00:05:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ESON]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45831 * Hppavilion1 * (+2568) Created Page (incomplete
00:06:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ESON]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45832&oldid=45831 * Hppavilion1 * (+15) Forgot to cover floats
00:08:51 <hppavilion[1]> For some reason, <code>/"[^\s]*/</code> is referring to render as code
00:09:47 <hppavilion[1]> The <code> tag actually renders (but not the closing tag) and the box (but only that box) renders as unformatted text
00:10:03 <oerjan> try <code><nowiki>...</nowiki></code>
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00:13:24 <hppavilion[1]> Nope. Replaced it with " and I get the same error.
00:14:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ESON]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45833&oldid=45832 * Hppavilion1 * (+5) /* Commands */ Tried to fix formatting. Gave up.
00:24:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ESON]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45834&oldid=45833 * Oerjan * (+2) The error was somewhere completely different
00:26:05 <oerjan> i replaced almost everything by &entities;, it didn't help, and i tried removing <code></code> to see if the entities where being recognized at all. then i saw the error move to the next row...
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00:26:19 <oerjan> and only then did i think to look at the previous one.
00:28:47 <oerjan> weird how that didn't affect the intermediate cell at all...
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00:30:37 <oerjan> hm in the html it's all escaped, except that the missing </code> is probably autoinserted by the </td>
00:31:27 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: my guess is that the wiki somehow handles <code> detection and table formatting independently, causing a crazy confusion when a tag is missing.
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00:32:34 <oerjan> the </code> on the _previous_ row was missing
00:34:39 <oerjan> which probably caused the wiki to think the next <code> was inside a <code>, so it escaped it.
00:35:06 <oerjan> and somehow this happened independently of the table formatting
00:35:53 <oerjan> and html (at least in my browser) is flexible enough to auto-close/ignore the erroneous <code> and </code> tags remaining
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00:37:50 <oerjan> or in other words, mediawiki parsing is insane, piecemeal, and ad hoc.
00:38:28 <boily> KRF is mediawiki's parsing?
00:38:32 <oerjan> `learn KRF is the Norwegian Christian Democratic Party.
00:38:37 <HackEgo> Learned 'krf': KRF is the Norwegian Christian Democratic Party.
00:39:01 <oerjan> boily: actually it's ... i've forgotten it already but it's hppavilion[1]'s latest idea.
00:39:27 <oerjan> something something format
00:40:01 * oerjan preserves the mystery by not checking his backscroll
00:40:04 <boily> and YLE is the Finnish Broadcasting Company.
00:40:15 <boily> a thing doesn't need to be known to be known hth
00:42:11 <boily> also, I'm progressing through the Advent of Code. I used the loeb combinator to solve day 7!
00:43:45 * oerjan assumes that this is something that would cause his webreading catchup to go backwards if he allowed himself to get sucked in.
00:44:50 <oerjan> i think esolangs.org is sliding to the point where i'm giving up on it
00:45:10 <oerjan> (somewhere around September 15 iirc)
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00:46:50 <oerjan> if i do that, i might be able to get r/reddit caught up to the beginning of november soon.
00:47:58 <oerjan> shachaf: Kristelig FolkeParti, technically.
00:48:11 <shachaf> oerjan: how do you feel about your completionist tendencies
00:48:39 <shachaf> oerjan: also since when do you .-terminate your irc sentences
00:48:54 <oerjan> also i'm afraid i might need glasses at some close point in the future.
00:50:02 <oerjan> they're not very transparent.
00:51:06 <oerjan> shachaf: i dunno about the .s but at least i'm not consistent about it.
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01:12:18 <coppro> \oren\: shouldn't it be konboilywa
01:13:08 <boily> chelloppro! it depends on the romanization scheme hth
01:13:22 <coppro> boily: but yours is definitely wrong
01:13:41 <boily> I katakanaed it because reasons.
01:13:56 <coppro> wouldn't the last kana change, then?
01:13:58 <boily> it usually is こんばんは, with the infamous は.
01:14:28 <boily> maybe. I'm not an expert in historical kana usage, which I guess would dictate which one to use.
01:15:00 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: the `bienvenido command *does* say that most people here don't speak Spanish.
01:15:06 <coppro> quick research indicates that yeah, katakana is always phonetic
01:15:21 <coppro> you don't use ハ for wa ever
01:15:58 <tswett> Doink, you already got @told that.
01:16:15 <lifthrasiir> boily: it seems that it was actually the reverse, i.e. the final ha is spelt ha and pronunced wa (then later standardized to phonetic values except for postpositions)
01:17:39 <tswett> I thought that the topic marker particle は was always written "wa" rather than "ha", in, like, every romanization scheme.
01:18:06 <pikhq> Not every. Wapuro romaji doesn't. :)
01:19:21 <boily> that's why you sometimes get syo/sho, si/shi, ha/wa, wo/o...
01:19:42 <boily> another good argument to conflagrate Norwegian and Japanese together.
01:20:34 <pikhq> Wapuro is particularly helpful in that it actually can encode some kana use that other schemes don't.
01:21:36 <\oren\> yah, like you can distinguish onee from onei
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01:22:29 <\oren\> and oo (big) from ou (king)
01:22:52 <pikhq> And you can actually write "ti" (as opposed to "chi")
01:23:15 <boily> shouldn't that be texi or teli?
01:24:08 <pikhq> boily: Yeah, yeah.
01:24:25 <pikhq> "ti" is more informal Hepburn-esque romanization.
01:24:31 <\oren\> like dexizuni- (disney)
01:26:02 <boily> . o O ( are there any conlangs/transcriptions that explicitely encode weird keystrokes like that? )
01:26:28 <pikhq> Or "t`exis`uni-" if you use pikhq romaji.
01:27:45 <\oren\> hahahaahahahahaahahahahahahahah
01:28:14 <FireFly> ` representing dakuten? what do you do for the ° in 'p*'?
01:28:15 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
01:28:16 <boily> you broke oren. brorenke.
01:28:40 <FireFly> Oh, literally. I thought it was a pointer to a previous message first
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01:29:00 <pikhq> FireFly: Basically all I wanted was a trivial mapping from kana to ASCII, for... Honestly, shits and giggles.
01:30:14 <pikhq> About the only advantage is it can represent really unusual kana use, as in Ainu.
01:30:43 <FireFly> I forget what language family that was in, but it was something entirely non-japanese, wasn't it?
01:30:46 <pikhq> "axinu itaxku", for instance.
01:30:53 <pikhq> FireFly: Yep. Language isolate.
01:31:14 <\oren\> a lot of language isolates around there, huh
01:31:42 <pikhq> Quite plausibly the isolates are "just" so distantly related it's hard to demonstrate a connection.
01:31:47 <boily> perhaps some day in the Far Future we'll be set about all these languages...
01:31:59 <pikhq> ... But, then, if they're related they're so distantly related we can't tell. :)
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01:34:37 <\oren\> I should start figuring out how to generate hangul. I think I'll be generating them in BDF format
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01:48:11 <boily> halp. I relapsed into drug abuse.
01:48:16 <boily> (namely minecraft.)
01:51:33 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Oh, phew. You had me worried for a second xD
01:53:53 <hppavilion[1]> My grapher looks REALLY cool when you enter "x sin abs; x cos abs; 0 x sin abs -; 0 x cos abs -;"
01:54:20 <boily> there's one thing I'm physically addicted to: coffee.
01:54:20 <hppavilion[1]> (That's RPN if you spend too long trying to figure out what monstrosity I created where you can treat - as a number)
01:55:43 <boily> are you mostly mormon?
01:55:47 <hppavilion[1]> I jsut entered "x tan abs" and now tangent makes sense to me.
01:56:17 <hppavilion[1]> Statistically, yes, given that alaska seems to have a higher-than-average concentration of mormons, but I'm not a mormon personally.
01:59:12 <hppavilion[1]> Something like "\x GRPHVAR := <rpnexp> GRAPH" should do
02:01:24 <hppavilion[1]> [| <rpnexp> |] GRAPH perhaps? The x is pushed onto the stack before evaluating the block the result is popped off?
02:03:55 <hppavilion[1]> x sin x 5 / sin x 5 * sin x 10 / sin x 10 * sin + + + + abs
02:04:14 <hppavilion[1]> You can make any trigonometric equation look cooler by adding "abs" to the end, unless it's always > 0
02:05:56 <hppavilion[1]> Forgot that I'm exclusively using RPN right now xD
02:06:23 <FireFly> I've never really used a postfix calculator or language a lot, so I guess it's just not part of my mental model
02:07:31 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: I'm making a whole language intended for use in Postfix
02:08:42 <FireFly> So, a concatenative language then
02:11:07 <FireFly> Reminds me of that blog post, "why concatenative languages matter". it's a good read
02:11:19 <hppavilion[1]> It's almost 100% postfix instructions; the only parsing done after lexing (other than comments) is blocking code
02:11:35 <boily> sometimes, haskell feels very concatenative. especially when using arrows.
02:12:26 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: ... why
02:13:03 <hppavilion[1]> Need to be able to easily access elements like I can in python, else I can't wrap my head around it xD
02:13:42 <coppro> hppavilion[1]: what do you *actually* want out of your data structure? std::list doesn't support random access out-of-the-box because it's an O(n) operation
02:14:26 <coppro> std::next can do it with a bit more work
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02:23:33 <quintopia> what is the most concatenative of functional concatenatives?
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03:02:51 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6TQ44rigEc
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04:03:55 <oerjan> `` echo '*tsjørp*' >canary
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05:18:39 <oerjan> huh i thought last girl genius comic it looked a bit like her
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05:27:37 <oerjan> hm after this i wonder if my wild theory that higgs could be a jäger might be correct...
05:28:49 <oerjan> just one that doesn't look like a monster
05:30:00 <oerjan> because if jenka can look that human then someone else might look even more so.
05:31:14 <oerjan> i wonder if "many faces" means she's actually a shapeshifter
05:31:41 <oerjan> probably not, then she wouldn't have needed to hide her face before.
05:42:47 <oerjan> (and here i had thought it was because it was particularly hideous...)
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05:46:49 <oren> woudl it be better to draw hangul in one stroke width only, or vary the stroke width depending on the complexity of the character?
05:49:44 <oren> for kanji, I did the latter : 人 has thicker strokes than 談
05:52:30 <lifthrasiir> oren: I think hangul syllable is denser in y axis than in x axis, so I would prefer the former in terms of consistency
05:53:11 <coppro> do the dense ones first
05:53:18 <coppro> and then see how the sparse ones look
05:53:33 <oerjan> ...maybe higgs is the spymaster.
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06:11:42 <\oren\> I'm now working on a program in C to generate hangul as a BDF fragment. Then, I'll manually put the fragment into the BDF for my font
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06:40:59 <oerjan> did you accidentally an rm
06:42:14 <\oren\> no, but my hangul are, uh, not working
06:42:59 <\oren\> I must be messing up my BDF somehow
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09:35:22 <b_jonas> \oren\: you're working on hangul too? great!
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10:08:48 <b_jonas> Is Claire's hair strange, or is it just drawn strange, in today's http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3110
10:23:18 <fizzie> I thought it was just a new hairstyle. It was a bit like that two days ago too. Though the first panel looks weirder.
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10:49:31 <mroman> I still don't get how "bubble pumps" work
10:50:00 <mroman> Is cold water heavier than warm water?
10:52:30 <mroman> it's probably less dense at least
10:53:12 <mroman> you heat up the water which creates vapor in it
10:53:17 <mroman> that decreases the density
10:53:38 <mroman> and the pressure from the cold water is thus more forcing the hot water/water vapor mix up the tube?
11:35:30 <fizzie> The density isn't monotonic with temperature, even when you're in liquid phase.
11:35:53 <fizzie> I seem to recall the densest point is something like 4 degrees.
11:36:07 <fizzie> http://linkingweatherandclimate.com/ocean/waterdensity.php random graph
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11:36:46 <fizzie> Above that point you'll have cold water denser than warm water.
11:37:42 <fizzie> (I don't know anything about bubble pumps, this was just a comment on the density.)
11:40:23 <boily> . o O ( you are my density )
11:40:56 <mroman> technically under swiss laws my blog post about GOT would be illegal :(
11:41:25 <mroman> publicicly disclosing security vulnerabilites would be illegal as well.
11:43:50 <fizzie> Meanwhile in the UK, we've (I'm not sure I can already call it "we", I don't feel very UK-ian) got https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_Communications_Data_Bill coming.
11:45:06 <fizzie> Or the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_Investigatory_Powers_Bill rather.
11:46:05 <fizzie> The Global Offset Table.
11:46:20 <fizzie> I think I saw chatter on it on-channel.
11:46:20 <bender|> lol, I thought this was some offtopic channel
11:46:30 <fizzie> You're not far wrong there.
12:05:48 <boily> bellonder|. have I asked you your approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh?
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12:54:32 <tswett> mroman: from reading the Wikipedia article about bubble pumps, I don't see anything about heating.
12:56:19 <b_jonas> fungot: what are bellonder|'s approximate geographical coordinates and body ewight
12:56:19 <fungot> b_jonas: what the hell was that? my, that is a smart mouth you have. it plays a role in the outcome of the kids' game session.
12:56:37 <b_jonas> fungot: with peanut butter?
12:56:37 <fungot> b_jonas: you have a great appreciation for the fine arts. you use the hammer and nails. they will come a day
12:58:21 <tswett> mroman: ah, I just watched this one about how a coffee maker works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j4Q_YBRJEI
13:00:21 <tswett> I think in that video, the pressure from the cold water reservoir is irrelevant because the valve is closed when water is spewing out of the pump... at least, some of the time.
13:01:10 <tswett> My best guess is that what's happening is that the heating element boils some of the water at the bottom, which causes it to expand greatly, and this expansion pushes water out of the top of the pump.
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13:50:13 <b_jonas> Why is Soothing Balm a white instant that gains life with art depicting two humans, rather than a red creature with an ability to bite?
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14:04:12 <mroman> tswett: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_percolator#/media/File:Coffee_Percolator_Cutaway_Diagram.svg
14:04:24 <mroman> which doesn't seem to have a valve that blocks in one direction?
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14:49:13 <\oren\> Emily is a great computer scientist
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14:51:40 <\oren\> FireFly: I am referring to todays QC
14:53:59 <b_jonas> \oren\: Emily and Tai are done great, it's Claire's hair that seems unusual to me. Is it messed up, or drawn bad, or what?
14:55:28 <\oren\> I think the artist changed his method of drawing hair to a more mangaesque style. Look at Penelope's hair in recent comics
14:58:10 <\oren\> however, wavy hair is not common in manga, given that pretty much all japanese people have straight black hair. so it makes sense that wavy hiar draw in such a style would look weird
14:58:59 <b_jonas> \oren\: that's possible. thanks for the explanation.
14:59:39 <b_jonas> that could also explain why Tai's hair looks strange in http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3108
15:00:02 <\oren\> the change started at about 3104
15:00:51 <b_jonas> In fact, now I look at it, Hannelore's hair looks unusual as well in http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3106 , only I didn't notice it because Hannelore is very easy to recognize even without her hair shape
15:01:38 <b_jonas> Somehow many of the characters of QC don't look distinct enough to me.
15:01:50 <b_jonas> But maybe it's just that there are too many of them.
15:02:08 <b_jonas> Distinct in appearance that is.
15:02:16 <b_jonas> They do have consistent and distinct personalities.
15:02:54 <b_jonas> And maybe there's also that they've changed in style a lot since the comic started, because Jeph learnt to draw well.
15:04:00 <b_jonas> http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/comic/millie/comic?n=20080616 is a great illustration about that, although Dana's style didn't change as much as Jeph's
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15:13:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DUCK]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45835&oldid=45828 * Hurricane996 * (+5)
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16:12:40 <HackEgo> U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER \ UTF-8: ef bf bd UTF-16BE: fffd Decimal: � \ � \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
16:27:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:3var]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45836&oldid=45653 * 205.236.81.253 * (-20) /* Extensions */
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16:53:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Spoon]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45837&oldid=31336 * Chris Pressey * (+60) /* External resources */ www.bluedust.dontexist.com dontexist
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17:24:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Retina]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45838&oldid=44563 * Mbomb007 * (+54) online interpreter
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17:53:25 <quintopia> ooh a new online interpreter for retina
18:03:06 <FireFly> retina, was that the .NET regex thing?
18:03:44 <FireFly> Oh. I apparently somehow glossed over the HackEgo link
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20:49:16 <zzo38> I am making many more Magic: the Gathering cards in the computer; I have written them on the paper and now I will put them into the computer. That is generally how I do, when I am not near the computer.
20:52:40 <b_jonas> zzo38: by the way, have you looked at ais523's thesis? http://etheses.bham.ac.uk/6120/1/Smith15PhD.pdf
20:53:20 <shachaf> All that work for nothing.
20:53:29 <shachaf> I should apologize to ais523.
20:54:05 <hppavilion[1]> [| 3 * |] 1 [] :: 2 \ :: 3 \ :: |-> gets [3, 6, 9]
20:55:26 <b_jonas> zzo38: he's explained that it looks so bad mostly because of some stupid formatting requirements by the university. so I asked whether he will later make a version that looks better but doesn't try to conform those requirements.
20:55:49 <b_jonas> zzo38: also, have you looked at oren's and lifthr*'s font?
20:55:51 <hppavilion[1]> It creates a block (anonymous function) that pushes 3 and multiplies the top 2 items on the stack when called, then pushes 1, pushes an empty list, concatenates, repeats
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20:56:27 <hppavilion[1]> Should I add some syntactic sugar so lists can be written more easily? [ 1, 2, 3 ] equivalent to 1 [] :: 2 \ :: 3 \ :: ?
20:57:17 <hppavilion[1]> It'd a be a bit of a pain, but it might be worth it
20:57:39 <hppavilion[1]> (If you're wondering why :: is cons instead of :, it's because : is laconic DUP)
20:58:23 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: why would I wonder? standard ML has : and :: backwards compared to Haskell
20:58:43 <b_jonas> ie. in haskell : is cons and :: is type restriction, whereas in standard ML, :: is cons and : is type restriction
20:59:23 <hppavilion[1]> So it isn't even backwards, it's entirely unrelated
20:59:44 <zzo38> Why are the lowercase Greek alphabets slanted to left?
21:00:07 <b_jonas> zzo38: slanted to the left? what?
21:00:42 <b_jonas> zzo38: I thoguht they were ordinary italic greek letters, only taken from computer modern which slightly clashes with the latin letters in the formulas which are from Times
21:00:54 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: I've no idea, because I don't know what your language is like
21:01:04 <hppavilion[1]> (Now that I think about it, it'd be kind of difficult to implement with nesting lists)
21:01:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: they might look like slanted to the left compared to the italic latin letters
21:01:54 <hppavilion[1]> I should go through the docs and decide which ones I can make lightweight
21:02:26 <b_jonas> zzo38: I was more bothered that they're wider, and have bigger serifs, that's how cm always looks next to times to me
21:02:48 <zzo38> No, they are slanted to the left compared with straight letters and punctuation
21:03:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: wait, are you talking about the lower case or the upper case greek letters?
21:03:23 <b_jonas> zzo38: which page and which letter in particular?
21:03:29 <b_jonas> because I don't see them that way
21:03:59 <zzo38> But if you need to use Computer Modern fonts together with Times you could program a new Computer Modern font with parameters design to be compatible with it
21:04:38 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, but the difficulty with that is that it's processed with the ordinary TeX engine so you need a TeX font metric for it
21:04:48 <b_jonas> it would look nice, but I admit it's not trivial to do
21:05:20 <b_jonas> the theta and gamma in the formulas definitely look to me like they're slanted to the right
21:05:28 <b_jonas> just like italic letters in formulas should
21:05:42 <b_jonas> they're just slanted a bit less than the italic latin letters
21:05:51 <zzo38> On my computer all of the lowercase Greek letters in that document (and only the lowercase Greek letters) are slanted to the left.
21:06:10 <b_jonas> zzo38: that's strange. are you looking at the pdf version?
21:06:21 <zzo38> That is the version you linked, isn't it?
21:06:34 <b_jonas> no, I linked a html page from which you can download that
21:06:42 <zzo38> But I am using Firefox to view it and not Adobe
21:07:08 <zzo38> No you linked http://etheses.bham.ac.uk/6120/1/Smith15PhD.pdf it is the PDF
21:07:09 <b_jonas> I looked at it with okular, which uses a modified xpdf engine
21:07:33 <b_jonas> I didn't try to look at it with adobe or firefox or chrome yet
21:08:28 <zzo38> (I don't even have Adobe on this computer; the only other program I have to view PDF is Ghostscript and I have not tried that one yet)
21:08:39 <b_jonas> Well, this sounds strange. You'll have ot bring it up with ais523 I think.
21:09:18 <b_jonas> I mean, I can render to images to show what I'm seeing, but that won't help you debug this.
21:15:14 <zzo38> I may also write a SQL program to convert my cards.txt file into a SQL database (but keeping the text version too and using the text version as the main version to edit); and then even such thing can be done with the SQL version including user comments, random selected, etc
21:15:14 <hppavilion[1]> x x * 150 / x sin + x 10 * sin + extra wavy parabola
21:16:26 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: does it do parameteric plots? plot an archimedean spiral, then animated Lissajous curves with the angle offset varying by time!
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21:16:47 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Haven't implemented parametric things yet, not sure if I can
21:16:51 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: 1 x / sin, the topologist's sine.
21:17:41 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: do it! Lissajous curves are funny, eg. http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=621188
21:17:46 <hppavilion[1]> What other functions should I mess with? Anything fun outside Trig?
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21:17:56 <hppavilion[1]> Perhaps I should implement the Hyperbolic Trigonometric Functions?
21:19:03 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: implement everything. it shouldn't be hard, if you're not writing the implementation, just using existing functions from a C or C++ library that work on machine doubles, right?
21:19:40 <hppavilion[1]> x 5 %; x 10 %; x 15 %; x 20 %; x 25 %; x 30 %; x 35 %; x 40 %; x 45 %; x 50 %
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21:22:08 <b_jonas> I mean, sure, { + - * / < == <= != min max floor ceil rint trunc sqrt sin cos atan exp log frexp ldexp } are IMO the most important, but it doesn't cost much to add other numeric functions, right?
21:22:26 <b_jonas> you have a sqrt builtin, right?
21:23:04 <b_jonas> a useful language should have those
21:23:12 <b_jonas> some sort of variables also help
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21:23:38 <b_jonas> but since I don't know your current state of your language, or your goals, it's hard to say anything.
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21:32:45 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Oh, the grapher is a different program (for now) that also happens to be stack based
21:33:22 <hppavilion[1]> min, max, floor, and ceil are the only ones I don't have, plus the relationals because it's for graphing and relationals usually are boolean
21:37:36 <hppavilion[1]> What is the vertical log? Like how Parabolas are the vertical sqrt?
21:40:33 <Melvar> @check \x => log (exp x) = x
21:40:33 <lambdabot> <unknown>.hs: 1: 4:Parse error: =>
21:40:41 <Melvar> @check \x -> log (exp x) = x
21:40:41 <lambdabot> <unknown>.hs: 1: 19:Parse error: =
21:40:46 <Melvar> @check \x -> log (exp x) == x
21:40:48 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 5 tests and 1074 shrinks):
21:42:37 <hppavilion[1]> Melvar: NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
21:43:03 <hppavilion[1]> That is pretty bad. Which is why I prefer to store all data in reducible algebraic objects.
21:43:19 <Melvar> @check \x -> (log (exp x) - x) / x > 0.00001
21:43:20 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test):
21:44:10 <Melvar> @check \(Nonzero x) -> (log (exp x) - x) / x > 0.00001
21:44:12 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor ‘Nonzero’
21:44:12 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant ‘NonZero’ (imported from Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Tru...
21:44:40 <Melvar> @check \(NonZero x) -> (log (exp x) - x) / x > 0.00001
21:44:42 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test and 1084 shrinks):
21:44:42 <lambdabot> NonZero {getNonZero = -0.8879352820856286}
21:45:28 <Melvar> Man I am just derping around here.
21:45:52 <Melvar> @check \(NonZero x) -> abs ((log (exp x) - x) / x) < 0.00001
21:45:54 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 41 tests and 11 shrinks):
21:45:54 <lambdabot> NonZero {getNonZero = -7963.282355550385}
21:46:26 <Melvar> @check \(NonZero x) -> abs ((log (exp x) - x) / x) < 0.0001
21:46:28 <lambdabot> *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 28 tests and 8 shrinks):
21:46:28 <lambdabot> NonZero {getNonZero = -907.4096946139496}
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22:47:08 <HackEgo> footnote 8/Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes?
22:47:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: footnote: not found
22:47:34 <HackEgo> Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes?
22:47:48 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: footnote: not found
22:48:02 <shachaf> `mkx bin/footnote//cat "wisdom/footnote $1"
22:48:12 <boily> hppavellon[1]. Spoiler: it's the only remaining footnote, last of its line hth
22:48:34 <HackEgo> cat: wisdom/footnote 1000: No such file or directory
22:48:37 <boily> hellochaf. thachaf.
22:48:45 <shachaf> Every time HackEgo writes that message it messes up my terminal.
22:49:05 <shachaf> Also it's kind of annoying to write commands that you know are going to fail in a public channel.
22:49:14 <shachaf> At least a bunch of them in a row.
22:50:27 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: THe second `footnote was because I forgot I'd sent hte first `footnote, and I was checking if there were any other ones hidden
22:51:00 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn headnote 1/Headnotes are boring. Let's go fly kites!
22:51:35 <HackEgo> cat "$(find evil -type f | shuf -n1)" | tr '[:lower:]' '[:upper:]'
22:51:49 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
22:53:45 <boily> "GLARE AT A PANDA"
22:53:53 <hppavilion[1]> "TURN AN UNWILLING MAN INTO A WEAPONIZED CYBORG IN ORDER TO WIN A CIVIL WAR THAT HAS BEEN RAGING FOR YEARS"
22:58:41 <hppavilion[1]> A neural net with special CS related nodes (e.g. a queue node instead of any normal node)
23:01:34 <hppavilion[1]> I like stacky langs because you can just join two programs with a space and essentially combine them into a new program bourne of both
23:01:50 <hppavilion[1]> Perhaps stack-based languages would be good for Evolutionary Programming because of that
23:03:18 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:03:22 * hppavilion[1] probably just discovered something that's been studied for the last 15 billion years (note the age of the universe in comparison)
23:05:01 <boily> Push Down Automatons?
23:05:17 <boily> the Universe is big. there are multiple things in it.
23:05:57 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: is this trying to be an essentially stack-based language that tries to hide that by some syntactic sugar, like Slang?
23:06:15 <b_jonas> that Slang => http://www.jedsoft.org/slang/
23:06:39 <b_jonas> and by stack-based, I mean something between postscript and forth
23:07:05 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: It is not; the [ ... ] syntactic sugar is because making a list via consing and swapping is incredibly hard to read.
23:07:54 <hppavilion[1]> But yes, it is stack (or more accurately, deque)-based. Very much so.
23:10:16 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: in that case, why don't you just add a ] operator like in postscript, which isn't syntactic sugar?
23:11:39 <b_jonas> postscript has a stack with synamically typed entries, the [ operator pushes a special value called a mark, and the ] operator finds the topmost mark value on the stack and makes an array from everything up to that, popping those values and the mark
23:12:13 <hppavilion[1]> The current way you make a list (consitently) is "[] <item1> \ :: <item2> \ :: <item3> \ :: ... <itemn> \ ::", which builds a list in the order of the items
23:12:15 <b_jonas> midn you, postscript also has curly braces which are special syntax (not ordinary operators you could define) and make a literal array, sort of like quote in scheme/lisp
23:12:53 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: well sure, you want multiple array functions, ] isn't the only function that builds an array
23:13:09 <HackEgo> forty means "in a fort-like manner"
23:13:16 <hppavilion[1]> I'll have to think about what symbol to use though
23:13:35 <b_jonas> postscript also has mutable arrays with fixed size, like scheme, so you can make an array of a particular size and later modify entries by index
23:13:37 <hppavilion[1]> The brackets [, ], [|, and |] are all taken, and I want something typable
23:14:03 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: mark and array ?
23:14:07 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I believe that is wrong; wouldn't that be fortily?
23:14:11 <b_jonas> why does it have to be puncutation?
23:14:48 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Pretty much. [a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z0-9_] names just get pushed and you have to call them with `
23:15:43 <b_jonas> postscript has some strange brackets too. ( ) makes string literals, [ and ] are operators, but there's also iirc < > << >> [[ ]] and more
23:16:20 <hppavilion[1]> << >> < > are shifts and comparisons, respectively in my langauge
23:17:25 <boily> b_jonas: PDF definitely has <<>>. weird things happen in PDFs.
23:17:31 <b_jonas> < > makes string from hex encoding, <~ ~> makes string from base85 encoding (postscript files often encode font data and other data this way, although late enough versions of postscript can technically also have binary stuff in it)
23:17:57 <boily> hppavilion[1]: how dare you doubt the correctness of the wisdom, eh?
23:18:18 <b_jonas> << >> construct dictionaries from the stack the same way as [ and ] construct arrays
23:18:49 <b_jonas> ok, that's not actually that many strange brackets
23:19:10 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Mine uses [| and |] to delimit code blocks.
23:19:37 <boily> so far, nobody seems to use 【】.
23:20:28 <hppavilion[1]> [| : `even \ 3 % 0 = | |] <list> |-? filters out numbers divisible by either 2 or 3
23:21:08 <fizzie> Forth has [ and ] as normal (well, mostly normal) words too, though they don't do anything to the stack -- [ enters interpretation state, and ] enters compilation state, so that you can stick in literals in your compiled word -- like the definitions : foo 2 2 + ; and : foo' [ 2 2 + ] literal ; quite similar, but for the latter there'll be a literal 4 in the definition of foo'.
23:21:26 <boily> sqornshellous? a nut with a tough shell that can't be cracked by squirrels?
23:21:37 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn Brontosaurus/A brontosaurus is an ancient mythological creature. They were well known for having mapoles for teeth.
23:21:59 <b_jonas> boily: no. it's a planet mentioned in HHGG or something like that
23:22:53 <HackEgo> imaginary unit? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:23:15 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn imaginary unit/The imaginary unit is what you get when you take the square root of love
23:24:01 <HackEgo> ¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:24:03 <int-e> hmm, grep says the mattresses come from Squornshellous Zeta
23:24:32 <fizzie> `forth : foo 2 2 + ; : foo' [ 2 2 + ]L ; foo . foo' . see foo see foo'
23:24:33 <HackEgo> 4 4 \ : foo \ 2 2 + ; \ : foo' \ 4 ;
23:24:50 <int-e> so I guess Squ. is actually a star.
23:25:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45839&oldid=45815 * Luis Mendo * (+2) /* Compiler */
23:25:51 <hppavilion[1]> Because you weren't thinking very clearly when you created the universe and you drained most of your power doing so. Now, you're stuck with some CMD bullshit, and not even a Unix CMD.
23:27:05 <Sgeo> CMD makes me think of cmd.exe which is terrible
23:27:51 <Sgeo> Supposedly Windows 10's cmd is decent, haven't switched to 10 yet though
23:28:22 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo: Do you like the idea of God Mode Command Line?
23:29:31 <Sgeo> I was going to comment about how my response was going to make me look like a technophobe because language recognition weirds me out, but command line parsing is simpler than that
23:30:17 <int-e> `` echo wisdom/*footnote*
23:30:29 <HackEgo> Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes?
23:30:44 <int-e> I knew there was a footnote :)
23:30:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45840&oldid=45839 * Luis Mendo * (+478) /* Specification */
23:31:12 * Sgeo replaces int-e with isize-e
23:33:32 <hppavilion[1]> (Increase gravity to 2.3 times the standard gravitational energy)
23:34:35 <Sgeo> Have a script that lets web users set gravity to any value. Don't bother escaping the arguments or using an API that accepts anything other than a string to make command line calls
23:34:56 <int-e> . o O ( Sseleno, hmm )
23:35:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45841&oldid=45840 * Luis Mendo * (-36) /* Hello, world! */
23:36:44 <int-e> solve cube - why bother, you already know how to do it in 20 or fewer moves...
23:39:38 <int-e> we all love bobby tables
23:39:52 <Sgeo> Make a web page that, when you submit a form, does "setPhysics gravity $blah" where $blah is the data from the form. Don't do anything that prevents users from doing things other than setting gravity.
23:40:48 <int-e> (Bobby Tables: https://xkcd.com/327/ )
23:41:13 <fizzie> intmax_t-e, the biggest (signed) int-e of them all.
23:41:44 <int-e> but etymologically that's wrong
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23:44:30 <hppavilion[1]> I was going to make the game force you to play from a command line shell
23:47:25 <hppavilion[1]> Why don't programming languages allow 0q-prefixed integers I wonder...
23:48:36 <hppavilion[1]> How about a crowdsourced calculator? Basically, a big neural network would be employed and people can teach it operations
23:55:17 <fizzie> Allowing 0b for binary isn't all that ubiquitous either. C doesn't.
23:56:22 <hppavilion[1]> Should I use a neural network or some other form of machine learning?
23:56:43 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: ooh, ooh.
23:56:48 <hppavilion[1]> I don't want it to be /too/ accurate, but I want it to give occasional wacky results and accept weird input
23:57:04 <tswett> I have an idea (completely unrelated to what you're currently talking about).
23:57:09 <hppavilion[1]> So you could call the crazy operation (See: Malbolge) on "walrus" and True
23:57:38 <tswett> A "double stack programming language". It's an esoteric programming language that simply consists of two sub-languages.
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23:58:02 <tswett> Each of the sub-languages describes a push-down automaton, so it only has access to a finite amount of storage plus a stack.
23:58:11 <tswett> But the two sub-languages are totally different.
23:58:37 <tswett> If you have one stack, that can't be Turing-complete. If you have two stacks, you can.
23:59:13 <tswett> So in order to do useful stuff, you have to get the two languages to cooperate with each other.
23:59:17 <hppavilion[1]> How about a language designed to start holy wars whenever the topic of its computational class comes up?