00:00:46 -!- a_kragmas_tree has changed nick to kragniz. 00:08:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:20:45 -!- Tat-Tvam-Asi has joined. 00:23:46 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 00:27:46 is there difference between cause and effect? 00:28:07 cause causes effect, effect doesn't effect cause 00:31:07 izabera> but are they different?.. are they two object different? or are they onlyone 00:32:17 cause is the reason an effect occurs 01:02:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:04:44 -!- Tat-Tvam-Asi has quit (Quit: Saliendo). 01:10:44 -!- sat-buddhi has joined. 01:17:44 `? photograph 01:17:45 A photograph is a device for creating photograms. 01:18:26 :) 01:20:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:53:32 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to Enronnd. 02:00:35 -!- AlexR42 has joined. 02:08:30 -!- sat-buddhi has quit (Quit: Saliendo). 02:33:30 -!- jaboja has joined. 03:06:17 -!- Enronnd has changed nick to Elronnd. 03:18:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:25:20 -!- jaboja has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:25:57 -!- jaboja has joined. 03:27:57 -!- jaboja has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:29:06 -!- jaboja has joined. 03:38:56 -!- andrew has joined. 03:54:20 At least I'm on my computer again 03:54:34 finally 04:52:06 How would characters of the level20.tex to compare with colors of mana of Magic: the Gathering? 04:55:47 -!- andrew has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:56:14 -!- andrew has joined. 05:00:33 -!- jaboja64 has joined. 05:03:20 -!- hppavilion[wc] has joined. 05:03:33 Ugh 05:03:40 HexChat's broken 05:03:47 It keeps crashing when I launch the main application 05:04:24 I don't know the problem 05:04:25 -!- dcentral has joined. 05:04:38 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:04:39 In other news, there's a new data type I'd like to see languages implementing, and thus will be including in the TypeMaker/TypeFactory/Factory stdlib most likely 05:04:46 The "fuzz" 05:05:43 Basically, a fuzz of bitwidth w is equal to, with the unsigned integer n that its encoding represents, n/2**w 05:06:06 So basically, is is used for representing values in fuzzy logic or members of fuzzy sets 05:11:44 Is that similar to the numeric data type in Kvikkalkul? 05:12:09 zzo38: Haven't heard of that type nor that language 05:15:10 In Kvikkalkul it is signed with one's complement, although it seems similar. 05:25:52 -!- andrew has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:31:28 -!- jaboja64 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:45:08 zzo38: Oh, no, it isn't quite like kivikkalkul 05:45:51 The type has a minimum value of 0 and a maximum of 1; essentially, it's fixed point with the decimal point at the very beginning 05:46:34 On a completetly unrelated note, I need detailed (but understandable) informtion on the exact behavior of Floating Point on machines for my language 06:06:15 -!- hppavilion[wc] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:27:53 hp..dangit 06:28:01 @tell hppavilion[wc] http://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatConverter/IEEE754.html 06:28:01 Consider it noted. 06:31:27 I probably should have tried to learn Hebrew BEFORE my trip to Israel 06:31:56 The first time I showed up there I didn't speak any Hebrew. 06:32:02 I did fine. 06:35:22 holy shit 06:35:24 perl 6 released 06:35:32 Merry Christmas! 06:50:44 the official version is 6.c (Christmas) 06:52:57 -!- hppavilion[wc] has joined. 06:54:54 wait, perl6 was released? 06:54:56 woot! 06:55:33 Ugh, but my OS's pkg repos haven't upgraded yet 06:55:37 I'll do it manually 07:06:21 Well, perl 6 itself was released 07:06:42 Rakudo also had a release, but it doesn't claim to implent Perl 6 100% correctly. 07:15:53 "Rakudo"? 08:52:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:01:29 -!- hppavilion[wc] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 09:20:09 Basically, a fuzz of bitwidth w is equal to, with the unsigned integer n that its encoding represents, n/2**w <-- i think that doesn't include 1, which may be a bit awkward. also, i'd call that a probability. 09:20:22 hppavilion[1]: But n/2**w isn't quite doing that 09:20:46 zzo38: I think I got my order of operations right 09:20:50 So what's the problem? 09:20:52 (Also, I already said it isn't the same; the type in kvikkalkul is signed and yours is unsigned so that is already different) 09:21:02 The same problem oerjan mentioned 09:21:24 zzo38: Ah 09:21:41 Of course, in addition, it's nothing like kvikkalkul's numeric IIRC 09:22:02 n/2**w-1 might work 09:22:04 Something such as n/(2**w+1) has the correct range but may result with strange calculations. 09:22:09 I mean 2**w-1 09:22:12 Like you said 09:22:28 Just hope that w!=0 09:22:40 (2**0-1=1-1=0) 09:23:19 i think conflating 0 and 1 is inevitable if you have 0 bits 09:23:32 so it all works out. 09:23:43 oerjan: Fair enough 09:24:00 I do mean n/(2**w+1) but it might make multiplication more difficult? 09:24:00 So your only option would be 0/0, I suppose 09:24:23 zzo38: no, you do mean - 09:24:50 * oerjan is pretty sure 09:24:54 So the `void fuzz` type is equal to all real numbers. And complex ones, probably 09:25:31 just call it the tao. which is incidentally also equal to tau. 09:25:35 Because, from the standpoint of what happens when you graph it, 0/0 is equal to all possible slopes 09:25:58 oerjan: In my MathLISP math.constants library I included pi, tau, and pau 09:26:15 (and e and stuff, of course. But that's not really important) 09:26:32 I would like to propose we stop using the constant "e" and start using "j" 09:26:40 j=12e 09:27:29 Wait, no, h 09:28:03 WAIT, no, k 09:28:35 because k is the pos('e')*12%25+1th letter of the alphabet 09:29:23 hppavilion[1]: j is already taken by the engineers as a synonym for i. 09:29:36 oerjan: Yes, for some strange reason 09:29:45 Do they use i for something else 09:29:58 Jesus, mathematicians should probably speak Mandarin 09:30:01 well, current, but i think that's capitalized. 09:30:20 oerjan: Unlike your use of the word "I" 09:30:39 I FAIL TO SEE THE PROBLEM 09:30:42 xD 09:31:17 Would've been funnIer If you capItalIzed everythIng /except/ "I" in that sentence 09:33:04 I probably should have tried to learn Hebrew BEFORE my trip to Israel <-- i hear it takes 10 years to get proficient enough to read a newspaper, or something like that. 09:33:41 tOo lAtE NoW. 09:36:11 oerjan: took me less than that hth 09:36:15 mandarin/hebrew deathmatch: which has the worst writing system? 09:36:28 shachaf: DON'T RUIN SCIENCE WITH YOUR FACTS 09:36:39 hebrew's writing system is pretty simple 09:36:55 s/writing/reading/ 09:37:34 in mandarin, the writing tells you more than the pronunciation does. in hebrew, less. 09:38:08 if you're confused about a word you can look it up letter by letter in a dictionary 09:38:14 seems p. simple to me 09:38:36 that doesn't help when you're confused about which grammatical form it is, and they're written the same. 09:38:50 (of course mandarin cheats by not having grammatical forms) 09:39:49 i guess it is kind of complicated sometimes 09:40:08 do you have an example of the sort of thing you mean twh 09:40:35 all i know is that most of the inflections are in the vowels, which are not written hth 09:40:51 (what, you expect me to know hebrew? or mandarin for that matter.) 09:41:01 mandarin mandarout 09:42:18 oerjan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ktiv_hasar_niqqud yo 09:48:39 hppavilion[1], 09:48:55 Hi Sgeo! 09:48:58 http://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatConverter/IEEE754.html 09:48:59 You're back! 09:49:45 hppavilion[1], but in parents' house, with no easy access to a shower, and completely unable to execute my old routine 09:49:57 And the constant possibility of seeing my step-mom 09:50:08 That sucks :/ 09:50:11 I ssume 09:50:14 So I don't feel back. I feel like I just left a pleasant vacation and into an unpleasant one 09:50:14 *assume 09:50:32 I'm making a top-down shooter :) 09:51:06 I got the world renderer working (well, one of them. There'll be two: A text-based one and a super-leet gzip'd JSON one) 09:52:11 oerjan: Yes I do mean - but I am tired at this time and make mistakes 09:52:40 Sometimes I make a lot of mistakes. I certainly do mean - but sometimes I type something else by mistake 09:53:30 okay 09:55:35 shachaf: ok i guess mandarin wins, then. 09:56:10 a chinese friend told me i should learn mandarin tdnh 09:56:49 shachaf: ask him about the sesame credit 09:57:13 i am curious about it being the stuff youtube said 09:57:38 her 09:57:47 i wonder how gendered it is 09:58:05 maybe i should just learn finnish 09:58:26 what for? 09:58:28 hän 10:00:00 shachaf: From my year and a half of after school mandarin, I can tell you they beat english by having a gender-neutral pronoun. Really, ONLY a gender neutral pronoun. 10:00:38 To angelicize it, Tah shir wah'd mae-mae means "(s)he is my little sister" 10:01:03 So it's also better in that there isn't a special possessive for yourself, it's just me's 10:01:39 well, being better than english is not that hard 10:01:58 I should invent, and then learn, a spoken language based on Combinatory Logic 10:02:12 lojban 10:02:28 well, not combinatory 10:02:36 but predicates 10:02:36 myname: True. But "being better than english" is still a pretty big step in being a not-entirely-shit language 10:02:44 myname: Yeah. 10:03:09 How would you say "she kicked the bucket" in Combinese? 10:03:38 (Spoken language based on Semi-Thue Systems, or Turing Machines. Lulz.) 10:03:50 i actually like french way more than english. i nearly don't speak a word in it, though 10:03:54 -!- sat-buddhi has joined. 10:04:10 "From now on, when I use the string 'horse' it is to be interpretted as 'HEIL SATAN'" 10:04:32 and vice versa 10:04:40 Kicked Bucket She perhaps? 10:04:55 oh look, that HEIL SATAN broke a leg 10:04:56 Kick-did bucket she? 10:05:15 `welcome sat-buddhi 10:05:21 sat-buddhi: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 10:05:40 why are there so for relcomes these days? 10:05:41 My Little HEIL SATAN, My Little HEIL SATAN, ah-ah-ah-ah... 10:06:14 hppavilion[1]: stop that, i'm trying to unconfuse sat-buddhi about what this channel is about 10:06:26 pony isn't the same as horse 10:06:41 oerjan: it's about nerds 10:06:45 Note that the Semi-Thue System language is based on meaning rather than on literal representation 10:07:34 myname: also, it's because of the relcome haters 10:07:50 :o 10:08:04 they've subdued us 10:08:20 strange people 10:08:25 with their powerful frowns 10:08:30 Would it be acceptable to document esoteric non-programming languages on the wiki? 10:08:44 good question 10:08:52 hppavilion[1]: i'm gonna make an executive decision: no. 10:09:02 For example, a language designed to be spoken or a markup language 10:09:07 oerjan: Why? 10:09:18 well, for spoken. markup could pass. 10:09:43 there's afaik a conlang community. 10:09:47 oerjan: Dammit, now we need a sister wiki for spoken languages xD 10:09:58 oerjan: But they don't have a beautiful wiki like we do 10:10:00 (i used to subscribe to their list.) 10:10:14 Also, what if it was a spoken language that is deeply rooted in CS? 10:10:25 For example, the aforementioned Combinatory Logic Spoken Language 10:10:31 i guess the conlang wiki is not intended for fun stuff? 10:12:47 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:12:53 Technically, it's called an "esolang", not an "esoproglang", so... 10:13:05 * oerjan spots wikia and recoils 10:13:31 Not to mention that any spoken language can, in theory, be understood by a computer 10:13:41 Some more easily than others 10:13:53 "in theory" 10:13:57 (See: English (on the wiki)) 10:14:24 oerjan: One could argue that that technically makes any language to which a meaning can be assigned a programming language 10:15:03 i am not sure if arguing is the best thing you can do here 10:15:17 hppavilion[1]: stop pouring oil on our slopes 10:15:24 In fact, the only language to which meaning /can't/ be assigned is a single-string language 10:15:50 oerjan: xD 10:44:43 -!- sat-buddhi has quit (Quit: Saliendo). 10:55:39 -!- Welo has joined. 10:57:52 wait, what? you can use the 1/2 sign in perl6 to get a 0.5? 11:13:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:24:45 [wiki] [[Magicard!]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45996&oldid=45664 * LegionMammal978 * (+24) 12:29:55 -!- vodkode has joined. 12:43:54 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 12:49:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:34:40 -!- mauris has joined. 13:35:58 -!- AlexR42 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 13:39:12 -!- helyx has joined. 13:40:05 !zjoust helyx_FightAndFlight (>)*8+(<)*7 ((-)*13>(+)*13>)*4(([-{([+{[-]}])%8}])%4>)*21 13:40:06 helyx.helyx_FightAndFlight: points -14.14, score 11.08, rank 47/47 13:41:01 -!- AlexR42 has joined. 13:41:02 !zjoust test < 13:41:02 oerjan.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 13:41:18 i guess it's not pessimal 13:41:21 !zjoust test . 13:41:21 oerjan.test: points -33.14, score 3.04, rank 47/47 (--) 13:45:04 -!- boily has joined. 13:50:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 13:51:00 -!- helyx has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:57:06 fungot: ghuuuuuurgh. 13:57:06 boily: write is a function of 1 argument. what is tlo? or is that death? 13:57:40 fungot: write is a function of one argument. what's a tlo? a Three Letter Optimisation? death is too much tourtière. 14:02:22 -!- AlexR42 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 14:13:55 -!- arararara has joined. 14:15:12 in what language shall thou spell to bring freebsd to work? >inb4 enochian or brainfuck 14:15:27 xD 14:17:12 -!- arararara has quit (Client Quit). 14:18:55 eh? 14:21:58 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:23:52 `? program 14:24:04 A program is an image created by means of prography. 14:51:20 `wisdom 14:51:22 lie bracket/Politicians try to stay within the lie bracket: Not so many lies that voters cannot stand it, but not so few that they think you have nothing to give them. 15:14:46 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:15:50 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DOMINATING CHICKEN). 16:42:15 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:43:59 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:51:10 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:54:19 -!- trn has joined. 18:13:42 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:24:30 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 18:38:14 -!- sat-buddhi has joined. 19:02:43 -!- boily has joined. 19:12:32 `wisdom 19:12:37 1*1/1*1 is two. 19:12:52 `` culprits wisdom/1\*1 19:12:56 mroman 19:13:06 @tell mroman I mapole you. 19:13:06 Consider it noted. 19:13:35 @tell mroman (with great force and momentum, might I add.) 19:13:35 Consider it noted. 19:13:41 @tell mroman (tsé.) 19:13:41 Consider it noted. 19:16:31 `wisdom 19:16:32 page/The smallest floating-point number is known as pages. Fungot discovered it. 19:20:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WANDERING CHICKEN). 19:53:14 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:04:14 -!- ^v has joined. 20:13:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:15:49 I just had an amazing idea for an improved legal system 20:16:52 Consider the following: Formal logic is, largely, based on assumptions called "axioms" that are turned into "theorems" through "proofs"- you take the axioms and laws, put them together, and you get something that must be true 20:17:54 For example, if you have the axioms T->a, a->b and the law of syllogism, you can derive that T->b, and therefor b. 20:18:22 In law, we have "higher law" which is a base set of rules that it is against the rules to break. 20:18:51 We also have "[lower] laws", which are also rules that you can't break, but aren't assumed at the beginning necessarily 20:19:29 In a way, axioms correspond to higher laws and theorems to lower laws 20:19:49 I am going to call this the Jefferson-Howard Correspondence, just because it sounds funny 20:20:21 However, one (though not the necessarily the only) major thing is different about the way logic and laws work is this: 20:21:31 In normal formal logic, theorems are derived from axioms. In "legal logic", which is what I'm calling the formalization of law, theorems come out of thin air and apply if and only if they do not contradict with the axioms 20:23:21 So in Legal Logic (which might already be a thing, but I doubt it), from the axiom set `A={a}` one can derive the thorem `b` because `~b /<< A` (where ~ is logical NOT and /<< is IS NOT AN ITEM OF) 20:23:55 Which leads to lots of issues, because you can pretty much derive anything 20:24:07 Which leads to my idea for an improved legal system 20:24:51 What if, instead of having higher law and lower law which higher law must not contradict, we had a (larger) set of higher law axioms, and any lower law established must be derived from these axioms 20:27:02 There would, of course, be a process to add higher law, but it would take much longer and be more difficult, and would include a 5-year period in which government-employed mathematicians must test it for consistency with the new axiom (not really sure how consistency works, but if it's possible to prove consistency, that would pretty much be the goal), and at the end of which it must be voted on by the population. 20:28:09 The constitution of this theoretical nation would, of course, include all axioms both in english (though this would have no real legal standing) and in a Formal Logic 20:30:50 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:32:49 hppavilion[1]: see also my thesis "The propositional nomic" 20:33:01 it's in the agora archives somewhere 20:33:24 coppro: It's the first result when I google it 20:33:29 On pastebin 20:36:11 By syllogism, one can derive the Curry-Jefferson correspondence, and thus prove that all Computer Scientists are really just lawyers who type a random mix of symbols 20:40:28 -!- sat-buddhi has quit (Quit: Saliendo). 20:44:14 coppro: ⊼ is good for NAND hth, though I think that the just-now made up symbol !∧, ~∧, or ¬∧ is the best IMHO, because it expresses that it is "NOT AND" 20:45:18 Which one you use depends on which symbol you use for NOT, of course, though you could certainly use a different prefix to the operator for clarity (e.g. ¬ for NOT but ~∧ for AND, such as to more clearly distinguish them) 20:46:35 Use of | for NAND is just confusing for computer scientists. My system only requires that you memorize the symbols for AND, OR, and the three possibilities for NOT 20:48:24 And XOR, I suppose. ⊻ works for XOR, but if it is the only modified AND or OR used in the expression, it gets confusing due to line location 20:49:54 Also, of course, ->, which the inverse for could probably be written as any of -/>, ~->, !->, ¬->, or even ~> 20:52:57 coppro: In any good game of Nomic, `|{p|(p ∈ P) ∧ A(p)}| = i` hth 20:59:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:02:39 -!- Welo has joined. 21:07:35 [wiki] [[RFOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45997&oldid=45994 * 78.52.138.216 * (-3) /* Example Code */ 21:08:42 [wiki] [[RFOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45998&oldid=45997 * 78.52.138.216 * (-1) cleanup 21:16:56 [wiki] [[Subskin]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45999&oldid=20080 * 78.52.138.216 * (+8) /* Examples */ 21:21:47 -!- MDude has joined. 21:44:41 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:29:10 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:05:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:12:58 Consecrated Sphinx, Notion Thief, Donate on Notion Thief, Chromatic Sphere, Krosan Grip on Chromatic Sphere, and then activate Chromatic Sphere in response. It is now difficult for opponent to win at this game. 23:32:52 If you have a complex Bernstein polynomial f(z) and then you want to draw the curve bounded by: (f(z)+i|f'(z)|/f'(z)) and (f(z)-i|f'(z)|/f'(z)) then can it be optimized? 23:39:25 http://www.ginostuscany.com/ 23:39:45 How does this manage to be half decent (not fully decent though) when it's made by http://www.somelikeithotproductions.com/ 23:43:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:46:11 hppavilion[1], did my floating point link help? 23:49:02 -!- Vrittis has joined. 23:56:23 Sgeo: I believe so 23:56:31 Given two points represented as 2-tuples a and b, how can I calculate a direction r (in degrees) such that an entity centered at a facing in direction r is pointing towards point b? 23:57:54 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atan2 23:58:26 atan2(b-a) 23:59:19 Oh, that's traditionally radians, so * 180/PI