2015-06-01: 00:06:09 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 00:10:22 so, magic 8-ball program came out to 2131 commands. 00:11:23 each command being exactly 4 characters 00:12:05 and i don't understand a word of it 00:13:53 sounds like magic 00:15:18 the three-command structure A1??C210M+00 is very common 00:15:43 the ?? being a byte in hex 00:16:05 knowing that, take a guess what it does... 00:16:37 i mean, what it is for 00:17:58 yeah, it has to do with memory. 00:19:22 store ?? in var 1, copy var 1 to t-memory location contained in var 0, increment var 0 by one 00:19:48 i used a shell script i made to generate most of this 00:21:34 at most 24 of the 2131 commands used involve things other than storing 8-ball answers to memory 00:22:45 21*32*3 is the amount of pure "if command is run, copy something into memory" 00:23:29 2016 of 2131 00:23:33 is that 00:24:29 it only uses 32 bytes of t-memory 00:25:06 (20 answers, one info screen, 16x2 lcd) 00:27:35 question: as i need an assignment, give me a complex program idea to make that can use only a 16x2 character-only lcd and 5 buttons that are multiplexed so that only one can be pressed at any time 00:28:42 that's not a very large screen 00:29:41 these are arduino unos with lcd keypad shields and with programs being run directly from sd 00:30:38 4 bytes of command buffering in the programming language i designed to be interpreted 00:30:54 A side-scroller where you move in four directions and shoot a gun 00:31:45 side scroller with a 2-line-high display, no custom chars? 00:32:34 32 1-byte vars/active function, 256-byte global array 00:32:36 dammit google why are you showing only the norwegian wikipedia result 00:34:33 i am wondering if that screen would be just large enough for backgammon 00:34:48 hmm...i can modify the interpreter to allow for a 3x1 grid as an alternate mode for each character point on the screen 00:35:02 so 16x6 00:35:26 if all points are in graphis mode 00:35:45 i've done thins like this before 00:37:20 8 max custom chars on the device, but the interpeter i wrote doesn't yet have the commands to configure them 00:38:53 20x14 graphics display and 12x8 text display side by side is the best i can do 00:40:37 5x7 chars with a single pixel width between each pixel 00:42:16 (i mean backgammon with numbers showing field contents) 00:42:24 might actually be able to do a rogue-like game 00:43:44 the system can run up to five different games on a card (five buttons) so i will try for both backgammon and rogue-ike 00:43:47 ais523: I bet the people in #esoteric would love BF Joust. 00:44:05 tswett: I was hoping so, but they aren't interested in it today 00:44:08 at least some of them aren't 00:44:10 are you? 00:44:26 brb 00:44:27 Sorta. I want to write a Haskell EDSL for creating BF Joust programs. 00:44:32 ah right 00:44:42 I'm in a NetHack tournament right now 00:44:54 but when I'm less busy I'll be happy to give anyone who cares strategy advice 01:00:40 there is going to be so little memory left for non-global variables on my arduino uno that i hope the new version of the interpreter will actually start 01:00:57 let alone run 01:12:13 So Norwegian has two written forms, aye? Bokmal and Nynorsk. 01:12:37 Are they different orthographies, with different spelling and pronunciation rules? 01:13:29 Presumably the syntax and vocabulary are pretty much identical. I think I saw on Wikipedia that there are a few suffixes where the Bokmal and Nynorsk equivalents look completely different. 01:14:02 And those, I assume, would just be considered different spellings and pronunciations of the same affixes. 01:16:35 If you're writing down actual speech, do you use the forms typical of the written form you're using, or the forms that the person actually said? 01:16:43 given the 'bok' meaning book, I assume it is similar to the way the KJV of the bible has thou and thee and didst etc. 01:18:11 except that people don't write new books in 16c english 01:18:35 but they could, if they wanted to 01:19:53 or are you saying that people also speak bokmål? 01:23:29 hmm... according to wikipedia, nynorsk is the minority lect 01:24:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_language_conflict 01:29:51 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:31:39 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 01:45:28 tswett: no, it's not just orthography. and technically pronunciation is not defined by the standards. 01:45:32 Ooh! where=hvor why=hvorfor -> like shakespearian english 'wherefore' 01:46:34 there is plenty of vocabulary that would only be used in one of the forms, although some of it may gradually be becoming archaic. 01:48:06 If you're writing down actual speech, do you use the forms typical of the written form you're using, or the forms that the person actually said? <-- usually but not always the former. 01:48:44 e.g. humor books might frequently try and write dialect. 01:49:05 *to 01:49:36 'try and write' is perfectly grammatical in english 01:49:53 And those, I assume, would just be considered different spellings and pronunciations of the same affixes. <-- i doubt that, if they really look completely different rather than being obvious cognates 01:52:19 or are you saying that people also speak bokmål? <-- you could say some people are closer to it, like western parts of oslo and some other cities. 01:54:33 there are some differences in grammar, some differences in usage (e.g. -s possessive suffix is deprecated in nynorsk) 01:55:32 oren: to vs. and is a sore point in norwegian, because they are å vs. og, identically pronounced. 02:00:56 Ooh, I just thought of an extremely small unit of money. 02:01:31 Namely: the cost of an amount of computing power equal to that performed by one transistor in one clock cycle. 02:01:53 um. so the g is silent? 02:02:50 oren: yeah, final g often is. 02:03:03 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 02:03:58 tswett: it's so small that it costs more than it to account for it... 02:04:16 Yes, certainly. 02:05:00 sounds good. let's use it to break capitalism. 02:05:34 Maybe this unit is about one zeptocent. 02:06:27 so it's essentially the cost of one nand operation from two bits to one 02:06:34 When is the phrase "astronomically large" going to be replaced with "computer scientifically large"? 02:07:32 tswett: the latter sounds _very_ vague in comparison. 02:07:33 when we break down the earth to build a computer out of it 02:08:05 "astronomically large" has a much lower upper bound. 02:08:16 True. 02:08:35 Although, I think a computer made mostly of iron like the earth would have to be a mechanical one 02:08:37 In a certain way, a microsecond is "computer scientifically large". 02:09:08 Are we going to keep the earth as one big ball or are we going to break it up into lots of tiny pieces? 02:09:17 If we keep it as a ball, cooling could be a major problem. 02:09:41 Hmm maybe a large disc? 02:09:57 the ultimate hard disk 02:11:30 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to }{FISH}. 02:12:10 hm engineering problem 02:12:44 oh hm 02:13:01 probably want it distributed around the sun any way, to catch all the energy. 02:15:22 *- 02:28:03 so, in order to make sure that the arduino sketch would run, i almost made the interpreter incompatible with one of my demo programs 02:52:01 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:04:59 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 03:15:45 How to play poker with self-modifying rules? 04:00:19 re-added calling funtions from inside functions. 04:01:09 but, for stability's sake, you only have a depth of 3 (not inclding the main) 04:02:09 cause this arduino uno is dangerously low on ram 04:07:57 anyone want me to upload the Octopus 0005b language reference to my server? 04:13:58 -!- password2 has joined. 04:17:35 -!- }{FISH} has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:19:06 -!- tromp has quit. 04:24:38 Yes 04:24:47 I want to see the instructions 04:31:03 -!- tromp has joined. 04:35:15 I added support for vector synthesis into AmigaMML (with two or four sounds, but only supports using an envelope; it doesn't support a joystick) but I do not have any instrument of vector synthesis do you have some? 04:48:32 no 04:48:44 i don't thin i do 04:50:35 zzo38: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98841263/octopus%20language/octopus_0005b_lcd1602_keypad_sd%20commands.pdf 04:51:10 zzo38: it's on my dropbox instead of my server because it's gonna be obsolete by the afternoon 04:53:20 Do you have a .txt or only .pdf? 04:53:53 -!- Elronnd|deminewt has changed nick to root. 04:54:02 -!- root has changed nick to Elronnd|deminewt. 04:55:42 text isn't formatted as well, but i'll get it in a second 04:56:48 I don't need it now since I already looked 04:57:00 But, later on when you post final documentation, maybe you should make .txt 04:57:19 this ain't anywhere close to final 04:58:12 i go ocd on both command listings and command fixings 04:59:42 does it look any good to you so far? 05:00:16 I think so 05:00:49 i have to put bitwise operations in 05:02:05 Yes 05:02:15 i'm working on graphics at the moment 05:02:56 i mean, the graphics capbility of a 16x2 "text-only" display 05:06:39 8 custom characters gives me a little room to draw 05:09:57 How big are the tiles? 05:10:08 -!- zadock has joined. 05:10:08 5x8 05:10:37 tiles are seperated by a space 1 pixel wide 05:12:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: bebepating). 05:15:28 i have to wake myself up enough to gt up and turn the light off 05:17:20 brb 05:23:35 back 05:24:40 * Lyka coughs up all over the channel 05:25:09 24 hour nasacort only lasts for 16 05:27:14 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:32:30 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:35:30 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 05:45:04 -!- oren has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:49:10 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:53:39 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:54:12 -!- APic has changed nick to APic\splat. 06:02:43 -!- variable has joined. 06:06:32 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:09:04 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 06:14:37 -!- rdococ has joined. 06:14:44 hai 06:19:59 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:20:53 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 06:22:31 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 06:25:22 * Sgeo is again nostalgic about himself 06:30:17 * Lyka is too tired to close her eyes 06:30:29 *his eyes 06:32:44 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 06:39:18 -!- oren has joined. 06:41:51 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 06:43:07 -!- J_A_Work has left. 06:55:37 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:56:57 -!- rdococ has left. 07:00:44 -!- Herbalist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:03:35 -!- Herbalist has joined. 07:07:55 fungot: morning 07:07:56 mroman_: and it was 07:08:28 fungot: was...? 07:08:28 mroman_: the text color is ..well... touching. it has to do with the semantics i have now has an elisp module system really needs better documentation and probably an easier way to convert 2d objects into 3d objects. 07:20:52 -!- tromp has joined. 07:20:53 Good afternoon, fungot 07:20:54 Jafet: although i've always used ghost for kicking my own fnord code golf. more formal. challenges organized, hidden input/ output 07:26:07 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:28:02 I had idea to make up the "travel computer", with a monochrome display of 80x25 tiles, with 8x8 pixels per tile, and with simple tone generator, radio receiver, alarm, CF card, wired and wireless internet, infrared, and Forth. Smaller than a laptop computer, such as perhaps 8x11 inches when closed? I don't quite know, but I have some ideas 07:28:45 Kudos. 07:28:59 (The other program to built-in, other than Forth, is a VT100 terminal emulator, and perhaps network connection setup and a telnet and/or SSH client.) 07:32:16 -!- clog has joined. 07:32:21 I thought of to have a character generator ROM with 127 tiles where 0-30 are VT100 character graphics, and that 31 and 32 are arrows. The character cell can have bit7 indicate reverse video and bit6-bit0 indicate which tile. Each row can also have perhaps 4-bits tell you the mode, such as double height, double width, underline/reverse/blink, pixels mode (therefore you can make 2x4 graphics per cell in that row) 07:32:35 What is your opinions/ideas too? 07:35:35 Good morning 07:51:49 -!- zadock has joined. 07:53:36 -!- zadock has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:56:46 -!- f|`-`|f_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:15:50 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 08:17:48 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Client Quit). 08:28:29 ok 08:37:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:47:22 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:55:22 -!- zadock has joined. 09:34:14 -!- tromp has joined. 09:38:47 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:12:46 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 10:18:26 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:18:49 -!- J_A_Work has left. 10:20:09 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:32:01 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:32:27 -!- boily has joined. 10:35:20 -!- gniourf has joined. 10:38:05 -!- augur_ has joined. 10:38:21 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:39:44 -!- nortti_ has joined. 10:39:46 -!- monotone_ has joined. 10:42:12 -!- Tefaj has joined. 10:42:21 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 10:42:21 -!- monotone has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:42:21 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 10:49:28 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 11:18:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:23:08 -!- tromp has joined. 11:27:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GHOSTLY CHICKEN). 11:27:59 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:33:54 Spectral chicken 11:34:06 -!- Tefaj has changed nick to Jafet. 11:35:10 Hmm, spectral is an inflection of two words 11:43:58 ? 11:45:43 @wn spectral 11:45:45 *** "spectral" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 11:45:45 spectral 11:45:45 adj 1: of or relating to a spectrum; "spectral colors"; 11:45:45 "spectral analysis" 11:45:45 2: resembling or characteristic of a phantom; "a ghostly face at 11:45:47 [4 @more lines] 11:47:38 Oooh 11:47:42 Spectrum and spectre? 11:50:21 I only realised the more common meaning afterward 11:56:36 -!- gde33 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:11:14 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 12:11:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:12:31 -!- monotone_ has changed nick to polytone. 12:23:55 -!- tromp has joined. 12:28:40 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:41:09 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 12:41:45 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:42:40 -!- tromp has joined. 12:45:20 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 12:49:26 -!- Wright has joined. 12:49:26 -!- Wright__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:53:19 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 12:53:30 hi 12:57:55 -!- gde33 has joined. 13:00:14 -!- SopaXT has joined. 13:05:57 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:14:45 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti. 13:15:49 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:17:05 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:25:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:25:55 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:32:39 -!- hilquias has joined. 13:36:20 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:39:27 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:41:43 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 13:49:50 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:50:04 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:58:47 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:09:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:40:09 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:48:37 http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5207303/ - well ain't this Finnish. 14:52:48 Oh look, another one: http://hantwolf.deviantart.com/art/Lion-of-Finland-272341242 14:54:49 > furaffinity 14:54:51 Not in scope: ‘furaffinity’ 14:54:53 that link is staying blue 14:55:02 also lol lambdabot 15:02:46 @botsnack 15:02:46 :) 15:05:58 -!- SopaXT has joined. 15:15:02 Hey, it's totally SFW. 15:27:16 -!- rdococ has joined. 15:30:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:41:39 -!- spiette has joined. 15:43:58 -!- SopaXT has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:46:53 -!- lleu has joined. 16:09:51 -!- dario_ has joined. 16:14:13 -!- dario_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 16:24:01 -!- Welo has joined. 16:24:52 good morning 16:29:49 @localtime oren 16:29:50 Local time for oren is Mon Jun 1 12:31:13 2015 16:29:58 I do not think it is morning for you 16:30:04 It is certainly not morning for me 16:31:38 Given that there could be up to ~20 humans in here, there is a fair chance that it is morning for somebody 16:32:00 tswett: http://media.indiedb.com/cache/images/groups/1/1/84/thumb_620x2000/1187025029_Suffer_Not_the_Furry_to_Live_Desu.jpg 16:36:29 -!- password2 has joined. 16:37:42 -!- heroux has joined. 16:43:12 -!- Welo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:49:21 so, um...how much can you do with a 20x16 pixel grid again? 16:51:54 plus a 12x2 char grid next to it 16:56:20 -!- rdococ has left. 16:59:26 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:07:07 -!- variable has joined. 17:11:28 -!- rdococ has joined. 17:16:56 -!- G33kDude has joined. 17:17:06 What character are builtin? 17:17:51 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:17:55 -!- G33kDude has changed nick to GeekDude. 17:19:41 -!- Herbalist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:19:52 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:20:28 -!- Herbalist has joined. 17:20:53 -!- Welo has joined. 17:38:06 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 17:42:30 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:50:53 -!- bb010g has joined. 17:57:53 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:57:57 Help I have written the line of code "hundred = (\f -> f . f . f . f) . (\f -> f . f . f . f . f) . (\f -> f . f . f . f . f)" 17:58:09 In what language? 17:58:50 Haskell 17:59:12 -!- hilquias` has joined. 17:59:57 Taneb: hundred = (\f -> f . f) . (\f -> f . f) . (\f -> f . f . f . f . f) . (\f -> f . f . f . f . f) hth 18:00:16 shachaf, not keen 18:00:59 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:01:48 Taneb: (\f g -> f . f . g . g) (\f -> f . f) (\f -> f . f . f . f . f) 18:02:00 olsner, oooh 18:02:19 whoa, it's olsner 18:04:12 yep, it's me! 18:07:59 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 18:14:06 Taneb: I recommend a loop instead 18:14:34 good point 18:15:07 hundred f z = iterate f z !! 100 18:19:05 Eh, that sounds lame 18:19:26 or construct a lambda containing a loop 18:19:30 yes, that's definitely lame 18:38:35 shachaf: is that really a loop? 18:38:57 What is a loop? 18:39:35 shachaf: Repeat a series of steps until a bound has been reached 18:39:39 Or a condition is true 18:40:02 you're not the boss of me 18:42:26 -!- Elronnd|deminewt has changed nick to Dan_Maku. 18:42:30 -!- Dan_Maku has changed nick to Elronnd. 18:44:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:48:49 hundred = (\f -> (let q = (\x f n -> if n == 0 then x else (q (f x 18:49:13 hundred = (\f -> (let q = (\x f n -> if n == 0 then x else (q (f x) (n - 1)))) 18:49:42 I have no idea whether you can do anythign similar to the above 18:50:07 hundred = (\f x -> (let q = (\x f n -> if n == 0 then x else (q (f x) (n - 1))) x f 100) 18:52:33 hundred = (\f x -> (let q = (\x f n -> if n == 0 then x else (q (f x) (n - 1)))) x f 100) 18:56:24 does anyone understand my haskell-racket pidgin thingy or should I figure out how to do this correctly 19:02:11 -!- nys has joined. 19:04:50 ghci is such a scow, why is its syntax different from a .has file 19:07:29 hundred :: (Int -> Int) -> (Int -> Int) --works fine in a file, not on the prompt. 19:07:52 let hundred :: (a -> a) -> a -> a; hundred = ... 19:08:37 ghci's syntax is somewhat similar to a do block 19:08:40 except not exactly 19:17:33 hey, that wasn't too difficult! 19:17:37 let hundred :: (a -> a) -> a -> a; hundred f = (\x -> (let q = (\f x n -> if n == 0 then x else (q f (f x) (n - 1))) in q f x 100) ) 19:18:27 yay for learning programming languages sort of by osmosis! 19:19:22 > let hundred :: (a -> a) -> a -> a; hundred f = (\x -> (let q = (\f x n -> if n == 0 then x else (q f (f x) (n - 1))) in q f x 100) ); hundred (\x -> x + 1) 6 19:19:25 :1:158: 19:19:25 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 19:19:45 > let hundred :: (a -> a) -> a -> a; hundred f = (\x -> (let q = (\f x n -> if n == 0 then x else (q f (f x) (n - 1))) in q f x 100) ) 19:19:47 : 19:19:47 not an expression: ‘let hundred :: (a -> a) -> a -> a; hundred f = (\x -... 19:19:56 but what's the point 19:20:20 It's a loop with tail recursion 19:20:21 you're using general recursion and you're not reusing library functions and it's longer 19:20:53 and tail recursion is scow anyway 19:22:17 > let hundred :: (a -> a) -> a -> a; hundred f = (\x -> (let q = (\f x n -> if n == 0 then x else (q f (f x) (n - 1))) in q f x 100) ) in hundred (\x -> x + 1) 6 19:22:19 106 19:22:41 heh. evereyone's probably seem this already, but monads in Factor: http://gitweb.factorcode.org/gitweb.cgi?p=factor;a=blob;f=extra/monads/monads.factor;hb=HEAD 19:24:27 -!- hjulle has joined. 19:27:41 -!- rdococ has left. 19:29:38 Factor looks slightly insane. 19:30:57 monads moproblems 19:31:41 -!- Welo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:32:50 It looks like someone sat down and said "Well, Forth is nice, but what if we grafted some Lisp in there too." 19:34:41 The way of explain use of monad is like with list comprehension. Lists you can easily explain fmap/return/join, and then you can see also bind is working, and then how it is working IO monads too. For example in Python you can have [(x, y) for x in [1,2,3] for y in [3,1,4] if x != y] and in Haskell do-notation you can write (do { x <- [1,2,3]; y <- [3,1,4]; guard (x /= y); return (x, y); }) and you come up the same answer. That is how you should exp 19:39:54 zzo38: This is similar to one of my few light-bulb moments in monads so far: I write a pure-functional for-loop in Lisp, the end result of which is at least similar. 19:40:49 -!- Herbalist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:41:19 -!- Herbalist has joined. 19:41:33 > do { x <- [1,2,3]; y <- [3,1,4]; guard (x /= y); return (x, y); } 19:41:35 [(1,3),(1,4),(2,3),(2,1),(2,4),(3,1),(3,4)] 19:44:33 To help properly track optimized code without the output disabling the optimization: int traceprint(struct {char s[20]} X) __attribute__ ((const)) {puts(X.s);} 19:45:18 Basically it's a print function that pretends it's pure 19:45:30 um 19:45:59 To help properly track optimized code without the output disabling the optimization: int traceprint(struct {char s[20]} X) __attribute__ ((const)) {puts(X.s); return 0;} 19:46:06 Whoops 19:48:23 This helps when optimized code assumes that it can call a function less times than as written, but you're still trying to trace a bug. Adding a puts("crap"); would cause GCC to disable the optimization because now the number of times the function is called matters. 19:49:32 @wn debugger 19:49:33 *** "debugger" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 19:49:33 debugger 19:49:33 n 1: a program that helps in locating and correcting programming 19:49:33 errors 19:50:49 oren: That sort of thing seems to be a semi-common idiom in Clojure when dealing with certain things like database inserts. 19:51:38 Create a local value, insert it in the db, then return the same, and then you can even thus use it in place somewhere else where you'd otherwise just use the value. 19:53:14 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:59:51 -!- Welo has joined. 20:04:50 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:25:13 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:38:46 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:57:48 -!- shikhin has changed nick to inspired. 20:58:14 -!- inspired has changed nick to shikhin. 21:04:54 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:10:55 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:13:15 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:26:59 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:31:58 -!- heroux has joined. 21:34:40 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:37:49 -!- Melvar has joined. 21:38:18 -!- idris-bot has joined. 21:45:55 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:49:37 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to |\_|\. 21:51:05 -!- |\_|\ has changed nick to Elronnd. 21:57:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:15:11 Have I ever mentioned my "JIT operating system" idea? 22:15:29 I feel like it could potentially be a really good idea, so I don't know why it hasn't been tried yet. 22:15:58 It's an operating system where all executable code, with some exceptions, is stored in the form of some intermediate bytecode instead of machine code. 22:16:57 Whenever you run a program, the OS runs the bytecode using JIT compilation. 22:18:23 The benefit I see is that CPU-based security and separation measures are no longer necessary. 22:18:48 Sounds like the way Android was, before the latest runtime. 22:18:51 pretty sure that's been done, at least in almost the same way 22:19:05 Programs can all run in the same address space, because the bytecode makes it impossible for one program to try to access another program's data. 22:19:15 elliott has also described that. 22:19:42 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 22:20:28 pretty sure i thought of almost that back in the early '90s hth 22:20:57 -!- G33kDude has joined. 22:20:59 isn't that what inferno is? 22:21:11 (Although in Android's case that's not really the security model, and there's quite a lot of native code around, and anyway the current runtime is ahead-of-time compilation.) 22:21:20 even if all userspace code is run in a VM, you may want to isolate your VM instances because you will put bugs in it 22:22:32 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:23:02 -!- GeekDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:23:05 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:23:07 oh, and iSeries (AS/400) does something like that since the 80s 22:23:10 -!- G33kDude has changed nick to GeekDude. 22:23:14 I've read about Inferno before. 22:23:15 Also I think elliott's design also had no distinction between "user mode" and "kernel mode", because it's also equally useless, if you assume no bugs. 22:25:01 Spectral chicken <-- UNITARY CHICKEN 22:25:30 Oh sweet, a training round happened. 22:25:53 The way linear algebrists keep talking about spectral things always confuses me. 22:26:13 the problem with all this is that doing it properly really requires proof verification all the way down to circuit level 22:26:13 At this rate, I should have a neural net in 300,000 seconds. 22:26:45 that's less than 100 hours! 22:26:52 if you want the OS to be safe even with drivers, you need specifications of physical devices 22:26:54 Hermitian chicken 22:26:54 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:27:08 -!- olsner has left ("Leaving"). 22:27:16 (at least that's part of what i thought, back in the '90s) 22:27:18 -!- olsner has joined. 22:27:21 oerjan: yeah, that's something I don't want to attempt. 22:27:27 fizzie: What sort of spectral things? 22:28:12 shachaf: The spectral theorem, mainly. 22:28:24 Actually gate level verification is more mature than software, if anything 22:28:47 (I'm conditioned to think of, like, frequencies, man, when someone mentions a spectrum.) 22:29:01 (probably because Intel knows, from experience, that it's very expensive to hotfix gates.) 22:29:03 (And not about eigenvalues.) 22:29:59 Also: spectral clustering. 22:30:19 At this rate, I should have a neural net in 300,000 seconds. <-- i sense determination here 22:30:41 -!- hilquias` has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:31:35 Sometimes there's an audio-related paper that also involves spectral clustering (because it's used in image processing, and there is nothing they can possess which speech people cannot take away, to quote that movie). 22:31:52 fizzie: you could have invented spectral sequences hth 22:32:15 fizzie: RUN, RUN AWAY 22:32:30 And then it's like "wait, is that just garden variety clustering with spectral features or spectral clustering of something else". 22:33:54 http://www.jmlr.org/papers/volume7/bach06b/bach06b.pdf <- that seems to be segmenting a spectro[1]gram with spectral[2] clustering. 22:34:09 (Disclaimer: I couldn't bother to actually read it.) 22:37:38 going by the contents of http://www.ams.org/notices/200601/fea-chow.pdf i probably couldn't have invented spectral sequences 22:38:33 * oerjan cannot quite remember whether he ever understood what spectral sequences are. 22:38:41 Maybe it's like the "only you can prevent forest fires", which most people also cannot do. 22:38:46 but i'm pretty sure i couldn't have invented them. 22:39:22 fizzie: i'm pretty sure shachaf is alluding to the "you could have invented monads" blog post 22:39:36 (which is rather more reasonable.) 22:40:04 oerjan: i'm alluding to http://www.ams.org/notices/200601/fea-chow.pdf hth 22:40:05 oerjan: The title of the thing he linked is "You Could Have Invented Spectral Sequences", though. 22:40:09 well, maybe it's not alluding 22:40:32 If it's printed in an AMS journal, it must be true. 22:40:38 ok maybe they are alluding, then. 22:40:55 no, dan piponi was alluding to the article i linked 22:41:22 Not related, but something that got a chuckle out of me: tdwtf's "Error'd" had this: [[ For those accounts with no security question, one has automatically been assigned. If prompted, the security question is: "What was the color of your first car?" The answer is: car. ]] 22:41:26 It's nice because it's arguably kind of a tautology: all cars are car-coloured. 22:41:41 http://blog.ezyang.com/2012/02/anatomy-of-you-could-have-invented/#comment-3465 22:42:22 shachaf: shocking 22:42:36 ok maybe i missed something 22:46:25 you could have invented spectral hugs 22:47:12 you could have invented profunctors 22:47:20 -!- boily has joined. 22:47:21 i did hth 22:47:26 ;_; 22:50:56 h|!oq !y 22:57:11 b_ AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 22:57:57 hah! outxsampaed! 22:58:01 >:D 22:58:10 wait xsampa? 22:58:22 xsampa. 22:58:34 * oerjan never learned that. 22:58:44 * boily used the trusty table on wikipédia. 22:58:45 boily: i wasn't using xsampa hth 22:58:58 oh. what was it then twh? 23:01:11 * oerjan suggests turning your monitor upside down hth hth 23:02:47 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 23:03:01 oops 23:03:12 stupid script 23:03:16 that is one impressive helloily. 23:03:40 I look at this http://blog.ezyang.com/2014/07/type-classes-confluence-coherence-global-uniqueness/ it is similar to thing I have complained about too. My opinion is that the definition of test in D.hs should be a type mismatch error. This would require changing the definition of Set though, as well as fixing Haskell to allow the new definition to work properly. 23:04:09 hungy. time to hunt for poutine. 23:04:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HADOPELAGIC CHICKEN). 23:04:42 @ask boily what do you think of smoke's poutinerie twh 23:04:42 Consider it noted. 23:05:02 The definition need to indicate that the type (Set x) depends on (Ord x) therefore it work. 23:05:39 And you should be able to specify which instances you would want to import too. 23:05:58 oerjan: you should turn the script off. hope that helps. 23:07:15 Wait, hang on 23:07:15 Therefore, in such example as given then specifying the type (Set U) in D.hs at all should be error because it is ambiguous which type you mean. 23:07:50 To define the n-sphere in hott you have to define all of its higher homotopies, right? 23:08:14 But higher homotopy of the n-sphere is a notoriously hard open problem, so how the hell could you even do that? 23:09:31 Another problem is that some packages define instances which are wrong and then you cannot define the correct one! 23:10:03 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:11:24 @tell boily NOOO don't leave i cannot interpret your xsampa even with wikipedia :( 23:11:24 Consider it noted. 23:15:12 that 0~ just doesn't fit any of the tables 23:17:52 @tell boily My two theories are: (1) you're trying to write bonsoerjan but have no idea what the phonetic symbols mean (2) you're actually using some african click language with a slight misprint on the 0 23:17:53 Consider it noted. 23:27:15 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 23:29:10 It is EXCESSIVELY rainy here 23:30:14 @metar ENVA 23:30:14 ENVA 012250Z 25008KT 9999 FEW040 BKN060 08/03 Q1000 RMK WIND 670FT 25010KT 23:30:27 now if i knew which part was rain 23:30:32 So the first training batch took 300 seconds, but the next one took 855, and the next one 1196, and the next one 1405. 23:30:53 @metar CYYZ 23:30:53 CYYZ 012300Z 14007KT 15SM SCT055 BKN065 OVC220 13/08 A3020 RMK SC3SC4CI1 SLP229 23:31:13 > zipWith(-)`ap`tail$[300,855,1196,1405] 23:31:15 [-555,-341,-209] 23:31:20 I only see the OVC220 \ 23:31:43 > zipWith(-)`ap`tail$zipWith(-)`ap`tail$[300,855,1196,1405] 23:31:44 @metar ESSB 23:31:44 ESSB 012320Z AUTO 22005KT 9999 NCD 07/03 Q1012 23:31:45 [-214,-132] 23:32:02 Good ol' zip`ap`tail 23:32:13 @quote zip` 23:32:14 quicksilver says: zip`ap`tail - the Aztec god of consecutive numbers 23:32:30 @pl \x -> x . x 23:32:30 join (.) 23:32:37 zip ap ta eel 23:33:54 oerjan: wait, do you have a script that randomly appends " hth" to your messages? 23:34:01 I made a version of unrnfc that only reads the file through once 23:34:04 @pl join id (join id) 23:34:04 join id (join id) 23:34:13 tswett: no it removes it hth 23:34:16 @unpl join id (join id) 23:34:16 (\ f -> (\ a -> a) f f) (\ h -> (\ b -> b) h h) 23:34:37 tdh 23:34:59 i guess they fixed that bug 23:35:09 What bug was that? 23:36:08 Phantom_Hoover: defining the n-sphere in HoTT is quite easy. 23:36:41 so is it just hard to calculate what \Omega_n actually is? 23:36:52 I don't remember what \Omega is. 23:37:02 Like, what a capital omega represents. 23:37:22 I think this is a big sphere (written like Haskell): 23:37:22 tswett: in what? algo anylyss or something else? 23:37:27 tswett: @pl join id (join id) used to loop 23:38:00 data BigSphere where Base :: BigSphere; Surf :: Refl (Refl (Refl (Refl Base))) = Refl (Refl (Refl (Refl Base))) 23:38:03 oerjan *is* a script that randomly appends " hth" to his messages 23:38:11 @pl ap id id (ap id id) 23:38:14 ap id id (ap id id) 23:38:15 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:38:19 oh that's the one 23:38:24 @pl-resume 23:38:30 ap id id (ap id id) 23:38:30 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:38:32 tswett, capital omega is the group of loops with a given basepoint 23:38:37 http://hastebin.com/zoyejekeyu.cpp 23:38:38 (i think_ 23:38:52 Yeah, I think it is just hard to calculate what that is. 23:38:54 so it's \pi_n except more general or something 23:39:11 oerjan: maybe if you resume it one more time you'll get something 23:39:20 @pl-resume 23:39:33 ap id id (ap id id) 23:39:33 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:39:39 shachaf: nope hth 23:39:48 tdnh 23:40:09 tht 23:40:34 tope his telps 23:41:07 it implements http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_pair_encoding 23:48:27 `? category-helpdesk 23:48:27 category-helpdesk is a helpdesk with identity and composition. This channel isn't it. 23:48:30 what's this all about 23:48:53 `` N=$(find wisdom -type f | wc -l); F="$(find wisdom -type f | head -n $((RANDOM % N)) | tail -n1)"; E="${F#wisdom/}"; echo "$E"; \? "$E" 23:48:54 right \ Right is not two wrongs but three lefts. 23:49:01 i dunno, ask in the category helpdesk 23:49:15 `` N=$(find wisdom -type f | wc -l); F="$(find wisdom -type f | head -n $((RANDOM % N)) | tail -n1)"; E="${F#wisdom/}"; echo "$E"; \? "$E" 23:49:16 burlesque \ Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque) 23:52:23 `` N=$(find wisdom -type f | wc -l); F="$(find wisdom -type f | head -n $((RANDOM % N)) | tail -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/"; cat "$F" 23:52:24 olsner/olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines. 23:52:43 `` echo 'N=$(find wisdom -type f | wc -l); F="$(find wisdom -type f | head -n $((RANDOM % N)) | tail -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/"; cat "$F"' > bin/wisdom; chmod +x bin/wisdom 23:52:47 No output. 23:53:24 `wisdom 23:53:24 `wisdom 23:53:24 `wisdom 23:53:25 `wisdom 23:53:26 `wisdom 23:53:27 copumpkin/copumpkin is categorically incapable of being president. 23:53:28 itidus20/itidus20's entry has been censored. 23:53:28 cat/Cats are cool, but should be illegal. 23:53:28 ​Ø/Ø escaped due to a sensitive case bug 23:53:28 résumé/résumé is a French summary. Not a curriculum vitæ. 23:53:31 oops 23:53:33 too many nicks 23:53:43 copumpkin: sorry about that hth 23:55:40 too many nicks on the dance floor 23:55:54 also what happened to itidus20's entry 23:56:03 it's been censored 23:56:22 by the way, slashlearn isn't compatible with entries that are in subdirectories 23:56:24 `run ls wisdom/iti* 23:56:26 wisdom/itidus19 \ wisdom/itidus20 \ wisdom/itidus21 23:56:34 `? itidus19 23:56:35 itidus19 disappeared into a space-time anomaly 23:56:37 `? itidus21 23:56:40 itidus21 just made some instant coffee. 23:56:43 so this will generate invalid output for them 23:57:14 `? phantom_hoover 23:57:15 Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop. 23:57:33 it's true 23:57:34 oh, that's why you were asking about homotopies 23:59:16 `wisdom 23:59:17 thyme/Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano. 2015-06-02: 00:00:13 `` grep hyme wisdom/* 00:00:17 grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°​_o): Is a directory \ wisdom/thyme:Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano. 00:00:17 | 00:00:17 o/`¯º 00:00:27 okay 00:00:39 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:00:52 fizzie: eep 00:03:46 ghci is such a scow, why is its syntax different from a .has file <-- imo, because you cannot unambiguously parse a line that might be either an expression or the start of a definition. 00:04:28 oerjan: "x = 5" is unambiguous 00:04:49 shachaf: yes, but that's not the only legal form of first line of a definition 00:04:55 x 00:04:57 = 5 00:05:00 well, if you required all of them to be on one line 00:05:01 is just as legal 00:05:05 multiline definitions are a different issue 00:05:20 but now that "data T ..." is legal, i don't see why "x = 5" shouldn't be 00:05:24 shachaf: but then you'd still have people complaining that they couldn't paste .hs files directly into ghci 00:05:33 sure you can, with :{ 00:05:39 which already exists for multiline definitions 00:05:57 ok, you probably still couldn't because .hs files can be out of order and that's asking a bit much 00:06:04 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:06:07 shachaf: i mean "newbies", aka the people you're trying to avoid having to explain this to - replacing it with having to explain :{ instead is useless. 00:06:20 but :{ is a p. good smiley face 00:06:22 shachaf: what's that, the mustachioed guy operator? 00:06:27 is that a big moustache or what? 00:06:33 oh i didn't even think of the out of order thig. 00:06:35 *thing. 00:06:40 oerjan: anyway it's not about explaining things, it's about using it myself hth 00:07:17 oren: anyway, they could probably fix it so some more cases worked out of the box, but having "typing the contents of a .hs file into ghci always works" work is hopeless. 00:07:54 :{ \ x :: Int \ print 1 \ x = 2 \ :} 00:08:08 given the recent reddit discussion i saw, it's somewhat likely that they'll try to improve it soon 00:08:16 whoa whoa whoa 00:08:33 should i try keeping up with reddit.com/r/haskell 00:08:44 i stopped after a long streak of scow 00:08:58 you don't have to read _every_ post 00:09:01 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 00:09:04 it's not like i do 00:09:47 -!- augur has changed nick to augur[not-dot-ne. 00:09:53 -!- augur[not-dot-ne has changed nick to augur[notdotnet]. 00:11:50 although no one in the reddit discussion pointed out the obvious ambiguities, if i hadn't been several days late to read it i might have 00:11:57 i filed a bunch of filler ghci bugs a while ago but i forgot i was going to mention that one 00:12:10 (which means it's only obvious to me, i guess) 00:12:21 maybe it's so obvious that no one else found it necessary to mention hth 00:12:35 THAT MUST BE IT 00:12:40 a "filler" bug is one whose bug number is slightly below #10000 00:12:48 aha 00:13:11 wait, does that mean i should look at #9999 and down to see your work 00:13:16 by the way it's a shame bug #10000 was a duplicate 00:13:29 i think it deserved all the discussion from #9858 00:13:32 indeed, otoh it brought so much back into life 00:13:49 did you notice they didn't manage to fix it completely in 7.10.1 00:14:22 what's missing? 00:14:33 i stopped paying attention sometime after i became famous hth 00:15:05 shachaf: the (,) constraint vs. * ambiguity, mainly 00:15:20 well, () and => vs. -> was the exploit 00:15:21 -!- augur[notdotnet] has changed nick to augur. 00:15:37 ok 00:15:53 well i'll just rely on SafeHaskell from now on to prevent people from deleting my files 00:17:16 oh the tuple constraints thing was changed after 7.10 was released 00:19:07 that's what i said! 00:19:22 yes 00:19:34 i remembered that it happened, just not the timeline 00:19:49 also after that they've changed it into an actual class 00:21:56 https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9995 i'm with #2 00:22:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:27:04 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:27:31 -!- yorick has joined. 00:29:25 It's a loop with tail recursion <-- what shachaf is trying to imply is that haskell's laziness means tail recursion is often not an improvement, and this is one of those cases. 00:29:42 i wasn't trying to imply that but i did think it 00:30:25 also, when tail recursion _is_ an improvement, you often need explicit strictness annotation to make it so. 00:30:43 sometimes you can use implicit strictness annotation hth 00:33:05 `wisdom 00:33:06 mockingbird/mockingbird is watching you.. closely! Is it mocking you? Probably. 00:33:47 * oerjan tries to swat mockingbird but misses -----### 00:34:02 maybe `? should give a random wisdom when run with no arguments 00:34:12 `? 00:34:12 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:34:22 plausible 00:34:39 `wisdom 00:34:40 fentimans/fentimans is a delicious beverage out from Hexham, that can be paired with a fresh fternooner for a nutritive midday snack. 00:34:59 `wisdom 00:35:00 certainty/We don't know what certainty is for sure, but at least it isn't a functor. 00:38:01 `? forty 00:38:02 forty means "in a fort-like manner" 00:38:06 `? people who taneb is not 00:38:07 elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond 00:38:20 -!- hilquias has joined. 00:38:23 Taneb: Is that a complete list? 00:38:30 shachaf: but of course 00:39:07 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 00:40:53 `? nooodl 00:40:54 nooodl is the correct spelling 00:40:57 `? nooodl 00:40:57 nooodl is the correct spelling 00:41:00 hm 00:41:04 `? nooodl 00:41:05 nooooodl is the correct spelling 00:41:31 `? wlcom 00:41:33 Hi! This is a chat about unusual programming tools. For additional info, visit our wiki: . (For unusual things of a contrasting sort, try http://bit.ly/19k9nf8.) 00:49:25 -!- Wright__ has joined. 00:49:26 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:26:19 `bienvenir 01:26:20 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bienvenir: not found 01:26:27 `bienvenida 01:26:28 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bienvenida: not found 01:26:59 `bienvenido 01:27:00 ​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 01:27:11 `bienvenu 01:27:12 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bienvenu: not found 01:27:22 hm no french 01:27:26 `? bienvenu 01:27:27 bienvenu? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:28:45 `welcome 01:28:46 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 01:29:06 `` sed -i 's/en .*/en EFnet o DALnet.)/' wisdom/bienvenido 01:29:06 sed: can't read wisdom/bienvenido: No such file or directory 01:29:14 `` sed -i 's/en .*/en EFnet o DALnet.)/' wisdom/`welcome.es 01:29:15 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 01:29:19 `` sed -i 's/en .*/en EFnet o DALnet.)/' wisdom/welcome.es 01:29:23 No output. 01:29:29 `bienvenido 01:29:30 ​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.) 01:30:09 `` ls wisdom/welcome* 01:30:10 wisdom/welcome \ wisdom/welcome.bork \ wisdom/welcome.es \ wisdom/welcome.fi 01:34:40 -!- edwardk has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 01:34:41 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 01:34:42 -!- mbrcknl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:39:17 -!- edwardk has joined. 01:41:49 -!- Nihilumbra has joined. 01:43:03 Ok 01:43:27 The morris worm from 1987 or 88 what was it 01:43:40 -!- incomprehensibly has joined. 01:44:11 -!- mbrcknl has joined. 01:44:43 not to be confused with the morris dance 01:46:06 How to replicate it 01:46:53 it's good at replicating itself hth 01:50:57 Lol 01:51:07 Its on a floppy disk in a meusum 01:51:22 Museum 01:51:32 I can't with that word 01:58:59 Give me an alternitave language that can make a site fully functionable without the usage of javascript but can make the same style and quality of a java run site 02:03:10 are you confusing java and javascript, they are completely different. 02:03:30 Sorry 02:03:37 Java script run site 02:04:26 I know they are different I just can't word atm 02:04:54 a lot of languages could work in principle but they have the problem that _your site_ doesn't get to decide what user's _browsers_ support, and javascript is the only thing that works widely without users installing anything extra these days. 02:05:04 *users' 02:05:22 God 02:05:24 Dammit 02:05:49 however, there are quite a lot of languages that can be _compiled_ to javascript. 02:06:03 Why is everything with javascript, I want more versitile sites 02:07:09 because javascript was what got improved upon to fix the even more horrible mess that existed before. 02:08:01 java btw tried to be it, but failed. 02:08:36 * oerjan should note that he isn't a web developer so may be missing something. 02:08:51 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 02:10:39 Ah, I forgot Oerjan is in his 40's he was in the nightmare of the early internet 02:11:33 it wasn't much of a nightmare for me, but then i didn't have to program it. 02:12:26 Ha ha what do you mean program it 02:12:55 i didn't have to try to make fancy websites 02:12:59 Ah 02:13:34 my own website (hideously out-of-date, i seem to just drop in new files and link them from the wiki these days) doesn't even have CSS. 02:14:28 Why do I get strong nostalgia when I think of the 1950's-1990's even though I'm a young 02:15:02 Maybe its because of all the history I learn on a day to day basis 02:15:04 clearly reincarnation hth 02:35:51 oerjan: i assume that nvg.org is Taneb's domain 02:36:09 surprisingly, no 02:36:29 What's oerjans site 02:36:55 so is it elliott's, a rabbi's, Mark Zuckerberg's, or James Bond's? 02:37:04 Maybe I should get a personal site, everyone seems to have one 02:37:15 Nihilumbra: oerjan.nvg.org 02:37:46 Is it in norwegion 02:37:51 no 02:37:54 Ok 02:37:59 i have a fairly impersonal site 02:38:58 Oh you played Nomic :0 02:43:01 You can make webpages and stuff even just with HTML you don't need JavaScripts. If you use server codes then you can use whatever programming language you want, Javascript if you like it, or C, or PHP, or whatever else 02:43:46 If you want interactive with server codes you can also make telnet protocol or SSH protocol 02:44:16 lol telnet that sounds cool. 02:44:24 What's telnet 02:45:12 Interactive internet protocol. Whatever it receive it will do by the terminal emulator (usually VT100 or related), and when you push key it send. 02:45:13 telnet is pretty much just a two-way tcp connection to whatever program is on the other end 02:46:17 It is unencrypted, so it can easily be spoofed, spied on etc. which is why people nowadays generally use ssh 02:47:04 E.g. when you send a password to login over a telnet connection, the password is sent as plain text 02:47:32 so if someone is capturing your packets, now they know your password 02:47:37 SSH is more secure; it support not only login by password but also you can do authentication by keys too, and some other security features 02:48:46 Another thing of SSH is you can do X forwarding which allow to make GUI, but then you need X if you want to be able to access the GUI. I do not recommend that if a services is made on internet you use SSH, that you require X so you should provide text/command-line mode too whether or not the GUI is provided. 02:49:48 You should use limited codes compatible with VT100/ANSI/xterm if possible since subset of those are the most portable terminal codes. 02:50:46 (Although, some servers also provide option for different terminal types, or you can check the client's terminal type string to see what it identifies itself as, or do both) 02:51:34 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:55:58 Telnet *over SSL* is reasonably secure though. 02:56:23 And (though I don't know if anyone does this) you could even use client certs instead of passwords with it. 02:56:44 (but yes, SSH is much more convenient for this. Because seriously, who does Telnet over SSL other than IBM?) 03:08:29 Telnet is also a simpler protocol. But, if you want security then use SSH 03:10:59 I just reaalized, that instead of running dwarf fortress over X tunneling, I can set it to text display! 03:12:45 What a strange concept 03:13:03 (Does it have a text display? Do you have a cp437 terminal?) 03:14:33 -!- password2 has joined. 03:57:36 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:06:58 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 04:07:11 -!- variable has joined. 04:07:11 hi 04:09:48 gonna fork the 4FK-Based Interpreted Language for the Arduino called Octopus into both Squid and Cuttlefish over the course of a few days 04:10:30 Development on Octopus will continue as long as 4FK is being developed by me 04:12:19 brb 04:16:51 back 04:17:31 Yeah I have a cp437 compatible font (Liberation Mono) 04:17:39 brb 04:20:00 back 04:24:39 Hmm, but tis font sucks. getting a better one 04:25:45 -!- SchrodingersCat has joined. 04:26:44 I just lost internet 04:27:16 http://zzo38computer.org/backup/pc_character_set.chr 04:27:21 That is a better font 04:27:57 I am Lyka 04:28:25 OK 04:29:31 okay, able to connect to router 04:29:59 I was typing something about 4FK Octopus 04:30:15 I'm still making an AI for tarballs 04:30:38 router says Internet is down 04:30:48 God damn quantum physics 04:31:02 If you can't see your internet you don't have internet 04:31:49 Does one pronounce router as rooter or r- OW- ter 04:32:01 second 04:32:09 Ok 04:33:18 -!- SchrodingersCat has changed nick to Lyka|Phone. 04:33:58 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:34:46 anyone wanna see the current command list for 4FK Octopus? 04:34:59 Is it a bot 04:35:01 ?? 04:35:12 huh? 04:35:15 Nvm 04:35:31 no, it's an arduino sketch 04:35:38 Okey 04:35:51 4FK == Fourfuck 04:36:01 @bf ++++++++++++[>++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++>+++++++>++++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++<<<<<<<<<-]++++++++++++>>>>>>----.>>>---.--.<----.<<<<<<----.>>>>>>>+++++.<<<<<-.<<.>>>>>>>+.<<<<<<<.>>++..<<.>+. 04:36:01 Push x; y == 1 04:36:05 Ok 04:36:12 What's fourfuck tho 04:36:28 That sounds dirty 04:36:42 A former attempt at an esolang 04:37:19 Explain what it does 04:37:36 sounds lik bf with only 4 commands? 04:38:07 is it? 04:38:08 actually, bf with four-letter commands 04:38:20 i'm on a phone 04:38:23 That sounds very detering 04:38:40 Yes you are, why? I'm also on a phone 04:38:54 my Internet is down 04:39:13 Have you unplugged it and plugged it back in 04:39:49 I don't care enough 04:40:20 fine, brb 04:40:29 Determining where to put certain strings at random intervels into a stack is very weird 04:41:03 we have cable phone 04:41:18 can't risk losing that 04:41:23 What are you showing us again¿ 04:41:44 huh? 04:41:54 The fourfuck thing 04:42:06 -!- Elronnd has left. 04:42:46 let me ssh into my web server, where I was in the process of copying the files there 04:42:49 brb 04:43:36 Octopus (4FK+LCD1602 04:43:41 oops 04:43:54 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 04:44:17 -!- Lyka|Phone has quit (Quit: -a- IRC for Android 2.1.20). 04:44:21 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka|Phone. 04:44:36 ¿¿¿¿¿ 04:44:57 What's happening? 04:47:43 Apparently someone converted all the DF tilesets to ttf fonts. http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=1922 04:48:49 back 04:49:10 go to sif.lesidhetree.com 04:50:38 LEROY JEEEENKIIINS 04:50:41 Anyways 04:50:59 That's a nice set of brainfuck four king 04:51:23 The connection was refused 04:51:24 Let me to see the .txt file when you are completely finish with it; right now I am not interest to loo at right now 04:52:44 to what oren 04:53:47 Telnet ssh 04:53:57 But didn't you say telnet is unsafe 04:54:14 Telnet does not have security. 04:54:18 SSH does. 04:54:30 It doesn't mean telnet is unsafe 04:54:51 http://puu.sh/i9hMA.png 04:55:13 So telnet is crap security wise but ssh helps 04:55:30 http://postimg.org/image/6apsrm5ej/ <-- playing DF over ssh & GNU screen! 04:56:07 the coonection was refused when trying to go to sif.lesidhetree.com 04:56:10 ;0 04:56:37 Yes. Telnet, like HTTP and Gopher and SMTP and IRC and so on, is not a secure protocol; this means that data is not encrypted. SSH encrypts the data and has other security features, in order to improve the security. 04:56:40 really? why? 04:57:07 no idea? 04:57:32 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 04:57:40 oh, I mispelled it that's why 04:57:46 works fine for me 04:57:46 Oren, its because of those amazing unheard if dog breeds 04:58:13 s/if/of 04:59:10 Lyka is it complete 04:59:32 no 04:59:42 nowhere near complete 05:00:18 Then what are you doing here?! Go complete it 05:00:30 major changes may have to happen for it to work with cuttlefish 05:00:51 I need a shipment of parts 05:01:11 arrives wednesday 05:01:11 Tell me about cuttle and shell fish later 05:01:15 Night 05:07:14 cuttlefish and calamari 05:08:46 okay, 4FK now has nothing in common with bf 05:09:11 change I have to make 05:09:14 I can dee that 05:09:19 See* 05:10:08 which is why I never updated the wiki 05:10:45 cause it's less esolang and more machine code 05:10:58 hh 05:11:16 ? 05:17:43 night all 05:18:03 -!- Lyka|Phone has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 05:18:11 Why does it say "error: 'Sample' has no member named 'data'" even though it does have that member? (I get the same error for all of the other members) 05:18:58 O, I figured out now 05:53:08 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:56:18 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:04:57 -!- rdococ has joined. 06:05:34 -!- rdococ has left. 06:05:38 -!- rdococ has joined. 06:34:54 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:41:11 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:27:59 -!- Nihilumbra has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 07:55:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:28:54 http://i.imgur.com/akjGQLo.png 08:29:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:31:56 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 08:32:35 Different one I gave compat mode, and it bluescreened me 08:35:10 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:37:45 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:49:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:55:00 Where's my pal fungot? 08:57:03 I need his opinion on the implication of lisp-like languages in the modern world on frequency of parentheses in text messages on social networks from people that are married to computer linguists. 09:01:00 Man, Dwarf fortress fonts make text very compact on screen 09:05:44 -!- fungot has joined. 09:05:50 mroman_: There. 09:06:22 fungot: What's your opinion on the implication of lisp-like languages in the modern world on frequency of parentheses in text messages on social networks from people that are married to computer linguists. 09:06:22 mroman_: neilv what portion of the package that the macro then 09:11:34 ^style 09:11:35 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 09:11:57 ^style enron 09:11:57 Selected style: enron (subset of the Enron email dataset) 09:12:09 fungot: did you or didn't you? 09:12:09 int-e: attached you will find that the same i/ ii kay as mentioned on a voicemail i left you on thursday on the robert trent, f) class 2002-04 meeting times: how democrats love the new source review which requires the use of the commission 09:17:03 fungot: What's your favorite Burlesque program? 09:17:03 mroman_: it is the only two, we are to stress on the household and the next few years.??) 09:17:09 Mine is ln)XXtp)><)F:)<]u[/v\[ 09:21:16 it however only really works if and only if one and exactly one permutation is missing 09:23:13 -!- APic\splat has changed nick to APic. 09:23:26 -!- APic has changed nick to APic\splat. 09:35:48 -!- Herbalist has joined. 10:01:20 -!- toxolotl has joined. 10:26:19 -!- boily has joined. 10:53:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:03:38 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:08:41 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43129&oldid=42826 * Esowiki201529A * (+31) /* base 7 system */ new section 11:22:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CYCLICAL CHICKEN). 11:53:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:08:42 -!- rdococ has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 12:37:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:43:00 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 12:49:08 -!- Wright__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:49:32 -!- Wright has joined. 12:57:19 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:02:24 -!- SopaXT has joined. 13:03:33 -!- Herbalist has joined. 13:11:20 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:33:29 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:41:31 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 13:53:21 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:07:04 fungot: Don't you hate people that don't use -Wall -Werror --std=c89 -pedantic? 14:07:04 mroman_: public opinion of the in air of discontent is reflecting on a couple of years." bc: sheila a knudsen in ena had is whether it will/ hou/ ect on 10/ 10. 14:07:25 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:08:10 C89? What is this, 1989? 14:09:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:10:17 -std=c11 -Weverything -Werror 14:10:26 -Whatever 14:10:37 Warns for every occurrence of the xor operator. 14:11:15 -Whenever 14:11:20 Warns for every occurrence of chickens. 14:14:04 mroman_: no. But I hate the people that try to claim that by using a couple of compiler switches like that they have magically proved that their program is standards compliant. 14:14:39 well, that would depend on how good the compiler is at rejecting non standard compliant programs 14:14:54 and at detecting UB 14:15:00 mroman_: and solving the halting problem 14:15:18 and some other impossible things 14:15:55 why the halting problem? 14:16:34 because of runtime overflows? 14:16:55 a compiler could just assume that every addition overflows :) 14:17:14 and require you to do bounds checking before every one of them. 14:17:24 mroman_: more for using dangling pointers 14:17:36 but sure, overflows too if you wish 14:18:14 well 14:18:24 gcc surely could employ some of the stuff the rust compiler does :) 14:18:53 maybe 14:18:54 maybe not 14:19:18 mroman_: you could interpret most of the stuff in some more well-behaved programs for a particular run, but you can't check for all input, 14:19:36 or even for a fixed input, the program could run for riddiculously long time so you can't run it to completion in practice, 14:19:58 I was refering to doing more strict compile-time analytics. 14:20:04 so you can't check if it will dereference a dangling pointer like 2**2**100 seconds later. 14:20:33 but yeah, that doesn't really work well with C. 14:20:55 I just don't like seeing compiler warnings 14:21:04 because it seems suspicious :) 14:21:11 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:25:49 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:30:31 https://github.com/FMNSSun/Teightath/blob/master/src/types.c#L42 <- I'd whish gcc would produce a warning for these things as well 14:33:35 and yes this means I'm back in the esolang business :) 14:34:04 I'm intending on writing a GolfVM in the usual VM style 14:34:13 i.e. not relying on too much runtime dynamic 14:34:25 (meaning no eval capabilities and such) 14:35:01 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:35:43 -!- GeekDude has quit (Client Quit). 14:38:46 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:39:00 -!- GeekDude has quit (Client Quit). 14:40:27 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:41:15 [wiki] [[Fourfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43130&oldid=43063 * Lesidhetree * (+813) A little update...more coming very soon. 14:42:55 [wiki] [[Talk:Fourfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43131&oldid=43051 * Lesidhetree * (+375) added a little disclaimer 15:00:03 [wiki] [[Fourfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43132&oldid=43130 * Lesidhetree * (+66) /* Operators */ Edited some stuff 15:01:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:02:09 [wiki] [[Fourfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43133&oldid=43132 * Lesidhetree * (-232) /* Example programs */ 15:03:12 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:03:25 -!- evalj has joined. 15:05:55 -!- Herbalist has joined. 15:06:15 [wiki] [[Fourfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43134&oldid=43133 * Lesidhetree * (-727) Removed a few sections I felt couldn't be filled in yet. 15:08:52 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 15:09:37 fine...edited th wiki 15:16:25 -!- jakob__ has joined. 15:16:45 Hey I was wondering if you know of any esoteric programming tools 15:16:51 like IDES, etc 15:25:29 -!- variable has joined. 15:28:51 -!- variable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:33:54 -!- jakob__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:54:24 -!- hjulle has joined. 15:55:33 `olist 989 15:55:48 olist 989: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 15:59:16 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 15:59:17 -!- rdococ has joined. 15:59:23 finally connected 16:06:31 o/ 16:09:01 -!- rdococ has left. 16:18:33 -!- rdococ has joined. 16:47:31 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:59:24 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:05:30 -!- TieSoul has joined. 17:07:16 -!- GeekDude has joined. 17:09:27 -!- wundo has joined. 17:15:55 -!- paul2520 has joined. 17:15:55 -!- paul2520 has quit (Changing host). 17:15:55 -!- paul2520 has joined. 17:18:46 -!- password2 has joined. 17:19:00 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:22:45 -!- password2 has joined. 17:23:20 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:24:32 -!- password2 has joined. 17:25:06 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:26:47 -!- password2 has joined. 17:28:01 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:29:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:30:02 -!- password2 has joined. 17:30:27 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:31:55 -!- password2 has joined. 17:32:22 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:02:08 -!- toxolotl has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:02:27 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:17:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:27:33 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:32:59 Um, did the C standards people know they were asking the compiler to solve the halting problem? 18:33:49 C isn't Turing-complete, so probably not. 18:34:47 C is not infinitly extendable? 18:34:56 shachaf: it can be, nothing in the definition of files prevents them being infinitely long 18:34:59 infinitely i meant. 18:35:01 and that's the only sticking point 18:35:08 ais523 wins. 18:35:13 Good point. If C is compiled for a computer with 64K ram, could a modern computer detect all cases of overflow? 18:35:47 ais523: I thought the C99 definition of files didn't allow for infinitely long files. 18:36:02 Because you can always get the current position. 18:36:07 shachaf: a file position's an opaque object, though 18:36:17 so that only places a limit on how many times you can request the file position 18:36:21 doesn't it require off_t to be an integer of some kind? 18:36:24 But it still has to fit in memory. 18:36:37 off_t is a struct on some systems, I think 18:36:46 shachaf: a file position? yes, but it doesn't have to be meaningful 18:37:14 ais523: well that sure fucks up some code i've written! 18:37:29 well, there are two file position functions 18:38:08 one returns an integer but might not work on large files 18:38:11 the other returns an opaque struct 18:38:47 actually the integers are allowed to be opaque too, and are on some weird platforms 18:38:49 but aren't on POSIX 18:39:47 structs!! 18:40:57 I seems that GCC does us the service of saying they are integers. 18:41:24 gcc just reacts to what the type actually is 18:41:32 rather than what it potentially could be 18:42:00 oh, right. I mean glibc not gcc 18:42:58 anyway I was using the integerness to skip to particular files within an archive and read them 18:43:56 that's common, and if you open the file as a binary file, nearly always works 18:44:52 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 18:48:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:49:16 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 18:49:19 oren: Not having to be meaningful fucks up Your Code? What the Fuck? 18:49:43 .o0(Platform Games vs. Racing Games) 18:49:44 "fuck" is a noun? 18:49:48 I always thought it was a verb 18:49:49 No Idea. 18:49:49 -!- Welo has joined. 18:49:53 I am no native Speaker. 18:50:22 WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn] has both Noun and Verb. 18:50:51 well, English doesn't have a rule of capitalizing nouns anyway, so it normally doesn't matter which it is when you're using "fuck" as part of an interjection 18:50:57 „Adam knew Eve” 18:51:11 s/”/“/ 18:51:16 I see. 18:51:19 although you are at least consistent about it, and it gives you a style of your own 18:51:27 Thanks. 18:53:30 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:55:28 -!- GeekDude has joined. 18:59:15 Fuck can be a noun or verb. 19:03:40 True. 19:28:10 oren: where does the C standard ask the compiler to solve the halting problem? 19:28:11 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:28:34 When you want to make table/infobox/etc on wiki, you should try to do data-oriented coding, such as to allow to put SQL codes or RDF graphs (or both) with each page, and then other templates and pages can query it. 19:43:41 oren: ais523: off_t (which is part of POSIX, not C) does need to be an integral type. fpos_t, which is what fgetpos/fsetpos use, can be something more complicated. 19:44:21 fizzie: aha 19:46:09 So C is Turing-complete. 19:46:16 (off_t is used by the file-descriptor-level lseek and some others.) 19:46:51 Can it be something more complicated which represents an unbounded position in a file? 19:46:56 APic\splat: bleh, you're confusing me, both of those nouns /are/ capitalized naturally in English 19:47:06 so the sentence doesn't look any different from normal ;-) 19:47:30 (C is an abbreviation, Turing is a person's name) 19:47:42 the "C" standard 19:48:16 Is C an abbreviation? 19:48:42 It's a letter out of "BCPL", allegedly. 19:48:55 tswett: it's the second letter of "BCPL" which stands for "Basic Computer Programming Language" 19:49:03 Combined, not Computer. 19:49:09 (Assuming Wikipedia is right.) 19:49:12 huh, I guess you're right there 19:49:16 ais523: I did not know that. 19:49:21 so I guess that C is an abbreviation for Combined 19:49:25 ATWP! ATWP! 19:49:27 Fuck! 19:49:30 the book I learned compiler construction from had most of its examples in BCPL 19:49:41 it's an interesting language, with some pretty bizarrely named keywords 19:49:55 e.g. "test then or" rather than "if then else" 19:50:07 shachaf: Probably nothing can be more complicated than the „C-Standard“. 19:50:25 When does real English use "else" to mean "otherwise"? 19:50:32 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:50:53 tswett: it's colloquial, I think 19:51:04 not really correct but you hear it in casual conversation sometimes 19:52:15 ais523: I think some old language uses "whentrue" and "whenfalse" but I'm not sure 19:52:21 for "then" and "else" 19:52:48 probably one of those old languages that still have three-way equal-greater-less branches 19:52:48 that's INTERCAL levels of verbosity :-) 19:53:02 ais523: no, those are single tokens, single column on the card 19:53:11 Smalltalk? 19:53:17 dunno 19:53:20 maybe 19:53:21 I guess that's ifTrue: ifFalse: 19:53:28 yes, maybe that 19:54:36 Forth has the words 'if', 'then' and 'else', but due to the "syntax", it can sound a bit strange when read, since the equivalent of C a(); if (b()) then c(); else d(); e(); looks somewhat like a b IF c ELSE d THEN e 19:55:04 fizzie: yep 19:55:09 (Some people use 'ENDIF' in place of 'THEN' because of that.) 19:55:22 fizzie: not much worse than python's in-expression conditional though 19:55:34 new style, not golf and-or 19:55:47 how does that look exactly these days? 19:56:19 Right, the one where "a ? b : c" maps to "b if a else c". 19:56:52 python is ridiculous hth 19:57:04 "a and b or c" is possibly clearer, although it doesn't work if b is falsy 19:57:13 It can look exceedingly silly if you mix it with comprehensions, which also have the 'if' condition for filtering. 19:57:42 Was "b if a else c" introduced in 2 or 3? 19:58:05 And having a nested x for e in l for x in e thing can be nasty too. 19:58:13 If it's still in 3, then I think that's reason enough to pull a Python 3 a second time. 19:58:41 I have seen Forth systems with THEN built-in, ENDIF built-in, both built-in, and neither built-in (but one or the other defined in the standard library); still if you have THEN or ENDIF you can easily define the other if you want it. (I have seen one that has ENDIF built-in but defines THEN in the standard library to have the same meaning as ENDIF does.) 19:58:51 And it would be called... 19:58:54 "Python Threedux" 19:59:11 [x for s in l for x in s] is arguably an "idiom" for flattening l. 20:00:26 `run python -c 'l = [(1, 2), (3, 4, 5), (6, 7)]; print [x for s in l for x in s]' 20:00:31 ​[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7] 20:01:12 > let l = [[1,2],[3,4,5],[6,7]] in [x | s <- l, x <- s] 20:01:15 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7] 20:01:17 Haskell's do-notation is like a kind of generalization of that though 20:01:29 So it is not limit to lists 20:02:55 zzo38: and there's qbasic, which doesn't usually ignore spaces, but defines ENDIF and END IF as equivalent for historical reasons 20:03:36 Yes, I know that 20:03:39 but BASIC generally has crazy keywords 20:03:46 In the QBASIC IDE if you type "ENDIF" it will automatically change it to "END IF" 20:04:10 zzo38: only if you enable autoformatting, the default, which also changes a = b + c to a=b + c 20:04:16 so I turn that off 20:04:17 And if you type a question mark it will replace it with "PRINT" for you. However, the compiler doesn't accept a question mark. (The FreeBasic compiler does, but the QuickBasic compiler doesn't accept it) 20:04:36 the compiler doesn't accept the question mark? strange 20:04:45 the question mark has been along for like forever 20:05:02 as long as character-based free syntax basic probably 20:05:09 -!- bb010g has joined. 20:05:24 QBASIC also changes square brackets into parentheses 20:05:29 then there's the commodore 64 which allows print or pri or pR iirc 20:05:45 zzo38: what? I never tried that 20:05:50 where do square brackets even come from? 20:05:55 are those used in any basic? 20:06:05 lemme test that 20:06:08 I don't know, but if you type in square brackets that is what it does. 20:07:16 zzo38: that the compiler doesn't accept ? would be strange because the immediate window does, and that window doesn't do autoformat 20:07:18 The compiler and IDE use a few differences in what it accepts. Only the IDE accepts a question mark for PRINT, and only the compiler accepts an underscore for line continuation. 20:07:30 b_jonas: Yes, I know the immediate window accepts it 20:08:01 Even without autoformatting it accepts ? in place of PRINT 20:09:20 hmm... where do I toggle autoformatting? there's a "Syntax Checking" option but that doesn't seem to do this 20:09:34 I do't think there is actually such an option 20:10:01 hmm, it actually inserts spaces around assignment 20:10:05 I dunno what I remembered 20:10:15 The main window (unless it is a "document" file type, used in QBX) will always do autoformatting, although sometimes it forgets to autoformat I don't know why 20:10:40 halp i did 10!! by mistake 20:10:54 wasn't there an option that both turned off autoformatting and let you see all subs at once as a single text? 20:11:11 J_Arcane: press control-C or click the interrupt button 20:11:20 J_Arcane: what language and ide? 20:11:28 Heh. Playing with Factor. 20:11:37 I've made the poor listener go to sleep. 20:11:42 kill -9 20:12:02 b_jonas: At least in QBX, if you tell it to load an additional file and tell it that the file is a "document", it will do that. However, it will not execute the file in that case. 20:12:15 -!- wundo has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 20:12:43 heck, this was long ago, I don't remember 20:13:18 maybe I just have to edit with an external editor and run with qbasic /run 20:13:32 Yes, that will do it 20:15:02 I still program DOS games in QBASIC. With a free implementation and the minimal emulation stuff to need, it can be done with that way too. If people try to do such thing I can even try to help with such thing too 20:15:25 -!- nys has joined. 20:16:35 I have made exactly one dos game in qbasic, it's not a very good one, its first two or three level works but then the last level is completely buggy or something because I didn't finish it 20:16:57 I made a lot though 20:17:19 but I have a couple of non-games 20:17:34 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:19:21 I also wrote a clone of the entire OASYS text-adventure-game system in QBASIC (this is because I had neither a disk nor a C compiler on the target computer) (it is even compatible with the official implementation too, except for save files) 20:19:49 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:58:10 hmmm... actually maybe all four levels work, sort of, and the game can be won, but the guy on the fourth level can shoots big bullets that show up for just one frame and always hit or something. 20:58:31 he also usually dodges the bullets you fire, but that's a feature. 20:58:40 that's why he's the boss. 20:59:23 also there's no double buffering so the whole thing flickers constantly as the screen is cleared and redrawn 21:01:25 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:01:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:03:19 hmm, let me try to add double-buffering 21:03:23 should be a five line fix 21:03:56 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:08:46 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:09:49 hmm, it does try to do double buffering, only somehow doesn't work 21:09:51 let me see why 21:11:04 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:18:36 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:24:04 I don't understand 21:33:18 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:44:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:45:17 mo'list 22:01:01 (http://www.mezzacotta.net/dinosaur/?comic=128 22:02:37 oerjan: huh, I was wondering earlier if mezacotta / lightning made of owls / etc. were still running 22:02:47 I guess mezzacotta itself is still running by definition 22:02:56 although perhaps it's effectively repeating itself all the time 22:03:09 lightning made of owls is a bit slow, although it's been picking up a little this week 22:03:11 ais523: there were like four new strips on lmmo this month, but not much before that 22:03:21 but it's always running in the sense that it accepts submissions 22:03:31 I should draw some stick figures and submit there too 22:04:09 ais523: however, it's got 2 new comics recently, one of which i just linked to. 22:04:42 the other is http://www.mezzacotta.net/pomh/ which is pretty weird, also unusually _not_ made by DMM at all 22:04:43 oerjan: luckily, there's a solution: a knife like in http://www.xkcd.com/248/ can get you out of not only a parenthetical or quote, but even a multipart mime file that has a delimiter that was chosen randomly and then you forgot it 22:04:46 I haven't even heard of "the dinosaur whiteboard" 22:04:58 ais523: new this year 22:05:03 ais523: yes, it's new 22:05:15 see its about page or something 22:05:21 http://www.mezzacotta.net/dinosaur/about.php 22:07:20 ais523: also, dmm decided to get on patreon, which was successful enought that he has started making new irregular webcomics 22:07:38 but not successful enough that he started making new esolangs? 22:07:51 i don't think he advertised that possibility. 22:08:04 I think it was quite open-ended about new projects 22:08:12 let me find it 22:08:27 https://www.patreon.com/dmmaus?ty=h "Other website diversions - bloggy things, gamey things, arty things." 22:08:30 hmm 22:08:39 "arty things" -- dunno 22:09:17 daniel temkin has a blog which I think is mostly looking at the concept of esolangs as an art form 22:09:22 ais523: also, square root of minus garfield is healthy as ever, the average backlog is several months 22:09:49 what I don't like about his Parteon support thing is that it seems a bit dishonest: 22:10:53 even with new Irregular Webcomic strips, his most popular project currently is Darths and Droids, and that's the one why people are going to support it, but he specifically doesn't advertise the Parteon donations on the Darths and Droids page because there's a very slim chance Disney might not like that 22:11:50 also, he started the Parteon donation drive with a news entry saying he "hasn't made a cent" from the comics before, or something, when he's specifically asked for no money, and all support to charity instead 22:11:51 also i find this bizarre http://www.mezzacotta.net/blockandroll/ 22:12:00 ( http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/1526.html is a joke of course) 22:12:00 (input):1:8: error: unexpected 22:12:00 Operator without known fixity: 22:12:00 ://, expected: space 22:12:00 http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/1526.html is a joke of course) 22:12:00 ^ 22:12:38 pretty sure that one is older than darths & droids, anyhow 22:12:46 oerjan: sure 22:12:48 and older than disney's takeover 22:13:01 definitely 22:13:05 and iwc doesn't use screencaps 22:13:08 which is a big difference 22:13:17 it might have had a few low resolution photos of book covers of course 22:13:37 http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/147.html is quite funny 22:13:49 no wait I maen http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/108.html 22:14:25 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:16:49 Planet of the Hats is still on, but has some breaks when dmm is on a vacation 22:26:02 -!- variable has joined. 22:28:39 meh, esolangs. I don't need to deliberately create esolangs, because I find so many esoteric corners of langs not intended to be esoteric. 22:28:51 -!- boily has joined. 22:28:56 I'd like to understand those corners, and use them. 22:30:16 b_jonas: you like languages like compile time C++? 22:30:31 sure 22:31:05 well, not compile-time-only C++, but run-time C++ with a lot of things done in compile time 22:31:17 but yes, even compile time C++ amazes me 22:31:29 like that recent stateful constexpr function trick 22:31:58 bood evenily 22:31:59 that one is crazy and people might even consider it a defect in the standard that should be fixed, I dunno 22:34:10 does that trick actually work on compilers? 22:34:22 ais523: I don't know, but I suspect it does 22:34:36 at least on recent compilers 22:35:24 ais523: wait, what do you count as "work" 22:35:55 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:36:00 anyway, I think it would work fsvo work, but I haven't tested 22:38:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:40:27 børjan sørjan. 22:40:33 @massages-loud 22:40:33 shachaf asked 23h 35m 53s ago: what do you think of smoke's poutinerie twh 22:40:33 oerjan said 23h 29m 10s ago: NOOO don't leave i cannot interpret your xsampa even with wikipedia :( 22:40:33 oerjan said 23h 22m 42s ago: My two theories are: (1) you're trying to write bonsoerjan but have no idea what the phonetic symbols mean (2) you're actually using some african click language with a slight misprint on the 0 22:41:23 shellochaf. never wen't to. apparently very divisive, therefore a must. 22:41:54 boily: there's one a short walk away from where i live 22:42:00 but it doesn't seem to be my thing 22:42:04 but maybe i should try again 22:42:05 oerjan: I wrote bonsœrjan, with some creatively inserted clicks. 22:42:39 shachaf: afaik, there aren't any smoke's in Québec. I'd have to go to Ontario. 22:42:48 coppro: chelloppro. have you ever smoke'sed? 22:42:53 boily: or berkeley hth 22:43:54 imo you should come visit and have some poutine 22:44:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley,_Ontario ? 22:44:04 there's also one in mont-tremblant hth 22:44:11 ah bin! 22:44:26 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley,_California 22:44:39 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:45:44 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 22:46:20 there's ones around here 22:46:22 in nova scotia 22:46:34 well, there's one in halifax at least 22:50:36 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:51:32 nyellos. have I ever asked you the The Question? 22:52:46 boily: did i ever answer? 22:52:57 probably not, so i don't need to update my answer now that i've moved 22:53:23 no, you never did. you are probably the Most Reluctantest Person about the The Question. 22:53:54 i don't know what my body weigh is 22:54:14 i know what's written on my government identity card, but they didn't actually weigh me, they just believed what i wrote 22:54:24 ha ha! 22:54:30 and i wrote it based on what was written on my previous government identity card 22:54:35 which was 6 years ago 22:55:05 almost 7 22:55:07 so who knows 22:55:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:55:56 copumpkin can give you an estimate, maybe 22:56:04 shachaf: so basically it contains your birth weight, right? 22:56:05 I'll write in you weight as '7 years ago'. 22:56:23 no way, i'm not telling you what's written on that card 22:56:30 you could steal my identity 22:56:55 i'm gonna dress like a baby and pretend to be you on haskell conferences! 22:57:03 oerjan: i don't remember ever being born hth 22:57:11 shachaf: wow you too? 22:57:14 whoa whoa whoa, you're going to haskell conferences? 22:57:20 which ones? 22:57:30 well i'd have to start 22:57:43 you should come to bayhac 22:57:52 -!- augur has joined. 22:57:57 jun 12, mountain view, ca 22:58:06 12-24 22:58:08 12-14 22:58:10 whatever 22:58:35 boily can come too 23:02:07 boily: no I haven't smoked sed 23:02:19 oh we mean the poutine place? 23:02:21 no 23:07:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:09:52 -!- augur has joined. 23:13:33 My arms or kinda sore 23:13:36 *are 23:14:31 (I went climbing this afternoon for the first time in ages) 23:15:18 coppro: Banquise, then? 23:15:25 Tanelle. rock climbing? 23:15:43 Yeah, bouldering to be precise 23:17:00 nice! do you boulder in groups? 23:17:17 I went with some friends, yeah 23:17:23 Probably gonna go back next week, too 23:17:46 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:18:51 Man, I need to exercise more 23:21:14 anybody know where vanila went? >.> 23:26:55 @seen vanila 23:26:55 I saw vanila leaving ##crypto 12d 47m 21s ago. 23:27:24 sounds like a sketchy room... 23:27:45 how can it be sketchy when lambdabot is there 23:27:48 boily: Banquise I've had 23:27:54 ##crypto is great because sometimes people join and try to sell bitcoin scams. 23:27:56 I also quite like Les Trois Brasseurs' poutine 23:28:19 coppro: Unfortunately those aren't options here. 23:28:27 I'm going to be doing a module in crypto next year 23:28:50 shachaf: where is here? 23:28:53 coppro: my favourite here is the Broue Pub's Poutiflette. it's a mix between a poutine, and a Swiss tartiflette. 23:28:56 Berkeley, CA 23:28:59 boily: interesting 23:29:04 shachaf: hmm, I imagine it isn't 23:29:16 Smoke's is an option, though. 23:30:14 coppro: but you should taste my friend's poutineer: you start with a poutine layer, then top it with homemade egg curry. 23:30:36 `? poutine 23:31:01 Poutine was Pouti and boily's sister until the tragic cheese accident. 23:31:08 Makes sense 23:31:23 poutine is just jammed up french fries 23:31:26 wisdom 23:31:28 (seriously, what is poutine?) 23:31:49 shachaf, jammed up as in you put jam on them? 23:31:58 usually you don't jam them up with jam 23:32:08 hmm, what are "cheese curds" then 23:32:09 but with some sort of gravy 23:32:12 `wisdom 23:32:14 list/list is a fun program that HackEgo has! Run it with `list and join the fun! 23:32:27 Oooh, it's like chips and gravy 23:32:38 aww, out of date 23:32:41 `wisdom 23:32:42 fentimans/fentimans is a delicious beverage out from Hexham, that can be paired with a fresh fternooner for a nutritive midday snack. 23:32:48 `wisdom 23:32:51 lorem ipsum/Business Internet the it China Product Product NATO 23:32:53 hm 23:33:01 Man, I haven't had any fentimans in ages 23:33:04 Not since like monday 23:33:05 oh, it seems to be similar to coffee cheese 23:33:18 `? croissont supplier 23:33:19 See misspellings of croissant 23:33:38 `? misspellings of croissant 23:33:39 misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:34:00 I kind of want poutine now 23:34:04 Except I don't like gravy 23:34:10 Taneb: come to berkeley and get some hth 23:34:26 shachaf, I'm busy until next monday 23:34:27 a grave mistake 23:35:17 Taneb: ok next monday then 23:35:18 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 23:35:20 Taneb: real poutine has poutine sauce. it's similar to a light bbq sauce. cheese curds should be fresh, and squeak under your teeth. 23:35:39 boily, hmm, that could work 23:35:39 boily: what does real vegetarian poutine have 23:35:48 squeaking in terror 23:35:59 shachaf, can you pay my bus fare? I'm a bit low on funds 23:36:10 And other transport costs 23:36:16 Taneb: from the airport? sure 23:36:30 shachaf, but the airport is like all the way on the other side of Leeds 23:37:24 Can you also pay my bus fare to the airport 23:37:54 sounds reasonable 23:37:59 shachaf: well... potatoes is vegetarian, sauce is vegetarian, cheese is vegetarian too... I guess you could replace the cheese with tofu, but I doubt it's going to be strong or stringy enough for the poutine mélange. 23:38:04 (perhaps a natt 23:38:07 sauce is vegetarian? 23:38:12 ō poutine should do the trick?) 23:38:18 usually poutine sauce isn't as far as i can tell 23:38:21 huh? 23:38:47 grilled flour, paprika, cumin, lots of water, a little bit of ketchup, more paprika? 23:39:00 huh, no gravy in the gravy sauce? 23:39:10 "Brown gravy: Traditionally a light and thin chicken, veal, or turkey gravy" 23:39:19 s/flour,/flour, margarine,/ 23:39:31 poutine sauce isn't brown gravy. it's poutine sauce. 23:39:42 (tsé, messemble que c't'ivident...) 23:39:54 smoke's has poutine and also vegetarian poutine 23:40:04 and deluxe vegetarian poutine 23:40:09 ah? 23:40:12 i had the deluxe but maybe i should try the ordinary 23:40:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:41:08 Might go with a vegetable stock instead in the gravy. That'd *work*. 23:41:24 I'm pretty sure that "poutine sauce" is *a* gravy. 23:41:44 If not exactly matching what you'd typically want from a brown gravy. 23:41:57 `? fternoon 23:41:57 fternoon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:42:03 `wisdom 23:42:04 languabe/Languabes are edible and fun. They provide a quick implementation energy boost! 23:42:05 `? fternooner 23:42:06 fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”) is a screamingly delicious pastry. 23:42:08 `? fternooner 23:42:09 fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”) is a screamingly delicious pastry. 23:42:44 `wisdom 23:42:46 kallisti/kallisti is a former prophet swearing off his pastry deity 23:43:00 `learn Fternoon is the time of day when the Danes usually eat their fternooners. 23:43:02 `? ngevd 23:43:03 Learned 'fternoon': Fternoon is the time of day when the Danes usually eat their fternooners. 23:43:03 ​˻ oerjan: is that the same as brillig? twh 23:43:50 perhaps they eat their fternooners in the wabe 23:45:28 shachaf: no, brillig is English hth 23:46:18 I think brillig is fter the fternoon 23:49:06 `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/kallisti 23:49:08 No output. 23:49:27 `? kallisti 23:49:28 kallisti is a former prophet swearing off his pastry deity. 23:49:36 `? kallisti/kallisti 23:49:37 kallisti/kallisti? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:49:49 why did `wisdom write that twice? 23:49:58 having no punctuation messes up `learn_append 23:50:03 It's the name of the entry. 23:50:06 `wisdom 23:50:08 fact/facts are lies. They are not there. Go away! 23:50:15 olsner: because the entry does not need to contain the name 23:50:19 what happened to kallisti 23:50:25 `wisdom 23:50:27 burlesque/Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque) 23:50:39 aka cake prophet anon amaranth ae i 23:50:40 Phantom_Hoover: he faded away? 23:50:40 wait 23:50:43 right, but it usually does, and then it looks ugly 23:50:43 @seen kallisti 23:50:43 I haven't seen kallisti. 23:51:05 How would you have it behave? 23:51:13 Seeing the entry without its name can be confusing. 23:51:18 This format is slashlearn-compatible. 23:51:23 slashlearn is too good 23:51:26 hellolsner. your last sentence was fungottian hth 23:51:27 boily: any questions that we agreed that we ever. robert paul i 23:51:45 fungot: no, we never have agreed on anything. at all. *wink wink* 23:51:45 boily: true. pleasant.. 23:51:54 slashlearn? I'm out of date with the times, it seems 23:52:01 shachaf: i think the more normal way would be to separate with colon-space 23:52:13 what oerjan said 23:52:15 oerjan: but what about entries with colon-space in their name hth 23:52:36 do we have any 23:52:41 `? : 23:52:42 ​: ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:52:50 `? *:* 23:52:51 ​*:*? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:53:07 yes hth 23:53:15 olsner: no regezxes, and _certainly_ no globs. 23:53:18 `? real fast nora's hair salon 3: shear disaster download 23:53:19 *-z 23:53:19 Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is the most readable functional programming language out there. 23:53:29 shachaf: hm i see 23:53:56 `? regez 23:53:57 regez? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:55:39 of course / isn't perfect 23:55:42 it should be // 23:55:50 and slashlearn should be fixed to use // too 23:56:02 `wisdom 23:56:03 rincewind/Rincewind is a wizzard. He likes potatoes. 23:56:17 `wisdom 23:56:18 password/The password of the month is 'PlayItSweetly,TakeMeDown,Oh,Jazzman' 23:56:44 * oerjan is waiting to see an entry where an s got stripped off a singular. 23:56:52 `? walru 23:56:52 walru? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:57:01 `? walrus 23:57:02 walrus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:57:16 `wisdom 23:57:17 nak/ 23:57:22 hm 23:57:24 `wisdom 23:57:25 chu space/A Chu space is just a matrix. Taneb invented them, then Chu stole his invention. 23:57:40 `wisdom 23:57:41 list/list is a fun program that HackEgo has! Run it with `list and join the fun! 23:57:41 Taneb: want to talk about Chu spaces? 23:57:48 `wisdom 23:57:48 `? anana 23:57:49 unicide/Unicide is when people can't read your suicide note because they lack the proper font. 23:57:49 ananas is the real pineapple. 23:57:56 boily: oh, before I forget, what was so fungotty? 23:57:56 olsner: " on the street. how do we get you the updated list the employees. 23:57:59 oerjan, there you go, ananas 23:58:02 pardon me boys, is this the chattanooga chu chu 23:58:13 shachaf, I am afraid Chu stole all my memories of Chu spaces 23:58:21 do you want to learn 23:58:39 olsner: I had spontaneous trouble while parsing your sentence. 23:58:40 `? ches 23:58:40 did Taneb invent chu spaces 23:58:40 ches? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:58:44 did Taneb invent hott 23:58:47 did Taneb invent me 23:58:50 fuck 23:58:53 boily: ok, that can happen 23:58:59 Phantom_Hoover, you're not that hott 23:59:05 Taneb: i meant i was waiting for `wisdom to do it, it's not funny otherwise 23:59:10 Ooooh 23:59:22 `? chesss 23:59:22 amaranth anon anu anon anew AE taneb 23:59:27 Chess is a complex boardgame, where players exchange unclear royal steaks until they decide which of them has lost. The game is recorded through the Gringmuth Moving Pineapple Notation. 23:59:28 Why does the Windows 95 installer know what NTFS is? (In terms of an error message mentioning it) 2015-06-03: 00:00:02 o.O NT was released before 95 00:00:06 Taneb: if you solve the Chu space crossword puzzle at , you could win $2000 from Vaughan Pratt 00:00:20 Taneb: that's enough for air fare to berkeley, where you can have poutine 00:00:27 Sgello_. NT was released before??? 00:00:37 shachaf, this sounds like a plan which doesn't have any flaws whatsoever 00:01:01 the plan with no flaw is not the true plan. 00:01:20 Taneb invent the true plan 00:01:28 Yeah, NT was released in '93. 00:03:03 There's not *much* reason Windows 95 couldn't have used NTFS (aside from the obvious one of "oh sweet jesus we don't want to change more than we have to, cause Windows software be crazy.") 00:03:09 I wonder if NTFS isn't older than NT, or if it was only known as HPFS at that time 00:03:20 for a true plan, you should ask Jim from darths & droids, unfortunately he's also in california so it won't help here. 00:03:21 NTFS is a fork of HPFS. 00:03:25 NTFS probably required proper OS features 00:03:33 like, virtual memory perhaps? 00:03:34 shachaf, is that asking whether the language defined has countable members? 00:04:04 olsner: Win95 has virtual memory. 00:04:28 Taneb, imho maybe 00:04:36 Also, I doubt it. You could quite reasonably write an aftermarket NTFS for DOS thing. :) 00:05:36 yeah :) I meant more that the code for NTFS required ... stuff, not that the file system itself somehow does 00:06:14 (well, I don't think it's technically a language in the infinite case, but...) 00:06:49 I think the Win95 installer wants scratch space 00:07:47 I don't think the Win98 installer DOS has format.exe 00:09:15 Taneb: whoa whoa whoa 00:09:20 Proposed solution (March 23, 2015) 00:09:28 i never saw that 00:14:04 Ooh the Win98 installer formats the disk automatically, I could try that 00:16:47 I think the little "This is why windows is great" things is tied to fily copy progress 00:16:51 They go by too fast to read 00:17:18 Sgeo_: what are you trying to do here? 00:17:40 Wanted to install Windows 95 to a VM. Gave up for a bit so installing Windows 98 to a VM 00:17:53 Glad I did because the 98 installer will do what I need for 95, I think 00:19:59 -!- toxolotl has joined. 00:20:18 OK 00:20:19 `relcome toxolotl 00:20:27 ​toxolotl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 00:20:40 I was worried that it was something insane like needing a disk formatted as FAT16 and Windows 95 was the only program old enough to do it 00:21:07 I remember when we only had the Windows 95 upgrade edition. 00:21:19 So we'd need to put in the Windows 3.11 floppy in order to install. 00:21:28 Sgeo_: with a windows 9x VM you could get ms comic chat going (though it does tend to crash on normal IRC traffic) 00:21:41 Or maybe it was both Windows 95 and Windows 98 upgrade editions? 00:21:45 It was a big mess, anyway. 00:22:28 ais523, I was dumb enough to grant a program on the WIndows 95 disk (that I don't know where it came from so might be genuine) admin on my real 8.1 machine in hopes that it would work. It bluescreened me, and hopefully was just a bad compatibility issue and not actual malware from 2007 00:22:36 *so might not be genuine 00:23:14 Although if you were to plant malware in a pirated OS, I think you'd go for the OS itself, not in the CDEXPO program 00:23:27 Sgeo_: if it is actual malware from 2007, then any modern antivirus should be able to find it 00:23:55 also, why would malware from 2007 end up on a windows 95 disk? 00:24:18 I obtained the .iso file in 2007. I don't remember where I obtained it from. 00:26:24 ais523: Literally anything that can do FAT can do FAT 16 though. 00:26:27 Yay Win95 setup wrking 00:26:50 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 00:26:56 pikhq: including formatting programs? 00:26:59 Fun fact: FAT32 has a *minimum* volume size of 32MB. 00:27:23 Eh, Win95 wants a "20-digit Product Identification Number" 00:27:58 Sgeo_: that's printed on the CD case, I think 00:28:07 or on the computer 00:28:27 As a consequence of that, pretty much anything has to do FAT16 just to handle the full range of volume sizes. 00:28:50 what about ext2? can you sensibly format a floppy like that? 00:29:12 Yes. 00:29:39 FAT32 is unique in having a minimum volume size (beyond "large enough to fit fundamental data structures") 00:29:57 (also, I have *done* such a floppy) 00:30:35 What's slightly trickier would be a FAT12 formatter. 00:30:48 Though IIRC Windows' formatter and mkdosfs both do that. 00:30:50 I didn't know there was a FAT12 00:31:16 floppy disks 00:31:34 As well as very (very) old hard drives. 00:31:46 max size 20 mb 00:32:12 But yeah, floppies in FAT are FAT12 as a rule. 00:33:41 Somewhat unrelatedly, fuck ExFAT. 00:34:32 what's wrong with exfat? nobody ever tells me 00:34:56 MS asserts unspecified patents on it making it impractical to implement in a sane fashion. 00:35:24 ... Erm. In a sane fashion for many vendors. 00:36:21 huh, Perl now has a warning for trying to create an infinitely long string using syntax like "a" x "Inf" 00:36:27 I wonder what that did before 00:36:40 IMO it should just create an infinitely long string, but I guess I'm in the minority here 00:37:06 why is linux ntfs support so slow? 00:37:36 i mean, write speeds 00:38:16 Linux NTFS write support is relatively new, that might be related but I'm not sure 00:38:50 Are we talking the kernel NTFS or the FUSE one? 00:39:07 whichever ubuntu 15.04 uses 00:39:15 Probably the FUSE one then. 00:39:22 huh, I would have guessed kernel 00:39:24 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 00:47:03 "Code like /$a[/ used to read the next line of input and treat it as though it came immediately after the opening bracket." 00:47:07 wow that's a weird bug 00:47:11 sort-of like Shellshock 00:47:31 I wonder if it works in interpolated code? I'm guessing no without an eval, in which case it's unexpolitable 00:48:08 oh, unexploitable anyway; it lets bits of the code you can't control affect bits of the code you can, which is the opposite of exploitable, really 00:48:19 most you could potentially do is get hold of what one line of source looks like 00:48:54 I have a chart of OEM keys, but I don't know which version of Windows 95 this is 00:49:31 If the bits of code you can't control attempts to process the bits of code you can, could htat be a problem? 00:50:05 Sgeo_: What are the options of versions? 00:50:22 `perl -e print 33 x ~3 00:50:23 panic: memory wrap at -e line 1. 00:50:43 Windows 95 OEM Version, Windows 95 OEM Version (02) ... (16) 00:50:46 apparently that's actually the intended output 00:50:49 It's definitely an OEM version 00:54:33 I think they all work 00:54:36 `perl -e "${< Can't find string terminator "X" anywhere before EOF at -e line 1. 00:54:45 `perl --version 00:54:46 ​ \ This is perl 5, version 14, subversion 2 (v5.14.2) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ (with 88 registered patches, see perl -V for more detail) \ \ Copyright 1987-2011, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit 00:54:51 aha, too early to crash 00:55:24 "System error Cannot read from drive A" 00:55:27 `perl -e s/${<>{}}// 00:55:28 syntax error at -e line 1, near "<>{" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. 00:55:39 wait 00:55:42 `perl -e s/${<>{})// 00:55:43 syntax error at -e line 1, near "<>{" \ Missing right curly or square bracket at -e line 1, within pattern \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. 00:55:53 what a bizarre line of code 00:56:00 although it's managing not to crash 00:58:10 So now two CD drives attached, Win98 in first one, Win95 in second 01:01:03 Windows Protection Error 01:02:31 I think I've written a (deliberately bad) fizzbuzz which runs in O(n^5) time 01:03:13 ! 01:03:58 No, only O(n^4) I think 01:05:02 Taneb: is it plausible-looking code, or does it have no obvious scope for optimization? 01:05:21 ais523, it's plausible code written by a Haskell beginner 01:05:40 Who is new to programming 01:05:52 There is so much obvious room for optimization 01:06:29 hmm, now I'm wondering what the computational order of a Prolog FizzBuzz that doesn't use "is" is 01:06:34 written in the most obvious way 01:06:35 Putting an execution cap of 20% worked 01:06:38 probably O(n^2) 01:06:49 So I guess the CPU's too fast. There is a patch for it, not sure if I should bother 01:08:39 Experimentally, it seems roughly O(n^3.3) 01:11:35 Which seems odd 01:11:48 compiler optimizations? cache effects? 01:12:03 Maybe... 01:12:06 * Sgeo_ puts down Win95 for now 01:12:39 I don't want to run this with -O0, though, it took 4 minutes for n=3000 (no options to GHC), and I'm running it with n=4000 now 01:13:33 Why is a restart required between partitioning and formatting? 01:15:01 since whe? 01:15:04 *when 01:15:09 ais523, I'm just surprised it's a non-integer exponent 01:15:38 Looking at the program I think it's probably quartic 01:15:43 noninteger exponents aren't that uncommon are they? 01:16:05 Phantom_Hoover, I've never really encountered them? 01:16:32 i remember some Big Important Algorithm having one but not what it was 01:16:33 4^.5? 01:16:45 Lyka, since DOS or Windows98's DOS or something 01:16:50 an obvious practical example though is the trace of a matrix with n entries 01:17:17 Phantom_Hoover: matrix multiplication? 01:17:17 though you normally use side length as the n with matrix algorithms... 01:17:54 x^(y/z) = (z_root(x))^y 01:17:56 oerjan, probably that, yeah 01:19:18 "The current O(n^k) algorithm with the lowest known exponent k is a generalization of the Coppersmith–Winograd algorithm that has an asymptotic complexity of O(n^2.3728639), by François Le Gall." 01:19:41 although some people suspect the limit is actually 2 01:19:46 iirc 01:19:47 what does "polynomial time" mean? 01:20:00 Lyka: in time bounded by a polynomial of input size 01:20:35 O(n^k) execution time, more or less 01:21:29 you can always use n^k because any other polynomial has one of those as an upper bound (once n > 1) 01:22:06 (note n is the input size and k is a constant) 01:26:57 -!- Hallucinate_ has joined. 01:27:15 `welcome Hallucinate_ 01:27:16 Hallucinate_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 01:27:28 ais523, http://lpaste.net/4279646507705040896 is the source if you want to look 01:28:13 let's see 01:28:19 isFizz and isBuzz are O(n) 01:28:29 Taneb: you think a newbie could manage to get NPlusKPatterns working? i guess e might be using hugs. 01:28:48 oerjan, it's in a bunch of older tutorials 01:29:12 Taneb: haha at that mapM_ 01:29:15 that's just really blatant :-) 01:29:42 ais523, it's the kind of mistake I could imagine myself having made 01:30:13 what I'm confused by is if the ++ in the fizzbuzz function "stacks" with the isFizz and isBuzz being inefficient 01:30:25 the long list is on the left, so this is O(n^2) 01:30:40 but I think it leads to a combined O(n^2) for fizzbuzz, not O(n^3) 01:30:41 -!- Hallucinate_ has changed nick to Hallucinate. 01:30:46 I think ++ needs to go through the left, and to know the length of the left it has to do isFizz and isBuzz 01:31:16 oh I see 01:31:24 ais523, yeah, and then the last is O(n), and it does it n times 01:31:29 what's wrong about the mapM_ 01:31:29 you have the same length in both branches of the case 01:31:40 ais523, depends if GHC spots that or not 01:31:59 oerjan, the function being mapped is what's wrong 01:32:16 oerjan: Taneb already has a function to generate a list of fizzbuzzes, but he's creating a list of each possible length and then mapping last over it 01:32:22 And that 01:32:41 mapM_ itself is a perfectly reasonable function, but that use of it is ridiculous 01:32:52 or, well, it's actually one of the comonad laws on List, if you read the lists backwards 01:33:12 hm right 01:33:33 also, i think that use of ++ is O(n^2) overhead 01:33:45 right associative 01:34:38 comonad laws on List? 01:34:54 You mean the comonad in Mon you get from the adjunction? 01:35:11 shachaf: List as a comonad, one of the comonad operations (M x -> x) is head, and the other (M x -> M M x) is a list of all suffixes of the input list 01:35:19 I don't know what you mean, I'm at my phone and missed falls the conversation. 01:35:23 err, this works on nonempty lists only 01:35:28 Oh, noon-empty lists. 01:35:44 Taneb's doing basically that in reverse: prefixes and last 01:36:06 What's the comonad I described called? 01:36:32 I'm not aware of a name for it 01:36:37 or even knew it existed 01:40:21 -!- Hallucinate has quit (Quit: Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm). 01:40:23 since it's in Mon it only works if Monoid x, i take 01:40:37 M = [] 01:40:49 (M x -> x) would be mconcat 01:40:53 :t mconcat 01:40:54 Monoid a => [a] -> a 01:41:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: EPICHOROID CHICKEN). 01:41:32 oerjan, I think what would was described would be mconcat . reverse 01:41:36 (M x -> M (M x)), what's that 01:41:52 Taneb: i don't think shachaf included reversal 01:42:13 oerjan, ais523 said if you read the lists backwards, which I was trying to include 01:42:17 Anyway... 01:42:28 Taneb: shachaf's comment wasn't directly relevant to your code 01:44:25 OK 01:44:55 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 01:44:58 So, what's the verdict on the complexity of my fizzbuzz? 01:45:32 hm 01:45:54 only the last element gets isFizz etc. evaluated 01:46:03 Booting from CD into HD broke the VM... but blue screened even when I got rid of that 01:46:09 oerjan, are you sure? 01:46:56 oh wait right 01:47:02 NO 01:47:06 hth 01:47:31 oerjan: map (:[])? 01:48:25 shachaf: either that or just (:[])? i cannot wrap my brain around that much. 01:48:47 oerjan, the core for the program hasn't optimized the isFizz and isBuzz checks out 01:49:04 For non-last elements 01:50:27 ais523, depends if GHC spots that or not <-- i think because of bottom, ghc cannot legally do that 01:51:09 oerjan: can't it infer that isFizz and isBuzz are total? 01:51:23 or is it possible to create an infinitely large Integer in Haskell? 01:51:41 ais523, firstly, they take Int, not Integer 01:51:48 or even knew it existed <-- every adjunction between two categories gives a monad in one, and comonad in the other. 01:51:53 Also, if they took Integer, they would be undefined with n = -1 01:52:30 oh, good points 01:52:47 after a while doing esolangs, you kind-of forget negative numbers exist 01:52:49 they're so unnatural 01:53:30 `addquote after a while doing esolangs, you kind-of forget negative numbers exist they're so unnatural 01:53:34 1241) after a while doing esolangs, you kind-of forget negative numbers exist they're so unnatural 01:53:58 wow, I didn't even realise that was a pun until you `addquoted it 01:54:10 Even better 01:54:28 or is it possible to create an infinitely large Integer in Haskell? <-- nope, only bottom. 01:55:19 what would have been embarrassing would be if I'd missed the pun altogether 01:55:21 anyway, time to go home 01:56:32 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:58:31 ok, F U -> I, that's mconcat. I -> U F, that's (:[]) 01:59:27 Right. And you have FU->FUFU = F eta 01:59:46 So it maps (:[]) 01:59:54 This is pretty awkward on a phone. 02:01:06 F I U = F U -> F U F U = F (U F) U 02:01:27 /////////////////////////////////////// 02:01:27 + 02:01:28 so it should be F (:[]) U in a sense 02:01:31 ops 02:02:14 Yes, but (:[]) is polymorphic hth 02:03:50 it's just that my brain doesn't have quite the power to convince itself of the last step 02:05:46 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 02:08:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:08:20 -!- variable has joined. 02:09:13 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 02:09:45 -!- Herbalist has joined. 02:09:50 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:13:12 -!- variable has quit (Client Quit). 02:15:57 -!- variable has joined. 02:17:11 I'm going to go to sleep now, goodnight! 02:33:23 what's the function that turns a number like 77 (7 * 11) to 60 (6 * 10) ? 02:36:36 i mean from (x*y), where x and y are prime, to ((x-1)*(y-1)) 02:37:03 not sure if it has a name 02:37:36 oh wait 02:37:51 the euler totient function 02:38:23 however, if a prime can occur more than once, you need to be more specific. 02:38:38 or well 02:41:12 your definition isn't very clear on what to do for numbers _not_ of that form. 02:41:20 no idea 02:41:55 all i remembered involved semiprimes 02:41:57 but if you have two different primes x and y, the totient function fits. 02:42:13 and is what you need for RSA and the like 02:43:35 * Lyka is glad his "big brother", the NSA, is "supposed" to stop watching this channel... 02:44:00 this channel is publicly logged hth 02:44:39 (if you don't know what i mean by "Big Brother", see "1984") 02:44:43 oh 02:44:46 shit 02:44:57 i've read that book 02:45:18 long ago 02:45:23 i got cofused after the first sentence 02:45:28 *confused 02:45:36 but i read the wikipedia entry 02:45:48 for what 02:45:57 1984 02:46:35 "It was a bright cold day in april when the clocks struck 13." 02:46:47 i think that was the first line 02:47:16 got confused 02:51:11 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [). 02:53:29 * Lyka is currently recovering from being drugged by his doctors with cognitive-inhibiting side-effects for four years before it got bad enough that he forgot that his name belonged to him and was not just a nickname. 02:54:28 -!- bb010g has joined. 02:55:58 before i started on that medication, I used to shake like crazy. Sgeo probably reembers. 02:56:24 *remembers 03:02:44 what's the opposite of an extension? 03:02:59 contraction? 03:04:59 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:06:07 what kind of extension 03:07:02 reduction 03:21:40 oerjan: like an extension to a language 03:22:09 what's the term for a version of a language which removes, rather than adds, features 03:22:37 Apple? 03:23:24 heh 03:40:13 restriction? 03:40:36 Subset? 03:40:36 oren: ^ 03:54:38 night all 03:54:49 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 04:02:05 -!- hilquias has joined. 04:02:15 -!- hilquias has quit (Changing host). 04:02:16 -!- hilquias has joined. 04:19:05 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:19:34 -!- Wright has joined. 04:19:48 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:35:49 -!- password2 has joined. 05:02:26 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:13:25 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka|Phone. 05:14:09 hi 05:44:24 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:52:06 -!- Welo has joined. 06:04:13 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:10:51 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:25:01 night all 06:25:10 -!- Lyka|Phone has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 06:34:41 Lyka|Away: what kind of drugs did they put you on and what for? 06:35:26 * Taneb hello 06:57:14 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 07:03:26 The OTHER fizzbuzz I wrote, features a 250 character type signature 07:04:09 Consisting only of functions between type variables and a three-character type synonym 07:04:21 ((Num -> Num -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n) -> Num -> Num -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n) -> Num -> Num -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n 07:06:57 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:07:43 (with type Num = forall a. (a -> a) -> a -> a) 07:15:19 Oh.. of course.. 07:17:46 ? 07:24:06 I'm afraid to ask what that type signature does in your fizzbuzz 07:26:15 It's a fixed point combinator 07:39:29 :t fix (?f :: m -> m -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n) 07:39:31 Unbound implicit parameter 07:39:31 (?f::m1 07:39:31 -> m1 07:40:02 :t \f -> fix (f :: m -> m -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n) 07:40:04 Couldn't match expected type ‘m1 07:40:04 -> m1 07:40:04 -> (s1 -> n1 -> n1) 07:40:35 :t \f -> fix (f :: (m -> m -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n) -> (m -> m -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n)) 07:40:38 Couldn't match expected type ‘(m1 07:40:38 -> m1 07:40:38 -> (s1 -> n1 -> n1) 07:40:49 :t fix ?f :: m -> m -> (s -> n -> n) -> n -> (a -> s) -> (a -> a) -> a -> s -> s -> s -> n 07:40:51 Unbound implicit parameter 07:40:51 (?f::(m1 07:40:51 -> m1 07:40:53 :) 07:40:56 *:( 07:41:12 ):) 07:58:32 -!- edwardk has joined. 08:10:47 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 08:39:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:05:11 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 09:11:04 Taben's always abusing Haskell. 09:11:08 *Taneb 09:11:17 fungot: Do you abuse Haskell? 09:11:17 mroman_: are we also trying.' automated and must be in the form of the continue button. norris is a month.... in error! 09:15:03 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 09:16:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:20:21 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 09:22:22 -!- augur has joined. 10:30:08 -!- boily has joined. 10:30:33 ^echo > () 10:30:33 > () > () 10:30:37 False 10:30:58 > text "fungot" 10:30:58 Jafet: probably get an inventory of the right of the best to keep the california power market. 10:31:01 fungot 10:45:25 fungot? 10:45:25 boily: right where they left what i 10:45:37 fungot: good! 10:45:37 boily: know where the meeting on the construction industry."? 11 am. 10:46:10 fungot: no. but I got some obscure fuzzy meeting Thursday afternoon with our QC VP. 10:46:10 boily: next to equity. pete wilson both the financial deal that was from the new more efficient. 10:46:23 fungot: oh do you know anything about the calculus of constructions? 10:46:23 int-e: for that reason, the work of the sheet that you send to the top the ibm and america two countries separated and an expected time frame. 10:46:29 fungot: pete wilson. I'll remember. her name was pete wilson. 10:46:29 boily: bond issuance- 12b not enough that the business of new/ existing application systems or business trip you wish to have quicker to put you on the same for the other susan scott...i'm with nat gas spread in 2001 that will not let 10:46:50 int-ello. calculus of construction? 10:48:14 The Calculus of Constructions (CoC) is a type theory created by Thierry Coquand. ... I'm also hearing it's the basis of Coq. 10:49:33 but I asked fun‍got because it mentioned the construction industry. 10:50:31 fungot: well? 10:50:32 boily: they partially to increase. moritzburke associate oakland. dte energy trading and the will of the california legislature. 10:50:44 oh fun. x⃐y⃑ 10:51:13 and more fun. a⃖⃗ 10:53:06 it works c⃬⃑lockwise and c⃬⃐ounterclockwise 10:53:23 Constructive chicken. 10:53:29 except I messed up the arrow below the first c 10:53:45 ? 10:53:52 `unicode x⃐y⃑ 10:53:56 U+0078 LATIN SMALL LETTER X \ UTF-8: 78 UTF-16BE: 0078 Decimal: x \ x (X) \ Uppercase: U+0058 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+20D0 COMBINING LEFT HARPOON ABOVE \ UTF-8: e2 83 90 UTF-16BE: 20d0 Decimal: ⃐ \ ⃐ \ Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing) \ Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark) \ Combining: 230 (Abov 10:54:14 `chicken harpooned 10:54:15 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: chicken: not found 10:54:18 ... 10:54:24 `CHICKEN HARPOONED 10:54:24 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: CHICKEN: not found 10:54:29 beuh. 10:56:01 Hah. The font that gucharmap uses gets this wrong... "combining rightwards harpoon with barb downwards" points to the left. 10:56:28 maybe this is better anyway. c⃔ c⃕ 10:57:08 Hope they don't ever handle a real harpoon 10:57:26 harpoon should be double-ended, so you can't misorient them. 11:05:25 Are all C struct types with fields of all the same names and matching types matching types, or do they have to have the same struct name if they have a struct name at all? 11:08:47 `cc struct a {int x;}; struct b{int x;}; struct a a = (b){}; 11:08:54 ​/tmp/a.c:1:52: error: ‘b’ undeclared here (not in a function) \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 11:08:56 `cc struct a {int x;}; struct b{int x;}; struct a a = (struct b){}; 11:08:57 ​/tmp/a.c:1:59: error: invalid initializer \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 11:08:59 boily: somehow that made me think of these devices, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drevnosti_RG_v3_ill130c_-_Caltrop.jpg 11:09:04 (nope) 11:09:40 `cc typedef struct {int x;} a; typedef struct {int x;} b; a a = (b){}; // probably not either 11:09:41 ​/tmp/a.c:1:57: error: ‘a’ redeclared as different kind of symbol \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 11:09:51 `cc typedef struct {int x;} a; typedef struct {int x;} b; a x = (b){}; 11:09:52 ​/tmp/a.c:1:43: error: invalid initializer \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 11:10:15 `cc typedef struct {int x;} a; a x = (a){}; 11:10:16 ​/tmp/a.c:1:16: error: initializer element is not constant \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 11:11:06 int-e: ah, the safety harpoon with extra spikes to be sure you skewer your prey properly. 11:15:58 Melvar: I don't think "matching type" is a C term at all, but "two structure -- types declared in separate translation units are compatible if their tags and members satisfy the following requirements: If one is declared with a tag, the other shall be declared with the same tag. If both are completed anywhere within their respective translation units, then the following additional requirements ... 11:16:04 ... apply: [member stuff]." 11:17:05 fizzie: I didn’t know what the C term was. Thank you. 11:27:43 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SELFREFERENTIAL CHICKEN). 11:29:00 -!- Welo has joined. 11:30:12 `poulet misremembered 11:30:13 MISREMEMBERED CHICKEN 11:32:38 Melvar: Note also the requirement of two separate translation units. After a struct { int a; int b; } x; struct { int a; int b; } y; in a single translation unit, the types of a and b are not compatible, AIUI. 11:32:53 Er, the types of x and y, I mean. 11:38:01 `poulet dismembered 11:38:02 DISMEMBERED CHICKEN 11:38:22 `poulet 11:38:53 No output. 11:41:32 `` ls /usr/share/dict 11:41:33 No output. 11:42:47 -!- lleu has joined. 11:42:47 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 11:42:47 -!- lleu has joined. 11:43:05 so does hackego have a word list? 11:43:53 `word 11:44:00 ralminisialobiitatifiiiscerk 11:44:02 `` (cd wisdom; ls) | grep ed$ | wc 11:44:03 ​ 0 0 0 11:44:13 `words 11:44:19 positurial 11:45:39 `` find / -name words 2>/dev/null 11:46:10 No output. 11:47:02 oh well. > echo $(grep ed$ /usr/share/dict/words | shuf -n 10) 11:47:02 randomized snaffled encased enlightened respired ransomed sunned appealed endowed unclogged 11:47:07 (love the first one) 11:48:20 `bienvenido 11:48:21 ​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.) 11:48:29 whew 11:48:50 (realized my sed was potentially shoddy) 11:50:41 -!- Herbalist has joined. 11:50:41 -!- Herbalist has quit (Changing host). 11:50:41 -!- Herbalist has joined. 11:52:06 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 11:54:18 i see xkcd's beret guy has a new job. at least this one seems to have long time prospects. 11:57:45 i also foresee weight gain in zeetha's future. 12:06:08 int-e: i think agatha might need some lessons from klaus in how to ignore unauthorized biographies twh 12:10:45 oerjan: I think I have not read today's GG yet. Some people have to work ;) 12:11:00 shocking 12:14:23 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:14:26 -!- Froox has joined. 12:17:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:20:41 I call it an inconvenient truth. 12:26:26 wait what, coca-cola doesn't actually contain cola? 12:35:45 -!- TieSoul has joined. 12:40:18 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:41:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:43:04 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:47:08 -!- TieSoul has joined. 12:57:47 Does it contain coca? 13:23:55 -!- incomprehensibly has changed nick to glowcoil. 13:24:01 It contains "natural flavourings". 13:26:20 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:29:12 I've been under the impression that it still contains something derived from processed coca leaves, though. 13:30:40 Supposedly, they extract out the cocaine and sell it on the black market properly dispose of it. 13:33:24 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:38:31 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:42:16 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:43:30 -!- perrier has joined. 14:21:57 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 14:23:03 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:23:39 mroman_: inderal (propranolol). it's a beta blocker, and i took it for tremors caused by lithium 14:23:44 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:26:36 Sourceforge has now hijacked Nmap. http://seclists.org/nmap-dev/2015/q2/194 14:26:58 huh? 14:27:42 you mean the port scanner, right? 14:28:15 yes. 14:28:42 SF has hijacked the repo and is distributing bogus trojan downloads like they did with GIMP. 14:28:58 why? 14:29:51 oh. SF always offers the newest file, not the correct-est file 14:30:01 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:30:26 Lyka: because they are running out of money, and this will make them some. 14:34:34 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:38:54 Maybe GPLv4 will include a clause against cnetization (mcnetization?). 14:43:35 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:57:29 -!- Herbalist has joined. 15:10:53 [wiki] [[BFQ]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43135 * Esowiki201529A * (+276) Created page with "== Quine == ++>+++++++>++>++++++++>+>+++++++>++>+++>++>+++>+++>+++>+>+>+++++++>++++>++>++>++++++>++>+++>+>+>+>++++++++>++>++++++>++++>++>++++>++++>++++>+>+>+>++++++++>++>++>+..." 15:12:50 [wiki] [[BFQ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43136&oldid=43135 * Esowiki201529A * (+23) 15:13:45 Esowiki201529A strikes again 15:13:51 [wiki] [[BFQ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43137&oldid=43136 * Esowiki201529A * (+4) /* Quine */ 15:16:08 [wiki] [[BFQ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43138&oldid=43137 * Esowiki201529A * (+9) 15:19:03 [wiki] [[BFQ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43139&oldid=43138 * Esowiki201529A * (+73) /* */ 15:25:15 [wiki] [[BFQ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43140&oldid=43139 * Esowiki201529A * (+35) 15:33:43 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 15:40:42 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:41:40 -!- atehwa has joined. 15:56:43 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:58:35 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:59:49 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:06:33 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:09:19 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 16:09:41 -!- Melvar has joined. 16:18:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:18:36 oh dear, oh dear. 16:23:30 -!- a2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:33:30 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 16:37:15 -!- a2 has joined. 16:49:34 -!- SopaXT has joined. 16:52:16 int-e: what is it, dear? 16:55:12 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:56:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Feel free to answer while I'm gone, I'll check the online logs). 16:58:15 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:59:46 Well, the world has received another brainfuck clone, apparently with the sole purpose of writing a quine. 17:02:27 Holy shit. https://twitter.com/synackpse/status/606088427222769664 17:13:16 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:20:06 -!- rdococ has joined. 17:27:26 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Class and such). 17:38:46 @metar BOM 17:39:02 err, 17:39:18 @metar VABB 17:39:18 VABB 031710Z 29007KT 3500 HZ SCT020 31/25 Q1007 NOSIG 17:51:47 @metar LOWI 17:51:48 LOWI 031720Z 05009KT 020V100 9999 FEW080 BKN100 26/14 Q1021 NOSIG 17:51:56 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:01:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:20:46 I think I figured out how to make this bluetooth headset work with my laptop: 18:20:56 killall pulseaudio, sudo /etc/init.d/bluetooth restart; pactl load-module module-bluetooth-discover; disable and enable bluetooth from menu, then try to connect to headset. From the computer. 18:21:13 This appears to work. And it is stupid. And no "normal" user would ever figure it out... 18:25:09 -!- Welo has joined. 18:36:58 Vorpallo 18:48:36 ais523: pong 18:48:39 um 18:48:42 ais523: ping 18:48:44 not pong 18:49:08 Huh! People in American Samoa are generally not citizens of any statew. 18:49:18 `wisdom 18:49:19 phantom__________hoover/OK you got me there. 18:49:30 `wisdom 18:49:34 urbandictionary/Urban Dictionary is an alternative, inferior wisdom database. 18:49:42 i.e. they are not US citizens, or citizens of anywhere else. 18:50:12 That is really weird. 18:53:23 (specifically, American Samoa doesn't count as US soil for purposes of birthright citizenship, and people there are unlikely to otherwise have a citizenship) 18:54:09 So. Fucking. Weird. 18:55:51 * pikhq continues twiddling thumbs hoping to hear back from Google. 19:00:59 -!- nys has joined. 19:02:40 -!- Welo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:08:53 -!- nycs has joined. 19:09:23 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 19:10:22 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:10:31 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 19:20:02 pikhq, what do you expect google to do? 19:23:16 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:24:02 Vorpal: Hire me. 19:24:47 whoa whoa whoa, you think Vorpal is going to hire you just like that? 19:25:00 pikhq: are you watching John Oliver's show or is there another recent source for this information? 19:25:14 int-e: Random Wikipedia. 19:25:33 interesting 19:25:34 What sort of Google things do you want to do? 19:26:35 "Keep Google running". 19:26:52 (that's the cliff notes version of the site reliability engineer role I applied for) 19:27:12 Oh, I used to do that. 19:27:23 fsvo "Google" and "running" 19:27:26 :P 19:27:55 Their hiring process is less efficient than I'd like though. 19:27:58 You're running Google off a cliff? 19:28:10 No. 19:28:10 imo move to Mountain View 19:28:19 That's what I applied for. 19:29:53 I guess you don't apply for a specific team or anything like that? 19:30:04 Yep. 19:30:35 -!- Welo has joined. 19:31:15 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:31:25 Apparently some people do know in advance. But I didn't know what I'd be doing until the end of my first day. 19:36:18 At the least, interviews went well and were pretty fun. 19:37:54 Did you do interviews in Mountain View? 19:38:22 Yep. 19:38:48 Didn't have that much time in the area though: practically flew in, interviewed, and flew out. 19:42:27 -!- idris-bot has joined. 19:50:57 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:58:54 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:00:25 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:18:56 -!- villasukka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:18:56 -!- atehwa has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:25:25 -!- Wright has joined. 20:27:24 -!- bb010g has joined. 20:37:00 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:52:39 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:55:47 -!- villasukka has joined. 21:03:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:03:20 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:03:44 -!- skarn has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:10:45 -!- shikhin has joined. 21:17:54 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:19:39 -!- skarn has joined. 21:32:57 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:42:40 -!- MDream has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:45:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_(bishop_of_Ely) 21:46:00 nigel 21:52:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:01:41 -!- tromp__ has joined. 22:01:42 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:05:18 -!- hilquias has joined. 22:06:33 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 22:07:09 -!- tromp_ has joined. 22:07:31 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:17:29 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 22:17:29 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:27:24 -!- boily has joined. 22:33:48 What sort of Google things do you want to do? <-- * briefly wonders if this channel has more bots or google employees 22:34:12 i think it only has one Google employee hth 22:34:23 The Google recruiter has said that all the interviewers thought I was quite good, and believes I have the job. *Unfortunately*, there's a few steps between that and actually getting a confirmation. 22:34:27 and might soon have two? 22:34:29 Hurrah. 22:34:40 it's had as many as three in the past 22:34:44 or maybe more 22:34:46 I believe, but am not sure, that we have more than three bots 22:34:48 shachaf: well we cannot really say about all the lurkers, can we? 22:35:05 Taneb: plausible 22:35:12 hurrahq 22:35:23 Also I never finished writing my bot in Agda 22:35:28 Or really got started, I guess 22:35:39 -!- evalj has joined. 22:35:44 pikhq: you should be on gmail hth 22:36:19 fungot, do we have more than three bots? 22:36:19 b_jonas: over the next few years on the strength of the enron's unique. charles rangel and ways of doing. 22:36:29 ^style 22:36:30 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron* europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 22:36:43 I didn't know there was an Enron style. 22:38:53 An SRE told me that SRE's are the people who fix the things SWE's broke. But he might have been a biased source. 22:39:02 shachaf: Why Gmail? 22:39:09 fizzie: That sounds about right. 22:39:17 fizziello. what's a SRE twh? 22:39:59 pikhq: I was on Gmail SRE. 22:39:59 helloily 22:40:03 boily: The person who fixes... oh, you mean the abbreviation? Site Reliability Engineer. 22:40:20 And SWE is Soft Ware Engineer 22:40:39 "Site reliability engineer". More-or-less a dev ops sort of role, where you're a developer that is most heavily focused on keeping things working. 22:40:51 hm yafgc hasn't updated 22:40:58 so much for the new regular schedule 22:41:15 pikhq: the support guy who has the misfortune of knowing how to code? 22:41:23 hmm, is it more fun to break things or fix things? 22:41:45 boily: I don't think that's an accurate description. 22:41:48 shachaf: I managed to pass this Acronym Check by rolling over 15 with my wisdom modifier. 22:41:58 You're *not* a customer facing support guy or anything. 22:42:09 Think more "the guy with the pager when a server breaks" 22:42:13 oh. 22:42:22 uuuuuuuurgh. bleh! not a job for me at all. 22:42:33 Well, that, and "the folks who make sure it doesn't break in the first place". 22:42:34 I like my hours in accordance with the sun, and on weekdays. 22:42:38 pager, yeah, that's instant disqualification 22:43:27 also if SREs were paged every time a server broke... 22:43:27 My understanding is that you're on call on rotation rather than all the time. 22:43:34 Because that's nightmarish. 22:43:35 it's more like "the datacenter broke" 22:43:38 Not to mention, yes, that. 22:44:03 "The processing pipeline broke, and we're losing $20 million per hour." 22:44:08 or "the datacenter spontaneously disappeared". 22:44:15 Yes, on-call rotations, and people in multiple time zones, depending on the team. 22:44:25 fizzie: eh? 20e6 $/h??? 22:44:28 You're more likely to get paged when something is actually causing issues, not just when a server crashes because c'mon, this is Google. Hardware malfunctions are a parameter you design for. 22:44:50 Probably usually not quite that much. 22:45:24 boily: https://investor.google.com/earnings/2014/Q4_google_earnings.html says that Google's revenue for 2014 was $66e9 22:45:27 I hope. like, every day with an outage, we're losing a whole country's GDP. la dee da. 22:45:34 shachaf: AAAAAAAAAAAH! 22:45:38 But Google's revenue, according to Google, is $66 billion/year, so if you break all of it, it's like $7-8 million/hour. 22:45:40 That's $7e6 per hour. 22:45:56 Probably depends on the hour. 22:45:56 still impressive. 22:46:01 Probably. 22:46:01 Granted, you might have to try pretty hard to break all of it. 22:46:28 we should try and temporarily break the Whole of Google, just to see what happens. 22:46:53 Today a colleague told me that I will be a "noogler" ('new employee') until I break something in production. 22:47:27 We were discussing the definition; there seem to be multiple opinions on when exactly you're no longer new. 22:47:42 when you're older than the other guys? 22:47:48 Anyway with a big system like Google "down" isn't really a binary value. 22:48:06 Some part of it is always down. You just try to keep that number low. 22:48:10 I sort of think of everyone hired after me as "new" employees 22:48:15 olsner: That's pretty vague, too. Though there's a page that shows your percentile. 22:48:17 Within tolerances. 22:48:18 even if it was 6 years ago 22:48:26 As in, "X % of employees were hired after you". 22:48:32 fizzie: what's your percentile twh 22:48:47 I forgot. Less than 10% are newer than me, anyway. 22:49:22 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:50:16 fungot: are you a newbot? 22:50:16 boily: as the first. thanks. fred 22:50:27 fungot: I'm not fred. 22:50:27 boily: confidential attached the " i 22:50:38 fungot: oh. your secret identity? I knew it! 22:50:39 boily: keep the faith and in a manner the person that you outbid the person i know in it that i wanted you to know that the document that i went the spirit of the earnings of each investment choice against its risk of losses the power and to gaming the market, and to get any more " out of the plants that not only survive, but that the different, 22:51:03 fungot: do you google? 22:51:03 olsner: 1. i watch people, sip. power authority of the work that we 23:05:35 -!- adu has joined. 23:16:25 -!- trout has changed nick to constant. 23:21:47 `` poulet amnesiac # hoily 23:21:48 AMNESIAC CHICKEN 23:24:58 -!- toxolotl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:27:57 `` poulet existing # hellørjan 23:27:58 EXISTING CHICKEN 23:28:12 I'm not amnesiac. only temporally unreminisced. 23:28:41 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:35:12 -!- bb010g has joined. 23:36:41 `quote chicken 23:36:42 304) my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup \ 605) There's British KFC? Kent 23:37:07 I think the monqy one could be boily 23:37:30 -!- GeekDude has joined. 23:38:27 -!- toxolotl1 has joined. 23:39:40 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 23:43:45 boily: are you monqy 23:44:24 no :D 23:44:44 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:44:47 nys: does that mean you are monqy 23:45:21 the broth thickens 23:45:29 no but monqy is not currently here 23:45:34 ~ 23:45:51 `wisdom 23:45:53 perl/Perl is the Perfect Emacs Rewriting Language 23:45:55 nys: i haven't seen em for a *long* time 23:45:58 @seen monqy 23:45:59 I haven't seen monqy. 23:46:31 nys: what information do you have that makes you sure boily is not monqy twh 23:46:40 secret 23:46:47 *GASP* 23:47:22 I was given a programming test. Which was not fizzbuzz. 23:48:00 `wisdom 23:48:01 banach-tarski/"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". 23:48:14 :3 23:48:24 `wisdom 23:48:25 lambdabot/lambdabot is a fully functional bot. just don't ask about @src. 23:48:27 oh shachaf what are symmetric lenses 23:48:48 oh boy who are you 23:49:07 i'm nys :< 23:49:14 not monqy hth 23:49:20 haha i'm serious i'm not! 23:49:47 -!- staffehn_ has joined. 23:49:56 i just saw a branch of lens called "symmetric" and i was wondering what it was all about 23:50:38 -!- staffehn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:51:18 oh 23:51:26 well there are a few different meanings of the term 23:51:43 that branch refers to the "(g a -> f b) -> g s -> f t" kind 23:52:37 * nys squints 23:52:47 is it the edit lenses thing? 23:54:25 is g a Functor or ContraVariant 23:54:29 oerjan: sorry, was idle for a moment there (cooking supper and washing dishes). apparently I'm monqy and/or mnoqy? 23:54:46 (if the latter, this would seem a subset of profunctor lenses?) 23:55:05 g is Functor 23:55:09 hm 23:55:14 But you get contravariance because it's on the left side of the -> 23:55:24 @seen mnoqy 23:55:24 I haven't seen mnoqy. 23:55:31 boily: that's the theory. 23:55:41 oh. 23:55:55 shachaf: oh hm 23:56:02 uhm. well. chickens exists. Canada exists. I'm not mnoqy. qed. 23:56:27 boily: a fine argument, although you should include some pho or poutine hth 23:56:44 i think today i just managed to get a hold of why an initial F-algebra is a thing 23:56:55 do i have the mental capacity to grasp these symmetric lenses 23:57:14 initial F-algebras are great 23:57:19 lambek's lemma is p. nifty 23:57:38 except for the usual category thing where it's obvious 23:57:42 @quote TomLeinster 23:57:42 TomLeinster says: In subjects such as number theory and combinatorics, some questions are simple to state but extremely hard to answer. Basic category theory is not like that. To understand the question is very nearly to know the answer. 23:58:43 c: 23:59:35 oerjan: one day, there'll be a Vietnamese poutine. it's going to be glorious. 23:59:57 what's lambek's lemma. 23:59:58 >.> 2015-06-04: 00:00:15 oerjan: on that day you'll be poutine your place hth 00:00:24 it's a lemma named after lambek 00:00:36 oh that explains it 00:01:03 it says that an initial f-algebra is an isomorphism 00:01:09 http://www.cs.indiana.edu/cmcs/categories.pdf 00:01:28 page 44 00:02:21 Except I think they mean g : a -> Fa? 00:05:12 alas my experience with vietnamese cuisine consists of 2 visits to a place in trondheim that were both disappointments. i don't think they were very good cooks. 00:06:06 wait how do we know f.g = id_A on p46 00:06:23 as in, my impression of the soup was "dishwashing water" 00:07:34 this is a good proof 00:07:45 oerjan: :( 00:09:51 and the pork meat was sour. although maybe that's me, i keep having trouble with the ham slices i buy from the grocery shop. 00:10:53 (now i only buy it because they keep sending me coupons for it) 00:13:01 nys: diagram chasing hth 00:13:29 * oerjan hasn't looked at the proof, but this being CT that has to be the answer 00:13:34 :s 00:13:51 it says "by initiality" but i can't guess what that means here 00:14:31 oerjan: i don't think that's what diagram chasing is hth 00:14:35 an initial object is one that has exactly one morphism from it to everything 00:14:41 "initiality" probably means uniqueness 00:14:49 Or existence. 00:15:21 only one way to go from F a to a and back?? 00:15:27 But probably it means "this thing is equal to that thing because there's only one arrow between those things" 00:15:32 shachaf: ok, then is has be general abstract nonsense hth 00:15:35 *it 00:16:18 *+to 00:16:41 why does my brain punish my jokes by making me forget grammar 00:16:57 this abstract nonsense is p. specific 00:25:37 -!- Lyka|Away has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:28:26 -!- MDude has joined. 00:39:41 -!- Lyka|Away has joined. 00:39:41 -!- Lyka|Away has quit (Changing host). 00:39:41 -!- Lyka|Away has joined. 00:42:51 * Sgeo_ comes to the conclusion that "good translations" of Evillious Chronicles are a myth 00:47:29 [wiki] [[User talk:Esowiki201529A]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43141&oldid=43129 * Esowiki201529A * (+8) /* Quiney */ 00:50:02 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 00:58:51 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 01:17:57 -!- tromp__ has joined. 01:20:19 -!- heroux_ has joined. 01:20:48 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:20:48 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:20:53 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 01:20:57 -!- heroux has quit (Changing host). 01:20:57 -!- heroux has joined. 01:30:13 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 01:32:20 -!- adu has joined. 01:44:05 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ABIOLOGICAL CHICKEN). 02:24:46 "What's yellow and equivalent to the axiom of choice"? 02:24:57 Y'guys, y'guys, I think I know the answer to this one. 02:25:15 free brillo? 02:25:48 free willy is an orca 02:26:05 Zorn's lemon. 02:27:20 Oh, I thought it would be the Bananach Tarski theorem. 02:28:04 Does that entail the axiom of choice in ZF? 02:28:16 I don't know. 02:28:31 i doubt it. 02:28:35 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 02:28:42 it only applies to one set, after all. 02:30:52 -!- idris-bot has joined. 02:31:27 Fair enough. 02:31:51 But a lemon isn't equivalent to the axiom of choice either. 02:33:32 it could be a class lemon 02:34:15 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 02:34:23 when zorn gives you lemmas, make lemmanade 02:35:31 I guess it's hard to imagine how it would entail the axiom of choice. 02:36:51 "How do we select an element from each of the elements of this collection of nonempty collections?" "Oh, that's easy. Just use this way of disassembling a 3-ball and assembling it into two 3-balls of the original size." 02:37:49 `quote lemma 02:37:50 No output. 02:39:06 tswett: i suspect that having the axiom of choice for sets of cardinality less than a given one doesn't imply it in general. 02:39:27 That definitely sounds like the sort of thing that would be true. 02:40:00 Ooh, I just thought of a wonderful axiom. 02:40:10 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to Scj1000. 02:40:20 It contradicts ZF, but maybe ZF could reasonably be weakened to accommodate it. 02:40:30 fancy 02:40:55 Axiom: if S is an infinite set of sets, then there does not exist any function f with domain S which maps each element T of S onto an element of T. 02:41:07 Which is to say, all infinite cartesian products are empty. 02:42:11 -!- Scj1000 has changed nick to GeoDude. 02:42:50 sounds tricky, too many obvious counterexamples e.g. non-zero ordinals... 02:43:09 (von neumann ordinals) 02:43:20 map 1,2,3, ... to 0 02:43:26 (aka the empty set) 02:44:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:44:59 wait that "onto" should be "to", right? 02:45:18 "onto" has additional implications 02:46:58 Yeah. 02:47:18 Although I don't think the additional implications would be meaningful the way I used the word. 02:50:05 mhm 02:53:11 Okay, here's a totally unrelated idea. 02:53:59 Weaken the axiom of power set so that it merely asserts that given a set, there's another set containing all its *finite* subsets. 02:55:37 hm are we sure that cannot be proved directly 02:55:54 You can still define real numbers, I think. As long as you can get cartesian products of two infinite sets. 02:56:16 But now real numbers may form a proper class. 02:56:32 OKAY 02:56:36 Whelp, I'd better go to bed. 02:56:48 God b'ye. 02:56:53 yes, please sleep before you unravel logic and the universe 02:57:16 -!- Herbalist has joined. 03:41:38 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 03:41:50 -!- GeoDude has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:49:58 -!- password2 has joined. 04:30:52 -!- hilquias has quit (Read error: No route to host). 04:37:38 -!- hilquias has joined. 04:49:54 I just realized something blindingl obvious. 04:50:38 if you want unix type security on windows, jsut create a new user with no admin privileges, and log in as that user 04:51:51 if everyone had done that in the XP days, most of the viruses etc would never had worked 04:52:05 you need xp pro to do that 04:52:16 oh rigt 04:53:34 Lyka: XP home had no non-admin accts? 04:53:55 it probabl had no gui for doing it maybe 04:53:56 not real ones 04:54:04 yes @ oren 04:54:11 o 04:54:17 i meen, correct 04:54:31 -!- constant has changed nick to variable. 05:06:46 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 05:43:59 -!- password2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:18:38 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 06:30:23 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 06:36:28 -!- SoundGoddess has joined. 06:36:57 -!- SoundGoddess has left ("Leaving"). 06:44:40 variable: XP Home didn't even have the advanced security settings. 06:44:59 Only a subset of the ACL settings XP Professional was capable of. 06:46:40 (Mainly in explorer the security tab on XP home was deactivated and stuff like that) 06:47:34 (It might very well be, that XP Home under the hood would actually be capable of handling the ACL. There are some third party tools around that claim to be able to set those 06:48:08 or even re-enable the security tab. But of course, Microsoft did never recommend it, never supported it and third party tools messing with windows internals... meh) 06:48:32 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:48:34 You would also have gotten unix type end-user experience with an unprivileged user account in windows xp 06:48:53 I think you can't join a AD-domain with XP Home. 06:49:05 not the official way at least :D 06:50:15 and of course 06:50:21 XP Home has a guest account that is enabled per default 06:50:27 because that's a good thing to have. 06:50:38 Ah. Good old XP times... 06:50:47 fungot: Are you still running on Windows XP? 06:50:47 mroman_: am i? 06:51:01 fungot: That's what I was asking... 06:51:01 mroman_: we could let laurie" mahonlpbworld.com on 01/ 10 to 4, then that is not an option. huble, amanda subject to the message that do not have the option of " truing up. 06:51:44 I guess fungot doesn't have access to environmental variables. 06:51:44 MDream: our will group 408-501-7853 p 408-501-7861 f michelle montague-bruno director of the week of the handle came off the " an event of any technical difficulty, to provide you a low. group about adding the demand contracts that we 06:52:12 That was more garbled than usual. 06:53:31 fungot is playing corrupt 06:53:31 oerjan: for the next and employees. or, you can efficiently. cadogan 06:57:06 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 06:57:29 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:30:01 I am working on a spec for a language defined on top of data structures. Not just lists, as in lisp. The base language must support strings, lists of mixed types, and dictionaries from strings to mixed types. 07:30:33 So, JSON and YAML work, for example. 07:30:51 As does python 07:32:45 And PERL Data::Dumper format of course 07:36:00 So yeah, it has no fixed syntax, it is amorphous. 07:40:28 ais523: ping 07:41:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: N.t.). 07:45:02 I haven't got a name for it yet. 07:46:26 I'll make an interpreter sometime around whenevuary 07:48:26 Maybe I should literally call the language 'insert name here' 07:50:20 So a program is a block. A block is a mixed list of strings, dictionaries and lists, where the first item must not be a string. 07:51:27 The items in a block, are strings = comments, dictionaries = class/object thingies, and lists = statements 07:52:33 a statement begins always with a string. 07:56:53 Certain reserved strings are used for control flow, otherwise the string is a variable name. (Because of this variable names can be as long as you want and contain any character.) 07:59:47 Actually, never mind, I can do without. 08:00:23 No, wait that wouldn't work 08:11:39 example statement in JSON syntax: ['if',['x','=',3],[['stdout','print',"It's three!\n"]]] 08:12:53 oren: ok, so how exactly would this differ from lisps besides not always having the function name at the first place of a list? 08:14:08 It would differ in that classes are dictionaries, you have mutable variables, and it's imperative. 08:14:35 oren: lisps have mutable variables too 08:14:43 you can use them imperatively 08:18:25 Also, within a block, comments are just strings, e.g. [['stdout','print',"Hello world\n"],"This is a comment"] Hence, the code can be translated from one format to another, reformatted, turned into BSON, etc, and the comments retain their place. 08:18:53 so? you could add such comments to a lisp program too 08:19:16 people use such strings embedded in code as doc-strings in some languages -- I'm not sure if it happens in any lisp yet 08:21:10 I suppose it is a lisp dialect. But lisp dialects afaik are still generally defined with the program being a string of characters, rather than abstractly upon a data structure wihout reference to its representation 08:22:14 I might actaually write the implementation in scheme 08:22:25 oren: the definition is _written_ that way, but at least starting from r5rs there's an eval functino that takes an abstract representation, and the rest of the syntax is designed to make that work 08:23:22 that is, all the syntax the language has can be used inside a quote, and it will get you data that represents all the useful information of the program source, and you can eval it 08:23:49 (there might be caveats about r7rs modules, I don't follow, but this is how r5rs works) 08:25:41 I'm actually modeling much of the features off of javascript. 08:25:41 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:25:47 -!- Wright has joined. 08:30:40 Hopefully I can also define a 'presentation form' that includes HTML markup that makes the code pretty 08:32:06 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:38:08 -!- zadock has joined. 08:58:15 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:58:44 -!- Tritonio has joined. 10:16:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:32:57 -!- boily has joined. 10:42:49 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:50:54 -!- lleu has joined. 10:57:19 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:00:31 -!- lleu has joined. 11:01:52 b_jonas: clojure uses docstrings like that too, at least 11:19:24 -!- adu has joined. 11:26:51 -!- boily has quit (Quit: APOPLEPTIC CHICKEN). 11:44:06 -!- toxolotl1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 11:56:34 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:57:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:59:36 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 12:03:06 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:03:23 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 12:03:27 ush 12:03:29 *ugh 12:03:33 wiki admins, what should we do about http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BFQ&diff=43135&oldid=0 ? 12:04:22 I'm not sure if it's original or has been copied from elsewhere, and a page about a single program, if it's warranted at all, probably shouldn't just be its source code 12:04:33 and I have no idea how easy it is to search for fragments of BF code online 12:06:05 -!- xcourier has joined. 12:08:44 ais523: oh hi, I was trying to find you 12:08:53 hi b_jonas 12:09:27 in general, you can assume that if I'm not on IRC, contacting me via any other Internet-based means (apart from /possibly/ trying to identify and contact other people who know me in real life) won't work either 12:09:47 yeah I didn't try any of those 12:10:02 just passively waiting if you're on irc and checking 12:10:30 anyway, I was thinking about ayacc, and specifically C++ support for it, and now I think it's actually *much* more difficult than I thought 12:11:20 there's multiple things you can trip on, some of them not trivial to fix, and some of them not even easy to even work around in such a way that you at least get compile errors before segfaults 12:12:14 (that said, sending me an email will at least see I see the message next time I get online) 12:12:34 if you're still interested about this stuff, I can try to tell the details, but for some of the details I have to do more reading up still because I realized I actually don't know some rules of C++ as well as I thought I did 12:12:43 and some of those C++ stuff is even relevant here 12:12:54 I am interested; I know I don't know the rules of C++ well enough to really get something like this working 12:13:58 yes, that's the problem, I don't know them enough yet 12:14:19 and the worst part is that the "rules of C++" aren't enough because there's lots of non-conformant compiers 12:14:38 I'll try to learn more because I think it's relevant to me even without ayacc 12:14:50 I haven't worked on ayacc for a while 12:14:51 been busy at work 12:15:02 I noticed, the snapshot didn't change 12:15:03 -!- xcourier has left ("Leaving"). 12:15:46 knowing that there's a market at least gets me thinking about it again 12:15:59 maybe I'll abandon the asm backend because it's clearly a ridiculous thing to do 12:16:02 but it was fun to work on 12:16:05 hehe 12:16:51 I didn't say I'm really a market. I'm not planning on using ayacc in production at all, though I might try it out just to convince me it works better than ordinary yacc or to find bugs or something. 12:17:42 it's definitely better at finding bugs in yacc input than actual yacc is 12:17:47 or, well, not finding them 12:17:48 but explaining them 12:18:06 yep 12:18:21 oh, there was something else I wanted to ask about, but later 12:18:31 now I'll tell some of what I think about the C++ support 12:18:39 but some of this may be inaccurate, I need more time to think 12:18:48 and I definitely need more feedback, so I'm going to ask about ayacc 12:19:52 go on 12:20:12 !bfjoust preparation http://nethack4.org/esolangs/preparation.bfjoust 12:20:16 ​Score for ais523_preparation: 51.2 12:20:22 (it got deleted from the hill somehow, presumably me trying to get a different program to #1) 12:20:41 #2, neat 12:21:18 I've been working on an improvement to margins, not finished yet though 12:21:54 admittedly it does rather move away from the original idea of the program a little, given that it can actively win (i.e. doesn't require opponent suicide) on tape lengths longer than 12 now (although not all the way up to 30) 12:22:23 Is soemone reinventing Lisp with square brackets and commas instead of the smooth parentheses and no commas? 12:25:36 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 12:28:08 ais523: so anyway, you said that ayacc does no dynamic allocation, and allocates all the variables on the stack, which is a great start, but there's still some things that can trip you even if you do that, and some of them are hard to avoid and obvious to try to do 12:28:38 ais523: the particular example I'm worried about the most, though not the only thing, is putting the types the user defines into a union 12:28:56 b_jonas: right, so I'm hoping to be able to optimize out the union 12:29:05 atm I don't but that's something I want to do in the future 12:29:14 the problem is, ayacc is internally strongly typed, but the user program might not be 12:29:24 the problem is that using a union is actually something you may want to do, and in fact if the yacc rules don't declare the types but access it like $1.foo then you can't even avoid it 12:29:28 exactly 12:29:44 anyway, I'm not saying that using unions is always a bad thing, but you have to use them very carefully, 12:29:58 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:30:13 because they're one of those few things that will work correctly with C, but can do the wrong thing silently without compile time errors if C++ types are involved as (recursive) members of the union 12:30:40 unions are kind of similar to other things you aren't doing, like putting the data in a malloc'ed buffer 12:31:17 and the tricky part is that even if the yacc interface wouldn't require them, you may still want to use unions 12:31:34 the problem I have is that I don't understand how unions work in C++ 12:31:38 actually ayacc currently has another problem that's related to this, which is a known bug 12:31:58 I thought I did understand at least partly, but it turns out my understanding was totally wrong 12:32:00 which is that if you don't assign to $$ it just ends up with uninitialized data 12:32:03 so now I have to read up on them more 12:32:13 flex's solution to this is to unconditionally initialize $$ with $1, which might be the wrong type or might not exist 12:32:27 but implements the implicit "$$ = $1" 12:32:27 yes, there are other things that can trip you up, I might mention them later 12:32:33 err, bison, not flex 12:32:50 (ayacc implements the implicit "$$ = $1" as sugar, it converts it to an explicit "$$ = $1" early in the process) 12:33:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:33:45 so let me ask some things. (1) does the yacc compatibility actually require you to expose a union to brace rules? 12:34:10 "brace rules"? 12:34:21 code between braces in the yacc grammar 12:34:29 it depends on how that code is written 12:34:46 if you give no type information, it exposes YYSTYPE to the code 12:35:05 however, yacc doesn't actually require YYSTYPE to be a union; it normally is, and it is if you tell yacc to define it itself using %union 12:35:11 but if you declare it manually it could be something else 12:35:18 hmm 12:35:38 if that code specifically mentions a union field, $1 (or $1 with in the matching declaration), ayacc /currently/ implements it as a union field but I want to change that 12:36:25 but if you define it as a %union, and some symbols are declared strongly typed and some as weakly typed, then isn't ayacc output still required to access the members of the union explicitly? 12:36:52 yes, it is 12:37:07 (2) do you have specific plans or requirements on what compilers you're planning to support or not support for compiling the output of ayacc, especially with regards to pre-C++11 compilers in C++ mode? 12:37:12 that said, I think the correct solution to this is to tell people it's a bad idea in the documentation 12:37:24 I'm hoping for the output code to be as portable as possible 12:37:43 we could potentially go the C-INTERCAL route where you specify the standards version when specifying the language 12:38:56 or we could try to write a polyglot of every standards version 12:40:56 The version of what language? C/C++ or yacc? 12:41:21 C or C++ 12:42:51 I think that will probably not be necessary, or possibly necessary only for some very old C++ compilers, but I'm not sure, I'll still have to learn the union rules and figure out all this stuff. 12:43:00 -!- ethiraric has joined. 12:43:09 b_jonas: well, I first learned pre-standard C++ 12:43:20 Sure, everyone of our age did. 12:43:26 this still shows in some cases, e.g. I have a tendency to write my own exception classes 12:45:17 Do you have any plans about how the non-C++ C output will handle destructors of symbol data? 12:46:52 b_jonas: let them go out of scope on the stack, tell people not to put dynamically allocated stuff there 12:46:59 or, if they do, be willing to leak it 12:47:10 most of the yacc applications I can think of offhand would be fine like that 12:47:23 -!- SopaXT has joined. 12:47:24 ais523: but... no I don't think so 12:47:35 (apparently the one of the D compilers got a huge speed increase by effectively using a user-space sbrk rather than malloc as its allocator, and never freeing anything) 12:48:08 sure, that's called garbage collection, many people believe it can be faster than freeing anything explicitly 12:48:17 it might or might not work depending on what you do and how you do it 12:48:24 but really, about ayacc, 12:48:28 look 12:48:41 b_jonas: no, garbage collection normally at least attempts to free things when memory is exhausted 12:49:15 what happens if the grammar fails to match? will you leak resources in that case, or will you correctly exit all the functions? 12:50:01 b_jonas: oh, the leak can /only/ happen on match failure 12:50:02 if you can correctly unwind everything when the grammar doesn't match, then it's probably not hard to correctly unwind in any reasonable case, because you just need to inject a token that causes the grammar to not match, 12:50:21 if the grammar does match then all the objects get unwound by the grammar rules themselves 12:50:22 (unless of course the grammar is already in a state that it'll definitely match rsn) 12:50:33 ais523: hmm 12:50:47 what happens now if the grammar fails? 12:50:50 this implies that you can get working unwinding by adding an unwind alternative to every single rule 12:51:05 right now, if the grammar fails I throw an exception (or longjmp in C) and just cut out the broken bit of the stack like that 12:51:09 but that would complicate the generated code immensely? 12:51:16 yes, and slow it down too 12:51:18 hmm 12:51:21 this is why exceptions are so useful in this case 12:51:32 sure 12:51:38 but still 12:52:09 do you ever need to _copy_ a symbol data value, as opposed to move it, even if it's sometimes currently implemented as copying because that's easy in C? 12:52:23 no, I don't 12:52:32 yacc actually has linear typing 12:52:34 that at least simplifies things 12:52:45 it wouldn't be a big problem even if you had to copy them, but it makes things simpler 12:52:53 which is why match failures confuse things because you have all these linear values and no way to delete them 12:53:05 b_jonas: one thing I do need to do, though, is return them from functions and pass them to other functions 12:53:23 in what ways can the moving happen, other than returning a single data value from a function as the return value? 12:53:24 that can be done entirely with moves, and I'm hoping it can be done with RVO too but I'm not sure how 12:53:35 sometimes I need to return two values from the same function 12:53:46 returning a value from a function is actualyl the _easiest_ case 12:53:48 although in this case, one of them is always a POD integer, so we can return it via pointer/reference if necessary 12:53:49 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:53:57 the best case, the one I'm hoping for 12:54:11 returning two values is still fine 12:54:17 b_jonas: basically what we do is, we return the value from a function, then we pass it through a chain of function arguments until it's consumed 12:54:45 as long as it's like actually a product you're returning, not a discriminated union where the symbol data value is sometimes present and sometimes not 12:55:12 what do you mean by "chain of function arguments"? 12:55:28 do you mean you pass a pointer to the value to functions you call? 12:55:39 -!- oren has joined. 12:56:21 b_jonas: I mean I pass it to one function as an argument, that function passes it to another function, and so on 12:56:38 b_jonas: oh yes, I am returning discriminated unions by hand :-( 12:56:51 that could be a little awkward 12:56:56 Oh by the way, is there a testsuite that exercises most of ayacc's functions? 12:57:11 not really, I've mostly just been using random .y files plus a few manually written ones 12:57:15 it needs a proper testsuite really 12:57:39 ais523: none of that them is _really_ a problem, I'm confident averything like that can be solved, I'd just like to know what you're doing before I can even think about this. 12:57:52 I'm going offline for about 10 minutes, I'll be back soon 12:57:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: bbiab). 13:00:37 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:02:17 Is ayacc a product of ais523? 13:06:16 mroman_: yes 13:06:32 mroman_: http://nethack4.org/media/alex/ayacc/ayacc.pl 13:07:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:07:24 b_jonas: back 13:07:30 have you looked at ayacc's C output? 13:07:55 ais523: no, not yet 13:08:19 I'm going to look at it, though I'm a bit worried it can depend so much on the input that I might miss some cases that only come up if I feed it Bad Practice input 13:08:23 that should give you a good idea of how it works 13:08:25 like union and untyped stuff 13:08:32 I will definitely have to look at it, yes 13:08:33 especially if you compare it to the -v output 13:08:39 right 13:08:42 atm it doesn't do many Good Practice-dependent optimizations 13:08:56 I see 13:10:30 -!- adu has joined. 13:11:49 -!- nortti has changed nick to lirael. 13:12:10 -!- lirael has changed nick to nortti. 13:13:07 -!- nortti has changed nick to snortti. 13:13:12 -!- snortti has changed nick to nortti. 13:26:35 wanted to get it working before doing more optimizations 13:26:45 (there are quite a lot already but they're to the state machine rather than the actual code) 13:28:15 sure 13:30:04 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 13:30:43 b_jonas: I'm planning to go home soon, is there anything more you want to ask before I go? 13:32:32 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:34:10 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 13:34:25 did I miss anything? 13:34:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 13:34:29 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 13:35:15 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:35:31 -!- b_jonas has joined. 13:37:30 probably nothing right now 13:45:47 hmm, HTTP connections aren't working for me right now (they start to work but stall) 13:47:12 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:47:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:49:23 hah, typical wifi 13:49:34 (well, actually there's like a thousand different problems that can cause that) 14:03:58 -!- impomatic_ has left. 14:10:16 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:25:50 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:34:02 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 14:35:15 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:37:32 -!- nycs has joined. 14:38:16 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:49:02 -!- hilquias has joined. 14:56:44 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 15:08:19 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 15:11:01 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: rebooting). 15:12:28 -!- toxolotl1 has joined. 15:14:59 -!- Melvar has joined. 15:16:57 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 15:30:55 -!- idris-bot has joined. 15:31:27 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 15:33:06 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb). 15:34:49 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:36:34 -!- Welo has joined. 15:44:13 -!- SopaXT has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:01:18 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:01:26 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:14:34 -!- Welo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:15:00 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 16:21:44 -!- SopaXT has joined. 16:24:03 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 16:24:57 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:26:21 I think my initial interest in Factor is starting to wear off. 16:29:21 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:34:29 Currently I'm trying to learn Pure Data. 16:37:47 I cannot for the life of me even manage to debug the prime? function in the tutorial I'm doing. 16:38:29 I'd probably be better off learning Erlang. 16:48:33 -!- Welo has joined. 16:54:30 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:58:32 [wiki] [[ABCs]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43142 * Paul2520 * (+2709) created page 16:58:53 -!- rdococ has joined. 16:59:08 [wiki] [[User:Paul2520]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43143 * Paul2520 * (+55) Created page with "Created the [[esoteric programming language]] [[ABCs]]." 17:01:22 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 17:03:49 -!- password2 has joined. 17:04:19 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:05:19 -!- password2 has joined. 17:14:55 [wiki] [[ABCs]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43144&oldid=43142 * Paul2520 * (+41) added "hello world" example 17:16:17 [wiki] [[Befunk]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43145&oldid=40231 * 73.184.106.177 * (+0) 17:17:40 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43146&oldid=43071 * Paul2520 * (+11) /* A */ added [[ABCs]] 17:23:33 -!- SopaXT has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:11:20 you know what's bullshit? 08 and 09 are not valid C integers 18:13:42 actually the whole octal thing is pretty stupid 18:15:11 why did they have octal, of all bases? Base 60 might at least be useful 18:15:30 or base 12 18:16:36 like it would be nice to be able to write a value like 300 seconds as 5:00 18:18:09 or a value of 18 inches as 1'6 18:19:11 hmmm 18:26:53 Windows Calculator thinks octal might be useful 18:28:54 #define b60(i) ((i)%100+(i)/100%100*60+(i)/10000%100*3600+(i)/1000000%100*216000+(i)/100000000%100*12960000) 18:29:30 Awesome PDP legacy stuff. 18:30:52 this requires 500 for five minutes, and 240000 for one day. Hmmm 18:35:03 #define bTM(i) ((i)%100+(i)/100%100*60+(i)/10000%100*3600+(i)/1000000%100*86400+(i)/100000000%100*18144000) 18:35:06 Obviously things should use base 2 exclusively. 18:35:34 That would be nice, but our systems mostly use mixed bases 18:36:01 Especially base64 should be replaced with base2. :P 18:36:27 I prefer base 255 18:36:55 That's not 7 bit clean. 18:36:55 (I once wrote half of a C-string based bignum thing using that base) 18:37:12 (hah) 18:38:00 I agree that base of a power of 2 are easier 18:38:28 but sure, there's zzo38 who'll write negafibonacci base arithmetic when I just mention how strange it would be 18:38:48 and I've written strange base arithmetic stuff just to see how easy it is 18:39:29 251 is a prime base tat fits into a byte 18:39:51 252 has a lot of factors 18:40:09 Shoving base 2 in ASCII is just hilarious. 18:40:38 including GF(128) arithmetic: http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=863110 18:44:57 pikhq: and yet GNU decided to add a 0b01010001 notation, for people who apparently can't read 0x51 18:45:43 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:46:36 or 0121 18:51:42 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 18:54:24 -!- nys has joined. 18:54:58 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:55:59 oren: That's also going into C++. 18:58:21 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 19:03:29 -!- SopaXT has joined. 19:07:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:16:44 oren: yeah, I never understood why that would be useful 19:21:48 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:26:21 it's for people who can count to 24 quickly (is 0b1000000000000000000000000 equal to 1<<23 or 1<<24?) 19:27:51 i,i 0b1e24 19:28:09 shachaf: that makes me cringe inside 19:28:23 0b1e0b11000 19:28:44 0b1e0b11e0b11 19:28:56 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:29:00 and now we're approaching one of those efficient prefix-free encoding of naturals 19:30:10 hmm, where'd the -free come from... 19:33:39 (What I have in mind is something like this: To encode a positive natural number, write it in binary and drop the initial 1 digit to obtain a list of digits; the empty list is encoded as 0; any other list is encoded as 1, followed by the encoding of the length of the list, followed by the list itself.) 19:49:34 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [). 19:50:12 shld use the encoding of one less than the length... 19:50:33 also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenstein_coding 19:59:44 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:01:04 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:12:49 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 20:34:23 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 20:44:57 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 20:45:11 -!- Herbalist has joined. 20:45:11 -!- Herbalist has quit (Changing host). 20:45:11 -!- Herbalist has joined. 20:53:40 -!- GeekDude has joined. 21:00:13 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:04:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:06:41 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: .). 21:08:51 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:11:53 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 21:20:12 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 21:25:07 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:34:18 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:35:54 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:39:27 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:41:51 -!- boily has joined. 21:41:56 @metar CYUL 21:41:56 CYUL 042100Z 14008KT 100V170 30SM BKN240 24/07 A3011 RMK CI6 SLP195 DENSITY ALT 900FT 21:42:08 @metar KOAK 21:42:08 KOAK 042053Z 27011KT 10SM FEW012 21/10 A2982 RMK AO2 SLP098 T02060100 58006 21:42:26 damn. only 24/07 and I'm sweating like a sweaty pig who sweats profusely. 21:42:36 (maybe the bike ride is a contributing factor.) 21:43:55 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:46:03 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 21:51:33 -!- tromp_ has joined. 21:51:40 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:58:32 -!- Wright has joined. 22:00:25 -!- adu has joined. 22:04:15 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 22:05:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:06:35 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 22:20:22 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:24:47 -!- atehwa has joined. 22:25:58 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:35:01 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:42:35 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:09:45 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:19:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:23:23 -!- toxolotl1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 2015-06-05: 00:08:45 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:20:04 -!- bb010g has joined. 00:20:07 `1234567890-=qwertyuiop[]\asdfghjkl;'zxcvbnm,./~!@#$%^&*()_+QWERTYUIOP{}|ASDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBNM<>? 00:20:08 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/1234567890-=qwertyuiop[]\asdfghjkl;'zxcvbnm,./~!@#$%^&*()_+QWERTYUIOP{}|ASDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBNM<>?: No such file or directory 00:21:09 see. the above has... problems 00:21:40 Firstly, 0 should be to the left of the other numbers 00:23:11 Secondly, the letters on homerow are not the most common letters 00:23:57 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:24:15 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:24:18 thirdly, ? should be the default and / should be shifted. ? is used a lot more than / in writing 00:24:49 and similarly, the [] should be where () are and vice versa 00:29:37 dvorak is thataway hth 00:32:20 /1234567890-=qwertyuiop^çàasdfghjkl;èzxcvbnm,.é\!@#$%?&*()_+QWERTYUIOP¨ÇÀASDFGHJKL:ÈZXCVBNM'"É is the Most Bestest Layout :D 00:32:53 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 00:33:53 is that québécois 00:34:41 it's Canadien Multilingue Standard. 00:35:26 (technically there should be a dedicated ùÙ key, and àÀ should be to the left of the return key...) 00:36:18 |1234567890+\qwertyuiopå¨asdfghjkløæ'ZXCVBNM;:_ where i had to press space after a few dead keys hth 00:37:10 only ^¨ is dead here. other dead keys are on AltGr and ISO level 5. 00:38:18 |±@£¢¤¬{}[]½¬§¶`~}°{«»µ<>´ 00:38:20 `¨^ here 00:39:12 yeah plenty more with AltGr 00:39:18 I have a distinct lack of dead keys here. 00:40:15 1234567890qwertyuiop[]\asdfghjkl;'zxcvbnm,./!@#$%^&*()_+QWERTYUIOP{}|ASDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBNM<>? is truth 00:40:21 ¹²³¼½¾¸łœ¶ŧ←↓→øþ~æßðŋæßðŋħijĸŀ´zx¢“”ʼnµ―·­¡£¤⅜⅝⅞™¿˛ΩŁŒ®Ŧ¥↑ıØÞ°¯˘Æ§ÐªŊĦIJĿ˝ˇZX©‘’♪º×÷˙ 00:40:55 `unidecode ŊĦIJĿ 00:40:57 ​[U+014A LATIN CAPITAL LETTER ENG] [U+0126 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER H WITH STROKE] [U+0132 LATIN CAPITAL LIGATURE IJ] [U+013F LATIN CAPITAL LETTER L WITH MIDDLE DOT] 00:42:06 `unidecode ĸ 00:42:07 ​[U+0138 LATIN SMALL LETTER KRA] 00:42:24 `unicode LATIN CAPITAL LETTER KRA 00:42:25 No output. 00:42:28 hmph 00:42:58 -!- nys has joined. 00:43:01 you're expecting Unicode to be logical. this is a bad habit you should depart from. 00:43:09 nyellos! 00:43:29 nnnyello 00:43:43 do you capital letter kra? 00:44:06 What 00:47:20 -!- hilquias has joined. 01:08:48 -!- lleu has joined. 01:08:49 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 01:08:49 -!- lleu has joined. 01:20:14 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:23:37 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:24:51 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 01:34:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: OILED CHICKEN). 02:15:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:25:39 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:35:19 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:40:44 -!- gde33 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:41:28 -!- gde33 has joined. 02:47:07 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 03:03:13 -!- GeekDude has joined. 03:22:13 -!- lemurian has joined. 03:26:12 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 03:27:38 -!- password2 has joined. 03:43:18 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:48:30 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:52:05 -!- GeekDude has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:15:02 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka|Phone. 04:20:14 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:20:17 0b1_ken0b1 04:21:33 and his friend arthur ditto 04:22:36 `wisdom 04:22:37 twh/twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 04:22:51 `wisdom 04:22:52 friendship/friendship wisdom 04:23:01 `wisdom 04:23:03 heck/Heck is where you end up if you don't believe in Gosh. 04:23:22 `? functor 04:23:23 Functors are just morphisms in the category of small categories 04:24:01 What about functors between non-small categories? 04:24:24 tricky 04:25:07 I was going to add "(small)" at the beginning, but apparently no one calls them small functors. 04:25:16 Oh well. 04:25:17 `wisdom 04:25:18 elliott/elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? He is also tire. And a lystrosaur. 04:25:29 `wisdom 04:25:30 lystrosaur/The lystrosaurs were an ancient genus of evil reptiles who successfully took over the world in the early Triassic. 04:25:42 also absent. 04:26:01 coincidence? 04:26:41 omg you're right he must have invented a time machine 04:27:32 shachaf: synchronicity hth 04:28:16 `wisdom 04:28:17 logs/I think you might mean !logs 04:28:36 what's that all about 04:28:37 `wisdom 04:28:41 fukyobrainz/fukyobrainz is yet another brainfuck derivative however with identical instructions. 04:28:54 `wisdom 04:28:58 hagb4rd/hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace. 04:29:01 `wisdom 04:29:03 aah/aah ambiguous acronym here 04:29:16 hm that's broken 04:29:29 someone didn't slashlearn 04:29:34 `run sed -i 's/aah //' wisdom/aah 04:29:36 No output. 04:30:50 hmm 04:30:54 `` mkdir le; ln -s ../bin/learn le/rn 04:30:56 mkdir: cannot create directory `le': File exists 04:31:07 `` ls -ld le 04:31:08 drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Jun 5 04:32 le 04:31:25 oh, it's that bug 04:31:41 ah. 04:32:01 `le/rn le/rn may or may not work 04:32:02 ​/hackenv/le/rn: line 3: wisdom/le/rn: No such file or directory \ Learned 'le/rn': le/rn may or may not work 04:32:27 wait wat 04:32:34 oerjan: that was remarkably accurate hth 04:32:47 `le/rn le/rn may and may not work 04:32:48 ​/hackenv/le/rn: line 3: wisdom/le/rn: No such file or directory \ Learned 'le/rn': le/rn may and may not work 04:32:55 `` rm le/rn; ls -s ../bin/slashlearn le/rn 04:32:57 ls: cannot access ../bin/slashlearn: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access le/rn: No such file or directory 04:33:10 wat 04:33:19 ok, i'll admit i'm confused 04:33:37 `le/rn le/rn may or may not work 04:33:38 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/le/rn: No such file or directory 04:33:43 hmph 04:33:50 oh, wait 04:33:51 ls -s 04:34:16 ... 04:34:18 `` ln -s ../bin/slashlearn le/rn 04:34:20 No output. 04:34:24 `le/rn le/rn may or may not work 04:34:26 Learned «le» 04:34:29 yay 04:34:31 `? le 04:34:32 `? le 04:34:33 rn may or may not work 04:34:33 rn may or may not work 04:34:43 `le/rn le/rn may and may not work 04:34:46 Learned «le» 04:34:48 -!- Lyka|Phone has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 04:35:08 ok, what was the difference? twh 04:35:34 oh, wait 04:35:43 i didn't link it to slashlearn 04:35:45 * shachaf sighs 04:36:12 `le/rn le/rn may or may not work 04:36:14 Learned «le» 04:36:38 `? le 04:36:39 rn may or may not work 04:37:13 `le/rn le/rn seems to be working rn but it didn't earlier 04:37:15 Learned «le» 04:37:31 brains, brittle briny bricks 04:38:05 `wisdom 04:38:07 xargs/xargs is for piping snowmen. 04:38:16 `wisdom 04:38:17 ​¯\(°_o)/¯/¯\(°_o)/¯ `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:38:17 | | | 04:38:17 º¯`\o º¯`\o º¯`\o 04:38:43 v. good 04:38:45 `wisdom 04:38:46 ​ /The final frontier. 04:38:56 >_> 04:40:26 Is that even accessible with ? 04:40:34 `? 04:40:35 ​ ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:40:51 `` \? " " 04:40:52 `` \? ' ' 04:40:53 ​ ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:40:53 ​ ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:40:58 I also put it in so that you can make ``` at front instead of `` if you want it to fix the locale settings 04:41:02 -!- lemurian has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 04:41:44 `` cat bin/'``' 04:41:45 export LANG=C; bash -c "$1" 04:41:48 shachaf: well space normally is pretty inaccessible, so it all fits. 04:43:16 like a cardinal? 04:43:49 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:44:03 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:45:10 `wisdom 04:45:11 gazpacho/You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 04:45:16 `wisdom 04:45:17 coonspirator/A coonspirator is caterpillar silk wrapped in collaborators. 04:46:31 `? sgeolang 04:46:32 sgeolang currently is either J or Io. 04:46:38 inaccurate hth 04:47:25 `? natural transformations 04:47:26 Natural transformations are just morphisms in the category of functors 04:48:03 `` sed -i 's/the category of functors/a functor category/' wisdom/natural\ transformation 04:48:05 No output. 04:48:09 actually what's the point 04:48:16 `rm wisdom/natural transformation 04:48:20 No output. 04:48:54 `? devious 04:48:55 dumb 04:49:06 um what was wrong with the original 04:49:11 i think i made it 04:49:14 oh 04:49:38 just that there's no one category of functors, there's one for every pair of categories 04:49:49 oh hm 04:50:06 and also saying "X is just a morphism in the category Y" is silly because you define the category Y by saying what X is 04:50:13 and also it didn't seem very wise 04:50:18 but i won't object if you put it back 04:50:29 maybe deleting others' wisdom is rude 04:50:34 should i put it back? 04:51:06 well it was supposed to be silly, although "no one category of functors" is a point 04:51:37 well that silliness already exists elsewhere in the wisdom database 04:51:40 you are the categorical expert 04:51:52 nuh uh hth 04:52:37 I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights historical / From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical 04:52:44 anyway put it back twh 04:53:44 i'm sorry but you're the very model of an modern ct expert hth 04:53:56 *a 04:54:05 curse you, muphry! 04:54:06 copumpkin is more of a ct expert 04:54:10 and look where that got him hth 04:54:24 isn't he pretty close to you 04:54:41 how do you mean 04:54:50 like in the same city or so 04:55:22 opposite coast hth 04:55:26 ah 04:55:32 well he's moving a bit closer 04:55:35 but still far 04:55:47 a dual concept, then 04:56:10 he used to live in ct 04:56:21 that's what the ct expert thing is about, see 04:56:25 ah 04:57:03 `wisdom 04:57:04 elliot/No one was ever called Elliot. 04:57:15 `? eliot 04:57:16 eliot? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:57:33 `learn Eliot invented cats. 04:57:35 Learned 'eliot': Eliot invented cats. 04:57:42 `slashlearn natural transformation/A natural transformation is a transformation of something containing no chemicals. 04:57:45 Learned «natural transformation» 04:58:38 well, we got rid of the word "just" 04:58:40 progress 04:59:28 `learn Eliot inveted cats, then Taneb stole his invention. 04:59:32 Learned 'eliot': Eliot inveted cats, then Taneb stole his invention. 04:59:33 `learn Eliot invented cats, then Taneb stole his invention. 04:59:35 Learned 'eliot': Eliot invented cats, then Taneb stole his invention. 05:00:16 `learn Eliot inverted cats, then Taneb stole his inversion. 05:00:19 Learned 'eliot': Eliot inverted cats, then Taneb stole his inversion. 05:00:53 Isn't a category of functors from X to Y when you do Y to the power of X? 05:01:44 What's the definition of power? 05:02:09 The exponent 05:02:23 What's the definition of the exponent? 05:03:14 Hmm, I guess you can have a monoidal category and talk about the adjoint to (a (x)) 05:03:43 Or something. 05:04:09 Apparently "copower" means "tensor". 05:04:27 `learn Copower rrupts. 05:04:29 Learned 'copower': Copower rrupts. 05:04:49 `wisdom 05:04:50 `wisdom 05:04:50 `wisdom 05:04:51 field/There are two kinds of fields. Those where you can divide (except by zero), and those where you can conquer. 05:04:51 `wisdom 05:04:51 lettuce/Lettuce is a vegetable with two dressings, join and meet. 05:04:51 heck/Heck is where you end up if you don't believe in Gosh. 05:04:52 `wisdom 05:04:52 inverness/Inverness is a city in Scotland. The ring road isn't multiplicative. 05:04:53 morphism/A morphism is just a natural transformation between two functors on 1. 05:05:05 I think you can have addition, multiplication, exponents of categories, and it agrees with the natural numbers (the finite discrete categories being the natural numbers here), such as if you do the category X to the power of 2 it is same as to do X times X 05:06:59 `? chess 05:07:00 Chess is a complex boardgame, where players exchange unclear royal steaks until they decide which of them has lost. The game is recorded through the Gringmuth Moving Pineapple Notation. 05:07:14 `? mahjong 05:07:15 mahjong? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:07:28 `le/rn lord/The way of the Lord is not just. 05:07:30 Learned «lord» 05:07:58 It is not just what? 05:08:10 ezekiel 18:29 hth 05:08:35 O, OK 05:10:35 `wisdom 05:10:36 gazpacho/You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 05:10:38 `wisdom 05:10:39 partial order/A partial order is just a small thin skeletal category. 05:10:45 I might be talking too much. 05:11:13 `? OK 05:11:14 OK? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:11:18 `? poker 05:11:19 poker? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:11:22 `? AmigaMML 05:11:23 AmigaMML? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:12:08 `? pipe 05:12:09 pipe? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:12:23 `le/rn pipe/This is not a pipe. 05:12:25 Learned «pipe» 05:12:34 `? pipe 05:12:37 This is not a pipe. 05:12:38 `? this 05:12:39 this is a word 05:13:31 `? nah 05:13:32 nah no ambiguity here 05:13:38 `le/rn nah/no ambiguity here 05:13:40 Learned «nah» 05:13:43 `? Famicom 05:13:45 Famicom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:14:10 `learn Famicom is a famous sitcom from Japan. 05:14:12 Learned 'famicom': Famicom is a famous sitcom from Japan. 05:17:17 * oerjan does an overoptimistic webcomic check 05:17:17 `? matrix accounting 05:17:18 matrix accounting? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:17:28 `? HackEgo 05:17:29 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 05:17:54 `? Lisp 05:17:55 Lisp? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:17:58 `? Forth 05:17:58 Forth? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:18:42 `? RDF 05:18:43 RDF? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:18:45 `? XML 05:18:46 XML? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:18:56 `? bible 05:18:57 bible? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:19:30 `slashlearn forth/Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication. 05:19:32 Learned «forth» 05:20:31 oerjan: i was just thinking of what sort of language would fit in with Go and Forth 05:20:49 then i decided there was none so i gave up hth 05:20:54 ah 05:21:21 also i'm writing Go code these days 05:21:31 -!- a2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:23:48 `? Go 05:24:13 did we break HackEgo 05:24:28 `echo hi 05:24:44 @ping 05:24:44 pong 05:25:33 Now you have to fix it 05:25:44 i cannot do that 05:26:09 Isn't go used in fungot? 05:26:09 Jafet: we signed on the document the events of the financial, project director of the us. 05:26:12 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:26:24 Jafet: not that i know of 05:26:27 ^source 05:26:27 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 05:26:37 oerjan: zzo38 didn't say that you can, only that you have to hth 05:26:58 shachaf: That is correct. 05:27:04 Maybe it's fun that is used in fungot. 05:27:04 Jafet: it will you have the power: california department of water and power. 05:27:12 -!- HackEgo has joined. 05:27:14 shachaf: ah. well i commend zzo38 on knowing the difference hth 05:28:12 I have a book that says: "People are trustworthy if they try to do what they say they will do. People are creditworthy if they can do what they say they will do." 05:28:27 good definitions imo 05:29:02 OKAY 05:29:13 `wisdom 05:29:29 oerjan: you still have to fix HackEgo 05:29:39 OKAY 05:31:26 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:31:34 According to fungot, you have the power. 05:31:35 Jafet: has a wonderful and you guys i recommend the best, if you see on the map of the 10 trading days of the equity and bond markets don't offer refuge. 05:31:37 -!- HackEgo has joined. 05:32:06 `wisdom 05:32:14 random-word-that-isnt-in-the-wisdom-yet/random-word-that-isnt-in-the-wisdom-yet Uhm... was the binary roujobroken? 05:32:18 Jafet: i don't trust that fungot statement, i've hear california has a drought 05:32:19 oerjan: i wan to make. for the enron price target the key the off peak. 25301 05:32:23 *heard 05:33:10 oerjan: thanks for fixing it tdh 05:33:10 `rm wisdom/random-word-that-isnt-in-the-wisdom-yet 05:33:22 No output. 05:33:23 O KAY 05:34:24 Jafet: fungot isn't on a very trustworthy style at the moment hth 05:34:24 oerjan: to the time of the help of the: ( iii) the number of the my cdnow. 05:34:31 ^style 05:34:31 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron* europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 05:34:37 oh 05:34:38 Are you going to add all of the other stuff too? 05:34:41 fungot has an enron style? 05:34:41 shachaf: first and foremost you 05:35:36 ^style alice 05:35:36 Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll) 05:36:11 fungot: drink me! 05:36:11 oerjan: five winsome girls, from twenty to sixteen: each young man that calls, i say! 05:36:16 i used to confuse enron with http://www.eltron.co.il/ 05:37:02 when people talked about enron i thought they were talking about a company that made parking gates and other sorts of automatic doors 05:37:17 shachaf: that's some hideously bad keming tdnh 05:37:38 this was back when people were talking about enron 05:37:58 so i imagine my english wasn't too good 05:38:05 and i was young and foolish 05:38:07 does lt an n sound the same in hebrew tdnh 05:38:10 *and 05:38:16 now i'm old :'( 05:38:23 no hth 05:39:56 Are you going to add a wisdom file for "mahjong"? 05:40:27 I'm probably not. Are you? 05:41:22 I don't know what to write 05:41:34 Therefore, I didn't write. 05:43:06 `learn RTF stands for Rich's Text Format, invented by Rich Burlew. In addition to plain text it supports simple stick figures. 05:43:08 Learned 'rtf': RTF stands for Rich's Text Format, invented by Rich Burlew. In addition to plain text it supports simple stick figures. 05:43:17 oerjan: these kinds of gates: http://www.eltron.co.il/img/0389/340.jpg 05:43:26 oh wait you said RDF, never mind. 05:43:52 That's OK; now you have the one of RTF too. 05:44:00 `! 05:44:01 ​/hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/: Permission denied 05:44:09 oh, right 05:44:27 `? rich burlew 05:44:28 rich burlew? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:44:40 `? FAQ 05:44:40 FAQ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:46:35 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:53:49 I had a double take at this email title: "Your help is desperately needed for Nigerian refugees" 05:54:03 It describe on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Graph what a RDF graph is, therefore you can make up something funny of it and make up a funny guess what the letters "RDF" is stand for, such as recursive acronym or whatever else it is. 05:54:05 (it was an email newsletter from the UNHCR) 05:56:16 Jafet: might wonder how many spam filters it got caught in 05:56:51 Can you define "planar graph" without geometry? 05:57:02 Sure, use kuratowski's theorem. 06:12:55 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:20:13 -!- Tritonio has joined. 06:22:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:24:18 -!- augur has joined. 06:26:45 `? cats 06:26:45 Cats are cool, but should be illegal. 06:35:17 Why it should be illegal? 06:38:54 I don't think cats should be illegal. 06:39:01 Cats are practical. 06:49:07 -!- zadock has joined. 06:59:55 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to IdentificationDi. 07:00:14 -!- IdentificationDi has changed nick to Sgeo. 07:02:33 -!- toxolotl1 has joined. 07:03:07 -!- toxolotl1 has quit (Client Quit). 07:03:07 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:22:02 fungot: fnord 07:22:02 mroman_: " only but frogs," said he, " for i never was so happy before," though why these two children who had never been so nearly choked in all her life. 07:23:35 zzo38: I'm guessing Rwandan Defence Forces 07:31:52 Why exactly did C89 disallow mixed declarations? 08:28:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:30:09 mixed?? 08:31:23 I would guess that it's so that stupid compilers can generate the function prologue and lay out the stack before generating any function code 08:32:30 Oh that. Yeah, same guess here. 08:33:55 blocks can declare variables though, so I'm not sure it's limited enough to actually help such a compiler 08:34:25 well a compiler could move declarations to the top anyway 08:35:02 ideally you'd scan the function body for declarations 08:35:14 you mean it would parse the whole function first? do you have enough RAM to do that? 08:35:37 oh right 08:35:46 I would have in fact just parsed the whole file into an AST :) 08:35:53 mroman_: does the term "single pass compiler" mean anything? remember that computers at the time had preciously little memory. 08:36:04 Yeah I know single pass compilers. 08:36:36 they'll produce rather inefficient code thoguh 08:37:19 sure 08:37:38 which is why real programmers wrote their code in assembly language 08:38:27 I still do use assembly language if writing the program for Famicom 08:38:36 `? famicom 08:38:37 Famicom is a famous sitcom from Japan. 08:38:43 compiled languages were (and to a great extent still are) a trade-off between time and space consumption of the executed code on the one hand, and managability and maintainability of the source code on the other. 08:39:12 zzo38: Wouldn't you use e.g. Japanese for writing the programme for Famicom? 08:39:41 The message on HackEgo is just a joke; Famicom is a computer machine 08:40:07 oh I should add portability to that list 08:40:08 I have written an ugly one pass compiler once 08:40:26 The other purpose of compiled languages such as C and so on is to make it (at least partially) portable to compile on other computer too 08:40:32 mroman_: was it for brainfuck? 08:40:48 no 08:41:04 (That's one reason I use C; it can then compile for other computer too) 08:41:05 FAMICOM IST DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE? 08:41:55 http://codepad.org/SZEZcEei 08:41:56 the real german word is COMPUTER 08:42:19 That's the real English word too. 08:42:24 just look at all those push pop instructions it generated :D 08:42:28 no, the english word is computer, not COMPUTER 08:43:12 English is case-insensitive. 08:44:05 I didn't even generate move instructions :) push r0, pop r1 was generated if a value was needed in another register :D 08:45:11 shachaf: I guess you could call it a Rechenmaschine 08:45:28 a * b was compiled as pop r1, pop r0, mul r0, r0, r1; push r0; 08:45:33 I've seen the CPU called a "Rechenwerk". 08:45:42 mroman_: looks legit 08:46:24 MagicKit assembler uses two passes; I made an extension which allows an optional third pass (although the third pass isn't reading the input file, but is rather executing code in an area that has been set aside for this purpose) 08:46:32 (I suppose this happens when you have a stack machine as intermediate representation and don't bother to write a register allocator, for example because that's kind of hard.) 08:47:08 int-e: exactly :). 08:47:24 That way you can very easily compile it in a single pass 08:47:42 mroman_: You could do optimizations when writing them out though? (Such as keeping track of pattern to match) 08:48:04 (These still aren't best kind of optimizations, but at least it would be something.) 08:48:05 Yeah :) 08:48:13 There are some very easy optimizations that could be done 08:48:22 like replacing push r0; pop r0; with nothing 08:48:30 and push r0; pop r1; with mov r1, r0 08:48:41 German seems like it would be so much easier to learn than Finnish. 08:49:26 http://codepad.org/qXSBIAiW <- but looking at the source code I don't want to have anything to do with that compiler anymore :D 08:50:49 I just directly emit code when ever a bison rule is matched :) 08:51:42 "| KEYWORD_IPROCEDURE IDENT { printf(".label _%s; iproc\n", $2); } KEYWORD_IS statements KEYWORD_END {" 08:51:45 stuff like that :D 08:53:42 You might be able to use a second parser which does optimization 08:54:18 -!- a21 has joined. 08:54:27 * int-e wonders whether zzo38 has anything to do with attribute grammars 08:55:24 http://codepad.org/ZbkyphzQ <- that's the language it compiles 08:55:57 obviously all locals need to be declared before the function body :) 08:57:45 with syntax highlight the language doesn't even look too bad 08:58:39 http://fmnssun.ibone.ch/rhailargue/string.rl.html 09:00:26 (Obviously there are only two data types: register and byte.) 09:00:54 (althought technically everything is untyped and just assumed to fit into a register) 09:01:25 (but for read/write accesses you can specify @BYTE or @REG prefixes) 09:02:38 zzo38: the project is dead ;) 09:03:29 Nobody had interest in the project. 09:05:29 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 09:07:03 That's what happens when yo do theses (is that the plural of thesis) without an industry partner but with the university as your partner 09:07:24 There's no real interest behind projects without partners from the outside world :D 09:08:00 also... BFQ? 09:08:12 BF commands are replaced with digits 0-9 09:08:24 but the Quine he shows doesn't even contain any digits but just brainfuck instructions? 09:10:23 and run as a brainfuck program it seems to output only non printable characters 09:14:59 maybe I'm reading something wrong :( 09:21:53 I think the numbers refer to raw byte values. 09:22:24 Because the output of the program starts "03 03 01 03 03 03 03 03 03 03 01 ..." and that matches the start of the quine code. 09:23:03 That'd fit. 09:27:47 He uploaded a file x-chromosomes that isn't used anywhere o_O 09:28:21 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:31:26 damn pollen. 09:31:50 pollen count is so high right now it affects people without pollen allergies as well. 09:57:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:58:49 -!- Wright__ has joined. 09:58:49 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:33:33 -!- boily has joined. 10:48:07 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:50:23 also... summer sucks as a heliophobic. 10:51:11 At least you're not above the arctic circle. (I guess?) 10:51:48 mrhelloman_. one form of therapy is exposing you to multiple suns at the same time to help you with you phobia hth 10:51:51 -!- lleu has joined. 10:54:45 fizzie: I guess... 10:54:51 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 11:11:51 -!- hjulle has joined. 11:14:15 JPA Strings default to VARCHAR(255) 11:14:27 good to know. 11:14:53 (Hint: When using JPA always check the schema it generates, because otherwise you will have Bugs you didn't think of 11:15:08 when suddenly your app crashes when storing Text longer than 255 characters) 11:29:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LOREMIPSUMDOLORSITAMETCONSECTETURADIPISCINGELIT CHICKEN). 11:34:05 -!- toxolotl1 has joined. 11:43:17 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:45:40 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:49:40 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:50:23 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 11:52:24 -!- b_jonas has joined. 11:56:59 -!- evalj has joined. 11:57:05 By how much can you slow down a video without a viewer noticing? 11:57:33 (i.e. to allow buffering) 12:00:21 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 12:01:09 Instead of stopping hard you slow down the video ever so slightly as to "gather time" for the buffer to refill 12:03:15 There probably isn't a general answer to this. For example, consider a music video on one hand and a slow pan over a city on the other. 12:14:24 You could annotate sequences that can be slown down. 12:14:56 or you could annotate where it is possible to introduce some mini-breaks 12:15:08 like when a movie shows a blank screen for a scene switch 12:15:17 that blank screen can easily be extended for a few milliseconds I guess. 12:17:28 mroman_: I don't think it's worth to slow down the video to catch up with buffering 12:17:45 mroman_: if the download is too slow, then that won't help much in the long term 12:17:50 you'll eventually have to halt 12:17:58 so this can be possible but I don't think it's practical 12:18:05 well there are cases where you pre-buffer for about a minute 12:18:07 then press play 12:18:15 and mid-movie you need to stop and pre-buffer for another minute 12:18:28 dynamically slowing the video down a bit could prevent that from happening 12:18:35 mroman_: I don't think so 12:19:07 those kinds of things are because the download stops or the speed slows down very much, because some point of the network (possibly an endpoint) gets slow 12:20:04 exactly 12:20:19 if buffering speed is just about playing speed and then suddenly starts to slow down 12:20:29 you have to halt eventually if you keep playing at the same speed 12:20:37 I don't think that's common 12:20:47 but maybe 12:21:30 Of course, you can always just increase download speed :D 12:21:45 but it sounded like something at least interesting to experiment with. 12:22:15 why solve the traffic problem if you can just build wider roads 12:22:19 :) 12:22:54 although that is a different topic. 12:23:00 (Busses are the future) 12:23:19 well.. except for transmitting diseases busses are probably not that *cool* 12:23:35 you're better of travelling in your own car when it comes to that. 12:24:26 or not travelling at all 12:26:09 -!- zadock has joined. 12:27:56 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka|Phone. 12:32:19 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:33:38 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:37:19 png 25 (12.89%) 3097 (28.44%) 123 12:37:38 when you have a PNG coder in your project and most lines of code are in PNG. 12:37:55 only 2789 C lines. 12:38:12 this stat tool should do some basic binary file detection 12:38:55 hm. at least there are 1.4k lines of assembly code 12:41:56 wow. 12:47:05 hm. 12:47:12 what makes more sense in terms of priorities 12:47:30 prefix > postfix > infix 12:47:41 or infix > prefix > postfix? 12:48:06 like uhm 12:48:10 +a!++b! 12:48:26 where Prefix+ is increment, postfix ! is faculty and infix + is addition 12:48:46 (fac(a+1) + fac(b+1)) 12:50:26 and ! infix would actually be array access 12:50:29 so 12:51:07 how do I parse that :) 12:51:48 and ! prefix is not 12:52:25 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 12:52:57 !a!!b could be almost anything. (!a)!(!b) if prefix > infix 12:55:46 although if postfix > infix as well 12:55:57 ((!a)!)!b 12:56:26 prefix > infix > postfix? 13:01:49 uhm yeah 13:01:54 I thought Parsec wouldn't like any of those :( 13:02:49 unless 13:06:05 damn 13:06:11 it stops for !a! at !a 13:06:53 =^.^= 13:07:49 how do I tell parsec to parse that as (!a)!? 13:10:32 oh 13:10:33 right 13:13:32 now it loops forever on just "a" 13:14:43 -!- Herbalist has joined. 13:30:41 ok. I have my system now :D 13:34:18 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:34:29 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:35:53 -!- GeekDude has quit (Client Quit). 13:37:17 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:41:40 -!- variable has joined. 13:43:36 .!,~a!2! would be the faculty of the bitwise negated second digit of the length of a 13:46:17 faculty? what. 13:48:04 *Main> runParserWithString parseExpression ".!,~a!b!" 13:48:04 ((!((~a)!b))!) 13:49:08 Factorial, I think. 13:49:11 Oh. 13:49:12 Right :) 13:49:15 False friends. 13:49:45 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 13:55:53 In German it's Fakultät 13:56:08 which means Factorial and/or Faculty :) 13:58:34 @oeis 1,1,3,12,20 13:58:35 Sequence not found. 13:59:00 @oeis 1,3,12,20,120,840 13:59:01 Sequence not found. 13:59:09 hm 13:59:23 1,1,3,12,20,120,840,6720,60480,151200 14:01:39 @oes 20,120,840,6720 14:01:40 n!/6.[1,4,20,120,840,6720,60480,604800,6652800,79833600,1037836800,145297152... 14:04:59 Why don't governments just use a tax system like 14:05:08 They state how much money they need for a given period 14:05:16 like 1000 Dogecoins. 14:06:08 all citizens together earn 6000 dogecoins a year 14:06:48 someone who earns 60 dogecoins a year therefore pays 0.01% of what the government wants 14:07:11 which is 10 dogecoins 14:07:55 Possibly because taking 10 dogecoins out of the income of someone earning 60 dogecoins is felt to have a different proportional effect than taking 1000 from soneone earning 6000. 14:08:03 in theory you could have to pay more than what you earnt 14:08:50 (Also I think your 0.01% was off by two orders of magnitude.) 14:08:53 really? 14:08:56 > 60/6000 14:08:58 1.0e-2 14:09:04 > (60/6000)*1000 14:09:06 10.0 14:09:10 nope 14:09:20 oh wait 14:09:22 hm 14:09:26 yeah I'm bad at math 14:09:28 60/6000 is a fraction of 0.01. 0.01% is a fraction of 0.0001 14:09:55 That's why I'm only good in math subjects that don't involve too much numbers. 14:10:36 hm. 14:10:41 let's assume there's one really rich person 14:10:46 Anyhow, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax 14:10:47 that earns 5000 dogecoins 14:10:57 > (5000/6000)*1000 14:10:59 833.3333333333334 14:11:28 It's just 1000/6000 (as in, 1/6th) out of everyone's income. 14:12:22 And I think people generally argue that taking 1/6'th out of the income of someone at the poverty line is different from taking 1/6'th out of someone earning lots of money, even though it's the same fraction. 14:12:42 But I'm sure you can find people saying that progressive taxation is bad too. 14:12:54 depends on how progressive 14:13:10 You can do stupid things like uhm 14:13:17 People earning less than 50000 pay 5% 14:13:24 people earning less than 70000 pay 8% 14:13:27 and above that 12% 14:13:57 although 5% isn't realistic of course :) 14:14:05 that's way too little 14:14:26 > 49000 * 0.08 14:14:29 3920.0 14:14:31 > 49000 * 0.05 14:14:33 2450.0 14:14:37 > 51000 * 0.05 14:14:39 2550.0 14:14:40 > 51000 * 0.08 14:14:42 4080.0 14:14:55 > 4080 - 2450 14:14:56 1630 14:16:14 That's why it's generally "X % for income from 0 to A; Y % for income from A to B; .." and so on. Although I've heard of the "you lose money by earning too much" situations. 14:16:48 but with 1/6 flat tax 14:16:54 > 5000/6 14:16:56 833.3333333333334 14:16:58 hm 14:16:58 true 14:17:11 > (10/6000)*1000 14:17:13 1.6666666666666667 14:17:19 > (30/6000)*1000 14:17:21 5.0 14:17:28 crap this really is 1/6 out of everybody 14:17:47 That's because you can take the /6000 out of the parens and put it under the 1000. 14:18:07 (x/6000)*1000 = x*(1000/6000). 14:18:33 -!- Welo has joined. 14:18:37 fizzie: but instead of making "hard borders" you could have something more gradual perhaps? 14:18:40 such as uhm 14:18:56 income / 10k 14:19:06 meaning 40000 pay 4%, 70000 pay 7% 14:19:31 but of course, you'd have to consult how many people earn how much first 14:19:45 because at the end of the day if the tax system can't cover the governments spending it's a bad tax system anyway 14:19:52 or a bad government 14:19:53 or both 14:22:00 are there countries with value-added-taxes only? 14:22:03 that would be interesting. 14:22:49 I wonder if there are any places that have differentiable function instead of tax brackets. I've only been exposed to the UK and Finnish systems, both of which have brackets. (Although the Finnish system never really talks about the brackets -- they're used to compute the overall marginal rate, but other than that it's just the single percentage you usually see.) 14:23:30 Both also have a non-empty bottom bracket with a 0% tax rate (aka tax-free income allowance). 14:24:54 They're even vaguely the same magnitude. (£10600 vs. 16500€ ~> £12000) 14:26:04 income tax here is around 5% 14:26:22 That sounds pretty low, compared. 14:26:28 well, it's not the only tax 14:26:34 Sure, but still. 14:26:49 you pay taxes to the government 14:26:57 (federal government) 14:26:59 and to the local 14:27:14 the local tax is somewhat around 120% of the income tax 14:27:39 so if you have 5000 fed tax, you pay 6000 local tax, meaning all in all the gov gets 11000 14:28:02 so roughly 1/8 of your salary goes to taxes 14:28:31 well 1/8 of the salary you get after taxes by your employer 14:28:39 which takes away another 1/8 :) 14:28:47 One difference between the UK and Finnish systems seems to be that while in Finland the state and muncipal taxes are all part of the same tax reporting and deduct-directly-from-salary system, here only the UK-wide HMRC tax seems to go from the salary, and there's a separate "Council Tax" you pay monthly as a separate thing, based on where you live and what sort of apartment you have. 14:28:58 meaning if you earn 6000 a month 4500 will be at your dispense 14:29:01 rest is taxes 14:30:21 there's also the yearly "Personalsteuer" but that's a fixed amount 14:30:27 and not very much 14:30:35 24 CHF 14:30:39 (where I live) 14:31:28 how much is the Council Tax? 14:31:48 on average for a usual not-very-rich but not-very-poor person? 14:31:56 It's not income-based at all. 14:32:14 It's based on which "council tax band" your apartment is in. 14:32:23 and what's the most common council tax band? 14:32:40 AIUI, the council tax band assignments are based on some decades-old valuation that is completely disconnected from reality. 14:32:54 and how much is that most common tax band? 14:32:56 But it's generally "more expensive place -> higher council tax", so I guess it's correlated with income. 14:33:27 I have no idea, but not terribly much. Less than £100/month. 14:34:10 I don't know if there's some transfer of money from the state to the local authorities, or how it works. I'm new here. 14:35:31 From what I've heard, the council tax rates vary quite wildly on which council you're in. 14:35:59 Apparently the average in London in 2008 was £1268 a year, so a bit over £100. 14:36:21 Ranging from £680 to £1490 for "band D". 14:38:16 Apparently the other bands are fixed ratios (from 2/3 to 2) of band D. 14:40:02 I see 14:45:43 31 degrees 14:45:45 It's getting hot 14:46:26 @metar LOWI 14:46:27 LOWI 051420Z 06006KT 010V120 9999 FEW065TCU SCT070 32/15 Q1019 NOSIG 14:47:29 @metar LZSH 14:47:31 No result. 14:47:48 @metar LSZH 14:47:49 LSZH 051420Z VRB02KT CAVOK 31/16 Q1020 NOSIG 14:59:10 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 15:11:51 -!- Froox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:16:40 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:18:29 How many computer program doing audio-related stuff define tau instead of pi? 15:30:53 -!- spiette has joined. 15:55:10 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 15:56:54 -!- password2 has joined. 15:57:11 I don't like defining tau by circles though; I prefer: e^(i tau)=1 16:05:37 -!- kline has changed nick to ayylmao. 16:06:09 -!- ayylmao has changed nick to kline. 16:07:13 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:10:01 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:17:17 zzo38, the entire significance of that formula is that complex exponentiation is rotation 16:17:29 you're still defining it by circles 16:19:07 You can define e^x by a infinite series, and if you put complex numbers in, that is what it makes. One significance of such series is you can calculate the derivative to also be e^x. 16:21:01 So, it doesn't seem circles 16:21:30 i mean that's true but then you're just saying stuff about arbitrary infinite series 16:22:05 you need the link to exponentiation and trigonometry for the identity to actually be meaningful 16:23:22 It isn't completely arbitrary; it has d(e^x)=e^x dx 16:24:24 You still haven't said what d is. :-( 16:25:02 It is a derivative operator 16:25:37 What is dx? 16:25:44 oh, all this time i'd been thinking it was the cellular boundary 16:26:38 The dx is the derivative operator which is already applied 16:30:49 [wiki] [[Prehistory of esoteric programming languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43147&oldid=37072 * Paul2520 * (-9) /* References */ replaced History of QED link 16:31:58 What is the type of d? 16:32:36 The "d" by itself is not something that is in use by itself (although Euler's differential operator can be used by itself if you pay attention properly!) 16:33:17 I don't know what is the type of d. Maybe I can figure out but I haven't done yet 16:38:56 shachaf, did we not have this discussion like 2 weeks ago 16:39:10 it's a convenient notation, you know that full well 16:39:19 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:40:04 there is a well-defined differential operator and it's usually written D, but it's not the same as liebniz notation 16:41:05 You can't use "d" by itself but it is possible to use "D" by itself, is what I said 16:42:04 it also obviously doesn't have a type because most mathematics doesn't use type theory 16:43:09 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but I don't remember getting a clear answer. 16:43:25 As I remember it zzo38 was saying that it was more than convenient notation. 16:44:11 Yes, but the notation d^2y/dx^2 for the second derivative is wrong. 16:44:34 I convinced myself that it made sense once. 16:45:28 If you actually write d(dy/dx)/dx and then to try to calculate it properly, you will see what it actually adds up to. 16:45:31 And I don't necessary mean "type" in a completely formal way. 16:45:39 the idea is that you write (d/dx) for the differential operator 16:45:55 "what sorts of things does it turn into what sorts of things?" 16:46:06 so the second derivative is (d/dx)(d/dx) = d^2/dx^2 16:46:33 And if it's just convenient notation, why does it seem to work so well? 16:47:20 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, although the (d/dx) is really Euler's "D" operator; it is just written as d/dx for convenience because Dy=dy/dx (if derivatives are taken with respect to x) for example. 16:47:51 shachaf, it turns expressions into infinitesimals 16:48:33 17:19 dylukes : let's assume we have `y = g(x)', and want to compute `d f(x,y) / d x' 16:48:36 17:20 dylukes : interpreting this as a partial derivative, it really means `let y = g(x) in d f(x,y) / d x' 16:48:39 17:20 dylukes : while interpreting this as a total derivative, it really means `d (let y = g(x) in f(x,y)) / d x' 16:49:11 Anyway I don't know any sort of infinitesimals where that really works. 16:49:28 They don't look like infinitesimals to me, even though they are often called that. 16:51:10 the infinitesimals for which it works are the completely nonformal handwavy ones 16:51:26 which is why it normally just gets called a notation 16:51:36 In "f(x) + df(g) / dx", the x in f(x) and the x in g(x) are different xs 16:51:56 df(x)/dx is both a binder and a consumer of x 16:56:11 That is because the x here is a variable 16:56:58 [wiki] [[Esolang:Community portal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43148&oldid=40602 * 2.98.83.249 * (+76025) 16:57:19 What does it mean that \int dy/dx dx = \int dy? 16:57:22 If it is a constant then it is dividing by zero, and of course you cannot divide by zero. 16:59:00 [wiki] [[Main Page]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43149&oldid=41175 * 2.98.83.249 * (+11455) 17:00:42 [wiki] [[User:Paul2520]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43150&oldid=43143 * 2.98.83.249 * (+23683) 17:01:03 -!- Lyka|Phone has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 17:02:06 [wiki] [[User:Jabutosama]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43151&oldid=43123 * 2.98.83.249 * (+46212) 17:02:36 [wiki] [[User:Jabutosama]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43152&oldid=43151 * 2.98.83.249 * (+1) 17:04:18 [wiki] [[ACIDIC]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43153&oldid=22183 * 2.98.83.249 * (+26285) 17:05:36 [wiki] [[Prehistory of esoteric programming languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43154&oldid=43147 * 2.98.83.249 * (+35219) 17:08:02 what now... 17:08:29 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:10:33 [wiki] [[Esolang:Community portal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43155&oldid=43148 * 213.162.68.175 * (-76025) Undo revision 43148 by [[Special:Contributions/2.98.83.249|2.98.83.249]] ([[User talk:2.98.83.249|talk]]) 17:11:00 [wiki] [[Main Page]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43156&oldid=43149 * 213.162.68.175 * (-11455) Undo revision 43149 by [[Special:Contributions/2.98.83.249|2.98.83.249]] ([[User talk:2.98.83.249|talk]]) 17:11:35 [wiki] [[User:Paul2520]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43157&oldid=43150 * 213.162.68.175 * (-23683) Undo revision 43150 by [[Special:Contributions/2.98.83.249|2.98.83.249]] ([[User talk:2.98.83.249|talk]]) 17:13:20 If C represents a constant, then: \int(2xdx) = \int(d(x^2)+0) = \int(d(x^2)+dC) = \int(d(x^2+C)) = x^2+C 17:13:39 [wiki] [[User:Jabutosama]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43158&oldid=43152 * 213.162.68.175 * (-46213) Undo changes by [[Special:Contributions/2.98.83.249|2.98.83.249]] 17:14:04 [wiki] [[ACIDIC]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43159&oldid=43153 * 213.162.68.175 * (-26285) Undo revision 43153 by [[Special:Contributions/2.98.83.249|2.98.83.249]] ([[User talk:2.98.83.249|talk]]) 17:14:39 [wiki] [[Prehistory of esoteric programming languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43160&oldid=43154 * 213.162.68.175 * (-35219) Undo revision 43154 by [[Special:Contributions/2.98.83.249|2.98.83.249]] ([[User talk:2.98.83.249|talk]]) 17:15:16 Isn't it? 17:16:37 * int-e hopes he hasn't just made oerjan's and elliott's job harder... 17:19:58 zzo38: shouldn't the constant be introduced when evaluating \int(dt), say \int(dt) = t + C ? 17:20:15 -!- trout has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 17:20:48 int-e: I suppose that is the other way too. 17:28:17 But, isn't dt=d(t+C) anyways? 17:28:55 Isn't that the point... 17:29:36 I mean, because dt=d(t+C), the "inverse" \int should return a result modulo addition of a constant, and that's usually denoted by the + C part. 17:30:36 It is same thing 17:50:03 -!- heroux has joined. 17:53:42 What way can you get a pseudo-random number from a floating-point number as input? 17:54:31 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:54:32 ...discard the number... 17:55:58 https://xkcd.com/221/ 17:56:30 No I mean such that f(x)=noise and is always the same noise, and if you do f(-x) then you get the reversed noise 17:58:45 sorry, but you almost never define what you need precisely enough to give sensible answers. 18:12:22 -!- nycs has joined. 18:15:00 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:27:23 If you want something done properly you have to compile the program yourseld 18:27:36 What are some good characterizations of the reals? 18:28:47 I thought the one by spivak in 'Calculus' was pretty convincing 18:29:13 I want characterizations other than "complete ordered field" or even anything related to numbers. 18:29:26 E.g. http://mathoverflow.net/q/92206 18:29:36 Oh. well poop, I dunno 18:33:22 that one with the closed points is pretty cool I have to say. 18:39:01 so we're then defining the reals as (0,1] x Z? 18:41:43 -!- a21 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 18:44:32 `le/rn the reals/The reals are a complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. They are universally useful in homotopy. 18:44:34 Learned «the reals» 18:48:58 How useful. 18:49:27 pikhq: are you moving to mountain view twh 18:50:01 shachaf: If I get the job (which seems really likely at this point), yes. 18:52:33 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:52:35 -!- ocharles_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:52:35 -!- supay has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:56:55 `? the reals 18:56:56 The reals are a complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. They are universally useful in homotopy. 18:57:07 please improve twh 18:57:36 I am not sure about "universally" 18:58:39 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 19:02:45 pikhq: What did you think of your interview? 19:03:08 Apparently during my interviews they did a bunch of things they weren't supposed to do. 19:03:25 My favorite part of it was that they let me choose what one of the interviews would be about. 19:03:48 The interviews were just a bunch of fun challenges; I had a pretty good time. 19:03:48 I can't tell whether that's standard. 19:07:03 The recruiter gave me a choice of two options for one of them. 19:07:45 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb). 19:08:06 My impression is that the interviews went spectacularly. 19:08:23 And the recruiter afterwards told me that all the interviewers said the same, so there's that. 19:08:33 sgtm 19:09:15 So, no guarantees but it really does sound likely that I've got it. 19:09:47 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:09:53 Hmm, do you remember your interviewers' names? 19:10:00 Alas, I do not. 19:10:03 You probably shouldn't say that in here anyway. 19:10:13 And even if I did I distinctly remember only hearing first names anyways. 19:10:30 And it's *incredibly* unlikely that first names are unique in the Googleplex. :P 19:10:57 Mine was! 19:11:33 Anyway it's less unlikely that they're unique in the SRE interviewer pool. 19:11:44 Oh? 19:11:56 To which? 19:12:07 Less unlikely they're unique. 19:12:39 I just mean that there are many fewer people in a position to interview you than Google employees overall. 19:12:50 Oh, huh. 19:13:00 Not that many SREs overall? 19:14:26 hmm. reals are cutting edge in the field of rational numbers 19:15:17 `? mahjong 19:15:18 mahjong? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:15:24 `? accounting 19:15:25 ​ = 0 19:16:48 `? codensity 19:16:48 codensity? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:16:56 `? comonad 19:16:57 Comonads are just monads in the dual category. 19:18:26 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 19:23:42 Hmm, mroman could easily be confused with the dual of a cormoran. 19:26:36 -!- atrapado has joined. 19:31:06 the traitor baru comroman 19:36:26 fun. with data Color = R | B and data Tree a = E | T Color (Tree a) a (Tree a), T R E E E is an actual (technically, I'd prefer the root to be black) valid red-black tree 19:38:03 Heh 19:45:18 (Okasaki has an exercise to implement a linear time fromOrdList for red-black trees, which turned out to be more interesting than expected) 19:49:10 `learn codensity is just mass per volume with all the arrows reversed. 19:49:11 Learned 'codensity': codensity is just mass per volume with all the arrows reversed. 20:12:04 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:19:31 [wiki] [[FlogScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43161&oldid=42039 * 63.232.95.4 * (+0) /* Operators and builtin functions (very incomplete list) */ 7 5 * should equal 35 20:20:35 http://pastebin.com/p5BSuZDj 20:29:54 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 20:31:06 can anyone see me? 20:33:17 No. 20:36:04 See whom? 20:37:27 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 20:37:54 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 20:48:39 `wisdom 20:48:40 `wisdom 20:48:40 mockingbird/mockingbird is watching you.. closely! Is it mocking you? Probably. 20:48:41 vanila/In a cruel twist of fate, vanila has come to #esoteric in search of wisdom. 20:48:43 `wisdom 20:48:43 `wisdom 20:48:44 for further details for futher details./See `? for further details for futher details. 20:48:44 egobot/EgoBot is my arch-nemesis. 20:49:20 -!- ocharles_ has joined. 20:50:32 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:02:21 -!- supay has joined. 21:06:10 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:10:35 `? 21:10:36 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:10:46 `? ? 21:10:47 ​? is wisdom 21:10:55 `? wisdom 21:10:56 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 21:11:11 `? ø 21:11:12 ​ø is not going anywhere. 21:11:19 `? anywhere 21:11:20 anywhere? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:21:30 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:32:44 -!- bb010g has joined. 21:36:23 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 21:51:37 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 21:54:56 Oh man, I have been home for one day and 8 hours and I have finished my book :) 21:54:58 *:( 21:55:09 Taneb: do you want more books 21:55:35 shachaf, unfortunately my book was volume 1 of the 2 volume edition of A Dance With Dragons, so I would like that book 21:56:08 oh 21:56:13 what if you read other books instead 21:56:17 I am borrowing them from one of my housemates in York 21:56:28 But York is like 90 miles away 21:57:17 Weren't you coming here to have poutine? 21:58:00 I think I can make poutine in York relatively easily 21:58:07 What is in poutine sauce? 21:58:53 -!- Wright has joined. 21:58:54 -!- Wright__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:59:52 Now you have to add a wisdom file for "anywhere" too 22:00:29 Taneb: that sauce can vary quite a bit 22:00:37 it all depends on what you want to poutine it 22:00:53 zzo38: Who does? 22:01:48 I don't know who 22:02:07 Also how does poutine differ from cheesy chips with gravey 22:02:10 *gravy 22:03:34 for one it isn't made with chips 22:03:41 [heh heh heh] 22:04:35 well in hebrew they're called chips, actually 22:06:20 I don't think cheesy crisps would quite work 22:06:59 Well, it's dangerously close to nachos 22:07:33 smoke's poutinerie has nacho poutines 22:08:01 with salsa, sour cream, jalapeño peppers, and guacamole 22:08:12 somehow it seems dishonest 22:29:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:46:44 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:49:43 -!- atrapa has joined. 22:50:51 -!- atrapa has quit (Client Quit). 22:52:02 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 22:52:59 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: thunderstorm). 23:00:05 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:03:20 poutines also often have vin aigre 23:04:38 Also I grew up calling them chips. The truck that sells them is called a chip truck 23:05:07 I guess in England they call it a chip lorry? 23:07:12 Are web cookies called web biscuits in England? 23:21:48 -!- toxolotl1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:22:09 Do any terminal emulators you can put a DLE code (or some other code) before any byte to cause it to always emit it as a character (in the PC character set, for example)? 23:25:08 There are a few VT100 graphics which aren't also in the PC set, although many terminal emulators do not seem to support these VT100 graphics anyways 23:25:48 zzo38: I don't know of any terminal that's capable of doing that, but on the linux console I think you can define any mapping from characters of the terminal to characters in the VGA charset, and you can even use that mapping as the secondary mapping (which is by default the vt100 graphics) 23:26:23 zzo38: also, I think some line printers have such a code 23:28:23 plus I think that's a two-level translation 23:29:13 I did do that; while it does allow accessing all of the characters it is a bit messy to do, because something internally causes it to get mixed up and therefore you need to activate the G1 set and then emit the high characters and the internal encoder will somehow then sometimes select the ones that were previously inaccessible 23:30:15 zzo38: also, for the linux console, you can try writing directly to /dev/vcsa* 23:31:46 zzo38: in my font, all the glyphs in the low control characters also appear somewhere on non-ascii unicode value, so you can use those 23:32:21 I think that might be possible on the linux console in unicode mode too 23:32:52 accessing the characters as mapped from high unicode values after setting the terminal to utf8 23:34:03 Better way would be to just use a prefix code to access PC characters; otherwise you get ASCII and VT100 characters only 23:34:33 yes, it would be easier 23:40:08 Dwarf fortress appears to simply output unicode 23:40:09 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:48:20 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:50:07 The Swiss Ephemeris testing program uses Unicode for the degree sign (it also has no option to use the current date); I made a shell script to use sed to change the Unicode degree sign into the VT100 degree sign (as well as to fill in the current date by default). 23:50:26 (I could have changed the source-codes and recompiled it, but I didn't bother to do that.) 23:50:43 sure 23:51:11 -!- Melvar has joined. 23:51:42 Those are two problems with Swiss Ephemeris to be aware of if anyone else is going to use them! 23:57:35 -!- idris-bot has joined. 23:58:02 The computer I can SSH into has no mail or C compiler or man pages or whatever, but from there it is possible to SSH to the computer that does have it. Both computers do share user files though. Do you know why? I don't know why they made it like that! 2015-06-06: 00:02:32 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 00:53:29 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:07:30 -!- hjulle has joined. 01:23:59 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:29:47 -!- a2 has joined. 01:37:18 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 01:42:16 `le/rn whitespace/see https://www.bing.com/search?q=whitespace 01:42:18 Learned «whitespace» 01:51:28 -!- kokut has joined. 01:55:52 -!- kokut has left. 01:56:11 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 02:02:41 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:19:32 `? whitespace 02:19:32 see https://www.bing.com/search?q=whitespace 02:28:17 -!- alguien has joined. 02:30:50 -!- G33kDude has joined. 02:37:15 -!- variable has joined. 02:38:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:44:57 -!- GeekDude has joined. 02:45:17 No results at all? 02:45:29 Bing you're awful. 02:48:39 http://www.baidu.com/s?ie=utf-8&tn=baidu&wd=whitespace 02:49:04 note the great suggestions on the righthand side 02:49:22 baidu knows what's up. 02:50:44 It certainly does. 02:51:19 -!- G33kDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:51:29 what a weird book! interesting 03:12:43 Why is my radio scratchy when I stand near it? 03:13:43 perhaps you have fleas 03:14:06 :) 03:15:19 It only happens with one of my radios, is independent of the channel it is tuned to, and doesn't happen when different people stand near the radio instead. 03:16:16 It also does not happen when it is playing a tape or CD. 03:18:26 You're interfering 03:18:36 You need to clear yourself with the fcv 03:18:42 FCC* 03:19:00 I don't get this problem with any other radio. 03:19:08 (Also, it is independent of AM/FM) 03:22:07 Psychic powers. 03:22:40 The radio is aware, and attemtping to respond to you. 03:26:40 I doubt it 03:28:52 -!- alguien has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:38:54 -!- f|`-`|f_ has joined. 03:40:35 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:40:49 -!- f|`-`|f_ has changed nick to f|`-`|f. 04:17:58 With one of my old TV's I would get the best reception by holding the speaker wire antena really tight 04:40:17 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 05:08:36 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:10:50 `? Haskell 05:11:03 Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 05:12:35 `? trope 05:12:35 trope? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:12:39 `? All The Tropes 05:12:39 All The Tropes? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:13:27 `le/rn All The Tropes/A card game where you win if you collect *all* of the tropes. 05:13:29 Learned «all the tropes» 05:16:58 `? esoteric 05:17:01 This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net. 05:17:13 `? irc.dal.net 05:17:13 irc.dal.net? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:17:41 `? copumpkin 05:17:42 copumpkin is categorically incapable of being president. 05:17:48 `? GeekDude 05:17:48 GeekDude? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:17:52 `? MDude 05:17:53 MDude is just a dude, with an M's courage. 05:18:07 `? variable 05:18:08 variable? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:18:19 That's true. 05:18:21 `? le/rn 05:18:21 le/rn? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:19:09 `? HTTP 05:19:10 HTTP? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:19:14 `? gopher 05:19:15 Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. 05:20:08 `? Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe 05:20:09 Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:20:12 `? TeX 05:20:13 TeX? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:20:17 `? LaTeX 05:20:18 LaTeX is \end{verbatim} \textbackslash textbackslash begin\textbackslash \{document\textbackslash \} 05:20:26 `? Plain TeX 05:20:26 Plain TeX? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:20:37 `? math 05:20:38 math? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:20:45 `? ping 05:20:46 ping? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:21:17 `? Python 05:21:18 Python? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:21:28 `? Unlambda 05:21:29 Unlambda? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:21:47 `? HTTP/2 05:21:48 HTTP/2? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:27:11 [wiki] [[User:Imaginer1]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43162&oldid=40485 * Imaginer1 * (+24) 05:27:40 [wiki] [[Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43163&oldid=40675 * Imaginer1 * (-59) Removed shameless plug 05:33:10 [wiki] [[Talk:Wordfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43164&oldid=40325 * Imaginer1 * (+65) 05:33:20 `? pope 05:33:21 pope? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:33:24 [wiki] [[Talk:Wordfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43165&oldid=43164 * Imaginer1 * (+11) 05:35:32 [wiki] [[Wordfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43166&oldid=40386 * Imaginer1 * (-881) 05:37:56 http://davidbau.com/complex/#z^%281%2Bt*4%29%2B%281-t%29 05:38:03 `? / 05:38:04 cat: /: Is a directory 05:38:19 See? 05:38:25 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43167&oldid=43146 * Imaginer1 * (+14) Added bitoven 05:39:11 [wiki] [[Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43168&oldid=43163 * Imaginer1 * (-4) It's not really WIP. 05:40:13 [wiki] [[Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43169&oldid=43168 * Imaginer1 * (+77) Added a clarification to the while loop. 05:44:56 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:03:38 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:05:30 -!- digitalcold has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:05:41 -!- digitalcold has joined. 06:08:01 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 06:08:33 That is how many files you didn't write. 06:08:50 how many? 06:12:55 -!- password2_ has joined. 06:16:23 A lot. I just queried some of them, many of which don't exist. 06:34:32 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka|Phone. 06:35:16 zzo38:Hi 06:37:21 I think i've stabilized the language for now 06:39:17 we'll see how the extension protocol works with 4FK Cuddlefish when the final component arrives tomorrow 06:39:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:40:28 I will have to add commands, but I assume they will be extension commands 06:42:09 I might have to make a for command 06:42:48 okay, my vision is getting blurry from fatigue 06:43:02 night all 06:50:25 -!- Lyka|Phone has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 07:00:32 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:01:06 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 07:04:16 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:54:25 `? /hackenv/canary 07:54:25 chirp 07:54:28 Useful. 07:54:46 Why the hell is there no tag?!?!?! 07:59:22 To do what? 07:59:54 To insert HTML into HTML 08:00:18 or any other language that needs < > ' & 08:00:48 How would it work for "" in verbatim? 08:01:27 (There's the CDATA section in XML for that, but I'm not sure / don't think it's in modern HTML.) 08:01:29 maybe ? 08:02:31 For now I'll just translate it in PHP... 08:02:41 No, I'm wrong -- it's in the W3 HTML5 spec, at least. 08:02:49 oh? 08:03:00 I don't & care ]]> 08:03:17 (It's bad if you happen to need "]]>", though.) 08:03:32 Oh, only in foreign content. 08:03:35 Never mind, then. 08:03:45 "CDATA sections can only be used in foreign content (MathML or SVG)." 08:03:46 shit 08:04:59 ,,1+1+,1+1 08:05:47 *Main> run $ runParserWithString parseExpression ",,+1++1+,+1++1" 08:05:47 LitInt 8 08:06:28 That's (++1 + ++1) + (++1 + ++1) 08:06:32 in a more C like notation 08:07:15 +,+,+1++1++,+1++1 is ++(++(++1 + ++ 1) + ++(++1 + ++ 1)) 08:07:52 *Main> run $ runParserWithString parseExpression "+,+,+1++1++,+1++1" 08:07:53 LitInt 11 08:08:18 Figuring out what the , does is left as an exercise for the reader :p 08:08:39 The ++1 part keeps wierding me out, because ++x is quite different from (x+1) in C. 08:08:54 Yeah :) 08:09:10 Prefix + is just increment 08:09:15 Infix + regular addition 08:12:13 *Main> run $ runParserWithString parseExpression "+.+,+,+1++1++,+1++1-" 08:12:14 LitInt (-10) 08:12:55 These would be good exercises for IT students to figure out :D 08:13:42 fizzie: Instead of brackets it uses , and . 08:13:48 , denotes infix and . denotes postfix 08:14:08 otherwise it is prefix 08:14:59 ,+1+1 is inc(1)+1 08:15:21 .,+1+1 is neg(inc(1)+1) 08:15:27 *.,+1+1- 08:15:38 - postfix always forms a negative number 08:16:35 In HTML there is a command to make plain text directly but then you can't type inside of it. There is also which cannot be terminated at all. 08:17:03 <mroman_> Does HTML5 still have that? 08:17:05 <zzo38> Therefore it can include any text including </plaintext> or whatever else you want it to include 08:20:04 <oren> xmp is supposedly an "obsolete feature" according to mozilla.org. god damn it, I hate these people 08:21:04 <oren> they put in a new tag and take out the old tag, and soon old web pages on the internet archive won't render 08:21:34 <mroman_> What does .,5+,3*3- evaluate to ;)? 08:25:18 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:28:29 <mroman_> which is the same as ,,5+,3*3*_1 08:28:34 <mroman_> using J notation for negative numbers 08:29:41 <fizzie> <plaintext> seems even worse. "This element has been deprecated since HTML 2 and was never implemented by all browsers; even those that did implement it didn't do so consistently. In addition, it is obsoleted in HTML 5; browsers that still accept it may simply treat it as a <pre> element, which still interprets HTML within, even though that's not what you probably want." 08:30:03 <fizzie> I think people generally just escape. 08:30:18 <mroman_> Having to escape in pre always bothered me 08:30:43 <mroman_> <verbatim end="EOF">hi there <b>hi</b>EOF 08:30:46 <mroman_> that would be nice :D 08:31:05 <fizzie> There seems to also have been a <listing>, which "is deprecated since HTML 3.2 and was neither implemented by all browsers, nor in a consistent way." 08:31:34 <mroman_> although browsers seem smart enough to render things like <pre>for(int j = 0; j < x; j++)</pre> still correctly 08:31:57 <mroman_> where corretly means like the user would have expected not knowing he'd better escape the < 08:33:23 -!- password2_ has joined. 08:45:10 <mroman_> Well, Burlesque won't have a chance against this new language :D 08:51:45 <Taneb> Gooood morning 08:51:47 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:52:53 <fizzie> "Good morning Europe!", to ape the Eurovision greetings. 08:52:55 <mroman_> 5 10r@#S is now just U,5:10 08:53:19 <fizzie> They said "Good morning, Australia!" so often. 08:54:13 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:54:18 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 09:00:17 <oren> good morning! 09:23:39 <mroman_> *Main> run $ runParserWithString parseExpression ",:4M{:p}" 09:23:40 <mroman_> [[1] [1 2] [1 2 3] [1 2 3 4]] 09:24:49 <mroman_> infix map looks kinda strange though 09:32:00 <mroman_> Although the closing } is purely optional of course :D 09:32:11 -!- Welo has joined. 09:32:35 <mroman_> 4ro)ro)<- is now just ,:4M{~:p 09:59:01 -!- Wright_ has joined. 09:59:01 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:16:54 -!- Wright_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:17:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gulf]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43170 * 160.85.232.184 * (+764) Gulf - a new kind of Burlesque 10:20:04 -!- ztirf has joined. 11:03:15 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:04:41 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 11:19:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:42:40 -!- scoofy has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:42:58 <mroman_> > foldl1 (-) [1..4] 11:43:00 <lambdabot> -8 11:43:19 <mroman_> perfect 11:45:48 <mroman_> ,:4R{,p*p 11:46:04 <mroman_> p is a special variable that refers to the top of the stack (and pops when read) 11:49:49 -!- ztirf has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 11:54:04 -!- nys has joined. 12:06:59 -!- j-bot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:19:33 -!- j-bot has joined. 12:32:09 <mroman_> jesus christ fuck the Java ecosystem . 12:32:52 <int-e> you want it to breed? 12:33:12 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:34:43 <mroman_> no 12:34:45 <mroman_> I wan't it to work 12:34:48 <mroman_> *want 12:34:54 <mroman_> and give reasonable errors AT FUCKING COMPILE TIME 12:35:17 <int-e> ...wait 18 years...oh wait, java is actually old enough... 12:39:03 <mroman_> this JPA shit is really getting on my nerves 12:44:10 -!- toxolotl1 has joined. 12:44:57 <mroman_> java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: org.slf4j.spi.LocationAwareLogger.log 12:45:00 <mroman_> ^- shit like that 12:45:23 <mroman_> those are runtime incompatabilities you have no chance detecting until it's too late 12:47:01 <mroman_> most of the JPA stuff works 12:47:03 <mroman_> except making queries 12:47:11 <mroman_> which results in another stupid runtime error 12:47:15 <mroman_> NoSuchFieldError 12:47:20 <mroman_> are you kidding me, java folks? 12:58:13 <int-e> welcome to the wonderful world of reflection and mirages... 13:00:15 <int-e> . o O ( no springs attached ) 13:02:20 <mroman_> Class has two properties of the same name "members 13:02:25 <mroman_> How the fuck is that even possible? 13:05:04 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 13:05:56 <int-e> oh that's a good one, I have no clue. 13:05:58 <Jafet> Remember when java was young and innocent 13:06:11 <Jafet> Before it grew hot spots 13:06:26 <int-e> Jafet: you mean when it was unusable and ridiculously slow? 13:06:39 <mroman_> I'm becoming a hater of reflection/runtime magic 13:06:46 <mroman_> even though runtime magic solves a lot of problems 13:06:52 <int-e> (rather than unusable and ridiculously memory hungry) 13:06:52 <mroman_> it introduces a hell lot of other problems as well 13:07:01 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:07:14 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:07:15 <mroman_> well... it turns out that when I run it from eclipse eclipse injects some old version of something 13:07:23 <mroman_> which causes runtime incompatibilities 13:07:29 <int-e> mroman_: can you still laugh about the term "XML programming"? 13:07:44 <mroman_> What's XML programming? 13:07:54 <int-e> I remember that after some forays into spring configuration files, I no longer could. 13:08:13 <mroman_> Is that the thing in Java that all configuration is made with huuuuge xml files 13:08:47 <mroman_> that have to be in some specific directories 13:08:51 <mroman_> or in the classpath 13:08:53 <mroman_> or somewhere else 13:09:07 <int-e> "XML programming" is a variation on "HTML programming", which is a derogatory term, a half joke. 13:09:14 <mroman_> Oh. I see. 13:09:18 <mroman_> Well 13:09:25 <mroman_> You can program in XLST or something though? 13:09:48 * int-e hopes that's xslt 13:10:07 <mroman_> Right. :) 13:10:14 <mroman_> I've never used that. 13:10:21 <mroman_> I've heavily used JAXB though. 13:10:24 <mroman_> and JAX-RS 13:10:27 <int-e> I agree it's an actual programming language, but it really needs a better syntax. 13:10:54 <int-e> I'm not kidding. XML syntax is *not* human readable, never mind maintainable. 13:10:54 <mroman_> and this whole servlet containers, servlets and whatever thing is also a huge mess 13:11:12 <mroman_> there are different servlets, different servlet containers, different implementations of jax-rs and 13:12:24 <mroman_> the hardest part of being a java programmer is navigating through this ugly mess of things :) 13:12:57 <int-e> anyway, back when I was dabbling with some enterprisey java behemoth, the two things I hated most were a) dependency injection via XML (e.g. spring) and b) browsing source code files and ending up with an interface ... whuch then turns out to have exactly one implementation. 13:13:57 <mroman_> I'm using guice for that 13:14:01 <mroman_> to inject things 13:14:06 <int-e> hmm, "whuch" 13:14:24 <mroman_> It has it's downside though 13:14:24 <int-e> that was 5 years ago, I have not touched Java since 13:14:33 <mroman_> for simple stuff I'd prefer factories but that's just my opinion 13:15:06 <mroman_> the good thing is that every java newcomer will now what a factory is 13:15:30 <mroman_> but reading up on all the crazy shit you can do with guice and then use it in a reasonable way is another story 13:16:22 <mroman_> luckily simple things with guice are still simple to do :) 13:18:44 * int-e is living in a dream world where Java doesn't exist ;) 13:18:58 <mroman_> I'm living in a dream world where ecosystems of languages merge 13:19:28 <int-e> good one 13:19:31 <mroman_> and languages are just syntactic sugar 13:20:12 <mroman_> You'd just need some way of automatically deriving bindings of something 13:20:37 <int-e> quick, write an NSF grant proposal about it... 13:21:15 <mroman_> NSF? 13:22:37 <int-e> National Science Foundation (which is a US thing, other countries have similar institutions, but I picked the NSF as the one that is most likely to be known) 13:22:38 <mroman_> Somebody should've just created a garbage collected version of C 13:22:51 <mroman_> with separate compilations 13:22:54 <int-e> there's no point 13:22:57 <mroman_> then everybody could just stick to using that :) 13:23:20 <int-e> People who write C don't believe in GC to such an extent that they will actively fight against having one. 13:23:50 <mroman_> Yeah 13:23:56 <mroman_> too bad they don't believe in memory safety 13:24:09 <int-e> Well, see Rust. 13:24:17 <mroman_> Rust is pretty good, yeh 13:24:29 <int-e> But no GC. I wonder why... ;) 13:24:38 <mroman_> well... it guarantees memory safety 13:24:45 <mroman_> that's good enough. 13:26:29 <mroman_> now Rust just needs servlets, servlet containers, servlet container containers, container servlets, enterprise servlets, enterprise beans, plain old enterprise beans 13:28:10 <Jafet> You can already use boehmgc to get a garbage collected version of C 13:28:54 <Jafet> That's usually silly, though, since there are much better languages with garbage collection 13:29:52 <mroman_> or Rust. 13:31:30 <Jafet> I think the last time they tried to standardize language bindings, they ended up with CORBA. 13:35:20 <mroman_> CORBA uses networking? 13:35:38 <mroman_> I'd be more interested in some form of ABI 13:44:27 -!- SopaXT has joined. 13:47:54 <mroman_> what's sensitivity and specifity again? 13:48:37 <mroman_> true positive and true negative? 13:49:25 <mroman_> ah. probability of testing positive if you're actually positive 13:53:07 -!- boily has joined. 13:54:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:59:33 <boily> bon matørjan! 13:59:59 <oerjan> god ettermiddoily! 14:00:20 * oerjan notes disturbingly a piece has fallen off his laptop 14:01:00 <int-e> . o O ( quick, catch it, before it gets away! ) 14:01:41 <oerjan> i did 14:02:20 <oerjan> some small plasticy cylinder/disk 14:02:48 <int-e> a mystery part 14:03:30 <boily> it's a magic blue smoke conduit hth 14:03:39 * oerjan found a place it probably fits 14:03:52 <oerjan> it was black hth 14:04:09 <boily> the place the magic blue smoke conduit fits in? tdsh. 14:04:32 <oerjan> the materical resembles the protective "feet" of the laptop, but seems to fit in a much smaller hole. 14:04:35 <oerjan> *-c 14:04:45 <oerjan> (rubbery) 14:07:47 <oerjan> apparently the english term _is_ rubber feet huh 14:08:35 <oerjan> or bumper 14:09:30 <int-e> @metar lowi 14:09:30 <lambdabot> LOWI 061350Z 05007KT 360V090 9999 VCTS FEW055CB SCT070TCU 29/17 Q1021 NOSIG 14:09:48 <int-e> ...cooling off ever so slowly... 14:09:59 <mroman_> @metar LSZH 14:09:59 <lambdabot> LSZH 061350Z 30004KT 230V350 9999 FEW060CB 30/15 Q1022 NOSIG 14:10:20 <mroman_> it's quite hot alright. 14:10:34 <mroman_> and I'm sitting in beach shorts and a muscle shirt at work 14:10:58 * int-e tries to connect "work" and "Saturday", but fails. 14:11:06 <oerjan> @metar ENVA 14:11:06 <lambdabot> ENVA 061350Z 04003KT 020V080 9999 -SHRA FEW020 SCT030 BKN050 15/11 Q1004 RMK WIND 670FT 08003KT 14:11:22 <oerjan> apparently norway is "north of the jet stream" tdnh 14:11:34 <int-e> oerjan: sounds pleasant :P 14:11:52 <mroman_> int-e: I'm working every day 14:11:54 <mroman_> almost every day 14:12:22 <oerjan> int-e: except it means, paradoxically, that global warming sometimes makes our country _colder_. 14:12:30 <mroman_> On average I work on 6.2 days a week 14:12:42 <oerjan> afaiu 14:13:02 <mroman_> although it can go up to 7 days a week when I feel like doing that 14:14:27 <int-e> oerjan: so averages are paradoxical now? 14:17:02 <boily> @metar CYUL 14:17:02 <lambdabot> CYUL 061400Z 33011G18KT 320V020 30SM FEW040 FEW240 13/02 A3015 RMK CU1CI1 CU TR SLP210 14:17:40 <oerjan> well my vague impression is that global warming in the arctic is stronger, which causes the arctic climate region (bounded by the jet stream) to _expand_ 14:18:43 * oerjan wikipedes before spreading more hearsay 14:23:59 <oerjan> hm ok wikipedia disagrees with the vague impression 14:25:04 <oerjan> except that it may become "more variable in its course" 14:26:28 <oerjan> also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_stream#Unpowered_aerial_attack 14:27:24 <oerjan> "Oishi's work largely went unnoticed outside Japan because it was published in Esperanto." 14:29:06 <mroman_> I think we should just do what Futurama did. 14:29:17 <mroman_> Mine some large ice blocks from Mars and dump it into our seas 14:29:40 <mroman_> Let's just hope there are no dangerous viruses or bacterias in that ice block from Mars. 14:29:46 <oerjan> i'm sure that'll do wonders for the sea level, too 14:29:52 <mroman_> also.. why has no Rover yet landed on Mars's ice? 14:30:27 <oerjan> perhaps it's tricky to land in polar regions 14:30:29 <mroman_> Who cares about sea level. 14:30:46 <mroman_> fungot: Do you care about sea levels? 14:30:46 <fungot> mroman_: " cooks need not be fnord will give' fnord this will sound too fnord will sound fnord': like very old friends, in fnord fnord: they fnord not for reward nor thanks: their cheeks are hot with honest shame for you, to give the prizes?" quite distinctly. 14:30:52 <mroman_> ^style 14:30:52 <fungot> Available: agora alice* c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 14:30:56 <mroman_> ^style irc 14:30:56 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 14:30:59 <mroman_> fungot: Do you care about sea levels? 14:31:00 <fungot> mroman_: queues would make more sense to work with cygwin. 14:31:10 <mroman_> /o\ 14:31:11 <myndzi> | 14:31:11 <myndzi> /| 14:31:53 <mroman_> We'll just build huge walls around sea shores 14:32:00 <mroman_> like we do around borders of countries 14:32:30 <oerjan> Strahlstrom sound so much more ominous. 14:32:34 <oerjan> *sounds 14:33:07 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:33:13 <mroman_> fungot: Do you obey the queen? 14:33:13 <fungot> mroman_: s/ dictionary/ fnord :)) then it is 14:33:30 <boily> everything's a fnord to the fungot. 14:33:30 <fungot> boily: i don't even understand what's there to understand the implications though, i don't want it to 14:33:31 <mroman_> You should do s/dictionary/fnord on Wikipedia . 14:33:46 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:34:02 <oerjan> mroman_: the dutch have some experience with that. 14:34:41 <mroman_> A fnord is a collection of words. A broad distinction is made between general and specialized fnords. The oldest known fnords were Akkadian Empire cuneiform tablets. 14:34:47 <mroman_> oerjan: What did the dutch do? 14:35:03 <oerjan> well they got a bunch of dikes 14:36:07 <oerjan> and reclaimed some land from the sea 14:36:16 <mroman_> Oh. 14:36:30 <mroman_> I thought that was related to globally replacing words in the dutch wikipedia 14:36:42 <oerjan> i would know nothing about that 14:37:32 <oerjan> dutch is one of my "wtf would anyone want to sound like that" languages, next to arabic. 14:39:29 <mroman_> In my opinion tonal languages sound much weirder 14:39:42 <mroman_> (secretly hoping that arabic isn't a tonal language) 14:40:00 <oerjan> not that i've heard of 14:42:53 <boily> just listened to http://omniglot.com/soundfiles/udhr/udhr_nl.mp3 . there are too many /χ/ to my taste. 14:43:49 <mroman_> χ is cool 14:44:08 <mroman_> Obviously it's a very common sound in swiss german. 14:45:05 <mroman_> but you're right. They overuse that more than we do 14:45:22 <mroman_> but arabic doesn't sound too bad 14:46:09 <mroman_> imo 14:46:31 <mroman_> I'd totally learn it if it were free to do so 14:46:34 <boily> well, it depends on the Arabic fork and version... Algerian Arabic is fun, because they tend to put in random French words in it. 14:47:03 <boily> (otoh, it's not fun because of Berber phonotactics.) 14:48:04 <mroman_> (and by free I mean a free coach with at least 2.5h per week) 14:48:29 <mroman_> and 0.5h of those have to be specific voice/pronunciation coaching 14:48:49 <mroman_> I hate that people don't put enough emphasis on correctly pronouncing foreign languages 14:49:15 <mroman_> My english pronunciation is fucking terrible 14:49:20 <mroman_> but still better than Ueli Maurer's. 14:50:06 <oerjan> mroman_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5PaPHFC6y0 14:51:01 <FireFly> argh 14:51:04 <mroman_> What's with that? 14:51:32 <mroman_> That's about as good as most non-native-english-speaking politicians 14:51:56 <oerjan> mroman_: he's infamous in norway for it 14:52:01 <mroman_> I think that if a dutch speaks english it sounds worse to dutch people than to german people :) 14:52:11 <mroman_> or a norwegian :) 14:52:14 <mroman_> doesn't sound too bad to me 14:52:56 <mroman_> mainly because norwegians probably recognize common miss-pronunciations better in Jagland than I would 14:53:05 <oerjan> mroman_: FireFly disagrees and he's not norwegian hth 14:53:12 <mroman_> whatever 14:53:17 <mroman_> I sound equally bad I think 14:53:30 <mroman_> Unless I really try hard to fake some non existing british accent 14:53:41 <mroman_> then it sounds OK at least to me but It'd probably piss of the quenn. 14:55:33 * oerjan admits to sometimes trying to read english aloud like david attenborough 14:56:08 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 14:56:12 <FireFly> I think my english pronounciation is pretty bad, too 14:57:11 <Lyka> hi all 14:57:27 <oerjan> hi Lyka 14:58:14 * oerjan tried to google thor heyerdahl but only found a parody of him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxpeCR4OX34 14:58:21 <Lyka> adaptor to connect the arduino touch-screen to the arduino mega came today 14:58:43 <Lyka> so now i have to figure out how to program this thing 15:00:23 <oerjan> hm wait more in the sidebar 15:01:08 <Lyka> see if i can create 4FK Cuddlefish for it without modifying the core languge 15:03:16 -!- tromp__ has joined. 15:03:17 <Lyka> 4FK's current extension system allows for 6 base-32 chars and 4 unsigned chars (1-byte) each loaded in the form of 2 hex chars 15:03:21 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:04:44 <Lyka> the core commands are made up of 4 printable-ascii chars (minus space and lowercase) 15:07:03 <Lyka> and the six b32s in the extention command form can also be of any of the 78 valid chars, not just the 32 in base32 15:07:38 <Lyka> just that numerical input has to be in hex or b32 15:11:24 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:11:32 -!- tromp_ has joined. 15:46:15 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:50:20 -!- Wright has joined. 15:54:02 <oerjan> `? the reals 15:54:19 <HackEgo> The reals are a complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. They are universally useful in homotopy. 15:54:24 <oerjan> `? real 15:54:25 <HackEgo> real? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 15:54:32 -!- hilquias has joined. 15:54:57 <oerjan> `run mv wisdom/{"the reals",real} 15:55:00 <HackEgo> No output. 15:55:03 <oerjan> `? the reals 15:55:03 <HackEgo> the reals? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 15:55:12 <oerjan> `? real 15:55:13 <HackEgo> The reals are a complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. They are universally useful in homotopy. 15:55:20 <oerjan> oh right 15:55:22 <oerjan> oh well 15:58:10 * Taneb is real 15:59:06 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/\..*/./' wisdom/real 15:59:08 <HackEgo> No output. 16:02:12 <oerjan> `? real 16:02:13 <HackEgo> The reals are a complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. 16:02:34 <Taneb> Interestingly, I was born in 1994. They must be my earliest invention. 16:02:51 <oerjan> that occurr?ed to me as well. 16:03:14 <shachaf> Are your inventions wellordered? 16:03:21 <Taneb> Yes 16:03:31 <oerjan> `? tanebventions 16:03:34 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, and this sentence. 16:04:03 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/, and/, the reals, and/' wisdom/tanebvention 16:04:05 <HackEgo> No output. 16:04:07 <oerjan> `? tanebventions 16:04:08 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, and this sentence. 16:04:35 <shachaf> `? the reals 16:04:35 <HackEgo> the reals? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:04:37 <myname> i hate you fpr the go part 16:04:46 <shachaf> oerjan: please fix twh 16:04:58 <oerjan> shachaf: i feel ambivalent 16:04:58 <shachaf> `? this sentence 16:04:59 <HackEgo> This sentence was invented by Taneb. Taneb invented it. 16:05:39 <oerjan> shachaf: it would mean that `? would need to check up to 4 files 16:05:39 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/was/was not/' wisdom/this\ sentence 16:05:42 <HackEgo> No output. 16:06:24 <shachaf> oerjan: how about redirect wisdom entries 16:06:35 <shachaf> symlinks are too fragile 16:06:49 <oerjan> i don't entirely trust HackEgo redirects 16:07:20 <shachaf> Do those already exist? 16:07:26 <oerjan> `? ngevd 16:07:27 <HackEgo> ​|^n3e>ooѶs;ҤfcokajƻB#8.оWտqnɪ8[pZqƿtNH>a<s;YvQvDKWJuRYknwXpGN<uCF+Gr=J)Gȯ'秽f hijb-Zmʊ"x3$@ke;v?9o8) 16:07:34 <oerjan> oh wait that's special-cased 16:07:50 <int-e> HackEgo: what?! 16:07:50 <shachaf> i mean a special sort of wisdom entry that says "see this other wisdom entry" 16:08:02 <oerjan> nah 16:08:07 <int-e> `? special 16:08:08 <HackEgo> special? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:08:21 <oerjan> i suspect there already are some wisdom/ redirects 16:08:23 <int-e> `? recursion 16:08:23 <HackEgo> recursion? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:08:58 <shachaf> `` find wisdom -type l 16:08:59 <HackEgo> wisdom/perpetuum mobile \ wisdom/the torus \ wisdom/koen_ \ wisdom/issue \ wisdom/canary 16:09:31 <oerjan> `le/rn recursion See:clichés. 16:09:33 <oerjan> oops 16:09:34 <int-e> `le/rn recursion/You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW 16:09:36 <HackEgo> Learned «recursion» 16:09:37 <HackEgo> Learned «recursion see:clichés.» 16:09:53 <int-e> wait, how did my command beat yours? 16:09:58 <shachaf> no / 16:10:07 <oerjan> `? recursion 16:10:08 <HackEgo> You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW 16:10:13 <shachaf> wait, that's not what you were asking 16:10:30 <oerjan> shachaf: that might be the answer though 16:10:45 * int-e keeps forgetting that hackego is parallel and asynchronous 16:11:35 <oerjan> `` ls wisdom/'the torus' 16:11:36 <HackEgo> wisdom/the torus 16:11:39 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/recursion see:clichés. 16:11:41 <HackEgo> No output. 16:11:43 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/'the torus' 16:11:46 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 5 Apr 15 07:52 wisdom/the torus -> torus 16:11:55 <shachaf> precedent 16:12:03 <oerjan> shachaf: you're right 16:12:16 <oerjan> `` ln -s wisdom/{real,"the reals"} 16:12:18 <HackEgo> No output. 16:12:24 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa 16:12:24 <int-e> `? strange loop 16:12:25 <HackEgo> strange loop? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:12:26 <shachaf> that doesn't work 16:12:29 <oerjan> `? the reals 16:12:29 <HackEgo> the reals? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:12:35 <oerjan> `? real 16:12:36 <HackEgo> The reals are a complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. 16:12:44 <shachaf> ln takes a relative path hth 16:12:48 <oerjan> darn 16:12:55 <int-e> . o O ( `le/rn strange loop/See also: GEB. ) 16:13:01 <oerjan> `` ln -s real wisdom/{"the reals"} 16:13:03 <HackEgo> No output. 16:13:06 <oerjan> `? the reals 16:13:06 <HackEgo> the reals? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:13:23 <oerjan> is it still wrong 16:13:27 <oerjan> `? real 16:13:27 <shachaf> wait 16:13:27 <HackEgo> The reals are a complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. 16:13:37 <oerjan> `` ln -s wisdom/{"the reals"} real 16:13:39 <HackEgo> No output. 16:13:43 <oerjan> `? the reals 16:13:43 <HackEgo> the reals? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:13:44 <shachaf> `ls wisdom/{the reals} 16:13:45 <HackEgo> wisdom/{the reals} 16:13:52 <oerjan> wat 16:14:01 <int-e> {} only works with commas 16:14:02 <shachaf> {} only works for two or more entries 16:14:04 <oerjan> `` ln -s wisdom/"the reals" real 16:14:05 <HackEgo> ln: failed to create symbolic link `real': File exists 16:14:12 <oerjan> `` ln -s real wisdom/"the reals" 16:14:13 <HackEgo> ln: accessing `wisdom/the reals': Not a directory 16:14:22 <oerjan> stupid inconsitencise 16:14:23 <shachaf> that's because someone tried to mix APIs and UIs and ended up with something that wasn't good at either 16:14:54 <oerjan> `` rm wisdom/"{the reals}" 16:14:55 <HackEgo> No output. 16:15:02 <oerjan> `? the reals 16:15:03 <HackEgo> the reals? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:15:06 <int-e> yay! it's raining. 16:15:12 <int-e> @metar LOWI 16:15:13 <lambdabot> LOWI 061550Z 28006KT 220V340 9999 -TSRA SCT060CB SCT070TCU 25/17 Q1021 TEMPO TSRA 16:15:17 <shachaf> @metar KOAK 16:15:18 <lambdabot> KOAK 061553Z VRB03KT 10SM OVC011 16/12 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP128 T01560122 16:15:23 <oerjan> `` ln -s wisdom/"the reals" real 16:15:24 <HackEgo> ln: failed to create symbolic link `real': File exists 16:15:34 <oerjan> ... 16:15:38 <shachaf> almost there hth 16:15:48 <oerjan> `` ln -s real wisdom/"the reals" 16:15:49 <HackEgo> ln: accessing `wisdom/the reals': Not a directory 16:15:59 <oerjan> wtf is _happening_ 16:16:04 <int-e> `` ln -s real wisdom/the\ reals 16:16:05 <HackEgo> ln: accessing `wisdom/the reals': Not a directory 16:16:09 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/"the reals" 16:16:10 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 11 Jun 6 16:13 wisdom/the reals -> wisdom/real 16:16:12 <int-e> fun. 16:16:22 <oerjan> `` rm wisdom/"the reals" 16:16:25 <HackEgo> No output. 16:16:27 <oerjan> `` ln -s real wisdom/"the reals" 16:16:27 <int-e> `? the reals 16:16:29 <HackEgo> the reals? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:16:30 <HackEgo> No output. 16:16:33 <int-e> `? the reals 16:16:33 <oerjan> `? the reals 16:16:33 <HackEgo> The reals are a complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. 16:16:34 <HackEgo> The reals are a complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. 16:16:39 <oerjan> YAY 16:16:41 <int-e> ......... 16:16:59 <int-e> "Not a directory" indeed. 16:17:56 <shachaf> `` find wisdom -type l | while read f; do echo -n "$(basename "$f")/"; readlink "$f"; done 16:17:57 <HackEgo> the reals/real \ perpetuum mobile/perpetual motion machine \ the torus/torus \ koen_/koen \ issue/.doorstop \ canary/../canary 16:18:14 <int-e> `? canary 16:18:15 <HackEgo> chirp 16:18:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Elronnd * New user account 16:18:46 <int-e> `ls 16:18:46 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ script.py \ share \ src \ test \ test.c \ twoli 16:19:12 <int-e> `` echo cough > canary 16:19:14 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 16:19:15 <HackEgo> No output. 16:19:24 <shachaf> `` ls -l real 16:19:25 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 18 Jun 6 16:15 real -> wisdom/{the reals} 16:19:59 <int-e> `` shuf -n 3 random_elliott 16:20:00 <HackEgo> k \ x \ e 16:20:58 <oerjan> `cat test.c 16:20:59 <HackEgo> int main () { printf("hm"); } 16:21:12 <oerjan> `` rm test* 16:21:14 <HackEgo> No output. 16:21:26 <shachaf> `cat bin/wisdom 16:21:26 <HackEgo> N=$(find wisdom -type f | wc -l); F="$(find wisdom -type f | head -n $((RANDOM % N)) | tail -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/"; cat "$F" 16:21:29 <shachaf> ridiculous 16:21:48 <int-e> `cat quines/c 16:21:49 <HackEgo> ​ELF............>......@.....@.......(..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@........................................@......@............................................@.......@................... ..................`.....`.....@......H........ .................`.....`............................ 16:21:55 <int-e> `quines/c 16:21:56 <HackEgo> ​#include <stdio.h> \ char*a="#include <stdio.h>\nchar*a=\"@\";\nvoid main(){char*b=a;for(;(*a)!=0;a++){switch(*a){case '@':if(!(*b))putchar('@');for(;(*b)!=0;b++){switch(*b){case '\"':case '\\\\':putchar('\\\\');putchar(*b);break;case '\\n':putchar('\\\\');putchar('n');break;default:putchar(*b);}}break;default:putchar(*a);}}}"; \ void main(){cha 16:22:17 <shachaf> `` echo 'F="$(find wisdom -type f | shuf | head -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/"; cat "$F"' > bin/wisdom 16:22:19 <HackEgo> No output. 16:22:23 <oerjan> for a second there, i was about to complain they'd saved the binary instead of the code 16:22:29 <int-e> itym shuf -n 1 16:22:43 <shachaf> feel free to fix it hth 16:23:21 <shachaf> Usually I've used sort -R 16:23:48 <int-e> I suppose HackEEgo has enough memory to hold the wisdom/ filelist all at once. 16:24:18 <int-e> `wisdom 16:24:19 <HackEgo> ​⊥/⊥ is a bottom tack, useful for annoying teachers. 16:25:15 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/shuf | head -n1/shuf -n1/' bin/wisdom 16:25:17 <HackEgo> No output. 16:25:42 <shachaf> Isn't it great how sometimes you escape the | and sometimes you don't? 16:25:47 <oerjan> `cat bin/wisdom 16:25:48 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/"; cat "$F" 16:25:55 <shachaf> It would be too simple if there was one convention for regular expressions in the world. 16:26:05 <oerjan> AAAAAAAAA 16:26:08 <oerjan> `wisdom 16:26:09 <HackEgo> bdsmreclist/* oerjan swats quintopia -----### \ <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits 16:26:10 <int-e> annoying ... adverb or infinitive? 16:26:37 <oerjan> int-e: definitely not infinitive hth 16:27:00 <shachaf> nor adverb? 16:27:01 <oerjan> itym participle 16:27:11 <int-e> err gerund 16:28:21 <int-e> shachaf: nah, it could be an adverb. preaching teachers, annoying teachers. 16:28:33 <boily> `wisdom 16:28:35 <HackEgo> welcome.fi/Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric palvelimella irc.dal.net.) 16:28:56 <shachaf> int-e: How is that an adverb? 16:28:57 <int-e> oerjan: grammer is hard (i did that on purpose) 16:29:28 <int-e> meh 16:29:33 <quintopia> helloily 16:29:42 <int-e> Ok, I'm wrong. 16:30:12 <boily> quinthellopia 16:30:18 <quintopia> annoying is usually used as adjective or verb 16:30:22 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:30:23 <HackEgo> york/York used to be known as Amsterdam. 16:30:24 * int-e goes find some reference. 16:30:30 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:30:31 <HackEgo> west midlands/Nobody knows anything about the West Midlands, and it has claimed the lives of at least two former regulars in this channel who tried to investigate so far. 16:30:39 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:30:40 <HackEgo> york/York used to be known as Amsterdam. 16:30:47 * boily needs food badly 16:30:48 <shachaf> are you sure this shuf thing is reliable 16:30:52 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:30:54 <HackEgo> lie/Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups. 16:30:58 <boily> shachaf: as reliable as fungot. 16:30:58 <fungot> boily: and on the net and " oletko ismo" of all the repos on the front of the alist? ( i know because i've never gotten it to work 16:30:58 <quintopia> what do you need 16:31:17 <boily> food. I need to go grocery shopping and stuff. 16:31:25 <shachaf> ^style 16:31:25 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 16:31:30 <shachaf> en ole ismo 16:31:35 <boily> fungot: go oletko ismo yourself, you vile spawn. 16:31:35 <fungot> boily: that " fnord" " neck" " eye" " fnord/ new/ scheme 16:31:41 <shachaf> boily: whoa whoa whoa 16:31:46 <shachaf> "oletko" is finnish for "are you" 16:31:55 <boily> oh. uhm. eeeeeh... 16:31:59 <quintopia> shop for veggies of the awesome viet chef sort? 16:32:08 <boily> viet chef? 16:32:46 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:32:47 <HackEgo> urbandictionary/Urban Dictionary is an alternative, inferior wisdom database. 16:32:51 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:32:51 <HackEgo> nepeta leijon/Nepeta Leijon is the maintainer of the official Alternian shipping wall. 16:32:54 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:32:55 <quintopia> cook the food eat the food 16:32:55 <HackEgo> wiki/The wiki is at http://esolangs.org/wiki 16:33:33 <boily> sounds like a plan. buy the food, cook, ?????, profit. 16:33:36 <oerjan> int-e: "grammer" is spelling, not grammar hth 16:33:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GYROSCOPIC CHICKEN). 16:34:04 <quintopia> oerjan: it was a metajoke 16:35:22 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:35:23 <HackEgo> colour/Colour is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthul 16:35:28 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:35:29 <HackEgo> justice/Justice is just behavior or treatment. 16:35:32 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:35:33 <HackEgo> burma/ask Bike 16:35:39 <int-e> Ok, I meant[4~ participle and gerund. 16:36:19 <int-e> oerjan: it be harder to mess grammar up. though much harder not, granting. 16:36:30 <quintopia> participle 16:37:04 <shachaf> i used to confuse "burma" and "bursa" 16:37:18 <shachaf> the latter as in a stock exchange or something 16:38:21 <int-e> (Now I need to find a way to mess up grammar without sounding like Yoda.) 16:38:38 <quintopia> i confuse mercy with mrsa 16:39:32 <Taneb> int-e, mess up grammar is ease 16:39:37 <oerjan> grammarer are verys easied to's the messily up 16:40:07 <int-e> But it's hard to make it look like and accidently. 16:40:33 <oerjan> that mays be true 16:40:34 <int-e> hmpf. s/and/an/ is what I meant to type. 16:40:41 <shachaf> Messing up grammar is impossible. 16:43:07 <oerjan> int-e: would grammar excessively initial-head be opposite the of yoda? 16:43:09 <quintopia> messing up grammar is harder than yoda 16:43:35 <oerjan> oops 16:43:43 <oerjan> *initial-head excessively 16:43:51 <oerjan> is grammar hard 16:45:06 <int-e> hmm, the co-yoda lemma 16:48:22 <oerjan> you also yoda than further head-finally even go could 16:53:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ->). 16:54:31 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:54:32 <HackEgo> log/I think you might mean !logs 16:54:34 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:54:35 <HackEgo> phantom___hoover/Phantom___Hoover sucks at ghosting himself. 16:55:22 <Taneb> Is it possible to ghost the account you are using? 16:55:29 <Taneb> Huh, no it isn't 16:55:36 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:55:37 <HackEgo> the u/The U are a very mad people. 16:59:34 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:20:51 -!- idris-bot has joined. 17:23:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:23:49 <ais523> @messages 17:23:49 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages 17:29:19 <shachaf> `wisdom 17:29:20 <HackEgo> luxembourg/Luxembourg is adequate. 17:29:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Ais523 * blocked [[User:2.98.83.249]] with an expiry time of 2 decades, 4 years, 4 hours, 19 minutes and 12 seconds (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): replacing pages with material that's offtopic, probably also copyvio 17:33:38 <ais523> an IP cleaned up the spam; thanks IP 17:34:00 <ais523> "with an expiry time of 2 decades, 4 years, 4 hours, 19 minutes and 12 seconds" 17:34:08 <ais523> interesting definition of "24 years", MediaWiki 17:36:07 <ais523> it's always a little awkward as an admin when one person/IP you don't recognise starts vandalising and another cleans it up 17:36:13 <ais523> because it's so easy to block the wrong one by mistake 17:36:21 * ais523 double-checks 17:39:54 <Melvar> > var "\SO" 17:40:37 <ais523> hmm, do you mean \SOH? (just guessing, I don't know) 17:40:45 <Melvar> No. 17:40:49 <Melvar> > "\SO" 17:40:52 <lambdabot> "\SO" 17:41:06 <Melvar> > var "x\SOy" 17:41:07 <lambdabot> xy 17:41:20 <Melvar> Looks like it filters it. 17:41:35 <Melvar> > "\SO" ++ "H" 17:41:38 <lambdabot> "\SO\&H" 17:42:08 <Melvar> ais523: ↑ This needs a special-case when writing show. 17:42:20 <ais523> haha, beautiful 17:42:29 <ais523> is \& a specific no-op escape sequence? 17:42:39 <Melvar> It is indeed an emptystring escape sequence. 17:42:43 <Melvar> You also need it for 17:43:00 <Melvar> > "\256" ++ "0" 17:43:02 <lambdabot> "\256\&0" 17:43:07 <Taneb> > length "\&\&\&" 17:43:09 <lambdabot> 0 17:43:12 <Taneb> Huuuh 17:43:22 <Melvar> To show where the escape sequence ends. 17:44:10 <Melvar> IIRC \SO is the only controlchar escape that is a prefix of another (\SOH). 17:44:13 <ais523> in order to deal with this sort of thing, Perl eventually entered a convention where escape sequences were of the form backslash, letter, then an almost arbitrary string surrounded by braces 17:44:49 <ais523> although reading about bugfixes in B::Deparse is always hilarious 17:45:08 <ais523> B::Deparse's purpose is to take what's basically an AST for a Perl program, and convert it back into Perl syntax 17:45:16 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:45:19 <ais523> and it's hugely difficult to make it roundtrip because Perl syntax has so many ambiguous cases 17:47:07 <Melvar> I am currently working on fixing a bug in parsers that adds yet another way to crash idris-bot. 17:49:16 <ais523> my research compiler can be crashed with a simple mockingbird :-( 17:49:28 <ais523> :t \x -> (x x) 17:49:30 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: r1 ~ r1 -> r 17:49:31 <lambdabot> Relevant bindings include x :: r1 -> r (bound at <interactive>:1:2) 17:49:31 <lambdabot> In the first argument of ‘x’, namely ‘x’ 17:49:41 <ais523> how do I express that request in Idris? I'm interested to see what idris-bot makes of it 17:50:21 <Melvar> ( :t \x => (x x) 17:50:21 <idris-bot> (input):1:13-14:Unifying argTy and argTy -> retTy would lead to infinite value 17:51:12 <ais523> I like that error message 17:51:27 <Melvar> It turns out the idris compiler does indeed do occurs checks. It also looks like they are the same for types and values. 17:51:28 <ais523> the problem I'm dealing with is that I'm working with a type system where a mockingbird actually has a type 17:51:31 <ais523> but a double mockingbird doesn't 17:51:54 <Melvar> Hmm. 17:52:40 <Melvar> ( :t \x : (a : Type) -> a -> Nat => x _ x 17:52:40 <idris-bot> \x => x ((a : Type) -> a -> Nat) x : ((a : Type) -> a -> Nat) -> Nat 17:53:00 <Melvar> ( :t \x : {a : Type} -> a -> Nat => x x 17:53:00 <idris-bot> (input):Incomplete term \x => x (([__]) -> Nat) (x ([__])) 17:53:25 <Melvar> Ah, yeah, it won’t work implicitly. 17:53:31 <ais523> (the type is "(('a -> 'b) + 'a) -> 'b", in whatever syntax you feel like; the language doesn't have a syntax for polymorphic types yet but my brain defaults to OCaml) 17:54:27 <Melvar> ( (\x : (a : Type) -> a -> Nat => x _ x) (\_ _ => 0) 17:54:27 <idris-bot> (input):1:44: error: expected: ",", 17:54:27 <idris-bot> ":", "=>", "impossible" 17:54:27 <idris-bot> (\x : (a : Type) -> a -> Nat => x _ x) (\_ _ => 0)<EOF> 17:54:27 <idris-bot> ^ 17:54:37 <Melvar> ( (\x : (a : Type) -> a -> Nat => x _ x) (\_,_ => 0) 17:54:38 <idris-bot> 0 : Nat 17:55:51 <ais523> "impossible" is a keyword? 17:55:55 <ais523> I assumed it was a function somehow 17:55:57 <Melvar> > :t \x -> x (x :: forall a. a -> t) 17:56:00 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input ‘:’ 17:56:07 <Melvar> @type \x -> x (x :: forall a. a -> t) 17:56:08 <ais523> although I was probably thinking of "absurd" 17:56:09 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type variable ‘t’ 17:56:20 <Melvar> @type forall t. \x -> x (x :: forall a. a -> t) 17:56:22 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘forall’ 17:56:22 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant ‘forAll’ (imported from Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Trusted) 17:56:22 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type variable ‘t’ 17:56:26 <Melvar> derp. 17:57:01 <ais523> that's an interesting attempt 17:57:04 <Melvar> I can’t do an /\ in any version of surface syntax, can I? 17:57:15 <ais523> but I don't think you can express a mockingbird in System F either 17:57:25 <ais523> (System F = rank N types) 17:58:18 <Melvar> @type ((\x -> x x) :: forall t. (forall a. a -> t) -> t 17:58:19 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 17:58:21 <Melvar> @type ((\x -> x x) :: forall t. (forall a. a -> t) -> t) 17:58:23 <lambdabot> (forall a. a -> t) -> t 17:58:28 -!- glowcoil has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:58:29 -!- mbrcknl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:58:30 <Melvar> There we go. 17:59:25 <Melvar> That’s about what I did there in Idris, but the types are implicit. 17:59:39 <ais523> now I'm trying to get my head around that type 17:59:40 <Melvar> > ((\x -> x x) :: forall t. (forall a. a -> t) -> t) (\_ _ -> 0) 17:59:44 <lambdabot> No instance for (Typeable t0) 17:59:44 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘show_M8673672655092209319045’ 17:59:44 <lambdabot> In the expression: 17:59:58 <Melvar> > ((\x -> x x) :: forall t. (forall a. a -> t) -> t) (\_ _ -> 0 :: Integer) 18:00:00 <lambdabot> No instance for (Typeable t0) 18:00:01 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘show_M56881207109249090619065’ 18:00:01 <lambdabot> In the expression: 18:00:08 <ais523> you're basically requiring that the function to be mockingbird'ed doesn't look at its argument, right? 18:00:16 <Melvar> Pretty much. 18:00:31 <ais523> actually that fits in with my research pretty well 18:01:20 <int-e> > (\(x :: forall a. a -> t) -> x x) (\_ -> 0) 18:01:22 <lambdabot> 0 18:01:45 <Melvar> Ohderp. 18:01:52 <Melvar> > ((\x -> x x) :: forall t. (forall a. a -> t) -> t) (\_ -> 0 :: Integer) 18:01:55 <lambdabot> 0 18:02:01 <Melvar> It was only in the idris one that the function was two-arg. 18:02:17 <int-e> oh type arguments... yay 18:02:45 <ais523> > let m = (((\x -> x x) :: forall t. (forall a. a -> t) -> t)) in m m 18:02:47 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type ‘a’ with ‘forall a1. a1 -> t’ 18:02:47 <lambdabot> ‘a’ is a rigid type variable bound by 18:02:47 <lambdabot> a type expected by the context: a -> t at <interactive>:1:65 18:03:08 <ais523> hmm, that error message is surprisingly reasonable given how insane the original program is 18:03:37 <int-e> SPJ actually cares about error messages 18:03:57 <ais523> so do I, but it's hard to produce good ones, because computers are very hard at working out why something is wrong 18:04:07 <int-e> SPJ is also smart *ducks* 18:04:10 <ais523> I like ayacc's error messages 18:04:33 <int-e> (and one of ghc's principal implementors) 18:04:54 <ais523> ../ayacc: warning: shift/reduce conflict on symbol DIVIDE at shift-reduce.y line 10 18:04:56 <ais523> ../ayacc: info: conflict is reached after, e.g., expr MINUS expr . DIVIDE 18:04:58 <ais523> ../ayacc: info: to resolve the conflict: specify a precedence for DIVIDE 18:05:20 <int-e> ah yes, such witnesses are helpful. 18:07:06 <b_jonas> _some_ compilers are. some stupid ones like MSVC are quite bad at it. 18:08:13 <b_jonas> I actually accidentally found a case where gcc produces an insane error message too, and reported it 18:08:33 <b_jonas> though at least it didn't segfault or anything 18:09:02 <Melvar> Now let me see if I can’t restrict that from Type to a universe … 18:09:19 <Melvar> I … probably can’t define that in the repl? 18:09:41 <ais523> int-e: I can't reliably produce witnesses for reduce/reduce conflicts; I try but they might be incorrect 18:09:53 <ais523> ../ayacc: warning: reduce/reduce conflict on symbol ID at reduce-reduce.y line 8 18:09:55 <ais523> ../ayacc: info: conflicting rule at reduce-reduce.y line 10 18:09:57 <ais523> ../ayacc: info: conflict is reached after something like: program '(' type ')' . ID 18:09:58 <ais523> thus the "something like" 18:10:08 <ais523> I think determining whether a grammar is ambiguous in general is undecidable, right? 18:10:11 <ais523> so ayacc has to come to a best guess 18:10:33 <ais523> (that example is a correct one, though, for the grammar I gave it) 18:10:46 <b_jonas> ais523: you don't have to determine if it's ambiguous, only if it's not LALR 18:11:10 <ais523> b_jonas: well, yes 18:11:24 <ais523> but if it's not LALR for LALR spuriousness reasons, it's impossible to come up with a good example 18:11:30 <ais523> because there isn't a single example that causes the problem 18:11:44 <b_jonas> exactly 18:13:20 <Melvar> ( :let mutual data Uni : Type where NAT : Uni; PI : (t : Uni) -> (interp t -> Uni) -> Uni; interp : Uni -> Type; interp NAT = Nat; interp (PI t f) = (x : interp t) -> interp (f x) 18:13:20 <idris-bot> (input):1:119: error: expected: ":" 18:13:20 <idris-bot> < -> Uni; interp : Uni -> Type; interp NAT = Nat; interp (PI t f) = (x : inter> 18:13:20 <idris-bot> ^ 18:13:29 <b_jonas> this is the bug where gcc gave an insane error message: https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=58363 18:13:51 <Melvar> ( :let mutual data Uni : Type where { NAT : Uni; PI : (t : Uni) -> (interp t -> Uni) -> Uni }; interp : Uni -> Type; interp NAT = Nat; interp (PI t f) = (x : interp t) -> interp (f x) 18:13:51 <idris-bot> (input):1:92: error: not end of 18:13:51 <idris-bot> block, expected: ")", "in", 18:13:51 <idris-bot> declaration, end of input 18:13:51 <idris-bot> <t : Uni) -> (interp t -> Uni) -> Uni }; interp : Uni -> Type; interp NAT = Na> 18:13:51 <idris-bot> ^ 18:13:51 <ais523> b_jonas: I had problems with clang producing warnings in unused halves of a _Generic 18:14:15 <ais523> technically the unused parts of a _Generic have to be parsed and have to be valid C code, so I can understand why it ran the warning checker on them 18:14:18 <Melvar> *Huh*. 18:14:21 <ais523> but as they're provably dead code, I'd hope it wouldn't display the warnings 18:14:37 <b_jonas> ais523: well, it probably depends on what kind of warnings 18:14:37 -!- glowcoil has joined. 18:14:45 <b_jonas> ais523: some warnings should be produced there too, some shouldn't 18:15:11 <b_jonas> ais523: specifically the warnings that could cause errors even if parsed as dead code on other systems or settings 18:15:14 <ais523> b_jonas: type mismatches, especially :-) 18:15:20 <ais523> (given what _Generic's purpose is) 18:15:35 <Melvar> ( :let mutual { data Uni : Type where { NAT : Uni; PI : (t : Uni) -> (interp t -> Uni) -> Uni }; interp : Uni -> Type; interp NAT = Nat; interp (PI t f) = (x : interp t) -> interp (f x) } 18:15:35 <idris-bot> (input):1:94: error: expected: declaration, 18:15:35 <idris-bot> end of block 18:15:35 <idris-bot> <t : Uni) -> (interp t -> Uni) -> Uni }; interp : Uni -> Type; interp NAT = Na> 18:15:35 <idris-bot> ^ 18:15:42 <ais523> it's almost impossible to use _Generic for anything but different types of float atm 18:15:45 <b_jonas> ais523: have you reported it? 18:15:49 <Melvar> Yeah, no. Can’t do it here apparently. 18:15:52 <ais523> b_jonas: no 18:16:01 <ais523> given that it's a feature new enough that it isn't in gcc yet 18:16:06 <ais523> I'm going to wait a while to see how it evolves 18:16:15 <ais523> also my intended use of it was insane 18:16:17 <b_jonas> ais523: exactly, that's why few people are testing it, so they need the feedback from early testers 18:16:26 <ais523> which is the real reason 18:16:29 <ais523> (like, #esoteric levels of insane) 18:16:35 <b_jonas> insane use is no problem, that's how compiler bugs get discovered 18:16:56 <b_jonas> they show up in insane uses, and it's hard to tell without debugging them whether they are connected to a bug that could cause problems in sane code too 18:17:11 <b_jonas> possibly less obvious miscompiles for then 18:17:53 <b_jonas> this particular case I reported wasn't like that, it came from a simplified case of sane code modulo a typo 18:18:09 <b_jonas> but I have reported bugs in perl core from insane esoteric uses 18:18:33 <Melvar> “cannot convert ‘f.#‘var_decl’ not supported by dump_type#<type error>::~’ (type ‘void’) to type ‘int’” – Magnificent. 18:19:01 <b_jonas> (then I even recalled one that I later figured out was not a bug, then it came up a few years later in another ticket and the regex engine people wasn't sure what the correct behaviour should be actually, so I don't know if it's a bug or not.) 18:19:40 <b_jonas> Melvar: yes. they fixed it to less insane, but still not very helpful 18:19:49 <ais523> b_jonas: anyway I think clang's behaviour might have been justified by the standard 18:19:52 <ais523> it's just annoying as a user 18:22:19 <b_jonas> ais523: ok 18:22:56 <Melvar> b_jonas: When that sort of thing happens in idris, which it has, you usually get a standard “inexhaustive case” exception instead of output. 18:24:51 <b_jonas> Melvar: here I did write in the ticket what the sane error message would be imo 18:25:00 <Melvar> b_jonas: I saw. 18:25:05 <ais523> b_jonas: did you come across this by accident, btw? 18:25:11 <b_jonas> ais523: yes 18:25:19 <b_jonas> ais523: it was obviously not a clean short case like this 18:25:26 <b_jonas> but it was easy to reduce 18:25:38 <b_jonas> templates were involved 18:25:52 <b_jonas> and I omitted the parenthesis by accident 18:27:33 -!- scoofy has joined. 18:28:20 <b_jonas> but I was deliberately trying to invoke an explicit destructor call for a scalar type in template context 18:31:35 <ais523> C++ has scalar context? I thought that was a Perl thing 18:31:49 <b_jonas> ais523: not scalar context 18:32:47 <b_jonas> ais523: scalar type, which means something like a type that's one of: pointer, bool, integer, floating point, nullptr_t, pointer to member, and maybe a few more; but definitely not class or union types 18:33:01 <ais523> ah right 18:34:24 <b_jonas> it's basically object types for which it's not even a question that they are trivial (trivially copyable), you can't override operators on them, and are usually uninitialized unless you specifically initialize them 18:34:37 <b_jonas> oh, it includes enums too 18:35:01 <b_jonas> http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/is_scalar has an informal but precise definition, the standard has a formal definition 18:35:55 <b_jonas> this is something that isn't too useful in C, only in C++, because in C, all types are always trivial, and you can't override operators or define special member functions on any type 18:43:29 <b_jonas> hmm… when I work with perl, I should test if https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=29720 bug is still present. it's an annoying bug 18:44:26 <ais523> that's a bizarre bug 18:44:35 <b_jonas> ais523: not really 18:44:43 -!- mbrcknl has joined. 18:44:47 <b_jonas> ais523: perlio was very buggy back then, and is still somewhat buggy 18:44:48 <b_jonas> in general 18:45:09 <ais523> well, there was this bug in aimake where if you try to set a :unix PerlIO layer using binmode 18:45:12 <ais523> it leaks filehandles 18:45:30 <ais523> here: https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=118957 18:45:52 <ais523> admittedly binmode ":unix" doesn't actually make any sense, semantically 18:49:07 <b_jonas> ais523: and there's https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34595 which is another very old perlio bug I reported 18:54:31 -!- atrapado has joined. 18:55:05 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:56:19 -!- izabera has joined. 19:01:05 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:06:48 -!- izabera has joined. 19:24:05 -!- quietello has joined. 19:27:12 -!- atrapado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:27:37 -!- atrapado has joined. 19:29:20 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to bane-of-confusio. 19:33:11 -!- bane-of-confusio has changed nick to copumpkin. 19:39:08 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:44:24 -!- Welo has joined. 19:49:27 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:52:19 -!- atrapado has changed nick to atrapa. 19:57:11 -!- atrapa has changed nick to atrapado. 20:02:57 <oren> linked lists are BS. They are apparently much, much slower than simply using an array and moving all the elements to make room for an insertion. 20:03:35 <shachaf> that depends hth 20:03:42 <oren> maybe something to do with memory locality? 20:03:43 <shachaf> Anyway they support sharing! 20:04:50 <mroman_> fnord 20:05:20 <mroman_> oren: arrays can totally fit neatly into cache lines 20:05:33 <mroman_> chasing pointers that point to various location of RAM isn't very nice 20:05:45 <mroman_> because then the CPU is constantly doing cache loads and cache writebacks 20:06:24 <mroman_> you can always have a data structure that chains arrays to gether 20:06:28 <mroman_> *together 20:06:34 <mroman_> Which means you don't have to realloc 20:06:51 <oren> yeah. that's what I suspect was happening. I just got a massive speed boost by using a big array (1MB) of enemies instead of a linked list. 20:07:07 <oren> this despite that I sort it every frame 20:08:31 <oren> (before that wasn't necessary, I put the enemy at the righ place according to its Z, but with the array, I just tack it to the end, and sort it) 20:09:20 <oren> which should be horribly inefficient, but apparently not as inefficient as a linked lis 20:11:41 <oren> so fuck it. vector<Enemy> 20:12:26 <oren> actually, IS vector always a continuous array? 20:12:32 <mroman_> sorting a linked list sucks anyway 20:12:49 <mroman_> std:vector? 20:12:52 <mroman_> C++? 20:12:53 <oren> yah 20:13:04 <mroman_> vector should be a growing array 20:13:33 <oren> I often write in a restricted 20:14:03 <oren> c++ dialect that only uses what I consider to be the non-broken parts of C++ 20:14:09 <Jafet> Yes, I do believe that quicksort is generally faster than insertion sort 20:14:55 <oren> no, I only need to sort it when an enemy changes z (only bosses) or appears 20:15:28 <mroman_> for the drawing order? 20:15:33 <oren> but I sort it every frame anyway because then I don't have to detect when it is necessary 20:15:36 <oren> yeah 20:16:08 <oren> what is quicksort's time complexity on an already sorted array? 20:16:23 <ais523> oren: depends on how you choose the pivot 20:16:32 <mroman_> O(log n) 20:16:36 <mroman_> but that depends on the pivot 20:16:39 <ais523> it's O(n log n) if you take the middle element, O(n^2) if you take the first element 20:17:07 <ais523> there's a guaranteed O(n log n) version of quicksort which takes the median element as the pivot; you can calculate the median in O(n) 20:17:18 <ais523> but nobody does it because the O(n) median calculation has a pretty slow constant factor 20:17:48 <mroman_> oh wait. I forgot an n there 20:18:13 <mroman_> oren: It's quicksorts worst case of O(n^2) why there are "better" algorithms available 20:19:17 <oren> if it gets slower later, I'll make a flag for changed Z 20:20:51 <oren> with the linked list, I had a "clever" function where you call it on the node that changed Z and it removes it and puts it in the right place 20:21:21 <ais523> mroman_: quicksort does have quite a good constant factor though 20:21:23 <Jafet> If you know which k items have changed places, you can re-sort the array in O(n log k) time 20:23:19 <ais523> if you know that the list is almost sorted already, you can sort it in O(nk) time, where k is the number of items added/moved/changed, even without knowing which items they are 20:23:31 <ais523> many sort algorithms nowadays have algorithms which naturally fall into that as a best case 20:23:39 <oren> Jafet: wow. log k? k is unlikely to be higher than 2 in this case 20:26:33 <oren> (it is a top-down shooter where you can also drop bombs on enemies below you) 20:27:18 <oren> enemies rarely move vertically, many enemies are ground troops or naval vessels 20:28:06 <Jafet> (Put those items into a heap, then pass the remaining items through the heap.) 20:28:11 <oren> bullets, on the other hand, move vertically a lot, but I just draw them aboce everything else because I'm lazy 20:29:01 <oren> OH. 20:29:08 <fizzie> Even many standard sorts in languages' libraries tend to be the kind that they're good for almost-sorted arrays. 20:29:54 <fizzie> I think TimSort falls into that bucket (no pun about bucketsort intended), and it's the default in at least Python and Java[*]. ([*] not entirely true) 20:30:12 <int-e> . o O ( the buggy one? ) 20:30:35 <Jafet> Actually if k is small, it can be done in O(n + k log n) just by binary search. 20:33:38 <int-e> "binary search" ... I thought one some sort of heap for this purpose... 20:33:46 <int-e> s/one some/one uses some/ 20:33:48 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 20:34:32 <Jafet> Not really, it's the step that merges lists of lengths k and n-k. 20:35:22 <int-e> ah sorry. I shouldn't try to deduce the problem from the given complexity 20:36:03 <int-e> (O(n + k log n) is also the complexity for finding the smallest k elements of an unsorted list) 20:37:17 <Jafet> Guess the Algorithm, an exciting new game show 20:37:34 <int-e> For the merging thing, you can also do O(n + k log k) by first sorting and then merging two sorted lists. 20:47:25 <Melvar> < ais523> there's a guaranteed O(n log n) version of quicksort which takes the median element as the pivot; you can calculate the median in O(n) – IIRC there’s a thing where one uses the median of only the first, middle, and last elements. 20:47:36 <ais523> Melvar: that's still O(n^2) worst case 20:47:45 <Jafet> Hmm, here's a fun one: O(2^(11.98 \sqrt k) k + n^3) 20:48:11 <ais523> that's a terrible asymptotic performance :-) 20:48:17 <Melvar> Yes, IIRC it’s just better for a few common cases than a fixed pivot. 20:48:17 <ais523> what is it doing? 20:48:50 <Taneb> Hmm, if the list is already sorted you can find the median quite quickly 20:49:58 <Jafet> (It's clear that it's for a planar version of a parameterized NP-complete problem, due to the sqrt(k) in the exponent, but the complexity doesn't tell you anything more) 20:55:10 <b_jonas> yes, there is such a variant, but it's really not worth because it's complicated to implement, needs a lot of extra memory, and probably slower than other sorts 20:55:58 <b_jonas> I for one these days recommend a well-implemented merge sort for most purposes, but I admit there's no one sort algorithm that's always the best 21:02:16 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:09:58 <zzo38> Linked lists are sometimes useful such as if you want to store them as nodes in a graph (or cons cells), but you could convert into a proper list when reading them in. But even SQL is only order by the ORDER BY so you still need some column to sort by, and this make it difficult to insert one in between unless you use a linked list (and then use a WITH command to convert into a proper list). 21:11:46 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, unless of course you implement a full balanced tree as a layer over sql, possibly in triggers 21:12:26 <b_jonas> zzo38: mind you, if you just want to traverse a single linked list, that's rather easy with a WITH RECURSIVE ... SELECT query, but the problem is, you can't easily nest those queries 21:12:49 <b_jonas> I think WITH RECURSIVE is allowed only at top level, not in a subquery or view, but let me check this 21:19:50 <Jafet> Oh, here's another good one: O(n α*(n)), where α*(n) is the iterated (!) inverse Ackermann function. 21:20:28 <ais523> Jafet: I assume the Ackermann function is involved in the algo somehow? 21:22:12 <Jafet> Usually, you invent a variation of the Ackermann function that fits the shape of the data structure. Although this is a different function, α grows so slowly that it doesn't matter which α you use, so you can just use the "standard" one. 21:22:26 <Taneb> I still would like to know how Kruskal's algorithm ends up O(n α(n)) 21:22:43 <Jafet> It uses the union-find data structure as a component, which is O(n α(n)) 21:22:57 <Taneb> Jafet, that doesn't help my thinking 21:23:11 <Taneb> Why is union find O(α(n))? 21:24:23 <Jafet> You mean as a philosophical question -- why is the optimal algorithm O(α(n))? I don't know. 21:25:07 <Melvar> Is there a standard function like many but with a limit as to how many? 21:25:26 <Taneb> Jafet, no, I don't know the proof 21:25:49 <Jafet> I've looked at the original proof by Tarjan, but it's very complicated 21:26:41 <b_jonas> ais523: no, ackermann isn't involved 21:26:59 <b_jonas> ais523: that's just what falls out somehow from an optimized incremental unification algorithm 21:27:11 <b_jonas> ais523: you can read the details in the Cormen-Leiserson-Rivest-Stein book 21:27:27 <b_jonas> the proof is complicated and probably irrelevant in practice 21:28:10 <b_jonas> chapter 21 21:28:18 <b_jonas> not in Knuth yet because it's volume 4 material 21:28:49 <Melvar> @hoogle (Alternative f) => Int -> f a -> f [a] 21:28:50 <Jafet> The basic idea is simple enough; these data structures are very flat, so their width can be bounded by a fast-growing recursive function 21:28:50 <lambdabot> Control.Monad replicateM :: Monad m => Int -> m a -> m [a] 21:28:50 <lambdabot> Test.QuickCheck.Gen vectorOf :: Int -> Gen a -> Gen [a] 21:28:50 <lambdabot> Test.QuickCheck vectorOf :: Int -> Gen a -> Gen [a] 21:29:18 <Jafet> Melvar: would fmap (take n) work? 21:30:05 <Melvar> Jafet: It would not. I want it for a parser, where it must consume no extra from the input stream so it can fail if there’s more. 21:30:30 <Melvar> It’s trivial to write myself, of course, but it seems like something that would exist. 21:31:25 <b_jonas> this is sort of well-known because the algorithm is easy to implement and easy to understand, though proving that time limit is complicated, proving a saner time limit is easy. 21:31:45 <Melvar> As in, “atMost n p <* notFollowedBy p”. 21:32:43 -!- hjulle has joined. 21:33:08 -!- toxolotl1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 21:33:23 <Jafet> Oh, you want it to fail if there are too many 21:34:52 <Jafet> (er, allow failing) 21:35:15 <Melvar> Yes. Allow failing. 21:35:29 <zzo38> b_jonas: I think at least in SQLite, WITH RECURSIVE is allowed in other places too; the only restriction is that statements inside of a trigger program are not allowed to start with the WITH keyword (but it is allowed in other parts of those statements). 21:35:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: the docs say WITH RECURSIVE isn't allowed in subqueries 21:36:01 <b_jonas> but maybe I'm reading it wrong 21:36:15 * Melvar just makes his own. 21:36:36 <Jafet> Parsec's combinators can be incomplete in unexpected ways; I've had to rewrite a combinator because the default had the wrong strictness behaviour 21:37:42 -!- boily has joined. 21:38:03 <zzo38> (For example, the data to insert can be specified with a WITH clause, and the FROM of a SELECT statement can have WITH in it, and so on) 21:38:25 <Melvar> Jafet: Well, this is potentially a generic Alternative thing, and also I’m working with parsers, not parsec specifically. 21:40:04 <zzo38> WITH RECURSIVE is allowed in scalar subqueries, FROM clauses, views, etc. (I have tested this.) 21:40:40 <zzo38> (Although in SQLite, the RECURSIVE keyword is optional after the WITH keyword and has no effect.) 21:44:11 <b_jonas> zzo38: hmm, let me see again what the docs say 21:44:37 <zzo38> The documentation for SQLite says: "The WITH clause must appear at the beginning of a top-level SELECT statement or at the beginning of a subquery. The WITH clause cannot be prepended to the second or subsequent SELECT statement of a compound select." That is, it cannot be included directly after a UNION, UNION ALL, INTERSECT, or EXCEPT. 21:44:47 <zzo38> It is allowed in subqueries. 21:44:55 <b_jonas> oh right, I misread 21:45:25 <b_jonas> yes, that 21:45:34 <b_jonas> and http://sqlite.org/lang_select.html also says that 21:45:38 <zzo38> It also says "The WITH clause cannot be used within a CREATE TRIGGER." which is only partially true. 21:46:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: http://sqlite.org/lang_select.html tells that differently 21:46:16 <b_jonas> 'A VALUES clause can be the first element in a compound SELECT that uses a WITH clause, but a simple SELECT that consists of just a VALUES clause cannot be preceded by a WITH clause.; 21:46:20 <b_jonas> ' 21:47:23 <b_jonas> ok, in that case you can traverse a linked list or even tree in a subquery or view 21:51:22 <zzo38> There doesn't seem to be much reason to precede a simple SELECT that consists of just a VALUES clause by a WITH clause anyways. Nevertheless, it isn't true (in SQLite); I have tried it and it accepts it anyways. 21:53:16 <b_jonas> zzo38: maybe that changed when they improved VALUES 21:54:20 <b_jonas> does anyone use unreferenced labels in C or C++ as sort of documentation, so you can refer to those labels from comment or other text? I've done that in perl, but not (yet) in C or C++. 21:54:25 <b_jonas> I should do it. 21:54:59 <b_jonas> though apparently in some settings gcc warns about such labels 21:55:37 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:56:58 <zzo38> I have not done it 21:57:37 <zzo38> For some sort of documentation I can just use a comment 22:00:55 <b_jonas> sure, you can certainly use comments too 22:02:50 <zzo38> If you are using CWEB or something like that, then it might help a bit more since then they will be indexed and the cross-references (including those in comments) will also be indexed. (However, it also allow you to just add index entries by yourself too) 22:04:54 <b_jonas> lol, I'm reading my own old bug ticket entries a 22:05:44 <b_jonas> I wrote "Fixed in patch <patchnumber>. Closing this ticket." then in the next message, "I said, closing this ticket. Close it already, rt." 22:05:50 <b_jonas> then someone else closed it 22:27:33 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 22:27:51 <Lyka> hey all 22:28:39 <boily> Hellyka! 22:30:56 <Lyka> update on 4FK: i think Revision 0006e's Core Set is pretty close to finished 22:31:36 <Lyka> aka v0.1-alpha0006e 22:32:49 <Lyka> though, as it has to work with Cuddlefish's TFT and Touch libraries... 22:33:26 <Lyka> i home the extension coding i wrote is sufficient 22:33:56 <Lyka> *hope 22:35:18 -!- atrapado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:37:08 <Lyka> touch is easy, except for the little part about it being a QVGA screen, and 320 is bigger than 256 22:44:37 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:47:22 -!- variable has joined. 22:58:22 <Sgeo> So, the intended viewer for CYbertown VRML files has an export option, and suddenly other things can read the (exported) files a LOT better 23:01:45 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 23:07:19 -!- hilquias has joined. 23:23:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:34:18 <oerjan> `? codensity 23:34:19 <HackEgo> codensity is just mass per volume with all the arrows reversed. 23:34:35 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/c/C/' wisdom/codensity 23:34:37 <HackEgo> No output. 23:36:23 <oerjan> `? whom 23:36:24 <HackEgo> whom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:36:44 <oerjan> `le/rn whom/See: who 23:36:46 <HackEgo> Learned «whom» 23:36:48 <oerjan> `? who 23:36:49 <HackEgo> who? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:37:13 <oerjan> `learn Who cares about ancient cases anyway? 23:37:15 <HackEgo> Learned 'who': Who cares about ancient cases anyway? 23:38:46 <oerjan> `? infinitive 23:38:47 <HackEgo> infinitive? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:39:18 <zzo38> `? recursive 23:39:18 <HackEgo> recursive? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:39:20 <oerjan> `learn Infinitives are atomic verbs. They were first split in the 1940s, and the world hasn't looked back since. 23:39:22 <HackEgo> Learned 'infinitive': Infinitives are atomic verbs. They were first split in the 1940s, and the world hasn't looked back since. 23:39:51 <oerjan> `le/rn recursive/See: recursion 23:39:52 <HackEgo> Learned «recursive» 23:40:01 <zzo38> `? recursion 23:40:03 <HackEgo> You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW 23:41:48 <oerjan> bohily. i seem to have been making a lot of work for you lately. 23:42:19 <boily> yeah. my shameful self is cumulating dishonorable lateness. 23:42:42 <oerjan> *GASP* 23:42:46 <boily> I think I'm just going to temporarily excise the greek parts and add in everything else. 23:43:15 <oerjan> wait are the greek parts preventing you from adding the rest 23:44:40 <boily> compilation problems last time I checked. 23:44:54 * boily verifies if it still refuses to generate... 23:45:09 <boily> yeah. 23:45:18 <boily> oh well. time for an overdue update! 23:45:35 <boily> `hg 23:45:36 <HackEgo> Mercurial Distributed SCM \ \ basic commands: \ \ add add the specified files on the next commit \ annotate show changeset information by line for each file \ clone make a copy of an existing repository \ commit commit the specified files or all outstanding changes \ diff diff repository (or selected files) \ ex 23:45:47 <boily> what was the wisdomurl again... 23:46:01 <boily> `repo 23:46:01 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: repo: not found 23:46:05 <boily> `url 23:46:06 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 23:46:08 <boily> ah! 23:46:45 <Lyka> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98841263/joey20050224016an.jpg <--- My sister growing up 23:47:57 * boily isn't surprised to see one more non-human in the chännel 23:48:14 * boily lightly mapoles Lyka for xenobiological research purposes 23:48:22 * oerjan rerecords Lyka's species 23:48:40 <Lyka> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98841263/Penguin.jpg 23:48:46 <Lyka> my friends 23:49:57 <oerjan> i am having a bit difficulty separating friends and furniture, there 23:50:50 <boily> Lyka: that looks like my chair. 23:51:14 <boily> (and the floor is strangely similar.) 23:53:25 <Lyka> sitting on the chair and behind the chair 23:54:32 <Lyka> you see who is behind the chair, right? 23:56:08 <boily> 'tis you. 23:56:16 <zzo38> `? Plain TeX 23:56:17 <HackEgo> Plain TeX? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:56:21 <zzo38> You didn't add that one yet 23:57:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Imaginer1]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43171&oldid=43162 * 75.167.89.115 * (-1) This is Imaginer1 logged out for some reason and wondering why I wrote '2^5' instead of '32' there. 2015-06-07: 00:00:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Bitoven]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43172 * Imaginer1 * (+126) Created page with "This page hasn't been categorized yet and supposedly moderators are supposed to be the ones in charge of this. Any help, guys?" 00:00:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43173&oldid=43172 * Imaginer1 * (+25) 00:00:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43174&oldid=43173 * Imaginer1 * (+11) 00:00:59 -!- Nihilumbra has joined. 00:01:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43175&oldid=43174 * Imaginer1 * (+0) 00:02:04 * Nihilumbra vomits 00:03:58 <boily> Nihellombra! 00:04:06 <boily> why are you codigesting so? 00:04:25 <Nihilumbra> I had some bad sushi 00:04:55 <oerjan> well what do you expect when you don't cook your food properly duh 00:04:55 <boily> bleh :( 00:05:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43176&oldid=43169 * Imaginer1 * (+0) Made a minor correction 00:05:29 <Lyka> i only eat veggie sushi 00:05:47 * oerjan afahk has never had proper sushi. 00:06:03 <zzo38> I prefer the sushi without the stuff inside, so, it is empty sushi 00:06:09 <Lyka> i mean, when i eat sushi, it is only veggie 00:06:29 <Lyka> sweet potato roll is my fave 00:06:44 * oerjan leaves this discussion to shachaf 00:06:55 <Lyka> ? 00:06:58 <Nihilumbra> Oh lyka what was that octopus thing you were going to show 00:07:12 <Lyka> huh? 00:07:14 <Nihilumbra> I left in a hurry the other month 00:07:35 <boily> I like sashimi. surf clam and oil fish are some readily available favourites. 00:08:13 <Nihilumbra> Fried tampura is good 00:08:34 <Lyka> oh, i gave a certain arduino the name "octopus" when i had 8 wwires sticking out 00:09:23 <Lyka> 4FK Octopus referres to it running on that device 00:10:09 <Nihilumbra> mm 00:10:14 <Nihilumbra> Ok 00:10:31 <boily> fried tempura? as in, you take some tempura, cover it in tempura batter, and fry it? 00:10:47 <Nihilumbra> Macho man randy savage killed Jesus and stopped the rapture 00:10:52 <Nihilumbra> Yeah 00:10:54 <boily> oerjan: do you remember how to type in a → in LaTeX? 00:11:18 <Nihilumbra> Is that a condom company, Boily 00:11:31 <Lyka> the reference for 4FK-CORE is an arduino leonardo + an ethernet/sd shield (ethernet support isn't part of core) 00:12:01 <Lyka> Called that calamari cause i caled the other one octopus 00:12:06 <Nihilumbra> Sounds cool 00:12:07 <boily> Nihilumbra: no, it's typesetting software. some people here like to give me a headache with it. 00:12:28 <ais523> boily: $\rightarrow$ 00:12:35 <boily> . o O ( oh yeah baby, align that float... such a fine \caption you have there... ) 00:12:38 <zzo38> Plain TeX is a better typesetting software 00:12:41 <boily> `thanks ais523 00:12:42 <HackEgo> Thanks, ais523. Thais523. 00:12:43 <zzo38> In my opinion 00:12:49 <ais523> I used that one a lot in my thesis 00:13:02 <ais523> (not sure if there's a textmode version but mathmode is what I needed anyway, and it's not like it's hard to toggle) 00:13:05 <Nihilumbra> Hmm 00:13:39 <boily> ais523: meanwhile, I just discovered the sudden benefits of YCM in vim. 00:13:53 <boily> holy glorious mother of fungot. it autocompletes everything. 00:13:53 <fungot> boily: i also believe that it leads to nothing but mistakes are only costly with the emacs equivalent of word macros. awk scripts are becoming gawk scripts. etc etc etc 00:14:16 <Nihilumbra> something that auto completes?? everything??? 00:14:19 <Nihilumbra> What 00:14:36 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 00:14:44 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined. 00:15:11 <boily> Nihilumbra: it aucocompletes. smartly. and not only prefixes; as long as the substring exists, it autocompletes. 00:15:16 <boily> do you use vim? 00:15:24 <Lyka> Cuddlefish is the arduino mega + tft touch lcd 00:15:43 <Nihilumbra> nah 00:15:48 <Nihilumbra> but I should 00:17:49 <boily> mroman_: are you the one who added that chuchichäschtli, or was it int-e? 00:19:21 <oerjan> it sounds very swiss 00:19:37 <oerjan> so mroman_ is the obvious suspect 00:19:45 <oerjan> `? chuchichäschtli 00:19:46 <HackEgo> chuchichäschtli is spoken as ˈχʊχːiˌχæʃːtli 00:20:40 <oerjan> hm clearly deficient 00:21:32 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/as \(.*\)/as [\1]/' wisdom/chuchichäschtli 00:21:34 <HackEgo> No output. 00:21:37 <oerjan> `? chuchichäschtli 00:21:39 <HackEgo> chuchichäschtli is spoken as [ˈχʊχːiˌχæʃːtli] 00:21:46 <oerjan> wow it worked 00:24:55 <Nihilumbra> wtf 00:25:00 <Nihilumbra> How is that spoken 00:26:41 <boily> as written. 00:27:04 <boily> oerjan: imported TIPA, read the docs, it worked. on to the next missing entry! 00:32:33 <oerjan> <Taneb> I think I can make poutine in York relatively easily <-- isn't that cheese stuff sort of rare outside canada, or something? 00:32:56 <nys> cheese curds? 00:33:02 <oerjan> yeah 00:34:18 <oerjan> "Cheese curds in cuisine, or cooking, are the solid parts of soured milk either eaten alone or used in various regional dishes, mostly in eastern Canada and the northeastern and midwestern United States." 00:34:46 <boily> http://www.fromagesbergeron.com/fromages/7/brins-de-gouda/ ← best curds out there hth 00:39:28 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, he's in england, i'm sure you can buy any dairy product known to man with a moderate amount of effort 00:40:31 <oerjan> hm when you put it like that... 00:41:31 <boily> strange. I expected something about zzo38 in the gopher entry... 00:41:42 <zzo38> Then add another sentence if you want to 00:41:46 <zzo38> `? gopher 00:41:47 <HackEgo> Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. 00:41:58 <zzo38> There look like only one sentence currently 00:43:36 <boily> now, who is the [explétif] that added haiku. 00:43:45 <boily> (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAURGH) 00:43:45 <oerjan> `? haiku 00:43:47 <HackEgo> ​🀨や⛄ 00:43:47 <ais523> boily: when you censor yourself, you do so in French? 00:44:03 <boily> ais523: it flows more naturally hth 00:44:16 <oerjan> `unidecode 🀨や⛄ 00:44:17 <HackEgo> ​[U+1F028 MAHJONG TILE AUTUMN] [U+3084 HIRAGANA LETTER YA] [U+26C4 SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW] 00:44:26 <Nihilumbra> ?? 00:44:37 <Nihilumbra> So much textual yelling 00:44:50 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: it's a haiku made out of unicode character names 00:44:57 <ais523> huh, that's the first astral planes character that I've seen render correctly in this client 00:44:58 <Nihilumbra> I see 00:45:10 <boily> I only see the first two in this one client here. 00:45:19 <oerjan> i'm with boily 00:45:27 <ais523> what's the significance of the hiragana letter ya? 00:45:49 <oerjan> ais523: it has 7 syllables hth 00:45:50 <ais523> I can see trying to make a snowman during autumn, but having to substitute something else for the snow because there isn't any snow 00:45:54 <ais523> something quite profound there 00:46:04 -!- staffehn_ has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 00:46:05 <ais523> whereas, the hiragana letter seems to have been thrown in just for syllable count 00:46:13 <boily> it's a ya. やとヤと色々の文字がある。 00:46:23 -!- staffehn has joined. 00:47:01 -!- Sprocklem_ has changed nick to Sprocklem. 00:47:07 <oerjan> "There is a variety of characters and Yatoya." 00:47:15 <ais523> boily: I'm going to assume that the Japanese text there is Japanese for "hth" 00:47:25 <boily> ha ha ha :D 00:47:55 <boily> oerjan: I should've quoted the ya and the other ya hth 00:48:39 * oerjan keeps being slightly annoyed that google's front page app menu pushes g. translate just off the first page so you have to click an extra time to get to it 00:49:23 <oerjan> boily: that does not help me translate it 00:50:03 <oerjan> `unidecode やとヤ 00:50:04 <HackEgo> ​[U+3084 HIRAGANA LETTER YA] [U+3068 HIRAGANA LETTER TO] [U+30E4 KATAKANA LETTER YA] 00:51:11 <ais523> oerjan: wait, people use Google Translate without typing in the URL directly (or using a browser/feature extension)? 00:51:42 <ais523> also, you can probably get to Google Translate from the front page of Google the same way you can get anywhere else from the front page of Google 00:52:02 <oren> I usually use wiktionary 00:52:26 <oerjan> ais523: hm when you put it like that typing the url and autocompleting might be faster 00:52:37 <oerjan> oren: wiktionary for whole sentences? 00:52:46 <oren> r my actual paper dictionary (because it has radical-stroke lookup which wiktionary hasn't) 00:52:58 <ais523> does the "I'm feeling lucky" button still exist? 00:53:22 <boily> there. I contourné the problem by composing a haiku. 00:53:22 <oren> oerjan: I know japanese grammar, but often I don't know words hh 00:53:26 <oerjan> oren: wiktionary sort of requires you to have an idea of how the rest of the language works tdnh 00:53:39 <boily> (btw, what's "contourner" in English? I'm drawing a blank here.) 00:53:39 <oerjan> `? haiku 00:53:40 <HackEgo> ​🀨や⛄ 00:53:51 <oerjan> boily: bypass? 00:53:57 <oerjan> circumvent? 00:54:05 <Lyka> gtg 00:54:20 <Lyka> food ready 00:54:21 <boily> bypass. thanks. 00:54:21 <oerjan> "get around" 00:54:29 * oerjan remembered he had gt open 00:54:30 <boily> Lyka: いただきます！ 00:54:48 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 00:55:08 <zzo38> "Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. And also zzo38." Is that a better way? Probably not, the second sentence isn't very good. 00:55:24 <ais523> oh dear 00:55:26 <oren> 秋や雪だるま autumn and snowman, and possibly something else. 00:55:32 <oerjan> ais523: back when the GT link actually showed up directly on the google frontpage, that was clearly the easiest way (since i always have the frontpage open) 00:55:34 <ais523> that sentence got me trying to imagine what the successor of zzo38 would be like 00:55:45 <oerjan> but now i'm not sure 00:55:52 <ais523> presumably that's not the way it was meant to be parsed 00:56:11 <oerjan> ais523: but you have to admit it's very zzo38 00:56:25 * Nihilumbra slurping noises 00:56:28 <zzo38> ais523: I know it isn't how it meant to be parsed that's why I said it isn't very good 00:56:54 <ais523> "Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. But zzo38 thought of it first." 00:56:59 <oren> And also zzo38's? 00:57:19 <shachaf> oerjan: i've heard that norwegian sushi is among the best hth 00:57:40 <ais523> oren: that would disambiguate, yes 00:57:59 <zzo38> That is better 00:58:12 <oerjan> <ais523> does the "I'm feeling lucky" button still exist? <-- yes 00:59:57 <Nihilumbra> tvilling 01:01:04 <oerjan> shachaf: i wouldn't know hth 01:01:13 <oerjan> (although we have all that salmon) 01:01:27 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: what's with the norwegian 01:02:08 <Nihilumbra> its gemini if it were a word 01:02:13 <boily> what's a tvilling? 01:02:29 <Nihilumbra> I accurately cannot say 01:02:32 <zzo38> `learn Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. But zzo38 thought of it first. 01:02:33 <oren> is it a norwegian gerund? 01:02:34 <HackEgo> Learned 'gopher': Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. But zzo38 thought of it first. 01:03:02 <zzo38> At least this is better than how it was before. (Whether or not it is even more better than that, I don't know.) 01:03:30 <zzo38> `? All The Tropes 01:03:31 <HackEgo> A card game where you win if you collect *all* of the tropes. 01:04:05 <Nihilumbra> ?tvilling 01:04:06 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list 01:04:21 <Nihilumbra> sorry wasnt trying to do that 01:05:40 <oerjan> boily: it's a twin hth 01:06:08 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: also gemini is tvillingene if you mean the astrological sign 01:06:15 <oerjan> (it's plural definite) 01:06:18 <oren> 0O1lI2Z6G8B 01:06:23 <Nihilumbra> thanks 01:06:42 * boily disambiguately mapoles oren 01:06:50 <Nihilumbra> Is the t silent or the V 01:06:56 <oren> trying out a font 01:07:45 <oren> Nanum Gothic Coding is a good font 01:07:49 <zzo38> Do you think either one must be silenced? 01:08:01 <zzo38> It doesn't look to me? 01:08:04 <oerjan> <oren> is it a norwegian gerund? <-- i'm not sure norwegian has gerunds, really, we tend to use the infinitive where english uses it. although we do have a cognate verbal noun used for word building, like in german. 01:08:35 <zzo38> `? how to stand on the ceiling 01:08:36 <HackEgo> how to stand on the ceiling? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:09:15 <ais523> `? isn't really a general question-answering tool 01:09:16 <HackEgo> isn't really a general question-answering tool? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:09:20 <oren> use suction cups on your feet 01:09:33 <ais523> nah, the trick is to be on top of the ceiling 01:09:37 <ais523> so you can stand on it the normal way 01:09:58 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: neither the t nor the v is silent 01:10:24 -!- AndChat248436 has joined. 01:10:37 <oerjan> in fact tvillingene doesn't really have any silent letters, although ll is a single lengthened sound and ng is a single velar nasal 01:11:01 -!- AndChat248436 has quit (Client Quit). 01:11:08 <oerjan> (basically the same sounds as usually in english) 01:11:13 <Nihilumbra> I'm willing to learn norwegion 01:11:30 <oerjan> s/basically/more or less/ 01:11:41 <oerjan> i'm sure the ll is not entirely identical 01:11:51 <oren> interesting... I don't actually find i hard to pronounce a v after a t 01:13:05 <Nihilumbra> I'm learning how to use chopstick atm 01:13:21 <Nihilumbra> and im starting to think I have atrophy in my hands 01:13:24 <boily> Nihilumbra: beware. you're treading on dangerous paths here. next thing you know, you'll be eating lutefisk. 01:13:39 <Nihilumbra> Lol 01:13:53 <Nihilumbra> I've had that tho 01:13:58 <oren> Eh, it's not hard at all. try with potato chips first 01:14:02 <Nihilumbra> its strange 01:14:08 <boily> are you using three or four fingers? 01:14:18 <Nihilumbra> how do you hold them though 01:14:35 <zzo38> Or five fingers? 01:14:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43177&oldid=43175 * Ais523 * (+580) explain the categories rule 01:14:48 <zzo38> But using your feet would be cheating. 01:15:23 <oren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLMZF8Ufhg 01:16:07 <zzo38> `? Amiga 01:16:08 <HackEgo> Amiga? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:16:31 <ais523> oerjan: are you talking about the english ll or the welsh ll? they're entirely different sounds 01:16:41 <ais523> the welsh one can be sort-of approximated as "chl" but not really 01:16:48 <Nihilumbra> my grandfather is Japanese and he's coming over with his family because my sister is having a wedding so i don't want to look dumb 01:16:54 <zzo38> I don't know very good Welsh speaking 01:17:08 <Nihilumbra> I can pronounce tvill pretty well 01:18:58 <boily> my grip looks more like http://www.tastyislandhawaii.com/images/chopsticks_hold_ind5.jpg 01:19:07 <boily> (left handed and all.) 01:20:09 <Nihilumbra> This is so much 01:20:21 <Nihilumbra> I can't hold sticks properly 01:20:31 <Nihilumbra> what am I doing with my life 01:20:43 <oren> hold on I'll take a picture 01:21:23 <FireFly> ais523: the norwegian ll would be the same as the english ll as far as I know 01:21:45 <ais523> so basically just an "l" that removes the remote control ability of vowels 01:21:46 <FireFly> i.e. just a lengthened l sound 01:22:11 <Nihilumbra> yeah 01:22:51 <FireFly> I didn't realise until now, reading the scrollback, that "tv" could be uncommon/unusual 01:23:07 <oerjan> ais523: i am certainly not talking about actual welsh celtic language. however there _is_ a difference, but english varies a lot in this. 01:23:28 <boily> `quote oren 01:23:29 <HackEgo> 1227) <oren> when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? <vanila> yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? <oren> apparently not santa claus <zzo38> Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1228) <{\[oren]|}> ｚｚｏ３８：ｉｔ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｃａｕｓｅ　ｐｒｏｂｌｅｍｓ　ｂｙ 01:23:33 <ais523> "tv" is fine in English if they're in two separate sulllables :P 01:23:36 <ais523> *syllables 01:23:38 <boily> oh fungot. there are quotes. 01:23:42 <ais523> both in the same syllable is very unusual 01:23:56 <ais523> fungot's not babbling? or has boily hit the babble limit? 01:24:07 <ais523> ^ul (:^):^ 01:24:11 <boily> oren: you'll be in the PDF soon! hurrah! hurray! 01:24:12 <FireFly> fungot: are you alive? 01:24:13 <Nihilumbra> fungot wilk pick up 01:24:18 <oerjan> basically, the ll in tvillingene is not velarized (i was going to say norwegian l never is, but i'm not sure after back vowels) 01:24:20 <Nihilumbra> and it will be awful 01:24:25 * boily wants his fungot 01:24:45 <Nihilumbra> how do you pronounce Ingene though 01:24:51 <oerjan> while l tends to be velarized in american english, and _sometimes_ in RP, and otherwise varies all over the place. 01:25:01 <coppro> boily: then host it 01:25:04 <coppro> and it will be yours 01:25:30 <oerjan> if you're from wales, your _english_ ll might very well be close to the norwegian one. 01:25:46 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology#Sonorants 01:26:20 <fungot> ais523: does ror use some kind of supercoder 01:26:20 <fungot> ...out of time! 01:26:20 <fungot> FireFly: but the people who get annoyed) l) is different from what i've seen in my 30 years on it 01:26:20 <fungot> Nihilumbra: like in a play... hmm... fnord looks neato. what else is an awesome idea. 01:26:20 <fungot> boily: _i_ am not complaining) ' concurrency.' 01:26:30 <oerjan> if i'm reading the RP entry correctly, it would also be velarized in -illi- 01:26:31 <ais523> oh, it's just beings low 01:26:47 <ais523> what does "velarized" mean? 01:27:07 <oren> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxcXE11iO1QiT2xURDVxSjNIeGtDYlZLNzFYYVBoVEowTThN/view?usp=sharing 01:27:26 <oren> That is me holding an sd card up using two pencils 01:28:45 <oerjan> `learn Amiga is spanish for a female friend. 01:28:48 <HackEgo> Learned 'amiga': Amiga is spanish for a female friend. 01:28:56 <oerjan> `learn Amiga is Spanish for a female friend. 01:28:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'amiga': Amiga is Spanish for a female friend. 01:29:41 <FireFly> I couldn't find an example of no:tvillingene, but here's sv:tvillingarna: http://www.forvo.com/word/tvillingarna/#sv (apparently by a swiss person, but it sounds correct to me) 01:30:24 <Nihilumbra> Are you 21 Oren 01:30:42 <boily> Nihilumbra: there are only two orens. oren and orin. hth. 01:30:59 <oren> Yup 01:31:00 <FireFly> oren: chopcils? 01:31:06 <oren> er, no, 22 now 01:31:18 <oerjan> <FireFly> ais523: the norwegian ll would be the same as the english ll as far as I know <-- i can _clearly_ hear the difference between the ll in no:tvilling and the ll in en:sillier the way i pronounce them, of course i'm not an authority on the latter. 01:31:35 <Nihilumbra> I can tell from muscle structure most of the time but there was a lot of light 01:31:42 <ais523> huh, my brain's parser is a little broken 01:31:48 <ais523> I see a line that pings me and has a ← in 01:31:51 <ais523> and assume I'm being quoted 01:32:43 <boily> ↑ you are ais523. htp. 01:32:51 <boily> `? piet 01:32:53 <HackEgo> ​ \ Piet is a really colorful programming language. 01:32:58 <boily> ... 01:33:20 <ais523> `? INTERCAL 01:33:21 <HackEgo> INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market. 01:33:52 <Nihilumbra> `? BASIC 01:33:53 <HackEgo> BASIC? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:33:56 <Nihilumbra> mm 01:34:37 <FireFly> oerjan: what about en:full? 01:35:52 <Nihilumbra> I'm just accidentally spinning food around with these sticks 01:36:08 <FireFly> The ll in en:full sounds similar to the one in sv:tvillingarna when I pronounce them, but I certainly don't trust my english pronounciation to follow either RP or US pronounciation 01:36:16 <oerjan> <Nihilumbra> how do you pronounce Ingene though <-- [iŋenə] i think 01:36:25 <boily> `? pineapple 01:36:26 <HackEgo> Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, therefore making it a class 6 vegetable. 01:36:39 <Nihilumbra> K 01:36:47 <Nihilumbra> that n has a booger 01:37:18 <Nihilumbra> Also that n doesn't exist in Irish linguistics so idk what you are trying for 01:38:15 <oerjan> <ais523> what does "velarized" mean? <-- it's somewhat mysterious to me too, apparently there's some lifting of the back of the tongue added to some consonants. but "l" is the only one i can distinguish sort of reliably. 01:38:34 <Nihilumbra> I can do that 01:38:40 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velarization 01:38:42 <Nihilumbra> it sounds strange 01:38:51 <ais523> oerjan: hmm, I can pronounce two different audibly consonants by moving my tongue like that, but one of them isn't really an l 01:40:47 <FireFly> Nihilumbra: do you mean ŋ? that's the "ng" in e.g. "thing" 01:40:59 <Nihilumbra> oh 01:41:13 <Nihilumbra> I can say that then 01:41:31 <Nihilumbra> I was confused as to what oerjan was saying 01:41:38 <oerjan> FireFly: i _think_ swedish and norwegian l are both "clear" (i.e. nonvelarized) in general. it sounded clear on that link you gave, anyway. 01:42:23 <FireFly> Okay 01:43:01 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:43:07 <FireFly> I don't know if we have velarized l at all 01:43:46 <FireFly> Oh, apparently the ll in sv:allt according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_lateral_approximant#Dental_or_denti-alveolar_2 01:44:09 <FireFly> Wait, wrong table 01:44:15 <FireFly> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_lateral_approximant#Dental_or_denti-alveolar 01:45:06 <FireFly> I can't tell if I pronounce that differently or not 01:45:21 <oerjan> FireFly: i pronounce en:full velarized too. i think i basically always do that to english l. 01:45:33 <oerjan> FireFly: iow, like an american afaiu 01:46:56 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: ŋ is the same sound as english writes ng (but _not_ with the g pronounced like in "finger") 01:48:36 <Nihilumbra> what's the ŋ sound like 01:48:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43178&oldid=43176 * 75.167.89.115 * (+114) added some categories (Imaginer1) 01:50:11 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: like ng in english "sing" 01:50:36 <Nihilumbra> fing and sing are the same sound oerjan 01:51:00 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: it's common for "finger" to have the g pronounced as well in english 01:51:12 <oerjan> but not in "singer" i _think_ 01:51:20 <Nihilumbra> it is 01:51:42 <oerjan> i'm not very sure about this. 01:52:08 <Nihilumbra> there's isn't an English word that I know of that has ing in it that doesn't have the g clearly pronounced 01:52:14 <oerjan> but there should be _no_ hard g sound in ng when pronounced in norwegian. 01:53:00 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: i am skeptical, but there are all kinds of english dialect. note that when i say hard g i _don't_ just mean that n is different from ng 01:53:30 <oerjan> i mean that there are essentially two part sounds to -ng- in finger 01:53:42 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 01:54:27 <Nihilumbra> I pronounce finger as staya with me here, F- ee-N - gurr 01:54:30 <oerjan> maybe there's always a bit of it left in english 01:54:51 <Nihilumbra> I also pronounce all g's as a hard g 01:54:55 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: well yes, that's what i expect. it's _other_ words than finger i'm wondering about. 01:55:05 <oerjan> e.g. just "sing", with nothing after it. 01:55:13 <Nihilumbra> see n g a 01:55:48 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: um if you have an a there, i think you have a _weird_ dialect. 01:56:08 <Nihilumbra> sing 01:56:10 <Nihilumbra> ?? 01:56:15 * oerjan wishes some other native english speaker would chime in here 01:56:24 <Nihilumbra> the I is more of a hum too 01:56:46 <FireFly> So a schwa maybe 01:56:59 <FireFly> What dialect is this? 01:57:01 <oerjan> FireFly: you're not native english speaker tdnh 01:57:19 <FireFly> That is correct, also my english isn't all that good (especially not the pronounciation) 01:57:20 <oerjan> i think i'm at the point where i won't believe the judgement of anyone who isn't. 01:57:39 <FireFly> Probably wise 01:57:51 <Nihilumbra> its for me S ee n g "a" and the a is a fast syllable so its only audible in words that end with ing 01:57:59 <Nihilumbra> like see n guh 01:58:58 <oerjan> OKAY 01:59:34 <Nihilumbra> After a person says a word and hear the correct pronounciation I can say it back with no error 01:59:45 <Nihilumbra> I hear* 02:00:43 <Nihilumbra> ??? I'm confused no one else pronounces it like that? 02:01:18 <FireFly> Where do you live, if you don't mind? 02:02:08 <Nihilumbra> Washington state but I was born and raised in pallasgreen, Limerick and leanred English there 02:02:13 <Nihilumbra> learned* 02:02:41 <FireFly> Hm, well I dunno 02:04:31 <boily> ♪ DING ♪ new PDF version! 02:04:54 <Nihilumbra> ok 02:09:08 <Nihilumbra> Where's Elliott 02:09:14 <Nihilumbra> did He die 02:10:03 <boily> @ask elliott where are you? did you die? 02:10:03 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 02:10:41 <boily> `pastequotes 02:10:43 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.6655 02:11:57 <boily> too much of a hassle now. will do quotes later. 02:34:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SOLUBLE CHICKEN). 02:47:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:48:47 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 03:39:46 -!- Wright_ has joined. 03:39:46 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:42:41 <oerjan> `? esoteric 03:42:41 <HackEgo> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net. 03:43:11 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/on .*/on EFnet or DALnet./' wisdom/esoteric 03:43:12 <HackEgo> No output. 03:43:16 <oerjan> `? esoteric 03:43:18 <HackEgo> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet. 03:43:38 <oerjan> `welcome 03:43:38 <Nihilumbra> lol what are you up to oerjan 03:43:39 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 03:44:03 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: we found out there was an #esoteric on EFnet, which may be more alive than the DALnet one. 03:44:28 <oerjan> so i'm updating the advice. 03:44:36 <Nihilumbra> ah 03:44:46 <Nihilumbra> what's the port for efnet 03:45:23 <oerjan> my vague understanding is that EFnet doesn't have a global way of accessing it, you need to look up their server list e.g. on the web. 03:46:07 <oerjan> i might be confused about it, though. 03:46:16 * oerjan isn't on EFnet himself. 03:47:12 <pikhq> Um, irc.efnet.org works. 03:48:18 <Nihilumbra> that's the adress 03:48:19 <oerjan> i'm probably confused then, or outdated. 03:48:27 <Nihilumbra> whats the port 03:48:35 <FireFly> I'd guess 6667? 03:48:50 <Nihilumbra> ssl? 03:49:06 <FireFly> I don't know if they do SSL, probably not 03:49:19 <FireFly> You're better off just looking it up instead 03:49:24 <oerjan> i _still_ think looking it up is... right 03:50:39 <Nihilumbra> only 10 ppl 03:51:02 <FireFly> Presumably about 10 more than the DALnet channel 03:53:07 <pikhq> Only some of their servers do SSL. 03:53:57 <pikhq> Not that it hurts as much for them as it would for others -- no nickserv means no logins. 03:54:13 * Nihilumbra pats pikhq 03:54:22 <Nihilumbra> what do you mean no nickserv 03:54:32 <pikhq> EFnet does not do services. 03:54:39 <Nihilumbra> pffft 03:54:43 <pikhq> There is no nickserv. There is no chanserv. 03:55:06 <Nihilumbra> seems to be 03:55:23 <Nihilumbra> nvm 03:55:50 <zzo38> Did you add the wisdom file for "Plain TeX" yet? 03:56:16 <oerjan> `le/rn plain tex/Plain TeX is plain annoying. 03:56:18 <HackEgo> Learned «plain tex» 03:56:26 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 03:56:28 <oerjan> THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU NAG 03:57:01 <zzo38> `le/rn plain tex/Plain TeX is plain annoying. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU NAG 03:57:03 <HackEgo> Learned «plain tex» 03:57:54 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/'plain tex' 03:57:57 <HackEgo> No output. 03:58:52 <zzo38> `? PDF 03:58:53 <HackEgo> PDF? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:00:40 <zzo38> `? PDF 04:00:41 <HackEgo> PDF? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:00:51 <zzo38> Oops sorry I shouldn't repeat myself 04:01:02 <oerjan> `learn PDF stands for Pretty Depressing Format. 04:01:05 <HackEgo> Learned 'pdf': PDF stands for Pretty Depressing Format. 04:01:24 <oerjan> you may note a common thread here. 04:01:24 <zzo38> Sometimes I push "REPEAT" by mistake 04:01:50 <zzo38> `? oerjan 04:01:51 <HackEgo> Your famous evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. 04:01:57 <oerjan> you have a REPEAT key that your irc client understands? 04:02:02 <zzo38> Yes 04:02:06 <oerjan> fancy 04:08:56 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 04:18:46 <FireFly> Hm, if one had a re-programmable keyboard, one could add a REPEAT key that repeats everything up until the last enter 04:19:23 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 04:19:26 <Lyka> sir robin ran away, oh brae sir robin... 04:19:32 <Lyka> when danger reared its ugly head he tucked his tail and turned and ran, oh brave brave sir robin 04:20:01 <zzo38> I don't have a re-programmable keyboard 04:23:08 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:33:03 -!- Elronnd has joined. 04:34:09 <oren> 1? latex 04:34:13 <oren> `? latex 04:34:16 <HackEgo> LaTeX is \end{verbatim} \textbackslash textbackslash begin\textbackslash \{document\textbackslash \} 04:35:13 <oren> `? python 04:35:13 <HackEgo> python? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:35:21 <oren> `? perl 04:35:23 <HackEgo> Perl is the Perfect Emacs Rewriting Language 04:35:34 <oren> `? ruby 04:35:35 <HackEgo> ruby? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:35:41 <oren> `? C 04:35:41 <HackEgo> C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault 04:36:07 <oren> `unidecode ��V�>WIד�.�� 04:36:08 <HackEgo> ​[U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+0056 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER V] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+003E GREATER-THAN SIGN] [U+0057 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER W] [U+0049 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I] [U+05D3 HEBREW LETTER DALET] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+002E FULL STOP] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT C 04:36:13 <Nihilumbra> Jesus 04:36:51 <zzo38> Make it to including improper UTF-8 codes too 04:37:06 <zzo38> O, yes, you also forgot Python and Ruby 04:37:14 <Nihilumbra> you can't spell slaughter without laughter 04:37:56 <oren> `? scheme 04:37:56 <HackEgo> scheme? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:37:59 <Lyka> what does this code do: for(;P("\n"),R--;P("|"))for(e=C;e--;P("_"+(*u++/8)%2))P("| "+(*u/4)%2); 04:38:34 <Nihilumbra> what is it 04:38:40 <Nihilumbra> and how can I understand it 04:38:48 <Lyka> saw it online 04:38:53 <Lyka> it's c 04:38:55 <Nihilumbra> as one does 04:38:59 <zzo38> I don't know what the P means here even. 04:38:59 <Nihilumbra> I hate c now 04:39:02 <oren> Lyka: enhances someone's job security 04:39:10 <oren> that is'nt normal C 04:39:18 <Nihilumbra> it better not be 04:39:40 <Nihilumbra> I was worried they updated it 04:40:04 <oren> `? C++ 04:40:04 <HackEgo> Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people. 04:40:12 <oren> `? C# 04:40:13 <HackEgo> C#? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:40:18 <Lyka> it's from the unix hoax page 04:40:19 <Elronnd> C# is like java 04:40:33 <Elronnd> java is a language for dumb teachers 04:40:39 <zzo38> I happen to like C instead of C++ but you can program C++ too if you like that one too. 04:40:48 <Lyka> Elronnd: incorrect. C# *is* Java 04:41:07 <Elronnd> I suppose 04:41:13 <zzo38> No, I think C# is a different program language from Java, and uses a different VM too 04:41:36 <Lyka> in college, we had to learn jaa before we could learn C#' 04:41:49 <Elronnd> *java 04:41:50 <oren> C# is way better than Java 04:42:00 <Lyka> indeed 04:42:06 <zzo38> Have you learned 6502 assembly language programming? 04:42:07 -!- Wright_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:42:13 <Lyka> huh? 04:42:16 <Lyka> why? 04:42:28 <Nihilumbra> my mother knows that language zzo38 04:42:42 <Nihilumbra> ask her if you want answers 04:43:00 <Lyka> you must be oungr than me 04:43:06 <oren> `le/rn C#/C Pound is Java's good twin. 04:43:08 <HackEgo> Learned «c#» 04:43:22 <oren> `? C# 04:43:23 <HackEgo> C Pound is Java's good twin. 04:43:36 <Nihilumbra> how old are you? 04:43:43 <oren> 22 04:43:44 <Lyka> 26 04:43:57 <Nihilumbra> I already know oren but lyka yes I am 04:44:07 <zzo38> You can learn 6502 assembly language programming to program Famicom and also some other computers 04:44:17 <Nihilumbra> I'm 17- a week from 18 04:44:23 <oren> `? 6502 04:44:23 <HackEgo> 6502? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:44:40 <Lyka> why whoul anyone in their right mid wanna program an NES? 04:44:41 <oren> `? java 04:44:42 <HackEgo> java? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:44:55 <Lyka> *mind 04:45:05 <Nihilumbra> ??? 04:45:07 <Nihilumbra> because 04:45:08 <oren> Lyka: to make classic awesome video games like Super Mario Bros 3 04:45:14 <Nihilumbra> its fun 04:45:17 <Nihilumbra> and that 04:45:21 <oren> Or to modify them for fun 04:45:34 <zzo38> Lyka: Well, I think it is a good system 04:45:39 <Lyka> lol 04:45:56 <Nihilumbra> Wouldn't you think it to be cool if your mother could make you NES games, lyka? 04:46:11 <Nihilumbra> don't even have to buy them 04:46:16 <Lyka> i think it would be weird 04:46:26 <Nihilumbra> ?¿ 04:46:26 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: wn v rc pl id do bf @ ? . 04:46:38 <Lyka> ? 04:46:40 <Nihilumbra> ok lambdabot 04:46:53 <Nihilumbra> ¿¿¿ why would it be weird??? 04:48:08 <Lyka> we have different moms 04:48:12 <Lyka> brb 04:48:41 <Nihilumbra> I can see that 04:48:59 <zzo38> I think 6502 is a good programming language compared to the mess they made of the newest x86 and ARM systems 04:50:13 <Nihilumbra> but I asked if would be cool if you had a mom like that as in your mom doesn't up and learn 6502 and start scrapping nes games together and making new ones lyka 04:51:07 <zzo38> Some people still do make game for NES/Famicom today. 04:51:21 <Lyka> are you saying you tried to insult my mother? 04:52:13 <Elronnd> ;] 04:52:20 <Nihilumbra> https://i.imgur.com/TxV5Z7r.jpg 04:52:22 <Nihilumbra> lyka 04:52:34 <Nihilumbra> don't even try to make assumptions of what I say 04:52:54 <Nihilumbra> I don't enjoy people who try that 04:54:02 <Nihilumbra> Insulting ones mother is a bad thing to do but if I were to do It I would be to the point and not work my way around with an argument, Although I don't know your mother but she seems nice 04:54:49 <Lyka> and i am hungry and half-asleep which means my paranoia is more than normal 04:55:39 <Lyka> i gotta go get my midnight snack before the cloc hits 1am 04:57:05 <Nihilumbra> or you could 04:57:09 <Nihilumbra> sleep? 04:57:21 <Nihilumbra> because staying up is extremely unhealthy 04:59:28 <Lyka> so is arguing with a crazy tired person at one am 05:01:28 <Nihilumbra> 9 pm* 05:01:40 <Nihilumbra> stop living somewhere else 05:08:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ZZLEEP, you said?). 05:09:31 <zzo38> Is "ZZLEEP" a real word? 05:09:56 <Elronnd> I don't think so 05:10:51 <zzo38> I haven't updated the level20.tex in a while, not any new chapters, not any corrections to what it already is. But it probably contains mistakes that I have not yet noticed 05:17:00 <zzo38> One day I was trying to play someone's Hammond organ but it wouldn't turn on; the owner said that probably the motor is broken. But I thought surely that must be wrong because it doesn't have a motor it works by electrics! But, I did not know it had rotating speakers. 05:22:31 <oren> sometimes the 'dependencies' on packages are clearly not 05:22:49 <zzo38> Example? 05:24:03 <oren> on the libSDL-dev package on Ubuntu, it says it is dependent on pulseaudio client development package. but sdl programs compile and run just fine without any pulseaudio 05:26:12 <zzo38> Can you edit the package? 05:27:50 <oren> I prefer to simply download packages manually and then run dpkg 05:29:51 <oren> dpkg doesn't automatically download dependent packages, so you can control it better when you notice the dependencies are stupid 05:32:10 <oren> `? apt-get 05:32:11 <HackEgo> apt-get? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:33:21 <oren> `le/rn apt-get/apt-get installs whatever you wanted, plus whatever Mark Shuttleworth wanted. 05:33:24 <HackEgo> Learned «apt-get» 05:35:07 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 05:37:32 <shachaf> regular old `learn would have worked there 05:37:40 <shachaf> bu `le/rn is obviously superior 05:40:10 <shachaf> whoa, bellingham 05:41:01 <oren> mednafen includes every emulator known to mankind, but for tha reason it takes a million years to comile 05:43:07 <oren> `? emulator 05:43:08 <HackEgo> emulator? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:43:19 <oren> `? wine 05:43:20 <HackEgo> wine? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:43:51 <shachaf> `` mkdir wisdom/le; echo 'le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past' > wisdom/le/rn 05:43:51 <HackEgo> mkdir: cannot create directory `wisdom/le': File exists \ bash: wisdom/le/rn: Not a directory 05:44:20 <shachaf> `? le 05:44:21 <HackEgo> rn seems to be working rn but it didn't earlier 05:44:30 <shachaf> `` rm wisdom/le; mkdir wisdom/le; echo 'le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past' > wisdom/le/rn 05:44:32 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wisdom/le': Is a directory \ mkdir: cannot create directory `wisdom/le': File exists 05:44:43 <shachaf> `? le/rn 05:44:44 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past 05:46:42 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/le/rn 05:46:44 <HackEgo> No output. 05:55:59 <oren> `? le 05:56:00 <HackEgo> cat: le: Is a directory 05:56:03 <oren> `? lern 05:56:04 <HackEgo> lern? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:56:06 <oren> `? le/rn 05:56:07 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past. 06:02:35 <oren> `? oren 06:02:35 <HackEgo> oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. 06:02:42 <oren> lol 06:04:09 <oren> `? Lyka 06:04:10 <HackEgo> Lyka? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 06:05:54 <oren> `? tar 06:05:55 <HackEgo> tar? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 06:06:06 <Lyka> yes? 06:07:27 <Lyka> oren: you called me? 06:08:23 <oren> `le/rn tar/The command you're looking for is probably either tar -xavkf or tar -cavf 06:08:26 <HackEgo> Learned «tar» 06:09:16 <Lyka> night all 06:09:25 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 06:10:10 <oren> Never, ever, forget the -k in tar -xavkf 06:11:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: I'm cutting myself off till my homework is complete). 06:15:49 <FireFly> ...why? 06:16:05 <FireFly> Oh, that's handy 06:18:24 <oren> ...yeah. a year ago I spent an hour modding some program that did almost what I needed, to do what I needed, and then pressed up, up, enter with the wrong number of ups, obliterating it. 06:22:56 <oren> the -a is jus convenience, so you don't have to remember that z is gzip, Z is compress, j is bzip2, J is xzip 06:23:32 <zzo38> I generally just use pipes though 06:23:56 <zzo38> tar doesn't need all of those options 06:24:51 <zzo38> The best way is to design the program to follow the principle to use pipes as much as possible. My own software such as AmigaMML is following such principle. 06:25:34 <oren> well it is GNU tar. GNU wouldn't be GNU without their habit of adding every possible letter as an option letter to every program 06:26:02 <zzo38> GNU adds too much stuff 06:26:04 <FireFly> oren: GNU tar does -a implicitly I suppose. I usually just tar xf and it handles tar, tar.gz, tar.bz2 and tar.xz 06:26:53 <oren> oh. handy 06:30:26 <zzo38> You can pipe zcat to tar, that's how you do it 06:32:04 <zzo38> Just use tar -x 06:32:14 <FireFly> Fair point 06:32:48 <FireFly> I'm dealing with an archive format at the moment where each file might be stored plain or compressed.. what would you do in such a case? 06:33:10 <zzo38> What kind of archive format is that? 06:33:32 <FireFly> "GARC", I don't know what the G stands for 06:33:55 <shachaf> FireFly: A decompression program that detects whether the file is compressed? 06:33:57 <FireFly> It's used in Pokemon X/Y to store things 06:34:21 <zzo38> If the archive format itself is having compression, then it can be part of the same program. 06:34:37 <FireFly> Sensible enough 06:34:44 <zzo38> If the compression is separate (like with .tar.gz) then you should use the separate program. 06:35:04 <FireFly> shachaf: right, that's pretty much what I'm doing currently 07:06:35 -!- password2_ has joined. 07:35:57 -!- Nihilumbra has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:10:18 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:13:33 <oren> the newest mednafen supports custom palettes 08:22:07 <oren> http://postimg.org/image/vbym49fob/ 08:26:25 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 08:26:55 <oren> the palette format is pretty much undocumented, but by reading the source and experimenting, I concluded that a complete palette is 24 bytes, consisting of 8 24-bit colors 08:27:42 <oren> (for the game boy. I don't know what the format for other systems it) 08:31:12 <oren> but it's refresing actually. there's no complex header or version number or other such nonsense. just 24 bytes. 08:33:01 <FireFly> What upscaling algorithm is that? 08:33:13 <oren> hq4x 08:43:30 <Taneb> What's a polite way of saying "You seem to know me but I have no idea who you are" 08:46:41 <oren> uh... dang." 08:47:24 <oren> I dunno. "Have we met before?" is maybe the best I can come up with 08:52:15 -!- Welo has joined. 08:59:00 <J_Arcane> Curse you readline! 09:00:07 <Taneb> ? 09:04:38 <oren> I've noticed a bug in one of their scalers, I'm gonna try to fix it 09:08:49 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:24:32 <mroman_> fnord. 09:26:46 <mroman_> Taneb: I'm sorry but right now I'm struggling to remember our last encounter. 09:27:11 <mroman_> Could you give me a hint? 09:28:24 <Taneb> :P 09:49:58 -!- toxolotl1 has joined. 09:53:45 <oren> ha! fixed the bug 09:54:00 <Taneb> :D 09:54:50 <oren> hold on, I'll make a sample 09:59:22 <oren> http://postimg.org/image/5hv845msv/b791af2c/ 09:59:55 <oren> illustrates the difference. see the weird pinwheel effect in the nose of the spacefighter 10:00:47 <oren> I fixed that, but it looks different in other situations. I think I'll try to fix that too 10:02:39 <oren> Hmm I guess it's less of a bug fix and more a custom algorithm 10:03:16 <oren> but hey that's the entire point of using open-source software anyay 10:03:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:26:15 -!- idris-bot has joined. 10:27:25 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit). 10:27:56 -!- idris-bot has joined. 11:12:50 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 11:26:32 <mroman_> damnit I forgot to push some things to my Gulf repos from work :( 11:32:55 <mroman_> Even though there's some overhead with , and . much of the stuff can be done shorter than Burlesque 11:33:05 <mroman_> 1bc4ro?/ for example, is now a mere ,Z1/:4 11:39:44 <mroman_> I might need another prefix for 3 argument functions 11:44:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ΜCurse]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43179&oldid=40993 * Sacchan * (+432) 11:45:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ΜCurse]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43180&oldid=43179 * Sacchan * (+1) 11:49:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ΜCurse]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43181&oldid=43180 * Sacchan * (+0) 11:50:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ΜCurse]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43182&oldid=43181 * Sacchan * (+0) 11:51:38 <fizzie> Taneb: You can say you've lost your memory because of a tragic accident, I understand that's pretty common. 11:51:49 <fizzie> (Based on fiction, anyway.) 12:19:23 <Jafet> More fun complexity analyses: O(n^34 k^34 d^8 log(n)^4 / σ^6) 12:20:02 <int-e> for some reason I'm imagining a posh voice saying "I'm sorry, but have we met?!" (bonus: raised eybrows) 12:20:51 <Jafet> (Upper bound on smoothed running time for the k-means algorithm) 12:21:16 <int-e> Jafet: that looks horrible. 12:21:52 <Jafet> I just find it amusing that they bothered to include the log(n)^4 12:22:41 <int-e> because otherwise it's not a valid upper bound? 12:22:56 <int-e> I guess they could've used n^(34+o(1))... 12:23:17 * int-e wonders what the o is 12:23:40 <Jafet> (or how they got 34 over n and only 4 over log(n)) 12:24:55 <Jafet> o(1) means that it tends to zero: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_O_notation#Little-o_notation 12:25:56 <int-e> ah you had a sigma there... sorry, the difference is very subtle in the font I'm using. 12:26:43 <int-e> so the question I meant to ask is, what's that σ 12:26:59 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:28:36 <Jafet> According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-means_clustering#Complexity, d is the dimension and σ is the stddev for randomly smoothing the input data 12:28:59 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:33:55 <Lyka> i didn't know that 'K' meant clstering... 12:34:28 <Lyka> just making a joe on the URL 12:34:36 <Lyka> *joke 12:36:14 * Lyka is clearly the stupidest person in th room 13:05:29 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 13:06:35 -!- password2 has joined. 13:07:15 <fizzie> "The running time of Lloyds algorithm is often given as O(nkdi), where n is the number of d-dimensional vectors, k the number of clusters and i the number of iterations needed until convergence." 13:07:23 <fizzie> I like the 'i' part, since you can nicely generalize that to "the running time of algorithm X is O(t), where t is the number of operations performed by the algorithm". 13:12:01 <FireFly> Amazing. It's linear in the time taken by the algorithm 13:15:30 <Melvar> fizzie: Is there an obvious bound on i? 13:17:03 <fizzie> Not in general. 13:33:32 <J_Arcane> nerding it up old school https://twitter.com/J_Arcane/status/607539688317022208 13:39:23 <Taneb> `? BDSM 13:39:29 -!- nys has joined. 13:39:34 <Taneb> HackEgo, ??? 13:39:38 <HackEgo> BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it. 13:40:17 <Melvar> fizzie: So more like, the running time is unbounded? 13:40:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb 13:40:52 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover 13:40:52 <Phantom_Hoover> did you know there's a character in xcom called van doorn 13:41:02 <Taneb> Yes, someone has told me in the pst 13:41:03 <Taneb> *past 13:41:07 <Taneb> (possibly you) 13:41:17 <Taneb> It's not an unheard of name in the Netherlands 13:42:19 <Taneb> There is a DJ and a former anti-Islam politician who converted to Islam 13:44:42 <int-e> `rot0 this seems useful 13:44:42 <HackEgo> this seems useful 13:47:13 <Taneb> `rot26 this seems MORE useful 13:47:14 <HackEgo> this seems MORE useful 13:47:43 <int-e> but it cheats :( 13:48:26 <Taneb> Can anyone think of a cunning way to put all my inventions on my CV 13:49:03 <int-e> `? tanebventions 13:49:06 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, and this sentence. 13:49:17 <Taneb> `? TIL 13:49:18 <HackEgo> TIL that TIL means Today I Learned 13:49:27 <int-e> `? persistence 13:49:32 <HackEgo> Taneb invented persistence long ago, and it's been around ever since. 13:49:41 <int-e> Ah, that kind of persistence. 13:51:53 <Phantom_Hoover> `? wolfram 13:51:53 <HackEgo> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 13:52:56 <int-e> "We call a property of many-sorted TRS's persistent if a many-sorted TRS has the property if and only if its adjoined one-sorted TRS has the property." 13:55:05 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 13:58:48 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 14:01:00 -!- augur has joined. 14:04:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:04:25 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:05:04 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 14:05:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:06:21 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:06:41 <oren> I figured out how to add a custom scaler to mednafen 14:07:16 <oren> I;m gonna make one that is hideously inefficient but makes eveything look exactly right 14:09:39 <oren> actually maybe it can still be efficiant if I get the order of the tests correct 14:12:26 -!- atrapado has joined. 14:34:33 -!- evalj has joined. 14:39:36 <oren> coming along ok http://s17.postimg.org/48v0giw0v/notperfect.png 14:46:26 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:50:02 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:55:26 <izabera> i just downloaded advent children again 14:55:52 <izabera> when it came out, i was like "ok this is it. there will never be 3d graphic more perfect than this." 14:55:54 <izabera> now meh :\ 14:56:09 <izabera> the fire is ugly, the detail is low overall 14:56:29 <izabera> i mean it's still cool but :( 14:56:49 <oerjan> 's ok. in a century we'll think real life has shitty graphics hth 14:58:04 <b_jonas> oerjan: yeah, especially the effects 14:58:57 <b_jonas> oerjan: we need more people like Tarquin, who install dimmers in their palace just so they can give foreshadowings in a monologue better 14:59:07 <int-e> izabera: I remember admiring the graphics of Myst... 14:59:53 <oerjan> that does sound like tarquin although i don't remember the scene. 14:59:59 <int-e> Nowadays even the remastered edition (16bit images, no longer restricted to an 8 bit palette!!) looks quite plain. 15:00:50 <izabera> how old is myst? 15:00:55 <izabera> oh 1993 15:01:44 <int-e> note, they only had prerendered gaphics. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d0/Myst-library_and_ship.jpg 15:01:52 <int-e> that picture is fairly typical. 15:02:11 <izabera> much detail 15:02:13 <izabera> very graphic 15:02:39 <int-e> it was one of the first games to ship exclusively on on CDROM. 15:03:12 <b_jonas> maybe people should play sound effects on their mobile phones during dialogs or meetings 15:09:06 <b_jonas> oerjan: dimmers are in strip #751 15:13:57 <oren> So what i'm gonna do is, I'm gonna look at 21 pixels instead of nine around each pixel 15:18:21 <oren> and then just write ad-hoc code for every situation 15:20:38 * Lyka thinks he is stupidest person in the room 15:20:41 <Melvar> Blah. Is there a standard haskell function splitting a number into digits? 15:21:50 <int-e> show. 15:22:15 <Lyka> or else this topic is not my are of knowledge 15:23:15 <oerjan> Lyka: i wouldn't bet on that. at least not all the time. 15:23:23 <int-e> @type showIntAtBase 15:23:25 <lambdabot> (Integral a, Show a) => a -> (Int -> Char) -> a -> ShowS 15:24:13 <oerjan> int-e: itym "show" hth 15:24:17 <Melvar> int-e: Yeah, but that involves roundtripping through Char. 15:24:23 <int-e> oerjan: that was my first reply 15:24:29 <oerjan> oops 15:24:39 <Melvar> Also for different bases, yes. Sorry, forgot to specify that. 15:25:40 <Melvar> I mean “map digitToInt (showIntAtBase base intToDigit num "")” works, but I wanted to know if there isn’t something a bit more elegant. 15:26:09 <oerjan> i don't think there's anything else that handles other bases. 15:26:35 <Melvar> Okay then. 15:26:40 <oerjan> it's rather stupid that showIntAtBase is restricted to Char :( 15:26:57 <oerjan> there's no intrinsic reason why it should be. 15:27:19 <int-e> > let d b n | b > n = [n] | otherwise = let (x:xs) = d (b^2) n in (if x < b then (x :) else (div x b :) . (mod x b :)) (xs >>= \x -> [div x b, mod x b]) in [d b 1000 | b <- [2,8,10,16]] 15:27:24 <lambdabot> [[1,1,1,1,1,0,1,0,0,0],[1,7,5,0],[1,0,0,0],[3,14,8]] 15:27:32 <oerjan> i think there's been at least one proposal to generalize it. 15:27:39 <Jafet> map (`mod` b) . takeWhile (>0) . iterate (`div` b) 15:28:26 <oerjan> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.libraries/24560 15:28:51 <int-e> @let d b n | b > n = [n] | otherwise = let (x:xs) = d (b^2) n in (if x < b then (x :) else (div x b :) . (mod x b :)) (xs >>= \x -> [div x b, mod x b]) 15:28:53 <lambdabot> .L.hs:150:20: 15:28:53 <lambdabot> Ambiguous occurrence ‘d’ 15:28:53 <lambdabot> It could refer to either ‘L.d’, defined at .L.hs:147:1 15:28:59 <int-e> hah. 15:29:28 <int-e> @let digits b n | b > n = [n] | otherwise = let (x:xs) = digits (b^2) n in (if x < b then (x :) else (div x b :) . (mod x b :)) (xs >>= \x -> [div x b, mod x b]) 15:29:30 <lambdabot> Defined. 15:29:38 <int-e> > digits 9 (10^10000) 15:29:40 <lambdabot> [3,0,8,8,0,8,2,5,0,4,5,2,7,4,6,0,5,2,4,8,5,8,5,3,2,5,4,3,8,0,6,6,3,2,3,8,0,0... 15:30:00 <int-e> > let digits b = map (`mod` b) . takeWhile (>0) . iterate (`div` b) in digits 9 (10^10000) 15:30:03 <lambdabot> [1,1,4,2,0,4,3,3,0,0,6,4,2,7,2,5,4,8,4,6,4,0,8,6,2,8,6,2,5,4,0,0,7,5,7,5,3,3... 15:30:31 <int-e> > let digits b = map (`mod` b) . takeWhile (>0) . iterate (`div` b) in reverse $ digits 9 (10^10000) 15:30:34 <lambdabot> [3,0,8,8,0,8,2,5,0,4,5,2,7,4,6,0,5,2,4,8,5,8,5,3,2,5,4,3,8,0,6,6,3,2,3,8,0,0... 15:30:51 <int-e> > let digits b = map (`mod` b) . takeWhile (>0) . iterate (`div` b) in reverse $ digits 9 (10^100000) 15:30:56 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 15:31:02 <int-e> > digits 9 (10^10000) 15:31:05 <lambdabot> [3,0,8,8,0,8,2,5,0,4,5,2,7,4,6,0,5,2,4,8,5,8,5,3,2,5,4,3,8,0,6,6,3,2,3,8,0,0... 15:31:19 <int-e> err. 15:31:20 <int-e> > digits 9 (10^100000) 15:31:23 <lambdabot> [1,3,8,0,5,3,6,7,3,7,4,7,0,7,2,3,0,0,0,2,5,7,0,7,6,1,5,2,0,7,7,1,7,3,0,0,6,3... 15:31:37 <int-e> sorry, I spammed a bit more than I intended. 15:35:09 <int-e> Melvar: anyway I'd use something like Jafet's code if the numbers are small, and something like mine if the numbers can become big. If I really cared about performance for big numbers I'd start by computing the largest power of b that fits into a machine word... 15:36:29 <Melvar> int-e, Jafet: Thank you. 15:38:42 <Melvar> For my purpose the numbers shall always be 1114111 in bases 8, 10, and 16, but magic numbers and stuff. 15:45:08 -!- lleu has joined. 15:45:54 <oerjan> this opposition on the list to generalizing showIntAtBase is weird - afaict from the code, the *only* change necessary is the type signature. 15:45:58 -!- Wright has joined. 15:48:45 <shachaf> Which list? 15:49:21 <oerjan> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.haskell.libraries/24560 15:49:52 <shachaf> Oh, a while ago. 15:51:42 * Melvar is just going to roundtrip through showIntAtBase because that way it’s most obvious what it’s doing. <ω< 15:56:05 <int-e> Oh nice, ghc's "show" for Integer is still using my code, virtually unmodified since 2006 :) 15:57:40 <shachaf> whoa 15:57:49 <int-e> (but I never followed up on the idea of also improving the generic showIntAtBase) 15:57:57 <shachaf> was i even alive in 2006? 15:58:02 <shachaf> such a long time ago 15:58:43 <oerjan> shachaf: depends on whether you believe in last tuesdayism hth 15:59:08 <shachaf> oerjan: i invented it hth 15:59:28 <oerjan> but i do have you down as probably older than 9. most of the time. 16:00:50 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa 16:00:55 <shachaf> what else do you have me down as 16:01:59 <oerjan> lessee, jewish, vegetarian, bit on the nosy side... 16:02:16 <oerjan> oh and haskeller of course. 16:02:23 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa 16:02:27 <oerjan> and berkeleyish 16:02:41 <int-e> lens adept 16:02:47 <oerjan> int-e: good one 16:04:10 <oerjan> oh and finnishish 16:05:59 <oerjan> a functor pro 16:06:10 -!- Lyka has changed nick to Lyka|Away. 16:06:10 <shachaf> i somewhat have to wonder how the first one came about 16:06:28 <oerjan> wait which one? 16:07:12 <Melvar> > ({-Unit-}) 16:07:20 <lambdabot> () 16:07:22 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:07:50 <oerjan> oh hm 16:08:00 <oerjan> shachaf: lessee was an interjection hth 16:08:25 -!- lleu has joined. 16:08:30 <shachaf> i understood, but that would be a good pun 16:09:23 <shachaf> anyway 16:09:35 <oerjan> i didn't actually know it had a different meaning until now 16:18:34 -!- KitB has joined. 16:19:54 <oren> having only some patterns implemented causes a weird appearance 16:26:19 <oren> like some parts of the screen are silky smooth, while others are pixelated 16:27:03 -!- hilquias has joined. 16:28:33 -!- Koen__ has joined. 16:29:50 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:31:02 <Vorpal> Why does gyroscopic precession work the way it does? 16:31:29 * oerjan suddenly wonders if some of the more inane wisdoms are symbolic links that got broken 16:31:35 <oerjan> `wisdom 16:31:36 <HackEgo> ocean/The pacific ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The atlantic ocean is less cool than its giant underwater moutain range. The arctic ocean is cold. The indian ocean is full of typhoons and non-eurocentric shipping. 16:31:56 <b_jonas> Vorpal: because http://www.xkcd.com/332/ 16:32:04 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/moutain/mountain/' wisdom/ocean 16:32:08 <HackEgo> No output. 16:32:43 <shachaf> `` find wisdom -type l | while read f; do echo -n "$(basename "$f")/"; readlink "$f"; done 16:32:44 <HackEgo> the reals/real \ perpetuum mobile/perpetual motion machine \ the torus/torus \ koen_/koen \ issue/.doorstop \ canary/../canary 16:33:26 <Vorpal> b_jonas, right 16:34:24 <oerjan> `le/rn ocean/The Pacific Ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The Atlantic Ocean is less cool than its giant underwater mountain range. The Arctic Ocean is cold. The Indian Ocean is full of typhoons and non-Eurocentric shipping. 16:34:26 <HackEgo> Learned «ocean» 16:34:41 <Vorpal> b_jonas, came across it again when reading about helicopters. I guess the issue is that unlike the other basic laws of newtonian motion, it makes no intuitive sense 16:34:48 <shachaf> `? le/rn 16:34:48 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past. 16:37:23 <oerjan> shachaf: that's exactly the opposite of what i wondered. i was wondering if there were wisdoms that *used* to be symbolic links, but due to repository/whatever interaction got changed into ordinary files with the destination as plain text. 16:37:42 <shachaf> oh 16:37:54 <shachaf> why would the destination be plain text? 16:38:26 <oerjan> because iirc that's what it looks like if you manage to directly cat a symbolic link 16:38:41 <oerjan> or well 16:38:58 <oerjan> that's what symbolic links look like in the repository browser 16:39:54 <oerjan> so i assume that's what the repository thinks they are, and it's only plain luck if it doesn't get munged to that in accidental `reverts and the like. 16:40:53 <oerjan> i guess my summary is: i don't trust symbolic links to survive `revert wars. 16:40:54 <Vorpal> oerjan, hg? 16:41:13 <Vorpal> oerjan, if it is hg, hg fully supports symlinks afaik 16:41:22 <oerjan> Vorpal: ok let's hope so. 16:43:40 <oerjan> `` rm wisdom/torus; echo test >wisdom/torus 16:43:42 <HackEgo> No output. 16:43:45 <oerjan> `? torus 16:43:45 <HackEgo> test 16:43:50 <oerjan> `? the torus 16:43:51 <HackEgo> test 16:43:54 <oerjan> `revert 16:44:04 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:44:08 <HackEgo> Done. 16:44:13 <oerjan> `? torus 16:44:14 <HackEgo> Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented them. 16:44:23 <oerjan> ok you seem to be right 16:44:54 <oerjan> ...now wondering about `undo 16:45:03 <oerjan> `` rm wisdom/torus; echo test >wisdom/torus 16:45:05 <HackEgo> No output. 16:45:08 <oerjan> `? torus 16:45:09 <HackEgo> test 16:45:17 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:45:37 <oerjan> `undo 5464 16:46:10 <oerjan> HackEgo seems to be rather slow at this 16:46:22 <HackEgo> patching file wisdom/torus 16:46:37 <oerjan> `? torus 16:46:38 <HackEgo> Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented them. 16:46:44 <oerjan> OKAY 16:47:14 <oerjan> shachaf: i shall stop worrying about HackEgo symbolic links until further notice tdh 16:48:06 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/torus 16:48:08 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 61 Jun 7 16:47 wisdom/torus 16:48:13 <oerjan> ...or not. 16:48:57 <oerjan> WORRY REINSTATED 16:49:15 <oerjan> `` rm wisdom/torus; ln -s 'the torus' wisdom/torus 16:49:17 <HackEgo> No output. 16:49:20 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/torus 16:49:22 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Jun 7 16:50 wisdom/torus -> the torus 16:50:30 <shachaf> `` find wisdom -type f | while read f; do [ -f "$f" ] || continue; a="$(cat "$f")"; [ -f "wisdom/$a" ] && echo "${f#wisdom/}/$a"; done 16:50:33 <oerjan> shachaf: ok `revert and `undo *do* break symbolic links - but the contents seem to become the target contents, not the file name. 16:50:56 <HackEgo> quit//quit \ solain/ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ 16:51:53 <oerjan> @tell Gregor `revert (and `undo) don't reinstate symbolic links properly ;_; 16:51:54 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 16:52:12 <shachaf> `? quit 16:52:13 <HackEgo> ​/quit 16:52:15 <shachaf> `? solain 16:52:16 <HackEgo> ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ 16:52:20 <shachaf> `? ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ 16:52:20 <HackEgo> ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ Your dongers. Raise them. ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ 16:52:52 <shachaf> those seem p. inane but it looks like they're meant to be that way 16:54:14 <oerjan> you'd think. 16:54:43 <oerjan> i suspect the breakage i saw will show up as two wisdoms being identical. 16:56:20 <oerjan> `` ls -l *wolfram* 16:56:21 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access *wolfram*: No such file or directory 16:56:26 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/*wolfram* 16:56:27 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 83 Apr 15 07:52 wisdom/stephen wolfram \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 83 Apr 15 07:52 wisdom/wolfram 16:56:50 <oerjan> `` diff wisdom/*wolfram* 16:56:51 <HackEgo> No output. 16:57:01 <oerjan> those seem like pretty good candidates 16:57:15 <shachaf> oerjan: yes, but i already wrote that loop hth 16:57:48 <oerjan> shachaf: wait what loop 16:58:07 <shachaf> the one that loops for symlinks in your previous failure mode 16:58:42 <oerjan> shachaf: um the previous that i don't believe in any longer? 16:59:17 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:59:48 <oerjan> oh well gotta go 16:59:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 17:00:36 <shachaf> oerjan: yes 17:00:58 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm saying, i know that's how the breakage shows up, but i already wrote that loop 17:03:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:16:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:17:53 -!- boily has joined. 17:25:56 -!- llue has joined. 17:29:45 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:34:57 -!- Welo has joined. 17:47:06 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:47:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:47:42 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 17:59:15 -!- hilquias` has joined. 18:02:53 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:15:20 <boily> `? å 18:15:21 <HackEgo> ​å is the same letter as Å, unless you're HackEgo and don't understand things on top of letters. 18:16:24 <boily> confirmation I missed at least one entry. 18:17:10 <coppro> since I'm going to meet you apparently, why did you actually compile wisdom.pdf? "Why not?" is acceptable 18:17:30 <ais523> `? Å 18:17:30 <HackEgo> ​Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters. 18:19:05 <boily> coppro: I felt like it. nothing like a beautifully typeset document. 18:20:03 <boily> also, I'm our DnD group note taker and journal maker. It's a tradition to read the day's highlights standing on a chair. 18:20:06 <ais523> it feels like a #esoteric kind of thing to do 18:20:26 <boily> there's even a makefile! 18:21:32 <coppro> we should try to have a meeting sometime, with parliamentary procedure 18:21:54 <coppro> but no one is allowed advance notice of the meeting and everyone is required to use a different set of rules 18:22:15 <boily> can I chose the parliament? will a simple town hall do? 18:22:26 <boily> also, do you have a github account? 18:22:30 -!- atrapado has changed nick to atrapa. 18:22:39 <coppro> yes, but there isn't much of interest on it. why? 18:23:18 <boily> Deewiant: Dheellowiant. I'm updating the Wisdom PDF, and there aren't any descriptions under your section. care to provide some info about yourself twh? 18:23:32 <coppro> in fact I'm going to clean up my github by deleting stuff nobody cared about anyway 18:23:34 <boily> coppro: to add you as a collaborator to the repo. 18:24:06 -!- atrapa has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:24:20 -!- atrapa has joined. 18:24:33 <coppro> boily: uh sure 18:24:35 <coppro> scshunt 18:24:45 -!- atrapa has changed nick to atrapado. 18:25:01 <boily> `thanks coppro 18:25:02 <HackEgo> Thanks, coppro. Thoppro. 18:25:41 -!- llue has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:27:11 <coppro> no I don't know why I made that logo 18:27:33 <coppro> I need to get a decent picture of my face to use as a fact in all the places they expect a face 18:30:01 <Deewiant> `? Deewiant 18:30:02 <HackEgo> Deewiant is the world's number one expert on Befunge and Funge-98. 18:30:04 <Deewiant> boily: hth 18:30:13 <zzo38> I also play Dungeons&Dragons game but not since March 27, I type all the notes on computer 18:30:53 <boily> Deewiant: oh. I was simply missing it. will be added soon. tdh. 18:30:56 <Deewiant> Actually that may be inaccurate, I think the original quote is 2009-04-02 00:20:06 (ais523) Deewiant here is the world expert on Befunge conformance testing 18:31:21 <ais523> I stand by that quote 18:31:25 <boily> hmm... tough call. I think I'll be going with the latter. more #esöteric. 18:31:34 <boily> and it's ais523approved too! 18:31:43 <ais523> my original, that is 18:31:56 <shachaf> boily: whoa whoa whoa 18:31:58 <boily> coppro: I use my universal kaki for everything that expects an avatar. 18:32:01 <boily> shachaf: whoa? 18:32:39 <shachaf> i hope you don't have any description of me 18:32:46 <zzo38> Why? 18:32:47 <boily> let me check... 18:32:57 <boily> ah! 18:33:06 <boily> yes. oh que oui j'ai une description. mouah ah ah. 18:33:43 -!- Herbalist has joined. 18:34:01 <boily> `? shachaf 18:34:01 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. 18:34:14 <boily> `? funpuns 18:34:14 <HackEgo> funpuns fceø fbz fryyrev naq pbfcynlf Arcrgn Yrvwba ba jrrxraqf. 18:35:03 <int-e> `? boily 18:35:04 <HackEgo> boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. 18:35:28 <int-e> `? metasepia 18:35:29 <HackEgo> metasepia knows the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks. 18:35:54 <int-e> `? lambdabot 18:35:55 <HackEgo> lambdabot is a fully functional bot. just don't ask about @src. 18:36:00 <Deewiant> `learn Deewiant is the world expert on Befunge conformance testing. 18:36:02 <HackEgo> Learned 'deewiant': Deewiant is the world expert on Befunge conformance testing. 18:36:09 <Deewiant> Might as well make it canon 18:36:22 <coppro> `coppro 18:36:22 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: coppro: not found 18:36:27 <coppro> `? coppro 18:36:27 <HackEgo> coppro prefers his nickname, Pooppy. 18:36:59 <zzo38> `? Linux 18:36:59 <HackEgo> Linux? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:37:01 <fizzie> I think ø should rot13 to b̷. Or at least something. 18:37:03 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:37:31 <coppro> http://rot8000.com/index 18:37:38 <boily> rot8000. wow. 18:37:41 <zzo38> `? ROT13 18:37:41 <HackEgo> ROT13? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:37:45 <zzo38> `? AmigaMML 18:37:46 <HackEgo> Only fools such as zzo38 and so on try to use AmigaMML on a PC. Real Men try to use AmigaMML on a Amiga computer. \ https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/amigamml/wiki/Frequently_and_unfrequently_asked_questions 18:38:16 <boily> I think I prefer fizzie's suggestion. let's see how I can massage the latex to get a stroked b. 18:38:17 <zzo38> `? fizzie 18:38:18 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg 18:38:25 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:38:25 <HackEgo> log/I think you might mean !logs 18:38:42 <shachaf> zzo38: Are you a fool? 18:38:47 <zzo38> No 18:39:14 <zzo38> Well, relative to wise people I am a bit foolish 18:39:21 <ais523> hmm, my browser thinks that .jpg is a "26300 file" rather than a jpeg 18:39:59 <int-e> Content-Type: application/binary <-- not helpful 18:40:18 <ais523> is that even a real content type? 18:40:22 <zzo38> Can you override MIME types in your browser? 18:40:32 <shachaf> zzo38: I wish I could. 18:40:34 <zzo38> (In the one I use, it has that capability) 18:40:56 <Melvar> < fizzie> I think ø should rot13 to b̷. Or at least something. – Does that happen if you NFKD it first? 18:40:58 <shachaf> So I could view things that are sent as application/octet-stream as text/plain or application/pdf or something. 18:41:03 <Melvar> `? Melvar 18:41:04 <HackEgo> Melvar? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:41:08 <Melvar> `? idris-bot 18:41:09 <HackEgo> idris-bot? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:41:10 <boily> `? Dulnes 18:41:12 <Melvar> `? idris 18:41:13 <HackEgo> idris? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:41:13 <HackEgo> Dulnes? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:41:24 <zzo38> Clearly is a lot of missing 18:41:34 <Deewiant> shachaf: https://github.com/spasche/openinbrowser if firefox 18:41:40 <shachaf> chromium 18:41:56 <boily> @ask Dulnes hi there! we're missing an official description of you for... uh... purposes. care to provide one twh? have a nice diurnal episode. 18:41:57 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 18:42:16 <int-e> `? me 18:42:17 <HackEgo> me? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:42:36 <zzo38> `? Firefox 18:42:37 <HackEgo> Firefox? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:42:50 <int-e> `? int-e 18:42:51 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. 18:43:04 <boily> re Dulnes: I put in a placeholder. 18:43:38 <zzo38> `? Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe 18:43:38 <HackEgo> Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:43:41 <zzo38> `? 2600 18:43:42 <HackEgo> 2600? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:43:42 <boily> int-e: I'm adding this new description, but keeping the old one two. 18:43:53 <boily> s/two/too/ 18:44:21 <zzo38> `learn 2600 Hz is the tone made by Captain Crunch's whistle. 18:44:24 <HackEgo> Learned '2600': 2600 Hz is the tone made by Captain Crunch's whistle. 18:44:42 <int-e> oh is it the one that allowed free phone calls? 18:45:16 <pikhq> Yep. 18:45:35 <zzo38> On some systems it allowed you to set the routing of calls yourself, so you could get free phone calls and other stuff 18:45:57 <boily> `? b_jonas 18:45:57 <HackEgo> b_jonas? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:46:04 <zzo38> It is also the name of a magazine published quarterly 18:46:18 <zzo38> They often have strange stuff in the letters section 18:46:25 <int-e> `? nortti 18:46:26 <HackEgo> nortti boy. very nortti boy. 18:46:49 <b_jonas> `? me? 18:46:50 <HackEgo> me?? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:46:58 <boily> b_jhellonas. this is the Department of Wisdom. you are undescripted. please provide some witty quip or prepare to be granted a Government Approved tagline. your cooperation is appreciated. 18:47:13 <nortti> who hath summoned me? 18:47:19 <int-e> `learn Me is a proud member of the tEaM. 18:47:21 <HackEgo> Learned 'me': Me is a proud member of the tEaM. 18:48:22 <int-e> `quote nortti 18:48:23 <HackEgo> 731) <oklopol> nortti: fizzie has done some impressive stuff in befunge, which is essentially the two-dimensional version of finnish politics. \ 732) <elliott> It's... not really links2-optimised. <nortti> elliott: I don't think that any page is links2 optimised \ 1202) <int-e> The people of Procrasti hereby resolve to lodge a formal complaint wit 18:48:33 <int-e> `quote 1202 18:48:34 <HackEgo> 1202) <int-e> The people of Procrasti hereby resolve to lodge a formal complaint with Taneb and nortti about their ridicule of Procasti's glorious nation... later. 18:48:54 <int-e> nortti: thinking about that complaint ;) 18:49:05 <boily> b_jonas: apparently, there's a placeholder under your section for the time being. 18:49:05 <nortti> hehee 18:49:14 <coppro> am I an honourary citizen of Procrasti? 18:49:39 <b_jonas> witty quip? hmm, that's difficult 18:49:45 <coppro> I never got around to filling out my citizenship application 18:49:56 <int-e> coppro: I suppose the Procrastination isn't very picky with its citizens. 18:50:43 <int-e> `quote mornings 18:50:44 <HackEgo> 1119) <ion> olsner: For all x, the probability of a monad tutorial existing that explains monads as x approaches one as time goes to infinity. <boily> good monadic morning! <ion> Monads are a bit like mornings. <myname> what 18:51:13 <olsner> `quote monad 18:51:14 <HackEgo> 368) <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, little do you realise that everything you say and do is part of that great monad tutorial we call life. \ 515) <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Sort of a monadic human centipede. \ 516) <elliott> When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a monad. \ 527) <Gregor> You know how the arrow pierces your skin, rearrang 18:52:08 <int-e> Let it be stated clearly once and for all that this is not a Haskell channel. ... *runs* 18:52:20 * shikhin summons nortti. 18:52:42 <nortti> oh, right, you're here too 18:52:43 -!- lemurian has joined. 18:52:43 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:52:54 <int-e> `quote can't 18:52:55 <HackEgo> 85) <Warrigal> Darn, now I can't acknowledge the reference you were making. \ 135) <fizzie> It's like mathematicians, where the next step up from "trivial" is "open research question". <fizzie> "Nope... No...This problem can't be done AT ALL. This one--maybe, but only with two yaks and a sherpa. ..." \ 143) <fungot> Vorpal: you can't plant spiders 18:52:57 <olsner> int-e: let's just pretend that haskell is an esolang then 18:53:10 <boily> @ask vanila good moment of the day! would you care being shamelessly wisdomified? twh and all that sort of thing. 18:53:10 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 18:53:17 <boily> olsner: it is. 18:53:25 <shikhin> `quote Procrasti 18:53:26 <HackEgo> 1202) <int-e> The people of Procrasti hereby resolve to lodge a formal complaint with Taneb and nortti about their ridicule of Procasti's glorious nation... later. 18:53:32 <int-e> olsner: right, let's quote https://xkcd.com/1312/ as a proof 18:53:42 <shikhin> `quote Procrastination 18:53:43 <HackEgo> No output. 18:53:47 <shikhin> Ow. 18:53:52 <int-e> `? procrastination 18:53:53 <HackEgo> procrastination? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:54:04 <nortti> shikhin: no one's gotten around to adding those 18:54:12 <shikhin> Ah. 18:54:31 <boily> `quote 1228 18:54:32 <HackEgo> 1228) <{\[oren]|}> ｚｚｏ３８：ｉｔ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｃａｕｓｅ　ｐｒｏｂｌｅｍｓ　ｂｙ　ｂｅｉｎｇ　ｈｉｌａｒｉｏｕｓ 18:54:44 <shikhin> `quote 33 18:54:45 <HackEgo> 33) <mycroftiv> [...] sometimes i cant get out of bed becasue the geometry of the sheet tangle is too fascinating from a topological perspective 18:54:52 <boily> fungot dammit. this one's going to be interesting to include. 18:54:52 <fungot> boily: joku linuxista fnord cd mp3 fnord? 18:55:23 <boily> fungot: そうですね…　しょうがないなぁ… 18:55:23 <fungot> boily: eg? with code in the backtrace 18:55:37 <boily> fungot: eg. 18:55:38 <fungot> boily: most of these comments are ones i'd never consider fnord them by calling their product ice cream. fnord. 18:56:01 <boily> fungot: you should see the Source of the Wisdom. quite a few comments in therre. 18:58:27 <int-e> `learn The Procrastination is destined to rule the world... right after watching this last funny cat clip on youtube. 18:58:29 <HackEgo> Learned 'procrastination': The Procrastination is destined to rule the world... right after watching this last funny cat clip on youtube. 19:01:54 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:01:55 <HackEgo> szoup/A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit. 19:08:45 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 19:12:52 <boily> @ask rdococ rdhellococ! I will spontaneously describe you in the next minutes. would you like to have an autodescription instead? 19:12:52 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 19:13:30 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:13:30 <HackEgo> automatic squirrel feeder/Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them. 19:13:35 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:13:36 <HackEgo> lie/Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups. 19:13:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:13:53 <zzo38> That's good I like that too 19:14:10 <olsner> `? wisdom 19:14:10 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 19:14:22 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 19:14:45 <int-e> boily: you can play with \scalebox: \scalebox{2}[1]{zzo38:it will cause problems by being hilarious} 19:15:22 <boily> int-e: I found an interesting solution already :P 19:15:30 <boily> (will try yours in a few.) 19:17:10 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 19:17:21 <int-e> \emph{Eliot inverted cats, then Taneb stole his inversion.} <-- is "eliot" spelled that way intentionally? 19:17:58 <ais523> there are a bunch of misspelled elliotts around, they're mostly other people 19:18:31 <boily> int-e: yes. this is entirely volitional. 19:19:45 <int-e> `? the identity function 19:19:45 <HackEgo> the identity function? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:20:00 <int-e> `? identity function 19:20:00 <HackEgo> The identity function is a mockingbird. 19:20:47 <int-e> I thought M x = x x... Smullyan called I the Idiot bird. 19:23:40 <boily> ♪ DONG ♪ new PDF version! 19:25:41 <ais523> the identity function isn't a mockingbird 19:25:51 <ais523> wisdom's just lying, as normal 19:26:36 <doesthiswork> has anyone heard of the language Toadskin? I just found a reference to it in speculative grammarian and it appears to consist of the characters :;.><+-vxVX http://specgram.com/CLI.2/04.davis.acquisition.html 19:26:44 <int-e> `? wisdom 19:26:44 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 19:26:46 <boily> meanwhile, there's an interesting typo on wikipédia's article on haiku: “...even to the point of occasionally end-stopping a phrase with a shōjoshi (少女詩 sentence ending particle)...” 19:27:23 <boily> doesthiswork: VX? http://www.reddit.com/r/vxjunkies ? 19:28:24 <ais523> doesthiswork: I've heard of it, but I can't remember details 19:28:41 <ais523> doesthiswork: looks like the wiki knows: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Toadskin 19:28:44 <boily> instead of a 終助詞 (shūjoshi: end particle), they wrote 少女詩 (shōjoshi: small girl poem). 19:29:09 <ais523> it seems to be brainfuck, but with Forth's : and ; instructions 19:29:14 <ais523> which is at least more interesting than most BF derivatives 19:30:40 <doesthiswork> I wonder why they chose that particular esoteric language to use. 19:31:03 <ais523> (the vxVX aren't part of the language but because you have : and ; you can define them) 19:32:07 <ais523> how do nested : and ; work in Forth? 19:32:27 <ais523> is it possible to do flow control entirely with them by continuously redefining commands later in the program, or is there some sort of entropy issue? 19:32:37 <ais523> like, can you construct an infinite loop with them 19:36:54 <nys> well in ordinary forth you can't nest : ; 19:36:56 <zzo38> You can't nest : and ; in Forth 19:37:14 <Koen__> isn't it weird that > is pop and < is push? 19:37:21 <nys> because the action of : is to allot space for a new word and switch to compilation mode 19:37:31 <ais523> oh, that's disappointing :-( 19:37:37 <nys> just like how " can't be nested in bash 19:37:51 <zzo38> When executing, the : reads another word and begins a new definition and then enter compile mode, and then the ; compiles EXIT and then goes back to execute mode 19:38:25 <ais523> " can be nested in INTERCAL :-P 19:38:43 <boily> INTERCAL can do everything. 19:38:46 <ais523> so what does Forth do if it sees an ; while in execute mode? 19:38:56 <zzo38> I think it depend on the implementation 19:38:59 <boily> Koen__: Khelloen__! long time no see! 19:39:01 -!- augur has joined. 19:39:07 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:39:13 <Koen__> bhelloily 19:39:18 <zzo38> Some implementations might treat it as an error like because it is not defined 19:39:37 <Koen__> to be honest my irc client sucks so most of the times I'm too lazy to go on irc 19:40:08 <Elronnd> Then get a better client 19:40:50 <zzo38> I didn't like the other IRC client either that is why I wrote my own one (which still isn't quite best though) 19:44:05 <int-e> . o O ( There are IRC clients other than irssi? Blasphemy! ) 19:44:36 <zzo38> Yes I think there is many different kinds 19:44:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: dinner). 19:51:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:02:28 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:02:40 <mroman_> fnord 20:02:46 <ais523> int-e: I use Konversation; and IIRC, zzo38 uses a client that's basically the raw IRC protocol but with syntax highlighting 20:02:46 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:02:46 <HackEgo> ​Å/Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters. 20:02:55 <ais523> and maybe some way to type "PRIVMSG #esoteric :" quickly? 20:03:01 <ais523> `wisdom 20:03:01 <HackEgo> eurovision/Eurovision is the European way of looking at the world. For some reason it involves a lot of cheesy singing. 20:03:09 <shachaf> zzo38: Is that true? 20:04:05 <int-e> ais523: fwiw, I have used xchat, but it didn't scale to more than 6 or 7 channels for me... 20:04:29 <zzo38> shachaf: Is what true? 20:04:38 <shachaf> zzo38: You use the IRC client ais523 describes? 20:04:49 <zzo38> Yes, mostly. 20:04:56 <ais523> I dont know the details 20:05:44 <zzo38> At the beginning of a line if a space-bar is pushed it automatically type "PRIVMSG #esoteric :" or whatever the current channel happens to be set to (if there is no current channel, it just beeps and won't actually type a space.) 20:06:05 <ais523> oh, that makes sense 20:06:13 <zzo38> There are a few other features too though, such as macros, and masking passwords 20:12:05 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 20:16:52 <int-e> @type (join . join, join . fmap join) 20:16:54 <lambdabot> (Monad m, Monad m1) => (m (m (m a)) -> m a, m1 (m1 (m1 a1)) -> m1 a1) 20:24:28 -!- Nihilumbra has joined. 20:25:05 <Nihilumbra> if you say "whale oil beef hooked" really fast it sounds like "well ill be fucked" in an irish accent 20:25:13 <Nihilumbra> fun facts 20:27:44 <int-e> xxx... 20:28:09 <Nihilumbra> did you try it out int-e 20:31:08 <mroman_> I'm a barbie girl, in a barbie world... 20:31:38 <int-e> mroman_: oops I did it again! 20:32:13 <int-e> Nihilumbra: No, what I meant is that the very same idea underlies many occurrences of "xxx" 20:32:37 <b_jonas> ais523: by the way, I read the C++ union rules (most of it, anyway), and it's better than I thought 20:32:50 <Nihilumbra> xxx is liquer right? 20:32:58 <mroman_> What's Firefox's new "Leseansicht"? 20:33:01 <b_jonas> it's not as easy as I thought to accidentally write code that silently compiles but doesn't work than I thought 20:33:15 <Nihilumbra> lenshars? 20:33:32 <mroman_> "Reader view" 20:33:39 <mroman_> esolangs.org is blank in reader view 20:33:40 <ais523> "lese" = reading, "sicht" = sight, "an" is a connective 20:34:10 <int-e> "reader mode"? 20:34:13 <Nihilumbra> yeah 20:34:17 <mroman_> hm. 20:34:19 <Nihilumbra> it does something 20:34:20 <mroman_> ok It needs javascript 20:34:45 <Nihilumbra> everything needs javascript mroman_ hth 20:35:34 <mroman_> Just because life gave someone Lemons isn't a good enough justification to make JavaScript out of it 20:35:50 <Nihilumbra> they used lime 20:36:33 <int-e> mroman_: did you know that Firfox' UI is written in Javascript and XML files (XUL)? 20:36:44 <int-e> `? firfox 20:36:45 <HackEgo> firfox? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:36:53 <int-e> pity. 20:38:15 <mroman_> Well... 20:38:19 <mroman_> The idea isn't too bad 20:38:23 <mroman_> just the JavaScript part 20:39:18 <Nihilumbra> blasphemy 20:39:42 <mroman_> I'm the worlds greatest blasphemist. 20:40:23 <mroman_> Did you know that just by listening on the radio to the past doing the Urbi et Orbi you will be forgiven all your sins? 20:40:27 <Nihilumbra> heresy? 20:40:28 <int-e> Ok, the feature is called "reader view". 20:40:46 <mroman_> It is. 20:41:03 <int-e> fungot: Is Nihilumbra your evil twin? 20:41:03 <fungot> int-e: and you don't even have to aware that it was 20:41:07 <mroman_> *pope 20:41:14 <zzo38> I am a heretic too 20:41:21 <coppro> ais523: did you hear about the new MP2 low%? 20:41:40 <int-e> fungot: please clarify 20:41:40 <fungot> int-e: got it. 20:41:44 <coppro> it's not technically an improvement in terms of %, but a much, much easier way to get MBI was found 20:41:46 <int-e> fungot: please clarify *to us* 20:41:46 <fungot> int-e: i suspend to disk most of the commercial apps i work on a brainfuck interpreter fails to be a pointer to that url. i'll bookmark it. traffic caps are on at this hour, and they have so much mass that you throw off earth's orbit and we go flying into the sun. 20:41:48 <zzo38> Because, I do not agree much of the stuff of beliefs of Roman Catholics. 20:42:02 <ais523> coppro: yes 20:42:07 <ais523> oh 20:42:23 <mroman_> It's hard being an Atheist without being a Blasphemist as well 20:42:24 <ais523> I heard about someome doing it speedrun-style 20:42:27 <mroman_> although it would technically be possible. 20:42:30 <ais523> the low%, that is 20:42:43 <coppro> yes, because of hte improvement in the route, it became runnable as a speedrun 20:42:45 <ais523> i.e. single segment and aiming to go quickly 20:42:51 <coppro> miles did a hard mode run of it 20:42:56 <zzo38> mroman_: To me it doesn't seem that someone who is atheist is necessarily blasphemy too 20:43:06 <coppro> and someone did it yesterday on normal as part of a marathon 20:43:36 <coppro> so you know how you need to transition rooms when traveling OoB in the Prime games? 20:43:46 -!- lleu has joined. 20:43:58 <mroman_> zzo38: You're only a blasphemist if you ridicule religious things. 20:44:04 <coppro> if you hit a cannon in the inactive room, it will get very confused and leave you with MBI 20:44:27 <ais523> is that the old or new method? 20:44:29 <coppro> new 20:44:34 <coppro> old method relied on infinite speed 20:44:47 <coppro> there's a cannon in sanctuary that Miles figured out how to hit, and this skips a lot of the backtracking, plus the light show 20:45:03 <mroman_> I ridicule homeopathy 20:45:08 <mroman_> among other things 20:45:34 <mroman_> and I treat homeopathy as some sort of religious believe. 20:46:21 <Nihilumbra> bb 20:46:31 <coppro> the other improvement miles did compared to the previous 6% I saw is that he got ballsy with Quadraxis skip and unmorphed to cut across, rather than going the long way around 20:46:32 <mroman_> Because if you take some homeopathic remedy and it didn't work it's your fault 20:46:43 <mroman_> because logically if you don't believe in it HOW could it work. 20:46:51 <zzo38> I do not consider myself as an atheist though 20:47:03 <mroman_> I consider myself as a Blasphemist. 20:47:08 <mroman_> and a James Randi fan. 20:47:31 <int-e> `welcome 20:47:32 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 20:47:50 <zzo38> Actually, placebo effects can work even if you do not believe in it. 20:47:53 <int-e> phew, for a moment there I thought I was un the wrong channel... 20:47:55 <zzo38> `emoclew 20:47:55 <HackEgo> ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .>/gro.sgnalose//:ptth< :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW 20:48:02 <int-e> *on 20:48:02 <zzo38> O, it works backward too! 20:48:17 <zzo38> Now you have to work it sideways. 20:48:36 <int-e> zzo38: it's funny how it swaps ( and ) but not < and >. 20:48:44 <ais523> zzo38: there are a huge variety of welcome messages in HackEgo 20:48:53 <mroman_> `hellcome 20:48:54 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hellcome: not found 20:48:57 <mroman_> :( 20:49:13 <ais523> OK, idea: instead of `relcome being `relcome, you should have to write `welcome in rainbow colours 20:49:22 <coppro> ++ 20:49:48 <mroman_> Does science count as a religion? 20:49:51 <coppro> ais523: also this isn't speedrunning related, but you'll find it amusing. While in Japan I picked up Japanese copies of MegaMan Battle Network 6. I can't read Japanese, but I want to enjoy the postgame. 20:49:56 <zzo38> I don't think so 20:50:00 <int-e> `` sed -i 's/tr.*/tr \(\)\<\> \)\(\>\</' bin/emoclew 20:50:03 <HackEgo> No output. 20:50:07 <ais523> coppro: 6 is one of the better games in that series 20:50:20 <zzo38> Although, there are some problems with how science is done so might be consider like religion, but actually it isn't a religion, especially when done properly. 20:50:22 <int-e> meh. 20:50:26 <coppro> ais523: yes. I would say 3 > 2 > 6 20:50:31 <ais523> (also, the issue with the MMBN series is that it has excellent battle mechanics and doesn't really know what to do with the best of the ame) 20:50:33 <zzo38> I also don't like daylight saving time, but that doesn't seem to really have much to do with religion. 20:50:35 <ais523> *the rest of the game 20:50:44 <coppro> not sure how I feel about 1 vs. 5, 4 is clearly at the bottom 20:50:45 <int-e> `` sed -i 's/tr.*/tr \\\(\\\)\\\<\\\> \\\)\\\(\\\>\\\</' bin/emoclew 20:50:45 <ais523> coppro: you know, I think I'll agree with that 20:50:47 <HackEgo> No output. 20:50:49 <ais523> both parts 20:50:52 <shachaf> ais523: Did you update your thesis? 20:50:55 <ais523> I was about to say "not sure about 1 vs 5 but 4 is the worst" 20:50:59 <int-e> `emoclew 20:51:00 <HackEgo> ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .</gro.sgnalose//:ptth> :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW 20:51:02 <zzo38> Nevertheless I would want to know statistics about percentages of people of different kind of religion that like and don't like daylight saving time too 20:51:03 <ais523> shachaf: the deadline for the updates is early july 20:51:06 <mroman_> My religion is pretty much: "Accepting that not ever question can be answered or has yet a known answer but you need to search for answers, extend your answers, refine and correct your answers and never stop doing that" 20:51:10 <coppro> 5 is actually the only one I haven't beaten 20:51:32 <ais523> I'm currently reading the lists of corrections I have to make 20:51:40 <coppro> I've 100%ed only 2 and 3. Haven't done 4 because ugh, 5 because I haven't beaten it, and 6 because it's English 20:51:42 <zzo38> mroman_: I agree with that, but do not consider it as religion. 20:51:43 <Nihilumbra> I'm agnostic 20:51:54 -!- bb010g has joined. 20:51:59 <coppro> so now that I have Japanese copies I can actually postgame 6 20:52:02 <Nihilumbra> ¿¡ 20:52:05 <int-e> not nihilistic? 20:52:30 <boily> I'm Tanebventionist. 20:52:34 <zzo38> (Nevertheless, it is a thing that can involve religion, science, and philosophy.) 20:52:36 <coppro> ais523: you know about the English postgame in 6, right? 20:52:47 <ais523> coppro: no, I don't 20:52:49 <zzo38> (Science isn't perfect, but it it s the best we have. Mathematics is perfect, though.) 20:53:05 <Nihilumbra> haha int-e 20:53:20 <coppro> ais523: The post-game for 6 got cut significantly in the English version, down to a single area from I think 4 or 5. The reason is hilarious: with the English text, the game wouldn't fit on the cartridge 20:53:22 <Nihilumbra> but no my name is just there 20:53:39 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 20:53:42 <Nihilumbra> but not because nihil means nothing and umbra is a shadow an absence of something 20:53:43 <zzo38> I consider myself as panendeist 20:53:47 <Nihilumbra> so its nothing nothing 20:54:10 <oren> I prefer to call myself a pragmatist 20:54:42 <Nihilumbra> can you make contact though 20:54:57 <coppro> ais523: I should check in on the BN1 speedrunners 20:54:57 <mroman_> I just read that as Panendienst. 20:55:11 <coppro> they had made some nontrivial progress in manipulating the GMD RNG 20:55:12 <zzo38> mroman_: Which means what? 20:55:33 <coppro> though I think they'll never get it to the level of art that is Golden Sun 20:55:39 <oren> I'll worship a god if there's a immediately visible benefit (financial, social, etc...) 20:55:40 <mroman_> "breakdown service" 20:55:50 <mroman_> It's a service for when you have car troubles. 20:55:55 <int-e> Pannendienst, if that's supposed to be german? 20:56:04 <mroman_> Right. 20:56:15 <mroman_> *Pannendienst 20:56:27 <Nihilumbra> if god exists he's/it/she is probably to busy to give a hoot about earth 20:56:49 <Nihilumbra> seeing as its a very small percentage of the observable universw 20:57:11 <coppro> I can't find a link at the moment, but GS plans out every single "random" encounter for the entire run. 20:57:19 <oren> Nihilumbra: but intervention froma god isn't the only effect of worship. 20:57:43 <int-e> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=1857 seems relevant 20:57:57 <mroman_> Well 20:58:01 <mroman_> God is testing us 20:58:03 <zzo38> I am not a traditional theist or deist though, therefore I don't take those arguments. Yes, the Earth is a very small and very minor part of the universe, but it is still something. 20:58:05 <mroman_> through wars and stuf 20:58:08 <mroman_> *stuff 20:58:10 <oren> there are immediately obvious effects as to who likes you, who doesn't 20:58:13 <Nihilumbra> if I die and I see god 20:58:15 <mroman_> it's all part of a much bigger picture 20:58:20 <Nihilumbra> I'm going to punch him 20:58:26 <Nihilumbra> and ask why he keeps hiding 20:58:49 * int-e sidles off to find his Dogma DVD... 20:58:49 <zzo38> The biggest Greed is wanting an afterlife. (Well, not quite: the actual biggest greed is wanting an afterlife and taking everything with you) 20:59:35 <Nihilumbra> the biggest greed is an afterlife with even more stuff than you would perpetually need 20:59:53 <mroman_> why would you even want an afterlife 20:59:56 <mroman_> I mean 21:00:04 <mroman_> living forever has got to be boring 21:00:30 <Nihilumbra> mroman_: I would like to meet my ancestors 21:00:37 <Nihilumbra> that's about it 21:00:48 <Nihilumbra> then move on to a rebirth as a snail 21:00:59 <Nihilumbra> they have a pretty good life 21:01:02 <mroman_> I get that people want to see their dead relatives again. 21:01:11 <boily> I would like to have a nice afterlife without alcohol, so my skin remains smooth. 21:01:31 <Nihilumbra> your skin ain't smooth? 21:01:36 <Nihilumbra> use lotion 21:01:57 <zzo38> People, because they do not understand, call GOD as a "Person" or something like that, or various other things which aren't so sensible. 21:02:36 <mroman_> There's a hail storm here 21:02:39 <zzo38> The proper words to describe GOD don't exist (and we can't easily make it to exist since nobody would know what it is), therefore we have to use wrong words. 21:02:40 <mroman_> awesome. 21:02:44 <zzo38> There is no other choice. 21:02:54 <boily> mroman_: what was your here again? 21:03:23 <mroman_> Winterthur, Switzerland, Europe, Earth, Solar System, MilkyWay, Universe No. 9 21:03:31 <Nihilumbra> god if in correct in it not being a douche canoe would appear to you in the shape you are most comfortable with 21:03:47 <zzo38> Of course, I don't know either. I only approximate; all of religious/theology/etc are only being approximate. 21:03:54 <Nihilumbra> no. 9?? 21:04:09 <Nihilumbra> were the other 8 better 21:04:14 <mroman_> Nope 21:04:19 <mroman_> God just needed 9 tries to get it right. 21:04:34 <mroman_> the other ones are probably weird. 21:04:39 <mroman_> or collapsing. 21:05:04 <Nihilumbra> lol 21:05:04 <mroman_> assuming God created the universe, and not just earth 21:05:14 <mroman_> I'm not sure what the bible *exactly* says about that. 21:05:36 <Nihilumbra> he just created earth as it were 21:05:43 <Nihilumbra> so he isn't all powerful 21:05:46 <fizzie> Well, also the "heavens". 21:05:52 <mroman_> and hell. 21:05:58 <zzo38> I don't believe that kind of old mythology anyways 21:06:07 <Nihilumbra> lets just assume his mother did the universe thing 21:06:13 <zzo38> "Created" isn't even the right word, but there aren't any better words! 21:06:19 <Nihilumbra> and god created three dimensions of existence 21:06:32 <Nihilumbra> earth heaven hell 21:06:34 <fizzie> "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", starts the NIV translation. 21:06:42 <Nihilumbra> pls sir 21:06:47 <mroman_> well 21:06:56 <mroman_> God must have forseen that some people eventually stop believing in him 21:07:04 <mroman_> why would he create humans capable of not believing in him? 21:07:06 <zzo38> Universe is made out of mathematics. There may be an infinte number of possible universes. 21:07:17 <mroman_> Why didn't he just create humans in a way so that they ultimatively always will obey him? 21:07:25 <zzo38> People misunderstand the nature of God 21:07:27 <Nihilumbra> we are in theory atm right? 21:07:28 <fizzie> mroman_: I guess that might've been boring? 21:07:35 <mroman_> Also why did he even bother to create humans? 21:07:56 <zzo38> (I don't understand either, but I believe in approximations which I believe to be better approximations than others do) 21:07:56 <mroman_> That's actually a much better question :) 21:08:12 <Nihilumbra> I was told that god created humans with free will but told them what to do until that whole apple crisis 21:08:15 <mroman_> Why *did* he create earth and life? 21:08:22 <zzo38> Therefore your questions are wrong, in my opinion. 21:08:36 <fizzie> Some people write brainfuck, others create worlds and life. 21:08:43 <zzo38> (That doesn't mean it isn't worth asking; how do you know it is wrong unless you ask?) 21:08:52 <Nihilumbra> carpenter turned wizard 21:08:56 <Nihilumbra> is Jesus 21:09:06 <mroman_> Maybe we are just an esoteric world among many other more reasonable worlds 21:09:25 <mroman_> Maybe we are the brainfuck world of all worlds 21:09:33 <b_jonas> No look. God created nothing, but that was a brilliant move of his, because then from that the empty set sprang onto existence on the zeroth day, then the set containing the empty set sprang into existance on the first day, etc, and eventually all sets and all of mathematics and physics come into existance some day. "day" isn't to be taken literally. 21:09:37 <Nihilumbra> we are the malbolge 21:09:48 <boily> mroman_: I am of the impression that it's currently the other way around. Almost all other universes are brainfuckiest than ours. 21:09:57 <boily> Nihilumbra: that'd be interesting! 21:10:06 <Nihilumbra> heh 21:10:34 <Nihilumbra> time is an illusion made by man 21:10:46 <zzo38> b_jonas: In my opinion that seem closer than how the Bible and other stuff says, but still very wrong. 21:10:48 <Nihilumbra> but yeah god is a weirdo 21:11:09 <zzo38> Time is a function of the universe, but actually spacetime is, not time and space. 21:11:13 <Nihilumbra> the bible is a very old book that has been mistranslated multiple tines 21:11:26 <Nihilumbra> times* 21:11:42 <zzo38> That's true, it is an old book. 21:11:49 <int-e> right now, she's unconscious in a skee ball player's body in some hospital... 21:12:08 <Nihilumbra> ? 21:14:25 <zzo38> I don't believe in the personal kind of God. 21:14:51 <zzo38> My own kind of believe it is very confusing and unusual compared to others 21:15:07 <zzo38> Someone told me to make up the Church of Four Concentric Circles 21:16:35 <b_jonas> Church of Four Concentric Circles? what's that? and how's that ever going to be projective invariant? 21:17:06 <zzo38> The circles are just a diagram. 21:20:43 <zzo38> The proper diagram would be impossible to draw, therefore I have to use the one that I made like this instead. 21:25:32 <olsner> I do like the idea of a religion based on a diagram that's impossible to draw 21:25:36 <zzo38> (I was also once told that I should earn the Ig Nobel prize for proving it impossible to use complex numbers in accounting.) 21:25:56 <zzo38> (However, I forget the proof.) 21:26:10 <zzo38> olsner: O, you do? OK, that's good then 21:30:02 <mroman_> boily: BLASPHEMY! 21:30:02 <zzo38> Such diagram, also, is just the metaphor. 21:30:13 <mroman_> My universe is burlesque 21:30:34 <mroman_> which is going to be obsoleted by Gulf 21:30:35 <mroman_> for that matter 21:31:00 <mroman_> but I'm most strongly against religion because of it's risk for violence. 21:31:05 <mroman_> *its 21:31:39 <mroman_> It's so hot here that the slightest physical activity makes you sweat like a pig :( 21:31:51 <mroman_> 29 degrees room temperature 21:31:54 <mroman_> yay \o/ 21:31:54 <myndzi> | 21:31:54 <myndzi> /| 21:32:16 <mroman_> at least the hail storm will bring some cold 21:32:32 <mroman_> (where cold probably means it's going to cool down to 25 degrees room temperature) 21:35:32 <zzo38> It does have risk of violence, but so do other things. It is possible to do good things and bad things with various stuff, too. 21:37:41 <olsner> I like to think that faith and religion are separate, faith (= you believe whatever you want) is fine and dandy, but when you organize it into a religion it starts to get dangerous 21:38:32 <olsner> I also like to take a bath 21:38:52 <boily> @metar CYUL 21:38:53 <lambdabot> CYUL 072100Z 14012KT 30SM FEW150 OVC250 22/06 A2998 RMK AC2CS6 SLP151 DENSITY ALT 800FT 21:41:22 <zzo38> olsner: Ah, OK, yes some people like to make this distinction. 21:42:30 <b_jonas> isn't there actually a three-way distinction rather than two-way? 21:43:09 <b_jonas> three-way between, I think, beliefs, religion, and church. 21:43:23 <zzo38> Yes, there is that distinction too 21:44:09 <b_jonas> I could be getting this wrong though 21:44:13 <b_jonas> I don't think too much about it 21:44:29 <b_jonas> because I don't much care 21:48:00 <coppro> b_jonas: I think you could eliminate the church/religion distinction if you wanted 21:48:10 <coppro> a church is really just a sect 21:48:19 <coppro> and you can view sects as different but similar religions 21:50:25 -!- hilquias` has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:53:35 -!- TieSoul has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 21:54:59 -!- TieSoul has joined. 21:56:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:56:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: bedtime). 21:57:52 <int-e> @metar lowi 21:57:52 <lambdabot> LOWI 072150Z AUTO 26014KT 220V290 9999 -TSRA //////CB FEW038 BKN046 19/14 Q1023 22:05:22 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 22:05:42 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:08:04 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 22:21:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:35:15 <oerjan> boily: i believe Dulnes is part of the collective nick-unstable entity currently mostly known as Nihilumbra (and whatever you do, don't assume they're the same person hth) 22:36:18 -!- toxolotl1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:36:24 <oerjan> (not in public, anyway) 22:36:57 <oerjan> `quote dulnes 22:36:58 <HackEgo> 1223) <Dulnes> Anyways i actually do have food in my house and this time its not coffee based 22:37:58 <oerjan> boily: i'm also implying e may not get that lambdabot message 22:38:04 <shachaf> a jerk by any other name 22:39:24 <oerjan> shachaf: was that necessary 22:40:56 <shachaf> is anything necessary? 22:42:11 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:42:48 <oerjan> <int-e> Content-Type: application/binary <-- not helpful <-- the hg browser at some point stopped serving files properly for security reasons. 22:43:05 <oerjan> i.e. that link used to work when it was added. 22:43:52 <oerjan> shachaf: not if you don't care about social consequences 22:44:39 <shachaf> should i make fun of them obliquely while they're not in the channel, like the rest of you, rather than directly? 22:44:50 <shachaf> or should i harass them in /msg, like they do? 22:45:05 <oerjan> oh that. 22:45:27 <oerjan> is e still doing it 22:46:17 <oerjan> *sigh* 22:46:52 <shachaf> not lately, unless they happen to be doing it from one of the nicks i /ignored 22:47:19 -!- augur has joined. 22:47:36 <oerjan> good 22:50:03 <b_jonas> stupid webpage uses css rules to crop some of the page unreadable 22:50:16 <b_jonas> I can fix it on client side, but why do I have to? 22:54:12 * oerjan hates that too 22:54:28 <b_jonas> whoa, webpage has en_UK and en_US localization (they might be identical though) 22:55:44 <oerjan> one thing i hate is pages with wide margins designed such that i see _less_ of the text when zooming in, because the margins grow instead of the text... 22:56:35 <oerjan> (well the text font grows, but not the textbox) 22:56:39 <zzo38> I think they should just use the default margins, and then the width adjusts with the width of the window. 22:57:17 <b_jonas> yes, they should just use default for most things 22:57:29 <oerjan> zzo38: well of course there are plenty of sites that do it the reasonable way, i'm talking about broken sites 22:58:20 <zzo38> For everything, as far as I am concerned, you should use the client's default unless you have a good reason not to (such as: if you need different colors of text, set both the foreground and background colors; otherwise don't set any colors) 22:58:55 <oerjan> also there's this stupid newspaper comic page that uses my zoom level to decide that i need to be redirected to their mobile site - so to visit it, i to first turn off my zoom and then rezoom after the page has loaded. 22:59:12 <oerjan> *i have to 23:01:05 <b_jonas> "The weight limit does not apply to electric wheelchairs, musical instruments or animals in the cargo hold." -- oh! do they allow elephants? dragons? 23:01:05 <oerjan> i wish they'd somehow managed to made the web standards such that sites _couldn't_ make assumptions about the client devices 23:01:19 <b_jonas> oh right, they have a size limit too 23:01:57 <b_jonas> so a child elephant might fit, but a dragon definitely not 23:02:40 <oerjan> if you've got a dragon, why are you taking a plane tmns 23:03:11 <b_jonas> oerjan: flying might take too much time or energy otherwise. a plane is faster. 23:03:15 -!- nszceta has joined. 23:03:18 <b_jonas> at least for long distances. 23:03:27 <b_jonas> but yeah, you probably don't need it if you have a dragon 23:03:29 <b_jonas> though... 23:03:35 <b_jonas> if it's not a tame dragon, but a subdued one 23:03:45 <b_jonas> then maybe you can't direct the dragon to fly 23:03:59 <boily> how many elephants in a dragon? 23:03:59 <zzo38> Gopher menus work better it doesn't need to make any assumptions about the client other than it can display the menu and text files; the client decides what way need to display work best for the device. 23:04:14 <boily> how many gophers in an elephant? 23:05:00 <b_jonas> boily: size or weight? 23:05:53 <boily> I think a gopher's density is approximatively the same enough to that of an elephant to be irrelevant. 23:06:08 <b_jonas> boily: in size, a dragon (gigantic) is two size categories over an elephant (large), so dragon is 4 times as large in linear size, 64 times as large in volume, but that's a very inaccurate approximation 23:06:34 <b_jonas> in weight, the difference is only like a factor of 2 23:08:22 <boily> I'd've guessed the elephant-to-dragon ratio to be higher, but what do I know, I've never seen neither of them. 23:08:37 <b_jonas> nethack weights are unrealistic 23:08:39 * boily needs pretzels 23:08:50 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:08:58 <b_jonas> they're more about how difficult the item is to carry than about how much it weighs 23:09:22 <b_jonas> and dragons are absolutely impossible to carry, so it doesn't matter much how much they weigh 23:09:34 <b_jonas> it does have a little significance, but rarely comes up 23:09:56 <oerjan> boily: is it a pretzing issue? 23:13:41 -!- augur has joined. 23:15:56 -!- Nihilumbra has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:19:10 * boily mapoles oerjan 23:19:32 <oerjan> ow 23:19:35 <boily> it was a sudden urge. also bought a milk carton for my cereals. 23:19:42 <shachaf> boily: are you sure you don't need some delicious rice 23:19:57 <boily> oerjan: it was only a light mapole. 23:20:17 <oerjan> is that similar to a lightsabre? 23:20:22 <boily> shachaf: ha ha ^^ sorry, no. I already packed tonight's leftovers for tomorrow. 23:21:16 <boily> oerjan: think of a mapole as a prototypesaber hth 23:21:22 <oerjan> ah 23:21:33 <boily> shachaf: just how much did you make? 23:22:11 <shachaf> boily: maybe three or four times as much as necessary 23:24:16 <boily> oerjan: what'd'you have for supper/breakfast/whatever? 23:25:19 <quintopia> helloily 23:25:23 <quintopia> i had greek supper 23:25:33 <oerjan> ham salad (not made by me) 23:26:02 <boily> quinthellopia. souvlakis, gyros, tzatziki, fternooners and other Greek classics? 23:26:13 <quintopia> is ham salad like chicken salad s/chicken/ham/ or is it like regular salad with ham on? 23:26:24 <boily> chicken salad? 23:26:39 <quintopia> i love souvlaki, but no. commodity chain greek. salad and chicken and pasta salad. 23:26:51 <oerjan> quintopia: the former, i think? what's the difference anyway... 23:26:58 <shachaf> oerjan: what sorts of things do you make 23:27:06 <quintopia> oerjan: mainly that the latter has lettuce 23:27:12 <quintopia> and dressing 23:27:24 <oerjan> shachaf: sliced bread and pizza 23:27:29 <shachaf> what's with salad and lettuce? 23:27:39 <shachaf> apparently some people think that a salad needs to have lettuce 23:27:53 <oerjan> quintopia: oh. the latter, then. it's a bit confusing because no:salat means _both_ salad and lettuce. 23:27:55 <shachaf> in many cases and many salads, lettuce is not a big improvement 23:28:10 <boily> lettuce is depressing. especially iceberg. bleh. 23:28:13 <b_jonas> nah, they specifically says “live animals (dogs and cats only)” in the rules 23:28:13 <quintopia> shachaf: regular salad has leafy greens. if it has no leafy greens, it is not regular 23:28:18 <b_jonas> so no elephant 23:28:23 <b_jonas> not even baby 23:28:39 <boily> `quote topologically 23:28:39 <HackEgo> 396) <oklofok> god created the natural numbers, the rationals were done by man and the work was finally completed (topologically) by satan himself \ 1135) <boily> topologically speaking, dogs and cats are the same animals. 23:28:52 <shachaf> I had regular salad without lettuce today. 23:28:57 <boily> b_jonas: re quote 1135: elephants can be included hth 23:29:10 <boily> quintopia: what's your stance about spinach? 23:29:11 <quintopia> non-regular salads include: potato salad, cole slaw, chicken salad, tuna salad, and (the anglo-american version of) ham salad 23:29:20 <quintopia> boily: it's a wonderful thing. 23:29:27 <b_jonas> quintopia: non-regular in what sense? 23:29:28 <boily> yé :D 23:29:43 <boily> quintopia: you should try making palak paneer. it's easy and delicious. 23:29:44 <quintopia> (unless it is shredded and boiled. then yecch. fresh only plox.) 23:29:56 <tswett> Around here, the word "salad" by itself pretty much always means a salad with lettuce or spinach, but there are also phrases such as "egg salad", "pasta salad", "tuna salad", "Jello salad", and so forth referring to things without either. 23:29:58 <oerjan> quintopia: the same place also has chicken salad, which also has lettuce hth 23:30:05 <boily> quintopia: boiled is bad. blanched good. 23:30:13 <shachaf> What about a salad with, say, tomatoes and cucumbers and onions and mint and that sort of thing? 23:30:17 <shachaf> Is that regular? No lettuce. 23:30:26 <quintopia> egg salad and pasta salad are alsxo good examples of non-regular salad 23:30:45 <quintopia> oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham_salad 23:30:50 * oerjan suddenly starts thinking the word "salad" looks fake 23:30:54 <tswett> I think I'm going to refer to everything as a type of "salad" from now on. 23:31:04 <tswett> Now I'm suddenly thinking the word "salad" looks Arabic. 23:31:17 <boily> al-salād or something? 23:31:22 <b_jonas> hah 23:31:25 <quintopia> polk salad annie 23:31:25 <tswett> Yeah, just like that. 23:31:25 <pikhq> Though it's pretty Latin. 23:31:38 <shachaf> you might be thinking of "salat" hth 23:31:42 <b_jonas> for cabin (not cargo hold) transfer, “Up to three small puppies or very small kittens may be booked as one animal and must be transported in the same container in the cabin.” 23:31:52 <b_jonas> those aren't even topologically equivalent 23:32:10 <tswett> Chili is "bean salad". Cookies are "chocolate salad". Pizza is "pepperoni salad". 23:32:13 <quintopia> the container is topologically equivalent to the container that would carry one animal 23:32:44 <tswett> I'm not sure the topology of a physical object is really well-defined. 23:32:44 <quintopia> tswett: no. just no. salad must contain a variety of ingredients (at least one a vegetable) tossed together in a bowl 23:32:59 <tswett> quintopia: Jello salad doesn't contain any vegetables. 23:33:04 <boily> I like vegetarian chili. beans, tomatoes, onions, bell peppers, tofu, olives... 23:33:14 <boily> tswett: itym aspic hth. 23:33:19 <shachaf> Bell peppers are the scow of vegetables. 23:33:24 <quintopia> tswett: true. s/vegetable/fresh plant matter/ 23:33:24 <tswett> What's a scow? 23:33:28 <boily> `? scow 23:33:29 <HackEgo> scow? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:33:42 <tswett> Apparently it's "a wide-beamed sailing dinghy". 23:33:43 <quintopia> boily: ew 23:33:46 <shachaf> "the scow of X" usually means something like the worst specimen of X. 23:33:51 <boily> shachaf: peppers of all varieties and cultivars are the tits. you can do everything with them! 23:34:00 <quintopia> boily++ 23:34:04 <pikhq> I advise against using them on tits. 23:34:08 <oerjan> <quintopia> oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham_salad <-- wtf is that 23:34:18 <tswett> I like red peppers. I don't understand the purpose of green peppers. 23:34:23 <quintopia> oerjan: what comes to mind first when you say ham salad 23:34:42 <boily> quintopia: you don't like tofu and olives? 23:35:22 <quintopia> oerjan: "mayonnaise-bound meat salads" 23:35:25 <pikhq> tswett: A green bell pepper, though not at all spicy, still has quite a distinct flavor. 23:35:38 <quintopia> boily: no, not really. 23:36:29 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salad_cream ? 23:36:32 <shachaf> what's all this about? 23:36:33 <boily> tswett: green peppers are cheaper than other colours in groceries here. that's one of their purposes. 23:36:48 <boily> (also, to make proper all dressed pizza, you need the green ones.) 23:36:55 -!- nszceta has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 23:37:08 <pikhq> It is quite reasonable to use in and of itself, though obviously no substitute for other varieties. 23:37:09 <quintopia> boily: you need the full stoplight for a proper all-dressed pizza 23:37:12 <shachaf> Speaking of emulsions, I made mayonnaise the other day. 23:37:15 <shachaf> It was great. 23:37:49 <oerjan> <shachaf> Bell peppers are the scow of vegetables. <-- blasphemy! 23:38:12 <quintopia> oerjan: keep up here. 23:38:17 <shachaf> Really, there are many foods that I dislike to lesser or greater extents. 23:38:25 <shachaf> But bell peppers are not negotiable. They ruin everything. 23:38:39 <quintopia> pfft. 23:38:49 <shachaf> They have a terrible taste, their texture uncooked makes me want to vomit, their texture cooked is just disgusting. 23:38:50 <quintopia> at least they have flavor! 23:38:53 <shachaf> There's nothing good about them. 23:39:10 <shachaf> They can ruin any dish. Even if you take them out, their flavor sticks around to ruin it. 23:39:11 <boily> GO TEAM BELL PEPPERS! *pom poms* 23:39:24 <quintopia> one good thing about them is that if we have a pizza party and shachaf attends, they can make it so there is more pizza for the rest of us 23:39:43 <pikhq> I wonder if this is something like cilantro or something. 23:40:00 <shachaf> quintopia: Usually people do that by putting animals on the pizza. 23:40:05 <boily> pikhq: sounds like it. people I know who dislike bell peppers really dislike them. 23:40:06 <quintopia> i found out tonight my sister thinks basil ruins pasta salad 23:40:17 <boily> quintopia: WHAT? 23:40:19 <quintopia> shachaf: oh okay. that'd work too. 23:40:23 <tswett> Hmmmm, I want a place to paste a table. 23:40:27 <tswett> (inb4 "in the dining room") 23:40:40 <b_jonas> quintopia: that's strange 23:40:45 <quintopia> but you might get paste all over the china cabinet 23:40:52 <quintopia> i recommend pasting in the garage or shop 23:40:59 <quintopia> then carrying the table back to the dining room 23:41:45 <oerjan> <quintopia> oerjan: what comes to mind first when you say ham salad <-- i suppose my brain has different slots for "salad as whole meal" and "salad as condiment". in any case, not that thing on wikipedia's picture. if it were a condiment salad, i'd expect still visible strips of ham in it. 23:41:46 <quintopia> b_jonas: i know. basil is wonderful. 23:42:11 <quintopia> oerjan: it can be made that way. there is some variety. 23:42:41 <quintopia> as long as they are small enough to be chewy instead of ...stringy? 23:43:28 <quintopia> so who wants to play some don't starve together? 23:43:55 <shachaf> I played it and then I died. 23:43:58 <shachaf> So I stopped. 23:44:05 <shachaf> I think I was eaten by a grue. 23:44:17 <quintopia> she has a name oyu know 23:44:34 <shachaf> I don't know, because I stopped playing the game a few seconds before being eaten. 23:44:46 <quintopia> good job with the fire making 23:44:55 <shachaf> In fact I still have a save file where it's dark and the screen has jagged lined around the edges and I'm about to die. 23:44:59 <shachaf> But at least I didn't starve. 23:45:05 <quintopia> her name is Charlie 23:45:07 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:45:12 <quintopia> http://dont-starve-game.wikia.com/wiki/Charlie 23:45:54 <tswett> Ooh, I remember Don't Starve. 23:46:00 <tswett> I wonder if I still have a way to access it. 23:46:08 <tswett> Probably. 23:57:48 -!- augur has joined. 23:59:55 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2015-06-08: 00:01:39 <Melvar> Yay quickcheck. 00:19:07 <zzo38> I like the Caesar salad without dressing on, at some places; at other places the salad isn't as good. 00:21:02 <quintopia> it's not a caesar salad if it has no dressing. 00:21:16 <zzo38> To me it is 00:21:35 <quintopia> sort of like it's not a caesar salad without dried salted anchovy 00:21:56 <quintopia> you can call it "Caesar" salad. a Caesomorph. 00:22:00 <shachaf> except i don't eat fish 00:22:27 <zzo38> I just put lettuce, cheese, crouton, that's good enough 00:22:43 <quintopia> i'm not judging shachaf. there's nothing wrong with a "Caesar salad". it's just not as good as it could be. 00:23:20 <shachaf> Whichever the way the wind blows, / Whichever the way the world goes, / Is perfectly all right with me! 00:30:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Bitoven]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43183&oldid=43178 * 173.25.21.218 * (+0) fixed a small error 00:32:38 <oerjan> <zzo38> "Created" isn't even the right word, but there aren't any better words! <-- istr hebrew has a special word for "create" that _only_ applies to God hth 00:33:17 <zzo38> O, it does? I don't know Hebrew language much 00:33:24 <oerjan> so in hebrew, it's by definition the right word, but it might not be entirely clear what it means. 00:34:16 <zzo38> Yes, I can see that. 00:34:28 <oerjan> i don't know hebrew much either but i've seen it discussed somewhere. 00:37:53 <boily> quintopia: I don't think I've ever had the real deal. is it good? is it worth it? 00:38:26 <boily> (whichever your answer, probably going to try it out of sheer curiosity.) 00:55:13 <zzo38> When I try to open a .XI file with multiple samples in OpenMPT, it automatically discards the samples that aren't used in the keymap. How to fix this? 01:37:53 -!- Herbalist has joined. 01:56:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Underload]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43184&oldid=43115 * Esowiki201529A * (+142) /* Underload to Gibberish */ new section 01:59:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Underload]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43185&oldid=43184 * Esowiki201529A * (+84) /* Underload to Gibberish */ 02:00:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 02:01:58 -!- boily has quit (Quit: JAVANESE CHICKEN). 02:02:37 -!- Maria has joined. 02:04:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Underload]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43186&oldid=43185 * Esowiki201529A * (+36) /* Underload to Gibberish */ 02:07:50 -!- Maria has left. 02:20:58 -!- hilquias has joined. 02:21:20 <oren> My custom scaler is pretty much done now 02:25:04 -!- KnightArm0 has joined. 02:35:23 -!- KnightArm0 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:37:58 <zzo38> What is that custom scaler? 02:38:44 -!- lemurian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:42:23 <oren> A customized sclaing alcorithm for emulated games 02:42:34 <oren> I'm modding it into mednafen 03:04:35 <zzo38> Finally I got vector synthesis to work properly in AmigaMML and XISYNTH. 03:09:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:22:06 <zzo38> Well, not quite! 03:25:12 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:26:03 -!- gde33 has quit (*.net *.split). 03:26:05 -!- shikhin has quit (*.net *.split). 03:26:05 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 03:26:05 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 03:26:05 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 03:26:11 -!- nortti has joined. 03:26:14 -!- TieSoul has quit (*.net *.split). 03:26:15 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 03:26:22 -!- ineiros has joined. 03:26:23 -!- atehwa has joined. 03:26:30 -!- TieSoul has joined. 03:26:30 -!- olsner has joined. 03:26:40 -!- shikhin has joined. 03:27:04 -!- gde33 has joined. 03:29:38 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 03:41:48 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 03:45:42 -!- Wright_ has joined. 03:45:42 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:50:26 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka. 03:50:39 -!- Lyka has left. 04:00:59 -!- adu_ has joined. 04:03:01 -!- augur has joined. 04:04:11 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:05:13 -!- augur_ has joined. 04:08:26 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:08:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:24:59 <oren> AAAAAA I can't get diagonals to work properly! 04:27:24 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 04:27:39 -!- password2 has joined. 04:28:17 <oren> http://postimg.org/image/5xgtpmiqh/ 04:30:31 <oren> ^ screenshot using my scaler, and the palette 77ccff 77cc00 007700 000000 ffcccc cccc00 990000 111100 04:32:08 <oren> it mostly looks ok, but I csn't figure out a good rule to make X look right 04:32:18 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:38:55 -!- lemurian has joined. 04:39:59 <oren> does anybody have an idea how to detect a patern like that? 04:41:34 -!- password2 has joined. 04:53:13 -!- Nihilumbra has joined. 04:53:56 <Nihilumbra> sweet Jesus 04:54:03 <zzo38> I don't know 04:58:34 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:58:34 <zzo38> Do you have anything to add here? https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/amigamml/wiki/XM_optimizations 04:58:39 <zzo38> (Or anything to remove?) 05:00:08 <Nihilumbra> what's that 05:00:34 <zzo38> Isn't it explaining it in there? 05:00:49 <Nihilumbra> Also Please don't assume I ever actually leave the channel anything that follows a name mention is logged down for 2 hours afterwarsa 05:00:57 <Nihilumbra> wards* 05:01:07 <Nihilumbra> let me look zzo38 05:02:08 <Nihilumbra> File size reduction 05:02:11 <Nihilumbra> lossless 05:02:12 <Jafet> oren: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scaling#2%C3%97SaI look interesting 05:02:23 <Nihilumbra> looks nice 05:10:44 <Nihilumbra> file reduction without dataloss zzo38 ? 05:12:16 -!- Decim has joined. 05:14:56 <Decim> Oh yeah I forgot irc still worked it was having bugs 05:15:23 <zzo38> Nihilumbra: Yes, to reduce a XM file size while the music will still be same way. 05:16:02 <Decim> or I was because I couldn't log because I forgot my password 05:16:08 <Nihilumbra> Oh neat 05:16:41 <Nihilumbra> That does sound useful because dataloss is very annoying at times 05:17:59 <zzo38> Do you work with .XM musics at all? 05:18:08 <Decim> I have to go to bed 05:18:17 <Nihilumbra> Nope 05:18:32 <Nihilumbra> But 05:18:49 <Nihilumbra> explain what it is and maybe I will 05:19:47 <Nihilumbra> has anyone seen ^v around 05:20:27 <zzo38> It is a file format that many game programs that expect music will support (together with .MOD, .IT, and .S3M), first made up in a DOS program called Fasttracker. There are other programs too; the wiki I just linked also has another page to list some other such programs. 05:21:06 <Nihilumbra> That sounds cool 05:21:25 <Nihilumbra> I shall go research it in a bit but I'm making dinner and coffee 05:21:38 <Nihilumbra> even though its 11:38 pm 05:21:43 <zzo38> `? AmigaMML 05:21:53 <zzo38> You have dinner and coffee at 11:38 PM? 05:21:54 <HackEgo> Only fools such as zzo38 and so on try to use AmigaMML on a PC. Real Men try to use AmigaMML on a Amiga computer. \ https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/amigamml/wiki/Frequently_and_unfrequently_asked_questions 05:21:59 <Nihilumbra> habbit 05:22:16 <Nihilumbra> I never actually get around to stuff until around the late hours 05:23:47 <Nihilumbra> I've Become addicted to magic the gathering and I'm worried about this because I usually hate card games 05:24:21 <zzo38> I have made up several Magic: the Gathering cards too and also a few puzzles for Magic: the Gathering. If you have any of your own puzzle I want to see that too. 05:25:46 <Nihilumbra> I have a reanimation deck made of eldrazi's and eldrazi lords 05:26:08 <Nihilumbra> and a rainbow deck built around door to nothingness 05:26:24 <Nihilumbra> What do you mean puzzles 05:26:27 <zzo38> I have no cards or decks 05:26:44 <Nihilumbra> oh and now I get all these puns abour magic that have been on the tv 05:26:55 <zzo38> Mark Rosewater made up some Magic: the Puzzling some time ago, and now other people made up new ones 05:27:23 <Nihilumbra> example 05:27:33 <Nihilumbra> example 05:27:35 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.1 and also puzzle.2 and puzzle.3 in the same directory. 05:27:43 <zzo38> Those are some puzzles. 05:27:51 <Nihilumbra> sometimes my msgs don't send on screen 05:27:57 <Nihilumbra> I think its ping lag 05:28:10 <zzo38> (If you want solutions, they are called solution.1 and so on; you should first try to figure out by yourself though.) 05:29:15 <Nihilumbra> I'm looking at this 05:29:31 <Nihilumbra> and its pretty neat 05:29:35 <zzo38> I would buy more Magic: the Puzzling from Wizards of the Coast if they sold more, but they don't 05:30:15 <Nihilumbra> are those a thing 05:30:24 <Nihilumbra> because I'm relatively new 05:30:35 -!- Decim has quit (Quit: Onii-chan you're the best especially when you touch my breast). 05:30:40 <zzo38> As far as I know they only made one book, but there were others in issues of the Duelist magazine. 05:30:57 <Nihilumbra> what are weird leaving message 05:31:10 <zzo38> I am not interested in buying any cards but I would buy more Magic: the Puzzling. 05:31:22 <Nihilumbra> I actually want to see the lore books 05:31:42 <Nihilumbra> Should I drink this coffee or take a shower 05:31:59 <Nihilumbra> ill do both at the same time! 05:33:19 <Nihilumbra> setting up dwarf fortress while my chicken is cooking 05:34:33 <Nihilumbra> oh and http://i.imgur.com/1yx1LXR.jpg I wonder if this would work 05:35:11 <lemurian> lol nice 05:36:16 <zzo38> I can play Pokemon card too 05:37:00 <Nihilumbra> I feel dead 05:39:27 -!- adu_ has quit (Quit: adu_). 05:39:35 -!- lemurian has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 05:41:56 <Nihilumbra> Snusp is crazy 05:46:43 <zzo38> Can you figure out any of my puzzles? 05:46:49 <Nihilumbra> no 05:47:04 <Nihilumbra> ping lag 05:47:08 <Nihilumbra> no I didn't 05:47:33 <Nihilumbra> but I'm not using solutions because I want to get through this 05:47:42 <zzo38> OK 05:48:01 <Nihilumbra> but anyways food is ready 05:48:10 <Nihilumbra> and I'm done setting up 05:48:16 <Nihilumbra> so I best go off 05:48:19 <Nihilumbra> Bye 05:48:20 <zzo38> OK 05:50:01 <Elronnd> Bye 05:52:46 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:35:33 <zzo38> In mahjong what rules do you prefer dealing with whether or not the dealer can continue after a draw, and about whether or not the dealer is forced to continue? 06:36:20 <coppro> I prefer tenpai renchan 06:36:28 <coppro> agari yame for casual play, but not for a tournament setting 06:38:29 <zzo38> I like to use tenpai renchan for east round, and for south round the dealer continues after a draw regardless of tenpai or no-ten. At least, this is how I always play when I get to make these kind of decisions 06:38:31 <coppro> and tenpai yame is fine 06:38:37 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:39:04 <coppro> zzo38: interesting. I know of only two locations which use that renchan rule 06:39:39 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:39:45 <zzo38> Which locations is that? 06:40:23 <zzo38> (It also seems to be the rule for Washizu mahjong mode on Akagi DS) 06:41:26 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:42:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 06:42:08 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:45:51 <coppro> zzo38: Montreal and Waterloo 06:48:22 <zzo38> Ah, OK 06:49:12 -!- lemurian has joined. 06:58:20 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:13:04 -!- Wright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:30:37 * Taneb hello 07:32:53 <lemurian> howdy 07:33:28 <Taneb> I had a dream that my parents won a house in a lottery but it was only half built 07:33:53 <lemurian> fascinating 07:35:11 <lemurian> there is quite the potential to look at symbolism there 07:39:07 <Taneb> So I suggested we sell the house and our current house to buy a slightly better house 07:42:25 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:42:39 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:43:07 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 07:43:07 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:43:43 <Jafet> According to linguists, "Santa Claus has all the attributes of a sadist" 07:43:47 <Jafet> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-order_logic#Formalizing_natural_languages 07:45:18 <Sgeo> Is -w 1 likely to be sufficient for wgeting from some random webserver somewhere 07:45:30 <Sgeo> I think the files are intended to be downloaded, not sure about in bulk like this 07:45:40 <Sgeo> I put my email in the UA 07:47:45 <Jafet> That sounds unwise 07:48:03 <Jafet> If you're concerned though, use the rate-limiting option 07:48:41 <Sgeo> I am, at 1 item/second 07:49:34 <Jafet> Hmm, I don't remember if wget's speed limit is done correctly for multiple files 07:51:13 <Sgeo> Well, it's faster than it was at 5 seconds/item 07:51:24 <Sgeo> And slower than when I didn't have a limit (for a small portion) 07:52:00 <Sgeo> The webmaster is likely someone interested in VRML, so it could start a conversation 07:54:11 <Sgeo> It... seems to be the archives of someone who themselves scraped from a server many, MANY years ago 07:55:55 -!- Nihilumbra has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:29:38 -!- toxolotl1 has joined. 09:47:56 -!- hjulle has joined. 10:00:53 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 10:06:26 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:10:38 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 10:21:49 -!- boily has joined. 10:42:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:51:08 <mroman_> I need to introduce Duads 10:51:10 <mroman_> and Triads 10:51:54 <mroman_> Although in J they are called dyadic 10:52:03 <mroman_> but I distinguish between prefix dyadic und infix dyadic 10:52:31 -!- evalj has joined. 10:59:01 <mroman_> or hm. 10:59:05 <mroman_> Dyadic 1 and Dyadic 2 10:59:38 <Taneb> Is a duad just a bimonoid in the bicategory of duendofunctors? 11:03:03 <mroman_> ,"1m2+"1M2 11:03:19 <mroman_> which is (min(1,2)+max(1,2)) 11:05:21 <mroman_> ,:,"1m2+"1M2R{,p+p is reduce(range(0,(min(1,2)+max(1,2))), \a b -> a + b) 11:09:33 <mroman_> Hard to read :) 11:09:52 <mroman_> mainly because whether m is an Operator or the Variable m depends on the context 11:12:59 <mroman_> Taneb: is there even such a thing? 11:13:03 <mroman_> `? bimonoid 11:13:08 <Taneb> I have no idea 11:13:09 <HackEgo> bimonoid? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:13:34 <J_A_Work> This is fundamentally one of my weaknesses with inventing really esoteric sort of languages: I would never remember a scheme like that, even if I designed it myself. 11:13:43 <J_A_Work> I barely remember how my own code works sometimes. 11:14:04 <boily> I guess sadly bimonoids aren't such a thing, because a·b·c is associative. 11:14:31 <boily> J_A_Wellork. remembering what you own code does is one of the Greatest Achievements a programmer can reach. 11:14:47 <mroman_> J_A_Work: I seem to be able to remember such things quite well. 11:14:57 <b_jonas> heh 11:15:01 <mroman_> See Burlesque :) 11:15:08 <Taneb> boihelloy! 11:15:25 <mroman_> I can still golf in it without having to look up the language reference most of the time 11:16:10 <boily> Tanelle! 11:16:11 <b_jonas> mroman_: yes, it helps that you invented it so you assigned the primitives such that you already remember their names 11:16:17 <mroman_> :D 11:16:22 <b_jonas> it's hard to golf for everyone else 11:16:23 <mroman_> b_jonas: True. 11:16:24 <J_A_Work> Well, part of it is that over the years I’ve come to realize I have genuine problems with my memory. 11:16:44 <b_jonas> even with the docs, because they're hard to read 11:17:23 <mroman_> "Defined as \/bxcy\/z[{p^+]e!}m[" <- you're referring to those things? 11:18:09 <mroman_> I could have written descriptions for those + giving their definition (because knowing the *exact* definition is very important to abuse sideeffects) 11:18:17 <mroman_> but I'm lazy 11:19:04 <mroman_> "Defined as x/Shx/\/x/x/\/P[" is my favorite 11:19:16 <mroman_> because x/ is not a regular swap :D 11:19:31 <mroman_> this builtin contains so many freaking swaps 11:19:36 <mroman_> (\/ is a regular swap though) 11:20:33 <mroman_> J_A_Work: My memore is very selective :D 11:20:35 <mroman_> *memory 11:20:52 <mroman_> but it's quite good at remembering things you wouldn't really need to 11:21:05 <mroman_> but if you ask my memory what I did this saturday you're out of luck. 11:22:40 <mroman_> In Burleqsue j2 is the builtin j + integer 1 whereas b2 is the builtin b2 :p 11:22:45 <mroman_> * integer 2 11:23:43 <boily> mroman_: when was the last Saturday you had? 11:26:21 <mroman_> this saturday 11:26:24 <mroman_> and I was probably working 11:26:31 <mroman_> as irc logs confirm 11:27:17 <mroman_> I remember watching Stargate Atlantis 11:27:21 <mroman_> some episodes 11:27:46 <mroman_> at least according to netflix I'm at episode 6 now 11:28:24 <b_jonas> mroman_: not just those definitions, but that it's hard to search for even things that do have good short descriptions 11:29:34 <Taneb> Oooh, a talk on semigroups tomorrow 11:29:38 <Taneb> I know about semigroups 11:29:39 <b_jonas> like when I couldn't find the primitve that pops a single element and makes a box from it containing the single element 11:29:40 <Taneb> I shall attend! 11:30:12 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HELIOTROPIC CHICKEN). 11:32:42 <mroman_> also ops of the Group Dyadic2 can either be infix or prefix 11:32:46 <mroman_> some of them at least. 11:32:49 <mroman_> not in all cases 11:33:01 <mroman_> "m1 2 or "1m2 11:39:14 <mroman_> it tries to parse them prefix first, then infix 11:39:28 <mroman_> but 1 isn't a legal operator so in that case you can use infix notation 11:41:30 <mroman_> b_jonas: you mean bx? 11:42:12 <mroman_> "Box|bx|Any a|Put a in an empty block" 11:42:36 <b_jonas> mroman_: yes, that 11:42:58 <b_jonas> it says "empty" whereas the box isn't empty, so I didn't find it 11:43:07 <b_jonas> it should say "singleton" or "length 1" or something 11:43:23 <b_jonas> or "single element" 11:43:27 <mroman_> after you put a into an empty block the block isn't empty anymore :) 11:43:36 <b_jonas> but but but 11:43:40 <b_jonas> blocks are immutable 11:43:51 <b_jonas> do you mean it conses an element before an empty block? 11:44:03 <mroman_> blocks aren't immutable 11:44:09 <b_jonas> what 11:44:22 <mroman_> wel.. define immutable 11:44:24 <mroman_> *well 11:44:40 <mroman_> you can delete elements from a block 11:45:21 <b_jonas> can you keep multiple references to a block, delete elements from the block through one reference, and see that change when read from another reference? 11:45:33 <mroman_> an implementation could do some reference counting and using copy-on-write or perform the operation on the same structure if no other references are found 11:45:40 <mroman_> b_jonas: no, not that. 11:45:46 <b_jonas> then they're immutable 11:45:53 <b_jonas> modifying them might be an optimization, sure 11:46:02 <mroman_> you could make them semi-mutable under the hood 11:46:21 <mroman_> instead of copying the whole thing when duplicating stuff like that 11:46:44 <mroman_> I'm not sure how ghc optimizes/handles those things 11:47:59 <mroman_> if I had implemented it in C I would have kept track of references. 11:48:20 <mroman_> because you only need to copy-on-write if there are other references around. Otherwise you don't need to copy it. 11:48:25 <b_jonas> right 11:48:40 <b_jonas> std::shared_ptr can do that, it has a member function to tell if there's only one reference 11:48:48 <mroman_> but that's C++ 11:48:52 <mroman_> and I hate C++ ;P 11:48:53 <b_jonas> (basically it reads the reference count) 11:48:57 <b_jonas> oh well 11:54:42 <b_jonas> "The past keeps getting cooler! (And there's more of it every day!)" http://www.xkcd.com/1104/ 11:55:35 <mroman_> I've heard dinosauriers are actually just large chikens 11:55:37 <mroman_> *chickens 11:56:52 <b_jonas> `? dinosaurs 11:56:52 <HackEgo> dinosaurs? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:57:09 -!- toxolotl1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:57:16 <b_jonas> we should add that as wisdom 11:57:54 <mroman_> `learn Dinosaurs are a diverse group of pre-historic chickens with feathers. 11:57:57 <HackEgo> Learned 'dinosaur': Dinosaurs are a diverse group of pre-historic chickens with feathers. 11:58:25 <b_jonas> that Asimov short story confirms this by the way 12:12:40 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:21:57 <mroman_> Chickens lay eggs, Dinosaurs lay eggs therefore Dinosaurs are Chickens. 12:22:30 <mroman_> Chickens move on two legs, Humans move on two legs therefore Humans are also Chickens. 12:22:45 <mroman_> except that we don't have a gyroscopically stable head 12:22:48 <mroman_> that would be somewhat cool 12:31:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:47:44 -!- TieSoul has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 12:49:09 -!- TieSoul has joined. 12:59:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:08:05 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:08:30 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 13:30:54 -!- nycs has joined. 13:31:42 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 13:41:36 -!- Wright has joined. 13:49:48 <coppro> anyone know any hilarious lets play videos I can put on in the background? 13:59:28 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:01:18 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:02:56 -!- Wright has joined. 14:09:42 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:12:06 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:19:07 -!- SopaXT has joined. 14:19:12 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:24:17 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:35:28 -!- coppro has joined. 14:48:49 -!- Welo has joined. 14:50:43 -!- lemurian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:51:07 -!- lemurian has joined. 14:51:49 <coppro> `run unicode "LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE ACCENT" 14:51:51 <HackEgo> No output. 14:53:21 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:53:45 -!- coppro has joined. 15:03:13 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 15:05:01 -!- lemurian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:09:58 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:14:49 <mroman_> hm 15:14:54 <mroman_> do I need annotations without postfix ... 15:19:39 <mroman_> yeah... still do 15:25:04 -!- Welo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:30:51 <b_jonas> what do you mean "tar (child): compress: Cannot exec: No such file or directory"? just decompress it with gzip you stupid tar 15:31:02 <b_jonas> (luckily an explicit -z helped) 15:35:41 -!- Herbalist has joined. 15:38:46 -!- tromp_ has joined. 15:43:15 -!- lemurian has joined. 15:48:01 <mroman_> I always use tar -xvz 15:48:43 <mroman_> If that doesn't work I give up. 15:49:32 <int-e> tar xzf here, j for .tar.bz2, J for tar.xz 15:51:15 * int-e wonders what using tar xf vs. tar -xf says about a person. probably nothing :) 15:51:47 -!- Welo has joined. 15:53:34 <mroman_> Of course there's also squeeze 15:55:04 <mroman_> `tar 15:55:05 <HackEgo> tar: You must specify one of the `-Acdtrux' or `--test-label' options \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information. 15:55:15 <mroman_> `? tar 15:55:15 <HackEgo> The command you're looking for is probably either tar -xavkf or tar -cavf 15:55:37 <mroman_> is it? 15:56:05 <mroman_> b_jonas: -a makes it guess the compression program 15:56:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:57:32 <b_jonas> mroman_: these days, it always guesses the compression program without anything special (though that only works if the input is seekable) 15:57:48 <b_jonas> mroman_: I generally write tar tvf for all kinds of compressed tarballs 15:57:52 <b_jonas> that works for gzip and bzip2 15:58:03 <b_jonas> but here, for a unix-compressed one, it tried to invoke compress 15:58:10 <b_jonas> which I don't have installed 15:58:26 <b_jonas> it could have just invoked gzip instead, which can read unix-compressed files 16:00:28 <mroman_> or we could have used a gui program, like the noobs we are 16:00:36 <mroman_> I do that from time to time. 16:15:28 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:20:58 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:28:04 -!- Welo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:52:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:59:46 -!- password2 has joined. 17:08:20 -!- Welo has joined. 17:11:46 <ski> zzo38 : .. actually, my brother also keeps saying that it should be `d(dy/dx)/dx', but not `d^2y/dx^2' (in general) 17:21:37 <Phantom_Hoover> good god this is really becoming a saga 17:22:02 <Phantom_Hoover> i did explain the idea behind the d^2y/dx^2 thing last time 17:22:12 <Phantom_Hoover> it's more or less completely an abuse of notation 17:25:11 <coppro> so is all of my thesis 17:25:20 <coppro> and in fact the entire field 17:32:28 <zzo38> Yes, I agree that d^2y/dx^2 is wrong. 17:34:30 <zzo38> It is d(dy/dx)/dx but you can also expand that into a more complicated form 17:34:41 <b_jonas> coppro: wait... do you have a thesis about calculus? 17:34:46 <coppro> b_jonas: no, graph theory 17:34:47 <coppro> it's worse 17:34:49 <b_jonas> oh whew 17:35:52 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:37:46 <zzo38> For tar I just use "tar t" or "tar x" or "tar c" though 17:39:14 <b_jonas> c is different. if you're creating an archive, you have to explicitly tell how to compress of course 17:39:22 <b_jonas> doesn't guess in that case 17:39:36 <zzo38> I don't want it to compress. I will use an external program to compress. 17:39:56 <b_jonas> you can do that too 17:40:05 <b_jonas> it's just convenient for me that tar can invoke the external program 17:40:57 <zzo38> To me, there is no good reason for tar to invoke external programs. (For some programs this is useful, but not for tar) 17:41:41 <b_jonas> ok 17:41:45 <b_jonas> I find it convenient 17:41:51 <b_jonas> well, there's one case when it's essential 17:41:59 <b_jonas> but not the compression case 17:42:20 <zzo38> Which case do you mean? 17:42:23 <b_jonas> --checkpoint-action 17:42:48 <b_jonas> it lets tar periodically invoke a program, passing some environment variables, that lets me print a status message of how far tar has got 17:42:59 <b_jonas> so I can see an approximate percentage progress when making large archives 17:43:15 <b_jonas> it's approximate because I can only give an approximate to the final size 17:44:02 <b_jonas> but it still works well enough in most cases, except when I give a very wrong estimate because I don't count linked files, but tar recognizes them and packs them only once 17:44:11 <zzo38> Can't a pipe do that too though, if you have a "checkpoint action" program that can invoke the other program (and otherwise just copies input to output)? 17:44:49 <b_jonas> (that comes up most often when I back up a directory with git executables, which has like a hundred files linked to a large executable) 17:44:54 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, I guess that could work too 17:56:52 -!- a2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:57:16 <Taneb> I am very much enjoying this book "How Not To Be Wrong: The Hidden Maths Of Everyday Life" 17:59:51 <zzo38> You can use quotient rule to expand "d(dy/dx)/dx" 18:05:23 <shachaf> Taneb: how many hidden maths are there 18:08:15 <Vorpal> Taneb, what sort of things does it discuss? 18:09:56 <zzo38> Are you able to check for me on https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/amigamml exactly which permissions a logged in user who is not a member of the project is having? 18:12:03 <zzo38> Do you know if the "Roadmap" feature of Redmine can be turned off? I am not using that feature in my project. There is a list of modules to enable/disable, but that isn't one of the choices. 18:12:04 <Taneb> shachaf, all of them 18:12:15 <Taneb> Vorpal, I'm currently at "Don't assume curves are lines" 18:23:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:24:43 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:29:42 <oren> How much macros is too much macros? 18:29:55 <coppro> 1 18:30:32 <oren> I have like, 40 in this thing 18:32:44 <oren> basically, my sclaing algorithm is based on matching patterns against the local pixels... so I make macros that llow me to write the patterns directy into the code 18:33:14 <coppro> ais523: can you recommend a good, funny LP to watch? 18:34:04 <ais523> coppro: LP = Let's Play? I'm not sure, because I tend to go for informative rather than amusing 18:34:27 <ais523> basically what I do is pick a game I want to learn more about, and then look through a few LPs on YouTube until I find one that doesn't irritate me 18:34:31 <ais523> or, actually 18:34:40 <ais523> any blind Let's Play of Wario Land 4 makes good watching 18:34:44 <ais523> I look for those every now and then 18:34:53 <ais523> but it's not particularly funny, it's not like it's a particularly rage-inducing game or anything 18:34:54 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:34:59 <ais523> I just like seeing how people solve it 18:35:10 <oren> Wario land 4 one of my favorite games ever 18:35:53 <ais523> yes, it's great 18:36:27 <coppro> yeah 18:36:37 <coppro> I really enjoyed 3 too 18:37:14 <ais523> the best way to think about the Wario Land series is 18:37:29 <ais523> 2 and 3 are all liked by over half of players but seriously disliked by a proportion of others 18:37:37 <ais523> 4 is amazing and hardly anyone dislikes it 18:37:48 <ais523> 5 is basically 4 but a bit worse, but that doesn't make it a bad game because "4 but a bit worse" is still good 18:37:55 <ais523> and nobody can remember what 1 is lijke 18:37:57 <ais523> *like 18:38:01 <coppro> I wasn't aware there was a 5 18:38:32 <ais523> coppro: it's on the Wii, and called "Wario Land: Shake It!" or "Wario Land: The Shake Dimension" depending on localization 18:38:40 <ais523> and it's one of the most painfully obvious 4 clones ever 18:38:50 <coppro> ahh 18:38:53 <ais523> with level design that's a little less inspired, and a different but arguably more interesting moveset 18:39:02 <b_jonas> ais523: are the unskippable cutscenes part of why some people hate wario land 2 or 3? 18:39:13 <ais523> b_jonas: I mean in the gameplay 18:39:21 <b_jonas> wait, is this the gameboy or the nes games? 18:39:29 <ais523> there isn't a nes wario land 18:39:34 <b_jonas> hmm 18:39:38 <ais523> there's a virtual boy version that's apparently really good but hardly anyone has played it 18:39:45 <ais523> (normally considered to be the /only/ good game on the virtual boy) 18:40:12 <b_jonas> no surprise because nobody has a virtual boy 18:40:20 <b_jonas> or so I think 18:40:33 <b_jonas> if it's the only good game than that's understandible 18:40:37 <ais523> yes, that's because it only has one good game 18:40:54 <b_jonas> most consoles have multiple good games 18:41:13 <ais523> I know, even the unpopular ones 18:41:19 <coppro> wario land 3 was fun because of the way you had to explore old levels 18:41:31 <ais523> the virtual boy was just basically a terrible idea though, it was an attempt to make a 3D games console before the technology for that existed 18:41:45 <b_jonas> coppro: um, you can explore old but changed levels even in wario land 1 18:42:34 -!- qlkzy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:42:54 <coppro> b_jonas: you can't in 2 and I don't think you can in 4? 18:43:00 <coppro> and I've never played 1 18:43:15 <ais523> coppro: you can replay old levels in 4 but there's no reason to unless you missed collectibles 18:43:23 <ais523> except for fun of course 18:43:59 <coppro> we're talking about 3 where it's part of the game, though 18:44:32 <b_jonas> coppro: in wario land 1, completing some zones can change old levels significantly, so it can be worth to explore them again. you don't strictly have to if you're not going for the best ending, but I think there are collectibles you can access only after a level has changed. 18:44:52 -!- qlkzy has joined. 18:47:49 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:48:09 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:51:16 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to Elron7zz\. 18:51:29 -!- Elron7zz\ has changed nick to Elronnd. 18:52:26 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:55:16 -!- Elronnd has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 18:57:05 -!- Elronnd has joined. 18:58:35 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:03:38 -!- nys has joined. 19:07:22 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:11:16 -!- relrod_ has joined. 19:11:24 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:11:24 <HackEgo> substructural typing/Not to be confused with structural subtyping. 19:11:30 <shachaf> `? structural subtyping 19:11:31 <HackEgo> Not to be confused with substructural typing. 19:11:56 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:11:56 <HackEgo> firefly/FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. 19:12:19 <Taneb> That is annoyingly true, but I guess is actually about channel regular FireFly ? 19:12:40 <ais523> huh, I've actually worked with substructural subtyping, I think 19:13:43 <FireFly> `? FireFly 19:13:44 <HackEgo> FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. 19:14:04 <FireFly> `cat bin/wisdom 19:14:05 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/"; cat "$F" 19:14:12 <FireFly> I see 19:14:36 -!- relrod has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:14:50 <Taneb> `cat bin/? 19:14:50 <FireFly> Taneb: the channel regular isn't actually a TV series, I think 19:14:50 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \ 19:15:04 <Taneb> FireFly, are you sure 19:16:16 <FireFly> `` rnooodl <<<'this is a test' 19:16:17 <HackEgo> this is a test 19:16:22 <FireFly> `cat bin/rnooodl 19:16:23 <HackEgo> perl -pe 's/([Nn])ooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge' 19:16:32 <FireFly> I see 19:16:39 <Taneb> `cat bin/ngevd 19:16:40 <HackEgo> cat: bin/ngevd: No such file or directory 19:16:40 <FireFly> Taneb: fairly sure 19:16:47 <Taneb> FireFly, hmmmmm 19:17:14 <shachaf> ` noooodl 19:17:14 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 19:17:21 <shachaf> `? nooodl 19:17:22 <HackEgo> nooooooodl is the correct spelling 19:17:26 <shachaf> `? nooodl 19:17:28 <HackEgo> noooodl is the correct spelling 19:17:30 <shachaf> so great 19:17:53 <Taneb> `cat wisdom/ngevd 19:17:53 <FireFly> Seems a bit excessive to pipe all wisdom through it 19:17:53 <HackEgo> ngevd is a fake wisdom entry. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ 19:18:07 <mroman_> Who let the fnord out... 19:18:19 <Phantom_Hoover> `? ngevd 19:18:19 <HackEgo> ​i\<JB>Lkǻ%W/q^MC 19:18:21 <FireFly> p. sure fungot did 19:18:21 <fungot> FireFly: got url? it does almost no computation. 19:18:33 <Phantom_Hoover> i've forgotten why it's special cased 19:18:46 <FireFly> `? ngevd 19:18:47 <HackEgo> ​)XCT5JSЈ3^_C9Um.VovR\\FFʂH-/e&[58lGD{2Vwa.>J*(bEhD*9@R7Dԛv|c_.SydNKXST4ϕኴEn_.hjƎeO=A[qD,M,$i;.6-^1JI2"\XY˯M̲~@CǛbKkˑ%](@ؿчN~vymFJfPqHیe%1^?LA$̀ 19:19:04 <Phantom_Hoover> i should put it back to being a symlink to /dev/urandom, someone's sure to explain it again then 19:19:07 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, was causing issues with `pastewisdom 19:19:08 <Phantom_Hoover> `cat bin/? 19:19:09 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \ 19:19:29 <Taneb> Which was getting to Ngevd then dissolving into random garble evermore 19:19:54 <FireFly> perhaps fix pastewisdom instead 19:20:17 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 19:20:59 <fizzie> It was also causing issues with people doing anything wisdom/*. 19:21:05 <fizzie> Like ad-hoc grepping through. 19:21:14 -!- idris-bot has joined. 19:21:25 <fizzie> Or computing statistics, or whatnot. 19:23:18 <FireFly> Fair 19:24:14 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:24:16 <HackEgo> forth/Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication. 19:24:35 <ais523> `wisdom 19:24:36 <HackEgo> indexed monad/Indexed monads are just monads on an indexed category. \ Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors. 19:25:44 <Melvar> Sigh. ^[%/H didn’t work. 19:27:32 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:27:34 <HackEgo> fternooner/fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”) is a screamingly delicious pastry. 19:27:36 -!- relrod_ has changed nick to relrod. 19:29:18 <oren> `? 19:29:19 <HackEgo> ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:29:55 <oren> `? 　 19:29:56 <HackEgo> ​　? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:30:18 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:30:18 <HackEgo> anana/ananas is the real pineapple. 19:30:40 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:30:41 <HackEgo> c#/C Pound is Java's good twin. 19:30:50 <shachaf> `? java 19:30:51 <HackEgo> java? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:31:22 <shachaf> java sounds like a Tanebvention to me 19:31:42 <oren> `le/rn 　/　 is a space, unless you're hackego and don't understand wide characters. 19:31:44 <HackEgo> Learned «　» 19:32:54 <FireFly> «quotes» are at least better than ”quotes” and »quotes» 19:33:30 <FireFly> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Finnish_and_Swedish we have the silliest quotation marks 19:33:32 <oren> someone should make a whitespace expansion that uses all the invisible characters in unicode 19:33:41 <shachaf> `cat wisdom/ 19:33:42 <HackEgo> The final frontier. 19:33:47 <int-e> `? ./ 19:33:48 <HackEgo> cat: ./: Is a directory 19:34:04 <shachaf> `? ../../../../../../etc/passwd 19:34:04 <HackEgo> ​../../../../../../etc/passwd? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:34:29 <FireFly> `? /etc 19:34:29 <HackEgo> cat: /etc: Is a directory 19:34:33 <FireFly> `? /etc/passwd 19:34:34 <HackEgo> ​/etc/passwd? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:34:37 <FireFly> oh well 19:35:39 <shachaf> Oh, it doesn't even exist. 19:35:44 <shachaf> And you can give absolute paths. 19:35:46 <shachaf> Oh well. 19:36:20 <Melvar> `ls /etc 19:36:21 <HackEgo> alternatives \ java-6-openjdk 19:36:38 <oren> `? /etc/mtab 19:36:39 <HackEgo> ​/etc/mtab? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:37:04 <FireFly> `? /hackego/canary 19:37:05 <HackEgo> ​/hackego/canary? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:37:10 <FireFly> urgh 19:37:12 <FireFly> `ls / 19:37:13 <HackEgo> bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr 19:37:18 <FireFly> right, that was it 19:37:21 <FireFly> `? /hackenv/canary 19:37:22 <HackEgo> cough 19:45:19 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:47:42 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 19:55:01 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:56:06 -!- atrapado has joined. 19:58:33 <ais523> the canary is /executable/? 19:58:39 <ais523> wait, that's a wisdom entry 19:58:44 <ais523> `cat canary 19:59:04 <HackEgo> cough 19:59:08 <ais523> `` ls -l canary 19:59:09 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 6 Jun 6 16:20 canary 20:01:07 <Taneb> "The natural logarithm is the one you always use if you are a mathematician or have e fingers" 20:02:15 <fizzie> The "trick" of "exploiting" `? via absolute paths is kind of amusing, given HackEgo. 20:02:33 <ais523> `? /dev/random 20:03:04 <HackEgo> No output. 20:04:37 <ais523> `cat ? 20:04:38 <HackEgo> cat: ?: No such file or directory 20:04:40 <ais523> wait 20:04:43 <ais523> `cat /bin/? 20:04:44 <HackEgo> cat: /bin/?: No such file or directory 20:05:01 <int-e> `? exploit 20:05:01 <HackEgo> exploit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:05:05 <ais523> `` find / -name '?' 20:05:05 <HackEgo> ​/ \ /proc/irq/9 \ /proc/irq/8 \ /proc/irq/7 \ /proc/irq/6 \ /proc/irq/5 \ /proc/irq/4 \ /proc/irq/3 \ /proc/irq/2 \ /proc/irq/1 \ /proc/irq/0 \ find: `/proc/tty/driver': Permission denied \ /proc/1 \ /proc/1/task/1 \ find: `/proc/1/task/1/fd': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/task/1/fdinfo': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/task/1/ns': Permi 20:05:10 <ais523> oh bleh 20:05:11 <ais523> `` find / -name '\?' 20:05:15 <olsner> `echo `pwd` 20:05:17 <ais523> double escaping here we go 20:05:17 <HackEgo> ​`pwd` 20:05:22 -!- olsner has left ("Leaving"). 20:05:22 <int-e> fizzie: as you can see there's nothing HackEgo knows about exploits 20:05:30 -!- olsner has joined. 20:05:45 <HackEgo> find: `/proc/tty/driver': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/task/1/fd': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/task/1/fdinfo': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/task/1/ns': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/fd': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/fdinfo': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/ns': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/2/task/2/fd': Permissi 20:06:17 <olsner> `run echo */? 20:06:18 <HackEgo> bin/` bin/̊ bin/! bin/? bin/¿ bin/' bin/@ bin/؟ bin/ bin/e bin/h bin/q ibin/c ibin/k quines/c quines/q wisdom/` wisdom/ wisdom/? wisdom/@ wisdom/\ wisdom/☃ wisdom/⊥ wisdom/⌨ wisdom/　 wisdom/🐐 wisdom/ wisdom/1 wisdom/a wisdom/å wisdom/Å wisdom/c wisdom/i wisdom/k wisdom/ø wisdom/Ø wisdom/u 20:06:23 <fizzie> Oh, int-e changed the canary. 20:06:32 <fizzie> I was so confused, it was chirp not long ago. 20:06:35 <shachaf> What's the canary? 20:06:49 <int-e> fizzie: just checking ;) 20:06:54 <fizzie> shachaf: A file. 20:06:58 <olsner> the canary tells you when the mine is broken 20:07:01 <shachaf> What is it canarying? 20:07:08 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:07:09 <HackEgo> willkommen/Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen besuchen Sie das Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf irc.dal.net.) 20:07:23 <fizzie> `? canary 20:07:24 <HackEgo> cough 20:07:27 <fizzie> Heh. 20:07:29 * int-e doesn't know the history of the canary file, is it worth checking? 20:07:41 <fizzie> It's not terribly interesting. 20:07:45 <ais523> int-e: try to delete it 20:08:01 <fizzie> It's been chrip, tweet, foo, and now cough. And also empty. 20:08:14 <ais523> its defining feature is that it exists 20:08:25 <ais523> but you can change it arbitrarily otherwise 20:08:30 <int-e> well at least it's changed a bit over time... http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/0c6f3ec8633b/canary 20:08:43 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary canary 20:08:48 <HackEgo> ln: `canary' and `canary' are the same file 20:08:52 <fizzie> Oh, and it's been "now this file will be strangely hard to empty completely" for a while. 20:08:55 <ais523> wait what 20:09:04 <ais523> why won't ln let me make a symlink that points at itself 20:09:11 <ais523> `` ln -sf canary temp-canary 20:09:13 <HackEgo> No output. 20:09:20 <ais523> `` mv temp-canary canary 20:09:21 <HackEgo> mv: `temp-canary' and `canary' are the same file 20:09:35 <ais523> wait, is it making a /hardlink/? 20:09:41 <ais523> `` ls -l temp-canary 20:09:42 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Jun 8 20:10 temp-canary -> canary 20:09:51 <ais523> no 20:10:26 <ais523> `` mkdir looptest 20:10:29 <HackEgo> No output. 20:10:33 <ais523> `` mv temp-canary looptest/canary 20:10:35 <HackEgo> No output. 20:10:46 <ais523> `` mv --target-directory=. looptest/canary 20:10:48 <HackEgo> No output. 20:10:51 <ais523> `` ls -l canary 20:10:53 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 6 Jun 8 20:12 canary 20:11:14 <ais523> `` (cd looptest; mv --target-directory=.. canary) 20:11:15 <HackEgo> No output. 20:11:18 <ais523> `` ls -l canary 20:11:19 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 6 Jun 8 20:12 canary 20:11:22 <ais523> hmm 20:11:31 <ais523> I wonder if the canary being a symlink is impossible for the same reason it can't be deleted 20:11:36 <ais523> `` (cd looptest; mv --target-directory=.. canary; ls -l ../canary) 20:11:37 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Jun 8 20:13 ../canary -> canary 20:11:45 <ais523> yes, I guess that's it 20:11:46 <ais523> how boring 20:11:52 <ais523> `` rm -r looptest 20:11:54 <HackEgo> No output. 20:12:02 <fizzie> I could check, but it might be a "-f test", kind of. 20:12:13 <shachaf> `rm canary 20:12:13 <ais523> yep, that's probably what it is 20:12:14 <HackEgo> No output. 20:12:18 <ais523> `ls -l canary 20:12:22 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 20:12:26 <ais523> `` ls -l canary 20:12:27 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 6 Jun 8 20:13 canary 20:12:30 <ais523> shachaf: see, it didn't work 20:12:32 <shachaf> Why would it give you a "same file" error? 20:12:44 <ais523> it shouldn't, they're different files 20:12:55 <ais523> and it didn't when I expressed it in terms of --target-directory 20:13:12 <int-e> so ... if the canary is gone, hackego doesn't commit the changes? 20:14:13 <ais523> int-e: right 20:14:16 <fizzie> `` (rm canary; ln -sf canary canary; ls -l canary) 20:14:18 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Jun 8 20:15 canary -> canary 20:14:27 <fizzie> `` ls -l canary 20:14:29 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 6 Jun 8 20:16 canary 20:14:33 <fizzie> Yeah, boring. 20:14:44 <ais523> wait, you can link a nonexistent file to itself? 20:14:47 <fizzie> Yes. 20:14:52 <ais523> just not overwriting one that already exists? 20:14:54 <ais523> that makes no sense 20:15:05 <ais523> (I mean, I know you can syscall-wise, this is about what ln will and won't do) 20:15:10 <pikhq> The contents of a symlink are actually an arbitrary string. 20:15:12 <fizzie> I'm guessing that might just be some kind of a very narrow and explicit check. Although nobody's trying to prevent multi-step loops, so... 20:15:15 <ais523> pikhq: I know that 20:15:18 <pikhq> ln does not validate the arguments. 20:15:28 <ais523> [21:10] <ais523> `` ln -sf canary canary 20:15:29 <pikhq> (ln *may not* validate the arguments. :)) 20:15:29 <ais523> [21:10] <HackEgo> ln: `canary' and `canary' are the same file 20:15:37 <ais523> pikhq: HackEgo's ln disagrees with you 20:15:55 <ais523> perhaps this was some generic "same file" which was added to all the GNU utilities 20:16:03 <ais523> without checking to see if it actually made sense 20:16:04 <ais523> `` ln --version 20:16:05 <HackEgo> ln (GNU coreutils) 8.13 \ Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>. \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by Mike Parker and David MacKenzie. 20:16:06 <pikhq> HackEgo's ln is incorrect. 20:16:14 <fizzie> It's the same as my ln. 20:16:25 <ais523> admittedly I didn't know GNU for certain 20:16:33 <shachaf> `` rm canary; mkdir canary 20:16:35 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `canary': Is a directory \ mkdir: cannot create directory `canary': File exists 20:16:44 <ais523> but it was a good guess, partly based on probability, parltly based on the fact that it quotes like `this' 20:16:49 <ais523> wait what? 20:16:52 <fizzie> shachaf: The reasons for that message are ridiculous. 20:16:52 <ais523> `` ls -ld canary 20:16:53 <shachaf> `` ls canary 20:16:53 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Jun 8 20:18 canary 20:16:54 <HackEgo> No output. 20:17:01 <fizzie> ais523: I puzzled that out; it's the two-step commit. 20:17:06 <shachaf> fizzie: I think we've discussed them before. 20:17:09 <fizzie> ais523: Although I've forgotten the details. 20:17:14 <ais523> fizzie: so what is canary /actually/ in the FS? 20:17:26 <fizzie> Now it's a directory. 20:17:33 <fizzie> But the message is confusing, because it's from the second iteration. 20:17:40 <ais523> oh, I see 20:17:57 <ais523> `` ln -s .. canary/canary 20:17:59 <HackEgo> No output. 20:18:03 <ais523> now it's a directory that contains itself 20:18:08 <ais523> that's about as close as I can get to what I was aiming to do 20:18:27 <ais523> fizzie: ooh 20:18:31 <ais523> could we exploit this to delete the canary 20:18:47 <Elronnd> a directory that contains itself doesn't work 20:18:52 <fizzie> I think not, because from what I recall, the second iteration is strictly for the output. 20:18:57 <ais523> `` ls canary/canary/canary/canary 20:18:59 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ script.py \ share \ src \ twolines \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom 20:19:04 <olsner> `` ln -d canary/test canary 20:19:04 <Elronnd> Programs will complain about "too many of symbolic link" 20:19:04 <HackEgo> ln: accessing `canary/test': No such file or directory 20:19:08 <ais523> oh right 20:19:12 <olsner> `` ln -d canary canary/test 20:19:13 <HackEgo> ln: failed to create hard link `canary/test' => `canary': Operation not permitted 20:19:13 <ais523> `` ln -sf . canary/canary 20:19:14 <HackEgo> ln: `.' and `canary/canary/.' are the same file 20:19:22 <ais523> `` rm canary/canary 20:19:24 <HackEgo> No output. 20:19:25 <ais523> `` ln -sf . canary/canary 20:19:28 <HackEgo> No output. 20:19:32 <ais523> `` ls canary/canary/canary/canary 20:19:32 <HackEgo> canary 20:19:34 <shachaf> fizzie: Did that hg bug ever get fixed? 20:19:34 <ais523> there we go 20:19:51 <fizzie> shachaf: I've forgotten the details of that, too. 20:20:03 <shachaf> So have I, but you filed a bug about it. 20:20:21 <fizzie> Ohh. That rings a bell. 20:20:27 <shachaf> https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/pull-request/3/fix-repository-cleanup-wrt-spaces-in-paths/diff 20:20:44 <int-e> ah, 2012 <shachaf> zzo38: Did you ever finish your Magic: The Gathering software? 20:20:53 <fizzie> I wrote some kind of a patch, but there might have been some uncertainty whether it was throgouh enough. 20:21:04 <shachaf> int-e: ? 20:21:30 <shachaf> 2012 was before I ever played Magic: The Gathering. 20:21:33 <shachaf> Oh well. 20:21:43 <shachaf> I think zzo38 had a programming language based on it or something. 20:22:50 <int-e> shachaf: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2012-03-18.txt 20:23:17 <shachaf> I believe you but I wonder why you brought it up. 20:23:19 <int-e> but I actually found it interesting because the idea is still around 20:33:16 -!- gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:47:35 <tswett> I just realized. Performing mathematical proofs using restricted axioms is cross-platform development. 20:52:57 <ais523> I like how profound that statement sounds 20:58:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:00:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:03:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:03:26 <b_jonas> tswett: yes, and in theory it could be useful for portability if we meet alien species that have developped mathematics before they learnt it from us 21:14:06 <tswett> Aliens who, for some reason, developed a type of mathematics besides classical mathematics. 21:16:46 <tswett> Perhaps they consider negation to be a very strange and advanced concept. 21:18:15 <Phantom_Hoover> >aliens having mathematics comprehensible to us 21:18:16 <Phantom_Hoover> lol 21:21:22 <tswett> If I met an alien, and found that they didn't know about "our" mathematics, I would wonder why the heck not. 21:21:35 <pikhq> There's only so insane they can get without losing physics. 21:22:22 <tswett> Though I wonder how mathematics would have developed in a universe with no concept of space or quantity. 21:22:36 <pikhq> (all bets are off if we meet said alien species in a context where they're not likely to have cause for much in the way of physics) 21:23:17 <tswett> It's not too hard to imagine a universe with no concept of space. It's harder to imagine a universe with no concept of quantity. 21:23:29 <tswett> Rather, a universe where the concept of quantity is relatively useless. 21:24:01 <tswett> Maybe it would be a universe where everything is unique, and so it doesn't make any sense to have "two of something". 21:25:06 <tswett> And where whenever you divide things into classes, there are necessarily infinitely many classes and infinitely many things in each class. 21:26:17 <tswett> How about a universe that's very small, and so it doesn't contain very many of anything? There are still quantities, but all of them are very small. 21:26:49 <tswett> Like a universe consisting entirely of two incorporeal people. 21:28:11 <Phantom_Hoover> what about a universe where everyone is a humanities student 21:28:58 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:35:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:54:42 <shachaf> `le/rn universal property/Universal properties are the best. 21:54:44 <HackEgo> Learned «universal property» 21:55:07 <b_jonas> `? dino 21:55:08 <HackEgo> dino? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:55:45 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:55:52 <HackEgo> monads/Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras. 21:56:26 <b_jonas> `? C++ 21:56:27 <HackEgo> Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people. 21:57:10 -!- Wright has joined. 21:58:04 <Taneb> tswett, while I can imagine an alien culture having much of the same mathematics as us I cannot see it having the same notation 21:58:43 <lemurian> interesting... 21:58:50 <b_jonas> Taneb: exactly. and even if they have the same mathematics actually, but with very different notation, we have to prove rigorously that the two mathematics are the same, 21:59:07 <b_jonas> like, prove that their integers are exactly the same as our integers, etc. 21:59:21 <b_jonas> That's where the portability comes in. 21:59:43 <b_jonas> And very often, the two mathematics won't be the same, but only equivalent. 21:59:48 <lemurian> it might be a completely diferent system, based on qualities and influence, perhaps and less on quantity as something is quantifiable 21:59:54 <b_jonas> And you have to find and prove what the equivalences are exactly. 22:00:48 <b_jonas> I for one also think that they'd probably have our mathematics, but it might take a lot of time to figure out how their notation corresponds to ours and find the equivalences. 22:01:51 <lemurian> i would like to believe that an advanced culture doesnt have the need for such complexity in their number systems 22:02:15 <Taneb> lemurian, unfortunately, we are the most advanced culture we know about 22:02:52 <lemurian> that's a head strong assumption to say humanity is the most advanced culture, 22:03:26 <Taneb> It's certainly the most advanced culture that I know about 22:04:10 <lemurian> same here, but then again our exposure to off-planet culture is virtually non-existant, 22:06:10 <Taneb> My point is, our sample size of advanced cultures is 1 22:06:31 <Taneb> The only assumption we can make of that is that the way we do things is certainly a way to do things 22:06:43 <lemurian> indeed 22:07:02 -!- variable has joined. 22:07:10 <Taneb> So it stands to reason that another advanced culture could do maths in a similar way to us 22:07:29 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:07:37 <Taneb> And as people have probably thought very hard about this, other ways to do mathematics seem not to really exist 22:07:55 <lemurian> eh, i feel it's deeper than just thinking really hard 22:07:58 <Taneb> Or at least not be particularly useful 22:08:27 <b_jonas> lemurian: I didn't necessarily say off-planet 22:08:38 <b_jonas> I include alien future species on Earth 22:09:09 <b_jonas> it's not very likely that we'll meet such species, and even if we will, they might have learnt maths from us 22:09:22 <b_jonas> I'm just saying I don't insist on off-planet 22:10:31 <b_jonas> Taneb: the important part isn't that other ways of doing maths doesn't exist, but that we believe that our way of doing maths actually exists, up to equivalence 22:10:48 <lemurian> yes, it's a belief system 22:12:57 <lemurian> which begs to imply perhaps the physical world which humanity has designed and been architect to, our physical world is only as good as the math systems behind it, and behind any number system are beings who give meaning to that number system, it's as if we are creating mathmatics all of our own projections based on the belief in those systsms as they are agreed upon between beings 22:13:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:14:07 <Taneb> b_jonas, doesn't our way of doing maths trivially exist? 22:15:51 <nys> the key question is whether you can be productive without pythagoras 22:16:10 <Taneb> I think the answer to that is also trivially yes 22:16:11 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 22:16:15 <ais523> Taneb: we don't know it's internally consistent 22:16:24 <Taneb> ais523, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist 22:16:43 <lemurian> lol 22:16:57 <Taneb> The wrong answer is still an answer 22:17:02 <lemurian> its just perspective 22:17:27 <lemurian> one two thre, one of something, then two of that something, and so on 22:17:38 <Taneb> Could we achieve SETI with only naive set theory? 22:17:50 <lemurian> or the influence of that individual item being quantified 22:17:58 <lemurian> is another perspective 22:18:21 <ais523> `addquote <Taneb> Could we achieve SETI with only naive set theory? 22:18:21 <lemurian> i believe so Taneb, it would just look different 22:18:23 <HackEgo> 1242) <Taneb> Could we achieve SETI with only naive set theory? 22:18:31 <b_jonas> Taneb: it's not the way of doing maths that matters here, but the maths we got. the question is whether that maths exists, as in, that it's always existed and we're just discovering it, rather than inventing something new. 22:18:39 <b_jonas> always existed as in timelessly 22:19:45 <Taneb> Ugh, this is dangerously close to philosophy 22:20:01 <b_jonas> of course it is 22:20:12 <zzo38> I would think, whatever alien monsters are studying mathematics, must figure out the same kind of things although it might come out in an entirely different way, completely different notations (if there are any notations at all!), and perhaps might not consider natural numbers as "natural", but it is still going to be the same natural numbers even if it isn't "natural". 22:20:34 <zzo38> Nevertheless natural numbers are a common thing that can get in the mathematics 22:21:41 <zzo38> (For example in category theory you have the finite discrete categories, which add, multiply, exponent just like they are natural numbers.) 22:22:24 <zzo38> At least, that is my opinion. (I don't know everything, either.) 22:22:59 <ais523> zzo38: I find that nonnegative integers are the most common sorts of numbers that I find naturally arising out of esolangs 22:23:07 <lemurian> its good to philosophize and konversate 22:23:12 <ais523> (I don't like saying "natural number" beacuse that's ambiguous) 22:23:20 <lemurian> from time to time, anyway' 22:24:02 <Taneb> `quote unnatural 22:24:03 <HackEgo> 1241) <ais523> after a while doing esolangs, you kind-of forget negative numbers exist <ais523> they're so unnatural 22:24:22 <ais523> that's a good quote, because I didn't realise the pun at the time 22:24:33 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, well obviously, they're the free monoid on one variable 22:24:38 <Phantom_Hoover> i.e. the easiest thing that exists 22:24:56 <ais523> I think some people might have different opinions of "the easiest thing that exists" 22:25:03 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, I know some who would argue that they are in fact the free semigroup on one variable 22:25:12 <b_jonas> If you want to go more specific, my belief is that the first chapters of the Book is an introduction to mathematics in a way that's equivalent to ours, though it might be using very different notation, and of course later chapters of the Book contain mathematics in all other notations too. 22:25:19 <ais523> OK #esoteric please tell me whether monoids and semigroups are the same thing or not 22:25:23 <Taneb> ais523, no 22:25:24 <b_jonas> It even contains mathematics that isn't too natural. 22:25:32 <b_jonas> ais523: I think they aren't 22:25:35 <ais523> I've seen multiple opinions on each side 22:25:36 <Taneb> ais523, monoids are semigroups that have the property of identity 22:25:39 <ais523> if they aren't, then what is the difference? 22:25:46 <variable> ais523: they are not 22:25:46 <ais523> wait, semigroups don't have an identity? 22:25:51 <Taneb> Not neccessarily 22:25:53 <variable> ais523: don't have to 22:25:55 <b_jonas> oh 22:26:11 <b_jonas> so is it an overloaded term like "ring" where some people assume an identity 22:26:12 <b_jonas> ? 22:26:12 <ais523> so they're basically just things that are associative and have no other properties? 22:26:17 <Taneb> Yes 22:26:19 <variable> b 22:26:22 <ais523> rings have two identities :-P 22:26:32 <Taneb> Rings half precisely 1.8 identities 22:26:41 <variable> b_jonas: possibly; I've never heard it said that semi-groups have identities, but wouldn't be shocked if people assume it 22:26:45 <zzo38> What I meant is that it might be considered not as natural at all except those who would study mathematics a lot might think it "natural" in those contexts otherwise you probably won't. But, I agree that it would be the most common to "naturally arise" from many kind of mathematical things. 22:26:47 <b_jonas> hmm, ok 22:26:51 <b_jonas> it's probably not overloaded 22:26:56 <b_jonas> and never means identity required 22:27:02 <b_jonas> because we have "monoid" for that 22:27:10 <variable> b_jonas: sure 22:27:11 <zzo38> Surely, I would think, even alien monsters and whatever else, would figure that out too. 22:27:15 <b_jonas> mind you, we also have ZZ-modulus to mean a ring with identity 22:27:25 <Taneb> b_jonas, or "ring with identity" 22:27:37 <b_jonas> Taneb: nah, that's too many syllables, people are lazy 22:27:47 <b_jonas> Z-module is only two syllables 22:27:54 <b_jonas> um 22:27:56 <b_jonas> three 22:27:58 <b_jonas> not two 22:27:59 <b_jonas> still 22:28:29 <Taneb> Also, I think natural numbers are the set recursively defined as N := finite sequence of N 22:28:44 <zzo38> They might not even have a word (if they have words at all) for subtraction, other than "inverse of addition", for example. 22:28:56 -!- TieSoul has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 22:28:57 <zzo38> Even with that definition, then you need to define the set, sequence, finite, etc 22:30:38 -!- TieSoul has joined. 22:31:32 <zzo38> However, in some stuff in mathematics the "infinite natural numbers" arise just as well as proper natural numbers would 22:32:34 <b_jonas> which kind of infinite natural numbers? 22:33:16 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:34:43 <lemurian> it would imply the kind that increase or decrease endlessly in either direction 22:34:58 -!- heroux has joined. 22:37:34 <zzo38> In other stuff there is the proper natural numbers which aren't infinite 22:37:55 <Taneb> Natural numbers that allow infinity do not have induction 22:39:08 <zzo38> Yes, that is not actually natural numbers, I know, it hasn't the induction (unless you can make the kind that does have induction? I don't quite know) 22:40:30 <zzo38> In category theory you have finite discrete categories, and then there are also infinite discrete categories, and categories which are not discrete categories, but you can still add, multiply, exponent. 22:40:53 <zzo38> Maybe you could also define factorial as a category of bijective endofunctors 22:40:56 <b_jonas> ah, it's that bug again. whew. 22:41:07 <b_jonas> (just some bug in my own stuff) 22:41:22 <b_jonas> I thought it was some other problem. 22:41:55 <zzo38> And, if you have real numbers, you also have the natural numbers because you have the multiplicative and additive identity and you can repeatedly add it up, multiply, exponent, and work just like natural numbers, too. 22:43:12 <zzo38> There are also many other examples of how you will arise natural numbers out of mathematics, probably including many that I don't know, and perhaps other people also don't know yet 22:43:33 <zzo38> See? What do *you* think??? 22:55:25 <Sgeo> I think IVN is terrible 22:55:47 <tswett> I've discovered how to define a mathematical textbook. 22:55:58 <tswett> A mathematical textbook is a mathematical paper which contains at least one exercise. 22:56:49 <tswett> Now, I can imagine an alien culture failing to define the concept of an infinite set. 22:57:02 <tswett> (Rather, failing to define the concept of a set in such a way that there exist infinite sets.) 22:57:30 <zzo38> Yes, but maybe there must be some mathematical way to do it, but perhaps what seems obviously to them is something quite different to our own. 22:58:15 <tswett> They'd express Euclid's theorem the way that Euclid did. 22:58:23 <tswett> "For every set of prime numbers, there is a prime number not in the set." 22:58:45 <zzo38> Yes, like that is a way 22:59:14 <zzo38> That is good too 23:24:24 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:40:04 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:47:07 <oren> just had a phone technical interview 23:47:30 <oren> "What is the command to tell what directory you are in?" 23:48:14 <zzo38> On UNIX it is pwd and on DOS/Windows it is CD 23:48:19 <oren> "What is the difference between TCP and UDP?" 23:48:25 <oren> zzo38: I know 23:48:37 <shachaf> What is the difference between TCP and UDP? 23:48:59 <shachaf> One time I had a job interview where they probably decided not to hire me because I said wrong things about TCP. 23:49:09 <shachaf> Or maybe not. 23:49:10 <b_jonas> oren: see https://rekrowten.wordpress.com/list-of-network-jokes/ 23:49:21 <b_jonas> specifically the TCP & UDP section 23:49:56 <oren> lol 23:54:28 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 23:59:15 <quintopia> hmm where is boily 2015-06-09: 00:07:42 <tswett> I scoured the TCP & UDP section to make sure it didn't contain "I'd tell you a UDP joke, but you might not get it." 00:08:04 <tswett> That joke is incorrect. It implies that TCP guarantees delivery. This is not the case. 00:08:51 <shachaf> That joke is not incorrect. 00:09:16 <tswett> No? 00:10:01 <ais523> does TCP guarantee that if the recipient doesn't get a packet, they won't get any subsequent packets either? 00:10:07 <zzo38> Doesn't seem to imply that from the joke? 00:10:22 <zzo38> It says nothing about TCP anyways 00:10:30 <tswett> ais523: pretty sure, yeah. 00:11:26 <tswett> What's the nice thing about a UDP joke? If you don't get it, you don't have to hear it again and again until you do. 00:11:37 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:12:31 <shachaf> ais523: Well, a byte in the TCP stream, not a packet. 00:12:37 <ais523> shachaf: err, yes 00:16:43 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:21:12 -!- heroux has joined. 00:32:01 -!- Herbalist has joined. 00:32:03 -!- Herbalist has quit (Changing host). 00:32:03 -!- Herbalist has joined. 00:34:21 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 00:39:08 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:40:40 -!- bb010g has joined. 00:44:18 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:46:39 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 00:47:54 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Client Quit). 00:50:47 <oren> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF 00:51:00 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 00:51:16 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Client Quit). 00:51:51 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 00:52:03 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Client Quit). 00:52:19 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 00:52:44 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Client Quit). 00:56:06 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 00:56:09 -!- Wright has joined. 00:57:47 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Client Quit). 01:01:03 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 01:01:52 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:07:41 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:08:26 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 01:09:30 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 01:10:30 <oerjan> `? willkommen 01:10:34 <HackEgo> Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen besuchen Sie das Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf irc.dal.net.) 01:11:03 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/auf .*/auf EFnet oder DALnet.)/' wisdom/willkommen 01:11:04 <HackEgo> No output. 01:11:07 <oerjan> `? willkommen 01:11:08 <HackEgo> Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen besuchen Sie das Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf EFnet oder DALnet.) 01:21:54 <oerjan> `ls -l canary 01:21:55 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 01:22:01 <oerjan> `` ls -l canary 01:22:04 <HackEgo> total 0 \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 1 Jun 8 20:21 canary -> . 01:23:08 <oerjan> `` echo test >test; rm canary; mv test canary 01:23:10 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `canary': Is a directory 01:23:26 <oerjan> wat 01:23:31 <oerjan> `` ls -l canary 01:23:32 <HackEgo> total 4 \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 1 Jun 8 20:21 canary -> . \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 5 Jun 9 01:24 test 01:24:19 <oerjan> `` which rm 01:24:22 <HackEgo> ​/bin/rm 01:24:55 <oerjan> `` rm canary; echo test >canary 01:24:56 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `canary': Is a directory \ bash: canary: Is a directory 01:25:00 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:25:04 <oerjan> htf did this happen 01:25:36 <oerjan> `ls 01:25:37 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ script.py \ share \ src \ twolines \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom 01:26:05 <oerjan> `` mv canary/test . 01:26:07 <HackEgo> No output. 01:26:18 <oerjan> `` ls -lL canary 01:26:18 <HackEgo> total 4 \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Jun 9 01:27 canary 01:26:48 -!- yorick has joined. 01:26:57 <oerjan> `` ls rmdir canary; echo hm >canary 01:26:58 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access rmdir: No such file or directory \ canary: \ canary \ bash: canary: Is a directory 01:27:05 <oerjan> `` rmdir canary; echo hm >canary 01:27:06 <HackEgo> rmdir: failed to remove `canary': Directory not empty \ bash: canary: Is a directory 01:27:15 <oerjan> `` ls canary 01:27:15 <HackEgo> canary 01:27:22 <oerjan> oh duh 01:27:32 <oerjan> `` rm canary/canary 01:27:34 <HackEgo> No output. 01:27:51 <oerjan> `` rmdir canary; echo hm >canary 01:27:52 <HackEgo> rmdir: failed to remove `canary': No such file or directory 01:28:02 <oerjan> `` ls canary 01:28:03 <HackEgo> canary 01:28:10 <oerjan> `` ls -l canary 01:28:11 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 3 Jun 9 01:29 canary 01:28:18 <oerjan> `cat canary 01:28:19 <HackEgo> hm 01:28:47 <oerjan> `ls test 01:28:48 <HackEgo> test 01:29:24 <oerjan> `` rm canary; mv test canary 01:29:26 <HackEgo> No output. 01:29:32 <oerjan> `` ls -l canary 01:29:32 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 5 Jun 9 01:31 canary 01:29:37 <oerjan> `` ls test 01:29:38 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access test: No such file or directory 01:29:48 <oerjan> `` cat canary 01:29:49 <HackEgo> test 01:29:52 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 01:30:23 <oerjan> oh well 01:31:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:33:23 <oerjan> `cat bin/complain 01:33:26 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input "$@" >> Complaints; echo Complaint filed. Thank you. 01:34:44 -!- hilquias has joined. 01:37:10 <oerjan> `revert 5484 01:37:17 <HackEgo> Done. 01:37:23 <oerjan> `` ls -l canary 01:37:23 <HackEgo> total 0 \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 1 Jun 9 01:38 canary -> . 01:38:25 <ais523> oerjan: what are you trying to do? 01:39:11 <oerjan> just testing if there was a loophole in the canary checking 01:39:37 <oerjan> which there didn't seem to be, but first i had to undo the mess y'all created today 01:40:12 <ais523> it was mostly me 01:40:31 <ais523> I wanted to make the canary a symlink to itself but it can't be a symlink 01:40:54 <oerjan> did you test making it a symlink to something else? 01:41:57 <oerjan> (otherwise i'm going to call the evidence insufficient) 01:42:06 <ais523> no, but I'm pretty sure that that was the problem 01:42:16 <oerjan> `revert 01:42:17 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:42:26 <oerjan> wat 01:42:32 <oerjan> `` ls -l canary 01:42:32 <ais523> `` ls -l canary 01:42:33 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 5 Jun 9 01:43 canary 01:42:33 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 5 Jun 9 01:43 canary 01:42:41 <ais523> `cat canary 01:42:42 <HackEgo> test 01:42:59 <ais523> `` (rm canary; ln -s /bin/wisdom canary; ls -l canary) 01:43:01 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 11 Jun 9 01:44 canary -> /bin/wisdom 01:43:06 <ais523> `` ls -l canary 01:43:07 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 5 Jun 9 01:44 canary 01:43:11 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 01:43:13 <ais523> is that sufficient for you? 01:43:14 <oerjan> OKAY 01:43:16 <ais523> `revert 5484 01:43:17 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 01:43:39 <oerjan> `` ls -l canary 01:43:39 <HackEgo> total 0 \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 1 Jun 9 01:44 canary -> . 01:46:14 <oerjan> <ais523> could we exploit this to delete the canary <-- oh you had the same idea :P 01:57:49 <oren> you know your macros have gone too far when you start needing to use a macro like 01:58:01 <oren> #define ap 01:58:12 <oren> #define ap(a,b...) a(b) 01:58:16 <oren> #define ap2(a,b...) a(b) 01:58:18 <oren> #define ap3(a,b...) a(b) 01:58:21 <oren> and so on 01:59:09 <zzo38> Are you sure? 01:59:51 <zzo38> Sometimes you would want to define macro in two difference ways to parse include files in many different ways. 02:00:24 <ais523> oren: that's GNU syntax right? 02:00:28 <oren> yeah 02:00:31 <ais523> and I assume you have to use multiple different macros so that you can nest them? 02:00:39 <oren> yes 02:01:14 <ais523> hmm, can you use macro expansion to produce the line number part of #line directives? 02:01:24 <ais523> if so, you could probably include the same file multiple times with different line numbers 02:01:41 <ais523> and then use token pasting and recursive includes to create different macro variants 02:01:49 <ais523> except that the left half of a #define can't be macro-expanded, meh 02:04:20 <oren> I think there's an option to gcc to run the preprocessor twice? 02:05:19 <ais523> still wouldn't work, I think 02:05:41 <ais523> if gcc had an option to run the preprocessor repeatedly until it reached a fixed point, on the other hand… 02:06:37 <pikhq> Yeah, that's been demonstrated. 02:06:53 <zzo38> Or if you can allowed to make _CPP("x(%d)",42) to allow it to execute preprocessor again a second time and expand x(42) into its place instead. 02:07:01 <pikhq> Someone actually submitted to IOCCC something that was TC in such an environment IIRC. 02:09:02 <pikhq> Ah yes, http://www.ioccc.org/2001/herrmann1.hint 02:32:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:35:52 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:42:48 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:43:07 -!- tromp has joined. 02:45:27 <Wallacoloo> Are there any esoteric instruction sets out there in which the instruction length is 1-bit? 02:45:41 <constant> Wallacoloo: yes 02:46:00 <constant> Wallacoloo: there is http://esolangs.org/wiki/TOD (language, not ISA) but there are also 1-bit instruction length arches 02:47:18 <Wallacoloo> That's terrifying! 02:47:52 <ais523> there's also the various 1L variants 02:48:06 <ais523> although those are two-dimensional 02:48:25 <Wallacoloo> I'm pretty new here, ais523: what's 1L? 02:48:28 <ais523> and the turning tarpits 02:48:31 <ais523> TOD is basiaclly one of those 02:48:35 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/1L 02:49:04 <Wallacoloo> Oh, I see. 02:53:51 <Wallacoloo> So the idea that most intrigues me is something like bit-bit-jump, in which the underlying system doesn't really need to implement any logic functions (i.e. no ALU, no counters like a PC), but reduced to a 1-bit instruction length. I've been trying to think of ways to achieve that, but to no avail yet. 02:55:02 <ais523> hmm, this reminds me of http://esolangs.org/wiki/MiniMAX but that doesn't scale down to one bit 02:59:18 <Wallacoloo> ais523: Similar, although that one requires the interpreter / circuitry to implement an adder (for the relative jumps). 02:59:42 <ais523> Wallacoloo: yes 02:59:57 <ais523> the idea behind minimax is that all the operations it needs happen to be single x86 instructions 03:00:01 <ais523> (if ones that aren't used that much) 03:03:51 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:04:30 -!- bb010g has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:04:31 -!- supay has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 03:04:34 -!- ocharles_ has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 03:07:53 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: X_X). 03:37:16 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 03:44:33 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:48:08 -!- Gregor has joined. 04:05:40 -!- constant has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:07:27 -!- variable has joined. 04:11:07 <quintopia> ais523: jot is 1bit isn't it? 04:11:21 <ais523> quintopia: oh yes, I hadn't thought of that 04:11:31 <ais523> although it doesn't really have two commands, so much as one command and an opening paren 04:11:38 <ais523> (you can figure out where the closing ones are by context) 04:11:48 <ais523> so it's a tree structure rather than a linear program 04:11:51 <ais523> Wallacoloo: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Jot 04:12:29 <quintopia> ais523: but an opening parenthesis is an operator. push to stack or w/e. 04:13:02 <ais523> quintopia: forward-polish is quite hard to express as a stack machine 04:13:07 <ais523> I guess "jot written backwards" works 04:13:28 <quintopia> hmm...or "jot read backwards"? 04:13:55 <zzo38> In the Dungeons&Dragons game I tend to use both mundane and magical stuff to accomplish something, but this can include powers that are not my own such as hiding a wand I have stolen (I didn't know its function) under a door (which I have previously cast mirror object on to reverse its hinges), so that when they open it the wand will affect them, or deliberately standing in the opponent's slowing field and firing a flaming arrow, in order to trick t 04:14:02 <ais523> quintopia: I guess that's a different but equivalent langauge 04:14:54 <quintopia> thanks zzo38, now i want to play a round of delver, but i need to go to bed... 04:16:57 -!- password2 has joined. 04:18:38 <zzo38> Usually the mundane though when it seem possible or easily enough, including using mundane utilities on magical stuff (such as writing additional tally marks on a magical device I do not own), or that there are various costs associated with magical powers, such as time (for everything really though), using up slots/power-points (except for mind-blast which uses only time, and anti-magic amulet which must disable everyone's magic including my own, an 04:20:45 <zzo38> Or sometimes I put in my own costs/limitations to make it more interesting. 04:23:34 <zzo38> The magic might also be suppressed, interrupted, altered, or countered, though; those are other thing to consider when dealing with maical stuff...!!! 04:24:11 <Wallacoloo> asi523 / quintopia: Thanks for the link. Regardless, Jot looks interesting, though it's gonna take me some time to figure it out since I'm not familiar with the system being used to describe the language's grammar. 04:33:13 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:40:32 <quintopia> Wallacoloo: there's also https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bitwise_Cyclic_Tag if you're okay with a separate data queue. 04:44:56 <shachaf> `wisdom 04:44:58 <HackEgo> output/ 04:45:31 <shachaf> Oh, I get it. 04:45:33 <shachaf> `? output 04:45:34 <HackEgo> No output. 04:45:49 <Wallacoloo> quintopia: Interesting! 04:48:38 <shachaf> `wisdom 04:48:39 <HackEgo> fact/facts are lies. They are not there. Go away! 04:49:05 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:57:10 <ais523> BCT is glorious 04:57:19 <ais523> actually is BCT turing-complete starting from an empty queue? 04:57:28 <ais523> it has three commands, though, really 04:57:30 <ais523> not two 04:59:30 <oerjan> since the action on an empty queue is always to halt immediately... 04:59:51 <oerjan> or hm 05:00:22 <oerjan> yes. 05:00:58 <oerjan> also, neither command can work on an empty queue. 05:13:20 <zzo38> `wisdom 05:13:21 <HackEgo> endomorphism/Endomorphisms are just morphisms which compose with themselves. 05:14:00 <zzo38> Is my definition of a factorial of a category correct, or is it all wrong? 05:17:20 <oerjan> ^bool 05:17:20 <fungot> No. 05:19:17 <zzo38> What are you trying to do, toss a coin? 05:24:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:24:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 05:27:45 <oerjan> zzo38: asking fungot the answer to your question, hth 05:27:45 <fungot> oerjan: there's a good reason to learn the scheme way 05:33:51 -!- tromp has joined. 05:35:10 <zzo38> oerjan: That isn't a very good way you should try to answer the question properly 05:36:02 <shachaf> zzo38: What is your definition of a factorial of a category? 05:36:20 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:36:48 <oerjan> zzo38: no i shouldn't, my brain wouldn't be able to. also what shachaf said. 05:37:33 <ais523> how is ^bool implemented? hardcoded funge? 05:37:54 <ais523> neither BF nor Underload can even do PRNGs in a one-time-run process because they have no way to seed 05:38:03 <oerjan> ais523: it has to be, neither interpreted language supports it 05:38:16 <ais523> ^show bool 05:38:16 <shachaf> Another option is that it always says No. 05:38:28 <ais523> ^show prefixes 05:38:28 <fungot> (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !)S 05:38:29 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:38:37 <ais523> yep, ^show would have worked if it wasn't hardcoded 05:41:02 <zzo38> I defined as the category of bijective endofunctors of category 05:45:10 -!- gde33 has joined. 05:50:55 <oerjan> zzo38: sounds reasonable for finite sets at least 06:07:31 <zzo38> And then how to do with infinite sets? 06:24:07 -!- scoofy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:32:10 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:32:14 -!- bb010g has joined. 06:33:04 <Deewiant> ais523: https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98#L202 06:33:05 <fungot> Deewiant: i was going to mention another idea: provide an environment where all modifiers function has been given a meaning ( at runtime) before it's encountered in program flow, like, well, 44 fixed the properties dialog." 06:37:47 -!- ocharles_ has joined. 06:46:40 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:49:15 <Sgeo_> Maybe I should just learn VRML 06:51:47 -!- glowcoil has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:51:47 -!- mbrcknl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:53:03 -!- a2 has joined. 07:02:10 -!- supay has joined. 07:02:48 -!- edwardk has joined. 07:02:51 -!- glowcoil has joined. 07:06:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ETc.). 07:08:20 -!- a2 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 07:08:39 -!- a2 has joined. 07:23:19 -!- tromp has joined. 07:27:28 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:28:11 -!- mbrcknl has joined. 07:49:55 -!- evalj has joined. 07:53:33 <mroman_> fnord morning everybody 07:55:35 <mroman_> `cat bin/Complaints 07:55:41 <HackEgo> cat: bin/Complaints: No such file or directory 07:55:47 <mroman_> `run find ./ | grep Complaints 07:55:50 <HackEgo> No output. 07:55:55 <mroman_> `run find ./ | grep compl 07:55:57 <HackEgo> ​./bin/complaints \ ./bin/complain \ ./.hg/store/data/complaints.i \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/complaints.i \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/complain.i \ ./.hg/store/data/git-master/contrib/completion \ ./.hg/store/data/git-master/contrib/completion/git-completion.tcsh.i \ ./.hg/store/data/git-master/contrib/completion/git-completion.bash.i \ ./.hg/store/data/g 07:56:08 <mroman_> `cat ./bin/complaints 07:56:09 <HackEgo> wc -l Complaints 07:56:13 <ais523> I thought `complain sent it to /dev/null 07:56:15 <ais523> maybe not? 07:56:21 <mroman_> `run wc -l Complaints 07:56:22 <HackEgo> wc: Complaints: No such file or directory 07:56:27 <mroman_> `complaints 07:56:28 <HackEgo> wc: Complaints: No such file or directory 07:56:41 <ais523> `cat bin/complain 07:56:42 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input "$@" >> Complaints; echo Complaint filed. Thank you. 07:56:53 <ais523> hmm, I wonder how new that is 07:57:24 <mroman_> `ls Complaints 07:57:25 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access Complaints: No such file or directory 07:57:44 <mroman_> `run echo Hi >> Complaints 07:57:49 <HackEgo> No output. 07:57:52 <mroman_> `cat Complaints 07:57:53 <HackEgo> Hi 07:58:03 <mroman_> hu 07:58:08 <mroman_> `complain Bye 07:58:10 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you. 07:58:12 <mroman_> `cat Complaints 07:58:12 <HackEgo> Hi \ Bye 07:58:26 <mroman_> `run echo > Complaints 07:58:28 <HackEgo> No output. 07:58:29 <mroman_> `cat Complaints 07:58:29 <HackEgo> No output. 07:59:31 -!- zadock has joined. 08:03:52 <mroman_> I hope the "legacy tax" passes this weekend. 08:05:37 <mroman_> I like how they say that it's a "family unfriendly"-tax 08:07:03 <mroman_> Because I doubt most families have enough to bequeath for the legacy tax being applied to it. 08:07:22 <mroman_> Since it is only applied for >2. Mio. 08:11:35 <mroman_> except that it is retroactive (?). That's not really a nice thing to do. 08:12:57 <oren> mroman: the rich families can hide their money in a foriegn bank, can't they? 08:13:06 <mroman_> Probably 08:13:17 <mroman_> but the new "legacy tax" would actually be less than what most Cantons have 08:13:28 <mroman_> most cantons have around 25% to 30% legacy tax 08:13:40 <mroman_> whereas the new state wide legacy tax would only be 20% 08:13:53 <mroman_> (which is why most Cantons don't really want that because it means they'll loose money) 08:14:01 <mroman_> so rich people generally profit from this. 08:14:15 <oren> I think taxing the rich usually doesn't do much good because the rich are so mobile 08:14:44 <mroman_> Well, if you're rich then this new tax shouldn't bother you 08:14:51 <mroman_> because the new tax will be less 08:15:13 <oren> I meant in general 08:16:44 <mroman_> The super rich ones are certainly very mobile, yes. 08:20:40 <mroman_> oh wait 08:20:58 <mroman_> most cantons don't have a legacy tax for passing it on to direct children 08:21:56 <mroman_> with the new tax you can pass on 4 Mio. to your children tax-free. 08:22:41 <mroman_> oren: I think the general argument is that since everybody has to pay tax on what he earns peolpe who "earn" money by inherting it should do the same 08:22:48 <mroman_> *people 08:24:07 <mroman_> oren: not only the rich ones. You could hide money as well. 08:24:51 <mroman_> but wealth tax is so low that somebody with just a little money doesn't really have enough incentive to do that. 08:28:20 <mroman_> "95% of all humans are sick" 08:28:26 <mroman_> Well, that doesn't surprise me at all. 08:29:03 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:29:46 <mroman_> A lot of people already have Myopia/Hyperopia 08:30:04 <mroman_> I'm surprised it isn't 99.314159% 08:30:55 <mroman_> " Myopia prevalence was re- ported to be 50.3 " 08:33:06 <mroman_> also on average one ot ouf 10 has diabetes 08:33:09 <mroman_> *out 08:33:11 <mroman_> *of 08:33:36 <mroman_> although that depends on the country you live in 08:33:45 <mroman_> some apparentely have a prevalence of up to 20%. 08:34:00 <mroman_> fungot: Do you love statistics as much as I do? 08:34:01 <fungot> mroman_: welcome back riastradh, you have 1 message. riastradh says: i've just started eatting meat again, i managed to read 08:34:58 -!- tromp has joined. 08:35:31 <mroman_> oh. and don't forget caries. 08:37:50 <mroman_> Unfunny fact: People get sicker the older they get. 08:39:33 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:44:50 <mroman_> Do specific phobias count as a single condition or a condition for each specific phobia? 08:45:51 <zzo38> What kind of specific phobias? 08:47:42 <mroman_> arachnophobia and the like 08:48:04 <mroman_> It's technically a medical condition. 08:49:01 <zzo38> I don't know the answer 08:49:40 <zzo38> But, maybe, there are cases where it is a single condition as well as cases where the condition is separate. I don't really know, though. 08:51:01 <mroman_> There are cases, yes. 08:51:18 <mroman_> For example if it's an underlying personality disorder or a general anxiety disorder 08:51:38 <mroman_> and they count "headache" as a disease as well. 08:51:44 <mroman_> who doesn't have headaches 08:52:17 <mroman_> although I'm not sure if they only count chronic headaches 08:52:24 <mroman_> such as "almost daily" 08:52:51 <mroman_> It's a huge study 08:52:54 <mroman_> http://www.who.int/healthinfo/global_burden_disease/2004_report_update/en/ 08:54:15 <mroman_> infertility is a class 3 disability 08:55:46 <mroman_> iron-deficiency is very common 09:00:30 <oren> cataracts are also probably very common 09:02:01 <oren> I only have 25/20 vision because of cataracts 09:02:31 <oren> or wait what order do the number go in? 09:03:02 <mroman_> 53.8 Mio. 09:03:13 <mroman_> is the world-wide prevalence of cataract 09:03:50 <mroman_> the most common listed disability in that list is hearing loss 09:04:03 <mroman_> mostly because old people tend to get hearing loss 09:04:44 <mroman_> compared to 125 Mio. people with alcohol abuse 09:04:56 <mroman_> or >1000 Mio. with iron-deficiency 09:05:46 <oren> one of my friends has abnormally sensitive hearing. I wear earbuds and listen to music, and he can listen to it and pick out the lyrics. He can't stand anywhere near a speaker playing music even at normal volume 09:05:53 <zzo38> I made up character page of level20.tex in All The Tropes by now, but isn't very good so far, I think 09:06:05 <mroman_> unsurprisingly diarrhoea is really, really common :) 09:06:09 <oren> lol 09:06:23 <oren> Well yeah, a lot of people get it from milk 09:06:28 <mroman_> 4620 Mio. 09:06:34 <zzo38> Do you know how to make up any Magic: the Puzzling too? 09:07:00 <mroman_> oren: although most people have abnormally insensitive hearing 09:07:12 <mroman_> when I watch TV and somebody else joins they usually double the volume 09:07:31 <mroman_> I blame too loud music in clubs. 09:07:33 <zzo38> If you make up Magic: the Puzzling and make it into a book, I will buy it. If Wizards of the Coast were to make such book I would buy them too. 09:07:34 <oren> abnormally sensitive hearing probably counts as a disability 09:07:38 <mroman_> (And I don't go the clubs obviously) 09:07:44 <mroman_> *go to 09:07:53 <mroman_> oren: It is. 09:08:11 <oren> my friend can't stand being in front of a club let alone enter it 09:08:16 <mroman_> because it's really distressing and annoying. 09:08:37 <mroman_> You're friend probably couldn't sleep where I do :) 09:08:40 <mroman_> *Your 09:09:10 <mroman_> lots of traffic and an old house with not very sound proof walls and not very sound proof windows 09:09:29 <mroman_> you can sleep with the windows open 09:09:31 <mroman_> that's the good thing 09:09:37 <mroman_> because closing them doesn't do shit to the noise 09:10:15 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:11:09 <mroman_> also there's an outdoor pool very near 09:11:17 <oren> WOOOOOO! 09:11:20 <oren> SPLOOSH 09:11:21 <mroman_> so you can always hear the kids there 09:11:36 <mroman_> (public outdoor bath. I don't know what you guys call that) 09:11:49 <mroman_> "lido" 09:12:02 <mroman_> in summer you can hear them all day long screaming :) 09:12:09 <oren> swimming pool? 09:12:15 <mroman_> outdoor swimming pool 09:12:26 <mroman_> (no roof) 09:13:06 <mroman_> there's also a soccer field nearby 09:13:14 <mroman_> so you can hear the fans screaming when a match is on :) 09:13:35 <oren> There are cafe 09:13:37 <mroman_> outdoor swimming pool is within 5min walking distance, soccer field also within 5min walking distance 09:13:53 <mroman_> ice rink within 5min walking distance 09:14:00 <mroman_> shopping centre within 5min walking distance :) 09:14:30 <mroman_> pretty much everything you need is within 5min walking distance 09:14:35 <oren> I live in a very loud neighbourhood (lots of clubs) but my house was built with thick walls and double glass windows 09:15:20 <oren> I guess it's only loud at night, really. 09:16:41 <oren> The loudest thing is, you can always hear some tiny dick moron revving a motorcycle. 09:17:38 <mroman_> also there's a bouldering hall within 5min 09:17:39 <oren> they take the dampers off to make it louder 09:17:46 <mroman_> but that one costs 25k a year 09:17:48 <mroman_> I mean wtf 09:17:49 <mroman_> 25k 09:17:51 <mroman_> seriously 09:18:12 <mroman_> is it made out of platin? 09:18:41 <mroman_> oren: yeah or guys driving 50km/h in first gear just so the motor is howling 09:33:30 <mroman_> Hm. There's going to be a talk about "Augmented Reflection Technology for Upper Limb Stroke Rehabilitation" at my university 09:42:17 -!- bunbunbot has joined. 09:42:22 <mroman_> ^\blsq 2ro 09:42:23 <bunbunbot> {1 2} 09:42:28 <mroman_> ^\gulf :2 09:42:28 <bunbunbot> [1 2] 09:42:39 <mroman_> ^\gulf ,:3R{,p+p 09:42:39 <bunbunbot> 6 09:43:13 <mroman_> ^\gulf ,:6R{,p*p 09:43:14 <bunbunbot> 720 09:43:31 <mroman_> ^\blsq 6ro{?*}r[ 09:43:31 <bunbunbot> 720 09:45:35 -!- bunbunbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:49:50 <mroman_> neat :) 10:09:30 <mroman_> I hate it when websites like slashdot push my CPU to 100% because of some stupid flash ads 10:10:00 <ais523> mroman_: use a plugin that disables Flash until you interact with it (typically clicking)? 10:10:10 <ais523> that feature even comes standard with some browsers nowadays 10:10:22 <ais523> and doesn't impact your ability to use Flash for its legitimate uses, it's just one more click 10:11:34 <Jafet> The solution is even simpler if you don't believe that flash has legitimate uses 10:12:03 <ais523> Jafet: I have an entirely separate browser for Flash- and JS-heavy sites 10:12:11 <ais523> and have Flash not installed and JS disabled by default in my main browser 10:13:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:23:47 -!- tromp has joined. 10:24:35 <mroman_> Good luck with all the angular.js sites then 10:25:40 -!- boily has joined. 10:28:29 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:53:18 <mroman_> is there a unix tool to encode files into b64? 10:53:41 <ais523> mroman_: base64 10:53:51 <ais523> (is the name of the tool, it's not me correcting you) 10:58:22 <Melvar> What does it mean when quickcheck gives up? 11:17:02 * boily mapoles firefox with great force “AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!” 11:24:39 -!- tromp has joined. 11:28:31 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SYLVESTRE CHICKEN). 11:29:43 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:40:19 -!- scoofy has joined. 11:49:54 <mroman_> the problem is that desktop apps were poorly programmed so they mess up your computer 11:50:08 <mroman_> nowadays you can still poorly program them but since they are websites now they don't mess up your computer :) 11:56:09 <mroman_> @hoogle Pipe 11:56:10 <lambdabot> package Pipe 11:56:10 <lambdabot> System.Posix.Files.ByteString PipeBufferLimit :: PathVar 11:56:10 <lambdabot> System.Posix.Files PipeBufferLimit :: PathVar 11:56:15 <mroman_> @hoogle Effect 11:56:15 <lambdabot> package effect-handlers 11:56:16 <lambdabot> package effect-monad 11:56:16 <lambdabot> package effective-aspects 11:58:25 <mroman_> @hoogle yield 11:58:27 <lambdabot> Control.Concurrent yield :: IO () 11:58:27 <lambdabot> GHC.Conc.Sync yield :: IO () 11:58:27 <lambdabot> GHC.Conc yield :: IO () 11:58:49 <mroman_> hm. 11:58:59 <mroman_> https://medium.com/@folsen/haskell-in-production-bdellium-1df48de40e19 11:59:11 <mroman_> ^- I guess these Pipes and stuff are proprietary then 12:11:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:25:35 -!- tromp has joined. 12:29:59 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:30:14 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:30:17 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:48:05 -!- tromp has joined. 12:56:06 <J_Arcane> mroman_: Phrases like this are precisely what started to depress me about my employment options in FP: "Bdellium is a small company in the financial services sector providing analytics and reporting tools mainly to the US retirement industry." 13:27:13 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:29:25 -!- lemurian has quit (Changing host). 13:29:25 -!- lemurian has joined. 13:34:27 -!- Wright has joined. 13:42:06 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:06:28 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:18:39 -!- hjulle has joined. 14:27:26 -!- Welo has joined. 14:35:57 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:11:34 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:11:45 -!- variable has joined. 15:14:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:16:34 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 15:22:50 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:29:11 -!- variable has joined. 15:42:00 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:42:02 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:54:34 <Taneb> The other day I had a ridiculous idea that probably has been thought of before 15:54:49 <Taneb> newtype Nat = Nat [Nat] 15:56:17 <Taneb> (where all lists are finite and have finite depth) 15:56:59 <shachaf> Why is that called Nat? 15:57:35 <Taneb> It is isomorphic to the natural numebrs 15:57:49 <Taneb> Or rather, it is a representation of the natural numbers 15:58:18 <shachaf> Isomorphic in that it's an infinite countable set? 15:58:43 <Taneb> You know you can represent the naturals as bitstrings? 15:58:59 <Taneb> I'm using it as sparse bitstrings 15:59:20 <shachaf> I don't see. 15:59:48 <Taneb> 9 in binary is 1001 16:00:24 <Taneb> I then encode it as "Move right 0 times, write a 1, move right 2 times, write a 1", or [0,2] 16:00:33 <Taneb> Where the elements of that list are in turn natural numbers 16:02:13 -!- KitB has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 16:03:42 <Taneb> Does that make sense? 16:04:38 -!- KitB has joined. 16:06:58 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 16:07:16 <shachaf> Roughly. 16:07:46 <shachaf> another Tanebvention 16:07:55 <Phantom_Hoover> `? tanebventions 16:08:12 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, and this sentence. 16:08:30 <Phantom_Hoover> `? go 16:08:30 <Taneb> I actually invented this, it doesn't go in the list 16:08:31 <HackEgo> Go is a common verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in the strategic territories of East Asia. 16:08:41 <shachaf> Taneb: what are you implying 16:08:48 <Phantom_Hoover> `? torus 16:08:49 <HackEgo> torus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:08:53 <Taneb> `? the torus 16:08:54 <HackEgo> the torus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:08:56 <Phantom_Hoover> what! 16:08:58 <Taneb> `? toru 16:08:59 <HackEgo> toru? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:09:01 <Taneb> !!! 16:09:08 <shachaf> `` ls wisdom/*toru* 16:09:09 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/the torus: Too many levels of symbolic links \ ls: cannot access wisdom/torus: Too many levels of symbolic links 16:09:21 <Melvar> `? weetoflakes 16:09:22 <HackEgo> Weetoflakes are something Taneb invented; they taste sort of purple. 16:09:34 <Phantom_Hoover> `learn Torus? He hardly knew us! he did inventus though 16:09:37 <HackEgo> Learned 'torus?': Torus? He hardly knew us! he did inventus though 16:09:54 <shachaf> `` ls -l wisdom/*torus* 16:09:55 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 5 Apr 15 07:52 wisdom/the torus -> torus \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Jun 7 16:50 wisdom/torus -> the torus \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 49 Jun 9 16:11 wisdom/torus? 16:09:56 <Taneb> I do not think that was quite what you intended, Phantom_Hoover 16:10:09 <Phantom_Hoover> oh fuck 16:10:13 <Phantom_Hoover> `rm wisdom/torus? 16:10:16 <HackEgo> No output. 16:10:19 <Phantom_Hoover> fml 16:10:28 <shachaf> look just get the old entry back 16:10:46 <int-e> `` ls -la canary 16:10:47 <HackEgo> total 8 \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Jun 9 01:44 . \ drwxr-xr-x 16 5000 5000 4096 Jun 9 16:11 .. \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 1 Jun 9 01:44 canary -> . 16:11:03 <Taneb> `help 16:11:03 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 16:11:08 <int-e> `` ls -lad canary 16:11:09 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Jun 9 01:44 canary 16:11:27 <Taneb> I blame oerjan 16:11:45 <Phantom_Hoover> `ln -s wisdom/ngevd /dev/urandom 16:11:46 <HackEgo> ln: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ln --help' for more information. 16:11:49 <int-e> Taneb: I'd be careful with that, he tends to read the logs ;) 16:11:52 <Phantom_Hoover> i tried 16:12:02 <Taneb> int-e, I think he is actually to blame 16:12:09 <int-e> Taneb: I know ;) 16:12:46 -!- atrapado has joined. 16:15:21 <int-e> Taneb: oh, actually it was ais523. oerjan and agent smith had a fight; the agent won. 16:17:43 <Taneb> :( 16:18:59 <int-e> what, why is `complaint no longer dispatching with the complains ... uhm ... efficiently? 16:19:10 <int-e> complaints. 16:21:44 <int-e> `complaints 16:21:45 <HackEgo> 1 Complaints 16:22:07 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:22:08 <int-e> `` true > Complaints 16:22:10 <HackEgo> No output. 16:22:11 <int-e> `complaints 16:22:12 <HackEgo> 0 Complaints 16:23:38 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:23:55 <Taneb> Of the 17 marks I lost in my computability and complexity exam, I lost 1 for being too damn laconic, 5 for an arithmetic error, and 11 for misreading the question 16:24:17 <shachaf> How many marks are there? 16:28:21 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:28:41 -!- Elronnd has left. 16:28:50 -!- Elronnd has joined. 16:30:07 <Taneb> 100 16:33:31 <tswett> ひゅゆうぇん 16:37:13 <tswett> `` ln -s /dev/urandom wisdom/ngevd 16:37:14 <HackEgo> ln: failed to create symbolic link `wisdom/ngevd': File exists 16:37:23 <tswett> `? ngevd 16:37:23 <HackEgo> ​HZa=Lh 16:37:31 <tswett> `rm wisdom/ngevd 16:37:33 <HackEgo> No output. 16:37:39 <tswett> `` ln -s /dev/urandom wisdom/ngevd 16:37:41 <HackEgo> No output. 16:37:47 <tswett> `? ngevd 16:37:47 <HackEgo> ​ͨq\+7CEuƮΔ:YA\ǏcDh=^[X<c~Nz@2CڼyN1Gst%4.3߽:Q2Z}t徕FW! ] uz 16:37:51 <tswett> `? ngevd 16:37:52 <HackEgo> GR]dz`aLʦ9TBL%:2m̐b8W.gD٣>5#t(*_,~끪HkyG]Rn9..Q{[. 16:38:02 <tswett> Frickin' success. 16:42:10 <Taneb> :O 16:43:10 <tswett> `ls /proc 16:43:12 <HackEgo> 1 \ 10 \ 2 \ 281 \ 285 \ 286 \ 287 \ 288 \ 289 \ 290 \ 291 \ 292 \ 3 \ 4 \ 47 \ 49 \ 5 \ 51 \ 6 \ 68 \ 7 \ 76 \ 77 \ 8 \ 9 \ buddyinfo \ bus \ cgroups \ cmdline \ config.gz \ consoles \ cpuinfo \ crypto \ devices \ diskstats \ driver \ execdomains \ exitcode \ filesystems \ fs \ interrupts \ iomem \ ioports \ irq \ kallsyms \ kcore \ kmsg \ kpageco 16:43:25 <tswett> `ls /proc/self 16:43:25 <HackEgo> auxv \ cgroup \ clear_refs \ cmdline \ comm \ coredump_filter \ cpuset \ cwd \ environ \ exe \ fd \ fdinfo \ limits \ maps \ mem \ mountinfo \ mounts \ mountstats \ net \ ns \ oom_adj \ oom_score \ oom_score_adj \ pagemap \ personality \ root \ smaps \ stat \ statm \ status \ task \ wchan 16:43:29 <Taneb> `? torus 16:43:29 <HackEgo> torus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:43:31 <Taneb> :( 16:44:20 <tswett> `` ln -s /proc/self/cmdline wisdom/reflection 16:44:23 <HackEgo> No output. 16:44:25 <tswett> `? reflection 16:44:26 <HackEgo> cat.reflection. 16:44:37 <tswett> ` cat wisdom/reflection 16:44:37 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 16:44:43 <tswett> `` cat wisdom/reflection 16:44:44 <HackEgo> cat.wisdom/reflection. 16:47:23 <tswett> `` read foo < wisdom/reflection; echo "$foo" 16:47:23 <HackEgo> bash 16:48:52 <tswett> The most useful piece of wisdom ever. 16:51:23 -!- scoofy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:52:42 <olsner> `? reflection 16:52:42 <HackEgo> cat.reflection. 16:53:02 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 16:53:06 <olsner> oh right, you did that already 16:53:24 <olsner> and now I see what's happening, that's nice 16:53:25 -!- idris-bot has joined. 17:30:32 -!- variable has joined. 17:32:58 -!- zadock has joined. 17:35:28 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 17:49:48 <b_jonas> wow 17:49:50 <int-e> . o O ( ln -s /proc/self/exe wisdom/binary\ reflection ) 17:50:32 <b_jonas> I heared rumours that this bad style of interviewing exists where the reporter is asking a long list of fixed clichéed questions from a paper and doesn't ever react to what the interviewed replies, 17:50:38 <b_jonas> but I never heared a real example for it. 17:50:46 <b_jonas> This interview is exactly that. 17:50:56 <b_jonas> Where did they get this woman? 17:51:15 <Taneb> Human Resources? 17:51:25 <b_jonas> dunno 17:51:28 <int-e> Maybe it was a Turing Test. She passed. ;) 17:51:36 -!- nycs has joined. 17:51:37 <b_jonas> maybe he looks nice 17:51:41 <b_jonas> that's not obvious through radio 17:52:03 <b_jonas> long enough legs 17:52:14 <olsner> it would've been obvious to the people hiring her 17:52:27 <b_jonas> exactly 17:52:50 <olsner> unless she was hired over the phone, does she have a good voice? 17:53:19 <b_jonas> and it might even have the advantage that he can sometimes get some people to start giving an interview, but what would that be worth if then they get a useless junk interview? 17:53:50 <int-e> oh, pratchett had something to say about this interviewing style... http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/words-from-the-master.html, search for "on interviews" 17:54:09 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:54:13 <b_jonas> int-e: exactly 17:54:50 <b_jonas> like that but longer 18:11:26 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:13:42 <mroman_> fnord 18:14:29 <mroman_> What interview? 18:17:16 <olsner> fungot's 18:17:16 <fungot> olsner: is there documentation about the most depressing site ever. it will let you delete the temporary 18:18:37 <mroman_> Most depressing site ever? 18:19:01 <mroman_> golf.shinh.org 18:19:02 <mroman_> ! 18:19:07 <mroman_> not very active lately 18:19:52 <int-e> I'm over golf.shinh.org 18:20:03 <mroman_> meaning? 18:20:09 <mroman_> You now hunt deer in the forrest? 18:20:11 <int-e> waste of time 18:20:31 <mroman_> That's what hobbies are usually for 18:20:32 <mroman_> wasting time 18:20:41 <mroman_> That's what a Job is for 18:21:12 <int-e> I'm pondering writing a loop finder for combinatory logic. 18:21:23 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:21:33 <mroman_> I'm working on Gulf :) 18:25:03 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:25:07 <oren> My uncle hunts deer and birds sometimes. 18:27:56 -!- fractal has joined. 18:57:59 <mroman_> Hunting is becoming very unpopular. 18:58:10 <mroman_> With all the "how could shoot an unarmed animal"-people around 18:58:17 <mroman_> like there are any armed animals around ... 18:59:42 <mroman_> We live in a time where humans have more empathy for animals than for other humans 19:01:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:17:19 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 19:19:25 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:27:02 <oren> "make your faith for yourself and together. therefore my shrine is keep on exterminating ghosts" how can someone have perfect english pronounciation yet sound so completely stilted 19:30:00 <oren> maybe the lyricist should have consulted the singer for grammar lessons 19:38:38 -!- nys has joined. 19:39:06 <oren> srsly whoever wrote the libretto for this album must have gotten like, 60% in English class 19:42:16 <b_jonas> oren: see current poll question on Irregular Webcomic 19:51:56 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:55:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:01:11 <b_jonas> hehe, a bug report complains that some random generator functions are "unpredictable" 20:01:30 <b_jonas> funny even though it makes sense if you read on 20:05:27 <oren> what, does the same seed not produce the same series all the time? 20:06:49 <b_jonas> oren: something like that, yet 20:06:58 <b_jonas> and the report is also wrong because he hasn't read the docs 20:07:05 <b_jonas> but he does write "unpredictable" in a sane context 20:07:15 <b_jonas> so the report isn't preposterous, just wrong 20:07:32 <b_jonas> he's trying to save rng state and restoring it later, but does it wrong 20:26:13 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:26:56 -!- nycs has joined. 20:28:58 -!- Herbalist has joined. 20:51:40 -!- quietello has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 20:52:53 -!- atrapado has changed nick to atrapa. 20:54:41 -!- atrapa has changed nick to atrapado. 21:00:42 -!- GeekWebChat has joined. 21:00:55 <GeekWebChat> Anyone here try TIS-100 yet? 21:01:30 <zzo38> I did not (yet) what is that? 21:02:11 <GeekWebChat> It's a game where you have to write multithreaded assembly to play 21:02:32 <GeekWebChat> you get up to 12 cores, and each core can only have something around 18 lines of assembly each 21:03:04 <zzo38> OK, what kind of instructions and what kind of winning game and stuff? 21:03:35 <GeekWebChat> you get some input devices to read from, and an output device(s) to write to 21:03:51 <GeekWebChat> they give you instructions on what to do to the input, and the expected outputs 21:04:01 <GeekWebChat> http://www.zachtronics.com/tis-100/ 21:04:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:05:44 <zzo38> OK I will look. 21:09:34 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:11:18 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:11:51 <GeekWebChat> Anyways, I'm writing an emulator for the TIS-100 21:11:59 <GeekWebChat> in python! 21:18:00 <fizzie> I thought of buying it on Steam, but the 10% discount wore off. 21:22:07 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:26:19 <mroman_> fnord night everybody 21:36:15 <GeekWebChat> fizzie: haha, that's why I'm writing an emulator 21:37:00 <GeekWebChat> well, than and the fact that writing an emulator is quite satisfying by itself 21:38:39 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:38:44 -!- boily has joined. 21:39:00 <boily> @metar CYUL 21:39:00 <lambdabot> CYUL 092100Z 29010G15KT 15SM -SHRA SCT033 OVC080 20/17 A2958 RMK SC3AC5 SLP017 DENSITY ALT 1000FT 21:39:32 <boily> my fungot it's only -SHRA, you unweathered Environnement Canada dweebs. 21:39:32 <fungot> boily: welcome back acon, you have to 21:39:50 <boily> fungot: I have to dry, that's what. my feet are wrinkled. 21:39:50 <fungot> boily: g'd nite all 21:39:55 <boily> fungot: 'night! 21:39:55 <fungot> boily: but after expanding the aif it would. but those are only superficial changes. 21:41:17 -!- GeekWebChat has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:41:20 <quintopia> helloily 21:42:02 <quintopia> it's thunder here 21:42:03 <boily> quinthellopia. 21:42:08 <boily> @metar KATL 21:42:08 <lambdabot> KATL 092127Z COR 19014KT 4SM TSRA BR FEW008CB BKN020 OVC070 21/19 A2992 RMK AO2 WSHFT 2058 VIS LWR SE-SW FRQ LTGICCG SE-SW & DSNT NE TS SE-SW & DSNT NE MOV SE P0089 $ 21:42:09 <quintopia> i've gotta go get a suit 21:42:24 <boily> holy fungot that's one metar if I've ever seen one. 21:42:24 <fungot> boily: works fine for me. 21:42:36 <boily> quintopia: suit? 21:42:45 <quintopia> a black suit 21:42:49 <quintopia> for an upcoming funeral 21:42:56 <quintopia> it is waiting on me at the suit store 21:43:30 <boily> oh. 21:43:47 <quintopia> meanwhile all i want to do is watch the one night ultimate werewolf thread because holy fungot is it entertaining 21:43:48 <fungot> quintopia: guile has pretty complete fnord bindings, and i'm not in school, but i don't use a mouse, and so on get's resolved at command time 21:44:58 <quintopia> if you have a few minutes to see what a skillful con game looks like, read it: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=111990 21:45:17 <quintopia> try to guess who the wolves are 21:46:07 <boily> Ō_Ō. 21:46:29 * boily quietly, slowly munches on his pretzels in awe and wonder 21:57:12 <oren> australia is ruined forever for me 21:57:45 <oren> they are getting geothermal energy from a mesozoic basin 21:57:49 <oren> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eromanga_Basin 21:58:03 <shachaf> @metar KOAK 21:58:03 <lambdabot> KOAK 092153Z 30012KT 10SM SCT035 OVC140 20/13 A2989 RMK AO2 SLP120 T02000128 21:58:27 <oren> @metar CYYZ 21:58:28 <lambdabot> CYYZ 092146Z 01004KT 340V040 15SM VCSH SCT055TCU BKN084 21/15 A2972 RMK TCU4AC2 SLP062 DENSITY ALT 1600FT 22:02:19 -!- function has changed nick to trout. 22:03:51 <boily> oren: come to Montréal. it's quite far from Australia. 22:10:56 <boily> quintopia: my brains. they hurt. 22:17:55 -!- trout has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 22:21:16 -!- quietello has joined. 22:22:11 <boily> `relcome quietello 22:22:12 <HackEgo> ​quietello: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 22:23:01 <shachaf> `wisdom 22:23:02 <HackEgo> pizza/Pizza is a kind of rhubarb pie made without rhubarb. 22:23:45 <shachaf> `` hg blame wisdom/pizza 22:23:46 <HackEgo> 1795: Pizza is a kind of rhubarb pie made without rhubarb. 22:23:57 <shachaf> I never realized I could hg blame in HackEgo. 22:24:10 <shachaf> Also apparently I put that wisdom there. 22:24:14 <shachaf> I didn't realize that. 22:24:56 -!- variable has joined. 22:25:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:25:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:35:50 <boily> shachaf: I admit having created some wisdom entries. I wonder who's the most prolific author. 22:35:53 <boily> (also, shellochaf!) 22:36:10 <boily> hellørjan. are you a great wisdomist? 22:36:19 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:36:31 <shachaf> hi boily 22:38:36 <oerjan> boily: a while ago i had the impression i was the only one adding stuff to wisdom and quotes. it's not quite that bad now. 22:39:43 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523> hmm, I wonder how new that is <-- the repository browser is at http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/ 22:39:44 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 22:40:55 <oerjan> @tell ais523 also, i am _not_ to blame for that one hth 22:40:55 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 22:41:45 <boily> which one are you not to be blamed at for what? 22:41:55 <oerjan> the changes to complaint 22:42:08 <oerjan> *complain 22:42:16 <oerjan> and associated files 22:46:12 <oerjan> <mroman_> I hope the "legacy tax" passes this weekend. <-- huh and norway just abolished _our_ inheritance tax... 22:46:21 <oerjan> last year 22:47:42 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 22:49:27 <FireFly> `` hg blame -u wisdom/firefly 22:49:28 <HackEgo> HackBot: FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. 22:49:32 <FireFly> oh wait 22:49:34 <FireFly> right. 22:49:40 <oerjan> fancy 22:50:36 <shachaf> You can get the commit message from hg and figure out the IRC user. 22:50:46 <shachaf> imo write a script to summarize it 22:56:51 <oerjan> @tell mroman_ <mroman_> ^- I guess these Pipes and stuff are proprietary then <-- the pipes package isn't proprietary but hoogle still doesn't index all of hackage. iirc ndm is working on a new version that does that and more. 22:56:51 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 22:59:19 <oerjan> in fact i would have thought he'd have had it up and running by now. 23:01:38 <FireFly> `` hg log -r $(hg annotate wisdom/firefly | cut -d: -f1) | sed -rn '/^summary/ s/^summary:\s*//p' 23:01:39 <HackEgo> ​<Tanea> learn FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. 23:02:00 <shachaf> You probably want hg log, not hg annotate, anyway. 23:02:01 -!- APic\splat has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:02:09 <shachaf> A per-line summary doesn't make sense. 23:02:21 <FireFly> Could be handy to ask for the last commit that changed a given line 23:03:02 <FireFly> `` hg log wisdom/firefly | sed -rn '/^summary/ s/^summary:\s*//p' 23:03:03 <HackEgo> ​<Bike> revert \ <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ <Tanea> learn FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. 23:03:07 <FireFly> oops 23:03:20 <oerjan> `? torus 23:03:21 <HackEgo> torus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:03:30 <oerjan> now to find out wtf went wrong 23:04:36 <oerjan> `` ln -l wisdom/*torus* 23:04:36 <HackEgo> ln: invalid option -- 'l' \ Try `ln --help' for more information. 23:04:42 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/*torus* 23:04:48 <shachaf> oerjan: i already did hth 23:04:48 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 5 Apr 15 07:52 wisdom/the torus -> torus \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Jun 7 16:50 wisdom/torus -> the torus 23:05:16 <oerjan> `undo 5466 23:05:17 <HackEgo> can't find file to patch at input line 4 \ Perhaps you used the wrong -p or --strip option? \ The text leading up to this was: \ -------------------------- \ |diff -r d2fdb9c12e32 -r 673d4139cdaa wisdom/torus \ |--- a/wisdom/torusSun Jun 07 16:47:56 2015 +0000 \ |+++ b/wisdom/torusSun Jun 07 16:50:51 2015 +0000 \ -------------------------- \ File 23:05:33 <oerjan> oh right 23:05:36 <oerjan> `? torus 23:05:36 <HackEgo> torus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:06:17 <oerjan> shachaf: `undo and `revert don't handle links properly, even if hg does :( 23:07:20 <oerjan> `` echo test >wisdom/torus; undo 5462 23:07:21 <HackEgo> bash: wisdom/torus: Too many levels of symbolic links \ can't find file to patch at input line 4 \ Perhaps you used the wrong -p or --strip option? \ The text leading up to this was: \ -------------------------- \ |diff -r 1747ab989893 -r bc50e28c60b5 wisdom/torus \ |--- a/wisdom/torusSun Jun 07 16:36:01 2015 +0000 \ |+++ b/wisdom/torusSun Jun 07 23:07:26 <oerjan> eep 23:07:36 <oerjan> `` rm wisdom/torus; echo test >wisdom/torus; undo 5462 23:07:39 <HackEgo> patching file wisdom/torus 23:07:42 <oerjan> `? torus 23:07:43 <HackEgo> Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented them. 23:07:47 <oerjan> `? the torus 23:07:47 <HackEgo> Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented them. 23:07:52 <oerjan> whee 23:09:25 <oerjan> oh wait why did i do this before i decided whether to revert tswett's changes... 23:16:41 <oerjan> `? reflection 23:16:42 <HackEgo> cat.reflection. 23:17:39 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/reflection 23:17:39 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 18 Jun 9 16:46 wisdom/reflection -> /proc/self/cmdline 23:17:54 <oerjan> is that link likely to break anything? 23:18:09 <shachaf> `` hg blame wisdom/reflection 23:18:10 <HackEgo> 5501: /proc/self/cmdline 23:18:22 <oerjan> shachaf: it's tswett hth 23:18:36 <shachaf> oerjan: i was wondering whether it would break hg blame 23:18:43 <oerjan> did it? 23:18:49 <shachaf> just, like, trying to answer your question, man 23:18:57 <shachaf> why you gotta be a h8r 23:19:35 <oerjan> well i'm thinking about breaking in a more general sense of "why we stopped making wisdom/ngevd link to /dev/urandom" 23:20:11 <oerjan> `` undo 5500; undo 5499 23:20:13 <HackEgo> The next patch, when reversed, would empty out the file wisdom/ngevd, \ which is already empty! Ignore -R? [n] \ Apply anyway? [n] \ Skipping patch. \ 1 out of 1 hunk ignored \ patch: **** File wisdom/ngevd is not a regular file -- can't patch 23:20:23 <oerjan> dammit 23:20:33 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/ngevd 23:20:34 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 12 Jun 9 16:39 wisdom/ngevd -> /dev/urandom 23:20:42 <oerjan> `` undo 5500 23:20:43 <HackEgo> The next patch, when reversed, would empty out the file wisdom/ngevd, \ which is already empty! Ignore -R? [n] \ Apply anyway? [n] \ Skipping patch. \ 1 out of 1 hunk ignored 23:20:53 <oerjan> so annoying 23:20:57 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/ngevd 23:20:57 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 12 Jun 9 16:39 wisdom/ngevd -> /dev/urandom 23:21:03 <oerjan> `rm wisdom/ngevd 23:21:04 <HackEgo> No output. 23:21:10 <oerjan> `undo 5499 23:21:12 <HackEgo> patching file wisdom/ngevd 23:21:18 <oerjan> `? ngevd 23:21:19 <HackEgo> ​ʂ|kޞe}^ \ @y֋6!h{,iGq20߃n3ks~L \ : VkZb$II<nE%U'E8_`2Uw14N4?lM;{d \ HyV3ohz=@¿2L.ѩI*tGV!z@l[Q[<F]GE"Mx7XNI,Xs3gYj61z^pY%inWIߎF"r&uXQ֝\a{mED2AOڇ,K{3zLoHx^!>!}yd{ 23:21:36 <oerjan> fancy 23:21:40 <Phantom_Hoover> i heard that one 23:21:43 <oerjan> `cat wisdom/ngevd 23:21:44 <HackEgo> ngevd is a fake wisdom entry. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ 23:22:54 -!- Wright has joined. 23:24:14 <Phantom_Hoover> oh did i actually manage to fuck it up 23:24:29 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/$/ also tswett‼/' wisdom/ngevd 23:24:33 <HackEgo> No output. 23:24:40 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: um tswett did the changes this time 23:24:52 <Phantom_Hoover> bless you tswett 23:24:55 <Phantom_Hoover> blswett 23:24:55 <oren> why not just special case ngevd in cat instead 23:25:54 <oerjan> oren: um the point is that we want it to be possible to run commands over all of wisdom/* without them breaking, cat is just one small bit of it. 23:26:23 <oren> but ? uses cat right? 23:26:34 <oerjan> oren: ? already has it special cased. 23:27:45 <FireFly> `which cat 23:27:49 <HackEgo> ​/bin/cat 23:28:01 <oerjan> `which ls 23:28:01 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/ls 23:28:13 <oren> uhh... well write a device that is like dev urandom but with a byte limit per process? 23:28:14 <oerjan> IT'S NOT UNPRECEDENTED 23:28:17 <FireFly> `which dog 23:28:18 <HackEgo> No output. 23:28:49 <oerjan> oren: and you expect us to make that survive in HackEgo's brittle repository _how_? 23:29:35 <oren> with, uh, endofunctors? 23:30:02 <oerjan> _weird_ things happen with abnormal files in there... 23:30:11 <boily> you don't say... 23:30:39 <boily> I'm still not touching some of them. ain't gonna PDF them. let some poor other fool do that instead. 23:31:06 <oren> `? template 23:31:07 <HackEgo> template? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:31:12 <oren> `? macro 23:31:13 <HackEgo> macro? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:32:06 <oren> `? coffeescript 23:32:07 <HackEgo> coffeescript? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:32:10 <FireFly> hg has some trouble with symlinks I think 23:32:14 <oren> `? javascript 23:32:14 <HackEgo> javascript? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:32:23 <FireFly> Or did, at some point. Maybe they fixed it 23:33:13 <oerjan> FireFly: they don't reliably survive `revert and `undo, at least. 23:33:29 <oerjan> whether that's hg itself is a different matter. 23:34:32 <oerjan> `` grep test wisdom/* 23:34:33 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/canary: Is a directory \ wisdom/deewiant:Deewiant is the world expert on Befunge conformance testing. \ wisdom/disflagrate:disflagrate v.t.perf.: a traditional technique from Poland (earliest attestation c. 1042) used to separate szoups. Nowadays, commercial production is entirely mechanized. \ wisdom/esosc:esosc is esoteric song conte 23:34:48 <oerjan> `` grep fnord wisdom/* 23:34:49 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/canary: Is a directory \ wisdom/fizzie:fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg \ grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°​_o): Is a directory \ Binary file wisdom/reflection mat 23:34:57 <shachaf> oerjan: grep -r hth 23:35:20 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm not sure that's safe any longer... 23:35:31 <oerjan> `` grep -r fnord wisdom 23:35:32 <HackEgo> wisdom/fizzie:fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg 23:35:51 <oerjan> oh hm 23:35:56 <shachaf> `? #esoteric 23:35:57 <oerjan> `? canary 23:35:58 <HackEgo> ​#esoteric is the only channel that exists. monqy is its centroïd. 23:35:58 <HackEgo> cat: canary: Is a directory 23:36:24 <oerjan> so many people no longer here 23:36:33 <FireFly> `ls wisdom/canary 23:36:34 <HackEgo> canary 23:36:49 <FireFly> `` ls -l wisdom/canary 23:36:50 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Apr 15 07:51 wisdom/canary -> ../canary 23:37:13 <oerjan> `ls wisdom/canary/canary 23:37:14 <HackEgo> canary 23:37:33 <oren> ` ls -lR wisdom/canary 23:37:33 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 23:37:34 <oerjan> i guess grep checks for cycles. still, a bit unnerving. 23:38:07 <boily> oerjan: that's why the Wisdom is important. to remember those who were, and those that will come. 23:38:23 <oren> `? wisdom 23:38:23 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 23:38:24 <oerjan> boily: oooh 23:38:42 <oren> `` ls -lR wisdom/canary 23:38:43 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Apr 15 07:51 wisdom/canary -> ../canary 23:39:03 <shachaf> `le/rn #esoteric/there is no channel but #esoteric. monqy is the cenroïd of #esoteric. 23:39:07 <HackEgo> Learned «#esoteric» 23:39:13 <oerjan> `revert 23:39:21 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 23:39:22 <quintopia> hmmm 23:39:32 <oerjan> wat 23:39:45 <FireFly> `` ls -l canary 23:39:46 <HackEgo> total 0 \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 1 Jun 9 01:44 canary -> . 23:39:51 <FireFly> huh 23:39:52 <quintopia> boily: do you have any guesses as to the wolves? i can tell you. 23:40:09 <oerjan> `revert 23:40:10 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 23:40:22 <oren> Done. 23:40:58 <oerjan> `? #esoteric 23:40:59 <HackEgo> there is no channel but #esoteric. monqy is the cenroïd of #esoteric. 23:41:05 <oerjan> `revert 23:41:09 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 23:41:12 <oerjan> `? #esoteric 23:41:13 <HackEgo> ​#esoteric is the only channel that exists. monqy is its centroïd. 23:41:19 <shachaf> `le/rn #esoteric/#esoteric is the only channel that exists. monqy is its centroïd. 23:41:19 <HackEgo> Learned «#esoteric» 23:41:24 <oren> Are there any commands where evry possible letter is a valid opion 23:41:31 <oren> *option 23:41:46 <FireFly> What does "option" mean in this case? 23:42:24 <oren> like -qwertyuiopsdfghjklzxcvbnm 23:42:47 <oren> are there any commands where all of the letters could be used at once 23:43:11 <shachaf> `true -qwertyuiopsdfghjklzxcvbnm 23:43:12 <HackEgo> No output. 23:43:20 <shachaf> it even works if you add a 23:43:52 <boily> quintopia: vite de même, I think Madge. perhaps Bessie too, but I wouldn't put my hand in a burning fungot about that. Spack's a tanner. 23:43:52 <fungot> boily: i last saw arcus on oct 06 at fnord pm 23:44:09 <boily> quintopia: and according to the 'got, arcus. 23:44:14 <boily> (who's arcus?) 23:45:25 <FireFly> fungot: who's arcus? 23:45:26 <fungot> FireFly: and especially if i need to add a bit of an inconsistency: fnord for open-output-file, two: if-existent if-non-existent. don't know, what you are 23:45:34 <oren> hmm this sucks 23:45:48 <boily> oren: statistically speaking, there should be some version of `tar' out there that supports the whole shebang. 23:45:59 <oerjan> `` rm canary/canary; echo chirp >canary/canary 23:46:01 <HackEgo> No output. 23:46:07 <boily> fungot: it's easy. he's a firefly hth 23:46:08 <fungot> boily: foo markup for tt, mark table rows in recent-changes and edit-history with even/ odd divs so that the ai literally cannot lose, it's different 23:47:02 <oren> bash under xfce4-terminal starts messing up when the lines get past 80 characters. Bash under screen under xfce-terminal works fine 23:47:13 <FireFly> fungot: you can style even and odd rows with CSS these days 23:47:13 <fungot> FireFly: we could book a hotel for all of the srfi process... notably a standard condition system. 23:47:51 <FireFly> `cat canary 23:47:51 <HackEgo> cat: canary: Is a directory 23:48:07 <FireFly> `cat canary/canary 23:48:08 <HackEgo> chirp 23:48:26 <FireFly> Why is it a directory anyway 23:48:38 <oerjan> FireFly: because people in this channel are insane hth 23:48:52 <boily> it's a direcanary. 23:49:07 <boily> no I'm not. I'm very sane tyvm. 23:49:28 <zzo38> Are you sure? 23:49:29 <oerjan> it seems like it does something funny to `revert, sometimes. might have to make it a file again. 23:49:47 <FireFly> I wonder how a FIFO would fare 23:50:04 <boily> zzo38: positively sanitarily sure. 23:50:29 <b_jonas> oh 23:51:13 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:51:24 <oren> feefifofum 23:52:28 <oren> `ls canary/.. 23:52:29 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ script.py \ share \ src \ twolines \ Wierd \ wi 23:52:35 <FireFly> Hmm, can one write an n-ary xor in LaTeX, akin to \sum for n-ary summation? 23:53:08 <oren> um, I think you use like a big earth sign 23:53:50 <boily> @ask ais523 is a big Earth good for n-ary xores? 23:53:50 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 23:54:36 <oren> \bigoplus 23:55:18 <oren> (according to wikibook) 23:57:30 <FireFly> That works 2015-06-10: 00:01:28 -!- Wright has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:02:18 <Sgeo_> What do you think of an XML language where this is a valid element? 00:02:19 <Sgeo_> <Color color="1 1 1, 0 0 0, "/> 00:05:06 -!- Wright has joined. 00:05:58 <zzo38> What XML-based format is that? 00:06:07 <Sgeo_> X3D 00:06:18 <Sgeo_> It's meant to be two colors, at least, but still very string parsing 00:07:07 <zzo38> I don't really like XML much, JSON and RDF are generally better 00:07:22 <Sgeo_> Well, it was meant to replace VRML, which was its own custom thing 00:07:40 <Sgeo_> But it basically seems to take VRML and wrap it in slightly XMLish clothes 00:08:19 <oren> I prefer colors to be 6 character hex codes 00:08:55 <oren> or css color names 00:09:19 <zzo38> I still think that a JSON-based or RDF-based system might be better 00:09:24 <zzo38> I also prefer the hex codes 00:17:52 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:17:53 <HackEgo> hom-set/Hom-sets are just sets of morphisms between two objects. 00:19:51 <boily> Sgello_. is X3D similar to AMF? 00:20:53 <Sgeo_> I don't know what AMF is 00:25:49 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:25:50 <HackEgo> isomorphism/isomorphism is isomorphic to Phantom_Hoover up to isomorphism. 00:32:24 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 00:35:09 -!- PrinceW3 has joined. 00:36:07 <PrinceW3> Hello? 00:36:45 <PrinceW3> Anyone there? 00:36:57 <shachaf> `welcome PrinceW3 00:36:58 <HackEgo> PrinceW3: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 00:37:30 <PrinceW3> Hey, who is the owner or admin of esolangs? 00:37:42 <PrinceW3> *an admin 00:38:22 <PrinceW3> I found an esoteric joke language 00:40:22 <PrinceW3> That I think should be added to esolangs.org 00:40:22 -!- quietello has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:41:02 <shachaf> esolangs.org is a wiki. Anyone can add a language. 00:41:49 -!- PrinceW3 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 00:43:28 <oren> page closed? 00:44:42 <boily> boat murdered? 00:45:17 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:45:18 <HackEgo> bike/Bike is from Luxembourg. 00:45:21 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:45:21 <HackEgo> doesthiswork/no 00:45:26 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:45:26 <HackEgo> plugh/A hollow voice says "Plugh" 00:45:28 <boily> `wisdom 00:45:29 <HackEgo> test/test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available. 00:45:44 <boily> I think I'm the one who added plugh... 00:46:00 <shachaf> `` hg log wisdom/plugh 00:46:00 <HackEgo> changeset: 4147:642bcf901052 \ user: HackBot \ date: Fri Dec 06 16:51:20 2013 +0000 \ summary: <boily> echo \'A hollow voice says "Plugh"\' >wisdom/plugh 00:46:07 <boily> yup. 00:46:09 <shachaf> Imagine: Today you'd just use le/rn. 00:46:11 <shachaf> So convenient. 00:46:37 <boily> the Olden Ways were better. nah. 00:46:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43187&oldid=43093 * 96.59.227.171 * (+70) added QKAS 00:46:53 <boily> young'uns with their convenience learns... 00:47:11 <oren> how do you pronounce 'hg'? 00:47:24 <shachaf> "hug" 00:47:26 <oren> like the word 'hug' 00:47:27 <oren> ? 00:47:34 <oren> i see 00:47:38 <shachaf> i pronounce a lot of things like that word, though 00:48:31 <boily> hg is pronounced about the same way as hth is hth 00:48:42 <boily> /hg/ 00:52:05 <oren> /hʌg/ 00:52:24 <shachaf> hgldy pgldy 00:52:36 <shachaf> `quote higgledy 00:52:36 <HackEgo> No output. 00:52:38 <shachaf> what! 00:52:58 <boily> you say! 00:56:02 <oren> you have no chance to survive make your time 00:56:35 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:56:36 <HackEgo> wisisis "This isn't an actual wisdom, just a tribute."/ 00:56:45 * boily hʌgs oren 00:56:48 <shachaf> good wisdom 01:00:14 <boily> `wisdom 01:00:15 <HackEgo> inverness/Inverness is a city in Scotland. The ring road isn't multiplicative. 01:00:25 <boily> `wisdom PinealGlandOptic 01:00:26 <HackEgo> tmyk/tmyk the more overfilled your brain gets. 01:00:31 <boily> uhm. 01:00:36 <boily> `? pineapple 01:00:36 <HackEgo> Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, therefore making it a class 6 vegetable. 01:00:53 <boily> but then, does this mean... 01:00:58 <boily> `? PinealGlandOptic 01:00:59 <HackEgo> PinealGlandOptic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:01:30 <boily> PinealGlandOptic: OHAAAAAAAAAAAAAI~~~! you aren't descripted. please to provide something descriptionful hth 01:05:46 <zzo38> I thought Hg is actually "mercury"? 01:07:45 <boily> Hg is mercury. Fe is iron. ketchup is a vegetable. 01:17:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QKAS]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43188 * 96.59.227.171 * (+1704) Created page with "|name=QKAS |author=Prince |year=[[:Category:2015|2015]] |influence=[[QWERTY%Keyboard%Dot%Language]] '''QKAS''' was made in 2015 by a user simply known as "Prince". The idea ..." 01:18:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QKAS]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43189&oldid=43188 * 96.59.227.171 * (-38) 01:21:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QKAS]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43190&oldid=43189 * 96.59.227.171 * (+38) 01:23:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QKAS]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43191&oldid=43190 * 96.59.227.171 * (+17) 01:25:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QKAS]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43192&oldid=43191 * 96.59.227.171 * (+8) 01:26:32 -!- boily has quit (Quit: RELATIVELY CHICKEN). 01:28:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:31:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QKAS]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43193&oldid=43192 * 96.59.227.171 * (+64) 01:43:33 -!- nys has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:15:40 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:45:14 <oren> how many jobs should I apply for at once? 02:45:28 <oren> is 15 too many? 02:46:07 <oren> I've apllied for 5 so far 02:56:04 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:28:25 <oren> apparently americans don 03:28:36 <oren> 't refer to the hydro as the hydro 03:31:44 <oerjan> hydro is a norwegian company hth 03:32:07 <oren> in canada the hydro means the electric company 03:32:32 <oren> like "my hydro bill was high this month" 03:32:37 <oerjan> fancy 03:33:45 <oerjan> it would be a reasonably name in norway which is something like 90% (ref: thin air) hydro 03:33:49 <oerjan> *le 03:34:08 <pikhq> Is hydroelectric power that common in Canada? 03:34:34 <oren> Yeah, something like 70% of the watershed of quebec is dammed 03:34:41 <pikhq> Or do you just pretend it's hydroelectric when really you're generating power by burning the husks of huffed kittens? 03:35:01 <oren> lol 03:35:03 <oerjan> i'm not sure what we call it nowadays after all the privatization (each of us pays two companies, one for the actual power and one for the lines) 03:35:49 <oerjan> and there are lot of companies to choose between 03:36:15 <oren> What the hell! In America, the don't have smarties, and rockets are called smarties 03:36:38 <oerjan> (for the power. the line is generally fixed, i suppose.) 03:37:02 <oerjan> what's smarties 03:37:08 <oerjan> and rockets 03:37:22 <oerjan> well, i think smarties is some kind of chocolatey candy here 03:37:57 <oren> right, that's what they are in Canada 03:38:14 <oren> they are a tastier version of M&M's 03:39:05 <oerjan> i don't think we have rockets (at least by that name) or M&Ms 03:39:35 <oerjan> we have M, which are chocolate-covered peanuts. 03:40:06 * oerjan has some of those in the fridge 03:40:24 -!- Wright has joined. 03:40:25 <pikhq> M&Ms are just chocolates with a candy shell. 03:40:38 <pikhq> (with some varieties, like peanut M&Ms, that have stuff in 'em.) 03:41:31 * oerjan vaguely wonders if M is why they aren't trying to advertise M&Ms in norway 03:41:43 <oerjan> well, that i've noticed, anyway 03:42:41 <oerjan> i recall from back when i visited the us some M&M ad about an M&M trying to look blue by holding its breath 03:53:02 -!- password2_ has joined. 04:41:39 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:54:07 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:54:32 -!- HackEgo has joined. 04:59:55 -!- bb010g has joined. 05:16:50 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:23:50 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:33:57 -!- HackEgo has joined. 05:53:18 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:06:04 -!- mitchs has joined. 06:22:04 -!- Tritonio has joined. 06:37:53 <oren> what is this i don't even 06:39:33 <oerjan> does that mean you odd? 06:49:39 <oren> i'm just watching some crazy Thai music video featuring hitler 06:50:04 <oren> I can't believe this thing even exists 06:51:13 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:51:16 <oren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydRxCUZp8Bg 06:52:07 <oren> I mean they even incorporate the Nazi salute into their Parapara routine. what. the. fuck. 07:02:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Sparr * New user account 07:04:07 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:13:04 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:14:04 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:19:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Marbelous]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43194 * Sparr * (+5865) First draft 08:29:57 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:58:43 -!- zadock has joined. 09:01:53 -!- Herbalist has joined. 09:02:01 -!- Herbalist has quit (Changing host). 09:02:01 -!- Herbalist has joined. 09:06:14 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 09:11:11 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 09:13:04 <myname> is unifunge considered tc? 09:16:26 <b_jonas> myname: yes. it has random access read and write statements, and enough statements to build conditionals and a loop 09:18:03 <myname> but can you do nested loops with only regular #? 09:33:46 <zzo38> How can you know for sure if some of the coincidences about Lincoln and Kennedy were not deliberately executed by Oswald's employer? (Even if it is, probably not all of them) 09:54:13 <FireFly> myname: do you mean unefunge-98? It has j which allows for arbitrary jumps 10:00:03 <myname> FireFly: why isn't it defined in the wiki 10:00:56 <FireFly> Because the article on Befunge covers B93 10:01:00 <FireFly> Try http://quadium.net/funge/spec98.html 10:01:24 <myname> ah 10:02:03 <zzo38> Maybe you can add the Befunge-98 stuff into wiki too then 10:02:32 <FireFly> Well, the wiki points to the spec under external links 10:03:20 <FireFly> I don't know if it's necessary to mirror it on the wiki 10:20:27 -!- hilquias has joined. 10:34:31 -!- boily has joined. 10:41:13 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 10:51:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:55:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:06:27 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:06:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 11:15:32 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:27:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 11:28:43 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TABULAR CHICKEN). 11:33:24 <zzo38> Why do D-Link router setting files are encrypted anyways? I did find out it is easy to decrypt; the C code is: i=0; while((c=fgetc(stdin))!=EOF) putchar(c-i++); 11:33:53 <zzo38> The result is a XML file that contains a comment telling you not to edit this file 11:34:58 <mroman_> uhm? 11:35:08 <mroman_> what happens to negative values? 11:35:50 <ais523> mroman_: I think putchar has an effective internal mod-256 in most implementations 11:36:53 <zzo38> Even if your implementation doesn't you can put in (c-i++)&255 11:57:54 <fizzie> ais523: mroman_: On every standards-compliant implementation. (Well, technically an internal mod-(2 to the power of CHAR_BIT), but anyway.) 11:57:57 <fizzie> "-- writes the character specified by c (converted to an unsigned char) --" (C11 7.21.7.3p2), and that's what conversion from signed to unsigned does. 12:01:56 <fizzie> D-Link is not the only brand, I think I recently ran across a router that had three different ecryption methods (of varying complexity) which could all be independently applied to NVRAM keys. 12:02:05 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:02:16 <fizzie> And another one where the firmware images were xor'd with some pattern. 12:10:28 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:50:01 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 13:10:45 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 13:37:28 -!- Wright has joined. 13:38:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 13:40:45 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:49:28 -!- APic has joined. 14:08:36 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:08:58 <J_Arcane> http://blog.circleci.com/its-the-future/ 14:09:50 -!- Welo has joined. 14:26:08 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:26:31 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:30:21 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Client Quit). 14:36:10 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:37:23 <mroman_> fizzie: Well you gotta protect your IP. 14:41:37 <int-e> 127.0.0.1 is MINE! 14:48:55 <fizzie> Speaking of IP, I heard that there was a nice bump in IPv6 connectivity metrics back in Finland. 14:48:58 <fizzie> https://www.vyncke.org/ipv6status/project.php?metric=p&timeforward=&timebackward=&country=fi 14:49:04 <fizzie> That's quite a deviation from the projection. 14:50:12 <fizzie> They had some sort of "National IPv6 launch day" yesterday: https://www.viestintavirasto.fi/en/ipv6now/index.html 14:51:52 -!- spiette has joined. 14:54:48 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 14:58:03 <AndoDaan> Can hardware be "esoteric"? http://www.sciencealert.com/engineers-have-created-a-computer-that-operates-on-water-droplets 15:02:35 <zzo38> Probably I think so? 15:05:39 <AndoDaan> I guess if you'd invented a programming language that acted like water and could compute stuff, it'd be considered esoteric. 15:08:02 <int-e> esoteric or not, it's pretty cool 15:09:06 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:14:08 <zzo38> The Redmine service I am currently using for AmigaMML is said they will discontinue it soon (I don't know when or how soon); now what shall I do about this? 15:14:16 <tswett> Sgeo_: well, <color>1 1 1, 0 0 0</color> would definitely be better, imo. 15:14:53 <tswett> <colors><color red="1" green="1" blue="1"/><color red="0" green="0" blue="0"/></colors> would be somewhat easier to take in, but it's also really verbose. 15:16:11 <tswett> oren: I'd say apply for as many jobs as you feel like, but be very careful about applying for multiple jobs at the same company. 15:16:19 <tswett> It may be a good idea. It may be a bad idea. 15:17:17 <tswett> Applying for 15 jobs is definitely not excessive. 15:18:47 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 15:19:15 -!- idris-bot has joined. 15:20:59 <zzo38> The other way is by RDF such as: [ :colors ("1 1 1"^^C:drgb "0 0 0"^^C:drgb) ] 15:23:17 <zzo38> So the node has the list of two colors, white and black. 15:40:03 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:52:21 -!- spiette has joined. 16:38:56 -!- Welo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:44:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[QKAS]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43195&oldid=43193 * 96.59.227.171 * (+1) 17:16:00 -!- Welo has joined. 17:16:28 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to kerio_is_a_boat. 17:16:32 -!- atrapado has joined. 17:25:10 -!- kerio_is_a_boat has changed nick to Elronnd. 17:26:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 17:29:33 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: g2g). 17:38:28 -!- variable has joined. 18:04:51 -!- Froox has joined. 18:05:04 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:32:40 -!- supay has left. 18:39:53 <pikhq> Whoooo; hiring committee approved. 18:51:37 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 18:54:46 -!- quietello has joined. 18:58:01 -!- nys has joined. 18:59:35 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 19:02:13 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:03:36 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 19:26:10 -!- trout has changed nick to constant. 19:33:47 <fizzie> In my case, I didn't hear pretty much anything about how my interviews went, except after the final decision. 19:34:32 <fizzie> Also when they had decided, the recruiter sent an email saying only "I have some news, when could I call?", which I think was a bit of a tease. 19:36:52 <b_jonas> pikhq: good, what will you work at? 19:37:03 <ais523> fizzie: they might not be allowed to put that sort of information in email 19:38:31 <fizzie> ais523: Mmmaybe. Or they might just have a policy of giving the answer in person. 19:39:11 -!- Herbalist has joined. 19:40:39 <fizzie> They're quite famous for not telling you why you weren't hired if you're not accepted, or so I've heard (primarily from people complaining about not being able to know what they need to improve on). I think the speculation was that it's due to fear of lawsuits, but I don't know. 19:43:35 <pikhq> They also haven't formally handed me a job offer yet. 19:43:42 <pikhq> fizzie: That's pretty common though., 19:44:16 <pikhq> (the hiring commitee is pretty much the last step to be *worried* about, but there's still some HR paperwork to put together before it's official) 19:44:35 <pikhq> b_jonas: Don't know yet. 19:45:32 <fizzie> I think it's also technically possible to fail the higher-level reviews, it's just pretty rare. 19:45:54 <fizzie> There was the compensation committee to actually decide the offer, and some "executive review" or something. 19:45:54 <int-e> . o O ( http://dilbert.com/strip/1995-11-07 ) 19:46:56 <pikhq> fizzie: The compensation committee isn't really allowed to say "no" though. 19:47:02 <fizzie> Right. 19:47:08 <pikhq> Executive review can say "no", but it's pretty rare. 19:47:14 <pikhq> Like I said, last step to be worried about. 19:47:31 <pikhq> It'd have to be something like "one of my references said I was secretly terrible" or something. 19:47:38 <olsner> where did you apply? 19:47:57 <pikhq> Google, Mountain View campus. 19:48:17 <fizzie> I was given the impression that it can also be something like "due to business reasons", but even more rarely. 19:48:19 <olsner> is there any special department for #esoteric concerns? 19:48:35 <pikhq> olsner: Not to my knowledge. 19:48:35 <olsner> iirc we have >=3 if you get in 19:48:51 <fizzie> olsner: There's an internal code golf site, that's kind of tangentially related to the channel. 19:48:58 <fizzie> olsner: Although the language support is pretty mainstream. 19:49:07 <olsner> weak 19:49:39 <fizzie> #anagol had something like 8 Googlers on it, which I only learned of recently. 19:56:56 <olsner> how many ircers are there, and how many googlers, and how big the intersection? 19:58:09 <fizzie> My immediate colleagues aren't ircers, but that's in no way a uniform sampling. 19:58:23 <ais523> so I take it fizzie works for Google now, then? 19:59:10 <fizzie> Yes. 19:59:21 <fizzie> I also live in London, if you hadn't heard. :) 19:59:28 <ais523> I knew that much 19:59:40 <olsner> ah, you didn't end up in the US 19:59:57 <olsner> incidentally, where is fungot? 20:00:01 <fizzie> Hmm. 20:00:15 <fizzie> It's the strange thing. 20:00:35 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:00:43 <fizzie> It's still "connected" (as in, the the read call hasn't failed), but it's not getting anything in. 20:01:01 <fizzie> Normally it goes "IRC read failed" at some point, but occasionally it gets stuck like this. 20:01:51 <fizzie> I've been thinking of making it auto-restart (with a max-retry or exponential backoff or something), but haven't bothered to, partially due to the fact that it wouldn't help in this stuck case. 20:02:04 <fizzie> Although more because of lazy. 20:02:22 -!- fungot has joined. 20:02:34 <olsner> you could add another irc bot that connects and checks if fungot is connected otherwise kills and restarts fungot 20:02:34 <fungot> olsner: you argument fails because ( n-1) in self 5, 6, 7, 5, 5 13 5 6 20:02:43 <fizzie> There you have it. 20:02:55 <fizzie> Can't argue with that, mostly because it makes no sense. 20:03:08 <olsner> indeed, I don't know how to argue with that 20:03:25 <olsner> fungot: you're wrong because bot, and also because I am right 20:03:26 <fungot> olsner: bf does sockets? i think they do stuff like drawing things like lines, and it's fnord est here, so that's your trick :)). i think i'm probably a bit ambitious of me to play 20:11:40 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:15:26 <oren> olsner: >=3 looks like an angry cat emoticon 20:15:37 <oren> orn an evil cat emoticon 20:16:45 <olsner> @type (>=3) 20:16:48 <lambdabot> (Num a, Ord a) => a -> Bool 20:22:14 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:38:28 -!- spiette_ has joined. 20:38:42 -!- spiette has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:38:50 -!- spiette_ has changed nick to spiette. 21:08:20 -!- hjulle has joined. 21:13:00 -!- evalj has joined. 21:21:33 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:24:26 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:25:59 -!- APic has joined. 21:28:32 <zzo38> I tried to make the program similar to the "mode" function in https://raw.githubusercontent.com/csound/csound/develop/Opcodes/biquad.c but mine has no fixed sample rate; rather the frequency is given relative to the fundamental frequency of the note. But, the note is a bit not tuned! Why is that? 21:30:52 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:35:21 -!- APic has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:39:10 -!- APic has joined. 21:44:06 <zzo38> "THE ONLY TELEPHONE IN ALL OF HELL! LOCAL CALLS ONLY, PLEASE." What kind of trope is that called? 21:52:42 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:55:57 <int-e> I'm going to opt for http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LastOfHisKind ... because it's not quite completely wrong. 21:57:24 <zzo38> I suppose "last of his kind" won't be quite completely wrong, but it doesn't look quite right either, isn't it? 21:59:17 -!- Herbalist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:59:55 <nys> Last Of His Sort 22:01:34 -!- boily has joined. 22:05:49 -!- Herbalist has joined. 22:10:04 <boily> Hellorbalist! 22:15:57 <Sgeo_> tswett, that trailing comma was optional, but afaik allowed 22:19:23 <boily> @tell oerjan hellørjan! 22:19:23 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 22:25:25 <Sgeo_> øerjan 22:25:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:25:55 <boily> Sgello_. that is an atrocity. you should've written ø̈rjan. 22:26:18 <Sgeo_> oøerjan 22:26:18 <oerjan> nowat 22:26:48 <Sgeo_> ooer oøer 22:27:13 * boily tries to mapole Sgeo_ without laughing 22:27:38 <boily> quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA! 22:27:50 <Sgeo_> http://www.reddit.com/r/ooer 22:27:56 <boily> I read page 4 of the ONUW. wow. 22:28:28 <boily> Sgeo_: http://www.reddit.com/r/ooerintensifies 22:30:19 <oerjan> @messages- 22:30:19 <lambdabot> boily said 10m 56s ago: hellørjan! 22:30:59 <oerjan> @tell boily godkveily 22:30:59 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 22:31:09 <boily> @massages-loud 22:31:09 <lambdabot> oerjan said 9s ago: godkveily 22:44:25 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:52:32 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:56:25 <oerjan> int-e: hi the last panel of today's GG worries me 22:58:18 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:58:36 <oerjan> argh is int-e idle or absent i'm not good with this patience thing 22:59:14 <oerjan> right, i was supposed to have some chocolate. blood sugar -> 23:01:58 -!- Wright has joined. 23:44:59 <boily> oerjan: is your blood sugared enough now? 23:52:59 <oerjan> INCONCLUSIVE 23:53:03 <oren> helló̷̂̇̅̈ 23:53:14 <quintopia> bonjoily 23:53:47 <oren> I like how the diacritics impinge on the previous line 23:57:59 <boily> helloren. the diacritics are linear here hth 23:59:32 <boily> http://imgur.com/09QOBBu 2015-06-11: 00:00:37 <boily> quintopia: when will it be done? 00:00:53 <boily> oerjan: OKAY 00:01:07 <boily> you should conclusively sugar your bloodstream hth 00:02:39 <oren> h́̅̆ể̏l̸̤l̲̹̘̊ö̸̷̤̥̂̀̃̅̆ 00:02:55 <quintopia> boily: the game? 00:03:09 <oren> you lose, lol, I'm so random 00:03:36 <quintopia> no u 00:03:59 * boily mapoles oren 00:04:24 <boily> . o O ( I should've used a spork for mapoling oren. I guess I'm not random enough... ) 00:04:29 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 00:04:46 -!- oerjan has kicked oren Preliminary Zalgo protection. 00:04:56 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 00:05:08 <boily> quintopia: the game. 00:05:10 -!- oren has joined. 00:05:18 <boily> helloren! long time no see! 00:05:33 <oren> ok, I'll stop seeing how much shit i can stack on top of a latter 00:05:45 <oren> *letter 00:08:04 <quintopia> boily: as you can see, wam made some mistakes and has now been thrown under the bus. 00:08:22 <oerjan> boily: a spork does not seem to qualify as a mapole hth although maybe if it's an infamous canadian army pole it might include a spork? 00:08:38 <oerjan> `? mapole 00:08:45 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. 00:09:30 <oerjan> `learn_append mapole The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. 00:09:32 <HackEgo> Learned 'mapole': A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. 00:10:12 * oerjan felt sudden inspiration 00:11:30 * boily needs to update ça au plus vite. 00:11:40 <quintopia> `? quintopia 00:11:41 <HackEgo> quintopia is our resident tl;dr generator. 00:13:00 <boily> meanwhile, I'm using zsh at my job, and bash at home. I'm beginning to prefer zsh. I feel tainted and corrupted. do y'all think I should switch everything to the Z, or keep bash as a saner option? 00:15:47 * oerjan never used zsh 00:16:22 <zzo38> Even if you prefer to use zsh generally you should probably install bash anyways in case some program require it somehow 00:18:21 <oren> I use midnoght commander as my shell most of the time 00:18:32 <oren> but sometimes zsh too 00:20:29 <boily> I never got the hang of mc. I prefer a good screen (or tmux). 00:23:36 <oren> mc is good mostly for moving and renaming files en masse 00:25:14 <oren> for an actual shell I used zsh 00:25:18 -!- bb010g has joined. 00:25:28 <oren> but for file management mc is the boss 01:00:41 -!- mihow has joined. 01:05:28 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:06:31 -!- mihow has joined. 01:08:43 <oren> i'm going to put the current draft of my sprite scaler up 01:14:14 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:20:15 -!- mihow has joined. 01:24:52 * boily stares at dropbox to make it sync faster 01:32:16 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:43:19 <oren> https://github.com/orenwatson/oren4x/blob/master/oren4x.cpp 01:43:23 <oren> Jyan! 01:46:35 <boily> `? jyan 01:46:41 <HackEgo> jyan? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:47:38 <boily> also, you're now a coonspirator. 01:48:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ALIGNED CHICKEN). 01:50:33 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:54:31 <zzo38> O, you even have learn_append command I didn't know that before 01:59:08 <zzo38> I don't even need all of the functions of Redmine; the issues, wiki, files, will be good enough but I would want to allow arbitrary people writing on wiki and this this Redmine doesn't seem to accept that 02:02:09 <zzo38> I don't need the HTTPS either 02:02:25 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:06:49 -!- adu has joined. 02:23:47 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:33:13 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: ). 02:45:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:31:55 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:44:33 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:49:18 -!- password2 has joined. 03:51:13 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:53:22 <doesthiswork> I just had a great idea. floating precision floating point. You set several bits aside to tell you how many bits are in the exponent 03:54:29 <pikhq> I do hate to tell you this, but that's pretty close to just arbitrary-precision floating point. 03:54:33 <pikhq> Which is A Thing. 03:57:50 <oren> I don't think that's the same thing 03:59:06 <oren> he's saying, if you have 256 bits, you use 8 of them to signal how many of the remaining 248 bits are used as exponent and how many as mantissa. 03:59:34 <oren> So the total number of bits is still fixed 04:01:09 <pikhq> Ah. That... sounds *really* tricky to implement. 04:03:46 <doesthiswork> and if you're that you might waste bits on the meta-exponent when you don't need that amount of dynamic range in the exponent, you can have a meta-meta-exponent that tells you how many bits are used for the meta-exponent 04:04:16 <doesthiswork> replace "you're that" with "you're worried that" 04:08:03 <oren> holy crap, __int128_t is a thing 04:12:23 <pikhq> I prefer its real name, int128_t 04:16:32 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 04:18:08 -!- hilquias has joined. 04:48:14 -!- hilquias has quit (Read error: No route to host). 04:59:10 <Jafet> TAOCP 2 has an exercise involving "floating-slash" rational numbers. 05:17:40 <quintopia> i guess that means a number m/n is represented by a fixed-width number k, followed by the k bits of m, followed with all the remaining bits representing n? 05:39:41 <Sgeo_> This looks like some nice light Agoran reading http://www.mail-archive.com/agora-official@agoranomic.org/msg07043.html 05:39:47 * Sgeo_ will read it tomorrow 05:47:54 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:55:34 <oren> my scaling algorithm is working nicely now 05:56:14 <oren> http://postimg.org/image/lwzyx1cy9/2439f47a/ 05:58:53 <oren> http://postimg.org/image/kpt8mgxhb/ 06:00:08 <oren> it attempts to smooth edges and yet make dithering xxxxxxx patterns look good too 06:02:08 <oren> like look at the carpet in the living room. it has a checkerboeard pattern on it, so the algorithm dithers it more together 06:03:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Nomanni * New user account 06:04:59 <Jafet> oren: some pixels seem to be leaking from the potted plant, though 06:06:43 <oren> yeah, it's not perfect, but it is made to be easily modified. the algorithm https://github.com/orenwatson/oren4x/blob/master/oren4x.cpp simply matches the area around a pixel to various patterns of pixels with the same color, and a matched pattern results in a pattern for the 4x version 06:06:52 <Jafet> The artist probably never expected that to become visible 06:07:41 <oren> I plan to keep figuring out rules whenever I see a part that looks too wrong 06:07:49 <Jafet> Optimising the battle animations could be more interesting 06:08:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Main Page]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43196&oldid=43156 * Nomanni * (-749) 06:09:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43197&oldid=43167 * Nomanni * (-14275) 06:11:42 <Jafet> Someone's optimising the esowiki 06:11:46 <oren> http://postimg.org/image/drsnyx6kh/ 06:12:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Community portal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43198&oldid=43155 * Nomanni * (-909) 06:12:23 <oren> here we can see some glitches with parts of the chinese chatacters 06:13:31 <oerjan> whoops 06:13:47 <Jafet> Edge detection would work for more lines 06:13:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Main Page]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43199&oldid=43196 * Nomanni * (-1787) 06:14:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43200&oldid=43197 * Zzo38 * (+14275) 06:14:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:Nomanni]] with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites 06:14:52 <oerjan> zzo38: please don't 06:15:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Main Page]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43201&oldid=43199 * Oerjan * (+2536) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Nomanni|Nomanni]] ([[User talk:Nomanni|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:213.162.68.175|213.162.68.175]] 06:15:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Community portal]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43202&oldid=43198 * Oerjan * (+909) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Nomanni|Nomanni]] ([[User talk:Nomanni|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:213.162.68.175|213.162.68.175]] 06:17:01 <oren> oerjan: uh, am I missing somethin 06:17:09 <oerjan> oren: a spammer hth 06:17:21 <oerjan> zzo38: never mind it was ok 06:22:57 <oerjan> that one seemed pretty insistent, at least we caught em quickly 06:25:23 <oren> http://postimg.org/image/qbrbyr2tj/ 06:27:25 <oren> I like ZAS because it has the most intricate graphics of any game I've played for the original game boy 06:28:19 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:41:00 <mroman_> oren: what scaling alogrithm is that? 06:41:12 <oren> one I wrote 06:41:34 <oren> https://github.com/orenwatson/oren4x/blob/master/oren4x.cpp 06:41:54 <oren> I modded it into mednafen 06:42:34 <doesthiswork> so I'm playing around with machine learning proto-indoeuropean roots. And it finds it very surprising how many roots start with gʷ 06:45:14 <oren> gwuh gwark gwlph 06:47:39 <oren> doesthiswork: are you entering them as unicode or a special encoding? 06:50:21 <oerjan> doesthiswork: gʷery gʷood 06:51:35 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:59:39 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:02:37 -!- Herbalist has joined. 07:19:32 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:25:14 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:34:47 -!- Herbalist has left ("WeeChat 1.2"). 07:48:16 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to kerio_is_a_boat. 07:48:38 -!- kerio_is_a_boat has changed nick to Elronnd. 07:51:31 <oerjan> *sigh* bbc's news site also seems to think zoom means i want to look at a mobile-like page 07:54:14 <oerjan> oh well only depressing news anyway. 08:11:44 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:13:16 -!- FreeFull has joined. 08:15:42 <oren> the bbc is crap anyway. actually, scratch that, all news is crap 08:16:42 <int-e> wtf. "" 08:16:42 <int-e> For a better experience on your device, try our mobile site. 08:16:55 <int-e> and... stupid firefox. 08:17:36 <oren> I don 08:17:44 <oren> 't see a message when I zoom 08:18:20 <oren> might be they are using some HTML5 thing that my older version of firefox didn't have 08:19:45 <oerjan> oh it only did what i complained about when i load the page, not if i zoom after it's loaded. 08:19:54 <oren> like detecting zoom might not be in firfox 22 08:21:07 <int-e> they do collapse the "side bar" to the right at some (ridiculous) zoom level, or window width. I would see that as a feature. 08:21:35 <int-e> ...if javascript is enabled... 08:22:26 <oren> I have jsenabled 08:22:41 <oren> i think it's just a new html5 thing 08:25:04 <int-e> actually without javascript, links point to pages that look very much like they're designed for mobile devices. ugh. 08:28:48 <Taneb> Good morning 08:31:19 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:32:06 <oren> ohayou 08:34:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:34:55 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:03:47 -!- mitchs_ has joined. 09:04:48 -!- mitchs has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:07:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 09:57:09 <mroman_> what's a new html5 thing? 09:57:19 <mroman_> apparentely webpages can disable zooming on mobile devices 09:57:24 <mroman_> which totally sucks 09:58:07 <mroman_> <meta content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0, maximum-scale=1.0, user-scalable=0' name='viewport' / 09:58:15 <mroman_> there's a special place in hell for these peolpe 09:58:17 <mroman_> hopefully 09:59:02 <mroman_> "Disable "disable zoom"" would be a nice browser option 10:14:45 -!- boily has joined. 10:32:43 <oren> "find web developer and slap them" would be a better one 10:33:32 <boily> web developers deserve more. 10:33:42 <boily> more pain. 10:36:22 <oren> This irssi process has now been running for 10 days 10:36:49 <oren> ps -axo comm,lstart | grep irssi 10:37:04 <oren> irssi Mon Jun 1 02:40:26 2015 10:45:12 <oren> I wonder what the world record for longest running server is 10:45:19 <izabera> http://git-man-page-generator.lokaltog.net/ 10:46:21 <izabera> sry if it's a repost 10:46:41 <oren> holy shit I was taken in for like a whole minute 10:47:22 <oren> nice 10:48:02 <oren> just goes to show how incomprehensible git is. 10:56:25 <boily> do you even educate subtrees, bro? did you skip remote stash day? 11:01:55 <oren> lol 11:02:30 -!- lemurian has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:03:48 <boily> @metar CYUL 11:03:49 <lambdabot> CYUL 111000Z 24014G24KT 10SM FEW010 OVC025 17/14 A2968 RMK SF1SC7 SLP051 DENSITY ALT 600FT 11:07:59 <boily> `wisdom 11:08:03 <HackEgo> racoonspirator/A racoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in fur 11:08:09 <boily> `wisdom 11:08:09 <HackEgo> koen/Koen vit au haut de la Tour Eiffel (coordonnées approximatives). 11:08:19 <Jafet> My git trees are always reflogged, as flogging them once isn't enough. 11:08:50 <boily> @ask Koen_ Vis-tu toujours en haut de la Tour Eiffel, ou approximativement là, ou vraiment approximativement quelque part autour? 11:08:51 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 11:10:10 <boily> `wisdom 11:10:12 <HackEgo> phở/Phở là một món ăn truyền thống của Việt Nam, cũng có thể xem là một trong những món ăn đặc trưng nhất cho ẩm thực Việt Nam. 11:10:33 * boily wonders if he can get a nicer Vietnamese font... 11:10:36 <boily> `wisdom 11:10:37 <HackEgo> koen/Koen vit au haut de la Tour Eiffel (coordonnées approximatives). 11:10:46 * boily mapoles HackEgo's RNG 11:10:48 <boily> `wisdom 11:10:49 <HackEgo> burlesque/Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque) 11:11:01 <boily> `wisdom 11:11:01 <HackEgo> whitespace/see https://www.bing.com/search?q=whitespace 11:11:04 <boily> `wisdom 11:11:05 <HackEgo> ​ /The final frontier. 11:11:12 <boily> ...? 11:11:50 <oren> space. the final frontier 11:12:13 <oren> `wisdom 　 11:12:14 <HackEgo> coulor/Coulor is the correct spelling. 11:12:22 <oren> `? 　 11:12:23 <HackEgo> ​　 is a space, unless you're hackego and don't understand wide characters. 11:12:48 <boily> ah! 11:15:11 <Melvar> `?   11:15:12 <HackEgo> ​ ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:15:40 <oren> `? ' ' 11:15:41 <HackEgo> ​' '? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:16:03 <Melvar> `? 11:16:04 <HackEgo> ​ ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:17:03 <oren> `? 11:17:04 <HackEgo> ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:17:28 <oren> is it even possible to name a file the empty string 11:17:39 <oren> probably not 11:19:52 <APic> Try and report, please. 11:20:03 <APic> [2/5.0.7]apic@Ant:~> >"" 11:20:03 <APic> zsh: datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden: 11:20:39 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:20:55 <Melvar> `` echo test >'' 11:20:56 <HackEgo> bash: : No such file or directory 11:21:06 <APic> [2/5.0.7]{1}apic@Ant:~> strace "sh -c '>\"\"'" 11:21:06 <APic> strace: Can't stat 'sh -c '>""'': No such file or directory 11:21:13 <APic> Whatever. 11:21:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:21:21 <APic> Back to JuNetHack.net 11:21:24 <boily> APic: hi? what was that? 11:21:28 <oren> yeah it would be incompatible with paths like ~/code//utils/timetotime 11:21:49 <APic> I _think_ NetHack should be nearly Turing-complete. Anybody can elaborate on that? 11:21:53 <boily> fungot: have you brought forth one of your brethren? 11:21:53 <fungot> boily: he does? 11:21:57 <boily> fungot: he does. 11:21:58 <fungot> boily: http://www.codu.org/ odikeh/ :) dinnertime. those were backspaces.) all qubits in fnord states have always resolved to 1, and ( in my fridge but they're rather quiet." " yeah, but 11:22:21 <APic> boily: That was my zsh-Prompt and an epic Fail, sorry. 11:22:22 <boily> APic: you should ask ais523. he maintains NetHack. 11:22:32 <boily> APic: OKAY 11:22:35 <APic> Yeah, i know him from #NetHack et al. 11:22:48 <APic> Will ask when he joins back. 11:23:35 <oren> can you name a file with non-printing characters? 11:23:48 <oren> like backspace? 11:24:06 <oren> or newline? 11:24:14 <boily> no hth 11:24:29 -!- lemurian has joined. 11:24:49 <oren> apparently you can do it with newline 11:24:58 <oren> touch ' 11:24:59 <oren> ' 11:25:03 <oren> works 11:26:16 <Melvar> IIRC the only characters that can’t be in unixy filenames are '/' because separator and '\0' because end of string. 11:26:54 <Taneb> I think ':' as well maybe? 11:27:15 <oren> nope 11:27:47 <Taneb> Huh 11:27:56 <oren> shit now my home directory is full of asinine named files 11:28:35 <boily> Taneb: ':' on windows because 'C:' hth 11:28:45 <boily> oren: now you know why you can't :P 11:29:26 <Melvar> : is perfectly fine. You can also leave such a file on a FATwhatever thumbdrive, then Windows Explorer will show the : as a box. 11:30:00 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HOMOGENEOUS CHICKEN). 11:30:58 <oren> like touch $"\007" works. so then your terminal beeps every time you ls 11:31:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:31:58 <oren> whoops my bash syntax is off that should be $'\007' 11:37:01 <oren> Melvar: yeah that appears to be correct. filenames can contain any bytes except those two it appears 11:38:03 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 11:39:47 <oren> this time i had the prescience to put them in a temporary directory 11:47:27 -!- lemurian has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:52:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:54:49 <mroman_> so 11:54:55 <mroman_> the can even have backspaces? 11:55:02 <mroman_> how is that rendered? 11:55:53 <oren> when ls, all control chars are replaced with ? 11:58:37 <mroman_> fungot: Fnordy morning to you 11:58:37 <fungot> mroman_: what's the rationale for that? they need more of this silliness? :) i don't know squat about the language 11:58:45 <mroman_> fungot: I know the language. 11:58:45 <fungot> mroman_: but i don't 11:59:03 <mroman_> fungot: Shall I teach you? 11:59:03 <fungot> mroman_: is that or? 11:59:25 <mroman_> fungot: Yeah, the language is called 'or'. 11:59:25 <fungot> mroman_: the command to push false is ' f' 12:00:00 <mroman_> fungot: Exactly. To push false to the stack in 'or' you just use the f command prefixed with a space. 12:01:44 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 12:01:56 <ais523> is fungot inventing an esolang? 12:01:57 <fungot> ais523: i just used emacs to control source code control. objections?") and two people working on each implementation is probably quite useless with a lisp 12:01:59 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Changing host). 12:01:59 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 12:02:12 <ais523> I guess we should leave it alone to write the interp 12:02:40 <mroman_> No, it is tyring to learn a language called or. 12:03:54 <mroman_> However, we only now so far that ' f' pushes false to the stack. 12:04:29 <mroman_> *know 12:09:10 <oren> I added a few palettes for game boy games to my repstry. 12:09:20 <ais523> we should add this esolang to esolangs.org 12:09:28 <ais523> the wiki, that is 12:09:48 <oren> that sounds good 12:12:34 <mroman_> It will mostly be impossible to prove turing complete until more is known . 12:14:06 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:27:26 <int-e> hmmm. "Have you brought Forth one of your brethren?" 12:28:18 -!- supay has joined. 12:29:12 <int-e> fungot: are you working on your own esolang? 12:29:12 <fungot> int-e: even if there are many variations and i do plan on waiting for that website for my entire language on., they're trying to cut down on the floor 12:29:26 <b_jonas> oh! so it's not exponential decay 12:38:16 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 12:40:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:53:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:57:12 <b_jonas> yay chocolate 12:59:59 <Jafet> ^style irc is getting pretty meta. 13:01:49 -!- lemurian has joined. 13:01:59 -!- lemurian has quit (Changing host). 13:01:59 -!- lemurian has joined. 13:14:41 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 13:21:38 -!- Wright has joined. 13:21:58 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 13:24:13 <Taneb> I miss the legend that was Friendship Mouse 13:24:34 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:24:51 <Taneb> Heh, there are two quotes about self-face-punching 13:25:01 <Taneb> `quote punch.* myself 13:25:02 <HackEgo> 401) <Taneb> Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. \ 612) <elliott> ais523: I pronounce "xor" by punching myself in the face and then "or" 13:26:51 <Taneb> Anyway it is time to listen to someone talking about a language that is a little like Eodermdrome! Or possibly something else 13:26:56 <Taneb> In any case I am going away now 13:30:47 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:42:17 <oren> you know, it *would* be nice for the emulator to interpolate scrolling backgrounds to increase the effective frame rate but I cant' figure out where in the code I would do such thing 13:43:31 <oren> I guess I could do it somewhere above the gpu emulation but that seems unsanitary 13:45:06 <b_jonas> oren: what interpreter? 13:45:19 <oren> mednafen 13:45:23 <b_jonas> ok 13:47:55 <oren> Like the idea would be, if the bg is scrolling at 1pix/8frames and we are operating at 4x scale, we could interpolate to scroll at an effective 1pix/2frames on the real screen 13:49:03 <oren> but the problem is, the scaling happens after the gpu emulation, so we would have to store say the last 10 frames and check whether it is scrolling 13:50:31 <oren> while if the scaling was BEFORE the gpu composites the sprite and background layers, then it would be way easier 13:52:07 <oren> Maybe I'll try to do the after-compositing idea by storing previous frames. it will be fucking slow, but hey, game boy emulation is pretty fast 13:54:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Or]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43203 * 160.85.232.173 * (+1256) or - the dubious language 13:58:41 <oren> Ok so what I'mma do is, for each block of say 5x5 pixels, check if any of say the last 10 previous frames exactly matches it, one pixel up, left, right or down. if it does, then we also check if any frame before that has the same pattern one more pixel in the same direction. that will give us the scroll rate,and if we store previous rendered version we then copy it, scrolled by the interpolated subpixel amount, into the block. 13:59:25 <oren> overall then, 20 frames of previous data need to be stored 14:00:32 <oren> does that sound good? or does it sound like complete madness 14:02:10 <oren> there may be glitches at the border between scrolling and stationary objects or objects scrolling in different directions 14:02:48 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:02:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:03:14 <b_jonas> it's raining 14:03:20 -!- variable has joined. 14:06:05 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:07:32 <oren> so a fully rendered and scaled frame from a game boy is 1.5 MB, therefore 20 frames (1/3 of a second) is 29 MB of ram 14:08:09 <mroman_> how much RAM did a regular gameboy have? 14:08:28 <oren> 32 kb 14:08:29 <b_jonas> what? isn't it a 256x212 pixel with 4 levels of grayscale? 14:08:42 <b_jonas> how can it be 1.5 MB? 14:08:49 <b_jonas> plus it's made of tiles and sprites 14:09:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:09:44 <oren> 160x144*(4bytes color)*(4*4 scaled) = 1441474560 14:09:54 <oren> 160x144*(4bytes color)*(4*4 scaled) = 1474560 14:10:36 <oren> maybe I'll instead store some sort of hash for easier comparison 14:11:40 <b_jonas> 4 levels of grayscale 14:11:43 <b_jonas> not 4 bytes color 14:12:07 <oren> b_jonas: the coloring also happens before I can get to is 14:12:21 <oren> so if you want palets to work with it 14:12:45 <oren> i know, it's fuck 14:12:56 <b_jonas> store just the map, the offsets, sprite pics and locations, and the map tile pictures when they change. 14:13:12 <b_jonas> ok wait, what generation game boy is this? 14:13:45 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 14:13:58 <b_jonas> can you live compress it with some fast algorithm? tiles compress well 14:14:05 <oren> Well the part of the code I understand and know how to modify happens after the sprites are baked into the frame. so yeah 14:14:11 <oren> I can probably do that 14:14:43 <b_jonas> you can also try two-level compression, first compress quickly as you run the game, then later recompress 14:15:20 <oren> then decompress when I'm interpolating? 14:15:33 <b_jonas> yes 14:16:20 <b_jonas> but that's only worth if you want to watch playing of the game live to see it goes well, or want to interact with it 14:16:28 <b_jonas> if it's a fixed known good emulation, then don't bother 14:16:36 <b_jonas> then compress it in one phase 14:18:44 <oren> what is a good fast hashing scheme? 14:19:59 <oren> (fast on X86, that is) 14:20:43 <mroman_> oren: and VRAM? 14:21:05 <oren> 16 kb 14:21:21 <mroman_> is that for the gameboy monochrome? 14:21:23 <mroman_> or the colour one? 14:21:41 <oren> color 14:21:49 <mroman_> wow 14:21:50 <mroman_> impressive 14:22:08 <oren> monochrome is 8kb 14:23:56 <oren> fuck it, I'll just do some stupid simple rotate-xor thing 14:24:32 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:25:16 <oren> get the 9 pixels around, rotate each one by its position from 1-9, xor them all together into a 32 bit unsigned 14:25:34 <oren> that ughta do it 14:26:08 <b_jonas> oren: or use multiplication too 14:26:20 <oren> actually that would work better 14:26:30 <oren> colors tend to have repetitive bits 14:27:32 <oren> multiply each color by a 8 bit prime, xor them together 14:27:44 <b_jonas> multiply each 16 bit word with some nice number, taking the low or high bits of the result, whichever you choose, but the high bits only if you multiply by a number, different for each word so that shifted pics differ, and add them together 14:29:32 <b_jonas> then maybe log how many collisions you get to find out if it's a good algorithm or not 14:30:10 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:30:15 <oren> if we get collisions the screen will look... horribly wrong i think 14:34:11 <b_jonas> oren: you always get some collisions 14:34:19 <b_jonas> occasionally 14:34:39 <b_jonas> so you have to do a proper hash table lookup too, not just a hash function 14:35:00 <b_jonas> it's just _too many collisions_ that you should avoid 14:36:01 <mroman_> what are you hashing for? 14:36:07 <mroman_> (I'm really nooby in computer graphics) 14:36:29 <oren> To allow easy detection of when a 5x5 pixel area matches a previous frame's shifted. 14:36:49 <oren> or 3x3 or whatever I decide 14:37:19 <mroman_> shifted what? 14:37:29 <oren> shifted area 14:38:59 <oren> in other words, if the current frame locally looks like the frame 5 frames ago, except moved 1 pixel left, and the frame 10 frames ago is shifted 2 pixels, we want to interpolate so that the frames move smoothly 14:39:10 <oren> in realtime 14:39:20 <oren> on top of emulating a game boy 14:39:53 <oren> and dynamically, intelligently scaling the screen up so each pixel becomes 16 14:39:58 <b_jonas> so you have to do it in real time? 14:40:08 <oren> well yeah it's an emulator 14:40:14 <b_jonas> I see 14:40:46 <oren> I program for the same reason I play games, because they're HARD! 14:41:24 <mroman_> I see. 14:41:36 -!- variable has changed nick to rout. 14:41:38 -!- rout has changed nick to trout. 14:43:23 <b_jonas> oren: I still say you should try to access the map and sprite data, or at least parts of it, from the emulator directly 14:43:27 <oren> actually technically, I think the colors don't have an alpha channel. So I could store 3 bytes per color instead 14:43:57 <b_jonas> oren: no no no, figure out the palette first, isn't it always small on any one frame? 14:44:13 <b_jonas> convert to an indexed image 14:44:21 <b_jonas> make sure to try to make the indexes consistent between pictures 14:44:28 <b_jonas> or get the palette directly from the emulator 14:44:44 <b_jonas> the tiles or sprites are not true color, right? 14:44:49 <b_jonas> it's all paletted 14:45:05 <oren> on color game boy i think its' 15 bit color 14:45:12 <b_jonas> really? 14:45:17 <b_jonas> 15 bit color? 14:45:20 <b_jonas> why would they do that? 14:45:24 <b_jonas> that's such a waste 14:45:43 <b_jonas> strange 14:46:48 <oren> oh wait, they are limited to 56 colors per scanline 14:47:29 <b_jonas> oh that's better 14:47:30 <oren> which makes no sense, how do scanlines exist on an LCD anyway? 14:47:48 <b_jonas> oren: because the cpu can in theory change the palette between scan lines 14:48:08 <b_jonas> (or any time really, but the graphics chip reacts slowly) 14:48:25 <b_jonas> the chipset rendering the video still has to process in scan lines 14:48:29 <b_jonas> even if there's no cathode ray 14:48:44 <b_jonas> but very likely the palette changes rarely 14:48:52 <b_jonas> probably only at most once a frame 14:49:54 <oren> well I'll get to writing code, and if it is too slow (on this crap computer which is a good basement, being less powerful than a typical smartphone tthese days) 14:50:01 <fizzie> Quite a few old video chips have per-block things to save on VRAM. 14:50:07 <oren> then i'll opytimize 14:51:18 <oren> and obviously I'll leave in a #define to turn off/on this shit 14:53:25 * Taneb is back 14:53:51 <Taneb> It was an interesting talk, about GP 2 14:54:05 <Taneb> (a language that is a bit like Eodermdrome, in that it is a graph programming language) 14:54:07 <fizzie> I'm pretty sure at least some of the C64 graphics modes have "native" 8x8 blocks where you can have 4 different colors out of a palette of 16 in each block (some details omitted here), and people turn that into 8x1 blocks by doing work for each scanline. 14:54:58 <b_jonas> fizzie: isn't that character mode with 2 bit per pixel deep fonts? 14:55:11 <b_jonas> wait, they do work for each scanline? really? 14:55:25 <b_jonas> don't they just use a 1 pixel high font because there's enough RAM for that? 14:56:18 <fizzie> From what I recall (it's been quite a while since I last fiddled with this), the "normal" multicolor modes have nothing to do with CHARGEN. 14:57:17 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:57:26 <oren> #ifdef MUHUHAHAHA 14:57:38 <b_jonas> #else 14:57:39 <fizzie> http://www.studiostyle.sk/dmagic/gallery/gfxmodes.htm "MultiColor mode generates the screen with resolution 160*200 pixels/16 colors. -- The screen is divided into 40*25 attribute cells. Each attribute cell is 4*8 pixel big. -- In this mode you can use maximum 4 colors in the attribute cell. Each pixel defined by 2 bites can have one of 4 different colors. One of colors is the background color." 14:57:53 <APic> ,o0(#elsif Perl Comment) 14:58:39 <fizzie> Yeah, it's just two-bits-per-pixel graphics mode (hence the horizontal resolution is halved), and the two bits select out of a color palette, and the attribute cells (which are also used for text mode) can be set to select the per-cell colors for that 4x8 (or 8x8 "real" pixels) cell. 14:59:07 -!- Welo has joined. 14:59:41 <b_jonas> ok 14:59:57 <b_jonas> so it's not made of characters 15:00:42 <fizzie> No. The VIC-20 screen is "text mode" only, I think. 15:01:04 <fizzie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_console_palettes#Game_Boy_Color also refers to "mode 3 mid-scanline rendering", claiming that people swap palettes for the GBC even during a scanline. 15:02:25 <b_jonas> fizzie: but do the games really do that every scanline, or just like a few times per frame at most? 15:02:31 <b_jonas> I'd be surprised if they did it every scanline 15:02:54 <APic> Can the original Super Mario Land be glitched? 15:02:55 <fizzie> There are no citations, so I'unno. Probably not. 15:03:14 <Taneb> Is a graph language which operates on an undirected graph of the same power as a similar graph language operating on a directed graph? 15:03:24 <fizzie> b_jonas: I wouldn't be surprised if you could find GBC demos that did it quite often when showing a static image for a while. 15:03:34 <b_jonas> APic: slightly, yes, but there's no really game-breaking glitch 15:03:55 <APic> Nice. 15:04:21 <b_jonas> APic: there's a glitch that lets mario teleport from the left edge of the screen to the right edge sometimes in autoscroller levels, which allows completing 2-3 quicker 15:04:36 <APic> Good. 15:04:42 <b_jonas> APic: and there's some cases when collision detection lets mario apparently pass through enemies and such things 15:04:50 <APic> Cool. 15:05:12 <b_jonas> but nothing that really breaks the game like many other games have 15:05:24 <b_jonas> fizzie: ok 15:06:06 <b_jonas> APic: it's passing through the carnivorous flowers that looks especially strange to me 15:06:13 <APic> lol 15:06:22 <APic> Got a Video-Link? 15:07:07 <b_jonas> APic: http://tasvideos.org/2091M.html 15:07:10 <APic> Thanks. 15:07:16 <b_jonas> (and the hard mode which it links to) 15:07:50 <b_jonas> APic: in theory, it's possible that it can be glitched by tasers haven't found a way yet, but it's not very likely 15:08:00 <b_jonas> it's a pretty well studied game 15:08:33 <APic> Ok. 15:08:36 <APic> Figures. 15:18:08 <Taneb> I think that it is possible to translate graph programs operating on a directed graph to graph programs operating on an undirected graph 15:22:49 <oren> well sure. translate the directed graph to a graph with Y's where the prongs of the y are connected to the source and the bottom is connected to the destination. 15:23:13 <oren> wait that might be ambiguous 15:24:44 <oren> foreach edge from A to B, create nodes C,D,E and edges AC, AD, CE,DE, EB 15:26:23 <oren> hopefully that is less ambigious 15:27:17 <oren> would that work? 15:27:45 <APic> lulz 15:27:49 <APic> The Flower-Thingy owns! 15:35:05 <tswett> > ord 'o' - ord 'g' 15:35:11 <lambdabot> 8 15:36:01 <Taneb> > ((-) `on` ord) 'o' 'g' 15:36:06 <lambdabot> 8 15:37:57 <oren> > chr (ord 'o' + 8) 15:38:01 <lambdabot> 'w' 15:38:10 <oren> > chr (ord 'w' + 8) 15:38:17 <lambdabot> '\DEL' 15:38:26 <oren> > chr (ord '\DEL' + 8) 15:38:32 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 15:38:38 <oren> WHAT 15:39:20 <oren> it... ran out of time? how is that the error, ratehr than "there is no character with that number" 15:40:02 <oren> > chr (ord '\DEL' + 8) 15:40:12 <lambdabot> '\135' 15:40:17 <oren> oh 15:40:44 <oren> > chr 0xffc4 15:40:48 <lambdabot> '\65476' 15:40:55 <oren> fail 15:42:09 <oren> oh wait 15:42:12 <Taneb> :t char 15:42:16 <lambdabot> Char -> Doc 15:42:18 <oren> > chr 0xff21 15:42:25 <lambdabot> '\65313' 15:42:29 <oren> fail 15:42:30 <Taneb> > char $ chr 0xffc4 15:42:35 <lambdabot> ￄ 15:42:40 <Taneb> > char $ chr 0xff21 15:42:45 <lambdabot> Ａ 15:43:04 <Melvar> > maxBound :: Char 15:43:08 <lambdabot> '\1114111' 15:43:41 <oren> FFC4 is a halfwidth hangul 15:43:53 <Taneb> > char $ chr 0x2615 15:44:00 <lambdabot> ☕ 15:44:06 <b_jonas> we have halfwidth hanguls? 15:44:11 <oren> yah 15:44:12 <b_jonas> what the heck are those used for? 15:44:17 <oren> fow korean 15:44:26 <b_jonas> um… but halfwidth? 15:44:37 <coppro> for when you can't handle fullwidth 15:44:48 <b_jonas> crazy 15:46:12 <tswett> > 1111111111111111111111111111 + 1111111111111111111111111111 15:46:17 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 15:46:31 <tswett> lambdabot is currently inebriated. 15:46:32 <oren> ｾｰﾑ ﾘｰｿﾝ ｳｨ ﾊﾌﾞ ﾊｰﾌ ｳｨｽﾞﾄ ｶﾀｶﾅ 15:46:54 <coppro> those aren't hangul 15:47:43 <coppro> wait, what's ｳｨ 15:47:47 <oren> Wi 15:47:53 <coppro> `unidecode ｳ 15:47:54 <HackEgo> ​[U+FF73 HALFWIDTH KATAKANA LETTER U] 15:48:13 <coppro> I thought wi was written as W-small-i 15:48:19 <coppro> *wa-smalli 15:48:22 <oren> it is, and I did 15:48:28 <coppro> ah ok 15:48:35 <oren> U-smalli 15:48:48 <coppro> now I can't trust anything you write 15:49:34 <oren> there is also the old kana ヰ but there is no halfwidth of that 15:50:04 <coppro> oren: where did you learn Japanese? 15:51:00 <oren> I took a course in my first summer of university, and then I went to Japan to attend an intensive course at a school in Tokyo 15:51:26 <oren> Then I kept it up my reading manga and watching anime 15:51:37 <b_jonas> oren: I think halfwidth kana were used on systems like VGA text mode that can display a 256 or 512 character font with only 8 or 9 or 12 wide character cells 15:51:49 <oren> yeah probably 15:51:57 <b_jonas> where they can be displayed mixed with latin letters 15:51:58 <oren> same for hangul then 15:52:06 <b_jonas> but I don't see how hangul would be used that way 15:52:30 <oren> well you just decompose the blocks into the jamo 15:52:38 <oren> and then write them in order 15:53:20 <oren> or something? Some of these ones have multiple jamo in one bloakc 15:53:31 <coppro> hangul are cool 15:53:59 <b_jonas> hmm… maybe 15:54:07 <b_jonas> but that's a bit ugly 15:57:10 <oren> The kana do something similar in that the handakuten ﾟ and dakuten ﾞ are separate characters rather than on the kana 15:58:33 <oren> which is why the spacing of for example ｺﾞﾝﾄﾞﾗ si weird 15:59:41 <oren> in regular it would be ゴンドラ 16:00:58 <tswett> I found a sed command in the neural net output that I'm pretty sure it just memorized. Lemme test it out. 16:01:08 <tswett> `run echo spaghetti | sed -e 's/^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/' 16:01:09 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 31: invalid reference \2 on `s' command's RHS 16:01:43 <tswett> Maybe not? 16:01:57 <oren> that's an extended regex 16:02:11 <tswett> Can I make it work? 16:02:13 <oren> sed by default requires \(\) 16:02:23 <tswett> `run echo spaghetti | sed -e 's/^\([^aeiou]+\)\(.*\)$/\1\2 shm\2/' 16:02:24 <HackEgo> spaghetti 16:03:06 <tswett> So the regex didn't match for some reason? 16:03:15 <oren> \+ 16:03:22 <tswett> `run echo spaghetti | sed -e 's/^\([^aeiou]\+\)\(.*\)$/\1\2 shm\2/' 16:03:23 <HackEgo> spaghetti shmaghetti 16:03:27 <tswett> There we go. 16:03:44 <tswett> There must be some option you can give sed that makes it treat those as magic. 16:04:38 <b_jonas> sed -Ee 's/^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/' <<<progress 16:04:42 <b_jonas> `` sed -Ee 's/^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/' <<<progress 16:04:42 <HackEgo> progress shmogress 16:09:19 -!- Welo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:09:48 <tswett> `run sed -Ee 's/^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/' < wisdom/reflection 16:09:49 <HackEgo> sed.-Ee.s/^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/. shmed.-Ee.s/^([^aeiou]+)(.*)$/\1\2 shm\2/. 16:12:18 <tswett> `run sed -Ee 's/[^a-z]//g' wisdom/reflection 16:12:19 <HackEgo> sedesazgwisdomreflection 16:12:28 <tswett> So wise. 16:21:32 <oren> there's that gw again 16:21:40 <oren> gwisdom 16:23:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Or]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43204 * OriginalOldMan * (+356) Created page with "Here is an interpreter in Ruby for the so far known parts of Or: <pre> program = File.open(ARGV[0],"r").read i = 0 stack = [] while i < program.length if program[i] == " " ..." 16:25:53 <myname> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxJVH5TZQFY would play 16:33:37 <APic> Ok. 16:45:43 -!- Welo has joined. 16:49:21 <Taneb> Should there be a category on the wiki for Fancy L-complete languages? 16:58:14 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:59:41 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 16:59:47 <oren> "jump crosses initialization" FUCK YOU GCC 17:00:54 <oren> it's not as if I ACESS the goddamn thing 17:04:45 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:06:51 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:31:49 <oren> SUCESSS!!!! 17:32:05 <oren> FUCK YES! it scrolls pixel by pixel! 17:32:34 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 17:32:35 <oren> MUHUHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA 17:33:25 <shachaf> `wisdom 17:33:26 <HackEgo> monads/Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras. 17:33:34 <shachaf> `wisdom 17:33:34 <HackEgo> marmite/Marmite is a group mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth. 17:34:17 <oren> hold on getting a scren shot 17:37:36 -!- lambdabot has joined. 17:40:00 <oren> http://img.ctrlv.in/img/15/06/11/5579c84856dd6.jpg 17:40:38 <oren> if you look closely you can see that the bg is 1/2 pixel down compared to the spaceship 17:41:02 <oren> it scrolls lovelily. 17:42:28 <oren> there is some flickering whenever a nearby non-background object impinges 17:43:13 <oren> but overall it looks great. maybe I'll take a look later at fixing the flickering somehow 17:46:47 <oren> https://github.com/orenwatson/oren4x/commit/4552012637e4cf8c40f4111b387a2862ca3e8fac 17:48:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:50:17 <oren> hmm my code isn't right 17:55:15 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:57:03 <oren> ha! now it's right. 17:57:33 <oren> but makybe I should store several hashes, of greater and greater area around the pixel. 17:58:37 <oren> first + then □ then a bigger ○ and then a bigger square 18:03:00 <oren> i'll do that after lunch 18:03:33 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 18:14:05 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:19:42 <oren> hey, apparently mednafen has an irc channel 18:21:21 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 18:21:44 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 18:24:51 -!- nortti has changed nick to hvidiecat. 18:24:59 -!- hvidiecat has changed nick to nortti. 18:26:11 -!- nortti has changed nick to quick-brown-fox. 18:26:20 -!- quick-brown-fox has changed nick to nortti. 18:29:54 -!- evalj has joined. 18:33:34 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 18:55:43 -!- atrapado has joined. 19:05:38 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:07:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:11:11 -!- trout has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:16:37 -!- variable has joined. 19:19:40 -!- Elronnd has left. 19:40:44 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:49:28 -!- notfowl has joined. 19:52:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:08:39 -!- notfowl has quit (Excess Flood). 20:08:57 <notfowl> Don't you write tests kirill 20:09:11 -!- notfowl has joined. 20:09:11 -!- notfowl has quit (Excess Flood). 20:10:11 -!- notfowl has joined. 20:21:03 -!- nys has joined. 20:37:21 -!- notfowl has quit (Quit: zz). 20:37:58 -!- fowl has joined. 20:37:58 -!- fowl has quit (Changing host). 20:37:58 -!- fowl has joined. 20:47:14 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:59:20 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:01:13 -!- lleu has joined. 21:01:18 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:24:28 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:27:21 <Taneb> oren, what desktop environment is that? 21:31:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:33:37 <oren> puppy linux JWM 21:45:51 <Taneb> OK 22:00:47 -!- Wright has joined. 22:00:56 <lemurian> blessings to all 22:08:06 -!- Elronnd has joined. 22:08:08 -!- Elronnd has left. 22:08:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:13:52 <pikhq> I used to work with the JWM guy. 22:24:49 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 22:24:57 -!- function has changed nick to constant. 22:34:22 <Taneb> I still love that quartic-time fizzbuzz I wrote 22:34:25 <Taneb> It's so bad 22:36:33 <oerjan> @tell APic <APic> I _think_ NetHack should be nearly Turing-complete. Anybody can elaborate on that? <-- i'm pretty sure that's ais523's job hth 22:36:33 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 22:37:27 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:39:27 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> APic: you should ask ais523. he maintains NetHack. <-- nethack 4. it is unwise to confuse the various variants hth 22:39:28 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 22:41:52 <oerjan> `` echo "\n" 22:41:53 <HackEgo> ​\n 22:43:54 <oerjan> <oren> whoops my bash syntax is off that should be $'\007' <-- ooh 22:44:07 <oerjan> `` ehoc $'\n' 22:44:07 <HackEgo> bash: ehoc: command not found 22:44:12 <oerjan> `` echo $'\n' 22:44:13 <HackEgo> No output. 22:47:45 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:11:01 -!- hjulle has joined. 23:27:35 <FireFly> `` echo $'\x02Hello\x0F world' 23:27:36 <HackEgo> ​Hello world 23:33:07 <shachaf> `wisdom 23:33:08 <HackEgo> nooodl/nooodl is the correct spelling 23:33:15 <shachaf> Hmm. 23:33:39 <shachaf> `cat bin/wisdom 23:33:40 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/"; cat "$F" 23:34:02 -!- boily has joined. 23:35:47 <shachaf> `` echo 'F="$(find wisdom -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl' > bin/wisdom 23:35:51 <HackEgo> No output. 23:36:38 <boily> shellochaf. upgrading noooodl? 23:36:44 <boily> @massages-loud 23:36:44 <lambdabot> oerjan said 57m 16s ago: <boily> APic: you should ask ais523. he maintains NetHack. <-- nethack 4. it is unwise to confuse the various variants hth 23:37:07 <boily> hellørjan. sorry, I won't noobmistake the nethackvariants again. 23:37:07 <shachaf> upgroooooooodl 23:37:18 <boily> @ask nooodl where are you? 23:37:19 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 23:37:25 <shachaf> boily: I'm upgrading wisdom. 23:37:39 <shachaf> I'm considering putting wisdom straight into bin/? 23:38:05 <shachaf> But that's a pretty foundational script. 23:38:13 <oerjan> AAAAA 23:38:28 <oerjan> halloily 23:38:32 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH *mapole* AAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 23:39:50 <shachaf> `` hg log bin/\? 23:39:51 <HackEgo> changeset: 4531:7f957c1f4661 \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Mar 16 01:52:15 2014 +0000 \ summary: <oerjan> revert \ \ changeset: 4530:03afb1619ef2 \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Mar 16 01:51:13 2014 +0000 \ summary: <elliott> revert 1 \ \ changeset: 4288:abb75d738ee1 \ user: HackBot \ date: Tue Ja 23:41:02 <shachaf> boily: isn't the mapole the national tree of canada 23:41:40 <shachaf> oh, "mapole" comes from "maple" 23:41:41 <shachaf> #scow 23:41:49 <shachaf> `? mapole 23:41:50 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. 23:41:54 <shachaf> scow scow scow 23:43:27 <shachaf> `wisdom 23:43:28 <HackEgo> atm/An ATM is when you're withdrawing money right now at a machine that will steal your relevant info 23:43:34 <boily> according to Google Translate, a scow is a "wide-beamed sailing dinghy". 23:44:02 <shachaf> `wisdom 23:44:04 <HackEgo> m&ndash;rdalsj&ouml;kull/M&ndash;rdalsj&ouml;kull is a draconic volcano harbouring the secret KATL base. 23:44:21 <shachaf> `wisdom 23:44:22 <HackEgo> onëliner/onëliners are pairs of unfathomable vectors in the category of exponential distance. 23:44:30 <boily> `wisdom 23:44:31 <HackEgo> gaspatsjo/gaspatsjo is a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days 23:46:26 <boily> and now, I have some Enya stuck in my head. 23:51:03 <shachaf> `` echo 'hg log "$1" | grep summary: | awk '\''{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}'\'' | xargs' > bin/culprits; chmod +x bin/culprits 23:51:04 <HackEgo> No output. 23:51:08 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/mapole 23:51:09 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan boily boily 23:51:31 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/canada 23:51:32 <HackEgo> boily 23:51:38 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/Tanventions 23:51:40 <HackEgo> No output. 23:51:44 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/tanvention 23:51:45 <shachaf> er 23:51:46 <HackEgo> No output. 23:51:52 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/tanebvention 23:51:53 <HackEgo> oerjan Taneb oerjan oerjan oerjan FireFly oerjan boily oerjan oerjan 23:52:41 <shachaf> `culprits bin/? 23:52:42 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott shachaf oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan nooodl Roujo nooodl__ shachaf oerjan ais523 ais523 oerjan Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan Jafet elliott FreeFull oerjan nitia 23:52:51 <shachaf> I guess pinging people like that isn't very polite. 23:53:38 <FireFly> `cat bin/culprits 23:53:39 <HackEgo> hg log "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | xargs 23:53:41 <shachaf> sorry, y'all 23:54:01 <FireFly> You could insert zero-width spaces after the first character in each nick 23:54:05 <FireFly> also consider uniq 23:54:32 <FreeFull> =P 23:54:54 <shachaf> I kind of like seeing the full history. 23:55:07 <shachaf> But it might be more useful with uniq. 23:55:10 <shachaf> patches welcome hth 23:55:26 <boily> from what I see, the first culprit in time is the last in the list? 23:55:34 <boily> (who's nitia?) 23:55:42 <shachaf> Yes, same as hg log. 23:55:57 <boily> @ask Roujo quand est-ce que ça te dirait de revenir dans le chännel une fois, juste de même, sans pression? 23:55:58 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 23:56:15 <shachaf> `culprits bin/culprits 23:56:16 <HackEgo> shachaf 23:56:32 <oerjan> boily: you realize you share another channel with him, right? 23:56:33 <shachaf> It occurs to me that the le/rn trick could be used for creating arbitrary files. 23:56:38 <shachaf> And even chmodding them +x and so on. 23:57:04 <boily> oerjan: uuuuuuuuuuuuh... >_>'... 23:57:12 * boily whistles innocently 23:58:12 <FireFly> `` sed -ri 's,xargs,sed "s/./&\xE2\x80\x8B/" | &,' bin/culprits 23:58:14 <HackEgo> No output. 23:58:18 <FireFly> `culprits bin/culprits 23:58:23 <HackEgo> xargs​ireFly xargs​hachaf 23:58:28 <FireFly> oops 23:58:58 <FireFly> `` sed -ri 's,xargs,sed "s/./\&\xE2\x80\x8B/" | &,' bin/culprits 23:59:02 <FireFly> er 23:59:06 <FireFly> `revert 23:59:07 <HackEgo> No output. 23:59:12 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 23:59:20 <boily> xarshachaf. he he he :D 23:59:36 <FireFly> `cat bin/culprits 23:59:36 <HackEgo> hg log "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/./xargs​/" | xargs 23:59:39 <oerjan> hmph that message again 23:59:46 <boily> `culprits pineapple 23:59:48 <HackEgo> No output. 23:59:51 <boily> ...? 2015-06-12: 00:00:00 <FireFly> `` sed -i 's/xargs/\&/' bin/culprits 00:00:02 <HackEgo> No output. 00:00:07 <Taneb> `culprits culprits 00:00:08 <HackEgo> No output. 00:00:12 <FireFly> `culprits bin/culprits 00:00:13 <HackEgo> F​ireFly F​ireFly F​ireFly F​ireFly s​hachaf 00:00:32 <FireFly> Now with less pings 00:00:34 <oerjan> `` rm -r canary; echo toot >canary 00:00:36 <HackEgo> No output. 00:00:40 <oerjan> `cat canary 00:00:41 <HackEgo> toot 00:00:49 <shachaf> FireFly: Those characters really really mess up my terminal. 00:00:58 <FireFly> oh. 00:01:01 <shachaf> Can you just put ^O in instead? 00:01:04 <FireFly> It's a UTF-8-encoded zero-width space 00:01:31 <oerjan> `dontaskdonttelllist 00:01:33 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: q​u​i​n​t​o​p​i​a​ c​o​p​p​r​o​ m​y​n​a​m​e​ 00:01:39 <oerjan> shachaf: what about that one? 00:01:50 <shachaf> oerjan: I think all non-ASCII channels mess up my terminal. 00:01:54 <shachaf> This channel is awful to be in. 00:02:04 <oerjan> shachaf: i meant that command specifically 00:02:08 <shachaf> Fortunately my computer at home doesn't have that problem. 00:02:14 <shachaf> oerjan: Yes, that command too. 00:02:19 <oerjan> hmph 00:02:31 <oerjan> shachaf: i declare you unfit to complain hth 00:02:33 <FireFly> `` sed -i 's/&[^/]*/\&\\x0F/' bin/culprits 00:02:35 <HackEgo> No output. 00:02:39 <FireFly> `cat bin/culprits 00:02:39 <HackEgo> hg log "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/./&\x0F/" | xargs 00:02:45 <FireFly> `culprits bin/culprits 00:02:46 <HackEgo> FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly shachaf 00:02:53 <FireFly> that did not work well 00:03:30 <shachaf> It didn't? 00:03:35 <FireFly> It pinged me 00:03:37 <shachaf> I can't tell because I have a hilight on chaf\b 00:03:48 <FireFly> ahachaf 00:04:16 <FireFly> I'm not sure why it didn't work, though 00:04:26 <Taneb> I wrote a kind of bad fizzbuzz again 00:04:27 <Taneb> http://sprunge.us/gCFe?c 00:04:28 <shachaf> Maybe you have a hilight on ireFly\b? 00:04:37 <FireFly> I don't, as far as I know 00:04:39 <shachaf> `` culprits bin/culprits | xxd 00:04:40 <HackEgo> 0000000: 460f 6972 6546 6c79 2046 0f69 7265 466c F.ireFly F.ireFl \ 0000010: 7920 460f 6972 6546 6c79 2046 0f69 7265 y F.ireFly F.ire \ 0000020: 466c 7920 460f 6972 6546 6c79 2073 0f68 Fly F.ireFly s.h \ 0000030: 6163 6861 660a achaf. 00:04:40 <FireFly> maybe I should 00:05:11 <FireFly> Maybe weechat strips formatting when checking for highlights or something 00:05:14 <shachaf> Does this ping you? FireFly 00:05:18 <FireFly> Yes 00:05:27 <shachaf> Hmph. 00:05:33 <shachaf> The whole point of ^O is to avoid that. 00:05:39 <coppro> zzo38: when you play riichi, what yaku do you normally play with? 00:05:48 <FireFly> I think the usual point of ^O is to reset formatting hth 00:06:22 <boily> coppro: chelloppro! 00:07:06 <shachaf> How about FireFly? 00:07:12 <FireFly> Still highlights 00:07:45 <shachaf> Originally I was going to make culprits rot13 00:07:56 <FireFly> That works, too 00:08:00 <shachaf> But then I remembered that I have my rot13ed nick on hilight too. 00:08:13 <boily> only puns, or the whole funpuns? 00:08:14 <FireFly> what if people want to talk about fun puns? 00:08:49 <coppro> boily: hey! 00:08:58 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/firefly 00:08:59 <HackEgo> Bike FreeFull Tanea 00:09:09 <Taneb> Tanea was me I think 00:09:11 <coppro> boily: actually, you too. do you care much about variations in riichi? 00:09:13 <Taneb> I got decremented 00:09:14 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/taneb 00:09:15 <HackEgo> Taneb oerjan oerjan elliott shachaf boily oerjan ais523 ais523 shachaf elliott FreeFull shachaf shachaf oerjan oerjan FreeFull oerjan Taneb nitia 00:09:21 <FireFly> Taneb++ 00:09:23 <Taneb> `? Taneb 00:09:24 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, and cube root of five genders. (See also: tanebventions) 00:09:42 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Tanec. 00:09:46 <FireFly> `` ls wisdom/Tane* 00:09:47 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/Tane*: No such file or directory 00:09:54 <FireFly> `` ls wisdom/tane* 00:09:55 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanea \ wisdom/taneb \ wisdom/tanebvention 00:09:59 <FireFly> `? tanea 00:10:00 -!- Tanec has changed nick to Taneb. 00:10:00 <HackEgo> Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Yorj. 00:11:07 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/boily 00:11:09 <HackEgo> oerjan Jafet oerjan oerjan boily oerjan boily Roujo boily Bike FreeFull ais523 boily oerjan 00:11:20 <shachaf> Is this pinging people other than FireFly? I can't tell. 00:11:25 <oerjan> <Taneb> Is a graph language which operates on an undirected graph of the same power as a similar graph language operating on a directed graph? <-- pretty sure you can reencode the directedness in something undirected? 00:12:38 <oerjan> i'm not pinged hth 00:12:53 <boily> coppro: I like kuitan and kuikae. I don't care much about other variations, although I tend to find yakitori a little bit too stressful. 00:13:27 * boily maplings oerjan 00:13:39 <boily> coppro: do you have any preferences? 00:13:41 <coppro> I've never actually played with yakitori, but I can't imagine liking it 00:13:45 <Taneb> shachaf, it hasn't been pinging me 00:13:52 <Taneb> oerjan, that was my conclusion 00:14:48 <boily> coppro: also, agariyame. quite the saviour when it's the last game of the day and everybody's hungry. 00:14:56 <coppro> heh 00:15:03 <coppro> I have mixed feelings about agariyame 00:15:07 <oerjan> shachaf: actually it pings me in the logs because i search for rjan tdnh 00:15:43 <shachaf> oerjan: how did you manage to logread between then and now twh 00:16:02 <shachaf> FireFly: Can you change it to put the ^O one character before last? 00:16:07 <coppro> on the one hand, it makes the already-envious position of last dealer even better. on the other, being in a situation where you actively want to avoid winning is very weird 00:16:21 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 00:16:25 <boily> coppro: yeah, there are good arguments on both side of the issue. but collective empty stomachs are an emergency by themselves. 00:16:26 <oerjan> shachaf: i didn't, i realized the issue and checked 00:17:12 <coppro> being dealer in orasu is just so good 00:17:32 <coppro> especially in a game where the points spread isn't too tight or too wide 00:18:13 <FireFly> `cat bin/culprits 00:18:14 <HackEgo> hg log "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/./&\x0F/" | xargs 00:18:37 <oerjan> * boily maplings oerjan <-- that didn't actually ping me either, i think the highlight is just on the first word or something. 00:19:25 <oerjan> in any case i've never paid that much attention to in-irssi ping coloring (and i've avoided actual beeping with a passion) 00:19:40 <shachaf> oerjan: whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa 00:19:44 <shachaf> don't you use xchat? 00:19:45 * boily beeps oerjan, then 00:19:52 <boily> weechat is the way to go hth 00:19:56 <shachaf> apparently not 00:20:05 <FireFly> `` sed -ri 's,sed "[^"]*",sed "s/.$/\\x0F\&/",' 00:20:06 <HackEgo> sed: no input files 00:20:11 <FireFly> `` sed -ri 's,sed "[^"]*",sed "s/.$/\\x0F\&/",' bin/culprits 00:20:13 <shachaf> must've been thinking of someone else 00:20:13 <HackEgo> No output. 00:20:18 <FireFly> `cat bin/culprits 00:20:18 <HackEgo> hg log "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs 00:20:29 <FireFly> should be fine I think 00:20:43 <FireFly> `culprits bin/culprits 00:20:44 <HackEgo> FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly shachaf 00:21:52 <shachaf> `` touch hug; hg add hug; hg commit -m hug hug; rm hug 00:21:53 <HackEgo> abort: could not lock working directory of /hackenv: Read-only file system \ abort: could not lock working directory of /hackenv: Read-only file system 00:21:59 <shachaf> hmph 00:23:18 <oerjan> FireFly: um i think it's important to do _both_ at the beginning and end of words. consider _ suffixes. 00:23:20 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 00:23:26 <oerjan> *to do it 00:23:38 <FireFly> Feel free to add the other one, too 00:24:24 <coppro> boily: you guys play with daisharin right? 00:26:02 <boily> coppro: yup. Seven Heavenly Pairs we call them, with 22 over to 88 in the same suit. 00:26:19 <coppro> boily: has it ever happened? 00:26:25 <coppro> our club is new, no yakuman yet 00:26:41 <boily> afaict, this one never happened. 00:27:06 <oerjan> `` ls bin/*ping* 00:27:06 <HackEgo> bin/ping 00:27:09 <boily> we had a few yakumans happen over the years. I managed suuankou and four small winds ^^ 00:27:13 <oerjan> `cat bin/ping 00:27:14 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ echo pong 00:27:27 <coppro> http://arcturus.su/wiki/User:Coppro summarizes everything interesting I've done 00:27:30 <shachaf> oerjan: If I changed it from le/rn to le//rn would y'all object? 00:27:55 <coppro> note the first hand there :( I got the wrong winning tile 00:28:26 <boily> coppro: the most egregiously outrageous yakuman that ever happened here was suuankou and all green, while oya. 00:28:43 <oerjan> shachaf: not sure if we should encourage making subdirectories nilly-willy 00:29:05 <coppro> boily: jeez! 00:29:08 <shachaf> oerjan: Well, I want to make a general-purpose program to make files now. 00:29:19 <coppro> boily: we've had some silliness in 3-man 00:29:20 <shachaf> I'm tired of this echo '...'\''...' > ... thing. 00:29:22 <oerjan> one tricky part is that having dir/file prevents having `? dir itself 00:29:38 <coppro> boily: one game, a player dealt into kazoe yakuman... he wasn't defending because he was tenpai for daisangen 00:29:38 <boily> coppro: ha ha! 00:29:49 <boily> wut? Ō_Ō 00:30:07 <coppro> boily: it's 3-man. this shit happens 00:30:13 <boily> I know. but still! 00:30:29 <oerjan> shachaf: ok well feel free, although maybe we should have both. 00:31:00 <shachaf> Right, I was thinking that le//rn = ma/ke "wisdom/$1" 00:31:20 <shachaf> consistency is all i ask / give us this day our daily mask 00:31:31 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:31:47 <coppro> boily: we have a corner case covered in our rules that if the dealer tenhous a yakuman that upgrades to double based on the wait, they score that double, plus tenhou makes triple. If that ever happens, I'll eat my junk mat. 00:32:07 <shachaf> You can even have a version that auto-chmod+xs. 00:32:12 <shachaf> Think how fancy that would be. 00:34:02 <oerjan> shachaf: oh you want a command that works for bin/ scripts too? but then you'll still have \n problems... 00:34:14 <shachaf> oerjan: true 00:34:17 <boily> coppro: it's a corner case, therefore likely to happen, according to the Universe Perversion Maximisation Law. 00:34:29 <shachaf> although bash scripts don't actually need newlines 00:35:04 <zzo38> Make it so that if you try to access "dir/file" but "dir" is a directory then it will read "dir/.default" that is another way to do 00:35:05 <coppro> boily: riichi seems to really obey that law 00:35:51 <shachaf> zzo38: But what if you try to access dir/.default? 00:36:15 <zzo38> Then it still working, I suppose 00:36:21 <boily> `wisdom 00:36:22 <HackEgo> blsqbot/blsqbot is the owner of the bot 'mroman'. 00:36:25 <zzo38> It is just same thing then. 00:39:26 -!- mushroom has joined. 00:40:07 <boily> `relcome mushroom 00:40:08 <HackEgo> ​mushroom: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 00:40:40 <mushroom> `le/rn culprit/culprits is a program that names those responsible for a wisdom entry. 00:40:42 <HackEgo> Learned «culprit» 00:41:26 <mushroom> `` sed -i 's/wisdom entry/file/' wisdom/culprit 00:41:28 <HackEgo> No output. 00:41:31 -!- mushroom has changed nick to badger. 00:41:36 <badger> `revert 00:41:38 * boily facepalms 00:41:38 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 00:41:53 <boily> mushachadgeroom. 00:42:45 <badger> `` sed -i 's#$# Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY#' wisdom/culprit 00:42:47 <HackEgo> No output. 00:42:48 <oerjan> what, i thought making canary no longer a directory would fix that message :( 00:42:53 <oerjan> `cat canary 00:42:54 <HackEgo> toot 00:43:03 <oerjan> `ls -l canary.orig 00:43:04 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 00:43:07 <oerjan> ``ls -l canary.orig 00:43:08 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ls: not found 00:43:11 <oerjan> `` ls -l canary.orig 00:43:11 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access canary.orig: No such file or directory 00:43:14 <oerjan> argh 00:43:45 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:43:49 <badger> `` sed -i 's/culprits/`culprits`' wisdom/culprit 00:43:49 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 21: unterminated `s' command 00:43:56 <badger> `` sed -i 's/culprits/`culprits`/' wisdom/culprit 00:43:58 <HackEgo> No output. 00:44:53 <badger> `` sed -i 's/names those/lists the people/' wisdom/culprit 00:44:56 <HackEgo> No output. 00:45:02 <badger> `` sed -i 's/people/lists the nicks/' wisdom/culprit 00:45:04 <HackEgo> No output. 00:45:44 <shachaf> i'll leave room for some badgers to do further editing 00:45:56 <oerjan> @tell Gregor `revert gives strange messages about canary.orig, i think we've played to much with the canary file (it was a directory, but is no longer) 00:45:56 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 00:45:58 -!- badger has quit (Quit: snaaaaake). 00:46:47 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/culprit 00:46:48 <HackEgo> badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom 00:47:10 <coppro> what the 00:47:44 <oerjan> *too 00:48:13 <boily> HA HA HA HA HA! 00:48:46 <boily> `addquote <HackEgo> badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom 00:48:48 <HackEgo> 1243) <HackEgo> badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom 00:49:14 <coppro> boily: you have to add the context! 00:49:19 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa 00:49:20 <coppro> `cat bin/culprits 00:49:20 <HackEgo> hg log "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs 00:49:22 <shachaf> not with five badgers like that 00:49:26 <shachaf> please add three more first 00:49:37 <coppro> shachaf: you need twelve, no? 00:49:37 <oerjan> this will end well. 00:49:48 <shachaf> coppro: a multiple of four is enough hth 00:50:34 <boily> coppro: context? 00:50:34 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:50:39 -!- boily has changed nick to badger. 00:50:46 <badger> `touch bin/culprits 00:50:47 <HackEgo> No output. 00:50:57 <coppro> badger: the `culprits 00:51:04 <badger> `touch wisdom/culprit 00:51:05 <HackEgo> No output. 00:51:11 <badger> `culprits culprit 00:51:14 <HackEgo> No output. 00:51:24 <badger> `culprits wisdom/culprit 00:51:25 <HackEgo> badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom 00:51:52 <badger> `? culprit 00:51:52 <HackEgo> ​`culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY 00:52:07 <badger> `le/rn culprit/`culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY 00:52:08 <HackEgo> Learned «culprit» 00:52:09 <badger> `le/rn culprit/`culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY 00:52:10 <HackEgo> Learned «culprit» 00:52:13 <badger> `le/rn culprit/`culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY 00:52:13 <HackEgo> Learned «culprit» 00:52:21 <badger> `culprits wisdom/culprit 00:52:23 <HackEgo> badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom 00:52:26 <oerjan> hint: HackEgo doesn't commit files that haven't changed hth 00:52:27 <badger> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAURGH! 00:52:38 <badger> `le/rn culprit/`culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTR 00:52:39 <HackEgo> Learned «culprit» 00:52:41 <badger> `le/rn culprit/`culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENT 00:52:43 <HackEgo> Learned «culprit» 00:52:45 <badger> `le/rn culprit/`culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY 00:52:47 <HackEgo> Learned «culprit» 00:52:50 <badger> `culprits wisdom/culprit 00:52:52 <HackEgo> badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom 00:53:11 <badger> bon. m'a toujours bin finir par l'avoir. maudite patente à gosse de marche tout croche. 00:53:17 <oerjan> incidentally i saw a badger cross the street the other day 00:53:19 -!- badger has changed nick to boily. 00:53:34 <boily> `delquote 1243 00:53:37 <HackEgo> ​*poof* <HackEgo> badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom 00:53:53 <boily> `addquote <HackEgo> badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom 00:53:55 <HackEgo> 1243) <HackEgo> badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom 00:53:58 <boily> good. 00:56:40 <oerjan> `poulet precognitive 00:56:43 <HackEgo> PRECOGNITIVE CHICKEN 00:57:22 <oerjan> also, google translate does not handle québécois well. 00:58:18 <shachaf> It should've been bin/culprits itself with that history. :-( 00:58:20 <shachaf> squandered 00:58:38 <oerjan> tragic 00:59:18 <boily> oerjan: “now. I'll finally git'er done. damned thingy that won't work by itself.” 01:12:51 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 01:16:12 <FireFly> oerjan: why did the badger cross the street? 01:16:27 -!- adu has joined. 01:22:04 <zzo38> How to make a CGI program that will cause Apache to request authorization? 01:23:44 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:25:25 <Phantom_Hoover> `poulet what 01:25:26 <HackEgo> WHAT CHICKEN 01:25:55 <boily> itym wat. 01:26:12 <boily> ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wat_(food) ) 01:26:13 <idris-bot> (input):1:8: error: unexpected 01:26:13 <idris-bot> Operator without known fixity: 01:26:13 <idris-bot> ://, expected: space 01:26:13 <idris-bot> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wat_(food) )<EOF> 01:26:13 <idris-bot> ^ 01:26:45 -!- Wright has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:28:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ARROW CHICKEN). 01:30:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:38:15 <oren> normal sized faces are what america need right now 01:53:11 <oerjan> FireFly: it was its turn to visit the chicken hth 01:57:01 * oerjan is currently archive binging The Whiteboard. he's not sure if there have been any badgers yet, although the main cast includes a lot of other carnivore mammals. (and one hare.) 01:59:14 <oerjan> while waiting for doc's pizza teleporting technology to come to norway, i shall now heat one the old fashion way -> 02:00:22 <shachaf> oerjan: have you considered archive googling instead hth 02:01:49 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:02:09 <oerjan> shachaf: no tdnh 02:07:24 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:20:44 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 02:21:25 * oerjan feels stupid 02:22:37 <oerjan> i forgot to take the ovenware out of the oven before turning it on 02:25:23 <oerjan> crisis circumvented 02:25:47 <shachaf> `learn wisdom: taking the ovenware out of the oven before turning it on 02:25:49 <HackEgo> Learned 'wisdom:': wisdom: taking the ovenware out of the oven before turning it on 02:26:06 * oerjan hopes this doesn't mean the pizza will be burned on the underside 02:26:46 <shachaf> as they say, a clever person can get out of trouble that a wise person doesn't get into 02:27:21 <shachaf> hmm, in retrospect this is kind of rude :'( 02:27:26 <oerjan> i suppose i'm moderately clever, then 02:27:33 <oerjan> 's okay 02:27:43 <oerjan> i haven't been wise for years 02:37:38 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:41:54 <shachaf> oerjan: how's your norwegian pizza twh 02:47:06 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:47:07 <HackEgo> gotton/gotton is a quantum of attention. Solain drives the packet. 02:47:12 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:47:12 -!- adu has joined. 02:47:13 <HackEgo> hello/hello hello hello, what's all this then? 02:47:24 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/hello 02:47:25 <HackEgo> Bike FreeFull Taneb 02:47:37 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:47:52 <oerjan> shachaf: it's the age-reknowned pepperoni and pineapple variant hth 02:48:13 <shachaf> let it be nown 02:48:17 <oerjan> *-k 02:48:27 <oerjan> stpid inlish 02:48:39 -!- Wright has joined. 02:49:03 <oerjan> i should tae an IQ test. i must have dropped at least 30 points. 02:49:25 <coppro> `addquote < oerjan> i should tae an IQ test. i must have dropped at least 30 points. 02:49:27 <HackEgo> 1244) < oerjan> i should tae an IQ test. i must have dropped at least 30 points. 02:49:31 <coppro> `quote coppro 02:49:32 <HackEgo> 102) <coppro> what's the data of? [...] <Sgeo> Locations in a now deceased game called Mutation <coppro> I have no problems with you being interested in online games <coppro> but the necrophilia is disturbing \ 120) <pikhq> INTERNET <coppro> YAY <cpressey> Said like a once-drowning man, rescued, taking a breath. \ 296) <Gregor> Write-only IRC: 02:50:01 <oerjan> `` sed -i '1244s/< o/<o/' quotes 02:50:02 <myndzi> | 02:50:02 <myndzi> /| 02:50:03 <HackEgo> No output. 02:50:13 <oerjan> `quote 1244 02:50:13 <HackEgo> 1244) <oerjan> i should tae an IQ test. i must have dropped at least 30 points. 02:53:55 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:53:56 <HackEgo> ngevd/ngevd is a fake wisdom entry. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ also tswett‼ 02:54:21 <shachaf> foiled again 02:54:27 <shachaf> maybe wisdom should just run ? 02:54:51 <tswett> Who, me? 02:54:53 <oerjan> fun with refactoring 02:55:36 <oerjan> tswett: yes, you 02:56:01 <oerjan> tswett: having an infinite file in wisdom/ makes it impossible to grep through it and stuff 02:56:28 <oerjan> or well, bloody awkward anyway 02:56:43 <tswett> If you just search long enough, you'll find what you're looking for. 02:57:04 * oerjan swats tswett -----### 02:57:24 -!- adu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:57:45 -!- adu has joined. 02:57:59 <tswett> `type type 02:58:00 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found 02:58:03 <tswett> `run type type 02:58:03 <HackEgo> type is a shell builtin 03:00:07 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/entry/entry because having an actual infinite file in wisdom/ makes all manner of stuff bloody awkward/' wisdom/ngevd 03:00:08 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 66: unknown option to `s' 03:00:10 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 03:00:31 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's,entry,entry because having an actual infinite file in wisdom/ makes all manner of stuff bloody awkward,' wisdom/ngevd 03:00:33 <HackEgo> No output. 03:00:44 <oerjan> `cat wisdom/ngevd 03:00:46 <HackEgo> ngevd is a fake wisdom entry because having an actual infinite file in wisdom/ makes all manner of stuff bloody awkward. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ also tswett‼ 03:01:17 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/ngevd 03:01:17 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull shachaf oerjan shachaf shachaf ais523 ais523 Jafet nitia 03:01:25 <oren> tswett is on fire 03:01:43 <oren> tswett is *also* on fire, that is. 03:01:52 <tswett> I'm apparently not one of the culprits? 03:01:53 <shachaf> tswett never even touched that file 03:01:55 <tswett> Why not? 03:01:58 <shachaf> why you gotta be like that 03:02:10 <oerjan> tswett: that's impossible... 03:02:14 <oerjan> oh 03:02:22 <zzo38> That's better now it explain why you should not tamper it to make infinitely and stuff like that. 03:02:27 <tswett> I'm pretty sure I distinctly remember mucking with that file. 03:02:29 <oerjan> tswett: maybe because it was a straightup `revert 03:02:36 <tswett> Maybe. 03:02:44 <tswett> `run ln -s selflink selflink 03:02:44 <shachaf> No, `revert goes in the logs. 03:02:46 <HackEgo> No output. 03:02:49 <tswett> `cat selflink 03:02:51 <HackEgo> cat: selflink: Too many levels of symbolic links 03:02:55 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:02:56 <tswett> `culprits selflink 03:02:57 <HackEgo> tswett 03:03:02 <tswett> `revert 03:03:02 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 03:03:09 <tswett> Um. 03:03:10 <tswett> `ls 03:03:11 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ script.py \ share \ src \ twolines \ Wierd \ wi 03:03:23 <tswett> `ls selflink 03:03:23 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access selflink: No such file or directory 03:03:29 <tswett> `culprits selflink 03:03:30 <HackEgo> tswett 03:03:47 <tswett> &shrug; 03:04:30 <oerjan> `? #esoteric 03:04:33 <HackEgo> ​#esoteric is the only channel that exists. monqy is its centroïd. 03:04:48 <oren> `? oerjan 03:04:49 <HackEgo> Your famous evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. 03:04:59 <shachaf> `culprits #esoteric 03:05:02 <HackEgo> No output. 03:05:11 <shachaf> `` for f in wisdom/*; do hg log "$f" | grep revert; done 03:05:27 <shachaf> `` hg log '#esoteric' 03:05:28 <HackEgo> No output. 03:05:33 -!- bb010g has joined. 03:05:42 <HackEgo> summary: <Bike> revert \ summary: <oerjan> revert \ summary: <oerjan> revert 3875 \ summary: <Bike> revert \ summary: <elliott> revert 1492 \ summary: <Bike> revert \ summary: <Bike> revert \ summary: <Bike> revert \ summary: <Bike> revert \ summary: <Bike> revert \ summary: <Bike> revert \ summary: < 03:09:12 <oren> `? java 03:09:12 <HackEgo> java? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:09:19 <oren> `? C# 03:09:21 <HackEgo> C Pound is Java's good twin. 03:09:34 <shachaf> `` hg log wisdom/* | grep revert | awk '{print $2}' | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn 03:09:36 <HackEgo> ​ 28 <oerjan> \ 13 <elliott> \ 9 <shachaf> \ 3 <ais523> \ 2 <Phantom_Hoover> \ 2 <FreeFull> \ 1 <Sgeo> \ 1 <mrhmouse> \ 1 <Jafet> \ 1 <Gregor> \ 1 <Bike> \ 1 <badger> 03:10:04 <oren> and a partridge in a pear tree 03:10:12 <oerjan> tswett: something has been weird about `revert ever since we played around with ./canary the other day. it's not actually broken (any more than it used to be) though 03:11:08 <shachaf> it actually is more broken than it used to be hth 03:11:29 <oren> `? C++ 03:11:30 <HackEgo> Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people. 03:11:45 <oren> `? emacs 03:11:46 <HackEgo> emacs? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:11:52 <oren> `? vi 03:11:53 <HackEgo> vi? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:12:03 <tswett> `mkdir emoticons 03:12:03 <HackEgo> No output. 03:12:10 <tswett> `run echo '¯\(°​_o)/¯' > emoticons/shrug 03:12:12 <HackEgo> No output. 03:12:17 <tswett> `cat emoticons/shrug 03:12:17 <HackEgo> ​¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:12:20 <tswett> Useful. 03:13:00 <oerjan> shachaf: is there anything other than the weird error message? 03:13:29 <oerjan> anyway tswett's wisdom/ngevd edits are clearly listed in the hg browser. 03:15:16 <oerjan> ...but not if i look at the logs for the file. sheesh. 03:16:05 <shachaf> hmph 03:16:21 <shachaf> `culprits selflink 03:16:22 <HackEgo> tswett 03:16:26 <shachaf> `rm selflink 03:16:28 <HackEgo> No output. 03:16:30 <shachaf> `` echo hi > selflink 03:16:33 <HackEgo> No output. 03:16:35 <shachaf> `culprits selflink 03:16:36 <HackEgo> shachaf tswett 03:17:49 <oren> `cat >emoticons/gaan <<<'(°Д°)' 03:17:49 <HackEgo> cat: >emoticons/gaan <<<'(°Д°)': No such file or directory 03:17:59 <oren> ``cat >emoticons/gaan <<<'(°Д°)' 03:18:00 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `cat: not found 03:18:08 <oren> `` cat >emoticons/gaan <<<'(°Д°)' 03:18:11 <HackEgo> No output. 03:18:27 <oren> `cat emoticons/gaan 03:18:28 <HackEgo> ​(°Д°) 03:19:04 <tswett> `run type '`' 03:19:05 <HackEgo> ​` is /hackenv/bin/` 03:19:24 <tswett> `file bin/` 03:19:26 <HackEgo> bin/`: ASCII text 03:19:32 <tswett> `cat bin/` 03:19:33 <HackEgo> TIMEFORMAT='real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS' exec bash -c -- "$1" 03:19:51 <tswett> `run type run 03:19:52 <HackEgo> bash: line 0: type: run: not found 03:20:27 <tswett> `run echo 'echo run run run' > bin/run 03:20:29 <HackEgo> No output. 03:20:31 <tswett> `run run 03:20:31 <HackEgo> bash: /hackenv/bin/run: Permission denied 03:20:38 <tswett> `run chmod +x bin/run 03:20:39 <HackEgo> No output. 03:20:42 <tswett> `run run 03:20:42 <HackEgo> run run run 03:20:52 <tswett> `run something else to make sure I didn't permanently break HackEgo 03:20:53 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 03:21:03 <tswett> An error message. Whew. 03:21:36 <oren> `cat emoticons/gaan 03:21:37 <HackEgo> ​(°Д°) 03:21:49 <oren> see. useful. 03:22:13 <shachaf> Not a fan of those things. 03:22:41 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:22:42 <HackEgo> atrix/Atrix is a brand of hand cream. Not to be confused with atriq. 03:23:16 <shachaf> not to be confused with atrus 03:23:37 -!- Nihilumbra has joined. 03:25:13 <oren> `` cat >emoticons/kyaa <<<'(≧∇≦)/' 03:25:17 <HackEgo> No output. 03:25:25 <Nihilumbra> I passed my finals 03:25:32 <oren> `cat emoticons/kyaa 03:25:33 <HackEgo> ​(≧∇≦)/ 03:25:34 <oerjan> congrats! 03:25:40 <oren> omodetou 03:25:49 <Nihilumbra> Oh oren how do you get all these emoticons 03:26:42 <oerjan> they are spontaneously created from his intense pain of knowing japanese 03:26:48 <coppro> `ls emoticons 03:26:49 <HackEgo> gaan \ kyaa \ shrug 03:27:00 <Nihilumbra> I don't normally type, But Im surprised how fast I can type 90-110 words perminute 03:27:01 <coppro> truly the internet's greatest repository of emoticons 03:27:15 <coppro> Nihilumbra: try typing that speed but twice as fast 03:27:29 <Nihilumbra> My fingers would break 03:27:32 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:27:39 <oren> here is a good website: http://emoji.vis.ne.jp/ 03:28:06 <Nihilumbra> What's that one disorder that makes it hard to hold stuff and your hands shake a lot because I probably have that 03:28:21 <oerjan> parkinsons maybe? 03:28:26 <Nihilumbra> Yeah 03:28:50 <Nihilumbra> I thought it was that but my medical terminology is out of date by a few years 03:29:01 <coppro> no, you're fingers would be fine, since you're typing at the same speed 03:29:30 <Nihilumbra> but you said twice as fast 03:29:54 <coppro> well yeah but at the same speed 03:30:51 -!- password2 has joined. 03:30:52 <Nihilumbra> Ok 03:31:04 <oerjan> sounds reasonable. 03:32:05 <Nihilumbra> How are you oerjan 03:32:34 <oerjan> full hth 03:33:46 <Nihilumbra> What does that mean? 03:34:00 <oren> means he's not hundry 03:34:11 <oren> s/hundry/hungry/ 03:34:22 <Nihilumbra> Oh ok 03:34:27 <coppro> it means "hope that helps". it's what he says when he doesn't really 03:35:22 <Nihilumbra> I know what hth means hth 03:36:09 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/hg/hg --removed/' bin/culprits 03:36:11 <HackEgo> No output. 03:36:15 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/ngevd 03:36:17 <HackEgo> hg: option --removed not recognized 03:36:21 <shachaf> oops 03:36:23 <shachaf> `revert 03:36:25 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 03:36:32 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/log/log --removed/' bin/culprits 03:36:36 <HackEgo> No output. 03:36:38 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/ngevd 03:36:39 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan tswett tswett oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull shachaf elliott oerjan shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf ais523 ais523 Jafet Jafet Jafet Jafet oerjan Jafet shachaf shachaf oerjan FreeFull shachaf shachaf nitia 03:37:00 <Nihilumbra> ? 03:37:01 <shachaf> oerjan: hth 03:37:08 <tswett> I think oerjan says "hth" at literally random times. 03:37:22 <Nihilumbra> Why isn't Taneb on there 03:37:30 <oerjan> shachaf: tdh thx 03:37:40 <shachaf> tswett: if they're random how do you explain the fact that they always come in pairs 03:37:47 <oren> `whereis Taneb 03:37:49 <HackEgo> Taneb: 03:37:56 <tswett> Like, it's generated by quantum noise. 03:37:58 <Nihilumbra> 'e is in here 03:38:10 <tswett> shachaf: because if they came alone, they'd be affected by the Pauli exclusion principle. 03:38:18 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: i think Taneb may have stayed carefully away from that file 03:38:28 <Nihilumbra> heh 03:38:39 <oerjan> tswett: what a rigidulous idea tdnh 03:38:55 <Nihilumbra> Quantum physics is not my forte 03:39:09 <oren> `? quantum 03:39:10 <HackEgo> quantum? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:39:15 <tswett> oerjan: THAWFLSFYAAYSFLF 03:41:18 * oerjan thinks tswett is inviting him to a free lunch somehow but isn't sure 03:41:19 <Nihilumbra> tswett: ?? 03:41:38 <tswett> Nihilumbra: several of those words contain asterisks. 03:41:50 <tswett> I think we should censor all but the last letter of curse words. 03:41:57 <tswett> "***k you, you piece of ***t!" 03:42:38 <Nihilumbra> oh 03:42:45 <tswett> Or we should use arbitrary letters, followed by three asterisks, as swear words. 03:43:05 <oerjan> q*** stupid 03:43:11 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm hereby inviting you to a free lunch in berkeley, ca hth 03:43:20 <oerjan> ooh 03:43:21 <tswett> "You g***er, I'm gonna come over there and h*** your i***ing k***! See how you like THAT, you l***ing piece of m***!" 03:43:45 <Nihilumbra> Or you could use @#&*/ for censoring 03:43:52 <tswett> You golfer, I'm gonna come over there and howl your itching kite! See you you like THAT, you licking piece of meat! 03:44:01 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: doesn't work in a programming channel hth 03:44:23 <tswett> > let a @#&*/ b = b ^ a in 2 @#&*/ 5 03:44:23 <Nihilumbra> isee 03:44:25 <lambdabot> 25 03:44:54 <Nihilumbra> Oh I see 03:45:32 <oerjan> tswett: very graphic 03:46:30 <Nihilumbra> oerjan are you married? 03:48:51 <zzo38> Don't censor any 03:49:07 <zzo38> It can cause a mess, except for self-censoring where you can see properly 03:49:19 <tswett> I'll censor *** word I want! 03:49:19 <oren> I instinctually said q*** in my mind as quack 03:49:44 <zzo38> Censor it if you want to, but only your own message please 03:49:48 <Nihilumbra> try to turn the voice in your head up 03:49:56 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: never been 03:50:03 <tswett> So that everyone can hear everything I think? 03:50:03 <zzo38> And also, if ALL of the words are censor then probably it is difficult to read. 03:50:06 <Nihilumbra> Ah 03:50:13 <zzo38> (But, sometimes that can be the point) 03:50:58 <Nihilumbra> You seem like a reasonable person with a good personality so I presumed you had a person 03:51:05 <Nihilumbra> Why are you censoring words 03:51:10 <Nihilumbra> its confusing 03:52:06 <oerjan> i c***** see w*** s* c******** 03:52:19 <oerjan> *+** 03:52:35 <Nihilumbra> ******* 03:53:06 <oerjan> Nihilumbra: i think you pasted your password on the channel, you might want to change hth 03:53:42 <Nihilumbra> :+ 03:54:09 <oerjan> *just pasted 03:54:35 <zzo38> `wisdom 03:54:37 <HackEgo> wlcom/Hi! This is a chat about unusual programming tools. For additional info, visit our wiki: <http://bit.ly/C4TUY>. (For unusual things of a contrasting sort, try http://bit.ly/19k9nf8.) 03:54:41 <zzo38> `wise 03:54:42 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wise: not found 03:58:44 -!- Elronnd has joined. 03:58:46 -!- Elronnd has left. 04:01:05 -!- b_jonas has joined. 04:14:39 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:29:31 <tswett> Hum hum. I love trying to compile things using Cygwin that weren't intended to work in Cygwin. 04:29:43 <tswett> The program du jour is Torch. 04:31:07 <tswett> http://pastie.org/10236638 04:31:09 <tswett> /home/tswett/torch/build/exe/luajit-rocks/luajit-2.1/lj_vm.s:6: Error: unknown pseudo-op: `.hidden' 04:31:58 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 04:32:39 <tswett> I see that .hidden is an ELF-specific pseudo-op, so it will never work. 04:33:10 <pikhq> There's no *good* reason for it to not work in PE, but yeah. 04:33:20 <pikhq> (basically, Windows toolchains suck worse than they have to.) 04:33:26 <zzo38> How do I program it so that all links to HTTPS servers will link to HTTP servers instead? 04:33:36 <tswett> Program what? 04:34:14 <pikhq> zzo38: You can't reliably -- there are hosts that do https but not http, and there are hosts where https and http serve different content. 04:35:28 <tswett> So now I'm wondering what's generating lj_vm.s, and out of what. 04:35:38 <tswett> Whatever's generating it seems to think I'm using Linux. 04:38:25 <tswett> Then, uh, how do I figure that out... 04:43:40 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:44:53 -!- b_jonas has joined. 04:46:09 <tswett> I wonder what it's actually trying to build, since /home/tswett/torch/build/exe/luajit-rocks/luajit-2.1 builds just fine. 04:53:19 <shachaf> `wisdom 04:53:20 <HackEgo> willkommen/Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen besuchen Sie das Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf EFnet oder DALnet.) 04:53:24 <shachaf> `wisdom 04:53:25 <HackEgo> misspellings of croissant/misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:54:13 <shachaf> `wisdom 04:54:14 <HackEgo> browser/A browser is a Gopher client for convenient access to Gopher services and documents. 04:54:27 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/browser 04:54:29 <HackEgo> int-e 04:55:04 <Sgeo_> `culprits wisdom/Sgeo 04:55:05 <HackEgo> No output. 04:57:29 <zzo38> I have been trying to find an alternative to the LinuxAssist Development Labs that I am currently using for issues-tracking/wiki of AmigaMML and possibly other programs too, because LinuxAssist Development Labs will be discontinued. I would prefer one with no HTTPS or JavaScript and all operation are possible also by command-line 04:59:38 <zzo38> (I tried asking them, they don't know) 04:59:46 <oerjan> Sgeo_: that file doesn't exist hth 05:00:00 <Sgeo_> `? Sgeo 05:00:01 <HackEgo> Sgeo is a language nomad. (Not to be confused with a language monad.) He invented Metaplace sex, thus killing it within a month. He was Doctor Mengele in his previous life, as evidenced by his norn experiments. 05:00:35 * oerjan watches the gears in Sgeo_'s brain 05:00:57 <zzo38> Has the chage logs been removed? 05:01:02 <Sgeo_> `cat wisdom 05:01:03 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom: Is a directory 05:01:03 <oerjan> no. 05:01:10 <Sgeo_> `ls bin 05:01:11 <HackEgo> ​` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ ! \ ? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ ؟ \ ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ \ \ \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addwep \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ as86 \ aseen \ benvenuto \ bf \ bienvenido \ botsnack \ bseen \ buttsnack \ calc \ cAt \ CaT \ catcat \ cats \ cc \ cdecl \ c++decl \ chroot \ coins \ CoInS \ complain \ co 05:01:27 <Sgeo_> `cat bin/\? 05:01:28 <HackEgo> cat: bin/\?: No such file or directory 05:01:48 <oerjan> i take it Sgeo_ doesn't have a photograph memory for HackEgo stuff. 05:01:53 <oerjan> *photographic 05:03:32 <Sgeo_> `cat bin/? 05:03:33 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \ 05:04:37 <Sgeo_> `ls wisdom 05:04:38 <HackEgo> ​` \ `? \ \ _̰̆̓_̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_̯͙̬̬̦̯͂͋͒ͧ͋̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ? \ ?? \ @ \ \ \ 　 \ ⌨ \ ⊥ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚҉̕ 05:04:40 * oerjan ponders if it's evil to watch other people shave yaks 05:04:49 <Sgeo_> uh 05:05:00 <Sgeo_> `culprits wisdom/sgeo 05:05:02 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott oerjan oerjan ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull oerjan GreyKnight oerjan FreeFull shachaf shachaf nitia 05:05:06 <oerjan> yay! 05:05:23 <Sgeo_> Am I allowed to wtf about the gibberish in the wisdom directory? 05:05:31 <oerjan> feel free 05:05:38 <Sgeo_> `? ngevd 05:05:39 <HackEgo> N,A{B7^r!'i&P=>L#GrQ;4" \ J;{T@\׭`_t1If<4*B˦-<.blxsjӭIh&MC%avՌ|*9;,+/%Ɲ 05:05:49 <Sgeo_> Well, that BELed 05:05:57 <oerjan> that one's special hth 05:06:24 <oerjan> `? @ 05:06:24 <HackEgo> ​@ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour 05:06:34 <oerjan> ah @ 05:06:43 <Sgeo_> `? _̰̆̓_Ì̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_͂͋͒ͧ͋Ì̯͙̬̬̦̯̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ? \ ?? 05:06:44 <HackEgo> _̰̆̓_Ì̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_͂͋͒ͧ͋Ì̯͙̬̬̦̯̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ? \ ??? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:06:51 <Sgeo_> oh 05:06:54 <Sgeo_> `? _̰̆̓_Ì̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_͂͋͒ͧ͋Ì̯͙̬̬̦̯̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ 05:06:54 <HackEgo> _̰̆̓_Ì̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_͂͋͒ͧ͋Ì̯͙̬̬̦̯̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:07:14 <Sgeo_> I'm going to go ahead and guess something was lost in encoding 05:07:23 <oerjan> Sgeo_: wtf are you pasting utf-8 double-encoded tdnh 05:07:30 <shachaf> `cat bin/ls 05:07:30 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^790887 ; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi 05:07:38 <shachaf> `` /bin/ls -id wisdom 05:07:39 <HackEgo> 1053793 wisdom 05:07:51 <oerjan> oh it changed again 05:07:53 <pikhq> UTF-8 encoding UTF-8 is a pretty terrible idea. 05:07:56 <shachaf> `? hello 05:07:57 <HackEgo> hello hello hello, what's all this then? 05:08:14 <oerjan> shachaf: it's a bit meaningless since nothing at the beginning is nicks any longer... 05:08:15 <Sgeo_> oerjan, I see a bunch of 'I' like characters 05:08:45 <oerjan> Sgeo_: me too, which i am assuming are half of utf-8 pairs 05:09:02 <oerjan> which have then been reencoded. although ... let me check the logs 05:09:13 <Sgeo_> oerjan, I saw it as HackEgo output too, not just what I pasted 05:09:33 <oerjan> yep, it's double encoded all right 05:09:53 <shachaf> > binary # ord 'Ì' 05:09:55 <lambdabot> "11001100" 05:10:19 <Sgeo_> UTF-8 should never have BELs that weren't there originally 05:10:21 <oerjan> Sgeo_: where did you see it? 05:10:35 <Sgeo_> oerjan, in the output of `ls wisdom 05:10:37 <oerjan> Sgeo_: if you mean `? ngevd that's raw urandom output 05:10:41 <oerjan> oh. 05:10:46 <Sgeo_> Oh, oops, yeah, the bel was ngevd 05:10:56 <shachaf> your thing is broken hth 05:11:12 <Sgeo_> Or I assume it was a bel 05:11:18 <Sgeo_> Because my client beeped 05:12:48 <zzo38> If you are pasting UTF-8 double-encoded then use the program I wrote which will un-double-encode it! 05:13:39 <shachaf> Where can I get the program you wrote? 05:14:42 <zzo38> I think it is installed in HackEgo, but here is also the copy: http://sprunge.us/YJhQ 05:15:40 <zzo38> And it does a lot more than just that! 05:16:05 <shachaf> zzo38: What do you think of XDR? 05:16:25 <zzo38> In order to un-double-encode UTF-8 you should use the command-line argument "18" 05:16:32 <zzo38> shachaf: I don't know what it is 05:16:50 <shachaf> An old data serialization format. 05:32:02 -!- nszceta has joined. 05:32:09 <zzo38> Unicode is an extremely terrible character set for terminal emulators. 05:32:56 <pikhq> It's entirely possible to make it work, but you're right. 05:33:27 <pikhq> The semantics of it only just barely work with a terminal's semantics, and even then you have to fudge a tiny bit. 05:34:51 <zzo38> Can you change the ls to not mention the PDF but rather just mention the Mercurial repository? That way would work much better and is probably much closer to what you actually intended to do if you typed "ls wisdom" isn't it? 05:35:15 <zzo38> Or else, mention to use /bin/ls in private 05:35:23 <zzo38> Or both 05:43:45 <zzo38> The ID number changed anyways, and furthermore if the default locale (rather than the C locale) is used, it is a different order anyways and won't get any nicknames 05:44:28 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:57:23 <oerjan> `cat bin/ls 05:57:24 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^790887 ; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi 05:57:51 <oerjan> oh it was changed. 05:58:40 <shachaf> 22:09 <oerjan> oh it changed again 05:58:54 <oerjan> no, not the id, the rest 05:59:06 <oerjan> `/bin/ls -id wisdom 05:59:06 <HackEgo> ​/bin/ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `/bin/ls --help' for more information. 05:59:11 <oerjan> `` /bin/ls -id wisdom 05:59:12 <HackEgo> 1053793 wisdom 05:59:23 <shachaf> What changed? 05:59:33 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/790887/1053793/' bin/ls 05:59:34 <HackEgo> No output. 05:59:49 <shachaf> Why does it use inodes? 06:00:38 <shachaf> `` stat -c %i wisdom 06:00:38 <HackEgo> 1053793 06:00:52 <oerjan> easiest way to check that isn't dependent on exact filepath? 06:01:18 -!- Nihilumbra has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:01:31 <shachaf> Why not compare it to wisdom/'s inode rather than hard-coding it in the script, then? 06:02:10 <zzo38> Well, that's another way you can do, now you don't need to hardcode the number. (Although as I said it no longer will result list nicks) 06:03:16 <oerjan> `` ls * 06:03:17 <HackEgo> As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead. 06:03:39 <oerjan> i guess that's as intended. 06:03:57 <shachaf> Ah. I guess. 06:05:18 <oerjan> that message is now deceptive as it doesn't actually work differently in private if you don't know how to work around it 06:05:53 <zzo38> I suppose that is right, but useful if you want to pipe it to something or avoid opening a web browser. 06:06:06 <shachaf> Did it ever work differently in private? 06:06:12 <shachaf> Was that by examining logs or something? 06:06:18 <oerjan> not that i know of 06:06:27 <zzo38> And if you do open a web browser, the Mercurial repository is more closely to what you want probably anyways. 06:13:23 <int-e> `` echo $HOME 06:13:24 <HackEgo> ​/tmp 06:13:28 <int-e> . o O ( 1053793 ==> ls -id /hackenv/wisdom | cut -d' ' -f1 ) 06:14:37 <int-e> actually, why 06:14:40 <int-e> not 06:14:49 <int-e> `` stat -c%i /hackenv/wisdom 06:14:50 <HackEgo> 1053793 06:15:00 <oerjan> fancy 06:15:18 <shachaf> only fancy when int-e does it, huh? 06:15:54 * int-e is typically only reading 20ish lines of backlog each day, sorry. 06:16:19 <oerjan> shachaf: also when i'm not paying attention hth 06:16:38 <shachaf> sorry for making you feel sorry 06:16:45 <int-e> (and I'm not reading sequentially) 06:17:01 <int-e> nah, I'm just a bad person, don't worry :) 06:17:06 <int-e> @bot 06:17:06 <lambdabot> :) 06:17:08 <oerjan> writing long sequentially as you are 06:17:17 <int-e> at least the pet still likes me 06:17:29 <shachaf> `wisdom 06:17:30 <HackEgo> hand/A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. 06:17:49 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/hand 06:17:51 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan 06:17:56 * oerjan waves 06:18:02 <shachaf> `wisdom 06:18:03 <HackEgo> wecome/wecome in pece. 06:18:16 * oerjan throws an inebriated ostrich at shachaf 06:19:24 <zzo38> But what URL do you need for Mercurial to always access the latest copy instead of a specific changeset anyways? 06:19:44 <int-e> zzo38: replace the changeset number by 'tip' 06:20:08 <shachaf> `wisdom 06:20:08 <HackEgo> soup/What soup, Doc? 06:20:12 <shachaf> `wisdom 06:20:13 <HackEgo> england/England is [EXPUNGED]. 06:20:20 <zzo38> int-e: OK, thanks 06:20:27 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/england 06:20:29 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull oerjan FreeFull oerjan oerjan FreeFull elliott oerjan 06:20:43 <zzo38> Yes, that works 06:20:44 <shachaf> a conspiracy of cartographers 06:22:30 <oerjan> `learn Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire. After a famine it sort of split into Ostrich/Hungry. Alas its policy of keeping its head in the sand did not get it through the Great War, and with its final attempts to take flight failing, it ended up cut into several pieces. 06:22:33 <HackEgo> Learned 'ostrich': Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire. After a famine it sort of split into Ostrich/Hungry. Alas its policy of keeping its head in the sand did not get it through the Great War, and with its final attempts to take flight failing, it ended up cut into several pieces. 06:22:59 <int-e> `` cd wisdom; ls | wc 06:22:59 <HackEgo> ​ 1 22 134 06:23:06 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:23:38 <oerjan> zzo38: the `url command should give you the latest version url 06:23:42 <oerjan> `url wisdom 06:23:44 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom 06:23:55 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:24:04 <shachaf> `wisdom 06:24:05 <HackEgo> weetoflake/Weetoflakes are something Taneb invented; they taste sort of purple. 06:24:25 <shachaf> `wisdom 06:24:25 <HackEgo> universal property/Universal properties are the best. 06:26:20 <oerjan> `learn Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire in frequent conflict with Turkey. After a famine it sort of split into Ostrich/Hungry. Alas its policy of keeping its head in the sand did not get it through the Great War, and with its final attempts to take flight failing, it ended up cut into several pieces. 06:26:23 <HackEgo> Learned 'ostrich': Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire in frequent conflict with Turkey. After a famine it sort of split into Ostrich/Hungry. Alas its policy of keeping its head in the sand did not get it through the Great War, and with its final attempts to take flight failing, it ended up cut into several pieces. 06:27:29 <oerjan> `culprits ostrich 06:27:30 <HackEgo> No output. 06:27:38 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/ostrich 06:27:39 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan 06:27:48 <oerjan> this is quite useful 06:28:54 <oerjan> `? turkey 06:28:54 <HackEgo> turkey? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 06:33:38 <oerjan> `learn Turkey was the center of an empire that gobbled up much of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, something which brought them in conflict with Ostrich. In the 19th century the overstuffed empire started declining and after the Great War it was cut up like so much Shish Kebab. 06:33:39 <HackEgo> Learned 'turkey': Turkey was the center of an empire that gobbled up much of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, something which brought them in conflict with Ostrich. In the 19th century the overstuffed empire started declining and after the Great War it was cut up like so much Shish Kebab. 06:37:28 <oerjan> `learn Turkey was the center of an empire that gobbled up much of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, something which brought them into conflict with Ostrich. In the 19th century the overstuffed empire started declining, and after the Great War it was cut up like so much Shish Kebab. 06:37:31 <HackEgo> Learned 'turkey': Turkey was the center of an empire that gobbled up much of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, something which brought them into conflict with Ostrich. In the 19th century the overstuffed empire started declining, and after the Great War it was cut up like so much Shish Kebab. 06:37:53 <Jafet> `cat bin/culprits 06:37:53 <HackEgo> hg log --removed "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs 06:38:19 <Jafet> `culprits bin/culprits 06:38:20 <HackEgo> shachaf shachaf shachaf FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly FireFly shachaf 06:38:28 <zzo38> We can make RDF of the HackEgo wisdom data in order to categorize and so on. Some stuff such as contents and modification times (as well as names of any entries that haven't yet been categorized) can be automatically added by downloading system. 06:39:56 <zzo38> N-Triples is a simplest kind of way to store it, but Turtle or Xturtle is more clean for writing and reading manually. There is also Packed Binary RDF can make even more smaller file. I also made the SQLite extension it can read Xturtle file (and therefore can also read Turtle file, and therefore can also read N-Triples file) so you can also use that to import into a SQL database. 06:40:21 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:41:28 <shachaf> `` echo '[[ "$1" == *//* ]] || exit 1; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$key"; echo "made «$1»"' > bin/mk; chmod +x bin/mk 06:41:30 <HackEgo> No output. 06:42:22 <shachaf> `mk hi//hi 06:42:23 <HackEgo> made «hi//hi» 06:42:28 <shachaf> oops 06:42:33 <shachaf> `cat hi 06:42:34 <HackEgo> hi 06:43:03 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 06:43:04 <shachaf> `mk bin/mk//[[ "$1" == *//* ]] || exit 1; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$key"; echo "made «$key»" 06:43:06 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/mk: line 2: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' \ /hackenv/bin/mk: line 3: syntax error: unexpected end of file \ made «bin/mk//[[ "$1" == *//* ]] || exit 1; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$key"; echo "made «$key»"» 06:43:44 <shachaf> `cat bin/mk 06:43:45 <HackEgo> ​[[ "$1" == *//* ]] || exit 1; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$key"; echo "made «$key»" 06:44:02 <shachaf> `mk hi//ho 06:44:04 <HackEgo> made «hi» 06:44:13 <shachaf> What happened there? 06:45:08 <shachaf> `mk wisdom/hi//hi 06:45:09 <HackEgo> made «wisdom/hi» 06:45:14 <shachaf> `? hi 06:45:15 <HackEgo> hi 06:45:24 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/hi 06:45:28 <HackEgo> No output. 06:46:24 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/made «$key»/$key/' bin/mk 06:46:28 <HackEgo> No output. 06:52:07 <zzo38> You can also use utftovlq to swap pairs of bytes in files with even number of bytes. See? I think it has a lot of possible uses. 06:52:38 <zzo38> Not only for un-double-encoding UTF-8, or double-encoding UTF-8, or converting proper UTF-8 into CESU-8, or whatever. 06:54:15 <zzo38> Make a program "inpl" that accept a filename and command, and allow it to operate on the file in-place. 06:54:43 <zzo38> Or, the shell syntax to do such thing 06:59:22 <Jafet> The "sponge" program does that. 06:59:43 <zzo38> O, OK 07:00:59 <zzo38> `? just intonation 07:01:00 <HackEgo> just intonation? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 07:04:17 <shachaf> `mk bin/mke//key=$(mk "$@") && echo "$key" || exit; chmod +x "$key" 07:04:19 <HackEgo> bin/mke 07:04:59 <shachaf> `mk bin/mke//key=$(mk "$@") && echo "$key" && chmod +x "$key" 07:05:01 <HackEgo> bin/mke 07:05:08 <shachaf> `` chmod +x bin/mke 07:05:10 <HackEgo> No output. 07:05:49 <zzo38> Now it is good 07:06:04 <shachaf> `mk bin/mk//[[ "$1" == *//* ]] || exit 1; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$key" && echo "$key" 07:06:05 <HackEgo> bin/mk \ /hackenv/bin/mk: line 2: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' \ /hackenv/bin/mk: line 3: syntax error: unexpected end of file 07:06:49 <shachaf> If you wanted to you could add mkdir -p too. 07:07:40 <zzo38> Oops now that is also broke? 07:07:56 <shachaf> No, it works. 07:07:59 <shachaf> `cat bin/mk 07:08:00 <HackEgo> ​[[ "$1" == *//* ]] || exit 1; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$key" && echo "$key" 07:09:23 <shachaf> `mke bin/boo//echo "$0" "$@" 07:09:25 <HackEgo> bin/boo 07:09:29 <shachaf> `boo blah 07:09:30 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/boo blah 07:09:36 <Jafet> `mk wisdom/just intonation//Bad-tempered people can be recognized by just intonation. 07:09:38 <HackEgo> wisdom/just intonation 07:09:40 <shachaf> `rm bin/boo 07:09:42 <HackEgo> No output. 07:20:58 <shachaf> Jafet++ 07:21:10 <zzo38> `learn Zork is like York, except for the first letter. 07:21:14 <HackEgo> Learned 'zork': Zork is like York, except for the first letter. 07:21:17 <zzo38> `? pokemon card 07:21:18 <HackEgo> pokemon card? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 07:21:20 <shachaf> I didn't notice "bad-tempered" the first time. 07:24:12 <zzo38> Can you please tell me what to move all of my issue-tracking wiki into? I asked everyone else already (including the service I currently use) and they don't know. Is it really necessary to program it by myself? 07:24:35 <shachaf> What's wrong with the current issue-tracking wiki? 07:24:59 <zzo38> It will be discontinued soon and is no longer supported. 07:25:08 <shachaf> What is it? 07:25:13 <zzo38> See the "Important Note" on https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/amigamml 07:25:32 <zzo38> That's what they told me when I asked them a question. 07:26:17 <zzo38> They said they can make "one or two redirects", but not who it is redirected to. 07:26:30 <shachaf> What features do you need? 07:27:10 <zzo38> Just the issue tracker and wiki and files (preferably with issue and file version numbers), really. Preferably also support command-line access, as well as web-page 07:28:02 <shachaf> Some people I know use GitHub for issue tracking and wiki and files. 07:28:06 <zzo38> And I would prefer the mob-writable-wiki rather than only some people are allowed (pages can be locked if needed; Redmine supports locking pages too but doesn't give other people access to write anyways so it isn't so useful) 07:29:13 <zzo38> GitHub seem to render slowly, and I would prefer if the server won't add extra header/footer/margins (even Redmine does it though, and I don't want it to) 07:30:01 <zzo38> I can do without the news and forums if anyone can write on wiki, since then other people can post message on wiki. 07:32:44 <zzo38> That is more precisely what I would be looking for 07:41:14 <zzo38> Maybe I have to write my own program possibly 07:49:14 -!- qwertyo has joined. 07:56:15 <oerjan> `quote poiuy_qwert 07:56:16 <HackEgo> No output. 07:56:16 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:56:30 <oerjan> `? poiuy_qwert 07:56:30 <HackEgo> poiuy_qwert? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 07:56:43 <oerjan> i quess he was before the time of wisdom 08:00:45 <zzo38> Something I did causes Apache to crash 08:01:05 <zzo38> When I put a AuthDigestFile command inside of a <Files> block 08:07:08 <izabera> is there any algorithm to factor polynomials over non commutative rings? 08:09:10 -!- nszceta has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:12:38 -!- zadock has joined. 08:13:07 * oerjan recalls all the algebraists at the university talking about gröbner bases. he wasn't one of them though. 08:22:03 <zzo38> Well, I managed to avoid my probme by using groups instead. 08:27:38 -!- qwertyo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:33:55 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:48:01 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:48:20 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 08:53:13 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:53:52 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 09:00:47 <mroman_> zzo38: what's up with you and RDF? 09:03:14 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 09:04:53 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:07:24 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 09:12:28 <zzo38> Well, I wrote a RDF parser, a pretty small one but that also can be used with SQLite. 09:17:22 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:17:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:20:08 -!- Vorpal has joined. 09:22:09 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 09:23:27 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 09:37:29 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:37:50 -!- Vorpal has joined. 09:41:48 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 09:41:56 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 09:42:52 <zzo38> In Windows if you assign a drive letter for \Device\NamedPipe you can list the files in that directory but you cannot select that drive as the current drive. 10:00:58 -!- Wright_ has joined. 10:00:59 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:02:06 -!- evalj has joined. 10:04:50 -!- llue has joined. 10:06:38 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 10:08:49 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:10:14 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Client Quit). 10:27:59 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:28:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:54:52 -!- SopaXT has joined. 12:24:19 -!- SopaXT has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:42:41 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 12:42:56 -!- idris-bot has joined. 13:02:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:07:06 <ais523> hmm, I'm reading an article which defines a computer as alternating between an add/subtract instruction and a goto-if-zero 13:07:17 <ais523> I think it was just meant as an illustrative example, but that's TC by itself, isn't it? 13:07:31 <ais523> assuming bignums, at least 13:07:46 -!- Deewiant has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:09:00 -!- Deewiant has joined. 13:09:21 <b_jonas> ais523: um, if it's alternating between add/subtract instruction, how does the goto-if-zero come into it? 13:09:34 <b_jonas> ais523: also, can it either address indirectly or write into instruction space? 13:09:57 <ais523> no, it alternates between (either an add or subtract instruction) and (a goto-if-zero) 13:10:04 <b_jonas> ais523: ah! 13:10:05 <ais523> there was no implication that the instruction space was writable 13:10:08 <ais523> I think it's TC anyway though 13:10:15 <b_jonas> ais523: there are something similar, though they use only subtract 13:10:16 <ais523> minsky machine, most likely 13:10:35 <b_jonas> ais523: and they use fixed size integers and writing to instruction space or other methods of indirection 13:11:17 <b_jonas> I prefer goto-if-negative, it's better, because goto-if-zero gives you the brainfuck-like thing where you have to subtract one repeatedly to tell how large a number is 13:11:29 <ais523> b_jonas: the wireworld computer has only mov, and things like arithmetic are memory-mapped 13:11:36 <b_jonas> sure sure 13:11:39 <b_jonas> it's not really a problem 13:11:47 <b_jonas> I just prefer to have slightly more potent arithmetic than others 13:12:16 <b_jonas> but you want one that can't indirect-address, so any program can access only fixed size memory, right? 13:12:19 <b_jonas> and you want to use bignums? 13:13:07 <ais523> well, my reasoning was 13:13:23 <ais523> if you don't have indirect addressing, you need bignums to get infinite storage 13:13:40 <ais523> if you have indirect addressing, you /still/ need bignums to get infinite storage (because otherwise the amount of memory you can use is limited by the range of an int) 13:13:50 <ais523> so it doesn't really matter whether you can indirect-address or not for TCness purposes 13:13:53 <b_jonas> I think if you have only fixed addressing AND only equal compare, then I think it's still turing-complete but you have a mandatory exponential slowdown 13:14:15 <ais523> b_jonas: hmm, we should really formalize this mandatory slowdown thing 13:14:28 <ais523> I think it's only a mandatory O(n) slowdown, but am having problems defining what n is 13:14:46 <ais523> but mandatory TCness slowdown is something I've been thinking of ever since I designed Thutu 13:14:58 <ais523> (which feels O(n) slower than other languages, even though it possibly isn't) 13:15:14 <b_jonas> no way 13:16:06 <Melvar> Isn’t such a slowdown defined as the one simulating the other requiring that function of the other’s number of steps? 13:16:24 <b_jonas> Ok, but first, you do understand why it's likely TC (you haven't defined it completely, but with some sane definition) because of reudction to counter machines that can only add 1 or subtract 1, right? 13:16:59 <ais523> Melvar: that's more reminiscent o eigenratios 13:17:00 <b_jonas> I think we can prove the exponential slowdown too, though of course only for concrete definition (or set of definitions) of the machine. 13:17:02 <ais523> b_jonas: right, yes, that's the construction I was planning 13:17:21 <ais523> Melvar: the difference being that interpreting language A in language B is different from compiling language A to language B 13:17:24 <b_jonas> I don't think the details matter too much for it actually, but you only get a formal proof that way 13:17:30 <ais523> (most obviously, you can see this when A and B are the same language) 13:17:53 <b_jonas> ais523: you mentioned infinite storage needs bignums, which is correct, and it's the key 13:18:08 <b_jonas> ais523: you can store infinite storage only in a bignum or set of bignums 13:18:18 <ais523> b_jonas: or stack or other similar recursive data structure 13:18:30 <ais523> but that doesn't work as well with these primitives 13:19:13 <Melvar> ais523: The only thing I was really thinking about was the exponential step blowup when simulating an NTM with a DTM. 13:19:33 <Melvar> Sorry for intruding when tired. .ω. 13:19:35 <b_jonas> the problem is, to retrieve the information from a single bignum that can have O(alpha) possible values, you need to run O(alpha) operations 13:19:51 <ais523> Melvar: oh right, I'll buy that 13:20:00 <b_jonas> it's a bit faster if you have more bignums, say C bignums, because then you can use O(alpha**(1/C)) operations 13:20:03 <ais523> (assuming P≠NP, at least; if they're equal it becomes rather more interesting) 13:20:14 <b_jonas> s/O(alpha)/Omega(alpha)/ 13:21:17 <b_jonas> ais523: if you want to store n bits, and your program has access to C registers (memory slots whatever), you need at least some of them to store O(2**(n/C)) different values, or a bit less if you count the states of the program too but that's only constant too 13:21:44 <b_jonas> ais523: so while this isn't a formal proof, I think it shows why you need exponential slowdown to simulate random access 13:22:04 <b_jonas> it's only single-exponential, mind you 13:22:37 <ais523> b_jonas: I guess the difference is that I don't consider random access as a default 13:23:12 <b_jonas> ais523: same thing, there's only O(n**2*log(n)) or so difference between turing machine and random access 13:23:20 <b_jonas> you know that 13:23:45 <b_jonas> so if you could simulate a turing machine, you could simulate a ram machine with a turing machine 13:23:59 <b_jonas> this applies for one-tape turing machine or boolfuck or whatever too 13:24:21 <b_jonas> but yes, it's no formal proof 13:24:35 <b_jonas> I think it would be possible to formalize it not too hard 13:25:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:25:48 <ais523> b_jonas: you need to prove that at least one program actually /benefits/ from random access memory 13:26:01 <b_jonas> ais523: this is why people like the class P so much: it is a robust class that doesn't change if you use wildly different computation models 13:26:30 <b_jonas> ais523: no, you only need to prove that at least one program benefits from having exponential time as opposed to polynomial 13:27:19 <ais523> b_jonas: I mean, suppose that for all algorithms that use unlimited RAM, there's a way to rewrite that algorithm to use bounded RAM 13:27:23 <ais523> now your proof breaks down 13:27:29 <b_jonas> ais523: and, for the proof, that at least one program benefits from having a bit storage 13:27:29 <ais523> I seriously doubt that's the case but you do need to prove it isnt the case 13:27:32 <b_jonas> a big storage 13:27:36 <ais523> right, yes 13:28:24 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:29:39 <b_jonas> I think that's actually not very hard to prove, but I'm not sure, I'm not a computational complexity expert 13:30:11 <b_jonas> for this, you only need to prove that some program needs big storage as opposed to _logarithmic_ storage 13:30:29 <ais523> that's a stronger statement, thus harder to prove 13:30:40 <b_jonas> yep 13:30:40 <ais523> than big as opposed to finite 13:31:05 <b_jonas> but still easier than to prove polynomial storage versus exponential, or polynomial storage versus linear 13:31:24 <b_jonas> those I think are difficult and one of them might be unsolved 13:31:31 <b_jonas> maybe both, I dunno 14:05:33 -!- spiette has joined. 14:08:15 -!- Wright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:13:26 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:16:27 -!- Welo has joined. 14:17:15 <myndzi> hah wow, people are still improving bf joust :P 14:17:30 <myndzi> i was wondering if the full site/code to run a hill are available somewhere, either the old or new ones? 14:19:04 <ais523> myndzi: just me recently, because I saw there had been no new programs in 2015 14:19:12 <ais523> I'd be happy if you came back to active competition, though 14:19:15 <ais523> *no new hill-topping 14:19:45 <myndzi> haha i don't think i can hang ;) i was mostly interested in simpler programs, not writing the kind of monster generated-code beasts you write 14:20:16 <myndzi> i was considering setting up something for our programming department, a private hill, where people could explore the game from the "noob on up" perspective 14:20:20 <ais523> hey, they're not all generated-code 14:20:30 <ais523> sometimes I write monster programs by hand! 14:20:32 <myndzi> instead of having to jump into a mature hill 14:20:35 <ais523> and, well, monolith fits on one line of IRC 14:20:36 <myndzi> hehe :) 14:21:20 <myndzi> anyway, it seems clear that the age of single purpose interesting tactics is somewhat over 14:21:29 <ais523> myndzi: I disagree 14:21:48 <ais523> margins is like nothing else I've seen, and I'm trying to improve it locally before putting an improved version on the hill 14:22:01 <ais523> growth2, the current hilltopper, is pretty single-minded and unlike most other programs 14:22:09 <myndzi> mm, i had just glanced over the wiki but i didn't see that one 14:22:22 <myndzi> presumably there's simply no writeup yet 14:23:03 <myndzi> ahhh haha slowrush is finally gone ;) 14:23:08 <myndzi> i wonder how long it lasted 14:23:15 <myndzi> that shit was around forever 14:23:22 <ais523> myndzi: there should be a writeup at the bototm 14:23:37 <ais523> myndzi: here: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies#2015 14:23:54 <myndzi> i meant margins 14:23:57 <myndzi> i did see growth 14:24:08 <myndzi> i was more curious about the 'like nothing i've seen' comment :) 14:24:25 <ais523> oh, margins has never topped the hill 14:24:36 <myndzi> i suppose we're using the optimized interpreter now where it doesn't require expansion in memory 14:24:42 <ais523> and with many hill algorithms, could beat every single program and get nowhere near topping the hill 14:24:47 <myndzi> so writing zany huge repeated loop stuff is not as impossible 14:24:50 <ais523> err, wow you've been gone a while 14:24:55 <myndzi> naw 14:24:56 <ais523> there are tons of interpreters that work like taht now 14:25:06 <ais523> fizzie's *lance series, Gregor's egojoust, my juiced 14:25:07 <myndzi> i remember the discussion 14:25:22 <myndzi> i'm pretty sure the lance thing was the one i was explaining how to pull it off with or something like that 14:25:32 <myndzi> i just mean, using something like that changes what's possible on the hill 14:25:37 <myndzi> and it's had time to sink in 14:25:43 <ais523> you get tons of nested % in programs nowadays 14:25:45 <myndzi> looking at the willy nilly use of *100000 14:25:51 <ais523> * has been optimized for years 14:25:56 <myndzi> hehe 14:27:26 -!- kline has changed nick to ayylmao. 14:28:13 <ais523> well, % has been optimized for years too, but * for much longer 14:28:26 * myndzi nods 14:28:42 <myndzi> i think i was still participating when lance was written and i seem to remember it going into the hill 14:28:46 <ais523> some of my programs have even started using the "inside {} matches outside % rule" that was recently agreed on but I'm not sure how widely implemented it is yet 14:29:14 <myndzi> hm? what's that mean 14:29:24 <ais523> myndzi: oh, if you want a hill impl, read this: http://zem.fi/bfjoust/internals/ 14:29:36 <nortti> `? grue 14:29:37 <HackEgo> grue? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:30:01 <nortti> `learn grue is the colour of the trees and the ocean 14:30:04 <HackEgo> Learned 'grue': grue is the colour of the trees and the ocean 14:30:48 <ais523> but I mean that (a(b{c{d}e}f)%2g)%2 expands to (abbc{d}effg)%2 and then to abbcabbcdeffgeffg 14:31:02 <ais523> that wasn't really formalized beforehand, but it's the only consistent way to interpret input that looks like that 14:31:33 <myndzi> ah, right 14:32:24 <myndzi> funny i'd probably have chosen the reverse 14:32:35 <myndzi> though i haven't considered whether that's easier or not to interpret 14:32:41 <ais523> try to expand that using the reverse, and you'll see why we didn't 14:32:49 <myndzi> i can well imagine 14:34:30 <myndzi> it always kind of hurts my brain to try and interpret that syntax anyway, it's a little painful 14:34:31 <myndzi> :P 14:34:49 <myndzi> i think the only time i understood it well was when discussing the original optimization to that business 14:36:54 <b_jonas> ais523: sure, if you expand it reverse, there'll be two non-nested inner braces 14:37:14 <b_jonas> ais523: but what happens to input like (a(b{c}d{e}f)%2g)%s ? 14:37:16 <b_jonas> um 14:37:22 <b_jonas> (a(b{c}d{e}f)%2g)%2 14:37:27 <ais523> b_jonas: that isn't currently legal 14:37:35 <ais523> no idea what the interps do 14:37:40 <b_jonas> ok 14:38:17 <myndzi> haha yeah, that looks broken as fuck ;) 14:38:36 <myndzi> i'm surprised there's a web interface to test programs but not submit them 14:38:58 <myndzi> i guess it's nice to keep people "community involved" on irc but the pastebin workaround is extra work :P 14:41:45 <ais523> I think the intention was very much to to have everything go through IRC 14:41:54 <ais523> and besides, it helps stop spambots taking over the hill 14:42:03 <ais523> that said, zemhill wasn't working last time we checked 14:42:10 <ais523> (the IRC bot, that is) 14:42:17 <ais523> so the currently active hill is egojoust 14:42:23 <ais523> it sort-of goes back and forth depending on which is functioning 14:42:39 <ais523> (it's just that I found zemhill's source link first, which is what you wanted) 14:43:24 <myndzi> lol i see 14:43:37 <myndzi> are spambots capable of writing programs good enough to run it? :P 14:43:40 <myndzi> win it* 14:44:08 <myndzi> anyway yeah, the interpreter is a start, i was hoping maybe the actual site code one of the hills was open source on github basically 14:44:12 <myndzi> plug and play like 14:45:44 <ais523> myndzi: probably not but they take up a bunch of CPU cycles 14:45:49 <ais523> also I thought that link /was/ the entire hill, but I didn't look at it 14:45:56 <ais523> I can give you interp source if you like 14:46:33 <ais523> myndzi: yes, the link seems to be the whole hill software (see the zhill/ subdirectory) 14:46:34 <myndzi> ah no worries 14:46:44 <myndzi> i haven't dug through it entirely yet, i checked the readme and it was all about the interpreters 14:46:45 <myndzi> cool :D 14:46:54 <myndzi> work is tugging at my attention too, see :P 14:50:25 <shachaf> `olist 990 14:50:26 <HackEgo> olist 990: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 15:23:01 -!- nszceta has joined. 15:23:40 -!- nszceta has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 15:27:21 -!- atphalix has joined. 15:48:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: time to go home). 15:55:01 -!- atphalix has left. 16:06:21 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 16:09:26 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 16:11:40 -!- Herbalist has joined. 16:11:41 -!- Herbalist has quit (Changing host). 16:11:41 -!- Herbalist has joined. 16:38:45 -!- Welo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:39:34 -!- lleu has joined. 16:50:50 -!- atrapado has joined. 16:58:32 -!- PIERO47 has joined. 17:00:05 -!- PIERO47 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:11:35 -!- Welo has joined. 17:35:27 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 17:45:03 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:45:21 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 17:46:09 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:03:32 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 18:28:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:59:05 -!- nys has joined. 19:00:39 -!- ayylmao has changed nick to kline. 19:05:25 -!- lemurian has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 20:05:56 -!- J_Arcane has quit (*.net *.split). 20:05:56 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 20:05:56 -!- gde33 has quit (*.net *.split). 20:05:56 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 20:05:56 -!- paul2520 has quit (*.net *.split). 20:05:56 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 20:05:56 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 20:06:06 -!- paul2520 has joined. 20:06:15 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 20:06:50 -!- aloril has joined. 20:07:04 -!- gde33 has joined. 20:07:04 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 20:07:21 -!- quintopia has joined. 20:08:31 -!- olsner has joined. 20:13:32 -!- lemurian has joined. 20:32:32 <oren> Only wimps use tape backup: real men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;) -- Linus Torvalds. Only fools rely on things staying where they're put on the internet; take a copy for yourself before it disappears. -- Oren Watson 20:33:20 <oren> Seriously, the guy who was uploading all my favorite music on youtube just deleted everything... 20:34:01 <oren> My policy of downloading anything I like has paid off 20:40:19 <zzo38> I have done too downloading backup of some things 20:40:35 <zzo38> And I hoped that other people can make backup off of me too 20:40:57 <zzo38> (But I might also backup on DVD if I have such thing; currently I have no way to do so) 20:43:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:46:59 -!- lemurian has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 20:51:58 <oren> A common idiom in many prorams I've written seems to be: loop over some sequence, and end the loop by branching to one of two control paths. 20:52:59 <oren> I don't see any reasonable way to write such idiom without using either a goto, an exception, or a temprary bool. 20:54:43 <oren> But it would be easy to write such idiom in terms of coroutines! 20:56:55 <Melvar> Two control paths? 20:58:26 <oren> yeah. Like, one example is suppose you're searching a list for somthing. the two control paths are 'thing found' and 'thing not found' 20:58:45 <oren> but the same idiom seems to crop up a lot 21:07:09 <oren> like I think what I want is a while-if-else statement 21:11:01 <int-e> python has a for-else construct, https://docs.python.org/2/reference/compound_stmts.html#the-for-statement 21:12:54 <oren> Oh hell yes that's pretty much exactly what I want 21:56:38 <oren> How do I check that a number has only one bit on? 21:57:32 <zzo38> (x && !(x&(x-1))) in a C code is check that exactly one bit is set 21:57:40 <oren> Great 21:58:43 <oren> yeah that works, thank you 22:08:21 <int-e> with unsigned types and only one comparison: x-1 < (x & -x) 22:09:02 <oren> is -x valid on an unsigned? 22:09:24 <oren> hopefull 22:10:53 <oren> I have too many useless warnings already flooding every compile 22:10:57 <int-e> sure, unsigned types operate modulo 2^<bits> 22:11:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:13:07 <oren> ちわっすりゃん 22:13:25 -!- Wright has joined. 22:14:43 <oren> btw, where would you look to find a dialup modem? 22:15:09 <int-e> 20 years ago 22:16:14 <int-e> amazingly, ebay "modem baud" seems to turn up results. 22:16:26 <pikhq> oren: Amazon, Newegg, etc. 22:16:32 <pikhq> They still make 'em. 22:16:33 <oren> I want to get a bettwr connection directly from this computer to my other one, without going over the LAN. 22:17:07 <Phantom_Hoover> O.o 22:17:09 <zzo38> If it is next to each other then use a null modem cable? 22:17:26 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 22:17:32 <oren> the LAN is wireless and this house is crap 22:17:35 <pikhq> Yeah, a point-to-point link like that just use a null modem cable or even an ethernet cord. 22:17:36 <oerjan> int-e: so does ebay "cuneiform tablet" hth 22:18:06 <int-e> oerjan: that didn't help 22:18:43 <oerjan> didn't think it would hth 22:19:02 <oren> someone should invent a digital storage method for stone tablets 22:19:03 <int-e> oerjan: I hate you so much 22:19:20 <oren> E.g. a weather- resistant one 22:19:47 <int-e> hthnth -- hate the hater, not the hate. 22:20:00 * oerjan sidles away 22:20:44 <oren> wait cuneiform is clay tablets, not stone 22:23:36 <oerjan> very durable 22:36:52 -!- nszceta has joined. 22:40:58 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:51:49 -!- variable has joined. 22:52:48 -!- boily has joined. 22:53:19 <oerjan> helloxandre 22:53:47 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:56:52 <boily> euh... 22:56:57 <boily> eeeeeh... 22:57:04 <boily> what was your family name again? 22:57:11 <oerjan> johansen hth 22:57:18 <boily> ih. 22:57:24 <boily> johellonsen! 22:57:28 <oerjan> (also: see whois) 22:57:33 <boily> (too logical hth) 22:57:36 <boily> @massages-loud 22:57:36 <lambdabot> shachaf said 19h 32m 36s ago: culprits lists the lists the? tdnh 22:57:59 <oerjan> wat 22:58:34 <int-e> `culprits ../bin/culprits 22:58:44 <HackEgo> abort: ../bin/culprits not under root 22:58:46 <boily> shellochaf. wat? 23:01:00 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:01:19 <oerjan> let's just assume it was a freak interdimensional glitch from a parallel earth with weird grammar 23:02:18 <oerjan> i guess the glitch meeting means it isn't quite parallel. 23:02:27 <boily> I think the Spirit of Fungot leaked. it happens disturbingly often with shachaf hth 23:02:32 <oerjan> ah. 23:03:03 <boily> everything's parallel to everything. especially seven red lines. 23:03:38 <boily> by the way, fungot doesn't answer His Capitalised Name anymore? 23:03:38 <fungot> boily: slib also pretends to provide macro systems that boast hygiene." would have been 23:03:56 <boily> fungot: ah. unhigienic macros. I should've guessed by myself. 23:03:56 <fungot> boily: i'm installing compilers on university accounts too! 23:04:06 <boily> fungot: dun dun dun! way to go! 23:04:06 <fungot> boily: fnord/ fnord/ fnord): 23:04:15 <boily> fungot: fnord fnord fnord fnord :) ♪ 23:04:15 <fungot> boily: got it. use it. you can come up with a zero-knowledge proof of correctness for your interpreter. maybe i can 23:04:49 <oerjan> boily: he never did 23:06:29 <boily> oerjan: he never did? 23:06:40 <oerjan> he never did! 23:06:52 * boily doubts his sanity. 23:07:07 <oerjan> finally 23:07:49 <olsner> oh, did you ever not doubt it? o.O 23:08:31 <olsner> fwiw, I think if you think you're insane you're probably sane 23:08:49 <int-e> Catch 22 23:08:53 <boily> I AM SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANE! 23:08:55 <boily> (tsé) 23:09:17 <boily> hellolsner. int-ello. 23:09:25 <oerjan> olsner: i doubt that hth 23:09:31 <olsner> hebboily 23:09:41 -!- nszceta has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:10:06 <olsner> oerjan: you doubt that I think that if he thinks that I'll think it? 23:10:22 <oerjan> er.......................... 23:10:36 <olsner> hm, that's not what I said 23:10:38 * oerjan doubts olsner's sanity, just in case 23:10:54 <olsner> *you doubt that I think if he thinks that he probably is? 23:11:14 <oerjan> i'm sorry i think my brain has a stack overflow 23:11:56 * boily pats oerjan. “don't worry, everything'll be fine.” 23:12:08 <zzo38> Once someone told me he was going to change his name to Justin Sane, it was already Sane but not Justin 23:12:10 -!- lemurian has joined. 23:12:16 <olsner> well, it's if you don't worry that you really should 23:12:57 <boily> oerjan: listen to that, it'll soothe your mental stack → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpREizsftU 23:15:48 <oerjan> boily: gaph fnord gibble ip sneferu spiong 23:16:14 <boily> welp. oerjan broke. 23:17:47 -!- nszceta has joined. 23:18:23 <boily> `relcome nszceta 23:18:24 <HackEgo> ​nszceta: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 23:21:17 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 23:21:47 <shachaf> `? culprits 23:21:47 <HackEgo> ​`culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY 23:21:57 <shachaf> boilt: hth 23:22:03 <shachaf> oily 23:22:06 <shachaf> boily 23:22:51 <oerjan> ah it all makes sense now! 23:23:18 <oerjan> except that it also works on other files 23:23:24 <oerjan> `culprits canary 23:23:28 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan ais523 oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan ais523 ais523 ais523 shachaf int-e oerjan elliott elliott elliott elliott elliott elliott elliott ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull c00kiemon5ter Phantom_Hoover elliott oerjan shachaf elliott ais523 elliott ais523 nitia 23:23:35 <oerjan> who is this nitia 23:23:59 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 23:24:02 <oerjan> `culprits bin/list 23:24:03 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott oerjan Phantom__Hoover elliott Sgeo Phantom_Hoover tswett elliott elliott tswett tswett elliott tswett boily boily metasepia tswett Ngevd oerjan elliott oerjan elliott Sgeo oklopol nortti elliott shachaf elliott Phantom_Hoover monqy Phantom_Hoover Phantom_Hoover shachaf Phantom_Hoover monqy elliot 23:24:36 -!- nszceta has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 23:25:06 <boily> oerjan: I asked the same yesterday. who's nitia. 23:25:12 <Phantom_Hoover> `list 23:25:12 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:25:13 <boily> `whois nitia 23:25:13 <HackEgo> grep: /var/irclogs/_esoteric/201[3-9]-??-??.txt: No such file or directory 23:25:13 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: whois: not found 23:25:18 <Phantom_Hoover> :o 23:25:22 <Phantom_Hoover> we've lost a treasure 23:25:29 <boily> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! 23:25:36 <boily> the `list is no more! 23:25:42 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: what? 23:26:00 <oerjan> well duh 23:26:22 <oerjan> it stopped working when HackEgo stopped sharing server with glogbot 23:27:45 <oerjan> instead, we now have wiki announcements. 23:27:45 <Phantom_Hoover> ;_; 23:30:33 <oerjan> sic transit gloria hackmea 23:31:36 <tswett> FUNGOT! 23:31:46 <tswett> Continue. 23:52:27 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <b_jonas> (a(b{c}d{e}f)%2g)%2 <-- i think there _is_ an obvious interpretation of that, but unlike the accepted cases it requires a significant memory overhead (e.g. a deeply nested stack) to implement 23:52:27 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 23:53:43 <oerjan> @tell ais523 i.e. you need to remember at each nesting level whether you're in a {c} branch or an {e} branch 23:53:43 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 23:55:44 <oerjan> @tell ais523 oh wait hm. that case really _is_ ambiguous. 23:55:44 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 23:56:18 <boily> no hambiguity here. 23:56:45 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 23:57:29 <oerjan> @tell ais523 For what i'm thinking of, you can have more than one {} per % but you still need to respect matching by nesting level. 23:57:29 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 23:57:35 <zzo38> How do I find a proxy that let me to connect to HTTPS servers over HTTP instead? 23:59:02 <boily> zzo38: such a thing exists? doesn't it defeat the whole purpose of httpsing your connection? 2015-06-13: 00:00:14 <zzo38> I don't know but I want such a thing. 00:02:06 <zzo38> Some servers always redirect to HTTPS and I don't want it to do that 00:02:23 <oerjan> he's trying to generate free energy by making security experts rotate in their graves. 00:02:49 <zzo38> No I am not 00:03:10 <oerjan> well that's the sanest possible use case hth 00:03:34 <zzo38> I don't want to generate free energy 00:06:15 <oerjan> by not using https whenever possible you are betraying humanity to the NSA tdnh 00:06:52 * oerjan whistles innocently 00:09:08 <zzo38> I don't care why can't you provide such a server? 00:10:03 * oerjan reports zzo38 to the NSA for not using proper encryption against the terrorists. oh wait... 00:11:18 <boily> aren't you both not living at all in the USA? 00:11:39 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, what reason do you have to actively avoid https? 00:11:48 <oerjan> are you saying i should use INTERPOL or something 00:12:30 <zzo38> HTTPS is causing problems, and some programs don't support it 00:13:10 <oerjan> report those programs to the NSA hth 00:13:52 <zzo38> Software exists to do this with POP3 but not HTTP, and also it isn't a public server 00:14:19 <zzo38> Don't you know NSA can crack HTTPS anyways? 00:14:34 <oerjan> *GASP* 00:15:32 * oerjan changes all his software to use 1048576 bit keys. that should teach them! 00:16:31 <zzo38> Yes, that should do it (hopefully) 00:16:45 <boily> oerjan: I possess the best remedy against NSA. 00:17:11 * boily uses a fountain pen and real mulched laminated dead tree sheets! 00:19:03 <oerjan> fiendish 00:19:16 <oerjan> are you sure that pen isn't bugged hth 00:19:37 <boily> it's a demonstrator. clear plastic for easy inspection! 00:20:13 <Phantom_Hoover> what if the wires are made of transparent aluminium 00:21:20 <boily> http://www.twsbi.com/collections/fountain-pens/products/twsbi-diamond-580al-orange-fountain-pen 00:21:31 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: the aluminium on this pen isn't transparent! 00:21:45 <Phantom_Hoover> the aluminium that you can see 00:21:59 <boily> seen aluminium is best aluminium. 00:28:14 <boily> the statistically least bugged pen I own is my Airmail 58SL, for having disassembled it completely many times. 00:31:22 -!- hjulle has joined. 00:32:02 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: do you fountain pen? 00:32:15 <Phantom_Hoover> yes 00:32:57 <boily> oh :) 00:33:16 <boily> what do you use? 00:38:15 <Phantom_Hoover> sheaffer somethingorother 00:39:47 <boily> I think I have one somewhere, maybe at my parents'. 00:40:12 <boily> big blue translucent thing, with a nice rubber grip. 00:44:13 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:59:35 -!- mitchs_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:02:55 <Phantom_Hoover> boily, mine is not like that 01:04:00 <boily> ah? metal, plastic, wood, glass? size? colour? grip? texture? cartridges, plunger, siphon, eyedrop? 01:04:17 <Phantom_Hoover> metal body, plastic grip 01:04:45 <boily> body weigh? 01:04:52 <Phantom_Hoover> i honestly have no idea 01:05:19 * boily wonders if he should add Phantom_Hoover's pen to the The File... 01:05:34 <Phantom_Hoover> http://img6a.flixcart.com//image/pen/h/e/g/sheaffer-342-fp-400x400-imad72dcguqcyhbh.jpeg this shape 01:05:41 <Phantom_Hoover> though different colours 01:06:04 <boily> oh, nice! 01:11:01 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:17:58 -!- boily has quit (Quit: VERMILLION CHICKEN). 01:19:39 -!- mitchs has joined. 01:30:23 -!- erdic has joined. 01:41:22 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 01:44:16 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:58:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:59:15 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:05:00 <zzo38> Can a length of a string literal be figure out in compile-time in a C code? 02:09:44 <zzo38> Actually, using sizeof works if you put -1 afterward I figured out now 02:22:15 -!- Herbalist has joined. 02:37:43 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:38:09 -!- TieSoul has joined. 02:40:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:40:38 -!- TieSoul_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:41:49 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:53:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:54:40 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:57:25 -!- variable has joined. 03:09:46 <FreeFull> zzo38: sizeof includes the \0 03:14:53 * oerjan assumes that's what the -1 was for 03:28:57 <oren> hmm. this chinese game boy game claims to be final fantasy IV, but I see no resemblance 03:31:28 <oren> plus the start screen has Cloud on it 03:32:01 <FreeFull> oren: Cool, a bootleg version 03:32:15 <FreeFull> How does it play? 03:32:38 <oren> The graphics are good and the battle system resembles FF1 03:33:03 <oren> Although I don't read Chinese 03:34:59 <FreeFull> I see 03:35:21 <oren> The start screen reads: 太空戦士IV 03:36:54 <oren> Which, means Space Soldier IV 03:37:47 <oren> Which explains why the story appears to involve starships 03:39:50 <oren> I love the fact that the chinese call space "Great Void" 03:40:02 <oren> the english word fro space sucks 03:45:51 <oren> some of these unlicensed chinese games are amazing. The one I've played the most is "Thunder Warrior: The Legend of Pikachu" on the NES, which is an apparent port of pokemon yellow 03:48:56 <oren> whoops that should be "thunder emperor" 03:52:02 <oren> well I guess it can't technically be a port, since they didn 03:52:14 <oren> t have the source code. a "remake" 04:03:20 <oren> seriously? this game has nothing whatsoever to do with final fantasy 4 05:11:42 -!- b_jonas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:39:12 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:48:17 <zzo38> I have changed the RDF of the tropes of the level20.tex to now say <Zig-Zagging_Trope> <Footnote_Fever> instead of <Played_Straight> <Footnote_Fever>; apparently, that is what it is if one of the footnotes is referenced inside of a paper that is inside of the story rather than being the book that contains the story? 05:49:36 <zzo38> But I am pretty sure that <Played_Straight> <Evil_Chancellor> is correct. 05:53:48 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:12:33 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:18:25 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:10:51 -!- Herbalist has joined. 07:56:54 -!- Elronnd has joined. 08:27:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gulf]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43205&oldid=43170 * 160.85.232.100 * (+8) /* Examples */ 08:31:43 <mroman_> The BSD license is public-domain 08:31:53 <mroman_> Does this mean I can modify the BSD license text and use it? 08:36:06 <oren> I assume so 08:36:44 <oren> public domain means everyone has all the rights -- i think 08:37:30 <zzo38> I think so 08:42:39 * Taneb hello 08:42:47 <Taneb> Have any of you seen the TIS-100 game? 08:45:40 <mroman_> K. My fancy looking Gulf website looks quite nice for now 08:54:28 -!- Welo has joined. 09:11:41 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:12:01 -!- Herbalist has joined. 09:12:34 -!- Herbalist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:14:32 -!- mroman_ has changed nick to peer. 09:14:49 <peer> All your connection are belong to me and I can reset them any time I want to. 09:15:01 -!- peer has changed nick to Guest13639. 09:17:20 -!- Herbalist has joined. 09:20:12 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:21:11 -!- xfix has joined. 09:21:38 <xfix> Hm, I'm thinking about writing a programming language based on http://www.xkcd.com/1537/ 09:23:03 <Taneb> It seems quotes are greedy in that language 09:25:35 <xfix> I'm trying to understand how to implement inconsistent mechanics consistenly. 09:25:48 <Taneb> I think it's mostly consistent, just odd 09:26:22 <xfix> "+2" I believe is because 十 is 10 in Chinese or something. 09:26:28 <Taneb> Not sure what [4] and [9] are doing 09:26:42 <Taneb> xfix, I think it's adding the line number 09:26:49 <olsner> NaN, NaO, NaP 09:27:09 <Taneb> olsner, aaaah 09:27:09 <xfix> That would make sense about adding a line number. 09:27:15 <olsner> couldn't figure out 9 or 14 though 09:27:29 <xfix> I don't understand 14 either. What's the deal with disappearing 2. 09:27:35 <Taneb> [11] is adding 2 to the value of 2, so it writes 4 instead of 2 09:27:45 <Taneb> this is why it's [14] and not [12] 09:27:59 <xfix> Oh, classic Fortran. 09:28:02 <olsner> oh, hah 09:28:09 <xfix> Number two was replaced with 4. 09:28:10 <olsner> that's nice 09:28:17 -!- MoALTz_ has changed nick to MoALTz. 09:28:45 <Taneb> in [6] and [7], is + being "does not have element" 09:28:57 <Taneb> As in [1,2,3] does not have element 4 09:28:58 <Taneb> ? 09:29:12 <xfix> Perhaps it adds to a set? 09:29:13 <olsner> I guess 1,2,3,4 makes a series, 1,2,3,2 doesn't 09:29:21 <xfix> And says whether it succeeded. 09:29:48 <Taneb> olsner, that kiiiind of makes sense 09:29:55 <Taneb> xfix, I think that is equivalent to what I suggested 09:30:07 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:50:13 -!- Herbalist has joined. 09:51:28 -!- boily has joined. 09:55:19 <boily> ohayoerjan~~~ 09:56:50 <Taneb> boily, ... 09:59:05 <boily> Tanelle! :D 09:59:15 <boily> (mouah ah ah ah ah >:D) 09:59:44 <fizzie> Taneb: Someone came here talking about TIS-100 the other day, intending to write an emulator for it. 09:59:59 <fizzie> (And I was going to buy it with the 10% discount, but then I forgot.) 10:00:07 <boily> fizzie: fizziello. do you still maintain the fizziegraphs? 10:00:12 <Taneb> fizzie, I've been enjoying it 10:00:43 <fizzie> boily: Which graphs were these? I do so many graphs. 10:01:44 <boily> the ones where there's a dot when we say something in the chännel. 10:03:47 <fizzie> Oh, right, those. 10:03:56 <fizzie> I think I'v'nt ran them in a while, but I could try. 10:04:27 <fizzie> If I remember how. 10:05:31 <fizzie> updating target 2, days 2014-03-13 ... 2015-06-12 10:05:41 <fizzie> I think I got it right, and I hadn't run it in a year. 10:06:16 <boily> ! 10:09:21 <Guest13639> I'm bored 10:09:25 <Guest13639> any new eso ideas out there? 10:09:26 <fizzie> boily: http://zem.fi/ircvis/esoteric/ should in theory be up to date. Although the list of "very important people" could stand to be updated. 10:10:35 <Guest13639> a language where syntax is locale dependant 10:10:40 <Guest13639> AND region locked. 10:10:57 <Guest13639> see. I can only come up with stupid ideas :( 10:11:06 <boily> Guellost13639! 10:11:12 -!- Guest13639 has changed nick to mroman. 10:11:17 <boily> mrelloman! 10:11:33 <boily> which regions would lock the syntax? 10:11:57 <boily> postal jurisdictions? they'd be restricting integers to stamp values :D 10:12:13 <mroman> double d = 1,2; 10:12:15 <boily> (good luck writing an international hello, world.) 10:12:17 <mroman> double d = 1.2; 10:12:22 <mroman> depending on where you live. 10:12:45 <mroman> stuff like that :) 10:13:24 <mroman> or possibly even type names have to be written in the local language 10:13:27 <mroman> otherwise it won't compile 10:13:57 <nortti> what if the language has no writing system? 10:14:03 <mroman> Funktion Haupt Ist Zeige "Hello, world" Ende 10:14:14 <nortti> broad IPA? 10:14:20 <mroman> hm 10:14:24 <mroman> that could be fun 10:14:43 <mroman> language using IPA signs (but in a correct way of course) 10:15:10 <nortti> even just for english, if you were to support variant pronounciations 10:18:41 <xfix> I also feel like making Whitespace with Unicode, except using more Unicode, and slightly less stack based. 10:18:55 <mroman> It's funny that youtube is becoming a better illegal movie streaming site than the other ones 10:19:05 <mroman> well... illegal depends on which country you live in. 10:19:26 <mroman> swiss laws allow "just watching" of all sorts of movies 10:20:51 <xfix> For example, numbers would be represented by U+200A followed by U+2000 to U+2009. The general idea is that U+2000 to U+2009 are command extensions, and other space characters are used for stuff. 10:21:28 <xfix> So there is no need for any sort of separation between functions. 10:21:51 <xfix> And functions know exactly how many arguments they do take. 10:22:47 <xfix> Additionally, U+200A could be used for code blocks, and code blocks end with U+000A 10:24:10 <xfix> And for that matter, arrays, because multipurpose commands are great when there is no ambiguity. 10:27:18 <xfix> https://gist.github.com/xfix/77b23164c5cdfff876f0 - hm, that looks quite nice, actually... 10:32:39 <oerjan> boiloha<<< 10:33:55 * oerjan isn't sure that unicode whitespace hasn't been done before 10:34:26 <oerjan> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Unispace 10:39:18 * boily sips his coffee. good coffee. "aaaaah ^^" 10:39:24 <int-e> but has it been done with only zero-width whitespace? 10:39:36 <oerjan> ooh 10:41:33 <mroman> hm 10:41:38 <mroman> languages that can only jump back in code 10:41:44 <mroman> can they be made turing complete? 10:42:16 <boily> jump back? 10:42:20 <oerjan> mroman: BCT would seem to qualify 10:42:22 <mroman> like assembly languages without forward jumps 10:42:37 <oerjan> you only have one jump, back to the beginning at the end 10:42:40 <mroman> or in other words: You can't skip instructions but you can jump back 10:43:08 <mroman> there's no trivial if or while loops then 10:43:26 <oerjan> mroman: BCT!!!!!!!! 10:44:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:45:07 <mroman> I was hoping for something more human readable/intuitive :) 10:46:00 <boily> you're in #esöteric. human readability is a side effect. 10:46:01 <oerjan> hm brainfuck with do-while instead of while, is that TC or not 10:46:05 * oerjan cannot remember 10:53:26 -!- hjulle has joined. 10:53:58 <mroman> http://codepad.org/asHG17GK is more or less what I was aiming for 10:54:29 <mroman> but yes, that can be reduced to brainfuck with do-while instead of while 10:55:35 <oerjan> with all those commands, you might be able to simulate skipping instructions with a flag 10:57:13 <mroman> yes 10:57:54 <mroman> by setting src to 1 and use cmp as a flag (either 0 or 1) which determines whether the ADD has any effect or not 10:59:08 <mroman> BTW is there any wiki admin present? 10:59:23 <mroman> I have no idea what e-mail address is registered for my account 10:59:42 <mroman> and sadly I have no idea what I chose as a password :( 11:01:41 <mroman> either that or the forget password mail gets stuck 11:01:47 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MARBLED CHICKEN). 11:03:38 <oerjan> i suspect i'm not privileged enough to see your email address, but i assume fizzie is 11:04:01 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:05:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Jumpback]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43206 * 160.85.232.100 * (+1109) Created page with "'''Jumpback''' is an esoteric programming languages with no forward jumps. == Instructions == <pre> MOV dst, srcCopy src to dst ADD dst, srcAdd src to dst SUB dst, src..." 11:08:52 <oerjan> mroman: i sent you a test email 11:09:09 <oerjan> with Cc: to myself, so we'll see if it's broken in general 11:10:47 <mroman> with cc you should see what my e-mail address is 11:11:02 <oerjan> i don't think so 11:11:07 <mroman> Let's hope it's not clonkturm@gmx.net 11:11:10 <oerjan> it would still be Bcc:ed to you 11:11:29 <oerjan> you'll see mine, of course 11:11:47 <oerjan> not that i've received any Cc: yet... 11:12:47 <oerjan> i don't think senders are supposed to be able to see the address of the recipient unless they respond, anyway. 11:15:08 <oerjan> @tell fizzie mroman is having problems getting password reset email to work, is outgoing email from the wiki server working? 11:15:08 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 11:15:08 <mroman> I haven't received anything so far on the e-mail accounts I know of. 11:15:33 <mroman> (and still have access to) 11:16:42 <oerjan> i haven't received the Cc: either 11:17:12 <oerjan> @tell fizzie I haven't received Cc: on my test mail either. 11:17:12 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 11:17:49 <oerjan> @tell fizzie (BTW he's User:Feuermonster) 11:17:49 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 11:19:46 <mroman> yeah... 11:19:55 <mroman> that nick dates back to me using the internet at age 12 or something :D 11:20:23 <oerjan> we've had younger 11:20:37 <mroman> > 0x13 11:20:38 <lambdabot> 19 11:22:42 <mroman> It's from a multi-player 2D game I used to play 11:23:07 <mroman> http://clonk.de/classics.php?lng=en 11:23:31 <mroman> http://clonk.de/video.php?lng=en&id=cr 11:23:56 <mroman> the trailer is probably more significant 11:24:10 <mroman> (since compared to other game trailers it actually shows ingame footage) 11:27:13 <oerjan> is it one of those red monsters at 0:43 11:27:31 <mroman> Yep. 11:27:56 -!- Lyka has joined. 11:28:25 <Lyka> need a new antivirus: bitdefender vs kaspersy? 11:29:09 <mroman> It's actually a proprietary 2D game engine with lots of "official" contents and thousands of user-made content 11:29:19 <mroman> well.. it was proprietary. It's open source now. 11:31:39 <mroman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq3oK-kaANk for example is Quake for Clonk 11:31:41 <mroman> (more or less) 11:33:44 <mroman> That's why it was so successful 11:37:57 <mroman> but there was always just a small core community of a few dozen people 11:38:07 <mroman> and they have all grown old now :) 11:38:49 <mroman> until Clonk Rage came out, which gained some popularity and the community grew a lot with young kids for a while 11:39:01 <mroman> but young kids today rather play CoD than games like this :) 11:39:22 <mroman> it's mostly dead now. 11:43:33 <mroman> which also applies to the older ones :) 11:43:39 <oerjan> mhm 11:44:54 <Phantom_Hoover> yeah nobody would play a 2d platformer today 11:44:58 <Phantom_Hoover> the genre is effectively dead 11:45:08 <Phantom_Hoover> wait no that's total bullshit it's thriving 11:45:22 <mroman> It's not exactly a platformer :) 11:45:34 <Lyka> which av do you recommend? 11:46:15 <mroman> Theres Open Clonk now 11:46:31 <mroman> which took the Clonk Rage source code and are trying to create something new out of it 11:46:34 <mroman> http://www.openclonk.org/ 11:46:42 <Lyka> does anyone care about my question? 11:47:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Lyka, since i have no idea what 'av' means i can't really answer 11:47:09 <Lyka> anti-virus 11:47:28 * oerjan this time just kept the one that came with windows 11:47:37 -!- nys has joined. 11:48:27 <oerjan> and on my previous laptop i changed _to_ microsoft's av because the one i was using started to get annoyingly nagging 11:48:56 <mroman> http://blog.openclonk.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Raid.png 11:49:03 <mroman> it has made some good progress lately it seems 11:51:14 -!- Lyka has left. 11:53:37 <mroman> hm interesting. 11:54:39 <mroman> but this confirms that "access to guns" doesn't necessarily mean more crime 11:54:45 <mroman> it's just the people that suck :) 11:56:54 <FreeFull> Access to guns means that you get more accidents where you are shitty at gun safety, and your toddler picks up your gun and shoots you 11:57:12 <mroman> Well... not really 11:57:29 <FreeFull> No, seriously, that does happen 11:57:40 <mroman> If you place your gun where a toddler can pick it up you're a fucking moron 11:57:45 <FreeFull> Yep 11:57:52 <FreeFull> For example, it happened to a policeman during a wedding 11:57:56 <mroman> Do you know how many households have guns in switzerland? 11:58:23 <FreeFull> Vast majority? 11:58:33 <mroman> Pretty much 11:58:54 <mroman> "compulsory military service"? 11:59:21 <FreeFull> I imagine less Swiss people are unsafe with a gun though 11:59:26 <mroman> We had three guns at home 11:59:37 <mroman> father's, brother's and the other brother's gun 11:59:42 -!- Welo has changed nick to w43. 12:00:03 <oerjan> i don't think that _quite_ implies everyone having a gun, it certainly didn't in norway back when military service was genuinely compulsory 12:00:03 <mroman> but you're obviously supposed to take certain parts away from the gun 12:00:11 <mroman> and store those in seperate locations 12:00:17 <FreeFull> If anybody ever tries to invade Switzerland, Switzerland will win 12:00:40 <mroman> oerjan: well not everybody 12:00:44 <Phantom_Hoover> that access to firearms alone doesn't mean high gun violence is pretty widely acknowledged 12:00:49 <mroman> just the ones deemed fit for military service 12:01:07 <Phantom_Hoover> since all you need to do to see it is look at the guns per capita and the gun deaths per capita in the usa vs. any other country 12:01:07 <oerjan> mroman: ...my point still applies. 12:01:14 <mroman> of course :) 12:01:32 <FreeFull> I wonder if I'd be able to get through the physical to get into military service 12:01:33 <mroman> everybody deemed fit enough and still in military service 12:01:35 <FreeFull> Not that I want to 12:01:45 <mroman> old people at some point are retired and they have to give the gun back 12:02:37 <mroman> gun crimes are a cultural thing. 12:02:41 <mroman> In my opinion 12:03:03 <mroman> and poverty 12:03:43 <mroman> FreeFull: physical entry exams are usually pretty low demanding actually 12:04:29 <mroman> And I base that on the USMC PFT 12:04:36 <mroman> which requires a mere 3 pull-ups 12:04:48 <mroman> 28min 3mile run 12:04:50 <mroman> and 50 crunches 12:05:50 <mroman> 2.4km is what you should be able to do in 12min 12:05:55 <mroman> and that's not even a good score 12:06:34 <mroman> *2.2k 12:06:47 <mroman> good is around 2.5km 12:07:08 <mroman> how much is 3 miles again? 12:07:10 <mroman> 4.8km? 12:09:48 <mroman> that gives you 6min exhaustion 12:10:28 <FreeFull> mroman: You underestimate how long it's been since I last exercised 12:11:08 <mroman> I haven't done any 12min runs for the last years either 12:11:14 <mroman> so I don't know how I stand there 12:11:44 <mroman> I can do 12 pull-ups. 12:12:08 <mroman> and I've trained that for months now and it doesn't get any better 12:12:20 <mroman> so I assume 12 pull-ups is pretty much my body's natural peek of what it can do 12:12:33 <FreeFull> I don't know how many pullups I can do 12:12:39 <FreeFull> I don't expect it to be good 12:12:46 <mroman> without using a specific diet or extra nutrition/protein shakes and the like 12:13:01 <FreeFull> I'm incredibly lazy 12:13:25 <mroman> FreeFull: Yeah but really all it takes is like 20min of exercise every other day 12:14:34 <mroman> unless you want to run a marathon 12:14:42 <mroman> but to stay "averagely fit" it doesn't take much 12:19:40 <FreeFull> mroman: I don't do 20 min of exercise a day 12:19:57 <FreeFull> My minutes of exercise a day are in the negative numbers 12:26:10 -!- xfix has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 13:04:30 -!- Herbalist has joined. 13:09:01 <nys> i stick with pushdowns 13:15:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:47:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:57:40 -!- ski has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:06:26 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/burlesque/new.html 14:06:40 <mroman> trying to get the webpage back 14:20:18 <mroman> (more good looking than it currently is) 14:31:07 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:31:34 -!- Herbalist has joined. 14:31:54 -!- Herbalist has quit (Changing host). 14:31:54 -!- Herbalist has joined. 14:33:50 <mroman> ok. it's live 14:37:58 <mroman> I took the liberty to state that this is the help channel for burlesque :p 14:38:24 <mroman> not that I'd expect strangers to suddenly appear here 14:50:10 <int-e> heaven forbid, we might have to talk to people we don't already know! 14:51:26 <paul2520> mroman: http://mroman.ch/burlesque/hackmode.txt not found 14:55:49 -!- bb010g has joined. 15:24:12 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 15:32:11 <Taneb> I may have just spent £50 on boxes 15:41:01 -!- variable has joined. 15:44:47 -!- Wright has joined. 16:11:08 -!- w43 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:29:36 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 16:29:36 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:32:51 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:33:05 <Taneb> WHAT IS THE WORD FOR WHEN YOU DON'T HEAR ABOUT SOMETHING THEN HEAR ABOUT IT FROM DIFFERENT SOURCES ALL AT ONCE? 16:34:11 <lemurian> the Phrase "living under a rock" coems to mind 16:34:13 <lemurian> or Coma 16:34:23 <Taneb> No, not like that 16:35:13 <Taneb> It's like "Oh, that's interesting.", then "Yes, Alice told me that the other day." then "Oh, that fact is now on Reddit, huh", etc 16:38:10 <Taneb> I want to call it synchronicity 16:38:49 -!- Elronnd has left. 16:39:18 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 16:41:40 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 16:41:55 -!- lleu has joined. 16:41:55 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 16:41:55 -!- lleu has joined. 16:42:29 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:59:17 -!- quietello has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:12:32 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [). 17:15:35 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:40:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, baader-meinhoff effect 17:41:28 <Taneb> Thank you 18:03:30 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 18:23:58 <oren> At your discretion you may also take the aforementioned code under 18:23:58 <oren> any other license, providing that that license does not impose any 18:23:58 <oren> duties or obligations upon me, Oren Watson. 18:24:14 <oren> ^ does the above sound legal enough 18:25:37 <Taneb> I'd say "Other licenses available by request" to make sure you don't get screwed over 18:26:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:26:19 <oren> Well given that the initial license is CC0 18:27:55 <oren> The main issue is people making a license that imposes upon me a duty of care to debug the code for them 18:29:02 <oren> I'm not sure it's possible for them to do that, but I want to prevent it in case the powers that be decide it is 18:31:13 <oren> Ah fuck it, "Other licenses available upon request" is good enough to stop that too 18:35:55 <int-e> 'Affirmer offers the Work as-is and makes no representations or warranties of any kind concerning the Work [...]' <-- that should cover your worries (but obviously, I'm not a lawyer) 18:36:32 <int-e> (from the CC0 legal text, section 4) 18:39:43 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 18:40:06 <oren> cool 18:41:37 <oren> ` ps -axo comm,lstart | grep irssi 18:41:37 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 18:41:46 <oren> `run ps -axo comm,lstart | grep irssi 18:41:47 <HackEgo> warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? \ See http://gitorious.org/procps/procps/blobs/master/Documentation/FAQ 18:41:54 <oren> `run ps axo comm,lstart | grep irssi 18:41:54 <HackEgo> No output. 18:42:13 <oren> hackego isn't running irssi? 18:42:34 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:43:16 <oren> `run ps axo comm,lstart | grep bash 18:43:17 <HackEgo> bash Sat Jun 13 18:45:05 2015 18:43:49 <oren> oh, look, I reimplemented the date command 18:45:32 <oren> `run ps axo comm,lstart | grep mysqld 18:45:33 <HackEgo> No output. 18:45:56 <oren> `run ps axo comm,lstart | grep apache 18:45:57 <HackEgo> No output. 18:46:01 <oren> wha 18:46:17 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 18:46:32 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:47:22 <oren> `run ps axo comm,lstart 18:47:22 <HackEgo> COMMAND STARTED \ init Sat Jun 13 18:49:11 2015 \ kthreadd Sat Jun 13 18:49:11 2015 \ ksoftirqd/0 Sat Jun 13 18:49:11 2015 \ kworker/0:0 Sat Jun 13 18:49:11 2015 \ kworker/0:0H Sat Jun 13 18:49:11 2015 \ kworker/u2:0 Sat Jun 13 18:49:11 2015 \ khelper Sat Jun 13 18:49:11 2015 \ kdevtm 18:47:44 <oren> `run ps axo comm 18:47:44 <HackEgo> COMMAND \ init \ kthreadd \ ksoftirqd/0 \ kworker/0:0 \ kworker/0:0H \ kworker/u2:0 \ khelper \ kdevtmpfs \ netns \ kworker/u2:1 \ writeback \ bioset \ kblockd \ kworker/0:1 \ kswapd0 \ fsnotify_mark \ deferwq \ init \ init \ init \ sh \ sh \ ps \ cat \ umlbox-mudem 18:48:16 <oren> `run ps axo comm | tail 18:48:17 <HackEgo> init \ init \ init \ sh \ sh \ bash \ cat \ umlbox-mudem \ ps \ tail 18:48:28 <oren> wow that's all? 18:56:13 <Jafet> `` ps -eo start 18:56:14 <HackEgo> ​ STARTED \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 \ 18:58:02 18:56:24 <Jafet> `` ps -eo start 18:56:25 <HackEgo> ​ STARTED \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 \ 18:58:13 18:57:12 <oren> `cat emoticons/gaan 18:57:13 <HackEgo> ​(°Д°) 18:59:31 <oren> it really starts up the whole environment afresh with each command???!?! 19:13:23 <pikhq> Yep. 19:16:14 <int-e> `` uname -a 19:16:15 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux 19:26:45 <int-e> @metar EGPR 19:26:45 <lambdabot> No result. 19:28:12 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:29:11 -!- Herbalist has joined. 19:30:22 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:33:04 <int-e> http://airportnavfinder.com/airport/EGPR/ ... have a look at the maps with the three "runways" :) 19:34:16 <oren> Surface: dirt 19:34:37 <oren> Should be 'surface: salt water' 19:34:45 <int-e> nice, one can search for ICAO codes on google maps 19:34:52 <int-e> oren: it depends on the tides 19:35:22 <Taneb> int-e, that isn't an error, wow 19:38:11 -!- gamemanj has joined. 19:56:20 <zzo38> How can you make a JavaScript code in a web page that overrides events for clicking links to other parts of the same page? One wiki has problem so I want to override it in the custom script 20:10:59 <oren> es = document.getElementsByTagName('a'); for(i=0;i<es.length;i++){if(es[i].href.indexOf('#')==0){es.onclick=';'}} 20:11:14 <oren> es = document.getElementsByTagName('a'); for(i=0;i<es.length;i++){if(es[i].href.indexOf('#')==0){es[i].onclick=';'}} 20:12:25 <oren> hmm, apparently you need to do 20:12:48 <oren> function(){} instead of ';' 20:16:04 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:30:10 -!- GeekDude has joined. 20:31:03 <zzo38> The onclick doesn't seem to be set already though 20:32:52 <oren> maybe also set the href to '#'? 20:34:42 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:34:52 <zzo38> No the href is already correct, it links how it is supposed to 20:35:17 <zzo38> But clicking those links causes it to immediately go back and then forward again to the linked item, and then if back is pushed it refuses to go back. 20:37:10 <oren> right, a # link causes the whole page to be refreshed. 20:39:06 <oren> If you don't want that, you need to override onclick, and set the focus to the linked item, and manipulate the history using window.history 20:40:12 <zzo38> But what about, events added using addEventListener or so on? 20:40:49 <zzo38> Or an event which is not on the link itself 20:41:32 <oren> Hard to predict the possiblities, but if you set your own onclick, then consume the event, it won't bubble to enclosing elements 20:43:34 <zzo38> OK I can try 20:49:49 -!- b_jonas has joined. 20:49:59 <b_jonas> ohai 20:50:10 <FireFly> As far as I know, it's not possible to see listeners added via addEventListener 20:53:07 <FireFly> `ls emoticons 20:53:08 <HackEgo> gaan \ kyaa \ shrug 20:53:22 <FireFly> `` head emoticons/* 20:53:23 <HackEgo> ​==> emoticons/gaan <== \ (°Д°) \ \ ==> emoticons/kyaa <== \ (≧∇≦)/ \ \ ==> emoticons/shrug <== \ ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:56:19 <oren> maybe I should have put in a longer one, 20:56:29 <oren> liek ｶﾞ━━(ﾟДﾟ;)━━━ﾝ!!!!! 20:59:01 <oren> ``cat >emoticons/gaaan <<<'ｶﾞ~(ﾟﾛﾟ;)~ﾝ' 20:59:02 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `cat: not found 20:59:06 <oren> `` cat >emoticons/gaaan <<<'ｶﾞ~(ﾟﾛﾟ;)~ﾝ' 20:59:10 <HackEgo> No output. 20:59:39 <oren> `cat emoticons/gaan 20:59:40 <HackEgo> ​(°Д°) 20:59:43 <oren> `cat emoticons/gaaan 20:59:44 <HackEgo> ​ｶﾞ~(ﾟﾛﾟ;)~ﾝ 21:00:37 <oren> gaaan is a general expression of severe shock or dread in Japanese manga 21:03:14 <oren> most of these jis emoji don't look right in a terminal 21:04:21 <pikhq> That's cause your terminal sucks. 21:05:06 <oren> does your terminal check the font to see how wide a character is? 21:06:14 <pikhq> No, but JIS emoji assume a fixed width font... 21:06:44 <oren> yes but they also assume that Д is a wide character 21:07:43 <pikhq> ... 21:07:52 <pikhq> That's just brain damaged. 21:08:04 <oren> they assume that any character outside JIS 0201 is a wide character, 21:08:24 <oren> because that is how all fixed-width japanese fonts render 21:09:30 <pikhq> Which is... incorrect. 21:09:43 <oren> So it shows up fine in a browser if you have the right fonts, but in a terminal, they assume instead unicode width, which fucks it up 21:09:53 <pikhq> Oh, doh, it's not fixed width it's bizarre proportional width. 21:09:58 <pikhq> K, it won't ever work in a terminal. 21:10:21 <zzo38> Unicode is a bad idea for terminal emulators 21:11:58 <oren> EUC-CN is better 21:12:15 <pikhq> Which also means it'll only work rendered with MS PGothic (or anything with similar characteristics) 21:12:42 <pikhq> zzo38: Unfortunately, all other encodings suck. 21:12:53 <pikhq> Meaning that Unicode on a terminal is, well, what's gonna happen. 21:13:13 <oren> or really any EUC-XX is better than Unicode for fixed width stuff 21:13:56 <pikhq> Eh, just means wcswidth is easier. The real trick with terminals really is handling bidirectional text. 21:14:27 <oren> just write it backwards. PHP has 'hebrev()' function for this. 21:15:00 <pikhq> But that's incorrect. 21:15:03 <oren> you could easily write one that works for all R2L languages 21:16:10 <pikhq> The terminal's supposed to display it properly. Doing that just happens to suck. :) 21:20:24 <oren> I have no idea how they do arabic in a terminal? 21:20:55 <oren> do they just use the isolated form of every letter? 21:21:43 <zzo38> Unicode is terrible too though. ASCII is work good 21:22:57 <pikhq> I believe they just put the normal string in there. 21:23:48 <zzo38> Defining width, kerning, ligature, right-to-left, etc should be defined by the font metric file using whatever character encoding it defines (which is allowed to be Unicode if it wants); the rest of the program knows nothing about this, furthermore these font metric file aren't for terminal but are for typesetting instead. 21:24:22 <pikhq> This means that libc has to know about the font being used? 21:25:01 <zzo38> No, libc ought not to care at all. 21:25:11 <pikhq> But it has to know the character width. 21:25:16 <pikhq> wcswidth says so. 21:25:32 <zzo38> And should just assume one byte = 1 width unit 21:25:38 <pikhq> But that is wrong. 21:25:55 <zzo38> Doesn't it work for Shift-JIS though? 21:25:58 <zzo38> And for ASCII? 21:26:12 <pikhq> wcswidth *does* know the character set. 21:26:41 <pikhq> Anyways, a 4 byte UTF-8 character is not inherently 4 cells. 21:27:03 <zzo38> I know that, but, it can even be ambiguous too 21:27:13 <zzo38> Better is to not use wcswidth at all 21:27:36 <pikhq> Then how do you know the width of a string in units of terminal cells? 21:27:46 <zzo38> It is dumb for terminal cells to use UTF-8 21:27:50 <pikhq> (hint, a lot of fancier use of the terminal HAS to know that) 21:28:03 <zzo38> Like they said EUC would be better 21:28:08 <pikhq> But that's the thing: terminals *in practice* use UTF-8. 21:28:10 <zzo38> But you can also tell by querying the terminal if you need to 21:28:13 <pikhq> Because everything else uses UTF-8. 21:28:27 <zzo38> Well, I don't, I use VT100 and PC characters 21:28:31 <pikhq> Because everything else is only usable by a subset of humanity. 21:29:13 <zzo38> You should use an encoding with explicit widths. 21:29:25 <pikhq> Like Unicode. 21:29:28 <zzo38> If you need right-to-left, specify by a control code. 21:29:37 <pikhq> Unicode *has* character width defined, it's just in a lookup table. 21:29:41 <zzo38> Unicode isn't the encoding though, and UTF-8 doesn't have explicit widths 21:29:49 <zzo38> Encodings such as Shift-JIS do 21:29:51 -!- nys has joined. 21:30:27 <pikhq> Except no-they-don't, the rule "1 byte per 1 cell" is not entirely correct. :) 21:31:00 <zzo38> Yes they don't quite there are other problems too 21:31:59 <zzo38> A better encoding would be: Wide characters are two bytes in 0xA0-0xFF range; narrow characters are 0x20-0x7E or a SS2 or SS3 code followed by any 0xA0-0xFF or 0x20-0x7E code. 21:32:25 <pikhq> Oh good! It's *stateful*. 21:32:28 <pikhq> That *sucks*. 21:32:44 <oren> pikhq: it is entirely correct with a SJIS font! 21:32:59 <zzo38> (And then also SO and SI, to select additional characters such as line drawing) 21:33:01 <pikhq> oren: ... Which are proportional, not fixed width. 21:33:03 <pikhq> :) 21:33:06 <oren> No 21:33:24 <oren> Try the font MS Gothic 21:33:33 <oren> Not MS PGothic, MS Gothic. 21:33:45 <zzo38> (Also degrees, British pound sign, pi, etc are also selected by shift out) 21:33:46 <oren> Or any other non-P japanese font. 21:34:01 <pikhq> MS Gothic is not the font used for SJIS art. 21:34:36 <oren> Correct, however it DOES have 1-byte-per-cell when used with SJIS encoding 21:34:40 <pikhq> zzo38: ... stateful. Stateful sucks. 21:34:51 <pikhq> oren: Okay, then that's just terrible. :) 21:35:14 <pikhq> And means that the rendering of text changes if you convert to unicode... 21:35:19 <pikhq> Which doesn't seem right. 21:35:38 <zzo38> Then you shouldn't convert it to Unicode, except if you are going to convert back to Shift-JIS 21:35:59 <zzo38> Unicode is really terrible 21:36:06 <zzo38> ASCII is better 21:36:12 <pikhq> It is significantly better than all alternatives. 21:36:19 <oren> EUC-CN is better 21:36:21 <pikhq> Unless you seek to eliminate most languages. 21:36:39 <pikhq> oren: If you seek to eliminate most languages. 21:37:00 <zzo38> Even Unicode fails to encode a lot of stuff properly 21:37:40 <pikhq> Like? 21:37:41 <zzo38> You need to do it by font-metric files. This way you can define your own metrics for private-use as well as non-private codes. 21:37:52 -!- Tritonio has joined. 21:38:17 <zzo38> Commodore 64 codes 21:38:46 <zzo38> Constructed scripts (which is done by CSUR; there is also LINCUA which uses private use area for another purpose) 21:38:46 <pikhq> That's not "a lot", but sure, that is missing and maybe shouldn't be. 21:39:09 <pikhq> FWIW constructed scripts *may* go in Unicode... They just mostly haven't. 21:39:32 <zzo38> And there are many problems with what the various characters mean in situations, which can depend on language and other stuff 21:42:51 <oren> there is plenty of room in the EUC codes for accented letters and the like. their omission is purely because the existing EUC codes are country-specific 21:43:14 <pikhq> Good luck avoiding being country specific while improving Unicode. 21:43:23 <pikhq> (... no, seriously, I wish you the best of luck.) 21:48:17 <zzo38> My own design it uses 8-bit codes, but the codes are taken from a user-definable lookup table of 12-bit codes (the lookup table itself uses 9-bit codes though), but it guarantees 1 byte = 1 cell (except control characters which take up no space, but may still move the cursor), correct ordering, etc. This design is only for display though and is not designed for typesetting. (Also some codes can be used for user-defined characters) 21:48:49 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:49:06 <zzo38> This code does not include right-to-left languages, but you do have hiragana/katakana, Russian, ISO-8859-1, PC character set, Commodore 64, Apple Mousetext, Infocom character graphics, VT100 character graphics, etc 21:49:31 <zzo38> (The control codes are the same too) 21:50:29 <zzo38> You can easily know which 12-bit codes are control codes; they are the ones with the three high-bits all set! 21:50:44 <oren> I think there is a middle ground between encodings like EUC-JP or Latin-1 on one hand, and Unicode on the other. Consider if we support a subset consisting of only those unicode characters which are fully composed, do not link into ligatures, and are not copies of another character. 21:51:12 <pikhq> Then you still will not handle all languages. 21:51:15 <oren> (by copies, I mean to exclude the damned math italics) 21:51:21 <zzo38> oren: That is useful when you want to encode the text into a format that uses Unicode, such as in RDF. 21:52:02 <zzo38> Such subsets can then be used when you want to support only such subsets but make it compatible with program that render/search arbitrary Unicode texts too. 21:52:20 <oren> pikhq: right, but it would support _most_ languages, and in particular those which work well in a grid 21:53:12 <zzo38> Like I said, it is useful when you need to convert such text into Unicode, and/or decode it from Unicode. 21:55:16 <oren> I think you could cut it down to 0x7f80 non-ascii characters. 21:55:42 <oren> If you could, then the result would be a byte-widthed encoding. 21:55:59 <oren> (Assuming the font treats all non-ascii as wide) 21:56:52 <zzo38> Even if it doesn't treat all non-ASCII as wide, you can make some prefixes considered "control codes" which mean ones that start with those are narrow. 21:57:22 <oren> 0x7f80 = 128 non-ascii start characters, followed by 255 non-zero end characters 22:02:29 <zzo38> OK 22:04:11 <zzo38> If the string contains no control codes and all non-ASCII characters are wide, then it is in fact just the number of bytes = number of cells. 22:05:22 <zzo38> Your idea seem like it would be pretty good encoding for terminals. 22:05:33 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 22:06:06 <zzo38> Except that some narrow characters then won't work, unless you use a "prefix of narrow codes" 22:06:26 <zzo38> Which makes it only *slightly* complicated. 22:09:33 <oren> yeah. but at least the width is always <= number of bytes, which is not the case for utf-8 by a long shot 22:09:50 <shachaf> `wisdom 22:09:51 <HackEgo> quote/Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb. 22:10:33 <shachaf> `wisdom 22:10:34 <HackEgo> sleep/Sleep is for the weak. 22:11:18 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/sleep 22:11:19 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott oerjan 22:11:48 -!- vifino has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:13:25 <shachaf> `wisdom 22:13:26 <HackEgo> thanks ants/thants 22:23:49 -!- bb010g has joined. 22:26:25 <oren> Alternately, for byte-guzzling no-good-niks: use a 14 pixel high, 1 pixel wide font for double-byte characters. transmit any non-ascii character as an image formed from these thin slices. 22:28:06 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 22:35:37 <zzo38> I suppose for picture terminals it can help, or for a terminal with a picture mode in addition to the standard text mode. 22:46:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:51:45 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 22:53:42 <b_jonas> oren: nice! I was thinking of using 9 wide 1 high font in text mode to create monochrome graphics once, 22:54:06 <b_jonas> because I think you can put the Linux text console to such a mode without root permissions 23:03:33 <int-e> b_jonas: how about a 4x2 font with the braille subset of unicode... 23:04:00 <b_jonas> int-e: no, this would allow a higher resolution 23:04:12 <b_jonas> though only a lower refresh rate than a real graphics mode 23:04:19 <b_jonas> so a real graphics mode is still preferable 23:04:52 <zzo38> You shouldn't even use the Unicode there, although making it 4x2 helps so that you can convert it to Unicode at least. 23:12:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: I still have a problem with the braille subset of kanji (though if you're misusing them for graphics, it's irrelevant) 23:14:19 <b_jonas> Namely that there's no code places yet for the braille cells that extend the normal 6 point cells with two points _above_ the cell, as opposed to below. Those cells are used for "Katenji", the more believable one out of the two experimental systems to encode Japanese text with the kanji fully represented. 23:15:53 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:27:40 -!- oren_ has joined. 23:28:00 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 23:28:04 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:28:04 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:28:04 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:28:36 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:29:02 -!- Melvar has joined. 23:39:50 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 23:41:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:43:55 <shachaf> `wisdom 23:43:56 <HackEgo> sgeo/Sgeo is a language nomad. (Not to be confused with a language monad.) He invented Metaplace sex, thus killing it within a month. He was Doctor Mengele in his previous life, as evidenced by his norn experiments. 23:44:12 <shachaf> `? metaplace sex 23:44:13 <HackEgo> metaplace sex? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:45:45 <oerjan> let's not bring the carnage here tdnh 23:47:38 <oerjan> `learn Metaplace ♫ is where I want to be, ♫ I never m*%¤)&"#NO CARRIER 23:47:40 <HackEgo> Learned 'metaplace': Metaplace ♫ is where I want to be, ♫ I never m*%¤)&"#NO CARRIER 23:48:45 <shachaf> `` cd wisdom; rgrep invented * | grep -v Taneb | sed 's/:.*//' | xargs 23:48:46 <HackEgo> cpressey mroman Binary file reflection matches rtf sgeo twoducks unicode 23:50:01 <shachaf> ugh 23:50:08 <shachaf> reflection is not helpful for grep tdnh 23:50:30 <oerjan> fancy 23:51:14 <shachaf> `` cd wisdom; rgrep i[n]vented * | grep -v Taneb | sed 's/:.*//' | xargs 23:51:15 <HackEgo> cpressey mroman rtf sgeo twoducks unicode 23:51:41 <oerjan> we had to that back with `logs, i remember 23:51:53 -!- simpleirc has joined. 23:51:56 <shachaf> to do that? 23:52:17 <oerjan> munge regexes to avoid them matcing themselves 23:52:27 -!- simpleirc has changed nick to trinna. 23:52:37 <shachaf> I couldn't parse your sentence and then I realized it was probably missing the word "do". 23:53:56 <oerjan> oh 23:54:01 <oerjan> `quote ♫ 23:54:02 <HackEgo> 977) <kmc> ok im sober now and DNS makes sense again [...] <kmc> Domain Name System [...] <kmc> ♫ domain name system ♫ \ 985) <kmc> and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun <kmc> ♫ <kmc> ♫ ♫ ♫ <kmc> (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar 23:54:46 <oerjan> `` quote ♫ | tail -n +1 23:54:47 <HackEgo> 977) <kmc> ok im sober now and DNS makes sense again [...] <kmc> Domain Name System [...] <kmc> ♫ domain name system ♫ \ 985) <kmc> and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun <kmc> ♫ <kmc> ♫ ♫ ♫ <kmc> (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar 23:54:50 <int-e> fizzie: oh speaking of DNS, how's the esolangs.org takeover going? 23:54:59 <oerjan> hmph why can i never remember tail's syntax 23:55:11 <shachaf> -n 1 hth 23:55:32 <oerjan> `` quote ♫ | tail -n +2 23:55:32 <HackEgo> 985) <kmc> and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun <kmc> ♫ <kmc> ♫ ♫ ♫ <kmc> (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 23:55:40 <oerjan> i just had an off by one error 23:56:07 <shachaf> more like tail has an off by one error hth 23:56:10 <oerjan> shachaf: the syntax for counting from the beginning instead of the end 23:56:22 -!- trinna has left. 23:56:25 <shachaf> even more annoying is tail -c +1 23:57:26 <shachaf> `? copumpkin 23:57:27 <HackEgo> copumpkin is categorically incapable of being president. 23:57:42 <shachaf> copumpkin: is that still true outside of CT land? 23:57:56 <copumpkin> ? 23:58:10 <copumpkin> I will never be a "natural born US citizen", so yes 23:58:32 <shachaf> neither will i :'( 23:58:40 <b_jonas> you could just lobby to change that rule 23:58:50 <shachaf> maybe i can be president of the copumpkin fan club 23:58:51 <oerjan> copumpkin: you could perhaps become president of another country 23:59:01 <copumpkin> my other country doesn't have presidents! 23:59:11 <shachaf> Which other country? 23:59:13 <copumpkin> UK 23:59:21 <copumpkin> I'm also eligible for italian citizenship, which does have a president 23:59:33 <copumpkin> but I'm not sure they allow naturalized citizens to become president either 23:59:45 <oerjan> copumpkin: i was more thinking of finding a country which has no natural-born rule 23:59:59 <oerjan> pretty sure norway doesn't, alas we have a king. 2015-06-14: 00:00:01 <copumpkin> yeah, but most countries are sticklers for citizenship requirements 00:00:13 <shachaf> I'm a citizen of three countries which all have presidents. 00:00:14 <copumpkin> as far as I know, I'm only eligible for one citizenship I don't have 00:00:24 <shachaf> copumpkin: I hear it's pretty easy to buy some more. 00:00:26 <copumpkin> except for the ones you pay for/invest 00:00:39 <shachaf> I don't think I can be president of Finland either. :-( 00:00:44 <copumpkin> yeah, I think panama will let me become one if I invest a mere $1m into it 00:00:46 <oren_> Ok, I THINK that's the last bug 00:00:49 <copumpkin> or some comparable figure 00:00:54 <oerjan> well for norway you'd have to live there for 7 years unless they've changed that (and getting permission to live there might be tricky for many people) 00:01:32 <b_jonas> copumpkin: yes, the UK would be much more difficult to change. I wouldn't recommend that. 00:01:37 -!- oerjan has set topic: oren_ found the last bug| The Collatz files | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/. 00:01:44 -!- oerjan has set topic: oren_ found the last bug | The Collatz files | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/. 00:01:48 <oerjan> oops 00:01:50 <int-e> oren_: haha!, wait, are you serious? 00:01:52 <shachaf> `quote norway 00:01:53 <HackEgo> 806) <Phantom_Hoover> unfortunately df is not yet able to simulate norway \ 1087) <Bike> are you saying the rockies and some mountains in norway are the same range \ 1231) <oerjan> i guess norway just isn't cold 00:02:14 <oren_> int-e: sort of. I don't SEE anyhting worng out of 10 games I've tested 00:02:27 <b_jonas> copumpkin: try for President of Republic in Hungary. there's no requirement that you have to be natural born, you only have to be a citizen and at least 35 years old. 00:02:33 <copumpkin> ah okay 00:02:40 <copumpkin> how do I get hungarian citizenship though? 00:02:44 <oren_> So it appears that the scrolling interpolation is bug free. 00:02:46 <shachaf> Are there countries that don't require you to be a citizen? 00:03:09 <shachaf> i might run for president of hungry 00:03:11 <oerjan> copumpkin: you could theoretically perhaps become president of the eu parliament 00:03:26 <copumpkin> hmm, I guess 00:03:26 <int-e> oren_: ah so you have reached the point where "common usecases almost never break". 00:03:38 <copumpkin> can I just be the president of computing perhaps? 00:03:44 <copumpkin> and outlaw stupid computing shit 00:04:05 <int-e> hmm....mputing 00:04:07 <shachaf> outlaw turing completeness 00:04:13 <copumpkin> sounds good 00:04:21 <copumpkin> outlaw untypes 00:04:22 <shachaf> or just outlaw nontermination 00:04:30 <oren_> int-e: yes, where "common usecases" includes obscure Chinese unlicensed games 00:04:44 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:04:46 <oren_> Well, actually, I don 00:05:13 <oren_> t technically know that it works with nintendo licensed games 00:05:44 <oren_> Since I have long since beaten all those and therefore haven't been playing them... 00:06:00 <oren_> (all the ones I liked anyeay) 00:06:13 <shachaf> copumpkin: did you move yet? 00:06:15 <b_jonas> copumpkin: I think it's not very hard. you have to claim Hungarian ethnicity, which is the fastest route; or live here for a very long time, which is the slow route; or I think marrying a Hungarian citizen might also work as a fast route; or become a very good olympic class sportsman in a team sport and express your interest in playing in the Hungarian team if only you had citizenship, which is like the fastest express route 00:06:25 <copumpkin> shachaf: in the next couple of weeks :S 00:06:37 <copumpkin> ah 00:06:45 <copumpkin> no hungarian background unfortunately, and not very sporty 00:06:48 <copumpkin> so I'd have to live there for a while 00:07:04 <copumpkin> I also hear hungary has draconian drug laws 00:07:07 <copumpkin> which I'm not a huge fan of 00:07:14 <b_jonas> copumpkin: of course, just becoming a citizen isn't enough, getting the parliment to actually elect you as president is difficult. can you have mind control a hundred adults? 00:07:31 <shachaf> copumpkin: I hear just about every country has draconian drug laws. 00:07:39 <b_jonas> copumpkin: you don't have to _have_ hungarian background, you just have to claim and be able to fake it a bit. you may have to learn the language and culture a bit, but it's not very hard to do. 00:08:03 <b_jonas> copumpkin: ethnicity is subjective so you can always claim you feel you are Hungarian. 00:08:17 <copumpkin> shachaf: particularly draconian ones 00:08:33 <copumpkin> I was actually particularly stupid about that 00:08:41 <FireFly> b_jonas: do you have any express route tips for becoming 35 years old? 00:08:56 <copumpkin> I bought a smallish bag o' weed while I was in amsterdam and forgot I had it 00:09:01 <copumpkin> went all around europe, got down to croatia, then crossed by train to hungary 00:09:06 <copumpkin> without realizing 00:09:10 <oren_> My greatuncle became 18 at 14 00:09:52 <shachaf> What's with lots of drugs being illegal by default everywhere, anyway? 00:09:59 <b_jonas> FireFly: I think the Chinese can give some hints for that. they supposedly aged some young gymnasts for the olympics illegally. 00:10:06 <copumpkin> I hear they throw foreigners in jail for years all the time over shit like what I did 00:10:08 <copumpkin> but I was lucky 00:10:18 <copumpkin> still clueless, I realized I had it in my hotel in budapest 00:10:22 <copumpkin> and figured I might as well smoke it 00:10:23 <copumpkin> so I did 00:10:31 <copumpkin> still didn't get caught, but it would've been bad 00:10:59 <b_jonas> shachaf: they're not illegal "by default". they explicitly made them illegal. 00:11:08 <shachaf> Yes. 00:11:28 <b_jonas> copumpkin: um, doesn't weed sometimes leave a characteristic small they can find even if they don't catch you red-handed? 00:11:30 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 00:11:34 <b_jonas> I don't really know, maybe that's some other drugs 00:11:42 <copumpkin> it does, but we smoked out the window 00:11:50 <copumpkin> ^_^ 00:11:52 <oren_> weed only smells when it is smoked 00:12:11 <b_jonas> copumpkin: oh yeah, out of the window. that's what all the tobacco smokers say, but you still get the room smelly when you do that. 00:12:28 <copumpkin> hmm, I guess we were lucky :) 00:12:34 <b_jonas> no, I don't buy "out of the window" unless you actually go to the balcony. 00:12:39 <copumpkin> or perhaps if I go back to hungary they'll arrest me on the spot 00:12:41 <oren_> Right. people who smoke (either one) can't detect the smell of their drug 00:13:03 <b_jonas> copumpkin: admittedly, the workers who clean up your room might not recognize what it's the smell of. I wouldn't. 00:13:16 <copumpkin> "I just happened to have a pet skunk" 00:13:22 <oren_> yeah. 00:13:30 <b_jonas> I don't know how many people know what weed smells like. 00:13:49 <b_jonas> I have almost no experience with drugs, luckily, so I don't know. 00:13:54 <oren_> I know because of my parents 00:13:59 <oren_> and their friends 00:14:06 <oren_> 60's hippies 00:14:17 <copumpkin> I've smoked <10 times in my life 00:14:23 <copumpkin> it's fun, but I prefer being lucid 00:16:37 -!- vifino has joined. 00:17:26 <b_jonas> ok 00:17:49 <shachaf> smoking seems to me like a pretty unpleasant way to consume drugs 00:18:10 <oren_> Apparently a vaporizer is much better 00:19:23 <shachaf> Maybe I should say "inhaling". 00:19:30 <oren_> the only drug I take is coffee and on special occasions alcohol. 00:19:47 <oren_> So I would not know form personal experience 00:20:00 <b_jonas> shachaf: I think it depends on the particular drug 00:20:20 <b_jonas> some of them are used intravenously, or so I hear 00:21:50 <oren_> I would suspect that those would be ones that are destroyed by stomach acid? 00:22:11 <oren_> and can't be brought to high temperatures 00:22:59 <oren_> A pharmacologist (or pharmacology student) would know 00:25:29 <b_jonas> no idea 00:26:03 <oerjan> <shachaf> What's with lots of drugs being illegal by default everywhere, anyway? <-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Convention_on_Narcotic_Drugs hth 00:31:23 <oerjan> and a couple others. 00:34:05 <oren_> Hey, apparently LLVM is optimizing out infinite loops! 00:39:13 <oren_> http://pastebin.com/0ZZwEKiq 00:39:32 <oren_> Under -O3 llvm outputs fail 00:39:43 <oren_> er, the resulting program does 00:40:49 <oren_> That is, IMO, a huge bug 00:41:37 <b_jonas> oren_: make a small testcase, make sure it's really a bug, not some mistake you made, report the bug 00:42:15 <oren_> there is a testcase in the pastebin above 00:46:16 <zzo38> Can you do coroutines in LLVM? 00:48:21 <zzo38> oren_: It should depend whether or not the infinite loop contains any external effects (including I/O, interrupts, accesses to volatile variables, and "do not optimize" flags). 00:48:44 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:49:19 <oerjan> <oren> hackego isn't running irssi? <-- why in the world would a bot use irssi 00:49:57 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:49:58 <HackEgo> wecome/wecome in pece. 00:50:03 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:50:04 <HackEgo> bonvenon/Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno kaj ellaso de esoteraj programlingvoj! Por pli da informado, vizitu la Viki-on: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Por la alia speco de esotero, iru al #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) 00:50:07 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:50:07 <zzo38> `wisdom 00:50:08 <HackEgo> oerjan/Your famous evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. 00:50:08 <HackEgo> urbandictionary/Urban Dictionary is an alternative, inferior wisdom database. 00:50:09 <oerjan> it sounds like the worst possible thing to parse the output of 00:50:37 <oren_> zzo38: I would say that whether a program terminates is the most fundamental side effect 00:50:39 <shachaf> considering making slashlearn use mk 00:50:45 <shachaf> y/n? 00:50:53 <oerjan> oren_: unless it's actually written in irssi script, that is. 00:52:33 <zzo38> oren_: Yes it is, therefore a "do not optimize" flag after the loop also has to avoid it since the loop terminated, reaching the "do not optimize" flag even though it is supposed to be unreachable. This can make it a bit difficult. 00:53:15 <zzo38> Otherwise the infinite loop should just be optimized into a single command which specifies that it is an infinite loop. 00:53:58 <zzo38> So, I say it should optimize it, but rather than removing it entirely, it needs to optimize into a "please wait forever" command. 00:54:42 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm all for modularization hth 00:54:56 <shachaf> oerjan: so you're ok using // instead of /? 00:55:03 <zzo38> And then, the C interface of the instruction architecture and operating system defines what the "please wait forever" command means. 00:55:10 <oerjan> oh right 00:55:19 <zzo38> I say that slashlearn shouldn't be changed in this way; if you need it, use mk instead 00:55:22 <oerjan> shachaf: well it's a feature 00:55:49 <shachaf> oh, i know 00:55:56 <shachaf> i'll make le/rn use / and le//rn use // 00:56:00 <shachaf> by looking at $0 00:56:32 <oren_> Looks like they alread know about this bug, 00:57:23 <zzo38> Regardless of how "please wait forever" is defined though, the specification must require that if the command ever returns, what happens afterward is undefined unless the program halts immediately; if it does halt immediately, it must be an error condition if the operating system supports these kind of error conditions. 00:57:41 <FireFly> `cat bin/mk 00:57:42 <zzo38> It is allowed to define "please wait forever" as a simple infinite loop too though. 00:57:42 <HackEgo> ​[[ "$1" == *//* ]] || exit 1; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$key" && echo "$key" 00:57:48 <FireFly> ah. 00:58:58 <zzo38> That's my opinion: If the infinite loop contains no external effects, it is allowed to optimize it into a "please wait forever" command. Does this seem like OK? (This also mean you can find this command in the optimized intermediate code if you look) 01:00:06 <oren_> yeah 01:00:29 <oren_> There is a halt instruction on many architectures 01:05:48 <zzo38> Presumably on most systems it would actually compile into a program that does nothing and never finishes. For LLVM the "please wait forever" command would be considered as terminating a basic block; therefore the stuff after the infinite loop can be deleted by the optimizer. 01:09:05 -!- boilyphone has joined. 01:09:26 <boilyphone> coppro: hello! 01:12:33 <coppro> hi! 01:19:38 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:25:02 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:25:28 <zzo38> SELECT TOTAL(RDF_VALUE(X))/COUNT() FROM G { ? a :Person; :age ?X }; -- That is a kind of "SQL+G" that I almost made up (but didn't implement), so that you can combine SQL with RDF. 01:25:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 01:25:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:31:08 <zzo38> (Assumes that you have already issued a CREATE PREFIX or CREATE TEMPORARY PREFIX command to define the empty string prefix.) 01:35:24 -!- lemurian has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 01:45:29 -!- a2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:55:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 02:04:25 -!- boilyphone has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:21:23 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:25:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:26:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:29:26 <oren_> Damn. My algorithm does the most work when there isn;t any work to be doen 02:29:55 <oren_> I need to cahe the results somehow 02:31:28 <oren_> i only need like, 2 bits 02:31:51 <oren_> those are some expensive bits to compute 02:47:49 -!- lemurian has joined. 03:30:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:45:03 -!- Wright_ has joined. 03:45:03 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:02:43 <oren_> good midnight! 04:07:00 <oerjan> 'morning 04:20:31 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:20:48 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 04:24:13 -!- Wright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:43:56 -!- variable has joined. 04:49:41 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 04:53:25 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Client Quit). 04:55:57 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 05:23:30 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:45:43 <fowl> :> 07:03:59 <zzo38> fowl: What is that? 07:04:53 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:06:08 <fowl> mfw 07:22:03 <fowl> zzo38: I'm writing a VM and and and it just did a correct operation 07:31:18 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:45:56 <zzo38> Why can't I post a comment on http://www.websnark.com/archives/2005/10/god_shot_think.html ? It displays an error message but the HTTP response code is actually 200 OK 07:46:07 <zzo38> "Got an error: Bad ObjectDriver config" 07:48:08 <zzo38> Henn is bad too, but that is not seen in the pictures displayed there. 07:49:07 <zzo38> (As far as I am concerned, you can see from the full context that Suzy and Henn are both bad.) 08:22:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:30:40 <mroman> fnord 08:31:36 <mroman> paul2520: Oh. hackmode has been removed from Burlesque anyway. I'll remove the link. 08:37:40 <zzo38> OK, what is that hackmode that has been removed? 08:43:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:03:32 -!- lemurian has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:04:36 -!- b_jonas has joined. 09:05:50 <mroman> zzo38: It mapped Burlesque commands to single bytes 09:06:10 <mroman> but since Burlesque now has way more than 256 commands 09:06:16 <mroman> it was removed 09:06:38 <mroman> There are 388 non-special builtin-ins as of now. 09:09:08 <mroman> although 1.7.3 probably had less 09:09:35 <mroman> 1.7.3 has 340 09:11:17 <mroman> I'm updating the lref for 1.7.4 now 09:11:25 <mroman> and then maybe I can convince shinh to update it on anagol 09:12:36 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:20:39 <zzo38> You could still use Huffman coding or VLQ coding 09:23:57 <zzo38> To make secure communication on internet what you should need is to avoid webpages completely and instead do this: Manually agree the keys in person, including a security card that displays a number and automatically updates by time. Server sends a challenge that is encrypted using a hashcode of your password and the security number as the key. Client then responds to the challenge and communicates securely using session keys. 09:28:37 <zzo38> (If you are paranoid, use two such security cards; one locked in your desk drawer and one in your pocket.) 09:33:17 <mroman> Netflix seems paranoid 09:33:23 <mroman> Doesn't even support paypal well. 09:33:55 <mroman> (meaning you can't pay with paypal pre-paid) 09:40:07 -!- hjulle has joined. 10:03:15 <mroman> The US could just ban toy weapons... 10:04:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43207 * Rdococ * (+2001) PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC 10:05:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdococ]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43208&oldid=43068 * Rdococ * (+55) PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC again 10:09:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:10:29 <mroman> Although arguably there should be better methods to take such people out without injuring them too badly. 10:11:44 <mroman> also don't give pellet guns to 12 year olds. That's stupid anyway. 10:15:43 <mroman> in general I don't like people who accuse you of doing something wrong without first discussing what should've/could've been done. Even if you clearly did something wrong, it's not a constructive thing to do. 10:15:51 -!- boily has joined. 10:18:10 <mroman> although it looks like the us police's method is "disable threat as quickly as possible" 10:18:18 <mroman> compared to "isolate threat as quickly as possible, then proceed" 10:19:32 <mroman> and this is of course incredibly generalizing and based on no data other than some of the news report I got my hands on ;) 10:41:54 <boily> `? Zork 10:41:56 <HackEgo> Zork is like York, except for the first letter. 10:41:57 <boily> `? grue 10:41:58 <HackEgo> grue is the colour of the trees and the ocean 10:42:02 <boily> `? Metaplace 10:42:02 <HackEgo> Metaplace ♫ is where I want to be, ♫ I never m*%¤)&"#NO CARRIER 10:44:24 <boily> how do I notes again... and is that a universal currency over there? 10:48:48 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:50:01 -!- spiette has joined. 10:53:59 <boily> @tell oerjan your underhanded attempts at symbolising the Wisdom won't mar it! 10:53:59 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 10:54:42 <boily> @tell oerjan (on the other hand, syntastic is complaining like crazy) 10:54:42 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 10:59:35 <boily> and looks like I'm missing some other stuff. stuff that will be fixed after lots of coffee, nutella toasts, and half a tournament. 11:00:46 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:03:26 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:18:35 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:45:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SUBCOMPACT CHICKEN). 11:55:54 -!- nys has joined. 12:09:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:12:54 -!- gamemanj has joined. 12:21:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:55:28 <mroman> fnord 12:55:35 <mroman> fungot: about or? 12:55:36 <fungot> mroman: we're wednesday and the earth!! god bless america!! i want a cl/ fnord thing there. 12:56:08 <mroman> at least fungot seems to be patriotic. 12:56:09 <fungot> mroman: it was close. because of erlang's guard clause syntax, it's a catastrophe. between that book, actually. 12:56:37 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:56:56 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:17:09 -!- TieSoul has joined. 13:21:08 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 13:22:20 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:24:25 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 14:00:48 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:01:03 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:02:55 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:40:09 <tswett> Hey everyone, remember boiljan? 14:41:31 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:41:58 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 15:07:01 -!- Wright has joined. 15:15:37 <b_jonas> quick question. can a 400 character long alt text written literally in a HTML attribute cause any compatibility problems on browsers? eg. could it cause the image not to show up? 15:16:32 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:16:54 -!- gamemanj has joined. 15:51:23 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:51:55 -!- TodPunk has joined. 15:52:38 -!- atrapado has joined. 15:52:58 -!- quietello has joined. 16:03:20 -!- variable has joined. 16:28:47 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:43:40 -!- lemurian has joined. 16:46:23 <J_Arcane> b_jonas: IME even on super old browsers, long alt text tags just get cut off. 16:50:22 <oren_> hmm. Paradoxically, the cpu load is higher when memoizing previous results, than when computing them over and over again 16:51:05 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 16:51:20 -!- fowl has joined. 16:51:24 <b_jonas> J_Arcane: ok, thanks 16:51:54 <b_jonas> J_Arcane: I was worried that maybe some parsers will reject the whole entity because it's too long, and assume it's an unescaped less than sign 16:52:29 <J_Arcane> Could be, but the last time I saw a problem with an alt-text, it was that exact one, and it was in the days of like, Netscape Navigator. 16:52:44 <J_Arcane> It's possible a newer one might be more likely to complain than an older one. :D 16:53:23 <b_jonas> I don't care if the alt text is just truncated 17:03:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:21:45 -!- password2 has joined. 17:28:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Genesis]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43209 * 78.148.92.128 * (+65937) Created page with "Genesis 1 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God mov..." 17:32:24 <gamemanj> Um, that doesn't look like an esolang... 17:34:01 <nys> don't be narrow-minded, now 17:38:39 <J_Arcane> gamemanj: long, unintelligible, prone to contradictions, and impossible to assemble a coherent logical system from. Sounds like an esolang to me. 17:52:23 <gamemanj> J_Arcane: Along with features that should never be used (such as a certain type of tree), yet are anyway? 18:04:46 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:08:33 -!- llue has joined. 18:09:00 <J_Arcane> :D 18:09:25 <J_Arcane> Perl Cannot Be Parsed: A Formal Proof http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=663393 18:11:42 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:20:25 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 18:20:40 -!- lleu has joined. 18:34:07 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:42:38 <quintopia> is there a type of oracle that can answer questions that could not be answered with the use of a halting oracle? 18:43:23 <tromp_> sure 18:43:51 <Taneb> Fundamental Truth Oracle 18:45:11 <pikhq> The Turing-machine-plus-halting-oracle halting oracle. 18:50:06 <tromp_> see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetical_hierarchy 18:50:51 <quintopia> Taneb: i meant without assuming omniscience. 18:51:26 <quintopia> tromp_: i don't understand 18:51:27 <int-e> quintopia: then you don't have an oracle? 18:52:03 <quintopia> int-e: a halting oracle is not omniscient! it can tell you if your program halts, but it can't tell you your middle name. 18:52:22 <int-e> quintopia: right. go with pikhq's answer then 18:52:43 <pikhq> My middle name is Joseph iff your program halts. 18:54:46 -!- hjulle has joined. 18:54:47 <quintopia> huh. my program was "if (pikhq_middle_name == "Joseph") exit(0) else: while true: pass" 18:55:28 <int-e> what a remarkable coincidence 18:55:46 <int-e> so now that the universe is inconsistent, let's have some fun... 18:56:30 <quintopia> good thing pikhq's middle name has no bearing of the contents of the string pikhq_middle_name... 18:56:49 <int-e> (let's convince a bank that 1 = 0, say, and use that fact to withdraw tons of money... I suspect there is some sort of flaw in that plan) 18:58:49 <b_jonas> int-e: http://www.xkcd.com/816/ 18:59:00 <b_jonas> (see title text too) 19:00:32 <int-e> Interesting. 19:06:48 -!- llue has joined. 19:06:48 <gamemanj> Especially read the title text, it points out a flaw in your plan 19:08:38 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:14:45 <int-e> Yes, I know. 19:15:29 <int-e> I had forgotten about this xkcd although it looks like one that I should've remembered. 19:26:43 <zzo38> I don't expect a bank to believe it; and even if they do it would be for number systems (such as the trivial ring) which is not applicable to how much money is in your bank account. 19:26:52 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 19:27:08 -!- lleu has joined. 19:28:53 <b_jonas> http://www.xkcd.com/704/ is also relevant 19:29:57 <gamemanj> Hey, if anything can be derived, does that make Malbolge usable by humans? 19:38:47 <fowl> If Perl parses Perl then Perl must not be unparsable 19:41:42 <gamemanj> fowl: The point seems to be that you can't parse it without executing it to find out the meanings of some parts. 19:45:26 <pikhq> Which is to say parsing Perl is computationally equivalent to executing a universal Turing machine. 19:48:07 -!- Herbalist has joined. 19:49:47 <zzo38> Not only Perl, but also Forth and TeX 19:52:58 <fowl> gamemanj, im not sure about that 19:53:03 <fowl> no functions in perl take arguments 19:53:11 <fowl> sub x {...} 19:56:20 <oren_> fowl: they don't take NAMED arguments 19:56:51 <oren_> however when you call x with x(3,4), then inside x, you can get 3 and 4 as 19:57:11 <oren_> $_[0] and $_[1] 20:04:09 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:21:18 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:23:46 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:27:11 -!- Nihilumbra has joined. 20:33:09 <tswett> Hmm, Combientièm. 20:33:36 <tswett> Combientièm is, of course, unparseable, for the same reason that Forth is. 20:35:37 <tswett> Combientièm seems complex enough that Turing-completeness is likely. 20:46:49 <zzo38> I have implementation of biquad filter with four coefficients and I figured out that you can use -1 0 0 0 BIQ and 0 0 1 0 BIQ to seem to make up derivative and antiderivatives. 20:58:39 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:00:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:31:19 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:35:09 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:36:09 -!- erdic has joined. 21:38:57 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 21:40:27 <shachaf> `le/rn equal temperament/Equal temperament is just intonation that's evenly spaced. 21:40:33 <HackEgo> Learned «equal temperament» 21:41:42 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:41:44 <HackEgo> nimby/NIMBY : Not in my backyard. 21:41:45 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:41:45 <HackEgo> arrow/Arrows are just strong monads in the category of profunctors. 21:41:47 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:41:48 <HackEgo> rtf/RTF stands for Rich's Text Format, invented by Rich Burlew. In addition to plain text it supports simple stick figures. 21:42:29 <shachaf> culprits wisdom/rtf 21:42:43 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/rtf 21:42:46 <HackEgo> oerjan 21:42:53 <shachaf> foiled by the phone 21:43:12 <zzo38> I don't know who Rich Burlew is 21:44:35 <shachaf> He makes olist. 21:45:09 <zzo38> O, now I can see on Wikipedia 21:45:19 <Taneb> `culprits tanebvention 21:45:20 <HackEgo> No output. 21:45:24 <zzo38> He makes stick figures. 21:45:26 <Taneb> `culprits wisdom/tanebvention 21:45:28 <HackEgo> oerjan Taneb oerjan elliott oerjan oerjan FireFly oerjan boily oerjan ais523 ais523 oerjan 21:45:39 <Taneb> :Oerjan 21:46:29 <zzo38> I don't use miniature figures for Dungeons&Dragons though, just graph paper 21:46:36 <FireFly> `` culprits wisdom/tanebvention | sed 's/\<[dop]/:&/g' 21:46:37 <HackEgo> ​:oerjan Taneb :oerjan elliott :oerjan :oerjan FireFly :oerjan boily :oerjan ais523 ais523 :oerjan 21:46:45 <FireFly> well that was a bit disappointing 21:47:18 <zzo38> What are you trying to do? 21:47:26 <Taneb> zzo38, when I play we generally just sort of imagine it 21:47:42 <Taneb> If we need reference we use miniatures on an erasable surface like a whiteboard 21:48:13 <zzo38> When I play also we just generally imagine it, but use graph paper when we want to know where everything is in relation to other things more precisely. 21:49:05 <Taneb> In one of the games we are in we are hiding in an airship meant as a decoy for us (arranged without our knowledge) 21:49:19 <Taneb> The logic being that no-one would think to search the decoy 21:50:07 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 21:50:20 -!- fowl has joined. 21:51:46 <zzo38> Yes, that is one idea of where to hide. 21:52:08 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:52:09 <HackEgo> orin/orin is oren's evil twin, stalking him from the other side of the international date line. 21:52:14 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:52:15 <HackEgo> lystrosaurus/lystrosaurus is a genus of Late Permian and Early Triassic Period dicynodont therapsids, which ruled the world around 250 million years ago. 21:52:18 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:52:19 <HackEgo> orin/orin is oren's evil twin, stalking him from the other side of the international date line. 21:52:34 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:52:37 <HackEgo> tdt/That doesn't tdt. 21:52:51 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:52:52 <HackEgo> ​ørjan/Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers. 21:53:16 <zzo38> Generally though in my game when we hide, they often find us anyways because enough people are looking for us with enough persistence that they will eventually succeed. But sometimes I decide to hide in the future instead. 21:53:45 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/ørjan 21:53:46 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull shachaf shachaf 21:53:55 <Taneb> zzo38, none of our party are time travellers (yet) 21:54:30 <Taneb> (the party's wizard may become a time traveller later) 21:54:36 <zzo38> Well, I can jump forward in time and take some other creatures and objects too, but that uses up power points and it doesn't go all that far either. 21:55:10 <zzo38> (I have hidden objects in the future too, not only characters) 21:55:11 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:55:12 <HackEgo> oren/oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. 21:55:14 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:55:15 <HackEgo> structsubural type/Something Bike is into. Not to be confused with suburban destruction. 21:55:34 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:55:35 <HackEgo> alice/Alice doesn't want to go among mad people. 21:55:36 <b_jonas> zzo38: a time traveller wizard? nice 21:55:54 <b_jonas> wait, power points? are you a psion? 21:56:02 <zzo38> b_jonas: It isn't very powerful time travel 21:56:08 <zzo38> Yes, psionics and wizard, both 21:56:16 <b_jonas> BOTH? 21:56:24 <b_jonas> there are people who do both psionics and wizardry? 21:56:27 <b_jonas> that's strange 21:56:33 <zzo38> Yes 21:56:39 <b_jonas> that's a combination I wouldn't have imagined 21:56:42 <Taneb> b_jonas, our wizard is also a rogue 21:56:51 <Taneb> My character is just a cleric though 21:56:57 <zzo38> And my sister played a sorcerer/fighter combination 21:57:21 <b_jonas> zzo38: in what order did that happen, and what are the relative power of your relative strengths in psionisc and wizardry, and what did you do that helps both? 21:57:24 <Taneb> I keep a "kill" count of enemies I have forced to leave combat (I am playing as a pacifist) 21:57:29 <Taneb> It is on 17 and I am level 3 21:57:31 <b_jonas> do you use many magic items? do you create magic items? 21:57:39 <zzo38> I don't use many magic items or create any 21:57:51 <zzo38> Refer to my "level20.tex" file for full details. 21:57:59 <b_jonas> zzo38: I can understand sorcerer/fighter 21:58:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: um, what's its url again? 21:58:09 <Taneb> zzo38, which edition do you play? 21:58:49 <zzo38> I started without a spellbook, and therefore couldn't cast many spells except the mastered spells, until finally figuring out the spells again in spare time and writing them down in a book. 21:59:03 <zzo38> b_jonas: http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 21:59:15 <Taneb> I am in a game of 4th edition (where I play the pacifist cleric), and a game of 5th edition (where I play a paladin who is not pacifist) 21:59:29 <zzo38> (The file is pretty long; read all of it if you *really* want to understand) 22:00:22 <zzo38> I also wrote all of the macros by myself too, which includes sorting skills in alphabetical order automatically, keeping track of items and levels, footnotes, and more 22:01:58 <Taneb> Goodnight everyone 22:02:16 <zzo38> Good day everyone 22:05:01 <zzo38> I started the game without any items at all. 22:05:37 <zzo38> So did my brother's character, Also 22:05:42 <zzo38> (Also is his name) 22:06:21 <b_jonas> zzo38: did you start as a wizard? 22:06:46 <zzo38> Yes 22:06:53 <b_jonas> I see 22:06:53 <zzo38> It says so on the page 22:06:59 <zzo38> But I started with enough levels to have both 22:07:13 <b_jonas> aha, right 22:07:42 <b_jonas> I should be reading the character sheet at the start 22:08:10 <zzo38> (The .dvi is available too if you want a prerendered copy; that one only includes the character sheet at the end though.) 22:08:33 <b_jonas> no thanks, tex is easier to read 22:08:46 <b_jonas> and I can probably tex it 22:08:58 <zzo38> (If you want a character sheet before each session, you must compile it youself; it will then ask you what level of detail you want, such s to omit footnotes and to omit character sheets and so on) 22:09:35 <zzo38> To compile it yourself you need the "dungeonsrecording.tex" file too (in the same directory) 22:09:44 <b_jonas> hmm, these starting ability scores seem funny. are those normal for an illithid? 22:10:05 <b_jonas> isn't he supposed to have a dump stat or something? 22:10:10 <zzo38> I used the "Goldilock's Method", which is something in between random and point-base 22:10:38 <zzo38> (And a program on my TI-92 calculator to calculate it) 22:11:12 <b_jonas> sure, but did you get adjustments for being an illithid? 22:11:18 <zzo38> Yes 22:12:04 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 22:12:13 <zzo38> Those are factored in to the "Goldilock's Method". 22:12:32 <zzo38> Although you also get bonuses for high level too. 22:13:19 <b_jonas> yes, but even with high level it seems to high and too uniform 22:13:32 <b_jonas> a very high level character would likely have a dump stat 22:15:28 <zzo38> When characters have high ability scores due to species the level adjustment compensates for this (and other things) 22:15:31 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:15:49 <b_jonas> I see 22:15:59 <zzo38> The reason for being uniform is mainly due to the Goldilock's Method though; it is possible to make less uniform scores, but not always. I can explain its working 22:16:40 <b_jonas> (I have two dump stats in real life. I don't know how easy it is to guess that from irc.) 22:17:01 <zzo38> b_jonas: I also don't know how easy it is to guess; I never tried to think of it so I don't know 22:17:08 -!- atrapado has joined. 22:17:52 <b_jonas> (People who know me well in real life can probably tell.) 22:19:20 <zzo38> [1] Choose a number 0 to 9 for each ability score (there are no limits about duplicates, the total, etc). [2] Add 1d8 to each one. [3] Convert each of these numbers into percentages of the total. [4] Use a lookup table to convert into plain numbers. [5] Apply racial modifiers. [6] Repeat steps 2-5 to create another set of ability scores. [7] Choose one. [8] Get 2 bonus points (or 3 if the total without the racial modifiers is less than 70). 22:19:25 <b_jonas> oh, I see! you get psionic abilities not from a player class, but from a race class! 22:19:29 <b_jonas> that makes much more sense 22:19:44 <zzo38> Yes. 22:20:23 <zzo38> Some people say this method results in unusually *low* scores. Actually, they result in about average scores, although you don't have as much control as you do with a full point-based system. 22:20:54 <b_jonas> sure, full point-based gives you ultimate control 22:20:55 <zzo38> The numbers you choose in step [1] are too high, they will become more uniform than you might want. 22:21:26 <b_jonas> and if they are low, then step [2] will screw them up 22:21:57 <zzo38> Best is probably choosing high numbers for scores you want high. 22:22:13 <zzo38> But remember you do get two chances to apply step [2]. 22:23:23 <b_jonas> are racial modifiers constant terms you add? or are they more complicated? 22:23:49 <zzo38> They are constant terms (usually even numbers) that you add (or sometimes subtract, but subtracting is rare when the level adjustment is high). 22:24:17 <b_jonas> I don't recognize most of these psionic abilities and some of the spells, but that's normal 22:24:51 <zzo38> Some of them are obscure. 22:25:17 <zzo38> And a few of them I even made up and got reviewed from the referee and other people. 22:26:11 <b_jonas> oh right, this is the non-flying type of illithid. that's why it has feather fall. 22:27:01 <b_jonas> but I don't get this. how many levels of each class do you have? I don't see that in the character sheet. 22:27:41 <zzo38> That is what the \Class command does. 22:28:04 <zzo38> The \RacialHD are also levels, and \LevelAdjustment are pseudolevels. 22:28:20 <b_jonas> oh, so, both \Class Wizard=5 and \RacialHD=8 22:28:22 <b_jonas> makes sense 22:28:53 <b_jonas> isn't \LevelAdjustment the challenge rating (difficulty) adjustment, which adjust how much XP you get and what encounters are considered fair? 22:29:12 <zzo38> No, level adjustment is independent of challenge rating (which we ignore). 22:29:15 <b_jonas> s/encounters/encounters and other challenges/ 22:29:21 <zzo38> For calculating experience points, pseudolevels count too; for other purposes (such as the amount you heal), pseudolevels aren't counted. 22:29:39 <b_jonas> right 22:29:58 <b_jonas> but the experience points tell what challenges are considered fair, do they not? 22:30:44 <zzo38> They generally are supposed to (LA is for PCs and CR for NPCs is generally the consideration, kind of), but our group just ignores CR and uses only ad hoc XP. 22:31:03 <b_jonas> I see 22:31:24 <b_jonas> and that applies both when you defeat a challenge and get XP, and when you are defeated and someone else gets XP from you, right? 22:31:58 <zzo38> The winner's LA and loser's CR is generally what is supposed to apply. 22:32:16 <zzo38> (But NPC's XP are rarely kept track of, but sometimes are) 22:32:47 <b_jonas> wait, does that mean that in this game your level adjustment only matters if someone gains XP from from you? 22:32:50 <b_jonas> no wait 22:32:55 <b_jonas> you said the winner's LA 22:33:09 <b_jonas> oh, you mean the adjustment tells how much XP you need to get the next XL? 22:33:13 <zzo38> No. Level adjustment is used to figure out how much experience points you need. 22:33:19 <b_jonas> right! 22:33:32 <b_jonas> though if you use ad-hoc XP then that probably doesn't mean much either 22:33:34 <zzo38> So your total real levels + pseudo levels is the level that you need to reach by experience points. 22:33:47 <b_jonas> thank you for the explanation 22:34:19 <zzo38> So it *is* important; it makes it harder to go up levels, and whatever level you start at, the level adjustment therefore decreases your starting level (but not your experience level) to compensate. 22:35:09 <b_jonas> sure, but the input is the ad-hoc XP 22:35:22 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, plus the starting level. 22:36:00 <b_jonas> you could just as well track ad-hoc fractional XLs, without counting XPs, and give the ad-hoc XLs so it's harder to level (but also harder to lose a level from spending XP) 22:36:35 <zzo38> b_jonas: I think that is more complicated though and makes it difficult 22:36:41 <b_jonas> yep 22:37:05 <zzo38> For example, a player enters a game starting at level 10, and chooses a character with LA+3 and RHD+2, they get to create a 7th-level character with 5 class levels, but starting with as much experience points as a 10th-level character. 22:38:16 <zzo38> If you are using the encounter XP tables, the experience level is the one that counts here. (If you aren't, then it is irrelevant unless the referee still wishes to scale by level, in which case you should probably still use experience level) 22:39:21 <zzo38> The example character will be vulnerable to spells that affect 7th-level characters (even if they don't affect 10th-level characters), will heal only 7 HP per day (rather than 10 HP), and so on. 22:40:40 <b_jonas> what? there's a racial HD adjustment that can be positive for players? and isn't it the starting CR rather than the starting XL that's supposed to be specified, rather than the starting XP? 22:40:48 <zzo38> My own game design (which is extremely incomplete and mostly abandoned) doesn't use the term "level adjustment", but it does have "pseudolevels" which is the similar concept. 22:41:24 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, there can be. And it is the starting experience level which the game master specifies. 22:41:35 <b_jonas> that's strange but ok 22:41:50 <zzo38> (However, specifying starting XP also implies what the starting experience level is anyways.) 22:42:00 <b_jonas> yes, I mean starting XL 22:42:36 <b_jonas> I mean it seems you specified the real starting XL, rather than the one adjusted with the LA. 22:42:43 <b_jonas> that's what I find strange 22:43:15 <zzo38> The LA makes makes the actual level less than the experience level. 22:44:06 <zzo38> For balacing purposes it is common to specify the starting experience level or experience points instead of only counting real levels. 22:44:08 <b_jonas> well, I guess specifying a starting XL is also how crawl works, 22:44:18 <b_jonas> but that's a single-player game 22:44:49 <b_jonas> isn't it approximately equal _adjusted_ levels that would make a better adventuring band of player characters? 22:45:16 <zzo38> It is; the term "level adjustment" is a bit confusing and I don't like it; it should be called "pseudolevels". 22:45:26 <b_jonas> hmm 22:45:52 <b_jonas> maybe this is why the CR and the adjusted level are separate 22:45:57 <zzo38> (i.e. actual levels + pseudo levels = experience level) 22:46:13 <b_jonas> the adjusted level tells how fast you gain levels, the CR tells how powerful you are 22:46:17 <b_jonas> but still 22:46:27 <b_jonas> if you share XP equally, then you'd level equally if you had the same adjusted level 22:46:46 <b_jonas> s/share XP/share XP gains/ 22:47:18 <zzo38> If you use encounter XP tables and have the same experience level, and you share them biased by level, you do all level equally. 22:48:09 <b_jonas> but maybe all that's irrelevant here because you have only two players and they're both of races with a high positive adjustment 22:48:09 <zzo38> So if your experience level is 10, it is as hard to level up as any 10th-level character, even if your actual level is only 5. 22:48:19 <b_jonas> not, like, a doppelganger and an orc 22:48:56 <zzo38> Actually more players join the game later, and some also leave later. Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe is the only character that remains (so far; possibly one of the others might return later?) 22:49:17 <b_jonas> for how long in real world time has this game been running? 22:49:25 <zzo38> Look at the session headings. 22:49:49 <zzo38> (Search for the first and last instances of "\session" in the document.) 22:50:01 <b_jonas> right 22:50:11 <zzo38> (And then subtract the dates. But remember it still isn't complete, so you might want to use today's date instead) 22:50:58 <b_jonas> basically about four years so far 22:51:25 <zzo38> I intend also improving the story line, and I have a trope page (and trope RDF file) about it too. 22:51:41 <b_jonas> trope RDF file, hehe 22:53:25 <zzo38> http://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/level20.tex 22:53:38 <zzo38> That's the trope page on wiki. 22:53:47 <b_jonas> sorry, I won't look at that now 22:54:21 <zzo38> OK, you can look later (or not at all if you really hate to look at it ever, but you are allowed to change your mind later too) 22:54:34 <zzo38> And the RDF is: http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.trope 22:57:33 <b_jonas> basically, I just spent most of today (and some of yesterday) standing in awe because of the new special and awesome MLP episode, finding more and more awesome details and references in it (sometimes alone, sometimes after reading spoilers) 22:58:07 <zzo38> Ah, OK. 22:58:08 <b_jonas> I'm not going to attempt looking at any other fiction work in detail now 23:00:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:02:19 <b_jonas> it's basically a deliberately very unique special celebratory episode that's different from normal episodes. 23:02:30 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:03:05 <b_jonas> I totally didn't expect this, and it's awesome. 23:03:22 <zzo38> What is tihs episode? 23:04:14 <b_jonas> zzo38: it's S5 E9 "Slice of Life" (gimmick scheduled for this particular episode because it's the 100th ep of the tv series) 23:04:41 <oerjan> @messages- 23:04:41 <lambdabot> boily said 12h 10m 43s ago: your underhanded attempts at symbolising the Wisdom won't mar it! 23:04:41 <lambdabot> boily said 12h 10m ago: (on the other hand, syntastic is complaining like crazy) 23:04:49 <zzo38> O, OK 23:05:04 <b_jonas> and it's an episode celebrating and thanking the unique fandom the series (in slightly broader sense) has gathered 23:06:05 <b_jonas> it does this by presenting a story where the regular main and secondary characters appear very little, several background characters are expanded, and canonizes a selection of fan speculation about them 23:06:55 <b_jonas> and has lots of (sometimes well hidden) funny little details, references to previous episodes of the series, and references to fanon 23:07:02 <zzo38> Ah, so that's what it is. 23:07:11 <b_jonas> also some references to other fictional universes 23:07:32 <b_jonas> and it manages to be heartwarming and amazing according to many people 23:07:39 <zzo38> I know a lot of people like this TV show. 23:07:55 <b_jonas> (obviously you can always find some people who don't like any one particular episode, there are a few for this too) 23:08:03 <oerjan> zzo38: those must be some strange people 23:08:03 <b_jonas> (you can't go for universal acclaim) 23:08:11 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes 23:08:16 <oerjan> (also i need my brain's parser recalibrated) 23:08:47 <zzo38> I know, this may happen even with other TV shows too, chapters in a book, comic strip, whatever, where some people might not like some of them, even people who mostly like it in general. 23:08:48 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, in particular, a lot of geeks are watching it, so there's even a little intersection with #esoteric 23:09:09 <b_jonas> also, given that they did this for the 100th episode, it will likely be unique even in the future 23:09:10 <zzo38> I am aware, yes. 23:09:23 <b_jonas> not something they'll regularly do 23:09:25 <b_jonas> at least that's my guess 23:09:46 <b_jonas> zzo38: the way how many geeks seemed to like it is what made me interested in first place 23:10:09 <b_jonas> helloerjan 23:10:38 <oerjan> b_jellonas 23:10:44 <zzo38> Ah, well, the way how many geeks seemed to like it does seem a reason to make it worth a try at least to look at it. 23:11:20 <b_jonas> zzo38: and, I mean, they looked like they were the kind of geeks similar to me (at least some of them are) 23:11:35 <zzo38> O, OK 23:12:31 <b_jonas> also, apparently it has a lot of role-playing fans 23:13:20 <b_jonas> it helps that I knew even before that that I like cartoons and like fiction that's advertized by publishers for juvenile audience 23:13:38 <b_jonas> so those heuristics matched 23:15:09 <b_jonas> also, the music of the first four seasons is nice 23:15:09 <zzo38> Well, like any one, some cartoons/fictions I like and some I don't like much. It is also a bit independent what kind if intended/advertised audience, too. 23:15:36 <zzo38> Yes, some TV shows have nice music on it 23:15:45 <b_jonas> zzo38: the "advertized for juvenile audiences" might be a red herring actually 23:15:53 <zzo38> And some computer games have nice music 23:16:01 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, I have been told that too 23:17:20 <b_jonas> as in, I don't like romantic fiction at all, and romantic fiction is usually advertized to adults, which alone carries a lot of weight 23:17:47 <b_jonas> and I definitely grown to hate most non-fiction works advertized to children or teenagers these days 23:17:59 <b_jonas> as in, pop science books for them 23:18:12 <b_jonas> I used to sort of like them as a child 23:18:38 <zzo38> It is pretty similar for me too I think 23:19:08 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> @tell oerjan your underhanded attempts at symbolising the Wisdom won't mar it! <-- actually i checked that the quotes already contained that note character. 23:19:08 <b_jonas> the day I realized Quittner Pál's booklet about popular physics contains a gross factual error where it explains sea tides might have contributed 23:19:08 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 23:19:37 <b_jonas> and obviously it may have been that I had more time reading and discovering more authors to read when I was young, and less tiem now 23:20:15 <b_jonas> so I found a lot of good authors whose works are supposed to be for children, and have difficulty finding new authors I like 23:20:37 <b_jonas> oh, did I mention I watch few films and TV series, and prefer reading books? 23:21:15 <zzo38> I do actually don't watch TV much, and prefer book 23:22:15 <b_jonas> good night 23:29:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Genesis]]": Off topic 2015-06-15: 00:17:16 <oren_> In order, I prefer: Video Games > Manga > Books > Movies 00:19:46 <zzo38> To me, it is not going to be that simple 00:27:50 -!- lifthrasiir has left. 00:28:29 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 00:31:57 -!- boily has joined. 00:44:23 <oerjan> bollihey 00:45:55 <boily> hellœørjan! 00:46:01 <boily> @massages-loud 00:46:01 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1h 26m 53s ago: <boily> @tell oerjan your underhanded attempts at symbolising the Wisdom won't mar it! <-- actually i checked that the quotes already contained that note character. 00:46:13 <boily> oh. nice attention! 00:46:41 -!- lemurian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:46:59 -!- lemurian has joined. 00:47:08 <boily> coppro: chelloppro! 00:51:13 -!- Nihilumbra has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:01:55 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:08:20 -!- TieSoul has joined. 01:12:24 -!- variable has joined. 01:16:57 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CONNECTING CHICKEN). 01:32:00 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 01:32:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:32:59 -!- gamemanj has joined. 01:39:38 <tswett> I'm training another neural net on #esoteric. 01:39:46 <tswett> So far the net is very stupid indeed. 01:39:55 <tswett> The longest English word it has successfully produced 01:39:59 <tswett> Uhh. 01:40:09 <tswett> Here's the longest English word it has successfully produced so far: "er" 01:40:33 <tswett> The output resembles English insofar as it contains a large amount of letters. 01:40:44 <gamemanj> Er, does "er" count as an English word, or just a detail of speech? 01:41:01 <tswett> Well, people who speak other languages don't say "er". 01:41:11 <tswett> It's also produced the word "eh". 01:41:16 <gamemanj> In which case it probably counts. 01:41:30 <zzo38> How much data have you put in so far? 01:42:02 <oerjan> no:er = en:am/are/is hth 01:43:13 <oerjan> (in fact i vaguely recall english borrowed am/are from norse) 01:44:04 <tswett> zzo38: mm, lemme calculate. 01:44:38 -!- augur has joined. 01:45:23 <tswett> That's after processing only half a megabyte. 01:45:35 <tswett> The entire training data file is 25 megabytes. 01:46:58 <gamemanj> tswett: Well, if it still fails, Add More Logs. If you run out of logs, go borrow someone else's :) 01:47:30 <zzo38> Can this software be used with music or only text? 02:03:37 <tswett> It's made for text. You can use it for music if you can think of a good way to represent music as text. 02:04:20 <tswett> I mean, it's for strings of bytes. You COULD just feed in a WAV file or something, but it wouldn't work. 02:05:15 <gamemanj> tswett: Well, there's probably a standard for sheet music as text... there usually is for these things... 02:08:42 -!- GeekDude has joined. 02:10:47 <tswett> You want something the neural net is good at learning, though. 02:11:00 <tswett> I have an idea for representing piano music. 02:12:11 <tswett> There are 88 bytes, each of which indicates a note onset. 88 more, each of which indicates a note release. One more, indicating the passage of some amount of time. 02:13:58 <zzo38> A WAV file won't work so well but yes that byte sequence you specify can work 02:27:45 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 02:28:49 <tswett> All right, the neural net trained for another 200 rounds, and it's looking *much* better. 02:29:24 <tswett> As has been my experience, it seems to be doing best with the "regular language" parts of the input, and worst with the prose. 02:29:43 <tswett> Here's a representative sample of what it's produced: 02:29:50 -!- fowl has joined. 02:29:54 <tswett> 3:59:54: -!- Tinr 4reasrb} borerdt_ctoe 02:29:54 <tswett> 09:08:1<: <blomeeet tsope 02:29:54 <tswett> 07:12:36: <oeedebld ruw ( in qhatauf uto an., towi h rhomgetevpt shcil: Loleoo Dosrdrred 02:30:23 <tswett> Now, it has a tendency to occasionally get just a couple of letters wrong in a phrase. 02:30:24 <gamemanj> I'm sorry, I can't understand that. Could you repeat that in English? 02:30:41 <gamemanj> (I'm referring to the bot's "sample") 02:30:49 <tswett> Maybe "Loleoo Dosrdrred" is a corrupted version of a phrase that appears frequently. But I can't think what it would be. 02:30:52 <tswett> And the answer is, no. :D 02:31:18 <gamemanj> Who is blomeeet, I wonder... 02:31:33 <gamemanj> There's only 1 person whose name starts with b on this channel... 02:32:15 <tswett> With a lower temperature, the prose is *slightly* better. 02:32:24 <tswett> 9:57:10: <blcjan> hase tilk thiny if thorg mhe top as pon co tee tiche tout aan tharl jen oo notl 02:33:34 <tswett> Here's a complete list of the nicks that appear in the low-temperature output: orrjan, blcjan, flooan, oee-anon, oeljan, ois5, lelban, eiseaBe_. 02:35:18 <tswett> So, the net has a very very very basic understanding of how English words. 02:35:25 <tswett> "Letters with spaces in between." 02:35:38 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:35:52 <tswett> Now I should probably go to bed. I will, of course, leave the net training overnight. 02:36:06 <gamemanj> tswett: thatsbetterthanmerightnowtryingtoparodywhatwouldhappenifsomehorrordestroyedenglishwords 02:36:30 <gamemanj> (Translation: That's better than me right now, trying to parody what would happen if some horror destroyed English words!) 02:40:32 <oerjan> then you get greenlandic hth 02:44:17 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb). 02:45:01 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:56:41 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 02:56:54 -!- fowl has joined. 02:56:54 -!- fowl has quit (Changing host). 02:56:54 -!- fowl has joined. 02:57:35 <oren_> the words er and um are english. japanese words for the same meaning are えと and あのう. 02:58:39 <pikhq> Sometimes あのさ. 02:58:51 <oren_> yah that too 03:05:34 <oren_> I seem not to be able to program effectively without music 03:07:03 -!- Wright_ has joined. 03:07:03 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:10:26 <zzo38> How can I get Apache to accept HTTP PUT requests by configuring the .htaccess file? (I want it to call a CGI script though and not just upload the file directly. I also want it only for certain files.) 03:12:11 <zzo38> When I tried without putting it in and using with cURL I get various errors both 411 and 400 03:18:16 <zzo38> I am not using WebDAV and do not need it. 03:23:00 <coppro> @tell boily http://i.imgur.com/BtNq7SE.jpg 03:23:01 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 03:26:15 <oren_> maybe http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_actions.html 03:26:38 <oren_> this allows to associate a script with particular methods 03:30:04 <oren_> AAAAAAAA there was another bug! 03:30:25 -!- oerjan has set topic: oren_ found the last bug. oh wait... | The Collatz files | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/. 03:31:08 * gamemanj actually bothers to read wisdom.pdf... and... 03:31:32 <oren_> This one occurs when playing a game that scrolls even slower. 03:31:47 * oerjan sidles away from gamemanj to a safe place 03:32:01 <oren_> I'm not sure how slow a game can scroll? 03:32:01 <gamemanj> Why? Is something about to happen? 03:32:33 <zzo38> oren_: THe Script command doesn't work in .htaccess files 03:32:36 <oerjan> >_> <_< 03:36:05 <oren_> Manowar is the best metal 03:36:50 <gamemanj> The definition of "bc" in wisdom.pdf seems to be... an Octal dump? 03:37:00 <oren_> `? bc 03:37:01 <HackEgo> bc ௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵ 03:37:29 <gamemanj> As I said, in wisdom.pdf. 03:37:32 <oren_> ` od -c wisdom/bc 03:37:32 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 03:37:41 <oren_> `` od -c wisdom/bc 03:37:42 <HackEgo> 0000000 b c 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 \ 0000020 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 \ 0000040 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 \ 0000060 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 \ 0000100 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 340 257 265 34 03:38:47 <gamemanj> That's different to the one in the PDF(see channel topic), but still similar. 03:39:21 <oerjan> @tell boily gamemanj is complaining about `? bc in the wisdom.pdf hth 03:39:22 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 03:39:29 <gamemanj> Complaining? 03:39:51 <gamemanj> @tell boily I'm not complaining, I was just asking what it was an octal dump of... 03:39:51 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 03:39:57 <oerjan> it is possible boily has given up on those characters 03:39:57 <oren_> `` od wisdom/bc 03:39:58 <HackEgo> 0000000 061542 160040 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 160265 \ 0000020 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 \ 0000040 160265 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 160265 132657 \ 0000060 127740 160265 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 160265 \ 0000100 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 \ 0000120 160265 13265 03:40:13 <gamemanj> Yep, that's the same one 03:40:23 <oren_> I see. it's an octal dump by 16 bit words 03:41:33 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/bc 03:41:34 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull guestbot 03:41:44 <oren_> `` od -o2 wisdom/bc 03:41:44 <HackEgo> od: invalid option -- '2' \ Try `od --help' for more information. 03:41:48 <oren_> `` od -to2 wisdom/bc 03:41:48 <HackEgo> 0000000 061542 160040 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 160265 \ 0000020 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 \ 0000040 160265 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 160265 132657 \ 0000060 127740 160265 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 160265 \ 0000100 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 160265 132657 127740 \ 0000120 160265 13265 03:41:54 <oerjan> what did i do... 03:41:55 <oren_> yeah. 03:42:12 <oerjan> `url wisdom/bc 03:42:13 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/bc 03:42:24 <oren_> it is an octal dump 'o' be 2-byte words '2' 03:43:44 <oren_> It is bullshit IMO that the standard posix shell doesn't include the inverse of od 03:43:50 <oerjan> hm only the guestbot one is listed, i guess the rest are `reverts 03:44:05 <oren_> er, the standard posix utilities that is 03:44:32 <zzo38> I also want PUT only working on certain files, and the Script command of Apache doesn't seem to do that either? 03:44:47 <oerjan> oren_: agreed on that 03:54:05 -!- password2 has joined. 03:59:12 <oren_> good midnight 04:01:45 <gamemanj> `cat wisdom/mad 04:01:46 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/mad: No such file or directory 04:03:04 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:05:32 <zzo38> Is it possible to use NTTP with cURL? 04:05:37 <zzo38> s/NTTP/NNTP/ 04:06:04 <quintopia> i just realized, though i never noticed it before, that elliott was on the xkcd fora 04:06:24 <quintopia> he posted in a stickied thread back in 2007 04:09:54 <quintopia> he played lots of games 04:15:21 <quintopia> the first thing he said was: 04:15:29 <quintopia> Just registered to say 04:15:29 <quintopia> [B[B[B- don't learn perl 04:15:29 <quintopia> - or php 04:15:30 <quintopia> - learn scheme 04:15:47 <quintopia> wisdom for the ages 04:17:16 <zzo38> I got PUT to work now 04:18:04 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:29:21 <oren_> I don't agree. A imperative language is much easier to understand and thus a better language to beign with 04:29:55 <oren_> BASIC brought us a whole generation of programmers 04:31:35 <oren_> PHP and Perl are perhaps not the best imperative languages though. 04:31:44 <oren_> Python 2 is better 04:32:02 <quintopia> whatcha got agin python 3 04:33:23 <oren_> python 3 is incompatible 04:33:41 <oren_> so the same thing I have against PErl 6 04:34:12 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:38:07 <oren_> IMO it is complete bullshit that they did not put a way to import python 2 libraries 04:38:23 <oren_> like C++'s extern "C" 04:39:44 <oren_> import from _past_ 04:42:04 -!- a2 has joined. 04:47:00 <oren_> i mean, eventually python 3 will be the better choice, but it isn't right now, and plenty of new code is still written for python 2.7 04:50:33 <oren_> had they created a compatibility layer, people would be able to write their code in python 3 without worrying about the libraries they are using, but they were dumb... 04:54:42 <oren_> Hmm, according to https://python3wos.appspot.com/ most libraries support python 3, but I can see one exception which is a major dealbreaker for me... mysql-python 04:55:08 <coppro> pmysql? 04:56:08 <oren_> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/MySQL-python/1.2.5 05:00:00 <oren_> pymysql might work. 05:13:13 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 05:16:49 -!- gamemanj has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:38:12 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:58:33 <zzo38> Will the client stop trying to download favicon.ico with every request if the request returns a 410 response? 06:48:29 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 06:58:11 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:11:22 <oren_> Hmm. pymysql does work. I therefore recant. python 3 is mature enough to be used. 07:13:53 <myname> the thing about python2 is that people insist on using it because nobody uses python 3 because nobody uses python 3 07:14:49 -!- Herbalist has joined. 07:16:39 <oerjan> just throw some critical mass at those people, that solves everything hth 07:17:02 <olsner> is python 3 better or is it just a bigger number? 07:17:22 <oerjan> it's a fundamental cleanup? 07:18:13 <oren_> yeah it basically cleans up a lot of inconsistent stuff 07:18:29 <oren_> but in doing so is incompatible 07:20:18 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:25:57 -!- zadock has joined. 07:32:09 <mroman> fnoooord 07:32:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43210&oldid=43207 * Rdococ * (+51) /* Examples */ OOPS, FIXED SOME ERRORS IN EXAMPLES 07:33:25 <mroman> Breaking backwards compatability is always a huge risk. 07:34:25 <mroman> but in order to clean-up there's probably no real way around it. 07:35:45 <myname> a better community than pythons would be fine 07:36:13 <myname> i expected python 3 to be accepted way earlier tbh 07:39:14 -!- rdococ has joined. 07:43:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:43:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:44:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 07:44:34 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:46:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:08:36 -!- Herbalist has joined. 08:28:45 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 08:40:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:46:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:47:31 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:55:14 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:36:02 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:40:49 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:53:56 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 10:05:31 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:15:57 <rdococ> hi...guys... 10:16:27 <rdococ> boily asked 7d 15h 3m 29s ago: rdhellococ! I will spontaneously describe you in the next minutes. would you like to have an autodescription instead? 10:16:39 <rdococ> umm, can I have a chat log as to what he described? 10:17:34 <Taneb> rdococ, relevant logs are http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2015-06-07 10:17:39 <Taneb> I don't think much description occured 10:24:35 -!- boily has joined. 10:25:25 -!- zadock has joined. 10:36:30 <rdococ> I dont see any 10:36:33 <rdococ> nevermind then 10:36:49 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:36:52 <rdococ> thanks anyway 10:39:15 <rdococ> did you see my new language, PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC? 10:39:41 <rdococ> its an extension of GOTO 10:40:53 <rdococ> ... 10:43:35 <boily> rdhellococ. this sounds like a demon invocation or something. 10:43:43 <boily> @massages-loud 10:43:43 <lambdabot> coppro said 7h 20m 43s ago: http://i.imgur.com/BtNq7SE.jpg 10:43:43 <lambdabot> oerjan said 7h 4m 22s ago: gamemanj is complaining about `? bc in the wisdom.pdf hth 10:43:43 <lambdabot> gamemanj said 7h 3m 52s ago: I'm not complaining, I was just asking what it was an octal dump of... 10:45:02 <boily> @tell coppro ha ha ha! 10:45:03 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 10:46:31 <boily> @tell oerjan the first pass I did on the wisdom, I hg cloned the repo. bc wasn't showing properly, therefore I did the most logical thing I could do. 10:46:31 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 10:46:46 <boily> @tell gamemanj it's an octal dump of what `? bc is hth 10:46:46 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 10:47:37 <boily> @tell coppro oh wait, no. it's not what I think it is, or is it? 10:47:38 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 10:50:51 <rdococ> boily: PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC....PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC.... 10:51:09 <rdococ> demon chanting printaskswitchinputcasexgotoacaseygotobelsegotoc... 10:51:36 <rdococ> summon the great dark lord of finite state automata 11:03:12 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:27:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LYMPHATIC CHICKEN). 11:40:30 -!- staffehn has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 11:40:47 -!- staffehn has joined. 11:47:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:50:41 <oerjan> @messages- 11:50:42 <lambdabot> boily said 1h 4m 10s ago: the first pass I did on the wisdom, I hg cloned the repo. bc wasn't showing properly, therefore I did the most logical thing I could do. 11:52:01 <oerjan> `? rdococ 11:52:06 <HackEgo> rdococ ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:52:32 <oerjan> `le/rn rdococ RDOCOCLIKESTOMAKELANGUAGESLIKETHIS 11:52:34 <HackEgo> Learned «rdococ rdococlikestomakelanguageslikethis» 11:52:39 <oerjan> wat 11:52:41 <oerjan> `revert 11:52:45 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 11:52:51 <oerjan> `le/rn rdococ/RDOCOCLIKESTOMAKELANGUAGESLIKETHIS 11:52:53 <HackEgo> Learned «rdococ» 11:52:59 <oerjan> Gregor: ping 11:53:43 <oerjan> rdococ: i think that's the kind of description he meant hth 12:02:59 <rdococ> `? rdococ 12:03:00 <HackEgo> RDOCOCLIKESTOMAKELANGUAGESLIKETHIS 12:03:03 <rdococ> hahahahaa 12:03:09 <rdococ> like it 12:03:43 <oerjan> you're welcome 12:10:16 <rdococ> hmmm 12:10:36 <rdococ> I wonder... 12:12:18 <rdococ> "An esolang that is a derivative of itself"? how on earth...? 12:12:41 <oerjan> clearly an exponential language 12:16:08 <myname> like "the first rogue-like was a game called rogue"? 12:18:01 <coppro> @tell boily that is trundle riiching with kokushi, and subsequently getting suucha riichied 12:18:01 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 12:24:15 <rdococ> oh I know! 12:24:22 -!- hjulle has joined. 12:24:25 <rdococ> a programming language where programs are worlds in Everybody Edits. 12:25:01 <rdococ> wait... you havent heard of that game? Everybody Edits? ... nevermind 12:25:35 * oerjan just googled 12:25:43 <oerjan> and no 12:26:21 * oerjan isn't much of a gamer 12:26:44 <rdococ> oh ok... 12:28:09 <rdococ> nevermind... atleast you can give feedback on PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC... right? 12:28:41 <oerjan> erm... 12:28:51 * oerjan has been skirting his wiki duties lately 12:28:58 <rdococ> ??? 12:29:36 * rdococ thinks oerjan wants an excuse to delete PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC's article... and not as soon as it was created... 12:29:49 <oerjan> as in, last time i made a giant catchup of a whole month at once 12:29:54 <rdococ> oh... 12:30:05 <rdococ> so nothing to do with PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC... 12:30:09 <oerjan> nope 12:30:10 <rdococ> thank goodness 12:30:35 <oerjan> with that name, if it's a programming language at all, chances are it's on topic 12:33:21 <rdococ> yes, definitely sounds esoteric 12:34:01 <rdococ> I might make another language, seeing as it seems to have caught on 12:37:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:40:28 -!- llue has joined. 12:41:24 -!- GeekDude has joined. 12:43:09 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:44:15 <mroman> rdococ just created THISISYETANOTHERBRAINFUCKDERIVATIVEBUTACTUALLYITSJUSTATOTALBRAINFUCKEQUIVALENT 12:45:48 <b_jonas> where do people get these long names from? and without spaces too, unlike Nora's 12:50:13 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 12:52:55 <oerjan> > (>>=map toUpper).words$"no idea b_jonas" 12:52:57 <lambdabot> "NOIDEAB_JONAS" 12:53:00 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 12:56:00 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:08:58 -!- Anarchist has joined. 13:09:22 -!- Anarchist has changed nick to Guest2276. 13:10:02 -!- Guest2276 has changed nick to laster. 13:11:05 -!- laster has changed nick to Guest2276. 13:25:20 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 13:25:35 -!- lleu has joined. 13:31:09 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:38:26 <Guest2276> why hello 13:42:01 <tswett> Ahoy. 13:42:10 <tswett> Have you been officially welcomed? 13:45:15 <Guest2276> no 13:47:52 <FireFly> `welcome Guest2276 13:47:53 <HackEgo> Guest2276: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 13:48:52 <Guest2276> why thank you! 13:49:07 <Guest2276> Does anyone do art magick? 13:51:20 -!- rdococ has joined. 13:51:53 <Guest2276> why welcome to esoteric rdococ 13:52:23 <rdococ> I'm not new here... 13:53:11 <Guest2276> Wait...that's only for new people? 13:53:16 <Guest2276> *Facepalm* 13:53:34 <rdococ> you should have said "welcome back" 13:53:52 <oerjan> no, no, the proper thing for old people is: 13:53:56 <oerjan> rdellococ 13:54:05 <oerjan> very traditional 13:54:19 * oerjan runs away 13:54:25 * Guest2276 runs away 13:54:38 <rdococ> uh no its rdhellococ 13:54:58 <oerjan> the h is sometimes elided. typical sandhi phenomenon hth 13:56:17 <rdococ> dont you mean sandi penomenon? 13:56:30 <rdococ> also dont you mean eluded? 13:56:47 <oerjan> pretty sure i mean elided. 13:57:06 <rdococ> you would be a very bad programmer making constant syntax errors like this 13:57:08 <rdococ> wait srsly? 13:57:19 <rdococ> ok say occluded instead 13:58:05 <oerjan> i suppose in this case eluded might also be appropriate. 13:58:20 <oerjan> but it probably doesn't mean what you thought. 13:59:18 * oerjan should start using illude twh hth 13:59:33 <oerjan> darn illuded by the script again 14:00:47 <oerjan> Guest2276: i probably should point out that this is a programming channel, so there's not much magick here. 14:01:20 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:01:26 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:01:58 -!- rdococ has joined. 14:02:32 <Guest2276> Ah! Gotcha 14:02:39 <rdococ> what did you say...? "hth"? 14:02:48 <oerjan> `? hth 14:02:49 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 14:03:05 <rdococ> umm I looked it up on google but thanks anyway 14:03:20 <oerjan> wait rdococ doesn't know about hth, i think he must be new here anyway. 14:03:25 * rdococ is wondering how he didn't know... 14:03:37 <rdococ> me??!! new?! preposterous 14:04:04 <rdococ> look in the chat logs and find my first message to this channel 14:04:53 <oerjan> sadly the logs are no longer that easily chronologically searchable, since HackEgo's big server move. i suppose we could ask fizzie, i think he has some impressive private logs. 14:05:52 <oerjan> hm i think he's a bit idle. 14:06:02 <rdococ> me? idle? preposterous! 14:06:07 <oerjan> no, fizzie 14:06:20 <rdococ> oh... fizzie... idle?! 14:06:53 <oerjan> 2 days 3 hours 50something minutes 14:11:17 <Guest2276> *Whistles* 14:11:18 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [). 14:11:19 <Guest2276> Wow 14:11:59 <oerjan> ] 14:14:50 -!- evalj has joined. 14:15:14 <b_jonas> ] _1 14:15:15 <evalj> b_jonas: _1 14:21:07 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 14:21:44 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 14:22:26 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:25:23 <rdococ> imagine a turing complete programming language with only a single instruction that has no parameters... is it possible? 14:25:50 <rdococ> ...and I didn't mean like the chicken programming language 14:26:27 <oerjan> it seems like that'll be essentially Unary-like 14:26:42 <oerjan> the only information is the number of instructions in the program 14:26:49 <rdococ> yes... 14:27:15 <rdococ> so if we can map the set of all programs to the set of all integers, then its possible 14:27:31 <oerjan> well that's not very hard. 14:27:33 <rdococ> all positive integers, although that wont make a difference 14:27:44 <rdococ> *including zero though 14:28:09 <rdococ> maybe... idk... 14:28:36 <oerjan> well it's easy if you can leave out some integers, otherwise it's still possible but requires some care. 14:28:58 <rdococ> I had this idea where programs were algebraic expressions - x is cat program, 1/x is rev program, 2x is double cat, 3x^2... 14:29:06 <rdococ> if you get the logic 14:29:46 <oerjan> i'm not sure that generalizes very well. cpressey made a language like that, Burro. 14:29:54 <oerjan> (iirc) 14:30:06 <oerjan> or, erm 14:30:17 <oerjan> it was trying to be algebraic. 14:30:42 <rdococ> I dont see the relation... it tries to use mathematical symbols but has no relation to mathematics at all when you swap the characters around 14:31:42 <oerjan> by "it" do you mean your idea? 14:32:06 <rdococ> no, I meant Burro 14:32:40 <oerjan> well the programs have an algebraic group structure. 14:32:49 <rdococ> uh ok 14:33:39 <rdococ> umm 14:34:49 <oerjan> i once saw someone trying to define a kind of reversible language where subtraction and division were different kinds of "reversing" calculations. except i don't think they'd really made it work logically consistently. 14:35:17 <rdococ> I had this idea that a program is a function o(t, i) mapping time t and input function i to output 14:35:56 <rdococ> so cat(t, i) = i(t), delayedCat(t, i) = i(t - 1) 14:36:26 <oerjan> mhm 14:36:59 <rdococ> shiftedCat(t, i) = i(t) + 1 14:37:44 * oerjan is slightly reminded of functional reactive programming, which he only vaguely knows. 14:38:06 <oerjan> but some forms of it have an explicit time parameter. 14:38:39 <rdococ> what is that about? 14:40:18 <oerjan> for example, how to do GUIs functionally rather than imperatively 14:40:40 <rdococ> I want to invent a new programming paradigm... 14:42:37 <oerjan> great ambition. i'm not sure the best way of doing that is to set out with that as your intention, though. 14:51:47 -!- Guest2276 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:07:00 -!- Wright has joined. 15:07:00 -!- Wright_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:23:24 <rdococ> umm... 15:23:33 <rdococ> that nickname, is it a reference to a game of some kind? 15:28:48 <shachaf> `wisdom 15:28:52 <HackEgo> caps lock/CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR TIRED OLD MEMES 15:48:38 <oerjan> rdococ: what nickname? 15:52:00 <shachaf> `wisdom 15:52:01 <HackEgo> bienvenue/Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) 16:00:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Au revoir). 16:18:44 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:23:32 -!- augur_ has joined. 16:24:45 -!- atrapado has joined. 16:25:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:36:40 -!- lemurian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:44:13 -!- gamemanj has joined. 16:54:09 -!- password2 has joined. 17:02:43 -!- staffehn has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:15:38 -!- MoALTz_ has changed nick to MoALTz. 17:43:33 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:44:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43211&oldid=40674 * Rdebath * (+22070) New version with update to Debian Jessie 17:54:31 -!- variable has joined. 18:00:17 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:08:16 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:29:45 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:29:46 <HackEgo> thwackamacallit/A thwackamacallit is like a whatchamacallit, but more painful. See mapole. 18:30:16 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/thwackamacallit 18:30:18 <HackEgo> oerjan 18:30:37 <shachaf> I thought we were going with one space? 18:31:38 <shachaf> `` rgrep -l '\w\. [A-Z]' wisdom | wc -l 18:31:38 <HackEgo> 14 18:31:41 <shachaf> `` rgrep -l '\w\. [A-Z]' wisdom | wc -l 18:31:42 <HackEgo> 81 18:31:48 <shachaf> it's settled 18:31:51 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/thwackamacallit 18:31:54 <HackEgo> No output. 18:43:24 -!- Herbalist has joined. 18:48:25 -!- quietello has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:48:55 -!- quietello has joined. 18:49:50 <zzo38> SMITH# has a CITE instruction which just skips the next byte. Actually, 6502 also has such an instruction. 18:51:40 <oren_> isn't that just a double-width NOP 18:52:07 <oren_> or iow, a NOP with a byte argument 18:52:26 <zzo38> It is NOP with immediate addressing mode. 18:54:00 <zzo38> But 6502 also has NOP with zeropage addressing and NOP with absolute addressing; this can be used if you want the side-effect of reading from that address, or to waste extra cycles. 18:54:35 <zzo38> But both the immediate and non-immediate addressing might also be useful with self-modifying codes. 18:58:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:59:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: sure, those NOPS are very useful instructions 18:59:42 <b_jonas> I want more of them 19:00:16 <zzo38> It has enough NOP instructions, probably more than it needs 19:00:48 <zzo38> But it has no "store into immediate" instruction; the opcode that should be "store into immediate" is instead NOP immediate. 19:01:48 <b_jonas> sure 19:01:52 <b_jonas> store into immediate would be strange 19:02:19 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 19:04:12 <zzo38> I still would like it though and think it might be useful with some Famicom cartridges (those that map the bankswitching register into $8000-$FFFF and have no bus conflicts; if $C000-$FFFF is the fixed bank then a store immediate instruction in there has one irrelevant byte but still smaller and faster than otherwise to bankswitch) 19:04:30 <zzo38> I know that VAX has a "increment immediate" instruction. 19:08:23 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:23:16 -!- spiette has joined. 19:30:37 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:31:03 -!- nys has joined. 19:32:36 -!- lemurian has joined. 19:32:39 -!- lemurian has quit (Client Quit). 19:32:52 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:34:22 -!- augur has joined. 19:38:06 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:40:32 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:46:54 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Switching). 19:57:00 -!- adu has joined. 20:01:32 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:01:50 -!- FreeFull has quit (Changing host). 20:01:50 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:09:26 -!- staffehn has joined. 20:11:58 <oren_> things not being vertical-align: top by default is... insane. who would ever want their text to be at the top of the div, but align the divs according to the bottom of the text IN the div!?!?!? 20:14:16 <oren_> yet this is the default behaviour if you place several inline-block divs next to each other 20:18:18 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:18:19 <HackEgo> welkom/Welkom bij het internationaal centrum voor het ontwerpen en implementeren van esoterische programmeertalen! Voor meer informatie, bezoek de wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Voor de andere soort esoterie is er #esoteric op irc.dal.net.) 20:18:58 <shachaf> HackEgo: dank u 20:22:21 -!- hjulle has joined. 20:38:15 -!- spiette has joined. 20:45:03 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:48:57 <int-e> oren_: is that a serious question? 20:49:54 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:49:55 <HackEgo> elliot/No one was ever called Elliot. 20:50:14 -!- Herbalist has left ("WeeChat 1.2"). 20:50:18 <shachaf> `? eliot 20:50:19 <HackEgo> Eliot inverted cats, then Taneb stole his inversion. 20:52:02 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:52:03 <HackEgo> nvd/nvd is what Taneb calls himself when he wants to feel professional. 20:52:18 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:52:19 <HackEgo> php/php is the PigeonHole Principle 20:52:40 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:52:41 <HackEgo> lystrosaurus/lystrosaurus is a genus of Late Permian and Early Triassic Period dicynodont therapsids, which ruled the world around 250 million years ago. 20:52:46 <shachaf> very wise 20:53:14 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:53:15 <HackEgo> logs/I think you might mean !logs 20:53:18 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:53:19 <HackEgo> welcome.fi/Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric palvelimella irc.dal.net.) 20:53:31 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:53:32 <HackEgo> ​.doorstop/You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry. 20:56:05 <oren_> `? !logs 20:56:06 <HackEgo> ​!logs? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:56:52 <oren_> `eliott 20:56:53 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: eliott: not found 20:56:56 <oren_> `? eliott 20:56:56 <HackEgo> eliott? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:57:00 <oren_> `? elliott 20:57:01 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? He is also tire. And a lystrosaur. 20:57:14 <shachaf> `` for n in $(culprits .); do echo $n; done | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | xargs 20:57:16 <HackEgo> 1373 oerjan 614 elliott 466 shachaf 179 boily 177 GreyKnight 171 Jafet 165 kmc 157 fizzie 138 Roujo 130 Taneb 112 ais523 100 mroman_ 98 Bike 92 nortti 90 nooodl 85 Phantom_Hoover 67 Sgeo 64 mrhmouse 62 int-e 61 coppro 60 olsner 55 mroman 54 hagb4rd 52 monqy 52 Gregor 52 FireFly 50 c00kiemon5ter 49 itidus21 48 ThatOtherPe 20:58:13 -!- oren_ has changed nick to oren. 20:58:30 <shachaf> `` for n in $(culprits quotes); do echo $n; done | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | xargs 20:58:32 <HackEgo> 328 elliott 314 oerjan 75 kmc 72 shachaf 49 ais523 40 coppro 26 monqy 15 boily 14 GreyKnight 13 Phantom_Hoover 12 Taneb 11 shubshub 11 quintopia 11 Gregor 9 fizzie 8 mnoqy 8 FireFly 8 Fiora 8 elliott___ 7 Sgeo 7 ion 6 hagb4rd 5 ranc 5 olsner 5 elliott_ 4 RocketJSquirrel 4 Jafet 3 tswett 3 elliott__ 2 pikhq_ 2 nortti 2 20:58:37 <shachaf> `` for n in $(culprits bin); do echo $n; done | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | xargs 20:58:39 <HackEgo> 282 oerjan 170 shachaf 103 Jafet 97 elliott 80 fizzie 61 Roujo 38 kmc 37 nooodl 33 nortti 29 int-e 28 c00kiemon5ter 26 mrhmouse 26 ion 24 FireFly 23 boily 23 ais523 22 Taneb 22 mroman_ 20 GreyKnight 20 Bike 19 Sgeo 19 olsner 19 mroman 17 b_jonas 15 zzo38 14 Phantom_Hoover 13 Donger 11 FreeFull 10 tswett 10 Gregor 9 sss 20:59:59 -!- adu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:01:34 <int-e> `? wise 21:01:35 <HackEgo> wise? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:01:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:04:19 <shachaf> `le/rn wise/Uninstalling software installed by the Wise Installation Wizard is unwise. 21:04:23 <HackEgo> Learned «wise» 21:04:41 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:04:42 <HackEgo> friend/Friends make graphs together / La la la la 21:05:02 <shachaf> `` culprits wisdom/friend 21:05:05 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott oerjan 21:05:22 <FireFly> !logs 21:05:27 <FireFly> oh. 21:05:30 <FireFly> `logs 21:05:30 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found 21:07:01 <int-e> ``echo It\'s neither clockwise nor counterclockwise nor otherwise. >> wisdom/wise 21:07:01 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `echo: not found 21:07:10 <int-e> `` echo It\'s neither clockwise nor counterclockwise nor otherwise. >> wisdom/wise 21:07:11 <HackEgo> No output. 21:07:16 <int-e> `? wise 21:07:16 <HackEgo> Uninstalling software installed by the Wise Installation Wizard is unwise. \ It's neither clockwise nor counterclockwise nor otherwise. 21:09:18 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:09:18 <HackEgo> taneb/Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, and cube root of five genders. (See also: tanebventions) 21:09:39 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:10:00 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:10:01 <HackEgo> sgeolang/sgeolang currently is either J or Io. 21:11:31 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:11:40 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/ei\|or/n&/g' wisdom/sgeolang 21:11:41 <HackEgo> No output. 21:12:38 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:12:39 <HackEgo> amiga/Amiga is Spanish for a female friend. 21:13:26 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:13:27 <HackEgo> racoonspirator/A racoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in fur 21:13:48 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:13:49 <HackEgo> tanea/Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Yorj. 21:13:52 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:13:53 <HackEgo> narutoverse/narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1. Sgeo drives the bus. 21:14:01 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:14:02 <HackEgo> haskell/Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 21:14:52 <shachaf> `? newline 21:14:53 <HackEgo> newline? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:15:12 <shachaf> `le/rn newline/Newlines are le/rn's \ biggest weakness. 21:15:16 <HackEgo> Learned «newline» 21:20:13 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:25:24 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:32:51 <olsner> I hate it when I'm highlighted past my scrollback... though it's probably something I've seen on another computer already 21:33:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:35:54 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:39:24 -!- tromp_ has joined. 21:43:05 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:43:29 -!- tromp_ has joined. 21:45:06 -!- boily has joined. 21:46:08 <boily> @massages-loud 21:46:08 <lambdabot> coppro said 9h 28m 7s ago: that is trundle riiching with kokushi, and subsequently getting suucha riichied 21:46:34 <boily> coppro: chelloppro! BWAH AH AH AH AH! 21:49:09 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 21:50:05 <boily> `relcome Wallacoloo 21:50:09 <HackEgo> ​Wallacoloo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 21:50:26 <Wallacoloo> o_0 21:50:33 <Wallacoloo> That certainly is colorful 21:52:03 <fowl> I'm working on a programming language based on composition instead of inheritance, is that considered esoteric 21:52:52 <boily> Wallacoloo: it's one of our multiple welcome messages. we are a very welcomy channel ^^ 21:53:00 <boily> what brings you here? 21:53:13 <boily> fowl: only composition? do you have prototypes? 21:54:35 <fowl> boily: no, components describe data and hold shared behavior, an object is an instantiation of several components 21:55:58 -!- nszceta has joined. 21:56:05 <Wallacoloo> boily: My IRC client automatically logs me into a few channels including this one when I start it. But I discovered #esoteric through researching the simplest possible CPU implementations after buying a FPGA. 21:57:09 <boily> fowl: sounds like an ECS hth. probably not quite exactly esoteric, but as a primary organisational model, it may be interesting enough. go for it and see what happens! 21:57:19 <fowl> You can use it like prototypes though, clone object, add some behavioral components 21:58:23 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:58:24 <fowl> boily: the compositional object model exists by itself, I have a written a VM and smalltalk like language to interact with the object model 21:59:01 -!- nszceta has left. 21:59:10 <boily> @tell coppro apparently you're currently offline. please note I bwah ah ahed. ご機嫌よう and all that sort of thing. 21:59:11 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 21:59:18 <boily> fowl: neat. 21:59:56 <boily> Wallacoloo: what do you fpga? (what's the verb for "to code something on an FPGA"?) 22:00:33 <tromp_> how about synthesize? 22:02:03 <boily> too logical and pronunceable hth 22:02:43 <Wallacoloo> haha 22:03:24 <Wallacoloo> boily: I just bought it to mess around with. It was pretty cheap. All I've done so far is make some snake game for an led array. 22:04:17 <Wallacoloo> boily: But I want to a CPU with an architecture that doesn't implement any arithmetic, like BitBitJump, but hopefully with a narrower instruction width. And then I want to create a basic compiler for it and see how it actually performs in hardware. 22:04:30 <Wallacoloo> Still trying to figure out the instruction set details though. 22:04:41 <Wallacoloo> That should be "I want to *implement* a CPU" 22:04:46 <boily> implement underload! 22:04:47 <fowl> I may write another VM to target the same object model and see if I can reconcile the two 22:05:45 <b_jonas> Wallacoloo: do you mean like BytePusher? 22:06:21 <FireFly> Wallacoloo: what FPGA did you get? Can you recommend it? 22:06:26 <FireFly> I've been meaning to get one to play with as well 22:07:07 <Wallacoloo> @b_jonas: Yes, similar to BytePusher. 22:07:07 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list 22:07:46 <Wallacoloo> oops. 22:07:51 <b_jonas> I don't like those machines like BytePusher. Why wouldn't you add arithmetic, at least basic arithmetic? Hardware can do arithmetic efficiently, even fpgas can. 22:08:17 <Wallacoloo> Firefly: I bought a board built around the Cyclone V: http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=167&No=836 22:08:17 <Wallacoloo> I haven't done enough with it to know if I can recommend it or not. 22:08:39 <Wallacoloo> However, the toolchain works fine on Linux, which is a plus and something I'm not sure you get with all brands of FPGA 22:09:36 <tswett> I really should get a hobbyist FPGA. 22:12:33 <shachaf> `wisdom 22:12:34 <HackEgo> languabe/Languabes are edible and fun. They provide a quick implementation energy boost! 22:13:05 <Wallacoloo> b_jonas: When I saw ByteByteJump, I was impressed that the CPU didn't implement any actual *logic*, per-se. On top of not exposing any arithmetic to the programmer, it doesn't even need any adder circuitry to maintain a program counter or anything of the sort. So the exercise is in taking something unwieldy and making it do cool stuff. It certainly isn't meant to be practical. 22:14:12 <b_jonas> Wallacoloo: sure, it's just a personal preference. something with arithmetic can still be unwieldy. 22:14:32 <zzo38> TOGA computer should be simple even with discrete logic ICs 22:18:11 <zzo38> What I wanted to do is make a FPGA-on-FPGA, in order to do the following: [1] You do not need the vendor's proprietary software to program the FPGA. [2] You do not need a x86 computer to program the FPGA. [3] You do not need any particular model of FPGA. 22:18:20 <FireFly> Wallacoloo: oh, that's good to know (that the toolchain works with Linux) 22:20:01 <zzo38> And one more: [4] The FPGA is allowed to contain programs to reprogram itself at runtime. 22:25:49 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:28:31 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 22:28:31 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:33:09 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:47:59 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:54:09 <Sgeo_> "The search for two convicted murderers who escaped from a New York prison has gone cold since last week, when investigators found what they believe were several human tracks and a bloodhound possibly picked up a scent, according to a New York state official briefed on the investigation." 22:54:16 <Sgeo_> Not the most reassuring news ever 22:56:12 <olsner> somewhat reassuring for the escapees, but it might just be a ruse 22:59:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COHABITABLE CHICKEN). 23:01:20 -!- ky_castillos has joined. 23:01:50 -!- ky_castillos has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:35:18 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:37:19 <oren> STANLEY CUP FINAL IN <30 min 23:44:05 <tswett> Hmm, ByteByteJump. 23:44:14 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:44:41 <tswett> I think you could do booleans by having two memory addresses, where the instruction at each memory address is just a jump. 23:45:14 <tswett> Use the addresses themselves as the boolean values. To do a conditional branch, overwrite the instructions at those addresses with jumps to the memory locations of your choice. 23:47:32 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:56:46 -!- FreeFull has joined. 2015-06-16: 00:06:15 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:22:41 -!- boily has joined. 00:28:09 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:28:10 <HackEgo> mathematimu/A mathematimu is a quantum of mathematics. If you observe it, its codepoint can change. 00:28:25 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/mathematimu 00:28:26 <HackEgo> boily 00:28:36 <shachaf> boily: Good evening. 00:30:09 <boily> huh? I wrote mathematimu??? 00:30:18 <boily> bonshachafoir. 00:30:33 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed wisdom/mathematimu 00:30:34 <HackEgo> changeset: 4619:8de6e5355a40 \ user: HackBot \ date: Mon Apr 28 21:52:11 2014 +0000 \ summary: <boily> ` echo \'A mathematimu is a quantum of mathematics. If you observe it, its codepoint can change.\' >wisdom/mathematimu 00:30:38 <shachaf> netcraft confirms it 00:31:10 <boily> oh well. if it is so, it is so. 00:32:44 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:32:45 <HackEgo> accounting/<BAL|FSV> = 0 00:33:06 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:33:07 <HackEgo> brainf**k/There is no such thing as brainf**k. You may be thinking of brainfuck. 00:33:15 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:33:16 <HackEgo> who/Who cares about ancient cases anyway? 00:33:22 <boily> `wisdom 00:33:23 <HackEgo> braid theory/Braid theory is the extremely twisted theory of braids. 00:34:05 <boily> `? AmigaMML 00:34:05 <HackEgo> Only fools such as zzo38 and so on try to use AmigaMML on a PC. Real Men try to use AmigaMML on a Amiga computer. \ https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/amigamml/wiki/Frequently_and_unfrequently_asked_questions 00:34:17 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:34:18 <HackEgo> indexed monad/Indexed monads are just monads on an indexed category. \ Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors. 00:34:19 <tswett> Let's see what wisdom the neural nets have for us today. 00:36:42 * tswett samples the net and searches it for wise things. 00:37:40 <boily> `` cat emoticons/gaaan 00:37:43 <HackEgo> ​ｶﾞ~(ﾟﾛﾟ;)~ﾝ 00:37:50 <boily> ... 00:37:52 <boily> ...??? 00:38:19 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:38:20 <HackEgo> nortti/nortti boy. very nortti boy. 00:38:23 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:38:24 <HackEgo> pietbot/Pietbot is the only thing that can defeat fungot. 00:38:27 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:38:27 <tswett> This looks pretty wise: 00:38:28 <HackEgo> ngevd/ngevd is a fake wisdom entry because having an actual infinite file in wisdom/ makes all manner of stuff bloody awkward. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ also tswett‼ 00:38:29 <tswett> 19:10:42: <Dulnes> And it on such quite with some remember piece as which has mUring 00:38:45 <tswett> Have we ever had a person called Dulnes? 00:38:53 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:38:54 <HackEgo> mdude/MDude is just a dude, with an M's courage. 00:39:05 <tswett> Holy cow, Dulnes shows up twice in near succession. They must be a real person. 00:39:22 <boily> tswellott. they are a real person. 00:39:32 <tswett> Yeah, I looked it up. Dulnes is definitely real. 00:41:09 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:41:24 <oren> yeah. Dulnes was on when I first joined 00:41:28 <boily> `? thwackamacallit 00:41:29 <HackEgo> A thwackamacallit is like a whatchamacallit, but more painful. See mapole. 00:42:37 <tswett> 07:44:06: <J_Arcane> instead if implementation: with an adures to do in the laptopie sense Are what I can't change if you make it nice 00:42:38 <tswett> Very wise. 00:42:56 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:42:57 <HackEgo> ursala/~&al?\~&ar ~&aa^&~&afahPRPfafatPJPRY+ ~&farlthlriNCSPDPDrlCS2DlrTS2J,^|J/~& ~&rt!=+ ^= ~&s+ ~&H(-+.|=&lrr;,|=&lrl;,|=&ll;+-, ~&rgg&& ~&irtPFXlrjrXPS; ~&lrK2tkZ2g&& ~&llrSL2rDrlPrrPljXSPTSL)+-, 00:43:05 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/ursala 00:43:07 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott oerjan olsner 00:43:09 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:43:09 <HackEgo> funciton/A funciton is the number of burgers to eat when I get one. 00:43:15 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:43:16 <HackEgo> mapole/A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. 00:45:09 <boily> ♪ BONG ♪ new version! 00:47:07 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:47:07 <HackEgo> comedogenic/comedogenic is something that causes comedy when applied to the skin, e.g. an accelerated cream pie in parabolic motion. 00:47:17 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:47:18 <HackEgo> diet/People go on diets to loose weight instead of gaining. It gives them a consistant diet. 00:47:32 <shachaf> `culrpits wisdom/diet 00:47:32 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: culrpits: not found 00:47:39 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/diet # scow 00:47:40 <HackEgo> No output. 00:47:41 <shachaf> Oops. 00:47:45 <boily> `culprits wisdom/comedogenic 00:47:46 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull boily 00:47:47 <shachaf> Drat and double drat. 00:48:05 <boily> gosh darn it to fungot, eh? 00:48:05 <fungot> boily: well i didnt cum on calamari's face facts, and realise that you're going to insist scheme doesn't have the compiled/ interpreted split personality issues like gambit, bigloo significantly, and has an execution cutoff to halt after a specific number of moves 00:48:14 <boily> fungot: EW! 00:48:14 <fungot> boily: you work with syntax in plt's module system that sort of system. 00:48:27 <shachaf> am i missing a pun? 00:48:31 <boily> fungot: no I don't, you depraved pervert! 00:48:31 <fungot> boily: i didn't know that works in wine, right? :) 00:48:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:48:48 <boily> shachaf: fungot has sexual activities with tentacled sea creatures. 00:48:48 <fungot> boily: there's also infinite " other instructions". the weird thing is they use the same identifier in patterns ( which is horrible. you need to 00:48:49 <shachaf> oerjan: any reason not to s/oo/o/? 00:48:55 <boily> hellørjan! 00:49:14 <oerjan> wat 00:49:25 <boily> ankor? 00:49:37 <oerjan> *+g 00:51:55 <oerjan> shachaf: well for one thing there are no oos around hth 00:52:12 <shachaf> `? diet 00:52:13 <HackEgo> People go on diets to loose weight instead of gaining. It gives them a consistant diet. 00:52:25 <shachaf> i guess i am 00:52:28 <shachaf> consistant 00:52:31 <shachaf> what's all this 00:52:37 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/diet 00:52:38 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott oerjan FireFly 00:53:16 <FireFly> I think I need to figure out if I can make weechat not highlight me when there's formatting characters in the nick 00:53:40 <FireFly> Also I can't remember editing that, huh 00:54:37 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed wisdom/diet | grep summary | tail -n1 00:54:40 <HackEgo> summary: <FireFly> learn diets People go on diets to loose weight instead of gaining. It gives them a consistant diet. 00:54:48 <oerjan> shachaf: i am pretty sure FireFly is the one to ask hth 00:55:00 <shachaf> oerjan: you touched it last hth 00:55:17 <FireFly> I have a feeling the misspellings reference something in the channel at the point of creation 00:55:26 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:55:26 <oerjan> shachaf: only trivially http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log/03ab4bf21ad7/wisdom/diet 00:55:27 <HackEgo> cyberdrone/cyberdrone is a drone flying in cyberspace. 00:55:33 <oren> CHI 0-0 TBL 1P over 00:55:37 <oerjan> FireFly: me too 00:55:38 <FireFly> but it should probably be removed; it seems silly 00:55:40 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:55:41 <HackEgo> burlesque/Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque) 00:55:54 <shachaf> FireFly: can't have silly things in wisdom/ 00:55:56 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:55:57 <HackEgo> fomething/fomething denotes the obsolescence of clinical insanity. 00:56:06 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:56:07 <HackEgo> category/Categories are just a special case of bicategories. 00:56:34 <oerjan> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2014-02-19#231954metasepia 00:56:37 <oerjan> hth 00:56:54 <FireFly> I feel less bad now 00:58:20 <FireFly> `quote 1 00:58:24 <HackEgo> 1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" 00:58:44 <shachaf> `wisdom 1 00:58:45 <HackEgo> lifthrasiir/lifthrasiir is shunned by the rest of his country for being no good at League of Legends. 00:59:00 <shachaf> `wisdom 2 00:59:01 <HackEgo> lorem ipsum/Business Internet the it China Product Product NATO 00:59:07 <shachaf> `wisdom 3 00:59:08 <HackEgo> ​.doorstop/You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry. 00:59:09 <shachaf> `wisdom 4 00:59:10 <HackEgo> kallisti/kallisti is a former prophet swearing off his pastry deity. 00:59:15 <shachaf> `wisdom 5 00:59:15 <HackEgo> botlop/botlops are the core of botsentiences. Sapience is scheduled for the next release. 00:59:31 <FireFly> `wisdom takes a parameter? 00:59:40 <shachaf> @quote Jafet unsafeCoerce 00:59:40 <lambdabot> Jafet says: unsafeCoerce takes any argument. AND IT WINS THAT ARGUMENT. 01:00:44 <oerjan> but at what PRICE Jafet 01:00:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:01:59 <oren> `? unsafeCoerce 01:01:59 <HackEgo> unsafeCoerce? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:02:22 <oren> is unsafeCoerce basically a pointer cast? it sounds like it could be one? 01:02:34 <Taneb> oren, more or less I think 01:02:44 <boily> Phellontom_Hoover. helloren. FireFelloy. Tanelle. 01:02:45 <Taneb> There are some weirdities with the garbage collector though 01:03:10 <shachaf> :t unsafeCoerce 01:03:11 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘unsafeCoerce’ 01:03:16 <shachaf> oops 01:03:18 <boily> oren: it's an evil Haskell function. it does evil things to types. 01:03:30 <shachaf> :t Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce 01:03:31 <lambdabot> a -> b 01:03:35 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:03:36 <HackEgo> esoteric/This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet. 01:03:57 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:03:58 <HackEgo> lens/A lens is just a store comonad coalgebra. 01:04:05 <fowl> `wisdom 01:04:06 <HackEgo> whom/See: who 01:04:21 <fowl> Now I know 01:04:34 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:04:35 <HackEgo> freefull/FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. 01:04:39 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:04:40 <HackEgo> doodad/Doodads are just duoids in the category of endofunctors. 01:04:59 <boily> `wisdom 01:05:00 <HackEgo> ​`?/`? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:05:18 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:05:19 <HackEgo> kill/ 01:05:21 <boily> fowl: I didn't porthello you. fellowl. 01:05:27 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:05:28 <HackEgo> category-helpdesk/category-helpdesk is a helpdesk with identity and composition. This channel isn't it. 01:05:46 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/category-helpdesk 01:05:47 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull boily 01:06:09 <fowl> boily: wat 01:06:16 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:06:17 <HackEgo> til/TIL that TIL means Today I Learned 01:06:28 <boily> `` ls wisdom/*ello* 01:06:29 <HackEgo> wisdom/cello \ wisdom/hello 01:06:36 <boily> `? hello 01:06:37 <HackEgo> hello hello hello, what's all this then? 01:06:40 <shachaf> oerjan: Is that what TIL means in Norwegian? twh 01:06:43 <FreeFull> Wait 01:06:45 <boily> hmm... what was it again? 01:06:45 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:06:46 <HackEgo> finnish/Finnish suomalaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapeliittaan. Ei saa peittää. Parasta ennen! 01:06:47 <FreeFull> Why didn't that message highlight me 01:06:51 <tswett> `? cello 01:06:52 <HackEgo> ​The high level stucture of Cello projects is inspired by /Haskell/, while the syntax and semantics are inspired by /Python/ and /Obj-C/. 01:06:54 <FreeFull> It had my nick in it 01:07:04 <boily> fowl: it's a hello portmanteau. a porthello, if you wish. 01:07:14 <FreeFull> Is hackego doing something funky like inserting ^O in the middle of the nicks? 01:07:33 <FreeFull> `? boily 01:07:34 <HackEgo> boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. 01:07:38 <Taneb> `unidecode FreeFull 01:07:39 <HackEgo> ​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+0046 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER F] [U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0046 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER F] [U+0075 LATIN SMALL LETTER U] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] 01:08:00 <Taneb> It does not seem like it 01:08:01 <Taneb> This is odd 01:08:20 <FreeFull> Taneb: Your message did highlight me 01:08:35 <FreeFull> `culprits wisdom/category-helpdesk 01:08:36 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull boily 01:08:37 <oerjan> shachaf: no:til = en:to, hth 01:08:39 <FreeFull> And that doesn't 01:08:42 <shachaf> But the danger was past -- they had landed at last, / With their boxes, portmanteaus, and bags: / Yet at first sight the crew / Were not pleased with the view, / Which consisted to chasms and crags. 01:09:16 <shachaf> oerjan: except when it's en:for? 01:09:18 <FreeFull> `wisdom 01:09:20 <HackEgo> misspellings of croissant/misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:09:27 <boily> FreeFull: I'm being pinged. 01:09:30 <shachaf> or en:of 01:09:32 <FreeFull> boily: Weird 01:09:35 <shachaf> en:of is en:of 01:09:38 <FreeFull> And sorry about pinging you 01:09:43 <Taneb> `culprits wisdom/Taneb 01:09:45 <HackEgo> No output. 01:09:46 <boily> (also, being crawled upon by an adventurous ant. it tickles. go away, ant.) 01:09:50 <Taneb> `culprits wisdom/taneb 01:09:51 <HackEgo> Taneb oerjan oerjan elliott shachaf boily oerjan ais523 ais523 shachaf elliott FreeFull shachaf shachaf oerjan oerjan FreeFull oerjan FreeFull Taneb shachaf shachaf nitia 01:10:01 <tswett> Eventually I want to make a bot called "autochat" which predicts what people would say and talks on their behalf. 01:10:02 <Taneb> That starts pinging me then gives up 01:10:02 <FreeFull> What is pl:powyłamywane? 01:10:08 <Taneb> I think it is messing with my client 01:10:17 * boily mapoles shachaf for the vile pun 01:11:00 <boily> FreeFull: according to Google, it's en:powyłamywane. 01:11:55 <FreeFull> boily: Google clearly doesn't know its stuff 01:12:21 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm not sure exactly when it would be en:for 01:12:40 <oerjan> shachaf: oh hm mail perhaps 01:12:45 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:13:09 <shachaf> http://blogs.transparent.com/norwegian/the-norwegian-word-til/ 01:14:28 <oren> til? today I learned? 01:14:39 <boily> til til is til. 01:15:45 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:15:46 <HackEgo> ssstosis/ssstosis is a disease causing false identities 01:15:46 <oren> `? til 01:15:47 <HackEgo> TIL that TIL means Today I Learned 01:15:55 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:15:56 <HackEgo> hipchat/hipchat is a chat where you can communicate solely by using meme-emoticons but shouldn't. 01:15:57 <FreeFull> `wisdom 01:15:58 <HackEgo> color/Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulh 01:16:02 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:16:03 <HackEgo> hand/A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. 01:16:05 <FreeFull> `? till 01:16:05 <HackEgo> till? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:16:24 <FreeFull> `ls wisdom 01:16:24 <HackEgo> As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead. 01:16:34 <FreeFull> Ah, good point 01:16:38 <tswett> I'll be so great. It'll act just like fungot, responding exactly when its nick is mentioned, but it'll have a "personality" setting you can use to make it imitate any person. 01:16:38 <fungot> tswett: it makes sense 01:17:15 <FreeFull> Dammit HackEgo, I'm doing it in private now 01:17:20 <FreeFull> Why are you giving the same message 01:17:27 <tswett> You wouldn't be restricted to people who have actually ever spoken. You could set the personality to "boiljan" and it would figure out how a person would speak if they had that nick. 01:17:53 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:17:54 <HackEgo> c#/C Pound is Java's good twin. 01:17:55 <boily> ^^ 01:18:04 <boily> tswett: great idea! :D 01:18:44 <boily> while set to boiljan, it should speak in Norwécois hth 01:18:50 <oerjan> shachaf: i disagree with the "Erik skal ikke spise dessert til jul." example, i'd interpret that as en:for, almost the opposite meaning. 01:19:11 <oren> `? hockey 01:19:11 <HackEgo> hockey? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:19:25 <shachaf> oerjan: christmas isn't in july hth 01:20:36 <oerjan> <FreeFull> Why are you giving the same message <-- i predicted this problem when they changed it hth 01:20:41 <tswett> If you set the personality to HackEgo, it'll almost certainly say the sort of things HackEgo says. 01:20:47 <oren> `` le/rn hockey/Hockey is a winter sport played from october to june. 01:20:49 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm sure yu'l agree that that that's nonsense 01:20:50 <HackEgo> Learned «hockey» 01:20:55 <oerjan> `` url wisdom # try this 01:20:57 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom 01:21:09 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 01:21:13 <oerjan> FreeFull: ^ 01:21:40 <oerjan> FreeFull: or use the wisdom.pdf in topic 01:21:57 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:21:58 <HackEgo> ​☃/☃ brrr... 01:22:11 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/☃ 01:22:12 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull FireFly 01:22:17 <shachaf> wow 01:22:21 <shachaf> long history for a short entry 01:22:34 <oren> `? perl 01:22:35 <HackEgo> Perl is the Perfect Emacs Rewriting Language 01:22:42 <oren> `? python 01:22:43 <HackEgo> python? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:23:04 <oerjan> shachaf: no:jul is cognate to en:yule hth 01:23:06 <oren> `? ruby 01:23:07 <HackEgo> ruby? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:23:43 <shachaf> oh, it was just people being annoying with revert wars 01:23:51 <shachaf> oerjan: i figured that out hth 01:23:59 <FireFly> I don't remember creating that entry either 01:24:08 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed wisdom/☃ | grep summary | tail -n+9 01:24:10 <HackEgo> summary: <FireFly> learn \xe2\x98\x83 brrr... 01:24:18 <shachaf> FireFly: sounds like you meant to use le/rn anyway 01:24:32 <FireFly> I don't think it was around then 01:24:47 <shachaf> Sounds like you meant to create it and then use it. 01:25:12 <shachaf> `translate en no july 01:25:12 <HackEgo> This google api no longer exists. 01:25:18 <FireFly> `` for f in wisdom/*; do culprits "$f" | grep -q ireFl && echo "$f"; done 01:25:21 <FreeFull> oerjan: Yeah, the unicode junk breaks it anyway in the terminal 01:25:36 <FireFly> No? hm 01:25:43 <oren> `` le/rn ruby/Ruby is a programming language from Japan, that Eventually decided to support non-ascii characters. 01:25:44 <shachaf> patience, young firefly 01:25:47 <FireFly> Oh wait 01:25:58 <zzo38> How to make MIME-heading-parsing in a C code? 01:25:59 <FireFly> Someone symlink'd Taneb to /dev/urandom again, didn't they? 01:26:05 <shachaf> No. 01:26:08 <FireFly> oh wait, but that shouldn't matter 01:26:21 <FireFly> I'm only looking at the history anyway 01:26:27 <HackEgo> wisdom/☃ 01:26:28 <HackEgo> Learned «ruby» 01:26:53 <oerjan> <shachaf> oh, it was just people being annoying with revert wars <-- i think maybe the old version of `culprits worked better for ignoring those? 01:27:12 <FireFly> `` cat bin/culprits 01:27:12 <HackEgo> hg log --removed "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs 01:27:16 <shachaf> oerjan: It showed you half. 01:27:23 <oren> zzo38: use strchr to separate the parts, then use stncmp to figure out the mime 01:28:05 <boily> FireFly: Taneb is unsymlinkable hth 01:28:18 <FireFly> tdmh 01:28:19 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 01:28:37 <boily> Wallachelloo! 01:29:17 <oerjan> oren: why are you using le/rn when learn would work just fine :( 01:29:45 <shachaf> oerjan: because le/rn always works 01:30:06 <Wallacoloo> Howdy doody, boily dudey? 01:30:11 <tswett> `? reflection 01:30:12 <HackEgo> cat.reflection. 01:30:17 <tswett> Still works. 01:30:31 <tswett> Hmmm. 01:30:43 <tswett> `run cat wisdom/reflectio{n,n,n} 01:30:43 <HackEgo> cat.wisdom/reflection.wisdom/reflection.wisdom/reflection.cat.wisdom/reflection.wisdom/reflection.wisdom/reflection.cat.wisdom/reflection.wisdom/reflection.wisdom/reflection. 01:30:51 <tswett> Yup. 01:31:08 <oerjan> shachaf: only until someone forgets the s stripping twnh 01:31:22 <boily> Wallacoloo: you're getting the hang of it :D 01:31:39 <Wallacoloo> hahaha 01:31:39 <oerjan> i suppose technically it still works then 01:32:10 <boily> Wallacoloo: please note that there are some grammatical exceptions. please use the vocative case when helloing Taneb hth 01:33:23 <oren> CHI 0 - 0 TBL 1P 10:10 01:33:49 <oerjan> boily: vocative case? in what language? 01:34:17 <boily> oerjan: Tanelle. somewhat inspired by Latin, IIRC. 01:34:25 <boily> oren: TBL? 01:34:40 <oren> Tampa Bay Lightning 01:34:56 <Wallacoloo> So "vocative" essentially just means "no verbs", right? I'm not too knowledgeable of linguistics 01:35:03 <oerjan> boily: aha 01:35:09 <oren> vocative means "calling" 01:35:46 <oren> 'Clemens Grumionem vocat' -> "clemens calls grumio" 01:36:26 <oren> -- to the extent that I remember high school Latin class 01:36:46 <boily> Ô Canada ← our most famous vocative. 01:37:02 <boily> also, go Maple Leafs! 01:38:38 <oren> So vocative is a special declension of the noun used when calling someone 01:39:03 -!- variable has joined. 01:39:44 <oerjan> oren: neither Clemens nor Grumionem is vocative in that sentence, anyway 01:40:04 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:40:06 <oren> right 01:40:21 <oerjan> also, iirc neither of those nouns has a difference if they were 01:43:12 <oren> A good example of a noun in vocative is Brutus in 'et tu, Brute?' 01:44:15 <oerjan> yeah 01:45:22 <oren> CHI 1 - 0 TBL !!! 02:00:19 <oren> 2P over 02:05:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HOMOTOPIC CHICKEN). 02:06:38 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:08:47 <oerjan> <shachaf> I thought we were going with one space? <-- i thought the format rules only applied to quotes 02:12:46 -!- oren has changed nick to oren\n. 02:16:19 <shachaf> oerjan: I was talking about the wisdom rules. 02:16:43 <oren\n> wisdom rules! 02:17:18 <oerjan> `? wise 02:17:19 <HackEgo> Uninstalling software installed by the Wise Installation Wizard is unwise. \ It's neither clockwise nor counterclockwise nor otherwise. 02:17:36 * oerjan swats int-e -----### 02:18:03 <shachaf> the installer is called unwise.exe, by the way 02:18:12 <oerjan> what's the easiest way of joining lines in a file? 02:18:23 <oren\n> s/\n//? 02:18:34 <oerjan> oren\n: no, doesn't work 02:19:06 <oerjan> you _can_ do it with sed, but it's too damn awkward to remember 02:19:07 <lifthrasiir> tr -d '\n' 02:19:09 <lifthrasiir> probably. 02:19:18 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: it needs to work in place 02:19:42 <shachaf> `` for f in $(cat wisdom/wise); do echo -n "$f "; done | sed 's/ $//' # hth 02:19:42 <HackEgo> Uninstalling software installed by the Wise Installation Wizard is unwise. It's neither clockwise nor counterclockwise nor otherwise. 02:19:44 <lifthrasiir> tr -d '\n' < file | sponge file? 02:20:03 <oerjan> shachaf: not in place hth 02:20:11 <oerjan> `which sponge 02:20:12 <HackEgo> No output. 02:20:18 <lifthrasiir> moreutils for the win. 02:20:40 <oren\n> I usually just write my own utils when i need something 02:20:49 <shachaf> oerjan: what's a delicious norwegian food i could attempt to cook 02:21:08 <oren\n> howver, this policy often causes me to wirte many similar prgrams 02:21:27 <oerjan> shachaf: we're not big on veggie food 02:21:36 <oerjan> do you eat fish 02:21:39 <shachaf> no 02:22:15 <oerjan> milk? 02:22:32 <shachaf> yes 02:22:55 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:22:56 <HackEgo> bonvenon/Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno kaj ellaso de esoteraj programlingvoj! Por pli da informado, vizitu la Viki-on: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Por la alia speco de esotero, iru al #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) 02:23:16 <oren\n> esperanto 02:23:27 <oerjan> ok then try rice porridge with sugar, cinnamon and butter 02:23:30 <oren\n> er, is it? 02:23:36 <shachaf> that's norwegian? 02:23:40 <tswett> Looks like Esperanto. 02:24:16 <oren\n> hmm. the aj - oj adjective agreement would appear to imply it. 02:24:28 <shachaf> not sure what esperanto food is hth 02:24:38 <oren\n> but do any of the other esperantoids have it? 02:25:02 <oerjan> shachaf: also save some to make rice cream for next day's dessert. 02:25:34 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm afraid i won't be eating dessert til july 02:26:16 <oerjan> darn. 02:26:40 <oerjan> shachaf: just wait 2 weeks, then. 02:27:22 <shachaf> christmas in july 02:27:56 <oerjan> shachaf: oh even more traditional is sour cream porridge. (same condiments.) 02:28:12 <shachaf> @google sour cream porridge 02:28:13 <lambdabot> https://www.sofn.com/norwegian_culture/featured_recipes/rommegrot/ 02:28:19 <shachaf> confirmed 02:28:53 <oerjan> it's a bit of an acquired taste though. well for me anyway. 02:29:06 <shachaf> I have sour cream, flour, salt, and cinnamon, but no milk. 02:29:55 <oerjan> oh and i recall as a child eating butter porridge (smørgrøt) 02:30:13 <oerjan> but it's hard to do any of them without milk. 02:30:34 <shachaf> @google butter porridge norwegian 02:30:35 <lambdabot> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B8mmegr%C3%B8t 02:30:42 <shachaf> foiled again 02:30:42 <oerjan> sour cream waffles is also traditional. 02:31:09 <oerjan> i think it's basically sour cream porridge with butter instead? not sure though. 02:31:12 <tswett> fungot: remind me how coherent you sound? 02:31:12 <fungot> tswett: i'm trying to use yacc for simpler jobs." 02:31:31 <tswett> fungot: that was syntactically correct. Are you usually that way for sentences on the order of eight words? 02:31:31 <fungot> tswett: it's nice in theory 02:31:45 <tswett> fungot: come on, gimme something slightly longer. 02:31:45 <fungot> tswett: i mean, er, " singularity" experiment. 02:31:53 <tswett> fungot: eh, that'll do. 02:33:06 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:35:16 <oren\n> `? ようこそ 02:35:17 <HackEgo> ​ようこそ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:35:22 <oren\n> `ようこそ 02:35:22 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ようこそ: not found 02:35:31 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:35:31 <HackEgo> pi/pi is a very round number. 02:35:37 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:35:38 <HackEgo> gopher/Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. But zzo38 thought of it first. 02:35:39 <oren\n> `youkoso 02:35:40 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: youkoso: not found 02:35:52 <oren\n> `welcome 02:35:53 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 02:35:58 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:35:59 <HackEgo> tmyk/tmyk the more overfilled your brain gets. 02:36:09 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:36:10 <HackEgo> oregon/Oregon is the home of Oregano. Gregor used to take care of the color scheme, but then he left. 02:37:49 <oren\n> `? color 02:37:49 <HackEgo> ​Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. 02:37:54 <oren\n> `? colour 02:37:55 <HackEgo> ​Colour is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. 02:37:56 <oerjan> `` sed -i '1N;s/\n/ /' wisdom/wise 02:37:57 <HackEgo> No output. 02:38:00 <oerjan> `? wise 02:38:01 <HackEgo> Uninstalling software installed by the Wise Installation Wizard is unwise. It's neither clockwise nor counterclockwise nor otherwise. 02:38:31 <oren\n> CHI 2 - 0 TBL !!!! 5 min left 02:39:17 <fowl> Am I in any quotes 02:39:18 <tswett> pi/pi is indeed a very round number. 02:39:30 <oren\n> @quote fowl 02:39:31 <lambdabot> No quotes match. And you call yourself a Rocket Surgeon! 02:39:39 <oren\n> @quote oren 02:39:40 <lambdabot> No quotes match. :( 02:39:43 <oren\n> @quote orin 02:39:43 <lambdabot> workbean says: just write boring code in boring frameworks like Django in boring languages like Python. Don't do exciting things like peeing in the sink. 02:39:48 <oren\n> @quote orin 02:39:48 <lambdabot> zeeeeeee says: so aside from the refactoring, there's no other (major) improvements i can make to my program? 02:39:59 <tswett> @quote tswett 02:39:59 <lambdabot> No quotes match. Take a stress pill and think things over. 02:40:02 <tswett> Gasp. 02:40:06 <oren\n> @quote orin> 02:40:06 <lambdabot> No quotes match. That's something I cannot allow to happen. 02:40:08 <tswett> My ego is devastated. 02:40:18 <oren\n> @quote orin 02:40:18 <lambdabot> int-e says: What, unsafeCoerce# is kind-preserving? how boring :/ 02:40:20 <tswett> @quote fungot 02:40:20 <lambdabot> No quotes match. That's something I cannot allow to happen. 02:40:28 <oren\n> @quote lambdabot 02:40:28 <lambdabot> lambdabot says: In the definition of `yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw': 02:40:57 <oren\n> `quote oren 02:40:57 <HackEgo> 1227) <oren> when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? <vanila> yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? <oren> apparently not santa claus <zzo38> Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1228) <{\[oren]|}> ｚｚｏ３８：ｉｔ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｃａｕｓｅ　ｐｒｏｂｌｅｍｓ　ｂｙ 02:41:03 <oren\n> `quote fowl 02:41:04 <HackEgo> 1185) <fowl> one day we'll be able to put evil people inside mirrors and throw them into space like superman 2 02:41:26 <oren\n> `quote fowl 02:41:26 <HackEgo> 1185) <fowl> one day we'll be able to put evil people inside mirrors and throw them into space like superman 2 02:41:44 <fowl> I'm immortal! 02:41:55 <oren\n> `` quote oren 02:41:56 <HackEgo> 1227) <oren> when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? <vanila> yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? <oren> apparently not santa claus <zzo38> Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1228) <{\[oren]|}> ｚｚｏ３８：ｉｔ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｃａｕｓｅ　ｐｒｏｂｌｅｍｓ　ｂｙ 02:42:34 <oren\n> `` quote oren | sed 's/[^0-9]\+/ /g' 02:42:35 <HackEgo> 1227 38 \ 1228 \ 1238 02:42:44 <oren\n> `` quote 1238 02:42:45 <HackEgo> 1238) <oren> is instant coffee stronger than espresso? I think it must be... [...] <oren> Ohh.... so apparently the jar says one scoop of powder per mug, I assumed an equal amount of powder and boiling water 02:43:12 <oren\n> `` quote 1228 02:43:13 <HackEgo> 1228) <{\[oren]|}> ｚｚｏ３８：ｉｔ　ｗｉｌｌ　ｃａｕｓｅ　ｐｒｏｂｌｅｍｓ　ｂｙ　ｂｅｉｎｇ　ｈｉｌａｒｉｏｕｓ 02:43:25 <oerjan> oren\n: have you recovered from that coffee yet 02:43:28 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:43:29 <oren\n> yah 02:43:29 <HackEgo> welcome/Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 02:43:32 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:43:33 <HackEgo> ruddy/HackEgo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:43:38 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:43:39 <HackEgo> supermarioperator/supermarioperator is one of many confusing operators as defined in Control.Plumbers.Monad. Your sanity is in another castle. 02:44:07 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/ruddy 02:44:08 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott oerjan 02:44:16 <oerjan> wtf 02:44:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:45:34 <shachaf> `` hg log wisdom/ruddy | grep summary 02:45:35 <HackEgo> summary: <oerjan> echo "HackEgo? \xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0\xe2\x80\x8b_o)/\xc2\xaf" >wisdom/ruddy 02:46:03 <oren\n> ＴＢＬ ｐｕｌｌ　ｇｏａｌｉｅ！ 02:46:10 <oren\n> ２　ｍａｎ　ａｄｖ！ 02:46:18 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:46:19 <HackEgo> oerjan/Your famous evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. 02:46:30 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/oerjan 02:46:31 <HackEgo> shachaf oerjan shachaf oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull shachaf shachaf ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull oerjan FreeFull oerjan FreeFull shachaf shachaf shachaf nitia 02:47:21 <oren\n> ３０　ｓｅｃｏｎｄｓ　ｌｅｆｔ！ 02:48:12 * oerjan thinks oren\n is somewhat excited 02:48:36 -!- llue has joined. 02:48:39 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:48:40 <HackEgo> footnote 8/Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes? 02:48:52 <oerjan> `? footnote 7 02:48:53 <HackEgo> footnote 7? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:48:57 <oerjan> NO 02:49:13 <oren\n> ah pp over 02:49:29 <shachaf> oerjan: ok, it doesn't have to be norwegian 02:49:35 <shachaf> what sort of thing should i eat 02:50:03 <oren\n> ＴＢＬ　ｈａｖｅ　ｔｏ　ｓｃｏｒｅ　ｔｗｉｃｅ　ｉｎ　１：３０ 02:50:09 <oerjan> brussel sprouts hth 02:50:34 <oerjan> *+s 02:50:48 <oren\n> ＣＨＩ ａｒｅ　ａｌｍｏｓｔ　ｃｅｒｔａｉｎｌｙ　ｇｏｎｎａ　ｗｉｎ　ｎｏｗ 02:51:13 <oren\n> ２５　ｓｅｃ 02:51:39 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:51:41 * oerjan prepares a tranquilizer gun 02:51:44 <shachaf> oerjan: tdnh 02:51:50 <shachaf> oerjan: what delicious thing 02:52:01 <oerjan> shachaf: try a flan hth 02:52:35 <oren\n> OVER! ＣＨＩＣＡＧＯ ＢＬＡＣＫＨＡＷＫＳ ＷＩＮ ＴＨＥ ＳＴＡＮＬＥＹ ＣＵＰ！ 02:52:42 <oerjan> (also traditional norwegian afaiac) 02:54:00 * oerjan shoots oren\n 02:54:29 <oren\n> they won! they woooouuuuunnnmnmn.... 02:54:37 <oren\n> \me falls over 02:55:05 <oerjan> `unicode bullet 02:55:06 <HackEgo> ​• 02:55:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:55:25 <oerjan> hm wait 02:55:31 <oerjan> `unicode arrow 02:55:36 <HackEgo> U+02C2 MODIFIER LETTER LEFT ARROWHEAD \ UTF-8: cb 82 UTF-16BE: 02c2 Decimal: &#706; \ ˂ \ Category: Sk (Symbol, Modifier) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+02C3 MODIFIER LETTER RIGHT ARROWHEAD \ UTF-8: cb 83 UTF-16BE: 02c3 Decimal: &#707; \ ˃ \ Category: Sk (Symbol, Modifier) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+02C4 MODIFIER LETTER UP ARROWHE 02:55:51 <oerjan> `unicode RIGHT ARROWHEAD 02:55:52 <HackEgo> U+02C3 MODIFIER LETTER RIGHT ARROWHEAD \ UTF-8: cb 83 UTF-16BE: 02c3 Decimal: &#707; \ ˃ \ Category: Sk (Symbol, Modifier) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+02F2 MODIFIER LETTER LOW RIGHT ARROWHEAD \ UTF-8: cb b2 UTF-16BE: 02f2 Decimal: &#754; \ ˲ \ Category: Sk (Symbol, Modifier) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+0350 COMBINING RIGHT ARROW 02:56:22 <oerjan> is it telling me it only exists as a modifier 02:56:55 <oerjan> `` unicode arrow | grep -v '[a-z]' 02:56:56 <HackEgo> U+02C2 MODIFIER LETTER LEFT ARROWHEAD \ ˂ \ \ U+02C3 MODIFIER LETTER RIGHT ARROWHEAD \ ˃ \ \ U+02C4 MODIFIER LETTER UP ARROWHEAD \ ˄ \ \ U+02C5 MODIFIER LETTER DOWN ARROWHEAD \ ˅ \ \ U+02EF MODIFIER LETTER LOW DOWN ARROWHEAD \ ˯ \ \ U+02F0 MODIFIER LETTER LOW UP ARROWHEAD \ ˰ \ \ U+02F1 MODIFIER LETTER LOW LEFT ARROWHEAD \ ˱ \ \ U+02F 02:57:01 <oren\n> `unicode RIGHTARROw 02:57:03 <HackEgo> No output. 02:57:06 <oren\n> `unicode RIGHTARROW 02:57:07 <HackEgo> No output. 02:57:10 <oren\n> `unicode RIGHT ARROW 02:57:10 <HackEgo> U+02C3 MODIFIER LETTER RIGHT ARROWHEAD \ UTF-8: cb 83 UTF-16BE: 02c3 Decimal: &#707; \ ˃ \ Category: Sk (Symbol, Modifier) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+02F2 MODIFIER LETTER LOW RIGHT ARROWHEAD \ UTF-8: cb b2 UTF-16BE: 02f2 Decimal: &#754; \ ˲ \ Category: Sk (Symbol, Modifier) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+034D COMBINING LEFT RIGHT 02:57:15 <oren\n> `unicode 'RIGHT ARROW' 02:57:16 <HackEgo> No output. 02:57:19 <oerjan> `` unicode right arrow | grep -v '[a-z]' 02:57:20 <HackEgo> U+02C3 MODIFIER LETTER RIGHT ARROWHEAD \ ˃ \ \ U+02F2 MODIFIER LETTER LOW RIGHT ARROWHEAD \ ˲ \ \ U+034D COMBINING LEFT RIGHT ARROW BELOW \ ͍ \ \ U+0350 COMBINING RIGHT ARROWHEAD ABOVE \ ͐ \ \ U+0355 COMBINING RIGHT ARROWHEAD BELOW \ ͕ \ \ U+0356 COMBINING RIGHT ARROWHEAD AND UP ARROWHEAD BELOW \ ͖ \ \ U+0362 COMBINING DOUBLE RIGHTW 02:57:39 <oerjan> `` unicode right arrow | grep -v '[a-z]' | grep -v 'MODIFIER|COMBINING' 02:57:41 <HackEgo> U+02C3 MODIFIER LETTER RIGHT ARROWHEAD \ ˃ \ \ U+02F2 MODIFIER LETTER LOW RIGHT ARROWHEAD \ ˲ \ \ U+034D COMBINING LEFT RIGHT ARROW BELOW \ ͍ \ \ U+0350 COMBINING RIGHT ARROWHEAD ABOVE \ ͐ \ \ U+0355 COMBINING RIGHT ARROWHEAD BELOW \ ͕ \ \ U+0356 COMBINING RIGHT ARROWHEAD AND UP ARROWHEAD BELOW \ ͖ \ \ U+0362 COMBINING DOUBLE RIGHTW 02:57:44 <oerjan> wat 02:57:49 <oerjan> `` unicode right arrow | grep -v '[a-z]' | grep -v 'MODIFIER\|COMBINING' 02:57:50 <HackEgo> ​˃ \ \ ˲ \ \ ͍ \ \ ͐ \ \ ͕ \ \ ͖ \ \ ͢ \ \ U+08F8 ARABIC RIGHT ARROWHEAD ABOVE \ ࣸ \ \ U+08FA ARABIC RIGHT ARROWHEAD BELOW \ ࣺ \ \ U+08FB ARABIC DOUBLE RIGHT ARROWHEAD ABOVE \ ࣻ 02:58:06 <oerjan> doesn't look good 02:58:23 <oren\n> ← 02:58:27 <oren\n> hth 02:59:14 <oerjan> doesn't look very tranquil 03:00:13 -!- TechEffigy has joined. 03:00:54 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 03:01:21 <variable> codergeek42: welcome 03:01:35 <codergeek42> variable, Hello haha. 03:07:00 -!- Wright_ has joined. 03:07:01 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:15:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TOD]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43212&oldid=39800 * Null * (+10) /* Execution */ fix bug with morning and sunrise 03:16:11 -!- TechEffigy has left. 03:24:35 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 03:39:56 -!- a2 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 03:43:42 <zzo38> Count to zero 03:46:58 <FireFly> oren\n: I'm fairly sure that is a left arrow 03:47:02 <FireFly> tdnh 03:49:07 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:49:08 <HackEgo> phở/Phở là một món ăn truyền thống của Việt Nam, cũng có thể xem là một trong những món ăn đặc trưng nhất cho ẩm thực Việt Nam. 03:49:13 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:49:13 <HackEgo> oregon/Oregon is the home of Oregano. Gregor used to take care of the color scheme, but then he left. 03:49:32 -!- mitchs has quit (Quit: mitchs). 03:58:23 -!- mitchs has joined. 04:00:02 -!- Wright_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:00:18 -!- Wright has joined. 04:25:10 <oerjan> `? sgeolang 04:25:11 <HackEgo> sgeolang currently is neither J nor Io. 04:27:09 <trout> what is J and Io? 04:28:18 <oerjan> programming languages hth 04:29:28 <trout> oerjan: I knew that, I meant, oh, wait, HackEgo can run J and Io code 04:29:35 <trout> I thought J and Io were also categories 04:29:35 <trout> :\ 04:30:09 <oerjan> wat 04:30:46 <oerjan> i'm not aware that either of those are currently installed in HackEgo 04:31:18 <trout> oerjan: so, I'm confused then 04:31:34 <trout> oerjan: I know that J and IO are languages, but I am confused by HackEgo's response 04:33:03 <oerjan> sgeolang is defined as whichever language Sgeo_ is currently obsessing about hth. he seems to have calmed down enough lately that none of us is sure what it is. 04:33:25 <shachaf> it's neither J nor Io hth 04:33:39 <Sgeo_> Probably Rust ATM 04:33:55 <Sgeo_> I'm not sure why, I don't really care about no GC 04:34:12 <Sgeo_> I'm curious as to the history of that entry 04:34:23 <Sgeo_> `culprits wisdom/sgeolang 04:34:23 <oerjan> `lear Sgeolang is probably Rust ATM. 04:34:24 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: lear: not found 04:34:25 <HackEgo> shachaf oerjan elliott ais523 ais523 Taneb 04:34:28 <oerjan> `learn Sgeolang is probably Rust ATM. 04:34:28 <trout> oerjan: oh, its a quotebot, thanks 04:34:30 <HackEgo> Learned 'sgeolang': Sgeolang is probably Rust ATM. 04:34:39 <trout> I forgot what HackEgo did :\ 04:34:47 <oerjan> trout: BLASPHEMY 04:35:05 <Sgeo_> Where's the hackego thijgy 04:35:07 <Sgeo_> thingy 04:35:12 <shachaf> `wisdom 04:35:14 <HackEgo> deewiant/Deewiant is the world expert on Befunge conformance testing. 04:35:30 <Sgeo_> `url 04:35:31 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 04:36:19 <oerjan> `? ATM 04:36:20 <HackEgo> An ATM is when you're withdrawing money right now at a machine that will steal your relevant info 04:36:39 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/ATM 04:36:40 <HackEgo> No output. 04:36:43 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/atm 04:36:44 <Sgeo_> Huh shachaf changed it just yesterday 04:36:44 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott boily 04:37:11 <oerjan> Sgeo_: that's why i was checking it out, he used a fancy regexp so i got suspicious. 04:37:39 <shachaf> oerjan: hey 04:37:42 <shachaf> that was a good regexp 04:38:04 <oerjan> shachaf: sure, but you did not afais verify that it had worked properly tdnh 04:38:18 <shachaf> oerjan: i tested it in /msg first obviously hth 04:38:36 <shachaf> oerjan: do i look like the sort of person who would spam the channel with unnecessary wisdom entries 04:39:04 <oerjan> ER 04:40:11 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/atm 04:40:14 <HackEgo> No output. 04:40:22 <oerjan> `? ATM 04:40:22 <HackEgo> An ATM is when you're withdrawing money right now at a machine that will steal your relevant info. 04:41:09 <shachaf> an atm is 101325 Pa hth 04:48:45 <oerjan> shachaf: there are too many people making broken wisdoms for me to trust anyone not to hth 04:49:06 <shachaf> oerjan: remember when you kicked me for using a fancy regexp on wisdom/ 04:49:18 <shachaf> and banned me or something 04:49:19 <oerjan> good times 04:49:22 <shachaf> not really 04:50:22 <oerjan> later -> 04:51:32 <oren\n> `? sports 04:51:33 <HackEgo> sports? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:51:41 <shachaf> `wisdom 04:51:42 <HackEgo> natural transformation/A natural transformation is a transformation of something containing no chemicals. 04:52:14 <shachaf> Is it the transformation that contains no chemicals, or the something? 04:52:20 <oren\n> `` le/rn sports/An activity where you sit on your butt, while in a faraway city, burly men exercise. 04:52:23 <HackEgo> Learned «sports» 04:59:48 -!- bb010g has joined. 05:01:46 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 05:07:30 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:13:08 <shachaf> `wisdom 05:13:09 <HackEgo> monoid/Monoids are just categories with a single object. 05:13:12 <shachaf> `wisdom 05:13:12 <HackEgo> itym/itym "i think you mean" hth 05:13:21 <shachaf> `wisdom 05:13:22 <HackEgo> ais523/Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. 05:13:27 <shachaf> `wisdom 05:13:28 <HackEgo> natural transformation/A natural transformation is a transformation of something containing no chemicals. 05:13:31 <shachaf> `wisdom 05:13:32 <HackEgo> myndzi/myndzi keeps us all on our feet 05:19:24 <shachaf> `wisdom 05:19:24 <HackEgo> ant/ants are animals too hth 05:19:34 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/ant 05:19:36 <HackEgo> int-e 05:19:39 <shachaf> `wisdom 05:19:41 <HackEgo> conspirabiology/conspirabiology is where moth colourings form a dot matrix display to send you subliminal messages. 05:19:45 <shachaf> `wisdom 05:19:46 <HackEgo> metasepia/metasepia knows the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks. 05:19:50 <shachaf> `wisdom 05:19:51 <HackEgo> helsinki/Helsinki is the capital of Finland. Its main suburb is Hexham, Northumberland. 05:20:02 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/helsinki 05:20:02 <olsner> `wisdom 05:20:03 <HackEgo> metaturing/This wisdom entry was crushed by a falling anvil. 05:20:03 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 oerjan oerjan oerjan 05:20:50 <shachaf> `? olsner 05:20:51 <HackEgo> olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines. 05:20:52 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/olsner 05:20:54 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott oerjan kmc Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull oerjan FreeFull oerjan FreeFull oerjan 05:58:17 -!- codergeek42 has changed nick to codergeek42|away. 06:01:01 <oren\n> `wisdom 06:01:02 <HackEgo> kanada/Your bankers' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrug 06:01:09 <oren\n> `wisdom 06:01:10 <HackEgo> eridanipoid/Eridanipoids form a category of uncategorifiable stellar remnants. They form dense clusters of unmovable and unstoppable objects. 06:01:18 <oren\n> `wisdom 06:01:19 <HackEgo> esoteric/This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet. 06:01:24 <oren\n> `wisdom 06:01:24 <HackEgo> spam/Spam is a delicious meat product. See http://www.spamjamhawaii.com/ 06:01:34 <oren\n> `wisdom 06:01:35 <HackEgo> rhubarb/Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb, rhubarb: rhubarb rhubarb? Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb rhubarb. 06:01:39 <oren\n> `wisdom 06:01:40 <HackEgo> this/this is a word 06:01:44 <oren\n> `wisdom 06:01:45 <HackEgo> ​??/\\\¯\\\\\\\(\\\°\\\_\\\o\\\)\\\/\\\¯\\\?\\\ \\\¯\\\\\\\(\\\°\\\_\\\o\\\)\\\/\\\¯ 06:01:56 <oren\n> `? ?? 06:01:57 <HackEgo> ​\\\¯\\\\\\\(\\\°\\\_\\\o\\\)\\\/\\\¯\\\?\\\ \\\¯\\\\\\\(\\\°\\\_\\\o\\\)\\\/\\\¯ 06:02:48 -!- codergeek42|away has changed nick to codergeek42. 06:05:47 <shachaf> `wisdom 06:05:48 <HackEgo> forth/Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication. 06:06:40 <shachaf> `wisdom 06:06:41 <HackEgo> urbandictionary/Urban Dictionary is an alternative, inferior wisdom database. 06:06:45 <shachaf> `wisdom 06:06:46 <HackEgo> wisdom/wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 06:07:55 <olsner> `wisdom 06:07:56 <HackEgo> you/you a haskell 06:08:05 <olsner> `wisdom 06:08:06 <HackEgo> htdh/HtDH is a classic text on How to Design Hotdogs or possibly Hogprams. It is all about functional condiments, and was co-authored by Herence Tao and Don Ho. 06:21:09 -!- codergeek42 has left ("Ex-Chat"). 06:24:53 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/sport{s,} 06:24:54 <HackEgo> No output. 06:26:12 <oerjan> shachaf: see, not only does le/rn mess with s removal, but it also encourages people to make wisdoms that don't contain the lookup term. 06:26:29 <shachaf> oerjan: Yes, I was thinking about that. 06:27:00 <shachaf> gotta keep the ørjans of the world busy somehow 06:28:12 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 06:29:03 <shachaf> If you don't think le/rn should exist you can delete it. 06:29:54 <shachaf> After all, mk still exists. 06:39:50 <oren\n> ** 06:42:00 <oren\n> `unidecode ** 06:42:00 <HackEgo> ​[U+002A ASTERISK] [U+002A ASTERISK] 06:42:15 <oren\n> boo 06:42:22 <oren\n> `unidecode ･ 06:42:23 <HackEgo> ​[U+FF65 HALFWIDTH KATAKANA MIDDLE DOT] 06:42:26 <oren\n> HA 06:45:15 <oren\n> `unidecode ･··∙• 06:45:16 <HackEgo> ​[U+FF65 HALFWIDTH KATAKANA MIDDLE DOT] [U+00B7 MIDDLE DOT] [U+00B7 MIDDLE DOT] [U+2219 BULLET OPERATOR] [U+2022 BULLET] 07:03:10 -!- rdococ has joined. 07:11:26 <oren\n> halfwidth katakana are an excellent idea, because otherwise the katakana words in a text take up way too much space 07:12:47 <oren\n> I want a browser extensionn that halfifies all the katakana words on the page 07:18:48 -!- password2_ has joined. 07:47:03 <int-e> . o O ( `` echo He hates newlines. >> wisdom/oerjan ) 08:29:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:46:38 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:05:34 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:23:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:38:43 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:53:11 <mroman> `cat culprits 09:53:11 <HackEgo> cat: culprits: No such file or directory 09:53:17 <mroman> `cat bin/culprits 09:53:17 <HackEgo> hg log --removed "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs 10:18:04 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:18:37 -!- boily has joined. 10:30:04 <boily> @metar CYUL 10:30:04 <lambdabot> CYUL 161000Z 14004KT 30SM SCT020 BKN058 OVC080 18/16 A2982 RMK SC3SC3AC2 SLP098 DENSITY ALT 500FT 10:36:08 <mroman> @metar LZSH 10:36:09 <lambdabot> No result. 10:36:13 <mroman> @metar LUSH 10:36:14 <lambdabot> No result. 10:36:15 <mroman> hm 10:36:27 <mroman> @metar LSZH 10:36:27 <lambdabot> LSZH 161020Z 01004KT 340V080 9999 FEW014 SCT020 BKN095 18/15 Q1019 NOSIG 10:36:47 <boily> Zurich? 10:36:51 <mroman> yeh 10:38:05 -!- FireFly has quit (Changing host). 10:38:05 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:38:36 <Taneb> Aaargh, I'm doing that thing I do again where I forget to eat 10:38:48 <mroman> Don't worry. 10:38:58 <mroman> It'll take days before you die. 10:41:12 <Taneb> Not helping 10:44:11 <Taneb> I also can't get the idea of a natural transformation into my head 10:44:22 <int-e> it's unnatural 10:44:48 <Taneb> `quote unnatural 10:44:50 <HackEgo> 1241) <ais523> after a while doing esolangs, you kind-of forget negative numbers exist <ais523> they're so unnatural 10:45:00 <Taneb> That is one of my favourite quotes 10:47:17 <int-e> what was it, given functors F and G, a natural transformation is a family n_A : F(A) -> G(A) such that n_A . G(f) = F(f) . n_B? for all f : A -> B? 10:47:57 <int-e> (I'd have to look this up) 10:48:03 <boily> Taneb: have you ever tried soylent? 10:48:16 <Taneb> I have not, it's too expensive for me, I think 10:49:02 <mroman> so 10:49:09 <mroman> we need an esolang that doesn't have positive numbers.. 10:49:22 <int-e> unlambda 10:49:33 <mroman> only sub-zero numbers 10:49:36 <mroman> and only to -273 10:49:41 <Taneb> int-e, I think the assumption was that negative numbers exist 10:49:46 <mroman> after that it doesn't get any less positive 10:53:16 <int-e> Taneb: the only non-trivial natural transformation that I recognize as such in practice is the "return" of monads. 10:56:48 <int-e> And I suppose join is one, too. 10:58:06 <boily> what is the set of all numbers without integers called? outegers? 10:58:59 <Taneb> If not it should be 11:16:08 <Phantom_Hoover> R\Z i guess 11:16:22 <Phantom_Hoover> they're not interesting enough to need a proper name 11:22:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UNTRACTABLE CHICKEN). 11:37:55 -!- evalj has joined. 11:49:52 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:50:37 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:34:12 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:38:14 -!- rdococ has joined. 12:46:06 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 12:50:07 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 12:50:41 -!- lleu has joined. 13:06:03 -!- hjulle has joined. 13:37:15 <tswett> !bfjoust nyuroki >>>>>>[(-)*10[+].[-].]---)*21]--<[>>>(>[(-)*10[+]][-].]---)*20]--<---)*21]++<[>->((([-)*1[(>)*19[+].[-].]---)*21]--<[>>>(>[(-)*10[+].[-].]---)*21]--<[>>>(>[(-)*10[+].[-].]---)*21]--<[-]>[-].]---)*21](-)*10>><(+[(-)*10[+].----)*21]--<[(-)*50[+]]/--)*71](-)*71<(-)*51((-)*10>(+)*53>(-)*22>(-)*30>(-)*15>(+)*10>(+)*10>(+)*55>(+)*41>(-)*59<(+)*61<(-)*60>(+)*55>(-)*19>(+)*51<(-)*50> -)*21 13:37:35 <tswett> Lemme guess, it's a different bot now. 13:38:55 <EgoBot> ​Score for tswett_nyuroki: 0.0 13:39:38 <oerjan> !zjoust < 13:39:38 <zemhill_> oerjan: "!zjoust progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. 13:39:47 <oerjan> two bots, actually 13:40:19 <oerjan> zemhill_ is a bit more advanced, if it's working... 13:40:29 <Jafet> The bots should joust each other, clearly 13:42:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:53:16 -!- Wright has joined. 13:53:25 <rdococ> hahahahahahahhahaha 13:54:57 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:55:02 <b_jonas> Question. Is there a portable way to fsync a directory even if you only have write and execute access to it, not read access? 14:08:13 <b_jonas> Oh, maybe I can open a directory for read-only even if I don't have read permission? Let me see 14:10:27 <b_jonas> yes, I can still open it for reading, great 14:18:51 <b_jonas> indeed, can still call open and fsync when unreadable. sorry. 14:24:51 <Jafet> Is there even any filesystem that allows write-only access 14:25:01 <b_jonas> Jafet: yes 14:25:21 <b_jonas> all filesystems that support unix permission bits do I think 14:31:40 -!- Herbalist has joined. 14:31:47 -!- Herbalist has quit (Changing host). 14:31:48 -!- Herbalist has joined. 14:57:43 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 14:57:56 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Bbs). 14:59:54 -!- zadock has joined. 15:06:00 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:29:32 <nortti> do you know any good in-depth explanations of how concurrent garbage collectors work? 15:36:32 <b_jonas> nortti: really concurrent one, or just incremental? 15:36:41 <b_jonas> I don't know of such an explanation 15:37:21 <nortti> incremental is the one that has several heaps, and goes through some faster? 15:37:36 <nortti> and moves old stuff to the less-visited ones 15:37:53 <b_jonas> nortti: no 15:38:17 <b_jonas> nortti: moving or non-moving is orthogonal to incremental vs stop-the-world 15:38:51 <b_jonas> incremental means the gc does a small amount of work before every allocation, proportional to how much is allocated, thus making sure it can't lag behind, 15:39:05 <nortti> ah, ok 15:39:12 <b_jonas> whereas stop-the-world means it occasionally does a full collection instead, but does nothing at most allocations 15:39:24 <b_jonas> moving is, I think, called generational? I'm not sure in that 15:39:45 <b_jonas> oh wait, several heaps and goes throuhg some faster? I haven't heared of that 15:39:49 <nortti> ah, right, yea. I was thinking of generational 15:40:05 <nortti> err, s/faster/more often/ 15:40:10 <b_jonas> I was thinking of moving (compacting) vs non-moving in the sense whether the addresses remain constant 15:40:43 <nortti> hm. I guess either. incremental, or truly concurrent 15:40:52 <b_jonas> Moving can remove space between elements so the allocation itself is just a pointer increment, but it's tricky because it has to update all the existing pointers in objects when it moves stuff 15:41:20 <b_jonas> I have no idea how truly concurrent works 15:41:45 <nortti> I've read on the chicken gc (which is generational), let me find the link 15:42:20 <nortti> http://www.more-magic.net/posts/internals-gc.html 15:42:42 <nortti> that explained that very well, and in best case looking for something like that 15:58:36 <Jafet> http://gchandbook.org looks promising 16:06:46 -!- Herbalist has joined. 16:14:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: GCZZZ). 17:10:18 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:12:29 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:20:27 -!- Herbalist has joined. 17:23:02 -!- llue has joined. 17:23:25 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:26:47 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:29:56 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:47:07 <rdococ> I'm lonely... 17:51:39 <rdococ> is there a channel for discussing RPGs? 17:52:02 <rdococ> or should I make up a ROLEPLAYINGLANGUAGE? 17:54:44 <pikhq> It would be acceptably off topic to just discuss RPGs here. 17:54:56 <pikhq> (either role playing games or rocket-propelled grenades. :)) 17:58:14 <mhi^> rdococ: Assuming non-tabletop RPGs.. FF7 remake. Your thoughts? 17:59:32 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 18:04:43 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:07:47 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:12:58 <oren\n> I have been hoping in vain that they'll remake any FF over 6 for several years. 18:16:15 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:16:41 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:19:45 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 18:23:10 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:34:51 <mhi^> oren\n: Actually there will be a FF7 remake. 18:40:28 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:40:46 -!- lemurian has joined. 18:48:08 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:48:21 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:52:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:56:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:57:14 -!- AnotherTest has changed nick to AnotherTe. 18:58:39 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:01:42 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:01:47 -!- FreeFull has quit (Changing host). 19:01:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:04:23 <oren\n> mhi^: exactly. there will be, but it's far too late 19:04:43 <oren\n> they could have done it a long time ago 19:04:50 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:05:03 <HackEgo> banach-tarski/"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". 19:05:12 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:05:12 <HackEgo> amiga/Amiga is Spanish for a female friend. 19:05:15 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:05:16 <HackEgo> cyberdrone/cyberdrone is a drone flying in cyberspace. 19:05:28 <shachaf> `? wisdom 19:05:28 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 19:05:36 <shachaf> hm 19:05:38 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:05:39 <HackEgo> forty/forty means "in a fort-like manner" 19:06:06 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:06:09 <HackEgo> elliot/No one was ever called Elliot. 19:06:12 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:06:13 <HackEgo> just intonation/Bad-tempered people can be recognized by just intonation. 19:06:24 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:06:24 <HackEgo> drone/drones are tools used to perform certain criminal actions that were not possible in ancient times. 19:06:35 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:06:37 <HackEgo> augur/augur took no cakes. 19:06:58 <shachaf> hmph 19:07:01 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:07:01 <HackEgo> burma/ask Bike 19:07:07 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:07:08 <HackEgo> qzyzzalroum/You should start the crossword over. 19:07:22 <augur> DAMNIT 19:07:24 <augur> I WANT CAKE 19:08:04 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:08:05 <HackEgo> piet/ \ Piet is a really colorful programming language. 19:08:31 <rdococ> hahahahahaha 19:08:37 <rdococ> `? rdococ 19:08:37 <HackEgo> RDOCOCLIKESTOMAKELANGUAGESLIKETHIS 19:08:45 <rdococ> ehehehehehehe ... it's so funny 19:08:58 <rdococ> `wisdom 19:08:59 <HackEgo> supermarioperator/supermarioperator is one of many confusing operators as defined in Control.Plumbers.Monad. Your sanity is in another castle. 19:09:16 <rdococ> ...? 19:09:17 <coppro> `haddock 19:09:18 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: haddock: not found 19:09:22 <coppro> `wisdom haddock 19:09:23 <HackEgo> usa/See America. 19:09:25 <shachaf> `` tail -n1 wisdom/piet > /tmp/$$; mv /tmp/$$ wisdom/piet 19:09:27 <HackEgo> No output. 19:09:38 <rdococ> no wonder toilets in the Mushroom Kingdom don't work 19:09:56 <rdococ> I wonder, when a plumber needs to pee or poo, where does he go? 19:10:20 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:10:21 <HackEgo> conspirabiology/conspirabiology is where moth colourings form a dot matrix display to send you subliminal messages. 19:10:38 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:10:39 <HackEgo> wisisis "This isn't an actual wisdom, just a tribute."/ 19:11:20 <shachaf> `` hg log wisdom/wisisis* | grep summary 19:11:21 <HackEgo> summary: <FreeFull> addwep wisisis "This isn\'t an actual wisdom, just a tribute." 19:11:40 <shachaf> `` cat bin/addwep 19:11:40 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ echo "$2" > "wisdom/$1" 19:11:58 <shachaf> what's all this? 19:12:34 <shachaf> `` rm bin/addwep 19:12:36 <HackEgo> No output. 19:12:47 <shachaf> `` rm wisdom/wisisis* 19:12:50 <HackEgo> No output. 19:14:15 <FreeFull> That must have been a long time ago 19:14:40 <FreeFull> Because I don't remember it in the slightest 19:28:19 -!- GeekDude has joined. 19:31:28 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:47:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Don't bother clicking here.]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43213 * 85.0.153.1 * (+51) Created page with "I did actually fucking bother. #firstworldanarchism" 19:47:54 <fowl> Sup esoterics 19:59:14 -!- wundo has joined. 20:00:50 -!- wundo has left. 20:08:12 -!- gamemanj has joined. 20:10:00 <int-e> `? unlambda 20:10:00 <HackEgo> unlambda? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:10:04 <int-e> `? brainfuck 20:10:05 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. 20:10:48 <gamemanj> HackEgo: But the question is, is brainfuck itself terrible? 20:14:26 <int-e> `le/rn unlambda ``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.U`ci 20:14:31 <HackEgo> Learned «unlambda ``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.u`ci» 20:14:41 <int-e> `revert 20:14:49 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 20:15:23 <int-e> meh. 20:15:53 <int-e> `` rm wisdom/unlambda\ * 20:15:54 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wisdom/unlambda *': No such file or directory 20:16:34 <int-e> `rm wisdom/unlambda ``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.U`ci 20:16:34 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wisdom/unlambda ``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.\'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.U`ci': No such file or directory 20:17:42 <shachaf> `mk wisdom/unlambda ``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.U`ci 20:17:44 <HackEgo> No output. 20:17:47 <shachaf> another advantage of mk 20:18:37 <int-e> `le/rn unlambda/``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.U`ci 20:18:39 <HackEgo> Learned «unlambda» 20:19:21 <int-e> the mk thing didn't do anything though? 20:19:37 <int-e> `` echo wisdom/unlambda* 20:19:38 <HackEgo> wisdom/unlambda wisdom/unlambda ``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.u`ci 20:19:41 <shachaf> Right, it failed because there was no // 20:19:48 <shachaf> I guess it could print an error message on failure. 20:19:51 <int-e> `` echo wisdom/unlambda*i 20:19:52 <HackEgo> wisdom/unlambda ``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.u`ci 20:19:53 <fowl> Even the bot in here is esoteric 20:19:59 <int-e> `` rm wisdom/unlambda*i 20:20:01 <shachaf> But le/rn doesn't fail, it just makes an invalid file. 20:20:02 <HackEgo> No output. 20:20:37 <int-e> so why didn't the `revert work? 20:21:02 <shachaf> I think it did work. 20:21:17 <int-e> not according to http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi 20:22:43 <b_jonas> `? unlambda 20:22:44 <HackEgo> ​``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.U`ci 20:22:58 <shachaf> OK, maybe not. 20:23:03 <int-e> maybe I expected the wrong thing; afaiu, it's supposed to revert the latest commit. 20:23:12 <int-e> (if given no arguments) 20:23:24 <shachaf> That's my understanding also. 20:23:34 <shachaf> It's a little broken due to canary trouble lately. 20:23:40 <shachaf> But I thought it was still working. 20:23:49 <olsner> `? ursala 20:23:50 <HackEgo> ​~&al?\~&ar ~&aa^&~&afahPRPfafatPJPRY+ ~&farlthlriNCSPDPDrlCS2DlrTS2J,^|J/~& ~&rt!=+ ^= ~&s+ ~&H(-+.|=&lrr;,|=&lrl;,|=&ll;+-, ~&rgg&& ~&irtPFXlrjrXPS; ~&lrK2tkZ2g&& ~&llrSL2rDrlPrrPljXSPTSL)+-, 20:24:00 <b_jonas> shachaf: it's not broken, just pinin' for the fjords 20:24:03 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/unlambda 20:24:04 <HackEgo> int-e 20:24:21 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:24:22 <HackEgo> flagpole/A flagpole is like a tadpole, but with a flag on top. 20:24:31 <int-e> `? bit 20:24:32 <HackEgo> bit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:24:34 <int-e> `? flag 20:24:35 <HackEgo> flag? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:25:05 <shachaf> A flagpole is just a tad different from what that wisdom entry says. 20:25:51 <fowl> SuperPedant is a required-typed language, that is typing is strong and any expression must be preceded by its type, two expressions (1 and 1+1) [int]1 ; [int][(int,int)->int][int]1+[int]1 20:28:20 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:28:21 <HackEgo> friend/Friends make graphs together / La la la la 20:28:28 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/friend 20:28:29 <HackEgo> No output. 20:45:04 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:46:40 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:48:47 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 20:51:14 -!- nys has joined. 20:57:03 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:57:17 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:00:00 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:00:01 <HackEgo> fentimans/fentimans is a delicious beverage out from Hexham, that can be paired with a fresh fternooner for a nutritive midday snack. 21:00:04 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:00:05 <HackEgo> hipchat/hipchat is a chat where you can communicate solely by using meme-emoticons but shouldn't. 21:04:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:19:55 -!- GeekDude has joined. 21:30:53 <tswett> Anyone know what oerjan's last name is? 21:31:01 -!- AnotherTe has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:31:28 <tswett> I assume his first name is Ørjan. 21:32:19 <pikhq> Johansen. 21:33:34 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:36:16 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:36:40 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 21:37:27 <tswett> Oh yeah. 21:40:48 -!- hjulle has joined. 21:41:35 <int-e> aww, wisdom has no friend anymore 21:53:40 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:56:43 -!- boily has joined. 21:58:21 <boily> @metar CYUL 21:58:21 <lambdabot> CYUL 162145Z 29004KT 270V340 15SM -SHRA FEW009 SCT020 BKN050 OVC080 22/20 A2982 RMK CF1SC3SC4AC1 CF TR TCU EMBD SLP099 DENSITY ALT 1000FT 21:58:40 <boily> 22 fungotting 20. it's damp, humid and oh so moist outside. 21:58:40 <fungot> boily: do not say quine, it quines your request 21:58:51 <boily> fungot: stop being sentient hth 21:58:51 <fungot> boily: do you need? -g ( was that truncated?) 21:59:03 <boily> fungot: no, lambdie is perfectly fine without -g. 21:59:04 <fungot> boily: that's all of them 21:59:16 <boily> fungot: indeed. and stop being sentient. 21:59:16 <fungot> boily: the programming language. it is 21:59:23 <boily> fungot: no, it is not. 22:12:03 -!- evalj has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:14:16 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:19:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:19:46 <boily> `? Ruby 22:19:51 <HackEgo> Ruby 22:20:04 <boily> ... 22:20:36 <boily> oren\n: helloren\n. I appear to be missing some part of Ruby. 22:24:51 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 22:42:30 <oren\n> `? ruby 22:42:31 <HackEgo> Ruby 22:44:28 <oren\n> `` le/rn ruby/Ruby is a programming language from Japan, that Eventually decided to support non-ascii characters. 22:44:29 <HackEgo> Learned «ruby» 22:44:32 <oren\n> `? ruby 22:44:33 <HackEgo> Ruby 22:44:44 <oren\n> `` le/rn 'ruby/Ruby is a programming language from Japan, that Eventually decided to support non-ascii characters.' 22:44:48 <HackEgo> Learned «ruby» 22:44:50 <oren\n> `? ruby 22:44:51 <HackEgo> Ruby is a programming language from Japan, that Eventually decided to support non-ascii characters. 22:45:20 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 22:48:47 <boily> `thanks oren\n 22:48:47 <HackEgo> Thanks, oren\n. Thoren\n. 22:49:25 <shachaf> just use `le/rn 22:49:34 <zzo38> Yes that is work better 22:49:44 <zzo38> (Especially if you want to put apostrophe in the data too) 23:03:13 <shachaf> zzo38: But what if you want to put newline in the data? 23:04:38 <zzo38> Of course it that case it doesn't work, but you should probably try not to put line breaks in the data anyways. 23:06:19 <shachaf> What if you want to put an unprintable character in the data? 23:07:04 <zzo38> You probably shouldn't do that either, but of course you can create the file in other ways too if you need line breaks or unprintable or whatever. 23:25:01 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:25:19 -!- Wright has joined. 23:26:33 -!- GeekDude has joined. 23:29:38 <zzo38> It looks to me that cURL does not support URL-encoded POST data? It seems only accepting multipart format. 23:29:55 <zzo38> Is there a way to tell it to emit URL-encoded POST data? 23:32:43 -!- nys has changed nick to nyssa. 23:32:49 -!- nyssa has changed nick to nys. 23:34:07 <nys> i don't know BUT hey is there some way of.. compiling limits/colimits 23:34:14 <nys> if you catch my meaning 23:35:04 <boily> nyellos. what's a limit/colimit? 23:35:47 <nys> http://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/limit 23:35:52 <nys> >_> 23:36:22 <oren\n> is it stupid to use an emulator to play a game I also have on cartridge and virtual console? 23:37:15 <nys> shoot now there are three lines of questioning at once 23:37:53 <zzo38> oren\n: Not necessarily. 23:38:13 <zzo38> It can help to create multiple save files, pause, debugging, speed-up, cheat-codes, screenshots, etc 23:41:34 <shachaf> I don't catch your meaning. 23:42:58 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:45:24 <nys> shachaf: if you have products, and you have a program f, as well as a program g, it's simple to construct a program <f,g> 23:45:52 <nys> so i'm wondering if there's a similar kind of way of assigning a computation to limits 23:50:36 <shachaf> Well, that's assuming your category even has limits. 23:50:52 <shachaf> Or maybe it isn't, and you just care about the limits you do have. 23:51:12 <nys> i want limits just to see if they mean something >-> 23:51:34 <shachaf> But generally constructing those is pretty much doing what you said. 23:56:28 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 2015-06-17: 00:00:00 <nys> apparently arbitrary limits can be constructed from products and equalizers 00:00:07 <nys> so i'd just need to figure out how to do equalizers 00:01:08 <shachaf> Sure. But Haskell doesn't have equalizers, for instance. 00:01:31 <nys> yeah, maybe some types could be.. equalizable? 00:01:41 <shachaf> Easier with dependent types. :-) 00:01:54 <nys> :s 00:09:39 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:11:44 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 00:32:39 <zzo38> When parsing a multipart/form-data block is it necessary to consider base64 and quoted-printable encodings? 00:36:07 <pikhq> Yes, it explicitly may be encoded as such. 00:36:22 <pikhq> (RFC2388) 00:37:53 -!- trout has changed nick to constant. 00:38:01 <zzo38> At least cURL seems to only use binary encodings when sending data 00:38:42 <zzo38> But, I can try to detect it anyways, if I can write a C code to decode base64 encodings. 00:39:12 <pikhq> It will be stated in the headers of the multipart/form-data block. 00:39:18 <pikhq> (content-transfer-encoding) 00:39:26 <zzo38> Yes I know it is mentioned there 00:40:20 <zzo38> Before reading the data, it is necessary to figure out the transfer encoding, field name, and if applicable the MIME type. 00:48:41 -!- constant has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 00:57:17 -!- variable has joined. 01:47:03 <shachaf> `` mv bin/mk{e,x} 01:47:05 <HackEgo> No output. 01:53:23 -!- Wright_ has joined. 01:53:23 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:00:43 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TRIBUTARY CHICKEN). 02:08:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:10:46 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:19:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 02:25:25 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 02:38:46 <oerjan> `? piet 02:38:46 <HackEgo> ​Piet is a really colorful programming language. 02:43:25 <izabera> `` type ? 02:43:25 <HackEgo> bash: line 0: type: 0: not found 02:43:43 <izabera> wtf... 02:43:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Don't bother clicking here.]]": Vandalism: content was: "I did actually fucking bother. #firstworldanarchism" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/85.0.153.1|85.0.153.1]]") 02:45:13 <izabera> `` type "?" 02:45:14 <HackEgo> ​? is /hackenv/bin/? 02:45:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:85.0.153.1]] with an expiry time of 1 month (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Why isn't "Vandalism" listed as a block reason? 02:45:33 <izabera> `` file /hackenv/bin/"?" 02:45:35 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/?: POSIX shell script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable 02:45:41 <izabera> `` cat /hackenv/bin/"?" 02:45:42 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \ 02:46:20 <izabera> can it export to a pastebin? 02:46:48 <fowl> sh scripts 02:46:56 <fowl> the original esoteric language 02:46:57 <oerjan> `cat bin/pastewisdom 02:46:59 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ echo http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 02:47:26 <oerjan> hm that's nonmodular 02:48:00 <oerjan> `` sed -i '2curl wisdom' bin/pastewisdom 02:48:02 <HackEgo> No output. 02:48:06 <oerjan> `pastewisdom 02:48:07 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom 02:49:03 <oerjan> izabera: see also wisdom.pdf in topic 02:49:06 <izabera> there's a 48 byte zork :o 02:49:10 <izabera> ok 02:49:12 <izabera> thanks 02:52:18 <oerjan> `` ls wisdom/unlambda* 02:52:19 <HackEgo> wisdom/unlambda 03:00:55 <tswett> Today's interesting neural net quote: 03:00:59 <tswett> 19:39:12: <zemhill> mroman_.(the post the the other the esoteric and international out out around on wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other th other and design esoteric information, the international hub wiki: <http://esolangs.org/> (watching ", expected prefixible for type crapped and probably obviously)" index. <= <-- you could many bit on the point of expression 03:00:59 <tswett> of scope: (general vocale constructor script to the top of what the manipulate "know" and better for lambdabot ...)) \ command \ std 03:02:57 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 03:08:48 -!- bb010g has joined. 03:20:35 <augur> tswett: what was your nick before tsweet? i forget 03:21:06 <tswett> ihope. But dang, that was a long time ago. 03:21:17 <augur> oh yes ihope 03:22:07 <tswett> The corresponding greeting is, of course, "ihellope". 03:22:34 <augur> lol 03:22:57 -!- password2 has joined. 03:25:03 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:25:04 <HackEgo> bird/bird bird bird bird 03:25:32 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:25:33 <HackEgo> footnote 8/Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes? 03:25:36 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:25:36 <HackEgo> right/Right is not two wrongs but three lefts. 03:28:16 <tswett> `? footnote 1 03:28:17 <HackEgo> footnote 1? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:28:36 <tswett> `` ls wisdom/footnote* 03:28:37 <HackEgo> wisdom/footnote 8 03:28:47 <tswett> Mmhmm. 03:28:53 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:28:53 <HackEgo> kmc/kmc ran the International Devious Code Contest of 2013 03:28:58 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:29:00 <HackEgo> ​　/　 is a space, unless you're hackego and don't understand wide characters. 03:29:03 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:29:04 <HackEgo> color/Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulh 03:29:08 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:29:09 <HackEgo> tdh/tdh is the past tense of a successful hth. hth. 03:29:26 <shachaf> tdnh 03:29:42 <oerjan> <shachaf> It's a little broken due to canary trouble lately. <-- i think possibly `revert has trouble with reverting file creation? and that it may be unrelated to the canary. 03:30:04 <shachaf> Did we have canary errors before that fateful day? 03:30:11 <oerjan> not that i recall. 03:30:56 <shachaf> you're either wisdom or againsdom 03:31:27 <oerjan> the error is pretty consistent with someone doing rm canary.orig and not expecting that some fool may have turned it into a directory. 03:32:38 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:32:39 <HackEgo> olist/Update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. 03:33:25 <tswett> `` echo uuu >> wisdom/color 03:33:28 <HackEgo> No output. 03:33:30 <tswett> `? color 03:33:30 <HackEgo> ​Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. 03:33:37 <tswett> Wait. 03:33:44 <tswett> `cat wisdom/color 03:33:44 <HackEgo> ​Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. 03:33:54 <tswett> Did my echo do anything at all? 03:34:13 <oerjan> tswett: (1) we do _not_ >> into wisdoms. (2) it's actually just a cut off line. 03:34:23 <oerjan> `revert 03:34:24 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 03:34:39 <oerjan> `` tail -c +10 wisdom/color 03:34:40 <HackEgo> 0olor is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. 03:34:56 <shachaf> oerjan: why do you hate newlines twh 03:34:57 <oerjan> erm 03:34:58 <shachaf> `? newline 03:34:59 <HackEgo> Newlines are le/rn's \ biggest weakness. 03:35:04 <oerjan> `` tail -c 10 wisdom/color 03:35:05 <HackEgo> ​hu. 03:35:23 <oerjan> shachaf: because they make wisdoms ugly. 03:36:01 <shachaf> do you hate wisdom/newline 03:36:29 <tswett> Does >> add a newline at the beginning of the appended stuff? 03:36:42 <oerjan> tswett: no, there's already a newline at the end 03:37:12 <oerjan> also, `learn_append 03:37:13 <shachaf> maybe wisdoms shouldn't have a newline at the end hth 03:38:14 <tswett> oerjan: right, right. 03:38:41 <shachaf> i'm tempted to alter learn and le/rn and so on to use echo -n and remove newlines from all the wisdoms 03:38:51 <oerjan> poor boily 03:39:02 <shachaf> but that would modify the culprits list 03:39:05 <shachaf> which is scow 03:40:07 <oerjan> shachaf: the thing is, it will _still_ not help with people doing >> because _they_ aren't going to know about removing newlines from what they add. 03:40:30 <shachaf> sure, but other people can use echo -n >> 03:41:02 <shachaf> rather than learn_append which maybe doesn't work for entries with spaces in their names and so on 03:41:15 <shachaf> and also has a scow name 03:41:21 <shachaf> `` ls bin/*_* 03:41:22 <HackEgo> bin/learn_append \ bin/learn_append2 \ bin/print_args_or_input 03:41:42 <shachaf> `cat bin/learn_append2 03:41:45 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash 03:41:48 <shachaf> `culprits bin/learn_append2 03:41:49 <HackEgo> mroman_ mroman_ 03:41:50 <shachaf> useful 03:43:22 <tswett> `? scow 03:43:23 <HackEgo> scow? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:46:49 -!- Wright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:48:29 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 04:00:07 <shachaf> copumpkin: whoa, that picture is great 04:00:28 <zzo38> We can make RDF file which is categorizing the HackEgo wisdom files by date, user, history, arbitrary tags, etc. RDF requires strings to consist only of Unicode codepoints (with a few exceptions), but it does have a way to represent arbitrary binary data so you can use that if the file contains invalid or non-canonical UTF-8 sequences or null bytes. 04:01:25 <zzo38> However, the other problem is if the filename contains invalid UTF-8 sequences. I have a way around that too though. URIs in a RDF document that contain non-ASCII characters are *not* supposed to be percent-encoded or Punycode-encoded. If the filename contains invalid UTF-8 sequences, I suggest percent-encoding them anyways. 04:02:57 <zzo38> (My own RDF parser doesn't care about invalid UTF-8 sequences but it is possible that others will, so for compatibility reasons it must be considered.) 04:04:57 -!- Wright has joined. 04:05:37 <shachaf> The picture in question is http://i.imgur.com/6ocuQsZ.jpg 04:06:55 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 04:07:07 -!- oerjan has kicked shachaf Linking NSFL pictures. 04:07:11 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 04:08:43 -!- shachaf has joined. 04:09:18 <shachaf> oerjan: I can't tell if that's serious or not. 04:09:30 <oerjan> neither can i hth 04:09:32 <shachaf> But it messed up my irssi windows, since I have it set up to reuse windows and I got a /msg 04:09:49 <shachaf> zzo38: http://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/3a1ebc/image_generated_by_a_convolutional_network/a 04:10:31 <shachaf> I mean http://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/3a1ebc/image_generated_by_a_convolutional_network/ 04:10:39 <zzo38> O, it is a convolutional network. OK 04:11:22 <zzo38> What is a convolutional network? 04:11:45 <shachaf> It's an artificial neural network that has convolution layers, I think. 04:11:45 <copumpkin> shachaf: yeah! I can't stop staring 04:11:56 <zzo38> Ah, OK 04:12:44 <shachaf> A convolution layer is a layer where instead of having an affine map where you can change every weight separately, you have a small convolution matrix thing applied everywhere. 04:13:11 <oerjan> shachaf: i think this pretty much sums it up http://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/3a1ebc/image_generated_by_a_convolutional_network/cs8hsei 04:13:20 <shachaf> So it's like training a whole bunch of the network at once with the same values, I guess. 04:14:45 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you know about artificial neural network and other things like that? 04:17:25 <zzo38> Not much 04:19:32 <shachaf> `wisdom 04:19:33 <HackEgo> døsthiswørk/yes 04:31:20 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:41:27 -!- j-bot has joined. 04:53:49 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:33:58 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 05:37:58 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:02:43 <oren\n> Oh fuck demon dogs! 06:02:57 <oren\n> That's some scary stuff! 06:03:26 <Sgeo_> https://twitter.com/fuckeveryword is a thing that exists 06:46:17 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:01:34 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:16:44 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:41:25 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:48:05 <zzo38> How do you directly build a frequency-domain of a decaying tone? 07:59:58 <Jafet> Hmm, wikipedia has disabled HTTP access 08:00:40 <Jafet> That's going to make it difficult to cache 08:01:36 <zzo38> Yes, I told them that too 08:06:45 <zzo38> Make the proxy server that uses HTTP with the client but HTTPS with the Wikipedia server 08:18:16 -!- rdococ has joined. 08:18:32 <rdococ> umm... guys... 08:19:06 <rdococ> Umm... 08:19:20 <zzo38> But there is another way. They said they didn't want problems with accessing insecure connections and then someone tamper with it or steal the setting of cookie or whatever. This can be solved by using a different domain name for insecure connections. 08:19:43 <rdococ> ...cookies 08:20:40 <rdococ> so I heard about this "nullity" thing someone thought up 9 years ago... don't get me wrong, it's total BS, but it makes me think... I wonder what an esoteric language with it built in would be like...? 08:21:41 <rdococ> ... ... nevermind ... 08:21:50 <rdococ> look...umm... 08:21:52 <rdococ> ufh 08:22:16 <rdococ> is anyone here?! 08:22:47 <rdococ> wait... are you shocked? do you think I like the idea? or do you like the idea and are offended? 08:22:50 <zzo38> I am on at least 08:23:04 <zzo38> I do not quite know the answer though. 08:23:09 <rdococ> nevermind... 08:25:19 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 08:25:38 <hppavilion1> import}io}; 08:25:48 <hppavilion1> print}Hello, World!}; 08:25:51 <hppavilion1> return} 08:25:51 <hppavilion1> ; 08:26:00 <rdococ> ... 08:26:07 <hppavilion1> Sorry 08:26:08 <hppavilion1> First time 08:26:18 <oerjan> we discussed nullity way back and i think we decided it was crap. although here's a more serious way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_theory 08:26:21 <hppavilion1> I always start with hello worlds when I join something new 08:26:21 <rdococ> oh!!! I know what you were doing... 08:26:32 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:26:45 <rdococ> its okay... its kinda funny actually... but for a second I didn't know what you were talking about... 08:26:57 <zzo38> OK 08:27:06 <hppavilion1> Wait, are you talking to me? I doubt it, but just checking 08:27:07 <rdococ> anyway... welcome... 08:27:14 <oerjan> `relcome hppavilion1 08:27:15 <HackEgo> ​hppavilion1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 08:27:21 <rdococ> yes I am. 08:27:39 <hppavilion1> Yay 08:27:44 <hppavilion1> I'm welcome somewhere :P 08:28:37 <rdococ> of course you are! 08:28:48 <zzo38> Is nullity meaning a name for zero divided by zero (even though of course you cannot divide by zero)? I think I heard "nullity" meaning it once? 08:28:56 <rdococ> yeah... 08:29:46 <rdococ> http://www.bbc.co.uk/berkshire/content/articles/2006/12/06/divide_zero_feature.shtml ... don't get me wrong, 0 / 0 would equal nullity, but that's because 0 / 0 would equal anything if you let it... 08:29:56 <zzo38> I suppose it can be useful to have a name for it in some cases, even though it is not actually a possible operation. 08:29:59 <hppavilion1> I just spent the last few hours writing a Befunge Interpreter in python 08:30:09 <oerjan> there's already an esolang including nullity it's called IEEE 754 hth 08:30:35 <rdococ> a / b = c means c * b = a. applying that to 0/0, we get 0 / 0 = x means x * 0 = 0... and every number satisfies that, including nullity itself 08:30:52 <zzo38> Yes, I can see that 08:31:36 <zzo38> It isn't what I meant though; what I meant is you are explicitly dividing zero by zero. For example to figure out the percentage of questions you answered correctly on a test even though there are no questions on the test. 08:31:48 <rdococ> yeah... 08:32:10 <oerjan> i'm not sure the befunge experts are awake at the moment 08:32:18 <zzo38> It isn't a number, but rather some kind of convenient shortcut in some cases. 08:32:24 <oerjan> fungot: except you, of course! 08:32:24 <fungot> oerjan: fnord is a fetish, now is. anyway, obviously tusho's dialect forbids " got" it is? :) where would you like 08:32:45 <zzo38> You can't do any proper mathematical operations with it. 08:33:32 <rdococ> IEEE 754 might have been vandalised... there's nothing on the article 08:33:45 <rdococ> or deleted... 08:33:49 <oerjan> rdococ: on wikipedia? 08:33:56 <rdococ> no... 08:34:10 <rdococ> you said there was an esolang called IEEE 754 08:34:22 <oerjan> i was joking hth 08:34:31 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_floating_point 08:34:45 <rdococ> ik... 08:34:50 <rdococ> well, now I do 08:34:53 <rdococ> anyway... 08:35:19 <hppavilion1> Oh god 08:35:21 <rdococ> for most purposes, I would say 0 / 0 = 1. 08:35:51 <hppavilion1> I think that the Befunge interpreter is the longest thing I've ever written. At <500 lines. Which is sad. 08:36:02 <oerjan> hppavilion1: i think the standard thing to do with a new befunge interpreter around here is to get it to pass Deewiant's mycology test suite 08:36:11 <rdococ> that would be a new record for me 08:36:13 <zzo38> rdococ: I would not say any one for "most purposes" 08:36:40 <rdococ> where are you likely to see 0/0 in maths where it's not just an error on your part? 08:37:00 <rdococ> then we'll get the value we should assign to 0/0 for those purposes. 08:37:10 <rdococ> it could equal anything, so any value will do. 08:37:59 <zzo38> Whether or not anything should be assigned at all depends on the situation. 08:38:12 <rdococ> true... 08:38:29 <rdococ> Anderson provides a proof that 0^0 = 0/0. usually, 0^0 = 1 for most purposes 08:38:32 <oerjan> rdococ: l'Hopital's rule hth 08:38:44 <zzo38> Mathematically there is no proper answer that you can use 08:38:47 <oerjan> *ô 08:39:24 <zzo38> Although I do think 0^0=1 is valid. But if you have a proof that 0^0 = 0/0 that doesn't seem valid because the "0/0" part is the not-valid part. 08:39:37 <rdococ> true... 08:40:03 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:40:45 <rdococ> a long while ago I stumbled upon a question, "in a foreign country, 5 / 2 = 3. based on the same proportions, what is 10 / 3?" I immediately thought, "what foreign country would do this and why?" 08:41:15 <rdococ> I wonder if every country did that before the invention/discovery/whatever of zero. 08:41:19 <zzo38> It doesn't make sense. 08:42:52 <rdococ> it does to me... simply put, such a country denies the existence of zero in their mathematical teachings. in modern countries, x / 2 is the number in the middle of 0 and x. but when and where zero doesn't exist, x / 2 would be the number in the middle of 1 and x instead. 08:46:15 <zzo38> I was making different assumptions, in an attempt to be mathematically correct; it has nothing to do with foreign countries or whether or not zero is invented 08:53:48 <rdococ> well, of course 5 / 2 does not equal 3. I wasn't saying it does. 08:54:16 <rdococ> but in a world without 0, or in a world without fractions, division or numbers might take a different meaning 08:54:43 <rdococ> for example, someone might say 5 objects / 2 objects = 3 objects, even if the third object is only half as big as the other two 08:54:56 <rdococ> but we would say 5 / 2 = 2.5 08:54:59 <zzo38> Maybe, I don't know. But, the current mathematical way would still be possible too. 08:55:17 <rdococ> definitely 08:55:43 <rdococ> even if there's no concept of the number zero, it has no effect on the applications of division and sharing 08:56:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:56:36 <rdococ> imagine if we could create an esolang with this alternate division 08:56:48 <zzo38> You can try 08:57:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 08:58:45 <rdococ> hmm 09:48:16 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:49:15 -!- FreeFull has joined. 10:05:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:17:18 -!- boily has joined. 10:47:01 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 10:49:32 -!- idris-bot has joined. 11:20:34 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: bbs). 11:22:40 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 11:23:30 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:24:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:29:46 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PRODLLY CHICKEN). 11:34:43 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:43:56 <mroman> @tell oerjan http://codepad.org/LA8kRBCM 11:43:56 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 12:01:26 <Taneb> Does anyone know enough about http://www.eclipse.org/epsilon/ to give me a tl;dr 12:01:55 <Phantom_Hoover> does there exist a http://www.eclipse.org/delta/? 12:02:16 <int-e> . o O ( I can do the ;dr part just fine... ) 12:03:08 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, evidently not 12:12:52 <rdococ> epsilon = 1/infinity = 1/(1/0) = 0... 12:14:05 <Taneb> Hmm, the ebook documenting it is written by 4 people from this uni 12:14:12 <rdococ> omg... I have an idea... 12:15:19 <Taneb> `learn epsilon stands for Extensible Platform of Integrated Languages for Model Management (EPILMM) 12:15:22 <HackEgo> Learned 'epsilon': epsilon stands for Extensible Platform of Integrated Languages for Model Management (EPILMM) 12:15:42 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:16:13 <rdococ> you know numbers, 1, 2, 3...? when you mutiply a number x by some number y and add some number z, you get a linear function with a constant derivative...? imagine a number δ you can multiply by some other number y and add another number z, where you don't get a linear function with a constant derivative...? 12:17:09 <Taneb> I do not think such language exists 12:17:11 <Taneb> *number 12:17:23 <rdococ> but imagine if there was... that'd be... interesting 12:17:35 <rdococ> more interesting than that nullity bull 12:18:33 <rdococ> also... another idea... there are minus numbers and plus numbers, why can't there be multiplicative numbers or divisional numbers? -3, +4, *2, and /6 12:19:04 <Taneb> That sounds interesting... 12:19:11 <Taneb> It would make arithmetic weird 12:19:20 <mroman> What's the system called where an operation is carried out if enough arguments are available 12:19:21 <Taneb> What is 3 times *4 for example? 12:19:24 <Taneb> Would it be 81? 12:19:30 <rdococ> 3 * *4 = 3 ^ 4 12:19:41 <rdococ> and 3 + *4 = 3 * 4 12:19:47 <mroman> meaning that 5 + 3, + 3 5 and 5 3 + are actually equivalent and are both the same expressions in that system 12:19:53 <Taneb> This makes multiplication non-commutative and non-associative 12:20:00 <Taneb> Maybe addition too 12:20:56 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 12:21:10 <mroman> (they are semantically identical) 12:21:34 <rdococ> and, multiplicative numbers would act like δ as I said - the second derivative of δx+b isn't constant zero 12:22:29 <rdococ> which would be cool 12:22:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:22:37 <Taneb> rdococ, would there be exponential numbers? 12:22:42 <rdococ> yes 12:22:50 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:22:51 <rdococ> 3 + ^4 = 3 ^ 4 12:24:56 <rdococ> 2 - ^2 = square root of 2 12:27:29 <Taneb> What about ^3 ^ ^2? 12:29:41 <ais523> is this some sort of logarithm-based arithmetic? 12:29:58 <APic> =^.^= 12:29:58 <Taneb> ais523, it is where numbers carry operators 12:30:05 <ais523> and + is concatenation? 12:30:42 -!- TieSoul has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 12:32:09 -!- TieSoul has joined. 12:33:13 <Taneb> I think so? 12:33:18 <Taneb> It is rdococ 12:33:20 <Taneb> 's thing 12:35:24 <Taneb> Anyway, I need to figure out what Epsilon is by Friday afternoon 12:36:58 <ais523> @message mauris you can omit the parens in a method call in Lua? you seem to do to that inconsistently, I think I'm missing what the parse rules are for it 12:36:58 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: messages messages-loud messages? 12:37:10 <ais523> @ask mauris you can omit the parens in a method call in Lua? you seem to do to that inconsistently, I think I'm missing what the parse rules are for it 12:37:11 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 12:38:13 -!- GeekDude has joined. 12:38:20 <b_jonas> ais523: you can omit them if the argument is a string literal or table constructor iirc 12:38:23 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 12:38:39 <mroman> Does C11 have generics yet? 12:38:48 <ais523> mroman: it has _Generic, so no 12:38:55 <ais523> (_Generic is sort-of the opposite of generics, in a way) 12:39:07 <b_jonas> ais523: http://www.lua.org/manual/5.3/manual.html#3.4.10 12:39:43 <ais523> huh, I've never actually read the Lua spec 12:39:48 <mroman> Like node_<type>* 12:39:51 <ais523> I guess there'll be some nice bedtime reading for me :-) 12:39:59 <mroman> instead of having node_t with a void* data; pointer 12:40:00 <rdococ> hmm 12:40:12 <mroman> you could have node_<type> with a type* data; pointer 12:40:19 <b_jonas> ais523: asking here is also ok 12:40:42 <mroman> I mean I could do stuff like uhm 12:40:52 <ais523> b_jonas: that requires being oline 12:41:08 <mroman> #define list_int list_t 12:41:14 <mroman> to annotate that this list points to integers 12:41:20 -!- mitchs has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:41:35 <rdococ> imagine an infinite-dimensional polynomial number plane, with units like 1, x, x^2, x^3, x^4, x^5... 12:41:38 <b_jonas> ais523: true. whereas the docs are downloadable 12:41:59 <b_jonas> and the implementation too 12:42:12 <ais523> yep 12:42:15 <mroman> or just name it foo(list_t int_list); 12:42:19 <ais523> I have a standalone Lua impl already but I rarely use it 12:42:27 <ais523> I use it for testing the algorithmic parts of Enigma levels sometimes 12:42:43 <rdococ> a Polynomial datatype, with a number for each exponentiation... 2 + 3x + 4x^2, is stored as the tuple (2, 3, 4)... 12:42:52 <b_jonas> even though I usually have internet connection, I have a lot of things downloaded that I'm not using right now but could be useful 12:42:53 <mroman> does C++ have that? 12:43:00 <mroman> I think C++ has some stuff like that 12:43:02 <b_jonas> I think as you're less often online you probably do that more 12:43:28 <b_jonas> but I have used lua to write at least one signature-length obfu 12:43:47 <mroman> template <typename T> struct node { T* data; node* next; };? 12:44:25 <mroman> I'll guess I'll use a C++ compiler then *only* for the template feature :D 12:44:27 <b_jonas> `lua -e a="for b=2,26 do c=0;for d,e in ipairs({a:byte(1,-1)})do c=(b*c+e)%127 end;io.write(string.char(c))end--$S`U$-}OPX41,@aYH\3\26Q2\23*|>"; loadstring(a) {ambrus} 12:44:28 <HackEgo> ​#wV(@yAa \ "f&`O2s~n 12:44:31 <b_jonas> nope 12:44:36 <b_jonas> but something close to that should work 12:44:48 <b_jonas> `lua -e a="for b=2,26 do c=0;for d,e in ipairs({a:byte(1,-1)})do c=(b*c+e)%127end;io.write(string.char(c))end--$S`U$-}OPX41,@aYH\3\26Q2\23*|>"; loadstring(a) {ambrus} 12:44:49 <HackEgo> lua: (command line):1: attempt to call a nil value \ stack traceback: \ (command line):1: in main chunk \ [C]: in ? 12:44:58 <b_jonas> `lua -e a="for b=2,26 do c=0;for d,e in ipairs({a:byte(1,-1)})do c=(b*c+e)%127end;io.write(string.char(c))\nend--$S`U$-}OPX41,@aYH\3\26Q2\23*|>"; loadstring(a) {ambrus} 12:44:58 <HackEgo> lua: (command line):1: attempt to call a nil value \ stack traceback: \ (command line):1: in main chunk \ [C]: in ? 12:45:03 <b_jonas> meh 12:45:26 <b_jonas> `lua -e a="for b=2,26 do c=0;for d,e in ipairs({a:byte(1,-1)})do c=(b*c+e)%127\nend;io.write(string.char(c))end--$S`U$-}OPX41,@aYH\3\26Q2\23*|>"; loadstring(a) {ambrus} 12:45:27 <HackEgo> Just another Lua hacker, 12:45:29 <b_jonas> right, that 12:45:44 <b_jonas> it's easier when it has an actual newline there 12:46:03 <b_jonas> to fit in an email sig 12:46:39 <b_jonas> this one sucks, I should rewrite it 12:49:33 -!- ethiraric has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:52:37 -!- mitchs has joined. 12:53:03 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 13:00:19 -!- staffehn has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 13:01:28 -!- staffehn has joined. 13:05:15 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:11:52 -!- ethiraric has joined. 13:35:14 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:01:52 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 14:27:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:55:48 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 14:56:08 -!- idris-bot has joined. 15:19:59 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:21:49 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:22:56 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 15:47:42 -!- SopaXT has joined. 15:48:15 -!- gniourf has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:49:31 -!- gniourf has joined. 15:56:15 -!- gniourf has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:57:33 -!- gniourf has joined. 15:57:50 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:58:00 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:04:09 <ais523> b_jonas: is the trailing comma traditional in any language but Perl? 16:04:21 -!- password2 has joined. 16:04:25 <ais523> (actually I don't know why it's there in Perl either, I'm assuming historical reasons; maybe a typo or optimization in the very first JAPH) 16:07:35 <Taneb> Trailing comma? 16:08:02 <ais523> Taneb: the standard output of a JAPH is "Just another Perl hacker,\n" 16:08:13 <Taneb> Aaaaaah 16:08:15 <Taneb> Odd 16:08:30 <ais523> b_jonas's JALH has a trailing comma despite not being in Perl 16:08:43 <Taneb> Just A Lisp Hacker? 16:08:44 <ais523> (and the goal of a JAPH is to print that string in as bizarre a way as possible) 16:08:50 <ais523> Just A Lua Hacker 16:09:05 <Taneb> Aaah 16:09:27 <Taneb> What would be a bizarre language to write a JA*H for 16:10:08 <ais523> Python, although that's probably been done 16:10:09 <ais523> or Java 16:10:22 <ais523> basically languages which aren't meant to have weird corners 16:10:24 <Taneb> Two languages I do not know very well 16:10:28 <ais523> Prolog would be a good one too, but for a different reason 16:10:45 <Taneb> Saying that I do not know many languages very well 16:10:56 <ais523> pick one you do then 16:11:13 <ais523> oh, not Burlesque, the more obvious ways have to be readable 16:11:28 <ais523> there's not much point of doing a JAMH in Malbolge because it doesn't look visually different from any other Malbolge program 16:12:04 <ais523> (Whitespace is the extreme example of that principle, I guess…) 16:13:36 -!- variable has joined. 16:31:03 <Taneb> I am bored I think that I will install a new OS on my laptop 16:32:12 -!- myndzi\ has quit. 16:32:38 <ais523> wait, people get bored? 16:32:59 <ais523> sometimes I get drained of mental energy and can't do anything interesting, but there's always tons of stuff I want to do and don't have time to 16:33:30 <Taneb> ais523, I forget to write those down 16:33:54 <Taneb> And then forget what they are 16:34:45 <Taneb> Actually, I will work on my natural numbers representation 16:37:15 <Taneb> newtype Nat = Nat [Nat] 16:38:31 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:40:12 <ais523> Taneb: with the second Nat there being a constructor? 16:40:17 <Taneb> Yes 16:40:22 <ais523> that seems more general than the naturals, offhand 16:40:37 <Taneb> ais523, with the restriction that the lists are finite and finitely deep 16:41:15 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:41:16 -!- mitchs_ has joined. 16:41:33 -!- Melvar` has joined. 16:43:13 -!- mitchs has quit (*.net *.split). 16:43:14 -!- rdococ has quit (*.net *.split). 16:43:14 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 16:43:14 -!- Melvar has quit (*.net *.split). 16:43:14 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 16:47:09 -!- olsner has joined. 16:48:17 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 16:51:16 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:55:39 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:10:31 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 17:10:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, i still don't get how this representation is meant to work 17:10:49 <Phantom_Hoover> like how do you represent succ 17:11:32 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:14:04 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, https://gist.github.com/Taneb/f2021eab65ba59aa3693 17:14:39 <Taneb> Basically, it's a list of the offsets between the set digits, starting from least significant 17:25:16 <FreeFull> I imagine doing JA*H would work well in J 17:26:24 <ais523> now I'm trying to remember which humour article it was that claimed that C was a recursive acronym 17:27:33 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:27:46 <shachaf> http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2008-02-01.txt 17:22:56: <ais523> like the entry from the IAQ: "C is a recursive acronym. It stands for 'C'." 17:27:58 <ais523> ah right 17:28:18 <ais523> presumably I thought this was amusing even back in 2008 17:28:36 <coppro> IAQ? 17:28:36 <shachaf> `thanks past ais523 17:28:37 <HackEgo> Thanks, past ais523. Thast ais523. 17:28:46 <shachaf> http://www.seebs.net/faqs/c-iaq.html 17:29:00 <ais523> it's basically a parody FAQ for C 17:29:27 <APic> Nice. 17:30:17 <shachaf> `? c 17:30:18 <HackEgo> C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault 17:33:51 <pikhq> Those are some delightful answers. 17:34:12 <shachaf> `wisdom 17:34:13 <HackEgo> indentity function/indentity function is the function that measures how indented source code is. 17:39:33 <J_Arcane> fn main(){for x in 1..101{match(x%3,x%5){(0,0)=>println!("FizzBuzz"),(0,_)=>println!("Fizz"),(_,0)=>println!("Buzz"),_=>println!("{}",x),}}} 17:40:08 <fowl> Rust is esoteric yes 17:40:23 <J_Arcane> :D 17:42:22 <pikhq> Now do it in valid C without headers. 17:42:33 <shachaf> `wisdom 17:42:34 <HackEgo> gazpacho/You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 17:43:08 <ais523> pikhq: is there some trick I'm missing to that (C fizzbuzz without headers)? printf seems like the hardest part but that can be declared manually 17:43:23 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:43:38 <pikhq> ais523: Nah, just that most people don't realize it's legal to declare functions without using headers if you can declare them without reference to types in headers. 17:44:07 <pikhq> At least, it seems like some toolchain devs don't realize it. :P 17:44:10 <ais523> you do have to get the declaration right (unless you're using gcc, which will tell you if you've got it wrong and ignore it, IIRC) 17:44:37 <ais523> one thing many people don't realise is that you can declare things like printf /inside/ functions 17:44:41 <pikhq> Yes, but note that int foo(); is a valid declaration. 17:44:56 <ais523> actually, can't you do something like "extern int x, printf(const char *, ...);"? 17:45:10 <pikhq> Yep. 17:45:26 <pikhq> int printf(); is a full declaration of printf. 17:45:27 -!- gamemanj has joined. 17:46:23 <ais523> pikhq: without the extern? 17:46:31 <pikhq> Yes. 17:46:52 <ais523> hmm, now I need to try to figure out what extern actually does on functions, if anything 17:47:04 <pikhq> This behavior, BTW, means glibc's strerror_r is nonconforming. :) 17:48:12 <pikhq> (as is mingw's printf, but mingw only resembles C if you squint at it anyways) 17:48:59 <ais523> mingw's printf uses 64 to print long longs :-P 17:49:06 <ais523> *mingw's printf uses %I64 to print long longs :-P 17:49:21 <ais523> sorry, forgot that %I in Konversation is an escape for tab, which it renders as "toggle italics" 17:53:51 -!- quietello has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:53:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:00:06 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 18:00:42 -!- idris-bot has joined. 18:08:07 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 18:08:33 -!- idris-bot has joined. 18:10:57 -!- Herbalist has joined. 18:10:58 -!- Herbalist has quit (Changing host). 18:10:58 -!- Herbalist has joined. 18:17:09 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:17:10 <HackEgo> pietbot/Pietbot is the only thing that can defeat fungot. 18:17:22 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:17:23 <HackEgo> oerjan_/oerjan_ is oerjan and ørjan's chimæric clone. he shows up on irc when the network is having trouble. 18:17:42 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/oerjan_ 18:17:44 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott oerjan 18:21:03 <zzo38> If your program uses SQLite, you can still use SQLite's printf functions to print long long numbers in the way compatible with other computers too 18:21:29 <b_jonas> argh 18:21:46 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:22:22 <zzo38> (Another way is you can use #ifdef to check) 18:23:59 <shachaf> zzo38: One time I was playing Magic: The Gathering, and I equipped Executioner's Hood on Chromanticore, thinking it was a good move. 18:24:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:26:36 -!- Anarchist has joined. 18:27:00 -!- Anarchist has changed nick to Guest26937. 18:27:24 <ais523> shachaf: hey, it's still unblockable by the eldrazi titans! 18:27:41 <ais523> (also it has flying anyway…) 18:28:49 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:29:10 <shachaf> There were no Eldrazi in the game. 18:29:35 <ais523> still not a 100% useless move unless you /knew/ there were no Eldrazi in the game :-P 18:29:57 <ais523> (also, Ugin's Herald was recently printed, which is colourless because it couldn't be an artifact for flavour reasons) 18:30:50 -!- Guest26937 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:31:00 <shachaf> The format was "Innistrad and onward". 18:31:29 <ais523> Ugin's Herald is in Dragons of Tarkir, which is the most recent major set 18:31:41 <ais523> also, I didn't realise people still played Extended 18:31:54 <shachaf> This was last year. 18:32:06 <ais523> ah right 18:32:45 <ais523> trying to work out if there are any potential colourless nonartifact creatures under those restrictions 18:32:55 <shachaf> What is Ugin's Herald? 18:33:25 <shachaf> Oh, Scion of Ugin. 18:33:52 <ais523> ah right, I must be remembering the wrong name from somewhere 18:34:35 <J_Arcane> So this seems like a place where people are likely to know; I seem to be confused (or perhaps not and others are) on the distinction between "closure" and "lambda/anonymous function". I've been reading about Rust and Lua a lot lately, and they repeatedly refer to an anonymous function as a "closure," but my understanding was that a closure was rather a specific use of an anonymous function... 18:34:36 <J_Arcane> ...that captures some local state. 18:34:59 <shachaf> A closure isn't necessarily a function at all. 18:35:41 <shachaf> But anyway a closure is a way to implement things that "lexically close" over their environment. 18:35:45 <ais523> J_Arcane: a closure is basically some way of capturing your current local variables in scope 18:35:49 <J_Arcane> Indeed, the terms as explained to me were overlapping but not exclusive: a non-anonymous function can be a closure, and an anonymous function doesn't have to be a closure either. 18:35:49 <ais523> so that you can refer to them later 18:35:57 <shachaf> It can be anonymous or not, and in some cases it doesn't have to be a function at all. 18:36:06 <J_Arcane> I see. 18:36:09 <ais523> they're mostly only useful for nested and anonymous function definitions; I don't think it'd /technically/ have to be for a function but it nearly always is 18:36:44 <ais523> and a "lexical closure" captures lexical scope; I guess you could have a dynamic closure which captures dynamically-scoped variables 18:36:53 <ais523> but that's probably no different to making a copy 18:36:56 <shachaf> In Haskell closures are useful for non-functions. 18:38:38 <zzo38> shachaf: Whether something is a good move usually depends on the situation. 18:39:53 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:40:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:40:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:41:33 <zzo38> For example unblockable by colorless eldrazi cards as mentioned above, or if you just want to unequip it from your other creature 18:42:28 <ais523> most of the cases I can think of where I'd want a creature unequipped - and I wanted to equip it in the first place - it's because something has happened to the equipment to make it hurt the creature it's on 18:42:46 <ais523> in which case, it seems unlikely that I'd have something more valuable than a chromanticore to save 19:01:19 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 19:01:45 <ais523> (OK, so it only costs 5, but it's the most difficult 5) 19:06:27 <shachaf> The context was that I had an artifact deck with all colorless creatures, so Executioner's Hood was great. 19:06:50 <shachaf> And since all my creatures were colorless, I had land colors evenly distributed. 19:07:15 <shachaf> And since I had all sorts of land colors, I put in a Chromanticore. 19:07:52 <shachaf> Under the reasoning that it wasn't colorless but at least it was color-balanced. 19:08:42 <ais523> shachaf: fwiw, those decks which are full of colourless cards normally run colourless lands because they have nice side effects 19:08:45 <ais523> basics are cheaper, though 19:09:20 <ais523> (in Commander, you actually /have/ to run colourless lands in a colourless deck; there are actually enough even for a 100-card deck, but it can be a pain finding them all) 19:10:39 <pikhq> I wish they'd print Cave. 19:11:40 <ais523> pikhq: a basic land that generates {1}? 19:11:45 <ais523> or something else? 19:11:46 <pikhq> Yes. 19:12:01 <Taneb> I need to get more into Magic, but I am refusing to spend money on it 19:12:03 <ais523> pikhq: apparently they've been trying for literally years but it breaks too many things to add another basic land 19:12:04 <pikhq> They were *this* close at one point to printing "Cave. Basic Land - Cave." 19:12:11 <ais523> Taneb: continue not spending money on it 19:12:17 <Taneb> ais523, it is working well so far 19:12:21 <pikhq> ais523: Yeah, it's a rules headache to introduce. 19:12:22 <ais523> you can do what I do, which is to read a lot of articles and not actually play 19:12:22 <Taneb> I have a few friends who lend me decks 19:12:44 <ais523> they've been trying ever since Domain was invented, which is a very long time ago in Magic terms 19:15:19 <shachaf> Taneb: I can give you a bunch of cards when you come visit. 19:15:52 <Taneb> shachaf, I may one day take you up on this offer 19:17:10 <shachaf> limited-time offer 19:17:31 <pikhq> Grrawr, impatience. 19:17:51 <zzo38> But the other reason might be if you want to force opponent to block one of your other cards then you would unequip Executioner's Hood, therefore equip to something else instead. 19:17:56 <Taneb> shachaf, if you can pay for my flights, sure 19:19:59 <pikhq> Flights from Europe? to SFO? are probably pretty pricy. 19:20:22 <ais523> I'd guess in the hundreds of pounds range 19:20:31 <ais523> (also you'd likely need to fly back the other way too) 19:20:46 <ais523> hmm, I wonder how flights compare to ferries, price-wise, over that kind of distance 19:20:54 <ais523> that's the only other viable option and it's much slower 19:21:36 <shachaf> You could fly to the east coast and then hitchhike here. 19:22:03 <ais523> shachaf: hmm, I wouldn't actually expect costs to the east coast and to the west coast to be all that different; I'd expect popular destination / unpopular destination to be more of a factor 19:22:16 <ais523> the US is very wide, and so there'll be fuel and staffing costs going from one side to the other 19:22:23 <shachaf> As I remember it it's somewhat cheaper. 19:22:32 <shachaf> But I could be wrong. 19:22:36 <ais523> but the Atlantic is also wide, and overheads in flying internationally are going to be relevant 19:22:44 <ais523> plus, of course, the standard cost of flying generally 19:22:55 <ais523> anyway, you can get cheaper flights if you're willing to be advertised at constantly en route 19:23:07 <shachaf> Usually transatlantic flights to here consist of two legs. 19:23:15 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:23:23 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, also depends on when you buy the tickets and stuff like that 19:23:30 <pikhq> SFO-London is a well-established direct flight though. 19:23:31 <shachaf> But maybe that's less true for .uk than for .il. 19:23:37 <b_jonas> like, whether they guess it's a popular time or not 19:23:57 <ais523> shachaf: I would be very surprised if there wasn't a direct flight from Heathrow 19:24:03 -!- w00tles has joined. 19:24:09 <shachaf> There probably is. 19:24:09 <ais523> it's got to be one of the most connected airports in the world 19:24:27 <Taneb> There is 19:24:32 <pikhq> ais523: There is, it's one of the top 10 most heavily flown flights between Europe and North America I believe. 19:24:39 <ais523> (this reminds me of Birmingham New Street, actually, the most connected train station in the UK; London doesn't have a single major train station, just lots of small ones) 19:25:17 <ais523> strangely, not all traffic to central Birmingham goes through New Street; some uses Moor Street instead, which is maybe about 200m away from it but on different physical train lines 19:25:24 <ais523> probably just due to not being able to fit all the lines into one station 19:25:30 -!- w00tles has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:25:34 <pikhq> I don't think Heathrow flies direct to that *many* US airports, but SFO is a big damned airport. 19:25:37 <Taneb> > 427 + 269 19:25:39 <lambdabot> 696 19:25:40 <shachaf> Sounds like a conversation for #trains. 19:25:45 <Taneb> OK, 800 there and back 19:25:52 -!- w00tles has joined. 19:26:00 <shachaf> Taneb: whoa whoa whoa 19:26:02 <Taneb> In late September, on British Airways 19:26:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:26:10 <shachaf> You want me to pay for a flight back, too? 19:26:26 <Taneb> Well, BA there, AA back, there direct, back via Dallas 19:26:34 <Taneb> shachaf, I did say my flights 19:26:35 <pikhq> Well, customs gets pissy when you don't have a visa and don't have a return flight. 19:26:45 -!- w00tles has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:26:51 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, but mind you, some of that stuff was probably built when the city was smaller and is very hard to change now 19:27:08 -!- w00tles has joined. 19:27:13 <b_jonas> like, in Budapest, trains can enter from three directions, somewhat corresponding to the three main railway station endpoints but not completely, 19:27:21 <ais523> b_jonas: actually, what happened with Birmingham Moor Street was, they had a reasonably large station there 19:27:39 <ais523> then decided they needed a through line, which they built a bit too far from the station, and so they made a new Moor Street station and closed the old one 19:27:49 <ais523> and then it grew enough that nowadays they use both stations 19:27:54 <ais523> and made them into one continuous building 19:28:35 <b_jonas> and this results in two big cuts in Pest cutting it to three pieces, where there's only train tracks in the cuts, and other vehicles can't cross at all, because no road can cross the trains, and even pedestrians can't go through 19:29:00 <b_jonas> so if you look at the car map of Budapest, there's basically the Danube which you can cross only on bridges, plus a smaller cut from the two mountains, plus these two big cuts 19:29:11 <b_jonas> and it's even worse by bus 19:29:45 <b_jonas> so for any place in Pest that's not in the city, the route there is obvious: 19:29:48 <b_jonas> by bus that is 19:30:20 <b_jonas> if it's near Újpest, to the north of Rákosrendező, you have to take metro 3 to the north then change to a bus; 19:30:37 <b_jonas> if it's in the middle between Rákosrendező and Keleti, take metro 2 and change to a bus; 19:30:50 <b_jonas> if it's on the south, take metro 3 to the south and then take a bus. 19:31:27 <b_jonas> all three metros don't reach far enough, so a large part of the outer town is covered by buses only from the terminus of the metro or two or three other metro stations close to the terminus 19:31:37 <ais523> b_jonas: is the metro a sort of local train line? and does it run underground? 19:31:49 <ais523> (the word "metro" is used for a huge number of different things in English) 19:31:53 <b_jonas> yes, the metro is mostly undreground, 19:32:04 <b_jonas> it does come up to the surface near some of the ends 19:32:36 <b_jonas> there's now three of them, metro 3 is the biggest and covers north and south, and is underground everywhere except the very end at south 19:33:29 <b_jonas> metro 2 covers east and comes up to above ground near the end for the last two stations, 19:33:48 <ais523> hmm 19:33:54 <ais523> London has way more than 3 underground lines 19:34:19 <b_jonas> metro 2 also goes a bit to north-Buda, which is traditionally considered the rich part of Budapest, so most people have cars, but for those who don't, the tram lines are getting somewhat improved in the future hopefully, 19:34:22 <ais523> whereas Birmingham doesn't have an underground system, but has an above-ground train system that links to pretty much all areas of the city, also one tram 19:34:31 <b_jonas> and metro 4 is new and covers south-Buda 19:35:00 <Taneb> Newcastle has a weird undergroundy overgroundy thing with poor coverage of the west of the city 19:35:03 <ais523> (some of the lines go underground very near the centre, but they're all /mostly/ above-ground) 19:35:06 <Taneb> York has nothing of the sort 19:35:27 <b_jonas> technically there's also metro line 1 which is different, it covers only the city, and isn't deep underground, but immediately below roads 19:35:54 <ais523> London's underground lines get deeper and deeper the newer they are 19:36:07 <ais523> the really old ones, they just cut the ground open, built the line, then built a roof over it 19:36:22 <ais523> the newest ones they're boring through rock 19:36:35 <b_jonas> there are also HÉVs, which are trains that _should_ ideally be continuation of the metros that cover the farther parts of the town and the agglomeration, 19:36:40 <ais523> and sometimes it takes longer to walk down to the train line, then back up again at the destination, than it takes the train to get from station to statin 19:36:47 <b_jonas> and ideally should be just the continuation of the metros, 19:36:58 <b_jonas> but there's two problems with that idea, 19:37:21 <b_jonas> one is that some of them are placed inconveniently and don't match the metros, but only trams, 19:37:46 <b_jonas> and the other is that for all kinds of stupid policy reasons they just can't be converted to get connected with the metro even where it could work. 19:40:20 <b_jonas> and they all go above ground, but they're not metro because, and they're also not train which anyone can tell from how you need different tickets, there's no toilets on the carriages, the rules for bicycles is different, and the tracks have designated directions, namely right hand side on most lines, but left hand side on the eastbound lines. 19:40:43 <b_jonas> so basically, there's metros and HÉV and trams and they're unconnectible and don't ever form a sane system. 19:42:03 <b_jonas> s/trams/trains/ 19:43:19 <b_jonas> the trams are actually different 19:43:39 <b_jonas> trams work like road traffic, they often have to wait for traffic lights together with cars, or even wait for cars to pass, 19:44:29 <b_jonas> whereas road traffic always has to yield to trains and HÉV at level crossings because those can't stop. 19:44:46 <b_jonas> but the metro and HÉV situation is just stupid and traditional 19:46:19 -!- w00tles has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:46:51 -!- w00tles has joined. 19:54:42 -!- quietello has joined. 19:59:33 -!- nys has joined. 19:59:44 <FireFly> In Stockholm we have two relatively shallow lines, one deeper line behind those two, and then they're building a commuter rail tunnel that's going to go below /that/ line 19:59:59 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa 20:00:05 <shachaf> You're in Stockholm? 20:00:08 <FireFly> Yes 20:00:18 <FireFly> I thought you knew that 20:00:51 <shachaf> I thought you were in .fi. 20:00:57 <shachaf> I might be confusing you with someone else. 20:00:57 <FireFly> Nope 20:01:02 <FireFly> Probably, yeah 20:01:22 <shachaf> I was in Stockholm once. Twice. 20:01:45 <FireFly> What did you do here? 20:01:54 <shachaf> I was 3 years old the first time. 20:02:05 <FireFly> I think it's a pretty boring city, but I guess that's because I'm just too used to it 20:02:07 <FireFly> Ah. 20:02:42 <shachaf> The second time we went to one or more museums. 20:02:55 <shachaf> I must've been 15 years old. 20:03:01 <shachaf> Museums aren't usually my thing. 20:03:08 <FireFly> Perhaps you saw our excellent example of engineering; a ship that broke after a couple km 20:03:17 <shachaf> That was the one. 20:03:35 <FireFly> It's probably the most popular museum here 20:03:54 <shachaf> I also met some friends and/or relations. 20:05:34 <olsner> I was also surprised about FireFly being in stockholm, but I think I was confusing you with Vorpal 20:06:21 <FireFly> I remember Vorpal being in the middle of the forest somewhere 20:06:29 <FireFly> Maybe in Värmland or something? I don't know 20:07:02 <olsner> I think he told me some time, but I don't remember where 20:13:19 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Bbs). 20:18:36 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 20:24:42 -!- TieSoul has joined. 20:30:22 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:35:48 -!- TieSoul has joined. 20:42:12 -!- mitchs_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:42:21 -!- mitchs_ has joined. 20:47:06 -!- shachaf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:47:14 -!- shachaf has joined. 20:51:51 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 21:03:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:03:43 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:04:26 <ais523> huh, xkcd was in an esolangy mood recently: http://xkcd.com/1537/ 21:04:50 <ais523> I thought those examples might be from an actual language for a while, but clearly they aren't 21:04:56 <ais523> thus, must definitely be in esolang territory 21:10:46 <nys> i think it might be a take on that javascript wat thing 21:10:50 -!- Herbalist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:11:08 <ais523> or PHP 21:11:17 <ais523> many languages do that sort of thing, but not so extreme 21:11:23 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:11:50 -!- Herbalist has joined. 21:13:12 <Taneb> ais523, we had a discussion trying to figure it out 21:13:42 <ais523> I don't think there /is/ a pattern, and I think that's the point 21:14:02 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:14:03 <HackEgo> recursion/You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW 21:15:07 <Taneb> ais523, [1], [2], [4], are just weird casting, [13] is just an unusual floor function 21:15:19 <Taneb> [5] I think is oddly greedy quote marks 21:15:28 <Taneb> [3] is normal 21:15:33 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:15:33 <ais523> [5] is great 21:15:34 <HackEgo> lie/Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups. 21:15:44 <Taneb> [10] is working out the line number + 2 21:15:51 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 21:15:55 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:16:11 <Taneb> [11] add 2 to the number 2, so whenever there is a 2 in the future there is a 4 instead (see [12]^W[14]) 21:16:11 <ais523> I can't explain [2] with weird cast rules though 21:16:22 <ais523> Taneb: oh, 11 is Forte-style? I missed that 21:16:58 <Taneb> ais523, I think it's casting "2" to an int, then to a list of ints, then appending the two lists, then turning the whole thing into a string 21:17:16 <ais523> Taneb: exactly, there's no reason to turn the whole thing into a string at the end 21:17:24 <ais523> other than that a string was involved to start with 21:17:30 <Taneb> I did specify weird casting rules, right? 21:17:45 <ais523> or, maybe this is an everything-is-a-string language like Perl is when it doesn't leak implementation details? 21:18:12 <Taneb> I don't really know what [6] through [8] are doing, though 21:18:21 <ais523> IMO, philosophically, in Perl, if you write (say) 10 that's really just sugar for the string "10", and the fact that it's stored internally as an int is an implementation detail 21:18:43 <Taneb> Well, [8] is making fun of IEEE floating point 21:18:46 <ais523> Taneb: in [8], the idea is that the denominator is approximately 0 21:18:54 <ais523> thus, dividing 2 by it gives you a NaN with a rounding error 21:19:08 <ais523> (although that specific example doesn't work because it's using powers of 2) 21:20:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:23:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:40:55 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:52:00 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:02:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:08:18 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 22:10:50 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:22:39 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:25:08 -!- Wright has joined. 22:30:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hppavilion1 * New user account 22:32:02 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 22:33:11 -!- aretecode has joined. 22:35:27 -!- polytone has quit (Quit: "I can hear myself... I think I'm a bit afraid."). 22:36:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Damarok]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43214 * Hppavilion1 * (+243) Created Article (I'm so sorry) 22:36:46 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 22:37:47 <hppavilion1> THE FIRST PROGRAM A PROGRAMMER WRITES 22:37:56 <hppavilion1> </damarok> 22:42:11 <hppavilion1> Hello? 22:45:56 <ais523> hi 22:47:42 <shachaf> `wisdom 22:48:00 <HackEgo> off by two/An off by two error is what happens when you expect an off by one error but compensate in the wrong direction 22:48:16 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/off by two 22:48:22 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott olsner 22:49:14 <shachaf> `wisdom 22:49:16 <HackEgo> mroman_/mroman_ is probably mroman but you can never be sure. (NSFW) 22:49:22 -!- monotone has joined. 22:50:04 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/culprit 22:50:07 <HackEgo> badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom 22:51:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43215&oldid=42034 * Hppavilion1 * (+403) /* Category: Libraries */ new section 22:51:47 <pikhq> It feels a bit like magic sometimes, cooking. 22:52:20 <pikhq> I mean, somehow some flour, salt, baking powder, butter, milk, and sausage turned into biscuits and gravy. 22:52:54 <hppavilion1> Oh 22:52:59 <hppavilion1> That's cool 22:53:07 <hppavilion1> It notified you whesomething 22:57:46 <hppavilion1> When something happens 22:58:18 <hppavilion1> They better have programmed that in modified BrainFuck or something 22:59:00 <pikhq> HackEgo is weird, but in a way different from what you expect. 22:59:21 <pikhq> Each command is a Linux program. It spawns a Linux kernel, runs that program, and outputs the result. 22:59:38 <pikhq> Now, if you want an esolang bot, you need look no further than fungot. 22:59:38 <fungot> pikhq: depends on the order i described it roughly earlier. have a happy fnord i am 22:59:41 <pikhq> fungot is in Befunge. 22:59:41 <fungot> pikhq: as a fnord 22:59:45 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:00:48 <hppavilion1> I love befunge 23:00:51 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:00:57 <pikhq> It's a pretty neat language. 23:01:04 <hppavilion1> I tried implementing it yesterday 23:01:12 <hppavilion1> Hello World won't work 23:01:31 <ais523> hppavilion1: -93 or -98? 23:01:32 <hppavilion1> I promised anyone reading my commits I'd get it working today... 23:01:36 <ais523> anyway, if you haven't seen it yet 23:01:37 <hppavilion1> 98 23:01:40 <ais523> get hold of a copy of Mycology 23:01:46 <ais523> it'll catch a ton of common mistakes 23:01:46 <hppavilion1> I heard about it 23:01:48 <ais523> `? mycology 23:01:49 <HackEgo> mycology? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:01:56 <ais523> why do we not have actually useful information in the learndb? :-( 23:02:12 <hppavilion1> I was reading the ideas list 23:02:45 <ais523> `learn mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/ 23:02:47 <HackEgo> Learned 'mycology': mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/ 23:02:55 <pikhq> Befunge-98 is kinda hard to implement. 23:02:56 <ais523> hppavilion1: definitely read that, it'll probably tell you what your interp is doing wrong 23:03:09 <hppavilion1> And stumled across an idea for a language called Darmok 23:03:13 <pikhq> Befunge-93 is not very hard, but it's also not that interesting to have an implementation for. :) 23:03:34 <hppavilion1> So I created a page for it. I apologized in the notes 23:03:44 <ais523> Befunge-98 is a great language to impl, though 23:03:51 <ais523> there are several Mycology-passing interps now I think 23:03:56 <hppavilion1> Darmok, if you aren't aware, is an episode of ST:TNG. Apparently 23:04:05 <hppavilion1> Though probably almost no compilers :P 23:04:37 <hppavilion1> In Darmok, they encouter a species that communicates completely through metaphors and references to local mythology 23:04:43 <hppavilion1> Or something like that 23:04:54 <hppavilion1> They take a while to figure it out 23:04:54 <pikhq> True. It's hard to implement, but hard to implement in interesting ways. 23:04:58 <hppavilion1> Yep 23:05:05 <pikhq> And a Befunge-98 implementation can actually do neat things. 23:05:55 <hppavilion1> "Terminate Sibling" for example, would be CAIN AND ABEL IN THE GARDEN (if "terminate sibling" is even a real command) 23:06:24 <ais523> it's actually an operation that can be done on threads that makes sense, and might potentially be slightly useful on occasion 23:06:25 <pikhq> What, though, does DARMOK AND JILAD AT TENAGRA mean? 23:06:33 <hppavilion1> Yep 23:06:41 <hppavilion1> I don't know 23:06:45 <ais523> e.g. if you're doing some sort of threaded exhaustive search and only need one result 23:06:53 <pikhq> Or, indeed, GILGAMESH AND ENKIDU AT URUK? 23:07:05 <hppavilion1> I think that Damarok the language would also only reference real mythology 23:07:08 <hppavilion1> One sec 23:07:16 <hppavilion1> I don't remember how the epic of gilgamesh goes 23:07:31 * pikhq was just referencing the episode; don't mind me 23:07:35 <ais523> the problem isn't so much finding something for your commands to do, though, but finding some way to express the commands you need 23:07:41 <hppavilion1> Yes 23:07:42 <hppavilion1> Libraries 23:07:48 <ais523> or, well, you can just add a ton of commands and hope they add up to something TC 23:07:53 <ais523> (see: initial Snowflake) 23:07:56 <hppavilion1> The problem would be that there would ALWAYS be libraries needed 23:08:04 <hppavilion1> And everyone would implement them differently 23:08:06 <ais523> actually that was awkward because I needed a pretty exact amount of computational power 23:08:41 <hppavilion1> So they'd need to implement the entirety of some libraries on their own 23:09:13 <ais523> hppavilion1: that's not so dissimilar from INTERCAL, we solved the problem by encouraging people to submit them to a centralised repo 23:09:14 <hppavilion1> I think to terminate a sibling you would type "CAIN AND ABEL IN THE GARDEN, WHERE ABEL IS <sibling>" 23:09:21 <hppavilion1> Yep 23:09:24 <ais523> so they could use each other's libraries 23:09:24 <hppavilion1> Aaaaaah 23:09:29 <hppavilion1> That makes sense 23:09:41 <ais523> (even more a problem in INTERCAL because all line numbers are global, so you need to avoid clashes between different libaries) 23:09:56 <hppavilion1> Oh :/ 23:10:24 <hppavilion1> So I think that every statement would have two clauses (well, one main clause and an arguments clause), separated by the comma 23:10:33 <hppavilion1> The COMMAND clause and the WHERE clause 23:10:48 <hppavilion1> The command clause is the reference to mythology 23:11:21 <hppavilion1> And the WHERE clause is substitutions (which are needed for formality) 23:11:44 <hppavilion1> So "CAIN AND ABEL IN THE GARDEN, WHERE ABEL IS <sibling>" means to kill a process of name <sibling> 23:12:13 <hppavilion1> "CAIN AND ABEL IN THE GARDEN" alone would... I don't know... Kill the next sibling sequentially? 23:12:20 <hppavilion1> And commands are separated by newlines 23:12:21 <ais523> <Deewiant> mycology.b98 tests every fingerprint that I am aware of, apart from FNGR, SGNL, and WIND. ← it doesn't test IFFI :-( 23:13:17 <hppavilion1> Of course that doesn't account for complex statements... 23:13:23 <ais523> I think IFFI postdates Mycology, though 23:14:16 <hppavilion1> Name a famous decision from popular folklore/mythology 23:14:29 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:15:29 <ais523> crossing the Rubicon? although that's more historical rather than mythological 23:15:56 <hppavilion1> Don't know what that was. Let me check 23:17:27 <ais523> Julius Caesar taking his part of the Roman Army into Italy (which was totally illegal), thus sparking a civil war 23:17:34 <hppavilion1> CEASER CROSSING THE RUBICON, WHERE CONDITION IS <condition> AND CROSSING IS:\n\t<stuff to do> 23:17:42 <hppavilion1> Or something like that 23:17:55 <ais523> hppavilion1: note that you don't really want to just design an imperative language with the keywords swapped out 23:18:06 <hppavilion1> I know 23:18:07 <ais523> because it isn't really interesting 23:18:12 <hppavilion1> This is just a prototype 23:18:12 <hppavilion1> I know 23:18:18 <hppavilion1> I hate langs like that 23:18:33 <hppavilion1> But I'm currently just creating some basic ideas 23:19:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:20:10 <ais523> huh, there's an interesting debate about what exactly Caesar said when crossing the river 23:20:19 <hppavilion1> http://github.com/hppavilion1/Damarok 23:20:22 <hppavilion1> There 23:20:25 <ais523> although it's widely agreed how it's translated into English, there's some debate about the word order of the original and whether it was in Latin or Greek 23:20:42 <hppavilion1> That's the repo where we'll put code 23:24:15 -!- hppavilion1_ has joined. 23:24:23 <hppavilion1_> I'm back 23:24:37 <hppavilion1_> Now I have an _ in my name :/ 23:24:50 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:26:43 <hppavilion1_> So 23:27:04 <hppavilion1_> What can we do to make it less keyword-swapout-y 23:28:07 -!- Wright has joined. 23:28:15 -!- Herbalist has joined. 23:28:40 <hppavilion1_> Ideally it'd be able to take a set of metaphors and interpret what they mean, but that'd require a prize-winning AI that probably would lag normal computers to hell 23:29:44 <coppro> `wisdom intercal 23:29:45 <HackEgo> ​ /The final frontier. 23:30:09 <shachaf> `wisdom doesn't work that way hth 23:30:10 <HackEgo> shiasdayviaerqjjjjjjjj/shiasdayviaerqjjjjjjjj is the reason why the USA don't use the metric system. 23:30:17 <hppavilion1_> `wisdom walrus 23:30:19 <HackEgo> relevant info/The large-eyed mouse lemur is a nocturnal tree-dweller. 23:30:19 <shachaf> Should `wisdom be merged with `? ? 23:30:36 <hppavilion1_> `wisdom YOUR MUM 23:30:37 <HackEgo> fiora/Fiora is half JRPG fangirl, half SIMD dork, and all sucrose. She's a sous-chef who shushes sushi. 23:31:04 <FireFly> I'm pretty sure Fiora isn't shachaf's mum 23:31:10 <ais523> coppro: you probably meant `? 23:31:13 <hppavilion1_> `wisdom wisdom 23:31:14 <HackEgo> twh/twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 23:31:15 <hppavilion1_> I think I broke it :P 23:31:19 <hppavilion1_> No 23:31:23 <FireFly> No, it doesn't take any parameter 23:31:27 <ais523> hppavilion1_: hint: `wisdom ignores any arguments 23:31:30 <ais523> `? wisdom 23:31:31 <coppro> `? intercal 23:31:35 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 23:31:38 <HackEgo> INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market. 23:31:47 <pikhq> Huh, it's been a while since Fiora's been here, hasn't it? 23:31:49 <FireFly> `? øvrigt 23:31:49 <HackEgo> ​øvrigt? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:31:56 <coppro> `? c++ 23:31:57 <HackEgo> Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people. 23:32:01 <FireFly> pikhq: yeah, I think she left around the time when kmc left 23:32:02 <hppavilion1_> `wisdom 23:32:03 <coppro> `? java 23:32:12 <HackEgo> java? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:32:13 <HackEgo> zork/Zork is like York, except for the first letter. 23:32:15 <hppavilion1_> `help 23:32:15 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 23:32:19 <pikhq> kmc left too? Nooooo 23:32:29 <pikhq> What's next, no ehird? 23:32:30 <coppro> `learn java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures 23:32:35 <HackEgo> Learned 'java': java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures 23:32:39 <hppavilion1_> `learn 23:32:40 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/learn: line 3: wisdom/: Is a directory \ Learned '': 23:33:03 <ais523> even I've been known to leave this channel for long periods of time, because it wasn't ontopic enough 23:33:06 <ais523> although it's been fine recently 23:33:15 <hppavilion1_> `learn yo mama so fat, insert joke here 23:33:17 <HackEgo> Learned 'yo': yo mama so fat, insert joke here 23:33:26 <shachaf> `revert 23:33:28 <hppavilion1_> OK 23:33:31 <hppavilion1_> I'm done 23:33:35 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 23:33:35 <ais523> shachaf: I was about to `revert but I think we might have reverted each other 23:33:44 <FireFly> alas, it's undone 23:33:54 <ais523> we /still/ have a broken canary in the system somewhere? 23:33:56 <hppavilion1_> `? java 23:33:56 <HackEgo> java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures 23:34:05 <FireFly> Yeah, it seems it messed up the history somehow 23:34:05 <hppavilion1_> `? you 23:34:08 <HackEgo> you a haskell 23:34:10 <hppavilion1_> `? yo 23:34:11 <HackEgo> yo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:34:12 <FireFly> or rather, it's messed up because of the history, somehow 23:34:38 <hppavilion1_> `learn haskell is the most beautiful language ever invented 23:34:42 <hppavilion1_> `? haskell 23:35:02 * FireFly wonders if hppavilion1_'s client chose a nick based on the computer's name, or if it's an actual nickname 23:35:24 <hppavilion1_> I chose the nick when I was 7 and didn't want to forget my username 23:35:30 <HackEgo> No output. 23:35:33 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 23:35:33 <FireFly> I see 23:35:35 <hppavilion1_> It's usually hppavilion1, but my browser timed out 23:35:44 <FireFly> You can /nick hppavilion1 23:35:50 -!- hppavilion1_ has changed nick to hppavilion1. 23:35:54 <hppavilion1> Yay 23:35:58 <hppavilion1> I'm normal now 23:36:03 <FireFly> It annoys me that my brain lexes it as hpp|avilion|1 23:36:13 <hppavilion1> Heh 23:36:47 <hppavilion1> h-p-pavilion-one 23:37:22 <hppavilion1> `help 23:37:22 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 23:37:34 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed wisdom/yo 23:37:36 <HackEgo> changeset: 5605:a4afa9eaa9ff \ tag: tip \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Jun 17 23:35:10 2015 +0000 \ summary: <hppavilion1_> learn yo mama so fat, insert joke here 23:37:38 <shachaf> This is interesting. 23:37:42 <shachaf> `cat wisdom/yo 23:37:42 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/yo: No such file or directory 23:37:45 <shachaf> `` hg cat wisdom/yo 23:37:46 <HackEgo> yo mama so fat, insert joke here 23:38:08 <hppavilion1> So 23:38:17 <shachaf> It seems that revert isn't actually working. 23:38:29 <shachaf> Or it isn't modifying the hg repository, even if it's modifying the working directory? 23:38:37 <hppavilion1> We're designing an EsoLang called Damarok 23:38:46 <shachaf> fizzie: what's going on twh 23:39:26 <hppavilion1> It is kewlzez 23:39:49 <hppavilion1> It uses references to mythology and metaphor 23:40:08 <hppavilion1> I have no clue how to implement it short of brute force regexes 23:40:28 <FireFly> That sounds like an inefficient implementation 23:40:35 <hppavilion1> It would be 23:40:49 <hppavilion1> Well, sorted dictionary regexes 23:41:02 <hppavilion1> Not literal brute force 23:43:14 <hppavilion1> And I suppose it would only sort #included libs 23:44:29 <hppavilion1> So it isn't TOO inefficient 23:44:39 <shachaf> FireFly: also you should set up /hilight on ireFly\b 23:45:03 <hppavilion1> It's more of a thought experiment language and something to use for mindbendingness, not for implementing stuff 23:45:20 <FireFly> shachaf: I probably should, just for you. What channel did I miss it in now? 23:45:31 <shachaf> who knows 23:45:56 <shachaf> How many are you in? 23:46:16 <hppavilion1> I just use 1 because it's soooo much easier 23:47:06 <hppavilion1> And I'm new to IRC 23:50:52 <tswett> I'm not sure that my newer SLOBOL language can be run faster than double exponential time. 23:51:16 <hppavilion1> 0.o 23:51:21 <hppavilion1> Double exponential time!? 23:51:40 * hppavilion1 DDGs double exponential time, though he's pretty sure he knows what it means 23:52:52 <shachaf> double exponential time is exponential time approximated with double-precision floating point arithmetic 23:52:53 <hppavilion1> Yup 23:52:56 <hppavilion1> Oh 23:53:07 <shachaf> `wisdom 23:53:08 <HackEgo> macabre/The Macabres have been the hereditary rulers of Lochaber for 3 centuries. 23:53:11 <hppavilion1> I thought it was x^(y^z) 23:53:31 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:53:33 <tswett> shachaf is joking. 23:53:37 <hppavilion1> Oh 23:53:48 <hppavilion1> Jokes don't go through text very well 23:53:57 <hppavilion1> For me, at least 23:54:01 <hppavilion1> At least that kind 23:54:14 <hppavilion1> That SPECIFIC joke doesn't translate 23:54:32 <hppavilion1> `walrus 23:54:33 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: walrus: not found 23:54:41 <hppavilion1> `kill 23:54:45 <HackEgo> ​ \ Usage: \ kill [options] <pid> [...] \ \ Options: \ <pid> [...] send signal to every <pid> listed \ -<signal>, -s, --signal <signal> \ specify the <signal> to be sent \ -l, --list=[<signal>] list all signal names, or convert one to a name \ -L, --table list all signal names in a nice table \ 23:54:51 <tswett> If a SLOBOL program contains n points, then the easiest upper bound on the number of ways of executing the program is (3^n)!. 23:55:04 <hppavilion1> Ah 23:55:17 <hppavilion1> (3^b)! !? 23:55:28 <tswett> (3^b)!, if b = n. 23:55:29 <hppavilion1> I must now open wolfram alpha and see that graphed 23:56:01 <hppavilion1> OW 23:56:03 <hppavilion1> *Wow 23:56:38 <hppavilion1> O(70) at ~1 23:56:40 <tswett> For 0, it's 1; for 1, it's 6; for 2, it's 362880; for 3, it's 10888869450418352160768000000; for 4, it's 5797126020747367985879734231578109105412357244731625958745865049716390179693892056256184534249745940480000000000000000000; and so on. 23:57:09 <hppavilion1> Wow 23:57:16 <hppavilion1> That's slooooooooow 23:57:19 <tswett> This is just for a naive implementation, though. 23:57:20 <hppavilion1> What language did you use? 23:57:28 <tswett> I haven't actually implemented it. 23:57:30 <hppavilion1> Oh 23:57:40 <hppavilion1> What language do you plan to use? 23:57:47 <tswett> I'm not planning to implement it, either. 23:57:47 <hppavilion1> If you plan to do it 23:57:59 <hppavilion1> I guess it wouldn't be very effective :P 23:58:06 * hppavilion1 facepalms himsel 23:58:07 <hppavilion1> f 23:58:34 <shachaf> higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / leave them perplexed 23:58:47 <hppavilion1> Fair enough 23:58:55 <shachaf> hm, in retrospect that could be seen as slightly rude tdnh 23:59:02 <hppavilion1> It could 23:59:04 <hppavilion1> But I'm fine with it 23:59:10 <hppavilion1> Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait 23:59:18 <hppavilion1> :P 23:59:41 <shachaf> s/leave them/be left/ 2015-06-18: 00:00:21 <hppavilion1> I'm a guy, in case you're wondering. 00:01:03 <shachaf> was not wondering 00:01:13 <tswett> `? tdnh 00:01:13 <HackEgo> tdnh does not help 00:01:18 <tswett> `? hth 00:01:20 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 00:01:21 <hppavilion1> You used "they" 00:01:37 <tswett> Ah yes, hairy toe help. 00:02:19 <shachaf> i suppose h stands for hewlett and not higgledy 00:02:32 <tswett> I wonder what HackEgo knows about me. 00:02:36 <tswett> `? tswett 00:02:37 <HackEgo> tswett is livin' it up with the penguins 00:02:51 <hppavilion1> `? hppavilion1 00:02:51 <HackEgo> hppavilion1? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:02:55 <FireFly> shachaf: about 50 00:03:12 <tswett> Hey hppavilion1, want me to ask my neural net to come up with a random quote from you? 00:03:19 <shachaf> 50 what? 00:03:20 <hppavilion1> `learn hppavilion1 is higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / leave them perplexed 00:03:22 <hppavilion1> That works too 00:03:23 <shachaf> Oh, channels. 00:03:25 <HackEgo> Learned 'hppavilion1': hppavilion1 is higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / leave them perplexed 00:03:42 <hppavilion1> `? hppavilion1 00:03:43 <HackEgo> hppavilion1 is higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / leave them perplexed 00:04:11 <FireFly> shachaf: channels 00:04:31 <FireFly> reading scrollback on a phone is a bit annoying 00:04:33 <tswett> All right, here's your randomly generated quote. 00:04:34 <tswett> 20:05:57: <hppavilion1> lambdabot hackenv/[Nines use length a channel definition transport for the bit really sufficient include branching mode, 10 particular thing though.... 00:04:35 <shachaf> `` sed -i -e 's/\w\+ \w\+ //' -e 's/leave them/be left/' wisdom/hppavilion1 00:04:37 <HackEgo> No output. 00:05:05 <FireFly> Although on that note I should get my phone keyboard after midsummer 00:05:15 <hppavilion1> `? hppavilion` 00:05:17 <hppavilion1> `? hppavilion1 00:05:19 <FireFly> so that will help. 00:05:19 <HackEgo> hppavilion`? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:05:20 <HackEgo> higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed 00:05:43 <shachaf> FireFly: Are you coming visit for some poutine and Magic: The Gathering cards? 00:06:12 <FireFly> You're in SF or something, aren't you? 00:06:26 <shachaf> more or less 00:06:27 <shachaf> @metar KOAK 00:06:28 <lambdabot> KOAK 172353Z 29014KT 10SM FEW180 18/10 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP128 T01780100 10206 20172 58004 00:06:39 <shachaf> Maybe pikhq is coming here too? 00:07:02 <FireFly> I don't think I'll visit anytime soon, but if I do I wouldn't mind poutine and Magic 00:07:19 <shachaf> limited-time offer hth 00:07:31 <FireFly> Although I haven't played a lot of MtG and would be really terrible 00:08:16 <FireFly> I've never had poutine. How is it? 00:08:20 <shachaf> Not my thing. 00:09:00 <pikhq> It seems very likely I'll be in SF. 00:09:23 <pikhq> I technically don't have the job offer yet, but I should tomorrow. 00:09:35 <shachaf> i,i because in all of the whole human race, mrs. lovett, there are two kinds of men and only two: there's the one staying poutine his proper place, and the one with his foot in the other one's face 00:09:41 <shachaf> pikhq: SF, not MTV? 00:09:52 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 00:09:58 <pikhq> shachaf: Okay, I'll actually be in MTV or thereabouts. 00:10:03 <shachaf> Ah. 00:10:05 <shachaf> A lot of people I know are going to work in the SF office these days. 00:10:12 <shachaf> Surprising given that it's such a small office. 00:10:14 <pikhq> Apparently some Google employees commute from SF to MTV, but... fuck that. 00:10:32 <shachaf> pikhq: Well, you do get a fancy gentrification bus. 00:10:46 <FireFly> I do wonder what it's like to live in SF 00:10:58 <FireFly> with this... tech company culture 00:10:59 <shachaf> Something about flour in your hair, I think. 00:11:12 <pikhq> I'd prefer not to spend an hour on a bus that's powered by the tears of victims of a failure to build houses. 00:11:29 <ais523> pikhq: that seems like a very inefficient power source 00:11:45 <pikhq> Yes, but in copious supply in SF. 00:12:15 <shachaf> Commuting from SF to MTV isn't uncommon, and not just for Google employees. 00:12:23 <shachaf> It's a pretty backwards situation. 00:12:39 <FireFly> Is one hour a long commute for you? 00:13:18 <FireFly> I commuted one hour to university for a few years, but now I almost live on-campus 00:14:09 <FireFly> I don't think an hour was too bad, although I wouln't want to commute for longer than that. 00:14:10 <pikhq> It's decently long and I hate commute times. 00:14:49 <shachaf> I commute ~6 minutes in the morning, or less if I walk quickly. 00:18:03 <zzo38> What I would want though is the Magic: the Puzzling printed out many ones. 00:20:08 <zzo38> Make up some if you know what to make up 00:24:21 <shachaf> `` echo -n 'FireFly: '; '?' sleep 00:24:22 <HackEgo> FireFly: Sleep is for the weak. 00:24:46 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/sleep 00:24:48 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott oerjan 00:26:44 <FireFly> You should bin/'ify that as maybe `@ 00:26:56 <FireFly> `@ FireFly sleep 00:26:57 <HackEgo> No output. 00:27:06 <shachaf> `cat bin/@ 00:27:06 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ $_ = join " ", @ARGV; if (s/^([^ ]*) +([^ ]*) +//) { print "$1: "; exec $2, $_; } 00:27:17 <FireFly> Huh. 00:27:24 <shachaf> `@ FireFly ? sleep 00:27:25 <HackEgo> FireFly: Sleep is for the weak. 00:27:36 <shachaf> `culprits bin/@ 00:27:36 <FireFly> Useful 00:27:37 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan elliott Gregor shachaf shachaf elliott elliott nitia 00:27:42 <shachaf> `thanks nitia 00:27:43 <HackEgo> Thanks, nitia. Thitia. 00:28:12 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed bin/@ | grep summary: 00:28:13 <HackEgo> summary: <oerjan> revert \ summary: <oerjan> sed -i \'2s!s/!s/no\\+dl/nooodl/;s/!\' bin/? \ summary: <elliott> mv ibin/"@" bin \ summary: <Gregor> mkdir ibin; for i in bin/*; do if [ "`grep \'\\. lib/interp\' $i`" ]; then mv $i ibin/; fi; done; printf \'#!/bin/sh\\nCMD=`cut -d\' \' -f1 "$1"`\\nARG=`cut -d\' \' -f2- "$2"`\\nexec ibin 00:47:30 <shachaf> `@ FireFly ? bed 00:47:30 <HackEgo> FireFly: bed? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:50:00 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:50:01 <HackEgo> thyme/Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano. 00:50:05 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:50:06 <HackEgo> narutoverse/narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1. Sgeo drives the bus. 00:50:11 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:50:12 <HackEgo> wisdom:/wisdom: taking the ovenware out of the oven before turning it on 00:50:29 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/wisdom: 00:50:31 <HackEgo> No output. 00:50:51 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:50:52 <HackEgo> thanks ants/thants 00:50:54 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:50:56 <HackEgo> ci/The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with web comics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb. 00:51:05 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:51:06 <HackEgo> supermarioperator/supermarioperator is one of many confusing operators as defined in Control.Plumbers.Monad. Your sanity is in another castle. 00:51:13 <ais523> if Taneb did not exist, we would have to invent him? 00:51:57 <shachaf> `` rgrep -il invented wisdom | sed 's#wisdom/##' | xargs 00:51:59 <HackEgo> cpressey twoducks wolfram stephen wolfram chu space go automatic squirrel feeder persistence real mroman weetoflake unicode ci torus d-module rtf sgeo this sentence 00:52:03 <shachaf> `` rgrep -il invented wisdom | sed 's#wisdom/##' 00:52:07 <HackEgo> cpressey \ twoducks \ wolfram \ stephen wolfram \ chu space \ go \ automatic squirrel feeder \ persistence \ real \ mroman \ weetoflake \ unicode \ ci \ torus \ d-module \ rtf \ sgeo \ this sentence 00:52:23 <shachaf> `? reals 00:52:24 <HackEgo> The reals are a complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. 00:52:48 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/a /an overt /' wisdom/real 00:52:49 <HackEgo> No output. 00:54:13 <tswett> Gah, this neural net keeps producing output consisting chiefly of dozens and dozens of lines of mroman interacting with bots. 00:54:18 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:54:19 <HackEgo> phantom_______hoover/It doesn't get any better than this. 00:54:24 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:54:25 <HackEgo> poland/Połąńd is a European country. Its population consists of two main ethnicities, the North Połes and the South Połes. 00:54:34 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:54:35 <HackEgo> context/context is a word with many meanings, depending on where it is used. 00:54:44 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:54:45 <HackEgo> metaplace/Metaplace ♫ is where I want to be, ♫ I never m*%¤)&"#NO CARRIER 00:56:19 <ais523> `? tanebventions 00:56:20 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, and this sentence. 00:56:33 <ais523> `? automatic squirrel feeder 00:56:34 <HackEgo> Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them. 00:58:47 <tswett> `? Sgeo 00:58:48 <HackEgo> Sgeo is a language nomad. (Not to be confused with a language monad.) He invented Metaplace sex, thus killing it within a month. He was Doctor Mengele in his previous life, as evidenced by his norn experiments. 00:59:10 <tswett> `? sex 00:59:11 <HackEgo> sex? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:59:54 <shachaf> `le/rn el camino real/There is no royal road to analytic geometry. 00:59:57 <HackEgo> Learned «el camino real» 01:01:51 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:01:52 <HackEgo> metaplace/Metaplace ♫ is where I want to be, ♫ I never m*%¤)&"#NO CARRIER 01:01:55 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:01:56 <HackEgo> ingesorgeco/Ingesorgeco is when a German is worrying that their money might get cut short. 01:02:03 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:02:04 <HackEgo> døsthiswork/no 01:02:06 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:02:07 <HackEgo> smileyiese/smileyieses is the plural of smiley. 01:02:34 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:02:35 <HackEgo> phantom__hoover/Phantom__Hoover can't decide what an appropriate number of underscores is. 01:02:37 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:02:38 <HackEgo> nortti/nortti boy. very nortti boy. 01:02:42 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:02:43 <HackEgo> radiohead/radiohead is "rock music" 01:02:50 <shachaf> I feel like I might be spamming the channel a bit too much. 01:03:27 <zzo38> You can also look on the webpage for the list of the file too, or you can run `wisdom in private messages 01:03:50 <shachaf> `? brick 01:03:51 <HackEgo> Brick goes in brain. The statutory punishment for perpetrators of brainfuck derivatives. 01:03:59 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/brick 01:04:00 <HackEgo> No output. 01:04:56 <tswett> `learn sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published by Taneb in 1932, based on Taneb's extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex. 01:04:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'sex': sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published by Taneb in 1932, based on Taneb's extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex. 01:05:19 <oren\n> I have basically a choice between a job I can walk to at a startup, and I job I have to take the bus to, at a big successful company. 01:05:52 <tswett> I remember buses. 01:05:55 <ais523> oren\n: I take it you're currently looking for jobs? 01:06:04 <ais523> tswett: I used to use them pretty much every day 01:06:10 <shachaf> `? ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ 01:06:10 <HackEgo> ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ Your dongers. Raise them. ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ 01:06:18 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ 01:06:19 <HackEgo> No output. 01:06:31 <shachaf> `? solain 01:06:32 <ais523> then I got a job, meaning that my discount on the buses no longer applied, and trains became more economical instea 01:06:33 <HackEgo> ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ 01:06:33 <ais523> *instead 01:06:37 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/solain 01:06:41 <HackEgo> No output. 01:06:46 <ais523> also sometimes I walk to work, it only takes about 80 minutes 01:06:53 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa 01:06:56 <shachaf> what sort of job 01:07:02 <shachaf> did you fight your snake yet? 01:07:13 <shachaf> did you publish your thesis? 01:07:39 <coppro> who's fighting snakes? 01:07:42 <ais523> shachaf: thesis is still doing corrections 01:07:48 <tswett> I need a job. 01:07:51 <tswett> Here's my resume: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2GWN9AyxAkcRzZWU040T0lLZUU/view?usp=sharing 01:07:54 <tswett> Hire me, thanks. 01:07:54 <ais523> coppro: every Basilisk programmer (I think I remembered the name of the language right?) 01:08:00 <ais523> tswett: I would except I can't afford to 01:08:22 <shachaf> tswett: have you considered moving to silly valley hth 01:08:40 <tswett> Is the minimum wage in Britain higher than £8.15 an hour? 01:08:53 <coppro> `?basilisk 01:08:53 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?basilisk: not found 01:09:01 <coppro> `? basilisk 01:09:02 <HackEgo> basilisk? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:09:09 <ais523> `wl basilisk 01:09:11 <HackEgo> You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir! 01:09:15 <ais523> huh? 01:09:23 <ais523> was expecting an invalid command 01:09:27 <ais523> `cat bin/wl 01:09:28 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ \ import os \ import sys \ import json \ import urllib2 \ \ proxy_handler = urllib2.ProxyHandler({'http': os.environ['http_proxy']}) \ opener = urllib2.build_opener(proxy_handler) \ urllib2.install_opener(opener) \ \ def lose(): \ print 'You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir!' \ sys.exit() \ \ def eels(): \ 01:10:00 <ais523> `` tail -n +16 bin/wl 01:10:01 <HackEgo> def eels(): \ print 'My hovercraft is full of eels.' \ sys.exit() \ \ if len(sys.argv) > 2: \ args = sys.argv[1:] \ elif len(sys.argv) == 2: \ args = sys.argv[1].split() \ else: \ lose() \ \ if len(args) == 2: \ from_lang = args[0] \ to_lang = 'en' \ word = args[1] \ elif len(args) == 3: \ from_lang = args[0] \ 01:11:01 <ais523> tswett: also Wikipedia says it was £9.72 in 2013 01:11:04 <ais523> not sure if it's raised since 01:11:27 <ais523> err, no 01:11:38 <ais523> £6.50 on a different page which is presumably more accurate 01:12:11 <shachaf> But it'll be raised to £6.70 this year. 01:12:22 <oren\n> dude your resume looks way better than mine. you should move to toronto, plenty of jobs here 01:12:25 <pikhq> x/win 23 01:13:07 <oren\n> Maybe I oughtn't have made my resume using Latex 01:16:48 <oren\n> http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=03603668214762132544 01:17:09 <oren\n> see? generic as hell, one font, black and white 01:20:47 <oren\n> yeah I've been to a couple of interviews so far, and essentially companies in Toronto fall into the two groups I described 01:22:32 <oren\n> I could theoretically walk instead of take the bus, but only during seasons where I can stand the heat 01:22:44 -!- mitchs_ has quit (Quit: mitchs_). 01:23:42 <oren\n> tswett: what program did you use to make that resume? 01:32:54 <shachaf> oren\n: Microsoft® Word 2013 hth 01:35:46 <oren\n> aw poop 01:36:07 <oren\n> I don't have that option right now 01:36:58 <shachaf> i prefer plaintext hth 01:42:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:44:33 <tswett> Microsoft Word indeed. 01:44:55 <tswett> HTML also seems pretty decent for making nice-looking documents. 01:45:12 <tswett> LaTeX is all right too, but LaTeX makes it really difficult to do certain things. 01:45:19 <tswett> (And really easy to do certain other things.) 01:45:59 <tswett> oren\n: how would you feel about some feedback? 01:46:04 <ais523> HTML doesn't contain that many rendering hints 01:46:26 <tswett> ais523: rendering hints? 01:47:03 <ais523> tswett: like, HTML intentionally doesn't give full control over layout; nor does LaTeX really except that that always renders the same way 01:47:11 <ais523> whereas HTML changes to the form factor of the device that's viewing it 01:47:19 * tswett nods. 01:47:21 <ais523> things like font metrics aren't specified 01:47:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43216&oldid=43200 * Esowiki201529A * (+1) /* R */ 01:47:32 <ais523> so you can't tell whether an HTML document is nice-looking or not without knowing what will render it 01:47:54 <tswett> But you can use a program to render HTML to PDF. 01:48:03 <ais523> that Esowiki201529A person is trouble, btw (although that edit is harmless) 01:49:52 <oren\n> tswett: that would be great? 01:50:27 <tswett> Roger roger. 01:50:40 <tswett> oren\n: would you say that this resume is organized in order from most important stuff to least important stuff? 01:51:08 <oren\n> yeah pretty much how I did it 01:51:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43217&oldid=43216 * Esowiki201529A * (-1) /* R */ 01:51:49 <tswett> Good. 01:54:21 <tswett> Saying "I am an excellent software developer" at the beginning sounds a little strange to me. What's so excellent about you? 01:55:00 <fowl> Did someone put their resume on esolangs wiku 01:56:45 <ais523> fowl: just in the channel 01:56:50 <tswett> If you said something like "I can learn new languages extremely quickly" or "I am extremely good at getting up to speed with existing code" or "I am extremely skilled with database query optimization" or something, that tells me something meaningful about you. 01:57:14 <ais523> `le/rn resume/a resume is something that you use in order to end a pause in employment 01:57:19 <HackEgo> Learned «resume» 01:57:29 <oren\n> I think the 'excellent' was originally supposed to appy to the software 01:57:49 <tswett> "I am a developer of excellent software"? 01:57:49 <ais523> the pun only works because nobody bothers to type the accent, but… 01:58:00 <ais523> still incredibly generic, though 01:58:08 <oren\n> Yeah maybe that would work better 02:00:58 <oren\n> ais523: How did you type … 02:01:19 -!- Wright has joined. 02:01:44 <ais523> oren\n: compose key 02:02:00 <ais523> specifically, compose . . 02:02:05 <ais523> (I have caps lock bound to compose) 02:02:16 <ais523> I think you're the first person to ask even though I've been doing it for years? 02:03:09 <tswett> I've heard that the best length for a resume (for a non-academic position at the junior level) is one page. 02:03:23 <ais523> tswett: I believe it depends on country 02:03:30 <ais523> but it's normally considered to be 1 in the US and 2 in Europe 02:03:30 <tswett> Yeah, it probably does. 02:03:34 <ais523> not 100% sure on that though 02:03:36 * tswett nods. 02:03:59 <tswett> Or one A3 page. 02:04:13 <shachaf> "Resume the Résumé" is a famous song by Cole Porter. 02:04:33 <shachaf> ais523: Do you think le/rn should use two slashes like mk for consistency? 02:04:43 <shachaf> (Or for any other reason.) 02:05:04 <tswett> oren\n: I notice that the experience section is in forward chronological order; I usually see those in reverse chronological order. 02:05:21 <oren\n> hmm good point. 02:05:24 <tswett> Do you want people to read about your earliest experience first, or your latest experience? 02:05:31 <ais523> shachaf: one is enough I think 02:05:42 <shachaf> The trouble is that it won't let you make entries with / in them. 02:05:50 <shachaf> Which can exist using subdirectories. 02:06:24 <oren\n> le\rn 02:06:30 <oren\n> le|rn 02:06:46 <oren\n> le猫rn 02:07:06 <tswett> Is that the cat hanji? 02:07:11 <oren\n> yeah 02:07:37 <shachaf> is hanji a thing? 02:07:45 <oren\n> CSV. cat separated values 02:07:50 <tswett> Er, hanzi. 02:08:10 <tswett> First I was going to say "neko", then I realized that the character is probably used in Chinese too. 02:08:41 <tswett> The cat hanzi is notable chiefly for its presence in this language: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Combienti%C3%A8m 02:08:57 <tswett> oren\n: I'd suggest trying to make the experience section more concise. 02:11:54 <oren\n> hmm... yeah. I could merge the things into years. having a separate section for each season of each year might be excessive 02:12:04 <tswett> Though I couldn't really suggest any specific thing to cut. 02:12:45 <tswett> Now, is the "2-day Game Jam" actually part of your education? 02:13:05 <oren\n> hmm not really 02:13:20 <oren\n> it was sort of an extracurricular. 02:13:34 <tswett> In any case, reading that makes me wonder what it means that your team won. Does that mean you were judged the best team out of all entrants? How many entrants were there? 02:14:47 <tswett> What was your GPA in university? 02:16:46 <oren\n> tswett: There were somthing like 12 teams. My GPA was not yeat fully decided when I amde this resume. 02:16:56 * oren\n is going to check what it is 02:17:01 -!- MDude has joined. 02:18:05 <oren\n> 3.26/4.00 02:18:53 <tswett> That sounds pretty good; assuming it is, you should probably put it on there. 02:21:40 <oren\n> I think if I got all A's it would be 4, and if I got all B's it would be 3. 02:22:12 <oren\n> yeah. and all C's get you 2 and all D's get you 1 02:22:57 <oren\n> So effectivley I got an everage of B+? 02:23:10 <oren\n> something like that 02:23:41 <tswett> Now I'm about to say something hypocritical. 02:23:57 <tswett> Seeing your big list of languages and technologies makes me wonder what, exactly, you've done with all those. 02:24:11 <tswett> And that's hypocritical because my resume doesn't explain that either. ^_^ 02:24:17 <tswett> "Knowledge and experience with languages including Haskell, Python, C, and SQL" 02:25:15 <oren\n> heh 02:26:41 <tswett> Yeah, I guess what I want to say is that at first glance, the "Experience" section seems a little daunting. But I'm not actually sure what to do about that. 02:26:49 <tswett> Do you know what sorts of positions you'll be applying for? 02:28:36 <oren\n> I've been applying for a variety of different companies in different industries. the only ones I've gotton positive results from (they actually called me on the phone) were a web advertising company, and an AI startup which may or may not suceed 02:28:39 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 02:29:49 * tswett nods. 02:30:01 <oren\n> soo... not really, other than wanting to apply for a job as a "computer programmer" or the synonym de jour 02:31:00 <tswett> Guess I don't really have much more advice I can give. 02:31:15 <oren\n> Well it helps me! 02:31:51 <tswett> I guess the goal of my resume is to give some idea of what my skill level is and what my skills actually are. 02:32:16 <fowl> My resume has a bunch of lies about me 02:32:45 <fowl> :( 02:33:00 <tswett> Skills: mathematics, statistics, Haskell, Python, C, SQL, Unix, Linux, C#, ASP.NET MVCq, git, pizza. Skill level: very little professional experience but LOOK AT THIS AMAZING YELLOW BOX 02:33:05 <oren\n> fowl: mine is mostly truth, tempered with my massive overconfidence 02:33:07 <tswett> s/q// 02:33:39 <tswett> The cover letter is where I actually explain why I think I'm a good fit for the position. 02:34:13 <oren\n> tbf, it is an amazing yellow box 02:37:20 <oren\n> At least I have a good answer if anyone ever asks me "what's you biggest weakness"... Overconfidence and hubris! 02:37:52 <ais523> I thought I was in #nethack for a moment, that line would fit just fine in there 02:38:04 <tswett> Yeah, I kinda figure. Suppose someone pulls up my resume and glances at it for five seconds. What's the first thing they'll see? 02:38:33 <tswett> I'm hoping they'll take a single glance and see the words "Highest score ever" and think "wait, that sounds pretty cool". 02:38:47 <ais523> tswett: highest score ever at what? 02:39:04 <tswett> The Putnam Mathematical Competition, among students at Grand Valley State University. 02:39:22 <ais523> (again, I remember when the highest ever score at NetHack was scored, I didn't score it but I did give advice; it was almost certainly higher than the total of all NetHack scores before or since) 02:39:27 <oren\n> ais523: it doesn't actually particularly matter! that's the genius of it 02:40:02 <ais523> now I'm hoping nobody ever tries it again 02:40:09 <ais523> because that'll screw up the statistic 02:41:02 -!- Froox has joined. 02:41:03 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:42:15 <oren\n> is genial the adjectival form of genius 02:44:05 <oren\n> apparently not 02:45:07 <oren\n> wait apparently I wrote: 02:45:25 <oren\n> I have written programs in a variety of Languages 02:45:41 <oren\n> why did I capitalize the Languages?!!?? 02:45:43 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:48:21 <tswett> Oh right, I forgot to mention that. 02:48:29 <tswett> Also... 02:48:35 <tswett> "neural networks AI" doesn't sound right to me. 02:49:10 <tswett> "neural network AI" would be a little better, but it still doesn't sound quite right. "Machine learning using neural networks" or something sounds better, imo. 02:49:49 <oren\n> mhm 02:49:57 <tswett> "Coordinates" is a bit of humor, I take it? 02:50:34 <oren\n> I guess 02:50:52 <oren\n> yeah 02:51:07 <tswett> I'll let you decide whether or not that's appropriate here. 02:51:09 <tswett> "Unit testing" under Techniques and Methodologies shouldn't be capitalized unless you're capitalizing all the other words too. 02:51:49 <tswett> Likewise, "Object-Oriented Design" if you're capitalizing everything, "Object-oriented design" if you're not. 02:56:16 <tswett> Might be nice to group the "Languages and Technologies" by what they are. "Programming languages: PHP, Python, Perl, Ruby, C, C++, Java, C#, Visual Basic, Scheme. Special-purpose languages: LaTeX, HTML5, CSS. Software: MySQL, Unity3D, Apache." 02:56:18 <tswett> Just an idea. 02:58:21 <tswett> All right, I'm gonna go to bed. 02:58:23 <tswett> Night, everyone. 02:58:39 <oren\n> good night! 02:58:46 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:58:57 <HackEgo> apl/APL stands for Algorithmic Programming Language. 02:59:18 <oren\n> `? apple 02:59:19 <HackEgo> apple? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:59:28 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:59:29 <HackEgo> monoids/Monoids are the easy version of categories. 02:59:49 <oren\n> `? momoids 02:59:50 <HackEgo> momoids? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:00:07 <oren\n> `? nomoids 03:00:07 <HackEgo> nomoids? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:01:42 <oren\n> `? CSV 03:01:42 <HackEgo> CSV? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:01:48 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:01:49 <HackEgo> welcome.bork/welcome.bork Velcume-a tu zee interneshunel hoob fur isutereec prugremmeeng lungooege-a deseegn und depluyment! Fur mure-a inffurmeshun, check oooot oooor veeki: http://isulungs.oorg/veeki/Meeen_Pege-a. (Fur zee oozeer keend ooff isutereeca, try #isutereec oon irc.del.net.) 03:02:03 <oren\n> `? csv 03:02:05 <HackEgo> csv? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:02:27 <oren\n> `le/rn CSV/CSV stands for Cat Separated Values 03:02:33 <HackEgo> Learned «csv» 03:03:31 <oren\n> `le/rn CSV/CSV猫stands猫for猫Cat猫Separated猫Values 03:03:33 <HackEgo> Learned «csv» 03:04:00 <pikhq> Fantastic. 03:04:18 <shachaf> `icode 🐈 03:04:19 <HackEgo> U+1F408 CAT \ UTF-8: f0 9f 90 88 UTF-16BE: d83ddc08 Decimal: &#128008; \ 🐈 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 03:04:31 <oren\n> ？ 03:04:47 <shachaf> Unicode has a CAT codepoint. You should use that one instead. 03:05:08 <oren\n> Well good for you... nicode. 03:05:28 <pikhq> `unidecode 猫 03:05:29 <HackEgo> ​[U+732B CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-732B] 03:05:42 <pikhq> Yes, but 猫, CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-732B means "cat". 03:05:45 <oren\n> unicode CJK is suck 03:06:09 <oren\n> unicode is 糞 03:07:13 <oren\n> `icode 猫 03:07:14 <HackEgo> ​[U+732B CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-732B] 03:09:16 <shachaf> Is that the unified ideograph for "scow"? 03:09:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rotary]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43218&oldid=42747 * 98.225.44.92 * (+17) /* About this specification */ 03:09:52 <pikhq> No, for "feces". 03:11:43 <oren\n> Why could they not have put a rough approximation of the meaning in each ideogram's name?A?A? 03:13:17 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 03:13:23 <pikhq> *One* reason is that a Unicode character's name is invariant, and they don't want to commit *that* solidly to a given approximation. 03:13:48 <pikhq> Another is that the specific semantics of a character vary based on both language and context. 03:14:02 <pikhq> Yet another is that not all individual ideograms have meaning by themselves. 03:14:13 <pikhq> Finally, not all individual ideograms have *currently known* meaning. 03:14:26 <pikhq> (and some of them, hilariously, are *known to be meaningless*) 03:14:26 <Deewiant> ais523: There are also a lot of other newer fingerprints Mycology doesn't test, but at the time that statement was probably correct. 03:14:59 <oren\n> for the ones that do, then? I mean they put in the currently thought pronounciation for all those ancient writing characters 03:15:52 <oren\n> CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH CAT 732B 03:16:48 <pikhq> Anyways, they at least have the known information documented in the Unihan db. 03:17:44 <oren\n> true 03:23:02 <zzo38> What should be a HTTP response code used if authentication has been provided and is valid, but the user that has authenticated does not have permission to perform the current operation? 03:24:02 <pikhq> 403 Forbidden. 03:24:29 <pikhq> 401 is for "it would be permissible if you authenticate", 403 is for "you do not have this permission". 03:26:06 <zzo38> Well, it *might* be allowed if you reauthenticate with a different username/password, although the program doesn't know that, nor does the program know how the authentication system works; it only knows which user has authenticated. 03:28:35 <zzo38> Wikipedia says "Unlike a 401 Unauthorized response, authenticating will make no difference." However, it is unknown in my case whether or not authenticating will make a difference; it is only known that valid authentication has already been provided but that the specified user hasn't the correct permissions. 03:29:44 <zzo38> O, the actual "HTTP 403" page says that 403 also means "Authentication was provided, but the authenticated user is not permitted to perform the requested operation." 03:29:51 <pikhq> Yes. 03:35:08 -!- Walpurgisnacht has joined. 03:41:49 -!- ais523 has quit. 03:48:17 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:58:39 -!- Walpurgisnacht has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:00:22 <oren\n> Walpurgisnacht is apparently something other than just the strongest witch from Madoka 04:01:30 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:05:55 <FireFly> Yes, it's a holiday celebrated last april 04:06:11 <FireFly> With bonfires, at least here 04:06:17 <pikhq> News to me. 04:08:07 <FireFly> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walpurgis_Night I guess it's a north-european thing 04:08:22 <FireFly> Or perhaps more germanic, ish 04:09:01 <FireFly> "In the United States, Walpurgisnacht is one of the major holidays celebrated within LaVeyan Satanism and is the anniversary of the founding of the Church of Satan." ... 04:10:28 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 04:12:31 -!- password2 has joined. 04:12:44 <oren\n> The original political organization that became the Death Eaters in Harry Potter was called the Knights of Walpurgis 04:16:16 <FireFly> TIL 04:29:57 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:38:59 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 04:42:08 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Quit: impomatic_). 04:45:59 <shachaf> HireFly 04:46:11 <shachaf> Awake already? 04:50:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:51:17 <oerjan> @messages- 04:51:17 <lambdabot> mroman said 17h 7m 22s ago: http://codepad.org/LA8kRBCM 04:51:34 <shachaf> oerjan: what was going on when i asked fizzie what's going on twh 04:53:26 <oerjan> ask me in a few hours when i've got through the logs hth 04:53:51 <shachaf> @ask oerjan what was going on 04:53:51 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 04:54:00 <oerjan> @clear-messages 04:54:00 <lambdabot> Messages cleared. 04:54:28 <shachaf> I assumed you wouldn't talk until you finished reading the logs. 04:54:35 <shachaf> I guess that might not be true. 04:55:44 <oerjan> @ask mroman wat 04:55:45 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 04:56:03 <oerjan> how would i ever get around to talking then 04:56:30 <oerjan> searching for my own nick is the first thing i do. 04:57:30 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:59:29 <oerjan> shachaf: often i procrastinate reading the logs by browsing something else hth 05:00:04 <oerjan> also, sometimes i skip them altogether after the nick search step. very tempting today. 05:00:07 <shachaf> i hope you realize that logreading is your duty hth 05:00:32 <shachaf> anyway just explain what's going on with wisdom/yo 05:00:49 <oerjan> `? yo 05:00:52 <HackEgo> yo mama so fat, insert joke here 05:01:08 <shachaf> oh 05:01:11 <oerjan> i see nothing weird 05:01:20 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/yo 05:01:23 <HackEgo> No output. 05:01:35 <oerjan> `revert 05:01:39 <shachaf> help 05:01:47 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 05:01:52 <oerjan> `? yo 05:01:52 <HackEgo> yo mama so fat, insert joke here 05:01:56 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/yo 05:01:58 <HackEgo> No output. 05:02:01 <shachaf> `mk blah//hi 05:02:02 <HackEgo> blah 05:02:04 <shachaf> `revert 05:02:04 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 05:02:11 <oerjan> shachaf: wtf are you doing 05:02:11 <shachaf> `cat blah 05:02:11 <HackEgo> cat: blah: No such file or directory 05:02:14 <shachaf> `` hg cat blah 05:02:15 <HackEgo> hi 05:03:26 <FireFly> shachaf: I slept on and off, didn't really fall asleep properly I think 05:03:32 <FireFly> oh well 05:03:39 <shachaf> oerjan: i might ask HackEgo the same question 05:03:45 <FireFly> Now to figure out what your email is 05:03:52 <oerjan> shachaf: i have told Gregor about the `revert problems in /msg but both he and fizzie have been idle for days. 05:04:09 <shachaf> anyway the point of all this is that we thought revert was working and it wasn't hth 05:04:31 <FireFly> I find it impressive and a bit creepy that Google suggests "shachaf ben-tiki" if I enter "shachaf" 05:04:33 <pikhq> Gregor committed a few minutes ago. 05:04:35 <FireFly> er, kiki* 05:04:41 <pikhq> Erm, 2 hours ago. 05:04:43 <pikhq> Time! 05:05:25 <oren\n> I just scroll up to read what was said earlier 05:06:01 <oerjan> shachaf: _some_ reverts show up in the repository browser, others don't. 05:06:10 <oerjan> it's been that way for a while. 05:06:19 <shachaf> fishy if you ask me 05:06:32 <shachaf> when you say they don't show up you mean they don't get committed at all, right? 05:06:41 <oren\n> it appears irssi saves about 1 day worth of stuff 05:06:50 <oerjan> shachaf: i've had a suspicion that it happens when the revert is of a file creation. 05:06:59 <shachaf> oh 05:07:03 <oerjan> does this fit your examples? 05:07:11 <shachaf> maybe? 05:07:52 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/overt //' wisdom/real 05:07:54 <HackEgo> No output. 05:08:17 <shachaf> `revert 05:08:19 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 05:08:44 <shachaf> ok maybe 05:08:57 <oerjan> actually what i told Gregor about wasn't this, but that stupid error message, which is probably unrelated because `revert has been fishy for ages. 05:09:01 <shachaf> ok emergency over 05:09:08 <shachaf> ^celebrate 05:09:08 <fungot> \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 05:09:09 <myndzi> | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 05:09:09 <myndzi> >\ c.c |\ /| | | |\ c.c /< | >\|/| c.c /< 05:09:09 <myndzi> /´\ (_|¯`¯|_) 05:09:10 <myndzi> (_| |_) 05:09:46 <shachaf> FireFly: that's because of people like you hth 05:10:38 -!- oren\n has changed nick to oren. 05:10:39 <shachaf> FireFly: When I type "FireFly" into Google, it finds the television series, the restaurant, and the music festival. 05:10:58 <shachaf> Nothing about you or the insect. 05:11:10 <FireFly> Makes sense 05:11:12 <oren> what about the javascript debugger? 05:11:18 <FireFly> Firebug? 05:11:19 <oren> wait that's firebug 05:11:31 <FireFly> I've come to understand the TV series is p. popular 05:11:39 <FireFly> It's the most common source of mis-highlights 05:12:36 <oerjan> shachaf: i assume shachaf is a pretty rare name. is it in the bible anywhere? 05:12:44 <shachaf> yes 05:12:50 <shachaf> there's a part that says you're not supposed to eat them 05:13:05 <oerjan> i mean as a human name hth 05:13:14 <FireFly> Good thing it doesn't forbid swatting them 05:13:14 <oerjan> or angel, i think those count too 05:15:33 <oren> seagull? 05:15:54 <oren> really, you can't eat seagulls? 05:16:15 <oren> can you shoot them for eating your lunch? 05:16:33 <oerjan> is it because they're scavengers? 05:17:02 <shachaf> http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0311.htm 05:17:14 <shachaf> leviticus 11:16 it looks like hth 05:17:58 <oerjan> wait you cannot eat camels? 05:18:33 * oerjan thinks the muslims didn't keep that part. 05:18:33 <shachaf> i'm vegetarian hth 05:18:37 <oren> that is a lot of detestable kinds of birds? 05:19:28 <oren> and the gecko, and the land-crocodile, and the lizard, and the sand-lizard, and the chameleon. 05:20:10 <oren> I don't understand how that could be so prevalent as to need to make a rule about it... 05:20:36 <oren> but I agree that reptiles are probably not good eating 05:20:47 <oerjan> also they were not very good at counting insect legs 05:22:44 <oren> locusts are permissable, probably because they are still a famine food in many areas of africa 05:22:58 <oren> and were back then too 05:23:02 <shachaf> which part is about counting insect legs? 05:23:19 <oren> 21 Yet these may ye eat of all winged swarming things that go upon all fours, which have jointed legs above their feet, wherewith to leap upon the earth; 05:24:08 <oren> I dunno if the hebrew has the number four in it thoug 05:25:07 <shachaf> it does 05:25:56 <shachaf> good old leviticus 05:26:21 <oren> does that counts as a loophole allowing to eat all insects which have six legs? 05:26:48 <oren> not that anyone in their right minds would want to 05:27:26 <oerjan> your definition of "right mind" shows a certain cultural bias tdnh 05:27:46 <shachaf> i'm sure that's the topic of someone's thesis or something hth 05:28:19 <shachaf> https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/moses/two-missing-legs/ 05:30:17 <shachaf> `wisdom 05:30:18 <HackEgo> croissont supplier/See misspellings of croissant 05:31:09 <oren> cwasaw 05:32:03 <oren> cuasaung 05:32:17 -!- w00tles has joined. 05:32:44 <oren> cwasawng 05:33:03 <oren> cwasong 05:33:32 <oerjan> qua son? 05:33:42 <oren> qason 05:34:38 <oerjan> xazõ 05:34:48 <oren> crasseauoing 05:34:57 <oren> crasseauoinge 05:35:01 <oerjan> Krasseneuung 05:42:37 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523> there's not much point of doing a JAMH in Malbolge because it doesn't look visually different from any other Malbolge program <-- obviously a JAMH should somehow be surprisingly _readable_ hth 05:42:37 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 05:47:36 <FireFly> I don't think that's possible in Malbolge 05:47:38 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:56:54 <oerjan> it would certainly take some effort. 05:58:25 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:59:38 -!- quietella has joined. 06:06:00 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 06:09:41 -!- quietella has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 06:19:08 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 06:27:16 <myname> what's a jamh 06:27:48 <izabera> ^ 06:28:10 <izabera> just another malbolge hacker? 06:28:45 <oerjan> yep 06:30:39 <shachaf> `wisdom 06:30:56 <HackEgo> supermarioperator/supermarioperator is one of many confusing operators as defined in Control.Plumbers.Monad. Your sanity is in another castle. 06:32:23 <myname> what 06:32:45 <shachaf> oerjan: am i `wisdom-spamming too much twh 06:36:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 06:37:34 <oerjan> since you said twh, yes 06:37:44 * oerjan whistles innocently 06:38:31 <shachaf> i meant that truth would help hth 06:38:53 <oerjan> TOO LATE 06:44:17 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 06:55:06 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:03:55 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:43:39 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:43:59 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Client Quit). 07:47:38 <mroman> fnord. 07:47:43 <mroman> @messages-laut 07:47:43 <lambdabot> oerjan asked 2h 51m 59s ago: wat 07:47:47 <mroman> ok 07:48:16 <mroman> oerjan: just like you said: You can use flags to do if conditions. 07:48:27 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:48:27 <oerjan> ah 07:49:00 <mroman> that is, for additions/subtractions at least 07:49:04 <mroman> but you don't need more for TCness 07:53:59 <mroman> although that doesn't prove that BF with do-while loops is TC 08:20:07 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/'off by two' 08:20:14 <HackEgo> No output. 08:20:19 <oerjan> `? off by two 08:20:22 <HackEgo> An off by two error is what happens when you expect an off by one error but compensate in the wrong direction. 08:25:19 <mroman> how can I do many $ optional ... in parsec? 08:25:29 <mroman> many can't accept a Parser that accepts an empty String 08:25:31 <mroman> so 08:25:35 <mroman> many $ optional comment 08:25:37 <mroman> oh wait 08:25:41 <mroman> That's just many $ comment 08:25:45 <oerjan> heh 08:27:47 <mroman> but that still doesn't fix it 08:30:03 <oerjan> does comment itself accept an empty string 08:31:25 <mroman> no but skipSpaces did 08:32:04 -!- Walpurgisnacht has joined. 08:32:10 <oerjan> skipSpaces >> many (comment <* skipSpaces) 08:32:14 <mroman> http://codepad.org/EQaIActa 08:32:19 <mroman> It still doesn't accept leading spaces :( 08:32:42 <mroman> now leading spaces causes it to want a comment 08:33:43 <mroman> *fixed* 08:33:45 <oerjan> ok basic rule on how to do space skipping in a free-form language in parsec: have _one_ skipSpaces at the start of the whole file parse, and one after every token. 08:34:31 <oerjan> (where a token is something like an identifier) 08:35:05 <Walpurgisnacht> Language? 08:35:17 <oerjan> Walpurgisnacht: parsec is in haskell 08:35:40 <oerjan> (except for ports) 08:35:45 <Walpurgisnacht> What are you trying to achieve 08:36:08 <oerjan> parsing some new language, i guess 08:36:17 <oerjan> that's what parsec is usually used for 08:38:01 <Walpurgisnacht> I know that parsec is in haskell I was wondering what he was trying to parse 08:38:15 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:38:53 <Walpurgisnacht> Haven't seen anything like it. 08:39:14 <oerjan> i recall mroman is making a new golfing language, don't know if it's that 08:39:24 <Walpurgisnacht> Oh? 08:40:16 <Walpurgisnacht> What was that golfing site 08:40:18 <oerjan> it has some weird parsing rules, with both infix and postfix operators 08:40:27 <oerjan> i mean 08:40:32 <mroman> oerjan: That was just an experiment :) 08:40:35 <oerjan> oh 08:40:39 <mroman> But, yes it had weird parse rules 08:40:49 <Walpurgisnacht> Had 08:40:54 <mroman> It still has. 08:40:54 <Walpurgisnacht> So you fixed it 08:40:59 <Walpurgisnacht> Oh well then 08:41:37 <mroman> No. 08:41:41 <mroman> It's supposed to be that way 08:41:57 <mroman> Instead of having parentheses in ((5+1)+3) you use a prefix comma 08:42:02 <mroman> ,,5+1+3 08:42:16 <oerjan> Walpurgisnacht: we did some golfing over at http://golf.shinh.org/ last autumn but i think most of us got bored of it again 08:42:41 <Walpurgisnacht> I see ill look at it for distractions 08:43:59 <oerjan> i tried haskell but henkma is too good for me to beat (except that one time) 08:44:14 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 08:44:23 <Walpurgisnacht> Is it like a challenge 08:44:54 <oerjan> yes 08:45:10 <Walpurgisnacht> I like challenges 08:45:29 <oerjan> make the shortest program in a language that gives the given outputs for the given inputs 08:45:47 <mroman> http://codepad.org/2fJnZo4I 08:45:51 <mroman> ^- that's what I'm trying to parse 08:46:10 <oerjan> that site is very liberal on the definition of the task: it is allowed to completely ignore the task description and cheat, as long as you match input to output. 08:46:33 <oerjan> (mainly, that's all that is tested.) 08:46:38 <mroman> there's missing a decrement for $len but that doesn't matter for parsing purposes :) 08:46:45 <Walpurgisnacht> Recursive expansion looks crazy 08:46:54 <oerjan> Walpurgisnacht: was just looking at it 08:48:18 <oerjan> mroman: is this the all-loops-are-run-at-least-once language? it's a bit confusing to use while { } if so... 08:49:35 <oerjan> (in fact int-e also got too good for me to beat after a bit of warmup) 08:49:36 <mroman> No. 08:50:10 <oerjan> ok 08:52:01 <Walpurgisnacht> Who's winning on recursive 08:52:09 <Walpurgisnacht> Is it measured by byte sizs 08:52:17 <Walpurgisnacht> Size* 08:52:32 <oerjan> yes, see table at end of page 08:52:48 <oerjan> there's also a table for each language 08:53:05 <oerjan> (that someone has tried) 08:53:39 -!- Walpurgisnacht has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:53:55 -!- Walpurgisnacht has joined. 08:54:37 <Walpurgisnacht> Connection error 08:55:23 <oerjan> i sense some trickiness in the details of that problem: why are the ___ lines unbroken on the top but not the bottom? 08:56:17 <oerjan> oh hm 08:56:27 <Walpurgisnacht> Are you talking about mromans problem 08:56:29 <oerjan> because you have to break when there's a | in there 08:56:36 <oerjan> no, about recursive 08:56:55 <Walpurgisnacht> Are those the only languages supported for this problem 08:57:29 <oerjan> no, just the only ones anyone has tried to submit 08:57:38 <oerjan> there's a lot of supported languages 08:58:07 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 08:58:31 <Walpurgisnacht> I'm trying cyan 08:59:16 <Walpurgisnacht> Only 105 you'd think there would be more 08:59:16 <mroman> there are over 90 languages supported 08:59:38 <mroman> Making it probably the biggest golfing site out there 09:01:08 <Walpurgisnacht> What does it mean by endless 09:01:16 -!- Herbalist has joined. 09:01:32 <Walpurgisnacht> Does it just make an "endless" string or is it unsolvable 09:02:08 <oerjan> Walpurgisnacht: just that there's no deadline, also you never get to see the other solutions 09:02:15 <oerjan> (they're not even saved) 09:02:55 <oerjan> other than that, it's the same kind of challenge 09:03:13 <b_jonas> mroman: no, probably not the biggest, because golf SE is pretty large these days, and there are a few other big ones with fewer languages 09:03:25 <b_jonas> but it's certainly one of the biggest 09:04:00 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 09:04:24 <mroman> yeah, sure. 09:04:36 <Walpurgisnacht> I see, oerjan 09:04:41 <mroman> there are "big" sites with just a few languages, yes. 09:05:02 <mroman> Shinh could do some visual and statistics update. 09:05:16 <mroman> and add disqus or something and it would be a very nice looking webpage :) 09:05:41 <Walpurgisnacht> Its getting late 09:05:55 <Walpurgisnacht> I think ill stay up a bit more 09:06:27 <Walpurgisnacht> But not in irc, Good bye 09:06:43 -!- Walpurgisnacht has quit (Quit: Onii-chan you're the best especially when you touch my breast). 09:08:03 <oerjan> mroman: i think anyone who makes a site like shinh has already decided to disagree with you hth 09:08:29 <oerjan> (i.e. no styling at all that i can see) 09:09:41 <mroman> There's some styling 09:09:46 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:09:58 <mroman> it even has a css 09:10:02 <oerjan> huh 09:10:36 <mroman> http://golf.shinh.org/site.css 09:10:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:11:09 -!- TieSoul has joined. 09:11:19 <FireFly> the stack exchange allows any language, but it doesn't actually verify anything automatically 09:12:04 <mroman> yeah and the SE site-mechanics aren't really any good for golfing. 09:12:06 <FireFly> It's just implicitly understood that either you use a well-known language with free implementations available, or you explain how your code works in-depth 09:12:13 <FireFly> True, I agree with that 09:12:14 <mroman> no verification, no size-measurement 09:12:31 <mroman> it's just a regular "forum board" where people post code 09:12:37 <mroman> it completely sucks for golfing imo. 09:13:00 <mroman> there's not even a well defined scoring system 09:13:08 <mroman> other than up/down votes afaik 09:13:23 <mroman> golfing is about short programs, not up/down votes 09:13:28 <FireFly> Yes there is 09:13:37 <FireFly> questions tagged as code-golf is about shortest program 09:13:52 <FireFly> there is a userscript to sort by shortest size 09:14:03 <FireFly> but yes, I agree that the platform isn't a good fit for the job 09:14:11 <mroman> Still. It's not a good platform for the job :) 09:14:46 <mroman> which is why I don't really like it. 09:15:50 <FireFly> It's about "programming puzzles and code golf", and the one hard rule is essentially that all questions need an objective winning criterion 09:16:16 <FireFly> When the criterion is votes, they call that a popularity contest 09:16:30 <FireFly> But yeah, some people dislike those questions a lot, and there aren't too many of them 09:16:32 <mroman> I don't even like SE comment system 09:16:49 <mroman> no tree structure :) 09:17:04 <FireFly> True 09:17:12 <b_jonas> mroman: sure, and that's not even the biggest problem 09:17:26 <b_jonas> mroman: the comments are not searchable, and they're deliberately hard to use 09:17:37 <b_jonas> they're deliberately trying to limit comments to put content elsewhere 09:17:46 <FireFly> http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/35569/tweetable-mathematical-art is one of the popularity-contest puzzles I like (just to give an example of something that isn't code-golf but still enjoyable) 09:18:00 <FireFly> This one is more demoscene-esque, I guess 09:18:13 <mroman> https://www.mwforum.org/ <- so far one of the best forum software I've ever seen. 09:19:02 <FireFly> interesting 09:20:48 <mroman> https://www.mwforum.org/doc/Readme.html#features 09:22:56 <izabera> did you know that the british secret services have a website? 09:22:59 <izabera> https://www.sis.gov.uk/ 09:23:36 <izabera> with a stilish blurry jpg picture as their background 09:24:12 <mroman> I'd put a hypnotoad animated gif as a background 09:24:32 <izabera> that's not very british, is it? 09:25:59 <mroman> who cares? 09:32:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Oerjan * moved [[Damarok]] to [[Darmok]]: You have got to be fucking kidding me. 09:33:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Darmok]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43220&oldid=43219 * Oerjan * (+4) Sheesh 09:37:12 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:37:40 <oerjan> `? øvrigt 09:37:40 <HackEgo> ​øvrigt? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:39:09 -!- FreeFull has joined. 09:40:39 <oerjan> <pikhq> What's next, no ehird? <-- erm if you've been noticing lately... 09:41:07 <FireFly> `? øl 09:41:08 <HackEgo> ​øl? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:41:24 <FireFly> `? øob 09:41:24 <HackEgo> ​øob? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:41:47 <oerjan> `le/rn øl/Øl, øl og mere øl. 09:41:50 <HackEgo> Learned «øl» 09:42:36 <oerjan> as for øob, i've got nothing. 09:43:11 <FireFly> It was a nonsensical pun on ÖoB, or "överskottsbolaget" 09:43:28 <FireFly> but since we were doing ø's, well 09:43:37 <oerjan> øk 09:43:40 <FireFly> I'm øut of ideas 09:43:57 <FireFly> øka takten sista kvarten 09:44:55 <b_jonas> argh, stupid dns of the internal network doesn't work again 09:45:06 <FireFly> Hm 09:45:41 <FireFly> Shouldn't ideä be the proper spelling of "idea", going by the diaeresis-avoids-diphtong rule in english? 09:48:46 <oerjan> `? haskell 09:48:47 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 09:49:31 <oerjan> the thing is, it's not actually _english_ diphthongs you avoid, but latin ones hth 09:49:47 <oerjan> (maybe) 09:49:56 <oerjan> `hg cat wisdom/haskell 09:50:02 <HackEgo> hg: unknown command 'cat wisdom/haskell' \ Mercurial Distributed SCM \ \ basic commands: \ \ add add the specified files on the next commit \ annotate show changeset information by line for each file \ clone make a copy of an existing repository \ commit commit the specified files or all outstanding changes \ diff 09:50:02 <FireFly> oh. 09:50:16 <oerjan> ``hg cat 'wisdom/haskell' 09:50:18 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `hg: not found 09:50:22 <oerjan> `` hg cat 'wisdom/haskell' 09:50:23 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 09:50:36 <FireFly> `? häskëll 09:50:36 <HackEgo> häskëll? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 09:51:03 <FireFly> `` ls wisdom/*ö* 09:51:04 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/*ö*: No such file or directory 09:51:08 <FireFly> I see 09:51:22 <FireFly> `` ls wisdom/*ø* 09:51:23 <HackEgo> wisdom/døsthiswork \ wisdom/døsthiswørk \ wisdom/ø \ wisdom/øl \ wisdom/ørjan 09:51:33 <FireFly> `? ø 09:51:34 <HackEgo> ​ø is not going anywhere. 09:51:52 <FireFly> Unless the sea level rises 09:58:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:59:23 <mroman> `learn ĥäŝkéll is not what you were looking for. Try again. 09:59:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'ĥäŝkéll': ĥäŝkéll is not what you were looking for. Try again. 10:00:13 <mroman> (ĥ is pronounced like esperanto ĥ) 10:01:12 <oerjan> aĥa 10:01:19 <mroman> (same for ŝ.) 10:03:58 <mroman> (χæʃkell would be the correct pronunciation) 10:08:38 -!- lleu has joined. 10:12:18 <FireFly> shächkell 10:12:33 <FireFly> Wait, I mixed them up 10:12:59 <FireFly> the χ-like one is the ch 10:13:40 <fizzie> `` unicode χ # as seen here 10:13:41 <HackEgo> U+03C7 GREEK SMALL LETTER CHI \ UTF-8: cf 87 UTF-16BE: 03c7 Decimal: &#967; \ χ (Χ) \ Uppercase: U+03A7 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) 10:14:46 <fizzie> ("shächkell" sounds like some sort of a shachaf-promulgated Haskell fork.) 10:14:54 <FireFly> Annoyingly, "chi" is /ʃi/, isn't it? 10:15:35 <FireFly> At least in swedish I think.. 10:15:57 <FireFly> Apparently it's /kaɪ/ in english, huh 10:16:12 <fizzie> I wouldn't have expected *that*. 10:17:04 <Taneb> FireFly, I try to begin it with the same consonant as loch 10:17:27 <mroman> the X-like is the ch, yes 10:17:49 <mroman> (the rough ch in german, or the regular ch in swiss german, we don't have the soft one) 10:17:51 <FireFly> Taneb: the name "chi" (for the letter)? Interesting 10:17:56 <Taneb> yeah 10:18:29 <mroman> swiss german speakers have some advantage when learning other languages :) 10:18:38 <fizzie> oerjan: I don't know about this email thing, but I'm not surprised it might have broken. 10:18:41 <oerjan> `cat bin/learn_append 10:18:45 <fizzie> oerjan: I don't even remember how it worked. 10:18:45 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//') \ stuff=$(echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic" 10:18:48 <Taneb> mroman, in that they live in a country with three other languages? 10:18:49 <mroman> we have three different r-sounds, two different ch-sounds 10:18:55 <mroman> a lot of nasal, non-nasal sounds 10:18:56 <oerjan> ooh fizzie is alive 10:19:00 <mroman> like nasal o, non-nasal o 10:19:18 <mroman> voiceless, non-voiceless sounds 10:19:21 <oerjan> fizzie: do you know anything about HackEgo's `revert breakage? 10:19:29 <mroman> Taneb: and a lot of dialects, yes. 10:20:24 <mroman> so we know the difference between ʒ and ʃ etc. 10:20:37 <Taneb> Whereas I can speak: English. A little French and Italian. 10:20:40 <mroman> although english also has distinctions between voiceless and non-voiceless 10:20:46 <mroman> like rice, rise 10:20:48 <Taneb> (not much of either) 10:21:13 <mroman> Does english have d͡ʒ? 10:21:24 <fizzie> oerjan: I don't know anything about that either. I will try to have a look at both things this evening, if I manage. 10:21:43 <mroman> t͡ʃ 10:21:59 <oerjan> yay 10:22:05 <mroman> t͡ʃ is the ch in chin 10:22:32 <Taneb> mroman, I do not know IPA very well but is that the consonant in edge? 10:22:47 <FireFly> mroman: isn't that the j in jungle? 10:23:01 <oerjan> fizzie: i suspect one of the bugs might be as easy as doing a 'rm -r canary.orig' in the right place. 10:23:16 <mroman> edge is ɛdʒ 10:23:37 <mroman> yeah 10:23:38 <oerjan> the older thing where it sometimes doesn't pick up changes, well... 10:23:39 <mroman> that's the one 10:23:42 <mroman> edge, or jungle 10:25:19 <FireFly> I think that one is pretty common in english 10:27:06 <oerjan> <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/a /an overt /' wisdom/real <-- what was that for? 10:27:13 -!- boily has joined. 10:27:18 <oerjan> hoily 10:27:26 <mroman> workplace.stackexchange is weird 10:27:41 <Taneb> buongiornoily 10:30:44 <oerjan> `? sex 10:30:51 <HackEgo> sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published by Taneb in 1932, based on Taneb's extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex. 10:31:03 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/s/S/' wisdom/sex 10:31:04 <HackEgo> No output. 10:31:45 <Taneb> If it is all the same, I would rather sex not be a tanebvention 10:32:04 <oerjan> it does seem a little out of character. 10:33:08 <FireFly> `wisdom 10:33:10 <HackEgo> tanea/Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Yorj. 10:33:15 <FireFly> I knew that. 10:33:20 <FireFly> `wisdom 10:33:21 <HackEgo> whom/See: who 10:33:26 <myname> fortresr 10:33:43 <FireFly> > succ "fortresr" 10:33:45 <lambdabot> No instance for (Enum [Char]) arising from a use of ‘succ’ 10:33:45 <lambdabot> In the expression: succ "fortresr" 10:34:03 <FireFly> oh, no instance for Enum a => Enum [a] 10:34:14 <Taneb> > "fortresr" & _last %~ succ 10:34:16 <lambdabot> "fortress" 10:35:57 <oerjan> `learn Sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published in 1932, based on extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex. 10:35:59 <HackEgo> Learned 'sex': Sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published in 1932, based on extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex. 10:36:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Why am I still here). 10:37:11 <Taneb> `thanks oerjan 10:37:12 <HackEgo> Thanks, oerjan. Thoerjan. 10:52:31 <boily> hellørjan! Tanelle? 10:53:20 <olsner> were you thanking oerjan for quitting? 10:54:24 <boily> it's early in the morning. I'm not exactly cohérent yet. 10:54:48 <boily> @tell oerjan AAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I couldn't even hellørjan you properly. 10:54:49 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 10:54:59 <boily> also, hellolsner. 10:55:08 <Taneb> olsner, for changing the wisdom 10:55:47 <olsner> I'm sort of relieved sex was not actually a tanebvention 10:57:20 <boily> still trying to Italian porthello Taneb. it's not easy. 10:58:12 <Taneb> Were it night-time, buonanottaneb? 10:58:38 <boily> yes, if this were the case. 10:59:12 <boily> Tanebuongiorno, perhaps? 11:00:54 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 11:01:07 <Taneb> That works 11:35:21 <boily> but for now, good tanebye! 11:35:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SYCAMORE CHICKEN). 11:38:41 -!- w00tles has joined. 11:49:53 -!- w00tles has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:50:15 -!- w00tles has joined. 12:02:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kingofthenerdz3 * New user account 12:11:10 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, did you make sense of my nats yesterday? 12:44:04 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:54:58 <mroman> Can you eat Sex? 12:55:03 <mroman> Otherwise I'm not interested. 13:04:29 <Taneb> I agree 13:07:25 -!- APic has changed nick to APic\splat. 13:38:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Crave * New user account 13:39:00 <coppro> `? nat 13:39:33 <HackEgo> nat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:39:45 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:40:23 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:42:26 -!- Herbalist has joined. 13:51:17 * oren searches for an address. google tells him it's in another city. 13:51:44 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:52:38 <oren> yahoo has the right one 13:54:34 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:54:44 -!- Taneb has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 13:55:31 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:56:06 -!- Taneb has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 13:56:43 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:59:14 -!- Taneb has quit (Excess Flood). 13:59:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DNA-Sharp]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43221&oldid=41157 * Crave * (+92) Added := alternative to = to remove ambiguity 14:00:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:01:14 -!- Taneb has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 14:01:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:02:07 <Taneb> Aaaaaah my connection is not doing well 14:04:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 14:04:40 <mroman> Stop DDoSing Taneb. 14:04:56 -!- jameseb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:05:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:06:29 -!- jameseb has joined. 14:08:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:DNA-Sharp]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43222&oldid=33277 * Crave * (+400) 14:08:58 <mroman> coppro: Did you mean Nat? 14:11:25 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 14:12:12 <Taneb> coppro, https://gist.github.com/Taneb/f2021eab65ba59aa3693 14:13:24 <mroman> Without looking I'm guessing it's some weird Haskell code with coerce and pure 14:13:42 <mroman> Dang. 14:14:08 <mroman> Not even one? 14:14:30 <Taneb> It is weird Haskell code 14:14:42 <Taneb> But it's sensible weird Haskell code 14:14:43 <mroman> Not weird enough. 14:14:54 <mroman> `quote mroman 14:14:55 <HackEgo> 768) <mroman> You can't quote me. \ 1139) <mroman_> Bike: I refuse to believe in bottom <Bike> ass is an urban legend \ 1218) <mroman_> Rule of thumb is that if I can understand it you're not using enough fancy stuff \ 1221) <mroman_> piece of cake doing this stuff in Burlesque :P [19 lines later] <mroman_> I hate Burlesque :( 14:15:06 <mroman> You're not using enough fancy stuff. 14:15:29 <Taneb> Wow, I can't really understand what I am doing 14:16:15 -!- jameseb has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 14:16:21 -!- jameseb has joined. 14:20:30 <Taneb> mroman, I think it's possible to make quotRem even more efficient with a fair amount of number theory 14:20:36 <Taneb> But I am not very good at number theory 14:22:33 <Taneb> I think this implementation of natural numbers could work quite well in some flavours of graph programming 14:29:52 <mroman> I don't know enough about number theory 14:37:56 <shachaf> oerjan: the reals are overt hth 14:41:31 <Jafet> `? Nat 14:41:32 <HackEgo> Nat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:41:36 <Jafet> `? Tanebventions 14:41:37 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, and this sentence. 14:44:46 <Jafet> Long division shouldn't be too difficult there 14:45:49 <Jafet> (It requires only (+), (-), and (<=).) 14:46:04 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:51:05 -!- hjulle has joined. 14:51:13 <Jafet> (Well, the code didn't look like long division at first) 14:56:38 <Jafet> A problem with division is that the result can be exponentially larger than the inputs, eg. (2^(2n+1) + 1)/3 14:57:36 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:59:21 -!- Herbalist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:59:57 -!- Herbalist has joined. 15:01:14 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to batman. 15:01:24 -!- batman has changed nick to GeekDude. 15:01:49 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 15:09:45 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 15:11:01 -!- spiette has joined. 15:23:14 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:24:31 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:28:39 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 15:30:52 -!- w00tles has joined. 15:32:18 -!- w00tles has quit (Client Quit). 15:42:29 -!- lemurian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:45:34 -!- variable has joined. 16:18:27 -!- password2 has joined. 16:24:35 -!- fowl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:30:21 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 16:30:39 -!- gamemanj has joined. 16:34:13 -!- fowl has joined. 16:34:13 -!- fowl has quit (Changing host). 16:34:13 -!- fowl has joined. 16:34:14 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 16:44:47 -!- fowl has joined. 16:46:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:47:49 <oerjan> @messages-good 16:47:49 <lambdabot> boily said 5h 53m 1s ago: AAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I couldn't even hellørjan you properly. 16:48:18 <oerjan> `? resume 16:48:22 <HackEgo> a resume is something that you use in order to end a pause in employment 16:48:38 <oerjan> `learn A resume is something that you use in order to end a pause in employment. 16:48:50 <HackEgo> Learned 'resume': A resume is something that you use in order to end a pause in employment. 16:49:32 <shachaf> oerjan: overtness is a concept dual to compactness and you have been using it all your life hth 16:49:48 * oerjan currently resisting urge to proofread all of wisdom for punctuation and capitalization 16:50:23 <shachaf> `` egrep -rl '^[a-z]' wisdom | sed 's#wisdom/##' 16:50:24 <HackEgo> nooga \ drone \ cpressey \ lambdabot \ ant \ indentity function \ mroman_ \ guestbot \ burma \ bird \ oren \ fomething \ mojibake \ otp \ gaspasjo \ qdbformat \ impomatic \ ø \ mauke \ hovercraft \ bookwatching \ forty \ epsilon \ å \ ehird \ categorical product \ metasepia \ lystrosaurus \ cyberdrone \ php \ hipchat \ copumpkin \ ĥäŝkéll \ f 16:50:42 <oerjan> "As I already stated, all spaces are overt in classical topology." 16:50:45 <olsner> is gaspasjo the actual norwegian spelling? 16:50:51 <oerjan> shachaf: I SAID RESISTING 16:51:13 <shachaf> `` egrep -rl '^[a-z]' wisdom | sed 's#wisdom/##' | wc -l 16:51:15 <HackEgo> 179 16:51:42 <oerjan> olsner: probably gaspatsjo if we bothered to respell it 16:51:46 <shachaf> http://math.andrej.com/2012/10/03/am-i-a-constructive-mathematician/ 16:51:53 <olsner> `? gaspasjo 16:51:54 <HackEgo> gaspasjo is a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days 16:52:26 <shachaf> "gaspasjo" is the norwegian spelling of gaspasjo hth 16:52:36 -!- nys has joined. 16:52:40 <oerjan> `? gaspatsjo 16:52:40 <HackEgo> gaspatsjo is a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days 16:52:55 <oerjan> apparently both are in wisdom... 16:53:07 <b_jonas> oerjan: well norwegian can be complicated 16:53:29 <oerjan> also the wisdom/ repository shows up on the first google hit page for "gaspatsjo" (with quotes), which is not reassuring 16:54:07 <oerjan> "gaspasjo" has slightly more hits (67 est.) 16:54:50 <oerjan> some of the hits are actual norwegian, but i take it it's not a word that's used enough for spelling to be localized 16:55:19 <b_jonas> can't it have two spellings? 16:57:19 <shachaf> oerjan: i heard that your country tried to invent poutine, but you had neither curds nor whey 16:57:22 <oerjan> erm 16:57:28 <oerjan> shachaf: plausible 16:57:50 <oerjan> shachaf: actually the latter is false i think, whey is what brunost is made of 16:58:19 <shachaf> ok but that ruins the pun tdnh 16:58:37 <oerjan> 's ok i didn't notice the pun anyway 16:58:50 <oerjan> (still don't) 16:59:54 <shachaf> it was just the last two words hth 17:00:01 <oerjan> b_jonas: well sure, but gaspatsjo would be the way to spell it maximally close to the spanish pronunciation 17:00:34 <oerjan> shachaf: hm "oh whey" puns are synchronistic for me today 17:00:36 <b_jonas> ok 17:00:47 <oerjan> oh hm 17:01:00 * oerjan finally got the pun 17:02:01 <oerjan> as in, i saw one earlier, and then thought of it again when i passed by the protein pulver section of the grocery shop (seems to be all the whey) 17:03:57 <oerjan> around 1900, norwegian developed some rather consistent rules for how to nationalize spelling of french and latin words. too bad english won. 17:10:07 <b_jonas> oerjan: English won temporarily at least. It was latin for a while, then german, then russian, (with french going somewhat in parallel with the German and Russian) now English. Chinese might be the next, or not, it's hard to read the future. 17:14:12 <oerjan> from the norwegian point of view, it was never that much russian hth :) 17:14:29 <b_jonas> yes, I know 17:15:23 <b_jonas> oerjan: russian won on this side of the Berlin wall, german and french and english on the other side, and the iron wall has led to a LOT of duplicated scientific research when people didn't know about existing results on the other side of the wall 17:15:44 <b_jonas> at least a little of that problem still remains, at least in some areas 17:15:56 <oerjan> too many cooks, levin 17:16:53 <b_jonas> of course it's hard to be sure that's what's happened in any one case, because there are always duplicate results and difficult to find results even without the iron curtain 17:17:08 <b_jonas> (and triplicate results, which you clearly can't blame on JUST the iron curtain) 17:17:23 <b_jonas> but this is the general impression I have 17:17:29 <oerjan> yeah 17:27:30 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 17:29:14 <oerjan> @tell boily shellocking 17:29:14 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 17:30:37 -!- aretecode has joined. 17:39:24 -!- Wright has joined. 17:40:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 18:04:29 <nys> immutable brainfuck 18:05:58 <coppro> ++ 18:09:52 -!- quietella has joined. 18:11:58 <shachaf> zzo38: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/612057-generating-magic-cards-using-deep-recurrent-neural 18:26:04 -!- lemurian has joined. 18:27:59 <Jafet> There have been quadruple results on the same side of the iron curtain 18:31:17 <Jafet> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner–Fischer_algorithm) 18:41:18 -!- mihow has joined. 18:44:55 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:45:27 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:46:31 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:09:21 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:10:35 -!- perrier has joined. 19:15:13 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 19:22:07 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:22:08 <HackEgo> vorpal/Vorpal is really boring. Seriously, you have no idea. 19:22:18 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/vorpal 19:22:20 <HackEgo> oerjan FreeFull shachaf shachaf nitia 19:22:27 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:23:39 -!- perrier has joined. 19:31:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:51:06 <FireFly> `wisdom 19:51:07 <HackEgo> quintopia/quintopia is our resident tl;dr generator. 19:51:23 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 19:51:23 <FireFly> tl;dr 19:51:32 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:51:33 <HackEgo> thyme/Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano. 19:51:37 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:51:38 <HackEgo> funciton/A funciton is the number of burgers to eat when I get one. 19:52:10 <shachaf> delicious lunchthyme 19:52:14 <FireFly> Not to be confused with a fukcton 19:52:24 <shachaf> FireFly: did you get stuck in snakebird twh 19:52:57 <FireFly> yes until I got stuck in a car travelling 700km south tdnh 19:53:18 <FireFly> oh you meant stuck stuck 19:53:34 <shachaf> oh 700km 19:53:37 <FireFly> yes, on level 10 or so :( 19:53:39 <shachaf> i thought you said 700km/h 19:53:45 <shachaf> would be more exciting 19:53:55 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:54:14 <FireFly> No, although Koenigsegg did something crazy recently 19:54:29 <FireFly> 0-300km/h-0 in 18 seconds 19:54:47 <FireFly> so that's p. fast 19:54:47 <shachaf> what do you think of the fact that distances and speeds are measured in miles and miles/h here 19:54:57 <FireFly> confusing 19:55:12 <shachaf> the extra confusing part is that i only learned about distances and speeds after i moved here 19:55:17 <shachaf> so i think in celsius but also in miles tdnh 19:55:31 <FireFly> we tend to measure distance in mil here (1 mil = 10 km) 19:55:43 <FireFly> sorry to add to the confusion 19:56:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:56:28 <FireFly> (due to hysterical raisins) 19:57:29 <shachaf> there's no good name for miles per hour anyway 19:57:37 <shachaf> in hebrew km/h is called "kamash" which is a good name 19:57:38 <FireFly> A mile is like phi km 19:57:44 <shachaf> hebrew acronyms are too good 19:57:53 <shachaf> yes, you can convert with fibonacci numbers 19:58:02 -!- atrapado has joined. 19:58:04 <FireFly> That's p. handy 19:58:41 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:58:41 <HackEgo> le/rn/le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past. 19:58:43 <pikhq> Kinda a shame there aren't more roads in the US signed metric. 19:59:09 <shachaf> you know what else is scow? 19:59:12 <FireFly> signed metric? 19:59:18 <shachaf> measuring gasoline consumption in miles per gallon 19:59:29 <pikhq> FireFly: http://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MICSFT/WINDOWS/CP932.TXT 19:59:30 <shachaf> FireFly: presumably "has signs that use metric measurements" 19:59:32 <pikhq> Erm 19:59:34 <pikhq> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Metric_Interstate_19_cropped.jpg 19:59:36 <pikhq> That. 20:00:04 <FireFly> shachaf: that makes more sense than two's complement signs 20:01:19 <pikhq> The really confusing thing is probably the parts of the country with weird mixes. 20:01:24 <FireFly> pikhq: so, using metric units? 20:01:38 <FireFly> hh 20:01:40 <FireFly> heh* 20:01:41 <pikhq> For instance, apparently Puerto Rico uses metric units for mile markers and distances, but imperial for speed limits. 20:02:02 <FireFly> that seems confusing, yes 20:02:08 <pikhq> And liters for gasoline. 20:02:32 <pikhq> They might be the only place that would like to know miles per liter. 20:03:39 <pikhq> For extra fun (though nobody to my knowledge does this), apparently a car may have its spedometer and odometer in metric only. 20:06:53 -!- quietella has quit (Quit: quietella). 20:09:09 <coppro> pretty sure that's legal in the USA 20:11:17 <olsner> pikhq: or do they use liter per 100 miles? 20:13:01 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:17:07 <pikhq> coppro: That's what I was saying. It is explicitly legal. 20:17:39 <coppro> pikhq: meant to say Canada 20:17:43 <pikhq> Ah. 20:17:48 <pikhq> olsner: Dunno. 20:18:41 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:19:44 -!- Wright has joined. 20:20:44 <tswett> `cat wisdom/sex 20:20:45 <HackEgo> Sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published in 1932, based on extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex. 20:21:04 <tswett> `culprits wisdom/sex 20:21:05 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan tswett 20:21:44 <tswett> `run sed -i -e "s/extensive/the author's extensive/" wisdom/sex 20:21:45 <HackEgo> No output. 20:21:47 <tswett> `? sex 20:21:48 <HackEgo> Sex is a board game which originated in Britain in the 1870s before spreading throughout Europe in the 1890s. Sex was introduced to the rest of the world by a book, "The Complete Guide to Sex", written and published in 1932, based on the author's extensive experience with a wide variety of forms of European sex. 20:24:17 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:27:48 -!- quietello has quit (Quit: quietello). 20:28:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:30:28 <b_jonas> nice! spam in Serbian again 20:30:35 <b_jonas> I really get spam in so many different languages 20:31:03 <J_Arcane> http://yarchive.net/comp/polyglot.html 20:31:33 <b_jonas> I mean sure, the spammers won't know what language to write me, and I won't tell them, so it's not surprising, but it's changed in these last five years 20:31:43 <b_jonas> in the old days all the spam was English or Chinese only 20:33:07 <b_jonas> no, each spam in one specific language, not one spam that works in many languages. or maybe there are spams in many language but I don't execute their fancy javascript that makes that work. 20:36:23 -!- quietello has joined. 20:53:50 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 20:53:56 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 20:56:00 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:59:21 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:59:24 <HackEgo> myndzi/myndzi keeps us all on our feet 20:59:32 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:59:33 <HackEgo> monqy/The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery; ask itidus21 for details. 20:59:37 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:59:38 <HackEgo> thausiblee/A thausiblee is the recipient of a thausible action. 20:59:43 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:59:44 <HackEgo> fternoon/Fternoon is the time of day when the Danes usually eat their fternooners. 21:00:29 <shachaf> `? fternooner 21:00:29 <HackEgo> fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”) is a screamingly delicious pastry. 21:01:05 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:01:07 <HackEgo> procrastination/The Procrastination is destined to rule the world... right after watching this last funny cat clip on youtube. 21:01:12 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:01:13 <HackEgo> norway/Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. 21:01:20 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:01:21 <HackEgo> rdococ rdococlikestomakelanguageslikethis/rdococ RDOCOCLIKESTOMAKELANGUAGESLIKETHIS 21:01:28 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/norway 21:01:30 <HackEgo> No output. 21:01:44 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:04:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:10:23 <oren> i'm back from a very long interview 21:11:08 <b_jonas> oren: good, what was it like, and which side were you? 21:12:41 <oren> I was being interviewed, and I talked to three engineers, two Directors, and the CTO. They asked me to solve all kinds of programming problems 21:13:28 <oren> Including "reverse the words in a string, in place, without reversing the letters" 21:14:17 <pikhq> Hmm. That's actually a slightly tricky version of that. 21:14:38 <oren> The directors and the CTO wer talking to me by google hangouts 21:15:02 <b_jonas> oren: ok 21:15:28 <oren> I'll tell you my solution: reverse the whole string, then find each word and reverse it 21:15:39 <oren> ON 21:15:42 <pikhq> Hah! I like it. 21:15:43 <oren> O(N) 21:16:00 <zzo38> That is what I thought too 21:16:52 <zzo38> Another alternative is to just do both at the same time 21:17:08 <pikhq> I was initially thinking of trying to swap words in place, but that's probably a non-starter. 21:17:14 <b_jonas> and then you have to reverse each delimiter between the words as well 21:17:37 <oren> I initially tried doing that, but it ended up being O(N^3) 21:17:40 <b_jonas> so yes, two pass is probably the easiest 21:18:10 <oren> or maybe O(N^2), at least two loop levels anyway 21:18:21 <pikhq> it might be possible to get it faster (by a constant factor) with some temporary storage. 21:18:54 <pikhq> But I think that's your best approach overall. 21:19:52 <zzo38> How much money do you want to create a proxy server that accesses Wikipedia and then returns it in plaintext (with http:// and not https://)? 21:20:08 <zzo38> (And it has to be public) 21:20:30 <pikhq> I'd prefer writing a high-quality and simple SSL lib. 21:20:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: I'm not going to host public proxies like that, no. 21:21:01 <b_jonas> not even read-only ones 21:21:19 <oren> Is it possible to implement SSL faster if you're only doing it because the other side is? 21:21:24 <b_jonas> zzo38: why is the api not accessible in http still? 21:21:29 <b_jonas> even if https is the default 21:21:35 <zzo38> I don't know, they refuse to fix it 21:21:38 <pikhq> oren: Not if you are trying to be reasonable. 21:21:54 <pikhq> oren: You can implement SSL without ciphers, but no server *should* be doing it. 21:21:54 <zzo38> Even writing plain HTTP requests on port 443 fails with a 400 error. 21:21:57 <oren> IOW simplify the SSL at the cost of your own security 21:21:58 <b_jonas> zzo38: I mean, for just reading, you don't even have to send login cookies 21:22:09 <b_jonas> zzo38: well sure, they're on port 80 probably 21:22:20 <b_jonas> not on the same port 21:22:25 <zzo38> If I send a request on port 80 it tries to redirect to HTTPS 21:22:32 <pikhq> oren: The funny thing is, you can simplify SSL better at the cost of not working with insecurity. :) 21:22:41 <b_jonas> zzo38: let me test this 21:22:48 <oren> heh 21:22:49 <pikhq> The secure cipher suites are frankly not that complicated. 21:23:01 <b_jonas> I mean, if you wanted to edit or do other things that require a login, maybe 21:23:06 <b_jonas> but for just reading 21:23:09 <pikhq> OpenSSL is punishing itself by being very poorly designed. 21:23:14 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:23:15 <HackEgo> scotland/<Phantom_Hoover> it's that place where they all wear kilts and chase haggises around whilst warding off the loch ness monster with bagpipes 21:23:28 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:23:29 <HackEgo> ant/ants are animals too hth 21:23:33 <zzo38> I want insecure connection even for writing though. 21:23:43 <pikhq> And dealing with some crazy, crazy OSes. 21:23:59 <zzo38> But I would prefer digest authentication and PUT rather than using forms and cookies. 21:24:04 <pikhq> (who gives a shit about OpenVMS's bizarre problems with argv? Fix your damned compiler!) 21:24:10 <b_jonas> hmm, indeed it seems to redirect to https by default 21:24:25 <b_jonas> let me see if there's some easy way to override that 21:24:37 <zzo38> No matter what header I add I cannot turn that off; I tried. 21:24:49 <b_jonas> zzo38: ok, I'd just like to see it for myself still 21:25:05 <zzo38> OK 21:26:09 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:30:17 <zzo38> If you really want security, you should be using keys agreed in person, where the client requires the key too as well as the server, and the key consist of a number displayed on a security card with constantly changing numbers, and the user's password, combined together. And you have to avoid HTML and CSS, and require a command-line interface with ANSI-stripping. 21:31:11 <oren> if you really want security, just phyiscially isolate the data 21:32:20 <zzo38> You have to avoid root certificates too, since that can be tampered with. 21:32:26 <oren> have an armed courier carry the data on an sd card. 21:33:38 <zzo38> Or a DVD encrypted with a one-time-pad 21:35:36 <zzo38> It isn't only data security though; there is also software security issue. That's why you have to avoid HTML. If you have a color display, make the interactive terminal session with the server in a different color than the operating system's command-line, and use ANSI-stripping to force it. 21:37:44 <b_jonas> ah, I see 21:38:04 <b_jonas> zzo38: apparently they deliberately made HTTPS mandatory for accessing, with no way to force HTTP 21:38:12 <b_jonas> or at least https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/HTTPS claism so 21:38:26 <zzo38> Yes, and they won't fix it 21:39:57 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:40:21 <b_jonas> this means it's not just a matter of choosing the right hostname or some other trivial option to revert to http explicitly 21:40:41 <b_jonas> I guess you'll probably have to use it with https 21:40:55 <b_jonas> sorry 21:41:17 <b_jonas> sure, a proxy is possible, and you could run one, but I definitely won't run a _public_ one 21:42:02 <zzo38> Even if you get paid one million dollars? 21:42:16 <zzo38> (Or the equivalent for the currency wherever you are) 21:42:38 <b_jonas> dunno, I'd investigate further if there was a serious offer for that. one million dollars for running the proxy for how long? I can't guarantee such a thing indefinitely 21:43:13 <zzo38> For as long as Wikipedia forces HTTPS 21:43:34 <b_jonas> I definitely can't do that _alone_. I might die before that ends. 21:44:00 <b_jonas> and I'm not good at setting up companies, that's not really my task 21:45:45 <b_jonas> this is silly, the reasons they give for no opt-out are silly, they cover only some mechanisms for opt-out, but not all reasonable mechanisms 21:49:05 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:51:12 <zzo38> I don't see how plain HTTP connections on port 443 would be much problem for them, even if plain HTTP connections on port 80 can be a problem. A different set of cookies can be used too (since you can specify which cookies are for secure connections only) 21:57:34 -!- boily has joined. 21:57:44 <boily> @metar CYUL 21:57:45 <lambdabot> CYUL 182100Z 17007KT 160V240 30SM SCT050TCU BKN150 BKN240 27/18 A2978 RMK TCU4AC1CI1 SLP085 DENSITY ALT 1600FT 21:58:25 <olsner> @metar ESSL 21:58:26 <lambdabot> ESSL 182150Z 01002KT 9999 -SHRA FEW007CB SCT021 BKN035 11/11 Q1002 22:00:23 <boily> hellolsner. quite humid? 22:00:30 <boily> @massages-loud 22:00:30 <lambdabot> oerjan said 4h 31m 17s ago: shellocking 22:12:03 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:12:06 -!- mihow_ has joined. 22:15:47 <olsner> boily: I think it's raining 22:16:16 <olsner> I might have gotten the metar of somewhere else entirely though 22:23:58 <boily> all metars are somewhere else. it's just that some are more elsewhere than others. 22:34:00 * pikhq now just has to wait for an offer letter. 22:35:16 <shachaf> "just"? 22:35:25 <shachaf> Is there nothing more beyond that? 22:35:48 <pikhq> Well, there *is*. I need to talk with relocation team to discuss relocation options, I need to move, so on. 22:36:18 <shachaf> you should ask them for more money hth 22:36:22 <shachaf> or at least i should have done that 22:36:56 <shachaf> or maybe you're past all that nonsense 22:48:31 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:49:54 -!- Froox has joined. 22:53:13 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (*.net *.split). 22:53:26 -!- lemurian has quit (*.net *.split). 22:53:27 -!- aretecode has quit (*.net *.split). 22:53:27 -!- Herbalist has quit (*.net *.split). 22:53:27 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 22:53:27 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 22:53:27 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 22:53:27 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:03:19 -!- FireFly has joined. 23:04:04 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 23:04:05 -!- lemurian has joined. 23:04:05 -!- aretecode has joined. 23:04:05 -!- Herbalist has joined. 23:04:05 -!- aloril has joined. 23:04:05 -!- tromp has joined. 23:04:05 -!- newsham has joined. 23:10:58 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:12:55 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 23:26:31 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:26:51 -!- GeekDude has joined. 23:35:36 <quintopia> hellllllllo 23:36:52 <boily> qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqquinthellopia. 23:37:08 <boily> (how does one go about pronouncing 'qqqqqqqqqqq'?) 23:37:33 <pikhq> Haldo. 23:37:40 <boily> Haldotopia! 23:43:37 <quintopia> sup the boily and the pikhq 23:43:48 <quintopia> what excitements did i miss 23:44:08 <pikhq> Imma movin' to California. 23:44:09 <quintopia> oh btw boily wolves did win 23:44:15 <quintopia> i e 23:44:25 <quintopia> do you already have a job 23:44:45 <pikhq> Google hired me. 23:44:48 <boily> pikhq: you're unbalancing the chännel hth 23:44:52 <boily> quintopia: woot! 23:45:07 <pikhq> boily: Hah. 23:46:01 <fowl> Google told me to write more java. I said I'm not that desperate yet :< 23:46:16 <pikhq> Who said anything about Java? 23:46:41 <boily> fellowl. Java is fine. 23:47:02 <zzo38> Is there the MIME type for "ASCII record format"? 23:47:19 <fowl> I'm sure #esoteric loves java, wouldn't surprise me 23:47:26 <quintopia> give me a plug at google. maybe theyd hire me this time 23:47:27 <boily> hezzo38. record, as with GS/RS/US/FS? 23:47:33 <zzo38> boily: Yes 23:47:50 <quintopia> at the very least they may give me another free trip to cali 23:47:52 <boily> hmm... I wouldn't think so, but it'd be quite useful. 23:48:00 <boily> zzo38: perhaps x-vendor/x-record? 23:48:02 <pikhq> zzo38: text/plain? 23:48:31 <boily> pikhq: pikhelloq, before I forget I hadn't porhelloed you. 23:48:33 <zzo38> pikhq: It isn't really plain text though, it is split into records and stuff like that 23:48:43 <pikhq> Or maybe text/vnd.ascii 23:49:11 <pikhq> text/vnd.ascii-record? 23:49:20 <boily> it's ASCII, but it's... more than ASCII, kwim? 23:49:36 <zzo38> It is ASCII, but it isn't plain text. 23:49:42 <pikhq> Nah, it's 100% ASCII it's just using ASCII control characters that aren't used much. 23:49:54 <pikhq> It's using ASCII for the purpose of storing records. 23:50:00 <boily> text/swamp? text/forest? 23:50:20 <pikhq> CSV would be the more "standard" way of doing this, mind you. 23:50:38 <zzo38> I don't really like CSV though 23:51:10 <zzo38> Also it fails if the data contains line breaks and so on; ASCII records format is probably going to be simpler 23:51:25 <pikhq> CSV can represent that if you implement it correctly. 23:51:36 <pikhq> But, yeah, CSV does kinda suck. 23:52:47 <zzo38> Still, I thought, "vnd." means vendor specific and it isn't really vendor-specific but maybe "text/x-ascii" should be used I don't know 23:52:54 <pikhq> The more obvious means of representing records in ASCII is, of course, using unit seperator (U+001F) and record seperator (U+001E), with escape (U+001B) to escape instances of those bytes in the record. 23:53:12 <pikhq> (as well as itself, of course) 23:56:15 <zzo38> I would use DLE to escape instances of those in the data rather than ESC, I think 23:59:04 <oren> DLE? 2015-06-19: 00:00:42 <zzo38> DLE = Data Link Escape; Cause the following octets to be interpreted as raw data, not as control codes or graphic characters. Returning to normal usage would be implementation dependent. 00:06:12 <zzo38> Soon the government is going to use preloaded HSTS to spy on people. 00:08:19 <pikhq> zzo38: Ah, sure. 00:08:28 <pikhq> So DLE escapes the next octet. 00:08:49 <pikhq> Has the especially nice property that your control codes are essentially unused. 00:09:53 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, that's much of the reasoning too, that I have. 00:10:12 <pikhq> While ESC isn't used *much*, it at least is used *at all*. 00:14:32 -!- mihow_ has quit (Quit: mihow_). 00:16:49 -!- mihow has joined. 00:32:20 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 00:40:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Kingofthenerdz3]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43223 * Kingofthenerdz3 * (+16) Created page with "Nothing for now." 00:52:25 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 00:55:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COPLANAR CHICKEN). 01:30:50 <zzo38> Do you think this is OK designing project management system? http://sprunge.us/OZPW 01:31:48 <coppro> what is the purpose of the dummy? 01:32:36 <zzo38> To force SQLite to create a SHARED lock on the database. Normally, locks are deferred; you can create an immediate lock on the database but this is only for writing, not possible for reading. 01:32:49 <coppro> ahhh ok 01:33:09 <coppro> I've thought about similar stuff for postgres 01:33:28 <coppro> the combination of linear and nonlinear permissions seems strange 01:33:41 <coppro> especially because the version permissions are in increments of 50 01:44:47 <zzo38> That's just in case other stuff needs to be added later on, although I could use bits instead I suppose 01:59:18 <coppro> zzo38: why use Julian dates rather than Unix timestamps? 02:02:48 <oren> maybe the thing is 32 bits? 02:35:47 <zzo38> coppro: SQLite uses Julian dates normally, that's why 02:37:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:40:49 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:51:12 <zzo38> What is the duration of the sun minus the hyposinute multiplied by the square root of a circle without any area plus the meaning of life minus 31? 03:28:37 <zzo38> That is a title of one Hero Heart puzzle I made. Other titles are "Painting the roses^Whearts red", "SUPERMAN IS DEAD Heartland!", "I do not like this word 'bomb'", "Let's throw grenades at each other!", "What Happens When You Have Too Much Money", "Generating solutions of Einstein's field equations by typing mistakes", "Oops! How are you supposed to play Hero Hearts if the hearts are upside-down?", etc. 03:39:32 <zzo38> The puzzles themself are strange too; in one puzzle it is necessary to throw a grenade at an empty field, in another it is necessary to throw a grenade into the water (resulting in a message "That was a waste of a good grenade! Who taught you how to throw a grenade?"), in another level it is necessary to hit a heart with a missile (resulting in a message "Now that you have so smartly blown up that heart, it is impossible to solve this level. Sorry!" 03:41:50 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 03:42:05 <zzo38> The messages themself are important in this case; if the rules of the game were modified to supporess these messages then the level would be impossible to solve. 03:42:41 <zzo38> When you do Magic: the Gathering, we also have to do stuff even more strange than that! 03:44:21 <zzo38> Do you like to make up any Magic: the Puzzling, please? 03:48:26 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:11:14 -!- password2_ has joined. 04:15:34 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:37:23 -!- MDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:37:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ye Olde Alchemist]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43224 * Kingofthenerdz3 * (+1701) Created page with "Ye Olde Alchemist is a esolang by [[User:Kingofthenerdz3]].It is still an idea in development.Programs are are ancient alchemical recipes.It is influenced by Chef. ==How it ..." 04:38:43 <zzo38> Is there any way to disable HSTS in clients that support it other than editing the executable file to change the name of the header into one that isn't a header name it is actually capable of receiving? 04:39:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Kingofthenerdz3 * moved [[Ye Olde Alchemist]] to [[Esolang:Ye Olde Alchemist]] 04:39:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * Kingofthenerdz3 * moved [[Esolang:Ye Olde Alchemist]] to [[Ye Olde Alchemist]] over redirect 04:39:51 <zzo38> There are several problems with HSTS, including privacy issues. 04:41:58 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 04:57:45 <Sgeo> zzo38, any more detail? 04:58:20 <Sgeo> Well, I get the point about the privacy issue I think 04:58:46 <Sgeo> Can make arbitrary domains that you set HSTS or not on and that stores a bit per domain, right? 04:58:54 <zzo38> Yes, that is a part of it 04:59:30 <zzo38> But you can also use the expiry times to do stuff 05:00:08 <zzo38> It also prevents you from manually overriding, from defining your own proxies that would intercept it, and other problems 05:00:19 <zzo38> HSTS is just a bad design in general. 05:23:15 <zzo38> A lot of people know neither good security nor good software design. Some hotels have elevators that you need a keycard, in order to prevent thieves from coming in, but the actual effect is the opposite; they can come in just fine if someone else is in, or use the stairs, or steal someone's keycard and find their room much more easily than if the elevator did not require a keycard. 05:26:46 <zzo38> Web-browser software is also, just way too complicated to be any good. 05:42:10 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:43:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: agreed, DLE (= control-P) makes more sense to escape the next char, it's already used as such in some cases 05:43:12 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:44:06 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes I know that some programs use that already 06:06:37 <Sgeo> I think locally installed certificates can override HSTS 06:07:13 <Sgeo> If not, at least Chrome lets you delete HSTS entries 06:07:31 <zzo38> I saw that, but it says you can't delete preloaded entries 06:08:40 <Sgeo> At work tomorrow I might try intercepting Google with Charles and see what happens 06:08:47 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 06:08:47 <Sgeo> Don't have Charles on this machine 06:09:02 <zzo38> You also can't disable it, either for certain domains or for everything. Better would be in a kind of about:config stuff you can specify the default HSTS mode (force on, force off, use headers, try insecure), and for each domain you can also define the HSTS modes. 06:09:28 <b_jonas> zzo38: but the problem here is not the HSTS, it's that the https is enforced on server side 06:09:53 <Sgeo> b_jonas, in a sane world, sure 06:09:54 <b_jonas> with apparently no specific way to overrid it 06:09:55 <zzo38> Yes, for Wikipedia and other things there is that too, but HSTS can still cause problems too whether or not that is the case. 06:10:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: ok, it might cause problems in other cases 06:10:46 <b_jonas> zzo38: so I understand why you say it's bad design, but why can't you still access wikipedia with https? 06:11:04 <zzo38> I can, sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't work though. 06:11:13 <b_jonas> ok 06:11:21 <b_jonas> I thought you'd say something more specific 06:11:48 <zzo38> Even for servers that only work on HTTPS, the HSTS can still stop certain other things you might want to do for debugging or anything else, from working too. 06:12:43 <zzo38> Also the forced HTTPS prevents me from doing packet inspection or connecting from a client that doesn't use HTTPS. 06:13:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: can you use a local (private) proxy then? 06:14:19 <zzo38> I don't even know how to configure Mozilla to use plain HTTP on a proxy when https:// is specified. 06:14:47 <zzo38> But another reason I cannot use a local proxy is due to the mixed up clock; even if I try to fix it, it gets mixed up. 06:15:23 <b_jonas> I see https, but what's "mixed up clock"? 06:15:23 <zzo38> And my computer isn't particularly powerful enough either. 06:15:55 <zzo38> I mean the RTC in my computer seems to run too slowly. 06:15:57 <b_jonas> it needn't be on exactly the same computer, it could be on another computer on the lan with fast connection between the two 06:16:23 <b_jonas> um, but how is the clock a problem here? 06:16:47 <zzo38> I don't really know if the clock is a problem. But I thought it might be. 06:16:56 <b_jonas> ok 06:17:44 <b_jonas> my rtc clock usually runs a bit too fast, but it's not really a problem because I can correct it to enough precision by syncing to a time server on the internet 06:19:13 -!- zadock has joined. 06:19:24 <zzo38> I have several clocks, and synchronize them with the Weather Channel when they need to be set. I set the portable analog clock from the TV, the digital clock in my bedroom from the analog clock, and the computer from the digital clock. 06:20:06 <b_jonas> it's more a problem at the company, where the servers have the clocks going horribly wrong, sometimes several minutes off, and I don't have the authority to set their clocks to sync 06:20:39 <b_jonas> I used to sync to the radio in old times, but these days I sync to the internet 06:21:03 <b_jonas> (and then sync other clocks to the computer synced to the internet) 06:21:16 <b_jonas> (sometimes two levels deep) 06:21:26 <zzo38> I think there is a time signal on CBC radio, but I have no computer hardware to connect to radio or software to decode the time signal. 06:22:10 <b_jonas> I didn't decode by hardware, I just pressed enter at the beep or something 06:22:55 <zzo38> That is another way yes, slightly less precise but probably still good enough 06:23:20 <b_jonas> syncing to television doesn't sound like a good idea, because it sometimes has a second or two of delay, probably because it goes through satellite links 06:23:36 <b_jonas> I trust radio more 06:24:07 <zzo38> Yes, although the radio doesn't have the time signal all the time 06:24:16 <b_jonas> yes 06:24:22 <b_jonas> but it has it at predictable times 06:24:32 <zzo38> Yes, there is that, at least. 06:25:53 <zzo38> But also with television, the delay will be more with digital television than with analog, even. (I have both digital and analog, in different rooms. I tend to use the analog more, but other people in here mostly use the digital television.) 06:26:58 <b_jonas> I've seen a second of delay in analog, though probably some intermediate link was already digital 06:27:36 <b_jonas> and perhaps the time signal doesn't have that, only some programs that have to show live image 06:28:47 <b_jonas> I don't think we have analog television anymore. analog tv on radio waves has been discontinued a few years ago, and I don't think any of the cable ones are analog still. 06:29:15 <b_jonas> the satelite-based receivers are probably digital too 06:29:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:30:23 <zzo38> A problem with a digital cable box is that you have to use their software and remote control (or a remote control with the same codes, but you can't add your own functions or remove existing functions). Also makes it difficult to use with a VCR. 06:33:04 * oerjan skips the logs hth 06:40:20 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:39:23 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 08:15:08 -!- rdococ has joined. 08:26:15 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:53:35 <b_jonas> `? ^ 08:53:53 <b_jonas> um, hackego? 08:53:57 <HackEgo> ​^? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 08:54:17 <b_jonas> `? CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT 08:54:17 <HackEgo> CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 08:54:26 <b_jonas> `? xor 08:54:26 <HackEgo> xor? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 08:54:38 <b_jonas> `? bit_xor 08:54:39 <HackEgo> bit_xor? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 08:54:53 <Taneb> b_jonas, what are you trying to do 08:56:03 <b_jonas> Taneb: dunno, I just didn't understand why it didn't reply to `? ^ 08:56:15 <Taneb> `run ? ^ 08:56:16 <HackEgo> bash: 0: command not found 08:56:22 <Taneb> `run ? \^ 08:56:25 <HackEgo> bash: 0: command not found 08:56:30 <Taneb> That is an odd error 08:56:44 <b_jonas> why? 08:56:48 <b_jonas> ? is a wildcard expansion 08:57:02 <b_jonas> and the first file it finds with a matching name is 0 08:57:02 <Taneb> `run \? \^ 08:57:04 <HackEgo> ​^? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 08:57:05 <b_jonas> that's how shell works 08:57:11 <Taneb> Ah 08:57:15 <Taneb> I did not know that 08:58:03 <b_jonas> `` locale 08:58:03 <HackEgo> LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ 08:59:00 <b_jonas> `` (LC_COLLATE=C; echo ?) 08:59:00 <HackEgo> 0 08:59:04 <b_jonas> `` (LC_COLLATE=C; echo *) 08:59:04 <HackEgo> 0 113500 :-( :-D Complaints MaFV Wierd a.o a.out bdsmreclist bin blah canary cat dc dog emoticons error.log etc factor faith fu head hello hello.c hi hours ibin index.html?dl=1812 interps le lib paste pref prefs py.py quines quotes random_elliott real script.py selflink share src twolines wisdom wisdom.pdf 08:59:28 <zzo38> I also fixed it so that you can use ``` to set the locale to the C locale, as a shortcut for that 08:59:56 <b_jonas> oh nice 09:00:04 <zzo38> Instead of having to type LC_COLLATE=C and whatever 09:01:10 <b_jonas> zzo38: I usually run everything with a mixed locale: LC_CTYPE is set but every other category is C locale. this has even triggered a nasty libc bug that comes up only for mixed locale, but that was lots of years ago and fixed since. 09:02:45 <b_jonas> ideally I wish there was an environment variable to define the encoding of the terminal, without involving locales, but LC_CTYPE is a workaround that works in most of the cases. (I also wish terminal libraries accepted a _list_ of terminfo terminal names instead of just one.) 09:06:30 <b_jonas> `` cat "bin/```" 09:06:31 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 09:06:35 <b_jonas> `` cat "bin/``" 09:06:36 <HackEgo> cat: bin/: Is a directory 09:06:41 -!- Herbalist has joined. 09:06:42 <b_jonas> `` cat "bin/\`\`" 09:06:43 <HackEgo> export LANG=C; bash -c "$1" 09:06:49 <b_jonas> right, metacharacter 09:07:26 <b_jonas> ``` locale 09:07:27 <HackEgo> LANG=C \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="C" \ LC_NUMERIC="C" \ LC_TIME="C" \ LC_COLLATE="C" \ LC_MONETARY="C" \ LC_MESSAGES="C" \ LC_PAPER="C" \ LC_NAME="C" \ LC_ADDRESS="C" \ LC_TELEPHONE="C" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="C" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="C" \ LC_ALL= 09:09:22 <b_jonas> ``` sed -i 's/;.*1"/; exec bash -c "$@"/' 'bin/``' # doesn't matter much, but can't hurt 09:09:30 <HackEgo> No output. 09:09:31 <b_jonas> ``` locale 09:09:32 <HackEgo> LANG=C \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="C" \ LC_NUMERIC="C" \ LC_TIME="C" \ LC_COLLATE="C" \ LC_MONETARY="C" \ LC_MESSAGES="C" \ LC_PAPER="C" \ LC_NAME="C" \ LC_ADDRESS="C" \ LC_TELEPHONE="C" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="C" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="C" \ LC_ALL= 09:13:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:41:16 -!- gniourf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:00:38 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 10:00:41 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Client Quit). 10:02:01 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 10:17:11 -!- boily has joined. 10:25:15 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:28:56 -!- aretecode has joined. 10:35:21 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:50:23 <b_jonas> oh! "libpq" is the database client library of PostgreSQL, right? 10:57:52 -!- Herbalist has joined. 11:15:54 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:20:19 -!- jix has joined. 11:22:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PITTORESQUE CHICKEN). 11:23:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:28:26 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 11:30:20 -!- hjulle has joined. 11:34:54 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 12:29:27 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:32:24 * Taneb hello 13:04:51 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:36:15 <tswett> Neural net link of the day: 13:36:16 <tswett> http://www.youtube.com/u/182786/07/02/bin/oerjan/particular-lower-documentation-example 13:42:49 <Jafet> `oerjan 13:42:56 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/oerjan: line 1: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA: 13:43:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:47:06 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:18:25 -!- tertu has joined. 14:29:43 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:40:49 -!- gamemanj has joined. 14:40:50 * Taneb really needs to learn Java 14:53:37 <int-e> `cat bin/`` 14:53:37 <HackEgo> export LANG=C; exec bash -c "$@" 14:53:42 <int-e> `cat bin/` 14:53:43 <HackEgo> TIMEFORMAT='real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS' exec bash -c -- "$1" 15:00:04 <tswett> `cat bin/oerjan 15:00:04 <HackEgo> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 15:00:49 <tswett> `` ln -s selflink bin/selflink 15:00:51 <HackEgo> No output. 15:01:02 <tswett> `selflink 15:01:02 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: selflink: not found 15:01:10 <tswett> `` bin/selflink 15:01:10 <HackEgo> bash: bin/selflink: Too many levels of symbolic links 15:09:08 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:12:39 -!- blade310 has joined. 15:13:29 -!- blade310 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:37:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: going home). 16:01:17 -!- Guest83580 has joined. 16:03:12 -!- Guest83580 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:04:17 -!- Wright has joined. 16:11:26 -!- password2 has joined. 16:27:40 <oren> I am now the proud owner of a framed paper, with "Oren Isaac Watson" in a cursive font, and "Honours Bachelor of Science with Distinction" in an uncial font. 16:28:13 <Taneb> :) 16:28:27 <Taneb> oren, where is your alma mater? 16:28:39 <b_jonas> oren: great 16:28:52 <oren> University of Toronto 16:29:50 <Taneb> That's dangerously close to a university which almost shares its name with my university! 16:30:20 <oren> oh, right, York University. My dad works there 16:31:02 <Taneb> Yeah, I'm at University of York 16:31:09 <Taneb> Congrats, by the way :) 16:31:16 <Taneb> Thinking of doing a master's? 16:31:30 <oren> Not right away 16:31:46 <pikhq> Awesome. 16:31:49 <Taneb> Fair :) 16:32:38 <oren> However I do plan to the the JLPT 3 this winter 16:32:49 <oren> s/the/take/ 16:33:34 <b_jonas> um, what's that? 16:33:36 <Taneb> JLPT? 16:33:46 <pikhq> Japanese Language Proficiency Test. 16:33:49 <oren> yah 16:33:50 <b_jonas> ah! 16:34:05 <oren> there are 5 levels with 1 the highest 16:34:11 <Taneb> :) 16:34:17 <pikhq> The "日本語能力試験". 16:34:18 <Taneb> So, you start at -4? 16:34:21 <Taneb> :P 16:34:35 <oren> :B 16:34:42 <FreeFull> I'm at the University of Reading 16:34:50 <tswett> Insert "reading" pun here. 16:34:53 <pikhq> Serious question: should I accept this Google job offer? 16:35:02 <pikhq> (:P) 16:35:11 <FreeFull> I'd much rather work for Mozilla than Google 16:35:27 <Taneb> FreeFull, one of my almost-friends from high school is at Reading! 16:35:32 <tswett> pikhq: well, is there a reason you wouldn't accept it? 16:35:38 <pikhq> No. 16:35:46 <FreeFull> I've read Google's interview process is annoying 16:35:49 <Taneb> Wow, he is studying computer science! 16:35:50 <oren> then accept it. 16:36:03 <FreeFull> Taneb: Which year? 16:36:13 <Taneb> FreeFull, unsure, either first or second 16:36:18 <Taneb> Chris "Easty" Eastwood 16:36:19 <pikhq> FreeFull: It is, but I'm on the other side of it. 16:37:40 <Taneb> pikhq, what would you be doing? 16:37:46 <FreeFull> Taneb: I don't recognise the name 16:37:48 <b_jonas> pikhq: try to find people you know who already work at Google. ask them what it's like. 16:37:50 <pikhq> Site reliability engineering. 16:37:56 <pikhq> b_jonas: I did. 16:38:02 <pikhq> The question was not actually serious. 16:38:09 <pikhq> And I already hit accept. 16:38:25 <Taneb> FreeFull, fair enough :) 16:38:50 <b_jonas> but you said... ok, good luck 16:39:14 <FreeFull> Taneb: Maybe if I saw a photo I could recognise him, but no guarantees 16:39:24 <pikhq> b_jonas: Was a joke. 16:41:20 <oren> pikhq: are you going to work in California or at a local site 16:41:25 <pikhq> California. 16:41:29 <oren> nice. 16:41:31 <Taneb> FreeFull, PM'd you a photo 16:43:28 -!- mihow has joined. 17:29:28 <shachaf> pikhq: Do you know what you'll be SREing? 17:36:20 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:44:41 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:51:19 -!- mihow has joined. 18:07:18 <tswett> Ignoring the timestamps, this bit of autogenerated log seems pretty plausible: 18:07:26 <tswett> 07:52:41: <oerjan> wait, you can still control iteration in the discarded argument 18:07:27 <tswett> 00:13:13: <oerjan> darn 18:07:27 <tswett> 04:21:49: <oerjan> right 18:13:04 <tswett> Taneb: no, you start at -3. 18:19:17 <pikhq> shachaf: No. 18:22:36 <shachaf> You've already accepted it? 18:23:53 <shachaf> When are you moving here? 18:25:03 <pikhq> Uh, probably some time in the next couple weeks. 18:25:23 <pikhq> I talk with relocation people on Monday. 18:28:28 <int-e> Oh wow, Carlsen lost again. 18:29:01 <pikhq> I am gonna set up an appointment with an optometrist like, on my start date... 18:29:14 <coppro> pikhq: i.e. after the insurance kicks in? 18:29:17 <pikhq> Yep. 18:29:25 <pikhq> I'm *pretty* sure my prescription is a bit off these days. 18:32:54 -!- SopaXT has joined. 18:34:56 -!- SopaXT has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:39:50 <shachaf> Andrej Bauer is great. 18:40:08 <shachaf> http://andrej.com/fan.html 18:43:47 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 18:44:47 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:46:27 -!- jameseb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:46:56 -!- glguy has joined. 18:47:35 -!- glguy has left. 18:58:49 -!- nys has joined. 19:14:37 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:14:38 <HackEgo> eurovision/Eurovision is the European way of looking at the world. For some reason it involves a lot of cheesy singing. 19:14:42 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:14:43 <HackEgo> cls/cls is a command to clear the screen. 19:16:49 <b_jonas> heh this is riddiculous 19:16:53 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:17:23 <int-e> but it's true! 19:17:30 <b_jonas> no! 19:17:33 <b_jonas> it's all speculation 19:17:37 <b_jonas> that's why it's riddiculous 19:17:51 <int-e> is the typo intentional? 19:18:20 <b_jonas> there's barely any reliable historical data, but the historians make all kinds of crazy specific hypothesis from the very little data they can find 19:18:30 <b_jonas> int-e: no, I just can't spell 19:18:37 <int-e> . o O ( hmm, riddleculous ) 19:19:43 <b_jonas> I can't pronounce either. if I could, "riddiculous" wouldn't make sense as the spelling 19:19:45 <int-e> of course that pun would've worked better if the answer had been "yes". 19:20:09 <b_jonas> apparently it's stressed on the second syllable 19:22:05 <int-e> `? ridicule 19:22:06 <HackEgo> ridicule? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:24:04 <b_jonas> int-e: yeah but no, not because of that 19:24:49 <b_jonas> first syllable is just my default assumption of basically every word because Hungarian has fixed stress on first syllable and I don't know enough about English pronunciation to have good guesses about stress 19:28:31 <oren> hmm... In English stress can actually make it a different word 19:28:41 <b_jonas> oren: yes, but rarely 19:28:54 <b_jonas> much rarely than just plain homonyms that are stressed the same too 19:29:02 <b_jonas> s/much rarely/much more rarely/ 19:30:12 <oren> Also the word "defence" can be stressed either way 19:32:25 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:32:26 <HackEgo> york/York used to be known as Amsterdam. 19:33:11 <oren> And then there are various words, where the shift turns a verb into a noun 19:33:46 <oren> reCORD - verb REcord - noun 19:34:17 <oren> the two words are otherwise identical in pronounciation 19:34:54 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:34:56 <HackEgo> chuchichäschtli/chuchichäschtli is spoken as [ˈχʊχːiˌχæʃːtli] 19:38:43 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 19:39:45 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:49:15 <b_jonas> oren: yeah, that's a quite famous example: "table", "record", "rebel" and a few other words change their hyphenation depending on their meaning, so they can't be automatically hyphenated 19:50:28 <b_jonas> I don't think Hungarian has any word that can change hyphenation, though in theory such a word could exist. That doesn't mean we have perfect hyphenation algorithms of course, because there are words it just doesn't know. 19:51:01 <b_jonas> Of course, the Hungarian hyphenation rules are very simple. There's about four rules total. 19:51:17 <b_jonas> Maybe five or something. depends on how you count. 19:55:18 <shachaf> The shachaf hyphenation rule is that when you run out of space in the line and you're in the middle of a word, you write a hyphen. 19:55:50 <b_jonas> Hmm, maybe there is such a word. There are four possible ambiguities I can think of that could result in such a word, though two seem very unlikely to actually cause an example. 19:56:48 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:56:52 <HackEgo> famicom/Famicom is a famous sitcom from Japan. 19:57:28 <int-e> shouldn't it be famikomu then... 19:57:34 <shachaf> zzo38: I thought Famicom was another name for the Nintendo Entertainment System. 19:58:14 <int-e> `wisdom trust 19:58:15 <HackEgo> chess/Chess is a complex boardgame, where players exchange unclear royal steaks until they decide which of them has lost. The game is recorded through the Gringmuth Moving Pineapple Notation. 19:58:39 <int-e> `? trust 19:58:39 <HackEgo> trust? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:58:40 <shachaf> Oh, it sounds like I'm wrong. 19:58:41 <int-e> oops. 20:01:31 <shachaf> Oh, it sounds like I'm wrong about being wrong. 20:11:53 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:12:08 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:14:17 <rdococ> stop being wrong 20:18:59 <rdococ> also... 20:19:25 <rdococ> imagine a negative currency... &3 = -$3 20:20:22 <fowl> We could use negadollars to balance out inflation? 20:22:15 <rdococ> hmm... I wonder if that would work 20:22:53 <rdococ> because if both dollars and minus dollars become common, then.. would that balance out inflation ...? 20:22:57 <rdococ> or wouldn't it? 20:23:03 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 20:23:12 <rdococ> also, cant you just throw away a negadollar...? 20:23:43 <rdococ> "omg I have this -$10000 note... I'll just burn it." 20:24:25 <int-e> you'll throw the monetary system off balance 20:24:36 <int-e> so nothing to worry about 20:24:42 <fowl> Hmm yea I'm not an economizer 20:24:49 <fowl> Chaos should be the goal tho 20:25:17 <rdococ> hmm... 20:30:29 <zzo38> shachaf: The Nintendo Entertainment System is a system which is very similar to Famicom (most programs for one will work also on the other with an adapter) 20:31:17 <pikhq> It's somewhat more easy to run NES games on a Famicom than vice versa. 20:32:17 <pikhq> The most notable likely issue is that some NES games will not read any controllers on the expansion port. 20:34:31 -!- mihow has joined. 20:39:48 <oren> wait, what if the negadollar was a cryptographically irrepudiatable? 20:41:11 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:41:12 <HackEgo> unicode/Unicode is a mess invented in 1988 by Xerox, Microsoft, the Spanish Inquisition, and the evil Human Supremacy Corporation, in order to make it easier for the government to spy on Chinese people. 20:41:28 <oren> e.g. it would be possible, using public information, to prove exactly how many negadollars someone has 20:41:34 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/unicode 20:41:36 <HackEgo> zzo38 20:41:38 <shachaf> whoa 20:41:42 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:41:44 <HackEgo> pdf/PDF stands for Pretty Depressing Format. 20:42:46 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:42:49 <HackEgo> ​`/` is the prefix to greatness. 20:42:56 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:42:57 <HackEgo> glumgot/glumgot is not a particularly bad swear word, but is still disquieting. 20:43:31 <oren> thus, when I pay you, I can do so by transferring a negadollar from yourself to me; such that there is a public record that you have N less negadollars and I have N more 20:45:16 <shachaf> pikhq: You're moving from Indiana or someplace like that? 20:45:40 <pikhq> Missouri. 20:46:08 <pikhq> So, no but close. 20:46:25 <shachaf> close enough 20:46:28 <oren> To encourage trade, the public record would increase by a continuously compounded say 2% per year 20:46:38 <pikhq> It's definitely a cross-country move. 20:46:43 <pikhq> And I'm not packed yet? 20:49:18 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:50:11 <oren> (this is similar to the inflation of normal currencies, but it is more obvious) 20:50:23 <fowl> Hey I'm in misery, can you take me with you? 20:51:58 -!- lleu has joined. 20:57:06 <rdococ> hmm 20:58:01 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 20:58:07 <hppavilion1> Hello 20:58:43 <hppavilion1> `wisdome 20:58:44 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdome: not found 20:58:48 <hppavilion1> `wisdom 20:58:49 <HackEgo> doesthiswork/no 20:59:00 <hppavilion1> `? hppavilion1 20:59:01 <HackEgo> higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed 20:59:09 <hppavilion1> `? wisdom 20:59:09 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 20:59:21 <hppavilion1> `? ø 20:59:22 <HackEgo> ​ø is not going anywhere. 21:00:21 <J_Arcane> http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/39wvrm/hodor_esolang_as_a_rust_macro/ 21:01:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43229&oldid=43217 * 139.55.4.74 * (+14) Added Damarok 21:02:32 <rdococ> it just makes more moral sense if you use negative currency & as opposed to positive currency £ and $ and euro and stuff... having &3 means "you owe $3 to the world, until you can reach financial enlightenment." but having $3 means "the world owes you $3...? wait.. what?" 21:03:33 <hppavilion1> Um 21:03:35 <hppavilion1> OK 21:03:44 <hppavilion1> I was the one who added Damarok, BTW 21:05:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Darmok]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43230 * Hppavilion1 * (+128) /* Well SORRY */ new section 21:06:46 <tswett> rdococ: I think theoretically, US dollars are a zero currency. 21:07:00 <tswett> It's impossible for anyone to actually own a US dollar. Therefore, the total number of US dollars in the world is zero. 21:07:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Darmok]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43231&oldid=43230 * Hppavilion1 * (+271) /* Well SORRY */ 21:07:19 <zzo38> How is that? 21:07:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Darmok]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43232&oldid=43231 * Hppavilion1 * (+13) 21:07:36 <tswett> If I have a dollar bill, that doesn't mean I own a dollar. It means that the Fed owes me a dollar. The dollar bill is worth $1 to me, and -$1 to the Fed. 21:07:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Darmok]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43233&oldid=43232 * Hppavilion1 * (-14) 21:07:52 <tswett> Likewise, if I have a dollar in my bank account, that doesn't mean I own a dollar; it means the bank owes me a dollar. 21:07:58 <zzo38> OK 21:09:04 <zzo38> I think it has even been suggested that <BAL|FSV> = 0 can suggest this (when applied globally), although I have not thought of it that way 21:09:18 <shachaf> What is <BAL|FSV>? 21:09:45 <tswett> The product of <BAL| and |FSB>, hth? 21:09:57 -!- hilquias has joined. 21:10:10 <zzo38> The |FSV> is a financial state vector, which can vary, but must always remain orthogonal to <BAL| which is fixed 21:10:12 <shachaf> Presumably it's the inner product of BAL and FSV or something. 21:10:26 <b_jonas> and what's <BAL| ? 21:10:59 <rdococ> "Likewise, if I have a dollar in my bank account, that doesn't mean I own a dollar; it means the bank owes me a dollar." so why can't the bank just hold a negadollar? 21:11:41 <zzo38> It is short for "balance" and normally you might set the components for each account to 1 and others to 0 if using that basis state; but you could use other basis vectors instead if it helps, all that it is is that |FSV> is required to remain orthogonal to it. 21:11:55 <zzo38> b_jonas: That's what it is. 21:11:59 <b_jonas> what if money is locally conserved everywhere, but you can't define a globally sum of money invariant, sort of like energy in global relativity? 21:12:39 <zzo38> rdococ: Can't the bank already potentially store negative amounts in an account? 21:12:44 <b_jonas> as in, money isn't created or destroyed locally anywhere, but you can't just say that the totaly some of money is conserved in any meaningful sense 21:12:47 <zzo38> (If you are in debt) 21:13:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: sure it can, though that might be Bad for you 21:13:42 <zzo38> Yes, I know, you are in debt 21:14:57 <shachaf> Do you remember the Infocom game _Bureaucracy_? 21:15:02 <zzo38> I don't know whether or not you can define a globally sum of money invariant; I am not the government (and perhaps even the government doesn't know?) 21:17:34 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:17:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Darmok]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43234&oldid=43220 * Hppavilion1 * (+712) Added some code 21:17:57 -!- tromp_ has joined. 21:18:23 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:18:54 <rdococ> but negative currency is more moral: if you have no $$$, nothing to sell and stuff, you can't start in life... but if you have no &&& in negative world, nothing to sell and stuff, you can start in life by buying stuff, and pay the world back later. 21:20:06 <hppavilion1> I have no clue what's going on 21:20:15 <zzo38> Note that |FSV> here is a vector of a projective space, it seems to me! 21:20:16 <b_jonas> me neither 21:21:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Darmok]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43235&oldid=43234 * Hppavilion1 * (+4) Added extension 21:21:38 <hppavilion1> Anyone want to help me figure out Darmok? 21:22:23 -!- tromp_ has joined. 21:23:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Darmok]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43236&oldid=43235 * Hppavilion1 * (+49) Changed code 21:24:33 <zzo38> hppavilion1: I don't know much right now, but I can see a few thing from what you have written 21:24:44 <hppavilion1> Yay 21:24:50 <hppavilion1> I made a barely-decent page 21:25:13 <zzo38> It is still hardly good enough yet, just one example that explain a few thing about it 21:25:29 <hppavilion1> Yup 21:25:42 <hppavilion1> I only recently started it 21:25:49 <hppavilion1> I'm making it incrementally instead of all at once 21:26:49 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 21:26:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Darmok]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43237&oldid=43236 * Hppavilion1 * (+122) Opened the language to public modification 21:27:49 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:28:00 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 21:28:27 <rdococ> but wont the metaphors and mythologies themselves require verbs or verb like constructions? 21:28:39 <hppavilion1> Yes 21:28:46 <hppavilion1> When did I say they wouldn't? 21:29:24 <hppavilion1> Oh 21:29:57 <hppavilion1> The Metaphors and Mythologies can be defined in Darmok or another language 21:30:07 <hppavilion1> It's not a particuarly well-defined language 21:30:27 <hppavilion1> Ones defined in Darmok pretty much need to use ones defined in Non-Darmok 21:30:49 <hppavilion1> s/well-define/well-made 21:31:23 <rdococ> hmm... 21:31:28 <rdococ> but what if they didnt...? 21:31:32 <hppavilion1> How? 21:31:49 <rdococ> if we use a modification of English where verbs are not allowed... 21:32:00 <rdococ> can we come up with a sentence? 21:32:08 <hppavilion1> No. 21:32:11 <hppavilion1> We can't 21:32:18 <hppavilion1> Sentences need verbs 21:32:41 <hppavilion1> Barring one-word sentences like "No," which don't even completely count as sentences 21:32:57 <rdococ> hmm... 21:33:19 <rdococ> I'm pretty sure stuff affirming stuff like "you are wrong." don't have verbs per-say, but other verb-like constructions...? 21:33:31 <hppavilion1> "Are" is a verb 21:33:39 <rdococ> oh.. okay... 21:33:41 <rdococ> well... 21:34:01 <hppavilion1> I'm pretty much certain some parts of darmok will need to be defined in another language 21:34:24 <hppavilion1> If it's written in python, for example, it will run a lexer on the line and pattern-match it 21:34:27 <rdococ> just use adjectives...? 21:34:35 <b_jonas> rdococ: see also http://scifi.stackexchange.com/q/13451/4918 21:34:42 <hppavilion1> The first pattern that matches corresponds to a python function 21:34:45 <hppavilion1> Which is then called 21:34:46 <rdococ> "loser you winner me" means "I get stuff from you!" or "you give stuff to me" 21:34:59 <hppavilion1> Oh 21:35:05 <hppavilion1> Aren't get and give verbs? 21:35:06 <rdococ> of course it's not an actual sentence per say, but it'll work 21:35:22 <rdococ> "loser you winner me" doesn't have any verbs in it. 21:36:08 <rdococ> like I could turn "you are wrong" into "wrong you" 21:36:12 <rdococ> and tada, no verbs. 21:36:19 <hppavilion1> Hmmm... 21:36:21 <hppavilion1> Good idea 21:36:32 <hppavilion1> We'll need to define a set of primitive 21:36:33 <hppavilion1> s 21:37:12 <rdococ> "victim fred, thief samuel" for example 21:37:16 <hppavilion1> And these primitives will be used to define the official code you're allowed to use 21:38:24 <hppavilion1> So how would we define print in the TheBible/Jesus library? 21:38:32 <rdococ> hmm 21:38:45 <hppavilion1> Probably writing to stdio 21:38:48 <hppavilion1> Like a fie 21:38:50 <hppavilion1> *file 21:39:40 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:39:50 <hppavilion1> Now I'm stuck thinking about another language I'm designing 21:39:50 <rdococ> hmm 21:39:52 <hppavilion1> Even cooler 21:41:03 <rdococ> "loud 'Hello World!'" describing the string 'Hello World!' as loud... 21:41:10 <hppavilion1> Hm 21:41:13 <hppavilion1> That works 21:41:27 <hppavilion1> This other language is called PFIL 21:41:38 <hppavilion1> It's the Purely Functional Imperative Language 21:41:55 <rdococ> hmm.. sounds interesting...wait... what...? this is... 21:42:02 <hppavilion1> It'd be a huge pain in the ass to implement 21:42:06 <hppavilion1> But it'd be AMAZING to use 21:42:09 <rdococ> "functional imperative"???? 21:42:14 <b_jonas> what the heck? 21:42:23 <hppavilion1> Not functional in the declararve sense 21:42:27 <hppavilion1> It's a WIP name 21:42:36 <hppavilion1> So it's not perfectly accurate 21:42:38 <rdococ> oh... what paradigm would it be in? 21:42:44 <hppavilion1> Imperative 21:42:49 <b_jonas> so the oath of Feanor wasn't public knowledge in middle-earth, and Galadriel could just choose to not tell about it to Melian and think she won't easily learn about it? 21:42:50 <hppavilion1> But EVERYTHING is a function 21:42:59 <hppavilion1> And that includes things like If statements and operators 21:43:03 <b_jonas> that's new to me. I should read the Silmarillon very carefully. 21:43:09 <b_jonas> because there's a lot I don't understand 21:43:11 <rdococ> thats just like my Table programming language though where everything is a table... 21:43:19 <b_jonas> how can something like that _not_ be public knowledge? 21:43:25 <rdococ> but Table, I think, if I remember correctly, was declarative 21:43:49 <hppavilion1> It was 21:44:03 <rdococ> yeah.. and I don't think it was turing complete 21:44:39 <hppavilion1> Well PFIL allows really weird stuff 21:45:06 <rdococ> show us... we're dieing to know 21:45:16 <oren> well I got the offer 21:45:40 <hppavilion1> For example 21:45:46 <hppavilion1> Here's the library that defines... 21:45:49 <hppavilion1> Comparison operators 21:45:51 <hppavilion1> Yeah. 21:45:52 <hppavilion1> https://github.com/TheGloriousRepublic/Purely-Functional-Imperative-Language/blob/master/doc/Lib/comp.pfil 21:46:18 <hppavilion1> It's seriously WIP 21:46:32 <hppavilion1> So it'd be impossible to implement a language that's accept that library as-is 21:47:00 <rdococ> defining comparison operators... ha...! I could do that in haskell... 21:47:11 <hppavilion1> I know 21:47:17 <hppavilion1> I could too 21:47:25 <hppavilion1> Except this is an imperative language 21:47:42 <rdococ> wait ...? 21:47:56 <hppavilion1> What? 21:47:59 <rdococ> they look like they're all circularly defined to me - not that that's a problem of course 21:48:08 <hppavilion1> Huh? 21:48:23 <hppavilion1> Some of the comparison operators had to be primitives for it to work, keep in mind 21:48:27 <rdococ> oh ok... 21:48:33 <hppavilion1> Unless there's a way I could do it without 21:48:39 <rdococ> well 21:48:41 <hppavilion1> In which case feel free to make a pull request 21:48:47 <rdococ> sorta maybe possibly but idk the language 21:49:01 <hppavilion1> Oh 21:49:01 <hppavilion1> Also 21:49:10 <hppavilion1> You can define the equivalent of complex statements 21:49:20 <hppavilion1> You can define for-loops and stuff 21:49:28 <rdococ> ik... 21:49:32 <hppavilion1> OK 21:49:34 <hppavilion1> Good 21:49:37 <rdococ> hmm... 21:49:39 <hppavilion1> Just pointing out 21:49:51 <rdococ> how are numbers defined...? are they primitive too...? 21:49:54 <hppavilion1> It's something no other language I've ever used allowed 21:49:58 <hppavilion1> I suppose so 21:50:05 <hppavilion1> Everything is technically a clss 21:50:07 <hppavilion1> *class 21:50:10 <rdococ> ha... 21:50:24 <hppavilion1> I just say functions because it's more accurate 21:50:25 <rdococ> numbers dont have to be primitive if youre willing to fudge around a little 21:50:36 <hppavilion1> Really? 21:50:39 <hppavilion1> Cool 21:50:40 <rdococ> yeah 21:50:55 <hppavilion1> This language is going to be a huge pain to implement if anyone ever decides to 21:51:04 <hppavilion1> It'll probably be done by PhD's if it ever is 21:51:11 <rdococ> in Haskell, you could define data Number = Zero | Succ number... 21:51:17 <hppavilion1> Oh right 21:51:21 <hppavilion1> Successor function 21:51:24 <rdococ> yes 21:51:32 <hppavilion1> :) 21:51:39 <hppavilion1> That isn't even fudging around 21:51:46 <rdococ> so 1 = succ(zero), 2 = succ(succ(zero)) 21:51:49 <rdococ> and so on 21:51:51 <hppavilion1> Yep 21:52:29 <hppavilion1> Awesome 21:52:34 <rdococ> and assuming you can do stuff like x.deccessor or decc(x) or something 21:52:39 <rdococ> you can do addition 21:52:41 <hppavilion1> Yes 21:52:48 <hppavilion1> Thanks! 21:53:10 <hppavilion1> If you were to make a library for this and pull request it that'd be AMAZING 21:53:18 <rdococ> function add(x, succ(y)) { return succ(add(x, y)) } 21:53:26 <hppavilion1> Yep 21:53:32 <hppavilion1> And then alias + with add 21:53:52 <hppavilion1> I would use ++ though instead of succ 21:54:01 <rdococ> true... 21:54:26 <rdococ> I wonder... you said they were technically classes...? 21:54:33 <hppavilion1> Yes 21:54:35 <hppavilion1> Like python 21:54:37 <hppavilion1> I think 21:54:55 <hppavilion1> A number would be an instance of the number class. Metaphorically speaking 21:55:12 <rdococ> right ...? 21:55:18 <hppavilion1> Yes 21:55:21 <hppavilion1> right 21:56:03 <rdococ> also, may I ask, is the if conditional a primitive? 21:56:09 <hppavilion1> Yes 21:56:22 <rdococ> you can forgo that too by modifying the boolean library 21:56:26 <hppavilion1> But if/*elif/else is (probably) not 21:56:28 <hppavilion1> Really? 21:56:31 <hppavilion1> AWESOME 21:56:33 <rdococ> like Table was basically based on 21:56:48 <hppavilion1> I want this language to be as library-defined as possible 21:57:02 <hppavilion1> With as few builtins as I can muster 21:57:05 <rdococ> true.ifTrue(doStuff) would doStuff, false.ifTrue(doStuff) wouldn't... 21:57:14 <hppavilion1> Basically legible brainfuck 21:57:21 <hppavilion1> OK 21:57:43 <hppavilion1> ifTrue(True){dostuff();} 21:57:44 <rdococ> so add the ifTrue functions to the boolean objects themselves, true.ifTrue would do whatever you give it, and false.ifTrue would be a NOP 21:58:01 <hppavilion1> I don't quite understand 21:58:04 <hppavilion1> OH 21:58:07 <hppavilion1> I think I get it 21:58:11 <hppavilion1> Kind of 21:58:46 <hppavilion1> I've never seen that syntax before 21:58:54 <rdococ> well, you know objects have properties and methods, like account.desposit(123)? 21:58:59 <hppavilion1> Yes 21:59:34 <rdococ> false.ifTrue({ stuff }) is basically an object, false, with the method, ifTrue 21:59:50 <hppavilion1> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH 21:59:53 <hppavilion1> That's awesome 21:59:58 <hppavilion1> That is truely awesome 22:00:01 * hppavilion1 claps 22:00:03 <rdococ> hmm... 22:00:14 <rdococ> so what would false() return anyway? 22:00:22 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:00:26 <hppavilion1> False is a builtin I think 22:00:42 <rdococ> True() and False() are builtins? srsly? 22:01:01 <hppavilion1> Well when I wrote it they were 22:01:04 <hppavilion1> They don't have to be 22:01:16 <rdococ> well... you see... 22:01:20 <hppavilion1> I was just going on the thought that they had to be 22:01:26 <rdococ> well... 22:01:34 <hppavilion1> Because they are in my favourite language 22:01:34 <rdococ> hmm... 22:01:37 <hppavilion1> Python 22:01:42 <rdococ> umm... 22:01:44 <rdococ> Hmm... 22:02:03 <rdococ> are there any objects with properties and methods? or is it literally all just functions? 22:02:26 <hppavilion1> Well the functions are technically callable objects 22:02:29 <hppavilion1> Like in Python 22:02:37 <hppavilion1> I'm building off of all the best languages I know of 22:02:53 <hppavilion1> Haskell, Python, the two good things in Javascript, etc. 22:03:13 <hppavilion1> Some C 22:03:22 <rdococ> do the objects have properties...? 22:03:31 <zzo38> Did you consider Forth and Lisp? 22:03:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:03:41 <rdococ> like, how an account has a balance? or a person has an age? 22:03:45 <zzo38> And also SQL? 22:03:46 <hppavilion1> I don't know Forth and I barely know lisp 22:03:54 <hppavilion1> Yes 22:04:03 <hppavilion1> Objects have properties and methods 22:04:19 <rdococ> or... you could do this! true(doStuff) directly instead of invoking a property of true 22:04:34 <rdococ> so true could be an identity/call function and false would be a NOP 22:04:36 <zzo38> Do you know any SQL though? 22:04:44 <hppavilion1> I don't really 22:05:01 <hppavilion1> Maybe there'll be a SQL library for it 22:05:08 <rdococ> function true(stuff) { return stuff() }; function false(stuff) { return }; 22:05:10 <hppavilion1> I've written a little, but I barely understand it 22:05:19 <hppavilion1> Keep in mind I use javascript function notation 22:05:37 <rdococ> ik... I'm using pseudo code at the moment. should I fork the project? 22:05:40 <hppavilion1> OK 22:06:07 <zzo38> In JavaScript you can also make anonymous functions too, and overridable prototypes and generator functions and others 22:06:11 <hppavilion1> So then call foo if x is greater than five you would do "x>5(foo);" ? 22:06:15 <hppavilion1> I know you can do that 22:06:24 <hppavilion1> But I like the function expression 22:06:39 <rdococ> you can use aliases 22:06:46 <hppavilion1> Oh right 22:06:55 <rdococ> if(true, stuff) = alias(true(stuff)) 22:07:09 <hppavilion1> That's kind of right 22:07:11 <zzo38> I think the syntax in JavaScript is too long though, and suggested stuff like @(x)(x) for the identity function 22:08:01 <hppavilion1> Hm... 22:08:42 <hppavilion1> Wait, was that a suggestion you made regarding JS or was that a suggestion for me? 22:08:53 <zzo38> About JavaScript 22:09:05 <hppavilion1> Ah 22:09:50 <hppavilion1> I'm trying to figure out what the syntax should be for denoting blocks of code to be used within functions 22:10:02 <rdococ> hm... 22:10:15 <rdococ> I'm trying to figure out how alias stuff works. 22:10:18 <hppavilion1> It can't be x = function(vars){code} because the {code} block would be interpreted as the definition 22:10:24 <hppavilion1> I am too :P 22:10:42 <zzo38> I do not quite understand what you are trying to do now? 22:10:57 <zzo38> What did you mea nabout "denoting blocks of code to be used within functions"? 22:10:58 <hppavilion1> What don't you understand? 22:11:01 <hppavilion1> Oh 22:11:13 <hppavilion1> PFIL allows you to define functions with code as an argument 22:11:32 <hppavilion1> SO a for loop could be defined in a library using while loops and incrementation, for example 22:11:42 <rdococ> dont merge yet btw 22:11:46 <b_jonas> hppavilion1: like smalltalk or ruby? 22:11:50 <zzo38> O, well, I would still just make the contents of the loop body also as a function 22:12:25 <hppavilion1> Do ruby and smalltalk allow that? 22:12:41 <zzo38> Or else, use macros instead. 22:13:05 <rdococ> alias function ... 22:13:20 <b_jonas> hppavilion1: yes, that's a basic feature of smalltalk, and ruby has inherited it, though only with up to one block argument per call 22:13:22 <hppavilion1> What about it? 22:13:33 <hppavilion1> Oh 22:14:08 <hppavilion1> Kewlzez 22:14:22 <hppavilion1> How does ruby implement it? 22:14:32 <b_jonas> I don't know how it implements it 22:14:39 <b_jonas> that's… an implementation detail 22:14:42 <b_jonas> I don't much care 22:16:58 <hppavilion1> OK 22:17:05 <hppavilion1> It looks like you use an ampersand 22:17:20 <b_jonas> I know the _syntax_ in ruby. Or at least most of it. Are you asking about that? 22:17:31 <hppavilion1> I figured it out 22:17:35 <hppavilion1> But thanks 22:17:44 <b_jonas> it's complicated, there's like ten syntax elements related to it 22:17:58 <b_jonas> so if you want me to explain most of it, you can ask 22:17:58 <hppavilion1> Well I'll just use the ampersand 22:18:06 <b_jonas> I can't help with smalltalk though 22:18:06 <hppavilion1> Is rd still here? 22:18:10 <rdococ> the true and false method stuff I talked about is implemented into Smalltalk, but I think it bypasses that logic code straight to the compiler 22:18:11 <hppavilion1> I got it 22:18:32 <b_jonas> rdococ: sure, it makes sense to optimize booleans 22:18:32 <hppavilion1> Ah 22:19:07 <b_jonas> conditionals occur a lot, so doing an extra function call for each of them could be bad 22:19:18 <b_jonas> in a practical interpreter that is 22:19:55 <rdococ> true 22:20:00 <rdococ> thats what they did 22:20:12 <rdococ> but the method stuff is still in Smalltalk source code anyway 22:20:20 <rdococ> interesting feature 22:20:33 <hppavilion1> So the operators that can be used in function arguments are *(splat), **(double splat), & (code block), and maybe others 22:20:34 <b_jonas> sure, useful for lots of other functions, such as for iterating over some containers 22:21:31 <b_jonas> some details of smalltalk and ruby seem really esoteric to me actually 22:21:39 <b_jonas> probably only because I'm not used to them 22:21:52 <b_jonas> they might be natural for someone who's grown up on those languages 22:23:48 <hppavilion1> The order than you can put arguments into a function is foo(requiredargs..., optionalargs..., *listargs, **kwargs, &blockargs) 22:25:06 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:25:34 -!- mihow has joined. 22:25:35 <rdococ> my method of implementing gt requires equality... shoud that be primitive ...? 22:25:51 <hppavilion1> Maybe 22:25:54 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 22:26:02 <hppavilion1> Do it with as few primitives as possible 22:26:03 <rdococ> equality seems more primitive than gt or lt... 22:26:14 <hppavilion1> I think I just made a travelling salesman problem for you 22:26:15 <hppavilion1> :P 22:26:18 <hppavilion1> It does 22:26:20 <hppavilion1> Do it that way 22:28:25 <hppavilion1> Are you making a pull request then? 22:28:29 -!- FireFly has quit (Changing host). 22:28:29 -!- FireFly has joined. 22:30:56 <rdococ> not yet... 22:31:06 <rdococ> it has to be logically consistent 22:31:15 <hppavilion1> I mean are you working on something that you'll pull request to me 22:31:16 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:31:30 <rdococ> yes 22:31:31 <hppavilion1> That's probably the worst way I could've phrased that :P 22:31:32 <hppavilion1> OK 22:31:36 <hppavilion1> Awesome :) 22:32:33 <rdococ> god damn it... my internet glitched and now I have to remake the changes I made in comp.pfil... 22:32:41 <hppavilion1> :( 22:32:57 <hppavilion1> Wait, how did an internet glitch do that? 22:33:01 <hppavilion1> Oh 22:33:07 <hppavilion1> You edited the file on GitHub 22:35:47 <rdococ> but there werent many so 22:36:00 <hppavilion1> Great 22:36:35 <rdococ> ok I've made some changes. I'll keep making changes until I can remove another primitive... 22:36:40 <hppavilion1> OK 22:37:04 <hppavilion1> You can push what you've done for now if it's consistent 22:37:17 <rdococ> hmm... 22:37:21 <hppavilion1> And I'll just accept it and you can add the next bout right after I do it 22:37:35 <hppavilion1> I mostly just want to feel the march of progress :P 22:37:37 <rdococ> ok... let me check through to make sure 22:37:44 <hppavilion1> OK 22:37:45 <hppavilion1> Great 22:39:56 <rdococ> okay... you can check it too... tell me about anything youre unsure of 22:40:51 <hppavilion1> Did you push it? 22:41:16 <hppavilion1> I'm not getting anything 22:41:22 <hppavilion1> Let me refresh a few more times 22:42:01 <rdococ> okay... did it 22:42:10 <hppavilion1> Great 22:43:21 <rdococ> ignore the silly commit comment stuff... had to change addition and subtraction but it's fine now 22:44:55 <hppavilion1> Dammit 22:45:09 <hppavilion1> I edited some stuff before I sent you the link to the repo 22:45:16 <hppavilion1> But I forgot to commit it 22:45:20 <hppavilion1> Now I have a merge conflig 22:45:22 <hppavilion1> -.- 22:45:32 <hppavilion1> *conflict 22:45:41 <rdococ> oops 22:46:57 <rdococ> I'm just thinking, imagine if there was a way to substitute the function() and return() primitives for something that isn't... also, about set()... 22:47:07 <hppavilion1> Yes? 22:47:19 <rdococ> well... nvm... 22:47:21 <rdococ> hmm... 22:48:01 <rdococ> function return(function, parameters, returnValue) { function(parameters) = returnValue } 22:48:10 <rdococ> if that even makes sense 22:48:15 <hppavilion1> I don't get it 22:48:28 <hppavilion1> Oh 22:48:28 <hppavilion1> Wait 22:48:34 <hppavilion1> You were defining return 22:48:37 <hppavilion1> Let me look 22:49:06 <rdococ> if you get it... I'm setting the function value to stuff... 22:49:15 <hppavilion1> OK 22:49:21 <hppavilion1> I'm trying to fix this merge conflig 22:49:24 <hppavilion1> *conflit 22:49:26 <hppavilion1> *conflict 22:49:31 <rdococ> k... 22:49:41 <rdococ> what did you change btw? 22:49:46 <hppavilion1> I don't know 22:49:53 <hppavilion1> The conflict is in comp.pfil 22:49:57 <hppavilion1> I changed it a while ago 22:50:03 <hppavilion1> So the commit doesn't even tell you 22:50:11 <hppavilion1> Because I didn't know when I wrote it xD 22:52:00 <hppavilion1> Dammit 22:52:06 <hppavilion1> I need to debug the state of the repo 22:55:51 <hppavilion1> OK 22:55:53 <hppavilion1> Fixed it 22:56:00 <hppavilion1> But I think I lost some progress on the docs 22:56:02 <hppavilion1> :,( 22:56:03 <hppavilion1> Wait 22:56:06 <hppavilion1> I have a backup! 22:56:07 <hppavilion1> Right! 22:56:10 <hppavilion1> I am amazing! 22:56:11 <hppavilion1> :P 22:57:11 <hppavilion1> All is well in the world of programming 22:58:36 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:58:47 <oren> *Din* *Din* 7 o clock and all's well 22:58:55 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 22:58:59 <hppavilion1> So 22:59:12 <hppavilion1> (Just refreshed the page, hopefully didn't miss anything) 22:59:13 <hppavilion1> AFK 22:59:16 <hppavilion1> Wait 22:59:22 <hppavilion1> Does /afk do anything? 22:59:29 <hppavilion1> Nope 22:59:30 <hppavilion1> Well 22:59:31 <hppavilion1> AFK 22:59:35 <oren> I don;t think so 23:00:34 <oren> Also you can read the logs for stuff you missed, unless you're like me and just keep Irssi running for weeks 23:01:04 <oren> then you can simply scroll up 23:01:47 <hppavilion1> I'm an IRC noob and am using WebChat 23:02:16 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:02:20 <oren> I started Irssi on June 1 and haven't signed off since 23:02:21 <rdococ> I'm going to fork it again... 23:02:28 -!- HackEgo has joined. 23:02:41 <zzo38> I don't know what does on the WebChat; I use my own IRC client because I don't like the others 23:03:19 <zzo38> Some webpages don't even link to the actual IRC and only to a webpage to chat on IRC; sometimes I have to view the source to figure out the proper address to connect to with my own IRC client. 23:03:55 -!- zemhill__ has joined. 23:04:01 -!- KitB has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:04:03 -!- zemhill_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:04:50 <hppavilion1> `cls 23:04:54 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cls: not found 23:05:02 <hppavilion1> There we go 23:05:05 <hppavilion1> ./clear is nice 23:06:08 -!- KitB has joined. 23:06:57 <hppavilion1> Hellu 23:08:27 <rdococ> how could I implement function() so its not a primitive? 23:09:23 <b_jonas> rdococ: with templates 23:09:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:09:43 <hppavilion1> I doubt that's possible 23:09:54 <hppavilion1> I mean, without many other primitives 23:10:37 <hppavilion1> I'm considering implementing table 23:10:44 <nys> first class macros? 23:10:57 -!- hppavilion1 has changed nick to YOURMUM. 23:11:23 -!- augur has joined. 23:11:39 <YOURMUM> Hellu 23:11:53 -!- YOURMUM has changed nick to hppavilion1. 23:16:34 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:17:57 <rdococ> well I've been able to implement return() 23:18:02 <hppavilion1> Yay 23:18:18 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:18:29 -!- HackEgo has joined. 23:19:23 <rdococ> ugh but its messed up 23:19:43 <rdococ> the return() stuff looks like a forked version of my unmerged code stuff and stuff 23:19:53 <rdococ> how do I delete my fork? 23:20:19 <hppavilion1> I think you go to the settings 23:20:23 <hppavilion1> And find the Danger Zone 23:20:46 <hppavilion1> And delete repo 23:22:24 <hppavilion1> You know 23:22:31 <hppavilion1> I think table could actually be useful for something 23:23:00 <hppavilion1> It's a language so esoteric it stops being just for fun and becomes a fully legit, useful lang 23:24:12 -!- KitB has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:25:14 <rdococ> true... 23:25:29 <rdococ> its so esoteric, it's not esoteric anymore... 23:25:34 -!- KitB has joined. 23:25:35 <hppavilion1> Yep 23:25:44 -!- skarn has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:25:47 <rdococ> but thats still cool and esoteric... 23:25:51 <hppavilion1> I wrote a lexer for it 23:25:58 <rdococ> cool... 23:25:59 <hppavilion1> It's two lines of code :P 23:26:05 <rdococ> cooler 23:26:06 <hppavilion1> Well, 3 I guess 23:26:09 <hppavilion1> Including the import 23:26:31 <hppavilion1> from ast import literal_eval def lex(script): return literal_eval('{'+script.replace('[', '{').replace(']', '}')) 23:26:44 -!- lleu has joined. 23:29:54 <rdococ> but I dont think table is turing complete 23:30:14 <hppavilion1> OK 23:30:16 <hppavilion1> I fixed the parser 23:30:18 <rdococ> assuming lazy evaluation, table is at best, a finite state automaton... unless someone can disprove that... 23:30:33 <hppavilion1> I'll make it turing complete with modification to the standard 23:30:43 <rdococ> make Table turing complete? 23:30:44 <hppavilion1> Or I'll leave it as is 23:30:48 <hppavilion1> If possible 23:30:51 <rdococ> wait what how? 23:30:54 <hppavilion1> IDK 23:30:58 <hppavilion1> But I will do it 23:31:02 <hppavilion1> Unless I can't 23:31:08 <hppavilion1> I fixed up the lexer 23:31:12 <hppavilion1> It's buggy, but it works 23:31:12 -!- KitB has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."). 23:31:15 <rdococ> everything is possible 23:31:25 <hppavilion1> Ture 23:31:26 <hppavilion1> *True 23:31:36 <hppavilion1> Especially if you're turing complete xD 23:31:40 <rdococ> hahahaha 23:31:53 <rdococ> well, except for solving the halting problem 23:31:59 <hppavilion1> Yeah... 23:32:04 <rdococ> (which I think I can...) 23:32:08 <hppavilion1> Anything possible is possible if you're turing complete 23:32:14 <rdococ> lol 23:32:16 <hppavilion1> Which seems tautological, but isn't 23:32:40 <hppavilion1> >>> lex("{'walrus': {'man': 'person'}}") returns {'walrus': {'man': 'person'}} 23:32:43 -!- skarn has joined. 23:32:43 <hppavilion1> So I think it works 23:33:12 <hppavilion1> Wait 23:33:14 <hppavilion1> I have a problem 23:33:15 <hppavilion1> I think 23:33:24 <rdococ> you know... I think I could solve the halting problem... convert the program into pseudo code and use some kind of machine to tell whether there are loops and stuff or not 23:33:47 <hppavilion1> Shitshitshitshitshitshitshit 23:33:50 <rdococ> while (true) { do stuff } obviously doesnt halt 23:33:58 <rdococ> but null program does 23:34:00 <zzo38> It won't always work though, but you can sometimes figure out that it doesn't halt 23:34:07 <hppavilion1> YEah 23:34:15 <hppavilion1> So I have a problem 23:34:21 <rdococ> true 23:34:31 <rdococ> it works for some programs 23:34:43 <hppavilion1> So naturally, I'm going to suggest a change for table instead of fixing it in my program :P 23:34:57 <rdococ> hmm? 23:35:45 <hppavilion1> Instead of just a raw library name being used for import (which makes it not technically a table), make it do somthing like map "libraries" to a list of tables to use 23:35:50 <hppavilion1> Not tables to use 23:35:53 <hppavilion1> Libraries to use 23:36:00 * hppavilion1 facepalms himself 23:36:19 <hppavilion1> Or even better, to make the list of libraries a table too 23:36:29 <hppavilion1> Make it a map mapping library names to booleans 23:36:34 <hppavilion1> And if they're true importing htem 23:36:42 <hppavilion1> And if they're false ignoring them 23:36:45 <rdococ> you gave me idea 23:37:02 <hppavilion1> Good :) 23:37:08 <hppavilion1> I like doing that 23:39:06 <rdococ> instead of assigning properties to values... 23:39:13 <rdococ> just do sets of flags, like 23:39:20 <hppavilion1> In pfil or in Table? 23:39:42 <rdococ> 3 = [successor of 2, predeccessor of 4, derp, herp] 23:39:53 <rdococ> a Table derivative 23:39:58 <hppavilion1> Aaaaah 23:40:30 <hppavilion1> I don't think my current lexer will work 23:40:36 <hppavilion1> I'll have to write a whole lexer :/ 23:44:38 <hppavilion1> So how does this derivative work? 23:49:16 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:49:45 <rdococ> maybe... 23:49:49 <rdococ> 0 = 0 23:49:52 <rdococ> 1 = 0++ 23:49:54 <rdococ> 2 = 1++ 23:49:55 <rdococ> etc 23:50:09 <rdococ> x++-- = x 23:51:22 <rdococ> I had an idea just like pfil once 23:51:28 <rdococ> where everything could be a function 23:52:08 <hppavilion1> I just rewrote the lexer 23:52:19 <hppavilion1> Mostly 23:52:23 <hppavilion1> I just need to actually map stuff 23:55:09 <hppavilion1> Done! 23:56:27 <hppavilion1> Can I write an arithmetic library for Table and add it to the esolangs page? 2015-06-20: 00:01:21 <hppavilion1> ? 00:02:05 <zzo38> I expect it should be OK to do so 00:02:30 <hppavilion1> OK... 00:04:59 <hppavilion1> How do I denote else in Table? 00:05:06 <hppavilion1> I'll just use Else, I guess 00:07:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Table]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43238&oldid=43044 * Hppavilion1 * (+111) Added arithmetic library 00:07:46 <hppavilion1> I didn't need else 00:07:50 <hppavilion1> :P 00:08:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Table]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43239&oldid=43238 * Hppavilion1 * (-1) Fixed comment 00:11:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Table]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43240&oldid=43239 * Hppavilion1 * (+70) Fixed addition to use predecessor, added multiplication 00:13:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Table]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43241&oldid=43240 * Hppavilion1 * (+109) 00:15:05 <rdococ> well, kinda works 00:15:29 <hppavilion1> I know :/ 00:15:41 <rdococ> hmm 00:15:47 <hppavilion1> What'd be the proper way to reference the arguments for a function in Table? 00:15:49 <rdococ> I was gonna create something like pfil 00:15:52 <rdococ> well... 00:16:11 <rdococ> there arent any functions in Table, so there are no arguments and that is why it isnt turing complete 00:16:23 <hppavilion1> Oh 00:16:44 <hppavilion1> I thought that the setup in the first table program was functions 00:16:59 <hppavilion1> Like, after defining "and" you could use and in a following function 00:17:29 <rdococ> hmm... 00:17:35 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 00:17:44 <rdococ> I had the idea of making a function version, but itd be a lot like pfil 00:18:15 <hppavilion1> I think that you already have functions in the current one 00:18:22 <hppavilion1> Or could very easily 00:20:03 <hppavilion1> I think Table could become a really useful language 00:20:23 <hppavilion1> I'm tempted to move my interpreter over to The Glorious Republic 00:20:40 <rdococ> true 00:20:53 <hppavilion1> It's esoteric more like Haskell than like Brainfuck 00:21:02 <rdococ> yeah 00:21:18 <rdococ> maybe I could make a derivative and call it Function or Data or something 00:21:27 <hppavilion1> Or T++ 00:21:31 <hppavilion1> Table++ 00:21:34 <rdococ> yeah 00:22:00 <hppavilion1> Do you know python? 00:22:23 <rdococ> not really 00:22:27 <hppavilion1> Oh :/ 00:23:11 <hppavilion1> So should we start on S(Table)? 00:23:15 <hppavilion1> I like that name 00:23:19 <hppavilion1> Successor(Table) 00:23:37 <hppavilion1> Ooh 00:23:41 <hppavilion1> You could call it Peano 00:25:04 <hppavilion1> Yes? No? 00:27:56 <rdococ> haha 00:27:56 <hppavilion1> I like that name 00:28:06 <rdococ> cant we just call it Function? 00:28:20 <hppavilion1> Haskell isn't called Functions 00:28:37 <hppavilion1> And Table is more about Tables than about functions 00:28:58 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:29:21 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 00:30:03 <hppavilion1> And I see whatever we call this Table derivative as an actual, used language 00:30:24 <hppavilion1> And Peano is an AWESOME name 00:31:25 <hppavilion1> AND it sounds like a name for a language people actually use :P 00:31:49 <fowl> Hi 00:31:59 <hppavilion1> Hi! 00:32:14 <hppavilion1> Welcome! 00:34:07 <Wallacoloo> Hellooooo 00:34:24 <hppavilion1> Hi! 00:38:58 <hppavilion1> So 00:45:04 <hppavilion1> So 00:46:51 <rdococ> maybe... 00:47:07 <rdococ> naah 00:47:21 <hppavilion1> :,( 00:47:32 <hppavilion1> But it's such a good name... 00:47:36 <hppavilion1> Oh well 00:47:55 <hppavilion1> What do you suggest? And "Function" is a bad name 00:48:17 <hppavilion1> Too generic 00:49:20 <rdococ> its not the name thats bothering me 00:49:23 <rdococ> its... 00:49:46 <hppavilion1> The fact that Peano had nothing to do with it? 00:49:52 <hppavilion1> Makes sense 00:49:53 <hppavilion1> I agree 00:50:05 <rdococ> no no no 00:50:19 <hppavilion1> Oh 00:50:22 <hppavilion1> Then what is it? 00:51:33 <rdococ> ugh 00:51:34 <rdococ> nothing 00:51:46 <hppavilion1> :/ 00:51:54 <hppavilion1> What should it be called? 00:52:11 <rdococ> pfil 00:52:20 <hppavilion1> But it insn't imperative 00:52:38 <hppavilion1> We're discussing the Table derivative, right? 00:52:54 <rdococ> ugh 00:53:02 <rdococ> I dont want to make it 00:53:10 <rdococ> its too...idk...not unique 00:53:21 <hppavilion1> Oh :/ 00:53:27 <hppavilion1> I'm the one implementing Table 00:53:34 <hppavilion1> And it's pretty awesome 00:53:47 <hppavilion1> Similar to haskell only as far as python is similar to java 00:57:03 <rdococ> ...he...hehe... 00:57:10 <hppavilion1> ? 00:57:21 <rdococ> what about PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC? 00:58:01 <hppavilion1> You already made that one 00:59:57 <rdococ> ik 01:00:02 <rdococ> I want you to take a look at it 01:00:27 <hppavilion1> I particularly like folder 01:01:14 <hppavilion1> You want me to implement PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC? 01:06:12 <hppavilion1> I'm going to take that as a yes 01:07:24 <hppavilion1> Do I have to make it so programs can look like PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC or can I split by spaces? 01:08:13 <rdococ> look at the article 01:08:34 <rdococ> http://esolangs.org/wiki/PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC 01:08:40 <hppavilion1> I read it 01:08:59 <hppavilion1> But do scripts have to be able to look like PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC 01:09:18 <rdococ> you didnt read the article did you 01:09:24 <hppavilion1> I did 01:14:13 <hppavilion1> Can I make a slight modification that stays inline with the language? 01:14:19 <hppavilion1> Variables can only be one letter 01:14:31 <hppavilion1> MOAR obfuscation 01:14:41 <hppavilion1> It doesn't have to be that way 01:14:48 <hppavilion1> But it'd be easier for me to implement 01:16:11 -!- boily has joined. 01:17:20 <rdococ> variables... exist in PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC? 01:17:31 <rdococ> read the article again 01:18:03 <hppavilion1> Oh 01:18:27 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:18:38 <HackEgo> friendship/friendship wisdom 01:18:43 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:18:44 <HackEgo> doodad/Doodads are just duoids in the category of endofunctors. 01:21:06 -!- Herbalist has joined. 01:21:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:22:21 <boily> rdhellococ. helloppavilion1. shellochaf. 01:22:40 <boily> wasn't friendship supposed to be something about singing graphs, la la la ♪? 01:24:22 <rdococ> where is there a channel where I can talk about constructed human language (Esperanto for example) 01:24:44 <boily> there's at least this one hth 01:25:13 <boily> do you conlang? 01:28:42 <rdococ> kinda 01:45:27 <rdococ> δ 01:45:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:46:00 <boily> `? δ 01:46:01 <HackEgo> ​δ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:46:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:46:08 <boily> rdococ: δ? 01:46:09 <rdococ> `? delta 01:46:10 <HackEgo> delta? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:46:15 <rdococ> `? difference 01:46:16 <HackEgo> difference? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:46:22 <rdococ> `? derivative 01:46:23 <HackEgo> derivative? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:46:24 <rdococ> ... 01:46:28 <rdococ> `? slope 01:46:29 <HackEgo> slope? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:46:32 <boily> `? tangent 01:46:33 <HackEgo> tangent? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:46:33 <rdococ> oe m gee 01:46:38 <rdococ> `? sine 01:46:39 <HackEgo> sine? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:46:44 <hppavilion1> Dear god it's a nightmare 01:46:53 <rdococ> δ 01:47:11 <boily> hppavilion1: what is twh? 01:47:35 <hppavilion1> `learn sine sin(e) =0.410781290502908695476009492018360591888306970393415345304571... 01:47:42 <HackEgo> Learned 'sine': sine sin(e) =0.410781290502908695476009492018360591888306970393415345304571... 01:47:50 <hppavilion1> `sine 01:47:50 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sine: not found 01:47:53 <hppavilion1> `? sine 01:47:54 <HackEgo> sine sin(e) =0.410781290502908695476009492018360591888306970393415345304571... 01:49:04 <hppavilion1> YES! 01:49:11 <hppavilion1> I FINISHED MY PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC LEXER! 01:49:48 <boily> ♪ ding ♪ this is a public service announcement. please note that updates to the Wisdom will resume on... Monday... June... Twenty... Two Thousand Fifteen... at the earliest. thanks for your understanding. d'autres messages suivront. 01:51:05 <hppavilion1> IN ONLY 56 LINES OF CODE (I <3 PYTHON!)! 01:51:32 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 01:53:50 <rdococ> ↓→↑ 01:55:12 <boily> hppavilion1: python's quite nice indeed. 01:55:20 <boily> rdococ: you are being unicodish hth. 01:55:50 <rdococ> ? 01:55:53 <rdococ> unicodish? 01:56:12 <hppavilion1> Well there's unicode 01:56:15 <hppavilion1> And you're using it 01:56:21 <hppavilion1> Therefor you are being unicodish 01:56:31 <hppavilion1> I've got the lexer done 01:56:32 <rdococ> captain obvious → me 02:00:39 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:00:44 <rdococ> or, 02:01:11 <rdococ> delta conlang. ∆me = -∆you 02:04:49 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:11:16 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:11:59 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 02:12:06 <hppavilion1> I jsut restarted my browser 02:12:11 <hppavilion1> If you said anything I missed it 02:12:13 <hppavilion1> rdococ 02:16:18 <hppavilion1> Hello? 02:16:35 <rdococ> got tummyache... ow... 02:17:41 <hppavilion1> :,( 02:18:38 <hppavilion1> Is PARI strictly bound to SWITCH VAR CASE VAL GOTO LINE... syntax? 02:18:43 <hppavilion1> Or can you nest switches? 02:18:54 <hppavilion1> (please say no please say no please say no) 02:19:12 <rdococ> no 02:19:39 <hppavilion1> Great 02:20:31 <hppavilion1> And does the program crash if it fails to find an appropriate case? 02:21:16 <rdococ> no, there's a 'ELSE GOTO LINE' at the end of each instruction so 02:21:21 <hppavilion1> I know 02:21:27 <hppavilion1> But I assumed that wasn't required 02:21:37 <hppavilion1> So that's necessary or the program is invalid? 02:21:38 <rdococ> hmm... well... 02:21:57 <rdococ> I guess so? 02:22:10 <hppavilion1> OK 02:22:16 <hppavilion1> That complicates things a little 02:22:18 <hppavilion1> But that's fine 02:22:39 <rdococ> I meant thats neccessary 02:22:42 <rdococ> necessary* 02:22:47 <hppavilion1> I know 02:22:55 <hppavilion1> That's what complicates things 02:23:04 <rdococ> really? 02:23:07 <hppavilion1> Ensuring that it ends with a valid else statement 02:23:15 <rdococ> k 02:23:23 <hppavilion1> Not by _much_ 02:30:32 <hppavilion1> Here's another thing to work on 02:30:40 <hppavilion1> Esoteric Markup Languages 02:32:15 <hppavilion1> rdococ: You there? 02:34:18 <oren> I made one called TTML (teletype markup lanuge) it's on the wiki 02:35:02 <hppavilion1> Awesome 02:35:47 <hppavilion1> Though not quite what I wanted 02:37:24 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:38:34 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:38:42 <hppavilion1> Another one that I want to write: 02:38:45 <hppavilion1> HTPL 02:38:50 <hppavilion1> HyperText Programming Language 02:39:03 <hppavilion1> Since HTML is often mistaken for a programming language, why not make it one? 02:39:04 <hppavilion1> :P 02:41:53 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:58:47 -!- Herbalist has joined. 03:00:09 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:05:57 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PRINTED CHICKEN). 03:24:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:25:01 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:43:36 -!- hilquias has joined. 03:51:24 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 04:04:26 -!- Wright_ has joined. 04:04:26 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:48:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:19:21 -!- Wright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:35:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:36:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:45:07 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/eurovision 05:45:25 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull oerjan 05:45:46 <oerjan> `url wisdom/eurovision 05:45:49 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/eurovision 05:47:19 <oerjan> `` hg log -remove wisdom/eurovision | paste 05:47:22 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.26702 \ abort: unknown revision 'emove'! 05:47:35 <oerjan> `` hg log --remove wisdom/eurovision | paste 05:47:39 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.27643 05:49:50 * oerjan suddenly wonders how HackEgo's do-everything-twice workflow interacts with paste 05:50:09 <oerjan> does it create two files, only one of which gets committed? 05:51:44 <oerjan> `? sine 05:51:45 <HackEgo> sine sin(e) =0.410781290502908695476009492018360591888306970393415345304571... 05:51:54 <oerjan> `rm wisdom/sine 05:51:56 <HackEgo> No output. 05:52:45 * oerjan has limited patience with people who cannot use `learn correctly. 05:52:52 <oerjan> or `le/rn, for that matter. 06:03:20 <oerjan> `learn A ridicule is a tiny particle composed of bad jokes. 06:03:22 <HackEgo> Learned 'ridicule': A ridicule is a tiny particle composed of bad jokes. 06:43:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Darmok]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43242&oldid=43233 * Oerjan * (+267) Sorry 06:44:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43243&oldid=43229 * Oerjan * (-1) /* D */ Ho hum 06:51:27 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 06:52:59 -!- Walpurgisnacht has joined. 06:54:04 <Walpurgisnacht> The last bug? 06:54:07 <Walpurgisnacht> In what 06:57:25 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 07:00:03 -!- Edit has joined. 07:00:03 -!- Walpurgisnacht has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:00:39 <Edit> Gah disconnects 07:03:24 -!- Edit has quit (Client Quit). 07:03:39 -!- Walpurgisnacht has joined. 07:03:56 <oerjan> Walpurgisnacht: in his program 07:04:05 <Walpurgisnacht> Ah I see 07:04:16 <Walpurgisnacht> I'm having internet troubles 07:05:47 <oerjan> the internet: nothing but trouble since 1982 07:06:24 <Walpurgisnacht> Haha 07:06:30 <Walpurgisnacht> Indeed. 07:09:07 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 07:09:15 <Walpurgisnacht> I was 4 in 1982 so I wouldn't know exactly 07:18:13 <Sgeo> Racket 6.2 released 07:24:39 <izabera> There are two types of people: 1) Those, who start their indices with 1 1) Those, who start their indices with 0. 07:25:20 -!- password2 has joined. 07:27:04 <izabera> y u no laugh 07:27:06 <izabera> it's funny 07:27:19 <izabera> -.- you're a bunch of unfunny nerds 07:27:56 * oerjan throws a cream pie at izabera 07:28:13 <izabera> i needed it 07:28:31 <oerjan> because (0) that jokes is _so_ old (2) i was browsing something else 07:28:35 <oerjan> *joke 07:29:05 <oerjan> *that kind of 07:29:11 <izabera> There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and naming things. 07:29:17 <izabera> There are two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors. 07:29:44 <izabera> if you don't laugh, i'll keep going 07:30:12 <izabera> next will be jokes about the binary system 07:30:35 <oerjan> there are three hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, off-by-one errors, and ruthless efficiency. 07:30:58 <izabera> ok this means war 07:31:48 * oerjan suddenly notices izabera's nick looks suspiciously spanish. what have i done? 07:31:54 <izabera> what 07:31:58 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:32:01 <izabera> it doesn't 07:32:10 <izabera> it look japaneseish 07:32:13 <izabera> looks* 07:32:28 <oerjan> spanish, i say. 07:32:38 <izabera> you don't even speak spanish 07:32:44 <izabera> i do 07:32:46 <izabera> toro 07:32:48 <izabera> tortilla 07:32:54 <oerjan> oh actually google thinks it's basque, means aunt. 07:33:09 <oerjan> but that's still mostly in spain, for now. 07:33:33 <izabera> izabera is how you write isabella in katakana 07:33:52 <oerjan> yeah i see that if i force google translate to try with japanese 07:36:07 * oerjan realizes his "ruthless efficiency" was off-by-one, it should have been "an almost fanatical devotion to the pope" 07:55:45 <Jafet> The naming-things thing? We need a better name for that. 08:01:06 <oerjan> Jafet: the verbinator hth 08:12:19 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 08:16:56 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:22:33 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:32:09 -!- Walpurgisnacht has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:35:12 -!- hilquias has joined. 08:59:25 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:15:19 -!- rdococ has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:27:07 <Taneb> Good morning 09:27:47 -!- rdococ has joined. 09:30:55 <coppro> good day, sir 09:33:55 <rdococ> umm...hi...? 09:35:47 <Taneb> I'm going to be working with Apache Thrift very soon, so I need to work out what Apache Thrift is 09:35:54 -!- gamemanj has joined. 09:36:55 <rdococ> what is it? 09:38:45 <Taneb> It's a sort of layer for communicating between two different programming languages 09:38:57 <b_jonas> hehe, someone asks a question innocently, to which someone else replies that it's complicated and there are entire books written on research about just that one question. that's always funny. 09:39:19 <Taneb> It has a universal way of defining data types 09:39:27 <rdococ> ...? 09:39:28 <Taneb> ("universal", it supports around 20 languages) 09:39:37 <rdococ> oh...umm...okay? 09:39:52 <Taneb> So you can write your datatype declarations in Thrift and it generates C, Java, Haskell, whatever 09:40:05 <Taneb> http://thrift.apache.org/ 09:40:31 <rdococ> ooh 09:40:48 <b_jonas> Taneb: ah, I have those kinds of things. serializers that are supposed to serialize and deserialize any kind of data, or universal wrappers that are supposed to wrap any function or class to call from another language. I hate them. 09:41:23 <Taneb> b_jonas, any particular reason? 09:41:42 <rdococ> or, just use a single language for it all 09:42:27 <b_jonas> I think the specifics of how the data is used have to be taken into account, and save/load functions and foreign wrappers should be written partly by hand, and even if you use some general framework for it, you should use lots of annotations about specifics for them so you can control all the details. 09:43:01 <b_jonas> I just don't think the universal serializers are a good idea, because different languages have very different ideas about how data should be represented to be usable well. 09:43:24 <rdococ> the PFIL article is empty... 09:43:52 <Taneb> rdococ, using a single language is often undesirable, different languages are better for different things 09:44:49 <b_jonas> Plus also, those serialized representation languages like json and all the more complicated ones almost never seem to be able to represent both character strings and byte arrays, even though I think both of those are important. And many of them don't even have sensible ways to represent numbers. 09:45:05 <b_jonas> And that's even before you get into automatic serialization of data structures into them. 09:45:37 <Taneb> b_jonas, yes, it is a little problematic like that (your first point), but I think that often things like this are a quick solution and that is all that is needed 09:45:44 <Taneb> And thrift seems to do numbers nicely :) 09:46:03 <b_jonas> Taneb: yes, exactly, which is why automatically wrapping between them is useless. If you try to force a common data representation and function call system on multiple languages, you LOSE most of the important advantages of the different languages in first place. 09:47:05 <b_jonas> Taneb: those wrapper stuffs works when someone invents a supposedly "revolutionary new programming language" that's actually just C or java or ruby with slightly different syntax, and then is lazy to port libraries to it, so wraps the corresponding C or java or ruby libraries to it in a straightforward way, which just proves that his language doesn't really do anything new. 09:48:13 <Taneb> b_jonas, Thrift seems quite nice and not failing the failures you seem to find common, but I am just learning it and do not have much experience in this area so I cannot really explain satisfactorily 09:48:33 <b_jonas> Taneb: yes, numbers aren't _always_ bad, numbers are actually probably a case where you can make wrapping possible, because there's only like a few dozen useful ways to represent numbers in both languages, so you can write conversion to each of the at most few hundred pairs of them that is ever useful. 09:49:25 <Jafet> b_jonas: welcome to the channel for revolutionary new programming language design and deployment 09:49:41 <b_jonas> Jafet: yes, but they aren't even always esoteric 09:50:01 <b_jonas> as in, sometimes the intention is to build a practical language 09:50:05 <Taneb> Although Thrift was originally designed for Facebook's internal needs so has the features they wanted and has good support for the languages they were using at the time 09:51:12 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:51:47 <b_jonas> Taneb: well, designing the system for a particular well-defined use case is at least a plus. If you have a particular need for wrappers or serializers or frameworks, sure, go on. But don't expect me to believe that it's some sort of universal silver bullet for a very general task. 09:52:10 <Taneb> b_jonas, I didn't intend to 09:53:57 -!- gamemanj has joined. 09:54:23 <rdococ> "for a very general task" said every programming language ever 09:54:57 <Jafet> Silver bullets, ideal for shooting one's foot 09:55:29 <b_jonas> Jafet: huh? why would I do that, I'm not specifically vulnerable to silver, so an ordinary bullet would work. 09:56:57 <gamemanj> Would be a waste of silver, too. 09:57:43 <rdococ> yeah use a dirt bullet instead 09:58:24 <gamemanj> (because there's no reason to shoot b_jonas) 09:58:49 <rdococ> (yeah, why not shoot everyone else too?) 09:59:24 <gamemanj> (why shoot anyone?) 09:59:47 <rdococ> (why not?) 10:00:17 -!- password2 has joined. 10:00:33 <Taneb> I would advocate against shooting everyone 10:00:48 <rdococ> why would you? 10:01:16 <gamemanj> Taneb: Seconded. 10:01:33 <Taneb> rdococ, it tends to annoy a lot of people 10:01:47 <Taneb> Who might try and shoot you first or throw you in jail or something 10:01:48 <rdococ> true... 10:02:11 <gamemanj> It hurts them, too. 10:02:11 -!- lleu has joined. 10:02:12 <rdococ> lol... 10:02:36 <rdococ> what, you think I didn't know that? why would I shoot anybody? I never said I wanted to... 10:03:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Not shooting people, the new up-and-coming trend). 10:03:50 <rdococ> hahahaha 10:04:11 <gamemanj> Trend? 10:04:26 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk). 10:09:16 <rdococ> fashion 10:18:38 <b_jonas> these spammers should learn some Hungarian. they send machine-translated scam messages (mostly email account related phishing) that have terrible machine translated text 10:19:18 <gamemanj> When shooting people becomes fashionable... the world will be mad... 10:19:51 <rdococ> well, feminism is already fashionable, and I dont like that 10:20:10 <rdococ> I absolutely hate feminism for claiming to be equal, yet only solving one gender's problems 10:20:40 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:21:48 <b_jonas> meanwhile, the airline is sending me ads to buy extras for the airplane tickets I bought, with crazy text like “Do you have everything prepared for your journey?” I don't, duh, because it's still months away, I'm not in a hurry. 10:22:10 <b_jonas> why would I buy stuff now when I can do it later as I decide on the details? 10:22:22 <b_jonas> I'm visiting Sweden in August 10:32:14 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:42:30 -!- Herbalist has joined. 10:49:19 -!- Herbalist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:50:11 -!- Herbalist has joined. 10:53:27 <b_jonas> just to be clear, when Americans say “Eastern time”, that means the USA/New York time zone, the one that's -04:00 in the summer, right? 11:00:39 <rdococ> google it 11:00:55 <Taneb> I think so 11:03:02 <b_jonas> rdococ: I did better, I checked timeanddate.com , but "Eastern time" is so ambiguous and used for like five timezones that I can never be sure 11:03:19 <b_jonas> "Eastern time (North America)" would be fine, but I'm reading a note that says "Eastern time" only 11:03:34 <b_jonas> and it's from either an American or a Canadian 11:06:26 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 11:07:35 <rdococ> write back to them asking to clarify 11:09:00 <b_jonas> rdococ: no, I'll look up the same info from other sources instead 11:09:16 <b_jonas> it's not a one-one-one meeting request, but a public event 11:09:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:10:13 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:20:32 <Taneb> b_jonas, thinking about it, I think EST refers specifically to GMT-5 11:20:59 <Taneb> Although Eastern Time... 11:21:03 <Taneb> Aaaah, this is ambiguous 11:21:08 <Taneb> It's either GMT-5 or -4 11:21:12 <Taneb> I'd show up early and bring a book 11:22:44 <b_jonas> it's clearly in the summer, as in very soon, so it's summer time 11:23:59 <b_jonas> oh wait, north america has a few territories that don't use DST at all, right? 11:24:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:52:59 -!- nys has joined. 12:06:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Asterisks * New user account 12:07:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43244&oldid=43187 * Asterisks * (+4) /* General languages */ 12:10:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43245&oldid=43244 * Asterisks * (+36) /* General languages */ 12:12:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[*]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43246 * Asterisks * (+161) Simply Asterisks 12:13:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[*]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43247&oldid=43246 * Asterisks * (+6) 12:39:20 -!- zadock has joined. 12:57:53 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:06:53 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:25:00 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:31:42 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 13:33:38 -!- boily has joined. 13:46:24 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:47:31 -!- lleu has joined. 13:51:59 -!- Herbalist has joined. 13:55:29 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:56:16 -!- scoofy has joined. 13:56:34 <boily> @massages-loud 13:56:34 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages 14:00:01 <shachaf> hi 14:04:49 <nys> anybody know how newtypes were represented in haskell before System FC? >.> 14:13:14 -!- heroux has joined. 14:13:35 <nys> er, in GHC i mean 14:14:06 <shachaf> I don't know. 14:14:09 <shachaf> unsafeCoerce? 14:15:12 -!- hjulle has joined. 14:21:45 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:38:33 <b_jonas> `? unsafeCoerce 14:38:43 <HackEgo> unsafeCoerce? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:38:58 <shachaf> `wisdom 14:38:59 <HackEgo> monad/Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 14:39:03 <shachaf> `wisdom 14:39:04 <HackEgo> taneb/Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, and cube root of five genders. (See also: tanebventions) 14:39:49 <shachaf> @quote copumpkin terminal 14:39:49 <lambdabot> copumpkin says: a monad is just a lax functor from a terminal bicategory, duh. fuck that monoid in category of endofunctors shit 14:40:23 <b_jonas> nys: dunno, as newtypes are mostly the same as strict data (which I think haskell compilers have anyway), except for some deriving rules, I just assumed they're always represented as strict data 14:45:39 <boily> `wisdom 14:45:40 <HackEgo> cake/The Enrichment Center is required to remind you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake. 14:45:49 <boily> `wisdom 14:45:50 <HackEgo> m&ndash;rdalsj&ouml;kull/M&ndash;rdalsj&ouml;kull is a draconic volcano harbouring the secret KATL base. 14:46:03 <boily> that was a weird one... 14:46:15 <boily> @metar KATL 14:46:15 <lambdabot> KATL 201421Z 25009G15KT 10SM BKN023 28/22 A3007 RMK AO2 14:46:23 <boily> @metar CYQB 14:46:23 <lambdabot> CYQB 201400Z 00000KT 30SM FEW050 BKN240 16/07 A3010 RMK CU1CI5 CU TR SLP192 14:46:30 <boily> yup. 28 is draconic enough. 14:48:05 <Taneb> `wisdom 14:48:06 <HackEgo> funpun/funpuns fceø fbz fryyrev naq pbfcynlf Arcrgn Yrvwba ba jrrxraqf. 14:48:15 <Taneb> `words 14:48:17 <HackEgo> ashapprea 14:48:17 <nys> b_jonas: i thought strict data needed an actual container to match on? 14:48:20 <Taneb> `words 10 14:48:21 <HackEgo> vastre prophy dispel shiberwher sphospi loro lutterin rome jdgeme commetalome 14:48:39 <b_jonas> nys: hmm… I dunno 14:48:56 <b_jonas> nys: if it's strict data, would it have a container? wouldn't it be represented as just a struct of its members? 14:49:10 <b_jonas> or does that not work well with the runtime system for passing it to functions? 14:49:11 <nys> yeah that's what i mean 14:49:22 <nys> i don't think newtypes are actually contained within anything 14:49:54 <b_jonas> sure, but if it has no extras, just _one_ member, then what difference does that effectively have at runtime from holding that single value without a container? 14:50:30 <b_jonas> I think the runtime system has to be able to handle non-boxed values, and pass them to functions, anyway 14:50:43 <b_jonas> because it's necessary for other optimizations, such as unboxed numbers 14:50:58 <b_jonas> but if you want a real answer, ask on #haskell or #ghc or something 14:51:10 <b_jonas> because I don't know haskell enough 14:51:14 <b_jonas> or ask oren here or something 14:51:34 <b_jonas> or the other haskell guy, there's a lot of them here for some reason, it's as if they thought Haskell was… 14:52:17 -!- Wright has joined. 14:52:56 <Jafet> Yes, we think that Haskell is a practical, accessible, serious and effective programming language 14:53:52 <Jafet> Maybe we need more weird DSLs, like the reverse state transformer monad... 14:54:41 <b_jonas> well it certainly has a good serious non-esoteric compiler at least 14:57:18 <Melvar> IIRC a newtype specifically means that there is no wrapper: The runtime representation is exactly the same as the contained type, and the constructor and projection become identity functions. 14:57:59 <shachaf> That's the intent, but the Report hardly talks about runtime representations enough to specify it precisely. 14:58:02 <Jafet> Not exactly: they may still have different typeclass dictionaries. 14:59:12 <Melvar> Typeclass dictionaries are separate objects. 15:01:43 -!- Herbalist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:03:32 -!- Herbalist has joined. 15:10:57 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:16:24 <rdococ> goodness sake 15:16:35 <rdococ> I want to make a language called Polynomial but it already exists 15:17:09 <rdococ> :O 15:17:11 <rdococ> I have an idea 15:17:48 -!- Herbalist has joined. 15:18:22 <boily> you have an idea? 15:18:32 <rdococ> a program p is a function that takes input i and returns program q and output o. 15:19:02 <rdococ> so in a video game program, when you take one step to the right, you get transferred to another program created on the fly in which you're one step to the right. 15:19:30 <rdococ> wait... isnt that just an FSA??? 15:20:30 <rdococ> idk anymore 15:23:57 <Taneb> It could be like a FSA except with infinite states 15:24:02 <rdococ> yeah 15:24:05 <Taneb> Depending on how the programs are constructed 15:24:09 <rdococ> well 15:24:15 <Taneb> Which could make it any number of complexities 15:24:16 <rdococ> I had the idea that programs were formulae 15:24:47 <rdococ> so a program in my idea would have to be a formula that returns output and another formula (that returns output and another formula which returns ... and so on) 15:26:21 <rdococ> or, programs could just map a single input to a single output for ease 15:27:28 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 15:37:10 <rdococ> x is cat function 15:37:18 <rdococ> x^2 is square cat function 15:38:58 <b_jonas> "square cat" 15:43:25 <scoofy> what is a square cat 15:43:44 <rdococ> if you put in 8, square cat says 64. 15:43:56 <scoofy> what if you put in 'nutella' 15:44:05 <rdococ> oh... umm... 15:44:09 <Jafet> You get vegemite, scoofy 15:44:45 <rdococ> 10000, duh, number of calories in a tablespoon of nutella squared. 15:45:00 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CONGLOMERATE CHICKEN). 15:45:17 <Jafet> Only if you use the call-by-caloric-value evaluation strategy 15:46:25 <rdococ> true 15:47:01 <rdococ> x^3 is cube cat... 15:48:24 <Taneb> What about x^7 + 2x^4 + x^3 - x - 2? 15:49:39 <b_jonas> rdococ: cat? but aren't functions actually birds? 15:50:25 <Taneb> b_jonas, functions which take functions as arguments and emit functions are 15:50:35 <Taneb> I suspect these are different 15:50:44 <b_jonas> aren't all functions like that, in that universe? 15:50:59 <b_jonas> as in, numbers are represented by birds too 15:51:02 <Taneb> Yes 15:51:07 <b_jonas> or by the name of birds at least 15:51:10 <Taneb> Therefore some birds are in fact cats 15:52:44 <Jafet> This must be what they mean by polymorphism 15:53:01 <b_jonas> yeah, but cats are a more violent representation of birds. birds take the argument in the form of a call with the other bird's name, whereas cats _eat_ birds 15:53:18 <b_jonas> I think cats aren't birds, but they're a different way to represent some birds 15:53:38 <b_jonas> and cats usually don't eat other cats 15:53:50 <Jafet> `cat canary 15:54:10 <HackEgo> toot 15:54:17 <Taneb> Some birds eat birds 15:55:34 <scoofy> but cats eat birds 15:56:10 <b_jonas> yes, and cats also eat rats or canned food made of birds 15:56:11 <tswett> rdococ: so far, your programming language is simply the collection of all polynomials. 15:57:43 <rdococ> yes 15:57:47 <tswett> Hmm. Is there a polynomial function in the ring of integers modulo 10, which takes on the value 1 at 0, and 0 at all other inputs? 15:58:04 <tswett> The polynomial (1 - x)(2 - x)(3 - x)...(9 - x) doesn't work. 15:58:27 <tswett> That one's 0 at 0 despite not having (0 - x) as an obvious factor. 15:59:05 <rdococ> yes, just use interpolation duh 15:59:15 <b_jonas> tswett: what? no it's not 15:59:21 <b_jonas> oh 15:59:25 <b_jonas> ring of integers modulo 10 15:59:28 <b_jonas> sorry 16:00:43 <rdococ> you can approximate it - and any other periodical function like sine, cosine, etcetera 16:02:02 <Taneb> tswett, it needs a constant factor of 1 16:14:02 <Jafet> It only exists for prime moduli (and then, it seems that the only polynomial is (n-1)x^(n-1)). 16:42:46 <rdococ> ... 16:44:13 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:48:15 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:50:18 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:50:26 <HackEgo> funciton/A funciton is the number of burgers to eat when I get one. 16:50:35 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:50:37 <HackEgo> el camino real/There is no royal road to analytic geometry. 16:51:03 <Taneb> Is there a royal road to other parts of mathematics? 16:51:22 <b_jonas> http://thedoghousediaries.com/ would be better without the third panel 16:51:56 <shachaf> I guess there should be a 'camino real' entry and a symlink from 'el camino real' for consistency. 16:53:02 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:53:03 <HackEgo> moon/The Moon is an unprovable celestial object that is not very retroreflectorey. 16:53:17 <shachaf> Taneb: I don't think there's a royal road to any sort of geometry. 16:53:30 <shachaf> Taneb: But analytic geometry deals with the reals, presumably. 16:54:25 <shachaf> b_jonas: i don't get it hth 16:54:52 <shachaf> Oh, apparently Antiques Roadshow is a television show. Maybe I would get it if I watched the show. 16:55:41 <b_jonas> shachaf: no the tv show is irrelevant I think. or maybe that's what would make the third panel funny, I don't know. 16:56:10 <b_jonas> I've heared of such tv shows (and even seen a few ten minutes of one). 16:56:27 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:56:28 <HackEgo> arrow/Arrows are just strong monads in the category of profunctors. 16:56:33 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:56:34 <HackEgo> c#/C Pound is Java's good twin. 16:57:23 <rdococ> `stupidity 16:57:24 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: stupidity: not found 16:57:54 <rdococ> `dumbidiotsaysnotfound 16:57:54 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dumbidiotsaysnotfound: not found 16:58:02 <shachaf> Please stop. 16:58:12 <rdococ> uh... 16:58:49 <rdococ> whats the difference between you saying `wisdom all the time and me saying stuff beginning with ` all the time? 16:59:35 <shachaf> Well, you already know the results of your things, which is an error. Every time I say `wisdom we get a new entry (though I probably do overdo it). 16:59:43 <shachaf> Also the things you said were mean and insulting. 16:59:53 <b_jonas> wow, I knew David Madore was very good in writing his blog articles to explain his thoughts well, but this long coherent sentence is brilliant. 17:00:11 <rdococ> uh... sorry, didn't know a bot had feelings... sarcasm.end; 17:00:35 <Jafet> Maybe you just need to wise up a little bit. 17:00:41 <b_jonas> it's a long sentence with a complicated nested composed structure, but it manages to hold together perfectly parseable in first try with very few extra glue particulars. 17:01:08 <b_jonas> “D'autant plus que ce n'était pas tellement le résultat du calcul qui m'intéressait, et dont je suis totalement certain qu'il est connu depuis Klein, Cayley, Clebsch ou, au pire, Segre, et qu'il figure dans quantité de livres ou d'articles, mais d'y arriver moi-même, et de façon systématique, sans essayer de « deviner » le résultat (qui, a posteriori, était éminemment devinable), bref, de vérifier que je savais mener ce calcul à bien.” 17:01:51 <b_jonas> If I learnt to write so well, I could write my damned thesis easily. 17:02:09 <b_jonas> He manages to do that with complicated mathematical content in a popular way too. 17:02:52 <b_jonas> Maybe I should put more skill points in this, even though it's cross class for me. 17:03:36 <shachaf> Is that sentence so good that I should learn French to understand it? 17:03:38 <b_jonas> Writing well requires a check with bonus from which attribute? Charisma? 17:03:46 <b_jonas> shachaf: not for that sentence, no 17:04:19 <Taneb> b_jonas, either CHA or WIS 17:04:24 <Taneb> Probably CHA 17:04:31 <b_jonas> Wis? why Wis? 17:04:42 <b_jonas> Wis is for perception and for strength of will. 17:05:01 <b_jonas> Ok, for more than that actually. I don't really know because it's a dump stat for me. 17:05:09 <Taneb> It's for knowing the right thing to do 17:05:28 <b_jonas> Ah, that might be a good description. 17:05:32 * gamemanj doesn't understand the sentence... but the keyword "Klein" suggests a relation to mathematical spaces... 17:07:03 <b_jonas> Taneb: it's a good description because it explains why strength of will and perception of the outside world can come together in a single attribute so well. 17:07:56 <tswett> In the ring of integers modulo 10, is x^5 always equal to x? 17:08:40 <Taneb> Yes 17:08:46 -!- evalj has joined. 17:08:48 <b_jonas> ] 5^~i.10 17:08:49 <evalj> b_jonas: 0 1 32 243 1024 3125 7776 16807 32768 59049 17:08:52 <b_jonas> ] 10|5^~i.10 17:08:53 <evalj> b_jonas: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 17:08:59 <b_jonas> ] (i.10)-:10|5^~i.10 17:09:00 <evalj> b_jonas: 1 17:09:05 <b_jonas> tswett: yes 17:10:06 -!- nisstyre has joined. 17:10:37 <tswett> So certainly not all functions are polynomial functions. 17:10:56 <tswett> The number of polynomial functions is only... 10^5? 17:11:11 <b_jonas> ] 10|4^~i.10 17:11:12 <evalj> b_jonas: 0 1 6 1 6 5 6 1 6 1 17:11:36 <tswett> Hey look, it's... those. 17:11:50 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 17:11:50 -!- nisstyre has joined. 17:11:57 <tswett> There's a word for a number x such that x^2 = x. 17:12:11 <Taneb> Quadratic repricorewfwief or something 17:14:17 <Jafet> `quote \S+core\b 17:14:19 <HackEgo> 215) <Vorpal> !bfjoust test (-)*10000 <EgoBot> Score for Vorpal_test: 12.9 <Vorpal> yay \ 216) <Vorpal> !bfjoust test (++-)*1000000 <Vorpal> probably will suck <EgoBot> Score for Vorpal_test: 30.4 <Vorpal> what \ 223) <Deewiant> !bfjoust sm3 < <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sm3: 43.4 \ 1064) <kmc> are you a hardcore PC gamer Sgeo_ <Sgeo_> Want 17:14:46 <tswett> !bfjoust 17:14:46 <EgoBot> ​Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 17:15:21 <Jafet> `quote \S{3,}core\b 17:15:22 <HackEgo> 1064) <kmc> are you a hardcore PC gamer Sgeo_ <Sgeo_> Want to be 17:25:48 <rdococ> aww ok 17:26:01 <rdococ> but what if instead we used something like fourier did? 17:26:22 <rdococ> 3sin(3x + 2) - 3 or something 17:26:49 <Taneb> I don't think sin is well-defined in Z/10Z 17:27:00 <rdococ> ah, fourier series 17:27:22 <Taneb> `quote field 17:27:23 <HackEgo> 267) <zzo38> elliott: I doubt water memory can last for even one second in a gravitational field (or even outside of a gravitational field), but other people think they can make water memory with telephones. \ 401) <Taneb> Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. \ 452) <zzo38> Pythagoras was 17:27:31 <rdococ> also there are infinitely many polynomial functions because you can just keep adding terms and stuff 17:28:03 <Taneb> There are infinitely many polynomials but only so many polynomial functions 17:28:11 <rdococ> wait 17:28:15 <rdococ> whats the difference? 17:28:50 <Taneb> Some polynomials define the same function (in some rings) 17:28:58 <rdococ> right...... 17:29:09 <Taneb> As was pointed out earlier, x^5 = x in Z/10Z 17:29:32 <Taneb> In fact, there are only 10^10 functions from Z/10Z to Z/10Z 17:30:01 <nortti> what is Z/10Z? 17:30:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:30:30 <rdococ> uh integers modulo 10 I think? 17:30:40 <nortti> aah 17:30:43 <Taneb> nortti, it is a notation for a group isomorphic to integers modulo 10 17:30:51 <Taneb> Or ring, even 17:30:55 <rdococ> did I say I wanted this Z/10Z stuff? 17:31:17 <Taneb> rdococ, no, I was thinking of a conversation which happened in between 17:31:18 <Taneb> Sorry 17:33:06 <rdococ> oh ok 17:34:31 <Taneb> So yeah, disregard what I said then (although it may be interesting in its own right) 17:45:30 <tswett> !bfjoust fracko >([-]----->)*40000 17:45:33 <EgoBot> ​Score for tswett_fracko: 8.0 17:46:49 <Jafet> I don't think the jousting field is that long. 17:47:05 <tswett> Nobody knows for sure. 17:50:46 <tswett> So I imagine the hill just keeps the top 48 or something. 17:52:21 <oerjan> nobody knows what for sure? 17:53:05 <Taneb> oerjan, how long the jousting field is 17:53:11 <Taneb> Maybe it's three miles 17:53:34 <oerjan> i suppose, in an abstract theoretical way 17:53:56 <Jafet> I hear that it's infinitely long, but only on one side 17:54:53 <oerjan> this is rubbish, clearly once you pass the flags you fall off onto the turtle the field sits on hth 17:55:33 <Jafet> Hmm, competitive turtles 17:55:41 <shachaf> `wisdom 17:55:42 <HackEgo> lmt/lmt is insufficiently mad for this channel. 17:55:56 <oerjan> @seen lmt 17:55:57 <lambdabot> lM7 17:56:02 <oerjan> wat 17:56:11 <Jafet> @seen oerjan 17:56:11 <lambdabot> 0erJ4n 17:56:23 <oerjan> i think int-e must have disabled it again 17:56:31 <oerjan> @leet now it's this 17:56:31 <lambdabot> No\/\/ i+'$ 7HIs 17:57:05 <gamemanj> `cat wisdom/bfjoust 17:57:05 <HackEgo> bfjoust is a spamming tool for #esoteric. 17:57:31 <oerjan> anyway i recall he came by sometime in the last months 17:57:42 <shachaf> `wisdom 17:57:43 <HackEgo> pdf/PDF stands for Pretty Depressing Format. 17:57:46 <oerjan> `? bfjoust 17:57:47 <HackEgo> bfjoust is a spamming tool for #esoteric. 17:58:19 <Jafet> I suppose a competitive turtle game would proceed like lightcycle racing 17:58:24 <tswett> For every collection of turtles, there is a turtle not in the collection. 17:58:34 <tswett> For example, consider the collection of all turtles. 17:58:39 <tswett> There is a turtle not in that collection. 17:58:56 <oerjan> i find your proof incomplete hth 17:59:08 <tswett> That wasn't a proof. 18:01:07 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:01:08 <HackEgo> goat/Goats are drunk 24/7, ask Solain for details. 18:01:10 <oerjan> dammit accidentally typed an n into a tatham puzzle 18:01:21 <tswett> All right, so I see that my bfjoust program isn't very effective. 18:01:27 <oerjan> wtf doesn't it allow undo past n 18:01:42 <oerjan> (not that that helps with q, which should be eviscerated) 18:02:04 <Jafet> Something something open source 18:02:49 <oerjan> it's such a stupid thing to do that it must be willfully designed. 18:03:17 <oerjan> and stubbornly kept. 18:03:19 <Jafet> I remember the days when firefox mapped ^Q to quit 18:03:56 <Jafet> (on most keyboards, it's next to ^W) 18:04:21 <rdococ> qwerty 18:04:25 <Melvar> Ctrl-Q is still quit. 18:08:21 <tswett> What's tatham> 18:08:25 <tswett> I mean, what's tatham? 18:09:07 <Jafet> Not by default. On linux, firefox gets the ^Q binding from desktop settings. 18:10:03 <oerjan> tswett: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/ 18:20:23 <tswett> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/map.html - with this one, I find myself relatively frequently depending on the fact that there's only one consistent coloring. 18:20:57 <tswett> "If this region had this color, then this region would be bordered by only two other colors, but that's impossible because there would be two consistent colorings then." 18:22:52 <oerjan> tswett: i don't recall ever needing that. 18:23:04 <oerjan> it might be a shortcut, though. 18:23:26 <oerjan> some puzzles have an option to turn off uniqueness, maybe that does. 18:23:59 <oerjan> admittedly map isn't one of my favorites so i usually don't play it that long 18:24:08 <tswett> Theoretically, it's never needed. 18:26:45 <Jafet> .oO( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valiant-Vazirani_theorem ) 18:28:11 <Taneb> Where did this .oO( ) thing come from 18:28:31 <oerjan> i think int-e is the main perpetrator 18:30:28 * oerjan seems to have forgotten the tricks to doing map puzzles again 18:35:56 <tswett> "Place a tent next to each tree." Well, that sounds easy. 18:36:14 <oerjan> it's not too hard 18:36:29 <oerjan> well sometimes 18:36:58 <Jafet> ₒ∘°˚ᴼ(would you prefer this?) 18:37:59 <shachaf> ski is also a perpetrator 18:38:06 <shachaf> I think it means rougly the same as I,I 18:38:37 <Taneb> Jafet, I am just confused by its sudden appearance a few weeks ago 18:40:30 <Jafet> `log \.oO 18:40:31 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/log: 2: cd: can't cd to /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ grep: ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory 19:03:26 <Jafet> According to my logs, it's been around for longer. I can't find a line where int-e uses it, though. 19:09:29 <oerjan> Jafet: try with extra spaces 19:10:10 <Jafet> Ah, that nails the perp. 19:10:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43248&oldid=43109 * Jabutosama * (+242) /* Ideas for Names */ 19:12:07 <tswett> Hey, how is the score of a program on EgoBot's bfjoust hill determined? 19:12:24 <tswett> It's not obvious how "score" and "points" are related. 19:18:31 <tswett> !bfjoust stupid_bad (>[>>>>[+]])*40000 19:18:33 <EgoBot> ​Score for tswett_stupid_bad: 4.7 19:19:38 <oerjan> !help bfjoust 19:19:38 <EgoBot> ​Sorry, I have no help for bfjoust! 19:19:40 <oerjan> !help 19:19:41 <zemhill__> oerjan: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information. 19:19:41 <EgoBot> ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>. 19:19:53 <oerjan> !help languages 19:19:53 <EgoBot> ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 19:20:10 <oerjan> hmph there might not be any obvious pointer to information 19:20:24 <oerjan> it's presumably on a github somewhere. 19:20:28 <myname> fyb? 19:21:03 <oerjan> fukyorbrane or something like that 19:21:21 <oerjan> brainfuck derived game 19:21:32 <oerjan> well hm 19:21:43 <oerjan> a different one 19:22:29 <oerjan> tswett: from what i recall EgoBot's point -> score updating isn't stateless, unlike zemhill's. 19:23:02 <oerjan> i.e. scores are adjusted from the points somehow, but based on the already existing scores. 19:23:22 <oerjan> and in a way such that submission order matters. 19:23:49 <oerjan> (i think the adjustment is linear or something similarly simple.) 19:24:51 <oerjan> zemhill, meanwhile, uses a matrix eigenvector calculation that takes all hill pairing results into account simultaneously. 19:25:19 <myname> bfjoust is serious business 19:26:01 <oerjan> zemhill's implementation used to have a serious bug which fizzie may or may not have managed to fix, though. 19:26:16 <oerjan> (stemming from the matrix library used.) 19:26:55 <oerjan> myname: well the only people who manage to get on the hills these days are those who treat it as such. 19:28:11 <Jafet> Eigenvector scoring (aka PageRank) isn't that serious. 19:28:39 <myname> is being on the hill is a valid point on a cv? 19:29:05 <Jafet> I don't think you want staying on the hill to be part of your employment 19:29:13 <Jafet> Then again, who knows. 19:29:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43249&oldid=43248 * Jabutosama * (+81) /* Joke/Silly Ideas */ 19:30:08 <myname> not part of it, but i do think it's quite the achievement 19:30:14 <gamemanj> myname: Maybe if framed as "Defensive Programming"... 19:30:35 <tswett> !bfjoust best_program_imaginable (>+[[-.]])*40000 19:30:37 <EgoBot> ​Score for tswett_best_program_imaginable: 7.4 19:32:25 <Jafet> What if your jouster isn't defensive 19:32:37 <oerjan> !zjoust tswett_best_program_imaginable (>+[[-.]])*40000 19:32:38 <tswett> Nonsense. 19:32:59 <Jafet> (I guess a rusher can be described as "agile") 19:33:13 <oerjan> hm maybe zemhill is actually broken. 19:35:17 <tswett> Huh, ais523_growth2 and ais523_preparation are apparently really good. 19:35:59 <tswett> Wait, ais523_preparation beats *every* program besides ais523_growth2? 19:43:54 <oerjan> that's ais523 for you. 19:45:40 <gamemanj> Sounds like ais523 is good at bfjoust. 19:45:59 <tswett> But is ais523 good at figuring out how "AA/INI/ZZ/IVI/V" is notation for the trefoil knot? 19:46:31 <tswett> That is, after all, the only thing truly worth figuring out. 19:47:24 <gamemanj> And 42 is the answer, right? 19:47:34 <tswett> As it happens, no. 19:48:31 <tswett> Here, have some equations. 19:48:53 <gamemanj> "the only thing truly worth figuring out." is relative... 19:49:31 <tswett> A/N = A. N/Z = II. IA/NI = AI/IZ. AI/IV = I. Uh, what was that last one. 19:49:47 <tswett> Eh, the last one is clear enough. 19:49:56 <tswett> Then add associativity and identity and there you go. 19:50:02 <tswett> Oh, and the symmetric versions of those rules. 19:50:08 <tswett> Can't forget those. 19:50:26 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 19:50:54 <tswett> See, we already have enough here to prove that A/IAI/IVI/V = AA/VV. 19:51:03 <tswett> Ha ha, A/IAI/IVI/V. What a funny expression. 19:56:02 <oerjan> <tswett> Hmm. Is there a polynomial function in the ring of integers modulo 10, which takes on the value 1 at 0, and 0 at all other inputs? <-- i don't think so. because 10 = 2*5, you can quotient down to Z/2Z, so if it's odd at 0, it must be odd at all other even coordinates. 19:56:19 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:56:26 <HackEgo> morphism/A morphism is just a natural transformation between two functors on 1. 19:56:58 <shachaf> good point 19:57:21 <myname> how many wisdoms containing the word "functor" are there? 19:57:48 <shachaf> `` rgrep -il functor wisdom | wc -l 19:57:58 <HackEgo> 10 19:58:45 <myname> nice 19:59:29 <oerjan> `` rgrep -il categor wisdom | wc -l 19:59:41 <HackEgo> 23 19:59:42 <shachaf> `` egrep -ril '(is|are) just' wisdom | wc -l 19:59:47 <HackEgo> 34 19:59:54 <myname> :D 20:00:12 <myname> i'd like a list of all of these 20:01:05 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:02:18 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:04:38 -!- Warrigal has joined. 20:05:11 -!- perrier_ has joined. 20:05:14 <oerjan> it's the weretswett! 20:05:35 -!- jix_ has joined. 20:05:38 <myname> i do like the idea of fyb 20:06:01 <Jafet> `` grep -Erwim1 '(is|are) just' wisdom | wc -l 20:06:03 <HackEgo> 34 20:06:12 -!- heroux_ has joined. 20:06:14 <shachaf> is that a ruder version of syb twh 20:06:33 -!- notfowl has joined. 20:07:54 <Jafet> Sounds like a useful language already 20:11:48 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 20:11:51 <oerjan> <Taneb> I don't think sin is well-defined in Z/10Z <-- you'd want to use group characters instead. 20:12:04 <Taneb> oerjan, I don't know characters! 20:12:11 <Taneb> (I will by Christmas, hopefully) 20:12:15 <oerjan> `? character 20:12:24 <HackEgo> character? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:12:24 <oerjan> now what 20:12:53 -!- evalj has quit (*.net *.split). 20:12:56 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 20:12:56 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 20:12:59 -!- perrier has quit (*.net *.split). 20:12:59 -!- fowl has quit (*.net *.split). 20:12:59 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 20:12:59 -!- ocharles_ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:12:59 -!- villasukka has quit (*.net *.split). 20:12:59 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 20:13:07 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 20:13:15 <oerjan> `learn A character is just a homomorphism to the group of complex numbers of modulus 1. 20:13:20 <HackEgo> Learned 'character': A character is just a homomorphism to the group of complex numbers of modulus 1. 20:13:55 -!- notfowl has changed nick to fowl. 20:16:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 20:19:28 <pikhq> /win 23 20:19:32 <pikhq> Grf 20:19:58 <myname> alt+d is much better 20:20:15 <pikhq> Not bound. 20:20:23 <myname> bind it 20:20:34 -!- ocharles_ has joined. 20:20:41 <myname> i have bound all the way to alt+m 20:20:46 -!- staffehn_ has joined. 20:22:48 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:22:49 -!- villasukka has joined. 20:23:03 -!- notfowl has joined. 20:26:13 -!- qlkzy_ has joined. 20:26:36 -!- izabera_ has joined. 20:28:20 -!- fowl has quit (*.net *.split). 20:28:20 -!- skarn has quit (*.net *.split). 20:28:20 -!- Melvar has quit (*.net *.split). 20:28:20 -!- staffehn has quit (*.net *.split). 20:28:20 -!- supay has quit (*.net *.split). 20:28:20 -!- qlkzy has quit (*.net *.split). 20:28:20 -!- izabera has quit (*.net *.split). 20:34:06 -!- supay has joined. 20:34:48 -!- supay has quit (Client Quit). 20:35:49 -!- root has joined. 20:36:14 -!- root has changed nick to Guest56152. 20:36:16 <Guest56152> oh crap, am I already in the channel? 20:36:30 -!- Melvar has joined. 20:37:18 -!- int-e_ has joined. 20:37:27 -!- Guest56152 has changed nick to oren2. 20:37:49 <oren2> damn I should have logged out at home before I came up here 20:37:51 -!- digitalc1ld has joined. 20:38:07 -!- shikhout has joined. 20:38:15 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined. 20:38:39 <oren2> or maybe configured the NAT 20:40:12 -!- diginet_ has joined. 20:41:11 -!- kenj0 has joined. 20:42:26 -!- atriq has joined. 20:43:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:43:57 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 20:46:12 -!- skarn has joined. 20:46:46 -!- zemhill__ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:46:46 -!- Sprocklem has quit (*.net *.split). 20:46:46 -!- ethiraric has quit (*.net *.split). 20:46:46 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 20:46:46 -!- fractal has quit (*.net *.split). 20:46:46 -!- mbrcknl has quit (*.net *.split). 20:46:46 -!- glowcoil has quit (*.net *.split). 20:46:46 -!- shikhin has quit (*.net *.split). 20:46:46 -!- digitalcold has quit (*.net *.split). 20:46:46 -!- diginet has quit (*.net *.split). 20:46:46 -!- int-e has quit (*.net *.split). 20:46:46 -!- v4s has quit (*.net *.split). 20:47:24 -!- ethiraric has joined. 20:47:45 <b_jonas> Where the heck is that story I remember? I can never find anything in this book. I should try to understand it more, but it's difficult. 20:48:39 -!- gde33|2 has joined. 20:49:40 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 20:49:43 -!- diginet_ has quit (Quit: diginet has quit!). 20:50:01 -!- diginet has joined. 20:50:24 -!- zemhill__ has joined. 20:51:02 -!- gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:51:59 -!- oren_ has joined. 20:52:09 -!- mroman_ has joined. 20:52:21 -!- jix has joined. 20:52:38 -!- heroux_ has joined. 20:52:41 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:54:08 -!- glowcoil has joined. 20:55:38 -!- shikhin has joined. 20:56:06 -!- mbrcknl has joined. 20:57:20 -!- skarn has quit (*.net *.split). 20:57:46 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 20:57:47 -!- kenj0 has quit (*.net *.split). 20:57:47 -!- ocharles_ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:57:47 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 20:57:47 -!- jix_ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:57:47 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 20:57:47 -!- oren has quit (*.net *.split). 20:57:47 -!- edwardk has quit (*.net *.split). 20:57:47 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split). 20:57:47 -!- mroman has quit (*.net *.split). 20:57:47 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 20:58:28 -!- HackEgo has joined. 20:58:38 -!- perrier__ has joined. 20:59:33 -!- quintopia has joined. 20:59:52 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:59:55 -!- perrier_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:59:55 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:59:55 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:59:55 -!- quintopi1 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:59:58 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:00:11 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:00:37 -!- Froo has joined. 21:00:51 -!- int-e_ has changed nick to int-e. 21:01:40 -!- Herbalist has joined. 21:01:55 -!- FireFly has joined. 21:03:18 -!- pdxleif has joined. 21:03:54 -!- Lymia has joined. 21:06:10 <int-e> @tell oerjan Indeed, I've disabled @seen because I suspect it of leaking memory. 21:06:10 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 21:06:17 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:10:54 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 21:11:43 -!- fractal has joined. 21:12:15 -!- mbrcknl_ has joined. 21:13:27 -!- int-e_ has joined. 21:13:36 -!- heroux_ has joined. 21:13:42 -!- int-e has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:13:45 -!- v4s has joined. 21:13:50 -!- int-e_ has changed nick to int-e. 21:14:00 <int-e> . o O ( So Taneb doesn't like my way of thinking?! Pity... ) 21:14:05 <Taneb> :P 21:14:09 -!- digitalcold has joined. 21:14:15 -!- mbrcknl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:14:32 -!- mbrcknl_ has changed nick to mbrcknl. 21:14:56 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 21:16:02 -!- MDream has joined. 21:18:10 -!- skarn has joined. 21:18:13 -!- shikhout has joined. 21:18:21 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:18:21 -!- digitalc1ld has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:18:21 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:18:24 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:18:27 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:18:42 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:18:42 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 21:19:48 -!- MDude has joined. 21:20:13 -!- Deewiant has joined. 21:20:14 -!- Froox has joined. 21:24:18 -!- kline has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:24:53 -!- yiyus_ has joined. 21:25:50 -!- kline has joined. 21:29:02 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:29:03 -!- MDream has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:30:00 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:30:19 -!- mtve- has joined. 21:31:21 -!- mhi^_ has joined. 21:31:44 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 21:32:17 -!- myndzl has joined. 21:36:02 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:36:04 -!- mhi^ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:36:10 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:37:37 -!- notfowl has changed nick to fowl. 21:44:39 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:44:39 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 21:44:39 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:45:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:47:49 -!- zemhill__ has quit (*.net *.split). 21:48:52 -!- izabera_ has changed nick to izabera. 21:52:16 -!- zemhill__ has joined. 22:37:22 <newsham> https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator 22:46:48 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:57:31 -!- Sprocklem_ has changed nick to Sprocklem. 22:58:32 -!- gamemanj has joined. 23:02:31 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 23:08:04 -!- boily has joined. 23:28:47 -!- APic\spl1t has joined. 23:30:43 -!- APic\splat has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:42:25 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:59:16 -!- ocharles_ has joined. 2015-06-21: 00:03:10 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:03:25 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:04:58 -!- Herbalist has joined. 00:05:41 -!- edwardk has joined. 00:11:33 <boily> Warrigal: Warrighello. back to your old nick? 00:12:04 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to tswett. 00:12:09 <tswett> What old nick? What are you talking about? 00:12:33 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 00:12:33 -!- tswett has joined. 00:13:28 <boily> `? warrigal 00:13:29 <HackEgo> warrigal? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:15:26 <oren2> `? tswett 00:15:28 <HackEgo> tswett is livin' it up with the penguins 00:16:03 <boily> helloren2. 00:16:11 <boily> why the penguins? 00:16:18 <tswett> `le/rn warrigal/#esoteric's resident dingo. Sometimes pretends to be a human. 00:16:21 <HackEgo> Learned «warrigal» 00:16:25 <tswett> Because I live in Antarctica. 00:16:44 <tswett> Due to what one might call (no pun intended) a series of unfortunate events. 00:16:46 <oren2> I'm the same oren2 but I forgot to turn off my other computer and can't do so remoterl 00:17:14 <oren2> eh, i guess it's fine 00:17:27 <oren2> tswett 00:17:41 <oren2> do you work in a weather base? 00:18:09 <tswett> You see, I was born in Australia, and went to school in Finland. A couple of mistakes and corner cases led to my Australian citizenship being terminated while I was only considered a visiting student in Finland. 00:18:32 <tswett> I had an internship working as a mathematician at McMurdo Station in Antarctica. 00:18:42 <tswett> My internship finished, and I found that neither country wanted me back. 00:19:03 <tswett> So here I am. 00:19:35 <pikhq> How unfortunate. Now you should claim to be an Antarctic citizen. 00:21:26 <tswett> I decided to found an Antarctic state while I'm here. 00:21:34 <tswett> The "Republic of Antarctica", which you might have heard of. 00:21:48 -!- Froo has joined. 00:22:08 <tswett> So far we haven't received diplomatic recognition by any country except Switzerland. 00:23:13 * gamemanj can't tell if it's a joke 00:25:51 -!- oren2 has changed nick to o-rin. 00:26:09 <o-rin> ah this one isn't being used 00:27:52 <boily> tswett: uhm. seriously twh? 00:28:03 <tswett> `? twh 00:28:04 <HackEgo> twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 00:28:12 <boily> hell~lo~riiin! 00:28:13 <tswett> What would help? 00:28:27 <tswett> `? hand 00:28:29 <HackEgo> A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. 00:28:35 <boily> tswett: clarifying if you're serious or not. or even if Switzerland is serious or not. 00:28:45 <tswett> Switzerland is pretty serious. 00:29:01 <boily> o-rin: sorry about creatively porthelloing your nick. I can't help but have yuru yuri's opening playing in my head. 00:29:20 <tswett> Anyway, my resume only mentions locations within the United States, so I'm probably making this all up. 00:29:25 <o-rin> 今ボアリは 00:30:12 <boily> はい？ 00:30:21 <boily> tswett: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Democratic_Penguin%27s_Republic_of_Antarctica 00:30:28 -!- yiyus has joined. 00:31:37 <boily> o-rin: oui? que? quoi? mais qu'est-ce? se pourrait-il que? do you beliiiieve in love at first sight ♪ 00:32:01 -!- myndzi has joined. 00:32:04 <gamemanj> *uses g.t.* "Now Boari is"? 00:32:09 -!- mbrcknl_ has joined. 00:32:21 <boily> gamemanj: yes. I'm quite confused there. 00:32:32 <pikhq> o-rin: 「ボアリ」って？ 00:32:56 <boily> pikhq: 僕は「ボアリ」です 00:34:02 <pikhq> でも発音が「ボイリー」だと思った。 00:34:10 -!- APic\splat has joined. 00:34:15 -!- o-rin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:34:25 -!- ocharles_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:34:26 -!- myndzl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:34:33 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:34:33 -!- APic\spl1t has quit (*.net *.split). 00:34:33 -!- yiyus_ has quit (*.net *.split). 00:34:33 -!- skarn has quit (*.net *.split). 00:34:33 -!- v4s has quit (*.net *.split). 00:34:33 -!- mbrcknl has quit (*.net *.split). 00:35:02 -!- o-rin has joined. 00:35:02 <o-rin> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUT8hkJbmEM 00:35:54 <boily> pikhq: フランス語で姓です 00:36:04 <pikhq> なるほど。 00:36:15 <boily> そうですよ 00:38:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:38:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:38:35 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:39:13 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:39:17 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:39:17 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:39:49 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:39:53 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:39:53 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:40:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:40:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:40:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:41:07 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:41:11 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:41:11 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:42:13 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:42:17 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:42:17 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:42:49 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:42:53 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:42:53 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:43:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:43:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:43:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:44:01 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:44:05 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:44:05 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:45:05 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:45:09 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:45:09 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:46:10 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:46:14 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:46:15 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:46:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:46:58 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:46:58 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:47:37 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:47:41 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:47:41 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:48:33 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:48:37 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:48:37 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:49:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:49:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:49:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:50:01 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:50:05 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:50:05 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:50:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:50:49 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:50:49 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:51:28 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:51:32 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:51:32 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:52:01 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:52:05 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:52:06 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:52:40 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:52:44 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:52:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:53:21 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:53:22 -!- glogbot has joined. 00:53:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:53:26 -!- esowiki has joined. 00:54:19 -!- hjulle has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:56:03 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 00:56:12 <hppavilion1> Hi 00:57:10 <hppavilion1> Anyone out there? 00:57:18 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:57:36 <o-rin> hello 00:58:28 -!- gamemanj has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:58:48 <hppavilion1> There's someone 00:59:01 <hppavilion1> I'm on a tablet 00:59:17 <hppavilion1> Because my laptop broke :, 00:59:21 <hppavilion1> ( 01:03:44 <boily> helloppavilion1! what kind of tablet is it? 01:04:06 <hppavilion1> Samsung 01:04:08 <boily> also, what laptop? how did it break? what's your stance about roast beef? 01:04:12 <hppavilion1> Hp 01:04:19 <hppavilion1> Not sure 01:04:39 <hppavilion1> I agree with little piggy #3 01:05:44 <hppavilion1> perl -wlne'END{print$n}eof&&$n++;/<title>([^<]+)/i&&$n--' * 01:06:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[A:;]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43250&oldid=39599 * 73.184.106.177 * (+0) changed order 01:12:13 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:18:10 -!- Walpurgisnacht has joined. 01:19:20 <Walpurgisnacht> E^2 = (mc^2)^2 +(pc^2)^2 is crazy 01:24:51 <boily> it's an equation. it shouldn't be crazy. Taneb probably has invented it. 01:28:47 <tswett> Walpurgisnacht: I conclude that (pc^2)^2 = 0. 01:28:54 <tswett> Whatever p is. 01:29:26 <tswett> Indeed, I thus conclude that p = 0. 01:29:33 <Walpurgisnacht> Its the full equation or almost complete equation of e = mc^2 01:29:56 <boily> tswett: it's not required that p = 0. what if you have a zero divisor? 01:30:11 <tswett> boily: then your physics is weird. 01:30:34 <boily> s/weird/fun/ 01:30:45 <Walpurgisnacht> P = the momentum of the object in question twsett 01:32:34 <Walpurgisnacht> Oh and uhm e^2 = (mc^2)^2 + (pc)^2 not pc^2^2 01:32:40 -!- hjulle_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:32:47 <Walpurgisnacht> I messed up a bit 01:35:12 -!- o-rin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:36:05 <tswett> So in other words, E^2 = (mc^2)^2 + (mvc)^2, where v is the speed of the object, so E^2 = (mc)^2 (c^2 + v^2), so E = mc sqrt(c^2 + v^2). 01:36:07 <tswett> Right? 01:36:21 <Walpurgisnacht> Yes 01:36:55 <Walpurgisnacht> But I made that a bit shorter 01:37:12 <Walpurgisnacht> Or well Einstein did I just didnt want to type it out 01:38:39 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 01:38:46 <hppavilion1> I'm back 01:39:06 <Walpurgisnacht> Back from what 01:39:23 <hppavilion1> Lack of inrernet 01:39:36 <Walpurgisnacht> Who are you 01:39:37 <hppavilion1> *internet 01:39:39 <tswett> Wait, I might not be right. I'm assuming that momentum is mass times speed. 01:39:51 <hppavilion1> On a tablet 01:40:12 <Walpurgisnacht> Mhm 01:40:33 <tswett> Walpurgisnacht: so is m here the rest mass or the relativistic mass? 01:40:59 <Walpurgisnacht> Relativistic mass 01:41:10 <hppavilion1> How's this esolang related? 01:41:38 <tswett> Oh look, here it is. 01:41:39 <tswett> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy%E2%80%93momentum_relation 01:41:52 <Walpurgisnacht> I'm not genetically related to anyone in the esolang community that I know of 01:42:24 <tswett> E^2 = (pc)^2 + (mc^2)^2, where m is rest mass, E is total energy, and p is the magnitude of the momentum. 01:43:12 <Walpurgisnacht> Oops yeah I got it wrong 01:47:12 -!- llue has joined. 01:47:49 <tswett> `` where is ais523 01:48:00 <HackEgo> bash: where: command not found 01:48:41 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:49:48 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 01:50:55 <tswett> `rm /dev/zero 01:50:55 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/dev/zero': Read-only file system 01:51:28 <tswett> `ls 01:51:28 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ script.py \ selflink \ 01:51:47 <tswett> `` mkdir ' ' 01:51:48 <HackEgo> No output. 01:52:46 <tswett> `` mkdir ' \'; mkdir '\ '; mkdir ' \ ' 01:52:46 <HackEgo> No output. 01:52:59 <tswett> `ls 01:53:00 <HackEgo> ​ \ \ \ \ \ :-( \ \ \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ scr 01:53:03 <tswett> Much better, see? 01:53:34 <tswett> `` rmdir ' ' ' \' '\ ' ' \' 01:53:35 <HackEgo> rmdir: failed to remove ` \\': No such file or directory 01:54:04 <tswett> `` rmdir ' \ ' 01:54:05 <HackEgo> No output. 01:54:23 <tswett> `file blah 01:54:26 <HackEgo> blah: ASCII text 01:54:30 <tswett> `cat blah 01:54:31 <HackEgo> hi 01:54:39 <tswett> `run cat blah > 'blah \ blah' 01:54:41 <HackEgo> No output. 01:54:42 <tswett> `ls 01:54:43 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ blah \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ script.py 01:54:47 <tswett> Even better. 01:54:56 <tswett> Now people will wonder why there are three files called "blah". 01:56:09 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:56:10 <olsner> :D 01:57:21 * boily gives tswett an honourary golden mapole 02:03:28 <boily> `random_elliott 02:03:28 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: random_elliott: not found 02:03:36 <boily> `` cat random_elliott 02:03:37 <HackEgo> elliott \ a \ b \ c \ d \ e \ f \ g \ h \ i \ j \ k \ l \ m \ n \ o \ p \ q \ r \ s \ t \ u \ v \ w \ x \ y \ z 02:03:41 <boily> ...??? 02:03:54 <boily> @ask elliott what the random is it? 02:03:54 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 02:04:07 <pikhq> @seen elliott 02:04:07 <lambdabot> el|Io7T 02:04:36 <olsner> @seen olsner 02:04:36 <lambdabot> O|sn3r 02:04:47 <olsner> @help seen 02:04:47 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands 02:05:07 <olsner> @help leet 02:05:07 <lambdabot> elite <phrase>. Translate English to elitespeak 02:05:27 <boily> @seen chicken 02:05:28 <lambdabot> CHicxEN 02:05:49 * boily mapoles lambdabot “don't you dare defile the Name of Our CHICKEN” 02:06:38 <tswett> @seen Whatever the output of this command is, I will name my first child. 02:06:38 <lambdabot> \/\/|-|A+EVeR teh OUTpu+ of 7Hiz0rz Co/\/\m4nd I$, I \/\/i1l NAmE my phirst ChIld. 02:10:03 -!- Walpurgisnacht has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:10:35 <boily> Phirst Swett. 02:13:18 <tswett> Hmm. There's a certain decision that computer programmers make frequently. 02:15:02 <tswett> Namely, whether the current stage of a process should be represented using a state variable, or by where the execution pointer is. 02:21:53 <Phantom_Hoover> is the latter not a subset of the former 02:30:41 <boily> fizzie: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 02:30:54 <boily> fizzie: please refungot the chännel! 02:37:33 -!- o-rin has joined. 02:37:41 <Sgeo> "In UNIX operating systems you can leave files called -r and -f on the filesystem. If you then call rm * then rm cannot distinguish between the files -r and -f and does a recursive delete leaving only -r and -f. This is because it's the shell that expands the arguments." 02:37:45 * Sgeo WTFs at UNIX 02:37:47 <o-rin> damned rural internet 02:38:03 <Sgeo> I guess Tcl is similar 02:38:21 <Sgeo> Although most Tcl commands allow a -- which means don't assume the remaining arguments are options 02:38:54 <o-rin> most shell commands (the gnu versions anyway) do too 02:39:27 <boily> o-rin: is that how you can grep for a pattern that begins with ‘-’? I'm always having trouble with that. 02:40:27 <o-rin> not sure 02:41:26 <tswett> Phantom_Hoover: in most programming languages, the execution pointer is not exposed as a variable. 02:41:36 <tswett> Sgeo: well, how would you change Unix so that it doesn't do that? 02:41:52 <Sgeo> I'd endorse non-UNIX, I think 02:42:22 <Sgeo> Some clean distinction between options and non-option arguments, more like Racket keyword arguments 02:42:29 <Sgeo> Than like CL keyword arguments 02:42:37 <pikhq> o-rin: That's not just the GNU versions. 02:42:38 <tswett> I think that's a good idea. 02:42:52 <pikhq> That is incredibly ancient Unix. 02:42:59 <pikhq> IIRC it predates C. 02:43:18 <boily> nothing can predate C. 02:43:43 <Sgeo> B, and before that A... I mean BCPL 02:43:57 <pikhq> To be specific, BTW: getopt has the behavior that option processing stops with "--". 02:44:13 -!- supay has joined. 02:44:17 <pikhq> And POSIX getopt BUT NOT GNU GETOPT has the behavior that option processing stops with the first non-option. 02:44:52 <tswett> `run rm . -r 02:44:53 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove directory: `.' 02:45:01 <Sgeo> "B continues to see use (as of 2014)..." 02:45:05 <tswett> `run rm -r . 02:45:06 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove directory: `.' 02:45:08 <tswett> `ls 02:45:09 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ blah \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ script.py 02:45:35 <tswett> `run rm bin -r 02:45:39 <HackEgo> No output. 02:45:42 <tswett> `run ls bin 02:45:42 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access bin: No such file or directory 02:45:47 <tswett> `revert 02:45:52 <tswett> `run ls bin 02:46:03 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 02:46:04 <HackEgo> ​` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ ! \ ? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ ؟ \ ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ \ \ \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ as86 \ aseen \ benvenuto \ bf \ bienvenido \ botsnack \ bseen \ buttsnack \ calc \ cAt \ CaT \ catcat \ cats \ cc \ cdecl \ c++decl \ chroot \ coins \ CoInS \ complain \ complaints 02:47:15 <pikhq> Sgeo: Apparently some mainframe happened to use B. 02:49:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:52:16 -!- Wright_ has joined. 02:52:17 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:59:15 -!- Walpurgisnacht has joined. 03:03:10 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 03:03:11 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Changing host). 03:03:11 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 03:13:54 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CONSTRUCT CHICKEN). 03:14:07 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 03:23:43 -!- MDude has joined. 03:38:16 -!- Herbalist has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:41:38 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 03:56:25 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:07:45 -!- variable has joined. 04:18:43 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:46:05 -!- Walpurgisnacht has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:12:19 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:20:11 -!- coppro has joined. 05:48:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:48:47 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:52:36 -!- password2_ has joined. 06:03:49 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:04:08 -!- heroux has joined. 06:23:56 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:31:40 -!- coppro has joined. 06:51:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:54:06 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:15:57 <oerjan> @messages-mold 07:15:57 <lambdabot> int-e said 10h 9m 47s ago: Indeed, I've disabled @seen because I suspect it of leaking memory. 07:38:37 -!- rdococ has joined. 08:04:25 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 08:25:06 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:33:36 <Taneb> Hmm 08:35:44 <Taneb> Why am I in the mood to make a really overengineered brainfuck implementation 08:37:31 <Taneb> Running on multiple computers, written in multiple languages 08:37:54 <Taneb> Possibly not brainfuck... 08:39:17 <myname> like fizzbuzz enterprise edition? 08:39:28 <Taneb> Sort of? 08:42:51 <rdococ> brainshit!!! 09:02:55 <Taneb> Oh hey, it's the solstice 09:38:24 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 09:38:43 -!- lleu has joined. 09:42:47 -!- gamemanj has joined. 09:49:42 <rdococ> I want to make a derp!!! 09:49:58 <rdococ> (what is a derp anyway?) 09:50:25 <gamemanj> (Who knows?) 09:51:06 <olsner> well, it's not a herp 09:51:06 <myname> a regular derp or a more advanced herp derp? 10:00:11 <oerjan> <-- eep 10:00:15 <oerjan> oops 10:00:20 <oerjan> <tswett> `revert <-- eep 10:01:42 <oerjan> tswett: i suspect you just undid every single symbolic link in bin. hopefully that doesn't actually break anything. 10:12:48 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:21:51 <J_Arcane> https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator 10:22:37 <oerjan> J_Arcane: your link is _so_ yesterday hth 10:22:48 <J_Arcane> *shrug* I've been busy. 10:22:55 <J_Arcane> Midsummer holiday and lots of Rust. :D 10:46:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Rust on midsummer holiday seems non-optimal.). 11:06:20 <gamemanj> Rust? As in the language or the game? 11:07:55 <myname> i hope it's tje language 11:09:42 <Taneb> I hope J_Arcane is referring to oxidized iron 11:30:18 <J_Arcane> language 12:13:04 <Taneb> I wonder if brainfuck is more easily optimizable with a prime number of possible cell values 12:13:13 <Taneb> eg 127 or 257 12:14:58 <scoofy> or 3 12:15:12 <myname> wjy should it? 12:16:14 <Taneb> Because then the cell values form a field 12:16:21 <Taneb> Which feels like it should be helpful 12:21:01 <gamemanj> So... Magic, then. 12:22:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:26:27 -!- FireFly has quit (Changing host). 12:26:27 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:29:38 -!- SopaXT has joined. 12:30:28 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:41:59 -!- GeekDude has joined. 12:46:18 -!- llue has joined. 12:46:37 -!- llue has quit (Changing host). 12:46:37 -!- llue has joined. 12:48:50 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:59:00 -!- supay has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:02:27 -!- v4s has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:02:27 -!- ocharles_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:02:27 -!- skarn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:02:27 -!- Wright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:02:29 -!- PinealGl1ndOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:04:26 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:04:31 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:04:31 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:05:26 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:05:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:05:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:06:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:06:30 -!- glogbot has joined. 13:06:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:06:35 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:09:43 <rdococ> netsplit 13:14:06 -!- ocharles__ has changed nick to ocharles_. 13:15:53 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 13:16:03 -!- tromp__ has joined. 13:16:24 -!- augur_ has joined. 13:17:06 -!- aretecode has changed nick to 7GHAAH82E. 13:17:54 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:18:02 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 13:18:23 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:18:43 -!- aretecode has joined. 13:18:52 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:18:52 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:18:53 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:19:21 -!- 7GHAAH82E has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:19:21 -!- lemurian has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:21:11 -!- supay_ has quit. 13:23:14 -!- supay_ has joined. 13:26:14 -!- supay_ has quit (Client Quit). 13:27:22 -!- supay has joined. 13:31:55 -!- aloril has joined. 13:33:06 -!- MDream has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:40:50 -!- nys has joined. 14:15:33 -!- gniourf has joined. 14:19:16 -!- newsham has joined. 14:48:51 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 14:51:04 -!- aretecode has joined. 14:52:15 -!- Wright_ has joined. 14:52:15 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:06:54 -!- fowl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:09:31 -!- fowl has joined. 15:11:34 -!- lleu has joined. 15:11:35 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 15:11:35 -!- lleu has joined. 15:12:11 -!- boily has joined. 15:13:44 -!- llue has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:22:19 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:29:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PANCAKE CHICKEN). 15:29:43 <tswett> `file bin/selflink 15:30:02 <HackEgo> bin/selflink: broken symbolic link to `selflink' 15:36:17 <olsner> hm, no fungot 16:18:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:21:20 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 16:23:46 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 16:24:04 -!- lleu has joined. 16:30:00 -!- vanila has joined. 16:32:54 -!- mhi^_ has changed nick to mhi^. 16:32:59 -!- mhi^ has quit (Changing host). 16:32:59 -!- mhi^ has joined. 16:33:04 <vanila> https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator/ 16:33:31 <vanila> https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator/raw/master/slides/the_movfuscator_recon_2015.pdf 16:33:55 <ais523> hmm, but xor only takes two arguments 16:34:00 <ais523> in most asms 16:34:11 <ais523> is this a three-arg asm? in which case, is that seriously the best way to zero eax? 16:34:35 <vanila> what is beign discussed?} 16:34:43 <ais523> the URL 16:34:46 <ais523> that you just posted 16:34:53 <vanila> ooh 16:35:11 <vanila> the guy encoded everything with MOV instruction :D 16:35:18 <vanila> brianfuck in mov 16:35:27 <vanila> lcc backend 16:36:45 <ais523> there's a wireworld computer that works like that 16:37:12 <ais523> (wireworld isn't TC in finite space) 16:38:09 -!- b_jonas_ has changed nick to b_jonas. 16:39:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:41:21 <vanila> oh 16:41:24 <vanila> LITERALLY the URL 16:41:26 <vanila> lol 16:41:29 <vanila> I get it 16:41:41 <ais523> yes, the URL itself, not the page at the destination 16:41:44 <vanila> haha 16:41:56 <ais523> "xor eax, eax" is an x86ism for zeroing eax, because it has a short encoding 16:41:57 <vanila> xoreaxeax was probably taken 16:42:55 <shachaf> xor eax, eax even works on amd64 16:45:13 <ais523> shachaf: well yes, amd64 is backwards-compatible 16:45:21 <shachaf> I mean, it clears rax on amd64. 16:45:40 <ais523> I was going to ask, what does it do to the top half of rax? 16:45:59 <ais523> IIRC it gets zeroed whenever you do anything that only mentions the bottom half? or is it eax specifically you have to mention? 16:46:18 <shachaf> I think it's any register that only addresses the bottom half. 16:46:32 <vanila> You shoudl read the slides 16:46:35 <vanila> it's really funny 16:46:45 <shachaf> So when you change ax half of eax stays the same but half of rax gets zeroed. 16:48:43 <shachaf> imo a bit of a scow 16:50:05 -!- ais523 has changed nick to r. 16:50:09 -!- r has changed nick to ais523. 16:50:43 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 16:52:41 <vanila> is subleq self modifying code? 16:52:51 <vanila> must it use self modification to be TC? 16:56:45 <tswett> Pretty sure it must self-modify, yeah. 16:57:55 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:57:59 <tswett> Hey, have some random Unicode characters. 16:58:41 <tswett> [U+0080 LITIRE DOLOTITINTERCAL] [U+0006 LITIN THETIINTITERIS] [U+0003 LITIN INTERCAL LETTER A] [U+2000 AAALAG DIND] [U+0029 LITIN DACE] [U+0069 LITIN STAL] [U+2034 SMALL TITE STALL] [U+0068 LATIN TINT TINTENTERCAL] 16:58:57 <tswett> I don't know why so many of them contain the word "LITIN". 17:09:01 <int-e> lots of intercal 17:15:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mov]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43251 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+2000) created article about MOV 17:17:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mov]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43252&oldid=43251 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+30) Category:Esoteric subset 17:19:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:Esoteric subset]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43253 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+96) Created category page 17:19:32 <ais523> uh-oh 17:19:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Swearjure]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43254&oldid=42009 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+30) [[Category:Esoteric subset]] 17:19:36 <ais523> someone created a new category 17:19:47 <ais523> do we have to yell at them now? 17:19:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[JSFuck]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43255&oldid=42019 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+29) 17:21:42 <Taneb> It is against wiki policy to create new categories without discussion 17:27:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Cluid Zhasulelm]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43256&oldid=42054 * Cluid Zhasulelm * (+121) added article and wiki 17:30:10 <ais523> Taneb: I know 17:32:14 <Taneb> ais523, I am saying, yes, they should be yelled at 17:34:14 <shachaf> `wisdom 17:34:31 <HackEgo> spim/SPIM Pretends It's MIPS 17:34:43 <shachaf> MIPS Is Pretend SPIM 17:34:50 <shachaf> Taneb: invent anything good lately? 17:35:20 <nys> `yell 17:35:21 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: yell: not found 17:35:35 <Taneb> shachaf, well, have you heard of Apache Thrift? 17:35:43 <shachaf> yes 17:35:55 <Taneb> Yes. 17:36:29 <shachaf> You invented Apache Thrift? 17:38:16 <Taneb> I'm not saying I didn't 17:38:32 <shachaf> typical 17:39:53 <Taneb> shachaf, more seriously, I'm going to be doing some research involving Apache Swift over the summer 17:40:08 <shachaf> Is that a cross between Apache Thrift and Apple Swift? 17:40:26 <Taneb> I keep saying Swift instead of Thrift 17:40:38 <Taneb> I blame my speech impediment which may or may not exist 17:41:10 <shachaf> What sort of research? 17:41:25 <shachaf> also will you be doing REsearch or reSEARCH? 17:41:34 <Taneb> I think the latter 17:42:00 <Taneb> But it's a sort of guided project to let undergraduates (me) get a taste of research 17:42:08 <Taneb> I don't know the direction it'll take until Wednesday 17:44:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:47:35 <oerjan> <Taneb> I wonder if brainfuck is more easily optimizable with a prime number of possible cell values <-- yes i think so, it removes the special cases where a loop increment has a common factor with the cell size 17:47:56 <shachaf> `wisdom 17:47:59 <HackEgo> grue/grue is the colour of the trees and the ocean 17:48:26 <oerjan> e.g. [-->+<] for 256 cell values needs to distinguish whether the tested cell is odd or even 17:49:56 <oerjan> while for a prime number it indeed turns into a simple field division by 2 17:58:30 <oerjan> <ais523> do we have to yell at them now? <-- yes, you do hth 17:59:02 <ais523> oerjan: hey, you're an admin too! 17:59:19 <oerjan> yes but you mentioned it first hth 17:59:32 <ais523> but we added the rule after observing graue enforcing it, and not wanting other people to be caught out the same way 17:59:49 * oerjan considers laughing maniackally 18:00:04 <ais523> so the question is 18:00:12 <ais523> if nobody really wants to enforce it, does it still exist? 18:00:41 <oerjan> yes hth 18:01:19 <oerjan> do make it not exist, someone has to propose deleting it hth 18:01:41 <oerjan> clearly we cannot have weaker rules for policies than categories. 18:03:13 <ais523> ? 18:03:18 <ais523> I thought the category rule was our /only/ rule 18:03:25 <ais523> err, other than copyright and similar legal stuff 18:03:38 <oerjan> no, we also have the User: rule hth 18:03:47 <ais523> we actually have six 18:03:49 <ais523> just checked 18:04:53 <ais523> 1) copyright; 2) ontopic; 3) don't need notability but other people can change your work; 4) the category rule; 5) the User: rule 18:05:03 <ais523> and rule 6) which encourages you to not enforce the others ;-) 18:05:59 <shachaf> What's the User: rule? 18:06:15 <oerjan> not to hide the User: in links to user pages 18:06:22 <ais523> shachaf: if you're linking to a page in userspace, the User: bit of the link must be visible on the page 18:06:36 <ais523> I like that rule and enforce it when I see someone break it (by editing the User: bit into the link) 18:06:43 <ais523> the category rule, it's harder to see what to do if someone breaks it, though 18:07:56 * oerjan looks sternly at Taneb for turning idle just has he joined 18:08:05 <oerjan> *as 18:08:17 <Taneb> oerjan, I just don't really have much to say 18:08:47 <coppro> what's the category rule? 18:09:12 <shachaf> oerjan: he's just thrifty with his words hth 18:09:19 <oerjan> Taneb: well i'm worried that i'm speaking to people who'll never end up seeing it before they ping out 18:09:36 <ais523> coppro: don't create new categories without discussing them first and getting some level of agreement 18:09:49 <ais523> e.g. we got agreement for a "music-based" category, but nobody actually bothered to make it 18:09:53 <shachaf> So? They'll just see what you said when they read the logs. 18:10:21 <oerjan> shachaf: some people do not read the logs. shocking, i know. 18:10:30 <Taneb> shachaf, I do not always read the logs 18:10:48 <shachaf> i refuse to acknowledge the existence of such folks hth 18:11:00 <ais523> incidentally, anyone know why the latest version of Ubuntu opens Abiword every time I log in? the only thing I can think of is that it's the first program in alphabetical order in /usr/share/applications 18:11:21 <coppro> apparently shachaf doesn't believe I exist 18:11:55 <ais523> nor me 18:12:11 <shachaf> ais523: What happens if you make a firster program in /usr/share/applications? 18:12:14 <ais523> actually it's very rare for me to read things said in channel when I'm not here, unless someone explicitly points them to me 18:12:18 <ais523> shachaf: not sure yet, haven't tried 18:12:18 <shachaf> What is the ppid of abiword? 18:12:23 <ais523> "ppid"? 18:12:27 <ais523> oh, parent PID? 18:12:33 <ais523> not easy to check, I keep closing it out of habit 18:12:36 <ais523> I'll check next time I log in 18:12:42 <ais523> good idea though 18:12:59 <shachaf> You can take the opportunity to make another application in /usr/share/applications. 18:13:18 <ais523> yes, the problem being that that's an OS-managed directory 18:13:36 <ais523> meaning that because I don't like breaking the OS's existing abstractions, I'll have to write a program with a name that starts earlier 18:13:43 <ais523> and then package and install it 18:14:15 <shachaf> Are you going to let an OS boss you around like that? 18:14:16 -!- Amahnda has joined. 18:15:00 <ais523> yes, because if you boss around a computer 18:15:03 <ais523> it doesn't mind, it just sometimes doesn't work 18:15:12 <ais523> because you're violating the assumptions the programmer made while programming it 18:16:14 <oerjan> ais523: just see this as an opportunity to write an AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! interpreter hth 18:16:24 <ais523> oerjan: it'd need to be GUI tohugh 18:16:25 <ais523> *though 18:16:31 <oerjan> oops 18:16:33 <ais523> because of what /usr/share/applications /is/ 18:16:39 <shachaf> It could just run in a terminal. 18:16:44 <ais523> I guess 18:17:00 <ais523> however, it's quite possible that the bug is only exposed by "the first installed program in alphabetical order is a GUI program" 18:17:09 <ais523> if it were happening to everyone, it would have been noticed by now 18:17:21 <ais523> so it must be something different about my system 18:17:23 <shachaf> "abiword" must be a pretty common first program. 18:17:44 <shachaf> I kind of doubt your hypothesis because why would something run the first program in that directory? But I don't really know. 18:18:46 <shachaf> It could be that it's a "saved session" thing, for instance, where you had Abiword running once and saved that session, and it keeps trying to restore it. 18:18:57 <shachaf> But I have no idea. 18:19:06 <ais523> shachaf: I thought it might be that, so I grepped my dotfiles for it 18:19:11 <oerjan> shell command run in that directory accidentally missing command name? 18:19:31 -!- Amahnda has quit (Ping timeout: 277 seconds). 18:19:36 <ais523> and it's not like I use it very much 18:19:47 <oerjan> `` ./* 18:19:49 <HackEgo> bash: ./:-(: Permission denied 18:20:00 <shachaf> oerjan: It's possible, but doesn't abiword look at its command line arguments? 18:20:15 <oerjan> no idea 18:20:34 <shachaf> I think you e.g. abiword olist0991.rtf 18:20:41 <Taneb> ais523, is there anything stupid in .bashrc or whatever 18:21:03 <oerjan> shachaf: is that a stealth `olist? 18:21:23 <shachaf> no hth 18:21:24 <ais523> Taneb: there's arguably stupid things in my .bashrc, but nothing that stupid 18:21:38 <ais523> also, I log into the desktop 18:21:39 <oerjan> shachaf: it has the right number... 18:21:42 <ais523> so there's no reason my .bashrc would be running 18:21:55 <shachaf> oerjan: yes, presumably this is what rich burlew would run to make the next oots strip 18:22:09 <shachaf> because abiword uses rich's text format by default if i remember correctly 18:22:14 <shachaf> which maybe i don't 18:22:19 <ais523> I don't think rich burlew makes the comics in abiword 18:22:33 <shachaf> `? rtf 18:22:43 <HackEgo> RTF stands for Rich's Text Format, invented by Rich Burlew. In addition to plain text it supports simple stick figures. 18:23:04 <ais523> oh right, I'm meant to have all of wisdom memorized now, am I? 18:23:12 <oerjan> of course 18:23:15 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/rtf 18:23:18 <HackEgo> oerjan 18:23:19 <shachaf> just oerjan 18:23:39 <oerjan> ok, you can just memorize those i added, shouldn't be more than 87% 18:24:38 <Taneb> The ones oerjan added, and the Tanebventions, and you are done 18:24:54 <ais523> Taneb: is there anything that you definitively /didn't/ invent? 18:25:03 <oerjan> i assume that stupid nitia guy is what's listed when Gregor (hey he's not even here) deleted the history 18:25:12 <oerjan> ais523: sex hth 18:25:31 <Taneb> ais523, I did not invent and have nothing to do with sex 18:25:35 <oerjan> also he probably didn't invent the cis, although who knows with time travel involved 18:25:35 <pikhq> .n 18:25:38 <pikhq> Grf. 18:25:47 <pikhq> Guest62171: Why you not Gregor? 18:26:07 <oerjan> oh a stealth Gregor 18:26:09 -!- lemurian has joined. 18:28:38 <shachaf> tried to find out who created the most wisdom entries, but it times out 18:29:14 <oerjan> shachaf: as i implied, i suspect a lot of them will have "nitia" as the oldest entry 18:29:20 <shachaf> yes 18:29:25 <shachaf> but i wanted to see anyway hth 18:29:41 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/tanebvention 18:29:43 <HackEgo> oerjan Taneb oerjan elliott oerjan oerjan FireFly oerjan boily oerjan ais523 ais523 oerjan 18:29:44 <Taneb> nitia? 18:29:52 <oerjan> ok not that one 18:30:04 <ais523> I've edited tanebvention? 18:30:27 <oerjan> ais523: that may just be `reverts 18:30:43 <oerjan> `url wisdom/tanebvention 18:30:47 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/tanebvention 18:31:28 <ais523> I thought that `revert was confused by the canary directory 18:31:30 <oerjan> you're not listed in the substantial ones 18:31:36 <ais523> right 18:31:42 <oerjan> ais523: that's recent 18:31:53 <ais523> ah yes 18:31:56 <ais523> it also still seems to wrok 18:31:58 <ais523> *work 18:32:00 <ais523> just spouts errors 18:32:07 <oerjan> also, i don't think it confuses its actual _working_, it just gives a spurious error message. 18:32:08 <ais523> not sure if we broke it permanently or if it's a transient thing 18:32:11 <oerjan> it has other bugs, though. 18:32:13 <shachaf> except when it doesn't work 18:32:21 <shachaf> e.g. when you revert creating a file or something 18:32:28 <shachaf> complete scow if you ask me 18:33:01 <oerjan> ais523: i suspect fizzie or Guest62171 just need to rm -r canary.orig, whereever that directory got stuck 18:34:16 <oerjan> i suspect there's a "cp canary .../canary.orig; ...; rm .../canary.orig" workflow where the last command broke when we made canary a directory 18:34:30 <oerjan> and has stayed broken since 18:34:46 <oerjan> because canary.orig never gets deleted by anything else 18:34:49 <shachaf> `rmdir .hg/store/data/canary.orig 18:34:50 <HackEgo> rmdir: failed to remove `.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Read-only file system 18:34:55 <ais523> oerjan: the "cp" would break too in that case, though 18:35:12 <oerjan> and as shachaf demonstrated, it cannot be done from inside the sandbox 18:35:15 <ais523> `` rm -r canary; touch canary 18:35:17 <HackEgo> No output. 18:35:20 <oerjan> ais523: well it could have been mv 18:35:25 <ais523> `` echo test > test2 18:35:27 <HackEgo> No output. 18:35:31 <ais523> `revert 18:35:33 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 18:35:35 <ais523> hmm 18:35:37 <shachaf> now we have a great state 18:35:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:35:39 <shachaf> `cat test2 18:35:39 <oerjan> ais523: um canary hasn't been a directory for some time 18:35:39 <HackEgo> cat: test2: No such file or directory 18:35:42 <shachaf> `` hg cat test2 18:35:43 <HackEgo> test 18:35:48 <ais523> oerjan: oh, someone changed it back? 18:35:59 <oerjan> i did, in the hope of getting rid of the error 18:36:16 <shachaf> does test2 exist? 18:36:17 <ais523> `` rm canary; mkfifo canary 18:36:19 <HackEgo> No output. 18:36:23 <ais523> `cat test2 18:36:24 <HackEgo> test 18:36:31 <ais523> `ls -l canary 18:36:32 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 18:36:34 <ais523> ``ls -l canary 18:36:35 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ls: not found 18:36:36 <ais523> `` ls -l canary 18:36:37 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 0 Jun 21 18:38 canary 18:36:48 <ais523> looks like the canary can't be a fifo either 18:37:01 <shachaf> `` rm canary; ln -s .hg/store/data/canary.orig canary 18:37:04 <HackEgo> No output. 18:37:21 <ais523> anyway, Guest62171: looks like I /did/ manage to permanently break/damage HackEgo from inside it (if accidentally), what do I win? 18:39:37 <shachaf> Wait, I thought I was the one who had messed it up. 18:39:42 <shachaf> Now I'm confused. 18:39:50 <oerjan> i have a hunch Guest62171 is as idle as ever. 18:39:56 <ais523> `` ls -l canary 18:39:57 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 26 Jun 21 18:39 canary -> .hg/store/data/canary.orig 18:40:05 <ais523> wait, you made the canary a symlink? 18:40:09 <shachaf> Well, just now. 18:40:10 <ais523> is the destination relevant to this? 18:40:13 <shachaf> But I made it a directory before. 18:40:15 <ais523> shachaf: normally if you tried to do that 18:40:17 <oerjan> shachaf: hm it's possible that since it's in the repository, the file gets regenerated when a proper checkout is done. 18:40:18 <ais523> it failed due to the canary check 18:40:21 <ais523> I made it a directory before too 18:40:25 <shachaf> Apparently you made it a directory in 2012? 18:40:34 <ais523> `rm canary 18:40:36 <HackEgo> No output. 18:40:39 <shachaf> I didn't know that, I made it a directory a couple of weeks ago. 18:40:40 <ais523> `` ls -l canary 18:40:42 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 26 Jun 21 18:42 canary -> .hg/store/data/canary.orig 18:40:46 <ais523> shachaf: it was about the same time 18:40:50 <ais523> we might both have been in the same discussion? 18:40:59 <ais523> `` rm canary; ls -l canary /bin/\? 18:41:01 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access canary: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access /bin/?: No such file or directory 18:41:05 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed canary | grep mkdir 18:41:07 <ais523> `` rm canary; ls -l bin/\? canary 18:41:08 <HackEgo> summary: <shachaf> ` rm canary; mkdir canary \ summary: <elliott> rm canary; mkdir canary; touch canary/hmm \ summary: <elliott> rm canary; mkdir canary; touch canary/hmm \ summary: <ais523> run rm canary && mkdir canary 18:41:09 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access canary: No such file or directory \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 372 Jun 21 02:47 bin/? 18:41:20 <ais523> `` rm canary; ln -s bin/\? canary 18:41:22 <HackEgo> No output. 18:41:27 <ais523> `` ls -l canary 18:41:27 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 5 Jun 21 18:43 canary -> bin/? 18:41:33 <ais523> OK, looks like it can be a symlink 18:41:42 <ais523> `` rm canary; ln -s canary canary 18:41:43 <HackEgo> No output. 18:41:45 <ais523> `` ls -l canary 18:41:47 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 5 Jun 21 18:43 canary -> bin/? 18:41:53 <ais523> just not a broken one 18:42:03 <ais523> or, hmm, not a circular one 18:42:15 <ais523> `` rm canary; ln -s /.nonexistent canary 18:42:16 <HackEgo> No output. 18:42:18 <ais523> `` ls -l canary 18:42:20 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 5 Jun 21 18:44 canary -> bin/? 18:42:24 <ais523> not a broken one either 18:42:34 <shachaf> Where is the source? 18:43:17 <ais523> `source 18:43:18 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: source: not found 18:43:29 <shachaf> Oh, right, bitbucket. 18:44:25 <shachaf> https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/src/tip/multibot_cmds/lib/revert 18:44:53 <oerjan> all this is rather moot until either fizzie or Gregor reactivates. fizzie already promised to have a look. 18:45:53 <shachaf> `mkdir canary.orig 18:45:54 <HackEgo> No output. 18:45:57 <shachaf> `rmdir canary.orig 18:45:57 <HackEgo> No output. 18:46:29 <shachaf> oh well 18:46:52 <shachaf> `touch canary.orig 18:46:53 <oerjan> i suspect canary.orig is not and never has been in the actual /hackenv/ directory. 18:46:53 <HackEgo> No output. 18:47:03 <shachaf> `rm canary.orig 18:47:05 <HackEgo> No output. 18:47:18 <ais523> " Finding Turing-completeness in unlikely places has long been a pastime of bored computer scientists" 18:47:39 <ais523> (from the paper that describes the algorithm that movfuscator implements) 18:48:07 <vanila> yeah hehe 18:48:22 <shachaf> `touch file.orig 18:48:23 <HackEgo> No output. 18:48:29 <oerjan> no one can accuse us of not following tradition 18:48:39 <vanila> :) 18:48:48 <vanila> mov is turing complete 18:48:56 <shachaf> `rm file.orig 18:48:57 <HackEgo> No output. 18:49:10 * oerjan wonders wtf shachaf is trying to do 18:49:27 <shachaf> `revert 18:49:28 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 18:49:51 <shachaf> `` ls file.orig 18:49:51 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access file.orig: No such file or directory 18:50:52 <shachaf> `mk canary.orig//hi 18:50:54 <HackEgo> canary.orig 18:51:23 <oerjan> ...i thought HackEgo ignored empty files, but touch file.orig showed up in the browser. 18:51:39 <shachaf> How does .hg/store/data work? 18:51:48 <oerjan> it's a wonder it hasn't collapsed a long time ago. 18:52:10 <oerjan> shachaf: by being outside the sandbox, for a start? 18:52:36 <shachaf> Ignoring the sandbox, what is it supposed to do? 18:53:12 <oerjan> an excellent question. next question please... 18:53:19 * oerjan should probably eat some. 18:53:51 * Taneb too 18:54:11 <shachaf> OK, so the problem wasn't caused by canary being a directory, it was caused by making files inside that directory. 18:55:06 <ais523> aha 18:55:06 <Taneb> shachaf, btw I can get to SF and back for £300 or so 18:55:26 <ais523> shachaf: it's recursively copying the canary, then non-recursively deleting it? 18:55:42 <shachaf> Or maybe it was caused by there being files inside canary.orig. 18:55:55 <shachaf> I should figure out how mercurial works before making these claims. 18:56:28 <vanila> anyone see thaht mov based obfuscator? 18:56:51 <vanila> there's a crackme in there 18:56:52 <ais523> vanila: it was linked earlier 18:56:57 <vanila> looks hard to solve 18:57:03 <ais523> I saw there was a file named crackme but I don't know what that is 18:57:13 <vanila> ais523, it's a program that wants a password 18:57:23 <vanila> and you're supposed to try to figure out the password from the binary 18:57:30 <ais523> right 18:57:40 <vanila> but it was compiled with lcc to mov instructions 18:57:42 <ais523> in theory it could implement a cryptohash 18:57:55 <vanila> so you have to decode mov instructions somehowe 18:57:58 <ais523> although for it to be an interesting problem, it probably doesn't 18:58:55 <gamemanj> Maybe have HB fetch it... 18:59:25 <vanila> it's hard to reverse engineer 19:02:58 <gamemanj> Actually, I'll take a chance and run it... *WARN: NOT GOOD SECURITY PRACTICE* 19:03:44 <vanila> gamemanj? 19:03:53 <shachaf> Looks like the canary problem is unsolvable without rewriting history hth 19:03:57 <shachaf> s/L/l/ 19:04:09 <gamemanj> vanila? 19:04:22 <vanila> what are you talking aboutL? 19:04:49 <gamemanj> (The crackme, what else) 19:06:29 <shachaf> Well, or better, rewriting `revert to exclude .hg 19:07:15 <oerjan> shachaf: wat 19:07:45 <shachaf> `revert searches hackenv for files ending in .orig 19:07:51 <shachaf> But it also searches .hg for them 19:08:33 <shachaf> And .hg/store/data/canary.orig/....i just means that there was ever a canary.orig directory with files in it in the repository. 19:09:22 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:10:31 <oerjan> <oerjan> it's a wonder it hasn't collapsed a long time ago. 19:10:55 <shachaf> fizzie: ☝ you just need to fix `revert hth 19:20:42 -!- password2_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:23:19 -!- lleu has joined. 19:35:45 -!- Andrej_T_ has joined. 19:44:53 <myname> name a simple 1d language with few tokens but at least some of them larger than one character 19:45:25 <fowl> Ook 19:45:40 <ais523> in Ook they're all the same length though 19:45:52 <ais523> does Forte count? it might be a bit too complex though 19:46:01 <fowl> At least some of them are larger than one char 19:46:42 <Taneb> myname, BIT, Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 19:47:05 <ais523> fowl: I know, it fits the letter of the request, but might not fit for what myname intended to ask 19:47:16 <ais523> normally I try to come up with a useful answer rather than a literal one 19:47:21 <ais523> (unless the literal answer is /really/ amusing) 19:47:26 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:47:50 <ais523> because I assume the question is in the context of testing a lexer framework (it is possible that the lexer framework in question is myname's brain) 19:48:06 <myname> ais523: you are absolutely right 19:48:20 <myname> except the brain part 19:48:57 <ais523> I said that was possible, not that it was certain 19:49:08 <ais523> i.e. I was generalizing the assumption to not require the lexer framework to be computer-based 19:49:25 <ais523> myname: is this similar to lex in the way it works / the input you give it? or is it entirely different? I can believe either 19:49:28 <myname> bit may be possible 20:06:07 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:09:52 <vanila> yo ucould make a esolang that's just mov 20:10:01 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:10:11 <ais523> vanila: the wireworld computer is that, bascially 20:10:19 <vanila> ah... 20:12:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 20:16:14 <tswett> myname: well, there's Al Dente. 20:16:42 <tswett> Widely agreed to be the best esolang ever created. 20:17:38 <myname> define widely 20:18:10 <tswett> I mean that that fact has been asserted by at least one person who is physically larger than the average person. 20:19:02 <tswett> The lexical stuff is defined by the following paragraph from the wiki: 20:19:03 <tswett> An Al Dente program consists of a sequence of tokens, optionally separated by whitespace. A token is a brace, a parenthesis, a semicolon, a period, or a case-sensitive sequence of English letters. A sequence of letters beginning with an uppercase letter is a class identifier; a sequence of letters beginning with a lowercase letter is a variable, unless it is one of the keywords "matches", "requires", "excludes", "and", or "or". Letter sequences must 20:19:03 <tswett> be separated by whitespace. Whitespace has no significance besides separating tokens. 20:31:56 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 20:34:25 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 20:34:28 <hppavilion1> Hia 20:34:40 <ais523> hi 20:35:20 <Taneb> `relcome hppavilion1 20:35:23 <HackEgo> ​hppavilion1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 20:36:35 <hppavilion1> I know 20:36:39 <hppavilion1> I've been here before 20:39:10 <vanila> wmelcombe back hppavilion1 20:39:11 <vanila> wha'ts up? 20:39:15 <Taneb> `relcome ais523 20:39:19 <HackEgo> ​ais523: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 20:39:27 <ais523> Taneb: you do know I have colours filtered, right? 20:39:38 <Taneb> `relcome ais523 20:39:39 <HackEgo> ​ais523: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 20:39:47 * Taneb relcomes harder 20:39:58 <hppavilion1> ... 20:40:03 <hppavilion1> Oh 20:40:05 <hppavilion1> relcomes 20:41:41 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:41:58 <ais523> Taneb: :-( 20:42:06 <Taneb> `relcome ais523 20:42:07 <HackEgo> ​ais523: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 20:42:13 <vanila> please don't spam with the bot 20:42:14 <Taneb> (sorry, I'll stop now) 20:42:39 -!- hilquias has joined. 20:42:44 <ais523> Taneb: too many stupid welcome variants is part of the reason I left #esoteric last time 20:42:53 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 20:42:56 <hppavilion1> I'm back 20:42:58 <myname> what 20:42:59 <vanila> hi 20:43:03 <hppavilion1> I restarted my browser 20:43:10 <vanila> what's up 20:43:12 <hppavilion1> Nothin 20:43:17 <vanila> any esolang stuff going on 20:43:22 <hppavilion1> Hm 20:43:34 <hppavilion1> Well I'm making a marginally-esoteric (but more useful) language 20:43:45 <hppavilion1> If you would like to contribute to its repo that'd work 20:44:05 <vanila> what sort of language is it 20:44:20 <hppavilion1> It's called PFIL 20:44:29 <hppavilion1> For Purely Functional Imperative Language 20:44:56 <hppavilion1> It's a language where you can do black magic like define functions that behave like complex statements 20:45:20 <hppavilion1> https://github.com/TheGloriousRepublic/Purely-Functional-Imperative-Language 20:45:28 <hppavilion1> I'm not implementing it, but I'm writing the specs 20:45:34 <vanila> interesting! 20:45:38 <hppavilion1> And Standard Libraries 20:46:47 <ais523> well, languages like OCaml have empty tuples with side effects as their command type 20:46:51 <ais523> / statement type 20:47:03 <hppavilion1> Huh 20:47:13 <hppavilion1> Interepretsting 20:47:14 <hppavilion1> :P 20:47:39 <hppavilion1> I'm going to die for that, aren't I? 20:49:13 <ais523> that seems like something pretty minor to kill over 20:49:27 <hppavilion1> Not really 20:49:42 <hppavilion1> I wish webchat made a noise when someone messaged 20:50:45 <hppavilion1> I'm trying to implement all the computable brainfuck derivatives I can in python 20:51:07 <vanila> thats a LOT 20:51:34 <ais523> I need to spec up Statistical Brainfuck at some point 20:51:37 <hppavilion1> All the ones on the Wiki 20:51:39 <hppavilion1> Oooh 20:51:42 <hppavilion1> That sounds cool 20:51:48 <hppavilion1> You know what we need more of? 20:52:03 <ais523> it's brainfuck except that it tries to interpret its input as eight different commands, then works out which is which based on things like [ and ] matching 20:52:07 <myname> brainfuck derivates? 20:52:22 <hppavilion1> That's implied 20:52:22 <ais523> the idea being that it should automatically implement as many brainfuck equivalents as possible 20:52:34 <hppavilion1> You know what we need more of that I actually need to say? 20:52:38 <ais523> if it can't figure out what the program does at all, it just prints "Hello, world!" 20:52:45 <myname> :D 20:52:52 <hppavilion1> Kewlzez 20:53:00 <hppavilion1> Esoteric Markup Languages 20:53:06 <myname> we need more kewlzez? 20:53:10 <hppavilion1> Now 20:53:12 <hppavilion1> *No 20:53:18 <hppavilion1> That's an adjective 20:53:36 <hppavilion1> We need more Esomulangs 20:53:55 <hppavilion1> (e-sow-mew-langs) 20:54:38 <hppavilion1> Anyone want to get on that? 20:55:00 <hppavilion1> If someone makes an Esoteric Markup Language, I'll try to make an Esoteric StyleSheet Language 20:55:15 <myname> hppavilion1: html? 20:55:20 <hppavilion1> No 20:55:25 <hppavilion1> An esotericer one 20:55:26 <hppavilion1> :P 20:55:34 <hppavilion1> XML isn't that esoteric anyway 20:58:05 <hppavilion1> So any ideas? 20:58:59 <vanila> i can't imagine an eso markup language 20:59:09 <vanila> is it possible? 20:59:20 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:59:21 <vanila> i gues IRC color codes are kind of esoteric 20:59:27 <hppavilion1> I can probe it's possible with a bad idea 20:59:29 <hppavilion1> *prove 20:59:33 <hppavilion1> Stupid new keyboard 20:59:35 <vanila> beacuse they're out of normal bounds chars 20:59:45 <hppavilion1> The first line is a brainfuck program 20:59:50 <hppavilion1> The rest is the text to markup 21:00:28 <hppavilion1> The value of the cell corresponding to each letter describes that the letter should be bold if n>0, else n is normal weight 21:00:45 <hppavilion1> That's a bad oen 21:00:48 <hppavilion1> *one 21:01:00 <hppavilion1> I call it BrainUp (Bold Only) 21:02:13 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:02:20 <hppavilion1> A better example would use the individual bits in a cell 21:03:03 <hppavilion1> 1: bold, 2: italics, 3: underline, 4-11: text size, 12-35: color 21:04:50 <hppavilion1> Get it? 21:05:20 <vanila> LaTeX? 21:05:34 <hppavilion1> Not really 21:05:41 <hppavilion1> I want something really weird 21:05:51 <hppavilion1> LaTeX is logical and well-thought-out 21:05:59 <hppavilion1> And it'd be hard to implement :P 21:06:24 <hppavilion1> Minecraft implements a decent one 21:06:40 <hppavilion1> Modifiers are one symbol prefixed by a section sign 21:06:46 <hppavilion1> 0-f correspond to colors 21:06:57 <hppavilion1> Another corresponds to bold 21:07:01 <hppavilion1> One to italics 21:07:04 <hppavilion1> One to underline 21:07:09 <hppavilion1> One to obfuscation 21:07:15 <hppavilion1> And one to reset the formatting 21:11:39 <hppavilion1> &ftest 21:11:41 <hppavilion1> Nope 21:12:02 <hppavilion1> ^ftest 21:12:24 <hppavilion1> ^C5,12colored text and background^C 21:12:25 <hppavilion1> Nope 21:12:28 <hppavilion1> Can't do it 21:12:30 <hppavilion1> Weird 21:17:33 <coppro> nice user name 21:21:12 <ais523> we've discussed it before now 21:21:18 <ais523> apparently it was chosen ages ago to be easy to remember 21:21:54 <hppavilion1> Interestingly, I no longer own an hP 21:21:56 <hppavilion1> *HP 21:22:04 <hppavilion1> As of yesterday 21:22:05 <hppavilion1> When it died 21:22:08 <hppavilion1> :,( 21:23:15 <ais523> are you going to change nick now? 21:23:23 <ais523> (maybe buy a new one and becoe hppavilion2?) 21:23:23 <hppavilion1> NEVAR 21:23:25 <ais523> *become 21:23:30 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:23:31 <ais523> or is this here to stay 21:23:34 <hppavilion1> UNLESS IT'S TAKEN AT SOME POINT 21:23:48 <hppavilion1> My previous hp was hppavilion2 21:23:54 <HackEgo> irrelevant info/KHL?%y9vnkM_v46$Tn`ʋxkH2gqH;!;2F(zإ2CmXW 21:23:58 <hppavilion1> Well, 1 since we count from 0 21:24:29 -!- Andrej_T_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:25:02 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:25:03 <HackEgo> døsthiswørk/yes 21:26:11 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR 21:26:13 <HackEgo> oerjan 21:26:20 <shachaf> oerjan: what's all this 21:28:18 <hppavilion1> Ugh 21:28:21 <hppavilion1> Installing Flash 21:28:57 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:29:46 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 21:34:07 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:41:30 <hppavilion1> *: Hi 21:42:07 <vanila> hi 21:42:31 <hppavilion1> Does * work like that? 21:43:40 <vanila> yes 21:45:49 <nys> quit highlightin me.. 21:46:31 <hppavilion1> Sorry 21:46:39 <hppavilion1> I was just seeing if * worked 21:46:53 <hppavilion1> Wait 21:47:07 <hppavilion1> The asterisk doesn't alert everyone every time it's used, does ti? 21:47:09 <hppavilion1> *it? 21:47:23 <hppavilion1> Hopefully it didn't go off there 21:47:33 <hppavilion1> It at least has to be padded by spaces, right? 21:47:33 <nys> dammit.. 21:47:41 <hppavilion1> I'm an idiot, aren't I? 21:48:07 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 21:48:07 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:49:02 <nys> i'm just joshin your chain 21:51:04 <hppavilion1> Oh 21:51:30 <vanila> * * *** * * 21:51:45 <nys> ding ding dingdingding ding ding 21:51:45 <hppavilion1> Morse code 21:51:52 <vanila> :D 21:51:53 <hppavilion1> WITH *s INSTEAD OF DOTS 21:52:03 <hppavilion1> AND INSTEAD OF DASHES 21:53:03 <coppro> I've invented a new kind of morse code, it's more compact 21:53:15 <hppavilion1> Is it called ASCII? 21:53:16 <coppro> what you do is get rid of all the dots and replace them with nothing, and do the same for dashes 21:53:20 <coppro> infinite compression!!1!1 21:53:25 <hppavilion1> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAH 22:14:38 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:28:22 <Sgeo_> What just happened? 22:30:39 <shachaf> `` for u in $(culprits quotes); do echo "$u"; done | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn 22:30:41 <HackEgo> ​ 328 elliott \ 314 oerjan \ 75 kmc \ 72 shachaf \ 49 ais523 \ 40 coppro \ 26 monqy \ 15 boily \ 14 GreyKnight \ 13 Phantom_Hoover \ 12 Taneb \ 11 shubshub \ 11 quintopia \ 11 Gregor \ 9 fizzie \ 8 mnoqy \ 8 FireFly \ 8 Fiora \ 8 ell 22:30:50 <shachaf> `` for u in $(culprits quotes); do echo "$u"; done | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | xargs 22:30:51 <HackEgo> 328 elliott 314 oerjan 75 kmc 72 shachaf 49 ais523 40 coppro 26 monqy 15 boily 14 GreyKnight 13 Phantom_Hoover 12 Taneb 11 shubshub 11 quintopia 11 Gregor 9 fizzie 8 mnoqy 8 FireFly 8 Fiora 8 elliott___ 7 Sgeo 7 ion 6 hagb4rd 5 ranc 5 olsner 5 elliott_ 4 RocketJSquirrel 4 Jafet 3 tswett 3 elliott__ 2 pikhq_ 2 nortti 2 22:31:01 <FireFly> Great, now I'm highlighted in lines I can't even see 22:31:31 <shachaf> Oh, right, weechat highlights you. 22:32:05 <FireFly> And mosh messes up astral unicode codepoints because glibc sucks 22:32:13 <FireFly> so the first of those lines is invisible to me 22:32:16 <shachaf> What astral codepoints? 22:32:27 <FireFly> I assumed it was that bug again 22:32:41 <FireFly> maybe it's something else this time 22:32:55 <FireFly> `` for u in $(culprits quotes); do echo "$u"; done | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | hexd 22:32:57 <FireFly> oops 22:32:59 <HackEgo> bash: hexd: command not found 22:33:01 <FireFly> `` for u in $(culprits quotes); do echo "$u"; done | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | hexdump -C 22:33:03 <HackEgo> 00000000 20 20 20 20 33 32 38 20 65 6c 6c 69 6f 74 0f 74 | 328 elliot.t| \ 00000010 0a 20 20 20 20 33 31 34 20 6f 65 72 6a 61 0f 6e |. 314 oerja.n| \ 00000020 0a 20 20 20 20 20 37 35 20 6b 6d 0f 63 0a 20 20 |. 75 km.c. | \ 00000030 20 20 20 37 32 20 73 68 61 63 68 61 0f 66 0a 20 | 72 shacha.f. | \ 00000040 20 20 20 20 34 3 22:33:05 <pikhq> How does glibc mess up astral codepoints?!? 22:33:12 <vanila> astral codepoints 22:33:18 <shachaf> It messes up their width. 22:33:22 <shachaf> wcwidth() 22:33:28 <vanila> can I see the astral codepoints? 22:33:29 <FireFly> Its wcwidth returns -1 for all of them last I checked 22:33:32 <pikhq> ... You're kidding me, right? 22:33:37 <FireFly> No. 22:33:43 <FireFly> It's supposedly fixed in the next release, I hear 22:33:52 <FireFly> After two years or so since I first heard the problem reported 22:34:01 <vanila> astral plane 22:34:03 <callforjudgement> maybe it just doesn't know? 22:34:13 <callforjudgement> (does backspace have a wcwidth of -1, btw?) 22:34:32 <vanila> var regexAstralSymbols = /[\uD800-\uDBFF][\uDC00-\uDFFF]/g; 22:35:08 <FireFly> https://github.com/keithw/mosh/issues/234 it's been an issue for at least three years 22:35:27 <pikhq> What the *ever loving fuck*. 22:35:49 <callforjudgement> vanila: that regex is matching UTF-16? 22:35:55 <callforjudgement> err, UTF-16 bytepairs? 22:36:01 <callforjudgement> that's a bizarre thing to run a regex on 22:36:09 <vanila> i don't know lol 22:36:12 <shachaf> `gccrun printf("%d\n", wcwidth('\b')); 22:36:13 <HackEgo> ​-1 22:36:30 <shachaf> But that's not special to backspace, it's just because it's not a printable character or something. 22:37:22 <FireFly> Soon I'll be able to see these fancy emoji on IRC, too 22:40:18 <pikhq> How in the world is glibc this broken on such a simple thing? 22:42:54 <FireFly> callforjudgement: looks like a JavaScript snippet. Which makes sense, because JS uses UCS-2 22:43:08 <pikhq> In conclusion, you should use musl. 22:43:22 <FireFly> So, matching 16-bit surrogate pairs 22:43:22 <callforjudgement> FireFly: right, so it's implementing UTF-16 on top of a UCS-2 underlying representation 22:43:25 <shachaf> `wisdom 22:43:26 <HackEgo> accounting/<BAL|FSV> = 0 22:43:28 <FireFly> Yes 22:44:30 <FireFly> It annoys me when universally bad behaviour is spec'd because of historical reasons 22:45:00 <callforjudgement> as opposed to universally bad behaviour being spec'd because this is #esoteric and we like that behaviour sometimes? 22:46:53 <shachaf> I don't think many esoteric languages are bad in the way backwards compatibility and lack of foresight and so on make things bad. 22:47:29 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:47:50 -!- heroux has joined. 22:48:01 <FireFly> callforjudgement: yes 22:49:26 <pikhq> It annoys me when someone fails to implement behavior from 14 years ago. 22:49:58 <pikhq> (U+20000 has a wcwidth of -1 in glibc. That character is *literally 14 years old*.) 22:50:33 <callforjudgement> pikhq: oh, I misread that as U+200000 and thought "isn't that out of range?" 22:50:47 <callforjudgement> was that implemented as a test character? 22:50:55 <callforjudgement> `` echo $((0x10ffff)) 22:50:56 <HackEgo> 1114111 22:51:02 <callforjudgement> I love the symmetry of that number 22:51:32 <pikhq> No, it's a CJK codepoint. 22:52:10 <shachaf> > [base n # 1114111 | n <- [2..36]] 22:52:11 <lambdabot> ["100001111111111111111","2002121021101","10033333333","241122421","35513531... 22:52:12 <vanila> '\u20000' 22:52:12 <vanila> " 0" 22:52:16 <shachaf> > filter (\s -> s == reverse s) [base n # 1114111 | n <- [2..36]] 22:52:17 <lambdabot> ["1114111"] 22:52:20 <vanila> i don't have a luck producing it in javascript 22:52:41 <pikhq> It's astral. :) 22:53:15 <shachaf> Why don't we use base 36, anyway? 22:53:36 <shachaf> > base 36 # 2^20 22:53:38 <lambdabot> "mh34" 22:53:44 <FireFly> U+2t4w 22:53:45 <shachaf> > "shachaf" ^? base 36 22:53:46 <lambdabot> Just 61995208839 22:53:53 <callforjudgement> vanila: normally if you're going astral planes, you need a capital U and 8 hex digits 22:54:06 <callforjudgement> many languages (e.g. C) define \u to take exactly 4 digits as an argument 22:54:18 <shachaf> callforjudgement: Maximal munch is an obviously superior strategy. 22:54:32 <shachaf> s/trategy/ystem/ 22:54:45 <callforjudgement> shachaf: what if you want a hex digit right after that? 22:54:48 <FireFly> Breaks backwards-compatibility with stuff like \uXXXXABC 22:54:57 <callforjudgement> C allows \u /inside an identifier/ 22:54:58 <shachaf> GHC uses \& for a length-0 escape sequence 22:55:02 <callforjudgement> no escape syntax there 22:55:11 <FireFly> shachaf: that is neat 22:55:31 <FireFly> callforjudgement: bizarre.. why does it do that? 22:55:35 <callforjudgement> Cyclexa had @ as a length-0 escape syntax 22:55:37 <FireFly> I thought only Java did that.. 22:55:41 <callforjudgement> FireFly: same reason as trigraphs 22:55:49 <shachaf> Hmm, you can also use \ \ 22:55:50 <shachaf> > "\x123\ \4" 22:55:52 <lambdabot> "\291\&4" 22:55:59 * pikhq keeps WTFing at glibc 22:56:03 <callforjudgement> because of ambiguous parsing 22:56:10 <FireFly> trigraphs at least help you write mandatory characters 22:56:38 <FireFly> you won't use \u00C8 in an identifier to make it easier to read, rather than ASCIIfying into ae or something 22:56:48 <FireFly> or A8 or whatever it is 22:56:59 <callforjudgement> FireFly: the C standards committee presumably read the IOCCC 22:57:11 <callforjudgement> because they specifically denied using \u for ASCII :-) 22:57:19 <FireFly> ... 22:57:52 <callforjudgement> but anyway, I think the purpose of trigraphs is so that you can send C programs between different systems and not be corrupted 22:57:53 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:57:56 <callforjudgement> the \u serves the same purpose 22:58:33 <pikhq> The trigraph-encoded chars have different encodings in different EBCDIC variants. 22:59:50 -!- hilquias has joined. 23:00:16 <tswett> callforjudgement: that regex matches a single Unicode character above 0xFFFF, assuming that the regex is run on "naively interpreted UTF-16". 23:00:21 <tswett> (I'm pretty sure.) 23:00:36 <callforjudgement> tswett: yes 23:00:40 <tswett> Where "naively interpreted UTF-16" is where you just pretend that every pair of bytes represents itself as a Unicode character. 23:00:51 <FireFly> Which is UCS-2, i.e. what JS uses 23:01:14 <tswett> > 'h\&' 23:01:15 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:6: 23:01:15 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at end of input 23:01:32 <FireFly> > 'h\&i' 23:01:33 <lambdabot> Syntax error on 'h 23:01:33 <lambdabot> Perhaps you intended to use TemplateHaskell 23:01:33 <lambdabot> In the Template Haskell quotation 'h 23:01:38 <tswett> > "h\&i" 23:01:39 <lambdabot> "hi" 23:01:45 <FireFly> oh. duh. 23:01:57 <tswett> Wait, a Template Haskell quotation? 23:01:59 <FireFly> [ 'too much J' 23:01:59 <tswett> Interesante. 23:02:00 <j-bot> FireFly: too much J 23:10:25 <tswett> > "\ \ \ \\ \ \\ \ \ \ \ \\ \ \\ \ " 23:10:26 <lambdabot> " \\ \\ " 23:11:54 <int-e> `? you 23:11:54 <HackEgo> you a haskell 23:13:26 <vanila> `? learn you 23:13:27 <HackEgo> learn you? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:22:41 <int-e> Oh, it's just the result of a `learn you a haskell ... kind of disappointing 23:23:16 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/you 23:23:18 <HackEgo> No output. 23:24:14 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa 23:24:22 <shachaf> I didn't actually realize where nitia came from. 23:24:23 <int-e> (but it had survived for 55 months) 23:24:54 <shachaf> do i get some sort of cluelessness points 23:25:08 <FireFly> ...care to enlighten me? 23:25:18 <shachaf> `` hg log wisdom/you 23:25:19 <HackEgo> changeset: 0:e037173e0012 \ user: HackBot \ date: Thu Feb 16 19:42:32 2012 +0000 \ summary: Initial import. 23:25:26 <FireFly> h. 23:25:28 <FireFly> ah. 23:25:45 <shachaf> this is great 23:25:52 <FireFly> It really is 23:25:55 <FireFly> `thanks nitia 23:25:56 <HackEgo> Thanks, nitia. Thitia. 23:26:22 <int-e> `cat .doorstop 23:26:23 <HackEgo> cat: .doorstop: No such file or directory 23:26:47 <int-e> `? .doorstop 23:26:47 <HackEgo> You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry. 23:26:49 <vanila> `thanks learn you 23:26:50 <HackEgo> Thanks, learn you. Thearn you. 23:27:01 <shachaf> oerjan: why didn't you tell me twhh 23:27:57 <int-e> it's so much more rewarding to figure stuff out oneself (I didn't. sigh) 23:28:39 <shachaf> `thanks for nothing, FireFly 23:28:40 <HackEgo> Thanks, for nothing, FireFly. Thor nothing, FireFly. 23:30:43 <shachaf> `hug FireFly 23:30:44 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hug: not found 23:30:48 <shachaf> @hug FireFly 23:30:48 <lambdabot> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 23:30:51 <shachaf> much better 23:30:59 <int-e> `culprits quotes 23:31:01 <HackEgo> oerjan coppro boily boily boily ais523 Taneb oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan elliott oerjan oerjan oerjan ais523 Taneb oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan int-e coppro elliott elliott oerjan oerjan elliott elliott elliott fizzie fizzie elliott_ oerjan oerjan fizzie int-e GeekD 23:32:00 <int-e> `` hg log -r 6 23:32:01 <HackEgo> changeset: 6:ccdf9cad822f \ parent: 5:63d2d701a0e1 \ parent: 4:b606d4f08d31 \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Feb 22 16:59:18 2012 +0000 \ summary: branch merge 23:32:10 <int-e> `thanks ranc 23:32:11 <HackEgo> Thanks, ranc. Thanc. 23:35:12 <shachaf> `` hg log | grep summary: | grep -v '<' 23:35:56 <HackEgo> No output. 23:36:03 <shachaf> `` hg log | grep summary: | grep -v '<' 23:36:06 <HackEgo> summary: testing manually \ summary: - \ summary: branch merge \ summary: branch merge \ summary: branch merge \ summary: branch merge \ summary: branch merge \ summary: branch merge \ summary: branch merge \ summary: branch merge \ summary: branch merge \ summary: branch merge \ summary: branch m 23:36:09 <shachaf> `thanks estin 23:36:11 <HackEgo> Thanks, estin. Thestin. 23:37:09 <shachaf> `culprits useless_file.txt 23:37:10 <HackEgo> fizzie estin 23:38:25 <int-e> `wtf wtf 23:38:25 <HackEgo> why wtf is like wtf 23:40:54 <nortti> `which wtf 23:40:55 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/wtf 23:41:01 <nortti> `cat bin/wtf 23:41:02 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ echo "why $1 is like wtf" 23:47:18 -!- vanila has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:50:43 <tswett> `thanks ants 23:50:44 <HackEgo> Thanks, ants. Thants. 23:50:46 <tswett> Yup. 23:50:49 <tswett> `bless ants 23:50:49 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bless: not found 23:50:52 <tswett> `blessyou ants 23:50:52 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: blessyou: not found 23:50:54 <tswett> `cat bin/thanks 23:50:55 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_."; 23:51:21 <tswett> `thanks springs 23:51:21 <HackEgo> Thanks, springs. Things. 23:52:25 <tswett> `thanks frglbr 23:52:26 <HackEgo> Thanks, frglbr. Trglbr. 23:53:46 <fowl> `thanks abcdefg 23:53:47 <HackEgo> Thanks, abcdefg. Thabcdefg. 23:55:00 <tswett> `run sed -e 's_Thanks_Bless you_' -e 's_/Th/_/Bl/_' -e 's_/T/_/B/_' < bin/thanks > bin/blessyou 23:55:06 <HackEgo> No output. 23:55:09 <tswett> `blessyou ants 23:55:09 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/blessyou: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/blessyou: cannot execute: Permission denied 23:55:16 <tswett> `run chmod +x bin/blessyou 23:55:18 <HackEgo> No output. 23:55:19 <tswett> `blessyou ants 23:55:19 <HackEgo> Bless you, ants. Blants. 23:55:26 <tswett> `blessyou frlgbr 23:55:27 <HackEgo> Bless you, frlgbr. Brlgbr. 23:55:36 <tswett> `thanks sed 23:55:36 <HackEgo> Thanks, sed. Thed. 23:57:32 <fowl> How do you simulate add, sub, mul, div in mov instructions 23:57:55 <tswett> I think you pretty much have two options. 23:58:18 <tswett> One, use special registers that automatically add, subtract, whatever you write to them. 23:58:25 <tswett> (The WireWorld solution.) 23:59:04 <tswett> Two, forget about performing arithmetic with words, and instead represent a number using several words. 23:59:29 <tswett> (The ByteByteJump solution.) 23:59:43 <fowl> O.o 2015-06-22: 00:00:38 <tswett> Actually, I don't think you really have to do that with ByteByteJump. 00:00:57 <tswett> But if you want to add or multiply two bytes in ByteByteJump, you have to do it using a lookup table. 00:02:28 <tswett> I was forgetting that ByteByteJump allows you to break up a word into its component bytes. 00:05:12 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:05:24 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 00:09:11 <shachaf> `learn nitia is the creator of all things. The BBC invented her. 00:09:16 <HackEgo> Learned 'nitia': nitia is the creator of all things. The BBC invented her. 00:12:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:12:54 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:20:22 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 00:21:45 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:22:27 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:22:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:27:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:29:28 <zzo38> Do you know what /HNAP1/ and /TEADevInfo/ are? 00:32:54 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:36:51 <Sgeo_> "Unicode® 9.0.5, Supplementary Private Use Area A, Block U+F3000..U+F37FF, "People Who Are Also Code Points Somehow"" 00:42:50 <zzo38> People are also code points? 00:43:28 <tswett> The best known example is probably Bill Clinton, U+F3202. 00:46:43 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 00:51:42 <Sgeo_> twitter.com/qntm 00:59:07 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 00:59:09 <hppavilion1> So 00:59:13 <hppavilion1> My drive is corrupted 01:02:29 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Client Quit). 01:02:58 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 01:04:49 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Client Quit). 01:04:59 <Sgeo_> Hardware or software problem? If hardware, my advice (that I got from others yelling at me) is to stop using it until ready to recover all data 01:05:47 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 01:06:33 <hppavilion1> :( 01:10:47 <Sgeo_> Hardware or software problem? If hardware, my advice (that I got from others yelling at me) is to stop using it until ready to recover all data 01:11:25 <shachaf> Sgeo_: Are you a hardcore PC gamer yet? 01:12:38 <Sgeo_> Most games I play these days don't use the GPU that extensively, and the one thing that will next year (Oculus Rift CV1) requires a GPU more powerful than the one in this expensive machine :( 01:19:33 <hppavilion1> I don't know what error it was 01:19:51 <hppavilion1> I already took it to the geek squad and they couldn't fix it 01:20:22 <hppavilion1> Or more accurately, couldn't recover the data 01:20:29 <hppavilion1> We're going to try somewhere else 01:20:38 <hppavilion1> Luckily I've been saving EVERYTHING on github 01:27:50 <Sgeo_> Including passwords? 01:30:11 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:32:46 -!- hppavilion1_ has joined. 01:33:21 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:33:31 <hppavilion1_> Yes 01:33:33 <hppavilion1_> Even passwords 01:33:34 <hppavilion1_> :P 01:42:02 -!- boily has joined. 01:43:02 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 01:55:37 <Sgeo_> Even the passwords? Especially the passwords! 02:00:27 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:16:38 <boily> @massages-loud 02:16:38 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages 02:25:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ASCII art/mandelbrot]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43257 * Esowiki201529A * (+2850) Created page with "<pre> .; '^e ._\ ..." 02:25:54 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SACERDOTAL CHICKEN). 02:45:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:52:01 -!- Wright has joined. 02:52:01 -!- Wright_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:52:03 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:59:01 <hppavilion1_> Sgeo_: You still on? 03:04:48 -!- hppavilion1_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:22:05 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:25:43 <tswett> Hey everyone, I think I might have stumbled upon the most important truth of the universe. 03:25:55 <zzo38> Are you sure there is such a thing? 03:25:59 <tswett> No. 03:26:43 <zzo38> Do you know how to write it down, what is what you believe is most important truth of the universe? (If so, then probably it isn't, but mention it anyways) 03:26:49 <Sgeo_> hy... dangi 03:27:11 <shachaf> zzo38: Why probably it isn't? 03:27:22 <Sgeo_> Hardware advice: Do the opposite of any hardware advice I give. 03:28:16 <zzo38> Well, that's just my opinion though. Don't let that to stop you from trying to figure out such things. 03:28:30 <tswett> Lemme try to state one aspect of it. 03:30:03 <tswett> All meaningful beliefs (regardless of whether or not they're mathematically well-defined) amount to a belief in the existence of an instance of a given class of phenomena. 03:30:08 <tswett> Furthermore, this point of view is useful. 03:30:33 <shachaf> Is existence a property? 03:31:04 <tswett> Of course, I have no right to claim that this point of view *actually is* useful. It kinda feels that way, but I have no evidence or arguments backing this feeling up. 03:31:06 <shachaf> I.e. is it true that everything exists, or that there are some things that exist and there are other things that don't exist? 03:31:54 <tswett> I'd say the former. There's no such thing as a "thing that doesn't exist". 03:32:31 <shachaf> Raymond Smullyan talks about it in _5000 B.C._ 03:35:55 <zzo38> Don't be so sure...there is the kind of physical existence, and mathematical existence, and multiverses, and whatever; and then when you come to "GOD exists" it is such unclear what "existence" even is here (as well as what "GOD" even is here, but that's not the point). 03:36:19 <nys> reminds me of reading spinoza 03:36:44 <shachaf> Is "GOD" different from other capitalizations? 03:36:57 <zzo38> I don't know. 03:37:33 <zzo38> I do that way to hope to make it clear to me at least, because I am panendeist and not like many other people's idea of "God" anyways, so I make it full caps 03:38:23 <zzo38> (I am not even an ordinary panendeist either really, I suppose...?) 03:43:32 <tswett> Y'know what, pretend I said "occurrence" instead of "existence". 03:45:07 <zzo38> O, OK. 03:45:35 <zzo38> Do you mean: "... a belief in the occurrence of an instance ..."? 03:46:09 <tswett> Yeah. 03:46:21 <zzo38> OK 03:52:07 <Sgeo_> What non-meaningful beliefs exist in the wild? 03:52:36 <tswett> Good question. 03:52:54 <tswett> Beliefs that have false presuppositions would be one example. 03:53:14 <tswett> Suppose someone believes, for no reason, that they have a daughter, and that their daughter has red hair. 03:53:37 <tswett> The belief that their daughter has red hair is non-meaningful, because they don't have a daughter. 03:53:57 <tswett> Then again, that belief, though meaningless, *does* amount to a belief in the occurrence of an instance of a given class of phenomena. 03:54:06 <tswett> That class of phenomena being "redness of hair". 03:54:18 <tswett> Or maybe I should say "rednesses of hair". 03:54:33 <zzo38> But you didn't even say about meaningless belief, so I suppose it can be OK in case some do. 03:54:40 <Sgeo_> So the meaningfulness of a belief can hinge solely on the truth-value of another belief? I'm not sure that makes sense 03:54:57 <zzo38> Sgeo_: I am not so sure either, actually...? 03:55:29 <tswett> Anyway, I'm gonna slink back into my channel and revolutionize philosophy. 03:56:05 <zzo38> OK, write some more book about philosophy. 03:56:52 <zzo38> One book I have about philosophy, one thing it says, someone said you can write a serious philosophical text consisting entirely of jokes. And they also said you can write a serious philosophical text consisting entirely of questions (without answers). 03:57:08 <zzo38> At least first one I know is possible because it has been done (the Principia Discordia). 04:11:10 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 04:11:11 -!- o-rin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:11:40 -!- o-rin has joined. 04:37:19 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 05:13:07 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:13:47 <zzo38> He who lives by the sword, dies by the gun. He who lives by the gun, dies by the _______ 05:24:26 -!- TieSoul has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 05:26:04 -!- TieSoul has joined. 05:51:10 <fowl> Government 05:53:47 <zzo38> Atomic bomb 06:21:00 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:27:10 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: [). 06:57:35 <Taneb> I need to sort out my life 06:57:42 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:57:45 <Taneb> I don't tend to do anything until I get really frustrated 06:58:50 <Taneb> Like, "why the hell am I still in bed?" or "why the hell have I not shaved in three weeks?" 07:02:42 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:13:13 -!- Melvar` has joined. 07:15:41 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:16:25 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:33:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:34:24 -!- Froo has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 07:37:36 -!- heroux_ has joined. 07:38:59 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:39:03 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 07:39:19 <oerjan> @ask tswett Just to clear something up, are you physically larger than the average person twh 07:39:19 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 07:45:10 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:45:40 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:45:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 07:45:52 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:48:30 -!- o-rin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:54:35 <oerjan> `? XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR 07:54:52 <HackEgo> XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 07:55:17 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR 07:55:23 <HackEgo> oerjan 07:55:29 <oerjan> oh hm 07:55:37 <oerjan> `cat wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR 07:55:38 <HackEgo> Who told you this? 07:55:46 <oerjan> ah 07:56:20 <oerjan> @tell shachaf <shachaf> oerjan: what's all this <-- I don't remember hth 07:56:20 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 07:57:16 <oerjan> `hg log wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR 07:57:19 <HackEgo> hg: unknown command 'log wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR' \ Mercurial Distributed SCM \ \ basic commands: \ \ add add the specified files on the next commit \ annotate show changeset information by line for each file \ clone make a copy of an existing repository \ commit commit the specified files or all outstanding changes \ d 07:57:25 <oerjan> bah 07:57:34 <oerjan> `` hg log wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR 07:57:35 <HackEgo> changeset: 5014:66f6a5ade413 \ user: HackBot \ date: Thu Oct 02 04:37:09 2014 +0000 \ summary: <oerjan> echo \'Who told you this?\' >wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR 07:57:45 <oerjan> not very illuminating 08:02:21 <oerjan> `? password 08:02:22 <HackEgo> The password of the month is 'PlayItSweetly,TakeMeDown,Oh,Jazzman' 08:02:36 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/password 08:02:39 <HackEgo> mroman oerjan oerjan oerjan mroman_ 08:04:47 <oerjan> @tell shachaf Actually, it was the password. Ask mroman_. 08:04:47 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 08:06:33 <oerjan> `` ls -l wisdom/'irrelevant info' 08:06:34 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 10485760 Apr 15 07:51 wisdom/irrelevant info 08:12:49 -!- hjulle has joined. 08:16:45 <oerjan> :t base 08:16:46 <lambdabot> (Integral a, Applicative f, Choice p) => Int -> p a (f a) -> p String (f String) 08:17:06 <oerjan> :t (#) 08:17:07 <lambdabot> parse error on input ‘)’ 08:17:14 <oerjan> :t ( #) 08:17:15 <lambdabot> parse error on input ‘#)’ 08:17:17 <oerjan> :t ( # ) 08:17:18 <lambdabot> AReview t b -> b -> t 08:31:58 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:35:33 -!- zadock has joined. 08:35:43 <J_Arcane> I have shaved a sheep. https://twitter.com/J_Arcane/status/612890396985831424 08:35:50 <oerjan> <int-e> (but it had survived for 55 months) <-- shachaf can be so brutal :( 08:37:34 <oerjan> `cat bin/culprits 08:37:34 <HackEgo> hg log --removed "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs 08:39:04 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:39:16 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:40:03 <oerjan> @tell shachaf <shachaf> oerjan: why didn't you tell me twhh <-- (1) i didn't realize (2) it was your program (3) i don't really know awk hth 08:40:04 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 08:41:22 <oerjan> `? nitia 08:41:23 <HackEgo> nitia is the creator of all things. The BBC invented her. 08:41:35 <oerjan> i am too late :( 09:21:00 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:55:55 -!- qlkzy_ has changed nick to qlkzy. 09:58:39 <mroman_> World War Z was a very disappointing movie. 09:59:28 <mroman_> I thought it was just recently in the cinemas... but it appears to be from 2013 o_O 10:00:21 <fowl> World War Z (2013) - IMDb 10:00:55 <fowl> nice movie sense 10:01:08 <mroman_> It's my memory. 10:01:16 <mroman_> It mixes up things in time. 10:03:28 <fowl> outside of what you presumed, when you experienced it you judged it correctly :D 10:04:04 <fowl> zombie outbreak yet brad pitt catches 4 flights crashes and survives all of them 10:05:04 <mroman_> super fast walking zombies 10:05:24 -!- hjulle has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:05:54 <mroman_> Zombies make no sense. 10:06:00 <mroman_> They are supposedly "undead". 10:06:29 <mroman_> undead should be a synonym for "alive". 10:07:23 <mroman_> How to make somebody undead: Infect the person with rabbies and make it not feel pain 10:07:24 -!- hjulle has joined. 10:07:48 <mroman_> People infected with rabbies behave really cool 10:08:00 <mroman_> *rabies 10:09:04 <mroman_> and it can lay dormant for 5 years 10:09:44 <mroman_> unlike the zombies in World War Z in which zombification happens in a matter of seconds. 10:10:40 <mroman_> ^imdb 10:10:48 <mroman_> hm 10:11:30 <mroman_> wait 10:11:33 <mroman_> Thor is from 2011? 10:11:40 <mroman_> what the fuck 10:12:34 <fowl> did you just wake up from hypersleep? 10:12:41 <fowl> there was supposed to be a guy to greet you 10:12:52 <fowl> wait 10:13:04 <fowl> was that my job 10:14:12 <mroman_> Are you often in #esoteric? 10:14:47 <fowl> no 10:14:48 <mroman_> and where's elliot 10:14:54 <fowl> i dont know why im here 10:15:51 -!- hjulle has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:19:10 <mroman_> hm 10:19:23 <mroman_> I remember watching Fast & Furiuos 7 10:20:00 <mroman_> and I remember it as pretty boring 10:20:13 <mroman_> and very unrealistic. 10:24:53 -!- boily has joined. 10:39:01 <oerjan> <mroman_> It mixes up things in time. <-- do you remember things from the future? inquiring minds want to know! 10:39:21 <boily> hellørjan. mroman_'s a time-travelling agent? 10:40:10 <mroman_> Uhm... no. 10:40:39 <oerjan> boily: his memory is disconnected from time 10:40:55 <oerjan> `? elliot 10:41:02 -!- boily has quit (*.net *.split). 10:41:02 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 10:41:02 -!- tromp__ has quit (*.net *.split). 10:41:02 -!- kenj0 has quit (*.net *.split). 10:41:03 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (*.net *.split). 10:41:03 -!- izabera has quit (*.net *.split). 10:41:03 -!- qlkzy has quit (*.net *.split). 10:41:03 -!- villasukka has quit (*.net *.split). 10:41:03 -!- staffehn_ has quit (*.net *.split). 10:41:11 -!- qlkzy_ has joined. 10:41:11 <HackEgo> No one was ever called Elliot. 10:41:14 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 10:41:20 <oerjan> oops 10:41:22 -!- v4s has joined. 10:41:27 -!- boily has joined. 10:41:28 <oerjan> mroman_: hth 10:41:36 -!- tromp has joined. 10:41:36 <Jafet> `? eliot 10:41:37 <HackEgo> Eliot inverted cats, then Taneb stole his inversion. 10:41:37 -!- izabera has joined. 10:41:41 * oerjan doesn't know where elliott is either... 10:42:10 -!- staffehn has joined. 10:42:46 <oerjan> `? eliott 10:42:47 <HackEgo> eliott? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:43:09 <oerjan> `Learn Eliott completes the set of stupid spellings. 10:43:09 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: Learn: not found 10:43:14 <oerjan> `learn Eliott completes the set of stupid spellings. 10:43:17 <HackEgo> Learned 'eliott': Eliott completes the set of stupid spellings. 10:44:04 <boily> haven't seen him in a while. 10:44:20 <boily> @ask elliott where do you happen to be at hth 10:44:20 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 10:44:41 <oerjan> afaik he's not been on freenode at all for a while, so lambdabot is unlikely to help 10:48:57 -!- lleu has joined. 11:05:21 <b_jonas> "We provide source code distributions in a variety of archive types. Generally, speaking, Windows users should download .zip files. Users of all other operating systems should download .tar.gz or .tar.bz2 files." -- huh, why would I do that? if it's mostly source code, the .bz2 files will be 60% the size of the .zip files, I won't download zips even on windows when the bz2 is there. 11:06:07 <myname> because windows users need a program to extract tar.bz2 that isn't typically there? 11:06:27 <b_jonas> it's there. it's among the first thing I install, ever. 11:06:37 <myname> well, you do 11:06:51 <b_jonas> and if I want to download this source code thing from the internet, I may as well download 7z first 11:07:01 <scoofy> well, >you< install it. 11:07:33 <scoofy> how much do you pay per MB of bandwidth? 11:08:06 <b_jonas> scoofy: the bandwidth doesn't matter, but my disk space isn't free, and I won't recompress everything I download 11:08:22 <scoofy> how much do you pay for disk space per MB? $0.02 ? 11:08:51 <b_jonas> no, it's a company machine, disk space there costs much more than on my home machine 11:09:30 <scoofy> do the company charge you extra? 11:10:04 <b_jonas> and I have like four gigabytes of installers, many of them large tarballs or zips of a hundred megabyte size, though they're mostly binaries, not source code 11:10:43 <b_jonas> mind you, the compression probably matters only for those few very large installers, not these small ones 11:10:51 <b_jonas> so for these ones I could get the zip 11:11:18 <scoofy> http://img.izismile.com/img/img3/20100923/640/ancient_computer_ads_640_high_08.jpg 11:12:47 <scoofy> a 8GB pendrive costs $5 on ebay 11:13:30 <b_jonas> sure, the kind that's slow and unreliable. storage costs much more when you want it fast and redundant with backups. 11:14:48 <scoofy> well, you don't get something for nothing 11:15:09 <scoofy> for redundancy, you'd need 2 pendrives. that'd be $10. 11:16:03 <scoofy> or Google Drive, gives you 15 GB storage for free. 11:16:32 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:18:33 <b_jonas> don't be ridiculous, I have 700 gigabytes of data just on this workstation, half of it hard to reproduce video data, I need real hard disks, fast and reliable, not pendrive junk 11:19:45 <b_jonas> those cost about 128 EUR per two terabyte disk 11:20:04 <b_jonas> (that's an approximate prize, not an offer) 11:20:23 <b_jonas> (imagine "not for sale" written accross the image in red letters) 11:23:01 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:25:28 <scoofy> "Average Cost Per Gigabyte" - year 2014: $0.03 11:25:39 <scoofy> http://www.statisticbrain.com/average-cost-of-hard-drive-storage/ 11:26:20 <scoofy> and you whine about some 1MB installer being .zip and not .bz2 11:26:34 <b_jonas> it's not some 1 MB installer. I said I have 100 MB installers. 11:26:37 <scoofy> s/installer/source package/ 11:26:40 <b_jonas> the 1 MB installers don't matter 11:26:58 <scoofy> so... if 1 GB HDD storage costs $0.03, then.... 100 MB installers storage cost is.. $0.003 11:27:04 <scoofy> less than the price of a chewing gum 11:27:41 <scoofy> and you have 2 terabyte disks anyways, to store your 700 GB of videos 11:27:54 <b_jonas> no, twice as much, the "average cost per gigabyte" is made up mostly of unreliable or slow hard disks, or hard disks bought in hundreds for data centers in which case they get it cheaper 11:28:07 <scoofy> okay, sorry. then it costs $0.006 11:28:11 <scoofy> almost a cent 11:28:23 <b_jonas> nah, 400 GB of videos locally on this workstation, there's more on the big servers 11:28:33 <b_jonas> the other 300 GB is not videos but miscellaneous data 11:28:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MOAT CHICKEN). 11:29:11 <scoofy> anf you have "like four gigabytes of installers" 11:29:13 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 11:29:21 <scoofy> so that's <1% of all your data on your local workstation 11:29:50 <scoofy> calculating with double of 'average price of HDD per gigabyte', that'd cost you $0.24 in storage 11:32:08 <b_jonas> no, not less than 1%, because I have about 4 gigabytes of installers total 11:32:14 <b_jonas> more like 2% 11:32:18 <b_jonas> but whatever 11:32:23 <scoofy> and you have 400 GB of videos. 4 GB is 1% of 400 GB 11:32:32 <scoofy> but you have 400 GB of videos and 300 GB of other data, that's 700 GB 11:33:01 <scoofy> 1 GB out of 700GB, is 0.14%. 11:33:16 <scoofy> not even one percent. 11:33:31 <scoofy> eh, i mean... 11:33:43 <scoofy> 4 GB out of 700 GB, that's 0.57%. 11:34:15 <scoofy> if your total storage is 2 TB, then 4 GB installers consume 0.2% of your total storage. 11:34:35 <scoofy> if your 2 TB storage cost 128 EUR, then 0.2% of 128 EUR cost 0.25 EUR. 11:34:52 <Jafet> Average cost per gigabyte of mirrored, backed-up, network-attached storage is more like $0.1 per month 11:37:36 <Jafet> Looks like amazon s3 goes with $0.03 (not including backup) 11:37:48 <scoofy> so, b_jonas's 4 GB of installers mirrored, backed-up, network-attached storage cost would be $0.4 per month. 11:38:46 <scoofy> adding 100 MB to it increases monthly cost by $0.01 per month, or one cent per month. 11:39:33 <Jafet> Maybe. Note that unpacking the source tarball is going to use the same amount of space at any rate, so whatever 11:46:19 <mroman_> Don't modern filesystems use compression anyway? 11:46:52 <scoofy> not necessariyl 11:47:15 <scoofy> some may do, but afaik it's optional, not by default 11:47:38 <b_jonas> mroman_: no, at least not by default because that would be slow, and definitely not the kind of strong compression that would recompress a zip archive to a bz2 archive 11:47:39 <Jafet> Which ones do? 11:48:09 <b_jonas> it can't be the default because it's often slow 11:48:25 <mroman_> NTFS can do it 11:48:26 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:48:29 <mroman_> but it's optional. 11:48:38 <mroman_> you can configure it per folder 11:49:02 <b_jonas> mroman_: sure, but most large files that make sense to be compressed are compressed anyawy 11:49:03 <Jafet> That's the only "modern filesystem" in common use that does 11:49:19 <b_jonas> like I said, 400 gigabytes of videos on this workstation, and those are all compressed 11:49:30 <scoofy> not by filesystem 11:49:32 <b_jonas> much of the rest of large data is compressed too 11:49:40 <b_jonas> yes, not by the filesystem, but in a lossy way 11:50:56 <mroman_> Undoubtedly trying to compress already compressed audio/video files probably won't do much 11:51:30 <mroman_> and things that would benefit from compression is usually very small and HDDs today are huge 11:51:33 <b_jonas> mroman_: well, I've seen messed up video files where it would help, but yes 11:51:44 <b_jonas> these aren't that 11:52:02 <scoofy> most multimedia formats dont' compress well (because, already compressed usually) 11:52:02 <mroman_> but I'm not sure if you could get some extra compression if you do it not on a file basis 11:52:08 <mroman_> but on a more global basis 11:52:17 <mroman_> such as HDD sectors and what not 11:52:17 <scoofy> textfiles compress well 11:52:20 <Jafet> Well, SSD firmwares have tried to do data compression. That experience has shown us all why it's generally a bad idea 11:52:21 <scoofy> and are usually small. 11:52:50 <mroman_> Jafet: Ah. Ok. 11:53:06 <scoofy> some file systems allow mounting a .zip or .tar.gz 11:53:07 <Jafet> (File sizes become unpredictable, and compression code is complicated and buggy, adjectives you don't want in a filesystem or block device) 11:53:43 <scoofy> even bzip2 11:54:24 <scoofy> example: "TrueZIP is a Java based virtual file system (VFS) which enables client applications to perform CRUD (Create, Read, Update, Delete) operations on archive files as if they were virtual directories, even with nested archive files in multithreaded environments" 11:55:28 -!- Herbalist has joined. 11:55:59 <Jafet> That sounds terrible for performance 11:57:20 <mroman_> interesting. 11:57:43 <mroman_> there's also some google userspace fs based on google mail or something 11:58:02 <mroman_> also on my windows there's this weird cloud folder 11:58:26 <mroman_> SkyDrive(tm)(r) 11:58:38 <scoofy> well, compression always decreases performance. there's no free lunch 11:59:06 <Jafet> There is no way to update a file in a zip archive in place 11:59:20 <scoofy> yet they do it somehow. 11:59:45 <Jafet> You need to either move all the later files, or append the new file to the end and leave a hole in the archive 12:00:01 <olsner> if a file size changes you can insert a comment between it and the next file 12:00:18 <Jafet> Yes, but not if the size increases 12:00:32 <scoofy> then you leave a hole and append at end. 12:00:34 <Jafet> (Hmm, maybe you can move some of the other files to the end?) 12:00:40 <scoofy> and if you write another, smaller file, then you fill the hole. 12:02:33 <mroman_> which is what filesystems do anyway :) 12:02:37 <mroman_> well 12:02:39 <Jafet> Yes, that is terrible for performance because it can lead to unbounded fragmentation 12:02:39 <mroman_> the old ones 12:02:48 <mroman_> the sucky ones 12:02:55 <Jafet> No, filesystems allocate files in blocks 12:03:05 <scoofy> Jafet: just like with traditional filesystems. 12:03:13 <scoofy> modern ones fragment less 12:03:46 <scoofy> (but can lead to other problems, like ext4 delayed allocation can cause data loss if there's a power outage) 12:03:54 <mroman_> Jafet: I know. 12:04:12 <scoofy> Jafet: so filesystems waste an entire block, even if you write 1 byte :) 12:04:25 <Jafet> That's still bounded (and internal) fragmentation 12:05:09 <scoofy> maybe trueZIP defragments .zip files. 12:05:24 <scoofy> like how you defragment disks in windows... 12:05:30 <fowl> Hey 12:05:43 <fowl> Y'all heard of 3d fractals? 12:05:52 <Jafet> (Even very old filesystems, such as the ones in Version 7 Unix, use block allocation for files) 12:06:10 <scoofy> no one said the contrary. 12:06:33 <Jafet> Well, you can't do that with zip archives. 12:06:55 <mroman_> punch card file systems ftw 12:07:44 <scoofy> what would be the point of 'allocating blocks' with zip archives? the point of zip archives is files to be small, not to waste an entire block even for a tiny file 12:07:50 <scoofy> so it'd defeat its purpose 12:08:00 -!- mhi^ has left. 12:08:29 <Jafet> Indeed, so treating a zip archive like a filesystem is inherently a bad idea 12:08:33 <mroman_> some FS let you configure the cluster sizes 12:08:47 <mroman_> depending on if you have a lot of small sizes or a bunch of huge files 12:08:50 <scoofy> Jafet: when it's read-only, it's actually not a bad idea 12:08:52 <mroman_> *small files 12:09:01 <fowl> You guys talking about physfs? 12:09:18 <mroman_> cd foo.tar.gz 12:09:20 <mroman_> ls -lah 12:09:23 <mroman_> this would be cool 12:09:36 <mroman_> cp foo.tar.gz/toextract.txt ./ 12:09:47 <fowl> Some fuse fs could do it 12:09:53 <mroman_> you wouldn't need this weird tar util anymore 12:10:10 <Jafet> Actually, most modern filesystems just inline small files into the inode or squash multiple files into one block 12:10:16 <scoofy> mroman_: there's zcat 12:10:17 <scoofy> :) 12:10:51 <scoofy> zcat foo.tar.gz >toextract.txt 12:13:08 <Jafet> Even though tar uses ascii, I don't think that's normally what you want 12:14:03 <scoofy> extension said .txt 12:14:07 <scoofy> that normally implies ASCII 12:14:28 <Jafet> It does not normally imply that an entire tar file is inside it, though. 12:14:47 <scoofy> okay, then zcat foo.gz >toextract.txt 12:16:20 <Jafet> In that case, you might as well use gunzip -c which actually does unpack gzip files (as opposed to zcat which may not work with gzip format on some systems) 12:16:50 <scoofy> sure. 12:18:03 <mroman_> well 12:18:06 <mroman_> tar can ungzip as well 12:19:00 <mroman_> using the z option 12:19:03 <mroman_> as in xvz 12:21:42 -!- qlkzy_ has changed nick to qlkzy. 12:23:04 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:29:37 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBS). 12:34:14 -!- FreeFull has joined. 12:35:10 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:36:40 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:15:54 <shachaf> oerjan: I thought you realized. Never mind. 13:16:17 <shachaf> oerjan: I was mostly wondering why a wisdom/ entry inaccessible with `? exists. 13:16:28 <shachaf> mroman_: Apparently you know? 13:17:04 <shachaf> oerjan: you should create a better entry for nitia twh 13:37:56 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:41:19 <mroman_> shachaf: Know what? 13:41:56 <shachaf> `cat wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR 13:41:57 <HackEgo> Who told you this? 13:42:21 <mroman_> It's the password. 13:42:42 <mroman_> We have asked the mighty machine for the password 13:42:54 <mroman_> and the password is XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR 13:43:00 <mroman_> yet, it couldn't say what for. 13:45:28 <b_jonas> mroman_: that's impossible. there's only one Q tile, and words longer than 15 letters can't fit on the board 13:45:57 <mroman_> > length "XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR" 13:45:58 <lambdabot> 16 13:46:09 <mroman_> 15 doesn't exist in the 2^n system 13:46:22 <mroman_> (for integer n) 13:49:41 <Jafet> `? qzyzzalroum 13:49:42 <HackEgo> You should start the crossword over. 13:55:18 <shachaf> mroman_: but it's inaccessible with `? tdnh 13:56:04 <fowl> Hthth 14:02:22 <tswett> @messeses-loud 14:02:22 <lambdabot> oerjan asked 6h 23m 3s ago: Just to clear something up, are you physically larger than the average person twh 14:02:39 <tswett> @tell oerjan Yes (due primarily to lean mass). 14:02:40 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 14:05:33 <shachaf> @messages-loud 14:05:33 <lambdabot> oerjan said 6h 9m 13s ago: <shachaf> oerjan: what's all this <-- I don't remember hth 14:05:33 <lambdabot> oerjan said 6h 47s ago: Actually, it was the password. Ask mroman_. 14:05:33 <lambdabot> oerjan said 5h 25m 30s ago: <shachaf> oerjan: why didn't you tell me twhh <-- (1) i didn't realize (2) it was your program (3) i don't really know awk hth 14:06:06 <shachaf> oerjan: i don't really know awk either and i thought the program was matching on <> because i'd already forgotten how it worked hth 14:07:12 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 14:25:42 -!- nys has joined. 14:28:00 <mroman_> what? 14:28:10 <mroman_> `? XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR 14:28:11 <HackEgo> XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:28:19 <mroman_> well 14:28:20 <mroman_> this is funny 14:28:37 <mroman_> but it fits. 14:28:42 <mroman_> Since we don't know what it's for. 14:29:20 <mroman_> `ls wisdom/XQ* 14:29:21 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/XQ*: No such file or directory 14:29:28 <mroman_> `run ls -lah wisdom/ 14:29:29 <HackEgo> As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead. 14:29:36 <mroman_> i see 14:29:51 -!- vanila has joined. 14:30:18 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:31:11 -!- Herbalist has joined. 14:31:21 <mroman_> shachaf: That's probably because ? does a lower-case 14:31:37 <mroman_> and the file is upper-case 14:31:45 <shachaf> Yes, I know. 14:32:03 <mroman_> naturally, the password is upper-case 14:32:09 <mroman_> so making it lower-case would be totally wrong 14:47:47 -!- ThePendulum has joined. 14:47:50 -!- ThePendulum has left. 14:54:46 <tswett> `run ls wisdom/XQ* 14:54:47 <HackEgo> wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR 14:54:59 <tswett> `? XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR 14:55:00 <HackEgo> XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:55:04 <tswett> `cat wisdom/XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR 14:55:05 <HackEgo> Who told you this? 14:55:44 <myname> what 14:56:14 <tswett> I feel like I was planning to say or do something. 14:58:27 <mroman_> That's cool. 14:58:51 <mroman_> not as cool as playing video games while dissociating 15:00:09 -!- augur_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 15:04:02 -!- rdococ has joined. 15:06:32 <FireFly> `` culprits wisdom/XQ* 15:06:38 <HackEgo> oerjan 15:06:49 <FireFly> `` culprits wisdom 15:06:51 <HackEgo> oerjan shachaf shachaf tswett oerjan oerjan oerjan hppavilion1 shachaf tswett oerjan oerjan oerjan mroman oerjan oerjan shachaf shachaf shachaf oerjan shachaf orenn orenn ais523 shachaf shachaf tswett shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf shachaf hppavilion1 hppavilion1_ coppro ais523 Taneb oerjan tswett orenn shac 15:08:00 <coppro> pikhq: how do I make your country stop being terrible? 15:08:32 <rdococ> by stopping it from existing 15:10:16 -!- augur has joined. 15:11:13 <tswett> Man, dissociated gaming is the best. 15:16:31 -!- hilquias has joined. 15:16:35 -!- hilquias has quit (Changing host). 15:16:35 -!- hilquias has joined. 15:21:29 <vanila> https://esolangs.org/wiki/ASCII_art/mandelbrot 15:23:02 <vanila> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Gibberish/JavaScript/HTML_interpreter I find spam here 15:23:22 <vanila> unless yunpan is not spam 15:33:26 <rdococ> read more carefully 15:33:57 <rdococ> that's not spam, it's just the authors of those articles have trouble communicating in english 15:34:04 -!- spiette has joined. 15:34:17 <rdococ> and on behalf of that person, I feel offended. 15:34:30 <vanila> good for you 15:35:08 <rdococ> thank you 15:42:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Table]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43258&oldid=43241 * Rdococ * (+50) /* Arithmetic */ isn't Table code... 15:44:19 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:44:25 -!- Wright has joined. 15:54:03 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:00:44 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:01:22 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 16:08:43 -!- idris-bot has joined. 16:27:57 <vanila> make a TC esolang that uses every chinese kanji for a different thing, and is not turing complete if any one character is removed from the language 16:30:31 <myname> it would be hard enough for every number from 0 to 9, wouldn't it? 16:30:53 <vanila> yes very hard 16:30:59 <vanila> espelically if oerjan is around 16:34:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:34:53 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:34:58 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 16:35:41 -!- hilquias has joined. 16:44:34 -!- Wright has joined. 16:45:14 -!- heroux has joined. 16:49:39 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:49:44 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:51:49 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:59:57 <b_jonas> what's the name for good features where you had to implement nothing for the feature to work, it just fell out from the rest of the design? 17:00:00 -!- Wright has joined. 17:01:20 <b_jonas> an example I'm fond of is quantity control in eye drops. no matter how much liquid you get into your eyes from an eye drops, the right amount will remain in your eyes and the extra will flow out on the bottom because your eyes just can't hold it. so the quantity is entirely self-regulating, and the container doesn't have to do anything for this. 17:01:35 <b_jonas> as a result, the only way to take too much eye drops is if you use it too frequently. 17:02:02 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:02:04 -!- gamemanj has joined. 17:02:11 <b_jonas> (there are some ways to take too few eye drops, or the wrong type, or use it when you shouldn't use it at all of course) 17:11:33 <pikhq> coppro: I dunno. 17:12:28 -!- mihow has joined. 17:41:42 <FreeFull> b_jonas: It's because eyes have their own lubricating system built in 17:42:15 <FreeFull> And given people cry sometimes, that has to drain properly 17:42:35 <b_jonas> FreeFull: yes, but it's free for the eyedrops 17:43:27 <Jafet> If you didn't do anything for a feature, is it your feature? 17:53:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:03:45 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:04:22 <shachaf> oh :'( 18:08:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:16:14 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 18:19:32 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 18:19:52 -!- lleu has joined. 18:21:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:21:53 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 18:27:52 -!- nycs has joined. 18:29:39 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBS). 18:30:10 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:30:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:32:03 <coppro> pikhq: :( 18:32:45 <shachaf> pikhq: When did you say you're moving here? 18:35:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:35:45 <ais523> I just rebooted because the network adapter was malfunctioning 18:35:55 <ais523> and remembered to check the parent PID of Abiword this time 18:35:57 <ais523> it is… upstart! 18:36:10 <coppro> lol 18:36:11 <vanila> oh 18:36:21 <vanila> i tohught ubuntu is using systmed 18:36:21 <ais523> I have the feeling that upstart is upset that this is a systemd system now 18:36:25 <ais523> vanila: it is 18:36:28 <ais523> but it's using upstart too somehow 18:36:29 <vanila> O_O 18:36:30 <vanila> lol 18:36:31 <ais523> and when upstart is being upstart, not init 18:36:35 <vanila> what the heck... 18:36:37 <ais523> it's just utterly craz 18:36:40 <ais523> *crazy 18:36:47 <vanila> maybe you can delete upstart 18:36:49 <ais523> either that or this is some sort of malware pretending to be upstart 18:36:57 <ais523> but I don't get why malware would open abiword 18:37:06 <shachaf> ais523: Are you sure nitia didn't start it up? 18:37:49 <ais523> upstart's parent is /usr/sbin/lightdm (running as root, not ais523) 18:38:00 <coppro> that's great 18:38:06 <gamemanj> ais523: maybe trollware? 18:38:08 <ais523> and lightdm has caused problems for me too 18:38:25 <shachaf> I think all lightdm does is run your desktop environment thing. 18:38:57 <ais523> well, the only time the boot failed 18:39:01 <ais523> lightdm was involved somehow 18:39:08 <ais523> it tried to start for about 30 seconds, gave up 18:39:13 <ais523> and then did a clean shutdown of the system 18:40:23 <ais523> but up until now I hadn't made the connection that lightdm = gdm equivalent, not metacity/compiz equivalent 18:41:16 <coppro> I've never heard of lightdm behaving like that 18:42:08 <ais523> coppro: well you can easily blame systemd, or even plymouth (I was reading the messages that boot, which might be related) 18:46:51 <pikhq> shachaf: "Soon". 18:47:03 <pikhq> Next couple weeks or so? 18:50:00 <tswett> b_jonas: there's the phrase "happy accident", but that's sort of informal. 18:50:50 <tswett> Maybe you should call it an "accidental feature". 18:59:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:01:39 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:02:40 <oerjan> is there an international campaign to outlaw subwoofers i think twh in this building 19:02:54 <oerjan> @messages- 19:02:54 <lambdabot> tswett said 5h 14s ago: Yes (due primarily to lean mass). 19:03:40 <shachaf> oerjan: sgtm 19:04:12 <shachaf> international campaign to outlaw subwoofers in oerjan's building 19:04:46 <shachaf> subwoofers are terrible. worse than dogs. 19:04:56 <ais523> dogs are just regular woofers 19:04:58 <shachaf> unfortunately dogs are p. good so that's not saying v. much 19:08:09 <Jafet> Superwoofers? 19:12:43 <nortti> https://medium.com/relevant-stories/rel-chapter-1-907ff616bf80 19:13:18 <shachaf> hi nortti 19:13:23 <shachaf> Maybe I was mixing you up with nitia. 19:13:35 <nortti> hi shachaf 19:13:35 <shachaf> Because I thought that was a real nick or something. 19:13:53 <nortti> nitia? 19:14:04 <shachaf> HackEgo is gone. :-( 19:14:17 <shachaf> nitia created a bunch of files in the HackEgo repository. 19:14:29 <nortti> ah 19:14:34 <nortti> I'm not them 19:14:39 <shachaf> According to `culprits 19:14:47 <shachaf> Which is a broken script. 19:14:59 <nortti> such as? 19:15:06 <shachaf> It makes up people like nitia and estin 19:15:14 <nortti> haha 19:15:19 <shachaf> oerjan: fix HackEgo twh 19:15:31 <Jafet> Is that URL supposed to be relevant? 19:15:52 <nortti> no, that url is irrelevant, but on relevant 19:16:40 <nortti> that json-based lang they created seemes esoteric-y 19:17:32 <vanila> wow 19:17:40 <vanila> json language 19:18:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:18:58 <int-e> shachaf: I thought we have to ping fizzie or elliott for that 19:19:16 <shachaf> Or Guest62171? 19:19:34 <nortti> it's no longer run by gregor? 19:19:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:20:04 <Jafet> This looks like one of those languages that should have remained esoteric 19:20:07 * int-e wonders how the esolangs.org takeover is going 19:22:45 <vanila> this 100% looks like a esolang 19:23:11 <vanila> its actually worse though 19:27:13 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:28:39 <vanila> XSLT for TC XML 19:28:45 <vanila> this stupid thing for TC JSON 19:28:50 <vanila> that CA thing for TC CSS 19:29:00 <vanila> we get a full stack of tc languages 19:29:23 <fowl> "_RETURN":{"_MATH":"{foo}+{var}"} 19:29:32 <fowl> The function “_MATH”, from the above example, parses a string into a mathematical expression and returns its result. 19:29:41 <fowl> thats legit 19:29:48 <vanila> I wonder what happens if you want to name something starting with an _ 19:29:55 <fowl> sounds better than javascript 19:30:27 <oerjan> <int-e> shachaf: I thought we have to ping fizzie or elliott for that <-- Gregor, not elliott. 19:30:41 <tswett> This is the sort of programming language that you invent by accident. 19:30:55 <zzo38> Macro-RDF for TC RDF 19:31:07 <shachaf> oerjan: it seems to me that pinging any of those three is about equally effective hth 19:31:27 <Jafet> Just make sure to use sendmail for mailing your webapp's users and you're good to go 19:33:59 <zzo38> [ :return [ :add _:foo, _:bar ] ] 19:33:59 <j-bot> zzo38: |syntax error 19:33:59 <j-bot> zzo38: | :return[ :add _:foo,_:bar]] 19:34:17 <zzo38> I don't care if it is syntax error, that's fine with me 19:37:39 -!- TodPunk has joined. 19:38:16 -!- vanila has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:40:19 -!- Wright has joined. 19:42:01 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: it seems to me that pinging any of those three is about equally effective hth <-- that is true. although elliott isn't even on the network. 19:42:27 <shachaf> oerjan: nevertheless hth 19:42:55 <oerjan> fizzie: ping 19:42:58 <oerjan> Guest62171: ping 19:44:19 <oerjan> Gregor: ping 19:45:41 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:46:13 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:49:20 -!- copumpkin has quit (Excess Flood). 19:54:12 <shachaf> fizzie has disappeared into the google black hole hth 19:57:35 <zzo38> `danddreclist 64 19:57:46 <zzo38> Finally, here it is. 19:58:38 <oerjan> =HackEgo> danddreclist 64: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 19:59:13 <oerjan> of course shachaf is the only one actually here... 19:59:32 <shachaf> I stopped reading danddreclist a while ago. 20:01:01 <oerjan> ais523: hey, you could modify thutubot to link to HackEgo instead of lambdabot that would help >:P 20:01:10 <zzo38> Do you still want your name on their though or do you want to remove it afterward? 20:01:15 <oerjan> *twh 20:01:36 <ais523> oerjan: it's not like thutubot's been online in ages 20:01:41 <b_jonas> I have a crazy idea. I think it wouldn't be too difficult to build a sort of distributed vcs layer over svn, 20:02:14 <oerjan> if we only had an exploit to actually get HackEgo to reconnect... 20:03:17 <b_jonas> where you can create branches that track a remote svn repostiroy, and you can fetch to and push to it, and it could even be very compatible with ordinary svn in the sense that you could use ordinary svn for any operation that's within a repository. 20:03:54 <b_jonas> As long as you don't mind it being not as efficient with disk space and caches as a first-class distributed vcs. 20:03:58 <shachaf> b_jonas: There are several versions of this already, aren't there? 20:04:06 <b_jonas> And I think it wouldn't even be very difficult to build such a thing. 20:04:13 <shachaf> svk, git-svn 20:04:26 <b_jonas> shachaf: I don't know of any. I've seen several that can *pull* but not push. 20:04:49 <shachaf> Ah. 20:05:01 <b_jonas> shachaf: I'll have to look at git-svn because I'm not too familiar with it, but I think that's not what I want 20:05:25 <shachaf> I think it's not. 20:05:40 <b_jonas> Well, I'll have to look at git-svn anyway, because people praise it, even if it's not for this. 20:06:02 <b_jonas> But anyway, I'm not completely sure this is possible, and how hard it is, I'm still trying to figure out the details. 20:06:31 <b_jonas> But if I decide it's not very difficult, I might even try to write such a thing myself, because I like subversion and I'd totally use something like this. 20:07:37 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:08:58 <shachaf> hi copumpkin 20:09:08 <coppro> cohi pumpkin 20:09:19 <b_jonas> I like subversion because it is designed well, it has a good interface, and keeps improving all the time. 20:09:57 <zzo38> I don't know much about working of Subversion 20:10:25 <coppro> b_jonas: but it's a CCVS 20:10:45 <coppro> err CVCS 20:11:21 <zzo38> Which is meaning what? 20:11:25 <b_jonas> coppro: what does that mean? 20:11:31 <b_jonas> "CVCS"? 20:11:40 <coppro> centralized version control system 20:11:51 <b_jonas> coppro: yes, and that's exactly the problem this would fix 20:12:48 <coppro> why do you want a cnetralized system to begin with, though? 20:13:54 <b_jonas> coppro: I said above, because svn is designed and implemented well, it has a good interface, and keeps improving so I get new goodies but all compatibility with every minor version upgrade, 20:14:13 <b_jonas> and also existing people are using svn so I could use this to existing svn repositories. 20:15:01 <b_jonas> Really, I like svn, and I think many people who don't like it don't like it because they've got their impressions from older versions of svn (especially ones before 1.5) which weren't as good as current ones are. 20:15:10 <zzo38> I don't seem to have Subversion in my computer though 20:15:18 <b_jonas> zzo38: you can probably install. 20:15:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: the executable is called svn , if you want to check if it's already on 20:15:48 <zzo38> I did check that, I don't have it on Cygwin. 20:16:01 <b_jonas> and the homepage is http://subversion.apache.org/ which tells you how to install 20:16:16 <b_jonas> oh, I don't know cygwin, I don't know if there's a cygwin version 20:16:21 <b_jonas> but there's a native windows version 20:16:50 <b_jonas> svn is quite portable, they develop it so it works well on windows (unless it's version old versions of windows) as much as that's possible 20:17:00 <zzo38> I don't need a Cygwin version; I just checked there because if I had it, that is where it would be. 20:20:30 <b_jonas> (and when I said it would be compatible with svn, imagine the disclaimer that that's as long as all the repositories and svn servers are svn 1.5 or later) 20:20:44 <b_jonas> (but using svn older than that is a bad idea anyway) 20:22:50 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: I thought you realized. Never mind. <-- i realized what the nitia entries were but not that it was due to a bug in your program 20:23:04 <shachaf> more like a feature hth 20:24:16 <oerjan> OKAY 20:26:00 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:38:37 <b_jonas> Also, if someone made something like this, it might count as esoteric enough for this channel. 20:40:51 <FireFly> nitia is my favourite user 20:42:04 <ais523> who is this nitia person anyway? 20:42:53 <oerjan> `culprits bin/list 20:42:59 <oerjan> oh wait 20:43:19 -!- nortti has changed nick to nitia. 20:43:21 <oerjan> ais523: it's hard to demonstrate without HackEgo tdnh 20:43:46 <ais523> ah, is that the only place it comes from? 20:43:56 -!- nitia has changed nick to nortti. 20:44:15 <oerjan> oh someone actually nicked to it... 20:44:28 <nortti> yes, it's mine now 20:44:31 <oerjan> a very nortti boy 20:44:44 <ais523> -NickServ- Information on nitia (account nortti): 20:51:08 <b_jonas> I'm still using rsync -e "sudo -u" as a convenient way to copy files between users 20:51:33 <ais523> b_jonas: sudo cp; sudo chown? 20:51:47 <b_jonas> ais523: no, that requires root 20:52:00 <b_jonas> this works even between two non-root users if I have sudo permissions 20:52:05 <ais523> actually, the method I use when retrieving read-protected files from nethack4.org is to get the destination user to make an a+r copy 20:52:14 <b_jonas> I don't want to use root when I don't have to, even if I have root access, to avoid mistakes 20:55:47 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:57:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:58:17 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:58:53 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:59:50 -!- edwardk has quit (Changing host). 20:59:51 -!- edwardk has joined. 21:01:44 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:03:34 -!- edwardk has quit. 21:03:45 -!- edwardk has joined. 21:04:03 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:12:38 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:23:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 21:24:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:35:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:36:21 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:38:53 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:40:07 -!- EgoBot has joined. 21:40:28 -!- GeekDude has joined. 21:45:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:51:18 -!- HackEgo has joined. 22:06:56 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:07:10 -!- TieSoul has joined. 22:21:41 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:21:51 <shachaf> `olist 991 22:22:02 <HackEgo> olist 991: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 22:22:20 <shachaf> `welcome HackEgo 22:22:25 <HackEgo> HackEgo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 22:22:43 <FireFly> o 22:30:48 <tswett> hauts 22:30:53 <shachaf> HireFly 22:30:57 <tswett> A French word, pronouned /o/. 22:30:57 <myndzi> | 22:30:57 <myndzi> /| 22:31:05 <tswett> Thank you, myndzi. 22:31:11 <tswett> Thyndzi. 22:34:46 -!- sunnymilk has joined. 22:49:37 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:51:46 <FireFly> hachaf 22:51:56 <shachaf> ha 22:52:14 <FireFly> how do you do? 22:52:30 <shachaf> do what? 22:52:54 <FireFly> how's it going? what's up? how's life? 22:53:44 <shachaf> whoa 22:54:58 <FireFly> That sounds positive 22:58:01 <shachaf> i don't really know hth 22:58:06 <shachaf> how's your life 22:58:11 <shachaf> are we living the same life 23:00:12 <FireFly> Good question 23:00:50 -!- staffehn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:04:30 -!- staffehn has joined. 23:34:17 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:34:39 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 23:35:01 -!- EgoBot has joined. 23:37:01 -!- mihow has joined. 23:54:09 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:56:32 -!- mihow has joined. 2015-06-23: 00:03:09 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 00:23:26 -!- Herbalist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:24:35 -!- Herbalist has joined. 00:48:32 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 01:25:23 -!- bb010g has joined. 01:37:24 -!- lambdabot has quit (Changing host). 01:37:24 -!- lambdabot has joined. 01:50:04 -!- heroux_ has joined. 01:50:56 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:50:59 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 02:42:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:57:34 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:00:42 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:00:53 -!- HackEgo has joined. 03:31:24 <tswett> Randomly generated error message: 03:31:26 <tswett> 13:37:54: <oerjan> `run echo $ 5 9 51 8 0 1 2 1 1 3 4 2 1 4 7 5 8 57 2 5 3 2 2 4 7 6 3 6 1 03:31:26 <tswett> 15:09:28: <HackEgo> data darn, preceding the complete path 03:31:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Numberic Underload]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43259 * Esowiki201529A * (+275) Created page with "'''numberic Underload''' is a [[Underload]] derivative. It has the same instructions but... <pre> Replace ) with 0 Replace ( with 1 Replace ~ with 2 Replace : with 3 ..." 03:31:49 -!- copumpkin has quit. 03:31:57 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:32:00 <HackEgo> weetoflake/Weetoflakes are something Taneb invented; they taste sort of purple. 03:33:38 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:33:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Esowiki201529A * moved [[Numberic Underload]] to [[Numeric Underload]] 03:34:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Numeric Underload]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43262&oldid=43260 * Esowiki201529A * (-1) 03:40:49 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 03:41:21 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:41:22 <HackEgo> qzyzzalroum/You should start the crossword over. 04:00:28 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:10:41 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 04:18:06 -!- password2 has joined. 04:20:59 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:21:50 -!- password2 has joined. 04:29:11 <zzo38> Maybe I should just avoid adding multipart support for now. It means you can't upload files using a HTML form, although the -T command of cURL can still be used (it also means -F can't be used, but that is OK because you can use -T instead) 04:50:00 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 04:56:14 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 05:00:09 -!- Wright_ has joined. 05:00:09 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:29:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Imaginer1]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43263&oldid=43171 * Imaginer1 * (-198) Sticker giveaways are on hold indefinitely due to a bad mood. >:c 05:32:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Imaginer1]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43264&oldid=43263 * Imaginer1 * (+168) 05:34:48 <b_jonas> hmm… there is one problem, but I don't know how big it is 05:36:01 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:52:12 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:19:50 -!- Wright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:41:28 -!- ski has joined. 07:30:08 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 07:33:07 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:48:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:49:28 -!- lleu has joined. 08:31:26 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:25:09 * Taneb good morning 09:40:42 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 09:42:01 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:57:21 -!- villasukka has joined. 10:19:14 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:20:12 <int-e> `? code 10:20:29 <HackEgo> code? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:20:41 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:22:04 <int-e> `le/rn code/5 9 51 8 0 1 2 1 1 3 4 2 1 4 7 5 8 57 2 5 3 2 2 4 7 6 3 6 1 10:22:09 <HackEgo> Learned «code» 10:22:31 <myname> wat 10:23:41 -!- boily has joined. 10:25:12 <int-e> exactly ;-) (see what tswett wrote 7 hours ago) 10:28:00 <FireFly> FJtIABCBBDECBEHFIzCFDCCEHGDGB. 10:31:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:59:00 -!- hilquias has joined. 11:21:26 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PECTORAL CHICKEN). 11:24:18 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:25:15 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:27:00 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Quit: Going, going, gone.). 11:48:20 -!- WhatsNew has joined. 11:48:55 -!- WhatsNew has quit. 12:49:34 -!- a21 has joined. 12:50:48 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 12:54:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:56:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:11:44 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 13:16:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mov]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43265&oldid=43252 * Keymaker * (+37) Category, some capitalization. 13:18:40 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:25:32 -!- idris-bot has joined. 13:38:35 -!- nycs has joined. 13:47:29 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:50:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Loovjo * New user account 13:54:45 <izabera> http://devnull-as-a-service.com/ 13:55:29 <mroman_> what's that? 13:55:55 <izabera> it's a link 14:01:23 <Jafet> Someone here had a quit message "1 found in /dev/zero" 14:01:55 <Jafet> Now that's something, /dev/zero as a service 14:05:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:11:12 <FireFly> They did cat-as-a-service before SaaS was a thing 14:11:22 <FireFly> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc862 14:14:48 <mroman_> this looks very incomplete 14:15:19 <mroman_> no references 14:21:44 -!- hilquias` has joined. 14:23:06 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:24:58 <b_jonas> Jafet: didn't noentropy.net have that? 14:26:00 <b_jonas> as for /dev/null as a service, the relevant rfc is http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc863.html which is one after the echo one 14:29:20 <mroman_> is there also a /dev/random as a service rfc? 14:29:30 <mroman_> No data is read, just random garbage sent. 14:29:48 <mroman_> also 14:29:59 <mroman_> netfish 14:30:04 <mroman_> which is just deadfish as a service 14:30:21 <b_jonas> mroman_: no, but there's rfc864 about non-random garbage data sent 14:30:35 <b_jonas> in a pattern that's likely mostly deterministic but not precisely defined 14:30:51 <b_jonas> the goal is to just send junk output regardless the input 14:31:49 <mroman_> The question is, if ESOSC should standardize netfish . 14:32:08 <mroman_> and request a Port from IANA 14:32:13 <mroman_> or however that works? 14:32:15 <mroman_> (who manages ports?) 14:33:42 <FireFly> I think it's IANA, yeah 14:34:42 <mroman_> Why would you even want to register a Port there? 14:34:43 <mroman_> I mean 14:34:47 <mroman_> you can just use any port you want anyway 14:39:44 <mroman_> "Please explain why a unique port assignment is necessary as opposed to a port in range (49152-65535) or existing port." 14:39:45 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:39:50 <mroman_> uhm... 14:40:13 <mroman_> Does anybody have a reason why netfish needs a port in the registered port range? 14:41:41 <Jafet> I don't think you need reasons, just money. 14:42:20 <b_jonas> just make up a number and use it 14:42:34 <b_jonas> it doesn't have to be registered 14:42:48 <b_jonas> everyone does that 14:44:36 <mroman_> but that's no fun. 14:44:39 <mroman_> and unofficial. 14:45:00 <b_jonas> make up a port number but prefix it with X- 14:45:21 <b_jonas> or use one of those multiple services where there's a meta-service you can query for the addresses of other services? 14:45:28 <b_jonas> I think people have invented multiple of those 14:49:27 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 14:50:31 <mroman_> oh well 14:50:36 <mroman_> IANA will inform me in 14 days :) 14:53:10 -!- gniourf has joined. 15:00:01 <mroman_> port numbers are integers 15:00:06 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 15:00:09 <mroman_> how the hell am I supposed to prefix them with X-? 15:15:05 <tswett> Use X-TCP. 15:19:02 -!- lemurian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:19:23 -!- lemurian has joined. 15:23:37 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:33:33 -!- lemurian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:35:27 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:36:13 -!- vanila has joined. 15:42:17 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:49:27 -!- gniourf has joined. 15:56:26 <shachaf> ski: Where did . o O come from? 15:56:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FakeASM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43266&oldid=40737 * 148.197.42.176 * (+24) 15:56:32 <shachaf> `wisdom 15:56:33 <HackEgo> hand/A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. 15:58:04 <ski> shachaf : i'm not sure. possibly i saw it on #scheme. or maybe somewhere else 15:58:28 <vanila> hi ski 15:58:35 <ski> lo vanila 15:59:59 -!- gamemanj has joined. 16:03:36 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:03:37 <HackEgo> egobot/EgoBot is my arch-nemesis. 16:03:48 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:03:49 <HackEgo> haskell/Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 16:03:54 <int-e> I've been using . o O ( ) even before I discovered IRC. 16:07:07 <int-e> I saw the .o( ) variant in some MUD, but didn't like it. 16:07:21 <int-e> But the general idea must be ancient. 16:07:46 -!- nys has joined. 16:07:49 <vanila> http://esoteric.codes 16:07:59 <shachaf> `wisdom 16:08:00 <HackEgo> doesthiswork/no 16:08:07 -!- Wright has joined. 16:08:10 -!- spiette has joined. 16:08:20 <vanila> a good little site 16:15:55 <b_jonas> `? .oO(welcome) 16:15:55 <HackEgo> ​.oO(welcome)? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:16:00 <b_jonas> `? .o(welcome) 16:16:00 <HackEgo> ​.o(welcome)? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:16:39 <b_jonas> `ls wisdom/*[oO]*lcome* 16:16:40 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/*[oO]*lcome*: No such file or directory 16:16:44 <b_jonas> hmm 16:17:24 <int-e> ____oOOo_(O.O)_oOOo___ 16:17:30 <b_jonas> do we have a command for defining a welcome variant and registering it in the welcome variant list? 16:18:51 -!- kline has changed nick to ayylmao. 16:19:46 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:21:01 <olsner> is there a welcome variant list? 16:22:35 <vanila> `help 16:22:35 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 16:22:43 <olsner> I suppose every command is `welcome, some welcomes are just more mutilated than others 16:25:24 -!- password2 has joined. 16:26:51 <b_jonas> olsner: I don't know, but we could try 16:27:07 <b_jonas> ``grep -l welcome wisdom/* 16:27:08 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `grep: not found 16:27:11 <b_jonas> ``` grep -l welcome wisdom/* 16:27:17 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°​_o): Is a directory \ wisdom/reflection \ wisdom/welcome.bork 16:27:17 <myndzi> | 16:27:17 <myndzi> º¯`\o 16:27:23 <b_jonas> oh shut up 16:27:28 <olsner> :D 16:27:52 <b_jonas> ``` grep -sl welcome wisdom/* 16:27:53 <HackEgo> wisdom/reflection \ wisdom/welcome.bork 16:27:57 <b_jonas> um 16:28:01 <b_jonas> ``` grep -sl elcome wisdom/* 16:28:02 <HackEgo> wisdom/ \ wisdom/reflection \ wisdom/welcome \ wisdom/welcome.bork 16:28:08 <b_jonas> huh 16:28:13 <int-e> `? reflection 16:28:14 <HackEgo> cat.reflection. 16:28:18 <b_jonas> ``` cat wisdom/relcome 16:28:19 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/relcome: No such file or directory 16:28:24 <b_jonas> oh right, it's not in wisdom! 16:28:32 <b_jonas> ``` grep -sl elcome bin/* 16:28:34 <int-e> ah, right. 16:28:36 <HackEgo> bin/welcome \ bin/WELCOME \ bin/WeLcOmE \ bin/Welcome \ bin/benvenuto \ bin/bienvenido \ bin/elcome \ bin/emoclew \ bin/erypbzr \ bin/jrypbzr \ bin/ozcome \ bin/relcome \ bin/rwelcome \ bin/tervetuloa \ bin/velcome \ bin/wElCoMe \ bin/wehlcohme \ bin/welcome \ bin/welcöme \ bin/wellcome \ bin/wlcm \ bin/wlcmr \ bin/wow \ bin/zalgreet \ bin/ουε 16:28:49 * int-e forgot what the reflection thing does. 16:28:52 <b_jonas> ``` grep -sl elcome bin/* | tail -n+20 16:28:53 <HackEgo> bin/wellcome \ bin/wlcm \ bin/wlcmr \ bin/wow \ bin/zalgreet \ bin/ουελκομε 16:29:07 <int-e> `` ls -la wisdom/reflection 16:29:08 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 18 Jun 9 16:46 wisdom/reflection -> /proc/self/cmdline 16:31:48 <b_jonas> isn't that too few? 16:32:06 <b_jonas> it doesn't even list relcome 16:32:12 <b_jonas> `relcome me 16:32:13 <HackEgo> ​me: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 16:32:15 <shachaf> It is too many. 16:32:20 <b_jonas> ``` cat bin/relcome 16:32:20 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rainwords 16:32:30 <b_jonas> oh right, it is in the list 16:32:53 <int-e> `wow 16:32:54 <HackEgo> ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .>/gro.sgnalose//:ptth< :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW 16:32:59 <b_jonas> and I should have even found it because it's ordered asciibetically, that was the whole point of the ``` 16:33:34 <int-e> `emoclew 16:33:35 <HackEgo> ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .</gro.sgnalose//:ptth> :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW 16:33:44 <password2> fabulous... 16:34:01 <vanila> `gcrhbmiue 16:34:01 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: gcrhbmiue: not found 16:34:36 <vanila> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ 16:34:36 <myndzi> | | | | | | | | | | | | 16:34:36 <myndzi> >\ |\ /< |\ /`\ /< /< /| /^\ /< |\ |\ 16:35:09 <olsner> `jrypbzr 16:35:10 <HackEgo> Jrypbzr gb gur vagreangvbany uho sbe rfbgrevp cebtenzzvat ynathntr qrfvta naq qrcyblzrag! Sbe zber vasbezngvba, purpx bhg bhe jvxv: <uggc://rfbynatf.bet/>. (Sbe gur bgure xvaq bs rfbgrevpn, gel #rfbgrevp ba RSarg be QNYarg.) 16:35:18 <int-e> `celebrate 16:35:18 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: celebrate: not found 16:35:31 <olsner> ^celebrate 16:35:38 <olsner> fungot!!!1 16:38:12 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBS). 16:47:52 <b_jonas> j-bot: '<_-\(oO06@)/-_> .'{~20|(5*i.n)?5$~n=.60 16:47:53 <j-bot> b_jonas: |domain error 16:47:53 <j-bot> b_jonas: | '<_-\(oO06@)/-_> .'{~20|(5*i.n) ?5$~n=.60 16:48:04 <b_jonas> j-bot: '<_-\(oO06@)/-_> .'{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.60 16:48:05 <j-bot> b_jonas: \6- (0/ _@) \O/ \0- -o> (0).<6/ -@_ (o> <O) <6/ \0/.-O> \6> 16:48:05 <myndzi> | 16:48:05 <myndzi> /| 16:48:13 <b_jonas> j-bot: '<_-\(oO06@)/-_> .'{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.80 16:48:14 <j-bot> b_jonas: _o_ (0) <@>.<0_ -@).<o- \O).-6/ _0- \0) -o_ _O).\6/.(6) \6> <6- _@).\O_ <@).-o/. 16:48:17 <b_jonas> j-bot: '<_-\(oO06@)/-_> .'{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.60 16:48:18 <j-bot> b_jonas: _O> _0- (O> _o_ <@- <0) -O- -O>._O>._o- -O/ (o/ (@_ _6- -O>. 16:48:18 <myndzi> | | 16:48:18 <myndzi> /| /| 16:49:00 <b_jonas> j-bot: '|_-\\oO06@//-_| .'{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.60 16:49:01 <j-bot> b_jonas: -@/ \O- |O/.\@_.-o| -o/ -0|.|6_._@_ \O| \6- |6/ \6| \@_ _6/ 16:49:01 <myndzi> | | 16:49:02 <myndzi> /< /´\ 16:49:11 <b_jonas> j-bot: '|_-\\ooooo//-_| .'{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.60 16:49:12 <j-bot> b_jonas: -o| \o- _o_ \o_ _o- \o- -o- \o/ |o_ -o/ \o/ _o/ -o/ |o/ -o/. 16:49:26 <b_jonas> hmm 16:49:33 <b_jonas> j-bot: '|_-\\ooooo//-_| .'{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.60 16:49:34 <j-bot> b_jonas: \o| \o/ \o_.-o|.\o/ -o/ _o/.\o| _o/.-o| -o- -o- \o/ \o_ \o| 16:49:36 <b_jonas> j-bot: '|_-\\ooooo//-_| .'{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.50 16:49:37 <j-bot> b_jonas: -o| \o| |o/ |o_ \o/ _o| _o_ _o_ -o_.-o| -o- \o/ \o 16:49:37 <myndzi> | | | | | | | | | | | | 16:49:37 <myndzi> >\ >\ |\ |\ /^\ /'\ /< /'\ o/`¯º |\/| /< 16:49:42 <b_jonas> aha 16:49:42 <vanila> nice 16:49:47 <b_jonas> j-bot: '|_-\\ooooo//-_| .'{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.51 16:49:48 <j-bot> b_jonas: |o/.\o| _o/.|o/ _o/ |o_ _o/ _o_ \o-.-o- \o- |o/.\o- 16:49:48 <myndzi> | | | | | | | | | | | | | 16:49:48 <myndzi> /| >\ >\ |\ /'\ /< |\ /^\ /| /^\ /| /`\ |\ 16:49:50 <vanila> very nice !!!!!!!!1 16:49:55 <b_jonas> j-bot: '|_-(\ooooo/)-_| .'{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.51 16:49:56 <j-bot> b_jonas: _o) (o/ -o| _o| (o_ (o) (o- (o_ -o) (o).|o- \o/ _o- 16:49:56 <myndzi> | | | | | 16:49:56 <myndzi> |\ >\ /< >\ /^\ 16:49:56 <vanila> good work 16:50:02 <b_jonas> j-bot: '|_-<\ooooo/>-_| .'{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.51 16:50:03 <j-bot> b_jonas: _o| _o| |o| \o- <o> -o/ <o> _o_ -o| |o|.|o| <o| |o_ 16:50:03 <myndzi> | | | | | | | | | | | | | 16:50:03 <myndzi> >\ /| >\ >\ /| /< >\ /| /`\ /| /< >\ /´\ 16:50:08 <vanila> :D 16:50:27 <vanila> what agreat script 16:50:40 <vanila> .'{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.51 what is this 16:50:52 <vanila> I know i. counts up 16:51:16 -!- Taneb has changed nick to abeTn. 16:51:30 <b_jonas> j-bot: '|_-(\ooooo/)-_|ooooo'{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.51 16:51:31 <j-bot> b_jonas: _o/o(o|o|o)o\o-o_o-o-o|o\o)o_o|o_o/o|o_o(o/o(o|o-o- 16:51:45 <b_jonas> j-bot: '|_-(\ooooo/)-_|o '{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.51 16:51:46 <j-bot> b_jonas: \o/ (o| (o) -o-o_o| _o/o|o| (o-o\o/o\o) _o| (o/ |o/ 16:51:46 <myndzi> | | | 16:51:46 <myndzi> /| /| /'\ 16:51:54 <b_jonas> doesn't like too many heads I guess 16:51:54 -!- abeTn has changed nick to Taneb. 16:52:10 <vanila> it's off by one there 16:52:13 <vanila> trange 16:52:18 <b_jonas> what off by one? 16:52:19 <vanila> b_jonas: \o/ 16:52:19 <myndzi> | 16:52:19 <myndzi> /´\ 16:52:37 <b_jonas> vanila: it uses the nick lengths 16:52:43 <vanila> oh 16:52:48 <b_jonas> "j-bot" is shorter than "myndzi" 16:54:03 -!- perrier__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:54:18 <scoofy> test: /o\ 16:54:19 <myndzi> | 16:54:19 <myndzi> /'\ 16:54:27 <scoofy> lawl 16:55:20 -!- perrier has joined. 16:55:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:00:17 <FireFly> b_jonas: cute 17:00:44 <FireFly> why the . though? 17:05:02 <b_jonas> dunno, I wanted to try to push the limits and find out what myndzi eats 17:05:35 <b_jonas> j-bot: '|_-(\ooooo/)-_|g&/-M'{~20|(5*i.n)+?5$~n=.51 17:05:36 <j-bot> b_jonas: \o_M|o|-(o|/\o|&_o/&_o/g(o_&\o)/-o|/-o--|o)--o)&\o_ 17:05:36 <myndzi> | | | | | 17:05:36 <myndzi> /´\ /`\ >\ /< |\ 17:10:23 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 17:10:42 <hppavilion1> *: Hello 17:12:03 <scoofy> hello 17:13:20 <vanila> hi 17:13:46 -!- mihow has joined. 17:16:43 <hppavilion1> There's everybody 17:16:52 <hppavilion1> I was away installing MinGW on my new laptop 17:17:32 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:18:55 <FireFly> I see 17:19:13 <hppavilion1> I don't remember this setup GUI when I installed it on windows 7... 17:19:17 <hppavilion1> What to do... 17:19:25 <hppavilion1> I kind of want to tell it to install everything 17:19:32 <hppavilion1> But I was really just going for the GCC 17:19:37 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:19:56 -!- mihow has joined. 17:20:11 <b_jonas> question. what cases are there when you can use only uppercase hex digits (ABCDEF), not lower case ones (abcdef)? I know about (1) TeX, (2) dc and bc. Are there others? 17:20:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:20:52 <b_jonas> I mean cases when something accepts only uppercase hex digits as input; not when it only outputs uppercase as output. 17:20:54 <FireFly> I know about one where only the lowercase works (J) 17:21:12 <hppavilion1> Well in some languages you can only use Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Q, and a Smiley face 17:21:17 <b_jonas> FireFly: hmm true 17:21:32 <hppavilion1> But those have neither been implemented nor documented 17:21:38 <b_jonas> hppavilion1: what? is this some esolang? 17:21:39 <FireFly> Which is a bit annoying since b is used as a separator between the base and the digits 17:21:46 <hppavilion1> It's a philisophical thing 17:21:55 <hppavilion1> Infinite languages exist in infininte combinations 17:22:03 <hppavilion1> But only some have been implemented and documented 17:22:06 <FireFly> I tend to prefer uppercase if I can choose 17:23:03 <hppavilion1> Get it? 17:23:25 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:50:31 <oren_> i'm baaaack 17:51:31 <oren_> uppercase hex is better 18:00:37 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:01:22 <hppavilion1> I still prefer GQ:) hex 18:01:56 <b_jonas> oren_: did you come riding on 0XBAAAACK or on the BAAAACK of a horse? 18:01:59 -!- coppro has joined. 18:02:12 <b_jonas> nah dunno 18:18:07 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:21:16 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 18:21:20 <hppavilion1> Hi 18:39:51 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 18:41:46 -!- fowl has joined. 18:41:50 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 18:43:11 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 18:43:46 -!- fowl has joined. 18:44:30 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk). 18:46:10 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 19:09:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43267&oldid=42745 * Hppavilion1 * (+165) /* PFIL */ new section 19:09:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43268&oldid=43267 * Hppavilion1 * (+94) /* PFIL */ 19:12:51 -!- rdococ has joined. 19:13:07 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:25:00 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:25:27 <tswett> 05:56:00: <shachaf> HackEgo could have been a particular amiga book on a binary website for human syntax. 19:35:16 -!- fowl has joined. 19:36:57 <shachaf> Not polite to write those things as if they're actual quotes. 19:37:46 <oerjan> tswett: when the neural net starts producing messages from you quoting the neural net, we'll see whether it's alternative universe counterpart makes quotes that look more real hth 19:37:58 <oerjan> *its 19:39:15 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:46:51 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:48:34 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 19:49:27 <oren_> oerjan: what if it starts producing messages and then tswett quoting them 19:50:20 <oren_> or worse, what if it starts producing real messages before 19:50:25 <oren_> they are posted 19:52:24 <vanila> did you see the mov is turing complete thing? 19:52:35 <oren_> I saw it 19:52:38 <vanila> how cool is thaht? 19:52:58 <vanila> branchless coding 19:54:24 <shachaf> mov + a jump 19:55:31 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:58:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:59:44 <FireFly> Well, can you move to the PC? 20:12:01 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 20:13:45 -!- fowl has joined. 20:13:54 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:16:39 <hppavilion1> Awww 20:16:42 <hppavilion1> I missed rd 20:19:20 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:19:33 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 20:51:11 <hppavilion1> :( 20:54:18 <hppavilion1> rd 20:54:21 <hppavilion1> Wait 20:54:24 <hppavilion1> Didn't mean to send that 20:55:44 -!- lemurian has joined. 20:55:49 <hppavilion1> Hi 20:57:03 <tswett> shachaf: my apologies. 20:57:09 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:57:24 <HackEgo> unréliable/unréliable is French for «peu fiable». 20:57:32 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:57:33 <HackEgo> gregor/Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible. 21:02:58 <oerjan> yay archive binge of the whiteboard finished 21:03:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:03:20 -!- mihow_ has joined. 21:03:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:04:00 -!- mihow_ has quit (Client Quit). 21:05:53 -!- mihow_ has joined. 21:06:55 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:07:37 -!- mihow_ has changed nick to mihow. 21:08:54 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:08:55 <HackEgo> ngevd/ngevd is a fake wisdom entry because having an actual infinite file in wisdom/ makes all manner of stuff bloody awkward. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ also tswett‼ 21:12:16 -!- evalj has joined. 21:13:35 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 21:25:20 -!- mihow has joined. 21:34:10 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:34:39 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:37:41 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 21:38:03 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit). 21:38:30 <FireFly> `wisdom 21:38:30 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:38:35 <HackEgo> coulor/Coulor is the correct spelling. 21:38:35 <HackEgo> qdbrules/qdbformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two 21:38:53 <shachaf> FireFly: clever 21:40:57 <oerjan> `learn Kulør er rett stavemåte. 21:41:04 <HackEgo> Learned 'kulør': Kulør er rett stavemåte. 21:42:54 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:43:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:11:44 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:12:27 <shachaf> `? go 22:12:28 <HackEgo> Go is a common verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in the strategic territories of East Asia. 22:12:43 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:13:36 <fowl> Hi 22:13:42 <vanila> hi 22:15:10 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:15:36 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:16:48 -!- mihow has joined. 22:19:23 <zzo38> How can I get digital cable without all of the menus and OSD and interactive guide and all of that stuff? 22:19:43 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:19:50 <vanila> a charity shop 22:20:07 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:20:18 <vanila> I thought you meant cables as in wires, not TV sorry 22:21:21 <b_jonas> zzo38: I guess it's like how you can get DRMed music or games without having to install a DRM manager that cripples your windows computer and breaks down when you lose internet connection or replace any part of your hardware 22:21:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: get an illegal pirated decoder box 22:22:32 <zzo38> I am not trying to avoid paying for channels 22:23:13 -!- Herbalist has joined. 22:23:56 <b_jonas> zzo38: then pay for them and then connect such a decoder maybe 22:24:13 <zzo38> I don't even know how to get such decoder though 22:24:19 <zzo38> Or how to program it 22:26:26 <zzo38> I want to be able to access it using an analog tuner 22:27:02 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 22:27:13 <b_jonas> how would you control it then, if you access it from an analog tuner? 22:27:45 -!- fowl has joined. 22:28:13 <zzo38> It would digitally tune to various channels and broadcast them on a analog RF signal on different channels, and then just stay out of the way 22:28:16 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 22:28:35 -!- vanila has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:29:08 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:29:16 <zzo38> Another way would be to use a MIDI input port to receive channel changing commands (without OSD), if the VCR or TV or whatever support it then it would use that to change channels. 22:29:27 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:29:29 -!- TieSoul_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:29:41 -!- TieSoul has joined. 22:29:56 -!- boily has joined. 22:30:06 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:30:15 -!- fowl has joined. 22:30:30 <boily> @metar CYUL 22:30:31 <lambdabot> CYUL 232200Z 27019G31KT 30SM FEW030 BKN070 BKN090 24/15 A2960 RMK CU1AC4AC1 SLP022 DENSITY ALT 1500FT 22:31:03 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 22:31:11 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:31:21 <boily> `relcome YokeOfIdea 22:31:25 <HackEgo> ​YokeOfIdea: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 22:31:42 -!- mihow has joined. 22:33:02 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 22:33:05 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:33:35 <zzo38> Another way could be to make a test signal on all channels other than the one tuned, and the video out passes through the cable box and uses that to know which channel to tune to. 22:33:52 <hppavilion1> Hi 22:34:41 <zzo38> It works if you are using a VCR to tune the signal, but not with a TV set (unless perhaps it is a TV set that supports external speakers) 22:35:49 -!- mihow has joined. 22:37:17 <boily> helloppavilion1! 22:38:25 <boily> I wonder if the only people left with VCRs are hipsters nowadays. 22:38:52 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 22:39:21 -!- mihow has joined. 22:40:36 <boily> zzo38: hezzo38. I bought a foldable shogi board. I made a grave mistake by teaching our team's intern the game the other week, and now she's addicted. 22:41:48 -!- Froox has joined. 22:45:13 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:45:27 -!- bb010g has joined. 22:46:30 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:47:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Bonnuily). 22:48:48 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:51:36 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:52:29 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:52:37 -!- mihow has joined. 22:56:47 -!- variable has joined. 22:57:41 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:01:26 <zzo38> Would you know how to make such a device like how I mentioned? 23:02:50 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:05:10 -!- variable has joined. 23:06:40 -!- hilquias` has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:06:50 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:09:07 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:10:03 -!- mihow has joined. 23:13:29 <boily> zzo38: perhaps. let me read the logs. 23:14:17 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 23:14:37 <boily> by the way, my parents got a new android tablet. it's all shiny and stuff, but they can't browse anything https. do you have any idea why? 23:15:01 <boily> (already tried the automatically-set-date-and-time solution, but it does nothing.) 23:15:05 <zzo38> What kind of error message? 23:15:12 <zzo38> Do any other protocols work? 23:15:34 <boily> something about timeouts, pages loading partially if they're lucky... 23:15:38 <boily> regular http works. 23:16:04 <zzo38> I mean other protocol such as FTP, gopher, SMTP, etc 23:16:17 <zzo38> (Of course you need a client supporting them) 23:16:34 * boily shrugs. “maybe” 23:16:49 <boily> the problem is that the aforementioned tablet is quite far from my hands atm hth 23:17:24 <zzo38> Make a Wikipedia proxy that doesn't require HTTPS. 23:17:30 <zzo38> That could be one way 23:17:57 <boily> nice comeback. 23:18:00 <boily> zzo38++ 23:18:12 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:18:55 <zzo38> (The Wikimedia Foundation refuses to do this; I have asked them.) 23:19:47 <boily> always be thorough with that kind of matter at hand. 23:24:31 -!- GeekDude has joined. 23:30:58 <zzo38> (I am not the only one to have asked.) 23:31:58 <boily> you are the thirty-eighth zzo. I wouldn't be surprised if all 37 previous ones also asked. 23:34:43 <shachaf> `wisdom 23:34:43 <FireFly> boily: did you just turn zzo38 into zzo39 23:34:46 <HackEgo> madness/madness lies thataway. 23:35:02 <FireFly> @karma zzo38 23:35:03 <lambdabot> zzo38 has a karma of 12 23:35:11 <FireFly> zzo50. 23:35:28 <boily> Firellofly. the real zzo38 is zzo38 hth 23:35:38 <boily> shellochaf. 23:38:20 <shachaf> HireFly 23:38:36 <shachaf> Hily 23:40:17 <nys> a program that can print anything you pipe into it except its own source 23:41:59 * boily plugs his ears with mapole ear plugs. “LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA” 23:43:29 <shachaf> `wisdom 23:43:34 <HackEgo> torus/Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented them. 23:43:37 <shachaf> FireFly: how's snakebird going 23:43:54 <boily> `wisdom 23:43:55 <HackEgo> rhubarb/Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb, rhubarb: rhubarb rhubarb? Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb rhubarb. 23:44:43 <FireFly> shachaf: haven't played it since last time; I was mostly away from my computer over the weekend celebrating midsummer 23:44:56 <FireFly> `wisdom 23:45:00 <HackEgo> swedish/Swedish is the language of fine cuisine. 23:45:21 <FireFly> `` ls wisdom/* | wc -l 23:45:22 <HackEgo> 549 23:45:41 <FireFly> actually.. 23:45:47 <FireFly> hm 23:45:51 <FireFly> `` ls wisdom | wc -l 23:45:52 <HackEgo> 1 23:45:56 <FireFly> ._. 23:46:02 <boily> FireFly: uhm. wouldn't that be, like, you know... 23:46:03 <FireFly> `` ls wisdom/ | wc -l 23:46:04 <HackEgo> 1 23:46:29 <shachaf> `` /bin/ls wisdom | wc -l # hth 23:46:30 <HackEgo> 542 23:46:35 <FireFly> tdh 23:46:42 <FireFly> I forgot about that 23:47:04 <zzo38> What is the other seven? 23:47:11 <nys> auntie quine 23:47:25 <FireFly> zzo38: presumably directories containing files 23:47:36 <zzo38> O, yes 23:48:11 <boily> that, or they're Eldritch Forbidden Wisom Entries of Untractable Lore. 2015-06-24: 00:03:48 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 00:08:13 <boily> `wisdom 00:08:14 <HackEgo> ​@/@ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour 00:08:18 <boily> `wisdom 00:08:19 <HackEgo> code/5 9 51 8 0 1 2 1 1 3 4 2 1 4 7 5 8 57 2 5 3 2 2 4 7 6 3 6 1 00:08:30 <boily> ah! I don't have that one. 00:08:36 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:08:37 <HackEgo> eliot/Eliot inverted cats, then Taneb stole his inversion. 00:09:03 <FireFly> `wisdom 00:09:03 <boily> @tell elliott you really should join the chännel back hth 00:09:03 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 00:09:04 <HackEgo> unicode/Unicode is a mess invented in 1988 by Xerox, Microsoft, the Spanish Inquisition, and the evil Human Supremacy Corporation, in order to make it easier for the government to spy on Chinese people. 00:09:28 <FireFly> I see 00:09:31 <shachaf> zzo38: Which government? 00:09:38 <FireFly> `wisdom 00:09:39 <HackEgo> poland/Połąńd is a European country. Its population consists of two main ethnicities, the North Połes and the South Połes. 00:09:44 <zzo38> I don't know? Perhaps the US government 00:10:18 <shachaf> `? the us 00:10:19 <HackEgo> The US is the country opposed to the THEM. 00:10:25 <shachaf> `? the them 00:10:25 <HackEgo> Information on the THEM has been removed for national security reasons. 00:10:27 <boily> `? Canada 00:10:28 <HackEgo> Canada is Big Scotland. Like, you know, very big. 00:10:39 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:10:40 <HackEgo> rincewind/Rincewind is a wizzard. He likes potatoes. 00:11:41 <boily> `wisdom 00:11:42 <HackEgo> browser/A browser is a Gopher client for convenient access to Gopher services and documents. 00:21:55 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:21:57 <HackEgo> pie/I like pie \ I like pie 00:22:02 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/browser 00:22:03 <HackEgo> int-e 00:22:06 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:22:07 <HackEgo> for further details./See `? for further details for futher details. 00:22:10 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:22:11 <HackEgo> whitespace/see https://www.bing.com/search?q=whitespace 00:22:26 <shachaf> Aw, they fixed it. 00:22:29 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/whitespace 00:22:31 <HackEgo> No output. 00:24:22 <FireFly> `? Bowser 00:24:23 <HackEgo> Bowser? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:25:32 <FireFly> `le/rn bowser/A Bowser is a Koopa client for convenient administration of mooks in Mushroom Kingdom. 00:25:34 <HackEgo> Learned «bowser» 00:27:22 <shachaf> something wrong with `learn? 00:28:07 <FireFly> I'd probably mess it up 00:28:26 <FireFly> last I tried to use it, I think the wisdom entry name got included in the file content 00:28:46 <FireFly> That was a few years ago though 00:28:49 <shachaf> Yes. 00:28:55 <shachaf> But here you put the wisdom entry name in the file content. 00:29:22 <zzo38> The `learn command is OK if you want the filename only one word and is also the first word of the data 00:29:53 <shachaf> `cat bin/learn 00:29:54 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "Learned '$topic': $1" 00:30:03 <shachaf> It also recognizes if the first word of the data is a or an or the 00:30:18 <zzo38> O, I didn't know that 00:31:10 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:31:50 <FireFly> Too much magic could be harmful 00:32:17 <FireFly> rather than remember and keep up-to-date with `learn's magic, it's easier to just `le/rn 00:32:33 <FireFly> although that might just be me 00:33:09 <shachaf> It's not just you. 00:33:21 <shachaf> But I feel obligated to mention it thanks to oerjan. 00:33:31 <shachaf> He complained about how le/rn encourages people not to put the title in the content. 00:34:12 <zzo38> Sometimes the title might not be needed in content though 00:37:27 <boily> zzo38: just got a callback from my dad. setting the tablet to +0800 makes SSL work. who would've known. 00:37:30 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:37:34 <HackEgo> botlop/botlops are the core of botsentiences. Sapience is scheduled for the next release. 00:37:40 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:37:41 <HackEgo> itidus19/itidus19 disappeared into a space-time anomaly 00:38:03 <boily> `` culprits wisdom/botlops 00:38:05 <HackEgo> oerjan Bike FreeFull boily 00:39:10 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 00:39:51 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:39:55 <HackEgo> ​̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛͞/̼͚͇̮͕̘̳̞̤̜̯̪̘̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓ 00:40:02 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:40:03 <boily> ... 00:40:04 <HackEgo> ​ĥäŝkéll/ĥäŝkéll is not what you were looking for. Try again. 00:40:25 <boily> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaurgh... 00:40:51 * boily handwaves all those additions to tomorrow. «m'a faire ça demain, ça d'l'air que c'est congé.» 00:41:12 <boily> `` culprits wisdom/ĥäŝkéll 00:41:13 <HackEgo> mroman 00:41:19 * boily mapoles mroman_ 00:49:47 <FireFly> `` culprits wisdom/*ÌÌ* 00:49:49 <HackEgo> No output. 00:49:59 <FireFly> `` ls wisdom/*ÌÌ* 00:50:00 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/*ÌÌ*: No such file or directory 00:51:48 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:51:49 <HackEgo> madness/madness lies thataway. 00:51:51 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:51:53 <HackEgo> funciton/A funciton is the number of burgers to eat when I get one. 00:51:55 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:51:56 <HackEgo> ci/The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with web comics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb. 00:52:19 <shachaf> `? estin 00:52:20 <HackEgo> estin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:54:15 <boily> and here I was naïvely believing that Taneb invented himself. 01:05:16 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 01:17:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:19:12 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:21:32 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 01:43:50 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:57:55 <oren_> if there was no Taneb, it would be necessary for Taneb to invent him 02:01:58 <boily> therefore, Taneb is a quine. 02:02:55 <Sgeo_> What is this II stuff? 02:03:05 <Sgeo_> I assume it's HexChat sucking and it's not really II 02:03:24 <oren_> It's the number after I and after II 02:03:32 <oren_> It's the number after I and before III 02:03:41 <Sgeo_> HexChat is a 💩 02:03:44 <Sgeo_> Ok that works 02:03:53 <Sgeo_> Well, not "works" but shows up as a box 02:04:29 <oren_> what is hexchat? 02:04:55 <oren_> oh like irssi but different? 02:05:45 * boily dons his tinfoil hat and points at a possible hexham conspiracy. 02:07:47 <Sgeo_> It's forked XChat 02:08:13 <oren_> oh so it's a GUI program? bleh 02:08:19 <shachaf> boily: Taneb was presumably invented by nitia. 02:08:33 <boily> shachaf: have we found out who nitia is yet? 02:08:38 <oren_> I prefer ncurses programs for basically all purposes 02:08:42 <shachaf> boily: yes hth 02:08:49 <boily> shachaf: oh twh 02:08:50 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/creator/inventor/' wisdom/nitia 02:08:52 <HackEgo> No output. 02:08:59 <boily> `? nitia 02:09:00 <HackEgo> nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. 02:09:08 <boily> ???????????????? 02:09:13 <boily> tdnh. 02:10:25 <boily> we had fiora and douglass who were feminine chännelers. is nitia one of them? 02:11:03 <boily> (sorry if I'm missing other female members here. by default I'm assuming people to be fungotkin.) 02:11:42 <shachaf> Google says "Nitia" is a feminine name. 02:11:52 <shachaf> But enumerating folks like that doesn't seem very nice. 02:11:54 <oren_> Roughly 80% of my comp sci graduation's attendees were men hth. 02:12:40 <oren_> (Yes, the comp sci department has its own graduation...) 02:13:13 <oren_> s/attendees/'graduands'/ 02:13:53 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/you 02:13:55 <HackEgo> shachaf oerjan FreeFull shachaf shachaf nitia 02:13:57 <boily> oh. btw, fizzie, FUNGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT! 02:14:26 <shachaf> boily: do you want to figure out where nitia came from 02:14:36 <shachaf> int-e got mad that i gave it away 02:14:41 <boily> oren_: roughly 100% of comp eng graduatees were men when I graduated hth 02:14:47 <oren_> anyway, it's safe to say that without any other evidence any given group of computer people are mostly men 02:14:50 <boily> shachaf: is nitia you? 02:15:02 <shachaf> oren_: more like rude to say hth 02:15:33 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:15:54 <oren_> lol yeah some people get mad when you point it out. my dad advised me to study in the medicine section of the library to meet girls 02:16:42 <oren_> (I was like, 'library? what library') 02:16:42 <shachaf> that is not exactly what i mean 02:16:57 <boily> shachaf: can I mapole oren_ with great force? >:) 02:17:27 <shachaf> i would suggest not 02:17:31 <boily> beuh. 02:18:04 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:18:56 <boily> still, we're (or at least I) not progressing upon the nitiaproblem. 02:19:13 <oren_> maybe scan the logs? 02:19:32 <shachaf> boily: you can work it out 02:19:36 <shachaf> all the information is in the hg logs 02:19:40 <oren_> for example figure out what date nitia modified that file and check the logs for that day 02:22:03 <shachaf> The hg logs contain the command that modified the file. 02:22:35 <boily> `rot13 nitia 02:22:36 <HackEgo> avgvn 02:23:45 <oren_> angry video game video nerd? 02:24:34 -!- hilquias has joined. 02:26:10 <boily> shachaf: http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2015-06-22#191506shachaf 02:26:27 <shachaf> cheating 02:27:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:27:27 <boily> ain't cheating. Ctrl-Fed through the logs. 02:27:29 <oren_> Oh, there is also izabera who is a girl 02:27:32 <shachaf> `culprits useless_file.txt 02:27:39 <HackEgo> fizzie estin 02:27:45 <oren_> useless file? 02:27:56 <oren_> `cat useless_file.txt 02:27:56 <boily> izabera: do you corroborate oren_'s affirmation? 02:27:56 <HackEgo> cat: useless_file.txt: No such file or directory 02:28:12 <scoofy> `echo useless > useless_file.txt 02:28:12 <HackEgo> useless > useless_file.txt 02:28:14 <shachaf> really? 02:28:57 <shachaf> i would say just let people be twh 02:29:16 <zzo38> If you want to write it to a file put `` or ``` at front (with a space afterward), to make shell interpretation 02:29:33 <zzo38> If you don't do that then it just treats it as a command with one parameter not interpreted by shell. 02:29:39 <boily> shachaf: indeed. 02:29:52 <shachaf> boily: that includes you 02:30:04 <boily> therefore, indeed. 02:30:15 <scoofy> ``echo useless > useless_file.txt 02:30:16 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `echo: not found 02:30:28 <scoofy> what's the difference between `` and ``` 02:30:35 <shachaf> Why are you mkaing useless_file.txt? 02:31:17 <scoofy> why not? 02:31:29 <shachaf> That file is kind of special. 02:31:29 <zzo38> No, you need a space after `` or ``` 02:31:35 <shachaf> We might never have another file created by estin. 02:31:39 <zzo38> scoofy: The difference between them is the locale setting 02:31:44 <oren_> `` echo 無駄無駄無駄ムダ〜！ > emoticons/useless 02:31:46 <HackEgo> No output. 02:32:13 <zzo38> If you put `` then it uses the default locale, but if you put ``` then it uses the C locale instead. 02:32:22 <oren_> hmm that isn't an emoticon, just a reference to a manga 02:32:44 <boily> and a tractor. 02:36:18 <oren_> `` echo オラオラオラ (三･o･)三☆三(｀ε´三)無駄無駄無駄無駄 > emoticons/useless 02:36:19 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `echo オラオラオラ (三･o･)三☆三(｀ε´三)無駄無駄無駄無駄 > emoticons/useless' 02:36:41 <oren_> `` echo オラオラオラ（三･o･）三☆三（｀ε´三）無駄無駄無駄無駄 > emoticons/useless 02:36:44 <HackEgo> No output. 02:38:02 <zzo38> But if you want to write plain data to a file one way to do is to use the mk command instead 02:40:33 <oren_> I can't find one that includes some depiction of a steamroller and WRYYY 02:40:45 <shachaf> That's OK. 02:40:52 <shachaf> emoticons/ is not a good directory anyway. 02:40:59 <shachaf> IRC would be better with fewer of them. 02:41:28 <oren_> `cat emoticons/gaan 02:41:29 <HackEgo> ​(°Д°) 02:45:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ARCHITEXTURED CHICKEN). 02:47:32 <oren_> ㊤㊤㊦㊦㊧㊨㊧㊨ｳﾙﾄﾗﾊﾟﾝﾁ(*ﾟ∇ﾟ)-Ｏ))～～～～～～Ю)ﾟﾛﾟ)/ 02:52:11 <scoofy> \[^_^]/ 03:14:39 -!- Herbalist has joined. 03:15:10 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 03:18:06 <pikhq> That is not the entire konami code. 03:25:46 <oren_> ㊤㊤㊦㊦㊧㊨㊧㊨Ⓑ Ⓐ [START] 03:26:35 <shachaf> `wisdom 03:26:37 <HackEgo> sport/An 03:27:42 <shachaf> how did that get messed up twh 03:27:53 <oren_> `? konami 03:27:53 <HackEgo> konami? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:27:55 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/sport 03:27:57 <HackEgo> No output. 03:28:24 <oren_> `le/rn konami/The konami code is ㊤㊤㊦㊦㊧㊨㊧㊨Ⓑ Ⓐ [START] 03:28:27 <HackEgo> Learned «konami» 03:33:47 -!- password2 has joined. 03:43:29 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:11:43 <oren_> Why does "font-size: 50px" not make the maximum height of each letter exactly 50 pixels? 04:12:12 <oren_> what the hell is 50px measuring? 04:13:35 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 04:15:10 <oren_> god damn european font makers 04:17:11 <pikhq> It's the height from the top of the box the glyph is in to the bottom. That is, it is making the height of each letter 50 pixels but this includes invisible portions of the letter. 04:18:13 <oren_> It doesn't appear that that's the case. 04:18:22 <pikhq> Then I am wrong. 04:18:50 <oren_> It includes a weird space which no letter fills 04:19:40 <oren_> Well I guess the font was designed with an invisible part at the top of every letter 04:20:10 <oren_> so you're right in a way 04:20:35 <pikhq> It's just measuring 50 useless pixels. :P 04:20:59 <oren_> well 40 useful ones and 10 useless ones 04:23:02 <oren_> Anyway the japanese fonts nver have this problem. (they have other problems...) 04:23:34 <oren_> such as often being ugly as fk 04:23:48 <oren_> (on their latin letters) 04:24:22 <pikhq> Japanese fonts IIRC are likely to be making Latin letters fit in half an ideograph space. 04:24:38 <oren_> That too. 04:24:56 <pikhq> (never mind that this is only typographically correct when you're handwriting on grid paper) 04:25:22 <oren_> Well japanese people do handwrite on graph paper 04:25:42 -!- lemurian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:25:50 <pikhq> Yes, but that's not how Japanese typesetting works. 04:26:10 <pikhq> That's how Japanese hand-written essay writing works. :) 04:26:27 <oren_> modern japanese fonts have a 'P' version which is proprtional 04:26:40 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:27:06 <pikhq> And that one matches proper Japanese typesetting rules. 04:27:54 <oren_> you'll often see the non-p version used for making grids, though (because japanese people hate CSS jsut as much as anyone) 04:27:57 <pikhq> (essentially when you have a run of Latin letters, you're supposed to put that in proportional font, and then when you return to Japanese writing you begin at the next 1 half-space) 04:28:44 <pikhq> Sigh, yeah. 04:31:33 -!- password2 has joined. 04:32:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hagb4rd * New user account 04:32:58 <shachaf> uh oh 04:35:06 <oren_> shachaf: uh-oh? 04:38:44 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 04:41:18 <oren_> Bah, I wonder how much trouble it would be to just write JS that detect the window size and positions eveything absolute 04:43:06 <oren_> maybe I can write a sane version of CSS on top of JS 04:47:46 -!- Wright has joined. 04:54:27 <oren_> No matter how long I use CSS, it always feels like I'm looking up a magic incantation from stackoverflow every time 04:55:03 <oren_> some of which no longer work 04:56:23 <zzo38> Then, don't use CSS, many times is not needed 05:05:22 <oren_> well for this purpose I could use oldskool tables partying like it's 2002. (I needed to vertically align some stuff). I ended up using fixed-size divs to "bump"the content into the right places, which is actually a similar process 05:10:56 <Jafet> Draw your page in a canvas 05:11:03 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:11:30 <zzo38> Why do you need to vertically align some stuff? 05:16:58 <oren_> So that it looks the way the client wants? 05:18:00 <oren_> they want the texts to be vertically aligned at their tops, despite having different meanings for "50px" 05:19:01 <oren_> You have some words in different fonts. veritcal align doesn't work because the visible tops of the letters aren't where the "logical" tops of the letters are 05:19:32 <zzo38> Why do you need the words to be in different fonts? 05:19:57 <oren_> They wanted it that way 05:23:46 <oren_> Well at least it looks correct even if it will look like an abomination to CSS sticklers 05:24:26 <oren_> Jafet: well the accepted approach previously was often to make the whole web page as one SWF 05:24:51 <oren_> So very similar to the approach you propose 05:26:29 <oren_> however now that fucking apple is trying to take away our god-given right to application/x-shockwave-flash 05:26:43 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:27:14 <zzo38> It also is no good if the user doesn't want Flash 05:27:32 <zzo38> Just use text; that work better anywhere. 05:28:09 <oren_> Well, so long as the user has a fixed width font or you supply the font 05:28:21 <oren_> it could work 05:28:48 <zzo38> The user probably will have a fixed width font, although you can supply one anyways, and also specify fixed width so that it will still work if the user does not download the font. 06:34:18 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:37:36 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, it _should_, if it weren't for the stupid bug in firefox releases these days where if you ask firefox to ignore the specific font face names specified by the webpage (css or html), then it also ignores requests for monospace, serif, sans-serif. 06:38:17 <b_jonas> zzo38: they used to do this properly, honoring requests among those three predefined names but not specific font face names, but they messed it up a year ago or something. 06:44:38 <zzo38> Can you still use <TT> or whatever? Furthermore, can they to fix the bug? And, can you tell it to not download any fonts but still honor requests for font names if you have them installed? 06:45:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 06:57:28 <b_jonas> zzo38: no, because the TT is made monospace by a built-in CSS rule too, and that's ignored as well 06:57:43 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, I think you can tell it not to download fonts, but that's not what I want 06:57:53 <b_jonas> I want webpages to use only the two or three fonts I specify 06:58:43 <b_jonas> I already have fonts installed on my system, but I don't want to give control to webpages to specify fonts, because that's not their business. I'm reading text in fonts I choose. 06:59:08 <b_jonas> But it's possible they fixed it in some later version, I haven't checked lately. 07:01:19 <b_jonas> Regardless this firefox bug, the right thing to do for a webpage is to specify monospaced of course. 07:05:03 -!- llue has joined. 07:08:37 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:13:42 <Sgeo_> I think I'm as dumb as the PHB, I don't "get" the latest Dilbert 07:36:09 <Sgeo_> This website has office hours: https://secure.ssa.gov/ICON/main.jsp 07:42:13 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 07:43:09 -!- augur_ has joined. 07:43:23 -!- fowl has joined. 07:43:56 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:56:50 <oren_> I am considering implementing the contraint-based system decribed my John Nagle in this post 07:56:57 <oren_> http://www.raizlabs.com/graiz/2006/09/25/ten-reasons-why-css-sucks/#c116682639983719888 07:58:55 <oren_> I think that that could be implemented to run fairly fast on today's modern javascript interpreters 08:16:09 <oren_> http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.101.4819 08:17:37 <oren_> https://github.com/slightlyoff/cassowary.js 08:17:46 <oren_> seems it's been done 08:25:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:28:39 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:31:01 -!- ayylmao has changed nick to kline. 08:32:14 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:33:03 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:39:09 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 09:11:29 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:13:55 <mroman_> there's multicolumn support in CSS3 btw 09:19:17 <mroman_> and box-sizing 09:21:58 <mroman_> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh673558%28v=vs.85%29.aspx <- and that 09:22:06 <mroman_> although I'm not sure if that is supported by other browsers 09:23:39 <mroman_> https://developer.mozilla.org/de/docs/Web/CSS/CSS3 09:23:40 <mroman_> hm. 09:23:47 <mroman_> parts of CSS3 are still under development? 10:00:42 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:09:11 -!- FireFly has quit (Changing host). 10:09:11 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:48:09 -!- a21 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:03:56 -!- quintopia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:23:25 <Jafet> http://constraints.cs.washington.edu/cassowary/ seems to be lacking in the web design department 12:26:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:28:38 <Jafet> Hmm, it's an incremental simplex algorithm 12:30:33 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 12:36:27 <mroman_> This channel lacks fungot. 12:36:58 -!- boily has joined. 12:43:53 -!- Frooxius has joined. 12:47:28 -!- vanila has joined. 12:48:48 <vanila> Helllo 13:01:44 <Jafet> vanelllo 13:10:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:41:40 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:53:28 -!- quintopia has joined. 13:55:20 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:59:31 -!- gniourf has joined. 14:03:31 <mroman_> Numeric Underload 14:03:33 <mroman_> :( 14:10:06 <boily> mrelloman_. what's a numeric underload? 14:11:48 <Taneb> boily, an Underload derivative in the same style as most brainfuck derivatives 14:12:40 <boily> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! 14:12:50 <boily> shun the derivative! 14:16:36 <mroman_> boily: Some ‎Esowiki201529A language 14:17:23 <coppro> `learn boxmodel is how we figure out how big Taneb's cage is going to be. 14:17:35 <HackEgo> Learned 'boxmodel': boxmodel is how we figure out how big Taneb's cage is going to be. 14:17:54 <boily> it's a Taneboxmodel. 14:18:08 <boily> also, vanelllo, Jafellot, Tanelle and chelloppro! 14:19:31 <FireFly> bohily 14:19:48 <boily> FirelloFly! 14:20:06 <FireFly> `wisdom 14:20:10 <HackEgo> dinosaur/Dinosaurs are a diverse group of pre-historic chickens with feathers. 14:21:34 <boily> coppro: last Sunday I managed to ron on 1S 7S 7S 8S 8S 9S 9S 7M 8M 9M 7P 8P 9P 1S, with 1S as dora :D 14:21:47 <FireFly> `` echo $'#!/bin/sh\ntr "aoeuiy" "äöëüïÿ"' >bin/döts && chmod a+x bin/döts && wisdom | döts 14:21:49 <HackEgo> mrmn/mrmn s ldng rtst n psswrd scrt (SFW). H ls lks blck mdnss. H cn dsgn psswrd hshs tht r wrs thn th dntt fnctän. H nvntd th dntt fnctän. H's ls n rtst n ncnvntänl wrfr. 14:22:04 <FireFly> I think we have a UTF-8 problem 14:22:16 <FireFly> `revert 14:22:25 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 14:24:15 <vanila> isn't GNU tr just brkoen? 14:26:07 <FireFly> Perhaps 14:26:29 <FireFly> `` echo $'#!/bin/sh\nsed -re "y/aoeuiy/äöëüïÿ/"' >bin/döts && chmod a+x bin/döts && wisdom | döts 14:26:32 <HackEgo> böwsër/A Böwsër ïs ä Kööpä clïënt för cönvënïënt ädmïnïsträtïön öf mööks ïn Müshrööm Kïngdöm. 14:26:50 <Jafet> `locale 14:26:50 <HackEgo> LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ 14:27:42 <FireFly> `` echo $'#!/bin/sh\nwisdom | döts' >bin/wisdöm && chmod a+x bin/wisdöm 14:27:44 <HackEgo> No output. 14:27:59 <boily> `` echo $'#!/bin/sh\nsed -re "y/aehiotuwxy/äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿ/"' >bin/döts && chmod a+x bin/döts && wisdom | döts 14:28:03 <HackEgo> zömgmödülës/ZOMGMODULES ïs böẗḧ ä smäll blöndë vëẗërïnärïän änd jüsẗ mödülës övër ẗḧë rïng öf ZOMGs. 14:28:10 <vanila> `- 14:28:11 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: -: not found 14:28:57 <FireFly> `` echo $'#!/bin/sh\nsed -re "y/aehiotuwxyAEIOUY/äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿÄËÏÖÜŸ/"' >bin/döts && chmod a+x bin/döts && wisdom | döts 14:29:00 <HackEgo> ​ḧänd/Ä ḧänd ïn ẗḧë büsḧ ïs bëẗẗër ẗḧän ä sẗönëd bïrd. 14:29:28 <mroman_> `? mroman 14:29:30 <HackEgo> mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function. He's also an artist in unconventional warfare. 14:29:45 <mroman_> black madness? 14:29:58 <FireFly> `? mroman | döts 14:29:59 <HackEgo> mroman | döts? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:30:00 <mroman_> `log black madness 14:30:01 <coppro> boily: :D 14:30:03 <FireFly> `` ? mroman | döts 14:30:03 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/log: 2: cd: can't cd to /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ grep: ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory 14:30:04 <HackEgo> bash: 0: command not found 14:30:09 <FireFly> oh come on 14:30:13 <FireFly> `` \? mroman | döts 14:30:13 <HackEgo> mrömän ïs ä lëädïng ärẗïsẗ ïn pässẅörd sëcürïẗÿ (SFW). Hë älsö lïkës bläck mädnëss. Hë cän dësïgn pässẅörd ḧäsḧës ẗḧäẗ ärë ẅörsë ẗḧän ẗḧë ïdënẗïẗÿ füncẗïön. Hë ïnvënẗëd ẗḧë ïdënẗïẗÿ füncẗïön. Hë's älsö än ärẗïsẗ ïn üncönvënẗïö 14:30:19 <coppro> boily: in the same game as the suucha riichi after the tourney, I got this hand 14:30:46 <coppro> http://arcturus.su/mjw/images/Coppro_678_Sanbaiman.jpg 14:30:54 <coppro> riichi haitei tsumo 14:31:05 <mroman_> Well, apparentely I added the "black madness" stuff 14:31:18 <boily> coppro: holy fungot! 14:31:32 <FireFly> I don't remember how mahjong works 14:31:41 <mroman_> Wherever that came from. 14:32:01 <boily> coppro: how many chickens did you sacrifice to the Dark Gods to achieve that... 14:33:36 <coppro> boily: twenty senten hands, in the prime of their youth ;) 14:34:00 -!- aretecode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:36:51 -!- aretecode has joined. 14:42:56 <boily> fizzie: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWIGNAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! 14:44:43 <tswett> `cat code 14:44:43 <HackEgo> cat: code: No such file or directory 14:44:48 <tswett> `cat wisdom/code 14:44:49 <HackEgo> 5 9 51 8 0 1 2 1 1 3 4 2 1 4 7 5 8 57 2 5 3 2 2 4 7 6 3 6 1 14:44:55 <tswett> `? code 14:44:56 <HackEgo> 5 9 51 8 0 1 2 1 1 3 4 2 1 4 7 5 8 57 2 5 3 2 2 4 7 6 3 6 1 14:45:31 <tswett> `run echo '[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078...' > wisdom/code 14:45:33 <HackEgo> No output. 14:45:36 <tswett> This code is better. 14:45:38 <tswett> `? code 14:45:39 <HackEgo> ​[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078... 14:46:48 <boily> “Sorry, but the terms do not match anything in the table.” 14:48:28 <tswett> Well, what are we waiting for? Let's try to decode this crap. 14:49:09 <tswett> So, the code appears to consist of a first part and a second part. 14:49:20 <tswett> The first part is "[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],". 14:49:47 <tswett> Seven two-digit numbers, with a fair amount of repetition. 14:50:23 <tswett> The second part starts with "5,5,5,3" (again with the repetition), then it does a bunch of two-digit numbers again. Some of the two-digit numbers have a leading 0. 14:51:01 <boily> there's a 22., and a 10.301350435, then numbers of larger magnitude. 14:51:20 <tswett> The last two-digit number is "22.", with a decimal point or period after it, suggesting that this is some sort of endpoint or at least some kind of distinguished point. 14:51:29 <tswett> And don't forget the 1985, which could be interpreted as a year.f 14:51:47 <tswett> It's not clear whether or not the "..." at the end indicates that the last number which appears continues further. 14:52:30 <boily> I don't think 1985 is a year. it just happens to be a four digit number. I believe the ... is a truncation. 14:52:50 <tswett> Makes sense. 14:53:02 <tswett> How many numbers are there in the core two digit number part? 14:53:13 <tswett> > length [53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58] 14:53:14 <lambdabot> 47 14:53:21 <tswett> 47, or 48 if you count the 22. 14:53:46 <tswett> > sort [53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58] 14:53:47 <lambdabot> [0,1,1,1,6,11,11,11,11,12,13,13,15,15,16,16,16,17,17,18,19,20,20,20,21,22,22... 14:54:32 <tswett> Full output: [0,1,1,1,6,11,11,11,11,12,13,13,15,15,16,16,16,17,17,18,19,20,20,20,21,22,22,23,25,25,26,27,28,29,30,32,32,43,45,45,47,53,58,61,65,81,91] 14:54:51 <boily> ah! I was wondering if 23 were appearing in the second part. 14:54:56 <tswett> So obviously these numbers are heavily biased towards being smaller. 14:55:21 <tswett> And yes, all the numbers appearing in the first part also appear in the second part. 14:55:45 <tswett> And with the exception of 11, they seem to appear the same number of times. 14:55:55 <tswett> 11 appears three times in the first part, but four times in the second part. 14:56:14 <tswett> > filter (`elem` [11,12,15,23]) [53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58] 14:56:16 <lambdabot> [15,11,15,11,11,12,11,23] 14:56:55 <tswett> So how is [11,11,11,15,15,23,12] related to [15,11,15,11,11,12,11,23]? 15:00:24 <boily> except for the extra 11, they are quite the same. they don't do any meaningful melody, they don't form words. they're not made of prime numbers only. 15:02:18 <boily> perhaps the information is in the second part, without the first part. 15:02:50 <boily> the reason there's a fourth 11 in there is because it's the only meaningful 11. 15:04:35 <boily> I surmise that the real separator is the second “.”. the first “.” doesn't make sense, because of the “.,” string right after the “22”. 1985 is an outlier or something. 15:05:19 <boily> another wild guess, “10” is the last two digit number to be considered, and “301350435” is the first of the Gartantuan Series. 15:07:27 <boily> repetitions like that, with bias towards small numbers, make me think of some MTF transform being applied. but my coffee is very strong this morning and I may only be experiencing wild hallucinations. 15:07:39 -!- nycs has joined. 15:07:59 <boily> (the joys of a National Holiday. it gives you time for a large pot of French press!) 15:08:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:13:43 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:17:01 -!- gniourf has joined. 15:23:59 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:30:30 <mroman_> what holiday? 15:31:26 <boily> St-Jean-Baptiste! 15:32:10 -!- gniourf has joined. 15:36:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:38:17 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 15:39:25 -!- fowl has joined. 15:45:27 <mroman_> who was that? 15:47:38 <boily> John the Baptist. 15:50:29 <boily> apparently today is its nativity, and August 9th is its beheading. 15:50:35 <boily> s/9/29/ 15:57:59 <mroman_> nativity meaning birth? 15:58:10 <boily> yes. 15:58:18 -!- nys has joined. 15:58:43 <mroman_> and why was he behaded? 16:02:02 <boily> haven't read that far in the wikipédia article. 16:03:54 <boily> according to tradition, it's because Salome asked for his head. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beheading_of_St._John_the_Baptist#Traditional_accounts 16:06:39 <mroman_> interesting. 16:09:21 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:12:06 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:14:19 -!- gniourf has joined. 16:20:02 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:22:07 -!- gniourf has joined. 16:39:05 -!- gamemanj has joined. 16:39:28 -!- password2 has joined. 16:44:58 -!- rdococ has joined. 16:56:38 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 17:18:54 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:19:39 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 17:20:11 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:24:55 -!- Wright has joined. 17:26:21 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 17:33:32 -!- mihow has joined. 17:39:18 -!- hilquias has joined. 17:39:58 -!- MDude has joined. 18:04:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:13:09 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 18:23:08 <oerjan> hoily. i don't think using lambdabot to contact elliott is likely to work. 18:23:55 <int-e> @bot 18:23:55 <lambdabot> :) 18:24:12 <fowl> Hi guysh 18:24:48 <vanila> hi fowl 18:26:53 <pikhq> When was the last time elliott was seen, anyways? 18:27:34 <shachaf> hi oerjan 18:28:18 <int-e> 2015-05-13-raw.txt:< 1431497089 99107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: leaving 18:28:38 <pikhq> Alas. 18:31:27 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:31:29 <HackEgo> coonspirator/A coonspirator is caterpillar silk wrapped in collaborators. 18:34:44 <boily> hellørjan. 18:34:47 <boily> `wisdom 18:34:48 <HackEgo> something-that-isn't-in-hackego's-wisdom/It is now. 18:41:36 <int-e> `? boredom 18:41:39 <HackEgo> boredom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:41:41 <FireFly> `wisdöm 18:41:42 <HackEgo> för fürẗḧër dëẗäïls för füẗḧër dëẗäïls./Sëë `? för fürẗḧër dëẗäïls för füẗḧër dëẗäïls. 18:41:49 <int-e> ouch. 18:41:57 <vanila> what's up 18:42:32 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:42:33 <HackEgo> macabre/The Macabres have been the hereditary rulers of Lochaber for 3 centuries. 18:42:49 <FireFly> `? coönspirator 18:42:50 <HackEgo> coönspirator? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:42:56 <FireFly> `wisdom 18:42:57 <HackEgo> tanea/Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Yorj. 18:43:22 <boily> `wisdom 18:43:23 <HackEgo> forty/forty means "in a fort-like manner" 18:45:38 * oerjan builds a thirt and starts throwing snowballs at boily 18:45:59 <zzo38> Do you know, how to make a RF modulator that can broadcast on many channels? 18:47:28 <boily> `learn A thirt is for throwsing snowballs at forty things. 18:47:30 <HackEgo> Learned 'thirt': A thirt is for throwsing snowballs at forty things. 18:47:50 <boily> oerjan: just you wait for next winter, you vile fiend! flblblblblblbl! 18:48:23 <oerjan> yay `learn is not dead! 18:48:29 <int-e> `? ice 18:48:30 <HackEgo> ice? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:48:35 <shachaf> Shouldn't forty just mean "fort-like"? 18:48:37 <int-e> So ice would be forty snow? 18:48:51 <boily> no, packed snow is forty hth 18:48:53 <shachaf> According to that definition it's an adverb. 18:49:13 <int-e> but ice is more packed than packed snow 18:50:14 <boily> ice is slippery, and already caused injuries on my person. 18:50:34 <oerjan> `learn A boredom is like a kingdom, except ruled by a bore. They don't tend to last very long before people revolt. 18:50:35 <HackEgo> Learned 'boredom': A boredom is like a kingdom, except ruled by a bore. They don't tend to last very long before people revolt. 18:50:51 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/boredom 18:50:56 <HackEgo> No output. 18:51:00 <shachaf> we have rules hth 18:51:09 <oerjan> not that rule hth 18:51:32 <oerjan> (incidentally the rule for quotes is two spaces hth) 18:51:39 <shachaf> two spaces for separating quotes 18:51:43 <shachaf> sentences aren't quotes 18:52:26 <vanila> zzo38, is it evenv possible? 18:54:54 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 18:55:06 -!- password2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:57:00 -!- fowl has joined. 18:57:27 <oerjan> ooh google redesigned their app menu so translate fits on the first page 18:57:39 <oerjan> (front page app menu) 18:57:41 <shachaf> you can thank pikhq for that 18:57:48 <oerjan> wat 18:57:58 <shachaf> not that he had anything to do with it 18:58:01 <shachaf> but you can still thank him 18:58:05 <shachaf> hth 18:58:06 <oerjan> `thanks pikhq 18:58:06 <HackEgo> Thanks, pikhq. Thikhq. 19:00:35 <int-e> oh well. forty snow: http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1987/12/30 19:00:42 <boily> thikh. thh. eeeekhqhqhqhqh. thikhq. it's fun to say :P 19:01:18 <zzo38> I intend to make that if the channel is changed on the VCR (either manually or using the schedule function) that you will receive the correct signal. They are removing that service by the end of August so I have to implement my own instead 19:01:19 <boily> int-e: I agree. 19:01:20 <int-e> (these strips are surprisingly hard to find if all you know is that there's an ice fort and "where's that kid!")... 19:01:26 <pikhq> I've not done anything for Google yet! 19:02:01 <int-e> where "ice fort" is a reinforced snow fort. 19:04:30 <shachaf> pikhq: then why was oerjan thanking you for it 19:04:44 <oerjan> <shachaf> how did that get messed up twh <-- oren_ got confused about spacing with ` so did `` le/rn sport/An ... 19:05:02 <shachaf> ahtdh 19:05:22 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 19:05:26 <oerjan> shachaf: i think it would be a good idea if le/rn would also print the full wisdom on success. 19:05:38 <shachaf> I don't like it. 19:05:44 <shachaf> But you're free to implement it. 19:05:46 <hppavilion1> le/rn?? 19:06:06 <oerjan> oh no, hppavilion1 discovers le/rn 19:06:13 <shachaf> OK, it can echo it in the same format as its input. 19:06:13 <oerjan> we're basically doomed at this rate 19:06:17 <hppavilion1> What does le/rn do? 19:06:25 <hppavilion1> `le/rn 19:06:26 <HackEgo> No output. 19:06:26 <boily> helloppavilion1. le/rn is your friend. 19:06:35 <hppavilion1> I like that joke 19:06:44 <Taneb> Friendship le/rn 19:06:54 <oerjan> hppavilion1: adds wisdom/ entries in relatively free format 19:06:57 <hppavilion1> Is le/rn `leearn? 19:06:59 <hppavilion1> Ah 19:07:09 <hppavilion1> *`learn 19:07:13 <oerjan> no, `learn requires it to fit a format 19:07:37 <shachaf> le/rn has another name which everyone has forgotten by now 19:07:48 <vanila> any esolang stuff 19:08:03 <hppavilion1> Uh 19:08:04 <hppavilion1> Hm 19:08:11 <hppavilion1> Well walruses are invading 19:09:32 <oerjan> shachaf: it's old name got slashed 19:09:34 <oerjan> *its 19:09:52 <oerjan> `learn Walruses are invading. 19:09:54 <HackEgo> Learned 'walruse': Walruses are invading. 19:09:57 <oerjan> oops 19:10:02 <vanila> anyone know a good esolang idea? 19:10:13 <oerjan> `rm wisdom/walruse 19:10:15 <HackEgo> No output. 19:10:59 <hppavilion1> Is that esoteric enough? 19:11:02 * oerjan cleverly refrains from using broken `revert. 19:11:12 <boily> vanila: you know these 3d pictures you see after crossing your eyes? 19:11:51 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 19:12:01 -!- fowl has joined. 19:12:02 -!- fowl has quit (Changing host). 19:12:02 -!- fowl has joined. 19:12:02 -!- fowl has quit (Changing host). 19:12:02 -!- fowl has joined. 19:12:04 -!- bb010g has joined. 19:12:24 <vanila> yeah 19:12:27 <vanila> you can do them with ASCII too 19:13:47 <boily> a program would be something like a wall of malbolge-y text, where partial superposition of characters form instructions. 19:14:25 <int-e> bonus point if it does something interesting when run as a malbolge program 19:15:00 <vanila> haha so you have to see it in 3d to program 19:15:23 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:15:35 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 19:15:46 <hppavilion1> A good idea for an esolang is an esoteric markup language 19:15:54 <hppavilion1> I'll make the accompanying stylesheet language 19:16:00 <oerjan> <shachaf> uh oh <-- uh oh 19:16:01 <zzo38> Eastlink says they will stop analog service, but I want analog service therefore maybe I have to make my own way, and I have to learn how 19:16:11 <vanila> you shoudn't make your own 19:16:27 <shachaf> oerjan: what are you uh ohing at 19:17:03 <oerjan> shachaf: the same thing as you did hth 19:17:10 <shachaf> ok tdh 19:17:14 <fowl> Esoteric markup language like tex maybe 19:17:28 <boily> what is the term for dedigitizing a signal back to analog? gitizing? 19:17:39 <boily> fowl: plain TeX is already esoteric enough as it is hth 19:18:01 <zzo38> I use Plain TeX 19:18:12 <zzo38> It is very good 19:19:11 <hppavilion1> How about a Befunge-like Esolang? 19:19:21 <hppavilion1> *Esomulang 19:20:17 <hppavilion1> Someone go make that 19:20:21 <hppavilion1> I'm going to go ride a horse 19:20:24 <hppavilion1> Maybe 19:21:00 <fowl> I made a 2d lang like snusp 19:21:03 <hppavilion1> (By make I mean design) 19:21:51 <vanila> cool 19:21:57 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:21:58 <HackEgo> megalun/megalun is a chain of a million SCSI devices. FreeFull weighs 482 of them. 19:22:03 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:22:05 <HackEgo> bdsm/BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it. 19:22:11 <oerjan> . o O (an esolang designed to be as much unlike any other esolang as possible) 19:22:36 <fowl> So a usable esolang? 19:22:43 <shachaf> Taneb: are you sure about that twh 19:22:45 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:22:46 <HackEgo> oren/oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. 19:22:53 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:22:55 <HackEgo> doesthiswork/no 19:22:57 <Taneb> shachaf, I did not invent BDSM 19:22:58 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:22:59 <HackEgo> soup/What soup, Doc? 19:23:09 <shachaf> Taneb: so shouldn't Tanebventions say that? 19:23:15 <shachaf> otherwise people might assume that you did 19:23:19 <izabera> https://twitter.com/xlibfunctions 19:23:21 <Taneb> `? tanebventions 19:23:22 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, and this sentence. 19:23:29 <Taneb> There should be not-tanebinventions 19:23:30 <shachaf> `? this sentence 19:23:31 <HackEgo> This sentence was not invented by Taneb. Taneb invented it. 19:23:31 <MDude> Well, most esolangs are made to have short command names but long programs. 19:23:53 <Taneb> MDude, have you seen Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download? 19:23:53 <oerjan> `learn_append tanebvention He never invents anything involving sex. 19:23:55 <HackEgo> Learned 'tanebvention': Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex. 19:23:57 <shachaf> Taneb: why would you invent such a confusing sentence tdnh 19:24:05 <MDude> I did say "most". 19:24:10 <Taneb> shachaf, it's just the kind of guy that I am 19:24:12 <fowl> MDude: so a language where anything can be done with one command! 19:24:17 <fowl> ?* 19:24:17 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 19:24:18 <oerjan> i hope this clears it up. 19:24:25 <MDude> No, that's basically be Text. 19:24:47 <MDude> Since every program output would ahve to be its own command. 19:25:07 <shachaf> Taneb: that's such a good name 19:25:21 <Taneb> shachaf, thanks, I stole it from a spam article 19:25:22 <shachaf> Was it ion who proposed it? 19:26:28 <Taneb> elliott, I think 19:26:54 <FreeFull> `eval grep -Rl FreeFull | wc -l 19:26:55 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: eval: not found 19:27:01 <FreeFull> `exec grep -Rl FreeFull | wc -l 19:27:01 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: exec: not found 19:27:08 <FreeFull> I forget how to do this 19:27:34 -!- variable has joined. 19:27:36 <oerjan> y'all are horrible nerds 19:27:54 * oerjan considers a HackEgo education camp 19:28:07 <FreeFull> I just don't remember how to HackEgo ): 19:28:13 <FreeFull> `help 19:28:13 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:28:20 <FreeFull> `run grep -Rl FreeFull | wc -l 19:28:37 <FreeFull> Woops 19:29:00 <HackEgo> grep: bin/selflink: Too many levels of symbolic links 19:29:15 <oerjan> fancy 19:29:16 <FreeFull> Ok, that's not strictly my fault 19:29:21 <FreeFull> `run grep -Rl FreeFull wisdom/ | wc -l 19:29:30 <HackEgo> 5 19:30:24 <oerjan> `` grep -Rl FreeFull wisdom/ 19:30:25 <HackEgo> wisdom/freefull \ wisdom/perpetuum mobile \ wisdom/perpetual motion machine \ wisdom/megalun \ wisdom/reflection 19:30:26 <hppavilion1> `ls 19:30:27 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ blah \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ script.py 19:30:35 <hppavilion1> `cd cat 19:30:36 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cd: not found 19:30:44 <hppavilion1> :/ 19:31:04 <hppavilion1> `run script.py 19:31:05 <HackEgo> bash: script.py: command not found 19:31:06 <oerjan> hppavilion1: there's no shell state 19:31:12 <hppavilion1> Oh 19:31:17 <hppavilion1> I was just messing around 19:31:17 <oerjan> every command runs separately 19:31:31 <hppavilion1> Hm 19:31:37 <hppavilion1> Ooooh 19:31:40 <hppavilion1> I get what you mean 19:31:43 <hppavilion1> `script.py 19:31:44 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: script.py: not found 19:31:51 <oerjan> the top level directory tends to get full of junk 19:31:54 <hppavilion1> `python script.py 19:31:55 <HackEgo> Hello World! \ Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "script.py", line 2, in <module> \ n \ NameError: name 'n' is not defined 19:32:28 <oerjan> inb4 "like all the others" 19:32:29 <hppavilion1> How do I read the contents of a python file again? 19:32:40 <hppavilion1> `read script.py 19:32:40 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: read: not found 19:32:44 <hppavilion1> `help 19:32:44 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:32:52 <oerjan> hppavilion1: try `url 19:33:01 <oerjan> it's the simplest way for a long file 19:33:05 <hppavilion1> `url script.py 19:33:06 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/script.py 19:33:31 <oerjan> if it's short, `cat will work too 19:33:33 <hppavilion1> How would I go about editing a file? Just out of curiousity 19:33:41 <hppavilion1> `cat script.py 19:33:41 <HackEgo> print('Hello World!') \ n 19:33:48 <oerjan> hppavilion1: with linux commands 19:33:56 <oerjan> oh it was that short 19:34:03 <hppavilion1> *Sigh* 19:34:09 <hppavilion1> I suppose I should finish learning Python 19:34:21 <hppavilion1> Not python 19:34:21 * hppavilion1 facepalms 19:34:22 <hppavilion1> Bash 19:35:11 <hppavilion1> `python -v 19:35:13 <oerjan> `? perpetuum mobile 19:35:16 <HackEgo> Perpetual motion machines came with FreeFull's phone. They were hallucinated by Slereah's lack of entropy. 19:35:22 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:35:24 <HackEgo> lens/A lens is just a store comonad coalgebra. 19:35:40 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 19:35:41 <HackEgo> ​# installing zipimport hook \ import zipimport # builtin \ # installed zipimport hook \ # /usr/lib/python2.7/site.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.7/site.py \ import site # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.7/site.pyc \ # /usr/lib/python2.7/os.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.7/os.py \ import os # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.7/os.pyc \ import errn 19:35:48 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:35:49 <HackEgo> nortti/nortti boy. very nortti boy. 19:36:00 <boily> `wisdom 19:36:01 <HackEgo> hmph/His Master's Phonetic Hmph 19:36:07 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/nortti 19:36:09 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull oerjan FreeFull oerjan FreeFull atriq 19:36:21 <hppavilion1> `touch people.py 19:36:23 <HackEgo> No output. 19:36:24 <hppavilion1> `ls 19:36:25 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ blah \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ people.py \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real 19:36:49 <hppavilion1> How do I do newline in batch? 19:36:51 <hppavilion1> *Bash? 19:36:57 <hppavilion1> just \n? 19:37:15 <shachaf> are you sure you don't want to do newline in !!!Batch? 19:37:22 <oerjan> if you're making a big script, it's easier to put it on a webpage and use `fetch 19:37:35 <hppavilion1> Yeah 19:37:38 <hppavilion1> But mine'll be small 19:37:45 <shachaf> oerjan: wait, `fetch works? 19:37:53 <hppavilion1> Besides 19:38:02 <hppavilion1> Putting it on Github would be too much effort :P 19:38:05 <hppavilion1> `ipconfig 19:38:06 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ipconfig: not found 19:38:07 <oerjan> for small scripts, i use to do `run (echo ...; echo ...) >filename 19:38:12 <hppavilion1> `ip-config 19:38:13 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ip-config: not found 19:38:27 <oerjan> shachaf: hm does `mk have newline support? 19:38:33 <shachaf> no hth 19:38:50 <shachaf> if you can figure out how to add it reasonably it would be nice 19:38:52 <hppavilion1> `echo "people = ['hppavilion1']" >> people.py 19:38:53 <HackEgo> ​"people = ['hppavilion1']" >> people.py 19:39:11 <hppavilion1> `cat people.py 19:39:11 <HackEgo> No output. 19:39:19 <hppavilion1> That didn't work 19:39:49 <MDude> `metal 19:39:50 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: metal: not found 19:40:01 <hppavilion1> ls Complaints 19:40:12 <hppavilion1> `ls Complaints 19:40:13 <HackEgo> Complaints 19:40:18 <hppavilion1> `ls Complaints/ 19:40:19 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access Complaints/: Not a directory 19:40:20 <oerjan> hppavilion1: by default HackEgo commands get only a single argument made of everything after the command 19:40:27 <hppavilion1> Oh 19:40:44 <hppavilion1> `help fetch 19:40:44 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:40:47 <MDude> No command to tell HackEgo to say something that sounds metal? 19:40:59 <boily> `wisdöm 19:41:00 <HackEgo> ​ẗẅnḧ/ẗẅnḧ ïs dübïöüs ḧämbïgüïẗöüs ḧëlp ẗḧäẗ ẅïll ör ẅïll nöẗ bë ḧëlp. 19:41:05 <MDude> Alright. 19:41:18 <boily> this has mëẗäl ümläüẗs. 19:41:22 <hppavilion1> Wait 19:41:42 <oerjan> if you want shell, you use the special command `run or the abbreviation `` (space after needed) 19:41:47 <hppavilion1> So the entirety of the arguments are one argument composed of everything after the command, separated by space? 19:41:50 <hppavilion1> *spaces? 19:42:21 <oerjan> hppavilion1: um the spaces aren't really separating anything, they're just there 19:42:38 <oerjan> given it's a single argument 19:42:51 <oerjan> `echo hi there look spaces 19:42:52 <HackEgo> hi there look spaces 19:43:00 <hppavilion1> Well I mean the equivalent of ' '.join(sys.argv[1:]) 19:43:34 <oerjan> hppavilion1: there's only one argument, so nothing to join. 19:43:42 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:43:48 <hppavilion1> Dammit 19:43:55 <hppavilion1> I should've checked if he was online when I joined 19:45:22 <FreeFull> `? reflection 19:45:23 <HackEgo> cat.reflection. 19:45:25 <hppavilion1> Werid 19:45:28 <hppavilion1> *Weird 19:45:37 <FreeFull> Oh, that's neat 19:45:49 <hppavilion1> I kind of want to create a script for this IRC 19:45:51 <hppavilion1> Just for fun 19:45:55 <FreeFull> `/usr/bin/ls -l wisdom/reflection 19:45:55 <hppavilion1> What do make though? 19:45:56 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /usr/bin/ls: No such file or directory 19:46:01 <FreeFull> `/bin/ls -l wisdom/reflection 19:46:01 <HackEgo> ​/bin/ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `/bin/ls --help' for more information. 19:46:04 <oerjan> `cat bin/welcöme 19:46:05 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | sed s/o/ö/g 19:46:33 <oerjan> FreeFull: you don't need /bin/ls for anything other than the wisdom/ directory entry itself 19:46:45 <hppavilion1> echo "print('Hello, World!')" >> script.py 19:46:54 <hppavilion1> `echo "print('Hello, World!')" >> script.py 19:46:54 <HackEgo> ​"print('Hello, World!')" >> script.py 19:46:59 <oerjan> oh wait 19:47:04 <oerjan> `cat bin/wisdöm 19:47:05 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ wisdom | döts 19:47:06 <hppavilion1> `python script.py 19:47:06 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "script.py", line 2, in <module> \ n \ NameError: name 'n' is not defined \ Hello World! 19:47:14 <oerjan> MDude: oh it's called döts 19:47:23 <hppavilion1> `cat script.py 19:47:23 <HackEgo> print('Hello World!') \ n 19:47:35 <hppavilion1> I can't edit script.py 19:47:36 <hppavilion1> Halp 19:47:43 <FreeFull> `run echo Foobar! | döts 19:47:44 <HackEgo> Fööbär! 19:47:47 <hppavilion1> `halp halp I can't edit hello world.py 19:47:48 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: halp: not found 19:48:25 <hppavilion1> `echo "print 'Hello, World!'" > script.py 19:48:25 <HackEgo> ​"print 'Hello, World!'" > script.py 19:48:26 <oerjan> hppavilion1: i said, you need to use `run to get a proper shell command 19:48:32 <hppavilion1> Oh right 19:48:40 <oerjan> `cat bin/döts 19:48:41 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ sed -re "y/aehiotuwxyAEIOUY/äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿÄËÏÖÜŸ/" 19:48:56 <hppavilion1> `run (echo "print 'Hello, World!'" > script.py) 19:48:58 <HackEgo> No output. 19:49:07 <hppavilion1> `python script.py 19:49:08 <HackEgo> Hello, World! 19:49:10 <hppavilion1> Yay 19:49:12 <hppavilion1> It works now 19:49:18 <FreeFull> `ls -l wisdom/reflection 19:49:19 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 19:49:23 <FreeFull> `run ls -l wisdom/reflection 19:49:24 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 18 Jun 9 16:46 wisdom/reflection -> /proc/self/cmdline 19:49:45 <boily> `` echo $'#!/bin/sh\nsed -re "y/aehiotuwxyAEHIOUWXY/äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿÄËḦÏÖÜẄẌŸ/"' >bin/döts && chmod a+x bin/döts && wisdom | döts 19:49:48 <HackEgo> fẗërnöön/Fẗërnöön ïs ẗḧë ẗïmë öf däÿ ẅḧën ẗḧë Dänës üsüällÿ ëäẗ ẗḧëïr fẗërnöönërs. 19:50:03 <boily> I can ẗ, but not on a T. what the fungot. 19:51:16 <hppavilion1> `run (echo"users = ['hppavilion1']"; echo "print 'These are the users who bothered to edit our file:'") > script.py 19:51:18 <HackEgo> bash: echousers = ['hppavilion1']: command not found 19:51:25 <hppavilion1> `run (echo "users = ['hppavilion1']"; echo "print 'These are the users who bothered to edit our file:'") > script.py 19:51:27 <HackEgo> No output. 19:51:36 <hppavilion1> `cat script.py 19:51:36 <HackEgo> users = ['hppavilion1'] \ print 'These are the users who bothered to edit our file:' 19:52:34 <hppavilion1> `run (echo "for x in users:"; echo " print("\t"+x)";) >> script.ppy 19:52:36 <HackEgo> No output. 19:52:37 <hppavilion1> `run (echo "for x in users:"; echo " print("\t"+x)";) >> script.py 19:52:39 <HackEgo> No output. 19:52:45 <hppavilion1> `cat script.py 19:52:46 <HackEgo> users = ['hppavilion1'] \ print 'These are the users who bothered to edit our file:' \ for x in users: \ print(t+x) 19:52:54 <hppavilion1> `python script.py 19:52:57 <edwardk> HackEgo: "A lens is just a store comonad coalgebra." -- that turns out to be a bit of a dead-end definition for a lens 19:52:59 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "script.py", line 4, in <module> \ print(t+x) \ NameError: name 't' is not defined \ These are the users who bothered to edit our file: 19:53:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: RIFT CHICKEN). 19:53:32 <oerjan> `` ls bin/print* 19:53:33 <HackEgo> bin/print_args_or_input 19:53:40 <oerjan> `cat bin/döts 19:53:40 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ sed -re "y/aehiotuwxyAEHIOUWXY/äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿÄËḦÏÖÜẄẌŸ/" 19:53:47 <hppavilion1> `run (echo "users = ['hppavilion1']"; echo "print 'These are the users who bothered to edit our file:'"; echo "for x in users:"; echo " print('\\t'+x)";) > script.py 19:53:48 <HackEgo> No output. 19:53:59 <hppavilion1> `python script.py 19:54:00 <HackEgo> These are the users who bothered to edit our file: \ hppavilion1 19:54:29 <oerjan> `` sed -i '2s/^/print_args_or_input "$@" | /' bin/döts 19:54:31 <HackEgo> No output. 19:54:35 <oerjan> `cat bin/döts 19:54:35 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ print_args_or_input "$@" | sed -re "y/aehiotuwxyAEHIOUWXY/äëḧïöẗüẅẍÿÄËḦÏÖÜẄẌŸ/" 19:54:39 <hppavilion1> `run (echo "users = ['hppavilion1']"; echo "print 'These are the users who bothered to edit our file:'"; echo "for x in users:"; echo " print(x+', ')";) > script.py 19:54:41 <HackEgo> No output. 19:54:49 <oerjan> `döts fee fi fum 19:54:50 <hppavilion1> `python script.py 19:54:51 <HackEgo> fëë fï füm 19:54:51 <HackEgo> These are the users who bothered to edit our file: \ hppavilion1, 19:55:31 <MDude> `döts 19:56:01 <HackEgo> No output. 19:56:06 <MDude> Anyway, I'll try to think of some things that aren't common in esolangs. 19:56:23 <oerjan> MDude: hm i think that might time out because it chooses the input path 19:56:53 <oerjan> `cat 19:57:00 <oerjan> `echo hi 19:57:01 <HackEgo> hi 19:57:08 <hppavilion1> `run (echo "import sys"; echo "print(sys.argv)") > argv.py 19:57:31 <oerjan> as in, HackEgo hangs up for a while if you try to read the command's stdin 19:57:36 <hppavilion1> Oh 19:57:48 <hppavilion1> AFK 19:57:52 <MDude> `döts sup 19:57:56 <HackEgo> No output. 19:57:56 <HackEgo> süp 19:57:58 <HackEgo> No output. 19:58:33 <MDude> `döts `wisdom 19:58:34 <HackEgo> ​`ẅïsdöm 19:59:28 <MDude> `run wisdom) > döts 19:59:29 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `)' \ bash: -c: line 0: `wisdom) > döts' 19:59:38 <oerjan> itym | 20:00:13 <oerjan> also that's what `wisdöm already does 20:00:21 <MDude> `run (wisdom) | döts 20:00:22 <HackEgo> ​ämïgä/Ämïgä ïs Spänïsḧ för ä fëmälë frïënd. 20:00:24 <MDude> I see. 20:00:33 -!- trout has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 20:00:42 <oerjan> `cat bin/welcöme 20:00:42 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | sed s/o/ö/g 20:01:00 <hppavilion1> It'd be awesome if we gave HackEgo a B****fuck interpreter 20:01:05 <oerjan> `` welcome test | döts 20:01:06 <HackEgo> ​ẗësẗ: Ẅëlcömë ẗö ẗḧë ïnẗërnäẗïönäl ḧüb för ësöẗërïc prögrämmïng längüägë dësïgn änd dëplöÿmënẗ! För mörë ïnförmäẗïön, cḧëck öüẗ öür ẅïkï: <ḧẗẗp://ësölängs.örg/>. (För ẗḧë öẗḧër kïnd öf ësöẗërïcä, ẗrÿ #ësöẗërïc ön ËFnëẗ ör D 20:01:16 <oerjan> hm as i feared it gets cut off 20:01:20 <vanila> this channel is just boring bot stuff :( 20:01:35 <oerjan> hppavilion1: it already has one 20:01:46 <hppavilion1> Oh 20:01:48 <hppavilion1> Dammit 20:01:51 <hppavilion1> What about Befunge? 20:01:57 <oerjan> `! bf ++++++++[->+++++++<]>. 20:01:58 <HackEgo> 8 20:02:23 <oerjan> i think it has befunge too although it's a bit tricky to give 2d input 20:02:23 <hppavilion1> Awesome 20:02:31 <hppavilion1> Yeah 20:02:51 <hppavilion1> You have to ctrl+v the newlines or something? 20:03:09 <oerjan> most of the esolang interpreters were imported from EgoBot so are done in this `! way 20:03:27 <hppavilion1> Ah 20:03:30 <oerjan> hppavilion1: you cannot ctrl+v newlines in IRC, i think 20:03:41 <hppavilion1> Oh :/ 20:03:42 <hppavilion1> Hm... 20:03:49 <hppavilion1> Do you have to \n it? 20:04:06 <oerjan> hppavilion1: hm _some_ of the interpreters support \n 20:04:21 <oerjan> i'm not sure what befunge does. or if we've even tested it in HackEgo. 20:04:29 <hppavilion1> I'm installing Skype4Py now 20:04:53 <hppavilion1> How about a stack-based messaging program? 20:04:56 <hppavilion1> That'd be interesting 20:05:04 <hppavilion1> Or queue-based 20:05:27 <hppavilion1> Anyone want to make that with me? 20:06:25 <oerjan> we tend to use lambdabot for messaging around here 20:06:32 <hppavilion1> I know 20:06:38 <hppavilion1> But this'd be a stack-based program 20:06:40 <oerjan> there's also MemoServ for the whole freenode. 20:06:46 <hppavilion1> Not for messaging anyone in particular 20:07:00 <vanila> just use pi calculus 20:07:02 <hppavilion1> Queue-based client works like this: 20:07:14 <oerjan> HackEgo has the limitation that it cannot tell people they have messages unless they ask... 20:07:19 <hppavilion1> \`enqueuemsg <message> 20:07:22 <hppavilion1> It's not for anyone 20:07:30 <hppavilion1> It's just a fun little program like `wisdome 20:07:33 <hppavilion1> *`wisdom 20:07:51 <hppavilion1> And anyone else can do `dequeuemsg 20:08:05 <hppavilion1> enqueuemsg adds a message to the back of the queue 20:08:07 <oerjan> heh 20:08:17 <hppavilion1> And dequeue message dequeues a message and prints int 20:08:19 <hppavilion1> *it 20:08:26 <hppavilion1> Doesn't that sound fun? 20:10:19 * oerjan doubts it will catch on 20:11:02 -!- hppavilion1_ has joined. 20:11:08 <hppavilion1_> I lost internet 20:11:11 * oerjan doubts it will catch on 20:11:12 <hppavilion1_> Doesn't that sound fun? 20:11:17 <hppavilion1_> It could 20:11:19 <hppavilion1_> It might now 20:11:20 <hppavilion1_> *not 20:11:22 <hppavilion1_> But it could 20:11:55 <oerjan> okay 20:11:59 <hppavilion1_> Want to try making it? 20:12:14 <oerjan> no, but feel free. it doesn't sound very hard. 20:12:18 <hppavilion1_> OK 20:12:28 * oerjan should get something to eat 20:12:32 <hppavilion1_> I need to know what libraries are available for python on this 20:12:39 <hppavilion1_> `ls 20:12:40 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ argv.py \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ blah \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ people.py \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elli 20:12:43 <vanila> hppavilion1_, write it in erlang 20:12:47 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:12:51 <hppavilion1_> I don't know erlang 20:12:56 <tswett> .u РҮРРУ 20:12:59 <vanila> that isn't a problem 20:13:04 <tswett> `unidecode РҮРРУ 20:13:06 <HackEgo> ​[U+0420 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ER] [U+04AE CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER STRAIGHT U] [U+0420 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ER] [U+0420 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER ER] [U+0423 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER U] 20:13:06 <hppavilion1_> Do you know erlang? 20:13:08 <vanila> yeah 20:13:21 <hppavilion1_> Why don't you do it then? If it'd be best done in erlang 20:13:25 <hppavilion1_> `pip 20:13:26 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pip: not found 20:13:30 <hppavilion1_> Dammit 20:13:34 <hppavilion1_> No pip 20:13:52 <oerjan> erlang doesn't sound particularly well suited, given that HackEgo cannot have persistently running programs. 20:13:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:14:01 <hppavilion1_> Exactly 20:14:09 <hppavilion1_> We'd need to save the queue to a file 20:14:16 <hppavilion1_> I was going to use pickle 20:15:06 <oerjan> HackEgo commands don't really have net access btw, except `fetch which cannot be used from other commands. 20:15:39 <oerjan> there's a system for accessing _some_ web sites, but i think it's currently broken. 20:16:08 <hppavilion1_> Eeeee-vry-thing is broken 20:16:21 <hppavilion1_> No-o-othing works on this IRC 20:16:38 <oerjan> HackEgo is a bit broken. 20:16:53 <hppavilion1_> (to the tune of "Everything is Awesome" 20:17:31 <hppavilion1_> ) 20:18:36 <hppavilion1_> Ooh 20:18:44 <hppavilion1_> Let's make a `willhalt command 20:18:45 <hppavilion1_> :P 20:19:16 <oerjan> on HackEgo, echo Yes pretty well does that. 20:19:23 <hppavilion1_> Works in O(infinity) 20:19:28 <hppavilion1_> Big picture person, I take it? 20:19:38 <oerjan> what 20:19:43 <hppavilion1_> I vote we acually make that command 20:19:48 <oerjan> also, what happened to my eating. 20:20:00 -!- neo__ has joined. 20:20:06 <hppavilion1_> Hi neoo 20:20:11 <hppavilion1_> *neo__ 20:20:15 -!- nys has joined. 20:20:18 <neo__> Hello World. 20:20:24 <hppavilion1_> We were just making a `willhalt command 20:20:26 <hppavilion1_> That's my joke >:( 20:20:35 <neo__> What's you joke? 20:20:36 <hppavilion1_> `relcome neo__ 20:20:45 <HackEgo> ​neo__: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 20:21:24 <neo__> I think the ESOLs have been very well implemented. 20:21:30 <hppavilion1_> Awesome 20:21:38 <hppavilion1_> `wisdom 20:21:39 <HackEgo> just intonation/Bad-tempered people can be recognized by just intonation. 20:21:46 <neo__> Ever think about regular languages? 20:21:52 <hppavilion1_> Sometimes 20:21:54 <neo__> Natural language, human to human. 20:21:59 <hppavilion1_> Ah 20:22:01 <hppavilion1_> That kind 20:22:02 <hppavilion1_> Never 20:22:03 <hppavilion1_> :P 20:22:13 <hppavilion1_> We probably do 20:22:15 <neo__> Persuasion, finding the right words to convince someone of something. 20:22:18 <hppavilion1_> I've only been on a few days 20:22:23 <neo__> Mind hacking. 20:22:39 <hppavilion1_> Yep 20:22:39 <hppavilion1_> Ooh 20:22:45 <hppavilion1_> Esoteric Natural Languages 20:23:02 <hppavilion1_> Mind hacking. Or, if you will, brainfucking 20:23:09 <neo__> Exactly. 20:23:13 <neo__> You guys got it. 20:23:38 <neo__> #RURNM 20:23:45 <hppavilion1_> I don't get it 20:23:51 <hppavilion1_> `python script.py 20:23:54 <HackEgo> These are the users who bothered to edit our file: \ hppavilion1, 20:23:58 <neo__> Maybe not yet, but you will. 20:24:05 <MDude> Is that a channel for conlangs or something? 20:24:10 <neo__> e^i*tau=phi 20:24:23 <hppavilion1_> Interesting 20:24:26 <hppavilion1_> What are conlangs? 20:24:42 <Taneb> hppavilion1_, constructed (spoken) languages 20:24:44 <MDude> Constructel languages. 20:24:49 <hppavilion1_> Oh 20:24:56 <hppavilion1_> Taneb!? 20:25:11 <neo__> 42=54 20:25:13 <MDude> Nope, no one in #RURNM 20:25:18 <neo__> If you do the math right. 20:25:30 <neo__> #RURNM is on twitter and the net. 20:25:36 <neo__> Haven't started IRC yet 20:25:46 <hppavilion1_> Well MDude did 20:25:49 <hppavilion1_> And now he's the admin 20:25:54 <neo__> That still needs to be implemented. 20:25:57 <neo__> Oh, he just did that. 20:26:02 <MDude> UNLIMITED POWERRRRRRR 20:26:03 <neo__> It worked! 20:26:08 <MDude> I still have no idea what it is. 20:26:16 <hppavilion1_> No one does 20:26:23 <hppavilion1_> I think neo's just brainfucking with us 20:26:32 * hppavilion1_ made a bad pun 20:27:34 <MDude> https://twitter.com/hashtag/RURNM?src=hash 20:27:40 <MDude> Well there's one tweet with it. 20:27:47 <MDude> Maybe it was a typo. 20:27:48 <tswett> `? lobby 20:27:49 <HackEgo> lobby? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:27:56 <neo__> There have been more. 20:28:00 <hppavilion1_> `? `? 20:28:01 <HackEgo> ​`? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:28:02 <neo__> logging off for now 20:28:07 -!- neo__ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:28:24 <hppavilion1_> `learn `? Woooow you're sooooooooo metaaaa- No. 20:28:29 <HackEgo> Learned '`?': `? Woooow you're sooooooooo metaaaa- No. 20:28:33 <hppavilion1_> `? `? 20:28:34 <HackEgo> ​`? Woooow you're sooooooooo metaaaa- No. 20:29:23 <tswett> `unidecode - 20:29:23 <HackEgo> ​[U+002D HYPHEN-MINUS] 20:29:42 <tswett> Might want that to be an em dash. 20:30:37 <MDude> I would have answered that with "Are you looking for '`? The Riddler' or '`? Matthew Lesko''". 20:31:16 <hppavilion1_> I prefer mine 20:38:25 <tswett> I prefer my version. 20:39:01 <oerjan> `revert 20:39:12 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 20:39:28 <oerjan> if you paid proper attention, you'd have noticed that wasn't a nonexisting entry hth 20:39:58 <hppavilion1_> Oh 20:40:09 <hppavilion1_> That's very well-hidden 20:41:05 <hppavilion1_> I think the original was better than mine 20:41:08 <hppavilion1_> `? `? 20:41:09 <HackEgo> ​`? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:42:26 <hppavilion1_> `? hth 20:42:28 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 20:43:15 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:43:15 <HackEgo> hat/hatee-hatee-hatee-hooo 20:44:25 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:45:57 <zzo38> How to modify the software in a Motorola cable box? Or is there a hardware modification that can remove the on-screen-display? 20:46:09 <tswett> `cat wisdom/`? 20:46:10 <HackEgo> ​`? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:46:16 <tswett> Yup. 20:46:43 <zzo38> Or some other way to force it not to display 20:47:35 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:47:37 <HackEgo> gazpacho/You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 20:47:52 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/gazpacho # hth 20:47:56 <HackEgo> No output. 20:49:32 <hppavilion1_> ب_ب 20:49:35 <hppavilion1_> `? 20:49:38 <HackEgo> ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:50:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:51:12 <oerjan> `` grep -Rl ' ' wisdom 20:51:15 <HackEgo> wisdom/haskell \ wisdom/turkey \ wisdom/spam \ wisdom/oerjan_ \ wisdom/gaspacho \ wisdom/finnish \ wisdom/sweden \ wisdom/ocean \ wisdom/ci \ wisdom/reflection \ wisdom/atrix \ wisdom/rtf \ wisdom/irrelevant info \ wisdom/ostrich \ wisdom/htdh \ wisdom/burlesque \ wisdom/canary 20:51:55 <oerjan> `cat canary 20:51:55 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \ 20:52:03 <oerjan> wtf 20:52:25 <int-e> `` ls -lad canary 20:52:27 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 5 Jun 21 18:44 canary -> bin/? 20:52:34 <int-e> no further questions 20:53:03 <int-e> `culprits canary 20:53:05 <oerjan> oh right it was that link test 20:53:06 <HackEgo> ais523 shachaf ais523 oerjan oerjan ais523 oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan ais523 ais523 ais523 shachaf int-e oerjan elliott elliott elliott elliott elliott elliott elliott ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull c00kiemon5ter Phantom_Hoover elliott oerjan shachaf elliott ais523 elliott ais523 nitia 20:53:47 <oerjan> `` rm canary; echo Spjong >canary 20:53:49 <HackEgo> No output. 20:54:00 <oerjan> `? canary 20:54:00 <HackEgo> Spjong 20:54:16 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:54:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:54:16 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:55:08 <oerjan> `? turkey 20:55:09 <HackEgo> Turkey was the center of an empire that gobbled up much of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, something which brought them into conflict with Ostrich. In the 19th century the overstuffed empire started declining, and after the Great War it was cut up like so much Shish Kebab. 20:55:11 <oerjan> `? ostrich 20:55:14 <HackEgo> Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire in frequent conflict with Turkey. After a famine it sort of split into Ostrich/Hungry. Alas its policy of keeping its head in the sand did not get it through the Great War, and with its final attempts to take flight failing, it ended up cut into several pieces. 20:55:41 <oerjan> `` run sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/turkey wisdom/ostrich 20:55:42 <HackEgo> run run run 20:55:46 <oerjan> oops 20:55:50 -!- hppavilion1_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:55:51 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/turkey wisdom/ostrich 20:55:52 <HackEgo> No output. 20:56:13 <oerjan> `? gaspacho 20:56:14 <HackEgo> You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 20:56:33 <oerjan> `? sweden 20:56:34 <HackEgo> Sweden is the suburb capital of Norway. It's where all the Nobel prizes are announced, except the Math Prize. 20:56:53 <oerjan> `? ocean 20:56:54 <HackEgo> The Pacific Ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The Atlantic Ocean is less cool than its giant underwater mountain range. The Arctic Ocean is cold. The Indian Ocean is full of typhoons and non-Eurocentric shipping. 20:57:15 <oerjan> wait where is the / / in that 20:57:33 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/{gaspacho,sweden} 20:57:40 <HackEgo> No output. 20:58:32 <oerjan> `? finnish 20:58:33 <HackEgo> Finnish suomalaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapeliittaan. Ei saa peittää. Parasta ennen! 20:58:39 <nortti> :D 20:58:42 <oerjan> `? spam 20:58:44 <HackEgo> Spam is a delicious meat product. See http://www.spamjamhawaii.com/ 20:58:57 <oerjan> `? ci 20:58:58 <HackEgo> The CIs are a secret society led by David Morgan-Mar, bent on conquering the world from Sydney with web comics and unsolvable puzzles. They invented Taneb. 20:59:20 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ / /g' wisdom/{finnish,spam,ci} 20:59:21 <HackEgo> No output. 20:59:34 -!- variable has joined. 20:59:41 <oerjan> `? atrix 20:59:41 <HackEgo> Atrix is a brand of hand cream. Not to be confused with atriq. 20:59:55 <oerjan> `? rtf 20:59:56 <HackEgo> RTF stands for Rich's Text Format, invented by Rich Burlew. In addition to plain text it supports simple stick figures. 21:00:00 <oerjan> `? htdh 21:00:01 <HackEgo> HtDH is a classic text on How to Design Hotdogs or possibly Hogprams. It is all about functional condiments, and was co-authored by Herence Tao and Don Ho. 21:00:19 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ / /g' wisdom/{atrix,rtf,htdh} 21:00:23 <HackEgo> No output. 21:00:53 <oerjan> `? oerjan_ 21:00:54 <HackEgo> oerjan_ is oerjan and ørjan's chimæric clone. he shows up on irc when the network is having trouble. 21:00:57 <shachaf> oerjan: whoa 21:01:09 <oerjan> `? irrelevant info 21:01:10 <HackEgo> KHL?%y9vnkM_v46$Tn`ʋxkH2gqH;!;2F(zإ2CmXW 21:01:14 <oerjan> `? burlesque 21:01:15 <HackEgo> Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque) 21:01:43 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ / /g' wisdom/{oerjan_,burlesque} 21:01:44 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 21:01:45 <HackEgo> No output. 21:01:57 <hppavilion1> `? No Output 21:01:57 <HackEgo> No Output? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:02:06 <oerjan> `` grep -Rl ' ' wisdom 21:02:07 <HackEgo> wisdom/haskell \ wisdom/ocean \ wisdom/reflection \ wisdom/irrelevant info \ wisdom/ostrich 21:02:16 <hppavilion1> `? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:02:17 <HackEgo> ​¯\(°​_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:02:17 <myndzi> | 21:02:17 <myndzi> º¯`\o 21:02:29 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ / /g' wisdom/{ostrich} 21:02:30 <HackEgo> sed: can't read wisdom/{ostrich}: No such file or directory 21:02:38 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ / /g' wisdom/ostrich 21:02:41 <HackEgo> No output. 21:02:48 <oerjan> `? haskell 21:02:48 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 21:02:53 <shachaf> what's wrong with double spaces 21:03:01 <oerjan> `? ocean 21:03:02 <HackEgo> The Pacific Ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The Atlantic Ocean is less cool than its giant underwater mountain range. The Arctic Ocean is cold. The Indian Ocean is full of typhoons and non-Eurocentric shipping. 21:03:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:03:38 <ais523> programming terminology I really like: "truthy"/"falsey" referring to how if-like constructs see the truth values of things that aren't booleans 21:03:40 <oerjan> `` grep ' ' wisdom/ocean 21:03:40 <HackEgo> The Pacific Ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The Atlantic Ocean is less cool than its giant underwater mountain range. The Arctic Ocean is cold. The Indian Ocean is full of typhoons and non-Eurocentric shipping. 21:03:43 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:03:48 <oerjan> wtf is the ' ' 21:04:05 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ *$/' wisdom/ocean 21:04:06 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 6: unterminated `s' command 21:04:09 -!- mihow has joined. 21:04:11 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/ *$//' wisdom/ocean 21:04:12 <shachaf> `` echo -n '['; cat wisdom/ocean; echo -n ']' 21:04:13 <HackEgo> No output. 21:04:14 <HackEgo> ​[The Pacific Ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The Atlantic Ocean is less cool than its giant underwater mountain range. The Arctic Ocean is cold. The Indian Ocean is full of typhoons and non-Eurocentric shipping. \ ] 21:04:26 <shachaf> foiled 21:04:45 <oerjan> `` grep -Rl ' ' wisdom 21:04:46 <HackEgo> wisdom/haskell \ wisdom/reflection \ wisdom/irrelevant info 21:04:51 <oerjan> DONE 21:05:04 <shachaf> why do you hate double spaces so much 21:05:04 <oerjan> shachaf: some people seem to hate them tdnh 21:05:21 <shachaf> the real question is why do you hate inconsistency 21:05:27 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 21:05:32 <shachaf> i was fine with fixing them opportunistically 21:05:48 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:05:49 <HackEgo> algol/ALGOL stands for A Programming Language 21:06:19 <shachaf> `learn ALOGL is a logarithmic language. 21:06:21 <HackEgo> Learned 'alogl': ALOGL is a logarithmic language. 21:08:59 <oren_> `wisdom 21:09:01 <HackEgo> firefly/FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. 21:09:15 <oren_> `wisdom 21:09:16 <HackEgo> mauke/mauke is a Master Archer. Caution! He can shoot your PRIVMSG with creative arrows! 21:09:22 <oren_> `wisdom 21:09:23 <HackEgo> right/Right is not two wrongs but three lefts. 21:09:41 <oren_> `wisdom 21:09:42 <HackEgo> group/groups are just loops with the property of associativity 21:09:54 <oren_> `wisdom 21:09:56 <HackEgo> ​@/@ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour 21:10:02 <oren_> `wisdom 21:10:03 <HackEgo> zimbabwe/olsner's desk points zimbabwards. it is highly dependent on tswett's michiganic orientation. 21:10:10 <oren_> `wisdom 21:10:11 <HackEgo> browser/A browser is a Gopher client for convenient access to Gopher services and documents. 21:10:23 <oren_> `wisdom 21:10:24 <HackEgo> koen/Koen vit au haut de la Tour Eiffel (coordonnées approximatives). 21:10:32 <oren_> `wisdom 21:10:33 <HackEgo> go/Go is a common verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in the strategic territories of East Asia. 21:10:38 <oren_> `wisdom 21:10:39 <HackEgo> lifthrasiir/lifthrasiir is shunned by the rest of his country for being no good at League of Legends. 21:10:44 <oren_> `wisdom 21:10:45 <HackEgo> brainfuck/brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. 21:10:51 <oren_> `wisdom 21:10:52 <HackEgo> ​¯\(°_o)/¯\(°_o)a/ 21:10:53 <myndzi> | | 21:10:53 <myndzi> º¯`\o o/`¯º 21:11:11 <oren_> `wisdom 21:11:12 <HackEgo> apt-get/apt-get installs whatever you wanted, plus whatever Mark Shuttleworth wanted. 21:11:21 <oren_> heh 21:11:36 <oren_> `? heh 21:11:37 <HackEgo> heh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:11:49 <oren_> `? lol 21:11:50 <HackEgo> lol? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:11:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:12:20 <oren_> `le/rn lol/lol stands for laughing out legends 21:12:23 <HackEgo> Learned «lol» 21:12:59 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:14:24 <oerjan> `learn heh stands for hope ectoplasm helps. 21:14:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'heh': heh stands for hope ectoplasm helps. 21:15:41 <oerjan> darn now i had an idea for lol 21:16:15 <oerjan> oh hm 21:16:21 <oerjan> `` ls e* 21:16:22 <HackEgo> error.log \ \ emoticons: \ gaaan \ gaan \ kyaa \ shrug \ useless \ \ etc: \ luarocks 21:16:40 <oerjan> `` echo lol >emoticons/drowning 21:16:42 <HackEgo> No output. 21:16:56 <oerjan> hth 21:21:55 <oren_> `` echo o凸 21:21:56 <HackEgo> o凸 21:22:08 <oren_> `` echo o凸 >emoticons/flipbird 21:22:11 <HackEgo> No output. 21:22:34 <oerjan> why the o? 21:22:42 <oren_> `` echo 凸 >emoticons/flipbird 21:22:44 <HackEgo> No output. 21:23:06 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 21:23:11 <oerjan> `unidecode 凸 21:23:12 <HackEgo> ​[U+51F8 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-51F8] 21:23:40 <oerjan> that doesn't look very CJK 21:24:41 <oren_> It is apparently used in the word 凸凹 (dekoboko) meaning bumpy 21:26:06 <oren_> hmm those are fun kanji to write 21:26:15 <ais523> is that the kanji version of onomatopoeia? 21:27:20 <oren_> yeah. 21:27:23 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 21:31:56 <oren_> There are only a few kanji which are unequivocally pictograms... 21:35:53 <pikhq> Rather a lot more if you count kanji which began life as pictograms. 21:36:08 <oren_> Hmm, like 犬? 21:36:30 <pikhq> e.g. 虎, 鳥, 馬... 21:36:46 <hppavilion1> Self-Modifying Brainfuck 21:36:53 <oren_> Been done 21:37:10 <hppavilion1> Brainfuck-Derived Self-Modifying Language 21:37:14 <hppavilion1> BDSMLang 21:37:15 <hppavilion1> :P 21:37:16 <pikhq> Oh, and 龍. Can't forget that one. 21:37:22 <oren_> 雨 is one that still looks like its meaning 21:37:25 <fowl> Brain-modifying self-fuck 21:37:39 <hppavilion1> ... 21:37:41 <hppavilion1> Kewlzez. 21:38:12 <hppavilion1> I still need an EsoMULang 21:38:39 <hppavilion1> Oooh 21:38:44 <hppavilion1> Self-Modifying Markup 21:39:33 <oren_> uh... what? 21:39:54 <hppavilion1> Just let it sink in 21:39:56 <fowl> Up modifying markself 21:40:15 <pikhq> So there's about 600 that are literally pictograms (mutated or otherwise) 21:41:51 -!- hppavilion1_ has joined. 21:43:19 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:43:20 <oren_> oh right, 串 21:43:33 <oren_> menaing shishkabobs 21:44:08 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:54:01 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:55:52 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:58:29 -!- hppavilion1_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:03:08 -!- mihow has joined. 22:05:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 22:05:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Markup Language]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43269 * Hppavilion1 * (+2023) Created Page 22:07:15 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 22:07:32 <hppavilion1> Yaaaaay I wrote a language that actually has a specification 22:09:42 <myname> i am tempted to write the rainbow 22:15:15 <oren_> hppavilion1: so the BF program is interpreted on a 36-bit BF? 22:15:22 <oren_> cool! 22:17:16 <hppavilion1> Yes 22:17:19 <hppavilion1> It is 22:17:23 <hppavilion1> oren_ 22:17:38 <hppavilion1> (Retroactive name: ing) 22:18:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Markup Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43270&oldid=43269 * Hppavilion1 * (+9) 36 bit Brainfuck 22:18:53 <hppavilion1> myname: Do it. DO IT. 22:24:13 -!- boily has joined. 22:25:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Markup Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43271&oldid=43270 * Hppavilion1 * (+423) Variants. 22:27:53 <hppavilion1> Why won't links to categories show? 22:28:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Markup Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43272&oldid=43271 * Hppavilion1 * (+62) Equivalents (Why won't links to categories show?) 22:28:19 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:29:25 -!- quintopia has joined. 22:29:29 <myname> well, not now 22:29:37 <hppavilion1> Oh 22:29:42 <myname> it's half past twelve here 22:29:44 <hppavilion1> Well Do it. DO IT. Later. 22:29:45 <hppavilion1> :P 22:30:42 <myname> hppavilion1: feature request: you should be able to get the number of chars 22:30:58 <hppavilion1> Sure 22:31:10 <hppavilion1> Is that inclusive of the first line? 22:31:16 <myname> i'd do something like "the first cell contains the length and is omitted in regards of formating" 22:31:24 <hppavilion1> OK 22:31:31 <hppavilion1> Yeah 22:31:36 <hppavilion1> That's definitely a good idea 22:31:36 <myname> like: i want to rainvow everything 22:31:49 <myname> for this i need to know how many cells to write 22:31:59 <myname> or i have to loop forever 22:32:08 <hppavilion1> Is your Esolangs username myname? 22:32:14 <hppavilion1> I'd like to credit you 22:32:17 <myname> not sure if the number in the first cdml is a good idea, though 22:32:23 <myname> it would.breal the base 36 22:32:28 <myname> *break 22:32:33 <myname> let me sleep over it 22:32:41 <hppavilion1> True 22:32:48 <hppavilion1> Hm... 22:33:15 <hppavilion1> Well it could be that BFML isn't 36-bit brainfuck so much as 36+-bit brainfuck 22:33:20 <hppavilion1> I'll go with that 22:33:56 <myname> well, it has several other disadvantages 22:34:07 <hppavilion1> Or we could make it so , always inputs the program length... 22:34:18 <myname> thatks what i thought, too 22:34:55 <myname> better: , inputs the number of the text minus the position of the current cell 22:35:18 <myname> so if , returns 0 you can break out of a loop because you formatted everything 22:35:33 <hppavilion1> Oh 22:35:44 <hppavilion1> It would return the current character count? 22:35:53 <myname> example 22:36:07 <myname> "Hello world" is 11 chars wide 22:36:54 <myname> [[-]+>,] would bold.everything 22:36:58 <myname> oh 22:37:04 <myname> , in the front, too 22:37:11 <myname> the first , would give 11 22:37:15 <myname> the second 10 22:37:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Markup Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43273&oldid=43272 * Hppavilion1 * (+111) , command 22:37:18 <myname> the third 9 22:37:21 <myname> and so on 22:37:53 <myname> you would zero the current cell out, make it a 1 for bold and move to the next cell 22:38:12 <hppavilion1> OK 22:38:15 <myname> if , reads 0 you are actually behind the whole sting 22:38:38 <hppavilion1> Excellent idea 22:38:50 <myname> variations that don't break base 36: , only returns 0 or 1 22:39:03 <hppavilion1> Kewlzezz 22:39:06 <hppavilion1> Then again 22:39:14 <hppavilion1> 2**36==68,719,476,736 22:39:20 <hppavilion1> >>>True 22:39:54 <hppavilion1> I have to go eat dinner 22:39:58 <hppavilion1> I'll be back in a bit 22:40:47 <hppavilion1> OK 22:40:52 <hppavilion1> Not quite yet 22:41:38 <hppavilion1> myname: Can I get your esolangs account so I don't lose track of you? 22:42:13 <myname> it's myname, but i am here practically all the time, too 22:42:32 <hppavilion1> If I remove 4 bits from text size it's base 32 and much neater 22:42:36 <hppavilion1> Should I do that? 22:43:12 <hppavilion1> No... 22:43:21 <hppavilion1> That makes the max text size 16 22:43:58 <myname> if you make , return 0 or 1 your text size isn't limited 22:44:10 <myname> it'd actually become eof check 22:44:26 <hppavilion1> OK 22:45:30 <hppavilion1> How about we use a different character for eof detector? 22:45:33 <hppavilion1> Like % 22:45:44 <hppavilion1> Or . would be nice 22:45:45 <hppavilion1> Yes 22:45:50 <hppavilion1> . is the eof detector 22:46:31 <myname> why so? 22:46:58 <myname> it's pretty confusing since in normal bf . does not change the cells 22:47:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Markup Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43274&oldid=43273 * Hppavilion1 * (+29) . operator 22:47:22 <myname> but i do think not having only 0 and 1 is also nice 22:47:23 <hppavilion1> Well the period means the end of a setnence 22:47:30 <hppavilion1> Both are nice 22:47:47 <hppavilion1> 1 and 0 is cleaner and allows for infinte file length 22:47:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:47:52 <hppavilion1> Let's go with that 22:48:09 <myname> another idea: , could be (text size - cell pos) mod 35 + 1 22:48:18 <hppavilion1> Sure 22:48:24 <hppavilion1> You can edit it into the page 22:48:30 <hppavilion1> Just be sure to explain it 22:48:35 <myname> in this way you always have > 0 on text and 0 on eof 22:48:56 <boily> hppavilion1: in which time zone are you? what are your approximative coördinates and body weigh? 22:49:10 <hppavilion1> Currently I'm on michigan time 22:49:15 <hppavilion1> As a rule I'm usually on AKST 22:49:41 <hppavilion1> Well, I'm usually on Hong Kong time but I _should_ be on AKST :P 22:49:51 <boily> uuuuuh... 22:50:28 <pikhq> Could I get that in UTC offset? 22:50:56 <pikhq> Is that intended to be Alaska's time zone? 22:51:06 <hppavilion1> 42.8298539,-84.2789851,16z 22:51:26 <hppavilion1> 52.163 kg 22:51:30 <hppavilion1> I have to go eat dinner 22:51:33 <hppavilion1> Be back in a bit 22:51:52 <boily> pikhq: michigan is probably -5. hong kong is +9. 22:52:04 <pikhq> I didn't know what AKST was. 23:02:16 <boily> @metar KLAN 23:02:16 <lambdabot> KLAN 242253Z 26006KT 10SM CLR 24/12 A3009 RMK AO2 SLP189 T02440122 23:04:08 <tswett> Michigan is -5 outside of Move the Clocks Forward For a While Time. 23:05:19 <hppavilion1> OK 23:05:19 <hppavilion1> Back 23:10:16 <hppavilion1> * 23:10:48 <boily> *? 23:10:56 <hppavilion1> Oh 23:11:00 <boily> eh? 23:11:12 <hppavilion1> I thought that was a "Alert all" thing 23:11:27 <hppavilion1> myname? 23:11:57 <hppavilion1> Or does the ? break it 23:11:59 <hppavilion1> myname 23:13:11 <myname> yeah 23:13:19 <myname> i am almost sleeping 23:13:21 <hppavilion1> Oh 23:13:23 <hppavilion1> OK 23:13:44 <myname> i will write stuff in a bunch of hours 23:13:44 <hppavilion1> I'm considering implementing a befunge-like EsoMULang 23:13:46 <hppavilion1> OK 23:14:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:Markup Languages]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43275 * Hppavilion1 * (+20) Created Page 23:16:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Markup Language]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43276&oldid=43274 * Hppavilion1 * (+20) Categories 23:17:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Markup Language]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43277&oldid=43276 * Hppavilion1 * (+0) 23:18:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Markup Language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43278&oldid=43277 * Hppavilion1 * (+18) 2015 23:19:03 <hppavilion1> `clear 23:19:13 -!- lleu has joined. 23:19:19 <hppavilion1> Hello lleu 23:19:21 <HackEgo> ​[H[J 23:19:37 <hppavilion1> Been around here before? 23:20:29 <boily> haven't seen them talk yet, but they've been joining the chännel for a while. 23:20:38 <hppavilion1> Oh 23:20:52 <hppavilion1> So how should my BMU work? 23:21:04 <hppavilion1> I don't want it to just be befunge marking up text 23:21:07 <zzo38> I don't know how? 23:21:15 -!- llue has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:21:23 <hppavilion1> And I definitely don't want something like the output of the stack joined together in HTML 23:22:00 <hppavilion1> Heh 23:22:06 <hppavilion1> "Joined together in HTML" 23:22:45 <hppavilion1> `learn HTMarriageL I now pronounce you Markup Language and StyleSheet Language 23:22:49 <HackEgo> Learned 'htmarriagel': HTMarriageL I now pronounce you Markup Language and StyleSheet Language 23:23:12 <hppavilion1> OOOR I could make a stylesheet language for BFML 23:24:51 <hppavilion1> Is that a better idea? 23:27:07 <boily> stylesheet languages for this kind of thing resembles syntax hiliting hth 23:33:19 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:37:17 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 23:37:29 <hppavilion1> I'm back 23:39:53 <hppavilion1> If anyone's there... 23:41:20 <boily> you're still stuck with me. 23:45:08 <zzo38> I am on here, but, still I don't quite know by now. 23:47:03 <boily> `wisdom 23:47:06 <HackEgo> lifthrasiir/lifthrasiir is shunned by the rest of his country for being no good at League of Legends. 23:47:28 <boily> I think I have Starcraft about him... 23:47:55 <boily> ah no. it's LoL. 23:48:03 <shachaf> `wisdom 23:48:04 <HackEgo> internationale/You have been reported to the House Un-American Activities Committee 23:48:34 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/internationale 23:48:37 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull oerjan FreeFull oerjan FreeFull oerjan 23:48:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43279 * Hppavilion1 * (+320) Created Page 23:49:40 <shachaf> oerjan: i thought the internationale united the human race 23:50:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Purely Functional Imperative Language]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43280 * Hppavilion1 * (+11) Filler 23:51:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Ideas]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43281 * Hppavilion1 * (+102) Created Page 23:57:16 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 23:58:52 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:59:30 -!- fowl has joined. 2015-06-25: 00:00:53 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 00:01:08 <hppavilion1> So 00:01:17 <hppavilion1> Let's get down to business 00:01:25 <hppavilion1> To defeat the Hun 00:01:32 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 00:03:00 <oren_> did they send me daughters when I asked for sons 00:03:30 -!- fowl has joined. 00:07:46 -!- egrep has joined. 00:11:16 * boily wields his trusty mapole 00:14:34 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:15:34 -!- egrep has left ("Huh."). 00:33:16 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:34:05 -!- heroux has joined. 00:35:11 -!- Herbalist has joined. 00:48:15 -!- adu has joined. 00:48:34 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:48:47 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 00:49:13 <hppavilion1> Sooooo.... 00:54:18 <boily> ...ooooooo... ♪ 00:54:44 <vanila> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ 00:54:45 <myndzi> | | | | | 00:54:45 <myndzi> >\ /´\ |\ /< >\ 00:54:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Languages]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43282 * Hppavilion1 * (+251) Created Page 00:57:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Table]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43283 * Hppavilion1 * (+156) Created page with "This is a kewlzez language. Can you improve the specification? --~~~~" 01:01:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Table]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43284&oldid=43258 * Hppavilion1 * (-141) 01:09:04 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 01:13:09 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:23:26 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:24:35 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 01:25:30 -!- fowl has joined. 01:26:08 <hppavilion1> Hi all 01:26:15 <hppavilion1> boily: You on? 01:27:12 <boily> if I'm logged in, I exist. it's a Canadian thing: intermittent corporeality. 01:27:29 <hppavilion1> Huh 01:27:31 <hppavilion1> Interesting 01:27:47 <hppavilion1> Do you do implementation? 01:28:46 <boily> it was a running gag some time ago, where Canada's existence wasn't proved yet. 01:28:56 <boily> I do implement stuff, yes. 01:29:01 <hppavilion1> Cool 01:29:17 <hppavilion1> There's this really good one that you may have been on when it was being discussed 01:29:28 <boily> hm? 01:29:33 <hppavilion1> I think it has potential to _actually_ be useful 01:29:35 <hppavilion1> Table 01:29:43 <hppavilion1> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Table 01:31:27 <boily> vying for TCness is usually the First Step©® for having a useful programming language hth 01:32:15 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:32:19 <oren_> Eh, TCness isn't reall necessary to be useful 01:32:23 <shachaf> boily: turing completeness is scow 01:32:30 <hppavilion1> It wouldn't be directly based on the original design 01:32:30 <HackEgo> codensity/Codensity is just mass per volume with all the arrows reversed. 01:32:31 <shachaf> you gotta work hard to avoid it but it's worth it 01:33:46 <hppavilion1> What langs do you use for implementing? 01:34:44 <hppavilion1> I have to go AFK for a few minutes 01:34:56 * boily ducktapes a piece of cardboard with "PRO COMPLETENESS" written on it on his mapole and manifests while shouting random slogans 01:35:33 <boily> whatever's handy. if I were to implement an esointerpreter now, I'd be using Python. 01:35:44 <boily> (perhaps even Java, if I'm feeling particularly evil for the day.) 01:38:49 -!- hppavilion_ has joined. 01:39:04 <hppavilion_> I use Python cause I'm a softcore goodass 01:40:26 <hppavilion_> boily ? 01:40:30 <boily> yes? 01:40:32 <hppavilion_> `? boily 01:40:33 <HackEgo> boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. 01:40:51 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:40:53 <HackEgo> fungot/fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. 01:41:04 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/fungot 01:41:04 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:41:08 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan elliott boily Bike FreeFull oerjan FreeFull shachaf shachaf nitia 01:41:09 <hppavilion_> What langs do you implement in?? 01:41:18 <boily> oh, you were timing out. 01:41:25 <shachaf> `? nitia 01:41:26 <hppavilion_> Yes 01:41:26 <HackEgo> nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. 01:41:32 <hppavilion_> ... 01:41:32 <boily> I said that I use Python, or maybe even Java if I'm feeling evil. 01:41:37 <hppavilion_> Oh 01:41:39 <hppavilion_> Awesome 01:42:00 <hppavilion_> I've been looking for someone who uses python to implement :P 01:42:04 <boily> I implemented quite a non-homeopathic quantity of esolangs in Ruby, too. but that was back in the day, and haven't touched that in a few years. 01:42:26 <hppavilion_> Cool 01:43:08 <boily> I may have done one or two in perl. 01:43:29 * hppavilion_ laughs silently at the phrase "non-homeopathic" 01:43:48 <hppavilion_> That's cool 01:44:03 <hppavilion_> So do you want to try to implement an improved variant on Table? 01:44:51 <boily> I could coach you :) 01:45:05 <boily> do you have a working draft atm? 01:45:10 <hppavilion_> Not yet 01:45:15 <hppavilion_> That's where I was going to start 01:45:32 <hppavilion_> Well, I was going to start with the specification 01:45:52 <hppavilion_> I'm basing it on Haskell and the original doc 01:46:52 <hppavilion_> I decided that as a Working and possibly Final name, I'm calling this derivative Peano 01:47:32 <hppavilion_> I have Weird capitalization habits 01:48:25 <hppavilion_> https://docs.google.com/document/d/15IhFJ9patZ-CINalHAyDMTxfdwyopGnkiZBtAljBVYY/edit?usp=sharing 01:49:30 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:49:32 <HackEgo> apt-get/apt-get installs whatever you wanted, plus whatever Mark Shuttleworth wanted. 01:49:55 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:49:58 <HackEgo> phantom_______hoover/It doesn't get any better than this. 01:50:04 <boily> hppavilion_: don't worry. I have weird malamanteau habits. 01:50:07 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:50:08 <HackEgo> php/php is the PigeonHole Principle 01:51:06 <hppavilion_> I get that reference... 01:51:21 <hppavilion_> That is, itself, a reference due to the Avengers movie 01:51:26 <shachaf> what reference 01:52:04 <hppavilion_> malamanteau 01:52:15 <shachaf> that's not a reference 01:52:19 <shachaf> it's a malamanteau 01:52:34 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 01:52:40 <hppavilion_> Words can be more than one category 01:53:11 <oren_> I usually writ things in C or C++ 01:53:32 <hppavilion_> It's a portmaneau, a malapropism, a malamanteau, a noun, and a bunch of other things 01:53:33 <boily> hppavilion_: careful about that word, "category." it has MEANINGS in this here chännel. 01:53:46 <boily> `? category 01:53:50 <hppavilion_> What does it mean? 01:53:50 <HackEgo> Categories are just a special case of bicategories. 01:54:14 <shachaf> do you prefer bicategories or cellcategories 01:54:16 <boily> hppavilion_: it's usually to the Rabbit Hole of Category Theory. caveat emptor and all that sort of thing. 01:54:28 <hppavilion_> Ah? 01:54:29 <boily> s/to/into/ 01:54:34 <hppavilion_> Now I have to refresh my page 01:54:53 <hppavilion_> Or do I? 01:54:57 <hppavilion_> Yes, I do 01:55:03 <hppavilion_> Autoscroll broke :/ 01:55:10 -!- hppavilion_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:55:29 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 01:55:30 <hppavilion1> Back 01:55:38 <hppavilion1> I BEAT THE CHANSERV MESSAGE 01:55:40 <hppavilion1> WOO 01:55:51 <shachaf> what chanserv message? 01:55:59 <hppavilion1> -ChanServ- [#esoteric] Welcome to the esoteric programming channel! Wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki> 01:56:08 <shachaf> chanserv doesn't send messages hth 01:56:15 <shachaf> i didn't see that 01:56:22 <hppavilion1> Well I get it every time 01:56:29 <shachaf> `wisdom 01:56:34 <hppavilion1> Probably has to do with the fact that I'm running on Freenode 01:56:36 <HackEgo> chess/Chess is a complex boardgame, where players exchange unclear royal steaks until they decide which of them has lost. The game is recorded through the Gringmuth Moving Pineapple Notation. 01:56:40 <hppavilion1> The webchat 01:56:50 <shachaf> ok i was lying sorry 01:56:54 <ais523> shachaf: chanserv does send it, but it often goes to the server tab 01:56:54 <hppavilion1> Good 01:56:57 <ais523> due to the order in which things happen 01:56:58 <hppavilion1> Oh 01:56:59 <hppavilion1> Weird 01:58:29 <hppavilion1> AFK 01:58:43 <shachaf> irssi has surprising behaviors for certain types of messages 01:58:53 <zzo38> PLUS(X,Y): X[^Y=]; Y. PRED(X): A,B=0; X[B[^A=]=1]; A. TIMES(X,Y): A=0; X[PLUS(A=,Y)]; A. MINUS(X,Y): Y[PRED(X=)]; X. EQUAL(X,Y): A=1; MINUS(X,Y)[A=0]; MINUS(Y,X)[A=0]; A. PUT(F(),X,Y,Z): A=F(Z); EQUAL(X,Z)[A=Y]; A. # That is a new kind of programming language I suppose 01:58:56 <shachaf> Ah, but you don't use irssi 01:59:29 <vanila> it looks like functional programming 01:59:47 <vanila> but very strange ... 02:00:39 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose, it is like functional programming but very strange 02:00:57 <ais523> zzo38: I'm currently working on a language which is like object oriented programming but very strange 02:01:02 <ais523> I call the paradigm "object cooriented programming" 02:01:21 <zzo38> ais523: O, OK, let's see when you have something, you can show us what it is, I guess 02:01:25 <coppro> ais523: oh? 02:01:30 <boily> ais523: eeeeh? 02:02:29 <ais523> it's not really finished, I can post what I have if you like 02:02:46 <ais523> I just started trying to write a program, I've been trying to implement an if statement 02:02:56 <coppro> please 02:02:57 <ais523> to see what problems I went into 02:02:58 -!- adu has joined. 02:03:41 <ais523> coppro: bearing in mind unfinished, everything is subject to change, etc.: http://sprunge.us/VjPi 02:04:29 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MONONOMIAL CHICKEN). 02:04:55 <ais523> note: the language is designed in particular so that you can static-analyse all the asserts; however I don't know if I succeeded at that 02:05:05 <ais523> and I'm not sure the way basic types work is quite what I want 02:08:23 <hppavilion1> So how does co-object oriented programming work? 02:09:25 <ais523> hppavilion1: you call methods by setting properties on objects, the methods notice and start running, then they take their arguments by searching all the objects in existence for properties saying that they're the arguments 02:09:51 <ais523> and scope is done in terms of property names, you tend to generate a lot of local/ephemeral properties that can exist on everything 02:09:51 <hppavilion1> Interesting 02:10:02 <hppavilion1> Sounds like a good one 02:10:52 <ais523> another of my favourite things about TCTOE is that it does recursion with a queue, rather than a stack 02:11:00 -!- GeekDude has joined. 02:11:08 <ais523> there was definitely a good reason for this originally, but I can't remember what it is 02:11:15 <hppavilion1> Whoa. 02:11:17 <ais523> I think something to do with the verification? 02:11:37 <hppavilion1> Recursion Queue. 02:11:51 <hppavilion1> How did I never think about that? 02:12:11 <ais523> because it makes no sense :-) 02:12:37 <ais523> then I had to make tail recursion not use it so that you could actually do things like nested if statements 02:12:57 <ais523> so I added a tail-recursion keyword, and called it goto because a) precedent, b) hilarity 02:13:17 <hppavilion1> Awesome 02:13:20 <ais523> goto [_old_this].then.run!; 02:13:32 <hppavilion1> For some reason webchat no longer scrolls down as new messges occur 02:13:38 <ais523> there we go, code that would be very difficult to translate into any other language in a general way 02:13:41 <ais523> hppavilion1: scroll to the bottom 02:13:49 <ais523> does that help? 02:14:03 <hppavilion1> Nope 02:14:21 <hppavilion1> I keep having to do that 02:14:44 <ais523> hmm, not sure I can help then 02:14:59 -!- variable has joined. 02:15:14 <hppavilion1> Do you want to help me write a language specification? 02:15:26 <hppavilion1> Hi variable 02:15:48 <hppavilion1> You new here? 02:16:14 <variable> hppavilion1: sometimes 02:16:23 <variable> hppavilion1: I change 02:16:32 <variable> hppavilion1: but I'm happy to help you write a spec 02:16:35 <hppavilion1> Uh. 02:16:36 <hppavilion1> OK 02:16:50 <hppavilion1> That works 02:16:54 <hppavilion1> I was talking to ais 02:17:01 <hppavilion1> But that works too 02:17:13 <hppavilion1> Do you know any haskell? 02:17:21 <variable> hppavilion1: yes 02:17:32 <hppavilion1> Awesome 02:17:40 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 02:17:41 <hppavilion1> That's pretty much necessary for this 02:17:46 <hppavilion1> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Table 02:17:47 <constant> hppavilion1: see, I told you I change 02:17:54 <hppavilion1> Heh 02:17:55 <hppavilion1> Constant 02:18:42 <hppavilion1> https://docs.google.com/document/d/15IhFJ9patZ-CINalHAyDMTxfdwyopGnkiZBtAljBVYY/edit?usp=sharing 02:18:51 <hppavilion1> Hopefully no one will destroy everything :P 02:20:06 <ais523> constant: well you don't change any more :-P 02:20:16 <constant> ais523: I'm a mutable constant 02:20:18 <ais523> (except in languages like Forte and INTERCAL) 02:20:29 <hppavilion1> BLASPHEMY 02:21:00 <ais523> do we have an INTERCAL interp in here? 02:21:15 <ais523> !intercal DO READ OUT #5 DO GIVE UP 02:21:22 <ais523> `! intercal DO READ OUT #5 DO GIVE UP 02:21:22 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/intercal: not found 02:21:27 <ais523> hmm 02:21:30 <ais523> `! c-intercal DO READ OUT #5 DO GIVE UP 02:21:31 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/!: 4: exec: ibin/c-intercal: not found 02:21:37 <ais523> `` ls ibin 02:21:38 <HackEgo> 1l \ 2l \ adjust \ asm \ axo \ bch \ befunge \ befunge98 \ bf \ bf16 \ bf32 \ bf8 \ bf_txtgen \ boolfuck \ c \ cintercal \ clcintercal \ cxx \ dimensifuck \ forth \ glass \ glypho \ haskell \ help \ java \ k \ kipple \ lambda \ lazyk \ linguine \ malbolge \ pbrain \ perl \ qbf \ rail \ rhotor \ sadol \ sceql \ sh \ trigger \ udage01 \ underload \ u 02:21:42 <ais523> oh, no hyphen 02:21:46 <ais523> `! cintercal DO READ OUT #5 DO GIVE UP 02:21:56 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:22:00 <HackEgo> ​ \ V 02:22:04 <hppavilion1> :( 02:22:54 <ais523> `! clcintercal DO .1 <- .2/#5 DO .1 <- #6 DO READ OUT #5 PLEASE GIVE UP 02:23:03 <HackEgo> V 02:23:07 <ais523> oh, duh 02:23:12 <ais523> `! clcintercal DO .1 <- .2/#5 DO .2 <- #6 DO READ OUT #5 PLEASE GIVE UP 02:23:19 <HackEgo> VI 02:23:21 <ais523> there we go 02:23:50 <hppavilion1> ``ls ibin/help 02:23:51 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ls: not found 02:24:07 <ais523> `! help 02:24:08 <HackEgo> The ! or interp command calls various language interpreters transfered from old EgoBot. Try `url ibin/ for a list. 02:24:11 <ais523> hppavilion1: is that what you wanted to do? 02:24:24 <hppavilion1> `` ls ibin/help 02:24:25 <HackEgo> ibin/help 02:24:36 <ais523> hppavilion1: it's just a file 02:24:38 <hppavilion1> I guess 02:24:41 <ais523> ls will simply report that it exists 02:24:49 <ais523> you run it with "`! help", which is what I just did 02:24:57 <hppavilion1> I was trying to identify whether it was a dir or a file 02:25:51 <ais523> why would it be a directory? 02:25:56 <ais523> (especially if I can execute it?) 02:26:00 <ais523> `` ls -l ibin/help 02:26:02 <HackEgo> ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 132 Apr 15 07:51 ibin/help 02:26:35 <hppavilion1> Well you hadn't executed it yet 02:26:45 <hppavilion1> You can kind of execute directories in python :P 02:26:54 <ais523> well it has the +x flag set, so 02:26:56 <hppavilion1> You can import packages, that is 02:26:58 <ais523> `` ibin/help 02:26:59 <HackEgo> The ! or interp command calls various language interpreters transfered from old EgoBot. Try `url ibin/ for a list. 02:27:05 <ais523> um 02:27:06 <ais523> `` ibin 02:27:07 <HackEgo> bash: ibin: command not found 02:27:11 <ais523> `` ./ibin 02:27:11 <HackEgo> bash: ./ibin: Is a directory 02:27:21 <ais523> that's the message I expected (not the usual "access denied") 02:27:24 <hppavilion1> constant 02:28:26 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 02:30:47 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:31:06 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 02:31:36 <hppavilion1> I guess I could've just /clear'd 02:31:46 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:31:47 <HackEgo> funpun/funpuns fceø fbz fryyrev naq pbfcynlf Arcrgn Yrvwba ba jrrxraqf. 02:32:20 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:32:21 <HackEgo> fact/facts are lies. They are not there. Go away! 02:32:26 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:32:27 <HackEgo> rholypoly/A rholypoly is an edible Greek species of Armadillidiidae. Goes well with garlic! 02:32:56 <hppavilion1> constant? 02:32:57 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 02:33:55 <ais523> if you `wisdom five times do you have to delete one? 02:33:56 <ais523> `quote 02:33:57 <HackEgo> 138) <Phantom_Hoover> It's only been 2 months since anyone last made a commit! <alise> WRONG 8 WEEKS 02:33:58 <ais523> `quote 02:33:58 <HackEgo> 422) <Sgeo> My memory passed <monqy> rest in peace sgeos memory 02:33:59 <ais523> `quote 02:34:00 <HackEgo> 613) <ais523> the parser would be even simpler if I didn't try to do type inference in it 02:34:01 <ais523> `quote 02:34:02 <HackEgo> 536) <Gregor> But whereas the Zune UI makes one think "I want to kill myself", the Windows CE UI makes one think "I want to kill myself, but first kill my parents as punishment for bringing into this world someone who would one day own a Windows CE device." 02:34:02 <ais523> `quote 02:34:03 <HackEgo> 29) <oklopol> anyway, torture would be fun to experience, true <oklopol> should put that on my todo list 02:34:20 <hppavilion1> `quote? 02:34:20 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quote?: not found 02:34:25 <hppavilion1> `quote 02:34:26 <HackEgo> 1200) <MDude> It seems there aren't any expert systems for answering questions on the nature of expert systems. 02:34:26 <hppavilion1> Cool 02:34:31 <ais523> do we seriously not do quotes any more? 02:34:42 <hppavilion1> `help quote 02:34:42 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 02:34:56 <hppavilion1> How does I add a quote/ 02:34:57 <shachaf> ais523: I tried that a few times. 02:35:01 <pikhq> `quote <ais523> do we seriously not do quotes any more? 02:35:02 <hppavilion1> How does I add a quote? 02:35:05 <HackEgo> No output. 02:35:06 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 02:35:10 <shachaf> But deleting wisdom seems kind of rude. 02:35:16 <shachaf> I guess deleting quotes is rude too. 02:35:17 <hppavilion1> That's JUST what I as going to do 02:35:19 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:35:19 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:35:20 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:35:20 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:35:20 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:35:24 <HackEgo> zimbabwe/olsner's desk points zimbabwards. it is highly dependent on tswett's michiganic orientation. 02:35:25 <HackEgo> certainly/We don't know what certainly is for sure, but at least it isn't a functor. 02:35:29 <HackEgo> real fast nora's hair salon 3: shear disaster download/Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is the most readable functional programming language out there. 02:35:29 <HackEgo> lachine/Unholy portal to China, closely guarded from Ëvil by Roujo. 02:35:29 <HackEgo> brain/Brains are just receptacles for bricks. 02:35:35 <ais523> pikhq: yu meant `addquote 02:35:37 <ais523> *you 02:35:52 <pikhq> `addquote <ais523> do we seriously not do quotes any more? 02:35:58 <HackEgo> 1245) <ais523> do we seriously not do quotes any more? 02:35:58 <pikhq> That I believe is my first added quote. 02:36:57 <hppavilion1> `addquote <pikhq> `addquote <ais523> do we seriously not do quotes any more? 02:36:59 <hppavilion1> There 02:36:59 <HackEgo> 1246) <pikhq> `addquote <ais523> do we seriously not do quotes any more? 02:37:01 <hppavilion1> I'm so meta 02:37:22 <hppavilion1> Even This Acronym 02:37:35 <ais523> hppavilion1: there's not much point in `addquoting an `addquote unless the person who added it was somehow significant, or there's interesting context 02:37:41 <ais523> because you can tell it was added from the fact that it's there 02:37:45 <ais523> `delquote 1246 02:37:51 <hppavilion1> However 02:37:54 <HackEgo> ​*poof* <pikhq> `addquote <ais523> do we seriously not do quotes any more? 02:38:11 <hppavilion1> It's weird for someone to addquote an addquote 02:38:42 <ais523> not really, it's been tried way too many times 02:38:45 <ais523> `quote `addquote 02:38:48 <hppavilion1> Oh 02:38:49 <ais523> not sure if any still survive 02:38:49 <HackEgo> 318) <elliott_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django <olsner> elliott_: another quote? you're not helping :/ \ 774) <zzo38> Do you think " `addquote [with no context] < zzo38> Do you think psychology is worse, or not?" is worse, or not? \ 02:38:50 <hppavilion1> :( 02:39:01 <shachaf> I think that's actually a good quote. 02:39:20 <shachaf> `addquote <ais523> hppavilion1: there's not much point in `addquoting an `addquote unless the person who added it was somehow significant, or there's interesting context <ais523> because you can tell it was added from the fact that it's there 02:39:22 <HackEgo> 1246) <ais523> hppavilion1: there's not much point in `addquoting an `addquote unless the person who added it was somehow significant, or there's interesting context <ais523> because you can tell it was added from the fact that it's there 02:39:39 <hppavilion1> We have to leave that one 02:39:50 <hppavilion1> `quote 02:39:51 <HackEgo> 612) <elliott> ais523: I pronounce "xor" by punching myself in the face and then "or" 02:40:25 <hppavilion1> That's awesoem 02:40:28 <hppavilion1> *awesome 02:42:01 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:42:01 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:42:02 <HackEgo> metasepia/metasepia knows the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks. 02:42:02 <HackEgo> canada/Canada is Big Scotland. Like, you know, very big. 02:42:03 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:42:03 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:42:03 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:42:07 <HackEgo> drone/drones are tools used to perform certain criminal actions that were not possible in ancient times. 02:42:08 <HackEgo> cow/A cow is an animal best served at minus zero degrees. 02:42:08 <HackEgo> supermarioperator/supermarioperator is one of many confusing operators as defined in Control.Plumbers.Monad. Your sanity is in another castle. 02:42:21 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/cow 02:42:27 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott boily 02:43:34 <shachaf> When did you say your thesis would be published? 02:43:59 <ais523> shachaf: pedantic answer is "I didn't", but I have to submit the corrections early in July 02:44:06 <ais523> I don't know how long it'll take to be published after the corrections are submitted 02:44:28 <shachaf> Instead of "but" you could say "and". 02:44:37 <ais523> there isn't any actual reason for a long delay at that point, so it'll just be typical bureaucratic delay plus a few days 02:44:40 <shachaf> That way you'd seem slightly more pedantic and still communicate useful information. 02:44:47 <ais523> shachaf: haha, that would be even more pedantic, yes 02:59:43 -!- vanila has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:00:25 -!- One_ has joined. 03:00:48 -!- One_ has changed nick to Guest78511. 03:01:19 -!- Guest78511 has quit (Client Quit). 03:01:37 -!- neo__ has joined. 03:02:54 -!- neo__ has quit (Client Quit). 03:03:13 -!- ZombieCheney has joined. 03:03:38 <hppavilion1> Heh 03:03:41 <hppavilion1> Awesome username 03:05:25 <hppavilion1> constant 03:05:28 <hppavilion1> Here constant 03:05:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:07:54 -!- hilquias has joined. 03:09:21 <constant> hppavilion1: sorry: am in airport and things happened 03:11:01 <tswett> @tell boily implement Al Dente twbh hth 03:11:01 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 03:12:18 <hppavilion1> Oh 03:12:21 <tswett> `le/rn wfraatw/A WFRAATW is a well-founded recursive acronym akin to "WFRAATW". 03:12:21 <hppavilion1> OK 03:12:27 <HackEgo> Learned «wfraatw» 03:12:32 <tswett> `? WFRAATW 03:12:33 <HackEgo> A WFRAATW is a well-founded recursive acronym akin to "WFRAATW". 03:12:51 <tswett> Did you know? The acronym "WFRAATW" is a WFRAATW. 03:13:08 <hppavilion1> Hah! 03:13:24 <ZombieCheney> Ezra Wacky Shark is an anagram of my meat world name 03:13:25 <tswett> Due to the fact that it's a well-founded recursive acronym, along with the identity kinship. 03:13:45 <ZombieCheney> If you are not a bot, please do not respond. 03:14:03 <hppavilion1> OK 03:14:19 <tswett> Oh crap, now I need to find out what some good anagrams of my name are. 03:14:29 <ZombieCheney> hppavilion1 is a bot. 03:14:33 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:14:36 <hppavilion1> I am 03:14:41 <ZombieCheney> tswett is a bot 03:14:48 <tswett> I didn't respond. 03:14:57 <ZombieCheney> You did right there. 03:14:58 <tswett> Wet Entrants. 03:15:18 <tswett> I assumed you meant "please do not respond to the message 'If you are not a bot, please do not respond.'". 03:15:25 <ZombieCheney> To prove you are not a bot, write a haiku. 03:15:39 <tswett> This is a haiku / but it is probably not / a very good one. 03:15:49 <ZombieCheney> Captchas have been implemented in this IRC 03:16:13 <ZombieCheney> 5/5/5 not 5/7/5 03:16:17 <ZombieCheney> no match 03:16:39 <tswett> I don't understand. 03:17:00 <ZombieCheney> Just one last check, but I don't think you're a bot. 03:17:29 <ZombieCheney> I've been battling replicants for months, I thought I was losing my mind 03:17:45 <shachaf> tromp_: Where's your Go rules page? 03:17:54 <ais523> ZombieCheney: there are quite a few non-bots here, also quite a few bots 03:17:55 <ZombieCheney> What's that? 03:18:02 <tswett> Hey, you should see *my* Go rules page. 03:18:11 <tswett> ZombieCheney: are you asking me? 03:18:34 <ZombieCheney> Yes, what is a Go rules page? 03:18:37 <ZombieCheney> http://senseis.xmp.net/?RulesOfGo 03:18:39 <ZombieCheney> ??? 03:19:05 <tswett> Yeah, like that. 03:19:10 <ZombieCheney> and why did your name turn red? 03:19:11 <hppavilion1> ZombieCheney can order undead drone strikes on you 03:19:14 <hppavilion1> Don't question him 03:19:36 <tswett> Here's my Go rules page: http://senseis.xmp.net/?BridgeGo 03:19:37 <ZombieCheney> I was here earlier, used an alternate pseudonym. 03:19:50 <tswett> I will now explain why my name turned red. 03:20:00 <ZombieCheney> Okay, GO! 03:20:15 <tswett> of that was not among the really good, why? :) but it was not all the time that we weren't of the biggest 03:20:33 <ZombieCheney> hppavilion1 turned red too. 03:20:43 <ZombieCheney> My rules are here: https://rootsuprevolution.wordpress.com/ 03:20:46 <tswett> I disagree the very time it; but among the already amaze me, it would Haskell (this). 03:20:46 <ZombieCheney> among others 03:21:13 <ZombieCheney> https://www.haskell.org/ 03:21:18 <hppavilion1> Your name just turned red for me 03:21:20 <hppavilion1> No one tell him 03:21:31 <ZombieCheney> Does that indicate something important? 03:21:36 <ZombieCheney> Red is usually important. 03:21:38 <hppavilion1> I want him to figure out on his own 03:21:55 <hppavilion1> I want ZombieCheney to figure out on his own 03:21:57 <ZombieCheney> Verification that I'm not a bot. 03:22:08 <ZombieCheney> ??? 03:22:20 <hppavilion1> Figured it out yet? 03:22:25 <ZombieCheney> Yes, 03:22:45 <ZombieCheney> but no. 03:22:49 <hppavilion1> Really? What's the pattern? 03:22:56 <ZombieCheney> I have plenty of suppositions though, 03:23:08 <hppavilion1> Give me your best guess 03:23:42 <ZombieCheney> Well, there was a page break just there. 03:23:44 <hppavilion1> When does it happen, ZombieCheney? 03:23:49 <ZombieCheney> I think that means something. 03:23:59 <hppavilion1> I don't understand what the page break means either 03:24:08 <hppavilion1> But I don't think it has anything to do with the red 03:24:19 <ZombieCheney> Neither do I, I just started to learn coding, I'm flying blind here, 03:24:25 <hppavilion1> It's not a coding thing 03:24:31 <hppavilion1> ZombieCheney 03:24:33 <tswett> `run echo Zombie''Cheney 03:24:34 <HackEgo> ZombieCheney 03:24:50 <ZombieCheney> There has to be code involved in turning stuff red, at some point in the process. 03:24:54 <hppavilion1> Yes 03:25:08 <hppavilion1> But the thing it's designed to do isn't code related 03:25:19 <ZombieCheney> The programming language i know best is "english". 03:25:21 <hppavilion1> Keep in mind that IRC isn't just for programmers 03:25:22 <hppavilion1> :P 03:25:24 <ZombieCheney> I'm a good mind hacker. 03:25:26 -!- lemurian has joined. 03:25:28 <tswett> `run echo 'Q'u'o't'a't'i'o'n' 'm'a'r'k's' 'a'r'e' 'f'u'n' 03:25:28 <HackEgo> Quotation marks are fun 03:25:42 <hppavilion1> ZombieCheney 03:25:46 <ZombieCheney> Yes? 03:25:53 <hppavilion1> Did my name just turn red? 03:26:04 <oren_> IRC isn't just for programmers? 03:26:04 <hppavilion1> hppavilion1 03:26:08 <ZombieCheney> Why yeeeesssss, it did in fact. 03:26:18 <oren_> oren 03:26:18 <hppavilion1> What did I say in that message? 03:27:00 <hppavilion1> I did not say oren 03:27:12 <hppavilion1> That was just a coincidence 03:27:24 <hppavilion1> ZombieCheney 03:27:28 <ZombieCheney> you said ZombieCheney 03:27:32 <hppavilion1> Yes 03:27:36 <ZombieCheney> hppavilion1 03:27:40 <hppavilion1> And what is "ZomieCheney" 03:27:45 <hppavilion1> Just turned red for me 03:27:56 <ZombieCheney> I don't know, I am ZombieCheney. 03:27:59 <hppavilion1> Yes 03:28:02 <ZombieCheney> ZomieCheney is not me. 03:28:11 <ZombieCheney> hppavilion1 03:28:14 <hppavilion1> So would it be significant for someone to say your name 03:28:16 <hppavilion1> Red agian 03:28:17 <hppavilion1> *again 03:28:29 <shachaf> tromp_: (I found them.) 03:28:52 <ZombieCheney> Ah yes, I see it now. Whenever someone says your name, it highlights it in red so that it's easy for you to pick out, 03:28:57 <hppavilion1> Yep 03:29:08 <hppavilion1> And the title of the tab alerts you too if you're tabbed out 03:29:10 <hppavilion1> Which is useful 03:29:38 <oren_> tab? 03:29:57 <hppavilion1> ctrl+\t 03:30:08 <ZombieCheney> 6.46 oren and orin oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He’ll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. orin is oren’s evil twin, stalking him from the other side of the international date line. • 03:30:34 <ZombieCheney> oren seems like a bot. 03:30:36 <hppavilion1> Here's sanothr thing 03:30:41 <hppavilion1> `wisdom 03:30:42 <HackEgo> c#/C Pound is Java's good twin. 03:30:50 <hppavilion1> HackEgo is a bot 03:31:12 <ZombieCheney> Is every entry in the Collatz files a bot? 03:31:18 <hppavilion1> IDK 03:31:42 <hppavilion1> `wisdom 03:31:43 <HackEgo> c/C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault 03:31:51 <hppavilion1> `wisdom 03:31:52 <HackEgo> group/groups are just loops with the property of associativity 03:31:53 <oren_> ZombieCheney: I'm not a bot, just ahuman who is only partially paying attention to IRC 03:32:22 <ZombieCheney> Prove it. Tell me something funny, 03:32:33 <hppavilion1> ,? 03:32:54 <hppavilion1> Did you mean .? 03:33:12 <ZombieCheney> , 03:33:21 <ZombieCheney> ;-p 03:33:28 <hppavilion1> You bastard 03:33:34 <ZombieCheney> ha ha! 03:33:51 <hppavilion1> `learn ZombieCheney is a bastard who ends sentences with commas such that we think there's more coming 03:33:53 <HackEgo> Learned 'zombiecheney': ZombieCheney is a bastard who ends sentences with commas such that we think there's more coming 03:33:55 <oren_> ZombieCheney: I bought some batteries, but they weren't included 03:34:05 <hppavilion1> :P 03:34:11 <hppavilion1> `? ZombieCheney 03:34:14 <HackEgo> ZombieCheney is a bastard who ends sentences with commas such that we think there's more coming 03:34:23 <hppavilion1> IT IS ETERNAL 03:34:54 <ZombieCheney> All of you in the red, you just failed my Turing test. 'learn everyone but ZombieCheney is a bot 03:35:09 <hppavilion1> A) It has to be a gravestone 03:35:17 <ZombieCheney> `learn I am not a bot 03:35:18 <hppavilion1> B) It must come at the beginning of a line 03:35:19 <HackEgo> Learned 'i': I am not a bot 03:35:31 <hppavilion1> There might've already been something there 03:35:37 <hppavilion1> Always check before teaching 03:35:45 <oren_> `culprits i 03:35:47 <HackEgo> No output. 03:35:51 <oren_> `culprits wisdom/i 03:35:53 <HackEgo> ZombieCheney oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 shachaf 03:35:57 <ZombieCheney> `learn ZombieCheney is neo 03:36:00 <HackEgo> Learned 'zombiecheney': ZombieCheney is neo 03:36:12 <hppavilion1> Dammit 03:36:12 <ZombieCheney> Who is ZombieCheney? 03:36:21 <oren_> `revert wisdom/i 03:36:22 <HackEgo> abort: unknown revision 'wisdom/i'! 03:36:24 <hppavilion1> He is the One 03:36:33 <hppavilion1> `culprits wisdom/ZombieCheney 03:36:34 <ZombieCheney> Damn right, 03:36:46 <ZombieCheney> Say My Name: 03:36:46 <HackEgo> No output. 03:36:56 <oren_> `culprits wisdom/zombiecheney 03:36:57 <ZombieCheney> Say it! 03:36:58 <HackEgo> ZombieCheney hppavilion1 03:37:04 <ZombieCheney> ha ha! 03:37:11 <hppavilion1> Dick Cheney 03:37:16 <oren_> `? lol 03:37:17 <HackEgo> lol stands for laughing out legends 03:37:22 <ZombieCheney> That's my evil twin. 03:37:54 <ZombieCheney> This is going to go down in history, my robotic Friends. 03:38:02 <hppavilion1> `ls 03:38:06 <oren_> `? bot 03:38:07 <HackEgo> bot? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:38:11 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ argv.py \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ blah \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ people.py \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elli 03:38:14 <hppavilion1> `python script.py 03:38:15 <HackEgo> These are the users who bothered to edit our file: \ hppavilion1, 03:38:32 <hppavilion1> I'm the only one! 03:38:42 <oren_> `cat emoticons/kyaa 03:38:42 <HackEgo> ​(≧∇≦)/ 03:39:03 <ZombieCheney> \ ZombieCheney, aka neo, aka zackjk 03:39:21 <oren_> `cat emoticons/gaaan 03:39:23 <HackEgo> ​ｶﾞ~(ﾟﾛﾟ;)~ﾝ 03:39:41 <ZombieCheney> These are the users who bothered to edit our file: \ ZombieCheney, aka neo, aka zackjk 03:40:18 <hppavilion1> `cat script.py 03:40:19 <HackEgo> users = ['hppavilion1'] \ print 'These are the users who bothered to edit our file:' \ for x in users: \ print(x+', ') 03:40:23 <tswett> `run echo emoticons/*; cat emoticons/* 03:40:25 <HackEgo> emoticons/drowning emoticons/flipbird emoticons/gaaan emoticons/gaan emoticons/kyaa emoticons/shrug emoticons/useless \ lol \ 凸 \ ｶﾞ~(ﾟﾛﾟ;)~ﾝ \ (°Д°) \ (≧∇≦)/ \ ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ オラオラオラ（三･o･）三☆三（｀ε´三）無駄無駄無駄無駄 03:41:07 <hppavilion1> `run (echo "users = ['hppavilion1', 'Not ZombieCheney'] \ print 'These are the users who bothered to edit our file:' \ for x in users: \ print(x+', ')") > script.py 03:41:09 <HackEgo> No output. 03:41:15 <ZombieCheney> `learn phi=e^i*t 03:41:16 <hppavilion1> `python script.py 03:41:18 <HackEgo> ​ File "script.py", line 1 \ users = ['hppavilion1', 'Not ZombieCheney'] \ print 'These are the users who bothered to edit our file:' \ for x in users: \ print(x+', ') \ ^ \ SyntaxError: unexpec 03:41:20 <HackEgo> Learned 'phi=e^i*t': phi=e^i*t 03:41:46 <ZombieCheney> `learn phi=e^i*t is the last equation 03:41:48 <HackEgo> Learned 'phi=e^i*t': phi=e^i*t is the last equation 03:41:55 <tswett> What's so last about it? 03:41:57 <hppavilion1> `run (echo "users = ['hppavilion1', 'Not ZombieCheney']"; echo "print 'These are the users who bothered to edit our file:'"; echo "for x in users:"; echo " print(x+', ')") > script.py 03:41:59 <HackEgo> No output. 03:42:05 <hppavilion1> `python script.py 03:42:06 <HackEgo> These are the users who bothered to edit our file: \ hppavilion1, \ Not ZombieCheney, 03:42:07 <ZombieCheney> Let there be light. 03:42:10 <tswett> Hey... I wonder if better is to best as latter is to last. 03:42:50 <ZombieCheney> These are the users who bothered to edit our file:\ zackjk 03:43:06 <oren_> it is 03:43:11 <ZombieCheney> These are the users who bothered to edit our file: \ all 03:43:27 <hppavilion1> `run (echo "users = ['hppavilion1', 'Not ZombieCheney']"; echo "print 'These are the users who bothered to edit our file (If you did it, you are hardcore):'"; echo "for x in users:"; echo " print(x+', ')") > script.py 03:43:29 <HackEgo> No output. 03:43:58 <ZombieCheney> `learn Fuck yeah, ZombieCheney is hardcore! 03:44:00 <HackEgo> Learned 'fuck': Fuck yeah, ZombieCheney is hardcore! 03:44:24 <oren_> `revert 03:44:33 <tswett> Looks like the answer is pretty much. 03:44:34 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 03:44:40 <oren_> `? fuck 03:44:41 <HackEgo> fuck? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:45:21 <tswett> Bot, bettra, betst. Læt, lætra, lætest. 03:45:32 <hppavilion1> `learn fuck When a mommy and a daddy love each other _very_ much... 03:45:33 <HackEgo> Learned 'fuck': fuck When a mommy and a daddy love each other _very_ much... 03:45:35 <ZombieCheney> `learn <ZombieCheney> wipes the floor with <oren_> 03:45:39 <HackEgo> Learned '<zombiecheney>': <ZombieCheney> wipes the floor with <oren_> 03:45:40 -!- G33kDude has joined. 03:45:42 -!- G33kDude has quit (Excess Flood). 03:45:59 -!- G33kDude has joined. 03:46:01 -!- G33kDude has quit (Excess Flood). 03:46:08 <hppavilion1> :/ 03:46:12 <oren_> `cat emoticons/flipbird 03:46:12 <HackEgo> cat: emoticons/flipbird : No such file or directory 03:46:14 -!- G33kDude has joined. 03:46:15 -!- G33kDude has quit (Excess Flood). 03:46:21 <tswett> Hmmm, maybe the wisdom for "fuck" should be a Quanc Phuc Dong quote. 03:46:22 <zzo38> This is a idea of Magic: the Gathering card: Return up to five target lands to their owner's hand, and then each player who returned any card to his hand in this way must draw that many cards. ;; Cannot be used while there is a creature, enchantment, artifact, or planeswalker on the stack. 03:46:26 <tswett> Lemme come up with some examples. 03:46:29 -!- G33kDude has joined. 03:46:29 -!- G33kDude has quit (Changing host). 03:46:29 -!- G33kDude has joined. 03:46:31 -!- G33kDude has quit (Excess Flood). 03:46:33 <oren_> `ls emoticons/ 03:46:33 <HackEgo> drowning \ flipbird \ gaaan \ gaan \ kyaa \ shrug \ useless 03:46:48 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:46:48 <ais523> zzo38: why not make it a sorcery, rather than that weird stack restriction? 03:46:51 <oren_> `cat emoticons/flipbird 03:46:52 <HackEgo> ​凸 03:46:55 <tswett> "Fuck you and wash the dishes. Wash the dishes and fuck you." 03:47:12 <zzo38> ais523: Because, you are still allowed to respond to sorceries, instants, and triggered and activated abilities. 03:47:14 <ZombieCheney> `learn the wisdom for fuck is that we need not indulge in illusions. 03:47:18 <HackEgo> Learned 'wisdom': the wisdom for fuck is that we need not indulge in illusions. 03:47:25 <oren_> `revert 03:47:26 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 03:47:30 <tswett> "Fuck all irregular verbs. Fuck seven irregular verbs." 03:47:36 <oren_> `? wisdom 03:47:37 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 03:47:43 * hppavilion1 facepalms 03:47:51 <hppavilion1> Always check if therer was something better first 03:48:01 <ZombieCheney> `learn ø =e^i*tau 03:48:05 <HackEgo> Learned 'ø': ø =e^i*tau 03:48:12 <oren_> `revery 03:48:13 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: revery: not found 03:48:16 <oren_> `revert 03:48:18 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 03:48:32 <ZombieCheney> `learn revery defeat 03:48:34 <HackEgo> Learned 'revery': revery defeat 03:48:35 <oren_> `cat emoticons/useless 03:48:36 <hppavilion1> `? ø 03:48:36 <HackEgo> ​オラオラオラ（三･o･）三☆三（｀ε´三）無駄無駄無駄無駄 03:48:37 <HackEgo> ​ø is not going anywhere. 03:48:43 <ais523> zzo38: yes, but I'm not sure that allowing that is worth how much more complex it makes the card 03:49:08 <ZombieCheney> `learn that is worth the complexity 03:49:10 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:49:12 <ais523> actually today Wizards previewed a card (i.e. they'll be printing it soon) which has an "If it's your turn" clause but it's a sorcery 03:49:13 <HackEgo> Learned 'that': that is worth the complexity 03:49:45 <hppavilion1> `revert 03:49:46 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 03:49:48 <hppavilion1> `? that 03:49:49 <HackEgo> that? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:49:55 <hppavilion1> Oh 03:50:02 <zzo38> O, so, that "if" clause fail if something allowing to cast sorcery on opponent's turn is used, I suppose (there are many ways, including madness) 03:50:04 <hppavilion1> `? `? 03:50:07 <HackEgo> ​`? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:50:09 <ZombieCheney> `learn 42. That’s it. That’s The Answer. But you never really understood what The Ultimate Question was, did you? So The Answer doesn’t make sense without it. If you knew what the The Ultimate Question was, you might understand why The Answer is 42, and if that makes sense to you, you are one enlightened dude, dude. Do you wanna know The Ultimate Question? Are you ready? Ok, DON’T PANIC: What do you get if you 03:50:15 <HackEgo> Learned '42.': 42. That’s it. That’s The Answer. But you never really understood what The Ultimate Question was, did you? So The Answer doesn’t make sense without it. If you knew what the The Ultimate Question was, you might understand why The Answer is 42, and if that makes sense to you, you are one enlightened dude, dude. Do you wanna 03:50:22 <hppavilion1> Look at how subtle that is 03:50:33 <ais523> zzo38: right, most people think it's because the new card would otherwise form a broken combo with veldaken orrery 03:50:51 * hppavilion1 bangs his head against the desk 03:51:05 <hppavilion1> NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD 03:51:13 <ZombieCheney> `learn send your money to 13uRC2sXE1wMq7QT1bjxmPJZbRFH4Cqmbu 03:51:15 <HackEgo> Learned 'send': send your money to 13uRC2sXE1wMq7QT1bjxmPJZbRFH4Cqmbu 03:51:27 <ZombieCheney> What is 'send'? 03:51:37 <hppavilion1> ZombieCheney: Always always ALWAYS check if there's something before you teach wisdom something 03:51:41 <tswett> Let's find out what 'send' is. 03:51:42 <tswett> `? send 03:51:43 <HackEgo> send your money to 13uRC2sXE1wMq7QT1bjxmPJZbRFH4Cqmbu 03:51:47 <tswett> There's your answer. 03:51:47 <hppavilion1> `revert 03:51:48 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 03:51:49 <hppavilion1> `revert 03:51:50 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 03:51:58 <zzo38> `? send 03:51:59 <HackEgo> send? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:52:01 <ZombieCheney> what is wisdom? 03:52:04 <tswett> `? fuck 03:52:07 <hppavilion1> That's `? 03:52:10 <HackEgo> Fuck yeah, ZombieCheney is hardcore! 03:52:10 <ais523> at some point oerjan is going to have to come in at some point and fix this 03:52:13 <hppavilion1> Kind of 03:52:30 <hppavilion1> I keep reverting 03:52:40 <ais523> ZombieCheney: it's a learndb; most channels which have one use their learndb to readily store facts about certain topics for future reference 03:52:42 <hppavilion1> `? 422 03:52:43 <HackEgo> 422? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:52:46 <ais523> `? mycology 03:52:47 <HackEgo> mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/ 03:52:49 <hppavilion1> `? 42 03:52:50 <HackEgo> 42? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:52:51 <zzo38> ais523: Do you know what else is effect of new card? 03:52:54 <ais523> like that, that's one of the serious ones 03:52:57 <tswett> `cat wisdom/fuck 03:52:58 <HackEgo> Fuck yeah, ZombieCheney is hardcore! 03:53:01 <tswett> `run echo 'the fuck? ¯\(°​_o)/¯' > wisdom/fuck 03:53:03 <HackEgo> No output. 03:53:05 <hppavilion1> `? 42. 03:53:06 <HackEgo> 42. That’s it. That’s The Answer. But you never really understood what The Ultimate Question was, did you? So The Answer doesn’t make sense without it. If you knew what the The Ultimate Question was, you might understand why The Answer is 42, and if that makes sense to you, you are one enlightened dude, dude. Do you wanna know The Ultima 03:53:09 <ais523> mostly we use it as a repository for bad jokes though 03:53:22 <ais523> zzo38: I know a few new cards, it's spoiler season so Wizards are releasing a few every day 03:53:28 <ZombieCheney> `learn 42 https://github.com/zackjk/The-Identity/blob/master/LICENSE 03:53:30 <HackEgo> Learned '42': 42 https://github.com/zackjk/The-Identity/blob/master/LICENSE 03:53:37 <tswett> ais523: so I'm reminded of a certain bit of wording on a card in a certain MTG-like game. 03:53:38 <ZombieCheney> 42? 03:53:48 <ais523> tswett: I take it that the certain MTG-like game is not actually MTG? 03:53:55 <tswett> Correct. 03:53:56 <tswett> It was like this: "Discard a card. If you do, draw two cards." 03:54:13 <ais523> that's very MTG 03:54:14 <tswett> At first, it sounds weird. Why would you put an "if you do" on something that's mandatory? 03:55:02 <ais523> because if you don't, you don't get the two cards 03:55:30 <ais523> (the M:tG equivalent card exists, although I forget what it's called; it's worded "As an additional cost to cast CARDNAME, discard a card. Draw two cards.") 03:55:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mov]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43285&oldid=43265 * Ehird * (-37) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Keymaker|Keymaker]] ([[User talk:Keymaker|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Cluid Zhasulelm|Cluid Zhasulelm]] 03:55:35 <ais523> (and costs 1R I think) 03:55:39 <pikhq> /win 20 03:55:43 <pikhq> /fail 20 03:55:49 <oren_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTBlKRzNf74 03:55:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mov]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43287&oldid=43285 * Ehird * (+37) misclick -- sorry 03:55:59 <tswett> ais523: technically that answers the question. 03:56:11 <pikhq> Oh huh, he does liv. 03:56:13 <pikhq> *live 03:56:28 <pikhq> I guess he just rage-quit IRC or something. 03:56:47 <tswett> If there were an MTG sorcery that just said "Discard a card, then draw two cards", you'd be able to abuse it by casting it while not having any cards in hand. 03:57:16 <hppavilion1> `wisdom 03:57:18 <HackEgo> quoteformat/qdbformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two 03:57:19 <tswett> Of course, we all know that the best wording is the following: 03:57:46 <tswett> "Try: { Discard a card. Draw two cards. } Catch (unable to discard a card): { }" 03:57:51 <ZombieCheney> `learn Discard a card, then draw two cards 03:57:53 <HackEgo> Learned 'discard': Discard a card, then draw two cards 03:58:01 <shachaf> `revert 03:58:02 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 03:58:08 * hppavilion1 jumps out a window 03:58:11 <ZombieCheney> `revert 03:58:12 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 03:58:16 <hppavilion1> Are you even listening to me, ZombieCheney? 03:58:17 <tswett> `? fuck 03:58:18 <HackEgo> the fuck? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:58:23 <zzo38> ZombieCheney: You aren't supposed to make `learn command like that! 03:58:26 <ZombieCheney> Yeppers 03:58:36 <zzo38> Please learn the proper way or not at all. 03:58:50 <hppavilion1> zzo38: Agreed 03:59:02 <ZombieCheney> `learn <zzo38> is not The One 03:59:05 <HackEgo> Learned '<zzo38>': <zzo38> is not The One 03:59:17 <hppavilion1> That's better 03:59:19 <hppavilion1> But also 03:59:21 <shachaf> Please stop messing up the wisdom database. 03:59:28 <ZombieCheney> * throws zzo38 out window 03:59:34 <hppavilion1> Check if there's already something in that spot before teaching it 03:59:43 <ZombieCheney> `learn wisdom there is no wisdom 03:59:45 <HackEgo> Learned 'wisdom': wisdom there is no wisdom 03:59:53 <hppavilion1> Just use the /me command 03:59:58 * ZombieCheney 04:00:10 * ZombieCheney is the one 04:00:23 * hppavilion1 flys down and saves zzo38 with superpoweryness 04:00:23 * oren_ mapoles ZombieCheney with the bugswtter ーー蟲蟲 04:00:25 <tswett> Whelp, this can all be reverted later if need be. If we remember. 04:00:33 * ZombieCheney is <hppavilion1> 04:00:39 <hppavilion1> Yeah 04:00:46 <tswett> `run echo 'ーー蟲蟲' > emoticons/swatter 04:00:48 <HackEgo> No output. 04:00:52 <ZombieCheney> Good luck remembering, I can always come back. 04:00:56 <hppavilion1> That means I am the one 04:01:01 <oren_> you do realize the <> arent part of the persons name? 04:01:17 <ZombieCheney> By transference, sure, 04:01:30 <hppavilion1> oren_: I don't think he does 04:01:33 <ZombieCheney> You do realize I don't really care? 04:01:44 <zzo38> Clearly I am not "The One", but actually "Aaron Black". But please stop mixing up the files like that OK???????? 04:01:49 <hppavilion1> `ban ZombieCheney 04:01:50 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ban: not found 04:02:02 <fowl> whats up #esoteric whats happening 04:02:03 <ZombieCheney> `ban hppavilion1 04:02:03 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ban: not found 04:02:05 * hppavilion1 has muted you 04:02:15 <hppavilion1> God 04:02:18 <hppavilion1> I just muted him 04:02:19 <ZombieCheney> ha ha! another replicant vanquished. 04:02:33 <hppavilion1> Good thing THAT'S out of the way 04:02:44 <hppavilion1> Wait, can muted people still read your messages?? 04:02:47 <ZombieCheney> `learn ZombieCheney is God 04:02:50 <HackEgo> Learned 'zombiecheney': ZombieCheney is God 04:02:54 <oren_> I think so 04:02:58 <ais523> hppavilion1: if you mean /ignore, that's client-side 04:03:02 <ZombieCheney> Who is God? 04:03:03 <zzo38> hppavilion1: If you send them to the channel, then yes, of course 04:03:08 <ais523> Freenode is still sending you the ignored messages, your client just doesn't print them 04:03:15 <hppavilion1> HISSSSSSSSSSSS 04:03:21 <hppavilion1> I WAS TRYING TO TROLL HIM 04:03:34 <oren_> `learn ZombieCheney lives under a bridge. 04:03:35 <HackEgo> Learned 'zombiecheney': ZombieCheney lives under a bridge. 04:03:36 -!- ZombieCheney has left. 04:03:38 <ais523> hppavilion1: I thought trolling wasn't allowed on Freenode 04:03:39 <zzo38> Other form of "Discard a card. If you do, draw two cards." can have something like my idea [ :discard :any; :success [ :draw 2 ] ] 04:03:44 <hppavilion1> I'm going to go register the ZombieCheney username on Esolangs 04:03:55 <ais523> it's not allowed on Esolang either 04:04:06 -!- ZomieCheney has joined. 04:04:14 <ZomieCheney> Who is God? 04:04:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ZombieCheney * New user account 04:04:34 <ais523> hppavilion1: why would you register someone else's username? 04:04:40 <ZomieCheney> Who is neo? 04:04:42 <ais523> not that I can't fix it but it's a bunch of work I don't want to have to do 04:04:45 <zzo38> Don't register someone else username 04:04:59 <hppavilion1> Done 04:05:03 <zzo38> God is.....there is no answer to this question. 04:05:16 * fowl is god, AMA 04:05:18 <ZomieCheney> Who is zzo38? 04:05:22 <hppavilion1> Oops 04:05:23 <zzo38> I am zzo38 04:05:24 <hppavilion1> Too late 04:05:33 <hppavilion1> I'll just give him the password after I change it 04:05:33 <ZomieCheney> What is the ban command? 04:05:35 <hppavilion1> If he wants it 04:05:53 <ais523> ZomieCheney: /ban, but it won't work unless you have some sort of status within the channel 04:06:01 <zzo38> ZomieCheney: The MODE command is used to ban people from a channel, but you can't unless you are an operator 04:06:03 <ais523> hppavilion1: I can rename the account out of the way 04:06:07 <ZomieCheney> K, good to know. 04:06:13 <fowl> `lel 04:06:14 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: lel: not found 04:06:16 <ais523> zzo38: OK, technically it's MODE, but almost all clients have /ban as a shortcut for it 04:06:26 <ais523> (except yours) 04:06:32 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 04:06:32 <oren_> `? lol 04:06:33 <HackEgo> lol stands for laughing out legends 04:06:56 <oren_> ``````````````` 04:06:56 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ``````````````: not found 04:07:11 <ZomieCheney> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ``````````````: not found 04:07:16 <hppavilion1> To be fair 04:07:25 <hppavilion1> ZombieCheney has been a bit of a dick from my POV 04:07:26 <ZomieCheney> I try to be. 04:07:38 <hppavilion1> Good man 04:07:41 <ZomieCheney> He is, I hate that Meffer. 04:07:49 <oren_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0 04:07:51 <fowl> hppavilion1, its obvious you are new to being trolled 04:08:04 <ZomieCheney> I love fridays. 04:08:08 <hppavilion1> I'm not 04:08:13 <hppavilion1> I'm just out of practice 04:08:26 <ais523> anyway, I prefer it when this channel is about esolangs rather than trolling 04:08:30 <ZomieCheney> `learn ZomieCheney is ZombieCheney 04:08:33 <HackEgo> Learned 'zomiecheney': ZomieCheney is ZombieCheney 04:08:47 <ZomieCheney> Who is ZomieCheney? 04:08:48 <hppavilion1> True 04:08:50 <hppavilion1> Let's go back to that 04:08:51 <ais523> it's not coincidence that channel regulars (including me) sometimes disappear for months at a time 04:09:09 <ZomieCheney> I'm brand new to this, just trying things out. 04:09:21 <shachaf> Only a few people troll here. 04:09:31 <ZomieCheney> shachaf 04:09:44 <hppavilion1> So :≠ looks interesting 04:09:47 <ais523> hppavilion1: thanks 04:09:48 <hppavilion1> I wish it was cooler thoguh 04:09:56 <zzo38> Then make up a new kind 04:09:59 <ais523> hmm, how would you make it cooler? 04:10:01 <hppavilion1> Well 04:10:04 <hppavilion1> Not "Cooler' 04:10:12 <ZomieCheney> `learn hppavilion1 is ZombieCheney 04:10:14 <HackEgo> Learned 'hppavilion1': hppavilion1 is ZombieCheney 04:10:18 <hppavilion1> It just wasn't in line with my expectations 04:10:28 <hppavilion1> `revert 04:10:30 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 04:10:33 <hppavilion1> Seriously dude 04:10:37 <hppavilion1> Stop teaching it things 04:10:43 <ZomieCheney> Ok. 04:10:45 <hppavilion1> Without knowing 04:10:49 <hppavilion1> If there's something there 04:10:57 <ais523> hppavilion1: we can reset it all later 04:10:58 <ZomieCheney> Is there anything there? 04:11:00 <hppavilion1> `? hppavilion1 04:11:03 <HackEgo> higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed 04:11:04 <ais523> but oerjan's normally the person who does complex bot resets 04:11:09 <hppavilion1> That's from my very first day 04:11:21 <hppavilion1> It has sentimental value somehow 04:11:23 <zzo38> Just program HackEgo to refuse to be commanded by *!*/gateway/web/* for a few days 04:11:24 <hppavilion1> Don't teach over it 04:11:31 <ZomieCheney> oerjan is an actual person here? 04:11:42 <zzo38> Yes, sometimes 04:11:57 <ais523> I was trying to think of an appropriate answer to that but I like zzo38's 04:11:58 <ZomieCheney> So they also have a bot that signs in with that name? 04:12:10 <ais523> no, myndzi is the human that's also a bot 04:12:16 <ais523> \o/ 04:12:16 <myndzi> | 04:12:16 <myndzi> >\ 04:12:29 <ZomieCheney> Complicated, how do you keep track of all of it? 04:12:34 <zzo38> More properly I actually mean *!*@gateway/web/* 04:12:37 <ais523> there's a human and bot running on the same account with myndzi 04:12:45 <ais523> the bot tends to talk more though 04:13:13 <ais523> zzo38: what if a web user wants to play BF Joust, or test out esolang golf, or the like? 04:13:34 <ais523> you know, HackEgo's original purpose before it ended up getting overrun by welcome variants and wisdom and quotes 04:13:37 <zzo38> Well, then they have to either wait until the ban is removed or get their own IRC client 04:13:40 <ais523> (actually, EgoBot does BF Joust, I think) 04:13:50 <ZomieCheney> BF Joust? 04:13:51 <ais523> zzo38: ais523_ plays BF Joust sometimes, and doesn't have an IRC client 04:13:56 <ais523> ZomieCheney: [[e:BF Joust]] 04:13:58 <ais523> err 04:14:01 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust 04:14:10 <ais523> one of the most amazing esothings ever 04:14:23 <ais523> I've probably spent weeks of my life playing it and enjoyed nearly all of it 04:14:47 <ZomieCheney> Sounds like a brainfuck. 04:15:00 <zzo38> But ais523_ doesn't have an address fitting that range; it is cloaked 04:15:07 <zzo38> And anyways the ban should only be temporary 04:15:15 <ais523> zzo38: oh good point, ais523_ is indeed cloaked 04:15:15 <ZomieCheney> which ban? 04:15:22 <zzo38> A few days is sufficient. 04:15:24 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:15:35 <ais523> ais523__ isn't cloaked but I probably wouldn't try to play BF Joust from /there/ 04:15:46 <hppavilion1> What client would you guys reccommend? 04:15:51 <hppavilion1> I want to get a dedicated one 04:15:56 <zzo38> A suggested ban programmed into HackEgo temporarily 04:16:05 <ais523> hppavilion1: what OS are you on? 04:16:05 <zzo38> hppavilion1: I don't know; see what one you like. 04:16:30 <zzo38> I wrote my own IRC client because I don't like the other ones. You can also write your own if you want to. 04:16:32 <hppavilion1> Where is wisdom stored? 04:16:44 <zzo38> hppavilion1: In the HackEgo 04:16:52 <hppavilion1> ais523: Windows 8 04:16:54 <zzo38> You can view all of the files from the webpage too though 04:17:00 <hppavilion1> `ls 04:17:01 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a.o \ a.out \ argv.py \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ blah \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ factor \ faith \ fu \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ lib \ MaFV \ paste \ people.py \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elli 04:17:02 <ais523> hppavilion1: ugh, I was hoping you wouldn't say Windows :-( 04:17:11 <hppavilion1> I hate W8 04:17:15 <ais523> the most popular IRC client for Windows is mIRC but everyone else hates mIRC users 04:17:28 <hppavilion1> `cat error.log 04:17:32 <HackEgo> I 5053 pci_id: con ing! \ I 4681 ehci 0xf43d000:15: regista14: [0xbffff 0xfed nosabled 00-02] Zonseres: brips byted nored) \ W 3654 e8] PGTT ASF! 00f00000003.2: 0x000 - 0000: 00009dbfffec00000: Pround/f1743colled \ I 4076 verse.' \ I 4764 He trusts to you to set them free, \ I 858 your pocket?' he went on, turning to Alice. \ I 898 would be offende 04:17:42 <ais523> I think there are a couple of good lesser-known ones but don't know what they are 04:17:51 <ZomieCheney> MDude what are you doing with #RURNM 04:17:53 <ZomieCheney> ? 04:17:54 <hppavilion1> Ponies 04:18:13 <ZomieCheney> clop clop 04:18:15 <zzo38> You can look at the program I wrote too to see if you prefer this one (although, most people don't) 04:18:30 <hppavilion1> Is it command line? 04:18:32 <hppavilion1> If so, AWESOME 04:18:34 <ZomieCheney> which program did you write? 04:18:39 <hppavilion1> IRC client 04:18:51 <zzo38> I wrote a IRC client 04:18:57 <hppavilion1> clopclopclopclop 04:19:05 <ais523> zzo38's IRC client is basically raw IRC with syntax highlighting and a shortcut to send PRIVMSG 04:19:07 <hppavilion1> Is it on GitHub? 04:19:11 <zzo38> I wrote it in PHP because I don't know how to make internet software in C 04:19:20 <ais523> I'd be surprised if zzo38 had a github account 04:19:22 <zzo38> No, it is not in GitHub, you have to download the .zip file 04:19:24 <hppavilion1> Ah 04:19:34 <hppavilion1> OK 04:20:00 <ais523> I have one but only for work, my personal stuff is stored elsewhere (previously gitorious, now in a mix of places) 04:20:06 <ais523> (e.g. C-INTERCAL is on esr's server) 04:20:33 <ZomieCheney> +b EgoBot 04:21:07 <ZomieCheney> ais523 04:21:13 <ais523> why would I ban EgoBot? 04:21:29 <ZomieCheney> Just testing commands, I'm new at this. 04:21:58 <ais523> you just wrote "+b EgoBot" in the channel 04:22:04 <ais523> IRC doesn't use in-band commands (apart from CTCPs) 04:22:10 <ZomieCheney> yes, I wasn't sure what would happen. 04:22:17 <ais523> sending to a channel is the PRIVMSG command internally, banning is MODE 04:22:25 <ZomieCheney> This is my first day using IRC 04:22:27 <hppavilion1> +b hppavilion1 04:22:33 <hppavilion1> :P 04:22:44 <ZomieCheney> `learn ZombieChenie is a noob 04:22:46 <HackEgo> Learned 'zombiechenie': ZombieChenie is a noob 04:22:55 <zzo38> ZomieCheney: Well, then you must learn. You can find document in various document including the RFC document. 04:23:02 <hppavilion1> YES 04:23:08 <ais523> so the full command to ban EgoBot would be "MODE #esoteric :+b EgoBot", which in most clients would be written as "/quote MODE #esoteric :+b EgoBot" (or "/ban EgoBot" for short) 04:23:16 <hppavilion1> YOU UST READ THE RFC TO BE EVEN A NOOB AT IRC 04:23:31 <ZomieCheney> Request for comments? 04:23:36 <hppavilion1> No 04:23:43 <hppavilion1> Rabid Feral Cat 04:23:54 <zzo38> (Also see documentation for your client, if applicable) 04:24:02 <ZomieCheney> Good thing I got my rabies shot. 04:24:10 <hppavilion1> It's a mutated strain 04:24:27 <ZomieCheney> Mutants--- bad news 04:24:49 <ZomieCheney> MODE #esoteric :+b ZomieCheney 04:25:17 <ZomieCheney> Can you ban yourself? 04:25:23 <zzo38> Only if you are an operator 04:25:29 <oren_> not a rickroll https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71R2jE8W2Ag 04:25:38 <ZomieCheney> Who decides who is an operator? Other operators? 04:25:42 <zzo38> Only operators can ban people (including themself, I believe). 04:25:47 <zzo38> ZomieCheney: Yes. 04:25:51 <ais523> ZomieCheney: there are a number of rules 04:25:52 <hppavilion1> Yep 04:26:04 <hppavilion1> `rules 04:26:06 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rules: not found 04:26:10 <ais523> one rule is that an operator can temporarily make anyone else into an operator, but this doesn't explain how things get started 04:26:23 <hppavilion1> They get started when the channel is created 04:26:28 <ZomieCheney> What explains how things get started? 04:26:36 <ZomieCheney> Ahh 04:26:38 <pikhq> Yes. When a channel is created the person who joined the channel first is the op. 04:26:41 <hppavilion1> The first person to join is Grand Admin God 04:26:45 <ais523> another rule is that if a channel is empty, then if a person joins it (becoming the only member), they're an operator until they relinquish it 04:26:53 <ais523> but there are zero operators here right now 04:27:00 <zzo38> If you JOIN a channel that is not registered and has nobody in it, then the channel is created and you are operator for that channel. 04:27:02 <fowl> Channels are registered 04:27:08 <ais523> so what happens is that there's a second list for people who can become operators at will 04:27:18 <ZomieCheney> So, will anyone be an operator here again? 04:27:23 <ais523> with a separate set of access permissions (which can originally be set by the person who registers the channel) 04:27:24 <fowl> What is this free irc lessons 04:27:27 <zzo38> (You can make yourself not a operator too, if you wish, but then it is reset when everyone leaves the channel) 04:27:28 <ais523> fowl: why not? 04:27:33 <fowl> Somebody throw a pie 04:27:39 <zzo38> I don't have a pie 04:27:41 <ais523> ZomieCheney: well, if there were no operators here, then nobody could stop trolling, and that'd be a shame 04:27:43 <ais523> so I'd better correct it 04:27:45 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523. 04:27:45 <pikhq> ZomieCheney: Yes, the server's got a list of people it will make an op when asked. 04:27:48 <ais523> see, there's an operator her enow 04:27:50 <ais523> *here now 04:27:52 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -o ais523. 04:28:03 <ZomieCheney> π 04:28:11 <pikhq> Ooops, no more op. 04:28:15 <pikhq> Time to troll! 04:28:37 <ais523> Freenode convention is that you hide your op status 04:28:37 <ZomieCheney> OP's dead, long live op 04:28:42 <pikhq> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ A highly relevant URL. 04:28:51 <ais523> unless you're actively trying to speak "as an op" to tell people to behave themselves, or need to do an op action 04:28:51 <ZomieCheney> not clicking it 04:29:08 <hppavilion1> zvideos.com 04:29:17 <ZomieCheney> I like Z 04:29:24 <hppavilion1> It's hardcore porn; 04:29:33 <hppavilion1> In case you're wondering 04:29:41 <ZomieCheney> Even better 04:29:43 <hppavilion1> The link 04:29:45 <hppavilion1> Not zvideos 04:30:11 <ZomieCheney> Never gonna give you up! 04:30:33 <zzo38> I don't like to watch videos on computer, and I generally prefer the text. (I also don't like pornography, whether video or still, whether computer or TV.) 04:30:44 -!- ZomieCheney has quit (Quit: Page closed). 04:30:51 <hppavilion1> WOOHOO 04:31:16 <hppavilion1> What about textual porn? 04:31:46 <hppavilion1> zzo38 04:32:01 <zzo38> Not interested much 04:32:18 <hppavilion1> Weird 04:32:19 <ais523> ugh, I hate telling people to be more ontopic, mostly because it doesn't work 04:32:28 <hppavilion1> Right right 04:32:33 <pikhq> ais523: Context? 04:32:37 <hppavilion1> I'm going to go make a sex-based esolang 04:32:46 <ais523> pikhq: bad attempts at trolling 04:32:51 <ais523> that have been going on in this channel for a while now 04:32:58 <zzo38> OK, if you have something to make, fine 04:33:00 <pikhq> OIC. 04:33:12 <hppavilion1> I'm half-kidding 04:33:20 <zzo38> OK, that's fine too 04:33:55 <hppavilion1> Technically, every porno is a program 04:34:47 <hppavilion1> Because of image-based languages 04:35:57 <hppavilion1> If I keep this tab open I'll never get anything done 04:36:00 <hppavilion1> I'm going to leave 04:36:01 <hppavilion1> Bai 04:36:06 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 04:36:15 <zzo38> Possibly not a very good program though, and anyways is there any image-based esolang for movies, or only still pictures? 04:36:30 -!- adu has joined. 04:36:30 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit). 04:36:42 <myname> 3d languages! 04:36:46 <ais523> I don't actually think we have a video-based esolang yet 04:36:46 <zzo38> Or even add more dimensions and make it six-dimensional, to make it even more confusing. 04:36:54 <ais523> actually, given the existence of compression artifacts 04:37:05 <ais523> it could make for quite an interesting programming challenge if we had a max bitrate 04:37:20 <zzo38> ais523: Then make some. Yes, I like that idea too 04:37:21 <ais523> zzo38: past a certain point, extra dimensions don't really add confusion 04:37:35 <zzo38> Yes, I know, I am just saying anyways. 04:43:11 <fowl> Do yous alls know about games similar to the creatures franchise 04:44:06 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:44:12 <zzo38> I don't know about it much 04:44:23 <pikhq> Sgeo knows a lot about it. 05:08:23 <coppro> ais523: getting to reading about OCP 05:08:33 <coppro> in a function call, what is "the" object? 05:08:39 <ais523> coppro: OCP = ? 05:10:59 <coppro> object cooriented programming 05:11:08 <ais523> ah right 05:11:20 <ais523> so there's no direct function calls in TCTOE 05:11:33 <ais523> what you do instead is, you set a property (technically, a set key) on something 05:11:41 <ais523> then a trigger that triggers on that starts running as a result 05:12:14 <ais523> the thing that you set the property on is your "[this]" object, which might be an existing object, or might be something that you created for the purpose of triggering the trigger and otherwise meaningless 05:12:39 <coppro> ahh 05:13:37 <shachaf> `` rm wisdom/{revery,that,42.,send,42,discard,<zzo38>,ZombieCheney,ZomieCheney,ZombieChenie} 05:13:40 <HackEgo> bash: zzo38: No such file or directory 05:13:56 <ais523> and normally you're scope-setting it ("scope methodname { [object].methodname := +; }", or "[object].methodname!" for short) 05:13:59 <shachaf> `` rm wisdom/{revery,that,42.,send,42,discard,'<zzo38>',ZombieCheney,ZomieCheney,ZombieChenie} 05:14:02 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wisdom/ZombieCheney': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `wisdom/ZomieCheney': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `wisdom/ZombieChenie': No such file or directory 05:14:34 <fowl> Nooooooo you erase him from history 05:14:43 <shachaf> not yet hth 05:16:01 <shachaf> `` rm wisdom/{fuck,'<ZombieCheney>'} 05:16:03 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wisdom/<ZombieCheney>': No such file or directory 05:16:07 <shachaf> wow, this was a lot of vandalism 05:16:55 <ais523> definitely 05:17:38 <shachaf> Is there an easy way to revert individual files? 05:18:00 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/phi=e^i*t 05:18:01 <HackEgo> No output. 05:19:54 <shachaf> `` for w in wisdom i hppavilion1; do hg cat -r 5714 wisdom/"$w" > wisdom/"$w"; done 05:19:59 <HackEgo> No output. 05:20:51 <shachaf> Hm. 05:21:14 <shachaf> I guess one was already reverted. 05:25:01 -!- Wright_ has joined. 05:25:01 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:55:24 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:01:12 -!- Wright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:08:19 -!- gniourf has joined. 07:03:12 -!- variable has joined. 07:15:04 <augur_> so 07:15:12 <augur_> any good esolangs lately? 07:15:22 <augur_> anything novel or weird 07:16:24 <ais523> augur_: there's an unfinished one I'm working on which is pretty weird 07:16:32 <augur_> ais523: tell me more :) 07:16:33 <ais523> I posted the notes for it earlier 07:17:17 <ais523> <ais523> bearing in mind unfinished, everything is subject to change, etc.: http://sprunge.us/VjPi 07:17:19 <ais523> there we go 07:19:50 <augur_> its weird seeing people's names written in non-ascii chars 07:19:58 <augur_> like oerjans getting written as ørjan 07:20:13 <augur_> didnt even recognize it at first 07:20:15 <augur_> http://esoteric.codes/ 07:20:24 <augur_> ais523: reading 07:21:46 <augur_> ais523: no longer reading. this seems like an actually interesting paradigm, so ill have to look in depth tomorrow 07:22:04 <ais523> I put so much effort into getting my esolangs right 07:22:13 <ais523> that by the time they're finished, they've been vaporware for years 07:22:40 <ais523> (either that or they end up like Snowflake, where people conclude that they're interesting but nobody but me can follow what's going on and nobody wants to put in the effort to impl them) 08:04:30 <quintopia> ais523: i approve. i think it looks nice. if you can write the compiler, i would attempt to use it. (i can't see how one would go about adding IO extensions...my guess is that would depend on compiler implementation as well?) 08:05:06 <quintopia> also...not immediately obvious how arithmetic would work. would need a better mental grasp of the thing first. 08:06:15 <ais523> I have Plans for arithmetic (as a library) but haven't checked that they work yet 08:06:47 <ais523> mostly involving searching for existing numbers so that only one of each integer exists, then you take references to it 08:06:57 <ais523> (meaning that integers can meaningfully be compared on) 08:08:24 <Jafet> Just make integers mutable 08:09:52 <ais523> Jafet: well, they will be as a side-effect of the implementation, but mutating them wouldn't really have the results you might or might not want 08:09:59 <ais523> because it'd only affect existing uses of the integer 08:10:10 <ais523> a new integer would be created fresh if you produced it via calculation result 08:39:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:40:02 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:49:15 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:51:49 <Jafet> This language sounds like it can be modelled with a bunch of broadcast channels 08:52:14 <Jafet> (also concurrently providing a concurrent generalisation) 09:13:03 -!- Wright has joined. 09:15:45 <b_jonas> "(either that or they end up like Snowflake, where people conclude that they're interesting but [...] nobody wants to put in the effort to impl them)" -- or more like My Unreliable Past which is interesting as a theoretical model but not really worth to implement or program in 09:16:09 <ais523> My Unreliable Past is esolangs-as-art, rather than esolangs-as-programming 09:17:15 <b_jonas> I think part of my esolang enthusiasm got drowned when Wikiplia, a somewhat nice esolang that was practically usable with some inconveniences, died because tom7 brought down the only known copy of the implementation. 09:17:40 <b_jonas> Someone should try to make something like that. 09:18:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * MattTheGeek * New user account 09:19:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[APLBAONWSJAS]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43288&oldid=43004 * MattTheGeek * (+0) Corrected "am" to "an" 09:19:04 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:20:22 <mroman_> fnord. 09:21:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Wikiplia]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43289&oldid=20358 * B jonas * (+292) 09:22:40 <ais523> that new account is really heartwarming to me 09:22:49 <ais523> someone who saw a typo, and decided to make an account just to fix it 09:43:42 <b_jonas> what the 09:43:50 <b_jonas> but that's impossible 09:44:15 <ais523> ? 09:45:05 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Hubble#The_universe_goes_beyond_the_Milky_Way_galaxy says Edwin Hubble could identify single cepheid variable stars outside the Milky Way with a telescope in 1919 09:45:11 <b_jonas> no wait, in 1923 09:45:28 <b_jonas> isn't that like impossible because even the nearest galaxy is too far for that? 09:45:34 <b_jonas> in 1923? 09:45:40 <b_jonas> they didn't have that kind of technology back then 09:46:17 <ais523> b_jonas: might be a different definition of "milky way" 09:46:35 <ais523> it can also refer to the part of the sky that's inside the plane of our galaxy 09:46:47 <b_jonas> ais523: no, definitely refers to other galaxies 09:46:49 <ais523> if you look out of the plane of the galaxy, you can still see some stars which are part of the galaxy itself 09:46:55 <ais523> because it isn't infinitely thin 09:47:16 <ais523> (the plane of the galaxy is visible as one continuous object, and has the name "milky way" from its appearance) 09:47:21 <b_jonas> I might have been imprecise, but it's definitely about other galaxies 10:02:02 <Deewiant> b_jonas: Wikiplia seems to still exist, just renamed to PyPedia http://www.pypedia.com/index.php/Main_Page 10:03:07 <Deewiant> (Unless WikiPL is actually a different thing, the history of the esolangs article is confusing) 10:04:33 <Deewiant> Yeah apparently it is a different thing, reading the diffs clarified. 10:04:42 <Deewiant> b_jonas: Disregard, it's not the same after all 10:12:28 -!- S1 has joined. 10:26:03 -!- boily has joined. 10:27:20 <Jafet> "Classical Cepheids are Population I variable stars which are 4–20 times more massive than the Sun, and up to 100,000 times more luminous." 10:27:28 <Jafet> I assume those are easier to spot with a telescope 10:29:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:36:56 <oerjan> a tip, people, if you want me to #¤%¤"& clean up stuff, is _not_ to do other things afterwards. because the only thing that's actually easy is to revert the entire database to a specific revision. hth. 10:37:16 <oerjan> now to choose which revision... 10:37:31 <oerjan> *+ in HackEgo 10:38:05 <oerjan> also, it would also help if you stopped using `revert *without* a revision number for major cleanup. it is far too hard to follow. 10:38:48 <ais523> oerjan: actually the reason I called you in was that people had made so many incorrect cleanup attempts that I realised it was all too hard for me to follow 10:39:00 <oerjan> oh wait there's that idiotic `revert bug which means it's not easy at all to undelete file creations... 10:39:03 <oerjan> or is it. 10:39:27 <oerjan> ais523: please, if people do that, kick them a bit twh 10:40:02 <ais523> I was loudly hinting that perhaps people should be behaving more sensibly 10:40:06 <oerjan> hm i guess maybe shachaf _did_ a fairly good job at the end. 10:40:06 <ais523> but I'm too timid to use op powers 10:40:15 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 10:40:29 -!- oerjan has kicked ais523 Learn to use your op powers!. 10:40:34 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 10:40:50 * oerjan whistles worriedly if he went too far 10:42:02 -!- S1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:42:45 <oerjan> also, i haven't read it all but i recall zzo38 suggesting making HackEgo ignore the guy. afaik that's not actually possible for anyone other than fizzie and Gregor/Guest62171 to do, and we've been waiting for any of them to de-idle for a week... 10:43:06 <oerjan> (i think there already is an ignore list and one person is on it) 10:44:15 <oerjan> yep, pretty much exactly a week 10:44:49 <oerjan> (Guest62171's 4 days doesn't count because that was a pingout) 10:47:29 <boily> hellørjan. I'm beginning to strongly suspect that fizzie's on vacation. 10:47:33 <boily> @massages-loud 10:47:33 <lambdabot> tswett said 7h 36m 32s ago: implement Al Dente twbh hth 10:47:48 <boily> tswellott. twbh? 10:48:05 <oerjan> helloily. we are doomed. DOOMED. 10:48:55 <boily> the fungot has left, ais523's been whistledly kicked, Guest62171 is completely inert and I haven't had breakfast yet. 10:49:00 <boily> it's apocalyptic! 10:52:50 <mroman_> You eat breakfast? 10:53:17 * oerjan munches some mackerel in tomato sauce 10:54:00 <boily> mrhelloman_. today it's toasts with baba ghanoush. (gannouj?) 10:59:54 <oerjan> boily: i'm pretty sure "that would be helpful" 11:00:34 <oerjan> Guest62171 is pretty much inert by default, though. 11:11:38 <oerjan> `? htmarriagel 11:11:51 <HackEgo> HTMarriageL I now pronounce you Markup Language and StyleSheet Language 11:12:22 <oerjan> `rm wisdom/htmarriagel 11:12:25 <HackEgo> No output. 11:12:39 <oerjan> that just doesn't fit the format 11:13:07 <oerjan> and fixing it would lose the caps 11:15:39 <int-e> \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 11:15:39 <myndzi> | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 11:15:40 <myndzi> >\ c.c /| /^\| | /| c.c /`\ | /| | |\ c.c /| 11:15:40 <myndzi> /`\ (_|¯'\ 11:15:41 <myndzi> (_| |_) |_) 11:16:37 -!- oerjan has set topic: oren_ found the last bug. oh wait... | fungot withdrawal is getting severe - we may not survive this. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/. 11:18:40 <boily> oerjan: tdh. 11:24:26 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DESSICATED CHICKEN). 11:31:34 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 11:31:51 -!- idris-bot has joined. 11:38:38 -!- S1 has joined. 11:38:53 -!- S1 has quit (Client Quit). 11:47:57 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:52:26 -!- zadock has joined. 11:54:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:57:36 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:15:41 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:24:21 <oerjan> @tell shachaf <shachaf> oerjan: i thought the internationale united the human race <-- and it would have worked, if not for those pesky Americans hth 12:24:21 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 12:24:25 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 12:26:37 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 12:40:08 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:48:09 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 12:48:45 -!- husanu1 has joined. 12:50:04 -!- husanu1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:54:44 -!- husanu1 has joined. 12:56:24 <Taneb> @ping 12:56:24 <lambdabot> pong 12:58:37 -!- husanu1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:10:50 -!- husanux3 has joined. 13:11:08 -!- husanux3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:12:46 -!- husanux4 has joined. 13:16:28 -!- husanux4 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:18:00 -!- husanux8 has joined. 13:19:07 -!- husanux8 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:23:14 -!- husanux9 has joined. 13:27:12 -!- husanux9 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:38:18 -!- spiette has joined. 13:45:19 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:45:42 -!- lleu has joined. 13:45:42 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 13:45:42 -!- lleu has joined. 13:47:38 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:58:26 <oerjan> `? i 13:58:49 <HackEgo> i love monoids 14:02:35 <oerjan> `? fuck 14:02:35 <HackEgo> fuck? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:02:44 <oerjan> `` hg cat fuck 14:02:45 <HackEgo> fuck: no such file in rev 5eb460d80a68 14:02:52 <oerjan> `` hg cat wisdom/fuck 14:02:53 <HackEgo> wisdom/fuck: no such file in rev 5eb460d80a68 14:03:00 <oerjan> good, good 14:03:23 <Jafet> `quote fuck 14:03:23 <HackEgo> 175) <ais523> I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f of brainfuck <ais523> that's just the most hilarious place to cut it off in a discussion about censorshi \ 220) <oerjan> <Gregor> oerjan: Tell us what (a(b{c}d)*2e)%2 expands to <-- ababcdbcdedbabcdbcdede, i think <Gregor> oerjan: What - the - fuck \ 238) <oklopol> okay see in m 14:07:27 <oerjan> shachaf: hm on reading the logs, it seems like most of the attempts to `revert file creations worked. 14:07:33 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:07:35 <oerjan> recently. 14:13:50 <oerjan> @tell shachaf Good cleaning up job tdh 14:13:50 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 14:14:18 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 14:14:37 -!- lleu has joined. 14:22:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:22:09 -!- hilquias` has joined. 14:23:51 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:25:26 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 14:41:11 -!- gamemanj has joined. 14:47:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:58:01 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 15:12:10 -!- llue has joined. 15:15:14 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:15:41 <b_jonas> oh! 15:15:44 <b_jonas> I have an idea 15:16:03 <Taneb> :? 15:16:13 <b_jonas> do you know how DOS (and windows cmd inheriting from it) has some built-in aliases: MD = MKDIR; CD = CHDIR; DEL = ERASE right? 15:16:25 <b_jonas> well let's make a variant shell where REMOVE and REM are also aliases of DEL 15:17:54 <b_jonas> DEL already takes any number of filenames, and it will just ignore nonexistant files 15:17:57 <b_jonas> brilliant 15:18:14 <shachaf> oerjan: well, some of the reverts didn't work 15:18:48 <shachaf> @messages-thud 15:18:48 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2h 54m 27s ago: <shachaf> oerjan: i thought the internationale united the human race <-- and it would have worked, if not for those pesky Americans hth 15:18:48 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1h 4m 58s ago: Good cleaning up job tdh 15:22:22 <Taneb> b_jonas, isn't REM normally a comment? 15:22:27 <mroman_> DEL /S /R C: 15:22:31 <mroman_> REM is a comment 15:22:42 <mroman_> hm 15:22:48 <mroman_> DEL /A /S /R probably even 15:23:22 <mroman_> nope 15:23:30 <b_jonas> Taneb: exactly 15:24:06 <mroman_> DEL C:\ /f /s /q 15:24:34 <mroman_> /f for read-only files, /s for recursive and /q for no-fucking-prompt 15:25:03 <b_jonas> when I invoke ImageMagick as identify --vers why does it think "--vers" is a filename for a non-existant file rather than a non-existant switch? 15:25:39 <b_jonas> it doesn't do that for single-hyphen options (ImageMagick normally uses only long options with single hyphen) 15:27:30 <shachaf> oerjan: oh, you're not even here 15:51:05 <oren_> wai wai wait-- the imagemagick programs are just the same program inoked under a different name? 15:52:42 <shachaf> wait++ 15:56:50 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 16:02:56 <b_jonas> oh argh 16:03:12 <b_jonas> oren_: no, they're approximately seven different programs 16:04:02 <b_jonas> oren_: they're not links or anything, they're different small executables containing a main function and a link to a shared library basically 16:04:44 <b_jonas> bash doesn't like it if you type shopt -s extglob; and use extglobs right in the same line. the exglobs are parsed only starting from the next line. 16:04:48 <b_jonas> stupid non-lazy parser 16:13:09 <Jafet> @area wait 16:13:09 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: karma free arr 16:13:21 <hppavilion1> Hello peoples 16:13:23 <Jafet> @warm wait 16:13:23 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: yarr part karma arr 16:13:45 <Jafet> @magma wait 16:13:45 <lambdabot> wait has a karma of -5 16:17:48 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:23:55 -!- password2_ has joined. 16:25:22 -!- nys has joined. 16:43:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:45:48 -!- zadock has joined. 16:47:26 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 16:47:27 <hppavilion1> I'm back 16:49:58 <APic\splat> wb 17:12:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cod]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43290 * Phase * (+687) Create cod page 17:13:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cod]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43291&oldid=43290 * Phase * (+4) Fix links in cod 17:26:34 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:43:32 -!- mihow has joined. 17:45:55 <hppavilion1> It's funny how on an IRC like this, saying you're writing a programming language is no big deal 17:46:52 <fowl> Hi :) 17:47:46 <hppavilion1> Hi 17:47:54 <hppavilion1> :) 17:48:23 <hppavilion1> What may be interesting is that I'm writing a python program for a new data structure I need 17:48:26 <fowl> I was thinking about a programming language with required typing where you have to annotate the type of each expression before the expression itself, and this wouldnt help overloading or anything its just required because the compiler is pedantic 17:48:41 <hppavilion1> To be the output of a lexer for a new programming language I'm writing 17:49:00 <hppavilion1> Iteresting 17:49:09 <hppavilion1> *interesting 17:49:22 <fowl> 1 would look like [int]1, 1+1 would be [int][(int, int) -> int][int]1 + [int]1 17:49:26 <hppavilion1> Ah 17:49:37 <hppavilion1> Well that'd be annoying 0.o 17:49:50 <fowl> Yes :} 17:49:51 <hppavilion1> Good think K&R weren't that lazy 17:50:25 <hppavilion1> O0 17:50:28 <fowl> The goal is quadruple the amount of code you have to write and make refactoring impossible 17:50:36 <hppavilion1> Awesome! 17:50:37 <fowl> (Creating job security) 17:50:51 <hppavilion1> I imagine that in the future, it will be the manager's programming language of choice :P 17:51:18 <hppavilion1> What if you had to annotate the type expected as output from an operator? 17:51:27 <hppavilion1> Oh 17:51:28 <hppavilion1> You do 17:51:30 <hppavilion1> :P 17:51:38 * hppavilion1 facepalms 17:51:49 <fowl> And it may require a [void] if that int isnt used 17:51:55 <hppavilion1> Wow 17:52:01 <hppavilion1> That'll be fun to write :P 17:52:12 <hppavilion1> I'm making a language that's actually useful for somethign 17:52:19 <hppavilion1> *something 17:52:26 <fowl> Me too (i hope) 17:52:34 <hppavilion1> Yeah 17:52:44 <fowl> Working on a smalltalk without inheritance 17:52:49 <hppavilion1> Cool 17:53:10 <hppavilion1> Mine is Declarative and based on that new data structure I had to implement 17:53:13 <hppavilion1> It's called Peano 17:53:34 <fowl> What data structure 17:54:30 <hppavilion1> Ordered Associative Array 17:55:33 <hppavilion1> Basically a map with a concept of Order 17:56:54 <fowl> Ah 17:58:15 <hppavilion1> So you can reference a value by a key or a key by an integer 17:58:20 <hppavilion1> Only downside is that values can't be keys 17:58:21 <hppavilion1> Which could be a problem, now that I think about it 17:58:23 <hppavilion1> Wait, values can't be keys? 17:58:26 <hppavilion1> Why'd I say that? 17:58:36 <hppavilion1> I meant values can't be numbers, as numbers are used for indices 18:00:15 -!- husanu3 has joined. 18:00:50 -!- variable has joined. 18:02:48 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:07:02 <shachaf> Taneb: 18:07:13 <shachaf> 2012-03-23 22:23:10 +0200 Taneb I've got a brilliant esolang 18:07:19 <shachaf> 2012-03-23 22:23:14 +0200 Taneb I just need a name 18:07:29 <shachaf> 2012-03-23 22:24:41 +0200 ion taneb: Real Fast Nora’s Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 18:07:35 <shachaf> 2012-03-23 22:25:10 +0200 Taneb I'm actually going to use that name 18:12:02 -!- lemurian has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 18:12:07 -!- husanu3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:12:39 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 18:25:34 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 18:38:32 <FireFly> good choice imo 18:39:45 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:39:53 <HackEgo> mips/MIPS Is Popular in Schools. 18:39:55 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:39:55 <shachaf> [A 18:39:56 <HackEgo> wise/Uninstalling software installed by the Wise Installation Wizard is unwise. It's neither clockwise nor counterclockwise nor otherwise. 18:39:57 <b_jonas> shachaf: oh! that's how he's got that name? I never knew 18:40:27 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:40:28 <HackEgo> code/[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078... 18:40:36 <shachaf> b_jonas: Well, a spam bot created that wiki page. 18:40:59 <shachaf> But deciding to use it was a good decision on everyone's part. 18:44:14 -!- lemurian has joined. 18:45:09 -!- mihow_ has joined. 18:45:26 -!- hilquias` has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:45:52 -!- password2_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:47:31 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:47:31 -!- mihow_ has changed nick to mihow. 18:53:25 <int-e> `culprits code 18:53:31 <HackEgo> No output. 18:53:45 <int-e> `culprits wisdom/code 18:53:49 <HackEgo> tswett int-e 18:53:50 <b_jonas> shachaf: wait, a spam bot that creates pages with actual good names? 18:53:53 <b_jonas> wow 18:53:56 <b_jonas> I hope you didn't ban it fast 18:56:26 <shachaf> There's a movie called Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster 18:56:38 <shachaf> Presumably the spam bot was advertising a real fast download of that movie. 18:56:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:57:07 -!- nycs has joined. 18:58:46 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:58:50 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 19:00:10 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:03:52 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 19:38:34 -!- hilquias has joined. 19:56:50 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 19:58:25 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:58:36 <HackEgo> cow/A cow is an animal best served at minus zero degrees. 19:58:39 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:58:40 <HackEgo> metaturing/This wisdom entry was crushed by a falling anvil. 19:59:57 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:59:58 <HackEgo> croissont supplier/See misspellings of croissant 20:01:00 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 20:02:05 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:03:52 -!- mihow has joined. 20:04:11 <Melvar> `? misspellings of croissant 20:04:12 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:04:25 <Melvar> `? misspellings of croissant 20:04:25 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:04:35 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:04:36 <HackEgo> phantom____________________hoover/<span accent="British">Your soundcard works perfectly.</span> 20:04:54 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:04:55 <HackEgo> willkommen/Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen besuchen Sie das Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf EFnet oder DALnet.) 20:04:58 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:04:59 <HackEgo> turkey/Turkey was the center of an empire that gobbled up much of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, something which brought them into conflict with Ostrich. In the 19th century the overstuffed empire started declining, and after the Great War it was cut up like so much Shish Kebab. 20:07:55 -!- nycs has joined. 20:12:38 <zzo38> `? SQL 20:12:39 <HackEgo> SQL? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:16:55 <tswett> Someone should really come up with the next SQL. 20:17:12 <tswett> "Haskell, except a database query language instead of a programming language". 20:17:48 <zzo38> SQL is a real programming language. But it is a database query language 20:18:38 <tswett> `? monoid 20:18:38 <HackEgo> Monoids are just categories with a single object. 20:18:46 <tswett> Hey what 20:18:47 <tswett> `? monoids 20:18:48 <HackEgo> Monoids are the easy version of categories. 20:18:51 <tswett> There we go. 20:19:01 <tswett> I love wisdom/monoids. 20:19:22 <zzo38> I think SQL is mostly fine as it is, although there are a few things missing that should have 20:22:28 <zzo38> Such as: CREATE FUNCTION name(args) AS expression; CREATE FUNCTION name(args) ACCUMULATING(vars) AS expression; CREATE FUNCTION name(args) ACCUMULATING INTO table AS expression; TRY ... CATCH ... END; FOREVER statement; and trigger-index support (where there is an index of triggers attached to a view) 20:23:29 <gamemanj> But what about CREATE BFFUNCTION? 20:23:56 <zzo38> You don't need 20:27:01 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:27:02 <HackEgo> boxmodel/boxmodel is how we figure out how big Taneb's cage is going to be. 20:28:12 <zzo38> When I was play Dungeons&Dragons game, getting past the dragon wasn't too difficult, as they didn't intend to fight me but only to ask us some riddles. 20:32:44 <b_jonas> zzo38: which Dungeons&Dragons game? as in, what console and approximate year of release/ 20:33:22 <zzo38> No console, it is played by paper 20:33:38 <b_jonas> oh, you mean actual Dungeons&Dragons 20:33:50 <b_jonas> I see 20:34:05 <b_jonas> I didn't think it was that because you mentioned "the dragon" 20:34:14 <zzo38> `? danddreclist 20:34:15 <HackEgo> http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex (the precompiled .dvi is also available) 20:34:19 <zzo38> It is that one 20:34:54 <b_jonas> right, it's just that "the dragon" about D&D in general doesn't have much context, if it's about a particular game it can 20:37:19 <zzo38> But now I found a large city where only human is allowed, no dwarf, elf (including drow), troll, otyugh, beholder, etc is allowed. A wizard made up our entire aprty invisible except two soldier. I try to think of what to do next, since this invisibility spell can expire, doesn't work in anti-magic field, and doesn't work if you attack either. 20:37:38 <b_jonas> I wonder, would it make sense to add a dwim switch to ls (the unix utility) that changes behavior depending on whether the filenames given in command line end with a slash or not: if there's no trailing slash, the files are listed as with the -d switch, but if there's a trailing slash their contents are listed as without -d. 20:38:17 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes it might, actually 20:38:44 <shachaf> zzo38: Is a precompiled .pdf available? 20:38:52 <zzo38> shachaf: No, only DVI and source 20:38:57 <shachaf> .pdf is more convenient for me than .dvi because my browser can open it directly. 20:39:01 <b_jonas> this works especially in bash where the default (but changeable) is to put a trailing slash when you tab-expand a directory 20:39:04 <zzo38> (Make a PDF yourself if you want one) 20:39:08 <b_jonas> shachaf: should I make a pdf? 20:39:19 <shachaf> b_jonas: Sure, if it's up to date. 20:39:37 <shachaf> zzo38: It would be more convenient if you generated one. 20:39:43 <b_jonas> shachaf: I'd download the tex source now and pdftex it 20:39:49 <Melvar> b_jonas: So you can then alias ls='ls --dwim' ? 20:39:59 <b_jonas> (or pdflatex or whatever it wants) 20:40:11 <zzo38> But also shell should be change so that if you have wildcard that matches file with - at the front then it also adds the path (such as ./ if it is) 20:40:22 <b_jonas> Melvar: dunno, I'd look at what all the existing options are called before I decide on a name 20:40:33 <b_jonas> zzo38: exactly 20:40:36 <zzo38> I don't like long options much though 20:40:47 <b_jonas> oh, add a ./ prefix? 20:40:54 <shachaf> zzo38: You can generated a PDF file with pdfTeX 20:41:05 <b_jonas> I think there was a kludge for that in old versions, but no, I wouldn't like to change wildcards to always do that 20:41:21 <b_jonas> I rather just add a double hyphen or ./ manually when needed 20:42:38 <zzo38> I think you are correct; better can be to set an environment variable where the filename starts, maybe 20:42:40 <b_jonas> zzo38: the ./ prefix can sometimes be inconvenient (or break things) because many programs use the filename in ways other than opening it 20:42:51 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, setting an environment variable was the old kludge 20:43:53 <zzo38> shachaf: I don't have pdfTeX, and I do not guarantee it works in anything other than the One True TeX. (You can still use an external DVI->PDF converter if pdfTeX doesn't work, but I don't have that) 20:44:57 <b_jonas> zzo38: pdftex almost always works if One True TeX works. and in my experience, it works better than converting dvi to pdf or converting postscript to pdf, but this isn't absolute. 20:45:10 <b_jonas> I use pdftex (or pdflatex mostly) a lot 20:46:17 <zzo38> If it does work, you are free to do so. If not, well, you are at least free to try. 20:46:52 <b_jonas> shachaf: which level of detail do you want? max? 20:47:01 <shachaf> I don't know. 20:47:29 <shachaf> I'm not sure that I'd read it. 20:47:34 <shachaf> But a PDF would certainly be convenient. 20:48:14 <zzo38> The DVI is compiled at detail level 5, although you can specify a lower one if you don't want that. Detail level 6 is probably too much unless you want to analyze the character progressions in much detail. 20:48:42 <b_jonas> shachaf: try http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/zzo38-dnd-level20.pdf.gz 20:48:56 <shachaf> .gz? 20:49:00 <b_jonas> that's detail 6 20:49:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:49:09 <b_jonas> shachaf: well it's slightly smaller that way 20:49:19 <b_jonas> and you probably have a gzip decompressor 20:49:46 <b_jonas> pdftex doesn't generate a very compressed pdf alone 20:49:49 <shachaf> Yes, but my browser will show a PDF file in a tab directly if it's sent as application/pdf. 20:50:13 <b_jonas> shachaf: doesn't it show a gzip-compressed one? some pdf/ps viewers do that automatically 20:50:28 <shachaf> Seems not. 20:50:33 <shachaf> I won't be reading this right now anyway. 20:50:48 <b_jonas> well, probably I'm not sending application/pdf as the header for it 21:02:49 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:03:27 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:06:28 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:06:33 <HackEgo> xyzzy/Nothing happens. 21:06:34 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:06:35 <HackEgo> thanks ants/thants 21:06:35 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:06:36 <HackEgo> nak/ 21:06:39 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:06:39 <HackEgo> phở/Phở là một món ăn truyền thống của Việt Nam, cũng có thể xem là một trong những món ăn đặc trưng nhất cho ẩm thực Việt Nam. 21:06:43 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:06:44 <HackEgo> nooooodle/Noooooodles are the invention of the Chinese. They were brought to Europe by Marco Polo, a distant ancestor of Taneb. 21:08:45 <pikhq> shachaf: What *should* be happening (of course) is it should be applicaton/pdf with Content-encoding: gzip. 21:08:53 <pikhq> Or for extra fun, Transfer-encoding: gzip. 21:08:56 <shachaf> pikhq: Sure. 21:09:02 <shachaf> But I don't really care about the encoding. 21:09:05 <shachaf> Are you in MTV yet? 21:09:15 <pikhq> Not yet. 21:09:40 <oerjan> `? mtv 21:09:40 <HackEgo> mtv? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:09:58 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:10:53 <shachaf> @metar KOAK 21:10:53 <lambdabot> KOAK 252053Z 30012KT 10SM CLR 25/13 A2989 RMK AO2 SLP123 T02500128 58008 21:10:55 <shachaf> @metar KSJC 21:10:55 <lambdabot> KSJC 252053Z 31007KT 10SM CLR 29/13 A2987 RMK AO2 SLP115 T02940133 58010 21:11:11 <oerjan> @metar ENVA 21:11:11 <lambdabot> ENVA 252050Z 24010KT 9999 -RA FEW012 BKN025 09/07 Q1015 RMK WIND 670FT 26013KT 21:11:14 <oerjan> ;_; 21:12:23 <pikhq> oerjan: "Mountain View". 21:12:35 <oerjan> aha 21:13:30 -!- mihow has joined. 21:14:47 <oerjan> i'm sure elliott would have taken care of the zombie troll at a decent speed. 21:15:21 <shachaf> oerjan: i see what you're getting at 21:15:53 <oerjan> good, good 21:16:27 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:16:28 <HackEgo> lie/Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups. 21:16:57 <oerjan> also, he'd probably have identified it as either hagb4rd or cheater. 21:17:40 <shachaf> ok maybe i don't see what you're getting at 21:17:56 <oerjan> MAYBE 21:18:03 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:18:04 <HackEgo> ​å/å is the same letter as Å, unless you're HackEgo and don't understand things on top of letters. 21:18:06 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:18:07 <HackEgo> ​?/? is wisdom 21:18:09 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:18:10 <HackEgo> sparse matrix algorithm/Sparse matrix algorithms are a trivial special case of non-sparse matrix algorithms, by conjugating with the sparsification operation. 21:18:23 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:18:24 <oerjan> it is difficult to oracle this 21:18:25 <HackEgo> fact/facts are lies. They are not there. Go away! 21:18:37 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:18:38 <HackEgo> bigchar/bigchar ௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵ 21:18:42 <oerjan> wut 21:18:48 <shachaf> what's all that about 21:18:55 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/bigcharà 21:18:58 <HackEgo> No output. 21:19:05 <oerjan> wut 21:19:11 <zzo38> That isn't the filename 21:19:16 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/bigcharà 21:19:18 <HackEgo> No output. 21:19:35 <zzo38> The actual filename is "wisdom/bigchar" followed by an invalid UTF-8 sequence probably 21:19:43 <oerjan> oh 21:20:03 <oerjan> `` culprits wisdom/bigchar* 21:20:05 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull guestbot guestbot 21:20:08 <shachaf> `` culprits wisdom/bigchar* 21:20:10 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull guestbot guestbot 21:20:10 <shachaf> oops 21:20:26 <oerjan> `` url wisdom/bigchar* 21:20:27 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/bigchar%E0 21:20:57 <shachaf> `` hg log culprits/bigchar* | greps summary: 21:20:59 <HackEgo> bash: greps: command not found 21:21:03 <shachaf> `` hg log culprits/bigchar* | grep summary: 21:21:05 <HackEgo> No output. 21:21:15 <shachaf> er 21:21:20 <shachaf> `` hg log wisdom/bigchar* | grep summary: 21:21:21 <HackEgo> summary: <oerjan> revert \ summary: <Bike> revert \ summary: <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ summary: <guestbot> learn bigchar \xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\x 21:21:46 <oerjan> i won't mind if you delete it 21:21:56 <shachaf> but you won't do it yourself, huh? 21:22:21 <shachaf> fine 21:22:22 <shachaf> `` rm wisdom/bigchar* 21:22:24 <HackEgo> No output. 21:22:30 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:22:31 <HackEgo> article/An article is something that `learn can understand. 21:22:32 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:22:34 <HackEgo> gotton/gotton is a quantum of attention. Solain drives the packet. 21:22:40 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:25:29 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:25:30 <HackEgo> tar/The command you're looking for is probably either tar -xavkf or tar -cavf 21:25:55 <shachaf> oren_: i've never looked for either of those commands tdnh 21:26:58 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:26:59 <HackEgo> nitia/nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. 21:27:49 <oerjan> shachaf: i think those are oren_'s recommendations 21:28:13 <shachaf> `` ls -l wisdom/*wolfram 21:28:14 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 83 Apr 15 07:52 wisdom/stephen wolfram \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 83 Apr 15 07:52 wisdom/wolfram 21:28:21 <shachaf> `? stephen wolfram 21:28:22 <HackEgo> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 21:28:23 <shachaf> `? wolfram 21:28:23 <HackEgo> Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 21:28:26 <shachaf> what's all this about 21:28:34 <shachaf> revert issues? 21:28:48 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:28:53 <oerjan> i think so, previous experiments show `revert can undo symbolic links 21:29:08 -!- MDude has joined. 21:29:22 <shachaf> `` rm wisdom/wolfram; ln -s stephen\ wolfram wisdom/wolfram 21:29:24 <HackEgo> No output. 21:30:08 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 21:34:31 <oerjan> * fowl is god, AMA <-- wtf is WRONG with you twh 21:34:47 <zzo38> What does "AMA" mean? 21:35:02 <fowl> I dont remember saying that 21:35:11 <oerjan> zzo38: "ask me anything" 21:35:14 <fowl> I may have typed it instead 21:35:27 <zzo38> O, OK 21:35:27 <fowl> But fr i dont remember typing that 21:35:45 <oerjan> fowl: http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2015-06-25#040516 21:36:52 <fowl> Probably some hacker wannabe fowl said that 21:37:21 * oerjan skeptical, also wondering if fowl misinterpreted him 21:37:36 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:37:37 <HackEgo> phantom____________________hoover/<span accent="British">Your soundcard works perfectly.</span> 21:38:15 <shachaf> oerjan: well you said pretty much the same thing one time when you banned me from this channel 21:38:32 <oerjan> fowl: that wasn't reprimanding you, that was taking you at face value hth 21:38:46 <oerjan> shachaf: hm rings a bell. you probably deserved it hth 21:38:54 <fowl> I dont know what twh means 21:38:59 <shachaf> oerjan: it had to do with roald dahl hth 21:39:02 <oerjan> ` 21:39:02 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 21:39:07 <oerjan> oops 21:39:10 <oerjan> `? twh 21:39:11 <HackEgo> twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 21:39:55 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:40:03 <fowl> O 21:42:18 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:42:18 <HackEgo> forth/Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication. 21:44:46 -!- variable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:45:03 -!- variable has joined. 21:46:48 * oerjan suddenly wonders if the (english) bible contains any other programming language names 21:47:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:47:36 <shachaf> `wisdom 21:47:37 <HackEgo> ham/Ham is a kind of meat. It is popular in Hexham, among other places. 21:47:58 -!- vanila has joined. 21:49:43 <shachaf> oerjan: presumably a lot of languages whose names are taken from common english words 21:49:57 <oerjan> fancy 21:51:03 <shachaf> go, forth, scheme, visual basic .net, ruby, inform 21:51:06 <shachaf> those sorts of things 21:51:38 -!- Herbalist has joined. 21:51:59 <oerjan> `? herbalist 21:52:00 <HackEgo> herbalist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:52:20 <oerjan> `learn A herbalist is a list of herbas. 21:52:22 <HackEgo> Learned 'herbalist': A herbalist is a list of herbas. 22:02:01 <shachaf> `wisdom 22:02:01 <HackEgo> rhubarb/Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb, rhubarb: rhubarb rhubarb? Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb rhubarb. 22:03:18 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:03:54 <shachaf> `wisdom 22:03:55 <HackEgo> mroman/mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function. He's also an artist in unconventional warfare. 22:04:07 <shachaf> `wisdom 22:04:09 <HackEgo> thyme/Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano. 22:05:12 <vanila> \o/ \./ 22:05:13 <myndzi> | 22:05:13 <myndzi> >\ 22:05:16 <vanila> \./ \./ 22:05:18 <vanila> \./ \o/ 22:05:18 <myndzi> | 22:05:18 <myndzi> /| 22:05:29 <vanila> |o| 22:05:29 <myndzi> | 22:05:29 <myndzi> |\ 22:05:36 <vanila> |o||o||o| 22:05:36 <myndzi> | | | 22:05:37 <myndzi> /'\/< /'\ 22:05:41 <vanila> |o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o||o| 22:06:45 <oren_> \,/ 22:06:54 <vanila> \,/\,/\,/ 22:07:01 <oren_> aww no handstanding stick figures? 22:07:09 <vanila> nice idea 22:07:21 <vanila> \o/ \o/ HAYY BIRTHDAY \o/ \o/ 22:07:22 <myndzi> | ¦ | | 22:07:22 <myndzi> /< ´¸¨ >\ /| 22:07:44 <vanila> ´¸¨ whot is dat lol 22:08:04 <oren_> \o/ 22:08:09 <oren_> \o/ 22:08:09 <myndzi> | 22:08:10 <myndzi> /< 22:08:20 <vanila> \o/|o||o||o||o||o| 22:08:20 <myndzi> | | | | | | 22:08:21 <myndzi> >\/| /< /| >\/^\ 22:08:32 <vanila> \o/|o||o||o||o||o| 22:08:33 <myndzi> | | | | | | 22:08:33 <myndzi> /'\/^\ >\/< /'\/| 22:08:58 <oren_> what is /^\ 22:09:07 <vanila> legs 22:10:52 <vanila> whats up any new esolang stuff 22:14:01 <oerjan> `? zombiecheney 22:14:02 <HackEgo> ZombieCheney lives under a bridge. 22:14:20 <oren_> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Mov 22:14:35 <vanila> thats' so cool!!!!! 22:14:39 <oren_> that was me, implying that ZC is a troll 22:14:52 <vanila> there's a thing about branchless programming in assembly 22:14:56 <vanila> to make it pipelined 22:15:02 <vanila> its meant to be faster 22:15:05 <oerjan> oren_: yes, i'm just getting to the point of the logs where shachaf tried to delete that but failed 22:15:09 <vanila> so there's some cool tricks in it 22:15:15 <vanila> and there's also cryptography 22:15:20 <vanila> where you sometimes want branchless code 22:15:31 <shachaf> oerjan: oops 22:15:47 <oerjan> he kept forgetting about case, and then his revert trick only reverted files that existed previously 22:15:53 <shachaf> `? zombiechenie 22:15:53 <HackEgo> ZombieChenie is a noob 22:15:54 <vanila> oren_ cool 22:16:01 <shachaf> oerjan: right 22:16:02 <shachaf> ok 22:16:08 <shachaf> so that's why everything was messed up 22:16:13 <oerjan> or wait, you listed them explicitly. 22:16:13 <vanila> mov 22:16:44 <zzo38> Even in 6502 codes though you can use fall-through in the cases where you want to improve the speed, and therefore avoid branches in a few case like that too. However, in 6502 there isn't pipelining and branches aren't too slow anyways, but they still take up time like any other instruction does. 22:16:58 <oerjan> `` ls wisdom/zom* 22:16:59 <HackEgo> wisdom/zombiecheney \ wisdom/zombiechenie \ wisdom/zomgmodules \ wisdom/zomiecheney 22:17:03 <shachaf> oerjan: look i was in the middle of other things at the time 22:17:08 <vanila> interesting zzo38 22:17:13 <vanila> that's pretty cool 22:17:20 <vanila> i didn't know much about 6502 22:17:33 <zzo38> Well, I do know 6502 22:18:00 <oerjan> `rm wisdom/zombiechenie 22:18:02 <HackEgo> No output. 22:18:11 <oerjan> `? zomiecheney 22:18:11 <HackEgo> ZomieCheney is ZombieCheney 22:18:20 <oerjan> `rm wisdom/zomiecheney 22:18:21 <HackEgo> No output. 22:18:24 <zzo38> Learn 6502 programming 22:18:28 <oerjan> i think i'll leave one. 22:18:33 <oren_> `? tautology 22:18:35 <HackEgo> tautology? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:18:49 <shachaf> oerjan: thanks for cleaning it up tdh 22:18:53 <oren_> `learn A tautology is a tautology. 22:18:55 <HackEgo> Learned 'tautology': A tautology is a tautology. 22:19:16 <zzo38> Do you think there is any mistake in this program? http://sprunge.us/BQJV 22:19:24 <oren_> `learn A tautology is a tautology. Oren invented them. 22:19:26 <HackEgo> Learned 'tautology': A tautology is a tautology. Oren invented them. 22:19:52 <vanila> it's too hard to tell if there's an error just by looking 22:19:58 <shachaf> oren_: better with the nick orin 22:20:04 <shachaf> because then you can call them orinventions 22:20:39 <oren_> xaxaxaxaxaxa 22:21:16 <oerjan> such orenthusiasm 22:21:37 <shachaf> in sickness orin health 22:21:40 <oren_> see I can lagh in russian 22:21:41 <fowl> Oren is the snake pendant from the neverending story 22:21:52 <fowl> Is that intended 22:22:11 -!- supay has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:22:16 <oren_> Oren is my real name, pronounced as if spelled orin 22:22:45 -!- supay has joined. 22:22:50 <fowl> http://www.neverendingstory.com/images/auryn2.jpg 22:23:04 <fowl> I spelt it wrong my bad 22:26:27 <vanila> mwow 22:26:29 <vanila> keymaker edited 22:28:08 <vanila> https://esolangs.org/wiki/APLBAONWSJAS LOL 22:29:17 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:30:59 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:42:53 -!- gde33 has joined. 22:45:38 -!- gde33|2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:52:33 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:56:32 <Sgeo_> <3 Shadertoy 23:07:49 <oren_> my dad is reading a book by "emile zola" apparently not the zola I was thinking of 23:12:43 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:14:21 <oren_> space jam remix by P*Light https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdjlBRs4zyU 23:18:12 <oerjan> which zola were you thinking of 23:18:20 <oerjan> emile is pretty famous 23:21:06 <oren_> I was thinking of zola from GG 23:21:25 <oerjan> ah yes 23:21:44 <oerjan> which reminds me of a theory i keep wanting to tell int-e but he's always idle when i remember it 23:22:10 <oren_> cant you @tell him the theory 23:22:41 <oren_> @tell oerjan can't you @tell int-e the theory? 23:22:41 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 23:23:30 <oerjan> @tell int-e Obvious explanation for Gil's recent comments about the Other: it's actually Zola 23:23:30 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 23:24:47 <oerjan> @messages-clever 23:24:47 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list 23:24:57 <oerjan> @clever-messages 23:24:57 <lambdabot> Messages cleared. 23:25:33 <oren_> @mesages-loud 23:25:33 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages 23:26:20 <oren_> what are business cards for? 23:26:39 <oerjan> an interesting question 23:27:27 <oerjan> exchange greeting ritual 23:28:29 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 23:28:33 <oerjan> since i've never done business, i don't really know. 23:35:32 <vanila> getting given a business card is good. 23:38:49 <oren_> vanila: really? As a person who in a week is going to be expected to carry business cards, who should I give them to, when? 23:39:04 <vanila> when you like someone 23:40:21 <vanila> https://esolangs.org/wiki/ASCII_art- isn't that just brainfuck? 23:45:00 <oren_> thats the jok 23:45:26 <vanila> i don't get it 23:45:43 <vanila> oh 2015-06-26: 00:13:24 -!- variable has joined. 00:23:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 00:26:19 -!- mihow_ has joined. 00:29:29 -!- mihow has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:29:29 -!- mihow_ has changed nick to mihow. 00:45:51 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 00:47:29 -!- mihow has joined. 00:47:53 <vanila> You aren't totally sure if "EQUIP" is a verb copasetic with the abstract behavioral medium in which you dwell, but you give it a try anyway. 00:52:10 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 01:09:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:16:38 -!- hilquias has joined. 01:23:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kirbyfan64sos * New user account 01:33:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Unc]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43292 * Kirbyfan64sos * (+761) Created page with "'''unc''' is an estoric version of C with various keywords and characters swapped around to make programs difficult to write and read. For instance, this is a [[Hello, world!]..." 01:34:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43293&oldid=43243 * Kirbyfan64sos * (+10) /* U */ 01:49:10 <tswett> oren_: business cards tell people what you do and how to contact you. 02:09:52 -!- vanila has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:17:12 -!- Froox has joined. 02:19:50 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:36:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:41:19 <shachaf> `wisdom 02:41:20 <HackEgo> webcarting/webcarting is not dissimilar to Mario Kart, but uses real, remote-controlled go-karts. Participants describe it as "the outlandish spectacle of real go-karting combined with the thrill and immersion of Mario Kart". 02:47:39 <oren_> tswett: I know that, but when should I offer one? 02:50:01 <zzo38> Is there such a thing as a FireWire->RF converter? 02:51:11 <oren_> uh... what sort of signal is being converted? 02:51:25 <zzo38> FireWire video signal 02:51:33 <zzo38> With IEEE-1394 02:51:51 <zzo38> And to convert into analog RF TV cable signal 02:53:26 <oren_> http://www.amazon.com/Canopus-ADVC-110-adapter-FireWire/dp/B001LOO4O2 02:56:14 <zzo38> Also I should want to output any VHF TV channel 2-13, so that a VCR can be programmed to record from any channel 03:03:29 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 03:12:58 <pikhq> zzo38: A D-VHS recorder would suffice. 03:41:08 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 03:45:49 <tswett> oren_: whenever you want someone to be able to contact you, I guess? 03:46:31 <tswett> I don't think it could be seen as inappropriate to offer a business card. If they're not interested, they can just discard it later. 03:47:12 <zzo38> Or, they should tell you they don't want it, if they don't want it, and then you can save it to give to someone else instead possibly 03:47:49 <tswett> That would be kind of ungracious, though. 03:51:05 <tswett> I wouldn't refuse a business card unless I were completely sure that the other person wouldn't be upset or offended at all. 03:52:05 <zzo38> I wouldn't care; I would just refuse it if I didn't need it (unless they have far more than they need anyways). But if I gave someone business card I would try to ensure that they can give it back if they don't need it. OK 03:54:47 <zzo38> Originally my plan was to make RULECARD out of S-expressions, but now my idea is to make it out of RDF instead. I intended to have that the extensions in the program (the program consists of a set of extensions) are commutative and idempotent, and that any extension can be further extended, and namespaces and private/public and a few other things. RDF already does this automatically though, therefore I can use RDF instead. 04:01:30 <tswett> I think I'd say that refusing a business card is tantamount to outright stating you're not actually interested in contacting the person. 04:01:37 <tswett> Which I guess may or may not be a bad thing. 04:02:40 -!- variable has joined. 04:03:04 <zzo38> tswett: Yes, it may or may not be a bad thing; it can depend on many thing. Or maybe, you just don't contact them for business, and you already know their home telephone number (because they told you before). There can be more than one way. 04:03:16 <tswett> Right. 04:17:00 <oren_> I see... that helps. 04:20:09 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:34:39 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:40:36 <tswett> Man. So I've been thinking about how to create the Ultimate Computer Language. 04:41:04 <zzo38> Do you know any idea how to do? 04:41:33 <tswett> What I've come up with so far is a language that lets you define "sketches" (which are more or less varieties of algebraic structures) and morphisms between them (essentially functors). 04:42:16 <tswett> This already includes all the basic non-recursive parts of Haskell. 04:42:59 <zzo38> I think you should need macros as well; programming language generally better by having macros, in my opinion . 04:43:28 <tswett> I'm hoping to completely obviate the need for macros. 04:43:33 <zzo38> Although what you have seem good, but you should make example so that I can understand them more better 04:43:50 <tswett> I haven't fully figured it out myself. 04:45:00 <zzo38> Then you must learn. 04:46:01 <tswett> A lot of stuff can be seen as morphisms between sketches. There's a sketch which just means "a type", so defining a type is the same as defining a morphism from the empty sketch to the "a type" sketch. 04:48:14 <tswett> It looks like defining a polymorphic function is essentially defining a sketch morphism which has certain properties. 04:49:01 <tswett> Sketches attempt to define categories, but sketches seem to have some pretty interesting categorical structure themselves. 04:50:34 <tswett> Whelp, I had better go to bed. I need to get up early tomorrow morning and I'm already up late. 04:50:36 <tswett> Night, everyone. 05:12:59 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 05:28:45 -!- quietello has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:29:39 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:31:32 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 06:36:52 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:05:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:23:50 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 08:01:37 -!- aloril_ has joined. 08:02:05 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:15:07 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:24:06 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:07:22 -!- husanu1 has joined. 09:15:59 -!- husanu1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:21:03 -!- husanu3 has joined. 09:26:26 -!- husanu3 has quit (Killed (marienz (Drones are not welcome on freenode.))). 10:29:02 -!- boily has joined. 10:37:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:58:33 <boily> hellørjan. the drought continues? 10:59:04 <oerjan> a very wet drought 10:59:24 <oerjan> @metar ENVA 10:59:25 <lambdabot> ENVA 261050Z 28015KT 9999 SCT013 BKN024 11/08 Q1017 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 29016KT 11:00:06 <boily> I was refering to the fungotlack hth 11:00:07 <oerjan> actually by the weather forecast it's supposed to be dry now, but no one seems to have told the pavement. 11:00:10 <oerjan> oh. 11:00:33 <boily> btw, this looks like reasonable Norweather. 11:00:38 <oerjan> hard to fix with fizzie AWOL 11:00:57 <boily> @metar CYUL 11:00:57 <lambdabot> CYUL 261000Z 01005KT 30SM FEW100 FEW240 13/09 A3003 RMK AC1CI1 SLP170 11:02:22 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:02:40 <oerjan> boily: for april, maybe. 11:03:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:03:17 <boily> maybe it's still April over at your place. who knows, timezones are complicated. 11:03:26 <oerjan> there were 3-4 hot days last week, then it went back down again. 11:04:17 <oerjan> before that, the newspaper wrote articles about "we've had only one registered june colder than this, and that was in the 1920s" 11:06:16 <oerjan> (of course records start some time in the 1800s) 11:17:17 <boily> the lowest we've hit here was 7,2 °C in 1970, highest 33,4 °C in 2003. 11:17:29 <boily> (records from 1942-2015) 11:18:22 <oerjan> oh and i think the record was average daily maximum 11:18:46 <oerjan> not actual point time extremes 11:19:16 <boily> Ō_Ō... 11:19:54 <boily> I mean, this winter we broke all kinds of records (damn you February and March!), but that happening in June... 11:20:24 <oerjan> oh it was of course record _for_ june 11:20:32 <oerjan> sheesh 11:21:47 <oerjan> now last year's january, _that_ was a freaky month. 11:22:01 <oerjan> when you get wildfires spreading, in january, in norway... 11:22:46 <oerjan> (drought, not temperature. they were actually _sub-zero_ wildfires.) 11:23:10 <boily> LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU AIN'T NO SUCH THING AS SUB-ZERO WILDFIRES LA LA LA 11:23:45 <oerjan> seriously, the firefighters had trouble with the water freezing. 11:24:31 <oerjan> boily: celsius not fahrenheit hth 11:25:12 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:26:27 <oerjan> i'm quite sure i told you all about it at the time. 11:26:52 <boily> I may have had the same reflex at that moment hth 11:26:58 <oerjan> (well maybe not about the water freezing.) 11:27:43 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 11:28:00 <boily> meanwhile, I'm going to take a shower. a hot shower, with unmistakeably hot water. the liquid kind that warms you. waaaaaaaaarm. 11:28:08 <oerjan> mmm 11:28:14 * oerjan will do so later. 11:28:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DUPLICATE CHICKEN). 11:45:24 <mroman_> fnord 11:48:24 <APic\splat> Gesundheit. 11:51:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:54:19 <mroman_> timezones are complicated. 13:11:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:25:15 -!- variable has joined. 14:20:46 <mroman_> I need to write a bot to search for esolangs that don't involve numbers 14:21:07 <mroman_> then it will help me to create "numeric $language" :) 14:22:00 <mroman_> Numeric Whitespace. Replace \s with 0, \t with 1 and linefeeds with 2 14:22:27 <mroman_> Hppavilion1 sounds a lot like this one virus 14:22:56 <oerjan> it's an actual laptop brand hth 14:23:17 <mroman_> Human papillomavirus 14:29:21 <mroman_> Has anybody tried nuking the sun yet? 14:31:14 <mroman_> there's a quora question about that o_O 14:31:20 <mroman_> but all the answers are just "nope sun is too huge" 14:31:49 <mroman_> maybe it'll trigger a CME of doom or something 14:31:55 <mroman_> without really destroying the sun 14:32:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Argh!). 14:32:26 <mroman_> @tell oerjan You can't escape my nukes. 14:32:26 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 14:32:34 <mroman_> fungot can 14:33:00 <mroman_> `? can 14:33:16 <HackEgo> can? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:34:06 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 14:38:12 <mroman_> `learn Can cans can cans? 14:38:14 <HackEgo> Learned 'can': Can cans can cans? 14:39:44 <Jafet> Some Czechs check cheque checksums. 14:40:01 -!- gamemanj has joined. 14:40:05 <mroman_> It's gonna be a tough weekend 14:40:15 <mroman_> I might develop some esolang as a distraction 14:40:55 <gamemanj> Fungot is STILL gone? I thought I saw... hmm... 14:41:23 <mroman_> Nope, still hold prisoner 14:41:38 <gamemanj> Prisoner? 14:42:06 <mroman_> fizzie is evil. 14:42:11 <mroman_> he takes prisoners 14:42:14 <mroman_> or she 14:42:15 <mroman_> or it 14:42:16 <mroman_> I don't know 14:44:12 <gamemanj> For 4-or-so (When did fnord begin? I don't keep track of time.) MONTHS, or was there a bit of time in the middle? 14:45:01 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:45:08 <mroman_> what? 14:46:06 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:46:45 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:46:54 * gamemanj doesn't know when this started, but Fungot was trapped in a house for a few weeks a long time ago - is that still the case? 14:47:18 <mroman_> No, this time it's different. 14:47:21 <mroman_> More politics involved. 14:47:31 <gamemanj> Politics? 14:48:00 -!- Melvar has joined. 14:50:09 <mroman_> Yeah, politics. 14:50:21 <mroman_> You know... people that get elected or elect themselves 14:50:29 <mroman_> they talk, they have a lot of differences 14:50:40 <mroman_> everyone pretends to like each other but secretely they all hate each other 14:50:44 <gamemanj> That needs more context to make sense... 14:51:13 <gamemanj> IK what politics is - how does it apply? 14:51:19 <mroman_> estonia doesn't want to admit they hate foreigners 14:51:22 <mroman_> but 14:51:26 <mroman_> whathever 14:52:07 <mroman_> gamemanj: You know that I'm crazy and just make this stuff up right? 14:52:44 <gamemanj> No... 14:52:54 <mroman_> well now you know. 14:52:54 <Jafet> We'd better set mroman to use something other than europarl. 14:53:01 <mroman_> Oh oh! 14:53:08 <mroman_> Do you want me to use "ghangsta"? 14:53:17 <gamemanj> The Estonia bit I figured was a joke, but... 14:53:18 <mroman_> Jafet: Please select a style 14:53:22 <mroman_> (using \style <style>) 14:53:40 <Jafet> Perhaps "irc" is the best. 14:53:40 <oren_> my dad was in estonia once... they mainly hate russians 14:54:10 <mroman_> There's a fnord in estonia. Although long time not seen much. Russia is 14:54:22 <oren_> but that'a common for post-soviet colonies 14:54:50 <mroman_> I used emacs once. Can it fnord files? 14:55:52 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:56:32 <gamemanj> int-e... you could delay the madness for them... you know how... towel poetry magrathea 14:57:01 <mroman_> Scheme is really crispy. (fnord (cnat (cnat (fnord)). 14:57:02 -!- vanila has joined. 14:57:03 <vanila> hi 14:57:10 <mroman_> Welcome. 14:58:32 <mroman_> vanila: Current selected style is "irc". 15:07:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Rdococ]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43294&oldid=43268 * Rdococ * (+153) /* PFIL */ 15:12:17 <int-e> You mean I could reactivate my fungot instance? 15:12:55 <gamemanj> Yep! 15:13:07 <int-e> I don't have the right ssh credentials right now. 15:13:39 <int-e> maybe later 15:13:40 <mroman_> Some sequences require std::vector. Notably the fact that fnord. 15:18:18 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:23:40 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 15:24:18 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:24:42 -!- Melvar has joined. 15:26:33 <vanila> how about no bots? 15:26:39 <vanila> in #esoteric 15:27:01 <gamemanj> None? At all? 15:27:28 <vanila> except tunes bot 15:30:09 -!- variable has joined. 15:30:56 -!- hilquias has joined. 15:32:51 <shachaf> `wisdom 15:32:52 <HackEgo> goat/Goats are drunk 24/7, ask Solain for details. 15:40:12 <oren_> `wisdom 15:40:13 <HackEgo> szoup/A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit. 15:40:18 <oren_> `wisdom 15:40:19 <HackEgo> indexed monad/Indexed monads are just monads on an indexed category. \ Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors. 15:40:51 <oren_> `wisdom 15:40:52 <HackEgo> structural subtyping/Not to be confused with substructural typing. 15:41:22 <vanila> this channel is just bot spam 15:41:38 <vanila> it sucks 15:41:56 <oren_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XShdmeKmNxw 15:42:54 <oren_> don't you have any love for the robots? 15:43:05 -!- password2 has joined. 15:45:04 <gamemanj> Which esoteric languages have network support...? 15:46:13 <oren_> Not many 15:46:34 <oren_> However most could easily be extened to support it 15:48:33 <oren_> L33t apparently does 15:51:25 -!- vanila has left ("Leaving"). 15:55:19 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 15:56:05 <hppavilion1> Hi 15:57:15 <Jafet> A better question might be: which esolangs are inherently networked 15:58:16 <hppavilion1> Inherently networked? 15:58:18 <hppavilion1> Huh 15:58:19 <hppavilion1> ? 15:58:56 <hppavilion1> A BETTER question might be: Brainfuck with networking. How do we do it and make it useful? 15:59:27 <oren_> `cat emoticons/gaaan 15:59:28 <HackEgo> ​ｶﾞ~(ﾟﾛﾟ;)~ﾝ 16:01:27 <hppavilion1> `cat emoticons/* 16:01:27 <HackEgo> cat: emoticons/*: No such file or directory 16:01:33 <hppavilion1> Sadface 16:01:44 <hppavilion1> `` ls emoticons 16:01:44 <HackEgo> drowning \ flipbird \ gaaan \ gaan \ kyaa \ shrug \ swatter \ useless 16:05:07 <hppavilion1> t(-_-t) 16:05:20 <MDude> An esoteric language where non-trivial programs require messages to get bounced between multiple machines? 16:05:44 <hppavilion1> OOoooh... 16:06:07 <oren_> hppavilion1: I think you mean 凸 16:06:14 <FireFly> MDude: sorry, TIS-100 was released a month ago 16:06:28 <hppavilion1> I just see a block- Oooooooooh 16:06:35 <hppavilion1> I prefer t(-_-t) 16:06:38 <hppavilion1> It looks bettter 16:06:47 <MDude> What's TIS-100? 16:07:14 <FireFly> A game slash assembly-ish programming language that requires data to get bounced between multiple machines for nontrivial programs 16:07:37 <oren_> Hmm... scripts differ in how much a character can differ between fonts 16:08:11 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 16:08:18 <hppavilion1> Hi variable! 16:08:24 <hppavilion1> Well, constant! 16:08:36 <constant> hppavilion1: hi! 16:08:42 <hppavilion1> How's it going 16:08:43 <hppavilion1> ? 16:08:53 * constant focussing on some coding 16:08:54 <FireFly> (each node can hold up to two numbers, although only one is accessible at a time) 16:08:56 * hppavilion1 awkwardly makes smalltalk (No Pun Intended) 16:10:05 <hppavilion1> I have to go 16:10:10 <hppavilion1> I'll be back in a bit 16:14:26 <MDude> But what is the source of the song in http://www.4chan.org/flash?file=dsfargeg.swf&title=dsfargeg ? 16:14:31 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:14:35 <MDude> Dangit I"m int he wrong freaking channel 16:15:18 <MDude> This is what happens when I go to seven channels on three servers, and at least two discuss programming-related things sometimes. 16:15:26 <MDude> Usually more. 16:19:13 <int-e> To add insult to the injury, I also deleted that fungot/funge experiment. So I probably won't revive it. 16:20:30 <int-e> Oh, not quite. I moved lambdabot to a different host in the meantime... the files are still around. 16:24:12 -!- fnordbot has joined. 16:24:19 <int-e> ^style 16:24:20 <fnordbot> Available: irc* 16:24:46 <int-e> Ok, that was easier than I thought. 16:24:50 <int-e> fnordbot: explain! 16:24:51 <fnordbot> int-e: on a piece. within a few short vog years every last vogon had migrated to the megabrantis cluster, the political economy. deep in the heart of a dark screen, just under five years, but you will when i was a kid you just saved a lot. " so," said ford, " you reckon, what's the problem? a sudden silence afterwards." you can tell. he sat at it for a while. but he didn't turn yet," a voice said " i seem to be having tremendou 16:25:24 <gamemanj> Yay! Fnord is back! 16:25:32 <oren_> holy crap, the USSC has gone for it 16:29:21 <oren_> I did not expect that 16:29:49 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 16:29:51 <hppavilion1> IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII'm back 16:31:23 <oren_> good afternoooooon 16:34:29 <hppavilion1> IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII'm leaving 16:34:36 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Client Quit). 16:34:39 <oren_> byyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyw 16:45:19 <oren_> Hmm... So we have variable typing, like Java or C, and value typing, like python or haskell. is there any other options? 16:46:22 <gamemanj> oren_: Line number typing, where the type changes based on line number? 16:46:35 <oren_> the type of what? 16:47:01 <gamemanj> Values. 16:47:17 <oren_> Then that would be valeu typing with a weird syntax, right? 16:48:36 <oren_> I suppose you have operator typing, like Forth 16:49:04 <oren_> (values are just bits. the operator determines what those bits are interpreted as) 16:49:07 <gamemanj> "Then that would be valeu typing with a weird syntax, right?" : Yes. 16:49:37 <gamemanj> But where's the fun in saying that? 16:51:24 <oren_> OpenGL is partially variable typed and partially operator tpyed 16:52:53 <oren_> (you give it a set of numbers, and whether those numbers are in groups of 9 representing triangles or 6 representing lines, or whatever, is determined separately) 16:54:14 <oren_> I suppose there is also "monotyping" where only one type is supported directly. 16:54:47 <oren_> like BF or sed 16:59:28 -!- nys has joined. 17:04:39 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:08:20 -!- mihow has joined. 17:23:15 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: .). 17:26:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Typing]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43295 * Orenwatson * (+1022) taxonomy of languages by type system... probably doesn't cover all bases yet. 17:28:06 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:28:07 <oren_> Am I missing anything? 17:28:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Hppavilion1]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43296 * Hppavilion1 * (+83) /* I don't want my talk button to be a red link */ new section 17:28:31 -!- Melvar has joined. 17:29:30 -!- quietello has joined. 17:31:55 -!- hppavlion1 has joined. 17:32:07 <hppavlion1> Hi 17:32:28 <oren_> hi 17:34:42 <oren_> are there any type systems that aren't in one of those groups? 17:39:20 <izabera> what about the "everything is a string" type? 17:39:35 <hppavlion1> How about the mandatorily dynamic type? 17:40:01 <hppavlion1> Every time you reassign a variable, the new value has to be a different type from its current value 17:41:00 <b_jonas> hppavlion1: only its current value, or all the previous values? do languages with only mutable-once variables count? 17:41:13 <hppavlion1> Only current value 17:41:26 <b_jonas> oh that's easy enough, just zero the value temporarily 17:41:30 <b_jonas> before any assignment 17:41:40 <hppavlion1> OR all previous values 17:41:41 <hppavlion1> I know 17:41:48 <hppavlion1> Depending on the language 17:41:49 <hppavlion1> I know 17:42:00 <hppavlion1> But it's still a different type system 17:42:14 <hppavlion1> Also, the VERY weak type system 17:42:35 <hppavlion1> 2+'2'=='4' 17:42:53 <hppavlion1> (The above statement evaluates to true) 17:42:56 <Jafet> The PHP stringly-typed system 17:43:23 <hppavlion1> ALSO 17:43:28 <hppavlion1> The xkcd type system 17:43:29 <hppavlion1> http://xkcd.com/1537/ 17:47:32 <hppavlion1> Any other type systems? 17:48:00 <hppavlion1> How about the overly-static type system? 17:48:11 <hppavlion1> Inverse of mandatorily dynamic 17:48:18 <hppavlion1> Variables can't change type 17:48:27 <hppavlion1> And they all have to be the same type 17:49:40 <hppavlion1> Then there's a family of of kinda-sora-dynamic types 17:49:53 <hppavlion1> The first one makes it so variabels can change type, but only in a family 17:50:24 <hppavlion1> (int can become short or long, but not char, char can become string. Groups are arbitrary, not memory based) 17:50:29 <hppavlion1> The other is rotary 17:50:33 <hppavlion1> Variables can change tyep 17:50:43 <hppavlion1> But they can only change to the next type in a chain 17:50:59 <hppavlion1> The chain loops back to the beginning 17:52:55 <hppavlion1> b_jonas? Your thoughts? 18:24:41 <hppavlion1> Bai all 18:24:52 -!- hppavlion1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:31:58 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 18:35:21 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:47:14 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 18:56:09 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:56:10 <HackEgo> qdbformat/qdbformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two 18:57:50 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:57:52 <HackEgo> metasepia/metasepia knows the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks. 18:58:10 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:58:11 <HackEgo> monoids/Monoids are the easy version of categories. 18:58:16 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:58:17 <HackEgo> ​⌨/You are probably using one right now! 18:58:24 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:58:25 <HackEgo> qzyzzalroum/You should start the crossword over. 18:58:36 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:58:37 <HackEgo> arothmorphise/arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant... oh bugger. This should go in the `misspellings of antrhrop... atnhro...' entry. 18:58:46 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:58:48 <int-e> `` sed -i s/knows/knew/ wisdom/metasepia 18:58:49 <HackEgo> code/[11,11,11,15,15,23,12],[5,5,5,3,53,45,16,26,00,20,15,16,22,25,45,91,32,11,15,27,06,01,11,01,47,22,30,13,43,21,11,13,29,61,65,17,19,12,28,17,11,01,23,20,16,20,81,18,32,25,58,22.,1985,10.301350435,1555466973690094680980000956080767,13720946704494913791885940266665466978579582015128512190078... 18:58:50 <HackEgo> No output. 18:59:38 <int-e> @duck 18:59:38 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: docs dice 18:59:44 <shachaf> `wisdom 18:59:44 <HackEgo> fternoon/Fternoon is the time of day when the Danes usually eat their fternooners. 18:59:46 <int-e> @dice 100d100 18:59:46 <lambdabot> int-e: 5028 18:59:54 <shachaf> 100d100 18:59:54 <lambdabot> shachaf: 5412 19:01:12 <int-e> hmm, does that contextual dice come up often? 19:04:00 <shachaf> I can't remember ever seeing it come up accidentally. 19:04:06 <shachaf> Though it must occasionally. 19:04:34 <shachaf> But it doesn't trigger in the middle 100d100 of a sentence. 19:04:45 <shachaf> 1 + 3 + 5d4 19:04:45 <lambdabot> shachaf: 1 + 3 + 13 => 17 19:04:47 <int-e> ok, sounds harmless enough then :) 19:04:55 <int-e> 1+2+3d1 19:04:55 <lambdabot> int-e: 1 + 2 + (1+1+1) => 6 19:04:58 <int-e> 1+2+3 19:05:13 <shachaf> Yes, the ol' d1 lambdabot calculator trick. 19:05:14 <int-e> and it's clever enough to require at least one die throw 19:05:21 <Jafet> 999999999d2 19:05:22 <lambdabot> Jafet: 1499981740 19:05:42 <Jafet> 999999999999d2 19:05:42 <lambdabot> Jafet: 1500000212521 19:05:59 <int-e> Jafet: it's using a normal distribution for that 19:06:09 <int-e> (rounding, obviously) 19:06:11 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:06:11 <HackEgo> character/A character is just a homomorphism to the group of complex numbers of modulus 1. 19:06:39 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:06:40 <HackEgo> bc/bc ௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵ 19:06:44 <int-e> `? out of character 19:06:44 <HackEgo> out of character? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:06:45 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/bc 19:06:47 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull guestbot 19:06:53 <shachaf> `` hg log wisdom/bc | grep summary: 19:06:55 <HackEgo> summary: <Bike> revert \ summary: <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ summary: <guestbot> learn bc \xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\xb5\xe0\xaf\x 19:07:06 <shachaf> What's this guestbot thing? 19:07:08 <shachaf> `rm wisdom/bc 19:07:10 <HackEgo> No output. 19:07:14 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:07:16 <HackEgo> bowser/A Bowser is a Koopa client for convenient administration of mooks in Mushroom Kingdom. 19:08:28 <zzo38> I don't know? 19:09:15 <int-e> `` learn A trick learnt is a trick half forgotten. 19:09:17 <HackEgo> Learned 'a': A 19:09:21 <int-e> sigh. 19:09:27 <int-e> `revert 19:09:35 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 19:10:06 <int-e> `? a 19:10:06 <HackEgo> A is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters. 19:10:11 <int-e> `learn A trick learnt is a trick half forgotten. 19:10:13 <HackEgo> Learned 'trick': A trick learnt is a trick half forgotten. 19:11:05 <int-e> `? bots 19:11:05 <HackEgo> bots? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:11:09 <int-e> `? bot 19:11:10 <HackEgo> bot? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:12:30 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk). 19:12:40 <int-e> `? lambdabot 19:12:40 <HackEgo> lambdabot is a fully functional bot. just don't ask about @src. 19:12:45 <int-e> `? fungot 19:12:46 <HackEgo> fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. 19:13:04 <int-e> fnordbot: you're just a poor substitute. 19:13:05 <fnordbot> int-e: of no significance of anything he did. " you're really not going to be outcooled. panic sprouted again, desperate that any man who can," ford hissed at him to stop his hands. the marketing division of the sirius cybernetics corporation as " a bunch of mindless tedium... " you think the problem, to be quite honest with you, is the story to him to ask a question which had been bothering him. in a few seconds," he continued 19:17:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Typing]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43297&oldid=43295 * Zzo38 * (+37) 19:18:09 <int-e> hmm, ais523 has not returned after being kicked by oerjan... 19:20:38 <zzo38> We are having to make Unusenet now, in case you don't have Usenet then you can use Unusenet by NNTP 19:28:31 -!- Atheneti has joined. 19:29:52 -!- Atheneti has quit (Client Quit). 19:31:11 <oren_> @seen ais523 19:31:11 <lambdabot> AIS523 19:31:28 <oren_> @help 19:31:28 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands 19:34:03 <oren_> @where ais523 19:34:03 <lambdabot> I know nothing about ais523. 19:36:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * EmptyJL * New user account 19:37:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:39:03 <shachaf> zzo38: If I don't have Usenet, why would I have Unusenet? 19:39:52 <oren_> seen doesn't work anymore? 19:40:34 <Jafet> @seen oren 19:40:35 <lambdabot> 0rEN 19:41:12 <oren_> @seen oren 19:41:12 <lambdabot> OReN 19:41:27 <zzo38> In case you can't use Usenet (many service providers no longer support it I have heard, and even if they do some groups may be missing), so we can make up Unusenet instead. 19:41:41 <oren_> @seen oren_ 19:41:42 <lambdabot> OREn_ 19:42:07 <oren_> it should say "oren_ is in #esoteric, Oren last spoke at something something" 19:43:17 <shachaf> who's to say what it should or shouldn't do? 19:43:21 <shachaf> `wisdom 19:43:22 <HackEgo> category/Categories are just a special case of bicategories. 19:46:12 <zzo38> Why did Atheneti join this channel just to send me a private message containing a link to a gopher server on a non-standard port number that contained instruction to tell a user on another IRC network something? 19:48:22 <oren_> that's weird 19:49:33 <oren_> As of today, I have been running the same irssi process for 25 days 19:50:58 <oren_> seems that irssi has stable code 19:52:09 <shachaf> zzo38: Which user on what network? 19:54:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Noisett]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43298 * EmptyJL * (+2832) Created page with " Noisett is a minimalistic multi-agent middleware, where agents are tiny pattern-triggered peers. These agents are named "Nuts". When they receive a message, they can send ot..." 19:55:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:58:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43299&oldid=43293 * EmptyJL * (+14) 20:00:02 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:00:14 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:02:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Noisett]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43300&oldid=43298 * EmptyJL * (+24) 20:03:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Number-rock]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43301 * Zzo38 * (+2970) Created page with "[[Category:Languages]][[Category:2015]][[Category:Unimplemented]] [[Number-rock]] is the programming language where the program consist of a series of definitions. It is not ..." 20:04:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Noisett]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43302&oldid=43300 * EmptyJL * (+25) 20:04:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Noisett]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43303&oldid=43302 * EmptyJL * (+2) 20:06:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Number-rock]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43304&oldid=43301 * Zzo38 * (+45) 20:07:30 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:07:31 <HackEgo> XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR/Who told you this? 20:07:33 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:07:34 <HackEgo> 1/The 1 is just for disambiguation. 20:07:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Zzo38/cologneblue.css]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43305 * Zzo38 * (+416) Created page with ".postedit, #sitesub, #titlelinks, #sitetitle, #siteNotice, #footer-navigation, .tagline, #mw-navigation, .mw-editTools, #editpage-copywarn { display: none; } .tocnumber, .mw-h..." 20:08:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Zzo38/cologneblue.js]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43306 * Zzo38 * (+223) Created page with "$(mw.util.addPortletLink('p-personal','#',undefined,undefined,undefined,'g')).click(function(e){ var x; e.preventDefault(); x=prompt("Goto?",mw.config.get('wgPageName'))..." 20:14:02 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:14:02 <HackEgo> tanebvention/Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex. 20:14:10 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:14:11 <HackEgo> ​øl/Øl, øl og mere øl. 20:15:26 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:15:27 <HackEgo> phở/Phở là một món ăn truyền thống của Việt Nam, cũng có thể xem là một trong những món ăn đặc trưng nhất cho ẩm thực Việt Nam. 20:17:11 -!- Melvar has joined. 20:17:46 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:17:47 <HackEgo> unlambda/``ci`r`.!`.l`.a`.i`.v`.i`.r`.t`. `.t`.s`.e`.'`.c`. `.,`.a`.d`.b`.m`.a`.l`.n`.U`ci 20:17:58 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:17:59 <HackEgo> forth/Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication. 20:18:21 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:18:22 <HackEgo> ascii/ascii is the plural of ascius 20:18:30 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:18:31 <HackEgo> endofunctor/Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories. 20:18:35 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:18:36 <HackEgo> logs/I think you might mean !logs 20:18:51 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:18:52 <HackEgo> torus/Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented them. 20:19:26 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:19:27 <HackEgo> right/Right is not two wrongs but three lefts. 20:19:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Noisett]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43307&oldid=43303 * 90.5.212.59 * (+102) 20:20:44 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:20:46 <HackEgo> pietbot/Pietbot is the only thing that can defeat fungot. 20:20:53 <shachaf> oh no 20:20:54 <int-e> `` sed -i s/them/it/ wisdom/torus 20:20:56 <HackEgo> No output. 20:21:02 <shachaf> we've found the culprit 20:22:58 <int-e> `? culprit 20:22:58 <HackEgo> ​`culprits` is a program that lists the lists the nicks responsible for a wisdom entry. Usage: `culprits wisdom/ENTRY 20:23:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Noisett]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43308&oldid=43307 * EmptyJL * (+44) 20:27:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Noisett]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43309&oldid=43308 * 90.5.212.59 * (+0) 20:34:14 <shachaf> don't edit it! 20:34:56 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/culprits 20:34:57 <HackEgo> No output. 20:34:58 <shachaf> oops 20:35:00 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/culprit 20:35:01 <HackEgo> badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom 20:35:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Owk]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43310 * Phase * (+3599) Add Owk language 20:40:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Owk]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43311&oldid=43310 * Phase * (-149) Fix code blocks 20:44:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Phase]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43312 * Phase * (+212) My very own page 20:45:36 -!- GeekDude has joined. 20:46:02 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:46:03 <HackEgo> thausiblee/A thausiblee is the recipient of a thausible action. 20:46:11 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:46:11 <HackEgo> herbalist/A herbalist is a list of herbas. 20:46:15 <shachaf> `wisdom 20:46:16 <HackEgo> forth/Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication. 20:46:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Phase * moved [[Phase]] to [[User:Phase]]: Forgot the "User:" 20:47:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Owk]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43315&oldid=43311 * Phase * (+5) 20:47:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cod]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43316&oldid=43291 * Phase * (+5) 20:51:33 <b_jonas> ais523: I realized something about M:tG. In the ravnica block, the cards costing hybrid mana are completely uniform: every guild has exactly one common, it costs one hybrid mana plus possibly some colorless; one uncommon hybrid card which is the guildmage; and one rare hybrid. Was this obvious to everyone other than me? 20:52:18 <ais523> b_jonas: it's called "cycles" 20:52:30 <ais523> the M:tG designers put them in a lot because people like seeing them 20:54:00 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, sure, but I didn't realize this particular cycle of commons 20:54:18 <b_jonas> even though I knew three or four cards of them, and knew about the guildmages and a few other guild cycles 20:54:46 <b_jonas> probably it's because I sometimes don't realize what cards are from ravnica rather than shadowmoor 20:55:57 <b_jonas> and sure, there are other cycles that took a long time for me to realize 20:56:03 <b_jonas> not in ravnica 20:58:17 <b_jonas> also, for a very long time I didn't know about Gaze of the Gorgon, despite that for a long time I was thinking of building a deck that would need that card and was trying to look for such cards 20:58:33 <b_jonas> and by the time I realized that Gaze of the Gorgon exists, shadowmoor was already out with a lot of hybrids 21:04:57 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 21:05:38 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:14:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lamb]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43317 * Phase * (+875) Added the Lamb language 21:17:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43318&oldid=43299 * Phase * (+10) /* C */ Added Cod language 21:18:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43319&oldid=43318 * Phase * (+11) /* L */ Added Lamb language 21:19:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43320&oldid=43319 * Phase * (+10) /* O */ Added Owk language 21:21:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43321&oldid=43279 * Phase * (+41) Add link the GitHub page 21:27:00 -!- keren has joined. 21:27:02 -!- variable has joined. 21:27:10 <keren> hola 21:28:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Developers]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43322&oldid=43128 * Phase * (+14711) Copy Uncyclopedia article, as it may be deleted 21:29:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Noit o' mnain worb]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43323&oldid=34952 * 86.130.248.38 * (+38) /* Etymology */ explain what the hidden message is 21:29:51 <keren> hola 21:30:32 -!- keren has left. 21:37:19 <ais523> … 21:38:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:41:25 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 21:43:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:47:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Phase]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43324&oldid=43313 * Phase * (+11) Link to Lamb 22:07:19 <oerjan> <oren_> holy crap, the USSC has gone for it <-- oh no. does that mean we're doomed? if only i knew wtf you're referring to twh 22:08:22 <coppro> oerjan: same-sex marriage 22:09:55 <oerjan> the united states sentencing commission has to meddle in everything. 22:09:59 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 22:10:05 -!- boily has joined. 22:10:07 <boily> @metar ENVA 22:10:07 <lambdabot> ENVA 262150Z 32006KT 9999 BKN026 09/04 Q1016 RMK WIND 670FT 33007KT 22:10:11 <boily> @metar CYUL 22:10:11 <lambdabot> CYUL 262200Z 31008KT 30SM FEW060 FEW090 FEW240 24/08 A3005 RMK SC1AC1CI2 SC TR AC TR SLP177 DENSITY ALT 1000FT 22:10:31 * oerjan suddenly senses a weird surplus of canadians. 22:11:01 <oerjan> bollyho 22:12:46 <boily> weird surplus? I don't think we're too many Canadians in this chännel. 22:12:50 <olsner> canadians? I thought this was full of finns 22:12:57 <boily> allœ̂rjan! 22:13:21 <boily> well, our finns aren't doing too well lately... 22:13:31 * boily pokes through fizzie's ghostly aura 22:13:39 <olsner> no fungot either 22:13:54 <oerjan> olsner: it was just the weirdness of discussing us news with only canadians involved 22:14:40 <int-e> ^rreree test 22:14:56 <shachaf> `wisdom 22:15:08 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm not canadian yet hth 22:15:12 <zzo38> I am also Canadian 22:15:15 <HackEgo> loop/loop: see loop 22:15:22 <olsner> I am also not canadian 22:15:57 <coppro> to fix a canadian surplus, call them americans 22:15:57 <int-e> @metar LOWI 22:15:57 <lambdabot> LOWI 262150Z AUTO VRB01KT 9999 OVC120 18/12 Q1021 22:16:00 <oerjan> shachaf: you also weren't speaking 22:17:43 <boily> coppro: bleh! 22:19:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Noisett]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43325&oldid=43309 * EmptyJL * (+48) 22:20:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Noisett]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43326&oldid=43325 * EmptyJL * (+4) 22:25:31 <zzo38> This is the code of Famizork so far http://sprunge.us/dOfH it doesn't quite work I wonder if you can know the mistake? I found a few mistakes and fixed it but possibly if many people look, more mistake can be figure out 22:40:31 -!- mihow has joined. 22:42:33 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 22:46:34 -!- mihow has joined. 22:47:57 <shachaf> `wisdom 22:48:01 <HackEgo> off by two/An off by two error is what happens when you expect an off by one error but compensate in the wrong direction. 22:48:35 <boily> `wisdom 22:48:36 <HackEgo> tdt/That doesn't tdt. 22:49:11 <boily> `culprits wisdom/tdt 22:49:14 <HackEgo> oerjan 22:49:27 <boily> nst. 22:50:04 <int-e> no such tst? 22:50:13 <int-e> oh, got it. 22:50:29 <int-e> ...surprisingly... 22:50:38 <boily> ^^ 22:54:52 <quintopia> helloily 22:56:00 <ais523> hmm, pretty much all the spam that's been getting past my spam filter has been the "your email account is being upgraded/blocked/etc., please log in here to refresh it" kind 22:56:12 <ais523> but I run my own email server 22:56:26 <boily> quinthellopia! 22:56:37 <quintopia> is there a filter you can make that stops those too? 22:56:38 <ais523> the spambots seem to have assumed it's an academic server, I think 22:56:51 <ais523> quintopia: well it's a bayesian filter, it'll catch any that look similar enough to the ones that have come before 22:56:56 <ais523> maybe they just have more variety 22:57:17 <quintopia> do you have a beer boily 22:57:28 <boily> quintopia: I had a beer. 22:58:58 <quintopia> i have one chilling in the freezer. shouldn't take more than a few minutes before i have one. 22:59:52 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:00:01 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:01:37 <boily> what kind of beer is it? 23:01:45 <quintopia> summer shandy 23:01:49 <quintopia> cuz it's hot 23:01:51 <quintopia> outside 23:03:25 <boily> ooooh! somebody else who likes shandy! :D 23:04:10 <quintopia> well it's not a radler. the only fizz is the natural beer kind. 23:06:40 <quintopia> there are lots of ginger shandies at the beer store, mostly from the islands 23:06:48 <quintopia> but lemon is more refreshing imo 23:09:11 <oren_> the thing stores 8f to 4000, then 48 to 4001, then 64 to 4002, then finally 10 to 4003 23:09:47 <oren_> thus producing an annoying beepthat I am trying to eliminate 23:12:06 <boily> helloren_. what's a thing? 23:12:22 <oren_> the nes game 1942 23:12:43 <oren_> with the worst sound of any nes game I have ever played 23:13:07 <quintopia> change them all to zeros! 23:13:31 <oren_> quintopia: I have to figure out where the values come from first 23:14:49 <oren_> well they are read from 0753-0756 23:15:46 <quintopia> boily: so when will the day come? 23:16:27 <boily> quintopia: yes. 23:16:45 <quintopia> the day when 23:16:50 <quintopia> you can play games 23:16:52 <quintopia> on your computer 23:17:03 -!- mihow has joined. 23:17:30 <zzo38> Is there Windows API to figure out how much space is take up by the border, caption, menu of the window so that you can figure out the proper size of the main area? 23:18:03 <quintopia> i thought there was one that actually just told you what th esize of the main area is? or does it give wrong answers? 23:18:44 <zzo38> I don't know, what one is it though? 23:21:30 <ais523> zzo38: there is; I can't remember the actual name, but windows uses the name "client area" for the main area, and "non-client area" for the border, caption, menus etc. 23:21:34 <ais523> so those are good search terms to use 23:21:43 <quintopia> i would expect it to be one of thesse things: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724385(v=vs.85).aspx 23:22:12 <ais523> I think it might have had "metrics" in the name? 23:22:55 <quintopia> or maybe that's more general than a particular window 23:25:02 <zzo38> The VB6 "Height" and "Width" properties are including the non-client area 23:25:03 <quintopia> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms633503(v=vs.85).aspx this looks promising 23:25:14 <oren_> maybe I can replace the code with a JMP to some zeroed pat of the rom and write some interception code? 23:25:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:28:00 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:30:20 <zzo38> I figured it out I don't need any API functions 23:49:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CONVEYOR CHICKEN). 23:50:17 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:52:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Developers]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43327&oldid=43322 * Oerjan * (-14711) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Phase|Phase]] ([[User talk:Phase|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:24.150.81.84|24.150.81.84]] 23:52:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] revision * Oerjan * Oerjan changed visibility of revisions on page [[Developers]]: Copyright violation 23:53:20 <ais523> ooh, we have revision visibility changing now? 23:53:34 <oerjan> haven't we always? 23:53:35 <ais523> my skills at manual revision deletion are possibly entirely obsolete then :-( 23:53:44 <oerjan> ah 23:53:51 <ais523> nah, it hadn't even been invented when I first became an Esolang admin 23:53:57 <oerjan> heh 23:53:58 <ais523> I've done it manually at Wikipedia too 23:57:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:58:14 -!- Patashu has joined. 2015-06-27: 00:06:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Phase]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43328 * Oerjan * (+358) /* Developers */ License incompatibility 00:06:48 <oren_> I DID IT 00:07:00 <oerjan> *GASP* 00:07:19 <oren_> now, how do I diff two roms? 00:08:03 <oerjan> truly a mystery. 00:08:59 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:09:00 <HackEgo> fternooner/fternooner (Danish »fternooner«, Norwegian «ttermiddag», Swedish ”ftermiddag”) is a screamingly delicious pastry. 00:09:06 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:09:07 <HackEgo> spam/Spam is a delicious meat product. See http://www.spamjamhawaii.com/ 00:09:09 <oren_> by 'it' I mean I got 1942 to not sound so much like 8-bit diarrhea 00:09:13 <shachaf> `wisdom 00:09:14 <HackEgo> universal property/Universal properties are the best. 00:09:40 <oerjan> shachaf: i am thinking that maybe, perhaps, you are overdoing `wisdom a tiny bit, possibly. 00:10:00 <shachaf> oerjan: ok 00:10:04 <shachaf> can you put a probability on it 00:10:28 <oerjan> 0.814 00:10:35 <shachaf> d1000 00:10:35 <lambdabot> shachaf: 5 00:10:56 <shachaf> I guess it's decided. 00:11:07 <shachaf> `rm bin/wisdom 00:11:10 <HackEgo> No output. 00:11:38 <oerjan> i am thinking that maybe, perhaps, you are overreacting a tiny bit, possibly. 00:11:49 <oerjan> (0.316) 00:11:56 <shachaf> d1000 00:11:56 <lambdabot> shachaf: 608 00:11:59 <shachaf> `revert 00:12:08 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 00:12:12 <shachaf> oerjan: The thing is, if I don't delete bin/wisdom, I'll forget and keep using it. 00:12:34 <oerjan> shocking 00:13:09 <shachaf> What if I limit myself to only about a hundred a day? 00:13:17 <oerjan> >_> 00:14:16 <oerjan> HackEgo needs better meta-information available. 00:15:36 <oerjan> hm there's no way to implement a limit without having `wisdom do repository changes, is there. 00:16:00 <ais523> oerjan: you could modify HackEgo itself hth 00:16:09 <oerjan> no i cannot hth 00:16:24 <ais523> `quote 00:16:26 <HackEgo> 25) <ehird> pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless. <fungebob> ehird: consider low-gravity porn <ehird> fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced. 00:16:26 <ais523> `quote 00:16:27 <HackEgo> 1005) <olsner> I've seen horses jump on tv, they can probably jump in scotland too 00:16:27 <ais523> `quote 00:16:28 <HackEgo> 34) <Dylan> actually, I pretended to be a hobo to get directions 00:16:29 <ais523> `quote 00:16:30 <HackEgo> 1057) <Taneb> I would like to learn how to use a sword <Taneb> And also how to ride a unicycle <Taneb> Perhaps not at the same time 00:16:30 <ais523> `quote 00:16:31 <HackEgo> 906) <zzo38> I do study philosophy of much. 00:18:40 <oerjan> 34 me thinks 00:19:02 <ais523> `delquote 34 00:19:07 <HackEgo> ​*poof* <Dylan> actually, I pretended to be a hobo to get directions 00:19:08 <ais523> it's not /awful/, but I like the others 00:19:22 <ais523> maybe we should have a similar rule for `wisdom 00:19:32 <oerjan> AAAAAAAAAAA 00:20:10 <ais523> reading through a list of quotes normally makes me laugh so much that I can have trouble breathing 00:20:11 <oerjan> sorry, `wisdom can only be improved, not deleted hth 00:20:13 <ais523> wisdom, not so much 00:20:29 <olsner> oerjan: bad or boring wisdom should be deleted imo 00:20:34 <olsner> just like quotes but different 00:20:47 <oerjan> olsner: no you should be required to make a better one hth 00:21:02 * oerjan stamps his feet 00:21:26 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 00:21:31 <oerjan> except those guestbot ones. what's about those? 00:21:48 <olsner> the whatnows? 00:22:18 <oerjan> guestbot made some wisdoms that were seemingly random junk 00:23:11 <ais523> `le/rn hash 2346ad27d7568ba9896f1b7da6b5991251debdf2 00:23:14 <HackEgo> Learned «hash 2346ad27d7568ba9896f1b7da6b5991251debdf2» 00:23:25 <ais523> let's see how much I can bring down the quality of wisdom before people start deleting it 00:23:35 <oerjan> `revert 00:23:36 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 00:23:50 <ais523> that was fast! 00:23:51 <oerjan> that wasn't a wisdom, you forgot the slash hth 00:24:06 <ais523> it was a very foolish wisdom 00:24:59 <oerjan> `? hash 00:25:00 <HackEgo> hash? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:25:54 * oerjan needs to avoid procrastinating going to bed so much tonight 00:26:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Hi!). 00:27:10 <ais523> that quit message hurts my brain :-( 00:29:01 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:33:19 <oren_> http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=10002352884006354848 00:33:38 <oren_> There. Now 1942 doesn't sound like complete *shit* 00:42:56 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 00:42:57 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:48:35 -!- GeekDude has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:57:09 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:07:30 -!- variable has joined. 01:23:00 <oren_> 8 bit color is good for reducing the size of images 01:34:48 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:44:29 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:50:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:42:28 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 02:57:59 -!- hilquias has joined. 03:02:29 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 03:06:00 -!- variable has joined. 03:11:59 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:25:11 <Sgeo_> I screwed up my Facebook profile's thumbnail 03:25:44 <Sgeo_> I wanted to see what the pride filter looked like if applied twice. Then I tried to switch back to the first one, but the thumbnail now isn't the same, the purple is cut off 03:33:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ROT13 encoder]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43329 * 24.72.137.130 * (+35) Redirected page to [[ROT13 encoder/decoder]] 03:34:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ROT13 decoder]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43330 * 24.72.137.130 * (+35) Redirected page to [[ROT13 encoder/decoder]] 03:41:48 <fowl> Thats the cost of pridefulness 04:03:18 <oren_> domain names are insanely cheap 04:03:47 <quintopia> what was the copyright violation that oerjan reverted? 04:04:05 <quintopia> oh 04:06:13 <oren_> oerjan and shachaf: you could implement a limit on `wisdom by having it seach for invocations of itself in the logs 04:06:54 <oren_> that would not cause repo changes, would it. 04:07:29 <quintopia> i'm guessing it was a copy of this page http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Developers! 04:18:50 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:24:10 <shachaf> oren_: HackEgo doesn't have access to the logs anymore hth 04:55:29 <oren_> uh, just wget them? 05:24:58 <fowl> Nope 05:25:18 <fowl> There no wget, only zuul 05:31:34 <coppro> @tell boily got my first yakuman today! suuankou 05:31:34 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 05:38:54 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 05:53:46 -!- ais523 has quit. 06:16:30 -!- zadock has joined. 06:44:17 -!- fandhy has joined. 06:46:12 -!- fandhy has left. 06:51:13 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:53:12 -!- augur has joined. 06:56:10 -!- mihow has joined. 06:56:35 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:00:45 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 07:21:39 <izabera> d'aawwww github and stackoverflow have a rainbow logo today 07:22:23 <izabera> https://assets-cdn.github.com/images/icons/pridetocat.png 08:29:36 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 08:29:36 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Changing host). 08:29:36 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 08:30:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:33:14 <oerjan> @ask ais523 <ais523> that quit message hurts my brain :-( <-- is your brain vulnerable to logic bombs tdnh 08:33:14 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 08:33:46 <codergeek42> (lol) 08:40:43 <myname> what quit message? 08:41:10 <oerjan> see the logs hth 08:41:25 <myname> too lazy 08:42:28 <oerjan> very well, it was "Hi!" hth 09:10:38 -!- idris-bot has joined. 09:10:39 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Quit: Good night...). 09:13:51 -!- password2 has joined. 09:30:25 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:38:28 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 09:46:26 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:48:15 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:58:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:03:02 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:19:28 -!- Melvar has joined. 11:11:47 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 11:14:51 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:17:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:32:32 -!- idris-bot has joined. 12:04:56 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting). 12:08:07 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:09:49 -!- FreeFull has joined. 12:27:22 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:36:30 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:40:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43331&oldid=42836 * Esowiki201529A * (+75) 12:45:13 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 14:03:40 -!- nys has joined. 14:18:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:29:17 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:35:36 -!- atrapado has joined. 14:49:29 -!- Froox has joined. 14:51:01 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:07:04 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:21:12 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 15:25:26 -!- nys has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:36:21 -!- nys has joined. 15:44:49 -!- variable has joined. 15:58:09 -!- mauris has joined. 15:59:58 <mauris> @tell boily i am here (also, i am nooodl) 15:59:58 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 16:04:51 <oren_> guten morgen 16:29:46 <int-e> @localtime oren_ 16:29:46 <lambdabot> Local time for oren_ is Sat Jun 27 12:31:53 2015 16:35:04 -!- zadock has joined. 16:48:28 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:50:32 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:54:58 -!- mauris_ has joined. 16:57:33 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:04:07 -!- zadock has joined. 17:05:55 -!- variable has joined. 17:27:18 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:41:02 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:42:10 -!- heroux has joined. 17:44:43 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 17:44:58 <hppavilion1> Hi 17:45:23 <hppavilion1> Wait 17:45:43 <hppavilion1> I'm going to try switching clients 17:45:48 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Client Quit). 18:07:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:17:03 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:21:06 -!- TieSoul has joined. 18:22:58 <FireFly> `? nooodl 18:23:07 <HackEgo> noooooooodl is the correct spelling 18:26:36 -!- mauris_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:31:39 <int-e> please tell me we didn't have a noodl incident 18:32:36 <coppro> oh we did 18:35:17 <int-e> @metar lowi 18:35:18 <lambdabot> LOWI 271820Z 06003KT 350V130 9999 -SHRA FEW010 SCT060 BKN080 FEW080CB 17/15 Q1020 TEMPO TSRA 18:40:13 -!- mauris has joined. 18:44:10 -!- hilquias` has joined. 18:45:40 <shachaf> `` rgrep -l nooodl wisdom 18:45:41 <HackEgo> wisdom/nooodl 18:45:43 <shachaf> seems a waste 18:45:55 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:54:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:00:05 <FireFly> `? nooodl 19:00:06 <HackEgo> nooooooodl is the correct spelling 19:00:39 <FireFly> perhaps 19:01:39 <shachaf> hi mauris 19:02:41 <shachaf> `le/rn mauris/maur is the correct spelling 19:02:47 <HackEgo> Learned «mauris» 19:03:37 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 19:03:55 <hppavilion1> Hi 19:05:52 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Client Quit). 19:17:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:18:07 -!- fungot has joined. 19:22:03 -!- Matt-Nexus5 has joined. 19:22:06 -!- Matt-Nexus5 has left. 19:26:07 -!- Matt-Nexus5 has joined. 19:26:07 -!- Matt-Nexus5 has left. 19:29:20 -!- Matt-Nexus5 has joined. 19:29:20 -!- Matt-Nexus5 has left. 19:31:52 -!- Matt-Nexus5 has joined. 19:32:14 -!- Matt-Nexus5 has left. 19:42:31 -!- Matt-Nexus5 has joined. 19:44:26 -!- Matt-Nexus5 has left. 19:55:58 -!- hilquias` has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:08:01 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:14:40 <Sgeo_> Holy crap I found a tumblr with background music that doesn't autoplay 20:17:30 -!- boily has joined. 20:19:01 <oren_> Wow 20:19:33 <Sgeo_> http://enbizaka-murders.tumblr.com/ 20:19:39 <oren_> I remember music on webpages. they had that in like 2006? and then it went away... 20:22:19 <oren_> Well specifically I rember it on myspace. I guess all those people went to tumblr, and I got too busy to argue with people over stupis stuff on the internet 20:24:48 <Sgeo_> Ok this person posts way way way too frequently for me to ever catch up 20:25:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Shoelips]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43332 * Phase * (+4322) Shopelips language 20:26:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Shoelips]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43333&oldid=43332 * Phase * (-148) 20:26:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: EASTBOUND CHICKEN). 20:35:21 <mauris> shachaf: hichaf 20:35:51 <shachaf> hauris 20:36:01 <shachaf> hau'r things 20:45:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:48:03 <oerjan> <shachaf> `le/rn mauris/maur is the correct spelling <-- did you know no:maur = en:ant hth 20:48:39 <mauris> isn't "is" ice? 20:49:00 <shachaf> `thanks mauris 20:49:00 <HackEgo> Thanks, mauris. Thauris. 20:49:06 <oerjan> <shachaf> seems a waste <-- there's at least one other 20:49:11 <oerjan> `? noodle 20:49:12 <HackEgo> Nooooooodles are the invention of the Chinese. They were brought to Europe by Marco Polo, a distant ancestor of Taneb. 20:49:26 <mauris> shachaf: things've been good! how're shachafs 20:50:13 <mauris> (i patiently await lauding feedback from oerjan on my knowledge of the norwegian language) 20:50:17 <shachaf> `` rgrep -il nooodl wisdom 20:50:19 <HackEgo> wisdom/nooodle \ wisdom/nooodl 20:52:25 <oerjan> mauris: wait what. 20:52:43 <oerjan> `cat wisdom/noodle 20:52:44 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/noodle: No such file or directory 20:53:00 <oerjan> hm... 20:53:04 <oerjan> `? noodl 20:53:05 <HackEgo> nooodl is the correct spelling 20:54:14 <oerjan> oh. 20:54:22 <oerjan> mauris: yes. 20:54:44 * oerjan didn't connect mauris's statement to his own. 21:01:03 <shachaf> oerjan: just look around you hth 21:06:24 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't see how that is relevant, and neither does my calcium consultant 21:06:53 <shachaf> calcium consultant? 21:06:56 <shachaf> am i missing something now 21:07:14 <oerjan> very bright element 21:08:16 <shachaf> ? 21:08:37 <oerjan> the calcium thinks you're really bad at this obscure reference thing hth 21:09:20 <oerjan> `quote obscure 21:09:21 <HackEgo> 791) <Phantom__Hoover> the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september 21:09:35 <oerjan> we've never added that thing ais523 said 21:10:01 <ais523> what thing I said? 21:10:49 <oerjan> about obscure references 21:11:55 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm not trying to be obscure 21:12:34 <oerjan> but i am hth 21:12:48 <shachaf> yes but could you say what you mean instead 21:13:38 <ais523> oerjan: I'm not as vulnerable to logic bombs as computers in fiction are 21:13:48 <oerjan> ais523: O KAY 21:14:03 <oerjan> shachaf: this is intelligent calcium hth 21:14:16 <oerjan> just look around you, it's everywhere 21:14:59 <shachaf> ok so is the whole thing a thing where you talk about something else out of look around you 21:15:49 <oerjan> `addquote <ais523> (on another note, I love the way that the standard way to indicate that you get a reference is to make a different obscure reference to the same thing) 21:15:51 <HackEgo> 1246) <ais523> (on another note, I love the way that the standard way to indicate that you get a reference is to make a different obscure reference to the same thing) 21:16:24 <ais523> I said that ages ago, but the sentence is still true 21:16:34 <oerjan> btw googling for that in the logs mainly brings up my previous desperate attempts to find it in the logs. 21:16:50 <shachaf> oerjan: oh 21:17:05 <shachaf> i didn't know that was a standard way 21:17:11 <oerjan> NOW YOU DO 21:17:52 <shachaf> I don't have to like it. 21:17:59 <shachaf> in fact references are just terrible 21:18:45 <oerjan> shachaf: then why did you make one tdnh 21:18:57 <shachaf> not for its own sake hth 21:36:30 <ais523> $ TZ='UTC+2' LC_ALL=fr_FR.UTF-8 date 21:36:32 <ais523> samedi 27 juin 2015, 19:37:45 (UTC-0200) 21:36:34 <ais523> $ TZ='UTC-2' LC_ALL=fr_FR.UTF-8 date 21:36:35 <ais523> samedi 27 juin 2015, 23:37:50 (UTC+0200) 21:36:37 <ais523> what? 21:38:09 <oerjan> fancie 21:39:09 <ais523> it's more that the TZ variable is being interpreted backwards 21:43:15 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 21:44:16 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:45:13 <shachaf> `` TZ='UTC+8' date +'%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S %:::z' 21:45:14 <HackEgo> 2015-06-27 13:47:30 -08 21:45:17 <shachaf> `` TZ='UTC-8' date +'%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S %:::z' 21:45:18 <HackEgo> 2015-06-28 05:47:35 +08 21:45:28 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:17:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 22:42:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:54:03 -!- boily has joined. 23:07:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43334&oldid=43331 * Esowiki201529A * (+266) /* Quine */ 23:16:30 <oren_> AWWW! Tama the stationmaster cat has passed on... RIP Tama. 23:31:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43335&oldid=43334 * Esowiki201529A * (+574) 23:36:32 <oren_> If the russians get Greece they won't need Syris 23:37:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43336&oldid=43335 * Esowiki201529A * (+35) /* Oscillator */ 23:39:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43337&oldid=43336 * Esowiki201529A * (+16) /* [conwaylife.com/wiki/Oscillator Oscillator] */ 23:39:22 <MDude> But would they need to pay all that debt for them? 23:40:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43338&oldid=43337 * Esowiki201529A * (-9) /* Oscillator */ 23:40:50 <oren_> No idea. But if greece gets kicked out of EU, under a socialist gov't, they might at least be receptive to a russian offer of trade 23:42:16 <oren_> I mean, greece doesn't owe russia nay money, they owe it to the Germans (and Swiss) 23:43:48 <oren_> And what better way to piss off Germany than to let Russian ships berth there? 23:44:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43339&oldid=43338 * Esowiki201529A * (+60) /* Oscillator */ 23:44:47 <oren_> So yeah, that is my crazy prediction 23:46:18 <boily> I predict a merger of the Greek and cyrillic alphabets. 23:46:22 <boily> @massages-loud 23:46:22 <lambdabot> coppro said 18h 14m 49s ago: got my first yakuman today! suuankou 23:46:22 <lambdabot> mauris said 7h 46m 24s ago: i am here (also, i am nooodl) 23:46:36 <boily> coppro: WOOT! :D 23:47:02 <boily> `? mauris 23:47:05 <HackEgo> maur is the correct spelling 23:47:40 <boily> already prepared to be wisdompdfified. good job guys! 23:47:58 <shachaf> not a fan of the wisdom pdf tdnh 23:48:12 <shachaf> i like logs to remain in the past 23:49:11 <boily> fungot: hello? 23:49:11 <fungot> boily: and it makes my pinky hurt 23:49:19 <boily> fungot: FUNGOT! 23:49:21 <fungot> boily: fnord and me are trying to solve two problems at once, i think. it's just 23:49:44 <oren_> Boily: I already implemented an encoding with CGL Unification 23:49:57 <boily> oren_: CGL? 23:50:17 <oren_> Cyrillic Greek and Latin 23:50:33 <oren_> Essentially the characters that look the same are encoded only once 23:53:09 <mauris> helloily 23:54:05 <boily> bonmaurisoir! 23:54:15 <shachaf> what's that softish brown finnish bread called? 23:55:49 <mauris> my google skills guess "ruis" 23:56:55 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 23:57:12 <oren_> hellombie 23:57:39 <oren_> `welcome ZombieAlive 23:57:40 <HackEgo> ZombieAlive: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 2015-06-28: 00:00:27 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 00:00:56 <fowl> `welcome fowl 00:00:57 <HackEgo> fowl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 00:01:09 <fowl> Thanks fowl you're so kind 00:01:27 <fowl> I feel like i am part of this community now 00:03:29 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"i=1024 i*16 _xi" 00:03:30 <HackEgo> 00004000 00:04:07 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"i=1024 i*64 _xi" 00:04:07 <HackEgo> 00010000 00:05:09 <oren_> why do I not have scrip7 on my own computer? 00:06:52 <boily> fowl: fellowl. you never were `welcomed? 00:08:45 -!- augur has joined. 00:13:38 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:13:56 <fowl> I dunno. I drift in an out of lucidity so maybe 00:54:08 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:20:08 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:22:08 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:22:26 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 01:33:18 <fowl> What do you all think about code of conducts 01:33:25 <fowl> Codes of conduct? 01:33:32 <fowl> Conductive codes? 01:34:44 <boily> conductive codes. 01:35:00 <boily> (more seriously, codes of conduct.) 01:43:31 -!- boily has set topic: oren_ finds bugs. | Sir Fungellot is alive and fnord! | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/. 01:43:54 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SECTION CHICKEN). 02:30:40 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%19380 j=29 j*16 i-j _xi" 02:30:41 <HackEgo> 000191b0 02:31:10 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%19380 j=78 j*16 ij _xi" 02:31:11 <HackEgo> 25:bad arg 02:31:15 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%19380 j=78 j*16 i+j _xi" 02:31:16 <HackEgo> 00019860 02:32:37 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%19380 j=78 j*16 i+j _xi" 02:32:38 <HackEgo> 00019860 02:34:52 <oren_> [5~[5~[5~[5~[5~[A[B[5~[5~[5~[B[5~[6~ 02:35:25 <augur> fowl: every community has a code of conduct 02:35:36 <augur> but most communities leave it implicit 02:35:59 <oren_> what just happen 02:36:38 <augur> someone set us up the bomb 02:36:38 <oren_> wow that's a weird glitch, I thought ssh was immune to line noise 02:38:10 <pikhq> It should be. 02:38:10 <pikhq> It's not immune to terminal weirdness, however. 02:38:11 <oren_> yeah, that seems like what it must be 02:39:20 <oren_> well I restarted xfceterm 02:48:05 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:55:10 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 03:05:20 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%191b0 j=29 j*16 i-j _xi" 03:05:20 <HackEgo> 00018fe0 03:05:26 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%191b0 j=29 j*16 i+j _xi" 03:05:26 <HackEgo> 00019380 03:05:30 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%191b0 j=18 j*16 i+j _xi" 03:05:30 <HackEgo> 000192d0 03:11:14 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%191b0 j=15 j*16 i+j _xi" 03:11:14 <HackEgo> 000192a0 03:26:31 <f|`-`|f> wat 03:27:08 <f|`-`|f> hmmm 03:27:46 <f|`-`|f> my issue with codes of conduct is the vulnerablity of the code itself 03:28:05 <f|`-`|f> in lieu of pressure, or threats from the outside decrying you of not being "conducive" 03:30:15 <f|`-`|f> A lotof the times, the code becomes bogged down naturally from a lot of barrages from internal and external "moralistic community leaders", and it comes in the way of normal function 03:30:25 <f|`-`|f> Due to things like micromanaging behavior 03:30:41 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:33:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:35:05 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:39:11 -!- nys has quit (Quit: sleep). 03:43:25 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%19280 j=19 j*16 i-j _xi" 03:43:26 <HackEgo> 00019150 03:44:00 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%191b0 j=15 j*%16 i+j _xi" 03:44:01 <HackEgo> 000192fa 03:44:06 <oren_> AHA!!! 03:44:16 <oren_> wait, no 03:44:32 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%19280 j=%19 j*16 i-j _xi" 03:44:33 <HackEgo> 000190f0 03:45:04 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%190f0 j=%07 j*16 i+j _xi" 03:45:05 <HackEgo> 00019160 03:46:30 <oren_> ok, that's what was wrong 03:47:41 <augur> who's to say it was wrong 03:48:04 <augur> maybe you're wrong? how do you know this words means what you think it means? 03:48:10 <oren_> well, it wasnt't pointing me to the right place in the romfile to edit 03:48:16 <augur> quus quus quus 03:48:54 <oren_> or rather, to the place I wanted to edit, whether wrong or right 03:52:39 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%190f0 j=%11 j*16 i+j _xi" 03:52:39 <HackEgo> 00019200 03:56:24 <oren_> `` scrip7 <<<"j>1 i=%190f0 j=%40 j*16 i+j _xi" 03:56:25 <HackEgo> 000194f0 03:59:17 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 06:07:04 -!- password2_ has joined. 06:25:37 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:37:16 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:19:06 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:44:26 -!- fowl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:50:50 -!- fowl has joined. 08:18:08 -!- newsham has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:18:23 -!- newsham has joined. 08:44:21 -!- llue has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:51:14 -!- newsham has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:51:27 -!- newsham has joined. 09:06:24 <ais523> `quote 09:06:24 <HackEgo> 1116) <ais523> hmm… I guess the difference between me and most esolangers is that I don't instantly go and put it into a BF derivative and call it a day 09:06:25 <ais523> `quote` 09:06:26 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quote`: not found 09:06:33 <ais523> `quote 09:06:34 <HackEgo> 680) * Phantom_Hoover moves 0.5 Phantom_Hoover into the Atlantic, and captures fizzie's upper body with 0.5 Phantom_Hoover. <fizzie> Glurk. 09:06:35 <ais523> `quote 09:06:36 <HackEgo> 124) <alise> I love logic, especially the part where it makes no sense. 09:06:36 <ais523> `quote 09:06:37 <HackEgo> 444) <itidus20> anyway, notational systems are a function of the euclidean plane 09:36:49 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:09:24 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 10:17:22 <oren_> `quote 10:17:23 <HackEgo> 998) <itidus21> :D :D oh man.. i wonder if they ever made chess variants based off of animes 10:17:25 <oren_> `quote 10:17:26 <HackEgo> 816) <olsner> fungot: what's your view on angels and other otherworldly beings? <fungot> olsner: well i'm mentioning theoretical image to be dumped in rain forests of laukaa. 10:17:35 <oren_> `quote 10:17:36 <HackEgo> 981) <Bike> i feel like i should say "sexual dimorphism" winkingly and then transmute myself into a horrid fleshbeast 10:17:41 <oren_> `quote 10:17:42 <HackEgo> 657) <shachaf> fizzie: What kind of speech recognition do you do? <shachaf> If you only need to recognize famous speeches, like Churchill or something, it should be pretty easy. 10:17:58 <oren_> `quote 10:17:58 <HackEgo> 155) <Gregor> elliott: My university has two Poultry Science buildings. <Gregor> Two! 10:41:43 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 10:46:44 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSoul_. 10:46:49 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 10:56:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GERMAN]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43340&oldid=41445 * Rdebath * (+47) TBS member 11:03:40 -!- fr4nt1c has joined. 11:53:49 -!- lleu has joined. 11:54:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Unibrain]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43341 * Rdebath * (+4398) A groaner. 12:12:47 -!- oren has joined. 12:12:47 -!- oren_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:13:10 <oren> crap, my computer finally crashed 12:13:42 <oren> fucking firefox 12:40:42 -!- SopaXT has joined. 13:01:25 -!- nys has joined. 13:25:11 -!- variable has joined. 13:28:18 -!- mauris has joined. 13:29:04 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 13:51:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:52:09 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:00:37 -!- boily has joined. 14:20:40 <boily> helloren. you too are having problems with the firefox? 14:32:18 -!- atrapado has joined. 15:13:33 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:23:36 -!- variable has joined. 15:34:04 <quintopia> helloily 15:34:11 <quintopia> you never answered me 15:35:05 <boily> quinthellopia. 15:35:25 <boily> I know. Wednesday is a Holiday. 15:35:31 <boily> can you Wednesday? 15:36:01 <quintopia> i can wednesday after 7, and probably after 5, depending on work. 15:36:18 <boily> good! then on va mercredir ça! 15:36:28 <boily> (we'll wednesday.) 15:36:45 <quintopia> what game 15:36:47 <boily> (it's expliciter in French that a noun is verbed. English lacks purposeful inflections.) 15:37:10 <boily> at least Civ 5. what do you recommend? 15:37:30 <boily> (I wonder if I can get some CoD running on linux...) 15:37:58 <quintopia> something co-op. does borderlands 2 linux? 15:38:14 <quintopia> (i say borderlands 2 because it is humble bundle) 15:38:45 <boily> lemmecheck... 15:40:13 <boily> no, only windows and mac (and steamplay?) 15:40:41 <quintopia> well there's always portal 2 15:41:16 <boily> I have portal 2. 15:42:03 <quintopia> i also have battleblock theater, contagion, damned, don't starve together, FORCED, hero siege, PAYDAY: the heist, and sanctum. I know these are all co-op, but I don't know which are linux 15:42:21 <quintopia> i should create a new category for "linux" 15:43:46 <quintopia> boily: you should subscribe cedega! 15:44:19 <boily> there is such a thing as cedega. 15:45:13 <boily> uh... according to wikipédia, there was such a thing as cedega. 15:45:54 <quintopia> oh 15:47:11 <quintopia> well, steam says battleblock theater and hero siege and borderlands 2 all run on sufficiently good linuces 15:47:39 <quintopia> borderlands 2 runs on ubuntu 14.04 15:49:58 <boily> got 15.04 on both machines here. it'll do. 15:52:58 <quintopia> https://www.humblebundle.com/ $1 gets you borderlands2 for linux, $7 gets you all its DLC (except the 2 biggest/most recent) 15:53:35 <quintopia> (in the form of steam keys probably) 15:54:52 <boily> bought. 15:55:43 <boily> now, on to lunch. I'm hungry. 15:56:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NEUME CHICKEN). 15:57:20 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:05:06 -!- SopaXT has joined. 16:12:13 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:20:37 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 16:22:15 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:06:47 <Sgeo> "Sputnik 1 burned up on 4 January 1958, as it fell from orbit upon reentering Earth's atmosphere, after travelling about 70 million km (43.5 million miles) and spending 3 months in orbit.[9]" 17:07:01 -!- password2_ has joined. 17:07:02 <Sgeo> Aww, it would have been fun if the first artificial sattelite was still up there 17:08:25 <pikhq> That requires active orbit maintenance. 17:08:39 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:10:22 <pikhq> Especially for near-earth orbits, which still experience atmospheric drag. 17:13:47 <Sgeo> Is there a point at which no active orbit maintenance is needed? 17:13:53 <Sgeo> Like, at some altitude? 17:14:02 <Sgeo> The moon doesn't need to be actively maintained 17:14:51 <quintopia> there are plenty of such orbits. 17:15:23 <quintopia> the main requirement is "not being too close to earth and all the trash and air around it" 17:15:50 <pikhq> Being massive helps a lot. 17:15:54 <quintopia> of course, it is precisely because of the moon that this becomes difficult 17:16:13 <pikhq> Geosynchronous orbits need active maintenance because of tidal effects from the moon. 17:16:14 <quintopia> L1 is a good one though 17:18:21 <Sgeo> Ah 17:19:55 <quintopia> L4 and L5 are also nice, but farther away 17:30:06 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 17:30:16 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Client Quit). 17:30:46 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 17:38:16 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:40:02 -!- boily has joined. 17:43:25 <oren> You could snag an asteroid for some heft, then it would not need mush maintenance, being large enough 17:57:19 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:05:43 <boily> http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-120 18:07:17 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:17:15 -!- Froox has changed nick to Frooxius. 18:20:08 <quintopia> which one is that? 18:20:16 <quintopia> also how was lunch? 18:32:31 <boily> it's the teleporting kiddy pool. you may end up at some random L* point with it. 18:32:40 <boily> I had pho! 18:32:51 <boily> (I ought to redeadkey this layout one day...) 18:33:35 <boily> did you lunch? 18:37:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lisacintosh * New user account 18:37:51 <quintopia> ah yes the dead pool. i have just finished prandizing 18:38:24 <quintopia> do you live in a place where viet food is the easiest to get? 18:39:06 <boily> `? prandizing 18:39:28 <HackEgo> prandizing? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:39:49 <boily> yes. you can get your fix any day of the week, anywhere you want. 18:40:02 <boily> (although they tend to be closed on Tuesday for some mysterious reasone.) 18:40:14 <boily> s/e\././ 18:41:20 <quintopia> (google the etymology of "preprandial") 18:42:03 <boily> tdh. tmyk... 18:43:30 <quintopia> `? tmyk 18:43:32 <HackEgo> tmyk the more overfilled your brain gets. 18:43:58 <quintopia> ah. i was guessing "that much you knew" for some reason 18:44:26 <boily> akihtb. 18:44:55 <quintopia> yylmt 18:45:28 <quintopia> "a knowledge it helps the brain"? 18:45:33 * boily scratches his head. “yylmt???ʼn 18:45:38 <boily> s/ʼn/”/ 18:45:51 <boily> And Knowing Is Half The Battle. 18:46:01 <boily> but yours' quite good too. 18:46:23 <quintopia> Yeah, You Lost Me There... 18:46:31 <boily> heh :D 18:47:15 -!- variable has joined. 19:00:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43342&oldid=42761 * Lisacintosh * (+4165) 19:01:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43343&oldid=43342 * Lisacintosh * (-4165) Undo revision 43342 by [[Special:Contributions/Lisacintosh|Lisacintosh]] ([[User talk:Lisacintosh|talk]]) 19:03:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SMIL]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43344 * Lisacintosh * (+4331) Created page with "SMIL (Structured and Methodic and Innovative Language) is a metadata ASCII-smileys based language. Data are only input by command line, the program just contains instructions...." 19:04:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43345&oldid=43320 * Lisacintosh * (+11) Add SMIL lang 19:04:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:18:30 <zzo38> I think they did make chess variants based off of anime 19:22:10 <oren> I have invented a useful shell utility. Suppose you want to execute a command on a file in this directory, but you're not sure which file or the file's name. 19:23:08 <boily> zzo38: ah? 19:23:10 <boily> oren: ah? 19:23:19 <oren> With my new program 'choose' you can type 'choose nano' and then it will give an interactive display of a list of files in the current directory, from which you can choose the file you want 19:23:39 <oren> at which point it will exec 'nano filename' 19:24:34 <boily> can you filter/order by relevance, mime types and recently used? 19:25:05 <oren> no, not yet. I do plan on adding filters though 19:27:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:29:09 * boily interpretative dances a hellørjan 19:30:37 <b_jonas> oerjan: isn't that what the select builtin in bash does? 19:30:54 <oren> https://gist.github.com/orenwatson/99b38d7fb2813674d530 19:31:23 <b_jonas> oerjan: select f in ./*; do nano "$f"; break; done 19:31:23 <oerjan> b_jonas: wat 19:31:35 <b_jonas> oerjan: or a bit more if you want to get nano's exit code back 19:31:49 <b_jonas> um 19:31:51 <b_jonas> sorry 19:31:53 <b_jonas> oren: ^ 19:31:55 <b_jonas> oerjan: sorry 19:32:24 <boily> we should merge oren, oerjan and olsner together to reduce ambiguïty hth 19:32:28 <b_jonas> oren: choose(){ select f in ./*; do "$@" "$f"; break; done; } 19:32:37 <oerjan> the ormera 19:33:02 <b_jonas> hmm 19:33:19 * oerjan yodels a helloily 19:33:30 <oren> That's similar, but it doesn't show all the files or allow you to scroll if there are too many on screen 19:33:30 <Sgeo> If I'm not interested in making anything productive, but hoping it will help me learn how CPUs work, should I learn x86 assembly or x64 assembly or what? 19:34:18 <b_jonas> Sgeo: learn C first 19:34:32 <Sgeo> I understand the basics of C I think 19:34:33 <b_jonas> C is designed basically so it can do what CPUs can do 19:34:39 <b_jonas> ok, that's a good start 19:34:53 <b_jonas> Sgeo: is your goal learning what _modern_ CPUs can do? 19:34:55 <boily> learn C/C++, buy an arduino, profit! 19:34:57 <b_jonas> as in, contemporary ones? 19:35:04 <b_jonas> as opposed to thirty year old cpus? 19:35:06 <Sgeo> b_jonas, not sure 19:35:13 <Sgeo> Why not? 19:35:27 <b_jonas> dunno, I'm just asking about your goals 19:35:38 <oren> x86 is a bit complex for a CPU, if you want to know the basics, why not learn 6502 instead? It allows you to mod NES games! 19:36:09 <b_jonas> my goal, in particular, is to learn how to use modern cpus efficiently 19:36:20 <b_jonas> that entails learning some things about how they work, but not everything 19:36:24 -!- oerjonas has joined. 19:36:30 -!- b_jonas has left. 19:36:44 <oren> oerjonas? 19:36:47 <Sgeo> My goal is to get a better understanding of what exactly goes on 19:37:09 <oerjonas> yeah, I just wanted to do more 19:37:09 <Sgeo> I also have a goal of learning reverse engineering, but I'm not sure how connected that is 19:37:31 <oerjonas> I just wanted to have more confusable nicks 19:38:41 <oren> Then it depends what you are trying to reverse engineer. reverse engineering tends to involve at least a little machine code rather than assembler 19:39:26 <oerjan> i banned oer* before, i can do it again hth 19:39:45 -!- oren has changed nick to oern. 19:40:00 -!- boily has changed nick to oerly. 19:40:17 <oerjan> actually i think i muted it 19:40:27 <oerly> beuh :P 19:40:28 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:40:34 <oerjonas> oerjan: yeah. then I'd nick to orjonas or something 19:40:49 <oerjonas> oerjan: yeah. then I'd nick to orjonas or something 19:40:54 -!- oern has changed nick to oreo. 19:41:06 <oerjonas> does helloily count as another o-guy? 19:41:24 -!- oreo has changed nick to Guest33003. 19:41:32 -!- oerly has changed nick to boily. 19:41:37 -!- Guest33003 has changed nick to oren. 19:42:09 <boily> oerjonas: I don't think so... I'm more of a b_joily guy. 19:42:30 <oerjonas> b_joily: ok 19:45:10 <boily> I believe the chännel may be a little bit misbalanced hth 19:45:15 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:45:59 <boily> many Canadians, many Scandinavians, many o* people. 19:46:23 <olsner> boily: we are one, we just present ourself as several IRC users 19:46:50 <oren> one of us one of us, gooble gobble 19:47:02 <oerjonas> nah, I don't think the unbalances are statistically significant 19:47:42 <oerjonas> well, the unbalances you mentioned at least 19:47:55 <oerjonas> the channel may have a lot of crazy esolangers or 19:48:03 <oerjonas> something like that 19:49:36 <oerjonas> or you could say the channel isn't more unbalanced than <insert favourite gaming example here> 19:50:58 * boily inserts a hot dog into the favourite gaming example 19:54:16 -!- oerjonas has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:15:36 <zzo38> I know x86 (especially the modern one) is too complicated, 6502 is better you can not only to modify NES game but you can make up your own NES/Famicom game too 20:21:30 <fizzie> MIPS is the classic architecture for teaching computer architecture and CPU design etc., although I'm not entirely sure why. 20:21:41 <fizzie> Perhaps just tradition. 20:24:54 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:28:06 <Sgeo> I like complexity, it means I can keep reading more without getting bored 20:31:58 <zzo38> NMOS 6502 also has several unofficial opcodes though, some of them can be useful 20:34:49 <zzo38> Famizork currently uses ARR twice, ANC 22 times, AXS three times, LAX ten times, SAX once, and DCP once. 20:37:00 <zzo38> As well as unofficial NOPs to set breakpoints 20:39:32 * oerjan spots a live fizzie 20:40:20 <oerjan> also a dead fungot 20:48:04 -!- b_jonas has joined. 20:56:09 -!- boily has set topic: oren_ finds bugs. | Sir Fungellot does not fnord. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/. 20:59:11 -!- hilquias has joined. 21:04:02 <fizzie> oerjan: I was kind of not so well, and then on vacation in Scotland. 21:04:56 <fizzie> oerjan: Also there was no obvious "canary.orig" file to remove, although I got these vague recollections of maybe making canary a directory causing some breakage like this earlier. I'll try to have a look at *some* point. 21:05:28 <int-e> fnordbot: hey there 21:05:28 <fnordbot> int-e: with you you can last for up to thirty as well, i think...?" " unfortunately, in a desperate that any man who can," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine," shouted ford. " i don't want to go to work at," and he turned. " but," he added, " i'l 21:06:03 * boily mistrusts fnordbot 21:06:03 <fnordbot> boily: counterpoint the..." the fact that he had become. what mr prosser, " hadn't even begun to speculate," he continued, " you just let the machines began to think that the chances of getting picked. all in all it was extremely fortunate that at all, ford?" " well you see," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fai 21:06:12 <boily> fnordbot: you aren't fungot. 21:06:13 <oerjan> fizzie: hm there was someone claiming that the canary.orig directory would exist if the repository had _ever_ had a canary directory with files in it. 21:06:13 <fnordbot> boily: of work on ford at all. " i think you ought to be telling us?" ford looked at a piece. within a few short vog years every last vogon had migrated to the megabrantis cluster, the political economy. deep in the heart of a dark screen, just under five years, but you will when i was a kid you just saved a lot. " so all i have to do in order to find this wretched,", he said, " you can't keep us out!" " what the hell am, brain 21:06:31 <int-e> I don't have fizzie's language models 21:06:57 <fizzie> I did put fungot online too. 21:06:57 <int-e> so yeah, it's just a poor substitute 21:07:01 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:07:04 * boily prods fnordbot. prod prod prod. 21:07:05 <fizzie> But it did drop off *again*. 21:07:05 <fnordbot> boily: pour spirit into a lifestyle," a voice said " i seem to be having tremendous difficulty in finding the floor. " what," said trillian, " but those of finely calculated the cumulative effect is this? " who said that?" " try to explain to her to know that in to the reader's digest. glad you could make it a paying proposition. ford would have to go. " i don't want to go to work at," and he turned. " but," he added, " i'll ha 21:07:14 <oerjan> boily: i think fnordbot may secretly be a vogon. prepare to be evaporated. 21:07:14 <fnordbot> oerjan: which he had souped up into a pretty neat." the narrower streets he would often gatecrash university of maximegalon, who pursued a brilliant marble-sanded beaches of santraginus v, inhaling the heady sea vapours; you can sleep under it. " yeah," he said to a small lump of green and blue. " so," said ford, " the vogons run the ship, the dentrassis. he would have a nice relaxed day, do you want to go to work at," and he t 21:08:13 <boily> oerjan: I wouldn't like being evaporated. it sounds nasty. 21:08:17 <int-e> anyway, sleep... 21:08:18 * boily continues prodding fnordbot 21:08:19 <fnordbot> boily: much to themselves, who needs a big wide sounding name like... it's pretty low," continued ford. pretty crazy, zaphod," he was saying, " magrathea is a myth, a fairy story, it's what parents tell their kids at school nicknamed him ix, which in the language. to tremendous difficulty in finding the floor. " what," said trillian, " but those of finely calculated the cumulative effect is this? " the universe to it," he shout 21:08:20 -!- fungot has joined. 21:08:25 <boily> bonne nuint-e! 21:08:35 <boily> fungot: can you slay fnordbot? 21:08:36 <fnordbot> boily: with at least," he added, " i'll have you hung, huge, heavy, steady in the sky a huge green catalogue to keep us out!" " what the hell am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to take you to the bridge at that, i can tell." " the mice were furious." " try to explain to her to know that in to the reader's digest. glad you could make it a paying proposition.," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at 21:08:36 <fungot> boily: and wait 10 min for the generic class names and what was the fnord pretty good compared to my fnord above) 21:09:16 <int-e> too lazy to find ssh key... feel free to kick fnordbot 21:09:16 <fnordbot> int-e:, then a vast crescent sliced into the glass, every sheet of board." ( " a voice from ancient magrathea! " in a few seconds," he continued, " you just let the machines began to think that the chances of getting picked. a towel, it says, " is big. you must come with me?" said ford, " he was a hell of a lot. " so all i have to do in order to find this wretched,", he said at last, " i don't know," said the vogon guard. " er, 21:09:20 <boily> fnordbot: prepare to be genericified, you vaporating vogon! 21:09:20 <fnordbot> boily: over a billion and six people in the galaxy, a device which made this starship, one day, a student at the university of maximegalon, who pursued a brilliant marble-sanded beaches of santraginus v, inhaling the heady sea vapours; you can sleep under it. " yeah," he shouted to the guard, " not really. " we had a look at this," said slartibartfast, " that was one of mine,", he said, " you can't keep us out!" " what the hell 21:09:30 <int-e> ^style 21:09:30 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:09:31 <fnordbot> Available: irc* 21:10:22 <coppro> fuck color constancy 21:10:53 <boily> coppro: eh? 21:11:06 <coppro> it messes with my brain 21:21:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:26:20 -!- atrapado has joined. 21:30:22 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:31:16 <boily> that illusion with the shaded checkerboard and stuff? 21:31:39 <coppro> yes 21:43:36 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:18:50 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 22:18:50 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Changing host). 22:18:50 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 22:37:47 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 22:48:27 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:25:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 23:28:06 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:33:58 -!- Herbalist has joined. 23:33:58 -!- Herbalist has quit (Changing host). 23:33:58 -!- Herbalist has joined. 23:45:35 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 2015-06-29: 00:12:15 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:29:47 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:38:33 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:47:40 -!- fr4nt1c has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:20:18 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 01:33:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SHELVE CHICKEN). 01:54:28 <shachaf> FireFly: Why does TIS-100 make my cursor blink? 01:54:31 <shachaf> v. annoying tdnh 01:55:32 <FireFly> I guess in the 80s you didn't get to choose, so 01:59:43 <shachaf> My mouse cursor is blinking. 01:59:48 <shachaf> Even when I switch focus away from the game. 02:04:49 <FireFly> huh. 02:04:53 <FireFly> Doesn't do that for me 02:12:11 -!- GeekDude has joined. 02:21:11 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:27:23 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:42:43 -!- variable has joined. 03:05:27 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 03:19:11 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 03:23:42 -!- hilquias has joined. 04:07:39 -!- f|`-`|f has changed nick to |f`-`|f. 04:14:30 <tswett> So I wonder if you could write an operating system kernel in Rust. 04:14:36 <tswett> How hard could it be? 04:14:54 <tswett> There are two primary things I'm worried about. 04:15:05 <tswett> First, I don't know if it's feasible to write Rust code that doesn't make any system calls. 04:15:19 <tswett> A kernel doesn't get to make system calls. Not allowed. 04:15:46 <tswett> Second, I don't know how to get the compiler to produce output in the correct format. 04:22:43 -!- password2 has joined. 05:06:05 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 05:15:51 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:31:06 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:31:43 <shachaf> `@ newsham ? gazspaczo 05:31:44 <HackEgo> newsham: gazspaczo iz a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerved cold for hot szummer dayz 05:35:48 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:39:31 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:55:38 -!- zadock has joined. 06:02:52 -!- zadock has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:10:57 <Sgeo> "Theorem 1. For any conventional third-generation computer, an effective VMM may be constructed if the set of sensitive instructions for that computer is a subset of the set of privileged instructions. 06:10:57 <Sgeo> " 06:11:10 <Sgeo> That seems like the sort of thing that would be difficult to add retroactively 06:12:40 <shachaf> > (magic, magic 1 2 3) 06:12:42 <lambdabot> (0,3) 06:12:48 <Sgeo> :t magic 06:12:49 <lambdabot> Slack a => a 06:13:11 <Sgeo> > magic 1 06:13:13 <lambdabot> 1 06:13:14 <Sgeo> > magic 2 06:13:16 <lambdabot> 1 06:13:22 <Sgeo> > magic 5 0 06:13:24 <lambdabot> 2 06:13:31 <myname> interesting 06:13:37 <shachaf> not v. magic 06:13:38 <Sgeo> :src magic 06:14:00 <Sgeo> I don't know what I was expecting. A dead dove, maybe. 06:14:36 <myname> how does that work 06:14:51 <Sgeo> :t magic 1 06:14:53 <lambdabot> Slack t => t 06:14:53 <myname> > magic 'a' 'b' 06:14:55 <lambdabot> 2 06:15:02 <Sgeo> > magic undefined 06:15:04 <lambdabot> 1 06:15:17 <myname> obviously, t is always int? 06:15:43 <Sgeo> Or x -> Int or x -> y -> Int 06:15:46 <Sgeo> > magic 1 'a 06:15:47 <lambdabot> Syntax error on 'a 06:15:47 <lambdabot> Perhaps you intended to use TemplateHaskell 06:15:48 <lambdabot> In the Template Haskell quotation 'a 06:15:48 <Sgeo> > magic 1 'a' 06:15:49 <lambdabot> 2 06:15:58 <shachaf> t is never Int 06:17:07 <Sgeo> > 1 + magic 06:17:09 <lambdabot> 1 06:17:26 <Sgeo> > [1,magic] 06:17:27 <lambdabot> [1,0] 06:17:30 <Sgeo> > ['1',magic] 06:17:31 <lambdabot> No instance for (Slack Char) arising from a use of ‘magic’ 06:17:31 <lambdabot> In the expression: magic 06:17:31 <lambdabot> In the expression: ['1', magic] 06:17:42 <Sgeo> :t [1,magic] 06:17:43 <lambdabot> Slack t => [t] 06:18:04 <Sgeo> Integer? 06:18:16 <Sgeo> :t [1::Int,magic] 06:18:17 <lambdabot> No instance for (Slack Int) arising from a use of ‘magic’ 06:18:17 <lambdabot> In the expression: magic 06:18:17 <lambdabot> In the expression: [1 :: Int, magic] 06:18:21 <Sgeo> :t [1::Integer,magic] 06:18:21 <Deewiant> > magic :: Integer -- hth 06:18:23 <lambdabot> [Integer] 06:18:23 <lambdabot> 0 06:18:29 <myname> > (magic 1) `mod` (magic 1 2 3) 06:18:31 <lambdabot> 1 07:01:53 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:08:44 <Jafet> > printf "%d" (magic 'A') 07:08:46 <lambdabot> No instance for (Show a0) 07:08:46 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘show_M854909516733692471611434’ 07:08:46 <lambdabot> The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous 07:30:52 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:44:45 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:45:26 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 07:45:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:47:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:26:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:47:12 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:50:01 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:51:26 -!- FreeFull has joined. 08:51:39 <mroman_> fnord 08:58:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:15:11 <mroman_> @type magic 09:15:12 <lambdabot> Slack a => a 09:15:15 <mroman_> @type Slack 09:15:16 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor ‘Slack’ 09:15:16 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant variable ‘slack’ (line 152) 09:15:19 <mroman_> @info Slack 09:15:19 <lambdabot> Slack 09:15:49 <mroman_> > (5 :: Slack Integer) 09:15:51 <lambdabot> Expected a type, but ‘Slack Integer’ has kind ‘Constraint’ 09:15:51 <lambdabot> In an expression type signature: Slack Integer 09:15:51 <lambdabot> In the expression: (5 :: Slack Integer) 09:25:53 -!- zadock has joined. 09:31:16 -!- x10A94 has joined. 10:08:52 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:09:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:30:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: meeting). 10:33:58 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 10:43:54 -!- lleu has joined. 11:02:04 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:10:51 -!- llue has joined. 11:15:52 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:01:22 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 12:10:41 -!- nys has joined. 12:15:58 -!- fowl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:16:35 -!- fungot has joined. 12:22:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:24:44 -!- FreeFull has joined. 12:33:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:38:28 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 12:46:54 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 12:48:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * LegionMammal978 * New user account 12:51:46 * oerjan looks at new wiki nick suspiciously 12:54:54 <mroman_> Rasterfahndung - computer-aided search for wanted persons whereby the data of a large number of people are checked against existing data in a database 12:55:01 <mroman_> that's how leo translates Rasterfahndung 12:56:09 * oerjan has no idea of context 12:56:38 <oerjan> de.wikipedia to the rescue 12:58:09 -!- Herbalist has joined. 12:59:34 <mroman_> "dragnet investigation" seems to be another translation 13:01:03 <mroman_> "A dragnet is any system of coordinated measures for apprehending criminals or suspects; including road barricades and traffic stops, widespread DNA tests, and general increased police alertness." 13:01:25 <mroman_> although Rasterfahndung doesn't really involve road blocks or the like 13:01:31 <oerjan> i'm not sure whether ... right 13:01:36 <oerjan> it seemed more limited. 13:01:48 <mroman_> we use it for computer-assisted searching through databases 13:02:00 * oerjan also doesn't have the stamina to read that much in german. 13:02:26 <mroman_> You have a huge database of people 13:02:26 <oerjan> german word of the year in 1980 13:02:45 <mroman_> and you are looking for a person that has certain traits (like uhm scar over left eye) 13:02:52 <mroman_> and you check that against this huge database of people 13:04:02 <mroman_> You only have a "profile" of the criminal 13:04:06 <mroman_> which is usually very vague 13:06:25 <mroman_> the controversy is of course, that by doing that you suspect every person in that database to be a criminal 13:06:48 <mroman_> which is contrary to presumption of innocence 13:07:32 <oerjan> mhm 13:07:34 <mroman_> every person that comes out of this search is a "suspect until proven that he's innocent" 13:08:24 <mroman_> even though you have no indication to suspect him except that he's 50-60, recently immigrated from russia and owns a business 13:09:58 <mroman_> I don't fully get that, though. 13:11:05 <mroman_> I'm not really pro surveillance of the public though 13:13:21 <mroman_> but collecting every persons DNA at birth has some advantages :) 13:14:00 <Jafet> Indeed. You can charge for health insurance much more accurately. 13:14:37 <mroman_> Well, that would be against what they are for. 13:14:44 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:15:05 <mroman_> It's not your fault that you have a higher likelihood of getting cancer than somebody else 13:15:09 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 13:15:16 <mroman_> so making you pay more for that increased risk isn't "social". 13:16:58 <mroman_> well... it will be hard to determine what exactly is one's fault and what not 13:17:28 <mroman_> but the social system works by "healthy people" paying for "sick people" 13:17:42 <mroman_> not "healthy people" paying for themselves and "sick peopel" paying for themselves 13:18:10 <mroman_> given that people that drink and smoke don't have to pay more than those who don't. 13:18:31 <mroman_> Falling down the stairs drunk is technically your fault, so why do I have to pay for that? 13:18:55 <mroman_> The effects of alcohol are well known and despite this knowledge you chose to drink 13:19:09 * oerjan would have expected smokers to pay more, these days. 13:19:12 <mroman_> which indicates that you were ok taking the risks and therefore have a higher responsibility. 13:19:29 <oerjan> no idea if they do, i'm sitting safely here in single payer country 13:20:06 <mroman_> Humans are stupid anyway. 13:20:19 <mroman_> Going on a vandalism streak because their favorite ice hockey team lost in a game 13:20:33 <mroman_> like that would be in any way a.) change the outcome b.) make sense c.) do good 13:21:17 <mroman_> Yet everybody wonders why there's war going on in the world. 13:21:52 <oerjan> hm do teams get punished for that sort of thing? i recall racist remarks by supporters at football matches tends to 13:22:06 <oerjan> but maybe not outside arena stuff 13:22:13 <mroman_> They get punished for it sometimes, yes. 13:22:17 <mroman_> Like "ghost matches" 13:22:42 <mroman_> Those are matches that are played without any audience. 13:23:04 <mroman_> but usually the teams/clubs deny responsibility 13:23:23 <mroman_> which makes sense somehow because it's not really their fault that some people do stupid things after a match. 13:23:25 <oerjan> googling ghost match seemed to turn up something else, something about gambling fraud 13:23:41 <mroman_> It's called Geisterspiel and I took the liberty to translate it as "ghost match" 13:23:44 <mroman_> :D 13:24:12 <mroman_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behind_closed_doors_%28sport%29 13:24:25 <mroman_> (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geisterspiel) 13:24:43 -!- mauris has joined. 13:25:09 <oerjan> <mroman_> Yet everybody wonders why there's war going on in the world. <-- you know, if we could make _only_ the stupid people fight... 13:26:00 <mroman_> fight as in war? 13:26:03 <mroman_> or as in hooligans? 13:26:11 <oerjan> war was the thought 13:26:30 <mroman_> Well, if someone stupid attacks you your choices are pretty limited 13:26:33 <mroman_> run away or fight back 13:26:41 <mroman_> that's the bad part 13:27:00 <oerjan> well what i mean is, the stupid people usually force a lot of others to fight for them. 13:27:09 <mroman_> although attacking someone to steal resources isn't technically stupid 13:27:15 <mroman_> it's selfish :) 13:27:47 <mroman_> unless you count some forms of selfishness as stupid 13:27:50 <mroman_> (which I would) 13:27:53 <oerjan> stupid in the socratic sense 13:28:44 <mroman_> I always thought people that take the bible literally are somewhat stupid 13:28:54 <mroman_> but now I'm reading a book about the history and background of the bible 13:28:54 <oerjan> well the point of military alliances is pretty much make sure that attacking you _is_ stupid, i guess. 13:28:59 <oerjan> *+to 13:29:09 <mroman_> Yeah. 13:29:13 -!- TieSoul has joined. 13:29:26 <mroman_> It's a good strategy to scare people out of attacking you 13:29:59 <mroman_> That's what nukes are for I guess. 13:30:12 <mroman_> and bio-weapons 13:30:56 <mroman_> You could just say "Well, if you attack me I'll release this virus into the wild. It'll do a lot of damage to other countries as well but that's on you!" 13:32:14 <mroman_> oerjan: and to secure resources. 13:32:15 <oerjan> as usual, the problem is the people crazy enough to do it anyway 13:32:32 <mroman_> and trades. 13:32:35 <mroman_> Such as access to oil or so 13:32:41 <oerjan> mhm 13:33:15 <mroman_> I'm not sure why China protects North-Korea 13:33:43 <mroman_> I guess they are trading certain things that benefit both 13:34:05 <mroman_> or maybe it's just historic. 13:35:09 <mroman_> hm. Seems they use it for military purposes as well 13:35:17 <mroman_> since South Korea and the US go hand in hand. 13:35:32 <oerjan> i thought the general assumption was "because if it collapses, things will get really ugly across the border" 13:36:08 <oerjan> also, china has a lot of trade with south korea these days, so that border too 13:36:19 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:36:31 <oerjan> basically, not even south korea wants north korea to collapse these days 13:36:43 <mroman_> Of course not. 13:36:48 <mroman_> That would financially ruin them. 13:37:40 <mroman_> either that or it will become a humanitarian disaster 13:38:21 <mroman_> It might actually be better for SK if NK stays independent, poor and peaceful 13:38:53 <oerjan> i don't see why the "poor" is necessary. they could change to a more chinese model. 13:39:05 <mroman_> True. 13:39:15 <mroman_> But if they would merge now, it would cost a ton 13:40:02 <mroman_> ideally they would become democratic and remain largeley independent but become more and more open 13:40:27 <mroman_> but that takes decades 13:41:19 <mroman_> I think that was one of the strategies back in uhm 13:41:20 <mroman_> 1970? 13:42:02 <oerjan> i think the problem is too many people in north korea have blood on their hands so a non-ugly direct transition to democracy is implausible. 13:42:26 <oerjan> i 13:42:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:43:04 <oerjan> 'm also suspecting china has the same problem, to a lesser degree 13:43:14 <mroman_> But China is democratic? 13:43:22 <oerjan> ...wat 13:43:34 <mroman_> Officially 13:43:49 <ais523> it's sort-of democratic, but the government gets to choose which candidates are allowed to run 13:44:12 <oerjan> doesn't count unless you have freedom of expression enough that the dirty laundry that eventually needs to be brought out, can be 13:44:21 <mroman_> there are some sort of elections 13:44:33 <oerjan> ...north korea also has elections hth 13:44:42 <mroman_> I honestly haven't really looked that much into china's politics 13:44:48 <mroman_> I should do that. 13:44:57 <mroman_> ah 13:45:00 <mroman_> "Democratic centralism" 13:45:07 <oerjan> they even have a few tiny minority parties 13:45:32 <oerjan> both almost indinguishable from the state party, but still. 13:46:29 <mroman_> There's the Local's People Congress 13:46:33 <mroman_> which is directly elected somehow 13:46:34 <oerjan> in a direct comparison, freedom of expression is more important than democracy, i think. 13:47:25 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:47:36 <mroman_> "Independent candidates are strongly discouraged and face government intervention in their campaigns." :D 13:47:40 <mroman_> oh well 13:48:02 <b_jonas> of course. we had elections all the time even way back, if you count elections where you have only once option to tick and your vote is public. 13:48:32 <oerjan> public just in case you forgot to tick, i take 13:49:23 -!- Herbalist has joined. 13:49:23 -!- Herbalist has quit (Changing host). 13:49:23 -!- Herbalist has joined. 13:49:47 <b_jonas> then there's the opposite trick: elections where you can vote for anyone and you don't face retribution depending on your choice and the votes are secret, but they're so secret even the aggregate results are not public or used for any decision, the government just makes up results without counting the votes. 13:50:08 -!- variable has joined. 13:50:21 <oerjan> fancy 13:50:53 <b_jonas> that second trick was never fashionable here though. 13:52:07 <Jafet> It helps to use a very complicated election system to disguise this scheme. 13:52:10 <quintopia> obviously the night vale electoral system is the ideal system 13:52:11 <Jafet> Oh wait, that's just democracy. 13:53:42 <quintopia> b_jonas: here in the US conttol of elections is handed over to hackers and voting machine manufacturers 13:53:52 <quintopia> control 13:54:30 <ais523> I like the UK's method of counting ballots 13:54:37 <ais523> it's pretty hard to interfere with 13:54:43 <quintopia> i guess they figure said hackers and manufacturers couls just as easily favor either candidate, so it all comes out in the wash 13:54:54 <quintopia> could 13:59:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43346&oldid=43249 * 188.238.248.144 * (+124) /* Mathematics */ 14:07:15 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 14:11:29 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:14:48 -!- fowl has joined. 14:23:43 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 14:24:44 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 14:25:54 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 14:30:47 <mroman_> We could just toss a toin 14:31:00 <mroman_> I mean 14:31:08 <mroman_> Voting can be seen as a random process 14:31:13 <mroman_> People randomly select who wins 14:31:22 <mroman_> so why not just toss a freaking coin and save millions of dollars 14:32:43 <ais523> `quote random elephant 14:32:52 <b_jonas> mroman_: it's random of course, but it's hard to determine the probabilities in any way that many people would find as satisfying or fair 14:32:59 <HackEgo> 296) <elliott> AV is better than first-past-the-post, like every voting system apart from the Random Elephant Stomping method 14:33:00 <FreeFull> Well, voting isn't meant to be purely random 14:33:15 <b_jonas> mroman_: also, there's some science fiction story about this, isn't there? 14:33:45 <mroman_> Coins are fair. 14:33:50 <ais523> b_jonas: the only fair voting mechanism known to be completely immune to tactical voting is to count all the votes, then pick a candidate with probability equal to the proportion of the votes they got 14:33:50 <mroman_> There's usually around 50:50 chance 14:34:03 <oerjan> :t magic 14:34:04 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘magic’ 14:34:24 <ais523> I think some other functions of the number of votes work as well as identity, but identity's the easiest to prove 14:34:35 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 14:34:51 <mroman_> FreeFull: It is to an observer, or isn't it. 14:34:56 <mroman_> I know it's not random. 14:35:08 <mroman_> but for an outside obverser it's random-ish. 14:35:12 <mroman_> *observer 14:35:50 <b_jonas> ais523: it gets more complicated when you want to elect not one candidate, but a whole parliment of them 14:36:05 <mroman_> The question though remains if it would matter much if it *were* random 14:36:14 <ais523> b_jonas: I actually came up with a really good voting method for that 14:36:26 <ais523> you get each candidate to choose a location in the country at which they'll stand (just a single point) 14:36:39 <ais523> candidates can form parties if they wish 14:36:39 <mroman_> Maybe I'm just too much of an existential nihilist. 14:36:46 <ais523> people vote for parties 14:37:00 <b_jonas> mroman_: found it, the story is "Franchise" by Isaac Asimov 14:37:05 <b_jonas> http://www.asimovreviews.net/Stories/Story088.html 14:37:19 <FreeFull> mroman_: Well, if it is going to be random, you need to choose the candidates randomly from the populationtoo 14:37:28 <ais523> then you calculate a number n of votes that each seat is "worth" such that if a party gets jn votes, it gets j seats in parliament; n is as low as possible without exceeding parliament's capacity 14:37:36 <mroman_> b_jonas: Sounds like a cool plot. 14:37:45 <ais523> and the candidates you pick from each party are determined by where their highest concentrations of votes were 14:37:49 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:37:53 <ais523> (haven't worked out the details of that) 14:38:21 <mroman_> FreeFull: people vote for candidates 14:38:34 <mroman_> but the machine determines the winner randomly from the candidates 14:38:50 <mroman_> or the congress/parliament recommends candidates 14:38:54 <b_jonas> ais523: don't you have to determine goals too, as well as a method? 14:38:54 <mroman_> either way is fine 14:39:03 <mroman_> congress/parliament recommending candidates is probably cheaper 14:39:03 <ais523> then you form constituencies such that each elected member has their own consitutency, and constituencies from the same party don't overlap but from different parties do; each party's constituencies collectively cover the whole country 14:39:06 <mroman_> so I'd recommend that 14:39:06 <ais523> see, the problem is 14:39:10 <FreeFull> mroman_: That could lead to disastrous results 14:39:19 <FreeFull> What if someone like Nigel Farage becomes the head of government 14:39:24 <mroman_> FreeFull: Who's that? 14:39:27 <ais523> say you vote in an election, you might even vote for the winning side, but a candidate from the losing side wins your constituency 14:39:47 <FreeFull> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Farage 14:39:53 <mauris> mroman_: UK independence party guy 14:40:02 <ais523> in any system where each constituency has only one voter, I can contact my MP and complain about a law that's going through 14:40:16 <ais523> and they can't do anything about it because they're on the opposition and so were going to vote against anyway 14:40:52 <FreeFull> If you choose candidates from the population at random, you have a smaller chance of someone like Nigel Farage getting into a position of power 14:41:13 <mroman_> but some random guy isn't a good politician 14:41:25 <mroman_> Choosing one randomly from a congress/parliament makes more sense 14:41:44 <mroman_> Ideally the chosen person doesn't have "full power" 14:41:53 <b_jonas> FreeFull: that totally sounds like http://www.xkcd.com/977/ "You think we wouldn't have so many problems if we'd just elect _normal_ people to Congress instead of Politicians." 14:42:01 <mroman_> It's like 14:42:07 <mroman_> people vote people into congress 14:42:20 <mroman_> then you select randomly who's the president 14:42:49 <mroman_> Like um 50 people 14:42:56 <mroman_> (including the president) 14:43:00 <mroman_> but the president has 20 votes 14:43:05 <mroman_> so in total there are 69 votes 14:43:25 <mroman_> well 14:43:27 <b_jonas> no way 14:43:41 <mroman_> I like the swiss system anyway 14:43:58 <b_jonas> if you only elect 50 people, and of those, only 10 actually show up in the parliment most days, then the president can do anything 14:44:00 <mroman_> people vote people that vote for the Bundesrat and the President 14:45:11 -!- Herbalist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:45:29 <FreeFull> Don't the Swiss have a referendum for everything that's actually important? 14:45:35 <mroman_> We do. 14:45:41 <FreeFull> That sounds good 14:46:12 -!- Herbalist has joined. 14:46:20 -!- Herbalist has quit (Changing host). 14:46:20 -!- Herbalist has joined. 14:46:29 <mroman_> There's the National- and Ständerat which vote for the 7 Bundesräte 14:46:56 <mroman_> and the Räte also make laws and stuff 14:47:11 <mroman_> but you can interveine with referendums if necessary 14:47:14 <mroman_> that's a good systems 14:47:28 <mroman_> They can do stuff on their own as long as they don't mess up too much 14:47:36 <mroman_> and if they do you have some way of intervention 14:48:01 <mroman_> and if you want to change something you can use the Volksinitiative 14:48:56 <mroman_> That's why I think it's a near-perfect system as far as democracy goes 14:49:05 <mroman_> it's very democratic but not overly democratic 14:49:22 <mroman_> (overly democratic meaning people have to vote for everything, which is completely unpractical) 14:50:10 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:50:22 <mroman_> However, the downside of this system is of course, that you can vote for things like "we want no foreigners" 14:50:26 <mroman_> and if it passes, that's the way it is 14:50:43 <mroman_> democracy doesn't imply humanity. 14:51:11 <mroman_> I hate when people think that. 14:51:28 <mroman_> It's just not true. 14:51:58 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:53:55 <FreeFull> mroman_: Unfortunately, we don't have a machine that spews out perfect morally-good dictators 14:54:11 <mroman_> I'm a perfect dictator. 14:54:30 <mroman_> I'd just shoot everybody who's not on my side. 14:54:43 <mroman_> Then all votes will be correct. 14:55:00 <mroman_> No, obviously I wouldn't shoot everybody who's not on my side 14:55:16 <mroman_> Then the US would think I oppress my people 14:55:20 <mroman_> and that it's an unfair system 14:55:49 <mroman_> The idea is to be a "social dictator" 14:56:05 <mroman_> there are some ground-rules like uhm "religions have to live together" 14:56:12 <mroman_> and everybody who has a problem with that will be shot. 14:56:38 <mroman_> also every criminal will be shot. 14:56:40 <mroman_> obviously 14:56:51 <mroman_> Don't want criminals in my social country. 14:57:28 <mroman_> If you vandalise public property after an ice hockey match you will definitely be shot 14:57:48 <mroman_> If you beat up a random person you'll be shot 14:58:06 <mroman_> I call it "Peace by Force" 14:58:51 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:59:03 <mroman_> The problem is - in general - that a single person can do a lot of harm to lots of other persons. 14:59:10 <mroman_> Like if you live in a flat with flat mates 14:59:36 <mroman_> if 29 of the people you live with always clean up their dirt but one makes everything dirty on purpose 14:59:42 <mroman_> the whole flat-experience will suck 15:00:10 <mroman_> and there's no solution to that problem other than to get rid of that person who doesn't cooperate 15:00:55 <mroman_> and that's really "a truth". 15:01:29 <mroman_> The power of someone not cooperating is much higher than the power of others. 15:01:43 <mroman_> That's why society fails. 15:02:07 <mroman_> Well... not fails but is flawed the way it has to be 15:02:44 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:07:59 <MDude> But there, you have 29 people who can clean up dirt, but only clean their own. 15:08:00 <MDude> The only reason they don't clean up the one's guy's dirt just to have a cleaner flat to live in is that they see this as attracting freeloaders. 15:09:05 <MDude> Which it does, but still I think it should be taken into consideration as a factor. 15:09:19 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 15:10:35 <MDude> The thing with having such harsh laws is that it gives enforcers and loxal beurocrats a lot of power to get people killed. 15:10:39 <hppavilion1> Hello peoples 15:10:48 <MDude> Hi hppavillion 15:10:56 <hppavilion1> Hi! 15:12:26 <hppavilion1> MOAR MARKUP 15:12:28 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:13:41 <hppavilion1> Hi ais523 15:13:46 <ais523> hi 15:15:02 <hppavilion1> I'm trying to figure out how to make an esoteric Befunge-style Markup language 15:15:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ttml]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43347&oldid=41901 * 107.77.85.48 * (+31) EsoMULang Category 15:15:41 <hppavilion1> Oops 15:15:43 <hppavilion1> Wasn't logged in 15:18:41 <hppavilion1> So 15:18:56 <hppavilion1> I managed to make a Turing-complete Markup Languag 15:18:56 <hppavilion1> e 15:18:57 <hppavilion1> Don't see that every day 15:19:19 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:20:59 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:23:07 -!- Herbalist has joined. 15:23:20 -!- staffehn has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 15:23:27 -!- staffehn has joined. 15:27:41 <mroman_> MDude: That's true. 15:27:58 <mroman_> but the fact is still, that one person can significantly ruin the other 29 people's live 15:28:02 <mroman_> and he can do so very easily 15:28:29 <mroman_> or somebody who rapes one person a month 15:28:39 <mroman_> he can make a lot of people's live worse 15:29:02 <mroman_> one single person can have a much higher negativ impact than many people can have a positive impact. 15:30:51 -!- staffehn has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 15:31:07 -!- staffehn has joined. 15:35:08 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:45:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:00:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 16:14:12 <MDude> Yeah, bit I don't see how a dictator is any better at solving that problem than mob rule. 16:15:22 <MDude> Plus there's other ways in which it takes only one person to make a positive impact. 16:16:51 <b_jonas> a dictatorship would work, it's just hard to figure out who should be the dictator that would make it work 16:17:03 <b_jonas> it won't work for most people chosen as a dictator 16:19:00 <MDude> It could work, but I don't see how it'd be ideal. 16:20:05 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:20:23 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:22:40 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:36:44 -!- Herbalist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:38:33 -!- Herbalist has joined. 16:40:22 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:41:23 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:45:53 -!- password2 has joined. 16:46:08 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 16:46:55 -!- password2 has joined. 16:48:45 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 16:50:46 <Jafet> Long-standing dictatorships, such as Singapore. 16:50:56 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:52:49 <coppro> dictatorships are easy 16:52:54 <coppro> like Vetinari x Vimes. done 16:55:40 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:56:56 <FreeFull> We don't have a Vetinari or Vimes 16:58:52 <b_jonas> FreeFull: how do you know? Vimes has worked on an important mission in incognito at least once. 16:59:12 -!- gamemanj has joined. 17:03:48 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:10:00 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:10:50 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:11:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 17:13:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:27:01 -!- Herbalist has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 17:30:35 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:31:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:31:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 17:31:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:40:49 -!- password2 has changed nick to password3. 17:41:45 -!- nycs has joined. 17:42:35 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:43:43 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:44:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:47:16 -!- password3 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:52:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:57:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:08:06 -!- zadock has joined. 18:16:07 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:28:36 -!- mihow has joined. 18:28:37 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:34:54 <shachaf> `olist 992 18:34:55 <HackEgo> olist 992: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 18:39:48 -!- Melvar` has joined. 18:39:57 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:41:07 -!- idris-bot has joined. 18:41:34 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 18:42:23 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:50:38 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:51:49 -!- mihow has joined. 18:54:59 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBS). 19:12:37 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:13:29 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 19:17:50 -!- paul2520 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:19:00 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:22:41 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:31:04 -!- nortti has changed nick to lirael. 19:31:14 -!- lirael has changed nick to nortti. 19:48:28 -!- atrapado has joined. 19:51:00 -!- atrapa has joined. 19:51:12 -!- atrapado has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:51:22 -!- atrapa has changed nick to atrapado. 19:51:32 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:53:35 -!- zadock has joined. 19:57:48 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:58:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 19:58:35 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 19:58:42 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 20:00:04 -!- atrapado has joined. 20:32:42 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:32:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:42:47 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 20:44:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:56:40 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:00:37 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:02:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:06:37 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:10:03 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:26:05 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 21:32:37 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:32:53 <shachaf> where is fizzie tdnh 21:36:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:39:43 -!- mihow has joined. 21:39:44 <tswett> `? tdnh 21:39:45 <HackEgo> tdnh does not help 21:39:52 <tswett> I dunno. 21:41:07 <shachaf> tswett does not help 21:41:19 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:42:52 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:43:17 <tswett> All right, time to start working on this operating system. 21:43:26 <tswett> This kernel, rather. 21:43:34 <tswett> Written, of course, in Rust. 21:46:52 -!- tromp_ has joined. 21:48:26 <tswett> There, I have a file called libkernel.so. 21:50:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:03:56 -!- boily has joined. 22:07:49 <oerjan> eyliob 22:08:40 <boily> bonajreour! 22:09:23 <shachaf> hi y'all 22:10:08 <oerjan> llewerafahcahs 22:10:36 <shachaf> ? 22:11:02 * oerjan leaves shachaf to ponder 22:11:17 <shachaf> presumably it means something like shachaf are well 22:11:23 <shachaf> but what do wells have to do with it 22:11:35 <oerjan> you have to dig deeper hth 22:12:07 <shachaf> @brain are you pondering what i'm pondering? 22:12:07 <lambdabot> What can I do for fun, Pinky? That's it! I'll send several 22:12:07 <lambdabot> bills to Senate for ratification, then veto them all! 22:12:21 <shachaf> hmm 22:12:27 <shachaf> @pinky are you pondering what i'm pondering? 22:12:27 <lambdabot> I think so, Brain, but don't you need a swimming pool to play Marco Polo? 22:13:14 <shachaf> oerjan: help 22:14:43 <oerjan> it's a uaetnamtrop hth 22:15:46 <shachaf> the contortions you're observing are oerjan trying to be helpful without actually giving a straight answer 22:16:03 <oerjan> shocking 22:16:18 <shachaf> or maybe trying to give a straight answer without actually being helpful 22:16:19 <shachaf> hard to tell 22:16:33 <shachaf> anyway what happened to saying hi 22:16:48 <oerjan> shachaf: generally in our channel at least one letter is shared between the words hth 22:17:04 <oerjan> shachaf: saying hi is so 2013 22:17:19 <shachaf> oerjan: yes yes i understood 22:17:23 <shachaf> but i don't get it 22:17:31 <shachaf> that word usually means the opposite of hi 22:17:38 <shachaf> are you hinting that i should leave or that you're leaving 22:17:45 <oerjan> which is why it's written backwards hth 22:18:48 <shachaf> boily: can you mapole some sense into oerjan twh 22:18:55 <oerjan> just watch the red dwarf "backwards" episode, that should make everything clear hth 22:19:58 <oerjan> experience shows that beating sense into me only works very temporarily hth 22:20:28 <oerjan> (this also applies to admonitions) 22:22:56 <boily> shachaf: don't mind if I do. 22:23:10 * boily elopams oerjan 22:23:38 * oerjan temporarily turns into an absolute jerk 22:23:52 <boily> AAAAAAAAAH! 22:24:01 * boily mapole mapole mapole. "ABORT! ABORT!" 22:24:19 <oerjan> a mapole double negation 22:24:36 <oerjan> basically, reversing the mapolarity 22:25:17 <shachaf> <GUIL> I think I have it. A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself. <ROS> Or just as mad. <GUIL> Or just as mad. <ROS> And he does both. <GUIL> So there are you. <ROS> Stark raving sane. 22:26:07 <oerjan> why should i take advice from dead people tmns 22:26:20 <shachaf> `? tmns 22:26:21 <HackEgo> tmns? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:26:32 <shachaf> oh, that makes no sense 22:26:38 <oerjan> `learn tmns makes no sense. 22:26:38 <shachaf> to be distinguished from tmnh, that might not help 22:26:41 <HackEgo> Learned 'tmn': tmns makes no sense. 22:26:48 <oerjan> ...hm 22:27:07 <shachaf> `` mv wisdom/tmn{,s} 22:27:09 <HackEgo> No output. 22:28:20 <oerjan> `learn tmnh stands for teenage mutant ninja hths. 22:28:22 <HackEgo> Learned 'tmnh': tmnh stands for teenage mutant ninja hths. 22:28:26 -!- zzo38 has left. 22:28:32 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:28:38 <zzo38> You should fix `learn command don't remove the "s" it can cause problems 22:29:20 <oerjan> zzo38: no it's a feature so you can look up either singular or plural. 22:30:04 <tswett> `? tmns 22:30:05 <HackEgo> tmns makes no sense. 22:30:12 <zzo38> That isn't even the way to do plurals though, it is oversimply, and just because end with "s" doesn't make it a plural either 22:30:36 <oerjan> zzo38: the problem is there is no regular rule in more complicated cases 22:30:54 <zzo38> Yes, you have to do it manually instead 22:30:55 <shachaf> what if everyone just used le/rn 22:30:57 <oerjan> zzo38: it's a heuristic rule, most of the time it works right. 22:31:16 <oerjan> sometimes it doesn't, but that would be the case the other way too. 22:31:28 <zzo38> But there is a more complicated algorithm that work better to convert singular to plurals; other way around don't work so well at all 22:32:23 <oerjan> but then we'd have to rename all the wisdoms. 22:32:25 <zzo38> Even with a database you won't be able to tell if the word is already in plural format or not, and if so, what the proper singular form is. 22:32:36 <oerjan> and it would break for uncountable nouns. 22:33:03 <oerjan> also it's not meant to be perfect. 22:33:13 <boily> fungot should be able to tell us if a word is singular, dual or plural. 22:33:28 <boily> just my luck. Sir Fungellot is still MIA... 22:33:50 <oerjan> basically, `learn attempts to reduce the chance i need to fix up other people's mistakes. 22:46:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PHOTOGENIC CHICKEN). 22:51:37 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:53:23 <tswett> I'm just gonna, like, assume that rustc is producing code that can run on bare metal. 22:54:40 <oerjan> it might not necessarily be good for the metal. 22:59:32 <tswett> Quite. 23:21:55 -!- gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:24:23 -!- gde33 has joined. 23:29:59 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:30:24 -!- mihow has joined. 23:31:26 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 23:35:37 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:53:52 <tswett> All right. I have a feeling that generally you can't or shouldn't use a linker on .so files. 23:56:14 -!- mihow has joined. 2015-06-30: 00:03:50 -!- lemurian has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:09:46 <tswett> Arright, now rustc is giving me a .a file instead of a .so file. 00:10:36 <tswett> But the linker complains that it can't find the boot_main symbol, and sure enough, there's no boot_main symbol inside the kernel.o in the .a file. 00:19:05 <tswett> Wooooo. I think I probably got it to find boot_main, because now it's outputting too many error messages to fit in my backscroll. 00:38:28 <shachaf> `wisdom tdnh 00:38:36 <HackEgo> glumgot/glumgot is not a particularly bad swear word, but is still disquieting. 00:53:40 <tswett> `? tdnh 00:53:41 <HackEgo> tdnh does not help 00:53:43 <tswett> `wisdom 00:53:44 <HackEgo> flagpole/A flagpole is like a tadpole, but with a flag on top. 00:53:51 <tswett> `? mapole 00:53:53 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. 00:54:15 <tswett> `? thwackamacallit 00:54:15 <HackEgo> A thwackamacallit is like a whatchamacallit, but more painful. See mapole. 00:54:21 <tswett> `? whatchamacallit 00:54:22 <HackEgo> whatchamacallit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:54:49 <tswett> `le/rn whatchamacallit/A whatchamacallit is like a thwackamacallit, but less painful. 00:54:53 <HackEgo> Learned «whatchamacallit» 00:59:27 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 01:08:01 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:11:30 -!- boily has joined. 01:11:37 <shachaf> `wisdom dnh 01:11:39 <HackEgo> eliot/Eliot inverted cats, then Taneb stole his inversion. 01:12:05 <shachaf> tswett: too much symmetry tdnh 01:12:52 <tswett> Well, "is like" is a symmetric relation, and "more" and "less" are inverse relations. 01:13:20 <tswett> Hm, last night I think I was thinking about... the... category of commutative monoids? 01:13:48 <tswett> For that category, the sum and the product are the same thing, right? 01:19:22 -!- variable has joined. 01:20:24 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 01:21:42 <zzo38> I don't know? 01:27:28 -!- llue has joined. 01:27:38 -!- paul2520 has joined. 01:30:39 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:39:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 01:43:54 <oren> well, that was productive day... spent half the day struggling to get a VPN to connect 01:44:46 <Wallacoloo> We've all been there oren. 01:44:56 <Wallacoloo> I spent my entire Tuesday trying to get an LED to turn on. 01:49:31 <boily> have you tried turning it off and on again? 01:49:49 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:51:08 <oren> well eventually it worked, I think they may have had to reboot the other end, in California 01:51:35 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TRISKELION CHICKEN). 01:51:45 <oren> or something. Someone in California solved it, at any rate 01:58:24 <Sgeo> I saw a thing about branch prediction, what's the best thing to learn to learn about things like that 02:09:11 <zzo38> Enchanted creature gets -1/+2, can block any number of creatures, and gains "At the beginning of your upkeep, target opponent draws a card". 02:35:57 <zzo38> I read in some book recently they mentioned they could make computers that are next to each other to communicate by temperatures. 02:39:33 <Wallacoloo> zzo38: seems like there would be quite a bit of latency. 02:40:11 -!- staffehn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:44:57 -!- ethiraric has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1). 02:48:29 -!- staffehn has joined. 02:50:25 <tswett> Whelp, my kernel doesn't boot yet. 02:50:38 <tswett> I can tell qemu to boot using this ISO, but it says it has no bootable media. 02:57:52 <tswett> xorriso says that it's an El Torito image. 03:01:36 <tswett> Wait a minute. 03:01:39 <tswett> "xorriso : NOTE : Detected El-Torito boot information which currently is set to be discarded" 03:01:43 <tswett> Interesante. 03:06:47 <zzo38> I don't know if the problem might have to do with extension for threading discussions? (I don't like that extension anyways and just use plain MediaWiki on my own user talk page) 03:06:52 -!- zzo38 has left. 03:13:44 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:22:32 <Sgeo> Fun fact: Windows 95 CD is not bootable 03:22:59 <Sgeo> Fun fact: I would insert a factorial function here, but that joke is probably overplayed 03:23:07 <Wallacoloo> Sgeo: What are you supposed to do with the CD then? 03:23:25 <Sgeo> Wallacoloo, run setup.exe from an existing DOS install 03:28:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Ttml]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43348 * Zzo38 * (+127) Created page with "What is the codes of Greek, Cyrillic, math symbols? --~~~~" 03:33:28 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:37:47 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:43:19 -!- hilquias has joined. 03:59:13 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:00:41 <shachaf> hikhq 04:00:56 <shachaf> Did you solve the VPN problem in California today? 04:01:17 <pikhq> No, I'm still in St Louis. 04:01:27 <pikhq> A storm killed my cable modem. 04:06:48 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:08:02 -!- |f`-`|f has joined. 04:12:01 -!- password2 has joined. 04:20:20 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:37:39 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:50:21 -!- password2 has joined. 04:54:28 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:09:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43349&oldid=43339 * Esowiki201529A * (+30) /* See also */ 05:14:20 <fowl> pikhq im in north county, dem nados went just south of us 05:15:25 <pikhq> fowl: And I'm in South County, where they went just north of us. 05:24:38 -!- vodkode has joined. 05:26:54 <zzo38> Probably the same things done with Gentzen esolang you can also do by writing it like ordinary sequent calculus notations. But, it is also can be done other way around too. 05:39:58 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:42:34 <shachaf> oerjan: whoa whoa whoa 05:42:44 <shachaf> oerjan: i missed yesterday 05:43:37 -!- vodkode has left ("Leaving"). 05:45:47 <shachaf> oerjan: you got away with it this year 05:57:54 -!- Walpurgisnacht has joined. 05:58:20 <Walpurgisnacht> Why doesnt sir Fungellot fnord 06:01:45 <zzo38> Because it doesn't. 06:12:49 -!- Walpurgisnacht has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:16:52 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:19:30 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 06:38:33 -!- hilquias` has joined. 06:40:35 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 06:40:59 -!- hilquias has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:52:35 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:56:30 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 07:36:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:38:41 * Taneb hello 07:49:10 <Taneb> Awww, there is no fungot 07:59:51 <int-e> again! 08:00:17 <Taneb> Wow, I haven;t been on IRC for a while 08:00:22 <Taneb> Not since last Friday morning I think 08:01:42 <int-e> so how much have you forgotten? 08:02:25 <Taneb> How to speak italian, how to get a good night sleep, that sort of thing 08:02:31 <Taneb> Also the weather here is TOO NICE 08:02:58 <Taneb> It is 5 past nine in the morning and already 21 degrees Celsius! 08:26:50 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:33:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:34:13 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:44:30 -!- x10A94 has joined. 08:48:44 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 08:51:39 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:02:00 <mroman_> fnord 09:06:34 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 09:20:29 <b_jonas> `fromroman LXXXVIII 09:20:38 <HackEgo> 88 09:20:46 <b_jonas> [ >:88 09:20:47 <j-bot> b_jonas: 89 09:20:51 <b_jonas> `toroman 89 09:20:52 <HackEgo> LXXXIX 09:21:39 <mroman_> hm. 09:21:44 <mroman_> Compress roman numerals 09:21:51 <mroman_> that could be a good challenge :) 09:22:04 <b_jonas> mroman_: you mean golf? we've had two or three golfs for that 09:22:08 <b_jonas> I can give you pointers 09:24:58 <Taneb> Is "delete" a reserved word in Java? 09:36:38 <b_jonas> dunno, I don't do java 09:37:35 <mroman_> Taneb: no 09:37:40 <Taneb> OK 09:37:42 <Taneb> Hmm 09:38:30 <mroman_> const and goto are reserved words 09:38:34 <mroman_> but they have no function 09:38:50 <mroman_> assert is not a reserved word in early java versions but is in current version 09:38:55 <mroman_> as is striftpf and others 09:38:57 <b_jonas> "delete" is a reserved word in C++, "del" is a reserved word in python, and "delete" is a builtin function in perl. 09:38:59 <mroman_> *strictfp 09:39:30 <mroman_> Early java versions didn't have enum as well 09:39:44 <mroman_> so boolean enum = false; 09:39:50 <b_jonas> but the "delete" stuff is very tricky, exactly because of what http://magiccards.info/uh/en/10.html demonstrates 09:40:24 <b_jonas> it's a word you need very often, for multiple contexts. there's two or three good synonyms: "delete", "remove", "erase", but even that's not enough 09:40:59 <Taneb> Unfortunately, it is a reserved word in Thrift, which I am using to generate Java :( 09:41:02 <b_jonas> so C++ has sort of ran out of them and is now using "remove" for I think two different things, "erase" for two different things, and "delete" for one thing 09:41:52 <b_jonas> actually, maybe "remove" for three different things 09:43:10 <b_jonas> they're also using "clog" for two things but that's not because they've run out of names, but an accident of history, with the two being invented separately and later getting into one language 09:43:19 <b_jonas> and it's now too late to change either 10:18:09 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 10:25:57 <Taneb> `unidecode R 10:25:58 <HackEgo> ​[U+0052 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER R] 10:26:01 -!- boily has joined. 10:26:01 <Taneb> Hmm 10:26:06 <boily> Hmm? 10:26:08 <Taneb> `unidecode nR 10:26:09 <HackEgo> ​[U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+0052 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER R] 10:26:11 <Taneb> HMMM 10:26:21 <boily> HMMM??? 10:29:06 <Taneb> Oh, I am wrong 10:38:39 <Taneb> I... actually don't know what I was doing wrong 10:38:53 <Taneb> A find tool was breaking on the sequence nR until it wasn't 11:09:10 <boily> meanwhile, CAO is down. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 11:09:31 <Taneb> :O 11:09:37 <Taneb> (what is CAO?) 11:09:58 <Taneb> (Ctrl Alt Oxygen? Cards Against O'Reilly?) 11:10:14 <boily> Crawl Akrasiac Org. 11:10:24 <Taneb> What is that 11:10:25 <Taneb> ? 11:10:33 <boily> the North American server for DCSS. 11:10:42 <Taneb> DCSS? 11:10:47 <boily> Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. 11:10:50 <Taneb> Ah 11:14:24 <boily> `wisdom 11:14:25 <HackEgo> boredom/A boredom is like a kingdom, except ruled by a bore. They don't tend to last very long before people revolt. 11:14:47 <Taneb> `wisdom 11:14:50 <HackEgo> ​$1?/$1? ��\(��_o)/�� 11:14:55 <Taneb> :O 11:15:00 <Taneb> `? lunch 11:15:01 <HackEgo> lunch? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:17:30 <int-e> wait, what's happening to the encoding there? 11:21:16 <boily> `? $1 11:21:17 <HackEgo> ​$1? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:21:19 <boily> `? $1? 11:21:20 <HackEgo> ​$1? ��\(��_o)/�� 11:21:39 <boily> hmm... I believe ‘$1?’ is special-cased. 11:28:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MILDEW CHICKEN). 11:54:44 <b_jonas> argh, I'm trying to figure out a sane way to write this code 11:54:58 <Taneb> b_jonas, what language 11:55:04 <b_jonas> a way that won't trip me up later with mysterious undebuggable errors 11:55:06 <b_jonas> in C++ 11:55:15 <Taneb> b_jonas, what code? 11:55:19 <b_jonas> I know what I want, I just have to get the basics right 11:55:31 <b_jonas> some stupid wrapper class that abstracts some existing library into saner syntax 11:55:42 <b_jonas> only it's not just one class, but multiple classes 12:12:42 -!- APic\splat has changed nick to APic. 12:27:52 -!- nys has joined. 12:30:47 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:39:36 * Taneb is making progress aaaah 12:46:42 <b_jonas> I am too, only too slowly 12:54:05 <int-e> > 1 12:54:06 <lambdabot> 1 12:55:12 -!- mauris has joined. 13:01:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[PokéArena]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43350&oldid=15159 * LegionMammal978 * (+20) This is an idea... 13:03:07 <b_jonas> no, more like > epsilon progress 13:03:15 <b_jonas> I'd be happy with > 1 13:03:25 <b_jonas> because of Archimedean and stuff 13:03:26 <Taneb> Incidentally, I am working with something called Epsilon 13:10:17 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 13:21:37 <b_jonas> ok, should I do this the ugly but short way, or the more explicit but longer way? 13:23:46 <b_jonas> I'll do it the uglier way 13:27:24 -!- variable has joined. 13:41:02 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:41:11 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:46:16 <Taneb> Right, I have accomplished another task and I do not know what to do now 13:47:43 <Taneb> Hmm, what should I have for dinner 13:54:51 -!- fungot has joined. 13:57:28 <fizzie> I suggest ice. 13:57:45 <fizzie> fungot: Why must you keep pinging the timeout? 13:58:18 <fungot> fizzie: http://www.schemers.org/ documents/ standards/ r5rs/ html/ fnord example works perfectly well in 0.57. you said: " error: too many levels of braces 13:58:21 <mroman_> b_jonas: on anagol? 14:00:02 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 14:00:35 <mroman_> Probably for large numbers just converting them to the usual 10 digits is probably already a compression scheme for roman numerals 14:01:27 <b_jonas> mroman_: no 14:01:30 <b_jonas> not anagol 14:01:33 <b_jonas> for serious purposes 14:01:47 <b_jonas> on anagol, I'd always choose the shorter but uglier way 14:01:49 <Taneb> b_jonas, I think mroman_ is talking about the roman numeral things 14:01:53 <b_jonas> oh 14:02:00 <b_jonas> I don't know about whether it's on anagol 14:02:27 <mroman_> No, I was talking about "a compression" challenge 14:02:31 <mroman_> not a "golfing" challenge 14:02:50 <mroman_> That's at least what I intended to talk about 14:11:57 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 14:24:57 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Make sure to clean your computer's ghost filter.). 14:25:11 -!- zadock has joined. 14:32:00 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:45:19 -!- zadock has joined. 14:47:29 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 14:47:39 <hppavilion1> IRC 14:47:43 <hppavilion1> I'm Hoo---oooom 14:47:44 <hppavilion1> e' 14:47:46 <hppavilion1> *e 14:55:02 <hppavilion1> Fine 14:55:06 <hppavilion1> No one wants to talk 14:55:07 <hppavilion1> Bai 14:55:10 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:02:45 <mroman_> @tell hppavilion1 You can always talk to fungot 15:02:45 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 15:02:47 <fungot> mroman_: oh wait, does that count?). i don't 15:03:01 <mroman_> fungot: No it doesn't count. What about 'or'? 15:03:13 <fungot> mroman_: where do people get off saying such things? :) ( of course, once you know programming languages where (: and :) are language tokens? can't remember. it was accessible in movie clips too. with sp2 15:03:43 <mroman_> fungot: You really need to leak more details about 'or'. 15:04:11 <fungot> mroman_: make some proggies ( read: googled for " stwong" but the zombies said " yes yes" 15:04:32 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:37:34 -!- atrapado has joined. 15:47:00 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 15:56:31 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 16:30:42 -!- password2 has joined. 16:49:17 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 17:02:02 -!- x10A94 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:03:07 -!- x10A94 has joined. 17:05:46 -!- x10A94 has quit (Client Quit). 17:08:15 -!- x10A94 has joined. 17:11:18 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:13:52 <zzo38> Isn't (: and :) are tokens in Kvikkalkul? 17:34:46 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:37:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:55:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:03:38 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:11:37 -!- mihow has joined. 18:30:45 -!- nys has joined. 18:31:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:33:18 <tswett> Whelp, I'm pretty sure my kernel has not started booting while I was asleep. 18:33:50 -!- Wright has joined. 18:35:58 <coppro> damn 18:38:42 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BRB). 18:42:23 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 18:43:06 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:43:10 -!- mihow has joined. 18:45:51 <shachaf> helloerjan 18:46:00 <oerjan> hichaf 18:46:25 -!- atrapado has joined. 18:46:26 <shachaf> fateful day a couple of days ago 18:46:29 <oerjan> thanks for remembering 18:46:35 <tswett> Heveryonello. 18:46:38 <shachaf> oerjan: :'( 18:46:44 <oerjan> i got chocolate cake! 18:46:52 <oerjan> shachaf: hey no one else here did hth 18:46:53 <tswett> What, Obergefell v. Hodges? 18:47:03 <oerjan> no, that was 4 days 18:47:46 <oerjan> although relatedly, i was born on the first anniversary of the stonewall riots 18:48:06 <Taneb> oerjan, awww, did I miss oerjanday? 18:48:31 <oerjan> indeed 18:48:35 <Taneb> :( 18:48:42 <oerjan> i was visited by family, so didn't log on much 18:48:57 <Taneb> Come to York and I will buy you a drink or something 18:49:56 <oerjan> somewhat unlikely, but thanks 18:51:03 <oerjan> those supreme court judges don't understand timing, clearly they should have waited 2 more days. 18:52:24 -!- singingboyo has joined. 18:52:26 <shachaf> what was wrong with their timing 18:52:43 <Taneb> shachaf, just missed the anniversary of stonewall 18:52:52 <oerjan> shachaf: imagine if the gays could have celebrated stonewall and obergefell v. hodges on the same day 18:53:16 <Taneb> And bi people etc 18:53:23 <oerjan> although, easy solution, just make it a 3-day celebration 18:53:38 <oerjan> Taneb: sorry, only thought of that after pressing return 18:54:46 <shachaf> well the whole parade thing was in sf two days later 18:55:01 -!- FreeFull has quit. 18:55:10 <shachaf> so there was plenty of celebrating hth 18:55:16 <Taneb> London Pride was around the same time too 18:55:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:55:27 <shachaf> http://www.theonion.com/article/supreme-court-rules-favor-most-buck-wild-pride-par-50768 18:56:56 <oerjan> hm seems the festival is on a close weekend 18:58:16 <oerjan> but this day it fell on the actual stonewall date 18:58:17 -!- singingboyo has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:58:19 <oerjan> *year 18:58:25 -!- singingboyo has joined. 19:00:07 -!- singingboyo has quit (Client Quit). 19:01:00 -!- singingboyo has joined. 19:01:42 -!- singingboyo has quit (Client Quit). 19:02:03 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 19:02:26 -!- singingboyo has joined. 19:02:43 <zzo38> Now in Dungeons&Dragons game we entered an underground city and a wizard made most of us invisible. But, I have to figure out what to do, considering what kind of thing can remove the invisibility: the spell expires, attacking, anti-magic field. A bit like a game or correspondence chess we have a lot of time to figure out the plan, but unlike in chess you can't do in between each individual move 19:03:39 <oerjan> clearly you should hold an aberration pride parade hth 19:03:46 <Taneb> zzo38, did I tell you that in the 4th ed game I am in we are hiding in a ship that was meant as our own decoy 19:03:58 <zzo38> Any kind of parade might result in too much attention 19:04:17 <zzo38> Taneb: I think you did 19:04:43 <Taneb> Basically because the party's wizard is a very stubborn character 19:04:51 -!- singingboyo has quit (Client Quit). 19:05:04 <Taneb> It is fun 19:05:35 <zzo38> In a game I am in though I exploded a ship with their own explosives before they could reach our ship 19:05:48 <Taneb> The 5th ed game I am in, we did an encounter too quickly (in sticking-to-the-story terms) because the DM forgot that 2/3 of the party has night vision 19:07:47 <b_jonas> abberation pride parade hehe 19:08:08 <zzo38> Such a parade doesn't even make much sense, and even if it did it probably won't work 19:08:35 <shachaf> Taneb: if you come visit berkeley i will buy you a drink or something 19:08:43 <shachaf> but most likely something, rather than a drink 19:08:48 <shachaf> unless you're really into drinks 19:08:50 <b_jonas> sure, it would probably not be a good idea for sneaking in a city invisible 19:08:59 <Taneb> shachaf, actually I am just kind of thirsty right now 19:09:14 -!- singingboyo has joined. 19:09:52 -!- singingboyo has quit (Client Quit). 19:10:05 -!- singingboyo has joined. 19:10:18 <zzo38> At least, not at first. But if the situation can be made to allow such a bit unusual thing to work might result in the correct kind of distraction. That would require a lot of setting up though, and require events to come out in a certain way, which is probably not what will happen. 19:11:12 <Taneb> We also had our plans to blow up a bank foiled when the bank blew up 19:11:48 <zzo38> O, OK 19:11:49 -!- mihow has joined. 19:12:00 <zzo38> I don't expect I ever have needed or would need to blow up a bank though 19:12:50 <Taneb> We were planning on framing it on one of the empires who are chasing after us 19:16:06 <b_jonas> "one of the empires who are chasing after us" sounds funny 19:16:40 <Taneb> b_jonas, I have ended up with a magical superweapon attached to me 19:16:48 <b_jonas> oh great, I need one more series of classes 19:16:52 <b_jonas> um 19:16:54 <b_jonas> as in, C++ classes 19:17:29 <Taneb> Which is much desired by various nations 19:17:34 <Taneb> We are headed to another continent 19:18:13 <b_jonas> I see 19:20:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Noisett]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43351&oldid=43326 * EmptyJL * (-3) 19:21:28 <oerjan> <Taneb> It is 5 past nine in the morning and already 21 degrees Celsius! <-- i take it you're already on another continent 19:21:46 <zzo38> The invisibility probably will not last long enough, therefore requiring hiding and sneaky and so on 19:21:48 <Taneb> oerjan, I continue to be in York 19:22:01 <oerjan> Taneb: impossible! 19:22:11 <oerjan> england is known to be always cold and wet hth 19:22:27 <Taneb> oerjan, didn't you hear that Yorkshire declared independence 19:22:35 <oerjan> ah 19:23:40 <Taneb> istr if Yorkshire was independent it would have been in the top 10 in the 2012 olympics 19:25:34 <oerjan> fancy 19:26:08 <oerjan> i think that might apply to trøndelag in the winter games 19:26:37 <Taneb> So trøndelag is the yorkshire of Norway? 19:26:46 <oerjan> possibly 19:26:58 <oerjan> i'm not entirely sure what a yorkshire of norway would be 19:27:14 * Taneb --> somewhere maybe cooler 19:27:16 <oerjan> (since i'm not entirely sure what a yorkshire of england is) 19:27:24 <shachaf> Taneb: there's nowhere cooler than #esoteric hth 19:27:34 <zzo38> The guards suggested to our two visible people (two generic human soldiers and therefore no problem to be seen and not recognized) to leave by the west passage (we entered through the north passage), but we can't because one of our party has been left behind to guard the entrance so we have to go back that way 19:27:36 <Taneb> shachaf, I meant in temperature 19:27:43 <shachaf> oerjan: the yorkshire of england is yorkshire hth 19:27:45 <Taneb> It is too warm 19:27:56 <oerjan> shachaf: tdnh 19:28:05 <shachaf> ydnh 19:28:16 <zzo38> This city is also very large and may take a long time to find something. Making it too dark, waiting for nightfall, whatever, might help too though, if we can figure out how is best way 19:29:48 <zzo38> When you have not only a system of two factions against each other, but rather *five*, with complicated relations, this makes it much more confusing. 19:35:52 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:41:23 <oerjan> `? $1? 19:41:32 <HackEgo> ​$1? ��\(��_o)/�� 19:41:43 <oerjan> `ls wisdom/$1? 19:41:45 <HackEgo> wisdom/$1? 19:41:54 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/$1? 19:41:55 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 Bike 19:42:09 <oerjan> `url wisdom/$1? 19:42:10 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/%241%3F 19:43:01 <oerjan> wtf 19:43:15 <oerjan> where art thou, bike 19:44:32 <oerjan> `` echo -n 'hm... '; \? '$1?' 19:44:58 <HackEgo> hm... $1? ��\(��_o)/�� 19:45:06 <oerjan> ok that didn't help 19:45:58 <oerjan> (that prevents HackEgo's zero-width space) 19:49:03 <shachaf> wait, wasn't "nitia" one of Bike's old nicks? 19:49:16 <oerjan> wat 19:49:34 <shachaf> Yes! 19:49:42 <shachaf> Bike went by Nitya 19:49:51 <shachaf> that's why I thought it was familiar tdnh 19:50:16 <shachaf> s/I/i/ 19:50:19 <oerjan> oh dear, bike has been absorbed into HackEgo's database 19:50:29 <oerjan> that explains why we haven't seen him 20:58:15 -!- mauris_ has joined. 21:01:47 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:02:12 <shachaf> mauris_: what happened to your old nick? 21:03:40 <mauris_> my irl first name got freed up on freenode's nickserv! that's an opportunity too good to pass up 21:03:43 -!- mauris_ has changed nick to mauris. 21:04:10 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:04:11 <shachaf> that's how i chose my nick too 21:04:19 <shachaf> but i thought your first name was nooooooooodl? 21:04:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:04:44 <mauris> now i'm in this cool club with you, oerjan, elliott (rip), maybe other people here 21:04:52 <mauris> if only 21:05:15 <mauris> changing my first name to nooodl to make up for "mauris" already being taken on freenode would have been a very good alternative 21:05:33 <shachaf> mauris: Like ingy.net did 21:05:55 <shachaf> Changing his name to match his domain name. 21:06:48 <mauris> that is a pretty good name 21:07:41 <mauris> but a pretty horrible looking website 21:08:56 <mauris> oh it's font-family: fantasy; 21:09:18 <mauris> a very good CSS feature "i don't care what font shows up here, as long as it's ugly" 21:09:32 <pikhq> font-family: eyerape; 21:12:40 <zzo38> My own opinion is it should simply be two choices: fixed-pitch or don't-care 21:13:25 <zzo38> With also an optional language parameter, so that it can select a font suitable for that language if needed 21:15:22 <pikhq> zzo38: There *is* a language parameter, lang: 21:15:22 <b_jonas> I'm writing scary overoptimized code 21:15:52 <zzo38> Yes, I am just saying the font should only be decided by the language, heading level, and one flag to tell whether or not fixpitch is needed 21:16:15 <pikhq> Unfortunately there's a couple other attributes that are appropriate, depending on the language. 21:17:01 <zzo38> Other parameter needed though are to specify emphasis or not 21:17:44 <b_jonas> zzo38: right, and the language parameter probably only has about four meaningful bits that are in common use (russian vs serbian; turkish vs anything else; cjk style) 21:17:45 <pikhq> serif vs. sans serif for Western scripts, Mincho vs. Gothic for East Asian... 21:18:18 <zzo38> Serif/sans-serif/etc should be decided by the client's options instead 21:18:47 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, teh sans-serif font I set up in my browser is actually a serif font 21:18:58 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:19:03 <pikhq> b_jonas: There's more linguistic variety in rendering than that. For instance, whether or not certain ligatures should be used is language-specific. 21:19:18 <b_jonas> pikhq: can you give examples? 21:19:39 <b_jonas> there may be other varieties, in which case I'd like to know about them 21:21:15 <pikhq> (though minor) German does not traditionally have an "ffl" ligature. 21:21:44 <b_jonas> ok... 21:21:55 -!- atrapado has joined. 21:22:39 <b_jonas> IMO, in most fonts, the fi and fl ligatures are actually VERY ugly, made to differ a lot from separate fi or fl letters because an fi ligature is somehow the mark of professionalism 21:22:40 <pikhq> In Roman alphabet text you're not going to find huge such varieties; the more common distinction is whether or not a given glyph is considered a ligature or a letter. 21:23:05 <b_jonas> most fonts either shouldn't have an fi or fl ligature at all, or should have one that looks almost the same as the two letters rendered separately 21:23:25 <b_jonas> (possibly after some kerning) 21:24:22 <b_jonas> the most horrible is when the ligature appears in the ligature table of a monospaced font, so the monospaced font suddenly isn't as monospaced as you'd have thought 21:24:55 <b_jonas> you write "fi" in such a font, and it will take only one cell, not two 21:24:58 <zzo38> I don't like ligatures in monospace font 21:25:07 <zzo38> 2600 uses ligatures in monospace font and I don't like that 21:25:28 <b_jonas> in this case the problem is that the ligature takes only one monospaced cell instead of two 21:25:50 <zzo38> They also use smartquotes in monospace text and that also is no good 21:25:51 <b_jonas> but in any case, even if it took two cells, an "fi" ligature isn't likely to be needed in a monospaced font 21:26:24 <pikhq> Probably more *relevant* is Arabic vs. Urdu script, which has somewhat distinct glyph rendering... 21:26:28 <b_jonas> zzo38: but isn't that an editor issue rather than a font problem? 21:26:39 <zzo38> b_jonas: Probably, yes 21:27:04 <pikhq> An "fi" ligature is certainly needed in a monospaced font, but for only one reason: it has a code point (for legacy reasons). 21:27:39 <b_jonas> mind you, I also think that perhaps there should have been two different cyrillic scripts, not only one, instead of two different options for language-specific rendering cyrillic text, but it's definitely too late to change that now. 21:28:00 <b_jonas> pikhq: yes, but then the ligature table shouldn't turn "fi" to that code point 21:28:25 <b_jonas> even if there's a glyph for that code point 21:28:35 <pikhq> Oh, certainly. That (well, or similar) is only at all appropriate in the rendering of proportional text. 21:29:52 <pikhq> In fixed width text, the sane handling is that any given codepoint takes 0, 1, or 2 cells. 21:35:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:38:51 <shachaf> @google esoteric maths 21:38:54 <lambdabot> http://www.esotericonline.net/group/vortexmath 21:38:54 <lambdabot> Title: Vortex based Mathematics - Esoteric Online 21:39:18 <shachaf> vortex math is so good 21:42:44 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:46:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:51:24 <b_jonas> if I'm writing a C++ library with lots of short inline const member functions in template classes, would it be going too far if I said #define Z ) const { return 21:53:53 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:57:27 -!- tromp_ has joined. 21:57:28 <pikhq> that's... terrible. 22:01:12 <oerjan> `? gregor 22:01:15 <HackEgo> Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible. 22:02:04 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:04:17 <oerjan> eek wtf thursday forecast 22:04:42 -!- hilquias` has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:04:45 <pikhq> Mmm, T23:59:60Z a'comin. 22:05:07 <oerjan> over the next 48 hours it will increase from a low of 13 to a high of 26 celsius 22:05:46 * oerjan needs an acclimatization pill 22:06:47 <pikhq> Could be worse! It's 29C and humid right now! 22:06:52 <pikhq> Oh, and that's a normal temp here. 22:07:04 <pikhq> (bit low, TBH) 22:08:05 <myname> only 26? 22:08:25 <myname> itks gpnna be 37chere on saturday 22:08:33 <pikhq> myname: I know, right? That's comfy. 22:08:41 <myname> well, no 22:10:34 <pikhq> oerjan: Oh, also fun: the average high in July is 31.7C. :) 22:11:08 <oerjan> that's only about 4 degrees below the norwegian maximum temperature record hth 22:11:13 <pikhq> (the record high being a far less happiness-inducing 46C) 22:11:40 <oerjan> (the first one.) 22:12:30 <pikhq> The absolute highest recorded temp in the *US*, BTW, is 57C. (kill me) 22:12:57 <oerjan> i thought the death valley had the global record now, after the libyan one was discredited? 22:13:13 <pikhq> That probably is the global high then. 22:13:55 <pikhq> Yep, it is. 22:15:46 <pikhq> And then there's Phoenix, which has on average about 100 days a year above 37C... 22:15:50 <pikhq> :( 22:16:51 <myname> it sucks to ride a bike there, i guess 22:17:37 <oerjan> Christopher C. Burt, the weather historian writing for Weather Underground who shepherded the Libya reading's 2012 disqualification, believes that the 1913 Death Valley reading is "a myth", and is at least four or five degrees Fahrenheit too high,[10] as do other weather historians Dr. Arnold Court and William Taylor Reid.[90] Burt proposes that the highest reliably recorded temperature on Earth is still at Death Valley, but is instead 53.9 °C ... 22:17:43 <oerjan> ... (129 °F) recorded five times [...] 22:18:42 <myname> 54 c is about the temperature where people become liquid 22:19:05 <oerjan> tru fax 22:19:15 <oerjan> hm fax 22:19:35 <oerjan> haven't seen em in a while 22:24:49 <shachaf> `wisdom help 22:24:50 <HackEgo> elliot/No one was ever called Elliot. 22:26:07 <pikhq> Of course, 53C has been recorded in Arizona as well. 22:26:09 <pikhq> In 1994. 22:26:29 <shachaf> that's a lot of C 22:26:49 <shachaf> `wisdom 53C 22:26:51 <HackEgo> hexham/Hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico 22:39:15 -!- llue has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:40:01 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:41:08 <oerjan> `` ls wisdom/hash* 22:41:09 <HackEgo> wisdom/hash 2346ad27d7568ba9896f1b7da6b5991251debdf2 22:41:32 <oerjan> i guess it's still there because of the `revert bug. 22:42:23 <shachaf> `wisdom hash* 22:42:24 <HackEgo> oerjan/Your famous evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. 22:42:25 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:42:27 -!- lleu has joined. 22:42:57 <oerjan> `cat bin/wisdom 22:42:58 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl 22:44:08 <shachaf> oerjan: what do you think of time complexity analysis with regard to average time for an operation twh 22:44:12 <shachaf> whatever that's called 22:44:28 <oerjan> splendid idea, someone else should do that hth 22:46:08 <shachaf> Is shuf -n1 clever enough to only keep one line in memory? 22:49:26 <oerjan> interesting question. it could obviously do so. 22:50:19 <shachaf> Presumably you can implement shuf -nN with only N lines in memory. 22:50:29 <shachaf> Is that a standard algorithm? 22:50:35 <b_jonas> shachaf: yes 22:50:56 <b_jonas> shachaf: in fact, there are _two_ algorithms, one known, one barely known 22:50:57 <shachaf> Oh, I've even read about it before. 22:50:59 <b_jonas> let me find the reference 22:51:29 <b_jonas> oh wait, you want N lines of memory only, not runtime? 22:51:30 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservoir_sampling 22:51:34 <b_jonas> then it's a simple standard algorithm 22:51:39 <b_jonas> sorry, I read your question wrong 22:51:46 <shachaf> What did you read it as? 22:52:36 <b_jonas> there's a more complicated algorithm for choosing n random indexes without repetition from a large range 1..N where N is much larger than n, 22:52:53 <b_jonas> with not only the memory usage being O(n), but the runtime as well 22:53:51 <b_jonas> and there's two algorithms for that, one described in an exercise in Knuth, the other is barely known 22:54:13 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:56:11 <oerjan> shuf has some trouble being time limited since lines don't have predictable length 22:56:25 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes 22:56:58 <b_jonas> this is worth not for when you have N data represented explicitly, but when you can generate the data with a fast function from the index 22:57:34 <b_jonas> the input data that is 23:01:51 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 23:03:57 -!- mihow has joined. 23:05:09 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:13:54 <zzo38> What is "shuf -n" command meaning? 23:18:00 <b_jonas> zzo38: choose N uniform random lines of the input without repetition and in random order (unless there are fewer than N lines in the input), where N is the argument to the switch -n 23:18:45 <zzo38> OK 23:19:49 <zzo38> If you want one random line can you do, pick the first line with probability 1/1, replace the memory with the second line with probability 1/2, replace the memory with the third line with probability 1/3, etc 23:20:09 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, that's how it works 23:20:50 <b_jonas> the algorithm for shuf -n is so famous it's described in both the main text of Knuth and (iirc) in the Cormen-Leiserson-Rivest-Stein book 23:21:54 <zzo38> I did once need to implement such a thing too, but with weights too, and this is what I used. 23:22:43 <b_jonas> weighted is probably less well known 23:23:01 <b_jonas> I'm not sure what the weights are supposed to mean 23:23:11 <zzo38> Well, this is I figured it out by myself I didn't read those books 23:23:47 <b_jonas> does it mean you take a weighted independent random selection of N items, and then condition that on it having no repetitions? 23:24:39 <zzo38> In my case I was only taking one item, and the weight is meaning that item can be more than one 23:25:16 <zzo38> Such as [AAAABBCCDEFG] then you can instead make [A(4) B(2) C(2) D(1) E(1) F(1) G(1)] where the number in () is a weight number. 23:26:02 <fowl> Does a markov chain generally hold probability info 23:26:23 <zzo38> fowl: I thought it does but I don't know 23:26:44 <b_jonas> zzo38: oh, choosing _one_ item with weighted 23:26:55 <b_jonas> the algorithm for that _is_ in Knuth 23:27:07 <fowl> I am using a table of (string,string) => list<string> 23:27:09 <zzo38> Ah, OK 23:27:16 <fowl> And choosing the next word at random 23:27:32 <b_jonas> in fact, a stronger algorithm for that 23:27:57 <b_jonas> again, one that finds a random index in O(1) time, after O(n) time and space preprocessing the weights to O(n) extra space 23:28:00 <b_jonas> it's a funny algorithm 23:28:56 <b_jonas> I believe that algorithm is also in the C++11 standard library, the preprocessed state is called std::discrete_distribution 23:29:21 <b_jonas> (and its operator() member function generates an index based on the preprocessed data) 23:29:37 <b_jonas> I think it's also in libgsl, but I'm not completely sure 23:30:16 <b_jonas> this, of course, is again most useful if you can random access the input you want to sample 23:30:29 <b_jonas> otherwise the simpler algorithm with no preprocessing works too 23:31:28 <zzo38> I didn't use preprocess weights. I implemented it as a SQL aggregate function in a C code, so you have to read it one record at a time and do not have the capability to preprocess anything 23:31:52 <b_jonas> zzo38: I see 23:32:59 <b_jonas> though if the input set is always the same, you could index it so it's random access by the index, and then use the more complicated algorithm if you want to get lots of independent weighted samples 23:33:34 <b_jonas> like if a webpage wants to show a random image or quotations out of a weighted set every time you load it 23:33:42 <b_jonas> and the set is large 23:34:35 <zzo38> The function implementation doesn't know if the input set is always the same or not, and anyways I didn't implement it for multiple selections; I only implemented to pick one. But yes it can be useful, if you want to pick more than one, to make up the proper way to do that 23:36:09 <zzo38> But, one purpose I intend to do with is that you can generate a booster pack of Magic: the Gathering cards or whatever by a SQL query. 23:36:50 <b_jonas> zzo38: I see. 23:37:26 <b_jonas> though that's more complicated 23:37:33 <b_jonas> a booster pack usually doesn't contain repetitions 23:37:38 <b_jonas> (I believe) 23:38:11 <b_jonas> and the ideal distribution used might not be completely known, because Wizards doesn't tell so that people can't complain if they don't do it perfectly 23:38:33 <b_jonas> you can probably find a convincing enough approximation for that distribution though 23:39:03 <zzo38> I don't know whether or not it does, but that would involve changing it too. However you can also just use the weights when there is not the repetitions, use a trigger that would insert records into the pack table and each time to pick one, pick only from the ones that aren't already picked 23:39:32 <b_jonas> zzo38: I'm not sure if that's exactly the same 23:39:37 <b_jonas> is it? 23:40:31 <b_jonas> I mean, I'm not sure it's the same as repicking the whole thing when there's a repetition 23:42:00 <b_jonas> in fact, I think it's not the same 23:42:05 <b_jonas> when the distribution is not uniform 23:42:35 <zzo38> In SQL a infinite loop can contain only SELECT statements though, you can't make a infinite loop with INSERT, UPDATE, DELETE, etc although finite loops can contain INSERT, UPDATE, DELETE; and no loops can include statements such as CREATE and PRAGMA 23:43:17 <b_jonas> hmm 23:44:48 <b_jonas> but can't you just generate a booster pack using unweighted samples without repetition instead? 23:45:23 <b_jonas> with possibly some cards duplicated in older sets, and deciding separately whether you want a mythic or a rare, and whether you want a foil and of what rarity 23:45:27 <zzo38> In Magic: the Gathering at least, I think the only case where weighted samples are even needed is when you don't pick more than one 23:45:33 <zzo38> (Except for some old sets) 23:46:04 <b_jonas> even for old sets, you just need multiple copies of a card in the same set and rarity (sometimes with the same art, sometimes with different art) 23:46:09 <b_jonas> I think 23:46:21 <b_jonas> but of course it's hard to be sure what they really do to generate booster packs 23:46:55 <zzo38> I would generally though want to ignore art and holographic since they don't affect the game. Nevertheless for some people can be useful such as if they use this software to make up their own card game 23:48:52 <b_jonas> what? 23:49:03 <b_jonas> the foil does affect the distribution of the booster card 23:49:15 <b_jonas> (at least for most of the recent expert expansion sets) 23:49:40 <b_jonas> because a common is replaced by a foil of any rarity, so boosters with a foil rare have another rare 23:49:51 <b_jonas> you can't just ignore that 23:50:13 <zzo38> Does it improve the Limited formats though? 23:50:24 <b_jonas> you could ignore the art, technically, but that doesn't really simpligy your code 23:50:28 <b_jonas> zzo38: I don't know really 23:50:29 <pikhq> Yes, it's possible for a draft pool to have more rares than expected. 23:50:51 <pikhq> Unless by "improve" you mean "make it a better game", not "improve the power level in the format". 23:51:02 <zzo38> I mean to make it a better game. 23:51:03 <b_jonas> zzo38: it probably improves the satisfaction of customers at least, because they can very rarely open boosters with two rares 23:51:05 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:51:17 <pikhq> Ah. That's probably a judgement call really. 23:51:20 <b_jonas> I don't know how it affects the metagame itself 23:51:36 -!- TodPunk has joined. 23:52:16 <zzo38> When making up distribution of cards in a pack, I am concerned here only about Limited formats. When I would design my own card game I would do this too and the rarity and so on is defined to improve the Limited formats only. 23:54:35 <b_jonas> ok 23:55:11 -!- hilquias has joined. 23:57:32 <coppro> happy leap second everyone 23:57:55 <b_jonas> thanks 23:58:20 <zzo38> Do you know if it is possible to add leap seconds into the configuration file of Astrolog?