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00:07:53 <zgrep> FreeFull: Not what happened. :P
00:07:58 <zgrep> izabera: Not what I meant.
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00:08:18 <zgrep> FreeFull: Well, it's meant to do that, but that's not what I wanted to happen.
00:11:45 <izabera> can i create a page about that brace expansion thingy?
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00:43:44 <oerjan> not even ctrl-alt-del works...
00:47:58 <oerjan> it seems like any programs i want started, i must start shortly after the machine boots
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00:50:17 <oerjan> and then i must not leave it idle too long, or it will reboot.
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01:37:16 <boily> hellœrjan. are you still suffering from an unstable machine?
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01:41:43 <HackEgo> Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno kaj ellaso de esoteraj programlingvoj! Por pli da informado, vizitu la Viki-on: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Por la alia speco de esotero, iru al #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.)
01:41:57 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/{bonvenon,welcome.eo}
01:42:15 <HackEgo> grep: bin/selflink: Too many levels of symbolic links
01:42:36 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 8 Jun 21 02:47 bin/selflink -> selflink
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01:59:15 <\oren\> what characters should I add today?
02:03:07 <izabera> the ones you forgot yesterday
02:04:56 <boily> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Seh9_sFv1Z4
02:05:14 <boily> (this video is dedicated to all this fine channel's insomniacs.)
02:05:27 <boily> \oren\: have you covered the jōyō kanji yet?
02:06:20 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeiTkkp2TKM
02:06:25 <boily> izabera: it was one of the videos showcased yesterday night.
02:06:51 <\oren\> yay let's all pst youtube links without any clue to what they point to
02:07:05 <boily> you see, every Monday night, I attend the «Lundi Douteux». it's a weekly event in a bar near home where they show disturbing and disquieting things on a screen.
02:08:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * SilverWingedSeraph * New user account
02:09:12 <boily> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLy-AwdCOmI
02:09:50 <boily> izabera: of course not. it goes deeper.
02:19:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:SilverWingedSeraph]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45463 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+24) Create empty page.
02:20:58 <boily> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTIkCbDdBNc
02:21:33 <boily> @localtime izabera
02:21:34 <lambdabot> Local time for izabera is Wed, 18 Nov 2015 03:20:17 +0100
02:21:49 <boily> izabera: shouldn't you be sleeping?
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02:28:25 * oerjan realizes he forgot to include the OOTS book in his backup, it wasn't in Documents
02:30:43 <boily> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
02:32:52 <izabera> i should rather block time requests
02:34:53 <boily> time to pillow for me. bonne nuizabera!
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02:36:52 <oerjan> @tell boily no, my computer _is_ still working enough to copy more
02:37:16 -!- Warrigal_ has changed nick to tswett.
02:49:49 <tswett> I just proved that for a natural number n, the n-fold successor of 1 is the successor of n.
02:53:11 <tswett> Dang, if I keep this up, I might just be able to prove that the natural numbers are a commutative semiring.
02:56:18 <oerjan> tswett: russell and whitehead, eat your heart out!
02:57:03 <tswett> I'm using possibly the minimum feasible axiomatization of the natural numbers.
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02:57:42 <tswett> I'm not even admitting logic.
02:58:02 <tswett> My system has no concept of disjunction.
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03:09:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45464&oldid=45315 * Blakusl * (+14) Adding Brackit language
03:09:47 <\oren\> oerjan: oh, good, you're doing backups. are you going to nuke the computer after or just get a new one?
03:11:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45465 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+7733) Create page and add specification, description, and sample programs.
03:14:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45466&oldid=45465 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+12) Fix categorization.
03:17:39 <tswett> Woo! I proved addition commutative, and it only took about ten minutes.
03:18:23 <tswett> Lemme describe my system.
03:19:08 <tswett> The ambient "logic" is that of a finite limit category.
03:20:44 <tswett> Better known as a finitely complete category.
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03:22:24 <tswett> "There are natural numbers. Zero is a natural number. The successor of a natural number is a natural number. Given a value z and a function s, there is a function R such that R(zero) = z and for all n, R(succ(n)) = s(R(n)). Given two functions f and g, if f(zero) = g(zero), and f(succ(n)) = g(succ(n)) whenever f(n) = g(n), then f = g."
03:25:29 -!- myndzl has changed nick to myndzi.
03:27:12 <tswett> My hope is that that's enough to prove... a bunch of stuff.
03:27:21 <tswett> It's enough to prove addition commutative!
03:34:21 <\oren\> Holy shit awesome tweets going out under hashtag #ISISクソコラグランプリ
03:34:37 <\oren\> (Isis eat shit grand prix)
03:37:55 <\oren\> wait, no. ISIS shit collage grand prix
03:39:09 <izabera> `` sed -r "s|([+-])|))\1((|g;s|([*/])|)\1(|g;s|.*|((&))|" <<< "a*b+c^d/e"
03:42:11 <oerjan> \oren\: decisions, decisions.
03:43:29 <\oren\> oerjan: they made a girl chracter called ISIS chan who wears a burka and likes melons for some reason
03:46:06 <\oren\> https://twitter.com/ztube_
03:46:37 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: AFAIK the melon signifies a severed head
03:50:10 <\oren\> well hopefully this annoys the real isis
03:51:48 <lifthrasiir> uh, I don't think so, ISIS uses a media outlet as a primary tactic and it may repurpose the character for its own good
04:13:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~EarthBit]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45467 * Conor O'Brien * (+865) Created page with "'''EarthBit''' is a [[Joke language]] that is interesting in that all the operators are confused. == Syntax == In EarthBit there are numeric literals, the only data type. Eac..."
04:14:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~EarthBit]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45468&oldid=45467 * Conor O'Brien * (+19)
04:14:55 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas <b_jonas> oerjan, help me! <-- FP? doesn't sound quite like it though.
04:15:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~EarthBit]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45469&oldid=45468 * Phase * (+0)
04:17:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~EarthBit]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45470&oldid=45469 * Conor O'Brien * (+167)
04:18:25 <\oren\> Maybe I should also output a breakdown of my font by blocks
04:22:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Conor O'Brien]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45471&oldid=45309 * Conor O'Brien * (+33) /* Languages I have made */
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04:54:33 <\oren\> is there an equivalent to sed that works well with binary files?
04:56:04 <izabera> there's gcc + your c skills
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05:06:05 <izabera> do you need it for your font?
05:08:18 <oerjan> hmph another surprise reboot but at least IE recovered the tabs
05:13:28 <hppavilion[1]> I think I'll work on Kastor and how literals work in it
05:20:23 <quintopia> why is the overlap between this channel and the ppcg stack exchange so narrow?
05:24:59 <izabera> https://youtu.be/xdRvmHqhiHA oooh cool
05:51:19 <hppavilion[1]> I'm considering having a different between => and : dicts in Kastor, but I don't know what to make the difference xD
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06:36:00 <newsham> oren: file('out', 'wb').write(file('in', 'rb').read().replace('this','that'))
06:39:07 <izabera> am i the only one thinking that chriss cornell looks like christian bale?
06:39:40 <izabera> http://www.metalinsider.net/site/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/chris-cornell-soundgarden-353x.jpg
06:40:18 <izabera> also listen to this, it's awesome even if it's not my genre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpMfZPAc1kg
06:41:58 <\oren\> he looks baleful indeed
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06:45:58 <newsham> all those irish guys look the same to me
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07:12:18 <b_jonas> \oren\: "is there an equivalent to sed that works well with binary files?" => perl
07:16:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tobsta * New user account
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07:29:50 <adu> b_jonas: xxd
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08:15:56 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, that might be what I was thinking, and indeed it's similar: it doesn't have a builtin like the rule 5 of David's machine, but only a separate B-like composition builtin and a list-building builtin
08:22:07 <b_jonas> Also, I was thinking more of David's language, and I definitely get the esoteric jive from it, so now I'm sure it's an esolang that deserves to be examined more.
08:29:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brackit]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45472 * Blakusl * (+5757) Creating the page.
08:36:48 <b_jonas> I'll have to write about it later.
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08:40:05 <b_jonas> ] 12*-/(2-%:3)(^%])1+2*i.14
08:40:17 <b_jonas> ] 1j15": 12*-/(2-%:3)(^%])1+2*i.14
08:40:30 <b_jonas> ] 0j15": 12*-/(2-%:3)(^%])1+2*i.14
08:40:30 <evalj> b_jonas: 3.141592653589794
08:40:49 <b_jonas> ] 0j15": (($&0 12 0 _12%i.)28)p.2-%:3
08:40:50 <evalj> b_jonas: 3.141592653589794
08:40:59 <evalj> b_jonas: 3.141592653589793
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09:38:14 <izabera> https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/201/ i solved this but my solution is too slow http://arin.ga/cZMwGs/raw
09:38:22 <izabera> any hint to improve it? :\
09:39:51 <izabera> a better algorithm or i dunno
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10:12:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45473 * B jonas * (+4724) Created page with "'''Amycus''' is simple Turing-equivalent functional programming language defined by [[David Madore]] in [http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2015-11-16.2337.html#d.2015-11-1..."
10:14:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45474&oldid=45473 * B jonas * (+112)
10:16:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hyperamicus]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45475 * B jonas * (+2387) Created page with "'''Hyperamycus''' is a functional programming language defined by [[David Madore]] in [http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2015-11-16.2337.html#d.2015-11-16.2337 his 2015-11..."
10:20:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hyperamicus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45476&oldid=45475 * B jonas * (+509)
10:20:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[David Madore]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45477&oldid=8771 * B jonas * (+41)
10:23:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45478&oldid=45474 * B jonas * (+335)
10:25:31 <b_jonas> Someone might want to check if what I write about Amycus makes sense.
10:25:59 <b_jonas> If you've checked and it seems correct (in particular the transformation of lambda expressions to Amycus) please drop me a line.
10:29:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:B jonas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45479&oldid=45458 * B jonas * (-139)
10:32:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brackit]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45480&oldid=45472 * Blakusl * (+3151)
10:39:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brackit]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45481&oldid=45480 * Blakusl * (+9) /* Objects */
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10:50:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45482&oldid=45478 * B jonas * (+856)
10:55:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45483&oldid=45482 * B jonas * (+15)
10:59:39 <fizzie> izabera: The whole premise of the question is faulty; I don't remember forming the words "MOM", "DAD" or "TRAIN" with alphabet blocks. Sorry, can't help you there.
11:05:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45484&oldid=45483 * B jonas * (+870)
11:05:50 <Jafet> fungot, we propose you to remind this time for a while.
11:05:50 <fungot> Jafet: at least nobody fnord during kent's summary information) and parsing the useful bits for an instruction
11:23:12 <b_jonas> Ok, now I need two more names. A name for the subset of Amycus without rule 2 and 4; and a name for the subset of Amycus where numbers and lists aren't equivalent.
11:23:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45485&oldid=45484 * B jonas * (+10)
11:26:08 <b_jonas> Maybe Amycus Sequentius for the former, and Amycus Bebryx for the latter.
11:33:21 <b_jonas> or I could call the latter Amycus Severus, because it's strictly typed
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11:37:05 <b_jonas> and Amycus Sequenti for the first
11:37:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45486&oldid=45485 * B jonas * (+123)
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11:51:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus Severus]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45487 * B jonas * (+3284) Created page with "'''Amycus Severus''' is a Turing-equivalent functional programming language that is a restricted variant of [[Amycus]] by [[David Madore]]. == Definition == Amycus Severus ha..."
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12:58:30 <b_jonas> ARGH I HAVE A BUG IN MY DESCRIPTION
12:58:36 <b_jonas> I know how to fix it, but it takes some time.
13:00:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45488&oldid=45486 * B jonas * (+116)
13:02:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus Severus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45489&oldid=45487 * B jonas * (-58)
13:03:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45490&oldid=45488 * B jonas * (+26)
13:21:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45491&oldid=45466 * SilverWingedSeraph * (-1) Fix typos.
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13:27:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45492&oldid=45491 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+5) Fix vertical bar not being shown.
13:30:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45493&oldid=45492 * SilverWingedSeraph * (-3) Fix conflict in bitshift left and sum (master:eecd157)
13:30:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45494&oldid=45493 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+0) Fix cum. add. program to work with new addition symbol
13:31:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45495&oldid=45494 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+0)
13:39:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45496&oldid=45495 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+28)
13:47:52 <b_jonas> OH! also, I'm completely wrong
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13:47:58 <b_jonas> you can't even nth a tuple in Amycus
13:48:03 <b_jonas> at least not in the obvious way
13:48:20 <b_jonas> I think you need the eval rule for it
14:30:01 <b_jonas> it's more complicated to describe properly than I thought
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14:34:45 <FireFly> Hyperamycus or Hyperamicus? the Amycus article links to both; one is a red link
14:41:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45497&oldid=45490 * B jonas * (+2185) fix description of how to transform lambda expressions (tbc)
14:42:54 <int-e> @tell boily would the translated chicken be moved to the other side of the road?
14:47:13 <fizzie> "If you wish to join the ?GREAT ILLUMINATI WORLD WIDE?AND BECOME RICH, AND HAVE FAME IN LIFE Contact Us via email: illuminaticonfraternity@aol.com for more information"
14:47:19 <fizzie> How the mighty have fallen.
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15:34:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45498&oldid=45497 * B jonas * (+3805)
15:35:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45499&oldid=45498 * B jonas * (+0)
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15:36:20 <Taneb> sic transit gloria mundi
15:36:44 <b_jonas> should be much better, though still needs minor fixes from me, and then finding the errors by you
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15:43:47 * oerjan is now using a rented laptop while his own is on service
15:44:10 <oerjan> i see i've got a mail that they found a hard disk sector error
15:45:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45500&oldid=45499 * B jonas * (+64)
15:46:14 <oerjan> which is good news: the warranty should cover it; bad news: according to what was said at the shop, it might then take an extra week.
15:46:41 <b_jonas> oerjan: do you understand enough about combinator calculus to know that version with B and C and whatever else as base instead of S? If so, maybe you can tell why rule 0 isn't needed for Amycus.
15:47:05 <oerjan> i haven't looked at those rule 0 etc. things.
15:47:13 <b_jonas> Also, if any of you want to read my writeup about Amycus to tell where I'm writing nonsense, feel free.
15:47:25 <oerjan> but it's BCKW, isn't it
15:47:36 <b_jonas> I think there's more than one base
15:47:44 <oerjan> W f x = f x x, if my recall is right
15:47:47 <b_jonas> I'll have to look it up in the bird book
15:48:09 <b_jonas> B is like B x y z = x (y z) if I understand right
15:48:54 <oerjan> C x y z = x z y, i think
15:49:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45501&oldid=45500 * B jonas * (+4)
15:50:03 <b_jonas> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B,C,K,W_system
15:50:16 <oerjan> each of B and C is restricting one of the arguments of S to not being applied to z
15:51:38 * oerjan was worried for a moment when the rented laptop asked for an admin password (which i don't have) to run the putty installer. fortunately just copying putty.exe worked instead.
15:53:30 * oerjan is giving Edge a second chance since he's on a laptop that doesn't contain any of his IE settings anyway.
15:53:50 <oerjan> they seem to have added some tooltips.
15:57:03 <b_jonas> We probably hvae to figure this out fast (in a day or two), because if we don't, then knowing David, he might come up with a ten page long essay clearly explaining the answer, with a detailed introdcution to BCKW calculus to laymen.
15:58:35 <b_jonas> And if he doesn't, then ais523 will give an answer in a few weeks.
15:58:45 <oerjan> it doesn't matter, it will be in french anyway
15:59:11 <b_jonas> oerjan: no, when I ask questions in English, David usually answers in English.
16:00:16 <b_jonas> If I understand correctly, David Madore is native bilingual French and English, and also a polyglot who cares about lots of other languages.
16:02:06 <b_jonas> Mind you, if ais523 answers it, then the answer will be a four line solution with a minimal translation from BCKW or some such thing to Amycus-Sequenti without rule 0, not a detailed essay of the background.
16:05:11 <oerjan> um have you ever seen ais523 write
16:05:57 <b_jonas> oerjan: yeah, probably not really that dense
16:06:04 <oerjan> this laptop has too coarse brightness settings :(
16:06:16 <b_jonas> I keep having that problem with the volume setting on everything
16:06:34 <b_jonas> why can't there be five volume buttons, for fast increase, fast decrease, fine increase, fine decrease, mute?
16:07:19 <b_jonas> (where if you press mute, then press mute again, then it unmutes to the previous level, but if you instead mute then press increase then it increases starting from zero)
16:08:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45502&oldid=45501 * B jonas * (+62)
16:10:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus Severus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45503&oldid=45489 * B jonas * (+12)
16:16:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hyperamicus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45504&oldid=45476 * B jonas * (+124) /* Notes */
16:16:52 <FireFly> You know, "increase-when-muted is increase-from-zero" is a great idea actually...
16:17:53 <b_jonas> FireFly: that behavior already exists in some switches. It's the fine and fast controls that aren't used much, and especially not in sound volume controls.
16:18:28 <b_jonas> I think some television sets increase from zero after mute, and the dimmer light switche in my room also does that.
16:19:29 <b_jonas> I think some of the volume and brightness controls are deliberately restricted from below so they don't have to solve dumb customer service problems like "the monitor doesn't work" => "turn on the brightness".
16:19:45 <Jafet> Bah, most people only need two buttons: increase sound power and decrease sound power.
16:20:31 <FireFly> A good knob/wheel would cater for both purposes I think
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16:22:12 <b_jonas> Jafet: no, I need a full turing-complete perl scriptable interface for volume control with a real keyboard and large monitor.
16:22:17 <FireFly> with increase/decrease buttons I find it to take a while to get used to how much a single press affects the current level
16:22:55 <Jafet> (there is also software where the increase is linear, instead of exponential)
16:25:06 <b_jonas> Ok, I'll probably have to look this up in the bird book to understand how this BC stuff works, AND try to figure it out if I can do abstraction elimination without rule 0 that way.
16:26:21 <b_jonas> If I fail, I'll have to wait for David or ais523
16:29:29 <b_jonas> I might also have to implement this transformation stuff, plus write some sample programs, to verify my arguments.
16:33:17 <Taneb> I was tapping on the num pad and my hand was further right than I thought
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16:38:13 <b_jonas> Maybe it's possible to directly transform S and K to Amycus somehow, in some representation.
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16:43:51 <b_jonas> Or maybe it's better to transform B, C, K, W directly?
16:44:39 <b_jonas> or more, (Bxy), (Cx), (Kx), (Wx) or something like that, whatever is enough for the abstraction elimination
16:45:03 <b_jonas> I'll need to read how the abstraction elimination to BCKW works
16:47:05 <b_jonas> let me think. if you don't use rule 2, then rule 5 is the only way to build a new tuple. how can we get that tuple out of it apart from by <5, <0>: r>?
16:48:02 <b_jonas> the rule is E(<5, q, p1, …, pn>, x) = E(q, <E(p1, x), …, E(pn, x)>)
16:48:53 <b_jonas> now if head q is 1, the tuple is thrown away; if head q is 2, the tuple is completely dismantled so building it has no point;
16:49:07 <b_jonas> s/head q is 2/head q is 3/
16:49:37 <b_jonas> that leaves head q as 5 or 6. Is 5 enough?
16:50:56 <b_jonas> with head q = 5, you recursively get the same problem, one level inside, I think
16:51:27 <b_jonas> so you can use some nested levels of <5, q: p> but eventually you have to use rule 6 somehow
16:51:55 <b_jonas> but rule 6 isn't ok either, it also immediately dismantles the lits.
16:52:20 <b_jonas> Then I think rules 1, 3, 5, 6 aren't enough for Turing-completeness.
16:52:33 <b_jonas> Rule 4 doesn't help there.
16:52:49 <b_jonas> And rule 2 alone is very unlikely to help, and is almost certainly not what David thouhgt
16:53:12 <b_jonas> This means I'll have to examine and debug that example program David wrote.
16:53:40 <b_jonas> Although that one might also be using rule 0, because it does have an (1 0) in it
16:54:02 <b_jonas> <1, 0> or <5, <0>> are two ways to generate a zero
16:54:51 <b_jonas> But it looks as if he was using the constant 0 only for the arithmetic,.
16:55:08 <b_jonas> Maybe it's a simple program that doesn't demonstrate enough of Turing?
16:55:21 <b_jonas> But it does recursion, so it has to do _something_.
16:55:31 <Melvar> Yesterday someone seemed kind of unnerved when I explained that numeric char escapes in Haskell are variable-length.
16:56:01 <b_jonas> Can the language still be turing-complete if you can't build new tuples? Unlikely.
16:58:07 <b_jonas> no... that can't work even that way
16:58:34 <b_jonas> I think I'm really misunderstanding something about this language, and should check by debugging later.
17:00:26 <b_jonas> Maybe he's building tuples, but never returns them, but only passes them through rule 5 to other rule 5 and eventually to rule 6? But even then, that can't work.
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17:06:41 <int-e> b_jonas: hmm, here's how you might get the identity from recursion and successor: f <a,b,c> |-> if a = b then c else f <a+2,b+1,c+1>; start with f <1,n+1,0>
17:07:12 <int-e> but I have not thought this through to the end.
17:13:53 <oerjan> Melvar: did you tell them about \& ?
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17:15:28 <Melvar> And I tried to explain about \SO and \SOH but he wasn’t interested.
17:15:36 <oerjan> huh this keyboard seems to be set to norwegian but the main markings are swedish.
17:17:40 <Melvar> I had to translate this Show instance for Idris, it looks kinda goofy with the special cases.
17:18:04 <oerjan> @check \x y -> show (x++y :: String) == init (show x) ++ tail (show y)
17:18:07 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 5 tests and 5 shrinks):
17:18:41 <oerjan> me thinks it isn't shrinking hard enough
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17:20:50 <Melvar> By the way, my current Idris project is a thing that will hopefully allow one to type-provide C types into an Idris program.
17:21:06 * oerjan already found enough new annoying quirks in Edge to go back to IE again
17:21:51 <Melvar> If I work really hard at it, it may end up being possible to transport in a C function without ever specifying its type manually.
17:23:36 <oerjan> in the end idris accidentally becomes a type-safe full C compiler
17:30:36 <FireFly> \SO vs. \SOH vs. \SO\&\H seems kind-of silly to me
17:31:10 <FireFly> Although I suppose it makes sense if one really wants named escapes for all ASCII control characters
17:31:35 <mroman> __sync built-ins make no sense except on itaniums, or I'm a mistaken there?
17:31:52 <mroman> all the other architectures have hardware chache protocols that makes them in-sync
17:33:58 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at character 'N'
17:36:07 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:9: numeric escape sequence out of range at character '0'
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17:50:47 <hppavilion[1]> What's the proper term for a map where keys are values and values are keys; essentially, if m[k] = v, m[v] = k
17:51:28 <Melvar> Doesn’t that in general have to be a pair of maps?
17:51:31 <mroman> so a bi-directional map
17:51:46 <mroman> with forward and reverse lookup
17:52:21 <Melvar> Forming a partial bijection?
17:52:26 <mroman> I think they are called bidirectional maps.
17:52:31 <hppavilion[1]> mroman: Not necessarily forward and reverse lookup; every value needs to be unique.
17:52:50 <hppavilion[1]> mroman: OK. I'll stick with that. I've been calling them Symmetric Dicts, but that might be a term for something else.
17:52:53 <mroman> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidirectional_map
17:52:57 <mroman> It's got a WP article.
17:53:24 <hppavilion[1]> I didn't know what to google to find the wiki article xD
17:53:37 <mroman> forward lookup is key -> value, reverse lookup is value -> key
17:53:44 <mroman> at least that's the terminology I use.
17:53:53 <Melvar> Why the hell would one call that a “hash bag” …
17:54:24 <Melvar> A bag is already a thing that could be implemented with hashing.
17:54:42 <mroman> The practice of dangling your hash tables in someone's face.
17:54:45 <hppavilion[1]> mroman: I do use it in a language I'm making called Kastor; you can have maps of the syntax {key<=>value, key2<=>value, etc.}
17:55:18 <hppavilion[1]> And the outer brackets change whether it's ordered or not
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18:13:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symmetry]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45505 * Hppavilion1 * (+2885) Tokens
18:14:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symmetry]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45506&oldid=45505 * Hppavilion1 * (+17) Fixed formatting
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19:07:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45507&oldid=45496 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+15) Fix cumulative addition program to not be quite as broken.
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19:44:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symmetry]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45508&oldid=45506 * Hppavilion1 * (+596) Grammar, functions
19:44:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symmetry]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45509&oldid=45508 * Hppavilion1 * (+1) /* Grammar */ Formatting
19:49:02 <b_jonas> int-e, oerjan, ais523 (if he's here): I was thinking more about the Amycus language, and it's VERY interesting, for all the good and esoteric reasons
19:49:31 <b_jonas> in particular, if you start restricting it by omitting rules from Amycus or from Amycus Severus, you get interesting and different subsets
19:49:36 <b_jonas> I'll try to describe these later
19:49:42 <b_jonas> I found some very interesting things
19:51:10 <b_jonas> Specifically, David writes both that rule 0 is probably not needed and that programming Amycus is somewhat similar to programming unlambda. It turns out that these are true separately, but not together: programming Amycus without rule 0 is no longer similar to programming unlambda
19:51:56 <b_jonas> Omitting rule 0 but keeping rule 2 and 4 still results in a Turing-complete language, but one where you can't just translate lambda expressions the way I did,
19:52:44 <b_jonas> because it can no longer manipulate recursive tree structures (of lists or functions), but can still manipulate numbers (arbitrarily large) enough to get at least something like fractran.
19:53:34 <b_jonas> If you omit rule 0 and 2, you get something that is no longer Turing complete, and it's in a sense exactly primitive recursive,
19:54:11 <b_jonas> That's still true if besides 0 and 2, you omit 4 and make the language Severus.
19:54:38 <b_jonas> I was also thinking of omitting rule 1, which has interesting consequences as you combine with the variants, but I don't completely see all combinations.
19:55:29 <b_jonas> I think omitting any of rule 3, 5, 6 probably immediately reduces the language to not powerful enough, but I'm not quite sure in this.
19:57:41 <b_jonas> You have 9 rules to start from (the 8 numbered rules, plus the Severus variant), can try to keep any subset of them, and examine the resulting language.
19:59:44 <b_jonas> Argh, I messed up, I randomly call the hyper language Hyperamicus and Hyperamycus. It should be the latter.
20:00:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hyperamicus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45510&oldid=45504 * B jonas * (+0) spelling
20:00:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * B jonas * moved [[Hyperamicus]] to [[Hyperamycus]]
20:00:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45513&oldid=45502 * B jonas * (+0) spelling
20:01:09 <b_jonas> I always have trouble with words that contain "y" as a vowel.
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20:11:30 <hppavilion[1]> Now I have to convert every single font for WalText2 to it!
20:11:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brackit]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45514&oldid=45481 * Blakusl * (+943) /* Parsing */
20:20:30 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: what's that?
20:22:19 <izabera> b_jonas: it renders text, duh
20:23:13 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: do you have any new sample output screenshots?
20:24:34 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Yep. I'll get a screenshot when I'm on unfiltered wifi.
20:26:27 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Would you like to see an example of font code?
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20:43:00 <izabera> github's new look is cooool
20:55:32 <izabera> awkward moment when two complete strangers star my random brainstorms on github and i don't even know why
21:06:08 <izabera> https://github.com/blog/2085-a-new-look-for-repositories
21:07:01 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: Ah. Doesn't look too much different to me xD
21:10:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus Severus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45515&oldid=45503 * B jonas * (+375)
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21:15:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45516&oldid=45513 * B jonas * (+446)
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21:16:36 <b_jonas> I'm still editing this stuff
21:16:43 <b_jonas> I have a lot to say, and might not say all of it today
21:16:52 <b_jonas> Amycus proved to be really interesting
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21:38:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45517&oldid=45516 * B jonas * (+326)
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21:57:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brackit]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45518&oldid=45514 * Blakusl * (+2253) /* Input/Output */
21:58:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45519&oldid=45517 * B jonas * (+196)
22:03:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45520&oldid=45519 * B jonas * (-13)
22:03:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus Severus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45521&oldid=45515 * B jonas * (-4)
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22:24:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45522&oldid=45520 * B jonas * (+582)
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23:04:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brackit]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45523&oldid=45518 * Blakusl * (+1113) /* Loops */
23:05:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45524&oldid=45522 * B jonas * (+1845)
23:05:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brackit]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45525&oldid=45523 * Blakusl * (-17) /* Input/Output */
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23:58:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Amycus]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45526&oldid=45524 * B jonas * (+1062)
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