00:00:01 <mauris> :t Nu "hi shachaf" (Just . (++"!"))
00:01:19 <shachaf> Imagine I give you x :: Nu Maybe
00:01:52 <mauris> should we take this to ##somewhereelse
00:02:05 <coppro> no, it's incredibly ontopic
00:02:59 <mauris> okay! your x is (Nu a f), where f :: a -> Maybe a
00:04:06 <shachaf> mauris :: Nu Maybe -> String is the same as mauris :: forall x. x -> (x -> Maybe x) -> String
00:04:16 <shachaf> This is how you turn exists into forall
00:04:26 <coppro> maybe if I hear shachaf explain this enough times I'll understand it
00:04:43 <shachaf> I'm not explaining it, I'm letting mauris figure it out.
00:04:48 <shachaf> When have you heard me explain this?
00:05:07 <coppro> you did it in #haskell the other day, didn't you?
00:05:45 <mauris> so, re: "What can you do with it?": first of all, trivially, i could take out the a
00:06:11 <shachaf> coppro: Only for a few minutes.
00:06:24 <shachaf> Existential types are so good.
00:06:45 <mauris> or i could run it through f once, and get a `Maybe a`...
00:07:19 <mauris> and then i can fmap f on that to get a `Maybe (Maybe a)`, etc.
00:08:18 <shachaf> You can do all of those things.
00:08:27 <shachaf> But a :: x isn't very useful to you.
00:08:34 <shachaf> You can't do anything with it.
00:09:32 <mauris> yeah, that's the thing
00:11:18 <mauris> i mean, i can write a Nu Maybe -> String that just returns a constant string, but that sounds very boring. so the question is: what meaningful info can i extract from my `a :: x` and `f :: x -> Maybe x` without assuming anything about the type `x`, right?
00:12:54 <mauris> i could >>= my `Just a` through `f` repeatedly, and count how many iterations it takes to get a Nothing
00:16:48 <mauris> (this feels a little like an unfold to me, the way Mu feels like a fold, which i was expecting! but it's a bit frustrating that i can't pin down the exact correspondence)
00:17:04 <shachaf> Mu Maybe and Nu Maybe are both types of natural numbers.
00:17:20 <shachaf> What's the difference between them?
00:17:30 <mauris> i suppose if a = (), then [a] is Nat!
00:17:49 <shachaf> You were just talking about ana and cata, right?
00:17:58 <shachaf> Which in polite company we call unfold and fold.
00:18:07 <shachaf> fold :: Fix f -> (f r -> r) -> r
00:18:18 <shachaf> unfoldr :: x -> (x -> f x) -> Fix f
00:20:05 <mauris> "<shachaf> What's the difference between them?" <-- well, arrows got flipped, so i suppose they are (waves hands) dual
00:20:32 <shachaf> What's the difference between these types? Do they have the same inhabitants?
00:22:06 <mauris> i would guess: up to isomorphism, they do?
00:22:55 <mauris> what with Mu Maybe and Nu Maybe both being the naturals, and those signatures of fold and unfold looking like they compose into each other nicely to at least get from Nu to Mu
00:23:52 <shachaf> You could write zeroMu, succMu, muToInt, and zeroNu, succNu, nuToInt
00:24:05 <mauris> i guess omegaNu exists, but omegaMu doesn't
00:24:09 <shachaf> (You're allowed to use recursion in nuToInt.)
00:24:40 <shachaf> Nu Maybe is the type of conatural numbers (i.e. natural numbers with infinity), defined without any recursion.
00:25:05 <mauris> omegaNu being where `f :: x -> Maybe x` is simply `Just`, and you *never* get a `Nothing` out of it
00:25:41 <shachaf> You can think of Nu Maybe as a simple state machine thing.
00:25:58 <shachaf> It has an internal state, and you can press a button, which might give you a new state.
00:26:05 <mauris> either it "halts" after some amount of steps, or it goes on forever?
00:26:28 <shachaf> It represents the natural number "how many times does it run before it halts".
00:26:43 <shachaf> The state is opaque, which is why all those values you named are equal.
00:28:23 <mauris> maybe this doesn't make a lot of sense at all, but my intuition is saying something like...
00:29:57 <mauris> Mu is a bit like fold, and you fold from some finite number "down" to zero in a number of steps. but Nu is the opposite and can unfold "up" into infinity
00:30:31 <shachaf> Now write muToNu and nuToMu
00:30:46 <shachaf> You can also write muToFix, fixToNu, nuToFix, fixToMu.
00:30:48 <mauris> this is really hard for me to put into words (the darn things are so concrete :<)
00:32:18 <mauris> do i need the fact that `f` is a Functor, for these?
00:32:44 <mauris> like, do i write `mu2nu :: Functor f => Mu f -> Nu f` or just `mu2nu :: Mu f -> Nu f`
00:34:20 <shachaf> Oh, you can also write inMu :: f (Mu f) -> Mu f, outMu :: Mu f -> f (Mu f), inNu :: f (Nu f) -> Nu f, outNu :: Nu f -> f (Nu f)
00:34:33 <shachaf> For all of these things, some directions are easy, and some are hard.
00:34:59 <shachaf> I can give you a hint for which you should expect to be easy.
00:35:05 <mauris> alrighty. i'm going to fidget with this locally, unless you really want to see me mess around with ghci and follow my train of thought, in which case i could try lambdabot?
00:35:19 <shachaf> imo do whatever you want hth
00:35:46 <mauris> mostly flooding #esoteric with ghc errors sounds scary ;.;
00:37:06 <shachaf> Or maybe try https://coderpad.io/Y4W93H37
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00:53:32 <zzo38> I thought of some a bit unusual idea related to Dungeons&Dragons game, such as, a "Break Numerical Barrier" spell that can change one instance of an effect that normally has a minimum of one or zero to instead have no minimum.
00:55:24 <zzo38> Other ideas are such thing as magic items that have one effect in the daylight and another effect in the darkness, such as a magic weapon with +2 hit and -1 damage in daylight but +2 damage and -1 hit in darkness.
01:06:36 -!- boily has joined.
01:12:03 <dipperswett> 19:41:19: <int-e> (I have no large weird alternate constructors of the comment)
01:13:14 <oerjan> and let us all be thankful for that
01:13:25 <lambdabot> fizzie said 13h 51m 6s ago: päältä 'from on top' (ablative case of päällä 'on top of something', or 'on' as in "the radio is on")
01:13:25 <lambdabot> fizzie said 13h 51m 2s ago: säänne 'your (pl.) weather' (second-person plural possessive of sää 'weather')
01:13:25 <lambdabot> fizzie said 13h 50m 55s ago: silleen -- a colloquialism that's rather hard to translate without resorting to just listing a bunch of example uses.
01:13:25 <lambdabot> fizzie said 13h 50m 47s ago: varpaastasi 'from your toe' (elative case of the second-person singular possessive of varvas 'toe')
01:14:37 <boily> aaaaurgh... Finnish has too many cases.
01:14:58 <boily> from your toe. come on, that should never be a single word! at least in polite company!
01:15:03 <oerjan> in case of finnish break glass
01:15:04 <oren> I'm going to upload a bunch of pictures of some of the maps from my atlas, this time is high-res
01:15:09 <dipperswett> Or is your name pronounced like /bwaly/ or something instead of /boili/.
01:15:46 <oerjan> boily: clearly it must be stallman's favorite finnish word hth
01:15:47 <boily> dipperswett: more like /bwali/. you can realize the /a/ as [æ] if you prefer.
01:16:15 <boily> oerjan: indeed. stallman's toes are very hambiguitous hth
01:16:51 <dipperswett> The neural net's behavior in Insane Mode is pretty interesting.
01:16:59 <oren> damn, not high res enough
01:18:55 <dipperswett> `learn clbin is a "command line pastebin" web application: https://clbin.com
01:18:57 <HackEgo> Learned 'clbin': clbin is a "command line pastebin" web application: https://clbin.com
01:19:08 <dipperswett> The only useful learndb entry ever created.
01:19:34 <oerjan> well there have been previous attempts that were squashed
01:19:44 <oerjan> some may even have survived
01:20:05 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø?
01:20:10 <HackEgo> ¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:20:26 <dipperswett> Does that somehow invoke myndzi on purpose?
01:20:58 <HackEgo> [U+00AF MACRON] [U+005C REVERSE SOLIDUS] [U+0028 LEFT PARENTHESIS] [U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN] [U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE] [U+005F LOW LINE] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+0029 RIGHT PARENTHESIS] [U+002F SOLIDUS] [U+00AF MACRON] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+00AF MACRON] [U+005C REVERSE SOLIDUS] [U+0028 LEFT PARENTHESIS] [U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN] [U+005F LOW LINE] [U+0
01:21:01 <boily> myndzi is part bot, part cyborg. they are a very strange entity.
01:21:16 <boily> fungot: have you tried communicating with myndzi?
01:21:17 <fungot> boily: was there a train somewhere in the file.
01:21:42 <HackEgo> ¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:21:44 <HackEgo> [U+00AF MACRON] [U+005C REVERSE SOLIDUS] [U+0028 LEFT PARENTHESIS] [U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN] [U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE] [U+005F LOW LINE] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+0029 RIGHT PARENTHESIS] [U+002F SOLIDUS] [U+00AF MACRON]
01:21:54 <HackEgo> ¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:22:01 <HackEgo> [U+00AF MACRON] [U+005C REVERSE SOLIDUS] [U+0028 LEFT PARENTHESIS] [U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN] [U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE] [U+005F LOW LINE] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+0029 RIGHT PARENTHESIS] [U+002F SOLIDUS] [U+00AF MACRON]
01:22:09 <HackEgo> [U+00AF MACRON] [U+005C REVERSE SOLIDUS] [U+0028 LEFT PARENTHESIS] [U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN] [U+005F LOW LINE] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+0029 RIGHT PARENTHESIS] [U+002F SOLIDUS] [U+00AF MACRON]
01:23:15 <boily> this chännel went full bönkers mode...
01:23:20 <boily> oh the fungotity...
01:23:21 <fungot> boily: you rule!" joke that was posted on reddit has him going into detail on that
01:23:40 <dipperswett> ¯\(°_o)/¯ ¯\(°_o)/¯ ¯\(°_o)/¯ ¯\(°_o)/¯ ¯\(°_o)/¯ ¯\(°_o)/¯ ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:24:00 <oerjan> there's a line length limit
01:24:17 <dipperswett> ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:24:17 <myndzi> º¯`\o o/`¯º º¯`\o º¯`\o º¯`\o
01:24:42 <dipperswett> ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:25:07 <mauris> ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:25:09 <mauris> ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:25:10 <mauris> ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:25:10 <boily> bonk bonk bonk bonk bonk ♪
01:25:38 <dipperswett> ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ but ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and
01:26:09 <mauris> ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/
01:26:10 <myndzi> o/`¯º o/`¯º o/`¯º o/`¯º º¯`\o
01:26:27 <mauris> ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯ and ¯\(°_o)/¯
01:26:27 <myndzi> º¯`\o o/`¯º o/`¯º o/`¯º º¯`\o
01:26:46 <shachaf> This is a bit heavy on the bot spam for my taste.
01:26:54 <mauris> i suppose no one person can test this because the nick length affects it a little??
01:27:26 <oren> fffff _o_ _o_ _o_
01:27:45 <oren> fffff _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_
01:27:45 <myndzi> /| >\ ´¸¨ |\ /^\ /| /| /| ´¸¨
01:28:42 <oerjan> i'm sure myndzi's script still has some bugs
01:29:03 <mauris> ps: hichaf, i will probably be busy for a while but maybe i will ping you when i'm ready for more greek letter fun
01:29:04 <oren> `` perl -e 'print "_o_ " x 15
01:29:05 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
01:29:11 <oren> `` perl -e 'print "_o_ " x 15'
01:29:11 <HackEgo> _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_
01:29:12 <myndzi> | | | | | | | ¦ | | | | | | |
01:29:12 <myndzi> |\ /< |\ >\ >\ /´\ >\ ´¸¨ /'\ /< /< >\ |\ >\ /|
01:29:17 <mauris> shachaf: ^ + does this coderpad.io thing time out
01:29:42 <oren> `` perl -e 'print "_o_ " x 30'
01:29:42 <HackEgo> _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_
01:29:58 <oren> `` perl -e 'print "_o_ " x 20'
01:29:59 <HackEgo> _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_
01:30:04 <mauris> ah. well, i've copied it all into a text editor locally
01:30:11 <oren> `` perl -e 'print "_o_ " x 17'
01:30:11 <HackEgo> _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_
01:30:19 <oren> `` perl -e 'print "_o_ " x 16'
01:30:19 <HackEgo> _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_
01:30:26 <oren> `` perl -e 'print "_o_ " x 15'
01:30:26 <HackEgo> _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_ _o_
01:30:27 <myndzi> | | | | | ¦ | | | | | | | | |
01:30:27 <myndzi> |\ >\ |\ /'\ /| ´¸¨ >\ /^\ /| /| |\ /^\ /| /< /'\
01:30:43 <oren> the population limit is 15
01:31:12 <oerjan> i think i cannot in conscience let this go on for much longer
01:32:01 <dipperswett> All right, here's the insane output: https://db.tt/LvdF6xWG
01:32:09 <dipperswett> Relatively sane line: 15:05:48: -!- Sprocklem_ has joined #esoteric.
01:32:21 <dipperswett> Also relatively sane line: 13:33:12: <oerjan> eventually.tmm:IHv/!*t&v&[u|<d$.y�/q2u.+�&(fjc|=a,uP/.c)avJRv<fix}k
01:32:54 <oren> 14:27:10: <oren_> butzind:;*?}Bhok'-8:΋qšl+
01:32:55 <boily> exactly like the original oerjan!
01:33:00 <dipperswett> Did you catch the 0x0F byte in there? There's a 0x0F byte in there.
01:33:40 <dipperswett> I like this one: 03:42:10: <myname> candi raze | "a �# At) ...Too, fan5smKdwat!E
01:33:55 <boily> <Taneb> oerjan, I'm USl'nuqÌ ← is that one of Taneb's genders?
01:34:32 <boily> dipperswett: sadly, there aren't any CHICKENs in it.
01:35:17 <oren> it seems to know that there are 24 hours in a day and 60 minutes/seconds per hour/minute
01:36:13 <dipperswett> Though in insane mode, it does sometimes generate a timestamp like 16:5P:11.
01:36:44 <oerjan> @ask b_jonas <b_jonas> But I've met the similar non-qwerty TIs more. I've also seen HPs and Casios, but none of them have I delved so deeply as into that Sharp I own. <-- no balrogs yet?
01:36:53 <boily> dipperswett: that's simply fungot AM hth
01:36:53 <fungot> boily: now i'm finally feeling comfortable with the fact that the build system currently works, but i got the same answer, 16.
01:36:57 <dipperswett> Every line begins with something satisfying the regex '^..:..:..: ', with one exception: there's one beginning with '00:48 48: ' instead.
01:37:07 <fungot> dipperswett: one needs set-cdr!, and then
01:37:18 <fungot> boily: can you write the code usually it has only two words of the same
01:37:28 <boily> where was it again...
01:38:14 <HackEgo> Fnord AM is the repeated hour that happens when DST resolves. It is customary to celebrate it with a Garou Ping if one is awake during that time.
01:38:19 <boily> dipperswett: see ↑
01:38:35 <zzo38> O, that's what you call it. Now I can know!
01:39:22 <dipperswett> This line is surprisingly ASCII: 17:22:44: -!- dtsacotoo pretestrosee have somotored, mekz, too
01:40:39 <shachaf> oerjan: oots #1000 is coming out tonight hth
01:42:31 <zzo38> Have you ever try to make up any spell/psionics/feats/class for a Dungeons&Dragons game? Also how many characters did you ever make up in total if you can remember any idea/detail?
01:45:36 <dipperswett> I've probably made between five and ten D&D characters.
01:46:09 <zzo38> I am still playing tsume shogi game today (because I like this kind of game, although other people I have shown it to they do not understand it)
01:46:54 <zzo38> dipperswett: Do you remember any detail about class and level and other stuff?
01:47:21 <dipperswett> I remember them more as fictional characters than game mechanics. Let's see.
01:47:39 <zzo38> OK then, what kind of details as fictional characters do you remember?
01:48:15 <dipperswett> Redgroat, cleric. Duvessa Ashling, fighter. Dowan Ashling, sorcerer.
01:48:36 <dipperswett> Redgroat was insane but not brave. Duvessa was brave but not insane. Dowan was both brave and insane.
01:48:51 <dipperswett> For this reason, Redgroat and Duvessa couldn't really handle what was going on in the campaign.
01:49:33 <boily> dipperswett: what was the inspiration behind the Redgroat name?
01:49:36 <dipperswett> Dowan and Duvessa were pretty much completely inspired by this picture: http://i.imgur.com/bzQwC.png
01:50:00 <dipperswett> boily: a dessert which I'd call "Danish redgroat" in English.
01:50:12 <dipperswett> I can't type the slashy O's because I'm currently on STUPID WINDOWS.
01:50:24 <boily> ah! the Danishibboleth!
01:51:10 <boily> say, did you ever play DCSS?
01:51:24 <mauris> i can say that but it sounds a bit like i'm choking
01:51:43 <mauris> also yes, good characters lifted directly from dcss >:O
01:51:47 <zzo38> And, if they are both name Ashling are they of a same family or is just their name is the same? Also is it human character or something else, do you remember anything else about what kind of spells or personalities or what happened in those campaign, or what level?
01:52:19 <dipperswett> I think they both reached around level 8. As for personality...
01:52:36 <dipperswett> Duvessa was "the sober one" and Dowan was "the crazy one".
01:53:06 <zzo38> You already mention something like that, I think
01:53:15 <dipperswett> To give you some idea of their personalities, here's something I imagined happening...
01:53:45 <dipperswett> Dowan was killed in battle at the tender young age of 85. About forty-two years later, Duvessa finally managed to get him resurrected.
01:54:10 <dipperswett> She was, needless to say, ecstatic about this, and so she immediately wrote a letter to her parents.
01:54:28 <dipperswett> "Dear Keean and Ava Ashling. Your son is alive. Sincerely, Duvessa Ashling."
01:54:45 <dipperswett> She then handed the paper to Dowan, who scribbled a picture of himself grinning.
01:55:12 <zzo38> O, OK that's how it works
01:57:20 <dipperswett> I seem to have a thing for stories involving fraternal twins of opposite genders.
01:58:38 <zzo38> OK. I have never made up the D&D characters which are related, except for his cousin's godmother's roommate or something like that (I do not quite remember).
01:59:09 <oerjan> i've linked this before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQkvqJJvR9U
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02:02:45 -!- dipperswett has set topic: This channel is logically pubbed. | The channel where Sir Fungellot does not [REDACTED]. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/.
02:05:01 <zzo38> I think I have played characters of levels from 2 all the way to 2 to 27 and now have two characters active (in campaigns that interfere with each other)
02:19:00 <mauris> shachaf: is `inNu . outNu = id` and `inMu . outMu = id`?
02:19:23 <shachaf> Also the other way around.
02:24:44 <shachaf> mauris: Nu f and Mu f are fixed points of f.
02:26:49 <oerjan> largest and smallest, no?
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02:45:06 <zzo38> Is there a way to tell aptitude that a package is already installed even though it is not installed?
02:48:58 <shachaf> oerjan: To the degree that that makes sense when you have a category rather than an ordering.
02:49:02 <shachaf> Terminal and initial, at any rate.
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03:12:01 <mauris> '<dipperswett> "Dear Keean and Ava Ashling. Your son is alive. Sincerely, Duvessa Ashling."' isn't that a weird way for her to address her parents / talk about her twin brother?!
03:18:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[€]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43941&oldid=43925 * 123.151.64.143 * (+1)
03:24:05 <HackEgo> olist 1000: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti
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03:39:11 <oren> Damn! stars everywhere, I died
03:39:15 <shachaf> unfortunately the Os have yet to be listed
03:41:19 <oren> I've beaten Imperishable Night but I've yet to get anywhere near beating Double Dealing Character
03:53:18 <zzo38> Many computer games have a high score list that you can type your name, but I generally don't type my name but instead type in something such as the date or level number
03:58:27 <mauris> shachaf: coming back to this, i have no idea how to do inNu/outNu
03:58:44 <shachaf> One of them is easier than the other one.
03:58:53 <shachaf> They're pretty much dual to inMu/outMu, if that helps.
03:59:32 <mauris> i haven't done those yet, but i guess it's the same kind of "one of them is easier than the other one" situation there, if they're duals?
04:00:15 <shachaf> But you might find a type without existentials easier to think about?
04:00:37 <shachaf> Really it's the same situation with both, though. You're either producing and consuming a universal, or you're producing and consuming an existential.
04:00:48 <shachaf> In both cases, you get to choose the type for one of them and not for the other.
04:13:16 <oerjan> shachaf: end of the world slightly postponed hth
04:13:51 <shachaf> oerjan: prediction: durkon defeats roy, wrecan defeats veldrina hth
04:15:08 <oerjan> i have an uncertain memory that i may have thought of that honor thing, but i didn't actually expect rich burlew to actually _use_ that aspect of norse mythology...
04:15:49 <shachaf> oerjan: hasn't it already come up twice
04:16:19 <shachaf> e.g. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html
04:17:11 <oerjan> also, a helpful thought: no one else can help roy _fight_, but there are a lot of priests there and there might not be any rule against them _healing_ him...
04:18:04 <zzo38> Does that count as to help you to fight? Not really, but maybe it kind of is, I do not know how they would to consider such thing?
04:19:53 <oerjan> zzo38: i mean, no one else can directly attack for him
04:20:09 <oerjan> it remains to be seen what the actual rules are
04:20:42 <zzo38> But I am just making suggestion, I don't actually know.
04:21:15 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm wondering whether to make `olist print a link
04:21:21 <shachaf> especially now that it doesn't have to zero-pad
04:21:56 <shachaf> olist xyz into oots0xyz.html
04:22:39 <zzo38> shachaf: I still think may be better to do it properly by adding the correct amount of zero-padding such as in case it go beyond 999
04:22:53 <shachaf> zzo38: It just went to 1000.
04:23:01 <shachaf> And there are no more zeros.
04:23:29 <zzo38> OK, I suppose it take much longer if they ever decide to go to 10000 then they would have to change it anyways and it would take a long time.
04:24:15 <zzo38> I know that `danddreclist does print a link, but that one is the same URL each time; see other stuff you have too, whether or not it does same or differently links each time based on that.
04:31:16 <oerjan> getting to 10000 seems rather unlikely
04:32:00 <Sgeo> Does the "Don't kill other god's bodyguards" rule apply to bodyguards or to the priests too?
04:32:03 <oerjan> shachaf: ok so it was mentioned, i guess for foreshadowing
04:32:13 <shachaf> oerjan: it was also mentioned in another case
04:33:30 <Sgeo> Also not every priest there agrees with Durkon
04:33:34 <Sgeo> erm, agrees with Roy
04:33:43 <Sgeo> I assume, some might side with the god that they represent?
04:34:54 <oerjan> Sgeo: i think what Hel said is _very_ likely to make most of those Gods change their opinion
04:35:39 <Sgeo> Can they even change their vote? I can't believe that Hel is that dumb to say that if the gods can change their minds
04:36:31 <oerjan> Sgeo: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0994.html is pretty clear that priests cannot attack other priests
04:36:48 <oerjan> Sgeo: i assume she did vote last on purpose, yes
04:37:16 <Sgeo> Oh, but they might instruct their priests to act in a way contrary to their prior opinion
04:37:23 <Sgeo> Can priests hurt bodyguards?
04:38:04 <oerjan> that may not have been explicitly mentioned yet
04:39:37 <oerjan> i recommend assuming some narrative causality hth
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05:23:03 <zzo38> In this tsume shogi game sometimes there is multiple possibilities for the computer-controlled pieces to be played out, although only one is played. Sometimes the others are obvious, but sometimes it isn't so it might help to also have one mode to move the pieces by yourself in case you want to examine such possibilities.
05:31:26 <Sgeo> "Acting against your god's wishes is probably hazardous to your eternal afterlife."
05:32:01 <zzo38> Yes, although you might not necessarily care about an afterlife
05:33:05 <shachaf> mauris is learning all sorts of jams
05:41:22 <zzo38> At least my opinion (and that of some other people) is: the biggest Greed is wanting an afterlife.
05:48:37 <oren> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm new characters in green
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05:53:33 <oren> Now you can spell the band ℃-ute properly
06:00:43 <oren> or you can state in three characters that ℚ⊂ℝ
06:16:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: do you think something like Tajuru Preserver that protects you from _discard_ effects would be possible to work in the rules?
06:17:37 <b_jonas> of course it might be strange with draw-and-discard effects
06:17:46 <b_jonas> (or discard-and-draw effects of red)
06:18:12 <b_jonas> so it might be abusable if you also donate something
06:18:27 <b_jonas> but there are probably easier ways that that to draw a ton of cards
06:18:43 <zzo38> I am not quite sure? I do not see the reason why it should not work
06:21:21 <oren> I'm gonna go ahead and draw the kelvin sign as °K
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06:56:50 * oerjan hits oren with the saucepan ===\__/
07:00:51 <shachaf> what does it take to get the saucepan, huh?
07:02:03 <shachaf> Since when is mauris on this continent?
07:02:09 <lambdabot> Local time for mauris is Fri Aug 28 03:02:01
07:04:17 <shachaf> oerjan: who's the person who knows the name thundershield twh
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07:06:03 <oerjan> iirc she gave him that permission to return that never got back to him
07:07:12 <oerjan> she certainly looked short
07:07:28 <shachaf> Wait, I was looking at the wrong person.
07:27:53 <oerjan> oh she may not have been shown before http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html
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08:03:30 <mauris> shachaf: yes somehow i am in florida!
08:04:00 <shachaf> en route to california, right?
08:05:24 <mauris> that would be cool but sadly i'm staying within this state until like, mid-september, and then going back home :(
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08:49:10 <HackEgo> celiccoin rimcoin tbarbaz,ohmy!coin iectcoin omagecoin agecoin subrientcoin rezcoin braincantcoin picoiicoin heformacoin beathcoin consurplandcoin ignercoin briggcoin abcdefencoin c-coin gizattecoin 5-longcoin brakcoin
08:49:23 <b_jonas> um what? "tbarbaz,ohmy!coin" ?
08:49:31 <b_jonas> what language is this using?
08:49:58 <HackEgo> partratrecoin liqcoin bfmcoin ypecoin vcoin cowrchemicasmitcoin azararicoin bflipcoin brbcoin bogurcoin egiambdarcoin noilancoin obbecoin tratcoin compalcoin bigcoin nonozcoin kimcoin dourcoin brecoin
08:50:27 <HackEgo> rumecoin maridgemacoin pietcoin womensiblecoin dd/ddcoin venandcoin anyngnedcoin slasscoin sbeezcoin easyecoin hatcoin orovskicoin linimcoin iikerefiftinuarelecomcoin bullycoin factcoin mechecoin facecoin rdwoncoin salcoin
08:52:20 <hppavilion[1]> Now someone just needs to make a chart of unit conversions
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09:01:59 <fizzie> b_jonas: English and esolangs.
09:02:52 <myname> what is the esolang part based on?
09:03:04 <fizzie> myname: esolangs.org "Language list" article, if I remember right.
09:03:33 <HackEgo> furscript dzzz reverseme kipple glypho flog .gertrelnokoff kelxquoia rflct superl when tg brainfche goto++ unreall torylambda tworb liquish catch mouse
09:04:22 <fizzie> It's sometimes a bit too plagiaristic, but not all of those are actually real.
09:07:30 <oerjan> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Foobar_and_Foobaz_and_Barbaz,_oh_my! hth
09:09:06 <oerjan> torylambda, the conservative functional language
09:09:33 <rdococ> sometimes I feel like every programming language has already been made
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09:34:00 <LewisMCYoutube> Hi, I heard this channel is weird in that wisdom thing.
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09:55:41 <rdococ> is there a programming language based on the stanley parable?
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09:58:29 <Slereah> that's a pretty broad question
09:58:48 <Slereah> <rdococ> is there a programming language based on the stanley parable?
09:59:29 <rdococ> tell me, what language
10:01:24 <Slereah> Also what would being based on the Stanley Parable entail
10:02:43 <Slereah> The Stanley Parable is basically just a choose your own adventure thing
10:02:48 <rdococ> maybe programs made with the language are games like the stanley parable with a lot of endings?
10:02:50 <Slereah> It's just a bunch of branching choices
10:03:03 <rdococ> sort of like my Folder really
10:03:04 <Slereah> It's not very specific to it
10:03:32 <rdococ> you could even remake the stanley parable in Folder, and even have all the audio and stuff, and it won't be that hard
10:06:06 <LewisMCYoutube> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf
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10:53:15 <boily> @ask oerjan you now wield a saucepan?
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11:23:46 <MDude> I would think that one use for unit tests would be as a form of search query that lets you search libraries to see if there's already a function that passes.
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12:57:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43942&oldid=43831 * Vioz- * (+2)
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12:59:48 <oren> I am wroking on a new unix utility
13:00:52 <oren> right now it's called ./a.out, happy?
13:01:16 <izabera> it'd be better to call it MEGATRON2773.d21
13:01:43 <izabera> memorable names help a lot
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13:03:02 <oren> ./a.out '%i%i' '%i{a+b}'
13:03:37 <oren> reads records of two integers at a time (32-bit) and writed out their sums
13:03:57 <izabera> ...you're writing a calculator?
13:04:13 <oren> a streaming calculatore
13:04:33 <oren> you define a function from input records to output records
13:05:10 <izabera> while (scanf(argv[1],something)) printf(argv[2],something); ?
13:05:48 <oren> yeah it is sort of like that but dynamic
13:06:45 <oren> awk works on plaintext. my utility is for binary
13:07:47 <oren> ./a.out '%F' '%F{F^0.5}'
13:07:54 <oren> ./a.out '%F' '%F{a^0.5}'
13:08:15 <oren> the variables are numbered in base 26 like in excel
13:10:41 <oren> so you can have an input record like '%i%F%20s%i', then a is an int, b is a double, c is a 20 character long string, and d is an int
13:11:30 <oren> you can also have delimited records like '%i%{a}s'
13:14:21 <oren> I might also make equivalents to grep and sort
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13:37:09 <dipperswett> @tell mauris Re talking about her twin brother: yes, it certainly is.
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13:42:48 <dipperswett> `run echo -e '\x034,9S\x039,4T\x034,9O\x039,4P\x034,9 \x039,4T\x034,9H\x039,4E\x034,9 \x039,4M\x034,9A\x039,4D\x034,9N\x039,4E\x034,9S\x039,4S' > madness
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13:58:24 <mroman> I found my python image script again!
13:59:34 <mroman> now I just need a camera that produces bad images
14:00:47 <mroman> coincidentally I'm on vacation!
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14:02:59 <mroman> izabera: where do you live?
14:03:19 <mroman> Finland, the land of fins.
14:03:47 <mroman> Every now and then you'll step into some fishy parts.
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14:04:56 <mroman> that's not too far away
14:05:02 <mroman> depending on *where* in italy exactly
14:05:17 <mroman> like... rich italy or poor italy?
14:05:34 <mroman> (super-rich italy obviously means vatican)
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14:06:04 <mroman> `learn vatican is the super-rich part of italy.
14:06:06 <HackEgo> Learned 'vatican': vatican is the super-rich part of italy.
14:06:31 <mroman> `learn vatican is the super-rich part of italy. Sadly, it has a huge crime rate.
14:06:33 <HackEgo> Learned 'vatican': vatican is the super-rich part of italy. Sadly, it has a huge crime rate.
14:06:48 <mroman> `learn vatican is the super-rich part of italy. Sadly, it has a huge crime rate. You will be robbed.
14:06:50 <HackEgo> Learned 'vatican': vatican is the super-rich part of italy. Sadly, it has a huge crime rate. You will be robbed.
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15:13:33 <HackEgo> cat: Requiescat in pace.: No such file or directory
15:13:33 <HackEgo> cat: HackEgo!!!!! Are you still alive???: No such file or directory
15:20:57 <dipperswett> All right, I don't know why my "loudly" utility isn't working.
15:20:59 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/env python \ import itertools \ inp = raw_input() \ cyc = itertools.cycle(["\00304,09","\00309,04"]) \ print "".join(cyc.next() + c for c in inp)
15:21:29 <dipperswett> `loudly It doesn't do anything; it just hangs for 30 seconds and then says "No output". Why is that?
15:22:02 <puckipedia> dipperswett: I would guess the stuff you put after the `loudly is arguments, not raw_input?
15:22:38 <HackEgo> bash: Let's: command not found \ Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/loudly", line 3, in <module> \ inp = raw_input() \ EOFError: EOF when reading a line
15:22:50 <dipperswett> `run echo Let\'s try that again again. | loudly
15:22:51 <HackEgo> Let's try that again again.
15:37:40 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric pro,
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15:38:47 <dipperswett> `run echo "I'm going to stop now." | loudly
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15:40:07 <ashl> ''.join(chain.from_iterable(izip(cycle(["\00304,09","\00309,04"]), inp)))
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15:42:07 <ashl> at least it has no weird side-effects in a generator expression!
15:42:47 <Frooxius> I mean the greeting! The color combination hurts! D: But that too :P
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15:58:36 <ashl> `run echo "''.join(chain.from_iterable(izip(cycle([\"\\00304,09\",\"\\00309,04\"]), inp)))" | loudly
15:58:37 <HackEgo> ''.join(chain.from_iterable(izip(cycle(["\00304,0,
15:59:12 <ashl> why did i bother quoting that myself
15:59:18 <ashl> `run loudly < loudly
15:59:19 <HackEgo> bash: loudly: No such file or directory
15:59:25 <ashl> `run loudly < $(which loudly)
16:02:22 <myname> `run echo 12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 | loudly
16:02:23 <HackEgo> 1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789,
16:02:49 <myname> why does it cut at 49 chars?
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16:03:25 <ashl> `run echo 12 | loudly | wc -c
16:03:57 <ashl> `run echo 7 49 \* p | bc
16:03:58 <HackEgo> (standard_in) 1: syntax error
16:04:09 <ashl> `run echo 7 49 \* p | dc
16:04:23 <ashl> what's the length limit on IRC messages
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17:37:57 <dipperswett> ashl: I think the length limit is 512, but that's including metadata.
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17:38:58 <dipperswett> In HackEgo's case, each message is prefixed with ":HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
17:39:03 <dipperswett> > length ":HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
17:40:32 <zzo38> Also each message must end with CRLF does that count too or not?
17:40:42 <dipperswett> So the maximum body size for HackEgo is...
17:41:22 <b_jonas> wait, I have the computation for that in my notes
17:42:08 <b_jonas> see http://dpaste.com/0EBGH2K
17:42:12 <dipperswett> Each mIRC color code is six bytes (though I could use five instead), so each one-byte character ends up at 7 bytes, so the limit ends up being...
17:42:30 <b_jonas> you can get more if you use the name of the actual target channel/user.
17:42:47 <b_jonas> and your username and host (it's worth to choose a short username)
17:42:58 <zzo38> Yes, I thought that too, shorten your username
17:43:14 <zzo38> (b_jonas has just "~x")
17:43:17 <b_jonas> but you can't depend on your nick completely because the server may change it asynchronously on a colision
17:43:34 <b_jonas> dipperswett: no, do count the channel name at least
17:43:44 <b_jonas> dipperswett: 50 char long channel names rarely come up
17:43:57 <b_jonas> dipperswett: so use the name of the actual target channel or nick (which you _do_ know) for the computation
17:44:19 <b_jonas> also, you get one more byte from a NOTICE than from a PRIVMSG :-)
17:44:26 <dipperswett> b_jonas: so... the maximum body size for HackEgo sending to #esoteric is 457 bytes, then?
17:45:22 <zzo38> Yes you would (and a reply which is not itself meant to be auto-replied to should be NOTICE anyways)
17:46:53 <zzo38> You could also change the IP-address/domain-name, if I was allowed to have "zzo38computer.org" instead of "24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca" then it would be shorter.
17:47:10 <dipperswett> Whelp, it doesn't handle multi-byte characters correctly.
17:47:23 <zzo38> But they won't do it even though I would said so
17:47:32 <b_jonas> dipperswett: dunno, I can't do additions now. you figure it out.
17:48:25 <b_jonas> dipperswett: basically, you have to have ":nick!user@host PRIVMSG target :-message\r\n" to fit in 512 bytes
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18:03:23 <zzo38> Why do I often get this error: Warning: Cannot convert string "-*-helvetica-medium-r-*-*-12-*-*-*-*-*-*" to type FontStruct
18:03:33 <zzo38> It is not the font I am trying to use
18:04:03 <zzo38> Is it trying to use Helvetica instead of Fixed and if so, why?
18:04:11 <b_jonas> zzo38: that error from running what program? I don't get the context
18:05:08 <zzo38> Many programs give that error, although the program still runs.
18:05:08 <coppro> it is incorrect to think of it as you "get"ing an error
18:05:15 <zzo38> And I get no problems with the program
18:05:17 <coppro> all that is occurring is that your program is printing that string
18:08:24 <zzo38> Yes, although it seems many programs do
18:09:15 <zzo38> Xterm also shows a similar message the first time you display a menu (although many of the * are changed to other things)
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18:14:26 <zzo38> Some things for my new Dungeons&Dragons character I did not fill in yet, such as: eye, height, weight, age, alphabet.
18:15:32 <zzo38> How can you do with aptitude to check what commands are installed by a package?
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18:26:15 <b_jonas> zzo38: "alphabet"? what does that maen in this context?
18:26:31 <b_jonas> did you fill in the blood type yet?
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18:30:15 <zzo38> Blood type isn't one of the stuff that would be important here. (If it ever does become important then I suppose we can decide at random at that point)
18:31:15 <zzo38> Alphabet means what kind of alphabets to use for writing; they list the alphabets of the languages in the Dungeons&Dragons book but they didn't list this one (it says they have their own language, but not any details such as alphabet)
18:31:47 <stalem> zzo38 fontstruct eh? nice, could i have a look at your work?
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18:32:32 <zzo38> I do not use fontstruct
18:33:06 <stalem> oh i thought so seeing as it was included in your error message
18:33:24 <stalem> but i geuss you got a font from there?
18:34:01 <zzo38> No, that is something to do with the X window protocol
18:34:17 <zzo38> "FontStruct" is the data type used for font data
18:38:50 <stalem> fair enough haha i had no idea
18:41:09 <zzo38> For designing printer fonts I prefer METAFONT
18:41:52 <zzo38> (For screen fonts, tile editor editing by pixels work best in my opinion, though)
18:43:10 <stalem> hm, curious you should say, because fontstruct.com is just that; font design mosaic style. truetype instead of bitmaps, but still works great for pixel fonts
18:44:43 <stalem> but as i'm not experienced in font creation, metafont and tile editor are prob far better editor
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18:45:57 <Taneb> Help I'm teaching someone monads
18:46:22 <zzo38> The Computer Modern fonts used with TeX are made with METAFONT. I also made a set of chess icons with METAFONT
18:46:31 <dipperswett> Taneb: why are you teaching someone monads?
18:47:00 <dipperswett> Does he know Haskell? Does he already understand how to do I/O?
18:47:11 <Taneb> He knows a bit of Haskell but not much
18:47:19 <zzo38> Taneb: When using with Haskell programming (or possibly some other computer programming) I believe it seem best to explain in terms of list comprehensions if you know that already
18:47:26 <Taneb> Also I cannot get into my salsa
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18:47:45 <dipperswett> Generally, one should understand I/O before learning monads.
18:47:49 <zzo38> Because you can see how the monad operations are corresponding to list comprehension stuff, and then you can see it is generalized.
18:48:18 <zzo38> dipperswett: Some people believe that, some don't. My own opinion is not; it can be learn at same time
18:48:46 <Taneb> dipperswett, I'm avoiding talking about IO
18:49:05 <Taneb> It's a monad, sure, but it leads people to the red herring that "Monads are about IO"
18:49:12 <dipperswett> One shouldn't learn monads *in order to* understand IO.
18:49:25 <dipperswett> That's like learning ring theory in order to understand arithmetic.
18:49:29 <zzo38> Yes that is true you should avoid that it is aboit I/O
18:49:47 <zzo38> Nevertheless it seem one example of it.
18:50:13 <Taneb> So I am showing him Maybe and []
18:50:20 <Taneb> Not sure where to go after that... maybe Writer?
18:50:22 <zzo38> Whether or not you know how to make I/O in Haskell, you can understand its working also by monad (same you can also understand lists working by monad, even if you already know lists working)
18:50:58 <zzo38> I would probably start with lists and list comprehensions, since if you already know list comprehension even from other programming languages, you may see how it is generalized.
18:51:55 <zzo38> (And then you can easily see what return, fmap, and join for lists mean and then also what bind means, since you can see this bind also related to list comprehensions)
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19:33:51 <b_jonas> wtf you must be kidding me
19:34:06 <b_jonas> sorry, I'm trying to see what this linker error means
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19:37:35 <zzo38> What error and what circumstance? If it is the bug then you should try to figure out and possibly to report. What linker is it?
19:37:52 <b_jonas> that fails to define this template function
19:38:09 <zzo38> Ah, but what library is it?
19:38:20 <b_jonas> wait, I'm still looking at it
19:38:37 <zzo38> Which is a library for doing what?
19:39:33 <b_jonas> there is a definition here
19:39:41 <b_jonas> that's a different overload
19:39:56 <b_jonas> this constructor has like twelve overloads
19:40:41 <b_jonas> hmm, it doesn't seem to be defined
19:40:47 <b_jonas> opencv is a library for image processing
19:41:16 <dipperswett> Taneb: did I ever tell you my "it's impossible to understand monads" idea?
19:41:37 <dipperswett> People often try to come up with some summary of what a monad is, which is both accurate and easy to understand.
19:41:49 <Taneb> Oh no, that is absolutely true
19:42:02 <dipperswett> Along the lines of "monads are a certain type of container", or "a monad is a context in which a computation can execute", or something like that.
19:42:17 <b_jonas> the definition missing is that of template<typename T> cv::Mat_<T>::Mat_(int ndims, const int *sizes, T *data, const size_t *steps);
19:42:35 <dipperswett> I think that it's really not possible to come up with a "good" summary.
19:42:58 <b_jonas> dipperswett: is that like the "monad tutorial fallacy"?
19:43:23 <dipperswett> You don't understand monads by realizing that monads are really just some simple underlying thing.
19:43:46 <dipperswett> You understand monads by knowing the definition of a monad, and enough examples that you can see how they're related to each other and how other things relate to the examples.
19:44:11 <b_jonas> dipperswett: definitely sounds like the monad tutorial fallacy
19:44:18 <dipperswett> b_jonas: is that the same as the "I've figured out the secret" fallacy?
19:44:49 <dipperswett> You struggle for a long time to understand something, and then after learning some fact, you finally understand the concept.
19:45:01 <dipperswett> You conclude that "the secret" to understanding the concept is whatever the last fact you learned was.
19:45:22 <dipperswett> And so you go out and write a blog post that's supposed to make it easy for everyone by telling them "the secret".
19:45:30 <b_jonas> dipperswett: https://byorgey.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/abstraction-intuition-and-the-monad-tutorial-fallacy/
19:45:36 <b_jonas> dipperswett: yes, sounds like that
19:46:02 <dipperswett> It doesn't work, because "the secret" is merely one of the crucial components. People need to know all of them, not just the one.
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19:47:31 <zzo38> I did suggest to do by example and also by definition
19:49:46 <dipperswett> I figure that if I wanted to teach people mathematics, I'd try to explain everything.
19:50:27 <dipperswett> The definition. The intuition. Examples. How the intuition describes the examples. How the examples motivate the definition. How the definition satisfies the intuition. And so forth.
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20:26:22 <zzo38> Even the first Dungeons&Dragons character I played which was a level 2 human wizard, I was able to defeat a level 11 human wizard who for some reason was able to use ten magical rings at once, and even had a magic rod in his belt, several spellbooks, etc. I was able to defeat him by stealing the wand (while he thought he had me paralyzed) and breaking it in half, this destroyed all of his rings as well as a necklace he was wearing; his spellbooks we
20:27:58 <zzo38> Earlier, our group of three characters managed to escape detection by disguising ourself as statues and standing next to similarly shaped statues (which the DM says were actually put there to work against us), and writing numbers above them
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20:58:42 <zzo38> The GNU "units" program is using old exchange rates, what program can be use to do currency conversion which can automatically download current exchange rates if configured?
20:59:51 <stalem> why not write one yourself?
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21:00:01 <stalem> otherwise, google does it afaik
21:00:40 <stalem> so i guess a simple script or something to do a google search on the currency conversion, grep the result and print?
21:13:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Mice in a maze]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43943&oldid=41879 * 63.232.95.4 * (+1) /* Mice */
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21:25:46 <fowl> Google is the best calculator
21:26:10 <fowl> It even understands math like 1+2)*3
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21:39:08 <stalem> anyone fancy with regex? i've been stuck with a problematic pattern for the last hour now
21:39:29 <stalem> it should be trivial so i must be doing something horribly wrong
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21:44:28 <stalem> hm no closer but not quite there. the pattern ^[\w\d\{\} ]+(/[\w\d\{\} ]*)+[^\/]$ captures n/n/) but not n/(n)/)
21:44:37 <stalem> while it should capture neither of those
21:47:16 <ashl> by capture do you mean match
21:48:37 <stalem> i sometimes switch places with match and capture groups
21:48:48 <stalem> their definitions that is
21:48:54 <fizzie> Why do you think it shouldn't match those?
21:48:56 <ashl> why shouldn't it match those
21:49:38 <fizzie> n/n/) matches with "n" in the first part, "/n" in first repeat of the paren block, "/" in the other repeat, and ")" matching the [^\/].
21:50:14 <stalem> i guess the [^\/] pattern is wrong then. looking at my pattern i noticed im not even consistent in escaping my slashes
21:50:36 <fizzie> Do you have a simple description of what you want to be matching?
21:50:57 <stalem> i'm writing it right now ;)
21:51:38 <fizzie> (Incidentally, [\w\d] is redundant and the same as [\w], because \w is alpha-and-numeric.)
21:52:31 <stalem> a pattern that matches one or more words, numbers, {, } or spaces, followed by one or more groups consisting of a single forward slash and one or more words, numbers, {, } or spaces
21:52:57 <stalem> should not end in a slash. i e 2/x/{2} is valid while 2//2/ is not
21:53:03 <stalem> thanks for the tip btw!
21:53:39 <stalem> i guess i should read up on regex a bit, i'm feelin a bit rusty now
21:53:56 <fizzie> Is "2//2/" also not valid because of the // in the middle? Because that doesn't fit in your description.
21:54:33 <stalem> "consisting of a _single_ forward slash" i thought i did, but yes, no double slashes
21:54:51 <fizzie> Turning the description directly into a regex would give [\w{} ]+(?:/[\w{} ]+)+
21:55:04 <fizzie> Where the (?:...) can be a (...) but a non-capturing group seems more reasonable.
21:55:46 <stalem> seems to be working wonders!
21:56:27 <fizzie> You're welcome, but I think you did the hard work in writing that description, because I just wrote a mechanical translation of it.
21:56:50 <ashl> why does myndzi do that
21:56:55 <stalem> nah mate, i call it teamwork!
21:57:02 <stalem> badly formatted stick figures
21:57:30 <stalem> fizzie: tho i was thrown off by the [^\/] matching a paren. why would it do that?
21:57:52 <fizzie> You asked for "anything that's not a slash", and a paren is not a slash.
21:58:02 <zzo38> I can just use dc when I can calculate arbitrary precision stuff, I can make such calculation by command-line, it is working OK.
21:58:22 <stalem> of course! now i feel stupider than before hah
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22:04:43 <fizzie> Re earlier discussion, Google used to have a "Finance API", but it was removed in a "spring cleaning". Our esteemed competitor Yahoo! still has a "yahoo.finance.xchange" data source in their "YQL" API.
22:05:30 * ashl frowns at the idea that yahoo is a competitor to google
22:05:34 <stalem> hm i guess datamining the raw html isn't an option?
22:06:52 <fizzie> It's always an option, I just think it's generally inelegant.
22:08:08 <stalem> i agree, but as a last resort it's worth something, i know of some sites that provides daily stock market dumps, but not an api for exchange prices
22:08:52 <fizzie> ashl: Well, I mean, in some areas at least. Gmail vs. Yahoo Mail, and so on.
22:09:28 <ashl> yahoo has a mail service?
22:10:32 <stalem> has had for as long as i can remember
22:10:59 <ashl> i assume their business model is the same as google's, namely churning out ads?
22:12:43 <stalem> come to think of it, i actually have no idea what yahoo's main business interests are since google took over the search engine market
22:13:15 <ashl> i don't even really think of google as a search engine company any more ;)
22:13:19 <ashl> how times have changed
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22:13:34 <fizzie> "According to third-party web analytics providers, Alexa and SimilarWeb, Yahoo! is the highest-read news and media website, with over 7 billion readers per month, being the fourth most visited website globally, as of June 2015."
22:13:45 <fizzie> Not exactly defunct yet.
22:14:03 <stalem> ashl: ah yes remember landline phones? those where the days
22:14:27 <stalem> that is interesting. i guess it must be highly localized cos i never see any yahoo news or media here in the nords
22:14:50 <ashl> stalem: yes, i even had one until a couple of months ago!
22:14:54 <fizzie> They tried to get to social networking, but I think it went about as well as G+.
22:15:15 <izabera> 7 billion readers per month are highly localized?
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22:15:30 <ashl> well, obviously it's not unique readers :P
22:15:50 <izabera> dunno, my grandma goes on yahoo pretty often
22:15:55 <stalem> ashl: nice! why did you have to get rid of it?
22:16:08 <ashl> stalem: i didn't have to, per se, i just moved house
22:16:18 <fizzie> Here (UK) it's pretty hard to get a DSL thing without a bundled landline. I have one, but I don't have a machine plugged in it.
22:16:26 <stalem> izabera: exactly. i think mostly older generations read yahoo, and they are highly localized geographically
22:16:35 <ashl> fizzie: i thought it was impossible unless you were in london
22:16:45 <izabera> ...i was jk, my grandma doesn't know how to use a computer
22:17:09 <stalem> ashl; then i would get a new one! before they're completely lost. i know the newer generations have NO idea what a phone is and are dumbfounded when confronted with one
22:17:17 <ashl> londoners don't tend to have a good idea what things are like outside london :P
22:17:40 <zzo38> I have a landline telephone too
22:17:42 <fizzie> I saw some providers with a "no telephone" option, but it generally didn't seem to save any money really.
22:17:51 <stalem> maybe your grandma has you fooled? but i stand by that i think older generations tend towards yaoo
22:17:57 <zzo38> (Although not with the internet; the internet is with the television service)
22:18:20 <stalem> im more content now that i know people still use landlines at home
22:19:11 <fizzie> In the university campus back home (Finland), you could call local university numbers for free, and they had a dialup modem bank, so the landline was a handy backup internet service if something happened to the campus network.
22:19:21 <stalem> zzo38: interesting, where i come from all three are usually in one package. tv, phone and internet for one price. pick n mix
22:19:25 <fizzie> (They were entirely separate systems.)
22:20:18 <stalem> nice brother of coast! how many finns are on here anyway? or scandinavians in general
22:20:24 <stalem> i get a feeling they're overrepresented
22:22:12 <fizzie> There's been quite a few Finns.
22:23:10 <stalem> been? what have you done with them? :P
22:23:23 <fizzie> I count 5 in the current list of nicks, and one Finnish word that might be.
22:23:43 <stalem> not bad. then we have the icelandic augur
22:23:56 <ashl> the icelandic augur?
22:23:59 <augur> i will never be icelandic!
22:24:01 <fizzie> Also there was someone with a non-Finnish background, who had moved to Finland, but I forget who that was.
22:24:12 <stalem> you are now! EYE OF ICELAND!
22:24:29 <HackEgo> Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus.
22:25:04 <stalem> learn is the command for new entries right?
22:26:22 <augur> to be icelanding, my nick needs more diacritics and shit. aúgurðùrr
22:26:55 <ashl> iceland (v) to add diacritics and shit
22:30:17 <zzo38> I have made up the back story of my new Dungeons&Dragons character and also wrote one for my other character (I lost the previous one if I ever had one); if the other player also write their character back story then I can put those ones into the computer too.
22:30:52 <HackEgo> Sweden is the suburb capital of Norway. It's where all the Nobel prizes are announced, except the Math Prize.
22:31:10 <stalem> unfortunately i've never played d&d
22:32:57 <zzo38> You have not? I have made recording of story of stuff that we do in Dungeons&Dragons game
22:33:39 <stalem> nope. every 'friend' i've ever had never had an interest in it or didn't know what it is
22:33:45 <stalem> i bet it's a ton of fun
22:37:16 <zzo38> It is the 3.5 edition that I play. Some people prefer newer or older versions
22:37:24 <HackEgo> bhrach éifeag formaidh sail t-iar faich smùc ridheana bhean dha garra léig bhear fig dhuidh prìne cnàmh phanach leóghaich h-ait
22:37:37 <fizzie> We didn't have Icelandic, so I went with an approximation.
22:38:51 <stalem> funny thing, i'm actually designing a scripting language for generating fake (spoken) languages
22:39:13 <stalem> so are those true gaelic words?
22:39:45 <zzo38> See if you think these background story are OK, or if there is a mistake, but, when available I will also show to the referee and then possibly we will have to get past him too.
22:40:36 <stalem> i'm a complete noob on this but sure
22:40:41 <zzo38> I want to connect a HP Laserjet 4 printer to my computer but this new computer does not have a parallel port
22:41:03 <stalem> do you have a parallel>usb connector?
22:41:25 <stalem> then that might turn out to be a problem
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22:41:41 <zzo38> This computer has far more USB ports than I should ever need but no parallel port
22:42:32 <stalem> who uses parallel ports nowadays anyways?
22:42:41 <stalem> i recommend a converter or a new printer!
22:44:21 <zzo38> USB isn't very good though. Also a HP Laserjet 4 printer is a pretty good printer; I don't have another PCL laser printer but even if I had I would want to use PCL and laser printer
22:44:36 <fizzie> There are also things you can do conveniently with a parallel port that require extra hardware for USB.
22:44:50 <Hoolootwo> USB is very high-latency, so parallel ports are good for really low-latency stuff
22:46:11 <stalem> i guess that's true. never having to use parallel ports puts me out of perspective
22:46:18 <zzo38> This computer does at least have PS/2 for keyboard and mouse though, and I want to disable support for USB keyboard/mouse for security purposes (but still support filesystem device); how can I do that with Linux?
22:47:18 <zzo38> (I don't like USB automount filesystems either but I have already avoided that I think)
22:47:59 <ashl> what's the security issue
22:49:01 <fizzie> zzo38: One way might be to add "blacklist X" lines in the modprobe configuration for USB input drivers, so they're not loaded at all.
22:49:24 <fizzie> Possibly "blacklist usbhid" would be enough.
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22:51:42 <Hoolootwo> that wouldn't work for non-HID input devices though
22:52:37 <zzo38> As long as it is not a primary input device (i.e. the keyboard and mouse) I am fine if they can still work with USB
22:53:33 <izabera> @tell oren i found this http://arin.ga/BaYiFD/raw
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23:03:11 <int-e> no disconnect in 11 days
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23:05:47 <stalem> any suggestions about this font being used as a programming font? http://fontstruct.com/fontstructions/show/1179104
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23:07:17 -!- oerjan has set topic: The font of all knowledge | The channel where Sir Fungellot does not [REDACTED]. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/.
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23:08:11 <oren> stalem: very nice
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23:09:17 <stalem> oren: thank you! i am a bit concerned it's too fancy for being useful.
23:09:35 <fizzie> The #$%& sequence looks a bit crowded. But to be fair, it does on this font too.
23:09:53 <shachaf> fizzie: whoa whoa whoa, no need to get rude about it
23:10:55 <stalem> haha yeah it's a tight squeeze
23:11:25 <oren> I used to use Sanafon Obi, so yours doesn't look swishy by comparison
23:11:34 <stalem> i guess it's a real issue with monospaced fonts; i and j provide lots of spacing while the chars you mentioned are toghtly packed
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23:12:31 <stalem> can't seem to be able to find that font, but good thing i'm not overdoing it then
23:13:46 <oren> http://sana.s12.xrea.com/2_sanafonmaru.html
23:13:54 <oren> oh, it was maru
23:14:12 <oren> Maybe the Obi font was from a different website
23:14:30 <stalem> you didn't program in japanese did you?
23:15:06 <oren> No, but I can read and write it.
23:15:07 <stalem> you did didn't you? :D i found the page http://sana.s12.xrea.com/2_sanafonobi.html
23:15:17 <oren> Oh there it is
23:15:24 <boily> stalellom! helloren!
23:15:53 <stalem> not bad mate, i'm impressed by ppl reading/writing japanese
23:16:00 <oren> afk getting buffalo wings, back in 15 min...
23:16:27 <boily> afk getting a haircut. be back in amodné.
23:16:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: OTHERWORLDLY CHICKEN).
23:17:22 <lambdabot> boily asked 12h 24m 7s ago: you now wield a saucepan?
23:17:22 <lambdabot> stalem said 10h 21m 23s ago: hey. i realized i reacted over the top back when and i know it's not an excuse, but i'm a bit of a fuck-up. i guess my lesson is to do my research before attempting stupid shit
23:17:44 <oerjan> stalem: sorry, i assumed boily's message was the only one
23:17:52 <stalem> nah that's ok i dont mind really
23:17:56 <oerjan> otherwise i'd have checked that in private
23:18:08 <stalem> i guess the whole channel might as well get the apology, i did write everything in here so
23:18:22 <oerjan> @tell boily The saucepan is also ancient hth
23:18:30 <stalem> it's mostly that we spoke primarily so i thought it would be appropriate to /msg it
23:21:36 <oerjan> stalem: btw the interesting part of what you did was showing that those are the _only_ solutions. although i think you went a bit fast on excluding the extra 0s case (it's still true, i checked)
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23:28:57 <stalem> oerjan: well what do you know, i made a small contribution after all. too bad the page is blasted into cyblivion now haha
23:29:33 <stalem> oerjan: btw what do you mean the extra 0s case? the 0 \/ part?
23:30:01 * oerjan didn't save the page either, although he considered it
23:31:42 <oerjan> it's a bit subtle because it can preserve the length for a little while. e.g. 2 2 -> 0 0
23:32:59 <oerjan> 4 1 4 1 -> 4 1 0 0 -> 0 0 0 0
23:33:03 <stalem> well, if it's worth it maybe i could take some time to rewrite it i dunno
23:33:40 <stalem> it is, that's true. pretty much like shifting the sequence to the left slowly, before 0 0 becomes the instruction and it dies
23:34:52 <stalem> i'm a bit bummed now i didn't pipe my experiment sequences to a file
23:39:20 <oerjan> stalem: btw there is an elegant way to see why that equation has only the solutions 2,2 and 1,3
23:40:09 <oerjan> hm if i could remember what the equation was...
23:40:49 <shachaf> oerjan: is the saucepan more ancient than you twh
23:40:56 <oerjan> you can rewrite that as x * (y - 1) = 2
23:41:04 -!- variable has changed nick to function.
23:41:12 <shachaf> ok that might've come across as ruder than i intended
23:41:43 <oerjan> shachaf: possibly not hth
23:41:46 <int-e> hmm, pan... ---(##)
23:41:55 <Taneb> How many solutions are there of w^3 + x^3 + y^3 = z^3 for natural w,x,y,z?
23:42:21 <Taneb> Are there infinite?
23:42:21 <oerjan> Taneb: i dunno but i'm pretty sure i've seen that discussed somewhere
23:43:16 <stalem> oerjan: that's neat! i'm noting it for when i rewrite the article
23:44:31 <stalem> also why does hth and twh mean in this realm? i'd like to be enlightened, cos i'm pretty sure hth doesnt mean hope this helps
23:44:55 <HackEgo> twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.
23:45:31 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
23:45:35 <Taneb> oerjan, the answer seems to be "some"
23:45:42 <oerjan> stalem: that should clear it up hth
23:45:59 <HackEgo> A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird.
23:46:12 <stalem> esoteric in its essence
23:46:28 <stalem> everything is nothing?
23:46:29 <int-e> hackego does not know everything
23:46:47 <stalem> ergo hackego knows nothing
23:47:46 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing.
23:48:13 <mauris> i think i sort of derived the meaning of hth twh twnh tdnh etc. through osmosis :(
23:48:21 <HackEgo> fomething denotes the obsolescence of clinical insanity.
23:48:47 <int-e> `? something-that-isn't-in-hackego's-wisdom
23:48:54 <mauris> yesterday shachaf typed "tmnhh" and i understood it and it was worrying
23:49:17 <int-e> `? things boily likes
23:49:18 <HackEgo> Fire is good. I like fire. Also chicken. And phở.
23:49:22 <shachaf> i understood an oerjan acronym which i think even oerjan was surprised i understood
23:49:27 <shachaf> i don't remember what it was, though
23:49:30 <int-e> I think that's all the things in HackEgo's wisdom.
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23:49:44 <stalem> shachaf: a year or so here and i'm there with you
23:50:00 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø?
23:50:37 <stalem> shachaf sorry that was meant for mauris eeh
23:51:10 <fizzie> I was about to say that that's the DVI/HDMI thing, but that's TMDS.
23:51:14 <int-e> that doesn't make sense ;-)
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23:51:46 <fizzie> Transition-diminished minusfrential signaling.
23:52:16 <shachaf> oerjan: what was that acronym i figured out recently twh
23:52:24 <stalem> all i can think of is the dance must stay alive always
23:52:42 <fizzie> The ambiguity of does/doesn't dh in understanding these acronyms.
23:52:48 <int-e> stalem: not bad, but "that doesn't make sense at all" was the intended reading.
23:53:13 <shachaf> int-e: please remain consistent with tdh/tdnh twh hand
23:53:23 <fizzie> tdnms it was just established.. oh, okay.
23:53:48 <stalem> int-e: ah finally some clarity hah!
23:54:19 <int-e> shachaf: I'm consistently inconsistent. You may recall that I've been complaining about tdh a lot.
23:54:33 <oerjan> shachaf: i also don't remember. i'm wondering if my deteriorating memory is karma for making y'all remembering all the acronyms tdnh
23:54:58 <shachaf> int-e: i'd ask you to change the meaning of tdms, but the definition must stand
23:55:39 <oerjan> int-e: my mind revulses at letting d mean "doesn't"
23:57:04 <Taneb> I remember seeing, possibly in a dream, that you need to sum at least n nth powers to get an nth power
23:57:26 <int-e> oerjan: that doesn't bother me (almost resisting the temptation to abbreviate it to "tdbm")
23:57:35 <oerjan> <int-e> that doesn't make sense ;-) <-- on the contrary, that makes double sense hth
23:58:22 <int-e> aww, "iswydt" even has an urban dictionary entry
23:59:18 <oerjan> int-e: is it about sex
23:59:30 <Taneb> I suppose a proof of that would have Fermat's Last Theorem has a trivial whatdoyoucallit
23:59:36 <Taneb> Might begin with c
23:59:37 <int-e> that's actually a good question, it could be.
23:59:56 <int-e> oerjan: but not really