00:06:07 <olsner> is there teaching in research?
00:06:37 <boily> hellolsner. perhaps.
00:07:29 <olsner> in other news, I'm somewhat happy to see more haskell luminaries in here
00:08:28 <boily> fungot: what is edwardk's albedo?
00:08:29 <fungot> boily: oops no i'm wrong. gah i don't have a problem with loose adaptations, if they're pretty enough.
00:08:47 <olsner> fungot: what is fungot's then?
00:08:48 <fungot> olsner: my thought at the time
00:08:55 <shachaf> oerjan: just think of what you're missing out on in #-lens hth
00:09:23 <olsner> fungot: my thought almost exactly
00:09:23 <fungot> olsner: srfi 44 has been done. in fact you could do it
00:09:34 <edwardk> i'm pretty pale, so i'd assume my albedo would be quite high
00:09:39 <boily> shachaf: there's an #esoteric-lens?
00:10:04 <olsner> boily: it may be called otherwise, but I think there is
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00:39:13 <shachaf> boily: this is ridiculous hth
00:44:27 <oerjan> i'm sure Taneb's TC proof would belong there.
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02:57:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Paul2520 * New user account
03:13:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Underload]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42678&oldid=41993 * Esowiki201529A * (+31) /* Numbers */
03:14:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Underload]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42679&oldid=42678 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) /* Numbers */
03:14:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Underload/Numbers]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42680 * Esowiki201529A * (+2518) Created page with " 0 !() 1 (empty)! 2 :* 3 ::** 4 :*:* 5 ::*:** 6 ::**:* 7 :::**:** 8 :*:*:* 9 ::**::** 10 ::*:**:* 11 :::*:**:** 12 ::**:*:* 13 :::**:*:** 14 :::**:**:* 15 ::*:*..."
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03:49:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish (programming language)]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42683&oldid=42681 * Esowiki201529A * (-2) /* Interpreter */
03:50:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish (programming language)]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42684&oldid=42683 * Esowiki201529A * (-2) /* See also */
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04:11:18 <Decim> >7854256753 * 79997
04:11:55 <Decim> > 7854256753 * 79997
04:18:44 <Decim> Are you trying to sell me drugs FreeFull
04:20:14 <Decim> You better not, I've got my eye's on you. »_»
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04:37:45 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mspalist: not found
04:37:53 <HackEgo> ` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ ! \ ? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ ؟ \ ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ \ \ \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addwep \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ as86 \ aseen \ benvenuto \ bf \ bienvenido \ botsnack \ bseen \ buttsnack \ calc \ CaT \ catcat \ cats \ cc \ cdecl \ c++decl \ chroot \ coins \ CoInS \ complain \ complain
04:38:22 <Sgeo_> I refuse to believe that there is nothing in ~/bin that comes later alphabetically than c
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07:53:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Goldfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42685&oldid=40128 * Esowiki201529A * (+0) /* Commands */
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08:17:54 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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08:19:00 <Taneb> Wow I am half of those names
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08:30:04 <Taneb> Last night I may have ordered a new PSU for my desktop
08:30:11 <Taneb> I also may have ordered it to come gift-wrapped
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08:49:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42687 * Esowiki201529A * (+67) Created page with " <User> ${echo:Hello, World!} <Calculate> Hello, World!"
08:50:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42688&oldid=42687 * Esowiki201529A * (+1)
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08:53:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42689&oldid=42688 * Esowiki201529A * (+50)
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08:55:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42690&oldid=42689 * Esowiki201529A * (+45)
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08:59:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42695&oldid=42694 * Esowiki201529A * (-13)
09:03:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42696&oldid=42695 * Esowiki201529A * (+115)
09:06:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42697&oldid=42696 * Esowiki201529A * (+155)
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09:07:20 <b_jonas> how much coffee do you drink, fungot?
09:07:20 <fungot> b_jonas: what good is a kaiser roll?! what good is a kaiser roll?! what good is a kaiser roll without a little easier. these use support files. is this my stop?!
09:08:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42698&oldid=42697 * Esowiki201529A * (+29)
09:11:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42700&oldid=42698 * Esowiki201529A * (+94)
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09:12:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42701&oldid=42700 * Esowiki201529A * (+10)
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09:13:50 <mroman> fungot: Yes, you should leave the bus now.
09:13:51 <fungot> mroman: the same forcer had in mind :) ttyl i'm going to study medicine, starting in a language than to campaign for a change that would make it easier for people to edit stuff
09:16:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42702&oldid=42701 * Esowiki201529A * (+73)
09:18:24 <b_jonas> fungot is studying medicine. that scares me
09:18:25 <fungot> b_jonas: if itself requires only one jump. jumping back to _before_ where the interrupt _and_ exception systems would abort to in case of fire, and nothing more than a tenth of the mailing list. either i have a *copy* of... or xp if they want
09:22:08 <fizzie> fungot: Are you sure an interrupt handler is enough to deal with a *fire*?
09:22:08 <fungot> fizzie: you're entitled to your opinion. there are seven bits of a pointer to the memory pages the memory is shared, and the
09:22:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42703&oldid=42702 * Esowiki201529A * (+137)
09:23:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42704&oldid=42703 * Esowiki201529A * (+14)
09:23:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42705&oldid=42704 * Esowiki201529A * (+1)
09:23:57 <mroman> fungot: Am I entitled to an opinion?
09:23:58 <fungot> mroman: but that doesn't mean i wouldn't understand it?
09:24:15 <mroman> fungot: No, you can still understand my opinion.
09:24:15 <fungot> mroman: body thetans detected? fnord/ tips/ shared/ fnord
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09:27:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42706&oldid=42705 * Esowiki201529A * (+29)
09:31:31 <quintopia> when did fungy become a scientologist?
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10:00:56 <fizzie> There was a Scientology bus in Mountain View.
10:00:58 <fizzie> I tried to take a photo, but only caught the rear end of it.
10:01:58 <fizzie> So it's just an "OLOGY" truck now.
10:10:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Esolang account]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42709 * Esowiki201529A * (+33) Redirected page to [[User:Esowiki201529A]]
10:11:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Esolang account]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42710&oldid=42709 * Esowiki201529A * (+5) Redirected page to [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]]
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10:54:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish (programming language)]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42711&oldid=42563 * Vriskanon * (+214) /* J command with no command set */ new section
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11:03:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[4]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42712&oldid=42668 * Vriskanon * (+80) added python interpreter (badly optimized)
11:04:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[AFTL]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42713&oldid=42676 * Vriskanon * (-1773) /* Interpreters */ Moved interpreter to github
11:04:44 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin
11:05:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[AFTL]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42714&oldid=42713 * Vriskanon * (+6) /* Interpreters */ Renamed Interpreters to 'External resources'
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11:07:19 <HackEgo> ELF...Ht$..>............8.......HHu<H.8........................fy \ ...............H \ HuB \ H)H
11:07:27 <HackEgo> y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y
11:07:43 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ yes "$@" #ë
11:07:44 <HackEgo> no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \ no \
11:08:06 <HackEgo> y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y
11:08:16 <HackEgo> z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z \ z
11:08:35 <oerjan> these seem a little redundant
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11:10:08 <int-e> I don't recall the last time I even used 'yes'...
11:10:43 <oerjan> it's supposedly good if you have some command that asks a lot of stupid yes/no questions?
11:11:06 <int-e> yes 'eggs on the wall. throw one more egg,' | cat -n
11:11:12 <int-e> `` yes 'eggs on the wall. throw one more egg,' | cat -n
11:11:13 <HackEgo> 1eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 2eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 3eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 4eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 5eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 6eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 7eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 8eggs on the
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11:11:51 <oerjan> `` yes 'eggs on the wall. throw one more egg,' | nl
11:11:52 <HackEgo> 1eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 2eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 3eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 4eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 5eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 6eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 7eggs on the wall. throw one more egg, \ 8eggs on the
11:13:25 <boily> holy fungot there are yesses everywhere...
11:13:25 <fungot> boily: i was just talking to fnord himself talk about esoteric
11:13:27 <int-e> doboily dyen (too lazy for gucharmap)
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11:18:52 <oerjan> `` (echo '#!/bin/bash'; echo 'print_args_or_input "$@" | tr a-z A-Z | sed '"'"'s/$/ CHICKEN/'"'") >bin/poulet
11:19:35 <boily> oh. oooooh. OOOOOOOH! :D
11:20:16 <oerjan> `poulet ooooooooooooooh
11:20:49 <boily> speaking of chicken, the first thing I'll be doing at work is to rename the method I wrote yesterday.
11:22:24 <boily> nothing shameful, only something like 'private Mesh computeSideChicken(List<Vector> startLine, List<Vector> endLine)'.
11:23:12 <myname> the famous side chicken
11:23:26 <oren> I usually name things like computeOrenIsAwesome
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11:25:34 <oerjan> `` run ls wisdom/*list
11:25:34 <HackEgo> bash: run: command not found
11:25:47 <HackEgo> wisdom/bdsmreclist \ wisdom/danddreclist \ wisdom/list \ wisdom/olist \ wisdom/slist
11:26:09 <HackEgo> Update notification for the webcomic Homestuck.
11:26:40 <oerjan> hm Sgeo_ wanted a general mpsa one?
11:27:14 <oren> Also I use label names like hell: heaven: rome:
11:27:46 <oren> rome: is a good label name for a place where all control flows converge
11:27:58 <oren> all roads goto rome;
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11:32:29 <oerjan> fungot: you don't _need_ a kaiser roll with coffee, you know.
11:32:29 <fungot> oerjan: ' ( 1))) this is a barbarian buyer
11:32:48 <oerjan> i think fungot disagrees
11:32:48 <fungot> oerjan: consider that ( name. args)
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11:33:44 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
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11:43:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Oerjan * moved [[User:$M@]] to [[User:SMA]] over redirect: User pages cannot be renamed, they have other data connected
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11:45:40 <Sgeo_> oerjan, I forgot which one was HS
11:47:34 <FireFly> http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/48931/make-the-largest-infinity-that-you-can aaah
11:48:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[User talk:Esolang account]]": Redirect created by someone other than the user themselves
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12:05:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42716&oldid=42616 * Oerjan * (+397) /* Disruptive edits */ Don't rename user pages either
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12:48:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Alphabetti spaghetti]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42717 * Mazeman * (+1441) Created page with "Alphabetti spaghetti is an esoteric programming language invented in 2015 by an anonymous user. Programs in alphabetti spaghetti consist of a string of alphabetic characters (..."
12:49:29 <oerjan> noodle incident on wiki
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12:59:18 <elliott> oerjan: fwiw I suspect the lack of reply to my previous messages was down to them being a non-native speaker
13:00:08 <elliott> I like The title of this article is incorrect because of technical limitations. The correct title is talk page.
13:00:46 <elliott> oerjan: also are we sure esowikiblahblah isn't esolang account?
13:01:14 <oerjan> well no, but if so e should do the redirect from that account.
13:01:26 <oerjan> so far, it hasn't done anything.
13:01:48 <elliott> right I just tend to avoid being pedantic about things like that when it seems highly likely
13:01:53 <elliott> but I guess in this case it's hard to tell
13:02:06 <elliott> for instance what about when someone forgets their password
13:02:20 <oerjan> the account must exist, since it has a contributions link
13:02:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42718&oldid=42645 * Mazeman * (+27) /* A */
13:02:44 * oerjan just tested that a random name doesn't.
13:03:24 <elliott> if only I still had DB access I'd just compare the emails
13:03:36 <elliott> fizzie: don't you think I deserve DB access?!?!?!
13:03:48 <elliott> it's like, uh. whatever wikimedia calls that permission level.
13:04:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Alphabetti spaghetti]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42719&oldid=42717 * Mazeman * (+181)
13:04:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Alphabetti spaghetti]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42720&oldid=42719 * Mazeman * (-1) /* Syntax */
13:04:51 <oerjan> isn't there some way to find out when a user registered
13:05:21 -!- _AndoDaan_ has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.).
13:05:27 <oerjan> it seems not to count on the activity page
13:05:46 -!- _AndoDaan_ has joined.
13:07:18 <oerjan> ah the user list can be sorted by creation
13:07:28 <elliott> the log probably got cleared at some point
13:08:15 <oerjan> esowiki* joined on january 9
13:09:18 <oerjan> 7 september 2011 for the other
13:11:15 <oerjan> i cannot seem to convince it to list around that date
13:12:48 * oerjan skips spam 500 accounts at a time
13:13:09 <oerjan> holy shit february 2012
13:14:30 <fizzie> There is no user_email set for either account hth
13:15:16 * oerjan notes spammers grabbing a lot of 2-letter account
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13:18:05 <oerjan> the account was registered at about the time the spam started picking up severely
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13:20:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[User:WLaquitaCuevasa]]": Spam: content was: "PHP is usually a really popular Web programming language. It really is approximated that it's got now about 5 million developers across the world. Possessing PHP help php on google app engine can mean a lot of possibilities for PHP devel..."
13:20:38 * oerjan deletes 3 year old spam
13:21:37 -!- _AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
13:22:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:WLaquitaCuevasa]] with an expiry time of indefinite (autoblock disabled): Spamming links to external sites
13:23:16 <oerjan> hm SMA was also around that time
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13:33:08 <oerjan> :t let f = \(p :: Proxy Proxy) -> typeRep p in f
13:33:09 <lambdabot> Typeable Proxy => Proxy Proxy -> TypeRep
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14:19:43 <Warrigal> :t let x :: forall a. a -> Bool; x = x in x x
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16:28:46 <lambdabot> *** "hello" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
16:28:46 <lambdabot> n 1: an expression of greeting; "every morning they exchanged
16:28:46 <lambdabot> polite hellos" [syn: {hello}, {hullo}, {hi}, {howdy}, {how-
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16:59:12 <lambdabot> Sorry, look up one word at a time please.
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17:16:28 <lambdabot> *** "a" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
17:16:28 <lambdabot> n 1: a metric unit of length equal to one ten billionth of a
17:16:28 <lambdabot> meter (or 0.0001 micron); used to specify wavelengths of
17:16:28 <lambdabot> electromagnetic radiation [syn: {angstrom}, {angstrom
17:17:43 <lambdabot> *** "a" gcide "The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48"
17:17:43 <lambdabot> Gastropoda \Gas*trop"o*da\, n. pl., [NL., fr. Gr. ?, ?, stomach
17:17:43 <lambdabot> One of the classes of Mollusca, of great extent. It includes
17:17:45 <lambdabot> most of the marine spiral shells, and the land and
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17:46:45 <ais523> so, I came to the conclusion that compilers aren't as good at generating asm as people think they are
17:47:24 <shachaf> How good do people think they are?
17:47:39 <ais523> here's a fun one I came across today: http://sprunge.us/JESG
17:47:47 <ais523> try that with gcc -O2, then try with -O3 for a comparison
17:47:58 <shachaf> Did you see http://cr.yp.to/talks/2015.04.16/slides-djb-20150416-a4.pdf the other day?
17:48:04 <ais523> on my laptop (gcc 4.9.1), the -O3 solution is hilariously bad
17:51:21 <quintopia> is that something requires lex or yacc or whatever
17:52:03 <int-e> quintopia: nope, it looks self-contained at a glance
17:52:06 <ais523> quintopia: I've been working on a yacc impl
17:52:52 <ais523> this is the -O3 implementation: http://sprunge.us/XGef
17:53:10 <ais523> I'm not even convinced it beats -O0
17:53:34 <ais523> basically gcc sees that I'm trying to load 128 contiguous bits from memory, thinks "ooh, I'll load them into a 128-bit register!"
17:53:47 <int-e> tough one. *counts instructions* 12 instead of 2?
17:53:49 <ais523> then can't figure out what to do with them after that and has to put them /back/ into memory to be able to put them into the return value registers
17:54:25 <int-e> I suppose it beats the -O0 one, but it's really quite awful :)
17:54:38 <ais523> and now, because it's spilling 128 bits onto the stack
17:54:44 <ais523> it goes and adds a stack canary to the function
17:55:18 <ais523> and decides to spill the 128-bit register into a different memory location so that it isn't clobbered by the stack canary
17:55:22 <ais523> which makes even less sense
17:55:51 <int-e> ais523: An alternative theory: There might be a temporary on the stack in either case (there certainly is one in the -O0 version), but only the -O2 version manages to eliminate it, because it doesn't "optimize" the memory transfer.
17:56:42 <ais523> I think the problem is that gcc is starting off with temporaries and then trying to find places to put them
17:56:49 <int-e> In any case it's a nice example.
17:57:12 <ais523> clang gets it right at -O3, which is what I'd expect for an llvm-based compiler
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17:57:20 <ais523> I have an even nicer example somewhere
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17:58:03 <int-e> the -O0 -fomit-frame-pointer version looks pretty straightforward: copy struct to temporary on stack, then load the temporary into registers for returning it.
17:58:36 <ais523> here: http://sprunge.us/BVKG
17:58:43 <ais523> the source is a little complex
17:58:46 <ais523> but the output is just inexplicable
17:59:11 <ais523> I think that was -Os, from memory
18:00:06 <ais523> clang gets that one right too
18:03:49 <ais523> bleh, neither gcc nor clang have figured out how to optimize out yyvalid in ayacc's output
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18:13:45 <int-e> DJB touches a crucial point... fully exploiting modern hardware requires specific algorithms (and the designer will work in terms of keeping various parts (say, integer and floating point units) busy, caches populated, etc...); doing that directly in assembly languyage is easier than fighting an optimizing compiler.
18:14:24 <shachaf> Touches? Isn't that his main point?
18:14:52 <int-e> But I don't think that optimizing compilers are dying.
18:14:54 <shachaf> Well, that and that the specific algorithms will take a larger and larger percentage of CPU time.
18:16:29 <shachaf> I think it's a bit silly to say that CPUs keep getting faster, so we don't need to worry about optimizing compilers at all.
18:16:53 <shachaf> A lot of the things that make CPUs faster in hardware are the sorts of things that an optimizing compiler does in software
18:16:54 <int-e> Yes, you'll optimize the hell out of the hotspots, but you still want the remaining code to be fast. Or prototypes of new algorithms...
18:19:13 -!- ais523 has quit.
18:22:28 <int-e> (Perhaps I have written too many combinatorial search programs, where each program has a hot spot, but it looks different every for each program. Which means writing it in assembler is not going to worth my time, but I appreciate every speedup that I can get "for free" by using an optimizing compiler.)
18:24:26 <tromp> int-e: did you see our primes program in Haskell?
18:26:34 <int-e> at least I don't think so
18:26:42 <tromp> > let f='.';o c(x:y)=x:c y;z c(x:y)=f:c y;p n='p':ap fix p(o.n)in f:f:p z
18:26:44 <lambdabot> "..pp.p.p...p.p...p.p...p.....p.p.....p...p.p...p.....p.....p.p.....p...p.p....
18:26:58 <tromp> i added it to the AIT git repo
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18:27:48 <tromp> one day i'd like to see a bit- optimizing haskell-to-blc compiler that reproduces the blc program from Haskell
18:29:07 <tromp> although for some program the typing requirement is going to get in the way:(
18:29:44 <tromp> may need to use a haskell variant with optional typing
18:29:56 <tswett> Hey, I don't suppose I could get clog to log this IRC channel I just created?
18:30:23 <tswett> Who would I even talk to about that?
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18:57:35 <elliott> tswett: you'd want to use glogbot instead
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19:06:09 <Taneb> tswett, glogbot is Gregor's logging bot
19:06:15 <Taneb> the logs are at codu.org/logs
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19:15:42 <tswett> Yes, those logs do look snazzy.
19:17:47 <tswett> Gregor: hey, how would you feel about logging #lepwick?
19:18:18 <int-e> izabera: https://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html#num_scheme
19:19:26 <tswett_> Am I allowed to send messages to #esoteric without being in it?
19:19:59 <tswett_> I intend to use this ability for the sole purpose of confusing everyone and causing distress and despair.
19:20:17 <int-e> tswett_: how nasty.
19:20:42 <int-e> (funny, irssi autocompletes that nick regardless of it not being present)
19:21:14 <tswett_> I wondered for a moment how come your message wasn't showing up on my screen.
19:21:27 <tswett_> The answer is, of course, somewhat obvious.
19:21:33 <int-e> tswett_: this is hurting you more than me
19:21:54 <tswett_> Who says it's hurting anyone?
19:26:01 <tswett_> Let me tell you what I intend to do with my amazing new powers of mischief.
19:35:55 <elliott> tswett: just /invite glogbot there
19:36:27 <elliott> no. I made it up to sabotage you
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21:14:59 <izabera> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-5.1.0/jit/intro/tutorial05.html
21:16:14 <Taneb> I need to do things in programming languages that aren't Haskell or esoteric (or both) at some point
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21:26:07 <int-e> tromp: I've done something horrible to compile a non-trivial part of Haskell to BLC :) http://sprunge.us/jead and an example: http://sprunge.us/KWRb
21:26:35 <int-e> (non-optimizing, proof of concept quality at best)
21:29:50 <tromp> wow, that looks awesome. much shorter than i expected!
21:30:55 <Taneb> How hard would that be to adapt into a Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download thingy?
21:31:03 <int-e> My motivation was to leverage ghc's desugaring for function definitions by pattern matching.
21:32:37 <int-e> (which will not work nicely yet because of the missing case in mkCase')
21:33:57 <int-e> Taneb: from the looks of it it's just a matter of pretty-printing.
21:34:16 <Taneb> int-e, I believe the languages only differ in syntax and IO convention
21:34:38 <tromp> in your Sample, how do the various constructors map to blc?
21:34:40 <int-e> the code knows nothing about the IO convention.
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21:35:31 <int-e> tromp: church-encoding. data X = A x y | B has A x y = \a b -> a x y; B = \a b -> b
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21:36:13 <tromp> i see, so Digit will in fact map to the right booleans
21:36:20 <int-e> so data Bool = True | False does the right thing, but List suffers from lack of Nil.
21:40:00 <tromp> right; that's gonna be a challenge to fit in
21:40:35 <tromp> i guess you want syntactive support for lists as well
21:41:02 <int-e> Is there a nicer way to encode let a = a'; b = b' in e than doing (\x. x x) (\x. (\a b p. p a' b') (x x (\a b. a)) (x x (\a b. b)) (\a b. e)?
21:42:33 <tromp> where a' and b' both refer to a and b?
21:43:26 <tromp> not that i know of
21:43:27 <int-e> hmm, that's missing a )
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21:44:50 <tromp> i guess you'd have to peruse some functional compiler construction texts to discover
21:45:48 <int-e> It's not too bad, ghc also does the SCC decomposition for me.
21:46:52 <int-e> So as awful as the code I wrote is (really, I want to rewrite it from scratch), it looks like a plugin is a *really* quick way to get to the interesting bits of the translation.
21:47:11 <int-e> strongly connected component (in the dependency graph induced by let bindings)
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21:48:35 <oerjan> answer to what, or did i miss your question
21:49:03 <tromp> yes, plugin seems to be the way to go to avoid a huge codebase, and to get the full benefits of an evolving ghc
21:51:13 <ais523> oerjan: what "SCC" expands to
21:52:04 <oerjan> strongly connected component hth
21:52:37 <coppro> supreme court of canada hth
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21:54:34 <ais523> hmm, I was thinking about canadian politics recently
21:54:40 <ais523> during a conversation about the royal family
21:54:45 <ais523> I haven't followed it in ages
21:54:55 <ais523> anything particularly stupid happen recently? or has it been calm?
21:54:58 <Sgeo_> Do I have connection issues?
21:55:17 <ais523> Sgeo_: yes, but nowhere near as bad as mine
21:55:48 <Sgeo_> ais523, someone tried renaming a userpage
21:55:58 <ais523> I noticed, but I think oerjan fixed it
21:56:17 <Sgeo_> I think it counts as a particularly stupid thing though
21:56:20 <ais523> I think that's the user who keeps on coming up with creative new ways to screw up the wiki
21:57:49 <olsner> oh, if a ghc plugin is as easy as that looks, I might actually get going on jonguilexiphonaugh some day
21:58:35 <coppro> ais523: elections in two provinces
21:58:39 <coppro> PEI isn't making much news
21:58:49 <ais523> we have general elections coming up in the UK
21:58:51 <coppro> but the PCs are probably going to lose in Alberta, which is a big deal
21:59:07 <coppro> they're polling in third place, which is insane.
21:59:09 <coppro> They're behind the NDP
21:59:18 <ais523> what's the likely result? coalition?
21:59:27 <coppro> given that Alberta is usually considered the most conservative province, this is insane.
21:59:31 <coppro> Wildrose minority I think
21:59:50 <ais523> we're kind-of coalition-crazy in the UK because there's an election coming up and the polls say that no party's likely to get a majority, again
22:00:02 <ais523> but not just that, most of the plausible coalitions also are unlikely to get majorities
22:00:25 <ais523> and I'm stuck trying to figure out where to vote to get the best possible result for me
22:00:38 <coppro> coalition's unlikely. The governing party lies ideologically very firmly between the other two. Neither opposition party will likely want to coalition with them because they're politically toxic, and they likely won't coalition with each other
22:00:42 <coppro> far more likely is a Wildrose minority
22:01:23 <ais523> that makes sense, although you need at least some concessions in a minority government
22:01:29 <ais523> to prevent no confidence votes knocking you out
22:01:45 <ais523> the current coalition wanted to push no-confidence up to 66% but that didn't go through
22:02:13 <coppro> that would have been insanely stupid
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22:03:13 <coppro> the best poll analysis out there predicts the governing party reduced to 10/87 seats
22:03:17 <callforjudgement> also the Queen has final say over who the Prime Minister is (the check on this is that her choice can be immediately no-confidenced out), and unlike most of the royal powers, has actually used it on occasion
22:03:36 <coppro> callforjudgement: as late as the 60s, it was expected to be used
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22:03:50 <coppro> I don't expect they'll survive
22:03:57 <coppro> more likely they'll prop up a Wildrose or NDP government
22:04:22 <ais523> ideally would be if policies were decided on a case by case basis, rather than party lines
22:04:22 <coppro> probably wildrose because Canadians, especially Albertans, get itchy about the governing party not having the lead in seats
22:04:34 <ais523> but that doesn't really work for the budget
22:04:52 <coppro> ais523: I think it was the Cons in Britain that didn't elect their own party leader when in government in the 60s and actually expected the monarch to make the choice
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22:06:16 <coppro> < coppro> ais523: I think it was the Cons in Britain that didn't elect their own party leader when in government in the 60s and actually expected the monarch to make the choice
22:06:43 <ais523> considering how party leadership debates in the UK often go, I think that was a sensible decision
22:08:29 <Phantom_Hoover> the snp seems to be able to find good ones for whatever reason
22:08:55 <FreeFull> Well I don't think we can vote for the SNP to rule over England
22:09:06 <ais523> not really, some of the SNP people are reasonably awful too
22:09:23 <ais523> FreeFull: that's what a Labour vote may work out as, there's huge debate about whether Labour + SNP will happen
22:09:46 <Phantom_Hoover> obviously, but both salmond and sturgeon are very good at what they do
22:09:47 <ais523> it's one of the most plausible combinations for which the numbers have a chance of working out, even though Labour would probably be fools to accept it
22:10:22 <Phantom_Hoover> the scenario i keep hearing is labour/snp confidence vote, then labour majority government
22:10:41 <Phantom_Hoover> neither party wants a coalition, especially not after the last one
22:11:17 <coppro> it could be labour minority propped up by SNP possibly
22:11:27 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: you mean labour uses the SNP to confidence out whoever else tries to form a government?
22:11:29 <Taneb> It's gonna be interesting, no matter what, I think
22:11:56 <ais523> hmm, is there a good site to get latest predictions from?
22:12:06 <coppro> for canada it's threehundredeight.com
22:12:16 <coppro> you want a site that analyzes polls because a lot can go wrong
22:12:31 <ais523> yes, and different sites can come up with very different results
22:12:42 <ais523> sometimes it's just best to check bookie's odds because they have a financial incentive to be right
22:13:41 <Phantom_Hoover> i've heard the caveat a few times that bookies have an incentive to predict the perception of the outcome more than the outcome itself
22:13:41 <ais523> I get the feeling that the liberals don't want to be in a coalition this time around, but will probably do it anyway if they have to
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22:14:06 <izabera> <o> \o/ <o> \o/ <o> \o/ <o> \o/ <o> \o/ <o> \o/ <o> \o/ <o> \o/ stretching
22:14:16 <Phantom_Hoover> a liberal/tory coalition is not really feasible from any of the polls i've seen
22:14:31 <fizzie> I could give you pretty accurate predictions for the Finnish parliamentary election 2015.
22:14:34 <fizzie> (But only because they already counted the votes and published the results last weekend.)
22:14:57 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: the DUP will make up some of that, I'm pretty sure they'd have no objection to being part of that coaltion
22:15:02 <ais523> but they'll still be short even adter that
22:16:27 <Phantom_Hoover> is that during the AV referendum people argued FPTP is good because it guarantees a strong majority government
22:16:50 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: and they said that despite having a coalition government from an FPTP vote
22:17:21 <ais523> the problem is, that none of the major parties are really electable atm, and none of the minor parties are either
22:17:52 <ais523> I predict more success for minor parties than before, maybe the greens will get two seats this time for instance
22:18:07 <Phantom_Hoover> i love how small ukip's actual gains are looking to be
22:19:35 <ais523> they are going to gain, though, unfortunately
22:20:18 <Taneb> I think their gain will be quite spread out
22:20:25 <ais523> in a way you sort-of want them to be a big enough part of the government to become permanently unelectable
22:20:33 <ais523> but I'm not sure we'd survive the intervening years
22:20:51 <Taneb> ais523, if UKIP get into government I am activating my increasingly terrible back up plan
22:21:39 <ais523> Taneb: hmm, do I want to know what this is/
22:21:53 <ais523> anyway, I'm still undecided on how to vote
22:21:57 <Phantom_Hoover> i imagine that after 5 years of political irrelevance the wave will break and their vote will collapse
22:21:59 <Taneb> ais523, use the fact that I am dual national to go live in Australia
22:22:05 <ais523> both in terms of "who do I want to run the country" and "what vote maximizes the chance of this"
22:23:00 <ais523> they got a few council seats, and that was it I think?
22:23:26 <ais523> meanwhile, UKIP did hugely well at the European elections, but that's probably going to be their last major success
22:24:06 <ais523> actually I'd sort-of like to see a conservative+labour coalition, but the chances of that happening are basically 0
22:24:11 <ais523> even though they'd have easily enough seats
22:24:15 <ais523> they hate each other too much
22:24:15 <Taneb> It amuses me that a lot of the UKIPish parties throughout Europe refuse to work with each other in Europarl
22:24:27 <ais523> Taneb: yep, UKIP refusing to work with the Front National, for instance
22:24:39 <ais523> they basically all don't want to be associated with each other, because they're trying to look respectable
22:24:48 <ais523> and consider each other to be disrespectable
22:24:53 <Taneb> iirc that led to the left block getting power
22:25:24 <ais523> that makes perfect sense, actually
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22:27:38 <Phantom_Hoover> i got poll cards for both leamington and edinburgh north, i think i'll probably vote in leamington since it's a tory marginal and edinburgh north's polling a 14-point snp lead
22:27:58 <Phantom_Hoover> plus i also get to avoid the awkward topic of the snp with my dad when i next see him
22:28:22 <Taneb> I have poll cards for York Outer and Hexham, and by broadly similar reasoning I'll only be voting in the former
22:28:25 <ais523> I thought you had to say which place you were voting in in advance?
22:28:28 <ais523> to stop you voting in both?
22:28:43 <Taneb> ais523, university students have weird rules
22:28:48 <Taneb> And can actually vote in both
22:29:11 <ais523> one person, one vote, surely?
22:29:20 <Phantom_Hoover> i looked it up the other day, i was under the impression that-- yeah
22:29:27 <Taneb> Unless you're a university student living away from home
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22:29:52 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/register-to-vote/students
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22:30:05 <Phantom_Hoover> "It is a criminal offence to vote twice in a UK general election."
22:31:00 <Taneb> That is different to what I recall
22:31:05 <Phantom_Hoover> i had a friend tell me the same thing so this is obviously a common urban legend
22:31:11 <ais523> it says you can vote in both local elections
22:31:22 <ais523> but only in one general election constituency
22:31:27 <ais523> which would allow you to use both poll cards
22:32:38 <Phantom_Hoover> i applied for a postal vote in edinburgh, maybe that means i have to vote there
22:33:10 <Phantom_Hoover> "Once you've used your postal vote you can't change your mind and vote at a polling station."
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22:33:23 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: I believe that's "used" rather than "applied for", though
22:33:40 <ais523> I know that a while ago, we had to hand-deliver a postal vote to a polling station, because it hadn't been posted in time
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22:33:53 <ais523> which is another weird variant on that
22:37:14 <Taneb> Well, this'll be the first general election I've voted n
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22:45:39 <Taneb> I am not very good at writing a CV
22:46:27 <fizzie> Perhaps you should write a version control system instead.
22:46:59 <boily> Taneb: Tanelle. is it written with LaTeX?
22:47:12 <Taneb> boily, the LaTeX is the easier part
22:47:18 <Taneb> And I am still not very good at it
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22:49:31 <ais523> Taneb: have you seen the eurocard thing?
22:49:42 <ais523> it's a european standard for CVs, the same way that PAX is a POSIX standard for tarballs
22:49:52 <ais523> I've been considering using it but nobody's asked me for a CV yet
22:50:08 <boily> could be worse. I'm not even European!
22:50:15 <Taneb> ais523, do you have a link?
22:50:48 <ais523> apparently I misremembered the name
22:51:22 <ais523> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europass
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23:03:38 <Taneb> Well, goodnight! :)
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23:25:13 <quintopia> you always disappear before responding to me
23:26:26 <quintopia> what would be a good project to refresh my c skills
23:27:32 <quintopia> those usually dont require much dynamic memory allocationx
23:28:12 <boily> hmm... mmmh... what would make an interesting small C project?
23:28:13 <paul2520> write a brainfuck interpreter that dynamically assigns the tape as it's needed
23:28:22 <boily> fungot: do you have inspirational ideas?
23:28:22 <fungot> boily: but hey... whatever floats your boat") in my old days. fnord
23:28:29 <boily> fungot: go boat yourself.
23:28:29 <fungot> boily: the optimizing run.c was not ready for prime time :) :) :) :) :)
23:28:41 <boily> quintopia: what about an IRC bot?
23:28:48 <fungot> boily: but of course. i know what to do with antpony.
23:28:57 <boily> quintopia: and call it antpony.
23:29:16 <boily> ¿porqué no los dos?
23:29:23 <boily> an IRC/gopher server!
23:29:41 <boily> (I highly doubt the usefulness of the thing, but we're in #esöteric.)
23:30:00 <pikhq> The great thing about an HTTP server is, simple ones are in fact quite easy.
23:31:04 <boily> indeed. I managed to get one running on an Arduino without too much hassle.
23:31:16 <boily> serving .png was harder than the HTTP part!
23:32:23 <pikhq> Doing HTTP *well* is tricky, but you can get it functional with much, much less.
23:32:28 <pikhq> Even if you're doing HTTP/1.1.
23:33:16 <pikhq> Admittedly an HTTP/1.1 server that does Connection: close for everything kinda sucks, but it's valid.
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23:33:40 <boily> quintopia: good question.
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23:36:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Matrix]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42721&oldid=42151 * Paul2520 * (-1) /* Language Overview */ fixed typo
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23:54:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Element]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42722&oldid=42669 * Phi * (+493) added more examples