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00:44:02 <HackEgo> hello/hello hello hello, what's all this then?
00:44:17 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: host: not found
00:44:21 <HackEgo> vector space/A vector space is just a module over a field.
00:44:22 <HackEgo> madness/madness lies thataway.
00:44:33 <HackEgo> Failed to connect to socket 2. \ \ curl: (52) Empty reply from server
00:44:43 <HackEgo> :-( \ (* \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ butwhatifichangesomething \ canary \ cat \ close \ *) \ Complaints.mp3 \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ ibin \ interps \ le \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
00:45:03 <tswett> I'm kinda surprised that the Pascal comment is still there.
00:45:51 <oerjan> bohily. straight into my top ten list of serendipitous one-letter misreadings goes http://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/blogs/behind-the-scenes/2014/03/26/how-a-seaweed-scientist-helped-win-the-war?fromGateway=true
00:45:58 <HackEgo> Complaints file lacks file extension making it look like a directory. Which is confusing \ The above complaint looks like an error message, but it's actually a complaint \ now the former complaints make no sense because the complaints file was moved \ The complaints above are not using periods properly.
00:47:20 <shachaf> oerjan: where is the rest of the list twh
00:49:02 <shachaf> the top ten list that you referred to in your previous line of irc
00:49:43 <shachaf> http://www.textfiles.com/underconstruction/
00:49:49 <oerjan> `` grep -i pascal wisdom/*
00:49:53 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ Binary file wisdom/reflection matches
00:50:06 <oerjan> `` grep -i pascal quotes
00:50:14 <oerjan> tswett: WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
00:51:40 <tswett> `run echo "All of the complaints are about the complaints file itself." >> Complaints.mp3
00:52:10 <oerjan> tswett: that's not how you file a complaint hth
00:52:26 <oerjan> `complain Some people don't use the right command for filing complaints.
00:52:28 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
00:52:29 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input "$@" >> Complaints.mp3; echo Complaint filed. Thank you.
00:52:42 <tswett> `run type print_args_or_input
00:52:43 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input is /hackenv/bin/print_args_or_input
00:52:47 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found
00:53:01 <shachaf> oerjan: do you file complaints with `file complaints twh
00:53:37 <tswett> /topic children each children each children
00:53:57 <boily> all men in each men ♪
00:54:16 <tswett> It's a quote from this expression I came up with.
00:54:29 <tswett> The Quendle expression for getting all of Bob's great-grandchildren:
00:54:38 <tswett> People[name="Bob"].children each children each children
00:54:48 <oerjan> is this some of what happened when the logs were down
00:55:44 <hppavilion[1]> A series of extremely focused and limited DSLs, all following a general pattern, to teach people about different facets of programming
00:56:01 <tswett> I think that's an interesting idea.
00:56:02 <hppavilion[1]> Someone immersed the hard drive in water for too long
00:57:35 <boily> hppavellon[1]. to down: to be unavailable. to drown: to also be unavailable.
00:58:19 <boily> hmm... projarsers? parsect?
00:58:48 <hppavilion[1]> For learning about different facets of programming, etc.
00:58:50 <tswett> Don't ask me. It took me, like, a couple of hours to figure out what to call my query language.
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00:59:00 <tswett> Have I told you guys about my query language? Let me give you an example query.
00:59:09 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: You just have to choose 1 letter. That's all it takes.
00:59:25 <boily> tswellott. did you call it languery?
00:59:29 <tswett> This query is for getting all of the great-grandchildren of the person named Bob. The language is called Quendle.
00:59:34 <tswett> People[name="Bob"].children each children each children
01:00:53 <boily> your time is weird hth
01:02:04 <boily> Très Douce Ton Oubliette Œuvrée d'Hippopotames?
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01:03:33 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: are you in... UTC?
01:04:00 <tswett> Ah, right. Wrong direction.
01:04:15 <tswett> The UTC would have been 23:54:37.
01:04:42 <hppavilion[1]> What types of languages do I have to add to my facets-of-programming thing?
01:04:45 <lambdabot> Local time for tswett is Thu Dec 17 01:04:45 2015
01:05:20 <tswett> We're outside DST right now, so I'm in UTC-5, not UTC-4.
01:05:30 <hppavilion[1]> Probably, at least Markup, Stylesheet, Imperative, Functional, Logic, and Query
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01:08:12 <Taneb> I mean, that's why we're all speaking English, right? Because it's an esoteric spoken language, and hence on topic in here?
01:08:58 <boily> what would be considered the esotericest conlang?
01:09:33 <mauris> arguably any of the artsy ones
01:11:43 <mauris> natural languages, and regular programming languages exist to make *something* easier for *someone*. but "art" conlangs, like esolangs, exist just because they're neat
01:12:54 <mauris> boily: ohh, Ithkuil is obviously the esotericest
01:13:11 <mauris> i hope you don't know about it because then you get to learn about it
01:13:56 <mauris> Both nominal and verbal formatives are inflected to one of the possible 3 stems, 3 patterns, 2 designations (formal or informal), 9 configurations, 4 affiliations, 4 perspectives, 6 extensions, 2 foci, 4 contexts, 2 essences, and 81 cases; formatives also can take on some of the 153 affixes, which are further qualified into one of 9 degrees.
01:14:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45901&oldid=45879 * Rottytooth * (+1917) /* Instructions */ add pure folders syntax
01:15:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45902&oldid=45901 * Rottytooth * (+1) /* Commands */
01:15:10 <boily> yes, I know about ithkuil :D
01:15:32 <boily> have you ever read http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/12/24/utopian-for-beginners ?
01:15:33 <shachaf> mauris: are there any secrets for constructing minimal acyclic DFAs?
01:15:55 <hppavilion[1]> A TRUE esolang born from the failure that was LolCode
01:16:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Rottytooth * uploaded "[[File:PureFolders HelloWorld.png]]": Folders Hello World not using folder names
01:16:58 <mauris> shachaf: i think i can answer your question with a "yes" but that's only because i googled it :[ RIP the illusion that i am some kind of automata expert
01:17:16 <shachaf> well if you found it via a quick google search then it's hardly a secret, is it
01:17:17 <boily> hppavilion[1]: as long as there are diæresises in it, I'm fine ^^
01:18:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45904&oldid=45902 * Rottytooth * (+35) /* Examples */ added second Hello World
01:18:30 <shachaf> mauris: didn't you teach people about automata?
01:18:49 <mauris> (otoh: if there was a secret way and i knew it, i wouldn't tell you!!)
01:19:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45905&oldid=45904 * Rottytooth * (+5) /* Hello World */ fixed image
01:19:09 <shachaf> well i'd keep the secret so it'd still be secret
01:19:30 <mauris> nah, not really; i helped out with some practical stuff and wrote a bunch of exam questions for the people actually teaching the course
01:19:51 <hppavilion[1]> Now I need to figure out how to make an esoteric lolcode
01:20:07 <mauris> i didn't venture far out of Hopcroft's book (and we never even finished it, boo)
01:20:07 <shachaf> anyway how should i construct a minimal acyclic dfa
01:20:18 <shachaf> and is it really much better than a prefix tree anyway
01:20:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Rottytooth * uploaded a new version of "[[File:PureFolders HelloWorld.png]]": Folders Hello World not using folder names
01:20:33 <shachaf> also is there a radix tree version
01:20:47 <mauris> it looks like reading this thingy carefully http://www.aclweb.org/anthology/J00-1002 is a popular solution
01:21:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45907&oldid=45905 * Rottytooth * (-1) /* Instructions */
01:21:14 <mauris> i can't believe people use "for ... rof" in pseudocode examples, oh my goddd
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01:22:36 <shachaf> func ... cnuf is a new one
01:24:01 <mauris> i need this paper to end with its own title in reverse
01:24:33 <mauris> also here is a juicy secret:
01:25:01 <mauris> i like this \usepackage{mathpazo} look so much more than the default latex look
01:25:38 <mauris> i don't see it nearly often enough!! computer modern is so boring and palatino is so readable ;_;
01:26:04 <shachaf> i assume mathpazo is a variant of gazpacho
01:27:24 <shachaf> is there a standard measure of how far off a DAG is from a tree?
01:27:42 <shachaf> for example if you turned the dag into a tree by duplicating a bunch of nodes, how many nodes would you need to add
01:28:03 <boily> mauris: stop being me. I always use \userpackage[sc]{mathpazo} (and \linespread{1.05}).
01:28:38 <mauris> boily: haha, excellent
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01:29:41 <boily> re the Wisdom PDF. it uses that, along with Vietnamese and Greek oddities.
01:29:44 <mauris> i'm not picky about linespread. i do, however, dislike the \parindent style of marking paragraph starts, and end up replacing it with vertical spacing most of the time i make documents for myself, oops
01:30:53 <mauris> (apparently that's a big "don't" in the world of, i dunno, writing papers in latex? but that's how everyone does it! and it's so easy on my eyes)
01:31:07 <mauris> (everyone as in. web pages)
01:31:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45908&oldid=45907 * Rottytooth * (+588) FoldersOS
01:31:40 <mauris> it is totally heresy though
01:33:10 <mauris> further latexpinions: \usepackage{cmbright} actually looks decent! there's something weirdly relaxing about sans-serif equations. and AMS Euler looks fffff horrible bad
01:34:11 <boily> that's like, your typeset opinion, dude.
01:34:13 <mauris> i mean https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/AMS_Euler_sample_math.svg/800px-AMS_Euler_sample_math.svg.png <--- look at that "i sin y", jeez
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01:39:37 <boily> `relcome triggerwarning
01:39:39 <HackEgo> triggerwarning: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:41:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Rottytooth * uploaded a new version of "[[File:PureFolders HelloWorld.png]]": Reverted to version as of 01:16, 17 December 2015
01:43:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45910&oldid=45908 * Rottytooth * (+3) /* Hello World */
01:44:16 <HackEgo> odtizurcoin wolrcoin archwacoin arbabticlcoin camcoin musiancoin backcoin befuchcoin oafedouccoin fracticcoin boozlecoin purecoin um-32coin sortcoin revicoin concoin calcoin 1221coin dumbergineecoin thisccoin
01:44:30 <boily> ah, nothing like a paragraphful of colours.
01:46:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45911&oldid=45910 * Rottytooth * (+5) /* Hello World */
01:47:26 <FireFly> It's interesting, I can't decide if I like it though
01:48:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45912&oldid=45911 * Rottytooth * (-7) /* Hello World */
01:49:08 <FireFly> Fontwise, my go-to serif font is Linux Libertine
01:49:38 <FireFly> Although the font used in the wisdom pdf is quite nice
01:50:35 <FireFly> mauris: I think I prefer spacing over indent to separate paragraphs too, but I've slowly grown used to indent
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01:54:12 <HackEgo> dc is short for "dump core". (try it out yourself: dc -e '[')
01:54:18 <FireFly> it's not a bug; it's a feature
01:54:21 <\oren\> why would it segfault?
01:54:53 <FireFly> Well, not officially documented as far as I know
01:55:21 <FireFly> \oren\: [foo] pushes a string foo. I guess it tries to read outside the string
01:55:28 <HackEgo> dc (GNU bc 1.06.95) 1.3.95 \ \ Copyright 1994, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2005, 2006 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, \ to the extent permitted by law.
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01:57:30 <boily> FireFly: FirelloFly. fyi, it's Palatino hth.
01:58:13 <\oren\> argh i forgot how to get C quoates in bash
01:58:26 <lifthrasiir> also, it seems that bash shallows \0 anywqy
01:58:40 <FireFly> Could make a C program and exec I guess
01:58:59 <lifthrasiir> (of course, even after it passes through bash, dc probably won't accept that)
01:59:15 <FireFly> I think the idea was to test that, lifthrasiir
01:59:32 <\oren\> well it didn't segfault
01:59:52 <\oren\> `` dc -e \[$'\0asdf'\]p
01:59:53 <FireFly> Well, if it's just fed [] because bash disregards the null..
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02:00:05 <\oren\> `` dc -e \[$'asdf\0'\]p
02:00:14 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: well, I think `printf '[\0]p' | dc` would be correct
02:00:38 <FireFly> `` printf '[\0]p' | hexdump -C
02:00:39 <HackEgo> 00000000 5b 00 5d 70 |[.]p| \ 00000004
02:01:04 <FireFly> `` printf '[a\0b]p' | dc | hexdump -C
02:01:05 <HackEgo> 00000000 61 00 62 0a |a.b.| \ 00000004
02:01:23 <\oren\> `` dc -e \[$'\0'\]p | xxd
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02:01:50 <\oren\> apparently dc uses asciz internally
02:02:04 <\oren\> `` dc -e \[$'foo\0bar'\]p | xxd
02:03:02 <HackEgo> \\\¯\\\\\\\(\\\°\\\_\\\o\\\)\\\/\\\¯\\\?\\\ \\\¯\\\\\\\(\\\°\\\_\\\o\\\)\\\/\\\¯
02:06:03 <lambdabot> CYYZ 170100Z 12011G17KT 15SM FEW021 BKN140 BKN250 05/03 A2979 RMK SC2AS3CI2 SLP095
02:06:21 <lambdabot> ESSB 170150Z AUTO 17003KT 9999 OVC012/// M01/M03 Q1018
02:08:10 <HackEgo> Braid theory is the extremely twisted theory of braids.
02:09:28 <FireFly> `learn Bride theory is a theory involving headhunters who dress in yellow
02:09:30 <HackEgo> Learned 'bride': Bride theory is a theory involving headhunters who dress in yellow
02:10:10 <FireFly> `le/rn Bride theory/Bride theory is a theory involving a headhunter who dresses in yellow
02:10:18 <HackEgo> Bride theory is a theory involving a headhunter who dresses in yellow
02:10:25 <FireFly> I didn't mess that up, good
02:11:00 <FireFly> `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/'bride theory'
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02:13:10 <FireFly> boily: I would like to report a misformatting in the 'category theory' entry in the pdf
02:14:39 <boily> also, did I add you to the cocoonspirators?
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02:15:34 <FireFly> I don't know, probably not
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02:16:19 <FireFly> Hm, maybe it isn't a misformatting
02:17:09 <boily> do you have a github account?
02:17:20 <FireFly> The issue is that 'In', 'The' etc are boldface even when they aren't part of the entry's name, but if it uses the description environment I guess it's tricky to do something about that
02:18:37 <boily> you now have full commit access to the Thing.
02:18:58 <boily> it's tricky, and some people in this fine chännel like to pose a challenge.
02:19:03 * boily looks askew at oerjan
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02:25:23 <oerjan> i'll just point out that a few days after i finally got a github account, my computer's hard drive started breaking. this is clearly a bad omen telling that it's not good to press such issues hth
02:25:43 <boily> hellœrjan. that goes without saying. it's common sense.
02:26:28 <oerjan> i'm only gradually starting to trust the new one. it still occasionally makes clicking sounds when windows is doing stuff in the background.
02:27:18 <FireFly> `` ? catamorphism | sed 's/catamorphism/\x02&\x0F/'
02:27:23 <HackEgo> A catamorphism is when you recurse too greedily and too deep.
02:27:50 <boily> an interesting idea.
02:28:13 <boily> oerjan: close windows in the background. zenify your computer. the machine that does none, does all.
02:28:43 <oerjan> boily: i've sometimes done that.
02:29:47 <HackEgo> Holy water is water made by boiling the hell out of Spain.
02:29:55 * FireFly would like to note that Hell is located in Norway, not Spain
02:30:42 <oerjan> `learn Bottom is where you might end up with a catamorphism, if not careful. There be balrogs.
02:30:44 <HackEgo> Learned 'bottom': Bottom is where you might end up with a catamorphism, if not careful. There be balrogs.
02:31:17 <oerjan> `learn Balrogs live at the bottom of the world.
02:31:20 <HackEgo> Learned 'balrog': Balrogs live at the bottom of the world.
02:31:36 <boily> `` culprits wisdom/holy\ water
02:31:54 <boily> how many HP is a balrog worth?
02:32:02 <oerjan> FireFly: just a few minutes east of here, in fact.
02:32:19 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/**: No such file or directory
02:32:23 <HackEgo> Your famous evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
02:33:06 <FireFly> oerjan: clearly your approximate coördinates are 'hell', then
02:36:51 <oerjan> it's technically a different municipality. i don't think it even borders trondheim directly.
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02:37:20 <oerjan> in fact it's a different county, but they're working to fix that.
02:38:30 <lifthrasiir> He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. -> I want a special casing in ? to randomize that word.
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02:39:08 <FireFly> `` shuf -n 1 /usr/share/dict/words
02:39:09 <HackEgo> shuf: /usr/share/dict/words: No such file or directory
02:39:13 <boily> perhaps it's a noooooooooooooodl word? amoooooooooooooortized.
02:39:39 <boily> or a szoup word? amortisszed.
02:39:42 <oerjan> that google doodle of beethoven in the search results looks rather hellish
02:40:30 <lambdabot> CYUL 170200Z 10006KT 15SM OVC023 01/M03 A3008 RMK SC8 SLP191
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02:41:00 <FireFly> `learn ARIN is the American Registry for Internet Numbers. Or a pastebin service; one of the two.
02:41:02 <HackEgo> Learned 'arin': ARIN is the American Registry for Internet Numbers. Or a pastebin service; one of the two.
02:41:52 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: um if you randomize it how can i then look it up when i forget it ;_;
02:41:53 <FireFly> The intended reading might be the italian word for herring, but that doesn't prevent me from reading it as ARIN every time
02:42:05 <FireFly> oerjan: easy, just put it in `? amortized instead
02:42:50 * oerjan swats FireFly -----###
02:43:09 <FireFly> I can only offer you solutions
02:43:18 <FireFly> It's not my fault if you're not happy with them
02:45:31 <FireFly> `le/rn swatter/The swatter is a tool for punishment commonly found in #esoteric.
02:46:22 <FireFly> `le/rn swatter/The swatter is a tool for punishment commonly found in #esoteric. Not to be confused with the saucepan or mapoles.
02:46:59 <FireFly> Although a sweater might also be a tool for punishment, especially if it's particularly warm outside
02:47:32 * oerjan swats FireFly for not using `learn when appropriate.
02:47:54 <shachaf> I guess you might've meant outside the sweater.
02:48:04 <FireFly> I didn't realise it would take care of the article
02:48:13 <HackEgo> the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
02:48:35 <shachaf> FireFly: `learn is practically a journalist.
02:49:06 <FireFly> `learn thé is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in the Commonwealth.
02:49:08 <HackEgo> Learned 'thé': thé is an oddly-spelled hot beverage popular in the Commonwealth.
02:49:54 <FireFly> `` sed -i 's/^t/T/ wisdom/thé
02:49:55 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
02:50:00 <FireFly> `` sed -i 's/^t/T/' wisdom/thé
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02:53:31 <FireFly> `culprits wisdom/shiasdayviaerqjjjjjjjj
03:09:30 <oerjan> `? shiasdayviaerqjjjjjjjj
03:09:31 <HackEgo> shiasdayviaerqjjjjjjjj is the reason why the USA don't use the metric system.
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03:55:02 <oerjan> . o O ( PIZZIFIED CHICKEN )
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04:27:55 <FreeFull> In Prolog, a single = is enough
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06:23:09 <lifthrasiir> my thought process today is greatly slowed down due to the lack of a lunch nap
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09:14:35 <HackEgo> Learned '1*1': 1*1 is two.
09:18:43 <mroman> I propose that sqrt(2) doesn't even exist anyway
09:19:08 <mroman> The greeks have known that for centuries now!
09:19:18 <mroman> But we're still told it's something around 1.4...
09:23:06 <mroman> fungot: What's your point on terryology?
09:23:06 <fungot> mroman: besides emacs? :) ( but dont' take my word for it
09:23:12 <mroman> fungot: besides emacs, yes
09:23:20 <mroman> stop the emacs fetishism
09:23:27 <HackEgo> emacs is the weird brother of nano.
09:27:31 <HackEgo> vi is in a relationship with emacs.
09:36:49 <lifthrasiir> `learn vim equals to approximately ccxxxviin.
09:36:51 <HackEgo> Learned 'vim': vim equals to approximately ccxxxviin.
09:37:36 <lifthrasiir> I don't know how to write fractions in roman numerals
09:39:09 <mroman> they had these 1/12 system?
09:41:31 <lifthrasiir> "1/72 sextula, sextulae (1/6 of an uncia), represented by a reversed S (𐆓)."
09:43:35 <mroman> they should have just used the hexadecimal system
09:43:39 <b_jonas> oerjan: RR means blackboard black R in ascii notation, as in the set of reals
09:43:44 <b_jonas> oerjan: and why is it false?
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10:11:20 <oerjan> b_jonas: because e.g. the boundary of a circle is itself.
10:12:07 <oerjan> or even a single point
10:13:04 <oerjan> (inspired by lifthrasiir way above)
10:15:02 <\oren\> reversed s? that's a G with a horn!
10:15:16 <HackEgo> [U+0193 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G WITH HOOK]
10:16:50 <oerjan> fizzie: no Gregor either
10:18:02 <\oren\> oh, it's my terminal again with the supernal plane characters
10:18:42 <oerjan> b_jonas: basically any closed set with empty interior is its own boundary.
10:20:16 <fizzie> \oren\: Oh, I completely misinterpreted your comment, took it to mean "a G with a horn could be used as an inverted S".
10:20:55 <fizzie> I mean, it's *kind* of true, in the sense that the shape is something a little bit like that, but not really.
10:21:12 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, but those sets are also null sets, due to this result, are they not?
10:21:33 <oerjan> b_jonas: i told you, a single point in R^n is such a set.
10:22:06 <oerjan> as is a circle, and any sane curve...
10:22:34 <b_jonas> Yes, the boundary of a single point in R^n (for n >= 1) is itself, and it's a null set in the n dimensional Lebesgue-measure sense.
10:22:56 <oerjan> i read that as null = empty.
10:23:10 <oerjan> still false though: any non-null cantor set.
10:23:35 <b_jonas> oerjan: um, more precisely? which of those has a non-null boundary?
10:23:49 <oerjan> well they are also their own boundary.
10:24:15 <b_jonas> maybe, but which Cantor set in particular?
10:24:23 <b_jonas> there's too many of them called that
10:25:55 <oerjan> the one where you remove a middle part of a line, then a middle part of each of the remainders, then a middle part of each remainder of _those_ etc. the trick is that if you make the fraction you remove shrink fast enough the result won't have measure 0.
10:26:27 <b_jonas> oerjan: but if you do that, then won't the boundary be smaller?
10:27:57 <b_jonas> you might be right actually. thanks.
10:28:52 <oerjan> b_jonas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith%E2%80%93Volterra%E2%80%93Cantor_set
10:29:14 <fizzie> "you might be right actually" -- heady praise indeed.
10:29:58 <oerjan> well these kind of sets _were_ central to my phd, so i ought to know.
10:32:17 <oerjan> "This makes the Smith–Volterra–Cantor set an example of a closed set whose boundary has positive Lebesgue measure."
10:32:31 <oerjan> fizzie: i'd say the evidence is pretty strong.
10:32:35 <b_jonas> Yes, that set must be all boundary.
10:34:41 <oerjan> b_jonas: that article has several comments directly relevant to your question.
10:35:40 <\oren\> hmm cygwin terminal doesn't have the problem
10:38:38 * oerjan learns of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denjoy%E2%80%93Riesz_theorem
10:39:07 <oerjan> so you can in fact make an example that is a simple closed curve.
10:40:24 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osgood_curve
10:55:04 <oerjan> wow that was added only 4 days ago
10:55:40 <oerjan> david eppstein is the shit
11:13:40 <mroman> Is that the guy from Eppstein-Bar?
11:15:33 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, but (a) that curve thing would be a bit going over the top, and (b) is it even closed in the plane?
11:18:40 <b_jonas> oerjan: the apropos of why this discussion is started is that someone brought up one of those calculus exercises where the statement sounds very simple and elementary, but suggested using more powerful calculus tools to solve it.
11:19:20 <b_jonas> It led a bit far because I tried to understand it and find a proof on my own, but I'm not too good at calculus so I failed so far.
11:19:40 <oerjan> b_jonas: pretty sure the curve thing will be closed if the removed wedges are open
11:20:47 <oerjan> mroman: no that would be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_A._Epstein
11:21:07 <b_jonas> oerjan: if you remove wedges, then it will be closed, but in that case it might be bigger than the curve's image
11:21:18 <b_jonas> oerjan: that can be fine for what I asked, mind you, but then I won't call it a curve
11:22:23 <oerjan> i don't think it will, i think the way the set is constructed every point in it gets a curve parameter by simply reading out a binary expansion
11:22:35 <oerjan> so the curve is exactly the set
11:23:35 <oerjan> it is pretty clear that the triangles converge down to points
11:23:37 <b_jonas> That's possible, but I don't say I see it, and you have to be careful with the construction if you want all that stuff.
11:25:02 <b_jonas> Hmm, so every triangle is dissected to two parts that touch in only one point, and are far everywhere else?
11:25:25 <oerjan> i think the fact that the triangle diameters go to 0 is all you need to show that the curve = everything.
11:25:54 <b_jonas> Yes, that sounds plausible.
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11:50:10 <lambdabot> CYYZ 171100Z 15004KT 15SM FEW060 SCT095 06/05 A2967 RMK SC1AC3 SLP054
11:50:14 <lambdabot> CYUL 171137Z 36005KT 15SM BKN110 BKN240 01/M00 A2985 RMK AC7CI1 CI TR SLP110
11:50:48 <boily> I wonder if we'll get snow before the end of the year.
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12:44:02 <lambdabot> EGLL 171220Z AUTO 20009KT 160V250 9999 NCD 15/09 Q1015 NOSIG
12:44:13 <fizzie> I don't think we'll be getting snow before the end of the year.
12:44:49 <lambdabot> LOWI 171220Z 28003KT 230V320 9999 FEW015 SCT300 09/06 Q1029 NOSIG
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13:20:40 <izabera> https://imgur.com/gallery/PpkHmPg HAHAHA
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14:29:12 <b_jonas> fungot, is amethist a flower or a gemstone?
14:29:12 <fungot> b_jonas: improper lists are fnord to use that xslt and such?
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14:29:24 <b_jonas> fungot: in how many forms of communication are you fluent?
14:29:24 <fungot> b_jonas: or the love of...
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15:18:56 <FireFly> it even follows the melody
15:19:11 <mroman> is id f = reverse . reverse $ f an identity morphism?
15:22:11 <int-e> > let xs = 1:undefined in (head xs, head . reverse . reverse $ xs)
15:23:02 <mroman> identity morphisms are unique
15:23:57 <b_jonas> mroman: no way. the reverse of an infinite list is bottom
15:24:35 <b_jonas> so (reverse . reverse) can't be the same
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15:45:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Folders]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45913&oldid=45912 * Rottytooth * (+55) /* Examples */ making examples more clear
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19:30:24 <izabera> in italy a mayor wrote road signs in his town, saying "town with an occidental culture, and deep christian tradition. who's not willing to respect our local culture and tradition is asked to leave"
19:33:53 <izabera> http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/no-islam-signs-raised-italian-village-pontoglio-urging-muslims-adapt-leave-1533828 <- for real
19:34:46 <izabera> oh occidental isn't the right word, western is more appropriate
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22:55:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MATL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45914&oldid=45892 * Luis Mendo * (+6) /* Language specification and compiler */
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23:21:43 <HackEgo> this sentence/This sentence was not invented by Taneb. Taneb invented it.
23:23:35 <HackEgo> sweden/Sweden is the suburb capital of Norway. It's where all the Nobel prizes are announced, except the Math Prize.
23:23:54 <HackEgo> Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced.
23:25:59 <FireFly> Did you know that märket not only contains a country border, but also a county border on the Swedish side?
23:26:23 <olsner> oh, I thought it was just market with ümläüts
23:26:45 <olsner> well, when boily said it, not when you said it
23:28:16 <boily> FirelloFly, hellolsner.
23:28:47 <boily> the county border is a little bit preposterous.
23:37:55 <olsner> if the island was inhabited, they could've been competing for county tax
23:38:13 <boily> what's a county tax?
23:38:26 <FireFly> a tax that applies to residents within a county
23:39:07 <olsner> almost all the tax is county tax actually, until you make a "lot" of money and qualify for state tax
23:39:37 <shachaf> boily: It's a tax that involves counting.
23:40:28 * boily thwacks shachaf "one, ha ha ha"; thwack "two, ha ha ha"
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