00:00:10 <shachaf> but this is the first one that made his eyes green
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00:02:22 <boily> I stand corrected.
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00:52:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nary]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44904&oldid=44902 * Conor O'Brien * (+1734)
00:56:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Nary]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44905&oldid=44904 * Conor O'Brien * (+127)
00:57:34 <\oren\> Isabel Hoffmann is a nutcase
00:58:52 <\oren\> https://pando.com/2015/10/22/what-hell-facing-backlash-tellspec-ceo-now-flatly-denies-it-was-her-who-emailed-messaged-or-called-pando-threaten-lawsuit/
00:59:39 <\oren\> I'm glad Dad got out while he could
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01:01:55 <\oren\> fizzie: are those characters you want me to add?
01:04:10 <fizzie> \oren\: I'm not using your font, so I don't have opinions on its repertoire, except that I think when it comes to arrows, you should add in full blocks instead of individual characters.
01:05:32 <\oren\> I shoudl go thorugh some of the blocks for gaps
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01:11:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Conor O'Brien]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44906&oldid=44901 * Conor O'Brien * (+25)
01:22:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Simplex]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44907 * Conor O'Brien * (+315) Created page with "'''Simplex''' is an in-progress, single-command programming language made by [[User:Conor O'Brien]]. It can be thought of also as a 1D language. It is expected to be in a work..."
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01:26:16 <izabera> totally confused, this http://arin.ga/fi2bCF/raw scores 97.5% on this https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/211/
01:28:42 <Lymia> Does that account for letter case?
01:29:18 <Lymia> The specification is weird.
01:29:23 <izabera> well i tried with the case insensitive option and it still scored 97.5%
01:29:31 <Lymia> Are we supposed to assume two names will never match all the letters?
01:33:47 <Lymia> I don't think so. But a site like this should at least say something about such an obvious edge condition.
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01:34:14 <Lymia> "Chardonnay Sauvignon | ann"
01:34:20 <Lymia> Would your program get this test case right?
01:34:31 <Lymia> I assume it means you have to match two ns, and not something with only one
01:34:55 <Lymia> ... not that the specification says that
01:41:31 <fizzie> It also doesn't say what should happen if Tom remembered no letters. Not that they're likely to test that either.
01:50:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Luis Mendo * New user account
01:51:12 <\oren\> I got a new mp3 player
01:54:28 <\oren\> it has the abilty to pick up FM radio and save it to an mp3 file
01:56:16 <zgrep> Let's start a revolution, then.
01:57:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44908 * Luis Mendo * (+1013) Created page with "'''MATL''' is a programming language based on MATLAB and suitable for code golfing. The MATL language is [[stack]]-oriented. Data are pushed onto and popped out of a stack. F..."
02:01:33 <fizzie> MATLAB for code golfing.
02:15:50 <izabera> a huge library helps with golfing
02:20:08 <zgrep> To a certain extent.
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02:22:52 <izabera> that's why mathematica is so used on codegolf.se
02:32:04 <Lymia> Something occurs to me.
02:34:17 <zgrep> How often does such a thing happen?
02:34:37 <Lymia> For code golf purposes, why exactly are we sticking to printable characters, one command per character again
02:34:44 * Lymia kicks zgrep in the crotch
02:36:36 <zgrep> Lymia: Though it's no longer really active, http://rhoscript.com/. And there are other languages that overload characters.
02:37:08 <zgrep> But probably to be easier to type.
03:05:12 <FireFly> Lymia: there's a number of languages intended to work around that, but on codegolf.SE that is generally frowned upon
03:05:53 <FireFly> or rather, they consider it a "standard loophole" and usually measure code in bytes of UTF-8, or bytes-of-encoding-of-your-choice or such when it gets down to it
03:06:19 <FireFly> although that means you could still define meaning to bytes outside the ASCII range
03:06:57 <Lymia> I'm not talking about that at all.
03:07:51 <FireFly> maybe I misunderstood then
03:07:55 <Lymia> Non-printable characters means... you know. "bytes outside the ASCII range" :|
03:08:12 <Lymia> And "one command per character" refers to not using bit encodings if you can't actually fill 8 bits per command
03:11:45 <FireFly> So something like using Huffman coding from the commads?
03:12:13 <Lymia> Something like that
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04:55:12 <Jafet> perl eval unpack is pretty standard these days.
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06:52:15 <b_jonas> oh, someone has rang the obell
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08:42:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TeaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44909&oldid=44900 * 160.85.232.162 * (+31) + cat:golfing language
08:45:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Sclipting]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44910&oldid=44385 * 160.85.232.162 * (+30) + cat:golfing language
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08:53:04 <lambdabot> oerjan said 13h 54m 56s ago: <mroman> can you discard results without generating a warning? <-- yes. e.g. _ <- ...
08:53:04 <lambdabot> oerjan said 13h 53m 44s ago: <mroman> I assume thats bad, otherwise there wouldn't be a warning <-- not necessarily, some warnings are very advisory, and that particular one is rather annoying to always silence (disclaimer: i don't use -Wall)
08:53:04 <lambdabot> oerjan said 13h 50m 42s ago: <mroman> Apparentely FlexibleContexts is required as of 7.10 <-- it's more subtle than that. it was always required for type signatures, but now ghc requires extensions even for a purely inferred signature.
08:53:04 <lambdabot> oerjan said 13h 49m 27s ago: I find that last feature rather annoying myself, especially in ghci.
08:53:21 <mroman> oerjan: _ <- is exactly what generates a warning.
08:54:47 <oerjan> mroman: no, it doesn't.
08:54:48 <mroman> or maybe I'm remembering it wrong
08:55:06 <oerjan> it's what the warning suggests you do...
08:56:18 <mroman> Maybe mapM_ will shut it up too
08:56:33 <mroman> I think you can discard (), right?
08:58:16 <mroman> I also have dozens of "defined but not used" warnings.
08:58:50 <oerjan> you're supposed to use _ as prefix for unused variables
08:58:56 <mroman> Defaulting the following constraint(s) to type ‘Integer’ (Integral a0) arising from a use of ‘fromIntegral’
08:59:00 <mroman> ^- and a couple of these
08:59:09 <oerjan> yes, those are annoying
08:59:20 <mroman> How do you get rid of those?
08:59:53 <mroman> In the first argument of ‘(/)’, namely
08:59:53 <mroman> ‘fromIntegral (round (n * factor))’
08:59:54 <mroman> In the expression: fromIntegral (round (n * factor)) / factor
09:00:30 <oerjan> -fno-warn-type-defaults, i think https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/flag-reference.html#idp14879296
09:00:45 <mroman> I don't want to silence the warning, I want to get rid of it ;)
09:00:57 <oerjan> then you need a type annotation
09:01:59 <oerjan> and you can never write simple code like x^2 + 2*x + 1 again hth
09:02:08 <mroman> I like how ghc can infer stuff
09:02:25 <mroman> but on the other hand you should always specify the exact type
09:02:41 <oerjan> i'm talking about for the ^2 exponent.
09:02:54 <oerjan> it doesn't matter if x is fixed
09:03:33 <mroman> you mean I have to write x^(2::Int) or something like that?
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09:44:39 <b_jonas> Wow, you can find some nice useful software libraries on the internet if you just look
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10:12:43 <mroman> Well, I've managed to train my neural network to calculate f(x) = 1 - x
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10:13:17 <b_jonas> mroman: great, in what representation of numbers?
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10:15:02 <mroman> I'm a total ANN newbie
10:15:32 <mroman> http://codepad.org/Qwc2S0vu
10:15:43 <mroman> I've trained it with f(1), f(0) and f(0.5)
10:15:54 <mroman> and it manages to do f(0.2) f(0.8) f(0.4) correctly based on that
10:16:22 <b_jonas> mroman: oh, so is this a neutral network that takes real numbers as its input and output, and does real number calculations on it? I see
10:16:26 <mroman> out is the output neuron, in the input neuron
10:16:49 <mroman> out <- b_3 means that neuron b_3 is connected to out
10:16:56 <mroman> and the numbers are the weights
10:17:12 <j-bot> b_jonas: 0 1 0.5 0.6 0.8 0.2
10:18:06 <b_jonas> [ |4.5810405179002624E-10 0.9999999990583239 0.49999999975821413 0.5999999996182361 0.7999999993382801 0.2000000001781481 - 1 - 1 0 0.5 0.4 0.2 0.8
10:18:06 <j-bot> b_jonas: |ill-formed number
10:18:12 <b_jonas> [ |4.5810405179002624e-10 0.9999999990583239 0.49999999975821413 0.5999999996182361 0.7999999993382801 0.2000000001781481 - 1 - 1 0 0.5 0.4 0.2 0.8
10:18:12 <j-bot> b_jonas: |ill-formed number
10:18:18 <b_jonas> [ |4.5810405179002624e_10 0.9999999990583239 0.49999999975821413 0.5999999996182361 0.7999999993382801 0.2000000001781481 - 1 - 1 0 0.5 0.4 0.2 0.8
10:18:19 <j-bot> b_jonas: 4.58104e_10 9.41676e_10 2.41786e_10 3.81764e_10 6.6172e_10 1.78148e_10
10:18:49 <mroman> errsum = 1.9925257041341184E-8
10:18:58 <b_jonas> [ +/|4.5810405179002624e_10 0.9999999990583239 0.49999999975821413 0.5999999996182361 0.7999999993382801 0.2000000001781481 - 1 - 1 0 0.5 0.4 0.2 0.8
10:18:59 <mroman> that's pretty close, yes ;)
10:18:59 <j-bot> b_jonas: 2.8632e_9
10:19:06 <fizzie> Isn't it amazing, how complicated mappings a neural network may learn!
10:19:27 <mroman> Now I'm gonna teach it to square the shit out of numbers
10:20:16 <fizzie> Did you know that a feed-forward network with a single finite hidden layer is a universal approximator?
10:22:32 <mroman> looks like it can't learn how to square stuff
10:24:03 <fizzie> It can certainly learn how to square stuff within an interval, if you have enough training data and neurons.
10:24:17 <fizzie> Or, well, how to approximately square stuff.
10:25:02 <mroman> an error sum of 276 is too high
10:25:12 <mroman> that means: no fucking way this network with this layout can learn to do that
10:29:21 <b_jonas> mroman: or more input samples
10:30:24 <mroman> I need to teach my neurons to not only sum up inputs
10:30:35 <mroman> the problem is with the usual weight * input
10:30:44 <mroman> you can't get from a input 0 to an output of 1
10:30:57 <mroman> errsum_new := 0.07792577232358111
10:31:24 <mroman> oh well that's fairly close
10:31:31 <b_jonas> mroman: you could try to teach it x*(1-x) instead
10:31:40 <mroman> http://codepad.org/oGJGUfjv
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10:36:57 <fizzie> The "usual" weight * input? That's not the usual. The usual is weight * input + bias.
10:46:00 <Jafet> Ah yes, universal approximation theorem: for any continuous monotone function, there exists a neural network that kinda vaguely resembles that function, and your backprop may or may not find it.
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10:52:50 <boily> Jafellot. isn't that an extremely weak theorem: for every thing that exists, there exists something else that may or may not be found.
10:53:33 <fizzie> There's also a number of things that don't exist, though.
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11:00:07 <gamemanj> boily: It says your backprop may or may not find it... if you brute-forced every single possible neural net, you may find it.
11:01:03 <mroman> http://codepad.org/JqS87pTF
11:01:10 <mroman> That's as close as my weird-network can get
11:01:29 <mroman> which is reasonably close
11:11:34 <boily> all neurons are weird.
11:11:35 <mroman> let's see if it can learn factorial
11:12:53 <mroman> f(9) := 450467.7218227489
11:15:58 <boily> > abs (450467.72 - 362880) / 362880 * 100
11:16:09 <boily> only 24% relative error. not so bad.
11:17:18 <b_jonas> mroman: try to make it learn a step function
11:20:00 <b_jonas> mroman: eg. similar to the function 0.16329<=x&&x<0.69431 to which http://dpaste.com/240EM18 gives input-output pairs
11:21:20 <mroman> I'm actually more "evolving" it
11:22:27 <b_jonas> http://plotshare.com/index.ws/plot/645669689 gives a plot
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11:25:13 <mroman> f(6) := 720.0000109336563
11:25:13 <mroman> f(7) := 5040.0007788950525
11:25:14 <mroman> f(8) := 40320.00003472659
11:25:14 <mroman> f(9) := 335186.6552867455
11:25:34 <mroman> still not really accurate :(
11:25:59 <mroman> It's accurate within the trained range
11:26:58 <j-bot> b_jonas: 720 5040 40320 362880
11:33:25 <mroman> so there's some randomness involved in training actually
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11:50:50 <HackEgo> Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire in frequent conflict with Turkey. After a famine it sort of split into Ostrich/Hungry. Alas its policy of keeping its head in the sand did not get it through the Great War, and with its final attempts to take flight failing, it ended up cut into several pieces.
11:51:11 <Jafet> (just found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Imperial_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Empire_of_Austria.svg)
11:55:24 <mroman> f(9) := 363064.5772012372
11:55:39 <mroman> f(10) := 3622810.622599557
11:56:27 <mroman> > fromIntegral (product [1..11]) - 3.9573572239199296E7
11:57:53 <Jafet> Learning the gamma function?
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12:35:26 <mroman> ok... why is my last line shown twice
12:38:51 <FireFly> mroman: perhaps you could see if it manages to approximate the gamma function between integers in the range you have trained it for
12:39:39 <FireFly> or train with integers 1,2,3,4,6,7 and see if it manages to interpolate fac(5)
12:45:53 <int-e> ah, GG... anyone should've seen this coming...
12:52:36 <mroman> does anybody know how I can tell php's passthru to actually print stdout back to me?
12:52:41 <mroman> I mean... that's what passthru should be for
12:52:47 <mroman> but it's not doing it's job correctly as it seems
13:06:50 <FreeFull> Jafet: That coat of arms is mega-decorated
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18:37:05 <izabera> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DO0XyS8Ko
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18:43:11 <oerjan> gamemanj: wither confuseth thee?
18:44:19 * gamemanj falls asleep due to confusion!
18:45:16 <oerjan> i'm sorry, we cannot help you with this little information, please provide a minimal reproducible example twh
18:57:37 <oerjan> <int-e> ah, GG... anyone should've seen this coming... <-- which part in particular twh
18:57:51 <oerjan> @ask int-e <int-e> ah, GG... anyone should've seen this coming... <-- which part in particular twh
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18:59:07 <shachaf> oerjan: spot of the olist, governor?
18:59:15 <shachaf> do you know what the green eye thing is
19:00:15 <oerjan> i dunno but i noticed the effect healed roy
19:01:20 <oerjan> i'm wondering if that dwarf who lied originally and said the sword was starmetal was part of some conspiracy
19:01:56 <oerjan> to make sure the sword would _become_ starmetal
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19:03:26 <oerjan> if it was simply roy becoming "no holds barred" then you'd expect the same effect in the fight with xykon
19:04:43 <oerjan> perhaps it's just a matter of degree
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19:16:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Algebra]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44911&oldid=43998 * Oerjan * (+7) link, grm
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19:30:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DeathScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44912&oldid=43979 * Oerjan * (+148) wikify
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19:37:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ShortScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44913&oldid=44055 * Oerjan * (+3) wikify
19:38:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Oerjan * moved [[Ingredients-Oriented Paradigm]] to [[Ingredients-oriented paradigm]]: case
19:47:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Flower]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44915&oldid=44006 * Oerjan * (+8) citation needed
19:51:51 <oerjan> @tell ais523 the WUUI article contains an unmatched ), i'm not sure what it's supposed to say.
19:59:14 <int-e> oerjan: <-- which part in particular twh <-- well, all of it, the emphasis was on the use of "anyone".
20:01:25 <int-e> I know. But I refuse to apologize.
20:03:03 <int-e> Or should I say that anyone could've understood what I meant...
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20:13:38 <izabera> http://imgur.com/gallery/y8VCTGX what does elbowing mean?
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20:24:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SPBCL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44916&oldid=44019 * Oerjan * (+19) Some proofreading
20:24:30 <izabera> oh it looks like he hit someone with an elbow
20:24:46 <izabera> i thought it was a very offensive gesture
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20:29:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Graph rewriting]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44917&oldid=44027 * Oerjan * (+0) case
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20:36:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:ShortScript]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44918&oldid=44044 * Oerjan * (+58) unsigned
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20:41:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Malbrain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44919&oldid=44047 * Oerjan * (+3) fmt (argh, cannot find a way to put code blocks inside :::)
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22:07:46 <hppavilion[1]> Basically, I'd invent an infinite system of values entirely unlike numbers, create a standard encoding for them, and start defining things about them (operations, order, bitwise encodings, etc.)
22:10:58 <hppavilion[1]> I'd have weird things like ternary relations (unlike order theory, which studies binary relations) and my own sort of hyperoperations that work with any sort of esonumber
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22:54:04 <hppavilion[1]> I think I'll make my own geometry-oriented programming language
22:54:55 <hppavilion[1]> Though mine will allow you to create new points without constructing them; however, this is highly discouraged
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23:35:46 <zemhill> web.fdsafdsa: points -34.98, score 1.99, rank 47/47
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