< 1431129740 3602 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1431129929 497252 :ZombieAlive!~N3cr0naV@unaffiliated/zombiealive JOIN :#esoteric < 1431130231 232017 :augur_!~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net NICK :augur < 1431130813 392307 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-36-67.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1431130851 274346 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-36-67.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1431130851 421314 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1431132959 180186 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I wonder what all these are: http://sprunge.us/Ghhc < 1431133005 968701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe "why" is more appropriate -- "what" is easier to answer: DNS queries, with the destination address referring to a computer that's currently offline. < 1431133066 40696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the domains (or at least wudi128.com, wudi999.com and wdcp3.com) are registered to a "Wang KangJun" at "QiongShanQuJiuZhouZhen, HaiKouShi, HuNanSheng", China. < 1431133158 545508 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1431133254 48663 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haikou city hunan province < 1431133287 364121 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some Googling located vague references to a paper called "DNS for Massive-Scale Command and Control", but nothing very clear. < 1431133514 956975 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :qiongshan is a district of haikou < 1431134075 143487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a pun < 1431134201 763839 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what a pun < 1431134992 415731 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway what about the source ip's? Maybe they're from a botnet? < 1431135059 188789 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The source addresses are all unique. < 1431135114 331004 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I logged 1943 of these things over 5 minutes. < 1431135123 356364 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From http://sprunge.us/YcfN < 1431135219 134899 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1431135227 27732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just puzzled as to why they are addressed to this destination, given that the computer it's pointing up hasn't been online for quite a while, and last I did my random "wonder what the traffic weather looks like" peek, nothing like this was going on. < 1431135239 167196 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The website itself presents a username field and a captcha, along with a link to download a client program < 1431135245 763235 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that sounds botnetty enough. < 1431135297 892279 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the given links pointed to identical websites, in fact < 1431135311 182596 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-36-67.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1431135348 906392 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-36-67.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1431135349 53040 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1431135402 766962 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For completeness, here's also counts of the suffixes I saw: http://sprunge.us/JcDf < 1431135614 165178 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The javascript on the page, after login success, redirects the user to < 1431135618 692333 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tb.53kf.com/webCompany.php?arg=10095449&style=1 < 1431135771 112743 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a chat room in chinese? must be a command and control room? < 1431136032 23202 :ZombieAlive!~N3cr0naV@unaffiliated/zombiealive QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1431136041 137492 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well lets see if I can make an account < 1431136067 401346 :ZombieAlive!~N3cr0naV@unaffiliated/zombiealive JOIN :#esoteric < 1431136228 688868 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you doing this from a VM? be careful man. < 1431136331 690277 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm seems the chat room is the customer support, not the service itself < 1431136443 653955 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now lesse what's in this RAR? < 1431136477 172446 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "client Program") < 1431136507 507960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :R.I.P. oren's computer < 1431136508 325396 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's an actual program I'll run in on a AWS windows instance < 1431136599 431999 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :WDGameSetup.msi < 1431136611 631514 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 MB < 1431136617 40602 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm < 1431136623 350131 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. The copy I got was over 20 MB. < 1431136650 79564 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok firefox is lying to me, ls says 23 MB < 1431136687 301724 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave it to a random upload-files-and-get-virus-scan-reports-from-N-AV-systems web service, but it wasn't really flagged as known malware. Although one (out of 57) said it matches some test that sounded like a generic keylogger heuristic. < 1431136707 273347 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite possible that the software is not related to the DNS traffic at all, of course. < 1431136717 722616 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1431136730 325355 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :signing into AWS so I can test thsi < 1431137291 727625 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, the rate they're hitting me has dropped to maybe one query every 5 seconds. < 1431137649 497428 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long does windows have to take "initializing..." blah < 1431138181 534276 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now I guess I'll go to the site, download the program and try to install it < 1431138388 241206 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"content from thsi site is being blocked by internet explorer" < 1431138391 651973 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1431138447 683227 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add exception < 1431138645 42848 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://postimg.org/image/rbl9i9k79/ < 1431138757 150261 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the download link doesn't seem to work well < 1431139115 474103 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cloudflare error < 1431139414 324242 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I got that now too. < 1431139737 221584 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://postimg.org/image/i9lbg3lst/ < 1431140794 22001 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I invented such URIs as and and and and and so on. < 1431141132 502194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1431141190 263766 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I intalled the msi sucessfully < 1431141216 850071 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is some sort of dedicated browser, which goes directly to... < 1431141235 140593 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the very same website < 1431141250 354055 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that? Why it does that? < 1431141314 422870 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1431141316 966753 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideA < 1431141328 989569 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't know, then you must learn. < 1431143724 284926 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1431143805 90958 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1431145456 364336 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with zzo38 < 1431145463 637634 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEER PRESSURRRRRRE < 1431146116 522682 :f|`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1431146122 487386 :f|`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1431149856 196076 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one do you like to disagree? < 1431151669 741466 :zadock!~zadock@81.180.210.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431151938 706085 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431152246 115450 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1431153437 327883 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1431154682 637984 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1431154799 34842 :^v!~^v@c-68-36-225-16.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1431154851 648870 :Tritonio!~tr@2a04:1980:3100:1aac:92e2:baff:fe42:f24c JOIN :#esoteric < 1431155456 296483 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431157413 544683 :zadock!~zadock@81.180.210.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1431157627 245277 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1431158370 519370 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431159758 93545 :impomatic_!~digital_w@31.185.153.201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pressed the button https://www.reddit.com/r/thebutton/ < 1431160337 972696 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1431160458 518079 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1431161064 323000 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1431163072 424684 :fowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-tdvkztvltgoyieta QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1431163223 691039 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1431163232 451919 :Vorpal_!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1431163861 376406 :notfowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-fbykupusuhfiisee JOIN :#esoteric < 1431163864 22529 :f|`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1431164801 754747 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1431164822 421319 :f|`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1431165998 269968 :impomatic_!~digital_w@31.185.153.201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any way to view deleted wikipedia pages. There's some deleted programming stuff I want to recover and put back online (not on Wikipedia). < 1431166386 330238 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@199-241-202-205.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1431167339 998571 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1431167349 838459 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :heartbeat detectors that work over 9m < 1431167351 45455 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1431167526 595538 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 year old kids injecting anabolica < 1431167529 358867 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also pretty neat < 1431167675 449503 :S1!~S1@p4FF923D0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1431168818 207628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic_: contact an admin < 1431168841 351194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be a page for requesting it, I forget < 1431170046 489448 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1431170229 689408 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker NICK :SopaXorzTaker < 1431170374 400837 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( \foo : String => interpolate "Hello, ${foo}!" < 1431170374 667811 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :\13foo => 09prim__concat 04"Hello, " (09prim__concat 13foo 04"!") : 12String -> 12String < 1431171111 20230 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1431171307 542633 :notfowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-fbykupusuhfiisee QUIT :Excess Flood < 1431171368 864615 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431171382 728376 :notfowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-qnhusupaoexfxdro JOIN :#esoteric < 1431171937 102368 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1431172204 732340 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431172526 787913 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431174099 604240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: FWIW, over the night the DNS traffic suffix has changed to "jijizy.com", which seems to be registered by the same guy, but contains something that looks like a list of pirated movies in Chinese. < 1431174630 201470 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/fGDE <- top 5 suffixes for each block, with the full log divided into 20 blocks. < 1431174822 268816 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1431175315 354448 :impomatic_!~digital_w@31.185.153.201 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eBay must know something I don't. They've just increased my selling allowance to 13000000.00! < 1431175421 776926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an odd sum. (At least if you count millions.) < 1431176491 546463 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1431176579 307488 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1431176860 689466 :nszceta!~nszceta@5ED062E5.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1431176987 629874 :teakey!~teakey@23.27.206.118 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1431177727 716616 :teakey!~teakey@50.23.131.206-static.reverse.softlayer.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1431178873 565131 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how safe simple crypto things are < 1431178874 364532 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1431178874 891808 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1431178908 660987 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :while data: key = sha1(password); encrypt block with key; key = sha1(key); < 1431178956 122986 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :where encrypt is just XOR < 1431178959 490546 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1431179086 562871 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just hope there aren't many fixpoints in sha1 < 1431179088 332521 :teakey!~teakey@50.23.131.206-static.reverse.softlayer.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1431179095 391755 :S1!~S1@p4FF923D0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1431179145 939558 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07SNUSP14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42814&oldid=42807 5* 03IanO 5* (+61) 10/* Square root */ radical, dude! < 1431179226 583360 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably weak against known plaintext < 1431179243 170023 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which allows you to extract sha1(password) which you probably can brute-force somehow < 1431179307 121585 :nszceta!~nszceta@5ED062E5.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1431179790 764402 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Re known plaintext, it also has the problem that guessing any plaintext block lets you decrypt everything that comes after it. < 1431180123 869859 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the "normal" way to construct a stream cipher out of a hash is to use H(key || counter) -- with 'counter' starting from a never-reused-with-same-key IV -- to generate the keystream. It has the extra benefit that you can parallelize easily. < 1431180202 157995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "normal" is the right word, since I don't think that sort of thing is really used. Possibly because all the analysis for hash functions has been done with collision resistance in mind, and perhaps also "normal" block ciphers I guess tend to be faster. < 1431180352 491306 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quick search found at least one published-in-an-IEEE-magazine-so-must-be-trustworthy paper about something like that: http://dx.doi.org/10.1109/ICCIAS.2006.295277 < 1431180458 109566 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To be honest, I'm not terribly impressed by that paper.) < 1431180533 104056 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1431180717 893623 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love this sentence. "Firstly the algorithm was introduced detailedly." < 1431181359 91336 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-ello. what dows it mean? < 1431181393 311350 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. It's from the abstract of the paper fizzie linked to. < 1431181420 188830 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably it means that they introduce their algorithm in detail in said paper. < 1431181692 188745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The implementation of our algorithm is described detailedly in Section 2." < 1431181700 436095 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From the introduction of the paper.) < 1431181714 979449 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have quite the same effect without the "firstly". < 1431181732 941455 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION detailedly disappear to make some coffee. “My brain hurts.” < 1431181746 336085 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1431181802 508638 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also not entirely sure this part has the right word choice: "-- the change would be diffused to the digest (keystream block) evenly by the core hash function, which means however small the change is, the keystream blocks will be totally different and irrelevant." < 1431181874 483710 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07SNUSP14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42815&oldid=42814 5* 03IanO 5* (+0) 10/* Square root */ typo < 1431181975 618267 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1431183188 940512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1431183463 368657 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :detailoerjanello. < 1431183480 589921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode � < 1431183495 525941 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] < 1431183521 557767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vaguelyvisiboily < 1431183645 472914 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( \foo : String => interpolate "Hello, ${foo}!" < 1431183645 736540 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :\13foo => 09prim__concat 04"Hello, " (09prim__concat 13foo 04"!") : 12String -> 12String < 1431183766 453213 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/DavidLivey/status/596629805417811968 < 1431183782 395131 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :important lesson about coding for edge-cases your election graphics there < 1431183784 491435 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in you < 1431183786 222431 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in your < 1431183930 205455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :( let s = "Hello, ${foo}!" in \foo : String => interpolate s < 1431183930 458118 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :\13foo => 09prim__concat 04"Hello, " (09prim__concat 13foo 04"!") : 12String -> 12String < 1431183998 209543 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :( let s = "Hello, ${foo}!"; f t (foo : String) => interpolate t in f s < 1431183998 395110 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(input):1:1: error: expected: ":", < 1431183998 542139 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : dependent type signature, < 1431183998 542215 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : end of input < 1431183998 542274 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :let s = "Hello, ${foo}!"; f t (foo : String) => interpolate t in f s < 1431183998 542299 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1431184011 501977 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1431184017 903689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :( let s = "Hello, ${foo}!"; f t (foo : String) = interpolate t in f s < 1431184018 50536 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(input):1:1: error: expected: ":", < 1431184018 197407 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : dependent type signature, < 1431184018 197550 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : end of input < 1431184018 197585 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :let s = "Hello, ${foo}!"; f t (foo : String) = interpolate t in f s < 1431184018 197606 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1431184022 292378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1431184057 848968 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :let isn’t letrec and indeed can only take one equation. < 1431184071 480072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a scow < 1431184219 245441 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :let f : String -> String -> String; f t foo = interpolate t < 1431184229 401545 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1431184235 509791 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1431184238 993298 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ran out of memory. < 1431184241 685677 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat. < 1431184411 125127 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should have complained about a stuck term in a reflected elaborator script. < 1431184597 481956 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1431184600 325179 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird, it just eats memory. < 1431184623 448041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependently typed language: a language which shuffles all termination problems into the type system. < 1431184706 290071 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this isn’t about the types really, it’s about the elaborator. < 1431184755 106656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elaborator: a subsystem of a dependently typed language that tries to remove blame from the type system < 1431184838 5230 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It’s the thing that turns Idris into TT, which involves expanding all the sugar, qualifying all the names, and inserting all the implicit arguments. < 1431184878 586376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds elaborate < 1431185103 853356 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we have an implicit argument to interpolate that has a default value which invokes an elaborator script, a program written in idris that runs in the Elab monad, that recieves a reflected version of the environment and produces a reflected version of the desired term. < 1431185202 746820 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here’s the code: http://lpaste.net/132218 and the first more-than-half of that is noodling about with the parsing library. < 1431185369 757700 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a tagged union an example of a dependent type? < 1431185416 631869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that depends hth < 1431185419 583730 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on what you mean maybe? Haskell has Either just fine non-dependently. < 1431185477 285838 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you say, have a type of tags, and a function that assigns the tags types, and put that in a dependent pair, … < 1431185573 977689 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431185766 697267 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Based on reading idris's website, this seems to mean that type checking can depend on arbitrary computations < 1431185776 611451 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1431185783 158413 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh < 1431185794 317968 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather: < 1431185828 194941 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrary known-terminating computations. < 1431185876 641614 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Expressions with things that aren’t known to be total just fail to reduce in types. < 1431186080 131375 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The termination checker is rather conservative, it requires that recursive calls be made on a subterm of the input.) < 1431186199 35068 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, in the paste I posted, the merge function at the top takes a Vect because it doesn’t fulfill that requirement if it takes a List. < 1431186488 443041 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42816&oldid=42706 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (-831) 10Replaced content with " ''$''{fuck:[>]}·test" < 1431186526 423447 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :replaced content with fuck? < 1431186552 14544 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42817&oldid=42816 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+30) 10 < 1431186575 75566 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...??? < 1431186592 664738 :hilquias!~user@unaffiliated/hilquias JOIN :#esoteric < 1431186595 129725 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42818&oldid=42817 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (-1) 10 < 1431186624 312367 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fungot is going on... < 1431186624 497233 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: then by all means! i want my source code, then < 1431186670 285579 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: even the source doesn't help hth < 1431186670 574091 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: call another program from this perspective, you'll find a slightly more optimal format.) emacs uses a stack ( ring, rather) < 1431186718 160403 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Gibberish/JavaScript14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42819&oldid=42818 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (-12) 10 < 1431186953 899464 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i'm not sure Esowiki201529A quite understands talk pages. although e's the only contributor to that one. < 1431187153 551385 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42820&oldid=42716 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+44) 10/* Disruptive edits */ < 1431187218 617484 :hilquias!~user@unaffiliated/hilquias QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1431187250 321433 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42821&oldid=42820 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+55) 10/* Quiney */ < 1431187293 37230 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42822&oldid=42821 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+47) 10/* Quiney */ < 1431187363 339917 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42823&oldid=42822 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+56) 10/* Quiney */ < 1431187380 142085 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I understand talk pages anymore < 1431187475 598550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1431187476 909698 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the title is incorrect due to technicallimitations. the correct titleis talk page" < 1431187504 348257 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42824&oldid=42823 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+174) 10/* Quiney */ < 1431187664 590489 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42825&oldid=42824 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+120) 10/* Quiney */ < 1431187705 870456 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42826&oldid=42825 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (-1) 10/* Quiney */ < 1431187818 196689 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Orenwatson14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42827&oldid=41324 5* 03Orenwatson 5* (+22) 10 < 1431187834 415400 :hilquias!~user@unaffiliated/hilquias JOIN :#esoteric < 1431188108 862499 :kline!~kline@unaffiliated/kline NICK :homel1nen < 1431188392 449747 :homel1nen!~kline@unaffiliated/kline NICK :kline < 1431190932 649471 :aretecode!~aretecode@S01061859339e5f51.cc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1431191463 812356 :aretecode!~aretecode@S01061859339e5f51.cc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1431191495 197347 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. I hate this trend of using special fonts to put logos and pretty-ass buttons on web pages < 1431191536 824610 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it for pretty-ass buttons. small semantic icons are helpful hth < 1431191567 989668 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: seems like your attitude is more like kth hth < 1431191624 568244 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should use the unicode emojis < 1431191633 947835 :aretecode!~aretecode@S01061859339e5f51.cc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1431191646 686672 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: yeah. I don't load the fonts, and I hate icons (even when they're picture-based) in first place. < 1431191660 381175 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never figure out what the icons mean. They should just use text. < 1431191671 356550 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: shellochaf. what's a kth twh < 1431191676 89247 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :On saner websites, there's at least title text explaining what they mean. < 1431191681 573825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :know that helps hth < 1431191691 823025 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: no. unicodemojis are... they disturb my feng shui. < 1431191698 747578 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: tdh. t. < 1431191735 645761 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will get worse when colored font support will get commonly implemented in browsers by the way. < 1431191735 999750 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tonsils do help < 1431191745 807804 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the icon-text combo is the best imo. small visual cues to guide your eyes to common operations, with text for stuff you can't remember. < 1431191783 412985 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coloured font support is a thing? (well, it existed a long time ago with bitmap tiles, but with current technology?) < 1431191804 23052 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they do, even when they get excised. ice creaaaaaaam! < 1431191813 328702 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, text only would be enough. it can be two pieces of text, a short one as a label and a longer title text for explanation. But I know icons help some other people, so if they want them, sure. < 1431191822 277039 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like they don't even use the standard code point for icons that are standard like floppy disk and gear < 1431191826 491909 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: not really current tech yet, but some people are working on it < 1431191848 847641 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode gear < 1431191851 580540 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​⚙ < 1431191857 453164 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that one < 1431191859 880775 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode floppy disk < 1431191862 421818 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: apparently people want it for colored smiling face emojis or something < 1431191863 386264 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1F4BE FLOPPY DISK \ UTF-8: f0 9f 92 be UTF-16BE: d83ddcbe Decimal: 💾 \ 💾 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) < 1431191880 42542 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode pause < 1431191883 877773 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1431191892 520259 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: Such a scow. < 1431191933 710109 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ⏸ < 1431191934 569552 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+23F8 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: e2 8f b8 UTF-16BE: 23f8 Decimal: ⏸ \ ⏸ (⏸) \ Uppercase: U+23F8 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) < 1431191941 301164 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: bletch! < 1431191948 394261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have so many code points and they can't find room within their cold dark hea^H^H^Hplanes for play/pause/fast forward/rewind? < 1431191951 181110 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ⏸ < 1431191952 125269 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+23F8 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: e2 8f b8 UTF-16BE: 23f8 Decimal: ⏸ \ ⏸ (⏸) \ Uppercase: U+23F8 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) < 1431191988 408005 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that’s DOUBLE VERTICAL BAR with an alias “pause”. < 1431192018 264607 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they used the standard code points, it would at least whow up semi-properly, and you could even have fonts that diplay them as SAVE, SETTINGS, PAUSE etc < 1431192028 275384 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The next two are BLACK SQUARE FOR STOP and BLACK CIRCLE FOR RECORD. < 1431192028 650788 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I'm not specifically against colored font support, firstly because it could be useful for decorative header fonts, secondly because if people get it working, then maybe they'll also improve the rendering and font-making tools for grayscale bitmap (not vector) fonts. < 1431192080 411484 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode eject < 1431192081 361534 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+23CF EJECT SYMBOL \ UTF-8: e2 8f 8f UTF-16BE: 23cf Decimal: ⏏ \ ⏏ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) < 1431192086 314860 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like colored smiley face nonsense, especially when it's used with auto-replace like, you know, Data:☺umper < 1431192164 305365 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah that tends to cause problems when discussing code on facebook < 1431192238 36995 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mibbit and Skype are two particular offenders. It's possible to turn it off in both, though the option is well-hidden, and the other party has to do it as well. < 1431192238 517651 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1⏨40 < 1431192239 823775 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: ‘⏨’ < 1431192244 621361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't discuss code on facebook hth < 1431192268 779308 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: As in, it turns if *either* side has it turned on? < 1431192269 804185 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also some web forums doing autoreplacements, though some of them only use longer replace codes, not short ones like :) or :P < 1431192305 398768 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: no, I think the message goes through as you type, and how it shows up in your window is determined by your setting, no matter who sent the message. < 1431192314 573610 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My project group moved to just typing our discussion into a shared google doc for that reason < 1431192319 59687 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not quite sure about this < 1431192325 831297 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :test if you really have to know < 1431192340 265857 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Then what do you mean by “the other party has to do it as well”? < 1431192373 155308 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you are both typing code samples < 1431192373 386531 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: as in, if I send a message saying "you should use the Data::Dumper module" and the other party doesn't set the option, then he will see a smiley face < 1431192391 844417 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, even if only one of you is typing < 1431192395 633424 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you see your own messages too < 1431192400 804096 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1431192403 402207 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1431192416 719042 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mibbit (the web irc client) used to work similarly before it got banned from freenode completely < 1431192449 193851 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think qwebirc and kiwi irc don't do such autoreplacements, but I'm not so sure < 1431192465 852852 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shared google doc works surprisdingly well as a chat client < 1431192496 826751 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems at least two clients so far misparse mirc color codes such that my bot’s output looks wrong. < 1431192503 286704 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo etherpad < 1431192516 795878 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about just irc? < 1431192521 794767 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's tons of clients < 1431192540 713169 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should get some selected colleagues to use it rather than skype < 1431192581 2711 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it might be difficult because they already run skype for voice chat and/or video chat < 1431192622 110399 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :voice chat is terrible if you have an open plan office < 1431192633 757249 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also prefer using IRC too, with just text chat < 1431192644 695428 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For voice you just use the telephone < 1431192649 308679 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: yep < 1431192659 103849 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: we use telephone a lot too, sure < 1431192677 596500 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :at my old job we only used gmail IM thingy < 1431192679 100071 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we even have some company phones with a plan such that they can call each other for free < 1431192727 472023 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one problem with that is that the phone hw generally used for them is REALLY bad, unusable even compared to cheap smartphones in general < 1431192741 725409 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've temporarily put the sim card in my phone at least once because of this < 1431192809 606209 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, they're smartphones with so bad a touchscreen it ignores most touches, so I can't terminate calls or initiate them, and I can't easily figure out how to use them with a headphone because none of the two possible interfaces seem to work with them < 1431192828 88581 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at least one sometimes ignores incoming calls < 1431192852 512430 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Hangouts for everyone. < 1431192868 300336 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not contractually obligated to say that. As far as you know. < 1431192881 281682 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I mean use a landline telephone < 1431192914 934291 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so temporarily moving the sim card is definitely worth the hassle, but that's hard if someone passes me the phone with someone already on the line and the speaker is set to so silent I can barely hear them, and I can't put in a headphone nor increase the volume < 1431192941 479007 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the phones are so bad that using skype voice call instead can be worth, which is saying something < 1431192998 766489 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: we have very few landline phones in the company. possibly none. they're going out of fashion rapidly everywhere. < 1431193010 195145 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except Asia < 1431193022 311023 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no surprise of course, because the mobile phones are better in almost everything. < 1431193066 939146 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if eventually public phone boots will use mobile phone technology as well < 1431193090 938969 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the landlines are better though < 1431193118 272053 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Landlines have the advantage of reliability < 1431193121 874601 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, landline phones _will_ be supported for long still, basically because they can get them as a free extra to houses where they take the internet < 1431193141 378113 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can install even new lines because of internet and cable tv < 1431193171 384126 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: that's the traditional wisdom, but it won't be true for long as landline gets less popular and less maintained by the companies < 1431193191 964191 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Landline phones in particular work during a blackout < 1431193216 645727 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :While the internet doesn't, typically. < 1431193218 711282 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: already here in our house they're installing landline phones that go through ip, with a box outside the house that converts between landline in the house and internet outside, so they'll be only as reliable as the internet connection < 1431193228 871329 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, those are some advantages < 1431193235 820484 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also landlines use a simple protocol < 1431193245 71841 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that'snot a ral landline then < 1431193261 532385 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it won't work when the internet is broken (though perhaps sometimes they'll have the internet only partly broken so the landline will still work) < 1431193299 763166 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1431193300 592912 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: sort of. the interface towards us will be unchanged, it will behave as a landline, except for slightly cheaper price < 1431193309 371959 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it won't be as reliable as landline indeed < 1431193323 843443 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might still be a bit more reliable than both the internet and power < 1431193392 981118 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's a brilliant invention from the provider's side: if the internet is down, you can't complain to their customer service on telephone because the telephone is down too < 1431193407 793382 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that alone will save them a ton of money < 1431193417 301741 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1431193423 224694 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, customer service costs a lot < 1431193432 447562 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, people might still complain on mobile phone or from other places < 1431193447 69305 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: In that case, wide swathes of country don’t have real landlines available anymore. < 1431193457 29819 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1431193458 88435 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The providers don’t offer it. < 1431193482 786666 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only IP-based telephony. < 1431193535 238176 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, calling the customer service is free only if you call from telephone with the same provider, so if you call from mobile, you have to pay for at least the call. that still doesn't cover most of their costs of handling the call, but it will discourage people so they'll call less. < 1431193551 457000 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more I think about it, the more brilliant it is < 1431193554 859943 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you it still goes through a separate channel from your usual internet generally, but it isn’t analog anymore and thus won’t work on minimal power which comes from batteries in the nearest terminator. < 1431193591 18940 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're really smart, they'll also make sure the short number of the customer service (4 digit long, which they advertise the most) only works from the same provider, and few people will know the normal length phone number (which you can call from abroad too) < 1431193640 8659 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? I only have a long number for our customer support < 1431193696 847627 :hilquias!~user@unaffiliated/hilquias QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1431193705 977742 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: we have short numbers. sometimes multiple (eg. one for pre-paid mobile, one for post-paid mobile, one for business customers), and if you call the wrong number, they just send you to the other number, and sometimes they send you in circles < 1431193711 53968 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/circles/loops/ < 1431193762 643274 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, so many things get short numbers here (all starting by 1 now) that there are short numbers of length 3, 4, 5, and 6. the 6 digit long ones are hard to call short numbers, though those are rare. < 1431193801 61030 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when numbers wer usually 7 digits < 1431193820 508343 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you have to dial 10 < 1431193853 74651 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the emergency services and a few other stuff get 3 digit numbers, telephone and internet provider service lines and stuff like that get 4 digit numbers, charity donation numbers are 4 or 5 digit long, < 1431193902 929241 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :commercial services that are publically useful, like car trailing service, get 4 digit long if they pay a lot, or longer if they dont; commercial services that aren't viewed as publically useful, like voting for tv reality shows, can get 5 or 6 digit long numbers if they pay a lot. < 1431193938 699587 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. In canada AFAIK, we only have 3 digit and 10 digit numbers < 1431193973 928505 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that they keep changing the short numbers so often you can't follow them, because they're valuable assets and in number space shared by multiple providers, < 1431194006 167884 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's very difficult to find out about them, because there doesn't seem to be any central directory listing them all, you only find out about them in advertisments of particular services. < 1431194028 338758 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here the ordinary numbers are six digits. Or were, I think all the new ones are seven but the six-digit ones are still around. < 1431194086 83032 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the emergency service numbers have changed twice in my lifetime: they used to be 04, 05, 07, later those got deprecated and changed to 104, 105, 107, now those are deprecated too and they recommend using only 112, though I _hope_ the deprecated numbers are still available for very long in that case. < 1431194095 628241 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :other short numbers change much more often. < 1431194117 242858 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here they’ve been 110 and 112 forever. < 1431194199 685245 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, ordinary numbers for mobile phones are 2+7 digits (used to be 2+7 before), landlines for budapest are 1+7 digits (used to be 1+6 before), other landlines and special area codes (like toll-free and premium) are 2+6 long. < 1431194255 858258 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and _all_ old numbers in budapest were changed twice: once when they were changed from 1+6 digit to 1+7 digit by adding a prefix 1, and once when all the numbers starting with 1 were obliterated so they're used for short numbers only. < 1431194267 460604 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In toronto the special numbers I know are 911 (emergency) 311 (city services) 411 (phone directory service) < 1431194309 395809 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(previously short numbers used to start with 0, then with 0 and 9, then with 0 and 9 and 1, then later with only 1) < 1431194315 347903 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Here the six-digit local numbers have stuck around even though they’re handing out seven-digits ones now. < 1431194318 364831 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mobile phone numbers were changed only once, by prefixing a 9) < 1431194346 364013 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: you can't do that in Budapest, which is a _really_ large city < 1431194352 879777 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed, it depends on the area code; smaller areas have shorter local numbers (but usually a longer area code). < 1431194411 623229 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :This system works only because Budapest is big and all other towns are small. < 1431194419 244717 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what the city size has to do with it. < 1431194436 244481 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you want a single area code for Budapest, you need 7 digit numbers < 1431194463 600552 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only 800000 available 6-digit numbers, which is way too few < 1431194477 750084 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you probably mean the six-digit ones could clash with seven-digit ones? < 1431194496 987466 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but every other town is small, so the other approx. 40 landline area codes can easily be assigned such that 6 digit is enough < 1431194500 826833 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: yes < 1431194505 483294 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no terminator in landlines < 1431194509 456152 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1431194514 558160 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never realized this. < 1431194535 283502 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also why you can't have landline numbers starting with 0 or 1 < 1431194537 670005 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost 7 million people live in toronto, so there are multiple area codes (3 digit prefixes) which contain each 10000000 7 digit numbers < 1431194541 605083 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they started connecting once one paused for sufficiently long. < 1431194591 786367 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: I think they did that temporarily for a very short time at the incompatible numbering plan change for Budapest < 1431194595 94795 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-191-081.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays, they start when one pushes the green button. < 1431194607 849046 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :landline phones still don't < 1431194609 463653 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finland had something before the EU-wide 112. I think it might've been 999. < 1431194630 13718 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :landline phones dial with either pulse or dtmf tone mode, neither of which has a terminator < 1431194653 151474 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think Austria has or had 122, 133, 144 but I'm not sure < 1431194685 670737 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia "List of emergency telephone numbers" to the rescue. < 1431194696 359859 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :112 has been working for very long here, definitely before mobile phones got popular < 1431194720 480087 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only they weren't convinced it's worth to use a unified emergency number instead of three separate ones, so they kept the separate ones < 1431194724 604710 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not convinced either) < 1431194759 295024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had "10022" for the police, but that got merged into 112. < 1431194779 199298 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to merge _one_ emergency service < 1431194785 509772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it was 000 and not 999 before 112. And the changeover was in 1993 in Finland. < 1431194785 785331 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :merging all three is the hard part < 1431194800 306006 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :000? that takes like ages to dial with pulse < 1431194818 635431 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that 07 was much better) < 1431194851 745637 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a unified number certainly has some advantages < 1431194860 638486 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when there's an emergency, I don't want to have to think of which number to dial < 1431194869 624788 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :always dialling 112 is the easiest < 1431194903 190755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the numbers in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emergency_telephone_numbers are pretty specific. < 1431194911 896732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the 114 for racial discrimination in Morocco. < 1431194994 278735 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the alleged 113 for "reporting spies" in (South) Korea. Although these generally don't have any citations. < 1431195009 654741 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unification everywhere in Europe is definitely useful ever since so many people have mobile phones and so many people can travel easily < 1431195047 565398 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no citations is because they're not listed properly anywhere < 1431195054 773236 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even on the homepage of providers anymore < 1431195073 182809 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and printed phonebooks get less and less accessible, these days even post offices usually don't have them < 1431195110 547118 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if they even print phonebooks these days (they still print smaller yellow-pages like business directories, and thin booklets for local services in a district) < 1431195152 180357 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The terms and conditions list _some_ short numbers because it has to give their pricing, but it doesn't tell what each of them means, and is hard to use < 1431195171 934973 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't they just have it as an appendix to online phonebooks like it used to appear in printed phonebooks (which also didn't list all short numbers btw) < 1431195208 804734 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The map in the phone book (for the Helsinki metropolitan region) used to be something people cut off from last year's version and use as a general map. < 1431195229 541510 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was maybe 50 pages or so, with a street name -> page-and-grid-reference mapping. < 1431195245 340672 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1431195275 947596 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they stopped distributing the printed copy to every household at some point. < 1431195289 43709 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be this three-volume 15 cm stack. < 1431195304 850094 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(#1 for people, #2 for companies and #3 for the yellow pages.) < 1431195325 209918 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we've ever had three-volume. We've had two-volume and one-volume versions for Budapest, and thinner one volume versions for each megye. < 1431195363 577238 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if you count yellow pages separately then maybe < 1431195424 203171 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently these days you can pick up a copy from many post offices, during a one-month window, but they don't home-deliver. < 1431195431 783096 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's gotten a lot thinner, though. < 1431195486 114699 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that used to exist for a day. I don't know if it still exists < 1431195491 314371 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there used to be a CD version for a while. < 1431195533 920528 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's definitely still an internet-based directory, but it's very hard to use and often broken, just like everything on the telephone provider's website < 1431195552 707204 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's of course the directory accessible through voice calls which has slightly different content < 1431195617 421454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main Finnish one is quite okay. There's the website lookup, and the usual set of mobile apps. < 1431195654 380202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "digital" versions used to cost extra, but now it's gone down to a 0.25 EUR SMS to open an account, and no other costs. < 1431195660 564502 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be mobile apps, I wouldn't know about it < 1431195678 926445 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably an SMS version, yes, I wouldn't know about that either < 1431195816 831568 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, do you use landline phone? < 1431195816 978793 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: true elegance... who is to measure recursion! :( < 1431195945 429470 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks to the way DSL things are generally set up here, we technically have a phone-enabled landline fungot could tap into, although nothing's connected to it. < 1431195946 162208 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: parsing of left and right sides are identified, so if i work on have browser interfaces oriented towards ie. so the important questions don't entirely respect the characterizations. my favorite ever was possibly pingpong, but i < 1431195971 22991 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could hook up a modem and use the ring signal as a side channel for something. < 1431196005 375563 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: why would that be useful? there's lots of other internet-based side channels you could use < 1431196014 699814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as a backup. < 1431196021 848771 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the Internet is down. < 1431196029 121961 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1431196067 933726 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you ring it, it dials a landline modem internet connection as backup, and uses expensive internet with 56 kilobit/sec speed there? < 1431196088 365527 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds good. < 1431196102 241913 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a free dialup at the university campus -- an elegant system, for a more civilized age. < 1431196110 781599 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody used it, but it hadn't gotten dismantled. < 1431196121 679242 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably is, now. < 1431196125 607016 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually these days the telephone provider provides a free dialup for landlines < 1431196148 226047 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it costs less than a normal voice phones, and is probably still cheap for the provider to run < 1431196156 776533 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the call still cost something? This was entirely free. (The local data, TV and phone networks were all built by the students.) < 1431196171 621609 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or at least, this had existed about two years ago) < 1431196177 724134 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, the call costs something < 1431196202 633354 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but less than a normal local voice call from the same landline would likely cost, unless you have a plan with unlimited local calls < 1431196217 179989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could call the "internal" (campus and university) numbers for free there. < 1431196231 727902 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the university provided a for-students dialup that was included. < 1431196232 454396 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1431196232 644187 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sure, if you're within the university it can be free < 1431196242 470536 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I routed our home interwebs over it once, when the Ethernet side was down for some hours. < 1431196245 119070 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this works from all landlines < 1431196255 72291 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1431196495 941098 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Helsinki telephone company used to have this pessimized-for-dialup-users pricing, where -- for 5pm-to-8am on weekdays, and all day on weekends -- there was a fixed (small) per-call cost for any call up to 30 minutes, and then the per-minute charges started ticking. Those evening-and-weekend times used to have just the per-call cost, before they realized they started getting dialup users ... < 1431196501 922425 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... doing one "call" per day and still using up their capacity. < 1431196526 444981 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You had to hang up and redial every half an hour or so for the cheapest stay-online experience. < 1431196556 809010 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you did it right, and had a static IP, you didn't even lose active TCP connections, so no dropping from IRC.) < 1431196653 188676 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1431196671 125721 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo aplay /dev/mem. < 1431197306 49271 :notfowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-qnhusupaoexfxdro NICK :unclefowl < 1431197499 756816 :unclefowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-qnhusupaoexfxdro QUIT :Excess Flood < 1431197545 822918 :notfowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-ptjiwltssjbgnhxl JOIN :#esoteric < 1431197559 831892 :G33kDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1431197626 574916 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question about Moore's law stuff. For how many years have most CPUs been having a constant 32 kilobytes of 4-way associative L1 cache? Should we expect this to continue? < 1431197664 14116 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand why the clock speed can't be increase further above 2 or 4 gigahertze, but I don't know enough about microelectronics and cpu design about how expensive it would be to grow the L1 cache. < 1431197773 511759 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1431197777 169907 :G33kDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude NICK :GeekDude < 1431197828 121380 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(L1 data cache to be precise) < 1431198460 145973 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: ELEVATOR CHICKEN < 1431199076 558443 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible idea i just had. Some people put comments in code like < 1431199099 164708 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = y + 4; //set x to y plus 4 < 1431199112 403525 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: yes, that's especially common in assembler code < 1431199113 370909 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cn be generate such comments automatically? < 1431199116 662011 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: sure < 1431199126 518632 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: people generate _api documentation stuff_ automatically too < 1431199185 301956 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, they write a function named void SetLength(int v) in the class Foo and automatically generate api documentation saying “Sets the length of the foo to the integer given in the parameter.” and even more fancy stuff deduced from code. < 1431199187 94150 :notfowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-ptjiwltssjbgnhxl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha < 1431199234 424671 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, it's horrible < 1431199288 36415 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, they automatically add meaningless six line long comments in the code saying /*! \brief Default constructor. Creates a Foo object. */ Foo(); < 1431199299 884974 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of some stupid conding standard that asks them to document every function or some such shit < 1431199313 932061 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :api documentation can be useful, but this kind of api docs is worse than nothing. < 1431199333 741433 :notfowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-ptjiwltssjbgnhxl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty annoying when youre typing extra shit that just goes to doc formatting < 1431199384 73162 :notfowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-ptjiwltssjbgnhxl PRIVMSG #esoteric :\brief etc < 1431199403 60998 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those comments should document only what's not immediately obvious to anyone reading the function name and type < 1431199540 633415 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an "english" command in candide, the ##c bot. < 1431199567 749304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:26 ,english x = y + 4; < 1431199567 897116 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:26 fizzie: Assign to `x` the result of the expression `y` plus 4. < 1431199570 811183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:26 ,english if (x()) y(); < 1431199573 257640 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:26 fizzie: If the result of the function `x` is nonzero then call the function `y`. < 1431199576 719504 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just run that on each statement, and add it as a comment. < 1431199629 355657 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :,english x = a*(b+c)*d; y = a*b+c*d; < 1431199649 203730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assign to `x` the result of the expression `a` times (`b` plus `c`) times `d` and then assign to `y` the result of the expression `a` times `b` plus `c` times `d`. < 1431199683 520005 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It recognizes some rather obscure special cases, but I don't remember what they are. < 1431199684 473446 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what it said in privmsg < 1431199740 415977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :void bar(char foo[static 41]) {} => "Let `bar` be a function taking `foo` as an array with optimization hint to provide access to the first element of 41 elements of char and returning void. When called, the function will do nothing." < 1431199777 340943 :notfowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-ptjiwltssjbgnhxl PRIVMSG #esoteric :,english x |= 42 << 12; < 1431199789 830139 :zadock!~zadock@81.180.210.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1431199814 642386 :notfowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-ptjiwltssjbgnhxl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fizzie isn't a bot lol < 1431199826 352294 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :notfowl: you can private message candide < 1431199855 491579 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also special-recognizes the "!! operator". < 1431199859 527857 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rinzebshfgqdtjqc JOIN :#esoteric < 1431199866 300968 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:31 ,english !!x < 1431199866 449894 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:31 fizzie: The normalized boolean value of `x`. < 1431199914 535878 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a related note, My mostrecent version of scrip7 generates the documentation for commands by sedding the comments and the case : values < 1431199945 934307 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: I see < 1431200008 604361 :impomatic_!~digital_w@31.185.153.201 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1431200472 790871 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the sed commands are specific to the particular code, the code can simply look like this: http://ctrlv.in/572297 < 1431200544 9137 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the docs can look like: http://ctrlv.in/572298 < 1431200577 770328 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh sequential urls < 1431201016 217165 :notfowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-ptjiwltssjbgnhxl QUIT :Changing host < 1431201016 417731 :notfowl!Elite14005@unaffiliated/fowlmouth JOIN :#esoteric < 1431201016 417776 :notfowl!Elite14005@unaffiliated/fowlmouth QUIT :Changing host < 1431201016 417794 :notfowl!Elite14005@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-ptjiwltssjbgnhxl JOIN :#esoteric < 1431201371 512042 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So iow, you can see what peoplearound the globe are doing by entring in numbers near the current one < 1431202472 668549 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also http://ctrlv.in/1 < 1431203369 908240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the answer is "mostly watching porn or playing minecraft". (Based of a N=8 sample.) < 1431203496 467600 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2a85f.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren, please parameterize queries < 1431203540 390254 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2a85f.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, those values don't look particularly untrusted. Still a good habit to get into < 1431203667 886593 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which queries? < 1431204472 983337 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, i'm seeing a lot of photos of an indian woman for some reason < 1431204503 363835 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose that's about what you'd expect for a random sample from across the globe < 1431205298 282865 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among people who searched upload image in english especially < 1431206409 317091 :hilquias!~user@unaffiliated/hilquias JOIN :#esoteric < 1431206596 896433 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1431206783 785020 :orin!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1431207014 859265 :zadock!~zadock@81.180.210.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1431207396 75953 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c2a85f.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I O it's magic, you know < 1431209296 404789 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1431212265 396970 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1431212559 605814 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qfvpspfqrzishlbb JOIN :#esoteric < 1431214068 325756 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qfvpspfqrzishlbb QUIT : < 1431214138 211803 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1431214749 740974 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@199-241-202-205.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1431214773 232934 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia JOIN :#esoteric < 1431214794 73732 :Froox!~Frooxius@199-241-202-205.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1431214923 312938 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1431215033 732052 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@199-241-202-205.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1431215540 954270 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting, those ctrlv.in images have OCR'd text as alt text < 1431215554 430110 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could (ab)use it as an OCR service? < 1431215578 970289 :orin!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1431215599 759012 :orin!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511869.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it takes some time to show up, it's not there right away < 1431215605 35315 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1431215936 188956 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric