< 1443658367 748051 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imback < 1443658432 492238 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Hmm, the kanji are showing up fine on my computer at home and the one at work < 1443658480 982104 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1443658582 236723 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn caching! < 1443658643 832489 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the cause of all this crap is that my.css is being cached < 1443658726 622668 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a way to solve this caching problems for good! < 1443659207 368940 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443659222 178846 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07English14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44564&oldid=44056 5* 0371.178.9.97 5* (+167) 10/* Compilers */ adding an example of computer programs that can compile English. < 1443659258 526344 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... I'll make a cgi script that can read a filename and some random numbers, and return just the file. Then I can change the random numbers to defeat caching < 1443659360 957898 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know how complex numbers are equal if their magnitudes match and their angles match modulo 2pi? If we take out the modulo 2pi part then every number has a single square root < 1443659429 576590 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we lose is the ability to add numbers with different angles < 1443659797 312318 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very substantial loss < 1443659859 370133 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: why do we lose that < 1443660028 568074 :GoToTell!~GotoTell@62-205-73-146.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1443660166 105649 :GoToTell!~GotoTell@62-205-73-146.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mroman_ http://mathworld.wolfram.com/UniformSumDistribution.html (7) (8) (9) < 1443660166 284289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1443660172 303111 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because multiplying just adds the angles, but I'm not sure how to combine them when I add two numbers, so i just leave them separate < 1443661513 116650 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443662290 62142 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443664830 656178 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear fungot in the sky. Please drive me away from temptation, namely binging on webcomics before going to sleep. < 1443664830 836898 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: to the room of a dwarven assassin who happens. that includes any " wizard formerly known as " eagle-eyed pete" before bozzok caught, we would like my mode of transit returned, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i n < 1443664844 395735 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, need to check if there were any oots updates lately... < 1443664966 476666 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one hth < 1443664980 289404 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1443664980 476322 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots* pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1443664986 95376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1443664989 206071 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that new? < 1443665001 557988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: what's with durkon < 1443665001 737174 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we need to get the hell, i rolled a 1 gp fee, we'll get you thinking like a rogue," as " par for my people, i would get the message would actually put us in mortal danger is infinitesimally low. < 1443665071 82749 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellochaf. there was only one. < 1443665134 707052 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll succumb to the siren calls of my mattress and be comatose for the next few hours, responsibly like the responsible adult that I am. or something like that to that generic effect. < 1443665140 42275 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: PANCREATIC CHICKEN < 1443667811 253720 :danofthedeep!~danofthed@c-50-128-162-167.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1443669025 308621 :GoToTell!~GotoTell@62-205-73-146.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1443671303 518756 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1443672102 236906 :MDude!~fyrc@c-73-175-58-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443672437 914915 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style c64 < 1443672438 93002 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) < 1443672474 987216 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1443672475 165264 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping def a thanks tmp2 8ball rreree rerere botsnack bf < 1443672565 321213 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^botsnack woot < 1443672565 538427 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh nom nom nom! < 1443672578 392310 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +>+>+ < 1443672753 916859 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the style get used for? < 1443672798 490484 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: irq < 1443672798 671902 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: stack requirements: 2 2 zero page addressing instructions of the programmer's reference guide at your local dealer, is used in the character shape that you need to test more than one machine language < 1443672818 112611 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: sys < 1443672818 292661 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: load"",1,1 ( looks for the target line number value written to tape buffer pointer to the end of each harmonic present is proportional to the screen is divided into two nybbles of each sprite has a keyboard buffer < 1443673986 220808 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Wordy14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44565&oldid=42292 5* 03Iamevn 5* (+680) 10BNFish thing added < 1443674828 448801 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1443675803 238177 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443676451 241096 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443676532 698243 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443677047 454198 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443677336 451531 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1443677839 596198 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-59-230.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1443678063 245156 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-59-230.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443678074 526268 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-59-230.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi NICK :J_Arcane < 1443678406 595993 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed that link posted by hppavilion[1] and i ended up here http://www.jayconrod.com/posts/35/parsing-keyvalue-pairs-in-bash < 1443678426 42988 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of the site looks cute, and they have a bash section, and it's pure crap < 1443678437 435227 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-59-230.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1443679173 150302 :MDude!~fyrc@c-73-175-58-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDream < 1443679533 762580 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: elite funge98 demos < 1443679533 978609 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: for best results, the basic rom, or modify program lines give each function name. < 1443679664 552345 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: put in some HTTP headers. there's like three different ones, and clients and proxies look at different sets < 1443679888 457342 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443680566 591668 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/badedgecases < 1443680626 902168 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1443680677 552069 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1443680870 460996 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1443681822 60565 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, Kiribati and Kiritimati (pronounced "Kiribas" and "Kirismas", naturally) are at UTC+14:00 < 1443682192 480578 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1443682511 512006 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1443683461 704328 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1443683590 966980 :^v!~^v@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1443683629 504639 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1443683672 598760 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell izabera *MWAHAHAHA* < 1443683672 817281 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1443683712 628408 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was even a guest comic < 1443684337 526871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor `echo `whoami` is on <-- you know it would be brilliant if that (well, corrected) actually gave the nick < 1443684337 742532 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1443684407 347141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not always fit lexically < 1443684493 815343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom/c* < 1443684495 750979 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/c \ wisdom/c# \ wisdom/c++ \ wisdom/cake \ wisdom/cakeprophet \ wisdom/california \ wisdom/can \ wisdom/canada \ wisdom/canary \ wisdom/caps lock \ wisdom/cat \ wisdom/catamorphism \ wisdom/categorical product \ wisdom/category \ wisdom/category-helpdesk \ wisdom/category theory \ wisdom/cello \ wisdom/certainly \ wisdom/certainty \ wisdom/c < 1443684516 50902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm forgot what it was < 1443684529 2452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /proc < 1443684529 908383 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 \ 10 \ 2 \ 281 \ 285 \ 286 \ 287 \ 288 \ 289 \ 290 \ 291 \ 292 \ 3 \ 4 \ 47 \ 49 \ 5 \ 51 \ 6 \ 68 \ 7 \ 76 \ 77 \ 8 \ 9 \ buddyinfo \ bus \ cgroups \ cmdline \ config.gz \ consoles \ cpuinfo \ crypto \ devices \ diskstats \ driver \ execdomains \ exitcode \ filesystems \ fs \ interrupts \ iomem \ ioports \ irq \ kallsyms \ kcore \ kmsg \ kpageco < 1443684550 789501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /proc/cmdline < 1443684551 440233 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :initrd=/usr/bin/../lib/umlbox/umlbox-initrd.gz ubda=/tmp/16088.conf mem=256M con1=null,fd:3 con2=fd:5,fd:8 con=null,null root=98:0 < 1443684562 498229 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph it's not in there < 1443684593 151720 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /proc/buddyinfo < 1443684593 861876 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Node 0, zone Normal 1 3 1 2 2 4 4 3 2 2 57 < 1443684615 918768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls /proc | tail < 1443684616 734769 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sysemu \ sysrq-trigger \ sysvipc \ timer_list \ tty \ uptime \ version \ vmallocinfo \ vmstat \ zoneinfo < 1443684638 111540 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls /proc | tail -30 < 1443684638 866263 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ioports \ irq \ kallsyms \ kcore \ kmsg \ kpagecount \ kpageflags \ loadavg \ locks \ meminfo \ misc \ mounts \ net \ pagetypeinfo \ partitions \ self \ slabinfo \ softirqs \ stat \ sys \ sysemu \ sysrq-trigger \ sysvipc \ timer_list \ tty \ uptime \ version \ vmallocinfo \ vmstat \ zoneinfo < 1443684655 924029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /proc/seld < 1443684656 632837 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: /proc/seld: No such file or directory < 1443684658 547621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /proc/self < 1443684659 206206 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: /proc/self: Is a directory < 1443684675 378692 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /proc/self < 1443684676 139742 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :auxv \ cgroup \ clear_refs \ cmdline \ comm \ coredump_filter \ cpuset \ cwd \ environ \ exe \ fd \ fdinfo \ limits \ maps \ mem \ mountinfo \ mounts \ mountstats \ net \ ns \ oom_adj \ oom_score \ oom_score_adj \ pagemap \ personality \ root \ smaps \ stat \ statm \ status \ task \ wchan < 1443684716 514881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /proc/self/personality < 1443684717 138423 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :00000000 < 1443684927 703157 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443684939 923694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` which wh < 1443684940 752280 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1443684942 419614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` which who < 1443684943 109050 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/who < 1443684965 771658 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` who are you < 1443684966 468639 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1443685312 974995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :] x < 1443685321 275250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-bot: x < 1443685321 880436 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: x < 1443685331 748304 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1443685332 751773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-bot: help < 1443685333 447270 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: |value error: help < 1443685348 188380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :j-bot: 1+1 < 1443685348 924968 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 2 < 1443685396 865316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1443685401 711018 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 2^10 < 1443685402 386557 :j-bot!~j-bot@li1285-84.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 1024 < 1443685511 209977 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443685806 617564 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443685858 784487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats hppavilion[1] in absentia for quitting _just_ as he was finishing his message -----###
< 1443685875 345448 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ohai < 1443685880 416760 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats that "he" for ambiguity -----###
< 1443685885 777291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohayo < 1443686096 466505 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443686211 604445 :neo1-9-7-S!~neo@p4FC7537D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1443686258 638580 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? swat < 1443686259 538773 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :swat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1443686350 468992 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1443686363 601564 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443686772 446990 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443686922 547807 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1443687306 467433 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1443687519 262781 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily Oh dear fungot in the sky. Please drive me away from temptation, namely binging on webcomics before going to sleep. <-- most inefficient prayer ever tdnh < 1443687519 440879 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1443687519 440991 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: changing banks. once the channel is left out the computer responded with bit 0 for external audio signals, the graphics display is no line x, y is a mistake in your programmable characters in length, and < 1443687656 246431 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443687776 850833 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: so y is the debugging channel? < 1443687777 28856 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: there is a good description of the first 8 pixels is erased: the test is accomplished for voice 1 at location 53276 ( d01c). it is recommended that a high-pass filter reduces the volume of the basic interpreter < 1443687921 233629 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443688013 328811 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1443688024 58717 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did i get a mwahahaha < 1443688049 991632 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :does lambdabot accept @messages in pm? < 1443688076 446483 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it does < 1443688227 633240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did that in public anyway < 1443688322 696190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was in response to your own < 1443688710 577395 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443688794 654098 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massage < 1443688794 870431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1443688950 614290 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443689966 445804 :sammwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443690091 882898 :sammwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1443690099 466410 :sammwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443690106 519731 :heddwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443690125 870429 :sammwch!heddwch@76.8.3.189 NICK :heddwch < 1443690274 614624 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443690294 328242 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Golfing_language still only shows GolfScript but there are other pages in that category as well o_O? < 1443690500 143586 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see 5 languages there < 1443690508 532912 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1443690528 790587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :try reloading < 1443690587 642524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: iirc there's a bug with the category pages so that only the actual text counts for last modified date, or something < 1443690679 638395 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1443691263 948909 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1443691286 921532 :gniourf!~gniourf@pdm-l03.insa-lyon.fr QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1443691319 402933 :gniourf!~gniourf@pdm-l03.insa-lyon.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1443691404 314090 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Category:Golfing language14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44566&oldid=44533 5* 03160.85.232.152 5* (+12) 10* programming languages < 1443691468 331176 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah now I see 5 too < 1443692646 185377 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any of you guys have eso programs that produce fibonacci numbers that you'd release into public domain < 1443692653 73194 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or were already released into public domain < 1443692780 62875 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1443692864 781146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443693295 568604 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1443693550 614080 :neo1-9-7-S!~neo@p4FC7537D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1443694107 787779 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : [...] it is recommended that a high-pass filter reduces the volume of the basic interpreter < 1443694107 965825 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 2) test for the considerations involved), and not in the < 1443694111 170272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked that one. < 1443694133 632613 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you mean the basic interpreter makes a lot of low-frequency noise? < 1443694133 810813 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: bits 0-3 listed in the directory entry will read the paddle fire buttons. see entries for the operator to type the following < 1443694143 382944 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1443695037 489246 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"creatonism motion" < 1443695042 639133 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fridge is that < 1443695169 434955 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and scottish.parliament.uk has a nice "Server Error in '/' Application." error message < 1443695181 878060 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks .NET-like < 1443695207 370064 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah fuck those fucking javascript links < 1443695219 912277 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't fucking open them in a new tab < 1443695324 718033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1443695324 896262 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64* ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1443695332 888131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not used to this fungot style < 1443695333 66062 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are eight sprites, numbered from 0 again, i.e., but doesn't affect the number of times the one's place, then that sprite is 24 by 21 dots high. < 1443695344 83151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style c64 < 1443695344 261064 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) < 1443695649 395256 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One problem with it is that I didn't properly fill paragraphs. < 1443695665 52241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's prone to stopping in the middle of a < 1443695698 949192 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What's the address to poke for the border color? < 1443695699 127260 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 70 goto 20 get1, a zero, then that character. if the device-number is left off. < 1443695720 185563 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't seem right. < 1443695742 654663 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I looked at ayacc, and I like how the new style C api can be used re-entrantly without globals. I'm still sort of missing multiple entry points (top level symbols), but I can work that around. < 1443695753 194191 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll definitely try to test it. < 1443695761 224804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it has multiple entry points < 1443695768 707449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just give more than one %start declaration < 1443695773 747483 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, it can do that? < 1443695775 608596 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1443695776 805605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll get a warning saying that POSIX disallows it, but it'll work < 1443695783 855816 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't clear from the documentation < 1443695785 329598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the new-style API has the start symbol name in it for a reason) < 1443695789 914377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I've documented that yet < 1443695801 41583 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! so "_start" isn't literal, but it's supposed to mean an underscore followed by the start symbol name? < 1443695808 332988 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in yyparse_start that is < 1443695817 146931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1443695827 94402 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, another thing I wanted to ask is, < 1443695867 812181 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have the -p option to prefix all the exported symbols, or make it static. is there a corresponding declaration for this that you can put right inside the yacc input file? < 1443695903 67333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: currently no; -p is specified by POSIX, -p from inside the file isn't < 1443695934 682006 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443695942 84489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your use case for that? running "make" to run yacc, without an explicit makefile? < 1443695954 719505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or using aimake without an explicit rule to add -p? < 1443695972 84249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally the assumption is that people who write programs have control over the build instructions < 1443695989 83528 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is there a way you can tell it to put all the symbols inside (a) a C++ namespace or set of nested namespaces, (b) as extern "C"? both of these three is easy, you just have to emit a line of code before your declarations, but after any standard #include lines, plus some closing braces at the end. < 1443696012 571262 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I'm just wondering, the -p option is fine. it's inside a namespace that I'm really wondering about. < 1443696027 266790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there isn't currently, although some day there will be < 1443696048 631441 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems strange how some of yacc is controlled from command line and some from the yacc file, and I don't see the logic on what is where. < 1443696114 986853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIU, the split should be: the yacc file controls what the parsing algorithm is and the mathematical description of what is being parsed; the command line controls the API from which the parser is called from outside < 1443696117 559416 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for the re-entrant api, the cookie pointer is passed to the yylex and the yyerror functions that I supply. But how do I access the cookie from braced grammar rules? < 1443696203 779494 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that could make sense in theory, but in practice I won't be using just a simple mathematically nice grammar, but a grammar that only ayacc thinks is LALR(1), but actually it interacts with the lexer input and the braced blocks in strange ways. < 1443696224 804697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well it still lets you know where the API split is < 1443696246 886559 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in that case, some of the magic is in external source files, some in the grammar rules, and some is in the C code at the beginning of the yacc file. < 1443696252 98152 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C or C++ code) < 1443696261 527751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't think brace rules have access to the extra void * at the moment, at least not officially < 1443696270 315096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be easy enough to give them access, though < 1443696280 546597 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please give them access then, I think that would be useful. < 1443696290 287638 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be worked around, because the lexer can pass that pointer to it in every symbol, < 1443696299 332726 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think the parser already holds that pointer so it's pointless. < 1443696312 510497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually has a name right now, it's just "internal" and isn't meant to be user-visible < 1443696384 311367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yys.yyp.yylexarg" apparently < 1443696435 964681 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to use the extra argument because I want to start multiple nested yyparse instances. < 1443696497 805116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the correct thing to do here is to add a macro to expose the parameter under a more sensible name < 1443696499 565932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have one in mind? < 1443696512 872896 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1443696525 652958 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1443696531 474611 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have "cookie" or "baton" in it < 1443696550 751517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are weird names to use for the spare void * parameter < 1443696550 929515 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointers like this are usually called one of "cookie", "baton", "token", or "data", but "data" is stupid, and "token" is confusing in a parser generator < 1443696557 735547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally it's called something along the lines of "arg" < 1443696558 656564 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer "cookie" < 1443696577 269956 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because "cookie" means it's uninterpreted by you < 1443696588 603229 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"baton" is used because it's something the library "passes on" to you. < 1443696611 627164 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, "arg" is almost as bad as "data" < 1443696617 621204 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also "environment" or similar < 1443696617 944441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my understanding of a "cookie" or "magic cookie" is a special meaningless value that you use as a confirmation < 1443696633 705266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of like paranoid_quit but for programs < 1443696645 863486 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, I think that's "magic value" < 1443696651 79731 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know it was called for cookie < 1443696690 399607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of like the way that reboot(2) requires its first two arguments to be 4276215469 and 677274793, in an attempt to reduce the potential impact of undefined behaviour < 1443696716 288000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a few other options are now available for the second argument; they're used to commemorate important events in Linux's history) < 1443696720 395385 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exactly < 1443696735 962487 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's such things used in data structures to check for accidental memory corruption or invalid pointers < 1443696752 674381 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there's also "canary" or "sentinel" bytes used for detecting overwriting past the end of a buffer < 1443696758 179878 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"canary" to detect corruption early < 1443696773 183738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_cookie < 1443696781 186886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1443696794 738417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443696808 456432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, a canary is a value whose purpose is to detect being overwritten < 1443696829 58345 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a HTTP cookie doesn't mean this though, it just contains a value that isn't interpreted by the HTTP client, but is passed back to the HTTP server < 1443696835 955622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1443696850 438498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Wikipedia's definition of a magic cookie is more general than mine and less general than yours < 1443696863 101899 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is any of these apart from "token" used in some meaning related to parsers? if a word is, we should avoid it < 1443696867 822826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a value that's treated like a handle: the value is used to distinguish between different callers < 1443696884 230919 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, "opaque handle" < 1443696937 319438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows uses handles a lot < 1443697023 17195 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check some libraries for what they use < 1443697102 122882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :qsort_r uses "arg" < 1443697118 970630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was the first function with a callback-style void * that came to mind) < 1443697155 39546 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems lua doesn't have a C cookie associated with C functions (that is, lua functions implemented in C), but it lets the function have lua upvalues, and some of those lua upvalues can be "light userdata", that is, C pointers. however, the memory allocator function does have a cookie argument, and it's called variously "ud" and "ptr". < 1443697175 286214 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to check sqlite3, it has some cookies < 1443697265 430927 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? cookie < 1443697266 218605 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cookie? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1443697285 548688 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yum < 1443697293 845939 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^botsnack < 1443697294 62374 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh nom nom nom! < 1443697302 690657 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1443697302 868682 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 2h 43m 3s ago: Oh dear fungot in the sky. Please drive me away from temptation, namely binging on webcomics before going to sleep. <-- most inefficient prayer ever tdnh < 1443697338 586140 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ithm effective < 1443697350 11878 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan fungot answers me. fungot is great. fungot fungot fungot ♪ < 1443697350 189812 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1443697350 189879 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: os pointer to point to the 6510 at addresses 53248-57343 ( d000-dfff). specialized control circuitry minimizes software overhead, facilitating use in the sprite shape data in files, so that break points may be an input/ output operations. the < 1443697411 985740 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: stop almost making sense already < 1443697412 163837 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: examples: 100*2 50*0 a*x1 r%*14 print 43648 program text. once read, and < 1443697458 672155 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/8/86/Cookie_Crumbles_ID_S4E23.png/revision/latest?cb=20140614061241 cookies < 1443697471 907535 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, that's not relevant to the discussion < 1443697485 215313 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat disturbingly, it got the decimal/hex conversion correct (probably unique tokens, but still). < 1443697545 900819 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Cookie grammar: Cookies go well *with* tea, not *in* tea. ) < 1443697556 445379 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jhellonas. it's a poney cookie. or a cookie poney. < 1443697570 805974 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what's 380°F in celsius scale? < 1443697570 983982 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 1) can be held to 0 of the commodore 64 program cartridge. you must first choose a location as a single value which the < 1443697589 778128 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :your poney sounds phoney < 1443697613 367731 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fungot hasn't loaded the proper cartridge to convert temperatures. < 1443697613 546095 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: last key pressed. if future changes are made available by altering the contents of the 1k chunk of memory < 1443697618 452911 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google 380°F in °C < 1443697620 202419 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://checkpriceonline.tk/termometro-infrarossi-puntatore-laser-50-380-digitale-modello-1-koka69946/ < 1443697620 380405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Buy Cheap Best TERMOMETRO INFRAROSSI PUNTATORE LASER -50°/380°DIGITALE ... < 1443697628 642427 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google 380F in C < 1443697629 659566 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :193.333333 degrees Celsius < 1443697629 837568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.evi.com/q/380_fahrenheit_to_celsius < 1443697636 877346 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the unicodity... < 1443697665 78078 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first hit is disturbing < 1443697689 922206 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google 451F in C < 1443697691 6988 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :232.777778 degrees Celsius < 1443697691 185149 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2012/06/ray_bradbury_death_does_paper_really_burn_at_451_degrees_fahrenheit_.html < 1443697691 185196 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Ray Bradbury Death: Does paper really burn at 451 degrees Fahrenheit? < 1443697694 251432 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqlite3 calls it at least user_data (as in sqlite3_user_data to query it) and pApp (but it uses crazy prefixed names like that for most non-public api symbols), pArg, and sometimes simply unnamed because it appears only as a function parameter < 1443697745 541079 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :libev specifically calls it "data" < 1443697768 397531 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqlite3 also calls it pAppData in a public (but not mandatory) api < 1443697938 97858 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also pClientData < 1443697946 807345 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so in sqlite3 they just use random names for this < 1443697980 32188 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even random interfaces: some functions (deallocators of structures you allocate yourself) don't get a cookie at all, some get a cookie pointer passed to it, and some have to call a function to get their cookie pointer. < 1443697984 30183 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1443698001 865965 :nooga!~nooga@94.42.122.146 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443698020 988475 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if "cookie" is ambiguous, how about "baton"? does that have other meanings? < 1443698124 221896 :nooga!~nooga@94.42.122.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had this idea for a language, which compiler would assume that every programmers statement is a lie, and there would be a keyword "srsly" which would mark statement as not-lie < 1443698134 779866 :nooga!~nooga@94.42.122.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the compiler wouldn't trust the keyword < 1443698146 495081 :nooga!~nooga@94.42.122.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would have to solve liars paradox in compile time < 1443698153 334865 :nooga!~nooga@94.42.122.146 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and would ask questions to the programmer < 1443698667 941554 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1443698712 430002 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443698877 735390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: lunch < 1443699182 273107 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: FLUVIAL CHICKEN < 1443699302 158827 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1443699510 962861 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1443700086 72147 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443701032 325239 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-39-50.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1443701543 13340 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody experience with mod_rewrite < 1443701552 458401 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it dosen't accept my (.*)$ rule apparantely < 1443701651 961635 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can match ^api/(.*)$ hm... < 1443701729 898109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443701995 78684 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, I'd say yybaton then, unless baton also has some other meaning < 1443701999 951478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1443702016 861758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443702027 415614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the problem is that "baton" isn't commonly used for this sort of argument < 1443702034 203452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably just call it "arg", maybe with a qualifier < 1443702040 519552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that seems to be what everyone else calls it < 1443702104 522494 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it is used somewhere, let me check < 1443702430 561326 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think libsvn (subversion C api) uses "baton", but I don't know if that appears in the api names, or only the docs or function argument names < 1443702447 222964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe even call it yyvoidstar < 1443702453 714797 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh no < 1443702454 110885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because "the void * argument" is the standard name for it in conversation < 1443702461 804242 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can call it yyuserdata but I don't much like that < 1443702476 535363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I like that better than "baton" at least < 1443702494 751688 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or yycontext, yyupvalue, yycontinuation, yyenvironment < 1443702543 987488 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"userdata" is used, but not quite in this context, but in C structures that you may want to extend with your own data, but they're mallocated by the library so you can't just inherit from them < 1443702564 857797 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :used this way by the gnome people that is < 1443702602 87913 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome as in the group of libraries, not as a race < 1443702617 959772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"continuation" is completely wrong, a continuation is basically the functional version of a goto < 1443702639 434281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't think anyone would have interpreted that as being about gnomes the mythological creatures < 1443702649 278501 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:2c40:400::1:6e46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443702653 401402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if GNOME is at all related to ELF and DWARF, or if it's just a coincidence
< 1443702672 119137 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think DWARF is related to ELF < 1443702681 675489 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about GNOME, but I think it's related to GNU < 1443702706 249946 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait < 1443702722 489692 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't gnome very old, as in, it might predate the use of ELF on linux? < 1443702728 879192 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old is gnome? < 1443702743 746864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux used something before ELF? < 1443702747 105668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, a.out < 1443702754 145787 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but that was way before I started with linux < 1443702782 34124 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I started with linux, it already used only ELF, and the a.out stuff is for compatibility in the kernel and binutils only. nobody even has a.out libc so you can't actually run a.out programs. < 1443702783 306278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see occasional references to the a.out format in manpages, that's how I know about it < 1443702795 60902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is quite confusing that it has the same name as the default output file from cc) < 1443702843 349516 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the linux libc started in a.out, then it jumped to ELF, at which point it got renamed to gnu libc AND glibc AND libc 2.*, and they used it to break binary compatibility, which is generally a useful thing to do sometimes with libc to get rid of badly designed crap, and should be done more often < 1443703310 79098 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1443703517 698928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1443703543 533083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443703738 828970 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443704151 836765 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember Slackware doing the libc5 to glibc switch, and it was somewhat messy. < 1443704209 654314 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mroman.ch/testmoo/api/H/default meep :) < 1443704236 160204 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for GNOME/ELF, I don't know if they're related or whether GNOME predates widespread ELF-on-Linux, but it certainly doesn't predate ELF itself. < 1443704287 57579 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I see < 1443704296 209904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I didn't know it no longer stands for "GNU Network Object Model Environment" at all, like it used to. < 1443704322 533250 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm young enough that I don't remember that, I'm quite sure that the first linux I installed already used elf, by far. < 1443704341 633530 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: GCC has been reacronymmed too < 1443704356 720472 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's now "GNU compiler collection" instead of "GNU C compiler" < 1443704377 303300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I did know about. Makes sense. < 1443704391 396456 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell, GNOME no longer stands for anything. < 1443704392 647416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it compiles other languages too < 1443704414 260362 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and it's even written in C++ now < 1443704423 193405 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a mix of C and C++ < 1443704435 355204 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was renamed before < 1443704446 400477 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been compiling C++ and fortran and objective C and ada for quite a long time < 1443704473 693076 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I always installed it without most of the extra languages, enabling only C, C++, and sometimes fortran < 1443704487 233741 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need to compile the rest < 1443704743 400940 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux is still capable of running a.out programs with an extra module loaded < 1443704817 42826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, presumably, libc…3? installed < 1443704822 632875 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: yes, the kernel is, but you need an a.out libc and possibly other a.out libraries < 1443704825 291318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know we're on libc6 atm < 1443704825 644339 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you don't usually have < 1443704872 357630 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you'd need those < 1443705047 839163 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``curl -i -v -X POST -d 'code=iooo' http://mroman.ch/testmoo/api/deadfish/default < 1443705048 543754 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `curl: not found < 1443705052 778806 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pff < 1443705062 11440 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run curl -i -v -X POST -d 'code=iooo' http://mroman.ch/testmoo/api/deadfish/default < 1443705063 972147 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​* About to connect() to proxy 127.0.0.1 port 3128 (#0) \ * Trying 127.0.0.1... \ Failed to connect to socket 2. \ % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current \ Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed \ < 1443705091 483293 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``history | grep wget < 1443705092 192137 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `history: not found < 1443705122 723526 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run curl -X POST -d 'code=iooo' http://mroman.ch/testmoo/api/deadfish/default < 1443705123 463624 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failed to connect to socket 2. \ \ curl: (52) Empty reply from server < 1443705131 968384 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1443705271 467442 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1443705275 925850 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think http://www.mezzacotta.net/magic/goldfish/ is somewhat similar to those strange small M:tG formats we were discussing. < 1443705292 14346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that link goes to mezzacotta, and so is probably worth clicking on < 1443705325 354978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: this reminds me, there's a thread on Wizard's forums somewhere about the largest finite combo in magic < 1443705330 682094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those forums are going to shut down soon < 1443705339 852013 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it's linked from the IWC news snippet right now < 1443705366 665524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses Knuth up-arrow notation < 1443705370 730606 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, the forum will be shut down. that's a bit sad. apparently they're going to delete the whole thing, rather than make it unwritable except for admins. < 1443705382 499918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2820281 < 1443705407 426738 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's probably big, yes < 1443705467 238734 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget doesn't work either on hackego < 1443705492 761437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1443705499 365537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thread has smaller numbers than I remember < 1443705505 473234 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I think you'll need a very specific definition for "infinite combo" for this, and that definition would be difficult because of underspecified rules and computability bounds < 1443705536 478890 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not saying because of the threads, it's just that I think a large finite combo in M:tG can probably be very large. < 1443705560 542847 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that you rarely need to set up such a thing, because "small" finite combos or infinite combos are usually sufficient < 1443705641 131370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha: this is what really sparked it off: http://www.soniccenter.org/sm/mtg/megacombo.html < 1443705650 781561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is the resulting forum thread: http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/2230096 < 1443705703 1003 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, attacking with 1000 4/5 green elf warrior tokens is enough, I don't generally need more. Or spending exactly 100 mana for Helix Pinnacle, and then surviving till next upkeep with like a dozen expensive defensive spells. < 1443705729 148175 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And infinite combos are generally easier to set up than such big finite combos. < 1443705751 485618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good, they migrated to mtgsalvation: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/615089-most-turn-1-damage-in-a-deck-with-no-infinite < 1443705761 297402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly relevant because that's a forum that /isn't/ going to go down in a few weeks) < 1443705821 941308 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, can you use a combo for that that creates infinite mana, if you're very careful that the cards can't convert it to infinite damage to the opponent? < 1443705862 934871 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03DewiIoan 5* 10New user account < 1443705868 349746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you probably /could/ but it'd be less efficient because it reduces the number of things that you can use to add on exponents < 1443705877 928476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not have a good feeling about that username < 1443705881 300405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's see what it does first < 1443705891 304664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if anything) < 1443705923 120187 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I mean, you might need lots of mana (at least lots of colorless mana, or mana of some color(s)), and it can be easier to get infinite mana than to get a thousand mana sometimes; < 1443705936 93187 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though with some combos, you can regain more and more mana as you continue, so you might not need it. < 1443705952 29835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1443705966 744720 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:True14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44567&oldid=30804 5* 03DewiIoan 5* (+213) 10 < 1443706132 528478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443706138 74158 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm wait < 1443706146 42284 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how this goldfish draft can work: < 1443706155 501914 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it points out that "Note also that many times your deck will be unimaginably large, containing many powers of ten worth of basic lands to support engines that draw ridiculous amounts of cards." < 1443706181 804942 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you sometimes set up a simple combo that deals one damage for each basic land in your deck, minus a few? < 1443706220 786136 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, maybe that would count as an infinite combo < 1443706262 466855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I think it counts as an infinite combo, yes < 1443706271 124689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"could have performed", you could have put more lands in < 1443706434 584758 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that's an action you perform during deck building, not during the game. you also could have drafted other cards. < 1443706469 793993 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm not sure it's in scope for that rule. < 1443706819 179436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: hmm, many of these maximum non-infinite combos use different /colours/ of mana to give themselves higher numbers < 1443706825 515416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. can convert red mana to green hyperexponentially < 1443706846 885547 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nice < 1443706990 969538 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I played my elf deck against a goldfish with the deck ordered, then it could go singly exponential, though I'd probably have to modify it if I wanted it to be more effective in this kind of thing < 1443707081 855330 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok, maybe it couldn't go exponential < 1443707086 626231 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to modify it a bit for that < 1443707210 272727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, one of the largest three-card combos available here is apparently casting twinflame on as many targets as possible, then redirecting all the targets onto doubling season < 1443707225 718752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's… scary < 1443707245 568826 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1443707276 976598 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need to redirect? isn't there something that copies the spell for each available target? < 1443707285 715276 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, maybe that's what you mean < 1443707996 293434 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1443708064 603334 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that would be infinite < 1443708249 550003 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that other combo is only exponential < 1443708258 634035 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1443708267 278968 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to make something faster growing than just exponential < 1443708280 73221 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it would be double exponential < 1443708283 269954 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not better than that < 1443708506 98685 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443708734 407222 :nooga_!~nooga@94.42.122.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443708802 939600 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1443708850 589889 :nooga!~nooga@94.42.122.146 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443708892 771478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: haha, I've now reached the stage of the chronology of this thing where they'd run out of colours and were using /snow/ mana < 1443708942 334791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're now using right-arrow notation rather than up-arrow notation < 1443708980 245728 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's \A in regexes? < 1443708994 534387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1443708999 968025 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it possible to use copies of Rings of Brighthearth rather than copies of Doubling Season? < 1443709005 926398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443709007 94898 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: anchor to beginning of input string < 1443709008 494756 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it possible to use copies of Rings of Brighthearth rather than copies of Doubling Season? < 1443709019 452484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: beginning of the string, even if ^ is redefined < 1443709031 38177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see "man perlrebackslash < 1443709032 462581 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can redefine ^ o_O < 1443709033 902555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1443709037 684809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: to match newlines and the like < 1443709060 618518 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. right. < 1443709061 756699 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1443709414 251868 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and yes, up arrow notation can describe "small" combos, eg. you'd use N up arrows to describe a combo using N+O(1) resources such that each of them can be be spent on doubling your amount of the next resouce; for things like doubling the same resource with itself such as with Doubling Season, you need right arrow notation or some other Ackerman function. < 1443709424 180708 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no wait < 1443709426 829711 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting that wrong < 1443709435 960993 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :up arrow notation is enough for such a big combo < 1443709441 755130 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh these big numbers always confuse me < 1443709557 727350 :danofthedeep!~danofthed@c-50-128-162-167.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443709752 878551 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443709835 638166 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1443710299 969644 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1443710729 120808 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know if there is a way in gdb to set the ulimits for the process you debug? I can't set it before starting gdb, because then gdb fails < 1443710754 728965 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could patch in a call to setrlimit() or whatever in the debugged program, but surely there has to be a better way? < 1443711898 683027 :nooga_!~nooga@94.42.122.147 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1443712208 349304 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I REALLY need to become less absent-minded < 1443712214 465450 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very nearly lost my new laptop < 1443712220 42026 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I left it at a bus stop < 1443712230 764983 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the way to collect my glasses, which I had left in a cafe yesterday < 1443712253 544174 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1443712265 275739 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: print setrlimit(...) < 1443712527 468126 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone have any advice for being less absent-minded < 1443712543 831834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I suggest minimizing the consequences of being absent-minded, instead < 1443712553 204252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example you could physically tie the laptop bag to your body (e.g. with a piece of string) < 1443712566 145855 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could work < 1443712574 867231 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good idea < 1443712588 907507 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I just need to remember where I put my string! < 1443712676 27529 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I regularly forget to turn my water heater on < 1443712681 183286 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I try to make tea with cold water < 1443712760 483391 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :While 'print' probably works, gdb also has a 'call' command that I think is more semantically appropriate. < 1443712802 494739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought "print" was standard for this sort of thing < 1443712908 373283 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always used "call". < 1443712937 439984 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also prints the result, so there's probably not that much difference. < 1443712947 552621 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Won't take all those print options, though. < 1443713161 840184 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's october 1st < 1443713167 309297 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means it's chick flick week < 1443713180 119478 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ooh, good idea < 1443713234 828735 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's watch devil wears prada together < 1443714039 458638 :mroman_!~mroman@160.85.232.152 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1443714097 733220 :danofthedeep!~danofthed@c-50-128-162-167.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1443714131 975382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(This notation can also be extended to expressions that use 3 or more right arrows, but those are beyond the scope of this page, and I doubt the system of Magic will ever be expressive enough to include the types of constructs that would call for their use, outside of cases that truly do go infinite.)" < 1443714134 976528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, if only you knew < 1443714224 578230 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hehehe < 1443714260 679724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current research is trying to maximize the number of right arrows that can be used < 1443714289 649275 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, we can probably simulate any computable algorithm, and make it output damage, though it may require more than 60 cards, more than one player, or more than a few turns to set up < 1443714371 202135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: assuming the bug in the stackflow construction is fixed, you can, and you can even set it up on turn 1 of a 2p game; the problem is that you could also set up an infinite loop the same way < 1443714386 644481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you can write a busy beaver program, but nothing's preventing you writing an infinite loop instead < 1443714392 323765 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would that work against a goldfish opponent? < 1443714421 802164 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I guess you probably don't need more than one turn < 1443714422 464307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's set up so that it also works even against a non-goldfish opponent (assuming you go first and they don't have force of will or equivalent) < 1443714439 685657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :via the standard turn 1 combo techniques (black lotus into show and tell into omniscience into enter the infinite, etc.) < 1443714441 455840 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, but I mean, it doesn't require specific cards in the opponent's deck or something < 1443714447 866924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1443714461 549237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs the opponent to control certain cards, but there's always Donate < 1443714481 109058 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they only have to control permanents or tokens, yes < 1443714578 464922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : This week offer: Only 17.99 usd to rank your site in top 999.999 Alexa < 1443714584 332093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a decimal point or a comma? < 1443714591 125572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a decimal point, I don't believe it < 1443714636 189019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also clearly such spambots work, if they work at all, by manipulating alexa toolbar submissions rather than actually driving viewers to your site) < 1443714710 473064 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wants to maximize the number of right arrows? that sounds scary < 1443714738 329326 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanting to maximize the number of up arrows, I can see that < 1443714760 304473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it's much harder to get a right arrow < 1443714766 119647 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, definitely < 1443714781 644946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mostly involve 3- or 4-card combos that trigger off a particular basic landcycling effect < 1443714825 957192 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting three right arrows already sounds impossible (unless the numbers are trivially small so they simplify to two arrows with reasonably non-big numbers) < 1443714844 743157 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure how this right arrow notation works < 1443714859 457289 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I at least know where to find descriptions of these strange notations < 1443714905 966898 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that reminds me < 1443714994 970026 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1443715011 725481 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a nice answer on MathOverflow that's impressed me. someone asked a slightly underspecified but reasonable question, so I answered one interpretation, because you can obviously modify that answer for other reasonable similar interpretations. but then someone gave an algebraist answer, generalizing the problem a lot with higher-order functions and explicitly listed conditions so that his proof covers probably all reasonable interpretations. < 1443715039 696984 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the underspecified part was "Ackermann function", of which there's multiple definitions < 1443715051 691176 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he proved it for all "Ackermann-like functions" generally < 1443715118 884471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: here's the basis behind the Ackermann combo (the particular deck provided is potentially broken, but the fundamental behind the combo is sound): http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/615089-most-turn-1-damage-in-a-deck-with-no-infinite?page=2#c41 < 1443715221 469374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current record is based on trying to find a separate Ackermann combo for each colour of mana (including snow) < 1443715240 75110 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1443715282 833513 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you use mana with strange restrictions, especially from evolved Sliver Hive? < 1443715293 788840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they're also running out of deck space as it is < 1443715305 189878 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I guess that would be a problem < 1443715307 266878 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:2c40:400::1:6e46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1443715325 277015 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm asking about Sliver Hive because maybe you can Artificially Evolve it to multiple creature types < 1443715338 393816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ackermann combos are a lot less efficient than the merely exponential combos, in terms of deck space < 1443715343 176763 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it might be hard to make it non-infinite if you can copy stuff that much < 1443715344 163633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although who cares, they have a /way/ higher complexity) < 1443715359 868624 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1443715361 449462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Artifical Evolution is much too easy to create loops with < 1443715387 506318 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone linked these on another channel http://parsleysagerosemarytimemachine.tumblr.com/post/130181748287/so-i-might-have-stayed-up-late-tonight-creating < 1443715397 458353 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have no understanding of mtg < 1443715450 721937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1443715458 16275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a text post < 1443715481 166926 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, and part of the problem is that you may need a lot of mana to start some of these loops, but you probably don't want infinite mana, or at least not of all colors < 1443715484 866034 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not? the card images are loading for me at least < 1443715489 771047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really, M:tG is a cross between a card game and a programming language, only the card game is incredibly expensive (because it's only provided as randomized subsets) < 1443715512 677663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I believe the standard is to allow unlimited colorless mana, and restrict the usage of each individual colour < 1443715529 650267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the colorless isn't technically "infinite", but rather generated in quantities greater than you need during the combo using Mana Echoes) < 1443715542 232501 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-39-50.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443715554 619833 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, but then you may still need like a hundred colored mana just to play fourty cards to set up multiple combos < 1443715568 291151 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, probably not a hundred < 1443715607 38935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: omniscience < 1443715619 39900 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! good idea < 1443715619 619718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works out really neatly, because it lets you play any spells you like, but doesn't pay for abilities < 1443715641 119186 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you have to be careful not to allow playing spells infinitely then < 1443715642 344957 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1443715688 877746 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the rules for this again? vintage legal deck of 60 cards, against goldfish, and any number of turns? < 1443715720 257545 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and rules about the opponent not losing from the life loss probably. < 1443715734 121946 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have to deal the damage to the opponent? < 1443715734 299973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 60 cards, no sideboard (or other cards outside the game), no bans, 4-of limit, do as much damage as you can turn 1 against a goldfish, the goldfish /does/ lose from life loss so you want to do it all as one chunk < 1443715746 284189 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn 1, ok < 1443715751 145988 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1443715752 658092 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1443715754 919627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the goldfish's deck consists of 60 basic lands (this is actually relevant sometimes) < 1443715766 308649 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, if you mill him < 1443715782 161627 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :so has mtg been proven TC or are you working on that < 1443715791 630571 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 QUIT :Quit: Ping Pong Fuckout < 1443715795 773069 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I guess the losing from life loss isn't that much of a limitation < 1443715798 470781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it was proven TC ages ago < 1443715806 813164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new problem has been trying to prove it TC with no choices made by the players < 1443715817 372962 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can make him unable to lose, temporarily, with that demon thing < 1443715825 219098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. there is no way to stop the game calculating arbitrary Turing-complete calculations no matter what the players do, other than conceding) < 1443715832 682671 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Abyssal Persecutor < 1443715841 513094 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then killing that < 1443715849 336811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that'd work too but it costs a card < 1443715866 273132 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or two cards, yes < 1443715869 165810 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would a helplessly TC MtG imply a situation when the game is proven to have ended but the winner is undecidable? < 1443715870 566235 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on what you pack < 1443715889 712287 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: though it can also help if you cause the opponent to draw repeatedly, and use that to get a number 60 < 1443715894 737887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes < 1443715916 387325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm < 1443715919 589441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknown, certainly < 1443715924 760307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to make it formally undecidable? < 1443715947 912637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not, you can't simulate the rules of M:tG in M:tG itself because of the rule that says infinite loop = draw requires a halting oracle < 1443715954 613374 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it can be undecidable between you winning and a draw < 1443715975 56706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there's some way to use Shaharazad in order to make the result of a subgame observable and construct a halting oracle that way < 1443715976 670024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1443715977 512450 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't have to simulate the rules of M:tG, you only have to simulate some known undecidable problem < 1443716004 139777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there are no known undecidable problems that don't rely on the details of the axioms used to decide them, though < 1443716033 955986 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and I think because of the infinite loop rule, if you make it so that you're allowed to make the choice of where to stop, or allowed to choose the amount of fuel before the start, you can make it so that it's definitely not a draw, but undecidable between you winning and the other player winning. < 1443716051 239251 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but the axioms are the ZFC axioms, not related to M:tG < 1443716062 853184 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even some axioms weaker than ZFC < 1443716068 252072 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, it has to be ZFC < 1443716094 373010 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you simulate a program that searches for a ZFC proof for a statement that says "I do not have a proof in ZFC" < 1443716112 168769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, but there is no such statement < 1443716113 543605 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then this program won't halt, but you can't prove that in ZFC < 1443716118 478956 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't there be? < 1443716127 231666 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there is < 1443716131 291215 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can construct one with quining < 1443716138 892188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I meant no such proof < 1443716145 3363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZFC is believed to be consistent, right? < 1443716153 189333 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, we have to assume it's consistent < 1443716159 729650 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Believed to be consistent does not mean that it is consistent < 1443716161 750477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if such a proof existed, then it would prove a false statement < 1443716168 48583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let me put it this way < 1443716193 565558 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but you can't prove in ZFC that it doesn't have a proof, which means ZFC can't prove that the loop will never terminate, < 1443716198 907002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we construct an M:tG game that bruteforces ZFC, looking for a proof of "this statement has no proof" < 1443716200 478546 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in the end you get a match for which you can't prove who wins < 1443716209 646370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't find one < 1443716217 270292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossilbe to prove /in ZFC/ that it won't find one < 1443716223 69765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, Magic judges are not bound by the rules of ZFC < 1443716227 280393 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1443716244 638154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, being human, they can do the reasoning we've done above and determine that no proof will be found, thus the program is a draw < 1443716272 301934 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, the Magic judges are bound by the tournament rules, and they'll kick you out of the tournament when you're less than one percent into explaining all the details of how your complicated combo works, or before that if your deck is so large you can't shuffle it. < 1443716297 772015 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably can't even set up all your combo in a tournament, because you'll be punished for stalling the time unnecessarily, when you could just win the game instead. < 1443716309 604795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: anyway, I'm thinking about it like this < 1443716325 268953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what if someone encodes the statement "Magic: the Gathering judges cannot consistently affirm this statement"? < 1443716327 392342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is currently a halting oracle in the rules that says that nonterminating game with no ability to disrupt it = draw, right? < 1443716328 216036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :checkmate < 1443716337 575055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that needs a model of human behaviour < 1443716343 865787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I think you can get a contradiction here < 1443716345 373031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using subgames < 1443716356 502294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :subgames allow a win/draw/loss to be observable < 1443716372 251419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already know that if we reach a situation that a) does not allow the stack to clear, and b) does not give anyone any choices until the stack clears < 1443716376 509218 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, chess is way more finite on a finite board. infinite board has some interesting research though, involving large countable cardinal numbers and such. < 1443716379 634328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the game is necessarily an instant win, loss, or draw < 1443716400 234086 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ooh, is MtG TC? < 1443716403 86970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a subgame, we may be able to determine which (it'll take some care to figure out how much life players have but that shouldn't be impossible) < 1443716405 690749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: …yes < 1443716408 810910 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1443716411 408974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually we think it might be higher < 1443716411 997477 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's no way you can force the subgame to behave exactly the way you want with a setup before it < 1443716416 381626 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, higher? < 1443716418 318437 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :How < 1443716418 897500 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not without allowing decisions < 1443716425 873757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh bleh < 1443716430 45024 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1443716434 214180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% convinced, although it might require more than a 60-card deck < 1443716450 254695 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: higher than 60 card isn't much of a problem < 1443716450 868958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, what about using Lich's Mirror instead? although that doesn't trigger on draws < 1443716457 466072 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how can it be higher than TC? < 1443716463 121776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's a halting oracle < 1443716472 793222 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very few actual reasonable to play builds require more than 60 cards < 1443716476 598089 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... good luck with that < 1443716478 298950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're trying to figure out a way to see if that halting oracle is accessible from within the game itself < 1443716485 405863 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so more than 60 card isn't a problem for a tournament itself < 1443716485 638689 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah neat < 1443716489 640969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ideal would be to set up a contradiction in which the game halts if and only if it doesn't halt < 1443716508 961040 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem about that is that the halting oracle is underspecified in two ways < 1443716522 388834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may /finally/ persuade the M:tG rules people to fix their rules on infinite loops < 1443716532 573721 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think it can be fixed completely < 1443716537 909413 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some parts of it can be fixed, sure < 1443716544 156132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: what do you think are the underspecifications in the halting oracle? < 1443716557 483975 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the lesser problem is not in the halting oracle, but how it's used, < 1443716588 751235 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, let me read the rules, I don't remember exactly < 1443716606 101911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: here's a potential fix: "if an apparent infinite loop occurs, each player may either offer a draw or name a number of iterations; if both players offer a draw, the game is drawn; otherwise, if the loop continues for more than the stated number of iterations, the player who offered that number of iterations loses" < 1443716623 940411 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : which may /finally/ persuade the M:tG rules people to fix their rules on infinite loops <-- they don't do it like chess? IIRC that is like "if the same position is repeated more than 3 times, the game is a draw"? < 1443716631 629924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives you a primitive recursive oracle < 1443716642 325353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Magic has an unbounded number of possible positions < 1443716646 715179 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that allows both players to lose < 1443716665 633082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that can already happen in normal gameplay (e.g. rakdos charm) < 1443716670 344255 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK < 1443716681 664407 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1443716687 129260 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think the underspecification is about what actions you must perform to break a loop < 1443716707 622605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ah right; the rules do require you to break a loop if you can, but leave it unclear as to precisely what that means < 1443716724 262070 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: eg. I think the rules say you don't have to cast Terror just to break an infinite loop involving creates an opponent sets up < 1443716726 925473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the conventional wisdom is that they require you to not play abilities/spells that are keeping the loop going < 1443716727 151169 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what happens when your deck runs out? < 1443716744 665264 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rule is 716.5 in some version < 1443716745 822391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't require you to play abilities/spells that aren't part of the loop just for the purpose of disrupting it < 1443716753 300350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you lose if you try to draw a card from an empty deck < 1443716756 629319 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No player can be forced to perform an action that would end a loop other than actions called for by objects involved in the loop." < 1443716759 725570 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, that is a lot of rules < 1443716763 572844 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1443716766 540861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they aren't numbered consecutively < 1443716774 944416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every now and then it skips to the next multiple of 100 < 1443716775 684801 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so, won't that limit the game length? < 1443716784 526480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can recycle cards back into the deck < 1443716788 22118 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1443716789 316866 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443716795 202972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the setups we're talking about typically all happen on turn 1 < 1443716823 516916 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I never played MtG, but I believe heartstone for example will definitely be limited due to this < 1443716835 94581 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so it is infinite in a single turn? < 1443716838 81959 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, can you set up a loop where only the opponent can make (meaningful) choices, and to break the loop, he is required to perform some very hard cryptographic NP problem, like factoring a huge composite number or finding a string with a given sha-1 sum? < 1443716848 481528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hearthstone is very different than M:tG in this case, because hearthstone doesn't have the instants/responding mechanic < 1443716861 75829 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1443716864 584115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is heavily involved in my combo < 1443716877 123292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: oh, beautiful < 1443716890 260339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is probably yes, I can envisage some way to add input to StackFlow < 1443716900 119471 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I mean using repeatedly such kinds of decisions where the opponent is required to choose to break the loop, such as a "an opponent sacrifices a creature" where he has two creatures he could choose < 1443716915 859218 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh that is right... Doesn't MtG have ways to interrupt what the opponent is doing? This is what you refer to? < 1443716925 26661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1443716933 897912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yourself, which is less useful except when setting up stupid combos < 1443716941 725182 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and they don't limit the "recursion depth" of that? < 1443716959 484426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the http://esolangs.org/wiki/StackFlow combo ends up setting up a self-sustaining loop that repeatedly interrupts itself < 1443716964 997626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any human interaction < 1443716971 104860 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sure, but you'd set up the loop in such a way that he doesn't have the resources to interrupt the game in any way, such as make sure he has no cards in the hand, no abilities he can activate, doesn't ever get priority or turn start during the loop, etc < 1443716994 664460 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, ouch < 1443717000 403426 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the only thing they are still allowed to do is to concede the game, which any player can do any time, but it immediately causes them to lose the game in an unreversable manner < 1443717019 123240 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wonder if such a crypto challenge would force the opponent to concede the game < 1443717029 149605 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1443717039 993597 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they could take a shortcut if they can prove there is a solution? < 1443717053 202020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought such controversial shortcuts had to be agreed by both players < 1443717059 383634 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if they prove the number is composite, they can just describe how they make the right actions < 1443717082 209647 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think they have to. they have to be agreed in that he can't tell what decisions _you_ will make, if you're allowed choices < 1443717089 118925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, even proving a large composite number composite is hard if you don't happen to hit it with one of the probabilistic prime tests, which are hard to do in your test < 1443717092 824848 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just have to prove the judge that wit works < 1443717094 309539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in your head < 1443717101 414359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the largest known composite strong pseudoprime? < 1443717114 229146 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we have deterministic (but slow) prime tests now, < 1443717116 972990 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can use paper. < 1443717119 115202 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, even then < 1443717133 160852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: we had deterministic but slow prime tests even beforehand < 1443717133 659081 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't run a prime test on a big number in your head < 1443717146 28470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is that they're now polynomial (specifically sextic) rather than exponential < 1443717149 773382 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1443717161 560910 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, presumably this will require a lot of luck for you to get the right cards in the hand at the same time? < 1443717173 348578 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, you can probably set up a problem where he can't even determine polynomiallly whether there's a solution, and there's half a chance that there's a solution < 1443717177 350918 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1443717210 513022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there are "universal combo setups" that let you start off any combo you like with maybe about 5-10% probability, even against an opponent who is trying to stop you < 1443717223 284463 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1443717241 600052 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think MtG has some issues as a game that needs to be ironed out < 1443717244 601680 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443717260 94361 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: start when, your first turn, or the upkeep of an opponent that goes first? < 1443717278 568048 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and are these Vintage-legal, or do they instead involve four Black lotuses? < 1443717281 82174 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443717283 16990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: the ones I know are on your own turn, and Legacy-legal < 1443717291 797062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Vintage makes it easier because of moxen < 1443717298 5741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I don't really know any of them < 1443717301 230863 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :legacy-legal and 5%? wow < 1443717303 795854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's also doable in Modern, although harder still of course < 1443717315 106062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: also it's not necessarily turn 1 < 1443717322 262429 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds hard because of how many things an opponent can do, with their Simian Spirit Guides < 1443717333 128894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I meant against typical opponents < 1443717338 543948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ones which are specifically anti-metagaming your deck < 1443717341 863551 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, only against typical ones? < 1443717346 355314 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, then it is certainly possible < 1443717352 520643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, if you look at Legacy Omnitell, that's pretty close to a universal combo setup as is < 1443717352 698867 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Vintage, definitelyu < 1443717357 699733 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably in Legacy too < 1443717368 972557 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why markdown? :( < 1443717384 366127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because I'm still an esolanger :-) < 1443717393 324375 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1443717402 665841 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you combo into a state where you can even let the opponent take any number turns alternating with you, and he still can't do anything to disrupt you? < 1443717407 113269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did acknowledge that it was an inappropriate syntax < 1443717413 709007 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, say, at least a few thousand turns < 1443717430 906666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes, the normal approaches involve either controlling the top of the opponent's library, or Shared Fate < 1443717433 207060 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just want to see Literate StackFlow now. < 1443717443 422566 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, or just repeated controlling the opponent's turn < 1443717446 821823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the Shared Fate Modern deck is probably tier 3, but hilarious) < 1443717451 104274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: then the opponent isn't really taking turns < 1443717459 492183 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, true < 1443717464 267067 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, "normal approaches" < 1443717469 330430 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds funny in this context < 1443717563 417782 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it would seem these kinds of things would break tournaments a lot, not people trying to make the game undecidable, but combos you can't break out of would. That is why fighting games have combo breakers for example... < 1443717593 388117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in practical tournament play, the opponent normally concedes when you do that < 1443717598 95217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :combo breakers exist but they're counterable < 1443717616 255810 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also presumably you would have to build your deck for that < 1443717623 655564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. in Legacy play, Force of Will is commonplace not because it's an actual good card, but because it's one of the few cards that can escape an opponent's combo) < 1443717624 804478 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the cryptographic thing is definitely more complicated than what you could do in a tournament < 1443717629 926502 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ordinary infinite combo isn't < 1443717641 278805 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1443717651 476250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every now and then a tournament player says "show me the combo" and forces the other player to play it out < 1443717666 573744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes they screw it up (especially if they got the deck from the Internet and haven't practiced it much) < 1443717671 56813 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, From an outsider perspective (who never played the game) this would seem a major flaw in it < 1443717685 272089 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: definitely, that happens even in moderately complicated decks < 1443717706 585676 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even I have built decks where I have to practice a lot before playing, or else I make a ton of mistakes < 1443717707 872821 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : every now and then a tournament player says "show me the combo" and forces the other player to play it out <-- is that a move? Forcing the other player to play a combo??? < 1443717722 569444 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas some decks are so simple you can play them without paying much attention < 1443717723 200248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, you do it when the other player has started a combo, as the alternative to conceding < 1443717727 444676 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1443717731 431017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: not really, even simple decks have lots of decisions < 1443717741 689466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burn is often considered a very simple deck but you still have to choose whether to aim at players or monsters < 1443717746 174246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, creatures < 1443717753 779053 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, but they're either easy decision, or decisions that don't impact the player much < 1443717764 971128 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't thinking of a burn deck, but more of a creature-based deck < 1443717784 280000 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, even that can sometimes have lots of decisions about which creature to play first or how many creatures to attack with < 1443717792 282241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whether to hold them back about wraths < 1443717796 993387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*against wraths < 1443717801 176425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how to play around counterspells < 1443717804 855516 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1443717815 409660 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the metagame matters a lot in how simple it is < 1443717822 174341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, midrange vs. midrange is something I find really boring to watch (especially bad as it's what Wizards has been pushing the most recently) < 1443717828 318023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are still lots of decisions, just ones I don't find interesting < 1443717859 973766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's some Literate StackFlow lower down the page < 1443717883 327959 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Wizards always has to push the game in a direction that many decks are simple to play, or else the whole game gets too complex for tournaments < 1443717892 548466 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and less enjoyable < 1443717892 726542 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I saw that a bit later yes < 1443718160 82372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: anyway, what we need to do wrt StackFlow < 1443718164 299878 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1443718174 434133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a) fix the current bug in the construction < 1443718184 68433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) see if we can find some way to observe the halting oracle outcome from within the game < 1443718193 56211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any effects that replace draws /other than/ Shaharazad? < 1443718207 133800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and Enter the Dungeon, which doesn't exactly count)? < 1443718278 371734 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1443718327 306752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, do you shuffle your deck at the start of a subgame? < 1443718347 832305 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you man replace "the game is a draw"? < 1443718351 939745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes < 1443718360 763232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already have lich's mirror for replacing losing < 1443718363 840112 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to replacing "draw a card" < 1443718371 647650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, replacing "draw a card" is easy < 1443718382 88369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in this case, I particularly want to replace an infinite loop < 1443718391 952210 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there deliberately isn't a way to replace "the game is a draw", because that would cause a problem if there's an infinite loop or if all players lost at the same time < 1443718410 920122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well shahrazad replaces a draw in the subgame by halving each player's life total in the main game < 1443718428 555468 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Shahrazad is banned in all formats, isn't it? < 1443718439 409991 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as if it was silver or gold bordered now < 1443718535 529224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages- < 1443718535 707819 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily said 5h 53m 5s ago: fungot answers me. fungot is great. fungot fungot fungot ♪ < 1443718608 170525 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is a sub game in MtG? What it sounds like? (Pausing the game and playing a separate game, then resuming the main game, modified in some way based on the sub game outcome?) < 1443718622 998595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, that < 1443718628 863931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wizards quickly realised it was a bad idea < 1443718635 593739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and banned it in every ruleset they support < 1443718641 425322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, not /that/ quickly, but they have done) < 1443718642 54785 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it would make the game awfully complicated < 1443718660 409400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun to do once, but players were repeatedly starting recursive subgames in order to run out time in the round during tournaments < 1443718660 644409 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it already is < 1443718670 520504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a method of avoiding losing or to maintain a lead < 1443718678 115303 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1443718706 809371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e ithm effective <-- you must not have seen fungot's response hth < 1443718706 987439 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: some experimentation with various envelope rates, then drops to an i/ o < 1443718706 987509 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1443718756 633473 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1443718756 850543 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64* ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1443718766 957268 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style c64 < 1443718767 135165 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) < 1443718768 672557 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1443718780 144392 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style discworld < 1443718780 322417 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) < 1443718782 573622 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fungot < 1443718783 118867 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ' don't mention it. do not meddle in the affairs of priests, with dios in front of his colleague. ' lots of people with nothing to do with it. < 1443718844 818032 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could lock a player's turn down while still allowing him to draw any card from his deck and keep any seven in their hand. You have to destroy all their mana sources, donate an Agressive Mining, get ten copies of Sphere of Resistance and Suppression Field each so he can't do anything even if he discards seven spirit guides, but maybe there's still a way to break out of that. < 1443718869 615300 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luckily Suppression Field and Sphere of Resistance work for cards in any zone < 1443718891 292781 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez, MtG is complicated. < 1443718920 370666 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: which part? (all of it, I know) < 1443718940 522077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: do any of those cards block triggered abilities? < 1443718943 313124 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, well what I seen of it. All the terminology. < 1443718946 522164 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a start < 1443718953 798147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of discarding a card with an on-discard triggered ability to hand size < 1443718964 810419 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, right, madness cards with a trigger < 1443718965 722980 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1443718974 300480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are cards with madness 0, although your sphere might block that < 1443718987 520279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could discard a dredge card and then start dredging narcomoebas < 1443719012 318577 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1443719015 86606 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Narcomoeba... I didn't know that one < 1443719045 171570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually one of the main cards in both a legacy deck /and/ a vintage deck < 1443719051 54318 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how about if you throw in a Yixlid Jailer? < 1443719055 850437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also extended, back when that existed < 1443719075 291008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely enough the combo was legal in standard for a while but nobody realised it was good at the time < 1443719138 176770 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, Madness could cause problems < 1443719162 591171 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, but I think Sphere of Resistance does block madness < 1443719173 138625 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wasn't there some other trigger on discard somewhere? < 1443719221 496422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the problem with getting shahrazad to work is you somehow have to set the combo up inside the subgame without any player decisions < 1443719229 707569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will be awkward, because of things like mulligans < 1443719235 406563 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ability was it that replaced discarding anything with a move that causes the card to be not revealed? < 1443719252 681744 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's what I said, you can't force much to happen inside the subgame < 1443719296 256338 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can set the subgame up if you're allowed to make decisions, but you can't force a computation in it by setting up earlier < 1443719302 871482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, you do shuffle your libraries at the start of the subgame < 1443719310 115520 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you do < 1443719321 194403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't think of any way for the main game to influence the subgame, except by influencing card availablility < 1443719362 904602 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, you can influence who the two players are, their starting library, and maybe their sideboard? I don't know how subgames work now < 1443719368 767557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any Conspiracies that prevent mulligans? < 1443719376 641284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can influence the sideboard via wishing cards out from it in the main game < 1443719385 330589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a separate zone from exile, though < 1443719391 721748 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean the sideboard of the subgame < 1443719403 30432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure whether main-game cards count as subgame-sideboard, subgame-exile, or neither (although I'm pretty sure it's not subgame-exile0 < 1443719408 222678 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't a wish in the subgame wish something from some zone of the main game? < 1443719426 123238 :ineiros!~itniemin@dsl-hkibrasgw1-58c3fe-184.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443719440 184069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" All objects in the main game and all cards outside the main game are consi dered outside the subgame (except those specifically brought into the subgame)" < 1443719466 411721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like every zone in the main game is "outside the game" for the subgame < 1443719473 154039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that you can subgame-wish cards out of maingame-exile < 1443719480 543979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can't subgame-riftsweep them from there < 1443719484 34484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or anywhere else) < 1443719537 395387 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, there are rules about subgames in main games that are Planechase, Vanguard (seriously, isn't that completely impossible?), Commander, and Archenemy, but none for Conspiracy... no wait, I'm just reading a too old ruleset < 1443719580 434273 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think wishes and similar in the subgame can bring cards from the main game to the subgame < 1443719591 454562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: paper vanguard exists < 1443719605 827801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm reading the current version of the comp rules < 1443719610 816732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :none for Conspiracy, you're right < 1443719654 348197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you could probably actually pull that off, too; isn't there a conspiracy that lets you add another booster pack to the draft, and is there any restriction that it's a conspiracy pack? < 1443719691 561408 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1443719716 474682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, Conspiracy doesn't seem to be on Gatherer < 1443719717 915052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set, taht is < 1443719735 510189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, or not in the search < 1443719739 585740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can find conspiracy cards via their names < 1443719801 766091 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you make two levels of subgames, then concede the middle level game, what happens with the cards of the innermost level game? do those cards still count as being in the middle level game, in which case they are moved to the exile of the main game by 715.5? < 1443719856 895556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, yes, Lore Seeker < 1443719872 135033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :allows you to use Alpha cards and Conspiracies in the same format (3×Conspiracy draft) < 1443719912 915191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means, in particular, that the subgame/conspiracy interaction is possible in a sanctioned format < 1443719926 334549 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure, aren't banned cards still banned? < 1443719927 297835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't see Shahrazad on the list of cards banned in Conspiracy draft < 1443719936 736107 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1443719962 55861 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not banned in Conspiracy? isn't the Conspiracy ban list derived form some other ban list? < 1443719980 3897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conspiracy's a draft format < 1443719983 225880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those tend not to get bans < 1443719990 653423 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes yes, but still < 1443720016 512942 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, can this allow you to add an Un-set booster, and play silver bordered cards from it? < 1443720039 679982 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, literal Alpha boosters are very expensive these days < 1443720049 867462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I was thinking more "can you add a Beta booster and play /ante/ cards from it?" < 1443720065 71872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess they'd just be removed from your deck < 1443720069 297657 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what would that buy you in a limited game? < 1443720074 175948 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it wasn't removed < 1443720080 352838 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd just get a few more cards from that limited pool < 1443720132 711886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: it'd buy you a 39-card deck < 1443720141 826655 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's already a Conspiracy card for that < 1443720145 543478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are easier ways, /especially/ in Conspiracy (where you can have a 35-card deck legitimately) < 1443720152 951437 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1443720208 296847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can confirm that nowhere on the Wizards website does it give a banned list for 3×Conspiracy draft < 1443720212 158719 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas if you could bring an Un-set booster in, that could potentially influence future games with the same opponent using Time Machine < 1443720254 954827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are Un-cards even Magic cards, legally? < 1443720316 875082 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see rule 108.2, I think they are < 1443720322 348192 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just banned in all formats < 1443720335 656654 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gold bordered cards are too, but you can't get those from a booster < 1443720373 315429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks the MTR
< 1443720396 475282 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, I don't think Time Machine actually works in the rules < 1443720405 601620 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHat is "Un-set"? < 1443720420 910268 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :What* < 1443720422 851641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that Un-cards might technically work the same way as token cards, ad cards, etc. < 1443720430 357394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a joke set that looks sort-of like a real Magic set < 1443720437 998956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the cards have silver borders and abilities that don't work within the rules < 1443720448 290875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were printed by the same company who makes Magic < 1443720464 305530 :danofthedeep!~danofthed@c-50-128-162-167.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443720471 448455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome danofthedeep < 1443720472 476426 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :danofthedeep: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1443720534 544097 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1443720539 506635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1443720554 843451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT the MTR allows checklist cards from Innistrad, but not from Magic Origins < 1443720555 617463 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"101.1. Whenever a card’s text directly contradicts these rules, the card takes precedence." < 1443720597 498067 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anything that says that the text of other objects (tokens, copies of spells, emblems, etc) or players also take precedence? < 1443720608 657174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually MTR 3.5 implies that an Origins DFC has to be represented by an Innistrad checklist card in the deck < 1443720616 379198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :players don't have text < 1443720626 913173 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok true, players can't < 1443720632 915742 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how about other objects? < 1443720645 476227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Players may not use errors or o missions in Oracle to abuse the rules. The Head Judge is the final authority for card interpretations, and he or she may overrule Oracle if an error is discovered." < 1443720652 126509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I guess this is an old MTR copy < 1443720658 417521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it talks about when Magic 2015 becomes legal < 1443720664 999267 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1443720713 851958 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to find a rule that has the intent that rules other than that of the Comprehensive Rules and that of objects already in the game con't modify the game state, so rules you just make up or text on the Time Machine of the previous game can't modify the game. < 1443720733 392837 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite sure you can't just make up rules and say that they influence the game. < 1443720734 34661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: there's an un-card that undoes errata < 1443720737 649759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is sort-of the opposite of what you want < 1443720778 272051 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I'd like to prove that Time Machine, Double *, and Ass Whuppin' doesn't actually work in the games targetted < 1443720800 25590 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can't influence non-un games per Comprehensive Rules, despite that Maro's un-judgement says they can < 1443720812 999301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ass Whuppin' only hits silver-bordered cards for a reason < 1443720823 901572 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, probably not Ass Whuppin' then < 1443720830 266477 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how about Time Machine and Double * < 1443720891 401794 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, I think even if they work, an opponent can always break out of a multi-game cascading effect by conceding one game very early < 1443720906 247531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, conceding is a choice < 1443720923 624456 :danofthedeep!~danofthed@c-50-128-162-167.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1443720948 497515 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, it shouldn't influence a serious game even if the opponent forgets to play a normal game after the last un-game in which you Double Play-ed him < 1443720968 970449 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/normal/casual non-un/ < 1443721008 703860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Like almost everyone who uses e-mail, I receive a ton of spam every day. Much of it offers to help me get out of debt or get rich quick. It would be funny if it weren't so irritating. < 1443721038 329114 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1443721050 895657 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? doesn't he get spam to buy rolex or viagra? < 1443721072 181028 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get much spam. Maybe one a week or so < 1443721080 582773 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the spam I get is actually academic spam, because that goes through spam filters more easily than other spam < 1443721094 676633 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, academic spam? < 1443721107 358312 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :any *eroxy spam? < 1443721107 536286 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nokuxohvjrqdrver JOIN :#esoteric < 1443721129 375042 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, what is that? < 1443721137 374289 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: spam inviting you to publish in a scientific journal or apply to a scientific conference, sent to people with their name and email address taken from scholar articles, with "Professor" always appended to their name < 1443721142 242724 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, ah < 1443721145 288267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: this was in the earlier days of spam, I think < 1443721146 557778 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh there are so many conferences and journals where "peer-review" is handled by handing over a sufficient amount of money < 1443721160 559191 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, oh dear < 1443721163 41340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, spam is now a much smaller fraction of Internet traffic than it once was < 1443721163 383629 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm getting spam from Engineroxy and Computeroxy all the time. < 1443721174 20565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think once it was over 90%, but it fell under 50% recently < 1443721175 241694 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, never heard of them < 1443721178 166388 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Internet is for Porn! < 1443721180 198887 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well of course. with all the high resolution videos people download < 1443721186 529384 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok, just curious since the topic came up < 1443721187 115120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not because spam has slowed down, but because it's bandwidth-efficient and the bandwidth use of everything esle has gone up < 1443721188 69945 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to send so many text emails < 1443721191 117001 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"text" < 1443721222 934236 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, text and html and embedded images and trojans and malware triggering a security vulnerability, but those are generally all small < 1443721227 69597 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually get spam for rayban glasses in my gmail, about one every few weeks. < 1443721229 321851 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is about it < 1443721232 59529 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of weird < 1443721236 51532 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual malware payload is either small or is downloaded separately < 1443721254 403235 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spam emails definitely don't contain tens of gigabytes of videos < 1443721262 708336 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :inded < 1443721267 404272 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed* < 1443721278 315963 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would fill up your inbox so they couldn't send you the next spam email < 1443721305 890878 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, also gmail has a 25 MB / mail limit iirc < 1443721331 523102 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, all mail servers have some size limits < 1443721369 190603 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a hundred spam mails throughout a week, 25 MB each, is also too big < 1443721397 554935 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1443721446 631367 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you actually seen such big spam? < 1443721481 412667 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, I use a separate email for each site I register with. That way I can black list an email if it starts getting spam, also complain to the web site in question < 1443721504 446467 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, it would expend too much resources on the spammer's server as well < 1443721550 41398 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a spam opt out. Saying "I'm not this stupid, just stop sending me the bloody stuff, it is pointless" < 1443721554 310973 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't work of course < 1443721584 198351 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop reading email altogether... unfortunately, that's increasingly impractical < 1443721607 112930 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, well, as I said, I don't get much spam. Maybe one a week at most < 1443721613 740250 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it isn't much of an issue for me < 1443721680 980973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: aha, in a Conspiracy×3 tournament, you're not allowed to use boosters that weren't given to you by the tournament organizers < 1443721694 530925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that if a Beta booster gets in there somehow, it's the TO's fault < 1443721723 323052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however: "Other than basic land, only cards from the expansions of the boosters opened (and only cards opened in that player’s pool) may be used in a player’s deck." < 1443721736 206778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to imply that cards from a Beta booster are legal, if you get one into the draft somehow < 1443721771 272474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, haha, they closed it specifically: "Because it was designed specifically for multiplayer play, the use of Conspiracy boosters in sanctioned, competitive Limited-format tournaments (Sealed Deck and Booster Draft) is not permitted." < 1443721830 422272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cop-out, but I guess that works < 1443721933 341888 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443722862 530822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1443723906 584596 :^v!~^v@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443725183 321815 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443725234 841341 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1443725244 735194 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could we do for Esoteric Libraries < 1443725255 140534 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the concept of Material Measurements < 1443725789 696868 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Fish14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44568&oldid=44143 5* 0376.164.8.130 5* (+0) 10/* Movement and execution */ Moved the '#' mirror to be on the same line < 1443725871 660749 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Fish14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44569&oldid=44568 5* 0376.164.8.130 5* (+0) 10/* Literals and operators */ Made it so code blocks dont wrap < 1443726056 803591 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Material Measurements14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44570 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+1391) 10Created page < 1443726167 413451 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443726188 327600 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443726206 12874 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Material Measurements14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44571&oldid=44570 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+21) 10Removed word "metric" for tax purposes, extended words < 1443726345 466451 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1443726543 800370 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about an OO Combinatory Logic language? xD < 1443726603 767559 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Material Measurements14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44572&oldid=44571 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+3) 10Fixed a piece of code < 1443726832 976946 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have any MM ideas? < 1443727171 857492 :MDream!~fyrc@c-73-175-58-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inches are usually divided down to the 1/16th. < 1443727209 492662 :MDream!~fyrc@c-73-175-58-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1443727254 519788 :MDude!~fyrc@c-73-175-58-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been wanting to have some kind of measurement converting system, but I didn't have any measurements to use first so I didn't work on it. < 1443727408 929060 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude, hm? for what purpose? < 1443727439 749552 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just want to convert there are plenty of utilities that do that < 1443727447 432929 :MDude!~fyrc@c-73-175-58-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For just general things related to measurements? < 1443727458 364197 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude, apt-get install units? < 1443727464 426851 :MDude!~fyrc@c-73-175-58-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see your point. < 1443727466 73972 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command line < 1443727477 459991 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :for converting SI to other unit systems < 1443727490 81485 :MDude!~fyrc@c-73-175-58-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would I want a uitility when I'm talking about coding? < 1443727493 927635 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh okay < 1443727498 357755 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misunderstood you then < 1443728849 11028 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got Prealgebra working for LIME < 1443728883 639117 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1443728999 389541 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is prealgebra < 1443729079 944241 :evalj!~jeval@BC066B86.catv.pool.telekom.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1443729189 334452 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, Conspiracy always worked that. it was designed as a casual format, like Archenemy and Planechase and Commander, so it was never intended for serious tournaments. that's what they always claimed about that product from the start. < 1443729202 325748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: boring :-( < 1443729289 489621 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: still, at least Archenemy and Conspiracy and Shahrazad are officially supported by the Comprehensive rules, and can get oracle text errata, unlike un-cards and gold bordered cards < 1443729301 602015 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the gold bordered cards that aren't also printed as black bordered, that is) < 1443729360 361427 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, I was thinking about this finite but large combos thing, and I'm starting to understand why you can get large ones, though I couldn't make a combo that's as large as the ones you mentioned < 1443729397 160845 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can get a two up arrowed one, and could probably get a three up arrowed one if I tried hard enough < 1443729430 950136 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can at least imagine that you could get a five or six up arrowed one if you research and work on it carefully, though it would be very hard to avoid infinite combos < 1443729453 106863 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Djinn Illuminatus helps a lot < 1443729475 610580 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, prealgebra is usually a class in schools to teach about algebra, but in THIS case I'm using it to refer to arithmetic with variables < 1443729514 16560 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an API I designed to make Set-builder notation work well in my Set Theory editor < 1443729528 927799 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and yes, Doubling Season is a very good idea too < 1443729658 727955 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait < 1443729683 304351 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there any spell or ability that simply lets you choose a target sorcery or instant spell from the stack and copy it, without allowing you to change the targets? < 1443729740 327564 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443730050 189440 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Spitting Image looks very useful < 1443730066 184422 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because with 40 lands in your deck, you could play a single Spitting Image 40 times < 1443730071 184717 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can get each of them copied a lot < 1443730102 161298 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/play/cast/ < 1443730175 551394 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, though I'm not sure you could get it copied enough times < 1443730376 606912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: all spell copies I know also retarget the copies < 1443730409 592125 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radiate lets you start growing a bit faster than just a Twincast, but I don't think it matters much asymptotically < 1443730885 446628 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what'd be interesting? < 1443730898 125190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :a scarf made of pasta? < 1443730899 749301 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Linguistics-Centric Programming Language. < 1443730902 766018 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You win. < 1443730947 356291 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a free Mathematica for programming linguists < 1443730964 314636 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we know any linguists? < 1443731014 707958 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur? < 1443731022 423488 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1443731041 617053 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o i thought you'd gone into the Long Lurk < 1443731137 977565 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i lurk, but im always on IRC < 1443731144 693627 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and always at my computer :) < 1443731239 769575 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the simple combos are either only exponential, or infinite, or don't work < 1443731332 345153 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.... Panoptic Mirror sounds interesting < 1443731349 751877 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: what do you mean? can you elaborate? < 1443731376 958180 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have say 60 or 100 turns, you can _cast_ an instant or sorcery 60 or 100 times < 1443731378 637206 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Well first I need to find a Linguist willing to help. < 1443731381 615849 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds very useful < 1443731390 143731 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: THEN I let them talk about what they want in a language < 1443731398 553638 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just let your deck run out after 100 turns < 1443731409 873609 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: THEN I spend a few years figuring out what that stuff means and what the stuff important to that means < 1443731417 903006 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: THEN I learn C++ better < 1443731423 143802 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: THEN I make the language < 1443731436 53997 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you'd necessarily have to do them in that order < 1443731437 83441 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: well, im a linguist, and im happy to talk < 1443731441 980130 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent < 1443731449 263045 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you also do programming? < 1443731533 517760 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be pretty useful. < 1443731588 134914 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Are there any cool Linguistics words we could name this after temporarily? < 1443731597 162639 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do programming, yes < 1443731605 269931 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1443731606 381956 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: first you have to tell me what "this" is :P < 1443731606 739803 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent < 1443731612 282144 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1443731632 714727 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is, in the abstract, an attempt to make a linguistics-oriented programming language < 1443731666 410472 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of like the Wolfram language, but for Linguistics instead of Math < 1443731696 166195 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly just to see if it's possible, partially for someone to actually maybe someday use, with a hint of boredom resolution for me < 1443731716 620899 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean tho < 1443731731 10317 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Well I don't understand Linguistics enough to figure that out xD. < 1443731831 813280 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I understand it properly, it'd have built-in interfaces for creating formal grammars, for making translators between languages, etc. < 1443731837 614636 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to switch classes now < 1443731840 308220 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be back in a bit < 1443731849 786303 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do not sound contemptuous enough of wolfram language < 1443731852 359357 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nothing special < 1443731924 850947 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an idiosyncratic language with some nice symbolic manipulation features and a big standard library < 1443732035 139748 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly many cards convert damage dealt to something to that many tokens < 1443732050 14799 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you get N tokens when N damage is dealt < 1443732067 30504 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Druid's Call is probably the most versatile, unless you want to deal damage to a player < 1443732103 303351 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1443732166 112475 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443732200 396470 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nokuxohvjrqdrver QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1443732248 628044 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1443732388 330763 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1443732729 83590 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : a scarf made of pasta? <-- cooked, not cooked but fresh, or dried? < 1443732772 695987 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you even ask this < 1443732796 201269 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, because I'm trying to figure out how it would work, what sort of material properties it would have < 1443732838 827807 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't really think through the details of the pasta scarf < 1443732848 2642 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah, fair enough < 1443732852 766792 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't an exercise in worldbuilding < 1443732860 784583 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :touché < 1443732884 997115 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to construct the whole world, just the pasta scarf < 1443732893 313777 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1443732900 504648 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or were you intending for a world where pasta behaves specially? < 1443732903 531066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of culture would wear the pasta scarf though < 1443732911 115589 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's their level of food technology < 1443732919 419854 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Italian plumbers? < 1443732925 174441 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably at or beyond the making of pasta < 1443732926 883597 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the pasta scarf everyday wear or a badge of office < 1443732934 646066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, ah, of course < 1443732939 765542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :pasta because he's italian < 1443732949 610046 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf because... plumbers... always wear scarves? < 1443732961 383608 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not sure < 1443732962 996376 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I'm back < 1443732969 200617 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes Italian certainly < 1443732975 815432 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm in class, so I won't be on too much for a bit < 1443733003 537926 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway, wrt everyday or badge of office, that would depend on how practical it was, which again goes back to the material properties < 1443733044 605566 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently the Scarf Culture must be agrarian to obtain the grain needed for the scarf < 1443733062 560232 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honorary paraphernalia does not have to be as practical or durable as every day clothes < 1443733077 184925 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes < 1443733107 697769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps they are a nomadic tribe, weaving pasta scarves from the pillaged wheat of their tributaries < 1443733117 254296 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, But it could be a sort of carnival cloth, for the harvesting festival. < 1443733119 452924 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc15-croy20-2-0-cust489.croy.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443733119 630881 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc15-croy20-2-0-cust489.croy.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1443733119 630945 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1443733141 521752 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, thus it would not need to be practical as such < 1443733154 33000 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? brickbrain < 1443733154 965547 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brickbrain? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1443733156 424618 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? brickbrained < 1443733157 242502 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brickbrained? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1443733161 141258 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? brick < 1443733161 995180 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brick goes in brain. The statutory punishment for perpetrators of brainfuck derivatives. < 1443733176 926589 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: so depending on what you want, something like that might already exist < 1443733189 757804 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly xD < 1443733193 879360 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur what do you think the word for a scarf made of pasta would be < 1443733194 742049 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh, instead of shrunken heads or other trophies? That would work yes < 1443733195 654308 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably check < 1443733197 479572 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that Wolfram Lang ties into all sorts of other stuff like the whole suite of crap that Mathematica has < 1443733204 594509 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, true. < 1443733227 504135 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you might want to look into GF / Grammatical Formalism < 1443733236 19026 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't find anything < 1443733248 290640 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grammatical Formalism, by Aarne Ranta < 1443733256 361983 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a whole page, youll find it in google < 1443733306 830298 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, that was a fun exercise in creative thinking. Need to sleep now though < 1443733335 70315 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes vorpal < 1443733343 10107 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no scarf < 1443733345 44022 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :only dreams now < 1443733352 549251 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :How poetic < 1443733361 502442 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I could dream about scarfs perhaps < 1443733632 204248 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I use Duck Duck Go, and it didn't come up. Amazon was a bust too. < 1443733637 282442 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1443733670 403838 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i dont know, pasta scarft?? who knows < 1443733682 860925 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=grammatical+framework+ranta < 1443733695 587973 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.grammaticalframework.org/ < 1443733739 878816 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1443733768 596232 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I still feel like developing my own xD < 1443733774 968384 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I ask you for help when I get to that part? < 1443733837 317483 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1443733897 444394 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: i guess, but its gonna be a huge pain in the ass for you < 1443733912 612244 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im implementing something similar to Ranta's GF, for my wanna-be AI startup < 1443733974 552804 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know xD < 1443733986 12942 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not about the second part, but the first one uyes < 1443734328 32890 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be a pretty useful thing for TBGs, I suppose... < 1443734993 306595 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1443735787 371924 :evalj!~jeval@BC066B86.catv.pool.telekom.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1443735837 312842 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1443736014 754078 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1443737227 400107 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1443737291 797441 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other applied-mathematical fields could we make Programming Languages about? < 1443737312 798174 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Applied-mathematical measn things like Linguistics in this concept) < 1443737338 366264 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose operator overloading is like Ring Theory if you manually preserve closure < 1443737742 619412 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1443737757 291632 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1443738027 903143 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one define a ring syntactically < 1443738028 791249 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1443738042 448842 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-219-36.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1443738243 940993 :ineiros!~itniemin@dsl-hkibrasgw1-58c3fe-184.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1443738768 399084 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-84.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1443739540 447564 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443740605 271602 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahoy. < 1443740611 899125 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define a ring syntactically, you say? < 1443740628 994999 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that my idea of what "syntactically" means is the same as your idea. < 1443740739 827195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, variable names in many languages have the syntactic behaviour of a set < 1443740750 591914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't matter which order you define them in and you can't define them twice < 1443740782 526480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this becomes more obvious if you look at the grammar) < 1443740807 652246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although from the grammar, it looks more like a multiset, because uniqueness of names is normally implemented via freshness conditions) < 1443742129 699240 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07J--14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44573&oldid=44020 5* 03LegionMammal978 5* (+1) 10/* Hello World */ < 1443742345 840482 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, not a J derivative < 1443742939 829436 :JuanDaugherty!~juan@cpe-108-183-102-223.buffalo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1443743041 653379 :JuanDaugherty!~juan@cpe-108-183-102-223.buffalo.res.rr.com PART #esoteric :"Exeunt" < 1443743049 338356 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443743670 161097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: a language that is a derivative of itself < 1443743673 495070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not including Feather < 1443743794 442348 :MDude!~fyrc@c-73-175-58-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language whose description is itself an enlessly complex recursive document? < 1443743798 446982 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@133-171-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1443743829 704477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language that is defined as being like itself, but with exceptions, perhaps < 1443743844 300186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way that allows the entire language to be deduced via a fixed point operator < 1443743991 362111 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im home