< 1443830426 524645 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surreal numbers are weird. I read a bit about them while reading up on Go, but I can't say I got them entirely < 1443830502 475575 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], if you've not read stuff like cantor's diagonal argument you don't have much of a foundation to build on yet < 1443830562 868961 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1443830657 178721 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematical infinity comes in many forms, all of them unintuitive in some way < 1443830733 633946 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's unintuitive about the conaturals < 1443830998 795159 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they're cointuitive < 1443831014 247047 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1443831017 292865 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​07bitwimpcoin 08tftberavecoin 09cycling-boobazocoin 02galcoin 06binacoin 13umannelcoin 04bylcoin 07quitcoin 08recurecoin 09befretruccoin 02discoin 06catchalchecoin 13smithutcoin 043756coin 07procoin 08excitercoin 09adedcoin 02shamcoin 06oozlecoin 13smacoin < 1443831027 603352 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :tuitivecoin < 1443831052 743436 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only i could get a round, tuitive coin < 1443831085 611583 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :shamcoin < 1443831111 1196 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newshamcoin < 1443831126 670388 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i miss news-ham < 1443831163 742711 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: i had no idea you were into that kind of cryptography < 1443831296 564981 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1443831650 43801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "oozlecoin" the best out of those, I think < 1443831665 508488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although "quitcoin" has interesting implications < 1443831909 386030 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443832134 920138 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only cards that let you to take stuff from the sideboard can be used to remove stuff from the main game (it will end up in the library of the main game instead, I think). As far as I know you can even take stuff from the ante zone of the main game but I am not sure (although your opponent can concede the subgame if wanted; I have been told that for the purposes of conceding, no effects are considered as atomic) < 1443832190 82817 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe "quitcoin" is for people trying to do something about their cryptocoin addiction < 1443832359 395959 :draghi!~draghi@CPE-1-122-225-63.wwl9.wel.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1443832721 139745 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think I won't use the surreals in this language, I'll save that for the Sequel language xD < 1443833075 762123 :astralfish!~blabla@cm-84.213.198.234.getinternet.no QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1443833541 195467 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I should downgrade from the Surreals to the Ordinals? < 1443833738 849511 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I call my uberlang? < 1443833750 869612 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The brainfuck derivative? < 1443833883 914757 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unifuck? < 1443834060 726265 :draghi!~draghi@CPE-1-122-225-63.wwl9.wel.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol XD < 1443834133 362004 :draghi!~draghi@CPE-1-122-225-63.wwl9.wel.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF Derivative #98,000 - Ordinal Edition? < 1443834139 348107 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443835450 349936 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443835930 985116 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to kind of fuzzy match a string against a text, but i'm not interested in words that are very common and can be part of both < 1443835941 427171 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far i'm removing all the words that match the|.|..|with|and < 1443835961 249021 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :any suggestion? < 1443836035 929532 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :The information retrieval approach is to have a huge corpus, and then weight words by the inverse document frequency (df = #documents that the word appears in, in the corpus) < 1443836049 649108 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is one approach at least < 1443836070 142928 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1443836077 19270 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way "more rare" words get weighted higher, and typically those are domain-specific < 1443836078 739878 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that's the idea < 1443836097 665968 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large is a huge corpus? < 1443836099 897003 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might want to look at tf-idf weighting < 1443836117 575339 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on one's needs < 1443836136 511186 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of strings are you matching? < 1443836154 120890 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what is the context of the fuzzy match < 1443836161 878248 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know those bots that print the title of the most recent url that was posted in a channel? < 1443836189 220237 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the single most annoying feature in irc bots < 1443836201 953992 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to make one that's slightly less annoying < 1443836226 965709 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.pastebin.com/random/paste -> Pastebin.com, your friendly neighborhood pastebin site < 1443836231 148887 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ completely pointless < 1443836261 443987 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1443836263 971224 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.random-wiki-website.org/wiki/how-to-set-up-the-interwebz -> Random Wiki Website: How to set up the interwebz < 1443836269 520023 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ even moar pointless < 1443836284 739421 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will ignore a list of known pastebin sites < 1443836302 623066 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to think they were pointless, but then I started idling in a channel with a titlebot like that and now I've kinda grown to like it < 1443836315 687540 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i hate them < 1443836317 762534 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :-.- < 1443836319 512035 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least as long as they don't highlight the user posting the link < 1443836322 459126 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the worst < 1443836327 566121 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arin.ga/8rBLLA/raw thiiiis < 1443836349 704595 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :from #musl a few hours ago when i got fed up with this < 1443836360 568581 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair < 1443836391 914242 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have to guess if the title is similar enough to the url < 1443836409 155015 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :one way to avoid that amount of stupidity would be to simply keep a cache of the past few titles posted to a channel, and ignore if the string matches exactly < 1443836423 690974 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's one the to do list < 1443836479 420084 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1443836508 659791 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe do something like: lowercase both strings, strip whitespace, find the longest common subsequence between the two < 1443836525 594697 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess stripping whitespace is unnecessary < 1443836557 713245 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now i'm splitting the words, removing the trivial ones that match that regex, comparing and check if X% of words match < 1443836558 994047 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then the length of the longest common subsequence compared to the length of the string might say something about how much the title repeats the URL < 1443836571 209121 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a different approach to comparing words, though < 1443836662 746192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point in a random paste button? < 1443836694 624481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it'd be comparable to a random tweet button (does Twitter have one of those?) < 1443836836 236572 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a random paste button? < 1443836860 167733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you press it, and it shows you a random thing that has ever been pasted to a pastebin < 1443836891 297414 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you can get lucky < 1443836891 598200 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines a "random tweet" button that tweets one of those markov-chain-generated tweets that *ebooks accounts post < 1443836932 125572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does fungot have a twitter account? < 1443836932 413552 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm going to check his legs, spinning him around and shoving him in the nuts and set fire to practically everybody,' said < 1443836935 154135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I vaguely remember it does) < 1443836955 286044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fungot seems to be in a very destructive mood today < 1443836955 541975 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: banjo's big bald head turned towards her. ' not after them big red statues turned up behind me like that!' she said. < 1443836972 141902 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1443836972 321203 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld* enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1443836988 961091 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ff7 < 1443836989 178698 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ff7 (Full script of the game Final Fantasy VII) < 1443836993 966460 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1443836994 149167 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: maybe if i don't! it's inoperable!! do something about it. < 1443837002 883994 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It had one, but it hasn't been tweeting in a while. < 1443837009 336745 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I think that's what she's doing < 1443837009 516300 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: come on... the true power of mako reactor. and...... like turks! believe it. < 1443837015 892826 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you download the full script of ff7? < 1443837035 792016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably gamefaqs, there are people there who spend most of their time transcribing games < 1443837043 279020 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1443837047 836255 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun... < 1443837048 765910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ff7 is popular enough that it's likely to have been transcribed by now < 1443837058 550067 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, not just ripping the text from the ROM? < 1443837059 316257 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1443837065 446115 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like it'd be much easier < 1443837081 536001 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they often start with a text dump. < 1443837095 81260 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cheating < 1443837120 421098 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yinza.com/Fandom/Script.html < 1443837137 952420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ct is the other game script fungot has. < 1443837138 136832 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: cloud!? da-chao statue and leviathan are ashamed!! < 1443837159 696440 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ct is ...? < 1443837163 332363 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, the swiping keyboard on my phone has learned "fungot". < 1443837163 512913 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: guess i should fill the store with flowers. it'll be all right or not. that is where the knowledge of the jenova project. beautiful... lucrecia. < 1443837166 75549 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrono Trigger < 1443837181 840354 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style wp < 1443837182 18961 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages) < 1443837186 522489 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ss < 1443837186 700605 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings) < 1443837191 53800 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style oots < 1443837191 243439 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: oots (Order Of The Stick) < 1443837197 973160 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: what is this < 1443837198 158696 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: come to think that a superhero! ya can't just ignore that and skip directly. your luck, lumpy? i took. and elan took. and elan took and i many years, and i see now that it's any good? < 1443837210 417672 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A webcomic. < 1443837217 950327 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style jargon < 1443837218 128761 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive) < 1443837220 506653 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1443837220 701153 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: in my mail now. i fully expect that every action it takes 103416 bytes to your terminal. ( 3) restart the cron daemon by doing an up-front screening of potential users, it's a distributed operating system designed to run a program to do < 1443837231 308460 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1443837239 390139 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1443837239 568991 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1443837255 111740 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: any wisdom from the olden times? < 1443837255 289911 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: there are some in cl), isn't it? < 1443837257 48660 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expected that thing on esr's website < 1443837280 209228 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prods fungot again < 1443837280 646644 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: razor-x also didn't read the page i pointed you to the conclusion that you are adamant against learning anything whatsoever, earn rightfully a bad grade in the class, the object model seems to fit exactly < 1443838000 467558 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1443838002 637001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1443838032 591110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443838596 223961 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :my logs are boring < 1443838631 595472 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i extracted all the urls, removed the irrelevant ones, splitted the words, counted them < 1443838653 75931 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the result looks boring < 1443838678 896425 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :my corpus: cat .weechat/logs/* | grep -Eo 'https?://[^[:blank:]]*|www\.[^[:blank:]]*' | grep -Ev 'pastebin|codepad|wiki|youtu|arin\.ga|ideone|gist\.|sprunge|ix\.io|paste|imgur|\.(jpg|png|pdf)$' > list < 1443838687 329861 :draghi!~draghi@CPE-1-122-225-63.wwl9.wel.bigpond.net.au QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1443838706 109106 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :the analysis thingy: sed -r '/.*\/./s|.*/||; s|^(https?://)?(www\.)?||; s/\.(html|php)$//' list | tr -sc A-Za-z '\n' | grep -wEv 'the|.|..|with|an[dy]' | sort | uniq -c | sort -n < 1443838838 383617 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :495 linux 516 vim 794 awk 800 bash :\ < 1443838895 773965 :PilotMan!~IceChat9@187.193.92.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443838909 821750 :PilotMan!~IceChat9@187.193.92.195 PART :#esoteric < 1443838936 905686 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i do have 5 sexy 9 sex < 1443839453 923165 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i'm into cryptography? < 1443839529 606981 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know, are you? < 1443839627 483838 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exessively so.. i know a little.. enough to be dangerous, but luckily enough to not try to do it on my own < 1443839676 891660 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are you into newshamcoin < 1443839708 798806 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont hold any ecurrencies < 1443839730 201689 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once bought $100 in btc and sold some for $800 or so, and gave the rest to my brother < 1443839792 367532 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was worth $20k or so at one point? < 1443840399 709009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1443840498 316363 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443841273 348996 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seem like complicated and does not deal with non-HTTP URLs. (It is also possible for a URI to not be used to point to anything, although I suppose that is rare.) < 1443841449 345009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : How does one define a ring syntactically <-- it's a variety of algebras, which is defined by a set of operators and equations, which is pretty syntactic as math goes < 1443841488 305959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a + b = b + a, a + (-a) = 0, a + 0 = a, a + (b + c) = (a + b) + c well that's the group part < 1443841534 358296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*abelian group < 1443841587 837026 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a * (b * c) = (a * b) * c, a * 1 = a, 1 * a = a, a * (b + c) = (a * b) + (a * c), (a + b) * c = (a * c) + (b * c) < 1443841607 733625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 part sometimes considered optional < 1443841676 434590 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does one define a banana phone syntactically < 1443841714 538619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss news-ham < 1443841722 100814 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is news-ham? < 1443841741 628787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a bot, that IIRC output news headlines to the channel every now and then < 1443841750 434140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was just created as a pun on "newsham" < 1443841755 82519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well you start with 7 rings and a swatter... -----### < 1443841766 19620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :did newsham have to do with it? < 1443841785 735112 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@news < 1443841786 192241 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sequence not found. < 1443841798 231459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i think that corrected to @oeis < 1443841811 471779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's only two letters out < 1443841821 351735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely think elliott made news-ham < 1443841824 647528 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1443841850 947130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might have done something else too, but I can't remember what < 1443841864 146516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also miss elliott < 1443841905 633764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the channel was frequently offtopic back then, even more so than now I think < 1443841918 281849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1] has dragged it ontopic a good proportion of the time, which I find to be a really good thing < 1443841941 339528 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuy < 1443842062 16741 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :See if you make Magic: the Gathering puzzles involving split second < 1443842136 914254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: make it involve morph to counter the split second! < 1443842163 661899 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Of course that is one thing, but there is many other thing to do. < 1443842254 474918 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other thing though in some cases you might be able to do triggered abilities that now cannot be triggered due to split second, and then possibly you have to counter the spell with the split second anyways < 1443842419 190675 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea would be puzzle that the solution change very different based on a few variations such as whose turn it is or what version of the rules is being played, or the timestamps of objects < 1443842691 144303 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH PRIVMSG #esoteric :So lets say someone has written a BF interpreter and compiler, and has written an interpreter for their own language which is super simple (can just split it by :'s and execute easily), what would be a good language to write an interpreter or compiler for that would teach something new, but not me too difficult of a project? < 1443842719 850819 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Listening to a side-by-side comparison of Unison vs... whatver the heck I installed on here. Unison is winning < 1443842722 871379 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did I ever abandon it < 1443842746 63224 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443842771 646222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JesseH: you're looking for a language to implement that isn't too hard, but is more difficult in terms of parsing and/or semantics? < 1443842791 724365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language are you writing in? (this affects my choice of answer) < 1443842874 84613 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Excuse me if the question sounds dumb, but I'm looking for something that wouldn't take a month, hopefully just a day or two, and still teach me something new about parsing and what not. I'd probably want to write it in Lua, JavaScript, or PHP, as those are the languages I'm currently working with. < 1443842881 445968 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll suggest underload since ais523 might feel too biased to do it hth < 1443842894 603182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was going to suggest Underload, but based on what JesseH's saying I think it'd be too easy < 1443842900 211975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1443842911 133730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the languages he's mentioned have the primitives Underload needs already < 1443842940 891987 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTE, then? < 1443842953 923453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forte would work well, yes < 1443842990 140436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JesseH: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Forte < 1443843000 866191 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check that one out. :-) < 1443843002 832023 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks guys. < 1443843239 63612 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mana abilities can also be use while spell with split-second is on the stack, as well as morph, and some mana abilities have other effects too (such as sacrifice or damage or discarding), and you could have triggers based on any of these things, so you could potentially do many things with this, possibly though in an otherwise more complicated puzzle involving other things too, split-second is just one part of them < 1443843759 101066 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443843798 487260 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... has anyone started on an Esoteric Widget Toolkit yet? < 1443843843 667916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What's the right channel for all the non-esoteric things you talk about in here? < 1443843848 433221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so (unless you count Gammaplex, or was it Deltaplex? which is a bit different) < 1443843858 559327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sadly, probably here < 1443843864 373962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric-offtopic was used at some point < 1443843888 595275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my complaint's more about absence of ontopic conversation, rather than presence of offtopic conversation < 1443843889 457159 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :⚢ < 1443843911 937335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to find (some of) the offtopic conversation more interesting. < 1443843944 325499 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Perhaps Omegaplex? < 1443843960 511127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't want to make the channel worse for you, so I wonder what I should be doing. < 1443843979 442244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: aha, could be < 1443843988 470662 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or zetaplex < 1443843996 249043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some greek letter, anyway < 1443844010 861875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the offtopic conversation (that we have nowadays, at least) rarely offends me < 1443844025 225172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just when this channel isn't discussing esolangs, I don't really have much of a reason to be here < 1443844038 877017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because similar offtopic conversations (on similar topics) can be held in half the channels I'm in < 1443844068 414102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fwiw, there's quite a user overlap between the channels I'm in too < 1443844077 923321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should just make a social channel for that overlap < 1443844105 802123 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'm in any of those channels. < 1443844125 675297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah just make a schedule for switching the discussion from channel to channel stwh < 1443844126 151934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I used to be in some NetHack channels. < 1443844133 820510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: this is the only channel you share with me, right < 1443844144 519690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what does the 's' stand for? < 1443844152 686835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you can guess < 1443844163 730944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can guess the other three! < 1443844171 720959 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need to creep on ais523 more. :P < 1443844174 802655 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely now you can guess < 1443844182 68706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: thanks < 1443844196 890675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I seem to have got into an argument on Reddit about whether anything in the real world can be TC, and if not, whether we should just use "TC" to mean bounded-storage machines < 1443844218 527316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: huh, you're in #tasvideos? < 1443844220 973822 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a language called GUFunge ("Goo-funj"). It would be like Befunge with GUI support. < 1443844224 879898 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone feel like helping? < 1443844226 796994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked to see which channels we shared but didn't expect that one, for some reason < 1443844231 23182 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As of like two weeks ago; I mostly lurk. < 1443844239 423312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: why don't you add a GUI fingerprint to Befunge 98? < 1443844242 978844 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pft, at least get into that argument in the real world, rather than on reddit < 1443844246 601160 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't do TASing but I've lurked tasvideos for freaking ages. < 1443844247 597832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you'll be compatible with all the existing programs < 1443844263 473403 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh right. We can do that. xD < 1443844270 589308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: fair enough; computer games are an esolang, after all < 1443844286 516339 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I had an idea for part of an EsoGUI toolkit. Specifically, for the geometry manager < 1443844313 296696 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is an esolang? < 1443844350 403932 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's an archaic term for an Esolang < 1443844370 386528 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a definition broad enough to include computer games is broad enough to include... < 1443844374 438420 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe offtopic should be allowed on this channel too, but ontopic should have priority in case there is interference that someone complain about < 1443844380 955623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote What is an esolang? shachaf: It's an archaic term for an Esolang < 1443844383 125910 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1256) What is an esolang? shachaf: It's an archaic term for an Esolang < 1443844388 849318 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: FWIW many computer games are TC in esoteric ways. < 1443844390 374591 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuy < 1443844393 447358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is craizly philosophical < 1443844394 410988 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got quoted < 1443844405 579932 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sure, but being TC isn't a requirement for a language either. < 1443844411 149816 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats hppavilion[1]'s E down to size -----### < 1443844419 302227 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1443844432 30172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that being TC is a sufficient condition for being a language, although not a necessary one < 1443844432 265518 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just remembered an idea I had around when I first joined this channel... < 1443844457 248589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that if something is a programming language, but not intended to be a usable programming language or a target for compilation into < 1443844460 161407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's an esolang < 1443844467 802045 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Which is what? < 1443844474 115778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, some languages which /are/ intended to be a target for compilation into are also esolangs < 1443844475 814188 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus Pokemon is a neat esolang. < 1443844477 869056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. Underlambda tier 1) < 1443844481 164500 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Typing -_- < 1443844502 544858 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Queue Messenger System. It'd be a fun little `quote-like system where you can "&sendmsg " to send enqueue a message and "&getmsg" to get a message out. < 1443844517 212988 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally, it'd get really, REALLY long. < 1443844522 648237 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are other conditions for being a language? < 1443844534 586276 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think Pokemon in particular is a great example because the ACE is fairly easily done by a knowledgeable human being.) < 1443844551 439897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think esolangs (by this sort of definition) which aren't intended to be esolangs I'd probably find more interesting. < 1443844557 581878 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Implementable, barring memory limitations? < 1443844576 925056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, one class of esolangs is "languages intended to point out incorrect assumptions in definitions of a language" < 1443844589 961307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like Minimum or Unnecessary is normally considered an esolang < 1443844601 932614 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what do you guys think of &sendmsg? < 1443844602 530609 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you can make general-purpose computation with stuff that was never intended to do so, then it might be of interest < 1443844603 365195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't really have much in common with languages, and even less with programming < 1443844608 185514 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and &getmsg? < 1443844621 350294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: well, it's basically just a queue < 1443844627 699022 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Some esolangs are uncomputable; we have the category of it in esolang wiki < 1443844632 375115 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well yes. It is. A MESSAGING queue < 1443844644 16195 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But those aren't, in the traditional sense, languages < 1443844652 135258 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes what he just said and where he said it < 1443844654 445046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: hmm, you mean as something that the channel does? < 1443844655 583305 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms < 1443844670 469731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably write a queue into HackEgo < 1443844676 256613 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. Exactly. < 1443844680 763546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think `quote might be more interesting < 1443844687 569028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps we could resurrect optbot < 1443844692 323541 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ templates are a pretty humorous example of an esolang. < 1443844703 2875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when you mentioned optbot's name, it repeated a random past line from the channel) < 1443844705 694517 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I COULD, OR I could write my own bot entirely < 1443844714 583027 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a tad bit depressing that people use it, but still. < 1443844716 137376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: no, I mean reimplement optbot's functionality < 1443844723 621728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way people wouldn't have to remember to put messages in < 1443844732 846931 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thank god work bans that sort of "clever" shit) < 1443844736 277571 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I could do that too < 1443844739 373051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could still get messages out < 1443844751 468870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's fine if people use it with the intention of it being an esolang < 1443844762 179851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the use in Boost I'm less certain about < 1443844767 797498 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1443844770 651249 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do that, but it doesn't preserve the "Letter to the Future" aspect < 1443844772 314471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I think of it like an unsafe block from Rust, I can live with it < 1443844783 481861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote you use @tell < 1443844784 238915 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :496) monqy: help how do I use lambdabot to send messages to people. [...around half an hour later...] @messages quicksilver said 1y 2m 18d 19h 54m 29s ago: you use @tell < 1443844787 43644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: ^ < 1443844809 272597 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google's policy on Boost in particular amuses me. < 1443844817 973403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what is it? < 1443844818 151928 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a short whitelist of parts of Boost you may use. < 1443844835 866917 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those being ones they've evaluated as not sucking. < 1443844845 779793 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting... < 1443844892 942353 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I'm likely to do much C++ at Google, but I was a bit curious and read through the style guide a bit more thoroughly. < 1443844900 270386 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX probably kind of is intended for some general-purpose programming, but for doing things that are not much related to typesetting, the code can be a bit strange. Actually even if it is, such as if you are sorting an index, the code can be a bit strange since previously external programs would probably have been used instead. < 1443844906 495373 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll make my own bot, and perhaps add that functionality < 1443844907 165610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: another thing you can do is send messages to people's alternate nicks when they aren't online < 1443844925 668567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a fun way to do a "message to the future" < 1443844944 190026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the use of the alternate nick means that there's likely to be quite some delay before it's actually received) < 1443844948 682282 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes some sense... < 1443844961 793026 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like the "Message to the Future from the Past of Esolangs" concept < 1443844975 487425 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you add a program into HackEgo to do? < 1443844992 336252 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps make it a priority queue where priority of enqueued messages goes down as time progresses < 1443844999 18650 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So older messages come out first < 1443845007 991799 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like programs that store things in HackEgo transiently because it messes up the commit history. < 1443845008 625755 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unsustainable, sure, but it'd be interesting < 1443845019 873629 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if there was an uncommitted filesystem. < 1443845098 475291 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what'd be an intersting IRC thing? < 1443845106 657133 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUI IRC messages < 1443845117 330335 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT would be awesome < 1443845224 324527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I see half the things hppavilion[1] says and get annoyed because I don't like the ideas, and then realise it's my own assumptions that need re-evaluating < 1443845231 922971 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chess over IRC would be cool. < 1443845234 164417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs are all about violating assumptions, much like art < 1443845240 280091 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1443845244 125974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'd have come up with http://esolangs.org/wiki/90 otherwise < 1443845258 947836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess over IRC is totally doable, btw, although I haven't played chess in ages < 1443845263 40106 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1443845265 206699 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13datergivcoin 04quccoin 07miscoin 08synoecoin 09ediumcoin 02genorfcoin 06brighfivecoin 13datiocoin 04carmcoin 07catchanilcoin 08bfcucoin 09superdcoin 02tobeliancoin 06edwardcoin 13woodcoin 04halcoin 07kimlcoin 08betacoin 09phistcoin 02habeiotcoin < 1443845267 394850 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is xD < 1443845276 904858 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe #esoteric-style Chess? < 1443845284 132221 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :EsoChess, if you will < 1443845304 991060 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[079014]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44584&oldid=44523 5* 03Ais523 5* (+17) 10add year category < 1443845309 810416 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With much unicoding and things < 1443845320 299066 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess with cryptographically precommitted moves 2 turns in advance < 1443845322 693904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: zzo38 has invented a ton of esoteric chess variants, I think < 1443845337 532060 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A violation of the basic metarules of chess? Yes. Do I care? No. < 1443845342 20607 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Have you? < 1443845363 237878 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps an exploration game, much like Dwarf Fortress. But chessier < 1443845386 589127 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably shouldn't do it over IRC though, now that I consider it < 1443845393 104324 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT would be a bad idea < 1443845408 724971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely remembers a game called ChessRogue < 1443845418 172267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've never played it, I only know it by reputation < 1443845441 516602 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knightmare was an interesting idea, certainly. < 1443845454 209161 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I go start my EsoChess RPG? < 1443845459 436400 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing? < 1443845488 617639 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably limit it to a 16x16 board < 1443845489 558046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're anything like me, you'll end up starting a lot of projects and not finishing them < 1443845490 677544 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At most < 1443845493 577112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a good way to avoid becoming bored < 1443845496 975835 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Already did that < 1443845505 889391 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got boring, so I did it on the meta level < 1443845508 90148 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you encrypt a string containing a chess move like "pawn to a3 capture" < 1443845520 763917 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and send it to your enemy < 1443845535 538969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: what happens if your intended move was illegal? < 1443845544 269384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of things your opponent did in between? < 1443845547 174192 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1443845561 160939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could just lose the game, in which case the entire point of the game could be trying to win by invalidating your opponent's planned move < 1443845567 431655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :checks would be very powerful in that regard < 1443845570 244778 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Each client keeps a record of moves and terminates the game if the enemy cheats < 1443845584 681687 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that could work < 1443845604 2975 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you use a client that attempts to cheat, then you lose the game < 1443845618 654436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: \oren\'s idea is that you have to commit to moves in advance < 1443845621 352078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not exactly cheating < 1443845624 564437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but making a promise you're unable to keep < 1443845634 162664 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting... < 1443845640 362657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call that "cheating", but it does seem like a dubious operation < 1443845698 203587 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good clients would, of course, check ahead of time that you don't make an invalid move so you don't lose. REALLY good clients make this disablable for hardcore players < 1443845744 298738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: no, say it starts 1. e4 (committing to e5) c5 2. e5, that's fine < 1443845758 503579 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got what \oren\ was saying. < 1443845768 262382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but after 1. e4 (commiting to e5) e5, White can't play e5 now even though they committed to it < 1443845772 192823 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just listing off my own, technical specs for an unrelated game < 1443845776 483663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1443845784 785123 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I did invent many chess variant, many of which I have never put into the computer yet < 1443845789 100701 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some just ideas < 1443845795 648375 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1443845809 951869 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. so you send an encypted move to your enemy, then on you next turn you send him the password for it, so he can decrpyt it < 1443845814 206474 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any `wisdom on the subject such that I may make my own strange chess? < 1443845865 723697 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if there are any wisdom files about it < 1443845866 790584 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I call my n*n chess variant? < 1443845874 189025 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ` was a joke < 1443845891 660481 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might make it as large as 32*32, or even 64*64 < 1443845905 784967 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm suffering from severe psychosis < 1443845929 110631 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? chess < 1443845929 858716 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chess is a complex boardgame, where players exchange unclear royal steaks until they decide which of them has lost. The game is recorded through the Gringmuth Moving Pineapple Notation. < 1443845954 606303 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what should my chess be called? < 1443845962 361948 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented a game that is designed to be as different from chess as possible while still being the same as chess. For one thing it is one-dimensional, it has different armies, you can use a deck of cards, etc. < 1443845974 397384 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa. < 1443845999 330510 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the rules should be made by this channel, and be designed for esotericness (what else?). < 1443846055 435141 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443846055 724931 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443846058 510028 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another chess variant I made up is based on the limitations of Famicom PPU < 1443846086 495903 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Hppavilion1/Unnamed Chess Variant14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44585 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+178) 10Initialized Page < 1443846101 794932 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps Floating-point chess? < 1443846133 795647 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you could try to make up such a thing < 1443846165 497406 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll make a collection of Pythonic chess clients that we can play over sockets. If anyone wants to play, they'll be on GitHub. < 1443846190 943815 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you have any suggestions for the main variant? < 1443846207 45166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: really you should just ask zzo38, who is way better at esochess than I am < 1443846225 370461 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Sigh* < 1443846255 915714 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What are the main features I should add? Weird board? Weird pieces? Strange extra parts of the ruleset? < 1443846269 248828 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll start with a 3D chess < 1443846345 122709 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them. < 1443846357 559565 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to invent a card game < 1443846364 578680 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that uses only regular cards < 1443846376 640419 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is cooperative. < 1443846381 900888 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :semicooperative < 1443846392 800336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you define "semicooperative"? < 1443846414 154037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are of course 1-player cooperative card games already (the "patience" family), which might lead to a starting point < 1443846421 621857 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit. Unicode doesn't have any nonstandard chess symbols. Guess ⚧ will be a piece xD < 1443846448 507616 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri_(card_game) this is a good starting point < 1443846457 850966 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :semi-cooperative means competitive/cooperative < 1443846459 107490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most nonstandard chess pieces I've seen use regular chess symbols < 1443846461 469556 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try the chess font I made for "TeX Chess" < 1443846471 961675 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one has many nonstandard chess symbols included < 1443846473 998820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main exception is "unicorn", which is normally drawn using the symbol for a knight but with an extra horn < 1443846521 395685 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This font is intended for printing though, and might not be as good for use on screen) < 1443846581 687477 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The font I made (as well as the TeX Chess macro package, which also supports many variants and not only FIDE) is: http://zzo38computer.org/tex/texchess.zip < 1443846584 170940 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably implement normal chess first xD < 1443846589 435398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Tri looks interesting < 1443846621 319560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I suspect it could be "broken" via agreeing on entirely conventional meanings for the first few discards < 1443846737 363586 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But that's cheating < 1443846751 410231 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to play shogi? < 1443846764 987656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: is it, though, if you agree that before the game? < 1443846774 834650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I did once, but can't remember all the details < 1443846841 206375 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1443846848 386095 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know, it's kinda sad. I want tea right now, but I accidentally bought decaf. < 1443846875 29583 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still gonna make some, but it's not going to make me quite as happy. < 1443846880 866311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually looking at contract bridge quite a bit recently < 1443846887 36261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it reminded me of Rubicon < 1443846894 985330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and esoprogramming in general < 1443846911 816152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that game you're trying to communicate a bunch with your partner via a prearranged protocol over a very low-bandwidth channel < 1443846966 74021 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decaf black tea is definitely not the best. < 1443846974 326364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays Bridge has a rule that you have to tell your opponents what protocol you're using < 1443846987 862989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that particularly complex/unusual ones are banned in lower-level tournaments < 1443847022 839287 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sad < 1443847088 124891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does? < 1443847098 993142 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't played Bridge in ~15 years, I don't remember much. < 1443847210 174314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are all sorts of charts about which conventions are too complicated (different ones in the US and UK) < 1443847221 127722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been slowly trying to design a Bridge protocol to skirt the edges of them < 1443847231 449230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while making close to the best possible use of bandwidth < 1443847234 257658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, convention < 1443847367 879579 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know much about Famicom PPU? < 1443847911 573864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know only a very small amount < 1443847915 816800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than zero, but not by much < 1443847928 272960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can draw four sprites and a background, right? < 1443847935 318769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :…that's about the extent of my knowledge < 1443848002 36275 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually you can have up to 64 sprites < 1443848035 112698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :onscreen at the same time? < 1443848046 780689 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1443848068 484456 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only 8 sprites per scanline though; any more will not be drawn on that scanline < 1443848415 303649 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-asqihlkfhawuqjwh JOIN :#esoteric < 1443848558 349179 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443848558 972760 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote glurg < 1443848559 835255 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1443848565 127365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote glug < 1443848565 974878 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1443848569 918506 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1443848587 369835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote glu < 1443848588 469185 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :274) A priori one cannot say that post hoc ergo propter hoc the diminishing returns would give; yet under quid pro quo one can agglutinate fabula and sujet into vagrancies untold. See? I'm intellectual. \ 680) * Phantom_Hoover moves 0.5 Phantom_Hoover into the Atlantic, and captures fizzie's upper body with 0.5 Phantom_Hoover. < 1443848596 790324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 680 < 1443848597 778089 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :680) * Phantom_Hoover moves 0.5 Phantom_Hoover into the Atlantic, and captures fizzie's upper body with 0.5 Phantom_Hoover. Glurk. < 1443848669 780738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: that's from the continuous chess variant we once discussed here < 1443848685 698629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, possibly, the Atlantic part. < 1443848701 82316 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1443848711 981704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok vaguely based. < 1443848739 73823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a piece covered a square and you could move only parts of it < 1443848757 855421 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but longer < 1443848798 753541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i'm not sure if you could move two half-pieces in one move or the like < 1443848813 531379 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Category:Non-sexual14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44586 5* 0366.58.231.93 5* (+89) 10Created page with "This category lists all languages that are not, in some way, relevant to human sexuality." < 1443848838 820030 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1443848840 783022 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1443848892 663457 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02Category:Non-sexual10]]": unapproved category < 1443848903 575904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that was trolling < 1443848915 526913 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn you beat me by a second < 1443848916 319679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for now, let's delete it with an iron-clad deletion reason and see what happens < 1443848933 261639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my reason was "Do I really need a reason" < 1443849047 887584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Whois] hppavilion[1] is ~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net (realname) < 1443849058 369151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a coincidence of IP there… < 1443849067 370307 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1443849071 152143 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs for the door < 1443849078 833882 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, it just had to be done. < 1443849084 743333 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't help myself < 1443849093 810117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's OK < 1443849096 472351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't do it again < 1443849104 505079 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn and i had almost concluded that could be hagb4rd < 1443849132 972413 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That satisfies my biannual (every 2 years, not twice a year) random troll. I'm done for now. < 1443849133 191348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I was checking to see if the IP was a known troll because I thought it might be something much worse < 1443849139 872272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily it wasn't < 1443849143 886550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait silly < 1443849161 702509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had two different whois checks in my terminal window and scrolled up too far < 1443849248 930342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other wasn't hagb4rd either, just german, i'd forgotten about it. < 1443849333 518588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: you are forgiven http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050606 < 1443849644 792156 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Blind14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44587&oldid=21436 5* 03Ais523 5* (+575) 10/* Computational class */ is TC; the simplest way is to encode a cellular automaton < 1443849650 53440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just proved a language TC < 1443849670 409531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I made actual esolanging progress today, always good to see < 1443849728 698695 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The concept of an "Orphaned WikiPage list" is kind of paradoxical < 1443849873 42996 :doesthiswork1!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1443849962 739791 :MDude!~fyrc@c-73-175-58-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDream < 1443849962 954762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: the trick is that it's not made of wikilinks, but of ordinary HTML links < 1443849971 628564 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh < 1443850661 297701 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wait, what's "Something much worse" < 1443850662 531365 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1443850684 60352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: something much worse than you messing around, that is < 1443850687 386857 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1443850707 275080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first thought was "I wonder if this is someone who we banned from esowiki in the past, editing logged out to dodge the ban" < 1443850834 904090 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1443850875 375800 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I fork something in an Organization as a new thing on GitHub? < 1443850882 956259 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that bad practice and I should use branches? < 1443851710 958229 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So to repeat an idea I brought up earlier to see if it's of any interest: GUI over IRC < 1443851749 926017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: my experience with github is that branches save a lot of trouble compared to forks < 1443851755 717178 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1443851762 513375 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got distracted from that anyway xD < 1443851773 38860 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like GUI today. Have you noticed? < 1443851779 261306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in actual git their mostly equivalent, but github screws up its fork handling for organizations really badly < 1443851781 427144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1443851822 921140 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1443851846 970126 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to see a way for people to communicate via GUIs < 1443851860 616561 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't that be an interesting form of communication? Probably useless, but... < 1443851897 235095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you just use a GUI IRC client? < 1443851900 947043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean something else? < 1443851904 174628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ever seen MS Comic Chat?) < 1443851987 212270 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: When I say GUI over IRC, I mean that the /messages/ can include GUI < 1443852022 673326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean graphics? < 1443852034 497221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUI has a specific meaning (a user interface that uses graphics for communication) < 1443852035 874181 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No. I mean GUI. < 1443852042 701968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sending user interfaces over IRC doesn't make a whole lot of sense < 1443852047 316835 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like widgets and shit < 1443852048 781162 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1443852049 335668 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1443852049 701647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you wanted to, say, tunnel X over IRC < 1443852050 685583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :with each message, you send a user interface to the other party which replaces their irc client < 1443852057 54672 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have to use that ui to respond to you < 1443852061 629968 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be interesting... < 1443852089 673135 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comic chat looks cool < 1443852098 670820 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That gives me an idea. Esoteric IRC client < 1443852165 871594 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you just said is a good example. < 1443852201 725194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Go idiom where you send a message over a channel that includes a channel to send a response over. < 1443852204 330422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I was planning an esoteric IRC client once < 1443852217 323425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the features was that you could swap nicks with someone else < 1443852220 994676 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa < 1443852228 270046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the server or anyone else in the room knowing < 1443852229 430565 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC games should be a thing < 1443852237 639023 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imma go over to #esoteric-games < 1443852239 784245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technically, it worked via getting each of the client to post messages for the other) < 1443852263 972249 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course xD < 1443852290 674826 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other features would be fun to mess with people with? < 1443852293 724071 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess maybe that's also a pi calculus idiom. < 1443852307 324557 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that got convoluted and slow very quickly < 1443852315 903878 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's also a pi calculus idiom? < 1443852319 628672 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's pi calculus? < 1443852320 236570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was never actually implemented < 1443852325 401887 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's an idiom, while we're at it < 1443852332 329045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi calculus is sort-of a concurrency version of lambda calculus < 1443852347 474462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. that models concurrency rather than functions) < 1443852347 652810 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1443852368 666621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an idiom is a phrase or other short sequence that has taken on a meaning of its own < 1443852381 735943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is used directly without really thinking about the constituent parts < 1443852397 565746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a moderately common idiom in C is the !! operator, which casts integer to boolean < 1443852406 632128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's really two not operators, but people think of it as a unit) < 1443852524 753675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in natural language, idioms often make no sense when you look at their constituent words < 1443852541 530579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in programming language, it has to be at least correct enough that the compiler understands < 1443852679 298406 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Ruby, "x while y" means "while y; x; end", and "begin x end" means the same as "x", but "begin x end while y" means "x; while y; x; end" < 1443852714 406782 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C and some other program language you can use macros though < 1443852742 70049 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have used !! in C as well as in JavaScript codes and some other programming languages; it is not only for C < 1443852796 802529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's similar to Perl, where "x while y;" means "while (y) {x};", and "do {x}" is equivalent to "x" if "x" is an expression, but "do {x} while y;" means "x; while (y) {x};" < 1443852852 173094 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone feel like developing their own little free Wolfram-like language over the next 40 years, and making it FOSS just as a middle finger to the people who thought it was a good idea to make a proprietary programming language? < 1443852862 371657 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Forte is looking interesting. < 1443852873 203326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Probably inspired by that. < 1443852874 782518 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], Hell to the yeah. < 1443852895 354383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: well Wolfram's language itself is pretty terrible, to be fair < 1443852904 861035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only redeeming feature is the library it's normally shipped with < 1443852920 757004 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I do think it is good idea to make up a free stuff like that yes. But it can even be a better kind of program too < 1443852921 806178 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: True. I don't trust any language that includes non-ascii characters builtin < 1443852922 670345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I suspect took a huge amount of effort < 1443852936 978817 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I was thinking of a case where something used to be an idiom with a meaning in a language, but then the constructs it was made of were changed, but it was kept around as a special case. < 1443852958 328519 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That library is pretty amazing though. I mean, blurring faces in <20 lines of code is impressive. < 1443852979 370894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a library can do anything, really < 1443852992 230882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what proportion of useful things you can do that you care about < 1443853003 695615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written a library that simulates NetHack games, you can use it with a few lines of code < 1443853010 367048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't do anything else < 1443853019 389721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what about that XOR EAX, EAX thing < 1443853030 226209 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly reason to make FOSS Wolfram-like language so that you can run the same program on both < 1443853030 995536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's an example. < 1443853063 410505 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of want to develop a language for this though < 1443853074 96245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but "xor eax, eax" zeroes rax under x86_64 semantics without a special case < 1443853095 408692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about nop? < 1443853098 588084 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that making a language that complex that doesn't use non-ascii characters is a bit absurd < 1443853099 302120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um that was the point? < 1443853104 920987 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :While still being readable < 1443853106 305561 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's supposed to be xchg eax, eax, isn't it? < 1443853126 996006 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i may have misremembered what the special case was < 1443853146 595755 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the IDE adds characters like that for you... < 1443853151 310376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I thought the point you were trying to make was that a special case was added just so that you could zero well < 1443853162 692816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I was thinking about possibly there might be something to do with nop < 1443853168 584877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1443853175 878508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can put a bunch of addressing modes on nop in order to make it longer < 1443853185 273725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but putting addressing modes on xchg eax, eax would cause problems < 1443853195 891164 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A SQLite extension to access various data such as weather and so on a bit similarly to Mathematica might be a good idea in my opinion < 1443853196 816720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchg eax, (eax) means something quite different (and doesn't have a corresponding opcode, I think) < 1443853198 274324 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 0x90 doesn't mean xchg eax, eax anymore in x86-64 < 1443853204 446215 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since that would zero the upper 32 bits. < 1443853210 38438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right < 1443853236 817184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is the expert in 0x90, I guess. < 1443853238 297601 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I now have to actualize my goal xD) I want to develop a fully-functional, high-level language, with as powerful tools as Mathematica and the like, just because I'm stuck in mind-numbing boredom. I have no clue how to do this, and am horribly underqualified, but dammit I want to. < 1443853281 209007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the idiomatic way to truncate rax to 32 bits in x86_64? (not that it's likely to be a very useful operation in most cases, I'm just curious) < 1443853300 496687 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe mov eax, eax? < 1443853335 909514 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, xor eax, eax is implemented as a special case in CPUs, even if its behavior isn't special-cased. < 1443853363 235723 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it doesn't depend on the value of eax, unlike other uses of xor. < 1443853364 394950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does "xor ebx, ebx" have an encoding? < 1443853371 753090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not xor < 1443853373 314548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchg < 1443853441 531534 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it's 87 db < 1443853498 795722 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In x86-64 xchg eax, eax is encoded as 87 c0 < 1443853565 946309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, so there was a "short encoding" for certain xchg commands, but also a general one < 1443853636 136603 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess 87 c0 also encodes xchg eax, eax in x86-32, but assemblers just don't generate it. < 1443853660 59104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason to do so would be for alignment purposes < 1443853671 528268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most assemblers don't align via generating inefficient encodings, but rather by adding nops < 1443853685 832448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alignment padding on x86_64 is hilarious < 1443853687 851430 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchg eax, eax is a nop in x86-32 < 1443853694 40163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you start with nop and pile on as many modifiers as you can < 1443853699 527408 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have a bunch of tools set up to look at things like this but I don't anymore. < 1443853719 261903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you can give data16 multiple times < 1443853727 801267 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a collection of fastest nops for each size for each CPU in Linux somewhere. < 1443853731 750463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make arbitrarily long commands (although I suspect there's a limit) < 1443853742 723554 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't x86 instructions limited to 10 bytes or so? < 1443853745 496122 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember. < 1443853910 336296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64 clearly has a higher limit than that, although I'm not sure of the precise value < 1443853941 70888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 would make sense (to allow alignment on 16-byte boundaries) < 1443854699 426703 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1443854806 673935 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... no one wants to help in the design of my FOSS counter-wolfram lang? < 1443855038 728698 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall a limit of 15, too. < 1443855120 659901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: we're just really busy < 1443855126 339766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a ton of things I'd like to help with but I don't have time < 1443855131 177922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or mental energy < 1443855138 760066 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know a lot about Mathematica though, so I cannot say. But, I have suggested SQLite extensions which could substitute for some of the data-access stuff such as weather and countries and chemistry and whatever, and then another extension could be used to plot the data on the graph. < 1443855162 438460 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1443855181 320201 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1443855295 35531 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish we could all timewarp xD < 1443856883 284256 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1443856905 902243 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1443857401 130168 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you know the hex version of assembly code? < 1443857512 311418 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you need to know them for writing compilers or what? < 1443857756 205292 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1443857897 167784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: you need to know it when writing assemblers, and it also matters if for some reason the number of bytes that one command assembles to matters (which it did, kind-of, in this conversation) < 1443857924 380368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also stating the encoding of a command is a decent way to prove that there /is/ such an encoding < 1443858065 145239 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't really call that a proof... < 1443858811 735390 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` o=$(tempfile -s .o); echo 'add $1, %eax' | as -o $o - && objdump -d $o | grep '0:' | sed -e 's/\t/ /g;s/ */ /g;' # possible HackEgo command here < 1443858812 670517 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ 0: 83 c0 01 add $0x1,%eax < 1443858816 485335 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real reason is that true programmer geeks soak up numbers like sponges hth (disclaimer: not a true programmer geek) < 1443858838 281886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly get rid of the 0: too. < 1443858923 602999 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i understand that but i can't see how one can ever be exposed to that < 1443858969 520587 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i realize that it may sound like an accusation, but i'm really just curious < 1443858975 129693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm-mc is one of the tools I was thinking of. < 1443858987 202765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And udcli is another one. < 1443859156 489590 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what is that tempfile command? it's not in the arch repos < 1443859261 308014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of a package called debianutils, here. < 1443859578 872909 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference with mktemp? :\ < 1443859743 421486 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tempfile is deprecated; you should use mktemp(1) instead." < 1443861200 790951 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-asqihlkfhawuqjwh QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1443861986 314449 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443862848 598849 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-206-90.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1443864490 295932 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443866300 98496 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1443866777 410468 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1443866777 626612 :jameseb!~jameseb_@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1443866784 429875 :jameseb!~jameseb_@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1443866906 309744 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io JOIN :#esoteric < 1443867374 512939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: lunch < 1443869055 273044 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1443869439 201676 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Ltr < 1443869752 598076 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443870439 296478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443870926 641096 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443870992 472072 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443871664 341429 :MoALTz!~no@78.11.179.104 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1443872295 110317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference is that I didn't remember what the command-line command was, so I just looked for tab completion from "temp". < 1443875988 437411 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 NICK :bender < 1443877159 868561 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1443877350 357587 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any tool that can be used to simulate a laggy connection? < 1443877803 69859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but I can't remember what it is < 1443877815 199731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some iptables setting, perhaps? < 1443879449 71048 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://stackoverflow.com/questions/614795/simulate-delayed-and-dropped-packets-on-linux < 1443879463 379290 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found that < 1443879480 579425 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to use it < 1443879483 237608 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1443879536 83002 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, too slow :) < 1443879557 597279 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :most google results are windows only or bsd/osx only < 1443879582 50242 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://jagt.github.io/clumsy/ this looks pretty cool :\ < 1443880175 303684 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443880198 416325 :MDream!~fyrc@c-73-175-58-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1443881592 183618 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1443881593 613013 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :antediluvian/We could tell you what antediluvian means, but that would just open a flood of questions. < 1443883613 962429 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443883963 513759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a number of them. < 1443884035 936334 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1443884061 371847 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443884079 144272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://info.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/dummynet/ is one. < 1443884164 194830 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fungot is that one ugly website... < 1443884164 573095 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i can do something like: allocate cons-cells and bigger object separately, tagging cons-cells with fnord and outmoded concepts such as memory addresses, or look at peter wegner's more recent 10 years or so, iirc < 1443884165 79685 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( The original meaning of antediluvian has been washed away. ) < 1443884186 810423 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I've noted the ugly website too. < 1443884219 162692 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and Facebook's ATC also made the news. < 1443884225 393394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://facebook.github.io/augmented-traffic-control/ < 1443884254 375411 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1443884255 647243 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mockingbird/mockingbird is watching you.. closely! Is it mocking you? Probably. < 1443884288 179308 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :facebook has an ATC??? < 1443884296 989774 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. not that ATC. < 1443884310 240380 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1443884316 92940 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's perhaps a bit more Linux-native (iptables + tc, as opposed to FreeBSD ipfw stuff), and very much designed for testing mobile apps against "reasonable" profiles. < 1443884317 699797 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy saturday! < 1443884321 779456 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUINTHELLOPIA! < 1443884337 443623 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bon samedi pis plein d'affaires de même! < 1443884342 714446 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL < 1443884343 141836 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 031400Z 06017KT 30SM FEW025 BKN240 08/02 A3062 RMK CU1CI6 SLP369 < 1443884346 182154 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KATL < 1443884346 495562 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KATL 031452Z 04009KT 10SM SCT012 OVC025 17/13 A2971 RMK AO2 DZE14 SLP056 P0000 60001 T01670133 53005 < 1443884363 332428 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: pfeuh. you vile bourgeois living in warm weathers. < 1443884365 491279 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah its rain today < 1443884378 317925 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurricanes and floods and such < 1443884405 434622 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL < 1443884407 240176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 031450Z AUTO 22006KT 190V260 7000 NCD 16/10 Q1013 < 1443884450 76623 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a cold (FSVO) and dim morning, but then turned out to be all nicelike. < 1443884499 672659 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :this week i learned that the shape of finland is very generic and nondescript < 1443884513 314986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? It's human-shaped. < 1443884546 109558 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A woman wearing a dress, to be more precise. < 1443884567 463552 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thats a description < 1443884584 391908 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1443884602 272089 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still is not as readily visually identifiable as thailand or mexico or mauritania :) < 1443884621 458065 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the other arm would help, but we no longer have it. < 1443884676 372820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Atlas_of_Finland#/media/File:Finland_1920.png < 1443884682 769038 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe that's not much of an improvement. < 1443884682 946928 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Finland would have to exist first if we want to describe its shape. < 1443884736 758605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also the arms are proportionally speaking rather tiny.) < 1443884776 617340 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1443884793 922978 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly its just scrotumlike < 1443884943 494521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does this theory that finland doesn't exist come from? < 1443884946 990547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?< finland < 1443884947 168632 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: v @ ? . < 1443884949 408377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1443884951 337948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? finland < 1443884952 384350 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. < 1443885032 157159 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://m.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2qjohv/what_did_your_parents_show_you_to_do_that_you/ < 1443885045 386211 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a prank or something < 1443885061 510701 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :this kid was raised not to believe in it < 1443885075 387356 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sweden < 1443885076 583203 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweden is the suburb capital of Norway. It's where all the Nobel prizes are announced, except the Math Prize. < 1443885085 555669 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? norway < 1443885086 528358 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. < 1443885107 450832 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And therefore, Math is Peace. < 1443885157 194326 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Recurscandinavian Countries. < 1443885161 846816 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect one of the premises is flawed. Or my hidden assumption that no Nobel price is announced twice. < 1443885208 546256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if norway and sweden are contained within each other < 1443885209 844250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't any announcement in either necessarily happen in both? < 1443885219 756807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like an announcement that takes place in London also takes place in England < 1443885227 264246 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zimbabwe < 1443885228 401950 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner's desk points zimbabwards. it is highly dependent on tswett's michiganic orientation. < 1443885276 104613 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? misspellings of croissant < 1443885277 50386 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1443885279 999606 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is so silly. < 1443885350 55492 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont see how one could misspell it that badly < 1443885361 597975 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/devious < 1443885363 902135 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1443885364 403914 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :given how it is pronounced < 1443885374 315267 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-206-90.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1443885424 858768 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat wisdom/itidus* < 1443885425 764975 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: wisdom/itidus*: No such file or directory < 1443885429 350156 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat wisdom/itidus* < 1443885430 410831 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus19 disappeared into a space-time anomaly \ itidus20's entry has been censored. \ itidus21 just made some instant coffee. < 1443885438 893805 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kʀwa'sã/. < 1443885487 845789 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like roissy < 1443885550 770135 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ʀwasi/? < 1443885553 31890 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat wisdom/[ck]anada < 1443885554 180621 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canada is Big Scotland. Like, you know, very big. \ Your bankers' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrug < 1443885606 596462 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? burma < 1443885607 621193 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask Bike < 1443885621 353289 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a story here? < 1443885951 233557 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( /bʙʙʙʙʙʙʙʙʙʙʙʙʙʙʀʀʀʀʀʀʀʀʀʀʀʀʀmɒ/ ) < 1443886067 364682 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1443886151 555174 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn drone sex/Drone sex has never been observed in the wild; in fact it's rare to see drones in their natural habitat because they are extremely shy. Controlled experiments with drones in captivity have only resulted in broken drones, and a rotor stuck in the ceiling. We are still looking for a biological explanation for the ever increasing drone population. < 1443886155 984437 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «drone sex» < 1443886208 104594 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. HackEgo uses French guillemets. I didn't notice that before. < 1443886265 571435 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, `learn doesn't < 1443886302 205462 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443886332 368870 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1443886520 223767 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? footnote 8 < 1443886521 148420 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes? < 1443886533 722277 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/footnote 8 < 1443886535 572313 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 shachaf < 1443886609 552708 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn now I'm wondering whether it really was footnote 8 < 1443886662 272816 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443886728 405791 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the eighth footnote. it's footnote eight. it is logical. < 1443886803 920040 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? frotz < 1443886804 822317 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :frotz? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1443886814 547347 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? xyzzy < 1443886815 677820 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing happens. < 1443886845 265197 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? plugh < 1443886846 249521 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hollow voice says "Plugh" < 1443886854 984219 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe those are mine. < 1443886898 215232 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it was footnote 11 (though it's quite possible that the joke was used several times). < 1443886910 123328 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :>footnote 11 < 1443886910 338706 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes? < 1443886910 338765 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :>footnote 12 < 1443886910 338785 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the famous recursive footnote (Footnote 12). < 1443887002 937585 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? footnote 1337 < 1443887003 825615 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :footnote 1337? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1443887024 847013 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I first saw it in the Hitchhiker infocom game.) < 1443887470 470448 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07HALT14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44588&oldid=44582 5* 03Vihan 5* (+92) 10Added KEEP command < 1443887536 691549 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07HALT14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44589&oldid=44588 5* 03Vihan 5* (+48) 10Added example < 1443887598 890062 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think I just didn't look up the number. < 1443887615 367638 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather I reused the text and not the number, because the HackEgo footnote system is different. < 1443887624 796232 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it wouldn't hurt to add a few footnotes throughout wisdom/. < 1443888232 902697 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443888721 562862 :MoALTz!~no@78.11.179.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443889126 262093 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1443889405 569406 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1443889465 257293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1443889477 109785 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's one more thing I forgot about ayacc. Since you distribute it as a bare script file snapshot through http now, can you throw in an __END__ (or control-z character) to the end of the script so that there's an easy way to tell that the file is not truncated please? < 1443889512 639148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll think about it when I get back to ayacc < 1443889526 631349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a pretty unusual request, though (especially because the webserver doesn't exactly keep its size secret) < 1443889554 609016 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drinks coffee. boily is happy. < 1443889555 442842 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's not too important < 1443890269 956687 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1443890416 150846 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zabie < 1443890417 102679 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zabie? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1443890796 578653 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH JOIN :#esoteric < 1443890904 396695 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1443890949 721584 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1443891928 349098 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1443891932 844505 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of these Selenium WebDriver method names are... well, overly Java-ey. < 1443891934 130211 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. ExpectedConditions.frameToBeAvailableAndSwitchToIt. < 1443892163 722929 :jalumar!~henrik@m77-218-241-154.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1443892195 54792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're also occasionally inconsistent. There's presenceOfAllElementsLocatedBy(By locator) but presenceOfElementLocated(By locator). The first one leads to duplicate By-ness if you use a By.id(...) style locator. < 1443892271 6487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SeleniumWebDriverOverlyLongJavaMethodName < 1443892286 531069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1443892291 210636 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1443892304 582521 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't actually know java case conventions < 1443892390 885391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :God laurdag, godtfolk < 1443892490 167715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION translates boily's greeting and gets udder nonsence < 1443892493 294273 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1443892529 877498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1443892530 245710 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 031650Z 12004KT CAVOK 10/07 Q1009 RMK WIND 670FT 16007KT < 1443892593 512712 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :UpperCamelCase for types and lowerCamelCase for other things, to summarize it very briefly. < 1443892612 597969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And UPPERCASE_WITH_SNAKES for constants. < 1443892672 343382 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SERPENTIALLY_OVERWROUGHT_VALUES, check < 1443892884 258028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: classes are UpperCamelCase < 1443892888 134580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :primitive types are in lowercase < 1443892897 812923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because they wouldn't parse otherwise, among other things) < 1443893069 879546 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: «pis» can mean udder, but is common vernacular for “and” hth < 1443893074 465361 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if annotations count as classes, but they're in @UpperCamelCase. < 1443893181 833601 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And type variables are UpperCamelCase except often only one letter, and/or suffixed by a T. < 1443893213 164204 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to the language standard, interfaces are not classes, and they're also UpCaCa. < 1443893262 763561 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, how do you pronounce "dt"? < 1443893282 916820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Annotations seem to count as interfaces, apparently.) < 1443893352 708117 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1443893356 735638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: the d is silent hth < 1443893383 569154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or alternatively, dt ~ tt in pronunciation < 1443893440 23419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :d is frequently silent in norwegian, especially nynorsk like this < 1443893499 586415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1443893505 372761 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the d in god is also silent) < 1443893517 156109 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not laurdag because reasons? < 1443893528 990010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there it starts a syllable < 1443893545 942020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I often use «» as an IRC equivalent of < 1443893547 990647 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly silent at the end of them, or before consonants < 1443893559 613621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's unlikely to clash with anything in the text I'm trying to quote (which is normally ASCII) < 1443893564 141602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible exception: Perl 6 < 1443893571 506907 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :g is also often silent in similar places, but not in laurdag < 1443893699 437590 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norwegian is weird... silent letters all over the place. *shudders* < 1443893700 494601 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the a in the au diphtong is closer to ø than a < 1443893718 11867 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tdh. < 1443893725 25294 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+h < 1443893773 779105 :^v!~^v@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443893783 148565 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might depend on dialect, i saw a claim in wikipedia it was close to æ < 1443893879 24722 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: yeah you're lucky french doesn't have any < 1443893883 808700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away < 1443894053 177186 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ours are all nicely sorted out at the end of each word, not haphazardly strewn in the middle of them! that's uncouth and vulgar. tsé. < 1443894102 130427 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other language has perfected the art of «-aient»? < 1443894147 477384 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the -ai- part is also silent? i never got to the more advanced tenses in french class. < 1443894186 357879 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, the "ai" is pronounced < 1443894202 339756 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the "-ent" ending is silent (and only in verbs) < 1443894203 719455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1443894212 451546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do remember that < 1443894274 926114 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :third person plural indicative imperfect. < 1443894305 125417 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, as in “parlaient” < 1443894728 414049 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1443894829 103340 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would have learned more french in high school had they stuck to teaching spoken frenh < 1443894916 8520 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1443894933 160109 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no, I remember tests in which you had to remember all these extra letters < 1443894962 290805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1443895025 896352 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :それは嫌だぞ < 1443895087 274826 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :さぁ、c'est pas si pire que ça でしょう. < 1443895293 565072 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443895474 372743 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavellon[1]. do you conjugate your verbs? < 1443895849 750078 :sc00fy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1443895859 76147 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Atlas_of_Finland#/media/File:Finland_1920.png <-- huh i didn't know finland reached all the way to the arctic ocean between the world wars < 1443895872 399133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and separating norway from the soviet union, even < 1443895938 512687 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1443895996 820533 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: would you prefer to have a buffer between you and Russia? < 1443896029 758365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now that might be nice < 1443896050 648050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh then the finns would probably demand some of the sea border, too < 1443896190 192749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1443896190 609784 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1443896220 433471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: erm repository browser is no longer working halp < 1443896548 296139 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I got intermittent proxy failures earlier... try again? < 1443896580 934398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just getting this page with a guy in a hat tdnh < 1443896675 755453 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd, works for me. < 1443896683 659588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1443896711 334301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the url in the `help? < 1443896717 403394 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1443896720 442893 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1443896762 374861 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't even have any funny entries in /etc/hosts (this has happened before... it was worth checking) < 1443896783 202550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just redirects, which is annoying because i cannot reload the page when i cannot get to it... < 1443896792 164867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did change gregor's hat, though < 1443896830 874674 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor has several hats? < 1443896839 151543 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1443896859 72750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there really any possibility that you haven't noticed that before < 1443896867 885413 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he does, on http://codu.org/ < 1443896887 667943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :look in the about me menu < 1443896892 243637 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I normally don't reload the page... and I'm only there very rarely. < 1443896952 834621 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what I really meant is that the picture on the home page changes randomly... didn't realize that before) < 1443896973 65496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1443897043 575509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i wonder < 1443897044 752221 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but still I have no clue how you end up on that page since codu usually prints 404 rather than redirecting you to the root... < 1443897054 202547 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo ho >test < 1443897055 979435 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1443897072 139005 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, still redirects < 1443897079 859536 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see that commit < 1443897096 156524 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried a different browser? < 1443897117 316235 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you behind any funny filters that would object to the word "sex"? < 1443897184 111088 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1443897191 402326 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I think the green highlighting in http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm is inaccurate < 1443897277 821017 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg < 1443897281 289989 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2015-10-03 18:34:27 URL:http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi [21582] -> "fshg" [1] < 1443897286 973687 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat fshg < 1443897287 829500 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \ \ \ \ \ changeset \
find changesets by author, revision, < 1443897314 468887 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks legit. < 1443897327 841340 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rm fshg test < 1443897331 548091 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1443897366 903284 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, a cached "moved permanently" would do the trick... < 1443897399 630096 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know the numeric value. < 1443897409 212764 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. it just reloads the codu.org page itself. < 1443897427 452180 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE you say... < 1443897487 727250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, does the browse use flash (ok not likely) < 1443897496 459852 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just disabled it in general < 1443897504 35536 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*browser < 1443897537 786019 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Virtualbox, what do you mean by "General failure - DON'T USE THIS!!!"? < 1443897750 79015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, there's a list of "allowed sites" for flash but it won't let me edit it to anything other than * or empty < 1443897806 498530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much for my plan to see if it was responsible for the cpu leak i've been experiencing recently < 1443897883 157608 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well i'll just put this down to the universe's general dislike of me using computers. < 1443898345 925217 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1443898992 429816 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Oh. Yeah, hold on, I'll fix that < 1443899279 704761 :jalumar!~henrik@m77-218-241-154.cust.tele2.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1443899456 757592 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that oughta do it < 1443899558 334229 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-206-90.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443900155 198874 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: great, now only the new kanji/hanzi are green < 1443900174 426876 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1443900607 165650 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: also, I don't see that problem where the kanji don't line up in a grid anymore. either you fixed it, there was a cache problem, or it differs by which browser or system I'm viewing the page in. < 1443900721 898930 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1443900799 19128 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, seriously? That error indicates that virtualbox cannot access any audio device?! < 1443900876 399654 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is not entirely clear, but disabling the soundcard as suggested by https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=69722 did help me as well) < 1443900900 731828 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: PISTON CHICKEN < 1443900965 698149 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :function < 1443901347 688293 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443901721 605878 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443901819 695063 :jalumar!~henrik@m77-218-241-154.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1443902281 535844 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: it's not /kʀwa'zɔ̃/? < 1443902356 72901 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell hppavilion[1] So I guess you'd define a ring syntactically by means of a ring presentation. < 1443902356 251080 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1443902507 73665 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, presentations are really slippery though... < 1443902517 531791 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean? < 1443902580 329405 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be undecidable whether two terms are equal, for one thing. < 1443902600 703680 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that < 1443902604 487068 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1443902629 345206 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i took a module on hyperbolic groups last term and that was bad enough < 1443902935 530098 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443902949 174776 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1443903301 105113 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443903320 893922 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1443903387 701683 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, this is true. < 1443903402 219793 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course, given two presentations, you can't tell whether they present isomorphic rings or not. < 1443903411 936397 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's probably semidecidable, right? < 1443903508 492820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah if you can guess the formulation of each generator set in the other, and the equality proofs... < 1443903515 478892 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1443903609 25869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/guess/brute force search/ < 1443903625 446066 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a hyperbolic group < 1443903645 438246 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hyperbolic group < 1443903646 352831 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyperbolic group? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1443903693 156010 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it's a group that exaggerates things < 1443903694 563700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn hyperbolic group/Hyperbolic groups are the best group there are, they're totally awesome and cure cancer. < 1443903697 867028 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «hyperbolic group» < 1443903701 645642 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1443903704 224448 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1443903713 430086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn hyperbolic group/Hyperbolic groups are the best groups there are, they're totally awesome and cure cancer. < 1443903715 775229 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «hyperbolic group» < 1443903734 718347 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell hppavilion[1] A ring presentation consists of a bunch of variables and equations of the form "P = 0", where P is a polynomial in those variables. The elements of the ring are all possible polynomials in those variables, with the caveat that two polynomials are equal if and only if you can show that they're equal given the equations. < 1443903734 897026 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1443903746 161214 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody will now criticize my definition. < 1443903775 93970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it scans horribly tdnh < 1443903829 262232 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to scan it and my scanner said I was counterfeiting money and automatically called the police! < 1443903849 154149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This presentation thing only works for finite cases, right? < 1443903865 728932 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :For finite cases of what? < 1443903896 68803 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good question. < 1443903935 486221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: i guess you shouldn't have included the Omron rings in your presentation < 1443903966 852779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: also _some_ infinite ones hth < 1443903984 140884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, but those are just special cases, right? < 1443903984 318798 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually < 1443903990 123067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to remember. < 1443903998 150086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also infinite presentations. so no, it covers everything. < 1443904016 729126 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather trivially, really. < 1443904021 871648 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only finitely presented rings have presentations that are finite. < 1443904022 49689 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but you have to be more careful for infinite presentations? < 1443904045 924025 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every group is "infinitely presented"—just say the generators are its elements and the relations are the true equations. < 1443904048 412572 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. < 1443904059 957317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just include a generator for every element and an equation for every arithmetic pairing) < 1443904079 446172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are infinitary theories (such as that of complete Boolean algebras - see Johnstone [82]) where this is insuperable and presentations simply don't present algebras. For frames, fortunately, presentations do present, but we have to argue slightly carefully to show this. The trick is ..." < 1443904106 335448 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's not relevant to rings. < 1443904121 517570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this generalizes to any variety of universal algebra, i assume. < 1443904130 94473 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always hated doing presentations in school < 1443904134 748167 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may not include every "theory". < 1443904146 530331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even universal algebra where you have infinite-ary operators? < 1443904166 220428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :completeness is probably a topological thing so you cannot include it < 1443904203 798223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I have some milk now. < 1443904215 3203 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a good rice to use for that Norwegian rice thing? < 1443904225 664440 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: which were your least favorite: individual presentations, group presentations, or ring presentations? < 1443904226 522066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it matter? < 1443904241 762249 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you wash the rice or is it better to keep the starch? < 1443904302 475038 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I < 1443904318 389875 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think I liked the individual ones the least < 1443904353 849583 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never done a ring presentation (although I have had a few girlfriends) < 1443904367 836958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: customary the rice is short and white, i'm not a rice expert. < 1443904371 355368 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ily < 1443904423 122670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait i have this vague memory that we used something exotic once (basmati?) and it was much better. < 1443904465 616058 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote shachaf identity < 1443904465 830537 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes match. I am sorry. < 1443904468 991656 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what! < 1443904479 729409 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote shachaf < 1443904479 907491 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf says: roconnor_: The Monomorschism? < 1443904484 273696 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote shachaf < 1443904484 451820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf says: Henning should call all his modules M < 1443904500 401761 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote shachaf i < 1443904500 580179 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf says: your comment on irc was enlightening. i never thought i would learn so much about this subject! very interesting. it's the sort of comment we see on my favorite irc channel, #enlargeyourmortgage. an excellent read, thanks again! < 1443904546 823073 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote shachaf I < 1443904547 972 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf says: i they are so love easy threads < 1443904555 748855 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote shachaf I < 1443904555 926971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf says: (\l -> Data.Array.IArray.elems $ runST $ do { arr <- newListArray (0,length l - 1) l :: ST s (STArray s Int Int); (`fix` 0) $ \loop i -> do { v <- readArray arr i; writeArray arr i (v^2); when (i < (length l - 1)) (loop (i+1))}; iarr <- unsafeFreeze arr; return (iarr :: Array Int Int) }) That's the best way to square all the < 1443904555 927058 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :elements of a list in Haskell, by far. < 1443904569 808908 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg lambdabot hth < 1443904597 90884 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i saw (very belatedly, i'm > 1 month late on /r/haskell) this discussion of renaming * to Type or something, and i thought "just make it T to annoy thielemann". < 1443904657 438570 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use T to mean a string < 1443904670 234318 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other streng besides S < 1443904713 208609 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, "Let S,T,U be bit strings of lengths L,M,N" < 1443904716 201781 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what's #enlargeyourmortagelike twh < 1443904746 748842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* like < 1443904781 803886 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't mortgage spelled morkage? < 1443904803 509744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: or look at http://ircbrowse.net/nick/shachaf?recent=false hth < 1443904820 784546 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that's only quotes in #haskell, and it includes some bad ones that were thankfully @forgotten < 1443904820 963205 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because when pronunciations change, the spellings often stay the same instead of being updated to reflect the new pronunciations. < 1443904841 27327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: apparently morgage exists but is obsolete < 1443904846 197872 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it derives from "mort gage" < 1443904881 673043 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=mortgage - also because of Latinobonerists. < 1443904919 455533 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not Latin boner people, just the Norman conquest. < 1443904936 256454 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty typical example of Law French. < 1443904967 470397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hikhq < 1443904968 747115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wiktionary said it was spelled morgage in anglo-norman < 1443904973 17736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar KOAK < 1443904973 304526 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOAK 031953Z 31007KT 10SM FEW012 21/13 A2960 RMK AO2 SLP023 T02110128 < 1443904984 907429 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :'rtg' doesn't seem like a very latin consonant cluster < 1443905003 421644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru dat < 1443905004 68609 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYYZ < 1443905004 405951 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYYZ 032000Z 08014G28KT 15SM -RA FEW045 OVC058 10/03 A3037 RMK CU1NS7 SLP288 < 1443905012 321691 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Looks as though both spellings coexisted. < 1443905034 828479 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we got a cold north wind here < 1443905079 319966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: http://ircbrowse.net/browse/haskell?q=oren < 1443905142 140594 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a different oren < 1443905167 794389 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1443905171 45181 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's my father) < 1443905202 91305 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought your father was called something starting with s < 1443905211 103151 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. so this oren is spelled with a ו < 1443905218 176464 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i misremembered i suppose < 1443905232 561787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ו? Officially not. < 1443905269 730891 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought ו was o and u in hebrew? < 1443905275 529694 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a vowel. < 1443905277 613285 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with different dots < 1443905280 154392 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this context. < 1443905288 435459 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1443905304 32726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the letter representing the o sound is a glottal stop. < 1443905306 896925 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :א < 1443905373 825223 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh... Ok I have no idea how Hebrew works < 1443905386 602798 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know how korean works? < 1443905390 84522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think hangul has the same deal < 1443905412 675440 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hangul works the same as english, but the letters are in blocks instead linear < 1443905445 357772 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how does aleph represent o in some words but a in others? < 1443905459 250201 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like ㅇ, i think < 1443905488 340687 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there not vowel markers involved < 1443905492 975080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know japanese or something like that, right? < 1443905501 527865 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeas I know Japanese < 1443905516 914494 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does s represent そ in some words but さ in others? < 1443905525 399382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :aleph is just another consonant < 1443905527 409557 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\, if it helps, words that 'start' with a vowel in english actually start with an implicit glottal stop < 1443905569 395328 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so the vowels aren't marked at all, and aleph represents the fact there is some vowel there but not which one? < 1443905613 569653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are marked sometimes, but aleph is not the vowel here < 1443905642 61731 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: see http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2015-09-10.2318.html where it talks about Hebrew and Arabic < 1443905704 372145 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you might write אורן < 1443905723 171461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ו represents a vowel, but the word starts with a glottal stop < 1443905765 18448 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, this is unhelpful as i do not speak french < 1443905788 229711 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see... Wrods that start with a glottal stop are a new one to me, but theres no reason why that can't happen < 1443905833 677117 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They aren't particularly new to you. Every English word that starts with a vowel -- like "aren't" and "every" and "english" and "a" and "and" -- starts with a glottal stop. < 1443905858 825080 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the e vowel in oren? < 1443905861 966566 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, I don't think so. not according to that blog entry I just linked to < 1443905875 678360 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Unfortunately I don't know much French. < 1443905890 566505 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1443905897 109577 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the start of the oh in uh-oh is different from the start of O in O Canada < 1443905930 166198 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sound the same to me? < 1443905956 579361 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think the initial glottal stop is universal in english < 1443905963 899950 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's very common all the same < 1443905978 624110 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it gets slurred away, of course. < 1443906013 151782 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that article specifically explains that some languages, namely Hebrew, Arabic, possibly Dutch, require a pause before all words that start with a vowel, so Hebrew and Arabic treats such words as starting with a glottal stop consonant, which that article suggests to call a ʔalif. < 1443906074 406366 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the writing systems for Hebrew and Arabic are abjads, and they write a ʔalif letter at the start of that word, which is why it's natural to analyze those languages that way. < 1443906102 486671 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I see, in english I do do it at the start of a sentence, so for e.g. 'eat an apple' there is something in my throat at the start of 'eat' but not the other two words < 1443906105 886830 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is not mentioned in that article, but lojban is also like that.) < 1443906159 41994 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: The "proper" pronunciation of that sentence would include the thing that I think of as a glottal stop for each of those words. < 1443906162 852806 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: however, the article also tells that this isn't the only thing ʔalif is used for, namely long vowels in Hebrew and Arabic are often represented as a fake consonant sign with a vowel mark, < 1443906163 278885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or so I think. < 1443906176 345706 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ʔalif is used as such a consonant sign for some vowels. < 1443906207 37906 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also that the arabic writing system is complicated and it won't try to tell all the rules. < 1443906228 642302 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my spelling it's 'Et N apL' < 1443906243 242968 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the things you're saying match up with my intuitive understanding of things. < 1443906246 822977 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no pause. < 1443906264 794299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can have aleph in the middle of words as a glottal stop, no problem. < 1443906268 916990 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: however, most languages, including English, French, (Hungarian, not mentioned in the article) do have lots of common words that actaully start with a vowel, and they're pronounced (usually) without a stop or pause before them, < 1443906304 764394 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think there's no point saying that English words that start with a vowel have a glottal stop before them, because nobody pronounces them that way. < 1443906314 361918 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no stop in english, we slur all our words together and that is perfectly ok < 1443906332 883444 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, it _can_ mean a glottal stop in the middle of a word, because it does work like a real consonant. < 1443906372 80794 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but the letter can also represent a long vowel, and this isn't even specific for aleph, because there are a couple of other consonant signs that are sometimes used to mark a long vowel, and sometimes a consonant, in Hebrew and Arabic. < 1443906387 195879 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think people slur glottal stops at the beginnings of words into the previous word about as much in Hebrew and in English. < 1443906405 897022 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say that "eat", "an", and "apple" all start with the same sound, standing on their own. < 1443906423 807231 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: does that apply to Arabic too? < 1443906429 59305 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to Hebrew that is < 1443906437 184705 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, well in english it isn't analyzed normally as having a glottal stop at the start < 1443906444 701601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say them quickly one after the other, sure, there might be a spot of slurring. But that's a result of how you combine words, not the words in themselves. < 1443906448 29672 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I don't know. < 1443906540 169630 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me re-read the article, maybe it says this only about Dutch (sometimes) and Arabic < 1443906583 281977 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_phonology#Consonant_examples doesn't include glottal stop as one of the consonantal inventory of english < 1443906585 157463 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking a sentence made up of individual words is a complicated process. Just saying each word in the sentence separately sounds very unnatural. < 1443906601 592010 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, sorry, it doesn't specifically seem to say this about Hebrew, only about Arabic < 1443906626 909911 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: aleph is *also* used in hebrew as a pseudo-vowel in some cases < 1443906673 437955 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: You must admit that the two 'i's in the IPA for "english" are pronounced very differently. < 1443906674 260301 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it says very little about Hebrew < 1443906695 934180 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1443906722 5730 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also doesn't seem to specifically say that aleph is used to write a long vowel in Hebrew < 1443906738 471678 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says that about Arabic < 1443906786 775034 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :“il faut préciser que l'arabe utiliser des consonnes pour marquer l'allongement des voyelles : la voyelle longue ‘ī’ est notée ‘{i}y’, la voyelle longue ‘ū’ est notée ‘{u}w’, et la voyelle longue ‘ā’ est notée par un ‘{a}’ suivi d'un ʔalif, justement ; dans tous les cas, j'écris la voyelle entre accolades parce que les voyelles ne sont normalement pas écrites en arabe, donc seule reste visible la consonne d'allongement < 1443906789 314550 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443906800 304300 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's more or less true for Hebrew as well, but that article doesn't say < 1443906803 660738 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll ask in a comment < 1443906822 930312 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sounds like inglish to me, with two of the same i? < 1443906849 403610 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is a different mental model of how vowels work. < 1443906876 964802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, glottal stops in the middles of words are also often slurred away in colloquial Hebrew. < 1443906898 176272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would be much easier in a spoken conversation, because I could hear what you're saying and demonstrate what I mean. < 1443906931 752392 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sorry about the confusion < 1443906968 951556 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.. maybe I can demonstrate < 1443906991 372437 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does windows still come with wave sound recorder < 1443906997 635480 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: isn't Old English the language that's (also sometimes) analyzed with a glottal stop at the beginning of (most) words starting with a vowel? < 1443907002 382950 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to English < 1443907007 344381 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1443907058 131968 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try to ask on ##linguistics, but that channel is very rarely on-topic < 1443907086 800257 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had bad experiences with linguists before. < 1443907104 688907 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could try http://linguistics.stackexchange.com/ < 1443907114 893286 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i met a nice linguist once < 1443907118 463689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i also met augur < 1443907135 516021 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: :( < 1443907145 142727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've experienced half of that... < 1443907171 242470 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf doesnt like me because i dont like him because he was a dick to me. its a funny world we live in < 1443907180 641172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok augur i still like you < 1443907183 873717 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1443907200 759285 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there are lots of nice linguists on the internet. < 1443907221 573901 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you count amateurs like David Madore (whose article I linked) < 1443907224 180234 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i dont think Old English has that, but Modern English does < 1443907234 38664 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: has what? < 1443907239 791075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good time to end the discussion. < 1443907241 98959 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PART :#esoteric < 1443907246 521361 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :glottal stops before vowels at the beginning of words < 1443907254 992563 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1443907259 490888 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you even find that out < 1443907269 825926 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there now, you see? shachaf has been doing this for ages :| < 1443907270 602190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://linguistics.stackexchange.com/questions/2585/rules-for-glottal-stop-insertion-across-languages hth < 1443907279 476073 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: find what out? < 1443907316 565158 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you read the freaking blog post I linked to, which specifically talks about English? < 1443907320 171309 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heres a recording of me reading out some of the previous text formt his channed < 1443907320 976726 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1443907323 795389 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.orenwatson.be/demonstrate.wma < 1443907338 253499 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, how else do you find out things these days, other than looking them up on the internet or asking in irc < 1443907346 706943 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, whether old english had initial glottal stops < 1443907361 442084 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, i did make it clear that i don't speak french, right < 1443907366 76031 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. well you can try reconstructions of the phonology and stuff < 1443907450 97311 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, shachaf left < 1443907462 825618 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well whatever < 1443907505 290567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1443907516 323465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : shachaf: i delight in knowing that i can grind your gears just by answering your questions. < 1443907522 457547 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is hardly a new thing < 1443907531 631216 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i know its not new < 1443907542 502854 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've been at this for years < 1443907546 716265 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.orenwatson.be/demonstrate.wma <- heres a recording of what my dialect sounds like in case you missed it < 1443907570 591687 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop being dicks to each other will you < 1443907576 249196 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even tho we've barely interacted in, say, the last 5 years < 1443907600 971419 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: its hard to be dicks to one another when we dont interact :) < 1443907607 815706 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is .wma the only format you have? Can't you have FLAC format? < 1443907608 61429 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I think we've talked about the ch in my name before. < 1443907630 765950 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh hi < 1443907636 31813 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to say something about esoteric stuff < 1443907648 812216 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'll do the next one as mp3 or something < 1443907667 835104 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wma was the default when I saed it < 1443907683 552381 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shouldn't use MP3 either, use FLAC < 1443907696 548535 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is flac compress? < 1443907712 267849 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is compressed, but it is lossless < 1443907727 414559 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the c stands for compression :) < 1443907732 788436 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free Lossless Audio Compression < 1443907761 603226 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you want lossy compression you can use Vorbis, which is still better quality than MP3; but FLAC is better quality because it is lossless.) < 1443907783 79126 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway AFAIK I don't use glottal stops < 1443907785 493652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: flee roses, oh dear compassion < 1443907793 625716 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want audio on the internet, you're best with MP3 of course, since its widely implemented, compared to FLAC and vorbis < 1443907876 840941 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you care about esoteric C++? < 1443907971 564090 :function!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :trout < 1443908013 362017 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care much about C++, but you can do it anyways if you want to < 1443908045 739493 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... for some reason I thought you did at least non-esoteric C++ < 1443908063 404838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said, there's a lot that changes when you speak a sentence compared to the individual words. < 1443908158 239020 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: are you a native speaker of English? if so, which dialect? < 1443908216 922013 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canadian English, I guess the toronto regional accent < 1443908237 276142 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you definitely have glottal stops :) < 1443908253 374355 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what words? < 1443908260 931855 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than uh-oh < 1443908262 785626 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in every word that begins with a vowel! < 1443908269 431640 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bulshit < 1443908271 826162 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only when the vowel is initial < 1443908294 269338 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but glottal stops are hard for native speakers to hear, because its phonologically not there < 1443908309 303768 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only gets inserted in certain conditions < 1443908352 70550 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fairly well known about native english speakers that they cant hear their glottal stops, tho. singing teachers struggle with this all the time < 1443908474 234121 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1443908553 580601 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: i can hear lots of glottal stops in your audio file :) < 1443908565 823162 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1443908596 645919 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, its hard to hear them. i bet you cant hear the two different p's either! < 1443908647 30653 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get glottal stops but i don't get aspiration < 1443908675 468998 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you mean you cant hear the aspiration? me neither usually. its very hard to hear for me < 1443908682 238078 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1443908683 475391 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to really focus < 1443908709 541756 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linguistics is 1% aspiration and 99% perspiration. < 1443908740 514560 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok i've recorded anothewr one, this time a passage from a calculus textbook < 1443908749 676611 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmfao shachaf :) < 1443908808 3342 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.orenwatson.be/calculus.wma < 1443908844 987501 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :onus points if you can figure out which calculus textbook this is < 1443908848 376985 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: glottal stops everywhere! < 1443908913 662663 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh where I don't hear any < 1443908919 711574 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know you dont :) its ok < 1443908927 923598 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, oh also while we're here, i noticed a while back that i say 'tl' (as in bottle or glottal) with a lateral plosive or something < 1443908933 381373 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the only true test would be to get some nice, clean, high-quality audio and put it through a spectrogram and show you < 1443908936 256504 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did Bubbles do with his lips? < 1443908941 43196 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or her lips < 1443908951 951318 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i couldn't find any reference to this being 'a thing' and it's nagged at me since < 1443909001 735868 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone on Language Log once mentioned a situation where one of their chinese students was in utter disbelief that she was deleting certain consonants or whatever in her speech < 1443909033 33858 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they put it through a spectrogram and looked and even upon seeing the spectro, the student insisted that it had been tampered with because she could HEAR the damn things! < 1443909087 866669 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except there really was nothing to hear, its just that the processing is so tight that it creates the subjective experience of things that arent in the signal < 1443909133 986296 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. interesting that its possible to say a sound without hearing it and hear a sound without saying it < 1443909144 700932 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lateral releases are pretty common, yeah < 1443909171 938539 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, i don't see how kneecaps come into this < 1443909182 168409 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? XD < 1443909191 907451 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_release < 1443909199 912936 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: its still a t or d, but the release isnt alveolar its lateral, so the standard notation is a superscript l < 1443909205 498428 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellaugur! long time no see! < 1443909231 164177 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[bɑtˡl] or [bɑdˡl] < 1443909238 149626 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: hi hello do i know you? < 1443909272 115285 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lol < 1443909273 407163 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_release_(phonetics) :P < 1443909293 305552 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd think it'd be [bɔtˡl] but vowels scare me < 1443909316 314409 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be but i would bet against it < 1443909323 147931 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who knows, theres lots of english dialects :) < 1443909346 768569 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some dialects say "buses" homophonously with bosses using ɔ so who knows! < 1443909441 649054 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe NICK :perkele < 1443909449 330055 :perkele!nortti@ayu.smar.moe NICK :nortti < 1443909466 923871 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, well now i'm curious: https://clyp.it/jcjw5sni < 1443909493 238541 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you always are there in the list. I think I saw you talk on this channel, but it goes so far back that it may be many years ago. < 1443909493 668639 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all ɑ to me < 1443909586 114616 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sounds like it could indeed be ɔ! < 1443909608 861858 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://clyp.it/ < 1443909610 355687 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, what do you elitist linguists know < 1443909619 11880 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its somewhere between ɑ and ɔ and ɒ < 1443909622 971417 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its in that region < 1443909627 853721 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit I'm not a linguist < 1443909629 265104 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im guessing tho that you're british < 1443909634 317096 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :scottish < 1443909648 343649 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: im guessing that you voted #Yes < 1443909649 81064 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1443909657 450343 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yes < 1443909659 277983 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1443909675 330423 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: well, im here now :) hello! < 1443909688 116318 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pronounce oʊ as o as well, that threw me for ages < 1443909697 763124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :'that's not a diphthong...' < 1443909702 582442 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-psurprcgpeuqnkwa JOIN :#esoteric < 1443909784 532544 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :canadian english and dakotan-alaska english do that too < 1443909800 627121 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Phantom_Hoover you dont sound glaswegian < 1443909818 874680 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no, on account of being from edinburgh < 1443909819 127522 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my bet would be edinburgh, just on population? < 1443909821 790134 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAH < 1443909834 789409 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn im good :) < 1443909852 525531 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: dayung! < 1443909884 529312 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i also tried doing RP for a few years then decided i didn't like it so it sounds weird to people from edinburgh < 1443909884 746499 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the hell, I can't even < 1443909896 146642 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: :) < 1443909906 959212 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is im a linguist and also i watch a LOT of british TV < 1443909915 746718 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1443909924 675372 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? augur < 1443909925 656694 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur took no cakes. < 1443909931 830564 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the panel quiz comedy shows, so i get lots of exposure to different dialects < 1443909945 489920 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant pin down many of the british dialects, but i can get some major ones < 1443909952 309219 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn augur/augur took no cakes, but he's a linguist. < 1443909954 585456 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «augur» < 1443909970 534431 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anyone from edinburgh on the panel show circuit < 1443909976 929172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember there being any < 1443909988 369629 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but right, you worked that part out by elimination < 1443910000 566771 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know. edinburgh isnt nearly as lulzy as glasgow so probably not < 1443910014 429946 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it was a probabilistic deduction < 1443910019 620252 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sherlockian even! < 1443910074 997902 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man google gives _nothing_ for comedians from edinburgh < 1443910134 583816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit worrying < 1443910137 945521 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Edinburgh 2015: the best new comedians heading to the Fringe" includes Stewart Francis who's fucking canadian lmfao < 1443910161 718336 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that sums up Edinburgh: their best new comedians are from canada lolol < 1443910168 876158 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, the fringe is one of the biggest comedy festivals in the world < 1443910222 898839 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :searching for comedians from glasgow, on the other hand, has plenty of results. lol < 1443910227 265078 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh edinburgh < 1443910241 27982 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what you get for pronouncing it edinbruh < 1443910247 932762 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1443910265 993826 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't edinberghuh < 1443910271 433977 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1443910272 982594 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :edinbruh < 1443910278 218355 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckk < 1443910303 729631 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe edinbuhruh < 1443910308 803736 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but definitely no g < 1443910319 914063 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the e, the g, and the h are all dilent < 1443910325 353456 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/dil/sil < 1443910356 664564 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well edinbruh is the short version < 1443910358 708471 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the e isnt silent! < 1443910364 399595 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're enunciating it's edinburuh < 1443910376 136246 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: its the only one people say on a regular basis tho :P < 1443910418 460632 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. but basically the only actual curveball is that the gh is pronounced 'uh' < 1443910437 969867 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://clyp.it/gs14rz5x < 1443910500 879142 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what happen when I only ever see a word written < 1443910524 668507 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :edinboire < 1443910552 859647 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :edinboire :D < 1443910564 913648 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bruh, like douches saying bro but with uh instead < 1443910582 861506 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :edinburgahee < 1443910610 494629 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxM7ENmEh1U < 1443910634 702602 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e-d-i-n-b-ore-u-haytch :) < 1443910729 272734 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh irish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI1UaHt1zRU < 1443910762 152686 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu < 1443910767 8468 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can manage the consonants < 1443910776 906093 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the vowels are there solely to fuck with your head < 1443910807 677663 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole british isles are trolling me < 1443910814 629786 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a LL post from ages ago about irish spelling :) < 1443910832 105175 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\, oh man you'll love this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOd3lwluQIw < 1443910849 85677 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and this is mostly english names, which are fairly tame) < 1443910878 298283 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is featherstonehough in there somewhere? < 1443910926 735201 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1443910988 535444 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean they're not crazy like siobhan, they're just heavily elided < 1443911218 739179 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's fanSo < 1443911431 989298 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ɛ̃ < 1443911433 506860 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+0020 SPACE \ UTF-8: 20 UTF-16BE: 0020 Decimal: \ \ Category: Zs (Separator, Space) \ Bidi: WS (Whitespace) \ \ U+025B LATIN SMALL LETTER OPEN E \ UTF-8: c9 9b UTF-16BE: 025b Decimal: ɛ \ ɛ (Ɛ) \ Uppercase: U+0190 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+0303 COMBINING TILDE \ UTF-8: cc 83 UTF-16BE: < 1443911462 331676 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443911495 80565 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1443911574 52140 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fenshaw < 1443911620 949062 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I hope the ow in glasgow is the same as in cow < 1443911673 326197 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuuuuuuuu < 1443911687 47587 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why the fuck is there a w < 1443911698 910988 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's glasgo < 1443911757 232346 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: wait till you learn that some scottish people pronounce "cow" as coo :) < 1443911788 388754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that the vernacular spelling of glasgow is 'glesgae' < 1443911831 463541 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vernacular, or scots? < 1443911834 311771 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking british people ruining the english language for everyone < 1443911858 926926 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, well, what's the difference < 1443911878 640541 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: abandon English, go French :D < 1443911902 514921 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :scots is a different language sister to english, whereas vernacular is just everyday scottish english < 1443911962 963741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's such a bullshit distinction < 1443911988 893526 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :je ne parl fransais pa untilthey unfuck their spelling < 1443912007 67073 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's certainly a gradient, of course, but scots is a real distinct language < 1443912016 427937 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :recognition of its status as a language is actually kind of important < 1443912042 371569 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :my understanding of the history is that scots developed in parallel and along a continuum with english < 1443912057 779806 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: maim, mangle and mutilate. that's the first step to writing proper French and speaking it. < 1443912070 836272 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah, there's no clear line, you must understand < 1443912084 520770 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: its a dialect continuum. the same is true of romance languages < 1443912097 353549 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the recognition of status is massively political, you need only look at ulster scots to see that < 1443912112 89823 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we talk about French and Spanish and Italian and so on, but its a continuum, there's no line between the them < 1443912113 381398 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1443912114 908676 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily the japanese unfucked their spelling in the 1950's < 1443912116 980293 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for Dutch and German < 1443912137 220919 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1443912144 583400 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1443912147 507917 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages are like species < 1443912161 755670 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get all sorts of fun things in species < 1443912163 447414 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why i think it's silly to draw a line between 'everyday scottish english' and 'scots' < 1443912169 566871 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ring species are quite interesting < 1443912182 946536 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well when i say everyday scottish english i mean english, but with a scottish accent < 1443912192 339480 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the scottish with "ken" and stuff < 1443912256 918351 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but this started over the term 'vernacular', which i always understood to refer to the latter < 1443912293 596920 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might, in this context, i dont know. i mean, vernacular isnt a name, tho its sometimes incorporated into names < 1443912335 428959 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally if you want to just hear glaswegians saying shit, i recommend burnistoun) < 1443912341 855872 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: see they used to spell 「きょう」 as 「けふ」 < 1443912382 993921 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: burnistoun? < 1443912425 608192 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: indeed. more compact, none of those pesky small kana. < 1443912430 540083 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all my glaswegian needs, i just watch kevin bridges and frankie boyle :) < 1443912522 744691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but that's glaswegians on stage < 1443912533 771348 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :burnistoun is glaswegians portraying their natural habitat < 1443912568 869806 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw an episode of one of those trash shows with a guy bringing people out to sit in chairs and hes well known as a dick < 1443912584 402791 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they had some scottish people on, some glaswegians speaking very thick glaswegian english < 1443912587 32790 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg it was nuts :D < 1443912651 251820 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeremy kyle, i think is that guy? < 1443912663 114947 :MDude!~fyrc@c-73-175-58-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1443912804 198500 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing english spelling reform won't catch on until the dialects start to become unintelligible < 1443912820 137726 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le_uNGdpa4c < 1443913248 393227 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, yeah, burnistoun is like... halfway to that, throughout < 1443913314 441393 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :bridges and boyle are pitching to the entire uk, burnistoun was some regional bbc scotland thing so they didn't give a fuck who could understand it < 1443913389 529441 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they play in glasgow tho they hit the accent really hard < 1443913395 306037 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell the queen to tell the prime minister to cancel the EU. < 1443913406 431579 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fun to compare when boyle is on Mock vs when he's playing a room in glasgow < 1443913416 721669 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that's unlikely to work < 1443913418 447960 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially like during that small little indyref show he did < 1443913469 170577 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love their comedy omg < 1443913476 864807 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boyle and bridges are some of the best comedians ever < 1443913480 851786 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cancel the EU? like a show < 1443913489 850831 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :bridges' horse story was a masterpiece < 1443913496 885819 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: omg i know lmfao < 1443913519 700394 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a truly amazing moment < 1443913593 516134 :trout!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1443913607 317201 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkpyd2lr4dI < 1443913620 632616 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case anyone is wondering WTF Phantom_Hoover and i are talking about with horses :) < 1443913665 173064 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :though you need to understand the format: the story might be a lie, and he wins if he gets the other team to call it wrong < 1443913804 138885 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man i havent watched wilty in a while < 1443913810 307640 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should watch the new series < 1443913852 44217 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god for youtube, otherwise i'd never get to see all these great shows < 1443913969 467169 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what great shows? < 1443913985 335433 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :|I mean, which ones have you already watched? < 1443914044 258946 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Nevermind The Buzzcocks, Mock the Week, Would I Lie to You, and 8 out of 10 Cats < 1443914214 465386 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1443914810 849418 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-206-90.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1443915426 998583 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hijarcane! < 1443915955 301951 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1443916003 607795 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: nice porthello. mind if I steal it? < 1443916129 551739 :\oren\!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure go ahed < 1443916345 448844 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Phantom_Hoover, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cENbkHS3mnY