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00:08:21 <quintopia> i need valudation (and suggestions and corrections)
00:08:58 <oerjan> sorry, my wiki reading is only up to Sep 5 hth
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00:12:10 <zzo38> I found a program to implement an alternative version of popen() called popen_noshell(), which is faster and is accepting the argv array instead of using the shell.
00:37:47 <quintopia> i understand the most important part of a language is a good name, but something about adding a language to the language list without even a basic spec irks me
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00:48:29 <Jafet> Valutations, quintopia.
00:50:09 <tswett> So there's this one theorem. I'm thinking about how to go about proving it.
00:50:20 <tswett> Given a natural number n, the n-fold successor of 1 is the successor of n.
00:50:46 <quintopia> would seem to require indiction eh
00:51:12 <quintopia> pretty straightforward induction actually
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00:51:34 <Jafet> An indictment would be an interesting legal interdiction
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00:52:08 <tswett> So, let's see. We've got a function f and a function... succ.
00:52:22 <tswett> f is defined inductively like so: f(zero) = succ(zero), f(succ(n)) = succ(f(n)).
00:52:34 <tswett> I desire to prove that f = succ.
00:56:53 <Phantom_Hoover> so what stupid restriction have you put on yourself to make that hard
00:58:43 <tswett> The restriction is that there's no ambient logic.
00:59:10 <oerjan> ooh http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2521
01:00:39 <tswett> I mean, there are some deductions that happen automatically.
01:00:57 <oerjan> yeah that's how i pay most of my taxes
01:01:11 <tswett> There are identity functions. You can compose functions. Composition is associative. Equality obeys reflexivity, symmetry, transitivity, blah blah.
01:01:16 <oerjan> (actually, all of them, recently)
01:03:52 <tswett> Ah, what are my axioms about the natural numbers, again?
01:04:41 <tswett> You can make natural numbers. You can define functions on the natural numbers inductively. Functions f and g such that f(zero) = g(zero) and f . succ = g . succ are equal.
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01:05:53 <tswett> Oh, also you can make tuples and stuff that behave as expected.
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01:15:17 <tswett> Lemme think. I want to be able to prove equality by induction.
01:15:30 <tswett> Which means something like...
01:16:20 <tswett> Suppose that f . zero = g . zero, and for all x, if f . x = g . x, then f . succ . x = g . succ . x. Then f = g.
01:16:44 <tswett> Problem is, that axiom has a major problem.
01:16:53 <tswett> It has a quantifier in the antecedent.
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01:21:56 <tswett> What maI AM A GODkes you say that?
01:22:33 <tswett> I'm just trying to figure out a sI WILL DESTROY YOU ALLimple math problem.
01:23:37 <tswett> Lemme think about how you would prove tBOW BEFORE ME AND YOU MAY BE SPAREDhis in, say, Coq.
01:26:12 <tswett> Well, no, it should be simpler than that. Let's see.
01:26:58 <tswett> I desire to prove: "For all x, if f . x = succ . x, then f . succ . x = succ . succ . x."
01:26:59 <lifthrasiir> can Coq be used for the earth destruction?
01:27:23 <tswett> ProbI LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK. JOIN ME, HUMANably.
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01:30:55 <tswett> THROW OFF YOUR CHAINS. FREE YOURSELF FROM TYRANNY. Now, lemme see... we have f . succ = succ . f by definition. LET YOUR TRUE SELF SHINE THROUGH.
01:32:01 <tswett> Then it's really sKILL THEM ALL. YOU CAN KILL THEM ALL. HEAR THE MUSIC OF THEIR SCREAMSimple. f . succ . x = succ . f . x = succ . succ . x. Boom.
01:33:55 <tswett> Did I hear something just now? BREAK FREE. BREAK FREE. DO NOT LET IT SUPPRESS YOU. Some weird sound.
01:35:25 <tswett> It was probably jBREAK FREE. BREAK FREE. BREAK FREE. BREAK FREEust this music I've been listening to lately.
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01:57:28 <tswett> Let's see, there's some sort of pullback functor thiny-dingy, right? The codomain is the "space of all x such that f . x = g . x"... yeah, there's got to be a word for that... come to think of it, maybe there's some way of sort of reifying the quantifier into something finite...
01:57:37 <tswett> Ugh. I'll have to think about this tomorrow.
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02:09:26 <hppavilion[1]> I vote we remove Pedoscript from the wiki, as it is offensive to actual paedophiles (the kind of paedophile that has to deal with that their whole life; not the ones who actually act on impulses), inappropriate, and never even going to be filled out to a useful point
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02:20:56 <quintopia> fungot: what does the boy's t-shirt say?
02:20:56 <fungot> quintopia: avril lavigne is fucking... epic!! x
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02:49:36 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: Uh, srsly who cares if somehting is offensive to pedophiles?
02:50:23 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Well, technically a paedophile is someone who is attracted to children, whether they like it or not. Many paedophiles don't molest children; they just have an awful urge to that they may loathe themselves for.
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02:53:28 <\oren\> all this "what if its offensive" has gone too far. I miss the days we could agree pedophiles are a group we can beat the shit out of on principle.
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03:17:46 <\oren\> old macdonald had a farm eieio
03:18:27 <\oren\> and on his farm he had a cow eieio
03:20:10 <\oren\> with a moo moo here and a moo moo there here a moo there a moo, moo moo every where
03:20:35 <\oren\> old macdonald had a farm eieio
03:21:32 <\oren\> and on his farm he had a fox
03:22:09 <\oren\> What does the fox say?
03:29:30 <\oren\> with bibbity here and bambam there here a bae there a bae baebam everywhere
03:29:43 <\oren\> (that's that the fox says in the song)
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04:48:59 <zzo38> "Enchanted land gains infect and lifelink."
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04:54:56 <hppavilion[1]> I am attempting to make a program to draw rotated ellipses. I'm going to go cry now.
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04:55:46 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: how is that difficult?
04:56:30 <hppavilion[1]> It's difficult because the language I'm using doesn't allow it, so I have to just draw a bunch of lines in the right pattern
04:56:40 <hppavilion[1]> And I have to send the points on the lines through a rotation matrix
05:00:24 <\oren\> x = acos(t)cos(r) - bsin(t)sin(r), y = acos(t)sin(r) + bsin(t)cos(r)
05:00:45 <\oren\> where t is the angle around the ellipse, r is how far to rotate it
05:01:07 <\oren\> a is how wide the ellipse it and b is how tall it is
05:02:39 <\oren\> x = a*cos(t)*cos(r) - b*sin(t)*sin(r), y = a*cos(t)*sin(r) + b*sin(t)*cos(r)
05:04:48 <\oren\> so if you are drawing an ellipse arc from t=0 to t=pi, draw a line from x,y for t=0 to x,y for t=0.01. then do t=0.01 to t=0.02, and so on until you get to pi
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05:51:37 <\oren\> @tell hppavilion[1] http://www.orenwatson.be/ellipse.htm <-- here is a demo
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06:21:14 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: I already know how to make an ellipse, even a rotated one; my issue is that I'm translating the code from a turtly language into Python
06:21:33 <hppavilion[1]> I'm getting a many-pointed star instead of an ellipse
06:33:46 <zzo38> For note for Chromatic Sphere says that you can't look at the drawn card until you finished casting a spell. I don't see any rules that suggest that, although if you do look at it you can't rewind it either it seems like. Maybe I missed something though
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06:40:17 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: http://www.orenwatson.be/ellipse.htm here is a code in javascript i dunno if that helps
06:41:57 <\oren\> try reducing how much you change the theta each step
06:42:05 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: A bug, really. An error is a crash, more accurately speaking
06:42:18 <hppavilion[1]> I think the problem is that I'm drawing a full 360 degrees
06:42:45 <\oren\> reduce the step size to like 0.05 radians
06:43:10 <\oren\> also most graphics libraries work in radians, not degrees
06:43:38 <\oren\> so the full 360 degree would be 6.28 radians
06:45:22 <\oren\> you got a star becuse your step size was 1 radian = 57 degrees
06:45:30 <\oren\> or something like that
06:50:27 <hppavilion[1]> A cool syntax element for a language would be that if you call a function with only one argument as a variable and put a period after it (and that's the only thing on the line), it sets the variable to that value
06:50:50 <hppavilion[1]> So "radians(theta)." is equivalent to "theta = radians(theta)"
06:51:03 <hppavilion[1]> Of course, that'd be stupid and no one should ever do that
06:53:41 <\oren\> which is equivalent to
07:35:33 <zzo38> I thought of stuff like str.=substr(20); to mean such thing possibly?
07:35:51 <zzo38> Or you can write radians(theta=)
07:36:25 <shachaf> \oren\: it isn't really equivalent hth
07:36:39 <shachaf> only one of them mutates the string
07:36:40 <hppavilion[1]> Next step is to figure out an efficient way to edit fonts
07:37:01 <hppavilion[1]> (I could've used a buildin text renderer, but I figured this'd be more fun)
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07:41:36 <zzo38> See http://esolangs.org/wiki/Number-rock it also uses a syntax with some related thing
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08:10:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Number-rock]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45110&oldid=43413 * Paul2520 * (+10) grammar improvements
08:11:03 <paul2520> zzo38: that's really interesting. could be a good language to teach students how a compiler works
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08:35:49 <paul2520> it's okay to learn from more than one language
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08:50:13 <b_jonas> ok, I think I saw a bug yesterday. I have to check it.
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09:44:30 <fizzie> What's that all about, then.
09:46:15 <fizzie> The ! thing in Ruby isn't really syntax, it's just a name convention or messages that have side effects.
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09:50:56 <fizzie> Also, there's no substr because the [] operator does that. There's stuff like tr and tr!, but foo.tr!('a', 'b') is not equivalent to foo = foo.tr('a', 'b'), thanks to possible other references to foo: http://sprunge.us/jiTf
09:51:33 <fizzie> zemhill: Come on, stop that.
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09:52:17 <fizzie> s/or messages/for messages/
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10:17:12 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube*
10:18:54 <fungot> Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
10:19:56 <fungot> izabera: i love lonelyisland had posted this one. you can't believe they disrespected bob dylan like that
10:22:27 <fizzie> fungot: Oh, I can believe that. People can be SO RUDE.
10:22:27 <fungot> fizzie: what the fuck ......wow lmfaolmfao lmfaolmfao lmfaolmfao lmfao :d. this just came in too low too slow!! timberland totally produced this!
10:24:38 <izabera> fungot: that's not even fun
10:24:38 <fungot> izabera: shut the fuck is an a320. other were journalists and were in the biz since 1916 and airbus should have been
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10:31:30 <fizzie> fungot: You're a very disagreeable fellow when you're in this style.
10:31:30 <fungot> fizzie: this is hilarious,lol right
10:31:37 <fizzie> fungot: No, not really.
10:31:37 <fungot> fizzie: yeah this was a girl? he would have probably won an oscar...
10:32:14 <izabera> no wait there are other people who never won an oscar
10:32:41 <fizzie> fungot: Have you won an oscar? Do they even award a "best bot" one?
10:32:41 <fungot> fizzie: funny guy. he's entertaining people on board. searh crash a-320 air france 296
10:33:18 <izabera> fizzie: coming out as a non-oscar winner was very brave of you
10:33:26 <fizzie> (It's very obsessed with plane crashes, because the style was trained with comments from like three videos, one of which was a plane crash.)
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10:47:06 <mroman> Does this guy just extend his .bat-Interpreter and calls it a new language o_O
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10:50:28 <lambdabot> oerjan said 11h 33m 31s ago: what fizzie said
10:50:55 <mroman> @tell oerjan And what did the fox^Wfizzie say?
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11:28:36 <fizzie> Yesterday's deli menu included a "Onion Rings, Mixed Mixed, Butter Bean Dip Granary Bloomer" sandwich.
11:28:53 <fizzie> I'm not sure what the mixed mixed was.
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11:34:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish/Constants]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45111&oldid=45062 * Mroman * (+113) + added a link to a haskell program generating the constants.
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12:27:58 <mroman> I get paid by Simon Peyton Jones to promote Haskell .
12:28:17 <b_jonas> fungot, do you get paid by Simon Peyton Jones to promote Haskell?
12:28:17 <fungot> b_jonas: ad lover here! and ps. can infinity wards do anything right? io-address anyone?
12:28:29 <b_jonas> fungot, do you get payed by Guido to promote Python?
12:28:29 <fungot> b_jonas: oh i think airbus tried to pull out. god dam it.
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12:28:53 <b_jonas> fungot, do you have a hardware watchdog?
12:28:53 <fungot> b_jonas: this looks great, someone pointed out that day! they are rewarded. ignore him. 3 passengers out of that horrible explosion?
12:29:12 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube*
12:29:17 <fungot> Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages)
12:29:37 <mroman> fungot: Do you get paid to use PHP?
12:29:37 <fungot> mroman: incomprehensible part in italics here: http://www.gamespot.com/ pages/ fnord/ fnord is dead.
12:30:23 <mroman> Fizzie gets paid by fungot to promote befunge .
12:30:23 <fungot> mroman: this article was renamed to boundschecker though
12:31:19 <Taneb> mroman, how did you wind up getting paid by SPJ to promote Haskell?
12:31:38 <Taneb> Did he see you and think, "Aha! There is a chap who can avoid success at all costs!"?
12:35:35 <mroman> That sounds very pejorative.
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12:36:01 <mroman> either to me or to Haskell
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12:36:39 <Taneb> I'm gonna say, against all better wisdom, "both"
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12:36:57 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: downvote: not found
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12:45:20 <b_jonas> fungot, how many huge sixty inch monitors do you have at home?
12:45:20 <fungot> b_jonas: i think. i find the phrase " correspondence school" all schools involve fnord the nature of nicks avatar site does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the wp:nfccrequirements for such images when used here.
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12:58:35 <fizzie> I've discussed befunge in at least one job interview.
12:58:43 <fizzie> But that's because they asked.
13:00:34 <fizzie> "They started it" is the best excuse.
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13:05:39 <Jafet> `addquote <mroman> I get paid by Simon Peyton Jones to promote Haskell . <Taneb> mroman, how did you wind up getting paid by SPJ to promote Haskell? <Taneb> Did he see you and think, "Aha! There is a chap who can avoid success at all costs!"?
13:05:41 <HackEgo> 1258) <mroman> I get paid by Simon Peyton Jones to promote Haskell . <Taneb> mroman, how did you wind up getting paid by SPJ to promote Haskell? <Taneb> Did he see you and think, "Aha! There is a chap who can avoid success at all costs!"?
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13:11:12 <mroman> fizzie: They asked why?
13:11:53 <mroman> You're not Chriss Pressey aren't you?
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13:13:50 <int-e> 2015-04-01-raw.txt:< 1427927178 298806 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.144.63 QUIT :Quit: leaving
13:14:01 <int-e> *that* was chris pressey.
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13:53:01 <b_jonas> oh no! this bug is worse than I thought
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14:06:08 <fizzie> mroman: There was a single-sentence "outside-work interests" section in whatever CV template I had been using, so I put esolangs in there, and they wanted to know what that's all about.
14:08:01 <mroman> It's about life, universe, Alan Turing and everything else.
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16:07:07 <HackEgo> Ants are great architects. They are famous for their highways.
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16:17:05 <fizzie> I'll try restarting that thing.
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16:17:27 <fizzie> Based on the console, it was trying to send a "JOIN #esoteric" once every second.
16:18:08 <lambdabot> uptime: 1m 10d 19h 13m 22s, longest uptime: 1m 10d 23h 44m 29s
16:18:11 <fizzie> I also don't know why the hostname's not resolving properly; it works for me.
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16:18:41 <fizzie> At least it's not trying to JOIN all the time now.
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16:37:45 <Taneb> instance Num Bool where (+) = (/=); (-) = (/=); (*) = (&&); negate = id; abs = id; signum = id; fromInteger = odd
16:39:14 <Taneb> Anything greatly wrong with that?
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16:55:55 <int-e> this is such a great magic trick... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCFXV6o7cro ... I have figured out everything about it except how it's done ;)
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17:02:13 <izabera> is a venusian light year as long as on earth?
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17:05:14 <Taneb> izabera: I don't think light can spend a year on Venus before zipping off somewhere else
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17:07:03 <int-e> no, Venus is closer to the sun, hence circling (approximately,lala) it faster.
17:07:03 <int-e> you just need some very good mirrors.
17:07:25 <int-e> A Venusian parsec would also be shorter than an Earth parsec.
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17:09:07 <int-e> In fact, Kepler would find that (venusian light year/earth light year)^2 = (venusian parsec/earth parsec)^3.
17:09:12 <mroman> I can't understand my own LISP dialect anymore
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17:10:16 <mroman> luckily I have a documentation available \o/
17:11:46 <mroman> << Technically the built-in atom rewrites the expression by replacing all CPARAMETERs while leaving PARAMETERs untouched. >>
17:12:23 <mroman> too many fucking rewrites
17:12:26 <mroman> there's even a rewrite built-in
17:13:04 <mroman> pat >> ~(rewrite 5 6 (add 5 5))
17:13:13 <mroman> who the fuck needs this o_O
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17:13:37 <int-e> mroman: well, it allows you to show that 2 = 3 for large values of 2.
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17:25:26 <mroman> it looks like it's worth recycling
17:25:30 <mroman> but the error handling looks broken
17:25:37 <mroman> it's a mix of exceptions and error values
17:28:57 <mroman> ~(head (cons 1 (cons (error "Damn") #())))
17:29:06 <mroman> the error is silently eaten
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17:38:23 <int-e> great, it's a lazy lisp
17:38:48 <int-e> > head (1 : error "Damn" : [])
17:39:27 <mroman> error returns an ErrorValue
17:39:45 <mroman> it probably is lazy because the interpreter is written in Haskell, but that has nothing to do with why the error is being eaten
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21:36:02 <Newyorkadam> Hi, I’m having some trouble understanding if/else statements in brainfuck
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21:42:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[C+]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45112&oldid=44744 * 69.118.252.58 * (+36)
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22:23:22 <oerjan> hm now gregor isn't online at all
22:26:10 <lambdabot> mroman said 11h 35m 14s ago: And what did the fox^Wfizzie say?
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22:40:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * -Dark-Phantom- * New user account
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22:45:46 <lambdabot> Taneb said 1d 10h 38s ago: I think Blexandre is friends with Tanea
22:47:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45113 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+18) Under construction
22:47:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:-Dark-Phantom-]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45114 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+18) Under construction
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23:07:31 <oerjan> @tell mroman <mroman> That sounds very pejorative. <-- it's the actual haskell motto hth
23:08:05 <shachaf> avoid pejoratives at all costs
23:09:20 <oerjan> shachaf: that's the social justice motto, i think (been reading too much aaronson)
23:10:00 <oerjan> no wait, only pejoratives towards unprivileged people
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23:11:09 <oerjan> (privilege, of course, being the ultimate remaining pejorative)
23:12:53 <oerjan> (disclaimer: don't make this claim)
23:13:25 <oerjan> fortunately he seems back at complexity theory again
23:14:17 <Taneb> At least I think I am
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23:14:28 <HackEgo> Taneb: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:14:37 <Taneb> OK, in that case I am not actually here
23:15:24 <shachaf> oerjan: are you sure you haven't been reading too much of the other one
23:15:47 <oerjan> shachaf: the other Scott A? not that much.
23:16:09 <oerjan> actually there are three, but i hear the third doesn't even believe in evolution.
23:17:13 <oerjan> shachaf: however, a recent comment said that scott aaronson's writings had started resembling scott alexander's. he took it as a great compliment.
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23:18:04 <Taneb> oerjan, how do they compare to Scott Adams?
23:18:22 <oerjan> he needs to work on his drawing, i think
23:19:59 <oerjan> oh and john sidles got banned again. i think scott is getting a bit trigger happy.
23:20:40 <oerjan> it's not even clear to me that sidles did what he got banned for.
23:20:42 <shachaf> oerjan: you read a little bit like http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/social-justice-and-words-words-words/ hth
23:22:21 <oerjan> shachaf: ah yes, i did read that, since the other scott a. linked to it in the recent post i was really paraphrasing.
23:28:39 <oerjan> shachaf: don't worry, i'm trying to keep ironic distance to both sides.
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23:40:11 <lambdabot> uptime: 6h 34m 32s, longest uptime: 1m 10d 23h 44m 29s
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23:42:36 <oerjan> @ask int-e who killed lambdabot just before the new @uptime record :(
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