00:17:11 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:22:55 hppavilion[1]: of course that's possible, if you can add an interpreter option to tell the IDE the information 00:23:10 Oh right. 00:23:13 Um. 00:23:15 How? 00:23:25 I know the interpreter option part, but... 00:23:26 well you could print it to stderr perhaps 00:23:32 Oh. That works. 00:23:48 (We need a STDINF stream, don't we?) 00:24:36 well if you're using linuxy fork, you could also agree on another file descriptor number i guess 00:25:12 or you could use a named pipe 00:29:16 what would stdinf mean? 00:29:56 std info? 00:29:59 std infinity? 00:30:16 there should be an input equivalent of stderr 00:30:27 http://explosm.net/comics/4040/ 00:30:39 std infection 00:30:47 izabera: Standard Info 00:30:57 aww that's the most boring alternative 00:31:05 Phantom_Hoover: I suggested that. Check "Stream" on the wiki. 00:31:24 oerjan: Unfortunately, I'm a windows user, AND I prefer this to be cross-platform 00:31:39 don't be a windows user problem solved? 00:31:39 cygwin 00:31:52 Phantom_Hoover: that's much better 00:31:57 Phantom_Hoover: I would, but I haven't gotten around to dual booting yet. 00:32:04 * oerjan swats Phantom_Hoover on principle -----### 00:32:08 no need for dual 00:32:11 (I also do some light gaming, and games usually are made for windwos, so...) 00:32:18 *windows 00:32:20 anyway your stderrin is questionable, you should be able to pipe it 00:32:34 Phantom_Hoover: Oh right. You should add that to the wiki. 00:32:37 Wait, how? 00:32:45 How do you pipe normal stdin 00:33:10 i mean that semantically stderrin should be the stderr of the previous program in the pipe 00:33:23 Ooooooooooh 00:33:29 I prefer being able to complain 00:33:44 Wait, you /can/ pipe stderr into the next program 00:34:12 cat invalidFile 3> (cat > error.log) or something along those lines 00:34:18 Unless you mean multi-piping 00:34:18 nope 00:34:34 Wait, I did that wrong 00:34:41 cat invalidFile 3> error.log 00:34:45 better 00:34:48 Don't know why I added the extra cat... 00:35:03 I must just like cats too much 00:35:10 but stderr is usually 2 00:35:13 Cats in a pipe. 00:35:21 Oh right. Counting from 0. 00:35:28 fizzie: More likely, a tube. 00:35:48 00:35:55 can someone write a kernel with tube() instead of pipe() ? 00:35:55 s/>/\/> 00:36:11 izabera: I would if I knew how to write kernels 00:36:27 How about both tube() AND pipe()? 00:36:32 mind=blown 00:36:35 What would tube do that pipe doesn't? 00:36:41 In this scenario 00:36:42 Maybe be bidirectional? 00:36:54 Or more accurately, how would they be different? 00:36:55 Although I think at least Solaris' pipes are actually bidirectional. 00:36:56 Ooooh 00:36:57 YES bidi pipes are so much needed 00:36:59 INFINITE PIPE LOOP 00:37:20 Solaris also has doors, which is another whimsically named IPC construct. 00:37:38 How /does/ one write a kernel? 00:37:49 you need a pen and enough ink to write at least 6 letters 00:37:50 Does anyone here feel like /finally/ developing the EsOS? 00:38:09 izabera: No, 7 letters. "a kernel". 00:38:17 what about the spaaace 00:38:26 oh right it needs no ink 00:38:34 * hppavilion[1] claps 00:39:41 Well, I feel like finally getting around to the EsOS. Anyone who feels like helping should speak up. 00:39:48 is there any esoteric language that can be used by humans to speak? 00:39:55 (Optionally, I've created the channel #esoteric-os) 00:40:08 Huh, OpenBSD/FreeBSD (but not NetBSD) pipes are bidirectional too, according to their corresponding pipe(2) manpages. 00:40:08 izabera: Well Lojban is entirely unambiguous. 00:40:15 is that esoteric? 00:41:10 It's a spoken language based on predicate logic. 00:41:14 I would say... yes. 00:41:15 yes but 00:41:20 well i dunno 00:41:36 "Confined to and understandable by only an enlightened inner circle." 00:41:38 i feel that being unambiguous is a /start/, nothing more than a basic requirement 00:42:13 izabera: I meant unambiguous as being useful for being executed by a computer. 00:42:32 Seriously. EsOS. We need to get that made. 00:43:45 It would be like esolangs, but we would ascend to gods in the process. 00:44:25 Well. The movie was... odd, but it seemed more like it was making references to the books rather than being based on the books 00:44:34 Although I barely remember the books 00:44:47 fizzie: the man page says it appeared in system V r4 which is from 1989... why doesn't linux have this? 00:45:01 It's never been part of POSIXy things. 00:45:10 linux does a lot more than posix 00:46:58 i don't see why it's not more used, looks like a useful interface 00:47:33 So... I'm doing this myself? 00:47:51 hppavilion[1]: are you actually doing it? 00:47:52 izabera: I think because it wouldn't be at all portable anyway, and there's always socketpair when you do need it. 00:47:58 izabera: I hope so. 00:48:19 I know almmost nothing about OS development, and I was hoping for some help, but I can figure it out. 00:48:36 osdev.org 00:48:49 izabera: I know. I'm there 00:48:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:49:11 I'm also reading the Rust OS development readme and joining #rust-osdev on irc.mozilla.org 00:49:35 i think it'd be easier to first define which parts would be esoteric 00:49:48 izabera: I know 00:50:24 Well the shell will certainly be interesting. 00:50:25 isn't there a forth os? 00:50:30 Is there? 00:50:41 Perhaps a stacky shell? 00:50:54 There's certainly people running Forth on bare metal. 00:51:29 Does the Open Firmware stuff count? 00:51:39 There is a forth os it looks like. 00:52:30 colorForth I think is also a "Forth OS". 00:55:58 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:02:22 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:06:13 my vague impression was that Forth was *designed* to be used on bare metal. 01:06:52 hm i, too, seem to be transitioning from emphasizing with _ to emphasizing with *. silly markdown! 01:07:31 do you mean %silly% markdown 01:07:41 wat 01:08:07 it surely got your attention, didn't it? 01:08:12 SO markdown doesn't seem to recognize that. 01:08:19 of course it doesn't -.- 01:08:25 i made it up -.- 01:10:12 Forth could be used at any level, I think. 01:10:57 izabera: i hear markdown has so many variants, there's probably one that makes that mean something 01:15:33 oerjan: ...markdown allows both, I think, so you could stick to _underscores_ if you prefer 01:15:53 although *asterisks* seem to be more common 01:16:20 hm so it does 01:17:04 `true` 01:17:05 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: true`: not found 01:17:25 Whoops, didn't think that one through. 01:17:58 TOO LATE NOW 01:19:21 `` true `` 01:19:22 No output. 01:19:52 `true` 01:20:34 Curiously zsh allows `` but chokes on $() 01:23:45 -!- variable has joined. 01:23:49 Hi variable 01:30:35 I think I have to go for now 01:30:37 Bai 01:32:16 -!- bender| has joined. 01:35:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:39:36 -!- mauris_ has joined. 01:40:35 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:42:19 -!- bender| has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:52:14 When I try to print a PCL document to the "HP Laserjet P1102w" printer, the light just blink instead of printing; do you know what is wrong? (I tried to phone them, they couldn't help) 01:57:38 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 01:58:22 -!- jaboja has joined. 02:02:59 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 40.0.2/20150812163655]). 02:13:21 -!- ^v has joined. 02:14:53 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:19:12 <\oren\> try taking the ink out and shaking it hard, then putting it back in 02:22:29 -!- bb010g has joined. 02:25:15 Do you know how ZjStream format is working? I found a document but it doesn't quite explain everything 02:54:34 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:03:46 Actually, apparently it supports "ZJS,URF,PCLm,PJL,ACL,HTTP". What is PCLm? 03:06:54 It seems that PCLm is a subset of PDF, and seems to have nothing to do with PCL. But I don't know what URF and ACL mean either. 03:11:56 -!- jaboja has joined. 03:14:50 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:15:03 Hellu 03:17:48 <\oren\> hellau! 03:19:26 Setting up a cross-compiler is hard :,( 03:19:49 <\oren\> it is a huge pain in the ass 03:20:15 And I might have to set up more than one in my lifetime 03:20:37 <\oren\> usually you have to compile the compiler from source to make it work 03:21:02 Do I have to get all the stuff from http://wiki.osdev.org/GCC_Cross-Compiler#Downloading_the_Source_Code by hand, or can I just get the binutils stuff and have it come with? 03:21:26 <\oren\> not sure 03:22:48 I'm trying to build https://github.com/thepowersgang/rust-barebones-kernel as practice and it says I need a cross-compiling binutils for i586-elf or x86_64-elf 03:23:26 <\oren\> huh? 03:23:35 <\oren\> tht doesn't make sense 03:23:51 <\oren\> are you not ON either of those? 03:24:17 <\oren\> what OS and cpu do you have? 03:27:14 Wait, what? 03:27:49 \oren\: I'm running Windows 10 on... not sure what the cpu is, to tell the truth. Or even what cpu names sound like. The core is an i5 I think. 03:28:01 <\oren\> Ah. 03:28:29 <\oren\> so the issue is you need an EXE that can create ELF's. got it 03:28:53 \oren\: It says I need A recent (1.0 nightly) build of rustc, A suitable cross-compiling copy of binutils (i586-elf or x86_64-elf), and A copy of the libcore source in .../libcore (synlink will do), so I'm getting those. 03:29:04 (Copied directly from the readme) 03:29:32 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 03:29:45 \oren\: The windows 10 is because I'm lazy and my parents raised me on windows. 03:30:08 Evil parents. Pure, windows infused evil. 03:30:46 <\oren\> I grew up on Red Hat linux dual boot with Win98 03:32:38 -!- adu has joined. 03:32:46 <\oren\> I first learned to program with Perl and Visual Basic 03:32:52 So I did git clone git://sourceware.org/git/binutils-gdb.git. Am I on the right track, or am I doing something entirely wrong? 03:33:02 \oren\: I'm feel so bad for you 03:33:07 \oren\: I think I started on .bats and VBscript. 03:33:19 hppavilion[1]: what's a "bats"? 03:33:27 adu: I meant ".bat"s 03:33:33 .bat is a windows batch file 03:33:38 <\oren\> basically window's anemic version of a shell script 03:33:40 oh, I've never used Windows 03:33:55 I grew up on Mac and Linux 03:34:19 adu: I've been meaning to get a linux distribution running on here (dual-boot), but I'm too lazy. I'll do it someday. 03:34:29 <\oren\> for windows automation, .bat's are ok, but I prefer to write a little VB program 03:34:31 Make that day today! 03:34:49 hppavilion[1]: I used to dual-boot and triple-boot back in the day, but now I just use VMs 03:34:52 zgrep: No disk/drive to burn the iso to. 03:34:55 <\oren\> why dual boot when you can get a server in the cloud 03:35:04 hppavilion[1]: Not even a usb? 03:35:16 zgrep: Not one big enough. Don't think there are any around here. 03:35:30 A small distro isn't *that* big... 03:35:37 ...unless it's a really tiny flash drive. 03:35:51 <\oren\> do you have a 2GB or larger one 03:36:01 I used to work with a guy who had dreams of running a company. We were discussing what computers he was going to give employees. He wanted to put all the programmers on Windows. I went to a lot of effort to explain to him he was being a fucking moron. I failed. 03:36:10 <\oren\> really 1GB should be enough 03:36:12 zgrep: \oren\: Nope. 03:36:21 Not that I know of 03:36:28 hppavilion[1]: What's the maximum you know of... 03:36:36 zgrep: Not sure. 03:36:41 Don't know where it is to test it. 03:37:13 Plug it in, it should say it somewhere. 03:37:19 Ah. 03:37:21 Mis-read. 03:38:35 hppavilion[1]: well, it's irrelevant if he was being a moron, you should have showed him than unix programmers are 2571% more productive than windows programmers 03:38:42 <\oren\> but like I said you can get a cloud server. in particular, you can use AWS's free tier to get a free linux box to do stuff on 03:38:51 Can't find it. 03:38:56 But my dad says he has one. 03:39:05 adu: Nice statistic. 03:39:34 zgrep: did you know that 76.3% of statistics are invented on the spot? 03:39:48 adu: I did. 03:39:58 <\oren\> https://aws.amazon.com/free/ <-- a free linux box for one whole year 03:40:12 adu: It seems to have risen from last year's 73.9%. 03:41:19 I wonder what the standard deviation of that is 03:42:41 adu: 6+27i% 03:42:48 lol 03:42:50 (Complex probability... Mmmm....) 03:45:00 Ubuntu's good, correct? 03:45:11 <\oren\> xubuntu is better. 03:45:39 I don't feel like downloading another many-gigabyte file. 03:46:04 I prefer Debian over Ubuntu 03:46:10 <\oren\> eh. actually if you don't mind windows 10, ubuntu will be fine for you 03:46:41 granted, VirtualBox supports Ubuntu out-of-the-box, but I recently figured out how to install VBox additions on Debian, so I'm super-happy now 03:46:47 <\oren\> 03:47:19 \oren\: I've never used Windows 10 03:48:15 <\oren\> you should hope never to encounter it. Win8 and win10 are indescribable horrors of UI design 03:48:59 well, whenever I encounter Windows at work, I usually find a way to get my employer to buy a mac, or let me install Linux instead 03:49:36 I did use a computer with Win8 once; it is not much difficulty to use, all the WIN+R and ALT+F4 and ALT+TAB and cmd.exe and so on seem working same as in older versions of Windows 03:49:41 <\oren\> I use a macbook pro at work, but I connected a proper keyboard and a three button mouse mouse 03:49:48 Win10 is a massive improvement over Win8 03:50:03 (They got rid of the bathroom tiles, thank faust) 03:50:09 <\oren\> and a external monitor too 03:50:20 hppavilion[1]: what's bathroom tiles? 03:50:26 <\oren\> eh. Win10 still LOOKS terible 03:50:36 The default theme is pretty bad. 03:50:41 I did have to hide the search bar. 03:50:54 Or maybe I just switched it to something that looks bad xD 03:50:55 <\oren\> adu: I see you are living in blissful ignorance of the horrific tiles. 03:51:36 How much space should I make for ubuntu? It's a ~800 gb drive 03:51:53 (706 free) 03:52:03 hppavilion[1]: at least 20G 03:52:10 What do you recommend though? 03:52:12 Although the main menu is clearly different, the old keyboard commands are still working, and cmd.exe is still working, so it doesn't seem much of a problem to figure out. 03:52:14 <\oren\> they are rectangular tiles with nothing that looks in any way familiar to eye, scattered in colors across a screen that has neither taskbar nor separate windows 03:52:16 -!- bender| has joined. 03:52:22 hppavilion[1]: I usually go halvsies 03:52:36 adu: That's what I was thinking 03:53:16 \oren\: oh, I thought that was called "Metro" which when I first read about it, thought it was the trains in the DC area 03:53:24 But my own computer is now OEM Ubuntu with 160 GB hard drive, although I removed the default window manager and desktop environment and installed i3-wm instead. 03:53:56 Wait. 03:54:02 You can switch window managers!? 03:54:07 <\oren\> yah 03:54:07 Yes. 03:54:13 hppavilion[1]: you can customize everything 03:54:29 My mind has been blown. Unfortunately, they don't have IRC in hell, so... 03:54:34 Bai! 03:54:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has left ("Fear Me"). 03:54:51 you can choose: window manager, themes, panels, widgets, backgrounds, colors 03:54:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:55:02 Wait, what? 03:55:08 the only thing you can't choose is the widget toolkit, the app chooses that 03:55:08 How- how am I back on this side? 03:55:14 HOw long has it been? 03:55:18 HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN!? 03:55:21 <\oren\> 1 minute 03:55:25 Oh 03:55:26 Really? 03:55:27 Wow. 03:55:35 Hell's relativity is REALLY screwed up 03:55:48 so if you have a Gtk app, it uses Gtk, forever! 03:55:57 if you have a Qt app, then it will always use Qt 03:56:05 <\oren\> YAY I fixed it! 03:56:36 I just went into aptitude and told it to install i3-wm and uninstall the other stuff, and then when I started X next time, it just worked; I did not need to do anything else. However, I did later configure it so that the setting and so on are changed, although it worked even without that. 03:57:02 <\oren\> I generally use either LXDE or XFCE 03:57:10 hppavilion[1]: you can choose: window manager, themes, panels, widgets, backgrounds, colors 03:57:41 <\oren\> however, right now I'm using Windows 7 03:58:05 adu: Yes, I know, I like the Athena widgets but Firefox is not using them 03:58:22 <\oren\> i.e. the last windows before Microsoft dove into satan's mouth 03:58:29 Firefox has it's own themes 03:59:03 I think because it's toolkit is XUL 03:59:07 Firefox is using XUL, I think 03:59:23 <\oren\> there is not toolkit. there is only XUL 03:59:30 it's not really a toolkit, but it plays a similar role 03:59:49 But is there the way to code XUL overlays or whatever, in order to change how scrollbars act and so on? 04:00:04 So that it can be made to work like Athena scrollbars. 04:00:18 definitely 04:00:31 but most themes do boring stuff like change the background :P 04:01:26 I should probably back things up before I do this xD 04:02:23 How do I put files in a .tar.gz from windows? 04:02:29 Is that even possible? 04:02:35 With about:config, Classic Theme Restorer, userChrome.css, and userChrome.js, you can do a lot more than just changing the background; I have done many thing 04:02:54 hppavilion[1]: Cygwin or MinGW 04:03:05 Ah. 04:03:17 And what command would I use? 04:03:20 hppavilion[1]: Yes, although I think not using built-in software. I have used 7-Zip. First you create the .tar by something like "7z a file.tar @ziplist" or whatever, and then "7z a file.tar.gz file.tar" I think. 04:03:35 hppavilion[1]: there's probably a simpler way with like WinTar or 7-Zip or something 04:03:56 I know 7-Zip supports those formats, although I have not used it to create .tar.gz, only to open them. 04:03:57 I want to do it the h4xx0ry way 04:04:36 xD 04:05:39 I have created .tar.gz only on Linux systems, where the command is: tar c `cat ziplist` | gzip 04:05:53 And then to extract it the command is: zcat | tar x 04:06:42 zzo38: I usually do $(tar -czf ...) to create and $(tar -xzf ...) to extract 04:08:28 hppavilion[1]: but I think that requires that you have libz installed, which requires a decent environment, which requires either Cygwin or MinGW 04:08:52 I do have MinGW 04:08:57 GNU tar supports a lot of options, although I only ever use the "c", "t", and "x" options; most of the others seem worthless to me. 04:09:24 "To defuse the bomb, please enter a valid tar command on your first try" 04:09:27 "I- I'm so sorry" 04:10:41 lolol 04:12:08 To me, the pipes are the way it should be done; all of program should be acting as a filter, and then each program has a different function, such as one for archive and one for compression. Many programs don't do that but some do, including the ones I wrote (such as "amigamml" and "playmod"). 04:12:50 <\oren\> tar -xvf foo.tar 04:12:57 zzo38: agreed, but it's so inconsistent that way 04:13:28 <\oren\> `? tar 04:13:30 tar? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:13:38 Inconsistent? 04:13:54 https://xkcd.com/1161/ is amazing 04:14:18 zzo38: because then you have to know the command line options for gzip, bzip2, xzip, 7z, etc, or you can just use a single extra letter with tar, much simpler imho 04:15:15 Well, maybe. Although the default settings for gzip and zcat and tar seem working well enough? 04:15:43 $(tar xzf ...) also works, but it has the disadvantage of being compliant to tar history, but violates POSIX's own parameter guidelines 04:16:46 zzo38: Pipes? Why not tubes for online storage? 04:18:32 My program "amigamml" does not even support any command-line options; argc/argv are ignored. The output of amigamml is accepted as the input of playmod and the output of playmod is accepted as the input of aplay or sox so you can easily join them together in this way! 04:20:37 I have seen many different command-lines used with tar, although I would have omitted the "z" and "f" options if I had designed it by myself. 04:27:43 amigamml? 04:29:07 It is a program to make .MOD and .XM music files 04:29:31 Many other programs exist, but I didn't find any of the others very good so I made up my own 04:33:22 MUSICAL COMMAND LINE 04:36:47 <\oren\> hmmm what characters should I add to my font next? 04:38:46 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:39:27 Music 05:00:04 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:03:49 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:18:27 \oren\: still saying you should add rotated/mirrored variant glyphs for those punctuation characters that require it 05:26:40 \oren\: Levitating business man 05:26:45 Do you have emoji yet? 05:27:36 -!- JesseH has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:42:51 Hm... 05:44:58 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 05:58:01 `danddreclist 69 05:58:12 danddreclist 69: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 06:00:34 What is the bare minimum for a social network? 06:01:13 2 persons hth 06:01:25 shopping -> 06:02:01 -!- Drone_swarm has joined. 06:02:05 -!- Drone_swarm has quit (Client Quit). 06:02:49 oerjan: I mean the minimum stuff the site needs to support -_- 06:02:53 ._. 06:06:02 ::_:: <-- Spider 06:29:20 http://imgs.xkcd.com/blag/rms_katana.jpg 06:31:40 <\oren\> nice 06:44:27 <\oren\> ︰︱︲︳︴︵︶︷︸︹︺︻︼︽︾︿﹀﹁﹂﹃﹄ 06:46:35 <\oren\> b_jonas: there, vertical things! 06:50:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:52:21 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:52:30 I wonder if Randall Munroe has ever considered doing a long, continuitous storyline. 07:02:46 I don't know. 07:19:50 hppavilion[1]: um are you not familiar with Time 07:20:05 Oh rihgt. Time. 07:44:33 -!- hjulle has joined. 08:01:36 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:04:20 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 08:05:46 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:16:21 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:19:16 -!- gamemanj has joined. 08:31:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 08:55:15 [wiki] [[Radixal!!!!]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44835&oldid=43920 * Oerjan * (+4) /* Computational class */ link 08:57:55 [wiki] [[Brainfuck Sharp]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44836&oldid=44613 * Oerjan * (+0) /* Goal */ case 09:00:13 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Oerjan * moved [[Introduction to Esolang Design]] to [[Introduction to esolang design]]: The case is wrong, WRONG 09:12:28 [wiki] [[Introduction to esolang design]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44838&oldid=44837 * Oerjan * (+5) Less caps, more links 09:17:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:32:06 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:34:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 09:47:23 -!- FreeFull has joined. 09:47:47 -!- FreeFull has changed nick to Guest93383. 09:50:21 -!- mauris_ has joined. 09:56:25 -!- TieSoul has joined. 10:01:14 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:15:24 -!- TieSoul has joined. 10:26:04 -!- gniourf has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:28:44 -!- gniourf has joined. 10:32:03 [wiki] [[Labyrinth]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44839&oldid=44448 * Oerjan * (-12) links, grm, case 10:39:11 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44840&oldid=44770 * Oerjan * (+0) order 10:40:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 11:28:35 -!- bender| has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:29:07 -!- bender| has joined. 11:29:07 -!- bender| has quit (Changing host). 11:29:07 -!- bender| has joined. 11:34:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:36:42 -!- zgrep has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:39:37 -!- zgrep has joined. 11:49:54 -!- kallisti has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 11:52:23 -!- kallisti has joined. 11:59:04 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:03:46 -!- Guest93383 has quit (Changing host). 12:03:46 -!- Guest93383 has joined. 12:03:56 -!- Guest93383 has changed nick to FreeFull. 12:16:17 <\oren\> good mroing 12:19:27 Hi, \oren\ 12:22:33 [wiki] [[SMBF]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44841 * SuperJedi224 * (+38) Redirected page to [[Self-modifying Brainfuck]] 12:28:52 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:29:35 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BRB). 12:29:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:04:41 http://www.lispcast.com/img/typing.png is cute 13:05:45 is there a scheme or lisp with hindley-milner typing? 13:06:57 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 13:19:04 -!- boily has joined. 13:32:18 int-e: typed racket maybe? 13:47:59 -!- tromp_ has quit. 13:52:18 -!- rdococ has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 13:52:22 -!- tromp_ has joined. 13:53:07 Taneb: looks good, thanks 13:53:55 -!- rdococ has joined. 13:54:31 [wiki] [[3var]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44842&oldid=41125 * LegionMammal978 * (-10) minor fixes 13:54:40 -!- lleu has joined. 14:19:41 -!- rdococ has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:38:38 david_werecat.atom: points -2.76, score 17.72, rank 28/47 (+11) 14:52:56 -!- rdococ has joined. 14:57:49 -!- alyyy has joined. 14:59:08 hey peeps. is there a way I can download the entire esolang wiki? like a site backup? 15:07:04 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 15:15:35 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:16:00 -!- Lyka has joined. 15:16:04 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98841263/HYDRA%200005B%20Commands.pdf 15:16:22 make any sense? 15:18:56 -!- mauris_ has changed nick to mauris. 15:21:17 -!- Wright has joined. 15:21:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:26:57 -!- FreeFull has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:28:46 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:38:01 -!- JesseH has joined. 15:43:24 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:45:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:52:47 <\oren\> is there a Lisp with Forth-style untyping? 15:56:47 Lyka, err 15:57:13 how do you set the values of a[1] and a[2]? 15:57:30 If I understand you correctly, a[1-3] are kind of like registers, right? 15:58:15 actually, a[1-8] 15:58:45 um...they are read from file 15:59:13 Oh, I'm sorry, can I have some background on this? 15:59:42 some background: i asked here by mistake 15:59:51 lol. 16:00:55 <\oren\> OH god damn it mom, it is your "macbook air" not your "baby computer". it did not come from two imacs fucking. 16:01:32 boily: hello 16:01:50 <\oren\> tech support for family members is irritating. hi quintopia 16:01:56 i see david_werecat wants to get back in the game 16:06:22 \oren\: No, she's saying it's meant for babies 16:07:59 <\oren\> hmm... no, it would have to be waterproof and bale to be thrown repeatedly across the room for that 16:08:51 . o O ( quintopia is taking #esoteric customs to ##math? ) 16:08:57 <\oren\> I once threw my gameboy into the Pacific Ocean and retrieved it, it still worked 16:09:25 ive taken them everywhere for people i like 16:09:49 <\oren\> what;s ##math about 16:10:02 language arts 16:10:04 astonishingly often, mathematics. 16:10:16 (highschool level, mostly) 16:10:40 <\oren\> I see. my dad teaches that 16:11:01 nice 16:11:04 <\oren\> (he teaches the remdial calculus for people who didn't take it in high school) 16:11:50 <\oren\> It's crazy how many people don't take calculus in high school and then choose a major that needs calculus 16:11:52 . o O ( rem-dial looks too much like a real thing ) 16:12:04 -!- Lyka has left. 16:13:20 Hmm, IIRC my comp sci curriculum was virtually free of calculus... 16:13:56 int-e, mine definitely is 16:14:09 <\oren\> I took advanced calculus and topology and number theory just beacasue I thought I'd do well in them, they weren't required 16:14:09 (there was linear algebra, some combinatorics, abstract algebra, logic, a bit of number theory...) 16:14:25 A lot of statistics in mine 16:14:29 And algebra 16:14:35 And graph theory 16:14:59 <\oren\> yah. statistics sometimes turns into calculus though 16:15:10 I try to avoid it 16:15:36 Hmm I'm not sure how the machine learning people dealt with the lack of calculus. 16:15:45 There's some "knowing differential calculus kind of helps" in the optimization module I'm doing now, but that's in maths, not CS 16:17:13 <\oren\> in my machine learning course they gave you the integrals you needed 16:17:35 <\oren\> (in one case the answer sheet had it wrong, however) 16:17:38 once i got more into theoretical cs in my masters, calculus was marginally more useful 16:18:06 (calc was required for undergrad, but not diffeq. i still dont know diffeq) 16:18:16 [wiki] [[3var]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44843&oldid=44842 * LegionMammal978 * (-1) /* Language Overview */ 16:20:14 <\oren\> anyway it's hard to get anywhere with stats on continuous distributions without using the fact that a distribution is something you integrate to get a value 16:21:28 <\oren\> This is something I had to expain recently to my best friend who is taking statistical mechanics 16:23:09 <\oren\> a distribution on x is a function f(x) such that f(x) is between 0 and 1 and if you integrate it over all x you get 1. to get the average of any expression of x like g(x) you integrate g(x)f(x) 16:27:13 <\oren\> this is apparently not covered in the basic stats course. idiots 16:27:32 <\oren\> luckily i took advanced stats 16:39:31 i should eat a food 16:43:45 Good idea 16:45:27 -!- qwertyo has joined. 16:53:03 -!- jaboja has joined. 16:56:42 <\oren\> hmm ︻ looks like a mouth open in horror 16:56:58 <\oren\> or maybe just the way I drew it 17:03:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:14:38 I thought of some idea of Magic: the Gathering card: Whenever ~ would be destroyed (whether by a state-based effect or otherwise) while there are any -1/-1 counters on it, instead remove a -1/-1 counter from ~ (do not remove any marked damage). 17:17:32 ~? 17:21:42 Taneb: It's replaced with the name of the card. 17:23:10 Right 17:30:08 -!- bender| has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:48:47 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92-rdmsoft [XULRunner 35.0.1/20150122214805]). 17:50:40 \oren\: do you have the mirrored parenthesis and question mark too? 17:50:59 though probably that's less important because you won't be writing arabic with this font 17:51:43 -!- alyyy has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:52:15 \oren\: vertical quotation marks. nice. 17:52:37 \oren\: wait, isn't there a vertical version of the Chinese comma and period too, used in some language? 17:53:02 \oren\: and where's the vertical kana long vowel mark? 17:53:52 \oren\: definitely do the vertical long vowel mark. you can't write vertical text without that. 17:56:57 <\oren\> Oh. Yeah I'll add vertical period and comma. Also I'm adding the Deseret and Shavian alphabets 17:59:58 <\oren\> I'm taking a short break from adding nothing but kanji 18:00:00 \oren\: apparently there are multiple different placements of the full stop in vertical writing, for some of mainland Chinese, Taiwan Chinese, Japanese. Some of these may coincide with the horizontal writing comma. 18:00:21 But the vertical long vowel mark is the most important, I think 18:00:33 -!- ^v has joined. 18:00:34 because you often see it in advertizments 18:01:40 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 18:02:04 <\oren\> Hi J_Arcane 18:02:12 allo 18:02:48 <\oren\> I should also add the ideographic description characters 18:02:57 \oren\: also, it's rare but easy to draw, so add the "　" (fullwidth space, for Chinese script) 18:09:31 :t ord 18:09:32 Char -> Int 18:09:38 Why is that called ord? 18:10:04 because asc is what everbody would've guessed? 18:10:06 Taneb: I think it's a tradition, that's what it's called in pascal too. the alternative is ASC which is horribl 18:10:17 because Char isn't necessarily an ascii character 18:10:47 \oren\: the vertical ellipsis ⋮ , I think it should go down below the descender, spread out more 18:11:04 \oren\: that character is used to indicate more rows in a table or matrix for example 18:12:40 \oren\: and your ⟦ look wrong. it should be a double vertical line with just a single horizontal line, which in a proportional font looks similar to two overlapping [ horizontally offset from each other 18:12:51 \oren\: it's used in some maths or compsci writing as a delimiter 18:13:48 is remedial calculus anything like remedial differential geometry? 18:18:03 <\oren\> I'm not sure how similar. I've never taken differentiol geometry, and I've only ever graded, not taken, remedial calculus 18:18:28 <\oren\> (one year my dad's TA's were more incompetent than usual) 18:20:41 <\oren\> so I got roped in to help grade 150 or so exams 18:21:50 <\oren\> b_jonas: got it. I'll adjust those characters 18:25:35 <\oren\> seriously though, at York University sometimes people don't get their grades back until a few months into the next term 18:27:29 At my old university, there was technically a guaranteed 30-day SLA in getting exam grades. 18:27:33 But it was broken quite often. 18:28:11 \oren\, York University? 18:28:24 Would you believe I'm at a university with an almost identical name? 18:28:29 (University of York) 18:30:50 <\oren\> Heh. my dad went to a confusing conference there once 18:31:16 There's someone in the CS department here who is a professor here and also at York University 18:38:40 -!- evalj has joined. 18:44:20 questino, in http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?International+Radiotelephony+Spelling+Alphabet for the 156 byte post-mortem leading solution of teebee(llhuii), why is -ray double-quoted? would it break something later if it wasn't quoted? 18:44:30 this is perl, so -ray evaluates to "-ray" just fine 18:45:10 though it might not actually be shorter because the omeo uses the letter m that's already there 18:45:56 but that would let the first line end in omeo, 18:46:31 then the next line would start with probably mebec followed by something 18:47:08 probably with mebec^n^v 18:47:27 hmm 18:47:47 I should try to see if I can shorten it this way, but since it's post-mortem, feel free to do it faster. 18:52:21 ... not that I haven't had my share of pointlessly losing a character in a golf for quoting something that needn't be quoted 19:03:06 i'm trying to complete a codeeval challenge in bash but it's timing out 19:03:36 the challenge is this https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/42/ 19:03:46 and this is my code http://arin.ga/yeBjHx/raw 19:03:57 is the algorithm terribly inefficient? 19:05:31 izabera: or you have a bug? 19:05:48 i don't know 19:05:52 i think it's correct 19:11:44 can you find any example that produces an incorrect result? :\ 19:14:33 I think I've been working on this programming language of mine for... several weeks now? 19:14:49 It's finally at the point where you can define some stuff. 19:14:53 For example, the number three: 19:15:00 three = succ (succ (succ zero)) 19:15:08 And an add-two function: 19:15:14 add_two x = succ (succ x) 19:15:31 And for something super fancy, here's something that takes two numbers and returns the first one, two plus the second, and three plus the first: 19:15:35 tswett: is it called peano? :P 19:15:49 fancy (x,y) = (x, succ (succ y), succ (succ (succ x))) 19:16:07 izabera: sump'm like that. 19:17:46 `swedish fancy (x,y) = (x, succ (succ y), succ (succ (succ x))) 19:17:57 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: swedish: not found 19:18:08 No? 19:18:52 Where did the swedifier go? 19:19:18