00:02:39 Doesn't mean it's not terrifying 00:04:22 hppavilion[1]: do you have any reading material on creating an esoteric language? 00:04:57 B1ood6od: Not really, we're kind of an obscure community 00:05:13 you might say we are... esoteric 00:05:24 But they're so beautiful. 00:05:31 Creating something brand new is difficult, but creating a new spin on existing (eso-)paradigms is easy 00:05:46 nchambers: No you might not. Well, you might, but it'd be the last thing you'd say. 00:05:56 B1ood6od: They are 00:06:02 hppavilion[1]: :D 00:06:07 And I wish all programmers could explore it 00:06:13 *I* have a dream... 00:06:33 I should write an interactive compiler course 00:06:44 nchambers: Yes. You should. I'd like to write one. 00:06:51 An interactive compiler, not a course. 00:07:17 Well. I mean. I have the option to teach tech stuff at my local library. If I get more into esoteric languages to the point of comprehending, I could very well offer some educational stuff on it. 00:07:17 whats an interactive compiler? 00:09:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:09:53 B1ood6od: You could do that, but esolangs aren't very useful to those who want to learn about tech 00:10:12 You could perhaps offer a separate ~class on "Programming Languages as Art" 00:10:32 But you'd have to be a fairly advanced Esolanger to start evangelizing, far beyond just normal understanding. 00:11:02 nchambers: Oh, you meant a compiler course that's interactive xD 00:11:06 hppavilion[1]: sorry, by tech I meant anything dealing with computers whatsoever. Also, not quite classes but rather educational day things aimed towards teens. 00:11:09 -!- Lord_of_- has quit (Excess Flood). 00:11:11 Not a course on interactive compilers 00:11:16 Ah 00:11:28 The thing is, surrealist programmers are a pretty small niche. 00:11:29 hppavilion[1]: yes :D 00:11:49 There are only about 20-30 of us in an active community, you'll notice. 00:12:02 nchambers: A course on compiler writing or a course on compiler using? 00:12:13 writing 00:12:25 an interactive compiler using course is called your shell :p 00:12:38 I advise you drop everything and immediately start working on it 24/7 until it's done. 00:12:44 nchambers: I assume online? 00:13:52 yeah. if I can actually learn some webdev 00:16:39 nchambers: I could help with the website. What kind of languages will it show compiling? 00:16:49 Will it feature information on Language Design itself? 00:17:05 hppavilion[1]: of course :D... I was thinking of doing a scheme 00:17:14 Oooooh. Scheme. 00:17:47 in python no less 00:17:55 or maybe c++ 00:18:01 nchambers: Excellent. That's the language I do :) 00:18:04 of course, I am learning J... it could be fun to do it in that 00:18:08 Or... c++. That works too. 00:18:12 Don't do it in J xD 00:18:16 :D 00:18:19 (J's a golfing language, right?) 00:18:28 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:18:32 yeah I'll do python 00:18:40 it can certainly be used as a golfing language 00:18:50 its used in buisnesses for tools though 00:19:07 theres a guy in #jsoftware who writes J full time 00:19:09 nchambers: Are you targetting a real-world platform, or are you making your own VM or something? 00:20:06 errmm probably at first like C or something easy to target 00:20:29 then I'll do something on writing a virtual machine and switch the target to that 00:20:30 That works. OR you could make your own high-level assembler. 00:20:47 nchambers: Don't switch it too soon though xD 00:21:08 yeah :D 00:21:30 here you go! target this non existant bytecode! trust me... it works! 00:21:42 I meant to say too late xD 00:22:01 nchambers: I have formulated ~25 different stack (or, well, deque) manipulation instructions. 00:22:21 <\oren\> ただいま 00:22:28 \oren\: Yay! 00:23:26 nchambers: Here's the list (for a language I'm making called Wybe, designed as an embedded language and usable stacky language): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vUGYJP_QO1jm7S7TcQffplZlV0NBQeJsRnGeevbMuMM/edit?usp=sharing 00:23:27 :D 00:23:36 nice :D 00:25:42 <\oren\> I can see you editing 00:25:53 B-) 00:32:03 <\oren\> bah google docs chat is a poor imitation of irc 00:32:15 <\oren\> it doesn't even have fungot 00:32:15 \oren\: of what?! no man, cage is sweet. so sweet. so sweet. so sweet. 00:32:43 ,o0(I like fsbot in #Emacs) 00:32:49 Sorry, could not resist. 00:36:06 <\oren\> .oOｏＯоО　 00:36:12 B-) 00:36:16 Nice ones. 00:37:24 <\oren\> some of them are not o's but о's 00:38:07 -!- boily has joined. 00:38:22 <\oren\> i didn't include any ο's however 00:40:01 <\oren\> おボアリなさい、ご主人様 00:40:10 Ok 00:40:27 Still nice ones 00:41:10 So, per-person question. When working in a fungeoidal language, should the resulting code just... Work? Or should it look good as well? As in, have a shape or something. 00:41:45 <\oren\> I find it hard enough to write a working program 00:43:07 I just feel like my ASCII > Rubik's notation program isn't as pretty as it could be. I'm also the guy who got addicted to TIS-100 and writes in smali when I'm bored. 00:43:25 ヘロレン！えっと…ちょっと怖いんだよ 00:43:54 Unicode rules 00:44:01 UTF8 does, too 00:45:00 Bellood6od! prettiness is tantamount to achieve great fungeoïd programming hth 00:47:33 I think I definitely want to work more with befunge, or similar languages. It's fun. 00:52:45 you can even hunt wumpuses in it! 00:52:58 (wumpus? wumpii? wumpæ?? 00:53:28 nchambers: What should I use for laconic rot? 00:53:40 ("]" is reserved for lists) 00:53:48 -!- ^v^v has quit (Quit: Network ban). 00:54:56 boily: It's easiest to hunt wumpa with a mapole 00:55:10 What's with ^v^v's network ban I wonder... 00:55:16 Or was that a joke? 00:55:26 It must've been a joke that I was too thick to see xD 00:55:28 long history, of which I'm missing many details. 00:55:37 fungot: laconic rot? 00:55:37 boily: be in cahoots with! you guess none the wiser, you board the shuttle. next stop, it's unbecoming electricity, although he gives a small man. but there is a factory there you do. 00:55:49 hppavellon[1]. a mapole does all. 00:56:18 boily: Laconic Rot means the symbolic rot instruction (laconic POP is $) 00:56:30 Rot rotates the top 3 elements, and there are about 12 different variants on it 00:56:42 Some variant of ] might be used 00:56:59 Perhaps I'll make lists [| ... |] 00:57:07 Or maybe you just use [] then cons the values 00:57:21 Yeah, that makes the most sense 00:57:47 coppro: chelloppro. do you like shrimps? 00:59:12 OK, ROT is ], ROTCC is [. Back versions are prefixed with ~, and far versions have a _ on the pronged side of the bracket. 00:59:20 Now I need to figure out the modification for FAR 00:59:32 Then just combine those to make the LONG_FAR ones 01:06:53 ^v: Do you know who ^v^v was? 01:12:30 Well. ?->;-> is a command. 01:12:36 <\oren\> szszszszszszszszszszszszszszszszszszszszszszszszszszszszsz 01:13:26 \oren\: Dafuq? 01:14:03 <\oren\> I like how zszszszszszsz looks like a pattern in my font 01:14:17 helloily 01:14:51 quinthellopia! 01:16:42 \oren\: The new s or the old s? Because it looks fukin awesome with the old s 01:16:56 <\oren\> the new s and the nes z 01:16:59 I hearby name that the "\oren\ curve" 01:17:04 Ah 01:17:14 \oren\: The old s looks better. 01:17:47 In this scenario 01:18:23 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/bbs 01:19:35 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:23:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:25:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:29:21 I've decided on :-> for Registering Event Handlers 01:29:47 Though it could easily be confused with something like @-> (WHILE) when it's really more similar to DEF. 01:30:17 (which is represented as :=, CODEF as :=') 01:33:09 \oren\: How good is your Haskell, or more specifically, GHCi? 01:33:42 I was wondering if there's a way to search the currently-available libraries for things with a certain type 01:35:00 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 01:38:43 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: you can use hoogle 01:38:55 \oren\: Oh right! Hoogle! 01:39:15 I don't think I need it right now, but I'll attempt and most likely fail to remember that! 01:47:41 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett). 01:47:58 -!- Warrigal has joined. 01:49:03 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to tswett. 01:49:17 tswarrigellott! 01:49:44 Ahoily. 01:49:56 THERE we go! 01:50:02 Thank you, tswett. Thank you. 01:50:33 No hpproblion[1]. 01:51:34 @mages-loud 01:51:34 Unknown command, try @list 01:51:48 @msages-loud 01:51:48 oerjan said 7h 26m 12s ago: The ordinal numbers are keeping me awake. <-- try attaching them to sheep hth 01:51:48 oerjan said 7h 19m 58s ago: i'm not convinced your Z(a,b) defines an ordinal number for a > 0. it seems to me that Z(0,b) = b for any infinite ordinal b, so there _are_ no larger ordinals for a > 0 to choose from. 01:51:48 oerjan said 7h 15m 4s ago: hm wait, Z(0,b) = b+1. 01:51:48 oerjan said 6h 59m 38s ago: oh hm i see, when you fixed it to "not equal to" it makes more sense. because Z(0,...) leaves out all the limit ordinals, so Z(1,...) gets some of those. 01:51:48 oerjan said 6h 58m ago: except i fail to see how there's anything left for Z(2,...). 01:51:50 oerjan said 6h 55m 9s ago: i really should learn not to @tell until i've read through the whole log discussion... 01:52:51 xD 01:57:26 @ask oerjan @tell me more @tell me more ♪ 01:57:27 Consider it noted. 01:58:01 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hurricane996 * New user account 01:58:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:07:08 @tell i'll tell u 02:07:08 Consider it noted. 02:08:49 who's i'll? and is it a valid IRC nick? 02:10:21 [wiki] [[Talk:Fob]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45774 * SuperJedi224 * (+152) Created page with "What python version should the interpretrer be run in? ~~~~" 02:11:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:11:51 -!- B1ood6od has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:11:51 -!- bb010g has joined. 02:22:06 [wiki] [[Bfstack]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45775 * Hurricane996 * (+441) Created page with "BFStack is an esoteric brainfuck derivative. It is stack based instead. The instructions are almost the same, but changed to be stack based. ">" Pushes 0 onto the stack "<" ..." 02:22:07 [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45776&oldid=45267 * SuperJedi224 * (+29) 02:24:32 [wiki] [[Talk:Fob]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45777&oldid=45774 * SuperJedi224 * (+63) 02:25:25 [wiki] [[Microscript II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45778&oldid=45302 * SuperJedi224 * (+94) 02:30:41 -!- ^^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:31:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: THIRD CHICKEN). 02:31:28 <^v> hppavilion[1], i think ^v^v is me? 02:31:35 <^v> not sure 02:31:50 <^v> usually my nick is just ^v, v^ and ^^v 02:35:05 <^v> but wait, wouldnt brainfuck be stack based anyway? 02:35:11 <^v> just a vertical tape 02:35:30 <^v> ohh i see 02:59:31 -!- andrew has joined. 03:20:54 @tell '' '' 03:20:54 Consider it noted. 03:21:19 That is not a valid nick. 03:21:36 @metar KGRR 03:21:36 KGRR 040253Z 24013G28KT 200V280 9SM OVC016 03/00 A3033 RMK AO2 PK WND 30028/0246 SLP277 T00330000 53006 03:21:57 I barely know what any of that means. 03:22:16 Overcast. 03:22:27 Yeah, that's pretty much it. 03:29:02 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:31:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:35:20 What kinds of higher-order functions are there? (Efficiency ones and ones that work on infinite lists are redundant) 03:35:31 MAP, APPLY, FILTER, REDUCE, FOLD 03:42:19 Lots and lots and lots. 03:42:50 Many people believe that the most important concept in mathematics is the function. 03:49:12 -!- singingb1yo has joined. 04:02:54 hppavilion[1]: higher order functions are everywhere! 04:03:11 augur: I was going for the common ones 04:03:17 The general ones of common use 04:04:03 sortWith is a good one 04:04:47 zipWith too 04:05:16 and of course bind (>>=) 04:05:31 you could maybe consider things like (<*>) to be higher order 04:10:59 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:11:33 <\oren\> a for loop is a higher order function 04:12:03 <\oren\> (with unorthodox syntax) 04:12:47 possible. depends on how you want to view it :) 04:12:53 augur: Keep in mind, I don't actually know that much Haskell. 04:13:07 I just tried to hit tab to autocomplete the word "haskell" xD 04:13:16 hppavilion[1]: both are related to function application, but with fancier functions 04:13:20 My brain cannot tell the difference between Programming languages and People 04:13:31 augur: That's what I suspected 04:15:43 augur: I'm just asking what I need to implement for Functional Programming (the style, not the paradigm) in a language I'm making. 04:16:31 A usable-but-stacky language. 04:16:46 the best way is to not think of functions as something special 04:18:06 augur: I don't 04:18:21 <^v> im bored, is it a good idea to learn haskell 04:18:23 I never have. I'm just asking what higher-order functions I should include. 04:18:25 well then, you dont need to worry about what sorts of functions to implement :) 04:18:27 ^v: yes! 04:18:27 ^v: Yes. 04:18:36 hppavilion[1]: dont include any 04:18:38 <^v> ive basically mastered C,C++, and lua 04:19:05 augur: They need not be builtin, but they'll probably be in the standard library 04:19:16 I probably should include /some/ 04:19:25 ^v: Learn ASM 04:19:30 <^v> im thinking of learning arm/thumb (since i might want to do be a firmware developer) 04:19:36 And then program in it exclusively. 04:19:52 <^v> hppavilion[1], haha ive put more time into esolangs than i would like 04:20:02 <^v> atleast 100 hours of brainfuck 04:20:06 Well, now I've got to go 04:20:07 Wow 04:20:15 <^v> and all my friends look at me like im fucking insane 04:20:31 hppavilion[1]: there's no such thing as ASM :) 04:20:44 but ^v could definitely learn MIPS assembly! 04:21:05 <^v> augur, i have an interest in arm/thumb specifically because vex robots run on it 04:21:16 ^v: arm would probably be good for getting jobs 04:21:26 vex robots huh 04:21:33 whats a vex robot 04:21:42 <^v> i am on a vex roboitcs team 04:21:59 <^v> vex is like first robotics little brother 04:23:14 <^v> augur, cant decide between low level and high level for jobs 04:23:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:23:36 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:23:36 <^v> im 16 and homeschooled so its hard to intern xD 04:26:06 ^v: why decide! 04:28:37 <^v> because when applying you usually have to make the choice 04:30:03 <^v> low level C/asm firmware for various devices or high level for usually computer/phone applications 04:30:29 sure, when applying someone. but when STUDYING you can do whatever you want! 04:30:45 <^v> fair enough 04:31:01 the more you study, the more you can apply to 04:33:02 <^v> from what ive seen, interns are basically useless 04:33:46 <^v> i have a friend that did better than most of his co-workers when he interned, he got an offer to drop out and join for 60k/yr 04:33:59 <^v> and a 3k bonus at the end 04:39:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:47:24 -!- ^v^v has joined. 04:54:55 -!- B1ood6od has joined. 04:55:00 <^v> whaaaaa 04:55:15 <^v> i dont know who ^v^v is 04:55:31 <^v^v> oh nevermind my desktop reconnected 05:01:59 -!- B1ood6od has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:04:33 -!- B1ood6od has joined. 05:46:07 * Sgeo once mirrored a site that was on Geocities and contacted the person. Turns out they had already migrated off of it 05:46:20 Um. I may have been significantly scrolled up 06:19:56 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:20:28 -!- TodPunk has joined. 06:53:39 <^v^v> Sgeo, geocities 06:53:45 <^v^v> that is a name i have not heared in a long time.. 06:54:02 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:01:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:01:31 ^v: Is a vex robot at all related to the similarly-named type of robot? 07:02:31 Namely, the ex-robot: Robots that have had their brains uploaded to a computer and are now disembodied. 07:04:26 07:04:32 `unidecode 07:04:36 <^v> no i mean real moving robots xD 07:04:45 U+FFFF - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef bf bf UTF-16BE: ffff Decimal: \ () \ Uppercase: U+FFFF \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) 07:04:51 ^v: Oh, so sex robots then? 07:05:01 xD 07:05:15 <^v> hahaha 07:05:24 <^v> heres a pic of the last one i built http://i.imgur.com/ImJR7a4.jpg 07:06:17 But where's the... 07:06:40 <^v> http://i.imgur.com/Vmz2SgG.jpg 07:06:44 <^v> it lifts up 07:06:57 <^v> and a wall of awards in the background xD 07:07:26 I still don't see where you put your... nevermind 07:07:36 <^v> :P 07:07:46 <^v> sorry to dissapoint, i dont build sex robots 07:07:51 Weirdo. 07:08:04 <^v> it has a claw so i guess it could hold a fleshlight or something xD 07:08:51 Fair enough 07:33:42 -!- izabera has changed nick to izabera_. 07:35:00 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:37:37 I think I'm going to call my ASM scarecrow 07:37:47 Because it's really just strawman assembly xD 07:41:07 Wait, no, I already named it Thorn# 07:42:14 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:43:10 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:43:41 -!- aloril__ has joined. 07:46:15 -!- aloril_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:51:13 -!- aloril_ has joined. 07:53:55 -!- aloril__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:55:13 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: bbl). 08:03:22 <^v> std::map,unsigned char*>,unsigned char*> 08:04:00 <^v> fuck your convetions ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 08:05:30 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.1 - http://znc.in). 08:10:01 -!- FireFly has joined. 08:12:29 Now I want to make a Captain Forever: Remix-like games 08:12:40 s/s// 08:12:55 With some programming to control your ship 08:13:47 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to Screen. 08:13:52 -!- Screen has changed nick to Elronnd. 08:13:59 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to BlueScreenOfDeat. 08:14:28 -!- BlueScreenOfDeat has changed nick to DeathDisplayingS. 08:14:36 -!- DeathDisplayingS has changed nick to DeathDisplayer. 08:15:50 -!- B1ood6od has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:16:59 -!- DeathDisplayer has changed nick to Elronnd. 08:19:33 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to DeathDisplayer. 08:19:49 -!- DeathDisplayer has changed nick to Elronnd. 08:21:10 Captain a-pretty-long-fucking-time 08:23:28 <^v> hppavilion[1], im actually developing a captain forever like sandbox game 08:23:47 ^v: Cool. As in, shipbuilding? 08:23:55 Not sure what the original Captain Forever was like 08:23:55 <^v> and yes, it has computers 08:23:59 Yay! 08:24:02 What language? 08:24:17 <^v> custom assembly 08:24:20 Cool 08:24:29 I mean what're you developing it in though 08:24:31 <^v> we were thinking of using arm instead 08:24:41 <^v> but qemu is pretty bulky 08:24:46 <^v> hppavilion[1], C++/Lua 08:24:56 Ah, is this a company project of some sort? 08:25:15 <^v> will probably turn into a company at some point 08:25:20 Ah 08:25:27 <^v> we are verry skilled 08:25:27 So shipbuilding is a thing? 08:25:31 <^v> yep 08:25:52 Cool 08:26:08 <^v> physics, destruction, etc 08:26:26 -!- singingb1yo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:26:32 Awesome 08:26:40 <^v> i like developing on the GPU 08:27:30 <^v> a lot of things you do seem counter intuitive when creating highly parallel code but actually are more efficient 08:28:04 <^v> we are so used to programming on the CPU where memory access between threads is relatively cheap 08:30:34 ^v: I don't even do C, so I don't know what you're talking about with memory access between threads 08:30:44 Though I assume it has something to do with accessing memory. Between threads. 08:31:00 <^v> has more to do with CPU architecture 08:35:47 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:36:26 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:43:15 -!- keiber has joined. 08:44:41 hola 08:45:39 -!- keiber has left. 08:52:19 Procedurally Generated spaceships will be fun for my little CF 09:19:23 oh! age old bug I reported is now fixed! yay! 09:38:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:52:44 -!- mroman has joined. 09:52:51 b_jonas: Turns out GOT Hijacking is a thing. 09:52:54 although a rarer thing. 09:58:27 mroman: um what? 10:01:45 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 10:03:39 I don't really get how PLT/GOT works though 10:03:53 0x8048320 :jmp DWORD PTR ds:0x8049688 10:03:59 is that a memory indirect jump thing? 10:04:23 i.e. jmp to whatever is at address 0x8049688 but don't jump to actual address 0x8049688 10:05:46 actually with at&t its jmp *0x8049688 10:05:52 but I can't find anything about what that star means 10:06:49 I saw a nice post explaining PLT/GOT a while ago, let me see if I can find it.. 10:07:28 I think the GOT is updated once you called the function for the first time 10:07:40 because that's in fact a memory indirect jmup 10:07:51 so the target address is behind 0x8049688 10:08:00 but that just contains a reference back to the PLT for now 10:08:10 https://www.technovelty.org/linux/plt-and-got-the-key-to-code-sharing-and-dynamic-libraries.html this one 10:08:10 which probably calls the runtime resolver 10:09:52 Right, there's a trampoline immediately followed by the code that patches the table or something like that 10:10:05 yeah the address is updated after the first call 10:10:07 ok 10:10:22 after the function has been called once, you can look up the concrete address of the library function 10:10:28 in the GOT, I believe? 10:10:40 GOT hijacking overwrites entries in the GOT so for example if you can gain control over a pointer where some data is written to 10:10:45 you can redirect printf to system 10:10:53 heh 10:11:02 FireFly: yes, after it has been called once the actual address will be written to the GOT 10:11:51 Let me just blog about that in my blog so I don't forget about it later :D 10:11:53 I used the address from the GOT as a base address to locate execve for a CTF task 10:34:25 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:34:53 Done. 10:35:12 Although with ASLR and PIE I think pretty much all of the stuff doesn't work anymore 10:35:17 ASLR alone can be circumvented 10:35:24 but I haven't heard anything about dealing with PIE 10:39:30 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mego * New user account 10:40:07 hm 10:40:10 0x80000703 <+23>:call 0xb7eaac20 10:40:15 with PIE it doesn't use the PLT 10:43:15 e8 fc ff ff ff 10:43:17 wtf 10:43:21 at what point is this resolved? 10:44:00 this means loadtime stuff is going on 10:44:08 the code is patched at load time with the actual addresses? 10:54:07 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:08:56 QUESTION: 11:09:12 can the wiki load a wikitable from an external source? 11:22:37 I sincerely hope not. 11:22:53 unless you mean something like a File uploaded to the wiki? 11:23:04 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:34:26 -!- boily has joined. 12:00:53 -!- TieSoul has joined. 12:06:58 @massages-loud 12:06:58 quintopia said 9h 29m 6s ago: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-0NVE9E8UJiT0loSFZkdmktRFU/view?usp=docslist_api 12:10:23 -!- aloril_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:13:17 -!- aloril has joined. 12:13:25 -!- glowcoil has quit. 12:13:35 -!- glowcoil has joined. 12:33:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: STURDY CHICKEN). 12:45:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:52:22 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:55:27 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to AwaySoul. 12:57:13 -!- lleu has joined. 12:57:14 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 12:57:14 -!- lleu has joined. 13:26:59 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:32:29 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk). 13:42:05 -!- lleu has joined. 13:42:06 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 13:42:06 -!- lleu has joined. 13:59:16 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 14:02:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:02:51 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:02:57 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 14:07:14 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:33:40 this new disk drive has a ridiculously annoying parking sound ;_; 14:33:58 @messages- 14:33:58 boily asked 12h 36m 31s ago: @tell me more @tell me more ♪ 14:34:07 @ask boily Never! 14:34:08 Consider it noted. 14:37:23 -!- jaboja has joined. 14:49:53 Wow 14:49:59 In 6 hours I'm going to be in London 14:51:05 is it the first time 14:51:52 No, but it'll be the first time on my own 14:52:09 First time I've travelled further south than Leeds without a grown-up 14:52:49 ah 14:55:31 fizzie, you're in London, right? Do you know anywhere nice and not too expensive I can get breakfast near King's Cross or Imperial College/ 15:02:41 I'm in London, but I don't really know London, and my "hoods" are mostly around Victoria and southwest from there. 15:02:51 it's not a clicking sum, but a humming one, as if actually hearing the disk winding down... 15:02:54 *sound 15:03:15 Well, I guess Imperial College is hereabouts, actually. At least somewhat. 15:03:26 On the third hand, I just eat the free food here at work. 15:19:43 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 15:21:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Going insane). 15:21:26 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:21:38 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 15:22:13 whoa whoa whoa 15:22:16 fizzie has "hoods"? 15:26:27 I don't know what the word means, really. I just meant "places I'm customarily near to". 15:27:17 I think of them as modes in a probabilistic model of my location. 15:31:42 Taneb: There's a cat cafe we're going to have breakfast at in London, but we haven't been there yet, so I don't know if it's nice -- plus it's fully booked for pretty long time in advance, and probably a bit on the expensive side (extra entrace fee to cover the cats, for example), so this is probably not a useful tip for you. 15:32:03 -!- Taneb has changed nick to nvd. 15:33:16 (I've just been feeling a bit deficient in the cat department, and some other people have said it was a nice place.) 15:34:45 -!- nvd has changed nick to Taneb. 15:35:16 Yeah, I'd rather avoid booking a long time in advance for breakfast tomorrow 15:36:23 -!- AwaySoul has changed nick to TieSoul. 15:39:14 -!- andrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:46:58 -!- Welo has joined. 15:59:02 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 16:00:52 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:01:27 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 16:02:14 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 16:06:35 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:27:12 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:42:52 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 17:08:31 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:16:35 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:29:36 -!- mihow has joined. 17:32:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 17:39:56 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:40:10 -!- spiette has joined. 17:46:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:59:45 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 18:02:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:07:47 Is there a difference between `reduce` in Python and the `fold`s in Haskell? 18:09:43 conceptually, not much, nope 18:11:35 copumpkin: According to F#, fold takes an initial value whereas reduce just starts with the 0th element in hte list. 18:11:47 foldl1 is the haskell equivalent 18:11:57 :t foldl1 18:11:58 Foldable t => (a -> a -> a) -> t a -> a 18:19:59 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:20:27 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:22:27 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 18:26:12 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 18:26:33 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 18:30:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:36:35 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:08:13 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:13:50 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:18:17 [wiki] [[Bubblegum]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45779&oldid=45204 * Quintopia * (+274) explanation of reasoning behind the exceptional behavior of this example program 19:27:14 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:27:22 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 19:32:07 -!- jaboja has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:32:44 -!- jaboja has joined. 19:36:31 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:37:33 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:38:01 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:39:19 [wiki] [[Small]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45780&oldid=45675 * 73.234.127.46 * (+104360) 19:46:20 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:47:32 wtf... 19:52:02 that was an interesting read 19:54:40 https://github.com/makeamericagreatagain the author is donald trump from 1970 19:56:34 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:09:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:44:33 -!- ^v has joined. 20:55:00 -!- izabera has joined. 21:01:02 hizabera 21:03:21 -!- izabera_ has quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in). 21:09:21 hppavhilion 21:09:48 :) 21:12:13 -!- rdococ has joined. 21:25:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:32:48 -!- atrapado has joined. 21:37:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:42:59 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:44:09 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 21:46:09 -!- Newyorkadam has joined. 21:47:22 Hi, I’m trying to print out a 178-character string in brainfuck. this wouldn’t be a problem except I’m limited to using 270 characters of brainfuck. I was considering compressing the 178 char string; do you guys have any other ideas? 21:49:53 Newyorkadam: Why are you limited? 21:50:07 hppavilion[1]: just a character limit for the service I’m using 21:50:10 Is it for a school assignment? Because that'd be SO FUCKING COOL 21:50:11 Ah 21:50:12 OK 21:50:14 it’s not haha 21:50:18 but it is related, it’s for a senior quote 21:50:19 :,( 21:50:22 Ah 21:50:26 That works 21:50:40 that may be asking too much (cheating aside; some brainfuck implementations actually allow accessing the code as data...) 21:51:14 Newyorkadam: Brainfuck gets repetitive, so you could use _n syntax 21:51:27 (where for +++++++++, for example, you just do +9 21:51:28 ) 21:51:35 Not as perfect, but it'd work 21:55:40 You could give the bf_textgen program a go, although 178 to 270 might be too much to ask, depending on the string. 21:55:50 fizzie: 178 chars 21:55:59 fizzie: I think he should use _n syntax 21:56:20 Well, I mean, the syntax is not part of brainfuck. 21:57:02 If the 270 character result needs to be a program a brainfuck interpreter can read, putting numbers in doesn't really help, since they get ignored. 21:57:09 If it's meant for humans, sure. 21:57:53 (I don't know what a "senior quote" is -- it sounds a bit more human-oriented.) 21:59:35 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:59:51 fizzie: It's a quote that you put in the yearbook in your last year of high school, I believe 21:59:58 hppavilion[1]: sorry, I went afk 22:00:03 It's fine 22:00:43 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:01:13 fizzie: it goes in a yearbook under your name. people put inspirational, funny quotes 22:01:43 Well, I seem to be in London 22:01:46 so “Hello world!” can be done in 107 22:01:57 which is definitely impressive 22:02:39 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:03:23 I'm sure it can be done in less. bf_textgen spit out 105 characters for me. 22:04:06 fizzie: link? couldn’t find it 22:04:16 fizzie: https://copy.sh/brainfuck/text.html? 22:05:10 It's a Java thing, it's floating around the webs somewhere. 22:05:23 https://github.com/graue/esofiles/blob/master/brainfuck/util/textgen.java 22:05:39 (The 105 was without the newline.) 22:05:48 -[------->+<]>.-[->++++<]>.[->++<]>+.++++++++++++.-----[->++++<]>.>-[--->+<]>-.------------.---.-[-->+<]>--.---[->+++<]>.+[---->+++<]>-.+++++++++++.++++++.+++.--.+[--->+<]>++++.+++[->++<]>.-.----.>-[--->+<]>---.--[----->++<]>.++++++[->++<]>+.++++++++++++.+[--->+<]>++.---[->+++<]>.-----.--[->++++<]>+.++++++++.+++++++++++.------------. 22:05:54 <^v> hppavilion[1], +9 is called run-length encoding 22:05:59 thanks, will try 22:06:06 ^v: Ah, right 22:06:16 <^v> run-length encoding is a lazy way to do brainfuck 22:07:09 fizzie: mine got 104? 22:07:13 <^v> but sometimes you dont have 2 spaces to clobber 22:07:22 Newyorkadam: It's non-deterministic, you can get lucky. 22:07:35 <^v> so -[------->+<]> like encodings arent an option in those cases 22:07:52 I don't think it will get you down to 270 for a 178-character string, though -- given the fixed structure of the output, it has an absolute lower bound of N+k for N-character output, where k is a smallish constant. 22:08:08 (The .s are outside a loop, so it will always contain at least N .s) 22:08:19 the best I’m getting with my string right now is 9925 :S 22:08:40 fizzie: maybe if I compressed the string? 22:09:29 Sounds a bit far-fetched still, but you can always try. 22:09:54 fizzie: got a recommendation for any compressor? 22:10:37 fizzie: Non-deterministic? Really? 22:10:50 hppavilion[1]: textgen.java uses a genetic-programming-inspired algorithm, so yes. 22:11:11 hppavilion[1]: Well, I mean, "non-deterministic" in the usual sense of using a PRNG seeded with something. 22:11:14 <^v> Newyorkadam, a 160% size ratio when encoding brainfuck is pretty much impossible 22:11:25 Ah 22:11:45 <^v> so reducing the size of the text is your only viable option 22:11:48 ^v: even with compressing the string? 22:11:49 yeah 22:11:54 was just wondering the best way to do that 22:11:58 got any suggestions? 22:12:00 Again, use RLE Newyorkadam. In hex. 22:12:14 For EXTRA programmeriness 22:12:35 <^v> hppavilion[1], hex RLE would give you a ratio of 300% 22:12:52 ^v: I was afraid that'd happen 22:12:52 <^v> Newyorkadam, depends on the text obviously 22:13:07 here’s the string: "\"Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject, so you know you are getting the best possible information.\" — Michael Scott" 22:13:14 obviously the \” is a quotation 22:13:30 <^v> yeah 22:13:30 Newyorkadam: Could you pastebin the quote then encode the URL in BF? 22:13:35 That'd be extra-programmery. 22:13:49 And then RLE the string in hex, of course. 22:13:57 was thinking that, but if I’m looking at my yearbook in 50 years I don’t think the link will still be up 22:14:29 At the very least, drop the UTF-8 — from it. 22:14:39 yeah that can just be a “-“ 22:15:21 <^v> i hate how macs replace " with “ and - with — 22:15:23 wow! dropping the — to a - got me from 9925 to 1515 lol 22:15:57 <^v> Newyorkadam, ofc, because every character was forced to be utf8 22:16:20 The sort of output generated by a compressor isn't generally very easy to produce from a brainfuck program. You might have better luck trying to generate the string with brainfuck, and then come up with the most compact way of encoding the brainfuck code. If you don't mind it being not so readable, just feed the *brainfuck* through some suitable general-purpose compression algorithm, then ... 22:16:26 ... base64 that for survival. 22:17:01 I got 1225 out of textgen.java with "-t 6" -- that's the number of "terms", for long quotations having more than the default (4) can be beneficial. 22:17:16 what if you do something like -t 100? 22:17:35 running it myself 22:17:55 Not going to be very helpful, I think. There's diminishing returns, plus extra constant cost for terms. 22:18:15 it’s definitely an interesting program 22:18:17 *problem 22:18:19 well program too haha 22:18:30 <^v> does textgen have multiple layered loops? 22:18:55 ^v: No, it has a pretty simple structure, very definitely non-optimal. 22:19:10 Newyorkadam: Put it in a .tar.gz and host it on your own server. Then, bit.ly the sucker. 22:19:19 Assuming bit.ly sticks around, that should work 22:19:32 <^v> i was thinking if you wanted to implement something like that it would be beneficial to use the GPU 22:19:35 (Come to think of it, the .tar.gz is unnecessary) 22:19:35 hppavilion[1]: I don’t think my server will be up permanatly though 22:19:45 Newyorkadam: Then that's your own damn fault xD 22:19:54 :’( :P 22:19:59 It's 400 characters for a simple textgen -t 6 + bzip2 -c -9 + base64. Might be better to add something brainfuck-specific to the mix. 22:20:11 fizzie: 400 is really good 22:20:14 fizzie: 8 characters. 3 bits/character. 22:20:45 Newyorkadam: You could encode it in BitSwitcher (or whatever it's called) and encode it as pairs of 2 bits. Though I think that language has more commands in it. 22:20:54 fizzie: weird, 6 got me higher (2200) 22:21:18 -!- invitada- has joined. 22:21:43