00:04:02 That should be easily enough to do: In your font define one character to have a negative width and an empty glyph, and then define ligatures which can be use to have its own glyph for a(combine)^ if it has one. 00:05:52 No need to tamper with Unicode at all. My own idea about an advanced font metric format, you would be able to do these things, as well as implement the rules of Unicode too, and more. 00:09:02 I would have the metric file also be used to convert metrics into glyphs; the glyphs would be a separate format and can be independent of the metric format. Hyphenation is also separate, but may interact with metrics. 00:11:53 [wiki] [[DStack]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45371&oldid=45295 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+13) /* Instructions */ 00:23:13 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 00:28:07 I think I'll develop a pseudo programming language made to help people learn programmatical thinking in an esoteric way 00:28:31 OK 00:28:54 Either that or an RPG game engine. Or maybe they'll be merged. 00:32:16 I think I'll merge them 00:33:00 Merge them, how? 00:33:50 he'll develop an RPG game engine with a pseudo programming language made to help people learn programmatical thinking in an esoteric way, hth 00:42:52 zzo38: yes, but such a character would be a good substitute for many existing unicode characters. My suggestion was that it should've been designed that way from the start IMO 00:43:00 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:43:59 And using negative width and an empty glyph would restrict it to only one font, and I don't think that would work at all with variable-width fonts? 00:44:05 At least, I don't see how 00:44:09 otherwise, a good idea 00:46:42 You can add kerns to make it work with variable-width fonts. While it is restricted to having the accent in the same font as the letter, you can still use it with multiple fonts otherwise. 00:47:13 (And the "(combine)" character also has to exist in that font too) 00:48:50 -!- jaboja has joined. 00:51:00 FireFly: I don’t think a character with such a squishy semantic would fly. 00:51:30 Also, you’d need to combine with ˆ, not ^, to get ̂. 00:51:47 sure, works for me 00:52:21 We have combining characters already; I don't see how a dedicated "combine" character is worse than separate dedicated "combining foo" characters that we currently have 00:53:04 The one I proposed seems more flexible to me since in essence you get a combining version of every character for free 00:53:26 zzo38: good point about kerning. That would work 00:53:49 “for free”, hahahahaha! 00:54:20 Well. Of course, if you want it to look good the font has to manually support it as a ligature and design a glyph for it 00:54:23 So that's not "for free" 00:55:08 But I mean in the sense that you don't have to request Unicode to allocate a combining character and then wait for a new Unicode standard 00:55:15 In kind of format I was describing you could do with dedicated combining characters too, but in a fixpitch font you may certainly include a backspace character as well 00:55:45 Of course you do! You still have to wait for the new standard which says that this combination is now defined as thus … 00:56:12 In my scheme you won't have to tamper with Unicode at all; you are not even required to use Unicode, although you can if you wish to, or even define an extension of Unicode in order to make it compatible with Unicode texts. 00:56:20 Else your stuff just says “you can’t combine these two”. 00:57:03 However, if you are using Unicode then you still need to define all of the relevant Unicode rules in the font metric file, that are applicable to your font (or use an include file, possibly) 00:57:16 That's why I suggested a fallback would be to just literally overstrike one glyph over the other (which would probably often not look good), and use something like ligatures for the ones supported 00:57:33 Or, alternatively, you get fonts deciding differently what some combination should mean, which counters the whole point of standardization. 00:58:05 I don't see how "a (combine) circumflex" could be interpreted as anything other than what's currently known as "a circumflex" 00:58:40 Melvar: don't we have the same issue today with things like "(random CJK glyph) (combining circumflex above)" ? 00:58:57 or, worse, (emoji) (combining circumflex above) 00:59:10 Melvar: If you wish the fonts to be comatible then you will define the font according to some standard that is matching other font using, but some font there is no point to do such thing so you would just define your own instead. 00:59:38 As far as I know, combining characters aren't restricted specially? and I can't imagine (all printables) × (all combining codepoints) are specified separately (× being cartesian product) 00:59:49 But we don’t have “right arrow (combine) up arrow” which could mean two things off the top of my head, and probably more. 01:00:53 Hmm, fair point 01:00:55 It depends much on what interoperability is required. 01:01:03 Compare these two: ↲ ↵ 01:01:25 is that "arrow down left" and "symbol for carriage return" or something? 01:01:57 DOWNWARDS ARROW WITH TIP LEFTWARDS and DOWNWARDS ARROW WITH CORNER LEFTWARDS, in fact. 01:02:20 Hm 01:02:37 If needed, just to write the document, and the font can say it follows that document. Unicode is one such kind of document; it may not define all such thing but may define many things, and some fonts may be defined according to multiple document, or according to none at all if they require unique symbols or whatever reason you might not need any. 01:02:47 They both look like triangles to me (the arrowhead I mean) 01:03:01 There’s additionally RETURN SYMBOL: ⏎ 01:03:13 The difference is in the proportion of the two sections. 01:03:23 Ah 01:03:39 I guess one could have left arrow, short left arrow 01:03:46 or long left arrow 01:04:13 Indeed, the latter of the two “may indicate a carriage return or new line”. 01:07:24 Oh, here’s ⤶ ARROW POINTING DOWNWARDS THEN CURVING LEFTWARDS which unlike those, curves instead of having a corner. 01:07:52 I think I'll merge them 01:07:56 Dammit, cat 01:08:25 He stepped on the right of my keyboard, hitting "up" then "enter" 01:11:19 -!- idris-bot has joined. 01:14:49 -!- heroux has joined. 01:18:44 RETURN SYMBOL seems to be hollow 01:27:13 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:32:40 @tell mroman except for syntax is what the lexer uses, grammar is what the parser uses <-- that sounds to me like almost the exact opposite of the natural language meaning 01:32:40 Consider it noted. 01:33:18 @tell mroman because there, syntax is how you place words, but _not_ how words are composed. 01:33:18 Consider it noted. 01:33:37 the lexer took 40 cakes 01:33:42 `? gregor 01:33:43 Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible. 01:36:46 damn, why do i have to @tell before finishing reading the conversation... 01:43:08 <\oren\> Jesus christ, paris is in martial law 01:43:22 -!- heroux has joined. 01:43:33 <\oren\> My mom has been calling people she knows there 01:43:44 wat 01:44:19 <\oren\> they've declared a curfew and soldiers are searching the streets 01:44:19 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 01:47:06 I have heard about stuff in Paris on the radio just few minutes ago 01:47:19 <\oren\> I just got home 01:47:48 <\oren\> My mom has just confirmed at least that everyone she knows in paris is safe 01:48:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:49:37 \oren\, that's good 01:53:47 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:01:23 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:08:34 -!- boily has joined. 02:11:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:14:36 @metar CYQB 02:14:36 CYQB 140200Z 24011KT 15SM FEW015 OVC063 04/02 A2940 RMK SC1SC7 SLP959 02:14:41 @metar ENVA 02:14:41 ENVA 140150Z 11005KT CAVOK M00/M03 Q0993 RMK WIND 670FT 14008KT 02:14:47 oerjan: M00! 02:16:26 <\oren\> HIBOILY 02:17:27 \HELLOREN\ 02:18:13 looks about right 02:18:39 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:19:06 OKAY 02:19:28 <\oren\> @metar CYYZ 02:19:28 CYYZ 140200Z 30016G24KT 15SM SCT034 OVC059 04/M01 A2980 RMK SC4SC4 VIA CYOW SLP094 02:19:41 -!- heroux has joined. 02:20:10 VIA CYOW? 02:24:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:25:10 fungot. can't find anything about "VIA". 02:25:11 boily: from two different systems. 02:25:21 fungot: it is so. Canadian METARs are weird. 02:25:22 boily: not just for angsty 14-year-olds anymore 02:25:47 fungot: I haven't been 14 since twelve years ago. 02:25:47 boily: out of curiosity, why would that matter?) it didn' 02:26:03 fungot: becose twelve years is a non-homeopathic span of time hth 02:26:04 boily: haven't had anybody tell me where your source is at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/ viewcvs.py/ fnord but 404 on http://mitpress.mit.edu/ sicp/ this one?: check that first item of l1 is now size, and fills it with zeros?.... 02:26:16 fungot: CVS? on SF? uuuuuurgh! 02:26:48 https://www.fltplan.com/abbreviations.htm seem to be a good source, with substantially more abbreviations than what's available on wikipédia, but nothing about VIA. 02:26:54 * boily grmbls and mumbles and rants 02:27:32 boily: Hah. 02:28:05 oh wait! it's there! "BY WAY OF". the bastards. 02:28:17 pikhelloq. hah to you too :P 02:28:54 so what is via Ottawa. there are federal clouds invading Toronto? 02:29:43 \oren\: do you think Justing owns a weather machine and is controlling Ontarian climate? 02:29:54 s/Junsting/Justin/ 02:42:02 [wiki] [[ResPlicate]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45372&oldid=45353 * Quintopia * (+0) /* Truth-machine */ The previous edit to this was a mistake. 02:43:20 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DISPLACER CHICKEN). 02:51:29 -!- andrew has joined. 03:09:32 this is a 10 years step back in international negotiations 03:09:36 every fucking time 03:09:46 now with the migrant crisis 03:10:01 great timing... 03:11:32 police reported all the attackers have been killed 03:13:57 I agree, re. step back in international negotiations 03:14:00 It's sad 03:14:22 I wonder if the consequences of this will be akin to those for 9/11 in some sense 03:15:26 <\oren\> Marine le pen might become the leader of france in the next election 03:17:27 <\oren\> France has an aircraft carrier and their own fighter jets. it's certainly not unthinkable that they could cooperate with putin to wipe out Daesh/ISIS/ISIL/WTFBBQ 03:18:59 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:28:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:29:14 \oren\: NATO article 5 could be invoked 03:29:20 Muslims should need to work to defeat them too 03:30:11 Of course everyone does but Muslims especially should go against ISIS/ISIL/Daesh 03:36:50 is there any estimate of the number of people in those groups? 03:38:57 * izabera found the answer on google and it's 200k 03:40:36 zzo38: I though muslims already were 03:42:44 Probably they are, yes. But what I am saying is everyone (whether Christian, atheist, etc) can go against them, but primarily it seem it would be job of Muslims. This way might result in being very defeated instead of just being defeated, or maybe I am unclear or confuse or something else 03:47:28 what's the difference between defeated and very defeated? 03:51:40 if you can't spin your defeat into martyrdom then you are very defeated. 03:52:04 izabera: huh, I would guess a lot more considering how big a territory the control 03:53:55 izabera: I am not completely sure what it is nor do I know how to explain even if I do know, that is why I say I am a bit confused. But you other people on here are also making some points about it too; it isn't everything but they are some points too anyways. 03:57:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:57:46 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpNvGNRlFaE 03:58:01 [wiki] [[Aubergine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45373&oldid=45354 * Quintopia * (+29) /* Examples */ 03:59:21 why am i watching a video like that 04:01:25 <\oren\> It's nice isn't it? Celtic-style folk music 04:01:43 yeah they're much better than i thought at first 04:02:48 Why does this subreddit exist https://www.reddit.com/r/truetictactoe 04:02:54 I guess it's a parody of game subreddits? 04:03:24 \oren\: nice 04:04:32 doesn't even look like a parody 04:04:51 izabera, X was nerfed? 04:05:31 https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueTicTacToe/comments/3gdw6x/im_new_here_can_someone_explain_me_all_the_rules/ 04:05:38 "IMO you really should watch about 50-60 hours of pro streams on twitch and read every guide on every forum, then get to where you can beat 2 insane/cheater AI at once before you even consider a real game. You're just going to frustrate everyone else around you." 04:06:00 Their headwear reminds me of moonbowmusicmovie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG7yuQ9MQ2s 04:06:34 Some genuinely interesting things though 04:07:01 Is there the SQL RPG engine? 04:07:10 Pure CSS tic-tac-toe 04:07:21 (they do a lot of acoustic arranges of videogame music too) 04:07:30 To make RPG computer game with SQL, using the game engine program to support such thing 04:07:31 (Well, actually different source that gets compiled into CSS I think) 04:08:17 \oren\: you might enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIV70shV8Sw 04:13:52 OK, now my DVI->PBM program is working!!! 04:14:35 What is the goal of that? 04:15:49 Do you mean goal of such program? 04:16:24 Yes 04:16:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:17:47 It is to convert DVI into PBM. 04:18:07 One use of such a thing would be to print on printers that use host-based printing. 04:18:11 What can we do with temporal logic? 04:18:16 ... 04:18:31 How do type systems correspond to logic systems? Anyone have a paper on that? 04:18:56 Wadler has a talk on.. er, not on that, but one slide has a table about that 04:18:56 hppavilion[1]: I wanted to know that too. 04:19:18 zzo38: Whihc part? The first or the second? 04:20:00 Hmm, actually the part on temporal logic might've been something he mentioned was still an open problem 04:20:40 FireFly: I expressed what I was saying properly, correct? Like, I've heard that most languages are based on classical logic 04:20:46 hppavilion[2]: Both 04:20:48 And I'm curious how that works 04:21:05 zzo38: Ah. Temporal type system? I've heard that that's reactive programming 04:21:11 (Or maybe functional/reactive) 04:21:25 But can it be explained how that works? 04:21:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOiZatlZtGU#t=40m30s has a table mentioning some different (logic, type system) pairs 04:21:41 I have heard that too, but it does not explain how that is. 04:22:02 Are there any types of logic cooler than temporal logic? 04:22:18 linear logic is p. weird 04:22:32 At least a lot more weird than its name would suggest 04:22:57 Featuring concepts such as "of course" and "why not", I would say it might classify as an esologic 04:23:00 hppavilion[1]: most languages are based on _intuitionistic_ logic. i'm pretty sure i mentioned that last this was discussed. 04:23:23 for a certain value of "based" 04:23:31 oerjan: Oh right. 04:23:42 With classical logic, can make continuations too 04:24:08 \oren\ the floating cloud video is interesting, as it continued it sounded more and more strange because it didn't have the structure I expected 04:25:26 Can logics be combined? 04:25:45 In what way? 04:25:56 zzo38: Like, could Linear Temporal logic be a thing? 04:26:53 I don't know 04:27:43 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_temporal_logic 04:27:45 Yep 04:28:18 I've also heard of Quantum Logic 04:28:30 Is probabalistic logic a thing? 04:30:09 Yep. 04:30:40 Esolang idea: Type system based on Linear-Temporal-Quantum-Probabalistic Logic. 04:32:13 Combinatory, if I'm feeling like it. 04:36:55 Ok, that might be a bit much 04:40:12 Are there any useful constructions that use Graph Theory as a "Foundations of Mathematics"? 04:40:22 For example, arithmetic defined in terms of graphs? 04:44:06 You could probably define integers based on the length of lists (c.f. cardinality of sets), and lists without duplicates are a special case of graphs (straight-line graphs) 04:44:38 so if nothing else you could probably do it like that, but that's kinda boring 04:48:28 I want to try to make a language vaguely inspired by formal logic. Probably won't turn out very well, but I'm at least going to try. 04:49:45 I'm going to mix various types of logic into a strange, homogenous, disgusting mesh. 04:49:55 Which I guess is kind of in the spirit of this channel 04:58:08 Temporal Logic Programming? 05:01:48 hppavilion[1]: quantum logic is weird, i once looked at it from this perspective, but it has this strange orthomodular rule that simply doesn't fit in a sensible way. 05:02:19 and is otherwise _very_ limited. 05:02:43 [wiki] [[Category:Quantum computing]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45374 * Hppavilion1 * (+133) Created page because why the fuck did this not exist already 05:02:47 because any two things tend to be incompatible. 05:03:20 hppavilion[1]: um i should have said this long ago, but you _do_ know we have a rule against creating categories without discussion, right? 05:03:50 unless it was repealed in some part of my wiki backlog 05:04:11 oerjan: I did not think this needed discussion. We have >2 languages that are quantum, and quantum computing is, like, Esolangs taken seriously. But sorry. 05:04:32 Why do the fonts look better in my program than in xdvi? Is xdvi using PostScript fonts instead of bitmap fonts, or something else like that, or what else? 05:04:57 zzo38: Do you think we needed a category for quantum languages? 05:06:57 hppavilion[1]: I believe it would be a good idea yes. However, the discussion for that is supposed to go on the wiki, I think. 05:07:11 zzo38: Fair enough. 05:07:24 hppavilion[1]: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Categorization to be precise 05:07:34 Right, right 05:08:34 Hm... 05:08:39 Quantum Combinatory Logic? 05:08:49 -!- doesthiswork1 has joined. 05:09:19 oh dear 05:09:25 -!- heroux_ has joined. 05:09:52 i'm not sure that works. the limits of quantum logic are to do with combining things... 05:10:06 -!- Warrigal has joined. 05:10:16 oerjan: I'll MAKE it work >:) 05:10:32 -!- augur_ has joined. 05:10:49 related to the heisenberg uncertainty in real physics ... you cannot measure all pairs of observables precisely 05:10:50 -!- int-e_ has joined. 05:10:59 hint-e_ 05:12:08 Well... how does normal probabalistic combinatory logic work? 05:12:13 int-ello_ 05:12:23 no idea :P 05:12:30 (The "-" is the "h" censored) 05:13:37 -!- SirCmpwn_ has joined. 05:13:52 oerjan: Shall I go invent that? Probabilistic turing machines are easier to understand than quantum turing machines, and once I get my head fully wrapped around CL being TC I'll know what I'm doing 05:14:22 -!- doesthiswork has quit (*.net *.split). 05:14:22 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 05:14:23 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 05:14:24 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 05:14:26 -!- int-e has quit (*.net *.split). 05:14:26 -!- kline has quit (*.net *.split). 05:14:27 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 05:14:27 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 05:15:20 btw the types corresponding to quantum logic almost certainly wouldn't be the same as what a quantum computer can compute 05:15:25 (is my hunch) 05:17:45 -!- SirCmpwn_ has changed nick to SirCmpwn. 05:18:36 -!- kline has joined. 05:19:51 Hm... 05:19:58 Probably there's some sort of R combinator 05:20:09 Perhaps Rxy=xy|yx? 05:21:39 That seems like it ought to be Probabilistic enough xD 05:22:01 Sorry, I'm just not great with proofs and stuff yet xD 05:25:27 I did make up a esolang based on formal sequent calculus logic 05:27:07 And want to learn how to make the similar one with the sequent calculus of linear logic too 05:29:02 -!- variable has joined. 05:31:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:33:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 05:39:46 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 05:42:10 It look like my dvipbm program is not quite perfect yet; there are still a few more things to fix, such as I get spurious rules on a page somehow 05:44:05 Maybe a ? combinator would be better, where ?xy=Ix|Iy 05:44:58 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:44:59 -!- llue has joined. 05:44:59 -!- llue has quit (Changing host). 05:44:59 -!- llue has joined. 05:45:03 The probabilities are, of course, 50/50 05:45:52 I originally thought of a C (or something) combinator where C=S|K|I, but then I realized that was utterly idiotic of me 05:48:04 I think ? is probably better than R. R is just stupid, AND can be defined as Rxy = S (S (K (S (K S) K)) S) (K K) I xy, or something along those lines. 05:49:15 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 05:49:20 -!- haavardp has joined. 05:49:31 -!- deltab_ has joined. 05:50:41 -!- PinealGl1ndOptic has joined. 05:51:04 -!- deltab has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:51:05 -!- Hoolootoo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:51:06 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:51:07 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:51:08 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:51:10 -!- ocharles__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:51:10 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:51:10 -!- haavard has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:51:12 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:51:12 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:51:27 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:51:37 -!- nortti has joined. 05:51:37 -!- Hoolootwo has joined. 05:51:46 -!- Taneb has joined. 05:51:57 -!- fizzie has joined. 05:52:22 -!- ski has joined. 05:52:54 -!- Lymia has joined. 05:53:23 -!- haavardp has changed nick to haavard. 05:55:47 Wait, I forgot to include ? in that definition 05:56:18 Wait, it's not as easy now that I've remembered that 05:56:30 -!- ocharles__ has joined. 05:57:04 -!- lambdabot has joined. 05:57:46 A little help, anyone? 05:58:34 -!- heroux has joined. 05:58:52 [wiki] [[Probabilistic combinatory logic]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45375 * Hppavilion1 * (+793) Created Page 06:03:05 [wiki] [[Probabilistic combinatory logic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45376&oldid=45375 * Hppavilion1 * (+197) Fixed section because I'm bad at math 06:12:31 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:17:00 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 06:19:51 -!- haavard has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:20:04 * hppavilion[1] boredly hits the esogong 06:20:56 <\oren\> *GONG* 06:20:58 -!- haavard has joined. 06:21:30 -!- deltab_ has changed nick to deltab. 06:22:04 What is a esogong? 06:22:28 zzo38: It's like the Esobell, but it's a gong 06:23:32 * lifthrasiir lights the esobomb 06:24:03 lifthrasiir: That is perhaps in bad taste, depending on exactly what went down in paris 06:24:17 I'm not sure exactly what happened though, so that might be OK 06:24:19 xD 06:25:00 hppavilion[1]: oops, didn't intend that at all, but probably inappropriate. 06:25:21 lifthrasiir: Probably. Was the stuff in paris bombings or shootings or other? 06:25:40 (was just thinking about an appropriate combination of s the eso) 06:25:50 hmm... 06:25:52 Probably bombings, given that they're terrorists. Bombs are the most effective terrorist weapon oftentimes. They cause a lot of, y'know, terror. 06:25:54 * lifthrasiir verbs the esonoun 06:26:31 I think that #esoteric is close to going to war with ISIS. I can imagine the Michael Bay movie about us now... 06:26:39 xD 06:26:39 hppavilion[1]: seems that there were shootings *and* explosions. 06:26:52 lifthrasiir: Ah. Bombs with guns attached to them? 06:26:59 Or separate? 06:27:32 separate I think, reading WP 06:28:29 hppavilion[1]: three shootings (one involving hostage scenario) and one explosion (suicide bombing). 06:29:27 [wiki] [[Probabilistic combinatory logic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45377&oldid=45376 * Hppavilion1 * (+147) Changed ? to τ because τυχαίος 06:29:48 lifthrasiir: WP already? That's fast. 06:29:55 Wait, WP is the Washington Post, isn't it? 06:30:02 I read it as "Wikipedia" xD 06:30:10 about 9 hours passed since then, so not really surprising 06:30:14 yeah, Wikipedia :) 06:30:17 Ah 06:30:26 Wikipedia are usually pretty quick with getting information going for current events 06:30:34 9 hours I suppose is long enough 06:30:39 in the abbreviated form 06:30:47 useful for quick skimming 06:30:54 Unfortunatey I usually forget it when thinking of good news sources 06:30:56 Yeah 06:31:36 Is anyone here good with CL? 06:31:43 Already 54 citations for the article 06:34:12 -!- function has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 06:35:08 FireFly: Now THAT'S impressive 06:35:44 I can't believe I didn't think of this yet: "lifthrasiir is going to esohell." Purely comically, of course. 06:36:11 (Also, Esohell is really the same as Esonirvana, because why not? (that's a formal logic term)) 06:38:24 lifthrasiir: That is perhaps in bad taste, depending on exactly what went down in paris <-- it doesn't help that my intuitive reaction to the comment was to make an inspector clouseau joke 06:41:11 * oerjan is getting a bit annoyed at github inserting history cruft commits that are essentially nops but still end up in pull requests 06:41:32 Such as? 06:42:38 FireFly: when i update my repository to edwardk's latest changes it gives a commit in my repository, which is still listed when i send a pull request _back_ (and this prevented me from making it a single-commit one so i had to cut and paste the description between windows) 06:43:03 Ah.. yes, that's a bit annoying 06:43:05 also, it was ridiculously complicated to separate out that one commit because i already had a pull request ourstanding 06:43:35 I think you can do something to work around that by stashing, pulling and rebasing, but my git-fu isn't very strong 06:44:02 well, i'm seriously trying to avoid the cli as much as possible, but i had to use cherry-pick 06:44:06 to avoid pointless merge commits I mean 06:44:27 Ah, I've only used command-line git 06:44:50 the things i'm doing _shouldn't_ be hard enough to require the cli... 06:47:17 hm this was one of the things darcs was supposed to be good at, no? treating commits individually? 06:47:23 too bad it lost. 06:47:37 -!- doesthiswork1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:00:45 -!- mtve- has joined. 07:01:02 -!- izabera_ has joined. 07:03:52 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:03:52 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:03:54 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:03:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:05:31 -!- myndzi has joined. 07:06:20 -!- heroux has joined. 07:09:23 So is anyone here good with combinators? 07:14:16 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:40:52 -!- heroux has joined. 07:47:23 <\oren\> shit. I was 7 when the war started and it's still not over. 07:50:06 \oren\: Which one? 07:50:19 <\oren\> the general "war on terror" 07:50:22 Also, he\\oren\. 07:50:24 Ah. That one. 07:50:46 I don't think I'd been born when it started; if I had, I wasn't sentient at the time 07:52:28 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:55:38 <\oren\> hmm, you can get in the army in some countries at 16. Therefore someone might be fighting the terrorists who was 2 when the war began 07:56:48 <\oren\> Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods 07:59:39 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:00:26 \oren\: Also, the occasional rabbit 08:06:49 \oren\: There are people fighting /with/ the terrorists who were 2 when the war began. Or younger. Or not even born yet. 08:13:20 The major general war on terror 08:19:17 -!- heroux has joined. 08:28:25 <\oren\> Jafet: just call it "the war", i mean it's the only war my country is actively involved in 08:30:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:30:55 hppavilion[1]: like this one, you mean? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvs5pqf-DMA 08:32:43 <\oren\> In the grim dark future, even the rabbits are blood-soaked engines of war. 08:50:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: fnørd). 09:00:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:28:42 <\oren\> updated my font 09:28:44 <\oren\> 双匁叔叙味呼哀哲在坑坊埋垣寺少帰広店弱 09:28:45 <\oren\> 用強朝楽歌毎毛活海父番科答算 10:14:03 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 10:19:09 -!- paul2520_ has joined. 10:19:52 -!- trnv2 has joined. 10:19:58 -!- digitalc1ld has joined. 10:20:29 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:20:33 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:20:34 -!- digitalcold has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:20:35 -!- glowcoil has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:20:35 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:20:36 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:20:37 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:20:37 -!- paul2520 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:20:39 -!- j-bot has joined. 10:20:40 -!- pikhq has joined. 10:20:56 -!- Hoolootwo has joined. 10:21:14 -!- clog has joined. 10:23:57 -!- trnv2 has changed nick to trn. 10:29:18 -!- glowcoil has joined. 10:47:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:52:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:09:34 -!- izabera_ has changed nick to izabera. 11:09:35 -!- izabera has quit (Changing host). 11:09:35 -!- izabera has joined. 11:15:54 -!- int-e_ has changed nick to int-e. 11:19:49 -!- Welo has joined. 11:26:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 11:30:11 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45378&oldid=44908 * Luis Mendo * (+99) 11:31:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:33:02 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45379&oldid=45378 * Luis Mendo * (+71) 11:37:22 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45380&oldid=45379 * Luis Mendo * (+2) 11:37:47 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45381&oldid=45380 * Luis Mendo * (+7) 11:38:54 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45382&oldid=45381 * Luis Mendo * (+2) 12:07:59 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:11:53 -!- TieSoul has joined. 12:12:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:16:22 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:16:28 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 12:16:28 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Client Quit). 12:16:29 -!- lollo64it has joined. 12:16:34 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:16:56 -!- lollo64it has quit (Client Quit). 12:19:35 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:21:39 -!- mroman has joined. 12:22:18 I'm no expert but am I the only one that thinks that those "number arguments" in date-onomics are a bit weird. 12:22:24 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 12:22:33 Granted, there apparentely are more female grads than male grads 12:22:56 Which means that if you restrict dating to the same education level than you have a problem as a female 12:23:09 however, overall there are more men than women in general. 12:23:29 and since some of those women are stuck searching in that 4:3 ratio restricted to the same education level 12:23:47 that would imply that the dating game for men without a high education level just got harder 12:23:48 -!- TieSoul has joined. 12:23:53 @massages-load 12:23:53 oerjan said 10h 51m 12s ago: except for syntax is what the lexer uses, grammar is what the parser uses <-- that sounds to me like almost the exact opposite of the natural language meaning 12:23:53 oerjan said 10h 50m 34s ago: because there, syntax is how you place words, but _not_ how words are composed. 12:25:31 I'd call what a lexer uses/does "tokenization" and say that syntax and grammar are both parser things 12:26:14 *then 12:26:19 I agree with ais523 on this one 12:26:57 if called on the difference between syntax and grammar, I'd say that a grammar is a specification of a syntax 12:27:18 I'd say it depends on in which field you're working. 12:29:56 helloily 12:30:00 oh 12:30:25 i was very scrolled up 12:30:37 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:30:54 hellex 12:53:34 -!- MoALTz_ has changed nick to MoALTz. 13:02:55 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 13:05:59 -!- sinetek has joined. 13:06:00 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 13:16:09 -!- andrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:56:45 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 14:03:02 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:07:04 -!- lleu has joined. 14:29:06 -!- sinetek has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:30:51 -!- sinetek has joined. 14:34:06 -!- zadock has joined. 14:40:22 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:34:19 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:46:23 -!- boily has joined. 16:14:22 <\oren\> good mroing 16:16:39 \hellroen\ 16:18:55 <\oren\> which kanji should I draw today? 16:20:28 \oren\: still the vertical version of the long vowel sign, and those strange repeat signs you don't have yet 16:21:22 \oren\: "ゝゞ" 16:21:36 \oren\: and "〱〲" 16:22:16 but definitely the vertical long vowel sign 16:23:35 <\oren\> Oh, apparently I have ゝゞ but didn't add them. I don't have 〱〲 though, and I couldn't find the vertical long vowel sign 16:24:25 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45383&oldid=45382 * Luis Mendo * (+700) 16:24:47 \oren\: shouldn't that be a variant glyph for the normal long vowel sign, marked such that the font engine or layout engine automatically chooses that variant glyph for vertical text? 16:25:49 \oren\: also, halfwidth korean syllables 16:25:52 no awit 16:25:55 not syllables 16:25:58 halfwidth letters 16:30:31 \oren\: could you please add 肺、管、腹、膵、臓、脾 and 爪? 16:30:56 olsner: hellolsner. do you agree with https://youtu.be/GaGIFtJtuTY ? 16:31:35 I've never tried surströmming 16:33:29 I can't find a can here :( 16:34:11 but these people seem to know what they're doing 16:37:13 i'm hungry now 16:39:04 -!- mauris has joined. 16:40:42 sinetellok. I haven't seem to have had been asked you the The Question: what are your approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh? 16:41:43 wait, The Question still exists? it's not a very good question :-( 16:42:15 his523. it should be improved. 16:43:20 Question. If I want to write an eye dialect representing a child who can't yet pronounce "k" and "g" and so pronounces something close to "t" and "d" instead, then I should represent those letters with a "t" or "d" with what accent? A caron, a comma below, a circumflex? 16:44:55 it's sort-of the opposite of a cedilla 16:45:26 what is an eye dialect? 16:46:04 boily: eye dialect is nonstandard spelling representing the accent of the speaker 16:46:41 boily: eg. Hagrid talks with an eye dialect in Harry Potter, and so does the dwarf Dwalin in Irregular Webcomic! 16:47:03 As well as Belkar in OoTS, except that he also writes that way in that joke. 16:47:56 ť and ď? 16:48:14 `thanks b_jonas 16:48:15 Thanks, b_jonas. Thonas. 16:48:32 boily: so caron? 16:51:18 I was leaning towards a haček, prime or comma below. 16:51:47 hacek is the same as caron, right? 16:53:42 ... 16:53:55 macron is the bar, caron is haček. 16:54:11 so much diacriticonfusion. I am ashamed. 16:54:43 macron makes sense, it marks long vowels, whereas brevis (breve) marks short vowels. originally. 16:57:03 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:02:24 there's also diaresis = trema = umlaut. 17:02:43 -!- sinetek has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."). 17:04:30 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45384&oldid=45383 * Luis Mendo * (+1284) 17:05:55 And "fly droppings" is a general term for all of them hth 17:10:06 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45385&oldid=45384 * Luis Mendo * (+33) 17:10:48 stand still, stay silent sure takes its time to get started... 17:15:27 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45386&oldid=45385 * Luis Mendo * (+42) 17:19:59 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45387&oldid=45386 * Luis Mendo * (-217) 17:22:31 Are you reading the archives or something? 17:24:32 I like the bits that are in Finnish here and there. 17:24:58 (Insert TV Tropes 'Bilingual Bonus' link here.) 17:25:12 * ais523 is disappointed that there haven't been further edits on Three Star Programmer or its talk page 17:25:17 I was quite proud of that language 17:25:29 oh well, I guess I'll have to wait for Keymaker to notice it, it seems like eir sort of language 17:25:36 what... is this a new language? 17:25:44 it is new 17:26:18 yes 17:26:22 as of a couple of days ago 17:26:26 [[e:Three_Star_Programmer] 17:26:28 err 17:26:29 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Three_Star_Programmer 17:26:34 would help if I got my trigger right 17:30:46 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45388&oldid=45387 * Luis Mendo * (+30) 17:32:25 [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45389&oldid=45388 * Luis Mendo * (-2) /* Specification */ 17:32:54 ais523: um, when you ask whether that language is Turing-complete, what are the observables or outputs of that langauge? programs never halt. do you mean with the output extension you describe? 17:33:59 b_jonas: I'm using a loose #esoteric definition along the lines of "given any program in a Turing-equivalent language, you can write a program in «language» that runs in 'the same way' in some easily demonstrable sense" 17:35:27 ais523: right, but that kind of stuff can lead to strange things when you start to make more and more complicated isomorphisms, and eventually the isomorphism itself will run your program 17:35:42 so it might be better to have a clear halt criterion 17:35:43 this is one of the main objections against my 2,3 machine proof 17:36:00 sure, it's the problem with lots of such proofs 17:36:05 although that one does have a clear halt criterion, at least; I found a construction with a semi-infinite tape, where in the halt state it falls off the end 17:36:49 also, you need some limits on what's allowed when you translate the program. 17:45:48 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 17:46:19 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: rebooting). 17:50:02 -!- Melvar has joined. 17:53:50 -!- idris-bot has joined. 17:59:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TABULAR CHICKEN). 18:02:57 oerjan: how do you feel about CHIQRSX9+ being used in code golf competitions? (In particular, in the seven competitions it has a good chance of winning.) 18:05:41 quintopia: I think it also has a decent chance at "make an interpreter for a Turing-complete language" 18:06:04 it'd also do well in an accumulator-incrementing competition, but would at least draw with brainfuck 18:06:29 wait, no, X doesn't work like that 18:06:33 it just makes the language TC in a nonspecified way 18:08:14 b_jonas: any opinions on how the infinite Four Horsemen ruling affects TC M:tG games? 18:08:40 actually it probably doesn't, unless randomness is involevd 18:09:00 ais523: what is that ruling? 18:09:39 link? 18:09:44 b_jonas: that with any infinite loop, you have to be able to specify the number of iterations it takes and the expected end state, or you can't continue going round it 18:10:22 this Reddit thread contains good discussion, and the story it links to complains and quotes the rule itself: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/11k00n/id_like_to_make_awareness_of_a_stupid_ruling_that/ 18:10:55 in this case you can't specify the number of iterations and the expected end state, assuming you're simulating an unsolved problem 18:11:02 but you also can't do anything else 18:13:30 ais523: um, isn't that ruling about tournament rules (avoiding slow play) rather than comprehensive rules? I might be misunderstanding it 18:13:38 b_jonas: yes, tournament rules 18:15:11 If it's about tournament rules, then it can't affect turing-completeness in the sense we were talking about, because clearly setting up a full computational device isn't possible in a tournament anyway, and I already knew that. 18:16:05 ais523: How do you feel about it? Should it be forbidden? (Though I really want to know how oerjan feels about it, since it's his.) 18:16:59 quintopia: well PCCG stack exchange has a rule that the language has to have a certain amount of power, and the usual test is being able to implement one specific program (something to do with printing primes, I think?) withotu cheating 18:17:16 I don't think CHIQRSX9+ can handle that deterministically, with the standard definition of X 18:17:32 although I guess X makes it TC by definition, so it should count 18:17:46 ais523: being turing complete might not be enough 18:17:56 for the golf SE rulings that is] 18:18:16 yes, their definition is intentionally designed to allow relatively powerful sub-TC languages 18:18:24 but may accidentally disallow some TC languages as a result 18:19:26