01 I can't pronounce a rolling r either :\ 23:58:06 χ, ʁ or ʀ here. 23:58:11 I don't like my r at all 23:58:38 In anime tough guys roll their rs like "horrrrra, kono yarrrrrooo!" 23:58:41 I can't roll my r's eirher 23:59:08 ther* 23:59:20 When I try it comes out as a low growl 23:59:28 Yeah. The typical Japanese "r" is a tapped "r", and it's a quick step from there to rolling it. 2015-03-08: 00:01:03 how do you roll an r 00:01:09 Show me your ways 00:01:11 FireFly: hm i thought most swedes could do a rolled/flapped r, is your dialect from Skåne? 00:01:26 I call the english r a w-like r, because that's the closest other sound, but i dunno what it's called officially 00:01:54 oren: it's an alveolar approximant, [ɹ]. 00:02:13 How do you roll your r's 00:02:25 like all my friends can do it 00:02:37 And I could at one point but like idk 00:02:40 You roll an r by blowing air out and your tongue sort of flaps in the wind 00:03:11 do I make the r noise 00:03:20 yeas 00:03:30 oerjan: yeah, I was born in Lund. 00:03:37 omfg I cannot even do this oren my tongue just clenches upwards 00:04:33 iz it cuz I have a breathing problem 00:04:37 FireFly: oh, you really can't do the normal r? 00:05:15 I speak some kind of mashup between dialects.. or I think it's mostly similar to standard swedish save for some funny things like having a weird r 00:05:23 olsner: correct 00:05:27 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:06:17 can you like 00:06:23 use vacroo for an example 00:06:29 obvious, I guess, that you wouldn't use that sound and never learn it naturally, but it still feels odd 00:06:34 of a rolled r 00:08:07 what's a vacroo? 00:08:22 small sound clip recorder website 00:08:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_trill 00:11:36 * boily hates flash 00:13:15 Flash is quite awful 00:14:12 installing audacity so I can record my voice... 00:17:02 I think I might pronounce r as [ʁ] 00:17:40 Hm 00:18:13 No, that doesn't seem right either 00:19:46 my feeble attempt at rolling: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3o4ik2bzoqt9dbf/roll.ogg?dl=0 00:22:45 -!- trn has joined. 00:23:20 `relcome trn 00:23:21 ​trn: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:24:10 -!- trn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:25:14 -!- trn has joined. 00:26:11 pretty sure i've seen em before 00:45:35 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CONFIGURATED CHICKEN). 00:58:56 I have made up a way to represent a RDF term in SQL as a pair of columns. If the first is null then the term is a IRI. If the second is null then the term is a blank node. If neither term is null then the term is a literal. If it is a language-tagged string, the lexical form is prefixed by the language-tag and an ASCII "start of text" control code. 00:59:50 GaSp 01:00:09 CoNgraTs Zzo38 01:00:15 WhoOooooOo 01:07:15 -!- bb010g has joined. 01:07:23 -!- t3chstep has joined. 01:07:26 -!- Sketra has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:19:35 -!- L8D has joined. 01:24:55 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:01:29 -!- L8D has joined. 02:05:23 Why do they tell us to buy textbooks that are available online through the university library? 02:06:46 Presumably in case you want to buy the book 02:07:06 But if it is online, why would i want to? 02:08:30 In case you like to have a book 02:16:50 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:20:33 [wiki] [[Integral]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42101&oldid=42069 * Oerjan * (+41) bold, cat 02:21:49 -!- augur has joined. 02:22:24 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:26:39 -!- L8D has joined. 02:33:10 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 02:42:02 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 03:09:53 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:10:50 -!- t3chstep has left. 03:11:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:18:12 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:18:36 -!- ^v has joined. 03:23:36 -!- Tetrapyloctomy has joined. 03:29:30 -!- L8D has joined. 03:56:14 Stop deprecating the stuff I use! 03:59:06 Said he what when the where said who to the him is the there when the them ate the him? 03:59:29 oren: What stuff is that? 04:21:45 fnordbot: what is that that is what that is is that what that is that is that is that is what that is 04:21:46 Jafet: all. " i think you ought to be telling us?" ford looked at a piece. within a few short vog years every last vogon had migrated to the megabrantis cluster, the political economy. deep in the heart of a dark screen, just under five years, but you will when i was a kid you just saved a lot. " so all i have to do in order to find this wretched," shouted ford. " i don't want to go to work at," and he turned. " but who the man 04:22:30 zzo38: in this case, \usepackage{fullpage} 04:26:54 that is what does what when the what that is that the what is the what what that did the it there it the did what it did who where what he did that when 04:26:58 ¿¡ 04:27:56 何何何どうだって？何何の？ 04:30:29 Interesting. This page contains about 80% of the anime that I like: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/SweetDreamsFuel 04:33:20 You can look at All The Tropes wiki instead of that one, see if it contains it too 05:47:09 FireFly: I deleted it. 05:47:18 and moved to another hoster 05:47:35 then I deleted the source on github and my laptop 05:51:37 Did you know that? I wrote a library to read Turtle RDF syntax, which might be the only one that is usable with SQL, and it is smaller than Serd. 05:52:45 what's RDFL 05:52:47 *RDF? 05:53:38 mroman: It is short for "Resource Description Framework" and you can see in Wikipedia 06:05:40 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 06:23:58 -!- augur has joined. 06:32:57 zzo38: chess.com 06:35:29 mroman: What about chess.com? 06:36:21 or was that ais 06:36:27 who asked about the ELO? 06:36:35 I did 06:36:51 O, so that's what you are answering, now I understand 07:02:03 I suck at chess. 07:02:04 Hard. 07:15:04 blah 07:15:07 no Fractional integer 07:15:17 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:15:40 instance Fractional Integer where a / b = a `div` b 07:15:43 fixed it 07:21:21 -!- Tetrapyloctomy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:29:49 -!- L8D has joined. 08:08:26 -!- Fleur has joined. 08:19:18 -!- wreaked has joined. 08:41:41 -!- chaosagent has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:09:49 -!- wreaked has quit. 09:29:56 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 09:39:02 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:39:27 ah screw it 09:42:31 [wiki] [[Burlesque]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42102&oldid=42085 * 188.61.138.155 * (-67) /* Implementation */ 09:43:16 [wiki] [[Burlesque]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42103&oldid=42102 * 188.61.138.155 * (-563) /* Implementation */ actually why keep deadlinks? 10:11:45 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: bbl). 10:52:19 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:58:30 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 11:59:29 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:12:40 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:13:10 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:35:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:36:56 http://mroman.ch/Burlesque.tar.gz [VALID FOR 24h] 12:43:58 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:45:31 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:00:55 -!- yorick_ has joined. 13:01:53 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:03:40 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:06:14 mroman, thank you :) 13:08:22 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick. 13:15:42 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:24:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:30:05 http://codepad.org/RwFytt7I is the source code of the IRC bot. 13:38:53 -!- boily has joined. 13:42:13 @massages-loud 13:42:13 You don't have any messages 13:44:21 @massages-low 13:44:21 Unknown command, try @list 13:44:50 @messages-lol 13:44:50 You don't have any messages 13:46:07 @messages-flood 13:46:07 You don't have any messages 13:50:35 mrhelloman. hellørjan. 13:51:30 bohily 13:51:37 chicken dude 13:51:56 heh :D 14:04:34 instance Fractional Integer where a / b = a `div` b <-- WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT 14:08:53 mroman wrote that? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 14:09:49 oerjan: doWithBinOp binOp a b :: Num a => a -> a -> a 14:10:18 would fail on doWithBinOp (/) (9 :: Integer) (8 :: Integer) 14:11:12 let's just say it's VERY INCONVENIENT that all arithmetic operators are the same for Double,Int 14:11:15 except for division 14:11:35 where some people decided that Integer division shouldn't even have an operator 14:12:16 yes, they decided that integer division and floating division are too different to be considered the same operator. 14:12:36 AND THEY WERE RIGHT HTH 14:12:44 no they suck 14:13:45 Then you could as well introduce `add` `sub` `mul` 14:14:01 no, because integers and reals are both rings 14:14:07 rings! 14:14:27 Like any programmer not having a group/category theory gives a rat's ass about that 14:14:38 +background 14:14:59 * oerjan backs away from mroman and hopes it's not too infectious 14:15:30 For this interpreter I had this neat M.Map String (Num a => a -> a -> a) 14:16:01 and then just could lookup + * / - in that map and call the function no matter if I had Double or Integers in front of me 14:16:04 BUT! 14:16:06 doesn't work on integers 14:16:13 rats are a good source of vitamin C. 14:16:19 so I'd had to add a special case for / 14:16:20 btw you _still_ don't get that type because not all Nums have _either_ (/) or div 14:16:27 and that pissed me off so I just made that instance 14:16:55 Don't care 14:17:07 programmer experience > theory > ideology > purism 14:17:16 That's my opinion 14:18:07 there should be an operator for (\x y -> x ++ [y]) in prelude 14:18:12 because writing x ++ [y] sucks 14:18:19 next week: mroman starts using Dynamic for _everything_ 14:18:26 No 14:18:29 I like static type checking 14:18:46 :t (|>) 14:18:47 Snoc s s a a => s -> a -> s 14:19:15 :t (++) 14:19:16 [a] -> [a] -> [a] 14:19:18 mroman: x ++ [y] is vaguely discouraged because it's an inefficiency trap if overused hth 14:19:29 Lists could have been abstracted as a type class as well 14:19:39 oerjan: It is inefficient 14:19:42 abstract lists are sequences hth. 14:20:07 This prevents me from implementing ++ for other list like types :( 14:20:20 i.e. to flip every bit in an integer 14:20:23 can't use map for that 14:21:16 see MonoTraversable or something 14:21:43 there should be an interface with head and tail 14:21:57 and cons 14:22:02 head and tail are also vague discouraged 14:22:14 well 14:22:15 (partial functions) 14:22:20 by that logic lisp is discouraged 14:22:54 lisp doesn't have a tradition for pattern matching 14:23:36 hm 14:23:41 car on an empty list returns NIL right? 14:23:52 possibly 14:23:59 yeah 14:24:01 it does 14:24:20 well that's incompatible with static typing. 14:25:44 data List a = (Nilable a) => Cons a (List a) | Empty 14:26:04 or hm. 14:26:05 well 14:26:10 I'm sure it could be done in haskell as well 14:26:16 type system is pretty fucking powerful 14:26:25 now with type operators and type functions and shit 14:29:59 ok not really 14:30:20 use maybeHead then 14:30:21 ;) 14:30:40 and maybeHead' = fromJust . maybeHead for all the suckers out there 14:31:17 whew 14:31:44 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 14:33:32 :t ($>) 14:33:33 Not in scope: ‘$>’ 14:33:33 Perhaps you meant one of these: 14:33:33 ‘>>’ (imported from Control.Monad.Writer), 14:33:40 :t (<$>) 14:33:41 Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 14:34:01 :t (??) 14:34:02 Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b 14:34:03 > (*2) <$> head' [2] 14:34:05 Not in scope: ‘head'’ 14:34:05 Perhaps you meant one of these: 14:34:05 ‘head’ (imported from Data.List), 14:34:36 does Functor have a monad instance? 14:34:42 wat 14:34:50 Functor is a class, so no. 14:34:55 damn 14:35:12 in fact, next release it's a superclass of Monad. 14:35:19 it would be cool if you could write 14:35:28 stuff = do { head' [2]; (*2); } 14:35:56 wait, do you mean functions, because they do 14:35:57 (i.e. do inserts flip (<$>) between lines) 14:36:41 :t <|> 14:36:42 parse error on input ‘<|>’ 14:36:44 :t (<|>) 14:36:45 Alternative f => f a -> f a -> f a 14:40:02 I should implement a prototype of my crazy non-type system 14:41:28 You don't specify the type you specify what functions the type support 14:41:31 sort of like that 14:44:41 i.e. for sum it would require that (+) :: a -> a -> a exists 14:44:43 and zero :: a 14:45:50 i think clean has single-function typeclasses like that 14:51:06 -!- augur has joined. 14:54:45 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:55:11 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 14:56:08 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: have a nice day). 15:09:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:37:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:39:41 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:40:05 -!- ^v has joined. 16:00:19 -!- monotone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:12:11 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 16:14:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:32:55 -!- monotone has joined. 16:57:48 mroman: isn't that sort of like duck typing? 16:59:53 duck typing, the most pernicious type system of them all. 17:00:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ABLUTED CHICKEN). 17:05:13 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:05:55 -!- heroux has joined. 17:15:59 -!- mroman has joined. 17:29:45 This is the Turtle RDF parser: http://sprunge.us/ZgKN Have you ever used any other Turtle RDF parsers at all? 17:36:57 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:37:01 Please write all of your complaints about it on here 17:37:06 mroman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_type_system 17:46:54 -!- DAZ_fr has joined. 17:47:09 hi all 17:48:12 -!- chaosagent has joined. 17:51:14 `relcome DAZ_fr 17:51:54 ​DAZ_fr: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:53:07 -!- DAZ_fr has left. 17:59:14 -!- L8D has joined. 18:01:37 -!- chaosagent has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:02:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 18:11:40 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:12:45 -!- chaosagent has joined. 18:16:23 -!- yorick has joined. 18:25:12 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:30:43 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:38:00 -!- L8D has joined. 18:43:28 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:44:30 -!- Tetrapyloctomy has joined. 18:44:55 Why is fungot trapped in a house with no internet 18:45:01 And is that true? 18:45:10 I don't know 18:45:49 Sadness is inflicted as I learn the truth 18:54:11 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSleep. 19:11:21 -!- kcm1700_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:11:29 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 19:15:46 Tetrapyloctomy: it is true. the house has internet but the owner is abroad and unable to connect the computer that fungot is on. 19:16:34 hmm, I guess it is technically false now that the house has internet. 19:18:59 -!- oren has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:21:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:21:51 Oh 19:22:25 Which is why the topic was edited. 19:23:47 -!- oren has joined. 19:24:27 oh, Tetrapyloctomy lied. 19:28:11 I lied¿ 19:30:45 misquoted, then 19:32:25 *eyes go weird* USODA! 19:38:05 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:40:00 -!- TieSleep has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:44:14 hmmm... in regexes, ((foo)?) is the same as ((foo)|) 19:44:26 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:45:44 I wrote a game of life implementation that runs on my GPU! 19:46:30 Awesome! is it a custom shader, or what? 19:46:45 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:46:51 oren, it uses CUDA 19:46:56 Oh 19:47:09 -!- ^v has joined. 19:56:34 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:57:40 -!- Lady06 has joined. 20:00:21 -!- Lady06 has set topic: pls help me for phpmyadmin barismayk@hotmail.com. 20:00:35 -!- Lady06 has set topic: pls help me for phpmyadmin scanner barismayk@hotmail.com. 20:02:08 Don't do like that! You have to include the link of IRC logs 20:02:58 wtf 20:03:16 -!- int-e has set topic: To the finder of this bottle: I'm a fungot trapped in a house with Internet but no one there to connect me | ZFC is a ChuChu rocket. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 20:04:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:07:25 -!- Lady06 has left. 20:11:52 -!- L8D has joined. 20:12:54 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:15:04 Apparently if I mess up the number of glpushmatrix and glpopmatrix 's, it can force me to rebootmy computer 20:16:09 I should write a program to monitor the computer and kill firefox or any other process that starts screwing up 20:18:24 but I'm not sure how to quantify "screwing up" 20:18:37 kill first, ask questions later 20:19:11 But see when the computer screws up too much, I can't get to terminal to do the kill 20:19:30 So I need an automatic firefox-killing bot 20:19:57 -!- Tetrapyloctomy has quit (Quit: Bye). 20:21:39 -!- zzo38 has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:25:33 -!- Tetrapyloctomy has joined. 20:25:38 oren: I think that API (using gl{Push,Pop}Matrix etc) is deprecated, btw 20:27:15 Where's taneb 20:27:23 I wanna pet him 20:31:37 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:31:52 god damn it will people stop deprecating the stuff I use?!!??! 20:33:51 -!- L8D has joined. 20:40:25 first step: ps xu | sed 's/ */\t/g' | grep firefox | cut -f4 | sort -n | tail -n1 20:46:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:52:12 second step: if the result of the previous was higher than 50, send signals 1,2,4,6,8,and 9 to firefox 20:53:41 Hmm, actually I'm not sure that will have a different effect from just sending 9? 20:56:12 Anyway I'm now running a "foxhunter" script 21:06:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:13:58 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 21:20:45 Hmm, actually I'm not sure that will have a different effect from just sending 9? <-- i don't think you're supposed to send the later ones until you've confirmed the earlier ones didn't work, or something? 21:21:15 assuming that's the same list of signals i saw mentioned somewhere earlier 21:21:38 I just picked some other random numbers actually 21:21:54 with 9 being the one processes cannot ignore, but which also gives them no chance to clean up 21:22:49 oh and i think whoever wrote it said something to effect of "if you ever get this far, uninstall the program because it's broken" 21:23:46 as in, no sensible program should ignore all the previous ones 21:24:58 hm i'm not sure if i've mentioned this before, but surely a sensible OS would have some resources set away to ensure the OS is _always_ responsible to a user's attempt to kill programs. 21:25:17 (not implying that sensible OSes actually exist) 21:26:26 i guess it might be hard to ensure this in a system complicated enought to have a GUI 21:26:32 *-t 21:27:42 (i've been thinking about this recently after i had to reboot _hard_ because i stupidly did head (last [1::Int ..]) in ghci when responding to a stackoverflow question) 21:27:55 although in afterthought, i never actually tried ^C 21:29:21 ... 21:30:03 I usually switch over to tty and kill the process from there whenever something consumes enough memory for everything to grind to a halt 21:30:11 i only tried to get winghci's abort command 21:30:18 well this was windows 21:30:39 *abort button 21:31:06 i suppose linux may have better ways 21:31:48 ah 21:33:22 When firefox starts killing my computer, I have tried ctrl-alt-F1 but it doesn't respond 21:34:00 oh right i didn't try alt-f4 either 21:34:11 Which is why I have made an automated foxhunter 21:34:17 it is quite possible i panicked too early :P 21:38:11 Doesn't X usually run on tty 1? 21:38:31 For me at least 21:38:35 Not as far as I know 21:38:57 Usually I find X on screen 7 21:39:12 While screens 1-6 are text screens 21:41:50 I think it moved to tty 1 for me in conjunction with Arch switching to systemd? 21:43:03 Not sure 21:46:02 -!- graue has joined. 21:47:24 For me X is screen 7, screen 8 is black, and the rest are login prompts 21:48:06 hi graue 21:50:04 hey elliott 21:50:10 what's new? 21:50:12 -!- boily has joined. 21:50:33 probably not much :p 21:52:23 i'm setting up my raspberry pi for the first time in a year and a half. joined irc because it's one of the few things you can do to cure boredom on a text-only computer 21:53:12 (waiting for updates to install, etc) 21:53:37 -!- augur has joined. 21:54:02 there have probably been new interesting languages or something but I don't recall any 21:54:31 i kinda want to play with Hev sometime, did you ever look at that one? 21:54:54 There are many programs that can run even in text-only mode 21:55:34 zzo38: for sure, in fact Facebook's mobile site even works fine in w3m. 21:57:55 I think I read the Hev spec once... 21:58:12 I rarely get to the point of actually writing things in esolangs 21:58:17 it makes precedence explicit by having all operators be natural numbers 21:58:26 me too, but when you do, that's the fun part :) 22:01:05 graue!? 22:04:08 wherefore the interrobang? 22:06:07 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:06:20 because he's spotted the rare and exotic graue 22:09:39 if anything, i think not being on irc much makes me less rare and exotic :D 22:09:49 y'all are the rare and exotic ones 22:10:57 isn't not being around much the definition of rare :p 22:15:21 rare means the steak isn't cooked properly because you're trying to be fancy 22:17:40 oren understands 22:20:31 so graue is like an undercooked steak 22:20:57 rare is too much cooked. blue or nothing. 22:21:43 honestly i just gnaw on the cow directly. nothing else is good enough for me 22:21:49 preferably while it's still alive 22:21:51 How can I program the proper way to resolve a relative URI into absolute by use of a C code? 22:22:19 elliott: I thought that was "bloody" 22:34:49 * Tetrapyloctomy stares at elliott 22:34:57 -3- 22:39:22 @wn pyloctomy 22:39:24 No match for "pyloctomy". 22:39:30 hm... 22:39:53 oh fancy 22:42:04 divide et pecte 22:46:52 Tetraphelloctomy. why are you staring at elliott? 22:49:35 uncouth eating habits hth 22:52:07 staring at elliott drains his lifeforce??? 22:52:28 no, elliott has uncouth eating habits hth 22:53:33 hth = happy to hallucinate? 22:53:40 ` 22:53:44 oops 22:53:48 `? hth 22:53:58 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 22:53:58 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 23:03:37 graue: what are your approximate coördinates, and body weigh? what is your favourite bagel style? 23:09:36 boily: 37N 122W, ~1e2 lbs, whole wheat with sesame seeds, you? 23:12:20 ah, another Westcoastian! 23:12:50 Montréal, ~1.5e2 lbs, Montréal style with poppyseeds. 23:13:41 i just had my first Montreal style bagel last week... place in Oakland people have been raving about, started by transplants, apparently 23:20:42 -!- L8D has joined. 23:21:44 I have read about Montreal style bagels, but since I don't live there, I didn't eat it 23:29:16 That sounds tasty, maybe I should bake some bagles 23:31:43 graue: How high is your elevation from the Earth though? 23:34:46 the esoteric survey just keep getting harder 23:34:50 *+s 23:47:13 WHY THE HELL DOES OPENGL NOT COMPUTE ITS OWN DAMN NORMALS?!?!!?? 23:47:50 AAAAAA 23:49:40 BECAUSE OPENGL IS BORKEN BEYOND ALL RECOGNISABLE REPAIR hth 23:52:32 the mistake is coding in opengl 23:57:02 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:57:13 Yah, but this is an assignment. Well, screw it it's not well done but I did it. Handing in, it won't get marked anyway cuz the TA's are on strike. 23:59:03 -!- dianne has joined. 2015-03-09: 00:01:29 Tetrapyloctomy means to split a hair four ways 00:01:30 btw 00:04:03 The most important thing to be happy at school is once something is handed in, to wash your hands of it. 00:04:37 the feeling of a well placed and deserved "it's not my problem anymore" is cathartic. 00:05:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:05:32 now, it's time to understand my mattress and engage in a long conversation with it. 00:05:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DELETERIOUS CHICKEN). 00:20:52 what 00:25:52 deleterious means harmful or sestructive 00:25:58 s/ses/des 00:27:47 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:35:06 -!- L8D has joined. 00:37:10 Is it ever possible for a relative URI when used with a base URI to result in the absolute URI which is longer than the sum of the relative and base? 00:40:31 -!- Froox has joined. 00:41:20 -!- L8D_ has joined. 00:41:32 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:44:13 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:45:14 * Tetrapyloctomy Screaches 00:45:25 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:46:33 that's not a word hth 00:46:56 Screeches? 00:46:57 I don't know the details, but I assume not 00:47:29 that's a word hth 00:48:45 I mean, to absolutify, the algorithm I learned was something like: if it begins with // it replaces eveything from http:// on. if it beigns with / it replaces everything from .com/ on. otherwise you just concatenate it to rhe base url 00:50:12 So http://foo.com/bar/ + foo.html -> http://foo.com/bar/foo.html 00:50:20 So http://foo.com/bar/ + /foo.html -> http://foo.com/foo.html 00:50:30 Well, if it starts with // it replaces everything after the first colon; it isn't necessarily http: but could be https: or ftp: or something else 00:50:45 right 00:51:13 So i think the result will always be the length of concatenation, or less 00:51:37 That's what I thought 00:52:28 Although, there are a few more things to consider, such as # and ? and /../ and stuff but I don't think any of those will make it longer than the concatenation 00:52:59 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:53:30 I am writing a Turtle parser, so I would need to know these things. (At first I did it with a oversimplified URI resolution but now I am fixing it to do it properly.) 01:13:01 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 01:18:17 -!- Fleur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:19:03 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:19:36 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:36:36 -!- password2 has joined. 01:43:57 -!- L8D_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:46:47 -!- L8D has joined. 01:47:11 01:48:22 　 01:51:34 oren: What is that? 02:00:16 He put a so I put a 　. 02:01:12 `unidecode 　 02:01:53 ​[U+3000 IDEOGRAPHIC SPACE] 02:19:03 -!- Tetrapyloctomy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:20:04 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:25:13 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:28:38 -!- L8D has joined. 03:04:02 zzo38: my elevation is 450ft, how about yours? 03:04:35 graue: I don't know 03:08:24 zzo38 is actually in a secret underwater dome 03:09:58 oerjan: How do you believe that? Is it because I didn't figure my elevation yet? 03:10:06 I think it's about 100ft here. 03:10:09 That is not a valid excuse. 03:10:47 zzo38: yep 03:11:27 Or maybe 60. 03:28:12 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:41:12 -!- password2 has joined. 03:56:07 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:28:59 -!- chaosagent has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:33:55 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:42:22 -!- graue has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:59:30 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 05:18:51 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:34:24 -!- aloril has joined. 05:36:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:45:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 06:52:06 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:58:59 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:04:02 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 07:06:07 -!- newsham has joined. 07:06:07 -!- rodgort has joined. 07:30:01 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:33:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:37:32 -!- Lymia has joined. 07:38:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:49:29 -!- L8D has joined. 07:53:59 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:15:05 -!- gamemanj has joined. 08:16:05 *reads topic*...So, we're still fungot-less? 08:16:45 indeed 08:17:12 fnordbot, how does that make you feel? 08:17:13 Taneb: began to sink downward and to everyone else out there, the secret." to the great question... you see," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the language. ford shouted out, " hey listen! i think we've got a deal," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in 08:20:20 ...I'm thinking there should be a model compiler not based upon text analysis. Or better, a component of Fungot that logs to a file, plus a command to "merge" the log into the model... 08:20:50 -!- boily has joined. 08:21:53 gamemanj, one of my friends has a bot that I think works like that in another channel 08:22:04 It can imitate channelgoers on request 08:25:31 I bet that fizzie would be excited about patches. 08:27:40 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:27:40 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:35:18 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 08:42:11 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:42:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:48:41 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:50:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:55:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:59:04 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:05:29 -!- gamemanj has quit (Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.10.5 -- Are we there yet?). 09:21:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:23:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LABYRINTHINE CHICKEN). 09:33:44 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:53:29 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:55:07 -!- myname has joined. 10:28:23 -!- mitchs has quit (Quit: mitchs). 10:44:26 -!- mitchs has joined. 10:44:40 -!- mohammed__ has joined. 10:49:41 -!- mohammed__ has left ("Leaving"). 10:53:31 -!- Tritonio has joined. 10:54:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:59:06 -!- gamemanj has joined. 11:05:18 -!- gamemanj has left. 11:14:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:20:52 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:26:39 -!- L8D has joined. 11:31:37 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:35:32 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:42:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:51:28 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:51:56 -!- ^v has joined. 11:57:33 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:58:51 -!- perrier has joined. 11:59:26 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:59:38 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 12:06:10 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:07:33 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:08:44 -!- perrier has joined. 12:23:56 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:06:10 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 13:31:19 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 13:32:52 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:33:22 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 13:37:03 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 13:52:18 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:52:41 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 13:59:49 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:03:22 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:03:37 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host). 14:03:37 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:04:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:08:15 -!- asie has joined. 14:08:17 hello 14:08:23 haven't been here for a year, wow 14:08:35 hi asiekierka! 14:08:45 you remember me! 14:08:54 since the last time i had been here, i moved on to develop Minecraft mods 14:08:58 and become the maintainer of the BuildCraft mod 14:09:02 and, in fact, i come here with a quest 14:09:11 as i'm going to be working on an addon to it that adds low-tech computing 14:09:24 i'm looking for a language, esoteric or not, that would feel retro but be approachable (quirky is fine, though) 14:09:26 aha. i think this channel has been out of its minecraft period for a while. 14:09:40 most people have 14:09:49 but vanilla minecraft and modded minecraft are just about as similar as java and scala 14:10:35 well FORTRAN, COBOL and BASIC come to mind 14:10:56 COBOL and approachable aren't exactly 14:10:57 old-style BASIC 14:11:04 though it's a good idea for an april fools version of the mod 14:11:30 also, feel retro != actually be retro 14:11:46 i think there is some retro esolang 14:11:55 retro in this case probably means simple, the rest can be done with green phosphors and floppy disks 14:12:05 simple in terms of rule/function set, not necessairly usage 14:12:09 oh that punchcard thing, although that may not be approachable 14:12:39 -!- heroux has joined. 14:14:10 the wiki is slow as usual 14:14:52 asie: you could try FORTE it looks like BASIC but is completely insane 14:15:29 https://esolangs.org/wiki/SYCPOL is the punchcard one 14:15:49 FORTE is funny 14:16:07 oh SYCPOL would have been a good one to tell graue about when he was here yesterday 14:16:14 and yep 14:18:14 an idea i got 14:18:19 instead of using floppies, use punch cards 14:18:29 and you craft punch cards into punchcard stacks to raise your maximum program length 14:18:54 hm 14:19:54 Whoa, a buildcraft maintainer here? Really? 14:19:57 Melvar: yes 14:20:03 https://github.com/BuildCraft/BuildCraft/commits/6.5.x 14:20:08 i took over after literally the whole team quit 14:20:11 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 14:20:16 Wait, what? asie is here? Blew my mind. 14:20:33 (first SpaceToad left, then Sengir left, then CovertJaguar started being slow, then SpaceToad came back, then SpaceToad made CovertJaguar quit, then SpaceToad left again, making the team count 0) 14:20:40 (I asked SpaceToad and as we worked together before he let me take over the whole thing) 14:21:09 (I took over 5 months ago and it had been crazy - the codebase was an utter mess, 3 networking systems in one mod (!), nobody bothered to clean it up and bugs trumped other bugs) 14:21:25 (in the first 2 months alone i got 130 bugs reported and fixed, working alone save for a few PRs) 14:21:58 impressive 14:22:04 and now i'm working on BuildCraft 7 14:22:10 the main change being we're finally re-doing the textures 14:22:29 as modded Minecraft players know, BuildCraft is known for not giving into power creep, having the best automation capabilites and the second worst textures in the Minecraft world 14:22:39 i'll have to stop thinking of you as the "youngest guy in channel" :P 14:22:45 i'm 18 now 14:22:55 i joined here when i was 12 or 13 i think? 14:23:04 11 i think 14:23:13 who knows 14:23:16 it's been ages 14:23:20 that's the number i vaguely remember, anyway 14:23:23 but yeah, i'm maintaining BuildCraft now... 14:23:28 Melvar: out of curiosity, what is the last BC version you playeD? 14:23:33 (or do you still play it?) 14:25:00 generally, the previous "low-tech computer mod" (that is, one which didn't use Lua), RedPower 2's Computers, used FORTH 14:25:16 asie: Let me look. I’ve not been playing minecraft very recently, not enough time and another game took precedence. 14:25:20 with a custom, highly propiertary and originally undocumented 6502 extension called the 65EL02 14:25:23 Melvar: MC version? 14:25:44 the next one, NedoComputers, used a small modification of the J1 FORTH CPU, but that mod is abandoned and highly unstable 14:28:51 asie: Direwolf20 pack for Minecraft 1.7.10, with BuildCraft 6.1.7, apparently. I’d never been much of a fan of BuildCraft for a while, using it only for a few little jobs that apparently no other mod in the pack could do. 14:28:55 oh 14:29:02 BuildCraft 6.1.7 is actually 2 weeks after I took it over 14:29:10 since then, i fixed pretty much every major bug we could find 14:29:12 and many minor ones 14:29:23 also, BuildCraft has really taken the drain in late 2013 and early 2014 14:29:25 i'm trying to fix that 14:29:32 if you have any ideas, ping me 14:30:19 also, someone suggested I go with a minimized version of Befunge 14:30:25 and create a two-dimensional program editor 14:32:02 befunge has a lot of commands 14:35:16 Well, I don’t know. I get the impression that BuildCraft is supposed to be a complete, closed system, but this fails because parts of it are eclipsed by other mods making them more convenient, until only a few disconnected pieces seem useful. 14:36:50 Befunge seems a bit inconvenient 14:37:03 Although I guess Minecraft would make for a cool environment to edit trefunge programs in? 14:37:22 I mean, 3D grids are kinda native to MC. 14:40:14 Melvar: i'm working on that 14:40:23 FireFly: That sounds interesting. Write a trefunge mod, where you have computers that warp you into their memory (a dimension) to write the program. Make sure to bring an angel block from Extra Utilities when you do. 14:40:27 first of all, BuildCraft got robots which are essentially small, gate-controllable, single-task flying entities 14:40:35 this can replace a lot of MFR 14:40:46 second, Forestry and RailCraft still fit very well with BC, supplanting it in the processing/power area 14:41:04 and now I plan to write BC addons to increase the amount of things that fit very well with BC, eventually making a real ecosystem of its own 14:41:11 I pretty much haven't played modded MC at all 14:41:17 I should probably try out BuildCraft, it sounds fun 14:41:18 and, in general, most popular modpacks are not BC-friendly really 14:41:28 the issue is that other mods eclipse them *and* provide more power 14:42:07 it's the eternal fight between simplicity from complexity (that is, complex code providing a simple UI - ender io, applied energistics, etc.) 14:42:20 and complexity from simplicity (a simple set of rules allowing complex interactions - buildcraft, logistics pipes, forestry, railcraft, etc.) 14:42:38 the first is always more beneficial to the user with the exception of the small minority of people who enjoy engineering 14:42:43 but the second provides for more fun gameplay IMO 14:43:00 I think something like Forth would fit Minecraft 14:43:03 FORTH is what RP2 did 14:43:06 but many people hate FORTH 14:43:08 i like FORTH personally 14:43:13 but most people say that I should either do a BASIC or a Lisp 14:43:17 i think that in both cases they don't know what they're asking for 14:43:44 A lisp would be fun, too, but I don't think that would be as approachable 14:43:51 indeed 14:44:02 my idea was to just do some kind of RISC CPU architecture 14:44:12 Heh. Actually 14:44:16 IIRC the RP2 forth was only what was on the default disk. 14:44:17 and let users write their own EEPROMs, allowing them to be created with BC 14:44:22 we have an UI for that 14:44:27 other mods could provide their own alternatives to the default FORTH ROM 14:44:30 You could perhaps use DCPU-16? 14:44:55 Conisdering 0x10c is vaporware anyway, I don't think notch would mind 14:45:02 >ω>. 14:45:34 FireFly: DCPU-16 is a horrid architecture in many ways 14:45:39 Recreate 0x10c in Minecraft. >ω> 14:45:48 it's approachable but it has a problem of many approachable things, and MC mods 14:45:53 *-Re 14:45:56 it lets you do the easy stuff very easily 14:45:59 and hard stuff with high difficulty 14:46:12 I suppose 14:46:13 however, i do want to make a proper terminal GPU 14:46:16 with palettes and etc 14:48:50 The problem with the complexity from simplicity type is the resolution of the Minecraft world. 14:49:07 Is it really a problem? 14:49:12 I see people use mods such as BuildCraft very effectively 14:49:23 Contraptions for doing useful things invariably become too large to hide in the walls. 14:49:30 What's wrong with large buildings? 14:49:37 Also, BC is also doing things to help that 14:49:47 BC 6.1 brought sided gates so you can have up to 6 gates on a single pipe, up from the previous limit of 1 14:51:18 I think the resolution limitations makes it more interesting 14:51:37 also, that 14:51:43 Hm 14:51:45 Forge MultiPart is a mod which lets you place multiple blocks on a single pipe 14:51:48 I am very much against that 14:51:51 * Melvar wishes for micropart pipes that can fit multiple in a block and additionally share the space with other mods. Glares at EnderIO. 14:52:05 Melvar: I refuse to accept that 14:52:13 However, someone was working on a mod which adds FMP support to BuildCraft. 14:52:19 amadornes, I believe 14:52:22 * FireFly doesn't really know what a pipe is in this context 14:52:30 * FireFly downloads BC.. 14:52:51 FireFly: http://southstormhosting.com/images/Untitled.png 14:52:59 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:53:09 this is an example of pipes 14:53:40 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 14:53:40 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:54:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:54:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:04:03 -!- L8D has joined. 15:04:22 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:08:45 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:11:21 asie: Gates, pipe wire, and facades are, in my book, microparts except lacking interoperability. 15:11:45 gates can't possibly work on other blocks 15:11:51 facades are supported by AE2 and maybe soon thermal dynamics 15:11:53 pipe wire same 15:11:56 can't work on other blocks 15:18:49 I also happen to like Forth, and believe it ought to be included in ROM of any computer and allow you to access it 15:20:19 asie: My point was that you said you were against being able to place multiple things on a single pipe, and yet just previously you seemed happy about sided gates, which I would have classified as just that. 15:21:04 Melvar: in a single block space moreso 15:21:08 because often that requires complex code 15:21:12 and might cause design issues 15:23:00 i'm against being able to do things like place five pipes on one block 15:23:11 because too much in my opinion is too much and infinite compactization is not that good 15:27:00 Okay, but that’s EnderIO-specific, which is incompatible with Forge MultiPart, which you seemed to be complaining about. 15:27:21 Eh. It's hard to explain 15:27:28 My primary complaint is that modern mods try to simplify and miniaturize everything. 15:28:16 BuildCraft is one of the few mods which try to stay core to its roots all the way since beta 15:28:21 MFR went in a different direction, so did IC2 15:28:31 ThaumCraft too... many other mods simply died out 15:34:01 * Melvar nods. 15:45:38 -!- bb010g has joined. 16:00:28 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:17:42 -!- arjanb has joined. 16:22:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:28:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:30:02 -!- kcm1700_ has joined. 16:33:07 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:36:59 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:38:07 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:38:12 -!- perrier has joined. 16:38:43 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:39:56 -!- perrier has joined. 16:49:40 -!- oren has joined. 17:19:25 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:34:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:36:52 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:38:11 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 17:43:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:45:17 -!- TieSoul has joined. 17:48:53 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:51:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:51:09 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 18:02:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 18:07:04 -!- nycs has joined. 18:07:25 -!- `^_^v has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:07:29 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 18:25:14 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:34:42 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:37:48 -!- asie has quit (Read error: No route to host). 18:41:02 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 18:41:38 -!- L8D has joined. 18:45:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:46:13 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:09:53 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:16:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:16:39 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:20:39 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 19:26:05 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:34:23 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:37:50 -!- L8D has joined. 19:41:52 * Taneb is not that good at magic 19:42:05 By magic I mean M:tG, not the other kind 19:42:11 Or the other other kind 19:42:56 Both of which I'm not very good at either 19:46:40 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 19:49:53 -!- nys has joined. 19:52:25 -!- boily has joined. 19:59:13 -!- hjulle has joined. 20:00:35 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:00:52 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:03:28 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:05:04 -!- L8D has joined. 20:11:32 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:14:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:21:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:24:21 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 20:24:56 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:25:48 -!- chaosagent has joined. 20:30:16 -!- Fleur has joined. 20:30:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:30:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:33:51 -!- L8D has joined. 20:39:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:41:32 @ask int-e have you also been missing a fraction of the recent trac mail Cc:s from https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858 ? 20:41:32 Consider it noted. 20:42:16 at least there are enough to remind me to check the page, but then i wonder what _other_ tickets i might have missed Cc:s from. 20:48:05 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:02:17 web.steam_roller: points -30.52, score 4.21, rank 47/47 21:04:22 activity! 21:04:49 if a little unsuccessful 21:04:55 !help 21:04:55 oerjan: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information. 21:05:52 apparently it was a naive (>)*20+[[-]>+] 21:09:39 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:14:45 Huh, that thing isn't broken? 21:15:19 not entirely at least... 21:15:30 Crazy. 21:16:07 why do you expect it to be? 21:16:56 Because I haven't been paying any attention to it. And things generally tend to break. 21:17:10 fiendish 21:17:14 I wonder if the Ruby (and matrix lib) update actually fixed the scoring problems though. 21:17:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CROSSDRESSED CHICKEN). 21:17:35 Oh well, time to go again. 21:18:25 at least it put that program on the bottom as expected 21:38:02 oerjan: I didn't get emails for comments 63 (the commit), 65, 67 and 68... 21:38:51 * oerjan too late realized he shouldn't have deleted the emails he _did_ get before checking this... 21:38:58 . o O ( SLEEPY DUCK ) 21:40:46 i don't think i got 61, 63. i did get 64. i don't _think_ i got 65 and am pretty sure i didn't get 67. 21:41:53 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:42:28 not sure about 62 or 66, 68 and 70. i'm sure i got 69. 21:42:35 oh hm i should still have the last one 21:42:57 ok i did get 70. 21:43:12 so my vague memory is pretty consistent with us missing the same messages. 21:44:26 there's a pipermail archive, i'll check that 21:49:26 ok the archive isn't missing any messages. 22:00:08 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:04:20 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:09:01 -!- L8D has joined. 22:10:12 -!- dianne_ has joined. 22:12:28 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:13:58 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Esseks * New user account 22:28:06 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 22:43:27 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:44:02 -!- L8D has joined. 22:48:01 -!- heroux has joined. 23:00:00 -!- CADD has joined. 23:08:00 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 23:10:54 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:13:22 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 23:21:27 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:22:01 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:24:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:34:07 -!- CADD has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:36:14 -!- L8D has joined. 23:38:12 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 23:40:40 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:43:01 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:44:42 -!- heroux has joined. 23:51:47 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:57:03 -!- CADD has joined. 23:57:49 what do 23:58:55 they cause the rest of irc lines to become invisible hth 2015-03-10: 00:07:01 -!- chaosagent has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:21:14 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:23:09 ah 00:23:21 well that ex 00:23:26 tdh 00:23:44 yw 00:51:17 -!- Tritonio has joined. 01:08:05 [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42104&oldid=42072 * Ypnypn * (+29) 01:08:59 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:12:06 [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42105&oldid=42104 * Ypnypn * (+0) 01:14:11 -!- Fleur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:27:18 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: .). 01:36:57 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 01:38:33 -!- Tetrapyloctomy has joined. 01:44:58 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:59:44 I figured out now that the URI of a UUID is "urn:uuid:" followed by the UUID in lowercase 02:02:53 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 02:04:59 -!- L8D has joined. 02:07:18 hmm 02:07:27 that's new 02:09:29 Thanks for sharing your knowledge zzo38 02:29:19 -!- Tetrapyloctomy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:30:32 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 02:34:28 -!- oren has joined. 02:34:35 -!- Tetrapyloctomy has joined. 02:35:00 is it cheaper to buy one large SD card or several smaller ones? 02:37:38 hmm, price seems to be linear with the data size 02:38:31 no wait, it's not linear. WTF 02:39:46 64GB=70$ 32GB=17$ 16GB=10$ 02:40:19 so I guess the best deal is at 32gb sdcards? 02:40:27 Eh, i think you can find cheaper SD cards than that 02:40:47 well, check the data rate and such too, I guess 02:40:57 this is on futureshop.ca... maybe if I go to koreatown 02:41:12 Don't you have any price comparison sites over there? 02:42:18 I seem to be able to find 64GB SDXC cards for ~300 SEK ≈ 35 USD 02:43:03 Ooh, I see... walmart has much better prices 02:45:00 As said, not all SD cards are equal from a performance point of view. 02:45:48 I don't think i need high speed, this is just to put in my mp3 player 02:47:34 What does "class 10" mean? 02:48:30 Oh, I see, it means the same as 100x CD drive 02:49:05 Or something like that 02:50:11 10 MB/s, or some such. Though it can get confusing. 02:50:48 Like UHS class 1 is regular class 10 or something. 02:52:13 Some cards probably still have those "133x"-style numbers related to nominal CD drive speeds. 02:55:01 Well it seems there's little benefit to getting multiple smaller sd cards 02:56:26 So I'll just get one 64GB one 02:56:38 Usually the GB/$ curve has a peak somewhere in the middle. 03:21:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 03:30:43 -!- Tetrapyloctomy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:41:30 The newer generation rival sata 3 drives! 03:42:20 Which is apparently fast 03:42:40 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:52:33 Hmm... Suppose a genetic algorithm had its mutations driven by a neural network. 03:58:54 now you have two buzzwords 04:14:30 The reverse sounds like the more obvious arrangment. 04:15:47 But I don't see why reversing them wouldn't be interesting. 04:17:56 So you mean a genetic algorithm where the fitness is determined by the output of a neural network that analyses the candidates using its own learning criteria? 04:19:14 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:19:39 -!- ^v has joined. 04:29:41 MDude: yeah that is what i was thinking 04:30:07 elliott: but that also factored in 04:32:05 Sounds nice, though that depends on it being made to do a cool thing. What kind of things would you have it do? 04:40:21 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:46:30 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 04:48:26 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:59:53 -!- oren has joined. 05:02:36 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 05:10:12 -!- L8D has joined. 05:12:10 Gopher doesn't have the problem of needing to program the files on the server for different kind of devices, user interfaces, etc; it already is suitable for any kind of interface and was ever since it was invented. (This includes keyboard, mouse, printing terminal, hand-held, touch-screen, game-system, and even by fax where you have to fill in the circles by pencil) 05:13:19 Yet, a lot of people won't use it. You have to learn to write a gopher server, gopher client, and also to set up the server 05:25:09 Phase In {1U} Instant :: Phase in all cards that are currently phased out. :: Cycling {2} 05:46:57 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:48:48 -!- oren has joined. 05:52:32 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:01:22 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:02:35 -!- mitchs_ has joined. 06:06:10 -!- mitchs has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:12:22 -!- FreeFull has joined. 06:21:56 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 06:29:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 06:54:47 A new kind of Limited format of Magic: the Gathering could be, each player gets ten additional cards, the same set of ten cards each player, those cards must be used in each player's deck and cannot be placed into the sideboard before the game starts. These cards are selected at random from everything. After that then you do draft or sealed, and can choose which of those cards to include and exclude and to add basic lands. 07:27:14 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:31:57 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:32:19 -!- asie has joined. 07:32:21 hi 07:57:16 -!- asie has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:12:23 -!- FreeFull has joined. 08:19:57 -!- L8D has joined. 08:20:21 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:20:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:24:21 -!- boily has joined. 08:38:22 -!- L8D has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 08:38:39 -!- L8D has joined. 09:01:55 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 09:04:51 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:28:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: REGULATED CHICKEN). 09:31:52 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:07:48 -!- S1 has joined. 10:09:14 -!- GeekDude has joined. 10:36:29 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 10:41:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:54:20 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 11:03:40 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:04:10 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:16:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:21:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:35:45 -!- dianne_ has quit (Quit: brb). 11:37:20 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Damian Yerrick * New user account 11:38:55 -!- dianne has joined. 11:40:05 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:40:15 [wiki] [[C-]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42106&oldid=31176 * Damian Yerrick * (+158) Not to be confused with real C-- 11:41:57 Is C-- still a thing? 11:43:27 Real C--, complex C++ 11:43:41 People should just use BCPL 11:43:44 then we all be good 11:51:27 D is imaginary. 11:57:09 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:10:37 mroman, C-- is an intermediate language GHC uses 12:11:11 Not surprising. 12:11:17 Since SPJ is involved in it :) 12:14:00 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:14:04 -!- oren has joined. 12:23:31 are there LISP editors with scaling parantheses? 12:39:35 (i.e. the outermost parantheses will be largest and possibly span multiple lines) 12:47:39 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:48:55 -!- perrier has joined. 12:51:47 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:55:56 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 13:00:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:05:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:13:37 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:27:12 -!- TieSoul has joined. 13:27:20 -!- mihow has joined. 13:30:20 -!- oren has joined. 13:32:28 Is C-- still a thing? <-- it basically lost to llvm 13:33:20 so is probably only used in ghc, ironically often with an llvm backend. 13:46:19 Can you write llvm code directly 13:46:20 ? 13:46:40 or is it binary? 13:46:59 i think there's both 13:47:26 [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42107&oldid=42105 * Ypnypn * (+104) /* Program flow */ 13:47:38 * oerjan doesn't know llvm 13:48:04 define i32 @main(i32 %argc, i8** %argv) nounwind { 13:48:16 but i recall some haskell-related talk about whether to use the binary api or the written representation 13:48:16 Looks cool to me. 13:49:24 and i vaguely recall that the binary api is recommended if you're generating it by program 13:55:19 *reading docs* ohhh, no-unwind, not noun-wind! 13:55:46 nounwind the reverbs 13:57:52 Apparently you can tell it to use any number of bits for an integer 13:58:55 ialeph2 13:59:29 Maybe i'll start writing in this instead of C 14:15:34 it's not cross-platform. 14:15:41 for instance ABI. 14:25:45 elliott: is it cross-platform to all x86-64? 14:25:59 ... 14:26:04 well, actually probably not 14:26:18 since win64 and linux differ on calling conventions, but then it's not OS-portable either 14:26:29 aww boo... 14:26:32 well maybe you could write OS-portable LLVM IR if you really tried but it sounds hard 14:26:46 well, no, since ABI 14:26:57 ZSNES is written in cross platform assembly somehow 14:27:10 crazy mofos 14:31:23 I guess they could use their own call convention for internal calls? 14:31:42 most likely 14:31:45 and lots of ifdefs for portability 14:32:15 anyway, LLVM is SSA, it's not very human-writable :p 14:32:29 Hmm what does the CLR run on? 14:33:28 Oh, right it runs on CIL 14:34:26 CIL looks a lotmore writable 14:37:09 I mean, it is still an assembly language. But it has first-class string type 14:37:34 it's also totally different to LLVM 14:37:43 LLVM is for generating compiled, optimised native code, usually 14:37:44 CLR is a VM 14:37:54 LLVM is a compiler backend/intermediate language, not really a VM any more 14:38:05 (if it ever was) 14:38:08 Can you not compile CLR though? 14:38:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:38:58 no wait, of course you can, I have exe's that i compiled from C#. 14:41:12 Unless C# exes are internally just bytecode? 14:42:59 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:45:36 -!- oren_ has joined. 14:45:51 -!- oren has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:46:41 -!- oren_ has changed nick to oren. 14:50:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:52:31 Apparently you can do either jit compilation or compile to a native exe ahead of time. 14:55:28 C# .exes are just CLR yes 14:55:41 there is some kind of CIL compiler though maybe I think. it might be new? 14:55:45 *native compiler 14:55:49 [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42108&oldid=42107 * Ypnypn * (+2128) /* Constants */ 14:55:52 but the VM is still at a higher-level to LLVM, by far. 14:55:57 LLVM doesn't know about objects or even heap allocation. 14:57:01 [wiki] [[Burlesque]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42109&oldid=42103 * Oerjan * (+121) Now categories on the other hand 15:20:23 to be fair, C by itself technically doesn't know about the heap either 15:20:53 C++ does though 15:21:12 iirc 15:31:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:31:14 nope, apparently you can just load your own version of the new operatorif you're psycho enough 15:33:42 You can run C# .exes in mono as long as they don't make use of windows-specific APIs (Windows Forms does work) 15:42:43 oren: C++ doesn't know about the heap specifically, although it has a more detailed memory model 15:42:56 C++ tends to do everything better than C these days 15:47:33 coppro: have they abandoned bugward compatibility to C yet? 15:50:39 oren: yes 15:50:59 they haven't changed the major misfeatures of C which have been baked into the language, but on small things, they've broken it 15:51:17 and they only give the slightest damn what the C committee thinks these days 15:52:16 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:54:50 xcode backdoors 15:54:50 woot 16:10:46 -!- aloril has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:11:09 -!- aloril has joined. 16:11:57 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:18:26 -!- quintopia has joined. 16:18:30 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 16:18:30 -!- quintopia has joined. 16:28:57 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 16:30:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:36:20 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 16:36:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:40:49 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:40:51 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:41:36 -!- ^v has joined. 16:42:03 -!- perrier has joined. 16:53:19 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:57:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:02:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:05:34 -!- Lymia has joined. 17:07:44 -!- mihow has joined. 17:13:48 Oh god, that's scary. Someone just pointed out to me that I can't look at a word without reading it. 17:16:07 Seems to be a matter of choosing the proper script for the task. 17:16:17 `olist 17:16:54 olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 17:16:56 oren: this works for me, for example: https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D8%A9_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B1%D8%A6%D9%8A%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A9 17:17:26 good point 17:20:43 Which implies that i'm slowly losing my ability to look at a chinese character without reading it, as i gain the ability to read them 17:22:04 Yeah, that's a fun one. 17:38:52 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:40:39 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:44:36 -!- mihow has joined. 18:04:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 18:04:35 -!- bb010g has joined. 18:07:10 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:08:09 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:18:43 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 18:24:52 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:27:22 The new macbook has only one USB-C port on the whole thing.... what the actual fuck? 18:28:18 $19 adapter to get a normal usb port on the damn thing 18:28:34 Well, admittedly it looks very clean 18:28:57 Your phone probably only has a micro-USB slot 18:29:10 I don't own a phone 18:29:14 Oh 18:29:38 s/(only) (has)/\2 \1/ 18:29:59 Does the macbook have a headphone jack even? 18:30:09 No idea 18:31:00 -!- mihow has joined. 18:31:38 Doesn't look like it does. There. They just killed it 18:32:54 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:34:08 Oh, so it has one, but none of their pictures showed it 18:43:59 What surprised me was the whole thing where you charge it through that single USB type C port, too. 18:44:32 I think they had some kind of an adapter so that you could charge it while still having a USB device connected? 18:45:26 This work laptop has a nonstandandard mini-connector for Ethernet. 18:46:09 You need a dongle to stick in a regular cable. But the dongle is not a regular USB-to-Ethernet thing, it's just an adapter for the custom connector. 18:46:34 Admittedly it's slightly smaller than a USB port, so I guess it saves space over having a third USB port. 18:47:01 (It's got two regular USB 3's.) 18:47:38 The specs page lists the Ethernet port as a "Ethernet Extension Connection". 18:48:30 There's also a mini-DP and a full-size HDMI, so I guess for an "ultrabook" this thing is relatively okay. 18:48:47 The keyboard is ridiculous, though. 18:49:30 I usually use a usb keyboard and a usb mouse when i use my computer at a desk 18:50:12 (well, on my previous laptop that was necessary. this one has a fullsize keyboard) 18:50:34 but I use the same setup out of habit 18:51:05 This thing is just weird. Caps lock and backspace have been split in the middle (with no gap, just a sort of a bevel thing) into a Home/End and backspace/delete bi-keys. 18:52:00 lolwut? 18:52:39 And the function key row is a strip of some sort of touch-sensitive material, and touching the leftmost edge swaps between showing F1..F12 (plus four random special symbols) and showing more special stuff (bridgness, volume, some symbols I have no idea what they mean). 18:53:31 Like, there's a single symbol that has a camera and a hand and some extra "motion" lines for the hand. So it's the "wave hand at camera" button. 18:53:43 WTF 18:54:11 I have seen some cray keyboards but nothing like that 18:54:57 One is the "cut" symbol, and then there's a cloud, and then there's a "speaking" icon (face and "sound waves" from the mouth). 18:55:09 None of these result in any events as seen by xev. 18:55:20 I doubt they've really had Linux in mind for this thing. 18:55:49 my friend has this monstrous 20" abomination that has a light-up volume slider thing and a fingerprint password thing 18:56:17 Oh, there's a fingerprint sensor next to the keyboard on this too. 18:56:32 For the record, this thing is the Lenovo "X1 Carbon" ThinkPad. 18:56:56 Although I seem to recall they had two separate hardware revisions, and maybe the keyboard in the first one was less weird or something. 18:57:06 All reviews about this thing I've seen have mostly complained about the keyboard. 18:57:33 Yeah my friend's laptop is also a lenovo of some sort 18:57:36 Though it's pretty nice as far as regular typing and such goes. The touch-panel for the function keys lacks any feel, of course. 18:58:18 Or... maybe it's an asus? 19:03:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:08:27 Well, I looked up the laptop, looks like the newest version has a more normal keyboard 19:11:44 FP: "the new macbook has only 8GB of RAM" Me: "only? ONLY?" 19:15:46 Yeah, this one has only 8GB too. 19:16:03 fizzie: split caps lock actually sounds like a neat idea... I mean, it's not as if its original function is any useful, and if you're going to replace it you might as well stick two keys there instead of just one 19:16:41 FireFly: It's possibly not a bad idea for anyone who had been keeping it as a caps lock and never pressing it. 19:16:45 -!- L8D has joined. 19:16:59 FireFly: If you've done the popular thing and swapped ctrl/capslock, it's probably somewhat confusing. 19:17:18 I have ctrl/esc on my caps lock 19:17:51 I wouldn't mind being able to put another modifier on the left half of the caps lock (since it's the right half I tend to reach for the ctrl/esc functionality) 19:17:54 Is that one of the "modifier when pressed with something, esc when pressed alone" kind of thing? 19:18:01 Yup 19:18:53 This keyboard also moves esc down from the function row, so that it's right next to '1'. 19:19:54 And the key formerly next to 1 (which is §/½ in the Finnish keymap, and not-and-broken-bar or some-such in UK) is between altgr and ctrl on the right side of the spacebar, the place where you'd normally find a menu key and maybe a right Windows key. 19:20:13 There's no menu key in this thing at all, which I mind a little, since I've used that as compose. 19:22:33 I wonder if I’m the only one who thinks replacing capslock with level3shift is the best thing. 19:22:42 An image is worth a kiloword, so https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4J9OAzXNfZAejVOUmt5eVpQZkk/view 19:23:08 Since I'm here in Mountain View anyway, I went to the Computer History Museum on Sunday. 19:23:33 There was one of those Lisp machines with the Symbolics six-modifier keyboards there. 19:23:55 (Control, shift, symbol, meta, super and hyper.) 19:25:07 * Melvar looks. Has control, shift, level3shift, level5shift, alt, super. 19:26:25 There was also a Connection Machine cube, but it's pretty boring with no leds lit. 19:28:00 And there's the working Difference Engine No. 2. They've also got one back in London, but I don't think they show people how it runs. 19:28:23 fizzie: Do those home|end and ⌫|delete keys send the codes one would expect from the keys with the same engraving on a more usual keyboard? 19:28:42 Melvar: As far as I can tell, yes. At least they worked out of the box. 19:29:26 Bah. >ω> So every other layout has to be tweaked to work right on it. 19:30:02 Depends on what you mean by "right". I mean, if you want them to do what they say they do... 19:30:31 I'm using a boring unmodified "setxkbmap fi nodeadkeys" on this. But I don't use the laptop all that much either. 19:32:03 Actually, it’s not as bad as some. 19:32:51 For my rgular input, I am using a custom IME with ` mapped to a whole bunch of shortcuts 19:34:09 𝔣𝔯𝔞𝔠𝔱𝔲𝔯 19:35:08 I wonder why, if laptop vendors are fine with sticking the keypad into the main block + fn, they don’t do so with the rest of the stuff outside the main block. 19:37:49 because volume control and opening a browser with the vendor's homepage are important features? 19:38:03 (I made up the latter, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a real thing.) 19:40:03 int-e: The "adaptive keys" in this thing are supposed to have five modes: home mode, web-browser mode, web-conference mode, function mode and lay-flat mode. 19:40:05 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:40:14 I haven’t ever seen them fill up the left side of the keyboard with that. 19:40:24 I don't know how to get to all those modes, the toggle-mode switch on Linux just toggles between two. 19:41:00 The home mode and the function mode, apparently. 19:42:15 Heh. The cloud key "opens the predefined cloud application". 19:42:53 the butt key opens the predefined butt application 19:48:21 Hmm, my computer has mostly useful buttons. My external keyboard, however, has a full range of useless keys from calculator to five "multimedia keys" 19:49:55 so is bfjoust still a thing? or did that finally die? 19:49:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:51:26 zemhill 19:52:01 zemhill is on the channel 19:52:21 but is it still popular? 19:52:45 idono 19:52:57 I'll assume it's not 19:53:53 oren: if "multimedia keys" means volume control, I would say that's actually useful 19:54:33 no, it means pause, play, stop, forward and back. 19:54:40 Ah 19:55:09 the volume control knob isn't a key and is useful 19:56:30 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:56:55 I should map these keys to useful things. like opening a new terminal 19:57:54 the multimedia keys could be useful if they switched windows around 19:59:52 I find media control to be pretty useful, although I don't have any dedicated keys for it (and even if I did, I probably wouldn't use them) so I have mapped play/pause, prev, next to win+alt+(h,t,n) instead 20:00:29 L8D: BFJousting usually happens in waves. It's not popular now, but it might well be again in the future. 20:00:48 fizzie: makes sense 20:00:50 * Melvar would have something similar if he ever figured out an easy reliable way to do it. 20:00:54 Mostly when I play music I just put on a 5-12 hour youtube videos, so the media keys don't even work 20:01:01 It's happened several times already. There's a brief (a week or two) boom, and then things die down again. 20:02:08 Melvar: to do what? 20:02:29 FireFly: Media control. 20:03:20 Ah 20:04:06 I bind the keys to `mpc toggle`, `mpc prev`, `mpc next` using xbindkeys 20:05:50 -!- merdach has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:05:50 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:06:08 -!- merdach has joined. 20:06:30 I don’t use mpd; I’d want it to affect rhythmbox and vlc, depending on if vlc is running. 20:07:09 Hm, maybe you could come up with something using dbus 20:07:39 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:08:10 Yeah, there’s a protocol there, but I never got around to using it. 20:08:41 I did actually manage to make volume keys work, which is a separate issue. 20:09:23 (I don’t have them on my keyboard, but my headset sends appropriate keyboard events.) 20:16:08 I made volume keys work the other day as XMonad bindings. 20:16:39 That is in fact how I did it too. 20:19:19 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:20:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:20:50 * oerjan idly ping Gregor just in case 20:20:53 *+s 20:23:59 `olist <-- thanks although ideally you should include the number hth 20:25:33 oops bad move gnomes 20:27:13 -!- BlueProtoman has joined. 20:27:28 I feel like running a strange and obscure operating system for some reason. Any ideas? In fact, are esoteric operating systems even a thing? 20:28:06 temple OS hth 20:28:21 oerjan: Beat you to it, someone suggested it in another channel 20:28:45 other thoughts: oberon or plan 9 20:28:56 * oerjan hasn't tried any of those personally, mind you 20:30:43 -!- Fleur has joined. 20:31:52 "are esoteric operating systems even a thing?" Well #osdev is a thing 20:31:58 You can probably find some esoteric OSes there 20:32:30 FireFly: Already there 20:32:34 ah. 20:36:06 Obscure operating systems are certainly a thing people do. 20:37:02 There's http://dangermouse.net/esoteric/pavlov.html 20:37:18 http://dangermouse.net/esoteric/petrovich.html rather 20:37:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:37:42 Taneb: that explains why it didn't ring a bell 20:38:30 -!- Froox has joined. 20:39:18 -!- Froo has joined. 20:39:32 Soon it's just "Fr", and then "F", and then "". 20:40:04 i suspect some of those may not be available 20:40:16 -!- oerjan has changed nick to Fr. 20:40:22 -!- Fr has changed nick to F. 20:40:29 Huh. 20:40:31 -!- F has changed nick to oerjan. 20:40:41 I assume you at least got some "has been registered" messages? 20:40:43 both registered 20:40:53 one of them protected 20:41:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:41:56 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:42:25 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:42:38 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:43:13 -!- adu has joined. 20:43:24 -!- Froox has joined. 20:43:49 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:44:34 -!- Froo has joined. 20:47:07 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:47:39 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:48:13 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:48:42 Frooxius: you're gradually approaching a #fixyourconnection ban hth 20:49:15 (if i can remember the actual syntax) 20:49:17 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:52:05 it doesn't help that i cannot seem to google it 20:52:08 +b nick!user@host$#channel. Or possibly ##channel. 20:52:22 um it's the precise channel i'm trying to google 20:52:27 Oh, okay. 20:52:41 ##c uses ##stop_join_flood. 20:53:05 (I know it's not the only similar channel.) 20:53:34 oh it seems to be ##fixyourconnection 21:01:40 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:02:17 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 21:02:17 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:12:24 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 21:14:12 -!- int-e has left ("annoying oerjan"). 21:14:12 -!- int-e has joined. 21:16:15 -!- L8D has joined. 21:20:44 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:36:17 int-e: wait what 21:37:13 oh 21:38:05 trac still molasses, well it should be fixed soon since i saw spj complain >:) 21:38:06 oerjan: a gerund, not an adjective. 21:38:22 oh i didn't interpret it any other way 21:38:41 i just didn't connect it with the ##fixyourconnection discussion at first 21:39:30 sheesh it actually timed out 21:39:33 how appropriate. 21:39:58 (s/connect/*connect*/g for emphasis) 21:40:15 -!- mroman has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:40:45 i figured. 21:40:50 -!- BlueProtoman has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:41:56 -!- mroman has joined. 21:42:35 * oerjan suddenly starst wondering what fmnssun means 21:42:39 *ts 22:10:12 f minus sun? ~ 22:12:53 tdnrh 22:17:56 that does not really help? 22:19:05 you're getting the hang of this! 22:42:45 -!- boily has joined. 22:44:28 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 23:00:50 sgthot 23:01:31 sgthot? what's a sgthot twh plzkthx 23:02:24 still getting the hang of this hth 23:03:34 o. s i i. tdh. t. 23:03:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:03:50 (also, hellørjan, because traditions.) 23:04:01 (and Jafellot btw!) 23:04:03 Someone who isn't Sgt Cool 23:04:19 tdnh. 23:04:31 belloily 23:05:08 just acronymize to swisc and it'll all be clear (tsial) 23:05:33 *tpsial 23:05:36 SWISs Cheese? 23:05:59 The Psong Sof Ice And Lire? 23:06:22 nope 23:07:38 Supernatural Wraith In Substantial Corpses? Tremendous Spectres Isolated from Abyssal Lands? 23:09:21 t** p******* s******* i* a l** hth 23:11:40 * boily brains... thinks... grinds... 23:18:11 -!- Fleur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:27:53 You could acronymize hellørjan to hø 23:28:55 hø hø hø 23:30:11 "tsial" works as well for some values of t, fwiw 23:38:40 -!- adu has joined. 23:40:31 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit). 23:46:16 ak-RAW-nim-ize 23:47:25 /ak.ʁɔ.nim.i.fje/ 23:47:44 s/k\./.k/ 23:48:07 the something something is a lie hth 23:48:31 the Sgeo is a lie? 23:50:52 that explains so much! 23:53:35 http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2803 hth 23:53:51 (got this via the iwc forum, i think) 23:55:05 丅Дイ：嘘だ！ 23:55:19 also that was too hard to find, i hate that IE seems to only find _some_ urls when autocompleting from the logs :( 23:56:23 oren: Downtack De I??? And no, I won't use soda. 23:56:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CURVED CHICKEN). 23:57:25 it is a angry face, in referance to higurashi hth 2015-03-11: 00:03:27 -!- vodkode has joined. 00:03:53 `relcome vodkode 00:03:55 ​vodkode: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:04:32 heya oerjan how are ya? 00:05:26 -!- L8D has joined. 00:06:26 you do not have clearance for that information citizen 00:07:21 All glory to the glow cloud! 00:07:44 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:10:37 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:38:36 -!- adu has joined. 00:48:35 ProofTechnique: cannot wait for apr 4 00:48:45 oerjan: what's your opinion of danny elfman 00:49:34 who is danny elfman 00:51:17 ok i googled, still no opinion 00:51:38 hm 00:54:51 -!- L8D has joined. 01:16:14 quintopia: I'm jealous. 01:20:57 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 01:29:42 -!- hjulle has joined. 01:34:29 -!- vodkode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:36:22 -!- vodkode has joined. 02:02:10 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:02:42 -!- tromp_ has joined. 02:06:52 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:16:57 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 02:20:02 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 02:22:46 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:24:38 -!- augur has joined. 02:33:34 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:39:02 -!- tromp_ has joined. 03:17:19 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:28:37 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:30:40 -!- L8D has joined. 03:35:22 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:38:17 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 03:43:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Zleep zoon). 04:17:52 -!- tromp_ has joined. 04:22:42 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:10:00 -!- vodkode has changed nick to vodkode-away. 05:19:17 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:23:22 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:32:44 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:34:44 -!- dianne has joined. 05:36:55 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:41:17 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:41:17 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 06:09:35 -!- Frooxius has joined. 06:14:31 -!- f|`-`|f_ has joined. 06:16:37 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:16:41 -!- f|`-`|f_ has changed nick to f|`-`|f. 06:18:27 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 06:19:53 -!- L8D has joined. 06:24:32 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:25:08 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:25:31 -!- ^v has joined. 06:31:44 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:46:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:19:05 -!- tromp_ has joined. 07:23:26 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:32:45 -!- kapil___ has joined. 08:08:29 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:21:09 -!- boily has joined. 08:53:08 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:53:21 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:58:54 `olist (977) 08:59:02 olist (977): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 09:07:57 -!- tromp_ has joined. 09:09:04 [wiki] [[Fish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42110&oldid=38399 * 77.88.93.100 * (+231) /* Interpreters */ 09:12:33 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:14:28 -!- Mackan90096 has joined. 09:17:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:17:42 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 09:17:42 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:19:39 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:21:07 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 09:24:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HYGROTROPIC CHICKEN). 09:25:38 -!- Mackledoge has joined. 09:29:30 -!- Mackan90096 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:37:02 -!- Mackledoge has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:37:40 -!- Mackledoge has joined. 09:54:51 -!- Mackledoge has quit (Read error: error:1408F119:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:decryption failed or bad record mac). 09:55:51 -!- Mackledoge has joined. 09:57:31 -!- L8D has joined. 10:02:12 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:12:34 -!- kapil___ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:33:34 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/forget,_when_up_to_one%27s_neck_in_alligators,_that_the_mission_is_to_drain_the_swamp 10:35:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:41:08 -!- tromp_ has joined. 11:15:03 -!- L8D has joined. 11:17:06 -!- curtiii has joined. 11:22:35 buenos dias! 11:30:02 so i have a dumb idea for a gui framework 11:33:57 -!- Mackledoge has quit (Read error: error:1408F119:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:decryption failed or bad record mac). 11:34:27 -!- Mackledoge has joined. 11:42:54 J_Arcane: can't be much dumber than the ones that exist. 11:42:55 So, what language? 11:42:55 oren: Racket, but possibly not directly, but rather as a major feature of my next language project. 11:42:56 The gist is that the "view" is a function, which takes a model and returns the model, but the function's described with a declarative template syntax that describes both the UI elements, and the input/output elements of same. The function takes a struct/object and injects its values into the output fields as described in the template, and then returns a new struct with the values of the... 11:42:56 ...input fields. 11:42:56 So you'd have (view (window (textbox FOO) (button BAR))), and you pass (view ...) a struct containing fields FOO and BAR, and the framework would draw a window and put the value of FOO into the text box, and if BAR gets clicked, when it returns that cycle, BAR will equal #t or whatever. 11:44:43 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:48:56 you know what would be interesting? 11:48:56 instead of esoteric languages, esoteric CPUs 11:48:58 or more specifically, esoteric instruction sets 11:49:12 (which I guess in a way, does kind of fall under the category of language) 11:49:26 bytepusher 11:52:04 oren: what's that? 11:52:29 oh, interesting 11:52:29 so it's like CHIP-8] 11:53:00 -!- Mackledoge has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:55:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 11:55:27 -!- Mackledoge has joined. 12:07:43 -!- L8D has joined. 12:10:44 -!- Mackledoge has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:22:25 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 12:29:51 -!- adu has joined. 12:30:55 -!- Mackledoge has joined. 12:36:32 -!- Mackledoge has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:38:07 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:39:25 -!- mihow has joined. 12:48:08 Also the GPU-like one by ais523 12:48:28 Ah, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout 12:50:33 I'll be doing a topology module next year! 12:55:14 So maybe I'll be able to figure out what a chu space actually is 12:55:17 `? chu space 12:55:19 A Chu space is just a matrix. Taneb invented them, then Chu stole his invention. 12:55:27 Huh, apparently it's just a matrix 12:59:48 You'd think you would know 13:00:31 Chu also stole my memory of it 13:00:36 And a lot of the precursors to it 13:01:30 I see 13:01:50 I've had to relearn all of group theory in the past three years 13:01:51 -!- nycs has joined. 13:03:17 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:06:43 -!- int-e has left ("RECURRING CHICKEN"). 13:06:43 -!- int-e has joined. 13:09:02 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:12:31 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:12:48 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:21:03 fnordbot, how are you doing? 13:21:04 Taneb: in the dead of myxomatosis, if it's all the same to you," he added, " i'll have you hung, huge, heavy, steady in the sky a huge green catalogue to keep us out!" " what the hell am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to take you to the bridge at that, i can tell. ford was running after him very fast? " very pretty," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was on 13:21:19 I predict a fungot on Saturday. 13:22:23 oh wow, myxomatosis 13:22:39 somebody ban curtiii please. 13:22:46 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 13:22:48 -!- elliott has kicked curtiii. 13:22:49 -!- curtiii has joined. 13:22:54 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b *!*curtiii@*. 13:22:58 didn't I ban something like that recently 13:23:00 -!- elliott has kicked curtiii. 13:23:02 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 13:23:17 thanks 13:28:50 -!- L8D has joined. 13:29:04 whoever greps the log for the last one like that and tells me the commonality 13:29:41 Hm, they query-spammed in #dolphin-emu a few hours ago as well 13:30:23 2015-03-03 22:07:53 <-- elliott has kicked crinzesi (crinzesi) 13:30:27 Presumably that guy 13:31:09 2015-01-03 01:10:31 <-- elliott has kicked corsee (corsee) 13:31:11 or that 13:32:01 well 13:32:07 http://mroman.ch/ESOSC is back online 13:32:49 damn webserver isn't setting charset=utf-8 though. 13:33:39 (http://esosc.mroman.ch also works) 13:34:02 FireFly: but what were the hostmasks :( 13:34:22 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 13:35:27 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:35:59 [wiki] [[ESOSC]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42111&oldid=42082 * 160.85.232.191 * (+113) * ESOSC back in da buzinezz

13:36:42 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:36:58 :crinzesi!~crinzesi@213.143.60.205 JOIN #esoteri :corsee!~corsee@90.174.3.1 JOIN #esoteric ... 13:37:04 codu is abset? 13:37:17 okay well let's just ban everyone with names starting with c 13:37:17 imo 13:38:34 -!- nycs has joined. 13:39:03 -!- `^_^v has quit (Disconnected by services). 13:39:09 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 13:40:24 Two addresses assigned to France Telecom Spain (cprinzesi, curtiii), an IP belonging to ZHAW (http://www.zhaw.ch/), and no obvious link; could be a botnet. 13:41:29 what were they spamming again? I've forgotten already 13:42:00 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * EnumCZ * New user account 13:48:39 -!- Mackledoge has joined. 13:51:43 -!- arjanb has joined. 13:53:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:54:59 -!- L8D has joined. 13:55:43 elliott: i agree. especially clog. that guy steams me up. 13:56:38 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 13:59:17 nnnnnnnnnnnnnn] 13:59:25 -!- vodkode-away has changed nick to vodkode. 13:59:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:01:34 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:01:47 Taneb: http://esosc.mroman.ch/ESOSC-2014-D3-R1.TXT 14:01:52 -!- heroux has joined. 14:03:00 why the limit to just latin letters? 14:03:31 mroman, the grammar seems to have no "This is what the format is" thingy 14:03:57 Initial variable, I think that's the word 14:04:00 Also, what nortti said 14:04:05 mroman: wouldn't that be ESOSC-2015-D3-R1? 14:04:09 oh 14:04:10 RIGHT! 14:04:14 it's 2015 already 14:04:16 :D 14:04:27 but it started in 2014 :) 14:04:29 Also I think shorthand variables should generally be separated by spaces when ambiguity can occur 14:04:50 Although that isn't a problem in this version 14:04:57 you mean for variables with two or more letters? 14:05:05 Yeah 14:06:21 well 14:06:32 ideally you'd say that two letters requires spaces? 14:07:23 hm. 14:07:52 lambda = L, variable, ".", term; that'd be non-abbreviated 14:08:46 you can't distinguish \xy as \"xy" from abbreviated \"x".\"y". then 14:08:47 which sucks 14:09:14 you could require multi letter variables to start with a special character 14:10:19 like _ or ' or whatever 14:10:36 then \_xy_zc is without ambuigity \_xy.\_zc 14:11:26 That's ugly :\ 14:11:46 yeah 14:11:49 but you can't parse it otherwise 14:11:54 I think mandating \x y z. is fine 14:12:02 or do that, yeah 14:12:05 then you can't write \xyz 14:12:09 Right 14:12:30 but that's a good trade-off :) 14:12:36 pfft who needs multiletter variables? just allow all of unicode as variable names! 14:13:18 -!- bb010g has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:13:47 -!- supay has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:14:16 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:14:16 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:14:45 -!- nyuszika7h has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:15:04 Iverson would be happy 14:15:42 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:15:45 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:15:51 `unidecode ;; 14:15:52 ​[U+037E GREEK QUESTION MARK] [U+003B SEMICOLON] 14:16:20 http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-D3-R2.TXT 14:16:30 `unidecode oоpр 14:16:31 ​[U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+043E CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER O] [U+0070 LATIN SMALL LETTER P] [U+0440 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER ER] 14:17:01 quintopia: I'm actually really happy with programming languages that are restricted to ASCII. 14:17:12 neat 14:17:39 `unidecode СССР 14:17:40 ​[U+0421 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ES] [U+0421 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ES] [U+0421 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ES] [U+0420 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ER] 14:19:55 mroman: how about whitespace? maybe just declare that you can use additional whitespace between elements? 14:19:56 -!- supay has joined. 14:21:46 nortti: Ah. Good point. 14:21:55 I'm not sure how you embed that into EBNF 14:22:03 except like saying "additional whitespaces are ignored" 14:22:20 mroman: ' ' | epsilon 14:22:42 well 14:22:44 probably 14:22:46 ' ' | '' 14:22:50 in ascii 14:23:04 yeah but 14:23:07 L, variable 14:23:11 there's no space allowed in there 14:23:15 you'd have to do uhm 14:23:19 L, {spaces}, variable 14:23:54 L, {spaces}, variable, {spaces}, ".", {spaces} 14:23:58 to be precise 14:24:10 or hm 14:24:16 allow spaces after L 14:24:22 L = "\" , {spaces} 14:24:59 -!- fractal has joined. 14:26:26 http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-D3-R2.TXT <- like that? @nortti 14:27:11 -!- bb010g has joined. 14:28:10 that disallows ( foo ) 14:28:44 maybe add additional { spaces }, to the beginning of term? 14:28:57 hm. yep 14:31:25 (updated http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-D3-R2.TXT) 14:31:28 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 14:31:41 also, where am I to start reading the grammar specification? at term? 14:31:43 (there's a ; missing after variable, too.) 14:31:43 does ? thing ? mean the same as thing | ''? 14:32:11 ISO/IEC 14977 says ? ? is a special sequence 14:32:18 with human readable stuff afaik 14:32:19 like 14:32:26 ? those weird looking letters ? 14:32:30 ah 14:32:51 ? all digits ? 14:32:52 what is {} then? 14:32:58 { } is optional repetition 14:33:33 so { thing } means the same as thing = things | ''? 14:33:38 or rather 14:33:43 { thing } is zero or more times a thing. 14:33:47 thing = thing things | '' 14:34:13 yeah that's what it would me 14:34:14 an 14:35:34 variable = .. { spaces } is stupid though 14:35:41 spaces aren't part of the variable actually 14:35:52 it'd also conflict with { variable, " " }, 14:36:44 *fixed* 14:37:27 (http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-D3-R2.TXT) 14:38:16 -!- L8D has joined. 14:39:02 so no whitespace permitted in the "\x."? I see 14:39:11 well 14:39:15 "\x ." is illegal, yes 14:39:24 "\ x." is legal 14:39:56 nortti: hm 14:39:59 L, { variable, " " }, variable, ".", term, { spaces }; 14:40:01 changing that too 14:40:12 also, isn't the { spaces } in the end of lambda a bit redundant? it can only end in term, which ends in { spaces } 14:40:12 L, { variable, " " }, [ variable ], ".", term, { spaces }; should fix that however? 14:40:47 nortti: true 14:40:49 same with parens and application 14:42:51 http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-D3-R3.TXT <- like that 14:42:57 that would allow "\x ." 14:43:58 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:44:00 yup, that seems good 14:44:15 wait, why [ variable ] ? 14:44:20 well 14:44:34 you want "\x y." to be legal 14:44:59 which wouldn't be legal only with { variable, " " } because then you'd be missing a space after "y" 14:45:08 but why [ ]? 14:45:18 because this way it is optional 14:45:25 thus allowing "\x y ." 14:45:28 ooh, right 14:45:51 (otherwise "\x y ." would be illegal because it expects another variable) 14:46:13 hm 14:46:19 this way L, { spaces }, variable , ".", term; is actually redundant 14:46:32 oh. nope 14:46:42 otherwise "\." would be legal :D 14:47:05 hm 14:47:13 but you'd want at least one variable, " " 14:49:34 { variable, " " } [variable] is both zero or more 14:50:37 but (variable, " ") wouldn't allow "\x ." again :( 14:50:52 -!- L8D has joined. 14:50:54 oh 14:50:56 no it would 14:50:57 :D 14:51:16 http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-D3-R4.TXT <- ok, that should fix that zero variables 14:52:20 how about replacing " " with a space in general? 14:52:36 I was just thinking about that too :D 14:52:56 " " could be replaced with { space } 14:53:06 so it would allow even stuff like "\x y z" 14:54:31 k. updated R4 again. 14:54:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:54:48 L, { space }, (variable, { space }), { variable, { space } }, 14:56:30 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:58:35 Taneb: "this is what the format is"? 14:58:44 -!- Mackledoge has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:02:13 -!- L8D has joined. 15:06:57 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:07:17 -!- L8D has joined. 15:08:07 mroman, a canonical top grammar thing 15:08:11 LambdaExpression := ... 15:08:24 [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42112&oldid=41856 * 160.85.232.191 * (+81) /* External resources */ adding ESOSC link. 15:08:38 Taneb: that's "term"? 15:09:19 hm. 15:09:23 do you have a suggested wording? 15:09:32 hmm, what happened to ESOSC brainfuck? 15:09:46 nortti: I think it died due to no consent could be reached? 15:09:48 mroman, make that clear 15:10:22 ah, ok. a bit confusing that it seems to have been skipped in numbering 15:10:46 hm 15:10:46 yeah 15:11:14 lambda calculus syntax was D5 15:11:14 so 15:11:19 I guess I should keep it D5 15:11:22 instead of D3 15:11:30 what was D4? 15:11:40 file extensions :) 15:11:42 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:13:47 Taneb: http://mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-D5-R5.TXT <- like that 15:13:52 or again: Suggested wording :D? 15:14:08 mroman, that's good 15:19:56 -!- Froox has joined. 15:23:34 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:24:22 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:28:25 -!- Fleur has joined. 15:31:57 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:45:16 -!- FleurRose has joined. 15:47:31 -!- Fleur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:47:43 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 15:50:30 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:53:21 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 15:57:47 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:03:37 re 16:04:19 'aight. Then I guess it goes into waiting for approval state @ nortti Taneb 16:06:09 I approve 16:25:59 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 16:28:44 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:35:32 mroman, I also approve 16:36:09 -!- adu has joined. 16:38:25 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:56:34 -!- L8D has joined. 16:59:58 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 17:03:22 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:06:46 yay 17:12:11 that makes A5 then 17:15:37 wait, \x . y is illegal? 17:16:20 (and do you want printable letters or characters in variable names?) 17:16:38 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:16:54 finally I'd worry about associativity, since a b c can be parsed in two ways (though everybody knows which one is the "right" one) 17:18:52 wouldn't this be simpler for "lambda"? lambda = L, { space }, { variable, { space } }, variable, { space }, ".", term 17:24:01 -!- Froox has joined. 17:26:22 -!- Froo has joined. 17:27:46 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:28:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:28:39 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:28:39 int-e: no. term has a leading { space } 17:29:11 I was worried about the space before the . 17:29:28 -!- Froox has joined. 17:29:38 no that's legal. 17:29:41 I see now that this is allowed; I fail to see the purpose of the [ variable ] 17:29:55 In any case the productions look unnecessarily complicated. 17:30:33 (for lambda) 17:30:51 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:31:16 -!- Froo has joined. 17:31:59 L, { space }, { variable, { space } }, variable, { space }, ".", term; should indeed work 17:32:05 and is more concise you're right. 17:32:59 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:33:51 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:37:14 I would probably end up with something like http://sprunge.us/SIfJ 17:37:40 (I mainly did that as an exercise for myself.) 17:41:31 -!- Froox has joined. 17:45:08 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:46:02 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:47:53 Oh, writing parsers without tokenization is so tedious. Now "abc" can be up to three variables... 17:48:12 s/parsers/grammars/ 17:52:30 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:53:30 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:53:33 -!- Froox has joined. 17:54:19 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 17:54:26 -!- Froo has joined. 17:56:01 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:57:34 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:58:05 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:58:32 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:13:13 -!- L8D has joined. 18:17:37 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:18:37 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:22:22 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:52:34 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 18:55:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:00:23 -!- FleurRose has changed nick to Fleur. 19:17:34 Calling back to yesterday's discussion about the "single USB-C port only in MacBook Whateveritwas", apparently we just released an updated version of the "Pixel" Chromebook, and it has... a USB-C port both for charging and peripherals. (Except it's got two of those, and two regular USB 3 type-B ports. Also I think it's not quite as crazy-expensive as the old Pixel, even if it's still quite so.) 19:19:14 I'm not so happy about USB type-C ports in general, but I guess if it turns out all new laptops will use it for charging (instead of having custom charger ports) that's a win? 19:20:09 "-- universal charger[3] make it easy to take Pixel anywhere --" "[3] Charger only works with USB Type-C devices." nice footnote. 19:20:17 And/or nice definition of "universal". 19:21:14 (Also I meant type A ports instead of type B in the above. I keep mixing those up.) 19:22:35 meh, another USB connector?! 19:23:08 (old news apparently but I haven't been paying attention) 19:23:16 Yes, yes... but standardized chargers! 19:24:00 On the other hand, another USB connector. :/ 19:27:23 Also the standard type C size is pretty small (not too much larger than micro-B), so maybe they won't make mini-C and micro-C next. (Yeah, right.) 19:33:02 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:35:13 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:35:46 -!- Froox has joined. 19:37:22 and 24 pins, crazy. 19:39:02 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:40:14 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:47:23 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:48:25 -!- Froox has joined. 19:49:19 -!- Froo has joined. 19:51:05 `unidecode ᵤ 19:51:20 ​[U+1D64 LATIN SUBSCRIPT SMALL LETTER U] 19:52:05 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:52:16 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:52:57 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:53:37 -!- Froox has joined. 19:54:20 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:56:52 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:05:35 -!- adu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:06:55 -!- boily has joined. 20:11:34 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:13:47 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 20:36:02 -!- adu has joined. 20:40:33 -!- oren has joined. 20:41:08 int-e: Those are some pretty small pins. 20:41:13 int-e: Must be expensive to make, too. 20:41:55 (Well, that was just pure guesswork, I don't know anything about making hardware. Maybe it's not.) 20:43:22 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 20:44:27 -!- Fleur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:46:57 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:48:38 -!- Fleur has joined. 21:02:15 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: zzz). 21:04:25 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 21:11:04 -!- Fleur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:15:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:35:17 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:35:58 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 21:35:58 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:36:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:42:39 -!- L8D has joined. 21:44:31 ok i'm an idiot. my monitor was glitching up, and i tried to screenshot it 21:44:57 obviously the computer has no idea about glitches in the monitor 21:45:06 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:47:17 well at least it proves the error isn't somewhere earlier 21:49:15 true. clearly the error is between the display memory and the LCD panel 21:50:21 although I should have known that, given that I have been solving the glitches by punching the back of the screen 21:52:06 Someone should make a laptop with a webcam that points at the screen 21:53:22 -!- naturalog has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:54:55 Or maybe just a portable reflective surface you can hold in your hands. 21:55:11 now that's crazy talk 21:55:39 helloren. fizziello. hellørjan. 21:55:46 Hoily. 21:55:47 oren: what do you glitches look like? 21:55:49 hb 21:55:53 hø. 21:58:12 It looks like the screen freezing and then slowly turning white until I hit it 21:59:03 bohily 21:59:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:59:33 FirelloFly! 21:59:44 oren: ŏ_Ô? 22:00:08 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:00:49 -!- naturalog has joined. 22:08:08 -!- TieSoul_ has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 22:09:43 -!- TieSoul has joined. 22:13:25 -!- augur has joined. 22:31:15 `unicode MINUS SIGN 22:31:21 ​− 22:31:26 thank you 22:32:18 `unidecode ― 22:32:30 ​[U+2015 HORIZONTAL BAR] 22:32:31 -!- TieSoul has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 22:34:05 -!- TieSoul has joined. 22:46:16 `unidecode - 22:46:26 ​[U+002D HYPHEN-MINUS] 22:46:33 WTF 22:47:32 `unidecode ー一～ 22:47:33 ​[U+30FC KATAKANA-HIRAGANA PROLONGED SOUND MARK] [U+4E00 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-4E00] [U+FF5E FULLWIDTH TILDE] 22:49:30 that last one is a tilde 22:49:32 not a horizontal line 22:49:52 `unidecode － 22:49:53 ​[U+FF0D FULLWIDTH HYPHEN-MINUS] 22:50:04 that's better 22:50:20 ＷＴＦ 22:51:21 　[U+FFUU FULLWIDTH WHAT-THE-FUCK] 22:51:50 `run unicode 'EN DASH' 'EM DASH' # I'm missing a compose key 22:51:53 ​–— 22:52:50 The difference between e{n,m} dashes is pretty subtle (if it even exists) on this particular monospace font. 22:53:06 Maybe that makes sense, given the names. 22:53:20 ern dash 22:53:37 (with a sufficiently miniscule keming) 22:53:39 On my terminal settings the em dash overlies the next charcter 22:53:55 it's very clear in this proportional one 22:54:02 but in a monospace font, 'm' and 'n' have the same width 22:54:10 so you'd expect em and en dashes to have the same width, too 22:54:26 Yes, that was the "makes sense" part. 22:54:38 I think a lot of the characters are being taken from some other font who 22:54:53 is porposional 22:55:26 fuck speling 22:55:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:56:12 Yeah. This font only supports characters from Shift-JIS 22:58:37 my apartment just vibrated, with a dull sound of somebody having tripped... 23:02:45 porpoisonal sound fonts 23:03:22 boily: is someone living upstairs twh 23:03:45 Interesting fact: shift-jis has twelve characters whose origins and meanings are entirely unknown:墸壥妛彁挧暃椢槞蟐袮閠駲 23:04:11 These later made it into unicode 23:04:35 actually, 彁 is the only character with completely unknown origin 23:04:49 oren: they're a magical incantation that causes cthulhu to trip 5 minutes in the past hth 23:04:51 others have partial infos about them available 23:05:42 Do they have a meaning? 23:07:10 mostly transcription error. 23:07:32 Ah, that makes sense 23:07:44 彁 is unique because there is no clue about the origin of error (or if any, plausible origin) 23:08:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIS_X_0208#Kanji_from_unknown_sources 23:08:49 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:10:55 so, do those kanji have any actual pronunciation? 23:11:02 oren: there aren't nobody upstairs. and as far as I know, there is no upstairs. 23:11:13 I'm guessing no, because IIRC you cant pronounce a kanji just from its shape 23:11:33 I'm sure some demented entomologist'll come with a meaning for 蟐 someday. 23:11:34 ais523: in fact, to some degress, you can. 23:11:47 http://kanjitisiki.com/yuureimozi/ Some have pronounciations listed on this website 23:11:54 * oerjan swats boily -----### 23:12:01 hi hi hi ^^ 23:12:09 boily: heh 23:12:10 most kanjis (or hanjas or hanzis, anyway) are phono-semantic compounds and their sounds can be inferred from a part of the character 23:12:19 Hm. I tried to find a lounge with a VW bus in it, but only found a Star Trek corridor, a ball pit, and a pile of rooms named after Star Trek characters. I think I'm in the wrong building. 23:12:27 oh, yeah. "read the side" 23:13:06 (when I say "most", I really mean about 90%) 23:14:28 fizzie: ask Taneb. he has experience being sci-filly mislead. 23:14:40 (btw, what is the adverb for sci-fi?) 23:16:05 I'm not sure you can make arbitrary noun modifiers into adverbs 23:16:58 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:17:02 sci-fial? 23:17:24 i've seen SFnal used seriously, though that is of course a different abbreviation 23:17:36 I had a dream where some asshole joined this channel and /msg'd me multiple times when I was asleep to tell him to take his side in arguments and enforce it with op powers 23:17:39 psa: don't be an asshole 23:18:24 sci-fi -> science-fiction -> science-fictionally -> scifixily 23:19:05 boily: Found the bus. I was in fact in the wrong building. 23:19:10 But SFnaly 23:19:16 is shorter 23:21:34 * oerjan hasn't got to the part of the log with elliott's dreams in it yet 23:22:12 fizzie was in the wrong building. oren drives the bus. 23:22:27 Hmm... it seems that while the On-yomi generally follow the "read the side" rule, the kun-yomi are all over the place. makes sense i guess since the kun-yomi are just japanese words assigned to a chinese character with a close meaning 23:22:54 yes, that's completely arbitrary 23:23:02 on'yomi are easier than their kunterparts. 23:23:10 WWWWW 23:23:26 WWWWWW is much easier to type than lololol 23:23:52 I'm not sure 23:23:59 alternating between two characters is often faster than spamming one 23:24:05 lololololololololololololol 23:24:09 wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww 23:24:12 yep, the ws are more painful 23:24:13 wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww 23:24:17 oerjan: er, I just woke up and said that now. 23:24:29 ais523: you forgot to capitalize the ws too 23:24:40 oerjan: assume I have a caps lock key 23:24:50 People still have those? 23:24:58 my caps lock key was remapped to Esc a long, long time ago. 23:25:07 Also, I hope you have a terrible sense of humor, or you will definitely get RSI. 23:25:10 elliott: i am sorry, i am going to assume your dream was psychic until i've finished the logs hth 23:25:11 Um, I don't "spam" W I hold it down 23:25:11 also, as a pianist expert I say lol is easier than www. 23:25:31 oren: neophyte. plebeian. real men spam w. 23:25:45 oren: You take your reasonableness elsewhere 23:25:49 holding it down's limited by the keyboard repeat rate 23:25:56 Whippersnappers with their key repeat 23:26:02 I guess you could increase the keyboard repeat rate just to spam nicovideo more easily 23:26:09 my keyboard's repeat rate is sufficiently high that I have no problem spamming wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww 23:26:30 32iw 23:26:51 good try. 23:26:56 > repeat'w' 23:26:57 Not in scope: ‘repeat'w'’ 23:27:01 argh 23:27:12 saved by the syntax bell 23:27:15 'w' looks like a face of some animal 23:27:25 oerjan: when I "woke up" in the dream I was grouchy but vaguely satisfied by the thought that he's probably the one I should ban instead 23:27:32 lifthrasiir: it's a vampire bat hth 23:28:00 (ôwô) 23:28:14 >ω> 23:28:27 owl 23:28:40 the only word that's an emoticon of itself 23:28:49 That would have a v, would it not? 23:29:20 this owl is from the czernobyl area hth 23:29:38 TIL a chernobyl owl represents itself when written. 23:30:10 "chernobyl owl" doesn't look like I imagine a chernobyl owl would look like, to me 23:31:00 -!- L8D has joined. 23:31:06 Chernobyl Owls are very important in representation theory 23:31:53 🐦 23:32:42 Unicode doesn't appear to have an owl yet 23:33:02 What a travesty 23:34:37 ) \___/ ( 23:34:37 { ( @)v(@ ) } 23:34:37 { | ~~~ | } 23:34:37 { / ^^^^ \ } 23:34:37 ___`m – m`__ 23:37:38 At least I can say 🔨 💻 💥 23:37:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PRISMATIC CHICKEN). 23:38:27 `unidecode 🔨 💻 💥 23:38:35 U+1F528 HAMMER \ UTF-8: f0 9f 94 a8 UTF-16BE: d83ddd28 Decimal: 🔨 \ 🔨 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+0020 SPACE \ UTF-8: 20 UTF-16BE: 0020 Decimal: \ \ Category: Zs (Separator, Space) \ Bidi: WS (Whitespace) \ \ U+1F4BB PERSONAL COMPUTER \ UTF-8: f0 9f 92 bb UTF-16BE: d83ddcbb Decimal: &# 23:38:41 -!- bb010g has joined. 23:38:47 `unidecode 💥 23:38:54 U+1F4A5 COLLISION SYMBOL \ UTF-8: f0 9f 92 a5 UTF-16BE: d83ddca5 Decimal: 💥 \ 💥 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 23:40:30 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 23:41:07 Or I can tell a story: 👮 💴 👯 👇 👄 👅 23:41:29 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:41:59 -!- L8D has joined. 23:44:04 Yikes 23:44:39 I have no idea why "woman with bunny ears" is a legitimate unicode character 23:44:51 but I think I just used it correctly 23:50:10 elliott: nothing in the logs, i guess your dream must be precognitive then hth 23:50:51 oren: emoticons most likely 23:51:22 oerjan: yikes 23:52:04 👨 💸 📉 💢 ; 👨 💴 👔 ,💥 📈 -- if only this were true 23:53:01 Stress out about losing money. Buy suit. Explosive growth? 23:53:15 Yah 23:54:36 Unfortunately wearing a suit has virtually no effect on how much money you make... 23:56:46 Though how much money you make can have an effect on how many suits you wear. Or how many suits you make, depending on what side of things you're one. 23:56:53 *on 23:58:20 -!- Froo has joined. 2015-03-12: 00:01:22 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:02:58 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:03:58 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:05:01 -!- Froox has joined. 00:05:56 -!- Froo has joined. 00:08:56 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:09:47 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:13:04 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:13:32 Now I want to use these in my next assignment. "Let 🍩 (x) be the proposition that x is a donut..." 00:13:39 -!- ^v has joined. 00:27:03 `unidecode 🍩 00:27:04 U+1F369 DOUGHNUT \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8d a9 UTF-16BE: d83cdf69 Decimal: 🍩 \ 🍩 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 00:35:17 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:04:19 -!- GeekDude has joined. 01:06:35 grmble no confirmation whether my yafgc comment was posted/sent to moderation or summarily refused (i included both an Ø and a url, although to the same site) 01:07:00 -!- Froox has joined. 01:08:40 oh well if it doesn't go through then they don't deserve my wisdom anyway. 01:10:59 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:11:29 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:20:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:20:37 -!- Frooxius has joined. 01:21:24 -!- Froox has joined. 01:21:57 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:24:52 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:31:03 -!- kapil___ has joined. 01:49:14 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:53:33 -!- password2 has joined. 02:03:04 -!- Froo has joined. 02:04:12 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:06:32 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:07:35 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:18:08 -!- L8D has joined. 02:20:49 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:22:14 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:23:20 -!- Froox has joined. 02:26:17 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:27:35 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:27:38 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:41:39 a triangle is a quadrilateral with two identical vertices 02:44:24 however, a quadrilateral is NOT a pair of triangles with two vertices in common 02:45:39 Why? because the other two points also need to be guaranteed to be on opposite sides of the line formed by the two common vertices 02:56:26 nevermind, I'mma figure out my newest language idea instead. So, suppose you have some stateful code with local variables, inside a subroutine called foo. I propose a construct where, when calling foo, the return value is not merely a value, but is a dictionary of all the local state variables of foo. 03:03:48 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 03:06:52 -!- elliott__ has joined. 03:07:10 -!- int-e_ has joined. 03:07:34 -!- ski_ has joined. 03:09:03 -!- yorick_ has joined. 03:09:17 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:09:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:09:20 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:09:20 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:09:21 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:09:27 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 03:09:27 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:11:58 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:15:47 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 03:17:28 -!- password2 has joined. 03:24:29 -!- kcm1700_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:27:56 -!- Melvar has joined. 03:44:37 -!- idris-bot has joined. 03:57:22 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:59:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nt). 04:05:20 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:48:16 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:49:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 05:33:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:37:04 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 05:37:04 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:41:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:41:43 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:44:27 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:46:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:46:33 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 05:49:58 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:52:59 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:57:18 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 06:00:02 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:19:44 -!- j-bot has joined. 06:20:24 -!- j-bot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:20:34 -!- j-bot has joined. 06:21:02 -!- j-bot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:21:26 -!- j-bot has joined. 07:08:18 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:40:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:12:34 -!- hjulle has joined. 08:14:02 -!- int-e_ has changed nick to int-e. 08:26:52 -!- boily has joined. 09:00:12 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:04:32 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:15:24 ...next year I'll have a module in what is essentially Eodermdrome++ 09:22:51 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BICUBIC CHICKEN). 09:30:38 what Taneb 09:31:17 http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/undergraduate/modules/grat.html 09:31:49 I should probably start being alive to understand 09:33:07 the "description" and "aims" are the same, except that the "aims" starts with a couple of bullet points that aren't in the "description" 09:33:09 also, UML, seriously? 09:34:40 ? 09:35:03 also, Firefox's new search box is so much worse than the old one 09:35:16 for someone like me who uses site-specific search a lot 09:35:30 I don't know how to site-specific 09:35:43 isn't that `site:<>` 09:35:55 no, that's using Google or the like to search one site 09:36:03 I mean, searching sites using the site's own search engine 09:36:12 e.g. I can set the Firefox dropdown box to search Esolang, or Wikipedia, or the like 09:36:22 except I used to be able to select the search engine first, then search 09:36:48 now, I have to enter the search query first, then click on the search engine, and pressing return will always search the default search engine (which can only be changed through configuration) 09:38:24 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 09:48:02 `unicode LOWERCASE GREEK LETTER THETA 09:48:08 No output. 09:48:12 hmm 09:48:20 `unicode LOWERCASE GREEK THETA 09:48:24 maybe just "small"? 09:48:27 No output. 09:48:29 `unicode SMALL GREEK LETTER THETA 09:48:30 No output. 09:48:34 :-( 09:48:38 `unicode THETA 09:48:39 U+0398 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER THETA \ UTF-8: ce 98 UTF-16BE: 0398 Decimal: Θ \ Θ (θ) \ Lowercase: U+03B8 \ Category: Lu (Letter, Uppercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+03B8 GREEK SMALL LETTER THETA \ UTF-8: ce b8 UTF-16BE: 03b8 Decimal: θ \ θ (Θ) \ Uppercase: U+0398 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ 09:49:28 `unicode GREEK SMALL LETTER TAU 09:49:29 ​τ 09:53:31 -!- L8D has joined. 09:58:34 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:15:15 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:34:22 -!- FreeFull has joined. 10:53:09 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:03:42 -!- ski_ has changed nick to ski. 11:16:51 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick. 11:18:12 fnordbot, how are you doing? 11:18:13 Taneb: respects." " who said that?" " try to explain to her to know that in to the reader's digest. glad you could make it a paying proposition. he had no discernible mongoloid characteristics, and the only vestiges left in mr l prosser was," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the language. " at a wild guess, i'd be all." " i just don't say 11:19:03 When I'm not panicking about this coursework that's in for tomorrow, I shall learn J! 11:22:35 Oh I need to learn Plankalkül. 11:24:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:26:28 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:27:51 -!- GeekDude has joined. 11:32:57 -!- bb010g has joined. 11:58:55 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:11:45 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:14:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:15:51 -!- oren has joined. 12:18:51 -!- `^_^v has joined. 12:34:38 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:35:03 -!- ^v has joined. 12:54:39 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 13:18:42 http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31858156 :(((( 13:23:42 Oh. 13:30:09 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 13:31:28 -!- L8D has joined. 13:33:10 -!- int-e has set topic: RIP Terry Pratchett | I'm a fungot trapped in a house with Internet but no one there to connect me | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 13:34:51 aw 13:34:55 long time coming, but aw 13:35:42 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:41:52 He has been my favourite author for quite a long time now, it is so sad to know that he is not around any more 13:49:06 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:56:30 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 13:57:21 Terry Pratchett too? Damn. 13:59:22 Hmm, who else died... Sam Simon? 13:59:41 Nimoy. 14:00:16 Oh, that was a long time ago. 14:00:23 ... 14:00:26 That was like last week 14:00:42 a bit over two weeks 14:01:01 oh wait. 13 days. stupid february 14:01:17 Hardly long ago. 14:01:28 a lot of people have died in the meantime. 14:01:53 about 2 point 2 million. 14:03:00 How many people will mourn your passing do you think? 14:05:17 5 14:05:44 That not too bad. Close family and a best friend? 14:05:49 That's* 14:07:07 Maybe 10, but yeah, close family and perhaps a colleague or two. 14:09:05 And I guess (can I say hope without sounding like an asshole?) that I'll survive most of that close family, so the number may become smaller. 14:10:34 AndoDaan: to be fair, I didn't hear of any notable death between Leonard Nimoy and Sam Simon, but the latter seemed significant enough. 14:10:51 Live a life such that your death will be celebrated by millions 14:11:25 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 14:11:52 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:12:44 int-e, we got lucky with Ford surviving. 14:13:39 "Be Hitler" sage advice from Jafet 14:13:56 -!- AndoDaan_ has changed nick to AndoDaan. 14:16:36 Nah, that's going a bit too far. You shouldn't kill yourself just because you want to be celebrated right now. 14:17:05 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 14:19:46 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:19:53 -!- AndoDaan_ has changed nick to AndoDaan. 14:27:26 Did you download the new Famicompo? 14:35:14 -!- ^v^v has joined. 14:38:17 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:38:17 -!- Melvar` has joined. 14:39:15 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:40:28 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:44:55 -!- Fleur has joined. 15:01:29 [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42113&oldid=42108 * Ypnypn * (+0) /* Constants */ 15:01:41 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 15:02:05 -!- idris-bot has joined. 15:19:24 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:19:45 -!- MoALTz has joined. 15:32:59 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:34:08 hi 15:56:42 -!- arjanb has joined. 16:20:42 -!- nycs has joined. 16:21:27 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:46:32 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:52:42 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 17:04:14 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:06:42 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:08:58 -!- L8D has joined. 17:10:12 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:13:00 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:13:18 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:36:40 -!- nortti has changed nick to LouisNapoleon. 17:36:54 -!- LouisNapoleon has changed nick to nortti. 17:38:55 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:39:17 -!- erdic has joined. 17:42:14 -!- augur has joined. 17:56:07 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 18:10:57 -!- bb010g has joined. 18:13:32 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:13:58 -!- Lymia has joined. 18:14:42 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 18:17:01 -!- arjanb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:24:23 -!- naturalog has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:26:31 -!- L8D has joined. 18:26:51 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:30:29 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:32:52 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:37:15 -!- j-bot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:37:24 -!- j-bot has joined. 18:37:52 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:42:32 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:42:56 -!- ^v^v has joined. 18:44:24 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:46:09 -!- naturalo1 has joined. 18:47:27 -!- heroux has joined. 18:47:57 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:48:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 18:48:54 -!- naturalo1 has changed nick to naturalog. 18:50:06 Apparently the IO monad was actually invented in 1965. 19:08:08 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 19:09:10 -!- oren has joined. 19:14:09 Everything was invented about 1960 something. 19:14:38 Nothing ever actually happened prior to 1961 19:14:55 -!- michael12 has joined. 19:15:07 Merhaba 19:15:15 Hiiiii 19:15:30 `welcome 19:15:32 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:15:42 or... 19:15:45 Thank you 19:15:52 How are you 19:15:52 `relcome 19:15:57 ​Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:16:00 hmm. 19:16:12 I doing well, thank you. Yourself? 19:16:18 Where are you from ? 19:16:29 Good thanks 19:16:53 canada 19:16:57 We're from the Internet. :P 19:17:05 İ m turkey 19:17:12 canada = internet 19:17:13 int-e :d 19:17:18 int-e: Are you sure? 19:17:20 İ m home 19:17:38 Bu kadar ingilizcee 19:17:47 zzo38: I think so... 19:17:47 Baska bilmiyorum :d 19:18:00 "but i can speak some english" 19:18:14 何も分かりません！ 19:18:14 No speak english 19:18:20 Did I get that right. Can I speak Turkish? 19:18:22 Oren :( 19:18:30 Yes turkish 19:19:22 What esotetic ? 19:19:44 :( 19:19:53 See you later 19:20:17 またね～ 19:20:24 -!- michael12 has changed nick to turkishpizza. 19:20:29 .d 19:20:41 Oren :( 19:20:48 You licked your eyeball out. 19:20:55 Ben gidiyorun 19:20:58 all this nick polymorphism makes me dizzy 19:21:08 ???? 19:21:21 Sorryyy 19:21:47 -!- turkishpizza has changed nick to ardaturan. 19:22:10 -!- ardaturan has changed nick to kivanctatlitug. 19:22:36 :( 19:23:06 -!- kivanctatlitug has changed nick to mayk. 19:23:11 -!- mayk has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 19:23:38 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:24:44 Ꙩ Ꙭ ꙮ 19:27:06 mitosis. 19:31:41 your toes is? 19:36:33 -!- L8D has joined. 19:36:49 Nope, can't think of anything clever. 19:37:45 -!- Froox has joined. 19:40:39 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:41:44 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:42:25 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:42:46 -!- Froox has joined. 19:43:50 -!- Froo has joined. 19:46:01 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:46:29 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:47:34 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:48:05 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:48:39 -!- boily has joined. 19:51:03 -!- CrazyM4n has joined. 19:58:02 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:06:20 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:13:07 -!- L8D has joined. 20:29:52 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:32:44 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:36:00 -!- CrazyM4n has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:39:02 -!- CrazyM4n has joined. 20:39:40 -!- adu has joined. 20:42:15 -!- CrazyM4n has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:43:15 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 20:45:30 -!- CrazyM4n has joined. 20:47:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:56:13 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:56:23 -!- Fleur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:00:09 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 21:01:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:16:38 -!- L8D has joined. 21:25:48 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:26:13 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:31:49 -!- CrazyM4n has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:50:24 -!- bb010g has joined. 21:53:49 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:03:44 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:06:51 -!- Tritonio has joined. 22:14:53 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 22:22:03 -!- L8D has joined. 22:46:01 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:01:00 -!- L8D has joined. 23:03:59 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:05:55 -!- dianne has joined. 23:30:04 -!- boily has quit (Quit: EPOXIED CHICKEN). 23:30:12 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:34:17 -!- oren has joined. 23:40:40 I have invented a system for representing time of day, called "global color time". For example, right now it is Red 100 23:41:13 in three hours it will be purple 40 23:41:21 and so one 23:41:35 s/ne/e 23:41:43 s/oe/on 23:43:29 the six colors of the color wheel are assigned 240 minutes each 23:49:58 OK 23:53:15 Since there's no "first" color on a color wheel, there is no need for time zones in this system 23:53:57 OK 23:54:14 well, there kindof is, since noon is different time in different zones 23:55:26 Right but people in Toronto can just remember that noon in Toronto is blue 115 23:55:35 its just, the zone info is needed to figure out what time of day, the actual color is, rather than figuring out what time corresponds to what time of day in a different zone 23:55:46 er, that's not right, but you see wheat i mean 23:55:52 That's no different than just using plain numbers 23:56:11 just map all the colors to sequential numbers, bam 23:56:27 the color aspect solves nothing :P 23:56:34 But see, here there is no need to have different nubmers in different places 23:56:57 say red is 1 23:56:59 red 116 is red 116 throughout the whole earth 23:57:27 then 1 italy is noon, while 1 in spain is afternoon 23:57:35 same difference 23:58:01 the entire color thing is pointless :> 23:58:12 it's a needless obfuscation 23:58:25 but the sequential numbers give one time zone, britain to be exact, precedence 23:58:27 Maybe, although, we still have names of months, days of weeks, and astrological signs. 23:58:48 oren: MAP RED TO 1 23:59:00 use your scheme saying one instead of red! 23:59:05 get it? 23:59:10 i do get it 23:59:13 blue = 2 23:59:15 Red is also the lowest frequency of colors compared to blue. 23:59:18 green 3 23:59:28 the colors are pointless 23:59:46 in any case, the timezone info cannot be ignored 23:59:56 colors, numbers, anything 2015-03-13: 23:30:42 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:30:43 -!- glogbot has joined. 23:30:46 i find your misspelling disturbing, and also irrelevant 23:30:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:30:47 -!- EgoBot has joined. 23:30:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:30:47 ooh 23:31:04 >_> 23:31:20 ah. 23:32:02 typically that there would be a discussion ongoing at the moment :P 23:32:11 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:32:11 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 23:32:21 although i actually pinged Gregor, so there 23:32:28 Yeah, that's the important part X-D 23:45:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:45:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:46:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 23:46:02 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:49:32 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:51:15 I hope you will fix it soon? 23:53:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:55:32 -!- tromp_ has joined. 23:56:42 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 2015-03-14: 00:00:59 wow, the rules of baseball have the most repetitive URL I've ever seen: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_rules.jsp 00:01:26 O, yes it is very repetitive 00:02:36 But is it official? Or MLB? 00:02:41 I need to know for certain. 00:08:51 interestingly google tells me mlb may stand for "major league baseball" or "minor league baseball", so your url is repetitive but not unambiguous. 00:15:19 also those appear to be the 2014 official rules, so i'm not sure they work in 2015. and by providing us with this url you committed a copyright infringement: "No part of the Official Baseball Rules may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopy, recording or any information storage and retrieval system now known or to be invented, without permission in writing from the Office 00:15:19 Commissioner of Baseball." 00:15:32 -!- L8D has joined. 00:16:25 Is the URL part of the rules too? 00:16:32 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 00:17:20 Koen_: I'm not convinced that the URL itself is part of the rules 00:17:20 I guess not but they are a means to transmit them 00:17:26 even if it is, you can't copyright single words or short phrases 00:17:32 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 00:17:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:21:16 ais523: my point is that it is weird to forbid to reproduce or transmit electronically a pdf that is freely available 00:21:34 I suspect that they don't want people sharing the PDF via any method other than their website 00:22:23 Although you can transmit via a medium invented at the time of writing but unknown 00:22:31 eg Apache Wave probably 00:31:26 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:31:48 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:34:39 No they mean you aren't allowed to print out and photocopy it. 00:36:12 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 00:36:12 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:36:53 Although, writing your own document which is describing the same stuff might be OK. 00:37:30 So that way you could make a document using a different file format such as .txt 00:37:54 Koen_: it's funny, you did actually reproduce a part of the PDF. 00:38:20 Yes but that is the copyright notice; they copy that everywhere including in other books too 00:38:29 (arguably not a copyrightable part, but more so than a URL) 00:39:14 int-e: Debian's copyright parser complained that my summary of the copyright status didn't explain the copyright of the summary of the copyright status 00:39:39 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:39:49 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:39:55 so I improvised this: http://trac.nethack4.org/browser/copyright#L5 00:40:13 int-e: it is part of the pdf but is it part of the Official Baseball Rules? also the url isn't part of the rules but it is a means of transmitting them 00:42:25 Koen_: nope 00:42:32 oh 00:43:02 Koen_: the transmission of the rules is performed by the browser once you click on a link on the page that is referred to by the given URL 00:43:32 So it's like giving somebody the address of a book shop that sells exactly one book. 00:43:51 well, that's transmitting from the server to my computer, but it was already on ais's computer 00:44:06 and it would never have been on mine if he hadn't given the url 00:44:46 so, even though the pdf did not physically travel from ais's computer to mine, it was transmitted 00:44:56 just like a wave doesn't need matter to travel 00:45:32 Koen_: the transmission was done by the mlb.mlb.com server; presumably the owners have the required written permission to perform that transmission. 00:45:47 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:46:08 Koen_: If they do not, it's them that violate copyright, not ais523 or you. 00:46:22 my point is, this irc channel took part in the transmission 00:46:28 No it did not. 00:46:41 then i guess this settles that 00:46:41 -!- L8D has joined. 00:47:01 -!- adu has joined. 00:48:49 I cannot get this Internet configured right. :/ 00:49:08 fungot: how do you do? 00:49:09 int-e: the point is 00:49:10 fungot, you're alive!!! 00:49:10 Taneb: maybe two, actually, not so complicated you constantly get lost... but i'm sure i'll manage to sort that out :) 00:49:21 ^style 00:49:21 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 00:49:27 I have a ugly workaround so that I could get fungot up, but that's all. 00:49:27 fizzie: what other kinds of sequences such as make-vector and make-string. later on 00:51:06 fungot! 00:51:07 olsner: that's one of the google image search, even 00:51:23 Koen_: What's your take on this: If I have a language model trained on the text of a book, does that make it a derived work of this book? If so, would it still qualify as fair use? 00:52:13 ^style discworld 00:52:13 Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) 00:52:20 fungot: 123 00:52:21 int-e: " you've got me there.' she drummed her fingers on the table, chair,' said cohen. 00:53:13 ^style irc 00:53:13 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 00:53:34 mmm, fungot 00:53:34 olsner: but i was under the impression that it just compiles code to sql. " you don't have anything fnord right, then 00:54:18 fungot! 00:54:18 oerjan: there was also a friggin' syntax replacement for c would be inconvenient 00:54:29 The Internet is VDSL2 PTM, with PPPoE over the Ethernet frames that go in PTM. It works when I put the bundled router-modem into "routed" mode (so that it negotiates the PPPoE link), and I've even partially got the 8-IP subnet the ISP assigned kinda-sorta working (the router-modem had a "public subnet" mode, which makes it do some sort of proxyarp trickery, but that means all the public IP ... 00:54:35 ... addresses need to be directly in the Ethernet segment formed by the LAN ports of the router-modem, and with distinct MACs), but it's ugly and wastes a public IP for the router-modem. 00:54:38 oerjan: fungot! 00:54:39 olsner: doesn't chez scheme, and boolean contexts, such as t, notably the fact that i'm using is probably written in c. 00:55:04 int-e: not sure what a language model trained is 00:55:15 Logic says it *should* work just fine if I toggle the router-modem to "bridged" mode, and have my regular Linux box speak PPPoE into the Ethernet interface, but it just doesn't go. 00:55:55 (I've ran the manual "pppoe-discovery" tool and tcpdumped it on the Linux box, and the PPPoE "PADI" packets are going out, but no answers are coming in.) 00:56:27 And the router-modem only has this custom CLI and no way of getting a proper shell (so I could go and see how they've configured it), which is always so infuriating. 00:56:45 all hail fungot, master of fnords 00:56:45 mitchs: the argument in the function itself 00:58:42 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 00:58:42 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:00:31 int-e: If you have an unpruned fixed-length n-gram model of sufficient length that all the counts for the highest-n grams are 1, you can reconstruct the entire book, which is maybe kind of dubious copyrightically. (Of course you normally wouldn't. Especially since fungot doesn't do backoff, so you'd only get verbatim quotes.) 01:00:31 fizzie: and -s restrict that scope 01:15:21 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 01:20:57 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:23:47 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:23:55 -!- trn has joined. 01:24:21 Sometimes in a 6502 code you might not want to use CMP for comparison so you might use EOR instead, such as if you do not want the carry flag to be affected. 01:24:23 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:32:51 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 01:38:53 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:45:01 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:45:01 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 01:45:21 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 01:46:17 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Client Quit). 01:46:35 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:47:07 -!- dianne has joined. 01:47:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:48:18 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:51:40 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 02:00:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:04:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:07:49 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:20:50 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 02:23:44 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:26:42 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 02:26:42 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:28:47 It's possible that I talked about it but never did it 02:29:00 Thinking about it, I more distinctly remember thinking about Deadfish in Tcl 02:29:11 Do ARCFOUR with a (log2(256!)+16) bit key (this number of bits isn't a integer) 02:33:27 -!- rodgort has joined. 02:48:04 god damn it is the return type of these numpy functions documented ANYWHERE 02:48:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:50:24 I have never seen it so I don't know 02:51:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:51:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:51:47 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:54:09 Ohhhh so when I do A * B it tries to do it element wise?!?! of all the crap i have to deal with, matrices that don't multiply right 02:55:31 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: .). 02:58:30 Maybe there is a separate function for matrix multiplication? 02:58:57 Yeah, I have to do np.dot(A,B) which gets pretty ugly 03:10:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:10:31 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 03:11:18 Also conflating dot product with matrix product is... iffy 03:13:23 really v dot u is v matrix product u transpose 03:13:47 er, the opposit 03:14:44 hm _surely_ we already had an ~ATH article? 03:15:59 oren: Yeah, dot doesn't seem right for that 03:19:44 What we really need is a math library based not on matrices but on Tensors 03:20:01 Yes, that would help too, I believe you 03:20:39 hmph maybe not 03:21:52 From Ashes is gorgeous 03:24:09 well even if my code is made ugly by this library, it works at least 03:25:11 which my C neural network code does not 03:25:37 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 03:28:09 ~ATH is conceptually interesting but its syntax is generic 03:30:06 Hmm... would it not be possible to automatically chack obituaries? 03:31:16 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:31:28 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:32:33 Actually, deaths of people would be much easier to check for than animals or objects 03:33:14 Still very hard, but I bet google could do it 03:34:13 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:34:27 death of public decency 03:34:31 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:34:53 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:35:45 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 03:37:54 alternatively, an implementation could just assume all named individuals are alive, and use actuarial tables 03:38:08 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:40:10 -!- dianne has joined. 03:46:14 hap-pi-day 03:49:16 With the proper virtual tables in SQLite you could receive such information (unless it is already in SQLite format in which case you don't need virtual tables); I have written extension to read JSON and RDF Turtle documents as virtual tables, so if it is those formats you can access them in this way. 03:51:58 -!- ^v has joined. 03:53:06 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:53:06 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 03:56:34 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:00:03 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:02:13 But I don't know what format such actuarial tables would be in? 04:03:46 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:05:40 -!- hjulle has joined. 04:09:31 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:15:02 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:17:14 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:17:14 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 04:17:40 some actual format, i should assume. 04:21:07 ah and just as someone wiped ~ATH from wikipedia's esolang page. 04:28:02 Why do you like to define pi (or tau) in terms of geometry instead of in the other way? 04:28:25 zzo38: What other way? Infinite series? 04:29:07 Well, there are several possible other ways, but what I was thinking of is e to power of i times tau makes 1 04:29:27 Being the smallest positive solution 04:29:55 tau = ln(i)*4/i 04:34:22 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:34:42 τ = ln(1)/i 04:35:14 The principal value of ln(1) is 0 04:35:18 hmm, wait why doesn't that work 04:35:26 oh 04:35:34 Branch cut 04:36:57 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:38:06 Greek letters being fullwidth is so inconvenient when the terminal assumes they are half 04:38:08 Zero isn't positive anyways 04:38:38 oren: That's the problem with using Unicode in this way. 04:40:27 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:42:10 -!- L8D has joined. 04:42:43 For a terminal screen such encoding would seem to work better when wide character are 2-bytes long and narrow character are 1-bytes long. 04:43:28 Hmm... what happens if I switch the encoding to Shift-JIS? 04:43:48 Sigh, the correct thing in general is wcswidth. 04:44:10 (tells you the width of a wchar_t string in terminal cells) 04:46:00 Hey that actually works! 04:46:35 I just switch terminal settings to Shift-JIS and bang, correct spacing 04:47:09 Yeah, your terminal and your everything else need to agree on what the charset is for things to work. 04:47:21 (BTW Greek letters are half width normally. :)) 04:48:17 In Shift-JIS they made all two byte characters fullwidth and all one byte characters half-width... I guess for simplicity 04:48:39 oren: Yes, that's a good idea when doing fix-pitch text. 04:49:25 Unicode is good for using to convert between encodings, that you can store them in tables (you can even add new codes if converting characters that aren't in Unicode), but for general purpose works badly for several reasons really and is pretty stupid as far as I am concerned. 04:49:55 zzo38: Unicode is not as complex as you might think. 04:50:14 Though most things that implement it suck at it. 04:51:49 It is not even complete 04:52:46 Complex scripts and ligatures and text direction and so on should belong in the font metrics file, and program that uses it should only read the font metrics file to determine such thing. 04:55:10 The program should only look at, it is trying to render character code 499488291 therefore you have to look up 499488291 in the font metrics file to determine the proper text direction, kerning, ligatures, default line breaking setting, extending into margin, pointer into font glyph file, etc 04:58:09 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 04:58:09 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:01:13 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:01:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:10:48 zzo38: most problems with unicode come from its insisting that you can convert characters from any charset X to unicode and back and not lose anything 05:11:39 oren: That is certainly some of it; as I said, it is even incomplete 05:11:47 (where anything can mean differences only visible to computer and not onscreen) 05:15:05 So, unicode is bugward compatible to the bugs of like 30 charsets, combines 05:15:25 which is why it is so damn buggy 05:15:36 -!- ^v^v has joined. 05:15:57 Either way rendering properties should belong in the metrics file rather than in the program 05:16:20 (Which also has the advantage in case you need to define your own characters) 05:20:06 I'm not sure under what conditions I would be defining my own characters... I guess conlangers would be ahppy? 05:20:20 Yes, that's one use 05:20:51 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:20:51 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 05:24:00 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:24:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:26:29 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:33:40 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:42:20 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:42:20 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 05:56:21 8/k7/P2b2P1/KP1Pn2P/4R3/8/6np/8 White to play and win. 06:04:21 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:07:27 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:07:42 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:07:54 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:11:08 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 06:26:06 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 06:26:07 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 06:29:45 :t confusing 06:29:46 Not in scope: ‘confusing’ 06:49:52 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:51:09 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 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callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 20:46:29 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSleep. 20:52:19 How many esolangs as ARCFOUR been implemented in so far? 20:59:36 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:59:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:02:11 -!- L8D has joined. 21:26:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:27:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:34:57 -!- CADD has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:44:03 -!- boily has joined. 21:45:23 -!- L8D has left. 21:54:02 -!- GeekDude has joined. 22:05:59 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 22:08:25 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:14:28 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:16:32 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:25:16 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:40:02 so, a problem I've come across 22:41:02 I need to transfer files to and from a remote system, but my only connection to it is an ssh connection that goes through multiple levels of terminal multiplexers (screen, tmux and the like) 22:41:16 it's a Linux system with no direct network connectivity, it has a working C compiler but not much else 22:42:28 I've already figured out how to transfer files there (send over a uudecode impl, compile it, then copy-and-paste uucode) 22:42:57 but going the other way is rather harder; terminal multiplexers don't intercept a stream of printable characters you're sending to the inside terminal, but they certainly mess with the stream of characters that comes back 22:44:05 I guess one method that would work would be to give uucode on the way back a screenful at a time (with delays added), then run a vt100 parser on the result after receiving it and translate back into uucode that way 22:44:10 delays would be needed to know where the frames were 22:44:34 Yes that is one way 22:44:46 ais523: can you not just open a nc connection? 22:44:58 But why do you even have such a system? 22:45:09 coppro: the only connection I have to inside this is through multiple layers of terminal multiplexers 22:45:14 ais523: so open a new one 22:45:15 basically it's a case of nested VMs 22:45:39 or is the innermost one not internet-connected? 22:45:40 I think one of them doesn't even have an emulated network card 22:45:45 and is using an emulated serial terminal 22:45:46 oh, fun 22:46:01 yeah, this seemed like a fun enough problem to ask #esoteric about 22:46:08 the solution may well be "change the VM setup somehow" 22:46:22 Yes, if you can change the VM setup, then you probably should 22:46:29 however, I'd like to find a solution under the current parameters just out of intellectual curiosity 22:47:23 Yes; I suppose just telling it to display and then parse the display would probably be the way if without changing the VM. 22:49:21 but what sort of information do we put on the display? can it be done without delays? perhaps not because the terminal emulators might elide everything that's output, but what if they don't? 22:49:31 I'm going to experiment 22:50:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:50:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:53:59 ais523: I've used screen's output logging (C-a H, writes to "screenlog.n") for data transfer (with just "uuencode file" writing to standard output on the "sending" side) but you're certainly right that it's conceivable that some terminal-optimization step somewhere on the path might drop stuff. 22:54:16 fizzie: right, and there's more than one layer of terminal emulator here 22:54:28 I ran `seq 0 10000` and recorded the output 22:54:45 -!- irctc541 has joined. 22:55:03 it sometimes repeats sections, with a bunch of "\1b[4C\r" in between 22:55:38 and ESC [ 4 C is "cursor 4 columns right" 22:56:03 and then at the end it does a "move cursor to top-left" 22:56:08 so yeah, a lot of redundant VT-100 in here 22:56:43 I haven't noticed any omitted numbers though 22:58:26 -!- irctc541 has quit (Client Quit). 22:58:56 A line-oriented framing format (and a suitably slow speed between lines so that you would "see" every line at least once) combined with a "dumb" observer that just looks for the line start/end markers sounds like it might have some chance of working. Though it's certainly not guaranteed. I remember using lynx-in-screen on a slow-ish serial terminal, and it did quite a lot of trickery for ... 22:59:02 ... redraw, including scrolling arbitrary-looking rectangles around to send as little over the wire as possible. 22:59:26 (I don't know where most of that behaviour came from.) 22:59:45 my current plan is to express lines as [sequence number][uucode content] and then strip out all the VT-100 codes 23:00:28 we should be able to detect missing sequence numbers, at least 23:02:54 that's a funny problem. 23:03:09 yep, I thought #esoteric would like it 23:03:13 add a checksum to each line? 23:03:33 could do, although just md5sum on the resulting file would likely be good enough 23:09:22 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 23:38:36 -!- hjulle has joined. 23:45:11 sounds like we need an implementation of "ip over tmuxxers" 23:45:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:54:50 oren: helloren. ip over tmuxxer? 23:56:29 Yes, make up such program 2015-03-15: 00:07:32 boillo 00:17:13 bonsoerjan. 00:18:17 * oerjan was vaguely hoping for oerjour but guesses it's too late 00:19:26 tomorrow morning! don't lose faith! 00:20:13 今ボイリは 00:21:29 すみませんが、ちょっと違います。「ボアリ」です。 00:22:20 oren: actually I was reminded of TCP quite a bit 00:22:29 sequence numbers and checksums and all that 00:22:30 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:28:09 -!- Fleur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:58:42 i may eventually have to learn japanese just to keep up with the channel. 01:05:31 also, i'm with oren on the ip over tmuxxers. 01:06:59 I'm calling this program tmuxip, although it isn't duplex 01:09:22 oerjan: this chännel's lingua franca should be some Norwegian-Japanese pidgin crossover. 01:10:24 NoxJp is this channels OTP 01:11:54 there used to be a norwegian-russian pidgin but i don't think there's a norwegian-japanese one. 01:15:51 Ooh, norwegian has retroflex consonants, cool! 01:16:18 these have to be sacrificed for the greater good. 01:16:41 jeg wakarimasu for lite japansk til å lage en god eksempelsetning desu ka. 01:17:09 both norwegian and japanese have pitch accents, interesting 01:17:27 i read that in the language construction kit recently 01:17:51 Noxjp is definitely this chännel's OTP. incomprehensible, sounds like some Necronomicon juice extract, and has a few å sprinkled in. 01:18:25 * boily is glad to see zompist.com is still alive and as ugly as ever ^^ 01:18:53 boily: many norwegian dialects (including mine) also have a weird kind of retroflex l, i'd say that cannot be sacrificed hth 01:19:36 especially if we use that for both r and l 01:20:40 tdnrh, but for the sake of good international relations I'll let it go. 01:20:57 verly good 01:21:17 holy crap norwegian also has adjectives that change like verbs 01:21:29 oren: um where did you read that 01:22:14 i don't think that is true in any meaningful sense 01:23:12 oh, I see, your verbs don't change by gender but your nounds do? 01:23:18 well duh 01:23:19 adjectives I mean? 01:23:37 yes, gender is for nouns and adjectives 01:23:43 as is definiteness. 01:24:09 hungarian btw, inflects verbs for the definiteness of the object. 01:24:48 the verbs don't even change for plurality? even english does that 01:25:04 no, we lost person and number on verbs long ago 01:25:31 a century or more 01:25:47 but somehow you kept gender agreement on adjectives... 01:26:03 _and_ developed definiteness agreement hth 01:26:10 oh and number too 01:27:22 although it's sort of wishy-washy in that for most adjectives, all forms are the same except for the singular indefinite ones 01:28:37 although "liten" (little, small) has kept an unusual variety of forms, which includes cognates of both en:little and en:small 01:29:31 We don't inflect words too much either. *whistles unconvincingly* 01:29:48 OKAYSSÄ 01:30:21 The vowel disharmony made my left eye hurt. 01:31:30 * boily is glad to see zompist.com is still alive and as ugly as ever ^^ <-- good content doesn't need modern web design. in fact no one does. 01:31:45 oerjan: which case is it again? 01:32:09 fizzie: ÖKÄYSSÄ? 01:32:34 boily: I guess that's all right. 01:32:36 fizzie: i was divided on whether to use -A or -Ä at the end 01:32:42 boily: inessive iirc 01:33:01 Yes. 01:33:05 into the okay? I guess I could go with that. 01:33:14 no, in 01:33:19 aaaaaaaaaaaurgh. 01:33:20 into would be illative 01:33:26 also iirc 01:33:54 all those cases always confuse me. people should stick with verb conjugations; that's much simpler and easier. 01:34:03 mind you i use inessive because it's the one finnish case ending i can easily remember 01:34:47 The Finnish locatives are (I think) generally taught as two groups of three: inessive, elative, illative (the internals) and adessive, ablative, allative (the externals). 01:34:56 norwegian doesn't have much in the way of verb conjugation. certainly even less than english. 01:35:15 blarh I hated french because they have all these conjugations but never bother to actually SAY them, so why do they still WRITE them!?!?!? 01:35:30 fizzie: hungarian has those + an extra group for surfaces hth 01:35:58 oren: we do say them hth 01:38:10 that is, in hungarian you have to decide vaguely whether you're dealing with a point, a surface, or a volume before you choose locative cases. iirc. 01:38:36 je parl tu parl ii parl nu parlaw vu parlay ii parl 01:38:49 only two are in any way differnet 01:38:51 oren: *il 01:39:03 the l isn't actually pronounced 01:39:14 wait, it isn't? 01:39:20 oren: eh??? 01:39:41 also, your “ii” is suspiciously québécois... 01:39:53 I'm from canada... 01:39:55 also the -aw should be nasal 01:40:05 parlaw~ 01:40:32 * boily glares at oren 01:40:52 parlons! with a «on» sound! tsé, messemble, c'pas compliqué! quand même, là là... 01:41:34 In france do they actually say the n? 01:42:07 saying the n isn't the same as using a nasal vowel 01:42:11 their «on» is actually the same. there are differences with «an», and they have mostly merged «in» and «un» together. 01:42:25 un bon vin blanc 01:42:50 u~ bo ve~ bla~ 01:43:28 en god hvitvin hth 01:44:29 /œ̃bɔ̃vɛ̃blæ̃/ vs. /ɛ̃bɔ̃vɛ̃blɑ̃/. 01:44:49 oerjan: Apparently we have a third group of locatives for "state" (translative, essive and exessive, for entering, residing and exiting a particular state), but the exessive only exists in some dialects, and anyway I don't think our Finnish grammar classes really grouped them. 01:45:16 oerjan: Also I think we have some remnants of the Hungarian stuff, applicable to some particular words. Or something like that. 01:45:21 ic 01:45:32 naruhodo 01:46:06 je vois ça. 01:46:30 well i recall reading that the common ancestral language had a lot fewer cases than both hungarian and finnish, so it's not clear what is a "remnant" there... 01:47:15 (something like 6/7, which is about as many as protoindoeuropean i think) 01:47:52 which reminds me that i was going to look up the consensus number of cases in PIE 01:48:20 We should have a holidy called PIE day for confusion purposes 01:48:31 oren: fancy 01:49:24 boily: wait you canadiens say /blæ̃/ ? 01:50:38 Yes, we should have that on the 53rd day of August, because π*e = 8.539734... 01:50:47 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 01:51:05 oerjan: yes? 01:51:07 (And the de-facto π day already follows the ridiculous American month/day/year conventions.) 01:51:29 > exp pi 01:51:30 Ambiguous occurrence ‘pi’ 01:51:30 It could refer to either ‘L.pi’, defined at L.hs:161:1 01:51:30 or ‘GHC.Float.pi’, 01:51:46 * boily mapoles lambdabot 01:51:46 > exp GHC.Float.pi 01:51:46 oerjan: my dad does. I learned in school to say blaw but my dad corrected me with bleh 01:51:46 Not in scope: ‘GHC.Float.pi’ 01:51:49 That would be the EPI day, I think. 01:51:52 boily: fancy 01:51:55 * boily mapoles lambdabot again 01:51:58 @undef 01:51:58 Undefined. 01:52:00 s/eh/ah 01:52:03 > exp pi 01:52:04 23.140692632779267 01:52:12 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:52:13 > pi ^ (exp 1) 01:52:14 Could not deduce (GHC.Real.Integral b0) 01:52:14 arising from a use of ‘GHC.Real.^’ 01:52:14 from the context (GHC.Float.Floating a) 01:52:19 > pi ** (exp 1) 01:52:20 22.45915771836104 01:52:37 hmm... which was it again, the one that hit about 19.999... 01:52:44 -!- ^v^v has joined. 01:52:48 > exp (exp 1 * (ln pi)) 01:52:49 Not in scope: ‘ln’ 01:52:49 Perhaps you meant one of these: 01:52:49 ‘n’ (imported from Debug.SimpleReflect), 01:53:06 > exp pi - pi 01:53:07 19.999099979189474 01:53:17 `thanks fizzie 01:53:18 Thanks, fizzie. Thizzie. 01:53:29 boily: I just googled the corresponding xkcd, to be honest. 01:53:56 (Second hit for "xkcd floating point library".) 01:55:57 rand()*(exp pi - pi), aka 80 01:59:41 also as for days, beware the ides of march 02:00:44 I generally just use a text editor, not an ide, so i'm safe 02:00:51 Beware your own desire to become kind, I'd say. 02:01:02 become King* 02:01:17 become King* 02:01:25 Damn keyboard. 02:02:55 my mouse has begun malfunctioning, which is annoying when it's my method to see if my display has frozen again 02:03:06 mechanical keyboards forevaaaaaaaah!!!!!1!!one!!!11!! 02:07:26 I bought a new mousepad a couple of days ago. It had "works with optical lasers Mice" on it's packedging, all proud and shit. 02:08:29 lol 02:08:29 What are actually the benefits of a mechanical keyboard? 02:09:25 nice solid keys with a long tracking, a keyboard that feels solid beneath your fingers, and snobby hipsterness :P 02:10:16 (also, annoying your coworkers with loud clicks and clacks :D) 02:10:50 Good selling points. 02:15:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:16:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 02:16:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ANAEROBIC CHICKEN). 02:22:51 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 02:30:32 They also can stand up to my rough fingers without breaking 02:31:02 Usually the keyboard breaks first on my laptops, this is unusual 02:39:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:39:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 02:55:59 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:56:39 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 03:05:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:05:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:07:29 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:11:46 so this is what I came up with: http://sprunge.us/IebA 03:11:50 rather inefficient but it seems to work 03:12:55 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:13:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:14:13 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 03:14:21 so this is what I came up with: http://sprunge.us/IebA 03:14:23 rather inefficient but it seems to work 03:14:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:14:28 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to asi523. 03:14:30 -!- asi523 has changed nick to ais523. 03:18:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:18:55 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:31:50 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 03:31:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:34:47 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:35:00 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:42:53 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:43:19 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 03:53:11 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:53:11 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 03:54:18 You posted twice as it turns out 03:56:07 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:56:30 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:02:25 what is that for ais523 04:02:45 zzo38: I wasn't sure if it went through the first time 04:02:59 quintopia: communicating binaries through a terminal multiplexer 04:03:42 to what end? 04:04:48 communicating files to non-networked systems 04:05:01 when the only connection you have goes through both screen /and/ tmux 04:06:27 Is tmux good? I love screen but I only use it for its 'don't die if I lose connection' properties 04:07:20 Sgeo: it's very similar to screen in most respects 04:07:24 probably the interface is a bit nicer 04:07:41 however, going through both screen and tmux is by far easier than trying to go through screen or tmux twice 04:08:01 Though it's not a fair comparison (the only time I used it was a pretty old version), tmux's terminal emulation when I used it was craaap. 04:08:17 i cant imagine such a connection 04:08:22 sounds absurd 04:09:53 quintopia: yes, but I came across one 04:10:02 and asked #esoteric because it was an interesting problem 04:10:14 it's possibly an avoidable problem – we could probably change the setup 04:10:31 but seeing if it was possible without changing the setup captured my interest 04:11:07 Why is it going through both screen and tmux? 04:11:41 it's using tmux as screen, and screen as a serial connection parser 04:12:07 what an idea 04:15:57 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 04:16:04 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:16:11 I feel like I understand screen even less than I did before 04:18:04 I should learn to use screen. 04:23:33 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 04:32:24 Why does my speakers sometimes make extra noise that it isn't supposed to (but usually it doesn't)? 04:34:53 Could be one of a few different things. 04:35:23 Are you in the presence of a strong magnetic field? 04:35:41 I don't think so, but I don't know 04:37:34 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:40:57 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:46:06 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:53:18 -!- g2watson has joined. 04:53:36 screen is working ok! 04:53:49 whoops name wrong 04:53:53 -!- g2watson has changed nick to oren. 04:56:50 Hmm. I'm not familiar with any other programs which use control A as a command, thats convenient 04:58:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:58:53 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 04:59:04 * Sgeo is in the presence of a few magnetic fields, h2 04:59:05 h2h 04:59:23 -!- ais523 has quit. 04:59:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 05:02:01 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:02:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:03:13 -!- oren has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:07:59 A bit late to post this, but http://www.cadaeic.net/cadenza.htm 05:11:07 -!- g2watson has joined. 05:18:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:19:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 05:22:05 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 05:22:05 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:27:20 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 05:30:32 /quit 05:30:42 -!- g2watson has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:43:53 -!- Patashu has joined. 05:47:04 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:57:59 -!- g2watson has joined. 05:59:42 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:00:09 -!- ^v^v has joined. 06:05:51 [wiki] [[Condit]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42127&oldid=23186 * 86.164.23.31 * (-20) /* External resources */ remove "no longer working" since the link is valid 06:05:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 06:05:57 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 06:16:34 that's rare, for a link to start working again 06:22:45 normally when a link goes dead either the server is gone or the website has been reorganized 06:25:38 -!- g2watson has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:26:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:27:35 Well, my link is also broken, but not due to any reorganization or server is gone, but because the DNS is pointing to the wrong address. 06:27:59 -!- b_jonas has joined. 06:29:22 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:29:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:29:55 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:30:35 -!- oren has joined. 06:31:25 hello, all 06:32:04 b_jó napot 06:33:17 oerjan: What does that mean? 06:33:37 Can you figure out all of my three Magic: the Puzzling so far? 06:33:47 zzo38: b_good day 06:34:57 no, I think I only solved the first one 06:34:59 are there even three? 06:35:07 Yes, I made three 06:35:26 the first one is the one with that sea monster, one is the subgame Sharcantspell one 06:35:43 http://24.207.84.223/textfile/miscellaneous/puzzle.1 and puzzle.2 and puzzle.3 06:36:11 wasn't it at http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/ 06:36:25 O, yes, that's correct; I gave the wrong address 06:36:29 Thank you 06:36:50 Although the DNS is broke so type http://24.207.84.223/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.1 and so on 06:38:20 See if you can figure even a little bit about the second and third one 06:39:06 I think I figured a little bit, namely that the Wishes are probably used from the subgame. 06:39:42 Yes, but now you have figure it out more 06:53:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:53:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:56:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Argh). 06:59:41 Are there any processes on Windows that renames files to m and then a number? 07:11:25 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 07:11:33 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:14:36 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:16:18 -!- FreeFull has joined. 07:19:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 07:19:33 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 07:26:45 Someone else did figure out all of my puzzles 07:26:49 But now see if you know too 07:29:25 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:29:37 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:53:29 [wiki] [[Brainfuck bitwidth conversions]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42128&oldid=40652 * Rdebath * (-3) Sigh 08:58:09 -!- copumpkin has joined. 09:02:45 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:34:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:35:06 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 09:51:31 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 10:00:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:01:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:01:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 10:01:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:03:15 fungot: hmm 10:03:16 int-e: creates a vector of that length would be kept alive for running the whole scheme image, not when they are 10:16:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:16:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:30:43 -!- boily has joined. 10:32:24 @tell oerjan Good moerjaning! 10:32:24 Consider it noted. 10:35:58 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 10:37:20 -!- irctc997 has joined. 10:39:16 -!- irctc997 has quit (Client Quit). 10:46:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:52:13 good moaning 10:53:59 bon melliottin! 10:54:50 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:54:55 melliottin sounds like some kind of substance 10:56:08 "The word 'mellow' wandered around in his mind in search of something to connect with." 10:56:39 bint-e matin? 11:28:21 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:37:57 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INFORMED CHICKEN). 11:38:30 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 11:42:26 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:42:43 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:04:21 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:15:38 -!- hjulle has joined. 12:42:19 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:09:13 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 13:13:34 what 13:14:01 Terry Pratchett? but he was so young 13:15:24 Surely you must have heard of his Alzheimer's disease. 13:16:02 yes, but still 13:16:26 sad 13:17:13 he's going straight to my list of Notable deaths of this century, right now, no waiting time needed for me to consider if he's significant enough in this case 13:18:41 done. he's 20th. 13:19:00 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:B_jonas#Notable_deaths_of_this_century 13:20:39 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 13:33:45 -!- Mossyfunk has joined. 13:39:38 -!- Mossyfunk has left ("Leaving"). 13:57:41 -!- Koen_ has joined. 14:01:59 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:06:33 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:13:52 int-e, though it didn't seem bad enough to kill him 14:14:43 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:15:10 -!- ^v^v has joined. 14:16:17 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:20:05 -!- FallNWolf has joined. 14:30:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:32:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:38:47 Phantom_Hoover: Who knows. I've read that it was an atypical form of Alzheimer's which affects the back of the brain (and hence, motor skills) first; it's also closer to the pons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pons that regulates breathing... 14:39:15 i guess 14:39:41 meh, I don't do distance medical diagnosis. I'm just sad he's passed. 14:40:47 well it's significant because he was very vocal about his intention to die on his own terms, before the disease took his mind 14:40:53 It's not a diagnosis, it's speculation. 14:41:23 but according to his publisher it wasn't suicide, assisted or otherwise 15:02:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:02:48 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:07:08 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:07:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:08:24 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:08:50 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:10:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:15:17 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:19:31 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:21:54 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:22:14 -!- MoALTz has joined. 15:36:16 b_jonas: the list of "redirects from given names" on wikipedia seems to contain a lot of japanese names 15:38:23 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 16:47:37 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:47:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:48:44 -!- arjanb has joined. 17:06:37 -!- GeekDude has joined. 17:07:25 Says something about the cost of public transportation here: my bank's fraud detection systems declined my purchase of an annual ticket due to the "suspiciously high value". 17:10:08 Where you at? 17:15:52 London. 17:16:10 London, UK, to be more precise. I guess there are a lot of Londons in the states? There usually are. 17:17:33 There is a London in Canada 17:18:43 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 17:19:14 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 17:20:57 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:26:55 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 17:27:17 London england is better than the one in canada tho 17:27:39 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hardiholpus * New user account 17:31:36 how much is an annual pass? 17:32:42 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 17:34:44 quintopia: For zones 1-2, it's 1284 GBP. 17:34:59 (Around $1900 in American terms.) 17:39:39 hmm. not that bad really... 17:40:18 so anyone have any idea why i can't open a chrome browser window. i can see in the task manager it is running, but there is no visible window. reinstalling doesn't help. 17:43:02 Well, it's worse than in Finland; an annual "local" ticket ("zone 1") is only 546.80 EUR, and even the entire metro area is just 1086.40 EUR. (The London one goes up to 3336 GBP for zones 1-9, but to be fair it's a much bigger system.) 17:43:27 Do you have a two/tree screen set up quintopia? 17:43:52 not that i know of, though i'm not sure how to check 17:44:38 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:44:52 Nah, if there's only one screen in front of you then you probably have just the one screen setup then. 17:46:53 There pver a thousand people in #Haskell... how is that possible? 17:48:13 maybe it's a strange attractor. 17:48:18 -!- dianne has joined. 17:48:37 it's also a very functional IRC channel 17:48:56 .... 17:50:21 ??? 17:50:28 int-e: i don't know if i'd put it in that category 17:51:00 Despite the pun, I'm serious. The people there are helpful and overall very resistant to being trolled. 17:53:52 no they're not 17:54:09 unless it's gotten a lot better recently 17:58:11 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 18:00:21 obviously this worked better when there were only 300 people 18:08:23 -!- TieSleep has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:09:26 -!- GeekDude has joined. 18:11:26 This is the most idiotic piece of sycophancy I have ever read. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2015/03/14/tim-cook-apple-changing-the-world/ 18:12:31 thanks for linking it! now we can all feel that way too 18:13:28 haha okay this is great though 18:13:37 god bless the usa 18:20:18 isn't the latest line of apple products more overpriced and underperforming than the last line up? 18:20:42 elliott__: you pronounced murrica wrong 18:20:53 idk, let me get my objective apple flamebait calculator out 18:20:53 It doesn't take a Jobs to understand the necessity of basic iteration 18:21:11 back. it says if this is a discussion that ends up happening I'll hate everyone 18:21:18 . o O ( What does Apple sell? At a fundamental level, Apple sells change. -- Small and smaller change... shiny coins... ) 18:35:41 -!- adu has joined. 18:43:26 blah, they're changing the world, except Japan, where I didn't see a single Apple product the entire time I was there 18:44:30 Japan is a magical land, where features phones still live. 18:44:39 features phones? 18:45:35 non-smart phones, with like, buttons 18:48:14 Essentially japan is supposed to be famouse for their technology, but their use of technology is very... conservative, as it were. 18:49:23 They use windows XP a LOT, flip phones, fax machines, and CASH! 18:50:12 I paid for my hotel with a giant wad of Yen, apparently that is the normal way 18:57:04 paying for bus tickets was too much for me. 18:57:08 Also I paid for some other stuff with a wire transfer. A *wire transfer*. The people at my bank were kind of... amused 18:57:46 I like cash. But it's all reversed; paying when leaving the bus, taking care of one's own change... 18:58:47 Odd devices that eat both tickets and cash. 19:00:08 (From what I could see, the coins get sorted, while the tickets are shred to pieces.) 19:00:57 this is interesting to me, given I'm visiting Japan in May 19:02:53 To even take out cash, your cards most likely will only work at 7/11 or at the post office (yuubinkyoku) 19:03:13 hmm last time they didn't work anywhere at all 19:04:03 thanks for the translation. that will help me with my upcoming plan (keikaku) 19:04:12 Also, only Visa really works... 19:05:15 " All Maestro-branded EMV cards issued outside of the Asia/Pacific region are able to withdraw currency at Seven Bank and AEON Bank ATMs" -- this seems to be new. 19:05:51 Oh? Hmm, seems they are improving the system 19:06:11 -!- _1_a1exander114 has joined. 19:06:30 -!- _1_a1exander114 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:08:24 elliott: keikaku doori. muhuhahahaha 19:09:38 (I lied. The last time I was there, AEON bank would accept the card, but their ATMs were hard to find and I didn't make use of them.) 19:11:51 http://www.mastercard.co.jp/personal/atm-notification.html looks official enough, but is there a date? 19:21:42 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 19:29:36 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 19:29:55 I think also in Japan a lot of compressed archives are .lzh although I can still use them on my computer because 7-Zip can open such file. 19:32:24 oren, int-e: we here also use cash, and some people like me also use phones with buttons that let me type without having to look at the screen constantly 19:32:52 and that don't require me to pay attention to software updates and disabling internet use and all kinds of nonsense I don't need to just, you know, phone people 19:33:20 but yes, getting up the bus on the back and getting off at the front and paying when getting off is crazy 19:33:26 that would never work here 19:34:08 I also prefer to use cash when paying for stuff, as much as possible; I don't have any credit card 19:34:39 I mix cash and debit card. But in many places here, you can't pay with a card at all. 19:35:05 Whereas in Sweden you can pay with a card basically _anywhere_ 19:41:02 I've used cash here in London exactly twice now, in the about 2.5 months I've been here. 19:41:19 fizzie: I see 19:41:59 Once when opening a bank account, to give it a nonzero balance, though I guess there was no particular reason for that; and the other day when I couldn't remember the PIN for the debit card, because of jetlag and not having used it at all during the two weeks in the states. 19:42:16 fizzie: has there been anything you didn't buy because you didn't have enough cash with you, or that you asked someone else to pay for you with cash? 19:42:34 No. 19:42:38 ok 19:43:19 [wiki] [[Brainfuck bitwidth conversions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42129&oldid=42128 * Rdebath * (+3663) Some expansion and alternatives. 19:43:41 I was in Sweden only for a week. I've seen only one place that required cash (as opposed to card), namely some public toilet. My brother is living there and he says that's true in general. 19:44:18 I think vending machines in general in Finland at least used to be cash-only. Though maybe that has changed. And there aren't that many of them. 19:44:39 Last time I was at the Helsinki Airport, I did buy a drink from an airport vending machine with a credit card. 19:44:48 But airports are special. 19:44:53 Of course for vending machine operators, cash is a burden. 19:45:13 You can pay with a mobile phone (by sending a SMS) in many things there these days. 19:45:19 possible 19:45:19 But I think that generally costs more than cash. 19:45:32 So from what I can see here (Austria), there are more vending machines that accept cards but not cash than vice versa. 19:45:53 If memory serves, the soda vending machines at the university took something like 1.60 EUR in coins, or 1.89 EUR with SMS. 19:46:11 Most vending machines here are cash only, and more than half are coin only. There are some new ones that also accept card, most importantly the new ones that sell public transport tickets and passes, when they work. 19:46:27 Also I feel strange for not paying anything for food at work. 19:46:58 Many places accept both debit cards and cash; credit cards are somewhat less popular. And some places (bars, a few small shops) don't accept debit cards either. 19:47:20 AIUI, in Finland it's not even taxationally possible to offer completely free lunches. Or at least very difficult. 19:47:30 There used to be a few vending machines that worked with phone cards, as an experiment, but they disappeared as most phones accepting phone cards have disappeared. Strantely, there are and were no public payphones that accept both coins and cards here. 19:48:25 I think there may be some vending machines that work with SMS, I'm not sure. You can buy parking tickets with SMS though. 19:48:57 I've never paid anything by SMS. 19:49:00 fizzie: hmm 19:49:16 int-e: I don't think I have either. I have paid with phone card a few times. 19:49:39 For soda. 19:50:18 My wife's place had subsidized lunch prices in the company cafeteria, and you could "pay" with the employee badge and it'd auto-deduct from salary, which I think was a reasonably common policy. 19:50:37 that's okay-ish. 19:51:07 And probably almost every workplace cafeteria has a separate (cheaper) employee price. But from what people have told me, the price can't be 0. 19:51:16 (-ish because the employer shouldn't really know how much I pay in the cafeteria) 19:52:43 fizzie: cheaper employee price makes sense 19:52:47 I wonder what Google does in Finland. They've got that data center, and I think a tiny sales office in Helsinki. 19:53:43 fizzie: could they just ask a very cheap nominal price instead of zero? or is that also banned? 19:53:52 for employees I mean 19:53:59 I don't know. All I know about this is hearsay. 19:55:42 or, say, sell a monthly dinner subscription to employees for chea 19:55:49 I don't know if it can be zero, but probably it shouldn't be zero, although it shouldn't be a problem to just decrease the price for employees. 19:56:00 (a horn of plenty (0:30)) 19:56:13 ((0:31) in some months) 19:56:35 YAFGC ... "whoops" indeed. (Tee hee!) 19:59:30 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 20:00:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:03:00 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:04:16 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 20:11:06 [wiki] [[Turing Script]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42130&oldid=42117 * 72.74.32.143 * (+57) 20:14:49 [wiki] [[Turing Script]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42131&oldid=42130 * 72.74.32.143 * (+22) 20:16:26 [wiki] [[Turing Script]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42132&oldid=42131 * 72.74.32.143 * (+1) 20:17:59 [wiki] [[Turing Script]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42133&oldid=42132 * 72.74.32.143 * (+0) 20:23:54 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:28:27 -!- olsner has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:50:00 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:00:26 -!- Vorpal has joined. 22:15:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:16:33 -!- olsner has joined. 22:29:10 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:29:37 -!- ^v^v has joined. 22:38:31 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:41:49 Is it possible that the clock set incorrectly causes HTTPS to stop working sometimes? 22:44:00 zzo38, if it is way off you could get certificate validation errors. You would need at least several days off, but it would still be rather unlikely. If it is years off (especially in the future) you will run into issues yes 22:44:50 If we are talking about seconds or minutes: then no 22:45:01 not as far as I know at least 22:45:50 I am about ten minutes off 22:46:18 Well, you should sync your clock still, but even so I don't think that would cause issues with https no 22:46:26 Some wikis force HTTPS even though I don't want it, and this causes some problems 22:46:44 It would break running irc servers (which need to be synced within seconds) 22:47:19 My IRC server isn't part of a larger IRC network, so isn't as much problem 22:47:37 Still, why run it 10 minutes off? 22:47:48 Why not just sync with ntp? 22:48:09 TLS handshake includes timestamps (in seconds) from both ends, but I don't think minutes should really break it. 22:48:23 (Also apparently the TLS 1.3 draft drops those.) 22:48:25 fizzie, it does? To prevent replay attacks? 22:48:51 I will fix the time 22:49:04 Could be. Although I think it has enough nonces in order to not need time. 22:49:09 Hm 22:49:26 -!- Fleur has joined. 22:49:35 But, what is the correct time anyways? What daytime server may I connect to? 22:49:50 pool.ntp.org is the usual ntp server 22:50:02 daytime server I don't know what you mean by 22:50:46 Daytime is the thing that runs in port 'daytime'. 22:51:49 Sends out an ASCII date in an abritrary format when connected to. 22:52:18 "There is no specific syntax for the daytime. It is recommended that it be limited to the ASCII printing characters, space, carriage return, and line feed. The daytime should be just one line." (RFC 867) 22:52:26 -!- boily has joined. 22:52:58 I found one 22:53:16 fizzie, That is the most underspecified crap of a non-joke RFC I have seen 22:53:25 Worse than the IRC RFC 22:53:53 It's kind of meant for humans. 22:54:25 RFC 868 describes the machine-readable counterpart. 22:55:20 I don't get why zzo38 isn't just using ntp though? 22:55:32 I'm not surprised, really. 22:55:35 There are also other chat protocols tham IRC but I have looked and don't like it much, and I think IRC is more better 22:55:52 Vorpal: I don't have a NTP client, also apparently they require a password? 22:56:31 Err no? 22:57:08 Even windows has a built in ntp client I believe in the time and date settings 22:57:26 I just used the TIME command to set the time though 22:57:31 It doesn't work very well (it syncs quite rarely), but it is still something 22:58:49 Good thing you talked about NTP, though, made me realize I should drop off the former ISP's time server from the list. 22:59:29 heh 22:59:49 fizzie, I used ptp recently, because ntp didn't keep the clocks in sync well enough 23:00:04 The router-modem my current ISP gave me has uk.pool.ntp.org and time.nist.gov configured as time sources by default. 23:00:19 I just switch to pool.ntp.org normally 23:00:32 uk.pool.ntp.org should work too 23:00:50 I believe pool without any country prefix is geodns-ed anyway 23:02:12 Hm how do I see what kernel module is handling a certain network interface? 23:02:20 lspci doesn't help, it is not a PCI device 23:02:35 Nor does lsusb help of course (not an USB device) 23:02:41 I'm guessing sysfs. 23:02:49 Something in /sys/class/net/$interface/ maybe. 23:03:58 xen:vif apparently 23:04:00 Okay 23:04:13 So ethtool probably won't work 23:04:48 Apparently the source of the official UK time (the National Physical Laboratory) runs public NTP servers (ntp[12].npl.co.uk) too. 23:05:12 Hm my desktop network interface support PTP hardware clock 23:05:13 cool 23:05:22 Don't have a use for it though 23:06:29 I almost ended up connecting two devices with three parallel Ethernet links the other day, for really stupid reasons. 23:09:34 thtahttah tad tod eodseonse'nst'n t's tos uosnuodnu dnt dot oot oob oab dabdad 23:10:14 it looks like we're breaking up I can hardly make out what you say 23:10:25 It wouldn't have been for anything smart like load-balancing/bundling. 23:10:32 > let s = "that doesn't sound too bad" in concat $ transpose [s,' ':s,' ':' ':s] -- I didn't actually type that. 23:10:33 "t ht ahttah tad tod eodseonse'nst'n t's tos uosnuodnu dnt dot oot oob oab ... 23:10:41 fizzie, what was it for then? 23:11:42 or perhaps I should write it as concat . transpose . take 3 . iterate (' ':) $ s. 23:12:20 int-e: kinda reminds me of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Truth-machine#Glypho 23:12:38 Vorpal: I'll try to make a long story short. My new ISP gave me a /29 IPv4 subnet, and a router with an integrated modem; they talk PPPoE over PTM-mode VDSL2. The "standard" configuration of having their router-modem terminate the PPPoE works, but they use some proxyarp stuff (because the PPP link negotiates a public IP inside the /29, and the router has to forward stuff to the rest of the ... 23:12:44 ... hosts), and initially it seemed like it'd require distinct MAC addresses for any distinct IP's. Since my own Linux router-box had four Ethernet interfaces, plugging three of them into the router-modem was one of the workarounds I was considering. 23:13:01 Vorpal: Later it turned out that it doesn't require distinct MACs, and I was probably just messing something else up. 23:13:53 fizzie, you could also solve that using some bridges and promisc mode perhaps? 23:14:02 Or macvlan devices. 23:14:22 I'm not familiar with those, but sounds reasonable based on the name 23:14:31 thtahta td odeosens'nt' ts osuonudn dt otoo ob abdad -- I guess the two list version is already bad enough. 23:14:37 The setup I *wanted* to make was to have the router-modem in pure "bridged" mode, and have the Linux box terminate the PPPoE connection, but for some reason I've just been unable to make that work. 23:15:18 It's one of these "real Busybox shell is too dangerous so we'll just provide a custom CLI" devices, so I can't peek into how they've configured PPPoE. 23:15:42 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 23:15:58 fizzie, hm with macwlan doesn't the interface still need to run in promisc mode? 23:16:10 To not filter the mac addresses at hardware levek 23:16:12 level* 23:16:15 I guess, but I think that happens automatically. 23:16:40 Right 23:16:59 Back in Finland I kinda-sorta used the "some bridges" mode to solve a different but analogous problem. 23:17:28 (The ISP there allocated all addresses strictly over DHCP, and you need distinct MACs to get multiple IPs requested out of a DHCP server.) 23:21:09 Now I'm not sure whether I should debug the "Linux server as PPPoE endpoint" issue more, since what I have now mostly works, and the only drawbacks seem to be slight feeling of inelegance, and the fact that one public IP is "wasted" on the router-modem. (But I don't need that many anyway.) 23:26:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:28:35 I 'I m'I m'g mog iogniogni gnt got ott oat latkla kll kil kileki ekt eht ihtsih sie sxe cxelcxulcsulisuvisevilevyle ylf yrf orfmor mon mon won woo wno .no.n. 23:29:40 Nah, I can do better. 23:29:44 I I'I'm'm m g gogoioiningng g t toto o t tatalalklk k l lilikikeke e t ththihisis s e exexcxclclulususisivivevelelyly y f frfroromom m n nonowow w o onon.n.. 23:31:39 nice. 23:31:42 Annoying thing: "adb shell ls ..." for some reason uses "\r\n" as the newline. 23:32:04 @messages 23:32:48 @tell boily And a good boiling to you 23:32:48 Consider it noted. 23:33:02 chicken soup? 23:33:12 POSSIBLY 23:33:34 PERHAPS 23:33:43 @clear-massages 23:33:43 Messages cleared. 23:33:57 hellørjan hth 23:34:18 -!- int-e has left ("POTENTIALLY POLLUTED POULTRY"). 23:34:18 -!- int-e has joined. 23:34:21 * boily mapoles tswett back into a coherent reality 23:34:24 k/ /ki ikc bananananasty ststswewettttt 23:35:44 ITYM / /k/kikicickckbkbabanan n n nanasaststyty y t tstswswewetettttt HTH 23:36:05 int-e: i dunno, no one told me the rules 23:36:21 > let s = "some rules" in concat $ transpose [s,' ':s,s] 23:36:22 "s sosomomeme e r rurululelesess" 23:37:34 > let s = "nonmonogamous" in concat $ transpose [s,' ':s,s] 23:37:36 "n nonononmnmomonononogogagamamomouoususs" 23:37:36 sosomo-meme 23:37:48 > let s = "onomatopoeia" in concat $ transpose [s,' ':s,s] 23:37:49 "o onononomomamatatotopopopoeoeieiaiaa" 23:38:09 f fafanancncycyy 23:38:33 O ononono momamata totopopopo eoeiei aiaa. 23:38:55 good night 23:39:09 I I I r reregegrgreretet t n nonotoththihiningng.g.. 23:39:23 -!- G33kDude has joined. 23:40:54 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:40:56 -!- G33kDude has changed nick to GeekDude. 23:50:44 Old McDonal had a farm, O ononono momamata totopopopo eoeiei aiaa ♪ 23:53:10 > let s = "O ononono momamata totopopopo eoeiei aiaa." in concat $ transpose [s,' ':s,s] 23:53:11 "O O O o ononononononononono o m momomomamamamamatatata a t tototototopopopo... 23:53:20 meh. too long. 23:53:29 Was there, perchance, on this farm, a c cocowoww ? 23:54:52 probably a c chchickicknenn? 23:57:50 Oh, right, this is even channel-relevant. 23:57:51 As seen in the Computer History Museum, their big programming language timeline poster: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20150315-intercal.jpg 23:59:27 clearly that is missing Feather 23:59:31 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20150315-intercal_full.jpg is the whole thing. 23:59:41 It's missing many things. I think INTERCAL was the only esolang that made the cut. 2015-03-16: 00:00:13 I wonder what that looping edge is supposed to indicate 00:00:29 I think it's a vague "come from" joke. 00:00:35 But I could be wrong. 00:00:57 thanks, it's a possibility 00:01:15 haskell seems stuck in 1990 00:01:57 Yes, it didn't even have an arrow going off the right edge, like other "live" languages. 00:02:06 Like PHP. 00:02:16 and perl 00:02:25 i was wondering about that. 00:02:54 otoh that chart doesn't really go up to the haskell renessance 00:03:19 *ai 00:03:54 J also goes nowhere. 00:04:01 rainessence. 00:04:17 And the same with SQL, which certainly is still in use. 00:04:18 ocaml also stops abruptly. Lua, too. Dead ends like D carry on ... weird. 00:04:34 Yes I still use SQL too 00:04:51 MATLAB also exists as an individual node in there. So maybe it's not a very consistent chart. 00:05:00 int-e: it's a zeerust diagram 00:05:36 -!- chaosagent has joined. 00:05:46 @google "zeerust diagram" 00:05:48 http://www.abccrusher.com/articles/pemasok-pasir-dalam-nairobi.html 00:05:48 Title: pemasok pasir dalam nairobi - pemasok penghancur batu 00:06:19 > let s = "pemasok pasir dalam nairobi" in concat $ transpose [s,' ':s,s] 00:06:20 "p pepememamasasosokok k p papasasisirir r d dadalalalamam m n nanaiairiroro... 00:06:40 The official semantics of the arrows is "head was influenced by tail", so possibly the "live" ones are those which the chartmaker thinks will still influence other languages in the future. 00:08:06 a dark future, obviously 00:10:08 ^help 00:10:08 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 00:10:27 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:11:11 ^def rreree bf ,.[.>,.<.>]. 00:11:11 Defined. 00:11:49 ^rreree to be or not to be 00:11:49 ttoto o b bebe e o oror r n nonotot t t toto o b bebe 00:13:13 ^def rreree bf ,.[.>,.<.>] 00:13:13 Defined. 00:15:18 ^rreree My hovercraft is full of eels? 00:15:18 MMyMy y h hohovoveverercrcrcrarafaftft t i isis s f fufulullll l o ofof f e eeeelelsls?s? 00:15:34 wait. wait wait wait wait wait. 00:16:04 hohovoveverercrcrcrarafaftft 00:16:18 ^rreree æđæe¶→đæߢ“♥ 00:16:19 ææĦđđÑææeee¶¶→ĒđđÑæææßߟ¢¢“♥ 00:16:37 FUNGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT! >_< 00:16:44 fungot: welcome back! 00:16:44 boily: when i go home, there'll be hardly any more effort spent on the fnord 00:16:51 ^def rreree bf ,.[.>>,[.<<.>>>]<]<. 00:16:51 Defined. 00:16:57 ^rreree re 00:16:57 rreree 00:17:00 ^rreree meow 00:17:00 mmemeoeowoww 00:17:01 boily is out of the loop 00:17:05 ^rreree meow Hello! 00:17:05 mmemeoeowow w H HeHelellllolo!o!! 00:17:18 there, now it repeats the last letter three times, too, just as it should 00:17:46 oerjan: eh? 00:18:01 ^rreree loopyloop 00:18:01 lloloooopopypylyloloooopopp 00:18:22 ^rreree 00:18:25 ^rreree a 00:18:25 aaa 00:18:27 ^rreree ab 00:18:27 aababb 00:18:31 ^rreree æ 00:18:31 ææ 00:18:36 ^rreree ææ 00:18:37 æææææ 00:18:39 ^rreree æææ 00:18:39 ææææææææ 00:18:41 ^rreree æææ« 00:18:41 æææææææ榫« 00:18:45 ^rreree æ«“ĸß 00:18:45 æ榫«“Ĝĸĸøßß 00:18:57 We can see what sort of new unicode characters it can synthesise 00:19:03 ^rreree €€ 00:19:04 €€ 00:19:05 ^rreree €æ 00:19:06 €ìææ 00:19:08 ^rreree €« 00:19:09 €¬«« 00:19:11 ^rreree €» 00:19:11 €¬»» 00:19:17 ^rreree »£ 00:19:17 »»»££ 00:19:21 ^rreree »€ 00:19:21 »»€ 00:19:24 ^rreree »€æ 00:19:24 »»€ìææ 00:19:30 ^rreree “« 00:19:31 “œ«« 00:19:36 ^rreree “«¢ 00:19:36 “œ«««¢¢ 00:19:39 ^rreree «¢ 00:19:39 «««¢¢ 00:19:42 ^rreree ¢« 00:19:42 ¢¢¢«« 00:19:43 FreeFull: you do know that fungot answer private messages, don't you? 00:19:43 int-e: i'ts not xs fault that x is getting modified in place. i'm sure in the end 00:19:46 Sorry 00:19:54 Got carried away 00:20:13 And very well said, fungot 00:20:14 FreeFull: or he could call a halting program an optimisation of the above :) could you write an interpreter and i need to 00:20:24 oerjan: re: eh? 00:21:22 boily: you've apparently just noticed fungot's return hth 00:21:22 oerjan: everyone does webprogramming in scheme then. as you might notice that i now have fnord/ views/ etc data structures 00:21:51 oerjan: yes. I kind of seriously brainlagged there. 00:21:58 fungot: don't worry, I still love you. 00:21:59 boily: you pass the cdr to the needed place, they're capable of? i bet i could implement a posn with a list... 00:22:33 ^def rreree bf ,..>,[.<.>.>,]<. 00:22:33 Defined. 00:23:09 int-e: that's still not the original rule you gave 00:23:48 oerjan: the original rule was flawed; the extra ' ' was a wart to make transpose work without too many hassles. 00:23:54 oh. 00:24:08 ^rreree abcd 00:24:08 aababcbcdcdd 00:24:55 int-e: but your new rule reverses the role of the previous and next character 00:25:27 > let s = "abcd" in concat $ transpose [s,' ':s,s] 00:25:28 "a ababcbcdcdd" 00:25:43 -!- chaosagent has quit (Quit: Bye.). 00:25:48 no? if you drop the space, that's what you get. 00:25:56 * oerjan confused 00:26:46 ^rreree abc 00:26:46 a ababcbcc 00:26:56 oh i see, it's actually _ambiguous_ how to split it up 00:27:06 you have bcbc in there 00:27:24 ^rreree abc 00:27:24 a ababcbc c 00:27:39 and it's not given whether the first or the last letter should be left out 00:28:05 I don't follow. 00:28:18 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: zzz). 00:28:41 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:28:53 you can analyze it either as a,bab,cbc,dcd,d or as aba,bcb,cdc,dd 00:29:01 In my mind it's "links" shaped like a a a or b b b that are hooked together: a abab b etc. 00:30:46 in any case I like that brainfuck code, it's surprisingly short :) 00:30:51 and when you removed the "a ", it looked to me like you had changed from the former to the latter 00:31:07 but I didn't, I only removed the space. 00:31:19 anyway. 00:31:32 ^rreree some regrets 00:31:32 ssosomomeme e r reregegrgreretetstss 00:31:38 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 00:38:24 ^bf ++. 00:38:24 00:38:44 ^bf ++++++++++. 00:38:44 . 00:41:47 -!- Fleur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:43:22 ^def rerere bf ,.>,.<.>>,[.<.<.>>>,]<.<.>. 00:43:22 Defined. 00:43:36 ^rerere back to the roots 00:43:36 babcabkca kct kot ott oht eht ehr eor oortoostosts 00:44:43 ^rerere re 00:44:43 rerere 00:44:52 * oerjan finally got that 00:45:10 (that's more or less the version before tswett's improvement) 00:51:22 int-e: i wonder if whoever asked the adventurers to get the hand of aliam did so to indirectly free ranna. 00:52:27 i do suspect the succubi might want that, too 00:53:05 also, i wonder if i've seen any drow missing a hand around... 00:54:22 well, excluding wolf, who may have lost one temporarily, or was that only glon... 00:55:45 oerjan: Looking for an absurd outcome, I'm hoping that the hand ends up with Captain Fang. 00:56:27 he and dewcup should meet up some time 00:56:59 tee hee 00:58:39 unless the concentration of chaos would destroy the universe. 01:03:07 http://yafgc.net/comic/0463-drow-ire/ both wolf and glon 01:05:16 destroying the Universe sounds fun. 01:05:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INVERSE CHICKEN). 01:06:00 boily escaped just as i was about to test whether he's a succubus. 01:06:18 or is that succuba 01:06:31 ^rreree a succubus 01:06:31 aa a s susucuccccucubububusus s 01:07:23 oh i'm thinking of incubus 01:15:08 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 01:28:56 -!- crisus has joined. 01:31:31 -!- Frooxius has joined. 01:34:36 My improvement? 01:47:17 -!- hjulle has joined. 01:53:26 it seems that CODEGATE 2015 had a problem ("oemu") that the breakthrough requires writing a shell code in subleq 02:03:38 -!- chaosagent has joined. 02:12:33 huh somehow rebooting made chrome work again. okay! 02:18:27 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:57:17 When will they make an inkjet printer that doesn't need its ink shaken 02:59:01 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:06:56 why is that a problem anyway? most printers are fully capable of shaking their own ink 03:07:33 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42134&oldid=42091 * SuperJedi224 * (+20) 03:53:19 -!- chaosagent has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:01:17 -!- mitchs_ has joined. 04:03:49 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:03:55 -!- mitchs has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:11:28 quintopia: well, the printer in question was printing entirely blank sheets, until I took out the ink, shook it, and put it back in 04:13:08 huh 04:13:11 never had that problem 04:24:47 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:32:45 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 05:37:27 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:59:45 -!- fractal has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:22:15 -!- fractal has joined. 06:43:08 -!- fractal has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:45:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Argh). 06:55:47 -!- fractal has joined. 07:05:56 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 07:31:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:33:34 -!- fractal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 07:33:44 [wiki] [[Taktentus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42135&oldid=41986 * 80.53.184.190 * (+32) !* -- 07:35:40 [wiki] [[Taktentus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42136&oldid=42135 * 80.53.184.190 * (-1) /* Syntax */ 07:42:00 [wiki] [[Taktentus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42137&oldid=42136 * 80.53.184.190 * (+18) /* Examples */ 07:45:41 -!- fractal has joined. 08:29:07 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:29:08 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:45:56 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:46:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:48:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:02:47 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:02:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:08:09 https://github.com/FMNSSun/ESOSC/blob/master/ESOSC-2014-D6.TXT fwiw 09:08:58 @messages-loud 09:08:58 You don't have any messages 09:09:40 -!- gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:16:04 -!- gde33 has joined. 09:22:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:22:40 uw. that should be https://github.com/FMNSSun/ESOSC/blob/master/ESOSC-2015-D6.TXT 09:22:44 :) 09:29:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:36:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:57:09 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 09:57:32 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:58:02 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 09:59:48 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:19:03 -!- boily has joined. 10:31:39 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:49:52 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 11:20:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DISSIDENT CHICKEN). 11:22:06 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 11:22:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:30:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:17:29 >> viewQueue1 _ = error "Taneb's done something idiotic!" 12:17:30 [wiki] [[Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42138&oldid=41980 * 93.157.13.3 * (+13) 12:17:30 I see. 12:17:47 Would somebody please ban crisus. 12:17:59 He's spamming my query everytime I write something. 12:18:19 In spanish though. So I don't understand everything. 12:18:25 mroman, those are impossible to reach error conditions 12:18:33 But I assume "solo hooy" means "only today" 12:18:35 There is (or was? I may have removed one) three of them 12:18:55 There's three of them. 12:20:21 12:22:36 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- You are not authorized to (de)op elliott__ on #esoteric. 12:20:25 someone else do it 12:20:30 hi fizzie 12:29:44 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:34:07 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:39:22 -!- crisus has quit (K-Lined). 12:45:08 elliott__: Nickserv doesn't know you... 12:45:53 I have too many __s 12:47:13 . o O ( So why do I now think that "size matters"? ) 12:47:24 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:58:31 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:28:14 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:28:40 -!- ^v^v has joined. 13:31:19 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:53:42 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:58:09 -!- hjulle has joined. 14:17:47 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:30:35 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:45:57 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:49:39 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 14:53:50 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:54:18 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 15:05:56 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:06:05 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:16:12 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:24:12 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:29:41 -!- TieSoul has joined. 15:58:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:16:47 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:45:29 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:47:21 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:58:19 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:02:53 -!- arjanb has joined. 17:08:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:35:14 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:35:40 -!- ^v^v has joined. 17:44:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:58:20 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:02:25 what 18:10:05 -!- yukko has joined. 18:22:53 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 18:51:52 -!- cuquitu has joined. 19:04:40 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:05:06 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 19:05:52 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:13:08 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 19:15:48 -!- tromp__ has joined. 19:31:23 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:31:44 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:38:12 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSoul_. 19:38:28 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 19:39:13 -!- raoulvdberge has joined. 19:51:42 -!- raoulvdberge has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:52:07 -!- raoulvdberge has joined. 19:58:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:02:19 -!- Fleur has joined. 20:21:57 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:22:59 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:29:47 -!- cuquitu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:30:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:30:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:30:36 -!- cuquitu has joined. 20:39:46 -!- arjanb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:42:16 -!- raoulvdberge has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:42:43 -!- raoulvdberge has joined. 20:54:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:10:28 -!- iamevn has joined. 21:14:42 -!- g2watson has joined. 21:28:16 I've been working on a simple language for the last couple days, mainly because I've never tried to write an interpreter before and I thought it'd be fun to dive in and see what works and what doesn't. https://github.com/iamevn/wordy 21:28:27 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:29:17 The basic idea is that any collection of sentences is valid source code and is guaranteed to do /something/ without crashing. Also computed GOTOs are fun 21:30:53 any suggestions for things I can do to make the description and spec better/more clear? 21:32:10 -!- R40UL_ has joined. 21:36:04 -!- raoulvdberge has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:41:29 -!- R40UL_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:42:02 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:42:27 -!- ^v^v has joined. 21:50:44 -!- cleres has joined. 21:51:33 -!- boily has joined. 21:52:56 It would be great if your language description would output "Hello, World!" when interpreted by Word. iamevn. 21:53:06 by Wordy* 21:57:14 It'd be a pain to set that up for output that long. My current "Hello, world!" program consists of 168 sentences but I could possibly get it down to around 40 with some really long sentences to define constants to print. 21:58:17 Currently building a database of sentences from various books and I'm planning on adjusting the instruction mapping after analyzing that 22:02:58 The spec currently just loops for a bit and is only 56 commands long. 22:08:43 Heh. Maybe an idea would be to use other punctuation marks as a subset of instruction. I mean, Christopher, Walken, saying something, should, be... different than, anybody, else SAYING: "I mean, Christopher Walken saying something should be... different than anybody else saying:" 22:10:01 But I like the premis as is, though. 22:11:18 thanks, I briefly played with the idea of adding an instruction to make the motherboard beep but soon after reenabling the pcspkr kernel module I remembered why I disabled it in the first place. 22:13:54 I can imagine. 22:14:07 Wait, motherboards can still do that beep sound? 22:15:48 Yeah, though many systems don't have a speaker wired up for it. 22:16:19 I think windows and osx also don't allow you to anymore either. 22:19:16 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:26:02 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:26:10 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:27:45 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:28:30 O, glogbot is fixed now, it look like 22:31:10 !glogbot_help 22:31:25 !chicken 22:31:57 elliott__: please kickban cuquitu. it's a spambot. 22:31:58 Put an adjective behind it. In all caps. 22:32:11 !chicken ADMONISHED 22:32:24 And cleres too, elliott__. 22:32:48 Got the sme message from him as I did cuquitu. 22:36:48 sigh 22:36:50 We're all spambots though. I mean, I don't get a minutes rest from all the shit my brain is trying to sell me. 22:37:19 we're not privately messaging all people who say something on the channel 22:37:41 AndoDaan: oh... deep. 22:37:42 Who's to say that little voice inside your head is yours? 22:38:00 it's mine. 22:38:02 It's mine. I've grown used to it and adopted it. 22:38:08 Telepathic spamming has tricked us into thinking we're conscious. 22:38:17 How's that for esoteric. 22:38:39 You can set yourself +g and +D if you do not want to receive any messages on IRC, although that doesn't seem very useful; usually when you send a message you would want to get a reply. 22:39:02 As long as it isn't any .. what'stherename ... Thetans... it's fine. 22:39:49 +D yeah. "This prevents you from receiving channel messages. You will probably not want to set this in most cases. (It is used by services.)" 22:40:58 But is there a user mode such that when receiving a message, the sender's hostmask indicates whether they're identified to Nickserv or not? 22:41:18 int-e: I don't know if +R does it? 22:41:27 (Probably not) 22:41:43 +R filters out the messages from unidentified users; I don't really want that. 22:41:47 +D might possibly be useful for bots that only announce, in order to reduce how much data is needed 22:41:58 int-e: Then probably there isn't one 22:42:10 Although you can check if they are cloaked from the hostname at least 22:42:23 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:42:24 But not all identified clients are cloaked, such as, I am not 22:42:33 nor I. 22:43:41 int-e: there is a way to know that, but it's too long to fit on this margin 22:43:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:43:45 I don't know what cloaked means 22:43:47 int-e: ask me again tomorrow 22:44:05 That's what Fermat said. 22:44:15 b_jonas: Note timestamp: 23:46:12 int-e: ask me again tomorrow 22:44:21 Took him hella long to reincarnate as Andrew Wile. 22:44:45 Gregor: glogbot needs a clock adjustment hth 22:45:06 int-e: yeah, but it won't help if you ask while I'm asleep 22:45:33 AndoDaan: it's Wiles. (Oh he's been knighted?) 22:46:02 b_jonas: Who knows what feats your unconscious is capable of... 22:46:35 Looks like. Good for him, and Maths. 22:47:07 int-e: the problem isn't his unconscious hearing it, the problem is him remembering it after he wakes up hth 22:47:16 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 22:47:21 Though, Rolf Harrison was knighted. 22:47:27 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*cleres@213.143.60.*. 22:47:27 -!- oerjan has kicked cleres Spamming. 22:47:35 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*cuquitu@213.143.61.*. 22:47:35 -!- oerjan has kicked cuquitu Spamming. 22:47:47 AndoDaan: That happened in 2000, but I don't recall reading about it anywhere. 22:47:49 `thanks ørjan 22:47:53 hearing it? does he have an irc-to-voice bridge? 22:48:15 we definitely have a bot problem in this chännel... 22:48:26 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@213.143.*. 22:48:44 g2watson: you know that processors have all those funny emissions, some of them are audible. 22:48:58 @tell Gregor HackEgo is missing and glogbot needs a time adjustment hth 22:48:58 Consider it noted. 22:49:13 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*cleres@213.143.60.*. 22:49:14 g2watson: see http://www.tau.ac.il/~tromer/acoustic/ for example 22:49:21 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*cuquitu@213.143.61.*. 22:50:23 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 22:50:31 That link... Human ingenuity never ceases to amaze me. 22:51:29 Hmm... Seems like you could just play music while en/decrypting to fix that 22:52:18 Subtract the music with MUSAKHACKS.exe -subtrack 22:52:24 Would playing music actually work though? Music doesn't suppress other noise too isn't it? 22:52:56 hearing it? does he have an irc-to-voice bridge? <-- the unconscious is not limited by such considerations AUM hth 22:53:05 Only if it would go beyond the threshold of what's recording. 22:53:53 g2watson: Doubtful. Besides filtering techniques, there's the possibility to filter audio by source location given several microphones spaced somewhat apart (all 8 corners of a server, perhaps?) 22:54:28 Make a computer that shields the noise from the inside and has a built-in power regulator so that power analysis cannot be used either. 22:54:58 Or a computer that contains a wide-band random noise generator 22:55:04 g2watson: http://www.wired.com/2010/10/super-microphone-picks-out-single-voice-in-a-crowded-stadium/ 22:56:30 @tell Gregor actually it is there just failing to join the channel for some reason. again. 22:56:30 Consider it noted. 22:57:17 -!- Koen__ has joined. 22:57:23 fizzie: often-more-responsive-than-Gregor-ping 22:58:07 @pinky Another day. What shall we use it for? 22:58:07 Well, I think so, Brain, but it's a miracle that this one grew back. 22:58:14 oops backwards 22:58:20 @brain Another day. What shall we use it for? 22:58:20 Promise me something, Pinky. Never breed. 22:58:30 ok not for breeding, check 23:00:21 Hmm. *!*@*.aq 23:00:42 int-e: elliott hates penguins hth 23:01:28 anyway I see nothing that looks like it would include glogbot. 23:02:07 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 23:02:58 itym HackEgo 23:03:22 int-e: this is not new, it just seems to happen frequently on pingouts/server crashes/whatever 23:03:34 Let's see. 23:03:50 fizzie wins again 23:04:27 -!- HackEgo has joined. 23:04:39 You're in luck, I just got home. 23:04:41 i assume you've got your internet working enough you don't have to do that tethering-avoiding cell-phone dance any more 23:04:48 Yes. 23:04:57 I mean, we wouldn't have had fungot without that. 23:04:58 cell phone dance? 23:04:58 fizzie: later tell forcer there's a new revision eons ago but it seems that it's injected loads of users though? 23:05:01 also, yay 23:05:10 hold on, wrong name again 23:05:14 -!- g2watson has changed nick to oren. 23:05:17 fungot: You seem to have me confused with a bot. 23:05:17 fizzie: depends on how the program changes it. it prints ( list 1 2) ( scheme-report-environment 5)) 23:05:21 oerjan: I didn't expect to find anything, just thought it would be worth checking anyway. 23:05:45 oren: fizzie recently moved to london, and didn't have proper internet for a while, only cell phone 23:05:58 oh 23:06:49 Hey, fungot is our voice of reason. Sometimes it's even coherent! 23:06:49 int-e: you will see something else is too small 23:06:50 so was he doing that thing where a cell phone acts as a router? 23:07:14 I was not doing that, because it's forbidden by my phone contract. 23:07:20 Hence I had to do circuitous things. 23:07:41 Like move files from a computer into the phone in order to put them online, and so on. 23:07:58 int-e: you will see something else is too small << i don't think we should teach bots that kind of jokes. otherwise they might pass turing's test 23:07:58 Koen__: what does that want to be misinterpreted by later generations... ahem... machine-readable format the other day." 23:08:19 -!- Lymia has joined. 23:09:30 Turing test is bunk. I mean, if a 13yo Ukranian computer can pass it... Then we need another test. 23:10:57 It's funny 23:11:13 Every time an AI problem is solved, people find that the rules were flawed. :P 23:11:18 `learn fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. 23:11:18 oerjan: i didn't see it, you can't get an apartment, so it doesn't allow general recursion. 23:11:32 Learned 'fungot': fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. 23:11:37 (I'm no exception to that. But I find it amusing nonetheless.) 23:11:56 But this goalpost is very important, int-e. We need to get it right. 23:11:59 au revoir fungot! 23:11:59 boily: and that would cause infinite loops on my vm/ compiler just shows me how much i dislike the concept of the system 23:12:08 i've been planning to add a fungot wisdom for a week but i couldn't think of what to put in the second part 23:12:08 oerjan: please dont read that wrong anyway.) in this portable scheme library? :) ( i'm sure i'll have some holidays within the next ten years" would be 23:12:26 -!- adu has joined. 23:12:28 `thanks int-e 23:12:28 Otherwise we might not feel good about the AI slaves we'll be having. 23:12:29 Thanks, int-e. Thint-e. 23:12:30 int-e: chess are flawed. period. 23:12:31 oerjan: I need to get back on track. I've been neglecting my duties. 23:12:32 bah, human like AI isn't even that useful 23:12:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SIMILAR CHICKEN). 23:12:51 because humans are cheap 23:12:59 I'm currently reading A fire into the deep by Vernor Vinge 23:14:26 Turing test is bunk. I mean, if a 13yo Ukranian computer can pass it... Then we need another test. <-- well _that_ test was bunk, it was artificially limited what the interrogators could ask. 23:14:41 A fire upon the deep? 23:15:11 yup 23:15:29 Yeah, I should have qualified that. But I still think some unlike Turing things will have to be added to make it more useful. 23:15:47 oerjan: i didn't see it, you can't get an apartment, so it doesn't allow general recursion. <-- yeah you're pretty much right about that. 23:15:47 oerjan: it was a mutated ecoli, i just meant that i have absolutely no interest in doing so 23:16:40 But this goalpost is very important, int-e. We need to get it right. <-- the AI problem will have been solved when humans are no longer the ones with the power to set the goalposts hth 23:17:47 I'm for it. As long as they aren't I Have No Mouth twisted, then it can only beneficent mankind. 23:17:48 Bah! the actual "AI problem" is to make it both practical and cheaper to use AI's for a given purpose than humans. 23:17:49 AndoDaan: It's certain that Turing didn't have teenagers with a language barrier in mind when he designed his test(s). (Now I wonder whether any of the Judges could read and write Ukrainian...) 23:19:19 In particular humans are easier to debug than AI's. 23:19:35 ?! 23:19:35 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 23:19:36 Percussive maintenance. 23:20:20 lol 23:20:20 Hmm. What kind of drugs will an AI take? 23:21:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:21:38 I guess maybe they'll have the skills to modify their own stake. 23:21:49 state* 23:22:59 Who knows. 23:23:34 Maybe there will be some special repetetive (or not) bitstreams that overexcite receptors connected to pleasure centers. 23:24:21 Hmm, but they might want to be able to nuance what their pleasure is. 23:24:22 . o O ( "My AI is addicted to music by Bach." ) 23:24:44 would it be profitable to use such AI? 23:25:05 We're lucky, we have All kinds of evolutionary buttons to push, AI's will be more focused at first. 23:25:12 Ha. 23:26:25 oren: "use"? It would be thrilling to exchange ideas with it, and enjoy the short period before AIs surpass us and are no longer interested in talking to us :P 23:26:59 oren: More seriously, not all human endeavours are motivated by the prospect of profit. 23:27:41 True, but an AI-dev team needs to get funding from somewhere? 23:27:58 How commoly is setjmp used as a loop condition in a C code? 23:28:15 And how often as a loop condition when the loop body is empty? 23:28:29 There's academia, and there are hobbyists. And there are always people founding research in the hope of applying the resulting ideas elsewhere. 23:28:40 s/founding/funding/ 23:28:52 zzo38: Um, I have never used it that way 23:29:04 but then 23:29:24 I have only used it as the C version of "try" 23:29:59 Actually using it as a loop condition with an empty loop body is the only way I have ever used it, and only in one program 23:31:05 Hmm... on first return it exits right away 23:31:28 On second return it loops once then sets the jump again and exits 23:32:06 Yes 23:32:33 So it allows you to go back to that place an unlimited number of times 23:32:44 Yes 23:34:50 The program is a Z-machine debugger. 23:35:55 zzo38: Why would you do that? if (setjmp(...)) { } and while (setjmp(...)) { } seem equivalent to me, since it's okay to use the same jmp_buf data several times... 23:36:06 int-e: I have been told that it isn't OK 23:36:26 Which is why I even used a while loop rather than just putting setjmp as a statement by itself. 23:36:45 Since I don't otherwise care about the return value. 23:37:55 Errors and breakpoints can occur even in the middle of an instruction's execution, so the debugger checks if the program counter has changed, if it hasn't then it just returns to the program otherwise it longjmp before continuing execution. 23:40:21 -!- tromp__ has quit. 23:42:32 zzo38: So reading the C11 and C99 drafts I see no indication that this is problematic. The case is not explicitly mentioned. POSIX defers to the C standard... 23:43:54 int-e: Well, maybe, but someone else told me that it isn't allowed to reuse the same jump buffer, so I did this just to be safe anyways 23:46:36 -!- vodkode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:47:04 O, now I made up a new keyword of Magic: the Gathering called "spellmorph"; it can be faced up for its spellmorph cost while on the stack or in play, but if faced up while in play in this way, it is moved onto the top of the stack. Either way, targets and modes are now selected at this time. 23:47:51 (If it is faced up while already on the stack, it remains in its current position instead of being placed on top. However, if it also has float, you can then move it to the top.) 23:48:11 Do you like that? 23:48:46 Of course there's always the question of what compilers do in practice, which may be more important than what the standard says. But I'd still like to have a better source than "somebody on the internet told me that somebody told him that this is bad". 23:49:21 int-e: Yes, that would help to know, although whether it is OK or not, what I did is safe. 23:49:50 (Possibly it is OK on some computers and not on others.) 23:52:02 zzo38: but some fascists will use the fact it isn't ok to make the whole program return immediately 23:52:36 So if it works i'm guessing it's ok 23:54:32 I expect it probably is OK in most cases (although possibly messes with some optimizations?), but am not sure, and possibly it might not work if compiling C->Java or whatever 23:59:07 -!- zzo38_ has joined. 23:59:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:59:13 -!- zzo38_ has changed nick to zzo38. 2015-03-17: 00:00:13 Hmm. What kind of drugs will an AI take? <-- i think they'd be on the wire 00:00:47 *under 00:01:04 Can't wait for that one. Poor Kzinthi, though.know I misspelled that. 00:01:29 I googled some more; I still think it's okay per the standard (and I've seen several people come to the same conclusion), but as said earlier, it's possible that some implementations get this wrong. I also found https://www.securecoding.cert.org/confluence/display/c/MSC22-C.+Use+the+setjmp%28%29,+longjmp%28%29+facility+securely which has some nice examples (but doesn't mention double use of... 00:01:35 ...set_jmp buffers either, except in a comment) 00:01:54 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:06:18 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 00:07:37 Well, in case some implementations don't allow reusing the same buffer, that's why I did the way I did it! Otherwise I don't need a loop and can just use setjmp as a statement by itself. I don't know much about some VM such as Java VM to know whether or not such a thing requires it when compiling C->JVM or C->Dalvik or whatever. 00:09:10 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 00:09:20 AndoDaan: *-h 00:10:03 Cool, thanks. 00:19:20 -!- bb010g has joined. 00:28:25 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 00:38:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:04:55 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 01:08:44 @tell elliott I have too many __s <-- more like you're not logged in to your account; technically you can be even if you're not currently using a nick registered to it 01:08:44 Consider it noted. 01:09:20 * oerjan briefly wonders if elliott__ will never see that message because he'll never lose the _s 01:11:25 @tell elliott iirc there's a syntax for including the account name in the server password for this 01:11:25 Consider it noted. 01:11:52 -!- Fleur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:34:22 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:49:14 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:49:39 -!- ^v^v has joined. 01:57:01 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:26:46 As long as it isn't any .. what'stherename ... Thetans... it's fine. <-- this is #esoteric. we have Multiocularoans. 02:27:07 @tell int-e As long as it isn't any .. what'stherename ... Thetans... it's fine. <-- this is #esoteric. we have Multiocularoans. 02:27:07 Consider it noted. 02:29:56 oerjan: do they live in a matrix of solidity? 02:31:28 no, we do. 02:31:33 > replicate 10 'ꙮ' 02:31:39 i thought that was well established. 02:32:05 > replicate 10 'ꙮ' 02:32:06 :1:15: 02:32:06 lexical error in string/character literal at character '\STX' 02:32:23 `unidecode 'ꙮ' 02:32:24 ​[U+0027 APOSTROPHE] [U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O] [U+0027 APOSTROPHE] 02:32:32 -!- hjulle has joined. 02:32:41 shocking 02:32:45 > 'Ø' 02:32:47 '\216' 02:32:53 > 'ꙮ' 02:32:54 '\42606' 02:33:02 well yes but 02:33:05 oh you still had some bolding 02:33:12 I have no idea where that's coming from 02:33:14 i didnt know whether they did 02:33:23 and if so, is it the same one 02:33:23 Bizarre 02:33:25 -!- adu has joined. 02:33:37 quintopia: we may never know. 02:35:14 I think it's an issue with my client. :| 02:36:19 i assume you copied and pasted that from somewhere... 02:39:31 > cat . map (text . pure . chr) $ replicate 10 42606 02:39:32 ꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮ 02:39:34 Better 02:41:39 > replicate 10 '\42606' 02:41:40 "\42606\42606\42606\42606\42606\42606\42606\42606\42606\42606" 02:41:49 RIGHT 02:41:59 :t cat 02:42:00 [Doc] -> Doc 02:42:05 huh 02:42:12 @hoogle cat 02:42:13 Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ cat :: [Doc] -> Doc 02:42:13 Text.PrettyPrint cat :: [Doc] -> Doc 02:42:13 Language.Haskell.TH.PprLib cat :: [Doc] -> Doc 02:42:26 > text $ replicate 10 '\42606' 02:42:27 ꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮ 02:42:35 Oh, that would be easier 02:43:13 I was still thinking about this discussion in #haskell that required all that extra work :D 02:46:28 > nest 10 . text $ replicate 10 '\42606' 02:46:30 ꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮ 02:46:39 Neat. I'm going to have to use this library more often. 02:47:39 last i checked it didn't support table grids, though. 02:48:02 Aww 02:48:18 as in, you can combine either horizontal or vertical, but not both simultaneously 02:48:32 in a way that combines widths 02:49:02 :t hang 02:49:02 Doc -> Int -> Doc -> Doc 02:49:35 hang (text '\42606') 5 (text '\42607') 02:49:45 > hang (text '\42606') 5 (text '\42607') 02:49:46 Couldn't match type ‘GHC.Types.Char’ with ‘[GHC.Types.Char]’ 02:49:46 Expected type: GHC.Base.String 02:49:46 Actual type: GHC.Types.CharCouldn't match type ‘GHC.Types.Char’ with ‘[GHC... 02:49:55 Oh, duh 02:50:06 > hang (text "\42606") 5 (text "\42607") 02:50:07 ꙮ ꙯ 02:50:10 hm does lambdabot have OverloadedString 02:50:13 *+s 02:50:18 > "test" :: Text 02:50:19 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Text’ 02:50:26 > hang "\42606" 5 "\42607" 02:50:27 oh not that Text 02:50:27 Couldn't match expected type ‘Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ.Doc’ 02:50:27 with actual type ‘[GHC.Types.Char]’Couldn't match expected type ... 02:50:27 with actual type ‘[GHC.Types.Char]’ 02:50:32 > "test" :: Doc 02:50:33 Couldn't match expected type ‘Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ.Doc’ 02:50:33 with actual type ‘[GHC.Types.Char]’ 02:50:37 nah 02:51:00 > hang "\42606" 20 "\42607" 02:51:01 Couldn't match expected type ‘Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ.Doc’ 02:51:01 with actual type ‘[GHC.Types.Char]’Couldn't match expected type ... 02:51:01 with actual type ‘[GHC.Types.Char]’ 02:51:06 > hang (text "\42606") 20 (text "\42607") 02:51:07 ꙮ ꙯ 02:51:11 > hang (text "\42606") 20 (text "\42606") 02:51:12 ꙮ ꙮ 02:51:34 :t sep 02:51:35 [Doc] -> Doc 02:51:48 * ProofTechnique shrugs 02:52:45 it's too short to wrap? 02:53:41 iirc there's some config to change the max width 02:56:03 > text "for" <> space <> lparen <> semi <> semi <> rparen <> space <> lbrace <> rbrace 02:56:05 for (;;) {} 02:56:19 http://twinbeard.com/kickstarter-simulator-2015 02:56:54 Frog Fractions was great 03:00:08 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:48:16 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:48:34 -!- adu has joined. 03:52:37 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:54:50 @tell fizzie no wiki bridge hth 03:54:50 Consider it noted. 03:58:18 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:16:30 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 05:56:04 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:56:31 -!- ^v^v has joined. 06:16:49 > text "for" <> space <> lparen <> semi <> semi <> rparen <> space <> lbrace <> text "puts" <> lparen <> quote <> text "Hello, world!" <> quote <> rparen <> rbrace 06:16:50 Not in scope: ‘quote’ 06:16:50 Perhaps you meant one of these: 06:16:50 ‘quot’ (imported from Prelude), 06:17:07 > text "for" <> space <> lparen <> semi <> semi <> rparen <> space <> lbrace <> text "puts" <> lparen <> text "\"Hello, world!\"" <> rparen <> semi <> rbrace 06:17:08 for (;;) {puts("Hello, world!");} 06:17:15 Interesting 06:17:15 ? 06:21:21 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 06:30:45 -!- igor has joined. 06:49:18 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 06:57:30 -!- igor has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:27:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:31:26 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 07:31:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 07:47:42 . 07:47:55 . 07:48:00 Good, crisus isn't here anymore 07:48:15 who's crisus 07:48:36 A spam bot on this channel. 07:49:04 oh. 07:49:47 i banned a couple and their ip 07:50:14 *ip range 08:14:49 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:15:36 -!- hjulle has joined. 08:17:11 morning 08:18:11 good mroing 08:27:03 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:31:38 -!- hjulle has joined. 08:32:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Mornight). 08:45:52 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:05:13 good moaning 09:05:20 -!- S1 has joined. 09:09:18 happy st patricks day 09:30:25 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:44:07 https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8461586176/h50B14538/ 10:21:47 -!- boily has joined. 10:24:31 @massages-loud 10:24:31 You don't have any messages 10:32:24 fungot, what should I have for breakfast? 10:32:24 Taneb: ( line 1, column 4): ( cerr nl)) is a term 10:32:47 fungot, cereal, you say? 10:32:47 Taneb: so i need 10:32:56 fizzie, I think fungot needs cereal 10:32:56 Taneb: ct is a fun scheme implementation for php...) 10:42:03 Tanelle. feeding botsnacks to the fungot? 10:42:03 boily: will it be as disgusting as it sounds, if that something else, ideally something else concrete or specific? :) i've played with meroon a bit. 10:42:25 fungot: hey, don't diss the Tanebcereals! 10:42:25 boily: ok then stop whining about it missing things like http://foo/ bar-baz' fnord. apparently he uses to stress-test syntax-rules implementations. it's been shown to be useful 10:42:39 fungot: OKAY 10:42:39 boily: the proc is invoked. before or after the evaluator transfers control to a certain class of anime characters with long hair and loud music 10:45:31 fungot, dipense cereal.\ 10:45:32 AndoDaan: i wonder how long it took psyntax to load it.) here's a program i have in the in-memory cache at one time 10:46:08 I DON'T NEED THE SOFTWARE. i NEED THE HARDWARE. 10:52:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:52:26 oh hello, fungot! 10:52:27 b_jonas: no one develops or really even uses the client anymore... all i wanted to link it and solaris's linker rejects a.out. 10:52:29 I haven't seen you in a while 10:52:44 I'm glad you found your way back safe, fungot 10:52:45 b_jonas: that's great. maybe it needs some more comments, but the 10:52:57 fungot: I hope you enjoyed your vacation as much as I have 10:52:57 b_jonas: with improvements. just be uniform about it. what's it like? 10:53:15 fungot: a week long, no new snow but enough remaining on the pistes 10:53:16 b_jonas: no, but i don't want such a target for codegen. i've done enough of this bickering. en guard, neil! 10:54:03 fungot and b_jonas sitting in a tree, kay eye es es eye en gee... 10:54:03 AndoDaan: and when you do ( nth-value 1 ( function)). the primitive operations of a turing machine was an ad-hoc, fnord bug-ridden slow implementation of half of common lisp. 10:54:04 ooh, fungot is here 10:54:04 ais523: i think you have to follow that route too probably, but it does no fingerprints at all, 10:54:11 oh, ais523 is here 10:54:13 as is AndoDaan, as is b_jonas 10:54:48 `? weetoflakes 10:54:50 Weetoflakes are something Taneb invented; they taste sort of purple. 10:57:56 wow, I just got spam in French, and I could actually read enough of it to see that it was in a typical spam form 10:59:02 ais523: ooooh! can I get a copy? 11:00:21 "Mes sincères salutations et mes excuses à votre égard. Je voudrais m'excuser de mon intrusion dans votre vie privée. Je me nomme Mme Patricia Konan , Cadre au Département de la Comptabilité à Ecobank Côte d'Ivoire. Un compte a été ouvert au sein de notre banque en 2005 et depuis 2011, aucune opération ne s'est effectuée. Ce compte présente à ce jour dans nos livres, un compte créditeur de Huit Millions Cinq Cent Mille €uros ( 8.500. 11:00:23 000 €). Après avoir consulté tous les dossiers relatifs à ce compte, je me suis rendue compte que je pouvais disposer aisément de cet argent si je réussissais à le virer sur un compte à l'extérieur donc je suis à la recherche d'un partenaire serieux et honnête." 11:00:28 I can go on if you like 11:00:39 but the second sentence struck me as a typical spam opening 11:00:57 basically because it's saying "you don't know who I am or why I'm contacting you, that's expected" 11:01:19 "Come with me if you want to live"? 11:01:30 most non-English spam I get is in Russian 11:01:39 AndoDaan: I translated it as "I'd like you to forgive me for intruding into your private life" 11:01:57 I've got a few spam in strange languages, but I don't recall any in French 11:01:58 my French is not nearly as good as that of the actual French people here, though 11:02:07 b_jonas: well French isn't exactly a strange language 11:02:41 yep 11:02:50 oui. 11:02:59 Wow, I know french. 11:04:12 b_jonas: what proportion of your spam is in Hungarian, incidentally? 11:04:19 (i.e. are spambots any good at guessing native languages?) 11:06:09 ais523: I get some Hungarian spam... let me think, it's not easy to tell because I don't collect spam and rarely look at them 11:07:13 my spam filter for my nethack4.org address runs client-side 11:07:28 and although there have been no false positives yet, I check my spam folder every now and then 11:07:39 I get some academic spam ("Dear Professor", call for papers, conference invitation, invited to LinkedIn and whatever) which is all in English (duh) 11:08:15 are you an academic? 11:08:23 There's some Hungarian spam I get, but I think half of them is from companies I have actually been in contact with 11:09:04 ais523: what counts as an academic? I have maths publications, and the spambots don't ask for a PhD degree (which I haven't got yet) 11:09:18 and they definitely don't require any higher rank or diploma 11:09:31 b_jonas: any paper in any journal is enough, I think 11:09:33 for this purpose 11:10:19 ais523: yes 11:11:11 Anyway, it seems I have at least some spam in serbo-croatian (in latin letters), some chinese language spam 11:11:19 and one that looks like italian to me, but let me check 11:12:41 no wait, this says "Por favor" so it's either Portugese or Spanish 11:16:18 hmm, multiple spam in croatian language for some reason 11:17:23 and the "Por favor" one is Portugese because it has -ção 11:18:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: IMMINENT CHICKEN). 11:20:10 I've got quite some Hungarian spam but it comes mostly from the same few companies that I have once contacted 11:20:31 ones that collect email addresses and then send ads forever 11:20:40 those don't bother me much because they're easy to filter 11:25:48 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:48:05 fungot: How would you even eat cereal? 11:48:05 fizzie: not sure how to do the gules fish. 11:48:20 @tell oerjan I always forget that one. 11:48:20 Consider it noted. 11:53:26 -!- cleres has joined. 11:54:21 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 13:04:29 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:28:26 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:44:18 am i insane for thinking that a functional programming language without proper support for recursion is a dumb idea? :/ 13:44:50 Also, account cleres is a spambot. 13:45:33 J_Arcane: evidence? PMs? 13:45:40 Yes. 13:45:57 Automatic spam PM in Spanish with an obfuscated link as soon as I messaged the channel. 13:46:07 I didn't get one 13:46:18 ah, now I did 13:46:21 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523. 13:46:26 -!- ais523 has kicked cleres spambot. 13:46:27 -!- cleres has joined. 13:46:45 -!- ais523 has kicked cleres spambot. 13:46:45 -!- cleres has joined. 13:46:55 hmm 13:47:13 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: +b *!*@84.78.18.51. 13:47:29 -!- ais523 has kicked cleres I don't have a better default kick reason, but if you're being kicked, you should know why. 13:47:59 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -o ais523. 13:48:20 what sort of spambot rejoins that quickly after kicks anyway 13:48:26 when there'll clearly be an op watching 13:51:48 Who the hell even wastes time spamming IRC anymore for that matter? 13:57:21 well, spam is cheap 14:05:55 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:07:34 gules? gules as in heraldrish for red? 14:10:07 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:10:29 -!- ^v^v has joined. 14:14:13 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:38:44 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:31:38 -!- hjulle has joined. 16:35:07 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:49:32 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:52:05 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:55:03 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 17:10:57 -!- Koen__ has joined. 17:17:43 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 17:21:26 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:21:49 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 17:32:30 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:56:08 -!- Soni has joined. 17:56:27 so there's this language called Lua, it's pretty standard stuff 17:56:42 I've heard of that once or thirtice 17:57:02 but I had an idea for an esoteric language which I shall call "verticallua" https://gist.github.com/SoniEx2/0175fb380a96317f6761 17:57:55 is it just the transpose of Lua? 17:58:46 it's vertical lua, yes 17:59:44 whitespace is significant as it behaves both as syntactic separator (just like in normal lua) and padding 17:59:59 (idk any programming language that requires padding) 18:00:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:07:04 Soni: does it count as padding when fortran and some assembly languages require space between the label and instruction fields, even if the label is not present? 18:07:38 no? 18:07:41 padding is like 18:07:50 all lines must be X bytes in length 18:08:03 oh, like any language on punched cards? 18:08:12 uhh I guess 18:10:12 didn't think of that :P 18:17:52 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 18:21:14 -!- qlkzy has changed nick to qlktea. 18:28:01 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:31:29 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:32:10 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:38:05 -!- bb010g has joined. 18:51:23 -!- Fleur has joined. 18:51:49 -!- qlktea has changed nick to qlkzy. 18:52:01 such silliness, space based cloud computing... 18:55:37 fungot: enlighten me 18:55:38 int-e: collections are the greatest of three numbers x, y, z, r fnord rgb r, g, d, e 18:56:04 thanks, I'll have to meditate on that 18:57:30 `unidecode ꚜъ 18:57:32 U+A69C - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ea 9a 9c UTF-16BE: a69c Decimal: ꚜ \ ꚜ (ꚜ) \ Uppercase: U+A69C \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) \ \ U+044A CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER HARD SIGN \ UTF-8: d1 8a UTF-16BE: 044a Decimal: ъ \ ъ (Ъ) \ Uppercase: U+042A \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-t 19:55:31 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:09:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:10:38 -!- Lymia has joined. 20:16:03 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:29:07 http://www.drmichaeljoyner.com/identical-twins-genetic-destiny/ 20:32:05 oops, that was for another chan 20:37:52 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 20:48:16 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:48:22 -!- bb010g has joined. 20:55:49 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:04:52 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:31:54 "Warning: Can't delete Permanent tag Canon:TimeZone" grumble frumble exiftool. 21:32:34 (Didn't set the camera time zone at all, trying to fix it retroactively; exiftool can shift the timestamp itself just fine, but can't remove the timezone tags.) 21:34:35 It can edit the TimeZone field, but "Warning: Can't convert Canon:TimeZoneCity (not in PrintConv)". 21:35:04 And apparently it didn't edit Canon:TimeZone either. 21:35:14 Well, hopefully no program is trying to be clever enough to parse that field. 21:40:30 -!- boily has joined. 21:56:36 -!- Tritonio has joined. 21:58:42 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:24:15 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:24:40 -!- ^v^v has joined. 22:27:46 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 22:31:09 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:31:28 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 22:34:19 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:34:41 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 22:42:10 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:42:14 -!- _AndoDaan_ has joined. 22:44:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:46:26 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 23:24:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:24:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:27:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:30:19 -!- satbuddhi has joined. 23:31:33 `relcome satbuddhi 23:31:35 ​satbuddhi: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:31:37 @messages- 23:31:37 fizzie said 11h 43m 17s ago: I always forget that one. 23:31:38 int-e said 4h 37m 38s ago: ꙮans make me nervꙭus. 23:33:12 -!- Fleur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:47:44 -!- villasukka has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:48:27 @metar CYUL 23:48:28 CYUL 172300Z 32012G22KT 30SM FEW060 SCT090 M03/M13 A2983 RMK SC2AC2 SLP103 23:53:18 hi everyone :) 23:53:29 @metar ENVA 23:53:29 ENVA 172350Z 09004KT CAVOK 05/M02 Q1034 RMK WIND 670FT 16013KT 23:53:46 spring is a-coming 23:57:48 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:58:22 -!- _AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 2015-03-18: 00:03:36 boily: happy still-st patrick's day-in-canada, mr. mispronounced irish name 00:05:18 (admittedly it'd probably be something like boeilliach in real irish) 00:05:29 oerjan: spring is pas vraiment a-coming, but thanks! 00:05:34 heh, boeilliach :D 00:05:41 satbuddhi: satbudhelloi! 00:06:10 boily: irish spelling is _weird_ 00:06:19 hi 00:07:59 it's like they insisted on using vowels to tell what palatalization the consonants are, but didn't have the sense to switch altogether to cyrillic 00:10:14 Cyrrilicized Irish, Japonic Norwegian, oh my! 00:10:43 hm wikipedia has very few relevant hits on boily. are you related to david (also canadian)? 00:11:22 sometimes names have a nice article or at least disambiguation with etymology and stuff 00:11:22 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 00:11:46 maybe? there's a David in my extended family, but he isn't a Boily. 00:12:18 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Boily also from quebec 00:15:12 well, I'd be very extremely surprised hearing of a non-Québécois Boily. 00:15:45 this claims it's a french name https://www.houseofnames.com/Boily-history?A=54323-292 00:17:17 you know, i'm starting to get skeptical to the irish claim http://forebears.io/surnames/boily 00:17:53 I... I'm having an existential crisis... 00:18:00 it's French??? 00:18:02 whoops 00:18:03 AAAAAAAAAH! 00:18:12 fungot: help me regain identity! or composition! 00:18:12 boily: do you use 00:18:24 fungot: I DON'T KNOW! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!! 00:18:24 boily: i will still have the semantics for it are defined if it does. ( string-number " 5" 00:18:50 oerjan: according to the oracle, I'm string-number "5". why... 00:20:03 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 00:21:34 it definitely seems more common in canada 00:23:24 bin tiens. 00:23:53 at least I know that Tremblay (my dad's side) is French. I checked the genealogy and stuff. 00:24:29 * oerjan goes to check, just in case 00:25:28 "This interesting name, recorded in Fifeshire, Scotland from the middle of the 13th Century, derives from the ..." 00:25:31 Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Tremblay#ixzz3Ugzwp3kt 00:25:47 wtf 00:26:08 copying from that page added an extra line... 00:27:02 which sort of ruins my plans because now you can easily check it 00:28:00 -!- vodkode has joined. 00:28:49 `relcome vodkode 00:28:51 ​vodkode: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:29:14 i think i've seen em before 00:29:37 although e may not have been relcomed 00:31:49 when in doubt, relcome. 00:31:58 it adds cölour. 00:32:13 ÖKAY 00:38:42 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 00:39:01 -!- idris-bot has joined. 00:41:06 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit). 00:41:19 -!- idris-bot has joined. 00:43:28 `addquote boily: the proc is invoked. before or after the evaluator transfers control to a certain class of anime characters with long hair and loud music 00:43:28 oerjan: there are very rarely places where you can define a local variable x. x 00:43:30 1235) boily: the proc is invoked. before or after the evaluator transfers control to a certain class of anime characters with long hair and loud music 00:44:03 fungot: you should put that language on the wiki hth 00:44:04 oerjan: h_________e______l_________l_________o_____,____ fnord! you send an email to the mailing list? if so, there you go 00:44:13 ^style 00:44:13 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 00:44:46 > map length $ group "h_________e______l_________l_________o_____,____" 00:44:47 [1,9,1,6,1,9,1,9,1,5,1,4] 00:46:34 now i wonder why it didn't fnord that word 00:48:20 -!- iamevn has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:49:00 fungot: you should fnord more hth 00:49:00 boily: any thoughts on how feasible extending a compiler would be similar to the one in my opinion syntactically as well 00:49:06 -!- iamevn has joined. 00:50:37 I am confused. 00:51:09 The word does not seem to appear even once in the material I think the style was trained on. 00:51:18 SPOOOKY 00:51:39 Oh, case-sensitive search. 00:52:00 It appears three times, said by EgoBot, in what looks like some sort of a hangman game. 00:52:05 aha 00:52:33 http://sprunge.us/Aibi 00:52:55 It fnorded the following word, because those are (probably) unique. 00:54:17 fnording a word? 00:54:24 fnording. 00:54:40 a word of utmost fnordinance 00:55:11 -!- `^_^v has joined. 00:55:32 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 00:58:35 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:12:12 -!- satbuddhi has quit (Quit: Saliendo). 01:41:48 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:42:19 -!- jix has joined. 01:43:53 -!- vodkode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:46:14 -!- Lymia has joined. 01:46:15 -!- bb010g has joined. 01:50:59 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FAIRY CHICKEN). 01:51:46 fairly oddchicken 01:59:49 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 01:59:49 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:00:31 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:00:44 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 02:09:23 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:26:15 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:38:11 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:38:41 -!- organix has joined. 02:38:48 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 02:38:53 -!- darsie has joined. 02:39:05 -!- goofygoobers has joined. 02:39:24 Hello 02:40:10 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 02:40:16 p/p 02:40:18 :) 02:40:19 o.o 02:40:25 hi DarkPrincess 02:40:27 errr darsie 02:40:34 Where is everyone else? 02:40:36 x3 02:40:39 hi darsie ;) 02:40:40 Are they all afk, 02:40:49 out doing magick 02:41:04 You could ask your question. 02:41:08 Is this really a channel about the occult? 02:41:30 Okay, my abusive biological father and stepmother were into weird shit 02:41:55 -!- Tiff_the_Amazing has joined. 02:41:57 I remember one of the odd things they told me was that rocks have magical powers and that you can have a conversation with rocks if you really wanted to 02:42:31 Also, they had these weird brown pebbles (maybe little stones?) on top of their door frames 02:43:00 I don't understand the meaning or significance of that. 02:43:07 Will you explain it to me? 02:43:16 Maybe give me a link or something? 02:48:23 i don't know where you all came from but this is good 02:48:24 `relcome 02:48:26 ​Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:51:16 thx 02:51:36 -!- organix has left. 02:51:46 elliott__: Please answer my question 02:51:55 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:51:58 i'm afraid i don't know the answer 02:52:04 You don't? 02:52:32 Is this really a channel about the occult? <-- no hth 02:52:48 I tried looking it up, and I can't find anything on it 02:52:52 please don't make them leave before they tell us where they came from 02:53:12 (i'm having a horrible day, why am i even talking in here) 02:53:23 goofygoobers: This chan seems to be about programming languages. 02:53:45 They came from ##chanzilla 02:53:55 It's a channel DarkPrincess started. 02:54:38 elliott__: Are there any occult related channels on here? 02:54:42 hi elliott__ :) 02:54:52 probably not. freenode is mainly open source stuff 02:54:53 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 02:54:59 I see 02:55:27 we don't know of any good occult channels or we'd put it in that welcome message (the channel it has is mostly dead iirc) 02:55:59 Mmhm 02:56:19 although, if you all went there, maybe it wouldn't be. 02:57:35 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:58:23 * Tiff_the_Amazing will remember this channel as it is also relevant to her interests 02:58:43 -!- darsie has left ("Dr. Chandra, will I dream?"). 03:00:43 one person! 03:00:44 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 03:00:46 that's a pretty good retention rate 03:01:15 Imagine that. 03:02:22 ^ul ((::**)~^)((((:(((((((((((_)(9))(8))(7))(6))(5))(4))(3))(2))(1))(0)(!^))~*^^S!)(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)~a((, )S:^)**^):^ 03:02:24 3, 13, 1113, 3113, 132113, 1113122113, 311311222113, 13211321322113, 1113122113121113222113, 31131122211311123113322113, 132113213221133112132123222113, 11131221131211132221232112111312111213322113, 31131122211311123113321112131221123113111231121123222113, 132113213221133112132123123112111311222112 ...out of time! 03:02:50 are you trying to scare her off :p 03:02:52 just a quick underload demonstration in the vague hope of bumping it up slightly 03:03:19 fungot, why are you so fungot? 03:03:19 pikhq: buit this is the internet way. i actually own the game, actual code would help. 03:03:41 Indeed. 03:04:05 Want to see my boobs? 03:04:28 boobs are extremely off-topic hth 03:04:51 Eh. Not like I don't see boobs often. 03:04:58 good humblebrag 03:05:13 I try. 03:05:44 Yes or no? 03:06:16 pls don't link nudes in #esoteric if you are below the maximum of 18 and the age of consent in your area 03:06:24 * pikhq is more feelin' like some gay porno right now 03:06:33 i'm doing my job as an op :( 03:06:40 elliott__: Alas. 03:06:57 that's a pretty creepy reply 03:07:00 I'm 19 03:07:28 http://imgur.com/a/RFdtk 03:07:36 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:08:04 i don't believe this is going to be boobs 03:08:10 huh. it was boobs 03:08:12 elliott__: Was it creepy? 03:08:32 Yeah, I was expecting something a bit more trolly. 03:08:44 But it's just my boobs 03:08:45 :P 03:08:54 I thought you guys might like them 03:08:56 goofygoobers: We're cynical internet people. 03:09:01 sometimes a boob is just a boob 03:09:05 i'm not cynical! :( 03:09:17 elliott__: You're one of the more cynical people I know. 03:09:19 Being cynical doesn't mean you can't like something 03:09:29 that's just because i only say things in #esoteric when i'm in a bad mood -_- 03:09:38 It just means you're a party pooper 03:09:40 Okay, that might be it 03:10:05 http://imgur.com/a/E7tHn 03:14:18 apparently freud never actually said that. also, he was _really_ addicted to smoking. 03:14:24 Lol 03:14:47 And cocaine. 03:14:53 http://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/08/12/just-a-cigar/ 03:23:18 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 03:37:32 -!- password2 has joined. 03:46:43 -!- goofygoobers has left. 03:47:55 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:47:57 -!- vodkode has joined. 04:18:53 I can't hear the mosquito tone :( 04:19:00 Or maybe my headphones are just bad 04:21:01 when the mosquitos attack, you will be so hosed 04:34:57 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:39:00 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:03:59 -!- Tetrapyloctomy has joined. 05:04:27 Touch your computer screen, Its warm like flesh but its not. Not yet 05:05:30 sorry but it is cold hth 05:06:21 * oerjan zombie computer 05:06:27 Oh awesome that thing still updates. 05:06:45 what 05:07:00 http://windows95tips.com/ 05:07:04 hth 05:07:19 tdh thx 05:08:24 http://windows95tips.com/post/34200923828 This is of course the one being referenced. 05:08:35 yes 05:08:46 I bet they update it as a joke 05:09:41 It's Neil Cicieraga. Somewhat dada Internet humor is, like, his thing. 05:11:51 I'm am dying 05:12:09 How have I never seen this before 05:23:52 -!- Tiff_the_Amazing has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:34:48 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 05:42:55 -!- Tetrapyloctomy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:36:30 -!- vodkode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:42:56 -!- vodkode has joined. 07:02:02 -!- vodkode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:36:53 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:52:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: !wohs eht ot emocleW). 08:52:53 * Taneb suddenly deeply grasps pipelining 08:55:32 Such is what procrastinating doing your laundry can teach you 08:56:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:09:25 I wish there was a distributed version control system with a model simlar to subversion and its ease of use as well. Alas, that may be impossible. 09:11:57 That reminds me, has anyone ever worked with the C api of svn? It seems to be well-designed but complicated. Is it difficult to use, or is it just that the description is scary at first? 09:12:06 I might want to try to use it in the future, that's why I'm asking. 09:28:45 subversion? 09:29:00 YOu'd probably have to get into functional relational databases, b_jonas 09:45:16 -!- villasukka has joined. 10:24:16 -!- boily has joined. 11:16:50 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:21:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MAMMOTH CHICKEN). 11:30:58 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:46:46 Is there any wiki software that uses some version control system as the backend to store the history of its content? 11:47:06 Yes but I forgot what it's called 11:47:13 I've seen ones using git and darcs 11:47:18 Wikiplia does that, and I thought at first it was weird, but now I'm starting to think using a version control system this way could be a good idea (or a very bad idea depending on how you're doing it). 11:47:21 (different ones, not both at the same time) 11:47:28 (Wikiplia uses cvs I think.) 11:47:35 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/gitit 11:49:31 Taneb: I see 11:49:45 There are almost certainly other alternatives available 11:50:23 I'm still asking that thing about the C api of svn. 12:01:27 There's ikiwiki. 12:01:37 I think it's somewhat version-control-system-agnostic. 12:02:12 Or at least it officially supports git, svn, bzr, monotone, mercurial, darcs, tla, cvs. 12:02:16 https://ikiwiki.info/rcs/ 12:07:02 I see 12:27:27 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:49:57 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 12:51:12 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 12:53:08 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:54:05 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 12:54:55 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:56:43 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:13:44 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 13:15:28 -!- Vorpal has joined. 13:15:28 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 13:15:28 -!- Vorpal has joined. 13:15:51 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 13:17:07 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:18:23 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 13:19:32 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:19:39 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:20:51 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 13:21:27 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:23:43 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:30:11 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:30:37 -!- ^v^v has joined. 13:32:41 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 13:34:59 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 13:35:46 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:36:26 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 13:37:39 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:39:49 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:43:09 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 13:43:12 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:43:27 [wiki] [[Semi-quantum]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42142&oldid=42096 * Mazeman * (+0) /* Setup */ 13:43:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:44:27 [wiki] [[Semi-quantum]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42143&oldid=42142 * Mazeman * (+0) /* Define your own */ 13:47:41 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 13:49:38 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 13:51:05 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:51:29 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 13:52:30 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:53:37 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 13:54:00 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:56:30 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:57:28 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 13:59:03 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:59:46 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 14:01:49 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 14:02:15 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:04:52 -!- Tiff_the_Amazing has joined. 14:05:17 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:08:27 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 14:10:16 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:10:57 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:11:02 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:26:50 So I finished my C neural networks library, but I think IEEE floating point is probably not a good way to load real-number data into a NN. 14:27:53 -!- Tiff_the_Amazing has left. 14:28:47 But then the question becomes, what is a good way? 14:31:07 Perhaps one input for the scale, on input for value? 14:45:02 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:45:41 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 14:46:43 What is bad about it? 14:47:29 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 14:48:44 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:49:36 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 14:50:47 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:52:02 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:52:26 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 14:54:17 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 14:55:43 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:57:42 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:58:41 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 14:59:20 Jafet: mainly the fact it takes 64 inputs to input a real number as a double. 14:59:43 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 15:00:51 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:01:22 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 15:01:31 But maybe we can train a layer to "compress" the data in the best way for the purpose 15:03:01 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:04:19 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:05:15 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 15:06:43 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:08:08 Perhaps real numbers should be provided to neurons as real numbers. 15:08:23 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 15:09:46 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 15:10:10 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:10:30 DarkPrincess__: What are you doing? 15:11:42 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 15:11:51 . o O ( /ban DarkPrincess*!*@*$##fixyourconnection ) 15:12:27 elliott__: can you do the honors? 15:12:49 if I do that I'll forget to unban 15:13:04 fuck 15:13:08 I have a fixyourconnection ban there from 15:13:15 26 days ago 15:13:16 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:13:24 -!- elliott__ has changed nick to elliott. 15:13:28 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 15:13:28 -!- elliott has joined. 15:13:32 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 15:13:36 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -b shikhin!*@*$##fixyourconnection. 15:13:39 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 15:14:24 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:14:34 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 15:14:34 Jafet: I've tried that, it seems to have... problems 15:15:00 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:15:57 specifically, when tring to capture functions with high complexity at, say 100 and 1, and low complexity around the other numbers 15:16:27 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 15:16:35 oh well, /ignore DarkPrincess*!* JOINS PARTS QUITS does the trick, too. 15:17:43 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:19:49 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:19:58 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 15:20:59 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 15:22:04 Hmmm.... perhaps having a compression layer for double inputs (64 by 8 or so) is the best option 15:22:31 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:23:22 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 15:24:19 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:25:47 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:26:14 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 15:28:19 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 15:28:21 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:30:12 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 15:31:48 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:33:45 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:34:50 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 15:38:01 -!- DarkPrincess has joined. 15:38:15 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:39:08 -!- DarkPrincess__ has joined. 15:40:39 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:41:09 -!- DarkPrincess_ has joined. 15:43:03 -!- DarkPrincess has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:43:39 -!- DarkPrincess__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:46:39 -!- DarkPrincess_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:52:13 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 16:07:48 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:11:28 http://thatsmathematics.com/mathgen/paper.php?nameType[1]=famous&nameType[2]=famous&nameType[3]=famous&nameType[4]=famous&seed=1935868566&format=pdf 16:11:47 Hey everyone, I'm having some trouble understanding one of the definitions in this paper. 16:12:22 "Suppose there exists a multiply Jacobi-Galileo right-Ramanujan-Descartes prime. We say an isometry F is projective if it is pseudo-almost everywhere free and co-Newton." 16:12:31 What does it mean for an isometry to be "co-Newton"? 16:16:42 nice troll 16:17:00 should have uploaded it somewhere else 16:17:57 I should save one of these and email it to my co-workers as an example of somebody's amazing mathematical prowess. 16:20:26 "pseudo-almost everywhere", I think this is on topic here 16:23:11 "The goal of the present paper is to derive algebras." 16:23:29 This would be good, but not as the first sentence of section 6 :) 16:24:53 This is also nice: lim sup sinh(0^2) 16:25:55 lol 16:26:58 I want this book: "A First Course in Pure Knot Theory" 16:27:49 Or this: Euclidean Model Theory 16:28:17 Oh, I need to stop. One last one: "On the existence of sets" 16:31:31 i want that one 16:34:53 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:36:57 myname: Unfortunately, that one is only a paper. 16:41:48 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:42:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:48:01 -!- _1_rohit13487 has joined. 16:48:17 <_1_rohit13487> hi 16:51:44 -!- bb010g has joined. 16:52:36 -!- _1_rohit13487 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:10:49 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 17:17:21 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 17:41:58 -!- hjulle has joined. 17:49:44 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:58:53 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:59:46 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 18:03:28 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:23:46 -!- _AndoDaan_ has joined. 18:24:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:24:37 -!- vodkode has joined. 18:25:23 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:39:03 -!- ais523 has quit. 18:41:29 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 18:42:17 -!- perrier has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 18:44:09 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:50:26 -!- perrier has joined. 19:01:17 [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42144&oldid=40301 * SuperJedi224 * (+86) /* Knuth's Arrow Notation */ new section 19:01:36 [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42145&oldid=42144 * SuperJedi224 * (+3) /* Knuth's Arrow Notation */ 19:02:05 [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42146&oldid=42145 * SuperJedi224 * (+93) /* Knuth's Arrow Notation */ 19:07:20 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawseaker. 19:07:45 -!- lawseaker has changed nick to lawspeaker. 19:08:22 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 19:30:34 -!- goofygoobers has joined. 19:30:38 Hi 19:37:14 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:38:42 -!- Lymia has joined. 19:39:18 Hello? 19:39:30 elliott: Hello? 19:42:25 fungot: Hello?! 19:42:26 int-e: one unlambda, three intercals, and one contains twice as much happens. it does 19:43:00 I feel crappy right now 19:46:49 gello 19:46:56 Jello 19:46:57 what's the problem, goofy? 19:47:10 b_jonas: PMS 19:47:37 ah 19:47:59 we've lost Jiři Matoušek: http://kam.mff.cuni.cz/Matousek-obituary.html 19:49:25 -!- _AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:58:53 -!- Patashu has joined. 19:59:21 lol, hello, nice tits 19:59:34 Hi Patashu 19:59:38 Who has nice tits? 19:59:56 you or someone youposted the photos of 20:00:07 Thanks 20:01:45 sorry, his name is spelt Jiří Matoušek 20:01:51 (seems I'm not good in languages) 20:02:16 It happens 20:09:07 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:09:38 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:21:43 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:28:03 -!- goofygoobers has left. 20:47:27 -!- vodkode has joined. 21:12:58 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:15:15 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:17:54 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:18:18 -!- oren has changed nick to `oren. 21:18:33 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:19:18 -!- `oren has changed nick to \oren\. 21:32:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:46:35 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:47:06 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 22:06:36 -!- boily has joined. 22:11:19 -!- naturalog has quit (Quit: sec). 22:17:12 fungot: when will spring come? 22:17:12 boily: http://code.eso-std.org/ c-intercal/ pit/ tests/ iffit2.b98 22:17:35 fungot: ...? 22:17:35 boily: no, au contraire. it is also used for true, false 22:17:42 * boily brainfreezes 22:25:16 "Frog Fractions 2 giveaway! To make it more interesting we've removed one letter from the download code. C:\windows\s?stem32\freecell.exe" 22:34:58 -!- Soni has left ("Leaving"). 22:35:10 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 22:56:22 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:58:35 fungot: ffffrog? 22:58:35 int-e: i think mzc will do it correctly you need to run. 22:58:43 * int-e runs! 22:58:47 why am I running? 22:58:57 * int-e stops. 23:00:06 -!- monotone has quit (Quit: rebooting server). 23:03:04 int-hello. 23:03:32 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 23:05:02 -!- monotone has joined. 23:06:27 boily: Доброылй вечер 23:06:27 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:07:33 int-e: неплохо! 23:07:53 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 23:19:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:24:33 доброржан пожаловать! 23:25:02 (hmm... shouldn't it have been доброгян?) 23:29:58 itym доброрян 23:30:12 although my r certainly isn't palatalized 23:30:43 although my dialect _does_ have some palatalized consonants, r is not one of them. 23:32:22 bloody google steals too many keypresses 23:33:36 how could google steal keypresses? 23:33:37 would доброръян make sense? 23:33:49 int-e: well ^Z doesn't work to undo my typing 23:33:58 (in google translate) 23:34:38 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:35:06 all words starting with добр... seem to be related to being good or kind. 23:35:16 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 23:35:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:35:21 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:35:39 oh you mean ръ, not I don't think so 23:36:11 s/not/no/ 23:36:25 добройлый вечер 23:37:15 oerjan: yes, I thought of that as well, after my first attempy 23:37:16 t 23:37:49 (which knowing you you might've seen in the logs. but perhaps not.) 23:37:55 wait don't you actually know russian or something 23:37:59 (oerjan sees all.) 23:38:04 i haven't yet 23:38:09 oerjan: who? him? 23:38:13 I've forgotten most of what I learned. 23:38:20 boily: yes, int-e 23:38:34 although feel free to impress me by knowing it as well 23:39:45 oerjan: I recall some useless phrases like "Я не понимаю по-русский." 23:40:08 i don't ... russian 23:40:26 i guess it's speak 23:40:55 ah understand 23:42:43 And numbers, один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять 23:43:13 speak would be "говарю" 23:43:23 понимаю is understand 23:43:33 Oh, you got thawt 23:43:36 *that 23:43:42 (I got some numbers spelled incorrectly at first, google helped.) 23:45:06 There's little logic to all those ь... мягкий знак... whatever. 23:47:05 Why does googling "мягкые знаки" turn up a youtube video with a Rubik's cube sceenshot? 23:47:20 this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_kU_y07J5o 23:47:35 erm it means the consonant is palatalized 23:47:57 ^ 23:47:59 (Oh, и not ы) 23:48:19 oerjan: try that with an M 23:49:00 The ть are common, and actually I wasn't complaining about those. 23:49:46 well i _think_ there's supposed to be an y-like sound after the m? 23:50:16 i'm not very proficient at that though 23:52:12 my dabblings have led me to the unanswered question of whether there is any difference between ш and сь 23:54:12 it's like they set up this nice system of showing palatization with vowels and then they completely break it with the fricatives 2015-03-19: 00:00:42 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:07:49 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 00:12:23 @tell Vorpal https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20150319-mtv.jpg 00:12:23 Consider it noted. 00:17:22 -!- bb010g has joined. 00:24:16 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:25:59 -!- iamevn has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:31:01 oerjan: They're entirely different. ш is /ʃ/ while сь is /s'/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejective_consonant has a sample of the latter. 00:31:34 (so fortunately my first instinct was about right: s' starts out pretty much like a normal s) 00:31:51 (but I wasn't certain enough about that to share that idea) 00:33:45 g'night 00:34:15 java still keeps blocking wikipedia's sound app :( 00:34:26 -!- \oren\ has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:35:03 -!- oren has joined. 00:36:24 @tell int-e I am extremely skeptical at your ejective consonant claim, are you sure the ' you found was really meant as the proper ipa symbol? 00:36:25 Consider it noted. 00:36:39 no. 00:37:18 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_phonology doesn't use that symbol 00:38:42 Still... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Ru-%D0%B2%D1%8B%D1%81%D1%8C.ogg 00:38:56 nowhere near /ʃ/ 00:39:10 which one 00:39:19 высь 00:39:37 on the page you just linked to 00:39:41 bah 00:40:06 i basically cannot listen to any mediawiki sounds 00:40:51 [sʲ] is what they use there, mm. 00:41:52 Anyway, I really should sleep. 00:42:36 sweet dreams 00:44:03 if ш is in the same spot as ж then i think i get a better idea, the latter is supposedly slightly retroflexy 00:44:30 oh wait it says retroflex on the ipa link 00:44:41 fungot: are you retroflexy? 00:44:42 boily: well then. how's the implementation?') on channel in case am being ignored, since i don't think 00:45:01 fungot: yes you think. 00:45:01 boily: that was a bit of predicates 00:45:08 fungot: touché. 00:45:08 boily: the whole point of standards is fnord? ( i never used modems as file storages! type `/msg egobot !hangman word 00:45:15 ok ш is supposedly about the same as norwegian rs 00:45:59 ah fungot has detected the true evil of standards 00:45:59 oerjan: maybe you?)) for fnord and fnord." and by " right thing" 00:45:59 oerjan: you got me trying to pronounce an «r» at the same place as a ш. it's not a good feeling. 00:46:20 boily: um rs is _not_ a trill in norwegian hth 00:46:37 it's just an honest-to-goodness retroflex fricative 00:46:39 what? “rs” is a digraph? 00:46:43 yes 00:46:51 * boily shudders 00:46:57 r+dental generally means retroflex in norwegian 00:47:11 sometimes even across word boundaries 00:47:52 yesterday I learned that I'm French, and today you're telling me that retroflexes spill across boundaries. we live in a mad world. 00:48:44 indeed 00:49:06 on the plus side, that's about the only sandhi/liaison norwegian has 00:49:13 iirc 00:51:25 boily: norwegian has many digraphs. gj, kj, sj, even a trigraph: skj (same sound as sj) 00:52:28 * boily sings «gje gje gje gje ♪» 00:52:29 sk may count too, it's also the same sound in front of some vowels/diphthongs 00:52:52 boily: that's exactly how it's pronounced 00:53:02 may also be written just j 00:53:12 or just g in front of the same vowels 00:53:52 that's a general feature of the combinations ending in j 00:55:05 we're not big on unique spelling of phonemes 00:58:15 * oerjan idly tests that his own dialect also sandhis palatalization 00:58:33 but that's not a feature of the norwegian that's taught to foreigners 00:58:46 sandhi tte nani? 00:59:01 oren: wat 00:59:14 what is sandhi? 00:59:58 a term from sanskrit 01:00:25 that language is supposedly even fiercer than french at making phonology cross word boundaries 01:01:04 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandhi 01:02:09 french "liaison" is a subset 01:04:06 apparently it also covers things inside words 01:04:46 i guess norwegian has some more of that 01:06:12 Hmm... So japanese rendaku is included 01:06:21 was just about to mention that 01:07:45 French liaison is strangely logical, and goes with the actually written spelled letters. 01:09:18 if only the french would put ' whereever letters aren't said, that would be great 01:10:13 like je parl' tu parl' 01:11:10 nic' idea 01:11:53 A'tho' not that english has any ri't telling french what to do in that regard 01:12:31 bless you 01:13:13 seriously I can't think of a word in which 'gh' is pronounced 01:13:32 Oh, rite, the word laff! 01:15:01 (that is, 'laugh' which is not /læug/) 01:16:17 A good moderate spelling reform would be to respell all words containing 'gh' 01:17:16 (except benghazi and other legitimately foreign words) 01:19:12 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:20:12 -!- Vorpal has joined. 01:20:12 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 01:20:12 -!- Vorpal has joined. 01:21:39 ch'parl', tsu parl', i parl', a parl', on parl', vous parlez, i parl'. 01:22:00 (probably «vou parlé» if you're going to be phonetic.) 01:22:26 tsu? a? 01:22:52 you are not making a good argument for making french spelling phonetic :P 01:23:38 -!- v4s has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:23:39 the brite gost ruffly laffed at the eity hi firefiters 01:23:42 * oerjan has no idea what "a" is supposed to be 01:24:12 ok unless you're crazy enough to pronounce elle that way 01:24:58 muah ah ah ah ah. 01:25:13 yes, it's informally pronounced that way. 01:25:28 of course the words tho and thru are already standard spellings 01:26:16 oren: /se.skæ.lɑ.dzi/ ← “that's what she said” 01:26:19 -!- v4s has joined. 01:26:24 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:27:03 s/oren/oerjan/, but I guess oren fits too. 01:27:29 ce est que l'elle dit? 01:28:19 did I get that right? 01:28:23 -!- erdic has joined. 01:28:27 «c'est ce qu'elle a dit», but close enough. 01:28:29 s/right/rite/ 01:29:02 enuff 01:29:59 the /l/ in there is liaison between «elle» and «a». if it hadn't been there, it would've been /se.skæˑ.dzi/ «c'est ce qu'elle dit». 01:30:58 feendish 01:31:50 devadehosa 01:32:05 what's a devadehosa? 01:32:20 *dævadæhosa 01:33:08 fungot: oerjan is speaking in tongues again. care to translate? 01:33:09 boily: very cool. fpga). fnord) some kind of pervert. " let out your inner perl programmer! 01:33:32 very good, except the perl 01:33:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:34:41 boily: i merely translated your phrase to my dialect. after a brief detour through some other dialect because i couldn't remember my own hth also it's stressed on the o 01:35:32 (it may possibly be my grandparents') 01:35:48 print"this is a regex matching itself"if($i~=s/(??{$i})/) 01:36:27 * boily mapoles oren for public indecency 01:36:55 oerjan: that's what your grandmother said. 01:37:16 devadehofarmorsa 01:41:58 hmm, so we have fite-fought, buy-bought, seek-sought, and teach-taught. What the hell is this somewhat-regular insanity 01:42:21 fight 01:42:57 So we'd spell them fot, bot, sot, and tot respectively? 01:44:35 ring-rang-rung, sing-sang-sung, bring-brang-brung... 01:45:00 brot 01:45:12 boring. (borang, borung :P) 01:45:49 P: 01:46:02 I can't do that, my tongue's not long enough. 01:46:35 proto-indoeuropean was a badass language 01:46:58 oerjan: based on phonology alone, even 01:47:08 yep 01:47:13 (French verbs are regular too! devoir-dû, avoir-eu, lire-lu, mouvoir-mu, pouvoir-pu, savoir-su, taire-tu, voir-vu...) 01:47:34 (s/mu/mû/) 01:47:44 boily: but you can't blame those on PIE so much 01:48:21 drive drove driven dive dove divven? 01:48:21 my feeling is that pouvoir and voir can be easily traced back to PIE without too many changes. 01:48:37 maybe a time traveller took french back and it eventually turned into PIE 01:48:52 drive driven, gave given, it's dangerous to stay ♪ 01:49:03 boily: well sure, but the fact they're that irregular in french isn't really PIE's fault 01:49:11 potere 01:49:16 unlike sing/sang/sung 01:49:24 oren: potesse, actually 01:49:26 wait 01:49:28 *posse 01:49:36 wait 01:49:41 let me look it up 01:50:08 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/possum#Latin 01:50:11 posse was right 01:50:33 so yeah it was irregular in latin but french turned it up a notch 01:50:52 voir wasn't really that irregular though 01:50:58 I like the way only two verbs in Japanese are irregular 01:51:02 ...ok maybe a little 01:51:26 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:51:29 unfortunately they are very common verbs 01:51:52 -!- ^v^v has joined. 01:51:54 avoir and être have endless resources of fun! syncretism for the win! 01:52:15 i think avoir was entirely regular in latin 01:53:01 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/habeo 01:53:02 j'ai, j'aurai, j'avais, j'ai eu, que j'aie... 01:53:35 je suis, je serai, j'étais, j'ai été, que je sois. 01:53:38 être not so much, and i learned the other day that some of that _does_ go back to PIE 01:54:43 taberu-tabenai-tabeta-tabemasu(eat) iru-inai-itta-imasu(to be) but then... kuru-konai-katta-kimasu(to come, WTF) 01:54:45 Spanish kept their ser y estar separate, whereas we conflagrated ours. 01:55:17 hm i'm not sure whether ha in norwegian counts as irregular or not. 01:55:19 oren: I'm drawing a blank for する's past... 01:55:27 boily: that means to burn, you want conflated, to conflagrated 01:55:29 være (to be) certainly does 01:55:44 `? conflagration 01:55:45 conflagration? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:55:52 darn. what was it again? 01:56:03 oren: I know. it was entirely volitional. 01:56:05 otoh verbs have so few forms you can't really get up to french proportions regardless 01:56:15 `? szoup 01:56:16 A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit. 01:56:21 nope. 01:56:21 `run ls wisdom/*con* 01:56:22 wisdom/conspirabiology \ wisdom/context 01:56:29 `run ls wisdom/*fla* 01:56:30 wisdom/disflagrate \ wisdom/flagpole \ wisdom/weetoflake 01:56:30 `? disflagration 01:56:31 disflagration? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:56:34 `? disflagrate 01:56:35 disflagrate v.t.perf.: a traditional technique from Poland (earliest attestation c. 1042) used to separate szoups. Nowadays, commercial production is entirely mechanized. 01:57:12 suru-shinai-shita-shimasu is a little more regular than kuru 01:57:31 'night all! 01:57:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CARTILAGINOUS CHICKEN). 01:59:24 oren: so that makes 3 irregular verbs? 01:59:37 * oerjan recalls reading once that turkish has only 1 01:59:42 (to be) 02:02:14 "Almost all Turkish verbs are conjugated in the same way, most notable exception being the irregular and defective verb i-, the Turkish copula (corresponding to English to be) [...]" 02:02:29 i guess as usual, exaggerated 02:04:11 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:06:19 oerjan: yeah. the three would be kuru, suru, and aru which goes aru-nai-atta-arimasu 02:06:44 everything else falls into one of two patterns 02:07:18 `? weeotflake 02:07:19 weeotflake? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:07:23 `? weetoflake 02:07:24 Weetoflakes are something Taneb invented; they taste sort of purple. 02:07:36 That is satisfactory. 02:08:41 `run ls wisdom/*fal* 02:08:43 wisdom/false 02:08:46 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:08:53 `? false 02:08:54 false is a very old stack-based language. For an authentic experience, run it on an Amiga. It's also not true. 02:10:51 -!- olsner has joined. 02:12:50 -!- vodkode has joined. 02:32:55 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:33:13 -!- TieSoul has joined. 02:49:57 how the hell am I suppose to remember which is conjunction and which is disjunction? why can't we call them anding and orring? 02:51:29 anding normal form is an anding of orrings of literals, where a literal is either an atom or its notting. 02:51:50 notting orrible about that 02:56:25 -!- shachaf has joined. 02:58:25 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:59:31 hi shachaf! 02:59:54 hi oerjan 03:28:54 -!- vodkode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:32:16 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:44:50 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:08:08 -!- vodkode has joined. 04:11:14 -!- adu has joined. 04:25:51 -!- edwardk has joined. 04:42:34 hi edwardk 04:47:36 heya 04:48:10 oerjan: complete coïncidence hth 04:48:25 shachaf: IF YOU SAY SO 04:53:09 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:55:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:58:49 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:01:58 -!- oren has joined. 05:02:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:29:04 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 07:00:16 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:02:56 -!- vodkode has joined. 07:06:13 -!- L8D has joined. 07:06:43 is there a channel for discussion around experimental programming language design? 07:06:53 or is that this channel? 07:07:14 or maybe there's a forum I should go to 07:07:31 ostensibly, yes 07:07:37 in practice, it's a channel for discussion of anything bug 07:07:40 *but 07:07:46 but yeah, programming language discussion is welcome 07:08:03 so I'm just looking for opinions on this one language I'm designing 07:08:33 is it a brainfuck variant? 07:08:40 nope 07:08:41 http://lpaste.net/127721 07:08:56 It's not esoteric in the sense the befunge and brainfuck are 07:09:06 which is why I'm curious if this is the right channel 07:09:49 is this... defining the values in terms of the functions, rather than the functions in terms of the values? 07:09:55 imo this is the right channel for anything in theoretical computer science 07:09:58 basically, it's a combination of Haskell and an absurd Self dialect 07:10:33 yeah this is definitely the right channel for htat 07:10:44 myname: I'd love to chat about quantum algorithms sometime 07:10:57 coppro: ok so here's the thing 07:11:10 there are two types of values 07:11:13 functions, and objects 07:11:15 f x 07:11:26 is f is a function, then it is applying f to x 07:11:30 if * 07:11:47 if f is an object, then it is calling/retrieving the method x of f 07:12:23 at the top-level are namespace declarations 07:12:31 well, class declarations 07:13:12 a class declaration is just a namespace of functions 07:13:19 have you seen http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 07:13:21 ? 07:13:24 I have 07:13:38 I think I wrote an article in there actually 07:13:46 but it was a long time ago, and I was dumb 07:13:56 (and for a brainfuck derivative) 07:14:07 that's ok, a lot of them are dumb... oh nevermind, you suck 07:14:16 :P 07:14:21 but seriously, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tarpit 07:14:32 who came up with that crap? 07:15:46 I'm just here to get some first thoughts on the syntax and general ideas behind the language 07:16:13 or any suggestions on good ways to implement it, or where to learn to write a specification for it 07:16:38 I'm not so good on the thinking bit 07:17:10 implementation side, usually you want to go lexer -> parser -> AST -> semantic analysis -> generation/execution 07:17:18 well I know that 07:17:26 ah ok, good :) 07:17:36 for the grammar, decide what your tokens are, and then write a grammar 07:17:40 I've written a few toy-language interpreters in my time 07:17:53 I'm also currently writing a parser for this exact code 07:17:59 ah, ok 07:18:23 I'm not really sure what advice I could offer on implementation then 07:18:37 that's ok 07:18:58 Also, I need a good name 07:18:59 unless you have specific questions 07:19:07 how are you on spec writing? 07:19:30 I've never written a formal language spec before 07:19:37 so I don't know where to start 07:20:22 there are a number of approaches. Often a very readable way is to take the grammar, and basically annotate the productions 07:21:39 there tends to be a fair bit of boilerplate, like the part where you explain your variant of EBNF 07:24:04 on the semantics side of things, I have no idea how I'm going to implement monadic blocks, and how I'm going to solve type ambiguity problems 07:24:20 monadic blocks? 07:25:04 as in, multi-line blocks of monadic computations 07:25:17 like do-blocks? 07:25:19 in terms of syntax though 07:25:22 yeah do-blocks 07:25:34 go the agda route and just allow inventing arbitrary syntax :P 07:25:58 well part of the purpose of the language is to have incredibly minimal/simple syntax 07:26:06 have you seen agda? 07:26:33 I've seen Idris and Haskell, and the only thing I know about agda is that you can use anything as a variable name 07:26:38 it's a fascinating example of custom syntax gone horribly wrong. 07:26:45 or horribly right, depending on perspective 07:27:09 yeah, in agda there are a very small number of reserved characters, and as long as you don't use one, you can write whatever. 07:27:11 for example, if statements look like: if some_expr then true_case else false_case 07:27:14 BUT 07:27:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:27:25 sort of 07:27:30 that is because 'if' is the 'id' function (alternate name) 07:27:36 the name is actually if_then_else 07:27:38 err 07:27:40 if_then_else_ 07:27:47 the underscores represent places for arguments 07:27:50 and 'then' is a method on booleans to return maybes 07:28:02 and 'else' is a method on maybes to unwrap themselves 07:28:23 there's also the 'case' method on booleans for doing this without the extra syntax 07:28:29 some_expr if true_case false_case 07:28:35 whoops 07:28:35 yeah, that's not how it's done 07:28:37 see 07:28:39 http://wiki.portal.chalmers.se/agda/pmwiki.php?n=ReferenceManual.Mixfix 07:28:43 some_expr case true_case false_case 07:28:47 no no no 07:28:48 dude 07:28:51 I'm talking about my language 07:28:53 oerjan: Did they ever take care of the issue with ":i ->" in ghci? 07:28:57 L8D: ohhhhh 07:31:07 another problem I have 07:31:54 since all types are inferred, creating and using monads and custom types will be a problem 07:32:09 which is the type ambiguity problem 07:32:21 right 07:32:30 so there probably will have to be some way of annotating types, but the under-the-hood type system is too crazy 07:33:11 shachaf: um i didn't get any real response so i assume not? 07:33:14 to achieve class-less polymorphism I have to denote types as sets of possible methods and their types 07:33:36 oerjan: I'm talking about a different bug I reported a while ago, where :i (->) works and :i -> doesn't. 07:33:41 oh. 07:33:47 Oh, I guess your bug is old, I thought it was from just now. 07:33:56 But it's the patch which is from just now. 07:34:14 it's not that old 07:34:20 a month or so? 07:34:24 12 days 07:34:48 wait argh 07:35:23 I also have no idea how inheritance will work 07:36:22 shachaf: i didn't get it in the mail yet 07:36:38 Oh. I did. 07:36:39 and have been missing Cc: messages from the trac 07:37:29 why isn't that phab thing a link 07:38:23 also int-e has also been missing some, so it's not just my mail 07:38:54 shachaf: wait obviously you don't count, ghc-tickets is working fine. 07:39:09 but i am not subscribing to that, just Cc:ed 07:39:39 It's annoying when that when you subscribe to ghc-tickets, tickets you're Cc:ed on stop reaching you. 07:39:54 Somehow it all gets merged into one. There isn't a way to discriminate even in the headers. 07:40:10 oh well at least the trac allows me to search for what i'm Cc:ed on 07:40:51 except that doesn't _really_ help because the search doesn't have any "last change" column 07:41:46 so where does one report a bug in the trac itself :P 07:43:13 to achieve class-less polymorphism I have to denote types as sets of possible methods and their types <-- sounds like ocaml except it has classes too 07:45:08 and iirc some extra hoops you have to go through when using subclasses 07:45:54 oh wait it's a link in the status menu 07:47:26 oerjan: https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/query?status=closed&status=infoneeded&status=merge&status=new&status=patch&status=upstream&cc=~oerjan&col=id&col=summary&col=status&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&col=milestone&col=changetime&order=changetime hth 07:47:43 aha 07:47:44 you gotta click on the thing that says columns 07:47:50 i didn't see it at first either 07:51:07 ok all is ... well, not quite as annoying 07:54:08 This Cc: bug must be a conspiracy, since I just look at all the tickets as a result. 07:55:04 -!- vodkode has left ("Leaving"). 07:55:13 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:46:38 -!- L8D has joined. 08:56:45 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 08:59:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:19:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:22:03 -!- v^ has joined. 09:23:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:25:41 -!- ^v^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:37:55 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:37:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:44:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:10:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:23:09 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:36:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:10:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:15:10 [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42147&oldid=42146 * Keymaker * (+189) /* Knuth's Arrow Notation */ 11:28:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:47:46 -!- S1 has joined. 11:48:11 -!- S1 has left. 12:56:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:05:10 -!- Decim has joined. 13:06:25 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:07:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:09:33 `olist 978 13:09:34 olist 978: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 13:15:10 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:16:33 -!- Decim has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:37:44 -!- password2 has joined. 13:37:49 -!- L8D has joined. 13:37:59 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:42:37 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:51:50 -!- hjulle has joined. 14:07:12 "On behalf of IT, this IT Alert Notification was brought to you by the Help Desk in the Customer Support Department. This is a group email account and its been monitored 24/7, therefore, please do not ignore this notification, because its very compulsory." 14:07:35 signed "Admin Service", and copyright to "Microsoft outlook" 14:08:50 :/ 14:09:08 Spam? 14:09:45 how could it not be spam 14:15:11 -!- v^ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:15:35 -!- v^ has joined. 14:17:28 Very compulsory spam,. 14:17:48 -!- adu has joined. 14:32:41 and even copyrighted 14:34:26 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:35:32 password2: that makes it official. 14:36:37 -!- bb010g has joined. 14:36:50 ofc 14:37:53 password2, stop hacking all my accounts and display my secret passwords in public like that! 14:38:02 so annoying 14:38:17 ok 14:40:19 * Zuu rolls the number on all his passwords, again! 14:43:57 3 14:44:25 Argh! 14:47:29 12 -i6.28 14:55:05 Is that 12-itau? 14:55:58 ais523: If spam was real, everybody would be so rich 14:56:33 FreeFull: nah, if spam was real, nobody's email account would work 14:56:41 so you wouldn't be able to receive the trillion dollar donations 14:57:22 That is a very complex password 14:59:59 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:01:49 FreeFull: yes 15:07:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:07:51 -!- password2 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:11:57 -!- oren has joined. 15:37:29 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:46:03 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:53:58 -!- hjulle has joined. 15:54:33 -!- oren has joined. 16:03:04 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:21:15 -!- L8D has joined. 16:25:49 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:26:12 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:33:21 -!- ^v^v has joined. 16:37:47 -!- v^ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:56:45 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:04:15 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 17:07:25 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:31:52 [wiki] [[Talk:QWERTY Keyboard Dot Language]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42148 * 80.222.241.129 * (+2) Created page with "xd" 17:47:45 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:50:10 Which programming languages are usable (by which i mean, by madmen, not necessary regular people) as an OS interface? 17:50:56 IIRC lisp and forth were used, are there any others 17:52:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:56:00 oren: what do you mean "an OS interface"? 17:56:09 do you mean like a shell? 17:56:21 b_jonas: yeah in the same capacity as a shell 17:56:29 BASIC definitely then 17:56:35 in old computers, BASIC was the shell 17:56:43 Oh right *slaps forhed* 17:57:57 Perl could work, I wonder if anyone does that 17:58:33 well, I have a rescue entry in the window manager menu to start a terminal emulator with perl loaded, in case I mess up the shell so much it can't start 17:58:47 as in, while the computer and X11 and the window manager is already running 17:59:03 ah 17:59:16 but you could basically use anything that way, not only perl 17:59:47 you could use, say, emacs (I don't have one on my machine but you know) 17:59:51 or vim 18:00:13 Anything that has the ability to run external programs anyway, certainly 18:00:23 PHP 18:00:25 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSoul_. 18:00:26 anyway, some APL and the smalltalk ide were used as shells 18:00:32 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 18:00:37 eww no, not php 18:00:51 ruby (irb) or python rather 18:01:59 [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42149&oldid=42147 * SuperJedi224 * (+12) /* Knuth's Arrow Notation */ 18:02:07 [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42150&oldid=42149 * SuperJedi224 * (+96) /* Knuth's Arrow Notation */ 18:07:45 Madmen? grub2 command line 18:09:55 EFI shell 18:22:14 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:22:41 -!- ^v^v has joined. 18:24:37 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:25:48 [wiki] [[Matrix]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42151&oldid=17326 * 85.250.112.204 * (+0) 18:39:40 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:40:56 -!- perrier has joined. 18:41:18 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:42:31 -!- perrier has joined. 18:43:18 -!- perrier has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:44:34 -!- perrier has joined. 18:54:45 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 18:57:22 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 19:00:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:04:29 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:05:52 -!- perrier has joined. 19:08:33 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:12:28 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:13:45 -!- perrier has joined. 19:17:27 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:21:56 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 19:31:47 is there some windows program that can tell me which program is opening iexplore in the background? 19:36:47 quintopia: any program that uses windows's XML parsing library, I hear 19:39:37 so meta... http://www.sandraandwoo.com/2015/03/19/0668-deus-ex-machina/ 19:40:20 quintopia: I'd look into the Sysinternals stuff. 19:40:38 https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb795533.aspx has some overview list 19:41:11 Process Explorer/Monitor tend to be the most generally useful. 19:43:08 what would happen if I ran pkill pkill 19:43:25 would the process commit suicide 19:43:58 hmm, how would I tell? 19:44:01 > killall killall 19:44:01 killall: no process found 19:44:02 Not in scope: ‘killall’Not in scope: ‘killall’ 19:44:12 @botsnack 19:44:12 :) 19:44:47 pkill is silent, killall returns an error 19:46:39 but pkill pkill doesn't attempt to kill itself either. It will kill other running copies of pkill, however. 19:47:17 (tested with strace -ekill pkill pkill and gdb for having a stopped pkill around) 19:48:03 All 19:48:10 Your 19:48:20 Processes 19:48:25 Are 19:48:29 Belong 19:48:33 To 19:48:49 Teh NSA 19:48:52 * int-e is ashamed. 19:49:23 (I expected U.S.) 19:49:36 I wasn't even born when that game came out 19:50:17 I was born then, I never played the game. It didn't save me from the meme. 19:50:23 Quality of translations has gone way up 19:51:04 -!- Fleur has joined. 19:51:05 (The meme was started much later anyway; in 2000/2001, according to Wikipedia) 19:51:32 Maybe it had to wait until most games had good translation 19:51:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:52:52 Nowadays even games that have a bad translation at first are likely to be patched later on. Without broadband internet, patches were really rare. 19:53:27 zero wings? 19:53:27 (Just imagine, software back then had to work out of the box!) 19:54:00 int-e: well, even then software had bugs and sometimes had newer fixed versions released 19:54:08 (Though of course, there were plenty of bugs back then as well.) 19:54:52 MAIA HIII MAIA HUUU MAIA HAAA MAIA HAHA 19:55:03 of course only some bugs got fixed, others remained because they didn't impact normal gameplay much, or because they would have been technically difficult to fix with the limited hardware 19:55:51 b_jonas: Some bugs were awesome, for example the one in pokemon that let you get mew 19:56:25 get mew? you're not supposed to do that 19:56:35 what happens if you get mew? can you have it fight? 19:56:42 Yes 19:56:52 and which game is that? 19:57:03 pokemon red/blue 19:57:59 well that game was full of crazy bugs, basically the item screen can be glitched into modifying arbitrary memory 19:58:52 -!- L8D has joined. 20:00:45 yes, I know 20:01:40 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:03:38 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:20:52 -!- FleurRose has joined. 20:21:58 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 20:22:23 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 20:22:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:23:14 -!- Fleur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:28:04 -!- Lymia has joined. 21:07:31 [wiki] [[ArrayZ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42152&oldid=40653 * GeorgeEpicGen * (-4055) This page is to be deleted 21:08:11 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42153&oldid=42139 * GeorgeEpicGen * (-13) /* A */ 21:08:29 `? the US 21:08:30 The US is the country opposed to the THEM. 21:08:45 `? canada 21:08:46 Canada is Big Scotland. Like, you know, very big. 21:08:50 lol 21:09:34 You have no chance to survive make your time 21:10:48 Someone should make a game and translate it that badly into japanese 21:21:32 Hmm... it's actually hard to make errors in Japanese that don't just sound like colloquial 21:23:43 But then "what you say" is sort of correct colloquial english 21:24:48 Which natural language is the most fault-tolerant 21:35:28 Actually, typewritten japanese is extremely un fault tolerant because of the kanji. 21:50:47 oren, Well you can probably make yourself at least partially understood in most natural languages when it comes to wording and such. Even if it isn't idiomatic or even correct, there is enough information for a human to guess what was meant 21:55:12 -!- boily has joined. 21:56:12 -!- FleurRose has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:01:34 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 22:07:08 -!- Fleur has joined. 22:28:59 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Iamevn * New user account 22:42:47 [wiki] [[User talk:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42154&oldid=41325 * SuperJedi224 * (+238) /* Developing a language which compiles to BrainF*** */ new section 22:43:06 [wiki] [[User talk:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42155&oldid=42154 * SuperJedi224 * (+13) /* Developing a language which compiles to BrainF*** */ 22:44:02 [wiki] [[User talk:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42156&oldid=42155 * SuperJedi224 * (+89) /* Developing a language which compiles to BrainF*** */ 22:44:56 [wiki] [[User talk:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42157&oldid=42156 * SuperJedi224 * (+26) /* Developing a language which compiles to BrainF*** */ 22:46:28 -!- adu has joined. 22:46:48 [wiki] [[User talk:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42158&oldid=42157 * SuperJedi224 * (+82) /* Developing a language which compiles to BrainF*** */ 22:50:37 -!- Fleur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:04:35 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 23:06:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:06:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:06:10 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 23:24:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:25:43 @tell Gregor the logs' time is 3 minutes early hth 23:25:43 Consider it noted. 23:27:53 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:36:17 -!- L8D has joined. 23:38:40 `olist 978 <-- nice title 23:39:23 -!- GeekDude has joined. 23:39:27 (i only recognize the reference because of sheldon's poetry comics) 23:40:14 but i shall presume all americans read it in school, or something 23:41:07 oh or british 23:41:08 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:47:36 hellørjan. sheldon? 23:49:22 helløily 23:51:06 shëllochëllof. 23:51:06 http://www.sheldoncomics.com/ 23:51:16 tdh. 23:52:12 Emperor of Canada. I dig that. 23:52:17 ywoily 23:52:39 darn i haven't checked it yet today 23:53:03 oh no new one 23:53:08 it's a bit erratic 23:57:12 “Type, Duck”. I really hope it's not some horrible stealth pun. 23:57:28 um when was that 2015-03-20: 00:03:18 in the first bunch of the comics around the beginning of the start... 00:03:55 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:05:40 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:06:42 * oerjan swats boily after clicking through _far_ too many comics without finding it -----### 00:07:54 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 00:10:24 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:10:50 * boily ducks 00:11:21 boily: stop referring to nonexisting comics twh 00:12:52 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 00:27:16 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:28:06 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 00:29:34 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:35:44 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: updating fonts). 00:36:30 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:37:10 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:43:08 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:46:15 oh the many kinds of duck typing 00:47:14 if it quacks like a duck http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/011211.html and swims like a duck http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/011213.html and types like a duck http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/011228.html then it must be a duck 00:48:39 @int-esnack 00:48:39 Unknown command, try @list 00:49:58 boily: my impression is that kellett probably isn't a programmer and wouldn't know what duck typing means. 00:51:56 he is however well educated in english, spanish, and cartoon art propaganda 00:52:13 oh and literature. 00:54:10 also, searching for kellett brought up in the "people also search for" section: http://geekadelphia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/dr_strange.jpg 00:54:42 (that's brad guigar) 00:54:53 -!- bb010g has joined. 01:01:17 yeah, ok, not a programmer... http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/020124.html 01:02:24 it _is_ conceivable he knows html, i think he has a website or something. 01:02:40 oh and http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20150313 is still grey ... 01:03:03 but if he were a programmer, he'd be able to get his bloody archives working properly. 01:03:08 oerjan: I expect a programmer would start with IP, TCP or *maybe* HTTP, but not HTML 01:03:19 (trying to find old drive comics is painful.) 01:03:38 maybe I'm expecting too much 01:04:08 (basically, having only the last year listed in the archives isn't very good when you've essentially been on a >1 year hiatus...) 01:04:45 when you add that the comic has _always_ been sporadically posted _and_ urls are date-based... 01:04:50 * boily is accruing his GG debt, one day at a time... 01:05:20 oerjan: right, the sporadic updates kill it. 01:06:02 for girl genius, i know it's regular so i can skip a week back or forth 01:06:08 it's actually quite possible to navigate GG by date because in at most 3 guesses you'll hit a comic 01:06:09 and there are chapter links 01:06:16 heh 01:06:45 oh i don't guess, i find the right chapter and then skip in week increments 01:07:30 or multiples of them 01:07:40 Yes, discovering the chapter index was a huge boon 01:08:19 but I tend to skip by months, and being too lazy to do the math *g* 01:08:56 now if yafgc could get its archives back. having an arc with _huge_ connections to past events going on at the same time as a big subset of the archives are not there is also painful. 01:09:25 int-e: heh 01:10:25 i'm sort of half-lazy, i'll skip weeks within a month but then sometimes use prev/next to cross month boundaries 01:10:39 wonderful python feature someone pointed out: 01:10:49 x = [1]; (9,x)[1] += [2] 01:11:07 can you guess what that does? print an error? modify x? 01:11:26 I just keep the last comic i've read bookmarkes 01:11:28 TypeError: 'tuple' object does not support item assignment 01:11:34 the answer is both hth 01:11:34 shachaf: no, I can't guess. 01:11:46 shachaf: wat 01:11:47 TypeHellor! 01:12:29 shachaf: that is vile. that is very vile. 01:12:34 oren: nah i only do that for the darths & droids alternative comics 01:12:37 what the fuck. what the fuck. what the fuck. 01:12:58 I haven't found any such weirdness in Rust yet 01:13:14 Other than surprising method dispatch sometimes with references 01:13:24 how do you even manage to mess it up like that 01:13:39 18:13 if you read the bytecode it's pretty clear why, it pulls the element of the tuple out, does an inplace add on it, and then tries to put it back in the tuple and dies 01:13:43 18:13 and if the inplace add mutates then rip 01:14:01 is this 3 or 2? 01:14:14 that is profundly disgusting. 01:14:24 copumpkin: Both. 01:14:36 The equivalent in Rust would need &mut and * 01:14:42 fungot: please telle me you aren't as corrupted as that. 01:14:43 boily: as soon as they finish that target they'll work on a windows box here and i don't know 01:14:54 fungot: yikes! 01:14:54 boily: modify the code... i think, but thanks 01:15:05 let mut x = 1; *(9,&mut x) += 2; // This will work 01:15:11 Oops 01:15:15 let mut x = 1; *(9,&mut x).1 += 2; // This will work 01:16:21 int a[10]; 01:16:23 oren: the only comic i read in batches such that it would make sense to bookmark the last one is smbc, but that has no continuity... 01:16:27 #define A [a] 01:16:35 2A + 1 01:16:43 2A+=1 01:17:08 is that monstrous or what 01:17:53 -!- Lymia has joined. 01:19:34 does that even work 01:19:40 elliott: of course 01:19:43 oren: I've seen worse 01:19:54 (in IOCCC, of course) 01:20:08 % { echo '#define A q'; echo 2A } | clang -E - | tail -n 1 01:20:08 2A 01:20:13 elliott: recall that a[b] = *(a+b) and + is commutative 01:20:19 int-e: 2 A would work. 01:20:20 2A doesn't. 01:21:08 oh. needs cpp -traditional 01:22:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:24:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:24:32 if you allow -traditional, you will get something more strange: 01:24:32 ~$ ( echo '#define A(x) "x"'; echo 'A(v)' ) | cpp -E -traditional - | grep '^[^#]' 01:24:35 "v" 01:30:11 Wait. Even if modern cpp does tokens, how the heck is "2A" a token!?!? 01:33:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: AZURE CHICKEN). 01:35:21 Oh. the lexer thinks "2A" is an integer with a size affix? 01:35:44 2 awesomeint 01:36:23 Hmm. #define A a] 2[A 01:36:49 AAAAAAAAAAAAA 01:38:38 oh my "A preprocessing number begins with a digit optionally preceded by a period (.) and may be followed by valid identifier characters and the character sequences e+, e-, E+, E-, p+, p-, P+, or P-." Okay. 01:39:36 1thisisavalidnubmer 01:39:38 2wrongsdonotmake+1right 01:40:17 covering all the bases 01:40:44 elliott: thanks. 01:41:07 order-pp does 8foo for all its syntax things 01:41:09 like 8if(...) 01:42:57 int-e: That's... rather impressive. 01:43:55 -!- vodkode has joined. 01:48:54 oh, of course these pp-tokens can still be used for concatenation to produce identifiers. 01:49:05 so evil 01:50:34 -!- adu has joined. 01:50:47 oh, i see because although 2A is a number, a ## 2A beigns with a letter and is therefore an identifier 01:55:34 a ## 2e+2 02:00:09 "If the result [of ##] is not a valid preprocessing token, the behavior is undefined." 02:00:16 So good luck with that. 02:00:25 darn 02:18:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:18:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 02:21:09 struct wtf{struct wtf(*x)();}; extern struct wtf srsly; int main(){srsly.x().x().x().x();/*trololol*/} 02:23:49 struct wtf wut;while(wut.x)wut=wut.x(); 02:26:51 hmm, can this be made a bit more screwy? 02:32:55 -!- hjulle has joined. 02:50:23 what if I rename x to oO 02:50:45 o_O 02:50:51 hth 02:51:15 srsly.Oo().Oo(); 02:52:07 srsly.Oo().oO(); 03:05:38 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 03:13:47 -!- L8D has joined. 03:18:31 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:23:03 -!- L8D has joined. 03:26:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:43:10 bah i've drunk too much coke 03:45:36 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:48:47 oerjan: drink water 03:49:08 DONE 03:49:35 * oerjan had a cup on the table which he'd forgot 03:52:03 -!- GeekDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:57:46 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:05:37 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:06:53 -!- perrier has joined. 04:18:39 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:28:19 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:35:01 "It has sometimes been suggested that half pi should be called hi, and written τ. Explain why this idea was not discovered until recently." 04:35:50 Is this from a world where pi = circumference / radius? 04:37:16 Oh, Jafet already asked me that in the past. 04:38:02 FreeFull: it could be a world where pi = diameter / circumference hth 04:38:19 oerjan: Could be 04:54:23 -!- L8D has joined. 04:57:20 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:59:11 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:59:51 -!- Lymia has joined. 05:04:58 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 05:08:11 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:24:13 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:30:01 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:39:34 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:40:10 -!- Lymia has joined. 06:21:22 -!- FallNWolf has quit. 06:41:26 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:58:05 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:20:33 Why is past me an idiot who leaves things to the night before? 07:21:45 maybe he's shifted in time 07:27:46 oren: many people do that 07:27:51 me too 07:29:48 Well now future me is going to have to survive another ~20 hours without sleep 07:31:00 or maybe pass out in a subway station or something 07:32:37 good luck 07:34:21 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:34:26 I'd better work on the graphics assignment due in a week or so... naaaaahh 07:40:07 can't you still get 3 or 4 hours of sleep out of this night? 07:47:59 -!- L8D has joined. 07:53:11 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:53:48 int-e that is also a good idea 08:07:51 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:25:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:28:26 -!- Frooxius has joined. 09:19:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:54:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:57:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:24:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:26:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:30:44 hmm, I'm getting this bug that makes no sense 10:31:01 it feels a bit like a compiler bug, but I can't reproduce it in a simple program 10:31:25 gdb shows that I'm passing an argument to a function, and the argument that actually arrives at that function is different 10:31:56 -!- boily has joined. 10:32:06 this is across a shared library boundary across a pair of nested function pointers, which would explain why it hadn't been caught before, at least 10:34:58 ais523, are you willing/able to share the source of the offending program? 10:35:12 Taneb: yes but it's pretty large 10:35:20 given that the shared library in question is libnethack 10:35:50 I seem to remember something like this having happened befoer 10:35:53 anyway, I'm working on a testbench 10:36:04 and wanted to get it working before I pushed the first version 10:36:08 I guess I could push an interim version 10:40:22 Taneb: git clone -b testbench http://nethack4.org/media/nethack4.git 10:41:18 build and install according to the normal build instructions, then run testbench/src/testmain.c/testmain.bin from the build directory 10:48:06 ais523: memory corruption? is this optimized? what system and compiler? 10:48:28 b_jonas: -Og, gcc (Ubuntu 4.9.1-16ubuntu6) 4.9.1 10:49:02 I see 10:49:34 if I change "callback" to "msg_getlin_callback" (i.e. hardcoding its value), everything works fine; that may well be because it's a private function, though 10:49:42 thus forcing aimake to change the link to static to be able to get at it 10:49:49 on line 747 of testgame.c 10:50:29 (the problem is that the pointer "lin" given as an argument to the callback is a different pointer from the pointer that the callback receives in its first argument, but only the second time test_getlin is called) 10:50:34 ais523: how reproducible is this? 10:50:50 ais523: and have you tried to run with valgrind and/or gcc's undefined behaviour catcher traps? 10:52:43 b_jonas: 100% reproducible; valgrind reports reading uninitialized data inside msg_getlin_callback (blaming a stack allocation on messages.c:42, which only allocates one variable and it's initialized); I haven't tried with ubsan 10:53:18 luckily I don't really have much experience hunting down these kinds of bugs 10:55:06 this one's just a flat out case of the code making no sense 10:55:14 hmm, I wonder what ltrace will see at the API boundary 10:55:37 are you using a recent enough gdb? 10:56:01 if not, I definitely recommend you to upgrade it 11:02:23 hmm, ltrace can't see the calls in question at all (presumably it can't see calls made via function pointers), but it is reporting double or even triple frees that valgrind didn't see 11:05:20 :-( 11:06:02 ais523: is it possible that you have declared the function differently in different source files, or cast it to the wrong type of function pointer? 11:07:19 void (*callback)(const char *lin, void *arg) ... void msg_getlin_callback(const char *str, void *msg_to_fill) 11:07:20 it matches 11:09:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: meeting). 11:17:15 -!- hjulle has joined. 11:19:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PLUS-VALUE CHICKEN). 11:25:27 -!- L8D has joined. 11:30:00 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:58:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:58:49 [wiki] [[ReThue]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42159 * SuperJedi224 * (+1136) Created page with "'''ReThue''' is a superset of the [[Thue]] language proposed by [[User:SuperJedi224]]. It adds javascript-style Regular Expression constructs, and slightly improves the input ..." 12:00:54 [wiki] [[ReThue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42160&oldid=42159 * SuperJedi224 * (+22) 12:03:12 [wiki] [[ReThue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42161&oldid=42160 * SuperJedi224 * (+30) 12:03:25 [wiki] [[ReThue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42162&oldid=42161 * SuperJedi224 * (-10) 12:03:47 [wiki] [[ReThue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42163&oldid=42162 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) 12:04:46 [wiki] [[ReThue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42164&oldid=42163 * SuperJedi224 * (+46) 12:05:28 [wiki] [[ReThue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42165&oldid=42164 * SuperJedi224 * (+8) 12:06:02 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42166&oldid=42153 * SuperJedi224 * (+13) /* R */ 12:06:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:12:11 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:14:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:23:18 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:33:15 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:36:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:36:34 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 12:45:18 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 12:58:40 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:17:02 -!- L8D has joined. 13:23:04 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:34:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:06:09 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:27:51 It feels like I don't need C++ I just need a larger C library 14:30:10 Specifically, one with better functions for strings and dynamic arrays 14:30:35 it's very hard to write useful type-generic libraries in C. 14:30:56 elliott: is it? 14:31:01 yes 14:31:05 why? 14:31:08 C++ templates are a big win for that purpose 14:31:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: low battery, I'll be back once I've plugged my laptop in). 14:31:34 b/c without preprocessor hackery, the best you can do is make everything (void *), sacrificing type safety just like Java did when you had to cast everything to and from Object to put it into containers, and also requiring boxing 14:31:49 (i.e., your structure cannot store the data inline, it must be indirect through a pointer, likely incurring a heap allocation) 14:32:04 preprocessor hackery works to define type-generic structures, but it's incredibly ugly and annoying to use 14:32:40 shoudln't that be char* not void*? 14:32:54 um 14:33:00 I don't know what makes you say that but I'm pretty sure the answer is no 14:33:07 (unless you use gcc extension allowing pointer arith on void*) 14:33:44 I mean,consider qsort and bsearch 14:33:57 qsort uses void *... 14:34:12 you can just cast to char * if you want 14:36:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:37:00 I think you can still store the data inline 14:37:21 you simply allocate a char[] of the appropriate size 14:37:55 you also need to think about things like internal pointers in data structures 14:38:18 it's hard. anyway it's horribly unpleasant in manual in C to do the thing you really want, and you don't get type-safety out of it 14:38:36 you're likely to be much happier at least flicking your compiler's C++ switch on and just using templates and nothing else 14:38:59 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:40:12 elliott: what if we simply pass an initializer and destructor to the make_array() function? 14:40:44 (in the same way that we pass a comparator to qsort) 14:40:46 yes, what if we just manually run C++ -> C compilers in our head and abandon readability or safety 14:40:53 imo this will be fun and not at all pointlessly torturous for us 14:42:00 I mean really what you do in C is just hand-code all your structures or deal with the excessive heap allocation and indirection and lack of type safety 14:42:08 because getting what you really want is too hellish 14:42:18 and this is why writing C is tedious 14:43:25 glib is a pretty good example of the "just deal with the indirection and lack of type safety of boxing everything" 14:43:30 and I mean it works but it's not very fun 14:43:45 and if you don't care about laying things out well in memory or the costs of heap allocation then why on earth are you writing in C 14:46:49 glib has a bit of "store data inline" stuff, IIRC. Based on preprocessor stuffery. 14:46:53 Because your hardware vendor has only a port of gcc 2.95 14:46:54 Like the GArray thing. 14:47:01 right 14:47:08 you can do templating with the preprocessor 14:47:11 and it works! 14:47:12 elliott: generally? because C library interfaces tend to be easier to understand than C++ interfaces 14:47:15 and it's the worst thing to maintain in the universe 14:47:30 oren: is something like std::vector really hard to understand 14:47:37 I mean sure boost or whtaever is over the top but 14:48:35 Is there anything in C++ that isn't hard to understand 14:48:37 You provide an element size in g_array_new, and the type name to a 'g_array_index' macro, and things are generally ugly. E.g. you can't g_array_append_val(array, 42) to an array of ints because it would try to do &42 in there. 14:48:40 elliott: when I use C++ it is only for the sake of string, vector, and sometimes for custom streams. 14:49:03 So apparently the sort implementation in libstdc++ doesn't use swap at all, it uses moves instead 14:49:06 http://www.reddit.com/r/changetip/comments/2zgr59/when_you_tip_the_wrong_amount_happened_to_me_at/cpisjsh ahahahahahahaha 14:49:06 Jafet: I'm not sure, trying to think of something atm 14:49:25 Why we can't have a fsopen() function converting a C string to a FILE* I don't know... 14:49:31 This means that you can write swap specializations and they won't get used, you need a move constructor instead or you will get terrible performance 14:49:48 I think if you try to write an API as convenient as std::vector that has the same memory/performance properties you want then you'll end up with a huge mass of preprocessor trickery 14:49:48 er, in C 14:50:24 So in other words, you can't sort lists of containers fast and have the container code be C++03 compatible 14:51:37 In general C++ code causes a lot of unnecessary copies (mostly because of memory ownership issues). 14:52:11 sure 14:52:13 C++ has lots of problems 14:52:21 being worse at writing generic code than C isn't one of them 14:54:19 elliott: to be fair these issues are with the standard C++ library not the language C++ itself 14:54:26 Is there any programming system that doesn't cause a lot of unnecessary copies 14:55:31 Jafet: you can only choose the extent of the problem... 14:57:46 * Gregor pokes channel. 14:57:51 I was watching and eating popcorn. 14:57:54 You can't stop the entertainment now. 14:59:01 A variant of thue where each rule may only permute existing symbols 14:59:36 Gregor: sorry, i got enlightened and realised that c is the best language ever 15:00:25 C++ is full of workarounds to the rest of C++, it's become a self-sustaining loop at this point 15:00:40 C is an ok language ruined for many purposes by its string type. 15:01:10 -!- L8D has joined. 15:01:19 The poorly chosen string type was then optimized for at the hardware level. 15:01:24 C doesn't really have a string type. 15:01:35 it just has a type that is named char for bad reasons 15:01:37 elliott: EXACTLY 15:01:52 WG21 apparently didn't consider it self-sustaining enough because they threw in a concurrent programming model 15:03:48 they added threads, so they could no longer evade the issue without looking like lunatics 15:04:50 someone (with better taste than me) should write a modern replacement C stdlib, with blackjack! And whores!^H^H^H^H^H. 15:05:27 whoren 15:07:18 int-e: they already looked like lunatics though. you stare into an abyss of C++ templates.... 15:12:33 ... abyss.staring(); 15:12:39 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:16:18 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:16:33 template struct abyss { using stare = abyss ; }; 15:31:26 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:43:07 -!- oren has joined. 15:44:56 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:45:55 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 15:49:48 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 15:57:00 -!- L8D has joined. 16:05:03 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 16:14:05 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 16:15:44 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:15:45 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 16:20:16 -!- bb010g has joined. 16:20:37 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:20:56 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 16:24:30 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 16:25:49 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:25:55 -!- J_Arcane_ has 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http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42167&oldid=42113 * Ypnypn * (+1792) /* Constants */ 18:22:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:23:03 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 18:23:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:25:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:28:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:28:45 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:28:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:28:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:35:17 [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42168&oldid=42167 * Ypnypn * (+1252) /* Constants */ 18:49:32 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 18:50:17 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:51:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:55:24 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:55:43 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 18:57:44 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:01:33 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:02:05 -!- shikhin has joined. 19:04:23 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:07:07 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joined. 20:04:15 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:08:23 -!- shikhin has joined. 20:08:27 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:15:31 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:16:45 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:18:22 -!- shikhin has joined. 20:18:44 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:27:59 -!- oren has joined. 20:28:15 Holy shit! facebook tells people your location! 20:28:43 -!- shikhin has joined. 20:28:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:30:39 which means if you happen to be seeing your mistress, and you message your wife... big trouble 20:30:55 lol 20:33:17 so whaty 20:33:49 just wait until Google Now tells you that you have an appointment with a divorce lawyer, based on the exact same information. 20:33:50 -!- shikhin has joined. 20:33:56 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:34:43 http://qdb.us/301866 is cute 20:35:16 "Siri, what are my appointments today" "Divorce lawyer at 5, and doctor at 1, you stepped in poison ivy 30 seconds ago." 20:40:00 Hmm, I was using screen through UofT's computers, but for some reason it doesn't forward utf-8 properly 20:41:57 which is important for a channel that uses as many Æあα as this one. 20:42:21 öh 20:42:48 `unicode MULTIOCULAR 20:42:50 U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O \ UTF-8: ea 99 ae UTF-16BE: a66e Decimal: ꙮ \ ꙮ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) 20:44:14 -!- shikhin has joined. 20:44:47 -!- Fleur has joined. 20:45:31 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:49:27 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:50:12 -!- CADD has joined. 21:00:49 -!- shikhin has joined. 21:01:18 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 21:01:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 21:02:02 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:05:13 fungot, don't make the others jelous of you 21:05:13 b_jonas: if you are going for fast load time, you can omit it. :) actually, i think 21:08:35 -!- shikhin has joined. 21:13:17 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:19:58 -!- Valentina has joined. 21:24:14 -!- Valentina has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:24:47 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:30:34 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:32:00 -!- Fleur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:32:07 I have SSH account, but to access some programs, I have to first SSH to one server and then from there, SSH to the server that is physically on top of that one, in order to access GCC and so on 21:40:38 `quote hth 21:40:39 No output. 21:41:15 `? hth 21:41:16 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 21:43:21 I think now I thought of the way to make in a 6502 code and using tables to make a signed 16-bit number output as a decimal format. 21:44:10 -!- nisstyre has changed nick to ihateoctal. 21:50:55 -!- ihateoctal has changed nick to nisstyre. 21:55:40 -!- zzo38 has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:55:45 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:59:26 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 21:59:55 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 22:22:28 -!- GeekDude has joined. 22:25:30 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:30:51 -!- L8D has joined. 22:36:55 -!- YogeeBear has joined. 22:37:32 -!- YogeeBear has left. 22:41:40 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:46:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:46:03 -!- vodkode has joined. 22:49:57 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting). 22:52:55 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:55:53 -!- oren has joined. 22:58:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:58:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:58:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:03:35 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: quitan). 23:46:15 `? tdh 23:46:17 tdh is the past tense of a successful hth. hth. 23:50:16 Do we have an "official", oerjan-approved way of abbreviating "that didn't help"? 23:50:57 I guess it's "tdnh". 23:51:04 `? tdnh 23:51:05 tdnh does not help 23:51:21 `? htdnh 23:51:22 htdnh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:51:59 `` ls -la wisdom/tdnh 23:52:01 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 19 Jan 6 17:40 wisdom/tdnh 23:55:20 Oh well, commit date: Mon, 01 Jul 2013 00:03:21 +0000 23:56:33 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 2015-03-21: 00:05:26 Is there any EFnet IRC server for Telus? 00:05:48 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:15:43 -!- L8D has joined. 00:20:01 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:20:45 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:25:12 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 00:32:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:37:59 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:48:13 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: See you guys at the great debugger in the sky). 00:49:53 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:54:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:06:52 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:07:04 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:11:27 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJP-VOC7IDM 01:11:49 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:11:50 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:17:58 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:26:20 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 01:38:08 -!- guawguaw has joined. 01:43:46 -!- izabera has joined. 01:53:16 -!- adu has joined. 01:56:18 `relcome izabera 01:56:20 ​izabera: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:56:38 hello :) 01:56:46 wait, are you human? 01:57:11 well i'm assuming you're human since you used a different bot <.< 01:57:28 we think elliott is human 01:57:31 fungot: Are you friends with HackEgo? 01:57:31 ProofTechnique: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/ scheme/ fnord) 01:57:42 we haven't seen conclusive proof, though 01:57:44 human is close enough :p 01:58:33 prove you're human: what is 6 times 9 ? 01:58:42 fungot: What is 6 times 9? 01:58:42 ProofTechnique: http://www.demi.fi/ fnord and the reverse of last time i checked minion is perpetually disgruntled." fnord erasmus ( paraphrased) 01:58:49 hey i can be human even if i know that! 01:58:50 beep. boop. reference recognised. beep. boop. 01:59:13 @google 6 times 9 01:59:14 54 01:59:14 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=6+times+9 01:59:14 Title: Urban Dictionary: 6 times 9 01:59:16 guawguaw | show gratis (solo hooy) --> http://s422803032.mialojamiento.es/ 01:59:38 izabera: we do sometimes have bots that use each other, though 01:59:53 i thought i was the only one who wrote such bots ._. 01:59:53 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 01:59:56 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b *!*guawguaw@84.78.23.*. 01:59:57 -!- elliott has kicked guawguaw guawguaw. 02:00:00 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 02:00:10 ^source 02:00:10 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 02:00:15 and i was just wondering whether to `relcome guawguaw 02:00:17 this is a good channel for ridiculous bot things >_> 02:00:26 haha 02:00:36 oh shit wtf is that 02:00:39 befunge 02:01:10 befunge-98, yeah 02:01:45 you're insane 02:01:53 it's fizzie's bot!! 02:01:55 but, granted. 02:02:04 The headline features -- you know, the ones I advertise to prospective licensees -- are the (n-gram) babbling, the brainfuck interpreter and the Underload interpreter. 02:02:37 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 02:02:55 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@84.78.*. 02:02:58 I already kicked guawguaw 02:02:59 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 02:03:00 oh 02:03:08 Which reminds me, I really should slap a suitable permissive license on fungot. I thought I did that. 02:03:08 fizzie: but nothing from ihope? i'm inside your mom!!! so... but given that this is a good 02:03:10 yes, i just noticed it was reusing that ip range 02:03:29 fizzie: I can't wait for the first pull request. 02:04:17 fungot is more vulgar than usual today... 02:04:17 elliott: either way it'd be c++ not c. pressy too on the final 02:05:11 elliott: it was also the same bot that used the 213.143.* range (from two different subnets) previously 02:05:17 * elliott nods 02:05:22 I hope 84.78 isn't too big 02:05:34 I mean it could just be using a botnet or something but 02:05:59 orange in spain, judging from the email listed 02:06:03 84.78.0.0-84.79.255.255, YACOMNET, "Ya.com Internet Factory". 02:06:27 ^ul (:::::::):(:((^:()~((:)*~^)a~*^!!()~^))~*()~^^)~(^a(*~^)*a~*()~^!()~^)a~**^!!^S 02:06:27 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ...too much output! 02:06:35 ^ul (::):(:((^:()~((:)*~^)a~*^!!()~^))~*()~^^)~(^a(*~^)*a~*()~^!()~^)a~**^!!^S 02:06:35 :: 02:06:49 ^ul (:::):(:((^:()~((:)*~^)a~*^!!()~^))~*()~^^)~(^a(*~^)*a~*()~^!()~^)a~**^!!^S 02:06:49 :::::: 02:06:56 Well, all right, then 02:07:03 izabera: I want to say the channel is usually less of a mess than this but it isn't really 02:07:03 don't we have a factorial that uses decimals 02:07:20 what mess, we're even on topic 02:07:28 fizzie: How much for a fungot license? 02:07:29 shachaf: " you don't need to save the values of any of this even now 02:07:35 heh 02:07:59 Normally we talk about the holy vowel Ø 02:08:43 ^ul (:(1)*(:(2)*(:(3)*(:(4)*(:(5)*(:(6)*(:(7)*(:(8)*(:(9)*(!~:^)))))))))):(~^~(~a~*~a~*)~a*^:(0)*)~a*~:(a(:^)*())~*a(:^)*~()~(0)((!^~)())((:(~:(,)*S~^!^)~a*^:^~!a~^*a*)~a*^:^):^ 02:08:44 0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597, ...out of time! 02:08:53 we had fibonacci 02:09:01 shachaf: That would depend on what kind of terms you'd like on it. 02:09:22 ^ha 02:09:22 ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...too much output! 02:09:32 oerjan: We also had that. 02:09:34 ^show ha 02:09:34 ((ha)(ha))(~:^:(. )*S( )~**a~^!a*~:^):^ 02:09:48 fizzie: I'd like to use it in the design, construction, operation and maintenance of a nuclear facility. 02:10:20 shachaf: I probably wouldn't want to be on the same continent, then. 02:10:55 OK, so it's fine in North America? 02:11:36 I feel like I should be asking for legal advice before answering. 02:12:14 What other programming language you write IRC bots with? Is it QBASIC? 02:12:16 elliott: btw based on the spam bot's behavior (it didn't message me) i suspect it only messages people who joined after it, or something 02:12:21 I can't get Java, but at least I can get fungot. 02:12:21 shachaf: too difficult. :-p help would be appreciated.) obfuscated c contest with that 02:12:34 oerjan: probably not since it messaged me 02:12:37 I was just too lazy to ban it :( 02:12:39 ah. 02:12:44 I'd like to get legal advice but I'm not sure how to find a lawyer. 02:12:57 I was hoping nobody would notice it 02:13:01 until it got k-lined 02:13:05 "I have this friend who wants to use my Befunge chatbot in their nuclear facility..." is a great email opening to a lawyer, probably. 02:13:18 (The last sentence is actually serious.) 02:13:36 I think we have an intranet page on how to find a lawyer, but it's probably mostly about business purposes. 02:14:11 You have so many great intranet pages. 02:14:15 Like [redacted]. 02:17:10 to find a lawyer, go to the intersection of the two biggest streets in a large city, and get hit by a car. 02:18:37 or the yellow pages 02:19:23 there are pros and cons to both options 02:19:46 I'd like someone who knows about employment law. 02:19:55 Oh well. I'll figure it out. 02:20:06 Maybe there's a Yelp for lawyers? 02:20:31 There's a website called upcounsel.com. It doesn't look like a joke. 02:20:34 (Although from what I've understood by reading a blog now and then, lawyer selection still happens a lot via plain old human networking.) 02:20:44 "Can you send me a message on Upcounsel?" 02:20:46 find the CEO of a company whose workers are unionized, and ask for a recommendation 02:20:58 OK, maybe I should say that it doesn't look like it's *just* a joke. 02:23:10 I've had employment-related advice from "Academic Engineers and Architects in Finland TEK", "a professional and labour market organisation" -- mostly because advice is free for members. But that's a highly situational tip. 02:29:47 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 02:44:23 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:44:40 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 02:50:09 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:51:30 -!- Valentina has joined. 02:51:53 l 02:54:04 ? 02:55:37 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:59:58 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 03:01:56 `bienvenido Valentina 03:01:58 Valentina: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 03:03:23 Valentina: Además, si no te importa, nos gustaría saber cómo los usuarios canaima siguen encontrando este canal. 03:04:07 (Yo no hablo español bien, estoy utilizando Google Translate) 03:05:29 -!- L8D has joined. 03:09:22 yo lo tengo por mi canaima. 03:10:50 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:16:20 `benvenuto oerjan 03:16:21 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: benvenuto: not found 03:16:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:16:25 awww 03:16:59 contributions welcome >.> 03:18:01 how do i contribute >.< 03:18:50 I may have just bought overly-expensive tweezers 03:22:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:22:32 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 03:25:46 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:26:04 Do you have any FOAF RDF? 03:26:36 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:28:03 -!- _2_Emma has joined. 03:28:28 <_2_Emma> Isle Decker 03:28:47 i... agree 03:28:50 izabera: it's a unix system! 03:28:51 `help 03:28:52 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 03:28:52 izabera: what language is benvenuto 03:28:54 `run ls bin 03:28:56 ​` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ ! \ ? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ ؟ \ ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ \ \ \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addwep \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ as86 \ aseen \ bf \ bienvenido \ botsnack \ bseen \ buttsnack \ calc \ CaT \ catcat \ cats \ cc \ cdecl \ c++decl \ chroot \ coins \ CoInS \ complain \ complaints \ ctof \ dandd 03:28:56 -!- _2_Emma has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:29:12 so... you write a shell script. >.> 03:29:17 `cat bin/bienvenido 03:29:18 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome.es"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome.es"; } 03:29:24 or that I guess. 03:29:27 *guess. 03:29:28 ah italian 03:29:46 it should go in welcome.it, clearly 03:30:06 right. but then you'd have to copy and sed the perl script since I guess they're all just manually modified copies 03:30:09 oh well 03:30:38 `run cp bin/{bienvenido,benvenuto}; sed -i 's/es/it/' bin/bienvenuto 03:30:42 sorry i wasn't reading 03:30:44 sed: can't read bin/bienvenuto: No such file or directory 03:30:59 oops 03:31:04 `run cp bin/{bienvenido,benvenuto}; sed -i 's/es/it/' bin/benvenuto 03:31:06 No output. 03:31:06 oerjan: 20:32 one of these days i'll write a shachaf bot that takes random text and puts hth on the end and i,i at the start at random intervals throughout 03:31:18 `cat bin/benvenuto 03:31:19 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome.it"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome.es"; } 03:31:23 argh 03:31:30 `run cp bin/{bienvenido,benvenuto}; sed -i 's/es/it/g' bin/benvenuto 03:31:34 No output. 03:31:35 `cat bin/benvenuto 03:31:36 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome.it"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome.it"; } 03:31:47 `benvenuto 03:31:47 welcome.it? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:31:56 `ls 03:31:57 ​:-( \ 113500 \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ script.py \ share \ src \ test \ test.c \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 03:32:17 izabera: now you put the actual translation in wisdom/welcome.it 03:32:59 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:33:32 ok so it's not really a shell 03:34:49 izabera: it's a unix system! <-- are you trying to get em to release the raptors tdnh 03:35:04 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:35:34 izabera: it uses full bash actually 03:35:36 if you use `run 03:35:40 oh 03:35:42 well 03:35:44 ok 03:35:51 `run echo 'int main() { return 123; }' | gcc -x c - && ./a.out; echo $? 03:36:00 123 03:36:04 edwardk: i,i twh please do it hth 03:36:05 that took a while 03:36:13 yeah it can take a little while to start up sometimes 03:36:15 I don't quite know all of the programs on there 03:36:18 `run echo 'int main() { return 123; }' | gcc -x c - && ./a.out; echo $? 03:36:20 123 03:36:22 I think they might have added SQLite too 03:36:24 it's warmed up now :P 03:36:44 `run echo 'int main() { return 42; }' | gcc -x c - && ./a.out; echo $? 03:36:48 42 03:37:04 you can use precompiled headers 03:37:13 the warmup is just the VM startup I think 03:37:16 it uses user mode linux 03:37:24 so it's essentially booting an entire kernel on every command. 03:37:46 so i'd be waiting a while if i tried to get it to install ghc ;) 03:37:55 elliott: /j #evalbot 03:37:56 Maybe they should fix it? Maybe there is the way to avoid a bit somewhat 03:38:01 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:38:07 evalbot runs in qemu with a saved state 03:38:35 * elliott nods 03:38:38 edwardk: it used to have ghc but Gregor didn't bother to install it again when he moved it between servers :( 03:38:48 -!- Patashu has joined. 03:38:49 ah well 03:38:58 hackego has persistent state and so on which is nice 03:39:01 but maybe that does too 03:39:25 no it doesn't 03:39:30 edwardk: also since you've been mentioning around something i've also thought of, someone should totally make rank-n constraints work hth 03:39:33 * elliott nods 03:39:44 It does even have SQLite version 3.7.13 03:40:03 (With no extensions, as far as I know) 03:40:09 (class (Category a, forall b. Applicative (a b)) => Arrow a where ...) 03:40:28 `sleep 10 03:40:36 is there no timeout? 03:40:39 No output. 03:40:40 30 seconds or so 03:40:43 !sh echo hi 03:40:44 hi 03:40:45 oh that's a lo t 03:40:51 that's more comparable to that evalbot I guess 03:40:55 !sh echo * 03:40:55 interps lib slox 03:40:56 (no persistent state etc.) 03:40:57 edwardk: also while i'm stalking, hope you're feeling better 03:41:15 still sick, but meh 03:41:28 actually I wonder why it's so much faster 03:41:31 I forget how EgoBot sandboxes !sh... 03:41:41 !sh whoami 03:41:42 ​/usr/bin/whoami: cannot find name for user ID 1243611 03:41:42 i made a bot that lets you use the ed editor 03:41:45 !sh whoami 03:41:45 ​/usr/bin/whoami: cannot find name for user ID 1924701 03:41:46 do you know ed? o_o 03:41:48 a better way to think about Arrow to me is class (Strong p, Category p) => Arrow p -- using profunctors 03:41:59 I've used ed to edit files for real a few times! 03:42:03 mostly just so I could say I did it though 03:42:11 haha 03:42:17 elliott: i only edited them for you as a courtesy ;) 03:42:23 -!- Valentina has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:42:23 haha 03:42:40 yeah, thanks for implementing all those lens changes I telepathically communicated to you over the years... 03:42:46 np 03:42:52 thank you for the idea 03:44:08 izabera: ...what does the bot actually edit, though? 03:45:04 files 03:45:06 you know 03:45:33 gimme a min, i'll bring it here 03:47:45 * izabera is building dependencies and adding the ingredients 03:47:48 You can edit whatever files are stored in its filesystem 03:47:54 no 03:48:00 i patched it 03:48:35 HackEgo can edit any file under its directory, but not the others 03:48:41 And using hg I think? 03:48:54 Therefore you can't use any file that is not compatible with hg 03:50:50 -!- edirc has joined. 03:50:59 +i 03:50:59 0 03:51:04 +hello world 03:51:06 +. 03:51:06 -!- zzo38 has left. 03:51:09 +p 03:51:09 hello world 03:51:13 nice 03:51:25 of course I immediately forget all the ed I once knew :( 03:51:36 I've probably used TECO more 03:51:53 Is there a regular expression library that supports intersections and complements? 03:52:07 intersections? 03:52:28 ok i think i got it and the answer is no 03:52:32 text matches (P&Q) if it matches P and it matches Q 03:52:57 .*P.*Q.*|.*Q.*P.* 03:53:21 will work if it's no anchored 03:54:20 ed is a good editor for over a crap connection 03:54:36 and over irc :D 03:55:09 well, people often do not form very close bonds over IRC 03:55:11 so you could call it a 03:55:12 crap connection 03:55:21 thank you. I'm here all week 03:55:23 haha 03:55:49 izabera: Anchored? 03:56:15 yeah it won't work if either P or Q use ^ or $ 03:56:51 the point is ([abc]&[bcd]) would be the same as [bc], I think 03:56:57 as in, both P and Q run over the same string 03:57:04 rather than P coming after Q or vice versa 03:57:26 Yes. 03:57:39 (so, the set of strings that match (P&Q) is the intersection of the set of strings that match P and the set of strings that match Q) 03:57:51 mmh 03:58:20 I wonder if that operation is computable. as in whether there is a function over regexps that produces a new regexp with that property 03:58:20 And (!P) matches a string when P doesn't match it. 03:58:20 I thing perl regexes have something like that 03:58:20 Yes, there is. 03:58:21 I guess probably yes, regular languages have nice properties 03:58:27 But it's double-exponential or something. 03:58:35 (?!P) does that in some regexp engines I think? 03:58:37 but maybe it's weird 03:58:48 Lookahead/lookbehind is close but not quite the same thing. 03:58:50 using those "lookaround assertions" 03:58:51 (?!P) is not preceded by P 03:58:58 no 03:59:01 it's the complement? 03:59:02 E.g. it'll look even outside the parentheses. 03:59:03 mmh 03:59:05 sorry 03:59:22 regexps are too complicated and it's too 4 am for them :( 03:59:33 Regexps are the best. 03:59:53 But regular languages support intersection and complement, so it's silly that regular expressions don't. 04:00:14 I think you can implement them more efficiently in practice for the cases that people would care about. 04:00:17 But I don't really know. 04:02:02 izabera: does edirc have a bug bounty if I manage to break out of ed? :p 04:02:22 well, you'd win my gratitude 04:02:51 probably too lazy to actually try fuzzing it locally 04:03:06 +t1 04:03:09 +t1 04:03:11 +,n 04:03:11 1hello world 04:03:11 2hello world 04:03:12 3hello world 04:03:17 +t2 04:03:20 +,n 04:03:20 1hello world 04:03:20 2hello world 04:03:20 3hello world 04:03:22 4hello world 04:03:35 mmh 04:03:52 it's been a while and i don't really remember all of this 04:04:07 +q 04:04:12 :( 04:04:15 my leet hacker skills are not enough 04:05:10 nice try tho 04:05:24 do I get points for trying? 04:05:35 :P 04:05:47 that's got to be worth at least a 100th of a gratitude! 04:05:56 a gratiton. the fundamental gratitude particle 04:07:03 i need to not be sleep deprived when new people join ideally 04:07:21 ah yes now it sleeps 2 secs after printing 3 lines 04:08:50 +,d 04:08:52 +i 04:08:55 +reeter 04:08:57 +. 04:09:03 +streetlight 04:09:04 +p 04:09:04 lighter 04:09:07 tada 04:09:43 streetlight == s/ree/ligh/ 04:10:29 ok so sleepy time for me :P 04:10:36 nice chan ^^ 04:10:40 and sorry for the bot spam 04:10:43 +w !sh 04:10:43 ? 04:10:53 +h 04:10:54 Shell access restricted 04:11:13 aha 04:11:18 you can export the file you're editing 04:11:21 with X 04:11:23 +X 04:11:23 8 04:11:25 http://arin.ga/MaxYHB/raw 04:11:55 g'night 04:12:00 nite :) 04:12:23 nity-nite 04:14:17 I wonder if that operation is computable. <-- it's trivial when the "regexp" is in DFA form, the hard but still well-known part is converting back and forth 04:16:30 source https://github.com/izabera/edirc 04:16:56 edirc: are you a ghost? 04:17:07 Intersection NFAs isn't completely obvious, I think. 04:17:25 The annoying thing is that you need a multiplicative number of states, not just additive like for union. 04:17:50 Well, I guess that's the only nonobvious part. 04:18:09 -!- fractal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 04:18:25 shachaf: thus why i said DFAs. by the way that also applies to !P 04:18:52 I think it was also nonobvious for DFAs, but I guess it depends on what you consider obvious. 04:19:22 And sure it applies to !P, since A&B = !((!A)|(!B)) 04:19:27 "running two DFAs in parallel, construct an equivalent one by pairing states" 04:19:36 that's why i consider obvious. 04:19:40 *what 04:20:22 yeah the intersection construction is pretty trivial 04:20:23 basically you get any boolean combination that way 04:30:05 -!- fractal has joined. 04:32:44 -!- dianne has joined. 04:41:15 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:07:48 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:14:11 -!- L8D has joined. 06:31:02 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:50:41 -!- CADD has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 06:51:00 -!- CADD has joined. 07:28:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: reboot). 07:31:05 -!- bb010g has joined. 07:42:51 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:44:54 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 07:50:27 -!- heroux has joined. 07:57:56 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: ~). 07:59:14 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:59:41 -!- heroux has joined. 08:14:21 -!- L8D has joined. 08:31:17 If 's plastic top is damaged, could that mean it contacted electronics and damaged something? 08:36:20 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:50:04 :t asTypeIn 08:50:05 a -> (a -> b) -> a 08:50:21 wait, it's _not_ a -> f a -> a ? 08:51:05 dammit why does lambdabot have a function that i cannot hoogle 08:56:38 if it does. i thought i saw it mentioned but i cannot remember the name. 08:56:46 > asTypehuh 08:56:48 Not in scope: ‘asTypehuh’ 08:56:55 > asTypeO 08:56:56 Not in scope: ‘asTypeO’ 08:56:56 Perhaps you meant one of these: 08:56:56 ‘asTypeOf’ (imported from Prelude), ‘asTypeIn’ (line 161) 08:57:06 > asType 08:57:07 Not in scope: ‘asType’ 08:57:07 Perhaps you meant one of these: 08:57:07 ‘asTypeOf’ (imported from Prelude), ‘asTypeIn’ (line 161) 08:57:18 oh well seems there isn't another 09:00:36 argh it's not in the default lambdabot distribution 09:01:08 int-e: where can i see the default L.hs lambdabot actually _uses_? 09:01:25 > (0$0`asTypeIn`) 09:01:26 The operator ‘L.asTypeIn’ [infixl 0] of a section 09:01:26 must have lower precedence than that of the operand, 09:01:26 namely ‘GHC.Base.$’ [infixr 0] 09:01:43 the repository one only has 79 lines 09:07:47 * oerjan called it asTypeInside in his SO answer, anyway. 09:08:06 :t asTypeParam 09:08:07 Not in scope: ‘asTypeParam’ 09:08:10 :t asTypeParamOf 09:08:11 Not in scope: ‘asTypeParamOf’ 09:08:22 might have been more technically correct 09:08:57 although asType* is probably only used by people who want to avoid extensions anyway. 09:26:52 -!- Fleur has joined. 09:39:55 :t asAppliedTo 09:39:56 (a -> b) -> a -> a -> b 09:40:37 sheesh 09:41:17 > asAppliedTo succ 1 2 09:41:19 3 09:41:41 > map (succ `asAppliedTo 'a') [] 09:41:43 :1:24: parse error on input ‘'’ 09:41:46 > map (succ `asAppliedTo` 'a') [] 09:41:47 "" 09:58:16 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:03:14 and then it turned out my answer was nonsense, anyway 10:19:07 -!- Naprecks has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:22:14 -!- Naprecks has joined. 10:49:30 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 11:03:33 -!- hjulle has joined. 11:04:28 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 11:06:13 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:06:23 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 11:10:26 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 11:11:54 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:12:06 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 11:17:41 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 11:19:09 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:19:21 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 11:24:41 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 11:24:49 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:24:54 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 11:30:11 oerjan: the L.hs file is not visible anywhere. I keep a more-or-less up-to-date copy of the Pristine.hs file in the 'freenode' branch on github. 11:33:13 oerjan: sorry, missed the "default" word there 11:35:53 ^rreree sorry 11:35:53 s sosororrrryry y 11:36:56 ^rreree APOLOGY ACCEPTED 11:36:56 AAPAPOPOLOLOLOGOGYGY Y A ACACCCCECEPEPTPTETEDEDD 11:37:15 ^rreree sorority 11:37:15 ssosorororororirititytyy 11:37:54 ^rreree infinity 11:37:54 iininfnfifinininititytyy 11:39:34 Infinite titties 11:40:11 ^rerere sorority 11:40:11 sosrosorororirotirytiyty 11:41:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:41:17 I'm afraid, how did this happen: http://qdb.us/310139 11:41:39 int-e: that last Is is basically the same as Data.Typeable.:~: 11:44:55 That whole collection of code is quite random. 11:45:45 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 11:46:09 shocking 11:46:22 very. 11:47:08 `quote emptiness 11:47:10 No output. 11:47:27 ok it's not one of the ones stolen from the quotedb 11:48:07 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:48:10 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 11:51:29 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 11:54:13 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:54:24 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 11:57:32 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 11:59:20 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:59:26 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 11:59:53 `run awk '{if(NR==FNR){a[NR]=$0;if(l Meow~~chirp 12:02:20 wat 12:02:37 it's a new way to print Meow~~ chirp 12:03:18 nerd 12:03:34 that's not true <.< 12:03:37 * izabera no nerd 12:03:49 oh yes, you are 12:03:58 :( 12:04:03 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 12:05:40 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:05:42 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 12:10:44 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 12:10:56 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:11:09 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 12:14:37 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 12:15:32 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:15:34 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 12:22:26 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 12:24:03 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:24:06 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 12:30:46 clearly izabera is a gnork. also i should go to bed. or maybe eat first... 12:31:27 wait, make that gneerk 12:32:58 oerjan: so you're shifting, what, 2 hours a day now? 12:36:44 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 12:36:58 well i'm in that awkward phase where i'm shifting into having no reasonably awake overlap with my favorite restaurant's opening hours. so i generally try to do a jump then to end that quickly. 12:37:50 also, i have my yearly dentist checkup next week, would be nice not to miss it. 12:38:16 so basically today seems to be stay-awake-extra-long day 12:39:07 also i think i said something about eating -> 12:39:13 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:39:24 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 12:40:36 -!- boily has joined. 12:42:06 i'm a what? 12:42:27 * izabera is very offended 12:42:28 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 12:42:34 quintopia: QUINTHELLCOOKIEPIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! 12:42:53 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 12:43:55 -!- L8D has joined. 12:44:10 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:44:23 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 12:44:39 hell®rjan. 12:48:28 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 12:49:07 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:50:02 bodettermiddagly 12:50:38 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:50:52 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 12:56:04 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 12:58:07 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:58:14 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:00:15 -!- Decim has joined. 13:00:39 How 'bout I give you the 'Ole razzle dazzle 13:01:42 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 13:03:39 whois is so revealing 13:04:01 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:04:06 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:07:26 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 13:09:03 Decim: what's a razzle dazzle? 13:09:38 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:09:50 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:12:40 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 13:18:21 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 13:19:00 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:19:01 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:20:38 izabera: ...what is that awk snippet doing? 13:20:39 ohh 13:20:45 it's basically cat 13:20:55 I was thinking you were somehow calculating Meow~~ from chirp 13:24:02 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 13:24:23 :t asProxyTypeOf 13:24:24 Not in scope: ‘asProxyTypeOf’ 13:24:27 :t Data.Proxy.asProxyTypeOf 13:24:28 a -> Proxy a -> a 13:24:31 oerjan: ^ 13:24:36 (why isn't that imported...?) 13:24:48 elliott: useless, should have been proxy a 13:24:55 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:24:55 well 13:24:56 it is 13:24:57 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:24:58 in the tagged package 13:25:00 just not in lambdabot 13:25:05 I guess lambdabot is using an old version of tagged 13:25:10 not in Data.Proxy either 13:25:30 (in base) 13:25:42 oh 13:25:52 so the problem is that the new Data.Proxy is worse than the one in the package :( 13:26:07 edwardk: can you get base:Data.Proxy.asProxyTypeOf's "Proxy" lowercased? :p 13:26:15 or does that require three committee meetings and a popular vote 13:28:43 -!- Decim has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:29:20 > let a :: a -> p a -> a in a () undefined 13:29:22 The type signature for ‘a’ lacks an accompanying binding 13:29:32 izabera: also, anyone who ends up in this place is definitely a nerd, sorry :( 13:29:32 > let a :: a -> p a -> a; a = const in a () undefined 13:29:34 () 13:30:45 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 13:31:15 int-e: eh? what is p in that type signature? 13:31:40 izabera: izabhellora. don't worry. understand fungot and everything will be fine. 13:31:40 boily: afaik chicken only generates c code. not as nice 13:32:13 It seems that fungot understands boily, too. 13:32:14 Jafet: this isn't lisp already metalisp? 13:33:21 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:33:25 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:38:07 -!- Fleur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:38:19 boily: I supposed it ends up being any p :: * -> * 13:39:24 int-e: so it's possible to have a “p a” somewhere without any constraints? I didn't know that. 13:41:20 just like you can have foo :: a -> b with no constraints on a 13:42:27 -!- Fleur has joined. 13:49:04 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 13:50:00 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:50:15 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:55:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nitulacrum). 13:55:41 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 13:56:30 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:56:35 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 14:00:44 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 14:03:03 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:03:09 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 14:06:27 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 14:09:15 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:09:22 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 14:12:28 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 14:14:10 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:14:23 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 14:17:25 -!- vodkode has joined. 14:29:00 -!- FleurRose has joined. 14:29:55 -!- Fleur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:34:59 -!- staffehn_ has joined. 14:35:27 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 14:38:01 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:38:07 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 14:43:32 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 15:05:42 -!- dianne has joined. 15:21:06 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:24:15 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: ~). 15:26:28 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 15:26:30 -!- jix has joined. 15:26:43 -!- idris-bot has joined. 15:41:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CIRCULAR CHICKEN). 16:03:49 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 16:20:00 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:21:18 -!- L8D has joined. 16:25:35 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:26:34 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:38:59 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:53:19 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:54:12 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 17:05:11 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 17:05:33 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 17:08:38 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 17:09:45 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:10:18 ^rerere abcde 17:10:18 abacbadcbedcede 17:10:18 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:10:36 ^rreree abcde 17:10:36 aababcbcdcdedee 17:13:47 ^rreree I think I'm just going to put ^rreree before everything I say. 17:13:47 II I t ththihininknk k I I'I'm'm m j jujusustst t g gogoioiningng g t toto o p puputut t ^ ^r^rrrrerererereeee e b bebefefofororere e e evevevereryrytyththihiningng g I I I s sasayay.y.. 17:14:08 ^rreree This will greatly enhance the experience of all involved. 17:14:08 TThThihisis s w wiwilillll l g grgrereaeatatltlyly y e enenhnhahanancncece e t ththehe e e exexpxpepereririeienencncece e o ofof f a alallll l i ininvnvovololvlveveded.d.. 17:21:05 ^rerere At least ^rreree is more readable than ^rerere. 17:21:05 AtA tAl tel aelsaetsa ts^ tr^ rr^errrerereeer eei esi sim som romero err eer aerdaeadabadlbaelb elt eht ahtnah na^ nr^ er^rererererere.er.e. 17:22:40 [ rerere=: 3 :'(y,'' ''"0 y){~0,+/\({~?~@#)1 1 _1#~<:#y' 17:22:41 b_jonas: |ok 17:22:50 [ rerere 'This will greatly enhance the experience of all involved. 17:22:51 b_jonas: |open quote 17:22:51 b_jonas: | rerere 'This will greatly enhance the experience of all involved. 17:22:51 b_jonas: | ^ 17:22:53 [ rerere 'This will greatly enhance the experience of all involved.' 17:22:54 b_jonas: |value error: rerere 17:22:54 b_jonas: | rerere'This will greatly enhance the experience of all involved.' 17:23:07 [ rerere 17:23:08 b_jonas: |value error: rerere 17:23:12 [ rerere=: 3 :'(y,'' ''"0 y){~0,+/\({~?~@#)1 1 _1#~<:#y' 17:23:13 b_jonas: |ok 17:23:16 [ rerere 17:23:16 b_jonas: |value error: rerere 17:23:24 what 17:23:28 [ foo=: 43 17:23:28 the outer ' ' mess with the inner ones 17:23:29 b_jonas: |ok 17:23:31 [ foo 17:23:31 b_jonas: |value error: foo 17:23:40 oh it's just the bot that's broken 17:23:54 no problem 17:24:02 so uhm is this channel only full of bots or what 17:24:07 -!- evalj has joined. 17:24:07 @bot 17:24:07 :) 17:24:09 ] rerere=: 3 :'(y,'' ''"0 y){~0,+/\({~?~@#)1 1 _1#~<:#y' 17:24:09 b_jonas: |ok 17:24:11 fungot: 123 17:24:12 int-e: ( note that i said " abstract character" as a yes :) thats why i was wondering 17:24:15 `echo Hi 17:24:16 Hi 17:24:20 ] rerere 'This will greatly enhance the experience of all involved.' 17:24:20 b_jonas: ThThisihis sihis w w sisihThThisis wiw s wiliwilillll greatly enhahance ththe experepxperieirieieieienence of fof f alall i i llall l i invovnvovnvovnvololved.d.d.ded. . 17:24:32 ] rerere 'fungot, is this channel only full of bots or what?' 17:24:33 b_jonas: there are a few euros attached to it 17:24:33 b_jonas: f funufungot, i i is thisisis chchc c c chchannenelelel o o onlylylno onononly f fufufufufufulull o of f b botstotststs ororor w whwhat?t? 17:24:50 `8-ball is this channel only full of bots or what? 17:24:51 Reply hazy try again. 17:24:53 metasepia is absent without leave 17:25:13 zemhill_: how did you work again? 17:26:09 izabera: it's like 7-10% bot iirc 17:26:19 so. yeah. 17:26:27 usually people are slightly less spammy with them though :p 17:26:27 `prefixes 17:26:29 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 17:26:34 elliott: what? really? if that was true, we needed more bots 17:26:38 but I think we already have more 17:26:44 hey there's no thutubot 17:26:48 can edirc use 17:26:51 !help 17:26:51 int-e: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information. 17:26:51 + ? 17:26:51 ? 17:26:51 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 17:27:03 thutubot is only incredibly rarely around so yeah 17:27:05 !zjoust [+] 17:27:05 int-e: "!zjoust progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. 17:27:09 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 17:27:12 !zjoust overflow [+] 17:27:13 int-e.overflow: points -25.40, score 3.66, rank 47/47 17:27:29 -!- gde33 has quit. 17:27:33 !bfjoust overflow [+] 17:27:42 ​Score for int-e_overflow: 9.4 17:27:50 sometimes people talk here!! 17:27:53 !zjoust nooverflow +[+] 17:27:53 b_jonas.nooverflow: points -26.21, score 3.50, rank 47/47 17:28:01 fungot: tell us about people 17:28:01 int-e: me too! 17:28:11 fungot: I knew that 17:28:12 int-e: just for the record, it was a clever magician, so he didn't try to open a new structure in some module 17:28:29 fungot is magical 17:28:30 int-e: i had forgot there was a problem sending the command to push constant values into the list right?). having to learn a programming language in its own command, for efficiency 17:28:41 fungot, are you a speaking parrot? 17:28:41 b_jonas: " fsn only worked on what the program does 17:28:55 ok seriously 17:29:00 cut down on the botspam :p 17:29:16 \o/ 17:29:25 [ rerere 'cut down on the botspam :p' 17:29:25 b_jonas: |value error: rerere 17:29:26 b_jonas: | rerere'cut down on the botspam :p' 17:29:29 ] rerere 'cut down on the botspam :p' 17:29:29 b_jonas: c c cut d d dodown o n ono o onon t t n the e e e bototstspstotststspam :p p 17:29:50 So myndzi is broken, sigh. 17:29:55 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:30:03 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 17:30:23 you're making me want to +m >_> 17:31:39 wait till we start asking evalj for ascii-art mandelbrot fractal and the like 17:33:32 Why does clog have a +q? 17:34:54 elliot: besides, that wouldn't work too well on a -n channel 17:35:01 int-e: Just In Case. 17:39:05 Okay, mystery solved. http://sprunge.us/BAZJ (this was 2011-05-13 but I suspect elliott's self assessment has not changed significantly in the meantime :-P) 17:39:39 I am a very different person to who I was four years ago. 17:40:06 elliott: sure, but do you consider yourself sane? 17:40:21 well... my diagnoses say otherwise 17:40:30 +q != +b 17:40:30 ? 17:40:37 dammit edirc stfu 17:40:50 hehe 17:40:55 it's just like using ed for real! 17:41:01 why do i have to be fooled by my own bot -.- 17:41:07 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:41:55 +e /etc/passwd 17:41:55 ? 17:41:59 too easy 17:42:01 +h 17:42:01 Warning: buffer modified 17:42:14 well, it doesn't really work 17:42:16 izabera: I know that. (But I had to look up how to get the list of active quiets.) 17:42:20 it just re reads the same file 17:42:32 right. 17:42:37 I guess you're using red? 17:42:39 or whatever it's called 17:42:48 red can edit other files 17:42:52 i patched it :P 17:42:55 disabled a few functions 17:42:55 heh 17:43:07 I'm not convinced of its security in 2015. 17:43:15 but I'm also too lazy to dig through what is probably a lot of code to exploit it 17:43:22 haha 17:43:30 (assuming it's GNU >.>) 17:43:39 it'd be easier to plant a backdoor 17:43:40 yes gnu ed 17:44:06 Mmm, delicious GNU bugginess. 17:44:18 do you have a link to the source? 17:44:20 of the bot I mean 17:44:22 (pssst, musl's awesome) 17:44:24 oh wait 17:44:30 the bot linked that itself 17:44:32 https://github.com/izabera/edirc/blob/master/edirc 17:45:44 +,p 17:45:44 lighter 17:46:16 thisis really fancy for bash 17:46:17 *this is 17:46:23 emacs sucks 17:46:39 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:46:40 bash rocks u_u 17:47:19 masochist :P 17:47:33 maybe 17:48:03 i mean, there's a befunge bot and i'm the masochist 17:48:04 ok 17:48:43 There's no fungeshock 17:48:48 I would not have written that in bash myself. I'm kinda impressed really. 17:48:49 haha 17:48:51 your thoughts 17:48:57 befunge doesn't require you to quote everything! 17:49:16 befunge has multiple implementations >.> 17:49:32 elliott: POSIX sh has multiple implementations. :P 17:50:08 (of course this is the least POSIX shell script) 17:50:39 besides this channel can support multiple masochists 17:52:31 unless they want money 17:53:09 oh, it supports several ed sessions... 17:53:21 fun. 17:53:28 izabera: do you write your web 2.0 applications in bash too 17:54:24 it could be implemented on top of http://bellard.org/jslinux/ 17:54:32 elliott: Writing CGI in bash is pretty easy (if frightening). 17:54:59 The tricky bit is doing an HTTP server. 17:55:28 I don't have one in bash for you, but one in C isn't that bad. 17:57:33 you know what I regret saying that already 17:58:30 elliott: this is the wrong channel for regrets. 17:58:40 :( 18:04:59 Sides, what's not to love? http://sprunge.us/fBPj 18:06:43 this is not bash code. 18:07:06 12:57 < pikhq> I don't have one in bash for you, but one in C isn't that bad. 18:11:43 AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -1.79, score 18.80, rank 24/47 (+1) 18:17:19 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 18:18:40 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:18:44 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 18:35:20 :/ is there a legal way to watch the 3d versions of 3d movies? 18:39:02 Sgeo: um. what kind of movies are you planning on watching? 18:39:12 Avatar comes to mind 18:39:27 As does The Last Airbender, but that's not a movie I'm inclined to watch again 18:40:59 Avatar in particular? Sure. Purchase a 3D TV, a 3D Bluray player, and the Avatar 3D Bluray. 18:41:14 -!- zadock has joined. 18:41:32 Can I have the 3D Bluray player without a 3D TV? 18:41:43 My Oculus Rift + some software could be used like a 3DTV 18:41:55 Had some fun watching demos meant for 3DTV on YouTube 18:42:02 Um, that would make sense but I do not know for certain. 18:45:26 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS2C4UWu-pk was a fantastic experience, in a virtual theater 18:51:00 -!- FleurRose has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:06:18 -!- lleu has joined. 19:09:38 -!- lleu has quit (Client Quit). 19:09:45 -!- lleu has joined. 19:15:41 `relcome lleu 19:15:43 ​lleu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:15:53 thanks 19:24:54 -!- Fleur has joined. 19:29:23 * Sgeo sings Save... me.... 19:30:25 SAVE ME - SAVE ME FROM MY SELF TONIGHT 19:30:25 SAVE ME - SAVE ME WHEN I CLOSE MY EYES 19:31:37 a-are you okay, sgeo 19:34:22 yes 19:34:27 I just really, really love that video 19:34:51 Parallel viewing it works but not as well :/ 19:40:46 Why did 3D TV die? 19:42:46 Sgeo: it will be reborn when it's ready, see http://www.xkcd.com/1497/ 19:44:19 * Sgeo doesn't want Rift-like devices to die 19:45:12 Mostly because nobody cares about 3D TV. 19:56:47 -!- ^v has joined. 19:58:53 -!- L8D has joined. 20:03:47 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:05:12 I think I would enjoy a 3dtv or a 3d monitor 20:05:28 Although now I effectively have a (low-resolution and cumbersome to use) one 20:05:43 elliott: ugh 20:06:40 edwardk: :) 20:07:20 -!- mike_nm has joined. 20:09:18 hi 20:11:25 hi 20:13:40 do you like esoteric programming 20:14:16 I do! 20:14:25 -!- adu_ has joined. 20:14:50 -!- b_jonas has set topic: RIP Jiří Matoušek and Terry Pratchett | I'm a fungot trapped in a channel full of weirdos | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 20:15:05 nobody here does 20:15:05 I'ma using the channel mode -t privilages 20:17:36 -!- mike_nm has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 20:19:29 -!- graue has joined. 20:19:39 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 20:32:09 hi graue 20:35:30 -!- GeekDude has joined. 20:36:26 -!- adu_ has quit (Quit: adu_). 20:49:28 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:08:42 "Please complete each of your course evaluations as soon as possible. We value your feedback!" 21:08:47 -!- iamevn has joined. 21:09:29 ... well why don't you stop striking and mark the assignments I hnded in 3 weeks ago?!?! 21:11:30 0/10 went on strike and ruined everything, would not buy again 21:14:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:16:04 I figured out my bug, I was overflowing a buffer by 1 byte 21:16:08 thus causing UB 21:16:20 and valgrind didn't see it because it was on the stack 21:16:48 Is an implementation of brainfuck where moving the pointer left past where it starts isn't handled at all and just breaks things valid? 21:17:02 i think so 21:17:14 working on a translator from brainfuck to language I'm working on and not handling that makes things a lot simpler 21:17:19 bf dialects are highly variable 21:17:49 -!- L8D has joined. 21:18:42 ais523: oh great 21:18:48 -!- adu_ has joined. 21:18:57 iamevn: that's normally considered valid, yes 21:19:21 awesome, then I should have a proof of turing completeness assuming I didn't mess up the translation somewhere 21:19:25 also, if you're doing a BF-to-language compiler to prove BF-completeness, you can place pretty much arbitrary restrictions that don't break BF-completeness 21:19:54 -!- adu_ has quit (Client Quit). 21:19:54 BF is definitely Turing-complete with only a right-infinite tape 21:20:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:21:01 ooh, now I came up with another "is it TC or not?" problem: BF, except that only the prime-numbered tape elements are writable, the others stay permanently locked at 0 21:21:03 now to just rewrite the translator in my language instead of in racket. 21:21:32 ais523: my guess is that it's TC, let me think 21:21:33 oh, sub-TC, obviously; at some point on the tape, you get a sequence of consecutive composite numbers longer than the length of the program 21:21:37 and can't get past it due to no loops 21:21:48 what 21:21:53 so you only have finite accessible memory 21:21:53 oh right 21:22:06 yes, if they're locked to zero the loop will exit 21:22:07 ouch 21:22:23 but what if they're locked to nonzero instead? 21:23:19 -!- adu_ has joined. 21:23:50 yep, that's more interesting 21:25:06 actually I think it's pretty simply TC, you use 0 and 1 as the only values on the writable cells 21:25:27 ais523: but how do you skip to the next writable cell without destroying anything? 21:25:44 you just test both 0 and 1 as the value for each cell 21:25:49 if neither matches, you move on 21:26:15 and in order to escape nested loops, you maintain every second writable cell at 0 21:27:04 actually, hmm 21:27:06 I'm not sure that works 21:27:32 although, there are an infinite number of prime pairs… 21:27:42 we're close enough to the twin prime conjecture to make it work. 21:27:48 -!- adu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:29:00 int-e: yeah, that's what I was thinking too. we know there is a natural number k such that there's infinitely many pairs of primes whose difference is k, we just can't name a k that definitely works. 21:29:23 but we know that 2 <= k <= 246. 21:29:25 still, bf is very limited and I don't understand it, so I don't know if this can be made to work 21:30:07 I think it can probably be made to work 21:31:35 b_jonas: int-e: wow, that result is absolutely amazing 21:35:28 where is this from? 21:36:55 like, how do we know this k exists? 21:37:15 http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Bounded_gaps_between_primes 21:38:30 I had a look at the paper that started this effort (and proved that k <= 7e7), but found it incomprehensible. 21:38:38 Analytical number theory is hard. 21:39:20 Anyway, yes, bounded prime gaps is an absolutely amazing results, and even the people who understand number theory (I don't, and I don't even try to) claim so. 21:43:23 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:55:16 -!- adu has joined. 21:56:52 -!- zadock has joined. 21:58:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:01:03 -!- L8D has joined. 22:01:36 -!- zadock has quit (Client Quit). 22:20:31 -!- zadock has joined. 22:31:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:37:20 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:39:04 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:55:53 -!- oren has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:56:43 -!- augur has joined. 22:56:53 -!- oren has joined. 22:58:42 [wiki] [[Wordy]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42169 * Iamevn * (+9829) Created language page. 22:59:16 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:01:18 [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42170&oldid=42166 * Iamevn * (+12) /* W */ added wordy 23:08:26 [wiki] [[Wordy]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42171&oldid=42169 * Iamevn * (+130) /* Built in functions */ 23:17:01 -!- L8D has joined. 23:18:49 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:19:28 Foi, ozusgri fequ ummeioj querj oboliemo vo yuh yu cikepo omgyulori yum (u cryutfigri nejyuhyuoj bolcyuem eh) Uryuomoco? 23:23:10 -!- Lautner has joined. 23:23:15 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 23:23:29 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:24:36 Sbv, bmhftev srdh hzzrvbw dhrew bobyvrzb ib lhu lh pvxrcb bztlhybev lhz (h pelhgsvtev arwlhulhbw obyplhrz ru) Helhbzbpb? 23:25:03 -!- Fleur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:25:27 -!- Fleur has joined. 23:25:34 this looks like some sort of substitution cupher 23:25:38 *cipher 23:25:58 -!- Fleur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:26:56 -!- adu has joined. 23:27:34 I see that olsner tried rot13 23:28:25 -!- Lautner has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:28:35 int-e: yes, it was not very successful 23:36:30 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 23:37:33 ais523: yug yuc yumjooj ceno celg eh cavcigyugagyuem syuhol. 23:39:22 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 23:40:32 -!- L8D has joined. 23:42:32 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:50:08 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:55:42 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 23:59:42 -!- iamevn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 2015-03-22: 00:04:53 -!- Koen_ has joined. 00:16:12 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:16:13 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Changing host). 00:16:13 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:16:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:16:23 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:17:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 00:17:40 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:19:56 tswett: pretty annoyed, I think. 00:20:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:21:27 tswett: should "querj" be "quearj"? 00:22:03 Yeah, it should. 00:22:09 -!- heroux has joined. 00:22:36 Chug'c quoug yu hyutiloj. 00:22:41 good, then I just don't understand the rule for some of the "i". 00:23:13 I just stuck some "i"s in to make it more pronounceable. 00:23:45 nasty. 00:32:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:32:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:34:06 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:34:06 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 00:36:32 tswett: Ockosyuurri yuh iea semgyumao ge nupo gikec ryupo gfug. 00:43:10 You didn't actually decipher it without foreknowledge, did you? 00:43:19 I did. 00:45:39 > let s = "FOI, OZUSGRI FEQU UMMEIOJ QUERJ OBOLIEMO VO YUH YU CIKEPO OMGYULORI YUM (U CRYUTFIGRI NEJYUHYUOJ BOLCYUEM EH) URYUOMOCO? YUG YUC YUMJOOJ CENO CELG EH CAVCIGYUGAGYUEM SYUHOL." in reverse $ sort $ map (\x -> (length x, head x)) $ group $ sort $ map (take 2) $ tails s 00:45:40 [(15,"YU"),(6," Y"),(5," C"),(4,"O "),(4,"J "),(3,"UM"),(3,"UH"),(3,"UE"),(3... 00:46:04 after I did that, things became much easier :P 00:53:18 -!- iamevn has joined. 00:54:22 tswett: actually I still don't know where the code comes from; I find lots of Futurama references, but they only seem to be using a special font. 01:03:07 -!- Koen_ has left. 01:06:58 let's play cat replacer! fun for all the family 01:07:04 `run cat twolines 01:07:05 first \ second 01:07:11 `run sed '' twolines 01:07:14 first \ second 01:07:17 `run awk 1 twolines 01:07:18 first \ second 01:08:00 `run ed -s twolines <<< ,p 01:08:01 first \ second 01:08:19 your turn 01:09:23 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:18:41 We had a departmental christmas party game built around that, I think. 01:18:56 The twist was that after each thing, the commands used for that were removed from the system. 01:19:46 well that's fun 01:19:53 i can play that for a while 01:20:10 `run tr a a < twolines 01:20:12 first \ second 01:20:19 I liked the spam game more. 01:20:20 -!- L8D has joined. 01:20:26 which one? 01:20:36 The goal was to write an email that gets the highest score from SpamAssassin. 01:20:41 LOL 01:21:34 `` dd if=twolines status=none | tac | tac | sort 01:21:35 dd: invalid status flag: `none' \ Try `dd --help' for more information. 01:21:41 sniff. 01:21:47 `` dd if=twolines | tac | tac | sort 01:21:48 0+1 records in \ 0+1 records out \ 13 bytes (13 B) copied, 0.000631 s, 20.6 kB/s \ first \ second 01:21:59 status=none 01:23:03 oh i didn't read the first one D: 01:23:16 so that's not gnu dd? 01:23:23 `dd --version 01:23:24 dd (coreutils) 8.13 \ Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later . \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by Paul Rubin, David MacKenzie, and Stuart Kemp. 01:23:30 mmhhhh 01:23:31 just dated 01:23:34 oh 01:23:37 8.13 01:24:20 well, just use 2>/dev/null :P 01:25:38 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 01:25:44 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:26:12 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:26:37 `m4 twolines 01:26:44 first \ second 01:27:10 `` grep s twolines 01:27:11 first \ second 01:27:28 -!- idris-bot has joined. 01:27:54 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:28:16 `` cut -f1- twolines 01:28:17 first \ second 01:28:46 -!- L8D has joined. 01:29:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:29:56 `` less twolines 01:30:00 first \ second 01:30:15 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 01:30:32 `` ex -sc "1,$p|q" twolines 01:30:40 `` which less 01:30:44 first \ second 01:30:44 ​/usr/bin/less 01:31:06 oerjan: less acts like cat if the output is not a terminal 01:31:08 ic 01:31:08 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:31:38 * oerjan never tried running it that way, obviously 01:31:55 `` cp twolines /dev/stdout 01:31:56 first \ second 01:32:15 `` mv twolines /dev/stdout 01:32:16 mv: inter-device move failed: `twolines' to `/dev/stdout'; unable to remove target: Read-only file system 01:32:19 ah. 01:32:41 wow 01:32:45 that's cool 01:32:45 head and tail will also work (since the file is short) 01:32:48 what a detailed error message 01:33:16 -!- GeekDude has joined. 01:33:18 `` mv twolines /dev/fnord 01:33:19 mv: inter-device move failed: `twolines' to `/dev/fnord'; unable to remove target: Read-only file system 01:33:30 `ls /dev/fnord 01:33:32 ls: cannot access /dev/fnord: No such file or directory 01:33:58 ais523: not very precise that last message 01:34:24 `` pwd 01:34:24 ​/hackenv 01:34:41 `` mv twolines /hackenv/twolines 01:34:41 mv: `twolines' and `/hackenv/twolines' are the same file 01:34:44 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:35:38 `run while read f ; do printf "%s\n" $f; done < twolines 01:35:39 i wonder how it gets to give "unable to remove target" when the target doesn't exist, given that it has to check whether they're the same file before it can try the removal. 01:35:39 first \ second 01:36:22 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 01:36:22 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:36:36 `run mapfile < twolines; printf %s "${MAPFILE[@]}" 01:36:36 first \ second 01:37:02 `mapfile --help 01:37:03 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mapfile: not found 01:37:11 it's a bash builtin 01:37:15 ah right 01:37:17 `help mapfile 01:37:18 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 01:37:24 `` help mapfile 01:37:26 mapfile: mapfile [-n count] [-O origin] [-s count] [-t] [-u fd] [-C callback] [-c quantum] [array] \ Read lines from the standard input into an indexed array variable. \ \ Read lines from the standard input into the indexed array variable ARRAY, or \ from file descriptor FD if the -u option is supplied. The variable MAPFILE \ 01:37:30 `` lynx -source twolines 2>/dev/null 01:37:35 No output. 01:37:48 works for me :P 01:37:59 `` lynx -source twolines 01:38:00 ​ \ Configuration file "/etc/lynx-cur/lynx.cfg" is not available. 01:38:36 `run perl -pe '' twolines 01:38:38 first \ second 01:38:41 are you having a "write cat" competition 01:38:47 `` lynx -cfg=/dev/null -source twolines 01:38:48 ​ \ Lynx file "/etc/lynx-cur/lynx.lss" is not available. 01:38:53 oerjan: yess :D 01:39:32 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:41:59 this is _so_ messing up my obsessive logreading order 01:42:52 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:43:06 `run pod2text --code twolines 01:43:13 first \ second 01:43:27 darn you did both sed and perl already 01:43:37 i suppose those were too easy 01:43:46 `strings twolines 01:43:47 first \ second 01:44:25 izabera: how do you know about all these obscure bash things 01:44:30 * int-e is mostly looking for things that act like cat on the specific given input, but aren't. 01:44:35 i live in #bash 01:44:43 oh okay 01:44:49 weren't you just denying being a nerd earlier :p 01:45:15 lainerd 01:45:32 i'm 37% nerd, ok 01:45:40 i have a nerd-o-meter 01:45:55 that very fact makes you 100% nerd 01:46:06 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:46:15 what if i had a non-nerd-o-meter? 01:46:24 `` which recode 01:46:25 No output. 01:46:36 `` which dos2unix 01:46:37 No output. 01:46:43 `run interps/egobf/src/egobfi8 <(echo ',[.,]') < twolines # except if you start this way, there's going to be no end 01:46:44 first \ second 01:46:51 anything involving having meters that in some way correlate to your nerdiness is inherently nerdy 01:46:58 dammit 01:47:09 fizzie: doesn't work for files with nul bytes! 01:47:14 `` cpp -o /dev/output twolines 01:47:16 cc1: fatal error: opening output file /dev/output: Read-only file system \ compilation terminated. 01:47:22 oops 01:47:29 `pr twolines 01:47:31 ​ \ \ 2015-03-22 01:07 twolines Page 1 \ \ \ first \ second 01:47:36 `` cpp -o - twolines 01:47:37 ​# 1 "twolines" \ # 1 "" \ # 1 "twolines" \ first \ second 01:47:44 ok not that :P 01:47:57 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:48:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:48:52 `` shuf twolines 01:48:53 second \ first 01:48:54 `` shuf twolines 01:48:55 second \ first 01:48:58 `` shuf twolines 01:48:58 first \ second 01:49:01 yay 01:50:07 izabera: ooh ooh 01:50:11 can you set shuf's seed 01:50:20 --random-source=FILE 01:50:20 get random bytes from FILE 01:50:21 yesss 01:50:37 just have to craft a file that makes it output files in order 01:50:39 `` xargs -n1 first \ second 01:50:47 yay 01:50:50 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 01:50:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:50:59 elliott: i doubt it even exists :P 01:51:09 well, it should for any given file 01:51:11 for arbitrary size files 01:51:14 and probably any given file of a certain line length? 01:51:17 er, count of lines I mean 01:51:28 the question is whether the prefixes stay the same though 01:51:37 as in whether the file for length n + 1 lines is an extension of the file for length n lines 01:51:41 it would depend on the algorithm shuf uses 01:53:30 `run echo "~:1+!#@_," > /tmp/tmp.bf && interps/befunge/bef.bin /tmp/tmp.bf < twolines 01:53:31 first \ second 01:53:50 `` { nc -q1 -l -p 12345 < twolines > /dev/null & }; sleep 1; nc 127.0.0.1 12345 < /dev/null 01:53:51 first \ second 01:53:58 oh nice 01:54:28 `` nl twolines | cut -f2- 01:54:30 first \ second 01:54:36 `run socat STDIN STDOUT < twolines 01:54:38 first \ second 01:55:02 (Thanks to nc for inspiration.) 01:55:12 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:57:04 you're all disgusting 01:57:10 `` gzip -c twolines | zcat 01:57:12 first \ second 01:57:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:57:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:57:27 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:00:41 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:00:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:00:56 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:01:43 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:01:59 `` rev first \ second 02:02:29 (inspired by int-e's tacs) 02:03:54 -!- L8D has joined. 02:04:06 `` echo "$( first \ second 02:05:22 i tried to play this in other channels and i was muted / banned / insulted / ignored 02:05:42 thankfully there is no signal-to-noise ratio to ruin here! 02:05:47 :D 02:05:48 >_> 02:05:48 `run bzip2 -c twolines | bzcat # in the spirit of trivial variations 02:05:49 first \ second 02:07:02 `` whicg xz lzma 02:07:03 bash: whicg: command not found 02:07:07 `` which xz lzma 02:07:10 ​/usr/bin/xz \ /usr/bin/lzma 02:08:58 `cat bin/rot13 02:08:59 print_args_or_input "$@" | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M 02:09:06 `run rot13 twolines | rot13 02:09:07 twolines 02:09:32 `run rot13 < twolines | rot13 02:09:34 first \ second 02:09:51 this counts for you :P 02:10:23 `` first() { echo first; }; second() { echo second; }; source twolines 02:10:24 first \ second 02:10:34 haha 02:10:51 int-e: i guess that's perfection 02:11:10 int-e: well, close. 02:11:34 we're approaching a narcissist variant 02:11:52 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:12:09 there's also the destructive variant: true > twolines 02:12:18 -!- L8D has joined. 02:12:27 useless use of true :P 02:13:04 oh, so it is 02:13:08 I like useless use of cat :( 02:13:15 `` < twolines 02:13:16 No output. 02:13:20 < twolines works in zsh 02:13:24 ah 02:13:25 yeah 02:13:36 zsh is way cool with its MULTIOS system 02:13:37 It's funny that $(< foo) works 02:13:46 I didn't know that. 02:14:38 Finally I got my domain name corrected 02:15:05 zzo38: that took a while 02:15:48 your shell knowledge scares me 02:16:08 multios sounds like some ancient precursor to multics 02:16:21 . o O ( Ghost in a shell. ) 02:16:49 :>* is a good zsh program to ruin everything in your cwd 02:17:01 it's a pointy smiley with an evil goatee 02:17:01 :>* 02:17:12 haha 02:17:21 this shell does not sound cat-proof 02:17:37 oerjan: Yes it did take a while because they did not have time to fix it before, but now they did. 02:18:37 02:18:38 02:19:04 pikhq: how ghosty of you 02:19:24 `unidecode 02:19:25 ​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] 02:20:00 i don't think there were any message characters at all 02:20:30 (irssi/putty seemed to think the line stopped there) 02:20:35 test 02:20:50 oh scratch that 02:21:02 it doesn't seem to keep track of trailing spaces 02:22:09 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:22:14 oerjan: That was just my terminal freaking out on me. 02:22:16 IRC does not really support empty messages. 02:22:31 i suppose 02:24:16 * oerjan cannot remember the irssi command to make a raw irc command (it's _not_ /raw) 02:24:17 If you try to send empty message you will get a 412 error message. 02:24:27 zzo38: ok 02:24:31 But you can add spaces and then it will work 02:26:00 ok it was /quote 02:26:44 At least in IRC client I am using it is /RAW to send raw data to the remote host, although I have never needed it and is probably unnecessary; it does absolutely no processing on the data if doing this and doesn't even add CRLF (you must add that by yourself) 02:27:04 nice 02:27:53 but writing a \n will be hard 02:28:26 indeed 02:28:44 Well, in the client I use, you can push CTRL+P before any character to insert that character raw into the input buffer, so you can do it that way 02:28:56 the server will interpret it 02:29:52 Once it is sent it will, yes 02:30:24 so yeah writing \n may be easy but receiving it is not 02:30:45 i recall irssi used to have a /quote version that didn't append \r\n but i cannot find it again 02:31:21 i managed to ping out because of it before i realized it wasn't the useful command 02:31:23 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:31:45 (Also if the raw data contains a space, you will need to put a colon in front, because the client interprets the commands in the same way of the server interpreting commands.) 02:31:48 (presumably the text got prepended to the following PONG 02:31:49 ) 02:32:03 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 02:32:16 oerjan: Yes I would suppose that's why it does that 02:32:48 -!- int-e has left ("CATATONIC CHICKEN"). 02:32:48 -!- int-e has joined. 02:33:43 Still, I have never needed /RAW because the default processing of commands in this client works good enough 02:35:18 The purposes of /RAW are things that never seem necessary, but are: Sending commands in lowercase, sending commands that start with a slash or space, prevent automatically changing the channel, and send other control characters that the server might use but aren't IRC commands (this probably never happens, but just in case) 02:35:38 Or, perhaps, sending mispaired CR/LF for testing purposes 02:36:44 Or sending nonstandard commands (I have aliases NS = QUOTE NICKSERV and CS = QUOTE CHANSERV) 02:36:46 But, I don't know if anyone has ever needed such a thing at all. 02:36:59 int-e: No it isn't needed for the client I am using. 02:38:01 Also the IRC server already supports NS and CS commands directly. 02:38:34 If you type "NS INFO" then you can see the information of your account. 02:39:43 well I'm not using your client 02:40:22 OK, although, the IRC server already can use NS and CS commands 02:40:27 At least, Freenode can. 02:40:38 and irssi doesn't have its own builtin commands for ns/nickserv or cs/chanserv. 02:40:57 (NICKSERV and NS are aliases on the server side) 02:41:27 doesn't irssi send unknown commands as raw? 02:41:33 Yes, so the server already supports it; the client doesn't need its own builtin commands for such things 02:45:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:45:11 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 02:45:14 Yes but in *this* client, /quote is how you issue server side commands that the client doesn't support directly. 02:46:04 Still the client doesn't need it builtin if it has such thing as that too 02:46:38 Anyways NS and CS isn't a standard IRC command, but some IRC servers do add extra commands on for various reasons and it is sometimes useful to have. 02:49:08 Such as my own IRC adds a FLUSH command to cause it to flush the file buffer to output to the log files of the specified channel. Many add NS and CS, and some have additional services too. There is also a standard SUMMON command although as far as I know, nobody except me implements it. 02:51:56 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 02:52:45 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:52:46 -!- scarf has joined. 02:52:55 you shouldn't log 02:52:59 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:53:52 Private messages aren't logged; only permanent channels are logged, and the log files are public. 02:54:02 that's creepy 02:54:22 izabera: say hello to clog and glogbot 02:54:27 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:54:30 hello clog and glogbot 02:54:31 * oerjan _only_ logs private messages, mostly because #esoteric is already publically logged 02:54:56 (they're the bots feeding the two public logs in the topic) 02:55:01 oerjan: so it sounds like you and zzo38 together log all messages 02:55:02 izabera: (this channel is logged >_>) 02:55:03 Well, to log private message you send and receive, for your own purpose, is OK 02:55:06 and google indexes the logs 02:55:14 that's ok 02:55:24 having server-wide logs is creepy 02:55:26 Although, in my case I am logging all public messages to permanent channels in public. 02:55:52 oh server-wide 02:56:10 Still I don't (and don't want to) log private messages. 02:56:31 shachaf: if we only were logging the same server 02:57:04 So you can still seend a message to another client directly without being logged (I won't see the message either, unless I am the recipient). 02:58:10 (In such case you can still get logged by the sender and/or receiver of the message, but not by any other clients nor by the server.) 02:59:25 The IRCnet ircd still supports SUMMON, though it's not enabled by default, or in the IRCnet servers. 03:00:06 (It does the write(1)-style of thing of writing to the specified user's tty.) 03:00:30 how does the ircd have perms to write to a tty? 03:00:36 do they have to be on the local system? 03:00:37 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523. 03:00:44 as in, the user has to be on the same system as the ircd 03:00:57 ais523: Yes, that's how it has always worked. 03:01:29 probably not very useful for most modern uses of IRC, then 03:01:42 "The SUMMON command can be used to give users who are on a host running an IRC server a message asking them to please join IRC. This message is only sent if the target server (a) has SUMMON enabled, (b) the user is logged in and (c) the server process can write to the user's tty (or similar)." 03:01:49 Yes, it's very much of a relic. 03:02:08 irc servers can write to the user's tty. take this, facebook chat 03:03:31 Giving them the proper sgid settings is also not part of the standard install, you have to manually arrange for that too. 03:03:36 also requires IRC username to match UNIX username 03:03:42 err, IRC nick 03:03:46 or hmm 03:03:51 I guess you could SUMMON by username anyway 03:04:07 Yes, you give it a username. 03:04:37 But IRCnet is all dedicated servers, so it wouldn't be very useful. 03:05:21 (You don't have to be on the same server, you can "SUMMON user some.other.server" too.) 03:06:41 Also a relic: write(1). I wouldn't be surprised if these days it's major use was to be a mild annoyance at people who are trying to look at the man page for write(3) but neglect to specify the section. 03:13:37 man proc 03:13:44 oh fuck not again this stupid tcl man page 03:13:46 man 5 proc 03:15:47 On my own computer I use sounds to implement SUMMON, although when working on UNIX systems I do tend to tell them that they can just write to my tty or I can write to their tty, although the other people tend to prefer otherwise 03:17:11 I have 6 virtual terminals open right now 03:17:18 so people writing to them wouldn't know which one I wanted them to write to 03:17:25 (and I'm currently not looking at any of them) 03:18:01 Which ones are you logged into though? 03:18:23 All of them or only some? 03:18:23 they're running with my perms 03:18:34 I have another 6 running from getty but I'm not logged into any of those 03:18:52 (although I used one earlier to kill a process that was causing swapping) 03:18:54 fizzie: this makes me want networked wall 03:19:01 wait that was literally what that XP thing was 03:19:08 back when you could pop up an alert box for anyone just by knowing their IP 03:19:15 remember how microsoft released an operating system with that feature?? 03:19:20 -!- L8D has joined. 03:20:08 I remember when they released Windows 3.11 for Workgroups, yes. 03:20:08 Well, the other method is if you have a IRC server then SUMMON can be used, and then can be implemented according to how it is wanted to implemented. 03:20:29 "feature" 03:20:53 Or use the message send protocol 03:22:25 elliott: you wouldn't even have to know their IP, sending to every IPv4 address in the address space is within the reach of modern computers/connectinos 03:22:29 *connections 03:22:39 ais523: that involves knowing their IP though 03:22:45 I mean that is a method of finding their IP 03:22:51 okay this is an epistemological objection 03:23:00 you still wouldn't know what their IP was even after the message had been sent 03:23:10 right, okay 03:23:15 but you would know their IP 03:23:17 just not that it's theirs. 03:23:24 hmm 03:23:39 In the same way everyone knows all the IPs? 03:23:39 okay let's stop this conversation right here before we get deep into semiotics 03:23:40 I'm not sure I agree with your semantics there 03:23:44 fizzie: right. 03:23:56 but we don't "know" all the IPv6s in a concrete sense. okay, this is incoherent 03:24:08 just because there are too many of them? 03:25:00 right. 03:25:15 if we have an action to be performed on an IPv4 address 03:25:17 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:25:18 I mean, even 4 billion is a big number 03:25:24 and we want that action to be performed on the address owned by a certain person 03:25:30 we can accomplish this 03:25:32 ... 03:25:35 uh, depending on what the action is 03:25:36 even 3714444 is a big number (which is the number of tests my NH4 testsuite wants to run) 03:25:44 `factor 3714444 03:25:47 3714444: 2 2 3 3 3 163 211 03:25:51 "come to know whether or not the address belongs to a pre-specified person" is not a valid action 03:25:54 this is hard! 03:26:05 as long as it's a write-only action 03:26:20 but the point is that we can't do the same for IPv6, because brute force isn't a viable strategy there; you need more information. 03:26:30 ais523: right. IPv4 -> (), in a sense. 03:26:49 or, even, IPv4 -> only things derivable from communicating with that address. oh, god, somebody stop me 03:26:54 in a sense that allows some sort of side effect 03:27:11 hmm 03:27:18 oh, a couple of days ago I met an F# fan 03:27:29 but they weren't talking about F#, so it wasn't very informative in that respect 03:29:41 anyway, the point is that Windows XP SP0 wouldn't have had as huge a spam problem if we had moved to IPv6-only before then 03:29:48 draw whatever conclusions you wish 03:34:10 new technologies tend to be widely deployed before people think about their security implications 03:36:09 thank you, but I actually said draw, not type 03:36:15 please do that again but as an image 03:36:41 can't you just take a screenshot? 03:40:18 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 03:43:20 elliott: i think an interpretive dance would be better hth 03:43:38 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:44:09 oerjan: careful you might evoke the wrath of edwardk hth 03:44:33 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:45:50 i am sorry i wasn't aware that edwardk hated interpretive dance 03:46:49 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:49:56 also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAJBuGwQEHg 03:50:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:50:33 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 03:50:47 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 03:56:41 -!- newsham_ has joined. 03:56:44 -!- newsham has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:00:43 -!- newsham_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:01:30 -!- newsham has joined. 04:06:20 7-Zip can support many file formats, but I want to add also support of Hamster archive (without autodetection). I have successfully used 7-Zip to load .lzh files and .dmg files, as well as .rar files. (Probably hamarc is a better program to deal with Hamster archives, but still it can be useful to support many format in case someone has 7-Zip and try to load it) 04:07:04 -!- adu has joined. 04:13:33 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:16:41 Oh, speaking of NH. 04:16:57 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:17:11 In the tube, there was a charity ad for something called the "Orbis Flying Eye Hospital". 04:17:15 I think I parsed it wrong. 04:17:26 -!- L8D has joined. 04:17:59 (Although flying isn't quite floating.) 04:18:14 -!- adu has joined. 04:18:53 ? 04:19:08 Evil Eye Hospital 04:24:33 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:25:47 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:25:52 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 04:26:04 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 04:27:25 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:29:26 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 04:29:47 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 04:30:01 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:30:02 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 04:32:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:32:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 04:35:19 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:37:48 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/The_Original_Advertisement.jpg 04:48:18 did you see github's unicorn? 04:51:50 http://i.imgur.com/9ILmkTW.png here it is 04:52:39 isn't that d. shaw's user icon? 04:52:56 zed shaw 04:52:57 idk, i've seen it today for the first time 04:52:58 someone 04:53:13 there's some person in the same group as zed shaw who uses that pic on twitter 04:54:03 they used it during their downtime today 04:54:14 i mean, yesterday 04:54:39 I don't think it was that unicorn in specific 04:54:49 nvm 04:56:20 the corn isn't unique 05:08:51 -!- password2_ has joined. 05:09:01 not to diminish his grief, but has anyone other than b_jonas heard about that Matoušek guy before 05:11:19 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Nadinepi * New user account 05:11:57 any bets on whether or not that's a spambot account? 05:12:13 it sort-of looks like it could be, but "pi" is a bit shorter than their normal surnames 05:12:26 oh nadine 05:12:40 i initially parsed it as 4 random cv syllables 05:12:58 which is something a spambot might also do 05:13:30 oh, consonant vowel 05:13:32 hasn't hit the abuse log yet 05:13:40 ais523: you will be sorry when she posts her magnificent circular language 05:14:00 or possibly elated, it's that magnificent 05:14:24 shachaf: ME AM PLAY LINGUIST 05:14:30 What is a circular language? 05:14:47 shachaf: i dunno but anyone named pi surely knows how to make one 05:15:02 oerjan: You reminded me of elementary school English class, where they taught us that you double the second consonant in the "-ing" form of a word when you have a word of the form CVC 05:15:08 For instance, run->running 05:15:31 I have no idea if this rule is legitimate. It surely has exceptions, and at least this differs between US and UK English. 05:15:53 Anyway I probably haven't thought about the c/v thing since then. 05:16:13 shachaf: the normal rule is that you have to double the consonant if it'd affect the pronunciation of the last vowel in the word 05:16:15 i've been rereading the language construction kit recently 05:16:19 e.g. "runing" would have a long "u" 05:16:26 i,i runïng 05:16:27 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:16:39 I didn't like that class very much. 05:16:55 What do you do for e.g. "cancel"? 05:16:55 -!- ^v has joined. 05:16:56 shachaf: you forgot the hth how can edwardk bot impersonate you if you keep changing 05:16:59 Or "travel"? 05:17:01 cancelling 05:17:22 oerjan: where did you hear about that twh 05:18:24 travelling, sinning, fapping... but it doesn't work for eating or jumping 05:18:45 What do you do for e.g. "cancel"? <-- develop a US/UK split, imo 05:20:07 shachaf: "cancelling", "travelling" in UK english 05:20:42 Canadian english tends to be halfway between the two 05:22:03 hmm, so p, n, and l tend to double while t and d don't 05:22:26 no wait, adding does 05:22:58 screw it english has no damn rules 05:23:06 -!- rodgort` has joined. 05:24:23 oren: "add" has two d's already 05:24:23 OH. it's sort of phonetc 05:24:24 -!- ais523 has quit. 05:24:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 05:24:57 see, rapping has a short vowel while raping has a long vowel 05:25:06 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:25:06 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:25:07 -!- newsham_ has joined. 05:25:46 So if the word has a long vowel like eat, there is no double. 05:26:28 ear -> earring 05:26:56 consider hearing versus herring 05:27:50 bite biting, blit blitting 05:28:09 holy shit my world is changed] 05:29:05 shachaf that is a compund word though. ear ring 05:30:02 you'll be earring from my lawyer 05:30:08 which is why cupboard isn't cubberd 05:31:17 if someone is runing they are clearly carving runes 05:34:12 anyway to me "Nadinepi" looks like "na-di-ne-pi" 05:34:57 oerjan: where did you hear about that twh <-- check the logs hth 05:35:16 oerjan: a quick search with /last didn't find it hth 05:36:29 now if i only kept logs 05:37:03 oerjan: 20:32 one of these days i'll write a shachaf bot that takes random text and puts hth on the end and i,i at the start at random intervals throughout 05:37:12 oerjan: oh 05:37:14 I THINK I'VE FOUND THE CULPRIT HTH 05:37:51 what is i,i? 05:37:55 scoerjan 05:38:03 that works better if you pronounce j like jack 05:38:17 i don't hth 05:38:44 jack pronounces j like y, though 05:39:00 anyway to me "Nadinepi" looks like "na-di-ne-pi" <-- that's equivalent to what i said hth 05:41:51 tar -xvzf songs.tgz 05:41:57 crap 05:43:20 xkcd claims tar commands are hard to remember but i know them well 05:44:49 What I don't like is that I don't know how to run ssh and scp in the same terminal 05:46:10 When I am using tar I just use pipes with tar though 05:49:47 zzo38: is there a way to tar at this end and make a pipe to the other computer? 05:50:04 and then run tar -x at the other end 05:51:04 Yes you can use netcat 05:52:41 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:52:49 @metar ENVA 05:52:49 ENVA 220520Z 16005KT 130V200 9999 -SN FEW013 BKN032 M00/M03 Q1012 RMK WIND 670FT 19015KT 05:53:07 WHY IS THERE SNOW OUTSIDE 05:53:36 (ok it's melting, but still...) 05:53:43 you're in scandinavia in march hth 05:54:21 there is snow outside here too 05:55:16 @metar CYYZ 05:55:17 CYYZ 220500Z 30016KT 15SM FEW030 M06/M14 A3014 RMK SC1 SC TR SLP215 05:55:55 pesky bragging canadians 05:56:40 @metar KSJC 05:56:40 KSJC 220553Z 29005KT 10SM BKN200 14/10 A3014 RMK AO2 SLP207 T01440100 10222 20144 51013 05:57:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:57:27 pesky bragging californians 05:58:45 @metar LLBG 05:58:45 LLBG 220550Z 27012KT 9999 FEW040 16/06 Q1019 NOSIG 06:02:45 pesky bragging californian jews 06:03:36 whoa whoa whoa 06:03:59 i wasn't sure whether to leave in the californian 06:04:48 -!- password2_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:11:46 https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ceekars-4d-headphones-for-vr-games-movies-music why is this a thing 06:11:57 this should not be a thing, this should be done in software afaik 06:12:42 from this and xkcd we deduce that it will become immensely popular 06:12:44 your ears have two channels... why does any douns system have more than two channels 06:13:15 how the hell did I spell sound that badly 06:14:13 oren: well, in theaters, it's hard to make ear A not hear what is intended for ear B 06:14:20 oren: it makes sense in a room with several listeners but not in headphones i think 06:15:05 Sgeo: that would suggest you should only have one channel 06:15:35 * oerjan carefully moves away 06:18:16 -!- ^v^v has joined. 06:18:17 or are you suggesting the four channels use synced waves to cancel out the left channel at the right ear and cancel the right channel at the left ear? 06:20:16 I have no idea. I guess I'm imaging several surrounding channels used to fake positions poorly, as an imitation of what can be done with true 2 channel audio 06:20:53 -!- password2_ has joined. 06:21:02 Hmm... yeah that might work. I'm glad I own earbuds though. 06:21:38 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:21:49 Theatres should put headphone jacks on the seats like on an airplane 06:22:45 imagining 06:22:51 Why does that word look so weird 06:23:40 because the word imagine breaks the "e makes vowels long" rule 06:24:08 imaginning 06:25:00 -!- password2_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:25:23 -!- newsham_ has quit (*.net *.split). 06:27:04 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 06:30:00 hold on, what is up with the word poor? sometimes when I say it it rhymes with door, and sometimes with boor. 06:31:15 * oerjan has no idea how boor is pronounced 06:31:25 like lure 06:31:35 okau 06:31:36 with a /u/ 06:34:55 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:36:06 lol. go to this page and click on the play buttons to annoy people 06:36:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_vowel_chart_with_audio 06:38:04 like "dude, wtf" "AAHH UUHH OOHH EEE" "come on, stop it!" "AYYY OOUU AWWW" 06:40:43 -!- newsham has joined. 06:41:51 -!- iamevn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:42:21 -!- password2_ has joined. 06:45:42 -!- hjulle has joined. 07:12:47 oren: are you singing system of a down songs? 07:14:20 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:28:00 -!- password2_ has joined. 07:57:07 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:58:52 -!- olsner has joined. 08:02:14 -!- L8D has joined. 08:06:54 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:07:19 @version 08:07:19 lambdabot 5.0 08:07:19 git clone git://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot.git 08:07:49 > let (a,g) = System.Random.random (System.Random.mkStdGen 4) in a :: Int 08:07:51 No instance for (System.Random.Random t0) 08:07:51 arising from the ambiguity check for ‘g’ 08:07:51 The type variable ‘t0’ is ambiguous 08:08:15 most ridiculous failure of type inference ever? 08:15:09 :t System.Random.random 08:15:10 (Random a, RandomGen g) => g -> (a, g) 08:15:20 oh and 08:15:26 > let (a,_) = System.Random.random (System.Random.mkStdGen 4) in a :: Int 08:15:28 -258552320774346181 08:15:47 oerjan: I don't believe the type of System.Random.random has any implication that the types of a and g are in any way connected 08:16:02 which explains both the results you show there 08:16:25 the problem is that g is _clearly_ of type StdGen in both cases 08:17:04 the type of _that_ is not polymorphic at all. so why does whether it is named or not affect whether the rest types? 08:17:40 oh hm 08:17:51 it does affect what the _value_ of g is. 08:18:15 (a's type) 08:19:12 (this was an SO question btw) 08:19:51 but Haskell's types aren't meta-polymorphic, in that if you have a variable of type g, that determines whether it's also of type h for any type h 08:20:07 wat 08:21:23 well, say in Java 08:21:34 if I have a function that I know outputs a value of type JComponent 08:21:44 that doesn't let me determine whether the output is, say, of type JFrame 08:21:59 whereas, in Haskell, if a function outputs a StdGen, I know it's a StdGen and nothinge lse 08:23:41 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:28:08 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:37:39 -!- password2_ has joined. 08:54:46 oerjan: I dunno, but people keep asking questions about computational geometry on irc and other forums, and these questions are getting more and more relevant these days just like how machine vision is getting more relevant, so I think it can't hurt if at least the mathematically inclined people hear about him. 08:55:08 ok 08:57:55 oren: sure, you can use ssh somecomputer tar cC somedir . | tar xv 08:58:26 but be careful because the shell will reinterpret that command on the other machine, so you have to quote some characters two or three levels 09:06:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:14:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:20:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:23:23 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:23:46 -!- ^v^v has joined. 09:34:36 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 09:34:36 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:03:09 -!- _AndoDaan_ has joined. 10:04:00 -!- _AndoDaan_ has changed nick to AndoDaan. 10:06:24 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:10:44 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:19:38 -!- L8D has joined. 10:21:48 -!- password2_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:33:14 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 10:35:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:38:32 -!- password2_ has joined. 10:50:49 -!- ais523 has changed nick to callforjudgement. 10:50:55 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 10:50:57 -!- ais523 has changed nick to scarf. 10:51:02 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523. 10:54:36 -!- password2_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:56:01 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 11:09:18 -!- password2_ has joined. 11:26:49 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 11:27:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:27:08 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 11:43:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:56:20 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:58:02 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:00:47 -!- kapil___ has joined. 12:04:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:05:37 -!- CADD has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:09:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:09:27 -!- password2_ has joined. 12:32:08 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:37:46 -!- password2_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:45:42 shachaf: Re the CVC + double-consonant + -ing theory, mix -> mixxing? 12:46:21 Also, bow -> bowwing. 12:47:13 -!- nys has joined. 12:50:44 Or in general with 'w' in the end. (paw, row, saw, sew, tow.) 12:51:50 (Ditto for x.) 12:53:04 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 12:54:07 -!- L8D has joined. 12:54:52 -!- password2 has joined. 12:58:48 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 242 seconds). 13:11:58 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:22:48 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:31:23 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:31:51 -!- ^v^v has joined. 13:31:53 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:40:13 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 13:40:53 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:40:54 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:59:30 -!- boily has joined. 14:06:04 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 14:07:32 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:07:43 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 14:24:20 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 14:25:54 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:25:59 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 14:50:25 -!- kapil___ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 14:56:13 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 15:02:47 -!- Jumbo has joined. 15:03:57 Hello 15:08:21 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:09:41 Jumbhello! 15:13:37 boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes 15:14:13 olsner: no problem. always at people's service. 15:14:19 `relcome Jumbo 15:14:20 ​Jumbo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:14:23 `thanks boily 15:14:24 Thanks, boily. Thoily. 15:14:45 is django that python CGI thing? 15:15:00 hellolsner, helloren. 15:15:00 boily: you broke the streak 15:15:10 ais523: I know. 15:15:12 olsner being in all the django quotes was hilarious 15:15:19 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:15:32 oren: it's (probably) the most popularest python web framework. 15:15:47 clearly you should do Python websites with twisted 15:16:07 or, hmm 15:16:12 what would be less appropriate 15:16:16 numpy? that's arguably more appropriate though 15:16:20 -!- Jumbo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:16:27 as well as less likely to be used by mistake 15:16:31 -!- Jumbo has joined. 15:16:33 fwiw, I've never used django, but have done things with twisted 15:16:44 -!- Jumbo has left. 15:16:50 I'm only really familiar with PHP/zend, PHP/codeigniter and Perl/abomination written by dad 15:16:59 I did stuff with django. it was interesting, but I prefer pyramid 15:17:03 I've "used" twisted in the sense of working from existing code without understanding it 15:17:05 (twisted is just abhorrent.) 15:17:13 and just copying lines of code and experimenting until things worked 15:17:22 therefore, statistically speaking 15:17:29 it's likely to be the worst code I've written in the past 5 years or so 15:17:46 fizzie: I never said this rule was reliable. I think I found it suspicious even then in 3rd grade or whenever it was when I hardly spoke any English. 15:18:01 are there any reliable rules in English? 15:18:11 "single letters pluralize with apostrophe-s" perhaps 15:18:18 that one has to be taught because it's so different from everything else 15:18:22 fizzie: Some people might argue that x really stands for ks in this case, and that w isn't quite a consonant since it sort of forms a diphthong. 15:18:27 But I have no idea. 15:18:27 and only affects 26 words, so… 15:18:28 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 15:18:45 I don't pluralize with apostrophes, in general. 15:18:47 w is a vowel in Welsh 15:18:51 shachaf: nobody does in almost any case 15:18:54 that's why the letters are weird 15:19:00 I was taught to use names for letters 15:19:03 If it would be ambiguous I quote with an apostrophe in on both sides, as in "'a's". 15:19:06 (probably because 'a' to 'as', 'i' to 'i's just doesn't work) 15:19:17 * 'i' to 'is' 15:19:22 s/in // 15:19:30 apostrophe both sides could work, I guess 15:19:36 aes bees cees dees ees efs gees 15:19:37 (ofc, the plural of "I" is actually "we") 15:20:10 i,i s/i,i/we/ 15:20:27 YAELI: you start with a sequence of letters of your choice, then you can only apply standard English tense formation rules to it 15:20:34 well, pluralizing, noun→verb, and so on 15:20:37 in a tight loop 15:20:42 \Sigma_{i \in we} ... 15:20:47 whether this can be TC rather depends on how absurd the rules are 15:21:01 shachaf: \Sigma_{i \in us}, surely? 15:21:14 Wouldn't it be me in us? 15:21:23 err, I guess so, yes 15:21:29 I'm just used to the use of i as a loop variable 15:21:39 also H's is supposed to be "aitches". 15:22:01 all the cat's are out of the bag 15:22:12 huh, given the context 15:22:21 I interpreted "cat's" as the pluralization of the UNIX command cat 15:22:26 i did too 15:22:50 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 15:22:58 (because the plural of the animal is "cats", and because "cat" the command can sensibly be written in tt-font, and the single letters are sensibly interpreted as tt-font too) 15:23:39 If you're using a different font you don't need to disambiguate. 15:23:56 but it is biguated by context 15:24:32 what principle are you removing the "am-" prefix on? 15:24:53 it's not like "co-" or "un-" which in #esoteric prefix can be cancelled on another "co-" or "un-" respectively 15:25:02 hydrous anhydrous 15:25:16 that's an- not am- 15:25:28 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:25:30 and there aren't any prefix-changing prefixes involved 15:25:44 -!- AndoDaan_ has changed nick to AndoDaan. 15:26:02 ais523: the N undergoes a labialization to M because of the B 15:26:20 hmm, I'm not used to "anb" to "amb" but I can believe it 15:26:32 ambassador 15:27:13 oren: I'm not convinced that that ever had an an- prefix 15:27:25 I am not aware of any words with "nb" cluster anyway 15:27:48 there have to be lots, surely 15:27:52 * ais523 greps /usr/share/dict/words 15:28:20 oh yes, loads 15:28:35 such as "unbreakable" 15:28:40 we don't say "umbreakable" 15:29:03 fungot: do you umbreak? 15:29:03 boily: ah...... use what you like 15:29:13 fungot: thanks! umbreakable it is, then! 15:29:14 boily: yay. no more than any other oo system i've seen outperform sisc reliably by more than an order of magnitude 15:29:52 ais523: I'm having trouble distinctly saying unbreakable without it being un *glottal stop* breakable 15:30:25 I have 61 "unb-" words, 15 "umb-" words 15:30:49 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 15:30:49 and the "umb-" words are things like "umbrella" where the root seems to contain the m and b together 15:31:19 Oh. example symbiosis 15:31:34 with syn + biosis 15:31:36 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:31:48 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 15:31:48 yeah, I'll buy that 15:32:13 There's also the question whether when "n" is turned to the labiodental nasal [M] in eg. "information", it should be transcribed as "n" or "m". 15:32:30 As in, when it turns to "m" like in "embiggen", it's usually written as "m". 15:32:53 b_jonas: the first "n" in "information" is definitely pronounced as an "n" for me 15:33:19 ais523: I pronounce it as a labiodental nasal, that is, at the same place of articulation as the [f]: with the lower lips and upper teeth 15:33:23 symphony is the canonical labiodental example. 15:33:23 -!- S1 has joined. 15:33:30 boily: I definitely don't 15:33:34 -!- S1 has left. 15:33:37 err, *b_jonas: 15:33:37 the question is whether that is more similar to "n" or "m". 15:33:38 ais523: wikipedia does. 15:33:51 I guess it depends on accent a lot 15:34:02 boily: hmm 15:34:11 boily: but is that a modified "n" etymologycally? 15:34:15 um.. i'mma say it should be written as whichever it is in source language 15:34:21 * boily shrugs 15:34:24 b_jonas: perhaps. 15:34:42 syn phony 15:34:48 oren: that applies if it's a greek or latin borrowing as a whole, but what about new words with the in- prefix? 15:34:53 as in, new English words 15:36:17 hmm... infertile, inflame infect... seems like 'nf' is how you write such clusters 15:37:44 why would you change "in-" before "f"? "f" is a vowel 15:38:00 ais523: what? "f" is a consonant 15:38:12 b_jonas: you can hold an "f" indefinitely 15:38:14 ais523: and for the same reason why you usually change it to "m" before a "p" 15:38:16 you can't do that with true consonants like "b" 15:38:29 ais523: yes, because the "f" is a fricative, the "b" is a plosive 15:38:30 (actually I think the normal term is "semi-vowel") 15:38:33 ais523: f is a hissing noise between lower lip and upper teeth 15:38:34 no 15:38:55 ais523: "s" is a fricative too, which is why you can hold "s" indefinitely too, or at least as long as you're out of breath 15:39:32 um 15:39:36 as long as you're _not_ out of breath 15:39:40 quite a lot of apparent consonants can be held 15:39:46 "l", "r", "p" at a stretch 15:39:53 'synchronous' changes it to /ŋk/ 15:40:15 there's also something in the "g"/"j" space that can be held but it's not exactly either letter 15:40:31 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:40:33 probably the Chinese "zh" actually 15:40:46 oren: yes, before a "k" or "g" the "n" usually changes to a "ng" sound 15:41:03 the chinese zh is /ts/ iirc 15:41:05 "m" and "n" can be held; "kh" can be; "r" can be 15:41:24 ais523: yes, the [ʃ] and [ʒ] sounds are fricatives (they work almost the same as [s] and [z]) and thus can be held indefinitely 15:41:25 oren: I thought it was the second half of an English "j" (the first half is a "d") 15:42:10 [ʈʂ] 15:42:14 ais523: the [n] has a so called "release" which you can do only once and not hold, and is similar to the release of the [b], and this is preceded by a nasal sound 15:42:20 ais523: correct 15:42:41 b_jonas: is it possible to not do the release at all? 15:42:45 ais523: the English j is very similar or the same as a [dʒ] 15:42:49 I guess I can get a [n] to trail off 15:43:02 ais523: yes, but then people will think you're French, and _then_ it counts as a vowel 15:43:05 b_jonas: so now you can explain to me what a Hungarian "gy" is 15:43:26 it sounds similar to "j" to a Brit, but it definitely isn't exactly the same 15:43:30 ais523: the Hungarian "gy" is a plosive, it's like a "d" or a "g" but it's articulated somewhere between the two 15:43:49 b_jonas: huh, I think I can pronounce that 15:43:52 and it does sound a lot like "j" 15:43:54 it's a plosive so it also has a hold and a release, but you put the tongue between the two 15:44:14 ais523: but be careful, there's probably two or three different plosives like that, depending on where you put your tongue 15:44:39 ais523: http://www.madore.org/~david/misc/linguistic/ipa/ is a good resource, though it's not complete, so it doesn't tell everything 15:44:39 I normally don't care that much about pronouncing foreign languages without an accent 15:44:44 just, about pronouncing them intelligibly 15:44:59 also, isn't David Madore an esolanger? 15:45:14 inventor of Unlambda, apparently 15:46:53 ais523: yes 15:48:05 what that writeup doesn't explain is how the vowels work 15:48:14 there's a blog entry somewhere that explains part of that, but not completely 15:48:26 however, the consonants you asked about are in here 15:49:20 ais523: anyway, the point is, [ʒ] is a fricative, which means you can hold it forever, just like [z], but you put the tongue to a slightly different place. 15:50:33 and if you're speaking some Slavic languages, you can produce not two but like four or five different fricative variants that are all velar (which means your tongue is pushed against the top of your mouth) like [z] and [ʒ] 15:50:35 ʒ is voiced version of english "sh" 15:50:50 but I've no idea how to pronounced all the different versions of those, or how to hear the difference between them 15:50:55 oren: correct 15:51:26 b_jonas: huh, I don't put the tongue to the top of my mouth for [z] 15:51:43 the main differentce between it and [ʒ] is the position of my teeth 15:52:04 ais523: you put it on the sides of the palate 15:52:17 and argh, yes, it's not called "velar" but "palatal" or something 15:52:20 stupid latin 15:52:20 I put it a bit behind my teeth 15:52:36 or maybe it's called something different, let me look in that article I linked to 15:52:46 "alveolar" 15:52:51 that doesn't even mean anything 15:52:53 ok, whatever 15:53:00 make it "alveolar" 15:53:43 velar vs. uvular fricative is difficult for me to distinguish 15:54:16 alveolar versus dental is hard for me, uvular and velar are pretty easy, because uvular makes me choke 15:55:03 whatever, all that stuff apart from labials ([p]), dentals ([t], [θ]), labiodentals ([f], [ɱ]) are somewhere inside your mouth, impossible to see where, and I can't follow which is where 15:55:07 or did you means distinguish upone hearing it 15:55:23 oren: either 15:56:26 labial is obvious, except at the start of words, because you have to close your lips for it. dental is obvious because if you do it wrong you spit salvia. labiodental is obvious because you have to put your teeth towards your lips while your lips aren't closed. 15:56:50 the rest is complicated because yuo have to do stuff with your tongue that's invisible without X-rays or something 15:57:10 mind you, people _have_ done x-ray photos for this for educational purposes 15:57:15 so you can look that up 15:57:16 but still 15:57:26 yuo don't see it in everyday life 16:00:08 most children learn the rest by reverse-engineering what they hear, but only up to the equivalence classes used in their particular language 16:02:17 it's a bad system. phonetics should be taught open-source rather than everyone having to reverse-engineer compatible ways to produce the sounds 16:03:25 and I mean, taught open source to most people, not just the few that have speaking or hearing disabilities 16:04:45 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 16:05:12 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 16:05:48 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:05:52 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 16:06:34 for reference, http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2013-05-06.2138.voyelles-cardinales.html is the entry that tells part of the story about vowels 16:06:55 `run bash -c $(sed 's//echo /' twolines) 16:06:56 sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression \ bash: -c: option requires an argument 16:07:15 So uh. 16:07:20 `run bash -c $(sed -e 's//echo /' twolines) 16:07:21 sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression \ bash: -c: option requires an argument 16:07:41 I guess I don't understand how sed works. 16:07:59 `run bash -c $(sed -e 's/^/echo /' twolines) 16:08:00 No output. 16:08:02 HackEgo: try double quotes around the $() 16:08:05 this isn't zsh/tcsh 16:08:08 `run bash -c "$(sed -e 's/^/echo /' twolines)" 16:08:09 first \ second 16:08:17 `run echo thanks b_jonas 16:08:18 thanks b_jonas 16:08:27 `cat twolines 16:08:27 first \ second 16:08:28 Sweet. 16:08:35 `wc twolines 16:08:35 `sed -e 's/^/echo /' twolines 16:08:36 ​ 2 2 13 twolines 16:08:36 sed: -e expression #1, char 2: unknown command: `'' 16:08:41 `run sed -e 's/^/echo /' twolines 16:08:42 echo first \ echo second 16:09:30 echo No output. > twolines 16:13:05 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 16:15:06 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:17:32 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 16:18:19 -!- ^v has joined. 16:24:12 -!- S1 has joined. 16:26:37 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:27:09 -!- S1 has quit (Client Quit). 16:30:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:30:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:31:44 -!- L8D has joined. 16:35:12 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 16:36:58 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:37:10 -!- iamevn has joined. 16:38:34 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:45:37 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:49:41 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:49:56 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 17:01:33 < oren> but it is biguated by context – It’s actually ambi- + agere. 17:03:21 -!- Enki has joined. 17:03:34 -!- Enki has changed nick to Enki01. 17:07:08 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 17:13:44 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 17:13:48 -!- Enki01 has left ("Leaving"). 17:14:54 -!- ^v has joined. 17:16:00 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 17:16:17 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:16:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:27:47 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 17:30:04 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:30:12 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 17:39:52 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 17:40:14 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 17:41:12 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:41:17 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 17:43:38 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:46:04 -!- G33kDude has joined. 17:46:14 -!- G33kDude has quit (Changing host). 17:46:14 -!- G33kDude has joined. 17:47:34 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:47:43 -!- G33kDude has changed nick to GeekDude. 17:48:51 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 17:50:13 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 18:07:47 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 18:23:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:33:21 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:36:38 `run sed -e 's/^/echo /e' twolines 18:36:39 first \ second 18:36:56 you meant that one 18:40:11 there's an “e” switch for sed regexps'? 18:40:14 * boily shudders 18:40:52 it's a gnu extension 18:41:21 it basically passes the whole line to system() 18:41:33 it's also a valid command in gnu sed 18:41:48 `` sed e <<< 'echo hurr durr durr' 18:41:50 hurr durr durr 18:45:52 -!- nys has left ("Leaving"). 18:48:14 `dog 18:48:15 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dog: not found 18:49:35 -!- hjulle has joined. 18:50:11 `` ls bin/d* 18:50:12 bin/danddreclist \ bin/define \ bin/delquote \ bin/delvs \ bin/dis86 \ bin/dontaskdonttelllist \ bin/don'taskdon'ttelllist 18:50:32 `? delvs 18:50:32 delvs? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:50:36 `delvs 18:50:37 Usage: delvs 18:50:47 hmm... sounds ominous. what's a vs? 19:04:44 -!- zadock has joined. 19:13:13 the code looks like an old version of https://github.com/L8D/delvs/ before it acquired socket operations 19:13:40 (it's a brainfuck with some extra operations) 19:15:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:18:46 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:21:33 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:38:31 -!- iamevn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:40:56 -!- iamevn has joined. 19:42:17 Or it would be if the code for skipping to the closing ] were correct. 19:47:33 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 19:49:53 -!- mitchs_ has quit (Quit: mitchs_). 20:01:30 -!- mitchs has joined. 20:01:57 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:03:21 -!- bb010g has joined. 20:07:29 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 20:09:14 -!- L8D has joined. 20:13:52 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:16:37 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:20:43 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:21:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:22:19 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:22:39 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSleep. 20:24:09 `` quote django | tail -3 20:24:10 884) `pastequotes django http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5404 I'm still in all of them :( someone else get quoted saying django please \ 1101) `addquote \item `addquote two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst par 20:24:19 `` quote django | tail -2 20:24:20 1101) `addquote \item `addquote two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes. \ 1115) I love django. 20:25:07 oh right, I was going to 20:25:09 hellørjan. reminiscing about the djangiraffe madness? 20:25:13 `addquote boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes 20:25:19 1236) boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes 20:25:55 olsner: apparently 87,5% was too low. enjoy your eternal acute djangoness hth 20:26:08 boily: belloily. just logreading. i think elliott may be evil hth 20:26:35 `` quote django | wc 20:26:36 ​ 9 245 1622 20:26:47 > 7/9 20:26:48 0.7777777777777778 20:26:53 um no 20:27:00 > 8/9 20:27:01 0.8888888888888888 20:27:09 ...i should know that one. 20:27:27 olsner: 's ok just remember 8 is a lucky number 20:29:45 I don't believe in elliott's evilness. maybe he ranks at about 3 or 4 millioerjans, which is statistical background noise. 20:30:03 `` cat dog # this exists, right? 20:30:07 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ 20:30:16 boily: fair enough 20:32:50 just 9 more rep... 20:34:37 rep, as in lifting? 20:34:46 as in stackoverflow 20:35:07 (reputation) 20:35:27 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:45:36 @tell ais523 i think as and is work fine as is hth 20:45:36 Consider it noted. 20:45:58 * oerjan may or may not actually mean that 20:51:01 * boily is verily tempted to mapole oerjan hth 20:51:04 -!- iamevn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:53:48 @tell ais523 un- is a germanic prefix while an- is latin the labialization only applies to the latter hth 20:53:48 Consider it noted. 20:54:15 @tell ais523 no wait, greek. 20:54:15 Consider it noted. 20:54:29 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 20:55:52 @tell ais523 except it doesn't because greek actually uses a- before consonants. latin in- works that way, though. 20:55:52 Consider it noted. 20:56:38 @tell ais523 also ambiguous doesn't actually have an am- prefix. 20:56:38 Consider it noted. 20:58:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:00:36 @tell ais523 yes it does. consider biguity. 21:00:36 Consider it noted. 21:00:57 * oerjan swats boily -----### 21:01:01 hi hi hi ^^ 21:01:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: AVOCABULANT CHICKEN). 21:02:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:02:52 @tell boily avocabulant isn't a word hth 21:02:52 Consider it noted. 21:03:14 -!- iamevn has joined. 21:06:30 @tell ais523 looking at wiktionary, the amb- in ambassador is cognate to ambi- but the path it took is really convoluted. 21:06:30 Consider it noted. 21:06:52 @ask int-e did you fix the bug where lambdabot drops messages if you get too many twh 21:06:52 Consider it noted. 21:08:52 @messages-clear 21:08:53 Unknown command, try @list 21:09:23 I know of that bug. 21:10:03 oh you're still there. my attempt to force my sleeping rhythm later has failed in such a way that my mind thinks it's after midnight already. 21:10:04 * int-e is looking at the fallout from ghc-7.10.1 21:10:29 on lambdabot? 21:10:48 its dependencies, mostly 21:16:08 int-e: well the bug hampers my ability to harass^Wadvise ais523 in absentia tdnh 21:17:12 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 21:17:22 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: rebooting). 21:17:30 patience, the bug has been there for years, surely it can wait a few weeks more 21:17:37 :P 21:18:13 now why does lambdabot depend (indirectly though) on shake... 21:21:49 -!- Melvar has joined. 21:22:15 oerjan: how do you feel about applying https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot/blob/79c694230952a8c560e7032b458b42f26661827a/patches/unlambda-0.1.3-ghc-7.10.patch to http://hackage.haskell.org/package/unlambda and making a new release? 21:23:33 i'm actually never been the maintainer for that package despite it descending from my code 21:23:37 *i've 21:24:06 ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:24:26 `addquote ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:24:28 1237) ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:24:54 oerjan: well there is no maintainer, so you can likely claim it for yourself easily :P 21:24:59 @tell boily you are right i'm more evil than elliott hth 21:24:59 Consider it noted. 21:25:17 int-e: except i don't have a github account hth 21:25:25 _or_ a hackage one. 21:25:28 oerjan: that quote should include me adding the previous one to the qdb, ideally 21:25:35 in the spirit of django quotes being unfunny and confusing 21:25:38 oerjan: the unlambda thing isn't on github anyway 21:25:46 oh. 21:27:47 -!- f|`-`|f_ has joined. 21:28:40 -!- idris-bot has joined. 21:28:51 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:28:57 -!- f|`-`|f_ has changed nick to f|`-`|f. 21:29:14 elliott: but then i'd have to actually find where you did that. 21:29:45 oerjan: you can reconstruct it from the previous quote 21:32:15 ooh good point 21:32:27 `` quote django | tail -2 21:32:29 1236) boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes \ 1237) ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:34:06 oerjan: hmm, mokus has an unlambda repository on github... I wonder... 21:34:55 `revert 21:35:00 Done. 21:35:07 `addquote `addquote boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes [...] ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:35:09 1237) `addquote boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes [...] ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:35:15 `` quote django | tail -2 21:35:16 1236) boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes \ 1237) `addquote boily: thanks for getting quoted saying django btw, now I'm only in 87.5% of the django quotes [...] ah, the inevitable result of mentioning django 21:45:54 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:46:19 -!- ^v^v has joined. 21:53:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:56:22 -!- Zefphex has joined. 21:58:14 -!- L8D has joined. 22:01:53 ^\s+|$\s+ 22:02:35 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:09:33 ㅜㅡㅜ 22:10:08 -!- Zefphex has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:10:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:21:43 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:23:12 -!- gde33 has joined. 22:24:15 -!- oren has joined. 22:29:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:32:20 < oren> but it is biguated by context – It’s actually ambi- + agere. <-- oh. so _both_ parts of amgiguous and ambassador are cognates... 22:32:31 fancy 22:33:24 -!- zadock has joined. 22:34:20 @tell ais523 in fact Melvar mentioned the two parts "ambiguous" come from, and they're cognate to the two parts of "ambassador" :P 22:34:20 Consider it noted. 22:36:18 @tell ais523 essentially both words are originally from something meaning "moving around" 22:36:18 Consider it noted. 22:37:59 @tell ais523 oh and the -m- never was a -n-, as far back as proto-indoeuropean. 22:37:59 Consider it noted. 22:43:25 int-e: you'll tell ais523 what he missed, right? 22:44:15 Consider it biguated. 22:46:52 syn phony <-- actually συμφωνία has a μ in greek hth 22:47:40 Consider it membered 22:48:02 membered, for the first time 22:48:31 member. not even once. 22:49:31 why do people derstand these simple words? 22:50:41 because they're so azing 22:51:28 (re- + memor, under + stand) 22:54:25 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:57:39 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:01:40 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:10:12 oerjan: unlikely 23:10:35 -!- Vorpal has joined. 23:10:40 When trying to unzip on a Linux system I got "-bash: /net/home/black/bin/unzip: No such file or directory" 23:10:42 UNACCEPTABLE 23:11:00 But now how am I going to fix it please? 23:12:10 * int-e curses 23:14:47 aha, so that's why cpressey's webpage system is called chrysoberyl 23:15:11 zzo38: huh, so what is that unzip file? 23:16:02 zzo38: I would guess that the file exists, but perhaps is referring to an ld.so or shared library that doesn't. 23:16:52 That's what I thought 23:17:03 Since someone told me before thing like that is caused 23:17:21 I found where I can download the binaries, but how to figure out what libc is needed? 23:17:56 I thought most linux distributions ship some kind of unzip 23:18:25 other ideas ... does jar understand compressed zip files? 23:18:51 I think most .jars are compressed zip files. 23:19:10 Yes, .jar is also a ZIP archive 23:19:17 At least I've always assumed it's all DEFLATE. 23:19:24 Although the system I am using doesn't have jar either 23:19:25 fizzie: I have not looked in over a decade; they used to be uncompressed. 23:19:37 Aren’t jars just zips with a certain metadata file or files inside? 23:19:55 Melvar: Yes, but you don't need to compress a zip. 23:20:00 Melvar: the idea was to use jar to unpack the zip file. 23:20:03 (As in, there's a "store" compression method.) 23:20:55 It doesn't have 7-Zip either; I checked that too 23:21:01 It does have wget 23:21:24 int-e: FWIW, a randomly chosen .jar (/usr/share/tomcat7/lib/tomcat-util.jar) was compressed. 23:21:35 (With DEFLATE.) 23:22:01 The computer I am trying to use is x86_64 GNU/Linux and 3.2.0-77-generic #114 Ubuntu 23:22:20 Does the compression method affect anything germane to the idea of using jar to decompress an arbitrary zip? 23:22:46 Melvar: If all .jar files are uncompressed, the jar tool might not support any compression methods. 23:22:59 Melvar: I mean, hypothetically. They're compressed, and it does. 23:23:05 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 23:27:43 oerjan: look at this wonderful hack: http://sprunge.us/VcXA?sh ;-) 23:30:49 Well, I tried one, and it didn't work 23:31:14 what distribution are you using anyway? 23:31:46 It says "Linux beryllium 3.2.0-77-generic #114-Ubuntu SMP Tue Mar 10 17:26:03 UTC 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux" 23:31:55 O KAY 23:31:56 I have no administration access 23:32:32 okay, but you can still fetch a .deb for unzip... which are ar files containing tgz files, the binary will be in data.tar.gz (or is it tgz...) 23:32:32 So, I cannot use the package manager. 23:33:12 And you can use dpkg-deb to unpack debs without having any special access. 23:33:13 that should have a better chance of working than looking for random binaries 23:34:33 And then what? 23:35:04 then you have a working unzip binary? 23:36:34 I still don't know what to do though, yes I do have dpkg-deb but don't know where to find the package or what need to be done with it 23:37:45 For Ubuntu, you can get them at http://packages.ubuntu.com/ 23:37:53 You can do "lsb_release -a" to figure out the Ubuntu version. 23:37:56 http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=unzip should find the .deb file; onoce unpacked it'll give you an unzip binary 23:38:32 int-e's link has list of versions of unzip for each release. 23:39:48 The page for a particular version has a "Download unzip" table for architectures, and Ubuntu's name for x86_86 is "amd64". 23:40:33 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 23:40:34 And dpkg-deb's (rather poor) user interface is "dpkg-deb -x unzip.deb some-directory-name", to extract the package files into some-directory-name, and afterwards you should find a binary in some-directory-name/usr/bin/unzip. 23:41:04 O, OK thanks 23:42:34 Which one is the correct package though? 23:43:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:45:03 If you mean which one out of "lucid", "precise", "trusty", "utopic", "vivid" (holy moly, are they up to V already?), lsb_release -a should have a 'codename' field matching one of them. Unless it's a no-longer-supported version of Ubuntu. 23:46:40 OK, now I see 23:46:45 I didn't know lsb_release command 23:47:27 the kernel version suggests 12.04 23:47:58 ("precise") 23:48:40 Yes, that's the response I got when I troed lsb_release -a 23:49:39 There are probably many ways to determine current Ubuntu version. lsb_release is a "standard" tool from the Linux Standard Base, so it can work on other distributions, too. I don't know how widely supported it is. 23:49:47 (s/version/metadata/, the compilation time probably has the most information contents in there) 23:50:47 works in debian (no surprise there), doesn't work in Arch. I wonder about Gentoo... 23:51:58 cat /etc/issue is another idea 23:52:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:52:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:57:36 OK I figured out how to unpack it now 23:58:31 I did it by: dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile unzip_6.0-4ubuntu2.3_amd64.deb | tar xO ./usr/bin/unzip > ~/bin/unzip 23:59:21 (I used apt-get download to download the package first; the webpage says using aptitude and I looked at the man page so I figured out now) 2015-03-23: 00:02:54 Now I downloaded ZORKMID and tried to compile it, I got several warnings about unused return values. I didn't get those messages before. 00:03:52 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/475057068/frog-fractions-2 00:03:54 3:28 00:04:06 Wait 00:04:12 0:29 00:04:25 I... think the video player switched 'time left' and 'time' 00:12:04 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:13:47 -!- L8D has joined. 00:14:33 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:18:59 oh huh they managed to fund that? 00:25:00 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:34:01 Do you know if there is a command in vi to load the text typed during one insert mode into the clipboard buffer? I want to learn what command it has 00:34:43 -!- ^v has joined. 00:34:58 the closest thing i know is . 00:59:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:08:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:24:29 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 01:26:31 -!- oren has joined. 01:39:07 zzo38: The last thing you typed in insert ought to be in the ". register, then you should be able to put the contents into the clipboard with :let @+=@. or :let @*=@., I think 01:40:38 Regarding "Do you know if there is a command in vi to load the text typed during one insert mode into the clipboard buffer? I want to learn what command it has" 01:57:09 O, OK 02:11:10 is instant coffee stronger than espresso? I think it must be... 02:11:59 oren: Define "stronger". 02:12:33 pikhq: um, does it have more coffee stuff in it 02:13:09 ... "caffiene" that's the word 02:13:33 im kind of all jittery right now 02:14:37 Ah. Espresso has much more caffeine extracted from it, though it's only more per unit volume *not* more per serving. 02:14:54 Ohh.... so apparently the jar says one scoop of powder per mug, I assumed an equal amount of powder and boiling water 02:15:04 Oh christ, no wonder. 02:15:16 -!- ^v^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:15:27 Congrats, you've made quite concentrated coffee. 02:16:05 this has not been the best idea on a sunday night 02:16:08 lol 02:16:11 Also, flavor-wise instant coffee is going to be inferior (just as a consequence of how it's made)... FYI. 02:17:52 ah. yeah although I got the boilig water using the espresso machine.... 02:18:41 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:18:47 So how much of the powder would you say you used? 02:19:04 Sounds like as though you drank the rough equivalent of a pot of coffee in a single cup? 02:19:05 I'm surprised it's not full of grit. 02:19:37 ProofTechnique: Shouldn't be. Instant coffee shouldn't have much of anything to produce noticable grit. 02:20:02 the mug is about 500 ml, so... 250 ml of powder (although powder course thus less) and then boilig wter and str til it disolvd 02:20:17 I would expect much more than recommended per unit of water would leave some behind, though. 02:20:42 it seems it didnt... 02:20:43 Not especially -- coffee is not usually a saturated solution. 02:20:44 Wow. You're gonna have quite a crash. 02:20:48 lol 02:21:05 Yeah, that's gonna be... maybe 500mg of caffeine? 02:23:26 -!- adu has joined. 02:23:53 02:14:48 pikhq: um, does it have more coffee stuff in it 02:23:53 02:15:25 ... "caffiene" that's the word 02:23:56 this is kind of adorable 02:23:59 hmm based on internet medical info it's near-imposible to overdose on coffee, so i'll just, um, try and do some work or someithing 02:24:09 well you can overdose on caffeine but 02:24:13 fairly easily even I think 02:24:18 but, like, caffeine pills. 02:24:23 ah 02:24:50 "The LD50 of caffeine in humans is dependent on individual sensitivity, but is estimated to be 150 to 200 milligrams per kilogram of body mass" 02:25:01 as long as you weigh more than 3 kilograms you should be okay 02:25:13 I weight 154 punds 02:25:18 Yeah. Caffeine's safety isn't because it's nigh-impossible to overdose but rather because the effective dose is so massively lower than the dangerous dose. 02:26:01 Meaning that there's approximately no way you're going to actually *ingest* a dangerous dose without trying. 02:26:37 Kinda like you'd have one hell of a time hitting the LD50 of LSD. 02:28:57 hmm 500ml coffee weight aprox 0.5 kg means I am now 1/140th made of coffee 02:30:13 lololol 02:30:45 because 154 pund = 70kg almost exacly 02:32:40 "pund" = Scandinavian approximation of .5kg? 02:33:17 * pikhq does greatly appreciate that treatment of the traditional units: round 'em and use 'em as clean approximations of the metric units. 02:33:21 pund is me trying to type pound 02:33:30 Ah. 02:34:15 oerjan: that @messages bug will be fixed the next time I rebuild lambdabot (which will happen when ghc-7.10.1 gets released) 02:34:17 pund is a unit of how much you weight 02:34:18 So you actually mean avoirdupois pounds. k. 02:35:19 interestingly my puls does not appear to have risen. sys 127 dia 80 pulse 66 02:35:32 which is abput avergae for me 02:35:59 I guess you're mostly getting the neurological effects. 02:37:12 * oren wonders wether most peple have blodd presure meters in their houses 02:37:38 I use a belt and a tire pressure tester. 02:38:02 I'm good for another 3000 miles, at least! 02:38:17 do you guys know what's a pangram? 02:38:32 a thing with all letters in it 02:38:36 kewl 02:38:40 the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog 02:38:41 i want an email that's a pangram 02:38:44 yeah like that 02:39:11 help me find something that makes sense and doesn't have many repeated letters and ends in @gmail.com 02:41:36 gmail.com has 2 m's. :( 02:42:04 doesn't have >>many<< repeated letters 02:42:58 less than 10 repeated letters would be a good start, i guess 02:47:23 this is a set cover problem i thing 02:48:10 one of kaprs npc problems 02:48:54 *Karp's NP-complete porblems 02:49:04 hey i didn't ask for a good solution in the general case :P 02:50:14 Hmm possibly we can generate random pangrams using dict/words and then pick out good ones? 02:50:54 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:50:59 yeah but it's kinda hard... 02:51:24 first of all, it's hard to make meaningful sentences out of that list 02:51:43 -!- Zefphex has joined. 02:52:00 Replace oerjans name with Onii-Chan 02:52:10 Onii-jan 02:52:38 yes 02:52:48 * Zefphex gives prize 02:53:03 -!- oren has changed nick to Ourin-kun. 02:53:42 lol 02:53:44 WaqfsBurkDepthVizJynx@gmail.com 02:53:59 Our rin kun 02:54:20 Who's gay mail is that 02:54:36 izabera wanted one thats a pangram 02:54:50 I had to add some vowels back in 02:54:53 I'm listening to music 02:55:09 soamit 02:55:12 Ourin-kun: :\ that doesn't make much sense 02:55:14 so am i 02:55:15 Only 3 repeated letters, though 02:55:19 what's waqfs 02:55:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waqf 02:55:37 no clu 02:55:45 i thought it was some kind of file system 02:56:11 lol someone should make a steganogarphic file system called that 02:56:17 it happens to be a Japanese song that I cannot understand but I find pleasing to listen to because the language is p. good 02:56:47 Would never speak it tho i'd go for my ancesteral language that is dying 02:56:50 Gaelic 02:57:55 HurtAndVexedByZFS+JKPQW@gmail.com 02:58:04 i can say spaghetti in italian 02:58:06 +JKPQW 02:58:07 ? 02:58:10 ... 02:58:25 I just realized I am less than 4 weeks away from end of my university degree 02:58:29 I couldn't come up with anything for those, and gmail let's you get away with that + stuff 02:58:36 -!- Ourin-kun has changed nick to Ourin-sempai. 02:58:49 Only 4 repeated characters, still 02:58:59 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:59:13 http://www.dunedinit.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Too_many_toolbars-1024x837-1.jpg 02:59:53 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:59:57 It's obviously a reference to this picture: http://twitpic.com/jkpqw 03:00:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:00:09 my gmail usernames are very terrible 03:00:56 this song i'm listening to is great, but for no apparent reson it begins with a clip of the Apollo 8 genesis reading 03:01:15 The song is David Dima - Tsundere Night 03:02:28 the song has nothing to do with apollo 8 or the bible... lol wut 03:02:48 *senpai 03:03:45 Sin pie* 03:04:11 -!- Ourin-sempai has changed nick to Ourin-senpai. 03:04:32 *supine 03:05:06 -!- L8D has joined. 03:05:18 Hmm, iirc at least one romanization scheme uses m when ン changes before a p,b, or m kana 03:05:45 Apparently according to the internet Mami from madoka magika Is the waifu of Hitler 03:05:45 That wouldn't surprise me. 03:06:13 What are you listening to Senpai? 03:06:48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfeer7aqHWc 03:07:24 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:07:34 How do you make a multi-dimensional fluid Quadrangle 03:09:37 Give it a few drinks and a hobby. 03:09:52 Probably 03:09:54 float p[X][Y][Z]; float u[X][Y][Z][3]; 03:10:03 then apply Eulers equations 03:10:18 Ofc how could I foeget 03:10:23 for* 03:11:33 of course you need to define the dimensions of the quadrangle as #defines of X Y Z 03:11:50 A quadrangle is a uh 03:12:03 Well I cant say triangle with 4 sides 03:12:12 Then its not a triangle nor a square 03:12:20 Fyack 03:12:23 polygon? 03:12:24 Shapes 03:12:36 No it doesn't look like that 03:12:47 Its like Hmmm well idk 03:12:53 I just know its a shape 03:13:00 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 03:13:24 a quadrangle is a place inside a university 03:13:45 there are sevral at my university 03:14:24 oh ironically it's called by its sides: quadrilateral 03:15:15 * int-e wonders 03:15:43 ok, google says quadrangle is more common... but it sounds less familiar to me. and I should sleep. good night. 03:16:22 Goot nighg 03:17:35 -!- ^v has joined. 03:17:58 I want to donate my pipe organs to my organs before I die please 03:20:43 Ily Senpai 03:21:02 Which Senpai am I talking about 03:21:06 Who knows 03:29:48 apparently the girl who rejected me for prom in HS is now at York and engaging in Enjokousai for grades 03:30:20 whew I sure dodged a bullet there 03:32:58 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:32:59 -!- Lymia has joined. 03:32:59 Sekushii ne. 03:33:00 `addquote is instant coffee stronger than espresso? I think it must be... [...] Ohh.... so apparently the jar says one scoop of powder per mug, I assumed an equal amount of powder and boiling water 03:33:02 1238) is instant coffee stronger than espresso? I think it must be... [...] Ohh.... so apparently the jar says one scoop of powder per mug, I assumed an equal amount of powder and boiling water 03:37:12 #define die(x,y...) ({printf(y); exit(x);}) 03:37:23 Onii-Jan 03:37:45 can you skip the y 03:37:50 x,z 03:43:49 #define box(x) ({typeof(x) *_xptr=malloc(sizeof(*_xptr));*xptr=(x);xptr;}) 03:44:11 lololol 03:44:29 Where should I run a string like that 03:44:37 #define box(x) ({typeof(x) *_xptr=malloc(sizeof(*_xptr));*_xptr=(x);_xptr;}) 03:44:46 Those are some possibilities of C preprocessor used with GNU extensions 03:45:06 "pund" = Scandinavian approximation of .5kg? <-- i can't speak for swedish and danish, but in norwegian that's not a unit still in actual use, unlike "mil". 03:45:32 (hi from backscroll. i took a 3 hour nap.) 03:45:47 I could use such a nap 03:46:06 int-e: thanks! 03:47:19 -!- password2 has joined. 03:48:26 <* oren wonders wether most peple have blodd presure meters in their houses <-- i don't hth 03:48:28 Sleeping to much cuts your life expectancy up 03:49:03 Though I suppose if you just take a 3 hour nap two or three times a day, it's probably fine. 03:49:56 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:50:52 #define let(x,y) typeof(y) x = (y) 03:51:21 Give me a complex lua string 03:53:27 i 03:53:54 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:55:24 have 03:56:13 to 04:00:45 i can say spaghetti in italian <-- hey i had you down as an _actual_ italian after that benvenuto thing :( 04:01:26 i am 04:01:28 lol 04:01:31 please don't sabotage my quest to rudely classify all #esotericians 04:02:49 into the water, into the truth, in your reflection, he lives in you 04:05:55 I can say spaghetti in english! 04:06:22 -!- password2 has joined. 04:15:35 @tell int-e Thanks! 04:15:35 Consider it noted. 04:16:38 * oerjan finally reaches his own messages in the backscroll 04:22:39 -!- dianne has joined. 04:25:17 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:25:49 Sleeping to much cuts your life expectancy up <-- well it was to compensate for getting up too early in the evening hth 04:28:02 * oerjan reaches the end of backscroll 04:28:13 thank you, it's been a wild ride 04:28:52 Onii-jan 04:29:06 You cant be breaking your sleep schedule like dat 04:29:23 am i a red oni or a blue oni? 04:31:14 Zefphex: but if i don't break it i won't be awake for my dentist checkup! 04:31:35 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 04:32:14 also your insistence on "normalcy" only gets you classified as someone unfit to give me advice hth 04:33:02 So you like having latex fingers lightly carress your mouth flesh 04:33:18 about once a year, yes. 04:33:42 as long as the outcome is "this looks good" 04:34:20 my dentist is a 74 year old holocaust survivor from europe who tells me to "shuttup and take the pain you spoiled brat" and stuff like that, despite me being in my 30's 04:34:27 Are you a oni at all? Or one of a different color than red and blue (such as white and black)? 04:35:34 My dentist is a Vietnamese veteran and some times has ptsd and flips out and runs off 04:35:44 But atleast my teeth are clean 04:36:07 you got me beat, yours is younger and prob more crazy 04:37:39 -!- password2 has joined. 04:37:46 There is other possible use of typeof too, possibly to combine with zero length arrays 04:38:37 zzo38: pretty sure i don't fit either hth 04:39:52 You could also make combine sizeof with zero length arrays, to make "compile time type identification"; it doesn't waste memory like run time type identification would do 04:44:01 My dentist is a childhood friend of my grandmother. 04:44:05 ni ni 04:44:24 -!- Zefphex has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:47:40 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:48:25 There are possibility in C to make structures that never have any variables or anything else of that type. 04:48:43 One reason I have done it is to make sizeof assertions, although there are other possibilities too 04:48:57 i don't know what my dentist is except a dentist. 04:49:18 and female, most of the time. 04:49:26 well also white, i guess. 04:49:59 Do you know many languages she can speak? 04:50:04 one. 04:50:44 also she's part of a team office but i seem to be getting the same one these days. 04:51:53 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:03:46 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:03:55 Was Tailsteak a Christian during 1/0? 05:04:32 I mean, I sort of assumed so, but Leftover Soup keeps making me think he deconverted earlier than that, for some reason 05:04:51 Or... actually I guess I don't know his current beliefs, just that they're less Creationy 05:06:04 -!- L8D has joined. 05:10:41 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:13:04 hm Zefphex left 05:14:02 -!- oerjan has changed nick to Ore-sama. 05:14:30 after reading a bit in wikipedia, i have concluded this is clearly the right way to japanify my name hth 05:14:33 -!- Ore-sama has changed nick to oerjan. 05:16:02 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:20:16 I don't know what is "right way" but I make my name in Japanese in my own way; my given name with katakana and family name with kanji 05:21:39 when your father (iirc) changed his surname, did he keep the meaning? so they would be the same kanji... 05:22:16 my name has an ambiguous spelling and pronounciation in english. 05:22:31 -!- password2 has joined. 05:23:18 oerjan: Not as far as I know, but that was before I was born. 05:23:32 So I don't use my father's old surname. 05:23:44 hm 05:24:23 But the kanji I use might not be the intended meaning anyways; he has said the intended meaning might be "Blacksmith" instead of "Black"; whether or not this is true, I have always used the kanji for "black" before and therefore don't need to change it. 05:25:02 Is your surname Black? 05:25:19 Yes 05:25:36 I thought you know that already? 05:25:39 Yeah, that's probably "blacksmith". 05:25:40 No. 05:25:42 * oerjan is curious what it was before 05:25:50 just in case it's not obvious :P 05:26:01 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:26:10 Well, I am not going to tell you what it was before (just in case he doesn't want to tell you, I also won't) 05:26:25 'orin' or 'oren' or possibly 'warren' it was never clear to me during my childhood 05:26:31 pikhq: whoa, happy pikhq++ 05:26:45 CURSES FOILED AGAIN 05:26:54 shachaf: How long have you been waiting for that? 05:27:06 because it was /orən/ 05:27:10 <24 hours? 05:27:16 Noted. 05:27:26 I don't know, how long should I have been waiting? 05:27:48 Since March 24 2014. Of course. 05:28:09 Is there a standard way to katakana-ize an /ə/ 05:32:04 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 05:34:02 I don't know, but, you can try to either look at other same name see how it was done before, or you can make it up yourself in your own way since it is your own name anyways, or you can ask some people who are Japanese; see there is three possibility 05:40:24 Hmm, looks like オリン or オーリン (since my name has stress on the O) would some closes 05:40:44 -!- shikhin has joined. 05:41:41 Ourin-senpai: never refer to yourself with an honourifig 05:41:43 *honourific 05:42:03 my last name has a well known standard transliteration of ワトソン 05:42:18 -!- Ourin-senpai has changed nick to o-rin. 05:42:22 also I was discussing with a friend, my name is probably シャンハウテ, though there may be more standard transliterations 05:42:33 Mine has a well known but somewhat weird transliteration of "uusuta". 05:42:57 hmm 05:43:30 apparently "Sean" is actually transliterated as ショーン 05:43:52 I meant to put a long vowel in before, but I'm intrigued that o was preferred to a 05:44:17 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:44:33 aw is closer to o than a 05:44:39 I imagine my name is more difficult to transliterate into Japanese than into English. 05:44:42 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 05:45:05 Likely. 05:45:15 Japanese has a real lack of phonemes. 05:45:18 yeah 05:46:35 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:48:08 well, for final consonants they seem to add -u sylable, except for t and d which for some reason become "to" and "do" 05:48:42 luckily my name has only final n in it 05:48:51 the reason -u usually gets added is because when it appears word-final it is often devoiced 05:48:57 which makes it almost inaudible 05:49:36 but sometimes that sounds bad or awkward, or due to the pitch used you can't devoice, so you get the o instead 05:49:37 oh, you couldn't use tu or du because there isn't them 05:49:56 oh right that tooo 05:49:58 *too 05:52:05 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:53:11 オーリン・ワトソン yeah that should be sufficient 05:53:47 yay 10000 SO rep 05:55:45 omedetou 05:56:51 I wonder if that looks good on a resume 06:00:16 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:00:41 -!- ^v has joined. 06:03:58 I have seen IE do things properrly that other browsers get wrong 06:04:14 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Bye). 06:04:16 -!- tromp_ has joined. 06:04:16 It is certainly possible 06:04:17 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:04:23 Although IE does some things wrong too 06:05:33 -!- _AndoDaan has joined. 06:06:34 -!- _AndoDaan has changed nick to AndoDaan. 06:08:24 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:22:07 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:25:47 I was making a pair of duel deck of Magic: the Gathering for Human Supremacy Corporation vs Unhuman Alliance. I put a few unofficial cards (including the one called "Human Supremacy Corporation"). Also probably is not finish yet 06:31:03 What does that card do? 06:33:06 Any player can cause 1 damage to each non-Human creature. 06:33:24 To be more specific it is: 06:33:48 Human Supremacy Corporation {WWBB} Legendary Enchantment :: At the beginning of each upkeep, ~ deals 1 damage to each untapped non-Human creature. :: {4}, Discard a card: Deals 1 damage to target non-Human creature. Any player may activate this ability. 06:36:30 o-rin: arigato 06:44:17 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 06:44:39 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:44:48 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 06:48:13 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 06:50:04 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:50:08 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 06:50:51 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 06:51:07 If you have other suggest to add a card I can do that too; I don't know all of the official cards 06:53:19 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 06:55:52 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:56:00 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 06:56:31 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:58:18 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 07:00:50 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:00:57 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 07:03:05 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 07:05:38 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:05:45 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 07:08:05 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 07:10:18 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:10:29 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 07:14:14 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 07:15:23 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:15:25 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 07:19:22 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 07:19:45 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:19:51 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 07:22:05 o-rin: you should play riichi with me 07:24:12 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 07:24:30 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:24:44 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 07:29:20 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 07:31:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:31:54 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:32:00 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 07:35:02 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 07:36:56 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:36:57 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 07:38:37 where do I play it 07:40:08 tenhou, but you probably should learn first 07:40:14 it's not really easy to learn and all the guides suck 07:41:10 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 07:41:38 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:41:47 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 07:48:03 -!- L8D has joined. 07:52:53 AAAAAAAAA 07:53:10 the TA's are still on strike 07:53:19 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:53:25 my work is NEVER going to be marked!!! 07:55:19 they rejected the deal with the university AGAIN 08:00:41 AAAAAAA I handed in my neural network that recognizes handwritten numbers 3 weeks ago!!! 08:01:08 wtf o_o 08:01:27 show it please? 08:01:33 sure 08:02:31 .... actually I'd better not, they said they'd accept late submissions and they'd think I cheated 08:03:01 hmm I'll take a screenshot 08:04:26 -!- tromp_ has joined. 08:06:43 http://ctrlv.in/522625 <-- early training 08:07:55 http://ctrlv.in/522626 <-- late in training. the 8 gets 1 and the other digits get 0 signal... hell yeah 08:08:56 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:09:04 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:10:41 http://ctrlv.in/522630 one more screenshot. howzat? 08:12:36 It's interesting just how well a neural network works for these tasks 08:35:15 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 08:37:40 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 08:40:36 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:53:17 I wonder how many terabytes of models have been created for the MNIST digits to date. 09:05:11 if everyone in my class did it, then at least a gig right there 09:06:05 -!- tromp_ has joined. 09:06:11 some people have been slacking because they expect the strike to go on till end of term 09:07:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:10:14 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:23:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:24:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:25:27 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:30:13 -!- fungot has quit (K-Lined). 09:30:13 -!- zemhill_ has quit (K-Lined). 09:32:48 -!- zemhill_ has joined. 09:41:22 -!- Naprecks has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:51:44 -!- Naprecks has joined. 09:59:14 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 10:00:14 -!- iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit))))))))). 10:02:27 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:03:20 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 10:09:39 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:10:43 -!- slereah has joined. 10:10:47 Hey hey 10:10:49 Been a whilee 10:16:13 -!- boily has joined. 10:16:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:24:13 How long is a while'e? 10:25:31 It is that Pixar movie 10:25:34 About the robot 10:25:37 And the trash 10:26:10 Wall-e or summat. 10:26:20 same diff 10:33:05 -!- pizearke has joined. 10:33:17 my people 10:34:55 LET MY PEOPLE GO 10:35:28 Let It Go. 10:35:37 I was a big combinatory logic enthusiast a few years back 10:35:56 now I'm a musician and I thought I'd get in touch with my old self by doing some music programming :3 10:36:08 Combinatory logic is quite neat 10:36:21 Also probably one of the oldest Turing complete system 10:36:30 I was really fascinated with how much you could do with just s and k 10:36:33 Older than the Turing machine and lambda calculus! 10:36:44 Possibly older than -recursive functions? 10:36:46 combinatory logic is pretty much just lambda anyway 10:37:03 Yet older than it! 10:37:09 it is? 10:37:15 Yep 10:37:17 1920's 10:37:17 til 10:37:23 I thought it was like 50's 10:37:23 From an old logic paper 10:37:34 Nobody really cared about it back then 10:37:50 But the Schonfinkel paper is from like... 24? 10:37:55 oh 10:37:59 that's the name I know 10:38:02 There's http://p-nand-q.com/programming/languages/gplz/gertrude.html and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Velato for musical esolangs. 10:38:13 I'm making my own, thank you 10:38:27 I'm sure those are awesome though 10:39:05 "The original inventor of combinatory logic, Moses Schnfinkel, published nothing on combinatory logic after his original 1924 paper. Haskell Curry rediscovered the combinators while working as an instructor at Princeton University in late 1927.[3] In the latter 1930s, Alonzo Church and his students at Princeton invented a rival formalism for functional abstraction, the lambda calculus, which proved more popular than combinatory logic. " 10:39:07 Goddamn 10:39:09 Not as awesome as the potential one you're working on. 10:39:13 It was invented TWICE before lambda calculus 10:40:13 I had no idea haskell curry was from the 20's :O 10:40:40 the one I'm working on looks more like assembly 10:41:41 I wrote down some ideas for what the instructions would be and it came out to exactly 16 different instructions 10:41:46 and I was like "shiiiit" 10:54:52 -!- tromp_ has joined. 10:59:26 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:03:44 it is a good number 11:03:58 Although 11:04:05 I guess it depends on their arguments 11:04:12 yeah it's hard to work with just a nibble 11:04:20 because some of them don't have operators 11:04:42 Do you mean operands 11:04:50 yeah I'm an idiot 11:04:53 sorry 11:05:03 also I'm really rusty right now 11:06:11 I think some of them not having operands wouldn't be a problem if they were byte instructions 11:06:14 but they're nibbles 11:13:43 Pad them to a byte? 11:14:03 I guess it depends how many different operands the ones with an argument need 11:18:18 @massages-loud 11:18:18 oerjan said 14h 15m 24s ago: avocabulant isn't a word hth 11:18:18 oerjan said 13h 53m 18s ago: you are right i'm more evil than elliott hth 11:18:33 @tell oerjan I know. 11:18:33 Consider it noted. 11:18:38 @tell orejan I know. 11:18:38 Consider it noted. 11:18:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INAUDIBLE CHICKEN). 11:19:03 Avocabulant is a perfectly cromulant word 11:20:26 the ones with an operand all only have one 11:20:57 Well if you only have 16 different values for each operand max, that would work out nicely 11:21:16 I have some bad news for you 11:21:22 I need more bits than that amigo 11:21:24 I need more bits 11:21:28 Otherwise either pad to a byte or make variable length instructions 11:21:44 I'm not doing variable length instructions 11:21:50 Pad that shit then 11:21:54 that's too inefficient with nibbled 11:21:57 Pad like the wind 11:22:21 That way you can add even more instructions if you feel like it! 11:22:37 that's a really fair point 11:22:42 I never even thought of that 11:22:56 I'm going to make an end of file character, too 11:23:11 Maybe a set of instructions that are the same, except this time it's beatboxing??? 11:23:17 (Since it is musical) 11:23:24 it outputs music 11:23:38 but one time I tried making a spoken language that was entirely beatboxing 11:23:42 Is it Turing complete music 11:23:52 the music itself? no 11:24:04 it's not even music. more like just sound 11:24:18 but complex sound 11:24:58 do you want to hear what I have so far? 11:25:13 it's not very good, but it's interesting 11:25:26 Currently at work 11:25:38 aight 11:30:21 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:33:54 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 11:35:36 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 11:36:39 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:40:58 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 11:41:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:44:13 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:51:46 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:05:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:37:23 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:44:02 -!- tromp_ has joined. 12:48:37 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:01:45 -!- heroux has joined. 13:05:16 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:12:47 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 13:14:43 -!- L8D has joined. 13:15:51 [wiki] [[Talk:MGIFOS]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42172&oldid=31604 * SuperJedi224 * (+485) 13:19:02 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:19:58 [wiki] [[Talk:MGIFOS]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42173&oldid=42172 * SuperJedi224 * (+13) 13:20:19 [wiki] [[Talk:MGIFOS]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42174&oldid=42173 * SuperJedi224 * (-20) 13:46:10 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:03:27 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:15:14 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:15:48 -!- ^v has joined. 14:17:16 -!- lleu has joined. 14:29:24 [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42175&oldid=42168 * Ypnypn * (+0) 14:44:27 -!- not^v has joined. 14:50:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:50:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:06:55 [wiki] [[Clip]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42176&oldid=42175 * Ypnypn * (+1) 15:35:48 -!- paul2520 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:45:44 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 15:53:47 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:07:48 -!- TieSleep has changed nick to TieSoul. 16:07:57 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:09:49 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:11:24 o-rin: I've heard Japanese people say "ka" using exactly the same vowel I use in the word "Sean". 16:11:31 But that's because I have a weird accent. 16:15:06 what vowel do you use in sean... 16:15:33 like is it the same vowel as in 'sawn'? 16:16:31 -!- not^v has joined. 16:19:01 @metar LOWI 16:19:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:19:01 LOWI 231550Z 07010KT 9999 FEW060 15/03 Q1010 R08/1///95 NOSIG 16:29:34 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:42:10 -!- dianne has joined. 16:42:29 tswett: that's some dope accent dawg 16:47:43 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 16:48:18 -!- dianne has joined. 16:51:11 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:51:42 -!- L8D has joined. 16:56:36 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:59:55 -!- slereah has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:05:57 @metar CYYZ 17:05:57 CYYZ 231700Z 36007KT 330V060 15SM SCT230 M06/M19 A3039 RMK CI4 SLP300 17:06:46 clear and cold, my favorite weather 17:06:54 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:06:55 o-rin: wait, you're in YYZ? 17:07:02 yep 17:08:00 huh 17:08:41 my sleep schedule is out of whack 17:12:11 -!- GeekDude has joined. 17:20:08 @metar EGNT 17:20:09 EGNT 231650Z 28008KT 9999 SCT040 10/02 Q1010 17:20:49 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:25:10 -!- pizearke has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 17:28:07 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:29:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:29:49 -!- pizearke has joined. 17:41:14 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 17:42:44 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:42:47 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 18:19:12 -!- pizearke1 has joined. 18:21:34 -!- pizearke has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:22:34 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:23:03 -!- not^v has joined. 18:28:32 -!- pizearke has joined. 18:29:59 -!- pizearke1 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:32:41 -!- zadock has joined. 18:34:44 -!- v^v^ has joined. 18:36:11 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:42:51 -!- o-rin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:59:44 -!- o-rin has joined. 19:02:06 -!- mtve- has quit (*.net *.split). 19:02:13 -!- TieSoul has quit (*.net *.split). 19:02:14 -!- j-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 19:02:15 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 19:02:34 -!- TieSoul has joined. 19:02:39 -!- mtve has joined. 19:06:47 -!- lambdabot has joined. 19:07:26 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kasran * New user account 19:08:49 -!- o-rin has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 19:17:36 -!- pizearke has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:20:12 [wiki] [[Befunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42177&oldid=41933 * Kasran * (+67) /* Quine */ added a short quine 19:23:48 [wiki] [[Befunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42178&oldid=42177 * Kasran * (+121) /* Examples */ added a ROT13 encoder/decoder 19:24:37 -!- pizearke has joined. 19:29:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:31:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:33:01 -!- g2watson has joined. 19:33:28 -!- g2watson has quit (Client Quit). 19:34:16 -!- g2watson has joined. 19:35:55 is there a better terminal program for windows than putty? 19:37:11 hmm, maybe wrong thing... um, a better ssh program. 19:38:31 -!- v^v^ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:43:04 g2watson: KiTTY? http://www.9bis.net/kitty/ 19:43:53 I think everything else depends on cygwin or msys, but then you've got your choice :D 19:43:53 -!- j-bot has joined. 19:44:21 -!- pizearke has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:44:48 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:45:04 -!- TieSoul has joined. 19:46:09 -!- v^v^ has joined. 19:46:56 PuTTY is pretty good but you could use, like, Cygwin + urxvt + ssh. 19:49:40 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:54:57 -!- v^v^ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:56:47 -!- pizearke1 has joined. 19:58:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:06:56 -!- pizearke1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:14:29 -!- L8D has joined. 20:16:05 Phantom_Hoover: yeah, same one. Sean, lawn, prawn, dog, fog, wash, floss, broth. 20:16:36 But not clock, mock, pop, blotch, fossil, ocelot. 20:19:31 -!- newsham has quit (Quit: maint). 20:20:08 tswett: weird, I rhyme all those words, but with a sound much closer to typical Japanese o than a 20:20:53 how does the sound in dog differ from pop? 20:22:29 By being back instead of front. 20:22:44 for me they are all back 20:23:05 I think that's the case for, like, at least 90% of English speakers in any given country. 20:23:10 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:23:20 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:24:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:27:56 -!- newsham has joined. 20:31:07 hmm, my dialect of english has a total of only 13 vowels... 20:32:19 bat bate bet beet bit bite bot boat but beaut boot book bird 20:33:15 hmm no wait beaut is sort of like ee + oo 20:33:35 so 12 20:39:55 wikipedia claims that among palm lot cloth and thought, I should pronounce some differnetly, but I don't 20:43:13 bite is like but + beet 20:44:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:44:57 Maybe counting vowels is actually harder than counting the possible vowel sequences 20:46:37 palm lot cloth and thought still all have the same vowel, I don't get thet 20:49:15 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:53:39 I have some book about philosophy, including mirror problem, thinking about Santa Claus, box of answering question in Chinese (even though the people who work there don't know any Chinese), free beer for ten cents, free will, interpretation of laws, etc 20:55:32 zzo38: I have some book about some of those things too. 20:56:31 I have a least 3 books about those things, but I dodn't read it 20:57:05 crap my name is worng again 20:57:15 -!- g2watson has changed nick to orin. 20:59:06 Why do you make your name always wrong again? 20:59:11 why does irssi use your local username as default nick 20:59:23 I don't know why? 20:59:24 are you sure you're not a kasha 21:00:03 Also mention rules for shadows. They list two rules of shadows which they call so obviously correct, but to me both rules look to be so obviously wrong 21:00:44 What are the rules? 21:00:46 elliott: a boild buckwheat? 21:01:07 it's just another rin joke. 21:01:12 oh 21:01:20 but yes, sure, boiled buckwheat 21:01:23 seems like a good insult 21:02:42 'g2watson' means "CS specialist program account for mr. Watson" 21:03:07 Rules give are: The shadow doesn't cast if the light isn't shining on the object, and the shadow doesn't cast if there is another object in between for casting the shadow on instead. 21:03:21 To me, both are clearly wrong, although to them they are both clearly correct. 21:03:52 shadows don't exist 21:04:51 light shining around edge of object exists, shadow is perception of shape based on lack of light 21:06:56 but what is the problem for them with their rules? 21:07:59 They do cite a problem, although it was wrong to me even before that. The problem they cite is in case you hold coffee in front of you, one piece of the shape of shadow is shape of you but is through the coffee. Who casts the shadow? 21:08:17 I say both! 21:08:24 -!- augur_ has joined. 21:09:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:11:12 well the light that would hit the ground if you weren't there, that light would need to pass thorugh both you and the coffee, so yeah 21:13:47 but then it seems kind of pointless to say that a lack of light belongs to a particular object, i mean it is,um, a nonexistent thing by definition 21:20:12 -!- paul2520 has joined. 21:20:36 -!- paul2520 has changed nick to Guest58347. 21:21:54 -!- Guest58347 has changed nick to paul2520. 21:22:24 -!- paul2520 has changed nick to Guest65036. 21:22:53 -!- Guest65036 has changed nick to paul2520. 21:23:14 -!- paul2520 has quit (Changing host). 21:23:14 -!- paul2520 has joined. 21:25:39 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:34:37 A thing: http://dominic-mulligan.co.uk/?page_id=148 21:36:21 are you going? 21:39:29 Probably not. I just got an email (on some list), and it sounded mildly relevant here. 21:40:50 ...is there a North of England Regional Programming Language Seminar? 21:41:13 how about a Midwestern United States Regional PLS? 21:42:39 I'd love to go to that, but like most of the south of England is difficult for someone like me who flits between Northumberland and York 21:43:21 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:57:02 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 21:59:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:59:06 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 22:01:53 -!- zadock has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:03:34 [wiki] [[Befunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42179&oldid=42178 * Kasran * (-188) removed programs I added earlier, as they will probably crash or not work right in CCBI 22:11:40 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 22:13:34 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:13:35 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 22:16:42 Happy pikhqday 22:16:56 A day of high quality pik 22:18:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:18:31 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:28:52 Truth. 22:28:59 The pik is the highest of q. 22:29:16 * pikhq shall attempt not to asplode 22:34:48 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host). 22:34:48 -!- GeekDude has joined. 22:36:35 -!- newsham has quit (Quit: maint). 22:42:28 -!- newsham has joined. 22:42:57 -!- newsham has quit (Client Quit). 22:43:16 -!- newsham has joined. 22:46:09 -!- newsham has quit (Client Quit). 22:46:30 -!- newsham has joined. 22:46:48 -!- newsham has quit (Client Quit). 22:47:23 -!- newsham has joined. 22:48:32 -!- Lymia has joined. 23:01:22 -!- Zefphex has joined. 23:06:33 I dare you to tell me the plot of a video game you've never played before. by the the cd on a microscope and the the pits 23:07:03 ? 23:07:03 by viewing the cd* 23:07:03 -!- shachaf has left. 23:07:11 oh, I see 23:07:22 reading* 23:07:25 I know a lot of the plots of video games I've never played, but that's mostly via watching other people play them 23:07:36 same 23:08:06 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:12:38 Oh man if only I wasn't a fragmentation of someone's mental state because they know how to program and I just feel dumb being here 23:14:34 -!- zadock has joined. 23:14:36 you could fix that by learning to program, perhaps? 23:14:45 pick a language that nobody else can program in either 23:14:47 so that nobody has a head start 23:22:38 I'm only good at art 23:23:46 -!- L8D has joined. 23:26:33 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 23:40:56 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 23:44:05 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:44:39 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 23:46:18 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:50:49 -!- tromp_ has joined. 23:56:08 -!- Zefphex has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2015-03-24: 00:01:58 -!- L8D has joined. 00:02:11 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:06:54 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:07:38 -!- elliott has joined. 00:08:02 -!- elliott has changed nick to Guest69134. 00:11:39 -!- ^v has joined. 00:26:06 -!- boily has joined. 00:29:05 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 00:33:33 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:35:14 -!- hjulle has joined. 00:36:30 @massages-loud 00:36:30 You don't have any messages 00:44:25 helloily 00:48:02 ProofTechellonique! 00:51:57 -!- Andodaan has joined. 00:52:11 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:04:57 -!- iamevn has joined. 01:06:24 -!- Kasran has joined. 01:10:01 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 01:10:28 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:11:07 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 01:13:58 [wiki] [[User:Kasran]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42180 * Kasran * (+71) hello! 01:27:18 god dammit. these ads on youtube music videos that are, themselves, music videos 01:28:56 bonus points if two music videos have each other as ads? 01:29:00 * boily hands some AdBlock potions to orin 01:29:14 hellorin. aren't you oren usually? 01:29:17 or, hmm 01:29:34 hellæis523! 01:29:34 I assume some people archive ads on YouTube 01:29:49 perhaps some day someone will have the ad for a video be the same as the video itself 01:30:21 boily: yah, my passport says "oren" but sometimes I spell it other ways 01:30:32 The realization is that the encapsulating music video is really an ad. 01:31:29 I would'nt mind so much if the two musics were the same genre 01:32:19 chiptune demo video opening with bruno mars' new single 01:32:21 which shawn mendes and BABYMETAL are not, at all 01:32:23 my passport doesn't say "ais523" :-( 01:32:24 haha 01:32:53 my has a boily in there ^^ 01:32:54 Why not use an ad blocker? 01:33:24 orin: the only way to get babymetal out of my mind is some heavy touhou remixes. 01:35:34 like Crow's Claw? 01:35:36 adadadadadada dokkyu! zokkyu dokkyu zokkyu dokkyu yada yada yada neva neva neva! 01:36:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:36:26 * boily mapoles orin with a swift swing 01:36:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:37:19 Kasran: IOSYS usually does the job for me, but I do enjoy some Alstroemeria. what are your favourite circles? 01:39:08 shinra bansho, hatunetu-miko's, IRON ATTACK! 01:39:26 I'm not super into Touhou music, so I'm not sure I'd be able to pick out any favorites. I do like what I've heard from Crow's Claw, though. 01:39:32 bleh 01:40:02 orin: heh! listening to hatsunetsu at this moment right now :D ♪ 01:40:16 Kasran: bleh? 01:40:37 Kasran: you should try Demetori, particularly their later albums. some epic rocking in them. 01:41:24 bleh!!!! And alright, I'll take a look, thanks. 01:42:16 I also like anything from Odyssey Music/T. Stebbins/Eurobeat Brony/ whatever other pseudonyms he has 01:43:06 who is he/she/it? 01:43:45 An amazing male vocalist who does songs in a whole bunch of fandoms 01:44:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LpGkyR3hfI 01:44:15 -!- Guest69134 has changed nick to elliott. 01:44:18 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host). 01:44:18 -!- elliott has joined. 01:48:17 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:51:12 Apparently he is also named Ken Blast and also mortimer Mortimer 01:52:01 -!- oren has joined. 01:52:25 -!- orin has quit (Quit: ssh to uoft is slowing up). 01:53:33 Is the first mortimer lowercase like that? 01:53:44 Aesthetic! 01:53:56 no that was a result of a slow connection 01:54:48 by convention Eurobeat song and artist names are limited to numbers and uppercase letters. No idea why 01:57:33 A typical song listing is of the form "PRETTY GIRL ROCK / SPEEDMASTER feat CINDY" 01:58:54 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ARTICULATED CHICKEN). 02:02:01 `? oren 02:02:03 oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. 02:02:08 lol 02:02:28 hes asleep already 02:21:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:28:20 -!- adu_ has joined. 02:40:20 I was reading something David Sirlin wrote recently, and now I can see that he even designed a Magic: the Gathering card. 02:45:07 MTG++ 02:45:59 -!- ais523 has quit. 02:46:03 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 02:46:04 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 02:46:16 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 02:46:16 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:00:36 -!- Lymia has joined. 03:26:02 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:29:03 -!- ^v has joined. 03:30:28 -!- Andodaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:47:16 Screw this crap. I'm making my own image editor 03:49:08 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:49:33 +1 03:49:33 lighter 03:49:58 oren: what is this crap? 03:50:06 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:51:06 -!- L8D has joined. 03:51:13 coppro: mtpaint 03:53:30 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:55:34 -!- augur has joined. 03:55:44 I'ma make a better one. with scripting. and whores 03:57:46 -!- ais523 has quit. 03:57:49 -!- ^v has joined. 03:58:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:58:52 specifically, I want to be able to select a quadrilateral out of the image and deform it into another quadrilateral 03:59:39 imagemagick? 04:00:36 oren: are they both parallelograms? 04:01:09 no 04:01:35 they are roughly trapezoids 04:04:43 affine translation might still work, on that data, but it's far from guaranteed 04:04:47 err, affine transformation 04:08:28 the way I'd do it is by taking the diagonals to anchor your coordinate system, and define the transformation in terms of that. Not sure if it's linear 04:10:14 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:10:39 -!- _AndoDaan has joined. 04:26:23 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:31:53 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 04:33:37 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:36:21 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:40:40 -!- iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit))))))))). 04:51:39 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 04:51:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:51:51 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 05:14:10 -!- bb010g has joined. 05:15:53 Image processing tools generally call that a "perspective" transformation. 05:16:57 assuming the trapezia are isoceles and the two parallel sides are horizontal, I've also seen it called "keystone" 05:18:30 http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/distorts/#perspective etc. 05:19:42 (I've only seen the "keystone" term in a projector context.) 05:20:06 haha, POSIX defines the syntax of yacc using a yacc grammar 05:20:16 thus leading to a standard in need of bootstrapping 05:20:57 YAELI: a language for which the syntax of yacc is an interpreter for that language, ideally in as non-contrived a way as possible 05:22:24 POSIX defines all of its syntax using a yacc grammar. 05:23:19 that doesn't make it any less of a circular definition 05:25:04 -!- Novtopro has joined. 05:27:01 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:27:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 05:30:53 -!- L8D has joined. 05:35:06 -!- ais523 has quit. 05:35:16 -!- ais523 has joined. 05:46:53 -!- Novtopro has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 06:01:45 -!- _AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:18:49 -!- Kasran has quit (Quit: Page closed). 06:24:20 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:29:02 -!- fractal has joined. 06:35:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:36:05 -!- adu_ has quit (Quit: adu_). 06:47:07 fizzie: fungot and zemhill got k-lined... 06:47:17 @messages- 06:47:17 boily said 19h 28m 43s ago: I know. 06:47:31 I'm going to assume that was in-context 06:47:40 but it's much less than a year, so no new record 06:48:09 ais523: what? 06:48:20 fizzie: fungot and zemhill got k-lined... I know 06:48:31 OKAY 06:48:38 `quote 1y 06:48:39 497) monqy: help how do I use lambdabot to send messages to people. [...around half an hour later...] @messages quicksilver said 1y 2m 18d 19h 54m 29s ago: you use @tell 06:48:46 and that's the previous record 06:49:02 and still the current record 06:49:07 right 06:50:14 >25 years without a cavity, and BAM! 5 in one year ;_; 06:50:36 have you changed diet? 06:50:39 and i have no one to blame but my shrinks 06:51:00 I'd better not give too much advice, though, or you might turn into Sgeo 06:51:02 and nobody wants that 06:51:27 ais523: more chocolate, less brushing teeth, pretty obvious cause really 06:51:52 I actually gave up chocolate accidentally in march last year (possibly even february) 06:51:54 and decided to just run with it 06:52:50 i started eating chocolate in the middle of the night because it seemed to help with my foot cramps... 06:53:17 but i had already done that a year ago, when the checkup was clean 06:53:38 well maybe not as much 06:54:42 also, i'm unlikely to become like Sgeo, my way is to ignore all advice completely hth 06:58:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:59:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:07:46 `unidecode � 07:07:55 ​[U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] 07:08:26 someone didn't have unicode set up properly 07:11:37 `unidecode 𝍐 07:11:38 ​[U+1D350 TETRAGRAM FOR FAILURE] 07:12:31 pretty much the same thing, there 07:12:59 -!- vodkode__ has joined. 07:13:17 -!- vodkode__ has quit (Client Quit). 07:13:41 oh wait it's not supposed to look the same 07:13:53 pretty much a failure, then. 07:14:49 -!- _AndoDaan has joined. 07:20:42 `unidecode 負 07:20:43 ​[U+8CA0 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-8CA0] 07:21:29 see this is stupid. why does the tetragram have its iching meaning in it but the kanji has a stupid hex number 07:22:00 i've been assuming it's because the kanji's meaning might depend on language 07:22:30 not to such an extent... 07:22:56 i guess it's because they hate humans, then 07:23:52 damned racists 07:24:15 technically that's speciesist hth 07:24:31 The human species 07:40:58 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:43:25 why does irssi use your local username as default nick <-- because you haven't saved your nick setting? 07:44:05 actually i think that's part of the server setting 07:44:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:45:37 hm nick isn't listed as an argument on permanent servers 07:48:40 well it's in .irssi/config, anyway 08:09:32 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:09:40 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:12:22 -!- _AndoDaan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:15:05 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 08:35:20 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:55:07 [wiki] [[Brainloller]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42181&oldid=32144 * 212.13.18.233 * (+108) Added php implementation on github 08:59:45 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:21:52 aren't you tired of those stupid console programs that don't have a line editing library? 09:22:19 and you press the arrows and get ^[[A ^[[B 09:23:40 well, fear no more! https://github.com/izabera/bin/blob/master/rrlwrap 09:24:41 now you can just run rrlwrap otherprogram and the power of readline will be yours 09:28:23 izabera: how does that differ featurewise from ledit, another program that does the same thing? 09:28:39 first of all, the author is much sexier 09:29:13 second, the author didn't know ledit 09:29:37 the author did know rlwrap but it was a fun experiment anyway 09:29:37 author sexiness has never been a reason to choose between programs 09:29:44 otoh, the author of ledit didn't know of rrlwrap either 09:29:46 it always has 09:29:49 so that condition's kind-of a wash 09:31:03 this has the added bonus of being less than 100 lines long \o/ 09:31:03 | 09:31:04 /^\ 09:31:19 \o/ 09:31:19 | 09:31:19 /`\ 09:31:24 that's one useful bot 09:31:30 it's not entirely a bot 09:31:36 it's a human and bot using the same account 09:31:40 ooh myndzi is working properly again 09:31:42 which can get confusing when they're both speaking 09:32:14 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:34:15 third reason: this is the only important part of my code and it works on its own 09:34:17 while read -re; do 09:34:19 history -p -- "$REPLY" 09:34:21 history -s -- "$REPLY" 09:34:23 done | "$@" 09:34:48 what?!?!?! 4 lines!?!?!? 09:34:53 yes. 4 lines. 09:35:04 it's written in shellscript? 09:35:08 yes \o/ 09:35:08 | 09:35:08 /| 09:35:13 of ffs 09:35:31 \o 09:35:33 o/ 09:37:38 i'd ^celebrate but someone killed fungot 09:38:30 why would fungot be klined? 09:38:40 _and_ zemhill 09:39:06 well I assume they're on the same connection 09:39:08 so that makes more sense 09:46:21 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 09:52:41 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:11:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:13:05 -!- boily has joined. 10:21:52 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 10:43:24 Huh. 10:43:31 And yes, they're connecting from the same place. 10:44:15 "You are banned from this server- Spam is not allowed on freenode. Please contact kline@freenode.net if you think this kline has been set in error." 10:45:38 -!- fungot has joined. 10:45:44 Well, it seems to have been temporary. 10:55:51 Maybe fungot needed to make some urgent international funds transfers. 10:55:51 Jafet: so what of it doesn't really work 10:56:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:58:40 fungot: stop bein sentient. 10:58:40 boily: yeah, i didn't know much 10:58:45 fungot: thanks. 10:58:45 boily: ' s if you can implement call/ cc k receiver) ( receiver ( lambda ( x) 10:59:00 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SCRATCH CHICKEN). 11:26:08 hehe 11:30:11 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:31:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:39:15 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:46:13 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:48:17 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:53:39 -!- mroman has joined. 11:53:50 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:33:01 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:02:12 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:12:50 -!- hjulle has joined. 13:33:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:38:57 `? fun fact 13:39:00 fun fact 0 = 1 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1) 13:40:57 that looks like Standard ML 13:42:07 That was my assumption 13:42:12 `? Ngevd 13:42:13 ​/j汣!ŕElDP3A5BJ.Uj%{c. ]4IӍjmVA0"SFDI1b}aVMd[⁉9.VfAp(/#ͷJcXlzՈɊe:;qn \ ȪJo](*BE}Io,;Hy_X@;sݿ!urnk!00`ZD(T⩟ЧCO_J0ۻ 13:43:30 One day I am going to be all boring and switch to the three-letter nick I have registered that is just my initials 13:45:37 `rot13 taneb ngevd 13:45:38 gnaro atriq 13:45:49 triq-y 13:46:13 I am kind of glad all 4 of those are vaguely pronouncable 13:46:47 Leading ŋ is kinda tricky to pronounce 13:47:00 `rot13 firefly effilry 13:47:01 sversyl rssvyel 13:47:28 FireFly, I manage it somehow 13:47:52 `rot13 ygodypt 13:47:53 ltbqlcg 13:48:09 that's terrible. 13:48:50 fungot, how can a video encoder use two gigabytes of memory? 13:48:50 b_jonas: ( inherently)? because i don't know 13:48:55 hah! 13:49:04 :D 13:49:09 ^style 13:49:09 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 13:49:16 fungot isn't infallible 13:49:16 b_jonas: well it tastes bad. they should know better then the movie list two friends of mine and i are in completely different places in the template to be nothing in the rules 13:49:58 I know someone who runs a fungot-like channel-regular imitation bot in another channel 13:49:58 Taneb: it's not my fault, i believe.) hmm... long digression, guys!". 13:52:31 Does USD form a module over the ring of 100ths of integers? 13:53:13 And thus exchange rates form a homomorphism! 13:54:31 Sort of 14:12:34 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:19:29 -!- zadock has joined. 15:00:07 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 15:28:53 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 15:57:59 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:17:04 dhvagbcvn 16:19:21 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:20:46 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:33:46 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 16:40:25 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:52:45 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 16:55:42 anybody working on an interesting esolang? 16:55:55 that... uhm.. has functions and some way of #include? 16:56:07 or anybode worked on one? 16:56:13 preferably with an implementation available 16:58:39 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 17:02:47 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 17:02:47 -!- lleu has joined. 17:06:38 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:20:02 -!- dianne has joined. 17:35:25 -!- cpressey has joined. 17:37:33 so, one of things I've never liked about monads is that people are apt to talk about "THE list monad" as if there is only monad that could be sensibly applied to lists 17:37:46 but i think i just figured out why this happens 17:37:51 natural transformations 17:37:53 am i right? 17:38:23 *is only one monad 17:39:09 -!- g2watson has joined. 17:39:21 -!- g2watson has changed nick to orin. 17:42:55 i'd ask on #haskell but i half-expect to be talked down to, there 17:43:29 HI Phantom_Hoover HOW'S YOUR BLOG HOW'S BITCOIN 17:43:34 it's not true for every type 17:43:40 it is true for lists though 17:44:12 cpressey: wait 17:44:14 elliott: so it's just that "the X monad" is "the monad for X that seems to make the most sense to the most people"? 17:44:14 I can fix that. 17:44:47 there. fixed. 17:45:04 er thanks mroman 17:45:10 cpressey: there is only one list monad 17:45:14 :) 17:45:16 now 17:45:26 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 17:45:28 what are the other list monads :D? 17:45:45 cpressey: but generally "the X monad" is going to mean the monad that X actually has an instance for, so yeah. 17:46:08 cpressey: or, well. 17:46:17 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:46:18 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 17:46:36 cpressey: okay, let's put it this way: "the State monad" doesn't mean "the monad that State is", "State" there implicitly carries the semantics we associate with it 17:46:39 rather than just the type itself 17:47:05 cpressey: just like "the ring " in mathematics 17:47:29 cpressey, no idea on either front 17:47:39 i apologize for not knowing that the list object only has one possible monad (if that's true) 17:48:46 is a monad a mathematical thing 17:49:17 no 17:49:41 it's a concept taken from the academic study of the austro-hungarian empire's administrative structure 17:50:32 cpressey: the haskell-guys seem to have that opinion that you can't define another monad, yes. 17:50:39 I'm just asking which link to click on wikipedia's biguation page? 17:50:48 not even a trivial one? 17:50:51 or, whatstheword 17:51:12 longerwordthatbasicallymeanstrivial 17:52:02 sre we talking about "Monad (category theory)" or "Monad (functional programming)" 17:52:08 what's the trivial monad for an arbitrary type? 17:52:23 orin, they're the same thing 17:52:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:52:37 "pathological" except with the connotation of also trivial 17:52:58 anyway n/m question about general usage of word answered thank you very much 17:53:42 cpressey, degenerate? 17:53:49 Phantom_Hoover: BING thank you 17:53:57 cpressey: hi thanks to a dmm comic i realized what chrysoberyl means :P 17:54:01 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 17:54:23 Phantom_Hoover: oh, there is also a word you used years ago that i've been meaning to ask you about (but now i have the channel logs so i can probably find it by grepping) 17:54:28 (davd morgan-mar) 17:54:33 *+i 17:54:51 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:55:46 so, there are no degenerate list monads? the usual one is unique? 17:56:08 what would a degenerate list monad be? 17:56:16 Maybe could count as one... 17:56:23 oerjan: i feel like such a nerd since i learned it through, um, gemology 17:56:45 rather than a webcomic 17:57:33 well i _actually_ learned it from wikipedia's article, but the comic pointed me there 17:58:55 hm i wonder if... 17:59:10 hi chris. 'sbeen a while. anything new for us? 17:59:47 quintopia: hi 17:59:50 um 17:59:52 what's new 18:00:01 .... no. 18:00:10 -!- zadock has joined. 18:00:32 cpressey: i am not sure whether the usual Monad is the only possible one for [] but i wouldn't be extremely surprised. maybe something that permutes elements could also work, but that wouldn't be "degenerate" as such 18:01:02 doesn't have to be strictly "degenerate" or any other adjective; just has to exist 18:01:33 to distinguish "the usual list monad" vs "the unique list monad" which is (apparently) what i care about 18:01:42 today 18:01:46 quintopia: ^^^ that's new 18:02:02 but i dont understand it myself 18:03:54 the fact that the ZipList Applicative cannot be extended to a Monad is a bit subtle, so to prove it even more generally... 18:06:31 It can if all lists are infinite, but then you're using different lists 18:06:50 yes, it also can if all lists have the same length 18:06:57 or well 18:07:05 then you use a different return 18:10:16 "is the list monad unique" doesn't seem to give any sensible google hits 18:11:23 ^celebrate 18:11:23 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 18:11:24 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 18:11:24 /< c.c >\ /< | | >\ c.c /| | /< |/^\ c.c /| 18:11:24 /`\ (_|¯`¯|_) 18:11:24 (_| |_) 18:12:05 (belated demonstration) 18:15:25 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:16:24 Does USD form a module over the ring of 100ths of integers? <-- 100ths of integers isn't closed under multiplication 18:19:05 it is true for lists though <-- is there a proof around? 18:19:25 it would of course give the ZipList thing as a corollary 18:20:37 well probably not 18:20:53 I just believe it anyway 18:21:33 btw the State s monad mentioned is one example where it's definitely not unique: the type is isomorphic to ReaderT s (Writer s) which has a completely different instance 18:21:36 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:22:38 (also WriterT s (Reader s), although i think those two _are_ isomorphic. 18:22:40 ) 18:22:48 oh and s must be a Monoid. 18:23:05 @unmtl WriterT s (Reader s) 18:23:05 Plugin `unmtl' failed with: `WriterT s (Reader s)' is not applied to enough arguments, giving `/\A. (Reader s) (A, s)' 18:23:13 @unmtl WriterT s (Reader s) a 18:23:13 (Reader s) (a, s) 18:23:19 wat 18:23:51 @unmtl ReaderT s (Writer s) a 18:23:51 s -> (Writer s) a 18:24:14 am i doing something wrong or doesn't it know about those 18:24:22 @unmtl Writer s a 18:24:22 (a, s) 18:25:00 @@ @unmtl @unmtl WriterT s (Reader s) a 18:25:00 (Reader s) (a, s) 18:25:01 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:25:25 ಠ_ಠ 18:25:26 ¯|¯⌠ 18:25:26 /`\| 18:25:31 looks like it doesn't know that (a b) c is a b c 18:26:07 so what's holding up ghc-7.10.1 now? 18:26:31 is it post the deadline? 18:27:44 hm march 20 so yes 18:27:59 Yes, last Friday, I thought. 18:28:23 and all tickets are gone from https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Status/GHC-7.10.1 18:28:23 Anyway they're tweaking release notes, so there's some hope... 18:31:16 *although i think those two _are_ isomorphic as monads 18:35:29 did they fix your bug 18:36:00 oerjan: and yeah I know State wasn't unique in that sense 18:36:18 oerjan: though to be fair that requires Monoid s 18:36:20 the typeable kind bug has been fixed yes 18:36:32 there is probably no other monad *parametric* in s? 18:36:37 other than state 18:36:46 hm 18:36:55 Random question to anyone who knows: What is the best (quality/file size ratio) lossy audio format? mp3 or ogg? Or doesn't it matter as long as you use a good encoder and reasonable parameters? 18:36:55 or 18:37:00 maybe you can just pick the "right" one all the time 18:37:01 maybe not 18:37:08 no you'd still need s to have an element 18:37:23 Vorpal: opus 18:37:34 (successor of vorbis) 18:37:38 elliott, never heard of that, doubt the player on my phone supports that though 18:37:42 will try it I guess 18:37:44 probably rockbox or something does 18:37:48 other than that no 18:38:14 vorbis handles artifacts better than mp3, at least, so at low bitrate... 18:38:25 but probably LAME is so good that at the kind of bitrates you'd expect to use these days it doesn't matter 18:38:30 there's also AAC 18:38:33 elliott, hm I'm rather attached to PowerAmp, the library search and management aspect of it is unparalleled on phones (of what I tried so far) 18:38:39 which is strictly better than both mp3 and vorbis probably 18:38:46 (maybe?) 18:38:48 (I don't really know) 18:38:53 Hm 18:39:00 mp3 is fine unless you have really good speakers 18:39:17 just use anything it doesn't matter you won't hear any artifacts with reasonable settings 18:39:39 orin: actually mp3 is transparent no matter what speakers you have with a good encoder/settings and a not-totally-pathological sample 18:39:48 orin, well I have the music in flac currently, which is just a waste of space, so I need to convert it to something. Might as well go for the best one then. 18:39:57 (please feel free to publish ABX results contradicting this) 18:40:13 (please don't feel free to tell me lossless "just sounds better" without them) 18:40:53 elliott, the only reason to use lossless from what I understand if you need to process it (as you would in a studio after recording the music) 18:40:59 I don't have any music that isn't mp3 so I have no data. My father *claims* that vinyl is best 18:41:14 cpressey: hm i think i may have a very degenerate monad that works for _finite length_ lists. 18:41:50 your father either doesn't understand audio at all, or just likes the specific distortion and artifacts caused by vinyl 18:41:54 orin, I personally hate the typical vinyl sound, it doesn't sound as clear as a CD in general. Though since it is analogue it technically has more information. 18:42:00 (and in particular the evolving nature of them as you listen to a record over time) 18:42:03 which is fine 18:42:21 but you can capture any given play of a vinyl just fine in digital audio and play that back and it'll sound just as good 18:42:29 I think he just likes the music that came out in the days of vinyl 18:42:34 hah 18:42:43 oh, and vinyl sometimes has better mastering than CD releases 18:42:51 more dynamic range etc. 18:42:52 in which case it of course sounds a lot better 18:43:36 elliott: i think i know what you mean, vinyl records are quieter 18:43:45 elliott, I think the sheet music sounds superior to all of these 18:43:50 return x = [x]; [x] >>= f = f x; l >>= f | all ((==1).length) l' = concat l | otherwise = [] where l' = map f l 18:43:57 if you want a quick primer on digital audio in terms of how sampling and analogue vs. digital etc. works, https://www.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html is nice 18:44:11 elliott, no pesky acoustics getting in between you and the pure music 18:44:18 *concat l' 18:44:26 orin: yeah (not always. sometimes they just use the exact same master they were going to use for the CD and press it to vinyl. except it gets actually more distorted by the processing needed to be able to put it on vinyl) 18:45:04 really, most people are never even going to notice artifacts in an even 128 kbps MP3 encoded with a good version of LAME 18:45:17 I do like lossless audio but just because I'm obsessive, not because it is actually better for me in any way whatsoever. 18:45:20 elliott, why would they not add the most dynamic range they can? Seems stupid to not make use of the entire spectrum. And surely CD audio has enough dynamic range for anything... 18:45:41 Vorpal: well I can't summarise the loudness war in a single IRC line 18:45:45 Well anything non-pathological 18:45:47 because WE LIKE IT LOUD DUDURDUDUR 18:45:51 elliott, I thought that was just radio... 18:45:55 Not CDs 18:45:58 no, it affects CD mastering 18:45:59 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:46:08 Why? It makes little sense there 18:46:19 just read the wikipedia article or something >_> 18:46:25 Hm 18:46:35 I guess so 18:47:08 (it's also not 100% objectively terrible, really, it produces a certain sound. lots of compression is obviously wildly inappropriate for certain music, though.) 18:47:10 elliott, so, I'm probably going for lame, since I remember there was/is an issue with cover art in ogg using PowerAmp. 18:47:37 yeah 18:47:43 just use one of the --preset options and leave it at that 18:47:46 (the default should be just fine) 18:47:53 -!- heroux has joined. 18:48:23 elliott, I would like a feature to do compression up to a certain minimum level on the fly. That would be useful when feeding music into the car stereo while driving and you hit a quiet piece you can't hear about the engine. And when you turn it up and it gets to a loud section you suddenly can't hear the car engine instead 18:48:30 --preset medium if you want to save some space with most likely no perceptible loss of quality, --preset standard if you want some kind of stronger transparency guarantee 18:48:54 You said "good version" of lame 18:48:55 $ lame --version 18:48:55 LAME 64bits version 3.99.5 (http://lame.sf.net) 18:48:56 ? 18:49:04 Or should I try to update it 18:49:12 This is debian stable after all 18:49:56 Well Ubuntu 14.04 LTS has the same version. So screw it 18:50:00 "anything from the last decade" 18:50:24 Hah this is the last version 18:50:28 I just mean that in the Old Days mp3s actually did suck, because all the encoders did. 18:50:45 and you actually did need super-high bitrates to get reasonable results. 18:50:53 Wow, a package where debian stable has the current version 18:51:08 tbf that version was released over three years ago 18:51:12 elliott, is that why loudr still provides 320 kbps MP3 download... 18:51:18 LAME is one of those programs that is pretty much complete 18:51:31 Vorpal: no that's just because people want them 18:51:53 elliott, I would prefer VBR, bandcamp has that iirc, it is a bit smaller... 18:52:05 yeah but people see 320 and think "that's the maximum, it must be better". 18:52:16 loudr just provides 320, FLAC and apple lossless 18:52:41 right. that makes them look higher quality than saying "~190 kbps" and it's also simpler. 18:52:58 And I'm too lazy to convert to something sane (in which case you should probably start with lossless anyway?) 18:53:01 I usually get my music from youtube so my perceptions might be ... pedestrian 18:53:11 I mean, listening to music is a subjective psychological experience. so if people like their placebos, then cool. 18:53:24 I actually prefer bandcamp as a platform when the music is available there 18:53:31 Hah 18:53:32 Vorpal: I wouldn't transcode but you could probably do it without losing too much if you needed to save space 18:53:44 I usually can't tell the difference between a CD and the ipepd mp3 18:53:49 "too much" = "anything noticeable", I guess. I don't know how bad transcodes really are with decent source material and settings. 18:54:12 elliott, well, I have a 64 GB memory card in my phone, 17 GB of that is music, about 5 is various other stuff, and the rest is free 18:54:18 so I'm not quite hurting for space yet 18:54:54 elliott, also covert art embedding is really stupid. Because that will be the same across an album. And now you have 10+ copies of the same image 18:55:08 Vorpal: you can just put cover.jpg or album.jpg or whatever the names people use are in the same folder 18:55:12 that usually works? 18:55:12 elliott, On the other hand, cover.jpg files show up in the bloody album app on the phone 18:55:21 anyway the cover is going to be smaller than the audio data :P 18:55:46 elliott, sure, but this album has 1500x1500 png cover art embedded! 18:55:49 just reduce the cover art to 64x64 and put it in 18:55:51 Which is pretty stupid 18:56:19 orin, A bit more than that given the screen. I usually go for 500x500, that works well when blown up on the lock screen as well 18:57:00 But yes I have seen <10 MB music files with cover art of 2 MB 18:57:34 -!- Lymia has joined. 18:58:40 elliott, hm... 18:58:41 RECOMMENDED: 18:58:41 lame -V2 input.wav output.mp3 18:58:49 Not recommending --preset in --help? 18:59:18 I 18:59:33 Whaat... lame can't read flac? How annoying, oggenc can iirc 19:00:01 convert to wav first? 19:00:09 Well yes, but that is annoying. 19:00:21 find . -iname '*.flac' -print0 | xargs -0 -n1 -P4 lame -V2 has a certain beauty 19:00:31 Vorpal: -V2 is --preset standard 19:00:34 Ah 19:00:59 http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=LAME#Recommended_encoder_settings 19:01:07 I wonder how to convert to wav without touching ffmpeg (spending 10 hours reading man page) 19:01:17 sox maybe 19:01:32 tbh though I would just use one of the three presets in http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=LAME#Technical_information that aren't the 320 one 19:01:39 as in, V0, V2 or V4 19:02:02 I use avconv (ffmpeg's new name) for a lot of stuff 19:02:04 twiddling any more nobs than a -V switch is pointless and harmful, anyway 19:02:17 orin: that is a very flamewarry way of describing the ffmpeg/libav split :P 19:02:17 orin, avconv is not ffmpeg's new name. That is a fork and what not 19:02:22 (I think Debian is switching back to ffmpeg?) 19:02:32 I think I heard that too elliott 19:02:44 Also I always had issues with avconv compared to real ffmpeg 19:02:58 anyway I use it for taking out pieces of a video 19:03:24 it is "politics.exe" 19:03:36 Yes it definitely can be used for that. But it is a swiss army knife, and I don't use it enough to remember the complicated syntax 19:03:54 ffmpeg/avconv should just use the LAME library, anyway 19:04:02 as in, it almost certainly does 19:04:08 Does USD form a module over the ring of 100ths of integers? <-- 100ths of integers isn't closed under multiplication <-- bah, foiled again 19:04:11 Vorpal: flac can decode to stdout btw 19:04:16 so you can probably just pipe that into lame 19:04:19 (iirc) 19:04:54 elliott, then I will have to deal with messy file names with space. Also parallelizing it would be annoying 19:05:12 huh? 19:05:17 elliott, xargs -P 19:05:35 what is this about filenames 19:05:43 I just mean flac ... filename | lame ... rather than lame ... filename 19:06:16 elliott, yes, sure, but that means lame doesn't auto-set a reasonable output file name based on input, which it does when just provided a file name 19:06:26 oerjan: i'm just fascinated that it seems to be an open(ish) question 19:06:42 for i in *.flac; do sox "${i}" "${i/.flac/.wav}"; done # not parallel, but quite fast 19:06:48 find . -iname '*.wav' -print0 | xargs -0 -n1 -P4 lame -V2 # speeeed 19:07:07 I mean I could see the Maybe monad being unique 19:07:21 it's not so much an open question as nobody has bothered writing it up, as far as [] goes, I think 19:07:26 Vorpal how many cores do you have??? 19:07:32 it's one of those things that's "just obvious" 19:07:34 orin, 4 19:07:38 has someone found http://blog.jle.im/entry/a-non-unique-monad-instance yet? 19:07:39 if I am proved wrong I will eat several hats 19:07:42 orin, which is why I used -P4 19:07:46 ah 19:07:53 Phantom_Hoover: yeah not all types have a unique monad instance 19:08:00 though some of them have them unique up to a choice of monoid or such, I suspect 19:08:07 then with 2 programs per run, use P2? 19:08:10 elliott, Though .wav lost the metadata, of course 19:08:18 Well that can be copied 19:08:26 cpressey: for something like State, the thing is that we associate semantics with State s a beyond just Thing s a = s -> (a, s) 19:08:52 so when we say "the State monad", we're bringing the intended semantics in, whereas "the Thing monad" would be legitimately ambiguous 19:13:03 (,) Integer has multiple valid Monad instances 19:13:19 Eg, the Sum writer, the Product writer 19:13:36 Vorpal: I tried out the Android photosphere and panorama things. But the subject matter was such that you can't really judge stitching quality or anything. 19:13:37 yeah 19:13:42 that falls under "unique up to a choice of monoid" 19:14:33 fizzie, oh? 19:15:05 elliott, ah, I missed the goalposts moving 19:15:23 Taneb: hehe 19:15:27 elliott, this is strange, I'm using X11 forwarding, and a bloody wine program runs better over it than a qt program 19:15:28 well I never claimed that every type has a unique monad instance 19:15:35 I knew that counterexample from the start 19:15:54 Qt is probably poorly written then 19:15:55 Vorpal: This is directly out of the device: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20150324-pano_20150321_221800.jpg -- I think you could stitch that up pretty much as badly as you like and it still wouldn't be too noticeable. 19:16:01 Vorpal: that doesn't surprise me 19:16:03 Well, howabout "Sum Integer -> (Sum Integer, a)" has a more interesting non-uniqueness 19:16:08 wine's UI stuff is a lot simpler 19:16:12 elliott, hm true 19:16:19 ie, State monad and composition of Reader and Writer 19:16:29 Vorpal: and also I suspect Qt don't care about X11 forwarding 19:16:37 since it's unpleasant and Wayland 19:16:58 elliott, I think this qt is too old. Thought it is probably PyQt as well on top of everything 19:17:16 (Okay, there's a noticeable jagged edge in the pillar in front of the stage.) 19:17:21 Speaking of audio codecs I found http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html to be a good read 19:17:34 I'm forwarding from debian stable, I doubt it is too waylandish yet 19:17:59 has anyone here ever heard of "A Logical Approach to Discrete Math0" 19:18:30 by David Gries and F.B Schnieder 19:19:21 Vorpal: I just mean nobody cares about X11 forwarding because that's not how networked GUIs will work under Wayland, which is The Future that everyone is preparing for. 19:19:48 (rapidly becoming the present, really... I think Fedora plans to partially switch next version and then fully switch by default the version after?) 19:20:03 FireFly: hehe, I linked that earlier 19:20:08 elliott, right, I'm just trying to quickly access a GUI program on a different computer, and no x11vnc won't work well (because the target screen is like 3 times as big as the laptop I'm at) 19:20:17 elliott: oh. 19:20:27 elliott, hm what happens to catalyst and the nvidia drivers? 19:20:30 it doesn't get into lossy compression or anything but it's like half of what I know about digital audio 19:20:39 (I'm no expert!) 19:20:47 Vorpal: you could use xpra 19:20:56 Vorpal: and those drivers do kernel modesetting anyway 19:21:03 elliott, for forwarding? Never heard of it, will look into it 19:21:07 elliott: well yes; that's similar to "the ring of reals" thing; when people say that, I know they mean "the usual ring over the reals" even though there are probably others 19:21:10 yes you have I told you about xpra before :P 19:21:13 (I think) 19:21:17 cpressey: right 19:21:23 oh okay 19:21:29 cpressey: well, are there others? it depends on what you mean by "the reals" 19:21:40 elliott: yeah, i mean, i don't know 19:21:44 what about modesetting? Does that mean the drivers will work out of box for opengl under wayland? 19:21:46 it can't mean a set, because there are multiple constructions of the reals and only set theorists care about the difference 19:22:11 I assumed the user space component (libGL, libGLU and so on) would need updating to work with wayland 19:22:14 elliott: pretend i said "rationals" if you like :0 19:22:18 *:) 19:22:20 it's basically like what "the X" means in category theory -- "we know that all Xs are, say, uniquely isomorphic, so 'the X' just means whichever X you want, because there is only one in the ways we care about" 19:22:21 And I thought the drivers provided them 19:22:40 so "the reals" probably means "the ordered Archimedean field" 19:22:43 holy jesus "XWayland is an X Server running as a Wayland client" oh god why??? 19:22:56 orin: so that you can run X11 applications on a Wayland desktop? 19:23:16 orin, backward compatibility? 19:23:22 and we need to redirect everyhtinh thru another program!?!?? 19:23:22 why do nerds get so worked up about simple things... it's literally just software, chill :p 19:24:00 elliott, I should try that response at work :D 19:24:38 orin: ok, since you must be an expert to know how obviously unreasonable this is, what would you do? 19:24:43 "We are not meeting the real time scheduling deadline!" "It's literally just software, chill :p" 19:25:35 (Yes I work on real time control software, partly safety critical as in human lives, partly just "we lose a lot of money if it doesn't work") 19:26:21 hopefully the level of discourse at your workplace is slightly higher than holy jesus oh god why 19:26:30 elliott: I would have the new display thingy support the old API directly. 19:26:41 orin: that's not how it works. X11 is a network protocol 19:27:03 also, the whole point is to drop the cruft of the X11 protocol from the core display server. 19:27:18 (yes, multiple libraries are used to access X11 servers. e.g. Xlib and XCB.) 19:27:46 also, there's not really such a thing as "the Wayland server". 19:28:02 there's just Wayland compositors, which are relatively simple to write, because they don't have to do much. 19:28:17 ...but you knew all this before dismissing it, right? 19:28:23 elliott, yes, obviously. Though missing two scheduling deadlines in a row (or more than x in y, which I don't remember on the top of my head) will trigger an emergency stop. So that is probably not the worst way for stuff to fail in. And it failed in the lab (with simulated actuations) like that of course at some point or other 19:28:43 well my key issue here is "will this change cause my stuff to run slower or possibly not work?" and the answer seems to be "yes" 19:28:46 Vorpal: please don't get me killed :P 19:28:59 elliott, do you work in a mine? 19:29:32 orin: I don't see any reason for a non-negligible speed penalty. also, GTK and Qt and SDL and ... support Wayland natively, so most things will not go through the X11 forwarding soon enough. 19:29:47 just like pulseaudio caused problems for liek 5 years before is worked 19:29:50 elliott, if you don't work in one, then you are probably safe from me at least. 19:29:56 elliott: yes, also, that's the point (when you just start making general statements about structures) where I usually get lost :) 19:30:01 I think the current default GNOME Wayland setup actually uses XWayland for all the applications rather than native Wayland and it works just fine. 19:30:08 anyway, good evening, all 19:30:10 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:30:12 the overhead should be roughly nothing 19:30:19 it's not so much an open question as nobody has bothered writing it up, as far as [] goes, I think <-- did you see my finite length only counterexample above 19:30:27 I think you're just looking for an excuse to complain though so whatever 19:30:29 oerjan: oh I didn't 19:30:29 elliott, what about gaming performance through XWayland though? 19:30:42 Vorpal: well it's still going to be using GL, right 19:30:58 maaaaybe there'll be one additional copy? 19:31:03 but I'm not sure, I think there might not be 19:31:04 elliott, input lag though? 19:31:10 why? 19:31:17 it's not like xwayland is some huge bulky thing 19:31:19 well, an extra layer 19:31:21 True 19:31:29 elliott: essentially I'm aware that ANY change to software tends to cause users problems (NEW probles which don't have workarounds yet) 19:31:35 Not that there weren't extra layers before... 19:31:36 it's just like running an X11 server except instead of talking to graphicsy KMS stuff directly it talks to a wayland compositor 19:31:52 orin: ok. then I suggest running debian stable 19:31:55 and never updating it 19:32:20 oerjan: that is a strange instance 19:32:20 I run Xubuntu stable and I rarely update it 19:32:32 orin: great. then you don't have to complain about changes because you won't get them 19:32:33 elliott, also btw, real time systems are so nice to work with, you never see a GUI freeze up. The system just flows nicely all the time, irrespective of load. I'm seriously considering switching to a rt-patch kernel... 19:32:42 On my personal computer I mean 19:32:58 Still, that won't solve all of it of course 19:32:59 Vorpal: I could never work on anything directly connected to people's lives :/ 19:34:04 elliott, good testing and enough safety layers that if any one of the layers fail everything will stop in a safe way is the key to good sleep while programming real time systems 19:34:46 And hardware interlocks for the really critical parts of course. 19:35:59 please don't posix_madvise any cars I am in 19:36:19 elliott, If someone hits the emergency stop button, that breaks a constant current and electrically cuts off the output. Then the control software is informed of this, but it is not involved in actually halting the actuations. This is what people refer to as fail-safe 19:36:30 Well, one specific example of fail safe 19:36:41 do cars even use UNIX? 19:36:56 sure 19:37:05 an expensive car probably has a couple of linux systems in it these days I think 19:37:10 (but not for anything safety-critical) 19:37:16 okay, maybe not "probably" 19:37:18 but some of them do 19:37:33 elliott, there may be real time linux systems, but the brakes won't be running on Linux 19:37:38 yeah 19:37:39 The elevator in a hotel I was in recently had this thing where, for maybe 10-15% of trips, it started moving without closing the doors, went up for maybe a cm or two, then fell back and stopped; then closed the doors and did the normal thing. 19:37:43 It felt exactly like a hardware interlock stopping the software from doing a stupid thing, and didn't really leave me at ease. 19:37:49 Vorpal: I was thinking for, like, in-car touchscreen type things. 19:37:51 elliott, nobody has safety certified real time linux, that is the reason for that 19:37:52 so "the reals" probably means "the ordered Archimedean field" <-- *+complete 19:38:02 oerjan: I knew I was forgetting something 19:38:43 elliott, we use real time linux for some modules, but not for the modules which have been deemed safety critical. They run on some expensive certified RTOS. 19:39:08 Which begs the question... Which code is actually most well tested? That expensive RTOS, or Linux 19:39:14 I once saw a restaurant sign booting up... it was, for unfathomable reasons, RedHat. 19:39:18 http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/researchers-hack-cars-to-remotely-control-steering-and-brakes-8733723.html 19:39:20 One is certified yes, but what does that actually mean? 19:39:25 elliott, scared yet? 19:39:53 Vorpal: about as scared as always under late capitalism 19:39:53 Who certifies it? 19:40:19 elliott, I can almost guarantee it is not formally verified in most cases. Not an entire OS. Specific algorithms maybe. 19:41:25 Jafet, I wonder if the button to lock/unlock the car doors on the key is secure, it probably isn't using high end RSA keys, lets put it like that... 19:41:42 Depending on the car, a replay attack might work 19:41:51 elliott: I like that "era name": `In 2015, as the Late Capitalism Era continued to smolder...' 19:41:53 have you used one of those fancy RNG card things for banks 19:42:02 elliott, hm? 19:42:10 where you press a button and you put in the number it gives you into your bank's website 19:42:13 to do a wire transfer 19:42:15 I've always wondered exactly how they work 19:42:23 they'll spit out like 5 numbers in a minute before telling you to wait for the next one 19:42:29 I have never heard of such thing 19:42:31 I can think of many schemes you could use 19:42:32 elliott, I log in using my debit card, which I put into a card reader with a small display and a numpad 19:42:46 elliott, and that is challenge reply 19:42:58 Secure enough? Maybe, who knows... 19:43:00 the thing is, the card I am talking about is not networked at all 19:43:09 it is just a button and a display 19:43:31 elliott: giant one-time pad on flash memory? 19:43:33 *all* communication must necessarily be one-time, before the card is sent out to the customer 19:43:42 elliott, well nor is the one I'm using. I get a 9 digit code on my screen, type it into the card reader. 19:43:54 orin: maybe... the bank would have to store all the random data though 19:43:56 elliott, quite similar to this one https://gfs.nb.se/privat/bilder/ovrigt/card_reader_logincard.jpg 19:44:13 orin: it could just store a seed, but seeking to the "next" number might be slow 19:44:16 elliott, then the card PIN, and I get a 9 digit replay code 19:44:16 I don't know 19:44:17 like I said I can imagine tons of systems 19:44:30 but I wonder which one is actually used 19:45:10 elliott, what about these: http://www.tokenguard.com/images/tokens/SID700.gif I have that for VPN to work, it gives a new code every 30 seconds... But how do they keep the clock synced? 19:45:25 Vorpal: right, it is that kind of thing 19:45:32 wait 19:45:46 isn't that the thing that uses dual ec drbg because of the nsa 19:45:49 hahahahahahahahahahahaha 19:46:01 elliott, hm maybe? It looks quite similar at least 19:46:15 okay no it doesn't use it 19:46:17 just other RSA stuff 19:46:21 Right 19:46:30 "The RSA SecurID token is a rather old, already broken and a rather expensive solution." hm 19:46:34 well anyway one way to do it could be like... 19:46:43 elliott, you need more than just that one though, password as well 19:46:47 you have a key shared by the bank and your card 19:47:00 I had a SecurID at Nokia. 19:47:01 elliott, for https://gfs.nb.se/privat/bilder/ovrigt/card_reader_logincard.jpg you mean? 19:47:07 the card spits out some jumbling of the key with the current minute you're in, and an index 19:47:12 (like "the Nth code of the minute") 19:47:23 and then your bank just probes that space 19:47:24 I don't know 19:47:27 I think it's actually rate-limited though 19:47:43 like pressing it repeatedly gets you fewer codes in a minute than pressing it slowly over the course of the minute? I'm not sure 19:47:51 Vorpal: no for the thing I'm talking about 19:47:53 oerjan: that is a strange instance <-- basically i define everything to be [] except what the first and second monad laws and fmap law force not to be 19:47:58 don't worry I don't care about your bank's system at all :p 19:47:59 i just noticed that there are both edirc and erdic o_O 19:48:37 elliott, the one I have is rate limited and the challenge is time limited in it's validity, but not time limited in the generation algorithm (I tried the same challenge twice with a few minutes in between on the device, gave the same response) 19:49:08 izabera: there used to be both newsham and news-ham but that was my fault. 19:49:12 of course, a challenge is only valid for one entry on the website though 19:49:15 ha 19:49:36 And the bank account has a card reader with three different functions. One is plain identification, one a challenge-response and the last one a sign-a-payment thing. They differ in how many things you need to type in. 19:50:12 izabera: it would have been good if you made edirc as a pun on erdic though. 19:50:16 fizzie, yep 19:50:35 ha ha erdic it was totally a pun 19:51:03 fizzie, there are 4 buttons on the one I have (login, sign, buy and something I don't remember), only ever use two though (login and sign) 19:51:11 and a key pad 19:51:37 though all are challenge-response based 19:52:04 The "identify" on mine only needs the PIN. 19:52:10 fizzie, oh? Okay 19:52:21 for me it is challenge + PIN for every function 19:52:48 ISTR challenge wants one code, and sign a code and a monetary amount. 19:53:09 though challenge length can vary on a given function depending on what you transfer. Like when I made a bit transfer I had to type in the sum I transferred as well as the usual random numbers 19:53:30 big* 19:54:28 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:54:52 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 19:56:02 I got a Google account phishing email at my personal (non-gmail) address the other day. 19:56:31 It wasn't very professional, although they had at least copied the logos. 19:56:48 Heh 19:57:15 fizzie, I assume you use two factor auth for google? 19:57:48 I'm afraid I can't comment, but common sense says that would be a reasonable guess. 19:58:02 is that covered under your NDA too 19:58:21 Not explicitly. It's just very generic. 19:58:34 well a lot of sites have been pushing it lately 19:58:57 -!- Patashu has joined. 19:59:25 google, github, gandi, linode, launchpad too iirc(?) 19:59:35 and I'm sure I have seen more offering it 19:59:54 Did bitbucket offer it? I can't remember 20:00:13 We do support it for regular Google accounts. I think you can also use a Yubikey: https://www.yubico.com/products/yubikey-hardware/yubikey-neo/ 20:00:33 If you want to pay for the hardware, that is. 20:00:36 Oh yeah probably 20:00:54 fizzie, issue with yubikey iirc, is that it is limited to the number of accounts it can track? 20:00:55 No? 20:01:33 Maybe? I don't know details. 20:01:38 * int-e growls at Microsoft. 20:02:00 I wouldn't have expected, but... 20:02:09 yubikey supports like a billion things 20:02:19 https://www.yubico.com/products/yubikey-hardware/ 20:02:28 even PGP if you buy the right one 20:03:08 elliott, hm maybe it was the original one that was fairly limited then 20:03:26 And then there is the new U2F thingy 20:03:46 -!- L8D has joined. 20:03:53 yes, yubikey supports that 20:03:57 they even have one that just does that 20:04:00 (We're switching our calendars to Exchange... so you can mark appointments as private. Common sense would suggest that this means that the details of the appointment are only visible to yourself. And it seems to be true, as long as you use MS' own clients. But the server happily gives the information out, and the EWS provider for Thunderbird does *not* filter the information of other people's... 20:04:07 ...private appointments...) 20:04:08 for $18 20:04:27 Yubikey is pretty delightful. 20:04:33 elliott, Does the normal one support it? Then a neo might be worth buying, rather than storing the two factor auth keys on your phone... 20:04:51 http://tinyurl.com/pz5pcje 20:04:52 Though that costs 50 20:04:56 which is quite a lot 20:04:59 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:05:00 And that's what MS has to say on this. 20:05:02 -!- ^v has joined. 20:05:17 Vorpal: I literally linked you a table with all the things the models support. :p 20:05:42 elliott, yes I'm looking at it currently 20:05:55 Still, I would need NFC support, and $50 is quite a bit of money 20:07:46 it is 20:07:57 what's your salary and how often would you need a new yubikey though 20:09:53 Well depends on if they break backward compatibility and how long the thing lasts 20:10:12 They don't and apparently ages. 20:10:37 does it support firmware updates? . o O ( If so, every time you cross the US border and they find it in their security checks :P ) 20:10:49 Hah 20:10:52 int-e: Nope. 20:11:13 And that's the reason. :) 20:11:51 pikhq, well okay, but look at the original standard yubikey, it is fairly limited compared to the neo, and since they don't support firmware upgrades, I believe early neo doesn't support U2F? 20:11:57 -!- nycs has joined. 20:12:01 Vorpal: Correct. 20:12:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:12:20 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 20:12:37 int-e: they could probably do enough with just temporary access to it, really 20:13:05 You're not going to see new functionality for the thing, but it's not as though support for it's going to suddenly go away. 20:13:07 it's kind of irrelevant though since they could also just demand that you do whatever. 20:13:09 pikhq, so that can be considered breaking backward compatibility the day when TOTP is deprecated in favor U2F 20:13:31 pikhq, and apparently U2F currently doesn't support NFC 20:13:37 so no login on the phone 20:14:10 "Please note, current U2F standards do not support NFC for mobile devices. For more information, you can access the full U2F Specifications on the FIDO Alliance website." 20:14:26 Probably won't be possible to update a NEO to add that support? 20:16:26 -!- Lymia has joined. 20:21:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:25:23 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:25:51 elliott, hm a ubikey neo and putting your ssh keys on it as well would be cool. And client ssl certificate. 20:26:22 Vorpal: uh, just make sure you don't lose it 20:26:30 (I don't think you could use password-protected keys there) 20:27:01 elliott, hm... well you could have a password protected offline copy stored in a bank deposit 20:27:13 Or something along those lines 20:27:36 the point is that someone would get access to all your ssh accounts just from stealing your key 20:28:33 elliott: keep it around your neck at all times then 20:29:03 sure 20:29:17 ideally it would be embedded in your skin and only removable surgically 20:29:27 (these things are waterproof right)?] 20:29:31 (let's hope it doesn't have a tracking device in it) 20:30:02 elliott: Oh shit 20:30:18 elliott, hm surely it would be pin protected as well? I think the GPG key variant when the device is acting as a smartcart requires a pin 20:30:27 from some googling at least 20:30:37 well that's life in our corporatist paradise 20:31:23 Vorpal: maybe... how do you give the yubikey the pin without giving the computer you're using license to print as many signaturse as it wants 20:31:46 *signatures 20:32:16 elliott, the issue I have is storing keys on my computer, even encrypted, what if the key is being handled in memory at the moment an attack happens 20:32:27 elliott, hm true 20:32:53 it would need a bulky PIN entry thing 20:32:58 True 20:33:02 oh 20:33:05 I guess it would still require you to press it 20:33:07 but still 20:33:13 kinda yuck to give your computer the PIN 20:33:17 Indeed 20:33:30 *ahem* voice input for digits *ahem* 20:33:34 Very good in public. :p 20:33:39 Hah 20:33:45 is that what they have you working on :P 20:33:46 Maybe try whispering. 20:33:53 elliott, Speaking of which, what if an attack breaks out of the browser sandbox. Then it has control of your X session... And if you have a root terminal open at that point. Ouch 20:33:55 I'm afraid I can't comment, but no. 20:34:34 I do remember reading one whisper-related research paper, but I can't recall whether it was about whispering recognition or whispering synthesis. 20:34:47 fizzie, do you call old versions of google now "google then"? 20:34:48 put a touchscreen on it and use handwriting input 20:35:04 Vorpal: I think Wayland will be a bit more secure there 20:35:09 elliott, oh? 20:35:18 that would be less bulky but more expensive obviously 20:35:18 in that it will have more security than X's "none" 20:35:30 Yes; the way people have explained it to me, Wayland will improve on X's security model by having one. 20:35:41 hehe 20:35:44 elliott, so now you break screen magnifiers and screenshot apps? 20:36:02 oh no how terrible, we'll have to give like three programs special permissions :p 20:36:11 Also password managers where you copy the key means that your key can be spyed on when in the clipboard 20:36:17 elliott, right 20:37:07 All this authentication talk makes me ashamed of not having enabled 2FA for my personal Google account. :/ 20:37:23 elliott, Apparently you can use gpg on yubikey, and you can use a gpg-agent for ssh login, so that way you can use a yubikey for ssh... 20:38:00 Though there is no direct ssh key or ssl client cert support 20:40:25 fizzie: I just avoid having anything important on there 20:41:45 and I deal with my bank mostly physically anyway 20:43:42 It is cheap to clone a credit card, expensive to make a mask that looks like me and copy my passport 20:44:14 Although with modern 3d printing... 20:44:28 Vorpal: Here's the other place I did a photosphere thing: http://goo.gl/0SvqVQ 20:44:47 fizzie, I didn't see the first one? 20:44:50 "Not shown on Google Maps. Why? Pending approval..." they don't like me :/ 20:44:57 Oh, right. Well, it's the same place as the panorama. 20:45:27 http://goo.gl/Wrhs28 20:45:38 fizzie, that thing is hell on my browser on this old laptop? Can't you just link it like a normal image? 20:45:58 fizzie, I don't mind it being a bit distorted 20:46:12 Well, okay. 20:46:25 fizzie, I think it is trying to do GL stuff, this is a core 2 duo with intel graphics, from before when intel graphics were any good 20:46:33 Except that I don't have it dumped from the phone yet. 20:46:37 Ah 20:46:41 I'll wait 20:46:43 (Forgot.) 20:46:48 I don't know if you can link to the underlying image in Views. 20:46:57 fizzie, I didn't see any google maps integration in google camera? 20:47:29 Vorpal: Yeah, it's really strange. Apparently you're supposed to be able to "share" it from Photos directly to Maps, but Maps doesn't even show up in the sharing menu. 20:47:44 fizzie, so how did you upload it to maps? 20:47:54 What is the roundhouse? 20:48:13 is that a nightclub or a theatre? 20:48:14 Vorpal: The "official" (as in, mentioned in the support group) workaround is to set "full-resolution uploads" on in G+, upload to a G+ post, then go to Views with a regular browser and import it in from "my posts". 20:48:21 fizzie, Also I wouldn't want to share it to maps, in any case, I don't get any royalty for it from google... 20:48:26 orin: It's a venue, I think it's mostly about music? 20:48:48 fizzie, heh I actually laughed out loud at that complicated workaround 20:49:26 Vorpal: I mean, it's just an image, I think you can also just upload it to Views from a computer, and use any means you like to get the image off the phone. Although I don't know if it loses some metadata. 20:49:49 FWIW, at least my phone makes a pretty low-res photosphere. 20:49:53 fizzie, what is "Views" with a capital V anyway? 20:50:01 And yes, so does mine 20:50:17 And didn't you have a nexus 6? 20:50:27 I guess low res is a way to hide the seams 20:50:47 some google thing... they've switched from prepending a G to just capitalizing everything 20:50:52 Vorpal: As far as I can tell, Views is the part of Google Maps that deals with photospheres. The linking of multiple ones into a navigable thing, and the web-viewer, and so on. 20:51:15 Vorpal: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20150324-pano_20150321_191802.jpg is the one I had dumped out of the phone, as a regular image. 20:51:16 fizzie, is this different than street view? 20:51:39 fizzie, neat, what is that of 20:51:51 http://www.roundhouse.org.uk/ 20:52:00 It's some old railway turntable thing, I think. 20:52:04 That photosphere thing is cool, how does that work? 20:52:23 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 20:52:27 FireFly, turned into a venue? 20:52:31 err 20:52:32 fizzie, ^ 20:52:36 Right. 20:53:09 FireFly, the phone uses the gyro to keep track of where you are looking and then try to stitch together an image similar to any other panorama 20:53:14 I see 20:53:32 well probably gyro and compass 20:53:51 FireFly, it also shows some guide points to help you get complete coverage 20:54:31 Hey, I can download the other photo back out of G+. 20:54:50 "2015 - 1.jpg". What a good file name. 20:55:02 fizzie, it would be fun to try photo mapping btw, as in using photos to re-create a 3D scene with reasonable textures, it is all the rage nowdays 20:55:59 Yes. I even tried that out briefly back in Finland on some buildings of the university campus, but couldn't get a good enough set of photos to make the software work. 20:56:12 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20150324-ps.jpg there's the other thing. 20:56:55 Heh, a rather nasty seam in the bridge. They look okayish at a glance, but... 20:57:43 I think I'll stick to panotoolsing it up. But admittedly this is more convenient. 20:58:15 fizzie, oh? what software? 20:58:23 I don't know what software to use 20:58:31 I had a good set of links somewhere. 20:58:42 Oh, right here. 20:58:48 Let's see if they're not dead yet. 20:59:01 nice sphere 20:59:07 fizzie, I forgot if I uploaded mine 21:00:59 http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~snavely/bundler/ does the basic unsorted-images-to-sparse-3D-point-cloud thing, http://www.di.ens.fr/pmvs/ can take that further into a mesh-and-texture thing, http://www.di.ens.fr/cmvs/ is a computational-cost-reducing trick for it, and http://ccwu.me/vsfm/ is kind of a full toolchain/frontend for it all. 21:01:19 It's all typical research code, so at least back when I was trying, getting it to compile was a full evening's job. 21:01:19 heh 21:01:28 Ouch 21:01:59 VisualSFM changelog doesn't include dates, cleverly, so it's hard to tell if it's actually seen any work lately. 21:02:09 fizzie, hm didn't google research thingy have a phone with stereo cameras that could do this on the fly? 21:02:13 project tango? 21:02:17 Something like that? 21:02:19 Yes. 21:03:11 I remember something else vaguely similar too. 21:03:20 From a Tested.com video or something. 21:03:39 Ah 21:03:54 And of course Street View does 3D reconstruction, but that's based on the LIDAR stuff. 21:04:27 right 21:04:38 There was a LIDAR unit at the Computer History Museum's self-driving car exhibit. 21:04:47 fizzie, actually, does it do 3D reconstruction? 21:04:56 I never noticed it 21:05:21 I'm not sure how widely they actually do it. 21:05:34 You mean, some areas only? 21:07:10 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:08:05 I have this vague idea (based entirely on pre-Google knowledge) that the LIDAR data from Street View cars is involved in the 3D buildings of Google Earth (which I guess is now kinda-sorta part of the new web Google Maps). 21:08:15 But I could be entirely wrong there. 21:08:32 3D buildings on google maps? Didn't know that 21:09:04 Yes. If you use the new thing, satellite imagery is replaced with something relatively Earth-like. 21:09:22 huh 21:09:28 Except you only have three levels of tilt (straight from above, and two oblique ones) and the 4 cardinal directions for rotation. 21:09:39 I assume it's all WebGL. 21:09:44 fizzie, not like this computer could handle it, Also wouldn't it be limited to areas with street view coverage only? 21:10:11 I think it's limited to much less than that. Like, major city centres. 21:12:26 huh 21:13:16 Helsinki doesn't have 3D buildings (in Maps) at all. 21:13:25 Although it does in the actual Google Earth. 21:13:28 Ah 21:13:59 fizzie, how does it handle complex building shapes? Like "not a box"? 21:14:13 I think it's been impressively good, actually. 21:14:28 fizzie, I wonder if it based on building plans though 21:14:32 There's a funny thing that it's clearly somehow optimized for the view direction. 21:14:42 (Possibly just the render aspect.) 21:14:49 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:14:54 If you rotate it 90 degrees, it's very... well, it's hard to describe. But wrong-looking. 21:15:05 fizzie, I'm fairly certain that the building outlines on some Swedish maps are, because they are basically identical between different providers. 21:15:07 Then it'll fix things up after it loads more stuff. 21:15:46 If this magazine article is right, the 3D buildings in Maps are based on reconstructions from aerial imagery. 21:16:27 Well that I don't believe quite 21:16:45 fizzie, if so I wonder what something like the Eifel tower would end up looking like 21:17:23 They've had the "landmark" buildings as manually constructed 3D models for quite a while. 21:17:32 I doubt they'll let the autogenerated stuff override that. 21:17:51 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:17:53 Right 21:18:07 fizzie, but I wonder how the algorithm would handle a building like that 21:20:40 http://www.google.com.au/earth/explore/showcase/3dimagery.html is about the only official thing I can find. 21:21:32 -!- cpressey has joined. 21:22:29 oerjan: elliott: I guess an example is "the group over the rationals"; you obviously wouldn't say that because there are obviously 2 "good" candidates. and I'm pretty sure there are an infinite number of others 21:23:15 where * is multiplication and a|b = 2(a+b) I think is a ring, and there would be many more where that came from 21:23:45 sure 21:23:59 and maybe a ring theorist would say "that's not REALLY different from the standard one" and well, no, it's not very interesting, they're both rings and ring theorists care more about rings than the sets of things that form the rings 21:24:03 but 21:24:11 programmers DO care about the concrete data, a lot. 21:24:32 i just needed to say that. i'll be afk for a bit 21:25:55 Vorpal: Oh, here it finally is. http://google-latlong.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/never-ending-quest-for-perfect-map.html "Since 2006, we’ve had textured 3D buildings in Google Earth, and today we are excited to announce that we will begin adding 3D models to entire metropolitan areas to Google Earth on mobile devices. This is possible thanks to a combination of our new imagery rendering ... 21:26:01 ... techniques and computer vision that let us automatically create 3D cityscapes, complete with buildings, terrain and even landscaping, from 45-degree aerial imagery." 21:26:46 As for quality, it's not hard to find places where it's made approximations (for "thin" structures etc.) but it's been better than I expected. 21:28:37 Hm 21:29:08 a|b = 2(a+b) doesn't look very associative 21:29:48 or perhaps we should start with the existence of a unit 21:33:31 is $pos-- while (substr($data, $pos, 1) =~ /[\x80-\xBF]/); okay perl or is there a nicer way of doing that? (The task is to rewind $pos to the start of a unicode character in UTF-8.) 21:35:40 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:36:23 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:37:31 try matching the string up to position $pos against /[\x80-\xBF]*$/ and use length of match 21:40:33 -!- HMC_A has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:41:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:41:46 Hmm, so ... substr($data, 0, $pos) =~ /[\x80-\xBF]*$/; $pos = $-[0]; 21:44:45 actually no, that has an off-by-one error. 21:44:57 yep, you want $-[0]-1 21:45:15 or /.[\x80-\xBF]*$/ 21:45:57 that is different if the string is all \x80-\xBF]* 21:45:58 (oh but what's the value of $-[0] if there was no match...) 21:46:11 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 21:46:11 -!- zemhill_ has quit (*.net *.split). 21:46:12 -!- jameseb has quit (*.net *.split). 21:46:18 leaving out the . ensures a match 21:46:43 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:47:01 anyway , the nicest way involves avoiding the need to compute positions in the first place 21:47:06 -!- ^v has joined. 21:47:26 -!- HMC_A has joined. 21:47:43 -!- fungot has joined. 21:47:43 -!- zemhill_ has joined. 21:47:43 -!- jameseb has joined. 21:48:28 thanks for the ideas 21:49:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 21:49:42 yw! 21:54:38 fizzie, how does the 3D reconstruction thing handle stuff like trees I wonder 21:54:55 I think they're faked. 21:55:08 fizzie, no I mean, does it filter them? 21:55:14 The research stuff you talked about 21:55:21 Oh, right, that. 21:55:24 fizzie, also does it need/make use of geotagged images? 21:55:24 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 21:55:48 I remember some camera app for my phone that could record compass direction as well 21:55:52 I don't think at least the VisualSFM workflow needs or makes any use of existing geotags. 21:56:32 Ah 21:57:10 fizzie, I will endeavor to try that stuff out at some point. You said compiling it was tricky? 21:57:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:58:20 Back then, yes. But I didn't keep any notes. 21:58:24 So this was a while ago? 21:58:37 Yes, at least a year or two. 21:58:47 I think the "Ubuntu" installation guide on the VisualSFM page -- http://www.10flow.com/2012/08/15/building-visualsfm-on-ubuntu-12-04-precise-pangolin-desktop-64-bit/ -- more or less worked out on Debian. 21:59:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:59:23 ah 21:59:37 It must've been more like three years, because this is the same guide I remember reading, and it's talking about 12.04. 22:00:52 Anyway, there was nothing especially difficult, just minor nuisances. The kind of things the Ubuntu guide mentions, though I'm sure its workarounds are not the only possible ones. 22:01:56 Also, if you want a feeling of accomplishment, I'd suggest starting with some small physical object that you can walk around and photograph from all angles, and running the thing on that first. 22:02:21 Possibly even including somewhat from above. 22:02:27 fizzie, I don't think I uploaded this one before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pjrwlsdckl3wr81/PANO_20150308_132129.jpg?dl=0 22:02:36 fizzie, I tried out that fish eye pano mod 22:02:38 mode* 22:03:23 Because I think the main problem with my "huge building not entirely visible from any place" thing was that it couldn't figure out how the pieces fit together, so it made me something like 20 unconnected components that were parts of the building. 22:04:00 So it's regular photos and just a fisheye projection for the result, or what? 22:04:11 fizzie, well I don't mind if the roof is missing, it would be interesting it could accurately reconstruct the view along a street at ground level 22:04:26 Even if there are some trees blocking the view every now and then 22:04:36 fizzie, it is from the google camera app! 22:04:45 Oh! I didn't even know it has that. 22:04:56 fizzie, you go to non-sphere panorama and then you switch from landscape mode 22:04:58 VisualSFM did pieces of different walls for me, it just didn't combine them into a single whole. 22:05:38 fizzie, it is the [box] ... button you click on, and then you select the circle icon 22:05:42 Ohhh. I didn't even see that menu. 22:05:47 Yes, found it. 22:05:50 No it wasn't really explanatory 22:05:57 I had no idea it was doing fisheye 22:06:07 when I first tried it 22:06:29 Do you know what the pillow-shaped thing is? The guide points looked like a 3x3 grid, so just a wideangle thing? 22:06:51 fizzie, I think so, though I'm not 100% sure 22:07:05 fizzie, by the way, how does the google camera app figure out the lens parameters? 22:07:14 Wow, the fisheye has a lot of points. 22:07:17 I would love to figure those out myself for use with hugin 22:07:52 You can optimize for them, up to some degree. 22:08:01 I don't know how the stock camera app does it, though. 22:08:47 fizzie, that is not the stock camera on my phone though 22:08:52 so that is why I wonder 22:09:03 since the data in question is not in the normal EXIF data 22:09:10 unlike what my real camera gives me 22:09:17 Hmm. Don't know. 22:09:27 My old phone (the N900) put some lens stuff in the EXIF data. 22:09:45 Although I think it was missing some stuff, because Hugin didn't know the focal length multiplier. 22:09:46 fizzie, here is another phone camera image https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8nfprekuyjupby/PANO_20150314_150829.jpg?dl=0 22:10:04 More traditional pano 22:10:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:14:24 alright, so | as I defined it isn't associative. 22:15:01 so is there only one ring over the rationals? 22:15:13 that seems so unlikely, somehow 22:16:28 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 22:17:06 fizzie, so here is a bunch more panos https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eejt7nnbu5ephrq/AAAR-Jrfg0V8nFPwYKG8_VNGa?dl=0 22:17:57 fizzie, also a normal photo of amazing ice 22:19:18 cpressey: perhaps there's only one ring over rationals where multiplication is comutive? 22:20:54 what about where a|b = 2*a*b 22:21:14 but this is kind of straying from my main point 22:22:02 which i don't remember well enough to put into words at the moment 22:22:17 Vorpal: Fancy. Although the fisheye images kind of look "too perfect" to be realistic fisheye images. 22:22:44 Vorpal: No chromatic aberration near the outer edge and so on. 22:23:01 quintopia: I stand corrected. I do have something new. But it's not terribly esoteric: http://catseye.tc/installation/Matchbox 22:23:18 fizzie, true 22:23:54 fizzie, what do you think about the iced branches above the stream? 22:24:08 fizzie, it looked more amazing when you were there 22:27:01 V. fancy, too. Running water and ice tend to be a good combination. I think there was some photography collection at the Yle (Finnish public broadcasting thing) website once. 22:27:07 No ice or snow hereabouts. 22:27:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:27:58 fizzie, two more normal images of fancy ice added (from a while ago, might have showed it earlier?) 22:32:33 fizzie, ooh found another nice image I haven't uploaded, might have some seams though 22:33:18 still uploading though 22:33:41 Ok nevermind Wayland is ok... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_%28software%29 22:34:23 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 22:34:29 fizzie, https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eejt7nnbu5ephrq/AAAR-Jrfg0V8nFPwYKG8_VNGa?dl=0#lh:null-PANO_20150222_143800.jpg 22:35:46 What projection is that? 22:36:22 orin, not sure, it is the google camera app photo sphere thingy 22:36:40 fizzie, that is on the top of a ridge that road goes over, though that isn't clear from the image I think 22:37:03 I think the app was confused, because that looks decidedly flat in the image 22:37:15 I think the photoshpere is just regular equirectangular image. 22:37:59 fizzie, anyway isn't this ice amazing: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eejt7nnbu5ephrq/AAAR-Jrfg0V8nFPwYKG8_VNGa?dl=0#lh:null-DSC_0069.JPG 22:38:16 The aspect ratio is exactly 2, which would make sense for a 360x180 degree equirectangular image, and the top/bottom edge distortions look like that too. 22:38:30 (Since both edges are really just points.) 22:38:59 fizzie, yeah is is annoying that you get varying pixel sizes in panoramas 22:39:39 Nice ice. No pun intended. 22:39:57 I was taking some macro photos of our frozen balcony glasses back in Finland, but haven't had time to put them anywhere. 22:40:14 fizzie, that is phone camera, not really macro 22:40:27 fizzie, from the Xperia Z2 22:41:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:42:55 fizzie, hm I have an awkward vertical 4K video from my phone here, about 5 seconds. Yeah I don't think I'm very good at videos... 22:43:33 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20150324-20100215_001.jpg this is kind of in the same category, although a bit less frozen. (From 2010, taken with the N900.) 22:44:07 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:44:25 Holy crap, this 4K video is 149 MB and just 24 seconds long 22:44:29 I'm not uploading that 22:44:50 fizzie, nice 22:45:33 fizzie, it may be obvious from this image, but the path was really a stream at this point https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eejt7nnbu5ephrq/AAAR-Jrfg0V8nFPwYKG8_VNGa?dl=0#lh:null-DSC_0364.JPG 22:45:44 it is also quite a steep slope 22:47:15 I took photos of all the Google Android sculptures they have on the lawn. 22:47:28 fizzie, you should try photo mapping 22:47:46 as in 3D reconstruction 22:47:48 of the statues 22:48:21 I don't think I have enough frames for that, didn't really have that in mind. Which is silly, because back in Finland I was wondering where I'd find a nice recognizable shape for a statue. 22:48:25 also btw, I wonder how accurate that 3D mapping is? Could you reconstruct with a street with meter accuracy? 22:48:44 Aww 22:49:06 Well, maybe next visit. 22:49:08 fizzie, wouldn't recording video be perfect for this? Just extract the video frames... 22:49:17 Or is the quality too bad? 22:49:33 There's the motion blur problem. 22:49:41 Ah, true 22:49:57 You could try to filter for non-blurry images 22:50:25 Yes. I'm not sure if any of those 4 links I mention explicitly do video, but I'm sure I've seen some stuff related to it. 22:50:32 Hm 22:51:22 The first thing (Bundler) is associated with this fancy thing: http://www.cs.cornell.edu/projects/bigsfm/ 22:51:37 It's about doing large-scale models from large photo datasets that weren't really intended for that purpose. 22:52:08 While the VisualSFM workflow is kind of more oriented around you taking a bunch of pictures of a particular thing you want to reconstruct. 22:54:22 ah 22:56:55 People having been doing SfM from the Google Street View images, I know that. 22:57:23 http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=5457551 is something a quick search turned up. 22:57:41 I don't know if we've published any papers in the topic. 22:58:46 Wonder how many individual photos the Street View collection is. It's probably a big number. 22:59:33 cool 23:02:10 Heh, "Incremental plane-based reconstruction and exploration of buildings in old postcards". 23:03:50 Title was more interesting than the contents, to be honest. 23:04:07 (Not Google-related at all, just browsing.) 23:05:32 http://vision.princeton.edu/projects/2014/readjustment/paper.pdf is probably relevant wrt how accurate you can get with photos. 23:11:57 cool 23:13:35 I like this stuff; it's a shame people aren't doing the same with audio. 23:14:56 Record some arbitrary signal with N microphones, reconstruct the 3D environment around it. Might be "slightly" more ill-conditioned problem. 23:16:44 fizzie, though I was more wondering on the global measurement accuracy. Could you for example use this to improve something like openstreetmap? 23:17:01 fizzie, heh 23:18:58 How physical-reality-accurate is OpenStreetMap trying to be, anyway? 23:19:35 fizzie, well, as good as possible, though it depends on the individual contributor I assume 23:20:28 fizzie, I have contributed some stuff to it for example. And it depended on my input data in each case how accurate I could be. 23:20:51 Physical accuracy might not be absolutely critical (I mean, below the scale of, say, 1m) for many of their use cases, though. 23:21:00 well of course 23:21:24 fizzie, but air-based imagery in hilly terrain has some issues when not taken from straight above 23:21:35 That's spooky, I went to maps.google.com and it knows where I am. 23:21:45 In some cases, such as mapping trails in nature reserves, all I have is my GPS traces, with maybe a 10-20 meter accuracy if conditions are bad 23:21:57 I mean, on a desktop browser. And I don't mean the city, I mean the exact location. 23:22:03 fizzie, ouch 23:22:18 fizzie, I always click "don't share location" when I get such questions 23:22:37 It didn't ask. 23:22:57 I mean, it didn't show the "website wants to know your location" thing. Although it's quite possible I've given it permission. 23:23:16 Incidentally, IP geolocation puts our home DSL into Topcliffe, UK. 23:23:33 That's somewhere north of Leeds, and very much not where we are. 23:24:22 (It's something like 300 km off.) 23:24:40 Well, maybe 200-300. Anyway. 23:24:41 Heh 23:24:56 fizzie, maybe google checks the ping from all their servers and uses that? 23:25:04 That would be neat 23:25:54 Heh. Or maybe it's tied to my logged-in Android device with location reporting. (Hey, they paid for it.) 23:26:27 fizzie, anyway, you should be able to deal with hills and such when mapping using SFM on the ground I think. 23:26:35 If it is accurate enough 23:26:48 And you have some way to calibrate or measure a base distance 23:27:44 Mmmaybe. If you don't get a single frame out of the whole thing you're mapping, though, you might end up with accumulating error, like when using accelerometer-based things. 23:30:36 True 23:31:03 Hmm. 23:31:13 "When you activate the My Location feature, Google Maps asks your web browser for your location. Typically, your browser uses information about the Wi-Fi access points around you to estimate your location." 23:31:30 Maybe they know of an access point in this building, or somethin... wait a minute, this desktop doesn't have wifi. 23:31:56 fizzie, I was thinking you would carefully take photos of a city block or two that is on a hill, and some features on flat terrain nearby, then you could create a 3D model, and calculate a orthographic projection straight above from it, and use that to create the map 23:32:18 fizzie, ouch 23:32:41 "If no Wi-Fi access points are in range, or your computer doesn't have Wi-Fi, it may resort to using your computer's IP address to get an approximate location." Well, it's not doing that. Unless Google's getting my ISP's subscriber information or something, which sounds unlikely. 23:32:55 Maybe I should check in Javascript console what the JS geolocation API returns. 23:33:00 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:33:11 -!- Lymee has joined. 23:33:19 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:33:55 heh 23:34:17 well, I need to sleep 23:34:19 good night 23:34:21 Hmm. Well, doing that in the JS console did pop up the "... wants to use your computer's location" box, so they're not using that. 23:34:26 I'm going to guess it's device-based, then. 23:34:27 Night. 23:45:10 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 23:47:54 are you on a mac? 23:48:01 -!- iamevn has joined. 23:48:18 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:59:36 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 2015-03-25: 00:02:43 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:06:40 -!- boily has joined. 00:22:37 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 00:26:21 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 00:28:54 -!- Lymee has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:30:22 quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA! *krssshhht* the cookies are home *khkhhhssshhh* over *rrkrhhshttt* 00:43:39 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:01:40 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 01:01:57 -!- idris-bot has joined. 01:03:52 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:06:16 -!- mroman has joined. 01:11:51 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 01:12:04 -!- idris-bot has joined. 01:13:08 -!- Lymia has joined. 01:18:29 -!- boily has quit (Quit: REPORTED CHICKEN). 01:23:05 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:42:04 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:36:09 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:43:38 -!- bb010g has joined. 02:50:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:45:39 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:47:35 -!- olsner has joined. 03:54:43 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djG0j3bpCLQ 03:56:58 -!- L8D has joined. 03:59:42 -!- CADD has joined. 04:27:01 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 05:03:30 https://github.com/clarus/falso 05:12:09 -!- CADD has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:12:21 Well, I'll have to get a dissertation out the door at once. 05:16:32 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:22:23 -!- gde33 has quit. 05:26:10 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:26:27 J_Arcane: I was disappointed to find out that Coq's trusted kernel core is much more code than I thought it was (30,000+ lines). 05:26:49 (Agda is even less stable though.) 05:26:58 (I guess HOL Light or Metamath or whatever are the only options if you want a core you can actually trust.) 05:29:29 -!- L8D has joined. 05:54:12 -!- CADD has joined. 06:19:42 -!- qwertyo has joined. 06:19:44 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:24:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:20:40 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:24:06 -!- Novtopro_ has joined. 07:26:40 -!- vodkode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:27:10 -!- L8D has joined. 07:28:33 -!- Novtopro_ has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 07:29:57 -!- Novtopro_ has joined. 07:37:59 -!- Novtopro_ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 07:38:31 so is there only one ring over the rationals? <-- argh of course not 07:38:37 and he's not here 07:39:01 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:40:58 @tell cpressey what about where a|b = 2*a*b <-- that is indeed a ring, but almost trivially so: \x -> 2*x is an isomorphism between that and the ordinary ring of rationals. 07:40:58 Consider it noted. 07:42:42 @tell cpressey hm it may be that all nontrivial rings that share the same addition as the rationals have to be like that. 07:42:42 Consider it noted. 07:44:56 oerjan: no, of course not. the zero ring isn't like that, for one. 07:45:24 well that's the only one, and me just the value of 2 = 0 :P 07:45:43 and in fact that was the ring i tried to exclude with "nontrivial" 07:45:51 oh 07:45:55 then... maybe 07:46:04 but wait 07:46:11 i think it's fairly simply actually 07:46:28 hmm yeah, I guess 07:46:45 you use the distributive law to show that n|x = n*(1|x) 07:46:51 for an integer 07:47:10 if the ring has a unit (but not necessarily 1 as the unit) then I think it has to be the same 07:47:43 a|b = (1|1)*a*b 07:47:54 is what you end up with, i think 07:50:15 q*((p/q)|a) = (p/1)|a = p*(1|a) by distributive law, so ((p/q)|a) = p/q*(1|a) 07:50:29 (p,q integers) 07:53:07 You can define an operation o(x,y) = log(e^x + e^y) 07:53:40 @tell cpressey for p,q integers, q*((p/q)|a) = (p/1)|a = p*(1|a) by splitting p and q into sums of 1 and using the distributive law, so ((p/q)|a) = p/q*(1|a), i.e. b|a = b*(1|a) and by mirror argument = b*a*(1|1) 07:53:40 Consider it noted. 07:54:07 FreeFull: that's not within the rationals 07:54:20 Well, no 07:54:33 I was just thinking about the relation between addition and multiplication 07:55:21 That operation with addition should form a ring over reals, I think 07:55:23 s/me just the value/is the special case& 07:55:31 Actually, reals + negative infinity 07:55:57 You need to adjoin the negative infinity as the identity element 07:56:17 yes, because addition and multiplication aren't groups with the exact elements 07:56:33 so shifting must compensate 07:56:52 I'm not actually a mathematician 07:57:29 basically, f(x) = e^x is a monoid homomorphism from addition to multiplication 07:57:42 oh and of course it's also missing all the negative numbers 07:59:33 Yeah, unless you go into the complex numbers 08:00:06 you don't get a ring but maybe a semiring 08:00:19 because o doesn't have inverses 08:00:55 Oh, good point 08:01:07 complexes doesn't really help, you get a multivalued mess 08:03:22 problem is, i*i*i*i = 1 or even just (-1)*(-1) = 1 means complex multiplication cannot be isomorphic to addition 08:03:37 actually the latter applies to reals too 08:04:38 Wait, is x^(log(y)) = y^(log(x)) if x and y are positive? 08:05:03 hm they're both e^(log(x)log(y)) 08:05:05 . o O ( no, of course not ... err, yes it is. ) 08:06:00 Does exp(log(x)log(y)) have any useful properties if we restrict ourselves to positive reals? 08:06:25 (This was my spontaneous reaction, followed by the same rewriting that oerjan demonstrated.) 08:06:26 sure, then it _is_ isomorphic to ordinary addition on all the reals 08:06:35 or wait 08:06:57 * oerjan is having trouble keeping the directions straight in his head 08:07:30 multiplication on the positive reals is isomorphic to addition on the reals 08:07:39 ^ 08:08:01 FreeFull: what you wrote is "obviously" isomorphic to _multiplication_ on all the reals 08:09:08 and so it's a ring together with ordinary multiplication on the positive reals, by int-e's comment 08:09:17 (in fact a field) 08:10:20 Ah, right. We're solving "If addition were ordinary multiplication on the positive reals, what would multiplication look like?" 08:10:47 MAYBE 08:10:57 Just trying to clarify by confusion. 08:11:01 What's the inverse? 08:11:19 (It rarely works, but it's often a lot of fun.) 08:11:40 FreeFull: exp(1/log(x)) i assume 08:12:19 Ah, yeah, that would fit the bill 08:14:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:14:20 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:14:42 -!- hjulle has joined. 08:16:19 That reminds me that in a first year course I once proved that f(x,y) = (x + y) / (1 - x y) (on R + { oo })) is a group operation by pointing out the homomorphism to R / 2piZ... that wasn't the expected solution :P 08:17:06 Sorry, R / (piZ) of course. 08:17:18 Why not write inf rather than oo? 08:17:30 -!- v4s has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:17:34 did you get credit 08:17:36 because oo is cuter. 08:18:00 Or ∞ 08:18:28 I did, together with a comment along the lines of "that's a nifty solution but you need a lot more theory to show that property of arctan than is required for solving this problem." 08:18:48 FreeFull: ∞ is ugly here. 08:18:58 oh arctan right 08:19:37 -!- v4s has joined. 08:19:42 int-e: did you know arctanh gives a homomorphism between ordinary addition and the special relativistic velocity addition formula? 08:20:10 oerjan: That's rather cool 08:20:14 that formula is the same as your, except with + instead of - 08:20:18 *yours 08:20:44 oerjan: I knew the latter, but not the velocity addition formula. 08:21:30 (I may have seen it, but then it would've been obscured by some extra speeds of light (c)) 08:21:38 well naturally 08:22:22 Something involving 1/(1 - v^2/c^2) 08:22:39 + not -, i say 08:22:39 ? 08:22:45 thank you edirc 08:22:55 http://codepad.org/HnoU7WuO 08:23:05 verbose burlesque :D 08:23:31 a bit more bots and we _all_ need to add the HackEgo zero-width space 08:26:42 is that a Basic/Pascal/Forth hybrid 08:27:19 it like rings 3 different nostalgia bells 08:29:15 and gives me the feeling i'm missing more 08:29:43 especially that D5.0 D-1.1+(5(+:@ line 08:29:48 it's supposed to be a nostalgia hybrid yes 08:29:57 Line 18 must be an ed reference. 08:30:16 http://codepad.org/OASg3VqQ <- that's MATH.LIB btw 08:30:20 not much in there yet though :) 08:38:44 [wiki] [[Taworvor]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42182&oldid=40160 * 160.85.232.153 * (-423) 08:40:30 [wiki] [[Taworvor]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42183&oldid=42182 * 160.85.232.153 * (+320) /* Example */ 08:50:13 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:50:59 -!- L8D has joined. 08:54:01 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:03:20 -!- zadock has joined. 09:15:29 oerjan: D is just the prefix for doubles. 09:15:35 which is required :) 09:16:02 ok 09:17:49 oerjan, I need to get that bot I was writing in Agda working 09:17:54 + is addition, or concat for lists. 09:17:54 ? 09:18:01 ( takes an element and puts it into a list 09:18:01 +help 09:18:01 ? 09:18:02 No such variable takes 09:18:08 :D 09:18:14 : is revrse for list 09:18:20 and @ is print 09:19:05 +,p 09:19:05 lighter 09:19:18 +c 09:19:24 +,p 09:19:28 +. 09:19:36 hm... 09:19:39 +,p 09:19:39 ,p 09:19:54 +%d 09:19:57 +,p 09:19:57 ? 09:20:03 +i 09:20:06 heavier 09:20:07 . 09:20:08 +,p 09:20:23 +%p 09:20:28 +1p 09:20:37 oh duh 09:20:38 +. 09:20:42 +%d 09:20:43 +i 09:20:46 +heavier 09:20:48 +. 09:20:50 +%p 09:20:50 heavier 09:25:11 -!- qwertyo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:31:17 but this time not that many builtin as burlesque ;) 09:31:35 because I want people to be able to write interpreters/compilers for it :) 09:31:47 int-e: looks like gil is finally showing up 09:33:00 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:43:50 Who wants to hear a useless fact? 09:44:05 yay! 09:44:45 There are 8 different pedestrian bridges in the British Isles called the Millennium Bridge 09:45:49 clearly that's because of too many overlapping timelines 09:46:02 i suggesting calling a Doctor 09:58:34 [wiki] [[Taworvor]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42184&oldid=42183 * 160.85.232.153 * (+114) /* Language Reference */ + draft. 09:59:05 so. 09:59:12 started working on the ESOSC draft for it :D 10:05:30 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:05:32 -!- CADD has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:06:23 -!- qwertyo has joined. 10:16:05 Taneb, nortti: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Taworvor#Language_Reference 10:16:09 no hurry though :) 10:20:31 -!- L8D has joined. 10:21:40 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Vriskanon * New user account 10:23:37 -!- boily has joined. 10:24:56 -!- shikhin has joined. 10:27:27 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 10:31:15 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:43:25 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:46:32 -!- L8D has joined. 11:25:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TWIN CHICKEN). 11:32:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:41:05 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:43:28 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 11:49:17 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 11:55:14 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:55:53 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42185 * Vriskanon * (+6129) Rough tutorial and example code for the Programming Language "Duck Duck Goose" 11:56:37 mroman: what is the meaning of nss? afaiu it is one char that is not ^, then whiespace? 11:57:47 [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42186&oldid=42170 * Vriskanon * (+22) /* D */ 12:00:41 nortti: True. 12:00:44 That's an error. 12:01:30 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42187&oldid=42185 * Vriskanon * (+302) 12:01:37 I think that should've been nss = { n }, ss; 12:02:07 or even just { n } 12:02:41 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42188&oldid=42187 * Vriskanon * (+11) 12:03:10 hm 12:03:14 nss = n, { n }, ss; 12:03:30 but the ss can be dropped 12:03:31 -!- cpressey has joined. 12:03:33 n includes spaces anyway 12:08:18 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42189&oldid=42188 * Vriskanon * (+40) Included credit where it's due 12:08:31 lambdabot: give me my messages 12:11:06 https://github.com/FMNSSun/Taworvor/blob/master/TESTS.PROG should cover pretty much everything now. 12:11:10 except I/O stuff. 12:11:21 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42190&oldid=42189 * 91.231.90.102 * (+7) He wants me to put his surname on 12:12:49 nortti: nss should eat everything between e.g. ^DESC and ^IS 12:12:57 so ^DESC(.*)^ 12:13:02 ah 12:13:15 @tell oerjan so there's more than one ring over the rationals; that's what i suspected/all i wanted to know. thanks. 12:13:16 Consider it noted. 12:13:21 so nss = n, { n }; should do that 12:14:07 although I think we could go with nss = { n } even 12:14:17 makes no sense to force one character DESCs :D 12:15:34 k. pushed with nss = { n}; 12:19:37 `` { echo 'elliott ' ; printf '%s\n' {a..z} ; } > random_elliott; shuf --random-source /dev/zero random_elliott | tr -d '\n' 12:19:39 elliott abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz 12:23:11 -!- qwertyo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:27:46 @tell oerjan in your monad-over-finite-lists, is that "finite and fixed length" or "finite but unbounded length"? because if the latter, that would count, in strict/eager functional programming (I don't see why not anyway) 12:27:46 Consider it noted. 12:30:07 not sure how "proof that there is only one (or none) possible algebraic structure y of Y over set X" proofs generally go, if it all. quantifying over operations, nasty business 12:36:01 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:42:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:47:35 especially when X is infinite. if X is finite, you can probably enumerate the possibilities. e.g. the boolean ring, I wouldn't be surprised if it was unique 12:48:14 or maybe it and a topsy-turvy dual of it where true is false and false is true 13:00:26 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:02:58 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:19:09 -!- L8D has joined. 13:34:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:39:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:42:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:46:45 ok n/m "the boolean ring", doesn't mean what i thought it meant. instead, "the possible rings over the set {0, 1}". 13:55:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:55:57 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:05:55 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:09:44 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:11:01 cpressey, does the ring's 0 have to be 0? 14:14:18 the ring's 0 has to satisfy 0*x = 0 and 0+x = x, for all x, i believe. (i guess "be zero" is kind of a fuzzy way of saying just that :) 14:15:02 I mean, does it have to be the one you have assigned the symbol "0" to when defining the set {0,1}? 14:19:17 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 14:19:37 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 14:19:39 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 14:25:53 Taneb: no. this would apply equally to any two-element set. 14:26:01 Ah :) 14:35:42 searching for "ring with two elements" gets lots of hits saying "all rings with two elements are isomorphic" and "there is one ring with two elements" (in which i imagine is implied "up to isomorphism") 14:36:17 but i have yet to see anything saying "every set with 2 elements has exactly two rings" 14:36:45 because ring theorists don't care about the concrete bits. they care about the isomorphisms 14:41:28 this whole thing may encourage me to learn to use quickcheck 14:41:38 as a way to search for counterexamples 14:56:42 [wiki] [[Talk:JSFuck]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42191 * Esowiki201529A * (+41) Created page with "new Array().filter(callbackfn[, thisArg])" 14:57:34 but of course, because the concrete bits are boring 14:57:38 fwiw http://mroman.ch/burlesque/lref.html is back online. 14:58:02 you take the symmetry group of the set, mod out by the automorphisms of the ring, and then you get all the different rings on the set 15:01:33 simple like monoids 15:02:49 -!- L8D has joined. 15:07:22 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:07:55 -!- L8D has joined. 15:08:05 mitchs: https://github.com/FMNSSun/Burlesque 15:09:25 However, I can see 47 new built-ins that were added (but are not yet on anagol) and are utterly not documented at all 15:10:36 :o 15:11:52 https://github.com/FMNSSun/Burlesque/blob/master/Burlesque/Eval.hs#L532 15:11:57 built-ins after L532 are new 15:12:10 and not documented, not on anagol. 15:13:34 fyi i have a few more ones that i want to work on in whitespace, and after that i'll try to get better at burlesque 15:13:49 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 15:13:56 idk how i'll do with it, there are a lot of built ins and i'm only superficially familiar with haskell 15:14:15 yeah... :) 15:14:50 coppro: my greater point with all this (if you care) is that the concrete bits are boring to mathematicians (as they should be) but not to programmers (who, alas, must get their hands dirty) 15:15:37 fair 15:21:53 coppro: also, I'm interested to know if "the list monad" means "the usual list monad" or "the unique list monad" -- in case you care about that 15:22:23 I have yet to see examples of other list monads; I have yet to see a proof that there are no others 15:29:36 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:33:32 -!- L8D has joined. 15:59:14 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:59:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:08:11 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:08:24 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:23:21 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:29:17 -!- L8D has joined. 16:35:17 what's this new paper about in-memory vs. disk 16:35:20 I mean 16:35:39 using += to concat strings in Java is stupid as hell from the start. 16:36:53 and what does it have to do with computing? 16:40:37 also 16:40:38 flushing 16:40:51 does not block until all data is written out, does it? 16:41:02 I thought it just means "well... the OS has it now" 16:41:09 doesn't mean that it's on disk actually just yet. 16:43:39 also.. if the computation is concatenation 16:43:47 then to get the result you'd have to read it back into memory? 16:44:04 which probably works faster because what you just have written out is still in some memory buffer so the disk isn't even actually used? 16:44:47 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:44:53 given that you just want it to have concatenated on file then yes, probably just writing it has less overhead than concating it in memory first 16:45:11 also... if you write every piece immediately to file you'll probably have a better memory footprint as well. 16:47:00 but... essentially it means that doing a shitload of memcpy because you have to realloc and memcpy all the time because strings are imutable I guess isn't very fast anyway 16:47:25 I want the same benchmark with linked strings! 16:47:38 anyway it's a stupid benchmark. 16:48:14 flushing... need not block until all data is written out afaiu; that's fsync's job, isn't it? 16:49:07 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:49:42 I thought flush just means that you flushed your "internal buffer" and have given all the data to the OS somehow 16:49:50 but it might still be in a write buffer of the OS 16:50:09 "We also see that immutable strings are not inherently a problem, as evidenced by Python’s much better performance with the modified code. 16:50:12 " 16:50:14 ^- that's just plain bullshit? 16:50:26 Note that fflush() only flushes the user-space buffers provided by the C library. To ensure that the data is 16:50:27 If you want to do concatenation then immutable strings ARE the problem. 16:50:29 physically stored on disk the kernel buffers must be flushed too, for example, with sync(2) or fsync(2). 16:50:36 excuse the indent, but, yeah 16:50:50 (from `man fflush`) 16:51:20 "Java performance numbers did not change when the concatenation order was reversed in the code in Appendix 1. However, using a mutable data type such as StringBuilder or StringBuffer dramatically improved the results." 16:51:35 -!- heroux has joined. 16:51:37 pretty obvious. 16:51:37 umm 16:51:44 That's what StringBuilders are for :D 16:51:56 cpressey: Did you read the paper? 16:52:04 a paper that says that immutable strings are not the problem, then describes improvement when using mutable strings ok 16:52:11 no, i don't even know what this is 16:52:14 They do string concatenation and measure how long it takes 16:52:17 not sure i want to know, frankly 16:52:25 then instead of string concatenation they just write it to file 16:52:26 like 16:52:27 uhm 16:52:33 loop: string += someData 16:52:34 vs 16:52:41 loop: fwrite(fhandle, someData) 16:52:56 fantastic, let's abuse the file buffers as string buffers 16:53:03 they just do repeated string concatenations 16:53:15 cpressey: they don't read the file back anyway 16:53:27 mroman: where did you find this thing? 16:53:30 the paper, i mean 16:53:41 http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1503/1503.02678.pdf 16:54:02 arxiv gonna arxiv 16:54:08 I'm no IT expert 16:54:17 but I call TOTAL ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT on this paper. 16:55:01 well, you know what they *don't* say... "Publish non-bullshit or perish." 16:56:26 It was linked on slashdot 16:56:32 and the comments there pretty much support my view :D 16:57:43 and it was written by a biology guy? 16:57:46 wtf 16:58:28 "In this paper we use code inspired by real, production software" yeah right... 16:58:36 "naive string concatenation is a quadratic time operation" 16:59:21 also 16:59:26 there are so many details missing 16:59:34 what type of RAM, what type of Disk was used 16:59:40 what processor 17:00:01 "Java 8 was used to compile the test code 17:00:03 " 17:00:06 Java 8 can compile things? 17:01:29 "In the examples of inefficient code that inspired this paper, and we suspect is many other similar cases, the developers have done what they have been trained to do, carefully reducing disk access, but the approach is obviously failing." 17:01:52 ... 17:01:52 mroman: It doesn't matter. An O(n^2) algorithm will be slower than an O(n) one if you pick n large enough. 17:02:07 But from that perspective, you can condens the "paper" into one paragraph. 17:02:12 *condense 17:02:21 what the hell does this have to do with web applications o_O 17:02:33 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 17:02:35 I'm not going to write to a temp file and then read it for string concatenation o_O 17:02:39 i mean 17:02:47 it probably won't even spin up the disk due to buffers 17:02:49 but... 17:02:53 still 17:03:03 A lot, assembling strings by concatenating small parts is *very* common. 17:03:41 And streaming helps to relieve some memory pressure (now there would be another paragraph for the "paper", but they do not touch upon that part of the problem). 17:04:07 small string concat is indeed very common yes 17:04:17 but since you need to deliver the "end result" to the client 17:04:28 Don't get me wrong, it's an awful paper all around. It's overselling a trivial problem and to top it off, it's drawing the wrong conclusions. 17:04:34 I mean 17:04:40 php already does streaming anyway? 17:04:42 heh. slashdot still exists? 17:04:43 I think 17:05:01 of course just writing to a network socket is probably better than concating it in memory and then write it to the socket 17:05:22 especially using immutable strings 17:05:38 but they don't even get to that point 17:06:07 but but but StringBuilder 17:06:20 it's not like the java architects haven't thought about this problem 17:06:45 tl;dr i share your facepalm mroman 17:07:06 I think we all agree on that. 17:08:18 hm. 17:08:19 (I'm just defending the point that the observed problem is real.) 17:08:21 Seems php doesn't do streaming? 17:08:39 there's ob_flush at least hm. 17:08:45 (I don't know PHP at all) 17:09:16 "Why do you want to use a StringBuilder? Strings in php are mutable. Therefore performance is not an issue." - because mutability solves all performance issues! 17:10:40 php has mutable strings? 17:14:46 You sound surprised, don't youb know that PHP implements all bad ideas found in other programming languages ;) 17:17:45 well 17:17:53 I'm surprised you can publish something like this :) 17:18:35 and what I know about PHP is that uhm... 17:18:40 it has these weird things like register_globals? 17:18:43 magic_quotes 17:18:44 and 17:19:18 which I think works like that that it automatically manipulates the input from the user 17:19:33 so you don't get the actual user input 17:19:47 in php, == isn't transitive 17:19:48 and then doing some string concat for buildin an SQL query 17:19:49 wtf. They're using concatString = addString + concatString ....... 17:20:02 int-e: of course! 17:20:13 You have to check if a = a + b is faster than a = b + a or not 17:20:18 but then their "disk writing" code is not even equivalent. 17:20:22 mroman: well, it is! 17:20:24 e.g. false == 0 && 0 == "0" && false != "0" 17:20:44 looks like javascript 17:20:46 =,==,=== 17:20:52 My newest esolang will have ==== 17:21:02 great! 17:21:06 Yes. 17:21:11 "0" == 0 will be true 17:21:20 because == tries some automatic conversions 17:21:28 "0" === 0 will be false because not same type 17:21:33 0 === 0 is obviously true 17:21:40 but!!! 17:21:51 $a = 0; $b = 0; $a === $b; will be true 17:21:58 however, $a ==== $b; won't 17:22:09 more equal signs should mean that it tries harder to make things equal, so that e.g. 0 ================== 1 17:22:17 because ==== checks if both are the same variables! 17:22:18 so 17:22:23 $a ==== $a is in fact true 17:22:24 mroman: how is thaz any useful? 17:22:30 but $a ==== $b is not 17:22:41 myname: well it's probably useful when call by reference is used? 17:22:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:22:44 like uhm 17:22:52 func foo($a, $b) { return $a ==== $b; } 17:23:08 foo($a, $a); will be true but foo($a, $b); won't? 17:23:23 but in foo they are different variable 17:23:29 yeah 17:23:33 but the same reference! 17:23:40 so ==== would essentially compare references 17:24:02 like java's == does 17:24:24 i thought about using = as a unary symbol and making prime numbers variables 17:24:45 and! 17:24:47 ===== 17:24:57 like ======7 would set the var 5 to the value 7 17:24:59 only compares constants 17:25:30 or literals 17:25:30 hm 17:25:41 =======7 would compare var 5 with value 7 17:25:55 5 ==== 5 would probably not be true since it's probably treated as new Integer(5) == new Integer(5)? 17:26:03 whatever 17:26:06 :p 17:26:08 I'm going home. 17:27:17 Do NOT try to reason about PHP. 17:27:26 Just, NO. 17:29:12 next you'll tell us not to do surgery with a tea spoon 17:51:54 i'm only trying to save your souls 17:53:11 -!- Koen_ has joined. 18:17:10 -!- zadock has joined. 18:26:22 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 18:43:34 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:56:50 php is basically built so that copypaste programs can work 19:03:00 -!- qlkzy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:05:58 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:11:55 -!- dianne has joined. 19:13:09 -!- qlkzy has joined. 19:14:24 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:14:41 -!- elliott has joined. 19:15:04 -!- elliott has changed nick to Guest90077. 19:22:01 @metar LOWI 19:22:02 LOWI 251850Z VRB02KT 9999 FEW050 SCT065 BKN080 11/04 Q1001 NOSIG 19:22:16 -!- Guest90077 has quit (Changing host). 19:22:16 -!- Guest90077 has joined. 19:22:20 -!- Guest90077 has changed nick to elliott. 19:23:03 izabera: I was about to ask what the intended purpose of random_elliott was 19:23:11 it was very confusing thanks to just having woken up 19:24:16 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:28:20 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 19:30:30 yes! 19:30:35 i wanted to confuse you 19:34:32 you said that with the right random source you could use shuf just like cat 19:35:12 ` echo 123 | sort | shuf | cat | tac 19:35:13 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 19:35:15 `` echo 123 | sort | shuf | cat | tac 19:35:16 123 19:38:31 izabera: yeah, I realised that pretty quickly, hehe 19:38:47 izabera: I was just like "is this a command to print random letters at me? what is this for? why me? help?" 19:38:51 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 19:52:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:54:22 @messages- 19:54:22 cpressey said 7h 41m 6s ago: so there's more than one ring over the rationals; that's what i suspected/all i wanted to know. thanks. 19:54:23 cpressey said 7h 26m 36s ago: in your monad-over-finite-lists, is that "finite and fixed length" or "finite but unbounded length"? because if the latter, that would count, in strict/eager functional programming (I don't see why not anyway) 19:55:00 @tell cpressey finite but unbounded length, is the intention. 19:55:00 Consider it noted. 19:59:11 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:05:16 oerjan: are you sure it's a monad btw? 20:05:20 you have a bad history with monads on [] :P 20:05:26 heh 20:06:03 i think it is a monad but who is ever sure. 20:06:16 oerjan: hmm, I wonder when Cheyenne will get around to coloring the March 4th and 13th comics... 20:06:45 the first monad law is obviously true by construction. the second is nearly obvious. 20:07:12 the third needs a bit of thinking, but i think it is true. 20:09:03 @let dbind [x] f = f x; dbind l f | all ((==1).length) l' = concat l' where l' = map f l 20:09:07 Defined. 20:10:38 @check \x f g -> (((x::[Int]) `dbind` f :: [Int]) `dbind` g :: [Int]) == x `dbind` \t -> f t `dbind` g 20:10:40 *** Failed! (after 3 tests and 4 shrinks): 20:10:40 Exception: L.hs:(157,1)-(159,20): Non-exhaustive patterns in function dbind ... 20:10:48 oops 20:10:54 @undef 20:11:15 @undef 20:11:16 Undefined. 20:11:19 @let dbind [x] f = f x; dbind l f | all ((==1).length) l' = concat l' | otherwise = [] where l' = map f l 20:11:22 Defined. 20:11:26 @check \x f g -> (((x::[Int]) `dbind` f :: [Int]) `dbind` g :: [Int]) == x `dbind` \t -> f t `dbind` g 20:11:28 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 20:11:34 looks good 20:12:22 int-e: if it's not done already it'll probably be "whenever" up until actual printed version 20:13:42 @check \x -> ((x::[Int]) `dbind` return) == x 20:13:44 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 20:15:01 @tell cpressey Checked my monad with @check hth 20:15:02 Consider it noted. 20:16:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:17:03 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: 5.0.1? 5.0.1!). 20:19:32 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 20:19:49 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:19:52 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 20:20:35 int-e: is it getting 7.10 now? 20:20:42 no 20:21:02 aww 20:21:06 I'm waiting for the official release. 20:21:35 -!- lambdabot has joined. 20:21:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:24:43 int-e: hm, do you maintain lambdabot now? 20:24:46 the source code 20:24:56 mostly? 20:25:02 heh 20:26:19 @version 20:26:19 lambdabot 5.0.1 20:26:19 git clone https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot 20:40:43 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:05:04 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:17:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:18:28 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:39:47 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42192&oldid=42190 * 81.102.250.85 * (+67) inspiration 21:42:28 -!- Lymia has joined. 21:45:16 elliott, there? 21:45:34 no. hi 21:46:00 I'm here, but not elliott (as opposed to elliott, who is elliott but not here) 21:46:14 I have no idea if this exists or not... Something like vnc that uses the GPU on the server to render and then compresses the data for reasonable transfer speed, the one you mentioned the other day didn't do OpenGL stuff did it? 21:46:29 xpra 21:46:36 I think it does OpenGL? 21:46:40 Ah nice 21:46:43 I don't know. it's good, anyway. 21:46:45 Then this might be salvagble 21:46:47 something like that, you'd /expect/ it to use OpenGL 21:46:55 you can also adjust it to use lossless compression or lossy H.264 or whatever 21:46:57 it's pretty flexible 21:47:06 and it does rootless too 21:47:09 it's really nice 21:47:15 I wouldn't, like, watch youtube videos with it, though. 21:47:19 not sure how many servers have working DirectX, and there currently are no other graphics APIs that are nearly as popular 21:47:33 well youtube is sending H.264 or WebM anyway 21:47:47 so decoding and re-encoding the video could only make things worse 21:48:02 ais523, well I want it to reasonably be able to run a program using OpenGL, the client I'm connecting from has old old intel graphics 21:48:15 The desktop I want to remote to has a reasonable AMD GPU 21:49:15 And I want to use some programs that are GPU heavy (as in GPGPU with OpenCL + OpenGL visualization) 21:50:07 Though it appears debian has a super old xpra version 21:50:08 oh wlel 21:50:09 well* 21:50:20 Oh no, there is a backports 21:50:36 -!- gde33 has joined. 21:50:39 which is newer than the version I want to connect from, on an ubuntu laptop 21:56:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:58:08 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42193&oldid=42192 * Vriskanon * (+407) Moved the Tutorial/List_of_Instructions to a table 21:58:11 -!- heroux has joined. 21:59:45 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42194&oldid=42193 * Vriskanon * (-82) Fixed 10 Ducks (Loop Ends) 22:00:43 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42195&oldid=42194 * Vriskanon * (+0) Put a Y in the 10 Ducks row where N should have been. 22:03:29 Yeah that didn't work, time to try to find compatible versions 22:03:59 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42196&oldid=42195 * Vriskanon * (+0) 22:04:43 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:04:56 elliott, yep, once you install exactly the same version on both sides, it works 22:05:09 of xpra? yeah 22:09:49 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 22:09:58 -!- GeekDude has joined. 22:11:09 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42197&oldid=42196 * Vriskanon * (+317) More Clear Sections 22:11:15 $ glxgears 22:11:15 X Error of failed request: BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation) 22:11:15 Major opcode of failed request: 135 (GLX) 22:11:15 Minor opcode of failed request: 19 (X_GLXQueryServerString) 22:11:15 Serial number of failed request: 12 22:11:16 Current serial number in output stream: 12 22:11:18 elliott, well, crap 22:11:32 It works fine for none opengl stuff though 22:11:36 I guess you can use VNC? 22:11:47 x11vnc might be worth a try 22:11:51 How do I enable OpenGL or other X11 extensions on the server? 22:11:51 Please see Xdummy, for acceleration see ​virtualgl 22:11:56 Ah 22:11:58 https://www.xpra.org/trac/wiki/Xdummy http://www.virtualgl.org/ 22:12:02 I'll look into that 22:12:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:12:07 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 22:12:23 The best way to deal with this is to use ​VirtualGL to take advantage of the OpenGL acceleration provided by the graphics card, just run: vglrun yourapplication. 22:13:00 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42198&oldid=42197 * Vriskanon * (+62) 22:13:01 elliott, as long as it is the server that is doing the rendering I'm happy 22:13:02 http://www.virtualgl.org/About/Introduction yeah 22:13:04 this looks like what you want 22:13:24 elliott, because the client can't do opengl for shit. It is a core 2 duo and intel graphics 22:14:31 [wiki] [[User:Vriskanon]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42199 * Vriskanon * (+134) Who is Vriskanon 22:15:12 elliott, need to build it, doesn't appear to be packaged... And yeah 22:16:17 -!- L8D has joined. 22:16:25 -!- L8D has left. 22:25:42 @tell int-e it seems like the fix to Typeable introduced the new bug that is currently holding up ghc :P https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/ghc-devs/2015-March/008570.html 22:25:42 Consider it noted. 22:27:38 I'm not surprised 22:29:08 well there's also a haddock problem. and spj just went on vacation. 22:34:42 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:37:23 elliott, hm I can't get virtualgl to work inside xpra, though it does work natively on the machine 22:37:42 maybe run it outside 22:37:45 like virtualgl xpra ... 22:37:46 uh maybe not 22:37:47 but like 22:37:52 virtualgl xpra-server-i-forget-how-you-start-it ... 22:37:59 or xpra --xpra-server-thing=virtualgl blahhh idk 22:38:01 "something like that" 22:38:06 if you google xpra virtualgl there's probably something 22:38:26 https://www.xpra.org/trac/ticket/320 22:38:55 https://www.xpra.org/trac/wiki/Xdummy might help too 22:41:04 I read both of those already :/ 22:41:28 "Proprietary drivers often install their own copy of libGL which conflicts with the use of software GL rendering. You cannot use this GL library to render directly on Xdummy (or Xvfb). 22:41:28 The best way to deal with this is to use ​VirtualGL to take advantage of the OpenGL acceleration provided by the graphics card, just run: vglrun yourapplication." 22:41:41 The former is the case, but the latter should deal with this I thought? 22:41:52 well, how are you actually doing it 22:41:56 like where are you putting vglrun 22:42:28 in an xterm opened over xpra I'm trying to run vglrun glxgears (as a test) 22:42:43 I figure that getting glxgears to work should be the most basic step 22:42:52 well, idk. can't really debug from "doesn't work" 22:42:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:42:57 but maybe you need to do the "+extension GLX +extension RANDR +extension RENDER" thing 22:43:00 from that wiki page 22:43:46 xvfb=Xorg -dpi 96 -noreset -nolisten tcp +extension GLX +extension RANDR +extension RENDER -logfile ${HOME}/.xpra/Xorg.${DISPLAY}.log -config /etc/xpra/xorg.conf 22:43:52 yeah it is already there, checked that 22:43:58 That is the default setup 22:44:13 I dunno, you haven't even told me the error or anything :p I'm no expert though 22:44:16 I'd just dig in logs and stuff 22:44:17 and try random things 22:44:34 and try vglrun wrapping different things 22:44:51 Yeah tried glxinfo too, no luck 22:44:54 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:44:57 Right, bug 320 does seem a bit more relevant 22:45:13 It mentions fglrx issues... 22:47:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:48:18 elliott, might be worth trying something like turbovnc + virtualgl though 22:51:02 -!- GeekDude has joined. 22:52:16 oerjan: #10176 is the bug (hmm, and the fix doesn't touch any of the code that was changed by the Typeable patch, isn't that fun.) I hear (on #ghc) that Austin is struggling with the haddock thing. 22:54:25 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 22:55:23 mhm 22:58:07 good morning 23:06:54 -!- Koen_ has joined. 23:11:37 Have you created any RDF namespaces or any XML namespaces or any UUIDs? 23:17:54 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:21:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:22:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:38:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:38:12 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:38:25 `uuidgen 23:38:27 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: uuidgen: not found 23:39:03 `cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/uuid 23:39:04 a8ce6013-1813-47c6-9f42-56be50696a28 23:39:21 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:39:25 is that what you were looking for? it's a kernelspace utility nowadays, not userspace, for some reason 23:39:46 Why is it kernelspace utility now? 23:40:07 I don't know 23:40:20 I wrote my own version 1 UUID generator, but I want to know if you have used UUID you make up by yourself 23:43:27 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 23:51:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 23:53:30 ais523: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5873099/is-proc-sys-kernel-random-uuid-strong-keying-material 23:53:41 oh, hmm 23:53:47 okay so it's not one of the bad UUID formats 23:53:55 haha, people are /seeding/ with that? :-) 23:54:00 anyway I don't think uuidgen stopped existing or anything... 23:54:56 but yes, if you're seeding, use /dev/random or /dev/urandom depending on why you're seeding 23:55:01 it is a bit weird that the UUID logic is in kernelspace but I guess it's trivial enough 23:55:01 -!- zadock has joined. 23:55:02 that's what they're /for/ 23:55:05 it's just like /dev/urandom really 23:55:11 bu with formatting crap on top of it 23:55:23 /dev/urandom is kernelspace for a good reason, though 23:55:31 I don't think it's possible to implement in userspace 23:55:37 yeah 23:55:41 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:55:43 for the reason that /dev/random might have zero entropy the first time you try to access urandom1) 23:55:46 *urandom(1) 23:57:47 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 23:58:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:58:09 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 23:58:20 hmm, I should probably change aimake's GUID generation to use version 3 or 5 GUIDs 23:58:57 because atm it's basically just using a truncated hash as the entire GUID, relying on the chance of collisions being basically 0 for uniqueness 2015-03-26: 00:01:19 I'd better do that before NH4 is released 00:09:50 GUID4 is the only one people actually use, I think... 00:10:09 I forget what 3 and 5 are, though. 00:10:24 I don't think it's a "GUID4" unless you're using (pseudo)random bits, though. 00:10:30 (okay, a hash is like a PRNG with a very bad seed, or something.) 00:29:55 elliott: 3 and 5 are the hash-based ones 00:30:02 ah 00:30:14 MD5 and SHA1 respectively 00:30:33 -!- Lymee has joined. 00:30:38 :/ 00:30:41 not great 00:30:53 indeed 00:31:12 I used to use MD5 because it was the only hashing algorithm that worked with the oldest Perl version I supported 00:31:24 in the end, I decided that that was just too awful, and dropped support for that version 00:31:40 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:42:29 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 00:50:43 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:52:24 aimake? 00:53:41 -!- Lymee has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:03:37 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 01:04:35 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 01:04:39 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:06:57 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:08:07 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:12:31 -!- goofygoobers has joined. 01:12:36 Hi 01:12:50 elliott: Hello 01:33:58 -!- Lymia has joined. 01:34:16 Hi Lymia 01:55:34 -!- Tritonio has joined. 01:56:26 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:57:10 Tritonio: Hi 01:58:22 hi goofygoobers 01:59:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 02:11:46 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 02:15:06 -!- adu_ has joined. 02:16:15 -!- not^v has joined. 02:20:30 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host). 02:20:30 -!- GeekDude has joined. 02:25:20 -!- CADD has joined. 02:28:06 HI 02:37:02 GOOFY GOOBERS 02:38:32 -!- goofygoobers has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:50:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:50:21 -!- tromp__ has joined. 02:50:43 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 02:50:43 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:51:02 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:53:40 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:55:49 -!- adu_ has changed nick to adu. 03:16:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:31:17 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number). 03:31:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 03:55:14 -!- graue has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:55:55 -!- graue has joined. 04:05:10 -!- vodkode has joined. 04:09:41 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:13:22 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 04:16:33 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 04:22:32 -!- augur has joined. 04:34:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:00:33 -!- bb010g has joined. 05:09:36 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:16:54 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:17:20 -!- ^v has joined. 05:35:57 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:58:22 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 06:10:19 -!- vodkode has joined. 06:31:45 -!- v4s has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:33:05 -!- v4s has joined. 06:54:02 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42200&oldid=42198 * 81.102.250.85 * (+112) /* Duck Inputs */ Loop Ends 06:58:12 -!- vodkode has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:31:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:19:06 -!- xxxxyz has joined. 08:19:49 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42201&oldid=42200 * 91.231.90.102 * (+0) /* How To Use */ Fixed /n. 08:19:53 -!- xxxxyz has quit (Quit: xxxxyz). 08:43:37 duck duck goose 09:00:37 What's this religious freedom bill? 09:00:42 I can't seem to find the full text. 09:06:08 ah. Senate Bill 101 09:06:09 got it. 09:10:12 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:19:11 [wiki] [[~ATH]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42202&oldid=42126 * Vriskanon * (+155) /* Examples */ Added Sollux's program to examples 09:35:33 -!- hjulle has joined. 09:42:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:47:11 [wiki] [[User:Vriskanon]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42203&oldid=42199 * Vriskanon * (+92) /* Vriskanon */ 09:47:20 [wiki] [[~ATH]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42204&oldid=42202 * Vriskanon * (+2158) Extrapolated a Tutorial 09:51:20 [wiki] [[~ATH]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42205&oldid=42204 * Vriskanon * (+16) /* Examples */ Changed Sollux program to be more accurate 09:58:46 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:25:40 -!- boily has joined. 10:59:11 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 10:59:11 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:59:17 -!- Patashu_ has changed nick to Patashu. 11:13:04 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 11:14:12 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:15:50 -!- Gregor` has joined. 11:15:52 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:16:32 -!- Gregor` has changed nick to Guest99429. 11:16:47 -!- boily_ has joined. 11:17:19 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 11:18:26 -!- olsner_ has joined. 11:21:07 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 11:21:57 -!- ski_ has joined. 11:22:55 -!- tromp__ has quit (*.net *.split). 11:22:56 -!- ski has quit (*.net *.split). 11:22:56 -!- int-e has quit (*.net *.split). 11:22:56 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 11:22:57 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 11:22:57 -!- zemhill_ has quit (*.net *.split). 11:22:57 -!- jameseb has quit (*.net *.split). 11:23:27 -!- b_jonas_ has joined. 11:24:11 -!- boily_ has quit (Quit: TRANSLUCENT CHICKEN). 11:25:09 [wiki] [[~ATH]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42206&oldid=42205 * Vriskanon * (+1938) Added Bifurcation to the tutorial 11:26:29 -!- tromp_ has joined. 11:27:10 -!- fungot has joined. 11:27:10 -!- zemhill_ has joined. 11:27:10 -!- jameseb has joined. 11:28:19 -!- boily has quit (*.net *.split). 11:28:19 -!- oerjan has quit (*.net *.split). 11:28:21 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 11:28:22 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 11:28:23 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 11:28:24 -!- graue has quit (*.net *.split). 11:28:25 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 11:28:25 -!- mroman has quit (*.net *.split). 11:28:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 11:28:26 -!- erdic has quit (*.net *.split). 11:28:27 -!- vifino has quit (*.net *.split). 11:28:28 -!- relrod has quit (*.net *.split). 11:28:28 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 11:31:39 -!- oerjan_ has joined. 11:31:39 -!- int-e_ has joined. 11:31:39 -!- graue has joined. 11:31:39 -!- lambdabot has joined. 11:31:39 -!- mroman has joined. 11:31:39 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:31:39 -!- erdic has joined. 11:31:39 -!- vifino has joined. 11:31:39 -!- relrod has joined. 11:31:39 -!- fizzie has joined. 11:39:41 -!- oerjan_ has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 11:42:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:43:18 splitty network :( 11:44:48 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:47:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:49:56 -!- Guest99429 has changed nick to Gregor. 11:50:26 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Guest9353. 11:56:15 fungot, do you like murder mysteries? 11:56:15 b_jonas_: no, i mean 11:56:20 -!- b_jonas_ has changed nick to b_jonas. 11:58:30 fungot is back? 11:58:30 mroman: does the small print is meant to make liftm f x a _function_. you can't. 11:59:03 ^help 11:59:03 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 12:17:49 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:24:30 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 12:44:36 -!- int-e_ has changed nick to int-e. 12:51:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:09:56 what was that other language beside rust? 13:15:37 nvm i'll learn Rust next. 13:23:19 -!- vodkode has joined. 13:30:37 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:31:02 -!- ^v has joined. 13:37:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:46:08 mroman: Nim 13:46:10 ? 13:46:39 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 13:51:01 hm. 13:51:02 no. 13:52:34 fungot, can you tell me about the conditional branch prediction and branch target prediction in modern CPUs? 13:52:35 b_jonas: does formal semantics really matter? 13:53:01 fungot: yes, it certainly does in this channel, for we want to abuse it 13:53:01 b_jonas: to make it reality =d can you write anywhere?' 13:53:04 hmm, I could easily interpret that line as being from someone other than fungot 13:53:04 ais523: what is scan and are they the same? http://list.cs.brown.edu/ pipermail/ gambit-list/ 2006-january/ 000540.html how'd you go about implementing an object system 13:53:20 ais523: well, he does steal lines of others 13:53:22 b_jonas: do you consider Pure BF an abuse of formal semantics? 13:53:52 ais523: um, dunno 13:54:54 oh, I know what I wanted to ask you 14:01:28 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:20:26 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:28:41 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:28:57 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 14:33:43 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:34:18 -!- ski_ has changed nick to ski. 14:36:10 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 14:37:05 [wiki] [[Secretary]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42207&oldid=40984 * Vriskanon * (+8) Fixed Wingpad 14:47:28 [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42208&oldid=42186 * Vriskanon * (+11) /* Non-alphabetic */ Added TillDeath 14:49:11 [wiki] [[Hashes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42209&oldid=39481 * Vriskanon * (+12) Fixed Name 14:50:28 [wiki] [[Huh?]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42210&oldid=32607 * Vriskanon * (+0) Fixed Name 14:50:52 [wiki] [[Huh?]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42211&oldid=42210 * Vriskanon * (-2) 14:52:08 [wiki] [[Huh?++]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42212&oldid=38270 * Vriskanon * (-7) Fixed more names. 14:55:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:01:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:18:32 fungot: How you been? 15:18:32 mroman: i just got up for a while before i can get away with optimizing whole programs to nothing. 15:19:15 fungot: to nothing? 15:19:15 mroman: it can generate fortran code in any language other than english? dictionary doesn't know it! bwhaha! i'm just too fnord about it when scheme48 1.0 is in much more subtle. 15:19:35 fungot: I'm so in subtle myself. 15:19:35 mroman: a preprocessor for logic programming in haskell 15:20:05 fungot: You should learn prolog. 15:20:06 mroman: i'm workin' on it and i rewrite it for you? it tends to restart itself, and i'd like it 15:20:22 Gee thanks. But you don't need to rewrite Prolog just for me <3 15:28:08 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:37:49 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:48:02 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:48:53 -!- vodkode has joined. 15:55:29 [wiki] [[Beatnik]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42213&oldid=30345 * Marinus * (-9) fixed broken link 16:08:48 -!- cpressey has joined. 16:10:58 @oerjan 16:10:59 Unknown command, try @list 16:11:19 that's too bad, there should really be an oerjan command 16:15:59 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:45:19 -!- bb010g has joined. 17:04:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:06:28 what's the incantation to have ls show the size of a directory properly 17:07:11 depends on what you mean by "properly" 17:07:27 I mean the total size of all files inside it, plus it 17:07:55 ls can't do that because the information isn't stored anywhere, it has to be calculated and that's really timeconsuming 17:08:00 the program you probably want is called du 17:08:14 god damn it, windows shows that information 17:08:22 aaaaa 17:08:38 does du also ahow size of fiels 17:08:42 orin: Windows shows it in the GUI but takes a while to calculate it; I don't think dir (the equivalent of ls) shows it 17:08:53 you can use "du -a" to show size of files too 17:09:06 it's scary what crazy dangerous and complicated hooks some people in informatics will try to jump through for 20% performance increases 17:09:10 Windows shows it growing in the UI, with no indication of how far it's gotten yet, which is bad UX imo 17:09:13 Ubuntu does this too 17:09:22 also, you might want to use "--apparent-size" if you care about the size of the files themselves, rather than the amount of disk they use u 17:09:24 *up 17:09:27 because copying Windows is always a great idea 17:09:33 or "-h" or "--si" to get the answer in sensible units 17:09:40 cpressey: it's probably the lazy impl 17:11:13 so the incantation is "du -sh --apparent-size". 17:11:42 depending on what it is you're trying to calculate, perhaps 17:11:51 it has options because people don't always use it for the same purpose 17:11:57 in particular, when I want to know the total size of a directory 17:12:04 it's normally because I want to know how much disk space it costs me 17:12:08 so I leave out --apparent-size 17:12:13 (I think "du" stands for "disk usage") 17:12:23 isn't THAT the apparent size? 17:12:30 yes, I usually say either du -a or du -s 17:12:37 sometimes with a sort after 17:13:43 orin: no, apparent size is the number of bytes you'd get if you read every byte in the file 17:13:54 which could be less than the size on disk due to metadata, padding, and the like 17:14:00 or more because the file is stored in a compressed format 17:14:18 Or sparsely. 17:14:34 that's a special case of a compressed format, IMO 17:14:45 Conceded. 17:15:04 It might be the most common case for this purpose though. 17:15:09 ais523: i ... see. ok, so the incantation to see how much free space I need on a card to put my music on it, is du -s ~/music 17:15:44 silly hashtable impl: a sparse file where addresses in your file correspond to possible keys directly 17:16:11 orin: yep, you probably want to add --si to that (rather than -h) because people size storage devices in powers of 10 rather than powers of 2 17:16:26 ais523: I've seen that done on memory with hashconsing - the address of the object is its hash value 17:16:50 which is, y'know, ... interesting 17:17:10 cpressey: how can that work? 17:17:14 presumably a lot of mmap 17:17:53 plus some trick to place your stack somewhere your hashtable won't touch 17:17:57 two identical objects can have different addresses 17:18:08 orin: not if you hashcons them :) 17:18:10 orin: not in this case! 17:18:18 cpressey: I assume all objects have to be immutable 17:18:32 ais523: my memory of it is fuzzy but I assume so too 17:18:34 and I'm not sure how you do deallocation; refcounting? 17:19:16 oh, so we are replacing addresses with hashes, not replacing hashs with addresses 17:19:28 I think it was on a 680x0 architecture fwiw. no mmap. stack is just... tucked away somewhere nice 17:19:32 orin: right 17:20:03 cpressey: mmap and friends would be helpful here because it lets your address space be larger than your physical memory 17:20:36 yes, that would remove that limitation 17:22:58 hmm... if it isn't immutable, then change to one sub-object changes the hashes of every object that points to it .: it has to be immutable 17:25:42 It also means that "does the object X exist" is a reasonable question. In C for example you'd have to iterate through memory, with hashconsig you can just use that hash 17:30:57 it is... interesting. i might try to dig up the paper (which included a bunch of stuff about trees vs hash tables for some reason) 17:31:55 teach kids to code so they can build things with love and change the world 17:32:12 (unrelated) 17:32:38 orin: there are two problems with that question 17:32:42 one is hash collisions 17:33:00 the other is, in order to be able to ask the question, you need the object in the first place and thus the object definitely does exist 17:33:22 (I found both of these problems when writing my Perl memory profiler, which had a "does this object exist" as one of its side functionalities) 17:33:42 ais523: not if the question is asked from a degug envionment? 17:33:56 orin: right, or if you're asking the question of the hash rather than of the object 17:34:04 Devel::TrackAllocations' testsuite uses it 17:43:58 -!- quintopi1 has changed nick to quintopia. 17:44:26 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 17:44:26 -!- quintopia has joined. 18:04:32 -!- GeekDude has joined. 18:07:09 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:21:15 -!- yukko has left. 18:25:20 -!- nycs has joined. 18:27:44 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:38:23 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 18:48:41 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 18:49:18 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 19:00:26 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:08:05 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 19:29:28 -!- bb010g has joined. 19:34:25 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:54:38 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:59:35 -!- Guest9353 has changed nick to Gregor. 20:04:03 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:14:01 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:14:28 -!- Lymia has joined. 20:15:50 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:24:19 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:35:16 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 20:35:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:35:22 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 21:01:48 17:17:20 ais523: i ... see. ok, so the incantation to see how much free space I need on a card to put my music on it, is du -s ~/music 21:01:53 assuming it's using the same filesystem 21:01:57 also ignoring things like deduplication etc. 21:02:23 it's one of these apparently simple questions, where the answer is complex 21:07:56 elliott: that gives a good guess, yes 21:42:28 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:04:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:13:57 -!- boily has joined. 22:14:11 bhoily 22:15:25 bonsœrjan! 22:17:52 i think i may have drifted out of overlap with cpressey's irc time again 22:19:04 yes? which means? 22:19:43 that his attempt to catch me failed 22:20:51 oh. you were trying to meet? 22:21:34 well he was, it seems 22:21:49 although he didn't seem to say why 22:22:05 something something apocalypse something fungot something. 22:22:05 boily: fizzie you got fnord?!? 22:22:18 fungot: fizzie has fnord. 22:22:18 boily: what is lambda? why isn't ( x) ( 1+ y)) please, will someone explain to me how exactly i'm going to 22:22:21 unless he _really_ wanted to use lambdabot's @oerjan command, i guess that's a remote possibility. 22:22:25 the title is showing as RIP JiAA MatouA!ek for me? 22:22:46 ais523: ping 22:22:56 orin: there are some accents 22:22:56 orin: J i r-hacek i-acute M a t o u s-hacek e k. 22:23:10 Jiří Matoušek 22:23:27 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:23:28 if that _also_ shows up broken, you need to fix your unicode. 22:23:29 orin: you should try to set your irc client to use utf-8 encoding 22:23:48 I am seeig J i Ao A~ Matou Ao upsidedown ! 22:23:58 sadly IRC doesn't have a single definite encoding, people have been known to use various single-byte national encodings on different channels just a few years ago 22:24:11 these days they seem to have converged to utf-8, at least in the parts of irc I frequent 22:24:24 orin: heed the b_jonasadvice. utf8ify your client. 22:24:35 utf-8 is definitely the recommended encoding for this channel. 22:24:36 boily: you forgot the space 22:24:43 ooh, now it's working 22:24:49 great 22:24:52 b_jonas: no I didn't :P 22:25:05 (word conflagration is a fun pastime!) 22:25:17 @oerjan what does @oerjan do? 22:25:17 Unknown command, try @list 22:25:20 possibly with fallback to something latin-1'y 22:25:32 (also, his name isn't “Jiři Matoušek” despite that I wrote that a few times by mistake) 22:25:35 boily: something evil, i assume 22:26:03 pesky long vowels 22:26:21 oerjan: makes sense. 22:26:29 pesky ř. 22:27:15 yes that is pesky 22:27:47 single-language sound. well, i'm not entirely sure whether slovakian also has it. 22:27:51 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:28:44 oerjan: yes, to an ignorant foreigner like me the “ř” is just “r” with funny spelling, not a separate sound 22:30:16 `unidecode Ẩ 22:30:18 ​[U+1EA8 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH CIRCUMFLEX AND HOOK ABOVE] 22:31:03 hm it exists in some dialects of other languages, including slovak, but the wikipedia page only list czech as having it generally 22:32:03 ꜳꜳꜳrgh! 22:32:20 oerjan: exists as in distinct from r, or as an allophone? 22:32:22 b_jonas: hm hungarians shouldn't be that ignorant hth 22:33:11 b_jonas: well in the polish and silesian entries in the table it's listed as contrasting. 22:33:40 ok 22:33:52 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_trill#Occurrence_2 22:35:13 Pharo 4 beta was recently released 22:35:26 * Sgeo_ will probably play with the final version when it comes out 22:35:50 int-e: int-hello! vocalizing your suffering in foreign languages? 22:36:15 fungot: You talking to me? 22:36:15 fizzie: but you can do about it? i thought since it was originally compiled with japanese perhaps that was his point... it's a bit cheap, relative to 22:38:22 `unidecode ꜳꜳꜳ 22:38:24 ​[U+A733 LATIN SMALL LETTER AA] [U+A733 LATIN SMALL LETTER AA] [U+A733 LATIN SMALL LETTER AA] 22:38:32 ais523: ping ← pong 22:40:36 boily: just questioning the sanity of unicode. 22:41:29 (Though there may not be anything there to question ;-) ) 22:42:45 I am sane! 22:44:16 ais523: you asked last time about the sound “gy” represents in Hungarian 22:44:20 yes 22:45:12 * Sgeo_ questions the sanity of cookies 22:45:56 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:45:58 ais523: one thing that might help is that even in English, a minority of people pronounce “new” and “during” with “ny” and “gy” sounds. this is because those words originally have a [j] sound after the consonant, and “j” has a place of articulation (tongue position) similar to “ny” and “gy” 22:46:30 so the “n” and “d” changes, just like how even in English “n” usually changes to the “ng” sound before a “g” or to an “m” sound before a “b”. 22:46:38 hmm, how close is English "j" to Hungarian "dgy" 22:46:49 (most people just pronounce those words with “n” and “d” though.) 22:47:02 ais523: those are the same 22:47:07 right 22:47:12 no wait 22:47:24 English “j” is the same as Hungarian “dzs” 22:47:27 different 22:47:28 oh right, yes 22:47:30 like in your name 22:47:33 what? 22:47:36 no, not in my name 22:47:38 the "zs" I mean 22:47:41 ah 22:47:42 you don't have a "d" 22:47:46 yes 22:47:49 I forgot "zs" was even a letter 22:48:02 “zs” is a letter even in Englihs, it occurs in “measure” most famously 22:48:03 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:48:08 it's the voiced pair of “sh” 22:48:23 -!- luis1 has joined. 22:49:04 hola 22:49:59 -!- luis1 has left. 22:50:17 … 22:53:31 b_jonas, you mean it's a phoneme in english 22:53:58 english doesn't use 'zs' to represent that sound 22:56:13 I'm not sure English has a name for it at all 22:56:19 although I agree that it is in the middle of the word "measure" 22:56:36 I guess "zsh" is the closest I can get using normal English spelling 23:07:11 -!- olsner_ has changed nick to olsner. 23:09:55 hmm, are you still on the sound of hungarian dgy? ISTR that's where I left you half a week ago 23:11:16 I don't think zsh gets us much further than bash does 23:11:21 fungot: ISTR? 23:11:22 boily: seems a popular pastime)) 23:11:31 "I seem to remember" 23:11:41 "seems a popular pastime to leave you there half a week ago" 23:11:44 oh. 23:11:48 fungot: you seem to have forgotten... 23:11:48 int-e: fnord. went to the party), better healthcare, better everything." " ok, do _you_ grok dependent types are " low level" syntax case. 23:12:15 fungot: #$%*($%) )%($* 384950 %($*#(), so you may have new words to say. 23:12:15 boily: conditions need not be duplicated at the beginning of the parameter names. at least it didn't earlier. ;-p 23:12:42 does fizzie retrain the irc model now? 23:12:52 afair it's frozen in time 23:13:36 there should be a shell called cash 23:13:54 it should be proprietary 23:15:11 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 23:15:21 boily: ISTR ISTR meaning "ISTR" 23:15:35 (hth) 23:16:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:16:55 . o O ( MLoM - modulo loss of memory ) 23:17:03 International Society of Technical Redactors 23:18:03 IICF 23:18:15 Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn 23:22:12 I imitate chatting fungots. 23:22:12 int-e: 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf8,16,32,64 funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple malbolge pbrain sceql udage01 unlambda 23:22:35 As used: "I think we should implement the new accounting software in MUMPS, IICF" 23:22:42 wait, why did it respond with a language list... 23:23:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:24:12 ISTR that ISTR has several meanings. 23:25:08 doesnt it basically always start "I seem to" 23:25:15 the fourth word can vary 23:25:41 A dictionary suggested "It Stands To Reason". 23:26:57 I disagree with that dictionary 23:27:12 what does that mean? 23:28:00 ISTR hearing "stands to reason" in a pratchett book. 23:28:46 But I don't know what it's actualy supposed to mean 23:28:55 "It Stands To Reason That" is more or less equivalent to "In My Opinion" 23:29:11 ah 23:29:55 (Though conceivably you could use it for opinions not your own. "One Might Argue That" is perhaps closer.) 23:30:38 one can argue literally anything, so that's pretty meaningless 23:30:42 I thought "it stands to reason" sort-of implies "a sufficiently intelligent person could deduce that" 23:31:12 Yeah, note the implied insult of your intelligence if you happen to disagree. 23:31:25 I guess... s/insult of/insult to/ 23:32:48 int-e: yep, I think that's part of it 23:49:30 I thought it was "I seem to recall" (which is not very different to 'remember', though) 23:51:17 That's quite possible, I tend to use synonyms interchangeably 23:52:49 Hmm, is there a special term for words that have an overlap in meaning, so they can be synonymous in some contexts but not in others? 23:53:55 not sure 23:54:08 etymologically "synonym" should be that, I guess (with two words that /always/ mean the same thing "isonyms") 23:55:48 Thanks. "Words can be synonymous when meant in certain senses, even if they are not synonymous in all of their senses." 2015-03-27: 00:00:42 oerjan: uh-oh. yesterday there was one open ticket for ghc-7.10, today there are two... 00:20:21 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:21:14 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:24:05 is translation a functor? 00:24:08 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:34:06 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:44:51 -!- j-bot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:45:05 -!- j-bot has joined. 00:45:28 -!- j-bot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:48:23 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:54:05 -!- j-bot has joined. 01:00:36 int-e: now if they could fix the open "ticket" for the ghc trac itself. (apparently it's having problems with bots.) 01:01:09 oops and one is in the Typeable solver 01:06:54 oerjan: Right, SPJ reopened it, but I haven't tried to understand his objection. (I thought one of the key points of making typeable internal is that the solver can be very relaxed about overlaps (just as with IncoherentInstances) because the produced typeable witnesses will always end up the same regardless... 01:07:22 fungot: gimme a closing parenthesis, please? 01:07:23 int-e: but i really need to find a decent prolog tutorial by which you may create a new one that does proper fnord 01:07:34 fungot: again? 01:07:34 int-e: sleeping is the cousin of death 01:07:43 fungot: you're such a disappointment sometimes 01:07:44 int-e: some colleagues of mine have done a lot and is southern. he is going to be a fnord 01:07:51 fungot: meh. 01:07:55 ) 01:09:34 fungot: could you close-paren me please? 01:09:34 boily: i use sxml to turn darcs changelogs into debian ones. heheh.' 01:09:47 fungot: what? that's pure evil! 01:09:48 boily: what do the french know? they don't treat macros in sicp? i didn't copy the sp?) 01:10:09 fungot: thanks for the belated parenthesis. and yes, the French don't know about that. 01:10:10 boily: how are clients any different from running lisp on the 370/ 158 stored its global environment in a continuation 01:10:24 boily: lucky you 01:12:04 -!- merdach has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:14:06 -!- merdach has joined. 01:15:40 fungot: what's the current price on right-parentheses? 01:15:40 FireFly: i'll quote from the stalin directory: 01:15:41 int-e: it's not luck, it's a deep spiritual connection with the 'got. we understand each other. 01:16:02 fungot: this may be a little bit outdated. don't you have anything more modern? 01:16:03 boily: it will. you'll need to go bang head against wall ensued. they got it in... 01:16:10 * boily bangs head 01:16:19 fungot: now? 01:16:19 boily: at the same pace that i'm explaining, it should be 01:16:26 fungot: it should be? 01:16:27 boily: you can't, i don't actually know what you meant by it 01:16:38 fungot: oh well... 01:16:38 boily: once i saw the 1991 demo... 01:16:43 fungot: sometimes I wish you would just get to the point 01:16:43 FireFly: a melon costs 50 cent coin and turned it into hardware ( which was on deviantart frontpage. :p 01:17:05 Well that's the price for a melon, at least 01:17:13 boily: Ok, you make it sound quite unlucky actually. 01:17:22 breaking news! DA featuring 50¢ melons! 01:17:33 fungot: aum 01:17:33 oerjan: forget a subject there, it doesn't work. i think i can 01:17:37 Douglas Adams? Isn't he dead? 01:17:47 That's DNA 01:17:56 int-e: technique, not luck. 01:17:57 the fungot that could 01:17:57 fungot: i aum 01:17:57 FireFly: i meant l:tu or winxp? ;p it might make a good demo with an engine like that than a lame snail?" it might improve the srfi process 01:17:58 oerjan: i am sorry for this absurdity i'm not enough of an innovation to be worthy of creating a failure object invoke the debugger) 01:18:20 fungot: ok i guess you're more into logic 01:18:20 oerjan: and one playfield turned into a popularity argument. what do you mean with " limited"? come on. i just added six stack rotation instructions. 01:18:35 Desoxyribonucleic acid? 01:19:16 fungot: I don't think befunge has any stack rotation instructions though 01:19:16 FireFly: irc is fnord 01:19:23 fungot: I see 01:19:23 FireFly: if we have a pair whose cdr is a list, and calls f-h again. this is the esoterics chat room yes? 01:19:38 fungot: yes, that is correct 01:19:38 FireFly: to your first world implicitly passed around. 01:19:40 fungot: yes it is. you're helping. 01:19:40 int-e: i'll try this one. though perhaps it isn't trustworthy. fnord/ artist/ fnord too up to last year, on a large battle to catch by this war. 01:20:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: implicit first world problems). 01:21:06 I wonder what would happen if fungot started mentioning chickens... 01:21:07 boily: a friend of mine has the assumption that it isn't even trying to divide by zero fix this" the sentence would not lose any meaning if you'd use eval. 01:21:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: METANGIBLE CHICKEN). 01:21:45 fungot: what did you do to those poor esotericans? 01:21:46 FireFly: althrought many powerful people where masons, i don't think " genius" is well-defined in this regard. it's counter-intuitive and you can't satisfy them all at once? 01:23:45 -!- merdach has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:25:26 -!- int-e has left ("BUNGEE CHICKEN"). 01:25:26 -!- int-e has joined. 01:26:21 fungot: what about woodcraft? 01:26:21 int-e: are you a fnord?) but i'm not sure my explanations are a bit wonky" crt back, i think 01:26:35 fungot: what about witchcraft? 01:26:36 int-e: i found this paper helpfull: fnord/ courses/ scheme/ slime48/. also, closing parens on same line 01:36:17 -!- vodkode has joined. 01:37:30 Now fungot is mocking you 01:37:30 FireFly: not really, kuribas. it has a bunch of smaller objects. for example, how would it know what one 01:38:00 fungot: how would it, though? 01:38:00 FireFly: it lets you clean up extant but useless data that might be nice if you enumerated the differences 01:39:10 fungot's moments of clarity have me worried 01:39:10 int-e: can somebody else come into this, and once you make eval look up its proper name. 01:51:33 WHY DOES THE INSERT KEY EXST 01:53:35 it's like some madman was like, yknow what i need? A key that can be pressed accidentally because it's next to right arrow, and makes your new writing overwrite your old writing character by character 01:55:12 maybe it was useful when people used fixed-length fields in everything? 01:57:27 fungot: why does the insert key exist? 01:57:28 orin: it relies on gauche a lot? :p. ugh i need to call that cleanup procedure also after the ordinary procedure, ( lambda ( x) 01:57:43 x) indeed 02:12:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:12:57 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 02:13:33 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 02:24:35 -!- merdach has joined. 02:44:41 -!- Lymee has joined. 02:47:22 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:49:00 -!- adu has joined. 02:51:47 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit). 02:59:36 -!- Lymee has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:00:03 -!- Lymee has joined. 03:10:09 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:27:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:30:25 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:37:16 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXauSxw86Pw 03:57:18 -!- bb010g has joined. 03:59:06 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 04:01:19 -!- Lymee has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:04:33 -!- izabera has quit (Killed (wolfe.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))). 04:04:52 -!- izabera_ has joined. 04:12:04 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:17:57 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:19:13 -!- perrier has joined. 04:29:09 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:29:39 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:30:24 -!- perrier has joined. 06:32:19 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:37:32 -!- vodkode has joined. 06:54:30 -!- izabera_ has changed nick to izabera. 06:59:30 -!- vodkode has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:20:58 -!- vodkode has joined. 07:34:53 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 07:35:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:55:51 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:56:34 [wiki] [[Huh?++]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42214&oldid=42212 * Ais523 * (+7) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Vriskanon|Vriskanon]] ([[User talk:Vriskanon|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Kfriede|Kfriede]] 07:57:14 [wiki] [[Huh?]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42215&oldid=42211 * Ais523 * (+2) no unmarked links to userspace, please 07:57:38 [wiki] [[Huh?]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42216&oldid=42215 * Ais523 * (+0) caps 07:57:46 [wiki] [[Hashes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42217&oldid=42209 * Ais523 * (-12) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Vriskanon|Vriskanon]] ([[User talk:Vriskanon|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:93.115.84.195|93.115.84.195]] 07:57:48 -!- mitchs has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:59:07 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 07:59:09 [wiki] [[~ATH]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42218&oldid=42206 * Ais523 * (+8) /* Tutorial */ don't mix meta-content with content, no unmarked links to userspace 07:59:25 [wiki] [[Secretary]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42219&oldid=42207 * Ais523 * (-8) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Vriskanon|Vriskanon]] ([[User talk:Vriskanon|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Oerjan|Oerjan]] 07:59:39 -!- mitchs has joined. 08:02:58 you may find this interesting 08:03:01 or maybe not 08:03:03 http://arin.ga/gBVNv3 08:03:25 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 08:04:51 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:05:17 conclusion: don't rely on sed being smart enough to optimize 2p -> 2{p;q} and don't rely on sed being smart enough to produce the correct output on binary files 08:06:11 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:08:06 I wouldn't expect sed to optimize 08:10:13 apparently a lot of people are expecting it to be equally efficient... 08:10:15 [wiki] [[User talk:Vriskanon]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42220 * Ais523 * (+2199) warning/note about links to userspace 08:13:12 hmm, I wonder when was the last time I did my Esolang adminning duties in a way other than spam clearup 08:13:54 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 08:17:02 Yay, ghc-7.10.1 finally made it. 08:18:35 -!- lambdabot has joined. 08:19:42 [wiki] [[~ATH]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42221&oldid=42218 * Ais523 * (-30) /* Examples */ reformat signed meta-note to fit mainspace formatting guidelines (meta formatting, mark links to userspace) 08:35:37 [wiki] [[User talk:Ais523]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42222&oldid=36133 * Vriskanon * (+468) /* Your Message/Changes */ new section 08:35:59 a good enough reply, at least 08:36:08 also I made the huge mistake of clicking on the diff 08:36:26 meaning that I entirely missed the Orange Bar of Doom, which I probably haven't seen for over a year now? 08:36:33 ever since Wikipedia got rid of it 08:37:37 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42223&oldid=42201 * Vriskanon * (+9) 08:39:11 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:39:50 -!- gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:40:05 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:50:30 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:10:54 -!- vodkode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:19:39 [wiki] [[User:Vriskanon]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42224&oldid=42203 * Vriskanon * (-88) /* Vriskanon */ 09:43:35 [wiki] [[Taworvor]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42225&oldid=42184 * 160.85.232.204 * (-86) /* Examples */ 09:51:38 -!- graue has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:02:09 -!- clog has joined. 10:07:42 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:08:06 -!- ^v has joined. 10:10:22 [wiki] [[~ATH]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42226&oldid=42221 * Vriskanon * (+2883) External links for Homestuck and Mesons. Changed introductiknMinor edits elsewhere. The 'Conditions' tutorial section (incomplete) and the 'Negative Concepts' tutorial section. 10:17:17 -!- Lymia has joined. 10:22:25 -!- heroux has joined. 10:35:35 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:39:02 -!- cpressey has joined. 10:51:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:59:16 WHY DOES THE INSERT KEY EXST <-- i use it occasionally, although i have some trouble remembering where it is on my new laptop keyboard. of course in vim the R command is easier. 11:03:38 shift+ins = paste 11:03:50 just sayin' 11:03:58 i just use ^V 11:04:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:05:04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXauSxw86Pw <-- what did i just watch 11:05:38 The question is not why the insert key exists. The question is why insert mode still exists 11:06:26 oerjan: I need to look at your monad which I assume is in the logs somewhere but I am too tired to hunt 11:08:20 @let dbind [x] f = f x; dbind l f | all ((==1).length) l' = concat l' | otherwise = [] where l' = map f l 11:08:22 Defined. 11:08:31 @check \x f g -> (((x::[Int]) `dbind` f :: [Int]) `dbind` g :: [Int]) == x `dbind` \t -> f t `dbind` g 11:08:32 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 11:08:55 return x = [x] 11:09:04 (>>=) = dbind 11:09:11 thank you 11:09:12 and that was checking the third monad laws 11:09:15 *-s 11:09:54 the idea is basically "make the result [] unless laws force you not to" 11:10:05 i like 11:10:39 "Counterexamples in Computation" 11:11:22 my brain is utterly dead tho 11:11:29 a common problem 11:12:26 "ShrugSQL": when there are so many ad-hoc abstraction layers between you and your data you have no idea whether it counts as "NoSQL" or not 11:12:47 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 11:13:33 the reason it only works for finite lists is that otherwise the check for whether you can return [] may never terminate. 11:14:16 does never-terminating violate the monad laws? 11:14:21 maybe i shouldn't ask such questions 11:15:33 it makes it hard to fulfil the x >>= return = x law for an infinite list x 11:15:52 especially if the return is somehow obfuscated 11:16:18 yeah that question was a bit troll-y tbh 11:16:45 a better question would be: do monads make sense in (say) a total functional programming regime? i don't see why they wouldn't 11:17:17 quite likely they make even _more_ sense, in haskell frequently the laws don't hold exactly once you have nontermination 11:18:21 i understand many total languages define a monad for non-terminating computations 11:19:05 so that they can still express turing-complete computations 11:20:01 codata Rec a = Now a | Later (Rec a) 11:20:38 or something equivalent 11:21:13 yes *cough, cough* 11:22:17 * oerjan gives cpressey a repsil drop 11:22:43 -!- ais523 has quit. 11:22:48 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 11:22:49 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 11:32:21 Yay, ghc-7.10.1 finally made it. <-- brace for confused stackoverflow questions... 11:32:45 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:34:34 seriously though. all the effort we're putting into developing total functional programming could be directed towards teaching kids to code so they can build things with love and change the world. 11:34:38 what *are* our priorities. 11:35:27 i think you just tied my brain into a meta-ironic knot 11:36:37 i'm sorry. finding it very hard not to get bitter, as i age. not unlike cheese, i suppose 11:40:17 [wiki] [[Mmmm()]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42227&oldid=41367 * SuperJedi224 * (+9) 11:40:28 [wiki] [[User:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42228&oldid=41204 * SuperJedi224 * (+258) 11:40:56 [wiki] [[User:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42229&oldid=42228 * SuperJedi224 * (+4) 11:45:18 [wiki] [[Daft Punk]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42231 * Vriskanon * (+298) Created page with "{{stub}} ''Daft Punk is still under production. This page will be updated when the code is fully designed.'' - ~~~~ Daft is an [[Esoteric Programming Language]] currentl..." 11:45:38 [wiki] [[Daft Punk]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42232&oldid=42231 * Vriskanon * (-4) 11:46:19 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 11:47:14 [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42233&oldid=42208 * Vriskanon * (+16) /* D */ Added Daft Punk 11:47:27 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 11:48:11 [wiki] [[Daft Punk]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42234&oldid=42232 * Vriskanon * (+31) 11:53:25 -!- ais523 has quit. 11:57:27 i wonder how much of modern software development is just *finding* the line of code to change 11:59:05 cpressey: that depends on whether you write the code well organized in first place 11:59:19 if you write good code, then yes, you just have to find where to change 12:00:05 if not, you have to restructure everything and change ten copies of what should have been refactored to the same function in first place, and then hunt down memory corruption bugs that didn't use to crash the program so frequently before this incidental change. 12:00:28 "how much of modern software development" depends on nothing except the set of all modern software development 12:04:47 "how quickly and completely can you familiarize yourself with a vast territory?" <-- possible interview question 12:07:37 and then there's the spec, or lack thereof. "story: currently we do X when Z, make it Y when Z instead". four hours later: no, we actually already Y when Z 12:07:57 maybe those bdd people have a point 12:16:16 this territory talk is nonsense, i will have nunavut 12:18:58 i'm sure they do, but what does body dysmorphic disorder have to do with programming 12:19:06 @pinky 12:19:06 I think so, Brain, but isn't that why they invented tube socks? 12:19:30 I thought you disapproved of these puns but now you look so inuit. 12:20:01 you cannot have been paying proper attention 12:30:12 yukon count me out of this silly game 12:32:56 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 12:34:11 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:38:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:40:17 dysmorphic disorder? what's that? 12:42:41 @google dysmorphic disorder 12:42:43 http://www.adaa.org/understanding-anxiety/related-illnesses/other-related-conditions/body-dysmorphic-disorder-bdd 12:42:43 Title: Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD) | Anxiety and Depression Association of Americ... 12:44:20 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 12:59:26 oerjan: you watched some cute Chinese girls singing and dancing, obviously. 13:01:44 well that much was obvious. 13:02:41 well that's all I know about it 13:02:59 OKAY 13:14:30 Ok, I looked up the group on zh.wikipedia. Apparently they were 5 years old and the video is from 2006 (explaining the quality) 13:14:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:15:11 Firebase is surprisingly expensive 13:15:18 $50 a month? 13:15:37 I can get a dedicated high performance server for that kind of money 13:15:53 with unlimited traffic and TB of storage 13:16:26 recently the same group got together and recordied it again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvGGpOhIjG8 13:25:13 Unfortunately that means i have it stuck in my head again 13:39:53 i don't know what this is but i think i'll pass 13:39:58 -!- zadock has joined. 13:40:35 dammit, spj's mails are almost unreadable in the pipermail archives 13:41:15 (the conversion to text doesn't preserve whatever quoting scheme he's using 13:41:17 ) 13:41:35 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:45:14 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 13:51:24 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:54:25 -!- shikhin has changed nick to shikhin_. 13:55:58 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 13:59:08 oerjan: spj's emails are unreadable in my mail client, too :P 14:02:49 who is spj? 14:02:56 simon peyton-jones 14:03:01 ok 14:04:42 -!- shikhin has changed nick to shikhin_. 14:05:11 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 14:08:54 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:09:31 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:12:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Client Quit). 14:12:51 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:14:59 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:24:21 ok, if i don't leave now, i'm going to start saying things i will probably regret later 14:24:24 bye 14:24:25 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:40:50 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 14:44:38 [wiki] [[Mmmm()]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42235&oldid=42227 * Esowiki201529A * (+13) Undo 14:50:46 [wiki] [[Calculator fuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42236&oldid=41653 * Esowiki201529A * (+24) 14:51:40 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:52:20 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:55:00 -!- Lymia has joined. 15:17:08 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:57:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:58:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:05:10 -!- fractal has quit (Changing host). 16:05:10 -!- fractal has joined. 16:08:04 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:09:37 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:10:10 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:11:03 shikin, get a server and a screen session 16:12:40 * shikhin 16:12:49 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:13:06 -!- gde33 has joined. 16:13:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:14:00 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:15:30 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:20:15 -!- trn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:21:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:23:06 -!- trn has joined. 16:31:28 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:40:19 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:41:47 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 16:55:49 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:03:28 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:06:14 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:26:26 Fun, hanami season in full swing... I love the fact that there are forecasts. http://www.jnto.go.jp/sakura/eng/index.php 17:26:44 Or sakura, hanami is the celebration? 17:38:35 hanami just literally says "flower viewing" 17:38:51 sakura means the cherry blossoms 18:00:40 helloily 18:00:51 oh nvm 18:00:57 was scrolled up 18:20:49 -!- zadock has joined. 18:24:13 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 18:25:24 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:25:26 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 18:29:13 Just heard on the news "There is no girl" 18:29:28 That sounds probably significant on quite a terrifying level 18:30:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:30:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:30:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:31:43 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:31:52 (it's talking about a vigilante group catching a sexual predator by creating a fictional teenage girl) 19:33:02 -!- Koen_ has joined. 19:39:13 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:46:05 -!- heroux has joined. 20:00:40 -!- nortti has changed nick to ^[Ss]hikhin. 20:00:43 -!- ^[Ss]hikhin has changed nick to nortti. 20:22:29 -!- f|`-`|f_ has joined. 20:23:55 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:24:08 -!- f|`-`|f_ has changed nick to f|`-`|f. 20:26:27 -!- iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit))))))))). 20:32:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:39:06 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 20:48:46 -!- GeekDude has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:49:19 -!- GeekDude has joined. 20:51:27 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:55:31 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: maintenance). 21:06:04 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:20:28 -!- lambdabot has joined. 21:27:38 ooh, look! the proceedings for the Sigbovik conference are already available, even before the start of the conference 21:27:42 wow 21:27:44 I'll have to read in the weekend 21:27:47 http://sigbovik.org/2015/ 21:31:55 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 21:40:32 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:50:02 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 21:50:41 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:55:02 -!- lambdabot has joined. 22:01:21 -!- GeekDude has joined. 22:01:28 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host). 22:01:28 -!- GeekDude has joined. 22:02:57 -!- boily has joined. 22:17:18 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:17:53 ##ircplaysddungeon 22:19:13 nhellortti! what's ddungeon? 22:20:43 who knows, but apparently irc plays it 22:21:03 -!- S1 has joined. 22:22:08 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:23:12 it was a typo of "dungeon" 22:24:09 -!- MichaelMalus has joined. 22:24:17 and here I was hoping that ddungeon was to dungeon what ddate is to date... 22:24:28 `relcome MichaelMalus 22:24:30 ​MichaelMalus: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:24:53 boily: maybe it should be! since everything is better discordianly 22:29:57 -!- MichaelMalus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:30:40 -!- MichaelMalus has joined. 22:31:52 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:37:42 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 22:38:25 -!- GeekDude has joined. 22:41:56 -!- MichaelMalus has left. 22:53:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:02:33 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 23:18:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:24:07 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 23:37:42 -!- tromp__ has joined. 23:38:37 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:39:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:39:31 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:41:16 bohily 23:42:04 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:42:11 -!- tromp has joined. 23:42:15 Nice, The Association of Computational Heresy 23:49:02 FirhelloFly! 23:49:11 int-hello! what is that? 23:51:48 boily: see b_jonas' link ... which you missed: http://sigbovik.org/2015/ 23:52:20 どもくん！ 23:53:56 "Bashing Haskell: Reimplementing the Parsec Library Inside the Unix Shell" ... oh no. 23:54:41 Computational Heresy? 23:57:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MYSTERIOUS CHICKEN). 23:57:20 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:57:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 2015-03-28: 00:00:26 "MD5 takes an arbitrary string of characters, passes it through a deterministic blender and produces an unnecessarily long 128-bit value." 00:11:29 Unnecessarily long? 00:12:42 Yes. MD5/4 compresses it into 32 bits 00:13:18 FreeFull: it might help to know that the proceedings are dated April 1st 2015. 00:13:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:13:46 int-e: Hmm, so they're from the future 00:14:00 But not for long :) 00:14:15 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:15:04 "Or, more likely, you're looking at them on a screen because you're too cheap to actually buy the proceedings." They know me so well. 00:15:13 I wonder if that's on the paper copy at all. 00:15:18 int-e: I wasn't looking at the proceedings, and that sentence is mostly accurate 00:15:23 -!- clog has joined. 00:15:50 fizzie: Oh jeez, the last page is filled with lots of tiny text 00:16:07 FreeFull: At the same time, no self-respecting cryptographer would write that in a scientific publication. 00:17:43 "the solid foundation of the MD5/4 cryptographic hash function" 00:18:20 "the RSA public key cryptosystem signing procedure [10] with a key length of 32 bits" 00:18:25 wait, so 96 of the bits are not needed? 00:18:35 Heh 00:19:02 FreeFull: wait until you get to the footnote explaining why 2048 is a more popular choice 00:19:27 I'll read this in-depth later 00:20:04 "Copyright © 2015 The Association of Computational Heresy, your leading source for cutting-edge research on Science, Computational Archaeolinguistics, and Artificial Stupidity. " 00:20:54 owie. "Kaliningrad, Russia (colloq.); better known in the Formal Literature as Königsberg, Prussia... 00:20:57 " 00:21:26 Oh, they aren't saying that 96 of the bits can be deduced from 32, they're just saying THEY only need 32 bits 00:22:39 wait is this entire thing an elaborate joke or not? 00:23:24 it's a valid cryptographic operation, assuming your attacker doesn't have access to modern (post 1960?) computers. 00:23:42 orin: you're catching on fast 00:23:57 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:24:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:24:11 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 00:24:29 Unfortunaely in the internet age it is hard to tell whether anything is a joke 00:26:20 If the website is to be believed, it's "joke realizations of joke ideaas", "joke realizations of serious ideas", and "serious realizations of joke ideas", all of which /joke/. 00:27:59 that's a similar set as this channel, isn't it? 00:28:03 at least when it's ontopic? 00:30:47 Yes, although this channel also has the "related to programming languages" bit set. 00:31:06 Allegedly, anyway. 00:31:20 Yes, I suppose is mostly the topic anyways 00:32:38 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:37:27 `danddreclist 64 00:37:28 danddreclist 64: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 00:46:35 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 00:47:03 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:48:19 ancient greeks, including Aristotle and a mortal man [1] named Socrates. 00:48:43 What is that about the Greeks? 00:49:40 zzo38: it's a sentence from the artivle on "artisanal type theory" 00:49:55 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:02:05 My RDF namespace now has 19 leaf nodes defined. 01:08:30 "By he way, the images are always 256x256, because numbers that are a power of two are faster.²" "²This is true on computers, because computers count in binary. In the human eye, powers of ten are faster, because humans have ten fingers." 01:08:34 the* 01:09:35 that is one of those statements that's /just/ accurate enough that you can't outright call it false, while nonetheless being completely misleading 01:12:10 Eyes aren't fingers though, isn't it? 01:12:16 indeed 01:13:20 [wiki] [[Batch file]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42237 * Esowiki201529A * (+76) Created page with "== examples == === Hello, World === 
 @echo off echo Hello, World
" 01:14:13 [wiki] [[Batch file]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42238&oldid=42237 * Esowiki201529A * (+24) 01:14:36 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:14:38 god damn it these earbuds have too much bass 01:14:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:15:42 I _knew_ I should have bought cheaper ones 01:20:04 [wiki] [[Batch file]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42239&oldid=42238 * Esowiki201529A * (+6) 01:20:54 Why is PDJSON larger than my RDF Turtle parser when both are compiled with -s -O2 options? 01:23:14 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 01:24:59 Isn't RDF Turtle more complicated than JSON? 01:26:08 How does the error handling compare in each piece of code? 01:27:54 I don't know; maybe you should look. Although, both do check for several errors (there are probably more errors to check for in RDF). 01:28:14 Maybe you can look though, and see if that help 01:31:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:36:17 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 01:37:20 Hmm... maybe it's strerror? 01:38:30 which would implicitly include a bunch of strings, most of which are never used, 01:39:35 O, maybe 01:39:58 ^rerere loop unrolling 01:40:37 fungot: aww 01:40:37 int-e: fnord by pikhq already exists and doesn't require tcness from that. therefore, a language with card decks. yarr. 01:46:35 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:46:50 No, strerror is linked externally; the compiled DLL doesn't include all of those strings 01:46:56 I checked 01:47:29 Despite that, sqlext_pdjson.dll is 46K and sqlext_turtle.dll is 22K 01:54:19 PDJSON does have smaller source-codes though. 02:02:47 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 02:05:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:06:09 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:06:27 -!- ^v has joined. 02:09:51 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:12:58 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:14:32 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 02:27:35 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:33:15 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:39:26 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:34:40 -!- vodkode has joined. 03:38:55 -!- adu has joined. 03:47:16 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:53:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:58:10 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:16:10 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:59:40 -!- shachaf has joined. 05:29:30 https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/30hk3l/github_may_be_inaccessible_today_due_to_a_ddos/ 05:29:32 Gotta love JSONP 05:40:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:42:43 Given that other people are pointing out the obvious right way to fix the DDoS attack, is it that bad if I mention it too? 05:42:55 The first few things I said I avoided mentioning it, but now I haven't 05:43:11 But it's an obvious thing... but apparently not obvious to the Chinese gov 05:45:55 someone's ddos'ing china? 05:46:43 China is attempting to DDoS GitHub 05:47:00 By causing sites using Baidu analytics to make JSONP requests to GitHub 05:47:15 *to cause users to make etc 05:47:25 GitHub responded by making that URL return an alert() 06:08:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:08:37 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 06:08:48 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 06:34:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:34:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:37:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:37:14 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 06:37:21 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 06:44:29 god damn it these earbuds have too much bass <-- bass are inferior to babel fishes, anyhow 06:46:26 btw i suggest featuring Esme for april 1, on the reasoning that it will likely greatly speed up the next feature. 06:50:16 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:50:23 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 06:50:48 If the new version of CLC-INTERCAL is released on April 1, then should you feature the new version of CLC-INTERCAL on April 1? 06:51:59 But Esme is better as a 'this should not be featured' language being featured 06:52:42 I wouldn't recommend featuring Esme 06:52:45 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 06:53:21 If VeeBeeWiki needs Esme to run, maybe there would be hints of what the language is actually supposed to be 06:54:46 Except only link apparently was dead 07:01:13 I looked on a TV guide and on the guide in the cable box with DVR to figure out when the show is on, and then I went into the basement to record it on the VCR; are you going to call it strange if I do such thing? 07:02:50 -!- zadock has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:02:54 Slightly strange that you'd use VCR if a DVR is present, also wondering why you needed to check two sources 07:03:09 videotapes aren't used anymore in Canada, but they are used a lot in Japan, so it' relative 07:05:26 Anyway DVR can have limitations as to getting the data off the DVR 07:06:26 As it turns out they connected it to an input on the DVD recorder on the main floor, so that is one way to copy it I suppose 07:06:52 Although someone else is using the DVR and that TV set so I don't want to fill up the disk space or to interfere with their TV shows 07:07:39 The reason I checked two sources is that the TV guide doesn't list shows on at 3AM 07:08:00 it's 3AM now 07:08:41 Not in my timezone 07:18:40 oerjan: agreed re: esme 07:18:46 not even ironically 07:18:49 I mean 07:18:50 yes ironically 07:18:52 but not on that level 07:32:54 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:42:14 OKAY 07:42:59 the haskell wiki is so broken i cannot even view diffs :( 07:43:32 the fact no one else has seemingly noticed doesn't bode well. 07:43:44 because it means no one is checking edits. 07:44:10 #haskell-infrastructure hth 07:45:02 ok 07:50:59 i,i hats that help 07:56:29 i'm sure it did, just look at the response 07:57:40 it's p. late in haskellland 08:01:48 pesky western hemisphere 08:39:37 -!- hjulle has joined. 08:54:43 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:21:30 -!- zadock has joined. 09:38:39 struct mytest A = {3,5.6,"World",0}; 09:38:42 struct mytest B = {5,3.1415,"Hello",&A}; 09:38:45 prin7f("{%d,%f,%s,%R}",&B); 09:39:11 output is: {5,3.141500,Hello,{3,5.600000,World,}} 09:39:17 muhuhahahaha 09:40:28 charming 09:41:53 the prin7f family of functions works sort of like the printf family, except they take their data out of a given buffer instead of from dynamically typed arguments 09:42:37 The %R specifier recurses into a pointer with the same format 09:44:14 must it be the whole format? otherwise it seems a bit limited. 09:44:57 clearly we need the full power of BNF here 09:45:09 Hmmm.... 09:46:29 solution: make the first argument a struct also >:) 09:46:59 ...might be a bit tricky. 09:47:22 Well, I'm just covering onw of the most common cases. Full BNF would use an array of formats that can refer to each other with "%{N}" 09:48:58 or something 09:50:21 Of course, I'd have to write code to detect looped pointers.... ugh 09:51:08 wait, I already need that 09:55:26 `olist 979 09:55:27 olist 979: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 09:55:48 ooh, list 09:56:23 huh my FB page hasn't said anything yet 09:57:59 ol' ist 10:01:04 Sgeo_ can just take your trademark like that? 10:01:15 next it'll have to be ølist 10:02:28 øl, øl, og mere øl 10:07:17 https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Cyclic_Tag_System 10:08:39 Jafet: oh wow 10:09:34 -!- shikhin has joined. 10:11:03 (The guilty party seems to be http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/27/High%20Performance%20SQL%20with%20PostgreSQL%20Presentation.pdf) 10:14:48 https://gist.github.com/orenwatson/985cdf4a945ee80f756d 10:19:20 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:20:44 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:38:53 -!- vodkode has joined. 10:53:00 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 10:53:00 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:58:23 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 10:59:36 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:02:49 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:09:23 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:15:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:19:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: More nagging later). 11:28:17 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:31:51 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:37:45 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:37:55 -!- boily has joined. 12:34:32 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:35:58 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:51:01 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:53:41 -!- nys has joined. 13:25:14 @metar CYUL 13:25:15 CYUL 281300Z 35011KT 30SM FEW090 FEW240 M09/M17 A3006 RMK AC1CI1 AC TR CI TR SLP181 13:25:50 minus fungotting nine. and it was snowing yesterday... 13:25:50 boily: and diamondie; if they'd still age at this speed and stayed in bed the last 100 years, i'd say. 13:26:30 fungot: I wouldn't mind cats or dogs or diamondies pouring down. as long as it isn't any more snow. 13:26:31 boily: also pushing should be fnord?? weirdo! set-car! set-cdr! are functions, but f takes as an argument 13:27:04 fungot: it's not weird, it's common sense. you push and shovel and hurl the snow away. 13:27:04 boily: tell me what " fnord" is longer than 13:27:15 fungot: fnord is longer than snow. 13:27:15 boily: anyone here familiar with dr scheme? fnord! 13:27:27 fungot: perhaps. I think racket's more popular nowadays. 13:33:05 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:33:31 -!- ^v has joined. 13:33:41 @metar uh what was that code again 13:33:45 @metar EGLL 13:33:46 EGLL 281320Z 23017KT 9999 OVC013 13/09 Q1010 TEMPO SCT012 BKN016 13:41:58 -!- jameseb has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 13:41:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 13:57:28 fizzie: do you know why fungot forgot about ^rerere and ^rreree? 13:57:28 int-e: i just want to dump the fnord leaves. 13:57:42 fungot: brilliant excuse 13:57:42 int-e: in your file makes it instantly clear. chopping it into at least two other links that don't work 13:59:12 or perhaps a better question is, does fungot support remembering defined commands over restarts? 13:59:12 int-e: that's a zip file stored in a hash-table? what's wrong with it just pointing out that a lot 14:00:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:01:33 a zip file in a hash table seems a bit cumbersome for befunge processing 14:02:29 you're underestimating fungot's prowesses. 14:02:30 boily: i'm afraid i haven't read it yet. also, saying the f word more than once ( per invocation). 14:02:54 fungot: I wouldn't know. I'm seriously lacking in the f-word department. 14:02:55 boily: which is good. ( well, it seems... 14:03:01 fungot: it is. 14:03:02 boily: and merging is great!" and was curious if scheme code were parsed textually, you'd never know what you'll find over the rainbow"? x_x 14:05:11 graphical parsing of scheme sounds very cumbersome, fungot 14:05:11 FireFly: it's unnecessary, especially if one restricts it to working stuff and marks them appropriately) 14:05:20 fungot: why indeed 14:05:21 FireFly: in c. " fnord"? when i load it?' and how will that help me tracing the prog? hardly 14:06:52 int-e: Nobody ^saved? 14:15:00 there's a ^save? 14:15:28 fizzie: quite possibly. 14:17:00 ^def rreree bf ,..>,[.<.>.>,]<. 14:17:00 Defined. 14:17:11 ^def rerere bf ,.>,.<.>>,[.<.<.>>>,]<.<.>. 14:17:11 Defined. 14:17:13 ^save 14:17:31 (am I even allowed to do that?) 14:19:23 ŝave 14:19:26 hm. 14:19:29 ^save 14:19:38 revive keys! 14:19:58 my keys are dead and I like it that way. 14:20:28 * boily is a certified necrokeyboardomancer :D 14:26:16 int-e: I don't think it works for anyone but fizzie to ^save? 14:31:02 -!- zadock has joined. 14:53:05 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:02:26 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:04:49 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:09:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:24:27 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:12:31 -!- vodkode has joined. 16:15:00 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:17:56 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:19:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:29:08 ^save 16:29:08 OK. 16:29:20 Yes, it's one of these restricted ones. 16:35:28 ^unrestrict 16:35:52 fungot: please, unrestrict yourself. it's for the Greater Good® 16:35:52 boily: i'm getting rather tired of incessant divergence from the topic has the url :) :) 3 :) 16:36:02 fungot: bleh to you too! 16:36:02 boily: it's put onto amb-fail. 16:44:04 ooh, fungot 16:44:04 olsner: it was some other programming language, it's just too difficult in a statically typed macro system from a large variety of broken keymaps 16:59:09 -!- vodkode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:11:56 fungot: I could see that, yes 17:11:56 FireFly: well at least it will be a variable name is really call-with-current-continuation. amb is somewhat more roundabout than i thought 17:19:32 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:24:32 https://github.com/rntz/rotten#rotten 17:24:40 lisp compiler that compiles in a backdoor 17:24:52 when self compiling 17:31:57 newsham: you know "reflections on trusting trust", right? http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html 17:34:03 Oh, it's the first thing mentioned in the readme.md, I should've clicked the link before answering 17:38:35 inte: nevah hoid of it! 17:38:42 inte: you know about diverse double compilation, right? 17:38:52 yes 17:45:52 -!- GeekDude has joined. 18:03:32 Indeed, lisp is a poor attack vector for this because we know that every lisp hacker can make their own implementation of lisp 18:04:26 (Large defense surface?) 18:06:03 fungot, is lisp a poor attack vector? 18:06:03 b_jonas: seriously i mean da scm monster. water walker. 18:06:25 fungot, have you tried to make your own dialect of lisp yet? 18:06:25 b_jonas: forget your religion is i am an image artist" fnord, i'm sorry, but i can't make 18:06:36 from that parenthesis stuff you mentioned a few days ago I thought you would 18:07:17 -!- Nokaji has joined. 18:13:10 do you guys know suckless? 18:15:52 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 18:17:21 of course 18:18:00 good, because i need to rant 18:18:04 THEIR NAME IS WRONG 18:18:08 THEIR STUFF SUCKS 18:18:24 THEY WROTE LIBUTF AND THEIR SED BREAKS UTF8 18:18:26 WTF 18:18:29 ok /rant 18:20:46 -!- lambdabot has joined. 18:35:53 fungot: does suckless suck less? 18:35:54 FireFly: ' these people's c is horrible' for ' binary', though. i rather enjoy sounding the opinions of other schemers, but if they used python or scheme or cl 18:36:11 I think fungot agrees with you, izabera 18:36:11 FireFly: i suppose doom iii on geforce 4 under the hurd might be an example of upwards only continuations. 18:36:22 uh. I don't think so 18:37:12 izabera: maybe (turning an old joke about MS around) they tried to write firmware for a vacuum cleaner... 18:51:48 orin: you'll need to handle padding 18:55:22 What is that? How does their sed breaks UTF-8? 18:56:08 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:58:54 -!- shikhin has joined. 19:00:41 izabera: the suckless people rarely seem to bother being consistent in their philosophy... 19:01:11 the Unicode support thing seems like kind of an outlier to me. I have a feeling that if Plan 9 didn't have such a focus on it, they'd consider it unnecessary bloat :p 19:08:36 If you want to add Unicode support into sed and stuff that using regular expression, is easy to do, is make up a regex modifier flag to enable UTF-8 in which case when it read the byte 0xC0-0xFF then read however many next bytes 0x80-0xBF are considered as part of the same character. Nothing else needs to be done, and now you can even turn it off by just not specifying this flag. 19:08:59 You shouldn't try to add in everything else like character classes and so on 19:10:52 the meaning of [a-ä] is very different with and without the flag; you cannot encode the resulting unicode range conveniently in a 256 bit array. 19:13:10 That is true, but, such ranges are not likely what you would want anyways, whether or not the flag is set. 19:13:35 (I have a DFA based regex engine around that uses arrays of size 256 for transitions.) 19:13:57 (It would be ... interesting ... to try to make it work with utf-8) 19:14:54 You should instead use multiple ranges together if you really want to include both accented and unaccented letters in the same range like that. 19:16:40 int-e: Ah, well I suppose it may be possible to compile UTF-8-based regular expressions into byte-based regular expressions, like I explained how to compile the dot, for example 19:17:02 right. 19:17:47 I guess negating ranges is the tricky bit. 19:29:06 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:29:46 I had an issue a while ago where a sed script worked differently depending on the locale, due to character ranges 19:30:30 it even happened when I used escapes. You'd think [\x30-\x3f] would unambiguously match the set of bytes 0x30..0x3f, but apparently it doesn't 19:30:40 collating is the worst idea ever. 19:31:30 it's almost like bolting unicode on in a kind of ad-hoc manner after the fact doesn't go to well :p 19:31:34 No, [a-z] should not include B-Y and one of A or Z (I forgot which one), oh and äöüÄÖÜ while we're at it) 19:33:02 character ranges just seem like a fundamentally poor idea for unicode to me... 19:37:36 sorry i had to go 19:37:38 $ suckless sed 's/[à]/x/' <<< è 19:37:41 x¨ 19:37:46 this is... broken 19:37:50 That's stupid it shouldn't use Unicode such thing 19:38:11 It shouldn't use the locale 19:40:33 In byte mode it should match all bytes in range, in UTF-8 mode it should match all sequences of bytes corresponding to the shortest UTF-8 encoding of the codepoints in the given range. 19:41:08 zzo38: what do you mean with stupid? my example or their sed's behaviour? 19:41:30 because it obviously should use unicode imho 19:41:50 No it shouldn't use Unicode, unless you set a flag to tell it to do so 19:42:12 ??? why does that make any sense? the flag should be always active 19:42:37 No it shouldn't, you should use single byte encodings by default (the program doesn't have to care which) 19:42:49 it's 2015 19:43:09 not for zzo it isn't 19:43:22 The alternative is to provide a flag to turn it off instead 19:43:39 your reasoning is maybe valid in a 1975 background 19:43:56 `` LC_CTYPE=C sed 's/[à]/x/' <<< è 19:44:12 x 19:44:23 `` sed 's/[à]/x/' <<< è 19:44:25 ​è 19:44:50 yay gnu 19:45:20 Excellent 19:45:22 `` locale 19:45:23 LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ 19:45:38 New zealand? whatever floats your boat 19:45:44 But I think it shouldn't use the locale, instead add a regex flag after the / to tell it to use UTF-8, if you don't specify then it doesn't, and either way doens't care about what language or anything like that 19:46:06 did you happen to read the posix standard 19:46:28 Now you have to add another shortcut that will change the locale to C when executing the command 19:47:17 In UNIX systems I have access to I had to even change the locale to C in my login scripts, since they did it bad too 19:47:27 technically unicode did not exist in 1975 :p 19:48:13 some parts of the locale system *do* seem to mess things up more than they help, but... that's unix for you 19:48:32 you mean [a-z] matching X ? 19:48:41 that's what [[:lower:]] is for 19:48:51 I think [a-z] is kind of unreasonable to start with. 19:49:04 I still think [a-z] matching X is stupid unless case-insensitive mode is selected 19:49:17 By default it shouldn't do that 19:49:19 (but I do admit that I have no idea how to reliably match "ASCII characters a to z". what if you're grepping for some programming language's syntax?) 19:49:43 I find, e.g. locale-based ordering annoying in "ls". it messes up SHOUTYFILES coming first, iirc 19:50:02 LC_CTYPE=C [a-z] 19:50:21 well, that's the other thing 19:50:27 (if [a-z[ in the C locale matches X yell at your vendor) 19:50:42 sadly unix is a mess and a whole bunch of software is never going to make sure the locale is right for what it does in its scripts or whatever 19:50:54 I agree it is stupid, I want to force the locale to be C which is why I set up the login script to force the locale to C 19:50:55 I hate almost everything about locales, but I do have LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (why the en_US?) set. 19:51:22 int-e: I too, but I prefer to set it to C instead of en_US.UTF-8 19:51:25 (I do like localised software, and I do think all software should handle Unicode, no excuses.) 19:51:29 The C/Unix locale system isn't *that* bad, but very few people understand it well. 19:51:34 (I just think the Unix locale system is about as much of a mess as Unix itself.) 19:51:45 elliott: You'd like musl's locale approach. 19:51:59 "Unicode is the only supported charset". 19:52:08 (Actually I hate localised error messages, because I have to read them, rather than recognize them by pattern matching.) 19:52:09 does musl even support locales to the point of letting you get error messages in your language from ls or whatever? 19:52:13 Yes. 19:52:20 I disagree; only documentation and GUIs should be localised. 19:52:40 Nobody's bothered doing much localization, but there's locale infrastructure in place just fine. 19:52:41 I know you disagree with almost everything I say >_> 19:52:44 And, not all software needs to handle Unicode; it depends on the software. 19:52:57 elliott: you're wrong! 19:53:06 Most software probably shouldn't need to handle Unicode. 19:53:14 I think there's a couple omissions? 19:53:24 ... Oh *right*, it doesn't support localized collation. 19:54:00 we should all go back to the original Emacs-on-TECO ported to TOPS-20, imo, argument over 19:54:04 [a-z] matching X if /i is given is reasonable to me 19:54:21 oh nice TECO even ran on TOPS-20! 19:54:26 without /i any range should match exactly that range of bytes IMO 19:54:30 And (not exactly the same thing as locales, but somewhat relevant to some localized users) musl's iconv doesn't support *extensions* to its charset support ATM. 19:54:55 Making the sort command to support user-defined collation sequences (independent of chaacter set) seem reasonable to me; most other programs don't need to, but there are some such as SQLite that you can add extensions for user-defined collation sequences already too. 19:55:01 izabera: I apologise for any part i had in starting this argument -_- 19:55:10 lol 19:55:56 Which means you're going to have some issues if the legacy charset for your languange is not sufficiently common to have been implemented in iconv. 19:58:08 SQLite has no SQL commands to implement collation sequences, but you can write them in C and then load them using the LOAD_EXTENSION function in SQL. 19:58:42 So, SOL if it's not: UTF-8, UCS2, UTF-16, UTF-32, ASCII, EUC-JP, Shift-JIS, GB18030, GBK, GB2312, Big5, EUC-KR, ISO-8859*, or one of the more popular Windows code pages. 19:59:37 what about EBCDIC? 19:59:51 -!- Nokaji has left. 20:00:18 Nope. 20:00:18 (IBM's proprietary encryption) 20:01:27 (fuck EBCDIC) 20:02:49 EBCDIC isn't very good; ASCII is better. 20:03:23 I usually use ASCII when possible though rather than any other characters sets; most are compatible with ASCII though, so won't be much problem 20:04:32 Ah, from Wikipedia: Professor: "So the American government went to IBM to come up with an encryption standard, and they came up with—" Student: "EBCDIC!" 20:10:36 Is using cookies on GitHub Pages actually -safe-? 20:11:00 github.io is on the public suffix list 20:11:32 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:14:10 Sgeo_: "safe"? 20:14:46 As in, if I run a.github.io and use cookies for stuff, what chance does evil.github.io have of breaking stuff 20:16:25 The VCR I have has no zero-return function. You can reset the counter to zero, but doesn't have the mode to automatically fast-forward/rewind until reaching zero and then stop. 20:16:37 it's a matter of setting the cookie's domain and path, isn't it? 20:17:52 What if evil overrides a cookie that a is using? 20:18:05 But public suffix list entry for github.io should block that I think 20:18:09 For browsers that use that list 20:18:16 Fuck cookies for needing a list like that 20:20:12 Sgeo_: evil.github.io should not be able to set a cookie for a.github.io 20:20:13 Just mention on your webpage to add such an entry to the list 20:21:13 (nor should the browser send a cookie for a.github.io in requests to evil.github.io) 20:22:13 Another thing you can use the client's IP address for additional security measures 20:24:01 Sgeo_: I'd assume that the purpose of the "public suffix list" is that websites cannot set cookies with such suffixes; i.e. evil.github.io cannot set a cookie for the domain .github.io, which would then be sent along with all requests to github.io websites. 20:24:12 int-e: right 20:24:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MURAL CHICKEN). 20:24:25 so I'm unsure what you're worried about here. 20:25:21 Browsers that don't use the Public Suffix List? 20:25:43 int-e: no 20:25:46 the cookies would still be for the wrong domains. 20:26:08 int-e: the cookies contain the domains, so the servers can just ignore such cookies 20:26:24 b_jonas: yes. 20:26:26 A user-defined public suffix list is probably a better idea, although you can still provide lists of default values too 20:26:36 you don't need to guess what the public suffix list is for: https://publicsuffix.org/ 20:26:40 it says right there 20:26:51 int-e: the goal of the public suffix list is to prevent a DOS attack and possibly information leakage where a website would make your browser send a dozen large cookies to every site with a *.com domain 20:26:55 I think 20:27:23 you could never set cookies for *.com, anyway 20:27:43 elliott: "Avoid privacy-damaging "supercookies" being set for high-level domain name suffixes " is what I was thinking about 20:27:48 right 20:28:14 yep 20:28:19 b_jonas: I'm not sure what exactly I wrote that you think is wrong. 20:30:13 (Except that I didn't consider the DoS angle of attack.) 20:31:14 int-e: sorry, nothing, it's fine 20:31:18 you wrote the right thing 20:31:35 -!- adu has joined. 20:33:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:33:35 -!- pdxleif has joined. 21:04:30 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:05:09 -!- Albert_ has joined. 21:11:57 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:18:30 -!- Albert_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:22:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:28:17 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:18 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:18 -!- mitchs has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:19 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:19 -!- ineiros_ has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:19 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:21 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 21:28:30 -!- mitchs has joined. 21:28:32 -!- b_jonas has joined. 21:28:32 -!- ineiros has joined. 21:28:51 -!- EgoBot has joined. 21:28:52 -!- tromp has joined. 21:33:56 -!- olsner has joined. 21:38:12 Do you have Family Channel on your television? 21:39:16 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:39:20 sigh ... how do I quote an @foo on github so it doesn't get treated as an @mention thing, but gets displayed as ordinary text? 21:39:40 I don't know? 21:39:53 `@foo` disables the @mention but adds some markup... 21:39:54 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: @foo`: not found 21:43:35 * int-e tries #github... sorry. 21:43:38 int-e: Does \@foo not do that? 21:44:07 Melvar: unfortunately, no. The \ is displayed, and the @foo is treated as before. 21:44:25 That is quite broken. 21:44:45 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:45:59 (I keep running into this because @ is lambdabot's command prefix. Using `` for it is okay-ish, but not what I want.) 21:54:15 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:00:39 int-e: Maybe @⁢foo? 22:14:09 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 22:15:01 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:17:25 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:21:31 wow, #github is dead. 22:52:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:00:35 -!- adu has joined. 23:01:52 -!- CADD has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:27:52 @tell boily fungot: I wouldn't mind cats or dogs or diamondies pouring down. as long as it isn't any more snow. <-- i suspect diamondies would be even harder on the car drivers. btw oslo was also unexpectedly hit by snow yesterday, complete chaos at the traditional start of easter vacation week. 23:27:52 Consider it noted. 23:27:52 oerjan: slime for scheme48: http://paste.lisp.org/ list 23:27:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:28:16 fungot: i already have more slime in my life than i need, thank you very much. 23:28:16 oerjan: it wasn't a dream). 23:28:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 23:28:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:28:49 -!- yorick has joined. 23:29:47 -!- scott has joined. 23:30:09 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:31:55 fungot: eww 23:31:55 int-e: no not fnord :p.) appears to be writing about the implementation. 23:32:24 -!- yorick has joined. 23:32:24 -!- yorick has quit (Changing host). 23:32:24 -!- yorick has joined. 23:35:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:46:35 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 23:47:54 fizzie: putting an ⁠ after the @ "works". 23:48:04 `unidecode @⁠foo 23:48:07 ​[U+0040 COMMERCIAL AT] [U+2060 WORD JOINER] [U+0066 LATIN SMALL LETTER F] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] 23:48:25 But may confuse people wanting to cut&paste. Oh well. 23:48:53 int-e: hey, i also use en_us.utf-8 for essentially the same reason. 23:49:16 I use en_GB.UTF-8 because why not 2015-03-29: 00:01:00 -!- roasted42 has joined. 00:01:29 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 00:01:29 -!- roasted42 has joined. 00:01:29 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 00:02:56 int-e: I had an INVISIBLE TIMES there. 00:03:16 fizzie: oh. I didn't see that :P 00:03:26 `unidecode @⁢foo 00:03:27 ​[U+0040 COMMERCIAL AT] [U+2062 INVISIBLE TIMES] [U+0066 LATIN SMALL LETTER F] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] 00:03:59 may you live in 00:04:22 `unidecode in 00:04:23 ​[U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+0020 SPACE] 00:04:31 hmph 00:05:20 stupid irssi sticks the zero-width characters too closely to what's on their left 00:05:39 i vaguely thought DEL bypassed that, but apparently not 00:06:47 I only use the C locale because all of the others are no good 00:07:02 ⁢ 00:09:13 oerjan: tricky. I had to select several lines in emacs to get this to paste. I saw something funny - emacs' cursor becomes narrow (1 pixel wide) when it's on a zero-width thing. 00:09:30 fancy 00:10:12 `unidecode ⁢ 00:10:12 ​[U+2062 INVISIBLE TIMES] 00:10:24 ok it was easy enough with gvim 00:10:25 And I guess the point is to distinguish a⁢x⁢e from axe... 00:10:42 if only because it makes no attempt to make that char actually zero-width... 00:10:44 (The former meaning a*x*e) 00:11:39 actually emacs is slightly bad - it makes the character one pixel wide. 00:13:53 I saw the newest Magic: the Gathering new keywords, megamorph and exploit, and then, I try to think how to make up stuff that is using that. 00:17:20 My opinion is whether or not it makes it one pixel wide ought to depend on the font in use; that data should be included in the font metrics. 00:17:57 it's a fixed width font, I expect all characters to have a multiple of the base width as their width 00:18:57 In such case they ought to do that then and not misalign due to being one pixel wide 00:19:06 (it's bad enough that double-width and zero-width characters exist, and don't bring up the half-wit space) 00:19:55 I would imagine half-width spaces are fullwidth in most monospace fonts? 00:20:07 boredom leads to this https://gist.github.com/izabera/818223f3ff7081052ed6 00:20:09 I think double-width isn't that bad, it's easy enough to deal with 00:20:38 izabera: you are a bad person :( 00:20:59 D: 00:21:17 that's not even the worst code i ever wrote 00:22:51 how about this https://gist.github.com/izabera/0205fe4507db17bd93f9 00:23:50 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:26:35 cute. 00:27:09 ^^ 00:27:20 too bad it isn't a polyglot :p 00:27:28 bu neat 00:27:30 but* 00:28:16 well i guess one could just add #declare then { #declare fi } 00:28:21 and it would be polyglot 00:28:25 i think 00:30:34 -!- roasted42 has joined. 00:30:40 ah dammit, the first line will never be valid c 00:30:55 bummer :P 00:30:59 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 00:30:59 -!- roasted42 has joined. 00:30:59 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 00:31:17 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Read error: No route to host). 00:33:13 You could remove the shebang and invoke it with "bash" or "clang" directly 00:33:33 yeah i guess so 00:36:32 Also, without the shebang it's still executable for most purposes. 00:37:17 (with a call to execlp or execvp, which is what's *mostly* used, then if the binary can't be understood then the libc passes it to the shell) 00:39:03 it's the kernel that returns ENOEXEC 00:39:11 and the shell tries to eat it 00:39:26 it would also try to execute perl or python :\ 00:46:45 izabera: No, what happens is: the kernel returns ENOEXEC if it's not a valid executable, and the libc implementation of execvp or execlp specifically calls /bin/sh $file. 00:47:08 Perl or Python can't be run via this execution path, except if the shell script happens to say to. 00:47:25 oh uhm 00:47:33 are you sure? i thought it was in a subshell 00:47:42 good to know 00:48:39 I am confident, by which I mean "that's what the spec says, and also what's in the sixth edition Unix source". 00:48:44 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:49:01 6th edition D: 00:49:03 i wasn't even born 00:49:31 Once a while back (it's somewhere in esoteric logs) I actually looked up how far back this behavior goes. 00:49:41 I stopped caring when I hit 6th edition. 00:49:48 haha 00:50:02 "Meh, it's basically forever" 00:50:09 -!- heroux has joined. 00:50:43 "Do NOT hardcode terminal escape sequences. Use tput with the cap-names from the table below to get the right code for your terminal." b-but.. all terminals today ought to support ECMA-35 anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem 00:51:04 Oh, it's the exec*p functions that do this. 00:51:24 FireFly: Yes, IMO you should just use the terminal codes these days. 00:51:38 I've been half-thinking of doing a simple-curses that just does ECMA-35. 00:52:01 nblessings 00:52:18 Sorry, ECMA-48. 00:52:29 ECMA-35 is the charset switching junk. 00:52:35 oh 00:52:41 ECMA-48 is the terminal codes. 00:52:44 I mixed them up then 00:53:04 The answer to *ECMA-35* is "Just use UTF-8." :) 00:53:16 Indeed 00:54:19 I didn't know that... "The name "ANSI escape sequence" dates from 1981 when ANSI adopted ECMA-48 as their standard, ANSI X3.64". 00:55:30 thanks #esoteric 00:56:59 Use VT100 character graphics for the G1 set and ASCII for the G0 set. 00:57:33 I wish the terminal would somehow get metadata about from which process/task some particular output originated, instead of getting the output from the shell/all programs running in it interleaved in one stream 00:58:05 Kinda tricky though. 00:58:22 The design of the Unix terminal system is entirely around old serial terminals. 00:59:11 You could probably still multiplex it in one stream in the end, but annotate with escape sequences somehow saying "the following is from the process with PID foo" 00:59:28 Use pipes if you want to add such annotations in, is one way 01:02:18 -!- vodkode has joined. 01:08:07 wow how time flies 01:08:25 haha same timezone 01:08:48 well it's simultaneous in most of europe 01:09:11 @time izabera 01:09:12 Local time for izabera is Sun, 29 Mar 2015 03:11:16 +0200 01:09:19 o_O 01:09:19 but yeah 01:09:31 oh 01:09:32 LAMBDABOT SEES ALL 01:10:02 it just sent a ctcp request >.> 01:10:09 -!- vodkode has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:10:23 THAT'S JUST WHAT IT WANTS YOU TO THINK 01:10:41 well then it worked cause i'm totally thinking it :P 01:12:12 FIENDISH 01:12:24 Is there such a thing as a television show called "This is not a pipe"? 01:12:44 http://uploads7.wikiart.org/images/rene-magritte/the-treachery-of-images-this-is-not-a-pipe-1948(2).jpg 01:13:03 i assumed zzo38 already knew about the painting 01:13:08 aww 01:13:17 Yes I know about Magritte's paintings 01:13:32 we have an esolang based on it, after all. 01:14:45 really 01:14:54 Yes, I saw that too 01:14:58 is there a bot command to search the wiki? 01:15:12 Not as far as I know. 01:15:20 zzo38: apparently there's at least a tv show _episode_ of "switched at birth" 01:15:36 @google magritte site:esolangs.org 01:15:36 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Magritte 01:15:37 Title: Magritte - Esolang 01:15:59 To fix it you would make a SQLite interface for searching the wiki and then make that extension loadable by SQLite on HackEgo, and now you can search the wiki using SQL commands. 01:16:11 well that's an impressive language :) 01:16:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:21:44 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 01:26:27 Here I was hoping to go to bed at a reasonable time, and then I suddenly lose an hour 01:30:08 alas, we were merely fooling ourselves 01:31:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:37:26 We were just surprised by the DST switch happening at 01am instead of the 03am it does in Finland. 01:41:22 so same time, really 01:43:42 Yes, from the "same instant" point of view. 01:43:49 as oerjan said... 01:44:28 Hmm, this client isn't doing DST. 01:44:36 int-e: REDUNDANT TIME 01:44:49 Oh, it's in "Etc/UTC" timezone. 01:44:57 Astrolog requires setting DST manually 01:45:21 fizzie: a danger of living in britain, surely 01:46:12 -!- int-e has left ("TIME TRAVELING CHICKEN"). 01:46:12 -!- int-e has joined. 01:46:59 Yes. I set this VPS in wintertime, and just assumed it was following local time. Though I guess for a VPS "Etc/UTC" is a sensible default. 01:56:48 -!- boily has joined. 02:01:27 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 02:04:14 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Quit: bye). 02:19:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: COPYCAT CHICKEN). 02:34:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:45:30 How many things are wrong with this picture? http://zzo38computer.org/img_12/vid2.jpg 02:50:10 Zero. 02:52:19 There are two contradictory specifications of the duration, for one thing. The title, pictures, and description are from three different movies. 03:03:48 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1). 03:06:37 -!- Zefphex has joined. 03:06:50 I aam att emerald city comic con 03:06:55 and iiiam lost 03:06:58 Whop 03:19:19 -!- nys has quit (Quit: sleep). 03:23:51 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:24:51 Hm. If I'm not mistaken, there's only one totally ordered set S, up to order isomorphism, with the following two properties. 03:25:54 Every subset of S has a least upper bound; and there exists a countable subset T of S such that given two distinct points in S, there is an element of T between them. 03:26:03 -!- heroux has joined. 03:29:31 I say this because Wikipedia says this: 03:29:33 "It is a theorem that any linear continuum with a countable dense subset and no maximum or minimum element is order-isomorphic to the real line." 03:30:24 -!- adu has joined. 03:41:58 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:42:08 izabera: these bash things are disgusting. I love it 03:44:40 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:48:29 tswett: Is there an element of T between them? 03:48:44 Let me see 03:55:08 -!- dianne has joined. 03:58:25 -!- Zefphex has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:58:46 -!- Zefphex has joined. 04:03:45 -!- Zefphex has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:16:31 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:16:49 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:47:22 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 04:47:22 -!- nisstyre has joined. 05:36:41 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:44:36 I have the picture of a grid of Java/C/PHP/Ruby/Haskell as seen by the fans of those programming languages; now make up the new one, to also include more programming language, such as: C++, SQL, INTERCAL, Perl, Python, BASIC, Forth, Lisp, Scheme, assembly language, TeX, LaTeX, and possibly a few others. 05:50:56 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:00:32 -!- zadock has joined. 06:03:09 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:03:35 -!- ^v has joined. 06:16:21 http://zzo38computer.org/img_10/quickbasicerror.png 06:24:30 -!- vodkode has joined. 06:49:48 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:07:10 -!- heroux has joined. 07:08:18 -!- izabera has changed nick to darthvader. 07:08:45 -!- darthvader has changed nick to izabera. 07:26:08 izabera: good disguise 07:26:27 lol 07:51:44 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:02:07 -!- Lymia has quit (Quit: Hug~♪). 08:02:21 -!- Lymia has joined. 08:22:45 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 08:45:28 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:47:32 -!- heroux has joined. 09:15:51 Have you ever heard of a TV show called "Slug Terra"? 09:23:53 no 09:25:03 I have never heard of such thing until a week ago, and that was at the night time, which enabled me to notice something that I probably wouldn't have otherwise noticed. 09:26:38 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:31:03 Do you know what kind of stuff I would notice due to such thing? 09:41:24 i promise i will stop spamming this but i made it so much better https://gist.github.com/izabera/818223f3ff7081052ed6 09:43:58 OK I will look 09:44:22 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:06:43 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:06:55 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:36:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:40:32 -!- shikhin has joined. 10:40:50 -!- shikhin has quit (Client Quit). 11:09:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:11:18 and iiiam lost <-- just look for the foglios hth 11:12:24 booth 704 hth 11:14:55 hehe 11:15:16 I'm wondering how helpful this advice can be, 8 hours after the plea for help :) 11:15:34 and while he's not on the channel 11:15:50 fungot, how can you fit 500 sheep in a truck? 11:15:51 b_jonas: have you ever been to europe? 11:16:34 fungot: yes 11:16:34 b_jonas: perhaps in one of my favourites!!! eheheheheeh and which were exact. expect you have to 11:16:36 but hey, maybe _someone_ here is there. although why they'd then be reading the channel messages i don't know. 11:17:11 fungot: hey not _all_ europeans know how to handle sheep badly. 11:17:11 oerjan: but what about ( for a hcoop account, in case you have destroyed the fnord of a 11:17:15 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Gotta go for now). 11:18:00 destroying fnords, a life mission 11:18:20 b_jonas: maybe... http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/sheep-rain-down-on-cars-as-truck-tips-over-highway-20120531-1zl0w.html 11:18:22 seriously, the news says that today the trailer of a truck on the highway has tipped to the side, and that half of the 500 sheep the truck had carried has died 11:18:45 int-e: ah, a different similar accident 11:19:17 int-e: http://www.hirado.hu/2015/03/29/kamionbaleset-miatt-lezarjak-az-m7-est-zalakomarnal/ is today's news 11:19:29 It'd be easier with dead sheep, I presume. Though perhaps you want to cool the bodies then, and then it becomes harder again. 11:19:54 int-e: the news specifically says the sheep died in the accident, so they were probably alive before 11:20:05 but maybe the trailer tipped because there were too many sheep 11:20:33 it's already scary how a double-decker bus can carry 80 humans, and that's without a trailer 11:20:39 google translate, do not let me down now 11:21:46 i saw in the newspaper about modern cruiseships, putting 5000 people on a boat no matter how safe sounds like tempting fate to me 11:22:38 -!- H2O1 has joined. 11:22:45 oerjan: yeah, it's scarier with humans these days because with humans you assume the intention is to deliver all of them alive 11:22:53 _assume_ 11:22:54 whereas with sheep or slaves you can't be sure about that 11:23:16 `relcome H2O1 11:23:57 * oerjan whacks HackEgo upside the head 11:24:29 ​H2O1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 11:24:36 hm wiki loaded 11:24:51 oerjan: assume because if a human dies in such an accident, their insurance company will sue the transport company 11:25:07 -!- H2O1 has left. 11:26:02 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 11:26:43 oerjan: so what do you think about putting more than 500 people into a flying aluminium can with wings? 11:27:26 MADNESS, I TELL YOU 11:27:29 b_jonas: I've found a number of similar incidents in to 100-200 sheep range. I guess 500 is rather high. 11:27:41 s/to/the/ 11:31:25 haha. "Researchers have managed to get two computers to communicate using heat and thermal sensors." 11:32:41 (from https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/03/yet_another_com.html ) 11:37:57 next up, alien computers communicating through biological evolution 11:38:59 or maybe sirens of titan already did that 11:39:55 * oerjan sometimes wonders if it's a bad idea to read all these plot synopsises on wikipedia 11:40:55 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:41:53 i suppose the next step is to use big bangs 11:43:25 wait, this is clearly the _real_ purpose of the bible code hth 11:43:36 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:43:56 oerjan: so that's why they built the LHC? 11:44:28 to communicate with extra-universal(uh, is that right?) aliens? 11:44:58 int-e: good thinking 11:45:34 i think extra-universal is about as technically incorrect as extra-dimensional 11:46:32 i'm not sure there _is_ an agreed scientific term for such a thing. 11:47:10 What is the relationship to inter-universal Teichmüller theory? 11:47:19 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:47:38 i do not know, i do not understand inter-universal Teichmüller theory. 11:47:47 wait, so the universal turing machine was not about communicating with aliens? 11:48:09 Koen_: only a small step towards it hth 11:49:00 although there has been some scifi where you can to weird stuff with math 11:49:34 i never finished reading that one that was linked here 11:50:13 (mind you, that goes for most books these days) 11:50:52 vernor vinge has some interesting stuff about communication and intelligence 11:53:45 nah, there are much better ways to communicate with parallel universes 11:53:52 god i hate muffled loud bass seeping through the building 11:55:53 b_jonas: you need a communication channel, which would tend to be highly dependent on exactly how you're connecting to the parallel universe... 11:56:02 for example, you can swap people between the universes through transporter accidents, 11:56:39 or you can leave a bowl of tungsten on your desk and hope that psychic aliens from an alternate universe will repalce it with a message written in some radioactive isotope. 11:56:57 either of those seem more efficient than big bangs. 11:57:31 well, unless you're the kind of guy referenced in the title text of the butterflies xkcd strip 11:57:49 http://www.xkcd.com/378/ 11:58:53 C-x M-x M-bigbang 11:59:02 *c 12:02:38 oerjan: if you have fish seeping through the building I think you have bigger problems 12:03:41 FireFly: hey i already made that joke yesterday 12:03:56 darn 12:04:41 FireFly: http://www.walltanks.com/ hth 12:04:45 's ok, i was hoping someone would do that 12:05:22 now to figure out the context... 12:06:09 Ah. Bass. Right. 12:07:06 god damn it these earbuds have too much bass <-- bass are inferior to babel fishes, anyhow <-- that's a multitude of several fish? 12:07:26 -!- erdic has joined. 12:15:54 int-e: wat 12:17:03 spot the idiot https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1202858 12:17:21 @google plural of fish 12:17:22 http://grammarist.com/usage/fish-fishes/ 12:17:22 Title: Fish vs. fishes - Grammarist 12:17:59 izabera: . o O ( Why does my monitor turn into a mirror when I visit that page? ) 12:18:26 haha 12:20:41 funny nick, superusersdo 12:30:38 would you like mustard with your sausage, fungot? 12:30:38 b_jonas: ok, depending on what you mean by persistance...) ( span...)) is 12:30:47 oh no, he's having a lisp again 12:34:09 fungoth 12:34:09 oerjan: functions, macros, that can be done with the engine... the scsh wiki doesn't even have a compare-and-swap? :) 12:34:31 hehe 12:44:55 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:54:33 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:02:47 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Aldaron * New user account 13:06:18 -!- boily has joined. 13:13:53 tswett: sounds like that has to be isomorphic to a closed interval 13:14:29 @tell tswett sounds like that has to be isomorphic to a closed interval 13:14:29 Consider it noted. 13:15:43 :t foldr 13:15:44 Foldable t => (a -> b -> b) -> b -> t a -> b 13:15:55 :t Prelude.foldr 13:15:56 Foldable t => (a -> b -> b) -> b -> t a -> b 13:16:06 yay! 13:18:35 oerjan: yup. 13:19:35 and a simple way to prove it is to find an isomorphism between your T and the rationals in some interval 13:20:28 a stern-brocot tree, say 13:21:20 (the "some" is because you didn't specify whether T might contain the maximum or minimum) 13:21:22 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:22:30 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 13:22:54 Actually, a one-element set has both those properties as well. 13:23:03 oh... 13:23:11 fiendish 13:23:27 So, say also that the minimum and the maximum must be distinct. 13:23:53 "at least two elements" 13:23:57 Or that. 13:24:11 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 13:25:27 Now, the "given two points in S, there's an element of T between them" thing lets you come up with a monomorphism from the rationals in [0, 1] to T, assuming that T has at least two points. 13:28:47 because T is countable, it's not hard to make it onto as well 13:28:56 modulo end points 13:30:35 in fact, if T is a sequence you get a constructive map 13:35:53 -!- roasted42 has joined. 13:37:20 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 13:37:20 -!- roasted42 has joined. 13:37:20 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 14:06:43 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:08:35 -!- heroux has joined. 14:11:40 `relcome TheM4ch1n3 14:11:51 @massages-loud 14:11:51 oerjan said 14h 43m 58s ago: fungot: I wouldn't mind cats or dogs or diamondies pouring down. as long as it isn't any more snow. <-- i suspect diamondies would be even harder on the car drivers. btw oslo was also unexpectedly hit by snow yesterday, complete chaos at the traditional start of easter vacation week. 14:11:52 ​TheM4ch1n3: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:12:07 i thnk TheM4ch1n3 has been here before 14:12:25 it may be the case, but `relcomes are idempotent. 14:12:31 ooh 14:12:47 @metar CYUL 14:12:48 CYUL 291400Z 22012KT 30SM SKC M05/M13 A3021 RMK SLP233 14:13:10 * boily is still naïvely waiting for normal temperatures... 14:13:18 @metar ESSB 14:13:19 ESSB 291350Z 14015KT 7000 -RA BKN007 03/02 Q0989 R12/29//54 14:13:21 btw, hellørjan hth. 14:13:22 @metar ENVA 14:13:23 ENVA 291350Z VRB02KT 9999 VCSH FEW026 BKN045 08/M01 Q0982 BECMG 25012KT RMK WIND 670FT 07002KT 14:13:33 I realised I have an airport closer to me than ESSA 14:13:42 ahoily 14:14:37 @metar CYOW 14:14:38 CYOW 291400Z 23007KT 15SM FEW240 M03/M13 A3020 RMK CI1 SLP234 14:14:42 @metar CYYZ 14:14:42 CYYZ 291400Z CCA 23008KT 15SM SCT230 M01/M10 A3025 RMK CI3 CONTRAIL SLP253 14:14:50 @metar CYVR 14:14:50 CYVR 291400Z 06011KT 12SM -RA FEW019 OVC042 09/07 A3019 RMK SF1SC7 SLP223 14:15:11 That's quite the contrast 14:15:13 so you have to be on the other end of the country to enjoy something palatable. 14:15:21 CHEMTRAIL 14:15:31 WESTCOAST 14:20:22 @metar LOWI 14:20:23 LOWI 291350Z VRB02KT 9999 FEW060 BKN100 15/05 Q1006 NOSIG 14:20:32 nice spring weather 14:23:28 . o O ( Oh yeah, the tell-tale sign of growing up: Doing household chores as a means of procrastination. ) 14:26:34 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:26:47 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HYPERREAL CHICKEN). 14:27:04 -!- heroux has joined. 14:27:09 when you procrastinate the household chores, what's that a sign of? 14:27:24 depression hth 14:30:19 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has left. 14:30:35 olsner: lazyness 14:36:18 -!- TieSoul has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.). 14:39:28 olsner: normal teenager behavior 14:43:47 Just only keep two of each type of utensil and two plates 14:44:24 then washing the dishes involves less work 14:44:39 especially if everything is steel or aluminum 14:47:54 -!- TieSoul has joined. 14:53:46 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:12:20 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:27:46 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:31:00 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:37:09 I came up with an idea for how string literals could work in my amazing new programming language I'm creating. 15:37:33 But this idea has dire consequences. 15:38:11 Here's one way of writing the string literal for the word "melee": "melee" 15:38:17 Here's another way: ""_melee_"" 15:38:27 And here's another way: ""emeeleeeee"" 15:39:26 Also, here's one way of writing the string literal for an apostrophe: "'" 15:39:30 Here's another way: '''''''' 15:40:09 what string literal is AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA twh 15:40:24 empty string? 15:40:31 Well, the easiest way to write that would be "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA". 15:40:39 But another way would be ""AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"". 15:40:43 no no, the other way around hth 15:40:54 Oh. That's not a string literal; that's an identifier. 15:41:02 fiendish 15:41:56 Another way of writing "I came, I saw, I conquered" would be this: "",I came,, I saw,, I conquered,"" 15:42:05 That should give you the general idea of how these weird and silly string literals work. 15:42:31 Let's see if lambdabot magically understands these. 15:42:33 > ""AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"" 15:42:34 Not in scope: 15:42:34 data constructor ‘AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA... 15:44:02 perfectly hth 15:44:49 The nice thing about these string literals is that they can contain apostrophes and double quotes with no problems at all. 15:45:10 ""OOOKAYO"" 15:45:23 ""_Martha said, "'Get over here,' he said."_"" 15:45:31 See, you're getting the hang of it. 15:45:38 Come back tomorrow for lesson 2! 15:45:46 yay! 15:46:13 *""yyyayy!y"" 15:57:31 `rerere "yay" 15:57:32 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rerere: not found 15:57:36 ^rerere "yay" 15:57:36 "y"ay"yay"ya"y" 16:03:07 tswett: have you considered lua-style [[strings]] or [==[strings]==] or ... 16:03:33 FireFly: those were part of the inspiration for this idea. 16:07:54 ^rerere abcde 16:07:55 abacbadcbedcede 16:08:39 ^rerere abcd 16:08:39 a1a12ab2b23bc3c34cd4d4d 16:08:55 Disappointing 16:10:13 I prefer hollerith 16:10:37 how about C++ raw string literals? 16:10:52 5"melee 16:11:35 they're useful because they let you use multi-character delimiters, so you don't have to choose a single character that can't appear in the string 16:11:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ""alaatera""). 16:11:49 b_jonas: I'm not familiar with those. 16:12:31 tswett: the syntax is like this, R"(foo)" is equivalent to "foo", and so is R"bar(foo)bar" 16:12:55 Tyhöistä ja alaatera olen. 16:13:35 in raw string literals, nothing other than the delimiter has a special meaning. backslashes, parenthesis, double quotes, single quotes, question marks are all literal. newlines are allowed and aren't translated, the newlines gets in the value of the string as it's present in the source, which could be cr-lf or lf or whatever. 16:14:10 backslash escapes or trigraphs can't be used in such string literals. you can concatenate multiple raw string literals by juxtaposing them, just like with ordinary string literals. 16:16:29 I've also thought about doing that sort of thing. 16:17:40 "" (Note, by the way, that the custom delimiter can't be whitespace. This message is the empty string, followed by a bunch of identifiers, followed by the empty string again.) "" 16:17:59 Yes, "can't" is a valid identifier even though ' is a string delimiter. "(Note," is also a valid identifier. 16:18:25 fungot: what's your opinion on all this? 16:18:25 tswett: to return ( 1... 10) and then under my name point out the damage that regular bikes can do to prevent crimes from happening, and when 16:18:32 hollerith is easier to generate reliably 16:18:49 but harder for humans 16:19:32 'bash-style literals aren'\''t hard for programs to generate.' 16:20:00 tswett: but then you can't denote the empty string by "" 16:20:18 b_jonas: what do you mean? 16:21:08 if you use two double quotes (rather than three like python does) as a delimiter, then you can't use two double quotes for the traditional meaning of a string literal with an empty string value 16:21:19 Hmm, how about a compromise in the style of Joel Spolsky's 14"fucked strings" 16:22:05 in other words, have a length, delimiter, the string and then a required end delimiter 16:22:58 I'm never using two quote marks, alone, as a delimiter. 16:24:23 """This is a valid string literal consisting of the string S, a quotation mark, S again, another quotation mark, and a period, where the string S is "This is a valid string literal consisting of the string S, a quotation mark, S again, another quotation mark, and a period, where the string S is ".""" 16:25:36 the empty string in hollerith is 0" 16:25:50 in quoted holerith it is 0"" 16:35:46 In math, it's ɛ. 16:41:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:42:17 Which apparently I could type if I only had a key. 16:52:00 tswett: no, it's ε actually. "ɛ" is the pronunciation symbol that looks the same. 16:52:53 (or at least may look the same, depending on the font you use for greek letters) 16:54:16 come on people, don't keep mixing up similar looking characters 17:05:35 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:15:13 -!- orin has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:16:12 -!- oren has joined. 17:18:24 hollerith strings have an additional problem. Consider 2"私 which is valid if the encoding is shift-jis, but the number needs to be 3 in utf-8 17:20:23 That isn't too much of a problem if one program uses one character encoding for one string literal. 17:20:43 And that changing the encoding isn't allowed. 17:21:11 (This is independent of whether or not the programming language cares about encoding or not.) 17:22:37 right. as long as code is never converted from one encoding to another there is no problem 17:23:02 tswett: you could get a modifier by abusing ISO_Group_Latch 17:23:53 `α 17:23:54 .u ε 17:23:58 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: α: not found 17:24:10 Uh, what channel was that a command in. 17:24:16 Yes, and my opinion is that the code shouldn't be converted from one encoding to another. 17:24:28 αλφαβετ 17:25:05 b_jonas: whoops. I meant to say ε, not ε. 17:25:21 tswett: those are the same 17:25:28 Uh, rather. 17:25:36 they look the same to me 17:25:48 ɛ vs. ε 17:25:49 I meant to say "I meant to say ε, not ɛ.", not "I meant to say ε, not ε." 17:26:30 oren: shouldn't the number refer to the number of characters following rather than the number of bytes following? 17:26:40 Everyone knows code is made of characters, not bytes. 17:26:57 that makes it rather hard to allow strings in several encodings? 17:27:30 I think lenght-prefixed isn't very user-friendly in a source language 17:27:43 length-prefixed, even 17:27:48 As in, in the middle of some source code that's in one encoding, embed a string literal that's in a different encoding in order to get those bytes? 17:28:11 Everyone knows strings are made of characters, not bytes. 17:28:34 tswett: now nest that two more levels exponentially, and put ∈ in somewhere! 17:28:42 yeah, consider a program that has to operate in China (with utf-16) and japan (with shift-jis) 17:29:20 there is no such thing as an encoding-independent "character" 17:30:19 Just mandate one of the Unicode encoding as the True Encoding for source files 17:30:35 Unicode has han unification 17:32:04 Firefly: and mandate conversion at run time from unicode to local encoding? 17:33:11 encodign conversions are not fast 17:34:29 -!- GeekDude has joined. 17:34:57 much better to keep string for each locale in its local encoding 17:36:50 note that many multibyte encodings such as UTF-16 can't be mixed with ascii properly without hollerith, because the byte " can occur as part of a character 17:40:51 I thought encoding conversion was fast enough usually 17:40:57 Depends on the encoding I suppose 17:41:40 Unicode normalization is I believe the main problem. 17:42:09 Oh, that's true I suppose 17:42:53 conversion of shift-jis TO unicode is easy 17:43:26 unicode in general can't be converted back 17:45:08 (which isn't usually a problem, but if you care about distinctions that unicode doesn't carea bout after normalization...) 17:46:27 I wonder what happens if I convert a string with french accents in it into shift-jis 17:48:08 Why not simply refuse to even deal in not-UTF-8? 17:48:23 And leave legacy charsets for legacy applications. 17:49:04 because there are uncoding used today which aren't utf-8 17:49:27 windows uses UTF-16 for non-english, for exaple 17:49:30 Normally you should not use this Hollerith notation anyways, so isn't too much problem 17:49:47 And that's a massive bug on Windows' part. 17:50:03 according to you 17:50:07 (keeping in mind, of course, that UTF-16 <-> UTF-8 is lossless for valid strings) 17:50:41 and much of the japanese internet uses Shift-JIS 17:50:44 I think you should mandate ASCII as the True Encoding for source files 17:50:58 Shift-JIS is also dying in Japan. Quite rapidly. 17:51:00 And allow UTF-8 and PC character set and stuff too, but disallow UTF-16 17:51:05 Mojibake sucks. 17:51:19 zzo38: that's easy if you're in an english-speaking country 17:51:29 still somewhat easy in a european country 17:51:41 (with a latin-based orthography) 17:51:52 Then it quickly gets more impractical.. 17:53:19 oren: what kind of distinctions, by the way? 17:53:42 If the programming language isn't using non-English words in general, then you should use ASCII as the input character set. String literals and comments can use other encodings, or even just written in a ASCII representation and converted to other encodings using macros (you can even convert UTF-8 to UTF-16 using macros then). Also some things just aren't in Unicode anyways, and Unicode normalization and stuff confuses everything 17:54:34 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 17:54:38 Nevertheless if a comment is written in UTF-8 or Shift-JIS or ISO-8859-1 or whatever, the compiler shouldn't care. Same if it is a string literal it shouldn't care. 17:54:50 I agree with that 17:55:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:55:43 But some string literal syntaxes don't work with certain encodings 17:56:46 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:57:28 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:57:31 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 18:01:06 Does Shift-JIS make distinctions that Unicode doesn't? 18:01:12 No. 18:01:24 No known charsets do. 18:02:07 Then I don't see any obvious problem with saying that your source code consists of a sequence of Unicode characters. 18:02:09 And if they do, "a charset makes this distinction" is reason enough to add a char to Unicode. 18:04:02 Yeah, my impression is that Unicode cares a lot about translation into Unicode being reversible. 18:04:29 conversion of unicode back to shift-jis, is the problem, because in orer for source code to convert properly, it involves lots of normalization 18:04:54 ... no? 18:05:03 which isn't necessary if you KNOW your code consists only of sjis compatible characters 18:05:28 but the compiler can't know that 18:06:27 pikhq: yes, because unicode contains lots of characters that sjis doesn't distinguish 18:07:21 forget kanji, consider math-greek vs. greek? 18:07:26 It is incredibly unlikely in the process of compilation that the compiler magically introduced a bunch of characters that aren't in SJIS. 18:07:53 (or that it's freaking relevant -- why does the compiler have to be converting jack shit back to SJIS?) 18:08:31 otherwise you are converting at run time... which needs to be even more general 18:09:01 You... probably do otherwise. 18:09:27 Unless you are providing a damned weird execution environment where you're compile-time Unicode but run-time SJIS. 18:09:38 oren: are you saying that conversion from SJIS to Unicode is not reversible? 18:10:04 tswett: They are saying that SJIS->Unicode->COMPILER MAGIC->SJIS may not work. 18:10:17 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 18:10:25 Because a compiler is *really* going to magically introduce a bunch of random Unicode codepoints that aren't in SJIS. 18:10:28 correct, not if you want to use the same system for general unicode-to-sjis as for "unicode from sjis"->sjis 18:11:15 otherwise it is like you need a data type for "unicode, but guearanteed to have only the chars from sjis in it" 18:11:28 I'm quite amused, BTW, that you're arguing this with SJIS of all things. That is perhaps the single worst legacy charset in existence. 18:13:00 oren: I don't suppose you could give an example of some text where the SJIS-to-Unicode-to-SJIS conversion would fail? 18:13:11 SJIS is USED. WIDELY. I don't know where you're getting your information, but the PC games I bought last year don't work under wine becasue I need SJIS. 18:13:36 *siiigh* Windows boogs. 18:13:58 SJIS is *used*, yes. SJIS is also *objectively terrible*. 18:14:05 tswett: that's not the problem. the problem is that it would be slow because unicode is complicated 18:14:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:15:01 http://git.musl-libc.org/cgit/musl/tree/src/locale/iconv.c I dunno, that doesn't look that bad. 18:16:14 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:17:48 (by the by, here is Windows' fundamental execution model: everything, *everything* is Unicode. For purposes of legacy compat it has a number of legacy-charset functions that convert strings to/from Unicode before calling the real ones.) 18:18:14 iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0 18:18:48 (that Japanese programs happen to only ever use the legacy functions is, well, a bug.) 18:19:03 pikhq: according to you. 18:19:55 Lemme find the MSDN page. 18:20:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:21:33 (though it ends up being really obvious this is the way it *has* to work if you're familiar at all with NT internals) 18:21:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:21:42 iconv -fUTF-8 -tSHIFT-JIS | iconv -fSHIFT-JIS -tUTF-8 fails on a lot of stuff 18:22:05 It's more than likely the first bit that fails. 18:22:25 iconv -fSHIFT-JIS -tUTF-8 | iconv -fUTF-8 -tSHIFT-JIS should round-trip. 18:22:28 it fails on stuff that is supported in both charsets 18:22:36 Bullshit. 18:24:18  try that 18:24:29 Uh... 18:24:31 `unidecoe 18:24:38 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unidecoe: not found 18:24:41 `unidecode  18:25:04 U+E60A - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ee 98 8a UTF-16BE: e60a Decimal:  \  () \ Uppercase: U+E60A \ Category: Co (Other, Private Use) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) 18:25:16 WTF char is that supposed to be? 18:26:38 That... is not even remotely valid shift-jis. 18:27:18 how about hisone 誧 18:27:33 http://rikai.com/library/kanjitables/kanji_codes.sjis.shtml 18:28:31 (for clarification, the char you output the first time was 0xEE 0x98 0x8a. Which is *not a legal encoding in Shift-JIS*) 18:29:04 `unidecode 誧 18:29:05 ​[U+8AA7 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-8AA7] 18:30:25 The fuck is wrong with glibc iconv? 18:30:52 The fucking Unicode tables have that mapping. 18:32:47 Oh for the love of 18:33:08 "Shift-JIS" to glibc iconf refers to an old version of Shift-JIS that did not have the character. 18:33:16 Oh. 18:33:23 that explains that 18:33:29 iconv -fUTF-8 -tshift_jisx0213 18:36:19 that's a weird name, since the official sources call it shift-jis-2004 18:36:45 oh well, it makes sence 18:36:57 It's a standard from 2004, entitled JISx0213. 18:37:29 I don't think glibc much coordinates with your official source. 18:37:32 (IETF?) 18:39:40 http://x0213.org/. JISx0213 is a character set, Shift-jis is a method of encoding it. JISx0213 is like unicode, Shift-jis is like uft-8 18:39:57 sorry, shift-jis-2004 18:40:20 I know. 18:40:47 JISx0213 does include a definition of Shift-JIS IIRC. 18:40:59 Well, suppose I could just check, you did link to it. :) 18:41:44 I looked at the encoding table. they apparently have added a lot of characters to unicode to ensure compatibility 18:42:32 Yep. Unicode policy is that charsets should roundtrip, and country charsets cooperate to ensure this. 18:42:44 Yep, quite clearly defines Shift-JIS but also as "Shift-JIS-2004". 18:43:42 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: storm). 18:43:46 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 18:55:25 I dunno if they are cooperating. The jis-213 plane 2 characters 85-84 to 85-87 (that is, four variants of the grass radical) appear to spell out "fuck you han unifaction" to me 18:56:14 Hah. 18:57:39 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:58:20 -!- Melvar has joined. 19:01:42 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:01:42 -!- idris-bot has joined. 19:03:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:06:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:09:06 -!- heroux has joined. 19:23:39 -!- mitchs has quit (Quit: mitchs). 19:25:57 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 19:37:13 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:37:27 -!- mitchs has joined. 19:39:16 Do you write any UNIX-style filter programs much, or do you do other ways? 19:43:15 -!- shikhin has joined. 19:44:34 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 19:44:58 -!- Vorpal has joined. 19:44:58 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 19:44:58 -!- Vorpal has joined. 19:51:22 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:55:28 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSleep. 19:59:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:05:10 -!- dianne has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:07:38 -!- dianne has joined. 20:11:03 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:17:56 -!- heroux has joined. 20:22:22 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:29:05 I usually write programs as filters if they only have one input and one output. 20:32:29 Yes, but it seem as suitable for many things, to have one input and one output. 20:35:56 What. What does virtual void shade(Ray3D&) = 0; mean in C++ 20:36:30 i'm initializing the memeber funtion to zero? 20:36:55 [wiki] [[~ATH]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42240&oldid=42226 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) 20:37:56 oren: It means it's a pure virtual function. 20:38:06 Oh, it means the virtual function MUST be overridden? 20:38:10 Yes. 20:38:48 It's a bit weird, but more-or-less what that's doing is setting the vtable entry for the class to 0. 20:39:01 ok. that is a dumb syntax, but in a language where you bit-shift files by varibles, I can deal. 20:39:07 :) 21:03:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:09:03 Do vtables in C++ have to store functions or can you put other stuff in? 21:13:16 Like what? 21:13:37 Such as constants, I suppose 21:20:29 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:28:08 You could even in C, make something a bit like QueryInterface and using interface IDs made with macros and stuff. Still this is different than IUnknown; the pointer here is only to a constant vtable, or null if the interface is not supported; actually much simpler than Microsoft's version. But, I would be using some GNU extensions here, such as zero-length arrays. 21:48:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:52:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:05:35 tswett: to return ( 1... 10) and then under my name point out the damage that regular bikes can do to prevent crimes from happening, and when <-- this sounds reasonable but what happened to _our_ regular bike? 22:05:35 oerjan: are those all volunteers? " smerdyakov" " richter") t 22:06:17 fungot: do you hae a regular bike? 22:06:18 olsner: err never mind. :) :( :( :( :( 22:07:23 fungot: WHAT DID YOU DO TO BIKE 22:07:24 oerjan: the only problem was not showing any of the other 22:12:33 ooh, bike is a person! 22:12:40 or was, depending on fungot 22:12:40 olsner: unless after all these months i cant stand 4chan was the first step in converting infix to prefix notation 22:30:05 I thought the first step in converting infix to prefix is the google "[name of language] precedence table" 22:30:51 but I suppose if I posted it to 4chan Hitler will answer my quaestion 22:36:24 fungot: what did you do to Bike? 22:36:24 FireFly: c) execution time exceeds some limit on identifier length, there's a pdf somewhere with it. 22:36:35 oh ok 22:38:15 Sounds like a government conspiracy. 23:41:02 This is a C code to work objects supporting multiple interfaces: http://sprunge.us/aUEL 23:56:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: nuit). 2015-03-30: 00:05:04 -!- santiago has joined. 00:18:00 -!- santiago has left ("Saliendo"). 00:21:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:22:59 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:29:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:32:41 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:33:37 -!- CADD has joined. 00:36:05 -!- adu has joined. 00:53:53 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:02:08 -!- Lymia has joined. 01:05:05 -!- boily has joined. 01:35:41 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 01:41:10 fungot: chicken? 01:41:10 boily: i thought you were wanting to write up a complete stranger based solely on the arguments. 01:41:32 fungot: no, just post-modern associative chickenny vocabularism. 01:41:32 boily: i have a question about erc. do you do 01:41:42 fungot: no, I don't. what's erc twh? 01:41:43 boily: ha, i thought it was to become popular, it seems. :) i was just guessing!! 01:41:53 fungot: np. 01:41:53 boily: so k is ignored entirely 01:42:08 fungot: perhaps. «k» isn't really French, you know. 01:51:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:01:15 helloily 02:01:42 -!- boily has quit (Quit: OCCIPITAL CHICKEN. OCCIPITAL. OOOOOOCCCCIPPPITAAAÄÄÄL.). 02:01:56 goodboily 02:02:01 -!- boily has joined. 02:02:05 helloily 02:02:09 QUINTHELLOPIA! 02:02:21 is it bedtime? 02:02:23 going to sleep, but I have the cookies. will send you something canadian shortly. 02:02:29 i just found out 02:02:29 yup. lots of work tomorrow! 02:02:39 that i can buy maple leaf cookies at the corner store 02:02:45 WHAT? 02:02:51 i'm gonna bed as well 02:03:02 oh well. 02:03:18 goodnight! dreams of the Great White North! 02:03:24 :D 02:03:27 goodboilye 02:03:36 quinne nuitopia! 02:03:44 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 02:47:04 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:08:10 -!- vodkode has joined. 03:43:47 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:44:19 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:47:21 -!- vodkode has joined. 03:57:00 -!- adu has joined. 04:33:36 -!- gde33 has quit. 04:48:04 -!- Judas has joined. 05:17:38 I cannot easily duplicate schedules on the VCR, I have to rekey them each time. (It is possible to set a repeating schedule, but then it juts repeats forever and doesn't have many other options.) 05:18:13 VCR? 05:18:19 Yes 05:18:27 for VHS tapes? 05:18:56 Yes 05:19:10 Actually it is a VCR/DVD combo 05:19:18 ok 05:19:24 I have no idea about the scheduler 05:19:33 I was just curious, because its so rare today to hear about VHS 05:20:20 Well, I still use it, mostly for recording, but also can be used for watching other older movies and so on 05:21:10 If it is a recording I intend to keep then I will use DVD though. 05:23:25 The best editors for VHS were commodore ammigas 05:23:28 those video toaster rigs 05:23:51 I knew a guy that kept one until like 2008 (and used it) for doing transfers and edits on old svhs stuff 05:24:31 I have seen a manual for Video Toaster 05:24:50 well newtek began on the amiga 05:25:09 video toasters, lightwave and the late Aura paint (and currently TVPaint) were all amiga staples 05:25:59 The good old days of 68060 processors that run 25mhz and carried the BBS into the basement 05:26:54 -!- vodkode has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:38:26 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:38:40 O, that's what depression means? OK 05:39:51 -!- vodkode has joined. 06:07:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:09:02 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:09:36 -!- heroux has joined. 06:09:42 -!- vodkode has joined. 06:17:40 http://core.suckless.org 06:23:14 Oh awesome. 06:24:41 maybe :P 06:25:27 * pikhq is pleased, though not surprised, that they're not doubling up on efforts when there's actually something in the wild that does what they want without sucking. 06:28:11 Though sadly (if understandably) their rm does not conform to POSIX. 06:28:35 Did you know: rm -r is required to delete trees of arbitrary depth? 06:28:43 sure? 06:29:13 their rm does support -r 06:29:18 what's the issue? 06:29:28 But it only supports deleting file trees of limited depth. 06:29:33 Implicit, but limited depth. 06:29:48 One of a stack overflow or running out of file descriptors will cause it to fail. 06:29:55 ...wow 06:30:40 POSIX explicitly requires rm, and only rm, to literally deal with directory trees of *unbound* depth. 06:31:26 Though that they fail to meet this requirement is pretty understandable. It's possible to do, even portably and fairly safely, but it's dang *tricky*. 06:31:27 also rmdir 06:31:43 also several others i believe 06:32:09 like ls 06:32:40 Nah, not really. For all other utils POSIX doesn't require such behavior. 06:33:05 "The rm utility shall be able to descend to arbitrary depths in a file hierarchy, and shall not fail due to path length limitations (unless an operand specified by the user exceeds system limitations)." 06:33:56 This requirement is unique to rm. In part because you can't possibly meet it ordinarily. 06:34:33 why not? 06:34:43 rm, it's possible because you do not have to worry about visiting any node repeatedly. 06:35:24 mmh ok 06:36:03 You can literally just hold an fd referring to the top of the tree and do a depth-first search of the hierarchy, deleting everything you see. 06:36:21 And if you get to the bottom just do an fchdir back to the top of the tree. 06:36:41 (this is a pretty *inefficient* implementation, and you can do much better than that, but it's the simplest one that's correct) 06:36:49 Who runs the Heaven's Gate website? 06:37:03 Everything else you can "merely" deal in quite sizable trees. 06:37:20 Sgeo: A former member of Heaven's Gate. 06:38:52 It looks pro-Heaven's Gate though, unless they're keeping it up for archival purposes 06:39:02 That's precisely why they're keeping it up. 06:39:22 Ah 06:39:48 The current contents of the site are literally an edit to it that was made shortly before the cult committed mass suicide. 06:40:46 Also interesting, apparently that "hard copy editions may be ordered" blurb is still true. 06:44:03 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:48:14 * pikhq may have to write some patches for sbase 06:48:43 ... *after* I finish my current, nasty project. 06:48:53 which one? 06:49:07 windows.h for musl-on-Windows. 06:49:20 I said it was nasty. :) 06:49:38 didn't even know that musl was ported to windows 06:49:44 WIP. 06:50:05 good job i guess 06:50:27 Yep. No more dealing with the nastiness of mingw. 06:50:50 hey i started programming with mingw :( 06:51:01 in high school, with dev-c++ 06:51:12 * pikhq finds himself still a little mind-blown at the not-suck fork() implementation 06:52:51 lemme tell you something that's windows related: yesterday i wanted to watch a movie w/ my family on my father's computer but the movie didn't fit in my usb pendrive 06:53:06 so yeah of course it takes a minute with dd to split it 06:53:14 then i went to his computer with windows 06:53:21 how the fuck do i join the pieces? 06:53:41 i ended up downloading cygwin to have cat -_- 06:53:54 * izabera loves windows 06:54:01 copy /b files... dest 06:54:14 oh there was a way? -_- 06:54:27 When you have a single file as a destination DOS copy concatenates the files. 06:54:29 :) 06:54:52 well first of all that's fucking misleading 06:55:18 Nobody accused DOS of being even remotely reasonable. :) 06:57:37 Though its command prompt is rather more featureful than you might expect. 06:58:07 yeah sure -.- 06:58:09 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:58:09 (they straight-up copied Unix's file redirection syntax) 06:58:24 I won't accuse it of being good. 06:58:39 Indeed I dare say it's the worst CLI that you're likely to come across. 06:59:04 i actually tried to use rc as a shell 06:59:14 But it's got a lot of features hidden behind the scenes that people might not expect it to have. 06:59:44 IIRC rc's not bad, but it is gonna confuse the heck out of you if you expect a Bourne-esque shell. 06:59:44 the advantage: switch case syntax is decent instead of that crap of case/esac of the bourne shell that we still have today 06:59:52 the disadvantage: everything else 07:00:09 And it's also designed around the Plan9 environment, leaving it rather crippled on Unix. 07:00:10 -!- heroux has joined. 07:00:25 ok let's talk about plan9 07:00:30 plan9 is awful 07:00:36 e.g. it doesn't have any form of editing... because that's in Plan9's terminal layer. 07:00:40 wait lemme post something 07:00:44 Hey, it's got a lot of interesting ideas. 07:01:07 the only intersting idea is to return a string -_- 07:01:09 And (quite reasonably) everyone's gone out and pilfered the ideas from Plan9 that aren't terrible. 07:01:24 this is kill(1) from plan9port 07:01:26 http://arin.ga/hEooLf 07:01:36 So what's all that interesting about it, is no longer all that interesting because it's just stuff you expect. 07:01:51 $ plan9 kill bash 07:01:54 /bin/kill 317 # izabera 317 07:44 0:00 5104K wait bash 07:01:56 /bin/kill 398 # izabera 398 07:46 0:00 3248K wait bash 07:01:58 /bin/kill 428 # izabera 428 07:46 0:18 3316K pipe_w bash 07:02:05 that kill >>prints<< stuff 07:02:09 that you're supposed to pipe to rc 07:02:18 which will call the actual kill program 07:02:32 i can't believe how dumb it is 07:03:58 Well yeah. Plan9 defeats all your reasonable expectations of behavior, because it's what happens when you take a simple design philosophy, use it as much as possible, and damn expectations of familiarity *or* ease of use. :) 07:04:29 It's an academic research project and boy is it obvious. 07:04:35 yeah ok but -.- 07:04:53 also i hate their mouse driven interface for everything but that's just me 07:05:36 also their wm is fugly but again that's just my opinion 07:06:09 Its GUI is something only a user of pre-Mac GUIs could love. 07:06:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:06:52 As you might expect considering it's a direct descendent of a pre-Mac GUI. :) 07:06:58 oh lol 07:07:37 -!- heroux has joined. 07:07:54 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:08:17 Rio's basically the spiritual successor to the Blit terminal (which was a graphics terminal designed by Rob Pike for use with 8th Edition Unix). 07:08:28 ... From 1982. 07:08:58 i'm 10 years younger ._. 07:09:12 So no, I won't pretend Plan9 is a bastion of good design. But by god it's got a lot of interesting bits in it. 07:10:05 Course, a decent number of the *good* interesting bits have become standard parts of Unix systems, though maybe not implemented as well. 07:10:16 Most obviously is /proc. 07:10:34 does osx have /proc ? 07:10:48 Yes. 07:11:00 * izabera never used a mac 07:11:19 Oh blah *no* it doesn't. 07:11:34 It's like the one that doesn't, huh. 07:12:11 It's in Solaris, IRIX, Tru64, all the BSDs, Linux, AIX, and QNX, but *not* OS X. 07:12:13 you're too used to linux :P 07:13:29 It's in *4.4* BSD no less. Huh. 07:14:25 I suppose NeXT just forked too late to import it and nobody bothered adding it. 07:14:58 So, modern-ish Unices without /proc: OS X, HPUX. 07:15:43 I'm happy calling that a de facto standard considering that neither of those even implement POSIX 2008. :P 07:20:37 is there a userland that's strictly posix compliant and nothing more? 07:21:04 s/userland/system/ 07:22:07 Well, no. POSIX omits certain details that you might reasonably expect. 07:22:12 ... such as mount(1). 07:22:39 ok let me revert back to userland 07:23:15 i'd be interested in a full set of utilities that are exactly posix and nothing more 07:24:05 That too will have some omissions that will shock you, as well as differences in behavior between common implementations and what POSIX says. 07:24:14 DID YOU KNOW: tar is not specified in POSIX 2008. 07:24:20 i knew it 07:24:27 cpio 07:24:33 Nor is cpio. 07:24:38 no wait 07:24:44 gimme a sec 07:24:47 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:24:49 pax is 07:24:52 and the other thing 07:24:56 ar? 07:25:02 yeah 07:25:16 The file format of ar is not at all specified, only its interaction with the C compiler. 07:25:42 If the C compiler reads .zip archives, ar could be a zip archiver for all that POSIX cares. 07:25:48 And zcat is specified, but it does not deal in gzip files. 07:26:32 -!- heroux has joined. 07:26:58 -!- vodkode has joined. 07:28:16 I think those are the most interesting omissions or complete differences in behavior from what you might expect. 07:28:43 There's other utils that are missing of course, but those are mostly ones relevant to system administration but not necessarily normal use. 07:29:05 Or ones that are pretty obviously not standard utils but just common on distros, like md5sum. :) 07:29:14 or free 07:30:15 What I find really bizarre is some of the utils that POSIX *does* specify even though it has no real point in doing so. 07:30:29 Like, it specifies SCCS. 07:30:36 that's legacy 07:30:41 You may know that as the predecessor to the predecessor of CVS. 07:30:48 can't get rid of it 07:31:08 But POSIX does not need to specify it, now does it? 07:31:25 Keeping in mind that they *don't specify tar anymore*. 07:31:26 that standard is more descriptive than prescriptive 07:31:40 (yes, "anymore". They *used to*.) 07:32:26 Yes, but it also mostly subsets what it describes to what's got a point in being described, rather than describing what happens to be common to all Unices. 07:33:30 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:34:25 ... Hence why it has interesting bits like "the only file that POSIX requires to exist is /dev/null". 07:35:45 "//C:\POSIX\sh" would be a 100% conformant if bizarre path for the shell to be at. 07:35:58 no that's not true 07:36:19 posix requires /dev/zero /dev/null /dev/full and /dev/tty 07:36:24 and /tmp to be writeable 07:36:31 Oh, derp so it does. I missed a couple. 07:36:52 /dev/null is the memorable one to me for some reason. Go figure. 07:36:57 :P 07:37:36 And come to think of it, I doubt you can get away with atypical path separators even in //. 07:40:09 Oh, nope, that's still allowed. 07:40:19 "If a pathname begins with two successive characters, the first component following the leading characters may be interpreted in an implementation-defined manner, although more than two leading characters shall be treated as a single character." 07:40:57 But //C:\POSIX/bin\sh wouldn't really work. Hrm. 07:41:33 `` dirname //foo/bar 07:41:46 ​//foo 07:41:51 well that took a while 07:42:59 `` dirname //////////foo/bar 07:43:00 ​//////////foo 07:43:11 * izabera was expecting something else 07:43:36 But that's the exact algorithm specified in POSIX. 07:44:54 Since the meaning of the leading "//" is implementation-defined, dirname("//foo) may return either "//" or '/' (but nothing else). 07:45:05 Yep. 07:45:16 `` dirname //////////foo 07:45:17 ​/ 07:45:21 `` dirname //foo 07:45:22 ​/ 07:45:30 :( 07:45:39 Note that it's the meaning of *precisely two* slashes that's implementation-defined. 07:46:07 Three or more slashes is the same as / 07:46:09 did you know that head -c is not posix 07:46:12 Yes. 07:46:20 well it's dumb -_- 07:46:39 since the closest thing i can think of is a rather inefficient hack with dd 07:49:34 -!- zadock has joined. 07:57:50 "/dev/full"? 08:00:00 `` echo x > /dev/full 08:00:00 bash: line 0: echo: write error: No space left on device 08:00:05 it's a device that returns an error when you try to write to it 08:30:07 Hold on 08:30:16 I've just realised that enigmatic means like an enigma 08:30:21 How did I miss that 08:36:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:41:55 `? boily 08:41:56 boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. 08:43:28 `run sed -i 's/Lachine/Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing/' wisdom/boily 08:43:46 No output. 08:43:50 `? boily 08:43:51 boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. 08:45:01 * oerjan suddenly wonders what's really in those cookies 08:46:09 that i can buy maple leaf cookies at the corner store <-- whoops 08:46:21 another dealing empire crushed 08:46:25 i am in possession of some p. bad cookies 08:46:39 shachaf: did you get them from kmc 08:46:48 no 08:46:57 i would expect better quality cookies from kmc 08:47:05 ah. 08:47:22 (is that a drugz joke) 08:47:52 i've been making drugz jokes since i entered the channel, pay attention. 08:48:21 i noticed the others 08:48:28 good, good 08:48:51 `? oerjan 08:49:08 Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. 08:49:21 amortization is the process of becoming immortal, right? 08:50:03 or possibly the opposite. 08:50:16 to wiktionary! 08:50:57 ironically since i added that, whenever i've needed the word either HackEgo has been down or i actually managed to remember it. 08:51:07 i think. 08:51:28 honestly, i cannot entirely remember. except that i remembered it once. 08:52:04 "From (the stem of) Middle French amortir (“to bring to death”), probably from Late Latin *admortīre, from Latin ad + mortem." 08:59:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:03:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:07:49 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:10:54 What's actually the defintion of premature death? 09:11:36 You die sooner than you should've based on...? 09:11:59 Death before maturity 09:12:28 Or perhaps that's immature death 09:18:03 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:20:09 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:20:09 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 09:25:39 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:26:02 -!- ^v has joined. 09:32:59 Jafet: apparentely "sitting" is linked to 9% of premature death. 09:33:19 which suggests that if you didn't sit that long you wouldn't have died a premature death 09:33:29 which probably means you've lived another two years or something? 09:33:33 but anyway 09:33:54 by that definition every death is premature because I'm sure you could've always lived a little bit healthier than you did 09:34:20 death by accidents are probably premature anyway as well. 09:34:31 since you die before you should've died. 09:34:59 unless you believe in destiny and that it was always clear that you'll die that way then it's probably not premature but preprogrammed 09:36:17 "Years of potential life lost (YPLL) or potential years of life lost (PYLL), is an estimate of the average years a person would have lived if he or she had not died prematurely." 09:46:15 mroman, I think death from old age or treatable illness or injury is not counted as premature? 09:48:26 Yeah but "old age" 09:48:31 How do you die by "old age"? 09:48:49 Heart suddenly stops? Brain suddently stops? 09:48:53 Organs failing? 09:49:05 maybe you could've slown down the aging process somehow 09:49:08 by eating an apple a day 09:53:26 Taneb: did you mean "untreatable illnesses"? 09:53:35 dieing of an illness that can be treated could be seen as premature 09:53:36 ...yes 09:53:46 dying 10:23:09 -!- boily has joined. 10:26:15 g'doily 10:27:09 bøn matirjan! 10:30:21 `? thanks ants 10:30:27 thanks ants? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:31:13 `run echo "thants" > wisdom/thanks\ ants 10:31:27 No output. 10:31:27 `? thanks ants 10:31:29 thants 10:32:23 `thanks Taneb 10:32:34 Tanelle! (or is it Thanksanebelle?) 10:32:35 Thanks, Taneb. Thaneb. 10:33:04 boily: only when he's cosplaying 10:33:21 Taneb sprø som selleri 10:34:37 Over the weekend I got asked what I was cosplaying no less than 5 times 10:34:44 `` grep -FInr 'sprø' wisdom/* 10:34:47 I was, in fact, not cosplaing 10:35:05 Taneb: but now you are cosplaining 10:35:44 wisdom/shachaf:1:shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. 10:36:44 shachaf: shellochellof. you sly fiend! 10:36:56 Anyway I have been watching Look Around You again 10:37:20 -!- CADD has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:38:05 `addquote Over the weekend I got asked what I was cosplaying no less than 5 times I was, in fact, not cosplaing 10:38:15 1239) Over the weekend I got asked what I was cosplaying no less than 5 times I was, in fact, not cosplaing 10:38:28 oerjan, can we edit that so it looks like I didn't make that typo in the second line? 10:38:55 maybe if you say the corrected version literally. 10:39:21 I was, in fact, not cosplaying 10:39:32 `revert 10:39:35 now we gotta put an ellipsis in 10:39:47 `addquote Over the weekend I got asked what I was cosplaying no less than 5 times [...] I was, in fact, not cosplaying 10:39:53 shachaf: way ahead of you 10:40:11 oerjan: the timestamps indicate otherwise hth 10:40:17 Done. 10:40:18 1239) Over the weekend I got asked what I was cosplaying no less than 5 times [...] I was, in fact, not cosplaying 10:40:22 MY BRAIN WAS 10:41:00 "I'm a Taneb. That's what they look like. The movie's going to be released in Autumn." 10:41:20 Taneb: did you take a picture of your non-cosplayingness 10:41:35 so we can judge for ourselves 10:42:26 oerjan, not a very good one 10:42:32 Maybe someone else did 10:43:09 oerjan: is your good twin named o⃥rjan by any chance twh 10:43:23 `? ørjan 10:43:30 ​Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers. 10:43:32 i thought this had been made clear. 10:43:37 oh 10:43:48 `unidecode o⃥ 10:43:52 ​[U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+20E5 COMBINING REVERSE SOLIDUS OVERLAY] 10:44:20 o⃫ 10:46:20 oerjan, what sort of papers does your good twin publish? 10:46:58 apparently papers about LSD for alcoholism: http://jop.sagepub.com/content/26/7/994.short 10:47:22 Taneb: math papers 10:47:27 by your pal, oerjan johansen 10:47:48 oerjan, are they like maths papers? 10:47:57 Because maths papers are like my favourite kind of paper 10:48:01 ah pål-ørjan, my old nemesis 10:48:44 Taneb: my usage is that e.g. geometry and topology are maths, which is to say that e.g. topology is a math 10:49:13 shachaf, I agree emotionally but not pedantically with that usage 10:49:30 Taneb: he's been slacking off on the mathy papering for a decade, though 10:49:48 a decade ago was 2005 :'( 10:50:10 whoa, a paper by ørjan on ergodic theory 10:50:15 *+at least 10:51:20 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%C3%B8rjan+johansen 10:51:48 Over 30 million psychedelic users in the United States 10:53:05 Maybe one day I'll write a maths paper 10:53:07 Maybe tomorrow! 10:53:40 you should write a maths paper with your pål ørjan 10:54:03 i doubt he'd understand it 10:55:22 Unfortunately I am just a little undergraduate 10:55:33 -whois őrjan 10:56:18 Taneb: does that stop you from writing maths papers 10:56:27 shachaf, not in of itself 10:56:43 But I do not know as much maths as some people who used to be undergraduates but then graduated! 10:57:44 how many maths do you know 10:58:18 About 12 or so 10:59:04 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:59:08 that's more than i know 10:59:29 b_jonas: nem tudok 11:00:24 wait should it be tudom or not 11:03:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:04:52 What would I even write a paper about 11:11:20 a tanebvention of course 11:19:17 `? tanebventions 11:19:17 Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, and this sentence. 11:20:14 `? persistence 11:20:25 Taneb invented persistence long ago, and it's been around ever since. 11:20:40 `? stephen wolfram 11:20:42 Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 11:21:04 Taneb, you've invented a lot of things since last i checked 11:21:21 Phantom_Hoover, it's not something I can help 11:21:39 `? torus 11:21:40 Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented them. 11:21:48 when and how did you invent the torus 11:21:59 after persistence hth 11:22:05 Couple of years back 11:22:37 I was thinking about things that are topologically equivalent to a torus, and lo and behold I discovered the torus 11:24:04 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:24:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SOPRANO CHICKEN). 11:26:15 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:26:25 -!- shikhin has quit (Client Quit). 11:27:30 `? go 11:27:31 Go is a common verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in the strategic territories of East Asia. 11:27:52 `? chu space 11:27:53 A Chu space is just a matrix. Taneb invented them, then Chu stole his invention. 11:29:01 `? d-modules 11:29:02 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 11:29:52 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:33:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 11:39:53 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:45:07 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:46:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:29:28 -!- roasted42 has joined. 12:30:00 -!- roasted42 has quit (Changing host). 12:30:00 -!- roasted42 has joined. 12:30:00 -!- roasted42 has changed nick to TheM4ch1n3. 12:35:14 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:45:53 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:47:37 -!- heroux has joined. 12:50:59 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:22:10 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:32:45 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:33:14 -!- ^v has joined. 13:37:47 [wiki] [[Lazy K]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42241&oldid=20133 * 79.247.175.208 * (-8) Fixed specification link 13:38:29 -!- cpressey has joined. 13:41:33 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:51:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:02:18 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:17:40 " 14:17:47 "'Arrows' is a really stupid name because in saying what an arrow is I'm forced to use the word 'arrow' in two diferent senses, one for Hughes meaning and one for the usual meaning from category theory. It's like deciding that the prime numbers bigger than 20 are interesting for some reason and then choosing to give them a name, 'the primes'." 14:26:33 maybe i could have invented monads, with enough pressure to refactor some functional code that builds and extracts pairs everywhere, but i probably wouldn't have called them monads 14:27:08 ( http://blog.sigfpe.com/2006/08/you-could-have-invented-monads-and.html ) 14:27:08 (input):1:8: error: unexpected 14:27:08 Operator without known fixity: 14:27:08 ://, expected: space 14:27:08 http://blog.sigfpe.com/2006/08/you-could-have-invented-monads-and.html ) 14:27:08 ^ 14:27:12 thanks idris-bot 14:27:33 good to know you're paying attention 14:28:14 and always good to be reminded of the fact that you aren't ever safe starting a msg with a non-alphanumeric character when bots is around 14:33:53 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:43:08 hmm, that function bind is only necessary becuase you can't just use a global variable that f and g bpth modify 14:44:12 (like, for example, an output stream) 14:44:30 uhhh yes well, functional programming, you see, without side-effects, you see, referentially transparent and all that, you see 14:45:11 i know some people like the idea of putting monads in impure languages like Lisp and Python, but i personally do not see the point of that 14:46:35 I see. this bind thing is the way to sort of have the benefits of a global variable (a piece of data that follows "alongside" the processing) without the issue of statefulness 14:46:39 cpressey: Mind you that an arrow is also an everyday object in medival times. 14:46:57 *medieval 14:47:13 Ideally you math guys would have a structure called "Bow" as well 14:47:35 that would be the sine function 14:48:06 don't know if there's a bow, but there are definitely sheafs 14:48:48 err, no, the chord function*** comes from a function named after a bowstring 14:49:09 the sine function is half of it 14:50:36 It is really stupid that they have a picture of a surfer on my grade 11 math text, but didn't use these metaphors for trigonometry 14:51:21 a picture of a surfer belongs on Fluid Dynamics 101, not trigonometry 14:52:02 the surfer makes it cool 14:52:16 which makes students like trig more, because it is cool 14:52:32 (i assume this is the logic, anyway) 14:53:02 Yeah, I guess an Indian chariot-archer would be too violent or some crap 15:00:04 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:11:21 -!- bb010g has joined. 15:22:00 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:24:57 I would have called them BOBULANCES 15:25:02 (or maybe not) 15:25:35 `prefixes 15:25:35 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 15:25:53 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:26:18 i guess that leaves $ and % and # and + and = free 15:26:25 and a few others 15:27:00 although, dare I point out that EgoBot and blsqbot are up in each other's faces there 15:27:35 Way back when I started idris-bot it used ‣ I think, because that was highly unlikely to get in the way. 15:29:16 / would be another good prefix. 15:29:17 ( help 15:29:17 No such variable help 15:29:22 ( quit 15:29:22 No such variable quit 15:29:26 ok 15:30:00 ( idrisVersion 15:30:00 "0.9.17.1-git:9560761" : String 15:30:40 very tempting to try to discover what the idris language is like just by getting in an extended conversation with idris-bot 15:31:13 That could get very frustrating very fast. 15:32:53 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 15:33:51 Another way to learn it is to read the documentation and to look at other programs written using it. 15:36:29 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 15:37:29 Of the latter, there aren’t many yet, and a number of those that exist have probably bitrotted. 15:38:26 why is the bot in here? 15:38:43 do the authors of idris consider it to be an esolang? 15:39:09 is it so hard for me to /join #idris if i want to talk to a bot that talks idris? 15:39:14 sometimes i just don't understand IRC. 15:42:21 I believe Sgeo is the one who invited it, and by extension me, since I had to come keep an eye on the unreliable little thing. 15:43:41 And then I stayed because there are occasionally quite interesting things discussed here. ∑:3 15:48:11 I see 15:48:13 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:48:18 Anyone implemented deadfish in it yet? 15:48:59 No, but WhiteSpace IIRC, and IIRC the originator of Idris is the inventor of WhiteSpace. 15:53:52 We can see how many things Deadfish is implemented in so far 15:56:43 The shotest one seems to be the one in AWK 15:56:57 I don't know, if you can implement one for Atari VCS? 16:02:21 ( the Bits32 (-1) 16:02:22 Can't resolve type class Neg Bits32 16:02:34 ( prim__complB32 0 16:02:34 4294967295 : Bits32 16:03:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:03:50 ( :t the 16:03:50 Prelude.Basics.the : (a : Type) -> a -> a 16:07:00 oh dear. can you write Agda-style proofputations in this one, too? 16:07:43 It has full dependent types, yes. 16:08:11 It emphatically does not have Agda’s any-unicode mixfix syntax. 16:09:48 dare i ask what a proof that + is associative might look like 16:10:28 i guess probably not too different from how it looks in agda 16:10:37 > :printdef plusAssociative 16:10:39 :1:1: parse error on input ‘:’ 16:10:43 ( :printdef plusAssociative 16:10:43 plusAssociative : (left : Nat) -> (centre : Nat) -> (right : Nat) -> left + (centre + right) = left + centre + right 16:10:43 plusAssociative 0 centre right = Refl 16:10:43 plusAssociative (S left) centre right = let inductiveHypothesis = plusAssociative left centre right in plusAssociativeStepCase left 16:10:43 centre 16:10:43 right↵… 16:10:53 Not enough lines. 16:11:18 yeah, more or less how i've seen it look in agda 16:11:40 well, maybe a little nicer 16:11:53 if only because inductiveHypothesis and plusAssociativeStepCase are spelled out 16:15:22 https://github.com/idris-lang/Idris-dev/blob/master/libs/prelude/Prelude/Nat.idr#L382-L387 That stuff should probably get cleaned up, since we don’t need to use proof mode for intelligent rewriting anymore. 16:15:35 ( :printdef plusAssociativeStepCase 16:15:35 plusAssociativeStepCase : (left : Nat) -> 16:15:35 (centre : Nat) -> (right : Nat) -> (left + (centre + right) = left + centre + right) -> S (plus left (plus centre right)) = S (plus (plus left centre) right) 16:15:35 plusAssociativeStepCase = \left => \centre => \right => \inductiveHypothesis => let {rewrite_rule109} = inductiveHypothesis in replace rewrite_rule Refl 16:16:06 "{rewrite_rule109}", eh? 16:16:11 i know, i know 16:16:15 it's working backwards from smth 16:16:16 cpressey: That’s vaguely inaccurate since it’s generated from a short tactic script. 16:16:57 The {rewrite_rule109} is how gensyms come out. 16:17:03 me, whenever i write a program, i make sure to name all my functions "function_001", "function_002", etc 16:17:55 so, previously, i lied. i wouldn't have called monads bobulances. i would've called them abstraction_0764's. 16:17:58 > :t MN 16:18:01 :1:1: parse error on input ‘:’ 16:18:03 ( :t MN 16:18:03 Language.Reflection.MN : Int -> String -> TTName 16:18:21 ( MN 109 "rewrite_rule" 16:18:21 MN 109 "rewrite_rule" : TTName 16:18:41 That’s probably the representation of that variable. 16:18:49 cpressey: I was reading "A Rainy Sunday Afternoon", I thought the concept was very amusing, but was also disappointed that it wasn't written by hand 16:19:14 ais523: I'm glad you found it amusing. 16:19:26 Asking for something like that to be hand-written is maybe asking a little much 16:19:44 -!- vodkode has joined. 16:19:59 indeed 16:20:03 Oh wait, that's the... card game one. OK, yeah. I can see your disappointment more clearly 16:20:07 and yet, people genuinely do play such games 16:20:11 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:20:48 (Originally I thought you meant "Hope and Remembrance". When you get to be my age, you can't keep your own generated novels straight) 16:20:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:21:15 I don't think I've ever generated a novel 16:21:48 -!- gde33 has joined. 16:21:49 ais523: you are very welcome to spend November trying. it's fun. https://github.com/dariusk/NaNoGenMo-2014/ 16:22:25 but November is the /dev/null/nethack tournament 16:23:06 November is rather overloaded with activities, I agree 16:23:49 you are of course welcome to try, any time of year 16:24:07 as with writing one by hand etc 16:25:28 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:26:29 ais523: "A Rainy Sunday Afternoon" was inspired by a mention of Arnold Rimmer's _Risk_ Logbook, which was mentioned in response to a novel about the Towers of Hanoi 16:41:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:41:09 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 16:41:34 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 16:41:36 i should probably curate those a bit better, actually put them on my site instead of gist, and link to the nanogeno issues that they came from 16:41:42 ( the (() -> ()) $ %runTactics (do { intro (Just (MN 109 "rewrite_rule")); fill (Var (MN 109 "rewrite_rule")); solve}) 16:41:42 When elaborating argument x to function Prelude.Basics.the: 16:41:42 No such variable Language.Reflection.Tactical.Tactical 16:41:46 Oh right. 16:42:13 ais523: i'm also nominally working on a "real" story generator, but it's going very slowly 16:42:23 partly an excuse to read tvtropes a lot :) 16:42:29 haha 16:42:41 is the idea that you feed the whole of tvtropes to a computer 16:42:50 and end up with a coherent, if very clichéd, story? 16:46:15 sort of 16:46:17 I prefer All The Tropes rather than TV Tropes, but, you can try to see what it is will be 16:47:13 I hadn't heard of that one before. I'll look at it. 16:47:32 Well, I have a account on All The Tropes; I don't have any on TV Tropes 16:47:53 "feed" isn't quite the right word because they need a lot of "premasticating" before you can get them into an algorithm, but, yes, that's where they eventually end up (and I might have object classes with the same names as TVTropes pages) 16:48:57 -!- zadock has joined. 16:50:02 -!- Shikhin has joined. 16:50:02 -!- Shikhin has quit (Excess Flood). 16:50:04 My FOAF includes a link to my All The Tropes user page 16:50:46 ais523, cpressey: where do I find "a rainy sunday afternoon"? Google isn't helpful in this case 16:51:05 https://gist.github.com/cpressey/1b9f6d8c66cc1f736aba 16:51:32 anyway, here's a problem I'm currently having in Real Life: my bank won't let me move money around between my accounts because I don't have ID 16:51:33 FireFly: what ais523 said. also, http://catseye.tc/node/Text 16:52:04 all they accept is a passport (which I don't have), driving license (which I don't have), or one very specific tax form (which I think is the PAYE Coding Notice) 16:52:39 but the government's taxation department say that normally they'll just send you a P60 form instead, and the bank doesn't accept P60s 16:52:41 even though you are unquestionably the holder of both accounts 16:52:45 cpressey: yes! 16:53:08 the bank seems to be under the assumption that the coding notice gets sent to everone 16:53:10 *everyone 16:53:11 yeah that sounds about right 16:53:22 Intriguing story 16:53:30 Although I have to admit I skipped over parts of it 16:53:59 FireFly: a not uncommon occurrence with computer-generated 50k-word novels 16:54:08 (that said, I seem to be missing last year's P60 too, possibly because it's only sent if you happen to be employed on 5 April specifically; you get a P45 instead otherwise) 16:54:57 -!- Shikhin has joined. 16:54:59 ais523: are you able to write yourself a cheque from one account, and deposit it (no wait, what do they say here... pay it in?) into the other account? 16:55:14 no, this is the UK 16:55:21 cheques exist here, but they aren't widely used 16:55:47 in particular, I haven't used them often enough to be given a chequebook, meaning that if I needed to give someone a cheque, I'd need to go to the bank and ask them to write it for me 16:55:52 which runs into the same problem as before 16:56:31 bah. actually, i'm slightly amazed that you've managed to obtain employment without a passport 16:56:38 (also, the tax year ends in 9 days, meaning any solution to this problem would need to be by then or it'll count towards the wrong year's tax allowance) 16:56:46 they said an expired passport was sufficient to prove I was British 16:57:00 and I did have one of those 16:57:13 (haven't any more, I decided to exchange it for a new passport to avoid such problems in the future, but that takes over 3 weeks) 16:57:46 -!- Shikhin has quit (Excess Flood). 16:58:15 Hm, you don't have any kind of identity card over there? 16:58:38 not mandatory 16:58:44 Something the size of a driver's license without granting a driver's license 16:58:50 opt-in identity cards exist, but most aren't considered sufficiently official 16:58:58 In my area there is "BCID", which is like a driving license, except that it isn't a driving license. 16:59:00 I see 16:59:10 a common workaround is to apply for a "I'm planning to learn to drive" provisional license, and then not learn to drive 16:59:26 We have national identity cards, and the driving license works as a substitute for it 16:59:55 works the same here 17:00:11 anyway, the advice is to carry ID if you're not a citizen of the country you're in (Brit abroad, or foreigner in Britain), but for a Brit in Britain, you don't need ID most of the time 17:00:11 except the driving license isn't official enough for everything 17:00:20 you can vote with a driving license, but you can't withdraw money 17:00:23 I've lived in far too many places 17:00:47 I've had a BC driver's license, an Illinois driver's license, but not a UK driver's license. 17:01:18 And now that information is permanently on the public Internet, but I don't suppose it matters. 17:01:32 ah right, you're in the UK right now 17:01:36 according to CTCP TIME 17:01:40 or somewhere else in UTC+0 17:01:50 You can see my FOAF file on http://zzo38computer.org/my_foaf.ttl 17:02:00 I think the UK allows foreign driver's licenses under some circumstances 17:02:08 I might add more later on 17:02:09 sadly, yes, right now I am barely a stone's throw from Trafalgar Square 17:02:25 I've decided that there's not much point in trying to hide what country or even city you're in 17:02:31 your IP is shown too many places 17:02:37 * Koen_ 's crappy client doesn't do ctcps 17:03:31 Koen_: It can respond to VERSION and TIME requests from me though 17:03:36 Koen_: I received one from you 17:03:39 maybe it just didn't show the response? 17:03:46 oh, probably 17:04:05 I didn't receive the notification from zzo38 either 17:04:06 If you can enter control characters then you should be able to use it. 17:04:30 zzo38: hardly anyone sends ctcps by manually typing the control-A 17:04:42 I've done it in the past, but it's much more common to use a specific CTCP feature of a client 17:04:50 ais523: Well, I do, because that's the only way my client has to send. 17:04:58 For replying it can do it automatically though. 17:05:41 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:05:50 PHP? Interesting choice of language for implementing an IRC client 17:06:04 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest67562. 17:06:40 FireFly: Yes, but I couldn't figure out how to do internet connection properly with C 17:07:08 I see 17:08:11 -!- Guest67562 has changed nick to shikhout. 17:08:13 sockets? 17:08:19 I also haven't implemented split-screen or anything like that so far 17:08:21 -!- shikhout has quit (Changing host). 17:08:21 -!- shikhout has joined. 17:08:59 last year I was asked to do an instant messaging service in C using signals 17:09:27 < ais523> zzo38: hardly anyone sends ctcps by manually typing the control-A 17:09:44 -!- shikhout has quit (Client Quit). 17:09:44 yes but if there's a channel where you're going to find people wanting to... you could do worse than #esoteric 17:09:57 cpressey: right, and I know from the past that zzo38 /does/ send the control-As manually 17:10:00 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:10:06 I just thought I'd clarify how most clients work 17:10:12 depending on the OS, the signals lost ranged from 1% to 90% so everything had to be very redundant but also stutter-proof 17:10:24 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest91957. 17:10:55 I have seen other IRC clients but I don't like it much therefore I implemented my own one. 17:11:25 -!- Guest91957 has quit (Client Quit). 17:11:41 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 17:11:54 With syntax highlighting and other stuff 17:12:00 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Changing host). 17:12:00 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 17:12:04 And macros indicated by function keys 17:12:10 And password masking 17:12:11 And so on. 17:12:45 syntax highlighting? __english__ syntax? 17:12:50 No, IRC syntax 17:13:23 If your input starts with "PASS " then everything typed after that on the same line will display as asterisks, and furthermore it won't save that line into the history of inputs. 17:13:53 Why would it highlight English syntax? 17:14:35 zzo38: what language did you write it in? 17:14:48 i have a guess 17:14:52 but it's probably wrong 17:14:54 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Client Quit). 17:15:10 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:15:10 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 17:15:10 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:15:37 cpressey: What language did I write what in? 17:15:53 zzo38: what language did you write your IRC client in? 17:16:09 I wrote it in PHP, because I could not figure out how to do it with C. 17:16:31 that was my 3rd guess (after FORTH and C) 17:17:05 Sadly, if I were to write one, I would probably do it in Python 17:17:07 which is boring 17:17:10 and i hate myself for it 17:17:13 but it's what i write now 17:17:18 so terrible 17:17:55 ...maybe Javascript except I know I wouldn't be able to bring myself to use node.js for something that signficant 17:18:30 I've been meaning to write a somewhat-serious client for myself 17:18:53 hmmm 17:19:11 -!- shikhin has quit (Client Quit). 17:19:18 Do you also not like the other IRC clients too? 17:19:26 the awful bit about an IRC client would be the async terminal (or GUI) I/O versus the network I/O, wouldn't it 17:19:34 maybe node.js wouldn't be *that* bad actually 17:19:45 I think node.js wouldn't be too bad 17:19:52 zzo38: yeah 17:20:23 I don't mind weechat, I don't mind irssi, but I hate their build systems 17:20:24 cpressey: It is what I thought too, but I was able to figure out how to do that in PHP 17:20:32 ok, "hate" is too strong a work 17:20:34 *word 17:20:40 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:21:10 weechat works decently, but I don't like how the plugin system seems to be very fragile (at least the little I've looked at it) 17:21:14 cpressey: Do you know I am working on a Z-machine implementation for Famicom? 17:21:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Client Quit). 17:21:43 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:22:18 zzo38: No, I didn't know that. Cool. 17:22:41 I think I had a 2nd-hand Famicom once... without a proper power supply... I don't remember if I ever got it working. 17:23:10 I already wrote ZORKMID in C, which is a Z-machine debugger, therefore I can see what instructions Zork I executes before the first READ, as well as seeing various other things 17:23:42 In case you are interested, here is that list of instructions: http://sprunge.us/KMhj 17:23:59 The * is the debugger prompt and P displays this list; also O will clear the list 17:24:20 And then there are other commands too, such as u for unassemble, d for dump, q for quit, r for restart, etc 17:25:37 I am working on a compiler to target Z-machine too actually, which is actually mainly an assembler but with extensions and macros and more optimizations. 17:26:00 Actually, oerjan helped me to optimize the text packing. 17:26:59 i could never wrap my head around the Z-machine. i mean, i'm sure it's possible, but all those clever little packed things. brrrr 17:27:38 I fixed a who-knows-how-old-it-was bug in Zplet, though 17:28:05 What bug is that? 17:28:29 it had to do with font size versus size of the applet 17:28:57 https://github.com/XelaRellum/ZPlet/pull/3 if you *really* care 17:29:49 Ah, OK 17:30:02 huh, the tax office's phone lines are still open 17:30:13 I'm going home to get some documents, then phone them 17:30:15 bye for now everyone 17:30:17 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:30:56 Have you seen my All The Tropes user page? 17:31:19 You can also look at my FOAF which can be downloaded from: http://zzo38computer.org/my_foaf.ttl 17:31:53 first FOAF I've ever seen with gopher:// in it 17:32:42 It has telnet:// in it too; have you seen other FOAFs with telnet:// in it? Probably for ones that mention MUDs it might be in there I suppose 17:32:55 to be fair i have not seen many FOAFs at all 17:33:04 First time I see a FOAF 17:34:07 i should be going 17:34:08 I also wrote a SQLite extension that can parse this and other RDF Turtle files. It turns out to be smaller than Serd, and as far as I know the only one that has a API that is accessed from SQL. 17:34:16 later, all 17:34:21 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:34:23 FireFly: Well, now you know! 17:35:46 Although some people write FOAFs in XML instead 17:35:57 I used Turtle to write mine though. 17:36:53 foaf... 17:37:36 hmm 17:37:43 apparently wordpress supports foaf 17:37:48 i wonder how that works 17:38:16 I don't know, but I think I have read that too 17:39:04 i'm asking #wordpress 17:48:14 useless 17:55:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:56:04 so the tax department's phone line says the same thing as their website 17:56:18 which is that there's no need to worry or do anything if they've sent you a tax code change 17:56:42 the problem is, my tax code /hasn't/ changed and I need a tax code change form anyway because my bank are making silly requests 17:56:46 I guess I just complain to the bank 18:02:26 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:08:11 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 18:11:12 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 18:12:35 -!- clrg has joined. 18:15:22 -!- zadock has joined. 18:17:32 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 18:29:18 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 18:30:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:30:44 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 18:30:58 yes, complaining to the bank always work *ahem* 18:31:38 plus, they always call back when you reach their answering machine even though you called during their office hours 18:41:04 -!- clrg has left ("Saliendo"). 18:46:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:47:02 I read about aspect-oriented programming, now I think perhaps RULECARD should be designed with something similar to aspect-oriented programming as one of its features. 18:48:33 -!- heroux has joined. 18:51:54 `unidecode 🀆 🀅 🀄 18:51:57 ​[U+1F006 MAHJONG TILE WHITE DRAGON] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+1F005 MAHJONG TILE GREEN DRAGON] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+1F004 MAHJONG TILE RED DRAGON] 18:53:59 -!- Judas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:56:10 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 19:00:04 But in Magic: the Gathering, there is triggers on stack, "instead of" abilities, effects that temporarily or permanently change other effects and objects, etc 19:00:23 the white dragon tile is hilarious 19:00:30 because the tiles themselves are also white 19:00:40 so the joke is, they leave the tile blank because it's a white dragon on a white background 19:01:11 Also called "haku", yes it is a blank tile, although some sets have a border 19:01:48 The glass haku tiles in a Washizu set will be the same on both sides even. 19:03:42 ais523: In Chinese sets, usually there's a frame to represent the dragon 19:03:58 in Japenese sets, though, they actually leave them blank 19:04:05 Yes, I am aware 19:04:10 right, I know it's not always blank 19:04:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:04:49 there are sets of black tiles as well, but these pose a problem as they are often not two-toned, so if they don't put some sort of marker (usually a dot in Japanese sets) to indicate the white dragon, it is indistinguishable face up and face down 19:05:17 which means you sometimes have to stand it on its end to distinguish it, and on top of that, in a heavily played set, it will be worn differently since it sees equal wear on both sides 19:07:22 Yes, but a proper set should have the back a different color than the front (the back can be brown or green for non-magnetic tiles, or it is blue or pink for magnetic tiles, I think) 19:08:33 does anyone have terminal emulator suggestions? 19:08:37 configuring urxvt is shit 19:08:42 konsole doesn't handle astral characters correctly 19:08:47 Still the glass haku tiles in Washizu sets are going to be the same on both sides, but in that case it doesn't matter because you are supposed to be allowed to look at opponent's glass tiles. 19:09:52 coppro: Can't you use xterm? 19:11:06 zzo38: perhaps? does it support full unicode correctly and is it a pain in the ass to configure? 19:14:07 I don't know 19:14:30 When working on Linux I generally use Linux VC with Unicode turned off 19:17:02 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 19:17:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:17:09 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 19:19:35 -!- MDude has joined. 19:20:11 now with the seeping bass again :( 19:22:49 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 19:22:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:22:52 Not a very treble experience. 19:23:43 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 19:24:28 i think a pun needs the other word to exist, int-e 19:24:47 t'reble? 19:25:10 * oerjan swats int-e -----## 19:25:13 I guess the editing distance is a bit too big. 19:25:20 wat 19:25:23 *+# 19:26:01 the web irc font confuses my swatting 19:27:31 oerjan: when you're serious you should try a sharper swatter like "-----♯♯♯" hth 19:27:58 there is only One True Swatter 19:28:21 ----%%% 19:33:57 < coppro> konsole doesn't handle astral characters correctly – Really? What does it do with them? 19:35:27 coppro: I use gnome-terminal as my terminal but I wouldn't really recommend it 19:38:08 girl genius is back to its usual unschedule 19:39:10 DST trouble. 19:39:40 int-e: i think it's a bit more than 1 hour off 19:39:48 You think? 19:41:08 i distinctly recall being able to mostly expect an update to be ready around 6-7 AM my time in previous years 19:41:21 and this occasionally still happens. 19:44:13 sounds like lewie has found a life philosophy, i wonder if that's what he's been doing since he came back to black mountain 19:51:03 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 19:51:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:51:16 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 19:53:03 it seems that breaking out a tab into its own window gets IE confused about the rest of them... 19:53:21 Firefox seems to have a bug where the tabs are in the wrong order 19:53:34 as in, the order they're arranged at the top of the screen is different from the order ctrl-pgdn cycles through htem 19:53:40 and trying to rearrange them causes some of them to overlap 19:53:54 gah 19:56:41 -!- nycs has joined. 19:58:32 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:59:41 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:00:31 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 20:03:37 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:23:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:28:33 -!- adu has joined. 20:56:16 ugh 20:56:22 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 20:56:47 [wiki] [[Yoob]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42242&oldid=31859 * 5.29.33.254 * (+38) 21:00:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:01:32 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:01:33 Would it be ethical for me to use Mechanical Turk for something? 21:02:11 depends on what that thing is, surely 21:02:27 unless you think all uses of mechanical turk are unethical due to not paying the users enough 21:02:38 one problem is, that the unethical uses are likely to be willing to pay more per person than the ethical ones 21:02:40 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:02:42 so they may price the ethical ones out of the market 21:03:35 incidentally, it turns out that one of the main reasons that Google and Yahoo! and friends are trying push people to use two-factor auth for their accounts (tying them to cellphones) is to prevent spam automated signups, because most spambots don't have cellphones 21:03:57 (and allegedly, the price of a Google account on the black market is approximately the same as that of the cheapest available SIM cards) 21:04:02 Thing I had in mind is just a thing for personal use (finding YouTube videos to match with my collection of MIDIs), but I'm looking at MTurk and it seems to pay out pennies, which seems a bit cheap 21:05:13 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:07:04 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:08:33 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 21:10:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:10:17 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 21:14:19 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:24:35 -!- Tritonio has joined. 21:27:23 -!- g2watson has joined. 21:27:47 What if someone doesn't find one of the songs, not paying is probably unethical 21:33:55 how much is mechanical turk per hour anyway 21:39:09 MTurk pays people based on how much you offer. 21:39:18 With some service transaction, I imagine. 21:39:55 MTurk isn't per-hour, it's piecerate. 21:40:21 Unless you somehow set a task to require spending a set amount of time doing something. 21:40:27 Rather than for the result. 21:40:58 Forget why I decided against working for it. 21:44:04 -!- g2watson has changed nick to orin. 21:44:47 ah. if the price is per task, then it is similar to working on commission 21:46:55 Is there a way to safely/ethically set up tasks that may fail? 21:47:19 If I don't pay for failure, that's possibly unethical, if I do pay for failure, someone could lie and say they failed 21:47:41 Sgeo_: the amount of worry setting this up will cause you 21:47:46 is larger than the benefit you'd get if it worked 21:47:57 You examine their work and determine yourself if it's a failure. 21:47:58 I think if they failed you shouldn't have to pay if you do not want to 21:48:17 Depending on the task it might be possible to determine if they tried. 21:48:43 Apparently the common practice is to set the price super low and to generally accept anything. 21:48:47 Since here the work is 'finding the name of a song', I don't really have a way to check honestly (except seaching myself) if it's true that they tried and couldn't ind it 21:48:48 find it 21:48:59 From what I heard soon after it came out, anyway. 21:49:20 If they get you the name, you could easily just put that in a search engine. 21:49:30 If you have enough money maybe you can try by making up fake tasks that you do not need in order to see who is more honestly and so on 21:49:33 Sgeo_: I believe there are cellphone "apps" that claim to be able to determine the name of a song from listening to it 21:49:35 MDude: which would be a success 21:49:45 that might work better 21:49:50 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:50:00 ais523: including MIDIs? I guess I should try it 21:50:09 not sure about MIDIs 21:50:17 but that might be the best route for you to go down 21:50:23 Extra checking like that ought to cost more of course 21:51:25 About MIDIs, I can tell you something I read once (I think it was in Reader's Digest). To index the music, they mark each note as up, down, or same, and use the string of the first few notes represented in this way, in order to find it. Something similar could be done with MIDI, I suppose. 21:52:13 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 21:52:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:53:04 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 22:01:20 A version of the Magic: the Gathering card "Fruit of the First Tree" with exploit (and possibly also cycling) would be called what? 22:05:51 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 22:12:48 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:14:43 -!- zadock has joined. 22:15:28 -!- boily has joined. 22:17:02 zzo38: you can't figure out a card name by which mechanics it uses 22:17:12 I know, so I just made one up 22:17:17 especially because exploit and cycling haven't been in the same set yet, so we don't know what setting it would be in 22:17:49 I just called it "Fruit of the Third Tree" for now; its mana cost is {1} more and it has exploit and cycling {2} 22:19:34 I don't know the setting either of course 22:20:11 I also made up another card that has a trigger "when any creature is exploited", without caring who or what exploits it. 22:20:19 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:20:29 -!- Lymia has joined. 22:27:15 What setting do you think that would be in? 22:28:34 What do exploit and cycling do+ 22:30:20 FireFly: exploit is "when CARDNAME enters the battlefield, you may sacrifice a creature", the cards with that ability normally give you some reason why you'd /want/ to 22:30:21 Exploit means when this comes into play, you may sacrifice a creature (the permanent with that ability is then considered to have exploited the sacrificed creature). Cycling means you can pay the cost and then discard it from your hand in order to draw a card. 22:30:48 and cycling is "pay «cost», discard CARDNAME from your hand: draw a card" («cost» is traditionally {2} but weirder costs have been seen more recently) 22:33:29 Okay 22:33:57 Cycling seems like an interesting mechanic 22:34:07 The newest set invented exploit and megamorph keywords. 22:34:16 it's one of the ones they bring out every now and then because they need a card flow mechanic 22:34:27 Both only on creatures, though. 22:34:54 right, both mechanics could go on other things 22:35:15 although the design intent behind exploit is that you can sacrifice the creature it's on 22:35:18 `? bird 22:35:18 bird bird bird bird 22:35:19 so it's unlikely to go on a noncreature 22:35:58 ais523: Yes, if it is a creature you can do that, but that doesn't mean it has to be a creature; it just means that if it isn't, then you can't do that unless something else makes it to be a creature. 22:36:03 zzo38: yes 22:36:16 my point is that if they design a mechanic for a specific purpose 22:36:23 it's not normally used in contexts where that purpose doesn't work 22:36:46 But my point is that if they design a mechanic for a specific purpose, then you can try to use it for other purposes too. 22:39:23 I also made up card having ninjutsu even though it is not a creature, as well as creature that has both ninjutsu and defender. In the former case, it can come into play tapped but can't attack (unless it is an instant or sorcery in which case it remains in your hand); in the latter case it only attacks once. 22:43:11 Yes, you can also create a table of contents window in PDF. Still I think PDF isn't very good 22:49:54 there's a card with defender and haste in future sight 22:50:22 Yes, I know, I have seen that 22:53:58 `? cat canary 22:53:59 cat canary? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:54:03 `` cat canary 22:54:06 chirp 22:54:40 Add another command that executes shell command like that but sets the locale to C before executing your command. 22:55:02 `` ln -s canary wisdom/canary; ls -l wisdom/canary 22:55:06 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Mar 30 22:56 wisdom/canary -> canary 22:55:22 `` rm wisdom/canary; ln -s ../canary wisdom/canary; ls -l wisdom/canary 22:55:27 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Mar 30 22:57 wisdom/canary -> ../canary 22:55:32 `? canary 22:55:32 chirp 22:55:37 that'll do 22:56:58 canary is in wisdom? 22:57:02 why? 22:57:13 why not? 22:57:33 it isn't particularly informative or entertaining 22:57:36 just noise 22:57:41 fair 22:57:47 i've been guilty of introducing noise into wisdom/ too, of course 22:58:11 I though actually making use of the canary file was a bit amusing, but alas 22:58:24 maybe i'm wrong, then 22:58:36 I could well be the one being wrong 23:00:52 -!- scott has left. 23:01:03 OK I fixed HackEgo now it can use C locale instead of the stupid one 23:01:19 If you put ``` at the front of the command rather than `` 23:02:02 `` echo $LANG 23:02:03 en_NZ.UTF-8 23:02:11 ``` echo $LANG 23:02:12 C 23:02:40 english New Zealand? 23:03:58 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 23:04:03 New Zealand English indeed. 23:04:11 (en_CA's the best, tho :D) 23:04:39 I am also Canadian, but I think the best setting should be LANG=C 23:05:32 I'm not Canadian. 23:05:40 How about en_US.utf-8? 23:05:43 `? canada 23:05:44 Canada is Big Scotland. Like, you know, very big. 23:06:56 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:07:18 No I want LANG=C any other setting is no good. It can also be useful to set different settings for telephone, money, etc but even then it should be part of the database probably, rather than using the wrong setting for the database and cause a mess. 23:08:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ELONGATED CHICKEN). 23:08:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: STAPLED CHICKEN). 23:08:50 My opinion is also to make CLI message always print in English (or in an abbreviated form), but GUI and documentation can use any languages, possibly multiple in case people of different language want to read this documentation too. 23:09:22 (Not only always in English, but also they should always be in ASCII too, as much as possible.) 23:09:36 What if I don't like English? 23:10:04 `locale -a 23:10:05 aa_DJ \ aa_DJ.utf8 \ aa_ER \ aa_ER@saaho \ aa_ET \ af_ZA \ af_ZA.utf8 \ am_ET \ an_ES \ an_ES.utf8 \ ar_AE \ ar_AE.utf8 \ ar_BH \ ar_BH.utf8 \ ar_DZ \ ar_DZ.utf8 \ ar_EG \ ar_EG.utf8 \ ar_IN \ ar_IQ \ ar_IQ.utf8 \ ar_JO \ ar_JO.utf8 \ ar_KW \ ar_KW.utf8 \ ar_LB \ ar_LB.utf8 \ ar_LY \ ar_LY.utf8 \ ar_MA \ ar_MA.utf8 \ ar_OM \ ar_OM.utf8 \ ar_QA \ ar 23:10:42 shachaf: Then you can access the documentation in the language that you do like instead. 23:11:11 `` LC_ALL=ar_LB.utf8 echo > /dev/full 23:11:12 bash: line 0: echo: write error: No space left on device 23:12:33 `` LC_ALL=ru_RU.utf8 /bin/echo > /dev/full # ok, it works in principle... 23:12:34 ​/bin/echo: ошибка записи: На устройстве кончилось место 23:38:31 What is ar_LB? 23:38:46 Arabic (Lebanon) 23:38:49 Ah 23:39:31 `` LC_ALL=ja_JP.utf8 echo >/dev/full 23:39:46 bash: 0 行: echo: 書き込みエラー: デバイスに空き領域がありません 23:40:08 `` LC_ALL=he_IL.utf8 echo > /dev/full 23:40:09 bash: line 0: echo: write error: No space left on device 23:40:16 scow 23:51:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:53:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:55:48 -!- variable has joined. 2015-03-31: 00:11:55 Probably, although RDF files are often plain text so you can read them anyways 00:18:42 -!- bb010g has joined. 00:23:31 I learned that relatively recently. It seems suspiciously TeX-like--do you know if there is any relation between the two? 00:23:45 Wait, sorry, was thinking of RTF 00:33:50 iirc RDF is suspiciously HTML-like 00:34:35 e.g. XML but with bendy rules 00:34:43 hellolsner 00:38:03 .quit 00:38:06 -!- orin has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:07:54 Melvar: Konsole, like all of KDE, uses UCS2 01:08:29 an astral character may display correctly, but it counts as two for various things 01:16:23 coppro: Ugh. 01:16:34 UCS2 of all things... 01:27:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:28:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:35:26 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 01:38:35 :/ 01:44:10 -!- TodPunk has joined. 01:56:07 I found that out when I wanted to try to fix KCharSelect not supporting codepoints outside the BMP 01:56:40 http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qchar.html I don't think it'll change anytime soon :\ 02:01:20 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:06:04 -!- Lymee has joined. 02:09:00 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:34:47 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 02:43:04 -!- vodkode has joined. 02:45:17 olsner: No, RDF isn't specifically XML; XML is one format to store RDF data, but another is Turtle. 02:45:36 My own FOAF file also stores RDF data, but it is Turtle rather than XML. 02:45:37 See? 02:46:32 -!- Judas has joined. 02:47:23 -!- variable has joined. 02:51:54 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:55:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:56:45 -!- variable has joined. 02:57:28 which is better? 03:00:14 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:06:09 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:17:44 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:32:45 -!- vodkode has joined. 03:36:11 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 04:10:03 quintopia: Well, I prefer to use Turtle, but some prefer XML. For a simple (but not very good for writing by hand and reading manually either) format, there is N-Triples. Any N-Triples document is a valid Turtle document though; N-Triples is a subset of Turtle. 04:11:16 (Therefore any Turtle parser also parses N-Triples. The SQLite extension I wrote can convert Turtle into N-Triples.) 04:18:06 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:38:02 -!- gde33 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:02:31 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:11:49 -!- variable has joined. 05:16:25 -!- Judas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:01:48 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:02:12 -!- ^v has joined. 06:19:21 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:20:56 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:34:38 -!- vodkode has joined. 06:52:45 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:53:24 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:56:00 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:56:25 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:59:23 -!- zadock has joined. 07:21:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:21:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:39:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:44:22 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:48:51 Hm. 07:49:00 so... 07:49:08 I'll invent a religion that is offended by taxes 07:49:16 then I move to indiana, stop paying my taxes 07:49:36 I don't think that law is enforced if your religion is not christianity 07:49:41 :( 07:49:44 darn. 07:49:51 You may need to pay the politicians instead. 07:50:26 Apparently \sum_{k=0}^n k \binom{n}{k} = n 2^{n-1}. 07:50:42 but I could sell my religion as a sub-group of christianity 07:50:52 there are lots of christian churches with slightly different beleives out there. 07:51:03 possibly believes. 07:51:09 Or you could just join that religion 07:51:23 No way! 07:51:33 I wana be a pope. 07:51:37 Of my own christian church. 07:51:41 The word you want is beliefs 07:51:44 Believes is a verb 07:51:50 I like the fancy dresses I could wear then. 07:52:35 although not all christian churches have popes. 07:52:39 I guess it's just the catholics? 07:53:15 Oh, the proof of that identity is obvious 07:53:17 It's funny that protestants and catholics more or less have the same beliefs but protestants kinda see the pope as a phony. 07:54:04 fungot: What are your beliefs? 07:54:04 mroman: who is yome? arcus? gnomon? are you using ubuntu 5.10?) 07:54:10 fungot: Debian. 07:54:11 mroman: there's two of them touch when using framebuffer 07:54:19 fungot: What? 07:54:20 mroman: i used the c subset for the most part, its going to be 07:55:31 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/parents-could-be-reported-to-police-if-children-play-violent-video-games-like-call-of-duty-and-grand-theft-auto-10141697.html 07:55:34 What a shame. 07:55:48 Everybody knows that you have to start playing these games at 14 years old to become a pro by 18 07:56:04 then slowly decay until you completely suck at age 24 because you're eyes aren't fast enough anymore. 07:56:10 *your 07:56:13 fungot: A C subset? Sounds pretty limited 07:56:13 FireFly: i would simply use midi 07:56:27 fungot: so you're into music-based esolangs 07:56:27 FireFly: what is /dev/ random, but there's no message, window creation just silently errors out :) 07:56:37 Is C without pointers still turing complete? 07:59:10 yes 07:59:16 well, uh 07:59:20 can you still use arrays? 07:59:22 if so, yes. 07:59:39 if not... yeah, you have recursion 07:59:44 Since C isn't turing complete to begin with... 07:59:57 coppro: recursion isn't enough 08:00:07 Jafet: True. 08:00:10 b_jonas: you have recursion and branching 08:00:11 but in any case, you can use files and seeks 08:00:23 coppro: even still, that just makes a stack automaton 08:01:09 coppro: aren't arrays just pointers? 08:01:25 a[b] is defined as *(a+b) or something 08:01:34 also a[b] == b[a] 08:02:04 no wait, without pointers you can't open a file 08:02:07 damn 08:02:10 then I dunno 08:02:49 but let's forbid array neveretheless for fun 08:02:54 no arrays. :) 08:03:16 & * and [] are disallowed. 08:03:37 Jafet: it's useful to talk about C being "turing-complete" in a slightly less strict sense 08:04:19 while C, by definition, has finite memory, we can easily pretend it has unbounded memory, or you could make logical or actual shims to get around this 08:04:37 (e.g. "compile this code with N bit pointers, if it runs out of memory, compile with 2N bit pointers, etc." 08:05:11 mroman: http://c-faq.com/aryptr/aryptr2.html 08:06:49 coppro: there is file access in the C standard 08:07:03 and nothing in the standard restricts an impl from providing infinitely large files 08:08:02 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:08:56 coppro: That's why I added "let's forbid array nevertheless" :) 08:11:52 ais523: true, but that's not reliable either 08:12:11 but I suppose that it does let you get around the inherent boundedness 08:12:18 it's more interesting to do as I described though : 08:12:19 :) 08:12:42 also there's the weird case of forming a PDA using register variables and recursion 08:12:51 I don't believe anything in C prevents that being possible 08:14:02 anyway, b_jonas might have it right. I'm having difficulty convincing myself you can do better than a DPDA, since the memory you have access to at any given point is finite 08:15:29 well, exploiting UB you have other options 08:15:41 like longjmp /into/ a function, which is totally illegal 08:16:03 but which does normally work in practice if you're jumping back to the function you just came from with no function calls in between 08:16:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:16:13 again, let's not assume that works 08:16:18 actually, is that TC? 08:19:47 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:19:53 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 08:22:20 callforjudgement: I odn't think so 08:22:50 I'm trying to figure out what our assumptions are 08:23:01 you have a stack, and a pointer into that stack 08:23:08 the pointer can be moved downwards, or to the top 08:23:12 and you can push and pop things on the stack 08:23:18 oh, it is TC 08:23:19 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 08:23:26 that gives you enough control to use the stack as a queue 08:23:31 and one queue is enough 08:23:56 admittedly, the construction I'm thinking of contains a memory leak, but that doesn't matter for TCness 08:24:29 it can't be moved arbitrarily anywhere 08:24:39 How is it moved to the top of the stack? 08:24:46 oh, I see what you're thinking of 08:24:49 FireFly: by longjmping to yourself 08:24:51 yes, I think that works 08:25:08 oh. 08:27:08 ais523: you can't longjmp without pointers either 08:27:18 ais523: longjmp takes a pointer argument 08:27:28 or doesn't it? 08:27:41 b_jonas: it takes a jmp_buf argument 08:27:43 which is opaque 08:27:44 oh, it doesn't 08:27:46 great 08:27:57 hmm 08:28:11 admittedly you could make the point of "a jmp_buf must be finitely large, so you can use memcpy to look at the individual bits" 08:28:29 however, it could be implemented as offsets into a jump table with finitely many keys, but unboundedly large values 08:38:23 is jmp_buf allowed to fail? 08:38:36 jmp_buf is a type 08:38:43 I don't think setjmp is allowed to fail, but I'm not sure 08:39:07 it isn't 08:39:14 I happen to have a C11 draft open 08:39:18 so I quickly checked 08:41:15 -!- ais523 has quit. 09:21:10 -!- cpressey has joined. 09:21:35 hello 09:25:25 http://divisbyzero.com/2014/08/27/tangent-lines-to-the-sine-function-with-rational-slope/ <- I am very suspicious. I don't think this is right. 09:25:44 trivially, m=0 is also rational and also a tangent of the sine curve 09:26:30 less trivially... surely if a and c are irrational and b is rational and a < b < c and there is a continuous curve from a to c, it passes through b? 09:26:35 that one i'm less sure of 09:36:09 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:44:42 "...and a similar proof holds for the sine and cosine functions. Thus," <-- SLOPPY 09:45:27 The "similar proof" seems to be "if α is a nonzero algebraic number then sin(α), cos(α), tan(α) are transcendental" 09:46:16 what if α is nonzero, but non-algebraic, i.e. rational? 09:46:44 am I the only one awake here right now? :) 09:47:08 cpressey, I am looking at it 09:47:13 I NEED SOMETHING TO ENTERTAIN ME WHILE I OPTIMIZE QUERIES THROUGH THE GAUZE OF AN ORM 09:47:23 I think all rationals are algebraic 09:47:49 Taneb: yeah, technically that's true 09:49:12 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:49:30 Because a/b is a root of bx-a = 0 09:49:53 But then how can you say simple things like "slope = dy/dx = tan(theta)"? if tan(theta) is transcendental, then it's irrational, and cannot be expressed by dy/dx ! 09:51:19 I suspect there's some subtlety lurking in "transcendental" vs "irrational" 09:52:01 dy and dx are not integers, or indeed rationals 09:52:14 So dy/dx is not a rational 09:52:21 höhö. Real Time Ad Bidding 09:52:26 What a genius idea 09:52:52 ok; then you can only say "dy/dx = tan(theta)" if either dy or dx or both is irrational 09:54:04 so weird, because it seems to be the equivalent of saying there is no theta such that tan(theta) = 1/2 09:54:08 I believe dy and dx are both infinitismals 09:54:32 * cpressey backs away in fear 09:54:42 (in the context of derivatives) 09:54:46 Calculus is not my strong suit 09:54:56 However I agree that the conclusion of that blog post seems wrong 09:58:15 Taneb: calculus is *definitely* not my strong suit; this is actually the first thing lately in it that has piqued my interest. thanks for looking at it... 10:00:06 < coppro> an astral character may display correctly, but it counts as two for various things – Well, for what things? I need some kind of testcase to subject candidate recommendations to. 10:02:34 maybe the theta in tan(theta) = 1/2 is BEYOND TRANSCENDENTAL!!! 10:03:11 ok, unlikely 10:03:31 my word, this coffee is awful 10:08:23 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:08:24 -!- Lymee has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:08:51 -!- ^v has joined. 10:16:11 cpressey, that theta is certainly transcendental 10:18:53 Aha! 10:19:10 It's not asking whether there are any lines with rational gradient that are tangent to sin(x) 10:19:32 It's asking whether there are any lines with rational gradient that also go throw the origin that are tangent to sin(x) 10:22:43 ah. ok, that eliminates m=0 10:22:58 yeah, he didn't say y=mx+b, he just said y=mx 10:25:11 -!- boily has joined. 10:25:21 so that kind of reduces it to... what kind of number is arctan(1/2)? because, if tan(theta) is transcendental for theta != 0, ... 10:25:55 which could be reduced to "inverses of transcendental functions, how do they work?" 10:26:45 is the range really restricted to irrational numbers (and we just fudge it for practical purposes?) 10:27:17 s/range/domain/ 10:28:00 -!- Lymia has joined. 10:29:39 -!- hjulle has joined. 10:29:52 you know, it might actually *be* "beyond transcendental" 10:30:18 an uncomputable real (or at least, inexpressible as a transcendental) 10:31:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:38:05 scow <-- so what's "scow" in hebrew 10:47:30 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:55:51 but I could sell my religion as a sub-group of christianity <-- tricky, i'm afraid that biblical jesus explicitly answered the question of whether to pay taxes. 10:56:46 oerjan: he did? 10:57:43 that capitalist. 10:58:08 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 10:59:05 matthew 22:17-21 10:59:22 actually the english seems to use "tribute" 11:00:03 although it *may* be a bit confusing with us dollars, they have *both* a picture of a president and "in god we trust" on them. 11:01:33 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:02:02 oerjan: so what kind of number is arctan(1/2) anyway 11:02:15 > arctan (1/2) 11:02:16 Not in scope: ‘arctan’ 11:02:16 Perhaps you meant ‘atan’ (imported from Prelude) 11:02:23 > atan (1/2) 11:02:24 0.4636476090008061 11:02:28 > atan (1/2) / pi 11:02:30 0.14758361765043326 11:02:40 well 11:02:41 because if theta != 0 then tan(theta) is transcendental, and 1/2 is not transcendental 11:02:46 I can't give my money back to the guys that are on the bill 11:02:47 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 11:02:49 because they are dead 11:03:20 cpressey: erm presumably theta must be rational or algebraic or the like for that to be true. 11:03:38 algebraic, yes. and 1/2 is algebraic 11:04:27 er -- not that 1/2 being algebraic is very relevant. 11:04:33 atan(1) is pi/4 iirc 11:04:36 (i think. easy to get confused) 11:04:43 > atan 1 / pi 11:04:44 0.25 11:06:49 oerjan: you can see the log for context, but: a "slight variation" on Lindemann–Weierstrass theorem says that if a is algebraic and != 0, sin(a) is transcendental. so... if sin(a) is 1/2, it's not transcendental, so... is a not algebraic? 11:06:56 a is transcendental 11:06:58 i guess 11:07:13 oh sin is easier 11:07:19 > asin(1/2)/pi 11:07:21 0.16666666666666669 11:07:26 well, any transcendental function would suffer from this it seems 11:07:33 it's pi/6 11:07:45 ok ok i don't care about the values 11:07:51 which is indeed not algebraic 11:07:56 let me try the other tack 11:08:08 cpressey: but yes, that does imply a is not algebraic. 11:08:08 surely if a and c are irrational and b is rational and a < b < c and there is a continuous curve from a to c, it passes through b? 11:08:09 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 11:08:24 -!- idris-bot has joined. 11:08:32 yes, that's the intermediate value theorem. 11:08:52 oerjan: then how what why http://divisbyzero.com/2014/08/27/tangent-lines-to-the-sine-function-with-rational-slope/ 11:09:31 surely there will be SOME slope that passes through a rational as the slope varies as you "slide" up and down the sine curve 11:10:05 yes. and this is a problem how? 11:10:11 OH 11:10:21 through the ORIGIN 11:10:24 oh jeez 11:10:31 ok n/m 11:10:39 that result seems ultra-trivial now 11:11:01 um that link does not speak about the origin? 11:11:08 yes, it does 11:11:57 just reading comprehension fail on my part -- even after Taneb pointed it out (i was thinking y-axis for some reason) 11:13:07 I still think there's some right weirdness about transcendental functions 11:13:14 but it's much less weird than it seemed earlier 11:13:57 oerjan, US dollars tell us to trust God when He says give to Washington what is Washington's or something 11:14:48 Taneb: fiendish 11:15:22 Is Washington even on US currency? 11:17:31 until they replace the $1 bill with a coin, like all the SANE countries have done, i think he is 11:17:54 or is that someone else? don't really rememebr 11:18:07 it is washington 11:18:10 I haven't been to the US since I was 3 11:18:14 * oerjan was just looking it up 11:21:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MISALIGNED CHICKEN). 11:22:06 -!- shikhin has changed nick to godofgods. 11:22:48 -!- godofgods has changed nick to shikhin. 11:27:47 i get it now; flipside of Lindemann–Weierstrass; if f(a) is rational, and f is a transcendental function, then a must be transcendental 11:28:45 well, or at least for sin/cos/tan; there may be other, weirder functions 11:29:46 I NEED SOMETHING TO ENTERTAIN ME WHILE I OPTIMIZE QUERIES THROUGH THE GAUZE OF AN ORM <-- this gets so much better if you use the norwegian meaning of ORM 11:30:30 or rather, the norse meaning, which sort of includes dragons 11:31:56 cpressey: i'm not sure that "transcendental function" has a very exact meaning 11:32:03 “wyrm”? 11:32:12 Melvar: that's cognate, yes 11:32:31 also to "worm", naturally. 11:33:20 Yes, but given the inclusion of dragons, “wyrm” seemed more appropriate to ask. 11:34:03 cpressey: if you define it simply as "not algebraic", then it would include fairly trivial counterexamples. 11:34:12 And then there’s the Zamonian Orm, which is … writer’s divine inspiration, I guess? 11:34:28 i think "wyrm" may be just the old plural of "worm"? 11:35:03 @ety wyrm 11:35:03 Parse failed: TemplateHaskell is not enabled 11:35:22 … huh. 11:36:14 @ety 11:36:14 Define what? 11:36:44 int-e: bug ^ 11:37:00 are you sure? 11:37:16 ety has editing distance two from let... 11:37:27 aha 11:37:59 my brain somehow saw "Define what?" and thought "ok, that sounds like a dictionary command" 11:38:26 (Yes this auto-correction can be very confusing. But that's a different matter.) 11:39:02 ok "wyrm" isn't plural, just an older form 11:39:45 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/worm 11:40:32 An older form for an older sense, to a degree. Neat. 11:41:05 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:41:27 Wonderful Object-Relational Mapper (with heavy sarcasm on the "wonderful") 11:43:37 As in Pandora's box of wonders? 11:45:03 . o O ( Though perhaps that analagy is too optimistic; there was hope in *that* box. ) 11:46:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:46:12 In German, the more general sort of worms has mostly only survived in compounds like “Lindwurm” and “Tatzelwurm”. 11:47:07 I believe dy and dx are both infinitismals <-- that is if you are giving them separate meanings at all; in elementary calculus definitions dy/dx is not really decomposed into dy and dx, but is more like a notation for a higher-order function 11:48:51 there's also an option of considering dy and dx as differential forms 11:49:12 which means they're still not numbers 11:49:25 oh, we're at wurms and worms and wyrms? 11:49:35 * cpressey backs away in even more fear 11:50:27 cpressey: dy/dx is leibnit?z's intuitive notation, which works if you know what you're doing. 11:51:22 no t, apparently 11:51:40 (although at least one website got it wrong) 11:56:15 oerjan: and here i thought slope was just "rise over run" 11:56:40 who knows who put that phrase into my head 11:56:49 some math teacher, way back when 11:56:57 that's the average slope 11:57:08 but if you want slope at a point, you must take the limit of that 11:57:17 yes, i suppose you must 11:58:04 and then it gets all ugly 11:58:59 not necessarily uglier than when you don't take the limit 11:59:45 the limit allows you to toss away many of the error terms 12:01:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:12:10 well... philosophically ugly? 12:13:14 "infinitesimals" 12:13:49 some will wave their hands, others will attempt to build a workable basis under it 12:15:15 still others will shout "NO!", perhaps 12:15:27 the definitions in introductory calculus don't use infinitesimals. 12:16:26 indeed, you don't need to, but you can, and then they call your system of analysis "non-standard" for some reason 12:16:40 that's just an alternative approach which takes some really heavy stuff to get consistent, and which also happens to be what people hand-waved *before* they learned how to define calculus properly. 12:17:23 fine. i'm a finitist. i only believe in finitesimals. of course, i'm only taking this position in order to intentionally make it ugly 12:19:40 wikipedia does not have a page for Finitesimal 12:19:44 their loss 12:22:57 and yet... https://www.wordnik.com/words/finitesimal 12:24:45 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:42:22 actually, i wonder if i AM a finitist 12:43:02 i'm certainly not an ultrafinitist. that's just silly. 12:43:41 i believe the definition of infinite sets is valid, even though they can never be concretely realized 12:45:11 huh, it's kind of like how aesthetic philosophers can say that a picture of a unicorn has a null denotation, because unicorns don't exist 12:45:19 (as if they know unicorns don't exist) 12:54:06 would an ultrafinitist assert that 2↑↑↑6 - 2↑↑↑6 cannot be shown to be 0, on the grounds that 2↑↑↑6 is just too darn big? 12:54:49 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:55:13 maybe sufficiently big numbers are susceptible to bit errors 13:01:27 . o O ( Please stand by while we evaluate that difference... ) 13:03:50 Please convince me that 2↑↑6 is a natural number. I already have trouble fitting 6^6^6^6 into my (computer's) brain... 13:03:59 ... 13:04:49 Sorry that has nothing to do with it. But indeed 2^2^2^2^2^2 is too large for my computer. :) 13:04:54 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Esenin-Volpin#Mathematical_work 13:05:05 box quote 13:06:38 yeah. 13:06:50 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 13:07:09 oerjan: I think I anticipated this in my "Please stand by" remark. 13:08:05 anticipation is the sincerest form of imitation 13:09:10 From a different perspective, math is about anticipation: I anticipate that 2↑↑↑6 - 2↑↑↑6 is zero. 13:09:18 s/is/will be/ 13:10:15 what is the ratio of anticipation to perspiration 13:10:43 Ooh, infinity?! 13:11:03 I mean I actually anticipate that n-n = 1 for any natural number n. 13:11:10 ... 13:11:14 spot the typo. 13:11:18 2 is a natural number, 6 is a natural number, and and arrowarrowarrow maps pairs of natural numbers to natural numbers 13:12:22 (I have no excuse for that. I simply should not think about n/n while typing n-n...) 13:12:29 actually, i don't know what i am, because in some sense i believe 1/0 - 1/0 = 0, too 13:12:55 https://youtu.be/g10DqPbbUuw that combination of video and music disturbs me 13:13:05 cpressey: Right, there's some grounds for doubting that 2^^^6 is a natural number. 13:13:59 i used to be an infinitist, but then i took an arrow to the knee 13:14:00 int-e: i don't see them, though (unless they lie in the area of doubt about the validity of structural induction) 13:14:02 I'm pretty sure that 1/0 is not a natural number, as a matter of anticipation: Such a natural number d would have to satisfy d*0 = 1, but I anticipate that d*0 will always be 0 instead. 13:14:28 (today's retro-meme sponsored by coca-cola (TM)) 13:14:33 (I also anticipate this discussion getting out of hand.) 13:16:06 oerjan, 2012 is retro!? 13:16:36 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:16:53 isn't it older than that 13:17:56 Skyrim came out in November 2011 13:18:01 So yes, but not by much 13:19:04 of course the first thing i heard about the meme was people being sick of it 13:21:55 i also think I believe there are more natural numbers than there are even natural numbers 13:22:20 yes, i know those two sets have the same cardinality 13:22:57 hm. 13:23:08 I'd say that the set of natural numbers should be bigger than the set of even/odd numbers 13:23:14 since only every second number is even/odd 13:23:15 so 13:23:16 I believe that the weather is terrible here right now 13:23:22 ~metar EGNT 13:23:26 the set of natural numbers should be twice as large. 13:23:55 that only seems intuitive. and, as we all know, in mathematics, intuition reigns 13:24:08 Afterall 13:24:17 every number except 1 should be the same size as every number except 2 13:24:33 and smaller then the set of every number 13:24:34 *than 13:24:39 @metar ENVA 13:24:40 ENVA 311320Z 25005KT 210V290 9999 FEW040TCU 05/M03 Q0982 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 33003KT 13:24:46 @metar EGNT 13:24:47 EGNT 311320Z 28024G35KT 9999 FEW015CB 07/01 Q1000 13:24:49 At least that's my intuition as a sucker at math. 13:26:21 1/n for n -> infinity is infinity too 13:26:30 eh 13:26:33 1/n for n -> 0 is infinity 13:26:52 which suggests that infinity * 0 may be 1! 13:27:22 which doesn't make sense :) 13:28:11 1/n for n -> infinity is 0 (according to many people) 13:28:48 yep 13:28:52 i meant -> 0 13:31:25 just because 1/0 - 1/0 = 0 (in my current madness) doesn't mean that 1/0 = infinity, i should note 13:32:26 it's more that 1/0 is "poorly defined" but - is able to operate on things that are poorly defined 13:32:29 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 13:36:36 i would have to work this out in detail, but "how many [even] natural numbers" are also "poorly defined", but again, > is able to operate on them 13:37:08 i'm just kind of hoping someone here sees my madness as says "oh yes, i've seen that before, that's ____ism" 13:38:30 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:49:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:56:55 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:02:44 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:07:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:09:54 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:11:38 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 14:15:48 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:16:09 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:16:13 -!- ^v has joined. 14:16:35 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:16:58 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:18:11 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 14:27:10 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:30:01 -!- hjulle has joined. 14:40:07 you may well ask what i believe 0 * 1/0 to be. 14:40:11 it's very simple. 14:40:23 0 * 1/0 contains a race condition, and should not be used in production mathematics 14:41:00 Melvar: in a terminal emulator, it will sort of occupy two columns 14:41:02 sort of not 14:41:19 if you backspace it, you only delete the second surrogate and not the first also 14:48:20 another option is that 0 * 1/0 = {0, 1}. why should square root have all the fun of being multi-valued? 14:50:16 cpressey, 0*x = 0, so {0, 1} = 0 * 1/0 = (0*x) * 1/0 = 0 * (x * 1/0) = 0 * (x/0) = x??? 14:52:01 coppro: I’ve never noticed any such errors in either gnome-terminal or xfce4-terminal, fwiw. 14:53:21 cpressey, I am suggesting that the set of values 0 * 1/0 is the set of values multiplication is defined for and remains associative 14:54:37 Taneb: yes, well. race conditions are nasty 14:56:30 I believe I will retreat to either 0 * 1/0 = 0, or 0 * 1/0 = 0/0 (which is also "poorly defined") 14:57:04 it could also be 0 * 1 * 0^(-1) = 0 * 0^(-1) * 1 = 1, no? 14:57:47 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:58:38 I have definitely not defined ^ yet 14:58:51 And what is it with all this so-called "algebra" 14:59:16 0 * 1/0 = 0/0 holds in wheel theory, anyway. 15:00:02 Melvar: yeah 15:00:11 Melvar: but how configurable and nice are they? 15:00:15 can I get rid of all the window decoration? 15:03:52 if wheel theory can make the guts of this madness consistent, i'm all for it 15:04:03 https://github.com/aheui/aheui.aheui 15:04:26 awesome 15:04:32 https://github.com/aheui/aheui.aheui/blob/master/aheui.aheui 15:04:41 possibly even more awesome if you can read hangul 15:04:48 because then it sounds like something instead of just looks like something 15:06:02 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:06:58 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:07:54 cpressey, even to native speakers, this is *really* weird sounded. :) 15:08:06 :) 15:11:14 coppro: I am rid of the window decoration by dint of using xmonad, don’t know how one would remove it if something chooses to draw it in the first place; the menu bar is hideable. In general, probably less configurable than konsole, just by a rule of thumb. 15:11:23 Hm. 15:16:30 -!- gde33 has joined. 15:19:05 yeah, no, yeah, wheel theory isn't going to help this 15:23:13 oh great, now i'm listening to bjork singing about lucky nights "when 1 + 1 = 3." this isn't helping 15:25:01 i don't see why my multiplication *has* to be commutative 15:25:25 it's just more useful that way 15:25:56 matrix multiplication is not commutative and still useful 15:28:34 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:29:26 does anybody know if there was anything about two-dimensional languages of interest in "real science" besides PLAN2D? 15:30:23 do 2D cellular automata qualify? 15:30:48 whoa. i had not heard of PLAN2D. 15:31:05 1974. 15:31:31 2d ca's should totally qualify if you are talking about computation, maybe not so much if you are talking about programming 15:31:47 i am talking about programming 15:31:54 flowcharts 15:31:55 i know there are a bunch of formal languages 15:32:31 myname: flowcharts, seriously 15:33:05 cpressey: well, yeah, but you don't compile flowcharts 15:33:49 myname: you have to be specific about your constraints. 2-dimensional, programming, compiled... 15:34:09 that's it basically 15:35:05 I wonder whether Plankalkül qualifies as a 2D language (it specifies functions as tables that can be nested) 15:35:17 int-e: i would say yes 15:35:34 "but you don't compile plankalkuel" 15:37:02 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:37:06 http://zuse-z1.zib.de/simulations/plankalkuel/compiler/plankalk.html ... uses a linearized input format :/ 15:37:56 Oh I had not found http://www.catb.org/retro/plankalkuel/ yet... 15:38:47 2-dimensional, programming, compiled, ... and DOES NOT ADMIT A LINEARIZED INPUT FORMAT 15:38:51 check and mate 15:38:57 cpressey: impossible 15:40:01 oh well you must know that. 15:53:03 myname: will you accept "interpreted" as well as "compiled"? 15:53:16 cpressey: name it 15:53:23 spreadsheets 15:53:55 that is indeed an interesting approach 15:55:16 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:55:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:58:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:10:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: DOES NOT ADMIT A LINEARIZED DEFINITION). 16:17:26 -!- adu has joined. 16:18:13 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:37:37 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:39:29 -!- zadock has joined. 16:46:44 -!- heroux has joined. 16:54:52 -!- Lymee has joined. 16:55:16 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:57:46 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:58:12 http://www.philforhumanity.com/Zero_Times_Infinity.html "This is the definition of undefined." 16:58:35 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:59:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Client Quit). 17:00:04 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:08:57 0 * ⊥ 17:10:24 if your turing machine is going to loop forever, it might as well do something useful while it's looping forever, for example, search for a proof that it loops forever 17:10:38 +++ 17:10:39 ? 17:10:53 coppro: NO CARRIER 17:11:32 +++ DIVIDE BY CUCUMBER ERROR +++ 17:11:32 ? 17:11:33 +++ATH0 17:11:33 ? 17:11:40 +++ PLEASE REINSTALL UNIVERSE +++ 17:11:40 ? 17:11:57 +,p 17:11:58 heavier 17:12:08 ominous 17:13:41 +,d 17:13:50 +!cal -m 17:13:50 ? 17:14:06 +r !cal -m 17:14:06 ? 17:15:18 +e /etc/passwd 17:15:19 ? 17:23:26 -!- variable has joined. 17:24:10 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:28:08 -!- Lymee has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:31:03 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:33:08 -!- vodkode has joined. 17:44:33 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 18:02:19 -!- Zefphex has joined. 18:02:52 Do you ever get that feeling when you see a car you're just like please hit me 18:03:32 no 18:03:46 Really 18:03:51 Not once? 18:05:56 So what you been doin' lately int-e 18:06:36 I avoided being hit by cars, among other things. 18:08:13 No but like never an internal feeling of like hit me car I dare you 18:08:16 Just me ok 18:09:10 I guess its a youngin' thing int-e is to old to wish to be hit directly with a speeding chunk of steel 18:13:30 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 18:13:45 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:13:56 ©_ 18:14:55 How do you calculate the infinite curvature of a tomatoe using polynumerals 18:22:47 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:23:14 -!- ^v has joined. 18:23:39 x^2+4y+ 2(x^2+8xy^3) 18:23:42 Found it 18:23:47 Polynomials* 18:25:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:28:01 -!- oren has joined. 18:28:01 > x^2+4y+ 2(x^2+8xy^3) 18:28:03 Ambiguous occurrence ‘y’ 18:28:03 It could refer to either ‘L.y’, defined at L.hs:143:1 18:28:03 or ‘Debug.SimpleReflect.y’, 18:28:08 Ah yes 18:28:19 I forgot I cant code 18:29:06 @type L.y 18:29:07 Foo 18:29:17 @undef 18:29:17 Undefined. 18:29:34 does Java enforce capitals on type names 18:29:55 C++ doesn't 18:30:44 I don't think so but I haven't been on a computer in 3 years to find out 18:30:54 I don't know how Java does, but in C and C++ the type names are just like any other name; in Haskell you can indicate that it is a type or constructor by capitalizing it. 18:32:01 [wiki] [[User:Rottytooth]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42243&oldid=41898 * Rottytooth * (+22) added Time Out 18:34:38 Ok... Apparently Java allows me to make classes with any "letters" including unicode 18:35:04 -!- adu has joined. 18:35:52 So I can have separate classes named Αpple, Apple, apple, and Аpple 18:36:44 What is wrong with that? 18:37:02 Or surprising 18:38:35 It is surprising because in general languages tend to be ascii, except in strings and comments. It is bad, because there are many characters which are visually identical 18:38:58 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:40:09 I am not sure about that first point 18:40:13 I know at least Haskell isn't 18:40:24 with great power comes great responsibility 18:41:43 oerjan: not sure hth 18:42:31 Hmm, C seems to be ASCII 18:43:50 I do agree that only strings and comments should be allowed to use non-ASCII characters. 18:44:41 I was only aware of unicode names being allowed in Perl. 18:45:54 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 18:47:06 another problem could be invisible names: https://www.snip2code.com/Snippet/54187/Unicode-special-space-characters-as-ruby 18:47:20 which apparently Ruby allows 18:48:56 If non-ASCII names are allowed, you will allow such things like that too, generally. 18:50:29 -!- Lymia has joined. 18:50:51 Some formats are required to allow non-ASCII names. RDF Turtle does, although my implementation simply allows all bytes 128-255 and all escape codes wherever any escape code or non-ASCII character is allowed. This is one way to do such an implementation without confusion, but still I would recommend, don't use non-ASCII characters outside of string literals and comments. 19:02:05 >ㄲ 19:09:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:14:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:23:53 -!- bb010g has joined. 19:27:53 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 19:37:54 -!- cpressey has joined. 19:41:07 [wiki] [[Time Out]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42244 * Rottytooth * (+2646) adding new language 19:42:19 [wiki] [[Time Out]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42245&oldid=42244 * Rottytooth * (-3) /* Language Overview */ formatting, adding how programs end 19:44:10 [wiki] [[Time Out]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42246&oldid=42245 * Rottytooth * (+25) /* External resources */ 19:45:02 Just so you know, there'll be a planned fungot outage soonishly. 19:45:02 fizzie: ( which is added to make it recursive... so that it could be 19:45:16 fungot: No, not a recursive outage. How would that even work? 19:45:16 fizzie: a real schemer when i use fnord for underlambda, .ul for underload 19:45:53 Warning! Recursive outage ahead! 19:46:38 * cpressey does not know how that would even work, but finds it immensely entertaining to consider 19:48:41 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:54:53 Wouldn't a recursive outagebe one where an outage of one server causes another to fail, for multiple levels? 19:54:54 [wiki] [[Time Out]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42247&oldid=42246 * Rottytooth * (-1) /* Hello World */ helloworld was wrong 19:56:54 bye 19:57:08 [wiki] [[Talk:Time Out]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42248 * Rottytooth * (+244) call for comments 19:57:54 [wiki] [[Time Out]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42249&oldid=42247 * Rottytooth * (+0) /* Language Overview */ fixed forth link 19:58:23 -!- Zefphex has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:00:34 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:03:16 oren: something like that; my first thought was an outage on one level causing an outage on "the underlying level", whatever that might mean exactly 20:03:28 a software outage causing a hardware outage causing a reality outage 20:03:39 cpressey: Do you like Magic: the Puzzling??? 20:03:54 zzo38: I have never tried Magic: The Puzzling 20:04:22 I have the book, but I also wrote some by myself too. 20:04:33 -!- ^v^v has joined. 20:08:31 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:10:50 Maybe you should try, too 20:13:46 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:16:25 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 20:21:51 -!- fungot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:23:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:24:44 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:26:13 -!- cpressey has joined. 20:48:42 [wiki] [[Time Out]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42250&oldid=42249 * Rottytooth * (+197) /* Hello World */ 20:49:19 [wiki] [[Time Out]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42251&oldid=42250 * Rottytooth * (+27) /* Hello World */ 20:51:15 -!- adu has joined. 20:55:33 Do you know anything about algorithm for optimizing the frequent words table of a Z-machine file? 21:00:08 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:00:38 It seems complicated to me, because of possibility of overlapping, as well as the possibility that they will change the optimal shift sequence of other strings. 21:08:35 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:14:02 However, maybe a good approximation is easier. 21:19:02 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:20:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:27:09 -!- fungot has joined. 21:27:47 Whoops. 21:27:50 -!- fungot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:29:49 -!- fungot has joined. 21:31:11 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:44:39 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:48:02 -!- Lymia has joined. 21:48:02 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 21:51:03 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:54:24 [wiki] [[Time Out]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42252&oldid=42251 * Rottytooth * (-81) /* Concept */ 21:54:57 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:01:41 -!- variable has joined. 22:13:34 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 22:15:27 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 22:17:18 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:18:17 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 22:24:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:38:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:43:52 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:43:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 22:43:53 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:40:25 -!- iamevn has joined. 23:43:06 http://docs.idris-lang.org/en/latest/effects/introduction.html I approve of the footnote 23:48:35 [wiki] [[Brainfuck algorithms]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42253&oldid=41715 * 199.21.86.10 * (+1) /* if (x) { code1 } else { code2 } */ fix Daniel Marschall's solution. It would never end. 23:54:24 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 23:56:35 -!- boily has joined. 23:59:21 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)).