00:00:02 o.O NT was released before 95 00:00:06 Taneb: if you solve the Chu space crossword puzzle at , you could win $2000 from Vaughan Pratt 00:00:20 Taneb: that's enough for air fare to berkeley, where you can have poutine 00:00:27 Sgello_. NT was released before??? 00:00:37 shachaf, this sounds like a plan which doesn't have any flaws whatsoever 00:01:01 the plan with no flaw is not the true plan. 00:01:20 Taneb invent the true plan 00:01:28 Yeah, NT was released in '93. 00:03:03 There's not *much* reason Windows 95 couldn't have used NTFS (aside from the obvious one of "oh sweet jesus we don't want to change more than we have to, cause Windows software be crazy.") 00:03:09 I wonder if NTFS isn't older than NT, or if it was only known as HPFS at that time 00:03:20 for a true plan, you should ask Jim from darths & droids, unfortunately he's also in california so it won't help here. 00:03:21 NTFS is a fork of HPFS. 00:03:25 NTFS probably required proper OS features 00:03:33 like, virtual memory perhaps? 00:03:34 shachaf, is that asking whether the language defined has countable members? 00:04:04 olsner: Win95 has virtual memory. 00:04:28 Taneb, imho maybe 00:04:36 Also, I doubt it. You could quite reasonably write an aftermarket NTFS for DOS thing. :) 00:05:36 yeah :) I meant more that the code for NTFS required ... stuff, not that the file system itself somehow does 00:06:14 (well, I don't think it's technically a language in the infinite case, but...) 00:06:49 I think the Win95 installer wants scratch space 00:07:47 I don't think the Win98 installer DOS has format.exe 00:09:15 Taneb: whoa whoa whoa 00:09:20 Proposed solution (March 23, 2015) 00:09:28 i never saw that 00:14:04 Ooh the Win98 installer formats the disk automatically, I could try that 00:16:47 I think the little "This is why windows is great" things is tied to fily copy progress 00:16:51 They go by too fast to read 00:17:18 Sgeo_: what are you trying to do here? 00:17:40 Wanted to install Windows 95 to a VM. Gave up for a bit so installing Windows 98 to a VM 00:17:53 Glad I did because the 98 installer will do what I need for 95, I think 00:19:59 -!- toxolotl has joined. 00:20:18 OK 00:20:19 `relcome toxolotl 00:20:27 toxolotl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 00:20:40 I was worried that it was something insane like needing a disk formatted as FAT16 and Windows 95 was the only program old enough to do it 00:21:07 I remember when we only had the Windows 95 upgrade edition. 00:21:19 So we'd need to put in the Windows 3.11 floppy in order to install. 00:21:28 Sgeo_: with a windows 9x VM you could get ms comic chat going (though it does tend to crash on normal IRC traffic) 00:21:41 Or maybe it was both Windows 95 and Windows 98 upgrade editions? 00:21:45 It was a big mess, anyway. 00:22:28 ais523, I was dumb enough to grant a program on the WIndows 95 disk (that I don't know where it came from so might be genuine) admin on my real 8.1 machine in hopes that it would work. It bluescreened me, and hopefully was just a bad compatibility issue and not actual malware from 2007 00:22:36 *so might not be genuine 00:23:14 Although if you were to plant malware in a pirated OS, I think you'd go for the OS itself, not in the CDEXPO program 00:23:27 Sgeo_: if it is actual malware from 2007, then any modern antivirus should be able to find it 00:23:55 also, why would malware from 2007 end up on a windows 95 disk? 00:24:18 I obtained the .iso file in 2007. I don't remember where I obtained it from. 00:26:24 ais523: Literally anything that can do FAT can do FAT 16 though. 00:26:27 Yay Win95 setup wrking 00:26:50 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 00:26:56 pikhq: including formatting programs? 00:26:59 Fun fact: FAT32 has a *minimum* volume size of 32MB. 00:27:23 Eh, Win95 wants a "20-digit Product Identification Number" 00:27:58 Sgeo_: that's printed on the CD case, I think 00:28:07 or on the computer 00:28:27 As a consequence of that, pretty much anything has to do FAT16 just to handle the full range of volume sizes. 00:28:50 what about ext2? can you sensibly format a floppy like that? 00:29:12 Yes. 00:29:39 FAT32 is unique in having a minimum volume size (beyond "large enough to fit fundamental data structures") 00:29:57 (also, I have *done* such a floppy) 00:30:35 What's slightly trickier would be a FAT12 formatter. 00:30:48 Though IIRC Windows' formatter and mkdosfs both do that. 00:30:50 I didn't know there was a FAT12 00:31:16 floppy disks 00:31:34 As well as very (very) old hard drives. 00:31:46 max size 20 mb 00:32:12 But yeah, floppies in FAT are FAT12 as a rule. 00:33:41 Somewhat unrelatedly, fuck ExFAT. 00:34:32 what's wrong with exfat? nobody ever tells me 00:34:56 MS asserts unspecified patents on it making it impractical to implement in a sane fashion. 00:35:24 ... Erm. In a sane fashion for many vendors. 00:36:21 huh, Perl now has a warning for trying to create an infinitely long string using syntax like "a" x "Inf" 00:36:27 I wonder what that did before 00:36:40 IMO it should just create an infinitely long string, but I guess I'm in the minority here 00:37:06 why is linux ntfs support so slow? 00:37:36 i mean, write speeds 00:38:16 Linux NTFS write support is relatively new, that might be related but I'm not sure 00:38:50 Are we talking the kernel NTFS or the FUSE one? 00:39:07 whichever ubuntu 15.04 uses 00:39:15 Probably the FUSE one then. 00:39:22 huh, I would have guessed kernel 00:39:24 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 00:47:03 "Code like /$a[/ used to read the next line of input and treat it as though it came immediately after the opening bracket." 00:47:07 wow that's a weird bug 00:47:11 sort-of like Shellshock 00:47:31 I wonder if it works in interpolated code? I'm guessing no without an eval, in which case it's unexpolitable 00:48:08 oh, unexploitable anyway; it lets bits of the code you can't control affect bits of the code you can, which is the opposite of exploitable, really 00:48:19 most you could potentially do is get hold of what one line of source looks like 00:48:54 I have a chart of OEM keys, but I don't know which version of Windows 95 this is 00:49:31 If the bits of code you can't control attempts to process the bits of code you can, could htat be a problem? 00:50:05 Sgeo_: What are the options of versions? 00:50:22 `perl -e print 33 x ~3 00:50:23 panic: memory wrap at -e line 1. 00:50:43 Windows 95 OEM Version, Windows 95 OEM Version (02) ... (16) 00:50:46 apparently that's actually the intended output 00:50:49 It's definitely an OEM version 00:54:33 I think they all work 00:54:36 `perl -e "${< Can't find string terminator "X" anywhere before EOF at -e line 1. 00:54:45 `perl --version 00:54:46 \ This is perl 5, version 14, subversion 2 (v5.14.2) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ (with 88 registered patches, see perl -V for more detail) \ \ Copyright 1987-2011, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit 00:54:51 aha, too early to crash 00:55:24 "System error Cannot read from drive A" 00:55:27 `perl -e s/${<>{}}// 00:55:28 syntax error at -e line 1, near "<>{" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. 00:55:39 wait 00:55:42 `perl -e s/${<>{})// 00:55:43 syntax error at -e line 1, near "<>{" \ Missing right curly or square bracket at -e line 1, within pattern \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. 00:55:53 what a bizarre line of code 00:56:00 although it's managing not to crash 00:58:10 So now two CD drives attached, Win98 in first one, Win95 in second 01:01:03 Windows Protection Error 01:02:31 I think I've written a (deliberately bad) fizzbuzz which runs in O(n^5) time 01:03:13 ! 01:03:58 No, only O(n^4) I think 01:05:02 Taneb: is it plausible-looking code, or does it have no obvious scope for optimization? 01:05:21 ais523, it's plausible code written by a Haskell beginner 01:05:40 Who is new to programming 01:05:52 There is so much obvious room for optimization 01:06:29 hmm, now I'm wondering what the computational order of a Prolog FizzBuzz that doesn't use "is" is 01:06:34 written in the most obvious way 01:06:35 Putting an execution cap of 20% worked 01:06:38 probably O(n^2) 01:06:49 So I guess the CPU's too fast. There is a patch for it, not sure if I should bother 01:08:39 Experimentally, it seems roughly O(n^3.3) 01:11:35 Which seems odd 01:11:48 compiler optimizations? cache effects? 01:12:03 Maybe... 01:12:06 * Sgeo_ puts down Win95 for now 01:12:39 I don't want to run this with -O0, though, it took 4 minutes for n=3000 (no options to GHC), and I'm running it with n=4000 now 01:13:33 Why is a restart required between partitioning and formatting? 01:15:01 since whe? 01:15:04 *when 01:15:09 ais523, I'm just surprised it's a non-integer exponent 01:15:38 Looking at the program I think it's probably quartic 01:15:43 noninteger exponents aren't that uncommon are they? 01:16:05 Phantom_Hoover, I've never really encountered them? 01:16:32 i remember some Big Important Algorithm having one but not what it was 01:16:33 4^.5? 01:16:45 Lyka, since DOS or Windows98's DOS or something 01:16:50 an obvious practical example though is the trace of a matrix with n entries 01:17:17 Phantom_Hoover: matrix multiplication? 01:17:17 though you normally use side length as the n with matrix algorithms... 01:17:54 x^(y/z) = (z_root(x))^y 01:17:56 oerjan, probably that, yeah 01:19:18 "The current O(n^k) algorithm with the lowest known exponent k is a generalization of the Coppersmith–Winograd algorithm that has an asymptotic complexity of O(n^2.3728639), by François Le Gall." 01:19:41 although some people suspect the limit is actually 2 01:19:46 iirc 01:19:47 what does "polynomial time" mean? 01:20:00 Lyka: in time bounded by a polynomial of input size 01:20:35 O(n^k) execution time, more or less 01:21:29 you can always use n^k because any other polynomial has one of those as an upper bound (once n > 1) 01:22:06 (note n is the input size and k is a constant) 01:26:57 -!- Hallucinate_ has joined. 01:27:15 `welcome Hallucinate_ 01:27:16 Hallucinate_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 01:27:28 ais523, http://lpaste.net/4279646507705040896 is the source if you want to look 01:28:13 let's see 01:28:19 isFizz and isBuzz are O(n) 01:28:29 Taneb: you think a newbie could manage to get NPlusKPatterns working? i guess e might be using hugs. 01:28:48 oerjan, it's in a bunch of older tutorials 01:29:12 Taneb: haha at that mapM_ 01:29:15 that's just really blatant :-) 01:29:42 ais523, it's the kind of mistake I could imagine myself having made 01:30:13 what I'm confused by is if the ++ in the fizzbuzz function "stacks" with the isFizz and isBuzz being inefficient 01:30:25 the long list is on the left, so this is O(n^2) 01:30:40 but I think it leads to a combined O(n^2) for fizzbuzz, not O(n^3) 01:30:41 -!- Hallucinate_ has changed nick to Hallucinate. 01:30:46 I think ++ needs to go through the left, and to know the length of the left it has to do isFizz and isBuzz 01:31:16 oh I see 01:31:24 ais523, yeah, and then the last is O(n), and it does it n times 01:31:29 what's wrong about the mapM_ 01:31:29 you have the same length in both branches of the case 01:31:40 ais523, depends if GHC spots that or not 01:31:59 oerjan, the function being mapped is what's wrong 01:32:16 oerjan: Taneb already has a function to generate a list of fizzbuzzes, but he's creating a list of each possible length and then mapping last over it 01:32:22 And that 01:32:41 mapM_ itself is a perfectly reasonable function, but that use of it is ridiculous 01:32:52 or, well, it's actually one of the comonad laws on List, if you read the lists backwards 01:33:12 hm right 01:33:33 also, i think that use of ++ is O(n^2) overhead 01:33:45 right associative 01:34:38 comonad laws on List? 01:34:54 You mean the comonad in Mon you get from the adjunction? 01:35:11 shachaf: List as a comonad, one of the comonad operations (M x -> x) is head, and the other (M x -> M M x) is a list of all suffixes of the input list 01:35:19 I don't know what you mean, I'm at my phone and missed falls the conversation. 01:35:23 err, this works on nonempty lists only 01:35:28 Oh, noon-empty lists. 01:35:44 Taneb's doing basically that in reverse: prefixes and last 01:36:06 What's the comonad I described called? 01:36:32 I'm not aware of a name for it 01:36:37 or even knew it existed 01:40:21 -!- Hallucinate has quit (Quit: Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm). 01:40:23 since it's in Mon it only works if Monoid x, i take 01:40:37 M = [] 01:40:49 (M x -> x) would be mconcat 01:40:53 :t mconcat 01:40:54 Monoid a => [a] -> a 01:41:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: EPICHOROID CHICKEN). 01:41:32 oerjan, I think what would was described would be mconcat . reverse 01:41:36 (M x -> M (M x)), what's that 01:41:52 Taneb: i don't think shachaf included reversal 01:42:13 oerjan, ais523 said if you read the lists backwards, which I was trying to include 01:42:17 Anyway... 01:42:28 Taneb: shachaf's comment wasn't directly relevant to your code 01:44:25 OK 01:44:55 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 01:44:58 So, what's the verdict on the complexity of my fizzbuzz? 01:45:32 hm 01:45:54 only the last element gets isFizz etc. evaluated 01:46:03 Booting from CD into HD broke the VM... but blue screened even when I got rid of that 01:46:09 oerjan, are you sure? 01:46:56 oh wait right 01:47:02 NO 01:47:06 hth 01:47:31 oerjan: map (:[])? 01:48:25 shachaf: either that or just (:[])? i cannot wrap my brain around that much. 01:48:47 oerjan, the core for the program hasn't optimized the isFizz and isBuzz checks out 01:49:04 For non-last elements 01:50:27 ais523, depends if GHC spots that or not <-- i think because of bottom, ghc cannot legally do that 01:51:09 oerjan: can't it infer that isFizz and isBuzz are total? 01:51:23 or is it possible to create an infinitely large Integer in Haskell? 01:51:41 ais523, firstly, they take Int, not Integer 01:51:48 or even knew it existed <-- every adjunction between two categories gives a monad in one, and comonad in the other. 01:51:53 Also, if they took Integer, they would be undefined with n = -1 01:52:30 oh, good points 01:52:47 after a while doing esolangs, you kind-of forget negative numbers exist 01:52:49 they're so unnatural 01:53:30 `addquote after a while doing esolangs, you kind-of forget negative numbers exist they're so unnatural 01:53:34 1241) after a while doing esolangs, you kind-of forget negative numbers exist they're so unnatural 01:53:58 wow, I didn't even realise that was a pun until you `addquoted it 01:54:10 Even better 01:54:28 or is it possible to create an infinitely large Integer in Haskell? <-- nope, only bottom. 01:55:19 what would have been embarrassing would be if I'd missed the pun altogether 01:55:21 anyway, time to go home 01:56:32 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:58:31 ok, F U -> I, that's mconcat. I -> U F, that's (:[]) 01:59:27 Right. And you have FU->FUFU = F eta 01:59:46 So it maps (:[]) 01:59:54 This is pretty awkward on a phone. 02:01:06 F I U = F U -> F U F U = F (U F) U 02:01:27 /////////////////////////////////////// 02:01:27 + 02:01:28 so it should be F (:[]) U in a sense 02:01:31 ops 02:02:14 Yes, but (:[]) is polymorphic hth 02:03:50 it's just that my brain doesn't have quite the power to convince itself of the last step 02:05:46 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 02:08:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:08:20 -!- variable has joined. 02:09:13 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 02:09:45 -!- Herbalist has joined. 02:09:50 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:13:12 -!- variable has quit (Client Quit). 02:15:57 -!- variable has joined. 02:17:11 I'm going to go to sleep now, goodnight! 02:33:23 what's the function that turns a number like 77 (7 * 11) to 60 (6 * 10) ? 02:36:36 i mean from (x*y), where x and y are prime, to ((x-1)*(y-1)) 02:37:03 not sure if it has a name 02:37:36 oh wait 02:37:51 the euler totient function 02:38:23 however, if a prime can occur more than once, you need to be more specific. 02:38:38 or well 02:41:12 your definition isn't very clear on what to do for numbers _not_ of that form. 02:41:20 no idea 02:41:55 all i remembered involved semiprimes 02:41:57 but if you have two different primes x and y, the totient function fits. 02:42:13 and is what you need for RSA and the like 02:43:35 * Lyka is glad his "big brother", the NSA, is "supposed" to stop watching this channel... 02:44:00 this channel is publicly logged hth 02:44:39 (if you don't know what i mean by "Big Brother", see "1984") 02:44:43 oh 02:44:46 shit 02:44:57 i've read that book 02:45:18 long ago 02:45:23 i got cofused after the first sentence 02:45:28 *confused 02:45:36 but i read the wikipedia entry 02:45:48 for what 02:45:57 1984 02:46:35 "It was a bright cold day in april when the clocks struck 13." 02:46:47 i think that was the first line 02:47:16 got confused 02:51:11 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [). 02:53:29 * Lyka is currently recovering from being drugged by his doctors with cognitive-inhibiting side-effects for four years before it got bad enough that he forgot that his name belonged to him and was not just a nickname. 02:54:28 -!- bb010g has joined. 02:55:58 before i started on that medication, I used to shake like crazy. Sgeo probably reembers. 02:56:24 *remembers 03:02:44 what's the opposite of an extension? 03:02:59 contraction? 03:04:59 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:06:07 what kind of extension 03:07:02 reduction 03:21:40 oerjan: like an extension to a language 03:22:09 what's the term for a version of a language which removes, rather than adds, features 03:22:37 Apple? 03:23:24 heh 03:40:13 restriction? 03:40:36 Subset? 03:40:36 oren: ^ 03:54:38 night all 03:54:49 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 04:02:05 -!- hilquias has joined. 04:02:15 -!- hilquias has quit (Changing host). 04:02:16 -!- hilquias has joined. 04:19:05 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:19:34 -!- Wright has joined. 04:19:48 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:35:49 -!- password2 has joined. 05:02:26 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:13:25 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka|Phone. 05:14:09 hi 05:44:24 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:52:06 -!- Welo has joined. 06:04:13 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:10:51 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:25:01 night all 06:25:10 -!- Lyka|Phone has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 06:34:41 Lyka|Away: what kind of drugs did they put you on and what for? 06:35:26 * Taneb hello 06:57:14 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 07:03:26 The OTHER fizzbuzz I wrote, features a 250 character type signature 07:04:09 Consisting only of functions between type variables and a three-character type synonym 07:04:21 ((Num -> Num -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n) -> Num -> Num -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n) -> Num -> Num -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n 07:06:57 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:07:43 (with type Num = forall a. (a -> a) -> a -> a) 07:15:19 Oh.. of course.. 07:17:46 ? 07:24:06 I'm afraid to ask what that type signature does in your fizzbuzz 07:26:15 It's a fixed point combinator 07:39:29 :t fix (?f :: m -> m -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n) 07:39:31 Unbound implicit parameter 07:39:31 (?f::m1 07:39:31 -> m1 07:40:02 :t \f -> fix (f :: m -> m -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n) 07:40:04 Couldn't match expected type ‘m1 07:40:04 -> m1 07:40:04 -> (s1 -> n1 -> n1) 07:40:35 :t \f -> fix (f :: (m -> m -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n) -> (m -> m -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n)) 07:40:38 Couldn't match expected type ‘(m1 07:40:38 -> m1 07:40:38 -> (s1 -> n1 -> n1) 07:40:49 :t fix ?f :: m -> m -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n 07:40:51 Unbound implicit parameter 07:40:51 (?f::(m1 07:40:51 -> m1 07:40:53 :) 07:40:56 *:( 07:41:12 ):) 07:58:32 -!- edwardk has joined. 08:10:47 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 08:39:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:05:11 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 09:11:04 Taben's always abusing Haskell. 09:11:08 *Taneb 09:11:17 fungot: Do you abuse Haskell? 09:11:17 mroman_: are we also trying.' automated and must be in the form of the continue button. norris is a month.... in error! 09:15:03 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 09:16:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:20:21 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 09:22:22 -!- augur has joined. 10:30:08 -!- boily has joined. 10:30:33 ^echo > () 10:30:33 > () > () 10:30:37 False 10:30:58 > text "fungot" 10:30:58 Jafet: probably get an inventory of the right of the best to keep the california power market. 10:31:01 fungot 10:45:25 fungot? 10:45:25 boily: right where they left what i 10:45:37 fungot: good! 10:45:37 boily: know where the meeting on the construction industry."? 11 am. 10:46:10 fungot: no. but I got some obscure fuzzy meeting Thursday afternoon with our QC VP. 10:46:10 boily: next to equity. pete wilson both the financial deal that was from the new more efficient. 10:46:23 fungot: oh do you know anything about the calculus of constructions? 10:46:23 int-e: for that reason, the work of the sheet that you send to the top the ibm and america two countries separated and an expected time frame. 10:46:29 fungot: pete wilson. I'll remember. her name was pete wilson. 10:46:29 boily: bond issuance- 12b not enough that the business of new/ existing application systems or business trip you wish to have quicker to put you on the same for the other susan scott...i'm with nat gas spread in 2001 that will not let 10:46:50 int-ello. calculus of construction? 10:48:14 The Calculus of Constructions (CoC) is a type theory created by Thierry Coquand. ... I'm also hearing it's the basis of Coq. 10:49:33 but I asked fun‍got because it mentioned the construction industry. 10:50:31 fungot: well? 10:50:32 boily: they partially to increase. moritzburke associate oakland. dte energy trading and the will of the california legislature. 10:50:44 oh fun. x⃐y⃑ 10:51:13 and more fun. a⃖⃗ 10:53:06 it works c⃬⃑lockwise and c⃬⃐ounterclockwise 10:53:23 Constructive chicken. 10:53:29 except I messed up the arrow below the first c 10:53:45 ? 10:53:52 `unicode x⃐y⃑ 10:53:56 U+0078 LATIN SMALL LETTER X \ UTF-8: 78 UTF-16BE: 0078 Decimal: x \ x (X) \ Uppercase: U+0058 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+20D0 COMBINING LEFT HARPOON ABOVE \ UTF-8: e2 83 90 UTF-16BE: 20d0 Decimal: ⃐ \ ⃐ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Combining: 230 (Abov 10:54:14 `chicken harpooned 10:54:15 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: chicken: not found 10:54:18 ... 10:54:24 `CHICKEN HARPOONED 10:54:24 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: CHICKEN: not found 10:54:29 beuh. 10:56:01 Hah. The font that gucharmap uses gets this wrong... "combining rightwards harpoon with barb downwards" points to the left. 10:56:28 maybe this is better anyway. c⃔ c⃕ 10:57:08 Hope they don't ever handle a real harpoon 10:57:26 harpoon should be double-ended, so you can't misorient them. 11:05:25 Are all C struct types with fields of all the same names and matching types matching types, or do they have to have the same struct name if they have a struct name at all? 11:08:47 `cc struct a {int x;}; struct b{int x;}; struct a a = (b){}; 11:08:54 /tmp/a.c:1:52: error: ‘b’ undeclared here (not in a function) \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 11:08:56 `cc struct a {int x;}; struct b{int x;}; struct a a = (struct b){}; 11:08:57 /tmp/a.c:1:59: error: invalid initializer \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 11:08:59 boily: somehow that made me think of these devices, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drevnosti_RG_v3_ill130c_-_Caltrop.jpg 11:09:04 (nope) 11:09:40 `cc typedef struct {int x;} a; typedef struct {int x;} b; a a = (b){}; // probably not either 11:09:41 /tmp/a.c:1:57: error: ‘a’ redeclared as different kind of symbol \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 11:09:51 `cc typedef struct {int x;} a; typedef struct {int x;} b; a x = (b){}; 11:09:52 /tmp/a.c:1:43: error: invalid initializer \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 11:10:15 `cc typedef struct {int x;} a; a x = (a){}; 11:10:16 /tmp/a.c:1:16: error: initializer element is not constant \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 11:11:06 int-e: ah, the safety harpoon with extra spikes to be sure you skewer your prey properly. 11:15:58 Melvar: I don't think "matching type" is a C term at all, but "two structure -- types declared in separate translation units are compatible if their tags and members satisfy the following requirements: If one is declared with a tag, the other shall be declared with the same tag. If both are completed anywhere within their respective translation units, then the following additional requirements ... 11:16:04 ... apply: [member stuff]." 11:17:05 fizzie: I didn’t know what the C term was. Thank you. 11:27:43 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SELFREFERENTIAL CHICKEN). 11:29:00 -!- Welo has joined. 11:30:12 `poulet misremembered 11:30:13 MISREMEMBERED CHICKEN 11:32:38 Melvar: Note also the requirement of two separate translation units. After a struct { int a; int b; } x; struct { int a; int b; } y; in a single translation unit, the types of a and b are not compatible, AIUI. 11:32:53 Er, the types of x and y, I mean. 11:38:01 `poulet dismembered 11:38:02 DISMEMBERED CHICKEN 11:38:22 `poulet 11:38:53 No output. 11:41:32 `` ls /usr/share/dict 11:41:33 No output. 11:42:47 -!- lleu has joined. 11:42:47 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 11:42:47 -!- lleu has joined. 11:43:05 so does hackego have a word list? 11:43:53 `word 11:44:00 ralminisialobiitatifiiiscerk 11:44:02 `` (cd wisdom; ls) | grep ed$ | wc 11:44:03 0 0 0 11:44:13 `words 11:44:19 positurial 11:45:39 `` find / -name words 2>/dev/null 11:46:10 No output. 11:47:02 oh well. > echo $(grep ed$ /usr/share/dict/words | shuf -n 10) 11:47:02 randomized snaffled encased enlightened respired ransomed sunned appealed endowed unclogged 11:47:07 (love the first one) 11:48:20