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00:40:17 <rdococ> what are vanilariables?
00:42:47 <MDude> The default state of flavor-based data?
00:43:17 <rdococ> so nothing to do with variables?
00:43:41 <MDude> Other flavors are mixed in to create other values.
00:44:11 <MDude> I just misreal variable's name as vanilariables for some reason.
00:44:38 <MDude> And thought "Hmm, vanilariables, like some kind of variable that's also ice cream?"
00:45:20 <variable> I will not deny that I am similar to ice cream
00:45:27 <oren> hmm I'm getting weird spaces at the beginning of my lines for some reason
00:45:49 <rdococ> maybe you need to fill those in with flake 95s
00:53:25 <oren> MsgBox("dammit", MsgBoxStyle.OkOnly)
00:53:40 <oren> printf debugging for the gui environment
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01:22:17 <oren> basic functionality!
01:22:32 <oren> http://www.orenwatson.be/hahahaha.PNG
01:25:28 <rdococ> how about an accept/reject FSM, but based on The Stanley Parable?
01:26:17 <rdococ> "When Stanley got to a set of three doors, he entered the middle door." or something in the code, so that if player doesn't pick middle door, player loses
01:26:35 <rdococ> or any other door you put
01:29:21 <izabera> oren: how long did it take?
01:31:25 <oren> I was at dinner between 18:45 and 20:45
01:31:46 <izabera> this doesn't really help because timezones and shit
01:31:48 <oren> so only about two hours and most of that was relearning VB
01:32:42 <oren> Now I'm gonna start doing colors, then I'll do ssh
01:33:15 <oren> right now I only have telnet-like connections
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01:36:29 <oren> actually first, how should a terminal react to each of the control characters?
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01:40:51 <izabera> printing crap and breaking everything is a common effect
01:40:56 <zzo38> SHIFT OUT will change to VT100 graphics and SHIFT IN to ASCII, although there are escape codes to change them.
01:41:40 <oerjan> oren: ^S should be as annoying as possible hth
01:41:59 <zzo38> LINE FEED of course does the line feed, and then HORIZONTAL TAB and CARRIAGE RETURN are a few other control character to consider for cursor move, and BELL of course to ring the bell (possibly the visual bell, which could be set by an option).
01:42:30 <oren> maybe I should open a message box on ^S then?
01:42:39 <izabera> please write a terminal where bell can't possibly be enabled
01:42:52 <oren> Warning: this is not supported
01:42:53 <izabera> not even if you actually try it
01:43:31 <oren> Well I don't currently do anything on bell
01:43:36 <izabera> most annoying feature ever immagined
01:43:46 <zzo38> You should add the option to enable the bell though
01:44:05 <izabera> add an option to disable the option that enables the bell
01:44:53 <oren> How about if I just show an icon of a bell in an unobtrusive location on bell
01:44:57 <zzo38> A compile-time option maybe, that would disable the option that enables the bell, then? If it is VB6 then it doesn't really support compile-time options as far as I know
01:45:53 <zzo38> But what I know is that if I was using it I would want to enable the audible bell
01:50:00 <oren> hmm... how about, there's no sound by default, but there is a menu option to turn it on, with an "are you sure?" dialog to prevent izabera from accidentally turning it on
01:50:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Commercial]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43977&oldid=37013 * SuperJedi224 * (+5)
01:50:37 <zzo38> Maybe it can do, although if you don't want sound shouldn't you just mute the system sound? But you can implement that if you want to I suppose
01:50:38 <izabera> should ask "are you reeeeeeeeeally sure? yes no" and preselect the no option
01:51:24 <oerjan> i think the option to turn on should somehow check that there are no other people within shouting distance hth
01:52:28 <zzo38> I don't think so, it can't easily check and shouldn't. Preselecting the "no" option is easy though I believe the MsgBox function in Visual Basic can easily you can program which option is preselected.
01:52:54 <izabera> it should need two keys like nuclear rocket launchers
01:53:25 * izabera is totally not exaggerating
01:53:32 <zzo38> I agree though there should be the option to turn on/off the bell (and possibly also the option to change it to visual bell)
01:53:46 <zzo38> If ANSI music is supported, also the option to independently turn on/off music.
02:00:12 <pikhq> I think that BEL should ring an actual bell HTH.
02:01:10 <izabera> darth sidious used to send BELs to any terminal used by the rebel alliance
02:02:02 <zzo38> If your computer has an actual bell then yes, although in Windows you may make it to be up to the system sounds driver, I would think; just as in X you can just use XBell or XkbBell and then the system X server decides what to do with it.
02:04:22 <oren> VB has the global Beep function
02:05:13 <zzo38> Yes, use that to ring the bell if the user has not disabled it in the terminal configuration menu.
02:05:15 <oren> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/kz27k38z%28v=vs.90%29.aspx
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03:43:04 <Sgeo> "This book would have been printed on recycled paper if it had been printed at all, but since it’s a digital copy, it isn’t. I guess the electrons are recycled, technically."
03:46:15 <oren> I'm still getting used to the idea of
03:46:58 <oren> recycled paper, now youre telling me we recycle electrons
03:49:25 <oren> I'm also still getting used to these if statements like
03:50:00 <oren> If tcpclient Is Nothing Then
03:50:43 <oren> for some reason Is Nothing feels way more emphatic than == 0
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04:04:42 <oren> If Me Is Nothing Then Return False
04:05:08 <oren> that is perfectly cromulent VB code
04:06:15 <oren> Ok apparently that didn't solve the problem.
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05:17:05 <oren> Would it be more secure or less secure if I only implement the REQUIRED parts of ssh?
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06:30:41 <hppavilion[1]> I recommend a programming langauge that interprets SVG code
06:31:04 <izabera> they exist, they're called svg viewers
06:47:46 <zzo38> Well, I have had some ideas of what things I would want to see in a GUI-based program, which are different from what most programs do.
06:58:02 * oerjan is pretty sure his touchpad just clicked without him touching it
07:00:00 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I'd like to hear these ideas out of curiousity
07:00:17 <hppavilion[1]> I have strong interest in GUI at this particular hour
07:03:57 <zzo38> One thing would be in some program you could open the window and if you click it will type the coordinates into the command-line so you can type the other stuff too, it would probably be more useful than the existing ImageMagick GUI (normally ImageMagick does not need a GUI though)
07:05:14 <zzo38> As well as, in many kind of program since you have many mouse button you can use each one different function, left/middle/right button, it is more useful.
07:05:39 <zzo38> For other command though you can just use keyboard, but some thing is position you want to select on the screen or on the grid or whatever, mouse can help with it.
07:06:12 <zzo38> Some older UNIX programs do such thing and Athena scroll-bar and so on, but even though this is good idea many programs do not have it
07:10:30 <rdococ> I'd like to see a fully functional programming language without any textual coding required
07:10:57 <rdococ> Like a turing complete version of Folder.
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07:39:16 <zzo38> My best score on the "vs yourself" mode (this mode is a bit of a hack and is probably unintentional) is 2565 points, today. (It isn't very good)
07:40:56 <b_jonas> what game versys yourself?
07:41:49 <zzo38> The "Amoebax" game, one of the game in the Ubuntu package manager. I had to change the configuration file in order to set the key of both players to same keys, and then you can control both plays by one keys!
07:42:15 <b_jonas> left/middle/right... eh, I'm still not used to that. I press the right mouse button with my middle finger because I'm used to only two mouse buttons.
07:42:55 <b_jonas> don't some people press the three mouse buttons with three separate fingers?
07:45:17 <zzo38> I use different finger per button
07:45:59 <b_jonas> zzo38: for how many buttons?
07:46:11 <zzo38> With three mouse buttons.
07:46:54 <b_jonas> that is probably a better way to use the mouse, and if I wanted to do lots of mousing, I should try to get used to it too
07:47:02 <b_jonas> it might also depend on the mouse hardware though
07:47:09 <zzo38> Athena scrollbar work with all three buttons, and i3-wm can also be configure to use all three buttons when clicking on the title-bar (I have done that too; left-button activates, middle-button switch between floating/tiling, right-button display the protocol/signal menu; I have keybindings for these functions too)
07:47:25 <myname> i don't think this actually matters
07:50:20 <zzo38> I would prefer the mouse without wheel though.
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10:46:04 <b_jonas> hmm, so M:tG has color indicators, including a two-color indicator on at least one card, but no colorless indicator, so that still has to go to an ability?
10:46:30 <b_jonas> mind you, Transguild Courier also has an ability
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11:21:32 <b_jonas> great, there are now new writeups about the icfp contest
11:28:05 <fungot> b_jonas: about halfway through. it helped me concentrate on getting your code working on those few and rare occasions when it was introduced somewhere between fnord
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11:38:52 <fizzie> It was there the whole time.
11:39:38 <HackEgo> sttcoin kceptanthebecoin furgcoin posicoin vlasscoin lispaghcoin 0x6coin eturcoin byiotenzacoin chencoin javitycoin nadirequiemacoin ///coin glangenomiallycoin aienswertrecoin rwlercoin abccoin cyclocoin tedilucoin zlviicoin
11:40:54 <b_jonas> `perl -eprint 10*6.3e6*5.5e3
11:41:01 <b_jonas> `perl -eprintf"%e" 10*6.3e6*5.5e3
11:41:01 <HackEgo> Number found where operator expected at -e line 1, near ""%e" 10" \ (Missing operator before 10?) \ syntax error at -e line 1, near ""%e" 10" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.
11:41:04 <b_jonas> `perl -eprintf"%e",10*6.3e6*5.5e3
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12:49:01 <oren> hmm noone answered my question... If I only implement what is REQUIRED or MUST in the ssh standard, would my implementation be more secure or less secure?
12:50:52 <izabera> larger amount of features != improved security
12:52:07 <oren> except that there might be a more secure cipher than the required on which is optional?
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13:15:01 <stalem> greetings to anyyone awake
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13:39:45 <stalem> so what's going on in the lives of the esoterics?
13:55:54 <stalem> b_jonas: continuing from yesterday/before, my only background is the internet. i have no education in the matters so i guess basic literature would be best
13:56:58 <stalem> @tell ais523 hey thanks for pointing out my use of several state variables. i switched to an enum and the code is much less cluttered and has better overview!
14:11:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DeathScript]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43978 * YourDeathIsComing * (+1602) Created page with "DeathScript is an esoteric programming language created by [[User:YourDeathIsComing]]. It operates on only 3 variables. <br /> <br /> === Commands === The commands are *outpu..."
14:14:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DeathScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43979&oldid=43978 * YourDeathIsComing * (+9)
14:15:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:YourDeathIsComing]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43980&oldid=43952 * YourDeathIsComing * (+22)
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15:09:32 <b_jonas> I was wondering how come Magic: Origins had five common artifacts. that seems a strange occurance. but I think it's because the next block has eldrazi and so will have very few common artifacts, possibly none.
15:09:48 <b_jonas> so basically it's balancing out the next two sets in standard.
15:15:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43981&oldid=43881 * 72.74.32.143 * (+52)
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16:07:29 <quintopia> myname: the creator of deathscript is clearly a beginner. Doesn't know how to implement forms of flow control. It'll be a good language to implement in other languages (like deadfish) because of the minimal complication. (though deadfish is simpler and less stateful, so maybe this would be a "level 2")
16:08:08 <quintopia> actually, "level 3" because "level 1" is rot13 and thue-morse. "level 0" is cat.
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16:20:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43982&oldid=43981 * SuperJedi224 * (+348)
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16:31:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43983&oldid=43982 * SuperJedi224 * (+147) /* Instructions */
16:33:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43984&oldid=43983 * SuperJedi224 * (+89)
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16:40:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43985&oldid=43984 * SuperJedi224 * (+36)
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16:55:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43986&oldid=43985 * SuperJedi224 * (-4) /* Instructions */
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17:09:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43987&oldid=43986 * SuperJedi224 * (+222)
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17:29:54 <HackEgo> olist 1001: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti
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20:21:27 <tswett> Was it boily who started this nick–greeting blend trend?
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20:28:04 <oerjan> <b_jonas> um... no? <-- i'm pretty sure fungot was entirely accurate. at least the first sentence.
20:28:05 <fungot> oerjan: full numeric tower, you will end up doing as my practice for smalltalk is rewriting one of our sgi indy boxes.) to get the design down in the muddy grass to look through
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20:30:34 <int-e> tswett: 2011-08-31 has: 20:45:28: <elliott> helo oerjan 20:45:31: <elliott> heloerjan
20:30:46 * int-e swats oerjan ------#####
20:31:09 * oerjan dodges int-e's fake mega-swatter
20:31:38 <stalem> i thought mondays are always idle days?
20:33:13 <stalem> fungot's a markov chain right?
20:33:13 <fungot> stalem: its 100% pure html/ xml built in functions
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20:33:28 <stalem> hm are you sure fungot?
20:34:46 <oerjan> @tell oren <oren> hmm noone answered my question... If I only implement what is REQUIRED or MUST in the ssh standard, would my implementation be more secure or less secure? <-- probably depends. istr the recent major tls (?) vulnerability happened only to sites implementing a downgrading-to-obsolete-version feature
20:35:33 * int-e . _ _ _|_ _ /######|
20:35:33 * int-e . <_ | | | / | | <_' ==========<#######| oerjan
20:35:33 * int-e . ._> \|\| \_| | ._> \######|
20:35:47 * oerjan well and duly squashed
20:40:45 <stalem> when a lexer returns a token to a parser the token has an associated type iinw. but what is the purpose of that type if the parser can find out by looking at the token's value? or is the type checking faster, say if you use an enum?
20:41:12 <stalem> that should be iinm, don't know how that got inverted
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20:41:54 <stalem> or am i missing something?
20:41:55 <oerjan> lexer in what language
20:42:18 <oerjan> having types improves code reliability, in general
20:42:34 <oerjan> but i don't think it's obligatory
20:42:57 <stalem> i'm coding in c#. ok so they're not an integral part of the parser
20:44:08 <stalem> it's just that i'm thinking about the case of handling opening/closing parens. either i have a lot of different token types, one for opening, one for closing etc...
20:44:51 <stalem> which leads to cluttered code and a lot of switch cases. or, i have general types, but the parser must still ultimately check the value, making the type obsolete in the first place?
20:45:03 <oerjan> in haskell's parsec, there's a lot of types but i think if you use a lexer there's only one for it.
20:46:09 * oerjan thinks he's really not familiar with whatever c# does
20:46:38 <oerjan> although it's a language with objects and subtyping, which changes the options
20:47:13 <oerjan> stalem: i am guessing the types are just so you can handle several lexer results in common, then
20:48:34 <oerjan> i think in C flex parsers, token types are usually just enums. oh hm maybe that's what C# uses types for too
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20:48:50 <stalem> hm i'm feeling silly now asking questions when i don't fully grasp the concept i think
20:49:00 <stalem> i did think of using enums as types tho yeah
20:49:04 <oerjan> stalem: perhaps you should think of the type as just a first coarse division
20:49:56 <stalem> i guess that makes sense. i could also be overthinking this, it's what i do. like i get this feeling my code isn't written "correctly", even tho it does like intended
20:49:57 <oerjan> in flex iirc, it's common to have one enum value for each reserved token, but you'd still have just one type shared for all "identifiers" since they are user named
20:50:19 <stalem> maybe you could call me a perfectionist i dunno
20:50:50 <stalem> could you describe the difference of what you mean by enum and types? cos i'm getting a bit confused now
20:51:05 <stalem> i thought i could use enums AS types?
20:51:27 <stalem> oh no wait sorry i get it now, you're talking about a tool now yes, flex
20:51:47 <oerjan> um i'm mixing a bit here, because C doesn't have subtypes so has to use enums to encode things
20:51:55 <stalem> maybe i'm going the rough path then, writing my code from scratch?
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20:54:54 * stalem dives into it and hopes to return unscathed
20:55:24 <oerjan> i dunno, i think maybe everyone should write a lexer by hand once before going on to tools. i suspect your language's lexing isn't that complicated anyhow. :)
20:58:34 <stalem> that's what i thought as well! if i'm gonna learn tools, i need to know what a lexer/parser does, exactly how BNF is written etc and what better way to learn but doing it yourself?
20:59:40 <stalem> nah it should be fairly easy i hope it resembles lisp quite a bit. it's a simple script i designed for simple natural language generation http://pastebin.com/gnd67AKg
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21:01:43 <stalem> not sure yet if {x y z w} should be if x _ends_ with y or _contains_ y
21:03:10 <stalem> after a quick googling that would be quite interesting
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21:04:47 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: ah i remember such keys from some books my family had - fishes and trees/shrubs, at least
21:05:12 <stalem> (<boolean exp> <jump adress true> <jump adress false>)
21:05:28 <hppavilion[1]> At first I thought a Dichotomous key was basically a Decision Tree
21:05:49 <stalem> reminds me of bytebytejump
21:05:59 <hppavilion[1]> Then I remembered that, /technically/, if you /really/ wanted to, you /could/, in /theory/ loop a question
21:06:49 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: now i'm imagining an xkcd with such a looping key
21:07:12 <oerjan> i guess that would be essentially a flowchart, though
21:07:33 <oerjan> and he's done plenty of those, i think?
21:10:36 <hppavilion[1]> Could a system for defining an infitite finite-state machine be TC?
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21:12:29 <hppavilion[1]> How does one store a flowchart as plaintext I wonder?
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21:26:17 <tswett> stalem: I don't see any reason for the lexer to provide any type information along with the tokens it provides.
21:27:34 <tswett> Just have it yield a bunch of things of type "Token" or something; the lexer's job doesn't involve interpreting the tokens in any way.
21:27:38 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: well, "infinite finite-state machine" is a contradiction in terms; it'd just be an "infinite-state machine".
21:27:45 <shachaf> Huh, timecube.com expired.
21:28:07 <oerjan> shachaf: the end times for sure
21:28:11 <tswett> And a Turing machine *is* a type of infinite-state machine.
21:28:55 <oerjan> the four end times of the apocalypse
21:29:27 <oerjan> in a single rotation of you know what
21:29:37 <shachaf> fungot: I'd like to see you trained on timecube.com
21:29:38 <fungot> shachaf: it seems to me that a list would be car of mumble frotz.
21:29:48 <shachaf> fungot: We are all educated stupid.
21:29:48 <fungot> shachaf: did irp get mentioned now? can i borrow 26.7% of the rayon textile production of the indonesian fnord?
21:32:24 <oerjan> i guess we will have no place to put fungot's important revelation, then.
21:32:24 <fungot> oerjan: rpn is fun too. have you considered changing your nick a bit? i mean, a mailing list one time :)
21:34:20 <fizzie> oerjan: Well, have you?
21:34:33 <fizzie> fungot: Do you have suggestions for a new nick for them?
21:34:33 <fungot> fizzie: can be :p ( /me hunts) don't like spoon feeding. and we know that.
21:34:36 -!- oerjan has changed nick to oerjan_nope.
21:37:18 <stalem> *thanks that should make things a bit easier
21:37:54 <shachaf> fungot: what should my nick be
21:37:54 <fungot> shachaf: i'm only discussing interpretters here. ( just wording changes so as to preserve anonymous access in mit systems. i'm specifically interested in the quality of the individual to choose the exact file he wanted to actually write some programs in shakell?
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21:41:20 <oerjan_nope> `learn Indonesia is a large island country in Asia and the world's most populous muslim country. Its major export is rayon textile from the Indonesian fnord.
21:41:22 <HackEgo> Learned 'indonesia': Indonesia is a large island country in Asia and the world's most populous muslim country. Its major export is rayon textile from the Indonesian fnord.
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22:31:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43988&oldid=43987 * SuperJedi224 * (+546)
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22:42:12 <tswett> I found some web application once that would perform sentiment analysis on my tweets.
22:42:22 <tswett> According to the application, my most negative tweet ever was about Wikia.
22:42:45 <tswett> Now, it just so happens that right after that tweet, I tweeted: "That tweet should be easy for sentiment analysis bots to handle."
22:54:18 <oerjan_nope> tswett: obviously the bot just cheated and read your next message
22:54:27 <tswett> Well, there was a previous tweet saying something like: "I'm really glad I set my browser not to run Flash by default. It makes a lot of web sites much less annoying."
22:55:17 <tswett> And my next tweet was something like: "But not Wikia. Even with Flash disabled, being on Wikia is a really annoying experience."
22:59:30 <Sgeo_> Oh I was scrolled up, oops
23:01:56 <tswett> "A God so stupid that he claims only a single day rotation of Earth - while my Cubic Wisdom has allowed me to create 4 simultaneous days within a single Earth rotation."
23:02:07 <tswett> Wow, I never knew that Gene Ray CREATED the Time Cube.
23:03:26 <tswett> Now, something I'm not clear on.
23:03:40 <tswett> Is the Time Cube a cube? Does it have corners? If it has corners, how many corners does it have?
23:05:49 <HackEgo> os is the accusative plural of us.
23:06:36 <oerjan_nope> it may also be a municipality in norway hth
23:07:06 <oerjan_nope> `learn_append os Also a municipality in Norway.
23:07:08 <HackEgo> Can't open wisdom/o: No such file or directory. \ Learned 'o': Also a municipality in Norway.
23:07:15 <HackEgo> Also a municipality in Norway.
23:07:31 <fizzie> My understanding was that it was a cube, and had 4 corners.
23:07:35 <fizzie> But I'm no Time Cube expert.
23:08:02 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//') \ stuff=$(echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic"
23:09:12 <oerjan_nope> `le/rn os Os is the accusative plural of us. Also a municipality in Norway.
23:09:24 <HackEgo> os is the accusative plural of us.
23:09:47 <HackEgo> wisdom/os \ wisdom/ostrich
23:09:58 <oerjan_nope> `le/rn os/Os is the accusative plural of us. Also a municipality in Norway.
23:10:10 <HackEgo> Os is the accusative plural of us. Also a municipality in Norway.
23:11:10 <tswett> Aww, http://www.thewisesthuman.com/ is also expired.
23:11:23 -!- oerjan_nope has changed nick to oerjan.
23:12:00 <shachaf> fizzie: are you a lambda cube expert
23:13:21 <oerjan> or can he polymorph into one
23:14:51 <shachaf> what's with these one-page olists
23:18:53 <APic> Ring of Polymorph ♥
23:21:17 <tswett> "Teaching that a Cube has '6 sides' with no top & bottom, induces an evil curse that pervades all academic institutions."
23:21:38 <tswett> Yeah, I hate it when people teach that a cube has six sides with no top and bottom.
23:22:29 <oren> http://www.rfc-archive.org/getrfc.php?rfc=2410
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