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00:07:47 <boily> fungot: welcome back! (and don't insult my mom.)
00:07:53 <boily> fungot: yes I have.
00:07:53 <fungot> boily: what do you mean? did you really need to get to your point? can you watch flv?
00:08:05 <boily> fungot: I have it, tsé. yes, and yes.
00:09:23 <oerjan> fungot: you seem left out
00:09:23 <fungot> oerjan: but if you evaluate something like ' fnord'." case matters." and " typos"? must be.
00:09:39 <boily> a typo in the botsnack command. understandable.
00:09:43 <fizzie> fungot: Thanks for reverting back to insensibility.
00:09:43 <fungot> fizzie: 5 minutes have passed control on to a guy who loves you for shutting up to love me.
00:09:52 <oerjan> ^def botsnack ul (Oh nom nom nom!)S
00:10:09 <fungot> boily: no he's gonna patrol fnord/ fnord that, r2q2. i have neither had the opportunity to discover all of this
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00:49:56 <MDude> Randian Algorithmic Methods, the objectivist-oriented programming language
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01:02:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43822&oldid=43804 * 206.174.179.24 * (+2) Renaming APL to AnyPL because APL is not an esoteric language (despite appearances).
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01:12:20 <Sgeo> nortti, are translated versions out?
01:19:58 <oren> Machine-Base-32: digits are @ thru _
01:21:11 <oren> e.g. hex 127 = mb32 C_
01:22:56 <oren> yeah. it goes well with machine hex, which uses digits 0 thru ?
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01:24:17 <mauris_> oren: huh, i can imagine how that works / why that exists, but i can't find any source that uses it
01:24:39 <oren> It doesn't exist to my knowlefge
01:24:47 <oren> I just invented them
01:25:14 <lifthrasiir> Machine-Alphabets: upper case A thru Z, lower case [ thru t
01:27:19 <oren> machine hex prevents problematic numbers like B16B00B5 from occurring
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01:29:30 <lifthrasiir> oren: I assume you haven't translated 0xCDD8 into machine hex.
01:30:23 <oren> AAAAA you ruined everything
01:31:54 <oren> Well, machine-32 makes SHIT and FUCK perfectly valid 20-bit integers
01:33:18 <oren> actually that fits well with unicode
01:34:30 <oren> hmm, well if you don't count the last plane
01:35:35 <oren> in hex most unicode is five digits. in base 32 it would be 4 didigts
01:36:37 <lifthrasiir> oren: allow ` and a as the first digit and you will be fine
01:36:56 <oren> yeah that would work
01:45:29 <zzo38> But also some other codes are not valid Unicode characters, such as surrogates and 0xFFFE and 0xFFFF (although you can still represent them in UTF-8 anyways if you want to)
01:48:13 <lifthrasiir> zzo38: U+FFFE/FFFF is a "noncharacter" and it is fully valid.
01:49:20 <zzo38> It isn't a character though. It can be encoded with UTF-16 but you can't detect the byte order properly with that
01:49:22 <mauris_> i think some programs use FFFE to detect byte order? so while you can embed them into files they break things in some encodings
01:49:29 <zzo38> Also some other program don't accept it
01:49:53 <lifthrasiir> zzo38: they are special in one kind but ultimately valid.
01:50:23 <zzo38> XML and RDF cannot use it either, and you should avoid it for portable Unicode data
01:50:53 <fizzie> "Noncharacters are in a sense a kind of private-use character, because they are reserved for internal (private) use. However, that internal use is intended as a "super" private use, not normally interchanged with other users. Their allocation status in Unicode differs from that of ordinary private-use characters. They are considered unassigned to any abstract character, and they share the ...
01:50:59 <fizzie> ... General_Category value Cn (Unassigned) with unassigned reserved code points in the standard. In this sense they are "less a character" than most characters in Unicode, and the moniker "noncharacter" seemed appropriate to the UTC to express that unique aspect of their identity."
01:51:05 <lifthrasiir> mauris_: only the first occurrence will be affected, so a redundant BOM will be sufficient.
01:51:29 <lifthrasiir> zzo38: yup, I just want to say that they are not "invalid" in normal sense; they are less usable than others, obviously.
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01:52:42 <zzo38> Yes, it is a kind of "very private", I suppose
01:56:09 <zzo38> In portable data you should not use surrogates either (except as proper pairs in UTF-16 data), since if a program convert UTF-8 to UTF-16 then it will cause problems!
01:59:06 <zzo38> Some program that use RDF might expect all ASCII, but even then if the implementation is to be complete, the RDF Turtle parser still has to for example to be able to tell if two nodes are he same even if one time a character is mentioned with \u and other time with the canonical UTF-8 representation.
01:59:08 <oren> the BOM in Machine-32 would be A_S_
02:01:22 <oren> FFFF would be A___ and FFFE would be A__^
02:13:55 <oren> wait, couldn't you use FFFE to switch byte orders in the middle of a utf16 string?
02:15:46 <pikhq> Not in normal UTF-16; semantically it's basically a zero-width non breaking space in the middle of a string.
02:15:58 <zzo38> I think it would depend on the implementation; normally you can't!
02:27:02 <Sgeo> Is The Elements of Computing Systems a good book?
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03:23:24 <Sgeo> "The result of this elaborate translation process, known as compilation, will be yet another text file, containing machine-level code"
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04:29:32 <oren> FUCK. how do I make mod_rewrite do something, anything?Q?!?
04:30:06 <oren> RewriteRule "^foo$" "index.html"
04:30:13 <oren> doesn't do jack shit
04:31:25 <coppro> make sure it's a virgin
04:31:48 <coppro> read the binary code in the blood and translate that as a brainfuck program
04:31:55 <coppro> execute the brainfuck program
04:32:11 <coppro> add the RewriteBlackMagic "key" directive, where "key" is repalced by the output of the brainfuck program
04:32:42 <izabera> what if the program never terminates
04:33:00 <izabera> oren: ^foo$ without quotes
04:35:30 <oren> Ok I changed that. http://www.orenwatson.be/foo still 404s
04:38:03 <izabera> is mod_rewrite enabled? what's in your .htaccess?
04:38:48 <oren> I don't have .htaccess.
04:39:00 <oren> I just have apache2.conf
04:40:29 <oren> http://www.orenwatson.be/partialconf
04:40:38 <oren> the rest is comments
04:41:45 <izabera> is apache trying to load a file named <quote>index.html<quote> ?
04:42:02 <oren> http://www.orenwatson.be/foo
04:42:59 <oren> doesn't seem to have changed anythign
04:56:01 <oren> FUCK why does it suddenly work?!?!
04:56:24 <oren> whoever wrote the docs for this stuff is an ass
05:17:57 <oren> Ok so essentially: the thing that the regex tries to match is the part of the FILENAME (WTF) after the directory tag's direcotry.
05:18:26 <oren> so ^foo$ won't work. it has to be ^html/foo$
05:19:21 <oren> becasue the directory is /var/www and the file is in /var/www/html
05:19:42 <oren> even hough html isn't in the url...
05:20:48 <oren> at least now I can autogenerate html versions of plaintext files instead of duplicating everything
05:23:27 <oren> when in doubt pkill -9 plugin-container; pkill -9 firefox;
05:23:49 <oren> pkill -9 pulseaudio; pkill -9 blueman
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05:25:30 <oren> oh, he was using the web irc thing. whoops
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05:44:18 <nortti> < Sgeo> nortti, are translated versions out? ← didn't seem so
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06:05:11 <oren> Is there a better procedure for viewing ansi-escaped files than telnetting in and GET /file.ans ?
06:10:23 <Hoolootwo> I guess it may depend on your terminal
06:12:34 <oren> oh, never mind, you can use less -R, I already documented that
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08:47:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kslkgh * New user account
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11:01:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Snowman]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43823&oldid=43798 * Kslkgh * (+50)
11:07:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43824&oldid=43822 * Kslkgh * (+39) added snowman hello world example
11:18:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Snowman]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43825&oldid=43823 * Kslkgh * (+929)
11:24:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Snowman]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43826&oldid=43825 * Kslkgh * (+3032)
11:26:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Snowman]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43827&oldid=43826 * Kslkgh * (-3629)
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11:56:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43828&oldid=43796 * 107.1.152.193 * (+14) Added Hello++
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12:34:10 <oren> if you talk to apache and say GET /cp437 with no 1.1 at the end, it ouputs only the file with no http header
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12:54:45 <fizzie> That's good old HTTP 0.9.
12:55:04 <fizzie> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/HTTP/AsImplemented.html
12:57:17 <oren> that makes it easy to dump to a file.
12:57:38 <fizzie> The original HTTP/1.1 RFCs -- like https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616 -- had 0.9 support as "expected".
12:58:23 <fizzie> Of course that was in 1996.
12:59:03 <fizzie> The current one has removed that bit.
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12:59:36 <oren> i think the ability to nc www.orenwatson.be 80 <<<$'GET /cp437' >cp437 is a good thing
13:01:15 <oren> t really understand mod_rewrite but at least I got the autohtmlification working
13:02:41 <oren> I have only the file cp437.txt on my server. Asking for a file with no extension gives you a txt if it exists. asking for the same file with .htm gives you a htmlified version
13:04:59 <oren> (unless the same filename with .htm actually exists, in which case I had converted it manually)
13:07:27 <nortti> a list of s/regex/something
13:07:44 <nortti> +/ replacements that are repeated until no match is turing complete
13:08:46 <nortti> but can just one s/regex/something/ (repeated until no longer matches) simulate a turing machine? I thought about rule-110, but I can only condense it down to two replacement rules
13:09:39 <nortti> (either one for 1 and one for 0, or one for both using some funny encoding and one for clenup)
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13:18:01 <fizzie> Is that allowing for backrefs in the 'something'?
13:20:32 <fizzie> I wouldn't be surprised if it could, but that's just a hunch. What do your existing rules look like?
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13:24:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LindenMASM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43829&oldid=43818 * Vioz- * (+3) /* Commands */
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13:26:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[LindenMASM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43830&oldid=43829 * Vioz- * (+0)
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13:46:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43831&oldid=43812 * Vioz- * (+1) /* Examples */
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14:12:57 <nortti> fizzie: turns out the method I tried was faulty, it didn't actually simulate a rule-110
14:16:09 <oerjan> ^ul (^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^)()~((())~:a~*):a~*~^!(~((!())(!:^(^)*)(!!:^(!^)*))~*^!!^):^(~((()())(:a~*:(*(!^)(:)S)~*~(!*(^)(^)S)~*):a~**((!^)~^!^)(!(^)~^^))~*^( )S!!a:(*)*~(~*)**^~*(()()(!)()(!)(:a~*:(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(^)*)))~*~(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(!^)*)))~*):^)~*^!!!!!!~:^):^
14:16:10 <fungot> ^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^ :^^^:^^^:::^^^::::^::^^::::::^::^^:^^^::^:^^ ^^:^^^:^::^^:^:::^^:^^^:::::^^:^^^^^:^:^^^^^ :^^^:^^^:^^^^^::^^^^^:^::::^^^^^:::^^^^^:::: ^^:^^^:^^^:::^:^^:::^^^:::^^:::^::^^:::^:::: ^^^^:^^^:^::^^^^^::^^:^::^^^::^^:^^^::^^:::^ :::^^^:^^^:^^:::^:^^^^^:^^:^:^^^^^:^:^^^::^^ ::^^:^^^: ...too much output!
14:17:19 <oerjan> best viewed in a terminal that's narrow enough to wrap on the spaces
14:25:58 <oerjan> nortti: btw you know the universality proof for r110 requires an infinite cell setup, right?
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14:29:16 <oerjan> the setup is mostly a leftwards and a rightwards repeating part, though
14:30:03 <oerjan> which _could_ be handled with regexes, although doesn't make it easier to condense down to 1...
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14:34:25 <fizzie> /(0)([01]*)(-)[01]([01]*)|(1)([01])([01]*)(-)([01]*)/\2\1\3\4\7\5\6\8\9\6/ looks borderline passable for a BCT. With a [program]-[data string] encoding.
14:36:33 <fizzie> `run perl -e '$s = "00111-101"; while (1) { print "$s\n"; $s =~ s/(0)([01]*)(-)[01]([01]*)|(1)([01])([01]*)(-)([01]*)/\2\1\3\4\7\5\6\8\9\6/; }' | head
14:36:34 <HackEgo> 00111-101 \ 01110-01 \ 11100-1 \ 10011-11 \ 01110-110 \ 11100-10 \ 10011-101 \ 01110-1010 \ 11100-010 \ 10011-0101
14:37:16 <fizzie> That matched the "Example" run at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bitwise_Cyclic_Tag up to the second-last line.
14:38:20 <fizzie> I think the example is just wrong. It says that for command 11, data 010 the next data is again 010 and not 0101.
14:40:07 <fizzie> Oh, I'm missing the copy condition completely.
14:40:12 <fizzie> Yeah, will need to add that.
14:41:00 <fizzie> Well, that should be easy.
14:44:05 <fizzie> Repeating s/(0)([01]*)(-)[01]([01]*)|(1)([01])([01]*)(-)(0)([01]*)|(1)([01])([01]*)(-)(1)([01]*)/$2$1$3$4$7$5$6$8$9$10$13$11$12$14$15$16$12/; in Perl seems to exactly match the example.
14:44:18 <fizzie> Had to switch from \n to $n due to going double digits.
14:45:41 <fizzie> `run perl -e '$s = "00111-101"; while (1) { $s =~ /-([01]*)/; print "$1\n"; $s =~ s/(0)([01]*)(-)[01]([01]*)|(1)([01])([01]*)(-)(0)([01]*)|(1)([01])([01]*)(-)(1)([01]*)/$2$1$3$4$7$5$6$8$9$10$13$11$12$14$15$16$12/; }' | head -n 12 # "proof"
14:45:42 <HackEgo> 101 \ 01 \ 1 \ 11 \ 110 \ 10 \ 101 \ 1010 \ 010 \ 010 \ 010 \ 10
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15:58:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Dom111 * New user account
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16:00:35 <HackEgo> dom111: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
16:01:12 <dom111> hey there, just snooping mostly :)
16:02:00 <shachaf> oerjan: whoa, you described me as nosy once
16:02:13 <oerjan> except when shachaf is doing it hth
16:03:19 <dom111> hah, I guess I should hope I don't go too far then!
16:04:20 <dom111> It's ok, I'm not snooping on people, just wanted to see what goes on here really! I've checked out the wiki a lot lately and wondered if I could contribute somehow.
16:04:25 <shachaf> the described nosiness has its benefits
16:04:43 <shachaf> dom111: Most of what goes on here isn't related to esoteric languages.
16:05:04 <dom111> Just general snooping?
16:05:58 <dom111> I see, I didn't properly look at the channel name to be honest ...
16:06:39 <shachaf> dom111: E.g. http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/d0/b0/14/d0b014bd22206e0cd62de10b493354ae.jpg
16:07:05 <oerjan> let's not get carried away, it's _supposed_ to be about esolangs.
16:07:36 <dom111> So a bit more like this: http://i.imgur.com/DwR4aOE.png
16:07:58 <shachaf> dom111: that looks like regular snoopy
16:08:02 <shachaf> my link was general snoopy
16:08:51 <shachaf> oerjan didn't swat me for some reason
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16:09:26 <oerjan> probably because of my headache
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16:31:03 <tswett> So I'm trying to build this project, and ld is complaining, and I don't know why.
16:31:07 <tswett> Here's the deets: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8843222
16:31:31 <tswett> ld says: "/home/tswett/sandwichos/src/kernel.rs:42: undefined reference to `heap'"
16:31:53 <tswett> Well, "heap" is right there in build/multiboot.o, isn't it? Can't ld see that?
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17:10:58 <ashl> does ld not actually look for _heap
17:12:50 <fizzie> tswett: bind == LOCAL for the symbol 'heap' in multiboot.o.
17:13:30 <fizzie> (I'm not sure if that's the same concept as visibility, though; haven't used readelf much.)
17:14:13 <fizzie> Hm, there's "vis: DEFAULT" too. Maybe it doesn't mean what I thought it meant.
17:15:28 <fizzie> Okay, I guess a symbol needs to be both STB_GLOBAL and STV_DEFAULT in order to be visible.
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18:29:21 <stalem> anyone here enjoy reading shitty first-time attempts at a proof? :D
18:30:03 <shachaf> a proof proof, in other words?
18:31:02 <stalem> a proof-reading proof? proof proof. it's starting to lose its meaning
18:31:36 <stalem> it's the sound a really large inflated floppy baloon makes when you release it
18:33:52 <stalem> but yeah what do you mean by proof proof exactly? :P
18:40:01 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galley_proof hth
18:57:41 <stalem> heck what do i know i have no education or knowledge in this. for all i know it might not even be called an attempt
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19:00:18 <stalem> either way i just tried to prove that the only type of quines in resplicate are made of 2's size four or greater
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21:05:09 <Ox0dea> Which is the optimal compression algorithm for Whitespace programs?
21:06:08 <Ox0dea> Printing them out is optimal, but I haven't figured out how to undo it.
21:08:20 <shachaf> I'm sure you can do better than printing them out.
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21:09:15 <Ox0dea> shachaf: How do I create a file of negative size?
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22:05:54 <zzo38> What filesystem supports files with negative sizes?
22:07:35 <Ox0dea> shachaf suggested that printing them out is not the most effective way to compress Whitespace programs.
22:07:59 <oerjan> _not_ printing them out would seem even more efficient hth
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22:08:33 <Ox0dea> oerjan: How is that a form of compression, though?
22:08:40 <myname> compress: Whitespaceprogram -> {0}
22:08:52 <Ox0dea> Right, how to do better than that?
22:08:58 <oerjan> Ox0dea: it compresses to 0 bytes hth
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22:16:52 <oerjan> hm curious internet failure
22:17:16 <oerjan> it says i have no internet connection. my browser agrees, but not putty.
22:17:49 <Ox0dea> oerjan: It looks like your connection is down from here as well.
22:20:04 <Ox0dea> oerjan: Well, I would expect to see messages from you if your connection was good.
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22:30:38 <oerjan> at least i have several already open tabs
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22:36:43 <oerjan> @tell stalem <stalem> either way i just tried to prove that the only type of quines in resplicate are made of 2's size four or greater <-- i find that unlikely, the language is turing-complete.
22:43:06 <oerjan> of course this had to happen just after midnight, there might not even be anyone noticing it
22:43:50 <oerjan> that's paid to, that is
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23:00:25 <oren> A file could be of negative actual size on a compressed file system if its existence causes the compression efficiency to icrease
23:01:06 <oren> I don't know how possible that is though
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23:09:40 <oren> idea for a stream cipher: compress the input and a predetermined other data using the same dictionary-based compression. Then decompress the input using the dictionary of the predetermined data.
23:10:02 <oren> the other side does the reverse
23:11:11 <oren> this isn't a very good cipher....
23:12:01 <oren> it only screws up the data when it is compressible
23:12:10 <Ox0dea> Converting Whitespace programs to PNGs actually compresses them better than xz.
23:12:14 <Ox0dea> Not gzip or bzip2, though.
23:12:35 <oren> try a naive run length encoding
23:12:49 <Ox0dea> oren: It wouldn't be all that great, I don't think.
23:13:30 <oren> try RLE compounded by gzip,xz, etc.
23:14:11 <oren> eg. replace 10 spaces by '10s' replace 2 tabs by '2t'
23:15:48 <Ox0dea> oren: Yes, alternation happens way too frequently for it to be useful.
23:16:11 <oren> what about something like 3st
23:18:36 <oren> hmm actually, what about first converting to binary with space with 1 and tab with 0
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23:24:16 <Ox0dea> oren: Did you mean ternary?
23:24:22 <boily> oren: helloren. I think you found the Elusive Porthello of Ais523. thanks.
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23:24:23 <Ox0dea> Translating " \t\n" to "012" on my biggest Whitespace program results in a ternary number of 1749 bits, which rounds to 219 bytes, which is indeed better than gzip or bzip2.
23:24:24 <ais523> oren: my advice would be to take the individual Whitespace commands (rather than space/tab/newline) and form a Huffman dictionary out of them
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23:41:03 <boily> Scandinavian tech support: http://i.imgur.com/i9ZBC.jpg
23:41:14 <boily> (I believe this is Swedish. olsner?)
23:41:26 <fizzie> It looks Swedish to me.
23:42:02 <fizzie> Andreas Hedlund has gone through (as in, thought of/tested) all possible ("thinkable") software problems.
23:44:24 <fizzie> Now he's deduced it's a hardware issue, to paraphrase a bit. I don't think "Modermodemet" is anything at all. But apparently it's the heart of the hard disk, and it's not working.
23:45:03 <oren> mivrocontroller maybe?
23:45:14 <boily> the Modem's Mother?
23:45:15 <fizzie> It's, like, "mothermodem".
23:45:30 <fizzie> Moderkort(et) would be a valid term for a motherboard.
23:45:44 <fizzie> Not sure if it's applicable to the controller board of a disk drive in Swedish, maybe.
23:47:20 <fizzie> I don't see a hard disk anywhere in the photo, anyway.