00:02:30 -!- contrapumpkin has joined.
00:04:29 <hppavilion[1]> I found that Python has a tarfile module that will come in handy for Archive Formats in TaurusVM
00:05:17 -!- aretecode has joined.
00:05:37 <hppavilion[1]> But what should the file extensin be?
00:05:42 <hppavilion[1]> *extension
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00:08:30 <hppavilion[1]> I think I'll change Taurus Executables to .taurus files and make the archive format .tau
00:09:42 <oren_> are there any programs that use unicode in their file extnsion?
00:09:55 <fizzie> I think I recall something.
00:09:58 <fizzie> Nothing very serious.
00:10:01 <fizzie> Maybe esolangs.
00:11:16 <oren_> helloworld.ç
00:11:32 <fizzie> Can't find anything right now. Even Ellipsis seems to use just '.' as the extension.
00:11:55 <fizzie> Which is kind of strange, since it uses the Unicode ellipsis character in the source code.
00:12:38 <fizzie> Well, actually it uses "..", so that it's "foo..."; maybe that wouldn't work so well with the Unicode ellipsis.
00:14:01 <oren_> what if I translated all keywords and stl functions, and made the extension .срр
00:14:41 <hppavilion[1]> I could, of course, make the Taurus Executables .♉ files
00:15:36 <hppavilion[1]> But that seems like a bad idea
00:16:35 <oren_> whitespace programs should be named 'hello. ' 
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00:16:46 <oren_> and the like
00:16:58 <hppavilion[1]> Fair enough
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00:17:26 <hppavilion[1]> Or 'hello. [\t][\n]'
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00:20:21 <hppavilion[1]> 'hello.     
00:20:23 <hppavilion[1]> '
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00:23:06 <hppavilion[1]> Hi, puckipedia!
00:23:11 <hppavilion[1]> Hi, JesseH2!
00:23:29 <JesseH2> My connection was reset. No understand.
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00:23:40 <hppavilion[1]> Weird
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00:52:09 <hppavilion[1]> Horn clauses are cool
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01:11:35 <hppavilion[1]> However, we need something more esoteric
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01:17:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symball]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44217&oldid=44203 * GoogolPlanck * (+522) /* Examples */
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01:35:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Codesine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44218&oldid=44043 * MDude * (+21) 
01:47:08 <FreeFull> hppavilion[1]: Balanced ternary logic
01:47:22 <FreeFull> With reversible gates
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01:54:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Microscript]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44219&oldid=44170 * SuperJedi224 * (+22) 
02:00:15 <MDude> Balanced ternary or modal. Or modal balanced ternary.
02:00:38 <MDude> Three by three grid of logical values.
02:05:33 <oren_> language in which programs are written as non-constructive proofs of the existence of a program to do X
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02:08:42 <MDude> An itneractive programming language where you don't say what the program should do specifically, but instead just tell it when it's doing something wrong.
02:09:15 <MDude> And not to do specific thigns in specific conditions.
02:11:04 <MDude> Like "don't write to this area of memory when you're outside of this subroutine".
02:11:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44220&oldid=44144 * SuperJedi224 * (+7) 
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02:26:55 <oren_> ᾧᾨᾩᾪᾫᾬᾭᾮᾯᾰᾱᾲᾳᾴᾶᾷᾸᾹᾺ
02:30:56 <oren_> also: scissors! ✁✂✃✄
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02:47:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Malbolge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44221&oldid=43428 * 195.191.162.160 * (+112) /* External resources */  Added link to Malbolge interpreter online
02:53:45 <MDude> Huh, Pandorabots changed it's site.
02:53:47 <MDude> *its
02:55:20 <MDude> Wait no the original is still at http://www.pandorabots.com/botmaster/en/home
03:00:06 <Sgeo_> I've certainly played with it as a kid, but people use this thing for production?
03:00:10 <Sgeo_> I always thought it was a toy
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03:04:41 <MDude> For production of what?
03:05:31 -!- yiyus has joined.
03:05:35 <MDude> I don't see how being a toy changes my expectation of not having to link my account with it to yahoo or whatever.
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03:06:50 <MDude> What do you tihnk of AIML, fungot?
03:06:50 <fungot> MDude: you make an excellent point. given its apparent fnord, apart from " don't get caught" or " demonstrate fnord in hebrew." such allegations are unfounded and slanderous. they did not have a porn career and did not state what caused his death, he took up boxing under the fnord section), but we really should use the proper deletion procedures as explained in the lead of the article, i didn't do that in your writing and editi
03:07:41 <MDude> Quite the proffesional opinion, thank you.
03:07:55 <hppavilion[1]> MDude: What's the new site for PandoraBots?
03:07:58 <hppavilion[1]> It looks interesting
03:08:33 <MDude> There's http://www.pandorabots.com which I got linked to from http://www.alicebot.org/aiml.html
03:08:42 <MDude> Neither even mentions the other.
03:09:57 <MDude> I was thinking I would take another try at making a chatbot that acts as an adventure game dungeon master.
03:22:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nopfunge]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44222 * 69.165.212.148 * (+5098) Added page
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03:25:46 <hppavilion[1]> I'm making a mathematics engine for mathemeticians and students
03:25:52 <hppavilion[1]> FOSS of course
03:25:58 <hppavilion[1]> Should I support surreal numbers?
03:26:00 <hppavilion[1]> I'll go with yes
03:26:06 <hppavilion[1]> Complex surreals!
03:26:11 <MDude> Don't see why not.
03:26:42 <MDude> I'm not entirely sure what surreals represent?
03:27:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nopfunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44223&oldid=44222 * 69.165.212.148 * (+109) A few cosmetic edits
03:28:15 -!- augur has joined.
03:29:55 <MDude> Oh,t hey can be represented in ASCII.
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03:32:38 <MDude> Complex surreals sound good for a mathematical engine.
03:32:53 <hppavilion[1]> For surreal numbers I'm using w and e for infinity and infinitesimal 
03:33:21 <hppavilion[1]> Instead of ω and ε
03:33:34 <hppavilion[1]> Though {L|R} form will also be available
03:34:02 <hppavilion[1]> It's going to be advised in my engine that you use names >3 characters long for variables, because if you use R it will collide with all real numbers, etc.
03:34:32 <MDude> Well you can't wait around for students to actually type out an infinitely long {L|R} definition of w and e.
03:35:01 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
03:35:05 <MDude> It'd almost take forever.
03:35:09 <hppavilion[1]> Dual numbers will be available too
03:35:48 <hppavilion[1]> Well ... notation will be available
03:36:00 <hppavilion[1]> Though the pattern recognition component will be hard
03:36:16 <hppavilion[1]> I can't just do 1, 2, 3... = N
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03:36:37 <pikhq> The duals are definitely an awesome feature to have.
03:36:41 <hppavilion[1]> Because what about 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8...
03:36:43 <hppavilion[1]> Yep
03:36:53 <hppavilion[1]> DUAL SURREAL QUATERNIONS
03:37:05 <hppavilion[1]> Better than dual mini uzies
03:37:21 <pikhq> (and means you can do automatic differentiation!)
03:37:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nopfunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44224&oldid=44223 * 69.165.212.148 * (+151) Some more cosmetic edits
03:37:49 * hppavilion[1] doesn't understand differentiation!
03:37:54 * hppavilion[1] is still in high school!
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03:38:12 <hppavilion[1]> But what should the symbol for the nilpotent be?
03:38:29 <hppavilion[1]> It can't be ε because typing
03:38:44 <hppavilion[1]> Also, because ε is the infinitesi- oooooooh
03:38:48 <shachaf> I was surprised to discover that "is dual to" isn't a symmetric relationship.
03:39:02 <hppavilion[1]> ε**2=0, doesn't it?
03:39:04 <pikhq> f(a + b \varepsilon) = f(a) + b f'(a) \varepsilon
03:39:07 <pikhq> It's a great property.
03:39:36 <hppavilion[1]> (in this context, ε is the infinitesimal)
03:39:45 <hppavilion[1]> EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE NOW
03:39:50 <hppavilion[1]> I HAVE BEEN ENIGHTENED
03:39:53 <hppavilion[1]> ET CETERA
03:40:30 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, ε**2 /does/ equal zero, right?
03:40:37 <hppavilion[1]> Or is ε**2 still ε?
03:41:42 <shachaf> Better than explicit dual numbers is this thing where you don't have any numbers d such that d^2 = 0, but you do have a set D = {x | x <- R, x^2 = 0} and you universally quantify over D.
03:42:07 <hppavilion[1]> Huh/
03:42:15 <hppavilion[1]> Let me try to remember how set notation works
03:42:31 <hppavilion[1]> So that's equivalent to the pseudopythonic...
03:42:32 <shachaf> I think http://math.andrej.com/2008/08/13/intuitionistic-mathematics-for-physics/ might be the thing I'm talking about.
03:42:48 <pikhq> shachaf: Buh, buh, but D = {}
03:42:55 <hppavilion[1]> set(*[x for x in AllRealNumbers if x**2==0]), correct
03:42:58 <hppavilion[1]> ?
03:43:00 <shachaf> pikhq: D contains 0, at leat.
03:43:23 <pikhq> shachaf: Ah, duh, of course it does.
03:43:35 <shachaf> But the thing is that it might contain other things.
03:43:46 <hppavilion[1]> So is the infinitesimal a nilpotent or not?
03:44:12 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: I would say it is *analogous to* the nilpotent.
03:44:18 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
03:44:25 <pikhq> That's the closest I'd get without some heavy proofing.
03:44:29 <shachaf> There are all sorts of infinitesimals.
03:44:37 <hppavilion[1]> So the surreal numbers include the dual numbers?
03:45:54 <hppavilion[1]> This isn't going to be a mathematical engine so much as a convoluted blob of everything I know about math or can find out about math molded into one, monolithic structure
03:46:14 <hppavilion[1]> For example, surreal quaternion matrices will be a thing.
03:46:31 <hppavilion[1]> Which, I suppose, they technically are
03:47:01 <pikhq> Not well studied, but that sounds like a genuinely trivial thing to construct at least.
03:47:44 <mauris> "where you don't have any numbers d such that d^2 = 0" -- what about d=0?
03:47:45 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: They will support Kleene Algebra
03:48:09 <hppavilion[1]> mauris: 0**2=i
03:48:24 <shachaf> mauris: You can't explicitly name any nonzero numbers d such that d^2 = 0.
03:48:37 <shachaf> There are some articles about it that I'm thinking of that I can't find right now.
03:48:47 <pikhq> "Nonzero" is an important property there.
03:48:49 <shachaf> But anyway you gotta do it in a topos or something.
03:49:24 <hppavilion[1]> Should I include the Notta Numbers?
03:49:24 <shachaf> Well, the thing about it is that as long as you can prove your thing works with *all* d with that property, you can divide by d.
03:49:31 <hppavilion[1]> xD
03:49:32 <shachaf> Even if the only d you ever actually deal with is 0.
03:49:35 <shachaf> Or something like that?
03:50:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nopfunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44225&oldid=44224 * 69.165.212.148 * (+358) Some more tidying up
03:50:25 <hppavilion[1]> Seriously
03:50:27 <hppavilion[1]> the Notta Numbers
03:50:50 <hppavilion[1]> ζ=1/0
03:50:56 <hppavilion[1]> Where ζ is the Notta Constant
03:51:07 <hppavilion[1]> xD
03:51:18 <hppavilion[1]> I am genuinely surprised that is not a thing
03:52:29 <hppavilion[1]> Notta Sums are of the form a+bζ
04:01:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nopfunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44226&oldid=44225 * 69.165.212.148 * (+27) A little more editing
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04:02:39 <madbr> ok this time I've created a monster :3
04:03:34 <madbr> It's befunge, except the program on the right side of ; is repeated an infinite number of copies
04:03:55 <madbr> (horizontally)
04:04:09 <madbr> and everything below = is repeated an infinite number of copies (vertically)
04:04:49 <madbr> oh, and it has no operations except for ^ v < > and space
04:04:56 <madbr> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Nopfunge
04:05:57 <madbr> also it is turing complete :D
04:16:32 <hppavilion[1]> I'm back! Since I left, I've been writing a program to calculate that hpoids are of the form...
04:16:33 <hppavilion[1]> a+bi+cω+dε+eζ+fωi+gεi+hiζ+iεω+jωζ+kεζ+lεωi+mωiζ+nεiζ+oεωζ+pεωiζ
04:17:42 <hppavilion[1]> madbr: We noticed you editing it
04:17:56 <madbr> oh... right :o
04:17:57 <madbr> LD
04:17:58 <madbr> :D
04:18:30 <hppavilion[1]> Are you impressed by the new kind of number I made up?
04:19:04 <hppavilion[1]> Shit
04:19:08 <hppavilion[1]> It probably messed up with i
04:19:15 <madbr> hmm, I don't really get what they are for
04:19:29 <hppavilion[1]> It's basically a generalization of complex surreal numbers
04:19:31 <hppavilion[1]> It includes:
04:19:48 <hppavilion[1]> - The real numbers (any constant)
04:19:57 <hppavilion[1]> - The imaginaries (anything with i)
04:20:10 <hppavilion[1]> - The infinites (anything with gamma)
04:20:25 <hppavilion[1]> - The infinitesimals (anything with epsilon)
04:20:32 <hppavilion[1]> - The Notta Numbers (anything with zeta)
04:21:06 <hppavilion[1]> Also, the dual numbers, which use the nilpotent/infinitesimal times a real number added to a real number
04:21:29 <madbr> o
04:22:10 <hppavilion[1]> Curious about the Notta Numbers?
04:22:18 <madbr> yeah I'm not familiar with surreal and etc
04:22:33 <madbr> and notta which doesn't seem to return anything on the goog
04:22:55 <hppavilion[1]> The surreal numbers are a set of number generalized to include infinities and infinitesimals
04:23:08 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surreal_number
04:23:14 <hppavilion[1]> That page has a nice diagram on it for you
04:23:22 <madbr> maybe you could add in quaternions too
04:23:28 <hppavilion[1]> Complex you hopefully understand
04:23:29 <hppavilion[1]> NO
04:23:42 <hppavilion[1]> And Notta Numbers are a thing I made up
04:23:51 <hppavilion[1]> Read it out loud
04:24:03 <hppavilion[1]> (the o makes the ah sound)
04:24:26 <hppavilion[1]> The Notta constant, ζ, is equal to 1/0
04:24:48 <hppavilion[1]> A notta number is a real number times the notta constant, xζ, and is equal to x/0
04:25:00 <hppavilion[1]> 0ζ is equal to All Real Numbers
04:25:27 <hppavilion[1]> A Notta Sum is analagous to complex numbers, a+bζ
04:25:32 <hppavilion[1]> In mathspeak:
04:25:37 <hppavilion[1]> ζ=1/0
04:25:43 <hppavilion[1]> aζ=a/0
04:25:51 <hppavilion[1]> 0ζ=R
04:26:21 <hppavilion[1]> And Notta Sums can't be represented any better than just the formula a+bζ in mathspeak
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04:34:54 <madbr> it's gonna take some time to understand surreals
04:35:23 <madbr> unlike complex numbers it's not really something with an application in my field
04:35:42 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
04:35:55 <hppavilion[1]> I don't think it really _has_ an application in _any_ field
04:36:00 <hppavilion[1]> Except topology...
04:36:04 <hppavilion[1]> Weirdos...
04:36:10 <madbr> oh :3
04:37:27 <hppavilion[1]> Should I write a python library to represent the Uber Numbers?
04:38:48 <hppavilion[1]> I think I will
04:39:34 <hppavilion[1]> PRESSING QUESTION 1: Are the Infinities and Infinitesimals their own axis, like the Imaginaries, or a generalization of the Reals?
04:39:43 <hppavilion[1]> I really don't know
04:39:56 <hppavilion[1]> Probably a new axis, but I'm not 100% sure
04:40:28 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I'm bringing in you. Your sage advice may just be useful in this situation
04:40:40 <madbr> infinitesimals I consider are evil
04:41:07 <hppavilion[1]> ω*ε==1, correct?
04:41:12 <shachaf> My advice is being more concise.
04:41:25 <madbr> simply because on x86 if you have a calculation that gives infinitesimals it slows to a crawl because some idiot thought handling underflows in an interrupt was a good idea
04:41:40 <hppavilion[1]> Ouch
04:41:47 <hppavilion[1]> What, do you write compilers or something?
04:41:55 <madbr> sound processing
04:42:24 <hppavilion[1]>  Ah
04:42:27 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
04:42:31 <hppavilion[1]>  Ah
04:42:32 <hppavilion[1]>   Ah
04:42:36 <hppavilion[1]>    Ah
04:42:39 <madbr> stuff like  mem += (input - mem) * param;
04:42:44 <madbr> happens often
04:42:46 <hppavilion[1]> Sorry, couldn't resist
04:42:46 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
04:42:59 <madbr> if input is zero, mem falls exponentially
04:43:19 <hppavilion[1]> Careful, don't reveal corporate secrets ;)
04:43:19 <madbr> eventually it gives out very small but nonzero numbers
04:43:31 <hppavilion[1]> Very small but nonzero?
04:43:50 <madbr> under 2 ^ -127
04:44:24 <hppavilion[1]> Pfft
04:44:27 <hppavilion[1]> That's nothing
04:44:27 <madbr> this is when the cpu starts generating so called "denormal" numbers
04:44:33 <madbr> ans slows to a crawl
04:44:37 <hppavilion[1]> When I say infinitesimal, I'm talking 1/∞
04:44:57 <madbr> it would be nothing if it didn't take 100x more cpu
04:45:26 <madbr> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denormal_number
04:46:48 <madbr> computations involving floating point infinity or NAN are also horrible
04:47:21 <madbr> I understand that those were introduced for engineers but their performance is so poor that they're unusable
04:48:27 <hppavilion[1]> So I still don't know whether to represent infinity and infinitesimal on their own axis or as an extension of the real axis
04:49:01 <madbr> I'm not sure of what they even are tbh
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04:49:09 <hppavilion[1]> Their own doesn't sound right because then abs(x) where x is an uber with a value for infinity will be finite
04:50:43 <oren_> there should be a function giving the non-infinitesimal part of x
04:50:54 <hppavilion[1]> But extension doesn't sound right either because of a+bω+cε+dεω
04:51:03 <oren_> and a function giving thr infinite part of x
04:51:08 <hppavilion[1]> Which couldn't be represented property
04:51:44 <oren_> dεω = d
04:52:01 <hppavilion[1]> Oh right xD
04:53:48 <oren_> however dε² ≠ dε
04:54:26 <hppavilion[1]> Huh
04:54:33 <oren_> hence there is infinitesimal, and infintesimesimal, etc.
04:54:34 <madbr> so you'd need a whole array
04:54:53 <hppavilion[1]> madbr: I'm using python, so I'll either uses a class or a map (in a class) xD
04:54:56 <madbr> for epsilon, epsilon^2, epsilon^3, epsilon^4 etc
04:55:03 <madbr> ?
04:55:33 <oren_> You should read about the formalization of calculus on the Hyperreals
04:55:44 <shachaf> Hyperreals are scow.
04:55:52 <oren_> which is an alternative to the use of limits
04:55:54 <shachaf> That other thing I talked about is where it's at.
04:55:59 <hppavilion[1]> oren_: So should infinity be on a different axis or an extension of the reals? If it's an extension, the sum of a finite number and a non-finite number won't work unless I do sometheing weird
04:56:19 <shachaf> You use hyperreals, and then you take the real part of your hyperreal ratio anyway.
04:56:20 <oren_> it is a different axis
04:56:29 <shachaf> So what have you gained over limits? Like, nothing, man.
04:56:43 <shachaf> Synthetic differential geometry, or smooth infinitesimal analysis, or whatever it is, is where it's at.
04:56:59 <oren_> shachaf: you've gained the ability to talk like Leibniz
04:57:02 <oren_> fwiw
04:57:19 <shachaf> How does Leibniz talk?
04:57:29 <oren_> he uses infinitesimals
04:57:33 <oren_> dy/dx
04:58:20 <hppavilion[1]> oren_: And if I do the separate axis, abs(3+4ω)=5
04:58:25 <hppavilion[1]> And that doesn't seem right
04:58:32 <hppavilion[1]> It seems like it should be 3+4ω
04:58:49 <oren_> abs doesn't collapse all the axes
04:59:18 <oren_> you need to heve different functions to collapse different axes. for example st()
04:59:33 <madbr> ironically, function smoothness seems to be related to turing completeness
05:00:09 <madbr> something like turing complete -> function is recursive -> function is non smooth
05:00:13 <hppavilion[1]> oren_: It does for complex numbers...
05:00:26 <oren_> st() is defines such that st(a + bε + cε²) = a
05:00:52 <hppavilion[1]> You've lost me
05:00:56 <oren_> hppavilion[1]: right but not for hyperreals or in this case i guess hypercomplexes
05:01:04 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
05:01:17 <oren_> hppavilion[1]: st() gives the non-infinitesimal part
05:01:34 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, what's ²? Is that... superscript epsilon?
05:01:43 <hppavilion[1]> I'm going to need help with this xD
05:01:54 <oren_> no, it is superscript 2
05:02:12 <oren_> my point is, all the epsilon parts of st(x) are removed
05:02:25 <hppavilion[1]> Ah?
05:03:13 <hppavilion[1]> OK
05:03:19 <oren_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreal_number
05:03:27 <hppavilion[1]> I'm not doing hyperreals
05:03:30 <hppavilion[1]> Or am I?
05:03:41 <oren_> you are
05:03:47 <hppavilion[1]> Weird
05:03:57 <oren_> you are doing hypercomplexes
05:04:12 <hppavilion[1]> Interesting
05:04:26 <hppavilion[1]> Even if it's the superreals instead of the complexes?
05:05:13 <hppavilion[1]> Well
05:05:27 <hppavilion[1]> I'm now writing the most mathematically strange python library ever
05:07:00 <hppavilion[1]> Bitwise functions are going to be a pain
05:07:12 <hppavilion[1]> How the hell does that even work?
05:07:26 <hppavilion[1]> Is bitwise complex numbers a thing?
05:07:30 <hppavilion[1]> If so, how does _that_ work?
05:09:21 <hppavilion[1]> I should probably exclude the Notta numbers because that's just made up bullshit
05:30:11 <madbr> the question isn't "are they bullshit", the question is more like "are they coherent"
05:30:58 <Sgeo_> Notta numbers?
05:33:52 <MDude> Well, bitwise complex numbers would work like any other bitwise operation on a rotation value.
05:36:19 <MDude> Notta numbers are descibed further up.
05:36:49 <MDude> [23:50] <hppavilion[1]> the Notta Numbers
05:36:49 <MDude> [23:50] <hppavilion[1]> ζ=1/0
05:36:49 <MDude> [23:50] <hppavilion[1]> Where ζ is the Notta Constant
05:36:49 <MDude> [23:51] <hppavilion[1]> xD
05:36:49 <MDude> [23:51] <hppavilion[1]> I am genuinely surprised that is not a thing
05:36:49 <MDude> [23:52] <hppavilion[1]> Notta Sums are of the form a+bζ
05:37:39 <MDude> I pesonally prefer the idea of the number circle more, but won't condem other systems.
05:39:53 <hppavilion[1]> number circle?
05:40:32 <MDude> A circle of infinite radius is a line, so the reverse also hold true.
05:41:09 <MDude> When graphing numbers, each axis is a line, and thus a circle of infinite radius.
05:41:11 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
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05:41:37 <MDude> So if 0 is at 0 degrees on that circle, 1 is at 90 degrees.
05:41:48 <hppavilion[1]> Interesting
05:41:49 <Sgeo_> MDude, and inf=-inf?
05:41:59 <MDude> Yes
05:42:19 <Sgeo_> 1/0 * -1/-1 = -1/0
05:42:37 <MDude> 1/x would converge at the opposite side of the circle at 0.
05:42:37 <Sgeo_> 1/0 * 1 = -1/0
05:43:02 <MDude> With the 2d graph being an infinite torus.
05:43:45 <Sgeo_> And where does ati, defined such that |ati| = -1, fit into this?
05:44:00 <Sgeo_> (I really attempted that at one point)
05:44:18 <MDude> I haven't ehard of ai?
05:44:26 <Sgeo_> I made it up when I was young
05:45:11 <Sgeo_> @ is probably a good enough abbreviation
05:45:17 <Sgeo_> or @i, not sure which
05:45:31 <Sgeo_> Or maybe ai
05:45:32 <MDude> It sounds interesting, but I'm not sure how to visualise it well.
05:46:24 <MDude> Wouild |-ati| also equal -1 or is it trickier than that?
05:46:44 <Sgeo_> I don't remember
05:47:07 <Sgeo_> Does |a||b| = |ab| generally hold without ati?
05:47:31 <Sgeo_> I think I struggled more with addition than multiplication. This was a long time ago though
05:48:00 <MDude> I think it would?
05:48:38 <MDude> Since sign is basically treated separately from other aspects of multiplying.
05:49:07 <MDude> It's just a matter of wether an odd or even number of the number being multiplied are negative.
05:49:09 <Sgeo_> If |a| + |b| >= |a + b|, then |a| - 1 >= |a + @|
05:51:20 <hppavilion[1]> Does anyone here want to help me write a story reminiscent of Flatland based on http://xkcd.com/839/
05:51:45 <hppavilion[1]> ?
05:51:47 <Sgeo_> |@| + |-@| = -1 + -1 = -2; |@ + -@| <= -2?
05:51:52 <Sgeo_> !!
05:51:53 <EgoBot> How exciting!
05:53:16 <hppavilion[1]> Ooooh
05:53:24 <hppavilion[1]> @ is now my favorite number :)
05:53:27 <Sgeo_> MDude, help?
05:53:44 <hppavilion[1]> No one?
05:53:49 <hppavilion[1]> http://xkcd.com/839/ people. http://xkcd.com/839/.
05:53:58 <Sgeo_> We could say that that above rule is bad or that |-@| isn't -1, I think
05:54:26 <hppavilion[1]> |-@| is most certainly 1
05:55:10 <Sgeo_> That means giving up a nice multiplication rule though, I feel intuitively that the addition one was more questionable
05:55:13 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo_: I decided to check if you made it up
05:55:26 <hppavilion[1]> I DDGed "|x|=-1 !wa"
05:55:34 <hppavilion[1]> Wolfram Alpha gave me this:
05:55:41 <hppavilion[1]> "Alternative form: False"
05:56:03 <Sgeo_> lol
05:56:20 <hppavilion[1]> So no one wants to help me write an xkcd 839 full story? :,(
05:56:27 <MDude> I am off to the sleep world.
05:56:33 <MDude> It's nearly 2AM.
05:56:35 <Sgeo_> hppavilion[1], that xkcd reminded me of b
05:56:40 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream.
05:56:44 <hppavilion[1]> Of what?
05:57:18 <Sgeo_> B
05:57:26 <Sgeo_> B nomic
05:57:27 <hppavilion[1]> Not sure what "b" or "B" is 
05:57:29 <hppavilion[1]> But OK
05:57:58 <Sgeo_> There was a grid once, and objects place around the grid, including a valuable one far away where it would take a lot of time and resources to reach
05:58:16 <Sgeo_> Except none of that happened because nothing had happened for years
05:58:28 <Sgeo_> We only thought that that stuff happened
05:58:50 <MDream> 10/10 art film concept
05:59:38 <hppavilion[1]> Ooh
05:59:44 <hppavilion[1]> Nomic looks like a cool game
06:07:49 -!- bender| has joined.
06:08:17 <hppavilion[1]> Hi, bender|!
06:08:30 <hppavilion[1]> I'm making a story based on xkcd 839!
06:09:52 <hppavilion[1]> Would you like to help?
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06:12:27 <hppavilion[1]> bender|
06:12:32 <hppavilion[1]> You on?
06:12:58 <Sgeo_> |@||@| = |@@|?
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06:17:13 <Sgeo_> |x| = @?
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06:19:39 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo_: What's @**2?
06:19:43 <hppavilion[1]> @!?
06:20:03 <Sgeo_> I don't think @! needs to be well defined
06:20:07 <hppavilion[1]> It does
06:20:09 <hppavilion[1]> Wait
06:20:12 <hppavilion[1]> It's @
06:20:13 <hppavilion[1]> Duh
06:20:30 * Sgeo_ would be cautious about saying duh about any of this
06:20:40 <hppavilion[1]> It is
06:20:46 <hppavilion[1]> @=1@
06:20:49 <hppavilion[1]> 1!=1
06:21:23 <Sgeo_> 5=1*5; 1!=1
06:22:38 <hppavilion[1]> Right, right
06:22:40 <hppavilion[1]> HOWEVER
06:22:45 <hppavilion[1]> @ is the Fake Unit
06:23:32 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm calling them the fake numbers because fake is the opposite of real, and |x| when x (- R is always positive, and |@x| when x (- r is always negative)
06:23:41 <hppavilion[1]> xD
06:24:15 <hppavilion[1]> It's by analogy to i!=i
06:24:17 <hppavilion[1]> I assume
06:24:47 <hppavilion[1]> Wait
06:24:48 <Sgeo_> https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=i+factorial
06:24:55 <hppavilion[1]> No it isn't
06:24:56 <hppavilion[1]> xD
06:25:01 <hppavilion[1]> WTF is going on there!?
06:25:21 <Sgeo_> 0.49801566811835604271369111746219809195296296758765009289264... -
06:25:21 <Sgeo_> 0.15494982830181068512495513048388660519587965207932493026588... i
06:25:40 <Sgeo_> I'm going to guess gamma or zeta function shenanigan
06:25:41 <Sgeo_> s
06:26:40 <hppavilion[1]> Zeta function?
06:26:45 <hppavilion[1]> Never heard of that one...
06:27:00 <hppavilion[1]> Heard of the Gamma Function and the Pi Function, of course
06:27:30 <hppavilion[1]> So what kinds of units are there?
06:27:36 <hppavilion[1]> 1: The Unit
06:27:37 <Sgeo_> Gamma function. I didn't rememeber whether extension of factorial was gamma or zeta. Apparently a zeta function does exist.
06:27:43 <hppavilion[1]> -1: The inverse unit
06:28:03 <hppavilion[1]> Gamma: The INFINIE unit
06:28:15 <hppavilion[1]> Epsilon: The infinitessimal unit
06:29:03 <hppavilion[1]> zeta: The Notta Constant/unit
06:29:09 <hppavilion[1]> i: The imaginary unit
06:29:14 <hppavilion[1]> @: the fake unit
06:29:34 <hppavilion[1]> 6 axes
06:29:53 <hppavilion[1]> Take THAT, klein!
06:30:25 <Sgeo_> .......
06:30:58 <Sgeo_> @ is the time unit. Doesn't distance in relativity work something like x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - t^2? Almost like t is a negative distance?
06:31:45 <Sgeo_> Define || such that |a+b@| = sqrt(a^2 - b^2). What happens?
06:31:49 <hppavilion[1]> Interesting...
06:31:54 <Sgeo_> Wait, that doesn't work if we allow imaginaries
06:32:22 <hppavilion[1]> I wonder
06:32:26 <Sgeo_> But it could still be interesting to play with
06:32:48 <Sgeo_> |1+@| = 0
06:32:51 <hppavilion[1]> How many units do we need such that any algebraic expression is satisfiable WITHOUT just a "It doesn't work" unit?
06:32:56 <hppavilion[1]> Infinity
06:32:59 <hppavilion[1]> I'm calling it
06:34:01 <Sgeo_> I... think this shows that @ can be defined to have consistent rules, since that is a sensible function, and for reals that function matches absolute value
06:34:44 <hppavilion[1]> Whelp
06:34:48 <hppavilion[1]> Congratulations
06:34:55 <hppavilion[1]> You've invented a new branch of mathematics!
06:35:03 <hppavilion[1]> Now you need to choose a greek letter for @!
06:35:23 <hppavilion[1]> Or a normal letter
06:35:34 <Sgeo_> a with a dot over the tail
06:35:37 <hppavilion[1]> Or an astrological sign. That works too
06:35:48 <Sgeo_> Add it to unicode people
06:36:09 <hppavilion[1]> That's... evil.
06:37:06 <hppavilion[1]> bender|: Hellooo?
06:37:10 <Sgeo_> Wait my function's totally broken
06:37:17 <hppavilion[1]> How so?
06:37:55 <Sgeo_> |@| = sqrt(- 1^2) = i
06:38:14 <hppavilion[1]> Is it because it means @=-1?
06:38:48 <Sgeo_> sqrt actually naturally gives +- results
06:38:57 <Sgeo_> but the function is defined to ignore the negative
06:39:04 <hppavilion[1]> Of course
06:39:13 <hppavilion[1]> Wait
06:39:24 <hppavilion[1]> I thought |@| was defined to be -1
06:39:51 <hppavilion[1]> |x|=i is still defined to be False
06:39:51 <Sgeo_> It is, but sqrt(a^2 - b^2) doesn't work as a definition of |a+b@| if we want |@| to = -1
06:40:01 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
06:40:27 <hppavilion[1]> So it's just the @plex numbers that are messed up currently?
06:40:44 <hppavilion[1]> The c@mplex numbers?
06:40:48 <Sgeo_> Well we could just define |a+b@| = |a| - |b| if we want to do things the obvious way
06:41:40 <Sgeo_> THe obvious thing to do from there is put some @ into a and b and see what breaks
06:42:09 <Sgeo_> |@ + @| = |@| - |@| = 0
06:42:15 <Sgeo_> Which is, uh
06:42:53 <Sgeo_> Is it... reasonable to exclude @-numbers from a and b? I can't tell, but I'm guessing not
06:44:02 <Sgeo_> Wait I'm dumb |@ + @| = |@| - 1 = -1 - 1 = -2
06:44:52 <hppavilion[1]> What's @**2 though?
06:45:15 <Sgeo_> |@@| = -|@| = 1
06:45:22 <Sgeo_> Seems reasonable to me
06:46:00 <hppavilion[1]> OK
06:46:14 <hppavilion[1]> I'm making a document listing all the units
06:46:52 <Sgeo_> I think unlike the prior function this one might still be breakable, because it's basically defined recursively
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06:48:19 <hppavilion[1]> I still want to write a story about xkcd 839...
06:50:55 <hppavilion[1]> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByRvNdqqy3GPMWRTU3R6ZXJyZm8&usp=sharing
06:52:31 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo_: We can document @ and other units there
06:54:31 <hppavilion[1]> |#|=i
06:55:29 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo_?
06:56:28 <Sgeo_> I don't think it's possible with the current definition, you can only get real numbers. Could try some other shenanigans to get imaginary, but right now want sleep
06:56:40 <hppavilion[1]> I know xD
06:56:41 <hppavilion[1]> OK
06:56:56 <hppavilion[1]> |$|=@
06:57:09 <hppavilion[1]> find sqrt($)
06:57:12 <hppavilion[1]> xD
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07:16:03 <hppavilion[1]> Hi, AnotherTest!
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09:30:11 <b_jonas> Is today's xkcd supposed to be a reference to that infamous D&D monster that looks like a rabbit on a tree stump? 
09:31:20 <ais523> I don't get today's xkcd at all
09:39:12 <ais523> oh, I like Nopfunge
09:39:50 <ais523> maybe I'll impl it later
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10:10:55 <oerjan_> @ping
10:10:55 <lambdabot> pong
10:11:41 <oerjan> @tell oren_ <oren_> oh right. x^x = 1 when x = 1,  and x^x is a smooth function.  <oren_> hence (1/x)^(1/x) approaches 1 as x -> +oo <-- your conclusion is right but your argument is wrong hth
10:11:41 <oerjan> ^ping
10:11:41 <oerjan> ^help
10:11:41 <oerjan> @ping
10:11:41 * oerjan thinks he's splat
10:11:41 <oerjan> !help
10:11:41 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
10:11:41 <zemhill> oerjan: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
10:11:41 <fungot> That Pong alone cannot stop!
10:11:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Changing server).
10:11:41 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
10:11:41 <lambdabot> pong
10:11:42 <EgoBot> ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
10:11:52 <oerjan_> hmph
10:12:00 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan.
10:12:56 <oerjan> nice to see all your messages twice...
10:20:25 <int-e> hmm.
10:20:30 <int-e> @botsnack
10:20:31 <lambdabot> :)
10:20:35 <int-e> > 1
10:20:36 <lambdabot>  1
10:21:01 <int-e> odd.
10:21:15 <oerjan> int-e: it was just my original server being lagged
10:21:31 <oerjan> i reconnected
10:21:57 <int-e> right, I didn't check the timestamps. thanks.
10:22:31 <oerjan> s/your/my/
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10:35:01 <oerjan> bood morningly
10:35:13 <oerjan> well, close to
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10:40:29 <oerjan> @tell oren_ Protip: logarithms
10:40:29 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
10:42:09 <oerjan> i've somehow got 3 log tabs open. although 2 are of the same date.
10:42:16 -!- FreeFull has joined.
10:42:36 <oerjan> (no, they're not redundant.)
10:44:44 <oerjan> @tell oren_ oh missed your correction. i still think that's circular, though.
10:44:44 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
10:46:15 <boily> bon matœrjan!
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10:51:41 <oerjan> sounds probable
10:52:48 <boily> sound reasoning.
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11:01:54 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> MWAHAHAHAHA I HAVE RUINED MILLIONS OF PAST TEXTS EVERYWHERE <-- /g doesn't actually make much of a difference there hth
11:01:54 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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12:01:50 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/toe
12:01:52 <HackEgo> hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1]
12:02:01 <oerjan> `? toe
12:02:02 <HackEgo> the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
12:02:09 <oerjan> `rm wisdom/toe
12:02:10 <HackEgo> No output.
12:02:16 <oerjan> `? the
12:02:17 <HackEgo> the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
12:05:18 <oerjan> `? b
12:05:19 <HackEgo> B is, in fact, a village in norway
12:05:49 <oerjan> `learn B is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're even worse than the BBC and drop accented letters altogether.
12:05:51 <HackEgo> Learned 'b': B is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're even worse than the BBC and drop accented letters altogether.
12:06:00 <oerjan> `? Å
12:06:01 <HackEgo> ​Å _is_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters.
12:08:18 <oerjan> `learn B is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're even worse than the BBC and drop letters with things on top of them altogether.
12:08:20 <HackEgo> Learned 'b': B is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're even worse than the BBC and drop letters with things on top of them altogether.
12:08:57 <oerjan> hm wait
12:09:53 <oerjan> `learn B is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're even worse than the BBC and drop strange letters altogether.
12:09:55 <HackEgo> Learned 'b': B is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're even worse than the BBC and drop strange letters altogether.
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12:16:20 <oerjan> `learn Bø is not just one, but _two_ municipalities in Norway.  And not just three, but at least _four_ farms.  Ah ah ah!
12:16:23 <HackEgo> Learned 'bø': Bø is not just one, but _two_ municipalities in Norway.  And not just three, but at least _four_ farms.  Ah ah ah!
12:19:43 <fizzie> `? Ii
12:19:44 <HackEgo> Ii? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:19:55 <fizzie> `learn Ii is a muncipality in Finland, no matter what you do.
12:19:57 <HackEgo> Learned 'ii': Ii is a muncipality in Finland, no matter what you do.
12:19:57 <FreeFull> `? ¢
12:19:58 <HackEgo> ​¢? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:20:14 <FreeFull> Poland has a place called Hel
12:20:19 <fizzie> `run sed -i -e 's/munc/munic/' wisdom/ii
12:20:22 <HackEgo> No output.
12:20:50 <oerjan> Norway has a place called Hell hth
12:20:58 <fizzie> `learn_append ii Except for speaking Swedish.
12:21:00 <HackEgo> Learned 'ii': Ii is a municipality in Finland, no matter what you do. Except for speaking Swedish.
12:21:07 <fizzie> (It's "Ijo" in Swedish.)
12:21:37 <FreeFull> oerjan: Is it very bright there?
12:21:39 <oerjan> `learn Bø is not just one, but _two_ municipalities in Norway. And not just three, but at least _four_ farms. Ah ah ah ah ah!
12:21:41 <HackEgo> Learned 'bø': Bø is not just one, but _two_ municipalities in Norway. And not just three, but at least _four_ farms. Ah ah ah ah ah!
12:21:50 <fizzie> Their "you're entering Ii" road sign looks like a pause button: https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ii#/media/File:Roadsign_of_Ii_municipality_Finland.jpg
12:22:04 <oerjan> FreeFull: not that i know of
12:22:37 <FreeFull> There is a place in Austria called Fucking
12:22:46 <oerjan> i know.
12:22:59 <FreeFull> There is a place in Australia called Sydney
12:23:39 <FreeFull> oerjan: What about Oberfucking and Unterfucking?
12:24:48 <oerjan> i do not remember
12:25:10 <FreeFull> There are apparently at least four places called Å
12:25:17 <oerjan> yeah
12:25:26 <oerjan> tricky business
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12:25:45 <FreeFull> England has Shitterton
12:27:06 <FreeFull> "In 2010, the inhabitants banded together to purchase a 1.5-ton block of Purbeck Stone to place at the entrance to Shitterton, carved with the hamlet's name." That's one solution to having your sign stolen
12:27:20 <oerjan> `? y
12:27:22 <HackEgo> y? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:27:57 <oerjan> `learn Y is a commune in France. There's nothing funny about this.
12:28:00 <HackEgo> Learned 'y': Y is a commune in France. There's nothing funny about this.
12:28:17 <FreeFull> There is also a Y in Alaska
12:28:33 <oerjan> curses
12:29:46 <oerjan> `learn L is far too short to be a village in Wales.
12:29:47 <FreeFull> ncurses
12:29:49 <HackEgo> Learned 'l': L is far too short to be a village in Wales.
12:29:55 <oerjan> `culprits l
12:29:56 <HackEgo> No output.
12:30:00 <FreeFull> Canada has London
12:30:03 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/l
12:30:04 <HackEgo> oerjan
12:30:10 <oerjan> i know
12:30:11 <FreeFull> `culprits .
12:30:14 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan oerjan fizzie fizzie fizzie oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] oren_ hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] oren_ hppavilion[1] oren_ hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] Phantom__Hoover hppavilion[1] oerjan tswett tswett tswett oerjan tswett tswett tswett tswett oerjan b_jonas 
12:30:19 <FreeFull> Oops
12:30:33 <oerjan> that _might_ be incomplete hth
12:30:47 <FreeFull> `culprits /
12:30:48 <HackEgo> abort: / not under root
12:35:12 <fizzie> "root not under root", when read aloud.
12:35:52 <oerjan> `? wisdome
12:35:53 <HackEgo> The place where all of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type `wisdom
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12:36:10 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/The/The Wisdome is the/' wisdom/wisdome
12:36:12 <HackEgo> No output.
12:36:14 <oerjan> `? wisdome
12:36:15 <HackEgo> The Wisdome is the place where all of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type `wisdom
12:36:49 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/wisdome
12:36:51 <HackEgo> No output.
12:37:39 <oerjan> this is the kind of inattention to detail that leads to all software being crap hth
12:41:10 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Now I'm tempted to write a HackBot fanfic about the Wisdome <-- someone has even more too much free time than i do
12:43:01 <FreeFull> `` ln -s / root
12:43:04 <HackEgo> No output.
12:43:11 <FreeFull> `ls root
12:43:12 <HackEgo> bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr
12:43:18 <FreeFull> Well
12:43:22 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> and here I was thinking that int-e was oerjan's good twin. or at least the less evil one. <-- i'm just so evil i need two good twins hth
12:43:23 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
12:43:34 <FreeFull> Seems that message is just specific to culprits
12:43:36 <FreeFull> `ls /
12:43:36 <HackEgo> bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr
12:43:41 <FreeFull> `rm root
12:43:42 <HackEgo> No output.
12:43:54 <oerjan> FreeFull: i think it's a message from hg
12:44:02 <oerjan> `cat bin/culprits
12:44:03 <HackEgo> hg log --removed "$1" | grep summary: | awk '{print substr($2,2,length($2)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs
12:44:13 <oerjan> `` hg log /
12:44:14 <HackEgo> abort: / not under root
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12:54:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Loader]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44227&oldid=44212 * SuperJedi224 * (+1) 
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14:48:43 <Taneb> @ping
14:48:43 <lambdabot> pong
14:48:50 <Taneb> Hmm
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15:17:55 <Spiritualcreativ> who speak french ?
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15:36:40 <Jafet> `bonjour
15:36:41 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bonjour: not found
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15:37:13 <Jafet> `bienvenu
15:37:14 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bienvenu: not found
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15:41:57 <oerjan> `benvenu
15:41:57 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: benvenu: not found
15:42:03 <oerjan> hmph
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15:44:24 <oerjan> `` ls bin/*nv*
15:44:24 <HackEgo> bin/arienvenido \ bin/benvenuto \ bin/bienvenido
15:44:35 <oerjan> none of those look very french
15:45:02 <oerjan> `` grep -R venu wisdom
15:45:03 <HackEgo> wisdom/bienvenue:Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) \ Binary file wisdom/reflection matches
15:45:08 <oerjan> ah there it is
15:45:29 <oerjan> `? wisdom.fr
15:45:29 <HackEgo> wisdom.fr? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:45:43 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/{bienvenue,wisdom.fr}
15:45:45 <HackEgo> No output.
15:46:34 <oerjan> `welcome
15:46:35 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
15:47:07 <oerjan> argh
15:47:11 <oerjan> `? welcome.fr
15:47:12 <HackEgo> welcome.fr? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:47:36 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/{wisdom,welcome}.fr
15:47:38 <HackEgo> No output.
15:47:46 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/irc.dal.net/EFnet ou DALnet/' wisdom/welcome.fr
15:47:48 <HackEgo> No output.
15:47:52 <oerjan> `? welcome.fr
15:47:53 <HackEgo> Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur EFnet ou DALnet.)
15:48:01 <oerjan> `cat bin/welcome
15:48:01 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//;  s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }
15:48:20 <oerjan> `cat bin/bienvenido
15:48:20 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//;  s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome.es"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome.es"; }
15:49:17 <oerjan> `` cp bin/{bienvenido,bienvenue}; sed -i 's/\.es/.fr/g' bin/bienvenue
15:49:21 <HackEgo> No output.
15:49:33 <oerjan> `bienvenue Jafet 
15:49:34 <HackEgo> Jafet: Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur EFnet ou DALnet.)
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17:41:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hexagony]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44228 * Martin Büttner * (+11013) Created page with "'''Hexagony''' is a two-dimensional stack-based programming language developed by [[user:Martin Büttner]]. To the best of the author's knowledge it's the first ever 2D langua..."
17:41:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44229&oldid=44196 * Martin Büttner * (+15) /* H */
17:44:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Martin Büttner]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44230&oldid=43937 * Martin Büttner * (+387) add Hexagony and Marbelous
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18:11:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Hexagony]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44231 * Ais523 * (+595) related esolang
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18:53:44 <hppavilion[1]> bender|: Hi!
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20:54:55 <hppavilion[1]> Hello, IRC!
20:55:03 <hppavilion[1]> bender|: *Sigh*
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21:01:23 <hppavilion[1]> Wait.
21:01:41 <hppavilion[1]> ais523 is /legally allowed/ to leave the channel!?
21:01:43 <hppavilion[1]> Whoa!
21:02:42 <hppavilion[1]> I want to make a useful Thue derivative
21:04:41 <Taneb> Bad idea
21:06:08 <Phantom_Hoover> hppavilion[1], ais leaves quite often...
21:06:17 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: I was kidding
21:06:38 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Isn't that, with "So do it" appended, the Esolangs motto?
21:07:06 <Taneb> hppavilion[1]: no, I mean it's a boring, unesoteric idea
21:07:44 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Useful =/= nesoteric
21:08:04 <Phantom_Hoover> hppavilion[1], do you mean adding system stuff like file handling to it
21:08:08 <hppavilion[1]> s/nes/unes/
21:08:14 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: Exactly
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21:08:18 <hppavilion[1]> And cleaning up the grammar a bit
21:08:43 <hppavilion[1]> We need delimeters on strings, people.
21:08:57 <Phantom_Hoover> that could be interesting but you should try to make it really fit into the language
21:09:11 <hppavilion[1]> a::=~"Hello, World!"
21:09:11 <hppavilion[1]> ::=
21:09:11 <hppavilion[1]> a
21:09:33 <hppavilion[1]> And libraries, of course
21:09:36 <Phantom_Hoover> don't go the lazy way and make it a wrapper on the output or a couple of special patterns
21:09:49 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, what?
21:11:31 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: ?
21:11:38 <Phantom_Hoover> ah, how to describe it...
21:12:07 <Phantom_Hoover> like if you did your file i/o just by writing "open(whatever)" to stdout
21:13:06 <hppavilion[1]> I /was/ considering making CATFILE work like:
21:13:40 <hppavilion[1]> walrus
21:13:44 <hppavilion[1]> walrus
21:13:44 <hppavilion[1]> walrus
21:13:46 <hppavilion[1]> OK
21:13:52 <hppavilion[1]> Got a newline on my clipboard
21:14:44 <hppavilion[1]> a ::= ~"Hello, world!"
21:14:44 <hppavilion[1]> ::=
21:14:44 <hppavilion[1]> readf("a.txt") #a.txt contains the letter "a"
21:14:59 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: Is that not esoteric enough?
21:16:38 <hppavilion[1]> Perhaps the ^ operator that behaves like :::?
21:17:04 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't really mind that at first glance
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21:17:05 <hppavilion[1]> a ::= ~^"Hello.txt"
21:17:05 <hppavilion[1]> ::=
21:17:06 <hppavilion[1]> a
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21:17:17 <hppavilion[1]> I like that one
21:17:33 <Phantom_Hoover> function notation is a bit alien to thue though so the second one is probably better
21:17:41 <hppavilion[1]> Ype
21:17:44 <hppavilion[1]> *Yep
21:17:50 <hppavilion[1]> Let's go with the second one
21:18:00 <hppavilion[1]> What should I call this language?
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21:19:05 <hppavilion[1]> Tue? (pronounced like "two"?) ( Phantom_Hoover )
21:19:16 <Taneb> Tube
21:19:23 <Taneb> Pronounced two-B
21:19:48 <hppavilion[1]> Thube?
21:21:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Thube]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44232 * Hppavilion1 * (+224) Created Page
21:22:11 <hppavilion[1]> I'm calling it Thube for now
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21:22:59 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom__Hoover: Internet crash?
21:23:08 <Phantom__Hoover> evidently
21:23:40 <hppavilion[1]> Sux
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21:23:52 <hppavilion[1]> I've named the language Thube for now and added it to a wiki page
21:23:57 <hppavilion[1]> Now, to add real content to that page
21:26:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Thube]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44233&oldid=44232 * Hppavilion1 * (+106) Goals
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21:28:25 <Phantom__Hoover> hppavilion[1], i think you should try to address the criticisms of thue here while you're at it: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Thue#Criticisms
21:29:28 <Phantom__Hoover> haha wow it's impossible* to write a cat program in thue
21:30:04 <Phantom__Hoover> *you can do it by transforming every character to its output but that's awful
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21:35:54 <myname> i do think thue would benefit if you could add new rules at runtime
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21:37:26 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover: that is the first time I've ever seen an IRC message with an actual, planned in advance, footnote
21:38:05 <Phantom__Hoover> i started doing that the other day
21:38:12 <Phantom__Hoover> it's great, way easier than brackets
21:38:17 <Taneb> It is a good practise. Keep it up.
21:38:26 <Phantom__Hoover> practice, taneb
21:38:27 <Phantom__Hoover> practice
21:38:36 <Taneb> I forget which is the noun and which is the verb
21:39:17 <Phantom__Hoover> nouns have a c, verbs have an s
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21:39:33 <Taneb> On the subject of things I forget sometimes, I'm going to go to sleep now
21:39:35 <Taneb> Goodnight
21:39:44 <Phantom__Hoover> dammit man i was going to explain the mnemonic
21:39:46 <myname> english is so ugly
21:40:07 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover: @tell me it or something
21:40:47 <Phantom__Hoover> using @tell would be degrading to my craft
21:42:28 <ais523> Phantom__Hoover: most cat variants (e.g. output in reverse) are probably impossible to do reliably in Thue because you can mimic whatever strings it uses for internal data storage
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21:42:33 <myname> why the hell would you actually do that?
21:43:00 <myname> i mean, practise/practice
21:43:05 <myname> what the hell
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21:45:48 <Phantom__Hoover> myname, say 'advice', then 'advise'
21:46:05 <Phantom__Hoover> i'm sure practice and practise had the same distinction but drifted together
21:47:34 <myname> still ugly
21:48:03 <Phantom__Hoover> i like when you read old verse and you can see the aftermath of the great vowel shift because half the rhymes no longer work
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22:08:47 <hppavilion[1]> bender|: bender| bender| bender| bender|
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22:27:15 <hppavilion[1]> *sigh*
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22:55:50 <oren_> hallooooooooo
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23:00:22 <oren_> hippavilion1!
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23:39:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Monkeys]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44234&oldid=40966 * David.werecat * (+110) Updated interpreter to new open source C interpreter
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23:51:12 <myname> monkeys looks like a nica language
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