00:06:45 You know, I think a being which does *not* exist is more perfect than one which does. 00:07:41 After all, the most perfect situation is a situation in which nothing is necessary. If the existence of a being is necessary, that being is a mark of imperfection. 00:08:17 God, being perfect in all ways, is certainly not a mark of imperfection. 00:08:51 The ontological argument got it backwards. 00:09:12 * oerjan sidles away from the puffs of logic 00:09:32 * tswett puff puff puff 00:11:40 <\oren\> well you've shown that the ontological argument is based on a matter of opinion about what perfection is 00:12:15 By the way, let me monologue about my indentation philosophy. 00:13:03 A piece of an expression generally consists of an opening delimiter and/or a closing delimiter and/or middle delimiters, along with inner contents. 00:13:29 The rule is pretty simple. 00:14:02 If the expression-piece is split across multiple lines, then all delimiters should be at the same indentation level, and all inner contents should be at a greater indentation level. 00:14:40 Well... that's not completely accurate. 00:14:52 In any case, here's how I'd do an "if" statement: 00:14:56 if (foo) { 00:14:59 bar; 00:15:01 } else { 00:15:03 baz; 00:15:04 } 00:15:16 All braces are at the same indentation level, as are the keywords "if" and "else". 00:15:46 The "indentation level that a token is at" means the amount that the line is indented, not the point where the left edge of the token appears. 00:16:01 Meanwhile, "bar;" and "baz;" are at the next greater indentation level. 00:17:00 "foo" is inner contents, but it's allowed to occupy a single line along with delimiters. 00:17:02 <\oren\> that's indeed how I indent 00:17:15 How about a big function call? Like this: 00:17:18 functionCall( 00:17:21 bigLongArgumentOne, 00:17:25 bigLongArgumentTwo, 00:17:25 ) 00:17:47 <\oren\> hmmm that's a good idea 00:18:08 Thou shalt not indent a line in order to make its beginning line up with a token inside of the line above it, for that is detestable to Me. 00:18:31 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 00:19:39 So that means in Haskell, you don't do this: 00:19:41 do blah; 00:19:42 blah; 00:19:44 Do this instead: 00:19:45 do 00:19:46 blah; 00:19:48 blah; 00:20:35 Try to make this "indent the inner contents of a syntax element" thing the only style of indentation that you use. 00:20:46 There's one other style which is okay, but should be avoided. 00:21:14 Namely: you can break a syntax element that would normally be one line across two lines, putting a line break in an arbitrary place and indenting the second line. 00:23:48 Here's an officially tswett-approved way of indenting SQL: 00:23:49 SELECT people.height 00:23:50 FROM 00:23:50 people 00:23:50 INNER JOIN cities 00:23:52 ON people.name = cities.name 00:32:45 -!- boily has joined. 00:32:53 @massages-loud 00:32:54 You don't have any messages 00:33:20 <\oren\> konboilyha 00:33:57 \bonsorenoir\. 00:35:24 Groileetings. 00:36:12 salutswettations. 00:38:17 Also... 00:39:36 ... 00:40:07 ...? 00:40:52 ... ... ... 00:41:43 * boily is tempted to mapole tswett 00:41:58 ....... 00:43:05 <\oren\> ………………… 00:43:42 -!- aretecode has joined. 00:43:44 <\oren\> ,,、 00:43:52 。。。。。。 00:44:14 . . . . . 00:44:56 <\oren\> ⁙⁙⁙⁙⁙⁙⁙⁙ 00:46:26 <\oren\> ︙ 00:46:28 <\oren\> ︙ 00:46:32 <\oren\> ︙ 00:46:34 ¨¨¨¨¨¨ 00:47:29 <\oren\> ⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰⋱⋰ 00:47:50 . . . .. . .. . . . . .. . .. . . . . .. . .. . . . . .. . .. . 00:48:08 .. . . .. . .. ... .. ...... . .. . .. . . .... 00:48:41 -!- andrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:49:51 Never mind. 00:50:09 -!- bender|_ has joined. 00:50:21 why do I have the feeling there's a fnord hidden somewhere in that... 00:53:30 You know what the worst thing is? 00:54:07 multiple fnords? no fnords? reverse fnord? 00:54:49 fungot: What's the worst thing in life? Something about your enemies? 00:54:50 fizzie: that it makes a guest of it, much as the moon takes liberty. reason. justice. civility. edification. perfection. for the first time in i don't have a very exciting 24 hours or so. 00:57:48 The fnord was contained in *your* messages. 00:58:08 `? fnord 00:58:19 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:58:28 `file wisdom/fnord 00:58:29 wisdom/fnord: UTF-8 Unicode text 00:58:36 `hexdump wisdom/fnord 00:58:36 0000000 203f afc2 285c b0c2 80e2 5f8b 296f c22f \ 0000010 0aaf \ 0000012 00:58:58 `run echo '​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯' | hexdump 00:58:58 0000000 80e2 3f8b c220 5caf c228 e2b0 8b80 6f5f \ 0000010 2f29 afc2 000a \ 0000015 00:59:14 the fnord was in you all along 01:00:06 So... how are those different? 01:00:08 tswett: are you confused 01:00:13 `run unidecode $(wisdom/fnord) 01:00:15 bash: wisdom/fnord: Permission denied 01:00:20 `run unidecode $(cat wisdom/fnord) 01:00:20 ​[U+003F QUESTION MARK] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+00AF MACRON] [U+005C REVERSE SOLIDUS] [U+0028 LEFT PARENTHESIS] [U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN] [U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE] [U+005F LOW LINE] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+0029 RIGHT PARENTHESIS] [U+002F SOLIDUS] [U+00AF MACRON] 01:00:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:00:44 The Fnord you can grasp is not the True Fnord. 01:00:53 `unidecode ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:00:54 ​[U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE] [U+003F QUESTION MARK] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+00AF MACRON] [U+005C REVERSE SOLIDUS] [U+0028 LEFT PARENTHESIS] [U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN] [U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE] [U+005F LOW LINE] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+0029 RIGHT PARENTHESIS] [U+002F SOLIDUS] [U+00AF MACRON] 01:01:15 That'll do it. 01:01:32 `run unidecode $(cat /dev/urandom) 01:01:55 * tswett taps boily's foot. 01:02:03 `run unidecode $(cat /dev/urandom | head -c 50) 01:02:19 `loudly Are you still with us, HackEgo? 01:02:25 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode(input, err 01:02:26 ​Are you still with us, HackEgo? 01:02:26 No output. 01:03:16 `ls 01:03:19 ​:-( \ yellow \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints.mp3 \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ ibin \ interps \ le \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ u8tbl \ u8tbl.c \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 01:03:21 holy fungot. this is aggressive! 01:03:22 boily: have a look. which of course it was a nasty pair, but he had already been a mass grave 01:03:47 who the hell wants little-endian 16-bit hexdumps 01:03:53 `run unidecode $(ls *yellow*) 01:03:55 No output. 01:04:14 Doink. 01:04:24 Wait, no doink. 01:04:31 `run echo $(ls *yellow*) 01:04:32 ​yellow 01:04:43 `run unidecode '$(ls *yellow*)' 01:04:44 ​[U+0024 DOLLAR SIGN] [U+0028 LEFT PARENTHESIS] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+002A ASTERISK] [U+0079 LATIN SMALL LETTER Y] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+0077 LATIN SMALL LETTER W] [U+002A ASTERISK] [U+0029 R 01:05:11 `run ls *yellow* | hexdump 01:05:12 0000000 3003 2c31 3830 6579 6c6c 776f 0a03 \ 000000e 01:06:20 WHY ARE YOU USING little-endian hexdumps? 01:06:36 Hmm. 01:06:41 Hmmmmm. 01:06:45 `run rm -v *yellow* 01:06:49 removed `\00301,08yellow\003' 01:09:18 `run which hexdump 01:09:19 ​/usr/bin/hexdump 01:09:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:09:33 `` echo hello | hexdump 01:09:34 0000000 6568 6c6c 0a6f \ 0000006 01:10:09 it really is 16 bit little endian. there's something fundamentally wrong there. 01:10:12 `run echo 12345 | hexdump 01:10:13 0000000 3231 3433 0a35 \ 0000006 01:10:30 `` echo hello | hexdump -C 01:10:32 00000000 68 65 6c 6c 6f 0a |hello.| \ 00000006 01:10:45 much more sane. 01:10:55 as a sane person, I concur. 01:16:35 All righty now. 01:16:36 `ls 01:16:37 ​:-( \ (* \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ close \ *) \ Complaints.mp3 \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ ibin \ interps \ le \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ u8tbl \ u8tbl.c \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 01:16:56 ` (* 01:16:57 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 01:17:20 ` \(\* 01:17:21 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 01:17:26 ...??? 01:17:35 You seem to be trying to run a command with an empty name. 01:17:58 ` Since the command name is the thing between the grave accent and the space. 01:17:59 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 01:18:06 And you're not puting anything there. 01:18:09 ah, oops 01:18:14 dat keming 01:18:17 `(* 01:18:18 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: (*: not found 01:18:25 still, not sure what the hell is 01:18:27 -!- bb010g has joined. 01:18:28 `` \(\* 01:18:28 it is* 01:18:29 bash: (*: command not found 01:18:34 Also, it's not in bin. 01:18:51 `` find / -name '(*' -type f 01:19:22 find: `/proc/tty/driver': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/task/1/fd': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/task/1/fdinfo': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/task/1/ns': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/fd': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/fdinfo': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/1/ns': Permission denied \ find: `/proc/2/task/2/fd': Permissi 01:19:38 derp. 01:19:59 `` find / -name '(*' -type f 2>/dev/null 01:20:11 No output. 01:20:21 `run ls *'*'* 01:20:22 ​(* \ close \ *) 01:21:04 `cat cat 01:21:04 Meow~~ >^.^< 01:21:10 `cat emoticons/* 01:21:11 cat: emoticons/*: No such file or directory 01:21:17 `run cat emoticons/* 01:21:19 lol \ 凸 \ ガ~(゚ロ゚;)~ン \ (°Д°) \ (≧∇≦)/ \ ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ ーー蟲蟲 \ オラオラオラ(三・o・)三☆三(`ε´三)無駄無駄無駄無駄 01:21:33 We have a bunch of them. 01:21:35 `ls emoticons 01:21:36 drowning \ flipbird \ gaaan \ gaan \ kyaa \ shrug \ swatter \ useless 01:22:59 swatter is pretty nice ^^ 01:23:16 \oren\: do you have 蟲 in your font? 01:28:21 isn't that an insect attack? 01:30:12 six 虫 at the end of a stick being swung around! 01:30:34 `` run ls *close* 01:30:35 run run run 01:30:42 `` ls *close* 01:30:43 close \ *) 01:30:48 oh 01:33:48 <\oren\> boily: not yet 01:34:35 <\oren\> also the letter omega is now known as wubbleyou 01:35:04 <\oren\> it's a cuddly doubleyou 01:37:08 `addquote <\oren\> also the letter omega is now known as wubbleyou <\oren\> it's a cuddly doubleyou 01:37:11 1260) <\oren\> also the letter omega is now known as wubbleyou <\oren\> it's a cuddly doubleyou 01:46:23 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:48:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:57:38 -!- jaboja64 has joined. 01:58:54 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:08:41 -!- andrew has joined. 02:08:42 I thought it was spelled "doubleu". 02:09:16 -!- andrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:12:01 -!- andrew has joined. 02:12:52 you and your friend have a file with 1000 numbers (two copies of the same file). you have to find the highest number in that file 02:13:00 this would be easy, but who finishes first wins 02:13:16 and if A finishes first but B finds a larger number, B wins 02:13:49 you don't really have to find the highest value, just some value higher than what your friend finds 02:14:04 or finish first with the same value 02:14:36 what strategy do you use? 02:22:54 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:23:58 sample 1 / e * 1000 values, use the highest. 02:24:13 > floor $ 1 / (exp 1) * 1000 02:24:15 367 02:24:30 is that just a guess or do you have proof 02:24:59 i recognize the strategy from a very different problem 02:25:16 finding the best meal at a restaurant or something, iirc hth 02:26:06 that problem has the restriction that you only get one chance to choose each option. 02:26:50 > exp (-1) 02:26:52 0.36787944117144233 02:27:26 i'm pretty sure this isn't optimal, because it can be beaten on average by the "check all the numbers dammit" strategy 02:28:30 which i believe _ties_ with the "check 50%" strategy... 02:28:58 still checking 367 of them because e. I like e. 02:29:04 e is good 02:29:45 > 1 % 2 02:29:46 1 % 2 02:29:54 what about the "check 367", then go on until you find a larger one, then stop 02:30:03 which is most similar 02:30:44 > (1 % 1 + 1 % 10000000) ^ 10000000 02:30:48 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 02:30:49 but i'm not sure if it makes sense to use a strategy that is not just a number of values to check 02:31:41 of course if you know your opponent's strategy, you should check one number less i think 02:31:56 or well 02:32:05 maybe not 02:32:36 a bfjoust for finding the largest number in a list. 02:32:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:32:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:34:33 [wiki] [[O]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45798&oldid=43930 * Phase * (-1) 02:38:23 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ACYCLIC CHICKEN). 02:38:34 hm this problem has a bit of the two envelopes problem in it 02:39:25 wait not that 02:49:05 <\oren\> Hmm can't I just run a simulation 03:05:44 <\oren\> wait, what about the order of the numbers 03:06:36 <\oren\> the strategy "check the first N numbers" is faster than "shuffle then check N numbers" 03:16:44 <\oren\> my simulation gives: 03:16:52 <\oren\> A= 123456789A 03:16:52 <\oren\> B=1 -aaAAAAAAA 03:16:52 <\oren\> B=2 b--aaaaAAA 03:16:52 <\oren\> B=3 bb---aaaaa 03:16:52 <\oren\> B=4 Bb--b----a 03:16:55 <\oren\> B=5 Bbba-bb--- 03:16:57 <\oren\> B=6 Bbb-a-bbbb 03:17:00 <\oren\> B=7 Bbb-aa-bbb 03:17:02 <\oren\> B=8 BBb--aa-BB 03:17:05 <\oren\> B=9 BBbb-aaA-B 03:17:07 <\oren\> B=a BBbb-aaAA- 03:17:18 <\oren\> where a,A is advantage to A, b,B is advantage to B 03:18:24 fancy 03:18:41 <\oren\> capitals are advantages > 500 in 1000 trials 03:18:50 <\oren\> lowercase is >100 03:20:02 <\oren\> sort of a prisoner's dilemma happening in part of the diagram 03:20:19 <\oren\> this is on an array of 10 numbers 03:20:27 i think if they always check the first N numbers, then whoever stops first will always have checked a subset of the other one 03:20:35 so will never have a _larger_ number 03:20:53 so there should be shuffling. 03:20:55 <\oren\> also in this simulation, both player shuffle independently 03:21:00 oh. 03:22:34 so it is best to check _much_ more numbers than the opponent, or _slightly_ fewer. 03:23:36 the first gives you a better chance of finding the maximum, the latter gives you a better chance of finishing first 03:24:32 (but still with a good maximum) 03:26:38 <\oren\> I should make a better heatmap 03:27:10 if your opponent checks many numbers, you should check slightly fewer. if e checks few, you should check more than em. 03:27:25 hm that's pretty PD 03:27:51 but not quite 03:28:31 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:28:58 about half is fairly good too 03:30:04 <\oren\> A= 123456789A 03:30:04 <\oren\> B=1 -aαAAAAAAA 03:30:04 <\oren\> B=2 b-aaαααAAA 03:30:04 <\oren\> B=3 βb---aaααα 03:30:04 <\oren\> B=4 Bb--b---aa 03:30:06 <\oren\> B=5 Bβ-a-bbb-- 03:30:09 <\oren\> B=6 Bβb-a-βbbb 03:30:11 <\oren\> B=7 Bβb-aα-βββ 03:30:14 <\oren\> B=8 BBβ-aaα-BB 03:30:16 <\oren\> B=9 BBβb-aαA-B 03:30:19 <\oren\> B=a BBβb-aαAA- 03:30:52 <\oren\> here the greek letters represent an advantage of 3 per 10 or more 03:31:29 <\oren\> eh doesn;t tell much more 03:31:33 <\oren\> bah 03:31:51 there's a kind of phase shift between 4 and 5 03:33:46 it's a little too thin to have rock-paper-scissors 03:34:27 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/envelopes.htm 03:34:28 4 beats 5 beats 6 beats a beats 4 03:35:07 <\oren\> oh, I see 03:35:13 oh wait 03:35:19 5 beats 8 03:35:51 8 beats a 03:36:31 no, still four steps 03:39:07 <\oren\> maybe it would exist if there were more strategies? 03:39:21 <\oren\> that is, a larger array? 03:40:29 well some of those - could be a slight advantage 03:41:25 -!- andrew has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:41:38 -!- andrew has joined. 03:42:28 <\oren\> A= 123456789abcdef 03:42:28 <\oren\> B=1 -ααAAAAAAAAAAAA 03:42:28 <\oren\> B=2 β-aaααAAAAAAAAA 03:42:28 <\oren\> B=3 βb--aaαααααAAAA 03:42:28 <\oren\> B=4 Bb----aaaaααααα 03:42:30 <\oren\> B=5 Bβb-----aaaaaaα 03:42:33 <\oren\> B=6 Bβb---b-----aaa 03:42:35 <\oren\> B=7 BBβb-a-bbb----- 03:42:38 <\oren\> B=8 BBβb--a-bbbbb-- 03:42:40 <\oren\> B=9 BBβb--aa-ββbbbb 03:42:43 <\oren\> B=a BBβbb-aaα-βββββ 03:42:45 <\oren\> B=b BBββb--aαα-BBββ 03:42:48 <\oren\> B=c BBBβb--aaαA-BBB 03:42:50 <\oren\> B=d BBBβbb-aaαAA-BB 03:42:53 <\oren\> B=e BBBββb--aααAA-B 03:42:55 <\oren\> B=f BBBββb--aααAAA- 03:42:58 <\oren\> 15 options 03:43:30 <^v> \oren\, i like your style 03:43:37 6 - 7 - a - f - 6 03:43:41 still four 03:43:44 <^v> who needs pasting services? 03:43:52 <^v> just post the shit IRC 03:45:00 * oerjan wonders if ^v sounds a little grumpy 03:45:12 IT'S FOR SCIENCE 03:45:32 <^v> its sarcasm xD i dont care if you spam but some people might 03:46:21 <\oren\> ^v: meh, I figure we spent like 10 minutes posting nothing but various dots earlier, so whatever 03:46:28 given that the channel is _still_ slow on average... 03:48:10 the 6 - 7 is the main chokepoint, you cannot avoid having both 03:48:53 <\oren\> I think the lines of - are probably infinitely thin (as the nubmer of options increases) 03:49:08 -!- bb010g has joined. 03:50:24 <\oren\> but still the b zone and the a zone would always be mirrored created a 6-7 chokepoint 03:53:19 in fact larger seems worse, since the distance between what you can get from 7 and what can reach 6 increases 03:53:44 (in the 4 - 5 case before, they're 8 and 9 so neigbors) 04:03:32 -!- jaboja64 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:23:35 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:40:51 -!- bender|_ has quit (Quit: Ping Pong Fuckout). 05:02:07 <\oren\> oerjan: I modified it to print even the smallest advantages 05:02:18 <\oren\> with b as , and a as . 05:02:21 <\oren\> A= 123456789abcdef 05:02:22 <\oren\> B=1 -ααAAAAAAAAAAAA 05:02:22 <\oren\> B=2 β-aaαααAAAAAAAA 05:02:22 <\oren\> B=3 βb-.aaαααααAAAA 05:02:22 <\oren\> B=4 Bb,-,.aaaaααααα 05:02:24 <\oren\> B=5 Bβb.-,,..aaaaαα 05:02:26 <\oren\> B=6 Bβb,.-b,,-..aaa 05:02:29 <\oren\> B=7 BBβb.a-bbb,,-.. 05:02:31 <\oren\> B=8 BBβb,.a-bbbbb,, 05:02:34 <\oren\> B=9 BBβbb.aa-ββbbbb 05:02:36 <\oren\> B=a BBβbb-aaα-βββββ 05:02:39 <\oren\> B=b BBββb,.aαα-BBββ 05:02:41 <\oren\> B=c BBBβb,.aaαA-BBB 05:02:44 <\oren\> B=d BBBβbb-aaαAA-BB 05:02:46 <\oren\> B=e BBBβbb,aaααAA-B 05:02:49 <\oren\> B=f BBBββb,.aααAAA- 05:03:21 <\oren\> , and . indicate only a 1/100 to 1/10 advantage 05:03:44 <\oren\> but as you can see, at 4,5,6 there is a cycle! 05:03:57 f -> 7 -> c as well 05:06:37 in any case, there's not a winning pure strategy 05:07:16 but there should be a mixed one 05:07:47 "Writing U+BF (two hexadecimal digits) is not common practice, nor is writing an odd number of hexadecimal digits." 05:07:54 I think that last part of the sentence is wrong 05:08:22 <\oren\> U+1F673 05:08:29 <\oren\> (random number) 05:08:43 `unicode U+1F673 05:08:44 ​🙳 05:08:53 `unidecode 🙳 05:08:55 U+1F673 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9f 99 b3 UTF-16BE: d83dde73 Decimal: 🙳 \ 🙳 (🙳) \ Uppercase: U+1F673 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) 05:09:10 råndöm 05:10:06 "UTF-8 can therefore be used to exchange data among computers no matter what their native byte ordering is. For this reason, UTF-8 is becoming the de facto standard for encoding web pages." 05:10:12 I... think there may be other reasons too 05:10:42 <\oren\> such as the dominance of linux over web servers? 05:10:58 Such as ASCII being valid UTF-8 05:11:03 Although the page does mention that 05:11:39 <\oren\> that too, but that's true of Shift-JIS and the EUC-* encodings too 05:16:14 <\oren\> So the combination of being ascii-compatible and supporting all languages 05:16:37 <\oren\> (where all means "languages commonly used on the internet") 05:32:10 -!- lleu has joined. 05:32:11 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 05:32:11 -!- lleu has joined. 05:32:35 \oren\: GB 18030! 05:32:57 which is pan-Unicode and compatible to GBK in addition to ASCII 05:38:18 <\oren\> wow. nice 05:43:27 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:43:56 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:43:58 GB 18030 is kinda a pain to encode and decode. 05:44:04 \oren\: and we now have a nasty conversion table, hehe 05:44:22 pikhq: yup 05:44:44 But, it is at least a full encoding of Unicode, and thus vastly better than the typical legacy encoding. 05:45:13 Much better than, say, Shift-JIS. 05:46:02 Sgeo_: The best rationale is that UTF-8 is: multi-lingual, ASCII compatible, and *relatively easy to support*. 05:46:05 -!- augur has joined. 05:47:37 -!- Walpurgisnacht has joined. 05:55:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 06:10:59 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:16:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:16:52 UTF-8 is compatible with Principle of Extended ASCII though, while Shift-JIS isn't 06:44:24 -!- tromp has joined. 06:48:47 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:00:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:06:22 -!- adu has joined. 07:28:31 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 07:31:33 Which are better encoding of list of natural numbers as natural numbers, is it the "Reverse Numeric Encoding" (I made it up), or the "Modified Godel Encoding" (my modified version of some other people's idea to make it properly one-to-one)? 07:37:35 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:38:53 What's the "Reverse Numeric Encoding"? 07:39:31 The one I described before that involves reversing the bits 08:02:49 zzo38: So "Not Enoding"? 08:03:41 I do not understand you. 08:07:14 In both cases only finite lists are encoded, but it does even include empty list. 08:07:44 putting 3 pages of polynoms on a solution to a task: check 08:10:58 If you are encoding tuples instead then you can use Morton encoding (there are other ways too but I used Morton encoding because of INTERCAL); it is simpler than encoding lists. 08:11:27 -!- andrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:11:53 -!- Walpurgisnacht has quit (Quit: Car man Hook hand Car door). 08:13:05 -!- andrew has joined. 08:29:11 Don't you know that INTERCAL can make Morton encodings and Gray encodings? 08:40:12 -!- mroman has joined. 08:40:16 freenode's having trouble again? 08:42:27 -!- mauris has joined. 08:44:43 -!- tromp has joined. 08:48:54 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:49:39 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:51:05 -!- zadock has joined. 08:53:11 http://i.imgur.com/3DkP9KD.png 08:53:20 ^- when 50% of the webpage is advertisment 08:55:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:59:37 -!- andrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:02:13 -!- andrew has joined. 09:05:50 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:17:08 -!- andrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:35:51 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:46:04 -!- tromp has joined. 09:50:19 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:50:29 Well... I've written a tool that "compresses" images down to ASCII only 09:50:43 or in other terms: a binary PPM file with only ascii values 09:50:55 so every pixel can be represented using only ascii for raw binary ppms 09:51:15 can you show some example? 09:53:03 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 09:53:45 http://codepad.org/WtyQmCT4 09:54:18 that's a 32x32 picture of Lena. 09:56:31 http://codepad.org/a7KQLWdc <- 128x128 picture of some airport 09:56:39 -!- mauris has joined. 09:56:48 and as you can probably guess from the repeating values the original picture was a jpeg :D 09:57:53 izabera: the image will be darker though, because the max value is 126 09:58:47 but you can just use in image viewer than can multiply each value by around 2.8 09:58:54 then it looks bright again 10:00:59 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:03:38 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 10:04:24 but that's not very useful 10:04:29 ppm files are too huge 10:04:39 you better use png and b64 obviously 10:04:56 can you show a larger picture? 10:05:19 or the program itself? 10:08:52 mroman: but wouldn't that restrict what bnrightnesses you can use? 10:09:36 mroman: wait, why would you use 255 max brightness for this in first place, as opposed to say 126 max brightness? 10:09:46 that would at least let you make bright pixels, even if not dark ones 10:10:12 yeah that's gimp :) 10:10:24 but ideally it would use 126 as max brightness yes 10:10:33 izabera: Just scale down rgb by 2.8 then shift 32 10:15:13 izabera: http://codepad.org/GA06KiBh 10:15:16 ^- that's the program 10:16:39 The RESUME and STASH and RETRIEVE commands of INTERCAL are also very similar command found in dc. The operation of ~ operator is also found in BESM-6 instruction set. The $ and ? operators are also things that have been invented before. 10:17:02 http://mroman.ch/imgshare/ascii.ppm 10:17:04 That's a bigger picture 10:17:09 it's 2.3M though 10:17:18 (ppms are huge) 10:18:25 b_jonas: You only have the range 32-126 available basically 10:18:26 so 10:18:30 really dark things get brighter 10:18:37 bright things get darker a lot 10:19:01 so yeah, image quality isn't very good :D 10:20:54 you can open it in gimp and do a white balance correction 10:21:03 and it looks roughly like the original picture again 10:22:20 mroman: yes, but if you set 126 max brightness then bright things remain bright. and you could try to use newline and a few other control characters for dark stuff. 10:22:36 you already have newlines in the header 10:23:41 yeah but you'd need to shift it down by 32 again 10:23:49 since 32 is the darkest value possible 10:24:16 but this has no useful purpose anyway 10:24:36 that I can think of :) 10:24:42 for ASCII medium use b64 :) 10:24:50 or PPM Ascii 10:25:00 -!- trn has quit (Quit: quit). 10:27:47 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:32:13 -!- trn has joined. 10:32:17 -!- Lymia has joined. 10:37:21 -!- trn has quit (Excess Flood). 10:39:08 -!- trn has joined. 10:39:50 -!- myndzi has quit (Excess Flood). 10:42:38 -!- trn has quit (Excess Flood). 10:44:57 -!- trn has joined. 10:49:16 -!- myndzi has joined. 10:53:32 -!- andrew has joined. 11:23:39 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:24:01 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:31:40 -!- boily has joined. 11:33:13 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:46:49 -!- tromp has joined. 11:51:08 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:57:57 -!- mauris has joined. 12:00:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:11:40 `wisdom 12:11:52 ... 12:11:52 science/Semi-automatic text generation. 12:13:09 fungot, do you like ascii ppm? 12:13:09 b_jonas: only one of his kind with this mutant candy-red blood. an outcast. he thinks it's about to be. someone needs to grab the beta ( 6) in the room. he briefly speaks to its strife! quota for the day. she simply returns to the land of wind and shade. in a kid's yard. not even that sure why 12:13:39 yes. 12:22:11 fungot: on top of being sentient, your creepiness levels are spiking as of late. please stop. 12:22:11 boily: man. it is a good idea. 12:22:15 fungot: no. 12:22:16 boily: like a very clear mirror to break, luckwise. unfortunately it lacks a portal in space. jade's radioactive, omnipotent, space-warping dog named... which is a name i just made you disappear" and stuff 12:28:29 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GINGER CHICKEN). 12:41:35 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:47:55 -!- andrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:52:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:56:06 -!- Welo has joined. 13:12:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:39:24 \o/ 13:57:31 -!- tromp has joined. 14:04:49 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:08:23 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:09:50 [wiki] [[Talk:Silly Emplosions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45799&oldid=13872 * 212.219.250.79 * (+96) /* CONTRADICTIONS */ new section 14:13:29 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:16:49 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:20:10 -!- TieSoul has joined. 14:23:43 -!- vifino has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:24:15 -!- vifino has joined. 14:26:00 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:28:53 https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison is live on Github now. 14:29:12 (also, sample pages etc. are automatically redirected to https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample ) 14:35:23 -!- glowcoil has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:38:00 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:43:55 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:47:49 -!- edwardk has joined. 14:49:37 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:51:19 -!- glowcoil has joined. 14:54:40 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 15:09:05 -!- tromp has joined. 15:13:42 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:17:25 -!- newsham has joined. 15:17:32 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:26:42 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:27:22 -!- zgrep has changed nick to mterc. 15:29:08 -!- mterc has changed nick to zgrep. 15:36:25 -!- mauris has joined. 15:52:05 -!- Welo has joined. 16:14:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:15:40 -!- adu has joined. 16:26:08 -!- spiette has joined. 16:26:16 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 16:27:19 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:27:35 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 16:53:26 -!- singingb1yo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:57:00 -!- singingboyo has joined. 16:58:29 -!- BloodGod has joined. 17:01:31 -!- singingboyo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:02:22 -!- BloodGod has changed nick to B1ood6od. 17:02:52 -!- singingboyo has joined. 17:03:12 -!- B1ood6od has changed nick to BloodGod. 17:05:04 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:07:43 -!- singingboyo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:08:42 -!- singingboyo has joined. 17:09:24 -!- tromp has joined. 17:14:34 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:17:03 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:22:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:23:09 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:29:52 -!- aretecode has joined. 17:33:21 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:37:06 -!- BloodGod has quit (Changing host). 17:37:06 -!- BloodGod has joined. 17:39:05 I got an idea about two days ago on a language based off befunge and an important hobby of mine, Rubiks cubes. Been working it out since then. 17:57:08 programming in latex is pretty hard 17:57:27 way harder than brainfuck 18:05:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Latex^Hr). 18:08:41 -!- ^v has joined. 18:22:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:25:57 -!- atrapado has joined. 18:31:38 Then, learn Plain TeX programming. 18:41:04 i already fail to accomplish shit in latex due to expanding issues 18:41:11 edef doesn't help, sadly 18:42:53 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:51:17 I have written the following macro: \def\ecall#1{\begingroup\edef\next{\endgroup#1}\next} It often helps with some things 18:51:19 -!- rntz has left. 18:51:30 Although, expanding issues in TeX can sometimes be confusing 18:51:32 -!- aretecode has joined. 18:52:57 what does that do? 18:52:58 -!- Welo has joined. 18:56:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:04:33 It fully expands the text before executing it 19:05:21 well, i do get "missing }" errors out of edef 19:21:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:21:34 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 19:21:34 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 19:35:24 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 19:53:09 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:54:46 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * HYPotenuser * New user account 20:03:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:04:21 Im trying to figure out how to decrypt some encrypted smali. Woo. 20:08:56 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:09:12 -!- mihow has joined. 20:14:10 -!- jaboja has joined. 20:38:24 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:41:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:51:35 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:15:26 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 21:16:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:18:18 -!- spiette has joined. 21:20:06 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 21:22:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:54:42 -!- MoALTz has joined. 22:10:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:14:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:25:22 Huh. For some reason my doubly-linked list loops back on itself after a certain point 22:35:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:35:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:38:26 It throws no errors during compilation 22:38:28 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:38:45 Don't they all? 22:38:54 The offending line seems to be conductor=conductor->next;, though I could very, /very/ easily be wrong 22:39:19 I removed all recursion in case it was stack overflowing. That was not the issue. 22:39:55 (that conductor=conductor->next; is in a "while(conductor->next!=NULL){...}" loop) 22:40:07 (I'm attempting to find the last item in the list) 22:41:00 shachaf: Not if you only follow the "next" pointers 22:44:09 After the loop is conductor->next = &nd; nd.prev = conductor; and then the function is over 22:44:51 conductor is a pointer to the current node when it starts, nd is the argument of the function and should be another node; the one you want to add. 22:44:59 What am I doing wrong? 22:46:05 implementing linked list by hand 22:47:27 quintopia: Couldn't find anything on the internet that implements it themselves. At least, nothing good 22:47:34 Though I'm not a particularly good googler 22:48:28 Ok 22:48:33 NOW I found it 22:48:36 you should probably do conductor.next = &nd instead 22:49:15 oh wait nvm 22:49:43 look away everyone 22:50:15 &kay 22:50:30 but that line still feels wrong 22:50:40 why the &? 22:52:05 quintopia: Because I am fumbling my way around until it works and when I did that, it stuck. 22:53:24 i get it now 22:53:40 nd is the actual node, not a pointer 22:53:47 OK 22:53:58 quintopia: I suspected that was bad practics 22:54:00 *practice 22:54:11 its fine 22:54:14 Now I can't figure out how to access an arbitrary node with #include 22:54:22 Please tell me that's possible 22:54:28 It's not necessarily "fine"; I think we're missing quite a lot of context. 22:54:32 C code is made from bad practice 22:54:43 quintopia: Oh right. 22:54:56 fizzie: I'm fumbling my way around. 22:55:00 Of course you are. 22:55:25 I mean, if it's e.g. an automatically allocated object, generally putting pointers at one into a linked list is only useful in rare circumstances. 22:57:38 Well I have to go soon. 23:00:19 -!- BloodGod has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:03:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:21:33 -!- adu has joined. 23:24:26 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:43:24 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:57:58 -!- jaboja64 has joined.