00:01:24 -!- boily has joined. 00:08:48 \oren\: I think it has to be both computer-readable AND human (non-advanced-programmer) readable <-- my prejudices say this is a contradiction unless you want to _severely_ shrink the customer base. 00:09:22 Not quite 00:09:24 although perhaps magic players are already all nerdy enough to reach that level 00:09:28 IMP is fairly easy to read 00:09:32 Not very good though 00:10:17 That is why I suggested something a bit different! 00:11:05 hezzo38ppaviliœrjan[1]! 00:11:15 @massages-loud 00:11:15 quintopia said 3h 59m 49s ago: aubergine+unconditional fork. (first argument=target of first process, second=target of second?) 00:11:58 bevingly 00:26:57 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FLEMISH CHICKEN). 00:31:05 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:32:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:43:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:44:57 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:49:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:51:45 -!- shikhin has left. 00:54:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:11:51 hppavilion[1]: I'd definitely call {1,2} + 3 unconventional notation. 01:12:05 It is, but isn't 3 = {3}? 01:12:08 It's not the sort of thing you use if you want to be understood without having to explain yourself. 01:12:11 No. 01:12:15 3 is a number, {3} is a set. 01:12:16 Huh 01:12:20 Could've sworn it was 01:12:21 Wait 01:12:23 But it is 01:12:39 {2}+{2}={4} 01:12:43 I think that's right 01:13:44 I think I'd still consider that non-standard notation. 01:14:09 If I'm reading a math paper, and it says "For all sets X and Y of integers, X + Y is ...", I'm going to be confused. 01:14:35 I'd figure it *probably* means exactly what you've been using it to mean. But I'd be unsure. 01:31:17 <\oren\> {1, 3} + {4, 5} = {5, 7, 6, 8} 01:31:23 <\oren\> is taht right? 01:32:31 \oren\: Technically, yes. But I would order the set properly for OCD purposes. 01:37:46 <\oren\> then X + Y is simply the image set of the cartesian product of X and Y 01:38:37 <\oren\> (well, some would dispute the use of the word "simply" there, but YMMV) 01:39:00 I have thought of thing like Ajsone esolang but with RDF instead of JSON. (It has also been done with XML) 01:41:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:23:42 -!- blurelIse has joined. 02:34:21 -!- blurelIse has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D). 02:34:36 -!- blurelIse has joined. 02:38:41 i get the impression im not gonna find the philosophers stone here 02:41:05 I don't think the "philosopher's stone" exists, so probably you will not find it on here. 02:41:25 touche' 02:41:50 * blurelIse recalibrates 02:42:24 i get the impresion I won't be able to find someone here who can explain why putrification is such a neccessary part of transmutation 02:42:52 I don't know any alchemy, sorry. I doubt most people on here know much about it. 02:43:59 `welcome blurelIse 02:44:00 blurelIse: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 02:44:25 oic 02:44:29 blurelIse: i get the impression you may be right 02:44:37 thanks for the welcome either way 02:44:59 granted im still interested in coding an esoteric language 02:45:10 like the concept(s) 02:45:25 I also don't know any esolang called "philosophers stone" 02:45:57 great, then maybe i'll make one :) 02:46:29 sounds way more fun than coding an AI that moves crates 02:46:50 but do you know the Stoned Philosophers problem? 02:47:16 hmm.. is that the one about the guy who knew the well water would drive everyone crazy? 02:48:50 (if not then no) 02:49:14 I have not heard of "Stoned Philosophers" problem, so I don't know what it is 02:55:22 shachaf: was that just a cheeky way of asking if i was blazed off my gord, or an actual problem? 03:03:02 the silverfish are peeking starting to wander around while wondering why I still have the lights on. 03:03:22 woops that sentance got away from me 03:05:07 Unsqueezingly. 03:05:52 When you're trying to get ketchup out of a plastic bottle, the typical way to do so is by squeezing the bottle. 03:06:23 But I've heard that they make "pourable ketchup" bottles. 03:06:41 I'm not sure what's different about them, but presumably with those bottles, it's possible to get the ketchup out unsqueezingly. 03:07:19 i saw an article on a special new plastic that has a full flip surface 03:07:35 not even glue sticks to the inside of the bottle, it jsut slides off and out 03:07:59 Yeah, it's neat stuff. 03:11:39 -!- JesseH has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:26:24 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:29:13 Hi 03:29:30 hi 03:51:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:01:46 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:02:19 <\oren\> A nuclear reactor can transmute one element into another, but it usually is a lighter element thatn you started with 04:04:25 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:11:29 I think I read somewhere that it is very expensive to convert one lead atom into one gold atom, and it is not generally worth it. 04:12:17 well sure if youre just pouring a bunch of money into equipment and tech to make it happen 04:12:44 but the knowledge of natural law in doing the process with only tools at hand 04:12:50 that knowledge is worth every minute 04:13:29 Yes, knowing how it can be done is worth it, I agree. 04:13:43 But it isn't generally worth it to actually do such thing especially for large quantities. 04:14:31 yeah considering you'd probably have better luck panning in a river getting quantifiable amounts, isn't worth it for the gold 04:14:48 just to say you did it tho <3 04:15:25 Yes. 04:15:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 04:15:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:16:31 Try to answer the question: Copper, Silver, Gold, and then what comes next? A few people are answer different (and my answer seems to be the uncommon one) although see what you would say too, and then we can make the poll? 04:17:33 Patashu: Do you have .NSF of Famitracker chiptunes? And, what expansion chip use (if any)? (As far as I know, Famitracker can use only up to one expansion chip per song, but I know that ppMCK is capable of using multiple at once) 04:18:04 the obvious choice would be platinum 04:18:21 depending on context 04:19:04 That is many people's answer, but my answer was roentgenium 04:19:27 (Note that the question gives no context as that is how it is supposed to work.) 04:20:06 profane explanation would be that its ascending in value, or worth in reward 04:20:34 i assume your answer is provisional to having a periodic table on hand 04:21:35 " Patashu: Do you have .NSF of Famitracker chiptunes?" Yes, lots. "And, what expansion chip use (if any)?" I personally use VRC6 and MMC5 and rarely N163, but I have ftms/nsfs from other people for everything else. "(As far as I know, Famitracker can use only up to one expansion chip per song, but I know that ppMCK is capable of using multiple at once)" Actually, you can use all six 04:21:36 expansion chips in a song in vanilla Famitracker, what you CAN'T do is create that file using only in-program means, you have to hex edit to set all the flags (or use a branch of Famitracker such as 0CC-Famitracker) 04:22:05 zzo38: As an example, I always provide nsfs of my songs I upload to soundcloud.com/patashu . If you need an nsf with a specific other expansion chip, let me know and I'll dig 04:22:44 I don't need ones with specific expansion chips (I can easily find or make them myself if I need them); I only wanted to know what you had 04:22:58 Got it 04:25:09 You can see the .NSFs I made too if you want to, although I use ppMCK. I have not provided renders. 04:28:00 We have a lot of Deadfish implementations, but none in TECO yet, nor in QUACKVM, or various other stuff 04:35:43 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:35:43 I'm trying to think how to prove that there exist at least two groups. 04:35:47 This is a toughie. 04:36:34 old orange and apples metaphor not working? 04:36:36 heh 04:36:54 I dunno, I think I'm going to temporarily give up on this and go for something easier. 04:37:02 Namely: proving that there exist at least two sets. 04:37:38 Can you prove it by exhibiting instances? 04:37:38 -!- FreeFull has joined. 04:39:49 I also do not see a implementation of Deadfish in LLVM 04:40:15 Only if I can prove that the instances are different. 04:40:24 I could, say, prove that {} is not {x}. 04:40:35 tswett: Well, yes, you must prove that of course. 04:40:58 What I really mean, though, is that there exist at least two sets, up to bijection. 04:41:08 So this means I must prove that there is no bijection between {} and {x}. 04:41:28 <\oren\> hmm platinum has a current market value slightly lower than gold 04:43:04 \oren\: O, I don't keep track of what are current market value of platinum and gold and so on. I just know that in Dungeons&Dragons game 3.5 edition, a platinum coin is worth ten times as much as a gold coin 04:43:34 They're eleven times as heavy hth. 04:44:06 I think it's kind of cute how in the United States, just like in D&D, there are "copper", "silver", and "gold" coins, each worth ten times as much as the last. 04:44:25 (Namely, the penny, the dime, and the dollar.) 04:44:27 <\oren\> current platinum price per troy oz is 981 USD, gold is 1139 USD 04:44:42 <\oren\> dollar coins only exist in Canada not US hth 04:44:53 Yes, I have used such analogy to describe to some people, the penny, dime, and loonie (in Canadian money, that is!) in term of Dungeons&Dragons game 04:46:02 \oren\: crap, that means the US Mint has been scamming us! 04:46:39 And to think I once handed them twenty dollars in exchange for twenty of their so-called "dollar coins"! 04:46:52 Man. I swear, heads will roll. 04:46:54 <\oren\> wait wat 04:47:45 they have dollar coins too 04:47:52 but they arent really gold 04:48:01 and pennies arent actually copper 04:48:08 and nickel isnt nickel 04:48:17 And dimes aren't really made of dime. I mean, of silver. 04:48:20 actually theres probably more nickel in us pennies than copper 04:48:34 quraters havent been real silver int he US since 1971 04:49:16 i used to buy precious metals professionally (fun fact) 04:49:51 the platinum thing, i mentioned reward, as in after an album goes gold, it goes platinum 04:50:51 another fun fact: napoleon gave all his dinner guests gold utensils, but his were not. Can you guess what his were made of? 04:51:32 <\oren\> tswett: Canadian dimes were made of silver until the 1920s 04:51:40 Were they aluminum? 04:51:51 you get 5 internetz 04:52:21 aluminum used to be far more valuable than gold, and rarer too 04:52:24 <\oren\> or, hmm, 1960's 04:52:33 then we learned how to make it 04:53:35 if you sent that homeless guy you always see with his huge shopping cart full of cans back to napoleon times, he'd be a king 04:54:16 <\oren\> Well you can still get 1 oz silver, gold, and platinum coins 04:56:08 <\oren\> there is a Canadian silver 5-dollar coin which in 1 oz of 99.99% silver 04:59:53 <\oren\> wait what. they have a palladium coin too. wtf is palladium good for? 05:01:20 craeting a monetary value out of an imaginary idea, then selling it to the establishments for 1.5 dollars per dollar to give to thier people 05:09:22 What features does IRC need? 05:10:35 I think IRC has a good set of features, although some servers do not implement some, or add their own too 05:12:35 Fair enough 05:14:23 automatic translation between languages 05:31:06 blurelIse: Realistic features xD 05:32:04 aye, they said the same thing to the wright brothers 05:41:20 blurelIse: The Wright Brothers were trying to make a thing not fall as fast as normal. You're suggesting I take two incompatible ways of representing information and convert between them freely. Not just two, but thousands. 05:43:00 Should I make a LISP-like language? 05:43:09 Possibly one with R-like features? 05:43:13 Perhaps? 05:43:26 Should you paint an albatross? 05:43:53 tswett: I'm not a very good painter and have no interest in improving in that area 05:43:56 Should I go to bed now? 05:44:00 Should good night, everyone? 05:44:14 Wait 05:44:18 Are you actually going to bed? 05:44:23 I'm confus 05:44:37 i see all these language packs install with software, always wonder why they cant just cross reference all fo them using a deep search algorhithm and make auto tranlates happen 05:45:01 kinda like that "translate this page" button in chrome 05:45:11 blurelIse: Because whatever you just talked about is unreliable 05:45:28 why cant i just click "translate this" and get a semi close translation in irc 05:45:47 it doesnt have to be totally accurate, just knowing an idea of what someone is saying helps if youre a human 05:45:51 Someone could make a client that does 05:45:53 Also, "translate this page" requires a connection to google translate. This is fine in browsers, where you generally need internet to be viewing a page. But in an offline program... not so much 05:46:09 And using the google translate API, before you ask, costs money 05:46:36 well yeah a bot could do all that 05:47:01 It could, but it would cost a bunch of money 05:47:03 <\oren\> it would be nice if someone wrote a simple word-for-word translation tool 05:47:03 but itd be a nice feature in chats/social place 05:47:25 \oren\: That's impossible. Your grasp of linguistics seems to be lacking. 05:47:45 How do you translate Hebrew et? 05:47:46 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: a lookup table is impossibe 05:47:49 <\oren\> ? 05:47:52 I'm under the impression it's like an ;s 05:47:53 's 05:48:00 blurelIse: It would be, but then again, you're using this to communicate with someone who lives in practically another world. 05:48:03 yeah, alot of languages have context and tone involved 05:48:14 True, true 05:48:15 in chinese the same word for aunt is also donkey depending on the tone 05:48:35 I'm going to make some high-level sexpr-based language for fun 05:48:41 Basically my own lispy language 05:48:51 \oren\, how do you translate this word? http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/4933/meaning-of-et%D7%90%D7%AA-and-vet%D7%95%D6%B0%D7%90%D6%B5%D6%A5%D7%AA-in-genesis-11 05:49:21 however, an inaacurate, semi simple word for word, based on "alphabetical order" language packs would be sufficient 05:49:57 or just grab those english-spanish dictionaries 05:50:04 and get for alot of languages 05:50:04 blurelIse: But word-for-word is impossible. And how would you translate German to English? In german, it's impossible to list all the words 05:50:21 <\oren\> All I'm saying is, the tool would read in そのビルは高い and wirte out [that][building][about][tall] 05:50:30 im sure theres a german to english dictionary that would suffice 05:51:00 blurelIse: But that would be inelegant! In german, you can just /make up/ words! 05:51:04 <\oren\> literlly each word would be looked up and swapped for the closest word in target language tih no reordering 05:51:21 all logistics aside, just wanted to stress it is realistic, would jsut require an immense effort 05:51:35 Also in german, you can /split words in fucking half/ 05:51:35 i wouldnt care about inelegance 05:51:55 How do you handle that without an uber-complex special case? 05:52:11 \oren\, and do you ignore untranslatable words? 05:52:20 Hebrew's et is just a grammatical marker or something 05:52:32 So you can probably ignore it if you throw out grammar, I _think_ 05:52:33 if someone said to me in german that they liked long walks on teh beach, and a translator told me, long walks liked sausages to beach on, it would be far more useful than not understanding a single word 05:52:38 <\oren\> either ignore or leave them in place 05:54:05 <\oren\> for languages which have the same word order roughly, this would work very well in practical cases 05:55:18 <\oren\> E.g. Je ne t'aime pas -> I not you like 05:56:51 <\oren\> either way, an imperfect translation is better than having no translation available offline 05:57:38 <\oren\> I bet you could store a table of the top 10000 words in the top 10 languages in basically no space. 05:58:08 <\oren\> e.g. maybe the distrbiution would be 1 megabyte? 05:58:55 <\oren\> on that order anyway 05:59:14 How can I implement phase of moon and astrological sun sign (which includes equinoxes and solstices) in TeX? I already have a lot of other stuff including Easter calculation, leap year calculation, Discordian calendar, etc, but not that yet! 06:00:11 <\oren\> maybe use kepler's laws plus a table of anomalies? 06:00:29 <\oren\> (since the orbit drift slightly over time) 06:01:24 <\oren\> you can have a set of orbital parameters for each decade or maybe century 06:03:19 Hopefully a precision of quarter-hours should be sufficient, if it is not necessary to print the exact times 06:08:09 Just port the J2000 database into TeX hth 06:13:16 What should I add to my lispy language? 06:13:19 OO definitely 06:19:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:20:33 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:27:59 I don't know the way to do this ephemeris stuff in TeX (because I have not decide what seem best way), but I have done a lot of other stuff with TeX including parsing algebraic chess notation and Forsyth-Edwards notation and making chess diagram from them, and also a ASCII PBM parser, and POSTNET barcode generator. But, the other thing I do not have is TeX program to generate QR codes 06:29:22 Although maybe a postprocessor could be used to generate QR codes, possibly 06:33:40 OK, the AWK code of Deadfish is not quite the shortest one; the shortest code is actually APLBAONWSJAS. 06:38:23 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:42:49 Ther 06:42:50 e 06:43:00 I'm implementing LISP with data structures 06:51:16 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 07:10:57 OK 07:14:06 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:20:56 Google Translate's "instant" mode (where it OCRs text from the live camera feed, translates it, and replaces it in the original image) works offline, with a language pack taking (IIRC) just a single-digit amount of megabytes. 07:21:25 It's (mostly) word-for-word, although a lot smarter than a single dictionary. 07:22:32 (The Translate mobile app also lets you download packs for "proper" offline translation, but those are in the order of hundreds of megs.) 07:32:34 hizzie 07:34:49 Hoochaf. 08:00:37 -!- atehwa has joined. 08:07:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:24:19 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:40:04 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 09:27:18 -!- x10A94 has joined. 09:41:53 -!- sc00fy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:49:33 -!- TieSoul has joined. 09:54:50 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:56:33 -!- TieSoul has joined. 10:09:25 -!- bender| has joined. 10:09:25 -!- bender| has quit (Changing host). 10:09:25 -!- bender| has joined. 11:29:26 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:03:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:39:43 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:06:22 -!- sc00fy has joined. 13:17:51 -!- boily has joined. 13:24:16 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:33:18 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:39:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:05:12 -!- sc00fy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:18:53 -!- Wright has joined. 14:22:48 -!- gamemanj has joined. 14:36:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:37:27 <\oren\> his523 14:50:20 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:51:06 -!- bender| has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:16:37 `unidecode 15:16:38 [U+2009 THIN SPACE] [U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE] 15:28:06 `wisdom 15:28:07 sth/"sth" is short for "something that hibernates". 15:28:23 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:29:46 that's probably wrong 15:29:57 stuff that helps? 15:31:01 or, as opposed to happy to help, sad to help? 15:34:43 -!- JesseH has joined. 15:36:03 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:39:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:46:52 hellolsner. nothing is wrong in the Wisdom. 15:47:40 `? wisdom 15:47:41 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 15:48:37 `? ørjan 15:48:38 Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers. 15:48:54 the lie is that he publishes papers hth 15:48:59 he used to, though 15:49:06 k 15:49:11 tdh 15:49:22 the past is a time, so that counts as sometime 15:49:47 ah but "publishes" is present tense, checkmate olsner 15:50:20 *shrug* it was present tense at the time 15:51:12 well no one said wisdom isn't _sometimes_ factually accurate. 15:53:39 * boily loves the smell of Wisdom in the morning 15:54:04 `? fart 15:54:05 fart? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:54:17 boily: wisdom is not a smell, and it is not morning 15:54:27 another fun fact: napoleon gave all his dinner guests gold utensils, but his were not. Can you guess what his were made of? <-- this is eerily close to, but somehow disturbingly off from wikipedia's version 15:54:29 `? what fart 15:54:29 what fart? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:55:04 olsner: fwiw, roses aren't a smell either, and people still talk about the smell of roses. 15:55:42 oerjan: golden? 15:56:01 ais523: you're still maintaining ayacc, you haven't disowned it, right? 15:56:10 b_jonas: no, i didn't react to that part 15:56:13 a quick google suggests aluminum 15:56:16 olsner: there remains five minutes of morning. 15:56:41 b_jonas: not disowned, just I'm not working on it right now 15:56:46 I'll come back to it some time later 15:56:51 it's just that it wasn't _the_ napoleon, and he wasn't the _only_ one who got aluminium. 15:56:53 if someone else wants to take over maintenance meanwhile, I wouldn't object 15:56:54 olsner: hmm, was that back when aluminum was more expensive than gold, or later when it was manufanctured for cheap with electrolysis? 15:57:01 boily: oh, you saved some morning for later? that's good planning 15:57:21 not that napoleon III wasn't a cool guy by himself. 15:58:00 @tell shachaf you probably don't want to know more about rnz, but if you do, see https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Rnz 15:58:00 Consider it noted. 15:58:03 ais523: ok, and no, I won't take over maintenance, but I might try it out some time 15:58:05 oh, regarding "sometimes", http://starslip.chainsawsuit.com/starslip/night-shift-crisis/ seems relevant. 15:58:30 (coincidence) 16:03:15 Should you paint an albatross? <-- no. it'll just get annoyed and possibly attack you hth 16:03:43 and then you might accidentally kill it and get a curse. 16:05:49 albatrosses cause curses? 16:06:09 i thought that was common knowledge. 16:06:19 killing them, that is. 16:06:30 I have a crazy idea. Suppose in a D&D-like universe, a very rich sorcerer wants to occasionally travel very fast between his two lairs, but hates teleportation. Maybe he wants to break the speed record for a challenge. 16:07:14 b_jonas: now i'm reminded of niven's puppeteers 16:07:34 Could he build a long road made of alternating cells of four different materials, then shapechange cyclically to four different exotic monsters, each of which can reside in only one (or at most two) of the four materials, and get shunted to the next cell each time. 16:08:31 I'm thinking the four materials could be: lava (or permanent magical fire), solid stone or earth, water (or water with acid), and a very narrow passage of air in a wall of force (or of iron or leveledgium); 16:09:06 and the four forms are xorn (in stone), fire elemental (in lava), shark (in water, or acid-breathing shark in acid water), and eg. lizard (in the narrow passage). 16:09:29 Each time he transforms, he'd get instantly shunted to the closest space the new form can reside, which would be the next cell. 16:09:47 The narrow tunnel would need to be barred on the two ends by the same wall of force so that the lava and water can't get in of course. 16:10:08 Or perhaps by small pieces of stone or something. 16:10:18 sounds eminently practical hth 16:10:50 The shunting would deal lots of damage to the sorcerer, and though it could perhaps be reduced somewhat, it probably can't be prevented completely. 16:11:34 oerjan: yes, he'd have to be VERY rich to build such a road, because the cells have to be thicker than they are long, and the cells have to be long so he can traverse fast, because he travels about one cell per round or something not much than that. 16:11:39 b_jonas: there's a known trick using turn order where you get a bunch of commoners to stand in a line, and delay their turns so that they all happen in sequence along the line 16:11:57 then you get them to hand an object to each other in turn, and get it from one end to the other in just six seconds 16:12:11 commoner SIMD? 16:12:14 ais523: um, doesn't picking up the object take an action? 16:12:15 oh 16:12:16 I see 16:12:19 they each take an action in sequence 16:12:23 you can reduce the number of commoners required by getting them to jog (i.e. single-move) as one action, then hand the object over as the other 16:12:30 that way you can space them 30 feet apart 16:12:41 nice idea 16:12:45 it isn't mine 16:12:48 this is the D&D version of a bucket brigade 16:12:51 I think the common name is the "commoner railgun" 16:13:15 but what would be the point? 16:13:45 -!- x1365C has joined. 16:13:46 gamemanj: this is repeatable each turn, so it could carry a lot of material on a line quickly 16:13:59 -!- x10A94 has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:14:03 -!- x1365C has changed nick to x10A94. 16:14:03 about one carrying capacity of the weakest commoner per round or so 16:14:27 it doesn't even kill them, unlike how the damage kills the sorcerer 16:14:33 also it gets an object from one place to another at arbitrarily high speeds 16:14:46 because it completes the movement in six seconds regardless of the distance travelled 16:15:14 Hmm, could the sorcerer get temporary invincibility, take all the damage, then quickly get healed to above zero from any amount of damage? If so, would this require very evil acts, like virgin sacrifices? 16:15:19 what next, a commoner-based esoteric language? 16:15:31 gamemanj: we call those cellular automata 16:15:46 that would require more complex rules for the commoners... 16:16:04 gamemanj: are you sure you're on the right channel if you ask questions like “what would be the point”? 16:16:09 I suppose :) 16:16:55 Cellular automata commoners... could get quite gory for some CAs (and patterns) 16:17:52 b_jonas: if you're allowed to rely on typos in the manual, you can heal someone to 1hp from arbitrary HP values (including negative) via holding their head underwater for two rounds, then casting cure minor wounds on the third 16:17:58 (assuming they don't hold their breath) 16:19:50 ais523: ah, right 16:20:52 the manual says "sets hp to 0" rather than "reduces hp to 0" 16:21:16 and the water is conveniently in the channel, though he'd need some way to get healed up from unconsciousness afterwards, without a risk that his trusted lieutenant doesn't “forget” to heal him 16:22:05 oh wait 16:22:07 he doesn't need that 16:22:25 if he's temporarily indestructible to survive the damage anyway 16:22:38 he can just wait as a human in water to get 0 hp, then quaff a potion 16:22:49 brilliant 16:23:00 though there's still the question of how he gets temporary invincibility 16:23:17 and keep it while polymorphed 16:24:41 I think you can combine a spell and feat to get immunity to HP death 16:24:44 Plus the question of building the road. 16:24:46 until the spell expires 16:24:56 ais523: does that work even shapechanged? 16:25:05 -!- JesseH has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:25:06 no idea 16:25:14 even if it's the same person who casts both shapechange and that spell on himself? 16:26:04 I'm worried because Szabó Magda: ''Tündér Lala'' features fairies that are specifically immortal, but are mortal if they magically shapechange to an ordinary animal such as a dog. 16:26:54 Plus, even in nethack, many boss monsters lose most of their special properties while polymorphed. 16:27:48 ais523: wait, is that a spell a wizard can cast? or divine-only? 16:28:18 again, I don't know 16:28:21 I can't remember the details 16:28:37 one of my players pulled it off against me in a game where the players were encouraged to break the rules 16:28:46 err, not break 16:28:47 exploit 16:29:04 -!- JesseH has joined. 16:31:19 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:32:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 16:34:57 I'm also worried about polymorph because such a thing could require you to be in the form of some particular unusual monster, such as a plant or something. 16:35:36 Oh, and you probably want to get immune to dying from both nonpositive HP and from suffering too much damage in a turn. 16:36:16 oh right, massive damage rule 16:36:25 I think most groups pretend that one doesn't exist 16:36:28 On the other hand, this whole thing is probably more difficult to pull off than a combo that just lets you increase your normal run or flight or swim speed without a cap. 16:36:49 ais523: or that it exists only for damage from particular sources, such as critical hits from an attack. 16:37:02 Or damage from the same one commander. 16:37:13 b_jonas: that's a M:tG rule, not a D&D rule 16:37:21 Yes, I know. 16:38:28 I said a D&D-like world. It could be a roguelike or something, though the narrow tunnel thing might not work in a roguelike that insists on every creature fitting the same size of square. 16:41:25 Reminds me of the Esolang „Befunge“ 16:42:44 -!- Melvar` has joined. 16:43:32 -!- sc00fy has joined. 16:45:15 APic: have you ever heard of our Lord fungot? 16:45:40 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:45:47 (where's fungot when you need him?) 16:46:16 he's swimming with the fnords 16:47:35 ... 16:47:59 boily: Probably not yet 16:49:13 -!- Melvar`` has joined. 16:51:05 -!- Melvar` has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:51:13 APic: meanwhile, you're either Albanian, Bulgarian, Czech, Estonian, German, Icelandic, Macedonian, Romanian, Serbian, Slovak or Slovene. 16:51:20 probably German, population-wise. 16:51:25 German 16:51:34 Statistics ♥ 16:53:08 is it generally sunny or rainy where you live? 17:03:07 boily: how do you come to this conclusion? 17:06:30 myname: quotation marks :D 17:06:41 ah 17:07:04 i would never type them, though 17:08:11 «»“”‘’ are readily available on the layout I use, but I can't type the low marks. 17:09:04 i am using a software keyboard most of the time 17:09:27 «»¢“”nµæßðđŋħĸł@łe¶ŧ←↓→øþ<>©‘’NºÆ§ÐªŊĦ&ŁΩŁE®Ŧ¥↑ıØÞ 17:09:37 oh, /that/'s where ↑ went 17:14:23 -!- Melvar`` has changed nick to Melvar. 17:14:27 `unidecode 17:14:28 [U+00AD SOFT HYPHEN] 17:14:56 -!- idris-bot has joined. 17:16:53 boily: I assume you have a box of invisible characters that need sorting? 17:17:53 <\oren\> In the japanese ﾊﾝｶｸ mode, 17:18:56 <\oren\> ` ﾄ ' ﾊ ‘ ﾄ ’ ﾆﾅﾙ 17:18:57 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 17:22:04 <\oren\> I wonder what happens in the canadian keyboard mode 17:24:19 ais523: apparently I can type soft hyphens. 17:24:22 <\oren\> Ok that is weird. ? -> É, 'a -> à, |\ -> <>, [a -> â 17:24:36 boily: what's the keybind? 17:24:55 \oren\: how come is it weird? it's the layout I use. 17:25:16 ais523: ISO level 5 + Shift + /. 17:25:21 <\oren\> It's weird because it doesn't match the keytop labels 17:25:34 `unidecode 17:25:34 No output. 17:25:38 <\oren\> I don't even know how it got installed 17:25:49 boily: apparently I don't have the same keyboard layout as you 17:26:00 either that or AltGr does something different from ISO level 5 17:26:10 AltGr is level 3 I think? 17:27:28 hmm, could be 17:27:52 \oren\: there are two layouts in use in Québec: Canadien Français and Canadien Multilingue. both have éÉ instead of /?, but they differ mainly on the dead keys and pre-composed accented letters. 17:28:31 <\oren\> I have US and canadian multilunual 17:28:45 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:29:02 <\oren\> And then I have 5 different Japanese modes 17:29:11 boily: what? I type “„”‘’»« too 17:29:41 and …– as well 17:29:51 I added them to my keyboard layout because I need them often 17:30:47 I should also add à and the other non-obscure French accented characters too, probably to capslock-control-letters if my keyboard can handle capslock-control-shift-letter together. 17:30:51 <\oren\> In hankaku katakana mode､ I can type english by starting with a cpaital letter 17:31:14 I know some keyboards can't handle capslock-shift-backtick but mine is better. 17:31:23 b_jonas: I remapped Caps to Escape. much more confortable for vim sessions. 17:31:43 you need a vim pedal 17:31:53 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:32:03 <\oren\> I have lots of symbols available thru my IME ,､，”“゛″〝＂〟 17:32:18 https://github.com/alevchuk/vim-clutch 17:32:21 \oren\: Let'sせえ。。。Nope.Itをrks、利ghtウンチLityペ亜S波C絵。NotQ浮いて失せ付ぇ、意F酔う湾Tmyおぴにおん。 17:32:22 i so like the idea 17:33:07 <\oren\> You need to be in hankaku katakana mode I think. 17:33:14 \oren\: I like entering きごう, then mashing the space bar to get all kinds of funky Unicode tidbits. 17:34:01 myname: bwah ah ah! 17:34:36 boily: it's awesome 17:34:36 -!- gamemanj has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:34:57 plus there's some other characters I should add too 17:35:28 -!- gamemanj has joined. 17:36:43 ⦃⟦⦇⟪«»⟫⦈⟧⦄ 17:37:02 I forget why I have bindings for these 17:37:05 <\oren\> Ohhh characters that aren't in my fon!?!?! 17:37:19 go add them! 17:37:21 <\oren\> `unicode ⦃⟦⦇ 17:37:22 U+2983 LEFT WHITE CURLY BRACKET \ UTF-8: e2 a6 83 UTF-16BE: 2983 Decimal: ⦃ \ ⦃ \ Category: Ps (Punctuation, Open) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored \ \ U+27E6 MATHEMATICAL LEFT WHITE SQUARE BRACKET \ UTF-8: e2 9f a6 UTF-16BE: 27e6 Decimal: ⟦ \ ⟦ \ Category: Ps (Punctuation, Open) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 17:37:39 <\oren\> `unicode ⦃⦇ 17:37:40 U+2983 LEFT WHITE CURLY BRACKET \ UTF-8: e2 a6 83 UTF-16BE: 2983 Decimal: ⦃ \ ⦃ \ Category: Ps (Punctuation, Open) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored \ \ U+2987 Z NOTATION LEFT IMAGE BRACKET \ UTF-8: e2 a6 87 UTF-16BE: 2987 Decimal: ⦇ \ ⦇ \ Category: Ps (Punctuation, Open) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Charac 17:38:03 <\oren\> doing that 17:38:58 <\oren\> Eventually I plan to move my prject off fontstruct so I can add Chinese characters. (Fontstruct doesn't support Chinese) 17:38:58 probably àèìòù to capslock-control-aeiou, âêîôû to capslock-control-áéíóú (that's easy to remember), plus äëïçœæßåø somewhere 17:39:22 and the uppercase versions of all but eszett to capslock-control-shift same letter 17:40:08 b_jonas: shouldn't it be easier to put ^, ¨ and ` on a dead key? 17:40:11 no, perhaps the circumfletted letters not on those places 17:40:14 boily: no! 17:40:18 no dead keys 17:40:23 I'm not doing necromancy 17:40:24 <\oren\> there is a capital eszett 17:40:43 \oren\: yes, but it's not something I need frequently. there's also a low-single-9 quotation mark 17:40:56 * boily waves his magical mapole around and try to zombify b_jonas' keyboard 17:41:05 <\oren\> it's in my font ẞ 17:41:06 and single > and < quotation marks 17:41:10 yet I don't have those in my mapping 17:43:33 <\oren\> why not have a shift key you can hold down, type "o and get ö 17:44:07 <\oren\> in other words a key that merges all the characters you type until you release it 17:44:34 \oren\: nope, that could trigger during normal typing, 17:44:42 and also is hard to type because " requires holding down shift 17:44:56 ö is Shift + ¨, release, then o. 17:44:58 <\oren\> well then use some other key 17:45:18 if I don't release a key before I press the next key, I want both of them to register. this isn't a calculator, it's a real computer keyboard where I want to type fast. 17:45:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: REVOLTING CHICKEN). 17:45:35 <\oren\> like maybe that stupid menu button windows keyboards have? 17:45:39 only the modifier keys should work otherwise 17:46:13 \oren\: those could work, but I'm using caps-lock as a fourth modifier anyway, and I don't want to add a fifth, at least not for typing (as opposed to eg. window manager shortcuts) 17:46:49 Plus I don't like those keys, because I like normal 101-key AT keyboards that don't have it, and want to be compatible with them. 17:50:23 <\oren\> ㊤ 17:50:41 <\oren\> what is that character for 17:51:30 \oren\: I believe it's for annotating ancient Chinese text for study by ancient Japanese to show the word order it would be read if it had Japanese grammar. 17:52:09 or backwards or something 17:52:33 \oren\: let me find a reference 17:53:31 \oren\: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furigana#Kunten 17:54:49 or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanbun 17:55:49 <\oren\> holy crap. those unicode guys... I don't even... 17:56:16 \oren\: that might be a different character though. they weren't circled, and somehow I don't think Japanese people would circle a kanji 17:56:20 /last chaf 17:56:28 so it might be for some different thing 17:56:52 \oren\: ㊤ _is_ a redirect to Kanbun in en.wikipedia though 17:57:19 oops 17:57:32 \oren\: see https://ja.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%86%96 17:58:11 \oren\: wiktionary documents a lot of obscure kanji 17:58:16 and similar symbols 18:03:39 <\oren\> https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%9B%B2%E3%81%BF%E6%96%87%E5%AD%97 18:07:02 <\oren\> Apparently circled letters are used for elements, and the kanji are used for bases and positions in baseball 18:07:42 \oren\: heheh 18:07:55 what kinds of "elements" 18:08:57 <\oren\> 〇ｃis apparently "cupper" 18:09:06 <\oren\> I think they mean copper 18:10:28 <\oren\> and ㊥ is midfielder or whatever 18:11:47 <\oren\> hm oh wait they use SQUARES for the baseball stuff 18:12:01 <\oren\> which requires the astral plane 18:16:11