00:08:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:26:49 * oerjan finds out that it's been just 30 days since last he properly looked at recent changes on the wiki 00:27:14 and also, that it's possible to expand it by editing the url 00:29:47 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 00:33:05 Hauska on tietää lisää: Miten toimii kamera. 00:33:12 Sorry, that's something that always pops up in my head when there's something that could be associated with "the more you know". 00:33:54 It's the title of the Finnish translation of http://www.amazon.com/How-Works-Camera-David-Carey/dp/0721402550 00:45:42 -!- bb010g has joined. 00:48:33 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42977&oldid=42969 * 98.182.24.67 * (-149) /* Java */ 00:54:06 -!- solid_whiskey has joined. 00:59:12 -!- MDude has joined. 01:08:01 [wiki] [[Underload]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42978&oldid=42679 * Oerjan * (+15) /* Numbers */ put in context 01:10:42 -!- boily has joined. 01:11:31 hellørjan. 01:12:00 shellochaf, helloren, quinthellopia, Tanelle. 01:12:08 ahoily 01:12:40 finally home! 01:14:57 [wiki] [[Talk:Gibberish (programming language)]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42979&oldid=42711 * Oerjan * (+47) Time is of the essence 01:15:23 no longer adrift at sea! 01:16:00 well, if you consider the Canal Rideau to be some sort of sea... 01:16:45 looks wet, checks out 01:20:53 [wiki] [[Alphabetti spaghetti]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42980&oldid=42720 * Oerjan * (+10) intro fmt 01:22:43 [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42981&oldid=42976 * Oerjan * (+0) /* A */ ala phabetically 01:30:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:41:56 I definetely love thid font. i dont know why but I love thesr lowrt case numbets. 01:45:07 the rideau canal is cetaimly connected to a sea 01:45:26 fungot: why have you corrupted oren? next thing you know he'll be fnording. 01:45:26 boily: but the rebellion fnord and now that i think i am going to say something remarkable, and truly manly, and reminds us of a company of merchants. i know, indeed i am ready to believe he is in the one mode or in the mode of conception. shakspeare is guided by the conditions under which the people thereof, shall on that day the following speech was made. 01:46:45 boily: i'm tting to learn to tpicj tyoe hth 01:47:13 *touch tyoe 01:47:20 fnord type :P 01:47:20 *topuch type 01:47:55 godajnm iy! 01:48:04 aaaaa 01:48:48 dienfosh 01:49:58 seriously how do peoole do this widtho8utr making mistakers 01:50:19 practice, practice, practice. 01:50:33 (also, a few years of piano *may* have helped hth) 01:51:11 `? dienfosh 01:51:12 dienfosh? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:51:53 -!- Wright__ has joined. 01:51:53 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:52:19 oh well. dienfosh. 01:52:19 -!- mitchs has left. 01:52:30 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MUTEX CHICKEN). 01:55:10 mutexes atr hard to imlement. when i got mine to work it felt like dumb luikc mote than skill 01:56:42 [wiki] [[Piet++]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42982&oldid=42754 * Oerjan * (-1) typo 01:57:09 dont look ar keyboard dont lookea keyboard dont look at keytboard 01:57:49 hm my touch tyåing is a bit out of form 01:57:57 *shape 01:59:01 or wait maybe it's just that i was trying too hard 02:01:26 hmm ttying too hard? 02:01:46 *trying 02:04:30 as in, i type faster when i'm not concentrating too hard on typing :P 02:04:59 still not exactly world class speed 02:08:15 [wiki] [[Talk:Befunge]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42983&oldid=42741 * Oerjan * (+44) /* Befunge programs? */ unsigned 02:18:04 -!- ocharles_ has quit. 02:18:18 -!- ocharles_ has joined. 02:19:34 [wiki] [[SE]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42984&oldid=42762 * Oerjan * (+1) Intro, resectioning, quine code 02:21:14 -!- solid_whiskey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:26:15 [wiki] [[There Once was a Fish Named Fred]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42985&oldid=42763 * Oerjan * (+1) /* Hello world */ wikify 02:29:18 [wiki] [[Talk:ASCII art]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42986&oldid=42768 * Oerjan * (+48) unsigned 02:30:51 [wiki] [[Talk:Lazy evaluation]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42987&oldid=42769 * Oerjan * (+48) unsigned 02:33:52 -!- solid_whiskey has joined. 02:39:29 -!- solid_whiskey has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:40:27 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42988&oldid=42977 * Oerjan * (+149) Undo revision 42977 by [[Special:Contributions/98.182.24.67|98.182.24.67]] ([[User talk:98.182.24.67|talk]]) 02:45:40 [wiki] [[HeartForth]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42989&oldid=42790 * Oerjan * (+14) /* Links */ wikify 02:46:15 [wiki] [[HeartForth]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42990&oldid=42989 * Oerjan * (+6) introfy 02:48:44 T am iound to t.p eo tkle tn Dqngar qithouh actuarrf ynorinb tt, 02:48:55 Which results in incomprehensible nonsense. 02:49:18 "I am going to try to type in Dvorak without actually knowing it." 02:49:36 From now on, I'm referring to Dvorak as "D'q'ngar". 02:52:00 are you implying that dvorak users are secretly klingons 02:56:55 [wiki] [[Talk:Clue (Keymaker)]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42991&oldid=42800 * Oerjan * (-1) Fixing formatting since that's what my brain is awake enough for 02:57:15 Paracrystically. 02:57:33 U kuje ti sguft ibe gabd bt ibe cikynb ub tge QWERTT jetbiard, 02:57:58 tswett: now you gotta complete the rest of the double dactyl hth 02:58:07 "I like to shift one hand by one column in the QWERTY keyboard." 02:58:28 actually, "jetbiard" sounds great enough that it can be made into my naming pool 02:59:08 jetbiard the flying viking 03:10:44 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:14:17 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:15:31 -!- adu has joined. 03:16:45 -!- a21 has changed nick to CADD. 03:26:24 -!- heroux has joined. 03:27:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:28:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 03:28:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:29:35 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:54:11 -!- oren has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:57:07 -!- oren has joined. 04:06:04 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:38:52 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:49:32 -!- Nihilumbra has joined. 05:06:36 -!- M_I_Wright has joined. 05:06:59 This is my backup irc client, don't mind me 05:07:52 -!- olsner has joined. 05:20:37 -!- undoall has joined. 05:30:37 -!- M_I_Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:36:18 I mind you 05:37:27 -!- shachaf has left. 05:42:01 -!- adu has joined. 06:14:32 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:17:17 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:21:19 -!- heroux has joined. 06:23:22 `? monad 06:23:23 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 06:25:37 `? gonad 06:25:38 gonads are the best punctional fondlegramming squishcture. 06:26:04 aw i was hoping for "Gonads are just gonoids in the category of innuendofunctors." 06:31:05 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 06:42:18 -!- esowiki has joined. 06:42:22 -!- esowiki has joined. 06:42:23 -!- esowiki has joined. 06:42:23 -!- glogbot has joined. 06:42:29 -!- FreeFull has joined. 06:42:42 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:42:42 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 06:42:55 -!- TodPunk has joined. 06:47:36 -!- augur has joined. 06:55:02 Ouch 07:05:07 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:28:52 @quote zygohistomorphic 07:28:52 comonad says: - comonad [~functor@zygohistomorphic-prepromorphism.endofunctor.org] has joined #haskell 07:30:48 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:52:47 -!- newsham has joined. 08:08:00 [wiki] [[ASCII art-]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42992 * Vriskanon * (+1461) Added ASCII art-, an [[ASCII art]] derivative. 08:09:14 [wiki] [[User:Vriskanon]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42993&oldid=42950 * Vriskanon * (+23) Added [[ASCII art-]] 08:10:14 [wiki] [[Joke language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42994&oldid=42951 * Vriskanon * (+17) /* Brainfuck derivatives */ Added [[ASCII art-]] 08:11:25 [wiki] [[Talk:ASCII art]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42995&oldid=42986 * Vriskanon * (+132) 08:13:13 Is that a vriska 08:13:24 Homestuck trash 08:17:56 Brb I'm fighting a giant snake 08:18:58 -!- hilquias has joined. 08:22:26 [wiki] [[Basilisk]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42996&oldid=42670 * Vriskanon * (+29) Category: Joke Languages 08:23:11 [wiki] [[420]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42997&oldid=42674 * Vriskanon * (+29) [[Category:Joke languages]] 08:23:36 [wiki] [[ASCII art-]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42998&oldid=42992 * Vriskanon * (+29) [[Category:Joke languages]] 08:24:21 Executing a 41 GB text file 08:24:43 Jormangander or something like that 08:30:24 Jǫrmungandr 08:31:40 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:36:10 -!- supay has quit. 08:36:38 Thank 08:39:26 -!- supay has joined. 08:42:44 [wiki] [[Fringespeak]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42999&oldid=42900 * Oerjan * (+9) wiffy 08:44:07 fungot: welcome 08:44:07 mroman_: church of ireland a bad institution. this may perhaps prove that we are entering its gates, in the same at judicious intervals, should eat the entire barrel at one sitting of the late payment of the premiums into small periodical sums, and also an fnord party, and even of her personal existence, and seems to consider as a trust for charity; and who, rather than in the former set, the population is from 125 to 250, or r 08:45:03 [wiki] [[Alacrity]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43000&oldid=42902 * Oerjan * (+4) wookiefy 08:45:05 oerjan: Hm? 08:45:17 You mean the f(n) > g(n) stuff? 08:45:22 Wow fungot 08:45:22 Nihilumbra: i will teach you how to steal, so that i could wish, indeed, the most powerful, the most unprecedented, the most fnord of its professors must be every night exchanged for the hideous coats and waistcoats of the present alarming state of public opinion, and if it receives countenance by the most successful, because to-night we should particularly observe, i think. yes; it's seven. but that any condensation which does 08:45:26 WOW 08:45:38 mroman_: yes iirc 08:46:17 fungot: i think Nihilumbra is insulted 08:46:17 oerjan: the most decisive proof of mr sadler's proposition is. he asserts, and our love knows no distinction. under such a constitution nominally existed in france; while, in all seasons, and in one respect the analogy is very striking. as there always are many rotten members belonging to the dramatic, musical, and equestrian sick fund association." 08:46:24 oerjan: What's wrong with that? 08:47:05 Except that there might be some n where f(n) > g(n) doesn't hold 08:47:19 mroman_: it didn't seem very relevant to an O() proof 08:47:47 f(n) > g(n) just means that f is steeper than g 08:48:31 f(n) > g(n) pings me for somereason 08:48:50 no, it means that f(n) > g(n) for some or all n. 08:49:18 it has nothing to do with asymptotics 08:49:28 Right. 08:49:30 until you put the right quantifiers on 08:49:53 and constants 08:50:13 and Big Omegas and Big Thetas 08:51:39 f \growsfasterthan g 08:52:13 [wiki] [[Talk:Malbrain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43001&oldid=42878 * Oerjan * (-1) fmt 08:52:31 there's probably a symbol for it, but it's not > 08:53:45 theres f(n) \elem \BigOmega (n) or something like that I think 08:53:50 it's not very ASCII friendly though 08:54:54 [wiki] [[Talk:Wepmlrio]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43002&oldid=42903 * Oerjan * (+48) unsigned 08:55:11 [wiki] [[Talk:Wepmlrio]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43003&oldid=43002 * Oerjan * (+1) oops 08:58:24 wepmlrio is the laziest knock-off ever 08:59:07 [wiki] [[APLBAONWSJAS]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43004&oldid=42958 * Oerjan * (+7) bold, typos 08:59:22 also... 08:59:31 isn't ASCII-Art- just brainfuck o_O? 09:00:44 looks like that 09:01:52 that's stupid 09:01:55 i demand deletion 09:02:46 I Demand Deletion sounds like a good language name 09:02:53 [wiki] [[Random Brainfuck]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43005&oldid=42968 * Oerjan * (+5) typo 09:02:59 [wiki] [[Talk:ASCII art-]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43006 * 160.85.232.168 * (+120) brainfuck? 09:03:06 it should have no garbage collector, though 09:03:26 I guess that happens when 14 year old try to make their own languages :) 09:04:23 Needs [[Category:ASCII art derivative]] imo 09:04:29 I mean... ASCII-Art even says that it's just brainfuck but ascii-artified 09:04:43 if you unasciiartify it it's plain old brainfuck 09:05:18 It also says it goes off of what the last input was or something like that 09:05:27 Who made it 09:07:25 I finished the statistics thing I was doing btw 09:07:33 What statistics thing? 09:07:39 Logs 09:07:40 I love statistics. 09:08:30 I was making a statistics chart for my bot to see how it preformed when doing large tasks such as moving cores, 09:08:36 But I have to enter it manually 09:08:40 So it takes awhile 09:09:05 434.4 of 100k people in switzerland have cancer 09:09:08 I just have to look over it and check for minor mistakes 09:09:12 *male people 09:09:18 Cool 09:09:23 How do you know that 09:09:23 179.9 of them die 09:09:45 Lets just say four out of ten have it 09:09:51 1 out of 4 die 09:10:06 > 100000 / 434 09:10:08 230.4147465437788 09:10:17 > 100000 / 230.4 09:10:19 434.02777777777777 09:10:19 Round it down 09:10:26 damn 09:10:31 how does math work again. 09:10:35 Idfk 09:10:46 Did you divide that 09:11:03 Why did it go up to its original number 09:11:10 > let q f (a,b) = (f a, f b) in q (/100) (100000, 434.4) 09:11:12 (1000.0,4.343999999999999) 09:11:29 it's 4 in a thousand 09:11:32 Actually wth was I thinking 09:11:45 I could've used lambdabot for help 09:11:59 And shortened the ammount of time by like a day 09:12:02 yeah so 1 out of 1k probably dies of cancer 09:12:15 Why do you wish to know this btw 09:12:23 the statistics was taken over 4 years 09:12:25 so 09:12:37 in 4 years one of 1k will die of cancer 09:12:50 Hmm 09:13:13 so. 09:13:19 that's a binomial distribution right? 09:13:51 asuming you live 80 years long 09:13:53 > 56(54)*7(8)/9+12 09:13:55 Could not deduce (Num a0) 09:13:55 from the context (Fractional a, 09:13:55 Num a2, 09:13:56 that's 20 trials of 4 years 09:13:59 Ah 09:14:04 Well nvm then 09:14:31 Ill just calculmatate thiss large ass number me self 09:14:33 that's 0.02 if I can calculate right 09:14:38 which means... 09:14:51 you have a 2% chance of dieing due to cancer in your whole lifetime 09:14:59 Well thanks 09:15:03 "dying" 09:15:50 Does that imply that one in fifty people will eventually die from cancer? 09:16:43 18,828 bytes 09:17:00 huh i'd have thought it was higher... 09:17:04 Persecond 09:17:14 Oerjan better not get cancer 09:17:17 Ill sue him 09:17:28 as in, everyone dies, and cancer is one of the major reasons 09:18:28 > 56*(54)*7*(8)/9+12 09:18:29 18828.0 09:18:36 So I was correct 09:18:51 Nihilumbra: i _am_ a cancer hth 09:18:55 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 09:18:56 Nuu 09:19:02 NUU 09:19:12 Ok gnight everyone 09:19:39 Also mroman how much is 18,828 bytes converted to a kilobyte 09:21:01 Tell me.later 09:21:03 > 365 / 7000000 09:21:04 Night 09:21:05 5.214285714285714e-5 09:21:15 e- 09:21:17 I hate this e notation 09:21:28 Do you know what it means 09:21:47 -5.21428571428571400000 09:22:01 > 18828 / 1024 09:22:04 18.38671875 09:22:12 Oh waiii thank u 09:24:46 -!- Nihilumbra has quit. 09:26:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:31:33 e-5 is just *10^5 09:31:39 ^-5 in this case 10:11:52 [wiki] [[Talk:ASCII art-]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43007&oldid=43006 * Vriskanon * (+91) Yes, it it. 10:21:38 Idris has eager evaluation 10:21:38 hm 10:26:07 mroman_: Yes. edwinb likes it better that way. Laziness must be explicit. 10:27:40 unlike beaver evaluation 10:30:08 * Melvar ponders the usefulness of making Lazy a monad. 10:31:17 -!- boily has joined. 10:46:55 hm 10:47:07 I could use my school project and "clean it up" 10:47:11 getting rid of useless stuff 11:00:59 -!- Herbalist has joined. 11:04:34 wow it still works :D 11:11:20 Mainly wanting to get rid of MMU and Cache simulation 11:11:24 and then get rid of the interrupt system 11:11:36 then it will be a plain virtual machine of some sort 11:16:22 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:27:18 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CORRUGATED CHICKEN). 11:31:28 [wiki] [[Talk:ASCII art-]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43008&oldid=43007 * 160.85.232.168 * (+115) 11:35:21 mroman_: oh, what are you doing? 11:41:00 My pre-bachelor thesis involved designing a computer and write an emulator for it 11:41:19 including assembler, disassembler 11:41:27 I see 11:41:37 and MMU and CPU Cache Emulation 11:42:05 CPU Cache Emulation makes it rather slow :) 11:42:18 sure 11:43:22 So I thought I might get rid of superfluous features 11:43:51 but now I'm already at thinking "wait.. what am I doing it for?" 11:45:43 as far as programming projects go I can't really do anything useful anymore 11:47:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:56:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:24:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:27:16 [wiki] [[Talk:ASCII art-]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43009&oldid=43008 * Vriskanon * (+182) 12:28:59 ... 12:29:02 whatever 12:32:29 [wiki] [[CalScript]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43010&oldid=42935 * Vriskanon * (+8) Bold, typos 12:34:16 [wiki] [[ASCII art-]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43011&oldid=42998 * Vriskanon * (+7) Bold, typos 12:38:35 SLOBOL was created in 2015 12:38:42 but was mentioned in an article back in 1984? 12:38:46 *1982 12:38:51 that can't be right? 12:39:00 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Lesser_known_programming_languages 12:49:24 uhm 12:50:35 mroman_: the original article was just a list of names 12:50:44 and one-sentence descriptions 12:50:52 some languages have since been created based on the descriptions 12:50:56 but the descriptions came first 12:50:57 does that makes sense? 12:53:53 yes 12:57:06 yeah 12:58:01 Does rust's new return &T? 12:58:09 i.e. a reference 12:58:20 I think I'm finally beginning to understand why some problem that looked like it might have a trivial solution but I couldn't find such a solution actually probably can't have a trivial solution of the form I was looking at. 12:58:41 mroman_: rust's box normally returns Box, which is a different sort of reference which can be borrowed to produce an &T 12:58:55 it can't return an &T directly because it'd be unclear what you were borrowing from 12:59:28 Arc::new(5)? 12:59:32 is that &Arc? 13:00:08 that's presumably just Arc 13:00:14 so it's a value? 13:00:18 rather than a reference? 13:00:26 it's a reference, but it's not a borrowed reference 13:00:30 & is for borrowed references specifically 13:00:41 you can borrow an Arc to produce an &T 13:01:01 so 13:01:12 the difference between borrowed references and references in general is, when you borrow a reference you have to give it back (i.e. free/unborrow it by the end of the block) 13:01:21 If I write a function that accepts some &Arc then foo(Arc::new(5)) wouldn't type check? 13:01:22 things like Box and Rc and Arc and Gc have other rules 13:01:36 Oh great, the good part is that the result that shows this appears in a 2013 article, so I might not have actually known about it when I started to think about it (though I could still have had suspicions). 13:01:51 I'm not sure, you'd need to ask someone who's better at Rust 13:01:58 I understand the basic concepts, but not the details 13:02:16 Yay! 13:03:07 @oeis 4, 14, 86, 782, 9332 13:03:08 Sequence not found. 13:03:11 hmph 13:04:03 -!- evalj has joined. 13:04:05 [ 2%~ 4 14 86 782 9332 13:04:06 b_jonas: 2 7 43 391 4666 13:04:17 @oeis 2, 7, 43, 391, 4666 13:04:18 Sequence not found. 13:04:45 @oeis 4, 41, 68, 287, 2339 13:04:46 Sequence not found. 13:05:32 b_jonas: I have good reason to believe that that sequence is O(n^n) 13:05:55 wait, oeis has surpassed 250000 sequences/ 13:05:56 wow 13:06:02 that's really large 13:15:54 i got A256001 just the other day 13:16:40 -!- lleu has joined. 13:16:40 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 13:16:40 -!- lleu has joined. 13:19:04 -!- lleu has quit (Excess Flood). 13:19:22 -!- lleu has joined. 13:19:22 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 13:19:22 -!- lleu has joined. 13:19:35 I see 13:31:32 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:32:58 b_jonas: what are you counting? 13:33:05 -!- Weloxux has joined. 13:33:29 int-e: I'm not counting. ais523 has pasted some sequence. 13:34:07 any ideas here as to what it is, btw? I was wondering if it was known 13:34:22 came up at work, but out of something that would fit right into #esoteric 13:34:22 no idea 13:36:00 Meaniwhile this is the article I'm looking at: 13:36:04 Nice algebraic topology result: Martin Cadek, Marek Krcal, Jiri Matousek, Lukas Vokrinek, Uli Wagner, "Extendability of continuous maps is undecidable", arxiv.org/abs/1302.2370 13:36:16 probably unrelated to what ais is doig 13:36:36 hmm 13:37:03 come to think of it there's probably a 1 and 2 before that, less sure though 13:37:11 ais' must be connected to decimal digits, for his second sequence is the map digitreversal of the first one 13:37:30 I only sent one sequence? 13:37:43 it's mroman_ who digitreversed it 13:37:51 (and I'd be very surprised if it were connected to decimal) 13:38:00 ah 13:38:04 right, sorry 13:38:28 so basically what it is, is 13:38:45 if I apply a mockingbird to a church numeral with side effects, it's the number of times that those side effects get evaluated 13:38:56 when I give a couple of arguments to the resulting function 13:39:11 um, which one has side effects when? 13:39:47 the church numeral, and upon seeing two arguments 13:40:01 i.e. let c2 f x = print "test"; f (f x) 13:40:18 hmm 13:41:53 (and the mockingbird is "let m f = f f", as usual) 13:42:05 or, well, most languages I know of explode if you give them mockingbirds 13:42:24 I've been using one to test my type inference algorithm at work, the results aren't really pretty 13:42:29 :t \f -> f f 13:42:30 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: r1 ~ r1 -> r 13:42:30 Relevant bindings include f :: r1 -> r (bound at :1:2) 13:42:30 In the first argument of ‘f’, namely ‘f’ 13:42:42 You can't mock a mockingbord. 13:42:45 how about weakly typed languages? 13:42:46 *bird 13:42:51 what's idris-bot's prefi? 13:42:52 *prefix? 13:42:54 @prefixes 13:42:54 Unknown command, try @list 13:42:57 ^prefixes 13:42:57 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 13:43:02 like, I dunno, perl 13:43:06 ( :t \f -> f f 13:43:07 (input):1:7: error: expected: ",", 13:43:07 ":", "=>", "impossible" 13:43:07 :t \f -> f f 13:43:07 ^ 13:43:09 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 13:43:16 it might still get into a loop consuming unbounded memory of course 13:43:18 err, I can't rememer how to idris 13:43:23 try to perl 13:43:28 I think you remember how to perl 13:43:31 Perl can mockingbird just fine, IIRC 13:43:43 sort of 13:43:51 sub mockingbird { my $x = shift; &$x(&$x); } 13:44:05 ais523: not quite 13:44:16 this is because the mockingbird is a perfectly well-defined function, it just doesn't have a sensible type in most type systems 13:44:20 you mean &$x($x) instead of &$x(&$x) 13:44:50 oh, right, i do 13:44:52 *I do 13:45:10 you can tell I've spent the last few days in languages which don't have separate concepts of "function" and "function pointer" :-) 13:45:18 &$x without parenthesis is some crazy stuff that you almost never want to write, except maybe as some optimization, and is usually a mistake beginners make when they don't do that 13:45:31 (OK, /technically/ you can construct a reference to a function in OCaml if you really want to, but it rarely has advantages over an actual function) 13:45:43 sub mockingbird { my $x = shift; $x->($x); } 13:45:47 happy? :-) 13:45:57 yeah 13:45:58 also I'm pretty sure I've found legitimate uses for &$x 13:46:07 but in such cases, what you /really/ want is often "goto &$x" 13:46:07 oh sure, you might have 13:46:14 you write crazy optimized code sometimes 13:46:24 Perl is so unoptimized internally 13:46:28 @type id id 13:46:29 a -> a 13:46:32 but it's really a beginner trap that shouldn't have such a simple syntax 13:46:43 b_jonas: it's because it was the old syntax 13:46:48 @type let f x = x x in f id 13:46:49 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t2 ~ t2 -> t1 13:46:49 Relevant bindings include 13:46:49 x :: t2 -> t1 (bound at :1:7) 13:46:51 sure 13:46:57 it's all for historical reasons 13:47:11 (and the fact that it's the old syntax is, of course, the reason it's worse than the new one) 13:47:24 um 13:47:27 to be fair the & syntax is hugely more logical than the syntax without hte & 13:47:35 I actually prefer sigil dereference syntax than arrow dereference 13:47:39 I use arrows only for method calls 13:47:48 @type let f x = x x; f :: (a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> (a -> a) in f id 13:47:50 Couldn't match expected type ‘(a1 -> a1) -> a1 -> a1’ 13:47:50 with actual type ‘a1’ 13:47:50 ‘a1’ is a rigid type variable bound by 13:47:51 even when it gives ugly lines starting with ${${${$ 13:48:09 oh silly me 13:48:15 @type let f x = x x; f :: (a -> a) -> (a -> a) in f id 13:48:16 Couldn't match expected type ‘a1 -> a1’ with actual type ‘a1’ 13:48:16 ‘a1’ is a rigid type variable bound by 13:48:16 the type signature for f :: (a1 -> a1) -> a1 -> a1 13:48:26 and I very rarely use implicit arrow between indexes too 13:48:37 I just use the full dereference syntax basically 13:48:53 b_jonas: I made a concious decision to move to implicit arrow in aimake a few months ago 13:49:15 I see 13:49:18 basically because I was chaining /so many/ dereferences that it made more code fit onto the screen, and if you're using it that much it's easy to get used to 13:50:56 I see 13:51:13