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02:03:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43701&oldid=43688 * Quintopia * (+817) /* BF Constants Cleanup */
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04:42:44 <Aearnus_> 'COBOL was intended to a be a highly portable, "common" language. However, by 2001, around 300 dialects had been created.'
04:52:52 <Hoolootwo> that's true of many, many languages
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05:53:09 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: i suppose that could mean being a vampire and so on <-- i think we've clearly established vampires aren't the same people as the originals.
05:53:28 <shachaf> oerjan: ok, well, some other kind of undead thing
05:53:36 <shachaf> not sure why vampires were on my mind
05:53:52 <oerjan> maybe a golem like crystal was
05:54:09 <oerjan> although apparently her keeping her personality was unusual.
05:54:25 <shachaf> maybe it wasn't her personality but a clone of it
05:54:36 <shachaf> i,i http://themindi.blogspot.com/2007/02/chapter-23-unfortunate-dualist.html
05:59:13 <oerjan> reminds me of a story about the buddha i read in tezuka's manga
05:59:39 <oerjan> he resurrected a dead girl, but he did it by return an essentially _random_ soul into her body
06:00:24 <oerjan> because souls had no individuality preserved once they left the body
06:03:44 <shachaf> There was the theory in that book that there's just one global soul that zips back and forth between everyone zillions of times a second.
06:04:29 <oerjan> i have thought similar ideas
06:04:57 <oerjan> as in, if continuous identity is an illusion
06:05:15 <oerjan> and we really are a random person each moment
06:05:37 <int-e> mmm. Thief of Time.
06:06:28 <shachaf> oerjan: those books by smullyan talk about all sorts of things along those lines
06:06:29 * oerjan hasn't read that, but is now reminded of michael ende's momo
06:06:44 <int-e> momo is nice, too.
06:06:53 <shachaf> not very well known around here
06:07:15 <shachaf> i read all sorts of german children's books
06:07:57 <shachaf> It's very difficult to get a copy of Jim Knopf in English around here. :-(
06:08:29 <shachaf> There was one printing decades ago or something.
06:08:44 <shachaf> Nowadays the copies that are floating around cost hundreds or thousands of dollars.
06:12:50 <shachaf> Remember _The 35th of May_?
06:13:41 <shachaf> how about _The Flying Classroom_
06:14:20 <shachaf> how about _Emil and the Detectives_
06:17:53 <shachaf> http://www.amazon.com/Locomotive-trip-Complete-Works-button/dp/4000920413
06:18:07 <shachaf> i'm feeling slightly suspicious about this product for some reason
06:25:45 <shachaf> "Englisch Lernen mit Jim Knopf und Lukas dem Lokomotiv-Führer 1 by Michael Ende"
06:44:54 <mroman> how can I tell browser to cache my css
06:51:09 <mroman> Dosen't look like my hoster supports mod_headers or mod_expires
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07:28:45 <oerjan> mroman: see shachaf's line
07:38:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43702&oldid=43687 * Rdebath * (+103) Fix the >255 examples too.
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07:44:17 <mroman> http://www.finanzmonitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/vergleich-kosten-franchisen-4k.gif
07:47:41 <mroman> only the 300 and 2.5k Franchise are actually useful
07:48:02 <mroman> the other ones don't really need to even exist
07:58:08 <mroman> also the Go Pro Chest-Harness Angle totally sucks
07:58:16 <mroman> it's like filming the floor
08:06:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43703&oldid=43701 * Rdebath * (+752) /* BF Constants Cleanup */
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08:12:11 <mroman> What moron uses sprintf %s for queries
08:12:46 -!- Pirozhok-ii has left ("Quit").
08:15:31 <mroman> Poorly secured backdoor user that compromises all security measurements. This user is located in file '/db/valid.users' and has user name '****__DO_NOT_REMOVE_THIS_ENTRY__****'.
08:15:35 <mroman> That's a good username though.
08:16:00 <mroman> password = 'nohalp' #DO NOT CHANGE THIS
08:21:14 <b_jonas> Everyone, the ICFP contest starts in a few hours.
08:29:48 <int-e> no time... traveling
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08:52:42 <oerjan> pressed q by accident in one of tatham's puzzles again
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09:06:07 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/html.html
09:06:10 <mroman> single best page on the web .
09:11:11 <int-e> http://cl-informatik.uibk.ac.at/users/bf3/tmp/bot/b/IMG_1161.JPG
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09:12:55 <int-e> (I think that's prettier)
09:12:59 <Jafet> Sergeant Atham's puzzles.
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09:44:18 <mroman> fungot: Do you know füngöt?
09:44:18 <fungot> mroman: how do you represent an expression and an environment, a compiler will error if you add loops. the c/ c++
09:44:30 <mroman> fungot: That's not a good compiler then.
09:44:30 <fungot> mroman: i can initialize an accumulator at the first
09:44:57 <mroman> `learn füngöt is the french pronunciation of fungot.
09:45:23 <HackEgo> Learned 'füngöt': füngöt is the french pronunciation of fungot.
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09:59:25 <mroman> although this new algorithm can't remove reflections from a single image
09:59:40 <mroman> but requires a serious of images with different angles
09:59:46 <mroman> it's still very impressive though.
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11:02:36 <boily> `le/rn füngöt/Füngöt is the French pronunciation of fungot.
11:02:36 <fungot> boily: quite tired even though slept at least seven hours. ping. but! the soon-to-come new, shiny version will be run on
11:02:51 <boily> fungot: you are füngöt.
11:02:51 <fungot> boily: mine isn't that elegant, i guess.
11:03:49 <boily> mroman: mrelloman. wouldn't «fûngôt» be frenchier than the diæresed version?
11:04:11 <b_jonas> yeah, füngöt is the German pronunciation
11:04:30 <b_jonas> fun-goat is the English pronunciation
11:05:54 <boily> b_jellonas. what about fűngőt?
11:16:59 <mroman> füngöt uses german letters to describe how stereotypical french people would pronounce it ;P
11:17:13 <mroman> well.. how german thinks they would pronounce it
11:17:24 <mroman> no data of an actual french speaker is yet available
11:17:56 <boily> I think I'm a French speaker.
11:19:17 <boily> /fʌn'gʌt/ is pretty close to how I say it.
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11:19:53 <fungot> boily: i know the basics
11:20:09 <fizzie> fungot: Basics of French?
11:20:10 <fungot> fizzie: would be cool. i looked up web 2.0" me, earlier today i used ' globally' loosely ther
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11:28:31 <Skin> Ah yes the zora queen is here
11:28:39 <Skin> from linkbetweenworlds
11:29:15 <fungot> b_jonas: phew. got the prob.
11:29:30 <b_jonas> fungot: yeah, me to, me to, but it will end in a week
11:29:30 <fungot> b_jonas: yeah. just that it turns fnord operators into fnord and then nickname
11:29:59 <Skin> Fungot is replying like a human
11:31:11 <oren> fungot is a sentient robot with one flaw: fungot only responds when mentioned
11:31:11 <fungot> oren: i hope sarahbot has restraint built in on those evals))
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12:08:41 <TieSoul> wow, fungot's replies are oddly relevant
12:08:41 <fungot> TieSoul: the compilation is well-typed? you run two, one after another, like soldiers marching into the sea.... xd
12:09:05 <TieSoul> does it use Markov chains?
12:09:10 <b_jonas> fungot: lemmings. they're lemmings, not soldiers.
12:09:10 <fungot> b_jonas: the same line numbers any more power than simple transfers etc.
12:09:18 <fungot> b_jonas: i like the fact that it's the most i've seen of frtime and flapjax they actually use dataflow to only update things when needed as opposed to
12:09:29 <b_jonas> fungot: that's actually a different layer.
12:09:30 <fungot> b_jonas: i don't really feel like wgetting a video, opening up xine and deleting a file just to see if the c-intercal install works. i don't
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12:14:07 <b_jonas> is it some sort of tetris?
12:19:21 <oren> i'm spending the morning feeding a cute tiny dog bits of chicken
12:20:50 <TieSoul> https://gist.github.com/TieSoul/3b123c4ec05a95dd4b09 I just thought up a simple stack-based language, not sure if it's turing complete
12:21:08 <TieSoul> it's pretty annoying to write in though
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12:22:09 <oren> def not. needs some sort of loop either recursive or jumping
12:22:44 <oren> oh it has a loop
12:23:09 <oren> ok then it probably is
12:24:13 <TieSoul> there's still one instruction I want to add, but I don't know what to have HELP do
12:24:22 <TieSoul> maybe HELP would get a number from input?
12:24:42 <TieSoul> but there's no numeric output so that doesn't make too much sense
12:24:58 <oren> you need another memory other than the stack
12:25:19 <oren> right now this is a PushDownAutomatorn
12:25:54 <oren> (a rotate-stack instruction could also work)
12:27:40 <TieSoul> maybe HELP can rotate the entire stack by 1
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12:54:53 <Jafet> That would indeed give a lot of help.
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12:58:10 <Jafet> Looking at the test programs, you might want to rename I to OH, and WITH to MAN.
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14:26:00 <mroman> Is there a VB.NET Parser in Haskell?
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14:40:40 <mroman> I could do something horrific
14:40:44 <mroman> like compiling Lisp to VBS!
14:40:55 <mroman> Where's your fungod now!
14:46:20 <mroman> Prelude Data.RLON> validateAgainst "main ::= (def #NAME [(args {#NAME})])" "(def main)"
14:46:27 <mroman> crap. My RLON validator has a bug?
14:47:37 <oren> Visual Basic isn't as bad as PHP.
14:48:19 <oren> Visual basic has consistency, even if it's the consistency of vomit
14:49:13 <mroman> *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "main ::= (def #NAME {(args {#NAME})})" "(def main)"
14:49:21 <mroman> this should be True as well o_O
14:51:38 <mroman> https://github.engineering.zhaw.ch/munt/RLON/blob/master/src/Data/RLON.hs#L63
14:51:42 <mroman> looks like that is the issue
14:58:06 <mroman> v:vs probably does not match empty lists
15:04:06 <mroman> matches_t m (RLON_T_Object key ((RLON_T_Optional a):vs)) (RLON_Object key' []) = True should fix that
15:12:21 <mroman> {[$arg]} and [{$arg}] aren't really working
15:13:45 <mroman> [{$arg}] and {[$arg]} are the same thing as {$arg} anyway
15:17:09 <mroman> http://codepad.org/fYyWA8kr <- ok that works now
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15:17:59 <mroman> except 'exp' will also match invalid ifs
15:19:11 <mroman> ok my validation language isn't powerful enough to check lisp programs :(
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15:40:33 <HackEgo> Füngöt is the French pronunciation of fungot.
15:41:17 <oerjan> `` run sed -i 's/French/German/' wisdom/füngöt
15:41:25 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/French/German/' wisdom/füngöt
15:41:46 <oerjan> mroman: please show some linguistic plausibility twh
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15:58:38 * oerjan learns that each ghci line with a declaration is its own module
15:59:00 <oerjan> named GhciN where N is the line number
16:01:29 <shachaf> each line of output is also its own module, named GhcouT
16:02:29 * oerjan pats his swatter. "This is below your dignity."
16:02:49 <shachaf> i did not realize it was possible to stoop so low
16:03:17 <shachaf> swat of the FireFly, governor?
16:04:38 <oerjan> btw here's how to see it: data A = A\nlet x = A\ndata A = A\n:t x
16:05:59 * oerjan was of course testing if there were any other way to confuse ghci about the identity of entities, or their TypeReps. looks pretty safe so far.
16:06:32 <shachaf> oerjan: by the way someone else made a different version of the bf thing
16:06:41 <oerjan> ghci lines and loaded (non-package) modules get thrown into package interactive and main, respectively.
16:08:29 <oerjan> i suppose this is all written somewhere.
16:09:11 <oerjan> shachaf: that doth look simpler
16:10:07 <shachaf> thou dost look simpler hth
16:12:16 <shachaf> it cleaned the code up as surely as i clean windows, and boily doth wisdom.pdf, and thou dost dust
16:12:50 <oerjan> hm that's with the (loop' ...) syntax rather than loop (...)
16:13:31 <oerjan> shachaf: i think that has the [[]+] problem
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16:17:29 <oerjan> what _is_ with people pasting code and leaving out all the pragmas
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16:18:24 <TieSoul> https://gist.github.com/TieSoul/3b123c4ec05a95dd4b09 I have now included the interpreter, made sure to use bad programming conventions while programming it.
16:18:40 <TieSoul> also swapped OH with AM and MAN with WITH
16:19:42 <oerjan> *Main> run $ loop' plus
16:20:04 <oerjan> shachaf: now how do you get []+
16:20:15 <TieSoul> for those unaware this is based on http://www.reddit.com/r/ooer
16:20:46 <oerjan> on the bright side, it should only break at the top level
16:22:11 <TieSoul> now to try again for a hello world program lol
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16:41:23 <oerjan> AAAAA boily's chickens are turning japanese
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16:48:18 <oren> idea: create a C++ object called _ such that you can take a bf program, place _ all over it, and prepend #include "bf.hpp" and it will comile and run
16:49:01 <oren> [+] becomes _[_+_]
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16:52:11 <oren> [-]+++[>++<+] becomes _[_-_]_+++_[_>_++_<_+_]
16:52:49 <oren> (or any other series like that that fits c++ grammar)
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17:07:59 <TieSoul> I don't think _++_ is lega?
17:08:21 <FreeFull> I know there is a C++ template version of brainfuck
17:15:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Iisu * New user account
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19:05:13 <b_jonas> `perl -emy$f=1103515245;my$t=12345;my$s=17;for my$k(0..9){ print+((($s>>16)&((1<<15)-1))),", "; $s=(($s*$f+$t)&((1<<32)-1)); }
19:05:37 <HackEgo> 0, 24107, 16552, 12125, 9427, 13152, 21440, 3383, 6873, 16117,
19:08:14 <ais523> b_jonas: is that the example implementation of rand() in the C standard, but translated to Perl?
19:09:18 <b_jonas> ais523: a random generator, I don't know if it's the one in the C standard or not, but it's the linear congruence random generator used in ICFP 2015, and the seed and output sequence given in the specs so you can verify your implementation of it.
19:09:39 <ais523> b_jonas: I think it's the one in the C standard
19:09:46 <ais523> also, when is ICFP 2015? has it already happened?
19:09:54 <ais523> I'm not in a mood to participate but I'm curious about what the challenge is
19:10:21 <b_jonas> ais523: http://icfpcontest.org/
19:10:31 <ais523> huh, they have their own website now?
19:10:38 <ais523> they used to use random pages on universities' servers
19:10:58 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, it's indeed a well-known random generator sequence, called gsl_rng_rand in libgsl, and let me check if the C++ standard or boost has it too
19:11:04 <ais523> hmm, started 8 hours ago
19:11:38 <b_jonas> ais523: they have had that domain name for a few years now, which is sad, because it means last year's website isn't accessible now, and for three years they haven't bothered to link to the websites of previous years' contests
19:12:08 <b_jonas> I have links for the 2013 and 2012 contests, and to a list of the previous ones, though some of the older ones' websites are not accessible anymore
19:12:12 <b_jonas> I don't have them archived though
19:12:31 <b_jonas> http://icfpc2013.cloudapp.net/ , http://icfpcontest2012.wordpress.com/ , http://icfpcontest2012.wordpress.com/previous-contests/
19:13:11 <b_jonas> ais523: also, on freenode, at least #icfp-contest and #haskell-blah has some discussion about the contest
19:17:39 <b_jonas> nope, C++ standard doesn't have that particular random generator predefined, and in fact, std::linear_congruential_engine can't even be parametrized in a way that it gives exactly that
19:21:34 <b_jonas> I think the C++ standard and boost doesn't have an implementation for this particular rng, only gsl does, but of course you can implement it in like one short line (shorter than what I gave above, that one has way too many parenthesis and operations)
19:22:38 <ais523> this sounds like a golf contest
19:22:44 <ais523> although some joker would probably win it just by using rand()
19:23:34 <b_jonas> anyway, ICFP 2004 has used a similar linear congruence generator in the specs, but not exactly this one
19:25:26 <b_jonas> they use one that might be using a multiplier origianl to them
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19:30:03 <b_jonas> `perl -emy$f=22695477;my$t=1;my$s=12345;for my$k(0..39){ 3<$k and print $s>>16&(1<<14)-1,", "; $s= $s*$f+$t&(1<<32)-1; } # ICFP 2004 random generator
19:30:08 <HackEgo> 7193, 2932, 10386, 5575, 100, 15976, 430, 9740, 9449, 1636, 11030, 9848, 13965, 16051, 14483, 6708, 5184, 15931, 7014, 461, 11371, 5856, 2136, 9139, 1684, 15900, 10236, 13297, 1364, 6876, 15687, 14127, 11387, 13469, 11860, 15589,
19:30:43 <b_jonas> and no, not original to them, it's the generator used in the borland C compiler library
19:31:34 <b_jonas> see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_congruential_generator#Parameters_in_common_use which lists both of these
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19:40:58 <J_A_Work> are there any esolangs in clojure or rust besides brainfuck implementations yet?
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19:53:50 <Aearnus_> J_A_Work: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#Rust
19:55:06 <ais523> deadfish doesn't really count
19:55:43 <myname> make an implementation of eodermdrome
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20:00:22 <Taneb> Make in implementation of Eodermdrome in Rust's macro system
20:14:03 <J_A_Work> i thought about doing some kind of really irritating stack based language
20:15:05 <Taneb> Or FALSE, or Underload...
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20:35:12 <shachaf> Taneb: flying to new york today
20:35:21 <shachaf> Taneb: can i expect to find any haskell compilers
20:35:30 <Taneb> shachaf, you've misunderstood the name
20:35:40 <Taneb> It's the New (York Haskell Compiler)
20:36:14 <shachaf> Oh, I thought it was a compiler that compiled New (York Haskell)
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20:42:53 <Taneb> That is a common misunderstanding
20:43:32 <b_jonas> wait what? wasn't it compiled in Glasgow?
20:43:38 <fizzie> I thought it compiled "New Haskell", and the York was an infix operator.
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20:48:13 <J_A_Work> Aearnus_: that was so gonna be my joke but then i got distracted.
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21:01:19 <b_jonas> ais523: it turns out a regular haskeller you might have seen in #haskell is an organizer of ICFP 2015, just like how dcoutts was last year.
21:01:27 <b_jonas> ais523: we just didn't know that because he was sleeping or something
21:01:35 <ais523> b_jonas: I hardly ever visit #haskell
21:01:47 <ais523> believe it or not, being in #esoteric doesn't automatically make you a Haskell fanatic :-)
21:02:01 <b_jonas> ais523: I'm not a fanatic either. but I know you visit multiple channels, so you may have seen him.
21:02:07 <ais523> given that I use OCaml for my day job, I may be contractually obliged to frame-war you now?
21:02:10 <b_jonas> And if you haven't, other people here may have.
21:02:28 <b_jonas> ais523: what? I don't have to be a fanatic of haskell to join the channel
21:02:39 <b_jonas> shachaf: join #icfp-contest and find out
21:02:56 <shachaf> I'm not going to be able to participate in the contest.
21:03:11 <b_jonas> shachaf: you don't have to participate the contest to join a channel
21:03:11 <shachaf> I'll be flying to New York when it starts.
21:03:24 <b_jonas> shachaf: it's already started
21:04:13 <b_jonas> and I'm going to be on vacation in Sweden when it ends, flying during the contest
21:05:03 <shachaf> b_jonas: Joining the channel hasn't answered my question.
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21:05:31 <Taneb> shachaf, it was ME! (it was not me)
21:05:49 <b_jonas> shachaf: the four nicks starting with galois_ (plus galois_yav who is quit now) are organizers
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21:08:12 <shachaf> b_jonas: Oh, one of the galois_ folks is an impostor.
21:08:13 <Taneb> Maybe next year I will not accidentally be doing other things during ICFP contest
21:08:21 <shachaf> Not non-Galois, but non-organizer.
21:08:26 <b_jonas> shachaf: no, though it's hard to tell
21:08:27 <shachaf> https://twitter.com/ICFPContest2015/status/629719239381811201
21:08:46 <b_jonas> shachaf: I asked, and another organizer confirmed him as an organizer in irc
21:08:54 <b_jonas> they should put that to their homepage
21:12:40 <b_jonas> Oh! The ICFP contest homepage now says “The unpredictability of the eldritch forces involved makes it impossible for us to provide precise information on time and memory resource availability during the time of final judgement. However, we can guarantee that sufficient resources will be available to accommodate the overhead of any earthly programming language or runtime system.”
21:12:46 <b_jonas> that sounds like a challenge for esolangers
21:13:06 <shachaf> i feel like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Diplomacy#Backstabbr doesn't quite live up to the usual wikipedia standards
21:13:08 <b_jonas> do you guys have an implemented earthly esolang runtime system with LOTS of resource requirement?
21:13:30 <shachaf> "purely a product of passion"?
21:13:39 <ais523> shachaf: you can always remove it and see if anyone puts it back
21:14:05 <shachaf> I think it's reasonable for the entry to exist, but it's phrased in a very biased way.
21:14:13 <shachaf> I'm not good at Wikipedia phrasing, though.
21:14:19 <b_jonas> I mean, not the kind that needs a second to just start up, because the bytecode loader that loads the library is so big, nor like Java which requires tons of memory because it doesn't share anything between processes; but something that REALLY requires lots of resources.
21:14:21 <shachaf> But I guess I should clarify that I wasn't asking anyone else to fix it.
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