00:05:27 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
00:52:16 -!- boily has joined.
00:53:33 -!- bixnode has joined.
01:00:01 <boily> @tell zzo38 hezzo38. verily, 3-player mahjong is a completely different game from regular riichi.
01:01:49 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
01:13:15 <lambdabot> CYUL 130100Z 23007KT 15SM FEW240 11/01 A3018 RMK CI1 CI TR SLP222
01:13:37 <boily> oerjan: hellørjan. please confirm that you see 11/01 as well.
01:16:51 <oerjan> I SEE DEA^W NO WAIT, IT'S JUST 11/01
01:17:33 <lambdabot> CYYZ 130100Z 19004KT 15SM FEW220 14/00 A3017 RMK CI2 SLP219
01:18:09 <orin> seems like it's a bit warmer up by the airport
01:19:51 <lambdabot> ENVA 130050Z 27017KT 9999 FEW019 BKN033 04/01 Q1004 RMK WIND 670FT 28017KT
01:20:04 <oerjan> well it is the middle of the night..
01:20:32 <oerjan> hm there isn't anything in there that tells timezone is there
01:20:44 <oerjan> i guess planes always use UTC anyway
01:21:01 <orin> it is 2122 hrs local time in Tronto
01:21:04 -!- hjulle has joined.
01:21:17 <boily> oerjan: 00:50:00+0000.
01:21:24 -!- bixnode has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:22:24 <oerjan> boily: ok i don't see those numbers up in the metar
01:23:42 <boily> oerjan: they are grouped as 130050Z. 13 is the 13th of the month. 00h, 50m, Z for Zulu time.
01:23:45 <oerjan> weather in montorondheim
01:24:04 <oerjan> yes but Zulu time is UTC
01:24:09 <boily> I could get used to living in Montorondheim.
01:24:21 <boily> oerjan: yes. therefor, 00:50:00:+0000.
01:24:48 <boily> or something like that.
01:24:56 * boily is plagued by typo spirits...
01:25:16 <oerjan> well my reason for timezone interest was to tell whether it's day or night, so converting to UTC isn't very helpful.
01:26:19 * oerjan is reminded about that "why changing to one timezone for the world is stupid" essay
01:27:29 <boily> you have to remember ENVA is somewhere in Norway, and so it's +0100.
01:27:39 <boily> (or whatever timezone Norway is in.)
01:27:43 <oerjan> hm too many google hits
01:29:02 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
01:34:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:50:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CURATED CHICKEN).
01:57:39 <oerjan> <b_jonas> I don't think there's a uniqueness requirement for esolang names. <-- * briefly considers inventing a language named "brainfuck"
01:59:37 <elliott> ais523 had that idea but I think it was going to be Brainfuck with a capital b
01:59:47 <elliott> or should that be capital B
02:04:30 * oerjan briefly considers inventing a language named "brаinfuсk"
02:08:10 <orin> I think they should have phonecian unification
02:09:28 <oerjan> orin: that's going to be hard with the latin alphabet having several letters that descend from the same phonecian one
02:10:10 <oerjan> (well that's same in greek, i'm not sure about phonecian proper)
02:10:18 <orin> Hmm, true, but we can at least unify the ones that look the same
02:12:55 <oerjan> look the same but entirely different meanings?
02:13:49 <oerjan> or look the same in one case but not the other, like omicron
02:13:52 <orin> we can at LEAST a and alpha and cyrillic a
02:14:37 <orin> And unify cyrillic sha with hebrew shin
02:17:18 <oerjan> <orin> God damn it those are opening quotes not... agh <-- you could say HackEgo ... `Triggered
02:17:43 <orin> arabic doesn't really look at all like phonecian
02:18:38 <oerjan> note that phonecian descendants also include indic scripts afaik
02:19:39 <oerjan> they don't even look at all like each _other_ either
02:20:55 <oerjan> the idea of the alphabet was only invented once. although hangul probably didn't borrow much of the forms.
02:21:51 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
02:22:03 <pikhq> Hangul didn't borrow any of the forms -- it cribbed from Chinese script rather than an alphabet.
02:25:25 <orin> katakana and hiragana are literally just very lazily written versions of chinese characters that sort of sounded correct
02:26:25 <orin> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Hiragana_origin.svg
02:27:27 <orin> compartively I think hangul is more creative
02:28:02 <pikhq> Yep. Hangul was designed, kana evolved.
02:55:28 -!- Frooxius has joined.
02:56:19 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
02:57:14 -!- heroux has joined.
02:58:23 -!- variable has joined.
03:03:02 <oerjan> yum pepperoni and pineapple
03:04:40 -!- encapsulation has joined.
03:34:00 <izabera> https://github.com/graue/esofiles/blob/master/brainfuck/src/factor.b using this one
03:34:10 <izabera> real: 0m51.399s, user: 0m51.213s, sys: 0m0.107s
03:53:01 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
03:59:19 -!- vodkode_ has joined.
04:01:31 <fungot> Jafet: that would never be that clever... ( at least they have planet.lisp.org pointed over to it. i know we are talking about
04:03:24 <Jafet> Let f(n) be the number of steps used by factor.b to factor n
04:03:53 -!- Hijiri has joined.
04:23:20 <elliott> izabera: that's kind of impressive when it takes so long to even rot13
04:25:42 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
04:40:26 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: max: not found
04:42:34 -!- zzo38 has joined.
04:47:11 <zzo38> I had a idea, make up the All The Tropes Card Game; if you collect all of the tropes then you win.
04:47:19 <lambdabot> boily said 3h 47m 22s ago: hezzo38. verily, 3-player mahjong is a completely different game from regular riichi.
04:47:41 <zzo38> Yes I know 3-players game uses different rules
04:48:03 <zzo38> Although, I still to prefer to play such game using the rules of 4-players game.
04:52:08 <Hijiri> is there a program I can use to play net riichi mahjong in freedom
05:02:00 <zzo38> But, I also want to play Washizu mahjong
05:09:29 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
05:14:43 -!- variable has joined.
05:26:45 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero).
05:27:02 -!- variable has joined.
05:45:48 -!- function has joined.
05:47:19 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
05:54:44 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
06:07:28 -!- Froox has joined.
06:09:48 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
06:10:10 -!- function has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
06:19:26 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
06:23:28 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
06:23:33 -!- Frooxius has joined.
06:23:43 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:26:08 -!- variable has joined.
06:41:22 <izabera> real: 0m12.853s, user: 0m12.713s, sys: 0m0.120s
06:41:31 <izabera> $ time echo hello world | bf examples/rot13.b
06:41:35 <izabera> real: 0m2.833s, user: 0m2.817s, sys: 0m0.010s
06:45:56 <elliott> oh... because in [a[b]c] you look for the ] after the b when hitting its [
06:46:01 <elliott> every iteration of the a[b]c loop
06:46:14 <elliott> I feel silly for not realising that before
06:46:29 <elliott> I assumed there wasn't any overhead compared to preparsing
06:47:24 <izabera> well now the rot13 has about 2s starting overhead, and it prints several characters per second... which is much better than the my first version that took about 5s per letter
06:49:17 <elliott> with variable speed I think
06:50:12 <elliott> you're in a programming channel, what do you expect? >_>
06:54:12 <izabera> https://github.com/izabera/bf/blob/master/bf tadaaa!
06:54:18 <izabera> harder! better! faster! stronger!
06:55:52 -!- variable has changed nick to function.
06:55:56 <function> elliott, izabera: fine, I'll pick a better nick
06:57:34 <elliott> izabera: corollary: your work is never over. you have to improve this interpreter for the rest of eternity
06:58:03 <oerjan> the interpreter of the damned
07:14:35 -!- function has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
07:52:37 <izabera> $ time bf examples/factor.b <<< 42
07:52:44 <izabera> real: 0m4.411s, user: 0m4.313s, sys: 0m0.090s
07:52:58 <izabera> apparently computing the length of the program each time is stupid and slow <.<
08:02:03 <fizzie> I was wondering about that, whether it'd make a difference.
08:05:53 <fizzie> Collapsing repeated instructions into one is also pretty common, I think even with interpreters. fungot does that, for example.
08:05:53 <fungot> fizzie: other than jpegtopnm and convert, are there any frontends for scheme which have a pleasant time!!
08:06:43 <fizzie> fungot: I didn't even know those were frontends for Scheme.
08:06:44 <fungot> fizzie: i don't see how such artificial restrictions can help in learning. use what you want
08:06:56 <fizzie> And that one sounds like a verbatim quote.
08:07:05 <fizzie> fungot: Try to be a little more original, okay?
08:07:05 <fungot> fizzie: and on providing unreadably succinct names for the srfi-33 ones, they were using the platypus book and using c++. the prof seems to be
08:07:33 <fungot> izabera: ( procedure)'. how do i, there... expr puts value of expr there... expr puts value of expr and output it
08:08:59 <izabera> it hurt itself in confusion
08:28:40 -!- contrapumpkin has joined.
08:32:19 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
08:32:36 -!- Patashu has joined.
08:50:00 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:50:20 -!- Patashu has joined.
09:05:31 <roman2> fungot: You should try IronScheme.
09:05:32 <fungot> roman2: how tremendously boring you, perhaps. not that cross compiling isn't great, but i'm going to
09:06:02 <roman2> Help, fungot is going to cross compile something.
09:06:03 <fungot> roman2: so do i. i was new, stairway to heaven sucks. get vmware. or just start up the script again, it creates a time loop somewhere
09:06:59 <fizzie> It's also going to create a time loop. I'm worried.
09:08:32 <oerjan> well obviously fungot is getting tired of waiting for ais523 to implement feather so has decided to do it emself.
09:08:32 <fungot> oerjan: how do i get the latest pika without wasting effort with arch? i've been using it
09:09:32 <fungot> oerjan: there's no reason not to try. patenting can't be the value of ( list)
09:10:05 <oerjan> fungot: the value of list i nil, which is about the same as patenting.
09:10:06 <fungot> oerjan: would make me less confused, he just assembles all the bits in the message
09:10:21 <izabera> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDEGFFEEEEDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBB <- output after 25 minutes of mandelbrot.b
09:13:44 <roman2> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:ESOSC
09:13:51 <roman2> nortti, Taneb: There's some work to do
09:13:55 -!- roman2 has changed nick to mroman.
09:14:09 <lambdabot> ENVA 130850Z 30017KT 9999 4000E -SN FEW005 SCT010CB BKN020 01/00 Q1012 TEMPO 1500 SHSNRA VV008 RMK WIND 670FT 31028KT
09:14:50 <lifthrasiir> izabera: are you making a bf interpreter? :)
09:15:20 <izabera> lifthrasiir: https://github.com/izabera/bf/blob/master/bf
09:15:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
09:17:05 <lifthrasiir> izabera: it might be actually faster to translate bf into (say) awk script and let awk to interpret that.
09:17:54 <oerjan> wasn't the point to use only shell builtins
09:19:17 <mroman> a compiler that translates to another language
09:19:21 <mroman> like regular compilers do
09:19:55 <mroman> but assumingly transpilers compile to a same generation language rather than a lower generation language :)
09:20:58 <mroman> "A source-to-source compiler translates between programming languages that operate at approximately the same level of abstraction, while a traditional compiler translates from a higher level programming language to a lower level programming language."
09:21:01 <oerjan> they just keep piling on
09:21:08 <mroman> WP says the same thing about that.
09:21:24 <mroman> technically bf -> asm is transpiling
09:21:32 <mroman> it's probably beven uppiling I'd say
09:21:35 <mroman> since you translate upwards
09:21:43 <mroman> from low level to high level
09:22:07 <mroman> it's not compiling nor transpiling
09:22:38 <mroman> hypertranspiling and hypotranspiling
09:22:55 <oerjan> please don't mix greek and latin hth
09:23:07 <oerjan> super or sub, although i don't think they quite fit
09:23:54 <oerjan> of course transpiling is probably a portmanteau anyway
09:24:55 <oerjan> ooh the original meaning of "compile" is "plunder, pillage, rob, steal"
09:25:09 <mroman> With all the software pirates out there.
09:25:57 <fizzie> Dispiling. (Compare converge/diverge.)
09:28:25 <mroman> somebody added a non existing File to pogaack
09:31:55 <oerjan> oh it should clearly be "depiling".
09:32:06 <oerjan> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/depilo#Latin
09:33:29 <fizzie> Or perhaps "defiling".
09:35:01 <mroman> compilation -> decompilation
09:35:06 <mroman> depiliation -> dedepilation?
09:35:46 <mroman> (where dedepilation = transpilation)?
09:37:07 <fizzie> 1. dilapidate -- (bring into a condition of decay or partial ruin by neglect or misuse)
09:37:11 <fizzie> Yes, that sounds about right.
09:40:40 <mroman> I dilapidated lots of coding projects.
09:40:50 <mroman> Burlesque is pretty much dilapidating.
09:45:36 <mroman> fungot: Does fizzie dilapidate you?
09:45:36 <fungot> mroman: you figured it out before there were any interesting english-speaking scheme or lisp
09:45:52 <mroman> Of course I figured it out before everybody.
09:46:16 <mroman> Mostly to generate fancy looking passwords.
09:46:55 <fizzie> Have to admit I'm quilty of some amount of neglect there.
10:07:55 -!- oerjan has set topic: Dilapitated depilators | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
10:08:34 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
10:10:31 -!- Patashu_ has joined.
10:10:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services).
10:23:08 -!- boily has joined.
10:28:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42404&oldid=42370 * Rdococ * (+14)
10:29:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42405&oldid=42404 * Rdococ * (-14) Undo revision 42404 by [[Special:Contributions/Rdococ|Rdococ]] ([[User talk:Rdococ|talk]])
10:30:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42406&oldid=42405 * Rdococ * (-8)
11:14:30 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
11:14:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folder]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42407&oldid=42403 * Rdococ * (+263) /* Structure */ added concept of substates
11:15:31 -!- Patashu has joined.
11:18:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DREAMT CHICKEN).
11:18:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folder]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42408&oldid=42407 * Rdococ * (+284) /* Input/Output */
11:22:20 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
11:23:37 -!- Patashu has joined.
11:24:37 -!- int-e has left ("PRETENTIOUS CHICKEN").
11:24:37 -!- int-e has joined.
11:27:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services).
11:27:35 -!- Patashu_ has joined.
11:31:07 -!- Patashu has joined.
11:34:00 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
11:34:44 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services).
11:34:44 -!- Patashu_ has joined.
11:37:39 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Client Quit).
11:37:52 <izabera> omg it only printed 4 lines so far of that mandelbrot set
11:39:29 <izabera> i guess i could try to optimize the bf code...
11:50:30 -!- vodkode_ has joined.
11:55:03 <mroman> better optimize the optimizer
11:55:11 <mroman> that has more value to the community :)
11:55:24 <oerjan> but but then you risk singularity
11:56:56 -!- hjulle has joined.
11:58:12 <mroman> fungot: Would you risk the singularity?
11:58:12 <fungot> mroman: if you're getting signatures for keeping strip clubs open. heh.) are created before those variables are indeed bound, so that gambit can start implementing it? :d
11:58:48 <mroman> Does it like strip clubs?
12:01:03 <oerjan> i think fungot may be planning something with blackjack and hookers
12:01:52 <oerjan> fungot: i am not sure what you mean by putting "and" in scare quotes, but i'm sure it's disturbing.
12:01:52 <fungot> oerjan: as for the thing to all three servers at once? :) i don't know why
12:15:43 -!- Taneb has changed nick to atriq.
12:16:00 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb.
12:27:46 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
12:29:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42409&oldid=42391 * Esowiki201529A * (+96) /* Hello, World! */
12:30:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42410&oldid=42409 * Esowiki201529A * (+36) /* Hello, World! */
12:31:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42411&oldid=42410 * Esowiki201529A * (+18) /* Hello, World! */
12:32:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42412&oldid=42411 * Esowiki201529A * (+16) /* Concatenate string program */
12:35:19 -!- ProofTechnique has joined.
12:36:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42413&oldid=42412 * Esowiki201529A * (+38) /* VandalismScript */
12:37:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42414&oldid=42413 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) /* VandalismScript */
12:39:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42416&oldid=42414 * Esowiki201529A * (+0) /* VandalismScript */
12:39:45 <mroman> I propose an esolang where everything outside /* */ is a comment
12:39:51 <mroman> and everything inside is code.
12:40:00 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
12:40:59 <mroman> #define /* */ #define */ /*
12:46:05 -!- ProofTechnique has joined.
12:48:07 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
12:48:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42417&oldid=42416 * Esowiki201529A * (+0) /* VandalismScript */
12:49:07 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:49:38 <mroman> It would be fun to have regex defines.
12:50:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42418 * Esowiki201529A * (+452) Created page with "== Example == === [[Cat program|Concatenate string program]] === ${[[Cat program|cat]]:} === [[Hello, world!|Hello, World!]] === A "[[Hello, world!|Hello, World!]]" program..."
12:52:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42419&oldid=42418 * Esowiki201529A * (+26)
12:52:35 <izabera> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDEGFFEEEEDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
12:52:37 <izabera> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDEEEFGIIGFFEEEDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
12:52:40 <izabera> AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEFFFI KHGGGHGEDDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
12:52:41 <izabera> AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEFFGHIMTKLZOGFEEDDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
12:52:46 <izabera> AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEFGGHHIKPPKIHGFFEEEDDDDDDDDDCCCCCCCCCCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
12:52:49 <izabera> AAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEFFGHIJKS X KHHGFEEEEEDD^C
12:52:50 <izabera> real: 244m24.955s, user: 237m42.815s, sys: 6m13.283s
12:52:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42420&oldid=42419 * Esowiki201529A * (-1) /* See also */
12:53:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42421&oldid=42420 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) /* See also */
12:54:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42422&oldid=42421 * Esowiki201529A * (+20) /* See also */
12:54:56 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
13:00:05 -!- ProofTechnique has joined.
13:03:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42424&oldid=42422 * Esowiki201529A * (+53) /* See also */
13:03:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42425&oldid=42424 * Esowiki201529A * (+4) /* See also */
13:06:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42426&oldid=37407 * Esowiki201529A * (+59) /* Interpreter */
13:09:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42427&oldid=42425 * Esowiki201529A * (-2) /* See also */
13:17:55 <mroman> Always nice to have example programs without documentation
13:18:25 <izabera> source code == documentation ^^
13:18:40 <mroman> maybe where you live :)
13:19:00 <mroman> here up in the mountains where we eat cheese and chocolate and nothing else we like documentation alot.
13:19:21 <mroman> Reading documentation and eating Fondue at the same time is a very recreational activity.
13:20:02 <izabera> i used to use kvirc as my irc client
13:20:03 <mroman> There are projects who on purpose don't document very much
13:20:18 <mroman> in order for nobody to use it but still be able to claim it as open-source :D
13:20:29 <izabera> there were two variables that apparently had the same value
13:20:34 <mroman> also to make more money off support
13:21:12 <izabera> and the docs just said VAR1: This prints the value of VAR1 VAR2: This prints the value of VAR2
13:21:17 <izabera> they asked "did you read the docs?"
13:21:27 <izabera> i said yes ofc and quoted that
13:21:35 <izabera> then they asked "did you read the code?"
13:21:49 <mroman> RTFC - Read the fucking code.
13:21:57 <mroman> also real time french clock.
13:23:44 <izabera> would an hour or so be an ok time to print that mandelbrot set? <.<
13:24:04 <izabera> i can probably get close to that
13:26:14 <mroman> why is it having 6m of sys time btw?
13:39:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
13:42:53 -!- ais523 has joined.
13:44:04 -!- vodkode__ has joined.
13:53:17 -!- `^_^v has joined.
13:53:51 -!- bb010g has joined.
14:09:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Write error: Broken pipe).
14:09:26 -!- ais523 has joined.
14:13:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:14:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
14:17:49 -!- callforjudgement has joined.
14:18:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
14:19:05 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523.
14:32:37 -!- callforjudgement has joined.
14:33:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services).
14:33:06 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523.
14:33:18 -!- GeekDude has joined.
14:39:45 <mroman> http://thestack.com/cornell-justin-cheng-troll-behavior-130415 whoot
14:48:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
14:48:47 -!- ais523 has joined.
14:53:38 <mroman> ah good old trolley problem
14:53:54 <mroman> I'd still not flick any switches.
14:54:04 <mroman> unless I had a little bit more motivation than just to safe five people.
14:56:18 -!- nszceta has joined.
14:58:40 <ais523> isn't the correct answer to that to try to derail the train by flicking the switch with precise timing? or yell at the groups of people who would be hit to get out of the way?
14:59:05 <fizzie> Derail the train, killing everyone on it.
14:59:42 <fizzie> izabera: One thing I was wondering was whether it'd be faster to blow out the program into an array, in case the substring expansion is slow. Looking up an instruction is something that's done quite often.
14:59:51 <ais523> fizzie: I thought the way it's normally set up, everyone aboard the train is doomed anyway
15:00:01 <ais523> also IIRC train derailments are often survivable?
15:00:08 <ais523> there are also some fun third options which need more space on the railway but would be much more effective
15:00:16 <APic> Both sound true.
15:00:27 <ais523> such as "use something flimsy and mechanic to short the rails together in front of the rain"
15:00:41 <ais523> which will end up indirectly engaging the emergency brakes unless people go to a lot of trouble to override them
15:01:19 <ais523> there's also a mechanical way to engage the brakes by putting some sort of post next to the train so that it hits a brake engagement lever as the train goes past, but I don't know the details
15:07:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: BRAAAAKES).
15:10:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42428&oldid=42406 * Rdococ * (+78) Merged user page with esolang list
15:21:27 <fungot> ais523: we hates them, they need to make fnord the heap that much more left :p
15:22:43 <APic> ais523: Passed.
15:22:57 <FireFly> fungot: less hateful, please?
15:22:57 <fungot> FireFly: ( if you need them at the corner
15:23:29 <ais523> APic: I just made an assertion that Freenode has an IRC bot written in Befunge online right now
15:23:39 <APic> Yah, You won, Man!
15:23:41 <ais523> and pinging fungot was the easiest way to see whether it was online
15:23:41 <fungot> ais523: toddfleming i am not wearing warm clothes therefore the thermostat should be set to....
15:24:54 <FireFly> Seems like an interesting assertion to make
15:25:50 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
15:25:51 -!- vodkode__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:26:32 <ais523> FireFly: someone else was talking about JavaScript's networking abilities
15:26:44 <ais523> tried to pick an example of a language that might be even worse at networking than JavaScript
15:26:50 <ais523> and ended up picking the worst possible esolang to make the point
15:27:36 <APic> ais523: At the very _Least_, it was not Malbolge. B-)
15:27:59 <ais523> yeah, malbolge is bad at networking
15:29:29 -!- variable has joined.
15:30:08 <fizzie> You'd think brainfuck would have been the obvious choice: it's the "standard" esolang, and is also pretty bad at ("innate") networking. The wire-stdin/out-to-netcat kind of things are arguable.
15:30:56 <ais523> brainfuck almost certainly has more attempted OS-communication libraries than any other esolang
15:34:26 <APic> You mean, like, C?
15:34:58 <APic> Everything that does I/O is Standard-Stuff, not C-Stuff…
15:35:22 <ais523> like C except if you restrict it to esolangs
15:35:41 <ais523> actually BF probably is the best answer to the question "what is the C of esolangs?"
15:35:55 <ais523> low-level, imperative, widely used, imitated a huge amount in ways that don't really improve on the original
15:35:58 <APic> But is not it esoteric too in the IOCCC and Places?
15:36:15 <ais523> IOCCC can be thought of as an eso dialect of C, I guess
15:37:41 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
15:38:01 -!- GeekDude has joined.
15:40:03 <FireFly> Has C been imitated that much?
15:40:34 <FireFly> I mean, not in a syntactic sense (to which the answer is obviously "yes")
15:40:49 <ais523> you clearly don't work in the research compiler community ;-)
15:40:56 <ais523> stupid C derivatives are pretty much our stupid BF derivative equivalent
15:42:57 <FreeFull> C spawned a whole family of syntax
15:43:20 <ais523> C's syntax wasn't exactly new at the time, though
15:43:27 <ais523> it's basically BCPL with types and more sensible keywords
15:44:33 <FreeFull> Yeah, C is where all the other languages got it from though
15:47:01 <ais523> btw, what's the best way to teach people programming if they were expert programmers like 30 years ago, have stopped programming since, and now they ask you questions like "is it like Fortran, or like Algol?" and don't seem to understand why you'd use abstraction?
15:48:35 <FireFly> FreeFull: it did, but most of the languages borrowing its syntax are very far from it semantically I think
15:48:36 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
15:48:56 <FireFly> At least among more popular languages
15:50:26 <FreeFull> FireFly: Well, I did say syntax, not semantics ;)
15:54:09 <ais523> with research compilers, people often don't bother to have a syntax at all until later
15:54:13 <ais523> you start off by writing parse trees manually
15:56:40 -!- MDude has joined.
15:58:02 -!- Hijiri has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1).
16:00:13 -!- G33kDude has joined.
16:00:15 -!- G33kDude has quit (Excess Flood).
16:00:35 -!- G33kDude has joined.
16:03:20 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
16:03:20 -!- G33kDude has changed nick to GeekDude.
16:05:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:06:08 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:06:51 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
16:08:27 <izabera> fizzie: i did that already
16:08:45 <izabera> actually it turs out the expansion _was_ slow when the locale was involved
16:09:02 <izabera> with LANG=C it doesn't make any noticeable difference
16:12:06 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined.
16:12:45 -!- Sprocklem_ has left.
16:25:53 -!- b_jonas has joined.
16:36:45 <fizzie> Probably counting UTF-8 characters from the start of the string each time with the locale on, then.
16:42:39 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined.
16:42:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:43:21 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:44:26 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Client Quit).
16:44:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:~ATH]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42429 * Texenox * (+266) Created page with "== Wow. == I am absolutely impressed. Usually, I tend to not be such a frequent editor, but I'm absolutely stunned with how this article has come along. Thank you, Vriskanon. ..."
16:49:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Texenox]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42430 * Texenox * (+238) Created page with "Texenox is just some young bellend who enjoys the concept of coding. He has started the page relating to the fictional programming language [[~ATH]], but had then left it with..."
16:51:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[State]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42431 * Rdococ * (+728) Created page with "{{stub}} My iPad battery is running out, so I am in a rush to get to my PC. Please don't delete this if it is unfinished.<br /> The '''State programming language''' is an esot..."
16:56:13 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined.
16:56:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
16:56:26 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Max SendQ exceeded).
16:56:29 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined.
17:01:54 -!- esowiki has joined.
17:01:58 -!- esowiki has joined.
17:01:59 -!- esowiki has joined.
17:02:43 -!- esowiki has joined.
17:02:44 -!- glogbot has joined.
17:02:47 -!- esowiki has joined.
17:02:48 -!- esowiki has joined.
17:17:27 -!- Hijiri has joined.
17:27:51 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:29:06 -!- heroux has joined.
17:34:03 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
17:38:52 <int-e> http://sprunge.us/hGSc ... bullshit bingo aside, I wonder what they mean by "non-parseable notations"
17:44:06 <olsner> based on some kind of ethereal tokens inaccessible to our plane?
17:46:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[State]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42432&oldid=42431 * Rdococ * (+251) Updated page
17:48:49 -!- Hijiri has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1).
17:54:05 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:54:49 -!- nszceta has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
17:57:58 -!- nszceta has joined.
17:59:06 -!- nszceta has quit (Max SendQ exceeded).
17:59:52 -!- nszceta has joined.
18:03:40 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
18:05:29 -!- bb010g has joined.
18:06:17 -!- Hijiri has joined.
18:07:49 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:08:19 -!- Hijiri has quit (Client Quit).
18:09:08 -!- Hijiri has joined.
18:11:37 -!- Hijiri has quit (Client Quit).
18:12:35 -!- Hijiri has joined.
18:42:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[State]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42433&oldid=42432 * Rdococ * (-16)
18:42:44 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)).
18:47:38 -!- rdococ has joined.
18:47:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42434&oldid=42428 * Rdococ * (-53) New language... although I might have rushed it
18:51:52 <rdococ> so we have Text, Folder, what now? Website?
18:57:37 -!- nycs has joined.
18:57:54 <rdococ> Text, Folder, the next thing would be Picture!
18:59:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
19:18:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Floater]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42435&oldid=39156 * 4D enthusiast * (+8) /* Configuration */ reduced the ambiguity of the definition of angbase
19:23:05 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
19:30:59 -!- Frooxius has joined.
19:37:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
19:38:25 <zzo38> Another kind is one to use RDF graphs as the input format. (A RDF graph is a directed graph where edges are labeled with URIs, and nodes are optionally labeled with URIs; each labeled node has a different label. A node can also be a literal which is a pair consisting of a string and a URI; a literal is not allowed to have any edges leading from it.)
19:38:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:39:48 <izabera> writing programs in it would be easy
19:40:05 <izabera> interpreting the easy subset of the language would be easy
19:40:26 <izabera> but the language would be huge with many equivalent symbols
19:40:54 <izabera> and interpreting/compiling all of it would take a lot of time
19:41:00 <izabera> would this be interesting?
19:42:31 <izabera> for each possible symbol, it's (relatively) easy to understand what it does
19:43:54 <izabera> translate brainfuck like this , 1 . 2 + 3 - 4 [ 5 ] 6 > 7 < 8
19:44:11 <izabera> now any state of the cube has a minimum number of moves required to solve it
19:44:29 <izabera> any state that is solvable in 1 move is mapped to ,
19:44:35 <izabera> any state that is solvable in 2 moves is mapped to .
19:44:49 <izabera> there are 4.3 * 10^19 possible states
19:45:05 <izabera> any state out of that [1-8] range is a comment
19:45:44 <izabera> so to interpret it, you actually have to solve each state in the minimum number of moves
19:46:23 <izabera> writing programs otoh is relatively easy, just identify 8 states and use those
19:47:48 <zzo38> Ah, OK now I can see how you mean.
19:48:40 -!- zadock has joined.
19:48:59 <zzo38> Still if the interpreter proves that you need at least nine moves to solve it, it doesn't have to try to solve it or figure out exactly how much, since it is treated as a comment.
19:49:50 <zzo38> Well, yes, but still it can use such a shortcut
19:52:40 <izabera> i can't think of an efficient way to do it
19:52:48 -!- Hijiri has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
19:53:32 <zzo38> I don't know either; it is just one kind of idea.
19:59:45 <izabera> i guess one could do something like that for any np-complete problem...
20:00:34 <elliott> I think there are languages that are hard to write but easy to interpret, but I don't think I've seen the other way around before
20:01:44 -!- Hijiri has joined.
20:06:12 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:09:28 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
20:25:33 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:46:02 -!- GeekDude has joined.
20:47:08 -!- Froox has joined.
20:50:31 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:52:18 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v.
20:53:29 -!- magician has joined.
20:56:54 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:56:54 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest3780.
21:12:13 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
21:17:52 <orin> Apparently austria is actually spelled with a o
21:18:22 <Phantom_Hoover> <elliott> I think there are languages that are hard to write but easy to interpret, but I don't think I've seen the other way around before
21:21:15 -!- Froo has joined.
21:24:53 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:25:18 -!- Frooxius has joined.
21:26:06 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
21:28:32 <orin> Hm, what about natural language computing. Natural languages are about as easy as possible for humans, but extremely hard for computers to interpret
21:29:23 -!- rdococ has joined.
21:30:08 <fizzie> Yes, maybe the Osmosian Order of Plain English Programmers would disagree.
21:30:43 <fizzie> (Okay, they don't exactly claim it's hard to interpret.)
21:30:54 <fizzie> (I just wanted to bring them up.)
21:32:43 <orin> Wasn't there a project somewhere with an artificial pronouncable language that was basically prolog?
21:34:21 -!- HMC_A_ has joined.
21:34:23 -!- atehwa_ has joined.
21:34:53 <Taneb> orin, lojban, maybe?
21:36:15 -!- HMC_A has quit (Write error: Broken pipe).
21:36:15 -!- atehwa has quit (Write error: Broken pipe).
21:38:11 <orin> yeah, that was it, I read a page somewhere about using it for programming but I can't find it now
21:42:24 -!- Hijiri has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1).
21:48:25 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated).
21:49:21 -!- idris-bot has joined.
21:51:49 -!- Hijiri has joined.
21:51:59 <Jafet> Phantom_Hoover: eodermdrome currently has more interpreters than programs
21:52:16 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
21:53:38 <Taneb> I am fairly sure there exist joke languages which are easy to write in but hard to interpret
21:53:51 <Taneb> Actually, what about Banana Scheme or something
21:54:15 <Jafet> If you consider smtlib language as a programming language then that probably qualifies
21:55:16 <Jafet> In that vein, HTML5 probably qualifies
21:55:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
21:59:49 <rdococ> *not easy to write in either
22:07:11 -!- nszceta has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com).
22:09:03 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:13:47 -!- boilyphone has joined.
22:14:10 <lambdabot> CYUL 132200Z 15015G21KT 30SM FEW110 FEW180 OVC240 21/04 A2986 RMK AC1AC1CI7 AC TR SLP110 DENSITY ALT 800FT
22:14:58 <rdococ> a program can be built to solve a problem. why not just tell the computer the problem?
22:15:17 <Taneb> You seem somewhat mobile
22:16:05 <boilyphone> Yes, on my phone. Waiting for a friend, then eat then Douteux.
22:16:37 <Taneb> Trying to revise Linear Algebra
22:19:23 <rdococ> I wonder if it's possible to create a turing complete programming language with one instruction & one parameter.
22:21:22 <tromp> you can make one with a single parameterless primitve
22:21:35 <Hijiri> do combinator calculi count as programming languages
22:21:40 -!- boilyphone has quit (Quit: MOBILE CHICKEN).
22:21:59 <tromp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic#One-point_basis
22:22:07 <rdococ> if you use it to program, or communicate problems, solutions and instructions to a machine
22:22:18 <tromp> which i'm sure is what Hijiri has in mind
22:22:26 <Hijiri> because there is a turing complete 1-combinator calculus
22:22:51 <rdococ> I don't know what such a thing means
22:23:20 <Hijiri> that's what I was thinking about
22:26:02 -!- Hijiri has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1).
22:26:20 -!- Hijiri_ has joined.
22:28:33 <rdococ> I have a programming language you can use right now...
22:29:01 <rdococ> unlike its unintentional brother Folders
22:30:56 <rdococ> hmm... what is the computational class of Text?
22:33:39 <Taneb> I think I will go to sleep now
22:40:15 <orin> dilapitated? Isn't that "delapidated"? (from lapis, latin for stone, meaning when stones are fallen out of a wall)
22:40:29 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:41:14 <Jafet> It's just a misspelling, don't lose your head over it.
22:41:32 <orin> Apparently I also misspelled it
22:41:51 <orin> it's actually "dilapidated"
22:42:55 <orin> this is what happens when you don't have a phonemic orthography
22:43:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42436&oldid=42427 * Esowiki201529A * (+26) /* Example */
22:52:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42437&oldid=42436 * Esowiki201529A * (+55) /* interpreter */
22:52:40 -!- Hijiri_ has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1).
22:54:43 <FireFly> The one-point basis in combinatory logic hinges on being able to represent the expression as a tree (using parenheses), right?
22:56:04 <FireFly> so it's source representation isn't just a list
22:56:31 <elliott> yes, but with a linear representation you can make do with two
22:56:31 <elliott> http://www.westpoint.edu/eecs/SiteAssets/SitePages/Faculty%20Publication%20Documents/Okasaki/jfp03flat.pdf
23:04:23 <orin> the story is a nice touch
23:07:11 -!- rdococ has joined.
23:24:34 <elliott> FireFly: that just sounds mean out of context :P
23:36:13 -!- HackEgo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:36:23 -!- HackEgo has joined.
23:36:51 <MDude> Makes me want to use a client like Microsoft Comic Chat to take screenshots and pretend they're panels of Jerkcity.
23:37:53 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:38:09 <quintopia> "No backend server available for connection: timed out after 10 seconds or idempotent set to OFF or method not idempotent."
23:45:07 -!- Hijiri has joined.
23:46:33 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said).
23:46:46 -!- llue has joined.
23:46:54 -!- llue has quit (Changing host).
23:46:54 -!- llue has joined.
23:50:59 -!- vodkode__ has joined.
23:53:24 -!- zzo38 has joined.
23:58:34 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).