00:04:24 <oerjan> quintopia: i feel that a deterministic X is against the spirit of the language.
00:05:19 <quintopia> oerjan: what if I found a seed for random numbers such that the current implementation becomes a TM simulator
00:06:04 <oerjan> because that would essentially make the part after X part of CHIQRSX9+ itself.
00:06:22 <int-e> fungot: wait, are you saying that working out leads to death? I mean, okay, it's not wrong, but it is awful marketing nonetheless.
00:06:23 <fungot> int-e: even ignoring the bootstrapping issues ( which yasos makes difficult while t does not contain any intelligible finnish words. reality. distortion. field. you can inflect adjectives, but that's not the lisp way of function application, to support thread interruption and user repl interruption. it costs like fnord a lot
00:06:33 <oerjan> quintopia: the current implementation is a perl simulator if you get 0, hth
00:07:28 <oerjan> ...i suggest you look at it...
00:07:29 <int-e> "(The Perl implementation generates a random number, adds it to each character in the program, and interprets the resulting program code as Perl code.)"
00:07:44 <int-e> (or read ... and believe ... the wiki)
00:08:02 <quintopia> i was thinking it just executed the output of the random number generator directly
00:08:36 <oerjan> <shachaf> how come no one ever told me about fractran tdnh <-- my apologies
00:08:55 <int-e> that would be interesting but less obviously turing complete... in fact, unlikely to be turing complete... uh, hard to say... but there's not much entropy to work with.
00:09:33 <quintopia> well we're not supposed to know whether or not it is actually turing-complete anyway
00:10:15 <quintopia> I suppose one could write a program in the current version that is a TM simulator regardless of the random number
00:10:51 <quintopia> just make the part that becomes legible perl code consider the rest of the program a comment or string
00:11:13 <int-e> shachaf: fwiw, I've seen oerjan talk about fractran quite a bit
00:11:15 <oerjan> quintopia: no, that is not possible; you always risk the first character becoming a perl syntax error. (e.g. a right parenthesis)
00:11:26 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
00:11:59 <shachaf> int-e: i must not have been paying attention
00:12:27 <int-e> fungot's irc is the uncanny semi-sentient style... where one can typically read half a sentence before noticing anything wrong
00:12:34 <oerjan> nope. it's a modulo 256 addition and all numbers 0 <= n < 256 are possible
00:12:38 <int-e> fungot: well, that was a bit cheap
00:12:39 <fungot> int-e: i don't play ircnomic any more either side of the force, of course. i just need to find out how to
00:13:08 <int-e> fungot: anyway, good luck with finding that out
00:13:08 <fungot> int-e: that name fnord not the only) languages where the very nature *is* to be esoteric.... seems like it was before i moved here
00:13:35 <FireFly> int-e: that first response was just beautiful
00:13:38 <oerjan> quintopia: although you could try to aim for maximal probability of being accepted...
00:14:02 <FireFly> `quoteadd <int-e> fungot's irc is the uncanny semi-sentient style... where one can typically read half a sentence before noticing anything wrong <fungot> int-e: yes, i know
00:14:02 <fungot> FireFly: how do i pipe darcs' output to it? if it matters
00:14:03 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quoteadd: not found
00:14:06 <int-e> (it's not that the other styles are that bad, but they do stand out more)
00:14:11 <quintopia> oerjan: what does the current implementation do if such a syntax error is encountered?
00:14:17 <FireFly> `addquote <int-e> fungot's irc is the uncanny semi-sentient style... where one can typically read half a sentence before noticing anything wrong <fungot> int-e: yes, i know
00:14:17 <fungot> FireFly: all planets are in the order of evaluation? isn't that like saying sociology is mostly english and not writing anything
00:14:19 <HackEgo> 1259) <int-e> fungot's irc is the uncanny semi-sentient style... where one can typically read half a sentence before noticing anything wrong <fungot> int-e: yes, i know
00:14:26 <quintopia> oerjan: is there no way to catch such an error?
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00:14:59 <int-e> FireFly: that's mean, my grammar there is worse than fungot's.
00:15:00 <fungot> int-e: you sensitive twit. if a robot collides with a piece of c folklore now. compiler implementors still talk of " mimicing monty python sketches, of course, my owner has to find any
00:15:11 <oerjan> quintopia: whatever perl's eval does, so i'm not sure...
00:15:27 <oerjan> `perl -e eval(")"); eval(print "hi");
00:15:44 <oerjan> int-e: ah it does at least continue with the remaining commands.
00:15:56 <oerjan> (assuming it works as in my test)
00:16:07 <oerjan> that _might_ be enough to make it work?
00:16:10 <FireFly> a twit is someone who twiits
00:16:43 <FireFly> Probably someone who twitters
00:16:54 <int-e> a twitter is someone who turns people into twits
00:17:06 <FireFly> Ah yes, the act of twittering
00:17:56 <shachaf> oerjan: to be fair, int-e never told me about it either
00:18:07 <oerjan> hm i've not thought about that before, the implementation will _still_ interpret everything after X as commands, too
00:18:12 <FireFly> Fractran is an interesting language
00:18:18 <oerjan> including further Xes.
00:18:33 <int-e> (fwiw, 'twit' is an actual english word)
00:20:53 <lambdabot> *** "twit" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
00:20:53 <lambdabot> n 1: someone who is regarded as contemptible [syn: {twerp},
00:20:53 <lambdabot> 2: aggravation by deriding or mocking or criticizing [syn:
00:20:59 <lambdabot> *** "twitter" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
00:21:01 <lambdabot> n 1: a series of chirps [syn: {chirrup}, {twitter}]
00:21:03 <lambdabot> v 1: make high-pitched sounds, as of birds [syn: {chitter},
00:22:07 <int-e> "aggravation by deriding or mocking or criticizing" <-- that does sound like a fair description of twitter(.com).
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00:22:45 <FireFly> Oh, you figured it out. The true etymology
00:24:03 <oerjan> quintopia: actually the implementation errors out at unknown commands, that makes this harder i think.
00:24:58 <oerjan> !chiqrsx9+ XXXXXXXXXXXXX
00:25:29 <oerjan> !chiqrsx9+ XXXXXXXXXXXXXQ
00:25:40 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for interps!
00:25:46 <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
00:25:57 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: _ about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd glogbot_ignore google graph hello helloworld hug id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf san
00:26:09 <oerjan> !chiqrsx9p XXXXXXXXXXXXX
00:26:14 <oerjan> !chiqrsx9p XXXXXXXXXXXXXQ
00:28:35 <oerjan> oh wait it _does_ clear the program.
00:31:23 <quintopia> oerjan: it clears the program and then adds the empty program to the random number?
00:31:44 <quintopia> doesn't sound even *theoretically* TC
00:32:42 <int-e> well you can test all seeds ;)
00:34:16 <quintopia> oh you mean an error clears the program
00:36:37 <int-e> soo... would a machine be Turing-complete if any program had only a 2^(-32) chance of running correctly? This kind of adversarial randomness is quite unusual...
00:37:37 <int-e> (Usually you'd get a chance detect and retry a failed computation, but I don't see how this would work here)
00:38:36 <quintopia> the earliest programmable computers quit working if a moth flew into them...
00:39:08 <quintopia> I suppose the odds they produced a correct result was greater than 2^(-32) but I also think it is in this case
00:44:16 <int-e> Hmm, I guess I'm thinking in terms of models of computation; the point of those is to abstract from hardware failures and resource limitations. In that context, probabilistic models typically allow to get success probabilities arbitrarily close to one, usually by retrying a procedure with a fixed success probability often enough.
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00:45:46 <int-e> But that's perhaps narrow-minded... people trying to guess pin codes are happy even with low success probabilities if they have enough debit cards at their disposal.
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01:12:57 <int-e> somehow this made me smile... http://www.surlyqueen.net/loas/2015/03/05/558-somewhere/
01:17:54 <oerjan> <quintopia> oh you mean an error clears the program <-- i mean an X clears the program after running the rest as perl, error or not.
01:20:45 <oerjan> that's what i intended, i just didn't realize on rereading the code that i'd succeeded.
01:21:23 <oerjan> well, ideally maybe errors should be propagated too.
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02:11:38 <quintopia> oerjan: so the whole "keep executing after an error" is a bust. Which means there is some maximum p<1 probability the X will do anything useful.
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02:37:01 <HackEgo> Nose such file or directory
02:37:43 <oerjan> because all wisdom/ is case lowered by default
02:38:01 <oerjan> and boily for some reason rejected that
02:38:14 <oerjan> well it means it will never show up with `? that way
02:38:32 * oerjan considers `wisdom borderline heresy
02:39:17 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom/*"$1"* -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
02:40:02 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/shuf/grep -v "[A-Z]" | shuf' bin/wisdom
02:40:03 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 29: unterminated `s' command
02:40:11 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/shuf/grep -v "[A-Z]/" | shuf' bin/wisdom
02:40:12 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 23: unknown option to `s'
02:40:23 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/shuf/grep -v "[A-Z]" | shuf/' bin/wisdom
02:40:31 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom/*"$1"* -type f | grep -v "[A-Z]" | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
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02:42:06 <oerjan> `` find wisdom/"*wisdom*" -type f
02:42:07 <HackEgo> find: `wisdom/*wisdom*': No such file or directory
02:42:17 <oerjan> `` find wisdom/*"wisdom"* -type f
02:42:19 <HackEgo> wisdom/something-that-isn't-in-hackego's-wisdom \ wisdom/wisdom \ wisdom/wisdome
02:42:47 <izabera> it's also wrong in that it should use -name
02:43:01 <izabera> `` find wisdom -name "*wisdom*" -type f
02:43:02 <HackEgo> wisdom/something-that-isn't-in-hackego's-wisdom \ wisdom/wisdome \ wisdom/wisdom
02:43:32 <oerjan> `` ls wisdom/* | grep '[*]'
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02:44:13 <HackEgo> brainf**k/There is no such thing as brainf**k. You may be thinking of brainfuck.
02:44:24 <izabera> the whole point of find over a shell glob in cases like this is to avoid E2BIG
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02:45:59 <oerjan> yes, but it would break the vital case of `wisdom ** hth
02:46:34 <izabera> i wouldn't say "break" tho
02:46:57 <oerjan> admittedly it's sort of properly ironic.
02:48:13 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \
02:48:28 <HackEgo> F="$(find wisdom/*"$1"* -type f | grep -v "[A-Z]" | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
02:49:30 <HackEgo> nooodl is the correct spelling
02:49:34 <HackEgo> nooooodl is the correct spelling
02:49:45 <FireFly> izabera: rnooodl is a very important program
02:49:57 <HackEgo> perl -pe 's/([Nn])ooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge'
02:50:04 <oerjan> `mk/x bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*"$(echo "$1" | lowercase)"*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
02:50:05 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/mk/x: No such file or directory
02:50:15 <oerjan> `mkx bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*"$(echo "$1" | lowercase)"*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
02:50:29 <HackEgo> something-that-isn't-in-hackego's-wisdom/It is now.
02:50:38 <HackEgo> key=$(mk "$@") && echo "$key" && chmod +x "$key"
02:51:18 <oerjan> `wisdom misspellings of
02:51:19 <HackEgo> find: paths must precede expression: of* \ Usage: find [-H] [-L] [-P] [-Olevel] [-D help|tree|search|stat|rates|opt|exec] [path...] [expression] \ /cat: : No such file or directory
02:52:05 <HackEgo> cat: bin/nooodl: No such file or directory
02:52:09 <HackEgo> cat: bin/noodl: No such file or directory
02:52:13 <oerjan> `mkx bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*""$(echo "$1" | lowercase)""*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
02:52:18 <oerjan> `wisdom misspellings of
02:52:19 <HackEgo> misspellings of croissant/misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
02:52:26 <\oren\> I'm working on making a program to autogenerate my font character inventory page
02:52:40 <izabera> i thought it was auto generated already
02:52:53 <\oren\> No, I just add characters manually each time
02:53:11 <oerjan> hm that looks redundant
02:53:19 <\oren\> which is why sometimes there are errors like characters in the font but not on the page, or vice versa
02:53:26 <oerjan> `mkx bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
02:53:30 <oerjan> `wisdom misspellings of
02:53:31 <HackEgo> misspellings of croissant/misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
02:53:39 <HackEgo> tanebventory/The Tanebventory is big. Really big. For one thing, it contains a Hilbert hotel.
02:53:39 <izabera> do you mean generating it via php every time it's requested?
02:54:19 <izabera> i mean it probably won't overload your server but still <.<
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02:56:01 <HackEgo> friendship/friendship wisdom
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03:07:55 <\oren\> izabera: nah, i'll generate it each time I upload a new version of my font.
03:13:13 <izabera> i wrote this: http://arin.ga/anwWvN/raw
03:13:28 <izabera> it's one of the best pieces of bash code i've ever written
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03:14:29 <izabera> wrote it to show how clear looking bash can be (and there's a hidden trick that makes it possible and that trick is the part i'm proud of)
03:16:04 <izabera> if you find it you win a unicorn*
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03:16:15 <izabera> *unicorn is pink and invisible
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03:35:45 <FireFly> I guess that is a global `return`, seems kinda icky
03:36:03 <deltab> another way to return is echo and $( )
03:37:20 <deltab> use of "$@" to pass on all args?
03:37:36 <izabera> that's... just what $@ does?
03:37:58 <izabera> anyway every variable you affect in $( ) is lost afterwards
03:38:12 <izabera> so you can't swap things in the array with $( )
03:39:46 <izabera> anyway the trick is to use $A[i] in (( ))
03:39:54 <deltab> the name of the array being passed in
03:40:26 <izabera> $A[i] is not an array, $A expands to the name, followed by [i]
03:40:31 <izabera> and (( )) uses it as an array
03:40:37 <izabera> so that's the magic thing \o/
03:42:09 <izabera> but it looks so natural :D
03:44:18 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/allchars.htm
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03:45:43 <\oren\> or in my better spelling system DerR
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03:47:29 <FireFly> Neat.. your font supports some characters that render incorrectly for me in the .txt file
03:47:33 <\oren\> izabera: some are glitched
03:48:03 <izabera> there's a missing one in the 4th line from the bottom in the chineese characters rectangle
03:48:14 <HackEgo> U+1F16 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: e1 bc 96 UTF-16BE: 1f16 Decimal: ἖ \ () \ Uppercase: U+1F16 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) \ \ U+1F17 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: e1 bc 97 UTF-16BE: 1f17 Decimal: ἗ \ () \ Uppercase: U+1F17 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigne
03:48:44 <FireFly> Oh, maybe you have some private-use characters?
03:48:48 <izabera> \oren\: you should add a sample text to show it
03:48:50 <\oren\> these two I drew based on the pattern set by the others in its block
03:50:06 <\oren\> some characters are private use, others I simply stole from innocent blocks for my own use
03:51:38 <\oren\> e.g. ➀➁➂➃➄➅➆➇➈➉ which I drew instead as lowercase numbers
03:53:35 <izabera> add a sample $language text near the $language characters
03:53:45 <FireFly> OTF has ways to encode alternate character sets for things like text numerals
03:54:39 <\oren\> I try to stay far away from things like that
03:55:13 <\oren\> hard enough to draw all these characters without mucking with various technicalia
03:57:16 <\oren\> what's a good sample text
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04:02:29 <deltab> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/unicode.html#examples
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04:07:19 <lifthrasiir> I just imagined a pan-Unicode bitmap font which is initially randomly constructed then optimized so that each glyph has a distinct shape (even by one pixel) while minimizing the differences to the source font
04:16:47 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm << updated with some sample texts
04:17:27 <izabera> what does the runes one say?
04:18:38 <\oren\> it's the first stanza of this http://www.ragweedforge.com/rpaa.html
04:35:47 <\oren\> anyway, the autogeneration rpgram is here http://www.orenwatson.be/ttfinvread.htm
04:36:35 <izabera> please use a syntax highlighter that understands 0x80
04:41:02 <izabera> you check newlinemode in a loop but you never change its value inside of it
04:41:53 <\oren\> newlinemode is used to determine when a newline should be used, to format the characters into rows
04:42:27 <\oren\> mode 0 is used for areas of scattered characters like the chinese
04:42:44 <\oren\> mode 1 is used for blocks of characters that are all defines
04:48:30 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: what is a purpose of U+038D and U+03A2?
04:48:38 <lifthrasiir> (looking at http://www.orenwatson.be/allchars.htm )
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05:12:36 <oerjan> fizzie: Gregor: did esolangs.org's certificate just expire
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05:23:19 <pikhq> Gregor: fizzie: I hear Let's Encrypt exists.
05:25:40 <izabera> meaning you need an invite
05:27:09 <\oren\> lifthrasiir: it's a maker's mark
05:53:31 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: I know, I wondered what U+038D reads (it actually said VER 8 in the vertical reading) at first. now the question is: why is it there? :)
06:00:50 <\oren\> because originally I was usign fontstruct.com to make my font, and it doesn't support the privat euse area
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06:15:26 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: are you interested in supporting all Hanguls?
06:17:09 <oerjan> *sigh* my computer rebooted again.
06:17:10 <\oren\> not until i finish all joyo kanji
06:17:46 <oerjan> then i did a stupid choice that i too late realized would wipe out much _more_ than i intended - and somehow it failed to go through.
06:18:09 <oerjan> now let's see if i can find the recovery option i actually wanted.
06:19:42 <oerjan> fuck, the recovery points have been wiped out.
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06:24:03 <\oren\> shut it down and boot a rescue disk, backup your shit
06:24:54 <oerjan> an interesting proposition, if i had a rescue disk.
06:26:19 <oerjan> i have one, somewhere. no idea where it is after the move.
06:26:50 <\oren\> alternatively, can you transplant the drive into a working computer?
06:27:06 <oerjan> i have only one computing device
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06:30:37 <\oren\> hmmm... hard to do without a second computer, but you could maybe burn a disk at an internet cafe?
06:31:19 <^v> i am creating my most esoteric language yet
06:31:20 <oerjan> please stop making suggestions.
06:31:28 <^v> consisting of only ^ and v
06:31:37 <^v> i finnaly decided how its going to work
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06:37:58 <^v> :< This server could not prove that it is esolangs.org; its security certificate expired 1 day(s) ago.
06:38:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * PixelToast * New user account
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08:18:46 <Taneb> `? people who taneb is not
08:18:48 <HackEgo> elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond
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08:25:03 <shachaf> Taneb: is that a complete list?
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08:42:47 <oerjan> hmph it is downloading that broken upgrade again...
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08:55:17 <b_jonas> \oren\: oh nice, you've improved the sample page
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09:00:35 <b_jonas> \oren\: in the autogenerated list of all characters, can you list the total count of glyphs you have in the font, computed automatically?
09:02:37 <b_jonas> \oren\: also, in the sample texts, can you add some Serbian or Macedonian etc text that shows off the ј and ѓ characters?
09:03:17 <b_jonas> \oren\: incidentally, does the cyrillic Ј and the latin J look the same in your font?
09:04:35 <b_jonas> \oren\: also, do the cyrillic Ѕ and І look the same as the latin S and I resp?
09:10:21 <b_jonas> make that s/the ј and ѓ characters/the ј, ѓ, љ, њ characters/
09:11:19 <fizzie> oerjan: Oh, I saw an expiration warning from StartSSL but didn't think of esolangs.org. Annoying.
09:12:32 <fizzie> I'd really prefer let senc rypt, but their public beta doesn't start until Dec 3rd.
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11:00:14 <fungot> b_jonas: and if it still is.
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12:12:50 <fizzie> fungot: What's your favourite woodwind instrument?
12:12:50 <fungot> fizzie: you probably know, but that wasn't my point, of course. that's what lexical scope is highly useful for debugging which you can only move in fnord in slib.
12:13:13 <fizzie> fungot: No, I don't know, that's why was asking.
12:13:13 <fungot> fizzie: too far? what's that
12:14:03 <boily> Concerto in Fnord minor for a Lexical Scope.
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12:55:02 <izabera> sedgewick writes in comic sans http://www.sorting-algorithms.com/static/QuicksortIsOptimal.pdf
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13:14:55 <Jafet> It's a legible font.
13:15:34 <Jafet> \oren\'s would be too, if not for that s.
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14:07:46 <izabera> http://imgur.com/gallery/6cXwaMG prettyyyyy *_*
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14:20:14 <\oren\> izabera: looks like a rare steak
14:20:48 <Taneb> idris-bot? I mean izabera
14:20:59 <Taneb> I am not very good at tab-completing on this client
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15:27:21 <int-e> http://imgur.com/gallery/RG7Kd is cute... and a puzzle: 1) in which direction did the camera scan the image? 2) how many rotor blades are there? 3) how many rotations did the propellor make while the picture was scanned?
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16:23:51 <b_jonas> shachaf, oerjan: ring the obell
16:24:48 <HackEgo> olist overflow: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
16:25:12 <int-e> hmm, N+1 might have been closer to my intention
16:25:24 <int-e> I don't read oots, I have no clue what the current number is.
16:25:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BrainfuckX]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45421 * Gemdude46 * (+1569) Created page with "BrainfuckX is an extension of brainfuck that is backwards compatible with all uncommented brainfuck programs. Cells are unsigned bytes. Cell pointer starts in the leftmost ce..."
16:26:24 <int-e> and now the bell is rung.
16:27:47 <Jafet> Deserving of an obell prize
17:05:22 <mroman> fungot doesn't know what too far means
17:05:22 <fungot> mroman: i find that bugs are easy to do,
17:05:40 <mroman> Introducing bugs is easy, introducing security vulnerabilites is hard work.
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17:54:22 <nchambers> <int-e> I don't read oots, I have no clue what the current number is. ← 1000 I believe
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18:12:54 * Taneb seems to be trying out for University Challenge again
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18:28:53 <FireFly> It's above 1000, but thereabout
18:31:35 <b_jonas> correct. that means it will probably be just short of the round number by the end of the year
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19:04:35 <GoToTell> int-e, I gave your puzzle some thought. 1) If I'm correct in assuming/guessing the propeller is rotating clockwise, then: from right to left. 2) 3 (every vertical line never crosses more than two different propeller slices) 3) around 2 and one thirds. (7 distinctive propeller... Shrugs, spacetime sections divided by 3, and some "feeling about the angles.")
19:04:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Spatial logic]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45422 * Hppavilion1 * (+430) Created first paragraph
19:08:13 <int-e> GoToTell: sounds about right (though my guess is more like 5/3 turns)
19:28:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[WARP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45423&oldid=43695 * 210.86.93.89 * (+11) Point to github repo for source
19:28:46 <Taneb> I think I did OK in the University Challenge try-out
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19:30:18 <GoToTell> For the show itself, or the chance to reprisent your uni?
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19:32:03 <int-e> GoToTell: well, I picture it as this, the 7th blade is the same as the 1st blade, so when the 7th blade makes it to where the 1st blade started, then we'll have two full turns... but there's still some way to go before that happens.
19:32:13 <Taneb> GoToTell: the latter
19:32:18 <Taneb> University of York
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19:35:51 <GoToTell> The way I see it is that's nor really a 7tth blade, only A B C passing where the line scanned through. Any group of three of those sections have to be A B and C in sequence... wait I think I'm coming round
19:36:22 <GoToTell> I'm counting when I sound maybe be measuring area.Okay.
19:37:18 <GoToTell> Taneb, that's awesome. Used to watch University Challenge all the time.
19:37:33 <Taneb> Tried out last year, didn't do very well
19:37:44 <Taneb> I think I've done a little bit better this year, but I don't know yet
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19:39:09 <GoToTell> I mean, your group's members each have their specialty, right?
19:39:22 <Taneb> Well, this is still at the individual try-out stage
19:39:33 <izabera> "your black cat just broke your mirror. what do you do?"
19:40:06 <Taneb> Wonder when I got a cat
19:40:08 <izabera> option b is bleach the cat
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19:41:32 <izabera> c is just a boring "none of the previous answers"
19:41:52 <Taneb> I think option b is illegal under animal cruelty laws
19:41:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Temporal logic]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45424 * Hppavilion1 * (+1246) Created page with main paragraph, section on paths, and defining operators based on Wiki's list
19:42:42 <izabera> yeah but your cat just granted you e^pi years of bad luck so it's kinda justified
19:42:50 <GoToTell> Cruelty to the unlucky black cat. Not the new white cat you have. So no victim, no crime.
19:43:13 <Taneb> In some places black cats are good luck!
19:43:55 <Taneb> Most of the UK, I believe
19:44:09 <int-e> http://static.nichtlustig.de/toondb/010929.html "sorry, but did you see my cat? it is a black cat. pitch black. black." - "with that attitude you'll never find it"
19:45:02 <FireFly> I always found de:ganz funny, because sv:ganska means "somewhat"
19:45:05 <Taneb> And Japan, apparently
19:45:12 <int-e> (not sure how to add the "verkrampft")
19:45:36 <myname> int-e: seems like one of the less funny comics from him
19:46:00 <int-e> myname: interesting, it's one of my favorites actually
19:46:33 <int-e> but in any case I was just reacting to the idea of bleaching the cat
19:47:17 <int-e> and "narrow-minded" fits
19:47:39 <myname> i should add it to my new webcomiclist nontheless
19:47:48 <myname> but i like ruthe more, actually
19:48:39 <izabera> entschuldigung == sorry? wtf
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19:49:31 <izabera> common words are short, so germans probably don't say sorry very often
19:50:08 <hppavilion[1]> A logic that is interpreted as being executed by a set of entities, each of which has knowledge about the state of variables
19:50:12 <myname> izabera: i do think a long word actually suits it very good
19:50:30 <myname> like, if you say it, you probably mean it more than if you just say sorry
19:50:43 <int-e> izabera: it's funny you say that... I say "sorry" a lot more often than "entschuldigung" :P
19:51:42 <FireFly> I do too (although with "ursäkta" instead, which is our word for the same thing)... it's interesting, sometimes I've had people reply to me in english due to it
19:51:46 <myname> also, entschuldigung makes sense since it comes from schuld. something that's your fault, that you want to neutralize
19:51:47 <hppavilion[1]> A programming language which's type system is based on Knowledge Logic would be strongly-typed, but you could lie to the type checker xD
19:52:32 <myname> hppavilion[1]: sounds great
19:52:55 <hppavilion[1]> GoToTell: It is, to some degree. It's useful for human interactions
19:53:34 <GoToTell> Would the entities infer stuff for themselves?
19:54:09 <GoToTell> If so, then their logic would have to be different from Knoledge logic.
19:54:24 <myname> knowledge logic is already a tjing
19:57:10 <myname> the idea, i am not sure what itks named
19:57:23 <myname> we used it on an AI course last semester
19:57:29 <GoToTell> Sorry, I was making a low effort joke. :P
19:58:16 <hppavilion[1]> Is it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemic_logic?
19:58:53 <hppavilion[1]> What other weird stuff we could we do with formal logic?
19:59:16 <Taneb> modal logic is fun
19:59:17 <myname> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemic_modal_logic
20:00:07 <myname> the nice thing about making a language based on it is the fact that you can easily checl its correctness
20:00:30 <GoToTell> Well, there's Time logic. And there's fuzzy logic. But there's no fuzzy time logic, ie drunk logic... yet.
20:01:10 <mauris> "sorry" is very common in dutch, somehow
20:01:17 <hppavilion[1]> Though Temporal Knowledge Logic could be cool, or "Learning Logic"
20:01:21 <Taneb> The dutch are naturally apologetic
20:07:16 <hppavilion[1]> Could we make combinatory versions of normal logics?
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20:20:17 <hppavilion[1]> (I HAVE SOLVED ENDING A PARENTHETICAL STATEMENT WITH AN EMOTICON KIND OF! WHOO! :) |)
20:21:31 <myname> what if you aren't sorry?
20:21:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Spatial logic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45425&oldid=45422 * Hppavilion1 * (+480) Some stuff
20:22:04 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Then you don't use the "Sorry but" operator
20:22:18 <hppavilion[1]> It's an additional operator, not an additional one
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20:24:06 <GoToTell> Apology used to mean "in defense of" so maybe an apologetic function could maybe not only return results, but also highlights of it did toi get that result.
20:26:43 <GoToTell> 1 aNAND 0 would return [1, "there was a 0", sorry"]
20:33:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45426 * Hppavilion1 * (+590) Created Page, now to figure out the Φ combinator
20:33:58 <hppavilion[1]> myname: It allows you to establish an arbitrary new axiom to fix it? Or something?
20:34:42 <hppavilion[1]> Because that would be a contradiction, and that is bad.
20:37:06 <myname> there was actually the idea of a friend of mine to make something like a game where everybody mixes in axioms until they contradict
20:37:33 <myname> you can either add an axiom or call the previous player a liar
20:37:51 <myname> if the previous player can disprove you, you are out. otherwise it's him
20:41:25 <izabera> what happens when a player is unable to find a proof that the previous player is lying?
20:42:02 <myname> well, that's his problem
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20:43:40 <izabera> so you have to find the oldest lie?
20:45:37 <izabera> A lies, B can't disprove A, B doesn't lie, C finds a flaw that's caused by what A said, B is out, remove what B said and replace it with what C says
20:45:58 <izabera> the system is still contradictory so D can disprove C
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20:46:31 <GoToTell> A invents non euclidian geometry, B tries for 2000 years to disprove it.
20:50:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45427&oldid=45426 * Hppavilion1 * (+1306) Combinators (α and β)
20:51:08 <izabera> if C can prove that A was lying, can e remove both B and A? i.e. everything since the oldest lie
20:51:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45428&oldid=45427 * Hppavilion1 * (+1) /* Combinators */ Fixed convention
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20:55:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45429&oldid=45428 * Hppavilion1 * (+384) Examples
20:56:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45430&oldid=45429 * Hppavilion1 * (+1) /* Combinators */ Fixed convention. Again. The same convention. In the same place. It didn't take.
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20:59:53 <myname> that may be discussed. but i think B should.be removed because he couldn't disprove A
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21:04:11 <myname> itks already hard enough
21:04:44 <hppavilion[1]> My grammar for CTL (Combinatory Temporal Logic) has a quirk: You can apply a combinator to an assignment (e.g. `K(I=SKK)`). What should this do?
21:06:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45431&oldid=45430 * Hppavilion1 * (+1496) Grammar and semantics
21:07:32 <izabera> the interesting part is that they must be axioms
21:08:06 <izabera> so i guess player C can remove player B from the game if C can prove that what B said follows from what A said
21:10:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Combinatory logic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45432&oldid=45418 * Hppavilion1 * (+627) Grammar, in case anyone is wondering.
21:10:11 <izabera> so not only lies, but also theorems get you expelled
21:10:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Combinatory logic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45433&oldid=45432 * Hppavilion1 * (+2) Fixed the location of the grammar
21:12:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45434&oldid=45431 * Hppavilion1 * (+0) /* Combinators */ Fixed the λ-calculular S definition
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21:16:03 <hppavilion[1]> @tell zzo38 Found an article on how type systems are logics: https://codewords.recurse.com/issues/one/type-systems-and-logic
21:20:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Combinatory logic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45435&oldid=45433 * Hppavilion1 * (+50) Added a link to Combinatory temporal logic
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21:48:47 <myname> seriosly, why is 0 called either zero, oh or naught
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21:51:54 <Taneb> I'm through to the next stage of the trials for my uni's University Challenge team!
22:06:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Combinatory logic/Analysis of combinators]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45436 * Hppavilion1 * (+3271) Started on the page
22:14:15 <Taneb> Next round is on Saturday
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22:21:24 <fizzie> oerjan: Them certificates should be renovated now.
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22:29:00 <oerjan> dammit computer's doing something wrong again
22:30:11 <oerjan> maybe my disk is completely shot. at least i managed to backup yesterday.
22:31:50 <oerjan> ooh something reacted.
22:33:03 <oerjan> and windows asked me if i wanted to kill this process, which was seemingly the desktop.
22:33:23 <izabera> systemd is not responding. kill it?
22:33:38 <oerjan> well i expect it would normally restart?
22:33:53 <oerjan> anyway, i guess i have to do a hard shutdown. wish me luck.
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22:40:04 <oerjan> i am trying to let it download that big update again, and try once more.
22:40:32 <oerjan> i have this last desperate hope that if it would only go through, things would get fixed.
22:40:58 <oerjan> it's downloading very slowly though.
22:41:23 <oerjan> and it's possible that some of the other surprise reboots happened when it finally downloaded.
22:41:37 <oerjan> and then fails, and tries again.
22:42:06 <oerjan> but clearly that's not the only thing wrong. my hope is that it's only a result of the update breaking the first time.
22:42:50 <oerjan> hm if chkdsk at startup finds any errors, would it report it while running?
22:43:04 <oerjan> because it definitely didn't. in which case my disk might be fine.
22:43:58 <oerjan> the message that it tried to get me to read before i shutdown hard disappeared after i did.
22:44:16 <oerjan> (i couldn't get it to react to my button press on it, or almost anything else.)
22:44:39 <oerjan> download went up from 76& to 77%
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22:48:34 <oerjan> why did the network icon change.
22:49:06 <oerjan> boily: my computer is behaving weirdly, i'm currently blaming it on a half-gone-through windows update.
22:49:41 <izabera> something something network complot. effort
22:50:11 <oerjan> well the network isn't the thing giving trouble, i think.
22:50:51 * boily does the Chicken Invocation Dance to get rid of oerjan's machine's demons
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22:54:17 <oerjan> auto restart because of detected problem
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22:54:37 <oerjan> sounds about right, it was burning CPU.
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22:55:15 <oerjan> if it can actually _manage_ to reboot now...
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22:56:28 <oerjan> fan is running hard again
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22:59:19 <boily> oerjan: I think your possibilities dwindled to only the Nuclear Manœuvre: strangulation by power button.
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23:07:29 <oerjan> i think i'm going to have turn it off permanently. bye soon...
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23:11:16 <oerjan> boily: oh and yes, i did.
23:11:30 <oerjan> then it ran chkdsk, and _chkdsk_ locked up without finishing.
23:11:41 <oerjan> then it rebooted and here i am, for the moment.
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23:13:21 <oerjan> i guess it must be a disk error, then. :(
23:18:25 <oerjan> possible chkdsk did help for a while
23:20:19 <boily> backup and swap HDD...
23:20:30 <oerjan> first i need to get one
23:21:45 <oerjan> i backuped the important stuff to my nvg account yesterday.
23:22:19 <izabera> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic#Computerized_version do you guys know this?
23:22:49 * oerjan played schemenomic once.
23:25:21 <oerjan> funny, my previous computer worked (reasonably) well for 7 years, this one breaks after 2 1/2...
23:26:31 <oerjan> i'm wondering if the download is supposed to be this slow, or it's just the disk causing it...
23:27:04 <oerjan> mind you, it _is_ a windows version upgrade.
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23:37:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45437&oldid=45370 * Hppavilion1 * (+150) /* Syntax */ Completely changed the syntax from normal fungoid to CSV
23:43:50 * Sgeo_ will look at Nomyx if it's still active
23:43:55 <Sgeo_> Sounds vaguely familiar
23:45:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45438&oldid=45437 * Hppavilion1 * (+420) Fixed formatting error, adjusted data model
23:48:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Treeng]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45439 * Hppavilion1 * (+376) Created Page
23:48:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45440&oldid=45438 * Hppavilion1 * (+0) /* Data Model */ Fixed meanings
23:51:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45441&oldid=45440 * Hppavilion1 * (+102) /* Commands */ Added Δs
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23:59:08 <\oren\> oerjan: the most reliable compters I find are business laptops