< 1438560117 18807 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1438560117 73233 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1438560606 173615 :rg_!~textual@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438560643 933205 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438560804 937122 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1438560831 336372 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1438560867 765970 :_256Q!~toastyten@unaffiliated/256q/x-9307863 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438561007 598136 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438561097 23327 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1438561258 90395 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1438561505 429128 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@50.141.33.36 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438561727 529331 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1438561947 89766 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1438562058 674481 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438562477 328356 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438562725 512409 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1438562772 720207 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438562807 156006 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438563292 815310 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1438563877 454865 :rg_!~rg_@ool-ae2ccdeb.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438564016 151192 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want a variant of the "fixed" font that is also including the DEC technical characters, and preferably also support for PC character set and PETSCII, and possibly also the Infocom character graphics < 1438564603 225977 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm JOIN :#esoteric < 1438565090 80924 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A new kind of Magic: the Gathering card: "At the beginning of each combat damage step, the active player chooses and taps a land he controls, and then if it is not your turn the active player draws a card." < 1438565317 569654 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/taps a land/taps an untapped land/ < 1438565463 438519 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to learn MtG < 1438565631 362013 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: A real Magic: The Gathering card would say "a land he or she controls" < 1438565632 363488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 ≥ 1 < 1438565633 558897 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: ‘≥’ < 1438565636 123771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1438565670 447898 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes < 1438565721 732500 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x → x) 1 < 1438565723 88157 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1438565732 763940 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure I follow that card. < 1438565742 955210 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"active player" is the same as "the player whose turn it is", right? < 1438565782 524226 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. For the card drawing effect, it must be your teammate or your opponent, but the other effect includes everyone (unless that player controls no untapped lands) < 1438565807 299213 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the card helps everyone except you? < 1438565821 916319 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be missing something. < 1438565822 373437 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a card that lets you draw cad instead of opponent, then you will draw a card, but it still doesn't work during your own turn. < 1438565870 842446 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you have Underworld Dreams, then opponent will both draw a card and lose 1 life point. < 1438565998 399060 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can also donate it to allow you to draw a card, or steal such a card from opponent to prevent yourself from drawing a card.) < 1438566051 54049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drawing a card and losing a life is almost always beneficial for your opponent, isn't it? < 1438566077 706714 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether there are any cards that have negative effects and require Donate to be useful. < 1438566096 208167 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly it depends on the circumstances, such as their current life points, how many cards remain in their library, and effects that depend on how many cards are in some player's hand. < 1438566149 527670 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are things like Demonic Pact. < 1438566536 155487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1438566694 513378 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I can see that now too < 1438567283 892911 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have all of cp-437 < 1438567490 318551 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDream < 1438567524 339297 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later I'll go back and increase coverage to entire unicode blocks < 1438567792 991973 :rg_!~rg_@ool-ae2ccdeb.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1438568065 88693 :rg_!~rg_@ool-ae2ccdeb.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438568159 975007 :rg_!~rg_@ool-ae2ccdeb.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1438568282 340504 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LATIN EXTENDED A is done < 1438568347 349000 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, wait wat < 1438568376 733012 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok apparently there is Latin-1 then Latin-A then Latin-B. WTF < 1438568705 397692 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438569171 991551 :_256Q!~toastyten@unaffiliated/256q/x-9307863 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438569175 170438 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1438570930 699006 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438570951 327780 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438571099 171706 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rwrpofycvgduplpy JOIN :#esoteric < 1438571661 964397 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438571826 534091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is now on windows 10
< 1438571856 470276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sense a bit of a cognitive dissonance. i think i switched every single configuration toggle in the setup. < 1438571952 421450 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sorts of toggles? < 1438571956 634994 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear the start menu is back. < 1438571990 732581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm looks like it < 1438572025 186693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: everything suggesting sending information to microsoft and/or sharing data with/between apps < 1438572033 624837 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1438572037 415733 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1438572103 462403 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, IE seems replaced with something new and edgy, i wonder if i can find my tabs again... < 1438572314 413701 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this is unacceptable hm... < 1438572352 865041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there < 1438572371 407294 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows should really come with a dessert menu < 1438572463 231606 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There must be no space between the #` and the opening bracket character. (There may be the visual appearance of space for some double-wide characters, however, such as the corner quotes above.) < 1438572463 285935 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1438572471 762184 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's surprisingly acknowleding of Unicodeness < 1438572482 978645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm typing into putty is annoyingly slow < 1438572486 578800 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think if Perl6 has any strengths at all, Unicode is looking like one < 1438572507 92463 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking vararg handling might be another, but not sure yet < 1438572591 405136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok vim is still fast < 1438572864 656836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely suspect this upgrade was a mistake. oh well.
< 1438572887 974351 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've stopped being able to boot to Windows so I don't have to worry about this problem. < 1438572901 922703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :more seriously, my touchpad driver menu has disappeared again and the usual method to fix it doesn't seem to be working. < 1438573187 466663 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YEAH! now I have everything from the first 3 unicode blocks < 1438573229 360511 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now maybe I'll do Latin B < 1438573420 831301 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does ʼn exist? < 1438573496 527659 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1438573516 92265 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ʼn < 1438573533 217268 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0149 LATIN SMALL LETTER N PRECEDED BY APOSTROPHE] [U+0020 SPACE] < 1438573564 329073 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1438573605 597783 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438573718 792386 :codergeek42!~pgordon@2602:306:bc32:ada0:221:6aff:fe68:c87c JOIN :#esoteric < 1438573722 867319 :codergeek42!~pgordon@2602:306:bc32:ada0:221:6aff:fe68:c87c QUIT :Changing host < 1438573722 921450 :codergeek42!~pgordon@fedora/codergeek42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438573729 386437 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438573989 398097 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1438574031 335909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the touchpad scroll actually works, but in the opposite direction. < 1438574049 855902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh no, they copied Apple on that evil change? < 1438574101 957629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i assume it's connected to the loss of my driver menu, which i've always sort of suspected competed with MS's setup < 1438574117 93218 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438574191 844155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that has been removed as not working in W10, in which case i guess i need to find the actual windows menu for it... < 1438574837 747866 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if RC4 is ever going to die.
< 1438574869 820801 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it *should*, but it's not already dead and there's attacks on it on the order of "individual researchers can do decryption on it in the span of a couple days". < 1438574913 366777 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not always used for encryption though, and even if it is sometimes various improved versions are used < 1438574979 598341 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found another typo in a Perl 6 design doc, someone else fixed < 1438575011 974340 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really bad for RNG use too -- the RC4 random bit stream can be identified and in some cases predicted. < 1438575086 816451 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's worth noting that the "arc4random" function is not necessarily using the RC4 algorithm, contrary to the name. :) < 1438575243 640434 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can work if you don't need it to be so unpredictable and that stuff. < 1438575272 542652 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you may as well use a Mersenne twister. < 1438575418 810122 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I do Latin B next or complete the coverage of Greek? < 1438576353 321975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds a touchpad upgrade download but it's horribly slow
< 1438576386 411717 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, at least it's progressing. shave -> < 1438576399 198687 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1438576982 695884 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-084-062-103-201.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1438577077 772803 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-062-103-201.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438577500 757276 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And yes, an int1 can store only -1 or 0. I'm sure someone'll think of a use for it... < 1438577500 858592 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1438577535 737708 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1438577616 82345 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a 1-bit integer type in LLVM, although I think it is commonly consder unsigned < 1438577789 262506 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"someone the other day made the mistake of saying the specs are specifications. I quickly corrected them of that nonsense; they're speculations." < 1438577881 260157 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of Windows 1252 is now supported < 1438577934 160752 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: perfectly usable for BASIC combined boolean-logical arithmetics. < 1438577961 885403 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1438578016 80828 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in BASIC, as well as in Forth, it is commonly use -1 for true and 0 for false, so that you don't need separate bitwise and logical AND and OR operators. Although, at least Forth has a 0= operator. < 1438578030 552748 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438580040 324964 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438580112 432108 :quietello!~bcd@209.86.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1438580282 240447 :codergeek42!~pgordon@fedora/codergeek42 QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat < 1438580310 311401 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1438580399 959366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally scroll works in the right direction again. < 1438580519 772232 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION optimistically checks out girl genius. hey it's already updated!
< 1438580544 963842 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you make olist update twh < 1438580606 581250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, just used up that spell slot < 1438580662 685843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :twhib < 1438580798 32482 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :spot of the spot check, governor? < 1438582871 393981 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@50.141.33.36 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1438585494 156975 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@50.141.33.36 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438586237 111000 :x10A94!x10A94@178.252.73.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438586508 111722 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-27-215.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1438586578 109616 :x1365C!x10A94@178.252.73.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438586606 656747 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438586612 964241 :x16444!x10A94@178.252.73.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438586760 620044 :x10A94!x10A94@178.252.73.97 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1438586773 700524 :x16444!x10A94@178.252.73.97 NICK :x10A94 < 1438586826 93638 :x1365C!x10A94@178.252.73.97 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1438586850 643279 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1438587188 899990 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"„I know!”, a gemstone-fascinated person would say, „We can monkey-patch IO::Socket::INET”. And then we have two problems. " < 1438587381 127731 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1438588178 244644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: /Z/ZZ/ < 1438589583 282579 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rwrpofycvgduplpy QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1438589601 512037 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my font now supports all the block elements < 1438589617 21240 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of the geometric shapes < 1438589726 628219 :hppavilion[1]_!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438589805 161411 :hppavilion[1]_!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellu < 1438589829 702283 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1438589840 46566 :hppavilion[1]_!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 NICK :hppavilion[1][0] < 1438589850 40205 :hppavilion[1][0]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM NOW TWO DIMENSIONAL < 1438589853 720039 :hppavilion[1][0]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEAR MY WRATH < 1438589871 196427 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still come across as kinda flat < 1438589947 357778 :hppavilion[1][0]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the audience boos Taneb < 1438590678 88937 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1438590912 170413 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438590947 588699 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :750 characters! < 1438590975 655279 :hppavilion[1][0]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438591147 863299 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-096-222.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1438591166 125492 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1438591434 222845 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm done for today, i'll do more tomorrow < 1438591437 243958 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.orenwatson.be/neoletters.ttf < 1438591438 386856 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@5.29.31.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438591538 165359 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@5.29.31.92 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1438591554 368349 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1438591602 626763 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438591622 235144 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So here's an idea for an esoteric file system: < 1438591628 447695 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloom filter filesys < 1438591643 458380 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible for know for certain if a file exists < 1438591650 693586 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you can know for certain if it doesn't < 1438591870 460830 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be easy to find files with small identifiers but harder to find files with large ones < 1438591899 634165 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438592140 637279 :hooplavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438592142 342758 :hooplavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit firefox < 1438592152 178657 :hooplavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anyone say anything while I was gone? < 1438592154 188565 :hooplavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anway < 1438592160 326535 :hooplavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloom Filter Filesys < 1438592170 985204 :hooplavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only be certain if a file isn't in the system < 1438592186 200017 :hooplavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the more files you have, the less certain you can be when it si < 1438592191 547407 :hooplavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/si/is < 1438592347 665961 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438592388 961671 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 10 Solitaire has Ads. < 1438592390 545014 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice! < 1438592399 48201 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Don't worry, you can pay to get rid of them. < 1438592425 865550 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, that's fair then. < 1438592428 738614 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a "freemium" operating system. < 1438592445 603127 :hooplavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438592456 54516 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, this ad bullshit has to stop. < 1438592485 677415 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: what a great way for a poor corporation to get money, though < 1438592530 76219 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An ad-free internet would cost each user at least £140 a year – a sum that the vast majority of UK web users say they would never pay, according to new research. " < 1438592533 534418 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call bullshit on that. < 1438592601 983569 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry < 1438592608 434404 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :Practically, where would the money go? To the ISP? Where would the ISP send that money? < 1438592633 7879 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pay-per-view internet? ;-; < 1438592636 290272 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Websites could just use paypal or something. < 1438592642 930076 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pay-per-view through micro-payment services < 1438592643 725258 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone will make a free and better version of Windows Solitare without ads because that's a humanitarian effort obviously < 1438592653 454740 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pay-per-view internet < 1438592655 758488 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: There probably are already < 1438592660 639393 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NET NEUTRALITY ALERT < 1438592661 256357 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NET NEUTRALITY ALERT < 1438592667 270202 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP < 1438592676 531335 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NET NEUTRALITY ALERT < 1438592698 586418 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1438592706 396312 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :net neutrality doesn't prohibit you from collecting money. < 1438592711 560 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1438592716 941044 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :A youtube account will cost 10$ a year. < 1438592720 645209 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was kidding < 1438592734 610566 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd pay that. < 1438592736 49492 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there are already websites behind paywalls < 1438592742 612935 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not go all the way? < 1438592750 548283 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could just use Adblock < 1438592759 74656 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And subscribe to Patreons and such < 1438592767 960538 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only for youtubers you actually like < 1438592808 726489 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that mean people in the UK are giving up £140 each year to ads? < 1438592826 990481 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Make that ~£200, after overheads.) < 1438592845 825678 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they just calculated how much ad companies pay to show their ads. < 1438592854 886919 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then divided that by the number of UK citizens < 1438592874 442291 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1438592882 351972 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much science < 1438592887 750948 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because no UK citizens use ad block, of course < 1438592902 403325 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the ads are either worth the expense (in which case the above is true) or they're not (in which case the number is meaningless) < 1438592921 14044 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say if the ad companies pay that much money they are worth it < 1438592924 784547 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an assigned scientific variable called Ukc which stands for "Number of Citizens of the United Kindom of Great Britain and Blah Blah Blah" < 1438592934 322036 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :True fact. < 1438592937 802585 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the ad companies aim for profit. < 1438592941 524913 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1438592946 334950 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ad companies actually love adblock < 1438592951 596521 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that way < 1438592954 119276 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :they will probably make more money than what they pay < 1438592961 330661 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't pay for users who would never click their ads < 1438592990 151390 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't yet intentionally clicked on any ad < 1438593008 345430 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :only google search results. < 1438593016 620625 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't click on ads becasue it is technologically impossible for me to do so :P < 1438593021 342504 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might be skewed as well... < 1438593035 684598 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, it's plausible that good analytics for an affluent country like the UK can be worth £200 per person per year) < 1438593043 782183 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/)/./ < 1438593214 484732 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Bloom Filters < 1438593251 646389 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard ad companies pay ad block money to not block them :) < 1438593265 14310 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least that's still a conspiracy theory. < 1438593267 521993 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1438593273 722302 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ad Companies like adblock < 1438593278 154164 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just think < 1438593295 536274 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is someone who uses adblock _ever_ going to click on an ad, even without adblock? < 1438593296 220291 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1438593328 406134 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://adblockplus.org/acceptable-ads-agreements < 1438593334 88980 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right < 1438593337 231014 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acceptable ads < 1438593342 233377 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's one of those tricky "download now" ads < 1438593347 376038 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1438593350 364107 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1438593353 318911 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1438593359 886428 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1438593364 822391 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Download Now" ad makers should be arrested < 1438593367 186925 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :they get paid for the acceptable ads :) < 1438593381 266311 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And brutally, graphically executed in public < 1438593470 68776 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ad networks don't actually care about the minuscule expense of serving ads to users. They even use HTTPS now, so that the ads are harder to filter. < 1438593572 66734 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit < 1438593646 34434 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Amusingly, those ads can now also take much longer to load, due to the TLS handshake.) < 1438593788 959152 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhi < 1438593807 602742 :shikhi!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1438593847 801769 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :hikhin < 1438593929 845096 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hi shikhin < 1438593930 549658 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi shikhin. Hikhin. < 1438593960 717387 :hikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1438593963 976308 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey. < 1438594060 506534 :puckipedia!puck@irc.puckipedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1438594090 166136 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :real time ad bidding < 1438594092 664375 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the real stuff < 1438594946 464317 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1438596095 668174 :Froox!~Frooxius@50.141.33.36 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438596461 39245 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@94-224-27-215.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1438596480 22331 :t3cora!~t3cora@2001:470:8b70:1337::c0de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1438596480 76671 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-27-215.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1438596480 257252 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@50.141.33.36 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1438596481 276639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1438596481 433180 :AnotherTest_!~turingcom@94-224-27-215.access.telenet.be NICK :AnotherTest < 1438596496 766224 :t3cora!~t3cora@2001:470:8b70:1337::c0de JOIN :#esoteric < 1438596789 280248 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1438597172 203430 :jameseb!~jameseb_@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1438597468 352075 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438597725 298342 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1438597744 309953 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438600139 180933 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1438600140 584786 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hockey/Hockey < 1438600145 652168 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1438600155 285393 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very wisdommy. < 1438600255 956501 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn hockey/Hockey is okey, but parsley is gharsley. < 1438600261 115610 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «hockey» < 1438600683 130580 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-27-215.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1438601162 210209 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1438601163 456871 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :el camino real/There is no royal road to analytic geometry. < 1438601210 733173 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange. I expected Taneb to have invented it. < 1438601259 765802 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: ABROGATED CHICKEN < 1438601468 272356 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1438601469 523201 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :c#/C Pound is Java's good twin. < 1438601474 714527 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1438601487 774134 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom Rust < 1438601489 402370 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :find: `wisdom/*Rust*': No such file or directory \ /cat: : No such file or directory < 1438601493 981128 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Rust < 1438601494 929929 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1438601560 84338 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1438601854 343541 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1438601855 753447 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant info/K�H�L?����%y�9v���n�kM_��v�4�6���$Tn�`��ʋ�xk��H2���gq�H;!�;2�F�(zإ���2C�m��X��W < 1438601868 222175 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/ < 1438601877 483781 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric : _o/ < 1438601877 586308 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69     | < 1438601877 669293 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69     |\ < 1438601885 118142 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Did You get a Level-Up and can increase Stats now? < 1438601889 962745 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hangman* < 1438601902 655778 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay. < 1438601907 584691 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had not seen the Backlog. B) < 1438602014 994500 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-096-222.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1438602939 511836 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438603234 520430 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1438603555 879374 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fisdom < 1438603556 679594 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fisdom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1438603617 888523 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn fisdom is the domination by the feder inspection station. < 1438603620 76093 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'fisdom': fisdom is the domination by the feder inspection station. < 1438603625 986119 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn fisdom is the domination by the federal inspection station. < 1438603627 860522 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'fisdom': fisdom is the domination by the federal inspection station. < 1438604238 392593 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: how big is the RNN you've been training on the logs? < 1438604324 89664 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1438604718 590903 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@50.141.34.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438604776 771505 :Froox!~Frooxius@50.141.33.36 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438604785 93787 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1438605914 264252 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Why would you want to do that? < 1438605914 470120 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: train goes soon. in a more or less anything at random in esoteric. no sir! < 1438606071 523514 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438606363 661013 :temp!3cf0ccc0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.60.240.204.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438607020 761769 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@c-73-31-240-150.hsd1.wv.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438607025 410252 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@c-73-31-240-150.hsd1.wv.comcast.net QUIT :Changing host < 1438607025 502836 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1438607334 455573 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1438607710 163494 :temp!3cf0ccc0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.60.240.204.192 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1438607758 550414 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1438607925 463248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438608779 676533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1438608840 774036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438609012 203691 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: train to where? < 1438609012 670347 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: including baby fnord. if not, will you? i chat with people on the comittee that decided that i'm not i shall rape you into submission!!! < 1438609033 876212 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It rapes you into submission < 1438609039 944360 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what.. the.. f.... < 1438609083 747126 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: are you a RSO? < 1438609083 952960 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: he was banned from haskell over a year ago < 1438609084 7217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1438609095 744257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438610224 354766 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1438610388 381634 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1438610995 250228 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1438610995 342662 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1438611045 283879 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RSO? < 1438611166 148308 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rape submission officer, presumably < 1438611215 329493 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :registered sex offender < 1438611218 953179 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably < 1438611603 340574 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1438611721 682235 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder which channel that gem is from. < 1438611749 640267 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, #esoteric. Big surprise there. < 1438611794 626118 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2008-06-04#204157GregorR < 1438611901 66493 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gg fizzie < 1438611915 621757 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1438612962 653595 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The breakthrough is unlikely to see people losing their jobs to software-creating computers, Harman explains. "We want to free programmers from their shackles, not to make them redundant," he says. Instead, it will free programmers up from boring tasks." < 1438612967 257849 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah right < 1438612967 362323 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's complete bullshit < 1438613010 817621 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :every automation will eventually cause someone's job. < 1438613021 800479 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to loose < 1438613093 700907 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make something automatic, someone can't work the same hours he used to. < 1438613165 407644 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1438613173 712139 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If something can be done more efficiently, you don't need as much workers < 1438613181 714275 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you keep the same amount of workers, you need more work. < 1438613202 186870 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively < 1438613207 311170 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with increased productivity < 1438613214 760726 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can keep the same amount of workers < 1438613218 753654 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with less hours per < 1438613230 273910 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have them do elective/voluntary projects < 1438613231 590273 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, which means less pay for the worker usually. < 1438613241 925102 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they also pay you more per hour. < 1438613248 475353 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can thank the corporate tax and benefits system for that < 1438613258 974452 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's why burn rates are high for small businesses < 1438613281 505253 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I mean benefits I mean the "employee "benefits"" < 1438613289 160955 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically if your productivity is up, you should earn more < 1438613293 1175 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1438613293 411133 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you earn more, you can pay more < 1438613323 64751 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in general I think you will loose jobs. < 1438613323 376153 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is that unions eat 30% employee income < 1438613337 165502 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and payroll taxes on top of beneifts, and employee taxes < 1438613354 726318 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just bleeds money the more you make due to regression in the graduate taxes < 1438613384 134923 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if you make certain tasks so easy, they can be done by uneducated humans < 1438613390 119441 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you actually make the more educated humans jobless < 1438613402 786298 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the uneducated get more "factory jobs" :) < 1438613406 950706 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can pay more, much like you can by raising the minimum wage, but that moves everyone on minimum wage to a new tax bracket where they get screwed < 1438613438 432489 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines a time where programming apps is 95% factory work where you just click things together
< 1438613451 990239 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other 5% writes modules the factory worker can put together :D < 1438613475 562043 :MDream!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1438613565 8484 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :put yeah, a lot of programming is just doing the same things over and over again < 1438613568 580717 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mostly boring :) < 1438613578 499761 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like writing UI for stuff < 1438613608 507679 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be semi-auto-generatable from some existing source code or description < 1438613621 201490 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why pressing programming into math is helpful < 1438613687 813448 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Auto derivation, machine proofs, etc) < 1438613801 227232 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1438613805 770885 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll cost me my job. < 1438613817 394139 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually < 1438613837 784242 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the one that does these boring repetitive things < 1438613848 315167 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you automate does I have nothing left to do. < 1438613850 555761 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*those < 1438613899 182201 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: IIRC, it's 3 layers, size 700. < 1438613918 639016 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why one should be happy to have a boring job. Because boring pays. < 1438613986 543726 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do research about how to make humans useless you should also do research what to do with the useless humans :P < 1438614133 399871 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438614135 303801 :Wright_!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438614572 935973 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1438614582 755496 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438614673 725126 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1438615011 394026 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric : \ < 1438615851 461932 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come whenever I write haskell code I feel dirty? < 1438615877 826763 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are crazy < 1438615883 974125 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is pure beauty < 1438615947 319033 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I feel like my code isn't beauty enough < 1438616027 374163 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438616187 308909 :augur_!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438616280 910345 :villain_sin!~endor.312@adsl-184-43-92-69.bgk.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438616429 399784 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1438617019 560127 :Froox!~Frooxius@50.141.34.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438617218 562951 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@50.141.34.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1438617313 660113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438618031 470659 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1438618576 86516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438619209 480516 :villain_sin!~endor.312@adsl-184-43-92-69.bgk.bellsouth.net PART #esoteric :"c ya" < 1438620873 195802 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.4.235.219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438623072 473151 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-240.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is a work of art, but you can still write ugly Haskell code:( < 1438623361 473470 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-096-222.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1438623377 617502 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-096-222.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1438623470 672746 :quietello!~bcd@209.86.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1438623720 477677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you're saying is that you can write (ugly (Haskell code)), but not ((ugly Haskell) code)? < 1438624119 119189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly Haskell is an esolang < 1438624131 808654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in much the same way that compile-time C++ is < 1438624236 30499 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahis523 < 1438624260 102615 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make sense of the following Magic: The Gathering card that zzo38 proposed yesterday?: "At the beginning of each combat damage step, the active player chooses and taps an untapped land he or she controls, and then if it is not your turn the active player draws a card." < 1438624585 164957 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can < 1438624619 107105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When would it be a good idea to play? < 1438624635 657871 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :never < 1438624660 451816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow that card is bad < 1438624693 540122 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :whyyy did I nuke my code directory < 1438624694 71470 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1438624713 991315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that's templated in correctly, ", and then" should just be "." < 1438624726 643874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: restore from backup? < 1438624749 504326 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just wrote it today < 1438624755 726915 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no backup < 1438624758 279980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1438624763 899195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :recovering a day of work isn't normally too bad < 1438624766 749497 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1438624766 803798 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the mechanical interpretation but not why you would ever play that card. < 1438624769 666720 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just annoying < 1438624798 926613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's zzo38, there probably isn't a reason < 1438624811 608278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's more interested in what is possible than what is useful < 1438624844 206290 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the past zzo38 suggested cards that I didn't understand the point of at first but did eventually. < 1438624851 642646 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess this isn't one of those. < 1438624922 896924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I guess it wouldn't be so bad a card in Commander < 1438624938 843114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any card that lets everyone else draw cards tends to be good there because it makes people less inclined to kill you < 1438624987 748322 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It lets your teammates draw cards too, not only your opponents, is another thing. (That assumes you have any teammates) < 1438625103 779215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah right, it's probably a useful card in archenemy? howling mine effects are pretty good there < 1438625148 426950 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are also various combos including Underworld Dreams, and if someone has cards with first strike then there are two combat damage steps < 1438625166 720345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howling Mine looks pretty odd with modern rules. < 1438625181 926666 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I vaguely remember something about artifacts being tapped in the good old days. < 1438625203 546600 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In old rules, abilities of tapped artifacts stop working (including poly artifacts) < 1438625240 990408 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :scowling mine < 1438625302 966935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, when the rules changed so that tapping an artifact didn't blank its rules text any more < 1438625312 344293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some artifacts got erratad to say "as long as CARDNAME is untapped,…" < 1438625341 464927 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also used to be able to tap artifacts without a {T} ability, or something like that? < 1438625356 685963 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If they are mono artifacts, then you have to tap it to pay its activation cost < 1438625378 893401 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no longer "mono artifacts", any one that requires tapping says {T} < 1438625542 87524 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mono artifacts and poly artifacts were actually added in Alpha (and then removed later); before Alpha the type was just "artifact", the activation cost was listed next to the mana cost, and all activation costs required tapping unless it specified otherwise. < 1438625749 536328 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the modern lands with only the mana symbol in the text box was actually the original way before Alpha was released. Mana costs originally had "3RR" meaning "three manas, at least two of which are red". < 1438625762 215975 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Plains cards before Alpha had pictures of airplanes on them. < 1438625774 79326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think that's a better system. < 1438625793 518874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe even better is to take mana apart so that {R} is a linear combination of one colorless mana and one red. < 1438625809 294609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than one red mana. < 1438625864 791251 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought of a kind of "algebraic system" where it would be written as "2r+1" < 1438625873 377774 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if that system is actually better. < 1438625877 835152 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what Prismata uses. < 1438625902 539100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prismata has five resources: gold, green, blue, red, and energy < 1438625915 55172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gold and green persist past end of turn, the rest don't. < 1438625932 932657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually something costs some amount of gold and one or more of green, blue, red. < 1438625961 726170 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was thinking of this system before I ever played Prismata. < 1438626003 73147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, if y'all're interested, I think I have a couple of beta invitation codes left. < 1438626011 812559 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that'd get ugly when you get to mana with restrictions, such as the mana from the second ability of Sliver Hive < 1438626026 435403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, mtg has other things like that. < 1438626039 822801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has mana that gives a creature haste if it's used to cast it. < 1438626084 536568 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, I know of thing like that, I wouldn't use my system in Magic: the Gathering anyways; just idea for other kind of game to use something < 1438626102 797803 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ❎ < 1438626104 958254 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+274E NEGATIVE SQUARED CROSS MARK \ UTF-8: e2 9d 8e UTF-16BE: 274e Decimal: ❎ \ ❎ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) < 1438626118 697370 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: eg. if a Forest produces a colorless mana and a green color, you can't spend the colorless mana to Imperiosaur, and the green color (together with some colorless mana produced by Sol Ring) to a Giant Growth < 1438626123 638829 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone in Agora Nomic just voted ❎❎❎❎❎ a proposal. < 1438626129 259509 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're intrinsically fused < 1438626182 270940 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I conclude that this vote is insufficiently clear to be effective. < 1438626194 300884 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. < 1438626207 534324 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to CFJ the eventual resolution < 1438626219 337450 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it matters, I probably will. < 1438626220 800725 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is some crazy mana magic in M:tG. The craziest is probably Celestial Dawn. < 1438626222 851234 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't think this system is good for representing Magic: The Gathering mana. < 1438626224 334985 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, I know those kind of thing, but that is different from my own idea < 1438626229 876280 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :That vote could easily mean either FOR or AGAINST. < 1438626230 870035 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think it might be good for another game. < 1438626256 716250 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: maybe < 1438626264 344268 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cross mark tends to mean "no", but a cross mark in a box tends to mean "this one". < 1438626288 292251 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and False Dawn and Sunglasses of Urza. how do they even invent such cards outside of un-sets?) < 1438626307 652228 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't want to even know how those combine) < 1438626399 406883 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1438626437 296586 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why don't they just stick to cards that change what mana is produced, like Naked Singularity, or cards that actually recolor mana, such as Orochi Leafcaller) < 1438626456 921613 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: AdiIRC is updating to v1.9.7 Beta Build (2015/08/03)32 Bit < 1438626479 540861 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm thinking about tensor products of mana systems. < 1438626482 968306 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1438626494 30321 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, there are six types of mana: colorless, white, blue, black, red, green. < 1438626513 970348 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mana pool always contains some natural number (including zero) of each of these types. < 1438626518 645783 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1438626524 824207 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think the relevant rule is 609.4.) < 1438626528 871672 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :some mana has additional characteristics attached < 1438626532 348339 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: A natural number isn't enough, though. < 1438626543 18599 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, mana isn't necessarily fungible. < 1438626543 124930 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because each individual mana can have additional jams. < 1438626551 805906 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as whether it's snow, any spending restrictions, and special effects < 1438626554 422715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: are you necessarily fungible < 1438626554 528864 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and impose limit on output size < 1438626557 87775 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm pretty sure that under the tensor square of this system, each mana would simply have an ordered pair of these types. < 1438626581 265931 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :although technically none of that is intrinsic to the mana < 1438626603 456255 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh, I asked about how Imperiosaur works, as in, it checks the characteristics of the object that's produced the mana at what time (what the characteristics are when you pay, when the mana was produced, etc), but I don't remember the answer. < 1438626603 959357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the dual of a constraint? < 1438626608 290584 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski suggested "endowment" once. < 1438626624 936050 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1438626630 113658 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it is not that the mana has the property "produced by basic land" < 1438626638 849974 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that the game rules look at the history of the mana to figure out what applies to it < 1438626650 304550 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What is the effective difference here? < 1438626675 536340 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, but when does the object have to be a basic land? what if the object changes to a basic land or to no longer a basic land by the time I pay with the mana? < 1438626687 748046 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. don't know that one off hand < 1438626697 493486 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same applies to snow mana < 1438626710 331937 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's now two cards that change how mana empties from your mana pool. < 1438626719 347054 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules should be written as a literate computer program in order to make it more clearly. < 1438626720 903069 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There used to be more, but they affected only mana burn, which doesn't exist now. < 1438626994 132531 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is what I would do if I invented the card game, I think. If you don't understand some circumstance, put it into the computer and it will automatically calculate the answer. < 1438627566 919015 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although it can work even if you do not have a computer) < 1438627721 704948 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438627777 977513 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438627805 345254 :Froox!~Frooxius@50.141.34.168 QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1438627829 349967 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@50.141.34.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438627985 30993 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ledclqxtcckdbhjt JOIN :#esoteric < 1438628124 605949 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438628362 810597 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose I have a sorcery that says, "Tap target creature. You gain 1 life." < 1438628376 515304 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I cast this and gain 1 life from it if there are no creatures on the battlefield? < 1438628384 803598 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: no < 1438628407 390033 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this because it's impossible to cast a spell if it calls for a target and there isn't a legal one? < 1438628421 662797 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438628444 578221 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there is no valid target < 1438628447 703234 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If Evil were Midichlorians, this moose would be equal to THREE Darth Vaders" < 1438628463 127538 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: an example for a card like that is Vicious Hunger. a more extreme example is Hex. < 1438628467 201902 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it will work if there are creaturse but only tapped creatures in play, then you can target one that is already tapped, I think < 1438628494 907587 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right < 1438628602 164608 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: some cards require tapping creatures as a _cost_ for an activated ability, such as Springleaf Drum, those helpfully say "tap an untapped" though I think just "tap" would work technically if it's in a cost < 1438628623 799581 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because invalid actions are ignored, but invalid costs cannot be payed < 1438628631 408870 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is a cost then it has to be untapped at first < 1438628636 895626 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, it looks like if you somehow had a card with no characteristics, and you cast it, it would essentially behave as a sorcery. < 1438628642 579462 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But costs don't target anything < 1438628658 184643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :An annoying thing about Magic: The Gathering is that some cards let you target zero or more things. < 1438628659 190752 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :A spell only enters the battlefield upon resolution if it's an artifact, creature, enchantment, or planeswalker. < 1438628685 893393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you target a nonzero number of things, and then they all become invalid targets, the whole spell fizzles. < 1438628692 395775 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though you could have targeted nothing in the first place. < 1438628700 943951 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if its mana cost would be zero or unpayable. < 1438628702 108609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a scow interaction of rules if you ask. < 1438628712 855742 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: no, I don't think so. I think it would behave as an enchantment. but I don't think you can get a card with no type in the stack in any way. you can only get cards with no types as permanents, or as hidden cards. < 1438628728 131156 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: why do you think it would behave as an enchantment? < 1438628737 220819 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: as in, it would resolve < 1438628752 623503 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I would have it come into play and do nothing < 1438628759 829529 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the rules don't seem to really specify < 1438628788 179631 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: well, probably the rules don't really say, but the rules do say that Sorceries and Instants can't enter the battlefield < 1438628790 392287 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would try to come into play, and since it isn't an instant or sorcery, it would succeed, I think < 1438628812 594139 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the rules do really say. < 1438628813 942750 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :One moment. < 1438628849 143786 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :608.3. "If the object that’s resolving is a permanent spell, its resolution involves a single step (unless it’s an Aura). The spell card becomes a permanent and is put onto the battlefield under the control of the spell’s controller." < 1438628857 831767 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I definitely think you can get typeless cards only as permanents (where you can do it by taking away types) or as hidden objects (cards in a library, hand, exiled face down, or just drawn while you're casting a spell) < 1438628893 989435 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: but I think the typeless permanents (which are actually possible) sort of make a precendent, < 1438628910 683476 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see an esolang that can physically manipulate reality < 1438628915 93767 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that too much to ask? < 1438628925 273228 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1438628928 561051 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1438628930 586499 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: maybe. < 1438628940 950193 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: also note how all effects that copy spells specifically allow you to copy only sorceries and instants, and that nothing can add or remove sorcery or instant type on an object except by turning it face down or making it hidden or unhidden < 1438628959 149199 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I think rule 608.3 isn't really answering this strange question, because it doesn't tell you if it is a "permanent spell" or not < 1438628969 785799 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: typeless spells are by definition not permanent spells. < 1438628976 680664 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the definition of "permanent spell", that is. < 1438628985 567833 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: yes, but you can't get such a spell so it's not a problem < 1438628988 592198 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the rules don't give a resolution effect for typeless cards, so my assumption would be that they don't have any resolution effect at all. < 1438629004 535288 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: they'll fix the rules when there becomes a way to get such a spell < 1438629018 543297 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I suppose they would just act like sorceries, since they would have to get discarded < 1438629022 980568 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: can you give me an example of how a typeless permanent would come about? < 1438629027 826769 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or possibly they would get exiled instead, I don't know? < 1438629068 396635 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I would have avoided these problems by writing the rules as a literate computer program < 1438629121 611840 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: a way is to temporarily animate an artifact with March of the Machines, make it no longer an artifact with Neurok Transmuter, then unanimate it by removing March of the Machines < 1438629140 319694 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: there's other ways involving taking away some type, but this is the easiest to see < 1438629148 815870 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any of them are significantly different < 1438629196 125673 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I think March of the Machines would mean that artifact lands are no longer lands. < 1438629224 163859 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: no, there's a separate rule for "is an artifact creature" that makes it not so < 1438629227 164255 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's crazy < 1438629232 190358 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... weird. < 1438629242 703518 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :205.1b (in some version of the rules) < 1438629248 426500 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, #esoteric < 1438629251 284832 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :On leap years, February of the Machines < 1438629271 655634 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah. < 1438629273 437637 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made up the card that can remove all supertypes and subtypes of a spell < 1438629297 979459 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm... that would be strange. let me check what are all supertypes and subtypes these days. < 1438629325 423669 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supertypes are: basic, legendary, ongoing, snow, and world. < 1438629363 166387 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :These include (but are not limited to): World, Legendary, Snow, Aura, and creature types. < 1438629392 584147 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As well as planeswalker subtypes) < 1438629464 515839 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subtypes are: tons of creature types, a few dozen planeswalker types, three artifact types (Contraption, Equipment, Fortification), enchantment types (Aura, Curse, Shrine), land types (five basic land types plus currently Desert, Gate, Lair, Locus (hi land mirror thingy), Mine, Power-Plant (Urza-tron), Tower, Urza's), and spell types (Arcane and Trap). < 1438629469 797741 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's exhaustive. < 1438629474 220816 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what's the simplest card that would just break the game. < 1438629480 399129 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Delete target rule." < 1438629487 631480 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be pretty breaky. < 1438629488 333102 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no it's not, there's also plane types. < 1438629490 6941 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you cannot target rules < 1438629497 31294 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1438629498 566248 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But other than that, yes it break the game < 1438629530 783065 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438629547 91044 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules don't make rules a valid target; a target can be a player, object, or zone, I think. < 1438629552 638044 :hppavilion[1]!423ae75d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.231.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438629553 755872 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1438629564 648261 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then, "Choose a rule and delete it." < 1438629589 564003 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would break the game completely < 1438629600 331643 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: the simplest card that breaks the game is Little Girl I think < 1438629614 161311 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All cards become their own controllers." Except maybe cards can't be controllers. < 1438629664 438261 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cards can't control stuff, except with my variant rule where planeswalkers can control stuff other than planeswalkers or players. < 1438629675 583608 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that breaks either the game or a card (the Chaos Confetti way) if you try to measure its Soul's Majesty < 1438629679 975286 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm. < 1438629707 963607 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no really, there's tons of fun un-cards that break the rule in lots of interesting ways < 1438629714 213384 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Put all cards on the battlefield." < 1438629727 809718 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Play all cards as written. Ignore all errata." < 1438629737 7463 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm, was that an un-card? < 1438629739 285227 :_256Q!~toastyten@5.80.44.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438629739 339452 :_256Q!~toastyten@5.80.44.78 QUIT :Changing host < 1438629739 339517 :_256Q!~toastyten@unaffiliated/256q/x-9307863 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438629749 451151 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes. < 1438629760 622217 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe even better would be "Every card's flavor text is part of its rule text." < 1438629761 965260 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, R&D's Secret Lair < 1438629776 207343 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I gotta go see about networking. < 1438629798 179508 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had idea about the programming language to define the effect of the cards with. < 1438629798 899519 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I don't see how that's simpler than Little Girl < 1438629846 190740 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some stuff such as Chaos Confetti and "Choose a rule and delete it" are probably not possible to define with this programming language. < 1438629883 612282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Which programming language is this? < 1438629899 198069 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to invent a programming language for something like Magic: The Gathering cards, but then I decided that it was too complicated. < 1438629905 966300 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some that isn't quite invented yet < 1438629914 3277 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't see Chaos Confetti as really that bad, compared to some other un-cards < 1438629997 986706 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there's some un-cards where I'm not sure how bad they really are, like B.F.M. and S.N.O.T. < 1438630031 314662 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do Chaos Confetti if it has explicit rule support, which would require a host function macro (the function does not actually have to be implemented, but you must be able to identify it) < 1438630108 655819 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there's two ugly parts of Chaos Confetti: the Chaos Orb part which requires manual dexterity and requires that nobody moves cards on the table after it's cast, and the Blacker part which requires to destroy the underlying card < 1438630144 439703 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of those are bad from the perspective of what kind of game M:tG wants to be (Chaos Orb is banned), but they're not really that bad rules-wise I think < 1438630175 638899 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes, that is why I say, in order to implement with this programming language to make it mathematically defined, you must make a "external host function reference" < 1438630188 128161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish they updated the Oracle text of un-cards. < 1438630226 833467 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: for the Chaos Orb part, yes. for the Blacker part, possibly no, if you implement ownership of cards in the same system as the rules, which can be done in MtgO < 1438630230 334255 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hell NO! < 1438630246 157486 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1438630251 898109 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer that they deleted the Oracle text of many un-cards (keeping only the copy of the printed text); and update the Oracle text of the ones that can be use with normal game. < 1438630256 691386 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even though they are banned) < 1438630265 627653 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the un-rules manager who puts out un-rules faqs and makes un-rulings of the highest levels is Marc Rosewater, and he's very bad with templating, so if they updated Oracle text, they'd be crazy bad < 1438630281 904434 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so just no < 1438630289 121562 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want them to say "enter the battlefield" instead of "come into play" and so on. < 1438630301 635711 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: why would _that_ help? < 1438630324 130266 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For consistency with modern cards and rules. < 1438630339 643244 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Actually for ownership of cards, well, it doesn't have to MtgO, just it is remove from the sideboard too, so you cannot use it in multiple game of the match. < 1438630372 809288 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what happens with Blacker Lotus if you play a multi-game match and you tear it up in the first game? < 1438630377 806373 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Rule support for that function is still required though) < 1438630378 804098 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't play a second game with a 59-card deck. < 1438630391 728226 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Take a card from your sideboard to replace it. < 1438630398 890094 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if your sideboard is empty? < 1438630409 787235 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I suppose you have to concede before the game is started < 1438630440 493318 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think it has to be more than the match. it's the whole tournament, because you often have to use the same deck and sideboard for the whole tournament of multiple matches. < 1438630462 610557 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is that too, so you may have to concede the entire tournament < 1438630488 757167 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Wouldn't your deck be restored to the original list of cards between matches? < 1438630508 749916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance at the beginning of a new match you can't sideboard, you have to start with the cards that were in your deck originally. < 1438630521 807608 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that means that your whole deck resets, Blacker Lotuses included. < 1438630523 163609 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hmm... < 1438630526 338661 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on the tournament format I think < 1438630529 736022 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you replace it with a basic land? < 1438630538 719572 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some formats < 1438630586 442664 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some Limited formats you do not have to register the deck, and in that case it is allowed to sideboard at the beginning of a new match, I think < 1438630609 191396 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say replace it with a basic land in your deck or sideboard before the start of the next game or something < 1438630610 402946 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unhinged lands are TG. < 1438630616 643334 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but don't replace it during a game) < 1438630638 923512 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Hmm, I guess the same question might come up for ante cards. < 1438630655 164612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the ante cards are all banned because of that < 1438630670 775798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there's a ruling for Un sets that after destroying blacker lotus, you get to continue with the 59-card deck < 1438630674 168785 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there's some rule about how to "play without ante" and what ante cards do in that case I think < 1438630680 244797 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, they're banned, just like un-cards are < 1438630752 683626 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's Advantageous Proclamation that shows the game rules can handle smaller decks, 60 cards in constructed (40 cards in limited, 100 cards in some formats) is just the default minimum < 1438630802 787384 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1438630803 399763 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, making a deck of 40 Blacker Lotuses, destroying them in the first game against an easy opponent, and then winning with a 20 card deck would be too easy, so the rules should stop that < 1438630825 12387 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I'd say you have to replace them with basic lands before starting the next game < 1438630852 983772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contract from Below is TG. < 1438630865 513221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should play with ante. < 1438630902 183652 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nopw < 1438630906 699650 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should play without ante < 1438631253 602000 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438631503 689011 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-27-215.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1438631752 58503 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/birkenfeld/rick < 1438631868 139245 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can play with ante if you want to, returning the cards to whoever you borrowed them from after a match. If one player borrowed a deck from his opponent, then all cards you must give back to opponent afterward anyways. < 1438631893 573814 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But before that you can compare the cards you start with, with the cards you end with, to make up a score < 1438632055 572130 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a new kind of way to play with ante, even in Limited formats. You can also make it game/set/match so that card are sometimes return in the middle of a match too but not always < 1438632374 191101 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I had made up the rules I would want them to be more mathematically elegant < 1438632401 826981 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :York's university challenge team are VERY good < 1438632446 529531 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It sounds like you're not pro-ante. < 1438632488 491511 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm not. It's not a good mechanic, and the cards aren't good either. They're like old bad cards that make the game worse, sort of like Divine Intervention. < 1438632500 615659 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, are you advocating upping the ante < 1438632511 771682 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ante simply isn't a good idea in M:tG. < 1438632521 85786 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really just wanted to say it because it sounded like "pro-anti". < 1438632544 980545 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sorry, English puns don't always work on me, I have partial resistance. < 1438632553 836042 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough English to appreciate them. < 1438632600 283771 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not perfect resistance, some of them do work quite well, such as the "bore" pun in http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/1227.html < 1438632732 624828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What cards should I put in my Bearer of the Heavens deck? < 1438632779 710114 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Island < 1438632786 827026 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swamp < 1438632794 265556 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mountain < 1438632796 374050 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those cards < 1438632799 103835 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only those cards < 1438632800 654841 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure Island really fits. < 1438632800 711521 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Reknit, Boar Umbra, etc < 1438632801 647837 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make it work < 1438632817 111754 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: regenerate a few key permanents that let you kill the opponent when he's defenseless < 1438632821 229067 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(those were the only cards I could remember) < 1438632821 901951 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Regenerate? Why? < 1438632824 635784 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or make them indestructible, but that's harder < 1438632827 184622 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1438632837 440492 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other permanents, not the Bearer. < 1438632845 47378 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had things like Boros Charm in my old deck. < 1438632859 587924 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Bearer of the Heavens destroys most permanents, including lands, that can leave the opponent pretty defenseless if you prepare well < 1438632860 304678 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which was made with Innistrad-and-onward cards.) < 1438632867 379627 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that's the idea. < 1438632892 358427 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gift of Immortality has an interesting interaction with BotH. < 1438632911 767885 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you may need some defense against cards like Unmake or Swords to Plowshares that exile Bearer of Heavens < 1438632914 907760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also had Avacyn. < 1438632919 395715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a bunch of reanimation cards. < 1438632936 134411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I guess there are a lot more of those in Modern. < 1438632939 312145 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: plus I guess you need some tricks to accelerate into Bearer of the Heavens and some extra spells quickly enough < 1438632954 579425 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My old deck had a bunch of reanimation. < 1438632970 524346 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including Rescue from the Underworld, which works pretty well if you can get enough creatures for it. < 1438632988 264021 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, you'll reanimate it rather than pay for it? that can work too < 1438633009 621342 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might work even better if you can put it to play for just one turn... can that be done these days? < 1438633016 887818 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what format and what kind of environment is this? < 1438633039 650345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Modern on MTGO. < 1438633053 311909 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, "I think" < 1438633054 331063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The environment is all sorts of strange decks, probably not too competitive in general. < 1438633071 819765 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should probably decide the format first, before you build the deck < 1438633078 56399 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The format is Modern. < 1438633152 770968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't really know much about pre-Innistrad Modern. < 1438633194 319908 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... what's in the ban list of Modern? is Darksteel Citadel allowed? < 1438633209 21177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: IIRC darksteel citadel is allowed but not the other artifact lands < 1438633224 967900 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Boros Charm? that sounds like a really good idea < 1438633278 601410 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's apparently Terra Eternal < 1438633280 929423 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1438633285 60305 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't work, it helps the opponent < 1438633286 623118 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1438633291 705744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also had Tymaret, the Murder King. < 1438633293 615859 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :stick to Boros Charm and maybe some regeneration < 1438633304 701314 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some other things, I don't remember. < 1438633317 709999 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a reanimation card with Flashback. < 1438633324 923886 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so what are the plans for getting Bearer of Heavens into play? how quickly do you want to do that? < 1438633337 921029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my previous deck it took a while. < 1438633341 514643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe Modern has more options. < 1438633465 720053 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's some red card that puts it onto the battlefield then destroys it < 1438633470 255819 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sacrifices it < 1438633483 622671 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I remember a card like that. < 1438633494 234987 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it in the most recent set? < 1438633514 441888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I'm confusing it with the keyword ability that some cards have. < 1438633536 63681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evoke < 1438633563 963937 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, could you use some card that lets you sacrifice your permanents as paying for dealing damage to the opponent? < 1438633588 3828 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it might be hard to do with your lands < 1438633590 515165 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, assuming you can get it out onto the battlefield. < 1438633603 251006 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I misunderstood. < 1438633628 516003 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would both let you fling your goats before you get everything destroyed, and sacrifice Bearer itself < 1438633637 932992 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a card like that would be TG. < 1438633651 62575 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it let you turn lands into damage. < 1438633658 815900 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sure, it can't be one card < 1438633665 879986 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :animating all lands might not be worth < 1438633670 86976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you mean a bunch of flings, or something. < 1438633682 920170 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could still fling your creatures, assuming you have some other creatures that are useful < 1438633687 304497 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of want to put Gift of Immortality in just because it keeps destroying all permanents every turn. < 1438633698 273088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be great. < 1438633716 191922 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Goblin Bombardment < 1438633726 317189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you get to attack during all this? < 1438633728 361660 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some others if you're willing to pay mana < 1438633743 609880 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Hmm, interesting. < 1438633747 175738 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: During all what? < 1438633751 756211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the reanimation card with flashback is Dread Return, which is banned in Modern and one of the most important cards in top-tier decks in both Legacy and Vintage < 1438633755 352133 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, _after_ the bearer dies, with some other creature you regenerate < 1438633758 827167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the recursive Gift of Immortality loop < 1438633766 12207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, attacking with the Bearer itself < 1438633778 245101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, it enters the battlefield before the beginning of your turn. < 1438633804 974659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, not Dread Return. < 1438633810 170152 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Unburial Rites < 1438633820 41955 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also use Otherworldly Journey rather than regenerating creatures < 1438633847 479843 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, Boros Charm sounds like the best < 1438633881 479406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well if the opponent can't ever play anything that costs more than one mana, can't keep permanents around for a turn, and you get to attack every turn < 1438633892 248954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds pretty much like a win to me unless they're running Erase or something similarly specific < 1438633908 427151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1438633965 736011 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Dread Return sounds nice < 1438633999 476215 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, probably not Dread Return < 1438634000 811988 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1438634210 323384 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: There are also creatures like Obzedat, Ghost Council. < 1438634212 870155 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: try to search for existing deck lists with Bearer for ideas < 1438634222 776263 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I can do that. < 1438634256 245038 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems most cards that put something into play for one turn are careful and _exile_ it < 1438634276 884154 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some aren't, but they're harder to use, eg. Imprompty Raid < 1438634355 568556 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the card I was thinking of was Flameshadow Conjuring. < 1438634357 946587 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which exiles. < 1438634370 823841 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it makes a copy anyway. < 1438634375 933148 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely different. < 1438634385 448076 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it costs tons of mana, but there's Kiki-Jiki which sacrifices a copy of your Bearer < 1438634406 728086 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can save the original by eg. regenerating it or journeying it, and then you attack with it < 1438634419 516163 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :regenerating is better because you get to attack immediately < 1438634438 268443 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course the regenerated one will just get Doom Bladed < 1438634442 617663 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Kiki-Jiki also sacrifices it at end of turn, which means my opponent gets an extra turn before their permanents are destroyed. < 1438634479 616020 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um what? no? < 1438634490 908327 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they get an extra turn _after_ their permanents are destroyed, but before you get to attack < 1438634501 903990 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is much less of a problem < 1438634507 361744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kiki-Jiki sacrifices the copy of Bearer of the Heavens in the end step. < 1438634519 89237 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So its ability only destroys everything in the next end step. < 1438634528 179144 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1438634529 364146 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1438634532 4245 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1438634533 958027 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm designing a protocol called Extensible Internet Chat (XIC) :) < 1438634540 828192 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you're right < 1438634580 249202 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC works fine, but OK you can try other stuff too < 1438634673 278692 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an open protocol that, in my imagination, would replace IRC as a better chat. Probably won't, but I'm allowed to dream :P < 1438634684 41344 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dreaming isn't allowed on IRC. < 1438634699 393895 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's designed to introduce the IRC interface to the newer generation < 1438634715 652752 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like IRC, but less complicated and allowing File Transfers and such < 1438634739 522572 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Appears as TIKI < 1438634767 468230 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's Through the Breach which is like Kiki-Jiki < 1438634769 504507 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and it's utf8 < 1438634778 135376 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the world has non-english speakers in it < 1438634793 61119 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Through the Breach is interesting. < 1438634798 681905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: IRC already allows file transfers < 1438634808 301184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in practice, getting a DCC through a firewall can be hard < 1438634809 772504 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really!? < 1438634811 852267 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it has the same problems as Kiki-Jiki. expensive, works in enx of turn. < 1438634813 722563 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when!? < 1438634822 586472 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has the same disadvantage as -- yes. < 1438634830 859816 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1438634834 528505 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Since about 1991. < 1438634840 837076 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1438634851 572965 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It's expensive but it doesn't require a Bearer to be on the battlefield already. < 1438634854 958546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you can argue on whether DCC is part of IRC. < 1438634858 99104 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well MY file transfers don't need anything more than the ability to encode a file to Base64 < 1438634871 569293 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because THAT'S a good idea :P < 1438634873 625006 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: And CMC 5 isn't so bad. It's the same as an average reanimation spell. < 1438634885 664445 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meh, just tunnel the file through a channel instead of a separate socket. it's ugly because you have to base-253 encode it and split it to lines and add headers before each line so it grows a lot, but still. < 1438634906 673975 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1438634909 727077 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah, but now you need a way to put it to the battlefield, though that isn't too hard < 1438634914 710902 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugly piece of crap < 1438634923 710121 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ? < 1438634929 529913 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This protocol will, hopefully, be good < 1438634930 522198 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is simple and powerful enough as it is, I think. Most other protocols (such as XMPP) and so on tend to be very complicated < 1438634936 600776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Through the Breach puts it from your hand onto the battlefield. < 1438634943 728187 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/battlefield/graveyard/ < 1438634944 448031 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1438634945 75534 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And MUCH easier to implement < 1438634963 509854 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't see any good reason why to base64 if you're *not* trying to put something through a legacy thing not designed for it. < 1438634983 120833 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me? < 1438634988 820731 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: My old strategy was putting it in the graveyeard and reanimating it. < 1438634996 980780 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a newline problem when transmitting text files < 1438635002 641580 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played Faithless Looting and cards like that. < 1438635007 4075 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is that something that can work in Modern? < 1438635013 409138 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably too slow. < 1438635022 177181 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Through the Breach is probably no worse than that strategy, though. < 1438635056 776646 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :An XDCC bot with an esolang-related file archive is something we're sorely missing, but it's maybe a decare or two too late for that. < 1438635070 849805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decare is like a decade, but it cares more. < 1438635073 44502 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: isn't this something that you _don't_ want to reanimate in turn 3, because then you won't have enough resources to keep stuff from getting destroyed, and your opponent will be able to recover better than you? < 1438635087 244444 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1438635092 111153 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how this should work < 1438635098 510932 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another reason I'm making this protocol: IRC has entered a declien < 1438635109 195807 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It lost 60% of users from 2003 to 2014 < 1438635117 921858 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/declien/decline < 1438635123 311421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Reanimating it isn't so bad. You still have a 10/10 that your opponent doesn't want to destroy. < 1438635141 634412 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe in Modern there's a lot more exile. < 1438635150 525615 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Myst III: Exile < 1438635151 352184 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: maybe < 1438635168 188441 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he'll just chump block it forever < 1438635183 744805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, your opponent can bus. < 1438635209 385761 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not a terrible position, and as soon as you draw Boros Charm or Gift of Immortality or something you can use it. < 1438635236 24266 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gift of Immortality? < 1438635249 363261 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :had you mentioned that earlier and I missed it? < 1438635288 100218 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's nice < 1438635306 548765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's great. You get the Bearer back every turn. < 1438635478 732640 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, really stupid question, what if you regenerate Barren Glory? nope, too many combo pieces, too much mana, too easy to disrupt. < 1438635500 784118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: not to mention that you need a convoluted mess to regenerate an enchantment in the first place < 1438635518 100486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be easier to make it indestructable; I think there's a single card that does that < 1438635520 840525 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: convoluted mess? isn't there like Reknit? let me check that < 1438635531 368369 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reknit < 1438635535 224058 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Target player chooses any number not greater than X, loses that much life, draws that many cards, and then exiles the top Y cards of his/her library where Y is X minus the chosen number." < 1438635536 517257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1438635553 27728 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with overload) < 1438635563 823608 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's an interesting strategy. < 1438635566 819314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: without overload, that's broken at XB and strictly worse than an existing card at XBB < 1438635573 397902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seems tricky to pull off. < 1438635601 968810 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know that it is broken at XB but I was intending to be XBB, and with an overload ability too < 1438635609 324886 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think it works. it needs like three cards and a ton of mana, and disrupted very easily by any destroyer or countere. at that point you should have won ages ago. < 1438635612 80130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at XBB overload 0 it still isn't very good, because you'd basically never overload it unless the opponent was low on life < 1438635618 580646 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: also like two colors or three < 1438635635 978 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, two colors doesn't really matter if you have nine mana to spend a turn < 1438635636 24761 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1438635637 762462 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It's two colors but so is Boros Charm or Gift of Immortality. < 1438635638 640602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case you'd still prefer the existing XBB card because it would outright kill them < 1438635647 889488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, that's broken at XB (target yourself), and just pointless at XBB overload 0 < 1438635653 947446 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think overload 0 is too low, it should be at least X < 1438635655 57978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if it was XBB overload draw a card ;-) < 1438635674 885307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: overloading the card actually makes it worse, though < 1438635676 444688 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this with overload? < 1438635685 784434 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :overload on what? < 1438635688 59773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because exiling the top X cards of your library is not a very major effect unless X is very large < 1438635707 602193 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overload draw a card? Maybe... < 1438635713 148926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your opponent gets some amount of "lose 1 life and draw a card" effects of their choice, which is normally a good ability < 1438635730 387340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which can't be used to kill them because they can choose not to take them < 1438635731 873695 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, unless X is very large < 1438635758 373165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that card would be better as "each player draws X cards and loses X life" for XB < 1438635764 780672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :much simpler, too < 1438635777 20518 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is another kind of card < 1438635778 715042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if X is very large, though, you don't bother overloading it, you just aim it at your opponent < 1438635792 847978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the existing XBB card outright kills them in that situation < 1438635796 793369 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes I know < 1438635903 408869 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, just Fireball them for 20 < 1438635952 71638 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fireball is red card though < 1438635973 265561 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if they have a lot of life points, it isn't working < 1438635989 55702 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want blue or black? < 1438635990 478063 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even then, depending on the cube you are playing, some cards might not even be available < 1438636009 964515 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damnable Pact < 1438636012 255456 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Clearly which card you choose depend on blue or black. < 1438636024 519878 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have an oracle text and rules quoting bot on this channel? < 1438636028 281465 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or, red, green, white) < 1438636034 972665 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on this channel, I think < 1438636046 435750 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1438636074 272870 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does HackEgo listen other than on this channel? < 1438636085 946913 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1438636105 316883 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still send private messages although I don't know if there are any other channels that it does. < 1438636119 393059 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it listens to private messages? that changes EVERYTHING < 1438636135 584755 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :great! < 1438636153 978740 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any writes to filesystem made by private messages are still logged though, but as far as I know reads aren't logged. < 1438636166 288843 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's no problem is messages are logged < 1438636200 397057 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could upload a compressed oracle text database through private message in a few hours I think < 1438636208 340929 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can it download straight from web? < 1438636308 101451 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. But even the existing database they use some non-ASCII characters, and still includes reminder text, so for those reasons it isn't as good as it should be (actually there are some other problems with the text too) < 1438636358 136774 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what's the problem with non-ascii characters? < 1438636377 793272 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have more problem with flip cards and split cards and double-faced cards which they keep messing up inconsistently < 1438636426 457210 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though my main problem is that I still haven't made my scripts work with the new new Gatherer, so my only source of up to date Oracle text is from Yawgatog's, which is actually quite consistent and fixes all the flip cards somehow < 1438636452 5767 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should fix it but I'm lazy < 1438636459 333904 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new new Gatherer is just very stupid < 1438636490 84614 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yawgatog maintains one < 1438636499 141058 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do some of you download the full oracle text database from a source independent of yawgatog? < 1438636504 860842 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, and that's my only source right now < 1438636531 517416 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: before they created the new new Gatherer, I could use the new gatherer to download every card in a single page, and then parse it < 1438636550 676986 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if the new new gatherer allows that, but even if it does, I have to rewrite my scripts because they changed the format < 1438636570 469164 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't shy away from downloading hundreds of pages, I do that all the time, but I'm not interested enough about M:tG to do it these days < 1438636572 211823 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but even Yawgatog's has reminder text and stuff. I would prefer the format: Always {} for symbols, ~ when the card name refers to "this card", and only ASCII characters. < 1438636594 56581 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also found a JSON version, which has the same problems. < 1438636597 968314 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438636621 29370 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why "~" for "this card"? doesn't it already use {} for mana symbols and tap symbols, and [] for loyalty? < 1438636642 113965 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: reminder text is a part of the Oracle text < 1438636642 786491 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, if you do use the JSON version you can use a SQLite extension that I made up for reading JSON files < 1438636655 141379 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall if they fixed flip cards, but I think they haven't < 1438636656 126223 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes I know it is, but my opinion it shouldn't be < 1438636664 111073 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII is not correct, because the card names do not use exclusively ASCII < 1438636692 173098 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you can translate the card names into ASCII in a standardized format < 1438636699 449462 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you shouldn't need to < 1438636705 634439 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :get out of the 20th century < 1438636767 328231 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should use ASCII when possible. < 1438636798 795648 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1438636802 874884 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should use UTF-8 when possible < 1438636827 925247 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: exactly. Scéance; Æther Figment; Ærathi Berserker (probably the craziest one); Looter il-Kor (or is it Looter il-Kor?); Kongming, “Sleeping Dragon”; “Ach! Hans, Run!” < 1438636849 761194 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the craziest is when flavor text contains unitalicized parts < 1438636857 601020 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as emphasis < 1438636871 237139 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I believe you are wrong, you should use ASCII when possible, also converting the italics to normal texts. < 1438636893 275702 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the italics I don't mind < 1438636893 932707 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If ASCII won't do then you can use UTF-8 and other formats, but you should try to use ASCII < 1438636896 22452 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what would be the ascii for all of those card names above? < 1438636899 196661 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know why you would prefer ascii < 1438636905 434999 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when ascii is demonstrably unfit for the task < 1438636932 569254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1438636937 329468 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replace the ligature with "AE", the accented with no accents, quotation marks straight, and italic letters straightened. For foreign card names you should not use ASCII of course. < 1438637036 365513 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun part of en- and il- is that they're printed in italic in text boxes everywhere and in title bars of modern frame cards, but as upright in title bars of old frames < 1438637062 245317 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's possible that it's not actually a significant part of the card name < 1438637129 14255 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides en- and il-, what other cards get italicized text in their names? < 1438637175 946188 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe a few Un-cards might, you should check < 1438637176 38606 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe there is at least one < 1438637178 116429 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1438637178 725284 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the italicization of en- and il- is probably a design detail you should ignore, like the black and white mana symbols in Mirrodin text boxes < 1438637197 405344 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the italic has no rules significance, and you don't have to reproduce the italic when naming a card < 1438637228 927985 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The deck format I use requires that all card names are written in ASCII format, too < 1438637270 295185 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They also must use the English names, even if you have foreign cards in your deck) < 1438637290 357401 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the Gatherer doesn't show italic in the card name or card text in the Oracle text, which shows it probably doesn't matter < 1438637327 435357 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also Erase (Not the Urza's Legacy One) < 1438637328 909360 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how do you asciify Ærathi Berserker? with or without the Æ? < 1438637348 129494 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: heh, yeah < 1438637351 864182 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :By replacing it with "AE" < 1438637352 204304 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has the parenthetical typset smaller in the title box, but not the text box, and the name /Urza's Legacy/ italicized in the text box, but not the title box < 1438637369 148366 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although it is also case-insensitive, at least for unquoted text) < 1438637389 186910 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wait, with AE? not with Ae or nothing? < 1438637389 873224 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1438637393 525260 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you use AE < 1438637395 541755 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ugly < 1438637399 128933 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ae" is also valid, as it is case-insensitive. < 1438637435 209839 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And actually "Ae" is what I have used, but it doesn't matter as it is defined to be case-insensitive) < 1438637447 337992 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1438637454 40230 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there's Our Market Research < 1438637460 225605 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: please < 1438637464 257647 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :full names! < 1438637487 748997 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@vps2.conus.info QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1438637510 137313 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah... the full name does fit in an irc line < 1438637512 657603 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our Market Research Shows That Players Like Really Long Card Names So We Made this Card to Have the Absolute Longest Card Name Ever Elemental < 1438637841 761448 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's at least one card with rules text so long it doesn't fit in a single irc line < 1438637843 414920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1438637853 429434 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a bot would have to know how to split to multiple lines < 1438637863 544753 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, datatog does ;) < 1438637895 917407 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dance of the Dead and Master of the Hunt have quite long texts < 1438637940 365191 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK Ice Cauldron still holds the record < 1438637962 709574 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: probably depends on how you turn to character sequences < 1438637969 152193 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shorter in my version < 1438637987 82769 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you counting Oracle text or printed text? < 1438637989 867483 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oracle < 1438637995 87293 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that making a RVTP server and RVTP client would help. (The server does not have to be SQLite, although it might be easier if it is. If the client is SQLite that probably also makes it easier) < 1438637999 68264 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ice Cauldron's oracle text is too long to be printed < 1438638001 441753 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oracle, but in my old dump that's a bit reformatted < 1438638022 346153 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Dance of the Dead's too probably < 1438638024 376865 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Illusionary Mask's Oracle text is longer? < 1438638082 701752 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But SQLite does not yet support virtual table modules that can read LIMIT and OFFSET clauses) < 1438638096 352542 :hppavilion[1]!3ff12880@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.241.40.128 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1438638109 777582 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: my dump favors Dance of the Dead unfairly because I turn newlines to three characters < 1438638130 81495 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dance of the Dead has three < 1438638137 697491 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's old, I think Illu Mask has changed since < 1438638147 488308 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably fair as far as space utilization on the card goes. < 1438638149 479500 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how you treat mana symbols and such might also change stuff < 1438638192 417663 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ice Cauldron may have changed since too < 1438638195 237600 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1438638279 633791 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Camouflage (which has remainder text) and Riftmarked Knight and Tombstone Stairwell are also somewhat long < 1438638285 898859 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but again, old dump < 1438638321 950658 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1438638531 969429 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438638639 478285 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ideone.com/ZqytvO < 1438638923 348848 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438639077 591046 :rg_!~rg_@ool-457c9f2d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1438639085 924441 :x10A94!x10A94@178.252.73.97 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438639437 536700 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust neuralnet (>(+)*20>(-)*6)*5(>)*6([(+)*0[-]]>)*3([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(++++++-)*4[-]]>)*5([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1 < 1438639451 58246 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for tswett_neuralnet: 6.6 < 1438639460 544380 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... how good is that? < 1438639498 624049 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, here it is. http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt < 1438639501 956504 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's crap. < 1438639552 155229 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswellott! < 1438639559 40304 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. haven't seen jousting in a loooong time. < 1438639629 279332 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1438639635 246686 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, growth2 and preparation both win the great majority of the time. There is no program that beats both. < 1438639665 188435 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what an interesting NN URL. < 1438639665 985080 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.unicode: esolangs.org/list < 1438639680 728443 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jhellonas! < 1438639749 292376 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one's pretty interesting too: http://www./nick.com/8018/19/100/00621 < 1438639889 282154 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1438639918 799772 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly suspect that those aren't quite valid URLs... < 1438639919 342960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://ideone.com/ZqytvO <-- not that i particularly suspect you, but if you want people to visit your links, it's a good idea to speak enough to prove you're not a spammer < 1438639929 46837 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438639941 242107 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1438639953 403240 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aelloarnus! < 1438639954 583997 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought it was weird and wanted to share it < 1438639961 761153 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan! < 1438639973 29271 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i didn't notice you had spoken before i joined. < 1438639979 649623 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hullo boily < 1438639981 88731 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aearnus: isn't that the top link from /r/lolphp today? < 1438639995 727588 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :From today? Not sure, I was looking through all time < 1438640012 597147 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I used to hang around here under a different name, CrazyM4n < 1438640089 362690 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:CrazyM4n < 1438640102 209036 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like we never weren't there at the same time and/or spacetime combination. < 1438640144 280898 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor has such an incredibly stable idleness < 1438640153 34298 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:CrazyM4n14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43679&oldid=41432 5* 03CrazyM4n 5* (+71) 10 < 1438640333 557064 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aearnus: aha, welcome back < 1438640361 925112 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks! :p < 1438640370 908804 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a small formatting bug in the codu logs: the nickname field isn't _quite_ wide enough if someone maxes it out < 1438640396 65046 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't happen that often, but happened today < 1438640433 263382 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it line wraps < 1438640471 816722 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-27-215.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1438640574 760213 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, when's the last time Gregor spoke? < 1438640601 302194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away < 1438640630 385919 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 17 days whois gives _might_ be correct, or not. < 1438640734 457290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he changed nick on the 17th of july < 1438640771 364140 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next day i nagged him about codu's clock, which has since been fixed < 1438640792 641733 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no actual speaking was involved. < 1438640809 318868 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cod u nag him again twh < 1438640827 775015 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shellochaf. please be aware that that was a horrible pun. < 1438640858 573196 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :halexandre < 1438640873 537233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that pun was definitely fishy < 1438640896 628552 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boihly < 1438640906 291115 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mapoles shachaf and then oerjan on the rebound
< 1438640981 870094 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a mapole a maypole? < 1438640993 328790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION counts this as a great success
< 1438640999 564336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mapole < 1438641000 834553 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. < 1438641019 187977 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be < 1438641047 658669 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then if you keep looking at the definitions, you end up getting thrown for a loop. < 1438641059 468830 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spork and corkscrew would certainly be appropriate for festivities < 1438641091 424652 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I ever open up a café or something, I'm very tempted to call it “The Spork & Corkscrew”. < 1438641136 592260 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, you wouldn't call it the Sporkscrew? < 1438641138 94537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it have a whistling moose figure < 1438641143 674863 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find that difficult to believe hth < 1438641177 769182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sporkscrews are hard to hold properly tdnh < 1438641317 725981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom/*acallit | xargs -1 \? < 1438641319 781786 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xargs: invalid option -- '1' \ Usage: xargs [-0prtx] [--interactive] [--null] [-d|--delimiter=delim] \ [-E eof-str] [-e[eof-str]] [--eof[=eof-str]] \ [-L max-lines] [-l[max-lines]] [--max-lines[=max-lines]] \ [-I replace-str] [-i[replace-str]] [--replace[=replace-str]] \ [-n max-args] [--max-args=max-args] \ [-s < 1438641325 994008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1438641332 544502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom/*acallit | xargs -n 1 \? < 1438641333 711367 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/thwackamacallit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ wisdom/whatchamacallit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1438641339 214412 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1438641378 522940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat wisdom/*acallit < 1438641379 414822 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A thwackamacallit is like a whatchamacallit, but more painful. See mapole. \ A whatchamacallit is like a thwackamacallit, but less painful. < 1438641402 987160 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably going to have to call the place with a French name: «La cuillourchette et le tire-bouchon») < 1438641404 48682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :verycursive < 1438641427 726933 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, anybody know how to call a spork in French? < 1438641601 635992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuill%C3%A8re-fourchette hth < 1438641680 22064 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring :/ < 1438641698 543526 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer cuillourchette :D < 1438641819 701995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :from wikipedia's list, it appears that romance languages have portmanteauphobia < 1438641853 56150 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PORTMANTONS TOUTES LES CHOSES! < 1438641995 867121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh i cannot recall a norwegian word for it, by analogy with swedish/icelandic it should be skjaffel < 1438642018 882270 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is scared by the "skj"
< 1438642033 638504 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't let it skjewer you < 1438642066 985082 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thwackamacalls shachaf
< 1438642097 290969 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: it's pronounced approximately like english sh, although possibly more retroflex < 1438642138 163137 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might depend a lot on dialect < 1438642188 523662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i mentioned earlier, wikipedia cannot agree with itself on which sh-like sound it is < 1438642201 428337 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that still haven't been resolved yet? < 1438642218 909383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i didn't bring it up < 1438642228 821769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not enough of a phonologist to make a decision < 1438642234 405653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: oerjan doesn't like it when you bring up wikipedia issues to him hth < 1438642252 838277 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's on 3 different articles < 1438642254 284019 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll unbring the issue then. < 1438642299 407114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect it may differ between the dialects that have r-dental retroflex merging and those that have uvular r with no merging < 1438642326 338429 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also known as "uvul r" < 1438642329 358717 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for me to saturate what passes as my brains with doubtful things and a good wash of ethylic liquefaction. < 1438642334 724638 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ... < 1438642346 192494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the former may or may not consistently pronounce "rs" as the same sound. i cannot quite convince myself whether or not my own dialect does.) < 1438642346 511193 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *THWACK* AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! < 1438642367 808687 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: FUMIGATED CHICKEN < 1438642379 493655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly due to the difficulty of finding any minimal pairs between sj and rs < 1438642428 989439 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1438642433 960213 :rg_!~rg_@mobile-107-107-61-88.mycingular.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438642443 10093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the former only happen at the beginning of syllables, except when used as a forced spelling on loanwords. the latter only happens at the end of syllables.) < 1438642448 387149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+s < 1438642521 13906 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can there be a minimal pair involving two adjacent words/ < 1438642523 56232 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait the first part isn't quite true < 1438642556 690085 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, foo sjbar versus foors bar < 1438642574 888750 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 keeps putting me in mind of lenses < 1438642627 668249 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that was what i was trying to think of. Mosjøen vs. Morsjøen, except it's not really rs in the latter < 1438642670 502291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that might be as close as you get. and i cannot convince myself whether i really pronounce them differently. < 1438642707 181713 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there's also no convincing minimal pair between "t" and "ty" in Hungarian. the best I have is "Nagyatád" vs "nagyatyád" but I'm not sure the latter is a word < 1438642724 853489 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1438642780 438122 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically because "ty" is very rare < 1438642938 245916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall reading that h vs. ng also have no minimal pairs, possibly goes for both english and norwegian < 1438642968 800678 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um, in what language? < 1438642983 410013 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that because ng goes only before a g, but h never goes before a g? < 1438642985 586753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i just mentioned two hth < 1438643003 484309 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because ng never starts a syllable and h always does < 1438643023 192226 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably there's some compound exception there too < 1438643079 2155 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's how "h" works in English? ok < 1438643100 187446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well when actually pronounced < 1438643118 146012 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've no idea when "h" is actually pronounced in English. it seems random. < 1438643124 365451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1438643132 602779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it goes better for norwegian, then < 1438643144 905938 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm quite sure "h" doesn't have to start a syllable in Hungarian (though it often does) < 1438643153 835850 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.4.235.219 QUIT :Quit: Toodaloo < 1438643211 70214 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, a minimal pair between h and ng might be difficult still because you'd have to find a word with "hk" or "hg" which is somewhat rare < 1438643220 7784 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't use it to form digraphs, either < 1438643239 350145 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's especially rare if you don't want it in a boundary of a compound where it would be very hard to put an ng sound < 1438643243 293983 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might be impossible < 1438643308 522200 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, "h" is used to form digraphs in Hungarian, namely "ch" and "kh" exclusively in borrowings (mostly from ancient Greek or German) and "th" (in old traditional fancy spelling of noble family names) < 1438643346 160894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose we have that old fancy th too. (viz. Thue) < 1438643373 746060 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though "ch" and "kh" appear only in borrowings but is permanent in the sense that it is kept forever no matter how hungarianized the borrowing becomes, so they're effectively real digraphs < 1438643387 934287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in normalized spelling, ch/kh -> k, anyway < 1438643402 737236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in norwegian < 1438643432 960184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kiropraktor < 1438643470 221923 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"th" is not used productively, but kept in well-known old names including "Kossuth" and "Batthyány" < 1438643684 683422 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "h" is supposedly silent in some words where it appears at the end of the syllable, but nobody knows which words they are, basically it's silent when it'd be hard to pronounce (or by tradition or something) but that differs for everyone < 1438643863 422236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahtthyány < 1438643875 269834 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the random silent "h" is a rule made up by teachers to screw with students who have to learn it < 1438643885 552287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fahncy < 1438643941 628105 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438644065 427965 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we Anglophones have a lot of silent Hs? < 1438644133 385887 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: supposedly yes, but at _start_ of words, where Hungarian doesn't have any < 1438644135 600382 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nothing compared to gaelic < 1438644152 97560 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems totally random < 1438644158 457666 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "honor" has a silent "h" < 1438644173 968394 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1438644180 724931 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there's the word "herb". < 1438644182 429811 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think English has crazier fahncy noble family names < 1438644182 815947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because it's mostly in words inherited from french < 1438644191 977420 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a Tree-based language < 1438644196 723273 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of like a Stack-based language < 1438644200 743625 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WITH TREES < 1438644241 997901 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :English has something for silent consonants at start of words, I never understood it < 1438644266 778628 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows why < 1438644270 581816 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:B_jonas#Silent_initial_consonants has a partial list with written consonant clusters where the first letter is silent < 1438644291 701628 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but _those_ are at least consistent in that it either always happens for a letter pair or never < 1438644303 449818 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the initial "h" is apparently random, or at least I don't know the logi < 1438644323 116072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the logic is that it's silent if it was borrowed from french that way hth < 1438644344 489716 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, the most famous English one is I think Featherstonehaugh < 1438644344 544120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might depend on _when_ it was borrowed, i guess. < 1438644359 569523 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, and French has random logic for initial "h" too < 1438644402 321923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's because french lost it, regained it, then lost it again, or something? < 1438644432 261848 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also "ch", which in French is pronounced as /S/ most of the time, but sometimes as /k/ when it's borrowed from greek or something. < 1438644460 197792 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :English does that worse, because it has both "th" and "ch" which are sometimes pronounced as /t/ or /k/ when borrowed from greek < 1438644488 709448 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "chthonic" is the absolute most riddiculous combination of all that < 1438644505 60512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gin and chthonic < 1438644562 102632 :qlkzy!~qlkzy@li559-28.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1438644569 1951 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, it's pronounced with a /T/ or /kT/, not with a /t/ < 1438644593 459673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1438644597 577730 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "th" is pronounced as a /t/ when it's borrowed from latin or french, not when it's borrowed from greek, or something < 1438644616 85867 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas "ch" is pronounced as /k/ when it's borrowed from greek? < 1438644617 565285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1438644618 445729 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know < 1438644626 761846 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you just have to learn the individual words < 1438644656 872093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that greek changed its pronunciation from /t/ to /T/ < 1438644663 320342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might depend on time again < 1438644681 535952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technically, _aspirated_ /t/) < 1438644697 498510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is of course the usual for germanic languages < 1438644749 720236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not for hungarian afair < 1438644805 333257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(germanic sound change was /t/ -> /t^h/ and /t^h/ -> /T/) < 1438644825 622528 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1438644862 653714 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good eving < 1438644944 757430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :/d/ -> /t^h/ and /t/ -> /T/, i mean < 1438644956 616974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimm%27s_law < 1438644991 778195 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :th in english is pronounced as a voiceless interdental fricative, except in a very limited set of words where it is voiced < 1438645002 516448 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegian since turned the /T/ back into /t^h/ < 1438645048 73790 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some relevant words with the rarer pronunciation are: Thomas, echo, chameleon, chaos, character, chemistry, choir, cholera, chronic/chronicle/chronology/chronometer < 1438645066 799485 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the", "this", "their", "then", "there", "that" are all voiced < 1438645071 891421 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sometimes, if it had been voiced, /d/ or //, iirc < 1438645097 752002 :qlkzy!~qlkzy@li559-28.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1438645139 233236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i don't have any trouble with the ch ones, but i was pretty old until i fully realized the th exceptions even existed < 1438645153 837912 :Aearnus!uid103822@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgnamxzbrakyfunm PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fascinating < 1438645166 737436 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: other, too < 1438645177 877274 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether < 1438645182 770221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hither and dither < 1438645221 749620 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :southern, northern, but not in south or north < 1438645222 67748 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you probably pronounce "chronicles" with "ik" rather than "ike" < 1438645244 304060 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wut < 1438645246 117657 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn;t it ik? < 1438645249 885883 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's certainly how i pronounced it until i had to learn the english pronunciations of the books of the bible < 1438645286 220339 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: argh wiktionary doesn't have the pronunciation of that < 1438645312 51431 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think that most english speakers say kron ik lls < 1438645326 433895 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where ll is a sylabic L < 1438645333 147842 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to be among those english speakers < 1438645386 896718 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etymylocially it should be kron eek lls < 1438645404 687530 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from latin < 1438645453 497371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: that's not very convincing, you have to consider the great vowel shift < 1438645461 886225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are doing actual etymology < 1438645486 873709 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my oxford english dictionary has a short i < 1438645497 148714 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for "chronicle" < 1438645503 940003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's how they pronounce it in oxford < 1438645516 56294 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that google translate uses short i in its pronunciation
< 1438645535 319964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=define:chronicle hth < 1438645535 640393 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1438645573 863950 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me I need to add IPA to my font < 1438645575 639791 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what do you think is the probability that a random TM is universal as states and/or symbols goes to infinity? < 1438645589 469330 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you know that define: doesn't work if you're using google with norwegian settings tdnh < 1438645611 61605 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define:chronicle hth < 1438645628 643218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1438645655 575097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well that's definitely not the "ike" sound < 1438645655 777293 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have partially fixed my gopher service now; not all files are available yet, but the server works < 1438645661 798293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that helped xtremely? < 1438645669 587301 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, i was pulling your leg < 1438645690 103989 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the most common exceptions for "th"? besides Thomas, there's apparently Thames, Esther, Mathias, Mathilda, plus a few words where the th is apparently simply silent because Englishman are lazy to pronounce consonant clusters < 1438645692 485038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: pulling my leg is scow tdnh < 1438645709 621734 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where Mathilda is some obsolate spelling of Matilda < 1438645718 775924 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I went through the books of the bible and kept laughing at how ridiculous the translations to English were. < 1438645735 517601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if it was pronounced "chronicles" instead of "chronicles", I said. < 1438645750 163842 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since then I've been pronouncing it that way. < 1438645761 29718 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :bionicles < 1438645772 114433 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1438645778 543219 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually my last sentence is the only thing I said on this topic that wasn't completely true.) < 1438645968 147954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only because you just hinted at implications rather than outright stating them, i guess < 1438646023 890576 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :one might say that you were pulling your own leg < 1438646046 158214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too." < 1438646075 549601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did stop myself from typing that last part. < 1438646104 950659 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. it's quote mitch hedberg hour. i approve. carry on. < 1438646179 755788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: thyme hth < 1438646183 461954 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a dictionary too it says with the short sound < 1438646233 272452 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The dictionary I have on my shelf is Webster though) < 1438646279 280247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i don't really know him so i cannot quote any more. btw i'm not sure of that probability, and it might be different for states and symbols... < 1438646300 873314 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok < 1438646304 400101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :states and symbols? < 1438646305 781387 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? thyme < 1438646306 909390 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano. < 1438646309 755053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it Chu space hour? < 1438646317 63383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: see above < 1438646317 475051 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://chu.stanford.edu/live/#7 < 1438646330 434989 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chu spaces are TG. < 1438646332 705827 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it is IV hour < 1438646343 972169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does IV mean 4? < 1438646347 293488 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Almost is V hour) < 1438646352 856174 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say that it's XVI hour. < 1438646359 232698 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, it is < 1438646367 547640 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost XVII hour. < 1438646385 528253 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: got no intuition on it? < 1438646388 21511 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You aren't supposed to use more than 12 hours with roman numbers