< 1453162182 890602 :LexiciScriptor!~LexiciScr@net-37-117-99-184.cust.vodafonedsl.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1453163061 494864 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Al Dente14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46224&oldid=42774 5* 0350.161.94.113 5* (+145) 10 < 1453163165 219365 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Al Dente14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46225&oldid=46224 5* 0350.161.94.113 5* (+23) 10 < 1453163660 47573 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1453163866 397558 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Al Dente14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46226&oldid=46225 5* 0350.161.94.113 5* (+200) 10 < 1453163894 302809 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1453164167 482210 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Al Dente14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46227&oldid=42356 5* 0350.161.94.113 5* (+1) 10BNF doesn't support the repetition operator, but EBNF does. < 1453164465 152573 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Al Dente examples14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46228&oldid=41776 5* 0350.161.94.113 5* (+448) 10Addition? Sounds good. < 1453164602 539310 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03LexiciScriptor 5* 10New user account < 1453165142 410503 :LexiciScriptor!~LexiciScr@net-37-117-99-184.cust.vodafonedsl.it QUIT :Quit: LexiciScriptor < 1453165928 884738 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Main Page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46229&oldid=41016 5* 0350.161.94.113 5* (+98) 10/* Someone should change the featured language. */ new section < 1453166034 786141 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1453166265 144450 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Minebit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46230&oldid=46162 5* 0350.161.94.113 5* (+42) 10Adding categories cuz why not. < 1453167188 908455 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1453167496 570205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so I'm reading about the debate about what the archipelago which includes Great Britain, Ireland, and a number of smaller islands shoud be called < 1453167529 330133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Wikipedia article mentions that using the Roman term would be inappropriate because it also includes various other places, such as "Thule" < 1453167550 791825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading about Thule, though, implies that it's a historical name for some landmass in the northwest of Europe but nobody's quite sure which one < 1453167581 576532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apparently the leading theory is that was a misidentification of Norway as an island) < 1453167626 379953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to be verging into the field of esogeography < 1453167634 552444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm sure is something that hppavilion[1] will invent given enough time < 1453167654 908617 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It probably is < 1453167703 629735 :bender|!~benderpc@2404:e800:e61a:41d:c81d:7bf9:c63:3e4e JOIN :#esoteric < 1453167767 866170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently even in the historical record, there was a lot of scepticism about exactly where Thule was; the geography of northern Europe wasn't well understood in those days < 1453167936 304043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the obvious theory here is that everyone who attempted to go there ended up somewhere different from each other, and that's what causes the contradictory evidence < 1453167959 719617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "various places in northwest europe, north of great britain" ended up being mistakenly merged into one general geographical concept < 1453168520 188870 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1453168737 429522 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am writing the document "Magic: the Puzzling: Codex" anyone who works with the puzzling should mention anything that needs to be mentioned in case I forget, so that I will not make a mistake. < 1453168920 929153 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1453168978 641337 :andrew!~andrew@14.154.165.212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1453169566 553494 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1453169930 143303 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: create a GUI where the entire image displayed has to be an analytic function. < 1453169957 476076 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, you probably don't know what an analytic function is. Lemme give a terse intuitive explanation. < 1453170024 638333 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most everyday mathematical functions are analytic: addition, multiplication, exponentiation, trigonometric functions, logarithms, radicals and whatnot... < 1453170106 451770 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Analytic functions have a cool property: given just one little piece of an analytic function (say, the sine function from 0.037 to 0.038), you can, theoretically, figure out the entire function... or, well, at least a lot of it. < 1453170122 184672 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piecewise functions, however, are, in general, not analytic. < 1453170130 877828 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can almost think of "analytic" as meaning "not piecewise"! < 1453170148 171631 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that's not particularly accurate. < 1453170186 153497 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, people who program for this GUI wouldn't be able to say "I want this to be black for x < 50 and white for x > 50". That's a piecewise function; you can't do that. < 1453170255 503495 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have to somehow build it out of multiplication and so forth. < 1453170356 72399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1453170860 167786 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1453171917 455791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: wouldn't you just use a very large polynomial, fitted independently to each pixel? < 1453171930 322905 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1453172308 213635 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1453172404 978892 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read somewhere else, someone figured that it is possible to win with Hedron Alignment without ever passing through any end step or cleanup step. < 1453172663 934865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, IIRC it requires using Karn's ultimate on turn 1 < 1453172696 350251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which requires you to have a starting hand that can produce 7 mana on turn 1 (more, in fact, because you have to play other cards); this isn't impossible but it does require a huge amount of luck < 1453172761 737669 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know you need to be good luck, but I would think that you can assume that you have good luck, if attempting to figure out such a puzzle < 1453172827 837116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1453172847 23396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in that case you can probably meet any of the alternate win conditions without going through a cleanup step < 1453172880 934007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only reason you need to ultimate Karn is if they trigger right at the start of the upkeep before you can do anything (this is true of most but not all alternate win conditions) < 1453172901 409439 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This card does require upkeep though < 1453172923 784119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1453172941 235991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually if you use Un-cards you can probably do it without Karn, using Topsy Turvy < 1453172949 203884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not quite sure what happens to the current turn when you play it < 1453172979 208277 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither am I; the Un-cards don't have any proper rule support < 1453173133 751958 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For example, many people argue about R&D's Secret Lair; I would think that if used together with an old Lightning Bolt card then you are allowed to damage all nontoken creatures/planeswalkers at once, but there is no proper rule support for such thing therefore I think it cannot be called either right or wrong) < 1453173190 450834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you think R&D's Secret Lair prevents Wastes generating mana < 1453173216 794680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT the only consistent way to interpret the reason that Wastes generates mana is that it was errata'd upon release < 1453173229 982485 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say yes itdoes < 1453173230 601091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is no rules text for it on the card, nor in the rules, its rules text is only on Oracle < 1453173273 74867 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also makes Portal basic lands to generate no mana < 1453173319 842722 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the newer textless lands (which are now common) do generate mana < 1453173464 750078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :textless basic lands would generate mana because of their basic land subtypes < 1453173477 899685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this makes textless dual-subtype lands better, beacuse they lose their drawbacks < 1453173508 368804 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is why I say they do generate mana < 1453173603 875154 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And under the influence of R&D's Secret Lair, the Island from Fifth Edition still generates blue mana and is named "Island" but is not basic and is not an Island. < 1453173813 601059 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :While I have seen many comments mentioning people will use it and target lands or cards in graveyard or whatever (which I would still consider legal, but nothing happens if you do), nobody has mentioned the "damage everything" effect I have mentioned, as far as I can tell. < 1453173827 497874 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what do you think it is? < 1453173879 67952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lands with "{T}: Add {U} to your mana pool" but aren't Islands are actually considered quite valuable in some formats, because they make the deck more resistant to cards like Choke < 1453173896 233848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what's the wording of the version of Lightning Bolt in question? < 1453173920 923860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lightning Bolt does 3 damage to any target", right? < 1453173942 160123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think "each creature" is a valid target under the rules; at least, there's no card that attempts to target it < 1453173942 334638 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1453173960 106441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could arguably target a battlefield but that wouldn't do anything, battlefields can't take damage < 1453173962 274929 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that isn't a valid target, but the battlefield is a valid target. < 1453173972 482579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that R&D's Secret Lair doesn't change the rules, just the cards) < 1453173987 322652 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :See rule 400.11 < 1453174011 374432 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tokens will not be damaged in this case) < 1453174044 273320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that rule say? I don't have a copy of the rules handy < 1453174084 583152 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :An action that is performed on a zone is performed on all cards in that zone. < 1453174120 960811 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For example, "shuffle your hand into your library" mean you must shuffle all cards in your hand into your library) < 1453174135 616627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1453174152 158730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in that case the only remaining problem is if the battlefield is a legal target < 1453174156 969025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem is that there's only one of it < 1453174167 330185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that a card would never say "target battlefield", it'd just say "the battlefield" < 1453174205 356766 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although what they would and would not print seems irrelevant < 1453174238 77999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, I interpret "any target" as meaning "anything that could be targeted", so it rather depends on whether the battlefield could be targeted, by any hypothetical card < 1453174241 677364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I feel that it couldn't be < 1453174258 436971 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it can be. The rules say zones can be targeted. < 1453174340 360893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only one card that targets a zone < 1453174365 23130 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Any hypothetical card" can include even cards that they will never actually print, I believe < 1453174462 997579 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways "target battlefield" does in fact have a different effect than "the battlefield" in some cases. For example "Put a token copy of target creature onto target battlefield. Draw a card." will cause you to draw a card even if the target creature is invalid because it still has some valid targets < 1453174483 754000 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And spells that can retarget only spells that have a single target, won't affect it < 1453174507 322638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is it possible to give the battlefield protection? or hexproof? < 1453174512 882025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(using R&D's secret lair) < 1453174540 177689 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, zones cannot have abilities, nor does any card give "any target" protection or hexproof < 1453174565 154018 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1453174582 198098 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If something gave the zone the ability though, it instead gives all cards in that zone the ability anyways if zones cannot have abilities < 1453174840 689242 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Magic: the Puzzling: Codex" (incomplete) is at: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/codex.doc You may review what I have so far if you wish, although I am still editing it (live; the server is my own computer). < 1453174883 795468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what format is it in? < 1453174892 949515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not used to seeing .doc on websites < 1453174955 555694 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1175999594.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, isn't .doc always ms word? < 1453174991 68350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not always < 1453174992 73065 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Windows it usually is < 1453175009 274789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it's used to mean "documentation" rather than "document", and even "document" is a very general term < 1453175022 517683 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it can also be a plain text file, which in this case it is (having .DOC for plain text is a bit common in DOS, and sometimes others too) < 1453175121 615791 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ".docx" is always Microsoft Word, I think < 1453175176 23174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.docx is the extension used for OOXML, which Microsoft wanted word processors other than Word to use (or claimed to) < 1453175177 925006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but very few did < 1453175185 628748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least by default < 1453175203 227353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which rule is 100.6? < 1453175208 904681 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@24.237.158.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1453175307 139798 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tournament rules < 1453175316 407678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think [8.1] should be clarified, as written it seems to contradict [8], and there's no obvious reason why Commander would be relevant there; also [8.1.1] should probably exclude the possibility of cards that can be played from a library while not searching it < 1453175337 57385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait, [8.1.2] clarifies that bit < 1453175539 233313 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I clarified those rules a bit as to why Commander is relevant and that [8] has the exceptions listed below is mentioned explicitly now in rule [8] < 1453175644 527771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, don't Commander games have either no or infinitely large sideboards? where does the number of 10 come from? < 1453175682 877447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's a combo in Commander where you use an activated ability that costs {20} and lets you get any number of Eldrazi cards from outside the game < 1453175692 297085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you shuffle them into your library and use them to win with Battle of Wits < 1453175832 203168 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Comprehensive Rules don't say so, although it says so in the other official Commander rules document < 1453175865 757665 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And elsewhere) < 1453175890 965351 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the card that targets a zone? < 1453175892 611045 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They ought to add it to the Comprehensive Rules though, it would seem to me < 1453175903 815997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Circu, Dimir Lobotomist < 1453175916 882263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason it targets a zone is that targeting the player who owns the zone (which is the usual template) didn't fit on the card < 1453175973 379065 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like... if they wanted to make it say "target player's library", that would have made the text too long? < 1453175978 564468 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think it can now mean that it can be use even if that player is protected? < 1453176055 482843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: right < 1453176082 216208 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm. If you can target the battlefield with Lightning Bolt (in its version that says "any target"), presumably you could also target, say, a library. < 1453176088 564130 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so it would deal 3 damage to every card in that library. < 1453176094 97792 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would, of course, ultimately have no effect. < 1453176108 955295 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the rules actually permit dealing damage to something that isn't a permanent? < 1453176129 163953 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't a permanent or player, rather? < 1453176129 883836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can damage a player < 1453176156 25038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you can certainly try to damage a creature and have it not be a creature by the time the effect resolves, in which case nothing happens < 1453176171 16100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine damaging a creature cards in a library likewise has nothing happen < 1453176173 679568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*creature card < 1453176264 673930 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel another stupid card idea coming on. < 1453176313 492832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something lke "search target player's library for any number of creature cards with toughness 2 or less, and place them in that player's graveyard"? < 1453176322 941859 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1175999594.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just fount out that "Youtube Red" is *not* google's move to dominate the porn industry. < 1453176362 296509 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Yeaaah, it's a weird name IMO. < 1453176390 631553 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorcery. You become a creature token with "This creature's power and toughness are each equal to your life total. If this creature would leave the battlefield, you cease to be an object instead." < 1453176412 860771 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: o.o < 1453176415 274221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: surely you also need a "place yourself onto the battlefield" < 1453176423 565191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that reminds me a ton of Form of the Squirrel < 1453176440 536150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it interacts quite badly with Humility, though < 1453176460 818348 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "creature token" doesn't imply being on the battlefield the way that "creature" does. < 1453176502 905620 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1175999594.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's such a misleading name that I assumed it was a premium porn thing and moved on without looking into it < 1453176522 446652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: so what happens if someone gains control of the token? do they gain control of you in the same sense as Worst Fears? < 1453176531 89242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, can they make you attack yourself? < 1453176579 710382 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good question. Controlling a player and controlling an object work differently. < 1453176642 324844 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I think Magic has an ontology in which each entity has only one set of qualities, rather than a set of qualities for each sort of thing that it is. < 1453176691 898915 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My custom cards include rules to unify controlling players and controlling objects, although these custom card rules do not allow to put yourself into a field < 1453176694 233314 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If X is a foo, and X is a bar, and foos have bazness, and bars also have bazness, then X doesn't have a separate bazness-as-a-foo and bazness-as-a-bar; it just has the one bazness. < 1453176697 213067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's already a ton of rulings about Gideon blocking attacks on himself when a creature planeswalker < 1453176717 231679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nearly always he gets some sort of damage prevention in order to make things less confusing) < 1453176748 496603 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man... ontologies. < 1453176804 259104 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think for the most part, Magic has a partitioning ontology: there are various classes, and each "thing in the game" falls into exactly one of those classes. < 1453176811 810318 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that one of those classes, "object", is really broad. < 1453176846 799231 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rulings for Gideon blocking do match what I would expect and how I thought it worked anyways, due to reading the comprehensive rules and see no rules that specify it would work any differently to how I thought which is same as what it says on Gatherer rulings < 1453176850 510942 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With that ontology, it's simply not possible for a player to be a token. < 1453176929 257780 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1453177003 350318 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. I sleep night all. < 1453177596 178074 :haavard!freebsd@haavard.me PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you create a 1/1 colorless Player token. < 1453177625 232278 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't < 1453177677 484372 :haavard!freebsd@haavard.me PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something in the comp. rules stating you can't have tokens that are not one of the listed existing types, isn't there < 1453177714 958809 :haavard!freebsd@haavard.me PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there's one when you have to name a creature type and such, you can't name "Fizziwonkle" because it's not an existing type < 1453179346 798390 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@24.237.158.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How secure is a non-SSL-wrapped TCP socket? < 1453179452 3713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: it can be read by anyone on the physical connection between the source and destination < 1453179465 141332 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@24.237.158.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah. < 1453179471 751042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this includes the ISP and most governments; however, if you're using a wired connection, it's not likely to include most other people < 1453179486 304909 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@24.237.158.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What would be the good way to do it? I'm transmitting (unique, non-reused) passwords < 1453179494 561827 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@24.237.158.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSL? < 1453179516 383342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: to be honest those nearly always get sent over insecure connections anyway (e.g. email), and it's rarely a problem < 1453179527 849345 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@24.237.158.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah. < 1453179534 628103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they need to be secure, though, SSL would probably be best < 1453179538 831967 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@24.237.158.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1453179543 691997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt security, use something widely used and well tested < 1453179547 430358 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@24.237.158.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It also needs to be fast (fast enough for a real-time game) < 1453179548 432851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it'll almost certainly be wrong < 1453179585 173913 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@24.237.158.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Does that mean I need to jump through hoops and SSL only the passwords, or would SSL be fast enough? < 1453179604 475131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSL isn't that slow < 1453179681 671356 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@24.237.158.1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, I wasn't sure xD < 1453179801 824982 :haavard!freebsd@haavard.me PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't optimise prematurely is a good saying < 1453180475 819640 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@24.237.158.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1453183380 584058 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid question: if something used to take 10s and now it only takes 2s, is that a 500% speedup? < 1453183454 836052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 400% surely? or 80% depending on what you measure relative to < 1453183581 733211 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes 400 sorry < 1453183589 802038 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mu question was exactly that < 1453183592 656735 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :400 or 80? < 1453183641 929589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaning towards the 80 but am not sure why, there doesn't seem to be a logical reason to pick it < 1453183653 243327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's 400% faster, but the time is 80% smaller < 1453183789 884942 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be clearer if i write "it now takes only a fifth of the time" ? < 1453183798 863743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, much clearer < 1453183812 147976 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1453185113 518057 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1453186023 187897 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1453186055 968213 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haavard: Yes, but I was worried SSL might be orders of magnitude slower than is needed < 1453186074 369831 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anagramargana < 1453186104 309302 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^^^^^^^^^^^ much better names for "anagram"s < 1453186196 525346 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: that should have been pallindromemordnillap < 1453186209 102603 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: ... < 1453186210 43925 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit. < 1453186210 222992 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ll/l/g < 1453186244 136249 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: nag a ram is also a much better name for anagram < 1453186326 722031 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1453190450 175002 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-36-106.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1453190553 714642 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-44-69.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1453190565 417264 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-36-106.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi NICK :J_Arcane < 1453191180 959805 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1453191323 834589 :andrew!~andrew@14.154.165.212 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1453191335 639052 :andrew!~andrew@14.154.165.212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1453191364 641132 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1453191367 404064 :andrew!~andrew@14.154.165.212 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1453191375 638864 :andrew!~andrew@14.154.165.212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1453191413 891098 :andrew!~andrew@14.154.165.212 QUIT :Client Quit < 1453191430 644936 :andrew!~andrew@14.154.165.212 JOIN :#esoteric < 1453191612 868983 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-36-106.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/samshadwell/TrumpScript < 1453191618 438916 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1453192136 630661 :LexiciScriptor!~LexiciScr@net-37-117-99-184.cust.vodafonedsl.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1453193278 353446 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ah so that was what roy meant. < 1453194009 442873 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Uni < 1453194016 636886 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-36-106.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1453194327 992534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1453194380 722283 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-253-54.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1453196122 348829 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 JOIN :#esoteric < 1453196124 943099 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fnörd < 1453196206 281906 :LexiciScriptor!~LexiciScr@net-37-117-99-184.cust.vodafonedsl.it QUIT :Quit: LexiciScriptor < 1453196281 22737 :LexiciScriptor!~LexiciScr@net-37-117-99-184.cust.vodafonedsl.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1453200605 528728 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pff "they don't have a financial adviser".. < 1453200616 178063 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need a financial adviser if you win Mio. of $ < 1453200669 244498 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you split it up and distribute it to different banks < 1453200686 548701 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably not the best thing in terms of interest rates < 1453200697 275341 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should be decently safe so you don't go broke < 1453200702 900646 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't need a financial adviser for that. < 1453200755 147602 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 350000000 * (0.25 / 100) < 1453200756 803579 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 875000.0 < 1453200814 765507 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 875k $ with 0.25% interest rates < 1453200861 304202 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one year of interest rates gives you as much money as working ten years < 1453200863 796 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you don't realize is that your swiss genes make you biased hth < 1453200868 9572 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1453200887 229750 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you're already a natural financial advisor hth < 1453200993 477536 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the problem is that taxes for 350'000'000 are huge :D < 1453201019 132414 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like 2.5 Mio. in Tax per year with that kind of money < 1453201044 724323 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly 2 Mio. tax per years < 1453201057 35794 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the interest rates aren't enough to cover all the taxes) < 1453201065 740972 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 350/2 < 1453201067 394099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 175.0 < 1453201092 550924 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you live with one million a year < 1453201095 585223 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then uhm < 1453201097 573851 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 350/3 < 1453201099 355592 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 116.66666666666667 < 1453201111 666629 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have enough mone for at least a hundred years < 1453201182 443032 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1453201185 853524 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1453201206 249396 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1453201221 335098 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily it doesn't really matter how much money you have < 1453201232 726738 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sooner or later you'll loose everything to taxes :D < 1453201239 140235 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 8% a year goes to taxes < 1453201287 523363 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need 8% in interest rates to cover the taxes < 1453201293 916586 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that probably then counts as income < 1453201296 612851 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and income is taxed too < 1453201297 903552 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1453201298 657015 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1453201304 72626 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ain't getting rich on interest rates < 1453201455 597569 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you plan on getting rich THEN you need a financial adviser < 1453201485 54162 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just plan to live off the money then you just put it into an account < 1453202127 13241 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got an openbsd account on unixssh.com < 1453202130 481473 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do i do with it? < 1453202142 261662 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even gave me a subdomain for free < 1453202177 547172 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :free vps that i don't even need <.< < 1453203266 874942 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1453203656 745306 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/jHElmzhQ < 1453203666 629010 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't look right @unixssh account creation < 1453204365 704531 :tjt263!~RAPSCA77I@unaffiliated/tjt263 JOIN :#esoteric < 1453204479 149452 :tjt263!~RAPSCA77I@unaffiliated/tjt263 PART :#esoteric < 1453205495 482782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It said "OK" right there, I'm sure it's fine. < 1453205770 436331 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not. < 1453205967 122684 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: GAMMA CHICKEN < 1453206012 967026 :LexiciScriptor!~LexiciScr@net-37-117-99-184.cust.vodafonedsl.it PART :#esoteric < 1453206100 405951 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc15-croy20-2-0-cust489.croy.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1453206100 619713 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc15-croy20-2-0-cust489.croy.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1453206100 619790 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1453206359 729364 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1453206373 911988 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't advertise unhealthy stuff to kids but to adults it's fine < 1453206375 588765 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because u know < 1453206377 113121 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck adults < 1453206406 614542 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1453206413 143152 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :financially it's better if adults die younger < 1453206422 219270 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because adults need to be able to make adult(tm) decissions < 1453206658 172512 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1453206660 507224 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is stupid < 1453206670 86425 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know shit about what substances are dangerous to me < 1453206671 740885 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody does < 1453206682 494953 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some substances probably don't even need to be declared on the product < 1453206722 493014 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody who argues that "an adult should be able to make an informed decision" assumes that those adults manage to track papers, discoveries, know about substance interactions and whatever the fuck there is to know. < 1453206742 979882 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that assumption is horribly wrong. < 1453206779 769590 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :People do all kinds of wrong assumptions all the time. < 1453206819 8006 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the whole plastic bag debate < 1453206823 170793 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so incredibly stupid. < 1453206858 923667 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like "nooo people can't function without those plastic bag at grocerie stores we can't forbid them" < 1453206880 388582 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what most likely happens is that people just buy a reusable bag once and then take it with them all the time. < 1453206956 191577 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or forcing young adults to do extra courses on "how not to take drugs and drive a car while on drug" < 1453206961 627235 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just bullshit. < 1453207011 936498 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have the assumption that you can prevent every accident by forcing people to visit more courses then you're a moron. < 1453207032 517933 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also sexual assault courses for immigrants... < 1453207033 884442 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... < 1453207042 342725 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" (For example, many people argue about R&D's Secret Lair; I would think that if used < 1453207045 497044 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38> (For example, many people argue about R&D's Secret Lair; I would think that if used < 1453207075 465711 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very certain these guys in Köln knew what they're doign so I don't get where people get this assumption "they didn't know better, let's force them to visit courses and we'll teach them" < 1453207098 722005 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" (For example, many people argue about R&D's Secret Lair; I would think that if used together with an old Lightning Bolt card then you are allowed to damage all nontoken creatures/planeswalkers at once," -- huh, how does that work? < 1453207160 93466 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" AFAICT the only consistent way to interpret the reason that Wastes generates mana is that it was errata'd upon release" -- yes, http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/oath-gatewatch-release-notes-2016-01-13 basically says that < 1453207223 752173 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also these additional pre-driving courses are highly inefficient. You could just expand the theoretical exam to include material you'd cover in these courses and students ultimatevily have to learn that material to pass the exam. < 1453207261 803497 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't cost serious bucks and wouldn't waste too much time for people with common sense. < 1453207308 324748 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you say target the battlefield. crazy idea. < 1453207341 467701 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like 250 bucks of 4 evening of getting told the average adult already knows anyway. < 1453207351 815619 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+what < 1453207353 610816 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it is printed "to one target", not "to any target". < 1453207571 708853 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" also [8.1.1] should probably exclude the possibility of cards that can be played from a library while not searching it" -- um, are you thinking of 1996 World Champion, or of YAÆV? < 1453207773 525269 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Then again, I think Magic has an ontology in which each entity has only one set of qualities, rather than a set of qualities for each sort of thing that it is."" -- objects (which are basically the manifestation of a card or other thing in a zone between when it's placed there and leaves) definitely have different properties from the base card (or other thing, eg. base token as it was created) < 1453207981 929264 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: um, I don't think it works like that. they made a pretty big deal about advertising cigarettes and other tobacco products like a decade ago, and so cigarette ads are practically nonexistant here, as are cigarette vending machines. < 1453208026 457327 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's been true for so long here that I was actually very surprised once when seeing cigarette ads in a foreign country. < 1453208056 946400 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is this Codex thing tries to be something like the chess puzzles codex? < 1453208259 131684 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you at least don't try to deliberately set up some paradoxes or quasi-paradoxes with strange definitions in the codex. Let me see. < 1453208371 989612 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You don't need to either, the rules of M:tG, especially the infinite rules, have more paradoxical definitions than the chess guys ever came up with.) < 1453209351 188864 :andrew!~andrew@14.154.165.212 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1453209386 829478 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: What do you mean? < 1453209436 439442 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think around here the rules are: No tobacco ads on TV < 1453209440 647481 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the streets it's fine < 1453209495 311902 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: there are none on the streets here either. < 1453209499 252783 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just not allowed. < 1453209541 321667 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't even allowed in the Formula-1 car race anymore, which was something of a big deal because a certain cigarette company used to be a big sponsor (I think this was wider in Europe, not only here) < 1453209569 791274 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what "doesn't work that way"? < 1453209612 599214 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: you said "you can't advertise unhealthy stuff to kids but to adults it's fine" -- but you can't. there are rules about what you can advertise to adults too, at least about tobacco and some other things. < 1453209975 275475 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1453209982 353430 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are regulations for ads targeting adults as well. < 1453210025 130248 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but specifically about ads for unhealthy products like cigarettes. < 1453210214 281510 :jaboja!~jaboja@afo10.internetdsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1453210405 822350 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all alcoholic beverages should have a "carcinogenic" warning label < 1453210415 555641 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1453210475 857031 :jaboja!~jaboja@afo10.internetdsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1453210540 574702 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in the codex http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/codex.doc , near rule 4.1 you might have to mention restarting the game (as in Karn Liberated) < 1453210771 27043 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does rules 8.1.1 basically try to say that the opponent's library could contains something as broken as a debugging card with like "{0}: A player of your choice loses the game. You may play this ability from the battlefield, your hand, or the graveyard." < 1453210781 884079 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the graveyard/a graveyard/ < 1453211236 231032 :jaboja!~jaboja@host210.23.54.194.generacja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1453212216 739624 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-253-54.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1453212220 491218 :jaboja!~jaboja@host210.23.54.194.generacja.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1453213618 133544 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.181 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1453213865 31942 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1453214419 890928 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1453214511 911323 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1453214740 841793 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Pyth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46231&oldid=44538 5* 0384.17.219.63 5* (-13) 10Fixed broken links to documentation and repository < 1453214812 216619 :spiette!~spiette@206.167.243.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1453214848 919023 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hq9eFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46232&oldid=46194 5* 03Ennullizer 5* (+41) 10/* Implementation */ < 1453214943 365535 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hq9eFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46233&oldid=46232 5* 03Ennullizer 5* (+62) 10/* Implementation */ < 1453214946 653192 :bender|!~benderpc@2404:e800:e61a:41d:c81d:7bf9:c63:3e4e QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1453214965 970040 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Ennullizer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46234&oldid=46195 5* 03Ennullizer 5* (-256) 10/* Hq9eFuck */ < 1453214983 457676 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hq9eFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46235&oldid=46233 5* 03Ennullizer 5* (+2) 10/* Implementation */ < 1453215549 232234 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1453215888 17191 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1453215978 556536 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1453220122 172081 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-pzgqewadugwxwgrw QUIT :Excess Flood < 1453220196 224387 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-xmkqtakjlnituvzx JOIN :#esoteric < 1453220256 19932 :vodkode!~vodkode@fl-71-52-122-10.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1453220317 983122 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1453220569 414591 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1453221653 112805 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1453221703 202788 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get over this drawing style in Questionable Comics. Is that even Hannelore? How did she grow so much hair? < 1453221726 913384 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It is meant to be like chess puzzles codex, yes < 1453221802 37834 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will add your suggestion about restarting the game < 1453221814 244953 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's not wearing her usual bright blue shirt and shorts, which makes her even more difficult to identify, especially for me who don't look at eye color much. But the dialog and the ear piercings give her away. < 1453221934 626799 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :different hair style, different eye-brows < 1453221975 255065 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can see quite a bit of time passing in the previous comic anyway... < 1453221977 522775 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION won't complain < 1453221983 840294 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It looked weird to me too, but I just assumed from the hair color. < 1453222138 913096 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1453222721 876187 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :M:tG trivia questions. When can it matter that your creature has deathtouch even if no creatures attack or block? When can it matter that your creature has reach, if there are no creatures with flying around? < 1453222743 892559 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There may be some wildcard answers that work with many abilities, but try to find an answer in each case that works for that ability but not for trample instead. < 1453222823 850932 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, when can it matter that your creature has banding if that's the only creature you have on the battlefield and you have no teammates? (This one is slightly different from the first two.) < 1453222844 634406 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1453223071 814770 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there might be cards that do something for each creature you have in play with reach or so, but I wouldn't know < 1453223077 570819 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has barely played MtG < 1453223156 280758 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: do you mean like Hurricane or Earthquake (the normal one, not the portal three kingdoms one)? < 1453223215 591232 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's something like that for reach, but maybe there's a card that cares about reach in some other way? Hint, hint. < 1453223398 190569 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1453223432 363858 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: when did you play magic the most? as in, you're familiar with cards from what blocks the most? < 1453223454 20072 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhmm, good question < 1453223470 494843 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :~5 years ago, for maybe half a year very casually :P < 1453223479 849236 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me, it's mostly around tenth edition and Lorwyn < 1453223500 661908 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 years ago, that's... let me check the timeline, Alara? < 1453223509 196328 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, after that < 1453223518 557979 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look it up < 1453223521 654865 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :around M2010 and Zendikar < 1453223536 185877 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Scars < 1453223543 166043 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and M11 < 1453223551 861001 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :The M11 logo looks familiar < 1453223553 817426 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all those nice black spells < 1453223556 167495 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :set symbol* < 1453223592 853315 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I guess it could've been either of M10/M11 < 1453223778 122490 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean Disfigure, Deathmark, Duress, Disentomb. The four dees for B.) < 1453225998 628202 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1453226204 629286 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1453228461 118205 :ocharles_!sid30093@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ifopjwfmpqriwpwc QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1453228587 45478 :ocharles_!sid30093@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gfjqdxnqdfqdknml JOIN :#esoteric < 1453230165 726993 :LexiciScriptor!~LexiciScr@net-37-117-99-184.cust.vodafonedsl.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1453230505 695171 :vodkode!~vodkode@fl-71-52-122-10.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1453231185 711208 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-87.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1453231271 529270 :impomatic_!~digital_w@79.16.114.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1453231781 676941 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-87.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1453231817 803266 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-87.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1453232922 633807 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1453233120 632213 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1453234048 615955 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gaatoklrtewodgra QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1453234575 111776 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hqlmeprvjzlugpfa JOIN :#esoteric < 1453236677 611227 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-244-93.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1453237496 893452 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pgdvtfhvvtfryacd JOIN :#esoteric < 1453237760 7232 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-pgdvtfhvvtfryacd QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1453239302 793738 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-87.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1453240811 629397 :LexiciScriptor!~LexiciScr@net-37-117-99-184.cust.vodafonedsl.it QUIT :Quit: LexiciScriptor < 1453242312 164235 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1453242620 79576 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1453245623 200927 :spiette!~spiette@206.167.243.2 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1453247041 766331 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1453247234 919984 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gtysjwgsglhjijzm JOIN :#esoteric < 1453247456 898447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1453247625 769067 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1453247774 994779 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-xmkqtakjlnituvzx QUIT :Changing host < 1453247775 208092 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 JOIN :#esoteric < 1453247775 208182 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@unaffiliated/lord-of-life/x-0885362 QUIT :Changing host < 1453247775 208209 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-xmkqtakjlnituvzx JOIN :#esoteric < 1453247795 182125 :rifter!~rifter@47.220.13.113 JOIN :#esoteric