00:02:50 -!- lambdabot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:08:25 -!- lambdabot has joined. 00:13:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:16:50 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 00:17:04 Is there any reason that ddrescue on a non-damaged HD would be a bad idea? 00:20:24 That sounds rather harmless. 00:20:56 Could be a waste of space, I guess 00:21:16 But I think most of the HDs in question are 80GB or so, the 1TB one is questionably broken 00:21:24 (I guess ddrescue will tell me) 00:21:31 So, planning on buying an 8TB NAS 00:24:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:26:29 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:27:47 -!- variable has joined. 00:28:44 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick. 00:30:20 -!- Naviaux has joined. 00:30:47 Greetings everyone! 00:31:33 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:31:34 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 00:36:34 greetings to you! 00:37:10 How are you?! 00:46:54 Sgeo|web: If there aren't any read errors, ddrescue is basically just dd. 00:48:46 hmm 00:50:53 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:52:22 I was wondering if there is anyone that would like to help with making an esolang called Chronos 00:59:08 -!- rdococ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:03:31 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42556&oldid=42542 * Esowiki201529A * (+9) It's stub 01:05:24 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript/HTML interpreter]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42557&oldid=42538 * Esowiki201529A * (+9) 01:09:08 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42558&oldid=42516 * Esowiki201529A * (+60) /* G */ 01:13:24 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 01:13:44 Can ddrescue be badly screwed up? Other than by forgetting to use a logfile, I mean 01:14:21 Also, webchat sucks, it disconnected and this fact was not obvious until I tried to send a message 01:15:13 Like, am I liable to do the wrong thing and regret ever using ddrescue? And should just send an HD (potentially with personal information) to professional data recovery service? 01:15:20 -!- magician has joined. 01:17:43 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:17:43 -!- magician has changed nick to Guest3780. 01:27:12 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:28:55 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 01:43:03 No one? D: 01:45:47 hi 01:49:29 konbanwa 01:49:50 -!- Naviaux has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:50:21 should I try my hand at translating a manga? 02:04:59 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42559&oldid=42556 * Esowiki201529A * (+51) 02:08:20 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42560&oldid=42559 * Esowiki201529A * (+17) /* Escape sequence */ 02:20:36 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:25:46 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Esowiki201529A * moved [[Gibberish]] to [[Gibberish (programming language)]]: disambiguation? 02:25:46 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Esowiki201529A * moved [[Talk:Gibberish]] to [[Talk:Gibberish (programming language)]]: disambiguation? 02:28:38 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 02:28:55 [wiki] [[Gibberish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42565&oldid=42562 * Esowiki201529A * (-6) Redirected page to [[Gibberish (disambiguation)]] 02:29:39 !bf ++++++++++++[>++++++++<-]> > +++++[>+++++<-]>+ [ [->>+<<]>> [-<+<+>>]<- ] <[<]< [->>[+>]<[<]<] >> [.>] 02:29:41 zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba 02:29:41 zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba 02:29:41 zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba 02:30:00 i wrote it *.* 02:32:30 [wiki] [[Gibberish (disambiguation)]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42566 * Esowiki201529A * (+65) Created page with "* [[Gibberish (programming language)]] * [[Gibberish/JavaScript]]" 02:32:35 !bf <+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 02:32:35 ! 02:32:35 ! 02:32:35 ​! 02:34:38 !bf ++++++++++++[>++++++++++>++<<-]>++>++[<.->-] 02:34:38 zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba 02:34:38 zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba 02:34:38 zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba 02:35:38 :C 02:35:51 [wiki] [[Gibberish (programming language)]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42567&oldid=42561 * Esowiki201529A * (+31) 02:37:06 * izabera is very offended 02:37:26 myndzi: might want to turn that off in here, or at least make it only run once per line :p 02:39:24 btw the ! wasn't meant to convey anything, it's just the first non-whitespace printable character, and i wanted to check if the bf interpreter lets you go left of starting point 02:39:32 \o/ c.c \o/ 02:39:33 | c.c.c | 02:39:33 | c.c.c | 02:39:33 >\ c.c |\ 02:39:33 /`\ c.c |\ 02:39:40 wow um that last line broke a bit 02:39:43 ^celebrate 02:39:43 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 02:39:44 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 02:39:44 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ ¦ c.c.c | 02:39:44 |\ c.c /^\ /| | | /'\ c.c /| | /< |/< c.c >\ 02:39:44 /'\ c.c |\ /| | | /'\ c.c >\ | |\|´¸¨ c.c /| 02:39:46 /´\ (_|¯`\ 02:39:47 (_| |_) |_) 02:39:48 /'\ (_|¯`\ 02:39:49 (_| |_) |_) 02:40:01 is everything running twice or something 02:40:20 what's the point of c.c 02:40:20 c.c.c 02:40:21 c.c 02:40:21 c.c.c 02:40:21 c.c 02:40:33 it's meant to be a multiocular o 02:40:39 o.o 02:40:42 c.c 02:40:45 c.c 02:40:45 c.c.c 02:40:45 c.c 02:40:46 c.c.c 02:40:46 c.c 02:40:49 o.o 02:40:52 -.- 02:40:53 it's... getting kind of messed up by everything running twice though 02:41:21 it sucks on weechat :\ 02:41:45 -!- ascl-bot has joined. 02:41:45 -!- ascl-bot has quit (Client Quit). 02:43:37 http://arin.ga/Z5HUya/raw 02:44:24 !bf +[+] 02:44:25 No output. 02:44:59 !bf +[>+] 02:44:59 No output. 02:46:27 !bf ] 02:47:16 is anyone else disturbed by the small penis in this part of the drawing? /`\ 02:47:29 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42568&oldid=42558 * Esowiki201529A * (+33) /* G */ 02:48:54 would you prefer it be larger? >_> 02:49:06 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42569&oldid=42518 * Esowiki201529A * (+33) /* Gibberish */ 02:50:10 <_< 02:50:44 [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42570&oldid=42560 * Esowiki201529A * (+23) /* See also */ 02:53:06 [wiki] [[EsoInterpreters]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42571&oldid=42121 * Esowiki201529A * (+33) /* Main table */ 02:54:14 [wiki] [[List of quines]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42572&oldid=42076 * Esowiki201529A * (+33) /* Gibberish */ 02:55:05 [wiki] [[User:Marinus/Brainfuck interpreters]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42573&oldid=20310 * Esowiki201529A * (+33) /* Gibberish */ 02:57:24 [wiki] [[Gibberish (disambiguation)]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42574&oldid=42566 * Esowiki201529A * (+41) 02:58:21 [wiki] [[User:Marinus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42575&oldid=38074 * Esowiki201529A * (+33) 02:58:41 -!- bb010g has joined. 02:59:43 [wiki] [[User:Marinus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42576&oldid=42575 * Esowiki201529A * (+33) 03:00:23 [wiki] [[User:Javawizard]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42577&oldid=16780 * Esowiki201529A * (+33) 03:01:25 lolwut 03:01:30 something is very wrong here 03:02:06 why does everything run twice :( 03:02:42 oh, haha 03:02:44 i bet 03:02:48 one is my work client and one is my home client 03:02:49 :o 03:03:01 [wiki] [[User:Quintopia]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42578&oldid=40213 * Esowiki201529A * (+33) /* Interpreters written in Python */ 03:03:15 unloaded here 03:03:19 ... \o/ 03:03:27 well, i imagine the work one is locked up from the bf hax above 03:03:37 :o 03:03:38 i didn't write it defensively :P 03:12:03 ^celebrate 03:12:03 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 03:12:11 rip. 03:20:19 :P 03:20:25 well i could load it up again but then i'd just have to turn it off again 03:20:42 2 clients 1 bnc KeKeKe 03:23:04 every time I try to use Gimp I just wish I was using MS Pailnt 03:24:00 "Pailnt" is an interesting word. 03:24:35 I can barely pronounce it as one syllable 03:26:02 but seriously Gimp has an awful user interface 03:26:49 I'd probably ponounce it like Pail'nt, or pailent with a silent e. 03:27:55 OH, right. I'll just use Wine to run paint.net 03:28:12 What about KPaint or something? 03:28:42 I have paint.net already installed on my other partition, so meh 03:28:49 sure 03:29:17 hmmm... it isn't working 03:29:28 Try mono? 03:30:15 (Assuming that ".net" means that it's a dotnet program.) 03:31:14 it seems like people have been saying good things about "pinta" 03:32:08 hell yes this is exactly what I want 03:32:27 i.e. it is basically the same as MS paint 03:32:46 (the version before Windows 8 ruined everything forever) 03:34:19 "Pinta is ... modeled after Paint.NET", so, yes it seems like exaktly what you want. 03:34:36 windows 7 ruined paint 03:34:38 (and minesweeper) 03:34:41 you can still get paint xp 03:34:51 http://www.mspaintxp.com/ 03:35:44 Windows 7 paint was bad too? I jumped (was forced to jump) from XP to 8 03:36:03 7 ~ 8 as far as paint is concerned, i think 03:41:36 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:09:44 -!- Froo has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 04:18:49 I want to mount, read-only, a raw image file located on the network 04:18:54 How terrible an idea is this? 04:33:07 the terriblosity would depend on what kind of network it is 04:37:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:40:11 * oerjan spends 2 hours writing an unusually long ghc trac post only to have it start breaking down just before he's ready to submit. 04:40:12 ohayoerjan! 04:40:21 helloren 04:41:01 yay it posted 04:41:14 I never trust in-browser text editing 04:41:48 me neither, i _did_ have enough clue to copy it first 04:42:00 I use Google Docs for that 04:42:07 Safer than most forms 04:42:28 with my browser i can launch a terminal with vim by pressing C-e in any editable area 04:42:38 it's dwb 04:42:49 i already have vim open, i just didn't use it to write 04:43:15 trac has the nice feature of automatic preview, as long as it isn't half-dying 04:44:05 also i did this instead of sleeping argh 04:44:28 (figured once i started thinking mathy i wouldn't get any sleep anyway) 04:44:35 *any more sleep 04:46:12 oerjan: it's a good thing that after this is fixed Typeable will be bulletproof 04:46:30 yay! 04:46:41 (is that sarcasm) 04:46:55 MAYBE 04:49:30 i guess this esowiki guy is nothing if not thorough 04:54:05 i think haskell is a pretty cool guy, eyht makes evrything a manod and doesn't afraid of anything. 04:54:50 * oerjan slips oren ZipList 04:55:00 WHERE'S YOUR MONAD NOW 04:55:19 oerjan: diagonalization hth 04:55:47 shachaf: doesn't obey the laws hth 04:55:57 but everyone thinks it does hth 04:56:15 no they don't, it's the goto "this cannot be a monad" example 04:57:03 i think Cont is the goto monad example hth 04:57:21 okay 04:57:36 Actually you can probably make a better goto monad than Cont. 04:58:15 inconzzzzzzievable 04:58:15 You'd want to be able to jump forwards as well as backwards. 04:58:35 am i missing a pun 04:58:48 no, i'm just wondering whether i should go back to bed 04:59:09 @time oerjan 04:59:10 Local time for oerjan is Thu Apr 16 07:00:50 2015 04:59:21 it's time to wake up hth 04:59:40 i did that > 3 hours ago tdnh 05:00:28 but indeed, this would have been the perfect time if i hadn't woken up too early 05:00:57 -> 05:05:36 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:13:54 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:22:26 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:29:21 -!- variable has joined. 05:37:08 well, factorization is np complete... [...] <-- that is neither believed nor proved. 05:38:17 at least not the usual way of thinking of it. 05:39:37 @tell izabera well, factorization is np complete... [...] <-- that is neither believed nor proved. at least not the usual way of defining it. 05:39:37 Consider it noted. 05:49:36 oerjan: sorry i meant np 05:50:22 easy things are also np 05:51:11 sorry i meant it takes ridiculously long on large enough inputs 05:51:20 THAT MAY Be 05:51:24 oops 05:51:26 what the fucking ever 05:51:35 * oerjan hides his secret quantum computer 06:12:06 izabera: It's not believed to be in P 06:12:13 you are confusing "in NP" with "NP-complete" 06:13:44 who cares -.- 06:16:37 I 06:17:28 /ragequit 06:17:29 I have already forgotten, mostly, what P and NP even mean, but NPC means "at least as hard as everything in NP" 06:17:43 npc means non-player character actually 06:17:49 np means no problem 06:17:54 any more questions, nerds 06:18:10 why do you call people nerds? 06:18:44 they're not people, they're just NP-complete, obviously 06:18:48 because he's emulating Piccolo from DBZA? 06:19:12 yes. that is what I do all day, 24/7/365 06:19:17 it's probably only faux-rude, but i don't particularly like it 06:19:22 wtf is the a in dbza 06:19:22 sigh 06:19:30 abridged 06:20:01 dragon ballz abridged, the famous comedy youtube redub of DBZ 06:20:53 dragon ballz just looks like the plural of dragon ball 06:20:59 like, most dragons have 2 dragon ballz 06:21:28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Wc50iEOtc 06:23:06 heh 06:28:43 watched episode 1 06:28:45 it's stupid 06:29:44 ep 1 of what? 06:29:57 (besides, don't judge from just one episode.) 06:30:49 i didn't say i'm not going to watch the rest 06:37:17 eep rainy forecast 06:38:01 @metar cyyz 06:38:01 CYYZ 160600Z 00000KT 15SM SCT240 05/M02 A3040 RMK CI4 SLP298 06:43:18 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Quit: Page closed). 07:00:07 @metar ENVA 07:00:07 ENVA 160650Z 26020KT 9999 -RASN FEW005 SCT009 BKN011 02/01 Q1002 TEMPO 4000 SHRASNGS BKN010CB RMK WIND 670FT 27021KT 07:00:59 what is this 07:01:29 airport weather reports 07:02:58 forecast says it's not going to rain here though, for today 07:03:09 (tomorrow it might) 07:06:38 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 07:11:57 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:39:35 Possibly relevant/interesting paper: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1203.1895v1.pdf 07:40:35 itym http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.1895v1 hth 07:42:18 from which you can learn that there's a new version 07:51:52 Oooh 07:51:58 I didn't know you could do that 07:52:05 I was just given the link direct to the PDF 07:52:27 "always link to the abstract" hth 07:53:14 for one thing, there's links only one way, otherwise you need to know the format 07:53:23 oerjan: they should use a better url scheme hth 07:53:25 *url format 07:54:11 shachaf: true, it's a bit awkward to guess 07:54:32 in the past i deleted the .pdf, and it put it back in 07:54:43 and i gave up on guessing the right url and just pasted the pdf link in 08:04:52 -!- aretecode has quit (Read error: No route to host). 08:07:56 -!- aretecode has joined. 08:15:43 Does anyone remember when I started to learn Haskell? 08:16:34 wild guess: shortly after you came here 08:16:52 2011-07-18 11:26:19( Taneb) Haskell installed 08:17:08 `? haskell 08:17:10 Huh, that feels later than it should be 08:17:17 oh, right 08:18:24 One day earlier 2011-07-17 14:55:47( Taneb) Well, I'm not going to learn Haskell just yet 08:18:36 Hmmmm 08:23:03 Taneb: that was just the day after the hexham revelation. 08:23:11 Hmmm 08:23:17 I came to this channel later than I though 08:23:17 t 08:23:22 so yeah, pretty fast 08:23:45 Jeez, I was already 16 when I got here? 08:24:31 that's about what i thought 08:24:51 i think you _briefly_ visited some time earlier 08:29:22 It feels like this has been part of my life for much longer 08:29:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:38:56 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 08:39:32 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:41:41 [wiki] [[Duck Duck Goose]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42579&oldid=42294 * Vriskanon * (+245) /* Sample program */ Added cat program and multiple sample programs formatting 08:43:58 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:55:15 Taneb: I was 11 08:57:33 hm wikipedia is renaming accounts to get global logins 08:57:41 *wikimedia 08:58:41 mine seems to stay, but i accidentally got to see the talk page message about Oerjan@wiktionary 08:58:49 this is messy... 08:59:12 (not that he would care, hasn't been around since 2007) 08:59:37 i don't _think_ it's me, anyway, i don't recognize those edits. 09:04:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:12:21 Hmm... I can tell I'm still young, because none of the languages I know has become obsolete yet 09:13:19 Whereas my dad knows Perl 3 and Fortran or something 09:13:29 and therefore is old 09:14:19 * oerjan waves from Pascal-land 09:15:51 I think Perl as glue is dying in favor of python as glue though... so it won't be long... 09:17:36 no it's not 09:19:15 oerjan: It's the bizarro-oerjan, your goateed evil counterpart. 09:20:06 `? ørjan 09:20:46 fizzie: you've got it backwards hth also HackEgo is damn slow 09:22:36 That is slow. 09:22:40 I assume it's the VPS provider. 09:22:44 I thought it just wasn't working? 09:22:57 The wiki bridge was working less than an hour ago. 09:23:14 Yes, but ` hasn't been working for much longer than that. 09:23:19 Oh. 09:23:38 Huh. 09:23:55 That seems plausible, given the logs. 09:23:57 huh the wiki is up 09:24:24 I remember it getting stuck once, due to a thing that I fixed. 09:24:39 It was something related to file permissions, some bit had gone missing. 09:24:51 Of course I didn't write down the details, because where's the fun in that? 09:25:11 `help 09:25:20 but it worked a few days ago 09:25:23 `echo hello 09:25:39 * oerjan recalls some time when `help worked but not user commands 09:25:56 `ping 09:26:01 hmm 09:26:07 I should probably go to sleep 09:27:36 Well, it's also being slow-ish over SSH, especially if I try to do anything disk-related. But that's probably not the main problem. 09:28:34 That's interesting. 09:28:53 It's not on the channel, that's what's up. 09:29:11 um according to my tab completion, it is 09:29:22 According to my /n, it's not. 09:29:30 Perhaps your tab completion is based on incoming messages. 09:29:33 what's /n 09:30:04 surely it's based on /quits etc. 09:30:07 hm... 09:30:09 I think it's a nicely-formatted 'WHO', but it could also be based on 'NAMES'. I'm not entirely sure. 09:30:17 -!- oerjan has left. 09:30:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:30:33 ok there it was gone 09:30:49 -!- HackEgo has joined. 09:30:54 And there it is. 09:31:06 so it was some kind of irc network failure, actually 09:31:12 `? ørjan 09:31:13 ​Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers. 09:31:19 yay 09:32:04 (I didn't realize we're so non-'+n' inclusive we allow messages from people not on the channel.) 09:32:36 oh wait 09:32:47 i think it's irssi getting confused, right 09:34:12 right, HackEgo never was here since i joined, so it must have been the wiki announcement that did it 09:34:34 fizzie: i think it's an experiment? 09:35:11 oerjan: Can you tab-complete *this*? 09:35:27 i think this is the first time a problem has appeared with -n 09:35:30 dfgsiudgfsuifgs: yep 09:35:53 or well, that i've noticed anyway 09:36:17 Now you'll presumably have that stuck in your tab-completion list, since it won't get any part/quit. 09:36:49 maybe people have messaged from out of channel left and right, and i never noticed they weren't here. 09:38:42 An evil person could make tab-completion arbitrarily difficult by making conflicting prefixes for every nick at every length. 09:42:10 But the solution is obvious: only allow single letter nicknames. (Good morning!) 09:43:44 -!- mroman has changed nick to fizzia. 09:43:52 hm... 09:44:57 -!- oerjan has left. 09:44:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:46:42 int-e: i made a new trac post in the thread 09:46:56 i assume since i didn't get a Cc: you didn't either 09:47:43 now with an actual proof. 09:47:50 "#esoteric: Total of 104 nicks" that's a bit problematic for single-letter (printable ASCII not-reserved-by-IRC) names. 09:48:36 fiendish 09:49:20 "[0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 104 normal]" I'm not sure that last word is exactly the right one. 09:52:20 I'm a depilator. 09:53:01 all matter of hairy business, including splitting 09:53:29 *manner 09:54:32 In retrospect, I think irssi's tab-complete is based on last-one-who-spoke-first-on-the-list, which would make that less efficient. 09:54:54 indeed 10:00:03 irssi has intelligent tab-completion yes. 10:11:04 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:14:30 fizzie: that can't be, my plan was perfect! 10:17:24 -!- int-e has set topic: Foiled by numbers | Dilapitated depilators | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 10:17:37 int-e: btw if you see any fatal flaw in my proof (including any form of Typeable-capable types that don't fit in either branch of argument) that might mean another exploit that works against spj's fix. 10:18:25 -!- aretecode has joined. 10:19:20 oerjan: Maybe later. I'm not sure what you mean by "kind-ambiguous" right now, which means I don't know why the list you gave is exhaustive. 10:24:41 i mean, basically, any two type constructors with the same TypeRep, which afaik now only happens because of the */Constraint ambiguity in (), (,), ..., -> / => 10:25:48 because Haskell distinguishes them, but core doesn't, and the kind parameters for Typeable are extracted from core. 10:26:36 or well not quite core maybe, but the upshot is this list has no kind parameters that get used for the TypeRep. 10:27:15 -!- boily has joined. 10:27:58 bofternoily 10:34:59 boe matrjan! 11:30:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LIBERATED CHICKEN). 11:58:38 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 12:37:27 -!- hjulle has joined. 12:50:01 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:58:43 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:59:39 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 13:19:58 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeannes). 13:25:58 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:49:41 `oeis 16271255119687320314 13:49:43 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: oeis: not found 13:52:28 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 13:53:26 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Client Quit). 13:57:06 -!- bb010g has joined. 14:00:08 @oeis 16271255119687320314 14:00:09 Sequence not found. 14:00:21 `factor 16271255119687320314 14:00:21 16271255119687320314: 2 19 137 3989 61519 12736309 14:00:31 @oeis 1 2 4 8 15 14:00:33 Tetranacci numbers: a(n) = a(n-1) + a(n-2) + a(n-3) + a(n-4) with a(0)=a(1)=... 14:01:26 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:03:28 int-e: unless I made a mistake, it's the number of sets of squares of a 8x8 chessboard such that each row and each column has some but not all squares in the subset 14:04:05 @google 16271255119687320314 14:04:06 No Result Found. 14:04:14 but someone should check that 14:04:22 I could have miscounted 14:05:31 so relations on {1..8} with full domain and codomain? 14:06:37 int-e: yes 14:06:50 um 14:06:52 I dunno 14:06:57 what does that mean? 14:07:30 what's the domain of a relation in that sense? 14:07:40 domain and codomain are defined by dom(R) = {a | (a,b) in R}; cod(R) = {b | (a,b) in R}. 14:07:50 then no 14:07:55 that only restricts rows 14:08:11 in which case there would be (2**8-2)**8 such relations 14:08:16 but I restrict both rows and columns 14:08:43 What? Surely you mean 255^8, not 254^8. But you're wrong. 14:08:56 I mean 254**8 14:09:05 oh, I see 14:09:09 the codomain is teh columns 14:09:11 wait 14:09:54 in that case I want relations such that the domain and codomain is full, and also the domain and codomain of the negation (complement) of that relation are also full 14:10:14 Ah, I missed that. 14:10:21 sorry, I'm confused 14:10:24 That's... ugly. 14:10:59 that's probably why it's not in oeis 14:14:28 you want chessboards with no monochromatic ranks or files 14:16:21 254^8 14:16:26 wrong window 14:16:59 tromp: yes, black and white chessboards with no monochromatic ranks or files 14:17:10 [ 254^8 14:17:11 b_jonas: 1.73249e19 14:17:58 `` printf '\x03,%dx' {0..33} 14:17:59 ​,0x,1x,2x,3x,4x,5x,6x,7x,8x,9x,10x,11x,12x,13x,14x,15x,16x,17x,18x,19x,20x,21x,22x,23x,24x,25x,26x,27x,28x,29x,30x,31x,32x,33x 14:18:13 `` printf '\x03%dx' {0..33} 14:18:14 ​xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 14:23:36 > let c n 0 = 1; c n k = c (n-1) (k-1); f n = (2^n - 2)^n + sum [(-1)^k * (2^((n-k)*n) * (2^k - 2) + (2^(n-k)-1)^n*2) * c n k | k <- [1..n]] in map f [1..8] 14:23:38 [0,4,174,34204,22874190,55079812684,496433383427646,17190560520625432252] 14:23:52 ouch. 14:24:00 > let c n 0 = 1; c n k = c (n-1) (k-1) * n `div` k; f n = (2^n - 2)^n + sum [(-1)^k * (2^((n-k)*n) * (2^k - 2) + (2^(n-k)-1)^n*2) * c n k | k <- [1..n]] in map f [1..8] 14:24:01 [0,2,102,22874,17633670,46959933962,451575174961302,16271255119687320314] 14:24:34 [ 16271255119687320314=16271255119687320314 14:24:35 b_jonas: 1 14:24:47 hmm, how does that computation work? 14:24:53 I used a more complicated computation 14:25:39 hmm 14:25:52 Inclusion-exclusion principle: Starting from (2^k-2)^n solutions satisfying the column criterion, it computes how many of those have k=1..8 equal rows. 14:25:53 is it some kind of sieve 14:26:11 nice 14:26:19 I wondered if something like that would work 14:26:41 but eventually wrote a computation that's more complicated, though still fast for 8x8 on a computer 14:27:34 so that gives a c n k factor (for selecting the k equal rows), and then (2^k - 2) cases with 2^((n-k)*n) solutions (where the monochromatic rows have mixed colors) and 2 cases with (2^(n-k)-1)^n solutions because the monochromatic rows all have the same color. 14:27:49 but don't you need to multiply by a binomial somewhere? 14:27:58 c n k is a binomial. 14:28:02 oh right, c 14:28:26 @oeis 0 2 102 22874 14:28:26 Sequence not found. 14:30:21 here's my solution: http://rextester.com/QNQCE30194 14:31:36 what is running time as function of boardsize? 14:31:52 tromp: of my solution? exponential 14:32:20 exponential in n or in n^2 for an nxn board? 14:32:21 O((3+epsilon)**width) I think 14:32:32 exponential in n for an nxn board 14:32:59 can't you compute this with the inclusion-exclusion formula? 14:33:10 sure, but this occurred to me first 14:33:15 tromp: scroll back a bit :) 14:33:29 the inclusion-exclusion formula int-e shows is a better way 14:33:58 ah, you're ahead of me, int-e :) 14:34:04 in fact, I think mine could be optimized to a somewhat more complicated polynomial time solution 14:34:18 hmm no 14:34:21 maybe 14:34:27 yeah, it could be 14:34:53 it would have a somewhat higher exponent but whatever 14:34:57 I won't implement that though 14:38:15 at least https://oeis.org/A048291 exists 14:43:02 meanwhile, my 19x19 go computation is still going... 14:44:19 hehe, this is a strange channel, I give a computation and two people try to implement it rightaway 14:44:27 tromp: or are you computing something else? 14:44:51 i'm computing the number of legal 19x19 Go positions, which is somewhat more involved:) 14:44:57 oh 14:45:00 that's more difficult 14:45:20 should get finished this year though 14:47:15 [wiki] [[Lesser known programming languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42580&oldid=7995 * 50.23.113.210 * (+51) 14:48:46 [wiki] [[Lesser known programming languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42581&oldid=42580 * B jonas * (-51) revert spam by User:50.23.113.210 14:50:43 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:57:53 tromp: do you know the answer modulo some primes (2^64-ish, I guess) already? 15:00:03 [wiki] [[Babble]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42582&oldid=42550 * Rottytooth * (+34) clarity 15:00:40 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:00:56 [wiki] [[Babble]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42583&oldid=42582 * Rottytooth * (+16) /* Concept */ 15:01:59 no, it will take another 6 weeks or so to get the first congruence (mod 2^64) 15:02:36 you can see the progress at http://tromp.github.io/go/legal.html 15:08:39 -!- rdococ has joined. 15:08:49 hi 15:12:43 -!- variable has joined. 15:15:28 hi 15:15:42 variable: since I'm so [not 15:15:49 stupid enter key 15:16:09 variable: since I'm so [not] kind, I'll elevate you to a first class object... lol... get it? 15:16:19 no? :c 15:22:16 what? you're computing it modulo something? 15:23:14 b_jonas: modulo several things, to be combined by the chinese remainder theorem to obtain the full answer 15:23:27 right, but how does that help in this case? 15:23:42 b_jonas: it helps keeping the numbers to machine word size 15:23:51 sure, but you're traversing a graph 15:23:57 a complicated graph 15:24:06 isn't it better to do all the computations at once? 15:24:09 I mean, it doesn't have to be radixal 15:24:15 but all the congruences at the same time 15:24:29 so you just have to apply chinese remainder once at the very end, which is very quick 15:24:50 as opposed to computing the result with one modulus first 15:25:16 or do you run out of RAM? 15:26:36 the problem is almost IO bound 15:27:09 > 3^20 -- too low because it doesn't take connectivity into account. 15:27:11 3486784401 15:27:12 hmm, maybe it's just that you don't know any more efficient way to parallize the problem 15:27:39 with filesize proportional to number of state-cnt pairs that can be held in memory 15:28:31 tromp: sure, but if you eg. computed the values modulo some 128 bit number instead of 64 bit number, how much larger would the io work become? twice larger, or just 1.1 larger? 15:28:39 s/1.1/1.1 times/ 15:28:39 tromp: will you do 19×17 too, afterwards? To complete all {1..19}×{1..19} combinations 15:28:55 so with 566 bit counts, you cldn't hold many states in memory, and get files with few states, which makes IO a much bigger problem 15:28:59 > 363324268018 / 3^20 15:29:00 104.200382425079 15:29:32 i will do all 19xn, n up to 20 15:29:59 I see 15:30:03 tromp: do you get separate counts for black to go next and white to go next? 15:30:05 b_jonas: about 1.9 times larger 15:30:27 tromp: I see. in that case parallelizing this way _might_ help, if you read the io sequentially enough 15:30:36 i'm counting positions. there is no notoin of who is to move 15:30:40 I can't imagine how this could work 15:30:51 ok 15:31:15 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:31:59 "Allowing for some redundancy, we need from 10 to 13 servers, each with at least 32 cores, 512GB RAM, and ample disk space (10-15TB), running for about 3-5 months." -- this disk space seems quite tightly calculated. 15:32:31 (going by the 363324268018 number) 15:32:45 each "vector" takes about 4.3TB 15:33:21 > 363324268018 * 8 -- plus some allowance for efficient access? 15:33:23 2906594144144 15:33:54 each modulus needs at least the current and new vector, but preferably also the previous and an older one for error recovery 15:34:41 int-e: you need between 1 and 2 bytes on avg for the state-delta 15:35:16 and the vectors have states duplicated 15:36:14 each state could occur up to 3 times, in different files of a state vector 15:36:42 32 cores, 512GB of ram 15:36:55 but most duplicates are alrd eliminated by the in-memory sorting 15:36:58 compared to this, we work with small data and quick computations 15:37:15 i dont actually need 512GB that was rather conservative 15:37:25 i can manage with 128GB 15:38:00 the main requirement is high disk IO bandwidth 15:38:25 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:38:40 even still, the beefyest machine I use here has 32GB of ram only, and 24 cores, though it does have a RAID with like twenty terabytes of disk space and fast IO bandwidth because we're recording raw image data quickly and compressing it later 15:38:56 ais523: I was thinking about what you said, and you're right 15:39:31 you only need to handle the case with identical reduce actions for any possible lookahead token (the reduce action can be a one symbol reduce), not the case of an identical shift 15:40:21 yep 15:40:54 (also, it's a NUMA machine) 15:41:24 (and with a crazy fast CPU) 15:42:27 off to lunch. bbl 15:47:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:51:05 -!- nszceta has joined. 15:51:52 -!- nszceta has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 15:53:57 -!- nszceta has joined. 15:54:40 oh! 15:55:08 -!- nszceta has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 15:55:48 -!- nszceta has joined. 15:58:39 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:05:27 -!- nszceta has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:12:31 -!- nszceta has joined. 16:12:31 -!- nszceta has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:14:05 -!- MDude has joined. 16:20:24 -!- vodkode has joined. 16:22:31 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Bye). 16:30:14 I wonder 16:30:47 is an OISC with a command to copy the bit at one address to a second, then flip the first, turing complete 16:32:14 @oeis 1 3 9 31 113 16:32:15 G.f.: (1-sqrt(1-4x-4x^2))/(2(1+x)).[0,1,1,3,9,31,113,431,1697,6847,28161,117... 16:32:34 @oeis 1 3 9 31 113 435 16:32:34 Sequence not found. 16:36:21 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:41:03 @oeis 1 2 16:41:05 [] 16:41:21 @oeis 1 1 2 16:41:34 Fibonacci numbers: F(n) = F(n-1) + F(n-2) with F(0) = 0 and F(1) = 1.[0,1,1,... 16:50:16 I didn't even noticed a spambot got hold of my talk page... 16:50:24 -!- rdococ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:51:54 -!- rdococ has joined. 16:57:30 hmm 17:01:33 a finite state automaton could be a described as a finite set of ordered triples p = {(x,y,z)}. 17:02:18 and if they're numbers, then you can make a raster image with it 17:04:17 assuming you have infinite color depth 17:04:31 or atleast unbounded, so 17:04:39 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 17:07:22 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 17:16:01 -!- variable has joined. 17:16:09 -!- Hijiri has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:22:34 -!- Guest3780 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:24:21 -!- Guest3780 has joined. 17:42:07 I'm bored 17:42:26 -!- CADD has joined. 17:43:10 why do programs have to exist 17:44:14 try #philosphy 17:44:43 syntax error: unknown channel 17:44:49 #philosophy 17:45:07 nope must be invited 17:45:40 oh and apparently I'm banned from ##philosophy -.- forgot how notorious I look 17:46:00 I feel so lonely... nearly every channel rejects me... 17:46:20 I'm always the lonely one... the weird one... 17:46:24 why?! 17:48:26 well atleast this channel still likes me 17:53:44 ...I don't like monologues 17:57:28 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:58:50 oerjan: #9858 comment 90 would be more helpful if the required extensions had been listed... I've narrowed it down to KindSignatures + ScopedTypeVariables + TypeFamilies for the first one and PolyKinds + ScopedTypeFamilies for the second one. Interestingly, TypeFamilies seems to be essential for the first one... 18:00:34 oh wait, GADTs works as well. 18:07:17 let me read your sieve formula, I tried to reproduce the sieve but got the wrong result 18:07:22 oh wait 18:07:27 I have to multiply by a power of 2 18:07:53 nope, still wrong 18:08:38 > let c n 0 = 1; c n k = c (n-1) (k-1) * n `div` k; f n = (2^n - 2)^n + sum [(-1)^k * (2^((n-k)*n) * (2^k - 2) + (2^(n-k)-1)^n*2) * c n k | k <- [1..n]] in map f [1..8] 18:08:40 [0,2,102,22874,17633670,46959933962,451575174961302,16271255119687320314] 18:09:16 > let { c n 0 = 1; c n k = c (n-1) (k-1) * n `div` k; } in map (c 8) [0..8] 18:09:17 [1,8,28,56,70,56,28,8,1] 18:10:22 huh 18:10:59 that's different from the formula I tried 18:13:04 ok wait, mine gives the wrong result already for a 2x2 chessboard 18:13:06 let me debug it 18:15:03 oh... wait 18:15:06 mine is completely wrong 18:15:08 let me try again 18:20:28 -!- TESSSSSSSSSSSSSS has joined. 18:20:54 -!- TESSSSSSSSSSSSSS has changed nick to Sprocklem. 18:29:37 first get 1x1 correct (0) 18:30:07 tromp: that one was correct, and 0x0 too 18:30:16 then 1x2 and 2x1 (also 0) 18:32:21 no, the formula I used is just wrong, and I know why 18:32:28 I'll just have to try to write the correct formula now 18:32:33 answer for 2xn is 2^n-2 18:33:48 oerjan: oh, news on #9858, looks like you got what you wanted? 18:40:37 -!- zadock has joined. 18:46:20 -!- zadock has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:47:05 -!- zadock has joined. 18:59:28 -!- bb010g has joined. 19:00:07 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:03:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:07:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:25:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:27:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:28:57 heh, I made another wrong formula 19:29:12 this one might be closer 19:29:24 oh right 19:30:38 [ 3 :'+/,(([!y-])*(]!y"_)*(_1^+)*y^~(y>:+)*+/&(0&=)-~2^y-+)"0/~i.>:y'"0 i.9x 19:30:38 b_jonas: 1 0 2 102 22874 17633670 46959933962 451575174961302 16271255119687320314 19:30:56 yes, that seems right 19:31:02 it's a double summation 19:31:19 it could be turned to a single sum but then there'd be more conditions so this is simpler to write 19:32:16 -!- nszceta has joined. 19:36:45 -!- Hijiri has joined. 19:52:18 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:00:52 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:01:01 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:15:09 -!- Encapsulation has joined. 20:15:37 I'm facing a challenge right now in my program. I need objects running methods and having their attributes change at regular intervals and in reaction to events while simultaneously providing I/O to the user. Which language would be best suited for me? 20:16:18 malbolge 20:17:43 this looks like just what I needed 20:21:11 Encapsulation: maybe #esoteric isn't the best place to ask such a question..... 20:23:28 Abstract State Machine Language? 20:25:19 -!- variable has joined. 20:30:59 #esoteric is for esoteric programming languages 20:31:08 ie, ones you probably don't want to use, lol 20:31:28 what? I just wanted a laugh... lol 20:31:38 I need to stop using lol, lol 20:33:46 just stop then, hth 20:35:20 okay 20:38:31 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:42:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:43:58 -!- Hijiri has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 20:44:07 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:45:16 -!- Froox has joined. 20:47:13 -!- Froo has joined. 20:48:58 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:49:48 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:53:02 [ 3 :'(y^~_2+2^y)--/(!&y*(2*y^~_1+2^y&-)+(2^y*y&-)*_2+2&^)>:i.y'"0 i.9x 20:53:03 b_jonas: 1 0 2 102 22874 17633670 46959933962 451575174961302 16271255119687320314 20:53:16 ^ that one is just a single summation 20:53:33 [ 3 :'+/,(([!y-])*(]!y"_)*(_1^+)*y^~(y>:+)*+/&(0&=)-~2^y-+)"0/~i.>:y'"0 i.9x 20:53:34 b_jonas: 1 0 2 102 22874 17633670 46959933962 451575174961302 16271255119687320314 20:53:53 [ rv0=: 3 :'+/,(([!y-])*(]!y"_)*(_1^+)*y^~(y>:+)*+/&(0&=)-~2^y-+)"0/~i.>:y'"0 i.9x 20:53:53 b_jonas: |ok 20:54:02 [ rv2=: 3 :'+/,(([!y-])*(]!y"_)*(_1^+)*y^~(y>:+)*+/&(0&=)-~2^y-+)"0/~i.>:y'"0 i.9x 20:54:03 b_jonas: |ok 20:54:07 [ rv0-:rv2 20:54:07 b_jonas: 1 20:54:09 [ rv0 20:54:10 b_jonas: 1 0 2 102 22874 17633670 46959933962 451575174961302 16271255119687320314 20:54:12 great 20:54:31 somehow it even came out shorter, though probably the expression for the double sum could be written more concise too 20:55:00 um 20:55:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:55:26 hmm no wait 20:55:30 I'm comparing the wron gthing 20:55:33 the single summation is longer 20:55:46 [ ]rv2=: 3 :'(y^~_2+2^y)--/(!&y*(2*y^~_1+2^y&-)+(2^y*y&-)*_2+2&^)>:i.y'"0 i.9x 20:55:47 b_jonas: 1 0 2 102 22874 17633670 46959933962 451575174961302 16271255119687320314 20:55:52 [ rv2-:rv0 20:55:52 b_jonas: 1 20:56:17 no, the single summation is shorter afterall 20:56:19 ok 20:56:23 now I'm confused 20:56:51 [ rv0=: 3 :'+/,(([!y-])*(]!y"_)*(_1^+)*y^~(y>:+)*+/&(0&=)-~2^y-+)"0/~i.>:y'"0 i.9x 20:56:52 b_jonas: |ok 20:56:57 [ rv0-:rv2 20:56:57 b_jonas: 1 21:00:10 -!- nszceta has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 21:01:25 and with that, good night 21:05:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:10:13 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:13:25 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 21:20:23 I didn't know there was a trout class. 21:20:44 rdococ, you didn't know that trout is directly related to programming? 21:20:49 sorry, just had to 21:21:08 anyway, I have another boring esolang coming, but atleast it'll have a punny name 21:21:28 . o O ( is this an example of trolling fish? ) 21:22:49 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:26:41 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:27:11 isn't it spelled trawling when you do it to fish? 21:27:24 or is that just how I imagine it should be 21:27:28 Hmm... What if there was a language sufficiently flexible that you could write it to look like C, Fortran, Pascal, or Basic? 21:28:08 [wiki] [[State of the Art]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42584 * Rdococ * (+1182) new esolang 21:28:20 e.g. int x; and dim x as integer would both be valid 21:28:40 [wiki] [[State of the Art]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42585&oldid=42584 * Rdococ * (+9) lil' stubby 21:28:53 that'd be cool 21:28:58 olsner: "Trolling can be phonetically confused with trawling, a different method of fishing where a net (trawl) is drawn through the water instead of lines." says Wikipedia 21:29:32 it could be trolling because the fish put on the rage face 21:29:50 poor trout 21:30:13 Pouting trouts are not a pretty sight. 21:30:32 (OДo}<| 21:30:45 [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42586&oldid=42553 * Rdococ * (+23) /* My esoteric programming languages */ 21:31:07 trout: Apologies for the puns, I hope you do not take them seriously. 21:31:16 according to what I hear, these days it's all about the bass 21:31:22 sorry about those puns... 21:31:23 int-e, puns are fine, that is the whole point of having such a username 21:31:30 true 21:31:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:31:40 also, scroll bar wont scroll down 21:31:51 int-e, I do have a question about your name though 21:31:54 e is not an int 21:32:01 are you intenctionally casting it? 21:32:25 int e is a page fault, maybe that's it 21:32:32 int e? is he 2 or 3? 21:32:44 he's more likely to be 3, I think 21:32:48 rdococ: that's a better guess than I've seen in a while. 21:33:04 err. 21:33:08 in C iirc (int) rounds down 21:33:12 okay, 2 then 21:33:15 olsner said that. 21:33:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:33:32 oren, it truncates, yes 21:33:33 don't use C, prefer lua 21:33:56 because low-level stuff derps and costs money and herps. 21:34:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 21:34:10 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:35:12 trout: so it rounds toward zero. I think it's probably a bad idea to rely on that though. 21:36:12 so hi, int-2 21:40:32 I'd like a programming language based on nothing 21:41:14 should I have just created a bf derivative? 21:44:05 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 21:46:52 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:53:54 1a0b045d. 21:54:40 maybe I should just add some hashing requirement 22:00:27 unzip unrar unxz... gunzip 22:00:31 fuck you gunzip 22:00:47 i type ungzip every fucking time and i keep getting command not found 22:02:55 put an alias in your bashrc 22:03:02 yeah i know -.- 22:03:17 use gzip -d 22:03:24 I have alias fuckyou as pkill 22:03:30 lol 22:04:32 i have these 22:04:34 # stfu 22:04:36 silent () { "$@" > /dev/null 2>&1; } 22:04:38 silout () { "$@" > /dev/null; } 22:04:40 silerr () { "$@" 2> /dev/null; } 22:05:59 also alias gdb='gdb -q' 22:06:05 stupid spammy stallman 22:06:06 -!- trout has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 22:06:42 I have a lot of aliases doing that stuff because, after canonical ruined everything with unity, every GUI program outputs: 22:07:08 Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "overlay-scrollbar" 22:07:15 every few seconds 22:07:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:07:40 izabera: install http://hartlich.com/deco/ and just use "deco" for all of them :p 22:07:50 what 22:07:57 ah 22:08:06 (deco{,-archive} are in the AUR) 22:08:26 also protects against tar bombs 22:08:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:10:05 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 22:10:18 well honestly i never had problems with tar bombs....... 22:10:39 probably gnu tar has an option for it <.< 22:11:21 it does, see the overwrite control section in the man page 22:11:42 -!- idris-bot has joined. 22:11:51 well, it's mostly .zip bombs 22:12:06 a lot of the time I'm like "oh okay this is a .zip not a tar so uh 'unzip foo.zip'... fuck, the files went everywhere" 22:12:14 hence deco's consistency is nice :p 22:13:24 i believe files in a zip archive can't have hardcoded paths... 22:13:58 i mean the worst that can happen is that they clobber the current directory 22:14:12 yeah but that's the problem when the current directory is ~ or a downloads dir or something 22:14:16 and of course tar files can do that as well. 22:14:20 it's just a minor annoyance 22:14:57 int-e: yeah but in a tar you can have a file that extracts to /bin/whatever 22:15:41 izabera: and GNU tar at least strips leading slashes by default. 22:15:53 * int-e wonders about ... 22:15:54 .. 22:18:43 generally I don't just untar things 22:18:45 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:18:56 I extract the specific files I want 22:20:55 tar -tzf foo.tar 22:21:17 "By default, GNU tar drops a leading `/' on input or output, and complains about file names containing a `..' component." 22:22:04 with that behaviour it's no worse than zip 22:22:52 -!- dianne has joined. 22:22:57 (well, I suppose you can create interesting symlinks or special files) 22:23:40 Also if you extract a whole archive, use tar -xkzvf foo.tgz 22:24:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:24:19 k makes it not clobber existing files 22:26:12 I learned about tar after seeing that XKCD comic 22:26:17 yeah, well, no. I'm a tar xzf person. 22:27:37 (but I have a scratch directory where I unpack stuff, and usually do a tar tzf first when I'm not dealing with a source code distribution of software I'm used to...) 22:29:39 (I've lost more data to hitting ^J instead of ^K than I have lost to extracting tar files in a different place than I wanted.) 22:29:57 -!- augur has joined. 22:30:26 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 22:31:00 what does ^K do? 22:31:15 cuts the rest of the line 22:31:18 oh 22:31:20 I know ^J is the same as enter... 22:31:27 alternative explanation: d$ 22:31:30 er 22:31:31 that's just D 22:31:34 thanks XD 22:31:40 no no not XD it's D 22:31:45 <_< 22:31:49 haha 22:32:49 anyway I don't understand how you can lose data to hitting enter instead of cutting the line? 22:32:55 -!- Froox has joined. 22:33:51 don't take it too seriously... 22:33:57 by executing a half-typed command instead of deleting it. as a silly example, consider rm -rf ./ [err, no, I don't want to actually delete anything], followed by ^A (beginning of line), ^J. 22:34:30 ah 22:36:27 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:37:24 (Perhaps I should use ^U instead of ^A^K. But U is also next to J.) 22:37:41 What about just down? 22:37:44 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:37:59 perhaps consider using vi mode <.< 22:38:30 not really. 22:38:48 aUHHH 22:38:53 nonononononononon 22:39:19 I use vim but emacs keybindings in everything else 22:39:22 does that make me weird 22:39:24 oren: down doesn't delete anything for me (bash / readline) 22:39:31 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 22:39:35 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:39:58 elliott: no more weird than any other hacker I've ever met 22:40:07 -!- Froox has joined. 22:40:18 Hm? oh. yeah for some reason I usually start every command by hitting up a fe tmes 22:40:23 and also sometimes I use emacs but rarely these days 22:40:32 but when I do use emacs I often edit ~/.emacs with vim 22:40:43 I use midnight commander's internal editor 22:40:44 there are so many ways of doing stuff that nobody does everything the same way anyway 22:41:25 which makes even that nano people go "uh. what's that?" 22:41:39 I use vi, too, for quick and simple edits. I switch to emacs when it involves moving stuff around (cut & paste)... 22:42:15 nano gives me the vi effect (HOW DO I QUIT?) 22:42:38 real programmers use butterflies 22:42:43 Err, I use vim, I should say. Cursor keys... 22:43:55 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:44:26 I get terrified when I do, like, "sudo -e" on a random system and nano pops up 22:44:41 please. what condemned me to this fate. will I succeed in making the simple edit I'm going for here 22:45:04 nano has internal help tho 22:45:21 (Actually quitting nano is not so hard anymore, but I still struggle with saving files. What's wrong with the "Save" verb? "WriteOut" makes no sense. Wordstar has died in the mid 1990s!) 22:45:24 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:45:33 as in, the commands are at the bottom of the screen 22:46:01 ^X Exit 22:46:05 (needless to say the shortcuts are different from the wordstar ones as well...) 22:46:09 oren: I know! 22:47:08 ^S is XOFF 22:47:30 "[ XOFF ignored, mumble mumble ]" ... cute. 22:48:39 oren: it's hard to read when you're panicking though 22:49:13 wellyeah 22:49:39 I wish vi had like three or four lines of help at the bottom 22:51:09 that would waste more than 10% of a 25 line terminal's screen estate... 22:51:47 it should enable it if it detcts you press escape like 5 times 22:52:22 * int-e wonders whether joe still exists 22:53:05 (I don't seem to have it installed anywhere) 22:54:20 joe seems to exist, as in it prompts me to apt-get it 22:55:52 vim has internal help too >.> 22:57:10 -!- vodkode has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:57:39 izabera: but it's hard to find when some other program (like crontab -e) launched it for you to edit a file. 22:58:07 ??? :h backspace 22:59:25 izabera: where? http://snag.gy/CUxag.jpg 22:59:58 I don't see a list of commands or a thing saying "insert mode" or anything! 23:00:20 how can you code with that 23:00:31 with what? 23:00:46 transparency at 50% 23:01:24 i type ungzip every fucking time and i keep getting command not found ← don't forget bunzip2 23:01:39 yeah that's another fucker -.- 23:01:42 -!- Hijiri has joined. 23:01:55 right. without transparency ;) http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/vi.png 23:02:17 :h topic-you-want-help-about 23:02:21 . o O ( Same as gzip, I use bzip2 -d ) 23:02:57 izabera: You know about vi already. We're discussing a first user experience here. Or so I thought. 23:03:04 okok... 23:03:09 :h 42 23:03:11 What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything? *42* 23:03:14 Douglas Adams, the only person who knew what this question really was about is 23:03:16 now dead, unfortunately. So now you might wonder what the meaning of death 23:03:18 is... 23:04:04 anyway, mcedit has a list of commands at bottom, a status line at top with the name of the file. http://snag.gy/fBnvC.jpg nano has similar. 23:04:04 Death is when you stop worrying about taxes. 23:04:38 Also you can click on the commands. 23:04:38 * int-e can't see anything in oren's screenshots. 23:04:56 (same issue as izabera mentioned) 23:05:40 http://snag.gy/u2q1D.jpg 23:05:57 oren: when you start vim, you should get a startup message that tells you about :help 23:06:08 unless you explicitly disable it 23:06:44 "type :help or for on-line help" 23:07:03 FireFly: that works (for me) if you start 'vi', but not when you use 'vi file', which is what tools like crontab -e will do[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D. 23:07:14 (oops, slow terminal) 23:07:14 vim fake help file ... great. just great. 23:07:24 fake? 23:07:31 vim fake help file? 23:07:51 vim :help ~ shell man 23:07:58 VIM - fake help file for vim-tiny The Vim online help is not installed on this Debian GNU/Linux system. 23:08:05 Oh 23:08:07 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:08:12 Well, what can I say.. blame Debian :P 23:08:13 crap vim 23:08:17 install a real one 23:08:25 anyway I set EDITOR to nano 23:09:21 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:09:44 you could use the STANDARD EDITOR 23:09:47 what does :version say in vim-tiny? 23:09:50 ed man! 23:09:56 * izabera knows ed \o/ 23:10:02 * FireFly should learn ed 23:10:09 i can teach you u_u 23:10:32 I know vim well enough, so the fact that ed ~ ex should help.. 23:10:47 ooh, nasty thought: set $EDITOR to /bin/rm ... 23:10:53 izabera: have you ever used teco? 23:10:58 not yet D: 23:11:00 it was nicer than ed when I tried it I think 23:11:09 i tried sam 23:11:11 ed is good. I can use ed well. but vi REALLY needs a help line at least telling me what mode i'm in. ed doesn'tneed it becuase you can see the commnads. 23:11:17 acme is cooler than sam :p 23:11:17 i hate its ui 23:11:23 i hate _that_ ui 23:11:26 whatever program uses it 23:11:33 Yay, GNU ed has a -v 23:11:40 sam is the one that's ed + viewer windows, basically 23:11:56 acme is the weird futuristic one 23:12:17 s/futuristic/retarded/ 23:12:36 I like it. it's minimal and flexible 23:12:42 oren: in vim, :set nocompatible and you get a mode thingy in the bottom left 23:12:46 -- INSERT -- and such 23:13:11 ("nocompatible" meaning "drop strict vi emulation; I want vim powers") 23:13:44 I see... so now the arrow keys work 23:14:28 i mapped the arrows to resize the split windows <.< 23:14:41 what 23:14:53 how do you move around the file then? 23:14:57 hjkl 23:14:58 ...hjkl? 23:15:08 in normal mode, that is 23:15:10 what 23:15:13 I use hjkl(yubn) in roguelikes but arrow keys in vim. 23:15:34 I use hjklyubn in nethack because it's too messy to remap 23:15:39 sometimes I try yubn in vim and am surprised to find they don't work 23:15:40 it's kinda.. weird. with dvorak though 23:15:45 why doesn't backspace work 23:16:00 it does if you set it to 23:16:02 Because of stupid defaults 23:16:02 oren: set bs=eol,indent,start 23:16:17 vim comes with some sample vimrc you can copy that's better than nothing 23:16:22 it's probably in /usr/share somewhere 23:16:26 I hope neovim adopts nicer defaults 23:16:49 like, nocompatible and bs=eol,indent,start should definitely be default in 2015.. 23:16:58 also nnoremap Y y$ 23:17:18 and syntax highlight 23:17:18 Yeah, that too, although I think that's less uniform than nocompatible and bs 23:18:01 The only downside I can think of for mapping Y to y$ is that you forget about the original Y when doing vimgolf.. 23:18:08 haha 23:18:44 nnoremap n nzz <- also this and a couple more... 23:18:53 augh I think I prefer ed 23:19:04 ed doesn't have modes 23:19:10 You could use ex for a slightly more user-friendly ed 23:19:12 ed does 23:19:20 it has normal and insert mode 23:19:30 (well it does, but they are like heredocs) 23:21:07 Hm, I guess ed is pretty straightforward after all 23:21:19 Hmm... maybe I can write my own ed with syntax highlighiting 23:21:47 Hmm 23:21:58 bloated <.< 23:22:35 i wrote a readline wrapper to add history to ed 23:22:48 so that the arrow keys are a little more useful 23:23:36 I was thinking "hey, ed is light enough that you could implement it in an esolang".. then I remembered :s 23:23:38 I've never written an editor before, but maybe I'll call it OED 23:23:54 you remembered...? 23:24:02 ":s", as in substitute 23:24:19 it's s in ed D: 23:24:25 I guess 23:24:33 My mind is vim-y, sorry 23:25:05 implement dc 23:25:06 well you can do ed -p: 23:25:19 then you get a prompt of : 23:25:19 With an esolang implementation of regex matching, I guess the regex engine would be bigger than the rest of the editor.. 23:25:45 actually a basic regex engine isn't that hard... 23:25:46 vim regexes are p. fancy 23:25:54 they support intersections and all sorts of things 23:26:31 izabera: yes, that is true.. 23:28:18 shachaf: you mean using /\= ? 23:28:27 What's /\= ? 23:28:30 I think I mean \& 23:28:32 Er, that's the wrong one 23:28:43 I see 23:29:18 I was thinking of \@= which acts a bit like (?=) in PCRE 23:29:58 Apparently \& is a \@= with implicit parens around everything to the left of it 23:30:11 Is that all it is? 23:30:17 Well, maybe \@= isn't the same as (?=) 23:30:36 "Note that using "\&" works the same as using "\@=": "foo\&.." is the same as "\(foo\)\@=..". But using "\&" is easier, you don't need the braces." 23:31:01 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to `test. 23:31:33 -!- augur_ has joined. 23:31:43 \@= tries to match the preceding atom zero-width, as far as I know that's the same as Perl's (?=...) (and the help seems to say so, too) 23:31:52 -!- Hijiri has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:32:58 If it does actual regular language intersection, then there's a difference. 23:33:26 sorry guys i found this in ltrace's output regcomp(0x7ffeda758840, 0x740470, 1, 0) = 0 23:33:36 how do i get the regex? 23:33:41 i grepped for 'reg' 23:34:05 i found that and regexec(0x7ffeda758840, 0x7403f0, 3, 0x741680) = 1 23:34:09 and regfree(0x7ffeda758840, 0x7fb569fddc08, 0x741600, 0x740ec0) = 0 23:35:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:35:22 ok np i just thought that some of you could know it <.< 23:35:25 sorry 23:37:05 -!- Hijiri has joined. 23:37:14 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:39:29 -!- augur has joined. 23:46:15 -!- `test has changed nick to GeekDude. 23:47:42 izabera: I think you can teach strace that the first two parameters are pointers? 23:47:45 oh 23:47:46 I don't know about that 23:47:49 ltrace 23:47:50 strace knows types and follows pointers, at least 23:47:59 you could just use gdb and breakpoint on regex stuff 23:48:48 izabera: http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man5/ltrace.conf.5.html 23:48:53 make one of these for the functions in question 23:48:57 I guess 23:50:29 i seriously hate debugging -_- 23:59:44 How efficiently can two regular expressions be compared for equivalence?