00:00:50 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:09:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:19:17 -!- lynn_ has joined. 00:22:11 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:26:52 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:28:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:32:39 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:35:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:35:44 I'm making a text editor :) 00:36:02 The goal is to make one better than Notepad++ 00:36:09 I'm a long way off from that goal xD 00:36:17 How is your text editing working? I just use vi 00:36:29 zzo38: Well it can do syntax highlighting 00:36:41 zzo38: It uses a JSON-based format for the language files 00:37:11 Which is /much/ better than Notepad++'s XML 00:37:14 By definition 00:37:14 I have once made up (but never implemented) a RDF-based syntax for syntax highlighting 00:37:20 zzo38: Oooh 00:37:26 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:39:06 http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/syntax_highlighter.example It might not be best way as is, but can be made modifications 00:42:39 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:55:36 -!- tromp_ has joined. 01:08:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TICKLE CHICKEN). 01:09:14 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:20:11 You know, I think mouse buttons are a pretty crappy interface. 01:20:26 What does a left click mean? It means "select this thing". Or maybe it means "activate this thing". 01:20:39 -!- bender| has joined. 01:21:14 Double-click means "activate this thing". Or sometimes it's something that doesn't actually support double-clicking; then it means "activate this thing twice". 01:21:40 And how about a click and drag? Ooh boy. 01:21:52 Sometimes it means "move this thing". Sometimes it means "select all these things". 01:22:18 What happens if you're in the middle of a click-and-drag, and you want to cancel it? Sometimes you can hit Escape, but not always. 01:22:35 Or what if you want to do something else in the middle of the click-and-drag? Sucks to be you. 01:23:11 Except that there are a lot of workarounds that things use in order to allow you to do that stuff. 01:23:53 So, how do you scroll? You use the scroll wheel... unless you're clicking and dragging, in which case you move the mouse to the edge of the window. 01:24:08 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:26:23 I think keyboard is fine 01:26:23 How do you switch to a different window? Click on its button in the task bar... unless you're clicking and dragging, in which case you *hover* over the button in the task bar. 01:26:26 I don't use mouse wheel 01:26:47 (I disabled the wheel, and instead just use it as a button) 01:26:48 Likewise for opening up a folder in your file browser. 01:27:25 I think the mouse button function in xterm is reasonable 01:29:16 Double-click on it, unless you're clicking and dragging, in which case you hover instead. 01:29:39 Right-clicking almost always means "open up a menu for interacting with this thing". That's good. 01:29:43 Click and drag is what is worse 01:29:50 Middle-clicking... arbitrary miscellaneous actions. 01:30:37 Lemme make a list of mouse actions. 01:30:47 I prefer the way it work in UNIX, the Windows way isn't very good. In Athena widget set the scrollbar use left/right button to scroll by amount, middle button moves scroll to the clicked position, I think is a better way 01:31:23 You can also use SHIFT+PAGEUP and SHIFT+PAGEDOWN in xterm too, and SCROLL LOCK can be pushed to stop it from automatically scrolling 01:31:55 Which I think is a reasonable way; it is too bad that Firefox does not do these things. 01:34:27 Select this; select up to here; activate this; pick this up; drop this; show me options for this; perform miscellaneous action on this. 01:35:06 Ideally, there should also be "hang this", for when you have something picked up, and you want to do something else before dropping it. 01:35:28 Well, I don't like drag/drop, there are better ways 01:36:08 What do you mean? 01:36:32 -!- tromp_ has joined. 01:37:05 For example, left button selects it and then you can push the middle button to put in something else 01:47:40 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:48:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:48:49 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:48:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:49:32 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:49:38 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:49:42 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:49:42 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:50:12 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:50:14 -!- glogbot has joined. 01:50:16 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:50:16 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:50:19 whew 01:56:55 How can I modify the behaviour of widgets in Firefox? 02:00:21 -!- AlexR42 has joined. 02:00:47 -!- morko44-en has joined. 02:04:10 -!- morko44-en has left. 02:04:55 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:13:58 zzo38: Code, probably. 02:18:20 So I've got the ELK ASM designed partially 02:19:04 I have how you do functions down (function call PUSHes the current line index onto the stack then JMPs to the line that starts the function call, return POPs a value and CJMPs to that line) 02:19:35 So that's functions done, and I think even functional programming can be done with that if you do it right 02:19:46 But I have NFC how to implement classes 02:20:01 Like, classes that can be created at runtime and manipulated and such 02:22:55 :t (&&&) 02:22:56 Arrow a => a b c -> a b c' -> a b (c, c') 02:23:16 And I do realize that OO isn't classes necessarily (prototypes, duh), but it'd be nice to be able to do classy things 02:23:22 oerjan: &&&? 02:23:41 categorically so. 02:24:14 (not relevant to anything you were saying) 02:24:18 oerjan: Ah 02:24:22 oerjan: I was just about to ask xD 02:25:13 oerjan: Do you have any idea how to implement classes- ones that can be thrown around and referenced anonymously and such (first class data, basically)- for a bytecode VM? 02:25:34 no hth 02:25:37 OK 02:29:53 I found chrome://global/content/bindings/scrollbar.xml but am not quite sure what to do with that 02:31:09 My own designs of instruction set, the return from subroutine call is rather something like "POP PC" 02:33:47 And in QUACKVM the instruction to return from a subroutine call is "PUT ,,STACK" 02:37:30 In 6502 codes, one way to do computed jumps is by the "RTS trick" 02:37:36 @tell ais523 Complex Minsky Machine. 02:37:36 Consider it noted. 02:42:10 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:42:23 zzo38: that's just pushing the destination to the stack, then calling RTS, no? 02:43:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 02:44:28 oerjan: That is what it is yes, although the address pushed to stack is actually one less than the actual address 02:44:53 ais523: Oh there you are! 02:45:09 zzo38: So JSR then 02:45:18 * ais523 thinks about the fact that "I'm here" is a tautology, and yet nonetheless a useful statement 02:46:40 ais523: I think you just disproved https://xkcd.com/703/ by counterexample 02:47:48 zzo38: How about the return from a coroutine call? Or a semicoroutine call? 02:47:53 hppavilion[1]: re your lambdabot message, minsky machines have increment and decrement as their basic operations, and those don't get any more interesting when complex numbers are involved 02:48:04 -!- tromp_ has joined. 02:48:07 Speaking of which, are there any other kinds of routines besides sub and co (where sub is a co) 02:48:08 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:48:12 ais523: I didn't think it would xD 02:48:17 see. the way I make esolangs is 02:48:19 you start with an idea 02:48:25 then you follow that idea to its logical conclusion 02:48:40 you don't add /anything/ that isn't a direct consequence of the idea unless it's needed to make the language usable for programming 02:48:43 ais523: I know, I know. I'm just programmed to spit out any ideas I have. 02:48:53 note that this doesn't necessarily lead to a tarpit 02:48:59 True, true 02:49:05 Hm... 02:49:06 most of the commands in Underload are unnecessary in terms of compuational class 02:49:14 but you need them in order to make the language work as designed 02:49:23 (apart from arguably ~) 02:49:38 I just thought "Why don't I make a Minsky Machine-based language that is made to look real enough to trick people into using it?" 02:49:44 Then I rememberd that's ASM 02:49:48 And that I'm doing that right now. 02:50:32 ais523: would "A bytecode VM based on graph manipulation" be a good idea to start with? 02:50:49 hppavilion[1]: hmm 02:51:04 I created an esolang sort-of like that, but started with "all data is stored in one graph" 02:51:11 and came up with http://esolangs.org/wiki/Eodermdrome 02:51:44 which may hold the record for the unimplemented language with the most failed attempts to implement it 02:52:02 -!- heroux has joined. 02:52:06 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:54:53 <\oren\> 至興舎若著蒸蔵蚕衆術裁装裏補製複視覧討訪 02:54:53 <\oren\> 設訳証評詞誌認誕誠誤論諸講謝識警護財貧責 02:57:17 Is threading better done in-VM, or should it be a syscall thing? 03:07:07 ais523: i am pretty sure Eodermdrome is implemented. in fact the page says so. 03:07:20 hmm 03:07:25 I don't recall everr having seen the impl 03:07:40 did you ever test your eodermdrome program? 03:07:55 i haven't downloaded any interpreters myself 03:08:18 although i do recall someone on channel once saying that it worked 03:08:18 ais523: How does this look so far to you? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bSUafKLvBMVqv-tPeDj4rk51CtHoIuKCIZprPb0KBdg/edit?usp=sharing 03:08:36 it's a google doc, I have to jump through huge hoops to read those 03:09:23 ais523: Oh 03:09:36 ais523: I'll make a LaTeX or something 03:09:43 hm is that jason from foxtrot in that xkcd strip 03:09:43 ais523: Actually, just an HTML 03:09:47 Yes, that'll work 03:10:10 (https://xkcd.com/703/) 03:12:02 explain xkcd seems to think so 03:12:55 ais523: Would a simple html-only (well, also a bit of CSS) webpage work? 03:13:03 Or are you behind 7 proxies? 03:13:23 hppavilion[1]: simpe html-only would work fine 03:13:26 I thought of this as a joke word, but apparently it's a French word: https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/tautologue 03:13:26 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:13:36 I expect HTML by itself would probably work, or even just plain text 03:13:45 I basically have two problems: a) I have Google stuff blocked in my browser; b) I have lots of rich-content (including JS) blocked in my browser 03:13:55 ais523: Ah 03:13:56 I have no problems reading HTML on the vast majority of sites though 03:14:11 zzo38: I like to arrange things into nice tables, which is a huge pain with plaintext (not THAT huge, but still not fun) 03:14:26 You probably don't even need CSS, although it can be used if necessary 03:14:33 ais523: Why Google? 03:15:01 shachaf: partly because they're large enough to correlate a wide range of sites 03:15:19 zzo38: I use it for making the table look nice 03:15:20 thus information they get from my web browsing is more valuable to them than the equivalent information would be for any other site 03:15:25 and thus it costs me more to give it up 03:16:48 Usually the HTML command would work fine I expect 03:17:24 hmm, is that even part of modern HTML versions? 03:17:44 I have a feeling that the border attribute's meant to be specified using css rather than as an XML/SGML-like attribute 03:18:08 I have had no problem with it 03:18:45 This table is doing so: http://zzo38computer.org/mtg/cardfile.php?do=list 03:18:53 i,i
03:19:16 shachaf: IIRC sadly it's not that simple :-( 03:19:30 zzo38: most browsers understand all HTML versions including the really old ones 03:20:57 You can use CSS to specify details of the border, but if you just want a border then that is what the BORDER=1 is for, it specify to use the default border if there is no CSS (different browsers and users may have different preference and way to display the default border, so a correct color and width and so on would be chosen to fit with the other defaults) 03:23:06 ais523: I seem to have gone back into development before I'm sending it to you xD 03:23:19 :-) 03:23:27 keep going until you've reached something you're happy with 03:23:39 zzo38: I think the 1 is a number, not a boolean 03:23:46 like, border=4 will often give a bigger border I think? 03:23:48 not sure though 03:24:08 ais523: Should I give every node a single accumulator, or do you think that defeats the purpose? 03:24:22 hppavilion[1]: I don't have enough context to understand the question 03:24:28 ais523: Ah, OK 03:24:47 * hppavilion[1] hashes ais523's response to a boolean and treats "True" as yes and "False" as 0 03:24:51 s/0/no/ 03:24:54 xD 03:25:52 It look it makes the outer border larger if you put high numbers, not the inner border? 03:26:28 I think I'll do a pointer-specific stack instead of node registers 03:26:45 zzo38: "cellspacing" and "cellpadding" control the details of the inner borer 03:27:02 in old HTML versions 03:27:13 -!- heroux has joined. 03:28:02 You can ignore those and just use the default though, you can use CSS if you want more control over the table, but usually such thing is not needed 03:35:56 -!- tromp_ has joined. 03:36:39 I think most websites do too much CSSing 03:38:23 ais523: Here's what I have so far: http://206.174.0.58/graph_vm 03:38:26 Yes I also think so 03:38:42 It could and will easily change when I realize that it has major flaws that make no sense 03:39:01 ais523: And there's some example code, too 03:39:05 But, I have Stylish extension and can use to override the CSS of anything; if the webpage has no CSS already then I find it unnecessary to add some, but if there is some then usually it is wrong 03:39:19 Oh, whoops 03:41:27 The only form of conditional I have is FOLLOW, which does nothing if an edge doesn't exist xD. Probably useless, but it might just make Tarpit status 03:41:35 If I'm lucky 03:44:41 It's funny how me asking if I should remake the doc in HTML evolved into a discussion about the merits of CSS and stuff xD 03:52:36 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:00:21 -!- XorSwap has joined. 04:01:27 hppavilion[1]: you're using literals specified in the program for nodes, this means that the number of nodes you can have is limited by the size of the program 04:02:16 -!- tromp_ has joined. 04:04:25 ais523: Oh right... 04:04:27 Shit... 04:05:13 ais523: How about "AUTONEWND/PUSH", which creates a new node with the first available ID and pushes its ID onto the call stack? 04:06:25 ais523: There, 0x09 is PNEWND 04:10:04 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:10:47 -!- heroux has joined. 04:19:46 right, that's more along the lines you should be thinking 04:19:58 I'd probably get rid of any ability to specify numbers manually 04:20:06 probably also the pointer 04:20:20 and instead have a sort of stack machine where the stack hold nodes 04:20:27 and you can perform operations like connect, disconnect, follow, etc. on them 04:20:42 Well, I scared myself. My AV was scanning, and said it detected something, but wouldn't tell me what it was until the scan finished. Scan finished... it was the EICAR test file 04:23:58 ais523: Perhaps 04:27:38 Congrats, your antivirus works. 04:30:13 why did you have the EICAR test file anyway? 04:33:13 I want there to be a language whose definition is an interpreter for it, written in it. The interpreter allows you to modify it. 04:34:02 The language behaves as if it were being interpreted as an infinite stack of interpreters, each interpreter faster than the one below it, so that it actually does stuff in a finite amount of time. 04:35:56 So... the language is defined as a self-modifying self-interpreter. An actual implementation of the language has to somehow determine the meaning of any modified version of the self-interpreter. 04:37:13 ais523, I downloaded it at some point recently I guess. 04:37:21 I do know I like downloading it, I'm not sure why 04:37:37 it strikes me that that must be one of the hardest possible files to download 04:37:43 as every competent antivirus will try to stop you 04:38:56 -!- lynn_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:40:47 Can confirm, literally just downloaded it and had the AV complain at me. 04:41:50 Ooh, my client has "AV" kerned. 04:44:25 I found the text in wikipedia and saved it to a text file 04:44:31 But hey, you can always go to data:application/octet-stream;base64,WDVPIVAlQEFQWzRcUFpYNTQoUF4pN0NDKTd9JEVJQ0FSLVNUQU5EQVJELUFOVElWSVJVUy1URVNULUZJTEUhJEgrSCo= and get it. 04:44:34 My AV yelled at me 04:45:20 Though data:application/octet-stream,X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H* 04:45:24 might be more reasonable 04:45:40 ... Modulo that not being a valid URI. Curses. 04:45:58 `loudly AV 04:46:09 ​AV 04:46:18 It did not, of course, kern that. 04:46:37 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:47:04 -!- tromp_ has joined. 04:47:07 So maybe this "language" would be a cellular automaton designed to have a particularly small unit cell. 04:51:05 And one of its states would "break" the unit cell, putting it into a state where it can ultimately be arbitrarily modified. 04:51:54 Hmm 04:52:10 So now that people's logs contains that string, will they also be considered malware? 04:53:10 OK now I made a RDF parser in JavaScript 04:54:11 http://sprunge.us/jZTO 04:55:13 ais523: you know what would be harder? That file, repeated to fill 800 terabytes. 04:55:29 tswett: well yes 04:55:37 although not much harder, you'd probably download a generator or compressed archive 04:56:06 I'm not saying you have to download the file directly 04:56:09 Insert one random byte after each copy. 04:56:19 And... make it 80 petabytes instead. 04:56:28 you might as well have one copy of the file then 80 petabytes of random data 04:56:32 to make it less compressible 04:56:53 Now, a naive implementation of my CA, whenever you use the breaker state, would simply "zoom in", to produce a state that doesn't use the breaker state. 04:56:59 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:57:28 Which would, in theory, work perfectly well for programs which don't have infinite regression in how they use that state. 04:58:25 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:04:23 ais523: Insert a random byte at a random location in each one 05:04:34 Wait, no, tswett: 05:04:41 Well, either one works 05:04:47 I like that idea. 05:05:05 Or... for each copy, randomly select one of the bytes and then pick a random value for it. 05:05:12 Occasionally, it will randomly pick the correct value. 05:05:59 tswett: It'll have the correct string roughly 4294967296 times 05:06:08 Yup. 05:06:38 tswett: So that means that the compression is- wait. We're looking into ways to make files LESS compressible. Why? Why are we doing this? 05:06:44 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:06:50 To make them more difficult to download. 05:07:02 tswett: Wait, I forgot to account for the 800 05:07:19 3435973836800 05:07:42 1:32 compression ratio 05:07:51 Or is it 32:1? I forget 05:08:18 tswett: I don't think your antivirus would even let you try to download an 800 TB file if it was competent 05:08:40 In fact, your COMPUTER wouldn't let you download it because LIMITATIONS OF THE LAWS OF PHYSICS 05:10:19 Well... 05:10:34 At work, there's a "network drive" that's rather large. 05:10:38 See... 05:10:47 tswett: My point is, we can do better at compression 05:10:53 Two random bytes gives us 05:11:17 Or, well, worse 05:11:29 -!- heroux has joined. 05:11:29 You know how nowadays, in the My Computer screen, each drive has a bar underneath indicating the disk usage? 05:11:42 And now, once disk usage exceeds a certain amount, that bar turns red? 05:11:49 I really don't know. I don't think 1:32 was right 05:11:55 tswett: Yes I knew the first part 05:11:59 On this network drive, that bar turned red because it only had 70 terabytes of free space left. 05:12:01 But I've never reached too much disk 05:12:10 Woooooow 05:12:32 Microsoft, don't use percentages. It's not really scalable. 05:12:56 A yottabyte of free space on a 100 yottabyte drive is more than enough free space 05:13:49 Unless you're downloading the entirety of internet porn. Then you're fucked. 05:13:50 (http://cow.org/csi/) 05:14:26 Is there enough storage on the planet for that? 05:16:28 pikhq_: No, which seems paradoxical until you see what martians are into 05:16:37 obviously not, internet porn is infinite 05:17:22 oerjan: If it exists, there is porn of it in the meta 05:17:30 (rule 1156) 05:18:03 no, there's porn of it on the internet. the meta contains even porn of things that _don't_ exist hth 05:18:41 hot IPU action 05:33:00 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:33:34 -!- heroux has joined. 05:37:32 I dunno, I think displaying that warning for 70 terabytes of free space kind of makes sense. 05:37:50 Like, pretend that there are 1,000 people at work who use this drive. 05:37:54 That's 70 gigabytes apiece. 05:39:44 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:52:05 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:53:24 <\oren\> eva report while flying in Kerbin's upper atmosphere 05:53:39 <\oren\> "You feel like you should really get back in the ship" 05:54:32 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:57:32 -!- tromp_ has joined. 06:00:27 tswett: Fair enough 06:02:00 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:05:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 06:07:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:07:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:08:46 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:10:44 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:12:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit). 06:13:49 -!- XorSwap has joined. 06:14:01 -!- XorSwap has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:17:41 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:22:23 -!- bb010g has joined. 06:27:16 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:29:42 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:41:32 -!- heroux has joined. 07:17:06 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:17:23 If I set up a standard protocol for internal server communication between people who like /classic/ internet 07:17:46 Something that works in a terminal (or, for the client I made, a terminal-like GUI) and has custom external servers 07:18:12 Basically like a stripped-down website, coupled with a command line 07:18:15 Who here would use it? 07:19:12 See how the protocol is work first, and then people would decide. 07:24:49 -!- heroux has joined. 07:33:59 <\oren\> the apollo guidance computer has a very strange terminology 07:34:47 Just played a Simpsons arcade game in NewRetroArcade (which uses MAME)' 07:35:03 Are these things just designed to suck in money the way mobile games do today? 07:36:46 <\oren\> yup 07:37:21 Very much so. 07:38:27 I don't know if having free coins ruins any ability to learn to play well, or if there's not that high of a skill ceiling 07:39:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:52:58 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:53:31 -!- heroux has joined. 08:00:40 zzo38: Ah, yes 08:04:07 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: I think you're describing a BBS 08:04:20 \oren\: Whihc is? 08:04:36 <\oren\> BBS was like a website but you interacted with it directly with telnet 08:05:41 Yay! 08:05:41 It still exists, and there are several software for hosting such, such as Synchronet 08:05:43 It works! 08:05:59 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system 08:06:06 I think the thing I made is pretty cool. It's very versatile, at least in theory. 08:06:27 I'm going to see if I can trick anyone into hosting it and feeling like a 1337 h4xx0r 08:06:56 Originally Synchronet was only for telephone lines, but now it supports Telnet, Rlogin, SSH, Gopher, HTTP, and FTP, as well as telephone lines; it also now also supports JavaScript. 08:07:30 (Actually I believe it also supports SMTP, NNTP, and IRC as well.) 08:07:39 (And also FidoNet) 08:08:12 \oren\: A typical session in what I've made may look like this: http://pastebin.com/nQB3TaUp 08:09:02 Wow. 08:09:13 I'm visitor #23 to a thing I just got working xd 08:09:15 *xD 08:11:10 Better example: http://pastebin.com/xRnvGfJk 08:11:21 It's also SSH to some degree. 08:11:29 But it only works in its own little silo 08:13:53 I do not know if Synchronet supports ES6 yet, although they ought to make it to do so, and also to fix the API to work better with ES6 (for example to read a file into a ArrayBuffer). 08:14:27 The idea is that it's a personal server, something you leave hosted as a hobby and through which you disseminate information 08:15:01 Perhaps some blogging could be done on it- but, like, super awesome blogging because it's not a website, it's a terminal 08:15:17 Not that lame weblogging 08:15:29 Yes, although many programs can be run even just as a personal server that you can leave hosted as a hobby 08:16:25 zzo38: True, true 08:16:29 Including real BBS servers, and gopher and HTTP servers (I know that someone runs a combination HTTP and gopher server that they wrote themself in BASIC) 08:16:43 zzo38: I want to make mine somehow special. Not sure how though xD 08:17:11 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:17:43 -!- heroux has joined. 08:49:18 -!- Vorpal has joined. 08:54:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:58:27 -!- tromp_ has joined. 09:03:08 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:18:10 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:31:17 -!- heroux has joined. 09:43:18 -!- AlexR42 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 09:45:25 -!- bender| has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:59:14 54 is 42's double convergence point over sqrt 09:59:21 Well, 55 10:13:56 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:15:18 -!- heroux has joined. 10:20:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:55:27 -!- atehwa has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:19:56 -!- AlexR42 has joined. 11:26:18 -!- lynn has joined. 11:40:08 [wiki] [[CBF (Cleverer Brainfuck)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46366&oldid=41963 * SEnergy * (+19) 11:41:56 [wiki] [[CBF (Cleverer Brainfuck)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46367&oldid=46366 * SEnergy * (+20) 11:42:37 I'm confused by those edits. 11:42:56 [wiki] [[CBF (Cleverer Brainfuck)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46368&oldid=46367 * SEnergy * (-10302) Blanked the page 11:45:07 I... guess they want to delete an article they wrote? 11:48:21 no they just wanted to blank the page 11:48:42 The first two edits added templates that don't exist on our wiki, but do on Wikipedia. 11:48:56 First being a "speedy deletion by author request", and the second some sort of generic delete template. 11:49:13 I'm guessing blanking the page was a fallback option. 12:14:01 crazy how you can make a bachelor thesis out of this 12:25:27 A "fit butt" bachelor's thesis, mind you. 12:26:12 "In this thesis, author discusses and analyzes design flaws of experimental programming language Brainfuck, for which he suggests solution in form of extension of original language. Then he formaly defines this extension and implements its interpret and debugger." 12:26:40 Sadly, it's in a language I don't read. 12:27:31 One of my friends challenged me to do my thesis on brainfuck, mostly so I could get away with writing fuck a lot in a master's thesis 12:27:35 One (of the four) references is to esolangs.org. :) 12:27:38 I don't think I'll take up his challenge 12:31:29 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:31:45 i also references esolangs.org a lot in my thesis 12:31:48 -!- heroux has joined. 12:32:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:32:47 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:35:15 myname: what was your thesis on? 12:35:48 lexing of 2d languages 12:38:39 This thesis refers [1] the Aho, Ullman, Lam "Compilers" book; [2] Böhm, C., On a family of Turing machines and the related programming languages, [3] esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck, [4] Rosenberg and Saloma, Handbook of Formal Languages. 12:39:35 i am also not sure if i would÷ve called bf "experimental" 12:39:45 Or its properties "design flaws". 12:40:17 I'm slightly unsure whether it's appropriate to have Feeney, S. listed as the (sole) author of the Brainfuck article. 12:41:54 (That's graue, who did write the first revision, but it's got a number of contributors since.) 12:43:25 myname: interesting! Is it available on the internet to read? 12:43:44 Taneb: it is written in german :p 12:44:09 That sounds unfortunate for me, a monolingual, to read 12:44:10 :( 12:44:52 well it'd be fine if you were monolingual in german 12:45:06 Phantom_Hoover: I don't think I am, for some reason 12:45:38 Taneb, wait, you mean all these years you were actually trying to speak english? 12:45:45 What 12:45:55 Where did you get that idea 12:45:59 -!- tromp_ has joined. 12:46:14 Looks like plain-as-day Tanebese to me. 12:48:18 is that part of the same language family of zzo38an? 12:48:41 Phantom_Hoover: common misassumption. There's a lot of false friends between the two 12:49:55 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:27:35 -!- Reece` has joined. 13:51:52 -!- benderpc_ has joined. 14:09:52 -!- Treio has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:30:08 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:47:47 -!- boily has joined. 14:57:52 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:58:43 -!- tromp_ has quit. 14:59:02 -!- tromp_ has joined. 15:03:35 -!- benderpc_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:07:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:08:15 -!- heroux has joined. 15:11:21 @ask hppavilion[1] since when are we misleading the topics? everything makes sense, eh? 15:11:22 Consider it noted. 15:31:44 -!- Elronnd has quit (Quit: Let's jump!). 15:34:36 -!- Elronnd has joined. 15:46:59 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:47:18 -!- heroux has joined. 16:12:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:34:34 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 16:35:10 -!- idris-bot has joined. 16:35:29 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 16:37:36 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 17:01:06 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:15:31 -!- tjt263_ has joined. 17:28:52 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:42:29 `wisdom 17:42:46 ... 17:42:54 hovercraft/a-é-ro-g-liss-e-ur. If you mention eels, you'll get smacked with one of them in a most unappropriate manner. 17:44:45 `? eel 17:44:46 eel? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:47:37 -!- heroux has joined. 17:48:08 -!- tjt263_ has left. 18:01:02 -!- gde33 has quit. 18:02:27 * boily eely mapoles int-e 18:03:00 I was thinking of a party involving biologists, electrical engineers and trouts. 18:03:58 `? y 18:03:59 Y is a commune in France. There's nothing funny about this. 18:06:53 `quote 18:06:55 80) fungot!*@* added to ignore list. AnMaster: i'd find that a bit annoying to wait for an ack. 18:06:58 `quote 18:06:58 `quote 18:06:58 `quote 18:06:58 `quote 18:07:13 80 is great 18:07:16 * ais523 waits for the other four 18:07:22 1007) in soviet russia, what sees you is what gets you 18:07:23 18) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, ehird has taste" 18:07:23 415) monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly 18:07:25 84) Darn, now I can't acknowledge the reference you were making. 18:07:50 I don't really like the last three 18:07:59 1007 is me trying too hard to be funny but it's still better than the last three 18:08:27 yeah 18:08:44 where is elliott these days? 18:09:06 `? metasepia 18:09:09 metasepia knew the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks. 18:09:11 just stopped turning up 18:09:18 channel regulars tend not to stay forever 18:11:45 ais523: hi 18:11:56 hi Vorpal 18:12:15 Also you are right, quote 80 is great 18:12:30 why on earth would I put fungot on ignore as well? 18:12:30 Vorpal: i plan to write a number 18:12:46 Vorpal: people were abusing it at the time, and you were more sensitive back then to spam in the channel 18:13:07 ais523: well I was in it for a start, probably had something to do with it 18:13:50 just stopped turning up <-- no elliott any more? :( 18:14:24 Also I wonder why hexchat thinks the ping time is 30 seconds all the time... 18:14:32 It clearly isn't 18:15:13 -!- Vorpal has changed nick to Vorpal_. 18:15:20 -!- Vorpal_ has changed nick to Vorpal. 18:15:26 .... I just looked at nickserv info since I haven't been on here for some time. 18:15:28 -NickServ- User reg. : Dec 26 16:35:03 2005 (10y 6w 3d ago) 18:15:30 Wow 18:15:44 Time flies 18:17:11 `quot 18:17:12 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quot: not found 18:17:12 `quote 18:17:13 `quote 18:17:13 1008) LIST OF ACRONYMS: List Integrating Some Terminology Of Fine Authentic Credibility Relating to Our New Year Media System 18:17:13 `quote 18:17:14 `quote 18:17:14 54) * oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----### Meh * FireFly dies 18:17:14 814) I was hoping I could be like other people and listen to signals while in a public transport vehicle. 18:17:14 812) i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft 18:17:16 `quote 18:17:17 1082) it's not weird, it's even in alphabetical order and nicely formatted! 18:17:30 :D 18:17:35 :D 18:19:17 `find . -name quotes 18:19:18 find: `. -name quotes': No such file or directory 18:19:20 `` find . -name quotes 18:19:30 ​./bin/quotes \ ./quotes 18:19:42 `` sort ./quotes | head 18:19:43 00:07 Sgeo has quit (IRC is taking up too much of my time. I need time to study the Bible and find Christ.) 00:12 Sgeo has joined #esoteric. \ [2008] i'm testing Haiku and it appears that it is a major shit 5+7+5, not 5+11, nooga \ me thinks fungot is high on crack adu: not exactly something like that. bu 18:20:18 `` sort ./quotes | head -n 20 | sed 's/(....................).*/\1/' 18:20:19 sed: -e expression #1, char 30: invalid reference \1 on `s' command's RHS 18:20:27 `` sort ./quotes | head -n 20 | sed 's/\(....................\).*/\1/' 18:20:28 00:07 Sgeo has quit \ [2008] i'm t \ me thinks fung \ [After a long monolo \ [after a long string \ [after a quote delet \ 99% OF USES \ after all, \ after a whi \ also, why i \ and then I \ bleh, why d \ btw, I fina \ * ais523 challenges \ now I just need to work on the nice formatting 18:21:24 after a 18:23:00 `quote ais523 challenges 18:23:01 947) * ais523 challenges the americans here to remember who lost in the most recent UK general election ais523, the lib dems 18:23:27 I guess that one's only funny if you're either British, or following British politics 18:25:33 it's really good though 18:25:44 yes 18:25:54 context makes it slightly better but it's funny even without 18:29:56 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:32:32 -!- heroux has joined. 18:38:04 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:42:10 So, when I play the Simpsons arcade game, am I reducing my skill level by giving it as many coins as I want, or is that pretty much inevitable because they want my money? 18:42:31 (It's MAME, I have free coins >.> ) 18:45:06 You can try to win with as few coins as possible I suppose. But if you fail, it mean you can try again without spending extra money, now 18:46:36 -!- heroux has joined. 18:51:26 -!- lynn has joined. 19:11:57 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 19:16:09 I intentionally avoid all politics 19:16:23 you can't change anything, and all it does is make me mad...so why bother? 19:18:30 <\oren\> well thqt's not quite ture 19:19:29 Well at least Wikipedia seems sufficient to explain the joke :) 19:19:57 `wc quotes 19:20:01 ​ 1264 25410 152033 quotes 19:20:27 <\oren\> you can change things if you're at the start of a change that is already ready to go, like when public opinion has changed but the govt hasn't caught up 19:21:22 `wisdom 19:21:23 pie/I like pie \ I like pie 19:21:31 `wisdom 19:21:33 quine/`? quine 19:21:40 `? quine 19:21:40 ​`? quine 19:22:46 <\oren\> as for politics making you mad, the trick is to only follow other countries' politis closely 19:23:14 -!- Elronnd has quit (Quit: Let's jump!). 19:23:23 \oren\: right, I'm following the current US electoin 19:23:27 mostly for the entertainment value 19:23:34 I suppose the quote predates the 2015 general elections? 19:23:37 `? US election 19:23:38 US election? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:23:42 `? election 19:23:43 election? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:23:53 int-e: not sure 19:23:58 it'd be funny either way but for different reasons 19:24:06 yeah 19:24:58 2013-02-26-raw.txt:< 1361904098 931888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION challenges the americans here to remember who lost in the most recent UK general election 19:25:14 OK yes 19:25:20 that one's better because it's less obvious 19:25:26 -!- Elronnd has joined. 19:25:26 -!- p34k has joined. 19:25:27 (that election, it is) 19:25:30 <\oren\> the hampstershire primaries are tommorrow 19:26:46 <\oren\> most likely the winners will be the commie and the fasist 19:26:58 the interesting things being a) the victory margin for sanders on the democratic side, and b) whatever is going on with the republicans 19:27:13 to be fair the republican side is more interesting because I can't believe any of them are electable 19:27:23 That sed was a complicated way to type cut -c 1-20. 19:27:28 so it's interesting to see which crazy direction they go in 19:27:36 fizzie: I can never quite remember how cut works and the man page wouldn't fit on IRC 19:27:59 `` man cut 19:28:00 <\oren\> I figure trump, once he gets nominated, is suddenly going to veer left on some issues he's avoided talking about 19:28:01 man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config 19:28:09 \oren\: or even on ones he has 19:28:26 there was an election at a society I was in where someone ran as a joke candidate and gave bizarre speeches 19:28:34 but then admitted that if they'd won, they'd have tried to do the job sensibly and properly 19:28:45 just were trying to make the elections themselves more interesting and contested 19:29:24 trump's unpredictable 19:30:03 fizzie: hi! 19:31:05 int-e: I don't think he will "do the job sensibly and properly" though 19:31:17 ais523: I can only remember the "-c N-M" variant. 19:31:19 Vorpal: Hi. 19:31:57 fizzie: weird, I can only remember the cut -d' ' -f N-M variant 19:31:59 Hm 19:32:11 does paste have any options at all? 19:32:22 ais523: if it is gnu, yes 19:32:26 normally I link it up with expand in order to place the columns in more readable positions 19:32:35 ais523: at the very least --help and --copyright 19:32:39 or --version or something 19:32:47 Mandatory arguments to long options are mandatory for short options too. 19:32:47 -d, --delimiters=LIST reuse characters from LIST instead of TABs 19:32:47 -s, --serial paste one file at a time instead of in parallel 19:32:47 --help display this help and exit 19:32:48 --version output version information and exit 19:32:49 it has -d and -s but neither seems that useful 19:33:14 like what does -s even do? read the files one at a time, and then paste as normal? 19:33:21 Isn't -s just cat? 19:33:30 I never used paste, what does normal paste do? 19:34:13 Oh, put each file side by side 19:35:52 it's the opposite of cut 19:36:18 ais523: try man 1p paste, it sheds more light on the options 19:36:24 rather confusing options but 19:36:47 I don't have a section 1p 19:36:53 that's posix presumably? 19:37:27 "Concatenate all of the lines of each separate input file in command line order. The of every line except the last line in each input file shall be replaced with the , unless otherwise specified by the -d option." 19:37:27 ais523: that is the posix docs split in man pages 19:37:38 oh, according to the info page, -s basically transposes the output 19:38:05 apt-get install manpages-posix (for 1p) and apt-get install manpages-posix-dev (for 3p) 19:38:16 ais523: I found those packages really useful 19:38:39 right, was just doing that 19:38:43 looks like it could come in handy 19:38:50 (presumably there isn't a 2p because posix doesn't specify syscalls?) 19:39:35 Apparently -d and -s interact in weird ways 19:40:00 ais523: though there are some pages in 2 that have corresponding 3p but no 3 19:40:22 I guess it is a case of splitting between libc and syscalls differently? 19:40:53 yay, this makes it much easier to get things like the yacc spec 19:41:01 Vorpal: could be 19:41:10 "open" is in 3p 19:41:23 I can't imagine many POSIX systems where that wouldn't be a syscall 19:41:24 Yeah, that is an example of that 19:41:31 so presumably 3p just contains all the stuff that's meant to be in libc 19:41:39 Think so yes 19:41:54 also there is no 5p or 7p iirc 19:42:08 btw what is in 4, 6, 8 and 9 anyway? 19:42:13 * Vorpal looks at man man 19:42:21 Oh 19:42:48 4 is for things like /dev/null 19:42:51 6 is games 19:42:59 Like nethack presumably? 19:43:00 6 and 8 are both executables that people didn't want in 1 for whatever reason 19:43:08 and it only goes up to 8 19:43:18 (some people use 9 for weird nonstandard things, I think) 19:43:31 Why the numeric splitting to begin with? 19:43:37 It isn't very intuitive at all 19:43:55 Wouldn't say cmd/ sys/ lib/ and so on make more sense 19:43:59 chapters of the manual 19:44:00 I think it is fine and use the numeric splitting 19:44:06 originally this was a printed book 19:44:10 ais523: the original UNIX manual I guess? 19:44:12 with the option to read bits online 19:44:21 Makes more sense then 19:44:30 it still has headings and footers and the like, although people are often unsure about what to put there 19:44:57 I put zorkmid in section 6, and playmod in section 1 19:45:26 true 19:47:12 What is the point of /dev/full... 19:47:49 Vorpal: testing the error handling of your programs 19:48:12 adding "> /dev/full" to the end of your command line is a trivial way to see if your program handles errors printing output correctly 19:48:13 ais523: right, but it is utterly crude... 19:48:19 It is one specific error 19:49:02 What it it fails to EBADF instead? EDQUOT? 19:49:15 A proper fault simulator might be more useful 19:49:29 Seem to remember that the sqlite guys made something like that 19:49:41 they did 19:49:51 however the vast majority of programs don't care about the specific error code 19:49:58 sometimes even in cases where they should (e.g. EINTR, EAGAIN) 19:50:07 ais523: the error recovery might be different 19:50:53 Not sure if the sqlite thing is reusable for other projects 19:58:44 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 20:01:15 I found that AmigaMML with > /dev/full seems to work OK (although it will not write the song anywhere), although input from /dev/null results in a floating point exception. 20:11:11 Huh. The thesis publication thingie wanted a back cover text. 20:12:30 Also: I keep getting porn ad spam in Swedish at the 'webmaster' role address of gehennom.org. 20:12:39 you own gehennom.org? 20:12:44 Yes. 20:12:56 oh, hmm, it appears to duplicate content of zem.fi 20:13:01 At the moment, yes. 20:13:05 It's been different as well. 20:13:08 I used to run a public nethack server once. 20:13:59 And I've been thinking of putting something nethack-related (some sort of data visualization stuffs, maybe) up there, but haven't. 20:14:11 -!- bb010g has joined. 20:15:55 Oh, and I think I hosted darkhive as a subdomain of gehennom.org. 20:17:32 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:19:04 fizzie: darkhive? 20:20:12 An unofficial archive of a discussion forum with a name starting with d -- hence, "d-arkhive". 20:20:26 Given the quality content, maybe the "dark-hive" split is appropriate as well. 20:20:42 ah 20:22:59 Can you please tell me how to set up the email so that it uses different user name for messages received from internet than local messages? 20:23:38 Maybe I should at least stick in some sort of a more nethacky placeholder on that thing, rather than have it just be a (probably broken somehow; at least the TLS cert is wrong) copy of zem.fi. It got to be like that just because I migrated to lighttpd and didn't bother to configure in name-based vhosts. 20:25:07 fizzie: lighttpd is still alive? 20:25:16 I thought it was all nginx these days 20:25:55 I don't know how much development effort it gets, but they do at least fix issues. 20:26:07 Speaking of which, I should should upgrade nginx to a version supporting HTTP2, some day 20:26:25 Apparently debian backports only has the version right before the HTTP2 one 20:26:28 annoying 20:26:43 You should upgrade it to a version supporting QUIC, be all even fancier. Except I don't think there is a version to do that. 20:26:55 heh 20:27:04 isn't that UDP? 20:27:06 Yes. 20:27:28 It's pretty much a mapping of HTTP/2 on UDP. 20:29:24 heh 20:29:49 "Round-trip times, roughly defined by the speed of light, are bounded, and as a result the only way to decrease connection latency is to make fewer round-trips." 20:29:58 Quoting wikipedia on QUIC 20:30:06 Um... 20:30:07 -!- tjt263__ has joined. 20:30:33 We are not even close to the point of the propagation delay being the limiting factor for most connections 20:30:51 Just compare ping over ethernet and wifi to see that 20:31:38 Yes, it's a bit of a silly comment. The reason QUIC cares about round-trips is because RTTs on mobile networks are awful. 20:31:48 yes it is 20:31:54 Much awful-er than mandated by the speed of light, that is. 20:32:19 fizzie: Also we should dig cables straight through earth, that way imagine how much less the delay to Australia will be 20:33:01 The original source for that comment is probably from a Chromium blog post: "However, despite increasing bandwidth, round trip time (RTT)--which is ultimately bounded by the speed of light--is not decreasing, and will remain high on mobile networks for the foreseeable future." 20:33:08 Speaking of ethernet, why does ethernet connectors generally have status leds, for both connection and data. And why doesn't, say, USB also have that? 20:33:08 Where the bounded-by-c was just an aside. 20:33:21 http://blog.chromium.org/2013/06/experimenting-with-quic.html 20:33:24 Ah 20:34:48 fizzie: btw this laptop gets much more stable ping times when using 2.4 GHz than when using 5 GHz. To the same access point. This does not apply to other devices connected to the same access point. I wonder what is going on 20:37:05 issues with your adapter driver? 20:42:33 quintopia: possibly? It is an old intel adapter 20:42:45 cIntel Corporation PRO/Wireless 5100 AGN [Shiloh] Network Connection 20:42:58 not sure where that c came from, it wasn't supposed to be there 20:43:19 quintopia: the laptop is quite old. About 6.5 years I think 20:43:26 It has a Core 2 Duo 20:59:35 -!- tjt263__ has changed nick to V3R4X. 21:03:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:10:45 -!- Elronnd has quit (*.net *.split). 21:10:45 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 21:10:54 -!- fizzie has joined. 21:14:01 -!- earenndil has joined. 21:15:32 -!- earenndil has changed nick to Elronnd. 21:25:20 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:32:38 -!- vodkode has joined. 21:35:29 -!- augur has joined. 21:57:08 Do you like my idea of "HTCLS"? (Like ARIA, it would also be a set of HTML attribute with their own prefixes, although they have different purposes and meanings from ARIA. However, it can be combined with ARIA and other stuff too.) 22:10:04 -!- AlexR42 has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:15:28 <\oren\> you don't need a cable thruough the earth if we can do it with a neutrino beam 22:27:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:31:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:43:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:54:02 -!- augur has joined. 22:56:29 @metar EGLL 22:56:30 EGLL 072250Z 22019G29KT 9999 -SHRA FEW006CB BKN015 08/07 Q0985 RESHGR RESHRA RERA TEMPO 4800 RA BKN010 22:56:46 I... guess they want to delete an article they wrote? <-- maybe the thesis didn't pass 22:56:56 oerjan: No, it's listed as successfully defended. 22:56:59 Also: RESHGR RESHRA RERA. 22:57:01 huh. 22:57:05 wat 22:57:16 The metar. 22:57:22 @metar ENVA 22:57:22 ENVA 072250Z 25007KT 220V280 9999 FEW045 03/02 Q0977 RMK WIND 670FT 23010KT 22:57:32 today we have vicious ice 22:57:35 "WIND", what's that supposed to mean. 22:57:39 (it got my knee) 22:58:02 so shall we delete it? 22:58:25 I guess? I don't know what the common practice is. 22:58:46 (my initial predisposition is "yes", unless the language is particularly interesting. it's a BF derivative after all. 22:58:49 ) 22:59:07 fizzie: well i've deleted by author request before, as has ais523. 22:59:25 very well, i'm going ahead. 22:59:37 Sounds reasonable. And no, I don't think it's any kind of crazy-notable. 22:59:40 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[CBF (Cleverer Brainfuck)]]": Author request: content before blanking was: "{{delete| reason }} {{db-g7}} {{db-g7}}==Introduction== Programming language '''CBF''' was developed by Marcel Fiala, student of FIT BUT. This project started as procrastination, but turned out to be solid base for author..." 23:00:31 Since you're at it... https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck#Related_languages "LecRAM" points to a redirect to "CBR (Cleverer Brainfuck) 23:00:33 hm interesting, it showed the content of the revision i was looking at, not the blanked one. 23:00:46 Which is a redirect to CBF, which you just deleted. 23:00:49 fizzie: i have that in another tab, as i got a warning from the delete button. 23:01:00 Handy. 23:01:13 MediaWiki is smart! 23:01:42 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[LecRAM]]": Broken redirect: content was: "#REDIRECT [[CBR (Cleverer Brainfuck)]]" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/SEnergy|SEnergy]]") 23:01:48 It's all thanks to the delete button 23:02:25 [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46369&oldid=46359 * Oerjan * (-13) Going whole hog 23:02:58 [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46370&oldid=46317 * Oerjan * (-138) *Poof* 23:04:34 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Fizzie * deleted "[[CBR (Cleverer Brainfuck)]]": Broken redirect: content was: "#REDIRECT [[CBF (Cleverer Brainfuck)]]" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Esowiki201529A|Esowiki201529A]]") 23:04:38 One more for the road. 23:04:45 I WAS GETTING TO THAT 23:04:52 TOO SLOW 23:05:56 [wiki] [[Brainfuck Sharp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46371&oldid=44836 * Oerjan * (-30) no such link *MWAHAHAHA* 23:07:30 just what we need... an editor war 23:07:39 Hmm. We have 291 orphaned pages, claims Special:LonelyPages. Is that altogether right? 23:07:45 I guess it doesn't count categories. 23:08:22 under that assumption it's plausible 23:10:03 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FLIGHT CHICKEN). 23:10:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:10:57 Some of these are not categorized, though. 23:11:14 After clicking at maybe five, two were "actual languages" (FSVO) that seem to be entirely orphan. 23:11:19 * oerjan checks the language list for mis-sorting and broken links 23:11:24 found none 23:12:27 i may not be able to keep up with the wiki, but at least i can keep things in order 23:14:50 aejnor is our hero! 23:16:33 > unwords . map sort . words $ "i refrained from sorting the other words as well" 23:16:35 "i adeefinrr fmor ginorst eht ehort dorsw as ellw" 23:16:56 and that was probably a good thing :) 23:20:36 i guess that particular sentence might have been readable 23:20:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:21:05 yes, maybe 23:21:48 `learn Ginorst is eht aillpr fo dgoo iikw aaeegmmnnt. 23:22:00 Learned 'ginorst': Ginorst is eht aillpr fo dgoo iikw aaeegmmnnt. 23:22:17 > unwords . map sort . words $ "common and short words help a lot ( not tremendously )" 23:22:19 "cmmnoo adn horst dorsw ehlp a lot ( not deelmnorstuy )" 23:22:36 hah. "horst" doesn't work at all. 23:23:06 i don't get aillpr 23:23:15 pillar 23:23:26 -!- p34k has quit. 23:23:32 **AAAAHHHMW 23:23:33 i have no clue what that means 23:23:47 that may be the problem 23:23:56 free speech is a pillar of democracy 23:25:07 looked it up, makes sense 23:25:53 > let f (c : r) = c : g (reverse r); g (c : r) = reverse (c : (reverse . sort $ r)); g [] = [] in unwords . map f . words $ "on the other hand, sorting only the insides of words is perfectly readable, as usual" 23:25:55 "on the oehtr hadn, sinortg olny the ideinss of wdors is pceeflrty raabdeel,... 23:26:07 Well, maybe pceeflrty is a bit too strong a word here. 23:26:36 -!- augur has joined. 23:26:38 I was going to object indeed. 23:27:08 There's the "skyline" theory for the middle part. And again, words shouldn't be too long. 23:27:26 (Also I got it a bit wrong with respect to punctuation that's attached to a word.) 23:27:52 yeah, i hate these people saying the order of letters don't matter because of one single text example that is crappy 23:28:13 `addquote "on the oehtr hadn, sinortg olny the ideinss of wdors is pceeflrty raabdeel,... Well, maybe pceeflrty is a bit too strong a word here. 23:28:18 > sort "oh well it could be worse" 23:28:18 1265) "on the oehtr hadn, sinortg olny the ideinss of wdors is pceeflrty raabdeel,... Well, maybe pceeflrty is a bit too strong a word here. 23:28:19 " bcdeeehilllooorstuww" 23:28:38 `words --finnish 10 23:28:43 löytämästorista horstuvaltaneva teorgani luonivisevin käytyvimme temmenenne lohkerampanasi tuntiinisimpinänsä hutevälleen mainassammassa 23:29:04 `words --german 10 23:29:08 maricklumberen dasungs ster inters einlichkeitplastis botersatione kriederussena beppe hauployanitunt irrestütze 23:29:33 Einlichkeitplastis sounds quite believable. 23:29:41 well, no 23:29:49 Indeed. Meaningless, but pretty plausible. 23:30:00 is is pretty unpopular as suffix for nouns 23:30:06 myname: come on, reinlichkeitsfimmel exists! 23:30:15 it is :) 23:30:18 `words --german 10 23:30:20 hinsmation punktionsbehand vermöglichs westandeformation analbesich morpolyphulz bögeneichtsfessenstisch verlandric reprädetes erdasjahrenschirnlei 23:30:25 except for things like diseases or the like 23:30:40 "bögeneichtsfessenstisch" is a good one. 23:30:42 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:31:06 i like westandeformation 23:31:52 so is there a list of languages that `words supports? 23:31:56 `words 23:32:00 plunarwing 23:32:11 `words --help 23:32:14 Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset 23:33:20 `words -l 23:33:21 valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M 23:33:47 `words --german-medical 10 23:33:48 mukopempfnekräfte leukämischacharisch atologie resien protisches mulinsäuresens peräume hypotrologisch röntgenenalgie diffusiereudoall 23:33:57 `words --ogerman 10 23:33:58 bildunstum konträhnt gefahrei durchaltern megesch motokaltung getriebsjagdmauen aufzufunkt elegere unisblätzent 23:34:11 what's the difference 23:34:40 `words --eng-fiction 10 23:34:45 comme que corr exel ascenta mic monotie nett cada coff 23:34:54 odd. 23:35:11 fictional english is a lot more concise 23:35:17 `words --esolangs 10 23:35:19 rpos aura fooblecogscript vrejvax hell fullmachine thubi liorse noobare anoilog 23:35:22 oerjan: I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_orthography_reform_of_1996 is the difference. 23:35:29 ah. 23:35:42 (Assuming it's the same naming convention as Debian ispell packages.) 23:36:02 `cat bin/words 23:36:03 ​#!/usr/bin/perl \ use strict; use warnings; \ use v5.10; \ use open qw( :encoding(UTF-8) :std); \ use File::Basename 'dirname'; \ use Storable 'retrieve'; \ use List::Util qw(sum min); \ use Getopt::Long qw(:config gnu_getopt); \ BEGIN { \ eval { \ require Math::Random::MT::Perl; Math::Random::MT::Perl->import('rand'); \ }; \ #wa 23:36:30 `` ls share/*ord* 23:36:31 share/dict-words \ \ share/WordData: \ Brazilian \ Bulgarian \ CanadianEnglishInsane \ Catalan \ Eng1M \ EngAll \ EngFiction \ EngGb \ EngUs \ Esolangs \ Finnish \ French \ Gaelic \ German \ GermanMedical \ Hebrew \ Irish \ Italian \ Manx \ Norwegian \ Ogerman \ Polish \ Portuguese \ Russian \ Spanish \ Swedish 23:36:52 wtf germanmedical 23:37:03 `head share/WordData/Eng1M 23:37:04 pst012345678.............e....n....a.... ....d....m....s....'....ss6........e....u....a....t...rb.............eW...........n....a..........rt.......... ....s....y...........c...........k....'...........o..........t....quy........щ....т....н....тоя. 23:37:27 hmph no readable header 23:37:28 `words --german-medical 10 23:37:29 equenzblätte tochichten kards nebendemen zonswundes oxativ axilocandler abdomeratische periopationens inhibierendem 23:37:31 `? pst0 23:37:33 pst0? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:37:34 Do you like this? http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/htcls 23:37:42 these are great 23:37:54 Package: wgerman-medical (20160103-1): "This package provides the file /usr/share/dict/german-medical containing a list of German medical words." 23:38:34 how does it do that? rnn or the like? 23:38:50 Character trigrams or 4-grams, I forget which. 23:38:59 Nothing fancier than that. 23:39:29 Plus some futzing for the word length modeling, I think. 23:42:57 I've used fungot's system for doing the same, but the Funge code isn't capable of bunching the letters together, there's a hardcoded space between tokens (with some special handling for punctuation). 23:42:58 fizzie: i'm just not too well. why? because advanced ircbots will need it 23:43:07 fungot: I'm sorry to hear that. 23:43:07 fizzie: but i might send the gauche guys a mail with my name in the alist, right? it would be 23:43:24 fungot: Yeah, I think that's fine. 23:43:25 fizzie: way to miss the bus because of that: 23:45:36 (The WordData/* files are Perl's "Storable" encoding.) 23:54:11 -!- gde33 has joined.